Episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Jamie O'Grady on the growth of The Cauldron Behind Quality & Distribution

Best Of...Jamie O'Grady on theDigital and Social Media Sports

Podcast

Jamie O'Grady, Founder and Managing Editor of The Cauldron, was the featured guest on episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast.

What follows are some snippets from the interview. Hear the full episode on www.DSMSports.net or download it on from iTunes Store podcasts or on Stitcher and other podcast apps.

Enjoy...

@njh287DSMSports.net


PodcastJamie's career path (In addition to running The

Cauldron, he is also a full-time IP lawyer!)

English major in college considering teaching, but decided to go to law school on a full scholarship, practicing law since 2001 → Also did some writing for MLBAM in NYC at the same time and some stringer and blogging for the NY Times

“I was able to cut my teeth in getting access to the Knicks and Nets and that really fueled my interest in launching my own media property.”



PodcastOn working his ass off with two full-time jobs:

“The response we have received from the readership and from the media folks and athletes and owners has been tremendous, so (all the time and hard work) is worth it.”

Jamie grew up a big sports fan, but admits he does not watch sports as much now anymore because he doesn't have time → “My passion has diminished while running the business...”



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“It was a way to avoid this notion that I was only going to be a lawyer. I don't particularly enjoy being a lawyer...Getting involved with the New York Times and MLBAM was really a way to see if there were other opportunities out there that would better leverage my skill set.”



PodcastOn the genesis of The Cauldron

“I was approached by someone senior at Medium on Ev Williams's team (co-founder of Medium, co-founder of Twitter)...They were interested in launching a bunch of different publications in various sectors (including sports)...and they asked me to pitch them some ideas on what it might look like...

“I had been kind of noodling on...the athlete content itself...I was really excited about the prospect of working with The Medium folks because their platform is really pretty next generation...and I thought it'd be a good opportunity to get exposure for something, because launching an property is really a challenge now...”



Podcast“I just thought it was a neat opportunity to put out cool, different, unique, compelling content; and do it via a startup (at Medium)...(it was the intersection) of opportunity and entrepreneurialistic intent...

I wanted to do player content. For many years, I thought that was a space that needed to be explored. The Players Tribune launched a few months after The Cauldron launched and initially I was kind of bummed about that, but it occurred to me very quickly there was going to be more than enough opportunity to tell stories because there are just so many amazing athletes out there that have stories that are untold...[Several outlets] can find room in the same box.”



PodcastOn what The Cauldron is all about with leveraging

crowdsourcing in addition to athletes/celebs/influencers

“When you have influencers (players, celebrities)...if they have a following, its one thing to submit a piece and have...an editor ghostwrite something, that's one thing...When they actually have an account on the platform, I think there's more credibility there and there's a natural validation that what you're reading is real. So I thought that the Medium, because you (use Twitter and Facebook credentials) to log in for the first time...you're migrating your followers from big platforms...so you've got a built-in audience from inception.”



Podcast“The crowdsourcing of content is also important for us. We

have so many loyal fans of The Cauldron, who are going to stay with us no matter what, because they've been published by us...all different kinds of folks that would never put themselves out there as any sort of sportswriter or journalist, but they have interesting viewpoints and they are well-spoken and well-written.

We relish the opportunity to work with people like that because we can get their stuff out there and give them editorial guidance; and, if it makes sense...we can compensate them, as well.”



PodcastHow leveraging Medium and the built-in audience affected

brand and content decisions for The Cauldron (prioritizing quality over clicks from day one)

“Our relationship with Medium and, ultimately, SI, we're fortunate that, in the life of The Cauldron (~ 2 years), we haven't had to chase the clicks...I firmly believe that if the content is good and you have distribution, then you're set. You don't need to go chasing the clicks. That doesn't mean that scaling your digital publication isn't important. It absolutely is and something we struggle with all the time...how to grow bigger, faster, better without compromising who we are. That's a challenge.”



