Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

FRIDAY, 30 AUGUST 1918

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Meatworks Bill. [30 AuGus:r.] Questions. 1881

FRIDAY, 30 AUG"C'ST, 1918.

The SPEAKER iHon. \V. McCormack Cairn1) took th~ chair at half-past 3 o'clo'ck.

PAPERS. The following papers, laid on the table,

were ordered to be printed:-Addendum to report by Mr. Austin on

accounts and financial affairs of the South Brisbane Gas and Light-Com-pany, Limited. •

Annual report on the Jubilee Sana­torium, Dalby, for the year ended 30th June, 1918.

Annual report of the Chief Protector of Aborigines for the year 1917.

QUESTIONS. FISH EXPORTED TO NEW SOUTH WALES.

Mr. ROBERTS (East Toowoornbn), in the absenco of Mr. Fry, asked the Treasurer­

" 1. How long has the State Fish Market been supplying New South Wales with lish?

"2. ·what persons or firms in N(]W South Wales are supplied with fish?

"3. \Vhat species and quantities of fish h>tve been sent to New South Wales from 1st July to the 28th August?

"4. Is it a fact that the local fish hawker5 cannot secure regular supplies of fish for local COtlsumption?

" 5. What is the quantity of fish .stored in lockers Nos. 2, 3, i!'nd 4?

" 6. Is it the intention of the Govern­ment to supply New South Wales with fish whilFt tlte local demand. cannot be satisfied?

"7 ·when can the P'"ple of Queens­land expect a reduction in the retail price of fish 't"

The' TREASURER (Hon. E. G. Theodore, Chil/agoe) re'plied-

" 1. Sinc0 17th August, 1918. "2. One firm. "3. Mugil Dobula, 500 lb.; SpartlS

Australis. 950 lb. ; Sillago ciliata, 2,500 lb.; Hemirhamphus intermedius, 1,000 lb. ; Arrhamphus sclerolepis, 350 lb.; Gvnosarcl:> pelami~, 39 lb. ; Seriola Gi·andis. 48 lb

"4. No. For some time very heavy stocks have been carried in the cold stores, and ample supplies are avail­able.

" 5. About 42 tons. "6. No. Only supnlies in excess of

the local and country demands will be forwarded to New South Wales.

"7. \YheD the svstem of distribution is developed by the State, the retail prices will be controlled. At present the market has no control over charges by hawk'"rs or shopkeepers."

PowERS OF SAVINGS BAKK CmmrssiONER.

Mr. CORSER (Burnett) asked the Trea­su!'er-

" 1. Does the State Savings Bank Act give to the Commissioner greater powers than any other Commissioner controlling any other State utility in Australia?

1882 Quest;ons. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

" 2. Has a resolution be~n passed by the ·State public s~rvants contending that the control of the bank staff by the Commissioner is not democratic?

" 3. Does the Government propose to amend, during the present session of Parliament, the existing SaYings Bank Act and regulations as they apply to the public service proper?"

The TREASURER replied­" 1. No. " 2. I am not aware of this. " 3. Intentions of the Government on

this matter cannot be disclosed at pre­sent."

At a later 'tage-Mr, CORSER : I ·would a'k the Treasurer

if he would permit me- to hand him a copy of resolutions passed by the State publi<' servants, as published in " The State Ser­vice," being the official organ of the Public Suvice General Officers' Association of Queensland, which shows that the control of the Savings Bank is truly not demo­cratic.

The TREASCRRR: Will the hon. member kindly give notice?

Mr. CORSER: I think I wil! hand it to him now without waiting to giv'2 notice. (Laug·hter.)

HOME FOR DISCHARGED PRISONERS. Mr. PETRIE (Toornbul) asked the Home

Secretarv-" In regard to the answer given to my

question re assistance by the Govern­ment to provide for the initial cost of the establishment of the propocood home for discharged prisoners, amounting to about £1,220, has the Government given consideration to the matter, or come to any determination with regard to the m attAr; if so, to what determination?"

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. Huxham, Buranda) replied-

" Xo immediate intention to contri­bute to the initial cost of the establish­ment of such a home."

NORTHER~ RAILWAY ARBITRATION CASE. Mr. PETRIE asked the Premier-

" 1. Has the Northern Railway Arbi­tration Court case been despatched to Mr. Justioq Stringer, of New Zealand, for con~ideration, and, if so, upon what date? '

"2. Will he lay upon the table copies of the c0rrespondenoe which has passed between the Government and Mr. Justice Stringer in the mattQr?

" 3. \Vhen may a final decision regard­ing the questions involved be expected?"

The PREMIER (Hon. T. J. Ryan, Barcoo) replied-

" 1. Yes; on 3rd August, 1918. " 2. There ig no corre·cpondencfj be­

tween the Government and His Honour Mr . • T ustice Stringer. I lay on the table of the House a copy of the communica­tion addressed to the Hon. the Prim<> Minister of New Zealand, transmitting the case,.

" 3. Full information will be disolosed when the judgment of His Honour is received.''

Whereupon the Premier laid on the table the letter referred to.

RELIEF OF DA:llAGE DONE BY CYCLONES.

Mr. SWAYXE (Jfirani) asked the Trea­surer-

" \Vhat a!e the amounts which have been contributed by the State and Com­monwealth Governments respectively to­wards the relief of damage done by cyclones which occurred at Jl.lackay, J ohnstone River, and Babinda ?"

The TREASURER replied-" 1\o amounts have been contributed

by the Commonwealth. All nece>sary repairs and restoration of State property are being made by the State, and a scheme is in operation for assisting the owners of houses damaged or demolished to restore same. The amount involved cannot at pre;ent be ascertained."

A-eDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS.

Mr. ?.IACARTNEY (Toowong) asked the Premier-

" \Vhen mav the House expect-(a} the s;eneral "report of the Auditor­Genel:~l; and (b) his report on industrial enterprises?"

The PREMIER replied-" These reports are in course of pre­

paration, and will be tabled as soon as ihev are ready. I might say that I have a n;emorandum from the Auditor-Genera] in respect to the matter, which h"' furnished to me to-day, and I lay tl1~t on the table of the House. The date lS mentioned, but my eye cannot catch it for the moment."

DEPAET>IENTAL REPORTS.

?.Ir. ~IACARTNEY asked the Premier-" \\"hen nn1v the House expect reports

of the variotis dcpHtments other than that of the Mines Department, already circulated?''

The PRE?.IIER replie-d-" These reports are in course of pre­

paration, and will be tabled in the near future."

DECE~TRALISATION-RAIL WAY DEPART:.UENT.

~Ir. FORDE (RockhamzJton) asked the Secretarv for RailwaYS-

" l. Has he gi~en consideration to t~e recommendation of the Ro:val Commis­sion on Railways to the effect that the prE'·oent system of decentralisation bil o_on­tinued, with the possibility of .extendmg it from timo to time as expenence may warrant?

"2. \V ill he inquire at the earliest opportunity into the evident need for the immediate extension of the system in Central and Northern Queensland?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. A. Fihelly, Padrlington) replied-

" 1 and 2. Yes."

HorsEHOLD WoRKERs' INSuRANCE.

Mr. ROBERTS asked the Assistant Min­ister for Justice-

" 1. \Vhat was the amount received by Insurance Commissioner for the house­hold workers' section for the years ended 30th June, 1917, and 1918?

L30 AUGUST.] 8up;•ly. 1883

"2. \Vhat claims were made under this section, 1917, amount paid; also, 1918, amount paid?"

Ho~. W. X GILLIES (Eacham) replied­

" 1. Amount of premiums received during-

£ s. cl. (a) Year ended 30th

June, 1917 3,420 2 0 (b) Year ended 30th

Jmw, 1918 2,025 2 9 ------

Total ... £5,445 4 9

"2. (A.) Kumber of claims during­(a) Yeat· ended 30th

June, 1917 124 (b) Year ended 30th

June, 1918 116

Total 240

(B.) Amount of compensation paid and estimated-

£ s. d. (a) Year ended 30th

June, 1917 (b) Year ended 30th

June, 1918 Estimated cost of

settling outstand-ing clai1ns

Total

Bonus declared 30th June, 1917, 50 per

506 0 3

729 19 10

341 0 0

£1,577 0 1

:B s. cl.

cent. 1, 710 1 0 Bonus propose·d 30th

• Tune, 1918, 50 per cent. 1,012 11 6

Total £2,722 12 6

.

Thus the actual cash charge for manage­ment of some 10,000 domestic policies for three years ended 30th June 1919 is £1,145 12s. 2d., or about 2s: 3d. 'per policy, or 9d. per polic:y per annum."

SL:PPLY.

FrxAXCL\L SrATE:liEXT-REsc:liPTlO~ oF DEBATE.

(Jir. Bn·tram, Jiaree, 1n the chai1·.)

Question-That there be granted £300 for aide-de-camp to His Excellencv the Governor -stated. ·

Mr. STOPf?ORp (Mount ][organ): Any stranger sJttJ_ng m the lobby during the course of t;ns debate would come to the concl_usio'! that we '!'ere discus.sing matters of VJtal Importance m connection with the war. Many of the speakers introduced prob­lems over which thi~ Government have no jurisdiction. If I de>ired, I could easily e1_1tertam tl~c House d';lring the time at my d1sposal \nth complamts I daily receive from the dependents of soldiers re,garding then treatment bv the Feda·al Government· but I have no desire to occupv the time of the House in that wav, becat'ise I know I could not possibly ad,;ance the matter one

iota by doing so. I listened to the speeches delivered from the Opposition benches, and while I am prepared to admit that the function of the Opposition is to criticise, I always believG that intelligent criticism 5hould be accompanied by some constructive ideas to take the place of that which they would destroy. I believe that I could go down the street and in an hour select suffi­cient men to tear down this building; but probabl,': not one of them could design another building or erect a structure any­thing like it. Unle,;s criticism be accom­panied by constructive ideas to take the place of what is criticised, it is merely wasting time. In ,aying that members of the Opposition who have spoken have not offered any constructive ideas, I must ex­cept the hon. member for Albert. That hon. mPmber devoted a considerable por­tion of his time to a criticism of the Go­Yernn1ent's taxation measures, -and he vvas frank and candid enough to admit that he differed from the Government in the method of taxation propooed, .bocquse he believed that the Government by their taxation pro­posals had placed the burden on one portion of the community only. The hon. member frankly admitted that, had he charge of the Government benches, he would re-enact something in the shape of the poll tax that ihc worken of this State endured under the r<'ign of previous Governments. We must admire the hon. member for his plain statement in setting forth as he Jid his belief that. no mattflr wh::t the income of the worker might ]>e, no mtctter what his finan­ci,cl position might be, no matt,}l' whether the pn ,ent great crisis had resulted in his losing income, he 3hould be called upon to Le "r the bnrdeu uf taxctt~ou ey_uallv \Yith the large portion of the community 'il:ho are making hu:-ce fortune< out of the Fufferings o£ the people to-day.

J\.Ir. BAYLEY: He did not say that .

j,Ir. STOPFORD: What the hon. gentle­man said was that he believed that the taxa­tion should be placed on every member of the community.

Mr. BAYLEY: \Vho was able to pay.

:!'.Ir. STOPFORD: By interjection he was asked. " Does that mean a poll tax?" He hankly said that we might call it a poll tax, if we so Jesired. If my interpretation is wrong, I lea.-e it to those who read the remarko of the hon. member and mv inter­roretation to judge fm, themselves.' Hon. members oppo,,ite have strenuously opposed, not only in this Chamber but also in another place, the impocition of taxation on the \Yealthy section of this community; and it is interesting, in studying the figures to be found in the annual reports, to find out jmt how the proposals of the present Go­Yernment are, as di,dosed by an analysis of thoFP figures. Taking the incomes of the pr.storalists for 1913, and omitting all those who are in receipt of les, than £1,000 per Bnnum. I find that, in 1913, 829 pastoralists were in receipt of incomes of over £1,000 r~er annum ; the total incomes amounted to £3,226,033; and they paid a tax of £101,213. In 1917, there were 765 pastorali,ts with incomh of more than £1.000; their total incon1Ps amounted to £3,628,861; and they paid a tax of £241,160; showing a net in­crease in their incomes of £261,881. In 1913 there were 57 tax-paying pastoral companies, with a total income of £940,369,

Mr. Stopford.]

1884 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

and they paid a tax of £45,272. In 1917, there were 52 tax-paying pastoral companies, wi~h a total income of £1,308,330, and they pa1d a tax of £100,206; showing an in­creased income of £467,961, and an increased tax of £54,834-grand increased profit, £413,127. Anvone who analvses those figures and fo'r a moment considers the position of the workers in this State, con­fronted as they .are by the increased cost of living, and with the small advance that has been made in their wages must realise that this Government have impo;ed their taxa­tion measures on the shoulders of those who are best able to bear them. And, when it goes forth to the public that the hon. member for Albert, as the leader of a party-because, I take it, that when he speaks in this Cham­ber he speaks as a wing of the Opposition, and that he speaks with the authoritv of his followers-when he frankly states that in hi~ opinion, it is unjust to illlpose thi~ taxatwn, and that he would substitute for it ~- general form of taxation, I belie.-e that the workers, at least, will realise how for­tunate they are in having the present G·o­vernment in power. The wool sales have shown considerable increases of profit to those engaged in the pastoral indmtry. In 1912, greasy wool sold for 9~·d. per lb. ; in 1913, for 9 4/ Sd. per lb. ; in 1914, for 10~d. per lb.; in 191.5, for 9 2/Sd. per lb.; in 1916, for ll~d. per lb. ; and in 1917. for 14. 72d. per lb. Scoured wool sold in 1912 for 18~d. per lb. ; in 1913, for 18~d. per lb. ; in 1914, for 19d. per lb.; in 1915, for 18 1/Sd. per lb.; m 1916, for 20~d. per lb. ; and in 1917 for '22.8&d. per lb. Those are some figures ":hich it would be well for the people of Queensland to have placed before them, "o that they may know the true position of thoH engaged i" the pastoral industry tha' "·e hear so much squealing about from hon. memLcrs opposite, and from hon. members in another place. Just a few weeks ag-o, I was one of th~ delegates from the AuStralian ·workers' Union who nwt the pastora.lists in con­fei:enc_e to consider the. ratEs of wages to be pa1d m the pnstoral mdnstrv. I mav sav tha~ for years the Australian \Yoi·kers' U m on have been endea vourmg to force the pastoralists to pay a living rat: on their <:attle and sheep stations. 'I'hev have failed because the wealthy P&;tol:alists' rnio~ have been able to obtain the b€··t legal advice to protect them from treatment similar to that which has been meted out to those engaged in other industries. \Vhen wo were discussing the rate~ of v. ages, every a.cJ.-ance w~ a.skc•d for was strenuously opposed, in sp1te of the fact that the p&•;toralists are making the huge profits that the figures I have quotc·d disclose. It is interesting also to know that this pastoral industrv is largely run by aboriginal blacks. I find that to-day on the pastoral holdiBgs in this State there are _employed 1,100 aboriginals at wages rangmg from 2s. to £2 Ss. per week, or an average wage of 14£. 6d. per >veek. It is not my intenti_on to. go ..-cry deeply into the matters contamed m the Financial State­ment. \Ve are fully aware, as has been stated by previous speakers on this side, that we ha.ve had a record revenue \Ye are fullv aware of the fact that we ha.-e fini;;hed the year with a deficit. Whether a deficit is a good thing or a bad thing is for the people .of Queensland to decide. \Vhat I desire to say is that it is a sour~e of c0ng-ratulation to us to know that during this trying period

[Mr. 8topford.

we have kept the wheels of industry going. I quite realise that it is not gratifying to the• G'overnment, or to the public, perhaps, to have a deficit, but this Committee should be devoting their time t<J-day, in my opinion, to the consideration of problems that will confront them when this war has run its course. Now, if we analyse the position, we will find that the deficit of this Government has been largely contributed by the Railway Department. Many people, in viewing that rosition, take up the stand that the railways of the State shouJ.d be JUdged like any other industri otl concern in the State-that is, they should be judged oh the balance-sheet rhey show aG the end of the year. I differ from them in that opinion, because I hold that thG railways-being owned by the St4l.te and controlle-d by the State-have a purpose to serve totally different from that of showing a JTtere profit. I belir,ve the greatest bene­fits a State derives from its railways are to be found in the settlement that takes place in the far-distant portions of the State. (Hear, hear !) The railways of this State have branched out in .all directions, and they are making it possible for settlers to-day to settle in many portions of the State that otherwise would be put to no productive purpose at all, the lands of which would be idle.

What we as a Government, what we as a people should really consider is this : How are we going to meet the later position that will bB with us when the war has run its course? Many people will tell you that it is uossiblo that there will be a large influx of 'nopulation to Australia. I am going to diff-er from them. I do not believe we can look to any such influx of population to Australia. Some; timG back-I regret very much I have not the cutting >vith me to-day -there appeared in a Sunday issue of the "Dailv :Mail" a statement that certain firms in England anticipated erecting factories in Australia. I think the amount involved was somewhere in the vicinity of £400,000. The announcement was mad'e that the British Government had refused permission for those factories to be erected or for the necessary capital to leave Great Britain. We quite unde.rstand that in times of war and stress a nation must conserve its capital. \Ve also understand that after the war has run its course, the wastage of human life having depleted the population, there is the problem confrontino- the nation d conserving her manhood, "and 1 venture to say that what took place regsrding the capital i;:tvol;ed !n those undertakings I have menhonea Will take place regarding the manhood of the various nations when this war is over. Each nation will req'Jire her men; each nation will require to build up again, and I venture to predict that we will not be in a position to draw our population, as some people antici­pate, from the older countries of the world.

Now, the problem confronting this Govern­ment and the r\ational Government control­ling Federal affairs is how we are going to increase our production with our present population. I have lived a considerable por­tion of my life in Mount Mm·gan, and we have, I suppose, in i\iount 1\;lorgan, one of the biggest single industrial enterprises operating in this State, an industrial concern that has been confronted with a probl{lm similar to that which confronts th<' State to-day. In other words. the Mount Morgan

Supply. [30 A"GGUST.] Sup]Jiy. 1885

Gold Mining Companv, at one pedod of its existence one of the ·richest mines in Aus­tralia gradually changed from a wealthy gold 'mine into a low-grade copper mine. Each change in the nature of the ore necessi­tated some method of cheapening the process of production. Later on, as the men became organised and demanded higher wages, tlw company who were treating the very low­grade ore were confronted with the problem of overcoming the added cost of production, and their method of solving the problem was to call mechanical science to their aid and to evolve a method of handling the larger quantity of ore with the same number of men. It has only been by a policy of that description that the mine has been enabled to live as long a• it has, and unless the State •md the continent of Australia are going to recognise that responsibility, they are not going to live on the plane they should occupy when this war has run its course.

Now, I am going to make a suggestion that I believe will assist us in attaining the object we should have in view. I believe that the hon. member for Wide Bay made a very true statement when he said that it should be the dutv of a Government to take charge of the products of the producer from the farm to the consumer. (Hear, hear!) I am not prepared to evolve a scheme whereby we may do that, but I am prepared to giv'e to the Committee the result of my experience when travelling in the different parts of the State with ihe Public Works Commission. In_ almost every portion of the State where I have been, where the farmers and settlers are struggling, the greatest problem con­fronting them is the means of transport. In the past the Government have built railwaY lines in .different portions of the State, and were thmgs normal to-day and if we could build our lines for the same cost as we did previously, there might be no need for an alteration of our policy. But we find to-day that railwavs which have been built for £6.000 per 1nile or £7,000 per mile, in some case·' c:.u"nnot be built for less than £11,000 or £12,000 per mile. Any man -,.:ho reads the report of the Commissioner for Raihv'l vs will readily rer"Jgnise that the largest nortion of the nilway deficit is from agricultural lines, and if we were to adopt the methods of finance advocated by some of making the railwa:cs pay like an ordinary businesR, many of those lines would be clos-~d up. But in closing up the lines we would be closing up the production neccS".lrv for the wealth of the community, neces.·ai·y for the existence of the communitv. 'What I desire to impreeis on the Commitbe is that the time has arrived when we a" a people should be prepared to e'T!bark upon a proper policv of road con­struction. (Hear, hear!) 'We should be prepared to recognise that a large amount of our deficit, so far as railways are concerned, is cluB to the fact thnt we as a State have neglectc·cl to provide for the selector of this State reasonable means of bringing his pro­ducts to the rai]w(ty. Any man who will go into an agricultural centre, particularlv the Atherton distric,, and look at the land 'along the railway line. will find the finest crops he could desire to see. But if he went 5 miles away from the railway line he would find that there were no crops growing at all ; he would find that dairving- had taken the place of maizegro>Ying. · If he asked why this had happened, the farmer would renly that it was because he could not prolitably

convey his products to the railway station. I venture to sav that something is wrong when we find such conditions existing. Our railways should at least be able, with proper roads, to tap the agricultural products of the farmer for a distance of 9 miles from the line, and they should be able to tap an area of at least 15 miles for the dairy farmer. Instea-d of that, in many of our most fertile districts we find that the area is limited to 3 or 4 miles for agricultuml products, and 9 miles at the utmost for Cl"eam.

Mr. PAY!;E: Because of bad roads.

Mr. STOPFORD: As my friend, the hon. member for ::\Iitchell, states, that is due to one cause only-to bad roads. Along the 1•ailwa v line in portions of the State many selectors are struggling for a living to-day, and the railwa> that conveys their products

to market is showing a yearly [4 p.m.] loes. :Much of the land along

our railways is held by people ·who are not developing it to the best in- · ten~'t of the State. Fr<;lsh selectors arrive, and thev are forced, because the1'e is no land available within the radius served by the raih;·av to go a greater distance out. After they. 'have progressed a while, they start an agitation for the building of a railwav. For in,tance, men who are ten miles from the terminus of an existing rail­wav immediatelv a sufficient number of the;~ are engaged in the dairying industry and they find that difficultiP,s of transport confront them, start advocating the build­ing of a railway. The cost of ordinary railwaY construction to-day is £11,000 per mile, ~nd the building of that railway would remesent an outlav of £110,000 by the State. The yearly 'interest and redemption at 5 per sent. would corn<; to a sum of £5,500. In fiye vears this would represent £27,500. M v contention is that a properly constructed road can be built to-day for a sum of £2,00<) per mill', and that it woulcl pay this Go­vernment or am: other GovCl·nment, to c'Jnstrnct 'that road, because the initial cost would be the only cost, and instead of in­c.urrin,O" r.n expenditure of £110,000 in build­in" a "railwav, which it may be reasona~ly expec~ed, >vhen thin;j'S are normal agam, may be constructed for £80,000, thP, actual co't of the construction of the road wonl.J be stwcd in the lc.;;sem·.:l cost of the build­ing of the railwav~ ,-;hen conditions are normal. I contend' that anyone who will anal·.se th~ fig-ures of the shire councils who arc controlling our r Jads v;ill readily admit that theY are not in a position to a.dequatelv pro.-ide · pror-t>r roads with the revonu() at their dispo,al. I ha.ve. taken th<: trouble to collect a few 't" tlstlcs roncernmg some of the shires in Queensland, and I find that the Eacham Shire controls an ar~a of 391 sqnrre miles, . and that its revenue from general 1·ates 13 £3.466 2s. 4d. per annum; the B;,nana Shire has an area of 6,140 square miles, and a revenue from genG:·al rab:s amounting to £7,275; and the Shu'G of Caboolture has an area of 495 square mile-:, wiih a rc.-en.ue ?f £3,827. . Any sen·~ible person who \Ylll gn·e. any constdGr>:· tion to the matter must adm1~ that the_re. 1s no possible hope of those sh1res prov1.d!ng proper roads in their particul>:r locah.be.s. I have the evidence of Mr. Hasbe, who 1s m charge of the department for bitilding de­velopment .roads for new selectC!rs-sworn evidence gn·en beforE) the Pubhc Works

Jfr. Stopford.]

188() Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Supply.

Commission during a visit to Atherton­and he 6ays that reasonably good roads can be made in th0 Atherton district for an €Xpenditure of £2,000 per mile.

The point I desire to make is that if we as a Government are going to develop the resource"< of the State, we must recognise that if we do not utilise the land for the best possible purposes, we, and we alone, are going to be the losers. I have studied the position in the various States of the Commonwealth, and I find that Queensland is the only State that is not assisting in the direction I have indicated. In Victoria they have a Country Roads Board. That board deals with all requests for new roads, for altqrations in roach, and for the general construction of roads through agricultural districts. During the first year they were in existence they constructed 45 miles of road for a sum of £24,000, in the second year 304 miles of road for £342,000. in the third year 340 miles of road for £460,000, and in the fourth year 143 miles of road for £222,000. They have spent altogether, in road construction and maintenance, over a mileage of 834 miles, a sum of £1,058,510, with an average cost per mile of £1,269. Included in that expenditure was the cost of two ,bridges-£7,000. In New South 1Vales the expenditure on ordinary district roads was-1913, £132,000; 1914, £151,000; 1915, £163,000. In· main roads for the same period they spent-1913, £280,000; 1914, £235,000; 1915, £175,000; 1916, £250,000. \Vestern Australia and South Australia also am doing their duty in that respect. I believG that, if the Government were to givG the matter consideration, they would readih reJJise that much of thG difficult', confro'nting them as a Government in makinO. their railways· pay would be removed wer~ th0 roads in ,agricultural districts given bett•T attention than thev receive to-day. (IIear, hefir!) '

Xow, the first suggestion I would make to the Government would be the appointment of a road specialist, or, in other words, a road engineer. They might then appoint a board; that is a matter to which thev would give personal consi·deration. I believe that the duties of the authority appointed should be to determine, first, the sitPs for raihntv stations along a proposed new line. Any man who travels rotwd the various agricultural districts must admit that, very often, through some influence that is brou<;ht to hear, the railwav st;,lion i" placed in absolutely the wrong site.

Mr. Co:r:sER: I-I ear, hear !

:C\Ir. STOPFORD : It is plac,-,d in the n1· ·~,t inron-n?nient sitP l- "aU~·-~ cert,lin inBuciL 0s ha Ye b~en J.t \~ ork.

Jl.1r. CoRSER: And want of proper care.

}Ir. STOPFORD: Yes. I believe that the railway station ohould he m;ude the centre from which the various roads would brm:ch out into the various r:ortions of the district. I think that they should have the duty of mapping out the roads nece.'sary to act as feeders to these railway stations. Now, there is the matter of meeting the expendi­ture and maintenance of these roads. I honestlv admit that, as the Government own the railways, they should bear the initial

[ll1r. Stopford.

expenditure of constructing the roads; but thev must safeguard the interests of the public, and I would suggest that, wherever roads were constructed from public money, the Government should have the right to review the land valuations in that district, together with the rate charged by the shire council, so as to protect themselves and see that they would have a rate which would be adequate to meet the proper maintenance of the road after it had been built. I find, in visiting New South \Vales, that one quarry, situat<'d in the Port Kembla district, is supplying the stone necessary for the whole of that district.

Mr. PETERSON: Supplying Sydney, too.

1\fr. STOPFORD: Yes; well, that is in that district. Any man who has engaged in mining must readily recognise that you can cheapen the cost of metal by the amount that you handle. In Queensland it is a common thing to go into a district and see a ballast pit in any ~tate of disrepair, and you will he informed that it is the railway balla't pit. Not far away you will find the shire balla,.t pit. Somewhere else you will find another ballast pit. Not one of them will be in proper order. If we are going to live after the war, we have to organise. I;: is nothing to our credit that such a posi­tion exists to-day. \Vhat I desire to see is a properly constitute,J authority, who will not have existing a st:.tte of things like that, but who will have modern methods of dealing >nth the quarrying and modern nwthods of outlaying and mapping thG di~,trict.

Xow, the quection of finance comes in. As cne of those who have travelled round tho a;:;ricnltural centres, I haYe always held the opinion-and I still hold it-that the Railway Department has not been properly treated in the matter of the enhanced value placed on land and timber that has been brought about by the expenditure of the monev on which the railwavs are asked to earn 'interest and redemption.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC INSTRUCTION: I-I ear, hear!

1\fr. STOPFORD: If you go to the Ather­ton district yotl will find there land which originally was sold very cheaply that would not bo utilised to-day were it not for the fact that the railway has paPsed through that disicrict. Now, the Government are enabied to obtain a land kx, and particu­lar!> ~ land ta'.: on undeveloped land. Per­son~lly, I believe that the Government should place the unde.-eloped land tax at such a height that it would be absolutely impo'-··ib!e and unprofitable for any man to hold rich, fertile land without putting it to a use that would benefit the community while other men arc clamouring for that land.

Mr. P.IYNE: Right alongside the railway, too.

M:r. STOPFORD: Yes. During the com­mission's visit to the Atherton district, an advertisement appeared in the Cairns "Post" of 11th May, 1918, as follows:-

"Tenders are invited up till 30th June, 1918, for the purchase and removal of all timbers on the undermentioned selec­tions at Malanda :-Portions 32 and 33, 56, 94, 86, 75, 67, 87. Time for removal,

Supply. [30 AUGUST.] Supply. 1887

two and a-half years. Tenders to state price per block or sum for the lot. Terms : Cash, or as may be arranged. A deposit of 10 per cent. with tender.­P. J. DOYLE."

That struck me as being peculiar. \Ve were sent to that district to report upon a pro­posal to give railway facilities to people who were battling under the most adverse ·circumstances and conditions, ten miles from the railway terminus, and yet at Malanda­in the midst of that fertile belt of country, almost adjacent to the railway station, a3 it were-are six or seven valuable blocks of land that are held bv a man who is carrying on a big business in the town of Cairns. This man had become possessed

of these blocks of land in the ordinary way; that is to say, he was in a position to. buy out those men who had fulfilled the residen­tial qualification. But seeing that h~ was ~tiU able to tender for the removal of hmber from those areas, that is sufficient indica­tion of the amount of d<)velopment work thab was done on those places. I have gone to the trouble of obtaining some information which, in order to get it into " Hansard " without· reding 1t, I will ask the permission of the House to have taken as read.

The CHAIRMAN : Is it th<l pleasure of the Committee that the extract be taken as read'?

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SCHEDULE OF MALA~DA SELEC!'IVXS.

I

Por.J Parish. I i I gr ~ ll § ,_; I

\.. ~ Date of I Xame of Original ~ 6' ~ ~ t ~ I · rea. Selection. Selector. -§ ~ 81·= ..S §

~ !::' !:J;C),

I~~~ §" .. ;.;'i

Remarlo.l.

---- ---- ------------'--- --- --------------'·

a. r. 323 3

p. i 4

! -'i. a.:

A. C. Hickev .. 82 & '· ~Iaianda ... I ~~ ! 186 2 30

15-ll-07

13-12-07 , (Enf!lish Group) i Herb. }1cCann

36 8 IA.F. 173

36 8 i 232

Tran~ferred to P. J. Doyle, 2~-5-U.

Tran~ferred to P. J. Doyle, 13-10-13. ::-;ow freehold.

SG 116 38 i (English Group ' James Do:ylt-", ... 40 0 I 297

40 0 1 :: 303

Tl'nnsferred to P .. J. Doyle, 30-4-14. Com·erted to c.S. o97. Now freehold.

(Cairns Group)

75 186 0

91 3 26

Jame'4 DoylA . . \Ithac" Group)

S. D. Davison (lthaca Group)

40 o 1 , 296

I

Converted to U.~. 588. Now freehold.

Tr:tnsferred to :Jlq_rtha )lnlvay 1spinster), 5-5-09; transferred to Alice D,)yle, wife of Jas. Day le, 2-8-10; transferred to P. J. Dovle, 30-"1-14. Coc­nrted to·u.s. 590.

113 'l 31 S. D. Davison (Itbaca Group)

\ ... 1400,302

I

Transfern,d to }larthn.1Iulvay (s:11insterJ. 5-5-(•9; transferred to .Alice Doyle, ·wife of Jas. Doy1e, 2-8-10; transferred to P. J. Dorle, 30-!-14. Con­·v,,rted to'r.s. 600 .

94 HO l 0 C. C. Baxler-T)Tie .;c 1il'lb Group) ... \ 40 0 i , 3v7

Tralpffrrcd to P. J. Doyle, 1-9-10. Converte\l to li.R . 637. Xow freehold.

-----------------------Tb-~ 1Yl:Jle of the above selections were tuJceu np as Agricultural Farms. 'l'othl, 1,155 acrr;:,

l\Ir. STOPFORD: I do that, because I de­sire to say that the holding of the so areas by onP man in Cairns, who is not utilising them for the benefit of the State, clear!-: shows :'ou 'vhv that particular railwaY i,,. not a pnying pr~pr>~ition. This extract gives the areas and the tenure under whieh they were held, and hov.· he became po,.-;essod of them. That is the reason why I want to get it into "Hansard," so that the people mav know cxactlv-thosc particularly who arc squealing against the undeveloped land bx -the objects the Govemment have in view in imposing taxation of that description.

Hon. J. G. APPEL: But what about the undeYeloped land?

Mr. STOPFORD: I am dealing with the undevekped land tax, and I am claiming that portion of that undeveloped land tax should r.:o back to the railway authorities ·wIn ha" • er 'ated the value, and who could ~re. ate a :·.:·eater value by utilising portions of 1t m makmg decent roads, so that the selec­tcrs wLo are struggling to-day under adverse circumstances might have better access to the railway stations.

Mr. OORSER: Where did the extract come from?

Mr. STOPFORD: I obtained the extract by asking for it horn the Lands Dep,,rtment. I certainly hope that the Government will a pp roach this matter even to the extent ~f getting a report upon it. ·valuable land 1s lying idle to-day in the State _that ~'?1~ld bo utili·"ed to bcthr advantage Jf f.' mht1eo were off, red tJ Lrmcrs to reach the market. Valuable areas of land that could be put to productiYe u;:;A aro L~cing u: .. ;-'d to.-day ~~or grazinf( purposes. I can see that d1fficu1bes will ccJllfront this or an" other Government in an f'xtension of their· raih·ay syblc "•m. but I believe that with a proper Sootem of roads much of the deficit th:t confronts the country to-day might be swept away.

There is another matter I desire to touch upon, and that i·'· t~e value of a yigorous system of prospectmg to replemsh our mineral resources as far as copper ancl gold are concerned. On my first entry into thi~ House I condemned previous Governments because they had not carried out a proper and scientific system of mineral prospectmg and scientific research. The pr0,ent Govern­ment may reasonabl:c claim that financial difficulties have confronted them since they first attained the Government benches, but

Mr. Stopford.]

1888 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

they are in the same position as previous Administrations regarding their method of testing the various mineral fields of this State. :\'o properly organised system has yet been undertaken. The hon. member for Bowen on previous occasions has advo­cated a proper geological survey of all the islands along the coast of Queensland. I am going to make an apl?eal to the Minister himself through the Mmister for Public In­struction to give effect to the request of the hon. member for Bowen. \Ye have to recog­nise that the mineral resources of this Dtate have stood to the State in times of stress in years gone by .. \Ve may at any time bo again confronted by periods of that descrip­tion, and unless we arc prepared as a Go­vernment to take up the work previously done by the hardy old digger, who, unfortu­nately, is going out of existence, we have got to recognise that our mineral returns are going to dwindle year by year. In con­nection with the Mount Morgan Technical College, I made a requr't to the Minister for Publia Instruction, which I believe should be made to the Minister for Mines-that is, that a certain sum should be placed at their disposal for research work in the treatment of the flotation process of dealing with copper and other metals.

The SECRETARY FOI! PCDLIC INSTRCCTION: The matter is under sympathetic considera­tion.

Mr. STOPFORD: I am glad to get tho assurance of the Minister that it is under sympathetic consideration, but it was not with any desire to growl that I brought the matter forward. It was morelv to show how the men in the mining in"dustrv aro prepared to do their work as far as research is concerned, and I think they have a just claim on the Government to clo their por­tion of that work also. I only hope that if the amount on the Estimates is not n~ large as may be found ncccssarv for the development and prospect·ing of our re­sources, the 'rr..::asurcr, 'vho has had cxpcri~ enco as a miner, will sec that a ccr tain sum is pro,-icled for that purpose on the Suppkmcntary Estinntes.

GOVERNMEXT l\lEo!BEI!S: Hear, hear ! ),[r. B.\ YLEY !l'ittsn·orth): So far as

reYenue is con ~'~rncd. thcte is not n gn3at deal to cavil at -in the Financial Stt<j.emcnt. The c1ricf troublo lies in the facl tkLt the expenditure !1a 1 ,-cry mneh <:>xceeded what was intended when th€ Trea•Luer made hi, S1atument last ;vear. An amoud of £238,853 more l'€Yenue than \VUS anticipated in the Statement in 1917 w H re, .,•i>cd. the total revenue from all sourcE's amOu.ating to £8.~91.482; bui;, in spite of that, we are fare to face with the 'cry large deficit of £409.0JO. 'l.'ho e1qwnditure was £151.1:93 in excess of the estimate. The GoYcrnmf.nt blame the Council for this state of affairs. They s:::y thnt, beL .. lbC the LegislatiYe Coun­cil \Yonld n>lt pasJ lcgi-lation sent up from this Chamber, this deficit h,.c: taken place. Hon. members must agr<:>e that this is not correct, because we know that the revenue exceeded the anticipations of the Treasurer and the Government vNy considerably, and expenditure, naturally, should be based upon the income which is expected to be received. I see. on page 2, that the income tax aceom1ted for no lc'.S than £167,000 more than was estimated; the total income tax came to £967,000. This is equal to the whole revenue which was obtained bv the Liberal Government from all sources of

[Mr. Stopford.

direct taxation in the year 1914-15. This year the Treasurer tells us that he expects no less than £1,154,000 as the result of the income tax. Queensland is the heaviest taxed of any of the States of the Commonwealth, and she is the Queen State of the Com­monwealth. and rich in resources. \Ve have sugar, cattle in yery large numbers. dairy and farm produce, mining wealth, and wool in abundance. But in spite of the great natural wealth of the State, we are the he a vi est taxed of anv State in the Com­monwealth. It does llot speak WE'll for the financial genius-for the care of the Go­vernment in charge of the finances. Then, we have a yery big land tax, amounting to £344,000, and the Treftsurer tells us that he expects this vear i o receive from this source only, £452.,000-the heaviest ]and tax of Australia. \Yhat are the reasons for the deficit? The Government sav that one rea­son is the war, and another 'i·eason the high prices which obtain for the various commo­dities which must be used by the Govern­ment in carrying out GoYernment work. If that is so, how is it that the other States in the Commonwealth do not show a deficit instead of a surplus?

::'v1r. PETEJi'SOc; : Thcv raised fares and freights 20 per cent. '

Mr. BA YLEY: Yes. and this Govern­ment have raised freights on sumc products more than 20 per cent. ; on dairy. produce alone between 40 and 45 per cent. smce they came into power.

GOVERX:l!EXT }lE:IIBEI!S: Xo, no. l\fr. BA YLEY: That is absolutely correct.

[4.30 p.m.] ::\1r. KIRW.\X: Absolutely wrong.

::\Ir. BA YLEY: I ha vc in mY hand a news­papei' cutting, which deals with the financial position of Yictoria, whe1·e they anticipate a surplus of £415,000. This extract reads-

" 1Ielbourne, Thmsday.-The State Premier's policy speech at Oastlemaine to-night contained the following an­nounceL.lents :-

State finance, compared 'vith the Pea­eovk GoYt:-rnn1ent estimate in l:J17, hn­prond to the extEnt of .£396,000. After all m-ing £183,000 for increased raii­\Yayinen's \Y_\gt~", esti1nated surplus for the y0ar io .£415,000. The Government d:-Je:3 not intend to i1nposo new taxa­tion.''

ender a Xational Govemment we find this state of affairs obtains. Time after time members of the GoYernm€nt have buried acr<:ss the Chamber the taunt that in Vic­toria they have had hug0 deficits. :1\ow, there is a chan:;e in the programme. Then we find in ::\ow South \Vales the same state of a!iairs-

" The SLte Treasurer (Mr. Holman) delinrccl his Budg-et to-ni;ht in the LcgLlarive Assonbly. He showed that the combined rcYenue from GoYernmental and business undertaking sources in 1917-18 totalled .£21, ;34,000, against £20.511.000 the previous year, an increase of £923.00. The principal increases were: Railways, £451,000; harbour trust, .£65.000; and water supply and sewerage, .£87,000. }Jr. Holman said the results of the financial vear might be regarded as satisfadorv. ·The vear 1916-17 had ended with a deficit of £268,000, due principally to the railways. During

l~O AUGUST.] Supply. 1889

1917-18 the strike had brought about a lo~s of railway revenue of £814,000, while bringing about direct Government ex­penditure of £188,000. In spite of this, the vear had closed with a surplus of £23,825, which indicated a very definite recoverv in the State's financial equili­brium. · .... The estimated expenditure for 1918-19 was £22,775.000. 11r. Holman said the results of the financial year might be regarded as satisfactory."

And I say so, too. How is it that in spite of the high prices which obtain throughout the length and breadth of Australia the Southern States are in ·mch a flourishing financial condition? Simply because they have Yrise, sane, ec.anoinical Governn1ents­because they are carrying out their affairs on proper business lines. The total amount of money raised last year by direct taxation in Queensland is no less than £2,154,000; considerablv more than double the amount raised bv ·direct taxation during the last vear of the Liberal regime. So far as the i·ailwa "I'S are concerned we find the position is a ·deplorable one financially. The rail­ways previously, year after year, made an immeasurablv better showing. The revenue side is not so bad. It is in the expendi lure that we find the weak spot. The expendi­ture has grmvn up year by year, and thjs vear it will be very much greater than It \va, last >CaT. In 1914-15 the actual loss on the railwavs was less than £2,000. That is the last >ear of th" Liberal Administration. For the vear 1916-17 the total loss amounted to £744:ooo, and in 1917-18 the loss was £1.041,471. \Yhat are the real reasons for this state of affairs 9 \Ye have to admit the real rnson for this tremendous deficit on our railways is not due only to the war and the high prices prevailing at the present time. One reason is that primary and secondary production throughout Queensland have been absoll!tely discoura_ged by ,this Government. Another reason IS that t,,ere has been unnecessary extravagance in the running of the railways. \Ve find that, n:lthough the train mileage was much less last year than in the previous year, a ve1:y much larger staff has been employed. It IS only necessary to go to the Roma Street vards to see ·for ourselves that more men are employed than are actually required. Then \VO find dozens, and perhaps scores, of overhead bridges have been erected during the Jast fe\v yt,ars, costing large sums of money, when they were absolutely not re­quired. On the line from Brisbane to Too­woomba we find oYerhead bridges have been erected in places where one seldom sees more than two or three people at a time. Thou­sands of pounds have been spent in this direction-moiH'V that could verv well ha\·e been saved, especially when money is so scarce. \Ye find, too, that the department has been in the habit of taking coal very long distances along the railway lines, when such a course was absolutely unnecessary.

Mr. F. A. CooPER: I think they ought to grow it in every centre.

Mr. BAYLEY: For a long time coal was taken from Bundanba to Maryborough, for use there in Government departments, when coal of equal quality could have been got from the Burrum coalfield.

Mr. RoBERTS : Better coal.

1918-5 z

Mr. BAYLEY: Yes, perhaps better coal, but this Government deliberately sent coal all the way from Bundanba, in preference to getting it from the coalfields close at hand. All this means additional expense. That is anothci· reason for the heavy deficit shown by the Railway Department for the last twelve months.

Mr. WEIR: You ought to b'" in Mary­borongh and have to depend on the supply of Burrum coal. Then you would know something a bout it.

Mr. BA YLEY : I would like to say a few words in reg"-rd to some of the economies which have been effected hy the Railvmy D~partment. They have economised in one or two directions. For instance, I only ascertained during the last day or two that the Government ha v,e issuRd !instructions; that in future members of Parliament have to pay 2d. if they wish to leave their port. or a parcel at a parc~ls office.

Mr. PETERSO:'i: I have always had to dO> that.

l\Ir. BA YLEY: That is only a very smaH matter. Jt might amount to £1 or £2: extra revenue, and, no doubt, that is the result of the voluminous work put in by the Royal Commission. There are people in Queensland who say that the Royal Com­miosion carried out no good effective work. Yet hei;e we have a recommendation which io going to save at least a few pounds a. yc>u, and help to tide over the difficulties which the Department is labouring under at the nresent time. Even a drowmng man will sn~tch at a straw.

:\1r. PETERSO:'i: And you snatch at two­pence. (Laughter.)

Mr. BAYLEY: And the Government, which is lirifting towards the rocks of bank­rnptcv are even eager to snatch at a pound or h,:o'. Ther8 is another direction in which the Government arc trying to "conomise. It came under mv notice quite recently that a verv deserving class of persons in our State ·are receiving scant acknowledgment fo,. their o-ood services. For a considerable tii;lC pas( the Brisbane General Hospital has been under the absolut(l control of this GoYernment. \Yhat do we find? 1 havE> in my hand particulars of the cond_itions of C>ngagement for :nJ!:trses. Pr9batwners must be over twenty and under thirty years of age and th'!y must be edueated women. \Vha t is this Government prepared to pay a a educated woman between the age of twenty and thirty years? The Government are prepared to pay th~m for the first y~ar £20, out of which they have to provide their own uniforms, shoes, and other su~h articles. The second year they are paid £20 ; the third year, £26 ; and the fourth­war £30. \Vhen an educated woman has completed four years of s_ervice at. hard work in the General Hospital, she IS en­titled to receive the magnificent salary of £30 a year, out of which sh: has to provide· her own uniform. That IS a scandalous state of flffair~.

Mr. RoBER'rS: They do better than that· at Toowoomba.

Mr. BAYLEY: The Toowoomba nurses get far better terms than that, yet this is a Government that pretends to stand for the working man and working woman •. '!nd a Government that demands that a hvmg wage should be paid. Will the member$

Mr. Bayley.]

l.890 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

·of the Government contend for one moment .that £20 a year is a decent living wage for an educated woman between twenty and ··thirty years of age, who has to find a fairly expensive uniform? It would not be a fair living wage even for a member of the Government.

Mr. F. A. COOPER: What is a fair living wage for a farm labourer?

