kangaroojustice.orgkangaroojustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/1998-11-03-Gaud… · Web view--- Upon commencing at 10:00 a.m.--- Accused present--- In the absence of the jury

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3rd, 1998--- Upon commencing at 10:00 a.m.--- Accused present--- In the absence of the jury

MR. DANDYK: Yes, Your Honour, if I might indicate

I've given a copy to counsel and the Court and the

Reporter, a copy of a book of authorities in

relation to a view. The Crown is requesting a view

of the vehicle, the Cadillac, as was done on the

last trial. I spoke to or at least I spoke to

counsel, I guess I haven't got Mr. Mr. McKechnie's

view yet. Ms. Mulligan has indicated since she just

became aware of it, then that's fine because I only

became aware of it when we left court yesterday, so

in any case I prepared it this morning, as I

understand it Ms. Mulligan wishes to consider her

position so I'm not sure there's even going to be

an objection at this stage. So I'm simply

indicating for the record I presented everyone with

copies, they can review it, and I believe the cases

speak for themselves in any case.

THE COURT: All right. MR. DANDYK: Maybe Mr. McKechnie can indicate if he

has any position yet or if he wishes to consider his position.

MR. McKECHNIE: I wish to consider my position, Your Honour.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

(In the absence of the jury)

1889

MR. DANDYK: Thank you.(In the absence of the jury)

1889

MR. COOPER: In terms of the physical timing, Your Honour, the arrangements have been made to have the vehicle here for tomorrow morning at 10:00, no earlier than that. We couldn't possibly do it before then, so perhaps that assists my friends in taking their position, hopefully it could be done by the end of today, their positions having been taken that is.

MR. DANDYK: So maybe we can address it after lunch. THE COURT: All right. Okay.

MR. DANDYK: We can speak to counsel, that's fine.

THE COURT: All right.

Bring in the jury. MR. COOPER: I should indicate, Your Honour, that

after the remainder of the video has played I'd like to present Mr. Gaudreault with some slides and I tried yesterday to set both things up and they wouldn't work so if I could just have a five-minute break.



1889

--- Upon resuming in the presence of the jury at 10:05 a.m.

THE REGISTRAR: Are counsel satisfied that all

members of the jury are present?

MR. COOPER: Content.

MR. McKECHNIE: Content.

THE COURT: Thank you.

Mr. Cooper? MR. COOPER: For the record, Your Honour, I'm

resuming the video and as soon as it starts I'll read out the footage number.

THE COURT: All right. MR. COOPER: Actually I think I'll back it up a

little bit because I put it in this morning and I bungled it. It's at 2:23:01.

--- Videotape played

DENIS MARCEL GAUDEAULT, previously sworn

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER:Q. It's now at 2:26:12, Mr. Gaudreault. That was

your voice I take it? A. Yes it was. Q. And what were you indicating? A. That it didn't take that long to get out there.--- Videotape played MR. COOPER: I can indicate, Your Honour, that there

is not another audio passage until after 2:34:00 so we're going to take six more minutes or approximately eight more minutes but I think

D. GAUDREAULT, in-chf(Cooper)

1902

it's important to play the tape through at least once.

THE COURT: I agree.--- Videotape played MR. COOPER: Q. Mr. Gaudreault, that was --- A. Me. Q. One of those voices was yours? A. Yeah, Rick Riddell and Heather Lamarche. Q. Okay. And what were you indicating, sir? I'm just going to back that up a little bit first. Okay, I'll start this again at 2:34:37. --- Videotape played

Q. Who is the first person to say "Wait a minute", sir? A. It was me.--- Videotape played Q. Okay. What did you say just then, sir? A. "Everything looks the same at night".--- Videotape played Q. I'm stopping at 2:35:46, sir. That was your voice, one of those voices was yours? A. Yes it was. Q. And you're indicating something keeps popping into your head. What is it, sir? A. That Laporte sign. Q. Okay. I'll continue. I'll try and back it up.--- Videotape played Q. That was your voice, sir? A. Yes it was.


1902

Q. And what road are you referring to? A. Like this driveway here, I guess. Q. At the moment it's at 2:35:57. You're indicating to the right of the screen in the bottom right quadrant? A. Yeah. Q. I'll back up a tiny little bit again.--- Videotape played Q. I'll just stop it again, sir, momentarily, 2:36:52 for the record, and what are you indicating, sir? A. That I dropped them off around there somewhere. Q. Okay.--- Videotape played Q. I'll just stop it there at 2:39:01, sir. That last long passage is your voice? A. Yes it is. Q. Thank you.--- Videotape played Q. The video has now ended.

Mr. Gaudreault, there was a long passage there, just before the last few lines, was that your voice? A. Yes it was. Q. And whose house were you describing? A. Rob Stewart's house. Q. Okay. MR. COOPER: As I indicated yesterday, Your Honour,

I'm sorry, earlier this morning, if I could just have a few minutes' break to switch from this media to the slide projector.

THE COURT: All right. It takes a little while to set up and I don't think we can use the same


1902

plug or something, we'd blow out all the lights in the city or something, at least in the courthouse.

--- Whereupon court recessed at 10:30 a.m.* * * * * * * *

--- Upon resuming at 10:45 a.m.--- Accused present

DENIS MARCEL GAUDREAULT, resumes on the stand THE COURT: Mr. Cooper, the Court Reporter has had better days than today so please don't speak over the witness or do anything else of that nature. All right. Thank you.

MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honour.

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER: Q. Mr. Gaudreault, yesterday I asked you a couple of questions but the video was playing.

MR. COOPER: Oh, just a moment. We have a new inter-preter today, Your Honour. Just in the event that the interpreter is needed I'd ask that she be sworn in.THE COURT: All right.

(Nathalie Mackenzie, Official Interpreter, sworn, wasmade available for the witness)

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. COOPER: Thank you again, Your Honour. The other housekeeping matter I had, and I left it

right here but still managed to forget it, is if I

could file the video we've all just watched for the

last two days as the next numbered exhibit, please.


1902

THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit 88, Your Honour. THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

EXHIBIT NO. 88: Videotape MR. COOPER: Q. Now Mr. Gaudreault, yesterday I talked over the video during a portion where there wasn't any conversation on it and I asked you about the time of year in which the video was taken. I'd just like to review that when there's no dis- tractions, by that I mean the tape machine itself. This was taken on June 12th, 1990, correct? A. That's correct. Q. June 13th actually. In any event it was taken in June 1990. Obviously it was summertime; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. And it was taken -- well it starts at about 1:32:00 or 1:29:00 in the afternoon and it goes through to something after 2:38 and that's in the daytime as we all saw. A. That's correct. Q. Now on Tuesday, the 16th of January, 1990, if you could compare first of all the weather conditions. A. Well the weather conditions, it was slippery, --- Q. Yes? A. --- it was nighttime, it was dark. Q. Yes? A. It didn't seem that far and now they're making me take a ride during the summertime and there's full of leaves and the road is not slippery and everything looks the same.


1902

Q. Okay. The road in question, sir, you indicated earlier that you had been to Mr. Stewart's house. A. Yes. Q. Had you been further east on Queen Street? A. Not that I recall. Q. Okay. A. But I've been there once with Jamie, but we --- Q. Been where, sir? A. Up down by -- through the satellite guy, the guy that owns that satellite, --- Q. Yes? A. --- well when we went down there we took -- we went down Montreal Road, jumped on the 17, went up to the flicking lights in Cumberland, then we -- well Jamie was driving, we turned and -- turned and went back towards Mr. Stewart's house, but we were only seeing a guy that was a weed grower. Q. A which? A. A marijuana dealer or a supplier in weed. Q. Oh, a weed grower, a marijuana dealer, is that what you said? A. Yeah. Q. When you went to the satellite dish person's house that was -- you were westbound, --- A. That's correct. Q. --- as you just described it, from a different direction. A. Yeah. Q. Is there a passage at the road there between the satellite dish place and Mr. Stewart's place on


1902

that part of that road, have you ever been on that part of the road, between the satellite guy's house and Mr. Stewart's house? A. I don't --- No. Q. I'm sorry? A. No. Q. No? A. No. Q. Now you had, according to your evidence, driven that road on January 16th and again you did it on June 13th. In between those times, sir, had you ever been in that area? A. Can you --- Q. In between January 16th and June ---

A. No.Q. --- 13th ---

A. No. Q. --- were you on that road? A. No. Q. Where were you? A. I was in B.C., in Victoria, B.C. Q. Now sir, you've indicated that when you went there on Tuesday, the 16th of January it was dark and winter? A. Yeah. Q. Now on this video you make a remark about the Laporte signs. A. Yeah. Well that sign kept popping up in my head because I remember when he told me to -- when we were driving and it was nighttime, all I could remember is just something lit up.


1902

Q. Okay. I'm going to show you some slides, sir, and some still photographs.

MR. COOPER: The still photographs as a group, Your Honour, are Exhibit 71 and I can't claim the slides are in the same order but we'll go through that.

Q. First I'll show you the still photographs, Exhibit 71, sir, and as I'm showing you those just look through those without comment, if you would, please. A. Okay, well now you'll see why. Q. And now I'm showing you what is now slide number 1, yes, slide number 1 in carousel --- THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit number 18. MR. COOPER: Q. --- Exhibit number 18.

These are new additions to the carousel, Your Hon-our.THE COURT: All right.MR. COOPER:

Q. And I'm showing you now slide number 2, Mr.

Gaudreault, slide number 3, slide number 4.

Just one moment if I may, please. Slide number 5, slide number 6. I'll stop it there

for the moment, sir. Do any of these slides resemble what you saw on the 16th of January? A. Yeah, it does. Q. I'll just turn it off. I couldn't hear you, sir. A. Yeah, it does. Q. Does one of them make it ---


1902

A. Well it's all ---Q. --- resemble it more closely than the others?

I can through them again. That is number 1, number 2, number 3, number 4, number 5, number 6. Do any of them bear more of a resemblance to what you saw than some of them? A. No. Q. Now I'm going to continue further. MR. COOPER: For the record, Your Honour, these are

the still photographs that are Exhibit 71 depict Queen Street facing eastbound.

Q. And now I'm going to show you number 7.

For the record, Your Honour, 7 through 12 are the

opposite direction. Q. That's number 7, Mr. Gaudreault? A. That's right. Q. Number 8, number 9, number 10, number 11 and number 12. Do any of those slides, sir, resemble what you saw when you were headed ---

A. Back?Q. --- back?

A. That's right, it does. Q. In particular, sir, about the lighting, is one of them closer than the other? And I'll go backwards. That's number 12, 11, 10, that's 9. I'll have to start that over again.

MR. COOPER: You'll notice I think, Your Honour, Mr. Dandyk had professional help when he was doing this. I'll start at the beginning. Number 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12.


1902

Q. In terms of lighting in particular, Mr. Gaudreault, are any of those more accurate as a representation of what you saw than the other ones? A. Well that was on the way back, there wasn't --- Q. Yes? A. Yeah, it is. Q. Are any of them more similar to what you recall than other ones? A. It looks to me like that night. Q. Okay. MR. COOPER: I suppose, Your Honour, I'd ask that

those 12 slides just be added to Exhibit --- THE REGISTRAR: 18. MR. COOPER: --- 18, please, as slides number 1

through 12. THE COURT: I assume there are no slides 1 to 12

that are already in Exhibit 18. MR. COOPER: No, those slots were empty, Your

Honour. The existing slides seem to start around 58 and go through to --- 39 to 58.

THE COURT: All right. Okay. Thank you.

I was just thinking, Mr. Cooper, as you tried to

manipulate that mechanical device, digital must

just be beyond you, the VCR must be beyond you. MR. COOPER: And I wish that was ..... I was just

about to put my hand on the light switch, we'd probably all be plunged in the dark.


1902

Q. Sir, once again I'm showing you what is Exhibit 85, the Bendix King walkie-talkie telephone. You indicated, sir, yesterday that there was a device you could put in the phone so that only you could hear ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- the calls.

A. It's on one of these -- one of these plugs here. Yeah, one of these. Q. I'll just indicate what you're saying for the record.

A. And the other one is for a charger.Q. Okay. You're indicating a number of plug-type

things, as you're looking at the phone it's on the left edge. Okay. Sir, while you were speaking on this phone, or any other type of phone, how did you describe what it was that you wanted to order or talk about? If you wanted to purchase some -- have some drugs sent over, how did you describe it? A. Number 1 and number 2. Q. Okay. Was there ever an occasion where --- A. You'd go from one frequence (sic) to another. Q. Okay. No, that wasn't my question. Is there more to that answer, though, as long as we're there? A. Well I've done it a few times with Rob. Q. Okay. Was there ever an occasion, sir, where you would actually mention cocaine or hashish? A. Yeah, well I was -- I had my brother-in-law Rick Gravelle at the house --- Q. Yes?


1902

A. --- one night and he sort of like said over the -- "When is the hash gonna get here?" and I was talking on one of these phones, Rob heard that and all hell broke loose, he wanted to beat him up, cut him off, he blew the top because you're not allowed to talk like hash or say coke over that, you're only supposed to say it by code, but he was talking to me, like, and I was talking to Rob on this. While I'm talking to Rob my brother-in-law happens to mention "When's the hash gonna be here?", then Rob says "Who the fuck is that?", so I said "Well that's Rick", then he started freaking out on him. Q. When you say Rick, who do you mean? A. Rick Gravelle, my brother-in-law. Q. And what, if anything, happened about this? You're saying Mr. Stewart freaked out. A. Well he wanted me to cut him off, he wanted to cut him off. Q. And did you? A. Well no, he's one of my -- at the time he was one guy that I was giving some to and he had people under his wing which I had basically part of Rockland so I didn't want to lose that. Q. Was there any follow-up to that with respect to Mr. Gravelle? A. I don't recall at this time, no. Q. Okay.

Now, sir, yesterday you indicated that Mr. Stewart kept his money in a leather case or a suitcase towards brown and red colour. Do you remember saying that yesterday? A. Yeah. Q. And you indicated I think as well that it was his cellular telephone.


1902

A. Well it's like do you remember when the cellular phone, I don't know if the jurors have seen those or anybody, when the first cellular phone came out it came out in a suitcase, that's how they were advertising the cellular phone, like it's easy access, like the businessman, you walk around and the phone rings, you open up your suitcase and there it is, you got the phone, it's mounted in the suitcase, but beside the phone that's mounted in the suitcase there's a big, like, empty spot that you could put papers and that stuff and that's where he kept the money. MS. MULLIGAN: Your Honour, I wonder, Mr. Cooper

mentioned I think what he's about to do, to me, yesterday ---MR. COOPER: Yes.MS. MULLIGAN: --- and I indicated that I would need some time to consider that. I just need about five minutes and I wonder if the jury could be excused for a moment at this point in time.


--- Whereupon the jury retired at 11:04 a.m.


1902

--- In the absence of the juryMS. MULLIGAN: Your Honour, in fact what I need is time to take instructions from my client, I indicated that to Mr. Cooper yesterday, and we just didn't get a chance to review the photographs and for me to take instructions.


--- Whereupon court recessed at 11:05 a.m.

* * * * * * * *

--- Upon resuming at 11:15 a.m.--- Accused present

--- In the absence of the jury and witness MS. MULLIGAN: Your Honour, this issue arose

yesterday and I will concede Detective Lamarche reminded me this morning that these photographs may have been photocopied and they were disclosed in the Denis Roy file. She's nodding her head. I certainly did not anticipate that a photograph of a briefcase found or located I guess in my client's house - I'll pass it up to Your Honour so you can see what I'm talking about - during the Denis Roy suicide would become evidence, so I hadn't turned my mind to the issue. Mr. Cooper showed me the photo yesterday.

My concern is that this -- my understanding of the

facts is that this briefcase was opened and looked

at and photographed inside my client's house

without any prior judicial authorization for that,

there was no search warrant in other


1910

words, and my client was not home at the time as I understand it. So in those circumstances I would certainly object to its admissibility, I'll go on to argue the propriety of the search with respect to that and the leading of that evidence.

