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RegularMeeting#1791UNIFacultySenate
April10,2017(3:30-5:07p.m.)ScholarSpace(LIB301),RodLibrary
SUMMARYMINUTES
1.PressIdentification:Nomembersofthepresswerepresent.
2.CourtesyAnnouncements PresidentNookcommentedonthreeareasandansweredSenatorâsquestions.Topicsincluded(a)TheUniversitybudget(b)OngoingworktofillthevacancyintheMissouriValleyConferenceâsleftbyWichitaState,and(c)ChangestotheCommencementceremony.(Seepages3-9) ProvostWohlpartsaidheisimpressedbyâthedepth,thethoughtfulness,andthephilosophicalnatureofwhatâsbeingengagedâinthecreationoftheFacultyHandbook. FacultyChairKiddandFacultySenateChairGouldhadnocomments3.MinutesforApproval:March,2017(OâKane/Fenech)Passed.4.ConsiderationofCalendarItemsforDocketing1327 MotiontodocketatheadoforderandmovetoExecutiveSessionforthe purposeofdiscussionofRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellence (McNeal/Walter) https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/regents-award-faculty-excellence-1
1328ConsultativeSessionwithMartyMark,ChiefInformationOfficer,regarding emailaccountcreationanddeactivationparameters(Tobedocketedfor April24,2017Senatemeeting)(Pike/Zeitz)https://senate.uni.edu/current- year/current-and-pending-business/consultative-session-marty-mark-chief-information-0
1329 EmeritusRequestforAlanSchmitz,Music(Campbell/Cooley) https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-alan-schmitz-music
5.ConsiderationofDocketedItems
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1327/1217?MotiontodocketatheadoforderandmovetoExecutiveSessionfor thepurposeofdiscussionofRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellence (McNeal/Walter)Motionpassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/regents-award-faculty-excellence-11320/1211EmeritusRequestforMaryElizabethBoes,SocialWork,andFred Abraham,Economics(Hakes/Burnight)Motionpassed. https://uni.edu/senate/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-mary- elizabeth-boes-social-work-and-fred
1322/1212EmeritusRequestforHansIsakson,Economics;andPatriciaGross, FamilyServices.(Hakes/Walter)Motionpassed. https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-hans- isakson-economics-and-patricia-gross
1312/1213ProposaltorevisePolicy6.10,newlytitledAcademicFreedom, SharedGovernanceandAcademicResponsibility(previouslyreferred totheEPC)(Pike/Walter)MotiontomoveintothePolicyReview Process.MotionPassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending- business/proposal-revise-policy-610-newly-titled-academic-freedom
1324/1214UniversityLevelStudentLearningOutcomesforConsideration (Zeitz/Burnight)MotionPassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current- and-pending-business/university-level-student-learning-outcomes-consideration
1325/1215Proposal:Eliminationoftheadditionalthirty-twocredithour requirementforUNIstudentsseekingaconcurrentundergraduate doubledegree(twodifferentdegrees,suchasaB.S.andaB.A.ora B.A.andaB.Music)(Walter/Pike)MotionPassed. https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/proposal-elimination- additional-thirty-two-credit-hour
**Motiontoextendsessionby5minutes(Pike/Swan)**Motiontoextendsessionby10minutes(Burnight/Walter)6.Adjournment:(Burnight)5:12p.m.
NEXTMEETING:
Monday,3:30p.m.April24,2017:RodLibrary,ScholarSpace(LIB301)
Fulltranscriptof48pageswith0addendumfollows
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FULLTRANSCRIPToftheUNIFacultySenateMeeting#1791April10,2017(3:30â5:12p.m.)
AllPresent:SenatorAnnBradfield,JohnBurnight,RussCampbell,Seong-inChoi,LouFenech,ChairGretchenGould,DavidHakes,TomHesse,BillKoch,RamonaMcNeal,SteveOâKane,AmyPetersen,JoelPike,JeremySchraffenberger,NicoleSkaar,GloriaStafford,LeighZeitz,SenateSecretaryJesseSwan,Vice-ChairMichaelWalter.Also:PresidentNook,AssociateProvostsNancyCobbandKavitaDhanwada,ProvostJimWohlpart,FacultyChairTimKidd.NotPresent:NISGRepresentativeTristanBernhard.Guests:JeffFunderburk,ScottPeters,PaulShand,IraSimet,DianeWallace,ColinWeeks.Gould:GoodafternoononthisveryhotMondayintheScholarSpace.Iwantto
makeacallforpressidentification.Isanybodyherefromthepress?Seeingno
press,IwillmoveontocommentsfromPresidentNook.