"Mr. BAYLEY: I know farm labourers who are getting at the present time £2 lOo. and £3 per week. I think that is a good living wage for a farm labourer. It cer­tainly compares more than favourably with .a salary of £20 per annum, and find her -own uniform, for an educated woman of between twenty and thirty years of age. I think the Government should be ashamed of themselves for paying such a salary. T~ey took over the hospitd and professed to grve better conditions, but those are the condi­tions under which they are working the :hospital at th9 pre,3rmt time. It is almo't impossible for a young woman in poor cir­eeumstances to take up this work. She cannot live and clothe herself decently. It is only possible for young women who haye parents who are able to keep them \Vhile they are h\•tl'ning their profession whc are in a position to train at the Brisbane General Hospital. But this is one of the economic·'< that the Government ·have effected. I would like now to sa v a few words about the Education De.pa;-tment. I admit that ths -department is pre-<ided over at the present time by a very sympathetic :i\Ii~ister,T and :has a very sympathetic and effiCient Under :Secretary and staff. But, in spite of that fact, -we find that the country centres particul"arly 2re not receiving a fair deal, so far as :new schools and additional school accom­modation are concerned. Not because th« Under Secretarv and his staff are not pre­pared to do the fair t~ing, but because. th.s money is not forthcommg. And why Is It not forthcoming? The Government can find thousands of pounds to erect a State hotel at Babinda; thev can find thousands and tens cf thousands '"of pounds. to erect State fish markets ana butchers' shops; they can find hundreds of thousands of pounds to buy State stations; and yet they cannot find the few paltrv pounds that are required to build new schools and make the necessar,v additions and improvements to schools in the country ·-districts. In mv opinion, edm at ion is more important almost than anything else, and vet there is no money to spend in this direc­iion. There is another matter I .would like to refer to in connection with the Education Department-that is, the system which is at present in vogue of buil-ding schools and -carrying out improvements by the day­labour wstem. A certain dass of school, which could be erected for £230 or £250 a few years ago, will cost £550 and over at the pre"-ent time.

Mr. PETERSOX : Has not the high price of material a good deal to do with it?

Mr. BA YLEY: I am prepared to admit that the price of material has a good deal to do with it; but the amount spent on labour is out of all proportion to what it was a few years ago, and what it should be to-day if the work was carried out under proper conditions. If a school or some other Go­vernment building is to be erected in a <eountry district, we find that a number of

[Mr. Bayley.

labourers are sent up from Brisbane or some other city centre, and their wages go on from the moment thev leave their homes.

Mr. CARTER: Natu;ally.

Mr. BAYLEY: They carry out excavating work, put in the stumps, perhaps, and then a team of ea rpenters is sent along, and they erect the building. Then comes a team of plumbers, and they put on the roof and do any other plumbing work there may be, and the painters follow; -and we find that the work, when completed, costs 50 or 60 per cent. more than it would have cost under proper conditions. I could quote quite a number of instances where school com­mittees have offered to fence in the school properties at a low figure, so that the chil­·dren would have their horses confined, and would not need to chase them over half the countrv, but those offers have riot been accepted because the policy of this Govern­ment is to carrv out all work under the day­labour S\'stem. 'IYhv are not local contractors and loc~l artisans allowed to carry out this work when thev could do it so much more expeditiously and cheaplv? Scores of thou­sands of po'unds' worth 'of school buildings, additions, and improvements are hung up because of the want of money, and. at the same time, the money available iB not being spent to the best advantage, simply in order that the Government may carry out. their fetish of dav labour. Then I would hke to refrer to the subject of ,,ta~chrd~sing scho?l buildino:s. At the present time, If a certam tvpe o( ~chool is required, the timber iB cut o'ut for that -school only, and that means a verv consid<>rable outlav in wages. Large numbers of those schools are required­schools of exactly the same size and pattern­and half a dozen of them could be prepared at the same time at a considerable saving. Probably 30 per cent. or more could be saved in that wav so far as wageB are concerned. Yet, so fai-' as I can ·discover, the Gover~­ment have not taken steps to standardise m anv wav. I would urge the Government to do' something in this direction. 'yit~ a view to reducing the cost of school bmldmgs, and give the coun~r:v: districts ~- chance of getting the extra bmldmgs and Improvements that are required. . . I wouJ.d like now to say a. few words about the State stations. On page 11 of the Trea­surer's Financial Statement it is asserted that the stations have been exceedingly suc­cessful, and that they haYe shown a large profit. 'I'hey certainly should be very profit­able because they are run under exception­allv' favourable conditions. The Treasurer said last vear the profit on the stations was £102.800. ·The Auditor-General. in his report, put the profit a.t only £15,477.. So _far, \~e have not received the .'l.uditor-General s report for this last year, so that we cannot tell what, in his opinion, h":s been the result of the working of the statiOns for the last financial vear. \Ye find that twent:-·-seven State butchers' shops were in operation on 30th June last. They should certainly be a payable proposition, run as t~ey a1:e under the verv best conditions, supplied wrth meat at from 3d. to 3~d. per lb., whereas private butchers have to pa\' about twice as much. Then the State shops give no credit, they have no delivery, and they have ~een estab· lished in closely-settle-d centres. Under such circumstances they certainly should be ex­ceedingly payable propositions. And the profits made from the State butchers' shops

Supply~ (30 AUGUST.] Supply. 1891

<are certainly not so high as one would imagine they might be, when we take into ·'COnsideration the favourable circumstances under which they operate. It was expected that, when the State statione were estab­lished, they would supply the State butchers' shops \vith meat ; but, so far as I am a ware, not a single carcase of beef or mutton has been sent from the State stations to the shops. The whole of that meat is frozen or

•chilled. Mr. CARTER: Ko.

J:\Ir. BA YLEY : I was speaking to the manager of one of these shops no later than this morning, and I asked him. "Have YOU any fresh meat?" and he said, "Oh it is all fresh. It is all chilled, from the' meat· works, you know; but it is all good stuff." We know that all the meat sold in those shops has come from the meatwoi·ks and is chilled or frozen. The Premier told a very prettv etorv when he was away in Perth at the conference, when he '"as in ::\Ielbourn~ on his way back; and at other placee.

Mr. CARTER : He told the truth. Mr. BAYLEY: \Yell, we can judge that

for ourselve>. At one time he said-,, The succes.> of the GoYernment's

policy is well known. The State shops haYe never been short of meat since they con1n1enced operations."

I should think not. Small reason for the State shops to be short of meat when the GoYf'rnment haYe the right to commandeer what meat they require. under a forced agreemPnt!

l\lr. CARTER: You know that is not true.

Mr. BAYLEY: It is a forced agl'eement. 'The Premier, speaking in Melbourne, made the statement. that the meatworks proprietors knew perfectly \Yell that if they did not sign the agreement they would be forced to -do so. I can show it to YOU in black and white.

l\lr. CARTER : No, you .. ;annat. l\Ir. BA YLEY: This is tlw report of the

·"Courier" of 1st July-" Speaking at the Gaiety Theatre last

night, :Yir. Ryan referred to the meat position in Queensland. He said that the Government had stations of its own, so that if it found that the prices which the cattle barons were getting for their bullocks were soaring it telegraph?d to its own n1anagers for a fe,v hundred. fats. and down came the prices. Ap· plauBe !"

It wnnded very nice. Mr. PETERS ON : It sounded truth:ul.

Mr. BA YLEY: On no one occasion have the GoYernment Fent down a few hundred fats. As a matter of fact, the greatest num· ber of cattle from the State stations evm· put into Enoggera saleyards on one day was eighty-eight, yet, according to this, they send for a few hundred fats, and '' down come the prices." Only a very small nnmbe1· of cattle from the State stations have been sold in the Xc\vmarket yards.

i\Ir. F. A. CooPER : They scned their purpose.

Mr. B~\.YLEY: ThE·y wld 10,000 in one mob to ?\ew Sonth \Vales speculators, and thousands have gone to other places; and, although we know that this Government established the State stations ostensib!v to ;provide meat for their State shops, they ha,·e

consistently sent bullocks and other fat stock to the highest market. They do exactly what they blamed private enterprise for doing-selling their fat stock to the best possible market. T~ey have been selling at Enoggera to a certam extent, but they have been sending thousands and thousands of their fat stock to Kew South \Vales and South Australia, and getting just abont double what they pay the meatworks for meat sold in their State butchers' shops.

Mr. CARTER: Kot true.

Mr. BAYLEY: Because the hon. member says it is not true is no criterion.

Mr. \VEIR: \Yhat about the statmnent you made about a man at the Trades Hall, and then denied it?

Mr. BA YLEY : I did not deny any such thing in this House, and hon. members know it perfectly well. On that occasion I made the statement that the man had a different name to what I thought he had, and hon. members know it. '

Mr. CARTER: You delii;erately ~et out to libel a man.

Mr. BA YLEY : This is on a par with the statement the Premier ma-de in various centres throughout Queensland, that the dairymen were getting no less than 2d. a _lb. for their butter more than any other darry­men in Australia. That \Vorks out at 18s. 8d. per cwt., and at the time the statement was made the price of but.ter was fixed at exactly the same all over Australia to the farthing, and had been for about six months previously, and yet the Premier ma.de that statement and took the credit to his own GoYernment. Now, I am willing to take a charitable Yiew and sav that the Premier made a mistake, that he was earried away by his zeal and enthusiasm for the caucus cause, that per­haps he was misled by some of his mp· porters \Yho we1:e not quite as reliable as the Pr0mier mav be himself. Anvhow. the fact remains that the Premier nuide that state­ment on more than one occasion, and that his statements can be proved, and have been preyed. to be absolutely unreliable and inl'olTeC't.

Mr .. BcTLER : Give us his own words.

11r. BAYLEY: The Premier's own words . to me pri,·ately ·were, "I had no intention of saying anything tha~ was not true. I .":as misinformed." I believe he was mlS!ll· formed. I am quite prepared t'o admit that the Premier was misinformed on that point. No fewer than 10.000 cattle have been sold to New South \Vales speculatDrs from Mount Hutton, and others haYe been sent through Newmarket.

Mr. CARTER: \Vhat are you reading from?

Mr. BA YLEY: I am reading Irom what is supposed to be ': Fin<_~ncial Statement: ~t is not reallv a Fmanc1al Statement: 1t 1s really an apology on behalf of the Govern­ment for the bad state of the finances of Queensland and a enlogy by the Go,·ernment of their own State enterprises. They have been commandeering the beef for their own shops at 3d. to 3~~1. per lb.. and charging the Imperial authorities 4~cl. for the meat to be used for the Imperial troops oYerseas. I sav that if a fair price for meat in Queens· la;}d at the present time is 3d. to 3~d. per lb.. what right have the Government to eharge the Imperial Government 4~d. ? 91" 'if 4~d. is a fair price to charge the Impenal

jJ.f r. Bayley.]

lS93 Supply. [ASSE~IBLY.] Supp'y.

authorities for meat obtained in Queensland at the present time, why should they com­mandeer it at 3d. to 3~d.? This money does not come out of the pockets of the owners of the meatworks, but out of the pockets of the men who produ~e the bullocks.

On page 10 of the Statement we find a reference to the State sawmills, which, in spite of the great hopes held out in respect of them previous to their establishment, have made e. loss for last year. The manager is blamed for incompetency, and has been dis­charged and a new manager has been ap­pointed. \Ve find that timber is clearer now than when those sawmills were established. \Vhat is the reason? One reason is the great royalties being charged by the Government. I have here a cutting from the "Courier"-

" :\Iaryborough, August 20. " A well-known timber merchant, in

the course of conversRtion to-day, sup­plied some interesting information on the timber trade. He pointed out that, in a large measure, the recent increases in the price of timber were attributed b the action of the Government in con­tinually increasing royalties, and in the restricted quantities -offered 'for sale. This naturally led to an increase in the price of all sawn timbers, forcing up the cost of building, which would r~suH in an increase of rents, the price of furniture, and Yery con,si-derably add to the cost of workers' dwellings. There had been increases in ro,altie" on all cJa,ses of timbqr. Taking' maple as an instance, he etated, he had been informeu on good authority th,at the Govern .. ment had increased royaltie,; till thev were now 20,. per lOO superficial fed That nwant that, before logs were re­moved, purchasers had to pay, in royaltc' nlone, 20s. for each 100 superficial feet ·)f timber in the log. That "-ould rQsult in an increaee in the retail price of maple of at least 4d. per foot. He had recently made investigation into the wastage in maple log', and found that 22 pc•r cent. of the conh•nts were lo,,t in ~apwood {tlone. That 'rould mean that the GoYernment would charge 20s. ro:;·aity on actually 78 feet of log ti1nber."

That is one of the reaeons why the price of timber is higher now than it was when the Government established State sawmil!B.

They claimed -at that time, and [5 p.m.] had claimed for a long· time pre-

viouslv, that timber merchants were making huge profits, that thev were making princely fortunes out of th~i'r busi­nesses, and yet with all the advantages which accrue to a Government undertaking they cannot mnke both ends me<'t in con­nection with the State sawmills. although the price of timber has increased consider­ably since the sawmills were established. With reference to the railway refreshment­rooms, I would ask what was the object of the Government in taking over those room6? Was it not to provide good food at reasonable prices to the travelling public? The food is all right; no one can quarrel with its quality, but have the Government reduced the price? At th~ presPnt time if a poor man or woman is travelling by rail­way and wants a dinner at one of the refresh­ment rooms, they have to pay 2s. 6d. for it. That is too much; it is an extortionate

[Mr. Bayley.

figure. There is absolutPly no rea5on why th(l Government should charge 2s. 6d. for a dinner at a refreshment-room, ·when e.n. eqmtlly good meal can be obtained for half that amount outside.

l\Ir. KIRWAN: \\'here?

Mr. BA YLEY: In Parliament House, for one place, and the hon. member is glad enough to takf) advantage of that fact.

Mr. KIRWAN: You cannot get it outside. Go down the street and try.

Mr. BAYLEY: With regard to State ineurance, this office ha~ been a great suc­cess, I admit. But with the conditions under which it is run it should be a success. In the first place, insuranc~ under the \Vorkers' Compensation Act has bel:'n made compul­sory by 11>tatutc. Every man who employs labour has been forced to insm·e his work­men, and the Government have done away with oppositicn in this business, so that it is almost impossiblf) for thG State Insurance Office to be otherwise than highly succes'­ful. At the same time, I was glad to see State insurance started, so fa1· as regards ·workers' accident policies, as it vvas high time thfl.t the workers w<;re protected in that way.

At page 10 of the Finencial Statement certain space is devoted to describing the State Produce Agency. This Agency has not been nearly so succ~ssful up to date as the Gowrnment anticipated it wonld be. \Ye find that the Agency has been buying and sdling produce on exactly the same !inn and under th~ same conditions as ordinar:­produce agents buy and sell. But the worst feature of the bnsinc·sg is that thev have imported very large quantities of l)roducc from the Southern States, and have brought it into comp~tition with produce grown in Queenslanll. It i·, not a fair thing to use the mo11ey of the State-the money of the produc•'l".l included-to import produce and bring it into competition with the proclnco cE t!lC' farmers of Queensland. \Vhc.:n the primarv nrorlucer:-1 aro taken do~IYll in this way, the- \Yhole State suffers as a natu_ral consequencr-. The farn1ers are not gcthng as big prices for many of thei1· products a"' th~y should get, and I know that in many cases people are buying produce from the St<J.te Procluce Agency and reselling it el,,,. where at a profit. I had -dealings with tho State Produc'' Agency, and I am pr~pared to admit that I got satisfaction, but I hold th11t such an institution should not encourage thf' in:.portation of large quantities of produr,, from the Southern StatH.

Jl.lr. KIRWAN : Arc there no other people> importing produce?

Mr. BA YLEY : Other people, no doubt, arc i1nporting, but that is no reason why a State Agency ;;hould do it. The Government are so taken up ,,-ith the erection of their State hotels, butchers' shops, and fish shops, attending the Perth Conference, and things of that sort, that thev have no time for doing anything which \vill make ~he nation better or improve the moral standl!lg of the people. Only a short while ago a genuine attempt was made by a member on this eide· of the House to reduce the gambling evil in Queensland to some extent, and quite recently a genuine attempt was made to restrict thc> hours dnring which intoxicating dl'ink could be sold throqghout the length ami breadth of Queensland. What was the-

Supply. [30 AUG"C"ST.] 18"93

>·esult? This Government, who claim to represent the people and to aim at improv­ing the morality and happiness of the people, turned the propositions down. They did that by bringing forward a motion which does away with private members' day for thP remainder of the session. That alone shows how much the Government really are interested in uplifting the people and enab­ling them to enjoy greater prosperity and a greater measure 'of happiness. There has nner been a time in the historv of the State when there ha-' been a greater need fo · these reforms than there is at the present time, when a great war is raging and the Empire requires every possible help. 'The very best section of the supporter' of the Government in the past are keenly disap­p )inted with the action of the Gov·ernment in t,!]ese matters, and that disappointment may b<' heard on every hand. Large numbers Df people who have bePn firm supporters o£ and believers in the Government are greatly disappoint0d over the actions of the Gowrnment in the past, and this Financial Statement is not calculated to increase the .confidence of the people of Queensland.

Mr. \V. COOPER (llosql'ood), who was received with Government " Hear, hears!" said: As a new member. I desire to expre<s my gratification at being here as the repre­sentative of one of thee most closelv-settled agricultural districts in the State. 'Now, I ha.-e taken keen interest in the Statement and the allegations made bv members of the Opposition in connection with this party as opponents of the man on the land. If the return of at least fivf' new members to this House is anv indication of dissatisfaction being expres.i•:l by the farmers of the State, i~ is a 1nost ren1arkable \VUY of expressing di,·atisfaction of the actions· of the Gm·ern­ment in the last three year,.

GoYERX:IIEXT 11EoiBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. KIRIYAX: Let us hope they will con­-tinue to expre•s it in that \Yay.

:\h. W. COOPER: I also have heard ex­pressions con.-eyed to the members of this ~ide of th": House, as far as the loyalty of the other side of the Hou·3e is concerned. In my opinion, if there is any disloyal party iil Queensland as far as thi ... elective Cham­ber is concerned, it applies to the Opposition and not to the Government.

GoYERN:,IENT :\lE)IBERS : Hear, hear !

J\1r. \Y. COOPER : I am quite satisfied that ha·d the Opposition taken up quite a <different attitude in regard to securing men to go to the front to help the Empire-of which I quite approve-\ve would have had a greater number of men volunteering to go and fight for the freedom, not only of Aus­tralia, but also of the British Empire. All we have to consider is the attitude which was taken up bv our dailv Press in conr,ec­tion with those. men who' have been asked -to go and fight for the freedom of Australia and of the Empire. You can take both referenda as an example. \Vhat was the attitude taken up by the conservative Press of Australia and those who were advocating the loyalty of every man towards the British Empire? They went out on to every recrnit­ing platform and 5aid that any man who refused to volunteer was a \Vaster, a loafer, a shirker, or an I.\V.\Y. In my opinion, ihere is only one class of people in the whole

of the Commonwealth to whom can be applie-d the meaning which is given to I. W. W. The capitalistic class of Australia, and of the whole world, in my opinion, are th8 only people who will not work. (Hear, hear!) They livG upon the proceeds of the labour of the men who are to-day fighting in the firing line in France and protecting the interests, not only of the workers, but of the capitalists as well. During the last election, when I contested the seat which I now have the honour to hold, I found that the onl) charge they could make against me was that I belonged to the Labour party, and that I was ab,olutely disloyal. Not only was I disloyal, but every other citizen of Queensland who rdnsed to be coerced into voting for conscription also was disloya 1 I can go further than that, and say that con­scription was ·not wholly defeated by the Labour party. They may have taken up the position that they preferred the volun­tary system to conscription, but they were not disloyal to the people of Australia, nor were they disloyal to the British Empire. I maintain that the party which took up the position that every man shoul-d go to the front, and at the same time, when the ques­tion of whethe1· it should be compulsory or voluntarv went to the ballot-box voted against conscription after howling conscrip­tion, "'ere the disloyal party, and not those who advocated the voluntary system in pre­ference to conscription. To show what was the attitude taken up by the conservative Press, and also by those who are supporting the party in opposition-! do no~ .say par­ticularly members of the Opposition-they said : " \Ye are loyal, and we want every­bodv to fight; but at the same time we will support a party which will take away the votes and rights of citizenship of the native­born of Australia." If there is any one man occup,:·ing the position of a member of this House to-day who has had a very good op]1ortunitv of observing the attitude taken up bv the' native-born of Australia who are of en'emy descent, I am that person, because I maintain there are more electors in my elcctora t" of enemy origin than there are in anv other electorate in the State. I have had the opportunity of observing the atti­tude taken up towards the war by these native-born of enemy origin. I was selected by the organisations in my district to repre­sent Labour in the war councils of the shire. While in 'that position I had a reasonable opportunity of observing how they were pre­parC'd to take their share and fight for the British Empire.

GoYERX)JEXT ME;IIBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. W. COOPER : I wili give you three example,. One is that of a man-a German, boi·n in Gcrmany-residing at Rosewood, who has five sons. He never for one moment objected to one of his sons volunteering and going a \vay to fight for Australia and the British Empire. He took up the posi­tion that he believed Australia enjoyed the freest Constitution the worl-d has eYer •een, and he was prepared to allow, or persuade, his sons to go over and do their bit for the countrv of his adoption, and to which they reallv belonged, as they were native­born. ::'\ative-born Germans of Australia have said to me, "Well, Mr. Cooper, we really resent the attitude of the Federal Government. or any party, taking away our right to citizenship. v\'e maintain that, if "·e are in any way Australians, we should

Mr. W. Cooper.]

1894 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

at least enjoy the privileges which are ex­tended to every Australian, whether he is of British or of any other national descent." (Hear, hear !) They say, " Can you expect us to go and fight for a country or Empire which 1·efuses to give us the rights of citizenship?" On that \Yar Council I know that there were young men quite willing to volunteer and go to the front ; but the mo1nent the GoYernn1ent said, " \Ye suspect you of disloyalty," they said, "We are not prepared to go, because if we go the 'lightest mistake on our part will be attributP.d to disloyalt~-. and we may be shot for making a little bit of a mistake." There is not a man in the firing- line to-dav ,,-ho is infallible and not liable to make a 'mistake. If that is ihe opinion of these men, it is no wonder that they have not volunteered in the numbers that might have been expected.