The photograph itself, I mean Mr. Gaudreault's already described the briefcase and the Bendix King phone and all of that, and there is a briefcase with a phone in it. The photograph itself doesn't add anything to Mr. Gaudreault's evidence except that it is prejudicial with the money sticking out of it and the other things on the table just ---

THE COURT: Oh I'm sorry, I guess it didn't register. I didn't notice the money. My eyes are going.

MS. MULLIGAN: And that's money that would've been -- there's a 50-dollar bill, there's a bundle of bills. I understand there was $ 10,000. or something in the briefcase at the time of the Denis Roy suicide.

THE COURT: M'hmm-hmm. MS. MULLIGAN: If all we're doing is a descriptor of

the briefcase, which I submit he's already done in his evidence, what was in that briefcase at the time of the Denis Roy suicide is not relevant to this case and it is prejudicial, in my submission, where we have a search in a house that was not authorized by a search warrant, then that raises the issue of s. 8 in the Charter of Rights, and I don't know


1910

what's best to do about that, whether that's some-thing, given that the jury is here and we don't want to hold them up, whether that's something that can be delayed in Mr. Cooper's examination and we can argue it more fully, or whether it has to be done right at this moment, I'm not sure what his position is on that.

MR. COOPER: Your Honour, that's why I gave Ms.

Mulligan notice yesterday is that it was going to

happen today. I assumed when she didn't tell me

anything different that there was no objection. In

part she did indicate that she wanted to review

some photographs with her client, I misunderstood

which ones, and this was one of them apparently.

However, if Ms. Mulligan wants to argue the

constitutionality of the search, Your Honour, I'd

like to have her call evidence as she normally

would in these sorts of situations and we'll

determine that thumbnail sketch, of course, is

there's been a homicide committed inside the

dwelling house and the police are there to

investigate it. A suicide is a homicide by law. The

police are there investigating it. Mr. Stewart has

fled the premises and this is what's on the table.

And in terms of the prejudicial aspect, if we go there, Mr. Gaudreault described this perfectly - that's where Mr. Stewart keeps his money, in with the cell phone there's lots of room for the money and other stuff there - he gave a description that


1910

is absolutely perfect. It's not prejudicial when it's corroborative


1910

otherwise we might as well say everything after Mr.

Gaudreault is going to be prejudicial because it's

all corroborative of Mr. Gau- dreault, a vast

majority of the evidence that will be called in the

next six to eight months will be corroborative of

Mr. Gaudreault. That doesn't mean it's prejudicial

at all.

Mr. Gaudreault describes everything about that

photograph perfectly, he's never seen the photo-

graph. He's describing the contents that's

absolutely typical of what Mr. Gaudreault says, it

corroborates him in every respect, in respect about

the phone, in respect about the case, in respect of

the cash. On those facts it's right on the money.

If it's really corroborative that doesn't increase

or create any prejudicial component. In fact, in my

respectful submission, there's no balance to be

made on that argument, and if there is it falls way

in favour of the corroboration but that's only if

we cross the constitutionality bridge of course

and Ms. Mulligan hasn't called any evidence on

that and that's what I'd like to do right now if

that's where we are.

Ms. Mulligan also just a few moments ago, when I

wasn't paying attention, indicated that it's not

relevant, the Denis Roy suicide is not relevant.

It's very relevant, it's already been referred to

by the witness. Mr. Gaudreault's state of mind when


1910

he initially informs his sister and then the police

about Mr. Stewart's


1910

organization is extremely relevant and this is one

of the things that motivates him in terms of his

fear of Mr. Stewart, his flight, his fear of Mr.

Stewart after Mr. Stewart and Mr. Mallory go to

Sylvie Gravelle's house and Richard Gravelle's

house. It's inextricably linked and it has to be

explored to that extent. We indicated on the record

that the very same investigators on this case

looked into it and found that it was a suicide,

there's no prejudicial component to that.

And getting back to one of the cores of the Crown's case, Your Honour, the Crown's theory, that this organization was worth killing for, this establishes Mr. -- this helps establish Mr. Stewart's longevity in this drug business, he's been over hill and dell in this business and he's still going, he's still surviving, Mr. Gaudreault touched on that with respect to the reason for this suicide, according to Mr. Gau- dreault, about the contract on Mr. Roy and Mr. Mallory and Mr. Stewart and how that contract was lifted and then they were back in business better than ever after Mr. Roy's demise. All this is very important, Your Honour, in assisting the jury to understand the context, the factual context, in which all of this takes place, all of this, including Mr. Gaudreault's coming forward to the police, but if we were to get into a search and seizure argument we need evidence to deal with that and I'd ask Ms. Mulligan to begin calling it.


1910

MS. MULLIGAN: I'm certainly prepared to do that. I understand Detective Riddell is in the building, my client is here. Unless the Crown is conceding that there was no search warrant I guess I can call my client to say there was no search warrant, he wasn't shown anything and then the onus would shift to the Crown, but I don't know, I was in Your Honour's hands as to the timing of that and I was inquiring as to whether Mr. Cooper absolutely needed to do it right now or whether it could wait for argument maybe at the end of the day so that we don't take up the jury's time but I don't know what Mr. Cooper's position is on that or Your Honour's position on that.

MR. COOPER: Well my position is we do it now. MS. MULLIGAN: I guess then it's up to Your Honour,

Your Honour's position on when we do it. I'm content to wait until the end of the day but, you know, obviously if it's crucial that this photo go in now then Your Honour may take a different viewpoint.

THE COURT: Mr. Cooper, perhaps you would outline to me why this is a separate thing to which no arguments were addressed really, why is it essential now rather than a bit later in the day. In other words, perhaps why not let the jury go home at 3:00 o'clock or something like that and work 'til now and then let them out early rather than have them sort of hang around all day to do this before lunch or something.


1910

MR. COOPER: I mean, Your Honour, that is true the jury has to wait while we argue this, however I know where I'm going to be by the end of the day and it's nowhere near here, I'm going to be with Mr. Gaudreault going into the murder itself, so it's not really a practical time. I don't want to interrupt, I'm going to start the meat and potatoes of the case today and I'd like to continue with that, Mr. Gaudreault's evidence, and I'd like to continue with that without hopscotching around. It's merely a presentation thing but as in a restaurant sometimes presentation means a great deal. I don't have any stronger reason than that but that's an important reason to me.

THE COURT: All right. MR. COOPER: And as I said of course I assumed there

wasn't any objection because I showed Ms. Mulligan the photograph yesterday.

THE COURT: Yes but you thought she was seeking instructions on a different picture at the same time.

MR. COOPER: Yes, Your Honour, there's photographs that were taken of a car with a trailer hitch on it which will now, as I indicated to Ms. Mulligan, be going in through Officer Lamarche, that group of photographs, rather than Mr. Gaudreault, so that's not an issue to be dealt with right now.

THE COURT: All right. Well I think I would sooner have the jury hear

things now rather than have them cool their


1910

heels, it's the first time they've had to do it in the trial so far. I'd sooner have them hear other evidence and then you can go back to this and if it seems disjointed to them, although you don't get the benefit of continuity you gain the benefit of the point, so what you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts as the English say. Okay.

MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honour. THE COURT: So we'll have the jury back, please.


1910

--- Upon resuming in the presence of the jury at 11:25 a.m.

DENIS MARCEL GAUDREAULT, resumes on the stand

THE COURT: Mr. Cooper?


EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER: Q. Mr. Gaudreault, we're going to move on to something else for the time being. I'm producing to you, sir, what was Exhibit 125 on another occasion and asking you to examine this if you would. Just one moment, please. Just one moment, please. Keep that other one I just mentioned for later, Mr. Gaudreault. Instead I'll show you what was Exhibit 127 on another occasion and this is a photocopy, sir, of a document you edited on the 12th of December, 1991, your personal phone book? A. Yeah. Q. And I'd ask you, sir, to review it, in particular I'm going to ask you about things on the ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- page I've opened ---A. Okay.Q. --- under the page heading "Q.R".

A. That's Rob Stewart's cottage phone number. Q. And could you repeat that slowly for the record, please. A. That's Rob Stewart's phone number. Q. Yes, but could you repeat the phone number, sir? A. 457-1061.

Q. Okay.


1946

A. That's at the cottage. Q. And do you have any other numbers for Mr. Stewart there, sir? A. The phone number at home 744-5401. Rob again, that's the pager number 239-9859, 665. Q. 665 is what, sir? A. That's my -- that's the complex 665 Hochelaga. And 769-6266 that's his cellular phone. Q. Let me see that for a moment, please, sir? On the opposite page, sir, there's an indication of Rick Mallory? A. That's his pager number 594-1606. Q. Okay. And on the next page, sir, which is labelled "S.T", can you indicate -- there's just initials to start with? A. That's his -- 837-2628 that's his phone number in Orleans. Q. That's whose phone number, sir? A. Rob Stewart's. Q. Yes? A. And 388-9805, I don't recall that at this time. Q. Perhaps we can just describe the rest of the book, sir. Is it fair to say there's a number of different people's phone numbers in this book? A. That's right. Q. And as I indicated before there has been some editing that you assisted in --- A. Yeah. Q. --- a number of years ago? A. Can I see this again?


1946

Q. Certainly. Thank you. MR. COOPER: If that could be the next numbered

exhibit, please. THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit 89, Your Honour. THE COURT: Thank you.

EXHIBIT NO. 89: Personal telephone book (Denis Gaudreault)

MR. COOPER:

Q. Sir, you also indicated that pagers were used

in this organization. I'm showing you something that was Exhibit

11 on another occasion, it's a Metro Alert pager and on the back

of it there's a number 787-7090 applied with a thing, tape of some

sort. Do you recognize this type of device, sir? A. No. Q. Okay. A. Because that's not the pager Rob had at the time. Q. How does it differ, sir? A. Eh? Q. How does it differ? A. Well it had no arrows on the side and it was one that you pushed the button on top. Q. Your telephone book, sir, that I just made an exhibit a moment ago, Exhibit 89, when does that date from, sir? A. 1989 to 1980 (sic). 1990. Q. 1989 to what? A. 1990. Q. Thank you.


1946

Okay, I'm going to get back to questions, sir, about the drug business, particularly Mr. Stewart's drug business. What were the two products, sir? A. Coke and hash. Q. And the hash, how was that ---

A. Number 2.Q. --- packaged?

A. Packaged? Well, --- Q. Was there any wrapping on it to start with? A. Red wrap. Q. And what do you mean by "red wrap"? A. It's like the paper that they use for fire- cracker, when you buy a bunch of firecrackers you have that red paper that goes around it. What happens is the hash used to arrive from Montreal and when it arrived from Montreal it used to be brought at a location that he had a 25-ton press made by Scott Killeen so what we did is we took, you know those cigars, those candy cigars like the pipes, it's got the red end on it, it's the licorice stuff that you eat, each box weighs 450 grams roughly about, or 454. We used to take one of those boxes per one kilo of hash and cut it with it, like a big blender. Then we had steel -- he had some steel plate that after it's all blended you put it in there and you repress it so you could add up weight to your hash, so instead of having a kilo that you just picked up, basically instead of having two pounds you got three pounds now because you added up a pound of this stuff in there. That's how you'd make some of your profit. Because I remember one time we cut a slab in half and one of the cigar was like -- one of those pipes was engrained in the hash, like it wasn't mixed very well because I had complaints about it and


1946

when you taste it you could tell when it's repressed because it's got this aftertaste and a sweetness to it. Q. What happens to the red ends? What happens to the red ends of the --- A. Well you take those off right away, like you don't leave those there. Q. How do you mix it, how does that process go, how does that happen? A. You got to heat it up, --- Q. How do you do this?

A. --- heat up your hash. Eh? Q. How do you do this? Could you just describe it? A. Well it's just like a bread mixer, you know the thing that mixes the bread, it's the same thing like that, or you could repress it. Like, first you got to heat up your hash, and then you got to heat up the licorice, then when you make it you could mix it by hand, but as soon as you put it in there then you just wheel down the press and the press has got a steel plate on top of the jack, as you lower it into this box it compacts it, like press it together. Then after this you take it out of the press, you use that -- like sheets of that paper and you just wrap it because at one point we started calling it, he had a guy making stamps for it, Romeo and Juliet. Q. And what do you mean by stamps? A. Well, the hash has got to be branded before you could sell it, like you have different kind of hash, because I don't know -- I don't think you guys ever seen that but ..... You have to have a name for your hash, like it's the same thing if you get a kilo from Afghanistani (sic) they'll


1946

get a kilo of hash but on it some of them were marked "Freedom to Afghanistani". Then you have gold seal and you have red seal. The gold seal would be hash that's wrapped in a gold paper with the gold seal on it and it's the same thing with the red-wrapped hash, but the gold seal hash is the better hash than the red hash -- than the red-sealed hash. Like you have one quality of hash and some you'll press with more and some you'll press with less. Q. And what physically does this seal look like? A. Romeo and Juliet? Q. Yes. A. Romeo and Juliet. Q. What is it made out of, sir? A. Eh? Steel. Q. Steel? A. Yeah. Then you dip it in like ink, like a gold coloured ink, and you just dip it in there and just slap it on your hash and you stamp it. Q. Okay. A. It's hard to explain things when people have never seen it. Q. Did you encounter anyone with the similar wrap and stamp as Mr. Stewart's? A. Yeah, Chris. Q. Chris who, sir? A. I don't know his last name. He worked for Rob. Q. Okay. Other than Mr. Stewart and the fellow who worked for him, Chris, did you ever encounter that type of hash?