Nook:Thankyou.Gretchen(Gould)andItalkedalittlebit,andItalkedwithTim
(Kidd)aswell,aboutthepossibilityofmeattendingasregularlyasIcan,justto
makeafewcomment,butnotnecessarilytotakeuptimeonyourmeetings,but
moreimportantly,togiveyouanopportunitytoaskmequestionsifyouâvegot
them,andpickanitemortwotohelpyouunderstandwherethingsaregoingin
theUniversityandthenbeabletoansweryourquestions.IknowJim(Wohlpart)
doesagreatjobatthat,butsometimesthereâsthingsinareasoutsideof
AcademicAffairs,anditâsalwaysnicetoknowthatyouâvegotaccesstothe
Presidenttoatleastaskhimquestionsifthingsaregoinginawaythatyoudonât
understand.
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SoIwanttotalkaboutreallyjustacoupleofthingstoday.Weareinthemiddleof
puttingtogetherbudgetsfor2018,butwedonâtknowtargetsyetfromtheState.
WhatwehaveistheGovernorâsbudget,andweknowthatitisnotgoingtobe
whatcomesouttheotherend.WhatweknowintheGovernorâsbudgetisthat
the$2.5millionthatwehadtogivethembackthisyearisgonefornextyearâis
whatâsisinhisbudget,plusanotherhalfmillion--$577,000.Soweâdbelookingat
athreemillion-dollaradjustmentthere.Actually,youâvegottokeepthatin
perspectiveofa$175,000,000budget,soitâsacoupleofpercent.Thelegislature,
theHouseinparticular,takesthatandtheGovernorhastosendthemone,and
theyroutinelyignoreit,andputtheirowntogether.Rightnow,whatâscomingout
istheyâresaying,âHedidnâtmakebigenoughcutstotheentireState,âandthereâs
another$20milliontheywanttoputintoplay,ascomingoutofthepossible
expenses.Buttheyhavenotmadeanycommentsyetaboutwhereitâsgoingto
comefrom.ThereâsalotmorenoiseaboutK-12,aboutprivateHigherEd,the
IowaTuitionGrants;otherprogramsanddepartmentsandthings.Sorightnow,
wedonâtknow.WeârehopingthosetargetsforeachoftheRegentialinstitutions
comeoutinthenextcoupleofdays;certainlybytheendofthisweek,sothatwe
canstarttoworkonreallyputtingourbudgetstogether.Thereâssomeexpenses
toothatwereallyneedtokindofwatch:thingsaroundhealthcarecosts;those
sortsofthings,thatallofthoseincreasesinessence,ifwecouldkeepthoseall
around,weâvegottopaythem.Thoseendupbeingcutstoourbudgetaswell.
Weâvegottofindthemoneytopaythoseaswell.Soallofthosecouldimpact
this.Itâsalittletooearlytoputanumberonthisthing.Icanâtbelieveweâregoing
tobeabletomoveforwardwiththebudgetthatwethoughtwewouldbemoving
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forwardwith.Wewillhavesomecutstoit.Whatwedonâtknowishowbigitisat
thispoint.Idonâtevenwanttospeculateonwhatitmightbe,becausewejust
donâtknowenoughatthispoint.TheVicePresidentshavebeenworkingwith
peopleonsortofbringingsomescenariostogether,andstartinginonthat
process,sothatwhenwegetanumberwecanmovealittlebitmorerapidly.
LetmechangethesubjecttoAthletics.EverybodyshouldhaveheardthatWichita
Statehasmovedoutofourconference.Thattakesusdowntonineteams.The
MissouriValleyConferenceisreallyputtogetheraroundmenâsbasketball
becauseoftherevenuethatgeneratesforus.Wegetabout$1,000,000fromthe
MissouriValley,viatheNCAAandothersforourparticipationintheconference.