Personally, I am quite in accord with the sc•ntimonts expressed by the hon. member for :Mount C\lorgan as far a'l the primary pro­duc€1' is COilCel'ned, and on the question of closer s ·ttle011ent and the advisability of giving the man on the land a fair and reaeonable deal. I am of opinion that no Government-not even the Labour Govern­ment-ho. ve gone the length they might ha vc gone. There is no State in the Common­wealth which has [(rt:~ter opportunities of bringing about dosor 'ettlcment than the State of Queensland. \Ye have vast areas of land which might be cut up and made availa!-lo to farmers and their sons who ha H' go no out in the past and pioneered the State. and sufferer! grH1t privations in doing s0 .. They should have. an opportunity of takmg; up land under the most favourable conditions which it is possible for anv Go­vernment to f'i,-e them. (Hear, hea1: !) I represent a district which affords the best c•xample of closer settkment in the Com­monwealth-that is the Rocewood electorate. I shall be glad at any time to take any hon. member over my electorate, and show him th" conditions with regard to closer settlement there. In the district round the town of Marburg-the name of which has now been chang-ed to Townshend-vou will find that the a\~erage area under c1iltivation is not more than 45 acres. '\Vhen I went to Townshend, between twenty and twenty­five ;vears ago. the country comprised in the majority of the holrlings that are now cleared and under cultivation bv settlers ·who are no\V in a prosperous State was nothing but a brigalow standing scrub. I have been bJld b·; various old men in that district that, when thev first settled there under a Liber'!ll Government, with no facili­tie' to get their produce to market, the far­iners' \Vivos antl daug-hters carried two kerosene tins of water ~no less than seven miles on their backs to supply their house­holds. \Vhen men go cut under those con­ditions and raise up families, and return a large revenue to the State. the least we can do is to give them a fair and rea~on­able deal. The Liberal Gov€rnment. when in power-! am going to be fair with them -built a line to ::Uarburg. but they built it under the guarantee system. ?'-lo more unfair system ever E'xisted. as far as gtnng a fair deal to the agricultural settlers in Queensland was concenwd, than the guaran­tee railwav svstem. Prior to the establish­ment of t'hat' svstem, the Government had built lines out to the \Vest for the squatters, and never charged them one penny. Yet theso poor. unfortunate settlers who had taken up this land were required to guarantee

[Jir. W. Cooper.

the railwav line. The land was, perhaps,. good land: but it was very difficult to mak& it a payable proposition under the condi­tions on which they took it up. There is not a settler in that district that I have come in contact with but what has expressed satisfaction and gratitude at the action of the Labour narty in removing that burden from their onoulders. (Hear, hear!) During the election the Labour part:v was charged with being responsible for the building of that line under the Railway Guarantee Act. I am not going to den:v that that was so, because I am under the impression that such was the case; but I also know that after th<> Labour party once took charge of the rfreasury benches, seeing that the burden pressed so heo vily upon the people who wore labouring under it, they were fair enouijh to repeal the Act. If the Labour party w1ll continue in that strain there is no fear that the people of Queensland will not get a. fair deal from them. tHear, hear 1)

There are other method,; which might help the mcc11 on the land and the people of Queensland generally. There is not a mem­ber of this House hut is quite well aware that our policv is to earry on State enter­prises. There· is one thing which I would like to impresB upon the Government, and which will be of yery grNLt importance to

every man who has gone out to [5.30 p.m.] can-e a home for himself upon

the land and that is-that they should establish as ~oon as possible a State factory for the manufacture of agricultural machinery, and give the farmers a reason­able opportnnitv of purcha•cmg same at a moderate cost direct from the factory, and thus cut out the middleman's profit. I can speak with Bome authority on this. matter, a, mv trade is that of an agr~culturai machi"nen maker, to which I sen·ed my time when a boy. I regret Yery much !hat the_ moment the protectiYe tariff on agrtcultural machinery in :::\ew South \Vales was removed. it had tl1e effect of closing uJ:l numbers of shops whic-h "'ere producing agricultural machinery for the farmers. I suppo;;e the fe.rmer gets the present mad1inery that _he 1s using at, perhaps, a l!tpe reduced priCe· to himself; but I "ay, w1tnout fear of con­tradiction. that the maehmery that the farmer io. using to-day, so far as mowing n1achines, hayprt:sses, plough~, harro'":s, and cultivators are concerned, IS not 111 the eamc class us the machinery that was manu­factured in the colonial shops in and around the Hunter River. I am quite satisfied that, if we establish an agricultura] machinery factory, conducted by ~his. Government, and' produce machinery whiCh IS adapted for t~e. cultivation af land in Queensland, we ,nil be conferring upon the farmPr and those who· follow him a great benefit.

I must express gratification at hearing the· remarks of the hon. member for :Mount l\llorgan, :\fr. Stopford, upon main roads. Throughout Queensland we have local governing bodies administering the means of transit to our railwayc-. Those local governing bodies are not giving the eatis­ft•ction ',vhich might be expected from them, and the reason for that is that they have not got and cannot get, a sufficient amount of mo~ev to carrv out their work in an efficient mann~er. Of ·course, we ·do not expect-I want to b& hone·st-I do not expect locaf governing bodies to tax themselves in order­tc· bring about anything like an adequate

Supply. [30 AuausT.] Supply. 1899

system of transit to our railways. I feel sure that they will not do it. I feel that they are in the position o! an ordinary member of Parliament, and, i£ taxation can be avoided, they will avoid it. Thus they have gone on, year in and year out, with roads that are deplorable, and which are materially keeping back prodl!ction in Queensland. I happened to have the honour, while Ih·ing i;• New South \Vales, of being one of the first members elected to a municipal council under the late Local Government Act of New South Wales. Prior to that Act being passed, all the roads in New South \Vales were under the supervision of the Government, and were controlled by the GoYernment. Anyone who has gone over the roads of New South Wales prior to that Act being passed must express great satisfaction at the splendid condition of those roads, which were constructed at so low a cost. iVhat happened? After the Act had been passed, and th.'l !oral governing bodies had taken control of the roads and bridges of that State. they bccanw dilapidated in a few yeHrs, because of the neglect of thos~ bodies; and the municipality to which I belonged, after an existence of fiye years, 'vas con1-pelled to ask the Governme>nt to make special grants to help them maintain the roads in an efficient condition. On many ocra•.ion', I may say, they did not get it. However. that does not alter the case. Every railway that we build into an agricultural district 01 into any other district is very essential, but if the railway is essential, so are the roads which are to act as feeders to that line'. If we can bring about a svstem which will proYide good roads for thP 'man on the land, and enable him to get his produce to the market in the shortest pocsible time, we will be conferring upon the man on the land, and not only on the man on the land but on the people of Queensland, the greatest benefit possible.

Mr. BEBBINGTON : How would you raise the money? That is the difficulty.

Mr. W. COOPER: There are very many ways of raising the money. I do not mind whether .-ou raise the money bv loan or bv direct taxation upon the rnan" who is best able to bear it, so long as WE' give the man 011 the land a reasonable opportunity of getting his <tuff to market after he has pro­duced it. I hope the hon. member. as a representati.-e of an agricultural .district, will not object to that statement.

Mr. BEBBIC';GTON: Providing you do not put it on to the land tax.

Mr. W. COOPER: I am quite satisfied, as far as the small landholder is concerned, that he is quite prepared to pay his share of taxation. The hon. member has raised the question of taxation, and he represents, as I understand, an agricultural ,district, yet we find him opposing a land tax upon the pastoralists, who are best able to bear the burden, rathE'r than give the small land­holder .a reasonable opportunity of getting decent roads to bring his produce to market.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: You people put it on the farmer aB well.

Mr. W. COOPER: The hon. member for Drayton, it vwuld appear from his state­ments, is the only man in this Chamber 'vho holds a monopoly of the knowledge which is absolutely essent.ial for tlie prosperity of the agricultural settlers. I want to say that he

is not the only man who can go out and take· a plough, or a harrow, or any other agri­cultural implement and work the land.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: I should not think so.

Mr. W. COOPER : I heard the hon. mem­ber make the statement that he would go out and do as much work on the land as any man in this Chamber. Although a rr,echanic, I am prepared to .accept the chal­lenge of the hon. member. (Government cheers.) I say I can do as much as he can on the land. I say further, that I can also make the implements; and I question the: ability of the hon. member to do so.

GOVLWCIIEXT ME:.IIBERS: Hear. hear!

Mr. W. COOPER: I have heard the horr_ member casting reflections on this side of the House as being disloyal, and I heard him make otatements such as I would not dare to make in this Chamber. Although he has. stated that he was in favour of conscription, and although he has charged this side of the House with being disloyal, yet I know at the last elections, after making those statements in this Chamber, he went out and shook the hand of a German just the same as anybody else. I am quite prepared to ;,ay that lw was justified in doing so, but I: am not prepared to allow the hon. member to come along h0re and make one stat,_,ment and then go to the electors and in a quiet way s<ty something totally different. (Hear, hear !) If he were honest he ·would got np and say that every native-bow Australian i" entitled to a vot<', whether he voted for con­ccription or not, because every citizen of Aus­traiia is entitled to a citizen's rights. I haYe seen a sample of the hon. member'S' kind of loyalty displayed in my elect<:n:aU: in the town of Rosewood. I saw a typr<:•>< Britisher with "John Bull" stamped on every fe~ture, practically waving the Union Jack and advocating- the internment of every German and everv German descendant in the State. A sulky' passed by containing the descendant of a German in the shape of a very nice-looking- young lady. (Lau_ghter.) The Union Jack quivered in the air; an engagement soon took place, ":nd to·dav. t!'at man who advocated the policy of dnvmg everv German out of the State or out of the Com"monwealth, is united in the bonds of matrimonv to the dF~cendant of a German. (Laug-hter-.) That is the sort of loyalty we o-et from hon. members on the other side. (Laughter.) That sort of thing is absolute hypocrisy. When I went. on to the platfo_rm I said that every native-born Australian was entitled to a vote, and, if he voted for me, I was plea,ed that he gave .me hi& _vc;t.e. I would always advocate the policy of grvmg everv citizen of Australia a vote so long as he has not proved himself b;,- his .actions to be disloyal.

GovERN1IENT :1-iE:liBERS: Hear, heart

Mr. "\V. COOPER: Charges have been ma•de a O"ainst the Government. and aga~nst the Tre~surer in particuiar, of announcmg a deficit. I am not going to dwell on the matter of the Railwavs Guarantee Act, be­cause I have done so before; but the repeal of that Act hv the Government wiped off ne> k~s than £220,000 of arrears owing in con­nection with railways constructed under the Act and that Sltm would have very materially red~ced the deficit with which the last finan­cial year closed. I do not mind if we have·

Mr. W. Coopfr.)

J.896 Supply, [ASSE::\1BL Y.] Supply.

a deficit, because I am quite satisfied that the State of Queensland is, and will be tor a great number of years, in a state of development, and we must expect to incur <:lefic!ts while we are developing a State of the Importance of Queensland. That being so, I am quite prepared to go out and borrow money to develop the State, even if we have to pay interest, and excessive interest, too because I am satisfied that Queensland can: not stand still ; and, unless we use our best ':nde_avours to bring about progress, W<> must mentably retrogress, and I am of opinion .that we should not do that.

Hon. members on the other side hav<' said tl1at the Gm;ernment have not done as much for the sugar-growN's of Queensland as thev might have done. I do not think they really have done as much for them as they might ha,·e done, judging from what has just taken place in Townshend, o;: Marburg, in connec­tion with the sale and remoyaJ of the sugar­mill that was there. Hon. members mav know that there used to be in existence at JYiarburg a sugar-mill. The reason given b,­the proprietor of that mill for selling it and pulling it down and removing it was that it did not pay to crush the sugar-cane there. I am not surprised that it did not pa_y, '•ee­ing the machinery he had in that mill. No sugar-mill could hope to pay in a place like .Marburg with the quantity of cane that was grown there, and particularlv when that mill did not possess the up-to-date machinerv that is in existence in other mills. The reason the mill has been sold is because the tin1e 'Yas opportune for selling it. Galva~ nised iron, cast. iron, and acll the other rubbish that was connected with that mill has gene up 100 per cent.. in price, and that man saw his golden opportunity for getting rid of something at an advanced price, wbGn, if he retained it until after th<' war ended, he would not get within 75 per cent. of what he sold it for. This man expressed regret that he could not continue that mill, at the ,;ame time that he was paying the farmers from 19s. to 2ls. per ton for their cane. Since the abolition of t~" mill the farmers have been sending- their cane to Nambour, and are receiving from 28s. to 32s. 6d. per ton for it.

I belieye that if the Government carrv on in the manner indic"ted bv the Pren;ier's r:olicy fpeech, and also on the lines outlined m the Addrpss in Reply. there will he no need for any fear on the part of the people vf Queensland. I notice hon. members on the othE·r side have made a great deal of political capital out of what. tfuev term the repudiation in regard lo tlw Land Act Amendment BilL It. ill becomes members on the Opposition side to cast any reflection upon the Government, so far a,; repudiation 7s conf'erned. So far as I an1 concerned. ·there is no differ<'llCP between mv \Yord and my bond, because, if I went out a1;d promised the electors of Rosewood, or anv other elec­torate for which I happened to" be a candi­date, that I would support any measure .that c."1me into this House. thev could take my "ord for it; I would car~ry out that promise. I want to sav that. so far as repudiation is concerned, 'I charge that side with gross repudiation cf a pledge which .they made to the people of Ro,ewood during the· Dcnham GoYermnent's time. Mr. Den­ham came to Rosewood and promised the people in the Farmers' Hall at Rosewood, t.Pat. if he was returned. and thev returned the GoYernment nominee, they would build

[.Llfr. W. Cooper.

the line from Roscwood to Rosevale. Mr. Denham, after he made that promise, had at least six years in which to carry it out, and that line has not been built. What is the difference between the signed bond of the Government of the State and the word of a responsible member or the leader of any party, when he goes out and makes a state­ment, and then do OB not cnrry it out?

In speaking of the advisability of this !me being constructed in the near future, I am very like the hon. member for Bowen. I do not care what other electorate gets State enterprises, o1· what other electorates get, so long as we get that line from Rose­wood to Rosevale. (Laughter.) That line was pa;sed nearly thirty years ago. The money was appropriated for the purpose, and was used in some other direction. Every election that came along, the people of the district made representations to the Yarious GoYermnents-whether Kidston, or Denham, er Philp, or any other Government-that it should be built. They insisted upon their rights of haYing that line built. The diffi­culties under which the farmers in that dis­trist are labouring are thesE: They are eighteen miles from the nearest point of a trunk line, and many of them have to ·-tart a way with their produce at 4 o'clock in the morning and arrive home between 9 and 10, o•· half-past 10 o'clock at night, with, per­haps, three tons of chaff. K o reasonabl0 man-no reasonable Government-can expect farmers to exist under those conditions. I know that part of the conntry fairly well, and if they ha.d a line there, I honestly bdieve that between 300 and 400 tons a day would go over that line, becausB every peg that would be driYen in that suryev from Rosewood to Rosevale, a distance of eighteen and a-half miles, would gCJ into black soil capable of producing lucerne, maize, or any other product the farmer might feel inclined tc• put in. To enable these meE to get a fair deal, and gd their goo-ds to market, it is very necessary that this Government, or any other Government, should construct that line. They went out theeo something like thirty to thirty-five years ago, and caned out a home for their wives and children. They expected the Government to giYe them some facility for getting their stuff to mar­ket. But what has happened'! Time after time, as the Plections came on, they have rccei ved promises from the various leader« of the party, and nothing has been done. I v. :1nt to say in all fairness that this party, '>·ho have occupied the Trea•·ur~ benches for u Iittle over three years, did not make that promise, and it was not asked of them. Bnt I feel sure that it will ,-et be a Labour Govermnent w!Jo will constl·,:;ct that line.

Mr. JI.IAC\RTXEY: Was it not part of the propose.d Yia recta?

Mr. W. COOPER: It was at one time, and I want to say that it was yery nearly carried as part of the via recta, and had it been carried, it would haYe been an infinitely better route than ~he one which was adopted by the Government of the day. There are no engineering difficulties. I do not think there is a cutting that would be any more than 3 feet. and it could be con­struct<'d very cheaply. If it were con­structed, I do not think it would be more than forty miles, as the crow flies, from Brisbane; and, ~eeing that we ha ye hun­dreds of thousands of acres there lying waste,

8upp!y. [3!) AUGUST.] Supply. 1897

pr~ctically of no service except for a few darry cattle which are grazing on them, it rs absolutely necessary that this GoYern­men.t, or any other GoYernment that might b,, m power, should construct this line in the interests, not only of thos8 farmers who are thern, but also of QueenBland.

The TREASURER: It will not be done for many years if ~-ou wait until some other GoYernment does it.

Mr. \V. COOPER : I do nor think it wili be done for Yery man~· year". if a Liberal ~OYernment has an opportunitv of buildin"' ~t. because I bel.ieye the first 'agitation fo~ H was begun thrrty years ago, and it has :1ot ~-et been constructed b5· them. I think rt mrght go on for another thirtv vears and n~t be constructed by memben 'an that side 01 the House.

* :\Ir .. F. A. COOPER (Bremrr): B,.fore I get rrght. on to the subject-matter· of thP debate, mrght I congratulate the hon. mem­ber for Rosewood on the yerv fine effort he has put up

1 in thi~ Committee to-night?

(H~ar, ~ear,) I thmk the speed1 he has (lehYerecr has. been an example to those mem­o~rs who stJll represent agricultural con­strtn~ncres on the other side of the Chamber I thmk he has dealt with mattprs in a tem: perate way that reflects Yery great credit on hrm_. and show.o he has a knowledge of agncultural matters from A to z.

1Ir. M \C'\RTXEY: Do not €poU him.

·' . J'.Ir. F. A. CO.OPER: I am not spoiling !'r:;' ~ n~>;· rs commg t):le time when thr, spoil­m~ ~tal h. I >Yas gomg to ''ay that he and I haY" for :::onE~ \Vecks 1 )ast br-Pn tr\~ing to traC'e our rcl:ltionship, and althoucr:h' vn'l 1. nch ha vt: gone back son1e hundreds ofc;_·ears '"" h:tvc not J''?t arrived at thP point \vhcr~ :1u· h,·o ge1~ealogical tree5 branch of( ,L,rrughb"r.) . .:\om the less, the speech he ha~ m,Hle < onvmc~s me that the old ori"'inal '.took from which we S)1rang had that de~11oc­racy. so well g1:ounded in it 1hat it comes ou: m,'~~ at thr' far di,tant date. (Langh: tc,) FC! that re1·~on. I am sure that when £\'e make the search a little longer. ,,:.e will

nd that we sprang· from that good old stock tiLt knew how to get round things ir t~;o· g"o.od olcl-fa~hione~l way. (Renewed L1.,htu.) 'I he F mancral Statement which

the Treasurer has delivered to [7 p.n\.] the Hou. e is, to my mind, one

. of t]10se statements "·hich gives .u .... an op__porhullty of examining the CHl~litv of 1 t~e. bm·.ernmcnt. and the work of the Ac.mrm~trat10n, and of seeing where we ::tre gmng. The report prhented to u· la't week and the criticism of the Statemen~ has brought t? my mind the fact that there B rt pu~J-lrcahon known as " Progress an 1 Pm;c·rt·-:' The ~r<<lsurer's Financial Stat~­meL~ thrs year grves an account of Queens­l~r:d s, pro!l'ress and poverty-the progre•'s of tL~ . ~xo>er nmc nt and the povel'tv of th entrcrsm .o~ the Opposition. iHe1tr, hear 'l The cnhc1sm of this Statement is th'e W<'ak('st I. ha_ve heard in this House. .Most of the cnhcrsm we ha Ye heard has come from. sonrces !hat criticism should not como from. The hon. member for Albert treated m to ';;., !~t o~ pe;rsiflage, which reminds me of the ,,rJn:crban :~aracter who used a state­ment to grv? vensr_nrilitude to an otherwise la~d and :mmterectmg narrative. Of all the nnmterestmg narratives we have had during tho last few ye.a~·s, tl:e narratiYes of members of the Clpp03rtlon 111 connection with the

discussion on this Statement have been the weakest I ha Ye ever listened to. The hon. member for Albert mav be very well smnmc·d up by saying that the whole sum and substance of his critici•om was expressed in the hope that the red flag would not fly from the new trawler which the Govern­ment are bringing into the State. Some hon. member said that the purchase by the Go­Yernment of a trawler from New South \\'ales was on a par 1vith the purchasing of a dredge from Gc•rmany. Other speakers ''!tempted to bring the Government into dis­repute b;: references to the red flag. After all, what is the red flag? It is the emblem of humanity, the emblem of a canoe which mr.kes for better things. (Hear, hear !) I kr>ow that the Federal Goyernment have prevented the red flag from flying from our bnilclinfis, but that does not condemn the red Hag-. 1t shmps the Federal Government as shmving tlw most subservient obedience to pudy bittel'HP'-S, and as being narro\v in their vie>' '•· The red flag is the emblem of liberty. civil and religious, and I am sure the action of the Federal Government will not redound to their credit in future. (Hear, !•car !) The red flag stands for the over­throw of ignorance, of selfishness. and of g;·eed. It stands for the revolution which leads from darkness to light, from penury to plenty. from em·y, hatred. and all un­charitablerwos to brotherhood. fellowship, and to lm·e. (Hear, hear!) I know the red flag hae been condemned, bccanse these are times of war, but the reel flag stands for things that >var does not stand for, and to rdu··c to champion tlw ihings for which that flag stanch would be like a n1issionary re· fming to preach. because " the heathen rages in his blindness." ~ot to sav a word for the reel flag would be like a tc<mperance orator , .. ho would not say a word against the drink traffiC', be-canst~ ~ix new "pubs" were­licensed in an an•a. The red flag doej not st md againot dyna;.ties or for dislo: alty to kings. but if a cl:_vnast:;· or a monarch be­lieYcs in eYerything that is dark md under­hand, and detrimental to the people, then thP red flag .. tands a~:ainst that monarch. The reel fl af{ cannot b<> disloYal to dvnas­j ie.-· or empires. It can only be dislo.,-;,1 to it; own ideaL:, and its ideals are the uplifting of humanity, and the raising of the peoplE' on to a higher plane of libert:-·. (Hear. hear!) \Yhen it turns ag-ainst those things, then, a ne! on!:-· then. will the red flag be disloyaL Hundreds of year·s ago there was a decree iseuecl that the cross, th.o emblem of Christi­anity. should not be displayed in public. Did Chri>.tianity fail bec:mse of that? Did one ehristian turn from his purpose? \V as Christianity suppressed. in an;c way by the suppression of the cross' Xot at alL Christians weut on preaching the faith that was in them. and to-dav thev have hiumpht'd. \Yhat do we to-day think of thP people who then tried to supprr-'s the symbol of Christianit--. becccuse it was against their beliefs and their feelinf{s? We have no time for those people. \Ye have come through times of ignorance and dark­noes as far· as that matter is concerned, and the time will come when the people of the >Yorld will regard the FedPral Govern­ment. who haYe forbidden the flying of the reel flag. a' champions of darkness and as 1110n ·who arc again~t the cause of the people. 1Hear, hear!)

'fhe 'l'rea,m·cr's Financial Statement is a justilication of the Goyernment's taxation proposals. \Ye haYe triumphed in the matter

Mr. F. A.. Coope-r.]

