Project Camelot John Lear Tells All Transcript - Part 1

8/2/2019 Project Camelot John Lear Tells All Transcript - Part 1

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ProjectCamelot|JohnLearTellsAlltranscript-Part1VIDEOINTERVIEWSVIDEOINTERVIEWSSPECIALREPORTSSPECIALREPORTSAUDIOINTERVIEWSAUDIOINTERVIEWSTheBarcelonaConferenceTheBarcelonaConferenceTheBrusselsConferenceTheBrusselsConferenceTheLosAngelesConferenceTheLosAngelesConferenceTheZurichConferenceTheZurichConferenceCamelotLiveatVilcabambaCamelotLiveatVilcabambaAaronMcCollumAaronMcCollumNEW:THEANGLO-SAXONMISSIONNEW:THEANGLO-SAXONMISSIONBenjaminFulfordBenjaminFulfordDrBillDeagleDrBillDeagleBillHamiltonBillHamiltonBillHoldenBillHoldenBillRyanandKerryCassidyBillRyanandKerryCassidyBobDeanBobDeanBoriskaBoriskaDrBrianO'LearyDrBrianO'LearySgt.CliffordStoneSgt.CliffordStoneDanBurischDanBurischDanShermanDanShermanDaneTopsDaneTopsDavidCorsoDavidCorsoDavidIckeDavidIckeDavidWilcockDavidWilcockDuncanO'FinioanDuncanO'FinioanElizabethNelsonElizabethNelsonErichvonDnikenErichvonDnikenGaryMcKinnonGaryMcKinnonGeorgeGreenGeorgeGreenGordonNovelGordonNovel'HenryDeacon''HenryDeacon'JaneBrgermeisterJaneBrgermeisterJamesfromWingmakersJamesfromWingmakersJimHumbleJimHumbleJimMarrsJimMarrsJimSparksJimSparksJohnLearJohnLearJohnRobieJohnRobieJosephFarrellJosephFarrellKlausDonaKlausDonaLeoZagamiLeoZagamiDrLenHorowitzDrLenHorowitzLuca

ScantamburloLucaScantamburloMarciaSchaferMarciaSchaferMiriamDelicadoMiriamDelicado'Mr.X',theUFOarchivist'Mr.X',theUFOarchivistPatrickGerylPatrickGerylPeterLevendaPeterLevendaDrPetePetersonDrPetePetersonDrPaulLaVioletteDrPaulLaVioletteRalphRingRalphRingRicardoSilvaRicardoSilvaRichardHoaglandRichardHoaglandDrStevenGreerDrStevenGreerTheCrystalSkullTheCrystalSkullTonyDoddTonyDoddWadeFrazierWadeFrazierJohnLearTellsAll:transcript-Part1

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JohnLearTellsAll-Part1LasVegas,Nevada,April2008(continuedinPart2,Part3andPart4)

JohnLear:Absolutelywouldbeprobablywhattheyregoingtodo....Theyregoingtoputahologramandsay,oh,werebeingattacked,youknow,byaliens,ah,wevemadeadealwiththeambassador.AndhesaysthattheyfeelthatEarthisathreatandthat-butifyoualltakeall,any,weaponsyouhaveandturnthemin,thatthattheyll

giveusasecondchance...J:Iwouldtakethemandfreezetheminapositiontwentymilesoutat7,000feet,at560mph,putthemintheseat,say,youknow,andthengivethemtwominutesoflookingatthehorizons,showthemwheretheWorldTradeCenteris,andahsay,ImabouttoreleaseyouandwhenIdo,ah,youllhaveaminuteandfiftysecondstohitdeadcenter.Its,itsimpossible.Attheheightofmycareer,asproficientasIwasineverykindofairplane,theresnowayIcouldhavedonethat,Imean,itsjusttoocomplex.


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J:Itsthesamethingwith2012.Itsjustgoingtobeayearlikeeveryotheryear.Weregoingtohave,tocontinuetohavethesewars.Wewillprobablyhaveanuclearwar,youknow,butthingsarejust,youknow,goingtogoalongfine.KerryCassidy:AndIevenhaveahunchthatyoumighthavebeenpartofMJ-12,atonepoint...J:ItwasDecember6th,of1988.Bobcomes,sitsdown,and[pauses]hesays:Isawadisktoday,andImwritingoutchecksthere,youknow,andImnotpayingattentionandIsayWHAT?HesaysIsawadisktoday,andI,Adisk,theirsorours?Andhesays,theirs.Isaid,YouwenttoGroomLake?AndhesaidYeah.AndIsaid,WhatareyoudoingHERE?Isaid.Obviouslytheyregoingtofollowyou.Whydontyoujust,youknow,workthereforawhileandthencomeandtelluswhathappened?Andhesays,BecauseIveseenyoutakesomuchcrap,overthepastsixmonthsaboutthis.Imtellingyouitsreal,Isawit,Itouchedit.J:Imlookingathim,saying,What,what,what?Hesaid,John,youwillneverknowwhatitsliketoseeyourfirstalien.Isaid,Yousawone,yousawone?Yup.Isaid,Itcouldnthavebeenadoll?Itcouldntabeen...No!Itwasone.And,youknow,thesedaysyouaskhimthatquestionhesays,Well,Idontknow,couldabeenadoll.Theyweredoingallthisweirdstuff.Butthatnight,thatsexactlywhathesaid.

J:Youknowthedeal,thewaysecuritylikethatworks,is,whentheygiveyouaclearanceandwhenyouredeepinsidelikethat,theytellyou:Look,John,wevegivenyouthisclearanceand,ofcourse,weexpectyoutokeepitsecret.Butweknoweveryonceinawhile,youmayaccidentallymentionsomethingataparty.Youmayhavehadtoomuchtodrink-andyouthinkitwouldbeinterestingtotalkaboutthis-andwejustwantyoutoknowthat,youknow,wedontreallycare.Wewonthurtyou.But,wewillkillyourwife,yourchildren,yourmom,yourdad,yourparakeet,yourdog...

Startofinterview

KerryCassidy:Hi,ImKerryCassidyandthisisProjectCamelotandwe'reveryhappytobereturningtoseeJohnLear,anddoaretakeandanewinterview,toget...hesgoingtotellall,basically.Isthatright,John?JohnLear:Yeah.K:Youregoingtoabsolutelycharmusand,anddazzleuswithnewinformation.J:ImgoingtotellwhatIknowuptothispoint.K:Okay.J:AndImnotsayingitsabsolutelyironclad-whatsreallygoingon-butitswhatIthinkisgoingon.K:Great.

J:ButIdfirstliketosay...Icantbelieveitsbeentwoyearssincewedidthis-itseemslikeonlyaboutsixmonths.Butfirstofall,letstalkaboutwhathappenedatATS.Whatdoyouknowaboutit?K:Okay,Iknowyou,youvebeenbanned.Thatstheextentofit,andwedontactuallyknowwhy.Whatweknowaboutitisthat,orwhatwethinkweknowisthatitsaCIAfrontandmanagedbytheCIA,soifyouvebeenbanned,itmightbethatyouregettingtoohot.J:ThatswhatIthink,andwhenIfirstjoinedATS,maybethreeyearsago,Ithought,youknowwhat,thisisjustacollectionpointforwhatpeoplethinkisgoingon.SothatTHEYKNOWwhatthegeneral


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publicthinksisgoingonandtheyhaveabunchofdebunkerstherethatare,youknow,paidtogointhereandsomebodytalksaboutsomethingandtheysayoh,no,no,hereswhatreallygoingon.Youknow...K:Right...J:...sotheygenerallyjustinfluencepublicthought.Butthen,Istartedtothrowsome,youknow,interestingstuffinthereandtheydidntsayanything,soIthought,wellmaybeitsok.K:[Chuckles]J:So,startingaboutfourmonthsago,Istartedthrowingsomereallysecretstuffinthere,whichIlltellyoulater,andithastodowithNavysubmarines.Ithastodowithwhatthespaceshuttlesdoandthen,prettysoon,youknow,Imgone.AndthemechanicsofexactlywhyImgoneisJeffRitzmannandDavidBiedne,weretwoofthemainMeierdebunkers.Now,theMeierstoryistrue.Theresnodoubtaboutit.K:Ohyeah,absolutely.J:Hetookpictures,hewentonrides.Idontcarewhetheryousaythat,youknow,Therewerepicturesofdinosaurs,orTheladycameoutofSearsMagazine.Thatsallcontamination.Thefactis,itwastrue.Andso,IreallydonthavetimetosupporttheMeierthing,otherthan,inthethread,Iwouldcomeupeveryonceinawhileandsay,Heylook,youknow,Imbusywithotherthings.IfIhadtime,

youknow,IdtellyouexactlyhowtheMeierthinghappenedandwhyIbelieveit,butallIwanttotellyouis:theMeiercaseistrueandJohnLearbelievesitstrue,andthatsthebottomlinethere.AndImtellingyou,IwouldgethitSOhardonATS...pagesandpagesofpeopleknockingme,particularlyJeffRitzmannandDavidBiedne.Sooneday,Igotalistofeverything,alltheinsultstheymadeofme,andthereweresixteenofthem.AndIputthem,youknow,attheend;Isaid,Youknowitsfunnythatanyotherthread,peoplewouldbetakentotaskforinsultinganotherperson.Butapparently,ontheBillyMeierthreaditsokaytoinsultJohnLear.AndIputthesesixteenthings.WellthatwasonaSundayevening.MondaymorningIwakeup,gotolog

on,andheresSkepticOverlord...whatshisname,Bill...BillRyan:BillIrvine?J:BillIrvine.B:MarkAllenistheotherone.J:Says,youknow,wevepost-bannedyouhereuntilyoucanprovethatwhatyousaidthatRitzmannandBiedneposted,wastrue.Wevehadourbestmoderatorsandtheycantfindasinglequotethatwastrue.Soallweneedisyourhelp.AndImthinking,Holysmokes,Ijust,youknow,gotallthat,copiedallthatyesterday.So,Istartedtoworry,becauseitneverevenoccurredtometogobackandchecktoseeifitwasstillthere.K:Wow.