1946

A. Sure we did. The hash, once you press it, it's all over the streets, it could be here in Ottawa, it could be in Montreal, it could be in Quebec City, but it hits all over the place, once you start repressing it with those stamps it's like your own brand name on the hash, like this is your product so if you ever get ripped off -- there's no way you could find your hash if it's got no stamp, but I rip him off for 19 keys and go to Vancouver and the next thing you know there's 19 keys of Romeo and Juliet in Vancouver it could only came from one place, it come from him - Rob Stewart. Q. What's the furthest afield you ever saw this Romeo and Juliet hash? A. In his basement of his townhouse. Q. What's the furthest away from Ottawa that you ever saw it? A. When it comes out it's all over the place. Now the stamps are out, people will duplicate it after a while to repress their own hash and use other people's stamp to make them because when you pick up a slab of hash you could cut it where the stamp is and get somebody with a brain that could copy the stamp and then you just remake it and then when you buy hash you just redo the same procedure but some people use different cuts, like you could use different things to mix your hash, but then you come out with the stamp and just stamp it, wrap it in that red wrap and just send it out on the street. Q. Okay. The other product was cocaine. A. That's right. Q. Was that diluted? A. When cocaine came to my place it was in a vacuum sealed package, not cut yet, which if it came from Colombia that's where the stamp would be on it, and they're all


1946

sealed packages so the percentage on it at the time you could get between 96 to 97 percent, but as soon as you start taking like a quarter pound, like 100 grams out 1,000 grams, you're just cutting it down by a percentage of it, so by the time it hits the streets you would have maybe 88 percent, 70 percent, but if you go 70 percent that would mean you would take 200 grams, 200 grams of cut you just cut it from 96 to 76 because you just used 200 grams of cut for your kilo and you reblend it and then there's ways you could remix it and we stick it together like a rock if you got the right people to do it. Q. Okay. What are you talking about when you say 96 percent? A. Well 96 percent, a hundred percent is pure coke and it's crack, you can't do anything with it. When you get it to a certain level like 96, 97, it's already been -- like it's modified to the snorting powder. Q. Snorting? A. Yeah, you could inject it with a needle, you could snort it up your nose. But once you freebase it, okay?, and you take the impurity out of it, like all the cut, the buff that's in the coke, the only way to do it after that is to smoke it, you can't inject it because it's like a piece of rock, a hard candy, the only way to dissolve it and to consume it would be by smoking it. The way to smoke it is you take some ashes, put the ashes in the pipe and you put the piece of freebase on top of the ashes and you light up your match but not directly to the piece of crack because you have to turn it into a smoke because it kind of melts as you're going down, and after you smoke it so much in the pipe you could go clean your pipe and get the residue from the crack cocaine, which is freebase, out of the pipe and you could smoke


1946

that. It's the same thing like when a person smokes a joint, you get nearly to the end of the joint and you stop, that's called a roach. You take the roach, you put it in the box and later on you use a whole bunch of roach to re-roll one joint. Q. Okay. When the cocaine arrived you said at your residence? A. Pure. Q. And how was it wrapped? A. It's vacuum sealed, it's a plastic with some kind of -- like it's like Saran Wrap, if I recall right, Saran Wrap, it's vacuum sealed. I don't know when you make a sandwich you vacuum seal your sandwich so no air gets in there, well coke is done the same thing, so if you ever have to lose those packages and throw them overboard you don't want water to accumulate in the package, that's why they float. Q. Okay. A. But a bigger bundle will go down to the bottom. Like if you have 100 kilos, no way 100 kilos is gonna float, it's gonna go straight down. Q. Did Mr. Stewart himself dilute his cocaine? A. Sure. We all do. But Rob was leaving basically that to us, sometimes when money wasn't coming in too well he'd do it, but mainly it was all to us, coming to us straight. Q. Okay. A. Because even at one point we hadn't seen that coke for years because that coke used to turn into like a silver colour and it was called China White back then. So what happened when you freebased it the first thing that I had one of my dealers telling me, he says he hasn't seen that coke in years because it turns to a silver colour instead of turning to a yellow colour. Like when a piece of freebase is done to smoke


1946

it usually it's yellow, it's got sometimes little dots, like air pockets in there. But when some stuff that a long time ago, quite a few years ago, we used to get silver colour which that stuff there just go like a jelly, a silver jelly, and it's just like a Hershey, those little things you eat with the little thing on top, when it hits the bottom, because it wants to drop because of the weight but there's always this little line on top, just like those little things -- chocolate things you eat there, you open just like that. Q. You indicated that the hashish was diluted with these licorice cigars or licorice pipes. A. Yeah. Q. What was the cocaine diluted with? A. With lactose. Lactose is a baby tranquil- izer. Well, you could buy 1,000 grams because when you do coke you're on a speed rush, when you're finished you go looking for it but -- then they were using lactose to sort of like when you finish doing your line that you don't have the urge as much as doing it without lactose in there, when you're snorting anyhow. Q. You indicated yesterday, sir, that Mr. Mallory was employed by Mr. Stewart and you were the paymaster for Mr. Mallory. A. Well I was told to pay Mr. Mallory because I wasn't coming up with my money and that's the only way Rob could see his money coming at the time, so basically I was paying Rick for being Rob's muscle. Q. Okay. Did Mr. Mallory collect, other than the $200. a day, did he collect? A. At first, yeah, but after a while sometimes I didn't have no money so I just gave him some coke. At one point he came over to my house with his brother and Sauvé.


1946

Q. Okay. You indicated yesterday there were five times you met Mr. Sauvé and you said three of them were at your house? A. Yeah. Q. The three last ones you said were at your house. One of them is this incident you're describing now? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And could you give us a description of what happened on that day, please? A. Well he came down to -- like he came earlier in the morning I had no money and I told him to come back later on in that day. He came down later on in that day, he had his brother with him and Jim Sauvé, and I didn't have no money so I just gave him a quarter ounce of coke. Q. Okay. Who's the "he" that you're referring to, sir? A. Rick Mallory. Q. Okay. And what was his brother's name? A. I don't recall at this time, but I could tell you that they were staying at the Dynasty hotel on Montreal Road, - I might not be saying the word right - well it's a restaurant anyhow, and behind the restaurant it's all connected together there's a chain of hotels, it's at the corner of St. Laurent and Montreal Road, across the street from the Brewers Retail at the time which would be beside the IGA at that time and before the Brittany's apartment. Q. Did Mr. Mallory ever collect from Mr. Declare in your presence? A. Well, one time he was ordered to go collect off Jamie and he got all upset and he hit the wall in my house


1946

so I don't know what happened after that, like he didn't want to get involved, like he knew us all, eh? Q. The "he" is Mr. Mallory? A. Yeah, Mr. Mallory knew us all, so ..... You could collect off people you don't know, no problem, but when you start collecting off people that you've seen before and you've done time before that's a little different, and people you like also. But all those orders were always given by Rob, so Rob was the one -- he's the boss, we have to do what he tells us to do. Q. In terms of -- you indicated at one time you didn't have any money so you gave Mr. Mallory some cocaine. A. Yeah. Q. Did you ever see Mr. Mallory use cocaine? A. I'd have to say no. Q. Did he ever come to your house for cocaine, other than this one occasion? A. A few times but that one time, that one occasion I remember. Q. And in terms of cocaine use do you know if Mr. Stewart, did you ever see him using cocaine? A. Well, every time Rob came into my house he couldn't get high on it but he hit the washroom. Every time he came up to my place like the first thing he would come through the door, the first thing he would do is come through the door and he'd go right -- make a right because the washroom is right there, even at Jamie, when he went to Jamie usually he hits the washroom right away, so we don't know what's going on in the washroom, only Mr. Stewart could answer that. Q. Sir, in December 1989 did you owe money to Rob Stewart?


1946

A. Yes I did. Q. I started to show you this earlier, sir, and now I can actually show it to you, it was marked Exhibit 125 on another occasion, and I'm asking you -- it's a little, for the record, a little black soft covered book with a wire spiral binding and it's maybe two inches by four and a half inches. I don't know what the metric size would be. I'd ask you to examine that for a moment if you would, sir, and then I'll show you something else. Can you identify that document, sir? A. This is a book of payments of people working for me, payments being made to Rob for coke and hash, and what people owe me, the amounts that's been coming in money-wise, and some autograph that I put in there, added to this book. Q. Okay. Is this the original document, sir? A. That's a copy. Q. Okay. Could you just explain to the jury how this copy came to exist? A. I made this copy at home in Victoria, B.C. because I had the original and then I came to court. Q. Go ahead, sir. A. Well I didn't come to court, I turned in a copy to the police. Q. And what did you represent the copy as, sir? A. As the original. Q. And was that true? A. No. Q. You indicated that you copied it at home. The portions that are in the book, sir, were they copied accu-


1946

rately? A. Yeah. Q. From the original? A. To what I wanted them to see. Q. Okay. A. You see, if I could explain for a minute. Q. Please. A. What I did is I was here at the -- before and I went back to Victoria on a week -- it was I guess around Thanksgiving weekend, because I left the original at home and when I got home the original wasn't there, and then I'm blaming two people for that, for the original to be gone from my house. Then on my way out of Vancouver there was, not the two accused's lawyers in the courtroom, but I met another defence lawyer at the airport with a big grin on his face, so it's all I could tell you, and the book went missing. MS. MULLIGAN: Your Honour, --- THE COURT: Yes. MS. MULLIGAN: --- I object to that strenuously.

That has nothing to do with anything --- THE WITNESS: What do you mean? We're talking about

the black book. THE COURT: Well, members of the jury, you basically

heard it all. There's an old Latin maxim post hoc, ergo propter hoc, after this therefore on account of this, and maybe we'll just leave it at that.

MR. COOPER: Q. What I'd like you to explain if you would, Mr. Gaudreault, is how the original book was created and how the book in your possession right now was created.


1946

A. After a while I start getting late in my payments, and the original book that I had is I used to write it on a piece of paper first, okay?, then I'd copy it from the piece of papers and put it into my book maybe the next day, maybe a few days after but it would always go because first of all I'd copy it, like, okay, if you give me $ 900. okay, on this day he gave me 900 bucks it's on a small piece of paper, later on when I'm not so high I'll transfer it to the original one, and then after a while I started getting so late in payments and -- well, Rob didn't believe that some of the money was coming in so he asked to have it autographed, to sign it all the time, and so we got Rhonda, which was my girlfriend at the time, taking care of things. When Rob came over and we gave Rob let's say 5 thousand or 10 thousand bucks he'd mark "R.S.", he ini- tialled it to make sure that he received the money; if there was no initials he never got the money. That's the way it was. Q. Okay. And after you left Ottawa what did you do with this original black book? A. Well I left it on top of the -- I think it was on top of the fridge or on top of the cupboards. Q. Did you ever have occasion to show that black book to anyone? A. Well sure, I brought it down the first time -- I couldn't figure out because the first time I ever met Heather Lamarche and Lou Okmanas I brought the original there and I give him the original and then they give it to back to me and says "Hang on to it until we want it or we ask for it". Well, at the time I didn't think but after a while that was kind of a stupid things (sic) to do, I give him the original and they gave it back to me, so of course I'm gonna make a copy


1946

because now I know that they want it. Q. Okay. A. And don't forget at that point I still don't trust the cops, even today I don't trust them. Q. At any point, sir, did the police request that book again? A. Sure they did. Q. And what did you do when that --- A. I made a copy of it but I only gave them what they wanted because there was numbers and names and stuff in there I didn't want them to see. Q. What sort of things, sir? A. Eh? Well some people, some dealings with some people. Q. So the book that you gave to the police was accurate but not complete. A. That's right. It was like taking a photocopy of the book and making it into a photocopy so wherever he signed and he marked his R.S. I marked it myself but then, like, I did it myself by hand and kept the original, then the original went missing. Q. And what did you do with the copy, sir? A. I turned it in to the police. Q. Okay. A. Well, I think even Okmanas knew that wasn't the book that he had looked at at one time because, see, this one has like a steel thing, the other one was a little bit higher and it was like wrapped all the way around with none of these things around, it was just like one of those things you have from school, like you could go up to a place and buy them, just like a little book.


1946

Q. When you presented the original one to Okmanas, sir, did he say anything about it? A. Yeah, "Keep it. When we need it we'll let you know." Q. What attempts, if any, sir, did you make to try to find the original book? A. Oh I got pretty upset over it. I got upset at Rhonda and I got upset at Garrett because I don't want them to take it but, like I said, once I met that lawyer --- Q. We won't get into that theory, sir. Another thing I'd like to show you. Oh, the original black book, sir, what sort of time frame did it cover? A. Because -- well after a while when you do so much dealing there's so much entry in the book like so much debts, so much money coming in, they fill up quickly so after they fill up quickly you just tear the one and toss that one out. But that one there I started that one I think it was in, if I'm not -- I think it was around October, November, but it could've even been late November, that's when I started, I remember starting that one then, and then right up 'til the day I left. Q. Now was there something in particular that the police were interested in, a certain page of that book, sir? A. Yeah they were because at one point I was up in a hotel room up in Brockville with Rick Riddell and I called back home because I didn't know the dates that I gave 10 thousand to Sauvé, --- Q. Yes? A. --- so I called back Victoria, B.C. and Rhonda gave me the dates from the original book, that's before


1946

it went missing, she gave me the dates, I said "Well when did I pay him?" and she told me it was January 19th, 1990 that he was paid $10,000. Q. As a result of receiving that information did you tell the police? A. Yeah, I told Rick Riddell it was on the 19th that I paid him and he marked it in his statesment (sic) I guess and that's before -- I think it was before the drive or just -- yeah, I think it was before the drive. Q. At the time that Rhonda gave you this information, sir, had the original black book gone missing yet? A. No. Well no, because then I went back home after that because we were still working on another couple of -- well, on a project to purchase some drugs from Mr. Stewart. Q. You indicated "we" - we'll cover that later, sir - but who are you indicating ---

A. "we"?Q. --- when you say "we were working on a

project"? A. That was the Ontario Provincial Police drug narcotics squad of Jim Miller, a weasel. Q. Now at the point, sir, when you present the copy book to the police, misrepresented as if it was the original, do you trust the police, sir? A. I still don't trust them 'til today. Why should I trust them? They're a bunch of idiots. Q. You've already indicated, sir, that the original black book was something that you wrote in after you had written stuff -- figures on a scrap piece. A. There was -- after I went down to Victoria there was never no other entry because I wasn't doing nothing


1946

no more with Stewart so I just kept it for safekeeping, and I had something else too but then later on I was told that -- about the disk. Q. We'll get to the disk in due course. MR. COOPER: Your Honour, the next thing might take

a little bit of time. Ms. Neville indicated a break would be appreciated.

THE COURT: Fine. No problem. Let's have a break for

a few minutes, members of the jury.

--- Whereupon court recessed at 12:04 p.m.

* * * * * * * *--- Upon resuming at 12:24 p.m.

--- Accused present

DENIS MARCEL GAUDREAULT, resumes on the stand THE COURT: Mr. Cooper?

MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honour. The first thing I'll do is make the black book the

next numbered exhibit, please. THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit number 90, Your Honour.

EXHIBIT NO. 90: Black book

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER: Q. Now Mr. Gaudreault, why did you not give the police the original black book? A. At the beginning? Q. Yes. A. Because they never asked for it. They just had a look at it and they gave it back to me. Q. And why did you decide to withhold it from the police?


1946

A. Because I didn't want to be short shafted. Q. What do you mean by that? A. Well, I wanted a name change, I wanted things for me to come forward. Like, it's hard to give your a life away because they want to know what you know and you're giving your life away and you can't really trust them because I never did in the past, a lot of things in the past they give me a lot to never trust the police for, like I'm a criminal and that's why I didn't give it to them, I didn't trust them. I wasn't gonna give them everything. Q. What was your intention regarding the black book, the original black book? A. Keep it. Q. What were you keeping it for? A. Because I thought at one point that as soon as it was gonna come down Stewart would be running to make a deal. Q. Okay. I'll show you something else now, if I may. It's a manila envelope from the Ministry of the Attorney General Criminal Court Office in this building, previously numbered Exhibit 66, and it contains, sir, a number of loose papers. Perhaps I'll just ask you to move your water. The papers are all paper clipped together and I'd like you to examine those, sir, if you would. A. Yeah, those are papers that I kept that I was writing on it before transferring it to the black book. Q. Okay. And can you determine whether these particular papers were ever used for that purpose? A. Well yeah, they were.


1946

Q. Okay. Now one sheet in particular, I'm showing you one page, sir, let me just count them because they're not numbered, the sixth page in --- A. Yeah. Q. --- on the right and there's a marking at the top "D.", "J."; is that correct? A. That's December, January. Q. Okay. And what is represented on this particular page, sir? A. On the 5th I gave $ 4,000. for the coke. On the 10th 1750 for the hash. Q. Who are you giving this to, sir? A. Rob Stewart. Q. Okay. A. On the 12th 1100 for the coke to Rob Stew- art. On January 16th, do you want me to stop there or keep going? Q. You can keep going. A. January 16th $ 2,000. R.S. to myself. On the 18th 1900 for number 1, that's money that came in. On the 18th 1360 for the hash. And on the 19th $ 10,000. to Jim Sauvé. Q. Okay. Now, you've indicated this is a copy. A. That's right. Q. How does that particular page relate to the original book? A. It would be the same thing in the original book, in the same order. Q. Now I'm asking you, sir, to look at one page in particular and I'll just try and describe it for the record. It has a number 2 on it with a circle --- A. Yeah.


1946

Q. --- on the top left corner of the left side of the page. I'd ask you to look at that page, sir, and is that how you kept it in your possession? A. No, it was folded. Q. Okay. You could refold it if you wish. A. It was folded but it's pretty old so ..... Something like this. Q. Okay. You've folded it up into an eighth, into eight sections; is that correct? A. Yeah. Q. And one of these sections in particular that I'm interested in, sir, would be, as you're looking at the number 2 in the top left corner, would be the second down from the top on the right-hand side ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- and I'm just going to -- before we review

the contents I'm just going to show the jury which one we're directing our attention to. Now that's where -- sir, what does that little box represent, what's the initial or the letter, whatever it is, at the very top centre of it? A. That would be January. Q. And what is the actual thing that's down there? A. Eight hundred. Q. I'm sorry? A. R.S. Q. At the very top, sir? A. That's January. Q. It starts with J. for January? A. Yeah.