1898 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

or taxation. The fact that the Opposition rail against the taxation of this Government de­monstrates to me that it hurts those against whom it is aimed, and I say, let the galled jade wince. 'When we hear from members of the Opposition that those people are being hurt hv the taxation which this House has pas.ed,· and which the Legislative Council, in itR wisdom, has also pas3ed, it appears to me that we are on the right track, and are making a step towards that goal which we desire to reach. I know that the taxation i' not all that it should be. '"None the less, it is of that character which allows the worker to straighiPn his back a little, to take a breather, and to look around him and 'ee the conditions under which he is living, and to make a firm resolve to improve him­self while hP has the opportunitv. The fea­ture of the 1'reasurer's Statement is natu­rallv State enteq1rises. Those State enter­pris~es arC', in rr1any instances, merely a pre­lude to nationalisation. I am not going to rlwcll very long upon this, but I want to p.>int out the peculiar manner in which the criticism of this Statement has com<' from the Opposition. You have noticed. Sir, sitting in your chai1·, that the criticism of tlw big things-insurance, cattle stations­comes from the occupants of the front hcnchc<: the leading lights of the Opposi­tion criticise those big things. Then the mwmills and the fish industry are left to the lesser lig·hts of the back b'-'nch. Anrl when it comes. then. to the refre~hment-rooms and tlw State hotel, the rushlights of the cnrl benchc:> take up the tale, (Government lau(ihter.) It seems to me that this has been arranged by the Opposition. Those gentle­men who occupy the front bel)ches represent the great big interests-the insurance in­terests, and the big squatting interest<-are those that are wrath about the proposals of the Government in the matter of insurance. and in the matter of cattle stations. \Ye all remember the insurance circular; we all re­member that circular of Mr. Murphy's, which promised that, if the Xationalists were re­turnerl, and the insurance companies sub­scribed the re<Juisite amount, the State In­surance Act woulrl be wiped off the statuto­book. The front bench members of the Oppo­sition are the members who are concerned about that.

Mr. ::\lACARTNEY: \Vhatever your humani­tarian irleas ma),- be, you rlo not mind per­petuating what you know to be a lie.

The CHAIRMAX : Order ! Order !

Mr. F. A. COOPER: I happened to come into possession of that circular. I know just how true it was, and I know I am not perpetuating a lie. I know that :\Ir. Murphy made that statement.

Mr. ::\;1ACARTXEY: I have explained the posi­tion on the floor of the House, so that you know it.

::\;lr. F. A. COOPER: I said that Mr. Murphv made that statement-that if an a<lequate amount was paid by the insurance companies an assurance would be given by the Nationalist party that the Insnrance Act would be wiped out. That is as far as I have gone>, and in saying that I have perpetuated no lie.

GovERX:UEXT ::UE:UBERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. F. A. COOPER: Let me say a word or two about the criticism that has come with reference to the cattle stations. The mention of cattle brings to my mind an

[Mr. F. A.. Cooper.

incident that occurred in this House last night. The member for Bowen was speaking upon the Financial Statement, anrl he said that he was reminded by the presence of the hon. member for Murilla that that member had bought a bull calf at a cost of something over 300 guineas. And the member for Murilla made the remarkable interjection, "Yes, and he will get better stock than ever you did." \Vhy, Sir, the, Opposition were doubled up at that remark. 'The member for Bulimba fairly shook with laughter and buried his head in his newspaper; it was the best joke he had ever heard. How beauti­fully it expresse•. the ideals of those people who sit in opposition ! How beautifully it expresses !he very idea that cattle are of mo1·e value than men! (Hear, hear!) How it shows that their great ideal is ]lroperty, property, property; that human life is nothing. (Hear, hear!) The only son of the member for Bowen-all that was mortal of him-is lying undernPath the soil in France. His bodv has gone from '' earth to earth dust to dust, ashes to ashes." And all that' the member for ::\;Iurilla could find to do was to jibe at the dead son of the mem­ber for Bowen; and all that the member for Bulimba could fmd to do was to laugh at what he considered the very good joke ao·ainst the dead son of the member for B'::,wen. Things such as that should be depre­cated bv this side of the House. Vie want to show· that at least >ve consider flesh and blood of more importance than property; that >ve consider that the children of the State are of much more importance than the cattle of the State. (Hear, hear !) It showe; that the Opposition, in resisting our efforts to help the children of this State, have b,)en ;:tctuallv expressing their minds openly upon the~e things, and that they think more of the cattle that roam the open spaces of the \Vest than thev do of the little children who in­habit th~ crowded tenements of the cities. The Labour partv has much to do in that respect. It needs to go much f~rther. It needs to show these people that th1s property that thev hold at the present time, while they hold it thev hold it merelv in trust fo1· the people of the State .. So· soon . as the people of the State .are »:•se they will tak.e< this property that IS thens and handle It for their own use.

GovERX1IEXT :VInrBERS: Hear, hear!

:VIr. F. A. COOPER: Now, might I, while I am on the subject of beef, refer to a state­ment that was made bv the hon. member foi· Pittsworth. He referr.ed to-night to the fact that the Govemment had signed a contract with the meat purveyors, for meat for Im­perial purposes at 4~d. per lJ:>., while they commandeered meat for thell' own State shops at 3d. and 3~d. per lb. The lea~er of the Opposition just interjected somdhmg about perpetuating .a lie. I wonder h9w frequently the Premier has taken the yams to explaii1 the position of the meat busmess? I wonder how frequently ~1as he stood upon. his feet on the floor of this House and told the Oppo,ition that the meat suppliers will­ino-lv camP to that a~reement and they sup­plied for 3d. and 3~d~ the straight beef-the whole of the beef-the shin bone, the neck, the tail, and the tuft of hair on the tail? All that is supnlied in the 3d. and 3~d. : and for the 4~d. that i< paid for t~e meat for Imperial purposes, only the ch?ICe cuts are supplied. I know that the Premier offered to pay to the meat suppliers 4~d. for meat for

Supply. [30 A'GGUST.] Supplj. 1899·

his State shops, provided they supplied the same cuts as they supplied for Imperial purposes.

GovERN]!ENT J'.IEJIBERS : Hear, hear !

Mr. F. A. COOPER: That offer of the Premier was not accepted; showing that !hey ar.:; on a much better wicket in supply­mg straight beef to the State for 3d. and 3ld. than they. are in supplying the choice c~ts for Impenal purposes at 4~d. per lb. I hope that the. ?overn.ment. will go on in this mat~e~ of Its policy With reference to cattle statwns. The cattle stations are not for to­day. The cattle stations ere not: for to­morrow. But they are to build up a "'rt'at fu~ure for the . Government of this State; bUild up a great future in the matter of the meat supply, not only for the people of Queensland, but in the years to come for the whole of the people of Australia. In t;venty years' time, in twenty-five vear•' tnne, o~· in _thirty years' time, the peoi)le of

.Australia will hold bl0ssE'd the name of this ~ab•mr Government, in that it had th<> fore­sight and th~ pl:Ick to secure for Queensland and Australia m the future an adequate supply of beef, O\vne·d and controlled bv the people of the State. ·

GovERK:IIENT ;yiE:IIBERS: Hear, hear!

. Mr. F. A. COOPER: vYhile the beef rests m the hands of the private owners we will bE' as the people of Sydney and Melbourne ar; to-day-at the mer~y of the bt'd sup· rl~ers. I ~ad the privilege of riding in " rallway ~ram r~1e othe1· day in company with some of the big meat people of this State and of N~w Sonih Wales, and the sneer­u;g way m which they referred to the Federal Government's attempt to block their efforts to st:'rve the l?e~ple of Sydney and l\!Ielbourne mto submissiOn was wonderful. It was _quite evident to m'e ihat they. had the wh1 J1 hand. They went ·so far as to sa·, " All right ! let \Vatt go on."

1\Jr. O'SULLIVAN: They think they are the Lord's anointed.

Mr. F. ~- COOPER: I believe they do. I am afrmd they are anointed with their own mutton fat. (Loud laughter.) ]\;h know­ledge. of ecclesiastical matters tells me that that Is not the proper anointing oil. (Re­newe·d laughter.) They have an oil that the_y do not anoint with, but an oil with which they approach the National Govern­ment, . ~ne! ~vith which they approach "the Opposition, m th~ matte~ of securing what they waJ?.t-pronuse for payment, payment for promise. These cattle kings weru not at all backward in asserting the fact that thQy held the key to the situation when thev caul~ put their hands in their' poc~ets and proncle the funds for the K at10nalists' expo1s<cs at election time.

Mr. MACARTNEY: They have not been able to buy votes, have they'?

Mr. F. A. COOPER: Ko · because in this country we are now gettiu'g away from the old Liberal idea, the old Conservative idea, of rushing round with a barrel of beer and . a pannikin, and getting votes, so far as this part:v are concerned a11(l I be­lieve, so far as the intelligence of the people of this State are concerned. I know that the old love for the old methods-that Con­servative way of sticking to the wa~, of our fathers and grandfathers-still induces the Opposition to stick to its barrel of beer and its pannikin. (Laughter.) But the Opposition

know, or are beginning to know, that you, connot buy votes. There is only one thing in the future that is going to get votes.

J\fr. MACART!<:EY : vVhere does the point come in'?

Mr. F. A. COOPER: It was not a point I was talking about; it was a pint. (Laugh­ter.) · The only thing that is going to get votes in the future is the fact that we are· going to--

Mr. 1fACARTNEY: 'What is the good of talk­ing about a pint if you cannot make a point?

3.Ir. F. A. COOPER: You must know something about that-I have :new~r at­tempted to make a point with a pint. (Laughte1·.) If the hon. member can en­lighten me on that question I shall be de­lighted. (Renewed laughter.) I am not suggesting anything of a personal nature. I was saying that I hope that the Govern­ment will proceed with its policy in the matter of its cattle stations.

I hope it will step out i:n the matt~r of State enterprises, and that it takes up tb~ crv which the hon. member for Rosewood ra.ised this afternoon when he spoke of the need of " State manufactory fer agricul­tural implements. I know that in these davs we are short of irun and steel. I know that our railway vcorks in Queensland to-day are suffering because of the shortage of iron and steel, and I know that at the rnom~nt it may be impossible to start these agricultur cl implem'ent works; still, I hope tl1at the Government. at the earliest oppor­tunity, will do what it can in the direction of Hipplying thr·'e very necessary things for the farmer. \V e m:.;d to look to the farmer, and to see that the backbone of the country -as the farmer has been rightly calle~­is protected. He is learning by orgamsa­tion to look after himself. H~ is also learn­ing that the industrial producer and the producer in the country are one. so ~ar as their interests are concerned. If the Indus­trial producer, by making agricultural im­pl<~ments. can help thE; producer on the land this Government will be doing much to help us forward. In doing that they will be doing a big thing, and that leads me. naturally. to the question Of the esta~­lishment of iron and steel works. It lil

verv necessarv that the State should at the eariiest po,sible moment establish iron and steel works. Thev are going to be a big help to Queensland. All I hope is that the GoYernment does its v~ry best, and get'S the abk,t man it can as m'anager, and clwo,es the Yerv beot site. I am not going to do anv parish-pum'pir1g-I am not going b work i-he handle for Ipswich or Brei'!'ler. 'l'bis is not a matter concerning one httle local centrP, but one concerning the. whole of Queen<>land, and if we make a mistake in the placing of iron and steel works, we shall endano-pr the whole of Queensland, while it "1av~ benefit some little centre of it. I am eonte;;t to leave the claims of my dis­trict to the expert. I believe ·my district is well si tu a tee!, so far as the products nc:c·c,~sarv for non and ste~l are concerned, bm. noi1e the less, I do not want to say th8t the only place for the expert to con­sider is Ipswich. I want to remind the House that the Ipswich district has most of th" things necessary, and that, no matter wherP the iron and steel \Yorks are placed, the pro·ducts which Ipswich can produce must

Mr. F. A. Cooper.]

lt900 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

be, and will be, used. In a report upon this suhj ect ~ne of t)w experts says regarding ihe IpswiCh distnct-

" Ipswich District.-Offers have been received from persons desirous of sup­plying iron ore from the numerous de­posits known to occur at Pine Mountain and elsewhere in this district, the price being 10~. per ton on trucks. The t.,nor of this material, although of poorer grade thrrn that obtainable from the abovementioned deposit'., would, never­theless, enable it to be later on us"d for smelting on a large scale. if blended \vith ores le:::s h·an in 1netallic iron contents.''

'The same report says-" A report has b.,en submitted by me

to the Minister for Mines dealing with certain suggested sites for the proposed State iron and steel works, the locations referred to being BiggendQn, Aldershot, Urangan, Bun·um, Howard; the report concluding with a recommendation favouring the esttitblishment of at least pig iron works in the Ipswich district in conjunction with the projected im­pOl·tant instaliation of a large mbdern by-product recov~ry coke works."

Those things are sufficient for me to know that the claims of the district I have the honour ro represent have been well placed before the experts. There are other sources of supply in the district thnt haYe not been tapped. The manganese deposits found in thr· disb·ict arc the b<.'ct that this State pos­sc,ses. Its coal seams on the 'I'i,-oli side are only being tapped. The remarkable thing about our coal at TiYo!i is. that the further the 6e,ams are worked the better C•)king coal is being produced. As a member of the Royal Commis_,ion appointed to inquire into the railways, it was my duty to condemn the Tivoli coal for locomotiYe purposes; and, althoug~1 it meant the throwing out of from 250 ~o 300 miners in m~· electorate. and the sendmg away of. perhaps. 90'J yoters out of my electorate, I harl no hesitation in con­demning the Tivoli coal for the use of 'locomotives, because it is not fit to be used in locomoth·es. If I hr,d bt>en lor;·rolling. ·and looking after thE> interests of myself, I might haw brought in a minority report differing from the commic"ioneb upon that fact; but truth is truth. and the Th·oli coal i not fit for locomoti,-e purpc-es. X one the less, the experts Paid that tests and analyses prove that it is absoluteh· the finest -coking coal that Australia has. ·

Mr. O'SuLI.IVA::-i: And we haw not got much coking coal.

I\llr. F. A. COOPER : I know that Aus­tralia has not much coking coal, hut the Tivoli beds are only just scratched. The further we pursue the '-earns the better coal ·we g<;t. . It seenb a remarkc, ble thing that the Tn·oh seams were opened up years ago on the very worst spot, but that was one of the very be~t things that ever happened to this State. The old coal that was still good eo a l, _as far as coking is concerne,d, has been prachc:>lly worked out, and to-day we have left to us supplies of coking coal that will stand to Queensland for manv years to -cc me. (Hear, hear ! ) There is ·on~ further thing in this report of J\lr. Saint-Smith's that l would like to read, and it is this-

" The initial step should, in my

[.J-Jr. F. A. Cooper.

opinion, be the selection of a thor­oughly qualified general manager, under whose personal superYision a State pig iron and coke works of the most modern design shall be definitely established as early as possible at a site-if within the Ipswich coalfield. at eome point con­venient to the railway workshops-to be finallv selected hv himself and the Mini~ter for Mine5.'"

I leave the question there. I believe that all the members on this side of the House will agree with mP, wheu we, get ·down to bedrock on this question, that we need to

.stop log-rolling. I believe that every mem­ber who thinks he has some interest in the establishment of iron and steel works in hi" electorate will agree with me that we have to drop that thing when it come'- to the final point, and leave it to the expert and the Minister to decide- -not what is the best in the interests of some little locality, but what is best absolutely in the intere,ts of the State. In doing that we will be doing the things we are sent here to do-t-O look after the State as a whole, an,cl to promote ib interests and its wealth.

Before I get awav from ,he matter of the Financi:cl Statement, so fa 1' '" these indus­tries are concerned, I would like to quote a letter that appeared in yesterday's " Daily Standard." I think it is only right that this letter should be quot~d, because it has some reference to the State enterprises of this Government. and to its fair dealing. It is written bv a gentleman who signs himself '·C. H. Chapman," and ;t reads-

" Sir.-Allow me to r'"pl~· through ~-our paper 'to recent reference' in the Press and Aesemblv in mY n;ccessful tender for ::\Iount Hution 'bores. :!Yien with weird names like Sipke end Slaposki seem to be ven· worriA,d. but still are helping me considerably by advertising my busine-.;s,"

I am not cltarging J\Ir. Chapn1a11 advertising rates for this-I do not notic•c that a.spect-

" Their inferenc<'. howC\·er, is that Illr. Huntet·, our meml)Pr. u-ed influence to secure me this conttact. Kow, as a matt•.>r of fact, 1\Ir. J. :\J. Hunter and mvself were direct opponent;; at the re'eent elections; EO JE,,ch •-o, that the eyening previous to th·" election I wrote letters to the Press condemning him ; yet, in spite of this, he i' giving me all the justice, and the pctrtY I supported none. ::\lr. Yowles. whc claims to be a patriot. acts differently from Mr. Huflter."

That letter is an excellent indi< ation of the general tenor of the treatment that the Administration metes out to ell the people of the Stat". Above all things, 1 think we need to be fair a•1d ab01·eboarcl. We need to remember that all the peO!l1A of the State are entitled to the same ::lt;ng:. I do not b5lieve in helping one town at the e'l:pense d another, and I think we will be doing the wisest and be'·t thing by pursuing the policy that this Government has r;urmed for so long-in being decent to all rarties, holding th0 scales fairk, and treatinrr a!! bodies and all men with' that equal justice which we ha 1·e dealt out in the past.

GOVER::\'~IE::\'T I\IIE~IBERS: Hear, he-a.r! ,and Opposition laughter.

Supply. [30 AL"GL"ST.]

Mr. F. A. COOPER: I know it amuses the leader of the Opposition. For three years. or, rather, for three months of the last three years he attempted to break down the fair dealings of this Gowrnment. After

three months' strenuous efforts [7.30 p.m.] his health failed him, and he

had to relinquish the work. Mr. Tolmie then carried it on for two vears and nine months, and where is he to-day? He is cast out into oblivion, and the hon. mem­ber for Toowong once more comes to the rescue of the di<credited and out-of-date political party. I have no doubt the con­duct of the present Government is a revolu­tion on the old days, but nevertheless revolu­tions will happen even in the best regulated countries. Although they thought they had this country regulated in such a way a.; to prevent the Labour party getting into power, there \Vas a revolution 'Yhich destroved the devious methods of the Liberal party and opened the door to the honest dealings of the Labour party. The hon. member for Kundah paid m0 the compliment of reading some remarks that were supposed to have been made to the ('ue•·nsland Railway l:nion at it- conference in 1916 regarding the I. W. \V. The remarks were fairlv accurate, although a fuller report \vould h·ave placed my posi­tion a littl0 more clearly. I did object to the I.IY.\Y. coming to the conference during the hours of the <onference and placing its views be fore it while the conference was sit­ting at an expense of "omething like £12 to £14 an hour. I had no objection to the repreecntativc of the I.\V.\V. coming to the conference rooms at night when the confer­eiwe wa' not sitting an cl explaining his view"'· As a matter of fact. he did that. I am not ,chaid to listen to anybody. In fact, I listened to the I.\Y.\V. repre;entative. \Yh,·, I lieten to the Nationalists. (L:.wgh­ter. 1 The searcher after truth-the man who is honestly anxious to learn-the man who wants to find out thing·s-will never dose his ear' to anything. lie \vill go through bales and bales of chaff for the one grain. \Y c on thi' side of the House in that resp9ct can claim to be zood fowls. \Ye '· 'ratch, scratc-h, and scratch through all the eh ,ff of the Opposition in the hope that we migh.t come to on2 grain of wheat. (Govcnnr1ent laughter.) As a matter of fact, that is why W<Cl are here, because the Labour party in the past hns constantly done that. \Ve have alvcays been cearching for the good things. \V c ha Ye ahvays been searching for the grain. It is because \Ve have s< "rched for that grain and found much of it that we are here to-clay representing the party of pro­gress. (Hear, hear:) \Ye are going ahead. Probably we ha\ e lately come to that scage of O":.ll' existenre ·when it is verv necessarv for m to pause and see which way we shoul~l continue.

I was saYing the hon. member for Nundah referred to my remarks on the I.\Y.\V., and h, wondered if I stood by them to-day" I do. I stand against all those things that arc for destruction and that are not for the great uplift. ·Certain aspects of the I.W.W. are excellent. Other aspects of the I.\V.vV. are to me all wrong. V\here they intend to build up by utter destruction does not appeal to me, but all that appeals to me in the I.W.W. that is good I adopt. All th:lt to me in the I.IV.IV. appears to be wrong I drop, and the hon. member for Kundah made a futile attempt to connect the I.W.W.

with the one big union movement that Au~tralia is seeing ini6ated at this present moment. V\ e know too much to be caught bv chaff like that, and the countr" knows too much to be' < -1ught by chaff like. that. I kno\v that there are passages frorr1 the preamble of the I.\Y.W. that occur in the preamble to the formation of the one big union. But vou can find some of those­passages in the pnamble of the constitution of the Xationali·ts' party, if it has a consti­tution, and mY belief is that it has a consti­tution. I am sure that nobody without a constitution could ctand the racking about that it has had of late. (Hear, hear! and laughter.) It has been thrust from pillar t'l post. The way it has been thrust round in a circle; the \V ay it has been dragged hither and thither by certain conflicting interests is astoni~hing, and I say it could not live uuless it had some sort of a consti­tution. Of course, even it has a constitution ot son1e -.,,)rt. I sav \\~ords occur in the con­stitution of the I.\'\". W. that might occur in the constitution of any political party or any union. Therefore there is in the preamble to the constitution of the I.\V. \V. words that also occur in the preamble of the con­stitution of the one big union. Such words. as: "\Ye work for the good of humanity." Simply berau ·p those word·· occur in the preamble of the I.\Y.IV. you could not pos­sibly take them from the preamble of the­one big union. You cannot drop a good thing simply because somebody else whom you are opposing used it long years agv or used t:wse very \vords or ideas. \Ye c::tnnot b3 tume·d aside from the right path for anything like that. The one big union purpose is a good purpose. It is the natural outcome of the work the Labour party has clone in Anstralia. The unions have exioted fol' Ycrv n1any vcars, nnd the't· have not come t<;:o·ethcr · o( tlwir own free will. Cir­cunlbtallce.;;. forced 1nen to unite in unions in the first instance, and in later years the worker, have been forced to amalgamate and join together to protect themselves and to protect "heir own intere,ls. In these days there are three big interests-the capitalist or the en1ploycr, the ,yc,rker, and the con­suiner. The eLtpiLlli~t is organised right up to the hilt. Tlwre is no branch o1· anv sec­tion of his class that is l<ft out of the oi'gani­sation. The ,,1·orker, unfortunately, is not organise-d in surh a n1anner as is the capital­i~.ts, and the con';un1er is practically unorgan­ised. As a matter ci fact. the consumer is falling entirely out of the question. and to-day the gr0at struggle centres round those two great people-the capitalist and the worker. That struggle we designate the cla''5 ~trugglE', or we designate. i.t the class war. It is the war of one class against another, and the Opposition can look at it as they like: economists can quote it as they like; they can say that the interests of the capital­iet and the \Vorker are identical as long as the:v like, but as long as we are the worker, and as long as we suffer injustice, so long the interests of the capitalist and the workm· cannot be identical. The red herrings that they haYe attempted to drag across the path of the worker of late are remarkable. "The co-operative principle !" "The co-partner­ship principle! " Any little thing to keep the worker from amalgamating in this one big union, that he might work with one idea and with one object and as one mind. It is not that we wish to wreck things. It is that we wish to build up things, and the unionist,

Mr. F. A. Cooper.]

lUJ02 SHpply. [ASSEMBLY.] SHpply.

whether he knows it or not, is to-day begin­ning to recognise the fact that, wherea5 in the past he regarded himself chiefly from the standpoint of a consumer-he worried about the extra 6d. a day that he might be able to procure food for himself and his family-he is dropping that aspect of the case. He is not worrying so much about the 6d. an hour or the "bob '' a day. To­dav he is concerned more about himself as a producer. For he is the producer, and being the producer, it is up to him to control prodl!ction, and he can only control produc­tion in the one way-by joining together, making himself solid, and commanding the situation. In a State like this the adult3 of the State can elect the people who manage the State. In a great continent like Aus­i;ralia-this Commonwealth of ours-the adult population of the Commonwealth can elect the people who arc going to manage the Commonwealth, who have the expendi­ture of £20,000,000 in the Commonwealth and .£9.000,000 in the State. If they can do that they can also elect those people who are to manage and control the shops in which they work. We will never have democracv in the workshop until \Ve have that state in cxist­·cnce that will allow the worker to elect his mvn managers for the workshops. In doing that we will be doing i•Omething that perhaps thn capitalists won't like, but we will be throwing the responsibility upon the shoulder of the worker, and he will rise to his re­sponsibility there as he has risen to it in the matter of the control of the affairs of State. Surely no body of people have risen b their responsibilities as have the workers of this State of Queensla11d, seeing that the affairs of State are cnnductecl by the people best able to conduct them.