J:Ijustassumed,ifBillIrvinesaiditwasntthere,andhismoderatorssaiditwasntthere,thenitwasntthere.Andso,whatIthoughtwasoneofthemoderatorswasinonitanditsgone.AndtheonlyhopeIhaveofrecoveringit,isgoingintothearchives.Sothatwaslikeabouteightinthemorning,andthewholedaylong,heresBillIrvinecomingback,everytwohours,John,youknow,wecantfindanyofthis.Weneedyourhelp.Youknow,withafewlittleminordigsinit.SoImwaitingforRonSchmidttogetoffworkatsix,sohecanshowmehowtogointothearchives.So,finally,justbeforeIwentover


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toRonSchmidtsthatMondayaboutfiveoclockIsaid,Youknow,ImjustgoingtotakealookandbeSUREthatitsnotthereandIfoundeverysinglequotestillthere.SoIlaboriouslytookthetimetocopyeveryone,andpasteitonthisonepieceofpaperexactlywhereitwas,sendittoBillIrvine,andhesendsmebackane-mailsays:Jeffadmittedit,itsadonedeal.K:So,inotherwords,themoderatorswerekindoflikeincollusionwiththisguy,Jeff....J:No,no...itturnsoutthatnoneofthemwerecolluding.K:Theydidntknow?J:Itturnsoutthateverythingwasstillthere.ButIrvinesaidallhisguyscouldntfindthosequotes.K:But,butthatswhatImsaying.Iftheycouldntfindthequotes,thentheysuddenlyfoundthem,theninacertainsenseitsoundsliketheyreworkingwithJeff.J:Thatcouldbe.Anyway,Billsaid,Ifweallagreetokeepthisbetweenus.Isaid,No,Idontagreetokeepthatbetweenus.IwanteveryonetoknowEXACTLYwhathappenedhere.Youknow,yousaythisisAboveTopSecretandweretryingtogetallthisinformation.Whyshouldthislittlefeud,inwhichyouvecausedmeanentiredayofgrief,andreally...ItoldBill,Isaid,Ivebeenpostingherefortwoyears.IspendeighttosixteenhoursansweringquestionsonATS.Andyouaccuseme

offalsifyinginformation?ImeanthatsINSANE.SoIwouldntagreenottoshutupandthey,theydidntletmeonso....K:Soitsoundsliketheyreplayinggames.J:Yes.SotheyhadalotofpeopleaskaboutJohnLear,andfinallyonSunday,thefollowingSunday,theyletmeonjustlongenoughIcouldgetinmytwocentsworthandthenIwasbannedforever.ItwasobviousthatATShasbeenaclearinghouse.Theywantedtheinformationthatthepublicgot,toseeiftheycouldinfluencethat.Theywerentinterestedinhavinggoodstuffcomeoutthere...K:Right.J:...thatthepubliccouldsay.AndImtellingya,IwastellingsomegoodstuffandIwasgettingawaywithit!Anditwas,really...K:Well,letsgetthatgoodstuffonheretoday.

J:...itwasreallysurprising.K:Andwellgetaroundthat.J:Theywerelettingmegetawaywiththisstuff.Andah,because,youknow,Iknowwhatsgoingon.Andsothenitrapidlycametoahalt.SonowwevetalkedtoseveralpeopleatATSandtheysaidnobodygetstoputanymoregoodstuffon,youknow,itsgottobebackedupahundredpercentortheyrebannedandtheirpostisdeleted.J:IthinkthecrowningblowiswhentheyrolledinJimOberg.AndJimOberghasbeenNASAsfrontman,youknow,forthirtyyears.Heknowseverythingabouteverythingand,whenwegotintoadebateontheneutralpoint-whichIlldiscusslater-whichabsolutelyproves

thattheres64%gravityonthemoon.IgotJimObergandIllreadyoutheexactthinghecamebackwith.Youknow,hewasstuck.Therewasnothingmoreforhimtosay.Hewasdoneforandthatswhenthingsstartedtogodownhill,andIllreadyoutheexactthingJimObergsaid.K:SoJohn,whatsgoingtobeyourapproachatthispointthatyourebanned?Because,inaway,thatwasthekindofaplacewhereyoucouldconnectwiththepublic.Areyougoingtojoinanother...J:Ipostonfourlittleforums,andanybodythatcallsandasks,Igivethemtheseforums.Anditsnobigdeal,thereslike300onone


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and80onanother.Andmybagisnotreachingalotofpeople;itsreachingtheveryfewthatareinterestedinwhatsgoingon.Andthatsnotathreattothegovernment,really.Idontthink.K:[Laughs]Okay,well,thereareplentypeoplethatvisitforumsthatdontlogon.So,soitsgoodnewstoknowthatyoureactuallystilloutthereandstillposting.J:Yeah,thestuffthatweregoingtotalkabouttodayisthestuffthatscurrentontheseforums.OneisOpenMinds;andtheotherisAmericanConspiracy;theotherisFantasticForum;andIthinktheresoneother.AndthenIhaveawebsitewithRonSchmidtthatscalledthelivingmoon.comandItryandkeepallthestuffthatwefindoutonthere.K:Okay.B:Thelivingmoon.comisanexcellentwebsite.Iwanttosaythisfortherecord.TherearenotthatmanywebsitesthatweatProjectCamelotwouldbewillingtorecommend,butthatsagoodone.J:Okay,letme...B:Avery,verygoodone.J:...tellyouabouttheoriginofthelivingmoon.comwas.WhenIpostedtheoriginalHUGEmegabytepicturesofthemoononATS;inotherwords,IsentthembyDVDto...whatshisnamethere?B:Bill?Mark?

J:No,theotherone,Mark,andhepostedthem.Forthefirstweekpeopleweresaying,WellIdontseeanything,youknow,John,andIdontseewhatyouseethere,youknow,andeverything.AndthenthisguycalledZorgonstartedtoseethestuff.AndsoIwouldleadhimtoitandIdidntleadhimanywhere,youknow.Ididntsay,Wellhereitis-becauseyoucantdothat.Yougottoletthemfindit.AndZorgonstartedcomingupwiththestuff.AndTHEN,hestartedfindingmorethanIdidandIsaid,youknow,wegottomeetandImthinkingHolyshit,thisguylivesinNewJersey,youknow,andImgoingtohavetogetbackthere.Itturnsout,youknow,helivesacouplemilesdownthestreet!K:OhmyGod,thatsgreat...

J:[Laughing.]Sohecomesuphere,youknow,westarttradinginformation.Andhealreadyhadawebsite,youknow,havingtodowithmedievalstuff,sowejustmadewww.thelivingmoon.comapartofthat.Andtheinformationjuststartedtocomeinfromallkindsofsources.K:Right,yeah.J:Sources,Ihadnoideahowtheygotthestuff.B:Yeah,yeah.J:ButalotofstuffontheRussianblackships,anditjustkeepspouringin...B:Itsagoodsite.Itsagoodsite.J:10%ofthestuffispostedontherejustbecausewedonthavethetime,youknow,wedliketohaveasecretary,butbothofusare

brokeyouknow,sowedonthave,youknow,wecantputitALLonthere.Soweputthemostinterestingstuffonthere,andRonworksdownattheconventioncenter.Hestheguythatsetsthingsupandtakesthingsdown.Buthecomes....K:Well,thatsfabulous!J:...hecomeshomeandeveryonceinawhilewegettogether,youknow,likeonceaweek,andtalkaboutwhatweregoingtofocusonbutthats,thatsit.B:Letmesharethise-mailwithyou,John.ThisisfromsomebodycalledGaryDix,whousedtoworkverycloselywithSimon,Markand


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Bill.IntheearlydaysofATSand,afteramajordisagreement,hequit.HesbasedinNewZealand.Andhesentmealonge-mail.J:Andthedate?B:Acoupleofyearsago.J:Yeah.B:AndIlljustreadoneofthepertinentparagraphs:Astheybecomemorenegativeoveratopic,theybegintodrivethethreadsusingsockpuppets,fakemembernames,astheydontwanttobeseentobeguidingdirectionsinthethreadsasmodsandadmin.ThisistheSTYLEofmodsandadmininthefuture-usingfakeaccountstoallowthemtofreelyposttheirideas.Wegotthisonrecordfromaguyontheinside,okay?Now,ofcourse,theylldenyit.ButifyouvegotsomeonewhoseusernameisSkepticOverlord,whatdoesthattellus?J:Yeah.B:Youknow,Imean,thetruthisinplainsight.ATSisaskepticalsite.ATSisadebunkerssiteandsowhatdoyoudebunkersdo?Itsthisphrase,whichyouknow:youkeepyourfriendscloseandyourenemiescloser.J:Yeah.B:Soyoureanenemyofanyonewhowantsthetruthreallyout.Sotheybringyouinreallyclosewiththeintentionofcontrolling

publicopinionaboutyou.J:Right.B:Itnearlyworked,butnotquite.J:[Laughs]B:BecausetheymadethemistakeofcallingJohnLearaliar.AndJohnLearmaybeallkindsofthingsbutJohnLearsnotaliar,andeverybodyknowsthat,whoknowsanythingaboutJohnLear.J:Butwhatarethechancesof,youknow,mepostingthosepicturesonATS,youknow,andtheONEGUYwhostartsseeingthegoodstuff,lives,youknow,3or4milesdowntheroad.Imeanitsreally,reallygreat.

