58
Australians at War Film Archive Donald Mackie (Don) - Transcript of interview Date of interview: 2nd December 2003 http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/1191 Tape 1 00:38 If we could start with talking about your life in brief, and maybe start with… Tell them my name will I? Yeah, start with your name where you’re born and that sort of thing, so ready? Righto, my name is Donald Keith Mackie, I was born in Brisbane in 1922, I joined the navy in 01:00 April 1939, on the 14th of April, seven days after my 17th birthday. Went to Flinders, did five months at Flinders and war broke out. The night war broke out they cleared lower deck at Flinders and everybody the next day was on their way. I went on the old Larara, which was a minesweeper, and I was on that for a couple of years and then I went overseas. Three and a half years overseas, 01:30 came back to Australia, did a couple of months around the Queensland coast and went to New Guinea on the Bangalow, an old coal burner, then was there for three months and then came back to Brisbane and went to the Hobart and essentially went to the Warramunga. I went on as was a petty officer, got made a chief stoker, on that, went the career on the Warramunga, 02:00 and they sent me back to, my father died and they sent me back from Japan, and by 12 months and then I paid off in Brisbane. After that I got a job with the SEA [?] spent 30 years with them. And retired in 1982 in time for the Commonwealth Games. Since then, what’s that 21 years ago, I’ve played bowls, I’ve been president of the bowling club, I’m the patron of the bowling club. 02:30 What else, that’s about all, that’s my life. Well just on that three and a half years over seas in World War II, what were you serving on and what were you? Well I went to the Victory. We left here in December ’41 and we were almost in Pearl Harbor when war broke when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, we went down the South American, came up through the Panama Canal, 03:00 to Halifax, then to Scotland then to Portsmouth. I did four or five months, five months at Portsmouth, went on and passed as a PO [Petty Officer] then we commenced on Quickmatch and we served in the North Sea, we worked up the North Sea with the home fleet, half way to Russia and consequently we went down to south, ah to North Africa, 03:30 to the invasion of North Africa. Took a aircraft carrier that was hit on the flight deck over to States, came back, worked off Gibraltar for a while then started around the, down South Africa and we worked the Indian Ocean from then on. We did, one raid on Padang, it was a Japanese port and there were three destroyers 04:00 went in and bombarded threw torpedoes and everything around and we got out very smartly. We did a lot of damage, came back and went back on convoy duties. Came back to Australia, after, well I joined in August ’42, I left her in January ’45, the, then I, came to Moreton 04:30 made a PO in Moreton, and I this coal burner, the Bangalow was going north of the light ship and I was the only coal burning stoker PO that could take it off. Then spent three months on up there, we went Madang all those places, Rabaul, Manus Island, flew back to Australia, spent, six weeks on the Bermagui 05:00 and then to the Hobart and then to the Warramunga. And during this service time what was your main kind of roles on board? Oh I was down the engine room or I was in the gear room and then the boiler room, then the engine room, and that completed the duties of a stoker.

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AustraliansatWarFilmArchive

DonaldMackie(Don)-TranscriptofinterviewDateofinterview:2ndDecember2003

http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/1191

Tape1

00:38 Ifwecouldstartwithtalkingaboutyourlifeinbrief,andmaybestartwith…

TellthemmynamewillI?

Yeah,startwithyournamewhereyou’rebornandthatsortofthing,soready?

Righto,mynameisDonaldKeithMackie,IwasborninBrisbanein1922,Ijoinedthenavyin

01:00 April1939,onthe14thofApril,sevendaysaftermy17thbirthday.WenttoFlinders,didfivemonthsatFlindersandwarbrokeout.ThenightwarbrokeouttheyclearedlowerdeckatFlindersandeverybodythenextdaywasontheirway.IwentontheoldLarara,whichwasaminesweeper,andIwasonthatforacoupleofyearsandthenIwentoverseas.Threeandahalfyearsoverseas,

01:30 camebacktoAustralia,didacoupleofmonthsaroundtheQueenslandcoastandwenttoNewGuineaontheBangalow,anoldcoalburner,thenwasthereforthreemonthsandthencamebacktoBrisbaneandwenttotheHobartandessentiallywenttotheWarramunga.Iwentonaswasapettyofficer,gotmadeachiefstoker,onthat,wentthecareerontheWarramunga,

02:00 andtheysentmebackto,myfatherdiedandtheysentmebackfromJapan,andby12monthsandthenIpaidoffinBrisbane.AfterthatIgotajobwiththeSEA[?]spent30yearswiththem.Andretiredin1982intimefortheCommonwealthGames.Sincethen,what’sthat21yearsago,I’veplayedbowls,I’vebeenpresidentofthebowlingclub,I’mthepatronofthebowlingclub.

02:30 Whatelse,that’saboutall,that’smylife.

WelljustonthatthreeandahalfyearsoverseasinWorldWarII,whatwereyouservingonandwhatwereyou?

WellIwenttotheVictory.WelefthereinDecember’41andwewerealmostinPearlHarborwhenwarbrokewhenJapanattackedPearlHarbor,wewentdowntheSouthAmerican,cameupthroughthePanamaCanal,

03:00 toHalifax,thentoScotlandthentoPortsmouth.Ididfourorfivemonths,fivemonthsatPortsmouth,wentonandpassedasaPO[PettyOfficer]thenwecommencedonQuickmatchandweservedintheNorthSea,weworkeduptheNorthSeawiththehomefleet,halfwaytoRussiaandconsequentlywewentdowntosouth,ahtoNorthAfrica,

03:30 totheinvasionofNorthAfrica.TookaaircraftcarrierthatwashitontheflightdeckovertoStates,cameback,workedoffGibraltarforawhilethenstartedaroundthe,downSouthAfricaandweworkedtheIndianOceanfromthenon.Wedid,oneraidonPadang,itwasaJapaneseportandtherewerethreedestroyers

04:00 wentinandbombardedthrewtorpedoesandeverythingaroundandwegotoutverysmartly.Wedidalotofdamage,camebackandwentbackonconvoyduties.CamebacktoAustralia,after,wellIjoinedinAugust’42,IleftherinJanuary’45,the,thenI,cametoMoreton

04:30 madeaPOinMoreton,andIthiscoalburner,theBangalowwasgoingnorthofthelightshipandIwastheonlycoalburningstokerPOthatcouldtakeitoff.Thenspentthreemonthsonupthere,wewentMadangallthoseplaces,Rabaul,ManusIsland,flewbacktoAustralia,spent,sixweeksontheBermagui

05:00 andthentotheHobartandthentotheWarramunga.

Andduringthisservicetimewhatwasyourmainkindofrolesonboard?

OhIwasdowntheengineroomorIwasinthegearroomandthentheboilerroom,thentheengineroom,andthatcompletedthedutiesofastoker.

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Terrific.Okaywellwe’lltakeitrightbacktothebeginningandaskyou

05:30 totellusaboutyourparents,whatwasyourfatherlike?

Myfatherwasafarmer,hewasafirstgenerationScotsman.Hisfathercameoutin1890,hewasbornin1896,hewenttotheFirstWorldWar,marriedin1921,Iwasbornin’22andhecontinuedfarmingonoh,tillwellintotheSecondWorldWar.

06:00 He,whenIwas18IgotthecalluptotheservicesbutIwasintheservicesandhedecidedhe’dapply,he’dgoinmyplace,butthefirstpeoplehecameacrosswasadoctorwhoinvalidedhimoutintheFirstWorldWarandhesaidtohim,hesaid,“Youwon’tmakeitmate.”Andthatwasitandhediedin’51.

DidheevertellyouabouthisserviceinWorldWarI?

No,not

06:30 really,ohwellhewasagunner.Andthat’saboutallIknewabouthim.Sawphotosofhiminuniformandthatwasit.Butneverspoke,hewasattachedtotheNorthgateRSL[ReturnedandServicesLeague],andIjoinedup,IwasoneofthefirsttojoinuptheSecondWorldWar,soIwasoneofthefirstofthenewbreedintheRSL,butthen

07:00 I,Iwas,becauseIwasmarried,andIgaveitaway,theRSLandIjoinedanotherassociationandI’vebeentheresince1962Ithinkitwas,weformedtheheadquarterssubsectionandwemadeaheadquarterssubsectionwhenwehadthenavalclubhereinBrisbaneandthatwasin’61,’62Iwasthepresidentthen,but.

07:30 itfoldedandIjoinedtheOxleyclubsubsectionandI’vebeenwiththemeversince.

Andhedidn’ttalkaboutitbutdidhehaveanykindofsignsthathe’dbeenwarthatyounoticed?

Ohwellhehadabrokenarm,anammunitioncarrierranoverhisarmandbrokeit,hegotinvalidedout.

Andwithabrokenarm,likehowcouldhe

08:00 farmlike?

Ohit,ithealedbuthecouldn’tlikehecouldn’tgethisarmaround,hecouldonlyturnittothere,andthat’swhytheyknockeditbackintheSecondWorldWar.Butotherthanthathewasstrongheusedtoplaytennis,anything.

Andyourmother,whatwasshelike?

Ohshewas,wellshe,herfamilywasborninToowoomba.Symes.

08:30 TheylivedatZillmereandtheyapparentlymetduringthe,aftertheWorldWarIandtheyjustgotmarried.

Andtellus,wherewereyougrowingupin,wheredidyougrowup?

OutinZillmere,onthefarm.IwenttoZillmereStateSchool,butIalwayswantedtojointhenavy.AndIcouldhavegoneinearlierasaseamanbutno,

09:00 thelocalconstable,hesaidtome,hesaid,“There’sonlyonewayto,onenavytojoinandthat’sthestokers.”Becausehewasstokerandthenhecameoutthenthatwasit.WhenIturned17Iwentstraightin.

Didhetellyouwhyastokerwasgood?

Ohhereckonedtheywerethegentlemenofthenavy.AndIalwaysinsistedthestokerswerethegentlemenofthenavy.Ofcoursetheymakelotofjokesaboutstokers,butstokerswerethegentlemenofthenavy.

09:30 Whyisthat?

WellafewmisbehavedbutmostofthemwellbehavedandwhenwewereinEnglandItookacoupleofpartiestodifferentafternoonteaparties.Neverhadanytroublewiththestokers,seamenalwayshadtroublebutnotthestokers.But,ohwell,Isuppose,everybodytotheirownliking,but

10:00 we,andtheywereaprettygoodbunch,theystucktogetherprettywell,anybodygotintostrife,theyalwayshelpedthemout.

Whatkindofjokesweremadeofthem?

Ican’tthinkofany,buttherewerenumerousoneslikeoh,ohhehadtobeastoker,andallthis,andsoforth,seewejustcomebackfromBallina,wewentdownlastweekendtoBallina,itwas,navalreuniondownthere

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10:30 theyhaveabig,everyyearandofcoursetheymakejokesaboutstokersthere,but,itwasstokerswhorunitsoitmakesnodifference.

SotellusabouttheareaZillmere.Imeanwhatdiditlooklikeinthosedays?

Oh,lookedlikenothingonearthnow,itconsistedof,wellofcoursetherewastheMackie’sHill,thatwasthebigfarmonthetopofthehill.

11:00 AndthenMurphy’sRoad,itwasachurch,whichmygrandfathergavethelandto,andZillmereStateSchool,therewasone,two,twohouses,threehousesonthelefthandsideofMurphy’sRoad.One,twohousesontherighthandsideandthenyouwentdowntoZillmerestationandthatwasit.Therewas,

11:30 Barnes’hadalocalstorethere,Henry’shadalocalstore,therewasabutchershop,Huttonsbaconfactorywasoutthere.Andthatwasit,ZillmereRoadtherewas,about20housebutnotnowthere’shouseseverywhere.

Andonyourfarmwhatdidyourfamilygrow?

12:00 Wellwestartedoffgrowingpineapples,weusedtoshippineapplestoMelbourneandduringthewarwegotsomepineapplesandtheycostusa,Ithinktheywereashillingeachandweusedtogetthemuphereforpracticallynothing.But,noandthenofcoursetheywentintosmallcrops,the,myfather

12:30 hadtomatoes,andtheyusedto,peopleused,thegreengrocersusedtocomeouttotheplaceandtakethemfromthefarm,wouldn’t,couldn’tsendtheminthemarketbecausetheywouldn’tmakeit,they’dtakeitbeforetheygottomarket.Lettuce,we’dtaketwoorthreetruckloadsoflettuceinthemarketandtheywouldn’tcomeoffthetruckthey’dbesoldoffthetruck.Sohe,hedidallrightoutofit,yeah.Sothenofcoursewhenwarbrokeouthehelpedinthewareffort.

13:00 Andwhat’sitlikegrowinguponafarm?

WellIhadarealgoodlife.Weusedtoplaytennisandofcourseitwaswellknitunit,youcansayunitbecauseeverybodykneweverybodyandIusedtogoandplaytennisusedto,wellIplayedcricketatschool,Iplayedtennisatschool.

13:30 ThenwhenIgotoldenoughweusedtoridetoSandgate,tothebathesatSandgateandgoforaswim,andinvariablyfoundsomebodyfromZillmeredownthereandno,itwasaquiteagoodlife.AndwhenIjoinedthenavy,itwasquitedifferent,differentlifealtogetherbutthenIsoonadaptedtoit.

14:00 Andwhatwastheschoollikethatyouwentto?

Ohitwasaverygoodschool.Ofcourseinthosedaystheyonlywentasfarasscholarship,thenyouwenttojuniorschool,it’sadifferent,differentsetupnow.But,noitwas,quitegood.

What’sitlikeforyougoingtoZillmerethesedays?

OhI’vebeenoutthereacoupleoftimes,wewentout,we’vebothsince,ohwelltheysoldtheoldplacein1957.

14:30 But,beenoutandthey’verenovatedtheplaceandit’sbeautifulouttherenow.But,oh,there’sallHousingCommissionhousesoutthereandwellHutton’saregoneandboth,insteadofhavingtogoroundthroughZillmereyougostraightovertherailwaylinenow,butotherthanthatithasn’tchangedIdon’tthink.

15:00 There’sstillafewpeopleoutthereIknow.

Andsodoyoufeelyouhadacountryupbringing,soclosetothecity?

WellIdon’tknowit’s50,50,itwascountryandyougotto,yeahwell,Isupposeofcourseyoucouldgototownin20minutes.Anditwasarailwaystation,butweusedtogointhecar,

15:30 sonotliketoday,you,Iwasout,IwasoutatthededicationofthegatesofMartinsParkandthetrafficalongat,atGympieRoaditwasfantastic,itleavesyoufordead,Youthink,“Whereinthehelldidallthesecarscomefrom?”Thesameashere,thenight-timecominghome,itstartsatthreeo’clockandit’sstillgoingathalfpastsix.

Soduringthosedaystellusabouttrips

16:00 tothecity.WhatwasBrisbanelike?

Wellitwasa,practicallyacountrytown.Therewasnoneofthebigbuildingsdowntheretoday,Iusedtoworkintown,Iusedtoride,pushmybikeintotowneveryday.20,25minutesonthebikeandusedtobeallright,youcould,youknowwherefrightenedtorunoverwherethere’sno

16:30 bikelanesoranything,itwasjustroadonthetrafficaseverybodyelse.

Andwhatjobwereyoudoinginthere?

IworkedatHannaford’s,thebadgepeople.AndwhenitwasgettingclosetogoingintothenavyIgave

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itaway.Wentonthefarmforaboutafortnightandthenwentintothe.

Hannaford’s,whatweretheydoing?

TheywerebadgepeopleinMaryStreet,that’swherethe

17:00 new,ohwellit’snotnewnow,theelectricitycrowdis.

Andsotelluswherethisdesiretojointhenavycamefrom?

EversinceIwasabout12,Iwantedtojointhenavy,I’mtheonlyoneinthefamilyortherelativesthatwantedtojointhenavy.Mysondoesn’twanttojointhenavy,neithermykids,

17:30 grandkidsandsoforth.That’s,noIalwayswantedtojointhenavyandIenjoyedeveryminuteofit.EvenbeforeIpaidoffonthegeneralservice,IsaidI’dgointothereserveandIdidandIspent18yearsinthereserve.SothelastfiveyearsinthereserveIspentwiththefleetreserve,theemergencyreserve,andtheycouldsendusanywherebecauseIvolunteeredstraightaway,ifthey

18:00 wantedmeIcouldgoanywheretheywantedmeto.Iwasatrainedhand,youdon’tlearnyourtrainedhandinafewminutes.Iwasatraineddestroyerhand.

CanyouthinkofhoworwhythisdesirecametoyouonafarminZillmere?

NoIdon’tknowIjustwantedtojointhenavyandthatwasit.

Wasittheshipsor?

No,neverbeenonashipuntil

18:30 Iwenttosea.AndIenjoyedeveryminuteofit.

Wasittheocean?

WellIsupposesobecauseIusedtodoalotofswimming.No,justadesireIhadandthat’swhatIhadandthat’swhatIwantedandthat’swhatIgot.

Sotellusaboutjoiningup.

Well,the,was,cornerofEdwardandAliceStreetwasthenavaloffice,the

19:00 CommanderRhodes,wasoldDustywastheblokeincharge.Allmypeoplewentdownwentwithme;Iwastooyoung.Andtheysaid,“Oh.”Isaid,“Iwanttobeastoker.”“Ohyoucanjointhe…”“Idon’twanttobeaseaman.Iwanttobeastoker.”ThedayIturned17,IgotalettertosayIwouldbegoingtoFlindersonthe

19:30 14ofApril.EightdaysafterIturned17IwasonthewaytoFlinders.

Howdidyoufeelaboutnews?

Elated.Veryelated.The,Isupposeit,everykidslifewas,wantstobesomethingandthatwaswhatIwantedtobe.

Howdidyourparentsfeelaboutit?

Noobjections.

20:00 Noobjectionsatall,ofcourseDadwasanex-army,hewaselatedthatIwenttothe,buthewouldhavelikedmetogotothearmybutIpreferredthenavy.

Didtheyhavetosignanypapersor?

Ohyeah,theyhadtosignthepapers,becauseIwasunder18andinthosedaysunder18youcouldn’tgotowar.EvenwhenwarbrokeoutifIwasstillunder18,theycouldn’tsendmeoverseas.

20:30 Sothat’swhyIwenttotheoldLarara.

Whataboutyourmother?Howdidshefeelaboutit?

SamewayasDaddid;theywerequitehappy.

Didyouhavetogothroughamedicaloranything?

Ohyeah,strictestmedicalever.

Tellusaboutit.

Ohit’salongwhileagonow,butnosamemedicalas,heart,everything,youknow.Checkyour,everywhereyouwantedtobe.

21:00 Anyunusualtests?

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No,no.TheonlyunusualtestwaswhenIwentinthenavytheygaveyouthebloodyneedles.Andthatwas

Andwhatneedlesdidtheygive?

Ohvaccinations,fourorfiveneedlesthatmadeyousickforafewdays,butIgotoveritallright.Evenduringthewartheygiveusneedleseverynowandthen.Ifyoulineupandyougotbothhandsonhipsandoneeachsideofyouandbang,bang,bandyou’refinished.

21:30 Butno,nevergotseasick,ohonlyonce,oneoftheneedleshad,oneofthedoctorsgavetheneedleswrong,andIcouldputmyhandinmypocketandIcouldn’ttakeitoutagain.Itlastedabout12hoursandthenitwentaway,buthegavetheneedleswrongandtheskipperwas,wewereontheWarramungaatthetimeandtheskippersaid,“He’snotgoingnorthwithus.”

22:00 Thatdoctorneverwentnorthwithus,wedidn’thaveadoctor.

Andsowhathadhedone,he’dinjectedinthewrongplace?

Yeah,he’dhitit,insteadofputtingitinslantways,he’dwhackeditstraightin.Ofcourseparalysed,everybody’swalkingaroundwithaparalysedrightarm.Youknow.Nobodyobjected,ohwellthesailorsdidn’tafterthefirst12hours,

22:30 therewasalotofverymuddy,angrywiththedoctoratthetime.Theywantedtokillhimifthey’dhavegotthechance.

Howdidadoctormakeamistakelikethat?

Idon’tknow,Idon’tknow.The,sickbayassistanttoldushe’dmadethemistake.BubsyMackenziewasthe,sickbayassistantandhewasvery,wellhegot,hemade

23:00 matronoutatBalmoral…Hewasveryintelligenthewasabitqueer,buthelookedaftereverybody.His‘littledarlings’heusedtocalleverybody.

Whatdidyouthinkofthisguyinthesickbay?

OhBubsywasgood,ohgoodyeah.Notroubleatall.

Didpeoplemindthefactthathewasa?

No,no,becausetheyknewthey’dgetthebestofattention.

23:30 Butohno,no,hegotonverywellwiththecrew,senthimovertoBalmoralandcamebackandgotmadematronoverthereandeverybodythatIrunacrossspeaksveryhighlyofhim.

Sohewasneversingledoutbecausehewasqueer?

Ohno,no.Noeverybodyacceptedhimashewas.

24:00 Andsotellus,fromjoiningupyougotyournoticethatyouweretogotoFlinders?

Yeah,IwenttoFlinders,ittookus,weleftthereSaturdaymorningandgottoFlindersMondaynight,wentup,hadtomarchdowntothegateatFlinders,becausetherewas,notruckstotakeusthere,inthosedayswedidn’thavetrucksandaswewalkedupfromthegatewaytothe

24:30 ah,everybodywasyellingout,allthosethathadbeeninacoupleofweeks,“You’llbesorry,”butno,allthefiveblokesthatIjoinedupwithenjoyedthemselves.

Tellusaboutthejourneythere,likehowdidyougetthere?

OhIwentdownbytrain.Went,gottoSydney,waitedacoupleofhoursthenjoinedaMelbournetrain.AndfromMelbournewewentfrom,

25:00 ohwewenttoFlindersStreetandthenwentdowntoCribPoint.

Whatwasthisjourneylike?Wasthisthefirsttimeyou’dleftBrisbane?

Yes,itwasthefirsttimeI’dleftBrisbane.

Sowhatwasitlikeforayoungman?

Oh,look,Ithinkweallenjoyedit,IknowIdid.Ithinkwewereallexcitedwe’djoinedthenavyandthatwasit.But,ohno,andwewere

25:30 inMelbourneIthinkacoupleofhoursandIthinkwehadfourtypesofweatherinoneday.

WhatwasitlikeseeingthesebigcitieslikeSydneyandMelbourne?

Nodifferenttoanythingelse;Ijusttookitasagrainofsalt.Didn’twalkaroundwithmyheadintheair,“Oohyeah,lookatthat,”andsoforth.Justtookitwithagrainofsaltandthatwasall.

Andsotellus,youtoldusaboutthemsaying,“You’llbesorry,”

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26:00 buttellusaboutyourotherfirstmomentwhenyoumarchedintoFlinders?

WellwhenwegottoFlinders,thefirstthing,theygaveushammockstosleepin,firsttimeIeversleptinahammockandIfounditverycomfortable.He,nextmorning,weallwentanddidanothermedical,givenourneedlesandthenwewerefittedoutwithuniformsinthosedaystheyfitteduniformsthatusuallyreadyuniforms,theydidn’tmakeuniformsthatyoufittedtothem,yougrewintothem.

26:30 Andtheylookedlikesacksonyou,butafterawhileacoupleofweeksthereyoustartedtofilloutandtheydidn’tlooksobadafterall.Butno,noquitegood.Andthenwestarted,13weeksparadeground.

Whatwerethefirstthingstheysaidtoyouwhenyoulineduporcameinlikethecommandingofficers,whatdidtheysaytoyou?

Oh,Idon’tknow,

27:00 theyjustexplainedtouswhatitwaslike,wewereexpectedtodothis,weweretodothis,wewereexpectedtodothatandobeyorders,andeveryoneonparadegroundwithPOs.WellwehadourPO,pettyofficerwasthenameofCooper,AlanCooper,hewasagoodbloke.Hehadusfor13weeksforparadeground.Welearntrifledrillandsoforth.

27:30 Thelastweekwewentovertothegunneryrange,taughthowtofiretheriflesandthenwewenttoengineeringschool.Theengineeringschool,it’sanother13weeks,noitwasn’t,itwasn’t13weeksitwas10weeksengineeringschool,passedoutwith,wewerequalifiedasstokers.

28:00 Wedid,oh,what,everytheytriedtotakeusthroughasmostmodernastheycouldinthosedays.Andthen,whenwarbrokeoutitwasontheSundaynightandtheyclearedlowerdeckandannouncedwewereatwar.

Beforewegetthereweprobablygomoredetailatthetraining.Doyourememberanyoftheinitialofficers

28:30 whoputyouthroughthetraining,whatweretheirpersonalitieswerelike?

Well,therewasacouplethat,one,ohhisnameIcan’tthinkofhisname,hewasinchargeofthe(UNCLEAR)school,heusedtodrinkabottleofgineverymorningbeforehe’dstartschool,butotherthanthatnotroubleatall,theywereallreasonablygoodblokes.

Howwasdisciplineinstilledin…?

29:00 Verygood,blokeswouldjump,allyouaskedishowhigh.No,theywerewelltrained.

Howdidtheyinstilthedisciplinethough,you’dcomefromafar,howdoyougetkindof,takenintothenavyworld?

