legislative Aseemblg. - Parliament of Western Australia

[10 DFCEIEDra, 1936.1

legislative Aseemblg.Th,,r.,day. lOth December, 19860.

Questions :Child Welflare, increased allowance tomothers ............................ 2613

Raee workes. and Chistmas................2613Btills :Distress for Enta Abolition, report, 3i.... 2613

Qeralaton Health Authority axn, Counoirsamendhment..........................2614

Aborigines Act Amuendment, Corn, report, 3R. -2614Financial Emergency Tax (No. 3), returned 2626bMortgagees' Rights Restriction Act Continuanc,

returned.. .................... 2625Northanm Municipal validation, returned -. 262aRoad Closur, retnrned .................... 2625Reserves, retuned .. .. ... .. .. 2625Dairy Products Marketing Rtegulation Amend-

ment, Council's amnendmsent .. .. 2625Federal Aid Roads (New Agreeneent, Authorisa-

tion), returne........... .......... 2635Financial Emergency Tax Assessmeent Act Amend-

ment 0'._ 2), 1a., 2ax...................2436Ipurebsiers' Protection Act Amendment, Council's

amendmaents....................2636State Transport Co-ordnaio Act Amndment

(No. 3), 2a., defected ................... 2636Appropriaton, returned.............2641Lotteries (Con troi) Act Ansendmsnt, Concils

mesage .......................... 2642Agricultural Bank Act Amendment (No. 2), 2R.,

debate adjouncd....................2642Financial lEnorgeney Tax Assessment Act Amend-

ment (No. 2), 2.., etc.................2642Distres foer Rent Abolition, Council's .aed-

ments..............................26-42tate Transport Co-ordinatiJon Act Amendment

(No. 2.' Ft eea.................2643Financial Eme!rgency- Tax Assessment Act Amend-ment, (No. 2). retuined................2640

Petroleum, Council's message---------------2649Pearling Crews Accident Assierane Fend,

Council's message, request for conference -... 2640Trade Descriptions end False Advertisements,

Council's maessage.....................2650Distisas for Rent Abolition, council's message -... 2650Penrding Crows Accident Assurance Fund,

Council's further message---------------2650Aborigines Act Auaendeuent. Council's msange ... 2650Trade Descriptions ad False, Adlertisnements,

Counoil's further message---------------2651Aborigines Act Amendment, Ococil's farther

miessage ............................. 2651Penning Crews Accident Assurance Fund, Con-

ference Managers' report,...............2051Aborigines Act Anendeent. Conference Managers'

report------------------------2651Trade Description and False Advertisements,

Conference Managers* report .. 2-13Resolution : Betting Control nil,, to inquire by Joint,

Select Conjintlee............... ... 2635Abdication of ing Edward Vitt., Messae from, the

seeretary of state for the Dominicn -. 2654Adjournment: Close of session, complimentary re-

maks..............................2654Adjournment, siechdi..........................2655

The Speaker took the Chair at 7.30 p.m.,aind read p~rayers.

QUESTION-CHILD WELFARE.

Increasqed Atllowvance to Mothers.

Mr. DONEY asked the Minister for Emu-ploylnent: 1, In view of the improved finan-cial administration of the Child WelfareDepartment, will lie state-(a) whether theGoverinent will give consideration to anlincrease from the present 9s. to 12s. 6d., Or-

15s. per week for tmothers who are in receiptof monetary assistance fromn the departmentsoil who care for their own children: (bi)

what is the net amount remaining for thepurchase of necessaries in the case of fami-lies with one, two, or three children afterreasonable average allowance has been de-ducted for rent or, alternatively, for an in-stalment on purchase of home? 2, if thefigures shown in reply to (b) are below thesustenance rate of 7s. per week, will he giveearly consideration to the increased assist-ance to mothers sought in (a) 1

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENTreplied: 1, (a), The question of raising theweekly allowance for the families men-tioned was under consideration recently.The makting of a decision has beent post-poned. (b), It is not possible to state thenet amount remaining on the basis set outin the question. It is the general policy toallow for rent. Where members of thefamily are earning income, fares incurredby thema are also allowable. 2, When theSniancial position improves sufficiently con-sideration will -be given along the lines sug-gested.

QUESTION-RELIEF WORKERS ANDCHRISTMAS.

Mr. SLEEMVAN (without notice) askedthe Minister for Employment: Is he awarethat workers on relief jobs who wvere pro-mnised an extra week for Christmas have nowbeen notified that the,' are not to get theextra week, and that any extra time theyhave got in is to be taken away from the;;and, if so, wvill he see that this proposal isnot carried out? Further, can he informthe House how and when the amount ofZ10,000 granted by the Federal Govern-snent is to be distributed?

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENTreplied: So far as I know, no promise wasgiven that extra time would be allowed toany section of men. Where men haveworked extra time, adjustments will prob-ably be made. Just how and when, thos~eadj ustments will lie made I ant not in atposition to state at the moment. Regardingthe grant of £10,000 by the Commonwealthfor distribution as Christmas cheer nmngthe unemployed of this State, the questionof the basis of its distribution is now underconsideration.

BILL-DISTRESS FOR RENTABOLITION.

Report of Committee adopted.

614[ASSEMBLY.]

Third R~eadinrg.Bill read .a third tiime. and transmitted to

the Council.

EILL-GERADTON HEALTHAUTHORITY LOAN.

Council's A mevdmeipt.

Amendment made by the Council nowconsidered.

In Connmitttec.Mr. Sleenian in the Chair; the 'Minister

for Health ini charge of the Bill.

Clause 4. Insert after the word "deben-tures," in line 42, the words "or the rights,powers, authorities, benefits, and remediesof any other person."7

The MINISTER FOR. HEALTH: I haveno objection to the amnendhment. The CrownLaw Department inform me that the Billdoes protect debenture-holders. I move-

That the amendment be agreed to.

Question put and passed; the Council'samendment agreed to.

Resolution reported, the report adopted,and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.

BILL-ABORIGINES ACTAMENJDMENT.

In Committee.

Resumed from the previous day; Mr.Sleeman in the Chair, the Minister for Agri-culture in charge of the Bill.

Clause 13-Amendment of Section 17 ofthe principal Act (partly considered):

Hion. C. G. LATHAM: The Act providesthat half-castes shall be under the control ofthe department until they reach the age of16 years. In my opinion they should notremain wards of the State after attainingthat age, but should be left to fend for them-selves. I move an amendment-

That in paragraph (b9 the words "twenty-one," line 4, 'be struck out, and "sxer in-serted in lieu.

Amendment put and passed.

Air. WATTS: I move an amendment-That paragraph (c) be struck out.

The object of the amendment is that no per-mit shall be required for the employment of

anative under an engagement which is notthat of master and servant. Section 17 of

the Act provides -that it shall not be lawfulto employ natives except under permit, orpermit and agreement. It has always beenjcontended-rightly, in my opinion-thatcontraots such as I referred to on the secondr-eading, clearing or fencing contracts, whichmight be elassed as piece work in some in-stances, should not come within the scope ofthe lprovision. Contracts for clearing orf encing are frequently let by fnners andothers at so much per acre or per chain. Inmy opmnion, Section 17 should not extend tosuch wvork. On one occasion I discussed thesubject with the Chief Protector, who con-tended that such work was included in Sec-tion 17. Obviously, the passing of this para-graph would make its inclusion perfectlycertain. There should 'be no need for a per-mit in the ease of people employed on a con-tract where they are left to do the worklargely ini their own time and in their ownWar.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The hion. member is not acting in the bestinterests of the natives by persisting in theamendment. The matter is not of muchmoment as regards small contracts or theemployment of natives at daily or weeklywork; hut in the interests of the natives itis highly essential that they should be pro-tected; and whites should also be protectedby the issue of permits for such work as theclaiuse is intended to cover, It often occursthat a contract is let, and that satisfactionis g-iven to neither the employer nor theemployee. The department desire that acertain control be given over the haphazardmethods now in vogue.

7Mr. Doney: In what sense is there anyprotection for the employer?

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The employer may make a verbal arrange-ment with the native, thinking that the workway be done cheaply, and sometimes thework is not done at all. The natives andtheir relatives may sit down on the job, andvex-v little satisfaction results to either party.It is in the best interests of the nativ-es thatpermits should he required for such work.

Hon. P. D. FERGUSON: No goodpurpose c-an be served either in theinterests of the natives and half-castes orthe agriculturist emlploying them, by corn-palling him to go to the trouble of securinga permit. I would say in direct oppositionto what the Minister has stated that in thedistrict w ith which I an: acquainted, whena permit has been given, no further interest

2614

[10 DlECEMRn, .1936.] 2615

is taken by the department in the aboriginalor half-caste. Onl the Midland line, thereare a liUmlber of half-castes and a fair per-,ecutage of alborigines, and quite a numlberof half-castes particularly do a lot of conl-tract work: not only work mentioned by themember for lKatanning, but road work, andcleating. H-alf-castes from the Moore Riversettlement, the nativ'e camip iii the vicinity of\Valebing and New Norcia, (10 a lot of workfor farmers in that locality, and there is nolikelihood of ally farmer putting it over thehalf-castes. They are wide-awake and have,as much inltelligem ie as the majority ofwvhite peron~s. I havle had sonc experience.of them mnysel f and venture the op~iflion thatno one who wanted to have ally work doneat a lower rate, would meet with success be-cause the half-castes are awake to the posi-tion and know the exact value of the workbetter than most contractors know it.* Alot of the white Contractors are southernEuropeans and do not know as much aboutthe value of the work as do the half-castes.While there is sonic virtue in having to geta permit for a ion who goes on day work,there is 'to necessity for a permit being-issued in conlnection with contract work.

Mr. WATTS: I fail to see how this para-graph will give say protection to the emt-ployer in the direction partly indicated bythe Minister. The Protector, in issuing thepermit. would hardly he likely accurately toestimate what sort of work a native mightdo in connection with a contract he mighttake onl. Onl the other hand, I believe theretention of tile paragraph is likely to mili-tate against the employment of natives. Anyamendmients I have sought have been in theinterests of giving these people an oppor-tunity, wherever possible, to become self-supporting without unnecessary interference.While I anm prepared to admit that inter-ference in some directions is necessary,and while, where the actual relationship ofmaster and servant exists, interference is re-quisite, I do not think this provision isrequired either for the benefit of the contrac-tor or of the native.

Amendment put and passed; the clause,as amended, agreed to.

Clause 14-Amendment of Section 18 ofthe principal Act:

Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment-That after " amended," in line 1, the follow-

ing words be added-" (a) by adding after theword 'protector' wherever it occurs in the sec-tion the words 'or inspector ' and (b)"2

This will be a further amendment to Section18 of the Act, which provides that permitsshall be g-ranted or refused by protectors.As we have adopted the proposal for theaippoinitment of inpctr, I think thesepeople, who will no doubt be satisfactoryand fit persons for the positions they wvillhtold, and will be just as likely as the pro-tector to be in contact with the people con-cerned, should also he able to issue permitswhenever required. There might be timeswhen they would be more accessible.

Amiendmat-it put and passed.

Mr. COVERLEY: I move an amendment:That after 1 proviOa" in line 2, the words

"and paragraph"' be inserted.


Mr. COVERLEY: I move an amendment:That after ''the,'' in line 4, the words 9'e

fusal to grant, or by a'' be inserted.Amendment put and passed.

Mr. COVERLEY: I move anl amendment:That the following paragraph bhe added at

the end of the clause:-' Por the purposes ofthis proviso an applicatioa for a permit shallbe deemted to have been refused unless it isgranted within three months after the timewhen application is made for the( permit tothe Commissioner."

The clause is a new one. It provides theright of appeal by any aggrieved employerof labour; that is, a person who employsnative labour under the permit system. Theclause provides that the department maymake regulations to govern the appeal. Iwas somewhat concerned about inserting theright of appeal to be conducted within aspecified time. For that reason I have hadthis amendment drafted to prevent tiny holdup) of a permit. This will apply practicallyto the northern portion of the State only.That is the only portion of Western Aus-tralia where aborigines are employed uinderthis permit system. The Royal Comnmis-sioner recommended that the employershould have the right of appeal, andthe department accepted that principleby drafting this clause: but the word-ing of the clause did not satisfy mydesire to save time, and prevent dfepart-mental officials from holding up the right ofappeal, say, for over three months.


Clause 15-agreed to.

2616 [ASSEMBLY.]


Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment-That after '9' protector'' in line 4 the words

"or~ inspector'' be inserted.


Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I move an amend-mient

That ' tiventy-one'' in line 9 lbe struck outand ''sixteen"~ inserted in lie~ll

Amendment put -and passed; the clause,as amended, agreed to.


Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I move an amend-in nt-

That iii line 2 of proposed Subsection (3)''twenty-one'' be struck out and 46ite1inserted in lieu.

This is consequential on the precedingamendment.


Clauses 18 to 20-agreed to.

Clause 21 Insertion of new sections:.Mr. WATTS: I move an amendmient-That after ''balance'' is line 9 of 'proposed

Subsection (2) the following be inserted:-'' (a) :between the widow or husband of thedeceased and/or the niext of kin, it' the samecor some of them can, -be ascertained, according tothe laws of the State, in accordance -with anudin the manner prescribed for the administrationof the estates of persons dying intestate by- the'Administration Act, 1903,' and (ib) if suchwidow, husband, and/or next of kin cannot besso ascertained.''1

The clause provides that in the absence ofa will the administration of the estateof any deceased or missing native,and all rights of property vested in thedeceased native shall vest in the Commis-sioner upon trust to pay the just debts ofthe deceased, and to distribute the balanceamongst those persons who may by regula-tion be -prescribed as the persons entitled tosucceed to the property of the deceased. Itseems to me that in cases where there are,according to the law of the State, next ofkin who can be ascertained, the ordinaryprovisions relating to the administration ofthe estates of deceased persons should apply.I have provided for cases where those nextof kin cannot be so ascertained, and in thoseeases I shall be satisfied if the distributiontakes place under such regulations as maybe prescribed. It seems to me that where

the next of kin can be found, thme widow andchildren should not be deprived of theestate. I believe that so far as is possiblewe should bring those people under the samekind of regulations that would apply to our-selves. The provisions of this clause donot apply to those natives exempted fromthe provisions of this Act. But I submitthat there will be natives who are not soexempt, even though they be quadroous, be-cause they may he classed as natives. Thereis no justification for the widow and childrenof a quadrooni, and less still the widow, andohijldren of a a octoroon, who can be lawfullyascertained being deprived of the deceased'sestate, If they cannot be ascertained by thelaws of the country, then there should besome regulation to provide for sucheventuality.

Air. Marshall : Have we laws that wvillapply in such ci reunjecs ?

Mr. WATTS: We have, and I want themto be applied.

Amendment put amid passed.

Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment--That after ''entitled'' in line 19 of proposed

Subsection (2) the words ''undler the regula-tions" ' le iniserted.T~his provides that a certificate under thehand of the Conmmissioner may be issued asconclusive evidence as to the person (or per-sons entitled to succeed to the estate. Ob-viously the certificate wvill not be required ifthey are entitled to succeed under the Ad-ministration Act, but it would be requiredin a case that wvould conic under the regula-tions that will be prescribed.

Amendment put and passed.Mr. WATTS: I move an amendmnet-That in line 3 of paragraph (b) of proposed

Section 33B the word ''indigent'' Ile struckout.

This provides that every holder of a permitto employ natives must contribute to amedical fund, and such fund shall be used to(defray the medical and hospital expensesand the maintenance of indigent natives whofall ill or become diseased or who suffer anyinjury or accident. The member for Pilbara,the other night, dealing with certain nativesin the North said that they are welcome toremain on a station so long as they behavethemselves. It seems to me the intention ofthe clause is that the funds shall not beallocated towards the relief of natives whoare employed by any station owner, butshould be applied to the maintenance of

[10 lECFz:urEn, 1936.) 2617

indigent natives. To explain what I have ininind I1 propose to insert after the word"accident" in line 5 of the same paragraphthe words "in the course of emiploymientunder any such permit." This fund, whichis going to be contributed to by the employ-cers, should be utilised foi- the benefit ofnatives employed by the employer.

Mr. COVEIILEY: I do not agree thatindigent natives should be excluded from thebenefit of the proposed fund. On severaloccasions in this House have 1. voiced the,Opinion that employers of native labourshould contribute something towards? the care.and upkeep of indig-ent native.,. The clause'was recommended by' the flor'al Commnis-sioner, and .1 think it is a very good one.'Under the parent Act the employer of nativelabour is called upon to care for the health-of any native that is injured or suffersfrom sicknes s. Many pastoralists in theNorth-West insure thir natives under theWorkers' Compensation Act, which coversenlv accidents occurring, in the course of-duty. I hople the amendment will not heagreed to. for if we exclude the word"indig-ent," we shall upset the purpose forwhich the Royval Commissioner recommnendedthis clause.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: It would be quiteall right if the Bill had heen provided fora particular purpose, as the hon. memberseems to think. The clause provides thatevery employer shall pay a contribution tothe medical fund. This f .und is 'to be used todefray the medical and hospital expenses ofindigent natives who may fall ill or lie thevictims of an accident. They, need not be inthe service of thffe station owner. It is in-cumbent on the employer to insure thenatives that he employs. The disposal of themedical fund is not for the benefit of anynatives that are insured, but is for the pur-pose of earing for indigent natives. UpNorth wvhen natives are employed on a sta-tion they bring in their families. The resultof this provision is that if any member ofthe family is injured or falls sick he willhave, the benefit of the fund.

Mr. Coverley: The obligation is on the de-partment to care for all of them.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: Under the Con-stitutiin we undertook to provide thenatives with food, clothing, etc.

Mr. WELSH: No one who is employingnatives will mind looking after those whobecome indigent, provided they are membersof the family of the natives who are ema-

ployed. Every enmployer should look afterhis own aborigines, but walkabout nativesshould not come upon the funds at all. Isupport the amendment.

Miss HOLMAN: The two paragraphsread together mean that the holder of a per-init shall pay' so much into a special fund.It will not matter to the permit-holder howmany' walkabout natives have to be providedfor. He will pjay no more into the fund be-cause the indigent natives may be in excessof the usual number. In my opinion indi-gent natives should 'be adequately lookedafter.

Mr. -MARSHALL: Members have a wvron2gconception of the meaning of these words.An employer nine either insure his nativesor May contribute to a fund which wouldhe used on behalf of the natives. If he in-surles them, hie is covered only' for the nativeshie employs. Another man may prefer topa , to thie fund a sum sufficient to covercases of injury or sickness amongst his ownnatives as well as amoingst the hangers-on.In iny view paragraph (.b) excludes anynatives who are emnploy' ed, and applies onlyto walkabout natives. The working nativeswill not be covered at all by the fund. Theclause is very badly drafted.

Mr. WATTS: The argument of the memn-ber for Murchison is quite correct. If anemployer does not wish to pay into the fund,he takes out a workers' compensation policy.Only in cases where there is no workers'compensation policy vil1 the employer cozi-'tribute to the fund. What the contributionwill be we do not know. There is nothing,to prevent the Commissioner from expend-ing all the funds upon indigent natives whoare not employed, and therefore being un-able to contribute towards the attention re-quired 'by natives who are employed but arenot insured. My amendment will mean thatthe fund will be used for the maintenanceof natives who are employed by the permit-bolder.


Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment-That at the end of paragraph (b) of proposed

Section 33B the words "'in the course of em-ployment under any such permit'" be inserted.

Amendment put and passed.Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment-That the', word "and"' at the end of Sub-

paragraph (i) of Paragraph 3 be struck out.If that amendment is carried I will move todelete subparagraph (2). The Commissioner

2618 [ASSEMBLY.]

should not he allowed to specify the placeto which injured or sick natives should besent. Possibly hie would exercise his author-ity reasonably, but it is better that we shouldgive him only the power we expect himi touse.