Wegetthatmoneybecausetheconferenceputsmenâsbasketballteamsintothe
NCAAtournament.Thatâsadriver,right?Themoregameswewin--meaningany
memberoftheconference,thebetteroffweare.Right?Sowhatwehavestarted
todo,asthepresidentsoftheMissouriValley,istostarttolookatwhatour
optionsaretoinviteotherstojointheMissouriValleyConference.Weârenotfar
enoughalongthereyettosaytoomuch,andyouwanttosortofkeepitquiet.
Right?Thisislikewhenyouâreintheeighthgrade,andyouâregoingtoask
somebodyoutforadate.Youdonâttellanybodyuntilyoufindoutiftheysayâyesâ
ornot.[Laughter]Itâshardenough.Soweârekindofinthatweâveidentifiedsome
people.Weâllbetalkingwiththem,andwehopetohaveanewpartnerbythe
endofthesummer;probablyalotearlierthanthat.Therearealotofdetailsthat
needtobeworkedoutwiththatotherschool,andalotofthingsthatneedtobe
thoughtthroughasweselectwhowegooutandtalkto.Soagain,weâllkeepyou
postedbutwereallydonâtatthistimehaveanythingmorethanwearevery
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seriousaboutthis.Itâsabigdealbecauseoftherevenuesthataregeneratedand
comebacktotheUniversity.OurAthleticsProgramofcourseisnotrevenue-
positive,butbeinginthisconferencewithasmanyteamsâtwoteamstypically,
gettingintotheNCAAtournament,andtherevenuesthatthatgenerates,weârein
alotbettershapethanwewereatmostDivisionIIschoolsandmostDivisionI
Conferencesthatarenâtinthatsortofpower.
WeâregoingtoprobablymakesomesmallchangestoCommencement,but
nothingthatwillimpactmostofyou.Iâveheardthattherearealargenumberof
peopleonthestage,anditgetskindofcrowded,sowhatIthinkofasthe
âplatformparty.âWeâlltrytopullthatbackalittlebittopeoplethatreallyneedto
beupthere.TheothersIstillwanttoattend,andbeseatedandgownedand
robedup,andthosesortsofthings,butmakesurethatweârenottoocongested
onthestage.Itmakesitalittleeasierforthestudentstogetacrossthestageand
theparentstoseethemandthosesortsofthings.Letmestopthere.Iâdbehappy
toansweranyquestionswithinthetimethatyouwanttogive.
Gould:AnyquestionsforPresidentNook?Hakes:Dowealreadyhaveatemporaryhiringfreezefornextyear?Whatâsour
situationonthat?Arewejustonhold?
Wohlpart:Wedonât,David(Hakes),soyouallhopefullyknowthis:within
AcademicAffairs,the$2.5milliondollarcutthatwehadtotakethisyear,$1.923
wasinAcademicAffairs,wetookthatcentrally,outoftheAcademicAffairs
ProvostâsOffice.WhatIâveaskedthedeanstodoistoworkwiththedepartment
headsandwiththeCollegeSenatestogeneratealistofprioritizedfacultylines
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forFallâ18.WehavenâtstoppedthehiresthatarecomingfortheFallofâ17,and
weârestillintheprocessofmakingthosehires.Tocreatethatprioritizedlist
whichwewillthenvetattheDeanâsCouncil.WewillprobablywaituntilAugust
orSeptemberwhenweknowwhatourenrollmentis,whichisalargepartofour
revenue,tobeabletodecidewhatofthoselineswouldgoforwardforFallofâ18.
TheotherthingthathappenshereatUNI,perhapsitâscommonelsewhere--isthat
wefindoutsometimesinAugustthatpeoplearegoingtoretireinthefallorwill
retireattheendofthatyear,sothereâsalotofmovementinandout,sowehave
totrackthataswell.Sowehavenotfrozenhiring,weâregoingtobeverystrategic
inwhatwedowithourhiringprocesses.