PodcastDeveloping and establishing the brand and the voice of The Cauldron

“I think there enough examples out there of what I don't want The Cauldron to be...there are a bunch of companies out there with their own distinct voice..” [Jamie talks about Barstool Sports as an example of a different approach]...Those types of things not only impact the vision and the voice of the company, but they also impact your ability to grow your business. When you're dealing with advertisers or sponsors or national partners and distributors like Sports Illustrated. And even when you're dealing with your [assets]...players and athletes...they're looking at what kind of brand they wanted to be associated with...”



Podcast“One of the things I'm most proud about is we've been really

leanly staffed. So there have been any number of occasions when we could've really screwed this thing up, putting out stories (about several incendiary topics)....Throughout all of that...we have not made a mistake...We have not been [called out] by anyone...We haven't messed up and I;'m really proud of that, considering we don't have...a ton of resources...And we haven;t been afraid to take on some really complicated and challenging topics.”



PodcastBalancing real-time content vs. more timeless and edited and thoughtful content

“I kind of have a baseline where 'I don't want to put out anything that (does not) reach threshold for where it's good...anything the site puts out is going to be good...We don't have the staff...so we can have coverage on something, where can quickly churn out content...There is a cost to doing business...

If you're going to have people on staff to (produce content) in real-time...it's not easy to do that...Where we've tried to balance it out is we've tried to have good social coverage. We've got folks that are constantly scouring for things that are happening live we can share online (GIFs, for example)...We've also had success in-house creating our own video content, that has done many millions of views. That's easier and quick to turn than a lengthy print piece, which requires resources we just don't really have.” @njh287

DSMSports.net


Podcast

Helpful Tool: Lonely Screen – for recording your mobile device in action with a visualization on your computer



PodcastChannels and keys to The Cauldron's audience growth

“I think there's a disconnect there that most people in this business who are trying to monetize realize. Twitter is more show than-go. Twitter does not really drive engagement...You're not gonna get a ton of traffic from Twitter unless you have an explosive story that's breaking in real time...people share things, but people don't necessarily click on things. So, if you're looking to get clicks, Facebook is the big driver of traffic.



Podcast“But, ultimately, there is no one solution to getting an audience...I'm of the firm belief that...nowadays you have to be platform-agnostic. You have to drop content wherever the audience is, whenever they want that content, and you have to be cognizant of who that audience is. So something that does well on Twitter may not do well on Snapchat (for example)...

“You have to think about what your goals are and...this platform-agnostic approach...is the future. And the companies and the people that understand how monetization is not necessarily going to be driven by page views in the future are the ones that are going to survive this kind of media apocalypse that is upon us now.”



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On measuring cross-platform content metrics

“If you're not tracking those metrics, then you're not going to be successful right now. So I will say that we are actively looking to do more of that, and to do it better than we have in the past. We've been focused on it, but I think the more you do, the more comfortable you become at understanding of where you've gotta drop content...to be successful.”



PodcastThe Cauldron's partnership with Sports Illustrated

“This whole business is about relationships...I have relationships at SI..Andy Glockner is my Executive Editor and my Mr. #2...I think Sports Illustrated was and remains interested in being with The Cauldron because of the quality of the content we put out. Sports Illustrated' name and brand still has a lot of value and credibility...I think them partnering with us was legitimate validation for the concept, and the quality of the work that we do...It benefits both sides...We hope we an take the relationship to even higher levels going forward.”



PodcastWhether The Cauldron seeks to actively differentiate themselves from competitors

“It's a bit of a challenge if you're trying to put a good product and simultaneously worry about what your competitors are doing. I'm aware of The Player's Tribune and what they pout out. I'm aware Uninterrupted, Vice's Clubhouse, etc...but they don't really concern me and stop me from getting where I need to go. I think this thing will really stand on its own merit...there are a lot of great stories out there to tell. Story-telling can take a lot of great forms...so I think that we have done a good job by dipping our toe into a few different buckets of content. And I think we've been successful at everything we've tried. It's just a matter of scaling our business and continuing to grow.”