K:Itsfreaky.J:Butthatshowsynchronicityworks.K:Absolutely.J:And,andeveryDAY,Iseeanexampleofsynchronicity.K:Well,thatmeansyourereallypluggedintowhatsgoingonhere,andthatyouregettingsomeunseenhelp,basically.Imeansynchronicityisjustbeinginsynchwiththeuniverseinamajorway...J:Right.K:...andeverythingisgoinginthatdirectionbasically,thedirectionofdisclosureandtruth.So,onthatnote,letskindofdiveinhere.Weknowyouvegotalotofstufftocovertoday,sowherewouldyouliketogofirst?

J:FirstweregoingtocovertheNibiruscam,PlanetX.K:Okay.J:Itisnotthere.Itisnotgoingtocauseaproblemin2012.Itsascam.Iseeitworkingfromeverydifferentdirection.ItsjustaPLOTtokeepus,youknow,inastateofanxiety.Everythingsgoingtogoalongjustasnormal.Theworldisntgoingtodisintegrate.Theresgoingtobenoplanetthatcomesandshakeseverythingup.Everythingsgoingtogoalongjustfine.K:Ok,areyousayingthisingeneralabout2012?J:Yes.


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K:Orareyousayingthis...J:SpecificallyaboutPlanetX....K:PlanetX...J:...orNibiru,orwhateveryouwanttocallit,AND2012.2012islike...K:Itsjustayear.J:Iswhat?K:Isitjustayear,inyouropinion?J:Yeah,itsjustlike,whatdidwecallthis...Y2K?Youknow,weallgottogetgeneratorsandfoodandeverything,andeverythingwasgoingtocollapse.Thesamethingwith2012.Itsjustgoingtobeayearlikeeveryotheryear.Weregoingtohave,tocontinuetohavethesewars.Wewillprobablyhaveanuclearwar,youknow,butthingsarejust,youknow,goingtogoalongfine.Theresgoingtobenoabsolutely...K:Wheredoyougetyourinformation?Areyoujustcomingtothisconclusioninyourownheadbyputtingtwoandtwotogether,ordoyouhaveaninsidesourcethatstellingyoustuff?J:Noinsidescoop.Ihaveneverhadaninsidescoop.Mostallofmyinformation,youknow,Ivecomeoutwithitmyselfanditsmorefunlikethat.BecausepeoplesayWheredoyou...whotoldyouthatgravityonthemoonwas64%andtheresanatmosphere?Well,theresalotofbooksouttherebut,basically,Imtheguythatcameoutand

saidYup,theresgravityonthemoonandtheresanatmosphereonthemoon.Asfaras...K:Well,why,whyshouldwebelievethatyouwouldknowthis?Imeanisitbecauseyouwereapilot,becauseyouretrainedinacertainway?Whereisyourtrailcomingfrom?J:Well,asfarasthegravityonthemoon,weregoingtotalkaboutBullialdus-Newtonlawofinverse-square.AndweregoingtotalkabouthowusuallyNASAconvincesyou,usingNewtonsgravitationallaw,whichassumesthemassoftheearthandthemoon-thatsnotwhatyouwanttouse.YouwanttouseNewton-BullialdusorBullialdus-Newtonlawofinverse-square,becauseyoudonthavetoCAREwhatthemassis.Allyouneedtoknowiswhatthedistanceis,andwheretheneutralpointis.Ifweknowwheretheneutralpointisandthesize

oftheplanets,wecanfigureoutwhatthegravityis.Now,weknowwhattheneutralpointisbecause:1)WernhervonBrauntoldus;2)thecrewofApollo17toldus;and3)oneoftheotherApollomissionstoldus.Anditsabout38,000or39,000milesand,ifyouworkoutthelawofinverse-square,itcomesouttobethatthemoonis64%gravityoftheEarth.Thatsallthereistoit.Andyoudonthavetoassumemass.AndasfarasPlanetXandNibiru,thatsbasedon65yearsoflisteningtobullshit,youknow,aboutwhatscomingonandwhatdisasterscomingnext.Itsjustyouknow,Iknowthattheresnothinggoingtobehappening.K:Okay,letmeaskyoubecausewehaveseveralwitnessesthataregivingusevidence...

J:Iknowyoudo,Iknowyoudoandthatswhy...K:...alsosomesecretevidenceinthisregardnow,werecertainlyinquestionaboutthis.Wevenotreachedaconclusionourselves.However,firstofall,therestheSouthPoleTelescope.TheresalsotheinterestoftheVaticanandtheJesuitfootagethatcameout,youknow,with[Cristoforo]Barbato.Maybeyouveseenthefootage,maybeyouhavent.Maybeyoucangiveussomebackgroundonwhyyouthinkthatfootageisnotaccurate,ornotreal.Andthentheresalsotheheatingoftheplanets.Howdoyouaccountfortheheatingoftheplanetsandtheactivityonthesun,whichisgoingtoreachapeakin


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2012asbeingmeaningless?J:Areyoutalkingaboutglobalwarming?K:Butitsnotglobal,andDavidWilcockandRichardHoaglandhavegonethroughplanetbyplanet,andshownyouhowtheresincreasedactivityallthewaydown,andtheresactuallyheatingup.B:Theresinformationinthepublicdomainthateveryplanetinthesolarsystemisheatingup.Itseemstobeconnectedwithsolarcycle24.Andthensomepeoplesaythattheressomethingelsethatsdrivingthis.J:Iwouldntevenpayanyattentiontoit.K:[Laughs]J:Everybodygetstobelievewhattheywant.In2012youcouldlookbackandsayJohnLear,onApril2nd2008saiditwasallbullshit,andifitwasnt,youknow,Iwaswrong,butIthinkitsatotalscam.K:ImsureyouverubbedshoulderswiththeIntelcommunity.Youknowthatyourofficeisbugged-youvedemonstratedthattous.Theresareasonwhytheybugyou.Imean,firstofall,youknow,youreapilotfromwayback,youreincrediblyrespected,youhaveabackgroundmilitary,slightly,youknow.AndIevenhaveahunchyoumighthavebeenpartofMJ-12atonepoint.J:[Laughs]K:[Laughs]Okay,soyouveknownalltheinsiders.Youknow...tell

mewhyitisthatyouresayingyouhavenoinsidesourcessuddenly.Imean,youknow,BobLazar...J:Letmecorrectthat.Letmecorrectthat.Ihadthreeinsidesources.OnewasJimmyDoolittle-andhestheonethattoldmyMomMJ-12existed.Thatstoryisimportantbecause,whenIwasfirstgettingintoallthisin1987,andShanderaandMoorecameoutwiththesupposedEisenhowerbriefing,andittalkedaboutMajestic12.Ineededtoknow,isthistrue?AndtheonlypersonthatIknewthatwouldhaveknownbeyondashadowofadoubt,wasJimmyDoolittle.K:Okay,whosJimmyDoolittle?J:GeneralJimmyDoolittle,thatshimbehindyoutakingofftobombTokyo.TakingofffromtheHornet,incidentally,thesameaircraftcarrierthatpickedupApollo.AndthatletterthatyouseeiswhenI

hadmyaccidentalairplanecrashinGeneva,Switzerland,in1961andnearlykilledmyself.Hewastheonlyonetotakethetimetowritemealetterandsay,John,weallmakemistakes,Ivemademany,plentyofthem,butitsimportantthatweprofit,itsonlyimportantthatweprofitbyourmistakes.Andhetookthetimetowritethatwholeletterso,IhaveitframedwithhimtakingoffontheHornettobombTokyo.GeneralJimmyDoolittlewasanincredibleGeneral-veryrespected,andhewasinvolvedwithMJ-12uptohisears.HewasNOTapartofMJ-12,buthewasaroundourhouseinSantaMonica,22214thStreet.HeliveddownonThirdStreetwithhiswife,Josephine,andtheywereinourhouseJUSTLIKEVandenberg,justlikeTwining-allthoseMJ-12

guyswerearoundourhouse.But,youknow,IdidntknowthatatthattimeandmyfatherneversaidmuchaboutUFOsotherthanthathebelievedthem.AndIneverfoundoutanyotherstuffuntillikeIgotintothisstuffin1985,86andDoolittlesnamekeptcomingup,timeaftertimeaftertime.Now,IknewhimandIhave...theresautographedpicturesallaroundthisdenofJimmythatIdaskedfor.AndIsawhimatvarious...likeSETP,whichisSocietyofExperimentalTestPilots,