Nook:Wehavenâtfrozenthemintheotherunitseither.Ibelieveyouneedto
makestrategiccuts,ifyoudoneedtomakecutsininvestmentsâyouneedtodo
thatstrategically,andnotjustbecauseapositionisopen.Right?Oneofmysort
offundamentalwaysoflookingatbudgetingisifyouâreinthatrealmwhereyou
havetomakesomereductions,youdonâthavethemoneytoinvestinthe
Universitythatyouâdliketohaveorusedtohave,thenyoudoeverythingyoucan
tolimittheimpactonstudents.Youhavethemostpositiveoutcome.Youinvest
thebestpossible.Andifyoureallybelievethat,andyoulookattwoprogramsand
oneisgrowing,gettingmorestudentsout,moremajors,hasgrowingSCH
(SemesterCreditHours),hasgrowingpublications--everythingaboutitlooksgreat
andtheyhappentohavearetirement,andinanotherprogram,allthosethings
aremovingintheotherdirection,doyoureallytakethatposition?Isthatwhat
youwanttodobecausethenyouâregoingtohurtmorestudentsthantakingone
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fromaprogramthatâsnot.Thatgetshard.Butthatisnâtjustanacademicthing.
Thatâsacrosstheboard.
Youlookatwhereyourmoneyisgoingtogetyouthebestreturn--forour
students,inthiscase.AndsoIdonâtliketomakeopportunistic,andIalsodonât
liketomakeacross-the-board,forexactlythesamereason.Ithinkacross-the-
boardcutsareanadministratorâseasywayout.Youdonâthavetojustifyit.
Everybodytakesthesamething.
Zeitz:Insomecases,whereyoudonâthaveacriticalmassoffacultythough,you
endupwhereyouâreteachingandyouâreworkinganddoingalltheotherservice
worksoyoudonâtgetyourpublicationsdone.Soinsomecases,Ithinkthatneeds
tobeconsidered.
Nook:Italwaysis.Ithastobeaholisticlookatthings.Butifyoudonâthavea
criticalmasstoevenbeteachingtheclassesandapositioncomesopen,then
thatâsaneed.
Zeitz:Thankyou.Gould:Thankyou,PresidentNook.Nook:Youbet.Thankyou.Cooley:Asyouweretalkingaboutthesestrategicchoices,dotuitionincreases
comeintothestrategyoftheequation?Canyouspeaktothatatall?
Nook:Yes,weknowthatweâvegota2%tuitionincreasealreadyapproved.I
wouldnotatallbesurprisedthattheRegentsconsiderexpandingthat;makingit
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evenbigger.Itâsmyfeeling,weâvegotacurrentRegentpresidentwhoseterm
endsinlessthan30days,whosebeenclearabouttryingtokeeptuitionincreases
steady,andnotsomethingthatâsgoingtoshockstudents,right?Sokeepsmall
steps;butconstantsmallstepsyearafteryearafteryear,insteadofflattening
thingsoutandthenhavetonailâemforayear,right,assomepeoplewouldsay.
Ithinkthatâsprobablyagoodplan.Itâssafer.Yougofiveyearswithoutatuition
increase,yougetawholebunchofpeoplethatgetitprettyeasy,andthenyou
slamawholebunchofotherstudentswitha10%.Iâmnotexpectingthattheywill
comeinandsayâLetâsfillthehole,theentirehole,âbecausetheentireholecould
meandoublingthat2%ormore,andIâmnotholdingmybreaththatthisgroupof
Regentswoulddothat.ButIalsodoexpectthattheywillhaveaveryserious...At
theAprilBoardofRegentsmeetingwhichisnextweek,itcouldbediscussed.It
canâtbeapproved.Itactuallytakestwomeetingstoactuallygetatuitionincrease
approved.
Gould:Thankyou,PresidentNook.Nook:Thankyou.Next,commentsfromProvostWohlpart.Wohlpart:IthinkIâmgood.Everythingâscovered,unlessthereâsanyquestions,
anythingelsethatyoufolksarethinkingabout.Iâvebeenreviewingdraftsofthe
FacultyHandbookpiecesthathavebeencoming,andtheyârejustawesome.Iâm
justreally,reallyimpressedandpleasedwiththedepth,thethoughtfulness,the
philosophicalnatureofwhatâsbeingengaged,andIdidnâtexpectthatbecauseitâs
suchashorttimeframeandsuchcomplicatedissues.Ithinkeverybodywillbe
extremelyhappy.Thatâsmysense.
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Gould:Thankyou.CommentsfromFacultyChairKidd?Kidd:No.Iâdjustliketoechothatwehaveagoodworkingrelationshipwiththe
FacultyHandbook,soIthinkthingsaregoingwell.Thatâsaboutitthough.