PodcastOn superstar athletes creating their content houses

“I think when you go into that top tier of athlete, it becomes a different ballgame altogether because there are other ancillary business concerns that may get in the way of good story-telling. Everything is strategically organized in a way to maximize value of the player. Do I think good story-telling is something that will help them achieve their maximization? Absolutely. But if you're talking about LeBron or Kobe...these are guys that are in a different stratosphere than other athletes. Not to say we can't do that. We've published Steph Curry...But just based on our size and resources, we've sort of focused on maybe some players that some of our competitors are not looking at. But players are not exclusive to...(publications)...They're able to work with us, it's just a matter of finding the right stories to tell.”



PodcastHow players stories come together

“Early on, we didn't have name recognition, so we had to literally go knock on doors...it's a two-way street now at this point.”

“(Stories) depend on...the player. Ultimately, my goal is to help them craft a story that is going to resonate. Something that is going to be compelling and raw and real. And that can take many shapes and forms (co-writing, hanging out with them, writing themselves and editing, interviews)...

Obviously we are hyper-aware of everything going on in the sports world, so if there's something that's really interesting or hot that I think makes sense for a particular guy or girl, I'll reach out...You've got be willing to be told 'no.'”@njh287

DSMSports.net


PodcastHow The Cauldron decides which topics to cover

“When you run a business like this, you kind of know what's going viral. But it's not always about the traffic, it's about the quality. [Jamie cites recent piece about NFL linebacker Na'il Diggs and player finances and advising that took off unexpectedly, and a Josh Gordon story from a while back that blew up, predictably]...The issue is maintaining a level of quality in the level of athlete content you produce, so you've got a body of work (other athletes see)...and say, that's where I want to be. Which is exactly what happened with Steph Curry – he came to us. He aid 'I want to write something and I like your stuff...'”



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Balancing player content vs. in-house and crowd-sourced content for The Cauldron

“That's a balance...it impacts you when you go out there looking to raise money. Which we have, we've fielded acquisition offers and funding from VC's...there is that push-pull. You want it to be big, but you also want it to be good.



Podcast“This creates a friction. This is also important with respect to people that want to be writers in the digital space...it's very difficult to monetize editorial...So when you have folks out there that are really talented freelancers...I'm all for that...but there is a certain inflection point where you know that even if something is really good, its just not necessarily going to appeal to a ton of people, so the upside on it and the return isn't there.

That's a challenge. I have to balance my own bottom line...versus my creative side that wants to see people get exposure for good work and get recognition...If you can drop one player piece per day, that's good...I'm not making any judgments on the competition, but I'll stand by our player pieces, even if they're less frequent than other sites.”@njh287

DSMSports.net


PodcastOn branded and sponsored content

“It's a big factor. It's something that those who want to survive this thing will have to do and do it well. But it's not easy to do...The ability to connect with the target audience that that company wants you to connect with is an art form. Especially younger people, they're going to see right through the BS...If you're able to create content that really resonates with them...you have to find the right stories ,the right assets to use...That's absolutely going to be a challenge.”



PodcastThe future of publications with content like The Cauldron mixing

pros, influencers, and crowdsourced content

“We certainly have much larger aspirations than what we're currently doing...I want to do a lot more video. I want to do more podcasts. I want to ramp up editorial...I'm not quite sure this will work for other sites, other entrepreneurs just because there's so much involved here, not only on the content creation side, but also on the distribution side and the relationship side. You really need to have people who are able to wear multiple hats...”



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“Can this concept apply to music? I think this already does apply to music. There are several properties out thee (already)...whee you have well-known influencers who are taking control and putting their own content out...But how you align all these interests and bring those under (the same) umbrella...that's not easily accomplished. And we're not all the way there yet either, but I've got some idea about how to get across the finish line.”



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Share-able Stat: 72% and 5:02 –> The average video completion rate and time spent on site for The Players' Tribune



PodcastThe most popular piece of content The Cauldron has

published and the most popular (but less predictable) piece of content The Cauldron has published

Josh Gordon piece = most popular

One that surprised = “When we put out Jeremy Affeldt's retirement announcement. That piece was not a traditional retirement announcement...it was more 'Hi I'm Jeremy Affeldt, I'm retiring, here's what I won't miss about baseball.' That was a really fun thing that just blew up. There' a guy who is not the mot well-known lefty reliever ever, but is a really well-spoken dude and has some really interesting views..”