1946

Q. Okay. And what is indicated, sir, on the right-hand side of that column? A. 750, 865, 2500, 1200 and 10 thousand. Q. And what does that represent? A. Payments. Q. And how does that --- There's numbers down the middle column as well, sir. A. Yeah. Q. And what do they represent? A. Adding. Q. I'm sorry, the middle column, the numbers are --- A. Well there's one that says "R.S.", the other one the three dates, 17th, 16th and 19th. Q. That's what I was referring to as the middle column. A. So on the 17th $ 2500. was given to Rick Trudel. Q. Yes? A. And the balance was given to Rob Stewart. Q. Yes? A. On the 16th I took -- instead of taking two thousand I took 1200 off and I pocket the balance of the money. Q. Yes? A. And on the 19th 10 thousand to Sauvé. Q. Okay. Now just to relate this, we're going to go over these documents at a later point in time in some detail I think, but how does that, if at all, relate to the original black book?


1946

A. Well that's the original right here because I had to write it here first before I transferred it to the book ---

Q. And when you say "here" ---A. --- because, see, it's hard to walk around or

do things with a big book in case you lose it you lose everything so it's easier to have one of these, plus I had a small leather folder that I used to keep it in there, so when you pull it out, it was something like this, then if you want more numbers like you just go around and fold it and you have another blank spot and you write what you're supposed to be writing in there and that's it. Q. Okay. Now, how did the police obtain these papers, sir? A. They were here in court, I brought them here in court because I had a big dispute with the defence lawyers about losing the original black book and doing -- forging another black book and meanwhile they got the original copies in court. How more original do you want to be? Q. Now included in this package, sir, there's a couple of cigarette packages as well, the back of cigarette packages; is that correct? A. That's right. Q. And --- A. Those are more numbers of fronts and money coming in, money owed. Q. Okay. And what year are the calendars here, sir? A. '89, '90 and '89. Q. And what type of cigarettes do they come from?


1946

A. Those are DuMaurier regular, that's the kind I used to -- not DuMaurier, Players filter regular, those were what I was smoking at the time. Q. We'll get back to these at a later point. I'll just put them all in the envelope here so they don't get messed up. I'll just throw the paperclip in after. I need one sheet back here because I'm going to show you something, sir. I'm just taking out the one sheet and that's the one that you made reference to with the ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- January markings.

MR. COOPER: Your Honour, I have copies of that par-

ticular page and I'd ask to give them to the

counsel and the jury. Not enough for counsel?

MS. BAIR: The only reason there aren't enough for

counsel is because I'm assuming they have them all.


MS. BAIR: There is one for Your Honour.


MR. COOPER: Your Honour's will be here shortly.

I'll just pass these to the jury. I'll pass up mine for the benefit of the Court,

Your Honour.

THE WITNESS: There's a chunk of hash stuck to this paper.

MR. COOPER: A full chunk. THE WITNESS: Right there.


1946

MR. COOPER: Q. What I'm going to ask you to do, sir, is to

attempt to determine how much money you owed Mr. Stewart at the time of your departure. Now, do you recall, sir, making these similar calculations several years ago? A. Yeah. It was 14,800 and some dollars I think, around there. Q. I'm showing you, sir, a document that is actually dated December 18th, 1989 but that's not the date that you wrote it, is it, sir? A. No. Q. Okay. But this is your writing? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And these are calculations ..... What are they? I should ask you to describe them. A. Okay. I owed Mr. Stewart, when I left, for cocaine $ 14,855. and I owed him for the hash was $ 11,610. Total money owing was $ 26,465. Then I took a kilo and a half when I left, that was 8250. Q. I just want to slow you down there a little bit if I could, Mr. Gaudreault. MR. COOPER: Your Honour, I wonder if I might have

the copy with the holes back and I'll exchange it, if I may?

Q. For the benefit of everyone that has a sheet, if the number 2, sir, is put down in the bottom right- hand corner so we're all oriented the same way.

A. Which page are we at?Q. Oh, you don't ---

A. This one?


1946

Q. Yes. Yes, if you --- THE COURT: Which is north, the 26 hundred on the

left is the top of the sheet? MR. COOPER: Yes, correct, Your Honour. THE COURT: Okay. MR. COOPER: For this orientation we have to turn

it, twist it, then fold it --- THE COURT: I understand that. MR. COOPER: --- and whatnot to get to different

places. Q. Sir, you indicated just now that you owed Mr. Stewart $ 14,855. for what? A. 14,855, that's for cocaine. Q. Okay. And is that -- that same figure is the third one down from the top right as we're looking at this document? A. That's right. Q. Okay. And how much did you owe him for hashish? A. 11,610 bucks. Q. And that same number appears as the total on a column that's on the left -- top left corner of this page as we're ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- looking at it; is that correct?

A. That's correct. Q. Okay.

A. That's it.Q. Now those two numbers you've totalled to be

26,465 you just indicated. A. That's correct.


1946

Q. Okay. Now there's some additional figures added to that? A. Yeah, when I left for B.C. I took a kilo and a half of coke at 550 a gram. Q. A kilo and a half of what, sir? A. Of hash. Q. Hash? A. Sorry. Yeah. At 550 a gram. Q. Yes? A. It added up to 8,250, for a balance owing of 34,715 bucks. Q. Okay. And --- A. Then minus the $ 10,000. that I gave Sauvé on the 19th. Q. Yes? A. And 2500 to Trudel, Rick Trudel. Q. Yes? A. And 1200 to myself, made it the total owed to Stewart was 21,880 bucks. Q. There's also a figure of 865, sir, on the 1200. A. That's the money I kept to myself off the 2,000 that he told me to take off. Q. So the final calculation of what you owed Mr. Stewart? A. It's 21,880 bucks. Q. How long had you been behind in your payments to Mr. Stewart, sir? A. About four months, five months, somewhere around that area. Q. Okay. And is this by the time you left?


1946

A. Yeah. Q. And you left when, sir? A. I left in February, I think it was the first week of February --- Q. Okay. A. --- of 1990. Q. Okay. Now you indicated earlier that, yesterday I believe, that initially Mr. Stewart would be at your residence twice a month to --- A. Yeah, well ---

Q. --- collect ---A. --- the payments, eh?, in two weeks, what-

ever you get on a front two weeks later he'd come down and pick up half the money, that's how it started. Then after that at the end of the month he'd come down for the balance. Q. Okay. Did Mr. Stewart, in December and January as you've indicated you're in the hole, did Mr. Stewart ever tell you what his financial situation was? A. Well he owed a lot of money, money had to be paid. Q. Did he indicate who he owed the money to? A. Michael Vanasse. Q. At some point in time, sir, was there any change in Mr. Stewart's requests for your debt? A. Well yeah, they were tired of assholes owing them money and pretty soon there'll be some sample being made. Q. Okay. When was the first time you heard this, sir?


1946

A. I heard it quite a few times. In December, in January. I think November is when he started, December was a little stronger, in January it was really strong. Q. Okay. You've mentioned Mr. Vanasse a number of times, sir. When did you first meet Mr. Vanasse? A. About a week before Christmas, around the 19th of December, 1989. Q. Okay. I'm going to get that calendar again. MR. COOPER: Has that already been made an exhibit?

THE REGISTRAR: Yes it is. Exhibit 86. MR. COOPER: Thank you. Q. Before we get into this, sir, I'm just going to make sure I give all these exhibits back. MR. COOPER: Your Honour, with respect to the loose papers could they be made the next numbered exhibit, please? THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit number 91, Your Honour. THE COURT: Loose papers. All right.

EXHIBIT NO. 91: Loose papers MR. COOPER: And with respect to Mr. Gau- dreault's

calculations, Your Honour, could that be the exhibit number?

THE REGISTRAR: 92, Your Honour.THE COURT: All right.EXHIBIT NO. 92: Calculations made by Denis

Gaudreault

MR. COOPER: Thank you.

One moment's indulgence, Your Honour.


1946

Q. One little bit of housekeeping here, sir. On the black book there's some numbers in the bottom right corner, sir, and it's just --- A. $ 47,360. minus 40,160, balance 7200. Q. And what does that represent, sir? A. Payment from Lorne Houston. Q. And Lorne Houston --- A. Was my partner. Q. Okay. I just need one more second, please. Okay. Now I'm flipping to the second -- well I'll flip to the last page, sir, there's some phone numbers there that we've already referred to from ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- elsewhere?

A. That's Rob's pager 239-9859, mobile is -- cellular phone is 769-6266, and his home in Orleans from the videotape there is 837-2628. Rick Mallory is 594-1606, number 32. Q. What does the number 32 indicate, sir? A. I think it was a panic button back then or panic number. Q. Okay. The page just preceding this, sir, it says the name Lorne Houston? A. 749-0560, and his pager was 598-9775. Q. And you've already indicated who he is, A. Yeah. And André 745-8360, that's the guy that lived in Manor Park back then. Q. Manor Park? A. Yeah.


1946

Q. I'd just ask you to flip to the other side there, this would be the third last page, counting individual sides of pages. A. That was Yves Larcher, the guy that I gave the gun to, --- Q. Yes? A. --- the .223, his home phone number 744- 3429 and his cellular phone is 769-6652. Wendy Bova's phone number was 748-1435 and Rob Bova's number was 744-5401. Q. We don't need to get through everything in the book, sir, but there's other phone numbers in there of people ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- that you were communicating with?

Okay. We were about to discuss, sir, you were about to tell the jury about your first visit from -- the first time you saw Mr. Vanasse. A. Yeah, well, I was sleeping, Rhonda came up and she woke me up, she said Rick Mallory was downstairs with somebody as I woke up. I came downstairs and Michael Vanasse was there with Rick Mallory. Michael Vanasse was asking me what was the problem, how come I couldn't come up with his money and I wanted to talk to Rob and he says "You talk to me. You owe me the money. He owes me the money." He says "I want to be paid". Then I wanted to talk to Rob, so Rick Mallory paged Rob. Then Rob called back a few minutes later. I wanted to talk to Rob but Rob was too busy and he says he'd talk to me later on that night and it never happened, he never came over and he never called. Q. Okay. Can you indicate when this was, sir, perhaps in relation to ---


1946

A. That was ---Q. --- Christmas 1989 for example?

A. --- a week before Christmas. The 19th of December was a Tuesday, in the morning. Q. Okay. A. And I think Rob was on his way down to Montreal, I'm not too sure if that's -- because Rob used to go to Montreal either Monday or Tuesday, every Monday or Tuesday they had to go to Montreal to make a payment. Q. What do you mean by "they"? A. Him and Michael Vanasse, or himself, or Vanasse himself. Q. On this particular incident, sir, Mr. Stew- art was not there. A. No. Q. Just Mr. Mallory and Mr. Vanasse? A. That's right. Q. And did this discussion take place in your house or outside ---

A. Yeah, it took place ---Q. --- or somewhere else?

A. --- in my house, in the living room downstairs. Q. Okay. What was Mr. Mallory's demeanour to start with? A. Well he's the muscle, he's there for that, that's why he's there for, he's being paid that money for ---

Q. Did Mr. ---A. --- because if Vanasse would turn around and

tell Mallory 'okay, do him right now' he'd do it because he's the bigger -- he's Rob's boss, which Rob was my boss, so


1946

if Rob told Rick to do something or told Denis Roy or told Jim Sauvé to do something they'd do it but sometimes they didn't, when he wasn't around they -- sometimes they wouldn't do things, but having Vanasse there, the number one there, because he's one step lower than Frank -- well, he's one step lower from the top and Vanasse at the time, well, what can I tell you, the guy owns a DC 9, what the fuck. Q. What was Mr. Vanasse's demeanour? A. Get money. Q. By demeanour, Mr. Gaudreault, I mean .....

MR. COOPER: Perhaps we could have that word trans-lated.

THE WITNESS: Qu'est-ce que ça veut dire demeanour?THE INTERPRETER: You're going to have to explain it another way I think or I'll have to look it up.THE REPORTER: Comportement.THE WITNESS: Son comportement? Oh, he was mad, upset because Rob had lots of fronts out and the fronts weren't coming in.MR. COOPER:

Q. Okay. And Mr. Vanasse indicated to you --- A. Well he was basically checking to make sure that maybe he was, like I'm just assuming that, maybe he was checking to make sure that Rob was aboveboard, like when Rob told him 'I can't get no money off them assholes so we have to do something' so maybe he didn't believe him and he wanted at first hand to see that it was true that we owed him the money because I couldn't figure out why the hell he'd come down to my house for ---


1946

Q. Did ---A. --- because I'm not working for him, I'm

working for Rob. Q. Okay. A. But Rob was, who knows. Q. We don't want you to speculate, Mr. Gaudreault. A. No. Okay. Q. Was this a pre-arranged meeting? A. No. Q. And what happened, what happened just before Mr. Vanasse and Mr. Mallory left? Did they leave together, first of all? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. In what? A. In his -- he had a black Ford Bronco, a full-size Ford Bronco, the big ones. Q. Who do you mean by "he", sir? A. Michael Vanasse. Q. Okay. While we're talking about that vehicle, could you describe that in as much detail as possible, sir? A. It's a two-door, it's like a K-15 Blazer, that's a full-size Blazer truck, like the big trucks with the mudders and Vanasse had one, a Ford Bronco which is a big thing just like a K-15 but it's the big Ford, not the little Ford. Q. What do you mean by a mudder? A. Well you could go off-road with them in the bush. Q. Was there anything optional in this particular ---


1946

A. Yeah, well he had a rack with a bunch of lights on top. Q. On top of what? A. The hood --- Comment je dirais ça? On the roof. Q. Okay. A. So when you go out in the woods at night you're well lit up. Q. Who drove away? A. Michael Vanasse. Well it's his truck. Q. Could you describe Mr. Vanasse, give us a physical description of the man, please? A. He's a little short, he's got square glasses, chubby, real chubby, like super chubby, like Mr. Butterball. Q. How did he dress? A. In jeans, jean jacket. He's short and fat. Q. Okay. Did he have any other vehicles, sir? A. Yeah, he had a Porsche. Q. Do you recall any other vehicles? Just the Porsche and the --- A. Bronco. Q. --- Bronco? A. I'm sure he had more but all I know is his Porsche and his Bronco and his DC 9 at this point. MR. COOPER: I think, Your Honour, I'm prepared to

go to not an unrelated topic but a different one. THE COURT: Fine. We'll come back at the regular

time.



1946

--- Upon resuming at 2:15 p.m.--- Accused present

--- In the absence of the jury THE COURT: Yes, bring in the jury. MS. MULLIGAN: Just before, with respect to the

photograph I've had an opportunity now to speak to Sergeant Bowes who was present and Detective Riddell and I'm content that it be shown to the witness, there's no issue as to the constitu-tionality of the search as far as Mr. Stewart is concerned.

THE COURT: All right. MS. MULLIGAN: Mr. Dandyk had also asked me about

the viewing of the car. With respect to that,

subject to some incidental issues such as, and I

think Ms. Bair indicated that as far as the

shackling and the handcuffs I wouldn't want Mr.

Stewart and Mr. Mallory to be in that position

downstairs and I understand special security can be

made for that purpose, and I understand that on the

last occasion nothing was said down in the garage,

it was all said up here, which is fine, so

therefore I have no issue with the viewing with

those caveats.

And finally --- THE COURT: Well the technical difficulties we

thought last time, if I remember right, it was very difficult to take the Reporter and all that.