Wellitwaseasyforme,Idon’tknow,apparentlyI,itstruckmestraightaway,Ienjoyedit,butifwe’re

29:30 talkingaboutdiscipline,atFlinderstheygottwo,ohalltheyhad,Idon’tknowaboutnow,buttheyhadtwofootballfields,andonewasifyoumisbehave,ormadeawrongmoveyougoforatrot,withrifleheldoutthere,youeverheldathreeohthree?Atarmslength?Itellyouwhatitgetsveryheavy.Andyourunaroundafootballfieldandyoucomebacktospot,afteryoudothatacoupleoftimes,younevermadeamistake.

30:00 Andwhatyourbarracksandyouruniform,Imeanwhatdidyouhavetodowithyouraccommodation?

Well,wellyouhadtolookafteryourownkit,theytook10dollars,ohitwasn’t10dollars,10shillingsaweek,outofyourpay,no10shillingsafortnightoutofyourpaywhenyouwenttoseayouhadafullkitsoyou,itwasmadeupofthe10shillingstheytook

30:30 outofyourpay.Andwegottwobobaday.

Whatwasyourkit?

Ohthreeuniforms,sixes,twosetsofsixes.Twosetsoffive’sthatwas,wellsixesarethewhitewithallthecollars;thefiveswerethe,thesamethingbutwithoutacollar–

31:00 youhadtoattachthecollar.

Sothey’rewhiteswithwhat?

Withthethreestripesonthecollar.Thesixesdidn’thavethecollar–theywereaworkinguniform.Theothersarejustparadeandsoforth,show.Andthenyougotshorts,socks,yougotacompletekit.Youdidn’tgetunderwear–yousuppliedyourownunderwear.Theygaveyoueverythingelse.

31:30 Lookedafterit,andwhenyouwenttosea,youhadakitmusterandwhattheygaveyouandtookitoutofyourpay.

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AndwhatwereyourquartersatFlinders?

Theyweredormitories,oneclasswouldhaveadormitory,wehad20bedsadormitory.

32:00 This,youhadatidyupbeforeyouwentoutonparadeandyouhadthis,atsixo’clockyouwereoutforPT[physicaltraining]andthenyouwentoutandhadbreakfast.At,eighto’clockyou’rebackontheparadegroundtillhalfpasttwoandyouhadatenminutebreak,andthenbackontheparadegroundtill12o’clock.Thenyouwentandhaddinner,

32:30 backontheparadegroundatoneo’clock.Afternoonyouhadtoplaycompulsorysport,soifyousay,“Oh,Ineverplayhockey,”you’dplayhockeythisafternoon,youweretoldwhattoplay.SoAussie[Australian]Rules,RugbyLeague,RugbyUnion,hockeyanything.Didn’tplaythefinergamesoftennisoranythinglikethatbutyoutookthatlateron,

33:00 butno,no,becausetheybelievedinahealthybodyahealthmind.The,andthenafter13weeksyoupassedoutinparadewewere,ourparadewas109andwewerethetopclassonparade.Soitwasa,afeatherinCoopershat.

Andtelluswerethereanyskillstobeastokeratthisstage?

Notyet,notasastoker.

33:30 Thenwewenttoengineeringschoolandwestartedofthereasastoker,youusedtomarchateighto’clockinthemorningweusedtofallin,marchdowntotheengineeringschool,gotothevariousclasses,marchbackagain,afterlunch,backdowntoschoolagain.Andfouro’clockweusedtomarchbackupagain.Thenyoucouldplaysportorifyoupickedtoplay

34:00 tosportintheafternoon,you’dplaysportinsteadofgoingtoSchool.But,no,noitwasquitegood.

Howwereyoucopingwithallthis,ayoungman?

Notroubleatall,notroubleatall,Ilovedit.

Wereyoumakingmateswiththeotherblokes?

Ohyeah,everybody,thesixofusthatwentdownorthefiveofusthatwentdownfromherewereallgoodmates.Thereweresome,therewas

34:30 oneasteward,twoseamen,andtherest,(UNCLEAR),BillyVeckandmyselfwerestokers.

Andasastoker,whatspecificthingswereyoulearningintheclass?

Welltheclasswasmainlyonoilburning,howtohandlestokers,howtohandlestoves,cleanthem,clean

35:00 bilges,theywerethedirtypart,butdoallthat,doallthejobsthatstokersdo.Andthen,whenwarbrokeouttheboysweresentto,inthedestroyers,theywereshippedofftoSydneybutseeingIwas17andahalf,Icouldn’tgoandIwassentwentto[HMS]AurorainOctober,’39.

35:30 Tellusabouthearingthenewsofwardeclared?

Welljustdeclaredandthatwasit.Andyesthey,thecaptainofthedepot,hegotupontheloudspeaker,hesaid,“We’reatwarnowwithGermany.”

Hadyouhearditontheradio?

No,nothefirstthingweheard.Ithinkwehearditaboutthreeminutesbeforeheclearedlowerdeck.Butitwas,forthcoming,weknewitwasonanytime,but

36:00 upuntilthenithadn’tmadetheannouncement.

Andhowdidyoufeelaboutthisnews?

Didn’tmakeadifference.I’dhavegonetojointhearmyatanyrate.

Sotellus,takeusthrough,processofwhathappenedtoyounext?

WellIwenttotheoldLarara,withthenameof,chiefstokerofthenameofTockerLea

36:30 andhewasafirstclassstokerputmedownontheshoaldownbelowintheboilerroomandshowedushowtofireandsoforth.AndIgraduallymovedfromthatuptoasecondclassstoker.Stillthesamething.

Takeusthroughjustthatinitialfirstfewdaysofarrivingontheshipwhatwasthefeelinglike?

Wellwehadtofindourwayaround.The,oh,

37:00 thenIhadtogodownbelowandgetsteamedup,wehadafiretheboilersupandoncewegot,learnedtheknackofthatwewereallright,wecouldworkthesea,wewereminesweepingoffBassStrait,andthenwe,in1940wesweptupthefirstminethatfoundAustralia.Wesayandwe,allthoseonboardsay

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37:30 thattheJapaneselaidit,andnotthey,itwascleanedthesaybeforebecausewe’djustsweptit,wesweepfromPortMelbournetoWilsonsPromontory.Itwasclearedthedaybeforeandthenextdaytherewasamine.AndwesweptupaminesothatnightaJapaneseshipwentthroughandweallsaiditwastheJapaneseshipthatlaidthemine.

So,

38:00 Whatwasthatlike,didthatbringhomesomedanger?

Ohtherewasadangertoit,butwewereall,wellwesweptwiththepowervain,youknowanditcameupandtheysunkit,ortheyblowit,andthatwasit.

Andwhatasthemoralelikeonboard?

Ohquitegood.Westartedoffwithapermanentskipperbutthenwewent,

38:30 therewasamerchantserviceblokewhowastakenintothenavy,hisnamewasJessFyfe.Hewasaverygoodmanaswell,andmostreserveofficersonboard,Chambers,RHChamberswastheengineer,theScotsman,whocameoutfromScotlandontheoldAurora,in1900,

39:00 orIdon’tknowwhatyearhecameout,hisengineswasperfect,heusedtolookafterthemlikehelookedafterhisownchildren.OfcoursehewasanoldwellIwouldn’tsayoldbuthewasanorthcoastseanavigator,heusedtotradebetweenGraftonandSydney,andapackingship,

39:30 refrigeration,everythingonit.Andtherightdownthedeckitwasall,thecabinsweretakenoutandthemessdecksweremadeoutofit,but,therefrigerationonboardwasgoodtheymadethehull,theytooktherefrigerationoutofthehullandmadeitacoalbunker,sowehadreservesatthefrontandtwoonthesides,leftandrightbunkers.

40:00 We’lljustpausetherebecausewe’vecometotheendofthattape.

Tape2

00:38 SowhattypeofashipwastheAurora,intermsofwasthecrewhappy?

Wellitwasitwasaveryhappycrew.Therewasa,theyacoastalshipconvertedintoaminesweeper,andofcoursetheyallhadtolearnminesweeping,andthefirst

01:00 coupleofmonthstheydidnothingelsebutsweepupanddowntheBassStraittoPortPhillip,to,geeIcan’tthink,I’vejustforgotten,butthatwas,theylearntitandoncetheygottheknackofittheycouldsweep.Wesweptalong,Ithinkwe’vestillgottherecord,wesweptthelongestinoneday.She’sasingleengineshipand

01:30 wedid,oh,wellatthetimeweheldtherecord,noneofthemodernships,orinthosedaysmodern,the,couldn’tkeepupwithus,wecouldsweepfasterthananyone.

Andtellmeaboutyourspecificrole,whatwereyoudoingtobeginwithintheship?

Iwasthestoker.AndI,astokerthirdclassandIwasdowntheboilerroomfiring

02:00 thecoalintotheboilers,tokeepupsteam.

Andwhatwasitlike,beingthatthiswasyourfirstsortofposting?Howwereyoutreatedbypeoplewhohadperhapsbeeninthenavyabitlonger?

Welltheywerequitegood,quitegood.Therewerethreeofusonboard,threeyoungstersandwewereallright,wewerewithalotofpreviousserviceblokesbutweweretreatedjustthesameastheywere.

02:30 Wasthereanysortofonthejobtrainingthattheyweregivingyou?

No.Welearntourselvesthehardway.But,noitwas,ohwellafterawhileitwasthateasyyoucoulddoitinyoursleepmoreorless.

AndtellmyhowtheboilerroomwassetupontheAurora.

Twoboilers,twotankboilers.Threefires,twohighfires,twolowfires.

03:00 What’sthedifference?

Wellthetwofires,thetwohighfiresareupthere,andthelowonesdownthere.Andifyou’retallenough,becauseIwasfivetenandahalfwhenIjoinedthenavy,Icouldfirethetopfireandthatwasoneofmyjobsbutwecouldfireanything.Afterawhileyoucouldthrowshovelinanywhereyouliked.

Andphysicallyhowhardwasthework?

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Afterthe

03:30 firstcoupleofweeksitwasaseasyaspie.Everybodygotusedtoit,gotabitofconditionintothemandnotroubleafterthat.

Andhowaboutthosefirstfewweeks?

Wellyou’dgooffwatchandyouweretired.Andafterthatnotroubleatall,we’dcomeupondeck,withGodknowswhatafterfourhoursdownbelowandeverybody

04:00 wasthesame.

Andwhattypeofcoal,isthereaspecificthatyouuseintheseboilers?

Wellweuse,ohbecauseanthraciteisthebesttypeofcoalyoucanget.Mainlyweusedtouseanthracite,butwedidgetalotofcoal,orwedidn’tgetalotofcoal,wegotsomecoalfromNewZealandthatwasthatfinethatitwentthroughthegrates,wehadtokeeponrefiringit.Butwenevergotitagain.

04:30 Andthefirsttypeofcoalyoumentioned.

Anthracite.

Whatmakesthatsuchagoodcoal?

Wellitholdstheheatandit’squickfiring.Andgivesoffalotofheatandholdsit.

Andwhat’stheboilerroomlikeintermsoftemperatureandsoundandthatsortofthing?

Welltheseboilerroomswereventilated

05:00 andonthemodernshipsthey’reallenclosed.But,thiswas,thisboilerroomwasquiet,allyoucouldhearistheshovelsgoingin.But,noitwas,quitegooddownthere,weenjoyedit.

Andyousayitwaswellventilated,howwasitventilated?

Welldoorsuptoptheboilersonbothsides,

05:30 plentyofairinthere,plentyofair.

Andwhodidyoureceiveordersfrom,whatwasthatchainofcommand?

Ohchiefstokers.

Andwhatwouldatypicalorderhavebeeniftheywantedtospeeduptheship,whatwould…

Ohno,the,itcamethroughfromthebridgetotheengineroom,whenthesteamstartedtogo

06:00 wekeeponfiring,thatwasall.

Sotherewerenospecific?

No,no,onlyonthebridgeandtheengineroom,andofcoursethebridgewasslow,deadslowsoforth.

Andyoumentionedthatwhenyoufirstcameinthereafewotheryoungstershadjoinedwithyou,weretheyintheboilerroom?

Yeahweallworkedintheboilerroom.

Andwhatwasyoursortofrelationshipwiththemlike?

Welltheywerelikebrothers.

06:30 Theywerelikebrothers,we,wellweformedacomradeshipamongstus,matteroffactalltheboilercrowddid.butthese,therewasPaddyHannonmyself,SamBurts,allyoungsters,weusedtoallgoashore,whenwecouldgetashore,goashoretogether.Andthosedays,ifIwantedtogotoshoreatnight,Ihadtogetpermissionfromoneofthechapsonboard,

07:00 hismotherformetogoandstopovernightwith.Myleavewasuntil10o’clock.

Whyisthat?

Wellboys’leave.

Andworkingwithcoalallthetimewasit,wereyousortofgettingreallydirtyand?

Ohyes,youcomeupblackastheaceofspades.But,evenwhenyoucoldship,

07:30 you,thedustwouldgoeverywhere,Imeantakeyouacoupleofweekstocleanupafterwards.

Andwouldotherpeople,otherareasoftheshipyouknow?

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Theywerethesame,theyusedtohelpthecoalship,everyoneonacoalship,notonlystokers,butcoalships,allhandsin.

Andhowwouldthatbedone,whatsortofequipmentwouldyouuse?

Wellweusedtakeitfromtheforwardhull,

08:00 Bywinchinbaskets,wheeledalongtothebunkersandtippeddowntothebunkers.We,oh,somewereatseaforthreeweeks.

Howmuchcoalisthat?

OhIwouldn’tknow,itwasalotofcoal.Youcouldsayonehundredand,oh,fivesix,aboutathousandtonofcoal.

Andjustdescribetheboilerroomformeinterms

08:30 ofwherearethebunkersforthecoalandwherearethedifferentfiresandallthatsortofthing.

Welltakealookatthisroom,itwasoneboilerthere,oneboilerbehindus,andthebunkerswereontheside,youusedtofeedfromthebunkersfromtheside.

Andyou’djusttakethecoalfromthebunkers?

Yes,ofcourseitwasopentoallthe,takeitfromthere.

Andwhatwasyoursortofstandarduniformyouwouldwearin

09:00 theboilerroom?

Overalls.Overalls,andalittlecap.

Wastheremuchriskofaccident,wastheresortofwithallthephysicalworkthatwasgoingonwithallthefiresand?

Well,theonlytimeofthe,wasanaccidentwehadwhenwewereinroughsea.Andtheshipwastossingandturningyouknow.

Whatcouldhappenthen?

09:30 Wellslideacrosstheplace,seeyou,therewasnothingtostopyou,likeyoucouldgetonthatandslide.Andyoucouldevenhittheashejectororhitthebunker,butninetimesoutoftenyouprettysecureonyourfeet.

Soinareallyroughseahowdidyoumakesurethatyoudidn’t?

Well,the,

10:00 wedidn’t,ohwelleverybodygotthatsecureintheirfeet,itwasajoke,likeyoucouldpracticallyturntheshipupsidedownandyoustillbeonyourfeet.Buttheonlytroublewassickness,they’dgetseasick.AndIdidn’t,becauseyoustoppeddownthereforeighthours.Ofcoursesomeweresick.

Wouldyougetseasick?

No,neversick,nevergotseasickinmylife.

10:30 I’vebeendowntheremanyatimelikeI’vejustcomeoffwatchandgodownbelowagain,soandso’ssick,yeahrighto.Nobodyobjectedtheyallknewwhattheyhadtodosotheyalljustwentanddidit.

AndtheBassStrait’sprettyroughisn’tit?

Itcanbelikeapond.Anditcanbeasroughasyoucanget,thesameasthe[Great]AustralianBight.

Andsogoingthroughthe

11:00 BassStraitonyourfirstship,howlongdoesittakeyoutogetyoursealegsinasense?

OhIdon’tknow,IthinkIalwayshadsealegs.Notroubleatall.Therearetimeswhenyougetthrownaroundbutusuallyyou’restraightuponyourlegsandasgoodasgold.

Andwhatwas,youknowyouwantedtobeinthenavyforsuchalongtime,whatwasitlikewhenyouwerefinallyonyourfirstshipatsea?

11:30 WellIwantedtogoon,inthosedaysamoderndestroyer,butagewasagainstmeandtheyputmetoseaandtherewasacoupleofshipstobeon.

Wasitagoodintroductiontothenavy?

Yesitwas.Ilearntthehardwaybytheendofashovel,anditneveraffectedmeatall.

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DidyouhaveplansofIguessmovingfurtherupintootherparts

12:00 ofthe,intotheengineroomand?

OhyeahImadechiefstokerbutno,withthe,you’dgofromengineroomboilerroom,afteryoudidsolongintheboilerroom,youwentovertotheengineroomandlearntallabouttheengines.Andthen,wentintorefrigerations,minesweeping.Andyou,everyso,everythreemonthsyougetchangedaroundsoyouknewthe

12:30 shipbackwardsandforwards.

Sotellmeabitabouttheengineroom,whatsortofthingswouldyoudointhere?

Welltendtheengines,likethey,expansions,andthesingleengines,theywere,thumpinggreatthings.Andweusedtolookafterthem,youhadtooilthemandfeelthebearings,andthereisaspecialwaytofeelbearings

13:00 becauseeverythingisgoingupanddown,you’vegottofindthebits,youfeelitwiththebackofyourhand.Sothen,ifyouwentthatwayyougetyourfingerscaught,thebackofyourhandthey’llshutitandthrowitaway.

Andwhatareyoufeelingforin?

Heatinthebearings.Welllookedafterthere’snoheatinthematall.But,Idon’tthinkweevergotahotbearingonthe

13:30 Auroraatall.

Andisitlackofoil,andfriction?

Wellthat’srightyougottokeeplubricatingit.I’mthe,wellthelattertypeonthefrigates,they’vegotautomaticlubricationbutyoustillgottolookafterthem.

Andintheengineswereyoumonitoringthesteamcomingthroughandthissortofthingor

Ohwentbygauges,youhadallthe

14:00 gaugesandthegaugeswereuptothelevelyouhadtobe,wellI’mwiththeboileryouhadkeepthepressurerightupifyouslowdown,orsomethingthey’dlifethesafetyvalve.

Andhavingbeen,havingbeenintheboilerroomandthenbeingintheengineroom,likedidyouthinkmoreabout,likewheredidyoumisstheshovelling?

No,no,no.

14:30 IsupposeI,Ilikedasmuch,anyofthemasmuchasanyother.

Andisthereadifferentatmospherefromtheboilerroomtotheengineroom?

Nowewereallthesameandthestokersallthesame.Whetherboilerroom,gearroom,engineroomengineroom.

Whathappenedinthegearroom?

Wellonthedestroyers,you’returbines,yougotyourengineroom

15:00 yougotyourengineroom,gothroughthebulkheadsandyougotgears,yourgearingforyourpropellers.That’saboutall.

Andwhatdoesyourworkinvolveifyou’reinthere?

Nothing,justtoseethateverythingisallright.

Soyouwouldn’tbeassignedspecificallytothegearroom?

Onthemoderndestroyers,yes.Seethey,onthe,QClassdestroyer,

15:30 was,wecarried13leadingstokers,threetogearroomthreetotheengineroom,threetoeachboilerroom,andoneupperdeck,soyougot13leadingstokersandtheyrotatedeverythreemonths.

Whatdoestheoneontheupperdeckdo?

He’sthechiefstoker’soffsider;herunsaroundwiththewater,everythingelse.Thewatergoesto,

16:00 anymessagestothechiefstoker,hedefinitelywants,thechiefstokerwantssoandso,ohgoandgetsoandsoformewillyousohegoesandgetshim.

Andwhereisthechiefstokerbased?

Wellhe’sgothisoffice,gothisofficerupthere,helooksafterthe,everybody’smaintenance,welleverydayroutinethat’sall.

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16:30 Hewritesthewatchbills,andyouprobablysay,“Ohyeahreadwhatsoandsoandsoandso…”Youcouldpickitoutwheretheyare.Andyouwantsoandso,“Oh,he’sonafternoonshift.”Soyouknowwheretheyare.

Andontheminesweeperthatyoumentionedthatyoudothreemonthsonthat.Canyoutellmewhatyourjobonthatwouldbe?

17:00 Onthewinches,theseamendidtheparavanesandallthat,butstokerwasonthewinches.

Andwhatwouldyoudoonthewinches?

Winditinandout,likebringtheparavanesin,putthemout,andsoforth.

Andwasthisachangebeingoutoftheengineroom?

Yesitwas,gaveeverybodyabreak.

Andwhat’stherelationshiplikebetweenstokersandseamen?

17:30 Undermystandardsitwasverygood.Becauseeverybodyreliedoneachother,andthatwasit,ifyoudidn’t,couldn’tdothejobproperly,wellsomebodyelsesuffered.Butwehadnotroublewiththeyweregood.

Andisthereaseparateareawherethestokershavetheirmessand…?

Ohyes,yes.Thestokers,seamenalldifferent.

Andsoisthere

18:00 muchinteractionbetweenthem?

Ohtheytryouteachotheralot.ButI’mhere,I’mtheAurorathat,stokersononesideandseamenontheother.Theyseparatedasmuchastheycould.

Andinitiallywasit,didittakesomegettingusedtointermsoflivingwithsomanyotherpeople.

NonotafterbeinginFlinders

18:30 navaldepot.Seeyouhad,oh,700,800peopleatFlindersNavalDepot.Whenyouwenttotheshipsthere’sonly,six,eight,about24stokersonthere,soyouweren’t,youwerequiteusedtoit.

Andwhereaboutswasyourmess,thestokers’mess?

19:00 Wewereontheportside.Youcameinontheafterdeckandwalkstraightthroughpasttherefrigeration,intothestokers’deck.

Andisit,wasitanoisysortof…

Yougotusedtoit.

Intermsofpeoplebeingonwatchatalldifferenttimesandcomingandgoing.

No,no,theycomeup,ifyouhadthemidnightwatchthey’dcomeupandshakeyou

19:30 atquarterto12orsoorhalfpast11,they’dshakeyou,you’dgotdressedhadyourshower,ornotshowerawashandwentdownbelow.Youneverwokeanybodyupotherthantheblokeyouweresupposedto,thatwasall.

Andwasitsometimeshardtogetallthecoaldustoff?

Wellagoodshowertookitoff.Everytimetherewas,youchanged,everytimeyougotawatchofcourseyou’dchangeover,youwerealwaysdirty.

20:00 Butno,no,notroubleatall.

Andwhatsortofthingswouldyoudowhenyouwerenotondutyandnotasleep?

Sunbake,mainlywhatweusedtodo,sunbake.Andthenthecentrehatch,thereusedtobeacentrehatch,weusedto,theyusedtowrestleand

20:30 soforthonthat.

Didyoueverwrestleandwasitacompetitionsortofsetup?

No,no,notacompetition,wehadacoupleofkeenwrestlersonboard,WeusedtobeoneblokeheusedtobetheAustralianchampionboxer,featherweightboxer,NedKellywashisname.Andsomeofususedtosparhim.

Andyoumentioningearlierthat

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21:00 youpickedupaminethatyouthoughttheJapaneseshiphad,wasthisstrangeintermsofJapannotbeing?

That’sright,that’swhatweallthought,buttheycameintothewarlateron.

But,liketheyweren’tinthewaratthisstage.

Notheyweren’tinthewar.

Didyouhaveanyideathatmaybe?

Wellitwastheonlyshipthroughthere,anditwasclearedthedaybefore,wesweptuponeday,

21:30 comeback,pickeditup,so,itwasthatoraGermanfreighter.ButIthinkitwastheJapanese,weallreckoneditwastheJapanese.

Didyoutalkaboutthatfactatthetime?

Nojustfactoflife,

AndhowlongtotaldidyouspendontheAurora?

IwentthereinOctober,Ididtwoyears,Iwentfromathirdclassstoker,secondclassstoker,firstclassstoker,

22:00 passedoutmyauxiliarywatch’scertificate.

You’rewhichcertificate?

Auxiliarywatch’scertificate,refrigeration,generators,andso,afewthings,passedoutwiththat.

Andjusttakemethroughwhatitisyouhavetodotomoveupthrough

22:30 theranksofstokers?

Well,fromathirdclassstokertosecondclassstoker,whenyouturned18youautomaticallybecomeasecondclassstoker,andthenafterninemonthsyoubecomeafirstclassstokerandthenyou,ifyouwantedtoyougoforyourAWC[AuxiliaryWatchkeepingCertificate],AuxiliaryWatch’sCertificate.Andthen,

23:00 Andwhatsortofexamdoyouundertakeorsomething?

Foryour,ohyousitdowntoawrittenexamandsoforth.

Didyouhavetodoanypreparationforthisotherthanthekindofwork?

Onlydothework,that’sall.

Wasthereany?

Ifyouwantedtostudyyoucould.ButIdidn’tIpassedwithflyingcolours.

Andwhatsortofpositiondoesthisputyouinthenwhenyouhave,

23:30 whenyou’vegotthat?

Wellyoubecomeaseniorstoker.Alltheyoungsterslookuptoyou.

Andisthereadifferenceinpayand?

Ohyes,ohyes.SeewhenIfirstjoinedthenavyIusedtogettwobobaday.AndthenIgotmadeasecondclassstoker,Iwenttothreeandfourpenceaday.AndthenwhenImade

24:00 afirstclassstoker,Iwentuptofiveshillingsaday.Ohyeahthere’sabigdifferenceandyouenjoyedit.

Andinthosetwoyearsthatyouwereontheship,howcloselywereyoufollowingwhatwasgoingoninthewar?