Gould:Thankyou.Ihavenocommentssinceeverybodyelsehascovered
practicallyeverything.So,movingon,weneedtoapprovetheminutesfromthe
March27thSenatemeeting.CanIhaveamotiontoapprove?Somovedby
SenatorOâKane,secondedbySenatorFenech.Allinfavorofapprovingthe
minutesfromtheMarch27thmeeting,pleasesayâaye,âopposed,ânay,âabstain,
âaye.âMotionpasses.MovingontoConsiderationofCalendarItemsfor
Docketing.AsFacultyChairKiddmentionedatthelastmeeting,wewouldtakeup
theRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellenceattodayâsmeeting,sincetheawardsare
tobeissuedverysoon.SowewillgointoExecutiveSessionforaveryshorttime
atthebeginning,somayIhaveamotiontodockettheRegentâsAwardforFaculty
ExcellencegoingintoExecutiveSession?SomovedbySenatorMcNeal,seconded
byVice-ChairWalter.AllinfavorofgoingintoExecutiveSessionfortheRegents
AwardforFacultyExcellenceatthebeginningofthedocket,pleasesay,âaye,âall
opposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.NextupwehaveaConsultative
SessionwithMartyMarkforApril24th.Shewantstocomeandtalktothefaculty
abouttheemailaccountandsomeissuesandproblemsthattheyâvehadanda
proposalformovingforward.SocanIhaveamotiontodocketthat?Somovedby
SenatorPike,secondedbySenatorZeitz.Allinfavorofdocketingtheconsultative
sessionwithMartyMark,pleasesay,âaye,âopposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.â
Campbell:Weâredocketingitforaparticulardate,thatshouldbenoted?
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Gould:Yes.Yes.ShouldIrephrasethemotion?[No]
Campbell:Itâsontheagenda.
Gould:Abstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.Andthelastthingtobeconsideredfor
docketingistheEmeritusRequestfromAlanSchmitzintheMusicDepartment.So
movedbySenatorCampbell,secondedbySenatorCooley.Allinfavorof
docketingtheemeritusrequestforAlanSchmitzinMusic,pleasesay,âaye,â
opposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.Okay,nowweareatthe
ConsiderationofDocketedItems,sowewillbegoingintoexecutivesessionfor
ten,maybefifteenminutesorless.
Swan:ImovethatweaccepttheslateofcandidatesfortheRegentsAward
presentedbyFacultyChairKidd.
Gould:SenatorBurnightseconded.Allinfavorofapprovingtheslateof
candidatesfortheRegentsFacultyAwardforExcellence,pleasesay,âaye,â
opposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âThemotionpasses.Sonextupwehavean
emeritusrequestforMaryElizabethBoesfromSocialWorkandFredAbraham
fromEconomics.Doesanybodyhaveanycomments?
Hakes:IwillspeakonbehalfofFred[Abraham]brieflyâbutIshouldspeaklonger
sinceheâsbeenherefor44years.IdonâtknowhowmanypeopleknowFred.
Fredâsheadofthedepartmentandhasbeenfor27years,andheâsretiringin
August.EverymemberofthedepartmentwashiredbyFredexceptone,andIwas
hisfirstofficialhireafterhebecameactualhead,frombeinginterimhead.So,
heâsactuallyconstructedtheentireEconomicsDepartmentassuch.Heâsan
excellentteacher.Iâmveryfortunatetohavealwayshadadepartmentchairthat
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wasanexcellentteacher,becauseIcanâtimaginehowawkwardthatwouldbeif
yoursupervisingfirstlevelwasaverypoorteacher.Heâsbuiltthedepartment
basedonthat.Heâsanexcellentteacher.Heâshad14,000studentsofhisown,
teachinglargeclassesineconomics,andbuiltthedepartmentfromessentially
veryfewmajorstocruisingat150majorsandequalormoreminors,andIthink
heâsproudestofthefactthatwhenhetookover,weonlyhadoneendowed
scholarship,andnowwehaveten,andtheendowedscholarshipsfromstudents.