Mr. O'SULLIYAX: Within the la't half­century.

Mr. F. A. COOPER: As the hon. member for Kennedy says, they have done all that within the last half century, and their wirler sphere of action, the unions becoming the democratic controllers of workshops, will do more to uplift industry, will ~lo more to up­lift production; will do more to banish wanton misery, than anything that has been ·done since the world began. (Hear, hear !) I say we look with hope to the one hig union idc•a, and we look to it to ripen into the one big fight for justice and for equity, and we hopo to see it crowned with the one big victory. Those are the things that ap­peal to us, and I stand to-clav with those men who are formin..- the one big union be­.cause I can see in it the g-erm of a better state of being for us in this State and in this Commonwealth of ours. \Yhen the \vorker begins to realise that he is the producer end that he must control production for his a;\ n benefit and for the benefit of the State. then he will come to a better knowledge of things and will do better work for the com­munity. By doing better work I do not mean turning out so much more \Vork a clay. The figures of Mr. Knibbs show- that the worker to-,clay is turning out more work per day than he did ten years ago. All this prattle about "slowing clown," all this prattle about the worker being a. loafer and a shirker-all these things that we are con­stantly hearing thrown across thA floor of this Chamber--are simply perpetuating another lie. (Hear, hear!) Anybody who likes to study the figures, anybody who takes o>ufficient interest, can see that production is

[1lfr. F. A. Cooper.

great~r, that this State is growing richer and riCher year by year, and that to-day this State-the only Labour State in the whole Commonwealth-is the only State where population is increasing and where we are having a better state of existence. That stands greatlv to our credit. It shows that while we may m<J.ke mistakes here and there: while we may fail in some little detail, we are on right and solid ground, and I trust that this party will go on doing the good work that it is doing, that it will go on with the one big union idea, that it will never forget its duty to the people o£ this St-ate, that i~ will ever remember that it sprang from the people of the State, and that it is of the people of the State, and that any Go­vernment or any party that forgets its duty to the people forgets its duty to itself; and once we forget our duty to ourselves, we de~en·e to slide into obliYion and never come back. I know that we are firmlv on the road of progress, and that we arc nO\V at the part­ing of the ways. Some will tarry by the way­side; some may fall, as has been the case all thr.ough our e.conomic history. Our pro­gress IS marked by the tombstones of men who hayc fallen out. \Yhat odds ! Some must die that others must live; and I sav that 'vhilc 1ve are going on as \Ve ere goini, it matters not who falls out so long <J.S th.is

. great moYement goes on; and I tru'~ that we ma~· long be spared to Sefl the great pro­gress that \Yill come to this State because Of the Sure foundation We haVR laid SO wide and so deep. (Government cheers.)

l\fr. HARTLEY iPitzroy): In connection with this Financial Statem0nt. all things considered, there is room for congratuln­tion. \Vhen we consider thf' various taxation measures which have been passed, I think the Treasuret· will be 'tble to meet his obligations during the coming year, and that he will be able to come out with at least a small credit balance. Still, the fact that there is a deficit calls for cool and clear consideration. I think that from the Statement we can come t'l the conclusion that it is now a matter of management as to whether we ran· pay off that deficit, and at the end of the financial year show a surplus. It is, after all, a matter of management. giYen fair seasons, and fair conditions. I consider that this next financial ~·ear wil I be practically the trial year for this Government. \Yith that in vif'w, I think that too careful considera­tion cannot be given to the staffs in charge of thQ Yarious departments. Of course, I know that the one big factor is the in­crensecl cost of material. and the ineiclental shortage of material. and the nec<>ssity for substituting other material. At the same time it must be well within the knowledge of every hon. member who has any practi­cal knowledge of work, that tlwre are many obsolete rr:ethods of doing work in the Go­vernment services, and that there is a good de ill of us~?less and extravagant manage­ment, so that in the year that is before us it will be incumbent, both on the Govern­ment members and on the C'abinet, to keep a vei'Y strict watch and guard on that aspect of the que,.tinn. 'Vith regard to the State­ment generallv, I do not intend to tJ·espass verv far in the realms of finance. It is a que"stion that I have not a very wide know­ledge of. In fact, I have a very small amount of knowledge of it ; and, after the hon. member for Bulimba-an ex-Treasurer -wandered so badly, I do not intend to

Supply. [30 AUGUST.) Supply. 1903

follow his example. I noticed that in discussing such a simple item us the state of the Loan Fund account, the hon. gentleman made three separate statements, each of which he said was correct. In the first place, he said that the amount to the credit of the Loan Fund Account was £3,000,000. He said that was correct. Later in the debate he said it was £2,157,757. He said that was correct. Later in the same speech. he said that it was £2.300,000, and he said that that statement also was correct. :'-<ow, which statement was correct? Subsequently, when the Treasurer ·convinced him as to the true position of affairs. and that the hon. member had made an error in the vicinitv of £700.000. he s.aid: "\Yell, I could show the hon. gentleman some of the incorrect statements that he made." After that very pertinent illwotration of the old saying " Fools rush in." etc .. I do not intend to try any " angel footsteps " in this direction; but there is one matter I want to draw the attention of the hon. member to. and he regards it as an important factor. 'The hon. gentleman said that from land and income tax:1tion he noticed that we have got on an average £569.666 more than the Government of which he was Treamrer. \Yell. supposing we have? From that fact the hon. gentleman draws the conclusion that we ought not to have had a deficit. But he omitted to look at another side of the question. Does the hon. gentle­man know that in 1915-16. in the Railwav Department alone, this Government gave ir;. creases to the wages men of 8! pel' cent., which amounted to no less than £132.000. and that in 1917-18. under the McCawlev award, in that sani!l department. the Go­vernment gave in wages alone an increase of £444.525. making a total of £576.000. or £6,000 more than the extra amount of taxa­tion from those two main sources of which the hon. m,lmber spoke? Does he not see that that one department alone absorbed more in increased wagu than the amount of extra taxation which h" >an; this Government got. as compared with the ·Government of which he wa.s Treasurer? And that does not include the innease given to the police, or the increase given to the Education Department, which must have run into about £100,000. It does not include the increased burden that we are carrying in relation to State children. amounting to something like another £100.000. When the hon. gentleman speaks of the £569.000 that we have got more tha:r his Gon•rnment did. he must not overlook the fact that we have re] ieved tiris State from the stigma of being a low wage-a 6tarvation-State. He must not overlook the fact that we are paving th,, public servants and the employees of the State general!~- a living wage.

0'\ow, I have noticed among hon. mem­bers opposite a tendency to condemn this Government for its attitude on recruiting. \Yell, I want to ask: How can they expect this Governm<,nt. as a Government, to join with them on this matter. considering the attitude they have taken up-they and their friends outside more particularly-in many instance''? There is not the slightest doubt that a good deal of the statements from the other side. and a good deal of the opera­tions and tactics of the Commonwealth Go­VPrnment, have tended to hinder recruiting much more than any I.\V.\Y. statements, or ·any other statements.

J\Ir. MAC.,RTXEY: You are looking for .excuses, are you·?

Mr. HARTLEY: I am not bothering twopence about excuses; I :tm putting the blame where it belongs. Everyone will remember that in the last conscription cam­paign hon. members on this side were threatened with prosecution under the \Var Precautions Act if they sa>d there were six divisions in the firing line. In fact, some members of Parliament in Ne"· South Wales were proseeuted for making· that statement; and yet I find, on looking- up the report of the Royal Commission, consioting of Chief Justice Sir Samuel Griflith, on this subject, ac to the numbers available for active ser­vice, and the numbers of r•cit1forcements and enlisunents required, that he bears out the statements that hon. membPrs made on that occasion. and I am just going to quote some of the figures that he gives ir. his report. In gidng the numbers that han• embarked, or are on aetive service, he ~ayE-

" At sea or embarked. 8,383; in E'gypt and Palestine, 18,432; in lYlesopotamia, 413; in France, vcith units, 108,000; in England, in depots and hospitals, 66,191; at sea, rEturning to .Nustralia, 6,017; total, 207,672."

Further on, he quotes the figures on the overseas war establishment, RS follow:-

" In France, all ranks, 110,517." There are five and a-half di dsions, straight away-

" In Egypt, including Palestine, 16,908; in :Mesopotamia, 321."

There is practically anorhcr di>ision, or practically six and a-half divieions in France, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, and that does not include a]] of them, bt::ause, I find that further down he says-

" \Ye have in training, in depots, and --. 18,488."

Or another division, irrespecth-e of the num­ber that were being hekl in reserve for reinforcements. So that, after all, hon. mem­bers on this side and on the Opposition side w the Commonwealth Parliam!'nt were quite right in saying that reinfot'('CJllents had been used for front line troops, which should not have been used, and that the sue,gested short­age of reinforcements at i'htt time was on a~count of drawing on tho;e troops that should have been held for reinforcements. \Vith a statement like that, how are we going to have am· confidence in t]w Commonwealth Government in anv of their statements? Their statements • require H'ry careful· consideration.

I sav that it is a wonderful record for this co~mtry-a counti·y of E,6QO,OOO people­to have supplied an army d about 50,000 more than was supplied by the whole Empire in the last South African w<,l'. for that is about the number; and, instead of justifica­tion for decrying the loyalty oi people and suggesting their want of p'l.triotism, I think it is a matter for great congratulation.

But there are other nn'~rers that are affecting recruiting:, and I think hon. mem­bers might have mentioned them if they had any knowledge of them, horause, if those things are once adjusted, I have not the slightest doubt that there would be some slight increase in the amount of enlistments.

J\,Ir. MACARTNEY: After th8 ballot?

Mr. HAR'I'LEY: Well, l think the ballot can be left to take care of 1tself. If I am

Mr. Hartley.]

1904 Supply. [ASSEl\IBL Y.] Supply.

any judge o! the tactics of Watt and his censor, he wtll probably ceueor that ballot. "i do not think he has 'enough statesmanship to allow it to go to a popniar >:ote.

Mr. 11ACARTXEY: 'What ballot are you referring to ?

}lr. HAR'fLEY: To the be.llot on recruit­ing. \Vhat ballot are you referring to?

}lr. }1ACARTKEY : The Perth Conference ballot.

11r. HARTLEY: Thero was no ballot at th.e Perth Conference. The hon. member does not know what he is talking about.

Mr. ROBERTS : The ballot on recruiting in November.

Mr. HARTLEY: That is the ballot I am referring to-in ="ovemller. There is no wonder There are complaints. Here is one of them-and hon. members on thal side must know about these things as well as gentlemen on this side. \Ye are continu~lly making trips to the Pay Office to adjust allotments that have been left by oons to be paid to their mothers or separation allow­ances to wives. It is o'nly the ot~1er day that I was up there to look mto a case of delay in connection with a woman in my electorate. The son had been supporting his mother to the extent of £2 or £3 a week previous to enlistment. He went overseas and left an allotment, but the separation allowance has not been paid. Her husband has not been living with her for some two or three years; he is an old man, over s1xty. I asked as to the cause of the delay. It was as to what the husband was doing. They had a report from the police to the effect that he "as away up ::\orth some­where, working for his tucker, aud they had sent to find out why he did not support h1s wife, and probably when they find him they will reply to the '"oman, " You must get yom· husband to support you. \Ye cannot o·iye you a separation allo\vance." " ::\1r. ROBERIS : You do the same thing with State chil-dren in Queensland.

:\Ir. HARTLEY: ::\o. I do not think the hon. member understands it. Here is another matter-the practice of deducting the pay of .a man who happen, to render himsel£ liable under the Imperial Army Act or the Aus­tralian "\rmy Act. He is charg.ed with a military crime. Perhaps he has overstayed his leave, perhaps he is absent from duty without leave, and some very severe penalnes -in mv opinion-have been inflicted. But that is 'not the worst aspect of the case. The worst aspect of the case is that the pay. of that man and his dependents i; stopped during those periods of imprisonment. I have here the case cif one man who alto­gether '·""~s sentenced to 130 days sec'?nd-class field pumshment. It does not reqmre very O'reat crimes under the military rules to get ~ sentence like that. but that man'B pay was stopped. And, by the way, although he was a sentenced prisoner, he 'vas allowed to go into the lines, and he was eventually kille~. That man's pay was stopped, and when h1s widow came to apply for the deferred pay and any other pay that might be coming to her, she was i1>formed that she owed the Military Department £25, an~ eventually, after deducting the amount wh1ch she owed the department from the deferred pay and any othe1· pay which might be coming to her, she got £5 3s. ld.

Mr. ROBERTS : She gets a pension, does she not?

[Mr. Hartlcy.

11r. HARTLEY: I suppose she would get a pension. \Vhat is the peusion? A pound or 22s. a week, and so much for each child. But why deduct the money from that pay? \Vhy, because the man commits what is a military crime that in this land would

probably bring a fine of 10s. or [8 p.m.] £1 under the civil law, penalise

his ~lependents to that extent? I say the system is wrong, and that the Com· monwealth Government ought to be asked to adjust matters of that sori1. Here is another case. A private went over, served fom· years, came back, and there was a deduction of £56 made from his pay because. they had made a mistake in the clerical branch of the Pav Office where he was described us a corporal. The man had never been promoted, and had never held anv other rank than that of a private, but that £56 will not be paid unles~ he can prove that he never had promotion. In another case " man went away as a sergeant. On getting to the_ other side, he reverted to the ranks, as 1s the custom, and his wife got the separation allow­ance in the usual course. He was subse­quently promoted to the rank of corporal. That information was not transmitted to the office here, and the amount of £58 was overpaid to his wife as separation allowance, because non-commissioned officers of the rank of corporal and above do not get separation allowance. That £58 w,;g ·deducted from hi·• pay and deferred pay. These are questions \Vhich should occupy the attention of hon. members opposite and their friend,, if they want to bring about a better state of affairs in regard to the enlistment of soldiers. ·

::\lr. BEBBIXGTOX : Don't you think we do our best?

:\Ir. HARTLEY: ~o. I think you should makP strong representations to the FedQral Government, who belong to the party :you ~re associated with, to have these matters e,c1jnsted, and to treat the soldiers and th~ir 2ependents more liberally. Even whe~. men arc> sentenced to punishment for a m1htary crime, the money allotted to their depen­clc,nts ehonld not be stopped from them. \\'hat is the use of penalising a woman and hee child,-en because of some act of a n1an overseRs which in this country would be ccnsiderecl a YfCI'Y small fault indeed? Let me quote here from the evidence of 1fr. Robilliard thcl officer in charge of the office for return~d soldiers, as given her~ recently before a Commonwealth commission-

" 3231. Bv the Chairman: What is vom- calling?-I am a public servant in charge of a ~ub-~epartment of the D_e­partment of Justice. I am Officer 111 Charge of Soldiers' Inquiry Office.

" 3232. You are not directly engaged under the militarv authorities ?-No.

"3233. Have you been connected with the A.I.F. ?-I served with them 'in Gallipoli. I served o!l Gallipoli nGarly three months. I was m Egypt and also in J\lalta.

" 3234. You are in charge of soldiers' inquiries ?-In charge of what is prac-· tically a complaints' office. There is also leo-al work done there for soldiers, free ol'charge.

"3235. Do ydu have many «oldien coming to :you with complaints 1-)'"es, soldicers and the dependents of sold1ers,

"3236. You deal with returned sol­diers?-Yes, and with soldiers befoN t~ey go away, also.

Supply. [30 AUGUST.] 1905

" 3237. How many complaints do you have to deal with ?-An average of 300 per month.

".3238. Do YOU have many from out­going men ?_:::\lore from the dq.endents of soldiers.

" 3239. For what do outgoing soldiers come to you ?-If there is anv little thing they want doing for them:

" 3240. By Senator Buzacott: To make their wills, and that kind of thing?-Yes.

"3241. By the Chairman: \Vould th~re be many complaints received from: outgoing soldiers ?-?\o, the complaints arc mostly frGm the dependents of sol­diers abroad, in connection with separa­bon ctllowances and allotments.

" 3242. Do vou think that drink has in any way interfered with our putting forward our best effort in connection with the war ?-I do not.

" 3243. The complaints that com<e be­fore you are not due in any way to soldiers. indulging in 'drink ?-No.

" 3244. Generally, the complaint is that proper separation allowances have not been made ?-That proper treatment has not been received from the military authorities.

" 3245. Your evidence will be mostly with respect to separation allowances and allotm~nts ?-Xo."

That is the testimony of a wldier who is intimately acquainted with a great many of the grievance« wldiers have to put up \vith, and I think hon. members opposite, instead of condemning the attitude of this party on the question, should try to bring about a better state of affairs than that which exists to-clav. I have not heard of members opposite moving in that direction. The hon. member for Oxle:i the other night condemned members on this side, and said thev would be much better overseas than sitt.ing on these benche:o. I understand that the hon. JYl,Pmber has enlisted, and if he has enlisted for the front line of trenches, I wish him the very best of luck, and hope we shall see him back safe and sound. Hon. members can do a great deal more than going around and talking about saving the Empire, if they will take up the matters I have alluded to, and get them adjusted, and get better concli tions both for the men who are going to, and for the men who are returning from, the front. As a matter of fact, the hon. member is ;,pending most of his time in booming the 11o'ar loan. I hope he has not enlisted as a v;;ar .}oan soldier. During the• last conscription cam­paign we had Mr. ::\orman Campbell writing reams and reams of poetry fot' the " Courier," and calling men slackers, be­cause thev did not enlist. Mr. ::\ orman Campbcll "to-day is at Campbelltown with a soapmaking firm.

Mr. BEBBIXGTO": I believe they asked him to take up that work for a month.

Mr. HARTLEY: Is that a fact? Mr. BEBBIXGTo;,;: So he told me.

Mr. HAR'TLEY: I understand he is liberally paid; that he i> getting about £10 a \veek. I beliE've there are manv men, not memhcrs of Parliament, who would enli>t on those terms.

Mr. BEBBINGTOCo1 : Do you assume that he is getting £10 a week?

1918-·6 A

l\.lr. HARTLEY: I understand that the pay of a cam·asser to boom the war loan is £10 a week.

Mr. BEBBIXGTO:-i : But not for a soldier \Vho has enlisted.

Mr. HAR TLEY : It is pretty good busi­ne" for a soldier to fight for war loan bonders.

Mr. BEBBIXGTOCo1: You take up the same position as he has taken up.

:\Ir. HARTLEY: l am not anxious to be­come a canvasser for the war loan. I have a very fair idea that if I were to come up, against some of the gentlemen I have criti­cised here, we should not get on verv well together. It is all very well for· a gentleman who has £300 a year secure to get up and criticise other people for not enlisting. As Bccky Sharp, m one of Thackeray's books, 1ays: "It is very easy to be good on £1.001) " year." I reckon that the hon. member, when he is booming the war loan, should aJ,o boom the fa, t that soldiers are under­paid, and that their pensions are too ~mall. I do not believe ther, are many single men without depenclents left in Queenslancl-or in Amtralia-despite the fact that " Knibbs" says there are 96,000 in Queensland alone. In the first conscripti.on campaign the very same flgures were gJvcn-96,000-and soma 60.000 men have enlisted since then. Still there are 96,000 eligible men in Quecmlancl, accm·ding to those tigures.

Mr. ROBERTS: Do you agree with him on tho food question?

1\Ir. HARTLEY: Ye3, I do on t1w food question. But \yhen a mall's figures do not alter for two years, in spite of the fact that we have practical de:.nonstration that " large number of men are going out of tho country, I have to doubt it. If the hon. mem­ber wants to help the enlisting business. he can boom an • .insurance fund, so that every man who goes away leaving a wife and chil­dren. or depenclent.s, ,,.;n leave an insuranct• behind him if anything happens to him. That was done m the African war. It is clone in America to-day. It is clone in indiYidual cases in :--Jew South \Vale~. It should be­come a settlPd policy. I suppc•se hon. gentle­men will say, " How are you going to finance it?" There are a lot of ways of financing it. I intend to quote an extract from a letb"r written in l'>e " Standard" by yourself. :Mr. Bertram. I hope I am not taking a liberty in using it; but I find the statements and figure,. are Sl' apposite to what I am saying that I am constrained to quote them at length. In cor.1menting on the income tax figures and the yalues from \vool, thic is what this letter in the " Standard " of yesterday says-

" Income tax figures relating to pas­toralists-

Tear. Xo of Tot~! AYerage Taxt,HtYers. Income. Income.

1913 1,767 £2,602,429 £1,473 1914 2,152 £3;·16,218 £1,726 1915 2.258 £4,;59,987 £1,793 1916 2,522 £4,084.531 £1.620 1917 3,254 £7 ~64,094 £2,232

"Starting with the year 1913, it will be noted t~at the pqr,toral taxpayers had a total mcome of £2_602,429, or an aYerage for each pastoralist for the year of £1,473. Last year the number

Jlr. liarttey.]

1906 Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Supply.

incrcaH:•cl to 3,254; the total income to £7,264,094; and the a•e•~ag-e income to £2,332. Theee figures iPdieatc in an irre>futable manner the profitable nature of the industrv. "lnd d the cry is for more profJt, q-;,ite regardlcs-. of the fact that hundreds of £amilic·" in Australiu are unable to secure a suflicicncy of nwat owing to the excessive pric8P, ru'ling.

" If further evidence of the extremely profitable nature of th•J meat and wool business were nee.ded, it is to be found in the !urge and rapidly increasing value of Australia's wool poduction. The following table will serve to illustrate this point :-

" Aproximate value of .\ustralian wool production, 1914-15, 19F J S, inclusive-

Tear. Value. 1914~15 £22,000,000 1915-16 £27,000,000 1916-17 £34,500,000 1917-18 £43,000,000

"These figures show Hn enormous in­crease in value'. As has been pointed out by the Commonwealth Statistician, the price paid by the Imperial Government for the 1916-17 wool clip represents an increasG of 55 per c-ent. on the prices ruling ;'1 the pre-war season. This m11y also be said in regard to the 1917:18 clip.