The MINISTER FOR. AGRICULTURE:In the sweet spirit of reasonableness thatthe member for Katanning suggests, I amwillinig to compromise. It may be that theclause mentioned in the Royal Commis-sioner's report, following upon his referencesto what obtains in the Northern Territory,would be better than the provision in theBill. The Royal Commissioner's proposalin paragraph (b) of the second clause of hissuggested conditions reads:-

As soon as is reasonably possible, providefree translport for the aboriginal and send himato the nearest or mnost accessible hospital.

Hon. C. G. Latham: That is in the Billnow.

The 11,INISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:'flit is so, but if we do not provide fortransport to the nearest hospital, it willhave to he a place that the protector mayindicate.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: The trouble isthat a protector, when he sees a sick native,may say, "This man needs a change of air,so you had 'better send him to Albany." Isuggest to the Minister that hie already haswhat he desires in the clause.

Amendment put and passed.Mr. WATTS: After hearing the Minister

and giving the matter further consideration,I move an amendment-

That Sub-paragraph (ii) be struck out.

Amen dment put and passed; the clause,as amended, agreed to.

Clause 22-Amendmnent of Section 34 ofthe principal Act:

Mir. COVERLEY: I move aa amend-

That in line 4 of paragraph (b) the words''and for the past maintenance of the child''be struck out.

I do not think there is any need for me toadd to what I said on this point during thesecond reading debate.

The MINISTjERi FOR AGRICULTURE:This provision has to be read in con-junction with the Act, and it will befound that this refers only to thecare of a child - when in a Governmentinstitution. There have been many in-

stances where the parent has been convictedand has paid maintenance for some time.He quickly ceases to do so, and the childultimately becomes the care of the State. Itis not a question, as the member for Kim-berley indicated in his second readingspeech, of paying- past maintenance over aperiod of years, but merely for months untilthe father is located. in those circumn-stances, it is only just that the parent shouldbe required to make that payment.

Hon, C. G. LATHAM: I support theamendment. I would agree withm the Minis-ter if the Act had operated for a longperiod. This will apply to whites, half-castes and others. Because the comimis-sioner made a claim against a father, thelatter might have to pay past mainten-ance for a period of 15 years! We knowcertain people are very generous to half-castes. I would not mind if this appliedonly to maintenance due for a few months,or until the father is found.

The Minister for Agriculture: That is allthat is required.

Hon. C. G. LATH-All: That is all verywell, but we know what will happen.


Clauses 23, 24-agreed to.

Clause 25-Repeal and re-enactment ofSection 42 of the principal Act:

Ho,,. P. fl. FERGUSON : 1 desire tom~ove an amendment. I protest against theproposal that no marriage between nativesshall be celebrated until notice has beengiven to the commissioner and his consentobtained. Provision is made for the comn-missioner to object to such marriages oncertain grounds. I am old fashionedenough to believe in the sanctity of mar-riage.

The Minister for Agriculture: That isold-fashioned!I

lion. P. D. FERGUSON; Unfortunatelyit is in these days. I know hundreds ofhalf-castes who believe in the sanctity ofmarriage, and I 'believe no restrictionshould he placed on their laudable desire.

Mr. Warner: It is dangerous to interferewith the marriage business.

Hon. P. D. FERGUSON: Undoubtedlyit is.

Hon. P. Collier: There is already enoughtrouble about that!

[10 DECEM:BER, 1936.] 2619

Hon. P. D. FERGUSON: But we are notallowed to make ally reference to thatmatter. I am prepared to admit that thereare cases respecting which there is everyjustification for Parliament to give theright to the commissioner to prevent mar-riages, but that does not apply in theSouth-West, where there are hundreds ofhalf-castes quite capable of deciding thismatter for themselves who would resent thecommissioner or anyone else interferingwith them.

Mr. Watts: If the hon. member intendsto move an amendment after paragraph(d), I wish to mRove an amendment to anearlier part of the clause.

Hon. P. D. FERGUSON: Then I shallnot move my amendment now.

Mr. WATTS: I move an amendment-That paragraph (d) of proposed Subsection

2 be struck out.Without touching on the viewvs expressed bythe member for Irwvin-Moore, I consider itinadvisable that tile commissioner shouldhave the right to object to a proposed mar-riage on the score that there may be "othercircumstances which render it advisable thatthe marriage should not take place." Itwould be a matter of the commissioner'sopinion only. I am in agreement with thethree grounds specified in paragraphs (a),(b) and (c), upon which specific objectionmay be taken to a proposed marriage, but Iconsider it inadvisable to have such a provi-sion as that included in paragraph (d).

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I hope members will appreciate the difficul-ties of administration in such matters. Theobject is not to hamper or hinder the mar-riage of half-castes, as was suggested, in theSouth-West. We must look further thanthe South-West and appreciate conditionsthat prevail elsewhere. The trouble does notarise in connection with, the recognised mis-sions because those authorities repeatedlyapply to the Chief Protector of Aboriginesfor his consent and comments relative toany proposed marriage between two parties.They know, as the Chief Protector knows,all the tribal laws obtaining in the district.The trouble that arises is in connection with,people on other than mission stations whomay desire boys and girls to bemarried- In some instances thatdesire is not altogether above board andthe reasons would not bear investigation.There are many instances where the so-

called marriages have been approved by theChinese cook on a station. He has foundthat somne of the kitchen lubras or half-caste assistants might be better married, sohe selects desirable young bucks from thecamip, assures them they are married, andsends them bush. From time to time, manypeople wvander through the back country,some of -whom as-c very undesirable. Some ofthem may, for purposes of their own, wish-to see old Then andl young girls married, and,in some instances, for their own protection.Instances arc known of old mnen applyingto mission stations for very young girls onthe score that they were married even beforethe girls were born. It will be. seen that itis essential that objections taken againstsuch matrriages shall be sustained. Where,as has been the case in miany instances,people who have had settlements tinder theircontrol desire to marry two natives, fromthe point, of v iew of their own welfare, quiteapart from questions of administration thatmay he involved, they should not have anysay wvhatever. There are many circumstancesover which the Commissioner should havecontrol in saying, perhaps, that it was notpossible for thoem people to have the privi-lege of marrying natives who mighit desireto become united.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: We have alreadyprovided that no marriage~ shall take placewith a female aboriginal without the per&-mission of the Commissioner.

Mr. Watts: That has been' repealed.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: Does the Minister

really think we are going to enforce lawslike this in the North I What is the alterna-tive to these people getting married? Thereis no alternative except that it will pennit atgrreat deal of pr-omiscuity to go on. TheCommissioner might get into touch withthose people who are licensed to performniarnages.

The Minister for Agriculture: They corn-niunicate with him now.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: He can issue in-structions to them, and advise them. Sup-pose an old man wants to marry a younggirl q

M1r. Marshall: We all want to do that.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: That seems to he

a natural proceeding with the natives; andif the Commissioner says "No," and the localpeople say "No," what is the alternative? Iprefer that the position be left entirely as itis, the Commissioner to control the female

2620 [ASSEMBLY.1

side. Wily worry about the other side? Ofcourse, if we can Christianise the half-castes, let us do so, but it must be a slowprocess. There are alway' s dra-net clauseslike this in legislation that is being framned,and they are suggestive of this--"Tn case wehave forgotten something, let us put thisin.1

Amendment put and p)fased.Hon. P. D. FERGUSON: I move an

aimendment-That after paragraphl (e) the following pro-

viso be added -'Provided thiat any native whois aggrieved oa account of any objection bythe Gonminiasionet- under this section may appealto a magistrate in the magisterial district inwhich lie resides, and such appeal shall be iiiaccordance with the regulations which miay-. lime-scribe the tinie for appealing and the proec-dlure to bie followed."1IT hat will give the intelligent, civilised hialf-caste who may ie aggrieved at the decisionof the Comumissioner the right of appeal toa magistrate.

Amendment pitt and ipassed; the clause, asamended, a-zreed to.

Clause 26-Amendmnent of Section 43 ofthe principal Act:

Mr. COVERLEY: This is a penaltYclause, and] it deals with offences againstnatives. When the Bill was introduced iiianother place, the penalty p~rovidcd was notless than £25, and not less than six months*imprisonment. The term of imprisonment,however, was disallowed by' another place,and now% it is set out that a magistrate shallriot be able to discriminate or impose aminimum penalty for a first offence, lbut thathe may use his own discretion -,as to whatterm of imprisonment he may hand out fora particular offence. To bring the clauseinto conformity with the fine and the termof gaol, I propose to strike out the wsords"less than £25 nor." That will leave it tothe discretion of the magistrate to imposewhat fine he thinks fit on any person chargedwith having committed an offence under thisclause. I move am amendment-

That in line 7 of paragraph (b,) the words''less than £25 nor'' be struck out.

Hon. C- G. LATHAM~: I know it is going,to he said, in connection with the offence inquestion, that we arc condoninig it. T wantthe Comnmittee to realise that if we fix aminimuni penalty and we make that mini-inna high, there is always the inducementfor a magistrate who has a slight doubtabout the matter to dismiss the ease. If,however, he were allowed to use his disere-

tiou, he might impose a9 fine of perhapis £5;so I agree with the nmember for Iimberley.It is because of the comnmission of thisoffence that we fid so many half-castesalbout.

The Minister for Agriculture: If you sup-port the amendment, you will mnake the com-mission of the offence easier.

Hon. C. 0. LATHIAM: Whant I ant cer-tain of is that if the lion. memnber were onthe bench and lie were not quite sure, ratherthan inflict a heavy penalty he would givethe aceused person the benefit of the doubt.

The Minister for Agriculture: Well, re-du1ce the minimumn.

Hon. C. G. LATfl-AM: I do not like ainycuinum. If a mnagistrate is worth any-thing at all, w'e should leave it to him.

The 'MfNISTER FOR AGIRICULTURE:It is essential thait there should be a mini-mutm fine. This p~enalty is really a deterrentfor the grievous harmi being done to ournative race.

Hon. C. 6i. Latham: J do not think the £25is considered when the offence is being coum-initted.

rho 1-UNYISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Perhaps not, but the £25 would be a severedeterrent to most people who wandered inthis way. I do not want it to be thoughtthat I wish to condone the offence. Rather(10 I desire to subdue it.

'Mr. WATTS: I have had some cperienceof police courts, and I find that where thereis a nmnuni penalty, it does act as a defin'-ite deterrent to the commission of offenices.

Hon. C. 0-. Latham: How will they knowwhat the penalty is?

Mr. WATTS: -In thie same war, thatpeople know what the minimium penalty isfor supplying liquor to aborigines.

Hon. C. G. Lath am: I guaran tee that not.two mien iii this Chamber know what that is.

Mr. "WATTS: Perhaps not;. because theydo not supply liquor to aborigines. It iswell known ]in the country, however, that theminimium penalty for this offence is £20, andthat the minimium acts as a deterrent in this.as it does in many other respects. WhilstI do not suppose that a minimum penalty of£E25 will prevent offences being- committedagainst natives, it will be likely to minimisethose offenees. If there are exceptional cir-cumstances, and if the magistrate is ofopinion that the minimum penalty is likelyto be excessive, lie will be entitled to makea recommendation for a reduction of it, andthat recommendation will he given effect toD.


2620

[10 IIECruil, 1936.]

Hon. C. G. IATHAMA: I mlove anl amend-ment

That in Sulbelause (2) the wordis ''Shall berenumbered as subsection three" be struck outand tile words ''is herebly deleted'' inserted inlieu.The provision is that when any offence suchas those we have been discussing is core-nutted no, complaint shall be laid without theauthority of the comimissioner. That is ex-traordinary. We know that such offenesare being committed, and yet nopolice officer mnay' act without the con-sent of the conmnissioner. Surely thep~olice should have a right to take action im-mnediately they know, of an offence. Thecommissioner might be a~ thousand milesaway. When the provision was passed in1911 not a wvord was offered in justificationof it. If the measure is to be effective thatpower miust be deleted.



Clause 28-Prohibition of natives onpromises licensed for sale of liquor:

Mr. SEWARD: I move an amendment-That in line 5 of the proposed new, subsection

(1) the word ''enter'' be struck out.There are various entrances to a hotel, andto expect a publican to watch them and pre-vent a native from entering would be placingtoo much responsibility upon him. It isquite right that the responsibility should heplaced upon the native, as is provided in theproposed new Subsection 2.

Amendment put and passed'; the clause,as amended, agreed to.

Clause 29--agreed to.

Clause .30-Amendmvent of Section 59A:Hon. C. G4. LATHAM,%: The clause pro-

vides that no adission of guilt shall besought or obtained fromn any native sus-pected of an offence punishable by deathor imprisonment in the first instance exceptwith the consent of a protector who is nota police officer. Any white person accusedof all offence punishable by death is notpermitted to p)lead guilty, and the nativeshould not he disadvantaged as comparedwith the white person. I move an amend-mert-

That the words ''except with the consent ofa protector who is not a poliee offier''I be struckout.

Amendment put and passed; the clause,as amended, areed to.

Clause .31-Insertion of new sections:%fMr. WATTS: The proposed new Section

50D deals with the establishment of nativecourts, and is one of the most iniporta~tclauses in the Bill. It provides that theGovernment may establish a court for thetrial of any offee committed by a nativeagainst another native. This is a departurefrom the practice previously observed whendealing with natives. The Royal Comnmis-sioner recommended a new type of court todeal with native offences, but nowhere do Ifind in his recommendation any suggestionthat it should be confined to offeuces by anative against a native. He intended thecourt to deal with offences by natives againstother persons whosoever they might be: Toconsuimnate the recommendation of theRoyal Commission I move an amendment-

That the words ''against another native'"be struck ont.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:T do not think the lion, member under-stands the clause. The difficulty in the pasthas bjeen dint the native has been tried underthe wvhite man's law. The clause is de-signed to deal with offences 'between natives.In other countries native courts have beenconstituted so that inquiry could be madeto ascertain whether the matter had merelyarisen out of a tribal rite or custom orwhether some other offence had been com-mitted. The provision has been included togive effect to the recommendation of theRtoya l Commissioner. If a native is mur-dered by another native, all the trappingsand officials of the Supreme Court have tohie transported perhaps thousands of milesto hear the evidence, though the native mighthave been killed duringr the observance ofa. tribal custom. The provision is intendedto give the native a fair deal. A court'might be 500 miles from communication.That court may be held on a mission station,or perhaps on a pastoral holding. The Comn-mnissioner may be an officer of the law, ormay be a protector of aborigines; but underthe clause he has the power to be constituteda Comnmissioner, and to have with him oneconversant with tribal rites. The clause isdesigned particularly to obviate what hasp-lpeni--tbe trial of natives under white man'slaw.

Mr. WATTS: I understand the clause per-fectly well. In that connection I fullyunderstand the observations made by theMinister. I was, however, expressing theview tbat we should not limit the clause to

2622 ASSE36LY.]

trials of offences by natives against othernatives, but should extend it to trials foroffences eoniditted by natives against any-one else. A habit has grown up of appoint-ing- Royal Commissioners to miake exhaustiveinquiries, to travel all over the country, andto arrive at certain definite conclusions,-which are subsequently ignored. It wiasfrom that aspect I moved the amendment.The Royal Commissioner, Air, Moseley, dealtwith the sulbjeet as follows-

Trial of aboriginal off enders.-Altliough thismatter has recently been the cauise of a gooddeal of commetp thle system of bringing allaboriginal offenders before our ordinary courtsof justice, no matter the nature of the charge,has been the subject of judicial criticism formany years; but the system has continued.Perhaps it lhas continlued because authoritieshanve hesitated to interfere with a 'procedure inthe extreme fairness of which they feel somepride; perhaps because the matter has not lheendeemed af sufficient implortance to justify In.terferenee. As far as a great many natives areconceernedl, I see no reason win- there should beally change iii our present system. 'There aremany who bare tbeen born and brought uipin civilised communities who have little of thetribal instinct in thenm and who have, by reasonof their long association with. whites, quite aworking knowledge of the difference betweenright and wrong.

The only persons now natives are thosepeople who are neither quadroons nor ofless blood, and who have not lived in whiteconditions.

Why should they not be amnenable to ourlaws and, when offenees are alleged againstthem, 1)e tried by the courts set uip to admini-ister such laws?

I agree that they should he; but, gnerallyspeaking, they are not natives under theBill.But there is another class of native againstwhom our laws would seen) to operate unfairly-time bush native who commits what wider ourlwy would be a crime, but which is perfectlyin order according to his tribal customis--which,amount to his law. In anul, a case the wholeprocedure, from the moment of arrest, seen,.;inappropriate. In the case of a white personaccused of an offence, lie is, or perhaps I shouldsay should be, cautioned that hie need not, un-less he so desires, make any statement . . . Ointhe other Ib and, ia the case of a bush nativearristed on some charge arisisig out of tribaldisturbance, or for cattle killing --which seeniedup to a point to be one of the most frequentchiarges--evidence has on many occasions beengiven of the admissions of the accused person

I - The accused native and the witnesses arethen taken under escort to the nearest court-it may he 200 or more miles away-and lie isplaced] in the dock to answer the charge. Helasbrought no witnesses with him-his mental

equipment, even if lie understands what is goingoil, does not enable )him to think of that beforeleaving his country, and his protector-well, atthat moment the protector is a police constable,and of course his duty is to arrest the manand bring him to trial In thle event of -aconviction, and tme ease seemis sufficiently one-sided to justify one, the prisoner is Beat togaol. After his sentence has been served, liereturns to his country, not in any spirit ofhumility, but, on the contrary, feeling in everyway superior to others of his tribe who havenot been so fortunate . . What is requiredin any view is, firstly, a. different tribunal-oaethat will really enable the native to understandwhat is going on and the proceedings of whichcanL be listened to and understood by others Ofthe tribe; secondly, a dfifferent form Of Pell-alty . . . The form the tribunal should takerequires consideration. I -nan not favourablyinclined towards a court con stitu ted as sug-gested -by the Chief Protector, the personnelbeing, in my opinion, too cumibersome for effec-tive work. The proposal was that the courtshould comprise a resident magistrate as chair-mnan, the Chief Protector, or his nouinee, somneperson to be nominated byv thle Minister, and thehead amau of the tribe to which, thle accusedbelongedl.Some of those recommendations with regardto the con stituttiont of the court are to hefound in the clause, but on a more rea son-able basis. The Royal Conmnissioner hasbeen fairly definite in his report. Nativecases should be dealt with by a specially con-stituted court, no matter against whom theoffence has been coinmsitded. The RoyalCommnissioner makes no reservation as tocharges against others, thani natives. Itwould be a big step forward towards thesolution of the aborigines question if we hadsuch courts for those puirposes.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Every word read out by the hon. member issufficient justification for retaining the word-ing of the clause. Since it is not possibleunder present legal happenings to have anative's case properly' heard under whiteman's law, it is essential that these nativecourts should be constituted. I hope thehon. member will not press the amendment.

Mr. MARSHALL: The member for Kat-anning bas strainedf my loyalty almost to thebreaking point. Native law and British orAustralian law differ only by virtue ofstandards, or codes. Mainly it is the codesthat cause the trouble. Inl Western Ais-trals we have tribal laws and white manl'slaws. A sufficient penalty in the eyes ofBritish or Australian law, perhaps a fewmonths' imprisonment, would appear alto-gether too lenient in thle eyes of the nativelaw. In some respects the native moral code

2622

[10 flDEBE, 1936.] '2623

is much higher than our. Any breach ofthat code can, in native opinion, be punishedonly by death. The Royal Commissioner, inrecommending these courts, has no otherobjective than that they should be confinedto troubles arising out of the tribal characterand tribal beliefs. In the case of a nativetaking the life of a white man, or a whiteman taking the life of a native, the trialmust be held in our courts. I support theclause as it stands.

[Mlr. flegney took the Chair.]

Amendment put and negatived.Hon. N. KEENAN: In paragraph (b),

what is the reason for adding to a specialmagistrate a nominee of the Commissioner?Is there any reason for it! I understand thewhole scheme of the clause, and feel myselfvery much in accord with it; but the clausewould be much more likely to work well ifa special magistrate were appointed and hetook into consultation a head man of thetribe.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The object is to have an added safeguard, sothat someone who knows all that is to beknown of aboriginal affairs so far as Stateadministration is concerned shall be avail-able.