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andtosayhelloandeverything,butIdidntreallyknowhimthatwell.ButIknewthatmyMomknewhimandshewasasclosetoJimmyDoolittleasanybodyinherlife,JimmyandJo.Now,hiswifepassedawayinthe1980ssometimeandhewasretired,livedinCarmel,California,andIKNEWthat.AndIalsoknewthatmyMomtalkedtohimeveryonceinawhile.SoIknewthattheonlywayIwouldhaveofdeterminingwhetherMajestic12wastruewastogethertoaskhim.Andittookaboutsixmonthstogetittogether,becauseshesalwayshesitant,youknow,todostufflikethat.ButIfinallygothertodoit.Andshecalledupandshesaid,Jimmy,howreyoudoinganddadadada,andbytheway,Johnsinterestedinthisstuff,andIjustwanttoknow,wasMajestic12real?AndhesaidYes,Moya,butIcantsayanythingaboutit.Thatformewas,youknow,thebeginningofeverything-because,ifMajestic12isreal,itsapossibilitythebriefingpapersarerealand,iftheywerereal,theneverythingelsewasreal.K:Right,becausewhywouldyouputtogethersomethinglikeMJ-12underTruman,toinvestigateormanagetheUFOstoryunlesstherewas,youknow,iftherewasnoUFOstory,right?TheresgottobeaUFOifyouregoingtoputtogetheragroup.

J:Right.Idhavetosaythatwasmyfirstimpression.K:Sonowtellmesomething.Youmustknowthehistorytosomedegree.Imeanyouvebeenaroundalongtime,youveseentheminoperation.Youknow,youknow,youmusthaveMETsomeoftheinsidersandIhavetosaythatIthinktheywouldhaverecruitedyou.AmIwrong?J:No,I...K:Younevergotanoffer?J:No.Ijust,youknow,Iwasapilot.IdidntknowANYTHING,youknow,until1984whenI,somebody...K:Butyouknowalotnow.J:Yeah.K:Lookatthisoffice,itsincredible.

J:Yeah.Youknow,uptill1984,mysoleinterestwasSR-71,F-19,StealthFighter...K:Okay.J:...stufflikethat.Asamatteroffact,youcangoontheinternet:JohnAndrews,whowasVicePresidentofTestors,andeventuallymadetheSportModel.K:Right.J:YouknowheandIhadlettersgoingbackandforth.Hedsay,Hey,yououghttolookintothisflyingsaucerdeal.AndIdsay,No,itsbullshit,youknowIdontneedtowastemytime.ThatlettersontheInternet.Youknowmyinterestdidntstarttillin1985,Ithink.Wehada...IusedtorunthereunionforalltheSoutheastAsiapilotsthat,youknow,thatworkedforCIAandIdrunthereunion

hereinLasVegas,calledChinaPost1.AndwedhaveiteverytwoyearsandONEoftheseyears,andIthinkitwas1985,afriendofmine,whosenamewasGregWilson,hewasaRaven.TheRavenweretheAirForceguystheydtakeoutoftheAirForce,sheepdipthem,togivethemcivilianID.TheydcomeintoLaosandtheydfly,youknow,the01sandtheyweretheRavensandtheydgooutonthePDJandallaroundanddoallkindsofamazingthings.Anyway,heattendedthereunion.HisnameisGregWilsonandhegottalkingtohim,Hey,where-allyabeen?Andhesaid,Well,youknow,hereandthere,stillflyingA-10s.Ispentatourat


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Bentwaters.Isaid,Bentwaters?K:[Chuckles]J:Thatwastheplace,supposedly,in1980,thattheflyingsaucerlanded.Hesays,NoJohn,notsupposedly-itdid.Hesaid,IdidntgettoseeitbecauseIwasconfinedtoquarters,butIknowtheguyswhodid.Isaid,What?Isaid,Youretellingmethisstuffisreal?Hesaid,Oh,yeah.SoheresaguythatIflewwithinSoutheastAsia,hadntseenforyears,IgivehimthisoutrageousquestionaboutBentwaters.Hesays,Yeah,yeah,Iwasconfined.Ididntseeit,butIknowtheguyswhodid.Sothatswhatpiquedmyinterestandthats1985,youknow?So,youknow...K:So,youvegotmore.Youvegotinsiderscomingtoyou,youvegotinsidersthatarefriends.J:Iwouldntsayhewasaninsider;aninsiderlikeisBobLazar...K:Right.J:...andtheonlyotherinsider,therealinsider,Imeantheguy,anditsbeenlike,youknow,ifyouguyswereheretwoyearsago,thatsprobablybeenlikefiveorsixyearsago.IcantrememberwhenImet.Oh,Iknowwhenitwas,yeah,itsbeenalongtimeago.Itsbeenalmosttwentyyears,UsedtoliveupinIdaho.Hewasretired.Hetoldfriendsofminealotmorethanhetoldme,but,justbeforehedied,hecamedowntoVegasandmoreorlesssaid,whatdoyouwantto

know?AndIdidntevenknowwhattoask!K:Andhisnameis?J:Ah...K:Areyouatlibertytotellus?J:No.Because,youknow,thedeal.Thewaysecuritylikethatworksis,whentheygiveyouaclearanceandwhenyouredeepinsidelikethat,theytellyouLook,John,wevegivenyouthisclearanceand,ofcourse,weexpectyoutokeepitsecret.Butweknoweveryonceinawhile,youmayaccidentallymentionsomethingataparty;youmayhavehadtoomuchtodrink;andyouthinkitwouldbeinterestingtotalkaboutthis,andwejustwantyoutoknowthatwedontreallycare.Wewonthurtyou.Butwewillkillyourwife,yourchildren,

yourmom,yourdad,yourparakeet,yourdog,youknow,everybodyelse,butyoullbeokay.Sothatswhypeopledonttalk.Andthenpeoplesay,Hesonhisdeathbed,whywouldnthetalk?Thatswhy.Itsbecausetheymakeitclear-nothimthatsgoingtogethurt,itseverypersoninhisfamilyandthenstartingwithhisbestfriend.Towardstheendofhislife,Isawhimthreetimes.IdrovetoIdahotoseehimtwiceandoncebackhereand,whenIwasinIdaho,hedidnttellmeallthatmuch,buthedidtellmeoneinterestingthingthatNEVERmadesense-untilTHISyearwhenIfindout.TheinformationImgettingisjustgrowingexponentially.EverytimeIgetsomeplace,youknow,andthenImledtosomeplaceelseandit

just...somuchinformationcomingin.Anyway,whathetoldmewasthatheworkedonaproject,aminingmachineforthemoon,andthisthingwasbeingbuiltintheSouthsomewhere.Hedidnttellmewhere,butIwasimaginingArkansasorAlabama,someplacelikethat.Hesaid,John,thisthingwassobig,hesaid,thatwhenIfinishedit,hesaid,Ihaveaprivatelicense.Irentedanairplanejusttogoupandflyaroundtoseehowmammoththisthingwas.AndIsaid,Well,canyougivemeanidea?Hesays,Acres.IsaidWow!Isaid,Howdtheygetittothemoon?And,hesaidIdontknow.


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[laughs]Andthatshowprojectslikethatwork.Hedoesnthaveaneedtoknowhowtheygotittothemoon,hisjobwastobuildit,youknow,andtheyrenotgoingtoTELLhimanyofthat.Thatshowcompartmentalizationworks.Youknow,thatsone...B:Wevebeentoldbysomebody,hetoldusthatProjectLunexandHorizonwerenevercanceledandjustwentblack.J:Absolutely,andProjectHorizonisonourwebsite,right?B:Yes.J:Yeah.Theonlythingwehad.Theres,wegotfourofthephasesofProjectHorizon,exceptone.Ithinkitsnumbertwothatweneed.SoIllshowyouthat,andshowyouwhatwerestilllookingfor.K:Canyoujusttellmeonething?HaveYOUbeenthreatened?J:Never,nevertheslightestbit.K:Okay,alright.Well,so,eitheryouvenevercrossedtheline,youveneverrevealedanythingthatyouwerentsupposedto,oryoudontknowenough.Isthatright?B:Oryouredoingsomeoneafavor.J:OR,somebodysprotectingme.K:Okay,sothelast...J:Butyouareexactlyright,eitherImtalkingthroughmyhatandIdonthavetheREALinformation...K:Or...J:...orsomebodysprotectingme.

K:Doyouknowwho?J:Oh,Ididntsaywhichonewastrue.K:Iunderstand.J:Imean,youknow,Ithinkalotofthisstuffistrue,buthowwouldIknow?Iveneverbeentothemoon.Idliketogo.K:Uhhuh.J:IfIgoandsomebodycanarrangearide...likeBobLazar,hesayshesgoingtohavehisspacesuitonwhilewerestandingintheairlockthere.Andwhenitcomesuplikethathesays,youknow,atleastImgoingtohavesomeairandIllwatchyousuffocate.AndIsaidno,no,Illbeabletobreathenormally.Now,whenpeoplegotothemoon,ittakesthemtwoweeksofdecompressionbeforetheycanactuallygooutandspendsometimethere.