Sowehavenurturedsomeveryproductivestudentswhoâvegoneoutandhad
excellentcareers,andhavegivenbacktotheUniversityandhavesizable
endowedscholarships--allcreatedfrompaststudents.Itallfitstogetherwithhis
concernforteaching,andthepeoplethathehiredandhimselfkeepingavery
tightrelationshipwithallofourpastgraduates,placingthemwell,oraidingtheir
placementingraduateschoolsandlawschoolandsoon.Andthentakingthem
outtolunchwhentheyârebackintown,becausethatâsaverydangerousthing
whenFredasksyououtforlunch,becauseyouknowitâsgoingtocostyou.Thatâs
notafreelunch,aswesay.[Laughter]Ithinkthatheâshadaveryhonorable
careerhere,andhehiredme,andIâmpleasedwithhismanagementofthe
department.AndIcertainlyhopethatwegethislineback.
Wohlpart:Ibelieveyouârehiring.Hakes:Wellweare,butnoonewantstofollowFred(Abraham).Gould:Thankyou,SenatorHakes.Anyothercomments?Campbell:Justatechnicalnote:IsnâthealsoheadofFinanceatthispointintime?Hakes:Youâreright,atthistimeheisalsoheadofFinance;foraboutthelastfour
years,soheisadualdepartmenthead.Thetwodepartmentsarestill
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independent.TheyeachhavetheirownPAC,[ProfessionalAssessment
Committee]andsohegoestodoublemeetingsandhandlesthepromotions,and
inasensetheyhavetheirowndecision-makingbodies,andthenheistheheadof
bothdepartments.Butthatâsafairlyrecentphenomenonâthelastfouryears,I
believe.Soinfact,sincehetookonthatrole,histeachingloadhasbeendropped,
whichisashame.Itisalwaysadebate:Doyouwasteyourbestteacherasan
administrator(nooffense)[Laughter]youpullthemoutoftheclassroom,but
weârealsooffendedwhenwehaveaverypoorteachersupervisingotherpeople
whoareexcellentteachers.Soitisalwaysadilemma.Thereâsnoanswertothat
question.Infact,heâsanexcellentteacherwhohascontinuedtoteachlarge
sectionsandbeheavilyinvolveduntilthelastmaybetwoorthreeyears,andwe
misshimintheclassroom.Hecouldteachforever.Weâdinvitehimback,butI
donâtthinkthatâsgoingtohappen,butwecertainlywould.Yes,thankyoufor
bringingthatup.
Gould:AnyothercommentsoneitherDr.AbrahamorDr.Boes?Seeingnone,
mayIhaveamotiontograntemeritusstatustoMaryElizabethBoesfromSocial
WorkandFredAbrahamfromEconomics?MovedbySenatorHakes,secondby
SenatorBurnight.Allinfavor,pleasesay,âaye,âopposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.â
Motionpasses.Nextupisanothersetofemeritusrequests.ThisisforHans
IsaksonfromEconomicsandPatriciaGrossfromFamilyServices.Doesanybody
wanttosayanythingabouteitherofthesetwoprofessors?
Hakes:Hans(Isakson)isretiringaswellandconnectstotheFinanceand
EconomicsDepartment.ManyofyouknowHans.Heâsprobablymostnotedfor
hisserviceonthiscampus.HeâsbeenpastChairoftheSenate,andheâspast
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presidentofUnitedFaculty.Heactuallywasbroughthereinthefinance
departmentasheadofrealestate.Thereweresomechangesmadeinrealestate.
HisPh.D.isinEconomics.Whenthattookplace,IthinkwemadeatradeforHans
(Isakson)withtwoprofessorstobenamedlaterinafuturedraftchoiceor
something.Itwasactuallyabetterfitinourdepartment,anditâsworkedoutvery
nicely,forbothHansandfortheEconDepartment.Hansisalsoinvolvedinagreat
dealofexternalconsulting,soheâsverynicetohavearound,andwehopewecan
stillhavecontactwithHansandkeephislinealso.[Laughter]
Gould:Ihopeyoumadenoteofthat.Thankyou.Doesanybodyelsewishtospeak
onbehalfofeitheroftheseemerituscandidates?Seeingnooneelsewishesto
speak,IwillaskforamotiontoapprovetheemeritusstatusforHansIsakson
fromEconomicsandPatriciaGrossfromFamilyServices.MovedbySenator
Hakes:DidyouraiseyourhandMichael(Walter)?
Walter:Yes.
Gould:AndsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter.Allinfavorofgrantingemeritus
statustoHansIsaksonandPatriciaGross,pleasesay,âaye,âopposed,ânay,â
abstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.
