, W. J , INTERVIEW # 4 9 6 4

150

INDEX CARDS:

Oreer CountyFarmingOrchardCarpentryLiving Conditions

IALK, W# J . IHTKRTIIf ~ ' ' 4964

151

Interview with, \U JT* Hale,Altas, Oklahoma,East Peean, 604.

Born July 8, 1861,Kentucky.

Parents John Hale, Kentucky. '

Jane Wellington, Kentucky.

Zaidee Bland, Interviewer, July 23, 1937, *

I en a farmer, aiways have been, always wi l l be

and I am a contented farmer far I hare neyer failed to

make enough to l i re on and some to spars. Of cooree,

some yeare we make more than othere bat thoee yeare

the abundance goee Into improvement of the fs?a sad

llring habitation. I t tuppllee new houeee, new barns,

fon«t»j plow*, wagons, buggies, traators and oara,

I had heard a great deal about north Texas* I

had heard there was oheap land with plenty of roo» to

spread out, so I sold ny farm aad loaded a l l my household

goods Implements, and necessary clothing and food Into

two iragons and one buggy and he eded north* I stopped

in v.angumqjd stayed over night. There, I met a man who

wanted to soi l his claim* He described It to me and X.

was to ride out next morning and look at It and If I t was

as he described, I was to give him a b i l l of sale to one

_ _ _ _ _ _

BALE, W. J. INT3HVIBW. 4964 - 2

Qf oy wagons, team, bows and sheet. Instead of going to

look at It I trotted out with the team and wagon I wanted

him to hate, unloaded It on the claim near the dugout,

took him In ay wagon and went baok to Mengum, fixed up

the legal papers aad turned crrer teea and wagon to him*

Then I went to the wagon yexd, got the other wagon and

taggy, wife and two babies and mored home.

I built ayself a one-room,box house on this place,

planted an orchard and * rlseyard, dug a well and set up

farming as I understood i t .

I got myself yearling trees and laid off say orchard

la four foot holes, plowing two ways. Wife held the trees

in the hole & l l e I gare them two buckets of water aad

al l the old bone and other manure I could find before

I put the net IT© so i l around them. I planted three

hundred trees* v?e never lost a tree or a Tine and that

orchard beeams lexicon far end near- I t grew so fast .

I worked at carpenter work during summer and

winter to help get started for I t needed so much ready

cash to make lmproTements.

I helped build did Lone Wolf's house OT«F in

Kiowa County and helped build soreral houses in Hangum.

HALB, *• J. INTKHVIBW. ' ' * ' 4964*5

I had a big team of horses weighing 3840 pound* so got a«

lot of freighting sad hauling to do. I hauled tho rook

for the f irst rook building aver built in Mangunu Thise

horses were bay Percheroue aad I brought them from Denton

County wltb m.

He were only three days on the way when we cane

through Mangunu The team that I traded for the elolm

weighed orer 1800 pound,each a pretty good horse*

My wife and babies had to be alone when I would be

away. She was real brave though. Many nights the wolves

would howl so and the wild cattle would gather around the

houae and butt the walls with their long horns and keep

up suoh a bawling that she was afraid to sleep for fear

one Qf them would break In* Nothing could be done about

It exoept to build such a fenoe that they oould not get

througiu I had to get a l l ay posts from orer In the Indian

reservation and I t took two days to go get a load of posts

with good luck sad If the river got up we would hare to

wait for I t to go down before we dared to arose and SOBS

times that was several days. I used walnut and aedar posts*

I fenced ay entire place with four wire, barbed wire fence

and a l l corrals and yard fences were eight foot posts and

five strands of wire.

HALS, W* J* INTERVIEW* - g" 4 9 6 4 - 4154

We bad lots of wild pluns down on the river and the

first sunttif I hitched up my teaa to the wagon and took

By wife sad table* down to gather a l l the plums we could.

Intending to bare wife keep a l l she wanted and posalbly

carry a snail load to Mangum too, he traded for groceries*

The f irs t thing that big team did was to go down knee

deep in quick sand and when I got thin out 1 had enough

pirns to do ne a l i f e time* The next suaner wife took

the gir ls and the buggy for some more pluns* They carried

a lunch,- intending to gather a l l day* At noon when they

had eaten ami they wanted to gire the horse water, they

were afraid to lead him to the river on account of sand*

There was a hols of water under a sand bank that looked

clear and cool so they led the horse there for, a drink

and right down to his belly he sent in the sand. «ere

they frightenedJ Some men were orer on the prairie and

they came tad helped to dig and pull him out*

I never proved up on this pteoe though*

I bad such a pretty orchard and fence and everything

that a man came along and said he was going to contest ay

right. Ee caae by and frightened ay wife and when I got

word of I t , I was in Mangum. I had been offered a good

HALS, V. J . IHTroVllW, {) 4964-5155

prlte for ay luprOYeneAte aeTeral tints. I had heard of

a plaoe we«t of Mangum that I considered a bargain. X

decided it was bettor to sail than to stand the prlee of

a contest so took steps to sell and buy. l found I eould

aoll mine for enough to buy a half section of deeded land and p.