Thefactisyoucangorightthereandbreathebut,youknow,youllgetaltitudesickness.JustlikeifyougotoclimbEverest,youcangorightupthere,youllprobablylivebut,youknow,youllhurtprettybad.Thatswhytheygotothedifferentcampsastheygoup,istogetacclimatizedandthesamethingtothemoon.Ittakesabouttwoweeks.K:Okay.Sotellushowthemoongotwhereitis,because,youknowthatthemoonisasatellite,thatsactuallyafake...J:Right.Itwas.Itsaspaceshipthatwastowedintoorbit.Iwouldsaythirtytofortythousandyearsago.NowthereasonIsaythirtytofortythousandyearsago,isbecauseitsstillwithinthehistoryofman.

[Immanuel]Velikovskytalksaboutthedifferentproselytesandthedifferentcivilizations,thattalkedaboutthetimewhentherewasNOmoonandthen,whenthereweretwomoonsandnowwehaveonemoon.Thisguyhere,NormBergrunwrotetheTheRingmakersofSaturn.ItsanEXCELLENTbook.NormBergrunisVERYqualified;wasforfortyyearsascientificpartofbothNACAandalsoLockheed;retiredfromLockheed,Ithink,aboutfifteenyearsago.Nomorethanthat...K:WhatsNACA?J:Ah,NationalAeronautics,thepredecessortoNASA.


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K:Oh,really.J:NationalAdvisoryCommissionforAeronautics.K:Isee,okay.J:TheywerethepredecessortoNASA.K:Okay.J:Butwhenheretired,hesomehowgotsomephotos,somereallygoodnegativesofVoyager,whichwentbySaturn.Andhesetupalittlelabinhishouse,andhestartedlookingtheseandheendedupwritingRingmakersofSaturn.AndwhatheshowsyouhereiswhathefoundintheringsofSaturn:threevehicles-spaceships-thebiggestofwhichis31,196mileslongand2,422milesindiameter.Weretalkingaboutafairlylargespaceshipthere.NowNormBergrun,whenhewrotethisbookatthebeginning-itsverygood-hesaysNowlook,Imgoingtobetalkingaboutsomestuffthatisveryinteresting,butyoucantskipapage,youcantskipawordthatyoudontknow;youhavetogofromthebeginningtoendoryouwontunderstandwhatImsaying.AndIdidgofrombeginningtoend.Nowsince...K:Okay,butwhenwasthiswritten?J:Ah,thiswouldbe1986.K:Ok,soitsnotthatold.J:NoandIgoseeNorm...K:Anditstalkingaboutahugespaceship.Whobuiltthespaceship?

J:Whobuildsthem?K:Yeah.J:Wedontknowwhobuildsthem.Butanyway...K:Us?J:No,no.Wecouldntbuildanythinglikethat.Wehavesomeamazingstuff,but,wecouldntdothat.K:Okay.J:No,thisissomebodyelse.Butwhattheinterestingpartinthebookandthereasonwhyweregettinghereisbecause,attheendofthisbook,hestartstalkingaboutthemoonandhowthemoonwastowedintoorbit.Becausethepeoplethattowed,that,thatoperatethatstuffandSaturnandalsoIapetus,towedthemoonintoorbit-andhe

goesintohere,explainsexactlywhyhebelievesthemoonWAStowedintoorbit,andhowitwasandhowtheygrabbedontotheMareOrientale.K:Whoareyousayingtowedthemooninto...J:Wedontknow.Whoever.K:...intoplace.Sohedoesntconjectureonwho...J:No.K:...youknow,onwhatalienrace,forexample.J:No.K:Imeanobviously,itsanalienrace.HenryDeacon,oursecretsource,hasalsosubstantiatedthat.Themoonwastowedintoorbit...buthaveyougotanideawhatalienracewasresponsibleforthat?J:No,absolutelynot.

K:None?J:Whatsinterestinghere,anotherinterestingthing,IseeNormeveryyearbecausewhenIgodotheUFOExpoWest,whichistheonlyoneIdo.HelivesinLosAltosHills.AndheswritingaboutIapetus,andIapetusisprobablyaspaceshiptoo.K:Okay.K:Sowevegottogetintouchwiththisguy.J:Youbetter,becausehesonhiswayout.IsawhimlastSeptember,hewasnotwell,hewasfinishingupthebookonIapetus.Buthewasntworkingoniteveryday...


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K:Okay,washeascientist?J:Yes.K:Okay,butdidhe,whodidheworkfor?Imean,inotherwords,hesgovernment...J:Givemeasecondhere.K:HesinNACA,Iunderstandthat,butinacertainlevel,hesrevealingsecretinformation.J:No.Aswhat?K:Well,Imjustaskingyou.Isntthis,wouldntthisbesecret?J:No.No.Thermodynamicist,DouglasAircraft1934-44AeroResearchScientist,NACA/AmesLaboratory1944-1956LockheedMissileandSpaceCompany,VanUys,SupervisorFlightTest1956-68Manager,FlightTestAnalysis,1958-1962ManagerTestPlansandDirection1962-63ManagerRe-entryTestOperations,1966...K:Okay,but...J:Theresallthisstuff,howqualifiedthisguyis...K:Right.J:Thisis...K:Whyaretheylettinghimtalk?J:Why?K:Whyaretheylettinghimdothis?Imean,inotherwords.

J:Whatshesaying?Theresaspaceshipthats,thats31mileslongintheringsofSaturn?K:Soplausibledeniabilityis....J:Sure,whosgoingtobelievethat?K:Okay,okay,alright.Sothats...J:Soanyway,twoyearsago,attheUFOExpoWest,Imean,thatwasSOinterestingbecausenumberone,oneofmylecturesofApollo1,andthefourpeoplethatwereinitandtherewasGrissom,WhiteandChaffeyandthentherewasafourthguy-andhewaspartofthesecretastronautcorps.AndtheREASONthathadtokeepitsecretisbecauseifthey,ifthepublicwereallowedtoknowtherewasafourthguyinthere,thenthey

wouldnot,wanttoknowwhohewas.AndtherewasnopossiblewaythatNASAcouldeverrevealthattherewasanotherguyinthere,causetheywouldhavetorevealthesecretspaceprogram.Andthesecretspaceprogramstartedin1959andtheyretheoneswhowenttothemoonin1962.TheywenttoMarsin1966.All,everythingweknowisacoverforthesecretspaceprogram.K:Oh,yeah.J:Anyway,when,whenIgivealecture,ifIhavetwohours,Ialwaysgiveanhour,andthenletthepublictalktomeforanhour,becauseImgoingtolearnmorefromthenthantheyaregoingtofromme.AndoneofChaffeysrelativesgotupandsaid,John,youreright,weve

alwaysknownthis,therewasafourthman,butwedidntknowwhoitwas.Now,Iknowwhothenameis,butIkeepittomyselfbecause...J:Oh,right.J:...ifsomebodycomestome,youknowandsays,Iknowwhoitis.Iknowwhoitis.Anditsreallyinterestingbecausehissonisacurrentshuttleastronaut.K:Oh,really.J:Yeah.Soanyway,IgotoseeNormtwoyearsago,andintalkingwithhimIsaid:Bytheway,theelectromagneticvehiclethattowedthemoonintoorbit,whereisitnow?Andhesaid,Ithinkitson


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thebacksideofthemoon.SowhenIgothookedupwithRonSchmidt,westartedcollectingphotosonthebacksideofthemoonandwefoundit.ItsinthecraterTsiolkovsky.AndthestoryofhowwediditwassointerestingandhowNASAcovereditup.ThereslikesixdifferentphotosofTsiolkovsky,astheytriedtoairbrushthiselectromagneticvehicleoutifthepicturebymakingitanisland.Andah,butwegotthem.Andwegottworeallygoodphotos.OnewasdiscoveredbyaladywhoworksforusinFlorida,andshediscovereditonathumbnailofTsiolkovsky.Andwhathappened,waswhenNASAwasadvertisingthisparticularphoto,youknow,theyairbrushedthebigone,but,whentheyhadthethumbnail,somebodylookedatthatandsaid,Hey,Imnotgoingtotakethetimetoenlargethat,takethevehicleoutandputitdown-nobodyllnoticeitanyway.Butwenoticedit,anditsgreat,andthatswherewegotthephotooftheEMVonthefarside.Andthen,Apollo15flewoverit,andtheygotsomemoviesofit,anditsjustaquickshotbutitsreallyinteresting.K:Thesecretastronautwhowaskilled,hissonisashuttleastronaut.