Hon. N. Keenan: But the special magis-trate will be picked for that purpose; he willnot be picked for incompetence.

The MINISTER FOR AGRI4CULTURE:But the special magistrate may on occasionbe the local policeman who happens to havelocked up the accused.

Hon. N. Keenan: Then why have him?The MINISTER FOR AGRICUJLTUJRE:

He may be the only one available, or theonly one acceptable to the person chargedwith the offence.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I move an amend-met-

That in paragrab (ce) "'may" be struckout and ''shall'' inserted in lieu.

Mr. COVERLEY: The amendment movedby the Leader of the Opposition is danger-ous. It might cause the court occasionallyto be prevented from functioning. Withdue respect to the Aborigines Departmentand the Minister in charge of the Hill, Iforesee occasions when the head man willnot be found.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: There is nothingto compel him to attend. The words are"shall call." It does not say the headman.

[92]

The Minister for Agriculture: There aremany headmen.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: What we are try-ing to get at is this: that where there is anoffence against the tribal code, there shouldbe an attemplt to ed-ucate rather than topunish the offender.


Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I move an amend-ment-

That after Subelause (4) of proposed newSecion 591), the following words be added:-''prodided that the wife of an accused nativeshall not be a compellable witness.

I do not see why wives should be corjipelledto give evidence against their husbands (mymore than our wives are.

Mr. Warner: Wife or wives?Hon. C. G. LATHAM: One includes the

other.Amendmient put and passed.

Mr. COVERLEY: I move an amend-nient-

That the following proviso 'be added to pro-posed new Section 59H1:-"Provided furtherthat no such permission shall be granted northof the 18th parallel of south latitude.'' -

This clause empowers the commissioner to'give a permit which will enable natives theright to carry poison. I do not object to thatin a general way because there are quite alot of scini-civilised natives in the Murchisonand North-West districts who actually docarry poisn for poisoning hawks, dingoesand other vermin, and likewise also in theagricultural areas, but in the district I havein mind it is an entirely different thing,There is a different class of native and ourexperience leads us to the conclusion that itwould he very bad for natives to be allowedto carry p~oison. Poison bait has been leftby natives on the stock routes to the detri-ment of donkeys, which are poisoned by thedozen through natives having the right tocarry strychnine for laying baits. Thisamendment will exclude that portion of theNorth-West north of the 18th parallel, 150to 200 miles south of Broomne.

Hon. C. G. Latham: The amendmenttakes your district out of it, but what aboutoursI

Air. COVERLEY: I do not think it wouldaffect your district.

Mr. Welsh: Where is this parallel?Mr. COVERLEY: Not in your electorate.Hon. C. G. LATHAM. We purport by

this clause to hand over authority to certain

2624 1[ASSEMBLY.].

persons, subject to the commissioner's per-mit, to handle poisons.

Mr. Coverley: It is done now.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: In this city I

defy any bon. member to go to any reput-able chemist and obtain poison without tak-ing a witness along who knows him andwithout sig-ning a bocok. Under this provi-sion, immediately a commissioner issues apermit, natives will be able to obtain poisonwithout further ado. The Bill when it be-comes an Act will override any other Act.We must not forget that. The word "sup-ply" used in the provision may mean give,sell or anything else, and without witnessesat all.

The Minister for Agriculture: This pro-vides that you cannot allow a native to usepoison unless you hold a permit.

Hon. C. G. LATHIAM: The demand to-day by the Pharmaceutical Society is thatwe should tighten up our laws in regard topoisons. I hope that if this is passed thecommissioner will be very sparing in theissue of these permits. What he should do0is to Issue a permit to an employer, if' hewants to, permitting him to hand over thepoison baits.

.The Minister for Agriculture: That iswhat it means.

.Hon. C. G. LATHAYM: No, it does not.It all depends on how it is interpreted. Ishould like to see the clause redrafted. Isee in it a grave danger. There is nothingto prevent bush natives poisoning wells onthe Canning stock route.

.Mr. WELSH: Very often it is advisableto send a native out with poison after dogsand foxes. Only a good native is chosenfor that work.

.Hon. C. G. Latham: You happen to bea wise man: others might not be so careful.

-Mr. WELSH: I think they are. Invari-ably the native will get his dog or fox. Thisdoes not provide that a native can get poisonftrm any person. The commissioner issuesa permit to the employer, enabling him tosupply the native with poison. The nativeis not allowed to keep the poison in his campafter he has returned, but has to hand overwhat is left to the employer. I do not thinkthere is any dainger in the provision. Themdember for Kimiberley says the natives maypoison the wells in his district, but in themore settled districts with which I am con-cerned it is expedient to give natives thepoison in order that they may go out afterdogs and foxes.


Clause 32-agreed to.Clause 33-agreed to.

Clause 34,-Arnoudmeat of Section 63 ofthe principal Act:

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I move an amendment-

That after ''account'' in line 5, the words''of the refusal by the Minister to grant suchcertificate, or'' be inserted.

That gives an opportunity for an appeal toa magistrate by any native who is aggrievedon account of the revocation by the Ministerof his certificate.

Amendment put and passed.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I move an amend-

ment-That after ''resides'' in line 7, the words

''the magistrate umay make such order regard-iag the issue or revocation of the certificamte asin his opinion the justice of the ease requires,and such order shall be given effect to by theMinister'' be inserted.

This provides that where a native feelsaggrieved on account of the revocation ofhis certificate, he may appeal and the niagis-tra-te shall make such order as he thinks fitand the Minister shall agree to give effect toit.

Amendment put and passed; the clause, asamended, agreed to.


New clause:Mr. WATTS: I move-That the following new clause be inserted to

stand as Clause 28:-'28. A new section isInserted after sectiou forty-four of the prin-cipal Act as folloivs:-44A. A native childshall not, without the written consent of theMinister, attend a Government elementary schoolwithin the meaning of the Education Act, 1928,in any district or locality where there is anative institution which is accessible and avail-able within a distance of five miles to suchchild for the purpose of schooling or educa-tion."

Originally I gave notice of this amendmentwithout the words "within a distance of fivemiles," but it was realised that it might bewrong to have no limitation on the dis9-tance, and so I have had those words in-serted. On the second reading I mentionedthat at Onowangerup there is a mission in-stitution which is a school, conducted, Iunderstand, by capable persons. There are43 half-castes or native children in the loca-lity, of whom 41 attended this mission school

110 DECEMBER, 10930.] 22

and two attend the State school. It is notdesired that any change in that conditionshould be permitted to take place. Thelocal authorities of the district have writtento me asking me to have inserted in theBill some clause such as the one I havemoved. It is not intended that suchchildren shall be deprived of the oppor-tunity to obtain education. It is, therefore,only where there is a native institution,such as a mission school, which is accessibleand within a distance of five miles, to suchchildren for the purpose of receiving educa-tion, that the proposed new clause -willapply.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I fear the hon. member has overlooked thefact that very many coloured children areperfectly clean and conform to white stand-ards, and are acceptable at State schools.In districts where there is a native schoolat which the native children may attend, thebon. member is going to deprive them ofthe opportunity to improve their conditionand generally uplift themselves. It is de-sirable that every opportunity should -beafforded and that those children should at-teud schools, wherever situated, if they con-form to white standards. I think the hon'mtember has not thoroughbly gone into thismatter.

Mr. WATTS; I have endeavonred so -faras is possible to prevent circumistances. arisingsuch as these that appear to distress theMinister. The position is that under theproposed clause the Minister will be en-titled to consent to such children attendimr-State schools if he thinks the circumstanceswarrant it. Secondly, such a child aS theMinister refers to, in all probability wouldnot be classed as a native at all, but wouldbe exempt from the provisions of the Bill.I can assure the Committee I have givengrave consideration to the matter, and it isbecause of that I have moved the amend-ment and am keen on. its being accepted.The proposed new clause shows ainple evi-dence of every consideration having beeneiven to it.

New clause put and passed.Title-agreed to.Bill reported with amendments, and the

report adopted.

Third Reading.BiUl read a third time and returned to

the Council with amendments.

BILLS (5)-RETUB.NED.

1,3 Financial Emergency Tax (No. 3).2, Mortg-a gees' Rights Restriction Act

Continuance. A1

3, Northam Municipal Council Valida-tion.

4, Road Closure.5, Reserves.

Without amendment.

BILL--DAIRY PRODUCTS MEARKETINGREGULATION AMENDMENT.

Council's Amendment-As to CommitteeStage.

Order of the Day read for the considera-tion in Committee of an amendment madeby the Council.

THE MINIS TER FOR AGRICULTURE(Hon. F. J. S, Wise-Gascoyne) [9.58] : 1move-

That the House do now resolve itself intoCommittee for the purpose of considering theCouncil's amendments.

MR. SLEEAX (Fremantle) [9.5DJ : Ido not think we ought to go into Committeeon the Council's amendment. In fact, Imove an aniendment-

That "now" be struc-k out with a view toinserting othier words.We hare reached the stage where anythingof a dairying or farming or pastoral natureis passed by another place without hesita-lion. We passed a Bill for the reductionof rents on pastoral leases, and there wasno hesitation in another place, where it waspassed in a few minutes. As I say, any-thing touching the fanning industry or thepastoral industry is never held up by an-other place. But I am sick and tired of see-ing industrial legislation sent there fromthis place only to be thrown out of the win-dow.

Mr. Warner: Nonsense!Mr. SLEEMAN; It is not nonsense:

There has never been an objection in theCouncil to any farming or pastoral mneasure.In this Chamber the only measure we haveever contested was that for the bulk hand-ling of wheat, and we had good cause forcontesting that. The time wil[ come whenthe farmers will admit that it is not muchgood to them. This House would be welladvised in future to see that industrialmeasures were sent up to another place first

2625

[ASSEMBLY.]

of All, and that Bills relating to thefhrmling industry were made to waituntil we saw whether our industrialmeasures had been passed or thrownout,. I take second place to no manin my desire to see that the farmers receiveAL fair deal. Someone, however, has to makea move to see that the industrial legislationof tihe Government is not thrown out as hasbeen the case this session. It seems to methat members of another place are sobiased that they cannot see fair play in anylegislation that is of an industrial nature.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The bon. mein-her mnust not reflect on members of anotherplace.

Mr. SLEEMAN: That was no reflection.Mr, SPEAKER: The hon. member must

not continue in that strain.Mr. SILEEMAN: We sent them a Bill to

relieve tenants, and it was thrown out. Wesent along the Factories and Shops ActAmendment Bill. There was nothing revo-(utionary in that hut it was valuable to theindustrialists and it was thrown out. TheFair Rents Bill was thrown out. Anything-that was of any -benefit to the industrialistswas thrown out. 'Take the Mines Regula-tion Act Amendment Bill and tile Indus-trial Arbitration Act Amendment Bill; bothwere thrown out. Now there is a move todisallow a regulation dealing with the mein-ing industry. There is one section of thecommunity which will stand no nonsensefrom another place; I refer to the miningsection. I am pleased to know there is asection that will stand up to these old fel-lows if necessary. The Whole Milk ActAmendment Bill was passed without inryargument. The Dairy Products MarketingAct Amendment Bill comes back to us withonly a slight amendment. Another Bill re-latin 'a to the dairy industry, the IndustriesAssistance Act Amendment Bill, a Bill re-lating to wool, and another relating to re-ductions of rents for pastoralists. all warepassed without any difficulty in anotherplae.t* Hon. C. G. Latham: On a point of order.I understand the question before the HOuseis whether we resolve ourselves into Com-mittee for the purpose of considering a toes-sage from another place.

Mr. SPEAKER: The question is that Ido now leave the Chair.

Mr. SLREMAN: The Leader of the Op-position will have his turn later. We shouldijnot agree that the Speaker should now leave

the Chair. The time has come f or somae-one to make a move to see that justice isdone to the workers. The people of thisState are paying out many thousands ofpounds for members of Parliament to legis-late for all sections of the community. Theyare paying out thou sends of pounds for afew gentlemen in another place to throw outlegislation that is of the utmost value, atall events to one section of the community.I defy members opposite to show that anyopposition of any kind has been dis-played-

Hon. C. G. Latham: That is all bluff andshow.

Mr. SLEEMAN: It is all very well forthe hon. member to say, "If this Bill passesthis House it will not be passed throughanother place." He has threatened that onmany occasions.

Hon. C. G. Lathant: Nothing of the sort,and you know it.

Mr. Raphael interjected.Hon. C. G. Latham: Shut up!M1r. SPEAKER: I hope the member for

Victoria Park and the Leader of the Opposi-tion will keep order.

Mr. SLEEMAN: If any industrial ques-tion is brought down and opposition isshown to it by members on the other side ofof the House, and they are outnumbered,they do not hesitate to say, "We will ]et itgo; we do not think it will get through an-other place." It is time the people of thecountry took a hand and agreed that anotherplace had no longer any right to exist.

Hon. 0. G. Latam: Very well, let us trythat. Get the Government to resign.

Mr. SLEEMAN: I would resign to-morrow but for the fact that the old fowlsup there-

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem-ber must not ase language like that concern-ing members of another place.

Mr-. SLEEMAN: As if there was anychance of getting them to go out! Of whatuse would it 'be for us to resign? We couldresign ten times over and come back with amandate from the people, and mnembers ofanother place would simply sit there andlaugh.

Mr. SPEAKER: The bon. member is notgiving reasons for striking out the wordcdnlow-1i

Mr. SLEEMAN: I am giving the Leaderof the Opposition reasons why it would beuseless for us to resign. The time has

[10 DEcsnnm, 1936.] 26127

arrived when we should amend a motion ofthis sort soe that you, Mr. Speaker, do notnow leave the Chair for the purpose ofdiscussing this message. We should nolonger tolerate the action of another place,as wre have been doing. This Bill affectsthe dairying industry, but has come back tous with only a small amendment. Whathappened to the Bill that was intended torelieve necessitous tenants? What happenedto the Factories and Shops Bill which wasurgently required by the workers--thosepeople who are being ground down by un-scrupulous employers? Both those Billswere thrown out. For these reasons I havemuch pleasure in moving that the word"now" be struck out with a view to insert-ing other words.

MR. RAPHLAEL (Victoria Park) [10.6]:I second the amendment. Tt is time thatmembers of the Labour Party accepted thesuggestion of the Leader of the Op~position,resigned, and went to the country. Wewould be prepared to accept that challengeif members of another place would] do thesame. That challenge has been thrown outto the Labour Party on many occasions bymnembers opposite, that when a measure wasdefeated in another place we should go tothe country. What object would there bein our going to the country when membersof another place would not be prepared todo likewise? I believe that many membersopposite would go to their electors in fargreater trepidation than most members onthis side of the House would show. We hadthe agony of listening- to many amendmentsmoved by the member for Katanniug on theAborigines Bill. He is prepared to givemuch time and consideration to affordingjustice to black fellows.

Hon. P. D. ]Ferguson: Was there any-thing wrong about thatt

Mr. RAPHAEL: Whenever there was achance of affording relief to necessitousworkers, to sustenance workers and others,his vote was always given against doing SO.

Mr. SPEARER: The hon. member mustnot discuss the member for Katanning, butdiscuss the matter before the Chair.

Mr. RAPHAEL: I am giving my reasons.Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member's rea-

sons are out of order.Mr. RAPHAEL: This is not the first time

that members of another place have throwvnout important industrial measures. They

are prepared on all occasions to give consid-eration to any Bill that directly affects h0interests of pastoralists, farmers and peopleengaged in the dairy industry. They areprepared to pass all those Bills and makeonly minor amendments to them. Quitedifferent is their attitude towards industriallegislation. During the past week four orfive important measures were throwntout without even being taken into Com-mittee. The miners are entitled to someconsideration at the hands of another place.They practically live underground and dragup the wealth of the country, and are re-sponsible for Western Australia being putback on the map. The Bill relating to themreceived no consideration in another place.The miners, however, are prepared to takedirect action by striking. Other indus-trialists have not the same opportunity.They cannot point the gun at people'sheads. Shopi assistants and others are de-nied their legislative rights by .30 men, or Ishould say by about 18 out of the 30. Theyare denied this right notwithstanding thatthe Labour Government was returned by' amajority vote of the people, returned on aniadult franchise against the franchise ofbricks and mortar in another place. Theworkers are denied by another place the op-portunity of benefiting from any legislationpassed in this Chamber. They are there-fore denied their full rights. It is fittingthat we should take this opportunity tovoice our protests against the action of an-other place. I see members of the CountryParty grinning. They appreciate that theyhave been successful with all the Bills affect-ing their particular communities.

Mr. Warner: What about the Agricul-tural Bank Act?

Nr. RAPHAEL: The hon. member'sparty supported it. They do not like theAgricultural Bank Act now they havewakened up to it.

Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. member can-not discuss that Act.

Mr. RAPHAEL: I am replying to aninterjection.' I hope that next session theLabour Party wvill introduce only legislationthat affects industrialists.

Mr. Warner: Is that a threat or apromise

Mr. RAPHAEL: If we are not success-full in getting our industrial legislationpassed we should leave the pastoralists andthe farmers high and dry.

2628 [ASSEMBLJY]

lion. P. D. Ferguson: They are high aniddry already.

. r . RAPHAEL: I suppose they are dry;Whenanother place was threatened by theGovernment that the farming commllunitywould suffer if the Financial Emergency Billwvas not passed, members there quielyvchanged their attitude. If our industrial]Ipgislation .is not passed next session weshould see that no other Bills are broughtdown. The, member for Fremantle hasbromuht forward one of the most importantquestions referred to this session. I hopethe Government will bear the matter inmind and see that Labour principles; takeprecedence over all others.

MR. HEGNEY (Mliddle Swan) [10.13]:Representing anl industrial constituency Iwish to add my protest to that of other mni-hers. Another plaee has shown a distinct biasthis session in dealing with industrial Incas-pros. They did not even have the courtesyto carry the second reading in most cases.They could well have taken the Hills intoCommittee and amended any clauses thatpppeared to them unreasonable. So trans-parent was their bias that they rejected thoseBills on the second rending. We know thefate of the Factories and Shops Act Amendment Bill, and the Industrial ArbitrationAct Amendmnent Bill. The latter Act hasnot been amended for many years. Byvirtue of the experience gained in the ad-ministration, and the knowledge as to thelimitsa*tins of the Act, the Governmentbroug~ht down certain amcendmients. Thesewere considered in this Chamber in a goodspirit, and eventually the Bill was sent toanother place. The Legislative Council didiiot even allow the Bill to reach the Commit-tee stage. I have been returned by anl in-dustrial population, and desire to protestii aihist the action of another place. In myeajpacity as a member of this House, I haveendeavoured to examine every measurehroughf before us. When it has affectedthe primary producers, I have extendedevery assistance and support in orderto legislate in their interests. Whenit comes to matters affecting the industrialcommunity, another place peremptorily re-jects the legislative proposals. Onl the other]land, when Bills dlealinz with the interestsof primary producers conf rout them, theyare dealt with in a considerate manner. ifthe Council make amendments to such Bills,we give those amendments careful considera-

tion when the measures are returned to usin -their amended form. Members of thisChamber give fair and reasonable considera-tion to such legislation, but the LegislativeCouncil have 'tot dealt with the industriallegislative programmei of the Government asthey should have done. Onl various occasionsI have listened to the debates in anotherplace and have heard members, there criti-cise the Glovernmnent, particularly withregard to taxation, and urge that theworkers in receipt of the basic wage or lessshould be required to contribute somethingtowards taxation. The present Governmentdesire to exempt the men in recipt of thebasic wage or less, but not only on the pre-sent occasion lhnt during other sessions theLegislative Council have given scant consid-eration to such matters. The industrial sec-tion complained bitterly regarding the un-ceremonious way the Legislative Councildeal with the Government proposals. Manyreasonable and fair provisions were includedin tile Factories and Shops Act AmendmentHill and the Arbitration Act AmendmentBill, but the miembers of another place hadnot the decency to examine them.