1952

MS. BAIR: But I believe that we did take Madam Reporter and I believe there was one utterance, but ---THE COURT: Was there?MS. BAIR: --- there were restrictions, we weren't supposed to say anything but Mr. Gau- dreault, I believe it was, ---THE COURT: Oh yes.MS. BAIR: --- who had one thing to say down there that that's all, it was pretty much in silence and it was easy. And we'd have to speak to the security about shackling. My position is I obviously have no objection to it, and we facilitated it the last time, I'm sure if we ask the gentlemen nicely they'll facilitate it again. We also have the advantage of Mr. Gau- dreault being a witness and that he comes with his own security team, so we can do something.

THE COURT: All right. MS. MULLIGAN: And that makes way nicely into my

last comment, Your Honour, with respect to Mr.

Gaudreault. As I indicated yesterday Mr. Gau-

dreault walked by and said "Good luck, Mulli- gan",

the words themselves aren't menacing but the tone

certainly wasn't pleasant, and now every time Mr.

Gaudreault walks by me he turns his head and stares

at me, again not a significant act but certainly

I'm trying to do my job, I'm an officer of the

court, and I would ask that Mr. Gaudreault be

instructed at least not to make attempts to


1952

intimidate me. (In the absence of the jury)

1952

With respect to his coming into the court, I don't know but I know that all the lawyers, everyone that enters this court is put through the machine and that sort of thing, Mr. Burke has been asked about his coat hangar for his clothes, people are being asked for I.D., all of that, so there is very serious security, which is fine, but I don't know what the situation exists with Mr. Gaudreault, whether he is also put through that equipment before he enters, and I would ask that he be put through that equipment before he enters. He clearly has some animosity towards me and he clearly has a criminal history so in order to do my job effectively I need to feel safe in this courtroom as well.

THE COURT: Yes? MS. BAIR: I think we can deal with what Mr.

Gaudreault does on the stand, Your Honour. I don't think we can tell him to like anybody when he's not on the stand. I think my friend is asking the Court to tell Mr. Gaudreault to avert his gaze. In the end what he said was "Good luck, Mulligan". What Ms. Mulligan said in response to that was "Keep him away from me." Which one of those is more threatening? Quite frankly this is not a matter that we need to waste the Court's time with. Mr. Gaudreault knows not to do anything physical like he would, I mean we don't have to instruct him on that point. Any contact he's had -- well he hasn't had any contact. Any conversation he's


1952

had has been in the absence of the jury one time. He comes in before the jury comes in, he goes out after they leave. There's not a problem, there's security in the courtroom; if Ms. Mulligan is feeling particularly paranoid I think she need not. Everything is handled. I just don't know that we can tell him how to feel about anyone, particularly given some of the history. In addition, yes, the metal detectors are for his benefit ---THE COURT: I realize that.MS. BAIR: --- and he's with a security team as well, Your Honour.

MS. MULLIGAN: Your Honour, my only response is that I'm not asking you to instruct Mr. Gau- dreault to like me, I don't want Mr. Gaudreault to like me, however it is your courtroom and you can control the process in your courtroom and it's not just a matter of what the witness does on the stand, it's how the courtroom is -- how people conduct themselves in the courtroom, and it's just unnec-essary for me every time Mr. Gaudreault walks by me to have him staring me down, it's unnecessary, it doesn't need to happen in this courtroom, and he does it every time, and it is intimidating, which I assume is the intended purpose, and it's not necessary and I ask Your Honour to give him some direction in that regard.

THE COURT: I didn't ask you to contribute to this. Did you want to?


1952

MR. McKECHNIE: I don't think he knows who I am yet. THE COURT: That's what you call the low bridge

defence, yes, been there and done that, yes. All right. MS. BAIR: Quite frankly, Your Honour, in the scheme

of things comments that have been made over the years by the accused, this ain't nothing. If my friend is feeling uncomfortably that close to him, she can move back over here when he goes out.

THE COURT: Bring in the witness first, please. Not

the jury yet.


THE COURT: Mr. Gaudreault, --- THE WITNESS: Yes. THE COURT: --- Ms. Mulligan is feeling, whether

justified or not, is feeling a little bit of pressure because when you enter or exit she thinks that you're staring at her and she also thinks that you made at least a remark on one occasion, or she said you made a remark on one occasion, and she found that remark intimidating. So perhaps to avoid any problems at all between what Ms. Mulligan thinks you're trying to do or what you are doing, whatever, I don't care, just look the other way, just when you pass her just look to the left and don't look at her directly eye to eye or anything like that, okay?, when you're going out of the courtroom, and if you do that you'll make a


1952

great friend out of an old judge who's turning bald and doesn't need any more reason for hairs to fall out of his head, okay?

THE WITNESS: You're not the only that's going bald, Your Honour.

THE COURT: Well we share that, Mr. Gaudreault. So if you'll do that everything will work out fine, then Ms. Mulligan will have a much easier trial from her point of view and you will from yours, okay?

THE WITNESS: Sure, Your Honour.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir.

Okay. Bring in the jury.

Mr. McKechnie, I trust you're monitoring those

conversations carefully. A chairperson with a

bilingual capacity.COURT REPORTER: He wasn't too sure, Your Honour, of what you just said.THE COURT: Oh, what I said. Okay.


1952

--- Upon resuming in the presence of the jury at 2:27 p.m.

DENIS MARCEL GAUDREAULT, resumes on the stand THE COURT: Mr. Cooper?


EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER:

Q. Mr. Gaudreault, before one of the breaks this

morning I was about to show you a photograph and I'll show that to

you now. First off I'll ask you some questions, though. Yesterday - I'll just get us back to where we were

when I didn't do it earlier - yesterday you indicated, sir, that Mr. Stewart kept his telephones in a briefcase, a leather case, suitcase towards brown and red colour, correct? A. That's correct. Q. And then this morning you described it, it had some room in it and the phone was attached. A. Yeah. Q. I'm going to show you, sir, two photographs, two colour photographs, and ask you to examine them. A. Yeah, those are his suitcase. Q. Okay. Now on the one photographs the suitcase is closed? A. Yeah. Q. On the other photograph it's opened? A. Yeah. Q. And what can you see inside the suitcase, sir? A. There's a telephone and money.

THE COURT REPORTER: Pardon?THE WITNESS: Un téléphone et puis de l'argent.


1962

MR. COOPER: Q. And what is the article --- THE COURT: Perhaps you should stop for a minute and

the jury should hear the translation. THE INTERPRETER: A phone and some money. THE

WITNESS: And there's a phone just like the one you showed me, like -- well, the ones we had.

MR. COOPER: May I just have the walkie- talkie, please?

THE REGISTRAR: Yes. MR. COOPER: Q. Are you referring to Exhibit 85, sir? A. Yeah, but I can't see the end of the antenna, so ..... I can see it, yeah. MR. COOPER: If these two photographs, I don't think

they need to be separate, can be the next numbered exhibit, please.

THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit 93, Your Honour. THE COURT: All right, Exhibit 93, two photographs.

EXHIBIT NO. 93: Two photographs MR. COOPER: Q. And while I'm on housekeeping matters, Mr. Gaudreault, you've indicated, sir, that, during the course of the video that we watched, that you drove the route that's indicated on the video? A. That's correct. Q. And what type of vehicle were you driving, sir? A. For the video or the time ---


1962

Q. No, on Tuesday, the 16th of January. A. That was a Cadillac, white. Q. Would it assist you, sir, to examine a white Cadillac tomorrow? A. Sure. MR. COOPER: Your Honour, as the Court knows,

arrangements have been made and tomorrow morning at the beginning of the morning we'll interrupt whatever I would otherwise be doing with Mr. Gaudreault to attend in the basement, Mr. Gaudreault, of the courthouse so that you can conduct a quiet examination of the vehicle in front of the jury and Mr. Stewart and Mr. Mallory. We won't speak at that time and then you can come up here and answer questions about it.

THE WITNESS: Correct. MR. COOPER: Okay. THE COURT: So there, you know what you're doing at

10:00 o'clock tomorrow morning, members of the jury.

MR. COOPER: I think I'm done with my housekeeping for the moment.

Q. We had been discussing, sir, before the lunch break the first visit, the first time you met Mr. Vanasse, and you indicated --- A. About a week before Christmas. Q. Yes. And it was with Mr. Mallory. A. That's correct. Q. As you can see we now have the calendar up off the floor. When did you next see Mr. Vanasse, sir?


1962

A. After Christmas. Q. And could you indicate how this happened? What happened after Christmas when you saw Mr. Vanasse, how did it happen? A. I'd have to -- I had a visit from Rob and Vanasse, they didn't want to talk inside the house. Q. Yes? A. Then I was brought outside and they talked to me outside but Rhonda did not want me to go outside. Q. And what was discussed outside? A. That they were tired of people like me owing them money and pretty soon there'll be a sample being made of. Q. And what time of day was this, sir? A. In the morning. Q. Were there any vehicles there? A. Yes, there was. Q. And what vehicles were there? A. Vanasse's truck. Q. Okay. The one that you described earlier today? A. Correct. Q. And who was doing the talking? A. Stewart was doing some talking and Vanasse was doing other talking. Q. And can you indicate who said what? A. Stewart said -- Rob Stewart says that "Pretty soon there'll be a sample being made of people", they were tired of "assholes owing us money" and Vanasse was basically just there like an observer at the time, --- Q. Yes?


1962

A. --- to observe that he was doing his work properly, doing his job right. Q. Okay. And what do you mean by "samples", sir? A. I don't know, cripple somebody or hurt somebody. Q. Okay. Do you recall the -- was that the word used, "sample"? A. Yeah. Q. Pretty soon they're going to make samples? Was the word "example" used? A. "example". You got it. Well I'm French. Q. What was Mr. Stewart's demeanour at the time? A. Pissed off. Q. Okay. And Mr. Vanasse? A. A smile on his face. Q. Okay. Had you seen these two gentlemen together before, had they spoken to you while they were together before? A. One of the first times I saw them together. Q. How was Mr. Stewart on this occasion as compared to how he was when he was alone asking you about your debts? A. More persistent. Q. Yes? A. C'est comme ça que tu dis ça? Q. More persistent? A. Yes. Q. And what about his tone?


1962

A. Bragging a bit. Well, basically being loud and mean. Q. Okay. How long did the meeting take, sir? A. Five minutes, maybe 10 tops. Q. And how did it end? A. They drove off. Q. And what thought did they leave you with? A. That soon I'd be reading about it. Q. Okay. Where would you be reading about it and what is "it"? A. Well, soon we'll be reading about it in the newspapers that they're not fucking no more, they mean business, they're tired, they want their money, they want to collect, they're not getting their money that they want to get and now here comes their threats and a little heavier. Q. A little heavier? A. Oh yeah. Q. Did you give them any money that morning, sir? A. I don't recall. Q. Okay. Did you see either one of them later that day? A. I think it was in the afternoon I saw Rob Stewart, later on in the afternoon. Q. Yes? And where did you see Rob Stewart in the afternoon? A. Romeo and Juliet. Q. Okay. Yesterday, sir, you indicated you had contact with Mr. Stewart at a Sub place on one day. A. Yeah. Q. When did that take place?


1962

A. That took place in the evening, --- Q. Yes? A. --- just a little after supper or around supper because I asked to have more coke because New Year's was coming and I needed to catch up on my bills, and then I paged him and he told me to meet him at the -- I guess, I don't know, it's a Sub place on McArthur Road by Chapel but at the corner across from the Dairy Queen there was a Sub place there back then. So I went down, had a discussion with Rob and Rob paged Randy, Randy came down in his small truck and he brought me some coke down. Then also I remember now Randy gave me a ride back home. Q. Okay. And you say you indicated to Mr. Stewart the New Year's was coming up that's why --- A. Yeah. I needed to catch up, yeah. Q. Okay. So when did that incident take place? A. Just before New Year's. It's around the -- sometime around the last few days of December. I'd have to check what I said because it's eight years ago, I don't remember exactly which day it was. Like back then when I made some of the statesments (sic) my mind was more fresh ---

Q. Yes?A. --- and now since it's been a while so I'd

have to recheck my statement just to make sure that I don't make a mistake and be called a liar down the line. Q. Just give us a moment, please. I'll show you two -- well, I'll show you one thing first of all, it's a photocopy of your 14th June, 1990 interview with Officers Riddell and Lamarche in Brockville, Ontario, and in order to assist you I'll refer you to page 6.


1962

I think the passage you're looking for is about the third line down and thereafter.

A. Yeah.Q. Page 6 of that statement I don't know if it

has a stamp on it. Yes, it's stamped 35, I think. It appears to be 35. A. Yeah, that was about right, the 27th of December. Q. Has that refreshed your memory, sir? A. Yeah. Q. Now it's your memory now that's important but you can refresh it from that statement if you wish.

So what happens on the 27th of December? A. The 27th of December in the morning Michael Vanasse and Rob Stewart showed up, like I said I got a lot of shit --- Q. Yes? A. --- and threats were being made, then samples were gonna be made soon because they were tired of people like me fucking them around and --- Q. Samples or examples? A. Example, yeah. Q. Yes? And then? A. And then I asked for some more coke because New Year's was coming around so he said he'd see what he could do, and then I paged him again or called him again later on that day and then he called me back telling me to meet him down at the Sub place. I went down to the Sub place. At the Sub place I told him what I wanted so he got a hold of Randy, because first he paged Randy and turned his phone one, Randy called and ---


1962

Q. Yes? A. --- Randy came down in his truck, brought

down some coke. Q. And how much cocaine, sir? A. I think it was a couple of ounces. Q. Okay. And did you pay ---

A. It could've been ---Q. Sorry?

A. I didn't pay for it, it was on a front. Q. On a front. I don't know if I reviewed this yesterday or not, what is a front, sir? A. A front is when you don't put no money down. Q. Sir, in the course of your witness preparation interviews you had a number of interviews over the course of this weekend that's just past with me and with Officer Ralko? A. Well, yeah. Q. And sometime before that, a few weeks before that you --- A. About three weeks before. Q. Okay. --- you again had a few days ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- of interviews with Mr. Ralko and I and

Officer Riddell ---A. Yeah.Q. --- was present for some of it as well ---

A. Yeah. Q. --- on both occasions?


1962

Did you have occasion, sir, in your own handwriting to generate a calendar to sort of summarize from your statements --- A. Yes I did. Q. --- where you were at which time? A. Yeah. Q. Would it assist you in your memory today, sir, in your testimony today to examine that document that you yourself created? A. Well it would help me because like I said it's been a long time ago so ..... MR. CRYSTAL: Your Honour, I'm going to have to

object to that. THE COURT: Yes.MR. CRYSTAL: I'd just ask that the jury be excused.

THE COURT: Yes. Members of the jury ..... ---

Whereupon the jury retired at 2:43 p.m.


1962

--- In the absence of the juryMR. COOPER: I imagine you should be excused as

well, Mr. Gaudreault. Thank you.

--- Whereupon the witness retired MR. CRYSTAL: Yes, Your Honour, the objection is

with regards to these documents that have been

prepared by Mr. Gaudreault. They're done on a map

grid, monthly map grid, and they're annotated and

the submission would be, Your Honour, that these

are not notes that were prepared at the time of the

events, or what have you, and used for one to

refresh their memory but are actually self-serving

prior consistent statements.

Your Honour, the way I would understand this as working is if Mr. Cooper asked the witness his recollection of the events of this date, these particular dates -- well, let me put it to you this way: The precondition for Mr. Cooper to introduce any prior statement or any notes to refresh one's memory arises when the witness is actually giving the evidence and has some difficulty or requires some aid to refresh memory; that would be a time then to look at whether or not there were some notes or something that the witness can use. If a witness is being prepared by a Crown attorney and in the process of being prepared by a Crown attorney gives a number of new satements, those statements cannot be entered into evidence, they are -- they're basically self-supporting state-


1974

ments. What really has to happen I think before we

can even get into this is the witness really has to

be asked about his recollections with regards to

events on a particular date. If there has been some

new recollections since the material that's been

disclosed to us then there may be a live issue, but

at this point in time the introduction of self-

serving statements given in this form, I would

submit to you that this grid with these notes is as

much a statement as a traditional witness state-

ment.