" It mav interest consc:mers of meat to know th.{t th<e person named J owetc, mentioned E:ttrlier, is none other than Squatter Edmund Jowdc, M.P., a Tory supporter of the Hugh,Js Government, and the registered hol,Jc.r of fifty-nine pastoral properties in Queensland, with a total area of 13,415 r.quare miles of country.

" It is furthel' worth r of note that this wealthy representative 'of the pastoralists, \rho is now opposing .u!Y limitations in the price of meat was SOltlC months ago a. >trong advocate of co l:·cription. It is difficult to underotancl the mental obliquity of such men, who refuse to make a. sacrifice eyen in the price of bullocks, but who are willing to sacrifice the best of .'<ustralia's n:&nhood on the battlefields of Europe."

Now, if hon. gentlem'en want to e~tablish an insurance fund to pay higher pensions to the widows of soldiers, and to pay a petcsion io soldiers, there is a gentleman wich fifty.nine properties in Queensland. Ther0 arc many of his friends with big in­cemes of from £2,000 to £3,000, and surely they will put in at least half of those incomes to establish such a fund and help recruiting·: I commend it to the hon. gentJ.,men opposite.

Now, there has been ceaseless condemna­tk<:l and criticism of this Government in relation to the treatment of returned sol­diers. I notice that the Government has opened an inquiry office at the corner of Queen and George streets. I went in the other clay to fincl out how that office is working, and I found that they are doing very fine work in relation to the complaints of soldiers. in adjusting their estates, in f'xing up their wills, in giving them in­formation as to departm'entq to which to apply for repatriation purposes, to get land, ar,rl all that sort of thing. I will quote an

[Mr. liartley.

extract of their operations up to the pre­sent; and it is to be note·d that that office has been opened onlv ;,ome short ,, even monthc. This w'ls up to 31st July. 1918-

"Matters requiring lega; advicB and attention

Finalising deceased 243;

soldi8l:~·, estate·3

Separation allowance and allot-ment rnatterB ...

Advice and attention, repatria­tion

Land settlement 'and work'ers' dwellings ...

\V ar pensions Ciftsualty inquiries Miscellaneous

156;

132;

159;

243; 105; 142; 492;

or a total up to that date ?f 1,672 c~ses. Now, those are some of the mstancee, uro­spective of minor matters, that have been attPncled to. For the month of July, 1918. this is the statement-

" Matters requiring legal advice and attention 31;

Finalising deceased soldiers' estates 18;

Separation allowance and allot-ment matters 15;

Advice and attention, repatria-tion 25;

Land settlem~nt and workersP rlwellings 37;

\Y a r pensions 18 ; Casualty inquiries 11· Miscellaneous 48;

or a total of 203. The popularity of that vffice with the returned soldiers is a stand­ing testimony to the thoughtfulness of the Government in opening it; and, bear in mind, it is only operated hy two returned soldiers. I trust that ihe Government and the Treasurer will give-as that department grows, and as it is bound to grow-a suffi­cient staff and scope, in order that they might carry on th'! work that they are doing. I notice that, up to the second week of this mrmth, the total has grown to 1,867 cases which have been attended to. An im­)Wrtant fact about it is that, of 57 men unplaccd at the end of last month, 43 were New South \Vales and Victorian m'en; show­ing- that, not only are we catering for our own men, but also for the men from other States. (Hear, hear!)

With regard to the land settlement policy of the Government for soldiers, I have heard the hon. m~mbers for Kurilpa, Nundah, and several other returned soldiers' representa­tives condemning the policy of the Govern­ment. As far as I can see from the reco1·ds, no other Government has taken cuch pains to found such a sound system of land settle­ment for returned sol·diers as the Queens­land Government. The Bcerburrum settle­ment comes first. The hon. member for Kurilpa said he has had complaints ftom soldiers who could not get on the land. Con­sidering the great number and variety of areas of land that are available for soldiers, that is a statement which shows the shortcom­ings of the hon. member for Kurilpa, because he ought to be able to supply, through the Government, the soJ.diers who apply to him with any area of land that they may require. \\'e have heard a lot about Beerburrum, and I shall deal with it as shortly as possible. There are 51,000 acres reserved there. Twenty-one thousand acres are divided into

[30 AuGusT.] Supply. 1907

484 portions, with the Yariou improvements placed upon them hy the Government, and out of those 484 portions ('ightv are taken up. leaving a balance of 404. ·If the hon. n.ember for Kurilpa cannot O'Ct land for returned soldier•, it is not boc:use it is not anilable.

l\Ir. BEDBINGTON: Thev are not all of the best quality: some are much better than othen.

~Ir. I-IARTLEY: That is correct; nobody is contending that Beerburrum is the be't agricultural land. It is there as a pineapple anrl citrus fruit gro1Ying area, and for that purpose it is considered-and I heard the .hon. member for J\Iurrumba, in his speech '" the official opening of that settlement, speak in those terms-to be equal to the be't that was knmq1.

::l.Ir. BEBBINGTON: There is some very go.od land there, and some inferior land.

Mr. HARTLEY: There are inferior patches in anv area of countrv. Mount eravatt is an~rher settlement-268 acres­twenty-six portions of which are set apart in areas of from 8 to 12 acres for poultry­farming. An area of 9~ acres is being used <t'' a training farm. In addition, sixteen soldiers, who have been trained at Gatton College in poultry-raising, have been allotted portions of a total area of 153 acres.

Again, we have at 11ount Hutton an area of 112,370 acres re·"en-ed for soldiers being surveyed into portions of from 320 acres .to 1,280 acres. I heard a complaint the other day that 640 acres was too small.

:\lr. BEBBIXGTON: So it is there.

Thir. HARTLEY: There is an area of 1.280 acres on a good grazing property, which a man can get on better terms than .are being offtl ed by the X ew South Wales Gon>rnment, so his choice is not limite•l in that respect.

Mr. MaRGAX: They would stan-e on that. m·ea with cattle.

::\11-. HARTLEY: Some men would stan-e .an:_vvi-'here.

Illr. BEBBIXGTON: Anv man would starve on 1,280 acres in raising stock.

Mr. HARTLEY: Then there is Cecil Plains. There are 40,578 acres surveyed into seventy-three portions of from 263 to 640 acres each. That does not include small arects which have been settled by,shire coun­cils in different portions of the State of something like 296,ona acres. Then we have another ·department-the Soldiers' Bureau­that has lately been opened by the Govern­ment, where the first offer of .any job that is going is given to returned soldiers, and the result is that out of 5,048 men registered for employment the Government have placed 4,984, leaving only forty-four unprovided for; and a great manv of thE' men who are unprovided for come from tho Southern States. There is also the Anzac cottage scheme for Sunnybank. It praeti­·callv means that a man gets an area of land within 7 or 8 miles of Brisbane, on a railway line, for a mere bagatelle of about 12s. 6d. a year, under the perpetual lease sy:::ten1.

:\1r. BEBBINGTON: So that he may improve it for the Government.

::lir. 1-LI..RTLEY: I think anv soldier would prefer it at 12s. 6~. a year- in perpetuity m preference to_ paymg a lump sum of aLout £50 or £60 "'Inch the land speculator would aBk hin1.

1Ir. BEBBINGTON: The first term is only for fourteen years-the GoYernment can make it £14 next time.

Mr. I-IARTLEY: It is not likely that any Government would take up that attitu·de. That has been the Queensland Government's 'cheme. What ic the scheme of the Common­wealth? All that has been done bv the Queensland Government out of their own funds, 1>"Jth the exception of the advance of £75 made in respect of u WJrker's dwelling by the Commonwealth Government. The unfortunate thing is that owing to political feeling the new scheme which is coming into operation is disloc<lting the well-c<lrried out scheme in operation under the previous system. I will just quote from a pamphlet issued by the Lands Department, to gh-e an idea of what the alteration is, and the bene­fits under the Commonwealth scherr,e-

" 1. Gifts.-Furniture to the value of £25 for widows and tot<llly incapacitated sol·diers; tools or personal equipment up to £10; artificial limbs and medical treatment; sustenance allowance (while awaiting employment); educational fees; rent for a totally incapacitated soldier or for the widow of a soldier.

"2. Loans.-Up to £50 for tools and equipment; up to £150 to an incapad­tated soldier or his wife or to the widow of a soldier who is not incapacitated or to his wife, to provide a 25 per cent. equity of redemption on their own pro­perties, to enable them to borrow up to 75 per cent. of the value of the home from some approved financial institu­tion--"

They are going to let the mortgagee come in under the Commonwealth scheme-

" up to £150, and by special reference to the :Ylinister up to £250, for the pur­chase of approved businesses, stock, plant, and ]iye stock, to wi•dows, married soldiers unable i.o follow their usual vocations, and soldiers who, prior to enlistment, were dependent on businesses which they owned and conducted."

Mr. BEBBIXGTON: You would not prevent them from borrowing?

Mr. HARTLEY: This Government gives them power to borrow on the most generous terms at from 3~ up to 5 per cent. up to. £500. The new scheme of the generous Com­monwealth Government limits them to £250, and leaves them at the mercy of a financial institution to bleed and rob as they like. In addition to that they have out out, unfortu­nately, the £75 allowance. which was pre­viously given in connection with the e-rection of a worker's dwelling, which has now to be found by the soldier himself. Further than that they have cut out the amount of £25, which was gi.-en as a free. gift to a, soldier starting on the land to buy a cart, horse, and harness. I think that., instead of condemning the Government, the repre-· sentatives of returned soldiers opposite would be well employed in considering the two

Mr. Hartley.]

1908 [ASSE::.VIBLY.] Supply.

schen1es-in going into the dis.aclYantagcs of each and improving them, instc<ld of hurling uscles~ abu~,c and useless critichnn, in ·which there IS not a constructive at<.•n1, against this Gm·ernment. If they adopted that attitude, !here wc:uld be a great deal more 0nthusiasm m relatrou to !he prosecution of the war. In relation to the State enterprises I notice that on the whole the position i·· satisfactory.

The deficits arc small in amount [8.30 p.m.] and they will probably become

. revenue-earning very shortly. I want to Impress upon the Government the fact that they have not the machinerv in the pre~cnt departments to run the State enterprises. The whole of the departmental ~ysten1s. are. going to be too cun1D<-"'~rsome and too sl.ow to enable State enterprises, of the m':gmtnde and scope of some of tlw enter­pnscs that the Government: contemplate, to become a. success. They will h:.' ve to get a very efficient man to undertake the control. I do not know that one man can undertake it. He. wi]] ht:ve to be a ver:v good all-round man With a big salary to undertake the con­trol of these industries and he will have to split the whole bmine~s into three or fom· subdepartments under skille·cl subheacls, and they will ha.-e to be given a good deal of latitud<> in their man'ao-emer;t or Plse the enterprises will soon sh~w a loss. If you want to get efficiency and output with ·the least expenditure of monev and men then you must give your mana.ger a free hand and not compel him to refer anv new departure he mav wish to mak<> to some departn•<>ntal he~d \vho has .-ery little knmYledge of the question.

::\1r. BEBmxorox: .\nd don't allow !"he unions to run the busine~s. :Make him 1nanager.

:\Ir. HARTLEY: I thiill< that can wry well he left to the manager and his em­plov<>es. As a rule, the new class of mana­ger that we are now getting is heginning to understand the unionists, and is able to adjust any little differences that may arise. I kno;v the mo,;t capable manageril h'lYe very httle troubk with any of their em­ployees on the matter of uuion principleil. In relation to the iron and steel ''· orks, I trust that the Government will push on with the prel!aratory work while they are waiting to ilH10mt the manag-er o,· expprt d this in­dustry. At the pn'sent time there is not sufficient definite data available for that expert to decide the ~ite of the work,, or whether it is a good thing to start a certain clafs of workb, and the JHines DPpartment shoultl do a good deal more work in this connection than it has clone. There arc lots of iron ore deposits lnio\\·n that arc not mentioned in any of the departmental reports, and I would suggest to the Minis~ tu for l\Iines that the ::\Iines Department wants a pretty good shaking up. 'rhcy have a lot of experts there who are really geo­logists with very little mining cxpei·ience. They simply visit a mine, have a look round, and then wriL' a good report in the " :\lining Journal " about the depo,its. \Vo arc coming to the tii>:e when wc. want some­thing more than that, and I think it would be a good thing to appoint a first-class mining engineer with experience in coal, copper, and, if possible, the iron industries. If he has not exj1erience in the iron industry hi~ experiC'nce ou some of the big mines might w<>ll strrnd him in that regard. I sug·gest that the Government, through the

[Jfr. Hartley.

Mines D('partmcnt, collect more definite data in relation to the dq1c:Jits of ore. Small groups of nwn shoul cl be sent out to pros­pect the. e~tcnt aud depth of these depo;.its, because It IS a matte>.· In regard to which it is very easy to make a big mistake. A deposit may look a very good thiug, be­cause of the blocks of ore that are above ground, but at the depth of 2-J or 40 feet ~hey cau very easily pinch out. I had an mstance of that _on!;- rPc.ently. On my trip to the Central <!Istnct with the expert, :\lr. Saint-Smith, we came to a new deposit. that had not been exnlored to anv extent and from its appcarari.ce, a man ,,:itha'ut a' good knowledge of !ron ore deposits \vould come to the conclusion that the deposit contained vast quantitie' of ore. He would conclude that there were 2,000,000 or 3,000.000 tom of ore there, and the expert as,urcd me rhat p_robably there were not 30,000 tons. I told him I thoug·ht he was wrong, that it \Vent right through the range. He told me to walk over the range, and if I could fine! it on the other side, hr: would give in. I walked over, and on the other side there was totally different country. Afteewards, we visitPd another ere deposit that 'Yas re­ported as containing some 500.000 tons of Grc, and \VC found it had pinched out, and gave only about 5,000 tons. Therefore, the Government will want to make complete explorations in the wav of sinkino- shafts and trial borings, in order to find th~ extent of the ore deposit< before they decicho on a site for these \Yorks. ·while the advice of fhe expert can be taken into consideration, I am not going to be guided by the advice of the expert only. I am g·oing to take into ac:'ount my own local knowledge, and other matters that bear on the question. The que .tion "·ill be the fixing of a site where the ore, the coal, and the flux can be obtained with the l0ast expenditure of labour and cost of transport, and there are many areas in Queensland where that may be done. One in particular is in the Central district. at Broadmount, at the mouth of the Fitzrov River, \vhich is connected with some fou·,, rail" ays-the ::\orth Coast RaihYay, Glad­stone to Rockhampton; the Dawson Vall<>y line, from the Dawson coallicld; the Central­VV'e·tern line. again with a number of coal­fields alongside it; and the ::\orth Coast line again, running through big limc• .. tone dPposits, iron ore deposits, and verv often close to coking coal. Also, along the 'Fitzroy RiYer some few miles from Rockhampton, at Glenmore, is a big ch'posit of limestone­that omkl be shot · .. traight ham the quarry at a short distancC' bv aerial tram\Yavs, conyeyor~, or rhut('S. ~then('e into pun't< and raftccl down the riYer. These facts will haYe to bE' considered-the earriao·e oi the ore and the coal-and I poiut th~t out as one spot thtt! might be a yery 'uitable place. ::\ot only is that so, but at :\Iount Etna. on the san1c line-a matter of son10 20 miles of rail carriage-is a .-ery big deposit of lime,tone for flux. Along the coast, some ten hours' sail, is :Ylarble Island, with a very high percentage limestone, w that thev can have <>ither rail or \YatC'r carriage 'to the site. But it may be found better to put the \vorks where the coal is, and if that is so, then I 1·ecommend the expert to take into consideration the Dawson Valley. I hop<' it "-ill not be left to the expert alone. I hope the commission will take eYidence in all localities. because the more exact infonnation \Ye ·have placed

Supply. [30 Al7GUST.] Supply. 1909

before the House the better the House will b• able !o judge as to where the works should be situated. On the Dawson Valley is a ,-ery large deposit of coal-I think the largest in Queensland. if not in Amtralia

·-with a very fme water supply, and with the pcssibilih in the future "of electricitv being_ generated by wate1: pow<>r higher up the rJvE'r. I want to pomt out that along the Da>vson Va:llev Railwav and the Oen­tral-\Yestem line, betweE'n R'ockhampton and l\Iackav. we han', with one exception, the three finest heating co>tls in Queensland. The exception is tlw Burrum coal, which giv0s a slightly higher calorific value. I just. want to quote this table _in order that it may f!'d into " Hansanl " for future reference>. It is contE'ndEd in a report of the MinEc, Department on " The Coal Rmources of Qupensland." by :\Ir. B. Dunstan. F.G.S. I omitted to say that I am not sure that the Ho wen coal does not run us YCt'"c close; but ,.-ith the exception of Burrum. , we hold !lw three highest hE'ating value· coals in Quc0nsland to-dav. and all with railwav <'·'lllmunication. 'The first un tlw list i's tlw Dmvson RiYE'r fiel-d. the fixed carbon pE'rcentage of >Yhich is 80.1.

Mr. BEBBIXGTOK: How far is that from l\Iount i\Iorgan?

:\Ir_. IIARTLEY: From memory, I should say tt >vns about 60 miles; it might be a little less. 'I'he mean aoh in !hat coal is 3.9 ppr cent. The Mackenzie Ri.-er coal has n fixed carbon percentage qf 77~ and a. 1nean ash percentage of 7.5. 'l'hc 2t.-x River coal has a fixed carbon percentao:e ·of 63, and a mean rtsh percentage of 6. Kow, with regard to the calorific ,-,,]ue. I thought that the highest-.-alue coal for heatintr pur­poses in QuE'ensland was Bmrnm with 8 079 calories; but I find from this tablcl that' the J\Iacl~enzie Ri.-er coal is higher, with 8,095 calones, and the Burnun c~_1~.i comes next. 'The Dawson Ri.-er coal h:'' 7 763 calories and the Styx River coal, 8,034 c'alories. Th~ Styx RiYDr coal is dcscribcrl as " Firm. bright coke." That coal is a high-class coal for locomoti.-e purposes, and, on account of th_e situation on the Korth Coast line nearly rm·chnty between Mackay and Rockhampton,

· J urge on the Government t;le necessity for gi.-ing more attention tu ihat particular mine, as well as to the r"lines along the Central Railwav. Thev co·t·:d establish a railm1y coalmine at the Styx, which woul-d ob.-iate the necessity of hauling empt,,· trucks some 80 milt-<. and 100 miles in the case of the Blut]' mine, and then hauling tlw coal back to Rockhampton. By having a mine on tlw X art h Coast lin0 they could place a coal tip at the pit's mouth and save .in handlino­the coal both to }lackay an,j to Rockhamp~ ton. In Yiew of ihe .-erv high value of the coal, the• Mine'· DepartJ'nent' could well go in for o1ne expense in opening up these mines. I have now to give the qnan­titics of coal which are ayai!.1hle or in reserve i11 cnnnrction with the Y:<rious localities. ThE' }lammoth mine on the :Mackenzie River field has an actual coal re~N'":c of 112,000,000 tons, and a probable re•erve of 1 'i0,000,000 tons. 'fhe Bluff has an nc·wal resene of 800.000 tons. and a pro ha hle reserve of uO. 000,000 tone.. The StanL V has an actual reserve of 400.000 tons, and a probable resenE' of 30,000.000 tons. Tolmies has an actual reserve of 400.000 ton;, and a probable reserve of 3,000,000 tons. 'l'hc Styx River

field hac; an actual reserve o' 2, 700,000 tons, and a probable reserYP of l<,000 000 tons. The Dawson Ri.-er field has an adua! resene on the west side of the ri.-er of 1.600,000 tons, and on thn east side of the rh·er, o{ 7,800,000 tons. The probable reserve on the west side of the rh·er is 7.800,000 tons. ll.nd on the east side, 62,000.000 tons. Wit 1-t all those vast quantities of coal. much greater attention should be gi.-en to thp .-arious fields by the Mines Department. as the opening up of the ftelcls would be a big factor in cheapening the co•t of coal to the Raihvay Department.

:\11·. GLEDSOX (lp.wiclt): I dec.ire. first of all. to congratulate th,, Trca•·urer upon the vPry fair an-cl lucid Finnncial Statement that he has ginn to the pec·ple of Queens­land. As mo•t hon. mE'miw,.s on both si-des have said, the feature of rh<' Statement is thE' industrial enterprises of >he State. \Ye find that there arc no less than nine under­takings included under the heading of State enterprises. of which six e'"'"' a profit and three a loss. If the idea of the Opposition had beE'n carried out and the Statt· had not embarked on these enterprises, the -deficit would have bren increa~n.,_· by another £82,105, as that is the ,,mount' of profit shown by the Statl.' enterprise;.. That is one of the things that the Opposition have not taken into considNation. If it had not been for the losst•s in the undertabngs, the profit shown \Yould ha.-e been nw<'!t larger. The first loss shm.-n in the list d enterprises is in connection >Yith tlw eoablline at \Yan·a­£1.036. \Ye see from thn report that has been given to us by the Treasurer that the loss on the coalmine was tJJe result of dnk­ing and water in the minE'. Bc·fore the mine was taken m·er bv the Gc \'Cl'nment it was being worked by' a smali r-0mpany. which was .practically at the end of its tether for want of capital. The Go.-crnment took over the min.c. and the result has been a loss on the two ·years' operations. That la'S has resulted, ;1ot so much frc!ll faults in the mine, as from the fact that, in sinking to a lower seam, they got below the subartesian hed, and they found that ti1ey were practi­cally draining the whole counrrysi,de without effecti.-e machinerv. For weeks and weeks they were sinking from the top seam at 200 feet to a smaller seam at 310 feet. where the shaft now stands. The• cost of 'sinking those llO feet was enormous, becau"'8 of the cost of dewatel'ing. That thPy were draining the whole countryside has been prm·ed by the complaints that have befell mad0 by the farmers round about that the wells on which they clepcn·dcd for water hn•:c been depleted owing to the dewat0ring of the mine. The result was o\ving to the \Van~ of 1nachinery; and let me BaY how that want of machinerv came abom. The Go.-crnmer.i made arrange­ments for an electrical phlll! to work the pumps, fans. and other thing-<; in connection with thG mine. It was founcl that the plant was the duplicate of the plant at the Lith­gow small arms fadory, alllt the Common­wealth Go.-ernment requNtecl that they should be allowed to take the plant to duplicate their plant at Lithgow. Seeing that the plant was to be used in connection with the munition£. factory, the Queensland Government allowed the Com­monwealth GoYernmcnt to ha.-e the plant. That was allowed. and the result is that at the present time the Go.-ernment are installing

Mr. Gledson-.]

1910 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

an electrical plant that will be capable of doing the pumping, the fan work, and other necessary work in connection with that mine. They are working a 2-foot seam of coal, and producing some of the best coal in Australia at the present time for steanJing purposes. There are many classes of coal, and some coal that is good for steaming purposes is not good for coking purpose-< I intend to go further in my remarks in deal­ing with that later on. Suffice it to say now that the 'Van·a mine has made a loss, but it has every prospect of making a succe,< of the undertaking, as they are now working under better conditions and with a prospect of obblining a better seam lower down. And I believe that if they went farther away from the railwav-say, half a mile-instead of hanging abo\1t the railway, they would get better coal still. In tead of a 2-loot sh<m thev would be able to work a 3-foot seam of 'the same qt<ality of coal, and be able to recoup themselves for al! the outlay that has been incurred. All the ]os> thP.t is shown here will eventually be turned into a profit for the Government.