Wellwehada,agoodreckoningonwhatwasgoingonbecausetheykeptusuptodateallthetime,yeah.Weknewwhatwasgoingon.

24:30 Andwhendidthenewscomeorthedecisioncomethatyou’dbeleavingtheAurora?

Well,roundabout,JulyIthink.July’41Ileftit.

Didyouasktoleave?

No,no,Igottransferred,andIwastransferredtoEngland.

25:00 The,IwasonthreeweeksleavebeforethatbeforeIwentandthenwentto[HMAS]Kuttabulandthenwaitedtheshipoverseas.

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Wheredidyougoonleave?

Home,fromSydneytoBrisbane,yeah.

Andwhatwasyour,anychangesinthewayyourfamilywereor?

No,no,everybodyhadgrownupabit,that’sall.Mysisterhadgrownfortwoyears,shewas15but,no.

25:30 Whatdidyoutellthemaboutwhatyouhadbeendoing?

Ohnothingparticular,thatIwasacoalburnerstokerandthatwasit,andeverybodyknewwhatIwasdoing.

AndwasthereanyIguessanychangesthatyounoticedinBrisbanenowthatthewarhadstartedwaslifebeingaffectedin.

26:00 Nonotreally,theitwasstillthesameBrisbane.They’dstartedthearmycampoutat(UNCLEAR)Parkin,butthatwouldbeall,thatwastheonly,everythingwasthesame,petrolwasabitscarce,butIusedtogetplentypetrol,onlybecausethegaragemanIknewprettywellandhegaveittoexservices,orgaveittoservicemen.

26:30 Anddidyouwearyouruniformhomeonleave?

Ohyeahyouhadto,ohyeah.Itwasacrimetogowithoutauniformyou’dget,butIdidn’twearitallthetime,becauseIusedtoplayalotoftennis.Oneofthegirlsdowntheroad…

Andwhatwasthegeneralpublic’sreactionwhentheysawyouinuniform?

Well,

27:00 I’lltellyouafunnystory.WhilstontheAuroraIgotburntaroundtheeye.IwasintheHeidelberghospitalforafortnight.Iwasblind.AndIhadtogobacktotheship,oneofthenursestookmebacktotheshipandwhilstIwasstayingthere,someolddearsaid,“Oh,lookatthepoorsailor.”Butbeforethat,beforethewartheysaidonallthedancehalls,

27:30 ‘Dogsandsailorsnotadmitted,see,soIhadnosympathyforthem.Theywerealloveryoulikearash,Igotnosympathyforthemandthenursewhowaswithmewasthesamething.

Howhadyougottenburntaroundtheeyes?

Wellwewereboilercleaning.And,therewasasteamlineabovethemanholeofthe,andIcameout,blindedbythelight

28:00 andIswungmyheadaroundandhitthisbearsteamline.Ofcourseitgotmeacrossthere.And…

Andwholookedafteryouinitially?

OhtheytookmetotheHeidelberghospital.

Wereyouworriedthatyou’dbeblind?

Well,I,wasabitworriedbuttheytoldmeit’dbeallright,buttheybroughtdownspecialistsfromSydney.

28:30 Andshesaid,ohshesaid,“You’dbeluckyifyoudon’tgetoutwithwearingglasses.”WellIdidn’twearglassestillIwas45.SoIwasquitehappy.

Andintermsofwhatyouweresayingaboutpeople’schangingattitudestowardssailors,didyousensemuchofa,thatsortofreputationthattheyhad?

29:00 No,noInevertookanynoticeofit,thatwasit.Ohtheyhadtheiropinions,wehadoursandofcoursethesailorsdidn’tthinkmuchofthepublicanyrate.Wewereabreedofourownandweweredoingajob.

AndwhenyouheadeduptoBrisbane,onleave,weretheremany,muchtroopmovementthatyouobservedor?

Notatthattime,therewasafewonthetrain

29:30 likesoldiersandthatonthetrainbutthatwasall.Itwasn’tuntiltheJapshadcomeintothewarthattheystartedmovingthemaround,see.

AndwhatwasyourreactionaboutbeingsenttoEngland?

Ienjoyedit,Ilookedforwardtoit.

Whatwereyoubriefedyou’dbedoingthere?

Wellthesamething,Iwasgoingtooneofthemoderndestroyers.TheQuickmatch,the,wewerebased

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inEnglandwhiletheywerebuildingit,

30:00 wecouldbesenttotheRM[RoyalMajesty’s]fleet,but,wewentaplacecalledStamshore,wellfirstofallwe,wewent,leftAustralia,wenttoNewZealand,fromNewZealandwe’reheadingforjustaboutatPearlHarbourwhentheJaps[Japanese]cameintothewar.Andwewereontheold[HMS]LargsBayandweheadeddowntowardsthebottomofSouthAmerica,cameupthroughthePanamaCanal,

30:30 throughthe,upto,Halifax,thenfromHalifaxacrosstoScotland,landedatBuick,wentuptoGlasgow,wentfromGlasgowdowntoPortsmouth,andthen,outtoStamshorecamp.Welltherewereafew,Isuppose,whiteboys,

31:00 didthePOs’course,pettyofficers’courseandwewentfromthereto,fromStamshoretoPortsmouthbarracksandwedidthePOs’coursethere,andthenwewentbacktoStamshore.

Andjust,justgoingbackalittlebit,tellmeagainwhatwasthenameofthisshipthatyoufirstwenton?

LargsBay

LargsBay.

Yeah,oneoftheBayboats.

Andwhatareyourobservationsofthedifference

31:30 betweenitandtheAuroraintermsofyourwork?

What,inwhatway?

Iguessfirstofall,inthewayyouwereworkingasastokeronthisship,sorryintermsofthewayyourwork…

OhwewerepassengersontheLargsBay.Ohyeahtherewasacrewof,theQuickmatchwentoverandsomeof

32:00 [HMS]Quiberonwent,someoftheairforcewepickedupsomeairforceinHalifax,wepickedupafewairmeninAucklandandthen,wealldispersedwhenwegottoScotland.

Andwhatwasitlikebeingapassengeronashipafterhavingworkedonone?

Ohyouhadalottodo,

32:30 wehadtogotolifeboatdrills,wewereallgivenarifleanythingthatcomeclosewegottofireatthemandsoforth.Therewasnothing,ortheyhadnothingonboard,wewentfromhere,toHalifaxwithoutaescort.ThenfromHalifaxinScotlandwewentinaconvoy.Thefirstdayoutwelostaship,thedestroyer,the[HMS]Bentley.

33:00 Shewassunk,sowealllostthem.

Andwouldyouhavetodowatchesandthissortofthingaspassengers?

No,no,no.

Soapartfromthesedrills,andthingslikethathowwouldyoufilltheday?

WellIdon’tknowthat’salongwhileago,I’veforgotten.But,ohnow,uponupperdeckandwalkingaround.

Anygamesthatpeople…?

33:30 Welltheydon’tplaygames.

Any?

Idon’tthinkIdid.

Wastheremuchsortofpokerortwouporthatsortofgame?

No,no,nogambling.Strangeasitmayseem.Ohnoweplayeddeckhockeyandquoitsandallthatbutasfarasgamblingisconcerned,no.

Andwhatwastheweatherlikeasyouheadedup?

34:00 PerfectuntilwegottoleftHalifax,weweresnowboundtherefor10days.Wecouldn’tcomeoutonthebecausethesnowwasbankedupagainstthedoors,itwassohighwecouldn’topenthedoor.Andtheicewasontheship’sside,that’showcolditwas.

Andhowmuchoftheharbourwasfrozenor?

Aboutafootofthe

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34:30 harbourwasfrozentherestwasbasicallyallfree.Wewenticeskatingtheretheicewas11feetthick,that’showcolditwas.

JusttellmealittlebitmoreabouthearingaboutPearlHarbor.

Well,wedidn’t,allweheard,wewereheadingforthere,thenextminutewewereheadingsouth.That’sallweknew.ItcameoverthenewsthatPearlHarbourwas

35:00 attacked,thenwefoundoutwhywewentdownsouth.

WhatwasyourreactiontohearingwhathadhappenedatPearlHarbour?

WellIsupposedwe’dallhavelikedtohavebeeninit,butthey,theyankswere,theAmericansweredownthereso,thatwastheirkettleoffish.

Didyouthinkbacktothatminethatyou’dseenwhenyouwereontheAurora?

NoI,

35:30 justpartoftheeverydaylifeasfarasIwasconcerned.

SotellmeaboutheadingintoHalifaxthechangeintheweatherand?

Ohitchangedovernight,wecomeoutoftropicorsubtropicaltofreezing.Andwewere,that’show,insteadofordinary

36:00 blanketsandthatonthebeds,weusedouthammocksweusedthemtokeepwarm,weputthemonthebedsaswell.

Howwellequippedwereyouintermsofuniformforthis?

Weweren’tnotforthattypeofweather.Seewewerealllightuniformedoutthere,likewe,burberries,the,wellitwasthatcoldI’dgoashorewithmypyjamasunderneathmy

36:30 uniform,that’showcolditwas.No,butwhenwegotthereofcoursetheyalteredthat.SeewewereoverthereinFebruaryanditwascold.

Andwhat’sitlikeitmightseemlikeastrangequestionbutintermsofhavinglivedinAustraliaallmylife,what’sitlikeseeingsnowfallingontheoceanorouttosea?

OhIdon’tthink

37:00 Ieversawthesnow,oh,wellofthemorningwe’dwakeupandthesnowwouldbeontheshipwewouldn’tseeitfall,but,everybodyhadhadabitoffun,butthatwasit.

Wasthereanyfearabouticebergsand?

No,no,notinthosedays.We,comeupthecoastofIreland,theoutsideofIrelandandaroundbutno,no

37:30 icebergsbecausetheywerefurthernorth.

Andhowdidthedifferentgroupsofpeopleontheshipgetalong,youmentionedthereweresomeNewZealanders,andthereweresome…

Ohwegotonrealgood,theonly,thereweresome,Isupposeyou’dcallthemlikethesedayswe’dcallthemnewAustraliansbuttheywereforeignersgoingbacktotheirowncountriestohelpthewareffort.

38:00 And,whentheGermanplanescameover,ofcoursetheyusedtogetintheway,they’dgofor,standonthestairwaysoftheshipyouknow,andofcoursewe’dracethrough,andhitthemwitharifleandGodknowswhatbuttogetthemoutoftheway.Becausethey’dbeenthroughitbefore,theyknewwhatitwaslikebutwehadn’t,weusedtoraceupwithourriflesand…

38:30 Wouldyoushootattheplane?

Ohyeah,theideawastokeepthemuphigh,notthatthethreeohthreesdidanygood,butkeepthemuphigh.

WhatwasitlikeseeingthoseGermanplanescomeover?

Well,wellwedidn’thavemuchtoworryaboutbecauseofalltheescorts,theAmericandestroyers,Englishdestroyersandsoforththeywerefiringatthemsotheykeptthemupprettyhigh.

39:00 Noweweren’tworried.

AndisthereagoodrelationshipbetweentheNewZealandforcesandtheAustralianforces?

Therewasinthosedays,Isupposetherestillis,buttherewasinthosedays,it’sagood,seetheyhadthree,fourcruisersbuttheyservedoverseaswiththeAustralianforces.Everybodyknew.

We’lljustchangetapesthere.

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Tape3

00:37 Onthatjourney,whenyoucrossedtheequatorforthefirsttimedidyouhaveacelebration?

No,no.

Okay,andtellusaboutthejourneyfromHalifaxovertotheUK[UnitedKingdom].

Ohitwasn’tmuchtotellitwasjustaconvoy,

01:00 escortedbydestroyers,welostonedestroyer,but,theBelmont,thenwewentupthecoastofIrelandandthenwegotaroundIrelandandwegotintoCarelia,Scotland,yeah.

Tellusabout,becauselosingadestroyer’sprettysignificant.

Wellit,wellittookthefishforoneofus

01:30 andthatwasit.Youjustracedinandbang,thelastwesawwasthebigflashatthefinish.

Whatdidyouseeyourself?

Justaflashthatwasall,whenshegothit.

Whataboutthepeopleonboard?

Therewasn’tanybodysaved.I’vefoundthatout,inanEnglishpaperIpickedupthatpeopleoftenwantedtoknowwhathadhappenedtothe

02:00 crewoftheBelmont,sotherewasn’tanybodysaved,becauseitwasicycold,middleofwinter.

Whatwasthethingtodointhatsituationifyoufeltasubmarinecomingtoattackyouinyourconvoy?

Wehadtogetoutoftheway,buttheLargsBayandthatandthat,theywereflatoutat18knots,youcouldn’tveryeasilyescape,theonlythingyoucoulddoisrunaroundthesubbuttheykept

02:30 welloutoftheway.

Sointhatsituationwouldsomeonegobacktryingtofindsurvivors?

Ohtheywoulddo,yeah,there’dbeoneoftheescortwouldracebackandfindoutbuttheydidn’tfindanybody.

Describewhattheenvironmentwaslikethetemperature,thesea.

Oh,wellafterbeingsnowboundfortendaysitwasbelowzero.And

03:00 roughseas,andwejusthadtoputupwiththatwasall,youcouldn’tdoanythingaboutit.Nothingcouldbedoneaboutit,justploughaheadandthenthelongraidbombersfromGermanycomeoutbuttheywerekeptaway,notthefightersbuttheflyingboatskeptthemaway.

03:30 Theywerewellarmedtheflyingboats.

Howmanyshipswereinthisconvoy?

Idon’tknow,tobequitetruthful,therewasabout20,22Ithink.IknowtheonlyoneIknewofwastheLargsBay,but,buttherewasHalifaxHarbourwasprettyfullofships,sotherewasabout22intheconvoy.

Andwhatsortofaformationdoyouform?

Wellweweren’tworriedaboutthat.

04:00 The,seetheygotthecommodoreoftheconvoyandheformstheconvoy,there’dbesayonetheforwardtheleft,rightandsoforth,andtheyzigzaggedeverysooften,Idon’tknowexact,howmanydegrees,orhowmanymilestheywentonewayandzigzaggedtheotherandsoforth,that’sthewaytheywentacrosstheocean.

04:30 Howcouldtheycounterasubmarineinthissituation?

Wellitdependsontheescort,agood,orIsayagooddestroyer,anydestroyercan,whattheasdic,canseethemodern-dayAsdic,theycanpickthemupforaboutthreeorfourthousandmiles,orthreeorfourthousandyardsaway.Andchasethem.

Andsotelluswasthereanytalkaboutthisshipgoingdown?

Nobodyknewaboutit.

05:00 AllIsawwasaflashandtheyreckoneverybodywaspickedupbuttherewasnobodypickedup.

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Buttheyknewithadgonedown?

Ohyeah,theyknewbytheflash.

Sohowdidthatmakepeoplefeelonboard?

Idon’tthinkitmadeanydifferencebecausetheyallexpectedit.Justyourgoodluckthatyougotawaywithit.

Diditbringhomeanyfearorbeingsunkyourself?

No,ifyouwerescaredofbeingsunkyourself

05:30 youwouldn’thavegonetosea.Idon’tthinkanyoneIknewinthenavywasfrightenedofbeingkilled.

SotellusaboutarrivingintheUK?

WellwearrivedinGourack,bytrainuptoGlasgow,GlasgowwehoppedonthetrainthereandwenttoPortsmouth,orwenttoLondon,fromLondontoPortsmouth.

Didyouhaveanytimeoffatanyof

06:00 theseplaces?

No,ohyes.We’dgointoportandthengetofftheafternoonorsomethinglikejusttosightseeandcomebackonboard.

Andwhatwereyouseeing?

Whatdoyouseeinanafternoonoff,youjustgoforalookyoudon’tgoandlookforanybody,I’vegotsomephotosthereofPanama,butweweren’tallowedtotakephotosofPanamabecauseofthecanal

06:30 butI’vegotphotosofthePanamawhichwebroughtashore.

DidyoudevelopanyimpressionsofawartimeEngland?

Well,Ididafewtripsofthecountrylike,they’dhavea,like,afestivalorsomething,andthepeoplewoulddonatemoneyandthey’d

07:00 donatemoneyforthedestroyers,wellIwenttoacoupleofthem,placecalled,anotherblokeandIwenttoErchesterstayedwithoneofthe,wellknownpeopleinErchesterandinthatplacewasParson’sPorkPies.Andwewentthroughthefactoryhadadance.They

07:30 hadapresentationoftheflowergardenpreparationsallthis;wepresentedthetrophies.Andthecoupleoftimes,wewentback,wellwewentbackaweeklaterbecausethey,thefirsttime,theyjusthad,well,nothingparticular,therewasnothing,wejustcome,butthesecondtimewaswhenwehadallthetrophiesandsoforth.Wepresentedthetrophies.

08:00 Andthechapwascrazyaboutcricket,hewasanelderlygentlemanandallhecouldtalkaboutwasDonBradman.He’dbeentoseeDonBradmanwhenhewasovertherein’38orwhateveritwas,“Oh,Dondidthis,Dondidthat,”youknow.So,itwasaveryfull

08:30 andcomfortableweekend.Wehadatonoffunthereofcourse,weknewallthegirlsfromthevillage,theymadeittheirpersonaltasktocomeoutandseeus.AndbeingAustraliansthatwasadifferentstory.“Oh,ImetanAustraliantoday.”Wewerewelllikedoverthere.

Werethereanygirlsinparticularthatyougotonwellwith?

No,no,the,

09:00 therewasonegirl,shewasthedaughterofParsons,hewasporkpies,andwestopped,westoppedattheirplacefordinnerandtheysaid,“Oh,doyouboyslikeabeer?”“Yeah.”Sothebutlercameoutwithabottleofbeerandputitinfrontofussowedrankthat.Thatwastheirideaofhavingadrinkbeforedinner.Butohnothegirlwasverynice,but

09:30 noromanticattachmentsinanyway.

Andsotelluswhatyouweredoingin,whenyougottoPortsmouth?

WellI,asIsaidIdidthePOs’class,passedthat.

Whatdidthatinvolve?

Passingoutforapettyofficer.

Yeah,butwhatdidthecourseinvolve?

OhwellI,itinvolved,ohJesusit’salongwhile

10:00 sinceIdidit.Regulation,discipline,arithmetic,thewholelot,aboutfiveorsixsubjectswedidthenand

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wepassedout.

Howlongdidthecoursetake?

Thisonetookaboutthreeweeks,wewereflatoutfromthetimewewere,andthen,

10:30 Icamethrough,Igotabout85percentIthinkitwas,yeah85percentandIdidpassedinformechanicsclassandtheRoyalAdmiralwalkedinandcongratulatedusandGodknowswhatandhesaid,“OhIsee.”Hesays,“Youwereaboystoker?”Isaid,“No.”Isays,“There’snosuchthingasaboystokerintheAustraliannavy.”Isaid,“Iwasastokerthirdclass.”“Ohno,you’reaboystoker.”AndafterawhileheapologisedbecausehefoundoutIwasastokerthree.Iwasn’ta

11:00 boystoker.

Wastheremuchmadeofyouryouth?

No,nonotinthenavy,becausewewereallintheonebranch,theoneclass.

Didyoueverfeelyoungerthantheotherlads.

No,no,IsupposeIfeltthesameageasabloke23,24.Wewereall,

11:30 everybodyrespectseachother.

Didthenavymakeyougrowupfast?

WellIwentfromfivefootten,sixfootone.No,Ididn’tthinkIgrewupanyfasterthanInormallydid,butIwas,Iplayedfootballat12stoneeightandIadvancedto13stonefourwhenIwasplayingfootball,Iputonabitofweight.

12:00 Whatfootballcode?

RugbyLeague,RugbyUnion,AussieRules,younameit.WeplayedAussieRulesdownatFlindersNavalDepotandtheyreckonedweplayedtooroughbecauseweweren’tallowedtotacklethemsoweusedtogetthembythehipsandthrowthemandwe’dthrowthemayardandtheyreckonedweplayedtoorough.

12:30 Whoare‘we’?

Allthenavyboys,wereallRugbyLeagueplayersandRugbyUnionplayers.WeplayedMorningtonPeninsulaintheleaguedownthere.

Andhowwasyourteam?

Ohprettygood,prettygood.Wedidn’texpecttowinbutwehadourfairshareofwins.Wedidn’twinthepremiershiporanythinglikethatbutwedidallright.

Andwhatdidyouthinkofthisgame

13:00 gamecomingfromQueensland?

OhwhatdoIstillthinkofit,catchmeifyoucan.

Sodidyouresenthavingtoplaythisgame?

No,noweplayeditallforfun.That’sallwedidwasplayforthefunofit,thesameasrugbyunion,they,Iplayedunionforthenavydownthere,wewonthecompetitioncuptwoyearsinarow,

13:30 butthey’vespoiltit,kickingoutonthefull,andno,thegamehasgonetoruinnow,buttheystillplayit,theylikeitIdon’tknowwhybuttheystilllikeit.

What’smissingfromit?

Wellnowadaystheykickout,atthe25theykickoutonthefull.Neverdiditintheolddays,youusedtokicktoeithersideandthere’safewchangesbutno

14:00 Idon’tlikeit.I’dratherwatchleague.

DidyougettoplayanyofthesesportsinEngland?

NoIneverbuttheydidplaycricketthereandtheywonthecompetitionbetweenthe,butIneverplayedsportinEngland,IplayedsportontheshipIplayedalot.

14:30 Whatsportsdidyouplayontheship?

Ohhockey,that’sone,rugbyleagueisanother,boatracingisanother.Whatelse,ohcricket,swam,Ithinkthat’saboutall.

Howdoyouplayrugbyleagueonaship?

Yougoashoreandplay.WeplayedSouthAfrica.

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15:00 SorryIhadthisimageofyouonthedeck.

Sameasyouplaydeckhockey,there’snotenoughroomyougoashoreandplayit.

Sorryaboutthat.sohowlongallupwereyouinPortsmouthfor?

Wellwegottherein,FebruaryandleftthereinAugust.

That’salongtimethere.

15:30 Yeahaboutsixmonths.

SowhatwouldyoudowithyourtimeinPortsmouth?

Well,withthe,withthePOs’class,thattookuptime.Everynowandthenthe,theAustralianchiefstokerwouldsay,“OhlookDon,Iwantyoutotakeapartyouttosuchandsuchplaceforanafternoontea,”

16:00 soI’dtake30or40stokersouttoafternoon,ornotstokers,ship’scompany,outtoafternoontea,andthey’dhaveaballandthey’dgothepubandhaveafewbeerandgetbackonboard.Andthey’dallbethatfull,they’dallgotobed.

Whatotherthings?

EverySundayweusedtogotochurch.FromPortsmouthdepotyou’d

16:30 onSundaymorningeverybodywouldfallin,andmarchofftoPortsmouthCathedral,andmarchbackagain.Iwentto,ifyouwereRomanCatholic,youdidn’thavetogotothePortsmouthCathedral,butIwenttosomanychurchesthatitwasajoke,becauseIwasMethodist,IwasChurchofEngland,IwasChurchofChrist,wasname,everynowandthenwe’dfindoutwhich

17:00 wasthebestceremonyandwe’dgo,youdidn’thavetomarchwell,we’dgotothatone.Sothetimeswedidn’tgoatall,ohnoitwas…

Whatwouldhappenifyoudidn’tgoatall?

Ohyou’dgetpunished.Iftheycaughtyoutheystoppedyourleave,orcancelledwhateveritis.

Andwhatsortofgeneralchoreswouldyouhavetodo?

OhwedidnothingwhilewewereinPortsmouth

17:30 because,seeweweredoingtheclass.

AndwhatwereyounoticingaboutwartimeEnglandwereyounoticingbombingraidsor?

Ohyeahwewere,acoupleoftimeswewereinPortsmouthandtheraids,youcouldseethemgoingover,acoupleoftimesPortsmouthgotbombed.IsleofWightgotbombedwhilewewerethere.Thefirst

18:00 thousandbomberraidswentoverfromEnglandovertoGermany,thatstartedoffinthemorningataboutfouro’clockanditwasstillgoingatnineo’clockatnight.Butthatwasit,thefirstthousandbomberraid.

Describethatsceneforus,whatwereyouseeing?

Wejustlookupintheskyandtherewasplaneseverywhere.The,oh,theycamefromeveryfieldinsouthernEngland.

18:30 Andhowdidthatmakeyoufeelseeingthisgoingoff?

WellIsupposewethinkohwellthey’regettingtheirownbacknow,butotherthanthatitdidn’tworryus.

WhataboutwhenPortsmouthwasbombed,describethesceneforus.

WellwewereoutofPortsmouthaboutfive,oraboutthreekilometresoutofPortsmouth.TheIsleofWight,the

19:00 usedtobeontheIsleofWightandshegotsmackedwiththeabomb,andQuickmatchwasallright,butthey,theybombedthedocksofPortsmouthandallthataroundthere,andsomeofthebuildings,butwascoppingitmostly.

Whatwasthedamage?

12,wellweexpectedthedamageofabomb,youknowliketerrific.

19:30 WeusedtogotoPortsmouth,uptoLondon,what,abouteverytwomonths,giveusfourdaysinLondonandwewereupthereonenightandtheybombedLondonbut,theydidn’twakeusup,therewasallglassoverthebednextmorning.So,somusthavebeenprettyclosetobreakthewindowsofhostelwewerestoppingat.

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20:00 Weneverheardit.