Walter:Remindmenevertoattendahorseauction.[Laughter]
Gould:Nextup,wehavetheproposaltorevisePolicy6.10,newlytitledAcademic
Freedom,SharedGovernanceandAcademicResponsibility.Thiscamebeforethe
Senatelastfall.WereferredittoEPC,andrequestedtheyconsultwiththe
AdministrationandAnitaGordon.Theyhavedonethat,soScott(Peters)isback
withanupdate.Isthistheversion?Theredlineversion?
Peters:Yes.
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Gould:Okay.Sowouldyouliketomakeanycomments?Peters:Sure,justbriefly.Thanksforhavingmeback.Iâmhereonbehalfofthe
EducationalPoliciesCommission.IâmVice-Chairofthatcommittee.Welookedat
thereferral,madeveryfewchangestoit.WedidconsultwithAdministration,in
fact,suggestedlanguagetostrengthentheguaranteeofacademicfreedom.Ifyou
noticeinthethirdparagraphofthePurposeStatement,thelanguagenowsays,
âTheUniversitythereforemustguaranteeacademicfreedomforitsfaculty.âThe
wordâguaranteeâwassuggestedbyProvostWohlpart,andsoAdministrationhas
beenverysupportive.WeconsultedwithAnitaGordonandtheCenterfor
AcademicEthics.She,alongwithAdministration,expressedconcernthatthe
responsibilitiessideofthepolicyneedstobeupdated.EPCagreeswiththat.
Giventheimportanceofthetopicandthetenorofthetimes,wefeelthatitâsan
importantstatementfortheUniversitytomakerightnowaboutourcommitment
toacademicfreedom,andasVice-ChairoftheEPC,IâmhereonbehalfoftheEPC
tosaythatwewilltakeuptheresponsibilitysideoftheequationnextyear,and
doamoreholisticreviewofnotonlythispolicy,butalsotheacademicethicsand
researchpolicy,andalsothestudentacademicethicspolicy,whichAnitaâs
(Gordonâs)Center[theCenterforAcademicEthics]recentlydidasurveythat
indicatedthatthereâsquiteabitofmisunderstandingaboutthatpolicyandit
needstoberevisitedaswell.IthinkifanythingsinceIlastcametotalktoyou,
eventssincethattimehavemadeadoptionofthispolicyevenmoreimportant.
TheUniversityneedsastrongstatementofacademicfreedom,andtheroleit
playsininstitutionsofHigherEd.Inourpolicy.Wealwaysneededtomakeit
stronger,Ithink.ButIthinkthatâsevenmoreimportantnow,giventhe
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restrictions,sotospeakoftheMasterAgreement,andgivensomeofthethings
weâreseeingnationallyintermsofrealchallengestothevaluesofacademic
freedom.
Gould:DoesanybodyhaveanyquestionsforScott(Peters)?Swan:DoesthisrequireustochangeourFacultyConstitution?So,forexample
rightnowIdonâtknowiftenure-lineassistantprofessorsarebarredfrombeing
ChairoftheFacultySenate,forexample,buttermfacultyare.Adjunctfacultyare.
Thispolicysoundslikethatwouldbeinviolationofthispolicy.Itcertainlyseems
tomewouldbeinviolationofthespiritofthismoreacademicfreedomformore
people,thatisinformingthis.SoIwonderaboutyourviewofthat.
Peters:Iâmnotsurethatthatrequiresthattohappen,butIthinkitallowsitto
happen.IfyouâllnoticethelanguageinRomanNumeralTwo,whichsaysthat,
âTheUniversityshallstrivetointegrateallfacultyintothesharedgovernanceof
theUniversity,consistentwiththetermsoftheircontract.âIthinkthatallowsfor
alevelofprotectionofparticipationinsharedgovernancethatwouldallowthe
Universityfaculty,ifitchoosesto,toexpandvotingrightstothosewhoplayarole
inthatsharedgovernance,whoarenâtalreadymembersofthevotingfaculty.So
basicallythatwouldbetherelativelysmallhandfulofadjunctfacultywhohave
someserviceresponsibility,andthesomewhatlargernumberoftermfaculty,I
wouldthink,manyofwhomalreadydothosethings.Butthatâsultimatelyupto
theUniversityfacultytodecide.Itwouldhavetobeafacultyamendmenttothe
FacultyConstitution.