M11r. Done%,: Onl a point of order. I wishto point outi, Mr. Speaker, that the memberfor Middle Swan is reflecting upon anotherplace, and the Standing Orders will not per-mit of that being done.

Mr. SPEAKE R: The member for MiddleSwan is not reflecting upon another placehat up~on their work. The holl. member mayproceed.

r HEGNEY: I an, endeavouring topoint out that the legislative Council havenot dealt with the Governmenit's industriallegislative programmne in a fair and reason-able mianner.

Mr. Slecumn: You are treating them veryleniently.

Mr. HEGNEY: I "-as elected to supportthe legislative programme of the Government,and I expect the Government to give effectto their policy. Although I was returned bya majority of the industrial workers ofMiddle Swvan, I have endeavoured in an ima-partial mnlner to deal with every proposalbrought before thi House. I expect themembers of the Leg-islative Council to doth-at too. I protest vigorously against thebiassed and partisaln manner adopted by theLegislative Council. I have listened to argu-ments that wvere puerile in the extreme, andI protest against the attitude of the Council.

[10 flncnnn, 1936.] 2629

Mr. Doney: Is that not a reflection uponanother place?

. Ar. HEGNEY: I hope my protest willbe supported by the Government.

MR. AMASHALL (Murchison) [10.20]:I much regret having to support a motionof this kind, which may be accepted as anindication that one is keenly desirous ofdestroying- valuable legislation.

Mr. Sampson: It is not compulsory todo so.

Mr. 'MARSHALL: I do not require tobe reminded of that fact. I am particu-larly concerned with regard to what is hap-pening, because we continually advise ourelectors at all times to adopt Constitutionalmethods to gain reform in general andprogress in industry. That is what westand for. But if I am expected to sitquietly by when all avenues of a Consti-tutional character have been exploited, un-availingly, due to the fact-I do not thinkmembers opposite will deny it-that muchof thc industrial legislation, such as thatwhich will be before the Chamber in afew minutes, has received scant considera-tion in another place because of its appli-cation to a different section of the com-munity than that in which they are mainlyinterested, I say quite openly that if theworkers are to be. compelled to toil under-ground without any improvement in theirindustrial conditions, and Constitutionalmethods to effect reforms arc to fail con-tinually, then, so far as I am concerned,every miner can cease work.

Mr. Sleejuan: The Council are after thenew regulation now.

Mr. MARSHALL: If all legislation weregiven fair and honest consideration, Iwould not complain, but you, Mr. Speaker,know as well as I do that much of theGovernment's legislation is discussed andits fate decreed before ever it is introducedin the Chamber.

Mr. Cross: Yes, at conferences in thecorridor.

Mr. MARSHALL: No; its fate is de-creed at the office of the Employers' Fed-ertation. That is where its political trialfirst takes place. Such undemocratic pro-cedure rather rankles. We should remem-ber that 220,000 people elected the went-hers of this Chamber, and supported apolicy presented by the Government.

Hon. C.. G.. Latham: You know you. donot represent half the people of the State,

Mr. MNARSHALL: I am speaking aboutthe electors who choose the members totake seats in this Chamber. They en-dorsed the policy of the Labour Party andreturned the present Government. Againstthat, 60,000 people elected the members ofthe Upper House and the plural votingthat goes on aggravates the position. Wefind that the members of another placedisallow what a majority of the people de-sire. I am sorry that members of anotherplace, who are always boasting about theConstitution and claim that they are 'aHouse of Review, should pursue such apolicy. As a matter of fact, they have notreviewed any of the legislation that I havein mind. That legislation. was placed 'onthe political chopping block long before itwas introduced in that Chamber. When 'a

person has a little property and can get hisusme on the roll fdr the Legislative Council,he is able to elect members of another placeto deal with legislation that the Governmentdesire to have passed. There are thoir-sands of workers throughout the State andif they find they can no longer expect r&'form in a Constitutional manner, they nvilltake the bull by the horns and see- thatthey get what they want.

HON. 0. G. LATH1A (York) .[10.25]:Apparently opportunity is being taken onthis motion to conduct a post mortem withrespect to what has occurred during thecurrent session. The decorum that is usuallydisplayed in this House has been departedfrom and members have embraced the oppor-tuinity, to say unfair and unreasonable thingsabout another place. Some of the statementsmade could be said also about this Chamber.Bills have been introduced for the benefit ofprimary producers and what sort of treat-menit did they receive? Were they given con-sideration?

Mr. Cross: Of course.

Hon. C. G. LATHAMI: Was considerationgiven to the Hill introduced by the memberfor Irwin-Moore (Hon. P. D. Ferguson) lastnight? As a matter of fact, if we are $otake this opportunity to criticise what hadibeen done, we can have a god dead to saoil this side of the House.

31r. Sleemuan: What was wrong with theBill last night?

2630 [ASSEMBLY.]

Hon. C. G. Latham: What was wrong withit?. It was not given any consideration.

Mr. Sleeman: It was not properly beforethe House.

Ron. C. G. LATHAM: I know what hap-pened. Bills have been introduced by pri-vate members and passed by this House thatimposed a drain upon the public revenue nomore and no less than the Bill that was ruledout of order last night. As a matter of fact,members of this side of the House have givenevery consideration to the legislation that hasbeen introduced. Not one measure did notreceive fair and reasonable discussion. Ifhon. members wish to discuss the actions ofanother place, then let them go on the plat-form outside and take thme question up beforethe electors.

Mr. Thorn: They would not come at that.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: That is the proper

place. If hon. members do that, we will showthem where we stand.

Mr. Sleeman: More threats!Hon. C. G. LATHAM: The threats have

come from the Government cross-benchesand members there should be ashamed ofthemselves. Let them go outside and saythese things.

Mr. Raphael interjected.Hion. C. G. LATHAM: The member for

Victoria Park should be quiet. He remainedas silent as possible when the member forEast Perth (Air. Hughes) tackled him.

Mr. Raphael: Rats!Hon. C. G. LATHAM: If the member for

East Perth were in his seat now, not halfwhat has been stated this evening would havebeen uttered by members opposite.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order!Air. Raphael interjected.Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The member for

Victoria Park will run a grave risk if he willnot obey the Chair. I hope the Leader ofthe Opposition will address himself to themotion.

Mir. Cross interjected.Mr. SPEAKER: Order!Ron. C. 0. LATHAM: I will attempt to

obey your orders, Mr. Speaker, but I wishto take this opportunity to say something inreply on behalf of the members of anotherplace, because they have no opportunity- ofdefending themselves in this Chamber. 1resent the statements that have been madeabout them. The opportunity has been takento reflect upon them. Mlembers of anotherplace have had an opportunity to deal with

legislation just as we have had the oppor-tunity to deal with it here and each Housebaa acted as it thought fit. This is not theplace to complain about the LegislativeCouncil. Let members go out into theProvinces and take the matter uip with theelectors.

Air. Hegney: We have, and we were re-turned.

Hon. C. G. LATHIAM: If they want thefranchise altered, there is a proper way todeal with it.

Mr. Sleeman: W~e have tried that.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: That may be so,but that is no justification for such an attackon members of another place. I notice thatmembers here waited until a certain Bill waspassed by another place before they madetheir attacks. The attack made to-nightcould have been made last night or on someother night. The Minister for Agriculturehaes had the Bill returned with an amend-ment w~hich, I believe, was proposed by him-self. As a protest against the introductionof ill-framed legislation in this House Ishould like to object to you, Sir, leaving theChair. Proper consideration is not given toit, and hundreds of amendments arc put onthe Notice Paper by Ministers when intro-ducing legislation here, and that showsclearly that they have given very little con-sideration to their Bills. If we had donethat kind of tihing- when we were in office,hon. members opposite, from the side of theHouse on which I am now speaking, wouldhove complained bitterly- . In every possibleway we on this side of the House have triedto assist the Gov-erment and the p~rotest Imake now is that the legislation that hasbeen introduced has been ill-con-sidered. If members want final dis-cussions to take place, and they seize theopportunity' to vilify another House, theyare making a mistake, and they will not getaway with it. I was hoping that the goodfeeling that had existed throughout the ses-sion would have been maintaimned until wehad had the opportunity of wishig eachother the comiplimnits of the season. I donot core a continental what has happened,but I do not intend to remain silent whilemembers on the cross-benches opposite at-tack another place. It is quite unusual; Ihave never heard it done before, and it is apity that such tactics have been introducedso late in the session.

[10 D)asmBni, 1936.]

MR. TONKIN (North-East Fremantle)[10,33]: 1 intend to support the motion asa protest against what appears to inc to bethe extremely partisan attitude adopted byanother place when considering legislationfrom this Chamber. In voicing my protest,I do not see any reason why the Leader ofthe Opposition should have got so hot andbothered. I assure him that when I leavethis Chamber I shall leave it with everygood feeling towards other members andwithout a thought of malice towards anyone.I am taking the opportunity to protestagainst what I think has been the unfair at-titude of another place towards a section ofthe community. This Government have in-troduced more than a fair proportion ofBills in the interests of the people directlyrepresented by members opposite, and be-cause we have been most consider-ate in thatregard, I think, we might reasonably haveexpected another place to have given betterconsideration to the industrial Bills we putup, even if another place did not eventuallypass them. But instead of giving conside-ra-tion to those Bills, another place simplytook the first opportunity to vote them out.

Mr. Thorn: But you never puit themi upto be passed.

Mr. TONKIN: Certainly we dlid.Mr. Thorn: I thought not.Mr. TONK IN: The hon. member is

always thinking quite a lot. In view of thevery reasonable attitude of the Governmentin putting uip, iu my opinion, more than afair proportion of Bills mostly in the in-terests of constituents of members opposite,we could have expected better treatment forour industrial legislation. Hon. membersopposite have said here on occasions, whenwe have submitted our industrial Bills, thatthey would be able to rely upon anotherplace to defeat those Bills. They have de--dlared that they have never used that threat,but I can remember its having been saidrepeatedly- Members opposite have beenvery annoyed because we have had the num-bers in this Hlouse to carry certain mea-sires, and they have said that when a cer-tain Bill reached another place, that wouldbe the end of it.

Hon. C_ G. Latham:- You are protestingbecause they have the numbers.

Mr. TONKIN. I ami protesting becausethey have thrown alit our legislation, whichwould have been in the interests of the bon.member's constituents. We could reasonably

have expected that another place wouldpass a proportion of the measures we sentto them, just as we would expect them topass a proportion of the legislation thatwould be in the interests of the primary pro-ducers. The present Government havedone a fair thing and the perusal of theBills sent forward will prove -what I say.That part of our programme introduced forthe purpose of assisting primary producershas been gladly accepted by members oppo-site,. and by their colleagues in anotherplace, but the industrial legislation hasbeen defeated almost in tote. That is notreasonable treatment and I urge the Pre-niier to take notice of the suggestion madeby the member for Fremantle to send for-ward to another place at an earlier stageof the session, all the -industrial legisla-tion, and then to follow that up with legis-lation in the interests of the primary pro-ducers, and that he should refrain -fromgoing forward with the latter legislationuntil such time as he gets a reasonable re-sponse in connection with the industrialBills. That appears to me to be the only,way in which we can get our industrialBills passed, certainly while the Lcgislii2

tire Council is constituted as it is at pre-sent. Whilst we have the numbers againstus in that Chamiber we have no chance ofgetting very necessary Bills through. Whyshould not members representing industrialconstituencies expect to get Bills passedwhich will be of assistance to their con-stituents? Are we to remain satisfied withonly one section of the community deriv-ing a benefit from legislation? I believein reasonable treatment all round, andwhilst I have ne'ver obstructed legislationwhen I felt it was in the interests of theprimary producers, I have had to watchthe wholesale destruction of industriallegislation in another place because it wassupposed to have been against the inter-ests of certain members representing pri-mary producing constituencies. This is theonly opportunity we have of entering aprotest against what baa been done by an-other place and I commend the memberfor Fremantle for taking the opportunityof giving utterance to this grievance. !trust the Premier will adopt the hon.member's Suggestion and in that way prob-ably get through next session some of thoseBills that another place rejected this ses-sion.

2632 (ASSEMBLY.J

3.LAMBERT (Vilgarn-Coolgardic)[10.43]: 1, too, desire formially to sup-poqrf the motion woved by the member forFrdiuahtle. Since I have been in thisCha'mber the attitude adopted by anotherplace towards legislation sent forward bythiLs House has been definitely inexcusable.The five industrial'Bills that we sent to an-other place this session were all voted outon the second reading. Not one was giventhe slightest consideration.

MNr. Thorn: Just as you treated somie ofthe' Bills from this side of the House.

Alr. LAMBERT: I know bow I wouldlike to treat the hon. member. The Bill toamuend the Mlines Regulation Act was votedout without any consideration at all. ThatBill did not make any definite departurefrom the existing legislation that has beenin force for 17 or 18 years.

'Mir. SPEAKER: The hon. member can-niot discuss legislation on the motion.

Mr. LAMBERT: I take it, however, thatunder the motion that you should leave theChair, another place can he brought intoclearer view. That was not the only Billthat was passed out on the second reading.The Financial Emergency Act AssessmentAct- Amnendmenut Bill met with a similarf~te, whilst the Industrial Arbitration ActAblendment Bill was also thrown out-allwithout any consideration whatever as tothe m~erits. or demerits of those measures.It is quite evident that members of anotherplace have -set themselves out to rejectlegislation that is likely to i mpleinent thepolicy of our party.

Air. SPEAKER: The hon. member is out6f order,

Mr. LAMBERT: T do not intend to dealwith that phase of the question.

Mr. Thorn interjected.Mir. LZAMBERT?: it appears that you will

be-Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem-

ber will address the Chair.

Mr. LAMBERT: I felt keenly the pass-ing out of the Bill last night.

Air. SPEAKER: Let me direct the hon.member's attention to the fact that he can-not discuss what happened last night.

Mr. LAMBERT: I do not desire to dis-cuss the Bills that have been passed out, butas you, Mr. Speaker, allowed a certainamount -of latitude to previous speakers, Ithought it would be possible for me to walkthe same plank.

Mr. Withers: It is a bit wobbly.Mir. LAM~BERT: If you, Sir, consider

that I am out of order in reviewing theactions of another place and the manner inwhich they have treated our legislation thissession-

Mir. Coverley: You will gracefully retire!Mir. LAMBERT: -there is little more for

mne to say. I1 associate myself with themember for Freinantle in voicing a definiteprotest against the unpardonable manner inwhich another place this session has dealtwvith the legislation sent forward. Probablymembers of another place will be satisfiedif we have a mnining- strike throughout thegoldlfields on on~e principle that was emi-bodied in legislation enacted 16 or 17 yearsag-o. It is not for members of another placeto throw out legislation that did not evenvary hut merely sought to give clear inter-pretation to anl existing Act. I do not knowwhether it would be fruitful or informativefor itc to speak at further length, other thanto say that I have been pleased to registerthe wvishi that this Chamber will preserve itsself-respect. We have received a mandatefrom the p~eople, and it is our duty to giveeffect to it in this Chamber, and not allow aprivileged Chamnber to tamper with ourlegislation as they have done. Guy Fawkeswould be a very fine chap-

Mir. Marshall: The onl m ian who enteredParliamenit with go9d intentions--to blowthe place up.

M1r. Thorn: You have no right to say that.Mr. LAMWBERT: If I might be pardoned

for referring to the Rural Belief ActAmendmient Bill, I regret your ruling, Mr.Speaker.

Mr. SPEAkKER: The hon. member is toolate to regret it now. He should hare doneso last night..

Mr. LAMBERT: I did do so.Mir. SPEAKER: The hion. member is not

going to discuss the Bill now.31r. LAMBE 'RT: I am glad the member

for Fir emantle seized the opportunity tovoice the only protest that can be made. Ifor one will avail myself of every possibleopportunity to do likewise.

Mrx. Thorn: Yon are too late this session.Mr. LAMBERT: The hon. member ap-

pears to have had much more than cricketto-day. We are in the executive positionand we have a right to protest. I shall seizeevery, opportunity to protest if another Placewill not imnpleme~nt our legislation as mightreasonably be expected. The last of this

2632'

[10 D)ECEmBERJ 1936.1 63

story has not beeni told and] will not be toldunti-

M1r. Warner: The roses bloomi again.Mir. LAMBERT: No; until members of

another place ar4 faced with the probabilityof the biggest industrial upheaval the Statehas witnessed.

.Mr. Warner: Do you lprol)ose to brin~gdown a bulk -handling scheme?

Ilr. LAMBERT: The hort. member hadbetter stick to his grasshoppers. When thatoccus-

Mr. Coverley: The grasshoppers?M1r. LAMWBERT: When the upheaval

occurs, members of another place will beapproaching the Labour Party with a re-quest that the industrial organtisations bedisciplined. It is not within our provinceto discipline people who arc suffering dis-advantages that legislation could hare recti-fied. I do not wish further to parade myviewpoint beyond saying that unless we arcallowed to implement somne of our legisla-tion, essential from an industrial standpoint,memibers of another place will get no legisla-tion to satisfy the interests they represent,'namely the commercial and moneyed inter-ests of the city as distinct froni the inter-ests of the country districts.

MR. STYANTS (IKalgoorlie) [10.55]: Asone who cndeavours. to represent a consti-tuency comprising principally induistrialworker;, I ami glad of ain opportunity tovoice a protest against the partisan attitudeadopted towards industrial legislation thissession. I am greatly disappointed, becausemany of the measures which were consideredto 'be quite fair and which closely affectedthe interests of people in my electorate havebeen thrown out without due regard beingpaid to at least some of the good provisionscontained in them. Several measures havenot even reached the Committee stage. WhileT should not expect all the industrial legis-lation submitted by the Labour Party to bepassed, I did expect it would reach thec Comn-mittee stage, and that any objectionable pro-visions would be amended. That course hasnot been adopted by another place. It wasand still is my opinion that the scales ofjustice should be held evenly in the matterof legislation. There should not be a burn-ing desire to pass legislation suitable to aparticular section of the people whom theGovernment represent, and there should notbe a similar desire to pass legislation re-quired by those who are generally considered

to support mnitberi of the Opposition. Fairtreatment should( be meted out to all classesof the community. During this session Ihave endeavoured to follow that policy. Ufmembers of the Opposition had frabiod theirBills in accordance with Parliamentary pro-cedure, I would probably haVe supportedmany of the clauses, but the B3ills were notso framed, and therefore were disallowed.That is not the fault of members on this sideof the House. The Leader of the Oppsi-tion said that during- the session he hadTtaken every opportunity to assist the Gov-erment. This is mny first session in) Par~a-went, and if the tactics adopted by theLeader of the Opposition and the combinedlOpposition hare been directed to assistingthe Government, I (10 not know what wouldhave occurred to the Government had thosemembers been dinkum in their oppositioni.On no fewer than three occasions they haveendeavoured to unseat the Government. Thefirst occasion was when they failed, on amotion moved by the member for East Perth,to rope in the independent member, the myemi-ber for N\elson, but- on the second occasionthey made no mistake, and framed theirmotion in terms that were all-embraciag.I shall not occupy any great tine in Voicingmy protest. I have endeavoured to do jus-tice to all1 sections of the community, and Iexpect members of the Opposition to atsimilarly when legi-slation is introduced tobenefit the industrialists. I would be veryloth to adopt the retaliatory methods sug-gested by previous speakers. In amy opinion,that would be wrong. Still, we have our dutyto represent the industrialists. While I shallbe pleased to support legislation for thebenefit of agriculturists, if the same uncm-promising attitude is adopted to industriallegislation next session, T shall have to con-sider seriously whether I can continue topursue that course. I shall do -what theLeader of the Opposition suggests shoulbe done-go to Kalgoorlie over the week7end and make arrangements to address anmeeting of the electors of Kalgoorlie to tellthem what is the attitude of another placewith regard to industrial legislation. It willprohahly rest with them to decide, to someextent, what representation they will havein that Chamber in future.

