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This will be an interview. Interview is taking place at the West

Fargo, North Dakota Police Department. The date is 10/04/83. The

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O.K., but you do remember Sally calling you?

Ya, cuz it was late and she woke me up.

Do you have any idea about what time it was?

I really don't know.

O.K. Do you remember any of the conversation at all?

It seems to me like she asked me about getting her some booze, but

I don't - I told her I didn't have the car, and I think she was

drunk when she called me, but I'm not sure.

O.K. Do you remember her saying anything about her leaving Jerry?

On that specific occasion, I don't remember it, but I know she had

told me that before, that she wanted to, but she ...

When would that have been?

She had called me a few times prior to this one evening, and

usually when she was pretty well loaded and she was upset about

something that had happened at home and she was going to leave.

The next day she'd usually call and apologize and sorry she called

and this stuff, so I never really took it, you know, seriously

that she would.

O.K. You said that she had said that she was going to leave, but

that she was afraid to?

Ya. I wasn't really too clear on that either about what exactly

she meant. I, I don't know what she meant on that cuz she said it

a couple of times.

But she did specifically say she wanted to leave but she was

afraid to?

Ya, something to that effect.

O.K. Do you remember what time Bob got home that night?

I have no idea, no.

O.K. Do you remember Sally asking you to go to Superior with her?

That would have been probably the only place we could have got

booze.

How well did you know Jerry?

I knew him to speak to him and that was about it.

Did you ever go out with Sally?

No, I didn't.

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Did Bob and Jerry go out much?

They were friends, but as far as actually going out together,

really don't remember now.

On the notes it talks about Jerry being in the house next door,

about 2:00, and you called the police. What was that all about?

There was a vacant house next to the bUilding we were living in

that Jerry and this o:her guy also owned, and Bob and I had been

doing some remodeling work for him, gutting the interior out, cuz

they were going to rer~odel it, and Jerry was in and out of there

at different times. ~ don't remember that night, you know, for

sure.

Did you ever go out wi Lh Sally?

No.

So then you weren't really close friends with either one of them?

No.

Did you know Virgil LaPanta?

I don't believe I'd know him if I saw him.

O.K.

I knew the LaPanta stcre and that he was somehow connected with

that, but as far as knowing Virgil myself, no.

How did you first meet Sally and Jerry?

When I ca lled to rent the house, or rent the apartment, that's the

first time I really met. him.

Had your husband known him before that?

I really don't know, he could have, because he is from Duluth, but

I don't know if he did know him or not.

Where are you from?

Michigan, originally.

You mentioned that Sally had called up on a number of times when

she was intoxicated, and on those occasions she had mentioned

leaving Jerry. . .

Dh-huh.

Did she ever say why she wanted to leave?

It was usually, there had been some argument - the lawn wasn't

mowed. I remember that one. She hadn't mowed the lawn and Jerry

got allover her, or at least this is what she told me on the

phone, and she, it was usually something like that that she'd

complain about.

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Waller: Can you remember anything else besides the lawn not being mowed?

Bodin: I, that one night stuck in my mind because it was so silly. I

can't remember any other ones.

Waller: Did she ever mention any threats that had made against her by

Jerry or any abuse that she had suffered from him?

Bodin: I can't remember.

Waller: When you say you can't. remember, you can't remember or she never

related any to you?

Bodin: It seems like she did, but I can't remember the specifics on it,

because we were both going through - she was having trouble with

Jerry and I was having trouble with Bob.

Waller: Did she ever mention any extra-marital activities that Jerry was

involved in?

Bodin: Again, I cannot remember if she did or not.

Waller: Did she ever tell you that she had any involvement outside of her

marriage?

Bodin: I don't believe so.

Waller: When you were talking to her and she was intoxicated, did she ever

threaten to harm herself?

Bodin: No, not that I remember.

Waller: You don't remember any reference to having the gas on on the stove

or anything like that?

Bodin: No.

Waller: Now, following their disappearance, I'm sure that this came up in

the conversation between you and your husband. O.K., can you

relate to us what he told you about that evening?

Bodin: 'I don't even remember what he said.

Waller: Did he say that he had taken Jerry home?

Bodin: The Cap and Cork, or the Captain's Cork, or something like that.

There was a bar over in Superior that he did say he ran into

Jerry. I remember that, but I don't remember if Bob said he took

him home or if Jerry, no Jerry couldn't have dropped him off, Bob

had our car.

Waller: See, the information that we have is that Jerry Tharaldson called

your house and askedrour husband to go out with him, and that

your husband did go down there, and the two did go out together.