AndwhatwasyourleavetimelikeinLondon,tellusaboutwhatyougotupto?

Wellwhenwefirstgottherewehadsevendaysleave.Because,whatdidtheycallit,overseasleaveorsomethingandsevendaysshoreleaveyoucouldgowhereveryouwantedto,theygaveusleavepassestoScotland,ornotIreland,anywhereinEngland,Scotland,

20:30 and,thatwasit,butthenagainweanotherfourdaysafteracoupleofmonthswewenttoLondon.That’swhenwe,theraidonLondonwewenttoAustraliaHouseandthat’swherewestruckupthisLadyMorton.Shereckonedtheyoungfellowsweredrinkingtoomuchsoshesentusouttothecountry.That’swhereJackieBurtsandIwentforthe,forthe

21:00 wherethefirstlotofgardenpartieswere.OutErchester,thenwhenwewentbackonleaveandtheyrequestedthatthetwosailorsthatwentouttheregobackagainforthepartiesandthat’showwegottoknowErchesterprettywell.Erchester,Wayneboroughandallthoseplaces.

Andwasitalotoffun?

Ohforusitwas,wehadalotof,fun.

21:30 That,becauseweknewwhatwascominglateron,whereyou’retakingitforgrantedthat’sall.SeeIhadadraftoftheoldVanessawhileIwasoverthere,andshedidaraidononeoftheGermanportsandtheytowedherbackintheharbour.WellIwastogoonthenexttrip,becausetheyputherindocksowelefttherebeforeshegotoutagain.SoIwaslucky.

22:00 Andhowwasyourmateshipgoingwiththeotherblokes?

Good.Good,theQuickmatchwasaveryhappyship,shewashappy.Ofcourseitwasmoreorlessapitcrew,anybodywhomisbehavedwassenttothe(UNCLEAR).AndtherestwereleftontheQuickmatch.Theyhadagoodslipper,theRodneyRhodes,hemadecommodorelateron,withBillDavisasfirstlieutenant.

22:30 Hemadeit,rearadmiralwithPeterGladstone,who’scommonlyknownasPaddles.HemaderearadmiralandIlosttouchwiththeothers.Idon’tknowwhathappenedtotheothers.Iknowtherewasthree.

Pauseitforasec.WereyounoticinganythinginEngland,liketherationing,or?

23:00 Wellnosee,thenavyweren’trationed,wewerebasedinthedepotandofcoursewegottherationsnotroubleatall,buttherationingwasprettysevereotherwise,forciviliansandallthat,buttheserviceswewerewelllookedafter.

Whataboutwhenyouwentonleave?

Ohweweregivenrationsthenbutwewere,plentyofrations,noworriesaboutthat.

Andwhataboutnightlifeandthissortofthingonleave?

23:30 Couldyougetoutsomewhere?

OhIdidn’tbother,notthenbutwhenwewenttoLondonandplaceslikethat,yeahwegotout.TheOldMightPub,oneofthepubs.ItwasownbyanAustralianbythenameofMarsh.We,alwaysusedtodrink,youcongregatethere.so,weevenhadVeraLynnandshecamethereonenight.

24:00 Anotherwell-knownsingercamethereonenightandhadabitofado.Theywerequitegoodcompany,yeah.

Andwouldyouhookupwithotherservicemen?

No,westuck,ofcoursemainlyallfromStamfordweallstucktogether.Fiveorsixwouldgotogetherthatwasit.

Andwouldyoumeetanylocals,anygirlsatthese?

No,no.Notinterested

24:30 ingirlsinthosedays.

AndwereyouhearinganypropagandalikeLordHawHaworanythingofthis.

OhIheardabitbutno,nobodytookanynoticeofhim.Hewasjustajokeasfaraswewereconcerned.

Sotellus,whatyouthoughtoftheQuickmatchwhenyoufirstsawher?

Brandnew.

25:00 LikeditfromthetimeIsawit.Weallwentonboard,thewholesixthcompanywentontogether.

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Describethatsceneofthatfirsttimeyousawit.Whatdidshelooklike?

Wellshewaslyingalongside.Andtheminutewehitthedecktherewasrazzledazzleeverywhere,hammocks,kitbagsasifeverythinggoingonboard,

25:30 soitallsettleddownonmostdecksandinnotimeshewasgood,wedidourtrialsoftheEnglishChannel,underescortofthefighter,orfighters.AndcamebackintoPortsmouthdidthat.

Whatdoyoudoinatrial?

Oh,testeverything.Tookheruptospeed,seeifeverythingworkedallrightandthenwe,

26:00 whentheskipperwassatisfiedorthenavywassatisfieditwasallright,theyhandbacktothedockyardandthedockyardgaveittotheship,totheskipper.

Describewhattheshiplookslike,whatdoesitlooklike?

Whatdoesanydestroyerlooklike?

Paintapictureofthisparticularoneformefromyourview.

Well,shewasalong

26:30 214kilometres,214feetlong.Fourinchgunsforeandaft,torpedotubes,eight.Intothemessdecks,therefrigerationwasbelowthestokersdeck.Andshewas,thatwas,becauseeverybodytooktheirownpositionsthen.Wewentonboard,

27:00 thepresentchiefstokerssaid,“Right,soyou’repartoftheship.”Had,wentactionstations.Youhadactionstationsindamagecontrolandallthat.itwasjustonebighappyfamilyandeverything,everybodyknewwhattheyhadtodo.

Howbigwasthecrew?

Wellwestartedwith240,

27:30 butitgotto269astheygotadvancedonit.

Anddidyouknowallthesemen?

Iknewalotofthem.Ididn’tknowallofthem.IknewallthestokersbecauseIwastheleadingstoker,oneofthemess,andcaterer,ofcourseyougottoknowthecookprettywellandthebaker,youhadtoknowthem.

28:00 Yougetallthetidbitsfromthatandsupplystewards,andnotheywere,quitegoodblokesyeah.

Andyouwerementioningitbeforebutthephonerang,buttellusabouttheofficersonboard?

WellRodneyRhodes,hewaslieutenantcommanderinthosedays.Verywellliked,he’dspeaktoanybody,hewasoneofthosechapsthatwhenhehadhiscaponhewasnavy,

28:30 tookhiscapoffhewasoneoftheboys.SameasBillDavis,IusedtoplaycricketwithBillDavisandfootball.Hewas,prettygood,ohIsaypretty,hewasgood.AndPattisGladstone,weusedtocallhimPattis,reckonhe’dtripoveramatch.He’dsaydon’tthrowyourmatchesondeckbecauseI’llwalkalongandfalloverthem.But,hewas,

29:00 theyweren’t,usedtoplayhockeywiththem.Andno,they,theboyswoulddoanythingforthemputitthatway.

Howdoofficerswinovertherespectofacrew?

WellIthinktheyhad,thecrewhadmorerespectforanofficerinthosedaysthanwhattheyhavetoday.WellI,becauseit’snotmetosaybutIdon’tagreewiththetraining

29:30 theydotoday,andthere’sone,rearadmiralsaidtome,hesaid,“OhQueenslandusedtobeagoodrecruitingbase.”Hesaid,“It’snotanymore,mainlythefactitinmydayyouusedtotrainthebloketodothejob,now,thehighereducationtheythinktheyknowitallbeforetheygoin,andtheycan’tlearntheproblem.”Andhesaid,“Ohwe’llgobacktotheold,oldstyle,”but,

30:00 Idon’tknow,apparentlynot.

Sohowexactlydoescommandingofficerswinoverthatrespectwithallthe?

Treateverybodyfairandthat’stheonlywaytodoit.Ifyoumakeabloomer,hedoesn’tgooffthetopend.He,explainsitandsoforthand

30:30 Youmighthavetopunishthembutnotverysevere.Seenowadaystheypunish,theyfinethemandGodknowswhat,Idon’tknowwhattheydo.

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Whatkindofpunishmentcouldyoureceive?

Ohstoppageofleave.Butno,noneofthisdockingofpayoranythinglikethat.Welldrawtherifleandsay..

31:00 Sohowisthecrewstructured,whatwastheshipmadeupof?

Wellyouhad,yourofficers,andchiefsandPOs,seamenandyourstokers.Thatwasthewholelot.

Soafteryourtesting,whatwasyourfirstjourney?

Wewentto,Buick,wedida

31:30 boilercleaninBuick,andfromthenon,wehadacoupleofdaysleave,ornoleavebutnightleaveandthenwentup,workuptheScapaFlowwiththehomefleet.Ohfewbattles,Isayafewbattleshipsupthere,destroyers,cruisers,thenwedidafewbits

32:00 ofconvoywork,outtowardsRussia,but,didn’tgofar.

Describethatconvoyworkforus.Thatveryfirstkindofconvoy.

WelltheyweretakingsuppliestoRussian,andtheyeventhoughtheyhadaconvoytheyhadescortthemselvesthehomefleetwentoutwiththemandescortedthemupforsofarandthenwecamebackagaintomakesuretheywereoutofharmsway,outorourway,butthenofcourse

32:30 theotherRussiansandtherestoftheBritishtookover,andwecamebacktoScapaFlow,weworkeduptoScapaFlowforafortnightorthreeweeks.BacktoGlasgow,backdowntoPortsmouth,thenfromPortsmouthwewentto

33:00 Africa,NorthAfrica.

HowfarwouldyoutaketheRussianships?

Ohnotveryfar,coupleofhundredmiles.

Andwherewouldtheyhavetotravel,togettoRussia?

Upthetopend?IwasuptheAtlantic,nottheAtlanticthewhat’sthename,theCoral,nottheCoralSea,the,

Arctic?

Arctic,yeah,ArcticOcean.

Sothey’dbegoing?

Uparoundthatway.

33:30 Throughtheice?

Wellwenevergotasfarasice,itcouldhavedoneIdon’tknowIdoubtitbut,ohnowedidallrightthen.

Andtalkusthroughyourroleonthisship?

Iwasinthegearroom.

Describeitforus.

Ohjustgodownthegearroomandsittherefor,

34:00 acoupleofhours,orfourhours,getrelievedandcomebackandgotobedand.

Whatdidthegearroomlooklike?

Wellitwas,widerthan,itwaswiderthanthishouse,butallitconsistsofisasetofgearsandtheshaftsgoingoutthepropellers.

Andwhatwouldyouhavetowatchfor?

Ohyouhadtopurifytheoilandeverythinglikethatandcarrythereserveoilinthe,lubricatingoilinthetanks.

34:30 Butasitlubricatedandcleanstheoileverycoupleofminutes,everycoupleofhours.Noyeah,wasbusyallthetime.

Howmanymenwereonashiftinthere?

One.Usedto,threeleadingstokersshiftabout,fouronandeightoff.Thatwasthegearingstaff,thesameintheengineroom,fouroneightoff,theywere

Page 24: Australians at War Film Archive

35:00 threethere,intheboilerroomstherewasthreethere,threeintheafterboilerroom.

Wastherealotofresponsibilitybeingonyourowninthere?

Yestherewas,youhadto,wellyou,youcantellwhenyou’recleansingtheoilthatwasall.Cleantheequipment,

35:30 makesureitwasallright,noleakage.But,we’reveryboring,byyourself.

Howwouldyouoccupyyourtime?

Well,youtryto,youdon’tdefineyourtimebyworking.Soyoumighthavefiveminutesoneveryhourbutyoucouldn’tleavethegearroom.

Whatwouldyouthinkaboutinyourheadasyouworked?

36:00 Youneverhadachancetothinkyouweregoingallthetime.The,there’swhenyoucomeoffwatchyou’rejustrelaxedandthatwasit.

Andthiswasanothercoalfired?

Nooilfired,itwasquick,actuallyitwasoneofthemoderndestroyers.

Tellushowitwaspowered.Andhowitworked.

Withturbines

36:30 with33thousandhorsepowerineachturbine.Fivebytwoboilersandtheycoulddo54knots.Eightsprayers,twobigfanstoplaywiththeboilers.That’saboutall.Ofcoursetheyhadthedieselgeneratorsintheboilerrooms

37:00 soitwastosupplytheauxiliarypowertotheshipelectricpowertotheship,alltheotherpowerscarriedintheengineroom.

Soyouhadtolearnalotofnewskills?

Yes.

Andwherehadyoulearntthem?

Onboard,youhadtodoitasapart.OhwedidabitasaPOs’coursebutnotenough.Notasmuchaswe’dhavelikedtolearned

37:30 becausewewereonaship.

Andhowquicklydidyouhavetogetontopofthings?

Onnotvery,wellittookno,notimeatallbeforewewerewithityeah.Becauseitwasallfamiliarbutyoujusthadtofamiliariseyourselfwiththe,withyourbitsandpieces.

Didyouhavetolearnextrafastbecauseofthewarsituation?

NoIjustcamenaturally.

38:00 It’slikelearninghowtowalkoutthedoorthere,yougottogothatway.

Andhowdidyoufeelbeingonabrandnewship?

Exhilarated,ohyeahbrilliant,comefroma1905coalburnertoa1942moderndestroyer.Doyouknowtheybuiltthem,they.

38:30 WellIsuppose,theyreckontheirlifewasonlysixmonths,duringthewar.But,theideawasweprotectit,therewasalotofdestroyerssunkduringthewar.SeewehadtheMclass,theywerebeforetheQclass,the[HMAS]Napierwas

39:00 oneofthemanditwassunk.The[HMAS]Nizam,thePaul,Ican’tthinkoftheothertwo.Buttheygotthroughright,theycamebackintoAustralia.

Didblokeseverytalkaboutothershipsbeingsunk?

No,no,seeIgoawaywiththe[HMAS]Canberra,[HMAS]Shropshire,welltheCanberrawassunk

39:30 upintheCoralsea.Butalltheoldsailorswhoarestillleft,becausewewereallgetting,we’reallgettingbloodyold.Theydon’ttalkaboutit.

Changetapesagain.

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Tape4

00:37 SotellmeaboutwhatthequartersandthatwerelikeontheQuickmatch.

Welltherewasone,two,three,fourmess,fourtables,andthatwasthesleepingquartersandthe

01:00 eatingquarters.Ofcoursethehammock,theystillhadhammockbargesandtheysleepoverthetopofthetables.But,differenttodaybecausethey’veallgotbloodybunks.Butnoit’s,ohnotit’sagoodlife,it’sa,hammocksareverycomfortabletosleepinthewaywehadthemandnobodyever,Ieverknewgotsickinahammock

01:30 becausetheyusedtoswingwiththeship.

Andwhendidyoupackupyourhammocks?

Inthemorning,lashupyourhammock.Takeitdownandstowitinthehammockbinandthenyou’dsetforbreakfast,orwhateveritwasyeah.

Whatifyou’dbeenawatchorona?

Makesnodifference.Watch,youhadtobeupbyquartertoseven.

Sowhendidyousleepifyou’dbeenworkingduringthenight?

02:00 Anywhere.Butusuallyyougot,ohaboutsixhourssleepduringthe,ifyouhadmiddlewatch,you’dhavegotobedassoonas,assoonasaftertea,you’dhaveafourhoursleepbeforeyouwentonwatchandtwohours,orthreehoursafterwards.

Andhowaccustomeddidyoubecometothatbrokenupsleep?

Itwaseasy.

02:30 easy.Ididitafter,orwellI’llcometothatlater.IdiditafterwardstheyearIleftthenavy,Iworkedshiftwork.

And,whatwasthebestsortofwatchtogeton,whatwastheonepeoplemostwanted,wasitthemiddlewatchor?

Well,whatwecalledthefirst,

03:00 itwaseighttill12,gettobedabouthalfpast12andsleepthroughtillquartertoseven.Butyouhadthemorningwatch,you’dhavewhatfourtilleight,yougotobedthen,getupatfouro’clockthenextmorning.Soyouallgottoleaveforlunch,formeals,andthatwastheonlytime

03:30 yourmealswereinterrupted,wasteatime.

Andyoumentionedthatyoumighttryandsleepanywheresayifyouworkedduringthenightorsomething,werethereplacesyouweren’tallowedto,Imeandidpeoplesleeponthedecksand?

Ohyeah,they’llsleeponthehammocks,hammockbinanywhere,wherevertheyliked,aslongastheydidn’tgetinanybody’sway.But,mess’hadtobecleanedallthetime,

04:00 likeyou’dfinishbreakfastandthemesscookwouldsay,“Let’scleanup.”Andsomeonewouldsitonthestoolandgotosleepbutnottoomany,butnottoomany,becausethey’dgetsufficientsleepduringthenight.Whenyoucameintoportyoudidn’tsleepyoujustwentashoreandplayedup.

Isiteasytogetinpeople’swayonaship?

Wellsomepeopledo,butninetimesoutoftenpeoplekeepoutofeachother’sway.

04:30 NotroubleIdon’tthinktherewasanybigtrouble.WellIneverhadanyputitthatway.

Arethereanypeoplesayonyourmessdeckwhohadreallyannoyinghabits?

Theyweren’ttolerated,ifablokewas,well

05:00 putitthisway,Iwasonashipthat,anybodycaughtstealing,theskippersaidIonlywanttorecognisehimwhenhecomestothetable,becausetheydidn’tsteal,becausethey’dgetbashedupbythebloodycrew.

Howabouthabitslikesnoringor?

Ohwell,that’severywhere,butusuallyIdon’tknowthatI’veeverheardanyonesnoreinahammock.

05:30 Becauseninetimesoutoften,hammockisdroopedthatwayyourheadisaboveyourfeet.Idon’tknowofanybodywhosnores,orIneverheardanybody.

Howaboutothersortsofhabits,liketalkinginyoursleeporanythinglikethat?

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Ohitprobablywenton,butthey’dsoonshutthemup.

06:00 Ohno,no,I,neverheardanybody,andeverybodyIknewgotagoodnight’ssleep.

Andwhatifyoudidhaveadisputewithsomeoneevenifitwasabitminor,whatwasthenormalwayyou’ddealwithabitoftension.?

WellIdon’tknow,Ineverhadanydisputeswithanybody.Isupposetheycouldhave,althoughIneversawafistfightonboard.Isupposetheydocarryon,but,

06:30 no,Ineverheardanydisputes,probablytheywenton,butIdidn’tseethem.

Andyoumentionedthatafteryou’dbeenescortingsomeoftheRussianshipsthatyouheadedtowardsNorthAfrica.Whatdidyouknowaboutwhatwasgoingonthereatthetime?

Wellnothing,becauseweescortedthe,NorthAfrica,theconvoydowntoNorthAfricatoinvadeAfrica,NorthAfrica.

Andwhat’sitlike

07:00 travellingwithaconvoy?

Veryslow.Youcanonlygoasfastastheslowestship,that’sit.

What’sthelevelofIguess,isthereanycamaraderieamongstshipstravellingtogether?

Well,everybodylooksaftereachother,they’vegottoactually,but,wellofcoursethey,theNorthAfricawassomeofthebiggerships,

07:30 like[HMS]Orcadesandallthat,theyallwentdownbecause,wehadagoodescort,andtheywerewelllookedafter,theywentintoAlgiers,Iranthatway.

AndhowbadintermsofbeingIguessbeingpartofthisbiginternationalforce,whatwasthatfeelinglike?

Oh,Isuppose,ohwell,weknewwehadajobtodo,everybodyelsehasgotajobtodoandtheyjustdoit.

08:00 Andasfarascamaraderie-shipaswell,they’redoingtheirjobandwe’redoingoursandeveryoneelseisinthesamespot.

AndwhowereyouontheQuickmatchwhowereyouattachedtoinasense,wereyoustillansweringtothe,youwerestilloperatinginNorthAfricaandinEurope?

WewereattachedtotheRN,theRoyalNavy

08:30 untilIleftGibraltar.WewereonourownafterweleftGibraltar,wentaroundthecapeandcametheFarEasternFleet.,cameunderthecommandoftheFarEasternFleet.

AndwasthereanydifferencesyounoticedbeingunderthecommandoftheRN?

No.Leftusentirelyalone,wemadeourown

09:00 decisionsbutwestillhadtoobeytheirorders.

AndsotellmeaboutwheretheconvoyfirstarrivedinfortheinvasionofNorthAfrica.

WellAlgiersandIran,atthesametime,hitthembothatthesametime.

Andwherewasyourship?

Justoutsideofthelineoffire.Seethey,thebigshipswentinwithallthetroopsonboardandalltheescortstoppedoutside.

09:30 Andyouwerearoundit,Algiers?Andwhatdoesitlooklike?

Ohwedidn’tgoin.I’vegotphotosthereofshipsthatwerehitwhilewewerethereandtheportsandsoforth,buttheyalllandedthereandwentonfromthereon.

Andintermsofyourspecificjob,isthereanysortofchangewhenyou’reinasituationwhereyoumightgo

10:00 tobattlestationsandthatsortofthing?

Wellitalldepends,seeifyou’reonwatch,youstoponwatch,butifyougoonactivestationsandyou’renotonwatch,you’vegotanotherpartoftheshiptolookafter.

Andwhatwasyouractionstation?

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Oh,fireparty,anythinglikethat.

Whatdidthefirepartydo?

Welliftherewasafireonboard,ifwegothit,wellthey,youwenttoputitout.Thesameasanordinaryfirebrigade.

10:30 Andwhenyouwere,whentheshipswentinforinvasionandyouwereontheoutside,wereyouatactionstations?

Allthetime,wewereatactionstations,fourorfivehours,stoppedformealsandthen,halfwouldgotomeals,halfwouldstoponactionstations,andthen,whenyougoonwatch,youwentdownbelow,

11:00 didyourwatchandthenthecrewdownbelowcameupandtookyourplace.

Andwasthereadifferencewhenyouwentonwatchisthereadifferenceontheworkyoudidseeingastheshipwasonactionstations,intermsoftheenginesandboilerswasthereacertain?

Ifyou’rean,ifyou’reonwatch,youdoingdownthegeneraljob,ifyou’reatactionstations,ifyou’refireparty,wellyouwentasfirepartyandsoforth.

11:30 Seemostthestokers,theyweredamagecontrol,anydamagetotheship,theyracedtoshoreitup.Theseewhere,asfarasgunnerywasconcerned,theylookedaftertheguns,andthenavigationoftheshipbuttheseareNbranchlookedafterthesafetyoftheship.

Andinthatfirstinvasion,

12:00 whatwasthesituationdidyoucomeunderfire,wasthereany?

Nowedidn’t,afewoftheJerries[Germans]comeoverthereforusbuttheywereshotdown,butIdon’tthinktherewereanydestroyersoranythinghitwhentheycameover.Allthedestroyersthatwentdownwereintheeasternsideoftheleathertrain.

Andhowlongdidyouspend

12:30 thereonactionstations?

Onactionstations,onandoffforaboutafortnightandthenoneoftheaircraftcarriers,Ithinkitwasthe[HMS]Illustrious,shewashitontheleftwell,therings,itplanedupanddown,wellshecouldn’tspringherplanesowehadtotakehertoAmerica,therewasfourofus,threedestroyerstoohertoAmerica.Quiberon,RacecourseandRedoubt.WeleftGibraltar

13:00 andtookitovertoNorfolkinAmerica.

Andjustonthosetwoweeksontheinvasion,wereyoustationaryinonepositionorwereyou?

Ohno,no.

Wherewereyoumoving?

Anywhere,youhadasetplanwellIwouldn’tknowwhattheplanwasbuttheskippershadthewhereatAandBandsoforthatagiventime.

Wasthereanychancetogoashoreat?

No,notatAlgiersorIranno.

13:30 WegotashoreinGibraltar.

Beforeyoutook,youescortedtheAmerican…?

Yeah,Itookitovertothe[United]States.

AndwhatwasGibraltarlike?

Militarytown,militarythat’sallitwasitwasjustmilitary.Evensothen,butitwasdifferentbeforethewarbutitwasallmilitary.

Andhowaboutintermsofthe,environment,didyougettosee?

14:00 OhIwentandhadalookat,itlookedoverthebordertoSpain.That’saboutall.Lookingatthesoil,someoftheapesontherocksbut,noitwas,justanotherportasfaraswewereconcerned.

Andwhatwouldyoudowhenyougotshoreleave?

Racetothenearestpub.Allsailorsdid.

AndwhatwerethepubslikeinGibraltar?

Oh,well

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14:30 notanywherelikethepubshere,ohno,no,andofcourseinthosedays,therewasabeershortageon,youdrankwhattheygaveyou.

Whatdidtheygiveyou?

OhIdon’tknow,it,Ineverusedtodrinkitmuchinthosedays.

Andhowaboutintermsoftherebeing,IguesssomanymilitarycominginandoutofGibraltar,weretheresortofbargirlsandthissortofthingIthepubs.

OhwellnotsomuchgirlsIsupposetherewasIdidn’tseeany.

15:00 The,matteroffactIdidn’tseemanybargirlsatall,theywereallmen.Andno,theyweretoughtooandtheyhadtobetoughtocopewiththemilitary.

AndhowlongdidyougettospendatGibraltar?

Notlong,aboutfivehours.WepickeduptheIllustrious

15:30 andwent.

AndhadyouseenwhathadhappenedtothisAmericanship?

No,Englishship,theIllustrious,anaircraftcarrier.

ButyouweretakingittoAmerica?

WeweretakingittoAmericatohaveitrepaired.

Hadyouseenthedamagewhenithadhappened?

No.Butthey,Icantellyouthis,itwasone,weleftatitwasthreedestroyers,Racehorse,Redoubt,

16:00 andQuickmatchandweneversaweachother,ortheaircraftcarrierforthreedays.