MR. SAMPSON (Swan) [11.1] : I haveibeen surprised and disappointed at thie re-marks of so many speakers who in their'own behaviour have been guilty of at leiist

203

[ASSEMBLY.]

the same partisanship, if partisanship doesexist in another place. Last night a Billwas before, this House. I take it, Mr.Speaker, you will not object to my draw-ing an analogy between-

The Minister for Employment: WhatBill was that?

Mr. SAMPSON: There was before thisChamber last night a Hill the object ofwhich was to provide hospital service forpersons not able to pay for it.

The Minister for Employment: On whatbasis I

Mr. SAMPSON: Apart from the Minis-ter, who spoke against the measure, notone member on the Government side ofthe Chamber said one word in connectionwith it. The Bill went out on the secondreading. It was not a taxing measure. Itsobject was to enable-

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem-ber has b~en here long enough to know thathe cannot discuss a Bill which was thrownout on the previous night.

Mr. SAMPSON: Quite so, Mr. Speaker.We have heard to-night nmany complaintsof alleged partisanship in another place. Itwould be well if members who spoke alongthose lines considered their own conduct inconnection with the hospitals measure.

Hon. P. Collier: That was not a partymeasure.

Mr. SAMPSON: No, but it had a highlyimportant bearing on the country.

Hon. P. Collier: Not more so than onthe goldfields.

Mr. SAMPSON: Just so.Hon. P. Collier: You do not know what

you are talking about.Mr. SAMPSON: The member for Boul-

der perhaps does.Ron. P. Collier: .1 do.

Mr. SAMPSON: We shall be verypleased to hear the hon. member 's voicenow and then.

Hon. P. Collier: Members would ratherhear me than hear you.

Mr. SAMPSON: Perhaps the memberfor Boulder-

Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. mem-ber had better address the Chair.

Mr. SAMPSON: I anm very anxious toaddress* the Chair, Sir. I claim that theconsideration given in this Chamber to acertain measure relating to hospital servicewas entirely unfair and did not indicate

that regard for the welfare of others whichhas been so blatantly expressed to-night.

Mr. Lambert: We'll find a decent hos-pital for you!

Mr. SAMPSON: I could give the addressof a suitable hospital for the hon. member,but he probably, in company with everyother muember of the House, knows thataddress. Therefore there is no need fortue to give it. It has been suggested thata one-sided attitude has been adopted byanother place in regard to certain legisla-tion. That is an unf air thing to say, parti-cularly when, as I indicated, every speakeron the Government side of this Chambershowed himself disinclined last night togive consideration to the sick-every oneof them.

The Minister for Employment: What isthe object of this speech?

Mr. SAMPSON: The object of thisspeech is to show the unfairness, the lop-sidedness of certain remarks which havebeen made. if the speech provides themeans of inducing the memher for Boulderto make some remarks on the subject, thenit may be justified from that aspect.

Hon. P. Collier: You might not bepleased to hear what I have to say.

Mr. SAMPSON: I do not say I wouldbe, because the hon. member might exer-cise his mind in abuse and condemnationof other persons.

Hon. P. Collier: .I have been very merci-ful to you.

Mr. SAMPSON: I have never noticed ityet.

Mr. Lanibert: It is easy to talk like that.The Minister for Employment: There is

a chap at Kalamunda who wvill stir you up!IMr. SAMPSON: We will put him on the

platform with that party from Northarnwho-

Mr. SPEAKER: I understand that thehon. member will connect those remarkswith the question before the Chair.

Mr. SAMPSON: Yes, Sir. The remarksm~ade by .. arious speakers have been quiteunjustifid. What this has to do with aBill relating to primary products, whichwe were about to consider, is a question.It would appear that those who havespoken desire, because there is a measureeoming on dealing with marketing regula-tions for dairy products, to raise objectionto things that have happened in anotherplace--in several instances, many days ago.

[10 D)ECitEMBE, If36.] 23

That is quite unjustified. If hon. memberswill give consideration to their own conduct,they will realise that there has been a gooddeal of hypocrisy in some of the remarkswhich have been made.

Amendment put and negatived.Question put and passed.

In Committee,TMr. Hegney in the Chair; the Minister for

Agriculture in charge of the Bill.New clause :-Insert a new clause after

Clause 21, to stand as Clause 22, as fol-lows:-

Amendment of Section 43.22. Section forty-three of the principal

Act is amended by adding thereto a subsec-tion, as follows:-

(2.) If at any time the Treasurer is un-able to make advances to the Board asprovided for in subsection (1) of this sec-tion, and the Board is unable, by reason ofnot having any funds invested or for anyother reason, to borrow from a haryk bymeans of an overdraft on current accountas provided for in section forty-two ofthis Act, and moneys for the time beingin the Dairy Products Stabilisation Fundare not sufficient to enable the Board tomake to any person willing to store dairyproducts for purposes of deriving benefitfrom the Dairy Products Stabilisation.Fund in accordance with this Act, pay-ments in accordance with this Act out ofthe said Fund, the Board may with theapproval of the Governor do either or bothof the following things, namrely:-

(a) Borrow such amount as may be re-quired by the' Board for such purposefrom any bank, corporation, or per-son willing to lend the same on the-security of the Dairy Products -Stabi-lisation Fund upon such terms andconditions as may be mutuallyarranged between the Board and thelender; and in such ease the repay-ment of the sum so borrowed, togetherwith interest payable thereon shall bea charge upon the said Dairy Pro-ducts Stabilisation Fund; or

(b) By arrangement with any bank, cor--poration or person willing to lenddirect to the person willing to storedairy products as aforesaid, moneyup to the amount which the Board iswilling and authorised by this Actto pay to such person out of the Dairy'Products Stabilisation Fund to guar-antee to such hank, corporation or

person on the security of tile DairyProducts Stabilisation Fund repay-ment with interest thereon of suchauount as such bank, corporation -orperson may lend pursuant to sucharrangement; and in such case anyprincipal or interest -which the Boardmay be required as guarantor afore-said to repay to such bank, corpora-tion or person as lender aforesaidshall -be a charge upon the Dairy Pro-ducts Stabilisation Fund: Providedthat if and when after the Board asguarantor aforesaid has made pay-ment to any hank, corporation or per-son as lender, any payment is re-covered by the Board from the per-son to whom money was lent by suchbanik, corporation or person, shall beplaced to the credit of the Dairy Pro-ducts Stabilisation Fund.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The Leader of the Opposition made a veryunkindly remark when lie declared that v&'ylittle consideration had been given to thisand similar Bills prior to their coming tothis Chamber. I admit that the amendmentnow before us was moved by the Chief *e'c-retary after it had been sent by him to me.The reason is obvious to all who read theamendment. There has been great diffidl~yin con nection with the arrangement offinances in the operations of the Dairy Pro-ducts Marketing Regulation Board, who hadarranged the storage of a -major proportionof the butter output, particularly butterfrom a certain factory. The amendment isdesired in order to give effect to the arrange-ments of the board in connection withfinances. I move--

That the amendment be agreed to.Question put and passed; the Council's

amendment agreed to.Resolution reported, the report adopted,

and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.

BILL-FEDERAL AID ROADS (NEWAGREEMENT AUTHORISATION).

Returned from the Council without amen'd-ment.

RESOLUTION-BETTING CONTROLBILL.

To Inquire by Joint Select Committee-Council's Message.

Message from the Council received andread, notifying that it had agreed not -to

2635

[ASSEMBLY.]

appoint a select committee to act in con-junction with the select committee appointedby the Assembly in connection with theBetting Control Bill.

BiLL.-INANCIAL EMERGENCY TAXASSESSMENT ACT AMENDMENT(No. 2).

First Beading,Bill introduced], and read a first time.

Second Beading.

THE PREMIER (Hon. J1. C. Willek-Geraldton) [11.13] in moving- the secondreading said: The Bill is necessary to bringthe assessment measure into conformitywith the Financial Emergency Tax Billwhich has been passed by the LegislativeCouncil. The essential clause of this Billis Clause 2, which brings the AssessmentAct into conformity with the taxing measureas just passed by the Legislative Council.'Italters the exemption figure in the Assess-ment Act fronm £3 12s. to £3 15s., and makesthe necessiary adjustment for applying thetwo rates of tax in the year of incense justpassed. Clause 3 is a consequential adjust-ment of Section 9 of the principal Act. Idid think that we might alter the figure"twelve" to "fifteen" by a simpie amend-ment; but owing to the fact that the imposi-tion of the tax and the assessment of theamount to be paid by persons obtaining in-come who are assessed on their last year'sincome, we have to impose one financialemergency tax which would start to operatefrom the beginning of the year, and an-other which would operate for the six monthsat the end of this year. in the case of per-sons receiving income, the assessment ismade on last year's income. Therefore it isnecessary to have a Bill in this form to con-form to the taxing measure and to bring theAssessment Act into line. I move-

That the Bill be now read a second time.

On motion by 'Hon. C. G1. Latham, de-bate adjourned to a later stage of thesitting- -

BILL--PURCHASERS' PROTECTION

ACT AMENDMENT.

Council's Amendments.

Schedule of three amendments made by-the Council, now considered.

In C'ommifttee.Mr. Sleeman iii the Chair; Mr. Wilson in

charge of the Bill,

Clause 2.-Delete the word "section" inlline 3 of proposed new subsection (2) andsubstitute the word "subsect ion."

Clause 2.-Add the following proviso toproposed new subsection (2):

"Provided that no such relief shall begranted after judgmenit, unless the courtis satisfied-

(a) that the proceedings iii which judg-ment was, obtained -were not conLtested by the purchaser because ofpoverty; or

(b) that evidence which the purchaserfor any reason was unable to pro-duce when judgment was givenagainst him, is available; or

(c) that the purchaser had not a reason-able opportunity of contesting theproceedings on which judgmentwas given against him by reasonthat-

(i) he was in ill-health; or(ii) be resided at such distance from

the court that the court was notreasonably accessible to him; or

(iii) for any other reason, which thecourt deems sufficient."p

.No. 3. New clause-Add a new clauseto stand as Clause 3, as follows:

"3. The principal Act as amended bythis Act may be cited as the Purchasers'Protection Act, 1933-1936."On motions by Mr. Wilson the foregoing

amendments were agreed to.Resolutions reported, the report adopted,

and a message accordingly transmitted to theCouncil.

BILLr-STATE TRANSPORT CO-ORDflN-ATION ACT AMENDMENT (No. 3).

Second Beading.Debate resumed from the previous day.

THE MINISTER FOR WORKS (Ron.H. Millington-Mt. Ha-wthorn) [11.17]:This measure was passed in another placeand introduced in this House by the memberfor Katanning. It seeks to amend theTransport Ge-ordination Act passed in 1933.One of the important amendments proposedis that of Section 33, -which provides that-

No license salal be neressary in respect ofany commnereial goods vdliclc whieb: (a) oper-

[10 DEnina, f936.] 3

ates solely in the area within a radius of 15miles from the General Post Office, Perth; (b)operates solely within a radius of 15 milesfrom the place of business of the owner.

If the word "thirty" be substituted for"fifteen" an owner of a commercial goodsvehicle within an established place ofbusiness in Perth could transfer his planes ofbusiness to Wooroloo, and convey all classesof goods between Perth and Northam, Perthand York, Perth and Toodyay, and to placesten miles beyond. Likewise, a person couldtransfer his place of business to, say,Muchea, and convey all classes of goods fromPerth to Gingin and as far as Wannamal,and a peronGf who established his place ofbusiness at Mardella could operate betweenPerth and as far south as Coolup and a littlebeyond. I have had plans prepared whichwill illustrate just what the effect of this Billwould be if a 30-mile radius were substituted[for a 15-mile radius. This plan has beendrawn to scale, and a disc has been providledwhich represents a 30-mile radius. Trhosewho wish to see -what this Bill means canoperate the disc for themselves. By placingthe disc at Wooroloo it will be seen that abusiness can be established there serving allthe districts around Northain and York, andcutting out the railways altogether. I do notknow whether the hon. member realises that,hut that would ho the effect of the amend-ment. It looks innocent enough, but itcompletely defeats the object of thetransport measure. I do not know whetherthat is the desire, but that will undeniablyhe the effect. I will have this placedon the Table so that what I say canbe demonstrated by anyone sufficientlyinterested-and we should all be interested.Notwithstanding the fact that Section 33of the Act provides that a person who ownsa commercial goods vehicle may operate itsolely within the area of 15 miles radius ofthe G.P.O., Perth, or within a radius of 15miles of the place of business of the owner,manyv licenses for the transport of goods toand from areas beyond 15 miles from theG.P.O., Perth, or from the established placeof business in country centres have beengranted and in all such instances nominalfees only have been charged for permits orlicenses so issued. The board have not takena narrow view and have been careful topreserve, the interests of traders, providedthe traders do not unduly prejudice the busi-ness of the railways. Generally speakingsuch licenses or permits are issued so that

goods can be conveyed to places that ateisolated from railway lines, or for the trans-port of classes of goods which cannot beconveniently 'carried by rail. Clause 3 pro-vides for the amendment of Section 37 of theAct by giving, to the owner of a commercialgoods vehicle who is aggrieved by any de-cision of the board, the right to appeal tothe resident magistrate in whose magisterialdistrict is situate, or principally situate, thearea or route which would be served by theservice or the proposed service. The Act pro-vides that the board shall consist of threemembers, one of whom shall be a Govern-ment official, one a representative of ruralinterests, (Air. T. H. Bath), and one re-presentative of city interests (Mr. J. B.Hawkins). It was further provided that themembers appointed should be persons who,in tihe Governor's opinion, were capable ofassessing the financial and economic effecton the State 'as a whole of any transportpolicy. The board ale required to mnake in-vestigations and inquiries into transportmatters, and particularly to give considera-tion, amnong- other factors, to the questionof transport in the light of service to thecommunity, the needs of the State fo~reconomical development, and other mattersset out in Section 10. In the course of theirinvestigations, the board have acquiredknowledge which qualifies the members of itto decide whether licenses for road transportshould or should not be granted. Everyapplication made to the board is very fullyinvestigatedl before a decision is reached. Itis doubtful whether any magistrate in thisState has studied the world-wide problem oftransport by railways, road or air, or iscapable of assessing the financial andeconomic effect onl the State as a whole of anytransport policy. This is a special questionwhich requires some initiative on the partof the board. We have the experience ofrepresentatives of rural and city interestsand the experience of a capable Governmentofficial in Mr. Munt, the under-secretary forworks, to assist us. Nevertheless, and afterthe board has decided that a license shouldnot be issued a magistrate can order theboard to reverse their decision. In otherwords the board would be compelled to dowhat in their considered opinion was wrong,and thus the authority conferred on theboard by Parliament might be undermined.In this connection, it must be rememberedthat the board, by reason of their experience,

637

[ASSEMBLY.]

formulate a policy of State-wide import-ance, and to give a magistrate the power toupset a decision of the board might veryseriously interfere with the policy which hasbeen framied from a co-ordinating point ofview. There are so mnany interests affectedby tbe~decisions of the board that it wouldbe an unwise course to adopt to give amagistrate opportunity of coming to a de-cision which would have a State-wide effect.He would give a decision on a case whichwould have far-reaching effect and interfere'with the policy which has been successfullybuilt up by the board. A decision given bya magistrate would be confined to the par-ticulci' ease presented to him, but such adecision might force the board to adopt apolicy which is contrary to the spirit andintention of the Act. Even one wrong de-ekion might place the board in a very in-vidious position in reg-ard to other appli-cations, which had been received and refused.In connection with this mu11ch vaunted ques-tion of appeal there is no appeal allowedagainst a9 decision of tile Licensing Board.

Mr. Watts: The Transport Board do nottake evidence like the Licensing, Board.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: Don'tthey 9 Howv ro yrou think the board arriveat decisions!

Mr. Watts: They do not take evidence likethe Licensing Board, on oath.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: TheTransport Board have the opportunity ofbasing their decisions on evidence. They bareto study the transport system throughout theState and study the interests of the railways,inko which they go carefull1y. That was whatthey were appointed to do, and for everythingthey have done they have set out reasonsin their reports. If members will read thosereports they will see that the policy the boardhas adopted has undeniably been juistified.Again, there arc no appeals against the de-cision of the Arbitration Court, and wher-ever boards are appointed there is no appealagainst their decision. Paragraph (3) ofthe First Schedule provides that a producerwho owns a truck and who uses it solely forthe carriage of livestock, poultry, fruit,vegetables, dairy produce, or other perish-able commodities or wheat, may use thattruck without a license to convey such goodsfrom the place where they are produced toany other place, and to carry back on the-return journey any farmers' requisites fordomestic use or for use in producing the

commodities refenred to. The Bill providesfor the insertion of the -word "wool" afterthe word "wheat." If the Bill is agreed to,it may be taken for ranted that a farmerwho produces wheat and wool will send hiswheat by rail and get his super back by rail,'but will transport his wool on his own truckto Fremantle. That further means that onthe return journey he can carry with himsupplies of petrol, groceries, and anythingelse he needs for his domestic use or -for theproduction of commodities. The passing ofthe amendment would lead the way to theundermining of the Act itself. So thismeasure, which has been sent to us fromanother place, is one that we are preparedto consider but can hardly be expected toagree with. There is a suggestion that 'be-cause Kojonup is nearer to Perth by roadthan by rail, some important concessionsshould be given. But the Transport Boarddealt with this question in their report for1935, as they have always attempted to dealwith all objections taken to their adminis-tration. Not only is Kojonup affected in thisway, but so also are many other districts.Take Wiluna, whose distance from Perth is700 miles by rail and 560 by road, a differ-ence of 140 miles. Wiluna would have acase just as, exceptional as that of Kojonup.Then there is Meekatharra, which in pointof distance as between railway and roadshows a difference of 144 miles in favour ofthe road. We have had to restrict the com-mercial vehicle on the roads in its competi-tion with the railways. Williams is 100miles distant by road and 183 miles by rail,a difference, of course, of 83 miles in favourof the road. Kojonup by road is distanced159 miles and by rail 230 miles, or a differ-ence of 71 miles in favour of the road. So,as I have shown, Kojonup is not the onlyplace that is adversely affected. Almost alldistricts having railway communication areserved 'by railways that do not follow a directline, but traverse a longer distance than does,the corresponding road. Kojonup, aboutwhich so much fuss is made, is a pastoraldistrict rather than an agricultural district.I will give the hon. member an in-stance to show the importance of rail-ways because of their cheap transport ofsuper and of wheat- Without super ourState, I am sorry to say, would be almost abarren waste. I visited Boyup Brook andvras taken to a place 12 or 15 miles out.Being near to Boyup Brook, the owner ofthat place can afford tdi r'art super, and so

[10 DECEMBER, 1936.) 2639

he puts it on his paddoeks in the proportionof a bag to the acre. He was carrying1600 sheep on 400 acres, due to the fact thatnot only did he dress heavily with his fer-tiliser, but also he had his htolding dividedinto small blocks. Kr. Forrest, 20 or 30miles further out, said he could not affordto give his land a heavy dressing, becausethe cost of -carting super by truck was toogreat. And here we have Kojonup, a sheepdistrict, where super is used as heavily aspossible. It means that, without the rail-way, sheep could not he profitably carriedat Kojonup. I remember when we had thatagitation for the building of the BoyupBrook-Cranbrook railway, I said to some ofthe settlers, "Seeing- that you are all sheep-raising, why do you desire this railway?"They said, "For the purpose of cartingsuper." So, despite what Kojonup maysay, the railway is essential to Kojonup, notonly for the carriage of super but also forthe carting of their wheat. They desirethat wool shall be one of the commoditiesthat can be carried by motor truck. Thewool would be carted from Kojonup to Fre-mantle by road, and the truck owner wouldthen have the right to cart back goods thatare extremely profitable to the railways.The Commissioner of Railways is cartingsuper at .48d. per ton per mile, and wheatalso he carts at a rate that is not profitable.It must be remembered that the small con-cession given in the early days for the cart-ing of super cost the railways about £10,000per year, whereas now it is costing the rail-ways about £160,000 per year. If the Com-missioner of Railways has to do that, and atthe same time make the railways pay, itfollows that he must have the carriage ofthose goods on which profits can be made.If he is to cart only non-payable productssuch as super and wheat, while the motortrucks get the cream of the freight, it meansthat from the point of view of the railwaysthe position is impossible. Therefore I amopposed to the amendment moved by themember for Kittanning.