So, first of all my first point, therefore, would

be that the issue hasn't -- it is isn't even a live

issue yet because the witness really hasn't

answered about their recollection, and when they

are -- when they do respond to the question and

maybe need to refresh their memory then we enter

into the idea of refreshing one's memory, but in

terms of a prior statement going in, the

circumstances for that haven't arisen, and I would

submit to you that if they are just there to be

introduced as self-serving statements they cannot

go in.

And also, Your Honour, what seems to have been the

case, Ms. Mulligan has sort of reviewed these

things, what it seems to be is basically former

statements that Mr. Gaudreault has given, and

those have been disclosed to us, and they've been


1974

basically dissected and placed into different

points on a monthly or a month grid, a map, I'm

sorry, a calendar, I'm sorry,


1974

and basically the sections of the statements that apply to those particular dates have been slotted into those particular days so, Your Honour, I don't really see how this could go in as evidence.

THE COURT: Yes, Mr. McKechnie?

MR. McKECHNIE: Yes, I think the general rule is

that a witness can refresh their memory from

statements made contemporaneously with the events. The secondary problem with respect to this one is it the witness' memory or is it an assisted -- whose memory is it, a review of his statements in coordination with a couple of police officers and the Crown in order to come and arrive at these memories? Because some of them don't come out as statements, some of them are -- they're almost like a synthesis arrived at, if I may, and they're not really a memory, it's not from refreshing a memory, it's a new creation and it's not the witness' memory neces-sarily.

MR. COOPER: Well, Your Honour, the very offensive second point made by Mr. McKechnie and for which he has no foundation whatsoever, he can cross-examine Mr. Gaudreault on it, he can call me, cross-examine me, he can call Ralko or Riddell and cross-examine them. Like as if he's calling all these people, he'd have to do it in chief. In any event, he can examine the wit- nesses before he makes an allegation which is completely unsupported in any factual way what-


1974

soever, and assumes that counsel for one are going

to violate rules of professional conduct, an

assumption which I trust is the least rebut- table

even from Mr. McKechnie's standpoint.

Now with respect to the concepts raised by Mr.

Crystal, he has unfortunately mixed several legal

principles, in my respectful submission. First of

all this is a calendar. I suppose you can describe

it scientifically as a number of other things, but

it's quite simply a calendar. There is nothing of

substance that's new on the calendar. Mr.

Gaudreault has phrased things to remind himself of

what goes where. The "what" is not new. This was

generated by Mr. Gau- dreault so he would be able

to present his evidence chronologically and

sequentially as it appears in a vast array of

statements and conversations that he's had during

the course of this investigation primarily with

Officer Lamarche but also Fitzgibbons and Riddell.

So (a) there's nothing new in here to suggest that it's something -- that a new memory has popped up, it's simply an articulation of a sequence or chronology. It's not a situation ...... He could create the same thing on the stand if we took all the time, we got all his statements in front of him, which of course he's entitled to review, and we could all sit here and wait while he reconstructs the whole thing, but that's what we spent part of the preparation time doing, this is a


1974

time-saving(In the absence of the jury)

1974

exercise and a consolidation exercise, but perhaps

Mr. Gaudreault in front of everybody can spread his

statements all over the place and get on his hands

and knees and start writing little notes onto that

calendar and we can see if it comes out the same

but that's hardly the point, in my respectful sub-

mission.

This isn't a situation where he's - excuse me, just one point that has slipped my mind ..... Giving evidence, Your Honour, is ..... The contents are in the statements, this is not a memory test, what came first, what came second, what came third, was it on the 17th or 19th. The only date that's important of course is the 16th and he's got documentary evidence which he claims is supportive, and of course on the 19th as well with the payment to Mr. Sauvé. Those are the important days.

The other stuff, frankly, it's the best presen-tation of the evidence. Mr. Gaudreault has been through this exercise, we can't undo it, he's gone through it once, he's made these preparations, this is in his handwriting, it wasn't directed on what to note down or where to note it. He has generated this document in order to assist him in giving his best evidence. He asked for help on the stand here just now. He was given a statement initially and then I asked him if he wanted further assistance and he indicated that he would, so his memory was tested.


1974

We're not filing these things. My friend Mr. Crystal seemed to indicate that we were adducing this evidence. We're not filing these statements. We're not filing Mr. Gaudreault's chronology calendars, we're not even attempting to. What we're attempting to do is have Mr. Gaudreault present his evidence in a proper fashion so he can do his best, make his best efforts at giving his evidence to the Court and to the jury. He indicated "I would have to check my statements, it's been eight years now, my memory was fresher then, I don't want to make a mistake", that's why he got access to the statements. Now he's indicated that it would assist him in placing the events in order if he had access to the document that he's generated -- began generating three weeks ago or four weeks ago, and concluded generating last weekend, the weekend just past.

In my respectful submission to the Court it doesn't need to be contemporaneous and that is not the law, but nevertheless the content of the statements themselves was relatively contemporaneous to the same year anyway, now we're barely in the same decade, and therefore my point that it is an assistance, it is an aid to Mr. Gaudreault, it's not an aid for the trier of fact. That is the difference. Mr. Crystal seems to think we're filing these materials so that the jury can use them; that's not being requested by the Crown.


1974

MS. MULLIGAN: If I might just respond, Your Honour.

It would be as though Mr. Gaudreault were sitting

up there and first of all I think we have to bear

in mind that Mr. Cooper says well he's asked for

assistance. Mr. Cooper led him on that point,

"Would you like some assis-tance? Here let me give

it to you" but it would be as though Mr. Gaudreault

were sitting up there with all of his statements in

front of him, being asked a question and going

'well, just a second, I'll find it for you'. He's

not being asked for his independent recollection,

he's being asked for what's in his statements

essentially. They are prior -- this would amount to

a conglomeration of a bunch of prior consistent

statements, and let's face it the real goal here is

not so that he can give his evidence in a

chronological and careful -- it's so that he can

give it consistent with what he said before and we

know that that doesn't always happen with Mr.

Gaudreault. They are prior consistent statements

and Mr. Cooper has set it up that way by saying

"last week you made this" what is going to amount

to a prior consistent statement, and Mr. Cooper is

not entitled to lead that through Mr. Gaudreault by

giving him this prior consistent statement so that

he can read his evidence.

There are cases on point. The case of Royer from the Supreme Court of Canada and the case of Evans


1974

from the Supreme Court of Canada, both 1990 decisions, that indicate that, and I don't


1974

have them before Your Honour because I didn't know this was going to arise, but they indicate essen-tially that he can be cross-examined, if he leaves out details from statements made contemporaneously with the events then Mr. Cooper is fully entitled to re-examine him. But I think at the very least, and certainly there are other cases that deal with refreshing his memory, but at the very least we should ask him the question 'do you know when you next saw somebody?' and get his answer and then if he needs assistance then go to his statement, but to simply say to him 'here, would you like the document from which you can', you know, 'which you've made from your previous consistent statements', which makes it a big previous con-sistent statement, 'that will refresh your memory and you can give your evidence' essentially consistently with the previous consis-tent statement, he should at least be asked 'Do you know when you next saw Mr. Vanasse? Do you know when you next did this, do you know when you next -- can you give me an approximation?' If then he asks for assistance to refresh his memory then he may be given that, but Mr. Cooper has prompted him to ask for that on this occasion and that's not the way it works, otherwise he's just giving him something that indicates to the jury that Mr. Gaudreault was able to create this document last week with all these dates, or two weeks ago, in the presence of the police officers and that he created this


1974

document and now he's going to read it, essentially he's going to read the document as opposed to his recollections.

MR. COOPER: Your Honour, Ms. Mulligan didn't make

--- Mr. Crystal didn't make that same point earlier

so if I could just reply to that point.

This isn't a prior consistent statement. My friend

can't honestly be misinterpreting the law that

badly. It's not being adduced. It's nothing. It's

simply Mr. Gaudreault's statements that he made at

the time. Prior consis-tent statements is something that's being adduced

as a fact before the jury, the statements are being

read to the jury. Mr. Gau- dreault, I don't know, I

didn't see if his lips were moving or not, but he's

reading it to himself. This isn't a prior

consistent statement, he's just refreshing his

memory. It's a totally different concept, it's not

related to prior consistent statements.

And with respect to Ms. Mulligan's suggestion that he was prompted to give his evidence, I would ask the Court if there's any doubt about how Mr. Gaudreault originally -- what he originally said was something to the effect - I don't have the exact words I don't think - 'I would have to check my statements, it's been eight years ago, my memory' - "statements" was plural -'my memory was fresher then. I don't want to make a mistake'. He's


1974

asking for help(In the absence of the jury)

1974

and, frankly, it's not the first time in the examination-in-chief, it's just the first time that I thought it was worth stopping to allow him to do that. He also apparently indicated, Your Honour, that he didn't want to be called a liar later on.

THE COURT: Yeah.

Well I think there's a confluence of a couple of

ideas as I understand the law in this area. One is,

of course, that you obviously couldn't prepare

statement and read a statement to the court as your

evidence and simply sort of read on for three hours

and then say 'There, I'm finished my evidence,

thank you very much', that's not our tradition and

that's not what we do. So the witness does not have

time to prepare his whole evidence outside of court

and then come in and read it to the Court.

If these pages were the whole of Mr. Gau- dreault's evidence, to be blunt I would say hallelujah, but so what they are then they're a distillation of things that he has noticed in the evidence that he thinks will trigger his memory. If he can give his whole story out of these few hints or indices, then I'm prepared to allow him to use it because it may save time rather than going through and finding where it is in all of the statements and everything else. He may find, I suspect, that this may not be enough, especially when we come to cross-examina-tion, there's just not enough detail


1974

here, but if there are enough triggers here to his

memory, some of them which he's already spoken

about, the half kilo and that kind of thing, then I

think that would be appropriate.

I would say we would go down the road, ask the questions, then if Mr. Gaudreault says he'd like to consult his timetable then he can, his date or his calendar, whatever he wants to call it, and then let's see where we go from there, and in cross-examination he may find that he may have to justify why he put something in on the 8th or the 9th or whatever too. So I think it's appropriate that he can use it. I don't think it's because of the relative terseness of it that it's like preparing a whole statement to be read in court and, if as a practical matter, it helps him to get his memory juices going it may save time, I agree with the Crown to that extent, but I suspect in the end it will only be a stop gap and we'll have to go to the other statements eventually anyway, certainly by the time we get to cross, but we'll see.

MR. COOPER: Perhaps given that we've now had an argument on that that should be a lettered exhibit, Your Honour, the document in your hand.

THE COURT: All right. THE REGISTRAR: It's Exhibit O, Your Honour. THE COURT: Exhibit O, yes.

MS. BAIR: Were there any annotations on it, Your Honour?


1974

THE COURT: There is a blank, another page on the back of that or something.

MR. COOPER: Just so that I don't make a mistake here, Your Honour, where are we right now with respect to the 27th? He had indicated that he would like the assistance of this document.

THE COURT: Well if he wants to go back and look at

the 27th, that's fine.

Bring in the witness, please, and the jury.


1974

--- Upon resuming in the presence of the jury at 3:03 p.m.

--- Accused present


MR. COOPER: Another housekeeping matter, Your

Honour. We'll retrieve the calculations from the

jury, I think I will probably be referring to them

again at a later point in time but .....


Yes, Mr. Cooper.


EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER: Q. Mr. Gaudreault, just before we left you indicated you'd find it perhaps beneficial to look at one of the documents you generated earlier. I'm just giving you the one entitled December --- A. Okay. Q. --- for now.

Now my question to you, sir, was you described the incident with Mr. Stewart and Mr. Vanasse --- A. That's correct. Q. --- and a point later in the day where you end up at a Sub place? A. Well, after supper ---

Q. Yes?A. --- or around supper.

Q. Okay. And you received something. A. Yeah, two ounces of coke. Q. Okay. And you indicate that was on a front.

D. GAUDREAULT, in-chf

(Cooper)

2008

A. That's correct. Q. Okay. And can you assist the jury with respect to when that was. You'd indicated it was before New Year's --- A. Yeah. Q. ---because that's why you needed the cocaine; you told Mr. Stewart that. Have you been able to determine -- assist the jury with respect to approximately what date it was? A. Just before New Year's because I needed it for New Year's, I think it was a few days, maybe two, three, four days before New Year's when that took place. Q. I'm trying, sir, to develop this chronologically. You had indicated yesterday, yesterday I think, earlier anyway, about an incident where there was a gentleman outside your window in Mr. Stewart's truck. A. That's correct. Q. Okay. Can you assist the jury, sir, with respect to when that incident happened? A. That was around the first week of January, on a Friday. Q. Okay. And does the calendar up here, sir, on the tripod, does that assist you with fixing a number to the date? A. Yeah, the 5th. Q. Okay. If I may have a second here?

Can you indicate, sir, when the next time it was that you saw Mr. Stewart after the 5th? A. Well we went up to see my car, my race car. Q. Okay. Do you know when that -- precisely that event took place, sir?


(Cooper)

2008

A. I'd have to recheck. I know that Rob came down with Michael Vanasse and then I was supposed to go down because they were gonna have a look at -- I bought a racing car for a pound of hash off Royal Joly and the car was in -- I purchased the car from -- in Rockland and then I brought the car over to my brother-in-law, there was some -- when they were trying to do some work on the motor they dropped the pin from the air breather inside the carburetor and somebody turned the key on, as soon as he turned the key on he cracked one of the sleeves so I had it resleeved and everything. Towards my bill I was gonna give the car to Rob but I guess Rob owed the money to Michael Vanasse that's why Michael came, and we went over to my sister's to have a look at the car. But before we got up there I was dropped off down to a pizza place at the time which was right at the flicking lights on the 17. As soon as you get to Cumberland there's a flicking light, if you hang a left you end up on the ferry, if you hang a right you end up going into Cumberland. They dropped me off there. They were supposed to be gone about 20 minutes, something like that, or half an hour, but then they ended up being left -- around an hour they were gone, so I went inside, I had a bunch of cheeseburgers and some fries and played some games on the -- like, video games and talked with the owner's wife and the owner. Q. Okay. I just want to review that a little more slowly. A. But like I said I'd have to check because it's -- this happened eight years ago. I have to refresh myself a little bit because I was fresher back then than I am today for dates and days. It's like asking somebody what did you have to eat seven years ago for breakfast, everybody knows, but what did you have for supper, that's a different question.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Be patient with us for just a minute, Mr. Gaudreault, we'll try and assist you, provide you the assis-tance that you're requesting. We'll have it out of the computer in a couple of minutes, Your Honour. Right now we'll have to use the statement.

I'm supplying you, sir, for the benefit of my friends, the 21st of March, 1990 interview you had in Belle- ville with Officer Lamarche. Just one moment. I direct you to about the bottom quarter, sir.

A. I could change the page, eh? Q. Yes, certainly.

A. Because it goes on.MR. COOPER: 14 is the handwritten page. MS. MULLIGAN: Thank you.MR. COOPER: Q. There's another reference, sir, in your 14th

of June, 1990 Brockville interview on page handwritten 7, it looks like 36 on the stamped, and the reference to this incident is at about the 8th or 10th line up, sir. Have you read those, sir? A. Yeah. Q. First of all, I'd just like to have you explain to the jury more about this race car. A. This race car was a 1973 Vega Astra fast- back with a 302. Q. And was this a vehicle that you could drive to get groceries in? A. Well no, that's -- well, it was a racing car but we made it into a street-legal car.