J:Right.K:Okay,andthisisinterestingbecauseitsortofshowshowtheybringsomeoneintothefoldwhomighthavesomethingtotelltheworldatalaterdate.J:Right.K:Butifhesashuttleastronaut,hesnotgoingtotalk.J:Right.K:Right,hesinthefold.J:Right.SamethingwithGrissomsson.K:Oh,really.J:Hesintheprogram.K:Seethiswouldbeaninterestinginvestigativeangle,wouldbe,

whataboutallthesonsanddaughtersoftheastronauts?Dotheyallworkforthecompany?J:Yeah,itwouldbe.NowGusGrissom-whenthefirestarted,youknow,everysinglestoryyoureadwillsaythattherewerelikethreewordswerespoken.Chaffeysaid,Fire!SomebodysaidItsgettinghotinhere,butineverysinglestory,Grissomdoesntsayanything.Now,asyouknow,Grissomwasthemosthighlycriticalandvociferousastronautinthatprogram.Hecameoutbeforetheyweresupposedtogoup,hesaid,Therearesixtymajorthingswiththiswrong-howcanwepossiblybeflyingthis?HestheonethathungthelemonovertheApollo.AndNASAhatedhim.NowIvebeentoldbyguysIconsiderinsiders-

andtheresanotherone,callhimNumberFour-thatNASAdidntspecificallykillthoseguys,buttheyletithappen.Theyknewitwasgoingtohappenandtheyjustletithappen.K:Butwhy?J:Well,therewereanumberofreasons:1)Theyneededmoretime.Theyneededtogettheprogrambackonscheduleandtheonlywaytheycoulddothatwastohaveahorrendousaccident.And,theywantedtogetridofGrissom.AndsotheNewYorkTimes-andIforgettheguy-


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brokethestorythenextdaywasthathetalkedtoNASA,andtheysaidthatthetapewasgruesomeofthelastfewminutes.AndofcourseweveallheardthatGrissomdidntsayanything.Weallknowwhathesaid.Hewassaying,youknow,Youbastards,youve...K:OhmyGod.J:...YOUVEKILLEDUSALL.IKNEWTHISWASCOMINGTOTHIS.IHOPEYOUALLWATCHUSDIE.Andjust,reallybad.SoImsurethatswhathappenedandIsawanotherquotejustyesterdayandIcantrememberwhatitwas,abouthowgruesomethetapewas.K:Wow.B:WedliketoaskyouifClarkMcClellandhasgotsomethingtosayaboutthisaswell.J:Yeah.B:WereintouchwithClark,butwehaventmethim.J:Clarksagreatguy.Iveknownhimsince1990.Wevenevermet,butwevealwaystalkedonthephone.Ivealwaystriedtogethisnotes.Hehashisbookready.Hehasthreebooks.Hedoesntwanttopublishoneofthem-hewantstopublishallthree.Idontblamehim.Heknowsalotofstuff.HeknowsmuchmorethanImtellingyou.K:Doyouthinkthathesactuallygoingtogethisbookspublished-aretheygoingtoletthemoutthere?J:Noway!Notachanceinhell.K:[Laughs]Okay.

J:Theonlything...Idliketogetthem,but,youknow,ClarkissopissedandIdontknowwhathappened,butIknowheisTHEinsider,theinsiderofNASA.TheresnobodyinthepositionthatcouldcomeoutandsaymorethanClark.Imean,hewastherefromthebeginning.K:Okay.B:Theyvedonejustabouteverythingbutkillhim,haventthey?Hehasntgotapenny.J:Right.AndIdontknowwhytheyhaventkilledhim.K:Ohright.Yeah,absolutely.J:Anyway,onemorethingImgoingtotellyouaboutNorm,becauseweregoingtogetintoitlater.ItoldNormthelasttime,thisislastyearIwenttotheUFOExpoandboy,Illtellya,Igotsomegoodinformation.Butanyway,IwenttoseeNormandhesnotwelland

heshadseveralsurgeriesandIexpecttohearanydaythathespassedaway.Hes87,andIsaid,Norm,ImthinkingthattheairplanesthatcrashedintotheWorldTradeCenterwereholograms.Andhesaid,John,youreprobablyright,andhereswhy.Hesaid,JustbeforeIretiredIwasdrivingdownontheBayShoreFreewaytoSunnyvale.andhesaid,Ihadafriendintherightseatofthecar.Andhesays,Like,itwasabout8oclockinthemorning,maybe8:15.Hesaid,weredrivingsouthandwesawthisshadowandwelookedup,andhere...hesays,Itwasnta747,butitwasaHUGEfour-enginedairplane,itwasnt200feetaboveus.Andhesaid,Welookedoutat,lookedatthisthinghesaidofcoursewere,youknow,20milesfromSanJose,youknow,and30milesfromSanFrancisco.Theresnopossiblewayanairplanecould,youknow,

legitimatelybeflyingrightthere.K:[Laughs]J:Andhesays,Wewatcheditforabout10secondsanditwent[snapsfingers]justlikeyouturnedalightbulbout.Andhesaid,Soifthatwasthecontemporaryhologram,presentationofahologramhesays,thenyoureright.Anda...K:Oh,thatsveryinteresting.J:...holograph,theholographictechnologyissofaradvancedthatpeoplejustwouldntbelieveit.Buttheotherday,IhadaladythatwashelpingMarileeonacastingprogram.Actually,shehiredMarilee.


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ShesfromNewYork.ShehadtwodegreesfromHarvard.Shewasjustawonderful,smart,receptivelady,andweweretalkingaboutholographsandshesays,Wellletmetellyou,shesaidAboutfiveyearsago,IwasinvitedwithaboutfifteenothertelevisionexecutivesintoaprivateshowinginHollywood.Andtherewasalittleauditorium,itwasntverybig.Itcouldseatlike,maybe,thirtypeopleandthepresentationwascalled,TheFutureofTelevision.Andshesaid,IdontrememberwhetherStevenSpielbergwastherebuteveryoneelsewas.Andshesaiditwasbrightlylitandtherewasastageandapodiumonthestageandweresittingthere,andthisguycomesoutfrombehind,andhesakindofEastGermanaccent,EastEuropeanaccent,whitehair,hasglasses,andhecomesout,andhestartstellingusthehistoryoftelevisionandhowtheycameupwiththefirstcathoderaytube,andhowtheydidthisandhowthey...andhewalksdowninfrontofthestage,walksuponeoftheaisles,hespolishinghisglasses,walksinfrontinfrontofthem,walksbackuptothestage.Andshesays,Itwasprettyboring.Shesays,Afterabouttwentyminutes,hewrapsitupwithsomethingandthatsthehistoryoftelevision.Andheputshisglassesonand,[snapsfinger]justlikealight,goesout.

K:Hedisappeared?[Laughs]Hewasahologram?J:Yeah,andso...K:Ohwow.J:Youknow,thatwassevenyearsago.Sothatswhattelevisioniscomingtois,youwonthaveascreen...K:Right.J:Youlljustturnitonanditllbehappeningrightthere.K:Itsrightthere.Thatsgreat,wellthatmakessensebecausetheYellowBook...J:So,thereasonItellyouthatstory...K:Imeantheyhadtheyellowbook,right?From,what,thecrashin1947?So,andthatssubstantiatedbyDanBurischoverandoveragain.Sothatsa,thatsahologram.Youknow,technology,right?

J:So,thereasonItellyouthatis...K:Theyback-engineeredit.J:...onATS,whenIfirstwentthere,oneofthethingsItalkedaboutwasthattherewerenoplaneson911.TherewerenoairplanesatShanksville...K:Thisisreallydynamitestuff.J:TherewasnoairplaneatthePentagon,therewasnoairplaneattheWorldTradeCenterandImtellingya,whenIstartedtalkingaboutholographs,thedissent,Imeanthecrush...K:[Laughs]J:...ofguysthatwereouttokillme,Imean,itwasamazing,there

wasliketwentyguys,yourenuts,youknow,thisisabsolutely...youredoingadisservicetothe911movement,youknow,tofindoutthetruthyouknow.Youtalkaboutthatandnobodysgoingtobelieveit,butthefactwas,itwasaholographanditwasCGIand...K:Right,socanyoutakeusthroughthat?Takeusthroughwhyyouthinkthatstrue.Andhowyougot,Imean,youreapilot,youcertainlyhaveavoteinwhetherthoseplaneshadthecapacitytohitthosebuildings,becauseourHenryDeaconhastoldussomeveryinterestingthingsalsoaboutthoseplanes.Actually,hethinkstheywereremotecontrolled.IdontknowifTHATStrue,butbasically


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thatplanesdonthavetheabilitytoactuallysteerintobuildingsatthatlevel,Imean,ImnotapilotsoIdontunderstandthelogistics.But,howdidyoucomearoundtothis?J:Okay,firstofallweregoingtotalkabout...Flight11and77didntexistinthebeginning.TheBureauofTransportationStatisticshasnorecordofthemtakingoff,hasno,youknow,soletsforgetaboutthembecausetheydidnotexist.Sonowwerejusttalkingabout[Flight]175andFlight93.Flight93allegedlycrashedinShanksville.Anybodywhohasanybackgroundinaccidentinvestigationoranybackgroundatall,cantpossiblybelievethatanairplanecrashed.Therewasnowreckage.Itjustsimplycouldnothappen.K:Okay.J:Asfaras175hittingtheSouthTower,IjustrecentlyputinacalltoaPanAmericanFlightSimulatorinMiamitoseeifIcouldrenta767-200,whichtheyhave.AndwhatIwantedtodowastakesixcandidates,sixcandidatepilots.Onecurrentandqualifiedinthe767-200;onemaybequalified,butnotcurrent;andthenonemaybecurrentinahighspeedjet,butnotthe767;andthenthelastthree,thesamecurrencyastheallegedhijackers,likeacouplehoursinanApache,aprivatelicense,maybeacommercial,somethinglikethat.AndwhatIwoulddoisinthesimulator,youcantakethemupsothatNewYorkisjustlikeitis.Imeanthebuildingsarethere.Iwould

takethemandfreezetheminaposition20milesoutat7,000feet,at560mph,putthemintheseat,say,andthengivethemtwominutesoflookingatthehorizons,showthemwheretheWorldTradeCenteris,andsay,ImabouttoreleaseyouandwhenIdo,youllhaveaminuteandfiftysecondstohitdeadcenter.Now,theWorldTradeCenteris220feetwide,yougottohittothecenter.Notleftorright,right-tothecenter.Andexplainhowitgoes,andthenIwouldhaveonecamerapointingatthepilotandonecamerapointingatwhatheslookingat.K:Alright.J:Andthensay,[snapsfingers]GO.Andsay,Okaynow,showmehoweasythisis.Youknow,causealltheguysonATS,Oh,Ididthat

inflightsimulator,noproblem,youknow.Its,itsimpossible.Attheheightofmycareer,asproficientasIwasineverykindofairplane,theresnowayIcouldhavedonethat.Imean,itsjusttoocomplex.Firstofall,theairplanecantflyabove560pmh.Itcantflymorethan360,whichisitsVelocityMaxOperating.Maybecouldfly,maybe,thirty,fortymilesanhourfasterthanthat,butatVMOtheclackercomeson.TheclackerisanFAArequiredsafetydevicewhichclacksLOUD:clack-clack-clack,clack-clack-clack.Anditclacksatarateandacyclethatirritatesthepilot,sothathecantignoreit.Hehastoslowdown,youknow.Now,theresnopossibilityahijacker,firsttimeintheairplane,isnotonlygoingto,youknow,flyitat