Sitting suspended from 11.40 pm. to12.15 a.m.

M. WITHERS (Bunbury) [12.20]: 1do not altogether agree to the distance of 15miles covcr-'l by a transport license in themetropolitan area. The Minister spoke ofwhat would happen if the place of busines%

were removed. If the radius of 15 milesfrom the General Post Office were extended,possibly 30 miles would be too great a dis-tance when we take the outer districts intoconsideration. In fact, the distance wouldbe too great. Ever since the TransportHoard came into operation I have had ex-perience of the effect of the 15-mile radiusin my own district. One cannot go roundthe clock for a iS-mile radius from Bun-bury, because the north and the west arebounded by the sea, and it is only possibleto go half way across the clock in the direc-tion of the other two points of the compass.The radius has operated unfairly to peoplewho have established themselves in businessin my district within that particular circle.Speaking on the Address-in-reply, I pointiedto the necessity for something being done toalter the position. I am not at all sure thatthe extension to a SO-mile radius wouldovercome the difficulty. If that could be so,I would be prepared to support Subelause(b). A radius of .30 miles may seem a longway. There are people in my district who,going out from Bunbury, visit the orchar-dists, buy fruit from them, and deliver it inthe district. This is fruit which the orehar-diets cannot scnd to market because it is notof the class that usually goes to the generalmarket. Nevertheless, it is good fruit. Theorchardists cannot get rid of it urnless some-one with a vehicle calls for it and takes itaway. The person who does this businesssells the fruit in the surrounding district topeople who are not in a position to obtainfruit from the markets. By this means theresidents receive a good quality fruit at areasonable price.

Ron. P. D. Ferguson: And get it fresh.Mr. WITHERS: Yes. Because these

orchards are in an area where the truckswould pass almost parallel to railways inseveral directions, the 'board would not conr-sider the granting of transport licenses.To put the fruit on a train would meanthat it would. have to be packed in propercases, carted to the railway siding, trans-ported to a point, and then carted back fordelivery. That would be out of the ques-tion. A man with a run-about calls at theorchard, picks up the fruit in loose cases,takes it out and distributes it. Possiblythe difficulty could be overcome by thisperson moving his place of business. Itshould not be necessary, however, for aman who was carrying on this business

[ASSFIMdBLVt.J

Thug' before the Transport Board wasspoken of to adopt the method, pack uphis traps, and establish himiself in anotherarea. I know of one man who was finedby the court for breaking the law in thisconnection. That man has now gone to thetrouble of licensing three trucks, I think,in three different districts, so that he canoperate themn from different centres. Ithink he'has one license at Buinbury, oneitt Harvey, and one at Collie. These townsbecome his places of business. .It shouldnot be necessary for a man to have to dothat. If the Minister is not prepared toaccept the whole Bill, or to extend thedistance to 30 miles generally, I hope inCommittee some means will he found togive the board power to grant a conces-sion where a condition of this sort arises.When the board members are app~roached,they refer to Section 33 of the Act, andsay, ''Parliament has laid this down, andwe have to abide by it.'' I will say thatwhen the board have had an opportunity toextend a privilege, they have done so. Iknow of one case where they have extendedthe privilege to a person to cart fish. Therewere extenuating circumstances, becausethat particular centre could not get fishon a Friday unless it was carted directfrom the seaboard to the township. Theboard have given this concession after con-siderable agitation on the part of the appli-cant for a license, and on my own part.The board have been generous enough tomieet the situation in that case, but willnot budge for the man who wishes to de-liver fruit. I hope in Committee somemecans will be found to overcome the difl-culty so that the board inay take into con-sideration special circumstances and treatthlens. accordingly.

MR, NORTH (Claremont) [12.28]: Isupport the Bill and endorse the remarksof its sponsor. I am particularly anxiousto have the radius extended from 15 to 30miles. It may in Committee be necessaryto alter the means whereby this end isachieved. The Minister pointed out thatthis would cover too large an area. Thedesire is to enable merchants to delivergoods in certain towns that are a consi-erable distance away from the centre. Itmay not be necessary to include the wholeof the circle embraced in the 30-mileradius if some other means could be foundin Committee to achieve the desired end.

MR. WATTS (Katanning-in reply.)[12.39]: 1 shall not keep members for anyconsiderable time in dealing with the comn-mnts on the measure. I repeat that I donot represent the district of Kojonup,although I am acquainted with the case thepeople there desire to place before theHouse. I ain not pledged to the distanceof the extension proposed in the Bill, andI shall be pleased to accept any reasonableamendment that may be proffered along thelines that have been indicated during thecourse of the debate. As to the appeal, theMinister indicated that there are other dis-tricts beside liojonup that are similarlyaffected and are entitled to the sane con-sideration as Kojonup. I do not think thatthe fact that other districts are affeted-Imentioned one mysef-is any argumentagainst the Bill, rather is it an argument infavour of it. I take it the Minister does notwish districts elsewhere in the State to lab-our wider disabilities that fuarther inquirymight result in removing. If the inquirythat is suggested in the Bill were to takethe formn of an appeal to a magistrate, groodresults might follow. The Minister referredto the fact that there is no appeal from de-cisionas of the Licensing Court or the Arbi-tration Court.

Mr. Warner: Two wrongs do not make ar ig ht.

Mr. WATTS: There is hut little analogybetween an inquiry conducted by the Trans-port Board-I do not for one moment suig-gest that such an inquiry, so far as it goes,is not bona fide--and those conducted .by theLicensing Court or the Arbitration Court.There are essential differences. The pro-ceedings in the licensing Court and theArbitration Court are open to the public.Persons, who have evidence to giv-e, may goto those courts and arrangements can bemade to take their' evidence. Again, thereis the right granted to opposinr- parties tocross-examne witnesses, place before thempoints of 'view not considered in the evi-dence tendered by them, and seek the viewsof those witnesses on the particular pointsso brought to their notice. By that meansthe whole question can be examined pub-licly. Than again the proceedings of thetourts are conducted in a form of an ordin-ary judicial inquiry. Both sides are inexactly the same position regarding the pre-sentation of the facts. Such inquiries areconducted on a very different basis from thatwhich is possible in view of the peculiar con-

[10 DEOEMESS, 1936.] 04

ditions in which the nmembers of the Trans,-port Board have to work. They are obligedto make inquiries ex parte, an~d, to a con-siderable extent, these are one-sided. Thereis iio opportunity for cross-examination'i ofwitnesses, and arguments cannot be eon-ducted on the spot. The business consistsof the examination of ex parte statementsobtained from those anxious either to obtainsoincthing or to prevent something beingdone.

The Minister for Justiee: The membersof the board bare the powers of a RoyalCommission.

Mri- WATTS: If that is so, they have notexercised that power in dealing with thisquestion. If they had done so, the situationmight have been a little better. The mostimportant item, to my mind, is the proposalto include wool in the Third Schedule. TheMinister told us the old story about super-phosphate. I hare always held, and I be-lieve there are strong grounds for thatopinion, that the haulage of super at acheap rate is eFrsentially in the nature of aninsurance policy in the interests of railwayrevenue. In this State, superphosphate hasto be used in large quantities, and, in con-sequence, has to be obtained cheaply. Pro-duction will be greatly limited, and in somedirections cease altogether, if that is notpossible. It is not to be assumed by anymeans that farmers use superphosphate forthe mere pleasure of doing so. It is, usedalmost entirely because they wish to increaseproduction. Without superphosphate, therewould be little wheat or wool to be cartedby rail or road, particularly in the agricul-tural districts. Without wool and wheatbeing produced in fairly large quantities andin increasingly large quantities per acre,profits cannot be augmented. Without theuse of superphosphate, there would be littleneed for agricultural machinery, and lessneed to purchase requirements in otherdirections. It will be seen, therefore, thatthere is a definite case to be made out, notso mnuch from the standpoint of the usesof superphosphate, as from the point ofview of an insurance policy for the revenueof the State. In those circumstances, thatphase decidedly must be considered in rela-tion to this question. Why should thewool producers be in any worse positionthan other primary producers whose produc-tion is exempt from the third paragraph ofthe Third Schedulet There is no reason at

alt, except the one that has been advanced thatwool is hauled over the railways at a veryprofitable freight rate. I do not suggestthat if the Bill becomes law, all wool willbe carted by road. M1any of the farmerswhv~o would have to cart their wool over long-distances on their own trucks-the Bill pro-vides that only their own commercial vehicles,can be used for that purpose--would notconsider doing so for one moment, and, inconsequence, many of the producers both inthe N-orth and the South will diespatch theirwool by rail. The Bill metely seeks to meteout an equal measure of justice to the wool-grow'%erls as has been extended to other pri-mary producers. It is because this is theMost important phase that I have taken sometime both when moving the second readingof the Bill, and again to-night in replying tothe debate, to explain the attitude I adoptregarding that question. I hope the Housewill agree to the second reading so that thevarious clauses may be discussed in Com-mittee.

Question put and a division taken withthe following result:

AyesNoes

A tie

Mr. BorisMrs . Cardel]-OlivcMr. floustMr.' FergusonMr. HIDMr. KeenanMr. LathamMr. MannMr. MotiartyMr. North

Mr. CollierMr. CoverleyMr. CronsMr. FoxMr. HawkeMr. HegneyMiss9 HolmenMr. t1ambertMr. MarshallAir. Millington

20

20

Ats.Mr. Patrick

r Mr. SenipsonMr. SewardMr. ShearnMr. ThornMr. 'WarnerMr. W ntlsMr. W elshMr. WithersMr. Doney

Noug.Mr. MunsieMr. aPhaeiMr. HodoredsMr. SlesmanMr. F. C. L. SmithMr. StyatsMr. TonkinMr. WillcoccAr. WiseMr. Wilson

(Tcller.)

Mr, SPEAKER: The voting being equal,I give my casting vote in favour of the Noes.

Question thus negatived; Bill defeated.

BILD-APPROPRIATION.

Returned from the Council without amend-ient.

2641

2642 [ASSEMBLY.)

BILL,-LOTTERIES (CONTROL) ACTAMENDMENT.

Councils Message.Message from the Council received and

read notifying that it did not insist uponits amendments made to the Bill.

BILL,-AGRICULTURAL BANS ACTAMENDMENT (No. 2).

Second Reading, Debate adjourned.

Order of the Day read for the resumptionf rom the previous day of the debate on thesecond reading.

THE PREMIER (Hon. J. C. Willcock-Geraldton) [12.4-5]: 1 move -

That the debate be adjourned.

Motion put and a division taken with thefollowing result-

Ayes .. . .20

Noes .. . .. L

Majority for

Mr. GrierMr- CoverleyMr, CrossMr. FoxMr. HawkeMr. RameyMiss HolmanMr. MarshallMr. MillingtonMr. Munale

Mr. DoyleMrs. OardeiI.OiverMr. DoustMr. Ferguson'Mr. HillMr. KeenanMr. MannMr. McLartyMr. North

ArES.Mr. NoisesMr. LambertMr. TroyMr. NeedhamnMr. Johnson

.. 2

Aria.Mr. RodorecaMr. Siesman.Mr. F a. L. SmithMr. StyantsMr. TonkinMr. WilockMr. WilsonMr. WiseA]ir. WithersMr. Raphael

L (TellerNes.

Mr. PatrickMr. SampsonMr. RewardMr. StearnMr. ThornMr. WarnerMr. WattsMr. WalshMr. Dcney

(Teller.)

Mrn . BokaMr. LathamMr. McDonaldMr. J. -,.Smith

Motion thus passed.

BILLr-FINANCIAL EMERGENCY TAXASSESSMENT ACT AMENDMENT(No. 2).

Second Reading.

Debate resumed from an earlier stage ofthe sitting.

-HON. N. EENAN (Nedlands) [12.46]:There is no reason to delay the proceedings

because the Bill does not in any way alterthe position, Therefore, I do not offer any-opposition to the Bill.

Question put and passed.Bill read a second time.

In Committee,Bill passed through Committee without de-

bate, reported without amendment and thereport adopted.

Third Reading.Bill read a third time and transmitted to

the Council.

BILL--DISTESS FOR RENT

ABOITION.

Coincil's Amendment.

Bill returned from the Council with aschedule of four amnendments which werenow considered.

In Committee.

'Ar. Hegney in the Chair; Mr. Cross incharge of the Bill.

No. 1. Clause 6: Delete the words"weekly or monthly.''

Mr. CROSS: I move-'That the amendment be agreed to subject

to the insertion of the words ''or lessee"tafter ''tenant.'

All the four amendments have been madeby the Council to Clause 6 and the objectof the aluendmnents is to speed up the pro-cess of eviction. While in ordinary cir-cumstances I would not be agreeable fortwo minutes to accept the amendments, If ear that unless we do agree to them, theBill will he lost. What I set out to do inthe first place was to break down an out-rageous practiee that had beeni carried onfor nearly a thousand years. We can agreefor the time being to the amendments madeby another place and see how they work.Unless the landlords operate this clausein a reasonable manner in the next sixmonths, we can later on bring in an amend-ing, Bill.

Mr. THORN: Is the hon. member inorder in moving to agree to the amendmentmade by another place contingent on afurther amnendment9' The hon. memrber isimposing a-condition under which he willaccept the amendment from the Concil.

2642

[10 DEcCMBER, 1936.J 64

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member isquite in order in moving, to accept theCouncil's amendment subject to a furtheramendment.

Mr. M1ARSHALL: What is the use ofmnembers voting on the blind on an amend-ment submitted by another placel Whateffect will the amendment have? In otherwords, what are we going to vote for?What are we doing!

Hon. P. D. Ferguson: There has been noexplanation.

Mr. MARSHALL- I am not prepared tovote for the motion until we understandwhat we are doing.

Mir. CROSS: Your amendments harebeen made to Clause 6, three more of whichhave yet to be considered. Under the newprocess, when two days' notice has beengiven to the tenant, he may be summonedin the police court. Within seven da 'ys themarl must appear in the police court toshow why he should not be ejected. Thiswill expedite the hearing by the court ascompared with the local court procedurepreviously proposed. I prefer to accept theamendment rather than lose the Bill.

Mr. DONEY: Surely our last opportun-itv to add the words " and lessee" was onthe third reading! We cannot add newmatter on a -motion to agree to the Coun--ail 's amendment.

Mr. MARSHALL: I shall vote againstthe motion. Although the bailiffs could notbe put in to seize the tenants'I goods andchattels, the facilities for evicting a ten-ant would be expedited and the landlordcould get judgment and sell the chattelsjust the same.

Question put and passed; the Council'samendment, as amended, agreed to.

No. 2. Clause 6: After the word "ten-ancy'' where it appears in lines 16 and17, insert the words "or lease."

On motion by Mr. Cross, the foregoingamendment was agreed to.

No. 3. Clause 6: Delete all the wordsafter "and," in line 18, down to and in-cluding the figures "1904" in line 20.

Mr. CROSS: The effect of the amend-mnent. would be to take the process from thelocal court and bring it under the JusticesAct, whieh provides a speedier process. Imore-



No. 4. Clause 6.-Delete the words "suchaforesaid Act;' in line 21, and substitute"the Justices Act, 1902-32."

Mir. CROSS: This amendment is conse-quential. I move-



Resolutions reported, the report adopted,and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.

BILL -STATE TRANSPORT 00-ORDIN-

ATION ACT AMVENDMENT (No. 2).

Second Reading Defeated.

Debate resumed from the 4th November.

THE MINSTER FOR WORKS (Hon.H. Mfillingtou-Mt. Hawthorn) [1.10] : Ihare often heard of one-clause Bills but thisis a one-word Bill, the word "honey" alonebeing involved. It is desired to declare thathoney in a container is a perishable com-modity. I will read a portion of the FirstSchedule to show where the Bill proposes toinsert the word "honey." It would read-"Solely for the carriage of livestock, poultry,fruit, vegetables, honey, dairy produce andother perishable commodities." The Trans-port Board hold that crude honey is aperishable, but that having been placed in acontainer it is not a perishable any morethan are jams, tinned mnilk, and many othercommodities that arc pieced on the market.Therefore it would be inconsistent andridiculous to amend the First Schedule asdesired by the Bill. To show that the Trans-port Board are reasonable, -they have alreadyagreed that honey in its crude state is aperishable commodity, andr have decided thatunrefined honey may be conveyed from theplace where it is produced to another place.It has been further agreed that crude honeymay be transported to any particular re-finery, arid that on each return journey fromnthe refinery not more than one drum ofpetrol end all supplies necessary for useby the apiarists in connection with the pro-duction of honey may be transported.Thus full consideration has been given tothat aspect. Even if the word "honey" wereinserted in the paragraph, heekeepers would1be no better off than they are at present..

2643

2644 [ASSEMBLY.]

Hon. P. D. Ferguson: Yes, they would be.The MINISTER FOR WORKS: They

would not. They could transport the comn-mnodity only from the place where it wasproduced to another place. Whatever thebon. member may have had in his mind, thatis the position. The concession is merely forthe carriage of those commodities front theplace where they are p)roduced to any otherplace. That is all that would he possible ifthe Bill were passed.

Hon. C. G. Lathami: Then let us pass it.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: TheTransport Board have gone further, andagreed to give favourable consideration toany application that may be made for theright to convey refined honey by road fromany refinery established in a country townto a wholesale distributing centre in Perth,and on the return journey to convey to theapplicant's place, of business supplies neces-sary for the refining of honey,including empty containers and a limitedsupply of petrol. Everybody wants to beatthe railways in the matter of transport ofpetrol. The board will give sympatheticconsideration to any reasonable applicationthat may he made, but the board cannot for amoment admit that honey refined and placedin containers in a marketable form can bedescribed as a perishable. What the bee-keepers originally asked for was that theybe permitted to use their own vehicles totransport honey from any place in WesternAustralia to any other place in WesternAustralia, and on the return journey tocarry anything they required for domesticuse or the production of honey. The boardcould not go so far as that. A refinery hasbeen established at York by McNamaraBrothers. The cost of transport by rail toPerth is approximately £1 per ton, equal to3d. per ttn per wile. It would cost morethan that to cart by motor truck from therefinery to Perth. There is also a refineryin Perth. Honey in crude form can be con-veyed by road to these two, or to any otherrefineries. Because McNamiara Brothersclaimed that they would be placed at a dis-advantage if compelled to rail refined honeyto Perth, the board agreed to permit thatto be done, but will not allow McNamaraBrothers to carry back unlimited suppliesof petrol, groceries, and other goods. Thatwould not be fair to traders in the town,tvho are compelled to obtain all supplies byTaiu.

Hon. C. G. Latham: I do not think itwas a matter of unlimited supplies.

The 'MINISTER FOR WORNCS: On the16th September last tile Transport Boardaddressed the following letter to Mr. J. S.Teesdale, General President of the PrimaryProducers* Association, clarifying the posi-tion of the board and proving, I think, tobon. members that the board, are not in-cl1ined to be hlard on primlary producers:-

I refer to your interview withl my board,inl company witih Mr. J. M~yers, on1 the 4th in-stant, regarding the transport of hioney' andsupplies for beekeepers. Prior to that inter-view my board had agreed to issue licenses toapiarists for the following purposes: (a) Forthe transport of bees, hives, and necessary equip-meat from place to place.