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The sports story Jamie wishes would just go away

Deflategate → “This I a really interesting time in history, generally. There' s so much going on between the election, international strife, the environment, and craziness...Yeah, we like to use sports as an escape...[but] this is such manufactured drama and who cares?....I've heard enough about this.”



PodcastThe most memorable sports event Jamie witnessed in person

the most memorable one he watched on TV

In person → The Yankees winning the World Series in the first year of the new stadium against the Phillies

On TV → “It's not the greatest, it's actually the most painful. The game 7 in the '94 NBA Finals with the [John] Starks misfire game...that was my 18th birthday and I was a huge Starks fan and a big Knicks fan...that was tough. I'll never forget that. That was life-altering.”



PodcastJamie's #1 tip for an aspiring sports journalist

“Manage your expectations...This is the kind of business that requires you to really love what you do. Because you're not going to get rich as a sports journalist and you;'re not going to have an easy time making your way in the world. If you're talented and you care about it and it's hat you want to do, then by all means go for it. But just do it with eyes wide open and don't think you're going to become the next Bill Simmons...there is just far too much competition and there are not enough legitimate good roles to go around....If someone is set on doing it, that's great, but just understand what you're getting yourself into.”



PodcastThe active or retired athlete that Jamie would most like to

see published on The Cauldron that has not done so yet

“The best kind of person you can get is someone who's reclusive. Someone who hasn't really spilled the beans yet, so to speak....Someone like Barry Bonds, if he was going to come clean with everything....Putting me on the spot, I'm not really sure Patrick Ewing is my favorite athlete ever in any sport...He doesn't want to do it right now, but hopefully worlds collide and we get him...”



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Which pro sports team or athlete stands out in creating good content for fans

“I think LeBron probably comes to mind first. He has such a robust organization. He's got things covered from all angles. He's the gold standard...It probably helps he's (one of) the best 2-3 players in the world...He's a guy that really gets it. He's very smart. He only associates with those that are aligned with his world view. He does it the right way.”



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The non-Cauldron or Sports Illustrated writer that does the best job on social media and why

Drew Magary → “The type of content he puts out, it's almost required that he interacts with his following. He dos it really well. He knows how to push buttons...He's not only really talented, he's also the everyman that everyone can relate to...[and different] than Bill Simmons...”



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The #1 sports event on Jamie's bucket list to attend

The Master's (Jamie has already been to a Super Bowl!). Jamie also mentions The British Open

“If I can blow up the Cauldron and be really independently wealthy, then I can take a golf writing gig and just do the Majors. That's the goal.”



PodcastJamie's favorite thing to eat while watching sports Pizza“Chicago pizza is not pizza.” Jamie prefers New York-style

pizza, particularly in New Haven, CT (Sally's, before they closed)



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If Jamie could pick one team go on a title run, which would it be?

The Knicks → “The irony I that I don't have a lot of time to watch sports...but I try to watch as many Knicks games as I can. I just think that's a bond that is never going to be broken...I'm long-suffering and I will stay perpetually suffering”



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Jamie's Social Media All-Star to Follow

Jim Cavan (@jpcavan)



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Where to find Jamie and The Cauldron on digital and social

Jamie is @jamieogrady on Twitter (and he is verified!)

@TheCauldron on Twitter, on Facebook, and Instagramhttps://thecauldron.si.com/


https://thecauldron.si.com/


Podcast

Thanks so much to Jamie O'Grady for joining the Digital & Social Media Sports podcast!

For more info on the podcast, check out http://www.DSMSports.net and follow me @njh287


http://www.DSMSports.net/

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Episode 68 of the DSMSports Podcast w/ Jamie O'Grady on the growth of The Cauldron Behind Quality & Distribution