Whywasthat?

Itwasthatrough,oneoftheroughestseasintheBayofBiscayinhistory.He,

Canyoudescribewhatit’sliketobeontheseathatrough?

Upanddown,upanddown,that’sallyoucando.Wesplitourfo’c’sleopen,thewaterpoundingonthe

16:30 ontheshipshavegotabreakwateranditkeptonhittingagainstthebreakwateranditsplitthewellopen.Andthey,ofcoursetheseamen’smessdeckswerefloodedout.Theaircraftcarrierhadsixfighterplanesstrappedtotheupperdeckandtheylostthelot.Ithinkit,twodays,noadaybeforewegottoAmericaisthefirsttimewesawthe

17:00 Illustrious,butweknewwhereweweretheywereincontacteveryminuteoftheday.

Howdidyourepairthefo’c’sle?Didyouhavetodoitunderwayor…?

Ohno,notheydiditinAmerica.

Andsowheredidtheseamensleepwhentheirmessdeckswereflooded?

Anywheretheycould.The,forChristmasdinnerwehadboiledspudsandtheywere,

17:30 theywerecookedona,wecouldn’tputanythingonthegalleybecauseeverythingweputonthegalleydisappearedlikefloatoff.Sowewentdowntoboilerroomsandcookedspudsdownthereonthedrainsofpumps.

Howdidyoudothat?

Wellallpumpshavegotdrains,to,we’dopenupadrainandletthesteamflowintothe,thewater,boilthewaterthatway.That’showwehadChristmasdinner.

18:00 WasitagoodChristmasdinner?

Ohyeah,verygoodyeah.

Whentheseaisthatrough,howdoyouevensitdowntoeator?

Youdon’t,youeatthebestyoucan.

Howdoyoukeep?

What,yourbalance?It’seasy,youspreadyourlegswideandyouswayonyourfeet.

Andyoudidn’tgetsick?

NoIneverbeensickinmylife,

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18:30 notseasick.

Howaboutothersduringthat?

Wellwehadoneblokenevercameupfromtheboilerroomfromthetimewehitthe,tillwegottoNorfolk,hewasfourdaysthere.Therewasquitealotofsickness,that’swhytheycouldn’teat.

Wasthereadangeraboutlosinganyoneinsuchroughconditions?

No,notheyrun

19:00 aline,fiveandahalf,ifyouwentoutontheupperdeckyouhungontotheline.

Didyouhavetogoupontheupperdeck?

Onlywhenwego,whenwegodownawatch,thenyou’reverycareful.

Andwhatdoesaseathatroughlooklike?

Wellwehad15feetup,15feetdown,it’slikethatallthetime.

Isthatimpressivethe?

Ohitis.Ifyou’reonlylookingatit,yeah.

19:30 Andwithwavethatbig,aretheybreakingoraretheyswellor?

Nothebreakontop,notverybigwaves,notlikethesurfbuttheybreakontop.

Andwhathadcausedtheweathertobethatrough,wastherea?

Welltheweatherwellthatwasit,thewindandsoforth.

Sotherehadn’tbeensomesortofatyphoon?

Ohno,no.TheBayofBiscayisnotoriousforroughweather,

20:00 butwehadtheroughestthey’dhadforatleast45years.

Andyoumentionedthateventhoughyoudidn’tseetheotherships,youwereincommunication.How?

Byradio.Therewasnolisteningonthephoneinthoseday,itwasbyradio.

Andhowmany,youspendthreedaysgoingthroughthissortof,couldyousleep?

WellIthinkwedid,notrouble.

20:30 Yougoonwatch,comebackandcrawlintoyourcot,wenevertookourhammockwenevertookourhammocksdown,wejustleftthemupthere.

Whatdidn’tyoutakethemdown?

Whatwasthegood,becauseyou’dbeflatouttryingtohangthemupagain.

Soisthereacertain,doessomeonesayrightwellyoudon’thavetobringyourhammocksdownnow?

Wellyeah,thatwasupatthemessdecksthatdidthat,leaveyourhammockonthemessdeck.

Anddidanyofthepoorseamenwhodidn’thaveamessdecktosleepon,comedownand

21:00 andshareyours?

Notheywent,there’s,thetwomessdecksthatwereeffectedtheothertwoweren’tsotheysleptdownthere.

Andwhat’sNorfolklikeasa?

Wellit’sanavalport.Very,wellofcoursewhenweweretherewerealotofYankee[American]shipsarethere.Verybusy,it’dbealotbusiernowbitofwasverybusyandthey,

21:30 theYankeerearadmiralcomealongandsawthedamagedonetousandwehadtwohourssoit,repairingitandsoon.Wespenttwodaysthere,andwecomebacktheotherway,broughtbackourtankers.

AnddidyougetshoreleaveatNorfolk?

Ohyeah,theygavethemleave.

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Wheredidyougoto?

Ohwherecouldyougoto.ItwasNorfolk,Virginia,thatwasallitwas.Norfolkwasanavytown.

22:00 WastheremuchtalkofthesituationinthepacificgiventhatyouwereinAmerica?

WeneversawanybodybecausewewerebasedontheAtlanticside.Theothersidewouldbe,wouldtalkaboutit,notontheAtlanticside.

Andwhatwasyourgeneralimpressionofthe

22:30 Americansassailors,asnavy?

Well,there’sclassdistinctions,whitesandblacks,blacksweren’ttowalkonthesamesideofthestreetsasthewhites.Andthatwasin1942,butthenofcourseit’simprovedsincethen.

Andwereyoushockedbythis?

Wellnotreally,butwe,

23:00 openedouteyesabit.

Andhowlongdidyou,wouldyougettospendatatimeat,onshoreatVirginia?

Ohno,you’dshoreleavefromfouro’clockonwards,tilleighto’clockthenextmorning.

Tilleighto’clockthenextmorning?

Iftheywantedityeah.

Soyoucouldstaythenight?

Ifyouwantedtoyeah.

Andwhere,yousaidthere’snotmuchtheresowherewouldyougo?

Idon’tknowwhere,Ijustgoashoreandhaveacoupleofbeers,

23:30 didn’tliketheirbeereitherbuthaveacoupleofbeersandcomebackonboard.

WereyouinterestedinseeingAmericatheway?

Wellnotduringthewartime,becausetherewasn’tanythingtosee,likeeverythingwasallthepeoplewereworkingwithdockyardsandsoforth,buttherewasn’tanythingtorushus

24:00 outsideofthenavaldockyards.

Andwhenyouheadedbackyou’reescorting?

Tankers.

Wasitthesamethreedestroyers?

Samethreedestroyers,wecrossedtheequator15timesbecausewezigzaggedacrosstheequator,15timeswecameacrosstheequator.

Isthatsomekindofarecordinone?

Idon’tknowbit,we

24:30 boughtitweboughtthetankersovertoNorthAfricaandthen.

Isthatatypicalwaytotravelinaconvoy?

Ohyeahzigzag,yeah,sothesubmarinesdon’tgetalineonyou,ifyou’regoingthatway,theylineupandtheresoyouswingtowardsthem.

Didyoueverhaveanyscares?

Oh,coupleoftimesIwasdownintheboilerroom,ifthefishweren’talongsidetheship,youcouldhearthem.

25:00 The,what?

Thetorpedoes.

Youcouldhearthetorpedoes?

Yeah,wentalongsidetheship.

Whatwasthatsoundlike?

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Nothingonearth,justcompressedair,you’llhearthetorpedopropellersandcompressedair.

Isthatnotalittlescary?

Wellyoudon’thavetime.Youthink,“Jeez,whatinthehell’sthat?”andthen

25:30 yousay,“Whatwasthat?”“Oh,”theysay,“thatwasatorpedo.It’sjustaheadofusnow.”SoIhadacoupleoftimeslikethat.

Andatmomentslikethatisthereeverafeelingof,claustrophobiaorsomethingbeingdowninthe?

No.No,wasn’tworriedaboutit.Nobodyworriedaboutit,it’sjustanactofwar.

Didyoueverhaveasortof

26:00 planinyourheadiftheshipgothitor?

No,Ihadmylifebelt,andyouworethatallthetime,butthenweweredownbelow,andifwewereunfortunatelyhitdownbelowyoueithergotoutoryoudidn’t.

Andyoudidn’tthinkaboutthat?

No,notonelittlebit.TheremayhavebeensomebutnotnearlyalltheblokesIknew,

26:30 theyhadajobtodoandtheydidit.

Wasthereapartoftheeverydaywatchtodoasubmarinewatch?

Ohyestheyhadasdicandallthat,theylookedafteritallthetime,wedidn’t.Theseaman,theyofcoursethere’sanasdicbranch,Idon’tknowwhattheycallthemnow,butthey’reonthemachineallthetime.

Andifsomeone,sayiftheasdicgetsaping

27:00 orsomethingthatthere’sasubmarineinthearea,howdoesthiseffectyourjobasstokers,whatchanges?

Itdoesn’teffectusatall,itallcomesfromupinthebridge.Theysend,iftheskippersnotonthebridge,thecaptainofthebridgecomes,ohyeahsoandso,somanyyardsahead,right,we’llchasehim.

Andsowhentheysaychasehim,whatdoesthatindicatethatthestokersaregoingtohavetodo?

Wellstillstopdownbelowbutincreasespeedandsoforth.

27:30 Engineroomdoesitandallthestokerdoesisincreasethesteam.

Andwereyouinthegearroomstillatthis?

Notthattime.

Wherewereyoubased?

Aroundnumbertwoboilerroom.

Andsowhenthey,theengineroomsneedstospeedupandyouneedtogivethemmoresteam,canyoutakemethroughtheprocessofhowyoudothat?

Welltheyringfromthebridge,

28:00 fullspeedahead,right,soweopenupthethrottles.Increasethesteampressureofthe,totheturbines,theboilersfindtheirpressures,onsprayersandtheykeepupthepressure,seapressureallthetime.

Andisthereonepersoninchargemonitoringitallthetimetomakesurethateverythingdowninthe?

NothePO’sinchargeoftheboilerroom,

28:30 oneineachboilerroom,theERA’s[EngineRoomArtificer]inchargeoftheengineroom,andtheyobeytheskipper,obeythetelegraph.

AndwereyouaPOintheboilerroom?

NotonQuickmatch.

Right.

IwasleadinghandontheQuickmatch,butnotontheQuickmatchIdidn’tgetmadeaPOuntil1945.Endofthe

29:00 ohnottheendofthewar,March1944.

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Andwhatkindofatankerwasitthatyouwereescorting?

Oiltankeroneofthese,ohIdon’tknowwhatthesizeofitwas,buttherewere,one,Ithinktherewasfourtankers,

Andwheredidyouescortitto?

OvertotheMediterraneanandthenIwentintoAlgiers,

29:30 andweleftitthere.

AnddidyougettostopinAlgiersatall.

No,nobodywentashoreinAlgiersexceptthearmy.

Wasthefightingstilltakingplace?

Ohyes,yesintheNorthAfricandesert.

Andwheredidyouheadafteryoudroppedthetankersoff?

Down,SouthAfrica.WewentSierraLeone,

30:00 stoppedashorethere.

WhatwasSierraLeonelike?

Oh,what’sallthesedarktownslike,notmuch.Inthosedaysitwasitwaslikeandthe,practicallynothingtherethen.

HowaboutintermsoftheBritishpresence,wastheremuchofacolonial?

Therewas,therewasarmythere,thatwasall,the,

30:30 thenavyusedtodropinoccasionallyandseethem.Butwejuststoppedthereawhileandheadeddowntowardsthecape.

AndwhatsortofIguessinfrastructurewassetupinSierraLeoneintermsof,didyougetshoreleave,couldyougoand?

Theonlyplacewewenttowasthebeach,everybodywenttothebeachandhadaswimandcomebackonboard?

Wereyouagoodswimmer?

Iwas.Iswamforthenavy.

In?

31:00 UpinNewGuineaIswamforthenavy.

Weretheremanypeopleinthenavywhocouldn’tswim?

Everybodyhadtoswim,passaswimmingtest.AndwhenIwasinFlinders,everybodybarmehadtopassaswimmingtest.

Andwhydidn’tyouhavetopass?

BecauseIcouldswim.YeahIcouldswim,Iwasagoodswimmer.

AndwhatwasthebeachlikeatSierraLeone?

Ohlike,thesamewas

31:30 coarserthantheGoldCoast.

Butotherwise?

Yeah,justanordinarybeach,nosurfjustordinary,stillwater.

Andtemperaturewisehowwasitbeing?

Ohaboutthesameahere.

Andhowlongdidyoustoptherefor?

Onlyacoupleofhours.Justenoughtolettheboysgoashoreandhaveaswimandcomebackontime.

Howimportantisthatshoreleaveonceyou’vebeenontheshipforanylengthoftime?

32:00 Itgivesyouachancetostretchyourlegs,that’saboutall.Ifyou’reinportformorethanfourhours,it’sadifferentstory,butthiswasashortbreak,shortstretchyourlegsandhaveabitoffunandgobackonboard.

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What’sthelongestyou’vebeenwithouthavinganytimeashore?

WellIsupposeaboutthreeweeks.

Doyoustarttofeelabitedgyafter?

32:30 Nonotreally,yougetusedtoit.Probablysome,someeffectsothersmorethanothersbutalotofus,didn’tworryaboutit?

Ifyou,thisisjusttalkingfrommyexperiencesofbeingonsmallboats,butifyougoashoreandspendthenightcouldyoustillfeel…

Ohyeah,always,yeah.

Wasthatstrange?

Nogotusedtoit.The,eventhefirsttimeyougoashore,

33:00 youswayuntilyougetyourlandlegsthenyou’reright,yeah,theywerefun.

Andsoyouheadeddownthecape?

Yes,wewenttoSimon’sTown,whichwasCapeTown,wewenttothenavaldockyardofCapeTown.WedidaboilercleaninSimon’sTown,threedayswewerethere.

33:30 Whatisaboilercleanseentail?

Cleaningtheboilersit’s,noyoucleanoutthe,well,eventhoughweusedpurewater,there’sacertainamountofscumgetsinthemsoeverynowandagainyoucleanoutyourtubes.Andthescrubtheboilerstomakesurethey’reallright.

Andwhoworksonthis?

Thestokers.

34:00 Andwhatdoeseveryoneelsedo?

Welltheseamenhavegototherstufftodoupondeck,butthere’salwayssomethingtodo.

Andhowlongdidittaketocleantheboilers?

Ohit’dtake24hourstodoeachboiler.

24hoursnon-stop?

Hm.

Andyousaideventhoughyouusepurewater,howwouldyougetthepurewater?

Troughtheevaporators,

34:30 they,allshipsevaporatetheirownwater.Andit’spurewater.The,wellnot,wellyeahit’spurewaterbutit’snotreallygoodfordrinking.

Whatdoesittastelike?

Water,goodwater.They,yeswell,

35:00 what,ifyougetabad,likesay,somethinggoeswrongtotheevaporatoranditgetsalittlebitofsaltinit,switchitovertotankwater,switchitovertotheshipscompanywater.Ifit’snotgoodenoughforboilers.Sothere’stwolotsofwaterthere’spurewaterfortheboilersanddrinkingwater.

Andwhatwaterwouldyouusedtocleantheboilers?

Purewater.

Andsowheredoesthatsortofscummy

35:30 buildupcomefrom?

Ohyouknowyourself,youboilwater,yougetaslightscumoffit,soitdoes.Anditcouldbealittlebitofoilinittoofromsomewhere,fromaleakagesomewhere.

Andifaboilerisn’tcleanedregularly,whatcanhappentoit?

Well,oneboilerblewup.

36:00 Whendidthat?

Itgotcoatedwiththescum,couldn’tevaporate,bangawayshewent.IthinkitwastheQuiveranIthink.

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Onthe?

Quiveran.

Whatwouldhappenifaboilerblewupintermsofrunningtheship?

Nothingyougotanotherone.Butyoudon’tgoasfast.Seethey’lldo25knotsononeboiler,

36:30 butyouwantextraknotsyougottheotherboilertogiveyouahand.Seethe,IwasonWarramungawehadthreeboilersonit,weonlyusedtwobutone,thethirdonetakesusupto32knots.

Andwhatifinahypotheticalsituation,likeyoumentionedhowlongittakestocleantheboilers,whathappenshowlongittaketocleantheboilers,whatifyou’rereallyinanactionsituationwhere.

Youdon’tyoulastitoutbut

37:00 cleanitassoonasyoucan.

Sothere’snotawaytodopreliminarycleaning?

No.

AndwhathastobeswitchedoffIguessoftheshiptoallowtheboilerstobesafeenoughtobecleaned.

Wellit’sgotcoolitdowntostartoffwith,butyoucansteamononeboilerwhilethey’recleaningtheotheroneandviceversa.

Butyoudidn’thavetodothat.

37:30 Ohno,weusedtodothembothatthesametime.

Andyouwereherecleaningtheboilersandthendidyougetachancetogoashoreor?

Yeah,IwentuptoCapeTown,hadalookaroundthecape,aroundSimon’sTown.Ofcourseitwasanother,navy,Simon’sTownwasthenavaldepotthere.Uponthecape,hadacoupleofdaysupthecoastandthenbacktotheshipandthenwewentaroundtoDurban.

What’stheCapelike?

38:00 Inthosedaysitusedtobejustanotherportthatwasall.We,somethingthat’sgoingtolast20yearsthatallthebigbuildingsweregoingup?

Howaboutweretherelotsof,seeingasSimon’sTownwasanavyport.Lotsofinternationalorallied…?

38:30 Yeah,theywould,differentshipscomein,yeah.

Andhowwouldyougreatanothership?

Justtakethemasforgranted.Nooneinterferedwiththem,if,anothershipcomein,whoknowsifyouevenspeakthesamelanguage,youalwaysreadthemaswell.

AroundCapeTownwhereyouwerethereonleavewasthereanyinteractionwithanyotherAlliedforces?

No,nowe,thenoweneverhadany

39:00 troublewiththematall.

Anygoodtimeswith?

Ohyeah,everybodyhadagoodtimewhenyouwereashore,whetheryoulikeditornot,youhadagoodtime.CapeLionLagerisverynice.

BetterthantheGibraltar?

Ohyeah,differentbeeraltogether.

Where’sitbreweddoyou?

ThebreweryisinCapeTown.

39:30 Andwhatmakesitabetterbeerthan?

OhIdon’tknowbutitwasbeautifulcomparedwiththe?

Andhowabout,inaplacelikethat,wherethere’ssomanyIguessarmedforcescomingthroughdotheychargeoutrageouspricesforthebeer?

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No,no,wewereallright.ThefactiswewereAustralians,everybodylikedAustralians.

Whyisthat?

Idon’tknowjustlikedAustralians.

40:00 IsawanAussieintowntodayyouknowandwewentaroundtoDurban,weusedtopickupourconvoysfromDurbantakethemacrosstoIndia,oruparoundthecoastSomaliaandallthoseplaces,andthenwe’dbringthemback.BasedonDurbanandthenwe’dboilercleanandwe’dwhiparoundtoSimon’sTowntodoaboilerclean.

Tape5

00:38 Durban,weusedtobasedonDurban,weusedtoworkfromDurban,CapeTown,we’donlydoboilercleansandsoforth.

AndwhatwouldyoudooutofDurban?

Ohrunuptheeast,westcoastof,noeastcoastofAfrica,upthe,notthe,I’mtalkingaboutJapannow,uptoMombassa,

01:00 AdenandthenacrosstoIndiaandbackagaintotheconvoys.

Youweredoingconvoys?

Convoydutyyes.

Abouthowmanyshipswouldbeaveragekindofconvoy?

Ohnotmanyonthese,onlybeaboutfourorfive.

Andtakeusthroughwhatyourshipwoulddoonaconvoy?

Wellzigzagacrosstheoceanthat’sallwecoulddoandbeonalertas,

01:30 welltryingtolookforsubmarinesandalthoughGermansubmarinesnevergotoutthatfar.WethoughttheJapanesemighthavegotthatfarbuttheynevergotthereeither.

Sowastheremuchactionat?

No,nothe,theonlyactionwesawwas,wedidaraidonPadang.OrweusedtocallitSubang,buttheycalledit,Ilookedupthereferdexes[maps];it’sPadang.Threedestroyerswentintotheharbourand

02:00 diditoverwithgunfire,torpedoeseverything.Anythingintheharbourwehadtoshootat,thatwaswhenwewerewiththeFarEasternFleet.Andthen,camebacktoCeylon,Trincomaleeactually.

WhattargetswereyoulookingforinPadang?

Nothing,anythingthatwas,ships,anythingthatwasthere.

Didyou,seethesightupondeck?

NoIwasdownbelow.

Andhowdidthis

02:30 operationgo?

Verysuccessful,seewewentovertoWestAustraliaandweformedinWestAustraliaandthe,upnearBroomeandwesailedfromBroomeuptoSumatraIthinkitwasyeah,andPadangisonthetip,that’swherewentinthere.

AndtellusaboutwherewereyoubasedinIndia?

Well,TrincomaleeoffCeylon

03:00 thatwasourbase.ThatwasthehomefleetfortheFarEasternFleetwasbased.

Andwhatwasthescenetherelike?

Well,itwasalllookedlikeabaywithalltreesinit.Wecouldn’tseeany,wellwecouldshipsbutwecouldn’tseeanyvillageoranythinglikethat.Thatcomealonglater,butatthetimewewerethere,itwasjustbay.

03:30 Andthe,awhat’s-a-name,acrossthebaykeepingsubmarinesoutofityeah.

Doyougetanytimeleave?

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YeahwewentuptoJetalava,whichisoff,oryougothroughthecapitalofCeylon,Kandy,uptheretheteafields,wentupthereafewdaysand

04:00 comebackagain.

Andwhatwasthescenelikeupthere?

Verynice,you’veseenitontheadsonTV[television],allthepickersandthat,wellthat’swhattheydo,that’salltheydidwaspicktheleavesoffthetrees.Wehadaverypleasanttimeupthere.

And,didthisseemsofarawayfromthewaror?

WellIsuppose

04:30 itwas,butitdidn’tseemthatmakeanydifferencebecauseitwassopeacefulandquietupthere,wedidn’tworryaboutit.

Andhowwereyoulivingupthere?

Inhuts.TheonlytimewesawKandywaswhenwewentthroughonthewayupandsawitonthewayback.Thatwasverynice,Isupposeitwasanicelittletowninthosedays,it’sabitbiggernow.

Goodtea?

05:00 Yeah.

TherewasastoryyoutoldusearlieraboutinAdenplayingahockeygame?

Yeah,hadaboatracethereandwehadahockeygamethere.IwasintheboatracewhichwewonandIwasinthehockeygamewhichweallwontoobutyouknow,brokeanankle.Andsomebodyelsegotabrokennoseandsomebodygotabrokenarm.Itwasaverysuccessfulhockeygame.

Itwasaprettyroughgame.

05:30 Itwas,yeah.

Whywasitsucharoughgame?

Wellofficersdressedasaship’scaptain.Andengineeringofficer,wellhe’sdeadnow,Farncombe,wellforsomereasonwedidn’tlikeeachotherandweopposedeachotheronthehockeyfield.Andthat’swhathappened,hegotabrokennoseoutofit,Igotabrokenankle.

Wasthereanyfalloutfromthis?

No,no.Justthe,

06:00 Ifinishedinhospitaltohavemylegplastered,wentbackonboardtheshipandIstoppedonitallthetimemylegwasinplasterandIkeptwatches.

Whichhospitaldidyougoto?

OhAden,militaryhospitalinAden,yeah,don’tknowthenameofit.

Whatwasthatlike?

Oh,asfarasallmilitaryhospitalsgo,verystrict,Iwasonlyinthereforthree,fourhours,tookmebackonboard.

06:30 AndwhatwasAdenlikeasaport?

Welllikeall,wellEgyptianports,putitlikethat,nothingjustafewbuildings.

Whatdidmendowhentheygotsomeleaveonaportlikethis?

Ohwedidn’tgetleave.Oranyleavewegot,wellwehadaboatracebetweenthedestroyersthere.Andthehockeymatchwasthere,theyhad

07:00 aMelbourneCuptherewhichwerunourselves.

Tellusaboutthat?

WellIwasn’ttiedupinit,buttheseamenranit,blokebythenameofStarchyMandarantheMelbourneCup,hewasthebookie,andIdon’tknowhowtherunthehorses,butthat’sit,theyrantheMelbourneCup.Andtheyhadfootracesandsoforth,andthatwasit.

Didanyofthemenvisitlocalbrothels,or?

07:30 NotthatIknowof,notthatIknowof,Idon’tthinktherewas,ortherecouldhavebeen,butnotthatIknowofwasanybodythere.

Wouldtherebeinformationonwhattodo,incasetheydid?

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Ohyeah.

Whatwouldtheytellthemen?

Wellthey’dtellusthatcleanlinessisnexttoGodliness,andbehavethemselvesandwehadagooddoctoronboard,DrBricknell,hewasalieutenant,

08:00 lieutenantcommander,hewasprettygood.Heusedtogivethemsstrictlectureeverynowandthen,andthey’dbehavethemselves.Andheusedtoplaytheviolin,itsoundedlikesomebodyhadrunoutof,awheelhadrunoutofgreaseitwasthatbad,buteverytimeheplayed,everytimewehadaconcertonboardheplayedtheviolin.Yeah,wehadatonoffun.

Didanybodyelseplayaninstrument?