MrI. Sampson: That is giving nothing;that is provided for in the Act.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: Thmelion, member's amendment merely proposesto permit cartage from the place of produc-tion in the bush; so that the board's lettergives more than his amendment suggests.The letter proceeds-(b) For the transport of crude honey from theapiary to the particular refinery to wllieh sup-plies are forwarded. (c) For the transporton the return journey from the refinery of notmore than one drum of petrol and suppliesnecessary for use by the beekeeper in the pro-duction of honey. In addition to the above,the hoard basi directed me to inform you thatthey will give favourable consideration to anyapplication that may be made for the right toconvey refined honey by road from any refine-yestablished in a country town to a wholesaledistributing centre in Perth-

That is very fair.

Hon. P. fl. Ferguson: What does "favour-able consideration" meant Why does Dotthe board grant the right?

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: Theletter goes en--and on the return journey to convey to theapplicant's place of business supplies neces-sary for the production or relining of honey,including empty containers and a. limited supplyof petrol. Any apiarist who desires sncb alicense should woke formal application by com-pleting and returning one of the attachedapplication forms, setiting out thereon the ]n-tality of the refinery and the distributing depotas well as the area over which hie desires toconvey his hives and equipment.

The letter is signed by the secretary of tlleTransport Board. From what I can gather,that letter is satisfactory.

Mr. Sampson: From whom did yougather that?

[10 DECEMfiER, 1iq36.] 2645

The MINISTER FOR WORKS; I mean,satisfactory to the primary producers.

Mr. Sampson: Not satisfactory to thebeekeepers.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: I wouldnot support the board if I believed theywere dealing harshly with the producers.The further they go in gi ving- concessions asto carting produce to market, the greater isthe demand for permission to cart backsupplies and materials. That is why theboard has to resist. It is not the businessonly of this side of the House to protect therail ways. Protection o~f the railway systemis the be-nil and end-all of the Act. I as-sume that the successful working of therailways is a matter of importance to theState, and a matter of supreme imp)ortanceto the primary producers. That is the viewwhich I found was taken by the primary pro-duiceis assembled in meeting at Bunbury.It is perfectly well known that the Commnis-sioner of Railways has been able to grantrebates to the extent of about £C150,000, andthe railways are in an immeasurably betterfinancial position than they were. We mustkeep before us the great issue. If we nibblehere, there, and everywhere, we destroy thework of the board. The board has met thebeekeepers to the fullest extent in regard tocrude honey, and largely ini regard to honeyin containers, Why a Bill should be intro-duced to direct the board on a tuppenny-bal-penny matter such as this, I do notunderstand, floes not the board give dueconsideration to the primary producers? Ifnot, there would be something to be said infavour of the Bill. Let me point out whatis the constitution of thie board. There isa Government official, Mr. Mont, a manhighly capable of administering an Act andof understanding the meaning of the Actand also his job. Then there is a repre-sentative of rural industries, and a repre-sentative of city industries. The board isentirely non-political. There is no Labourrepresentative on the board. Polities entersinto it only when some tikering measure isbrought before the House and made a politi-cal issue- I suppose we shall have a divi-sion entirely on party lines.

Hlon. C. G-. Latham: What do You thinkwe are here for?

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: In thismatter I think nmembers opposite are hereto protect the board. That is is much the

respoinsihility of the Opposition side as ofthis side.

Hom. C. G-. Latham: You give way allright when it suits you to do so. You giveway by remitting fines or releasing offenders.

The' MINISTER FOR WORKS: Herethe action of the board is being questionedby interested parties, purely for politicalreasons, and tuppenny-hialf-penny reasonsat that.

Hon. P. D. Ferguson: You are not herefor political reasons, are you?

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: WhenI do use p~olitical influence, I will not useit for the sake of a pot of honey.

Mr. Thorn: You might use your influenceto put iii a big sewerage scheme. A pot ofhoney means a lot to us.

The MINISTER FOR WORKS: All thistinkeringr with the board's administrationmeans tht in the opinion of some membersopposite the board is incompetent. Inmy opinion, the board has done its jobfearlessly, and to such effect that the Acthas produced the results we hopcd for.Naturally, someone must get hurt. It wasintendedf that the railways should be pro-tected. There is no reason for the Bill.

[The Deputy Speaker took the Chair.3

MR,. THORN (Toodyay) [1.28 a.m.] : TheMinister has made a very good case foraccepting this small amending Bill. He asmuch as stated that we get more from theboard than we ask for. Thea why cannotthe Minister assent to the Bill?

The Minister for Works: The Bill is amotion of no-confidence in the board.

Mr. THORN: Honey is separated fromthe comb by a separator, just as milk isseparated. Honey is not a manufacturedarticle. To compare it with such things asjam is ridiculous. Jam is definitely manu-factured. Sugar is added to fruit, and thefruit is boiled, and manufactured into jam.It might as well be said that the bees getthe honey' in the 'bush and that in its crudeform honey is manufactured in the bush.Similarly it might be said that milk is beingmanufactured in the field by the cow. Honeyis definitely a primary product. The Min-ister makes a big noise about a small thingthe primary producers are asking for.

The Minister for Health: What abouttinned milk?

IMr. THORN: That is a manufacturedarticle.

2646 [ASSEMBLY.]

The Minister for Health: Honey is a pro-cessed article.

Mr. THORN: I am a primary producer,and have bandied honey. The comb isplaced in the separator, and there the honeyis separated from the comb. How honeycan he described as a manufactured articlehas me beaten. The member for Swan (Mr.Sampson) is asking for a reasonable amend-ment. According to the Minister's ownstatements, nothing will he given away ifthe Hill passes.

The Minister for Health: As far as pro-cessed honey is concerned, yes.

Mr. THORN: I do not know why theMinister makes that point; it is so small. Allhe is going to do is to force the bee farmerin the country to bring his honey in a crudeform to have it separated in the city. Thatis what the fanner is asked to do. Insteadof separating the honey on his own pro-perty he will be forced to bring it into thecity.

The Minister for Works: Not so.The Minister for Health: It is nonsense.Mr. THORN: It is not; it is a fact. If

the honey producer wants to cart his ownhoney he can cart it in in a crude form andbring it to the city and have it separated.Why not let him separate it on his ownfarm? The Minister made a mountain outof a molehill and the least he can do is toagree to this amendment. There has beena lot of discussion in this Chamber abouthow wonderfully we have been treated inrespect to measures we have brought for-ward to assist the man on the land. In myopinion anything we have brought forwardhas been dumped well and truly, and mostlyon points of order.

The Minister for Works: We have passedan Act and now you are trying to break itdown.

Mr. THORN : No, I am not. You intro-duced the matter of the importance of theTransport Board and the necessity for assist-ing our railways. There was anothermeasure before the House this evening whichI admit was a little dangerous. It would robthe railways; hut this means very little tothe railways. According to the Minister'sown statement, he could easily agree to theamendment and give us one victory beforethe session closes.-

The Minister for Health: We haven't hadone victory yet on this side.

IMr. THORN: It has becen one long victoryfor you. As I said before, we have intro-duced several measures from this side ofthe House to assist the man on the land, andevery measure which has come from this.side of the House has, been dumped.

The Minister for Health: And every meas-ure which has come from here has beendumped in another place 0

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!Mr. THORN: I do not want to upset the

Minister.The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If the hon.

member will address the Chair he will geton better.

Mr. THORN: I am doing my best. All Iask in conclusion is that the Minister willreconsider the matter. It is up to him todo so. I ask the Minister to agree to thissmall amendment requested by the memberfor Swan, in the interests of the bee-farm-ing community.

HON. 0. G. LATHAM (York) [1.35]:The Minister emphasised that the Act wasintroduced to protect the railways. Thatis not right.

The Minister for Works: It is.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: The point was

never made when the Act was introduced.The Minister for Works: That is the

most remarkable statement I have heard inthis House.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: Division (2) ofthe Act, Section 10, states-

Subject to this Act, the board may of itsown volition, or under the direction of theMinister shafl-(a) make investigations andinquiries into transport matters. In makingsuch investigations and inquiries the boardshall give consideration, among other factors,to all or any of the following factors, namoely: -(i) The question of transport generally in thelight of service to the community; (ii) the needsof the State for economic developmen ct; (iii)the industrial conditions under which all formsOf transport are conducted; (iv) the impartialand equitable treatment of all conflicting in-terests; (b) be empowered to demand and oh-tain information relating to matters connectedwith the internal transport of the State, in-cluding transport controlled by the Crown orany agency of the Grown.Having that knowledge, the Board were givenpower to issue licenses. As a fact, it isknown that the railways have considerablybenefited by this Act. I do not think thatthere was great opposition to the intro-duction of the Act. We reallised as theMinister did that certain unfair competi-

[10 DECEMBER, 1936.] 2647

tion was being entered into with the rail-ways and we tried to rectify it. In theproposal submitted by the member forSwan there is a different issue altogether.We are importing into this State a bigquantity of South Australian honey and itcomes on to the market much more cheaplythan the price at which we can get ourhoney into the city. While we cannot pre-vent South Australian honey comiug here,we can give our people equal opportunitiesof marketing.

Mr. Withers: Do you know how muchhoney is stored in Western Australia?

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: Not much.Mr. Withers: A hundred and fifty tons.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: The great dangeris that it does encourage centralisation. Itis probable that hone 'y will be produced ingreater quantities in the South-West thananywhere else. From information that hasreached us, the karri blossom produces thebest honey in Australia.

Mr. Withers: They are saying that theycannot get the price because so much honeyis stored.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: So much honey isbrought here and is under-selling ours. Itdoes iiot matter what we say, both sidesof the House know that money speaks alllwiguages and if women can buy an articlefor a penny less-even though they have tospend 3'd. on a tram fare towill do so. I am worried byif a man desires to establishBunibury to refine his honey,to send the honey by rail toestablished himself in Perthencouraging eentralisation. Ia trifling matter, but it deals

buy it-theythe fact thata refinery inhe will havePerth. If hehe would bethink this iswith an ex-

port commodity. MeNainara Bros. are ex-porting a big quantity of honey from thisState. I expect the Minister knows that.

The Minister for Works: They are al-lowed to bring it to Perth.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: They bring thehoney here and export it; they do notwant to send it through the warehouse hereat all, they want to export it completely.

The Minister for Health: If they tooknothing back, I do not think the boardwould object.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: The board havealready agreed to give them a limited quan-tity of petrol. They are satisfied with thatbut they complain that they are compelled

to pay a license fee, and that they shouldbe excluded.

The Minister for Works: In a ease likethat they charge a very moderate licensef ee.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: The point is thatif we include the word ''honey'' in theschedule, these people will be able to bringtheir honey to Perth and sell without hav-ing to get a license. We are all anxiousto find auother article that we can export.If we can export honey a certain amountof employment will be provided. All thetins are manufactured here, the printing isdone here, and the cases are put up here.It means providing work and it does notmean much for the Transport Hoard. It ison that account that I ask the Minister to'include these words. I am not offeringany argument against the board, the mem-bers of which I think are doing a reason-ably good work.

The Minister for Railways: You havehad all the concessions you have asked for.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: They are chargeda license fee.

The Minister for Railways: It is nominal.Hon. C. G. LATHAM: How much?The Minister for Railways: I don't know.lHon. C. G-. LATHAM: The Minister

makes statements and then admits that hedoesn't know the facts. As a matter of fact,ii) one case it. is £C1 149. and in another caseLi 9s.

The Minister for Railways: What effectwill that have on- themV

Hon, C. G. LATHAM: Every penny piececounts when you have a keen Competitor likethe South Australian honey producer. Everylittle mickle added tends to cripple them.

The Minister for Railways: And the rail-ways, too.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: If you prefer therailways and not industries-

The Minister f9r Works: You can't haveindustries without railways.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: And you can'thave railways without industries.

The Minister for Works: What theLeader of the Opposition says is true; whatI say is true.

Hon. C. G. LATHAM: I think if theMinister and I got together quietly we wouldbe able to come to a satisfactory arrange-ment.

The Minister for Works: You miight urgeyour friend to withdraw this amendment.

2648 [ASSEMBLY.]

* Hoin.C. 0. LATHAM: No. I believe theMinister is anxious enough to encourage an-.other industry if it is possible, but SouthAustralian honey is procurable at a cheaperrate than that at which our own people canprovide local honey.

The Minister for Works: That is not dueto any disability imposed by the TransportBoard.

Hon. C. 0. LATH AM: If that is the ease,why not accept this small amendment! It isnot going to hurt the Minister or interferewith anything. It would give these peoplesoine encouragement. These people have toface all sorts of difficulties, losses fromforest fires, and so on.

The Minister- for Health:- This amnendment,to the Transport Act would not help that.

Hon. C. 0. LATHAM: I am not suggest-ing that it, would; I sin, telling the Mlinisterwhat the industry is up against, and if wecould relieve them I wvould be glad.

MR. SAMPSON (Swan-in reply)[1.45] : I regret that this has come on -usat Soi late a stage of the session, but it wasintroduced on the 22nd September, so Ihave been by no means to blamne. In para-graph 3 of the Third Schedule we get thewords "solelyr for thle carriage of livestock,fru it, vegetAhles, dairy produce, wheat orother perishable commnodi ties." I uider-stand the objection of the Minister is thathoney is niot a perishable commodity. Theworld authority on honey is "The BeeWorld" which is published in London. Inan issue dated October 1936 we find this-

The average grocer is reluctant to buy honey(except on sale or return) because it so fre-

qulentlyT spoils on his bands and becomes un-saleable. Jars of ]honey which have leakedand soiled their labels or cracked or made asticky and dust-retaining mess on bis shelvesor frosted heavily (so that the ignorant cus-tomer suspects him of selling adulterated pro-duce, increased in -bulk by the addition ofsugar) are all spoilt from the grocer's point ofview.So it is a perishable commnodity. Had thisbeen put in the Bill when the Bill originallyreached the Chamber, not a word of objec-tion would have been raised, and we wouldnot have had the pathetic appeal of theMinister when he implied that the raiwayswill be in a state of great difficulty if beekeepers are given the same privileges asare given to other prnb-ry producers. Anattempt has been made to point out that, thenectar having- been gathered by the bees, and

delivered at some, point, the fact that it hasbeen delivered there and something done tothe honey places it outside the pale. Theseine thing applies in respect of apples.They are picked in the orchards and trans-ported to the community packing shedswhere they are cleaned, graded, packed andthen transported, without any question ofviolation of the Transport Act, either to thewharves or to the market. That is an im-portant point and there should be no at-tempt to prevent the apiarists receiving theconsideration they otherwise would receive.Now wve are told that the board have directedthat they will give favourable considerationto any application for the right to conveyhoney. The unfortunate bee-keepers are to goand see the board on every occasion and dosomething, which is colloquially termed "dogdlancing" before they can get this pennission.The Minister says they will be given some spe-cial consideration in respect of the return, Thebee-keepers ask for no more than is in theAct;I for the Act provides that they shall hegiven. consideration the same as otherprimary producers. The McNanmara Brothershave been mentioned. They have made goodprogress and have won prizes at Wemnbleyand in other parts of England. The Min-ister himself said to me that if McNamaraBros. did not bother nothing would be heardof it. That is not so. I have here a list ofthe apiarists concerned, as follows:-

McNamiara Bros., York.A. Cook, Dewar 's Pool.Mr. Lloyd, Toodyay.J. E. Myers, Baker's Hill.IT. Noonant, Dale, via Beverley.W. Folland, Ratanning.Coad & Son, PoronAgorup.Worth. Porongorup, Mt. Barker.J. E. Myers, Denmark.L. j. skipper, MNt. Barker.Q. Langley, Mt. Barker.

Apart from the value of the honey is thevalue of the bee as an a pollinating agent. 'Itis perhaps the most valujable agent that thefruitgrower and the grower of clovens andother fodder grasses have.

The Minister for Works: The bee attendsto his own transport.

[The Speaker resumed the Chair.1

Mfr. SAM-.PSON: Yes, he is a wonderfulinsect. Even the pumpkins growing atOsborne Park and - Wunneroo-all thesethings are influenced by the bee, Is it notthen our duty to do all that we can to en-courage the Industry!' Why should we object

2648

[10 DECEMBER, 1036.] 24

to giving these primary producers the sameconsideration as other primary. producersreceive? In California, one of the greatfruitgrowing centres of the world-

Mr. Hegney: Did you say California orKatamunda?

Air. SAMPSON: I said California. Thebee is the greatest apollinator that theprimary producer has to depend upon. Weappreciate the courteous letter sent out bythe secretary of the Transport Board as towhat the board will do if the beekeepers willcome along and make application. to them.But this should not be the result of a specilvisit to the Transport Board; it should bethe sighit of the beekeepers, just as it is theright of the firuitgrowers; and other primalryprodncers. The Minister made quite aefeature of his reference to honey being aperishable commodity. Yet in the very para-graph wheat is included.

The Minister for Works: You are mnis-reading the clause.

Mr. SAiNPSON: It says "various perish-ables and wheat." It does not say that wheatis a perishable, but it is not difficult to provethat it is so. Everything is perishable; eventhe apparently solid Minister for Employ-mrent would conme into that category. Thereis every reason why the beekeeper shouldhave the right to transport his honey. I haveno desire to hold up the House. The An-ister himself said the Bill was an example ofbrevity. 1 do0 nof'want the Transport Boardto give this permission as an act of grace,for the beekeepers should have it as a rightby virtue of the fact that they are theprimary producers of a perishable corn-tuodity. I will leave the matter in the handsof members and I hope the beekeepers willbe given this slight encouragement. It is anindustry that it is difficult to make a livingout of.

Ron. P. D3. Ferguson: How many arethere in this industry!

Mr. SAMPSON1%: There are -several thou-sand people keeping bees, but few of themdepend entirely on the industry. The timewill come when Western Australia will pro-duce much more honey than it does to-day,so it is our duty to encourage that industry.

Question put aud a division taken with thefollowing result:-

Ayes . .. . .. 17Noes . .. - .. 20

Majority against

Mrir. Cardeli OliverMr. DouetMr. FergusonMr. HillMr. Lathe=Mr. MannMr. AMeIartyM r. NorthAlr. Patrick

M r. CorerleyM r. CrossAlir. poxMr. HawkeMr. HegneyMiss HolmanMr. LambertMr. MareballMr. MillingtonMr. Munsle

AYES.M r. SampsonMr. SewardMr. Shearn

11r. Than.iMr. WatrnerM r. WattsMr. WelshMr. Dooe7,

(Teller.)NOElS.

Mr. RaphaelMr. Rodtu reds,Mr. SleemanMr. F. 0. 1- Smith14r. Styanta,Mr. Ton kinMr. WIlieckMr. WiseAir. WithersMr. Wilson

(Teller.)Question thus negatived; Bill defeated.

Sitting suspended fromt 2.3 to 3.40 rj~.t

BILL-riNANOIAL EMERGENCY TAXASSESSMENT ACT AMENDMENT(No. 2).

Returned f rom the Council without ameand-inent.

BILLr-PETROLEUM.

Coulwils message.esaefrom the Council received and

read, notifying that it did niot insist uponits amendmrents.

BILLu-PEARING CREWS ACCIDENTASSURANCE FUND.

Council's Further Nessege.Message from. the Council notifying that

it continued to insist on its two amend-mneats, to which the Assembly had disagreed,now considered.

In Commit tee.Mr. Sleemian in the Chair;, the Minister

for Agriculture in charge of the Bill.The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:

I move-That thia Assembly continue to disagree to

the amxendments made by the ouncil.

Question put and passed.Resolution reported, and the report

adopted.

Assembly's Request for Conference.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Imove-

That the Council be requested to grant acon ference on their insisted-upon. amendments,an~d that the mannagers for the Assembly be

2649

2650 [ASSEMBLY.]

tile 110on. C. G. Latham, Mr. Coverley and themiover.

Question put and passed, and a messageaccordingly transmitted to the Council.

BILL-TRADE DESCRIPTIONS ANDFALSE ADVERTISEMENTS.

Council's Message.

Message from the Council received andread notifying that it did not insist uponamendments 15 and 17 but insisted uponamnendments 9, 11, and 19; that it ngreedto the further amendment made by the As-semubly on its original amendment 20 subjectto the further amendment as set out in theschedule annexed; and that it disagreed tothe further amendment made by the Assem-bly to amendment 10 for the reasons set outin the schedule annexed.

