SK B3 Commission Meeting 3-2-04 Fdr- Draft Minutes w Gorelick Notes 006

8/14/2019 SK B3 Commission Meeting 3-2-04 Fdr- Draft Minutes w Gorelick Notes 006

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Date: May 10, 2004

For: Chris Kojm

Company: 9/11 Commission

From: Jamie Gorelick

Facsimile Number: 202-296-5545

Main Number. 202-331-4063

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terrorism. He added that terrorism is employed by many groups for many reasons; thereal problem America faces is sympathy for al Qaeda in the Muslim world.Commissioner Fielding stated that if the Commission can help people truly understandthe dynamic of Islamic terrorism, it would be a powerful incentive to kecp:the nation onalert. Commissioner Roemer added that this is a war of ideas; the United States oughtnot take on a war with a religion.

O n U.S. Foreign Policy. The Vice Chair noted that the Commission is mandated toexamine American diplomacy. He suggested that the Commission make foreign policyrecommendations that flow from the 9/11 story. Commissioner Gorelick noted thatpeople in the Muslim world evaluate the United States based on their exposure toAmerican commercialism, movies, and the military. She added that the United States hasnot been a benign presence in these societies for the past two decades, and we need moretools than we currently have. The United States also needs a message, and she concludedby urging the Commission to explore when the "national interest",(such as the strongU.S. interest in oil from Saudi Arabia to the exclusion of other considerations) is not inthe "national interest." The Vice Chair added that the national interest is multi-faceted atany given time.

On the Middle East Peace Process. Commissioner Lehman asked if the Commissionshould take on this issue. Commissioner Gorton suggested the Commission stay out ofthis debate. Commissioner Kerrey noted that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been usedby Bin Ladin and al Qaeda. The Vice Chair stated that U.S. foreign policy hasconsequences, and it is important for the American people to understand that. He didn't,for example, recall any opposition to placing U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, but thisapparently was a trigger for Bin Ladin.

On Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The Vice Chair cautioned that the Commission needs to

be careful on the Saudi question, as the attitude toward Saudi Arabia has hardened. Fordecades, the heart of the deal had been oil versus protection of the monarchies. The dealis changing now, and the dialogue is beginning to deepen. He noted that the UnitedStates should never back off on its values. He went on to observe that the ultimatenightmare would be if a radical Islamic regime came to power in Pakistan andgainedcontrol of its nuclear arsenal.-eetamicGionrr Oorclick otnted thai ilm UiuUdhave i Q D U & dto Palu^aii in 199G U n ulii uiatum it did in 2001 you are either with v iagaiast-as.

Commissioner Lehman suggested that the Commission take the issue of Saudi Arabia andfinancing head-on. Commissioner Roemer added that the problem with madrassas should

also be addressed.

On Leadership. Commissioner Kerrey implored the Commission to consider whendiplomacy is no longer an option and when the nation's leaders need to take additionalsteps. Commissioner Gorelick stated that if Presidents Clinton or Bush had asked for adeclaration of war prior to 9/11, they wouldn't have gotten it. Commissioner Kerrey saidthat it is the job of the president to make the case. Commissioner Gorton noted that it will



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be highly controversial to make judgments about what should have been done, addingthat what the Commission can do effectivelyis provide recommendations fo r futurepresidents.

Topic 4: Protecting Security and Preserving Liberties

The PATRIOT Act. Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated that it was within theCommission's mandate to look at the PATRIOT Act. He suggested that the Commissionlook at the level of intelligence before the legislation an d then examine whether thelegislation ha senhanced information sharing. Commissioner Fielding suggested that theCommission outline the debate and make constructive recommendations. CommissionerGorelick stated that there were a lot of PATRIOT Act provisions that are helpful; theproblem is that they vest a lot of power in the government. She suggested that theCommission determine if there is adequate congressional oversight and mechanisms forensuring that these powers are properly used. Commissioners Ben-Veniste and Roemeralso expressed their concern regarding the need fo r proper checks and balances.

O n Data Mining, Privacy. Commissioner Gorton noted that the Markle Foundation hadmade a lot of progress in this area. He suggested that the Commission determine the areasin which it can add the most value. The Vice Chair agreed that the Commission does nothave acomparative advantage in this area and that it ought not be acentral question fo rth e Commission.

Topic 5: National Defense

Commissioner Gorelick suggested that multilateral cooperation be added to this section.

Topic 6: Living in a World of Risk

On Homeland Defense. The Vice Chair stated that a key problem with homelandsecurity is that policymakers are unwilling to make judgments about priorities; to do so istoo hard and very risky. He added that policymakers must make such judgments preciselybecause they cannot protect everything or receive intelligence on every threat.Commissioner Fielding added that devising priority lists runs the risk ofsuch lists beingexploited by terrorists. / / * t~-^f- ^ ' ~ ~ ~ T S""""^~ v **""**" ** i}*~tx""~-

On Public-Private Partnerships, Commissioner Gorelick stated that the problem ofinfrastructure protection was/missingfrom this section. She suggested that th egovernment'shands-off approach to infrastructureprotection in the private sector wasmisguided;businesses d^n't si t down and share vulnerabilities. If the governmentinvested a little money/she added, it would pa y off. The Chair reminded the Commissionof the excellent work that Team 8 member Emily Walker had been doing in this area.



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Commissioner Roemer noted that the basic premise of the legislation Randall Yimproposed at the Drew hearing was good.