No,no,

08:30 acoupleoftimeswewenttothecruiserstolistentothemarineband,alwayshavepicturesonboardthefocusofthenight-time,WarrenHarbour,yeah.

Whatpictureswereyouseeing?

OhBettyGrableandallthoseyouknow,1943,theywerealong,longwhileago.60years.

Anddidyouhaveanypetsonboard?

09:00 Therewasamonkey,theyhadamonkey.Itdidn’tlikethecoldweathersoitdiedofpneumonia.Butohnothatwastheonlypetwehad.

Whatwasit’sname?

Murphy.ItgotnicknamedtoMurphy.

Andwhatwoulditdo?

Ohvisiteverybodyinthe,andthere’soneblokehedislikedhimheusedtopiddleoneverynowandthen.Getuponthe

09:30 raftinthesillontheupperdeckandpiddledownonhim.Hedidn’tlikeitatall.

ThereasstoryalsoyoumentionedaboutwiththeOerlikongunandafatalaccident.

Yestherewas,therewas,asseamanbythenameofRoss,orleadingnameofRossStanley,butwentoff,prematurely,accidentallyactually,andithitthe

10:00 searchlight,wentaroundthesearchlight,andcomeoutandhitRoss.Sothatwasit.

AndwhathappenedtoRoss?

Died,hewaskilled.

Sothegunwentoff?

Yeahwentoffprematurely,theydon’t,theystilldon’t,Idon’tthinktheyknowtodaywhatcausedittogooff.

Andhowdoesabulletgoaround?

Wellithitthepolishedsurfaceofthesearchlightandwentaroundit.

10:30 Andyoucouldseeallthewayaround,ittrackeditoutandkilledhim.

Soyousawthishappen?

WellIdidn’tseeitbutIwasontheupperdeckatthetime,Iheardthegungooffbutthatwasit.

Andhowdidtheshipreacttothistragedy?

Howwouldanybodyreact,excepteditwasanaccidentandthatwasit.Butregrettedit.

Werethereeveraninvestigationor?

11:00 Onlybytheship’screw.Andtheycouldn’t,theystilldon’tknowwhyitwentoff.

Werethereanyotheronboardaccidents?

Nonotreally.Ohtheremighthaveafewstrainsandsprainsandstufflikethatbut,nothatwas.

Whataboutwhenyouwereconvoyingorwasthereanycasesofpeoplecomingclosetodeath?

Notasfaraswewereconcerned,therewasa

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11:30 oneoftheshipswewereon,oneoftheseamenjumpedoverboardonit.Blackastheaceofspades,theythinkhewentabitcrazy.WewentandpickedhimupandwhathappenedtohimafterthatIdon’tknow.

Washe,youdon’tknowwhetherhelivedor?

Ohhelived,butwhattheydidwithhimafterthatIdon’tknow.

Andyousaidhewasblackastheaceofspades.

Ohyeah,hewasadarkie.

Wherewashefrom?Whatwashisbackground?

12:00 IthinkhewasoneoftheAfricancountries,yeahoneoftheAfricancountries.

Sowhatmotivatedsomeonetojumpover?

Idon’tknow,nobodycouldtellbecauseoneminutehewasnormal,nextminutehewasoverboard.

Doestheseaeverymesmerisepeople?

Itdoes,yeah.

Tellusaboutthat?

Wellit’sneverhappenedtomebutI’veneverlookedatverylongthough.Likeyou’ll

12:30 seethemandthey’restandingandstareatthewateranditmesmerisesyou.

Andcanthishaveanimpactonsomethinglikethis?

Wellitmusthavebecause,hejumpedoverboard,sothat’s’theonlyreasontheythinkthat,whathappened.

Wastherecasesofpeoplejustnotdealingwithconfinedspaces?

Well,Idon’tknow.

13:00 The,asfaraswe’reconcerned,ofcourseweweredownbelowinmachineryspaces,theywereallconfinedspaces.Butweneverhadanytroublewiththembutsomeoftheseamenwouldn’tgonearthem,theywerefrightenedofit.Butnoitwas,neverheardany,storiesaboutit,yeah.

Whataboutothercaseofkindofonboardgongmad?

Ohsomedon’tlikebeinghemmedupforawhile.

13:30 But,ohno,that’s,weputtheminsickbayforawhile,they’llbeallright.

Wasthereanypeoplewhichcouldn’tfitintothecrew?

Thereweresome,wesoongotridofthemthough,theyweresentbacktoAustralia.Mostofthecrewwereveryhappy,verycontentwiththeship,butbeingawayatthetime,twoyears,weregettingbitrestlessitwas

14:00 justafterthattheystartedsendingsomeofthecrewhome.Andofcoursereplacingthemwithothers.

What’ssomeofthethingsthatkeepsyousaneafteracoupleofyearsbeingonboardwiththesamepeople?

WellIusedtoplayalotofsport.AndeverynowandthenasportingteamwouldwantmeandI’dgoawaywiththem.Andthatwastheonlyreasonthatkeptme,therewasalotlikedmetoo,something

14:30 todo.

Andtellusabout,whereyouwentafterthisperiodescortingshipsfromIndiatoAden?

WellIspentmy21stbirthdayatMombasa.AndwhenwegotbacktoDurban,wealwaysmeetataplace…Oh,what’sthenameoftheplace?Ican’tthinkofitnow.Butwealwaysmeetatthisoneplace.Andthisnight

15:00 wewerethereandIwastakingmycrewfor,tocelebratemy21stbirthdayandthisbigbuckNegro,hewaitedus,hewasaboutsixfootfour,weighed,likethesideofawreckhouse,youknow.Andhesaid,“Ohthesailor’s21stbirthday?Magnumsuityou,sir?”Hewentaroundeverytableandgaveuschampagnefromeverytableandofcoursewedrunk,andwewentbackandwewere,

15:30 realfull.Gotbackonboard,andwehadtogooutitwasaconvoy,introuble,andwehadtoflashup,gotosea,andhelpthemout,wewerethefirst,Iwasthefirstcrewbackonboard,wewerethefirstboileralight,Idon’tknowtothisday,wewrotedownonabitofpaperwhatwethoughtwehadtodo,flashedup,gotunderway,theyflashedthesecondboilerunderwayandthenextmorning

16:00 wecouldn’treadthepaperbecausethewedidn’tknowwhatweweredoing,couldn’treadit.Butthat

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wasmy21stbirthday.

Sohowdidyoumanagehalfpissed?

Wellwedidallright,wegotitawaysteamedoutoftheheadsandbythetimewewererelievedwewerepracticallysober,soweknewwhatweweredoingthen,butthefirsthourorsowedidn’twegotitawayandawaywewent.

Howdoyouthinkyoumanagedit?

Wedidallright.

16:30 Imeanhowdoyouthinkyouwereabletomanageit?

Onlythroughtraining,throughtraining,it’sjustcametoyounaturally.Soandalltypesofthingslikethat,whenyouaretrained.Itautomaticallycomestoyou.

Nowhowdid,blacksailorsgetalongwithwhitesoldiers?

Weneverhadany,butintheAustraliannavytheygotAboriginalsinitand

17:00 theydidallright,yeah.Lotsofthesmallershipshadsome,butthedestroyersdidn’thaveno.

Andwhataboutotherminorities,likegaysailorslikeyoumentionedthatqueermedicalofficer?

Well,weneverstruckanyontheQuickmatch.But,blokeIwastalkingaboutwasontheWarramunga.Nohe,theywere,wellthey’dgetonallrightI’dsay,nobodyworriedthem,theyneverworriedanybodyelseeither.Butthey,nobodyontheQuickmatch.

17:30 Sotelluswheredidyougonext?

Wellthat’dbewhat,’44we’reworkingabout,wellwe’veworkedthecoastofIndiaandallthatupuntilwe’reduetocomehome.ThenwesailedforFremantle,wegottoFremantle,leftforhalfofourcrewon

18:00 board,leftour,orallofourWestAustralianatPerth,orinFremantleandhalfwayacrossandwebroughttheDukeandDuchessofGloucester,weescortedthemacrosstheywerethefirst,theGovernor-GeneralandwehadaspeedacrosstheAustralianBight,but32nights.ButwegotbacktoSydney,thenacouple

18:30 ofdays,thecrewhadn’tstartedtogothen,buttheAustraliawehadtotakesomegunbarrelsandthatuptotheAustralians,theCoralSeaSydneyprotectionandsoforth,andthenwecomebackwesplitthecrewupfrom,theywenteverywhere,Istoppedonituntiltheygotthenewcrew,andtheyweretrainingthemandIstoppedonuntiltheendof29thofJanuary,stoppedon

19:00 andcameback,butinthemeantimewechangedskipper.We’d,firstlieutenanthadgone,Davis,Rhodeshadgonetheskipperandwe’dgotOttoHumphreyBeecher.Hewas,inmyopinion,hewasarealgentleman.AndI’lltellyouafunnystoryaboutthat.Ihadthestokersthereandeverystokerwasdressedthesame,shirts,trousers,socks,allmatched.

19:30 Becausewe’dgotontothistailorinBombay,andhedidthewholelotandtheskippercomealongandhadaninspectionforrounds,ordivisions,andhetookonelookatthestokers,andhesaidtome“Mackie,”hesaid,“theylookgood.”Hesaid,thefirstlieutenant,hesaid,“Andyoulooklikeshithouse.”Thatwas,heturnedaroundtothefirstlieutenantandhesaid,“Gettheaddressofthattailorandgoashoreandgetsome.”

20:00 Andthatwasthetypeofblokehewas,andheevengotthegearlikeit.Soafterthatwehadnocomplaints,wewereagoodship’scompanyallthewaythrough.

NowthatyoumentiongoingtoBombay,whatwassomeofyourtimesinIndialike?

Yeahwelltheywere,welltheyneverworriedus,seeIwas,thesecondtimeIwasthereIstillhadmyleginplaster.

20:30 AndIwastheonlyonethatcouldwearwhitesashore,but,theyneverworriedus,noweusedtogotoaplacecalledBreachCandy,whichwasaswimminghole,arecreationforallthewhitepeopleoutthere.Andwe‘dhaveacurry,andthefirsttimeweaskedforacurry,theIndianwaitersaid,“Youlikeithot?”“Oh,ashotasyoucangetit,”sothefirstone,hehadtogetagreatbigjugoficewater,orangejuice,

21:00 “What’stheorangejuicefor?”Hesaid,“Youhavecurry,youdrinkorangejuice.”AndI’lltellyouwhat,firstmouthfulIdrankajugfulloficewater;oh,hot!Butitwasbeautifulcurryandthat’showwestruckBombay.Itwasonlyacoupleofkilometresoutoftown,butnoitwasagoodplace.

AndwhatsortofthingswouldyougetuptoinIndia?

Youcouldn’tgetuptomuch,couldn’tgetuptomuch,justgotodotheshoppingandsoforth,

21:30 thatwasit.

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Whatwasyourimpressionoftheplace?

Stunk,youcouldsmell,actuallyyoucouldsmellanyportinAustralia,100milesout.Indiayoucouldsmell150milesout.Ohyeahyoucan,youwanttocomeintoSydney,andyoucansmellit,youknowwhenyougetclosetoshore.

Andwhat,

22:00 whatkindofsmellscomeoutofIndia?

WellIdon’tknowactuallythat,butit’sadifferentsmellaltogether,liketheseaisanicecleansmell.Butthisyoucouldsmellit,it’sgotasmellallofitsown.Sydneyisnotsobad,butBombayis.

Sotellus,whatwasthefeelinglikebeinghomeafterallthistime?

22:30 Well,afterIlefthomein’41whenIleftAustraliatherewasnoYanksinAustralia,whenIgotbacktoAustraliaalltheyankswerenorth,soIneversawyankinBrisbane,but,noitwasverygood,IhadsixweeksleaveandIwasdrafted,theskippergivemesixweeksleavebecauseIstoppedontheshipandsoforth,andIgotbacktoMoretonand

23:00 themaster-at-armsrunmeinbecauseIwasaadrift,hetriedtellmeIwasadriftandIshowedhimmyleavepassandhehadtoapologise.But,andthatwasmyexperienceontheQuickmatch.OnandinSouthAfrica,fromDurbanwewentuptoaplace,atimberplantationrunbytheThrings.THRINGS.Wewereupthereforfourdaysabeautifulplaceoutsideof,

23:30 where,Ican’tthinkofthenamejustslippedmymindbutnoitwasabeautiful,theygrewpalms,younameit,gumtreesthewholelotandtheyhadnativesthereandeverynowandthenthey’dtakethreeorfournativesintothehouse,getthemtolookafteryou,the

24:00 Europeans,sothatwaytheytaughtthemhowtospeakEnglishandlookafter,liveproperly,yeah.Butthatbigcorals,beautifulbigcorals,theywerewelllookedafter.

Beautifulbig?

Huts,allthatchedandmadeoutofcaneandsoforth.Thevillages,yeah.

Sotimesyougottolivetheidyllic

24:30 colonialkindoflifestyle.

Iwouldlovetogobackandhavethemoney,gobackandvisitalltheplacesIvisitedduringthewar.Andit’dcostmeafortunesoIcan’tdothat.

Oneofhebestthingsinthenavy?

OhwellIyeahIenjoyedit,therewas,welladmittedlythewarcomeintoittoo,butyouforgotaboutthewar.Wellifyougothit,butyoudidn’t,andthatwasitdonewith.

25:00 Whatkindofthingswouldyougetuptoatthisplace?

Ohwewentaroundhorsebackridingandtheyhadjeep,wentaroundinthathadalookatallthevarioussizeofthetrees,comebackandyou’dhavedrinksintheafternoon,orIsupposetheycallittiffin,becausetheywereveryEnglishpeople.Andsitonandwatchthe,

25:30 nativesfromdownthecoralsandsoforth,andverygoodyeah.

Andtellus,whatdidyoudoonleavewhenyoureturnedtoAustraliawithsixweeksleave?

OhIdon’tknow.Myfatherwasathome,helpedhimonthefarmabit.

26:00 Wehada,willyeahofcourseatruckonthefarm,Idrovethataround.Wehadabatchofstrawberriesin,Iusedtofindthewormseatingthestrawberries.Andthatwasit,IwentbacktoMoreton,IgotmadeaPO.

Welltellusaboutthat.Whatwashappeningthere?

HMASMoretonwastheBrisbanedepot.

26:30 Therewas,thedockwasacross,itwasrightoppositethesouthBrisbanedrydockandMoretonwasa,anybodylikeiftheQueenslanderswantedaresttheysentthemthere.AndIwentthereandthisBangalow,theHMASBangalow,itwasonlyalightship,coalburner,andgotitgotasfarasMoretonandthepettyinchargeofthestokerstooksick.

27:00 AndloandbeholdIwasthemug–Ihadtogoonboard.WenttoNewGuineaonher,didthelightsonthecoastonthewayup,thentoNewGuinea,colderinPortMoresby.WentaroundtoRabaul,ManusIsland,backovertoWewak.Fortunatelyforustherewasasix-

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27:30 inchnavalgunner,theJapanesehadasix-inchnavalgunneratWewak,itcouldhaveblownusoutofthewaterbuttheywereoutofshells,sowewerelucky.

Sotellus,howdidyoufeelaboutbeingmadeapettyofficer?

No,I’dbeendoingthedutiesforalongwhile.Soitmadenodifference,Ijustcarriedon.

Wereyouproud?

Ohyeahnormally,yeahyou’rerisingintheranks.SeeI’dcomefromathird

28:00 classstoker,I,thenIgottosecond,first,leadingstoker,nowIwasapettyofficer,andcostheonlyhigherthatthatwasthechiefstoker.

Andhowdidyourparentsfeelaboutyourserviceupuntilthispoint.Howweretheyseeingyouafteracoupleofyears?

Ihadn’tchangedmuch.But,theywereverypleasedtoseeme.

28:30 Weretheyproud?

Ohyeah.Veryproud.

Whatdidthisshiplooklike,theBangalow?

Alittle,ohwellIsupposeitwasabout,200,300ton.Itwasjustacoastalfreighterthatrunupanddownthecoast,awaterduck,buttheymadeitalightshipandcarriedacrewof

29:00 whatdiditcarry,aboutnine,no10stokersonboard,about14seamen,acoupleofengineroomartificers.Acoupleforthelights,skipper,firstlieutenantandtwootherofficers,thatwasall.

Andyoumentionedtheduty,

29:30 whatwaschanginglightsexactlylikewhatwouldyouhavetodo?

WellIdidn’thavemuchtodowiththelights,becauseIwasdownbelowallthetime.Butthey’dgoalongandrepairit,orseethatitwasallrightnotnecessarilyrepairitbutseethatitwasallrightandflashedonandoffatnightandsoforth.Sotomakesureitwasinworkingcondition.

Andwhereweretheselights?

Onthereef,

30:00 andthevariousportsofNewGuinea,theoneatWewak,attheentranceofWewakHarbour,itwasoutbutwerepairedit.Rabaulwentover,notRabaul,ManusIslandwentoversupplies,Rabaul,theJapsstillhadit,butyeah,wentovertoManusIslandthenwentbackovertoWewak

30:30 andI,went,fromthereIwentto,FinschhafenandfromthereIflewhomefromFinschhafentoMoreton,theygotareliefforme.

Tellusaboutthedutiesyouwereperformingasapettyofficeronthisship.

WellIjustkeeptheboyshappy,

31:00 keptthemwashedkeepingandsoforth.Workedonthewinchesandsoon,ontheship,youknow,normalduties.

Andwasthisahappyship?

Yeah,itwas,strangeasitmayseem,Iwenttoacoupleofreunions.Ohtheyhaven’thadareunionforawhile,butIwenttoacoupleofreunionsatNorthSydneyYachtClub,andtheywereagoodcrew.

31:30 Howdiditcomparewithbeingonthebattleshipbefore?

Nocomparison.Nocomparison.They,wellone’slikegettingintoaconvertibleintorowingboat;that’sthecomparison.

Andhowdidyoufeelaboutthisnewroleincomparison?

Oh,allrightitwas,itneverworriedmeactually,Iknewwhattodo,

32:00 howtodoitandIjustwentaheadanddidit.

Wereyoudisappointedatallaboutchanging?

Oh,no,nobutmyonlythoughtwasIwasatraineddestroyerhand,cameoffamoderndestroyerandontotheoldcoalburnersagain,buttheysoonchangedthat.Iwentbackto,leftthatandwentbacktooneofthenewfrigates,theMacquarie.

Andyoumentionedbrieflythatyoucouldhavebeenshotout

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32:30 ofthewater,tellushowyouendedupinthesituationwhereyouendedupwithinfiringrangeof.

Wellsomethinghadagoatusanditwasasubmarine,Iwasdownthesecond,theafterboilerroom,theoldalongsidetheship,atorpedoandIthought,“Gee,God,what’sthat?”Soranguptheengineroomandsaid,“Didyouhearanoise?”Theysaid,“Yeah,wethinkitwasa

33:00 torpedo;we’renotsure.”Sotheyrangthebridge,andthebridgesaid,“Ohyeah,thetorpedo.It’sheretosee;it’sjustfloated.”Howitmissedwedon’tknowbutifit’dhitusupthesternitwouldhavewipedoutthe,gearroomandwipedoffthetwopropellersandwewouldhavebeenhopeless,they’dhavegotus.Butwewentaroundandgotit.

Yougotit?

Ohyeah,yeah.

Welltellusaboutthat.

Ohthere’snotmuch

33:30 totell.Whentheythrowadepthchargepattern,theyrunoverit,droptheircharges,gofurther,throwthetwosidecharges,throwthefoursidechargesout,goaheadanddropanother,soyougotthepatternofeight.Andlistentoit,ifyougetit,ifyoudon’tyoucomebackanddothesameagainuntilyoueventuallygetit.There’snottoomanyescapedthedepthcharges.

34:00 Anddiditcometothesurfaceor?

Wellitwasdark,butweknowwegotit.

AndthenyouwerewithinrangeoftheJapanesegunsor,atWewak?

Ohno,no,ohwewere,ohwewere.

Howdidyouendupgettinginrange?

Theywereoutofshells.

Buthowdidyoucometobewithintarget?

Wentintodoalight.Wedidn’tknowthesix-inchgunwasontheisland,

34:30 theycouldn’thavegotuswithanordinaryrifle,butwithasix-inchguntheycouldhaveblownusoutofthewater.

Andwhendidtheshipfirstrealisetherewasasix-inchgunoutthere?

Wedidn’twefoundoutlater.Foundoutlater.

Reflectingonalltheseevents,didyoueverthinkyou’vehadalotofluck?

OnIsuppose,Isuppose,yeah,youcouldsay,luck,itwouldn’tbe

35:00 goodmanagement,butluck.

Andsotelluswhereyouwentfromthisship.

IwenttotheMacquarie,oneofthenewfrigates,itwasa,a,wecommissioneditwhen,justbeforetheendofthewarandafterthewar,

35:30 wewentuparoundIndonesialookingforPOWs[PrisonersofWar]ortheremainsofPOWs.Andwhatwediscoveredupthere,Iusedtogoashorewithmylieutenant,hewasa,welltheactually,you’dcallhimaspy,Ineverseenamansmokesomanycigarettes,soIusedtocarryhiscigarettesforhim,he’dhaveacigarette,throwitout,andinthemeantimehe’d

36:00 flickacigarettelighterasacamera.Andohdozensoftimesadayhe’ddothis.Wefoundblokes,ortheremainsofblokes,they’dbeenhackedacrossthelegswithaswordsandbeheadedandweprovedthemythof,inthosedaystheyhadamyththattheJapanese,notthe,thewhat’shernames,wouldtheBalinesewouldshowthehighsideofa

36:30 what’s-a-nameandtheyhadtojumpthat,buttheydidn’tshowwhatitwas,theyusedtocometotheotherside,onlyaboutthathigh,jumpoverandfalldowntheotherside,andthatwasall,theirwaytomanhood.Soweprovedthemwrongthere.

Soexplainthat,whatwouldtheydo?

Aheightamound,onesidewasbuiltupthatwaytheothersidewasabigdropandtheyusedtosaytheyhadtojumpfromthereupoverthetop,buttheyusedtodoittheotherwayaround,comeoverthebutanddrop

37:00 downbelow.Soweprovedthatwrong,wentintoJakarta,wepaid,wewerefromabattalion,werun

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acrossPOWsthereandtheyweretellinguswhattheirlifewaswiththeJapanese.AndwellweleftthenandwecomebacktoDarwin.

Whatsortofthingsweretheytellingyou?

37:30 Well,thisblokewastheeditoroftheBatavia,oneofthem,theBatavianewspapers,hishouseboywasJapaneseandacaptainintheJapanesearmy.Whenwarbrokeouthejustwalkedinandsaid,“Right,myprisoners,”andtookthemoverandthey,theprisonersintheJapanesewereinBataviaforohtwoyears,threeyears.

38:00 Andtolduswhattheyusedtodotothem,youknow.

Andwhatdidyouthinkasyoufoundbodiesthatwerehackedinthelegsand?

Well,just,therecouldhavebeenI.Wedidn’tworryaboutit,butwetookwediscoveredtheirremains,leftanotefortheWarGravesCommissiontogoaroundandfindthem.Tookallidentification,didn’ttakeidentification,

38:30 wenotedtheirtagsandkeptrecordsthatwaybutwelefttheirtagswiththebody.SothattheWarGraves[Commission]couldidentifythem.

And,wasitagruesomescenetofind?

Wellsomeofthemhadbeendeadalongwhile.Andthere’sjustbonesthat’sallbutyoucouldseewherethey’dbeenhackedwithswords.

Wasthisahardjobforyoutodo?

No,notreallybecauseIwas

39:00 allIwasdoingwascarryingcigarettes,butIwentaroundwithhim.

It’sadangerouskindof?

Ohyeah,dangeroussmoke,yeah.Butnotheynevergaveusanytrouble,theonlytroubletheIndianSikhswasinJakartaandonenightwecomebackonboardandtherewasanIndianSikhsheaduponspikesaroundthedockyard.And

39:30 Indiansaidforeveryonethey’vekilled,they’dput12uptherewithhim.Sothenextmorningtherewas12headsupthere,sotheygottherevengethatway,theyneverdiditanymore.

Imighttakeupsomemoredetailsonthatafterthistape.

Tape6

00:32 So,howlongdidyouspendinIndonesia?

Aboutfourmonths,fourmonthsalltold.

Andhowmuchofthattimewasonshore?

None,itwasallonship.Wewerebasedontheship,weusedtoworkfromtheship.

Andwhenyoudiscovered

01:00 bodiesandthissortofthing,wouldtheybeinparticularareasandlike?

Noallover,allover.Wewentfrom,wewerebasedonJakarta,wewereupthecoast,backupthecoastandsoforthyouknow.Butohnoitwasinteresting.

AndwhenhadyouheardaboutthevictoryinEurope?

Oh,wherewerewe,

01:30 wewereatseasomewhere.OhinEurope,yeahwewerestillatsea.

Andgiventhatyou’dspenttimepartyingfortheRoyalNavyandthatsortofthing,weretherecelebrationsonboard?

Nowedidn’tcelebrateit.Evenwhenvictory,orofcoursethevictoryoverJapan,wellwereatsea

02:00 then,onalloccasions,thevictoriesareoverbythetimewegotbacktoshore.

Butonshipwerethereanycelebrations?