No. 0. Clause 8: Subelause (4), (a), (i),page 6:-Delete the words "all inspector"iii line .37 and substitute the words "theMinister."

No. i1. Clause 8: Subelause (4) (b) (i),page 7 :-Insert after the word "section"~ inline 15 the words :-"such warning to be inwriting signed by the Minister and deliveredat the place of business of the printer."

No. 19. Newv Clause:-Add a new clauseafter Clause 23, to stand as Clause 24, asfollows:

24. This Act shall continue in forceuntil the thirty-first day of December,1938, and no longer.On motions by the Minister for Employ-

ment, the foregoing amendments were againnot agreed to.

No. 20. Schedule :-Add the followingitems to the Schedule.

"Clothing and materials for clothingmade wholly or partially of wool."

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT:I move-

That the further amendment be not agreedto.

Question put and passed; Council's fur-ther amendment not arced to.

No. 10. Delete the words "the Minister"in lines 3 and 4 and insert in lieu thereofthe words "an inspector."

Delete the words "twelve hours before thedate of publication" in lines 5 and 6 and in-sert in lieu thereof the words "eight hoursbefore the usual time of publication."

Delete the word "twenty-four" in the lasttwo lines and insert in lieu thereof the word"sixteen."

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMIENT:I move-

That the Assembly insists onl its amendmentto thle Council's amendment.

Question put and passed;amendment to the Council'ssisted on.

Resolutions reported, theand a message accordinglytile Council.

the Asserubly~samendment in-

report adoptedtransmitted to

BILL-DISTRESS FOR RENTABOLITION.

Council's Message.Message from the Council received and

read notifying that it had agreed to theamendment -made by the Assembly to amend-went No. 1 made by the Council.

Sitting suspended from, .3.50 to 8 a.m,.

BILL-PEARLING CREWS ACCIDENTASSURANCE FUND.

Council's further Message.

Message from the Council received andread notifying that it 'had agreed to the re'-quest for a conference, had appointed theChief Secretary, Hon. G. AV. Miles and Hon.H. S. W. Parker as managers, the Presi-dent's room as the place of holding the con-ference, and the time forthwith.

BILL-ABORIGINES ACTAMENDMENT.

Council's Message.Message from the Council received

and read notifying that it had agreedto amendments Nos. 6, 11 to 15 in-clusive, 19, 25, 3i, 3.3 and 34, madeby the Assembly and had disagreed toamendments Nos. 1 to 5 inclusive, 7 to 10inclusive, 16 to 18 inclusive, 20 to 24 inclu-sive, 26 to 30 inclusive, 32 and 35, for thereasons set forth in the schedule annexed.

In Committee.Mr. Sleeman in the Chair; the Minister

for Agriculture in charge of the Bill.The MINISTER, FOR AGRICULTURE:

I move-That the Assembly insists on the amend-

mieats disagreed to by the Legislative Council.

[10 DECEVRER, 1936.] 2651

Question Jput and passed.Resolution reported, the report adopted

and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.


Counicil's Further Message.

Message from the Council received andread notifying that it continued to insist onits amendments Nos. 9, 11 and 19, insistedon the alternative amendments to its originalamendment No. 20, and continued to dis-agree with the Assembly's further amend-ment to amendment No. 10.

Assembly's request for Conference.

Mr. Sleeman in the Chair; the Ministerfor Employment in charge of the Bill.

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMHENT:Imove-

That the Council be requested to grant aconference on the amendments insisted uponby the Council, the managers for the Assemblyto he Mr. Watts, Mr. Tonkin, and the mover.

Question put and passed, and a mess-age accordingly returned to the Council.

Siting suspended from 8.10 a. m. to 3.50 a.a;.


Council's Further Message.

Message from the Council received andread notifying that it had agreed to theAssembly's request for a conference on theamendments insisted on by the Council anddisagreed to by the Assembly, and hadappointed Honl. WV. J. Mann, Hon. H. V.Piesse, and Honl. E. H. Gray as managersfor the Council, the Chief Secretary's roomas the place of meeting, and the time forth-with.


Council's Request for Conference.

Message from the Council received andread requesting a conference on the amend-ments insisted on by the Assembly, andnotifyring that at such conference the

Council would be represented by threemanagers.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I1 move-

That the conference requested by the Cocas-oil be agreed to, that the Holl. C. G. Latham,Mr. Coverloy, and the mover be appointedmnagers for the Assembly, and that theSpeaker's room be the place of meeting, andthe time 10 am.

Question putl and passed.

Sitting suspenlded from 8.57 acm. to4.20 p.m.

BILL-PEARLING CREWS ACCIDENTASSURANCE FUND.

Conference Managers' Report.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:I desire to report that the managers metiii conference and failed to arrive at anagreement.


Con ference Managers' Report.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:The managers met inl conference and haveagreed to the following report:-

No. 1. Clause 2.-The following wasagreed to:-

Insert a further subparagraph afterthe words "who is" at the end of para-graph (h) of the definition of "Native"in Clause 2 of the Bill:-

I. A quadroon under twenty-oneyears of age wvho neither associateswith or lives substantiall 'y after themanner of the class of persons men-tioned in paragraph (a) in this defini-tion unless such quadroon is orderedby a magistrate to he classed as a nativeunder this Act.

No'. 2. Clause 2. The following wasagreed to:-

Strike out subparagraph (ii) of para-graph (b) of the definition in Clause 2 ofthe Bill and substitute the following--

"(ii) A person of less than quad-roon blood who was born prior to the31st day of December, 1936, unless suchperson expressly applies to be broughtunder this Act and the MinisterConsents."

2652 [ASSEMBL'Y.j

No. 3. Clause 5.-The following amend-ment was agreed to, namely, that the pro-posed new proviso inserted by the Legisla-tive Assembly to Subsection f. of proposednew Section 3 (a) be not insisted nit

No. 4. Clause 5.-The managers dis-agreed to the amendment striking out Sub-section 2 of proposed new Section 3 (a) butagreed on the following amendment:-

After the word "person" insert thewords "who was born prior to the 31stday of December, 1936, and who is."

No. 5. Clause 6.-The managers agreedto the amendment.

No. 7. Clause 11.-The managers agreedthat the amendment be not insisted on.

No. 8. Clause 12.-The managers agreedthat the amendment be not agreed to hutthat the following amendment ho agreedto:-

In parag-raph (b) of proposed new Sec-tion 15A (Clause 12) strike out the words"ruse such force as may be necessary to"and substitute the words "use such mneansas may be necessary to:'No. 0. Clause 13.-The managers dis-

agreed to the insertion of the word "-six-teen" for the word "twenty-one" in line 23and agreed that the ward "twenty-one"stand as printed.

No. 10. Clause 13.-The managers dis-agreed with the Assembly's amendment strik-out out paragraph (c) of the clause andagreed to the paragraph (a ) as printed.

The managers agreed to the insertion ofa further paragraph at I lie end of Claus e13 as follows:-

(d) By adding a further subsection aSfollows:

(3) every agreement or permit andagreement shall be in accordance withthe prescribed form.

No. -16. Clause 16.-The managers dis-agreed to the amendment end ag-reed thatthe proviso stand as printed.

No. 17. Clause 17.-The managers dis-agreed to the amendment and agreed thatthe proviso stand as printed.

No. i8. Clause 21.-The managers agreedto the amendments to Subsection (2) of pro-posed new Section 33A.

No. 20. Clause 21.-The managers dis-agreed with the amendments proposed and

ag_,reed to the following amendments:-In paragraph (a) of zsubsetioni (IL) of

proposed new section 33B strike out the

wrds "who is not othervise insured andkept in sured to the satisf action of the com-mnissioner against sickness or accident,"No, 21. Clause 21: In paragraph (b) of

the samec subsection strike out the w;ord"in digent.",

No. 22. Clause 21: The managers dis-agreed with the amendment and agreed onthe following amyendmecnt:-

Tit subsection (3) of proposed new sec-tion 33B3, page 10, line 4, strike out allwords after the word "possible" and addthe following:-

(a) provide free transport for the nativeand send him to the nearest andmost accessible hospital, or

(b) at tie op~tion of a lprotector providefree transport tor the native to theprotector and thence provide freetransport for the native to thenearest and most accessible hos-pital.

No. 23, Clause 22: The managers dis-agreed wvith the amendment and agreed tothe following amendment:-

In para'graph (b) of the clause insertaftler the word "child" in line 35 the words"net exceeding six m-onths, in the ease ofthe child."Mo. 24. Clause 25: The managers dis-

agreed with the amendmnents of the Assemblystriking out paragraph (d) of subsection(2) of piroposed new section 42, and agreedthat thie paragraph should stand as printed,and to the insertion of a proviso at the endof subsection (2.) as follows:-

Provided that any native who isaggrieved on account of any objection hythe comisisioner under this section maya~ppeal. to a magistrate in the magisterialdistrict in which he resides. Such appealshall he in accordance with the regulationswhich may prescribe the time for appecal-ing ad the procedure to be followed.

NXo. 2G. Clause 263: The managers agreedto the Assembly's amendments of the pro-posed new subsection (1) of Section 43 andfurther agreed to the insertion of a furthersubsection after the new subsection (2) pro-posed to section 43:

(3) All offences under this section shalllie tried and detennined by a residentmagistrate.

The managrers disagreed with the Assembly'samiendmnent to strike out subsection (2) ofSection 43 of the principal Act.

2652

[10 DrcEmBER, 1936.] 2653

No. 28. Clause 28: The managers agreedto the Assembly's amendment.

No. 29. Clause 30: The managers agreedto the Assembly's amendment.

No. 30. Clause 31: The managers dis-agreed with the Assembly's amendment, buta~i'eed to the following amendment:-

In paragraph (c) of subsection (2) ofproposed new Section 59D strike out theword "may" and substitute the following:"shall if practicable".No. 35. Proposed new Section 44A: The

managers disagreed witlh the Assembly'samnendmuent.I move--

That the report be adopted.Mr. SLEEMAN: It was difficult to follow

all the amendments as read by the Minister.I should like to knowv the final position ofthe quaodroons. Then there was a referenceto the word ''force." Seemingly "force"was struck out and "mneanis" included, but'means" would include force, if necessary.These conferences, in my opinion, arc be-owning a farce; in fact, I have always con-sidered they have been. We appoint threemembers from each House, with power to dopractically as they like. True, the House canthrow out the report of the managers, butthat is seldom done and it would be difficultto get a majority after the outstanding

aendments have been discussed by threemanagers from each place. I gathered thatquite a number of amendments have beenthrown out, and that some other arrange-wient has been reached between the sixmanagers. Evidently new matter has beeninserted that the House has not had an op-portunity to discuss.

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:Regarding qjuadroons, the amendment pro-posed to delete the words "over twenty-oneyer. The proposal now is to give anopportunity to improve the conditions ofquadroons, not only those living in nativecanmps, but also tho who are wards of theState, and in certain homes. They will befree from the provisions of the measureunless they live substantially as natives orapply to a magistrate to he classed asnatives.

Mr. Marshall: Those in institutions willbe classed as natives?

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE:They will be mostly children of tender age,but for many reasons an endeavour will hewade to uplift them, particularly those wshonre very light in colour-and there are some

sad cases-who are wards of the State andare sent to homes and controlled. As to thedeletion of the word "force," the memberfor K~imberley might he able to explain thepoint further; but the contention was thatwhere it was found essential to inspectnatives for all forms of disease, take chargeof them aind have them sent to hospital orother proper place for attention, some forcemight he necessary. An agreement wasarrived at by using the word "means" in-stead of the word "force."

Question put and passed; the maonagers'report agreed to.

Resolution repor'ted, the report adopted,and a message accordingly returned to thecouncil.

Council's Further Message.Message from the Council received and

read notifying, that it had agreed to the con-ference moa igers' report.


Conference Maaes Report.

THE MINISTER FOR EMPLOYMENT(Hou. A. R. G. Hawke--Northam) [4.32]:I desire to report that the managers repre-senting another place and this House metand have come to an agreement. The reportof the managers may lie sumimarised asfollow:-

Clause 8. Add after the word ''Minister''as suggested in the amndment the words '"orthe Chief Iaspector"' in line 42 of page 6.

Conseqjuential amnendaments as above to beplaced in lines 4, 20, and 25 of page 7.

In line 39, page 7, af ter the word '' warned'add the words ''in writing by the Minister ortime CThief Inspector.''

Clause 8. Page 7, line 9, after thme word'before'' add the words ''Ithe date of.''

Clause 2. Insert a new definition as fat-lows:-"Cmief Inspector'" means the Chief In-spector of Factories appointed under the Fac-tories and Shops Act, 1920.

Clause 24 of the Bill has been deleted, thtusmnak-ing tihe Act permannent.

Schedule. Add thme following items to tbeschedule:-' ' clothing and material for clothingmade wholly or mainly of wool.''

I move-That tme report be adopted.

'Ur. 'Watts: I did not hear the Ministerrefer to altering- the time in which a warn-in w must he given to the Press.

2654 [ASSEMBLY.]

The MINISTER FOR EMPLOY-MENT:That is dealt with in Clause 8, page 7, line1, as set out in the report.

Question put and passed; the managers'report agreed to.

Resolution reported, the report adopted,and a message accordingly returned to theCouncil.

CocneiP'S Further Message.Message from the Council received and

read notifying that it had agreed to theconference managers' report.

ASSENT TO BILLS.

Summons to council.Mr. SPEAKER: Hon. members are re-

qluested to be in attendance in another placeat 4.45 p.m. where His Excellency the Lieut.-Governor will give his assent to Hills thathave been passed.

Sitthig suspended from 4.35 to 5.5 p.

ABDICATIOWOF KING EDWARD VIII.

Message from the Secretary of State forthe Domninions.

THE PREMIER (Hon. J. C. Willeock-Geraldton) [5.5]: I have a -Messagr. fromthe Secretary of State for the Dominionswith reference to the abdication of HisMajesty the King received through His Ex-cellency the LienuL-Governor. I move-

That the Speaker rend the message, and thatit be subsequently ]aid on the Taible of MheHouse.

Question put and passed.Mr. Speaker read the Message. [Vide

Council report ante.]

ADJOURNMENT-CLOSE or SESSION.

Complimentary Remarks.

THE PREMIER (Hon. J. C. Willeock-Geraldton) [5.8]: The work of the sessionhas now concluded, and I desire to wish thecomplimients of the season to the Speaker,and to thank him for his good and impartialwork. I also desire to express the samesentiments to the Chairman of Commjteesand the Deputy Chairman of Committees, toall the officials of the House, and also to the"Haiisard" staff.. I also desire to expressmy appreciation of the courtesy which hasbeen extended to me and to members of the

Government by the Leader of the Opposi-tion and the Leader of the National Party,and also to every member of the House whohas acted iii a similar manner; to all, infact, who have acted similarly. The sessionhas been very well conducted, thanks toyour able presidency, Mr. Speaker. Some-times we may have felt a little heart-burn-ing in regard to some things that have beensaid to and about uts, but I hope that anyill-feeling which may have temporarilyexisted in anybody's mind no longerexi.ts, and that we have got back to normalconditions. So far as our relationships inthis House are concerned we meet as politicalopponents, hut always, I hope, as friends,with the outstnnding knowledge with regardto each other that wve are all here for thepurpose of doing our b~est for the State ofWestern Australia. During the year con-ditions have improved somewhat in WesternAustralia hut unfortunately climatic condi-tions, particularly in the outback parts ofthe State, where drought has existed, haveresulted in a serious loss to both the agricul-tural and pastoral industries. I hope thatduring the coming year the State will beprosperous and contented, more so thaniduring the past year. I hope toe that weshall be much more fortunate regardingclimatic conditions so that all citizens of theState, wherever they are situated, will enjoya prosperous yea! in 1937.

HON. C. G. LATHAM (York) [5.113: 1desire to endorse the remarks of thePremier and to extend to you, Sir, theChairman of Committees, the Deputy Chair-mn, the "Hansard" staff and the offi-cers of the House the compliments of theseason and to express the hope that allwill have an enjoyable holiday. I also de-sire to thank the Premier and Ministers fortheir courtesy to the Opposition. In poli-tics, unfortunately, the road is not alwayssmooth; but with tolerance towards eachother we are able to iron out the ruts andicorrugations along that road and displaygood feelings towards each other. I desireto express also to the Press my thanks fortheir kind consideration towards memberson this side of the House. We have hadfrom those gentlemen a very fair reportof our proceedings dluring the session thatis about to close and 'ye are grateful tothem for sometimes not giving publicityto those things that might have been left

110 DECEJI3IR, 1036.1]65

unsaid. T1he session has not been a (verystrenuous one except towards the end. Ithink it was last year that I expressed thehope that there would not he any moreendurance tests towards the close of ourwork, hut it seems impossible to finish thesession without having to go through suchan ordeal. I hope that in the futture wemay he able to arrange the business so asto avoid any kind of an endurance test, be-cause umembers are physically no better offby what they have to go through duringthe closing hours. I admit that there mighthalve been sonic reason for the lengthenedsitling this year, but I hope next year weshall be able so to adjust legislation thatwe shall not have to repeat the experiencethat we have just concluded. We aresorry to see our e-Premier taking a backseat on the floor of this House, hut we canaill express the hope that the rest hie hashad has improved his health. I can alsoexpress my regret that Mir. Drew had torelinquish his office daring the year. Ofall the men we have had the privilege ofknowing, very few have endeared them-selves to us more than has Mr. Drew, whoselOVtLblI3 nature and wonderful dispositionhave secured] for himi the friendship ofeverybody. f wish all members and thestaff a pleasant holiday and when we mecetagain I trust that all %dIUl be in the enjoy-meat of good health and that those whoare not in that happ 'y condition to-day willbe restored to it when next we meet.

RON. N. KEENAN (Nedlands) [5.15]:1 desire to endorse what thas been.said, and so well and truly said, bythe Leader of the House and theLeader of the Opposition. To you, Sir, theDeputy Speaker, the Chairmen of Commit-tees aid the officers I extend the complimentsof the season. I also wish to express myappreciation of the courtesy that we havealways experienced at your hands, and attheir hands. I join likewise in conveying to

the "Hfansard" staff our appreciation of theadmirable manner in which they convoy tothe public in intelligible English what wehave attenipted to say on the floor of thisHouse. Lastly I dlesire to acknowledge, andacknowledge most gratefully for myself andthose for whom I am entitled to speak, theservices of the clerks, and the staff under theclerks, without whose services it would beimpossible for us to carry on successfnllyour- debates in this Chamiber. And so the ses-sion has coute to an end, and it only remainsnow for us to wish one another in the mostheartfelt and true manner the complimentsof the season. 1 amn expressing the feelingsof all who are associated with Lit when I.say that we alppreciate and always have ap-preciated the courtesy of the Premier andother Ministers in their attitude towards iw.I wi!oh all a very happy Christmas.

MR. SPEAKER [5.17]: On behalfof the Chairman, the Deputy Chairmen ofCommittees, the oficers of the Hlouse, nidthe "Hansard" staff, I desire to thank theLeaders for their kind words, I feel thatthe staff deserve what has been said of them,and for myself I can say that I have everyright to appreciate the services they render.Only those like miys.elf, who have an oppor-tunity of constantly workinge with them, canreally value the services they render. OILtheir hehalf I reciprocate the good wishes ofmembiiers and trust that the festive seasonwill be a brighit one and that the new yearwill be prosperous for all.

ADJOURNMENT-SPECIALTHE PREMIER (lion. J. C. Willeock-

Gcraldton) [5.1971: I mnove-

That thel House at its rising adjourn toalato to be fixed -by Mr. Speaker.

Question put and passed.

Hoause adjourned at 5.20 p.m. (F-riday).

[By Proclamzation published ire the "Couernm1ent Caret tel" of the 28th May, 1037,Parliament was prorogued until 'Thursday, ltme 29th day of July, 1937T.]

2655

Documents

legislative Aseemblg. - Parliament of Western Australia