The next Ios ~ is shown in connection with the State fish supply. Everybody knows that it has been in operation for practically only three months. and it reallv means that the loss of £2,656 ·has been ma-de on the establishment of the undertaking, and it will be, eveEtu­ally, recouped to the people of Queenstand as we go along.

The next loso is on the State sawmills. In the Statement it is shown that the loss was owing to the state they were in and the run­ning of them, and we fmd that the later working of the sawmills is showing a profit.

Under those conditions, the t11l'Oe under­takings that are at present showing a loss will eventually be sources of profit and a benefit to the State. They do not comprise all the industrial undertakings that the Government haYe started for the benefit of the people. They have also established, as mo't people will know now, an Insurance Office, and that office is being run at a profit to the people of Queensland and a profit to the State. All that profit is not shown here, because the profits that are made arc re­turned to the people. They go back into the people's pock8ts direct in bonuses and re·duced premiums-which shows that the Government have been successful in keeping down the premiums and making a profit after paying for all loeses of over £82,000.

We find that the Financial Statement dis­closes an estimated reYenuo of £9,118,663, and an estimated expenditure of £9,111,281, leaving a small expected surplus to the credit of the State-that is, provided the legisla­tion that has been calculated on by the Treasurer is passed by this House and the Legislative Council; be<:ause, if the Council ·do as they did last year-reject measures that were prepared for the purpose of enabl­ing the 'rreasurer to carry out his proposals in this Statement, we cannot expect a sur­plus, and he cannot be blamed for that, nor can this side of the House.

One of the things which I think deserves special mention is the Government's scheme i'1 obtaining for themselves a ,,teamer. The "Allinga" was chartered bv the Govern­nwnt for the purpose of carrying coke from

[ .iJ-h. Gledson.

Brisbane up to Xorthem ports for the pur­po-e of keeping the mim 3 in that district at '' ork. vVhen thev were threatened with closure because of "·imting coke to keep the s1neltPrs going, and the shipping comprtnies practically refused to carry coke or plac(} any boats at the disposal of the Government, it was found nec;essarv to charter a steamer, with the result that 'they made a profit of £4 829 on the carrying of material during thd laet financial year, whilst for the full period of the charter there has been a r:-rofit of £6,200. That shows that the undertakings of the GoYernment haye been profitable to the people of the State, and instead of the Opposition running them do.-m and dc.ing their best to try to discourage them, the:v should be a'-;isting this side to endeavour to extend those operations for the benefit of the people of Queensland.

A number of members on the Opposition side, instead of <lt·;;ling with the finances of the State, have dealt with the attitude of this Government in connection with very manv matters. I was very sorry to hear an attack made on the hon. member for Loc1<yer. He wa•, accused bv members on the othe1· side of being disloyal, of making disloyal statements, of practically doing things that a member of this House should not do. I think that is wrong. Every man has a right to his own opinions; m·ery man has a right to express those opinions, and should have the right to express them in every British Parliament. '" e find. that you are stopped evPn frmn expr0.:;·7iing your opinions and getting those opinions made known, because ~f the censorship and the 'V ar Precautions Regulations.

Mr. BEBBIXGTOX: If those things are calculated to a,sist the enemy.

Mr. GLEDSON: I do not think that the hon. member for Lockyer would do anyt'ling that would be calculated to assist the enemy. At any rate, I hear that the hon. member for Lockyer has been engaged in assisting those who have been doing their best to defeat the enemv. I hear that the hon. member was requested to introduce a depu­tation from what is known as the Comrades of \Var League-men who have seen service, not men who have simply !Tone for a trip on a troopship; not men who have simply gone to some of the islands and .come b~~:ck, but men who have been on act1ve serviCe. ThiR Comrades of IY ar League, who are known as "dinkum soldiers "--

Mr. CoRSER: What is the definition of H dinkum n?

Mr. Bt:TLER: Xot a Jim Tolmie soldier; not a Bernie Corsor.

Mr. CoRSER: I have t\vo good brothers­there.

Mr. BUTLER : That is not you; they are "dinkun1."

Mr. CoRSER: If they are "dinkum," I understand what the word means.

Mr. GLEDSO~: I would like the hon. member for Bm·nett to look up the dictionary and find what the word means. If he cannot, I would advise him to call at the office of the Comra-des of \Var League, and they will give him the definition.

Mr. CORSER :. Or the Trades Hall?

Supply. [30 AUGUST,] Supply. 1911

Mr. GLEDSOX: A lot of statements have been made with reference to the attitude of this pQ-rty on the \Yar. \Ye are told, and toJ.d by leaders in this \Vat, that if we say anything or do anything at all here calcu­lated to try to bring about peace in the land we are doing something that is detrimental to the Empire.

At 9 o'clock p.m.,

Mr. FOLEY relieved the Chairman in the chair.

Mr. GLEDSOX: The eame thing is hap­rcning in Ge.nnany. If you take up the paper you \nll see an extract from the "Cologne Gazette." which shows that the workers i!l Ge~·many are b~ing told the same thmg as !S bemg told to the worker~ in the countries of tlw allies. This is what the ne'v~paper says-

" A remarkable statement in the semi­official 'Cologne Gazette' says: N'ow, if ever, is the moment to keep a stiff upper lip. If we grow \Yeak or faint-hearted, then everything we have done and suf­fered will fade awav. One will read that we are a 1:ace \vhich seemed great, but in reality are small. we shall have to slave for the foreigner if we lose thtl \\ ar. \Ve must fight on even if the heavens gro\v still darker.' 1

The workers in the countries of the allies have been told that the same thing will happen to th,~m if Germany wins the war. 'rhe same thing happens in every war that takes place-the workers are exploited and used for the purpose of continuing th<: war for the benefit of those who are making big profits out of th" war. I want to show this from statemer,ts which have been madB in Britain. Statements can be published in Britain which would not be allowE·d to be vublished in Queensland. I shall quote now from the " Quarterly Review " for April, at vage 544- ·

" \Vorking-class views on excess profits and profHeering may be sai.d to concern themselYcs chiefly with matters relating to increased price3 of food and fuel, to­gether with strong opinions as to the method winch should be adopted when dealing with profiteers-method, because the general O!Jinion is that such offenders should be charged with nothing but asi,isting the l'nemy. La!xmr's im­patience with the Government in this matter is not difficult to understand when one looks back upon certain occur­rences in their chronological sequence. For example, in January, 1915, there was evidence before the countrv of ,,-heat cornering and of excessive h·,eight charge'. In February of that vear the quartern loaf was r~tailed at 'a price 50 per cent. above the pre-war figure. Some weeks later the London County Council set an inquiry on foot as to the possi hili ty of compelling retailers of bread to deliver full weight. On the question of inflated freight charge<z, though responsible person,, have more than once assured the Government that such statements were without foundation yet it is noteworthy that in January: 1915, a gas company was called upon to pav 11\s. 6d. per ton for coal freight,

though one shipo\\ ner was satisfied on the basis of 5s. per ton for similar ser­vice. 'l'hree months later, April, 1915, we find the same gas company employ­ing its own colliers. The fact seems to be that at the outbreak of the war, and for ,ome months after, shipowners were permitted, without interfe~ence, to reap a ·.vonderful han-est. There wa'< no Government control until the owners had demonstrated the flabbiness of their patriotism. Free competition . among them meant the neglect of essential com· modities in or·der to earn the higher rates offered for the carrying of other goods.

" C nfortunatcl v the shipo\vners were bv no means the only offenders. \Yhen tJ1e London freights fell from 15s. 6d. to Ss. per ton in ?vlarch, 1915, the cost of coal to the consumer underwent no reduction· and at the end of May :M.r. Runcimau' was still carrying on negotia­tions with coalowncrs that pit-head •wice3 mio-ht be ftxed. Later we find ~nether g';s company raising the price of gas and 1·unning its own boats. In .\ugust, 1915, the chairman of one coal conmanv denied ' that there had been anv \nc~ease of profit owing to the war, while the company was suffering very ba.dlv from the want of men.' Yet there was "a profit of more than £40.900 on the year's working-the first credit balance on the profit and Joes account s.ince the company had commenced operatrons. In Julv, 1'916, a barge purchased for £5 was being lent on hire for 30s. a day.

" In June, 1917, one of t!re g~s com­panies referred ~o a~ o~vn1ng. Its own boats issued an 11lummatmg circular to the Press and its customers. The follow­ing extracts are noteworthy .as ·Showing what Labour knows and is compelled to think.

" 'l'he price of gas to ordinary cus­tomers will be raised to 3s. 1d. per thousand cubic feet, and in the same p 1·oportion to the con<umers by slot meter>. . . Freightage during the past twelve months has risen er:or­mously the present market rate bemg 20s. pe;. ton as compared with 3s. in the vear 1914. . . . Under the sliding scale the shareholders' dividends will be automatically reduced, while the em­vloyees' copartnership bonus will, for the time, disappear.''

Those quotations show what statements may be published in Britain at the present time about profite')ring in connection with the 'var.

Mr. BEBBI;:.;GTON: Haven't we plentv of that in Brisbane?

Mr. GLEDSON: Yes.

Mr. BEBBINGTON: Then, why did your Government allow it?

Mr. GLEDSON : I should like to tell the hon. member for Dra:vton that the fixing of prices \Yas hken out of the hands of this Government by the hon. m·ember's friends, because profiteers were going to be inter· fercd with by the prices which were fixed.

Mr. Gledson.]

1912 Supply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Snpply.

Let me give thQ hon. member an example of the price-fixing of the Commonwealth Go­ven>mf:'nt. The Government of this State. finding that galvanised iron could be landed at £43 per ton, fixed the price at £48 per ton. Immediately they did that, the hon. member's friends set to work and got the . Commonwealth Government to take over the mcttcr, .me! th~ Commmnvealth Government practically fixed the price at £10 per ton 1tigher than wa;; fixed by the State Govern­ment. But :o~her ~tetemeni:s have been made here with regard to our party. \Ve are told thrrt we have no right to go to Perth and hold a conference, and advocate prace by nc>gotiation, that we are abso­Intdy disloyal, and that we are all that is bad if we do that sort of thing. L~t me rc·acl a statem0nt made bv the Prime Minister of England. l\lr. Lloyd George, when speak­ing- on this matter, and I am sure he can­not b~ accu••0d of being disloyal. In the "Courier" of August the 9th last he is thus reported- ·

" l\Ir. Lloyd Gcorge, referring to thf.' question of peace, said there were people in .;very country who regarded any effort to make peace as ·dishonourable and treasonable. That attitude must be steadfastly discouraged.''

Sm·ely to g-oodne•'i the members of the Op­position onght to take notiee of those words, awl not eontinue to make the statements thev have made \vith regard to this m·atter. The hon. member for Fitzrov has told us some of the reasons why reer;riting has not been the suceeos it ought to be; but other reason·; mi;;ht be mentioned. I happened to q-o down to the Post OP!kr' \rhen the Premier wa' sper,king there. and saw what took place vn that occasion. It was a disgrace to anv­or,e calling- himself a Xationalist the wav thP:c tried -there to howl down a speaker who \Va·· endeavouring to do what thev had ~'ked him to do. l\Ir. Ryan said, "'rf you do n...t want we. I am not gains- to come. I Y;C'nld rather not gf.'t up and speak if I :un going to cjo recruiting any harm." Thev dopped him from sv·aking, pre.cticalh hc.wlerl him down; and then thev howled again bC('HlSC he ·did what they wanted hirr, to do-not go on the platform. Tnke our own ease. in connection ,·-ith our own place :!\'ot a fnnetion was held in om own district that i\Ir. Cooper and I did not attend, when we could go. Bnt what was the resnlt so far as the Ipswich centre was concerned. whr·re the hon. membet· for Dravron and his L:icnds were? \Ve received n~ enconr­~grmcnt to go along and help them in any \\a::. whilst the Nationalist6, who wer<) op­l>Osed to 11''· recciYed all the encouragement r·n ~ibl0; the house "as nearlv knocked down wh~n they got oa the platf;rm. Yet thQy i'a v. " \Yhy do not these fellows eome along anJ take their place h~re ?" aft. er treating us in that way ! \Yhen we could not get the-re. and ,:;;ent an apology, they wrote in the paper that thHe were tittering, g1ggling, and laughing when the apologies were read out. TheRe are some of the statements that are mrrdc. which disconruge recruiting. I want to quote some things that happened i11 New South \Vales during the strike, in cc.rmcction with thes<) matters; showing that the workers of Australia are being treated in su~h a w~y (,o-day that it is no wonder they arc being disconragecl. Thf'y are being

[ilir. Gledson.

diseonragecl here. as they are e\·erywhere ehe. I find this statement is put in one of tho ::\ew South \Vale' ne,npapers-

" Aug~st Duncan (57) was charged with bchaYing in an offensiye 1nanner in Sussex street at the Central Court yester­day .

" The evidence for the prosecution was that the accused, who was a wharf labot!l'Cr and a member of the nnion, together with a number of others, called out ' There they go, daddy,' to about forty of the Loyalist Coaling Battalion, \Vho were returning to their woxk at Pyrmont.

"Duncan pleaded guilty. " Police Prosecutor Spycr told the

magistrate that it had been necessary to send special police to Sussex street to cope with this trouble.

"The magietrate (Mr. Smithers, S.M.); ' I'll teach you and others like you a lesson. I'll teach vou not to interfere with men who are '~illing to work. You arc fined £1 or fourteen days.'

" Accused was also required to enter into .t surety of £20 to be of good be­haviour for twelve months, in default two 1nonths' gaol."

Can '"" wondeJ' that the workers are in the state. thev are to-dav? \Ve find there are some oth"er thing· that have been done in connection with recruiting. Here is one of them-

" RECRCITIXG APPEAL.

" ELIG IBLES IX BIG FIR1!8.

"Strong Liction Taken. " Sydney, Monday.

"Following the rtppeal of Captain Car­michael that employers should assist the recruiting movement, the management of t!JG en!!ineerino- firm of 1\Iascey, H an·is, and Comnanv~ Limited, have handed written notic;s to ten of the young single men employed by the firm. One man Yoluntcered during the week-end, and one was rejectEOd and has be-en re-en­g·nged. Of the remaining eight, four ·were nineteen years of age, two twenty, and two twentv-one. Other firms, it has been l€arnecl, "<'tre issuing forms to be filled in stating age, married or single, whether rejccted by ihe milita~y or will· inO' to enlist now. The collectwn of the fo;ms. it is stated, h>:ts been followed by numcrom dismissal'. The mattf'r will probably be brought ~efor~ the Labour Coune1l on Thur;.day mght.

Now, can we wonder at the falling off in recmiting, when thi' is the action they h:;ve taken-practically to starve a man into gomg to the front 1

Mr. '\VEIR: A hero by starvation.

}1r. GLEDSOX: Ye,, a hero by starYa­tion. We find that many of these things have been done for that purpose. The hon. member for Bowen very apth- said last night, in his very fine speech, tl_1at we h'!ve to be careful while we are defeatmg Pruss101n militarism t~-dav in Europe, that we ·do not bring a worse f~rm of militarism _into Aus­tralia. IV e find there are dangers !11 connec­tion with these things-dangers that we are

Sup11ly. [30 AuGusT,] Supply. 1913

hardlv able to tell here. Here is a state­ment' of some of the dangers that have occurred in Great Britain through the effects of the war. It is necessary that we should know these things. This s'tatement is from the "People's Journal"-

" Within the last few months, I am told, there has been a perfect epidemic of marriages between English girls, principally munition workers, and negroes who have come to this country from the West Coast of Africa on war work. Seldom a week passes now that a du>ky bridegroom does not figure in a matrimonial ceremony in some part of London. The neg-roes are engagr'd in fadories and at the docks. and while thousands of white men arc ·in the fight­ing line the coloured ones are winning their way into many an English home.

"Already there is quite a neqro colony in the East End, and the police are be­coming anxious a' to the future. They have no complaint to make against the coloured men, ·who. bv all accounts, are on their best bchaviou'r. and givin,; very little trouble. ·

" Son1e of these negroes~ I lt~arned on inquiry. are earning handson1e money, not a few of them turning o\·er an in­come of £1~ and £12 a week. This in itself is always an attraction to a girl of humble birth. The coloured men, how­ever, show thei1· affection and devotion in fi. :varietv of wan, aJld not content with buying f1mcy" presents for their English sweethearts. thev also ' look after' the fathers and mothers of their brides."

These are some of the things .,-hich show us that we have to be careful where we are going. The Perth conference was absolutely right in laving down some sort of a basis ~ne! eaying 'that some steps should he taken n1 tr:ving to get to know where Australia is going. and \Vhat is the strength of Australia. I! they do tfiat, Au; tralia .,-ill be in a posi­tlon to know. and not go blind'old int'l a position ':·hich might not be tenable, and out of wblch she mig:ht come not so o-oocl as she is at present. .__ o

I have dealt with ;onw of the profits in Great Britain. WP ~ee the same thing applies in Australia to-day. TakE' the figures that are given in the. Victorian Year Book. This quotation says--

" A LESSO:-;' IK F!GcRES.

"To illustrate this important phase of wealth production-and exploitation-the followinq figures taken from the Vic­torian Year Book for 1909 and 1915 1vill prove instructive and illuminating:-

"Clothing ::Ylanufacturers in Victoria. "AverafYe wage earned in a year-

1909, £51 Ss.; 1915, £64 16. " Average value of finished output per

employee-1909, £177 2s. ; 1915, £236 18s.

"Leather Tanning in Victoria. "AYerage 1va~;e earned in a year-

1909, £89 18s.; 1915, £132 14s.

" Average value of finished output per employee-1909, £733 9s. ; 1915, £1,273 9s.

"The increase in ;,vages per e1nployee for the seyen years was £42 16s.

"The increase in value of output per employee for the seven years was £540.

" Bootmaking in Victoria. " Average wage earned in a year-

1909, £61 15s.; 1915, £94 11s. " Average yalue of finished output per

employee-1909, £221 5s.; 1915, £368 2s.

" All Manufacturing Trades in Victoria. "Average ;,vage earned in a year-

1909. £73 6s. ; 1915, £101 15s. '' Average ya]ue of finished output per

employec-1909, £355 10s. ; 1915, £474 6s. "The increase, therefore, in wages per

emplovec for thG seven years was £28 9s., and the increase in value of output per emplo,-rn for the se:ven years was £118 16s."

Mr. BEBBIXGTON : The workers should own those \vorks, the same as the farmers.

Mr. GLEDSOX: I am glad to hear the hon. member for Drayton saying that. and I hope he will agree ,:-ith us when we .are endeavouring to estabbsh St!lte Bnterprtses, c,.) that the 1vorkers shall recc1ve these profits instead of them going into the pockets of private individuals.

Mr. BEBBtXGTOX: The workers themse1ves -I did not say the State.

Mr. GLEDSO;';': I want to say a few \YOrd"~ in conne-~tion with r.~J0 repeated state· ment' of the Oppo,ition that this is a "Go­vernment uf repudiation." They say that we are repudinting onr contr,'tc~s, because. we ,ay to the p<cstoralists owning great stretches of coantry-}lc Jmvctt. I unde_r­'tand owns fiftv-nine blocks • of land 111

Quee~s!ancl-that' we a1·c going to pass . a measure which enables the Land Court. 111

Otwenslancl to fix a fair rental for these holdings, ,,-ithout any !imitation. \Ye say we arc not repudiating any . c~n.t.racts we have made. The present Oppos1t1on, when they were in power, repudiat.ed solemn CO';!· tracts which they made w1th the pubhc servants of the State, who started at a certain f:tlary, and wer~ entitled to auto­matic inneases. \Vhen Jt came to a poor school teacher earning· £60 or £70 a year, thev could repudiate an increase of £20-thc~· had no objection to that sort of thing. But when it comes to those who arc making £9,000 or £10,000 a. yc-ctr-and we sa.y that some of it belongs to the State, because the pastoralists are making ir )mt of the lands of the State-the Oppos~cwn charge n, >vith repudiation. I have a cutting here from a newspaper, dated Saturday, ~.5th May, reading-

" :c\AT!Oc;AL PARTY.

" WITHDR.\WS AFFILIATIOX WITH X.P.C.

"Scr·ious JJrwch in the fl,znJ.:s.

" It has been known in political circles for a eonsi derable time that there have been serious differences between the :c\ational Political Council and the Xational party in Queensland. Months before the recent. elections the friction arose, but in order to presGnt a. united

JJir. Uledson.] ...lrl

1914 Supply. [COF~CIL.] Bri,bane Tramway Fares Bill.

front to a common foe the brea eh was healed, and it 1vas thought that the trouble had been overcome for all time. Since the elections, however, fresh griev· ancts haye ari,,~:n. They culndnated during the week. when a meeting of the National party was held, and a decision arrived at that that hodv should with. draw its affiliation from" the ="ational Political Council. 'The following letter was ordered to be sent in explanation:-

The Secretary, Kational Political Coun­cil, Brisbane.

Dear Sir.-At a meeting of the National party executive committee he !cl vesterda v afternoon, the following r0solt1tion was agre~d to :-That in view of the deliberate and persistent hostilitv of the executive of the Xational Political Council towards the ::-;rational party and its executive, the <leclared intention of the chairman of the c·xecuti ve to prevent this party from obtaining "financial assistance, the non­payment o·f election account' for country electorates, which had been authorised and guaranteed by the chief on?;aniser. of the :!'\ ational Political Co-uncil, which practically amounts to repudiation."

They are not only accusing this side of repudiation, but they are accusing their own political council of repudiation. I suppose they haHl repudiation on the brain. (Hear, hear!)

I agrtee with the hon. member for Bremer when he savF that the e .. tablishment of iron and sted works is a matter that affects the whole of the State of Queensland. and that no member for any district should have any special daim as to where tnose works should be estarlished. The experts should be left to judge from the facts placed before them, and I have no doubt that-when the final judgment is given-it .,-ill be in the best inter0sh of Queensland. (Hear, hear !) I am speaking with a knowledge, not of my own district alone, because I have a know­ledge of most of the coalfields of Queens­land, having visited nearly all of them. 'The only way of determining whether a coal will make good coke or not is by the practical experiment of getting your ovens and coking your coal. You are not able to determine it by volatile test. A good deal depends on the ash that is contained in the coal as to the value of the coke for the purpose of smelting iron ore. If the coal contains a big percentage of silica, or ash, the coke is not satisfactory for the smelting of ore. But there are processes by whrch a large percentage of ash can be eliminated from the coal. I hope the Government will go on and establish this enterprise, wherever it may be placed. It will be in the best .i_nterests of the State, and will be a corollary to many other industries, which will start when we can produce iron and steel. (Hear, hear!)

The House resumed. The TEoiPORARY CHAIR'.IIA>< reported progrel'6, and the ·Com­mittee obtained leave to sit again on 'Tuesday next.

The House adjourned at twenty-nine minutes past 9 o'clock p.m.

[.Mr. Gledson.