Ohprobably.Noliquorconcerned,buteverybodysaid,“Ohit’sover,”andthatwasit,finished.

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WhatdoyourememberhearingabouttheendofthewarinthePacificwiththeJapanese?

Nothing,justthat,ohweknewtheycapitulated,

02:30 andthatwasit.

Didyouhearaboutthebomb?

Yes,heardaboutthefirstoneandI,thesecondone,yeahwejustheard,abouttwodaysafterwards,theyfinishedup.

Andwhatwaspeoplegeneralreactionto?

Wellitwasover,thatwasit,finished,wecangohomenow,we’vedoneit,doneourjobwecangohome.AlotofshipsIsupposecelebrated

03:00 indifferentways,butnoitwas.

AndI’lljustpickitupfromthereinmomentbutyouweretellingmethiswhenwegotbackfromlunchthatyouwereonBBC[BritishBroadcastingCorporation]radio.

Ohyes,IdidabroadcasthomewithTommyTrinder.

Sotellmeaboutthis,whatwas?

OhIdon’tknowwewere,Iwas,threeofuswereinvitedtogototheBBC,theyhadabigauditoriumand

03:30 wewentthere,andtheblokesaid,“One,two,three,comeonuphere,”sowewentup.Andwejustbroadcasthome.

Whatdidyoutalkabout?

Ohanything,youjustageneralskitthatwasall,abitofalaugh,butwithTommyTrinderitwasagoodfellowstobewith.

Anddidyouevermeetanyonewhohadheardyouontheradio?

Ohtheydid.TheytoldmypeoplethatIwasgoingtobeonradioand

04:00 theysawit,yes,orheardit.

Anddoyourememberwhattheskitwasaboutatall?

No,no,itwas62yearago,itwasguystuff,yeah,62yearago.

Andsoafteryou’dspentthetimeinIndonesiawheredidyouheadafterthat?

WecomebacktoDarwin.ThenIlefttheship,IwenttoFlindersNavalDepot.

Wasthatyourdecision?

Wellnoitwasthenavy’s

04:30 decisionbecausetheysentusdowntodoaclass.Dothemechanicians’class,wellbymilitaryagreementIfailedit,Ididn’twanttobeamechanicianbecauseyouhadtosignfor13yearsandIwaswithinfiveyearsofnothavingtosignon.So

05:00 theywerequitepleasedthatIdidn’tgoonwithitandIwasquitepleasednottogoonwithit.Ipassedoutaschiefstokerthere,ofFlinders,andthentheysentmetoNewGuinea,to[HMAS]Tarangau.Idid13monthsinTarangauandthenwecamebacktotheHobart.FromtheHobartIwenttoWarramunga.

AndwhatwereyoudoingwiththeHobart?

05:30 Ohjust,actuallytheHobartwasadeadshipputitthatway.Shehadabrokenback.Andshejustwaitingtogoaroundtothewreckers.Butno,wewerereservecrewonthat.

Andwhatyearwasthis?Whatyearwasthis?

’48.

AndsowhatwereyoudoingaroundNewGuineaonthe?

Tarrangau,well

06:00 Tarrangauisadepotupthere,andwelookedafter,Iusedtothe,sprayalltheareaformalaria,andmosquitoesandsoforth.Playedalotofsport,onlyusedtoworkinthemorning,andtheafternoonwassport.Weusedtogoswimming,andthat’swhyIswamforthenavyupthere.Andhadafewbeersatnight,playedbasketball,cricket.

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06:30 Didn’tplaytennisbecausewedidn’thavetenniscourts,butno,we,occupiedourtimeprettywell.

Andwhatdoyoumeanyouswumforthenavy?

Welldifferentshipswouldcomeinandthey’d,we’ddrydocksupthereweusedtosinkthedrydockandmakeaswimmingbathsandIusedtoswimforTarrangauagainstallcomersandeventuallyIswamforthenavyagainstallcomers.

Andhowwelldidyoudo?

07:00 OhIwon,ifIwas,occasionally.AttimesI’dgetbeaten,butwedidn’tworryabout.

AndwhatwastheatmosphereinNewGuinealikeatthetime?

Well,sailorswerequitecontentbutofcoursethere’salwaysafewthataren’t.Andthey,usedtoreckonitwasapunishmentdraft.ButnobodyIeverstruckwasapunishmentdraft,therewasacoupleIsupposeweresentupthereforpunishment,but,

07:30 atthattime,seeeveryonewasgettingout,theirtimewasupandtherewastheyhadtheirpointsupfortheirdischarge,theywouldn’tsendthemupthere.

AndhowbadthefactthatNewGuinea’dseensomuchfightingduringSecondWorldWar,wasthereanyofthatevident?

Ohyoucouldseethecrewshadbeenchoppeddown,the,allthelandingstrip,therewasalandingstripoutat

08:00 Tarakan,andwellTarangau,it’snotTarakan,Tarangau,andtheYanksusedtolandtherequiteoften.TheywerebasedupatFinschhafen,andTarangauwasthelandingstripforTarangauandFinschhafen.

Anddidyouhaveany,likedidyouinteractwiththenativesatall?

Nonotreally,thenativesjustkeptawayfromus,particularly.

08:30 Wewere,seewe’dgototheairstripeverysooften.TheRAAF[RoyalAustralianAirForce]wouldsendakiteup,filledupwithtanks,we’dfillupthetankswithdieselandyounameit,DDT[apotentinsecticide]andthose,they’dflydowntoLaeandsprayLae,andthey’dcomeuphereandthey’dflytheareahereandthey’dflytoFinschhafen.Thatwaythekeptthemalariadown.

09:00 AnddidyouenjoythistimeinNewGuinea?

WellI’dbeenmarriedandmysonwasbornsoI,IenjoyedittoapointbutI’dratherbehomewithmywifeandson.

Andhowhadyoumetyourwife?

Well,it’safunnystory,in1945,whenIcomehome,myfathersaidtome,“OhImetsoandsoonthetrain,

09:30 lovelygirl,andifyoudon’tmarryherIwill.”Seeso,Imetherin,’46,engagedin,ohno,metherin’45,engagedin’46,marriedin’47andmysonwasbornin’48.

Sowhenyourfatherhadsaidhehadmether,howdidthen,howdidyougettomeetherafterthat.

Ohstrangeasitmightseem

10:00 Ibroughtherhomeoneday.Yeah,andthatwasit,itwasonfromthenon.

Anddidyoufindthatthesailorsuniformwasimpressive?

Idon’tknow,Jean’sbrotherhadbeeninthemerchantnavy,Iwasstillinthemerchantnavyatthetime,soIsupposeitwasabit,shewasabitwrappedupinthenavy.SowasI.

Andsowhenwasyoursonborn?

10:30 25thApril,1948.

WereyouinNewGuinea?

IwasinNewGuineawhenhewasborn.

Howdidyouhearthenews?

Theysentmeawire,ohitcamethroughthenavyofcourse.

Andwhatwasyourreaction?

Iwentandgotfull.Yeah.

Andhowhardwasitnotbeingabletoseeyourson?

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Veryhard.Veryhard.Hewas

11:00 nearlyninemonthsoldwhenIcameback.

Whatwasitlikeseeinghimforthefirsttime?

Wellhelookedatmeasmuchtosaywhointhehellareyouandohwellhewouldn’t,wellaccordingtoJeanhewouldn’tsleep,andherbrotherusedtowalkhimupanddownsoonenight,Jeanhadtogototown,wewenttheretomymother’splace,andScottleftthebabyhomewithmeandhestartedtocrysoIthought,“Ohwell,”soIgavehimatotof,

11:30 alittlebitofbrandyinabottle,soonputhimtosleep,hesleptforfourhours,longesthe’deverslept.AndthenIgot,hegottoknowmeprettywell.

WhatwasJean’sreactionwhen?

Shedidn’tknow.

Doesshetothisday?

Ohyes,sheknowsnow.

AndwhenyouwereinNewGuinea,wouldshe,wouldyougetmanyletters?

Ohyes,yes,youwritepracticallyeveryday.

12:00 Photosofthebabyandsoforth,yes.

Wouldyoutalktotheotherblokesabout?

Ohyes,mainlytherewasalotofbabiesbornwhilewewereinNewGuinea,Iwasn’ttheonlyone.

Andhowdidyoudecidewhattocallthebaby?

Well,Iwas,alwayswantedason,sohe’snamedDonaldJohn,namedthefirstnameaftermeandthesecondnameaftermyfather.

12:30 Andifithadbeenagirl?

WellPamelaAnne.Jeannienamedthegirls,Inamedtheboy.

AndafteryoucamehomefromNewGuinea,didyougettospendmoretimeathomethen?

Ihadleave,IhadthreeweeksleaveandthenIwentdowntotheHobartandthenfromtheHobartthey,IgotadrafttotheWarramunga.

AndhowdidthisworkwithJean

13:00 andyourson?

NotheystoppedinBrisbaneallthetime.IwasbasedonSydneysoIwenttoSydney,andtheyalllivedhere.

AndtellmeabouttheWarramunga?

Oh,Tribalclassdestroyer,33,000horsepower,threeboilers,twotwinfour-inchgunsforward,onetwinforward,

13:30 onetwinaft.Harlequins,pom-poms,coulddo42knots.Matteroffacttheyweredestroyers.Theyweregooddestroyers.

Andhowabouttheengineandboilerroomandthatsortofthing,howdidthatcompareontheWarramungatoyourprevious?

OhIdon’tthinkalotactuallybutnotasbig,seeI,

14:00 wellontheQuickmatch,theywere,whatsizewerethey,noboilerswerebigger,buttheywouldn’tpushitalongasfastasthetribalclass.Wedidthe,whenweweregoingtoKorea.I’lltellyou,I’llgofurtherthanthat,wewenttoNewZealandwiththeAustralianfleetontheWarramungafirstoff.TheCaptainD,GeorgeArliss.

14:30 Hewascaptain,captaindestroyers.WewentovertoNewZealand,wetouredNewZealand,weplayedcricketovertherewebeatthem.Wentdownthesouthisland,wenttoEdenandquitespectacular,becauseondestroyers,theyalltrytobeateachotherindestroyers,it’sspectacular.Andourwasgoingtocomeoutsternfirstswingaroundinthebasin

15:00 andheadout.OnlycatchisoneoftheboilersfloodedandIwasdownthesecondboilerroom,andafterwe’dclearedouttheharbourandsofourth,Icomeupoutofthe,andIsaid,“Whatinthehellhappenedtofiveboiler?”Andtheblokeinchargehadbrokedownbecausetheboilerhadfloodedandtherewasn’tanythinghecoulddoaboutit,andIdidthemanoeuvreallmyself,soIthought,“Oh,heregoes.”Andsohewasn’tonthebridgeso

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15:30 Ithought,“Heregoes,I’minforit.”Andtheskippergoes,“Congratulations.”Said,“Verygoodjob.”OhIfoundoutwhatitwaslater.WecamebacktoSydneywewenttoCockatoodocks,wechangedskippers,HumphreyBeecherwasourskipper,Igotmadeachiefstoker,andhe

16:00 calledmeuptohiscabin,hesaid,“DoyouwanttogotoKoreawithus?”andIsaid,“Ohyeah,I’llgo,”becauseI’dshippedwithhimbefore.Hesaid,“You’llgoasmysteamingchief.”Isaid,“Yeah,righto,”andthatwasit.WenttoSasebo,ohwenttoKurefirst,ohHongKongfirst,notellingalieDarwin,ohCairnsfirst.AndthentoHongKong,thentoKure,

16:30 KureovertoSouthKorea,backtoSaseboandthat’swherewewerebasedfromthenon.

AndwhatdidyouknowaboutKorea?

Onlythefactthatthey’resendingAustraliantroopsthere.Andwehadtohelpthemout.

Andwhatwasthebriefyouweregivenaboutwhattheynavywasdoingtohelpout?

Wellwewentuponescortduties,andbombardedthecoast.

17:00 Anditwascolduptheretoo.Ohyeah.

AndsowhatwasJean’sreactionhearingthatyou’dvolunteeredtogotoKorea?

Thatwasit,Iwantedtogo,shesaidrightnotrouble.IfthatI’dgonetoAustraliaI’dhavegonetootherwaytotheAntarctic.HavetherestofmysummerdowntotheretotheAntarctic,

17:30 likeBronteouthere,soIstoppedtheWarramunga.

AndtellmeaboutHongKongwhenyoustoppedinthereontheywaytoKorea?

Itusedtobeagoodshoppingtown.Notnow,ofcourseit’sgotalotbiggersincewewerethere,what40,50.

Whatsortofthingswouldyoubuythere?

Ohyoucouldbuyanything.Youcouldbuyanything.

18:00 Watches,buthalfofthemwerefake,youknowthey’devenhaveawatchlikethis,you’dgetforabout20dollarsHongKong,buttheywouldbeafake.

Andwhatwasitliketobeheadingofftowaragainbutthistimeyouwereoldandexperienced.

WellIsuppose,

18:30 itactuallydidn’tmakeadifference,theywerestillatseaandpoachingshipsaroundandonlymorecautiousthat’sall.weweremorecautious,wewerecautiousthat’sall.

Cautiousinwhatsense?

Everybodywascautions,theskipperondown,theydidn’twanttobe,likeIworkedattheAmericanFleetforawhile,withthe[USS]Missouri,andthatwasontheeastcoast

19:00 andthenwewenttoseaJapan,totheYellowSea;itwaslandlocked.Andthenwewentaroundtotheeastcoast,andwewerefightingwiththeNorthKoreans,andtheycamethroughtheharbour,andtheyknockedthemoffasflies,therewasatunneltheyusedtocomethroughthatandthenknockthemallastheycamethroughthetunnel.Sogoodgamepracticethereboy.

19:30 Where,likedescribewheretheNorthKoreanswerecomingout.

Outofthetunnel,outofthe,atunnelunderneathoneofthehills,andthey’dcomethroughthatandknockthemoff.

AndjustbeforewetalkaboutKoreaalittlebitmore,whatwasKurelike?

Theywereverypolite,theyacceptedusand

20:00 ofcourse,theywereallliked.TheyhadabaseatKure.HMASCommonwealth.Weusedtogotherefordrinksandthatwedidn’tgo,we,wouldn’tfraterniseinthetown,butwe’ddrinkintheCommonwealth.Therewasa

20:30 civiliantownjustoutsideofthat.Itwasall,thehelperslikeddownat,where…Wewereknockedoverbytheatombomb.

Hiroshima?

Hiroshima.Wewentdownthere,hadalookthroughthere.

Whatasthatlike?

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Ah,flat,there’sonlyoneplacestillleftthatandthere’samonumenttheretoday.

21:00 It’stheonlyplacethatwasn’tknockeddown.WhereyouwentandoneofthechapsthatwaslivingJapanesestylewewentandhadmealsthere.We’dgoouttothevillageaboutthreekilometresoutoftown.We’dhaveamealthere.

WhatdoyoumeanhewaslivingJapanesestyle?

WellhewaswithaJapanesegirllivingJapanesestyle.

21:30 He’s,inabamboohouse,youknowit’sallwooden,paperwalls.

Whatdidyouthinkaboutthis?

Toosmall,everytimeIusedtowalkinthedoorIusedtobeltmyhead.

Wasitcommon?

Ohyeah,theywereall,that’swhyitwentupso,whentheydroppedbombsonTokyo.

NoImeanwasitcommonthatthere

22:00 weresomeoftheAustralianslivingwithJapanese?

NohewastheonlyoneIknew,therestalllivedoutinthevillage.

Andhowmuchdidyougettoseeoftheoccupationforce?

Wedidn’tgoashoreinKorea.

IntheJapanese,theoccupationforceinJapan?

Well,we,classifiedasoccupationforces.Andwewent

22:30 Aroundtothesouthisland,Sasebo,that’swherewewerebased.Everynowandthenwe’dcomeuptoKure,andohwesawafewotherpeople,notmanybutafew.

AndyoumentionedthattheJapanesepeoplewereverypolite.

Ohyestheywere,theyare.

Didyounoticeanythingaboutthewaytheywereliving,Iguesstheirattitudetowardshavingsomany

23:00 No,theyacceptedus,welltheyhadtobecausethe,nothearmywasthere,thenavywasthere,someoftheairforcewasthereandtheyacceptedit.

And,sothenameofthatotherplaceyouwerebased,notKure?

Sasebo.

Yeah,what’sthisplacelike?

Itwasanavytown,

23:30 allthe,actuallyallthefleetwasbasedthere,Americans,Australians,Dutch,younameittheywerethere.

Whatdidthismeanjustpurelyontheywaytheharbourlooked?

YeahIsupposeso,yeahthe,oh,welookedaroundtheretheAmericansstoodoverthereandtheAustraliansoverthereandtheywereeither

24:00 sidebysideor,yeaheverybodygotonverywell.

Andhowaboutonthebase,howdidyougetalongwithsaytheAmericans?

Well,weweren’t,wewereallontheships,weweren’tonabase,theshipswerebasedonSasebo.Therewasnoreservecrewsonthereit’sjusttheshipswerebasedthere.

Andyoumentionedthatyou’dbeenwiththeskipper

24:30 oftheWarramungabefore.

Ohyeah,yeah.

Andwhatwashelikeasaguyasaman?

WellstuckhimwhenhewasontheQuickmatchandIgotonverywellwithhim,likeheusedtoplayhockeyandIusedtoplayhockeyandheusedtosaytomeeverynowandthen,“We’llhavetohavethatgameofhockeysoonMacka.”“Yeah,rightosir.”Andeverytimehesawmehe’dsay,“Wehaven’thad

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thathockeymatch.”Isaid,“No.”AndIgotonverywell.Andwhenhedied

25:00 IwishI’dhaveknown–I’dhaveflowndowntohisfuneral.

Andhowaboutintermsofthewayherantheship?

Verygood.Likemostofthedestroyercaptains,whentheytookofftheircap,theywereoneofthecrew.Atthe,Iwasatthebakeryoneafternoon,Iusedtogothereeveryafternoonandgetfreshbreadrolls,andhewalkedpassedandsaid,“Whyyouinthere,chief?”Isaid,“I’mgettingmybreadrolls.”

25:30 Hesaid,“What?”Isaid,“Don’tyougetthem?”“No.”Isaid,“Well,”Isaid,“ifyouaskthebakernicelyhewouldgiveyousome.”Andhesaid,“Wouldhe?”Isaid,“Yeah.”Isaid,“Howaboutsendthestewardup…”andthestewardusedtogoupeveryafternoonandgetfreshbreadrollsthesameaswedo.

Andthisisthecookontheship?

Yeah,ohwellhe’sthebakerontheship.

26:00 Andhe’djustgiveyouacoupleof?

Ohyeah,we’dgethalfadozenbreadrollseveryafternoon.

Andwhydidyougetthemthenratherthan?

Ohthey’djustcomeoutoftheoven,ohshewasgreat.Yes.

Andsothecaptainusedto?

YesthestewardusedtocomeovereveryafternoonthesametimeasIdid.So,

SodidthismeanthattheWarramungawasahappyshiptobeon?

Ohitwas,itwasaveryhappyship.

26:30 The,yesitwasveryhappy.The,ChristmasdaywespentoffthecoastofKorea,andofcourseweweren’tup,wethoughtweweregoingtogoupanddoadeliveryrunandcomebackagainbutwegotupthereandwegaveallourtuckeraway,allourChristmastuckerawaythinkingthatwe’dbecomingback,westoppedupthere,thentheotherscomeback.So,whenwegotbacktoJapan,wecalled

27:00 intoTokyo,andtheygreeteduswithaband,yeah,so.AndafterthatwewentbacktoKureanddowntoSasebo.

Whydidtheygreetyouwithaband?

Welleverybody,theyankseverybodythoughtanybodyawayforawhilethey’dgreetthemwithaband,itwasaYankee[American]band.

What’sitliketobegreetedwithaband?

27:30 Itwasverygood.

Andjustamatterofinteresthowdid,inthenavyhowdidyoucelebratesomethinglikeAnzacDay?

Welltherewasn’tsomuchasAnzacDayasitistoday.Buteverybodyclearedlowerdeck,paidattentionandstoodaminuteofsilenceandwentaboutitnormally.

28:00 AndwhatdoesAnzacdaymeantoyou?

Now?OhI’vebeengoingeverysince1952.ButIcan’tmarchnow,Iusedtomarch,butIcan’tnow.ButthenavyhadaceremonydownatNewsteadParkandIgodownthereeveryAnzacDaylistentothehourceremonycomebackhomeandwatchthemarchonthe,theysayIcouldgetajeepbutno,I,nowheretopark

28:30 yourcarnow,onceuponatimeyoucouldparkyourcar,butyoucan’tnow.

AndwhydoyouthinkAnzacDayhasbecomemorecelebratedinrecentyearsthansaythanthatsoonafterthewar?

Wellthe,tellingtheyoungstersmoresignificanceofitwhichwaswhenIwasgoingtoschool,theyneverusedtocelebrateitasmuchaswedid.Butnow,andit’sonlysincetheSecondWorldWar,

29:00 thatthey’vestartedto.The,AnzacOde[‘OdetotheFallen’]isverygood,butbeingnavyIrecite,becauseIbelongtoaMasonicLodgeandIrecitetheOdeeverymeetingnightbutIrecitetheOde,thenavyOde,andeverybodylikesit.

Andwhat’sthenavyOde?

29:30 Oh,‘theyhavenogravebutthecruelsea,aflowerslinetheirhead,aRussian(UNCLEAR)tothee,atombstone,avastlyoceanbed.’That’sthefirststartofitandthenofcourse,yougoonthen,itmakes

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youwanttogrowold,butthat’sreallysignificant,peoplelikeit.

Andtellmeaboutthefirst,

30:00 thefirsttripthatyoutookintoKorea?

WewentfromHongKong,nowedidn’t,wewentKurethenHongKong,therewasnothingdoingonthe,intheYellowSea,itwasonlywhenwewereontheEasternCoastthatwiththeYanksthatwereallygotstuckintothem.

Andwhat’sitlikefromthepointofviewofbeing

30:30 intheengineroomortheboilerroomhearinggunsfiring?

Youdon’ttakeanynoticeofit.TheonlytimeyounoticewereifyouwereworkingwiththeAmericanfleetandtheMissourifiredoverthetopofus,thebigsix-inchguns,andthatdisturbedusabit.Andbeingonthe,standingoutonthecoastandtheskipperwasaseniormanonthecoast,andhegotuptheYankeeskipper,hedidn’tlikeitbuthehadtotakeit.

31:00 Whatdidhesay?

Hejusttoldhimtobecarefulwhenhefiredthosebloodygunsbecausehenearlyeverybodyonboardwasdeaf.Ohyeah.

AndwhatwastheWarramunga’srelationshipwiththeMissourilike?

Wellwewereon,quitegood,thatwastheonlyincident.

Andhowcloselywouldyouworktogether?

Ohveryclosely.Veryclose.

31:30 AndhowlongdidyouspendalongthecoastofKorea?

Ionlyspentsevenmonthsupthere.

Inthatfirst?

Yeah,seemyDaddiedandtheyflewmebackfromJapanandwhenIhadacoupleofweeksleavetheysentmetoSydneyandIpaidofffrom,tellingalieIwenttoSydneyandIwasonthePlatypusdownthere,thentheyflewmebacktoBrisbanetopayoff.

32:00 Theyinvited,theyaskedmetostopon,Isaidno,andthentheysaidwell,yougotsixmonthstomakeupyourmind,ifyouwanttocomebackcomebackasschiefstoker.Isaidno.BecauseIalwayssaidifevergotmarriedI’dcomeoutofthenavy.ButIreallydidn’t,Iwasinthenavalreserve.18yearsinthenavalreserve.

I’lljustaskyouafewmorestuffaboutKorea.Could

32:30 youdescribewhatatypicalsortofdaywouldhavebeenlikewhenyouwereonthecoastofKorea?

Justgetupgoandhaveawatch,comeback.Thatwasall,itjustroutine,thatwasall,asfaraswewereconcerned.Theseamengunnersfired,butasfarastheengineroomanditwasjustroutineasfaraswewereconcerned.

Youmentioneditwasverycold.

Ohyes.Imaginetheguardrailwouldbeasthickasthatthere

33:00 withiceitwasthatthick.Andthenyou’dgetsomesmartseamanwho’dthrowabuckedofsnowdownthefanintakeandyouweredownthereandnextminuteyou’dbesoakingwetwithwater.Butweusedtogodownwe’dhaveaduffelcoaton.Welltostartoffwe’dgetdressed,you’dhaveunderwear,putontrousers,ashirt,

33:30 aleatherjacket,putyouroverallsonoverthetopofthatandaduffelcoatoverthetopofthat,andandbuildyourlittlecubbyhouseandstandthewind.Andthat’showcolditwas.

Howwouldyoubuildthelittlecubbyhouse?

Wellthesameasthis,canvas,exceptinside,becauseallthecontrolswouldworkfrom

34:00 there,sometimesyouhookedhimup.

Wasthereaproblemwiththemetalmaybefreezinginthecontrols?

No,no,theykeepitaboutzerotemperature.

Andwouldyousortofhuddleclosertotheboilers?

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WellIdidusedtoyes.Southcoast,you’dmakecoffee,passitdowntobelowit’dbecoldbythetimeitgotdowntoyou.

34:30 Soweusedtositbesidethepumpandputitthroughthedrain,turnthedrainon,keepithot.

Andhowaboutwhereyouweresleeping,howdidyoukeepwarmthere?