Now, that's the inform.ltion that we received ...

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don't.

Close to the time of this incident.

That would be a lot better than me now, cuz I don't remember.

O.K., so you're not disputing that, that could have been?

No, I'm not disputing it at all. It could have very easily.

just, I can't remember now.

But at the same time, you can't say that it did not happen.

No, but I do remember something about the Cap and Cork, or I can't

even think...

Captain Cliffs?

Captain Cliffs, that'~: it. I knew there was a Captain something.

Now you said that you had never been out with Sally, had you ever

been out with them as a couple?

Not that I remember.

Had you ever drank with them?

Possibly in one of the bars in Duluth, they may

been in the same, we may have been there at the

don't really remember it.

have, you know,

same time, but

Do you recall them bei~g up to your home earlier in the day?

They may have been, I don't remember.

Do you remember your husband borrowing money or asking to borrow

money from ...

That I do, because we were doing that renovation next door and ..

O.K., could you explai1. that to us?

We were gutting out the interior of the house right next to the

building we were liv;~ng in - stripping the walls completely,

taking out plaster ane l everything out, and Jerry was supposed to

give us part of the mo~ey and Bob had to ask him for it, but that's

all I can remember.

Do you recall that this was at the same time this incident

occurred?

Roughly the same, ya, within a day or so.

Did your husband ever relate to you anything that happened at

Tharaldson's house prior to he and Jerry going out?

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I cannot remember. I'm not being very much help.

Well, let me ask you this, after their disappearance, did your

husband ever give his opinion on what had occurred?

He may have, everybody was.

I'm particulary interE'sted in what your husband had to say.

I'm trying to remember. I cannot remember Bob specifically saying

anything.

Did he relate to you that there had been any arguments at the

house prior to them going out? And, again, only if you know.

I can't remember, he could have, I just, I assume they must have

gotten in an argument considering Sally called me, but as far as

anybody telling me what happened, I don't remember it.

Do you recall where she wanted to go to get a bottle?

It was probably Captains Corks, or Johnny's. I don't remember

specifically where she wanted to go.

But your best recollection is that she wanted to go to Superior?

Va. I do remember Superior.

And you can't remember what she was upset about that night?

Not that night, no.

But you do know that ste was upset?

Va, she was definitely upset.

O.K., and you also said that she was intoxicated.

To the best of my knowledge from talking to her on the phone, ya.

How long have you and Fob been divorced?

We got divorced in 1980.

Had you moved up here prior to that?

No, we were divorced in Duluth, and I moved up here in '81.

O.K., now he's living up here in this area?

Va, he moved up, this sounds really wierd, but he moved up just

before I did. Friends of ours lived up here and Bob had gotten a

job, and then I came up for my girlfriend's birthday, and they

talked me into moving up here.

O.K., who's your girlfriend?

Ginny _

Now, without appearing to be a mudraker, O.K., do you know of any

involvement that your husband had with any other women during the

time of this disappearance?

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Wait a minute, any involvement my husband had?

Right.

Ya, with his current wife.

Who's that?

Claudette Heil, or it was Heil at that time, it's now Claudette

Bodin.

And where did Claudette live?

I believe she was living in Superior at the time. I, but I don't

know the address. I don't remember that at all.

O.K., and you're certain that at this time your husband was

involved.

I know he was.

How do you know that?

Because I had already filed for a divorce.

O.K.

And then we had reconciled and he was still carrying on his affair

with her.

Do you have children with Bob?

Yes, I do.

How many?

Two.

Do you have contact with him at all now?

Occasionally, ya.

Is there visitation with the children?

Ya.

When was the last time you talked to him?

Today as a matter of fact. He called to see if I talked to you

guys yet.

O. K. John?

Do you remember how you first found out that Sally was missing?

It seems to me like Sally's mom called me the next morning.

Who is Sally's mother?

Oh, you would ask me. I can't remember her name.

The reason I say is because in this note it states that you didn't

know she was missing until Judy called.

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Bodin: Judy?

Campbell: Who would Judy be?

Bodin: That, no, that's Jerry's mom's name, or is that Judy, I don't

know. It's one or the other. It's one of their parents.

Campbell: O.K., now like I say.

Bodin: It's Jerry's mom.

Campbell: O.K., like I say I'm going through somebody else's notes and it

talks about the night that Jerry was in the house next door at

2:00 and you called the police, and then it says, and I'm assuming

that this is after Sally left, and she called you that night,

O.K., the night that she disappeared, and then it says something

shortly after she left, he called and wanted every bit of info

reference her phone call, her call. Did you get a phone call from

Jerry later on that night after Bob got home about what Sally had

talked to you about or something?