390,400mph...K:[Laughs]J:...butdoitwiththatclacker...K:Right.J:...anddescendandhitthatthingcenter.Canthappen.No.B:Ihaveaquestionhere,ifImay.J:Yeah.B:Wehaveacrediblewitness,whosaysthattheplaneswerentpiloted,buttheywereremotelycontrolled,likeunmannedvehiclesfromthousandsofmilesaway.


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insanelyridiculous-butalotofpeoplebelievedit.Andthentheotherthingistheyhadtocontrolleddemolitionstocuteachgirderto30feet,soitwouldfitonRudyGiulianistrucksgoingoutoftown.TheWorldTradeCenterwascollapsedbyadirectenergyweapon,beingoperatedfromoneoftheouterspaceweaponsplatforms,andthereasonweknowisbecauseofthesizeofthedustthatwasleftoftheconcrete.Itwasapproximately80microns,andthatswhatadirectenergyweaponcollapseswhenitspointeddown.Thatswhatituses,itscalledmoleculardisassociation.Imean,itjustdisassociatesthemolecularstructureofconcreteandthatswhyallthatdustwasthere.Therewasjustnothingleft.K:Niceone...J:AndthatswhythebasementoftheWorldTradeCenterwasmoltenforsixweeks,isbecause,whenitfinallydoeshittheground,itheatsitupsomuch.Youcanpourasmuchwaterasyouwant,itsnotgoingtocooloffforatime.SoIbelieveallofthiswascontrolledbytheE-4B,theDoomsdayairplane,the747thatwasseenflyingovertheWhiteHouse.Ithinkthereistheonethatdidtheholographicprojection,andtheyalsotransmittedtheCGI,computergraphics,tothedifferentTVchannels,toshowtheairplanesallegedlycrashing.Thatswhywehad

theaccidentalnoseoutononeofthe,ononeofthebuildings.Theyweretheonesthatsenttheallegedcellphonemessages,whichneveroccurred.Theydidallkindsofstuff.TheymadeprobablytransponderthingsforthedifferentATCstophone.K:Soyouresayingthehologramhadtocomeoutof,hadtobedonebyaplaneintheair?J:Yeah.K:Really.J:Itwasdonebyaprojector.Aholographicprojector.K:Oh,yeah.Okay,so,thetechnologyexistsoutthere.Haveyou,Imean,andIunderstandthatyoutalkedtoyourfriend,whowrotethebook...J:NormBergrun.

K:Norm,butwhereelsehaveyouheardaboutthisholographictechnology?J:RonBlackburn...youknowwhoheis?K:No.J:[ToBill]Doyouknowwhoheis?B:No.Idont.J:RonBlackburnwaswithLockheedfor30years.Hewaswiththestealthprogram,stealthprogramprojectupatGroomLakefor20years.HewastheonethatIfirstheardtherewasaliensatthetestsite.Now,whenIfirstmethim10,15yearsago,hedeniedknowingeverything,nowhesgottenalittlebitmorelaxaboutwhathesays.ImeanhesaidupatGroomLaketherewasanadministrationbuildingjustforthealiensupthere.Ronwasatmybirthdaypartyhere.

K:[Laughs]Soweneedtogettothisguyaswell.J:Hesretirednow,hesretired.Hesverycarefulaboutwhathesays.K:Okay.J:Hestillhasaretirement.Buthecametomybirthdayparty,andahetoldusaboutholographicprojections.Hesaystheycontainthesound,light,heat,everything,Imeaneverythingisthere.Oneofthepeople,oneoftheproblemsthatpeoplehavewithholographicprojections...WellIsawit,itcouldnthavebeen.Youknow,like,


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theythinkofholographicprojectionslikeyouseeinLasVegasoratabirthdayparty,youknow.K:Right.J:Whereitsalittledancinglightlikethere.K:Whereyoucanseethroughit.J:Yeah,andtheysay...K:And,soyouknowitsthere.J:Well,Isawit,couldntbe.Youknowitsridiculous.Andthentheysay,well,howwouldtheyhavedonethesound,theywouldhavehadtohavespeakersallupanddown,youknow,thestreet.Itstoobadpeople,youknow,theydontreallyrealizehowfarweareadvancedwithourtechnology.Theywerefooled,itwasascam.ItwasaPsy-Op.K:Okay,sowhoranit?J:BasicallyIcallthemtheNastyNASANazis,inthemiddleofthemilitary-industrialcomplex.Hoaglandtellsexactlywhotheyareandhowtheytookover,andthatswhoranit.Now,inMarch31st,2007,lastyear,aguynamedMorganReynolds,ifyouveheardthename?K:Yes.J:Okay...hefiledasuitcalledtheQuiTamComplaint,againstthese22companies.Andweretalkingaboutmajorcompanieshere.ScienceApplications,InternationalCorporation,AppliedResearch,Hughes-allthesecompaniesrightherearebeingsued,andwhattheyrebeing

suedforisacceptingmoneyforprovidingagovernmentagencywithfraudulentinformation.ThegovernmentagencytheyprovidedwiththisfraudulentinformationisNIST-TheNationalInstituteofStandardsinTechnology.NISTwasaskedbyPresidentBushtodetermineexactlywhytheWorldTradeCentercollapsed.Whatactuallycausedittocollapse.Andtheycameupwithareasonthat,youknow,thejetfuelanditwasjustsofarridiculous,thatMorganfiledthissuitanditsFORTYPAGESandheoutlineseverythingthattheygotwrong.Andsothesuithasbeengoingalongincourtnow.K:Andyoutestifiedastotheholographicplanesaspartofthesuit,right?

J:WellwhatIdidisIfiledanaffidavitonJanuary28th,2008,thisyear,insupportoftheComplaintandinoppositiontotheMotionToDismiss.Andbasically,whatItestifiedis:1)whytheairplanescouldnthavetraveledasfastastheydidandHOWtheycouldntbeflownaswellastheywere,andwhythere,youknow,therewasnowreckageinthere.AndIthinkthisbook...K:Itsamazingthatotherpilotshaventcomeforwardbecausethisis...J:Well,otherpilotsareemployed;theycantaffordtocomeforward.Theresveryfew,youknow,people,theresalotof...K:ButthisisourCOUNTRYweretalkingabout...J:Theycantdoit.Alotofmyinformationwastakenfrom

AerodynamicsforNavalAviators[holdsupthebooklet]andIexplainWHYanairplanecannotfly500mphatathousandfeet.Ithastodowithdrag,andithastodowithpowerandithastodowiththefactthattheyuseturbofans.Itjustcanthappen.SoanywaythegovernmentsandNISTscontentionisthattheyflew500mph-itdidnthappen.Itcouldnthappen.SobasicallythatswhatIexplainedinmysuit.Now,yousaywhydontmanypilotscomeforward?Manyhave,theresanorganizationcalledwww.PilotsForTruth.comandImamember,oneoftheearliermembersofthat,andtheresalotofpeoplethatrealizethatthis