Topic 8: Treatment of Suspected Terrorists

On theProsecution

of Captured Terrorists. Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated that thisquestion pushes the bounds of the Commission's mandate, and that the Commissionwould probably need to wait for the Supreme Court ruling before making an y judgments.The Chair and Commissioner Roerner agreed that there would not be enough time todelve into this subject area. The Vice Chair and Commissioner Gorelick stated that theCommission could not ignore the issue, although it should not go into much detail. TheVice Chair added that the Commission should recognize the demands of the war onterrorism. The United States has been condemned by much of the world because there isno legal process in place. Commissioner Kerrey suggested the Commission address thesituation in Guantanamo.

On the 9/11 Plotters. The Executive Director urged the Commission to specificallydiscuss the fate of the captured participants in the 9/11 plot. Commissioner Fielding saidthat the Commission should name the people and state what they did; he was not sure thatthe Commission needed to go further than that.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste stated his concern regarding the limitations on what theCommission could say in the final report because the Moussaoui trial. The GeneralCounsel mentioned that the Levin committee had met once and would consider this andother declassification issues.

Extension. The Chair recounted recent developments with the extension: Last week, theWhile House spoke to the Speaker, and although he was not personally for an extension,they were optimistic that he would go along with it. Over the weekend, the Speaker'sspokesman indicated a change of heart, and then he declared that the Senate bill would be"dead on anivial." Senators McCain and Lieberman attached the Commission's extensionto the highway extension, and after a number of phone conversations, the Speaker agreedto extend the reporting date but not the termination date.

The Executive Director had received assurances from the Speaker's staff regarding anextension of the termination date. The decision could not wait because of the highwayextension was pending and the Senate was about to go out of session. The Chair and ViceChair had ten minutes to make a judgment, and they decided to proceed on the basis ofthese assurances from the Speaker's office.

The Vice Chair stated that the letter from the Speaker was unsatisfactory because it doesnot allow for an adequate wind-up period. Commissioner Roemer stated that theCommission should have secured the extra 30 days before accepting the deal. TheExecutive Director explained that by the time the Speaker had agreed to the July 26deadline, there wasn't enough time to walk him through the issue of a close-down phase.The Chair stated that the Vice Chair and Commissioner Thompson would join him for a



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meeting withthe Speaker tha tafternoon to discuss these o utstanding matters.The ViceChair thanked Comm issioner T hom psonfor his assistance with the Speaker. The ViceChair added thatthe Speaker had heard thatthe Commission was planning to slip past thestatutorydeadline. A t that afternoon'smeeting, they would tell the Speaker that theCommission intendsto honorthe July 26 deadline.

CommissionersBen-VenisteRoemer stated thatthe Commission shouldno t acceptanything less than S.2136.The Vice Chair agreed. Comm issionersBen-Venisie,Gorelick, and Roemer expressedhis concern aboutthe declassificationprocess.CommissionerRoemeradded that the Commissionhas not reached out to theSpeakerenough. TheVice Chair agreed.

Meeting w ith President and Vice President The Chair reported that the White Househad no t changedits conditionsfor meetings withthe President and Vice President. Headded that the Administrationhad suggestedflexibility on the issue of time, but itremained opposed to meetings with the full Commission.

Commissioner Thom pson askedif the Administration'srationale fo r these con ditionswaslegal, as the meetings might give the appearanceof testimony.The General Counselstated that this was the case. C om missioner Roemer suggested thatthe Commissionpostpone this decision,adding that the White House w ould not be able to sustain itspositionin the face of pub lic pressure.The Chairand CommissionerFielding expressedtheir belief thatthe White House w ouldnot change its position.The Chair added thathehad tried repeatedly, and the Administration had not moved an inch.

CommissionerBen-Venisteobserved that the interviews (with staff taking the lead andCommissionersfollowing-up)have gone well, addingthat the staff had done anincredibly good job in this regard. He suggestedthat the Commissionmaintain itsposition of a meeting with the full Commissionand continue its other interviews,particularlywith President Clintonand Vice PresidentGore. The Vice Chair agreed,noting that there was some time beforethe Commission wou ld haveto make a decision.

Rice Testimony. Commissioner Kerrey stated that someo ne needsto testify publiclyfo rthe A dministration. Comm issioner Ben-Veniste wo nderedif the Commission shouldconsidera subpoena.The General Counsel noted thatthe Commissiondoes no t have anargument based on the need fo r information;the need is for public disseminationof thatinformation.The Chair statedthat he wo uld pressure that White Houseas much as hecould, but he wo uldn't votefor a subpoena. C omm issionerFielding said thathe did notknow what purpose it would serve to subpoena someone theCommission knows willresist on a legal basis. He addedthat the Commission cannot say that itneeds Dr. Rice'spublic testimony in order to conductits work.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste againsuggested that the Comm ission voteon a subpoenaandhope that the White House reversesits position. Commissioner Kerrey statedthat he wasno t prepared to vote for asubpoena;it is theAdministration'sloss to preventher publictestimony.Com missioners Go relickand Roemer suggested thatthe Commission allow a



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longer period of time fo r Dick Clarke's testimony. CommissionerBen-Veniste withdrewhis suggestion to subpoena Dr. Rice, but he reiterated the need for a fair andbalancedhearing.

The Executive Director addedthat the staff did not yetperceive the need fo r another

interview.The Chairadjourned the m eeting at 4:30 p.m.


Documents

SK B3 Commission Meeting 3-2-04 Fdr- Draft Minutes w Gorelick Notes 006