Bodin: It seems to me like it was the next day that Jerry called.

Campbell: O.K. Do you recall any of the phone call?

Bodin: that, II cannot remember. I just barely, when you said

It seems toremembered I did talk to him but it was the next day.

I don'tme like it was around noon, but I don't remember.

remember the specific conversation.

Campbell: O.K. Do you remember Sally when she called you if she mentioned

anything that she had money and that she was going to leave?

Bodin: No. I know she said she had money because she wanted to get the

bottle and I told her I didn't have any.

Campbell: Do you remember how long you talked to her that night?

Bodin: I don't know. Some of our conversations would go on for an hour

and sometimes they'd be as short as five minutes. I don't really

remember.

Campbell: In your conversation with Bob, what has the conversation been

reference Jerry Lee or Sally since the bodies were discovered

has he mentioned it at all?

Bodin: No. Not, you know, he hasn't talked, well, we are not in that

close of contact. We did, well I called him and asked him how, I

was wondering how they found me, and it was through Bob's mom, how

you guys found me, and I figured you'd find me sooner or later.

We were just basically just neither one of us were worried about

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it. In fact, Bob even said, "I'm not worried about it." I said

why, I might get nervous talking to cops.

Why would he say he was not nervous?

I don't know.

Why would he be nervous about it in the first place?

I don't know, that's, it sounded funny, but it could have been

just for me saying well I was nervous about it, well, I'm not, you

know. I don't really remember. I avoid him as much as possible.

How much contact did you have with Jerry Lee after Sally

disappeared?

Myself, I don't think I had very much at all. Bob may have talked

to him, but.

How long did you live in that house after? This would have been

the end of August that they disappeared.

O.K., let me think where I moved from there. It wasn't too, maybe

two months after that we moved.

Did you ever talk with Jerry at all during that two months?

I don't believe so.

Can you think of anything else, Gary?

Where's Bob living now?

Dilworth, Minnesota.

Is he working?

I'm not really too sure. I think so. Him and another guy are

doing some roofing or something.

Who's that now?

Gary Knutson.

Does he live in Dilworth, too?

Dh-huh. Their houses are almost back door to back door.

Are you familiar with a person by the name of Kitt?

Oh, what's her last name? She's from England. She used to be on

my cribbage team down in Duluth and I can't think of her last

name. If it's the kid I'm thinking about. No, not close, huh.

I don't know who you're thinking of.

I can't think of her last name.

Where did that gal, where did this gal that you're thinking of

live? Do you remember?

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Bodin: Out in the country in Duluth.

Waller: Probably the same one.

Bodin: I can't think of her last name, that's driving me nuts.

Waller: Smart?

Bodin: That's it. I couldn't think of it.

Waller: Do you know her?

Bodin: Ya, she used to run around with Bob's sister. We used to play

cribbage on the same cribbage team and stuff.

Waller: Who's we?

Bodin: Kitt and me and Claudia used to play on the team. There was a

whole bunch of us that were on the cribbage team for the Eagles

Bar down in Duluth.

Waller: Claudia, is that Bob's wife?

Bodin: Bob's wife, ya.

Campbell: In your conversation that you recently had with Bob and he asked

you whether you had talked to us, did he know that we were coming

to talk to you?

Bodin: Dh-huh.

Campbell: How did he know?

Bodin: Cuz I talked to him Thursday, and he called and told me that you

guys had talked to him and he was wondering if you'd gotten ahold

of me and I said ya. I said I'm meeting them at the police station

at 3:00.

Campbell: He called and said we had talked to him?

Bodin: Or that somebody had set up, that you were going to come up to

talk to him. I can't remember if it was Thursday or Friday.

Campbell: Do you know a girl by the name of Lynn Burton?

Bodin: The name doesn't ring a bell.

Waller: Did you ever witness any arguments between Sally and Jerry?

Bodin: Not that I remember, no.

Waller: Did Bob ever relate any that he had witnessed?

Bodin: He may have, I just, I don't remember. I had enough things going

on right then to worry about.

Campbell: Is there anything that you can think of at all relative to their

disappearance that you think might be important or that we should

check on?

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Bodin:

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I have been thinking ever since they were found and I cannot

remember anything that ...

Is there anybody you think we should talk to?

I can't really help you there either.

O.K. I have nothing further.

I have nothing further.

O.K. We will conclude the interview at 1531 hours. The date is

10/04/83.

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