Q. Oh yes. And ---


(Cooper)

2008

A. There was no heaters, none of that stuff, I don't think there was any windshield wipers either. Q. You said "we made it into a street-legal car." A. Me and my brother-in-law Rick Gravelle. Q. Rick Gravelle? And where were you storing the vehicle, sir? A. At Rick Gravelle's garage, my brother-in-law's garage. Q. Okay. Did Rick Gravelle have any -- you said "we made it" into a street-legal, did he have any kind of investment in time, or money, or anything into this vehicle? A. Well he knew about mechanics and all that, then we sort of like went 50-50, well, he didn't give me no money, we just sort of like went partners on it. Q. I see. And what was Mr. Vanasse's or Mr. Stewart's interest in your car? A. Well, it was worth money. Q. And what was your estimate of the value of the car, sir? A. About 10 thousand. Q. Ten thousand? A. Yeah. Q. And what did Mr. --- A. When I bought it I paid a pound of hash for it, so you got to figure out like the motor was already -- the sleeve was cracked on the inside because that pin had fell down, so what we did is we took the motor out and sent it to a place off Leitrim past Rideau Road. Q. Off Leitrim? A. Yeah, Highway 31 ---


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Yes? A. --- you call it, past Rideau Road, then there's a garage, a machine shop, on the right-hand side. Rick knew the guy out there and we brought it out there. Q. Okay. A. But I was asking 10, I don't know if I would've got 10 but it would've took a chunk off my bill. Q. And what was the purpose in Mr. Vanasse and Mr. Stewart having a look at this car? A. Well I owed them money, that was a way to get some payments. Like I said, when you didn't have the money they picked up things that you had, if it's worth something they'll take it from you. Q. Okay. Eventually you end up, do you, sir, going to look at the car? A. Yes, we did. Q. Was there anybody home in Rockland? A. No. Q. Who lived there at the time? A. My sister Sylvie, my brother-in-law Richard, and three kids. Q. Okay. A. Three. Q. Okay. And there was no one home at the time that --- A. No. Q. --- you went there?

Can you give some assistance to the jury as to when that occurred. A. Yeah, it had to be after New Year's because there was nobody at the house, because I got a lot of trouble


(Cooper)

2008

for showing up there when there was nobody there, and plus I brought Rob and Michael Vanasse up there, my sister kind of blasted me over that one. Q. Was your sister home at the time? A. No. My sister, my brother-in-law -- my brother-in-law back then worked for Ottawa Drapery when they did the National Galleries, --- Q. Yes? A. --- his brother and his other brother owned a company which was putting the vertical blinds in there. Q. I see. And he wasn't home either. A. Nobody was there. Q. So it was just the three of you - Mr. Vanasse, Mr. Stewart and you. A. That's correct. Q. And that was the purpose of your --- A. Yeah, he was taking the car. The deal was made, he was taking the car, but it was the wintertime, there's no way you could drive it during the winter because it was straight shift ---

Q. It was what?A. Straight shift, like it was made for the

summer, like there was no heater, no nothing in there. Where the hell are they gonna go with it? Q. Now if I could just back you up, sir, and could you describe how you meet them that day. A. Well they came over to my house first thing in the morning, Michael Vanasse and Rob Stewart. Q. Was this pre-arranged in any way, sir?


(Cooper)

2008

A. Yeah, it was pre-arranged that they were gonna come over, and they were both there I'd say around -- I'd have to say maybe a week, a week and a half after New Year's. Q. Okay. A. And when they came over they came over in the morning. I left with them. On the way down we were having some discussion because they were kind of asking about the car and I kept telling Mr. Stewart that the car I bought off Roy Joly and he thought that he'd seen it before. Q. Yes? A. So we just discussed about the car and they were gonna tell me by the time how much they were gonna give me towards it after they see it. Q. How were they going to determine that? A. By looking at it first, then getting Larry Lepine to have the final decision. Q. Who is Larry Lepine? A. Larry Lepine is one of Rob Stewart's guys and Michael Vanasse. Q. Okay. And how do you travel, the three of you? A. In Mr. Vanasse's truck. Q. And who's driving it? A. Vanasse. Q. And where is Mr. Stewart seated? A. In the passenger and I'm in the back. Q. You're in the back? Is there any discussion, sir, about the state of your payments? A. Well yeah there was discussion that they couldn't figure out how come I kept screwing up, I could be making a lot more money than I'm making now, they couldn't


(Cooper)

2008

figure how come I was so much behind and conversation like that, that I was fucking up and there was no reason for me to fuck up. Q. And what route do you take from your house? A. We went down Montreal Road and jumped on the 17 right after the Voyageur hotel, which was on the right, you just pass the underpass, turn around and go back up on the 17 ---

Q. Yes?A. --- and go down towards Orleans, then you

pass, you keep going straight down. Q. Okay. And you said you stopped somewhere. A. Yeah, they dropped me off at the pizza place in Cumberland. Q. Did they indicate why they were dropping you off? A. Because they had some unfinished business that they were -- that they had to attend to, somebody up in Cumberland. Q. Okay. Did they say how long they would be gone? A. They told me no more than 20 minutes, half an hour top. Q. How long were they in fact gone? A. About an hour. Q. And which way did they go? A. Well I'm bad with directions. When they went I said left but I made a mistake, they made a right at the end. As soon as you go down you turn right, at the flicking light you go down to the end ---


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Actually, sir, can you put us on Highway 17 and take us from there. A. Okay. Well, I might as well go from Montreal Road then. Go down Montreal Road past the Voyageur, past I guess it would be called Ogilvie Road, keep going down, then you have the Voyageur, which was on the right, then you come up to the 17, the overpass of the 17, go around, make your curve, get back on the 17 and then you go straight down the 17, first you pass Orleans, then you get up to a whole bunch of, like, roads after you pass Orleans, winding roads, then you get up to -- just as you get to Cumberland there's a flicking light, so if you make a left you're going down to the ferry, which would take you across to the Quebec side, and if you make a right it'll take you right into Cumberland.

So as soon as they made a right they stopped right there. I said "What's going on?", they said "Well we have to go talk to some people, we shouldn't be too long, 20 minutes, half-hour we'll be back", so I said "All right". So Stew- art opened up his door, the seat, like it's a buckled seat that you have to forward, --- Q. Yes? A. --- fold it forward, I got out and as they're driving off I'm looking and they made a right, started heading down towards I don't know where, all I can tell you they made a right ---

Q. Okay.A. --- because I don't know where they went.

Then after that they came back. Q. Okay. Just before you get into what happened when they came back, sir, I'm going to show you a docu-


(Cooper)

2008

ment, it's indicated that it was drawn by you on September 20th, 1995. Do you recognize this map I guess? A. Yeah, that's the -- that's the flicking lights, the 17, that's the pizza place and that's the way they went, that's the end of the road you can't go any further and there is no lights there, there's only a stop sign. Q. Okay. A. But I don't know now because I may be called a liar because maybe they set up a set of lights last year. Q. Okay. You were just pointing to a spot which above it has "truck going west" written on it; is that correct? A. Yeah, that would be going back towards Orleans I guess. Q. Okay. And you've labelled that road "video road". Is that the road that --- A. We took the video on, that's correct. And that's the pizza place where they dropped me off, they dropped me off just on the side of the road by the gas bar. Q. And you're pointing to a place that's labelled "pizza". A. Yeah. Q. And gas bar? A. It was a pizza gas bar then.

Q. Okay. MR. COOPER: If that could be the next numbered

exhibit, please. THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit 94, Your Honour.

EXHIBIT NO. 94: Map


(Cooper)

2008

MR. COOPER: I'm told it's teatime, Your Honour, and after we've had teatime I'll pass them out to the jurors.

THE COURT: M'hmm-hmm.


* * * * * * * *

--- Upon resuming at 3:46 p.m.--- Accused present

DENIS MARCEL GAUDREAULT, resumes on the stand MR. COOPER: Just for the record, Your Honour, I'm

passing what is now Exhibit 94 to the jury.

THE COURT: Yes.

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF (continued) BY MR. COOPER:

Q. Sir, did the event, if you know, the event,

the trip that is to look at your race car, occur before or after

Friday, the 5th of January when you saw the fellow in the pickup

truck, ---A. After.Q. --- in Mr. Stewart's pickup truck?

A. After. Q. After? Was it very long after, sir? A. No. Q. Now you indicated that you got out of Mr. Vanasse's vehicle, ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- you told how Mr. Stewart pulled the seat

forward, you got out of Mr. Vanasse's vehicle and what side of the


(Cooper)

2008

road is the pizza place on?D. GAUDREAULT, in-chf

(Cooper)

2008

A. On the right-hand side, the same side that they dropped me off. Q. Okay. And how long approximately is it from the pizza place, I guess continuing south, until the intersection? A. Four seconds, five seconds, maybe 10. Q. And you indicated that the - I keep forget- ting what type of vehicle it is - Mr. Vanasse's vehicle turned right. A. That's right. Q. You indicated something about a left turn as well. A. Well I mentioned in one of my statesment (sic) that they turned left but they never turned left, they turned right.

Tu m'entends? Q. So what -- where were they headed toward, what is the nearest town that they were headed toward? A. I would assume Orleans. Q. Headed in that direction. A. Yeah. Q. Okay. And what did you do in their absence, sir? A. Well I went in the pizza place, --- Q. Yes? A. --- I had three cheeseburgers, large fries with gravy and a large milk and played a bunch of video games. I'm a big eater. Q. I couldn't hear the last part. A. I'm a big eater. Q. You're a big eater.


(Cooper)

2008

A. Yeah. Q. The ---A. Well because at the time when you do crack

cocaine sometimes you'll go a day, two days without eating anything, and in the morning about that time I was quite hungry and that's what I ate. I remember because the girl, one of -- the owner's wife looked at me, she says "A small guy like you will eat all that food?" It didn't take me long, maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes it was all gone. Q. Okay. Do you remember what time of day it was approximately, sir? A. It was before noon. In the morning. Q. Now, do you see Mr. Vanasse and Mr. Stewart return? A. Yeah, they returned and they came like right in front, so they didn't come out so I saw them, I got on Mr. Stewart's side, he just got out, let me back in the truck. I got in the truck and then there was a conversation as they were turning -- like, okay, they left the pizza place, it's on the right, they got back on that road, that little road that I'm talking about by the single lights, they hang a left because that's back towards the 17, because when they came down they came down from the town from where they turned right, I would imagine they came -- because that's the road that they came down because then they drove in and went right in front, like, of the pizza place. Q. Okay. I'm just going to wait until that juror is finished with that map, sir, and ask you to explain it to me with the aid of the map. Again, sir, for the record you've got Exhibit 94. Could you indicate how they returned?


(Cooper)

2008

A. Okay, well all I could tell you is how they came in because I didn't see him which -- like, when they came back. All I know is the pizza place is here, they came -- because they went in this way, into the gas station, --- Q. Yes? A. --- the pizza place, they would've had to make a left to get into it. Q. I see. THE COURT: They made a half a U to get into the gas

station, they did a half a U-turn. THE WITNESS: Yeah, they'd have to turn left to get

in it because if they turn right they'd go right into a house.

MR. COOPER: Q. Okay. A. So they turned left. Q. So they were coming --- A. Well they came down this road here ---

Q. --- Okay.A. --- because I was sitting in the --when you

first went in the pizza place there's -- the video table is right there and I was sitting facing the outside, looking out. Q. So you can't indicate how they turned on to this short road but they were coming toward you --- A. They were facing the 17, --- Q. Okay. Perfect. A. --- that's all I could tell you. They were facing the 17. Then we came out, there's another parking lot, like another out entrance, there's two entrances into this pizza place you could get in, when you first turn off the 17 you could make a right and right away go in the parking lot and


(Cooper)

2008

just go left and back right and you're right back out, like there's pumps in and out.

So they came in and then I just got out, got in the truck, then they went down to the flicking lights, --- Q. Yes? A. --- hang a right heading towards Rockland. Q. Okay. And Rockland is labelled on the map as well. A. Yeah. Q. So when they leave the small one block area at the flashing light --- A. It's not even a block area, ---

Q. --- they turn right --- A. --- it's right at the corner.

Q. Okay. They turn right and head towards what's labelled here as Rockland. A. That's correct. Q. Okay.

MR. COOPER: I'll hand that to the jury again, Your Honour.

Q. So the three of you are heading toward Rockland ---

A. Yeah, and Vanasse ---Q. --- and what transpires?

A. --- and Stewart were having a conversation in Vanasse's truck about --- Q. Were they talking to you, sir? A. No, they were talking amongst them, I'm sitting in the back seat. Q. Yes?


(Cooper)

2008

A. Then Vanasse mentions to him "Why don't we just take the cars?" and Rob says that they weren't worth that much, and then he says he was gonna have Larry having a look at them, "but we'll just give them one more chance anyhow'. Q. Okay. I'll just ask you to repeat that. First of all, sir, are you referring to car as a singular or plural? A. No, cars. There was a few of them or a couple, I don't know, they were talking about a few cars and they weren't worth anything. Q. So who said what to who? A. Stewart -- Vanasse said "Why don't we take the cars?" and Stewart says they weren't worth much --- Q. Yes? A. --- but he was gonna have somebody have a look at it "but it doesn't matter, we'll just give them one more chance anyhow". Q. Who said this business about one more chance? A. Rob Stewart to Michael Vanasse. Q. Okay. A. And then on the way down they kept talking to me about how much I was fucking up and I should be making a lot more money, there's no reason for me to be that much behind and --- Q. Okay. I'd just ask you to ---

A. Slow down.Q. --- go back to the conversation that you

overheard, sir. A. Okay.Q. They said "they", meaning the cars, ---


(Cooper)

2008

A. Yeah. Q. --- weren't worth much or weren't worth anything or something. A. That's right, and they were getting one more chance. Q. And was there anything said about what would happen after the chance? A. Well they said they'd just be giving them one chance. Q. Do you recall them saying anything after that point in time, sir? A. I could've but I don't recall at this time, I'd have to check. Q. I think the statements are still in front of you, ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- Mr. Gaudreault.A. It's the one right here. Q. I'm showing you page 37, hand numbered page

8, of the 14th of June '90 statement, sir, which I think you read earlier. Read that whole page.

A. Yeah. Q. Does that assist you in refreshing your

memory, sir? A. Yes it does. Q. After that part of the conversation when they indicated there'd be one more chance, was there anything which followed that? A. Yeah, there was Rob telling Michael Vanasse that they were gonna give them one more chance and if they fuck up they'll deal with them then.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. And this conversation that you overhear, this is as you're travelling to where? A. Yeah, I'm in the back seat and we're on our way to Cumber -- we're on our way to Rockland by then. Q. Okay. And you arrive in Rockland at some point in time? A. Yeah. Q. And where were you headed exactly again? A. At my brother-in-law Rick and my sister Sylvie's place. Q. And did you get out and look at your vehicle? A. Yeah we did. We got out, we went inside the garage, the three of us, and Rob liked what he saw but he'd have Larry Lepine like basically give me a price on it, --- Q. Yes? A. --- how much it was worth and all that. Q. Sir, this was in fulfilment of your debts, you indicated? A. Yeah, that's correct. Q. Do you know of any other occasions when that occurred to anybody that you know? A. Yeah. Jamie. Q. Jamie Declare? A. That's right. Q. And what happened to Jamie Declare? A. Apparently they took his car. Q. Do you know this yourself, sir? A. Yeah. Q. And ---


(Cooper)

2008

A. Rick Mallory came over and picked up the car. Q. Okay. When was that approximately? A. Just before I left. Because Jamie had a small red car like a Mustang or a Capri, the same kind of shape, I don't want to say the wrong name, Mustang or Capri, ---

Q. Yes?A. --- because it's got the same kind of body,

and he also had a Buick Park Avenue or a Buick Electra, ---Q. Yes?A. --- a big car, four-door, and Jamie owed a

little bit of money and Rob took his car away. Q. Which one? A. Jamie. Q. Which car? A. Jamie's car. The Buick. Q. Thank you. Mr. Gaudreault, just one housekeeping matter before I move on to something different - not a housekeeping matter but one different small matter - you indicated that a number of individuals came by your house with Mr. Stewart, in the company of Mr. Stewart. A. Correct. Q. I'm going to show you --- A. Pictures? Q. --- some pictures.