Withplentyofblankets,mostlyshipswerecloseddownputitthatway.Hotaircamefromoneoftheboilerroomsrightthroughtheship,

35:00 throughtheforepartoftheship.Andthatwastheonlyreasonitkeptcoolorkeptwarm.

AndwhenyouwerealongthecoastofKorea,wereyouatactionstationsoftenor?

Yeah,afewtimesyeah,the,you’dgoonceaday,usuallyinthemorning.

Andwhatwasyouractionstation?

WellIshootdowntheboilerroom,Iusedtobesteamchief.

Andexplainthis

35:30 jobtomeabitmore.

EverytimeitwasactionstationsIhadtodropwhatIwasdoing,godowntotheboilerroomandtakechargeofthethreeboilersandI’ddoitfromthenumberthreeboilerroom.

Andwouldtherebeotherpeopleworkingunderyou?

OhyeahI’d,astokeranda,aleadingstokerandtherewasthesameintheotherboilerroombutIcontrolledtheboilerroom,Itoldthemwhattodoandsoforth.

Andwhatwasitlikebeinginthatposition

36:00 ofcontrol?

Notroubleatall,youdiditjustautomatic.Wehad,notherewasa,noquitegood.Regulatedandbringtheothertwoboilersuptotheirlimitandthenyoubringyourselfup.AndoneincidencecomingupthecoastofKorea,

36:30 comingbackandoneofthenewFletcherclassYankeedestroyers,camepastandflashedthe,“SeeyouinKorea,”andweonlyhadtwoboilersonandtheskippersaiddown,hesaid,“Lashupthethirdboiler.Bodown,chief.”SoIwentdownandwewereinKorea…WhenwewereinSasebo,theYankscamesteamingin.Hesaid,“Hell.”Hesaid,“Icouldn’tbeatthatoldbastard.”

37:00 Hesays,“NowIgotanewone,Istillcan’tbeatit.”Ofcoursewedo42knots;that’sfastforadestroyer.

Andwhatwerethemenworkingunderneathyoulikeyourstokerandchiefstokerandthatsortofthing?

Goodblokes,goodblokes,theywereagoodcrew,there’snocomplaints,theywereagoodcrew.

Didyoueverhaveanytroublewithanyone?

Nonever.

37:30 Duringthe,oneofthereservewhenIwenttoreserves,IwenttoSydneyacoupleoftimes,andtheyusedtosayoh,ohwegotaboilerroom,soI’dgodownandthey’dsendmealltheyoungkidsandoneofthemsaidtothechiefstoker,hesaid,“OhIwanttogodownallthetimetothatoldchiefstoker.”Hesaid,“Heknowshowtosteamaboiler.”

38:00 Sothatwasit.Neverhada,ohthekids,Imadethework,showedthemproperlyandthenafterthatappreciatedit.

Anddidyouhavemanypeopleduringyourtime,sayintheWarramungaorsomethinglikethatcomingonboardbeinginthepositionyou’dbeeninwhenyoustarted.

No.Ohyoungsters?

Yeah.

Oh,

38:30 NotontheWarramungabecausetheymostlytrainedthedestroyercrewwhowentaway,butpreviousshipsyes,youngkidsthey,ohyeah.

Andwhatdoyouthinkthebestwaytoteachthemis?

Oh,kindness.ExplaineverythingtothemandIusedtosaytothemyou’reallowedtomakeonemistake,twoohthere’spressure,thesecondtimeyougetthetapinthebum.Yougottotoughenthemup.Theyalwaysrememberedthat.Yeah,theyenjoyedit.

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Okay,we’lljustchangetapesthere

Tape7

00:38 AtTarangauinNewGuinea,didyouhavetosprayareaswithDDT?

DDT,dieselyeah.Dieselonlyusedtosettleitdown,theDDTkilledit.We’dsprayTarangau,we’dgodowntoLaeand

01:00 sprayLaeandthenwe’dgofurtheruptoFinschhafenandspraythere.Thatwaswell,asixhourjob.Andthenwediditonce,twiceamonth.

Andwhatwereyoutryingtoeffect?

Welltokeepthemalariadownthatwasall.The,wehadabigtankonthebackof

01:30 alayloaderandIusedtodriveupafueltruck,we’dgoandgetdieselthereandwe’dspray,we’dputitintothetankandthenwe‘dputtheDDTin,mixitallup,pumpitintotheaircraftandawaythey’dgoandsprayit,they’dcomeback,we’ddoanotherone.

02:00 So,thatwasallitconsistedof.WehadtomakesurethattheDDTwasproperlydissolved.

DidyouseeanyeffectsoftheDDT?

Well,yeah,allourbedswe’dgobackandthey’dbecoveredwithdeadmosquitoes.Andtheyusedtoflythroughthewhitemosquitonetsandthat’sit,you’dcomebackandthere’dbedozensanddozensmosquitoesonyourbed.

02:30 Anddidyounoticeanyeffectswithsmelloryoursenses?

No,no.Notathing.Weevensprayeditonedaytheywereplayingcricket,theydidn’tlikeitbutwedid.TheRAAFdidit,notthenavytheRAAF.Yeah,niceandgreasytheballwas

Uponreflectiondoesthisseemabigdangerous?

No.No.They,

03:00 ohonetimetheRAAFknockedawingtipoff.Wentdowntoolowandclippedthetopofatree,gotridofawingtip.TheyflewawingtipupfromRichmondorsomethinglikethat,fitteditandawaysheflewoutagain.

WhatwasdoneforthesafetyofsprayingtheDDTforthepeopleunderneath?

None,none,itdidn’teffectanybody,ortheytrytotellusnowthattheDDTwas

03:30 effective,butGodIusedtobeupinit.Usedtojustworkinapairofshortsandsandalsandahatthatwasall.AndIwascoatedinit.

Sowhenyousayyouwereuptoyourarmsinit,youwereliterally?

Yeah.

WhywouldyouputyourarmsintheDDT?

Justtoseethatitwasmixedupproperly,putyourhanddowninatankfindaanygrain,nograin,right,

04:00 itwasmixed.

Andit’sneveraffectedyou?

No,never.Noneofthat,infacteventhoughIworkedinthisasbestosis,Iworked13yearsinthenavyamongstit.AfterIcameoutofthenavyIworked30yearsinthepowerstationsandtheywerebarepipes,asbestoscovered,notroubleatall.

Interesting,so,

04:30 inKoreawhatweremostoftheship’sworkthatitwasdoinginKorea?

No,mainlybombarding,thatwasallweweredoing.Soandso’sintrouble,rightoyougoupandthrowafewshellsamongstit,andthey’dberight.Likewhentheywerecomingthroughthetunnels,NorthKoreawascomingthroughthetunnelssoIwentupandknockedthemallastheyallcomethroughthetunnel.

05:00 AndwhenyouhittheNorthKoreans,wouldyougoandtryandseewhathappenedtotheships?

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No,notheywere,wellweweresevenmilesoffshore.Wewouldn’tgetanycloserthanthat.

Andwhatplaceswouldyoubombard,doyourememberanyspecifics?

No,alltheeastcoast,Iwouldn’tknow,Idon’tknowanynamesnow

05:30 unlessIlookedupthemapinanatlas,I’dtellyouthenbutIcan’tnow.

WasitintoNorthKorea?

Ohyeahtheywerenorth.Theywerecomingthrough,acrossthe,throughthe38thparallelIthinkitwas,that’swhenwegotthem.

AndhowdidthemenonboardfeelwhentheyheardthenewsthattheChinesehadenteredthewar?

Wellitnevereffecteditus,yeahtheChinesewereontheNorthKorean’sside.Noneonthesouthside,

06:00 theywereawelldefendedsouthoftheline,38thParallel.

Diditeverscareanyofthementhatitcoulddevelopintoathirdworldwar?

No,no,welltheywerepreparedforitifitwas.Theyallthoughtitwasgoingtobeathirdworldwar,buttheywerewellpreparedforit.

Howwereyoupreparedforthispossible,potential?

06:30 Thesameaseverybodyelse.Icouldn’thavecaredless,IhadajobtodoandIwasdoingit.

Hadthethingschangedovertheyearwiththewifeandasonnow?

Wellthat’strueyes,butIwasalittlebitcautiousthen,butmadenodifferenceitwasmethatwasfighting.Notthem.

And,

07:00 whatdifferenceswereyounoticingfromWorldWarIIwiththewayyouoperated?

Nodifferenceatall,the,seewewereonaWorldWarIIship,WorldWarIIcrew,andsamejustasnormal.It’sallIdid,nodifference,youwentdownbelow,youfiredyourboilers,cameup,wentdownbelow,firedyour.

Whatabout

07:30 ontheytypesofoperationsyouwereundertaking?

WellIdidthemintheSecondWorldWar,nodifferenceformewhatsoever.

AndyoutalkedwithNaomi[interviewer]brieflyaboutinteractionwithotherships,whereyouinteractingwithothernationalitiesonboardthoseships?

Notonboardtheships,nobut

08:00 individually,shiptoship,allwereworkedtogether,everybodyworkedtogetherhadtootherwisetherewouldbechaos.Just,Warramungawenthere,someoneelseissupportandsoforthsomadenodifference.

Andwhatwereyounoticingaboutworkinginaninternationalfleet?

Idon’tthinkitmadeanydifference,theremighthavebeenafew

08:30 languagedifferences,buttheideaisthesame,withthefleet,alltheships,theyknowthey’vegottogotopointAtopointBandsoforthandthat’swhattheydid.

Sowhowouldbecommandingtheordersfortheships?

WelltheWarramungahadacaptain,notthecaptainthecommander,theseniorcommanderonthecoast,helookedafterallthedestroyers.TheMissouri

09:00 hadarearadmiralonboardandhelookedafterthewholefleetandthatwasit.Nobodyjustwentaheadwilly-nillyanddidanything,itwasallunderorders.

I’venoticedyourlittletagontheWarramunga,what’sthatmean?

Ohthatisajustaships,it’stheWarramungaAssociation,wehadtheWarramungaAssociation,allcrewfromtheWarramungafromwhenshewascommissioned

09:30 tillshewasdecommissionedin’58,weformedanassociationandthisisoneoftheshirtsthatwebought.

Andwhatdoesthesymbolmean?

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Whatdoesitmean,there’ssomanyofthemIdon’tknow.‘WithHonour’.

Andit’sgotanAboriginalman?

YeahanAboriginal.

10:00 SeetheWarramungatribecomesfromcentralAustralia.Andthatwaswhythe,onthenewWarramungatheynameditWaramungu.Butthey’dhadbigfightoverit,wentouttothepeopleouttotheWarramungatribeandgotbacktheoldname.Theywerethe,thenewWarramunga’suproundthecoastuptheresomewhere.

Anddidthetribegiveanyapprovalor?

Ohyeah,theywantedtheoldname,

10:30 sameaseverybodyelsewantedtheoldname.Seetheymainlybethe[HMAS]Aruntasochangedthenameonthatonlybyacoupleofletters,butitdoesn’tsoundthesameastheArunta.Sowe’vegottheoldnameback.

Andwasthereaceremonyofsorts?

The,onthenamingof

11:00 thenewWarramungatherewasthepresidentoftheassociation,thesecretaryoftheassociationoneofthenavy,oneoftheseniornavywentoutwithit,thetribaleldersblessedtheshipandblessedthenameandthereforetheWarramunga’sgotthename.ThecaptainofthenewWarramungawentouttoo.Sothatwasittheystoppedit

11:30 sayingnew.

AnddoesthismakeasomesortofdifferencetohaveanavalshiptohaveaconnectiontoAustralianaboriginaltribe?

Wellthetribalclassdestroyer,theywerenamedaftertribes,seeofcourse,there’stheOrontes,theWarramungabuttheynamedtheBataanafterBataanupthereinNewGuinea,aftertheYanks.

12:00 But,Australiadidn’twantitbuttheynameditafterBataan.AndwellweallacceptedtheBataanbutweweren’tpleasedwiththename.

And,what,telluswerethereanyprocesschangesatallortrainingchangesor?

No,no,

12:30 it’schangednow,buttheyhadn’tinthosedays,it’sallthesameold,crewthesameoldjobeverything.

DidyougetsomeleaveduringthistimeinKorea?

No,weusedtogetnightleave,gointoKureorSasebo,getnightleave,thatwasall.

Wouldanyofthemenvisitanyofthelocalbrothels?

Ohsomewoulddo.

13:00 Whatwouldtheysayaboutthis?

Ohverycleanandwelllookedafter.Weusedtogotoone,holeinthefloor,therewasafireinit,weusedtositthereanddrinkbeer.That’sallweusedtodo,the,andsomeonewouldcomeormadamwouldsay,“Ohboys,boys,comein,comeit.”Hole’sthere,sittherewithyourfeetinthehole.Takeyourshoesoff,youhadtotakeyourshoesoff.And

13:30 they’dpolishyourshoeswhileyouwereinthere.Andifyouhadtoomanyyou’dstarttoliebackthey’dputapillowunderyourhead,buteveryonewouldhaveafewbeersandthatwasit.

Wasthatsomethingyouweren’tmeanttodo?

No,no,brothelswereillegalanywaybutwestillusedtogoanddoit.

14:00 And,didmanyofthemengetwomenthathookupwithpermanently?

No,no,notontheWarramunga,no,nobodyontheWarramungadid.

Anddidanyofthemengetsomeuniquetattoos?

Oh,yeahMarkDando,hewastattooedfrom

14:30 theredowntothere.Ofcoursehecouldn’twearshorts,notasfarasthenavywasconcerned.Butsomegottattoos,butnotalotoftheothers,I’macleanskin,butthedaysofsailorshavingtattooswentoutwiththearkIthink.Afewgotit,crazyenoughtogetitbutthatwasit.

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Howdidthenavalhierarchyfeelaboutthetattoos?

15:00 Ifitdidn’twhoabovetheneck,whereitcouldn’tbeseen.Theywereallrightwithit,oronthearm,somehadshortsleevesontheforearmsandsoforth,butitdidn’tlikeit,butaslongasitdidn’tshowabovetheneck.

Sowheredoesthisstereotypeofthesailorwiththetattoocomefrom?

Idon’tknow.

15:30 IthinkI,itusedtobeaknownthingforsailorstogettattoosbut,inmydaytheywentoutwiththeark.

Andso,didyour,onleaveorthroughothercircumstancesdidyoumixwithothernationalitiesoftheUN[UnitedNations]forces?

NotheonlyleaveIhadwasbackhereinAustralia.

ImeanlikethatJapanleavethatyoumentionedthat?

16:00 Noweallstucktogether,seetheCommonwealth,thehotelwastheCommonwealth–weusedtodrinkupinthebarthere,inthechiefs’mess.Ofcourseitwasmucheasierdrink,cheaper,andnotfartowalktogobacktotheship.Andtheothertimeswewouldn’tworry.

Wasthereanyinteractionbetweenthenationalities,thevariousnationalitiesthatyouremember?

No,no,therewas,alltheAustraliansdrunktogether.

16:30 Whatabouttrade,tradeamongst,tradingthings,swappingthings?

Oh,alltheybroughtwasgoods,theydidn’ttrade,theyjustbroughtit.

Andsotellushowyourservicecontinuedonhere,wasthereanysignificanteventsthatyouunderwentintheKoreantime?

No.

Anyclosecalls,orsituationsthat..?

Nowealwaysmanagedtokeepoutofit.

17:00 Ohyeahwedidrunagroundin,what’sthenameoftheriver,(UNCLEAR),oneday,shiftedthebuoysonusandpokedupournoseupinthemudbank,wegotoffwithitunderourownspeed.Buttheyshiftedthebuoys.

Whohad?

Theforeigners,theNorthKoreans.

17:30 Hopingtocatchsomeone?

Yeah.

Wasthatadifficultsituationtofindtheshipin?

No,noassoonasithit,theyknewtheywereaground,threwherastern,letthetidegetabithigherandbangoutwewent.

Werethereanydangersfromminesor?

Nostrangeasitmayseemno.Neversawonethere.Idon’t

18:00 thinktheyhadthenecessarynavalpowertodoit.

Sothecampaignwasarelativelysafecomparedto?

Ohyeah,itwasanarmycampaign,itwasn’tanavy,itwasanarmy.

Sotellusaboutwhathappenedat,fromherefromKorea?

WellIcamebacktoSydneythenIpaidoff,cameuptoBrisbane

18:30 andbeingachiefstoker,ithasdifferentqualificationslikea,acivilianticket,Ihadafirstclassboilerticket,Icouldgetarefrigerationticket,IcouldgetadieselticketbutIwentandgotafirstclassthenwentdowntothepowerstations.Iwentand

19:00 sawtheuniontheysaid,“Ohgoandseesoandsoatthepowerstations.”Iwasstillinuniform.AndIwentdownandsawhimandtheysaid,“Yes,wewantyou.”SoIwastoreportdowntoBulimbaPowerStation,Iwentdowntheretheysaid,“Whencanyoustart?”Isaid,“I’vestillgottimetodointhenavy.Ican’tstarttillafterEaster.”“Ohwell,comeassoonasyoucan.”AndIwastherefor30years.Ohwell,22yearsthereandIfinishedupatSwanbank.

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19:30 Andthenthe’74floods,Iwentback,theytransferredmebacktoTennysontohelptheyoutthere,andImovedbacktoSwanbankandpaidofffromSwanbankin’82.

Andsohowdidyoufeelaboutfinishingupinthenavy?

Iregrettedit,butitwasallIsaid,whenIgotmarried,ifIevergotmarried

20:00 I’dleavethenavyandIdid,keptmyword.Icouldhavestoppedonanddid20yearsifIwantedto,butnoIcameout.IdidallrightwhenIcametoo.

Whydidyoufeelthatyouhadtomakethatdecision?

WellImadeitwhenIwas,whenIwas,beforeIevergotmarried,Ialwayssaidthat.

Butwhy?

OhIdidn’tthinkitwasfairenoughforthe,thewomenweweremarriedto

20:30 putupwithityouknow.

Whatisitthatanavywifehastoputupwiththatyouseeasdifficult?

WellI’mawayallthetime,seeeveninthereserveIusedtogoaway,IwasrightwithworkbecauseI’dsaytimeofftogoto,yescertainly,becausethecommander,oroneofthecommanderswasinchargeofthepowerstation,ohyeschief,awayyougo.AndI’dgo,

21:00 but,noI,Ididn’tthinkfairenoughforthewomanto,Imean,no,I,Idon’tregretit,IsupposeIdo,butIdon’tregretitinaway.

Sotelluswhenyoujoinedupwiththereserve?

Well,beforeI’dleftthepermanentservice,IsaidI’dgointhereserves,sowhenIleftpermanent

21:30 serviceIwasinreserveandthenIwasinfleetreserveandthenIgottalkedintojoiningthenavalreservebecausetheywantedaninstructordownhereatMoretonatthetime.SoIwentdownthere,sotheysaidohwellyou’dbettertransfertotheRAN[RoyalAustralianNavy],RANR[RoyalAustralianNavyReserve],soIdidandthenafterawhiletheybroughtoutthefleetreserveandtheytransferredmebackagaintothefleetreserve.

22:00 Emergency,notfleet,emergencyreserve.Whereyougo,weallsignedpapersthatwecouldgoanytimetheywantedus.ItwasallrightwithworksoIdid.

Andsowhatweresomeoftheresponsibilitiesofbeinginthereserve?

Wellyouwereaninstructor,trainingwellkids,Isuppose,18,19,trainthemhowtobestokers,

22:30 andthenIneverhadtheresults,Ineverhadanybadresults,they’dgoawayintheshipthey’ddothejobthattheyhadtodo,they’dcomebackandsay,“Ohwehadagoodtime.Wedidsoandsoandsoforth,”andawaytheywent.Andthenmyownjob,I,wenttoSydneyacoupleoftimes.

23:00 IwenttoGardenIslandacoupleoftimes,IdidastintinBrisbanetwice,oncewaswiththe,in1970whentheQueencameoutandwesentacrewfromMoretonupthecoastofQueenslandtoberththeshipsupplytheguardandeverything.WewentasfarasCairns,thencamehome.

Sohow’stheQueentravelling,what’sshetravellingon?

23:30 Onthe,itwasn’ttheyacht,itwasthe…

TheQE[QueenElizabeth],isit?

Noitwasn’t,whatwasthenameofit,Ican’tthinkofit.

NottheQE2[QueenElizabethII]?

Noitwasabigship.No.Ican’tthinkofitatpresent,IwillthinkofitlaterbutIcan’tthinkofitnow.

Itdoesn’tmatter.

24:00 Butshewastravellingonaship?

Yeah,shewastravellingonaship,shecomeintoBrisbane,with(UNCLEAR).Andwhilstsomebody,oneoftheguardswasonandsomebodybumpedintohimanddrovehisboneintohisshoulder,theQueenwasquiteconcernedaboutit,shecameoverandaskedhowhewas.I,andprevioustothatIwas,in1954whenshecameout,

24:30 Iwaswiththeguardofhonour,theex-servicesguardofhonourrepresentingKorea,attheexhibition

Andhowdidthesehonours,howdidyoufeelaboutthesehonours?

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Welleverysubsection,RSLsubsectionwasaskedtoputtwopeoplein,oneKorea,iftherewasaKoreaoraSecondWorldWar,wellIrepresentedtheKoreabecauseIdidboth,bothwars.

25:00 And,I,shestoodaboutwhereyouaretowhereIwas,andveryattractiveandaveryniceperson.

Didshesayanythingtoyou?

NobutthePhillipwasdragginghisfeetandtherestofthecrowdhewaswaybacktheresomewhere,andshewasstampingherfootandIcouldn’t’helplaughingwhenIsawherstampingherfoot,Ithought,“Hello,you’reinabitoftrouble,Phillip.”Butshedidn’tsayanything.

25:30 Andsohowdidyouenjoyyourtimeinthereservesthroughalltheseyears?

OhIenjoyedit,lookanytimeIwaswiththenavyIenjoyed,evennow.WegoawayforweekendswiththeHMASCanberra-Shropshirecrowd,wejustcamebackfromBallinawhichtheyhaveabigweekend,usuallytheendofNovember,butitwasaweekearlythisweek,adinner,ortwodinners

26:00 andabarbecueandwecomehomeinthenight-time,wegoandhaveagameonthepokies[pokermachines]andsoforth.Weloseourmoneybutwesaveupallyearforit.

Anddoyoumissthesea?

IsupposeifIwasattachedtoitIwoulddoyes,butthenagain,no.Atonestageyouhadtobefinishedby45,butthey’veletitoutto50,55nowIthink.

26:30 And,soI’dhavebeenlongpassedit,butIenjoyedit.

Whataresomeofthemainlessonsyoulearntfromyouknowyourservice?

Idon’tknowbetolerant,listentoeverybody’sstory.Andjudgethemonthat.

Andwhat’ssomeofthebestmemoriesfromyourservice?

Allgoodmemories.Allgoodmemories.

27:00 Idon’tregretonelittleminute.

Whatabouttheworstmemories?

Youdon’tthinkofthose.

Ifyouweretothinkofthem?

No,youhearsailors,someofthesailorsbeenandtheydon’tthinkaboutit.Theygo,“Oh,whataboutwhenwewentashoreatsuchandsuch?”youknow.Theydon’tthinkofthetimewhentheywereintrouble.

Doanybadmemoriesevercomebacktoyouthatgiveyouabadfeelingor?

27:30 No,no,welltheonly,theonlybadmemoriesIhave,orit’snotabadmemorybecauseIdon’trememberit,waswewentashoreinLondonandwestoppedatoneplaceinthereandtheyhadabombinLondonandweallwokeupthenextmorningandalltheglasswasonourbeds.Sowedidn’thearit,theycouldbomb,thatistheonly,theclosestI’vebeentobeingknockedoff.

28:00 Andjustquicklywiththereserve,howmuchcommitmentdidthatinvolveinyourlifewhileyouwereworking?

Wellonenightaweekfromhalfpastseventohalfpasttenandafortnightayear.That’sallinthereserve.Noitwas,orbecauseIworkedshiftworkbecauseapowerstationandIdidn’tgoeverynight,

28:30 buteveryTuesdaynightthatIwenteverytwoorthreenightsamonth.

Andcouldyoubeputbackintoservicefromthereserve?

Ohyeah,seeIwaspermanentservice,wellanyreservistcanbeputinto,toseeiftheywanttoright,yougo.ButIvolunteeredassoonasIjoinedthereservesIvolunteeredbacktoseeiftheywantedme.

29:00 Diditeverlooklikely?

No,notnow.Icouldhave,Isupposetherewasonestageitcouldhavebeen,butitpassedoverandtheydidn’twantit.

Whatwasthatfor?

OhIwenttoKorea,ohwenttoKorea,uptoNewGuineatobringbackanairforcecrowdupthereand

29:30 ontheSydney,butitcouldhavebeen…Butno,theygotoveritnotroubleatall.

AndIguessIcometoafinalquestionunlessyoucanthinkofanything,andthatisdoyouhaveanyfinalthoughtsonyourservicetimeand…?

Page 58: Australians at War Film Archive

No,Ineverregrettedonebit.I’veneverregrettedit.Ienjoyedlifewiththenavy,didthejobwell,andthatwasit.

30:00 Yeah,tonsoffun,goodtimesandbadtimes,butallofthegoodtimesoutdothebadtimes.

Great,thanks.

INTERVIEWENDS


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