lease on 80 aaraa of iohool land so I ease home and told

my wife we had botter aoll* She did not wajat to baoauao

aha lorad our orchard. Tha town of Heater la built on

thla old quarter but I fait that it was wisdom to aell

ao • we did*

I got $3600 for ay quarter and paid $2750 for the

h e l f section deeded land and a team, wagon sheet and

bema. The mm I bought from had aereral grown and marTled

ehllftrsn by a wosjan that waa dead and had a new wife and

that, waa tfee raaaon that he wanted to go farther west with

hie new family • HI a older children aaid he should not

aell* We made our agreement on Friday and were to a»e%

In Uangun on Monday to aign a l l dead a. x decided that

ha night hava aoma trouble before Monday and possibly change

hia mind. I had asked a lawyer about tha t i t l e and on

being told tha t i t l e would be good X took a load of fern

lmplemeota and a lawyer and vent out to hi a plaoe oa

HALS, *• J . INTERVIEW. - \, - 4964-t

Saturday 00 he would not hare to bring his woman to

town. I found him over on tho greek bat we fixed a l l the

papers up and ha drort me back to town,stopping on tht

way at the different houses of his children and tel l ing

than of the deal* The children were • t i l l mad and

making threats. Every time ho would t e l l then that

I was going back home with him. I oould not understand

that. So when wo got to Mangaa and put everything en

reoord he turnd to me and said, "You are going back hone

with m end 1*11 t e l l you way. You have bought everythingi

on ny plaoe except what I haul off in one wa-on; a bl*elc-

sslth shop aad tfcools, a lot of plows, feed, out- ousefe* '

posts and fen OSS. I am going to give you posse&enw and

It la up to you to iaild i t , See?* His children did try

to olaim soias things but I stood firm and told then I

had paid for everything an& I did not propose to pay again

or let anything go* I knew I had gotten a bargain but

soasone waa going to get i t so why not me? It was no use

to f te l hard at BW or try to take anything froa me* And

after a long time they a l l get in a good humor with me*

I called ay big team Dlok and Ifey and they could

pull nearly anything on wheels* Onee, there wero about

, H. J* OTXRVIBW. "~ 4964-7

30 wagons stalled in a lane going north from our

with ootton on thtsu One man decided ho would not wait,

so ha started right out across the prairie and ran Imto

a l i t t l e pool of rater and bogged down In the sand*

The sand waa surely bad to puil either dry or with water

on it* Serersl teaas had been trying to help him poll

out* One/ban had four big mules hit eh ad to the baok end

of the wagon and s t i l l he could not get Ma load out. A

X oao» up and looked on a l i t t l e * I slsed up his load

and bog and believed ny team oould pull i t* I said,

"You got jrour team hitched to the wrong end, haven't you?"

That seemed to make them a l l a l i t t l e cad. you oan'-fc-

aay muoh to a man about haring the best team or yqa wi l l

have a fight on your hands* The man with the four males

said "Here are my four mulee in exchange for any two

horses that will move that load." Another man said,

"Think you eaa pull it?" I aald, "Not me, but Z thiak

ay-team oea. If you will take a l l the other teams away

and le t me hltth on in the right place to the tongue,

I will giro i t a try." Everybody took their horses and

j&ules clear away and stood bsok to watch* I hitched my

team to the tongue and gave them the word and they walked

right off with the wagon* Everyone gathered rouid and

HALK, W, J, INTBRnKW. " * 4964*8ir>8

began to examine ay horses and the nan with the moles

looted Into ay horses* mouth* and began to ask question*

about their ages*

Hold on my friends," said I* "No four horses or

mules either, In this crowd ion get my team,they are not

for sale or trade." And than I said, "Now will you

please get out of my way, I want to get on my way to the

gin and I want to get back before night.n

I got stuck in the sand sometimes, but by lightening

my load my team always walked out when I gave them the

word* I t e l l you a man*a success on the farm depends a

lot on his team* I hare always had a good one. They are

Ilka ny wife and children« I never went off and le f t my

children at homo to work out the or op in my l i f e that

X did not remind them not to work too hard*

$e were moat always pretty well but one tins I went

orer Into the Nation for posts and stopped at a couple

of oow eamps but did not know that anyone was sick in them*

X had ssy land a l l ready to plant and bad hardly

begun until X o'ame down with the highest feYer X haft ere*

had in itsy i i f e . I did not know what was the matter with me.