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couldnthavepossiblyhappened.Therewasno,anairplanelikeaBoeing757flyingintothePentagon.No,thatdidnthappen.K:SowhathappenedatthePentagon?J:AtthePentagon,abombwentofftomakethatholethereandtheyhada55gallondrumofdieselfuelthataguylit,tomakeallthatblacksmokethere.AndAprilGallupwho...K:Yeah,IthinktheAprilGallupstoryisfascinating.J:...AprilGallupwasa...K:Okay,solets,letsgobackwherewewere,whichis...J:Okay,weretalkingaboutAprilGallup.K:Right,April,okay.J:AprilGallupwasanArmySpecialist,andIforgetwhatherjobwasbut,shewas-shehadaTopSecretclearance.Shewassittingabout40feetfromthe-wheretheexplosionmadetheholeinthefrontofthePentagonandshehadhersix-month-oldsonrightbelowherdeskandshethoughtthatwasoddbecause,usually,whenshewenttowork,beforegoingthroughsecurity,theyhadtoputthelittlekidsindaycare,butonthatday,securitysaid,No,takethekidinwithyou.So,shehadit-shehadthekidrightbelowinhislittleholderthere,andshesaysitwasreallystrangebecauseasshepressedtheONbuttonforhercomputer,thatswhenthebuildingexploded,andshesaidalotofdebriscamedownonherandshesawtheholeoverthereandshethought,Igottogetoutofhere.Soshepickedupherkid,puthimoverherback,andwenttowardsthatopeningandshegot

throughthatopeningontothegrass-whichiswhere,eventually,thetriagewassetup.Butshesaidshesawnomissile,sawnoairplanes,smellednofuel.Therewasnoairplaneinthere.AndlaterinthehospitalshegotinterviewedbyArmyIntelligenceandtheyaskedherwhatshesaw,andshestartedtosayIdidntseeanythingandtheysaidNo,yesyoudid.YousawaBoeing757crashintothere.ShesaysNo,no,no,Ididnt.Therewasnothingthere.Andshesgonethroughhellforthelastfourorfiveyearstryingtogetmedicalcare.Itsbeenareallyvery,verysadstory.But,oneofthethingsIwantedtoshowthisisapagefromamilitarymanualtalkingaboutstuffthattheywouldliketogetintheyear2025.Thisiscalledairborneholographicprojector,youcanseewhereIgotit.Youcant

getitanymorehere,waswww.au.af.milandIgotabout250pagesofthisstuff...K:Itstalkingaboutahologrammachine.B:Itreferstoenemyperceptionmanagement,isthatright?Thatssuchawonderfuleuphemism.HaveIrememberedthatright?J:Yeah,itsays...briefdescription:Theholographprojectorplaysathreedimensionalvisualimageinadesiredlocation,removedfromadisplaygenerator.Theprojectorcanbeusedforpsychologicaloperationsandstrategicperceptionmanagement.Itisalsousefulforopticaldeception,andcloaking,providingamomentarydistractionwhenengaginganunsophisticatedadversary.Andithascapabilities,precisionprojectionofathreedimensionalvisualimagesintoa

selectedarea.Supports[Psy-Opandstrategicdeceptionmanagementandprovidesdeceptionandcloakingagainstopticalcenters.K:Okay,andwhenwasthatwritten,doyouknow?J:Ithinkin99.Imnotsure.IllgiveyouanaddresswhereyoucangetitNOW.K:Okay.J:ItsnotatTHATaddress.K:Right.J:ButIthinkitsatMaxwellAirForceBase.


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K:Wehavetobelieveifthatsoutinthepublicsector,thatthisisjustthetipoftheicebergasfarasthistechnologygoes.J:Absolutely.B:StrategicPerceptionManagement.Isntthatjustwonderful?K:Itsgreat.B:Ijustthinkthatssogreat.K:Alright.B:Anunsophisticatedenemy,likethepeopleinthestreetsofNewYork.J:[Laughs]Iwasgoingtosaythat.B:[Laughing]J:AndIthought,youknowwhat-IdontthinkthatIllsaythat!K:[Laughing]B:NothingpersonalagainstNewYork.J:Buttheyhave,andwhenyougointoit,theyhavewhattheycallthehybridhighenergylasersystem[HELWEPA...High-EnergyLaserWeaponSystemsApplications].Butwhenyougoinhereandgetacloseupofthissystem,itsshowingyouhowtheycouldattackrightbetweenIranandAfghanistan.Itshilarious,youknow,its-thatswheretheyregoingtobeattackingandthatswheretheyknewtheyweregoingtobeattackingbackin,youknow,1999,youknow.Andthat,thatwaspublishedthenso,youcanseehowfaraheadtheyplanthisstuff.Imeantheyplanitthirtyyearsahead.Iwaslookingforthatpage...

K:Okay,whenyousaytheyregoingtobeattackingbetweenIranand...J:Afghanistan.Thatswherethepipelineiscoming,theywantthatarea.K:Okay,right,sothatswhyweregoingtowarwithIran,iswhatyouresaying.J:Yeah,wewanttoclearthatareasowecanrunthepipelinedownthere.K:Itsoundslikeyouresayingtheyregoingtouseaspecialkindofweapontoattackthere.J:Welltheycouldusethathybridhighenergylaser,youknow,theygotplentyofstufftheycoulduse.K:Right.

J:Butitwasjustoddthat,youknow,thatitwouldbeallreadyonPAPER,availabletothepublictoshowthemwheretheyregoingtobeattacking.K:Okay,thisis...B:Whatyousaidtousoff-camera,justbeforewestarted,wasyoufelttherewasgoingtobe,Ithinkyouusedthewordsnuclearwar.J:Ohyeah,IhavenodoubtthatweregoingtonukeIran.ImsurethatsintheplanandCheneycertainlywantstodoit.Idontknowhaveanyinsideinformation,butItlookstome,like,oneofthescenario,possiblescenarios,wouldbethatBushgetsassassinatedinOctober.CheneybecomesPresidentandthendeclaresMartialLaw.AndthensomethinghappensandwherewehavetoattackIran.Ofcourse,wewontattackIran-wellgetIsraeltodoit.And,theyllattack

themwiththeirnukesandthenwellslapthemonthewristbysayingweregoingtogiveyou50billiondollarsforarehabilitationprogramhere,sothatyouwontnukeanybodyelse.Psychologicalrehabilitationprogram.Wellgivethem,youknow...K:Okay,butnobodysgoingtogetawaywithnukinganyone,Imean,inotherwords,youregoingtohaveChina,youregoingtohaveRussia,Imean,basicallyweregoingtobeatWorldWarIIIatthatpoint,right?J:Yeah,butitwontbethatbig.Whattheyregoingtodoiscutthecables,communicationcables...


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K:Oh,theunderseacablething.J:Yeah,sothattheresnotalotofcommunications,sothattheycangive...K:Sonooneknowswhatsreallyhappening.J:Noonereallyknowswhatshappening.Itwillallbehandledonanupperlevel.Allthisishandledonanupperlevel.Allthishasbeenplannedincommunicationwith,andinagreementwithChinaandRussia.Theyallknowwhatsgoingon.Soitllbe,youknow,justtotryoutnewweaponsand...K:Well,actually,thisiswhat,again,ourHenryDeaconsays.HesaysChinasinonit.TheresgoingtobeawarwithChina,buttheyalreadyknowitsplanned.J:Yeah,ofcourse.AndlikeeverybodywasreadyfortheJapaneseYakuzaandtheChinesesatelliteandonATStheysaidtheylltelluswhatsgoingon,theyllgiveustherealpictureandalltheydidwasrecycleoldNASApictures,youknow.AndofcourseChinawasveryembarrassed.YouknowtheysaidthesearenotrecycledNASApictures,butyoucouldgorighttowhere,youknow,yes,thatwasanoldrecycledNASApicture.Now,whattheyredoingupthereorbitingthemoon,iftheyAREorbitingthemoon,Idontknow.Buttheyrecertainlynottakingpictures,youknow,thattheycoulduseforthemselves.[pause]

K:Whynot?J:Becausetheyrealreadyinonit,theyalreadyknowwhatsthere,Imean,youknowweminedthem...K:Sowhatsthemodusoperandibehinddoingallofthis?Imean,whyarethey,whyaretheygoingtoplanwars-nuclearyouretalkingabout-nuclearwarswhere,youknow,millionsofpeoplearegoingtodie,landisgoingtobecomeuninhabitable.Imean,youknow,thisiscrazy-eveniftheywantedtokeepapipeline...J:Thatsoundslikeagoodreason.K:There,whatsthepointofmakingtheLAND,Imean,youknow...J:Youknow,theyvecleanedupnuclearweaponsinthepastthirtyyears,theydonthavethatmuchradiation.K:Whygonuclearthough?Imeanitssomessy.Whywould,Imean,you

know,Imnotamilitaryguy,butiftheyvegotscalarweaponryandtheyvegotHAARP,Imean,youknow;theyvegotearthquakestheycancause,Imean,therearealotofotherthingstheycandobesidesgoing,Imean,thatjustseemslikethenthdegreeofinsanity.Whywouldtheydoit?J:YouknowitslikeaskingwhenItalkaboutEndeavorandthespaceshuttlebeingsuchanoutmodedmethodofgettingtotheISS...K:Right.J:...andpeoplesaywellifwehaveallthiscoolstuffthatyousaylike,youknowsatellitesandanti-gravstuffandeverything,whydotheyusethespaceshuttle?Itsthesamethingwiththenukething.Thereslevelsofsecrecy,levelsofintelligence,youwanttokeepacertainsegmentofthepeopleknowingjust,youknow,thinkingthat

thespaceshuttleisallwegot,youknow,andnuclearweaponsareallwegot,soweusethose.Itsthattypeofdeal.K:Okay,soyouregoingtokillmillionsofpeople,eliminate...J:IdontthinkitllbeMILLIONS,butitllbeafew.K:AndwhatisIrangoingtodoatthatpoint?Youknow?J:Oh,theyllgetallpissedoff.Idontreallyknowwhattheylldo.K:Uhhuh.Ok,doyouhaveanyinsidecontactsaboutTHIS?J:Ahh,letssee.AboutIran,aboutnukingIran?K:Yeah.


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Project Camelot John Lear Tells All Transcript - Part 1