MR. COOPER: I'll check with the Registrar for a

moment. Your Honour, for the record this is a file folder with black and white photographs which


(Cooper)

2008

had tape applied to them in the past with names written on them but that tape has been taped over, and it's previously been Exhibit number 38 ---

THE WITNESS: He came over with this guy there on the ---

MR. COOPER: --- and also 142.

THE WITNESS: --- far right. This one here.

MR. COOPER:

Q. Okay. You're pointing to the --- A. That's right. Q. --- pictures on the far right. A. He wear (sic) glasses, he's got short hair and the same mustache. Q. And you said he came over with this guy. A. Rob Stewart. Q. Okay. And came over where? A. To my house. MR. COOPER: I'm going to ask that this be the next

numbered exhibit, and I'm going to pass it to the jury but the labelling is rather fragile, Your Honour, it's been around for a while.

THE REGISTRAR: It's Exhibit 95, Your Honour.EXHIBIT NO. 95: File folder of photographs

MR. COOPER: I'll indicate to the jury all together that the photograph I'm pointing to is the one Mr. Gaudreault indicated, the gentleman in the top right.

THE COURT: I'm sorry, what's the number again? THE REGISTRAR: 95, Your Honour.

MR. COOPER:


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Now, sir, --- A. And he was the same guy that was also at Romeo and Juliet when we had that big meeting at the table. Q. Which meeting, sir? A. That's the meeting that took place at Romeo and Juliet. There was a meeting that took place there where Michael Vanasse was there, Rick Mallory, Rick Trudel, Rob Stewart, myself, this guy, and a bunch of other guys too that their pictures have got to be around here somewhere. Q. Is that a meeting that we have yet to review, sir? A. That's correct, ---

Q. Okay.A. --- but I just thought I'd mention it for now

anyhow. Q. Thank you. We'll get to there. Sir, the next thing I'd like to show you --- A. That's Rob's calculator. Q. First I'll show you what is marked as Exhibit 10 and 12 - I'll be asking for a new number, Your Honour - but it indicates that they are both Sharp electronic organizers. A. That's right, just like a small laptop where you could do all your financial, then you could pull out the disk on the side and put them into another computer and reload it, or you could plug them into a big computer and just go ahead at it, phone numbers, addresses, what people owes(sic) and all that. Those are Rob Stewart's. Q. Okay. Now on one of them, sir, there's inside what is indicated or described as a RAM card 32? A. Yeah.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. 32K bytes random access memory with battery? A. Yeah. One of them he dropped in the toilet. Q. Okay. There's an eject button here and ..... A. And the disk comes out. Do you want me to do that for you? MR. COOPER: We don't have gloves but maybe we'll

get some for the jury. THE WITNESS: Why? I wasn't supposed to touch it? MR. COOPER: No, the toilet business is what ..... Q. You've managed to extract the RAM card in one of these electronic organizers. A. That's right. He has a plug-in that you could plug from here and go straight up to your computer and transfer everything from there to the major computer so you could keep it on a floppy. Q. And you're indicating ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- I think it's called a Bauss at the top.

A. I don't know what they call it. I know you can plug them in. Q. Okay.

MR. COOPER: I'll just show this to the jury. Q. Now I suppose this is a good time as any, sir, to talk about the type of disk that you extracted here, the RAM card 32. Did you ever have occasion --- A. Yeah, when he dropped it in the toilet I grabbed it.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Actually we'll review this step by step. Where did this - let's just start off this story - where were you initially, sir, on that day? A. At Jamie Declare's place early in the morning. When Rob came in he went straight in the washroom, then all I remember hearing is something "holy shit", "holy fuck", "holy shit" because first I heard kaplush (sic) and then by that time he's fucking hot so I had to get out of there because I wasn't supposed to be cutting Jamie because then he'd know we were freebasing. So I went out the back door by the living room, I just pulled the door, jumped over the fence, went in my house and as soon as I go in my house who's sitting there Michael Vanasse right at the kitchen table. Q. So the initial incident occurs at Mr. Declare's house. A. That's right. Q. And where are you in the house when you hear the kerplunk? A. Fuck, we're downstairs, we were just about to -- we were waiting, eh?, because we got to wait 'til the six comes along, six like keep watch or something, we got to get out of there. As soon as he come in, he went in, then he would've had to do a left to go straight in the washroom because if he makes a right he's in the kitchen, so as soon as he went in "fuck", "shit" "cocksucker" because the kaplunk first, eh?, so I knew fuck I wasn't gonna stick around and wait. Then I went out the back door right away and closed the door and jumped over the fence, then I got a dog in the backyard too, fuck, started barking so I went in through the fucking door and the next thing you know Vanasse is sitting right there. Sorry for the language. That's how I felt.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. You said something about keeping six, sir. What was that about? A. Well, ---

Q. Could you explain what that means.A. --- what am I supposed to do? If I would've

came out of the basement who would've been in trouble, what he hell am I doing up there? Then he would've known we were freebasing again all fucking night.

Q. What does keeping six mean? A. Keep watch. Q. Okay. A. Like, while I do this, you keep six. Q. While you do what, sir? A. While you commit the crime I'll keep six. Known as the six man.

Q. Now, you say you go out your back door and you --- A. Well I went out Jamie's back door. Q. Yes, you went out Jamie's back door and? A. Jumped the fence and the dog started barking, then I opened up the door and Vanasse is sitting right there at the kitchen table, well in the dining room. Q. And what happens next? A. Next it was kind of a shock. Then Stewart came through my door. Q. Which door did he come through, the front or the back? A. The front door. Q. Yes? A. And then he made a right right away, he's right in the washroom, closed the door. I remember hearing the


(Cooper)

2008

phone rang and then there was a real loud argument with I don't know who he was talking to but it was a "bitch" on the phone. Q. How do you know that? A. Because he called -- he said "You fucking bitch, if you think you're gonna get away with it you and your old man you got something coming." Q. "If you think you're gonna get away with it you and your old man you got something coming"? A. Yeah. Q. Did he say anything else to the person on the phone? A. Then he came out of the washroom. Q. Okay. A. Then Vanasse go (sic) "What the fuck? Who the hell was that?" Rob says "Never mind. Never mind." "Well who the fuck was that?" "It was that fucking bitch from Cumber- land" or "that fucking broad from Cumberland", in those words. He says "Don't fucking worry about anything. I'm gonna fucking page Rick right away." So he paged Rick, put his phone on, Rick called back. Then they met Rick at the Romeo and Juliet. Q. Okay. Which Rick are you talking about, sir? A. Rick Mallory. Q. What was Mr. --- A. Well I wasn't gonna ask him any fucking thing that morning. Q. What was his demeanour, Mr. Stewart's demeanour? A. Demeanour? Q. Yes. A. Somebody who's in trouble.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Now, ---A. Eh, the only thing that would make him really

fucking jump off like that would be if you -- I can't say anything because it'll be hearsay, so I can't say anything. Let's skip that one. Q. The calculator, sir, or the pocket --- A. Well he put the calculator in the -- on the table, like I also have a table in the kitchen --- Q. Yes? A. --- and he sort of like put the calculator there and the disk was pulled out, so I just grabbed the disk and put it on top of the fridge right away.

Q. Yes.A. So when he left he just grabbed the calcu-

lator and fucked off, but he never checked to see if the disk was in there so I stashed the disk and there was no word mentioned about it. Q. No word mentioned about it? A. From Stewart, no, never after, they've lost it or what happened or did he leave it here, there was never nothing mentioned about it.

Then when I fucked off to Victoria I went up to a computer place, --- Q. Yes? A. --- brought it over and I had the guy put it in the computer to check it out to see what was in there and when I told him that it was dropped in the washroom the guy started cursing and getting mad at me because I could've wrecked his computer because his computer was worth quite a bit of money and basically just to make it up for it I bought another one and tossed that one in the garbage.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. Okay. And I'm going to show you, sir, what has been marked as Exhibit 152. It's in an envelope with initials R.R. and the 7th of December '94, an Ontario Provincial Police envelope with a property tag on it, and it says it's a Sharp Time-expense Manager 32 kilo byte disk. A. That's correct. Q. You said you bought one in British Columbia? A. Yeah. Q. Does it bear any resemblance to this article? A. That's correct. Q. Is this the article? A. That's the one. Q. What did you do with the article that you bought in Vancouver? A. I gave it to Lou Okmanas, then the fucking idiot sent it to Hong Kong to see if he could break it off, break the codes to get in, but it was a blank so what a waste of time and a waste of money. Q. Lou Okmanas was? A. Chief Inspector. Q. At the beginning of this case. A. Yeah. MR. COOPER: I'd ask that that be the next numbered

exhibit, please. THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit number 96, Your Honour.

EXHIBIT NO. 96: Disk MR. COOPER: Q. Now when you gave that to the police did you tell them it was a brand new disk that you'd ---


(Cooper)

2008

A. No. Q. --- bought? A. No, I never told them. Like they never told me they sent it to Hong Kong to try to find out what was in there. I would've saved him a lot of time and a lot of money if he would've asked. Q. Did you indicate to them what it was? A. Yeah, I told him those were all the records were all kept on this one from Rob and all that because the other one fell in the toilet, if it falls in the toilet it's -- auto-matically it's screwed, you can't do nothing with it, you can never re -- because that's what the guy at the computer place told me, you can do nothing with it as soon as they collected water. MR. COOPER: Tomorrow, Your Honour, we'll have a

zip lock baggie for those calculators and they can stay in the zip lock thing.

THE COURT: All right. MR. COOPER: Q. Now, you had indicated, sir, that there was a page from - just one moment, I just want to get a second opinion - you said there was a page by Mr. Stewart to Mr. Mallory? A. Yeah. Q. And was there any instructions that you overheard? A. Yeah, that they had problems and he wanted to see him right away and see him at Romeo and Juliet and him and Mike were just on their way up there. Q. Okay. Now what is Romeo and Juliet? You had indicated earlier it was ---


(Cooper)

2008

A. Do you know where Montreal Road and Lafontaine is? Nobody? Q. Well, you can't ask questions.

A. Well, okay. Well ..... Q. If you could just describe where it is, sir.

A. Montreal Road and Lafontaine, if you pass it it's l'Hotel de Ville in Vanier, it used to be called l'hotel de ville, it used to be called La Vous before on one side, but then it's like a motel across from the old Lafontaine and it's a bar downstairs that's called Romeo and Juliet. Q. Okay. A. Downstairs. Q. Now you indicated earlier that was also Mr. Stewart's brand for his hashish, that name Romeo and Juliet? A. Yeah. Q. Were you invited to this meeting, sir? Were you invited to the meeting at Romeo and Juliet's? A. Yes I was. Q. And --- A. Because, well, I wanted to get some coke and I needed to go see him, so I paged him and he told me to come down and I went down.

Q. Okay.A. When I got down there he asked me what I

wanted to drink and I don't drink booze so I told him I'll have a glass of Coke so the waiter came, brought me a glass of Coke. Him, Rick Mallory and Rick Trudel got up, Rob Stewart, and they went downstairs in the washroom. Q. Who went downstairs altogether, sir? A. Rob Stewart, Rick Mallory and Rick Trudel.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. How long were they gone, sir, down to the washroom? A. I'd say about 15, 20 minutes. Q. Okay. And --- A. Then after that Rick Trudel and Rick Mallory came back up and Rick told me to go downstairs Rob wanted to see me, so I went downstairs so -- "Can I get some -- first he asked me, "Have you got any coin?" I go "Fuck --- Q. Any which? A. Coin, like money, ---

Q. Okay.A. --- I said "No, I don't have any money."

"What else is fucking new with ya." I said "Well I need some products I could sell and make more money towards paying you off". He says "Yeah, we'll see about that." Q. How long were you down in the washroom with Mr. Stewart? A. About five minutes. Q. And this is after the --- A. After he was down there with Rick Mallory and Rick Trudel. Q. For about 15 minutes. A. Fifteen, 20. Q. What did Mr. Stewart say about "more product", did he reply? A. I think he did but he says he had to think about it first. No coin, you know. Q. And how does that day end, sir, that meeting end? A. He says he'd be seeing me later on that evening and I went home.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. And, sir, can you assist us in terms of when this incident occurred? A. I'd have to recheck. I think it happened on Tuesday the 16th. MR. McKECHNIE: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that

answer. THE WITNESS: I think it happened on Tuesday, the

16th of January. MR. COOPER: Q. It may be of some assistance to you, sir, --- MR. CRYSTAL: Your Honour, I object to that. The

witness has answered the question. Maybe you'll want to excuse the jury but I think the witness has answered the question and I don't think it's fair to have Mr. Cooper raise an alter- nate. We have the evidence.

MR. COOPER: Okay, Your Honour, here's how it went: Mr. Gaudreault asked for assistance. While I was attempting to provide him with assistance he gave an answer that he thought it was a date, quite clear that's a date that both defence counsel have an interest in, and I would like to provide Mr. Gaudreault with the assistance that he's already requested, I think it's only fair to the witness.

THE COURT: Yeah. I agree. I think in these circumstances it's all right.

MR. COOPER: Now having said that, Your Honour, it's ---


(Cooper)

2008

THE COURT: The witness was essentially guessing, perhaps, at this point, so let's get his memory refreshed and then we can get his .....

MR. COOPER: Q. One thing I can provide to you, sir, is your statement of the 14th of June, 1990 in Brockville, Ontario, to officers Riddell and Lamarche, and refer you to the bottom of page 8, which unfortunately the last two lines are very poorly photocopied but .....

Now I can't find anything off the top of my head, Mr. Gaudreault, to assist you on the 21st of March '90 statement, 16 pages long.

A. That's not the one, though.Q. Let's skip a couple of pages ahead, Mr.

Gaudreault, in that same statement. Now we're up to page 10. A. Yeah, right here. Q. And the paragraph after that, sir, you make a reference to the 16th of January. A. Okay. Q. Does that assist you in narrowing the date in any way, sir? A. Yeah it does. Yeah. A week before. Q. I'm sorry, sir?

A. A week before. Q. A week before ---A. The 16th, yeah. Q. --- Tuesday the 16th?

A. Tuesday the 16th, yeah. Q. So that would be some time in the week that starts the 7th and goes to the 13th? A. Yeah, about the 9th.


(Cooper)

2008

Q. About the 9th? A. Yeah. MR. COOPER: Apparently I misheard the witness to

begin with, Your Honour, I thought he said the week before.

Q. So your understanding, sir, your best estimate is that this incident, the meeting at ---

A. Romeo and Juliet.Q. --- Romeo and Juliet's and the incident with

the calculator in the toilet and the "bitch from Cumber- land" phone call ---

A. Yeah.Q. --- all occurred around the Tuesday the 19th

of January, 1990? I'm sorry, the --- A. No, the 9th. Q. --- Tuesday the 9th. A. The 9th. Q. Correct.

MR. COOPER: Your Honour, before I confuse

everybody I think I'd better just stop for the day.As I understand it, tomorrow morning we'll assemble here before we go to the view.

THE COURT: Yes.

All right.


(Cooper)

2008

--- In the absence of the jury

THE COURT: One reason I wanted to assemble was to

tell the jury that it was a sitting of the court

and their conversation was limited as well, that's

the main reason.All right, we're done for today. See everybody tomorrow.

--- Whereupon, at 4:30 o'clock p.m. court was adjourned to reconvene at 10:00 o'clock a.m., Wednesday, November 4th, 1998

* * * * * * * *

Certified correct to thebest of my skill and ability

________________________________Gloria D. Neville, C.S.R.Chartered Shorthand ReporterOntario Court (General Division)


2009

Documents

kangaroojustice.orgkangaroojustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/1998-11-03-Gaud… · Web view--- Upon commencing at 10:00 a.m.--- Accused present--- In the absence of the jury