HALS, W. J , IHTSHVI2I. .CJ. 4964-9

159

I broks out a l l orer. I newer thought of the snallpox.

My father had run the boat on the Mississippi and had

seen loie of eoallpox in flew Or l iens and I did not

think i t wm§ aa he had described the disease to mo. I

picked the place* and put aarbolio a d d into the plaoes*

Took whatever was bandy to purify ay blood and went on

- plowing and planting* My feet swelled until I oould

not ualic aod a neighbor oamo or«r and brought mo his

riding plow tad took mine hose with hia« The ohildrem

would olimb up on the nanger aad harness my horse* X

«»uld oxawl out to the tea* on my hands and knees,

aliao aboard a horse and go plow. In that way, X got

ogr «rop about in*

When my wife took si ok aa I was, I thought i t

MM I consulted a doctor* I went to Mangum and into

office of Or* Border and he took one look at me

and alaio&ed the door to keep eyeryone else out* He

turned to me and said, "Good Lord, man, do you know what la

the matter with you?9 "No,w I said, "Do you think

I would be coming to you i f I did' I want soaethlag

for ay wife, the has what X haTe, I think.* Y.tlX you

have the eaanpqxr , and right here you g«t quarantined

until you are well."

BUS, W. J» IHTSRVEW. ^ '" 4964-10100

"0, hold on, Doe, you ea&'t do that, I got to

go borne. I am nearly wtll now and how can you

quarantine aft? Don't you have to have an affidavit,

that I hay© I t , from a doctor? Well, I haven*t had

a doctor and, X t s l l you X hare had i t over thy««

wsek* and half of Whites Flat has been to sse mo and

I have been to half dozen plaoea her9 in town. You

will have to quarantine half of Qreer county i f you

get me* I have eren been to a funeral. Better l e t «ev

go." T&ey l e t n» oone hone and I nerar did believe'

X had saall pox until an old dootar who used to l ive

near a» oame yl si t ins a near neighbor and I went over

to hie houie to tee about sel l ing him some teed aafi

the doetor «ame out to the barn an) took one look at

»e aod said "fthy, Jim, you got the snail poxf That

riled me and I said, "I ' l l never believe i t unless

you ean t e l l how X f e l t through this spell ." "Well,"

he said, "If X knew your constitution I could do

that." X said, "Go ahead, count my constitution l ike

a snule^s."

Well, he began and told m how X f e l t from the

Boaeat that I did not f t e l well to that minute, better

HALK, W# J* DJTHBTnW, "n^ 4964-11

1 G 1

than I could 'nave told It ayaelf. "Well X

up," I said, "Queta you ara right but I would not v \

have believed i t . "

Kty family had It but I t did not hurt thea at

It did mo and i f anyone elee took I t from tit we neTer-

did know it* That la the only aloknaaa wo »v»r had

In our family.

X never had &m<sh trouble with eoyotat getting

our (felokaot* If thay <ot to corning too olata I

Tfould get my gun and k i l l oaa aad lat hi« l i e whtrt

they would toe him arery tis» thay eaine too close

to the bMayaxd. I did not keep doga# Onc», whan

X went to the barn in tha middle of the ara&l&g for

8dmathl&e8 X h?ard tha duckt fluttering aol aquawking

and I stapled asrou&d behind tha bam where X oould

tee tha peol thay utually atayad around and there

was a coyote just grabbing for a duok, X got ay

Winebs star tad ahot at him aa ha was running away

from me* The fir at shot ha dropped tha duak, tha

nd« one he disappeared otvr tha bi l l*

Next day a neighbor oaae orer and said, "Jim,

thare I s a dead wolf la the gaily baok of your barn."

HALE, W. J. ' INTERVIEW ^ ^_ 4964- 12

1 said, "Well I guess 1 got to him, let him lie

there for an example." v-

INDIANS

I had a good many dealings with the Indiana,

first and last but always found them farr to deal .

with and easy to make a deal with.

Once I had a-neighbor who killed a beef and

the Indians found it out and came over for some of

the beef but he did not want to divide it and as it

was Sunday be thought he had a good excuse not to' , ' •

ssll. He told the Indians he did not want to sell

because it was Sunday.... The Indians said, M0-o-tol

Pale Face heep religious on Sunday; on Monday he

come and steal poor Indian's wood." The Indians

some of the beef. . - _