17
Hakes:Soyouâresaying,someonecouldbeChairoftheFacultySenateand
couldnâtsitonaPAC?Isthatcorrect?
Peters:Well,Idonâtknowbecausewedonâtknowbecausewedonâtknowwhat
PACSaregoingtolooklikeunderthenewFacultyHandbook.
Hakes:IwouldthinkthatnoonewouldbesittingonaPACthatâsnottenure-
track.
Peters:IactuallysaidnothingaboutwhocouldbeChairoftheUniversityFaculty.
AllIsaidwasthatifthefacultychose,itcouldexpandvotingrights,knowingthat
byexpandingvotingrights--knowingthatindoingso,thosepeoplewhoitâsgiving
votingrightswouldhavesomeprotectionintheirparticipationinfaculty
governance.Rightnow,thoseofuswhoareontenureortenure-tracklinesenjoy
theprotectionoftenure,right?Wehavepeople,includingpeopleatthistable,
whodoservice,butwhodonâtenjoycurrentlyanyreallevelofprotectionfrom
theirengagementinthatserviceunderUniversitypolicy.Thiswouldgivethem
somelevelofprotection.
Hakes:AmImistakenoristhatnotprotectionearnedbyhavingatenure-track
line?Whatyouâresayingisatenure-trackpersonhastogothroughhurdlesand
jumpsandleapsandsupervision,andonandontogainthatindependence,but
someonewhoâsjusthiredatamomentandjustinstantlyhasit?
Peters:IâmmakingnoclaimsaboutwhattheFacultyConstitutionwilllooklikeor
whowillbeabletohavevotingrights.Thatisupultimatelytothefacultyto
decide.Personally,Idonâtbelievethatthetenuresystemsetsupaclasssystem
18
thatdeniestoanentirecategoryofpeopletheabilitytoparticipatemeaningfully
inthecommunitythattheychoosetobeapartof,butsomefacultymembersdo
believethat.
Hakes:Donâtwerestrictvotingoncertaincommitteesandallsortsofthingsto
tenuredfacultywhenwedothat?
Peters:Again,IwouldsaythatthatisultimatelyuptotheUniversityfacultyto
decide,andwecanhavethatdebate.ThisdoesnotcompeltheUniversityfaculty
tomakethatdecision.
Hakes:Thoseindividualswouldnothavetherighttobeonthatcommitteedueto
this?
Peters:Duetothischangealone?No.IftheUniversityfacultychosetoexpand
thoserights,thischangewouldgivesomelevelofprotection,thatwouldmake
thatparticipationmoresecureandmoremeaningfulforthem.
Pike:Iâmjusttryingtoclarifyhere.Sothispolicyisaboutextendingacademic
freedomprotectionstofacultywhoarenotnecessarilycurrentlycoveredbythe
policynow?Itencouragesthesharedgovernance,butitdoesnâtreallyaddress
howthatwouldbeimplemented,orhowthatsharedgovernancemeans.Thisis
moreaboutextendedtheprotectionsofacademicfreedom?AmIgettingthat
correct?
Peters:IwouldagreewiththatandIwouldmakeoneslightchangetoit,andthat
isthatatthemoment,andIhavenâtseendraftsofthehandbook,soIhaveno
19
cluewhattheHandbooksays,orwhatitwillsayâbutatthemoment,whenthe
MasterAgreementexpires,thereisnothinginUniversitypolicythatindicatesany
levelofprotectionofacademicfreedomatthemoment.Okay?Tome,thatis
fundamentallywrongforaUniversitytohavenostatementsinitspolicyabout
theimportanceandcentralityofacademicfreedomtotheenterpriseinwhich
weâreengaged.SowhatIwouldsaythatslightlychanges,isthatthispolicy
protectseverybodyâsacademicfreedom.
Wohlpart:IfIcouldjustclarify,itprotectsallfacultymemberâsacademicfreedom
indoingtheirduties,theirresponsibilities?
Peters:Absolutely.Yes.Wohlpart:Letâsjustbeclear,itdoesnotextendittostaff,professionaland
scientificstaff,ormeritstaff.AndIwanttopointoutthatthereisdistinction
betweenacademicfreedomandsharedgovernance.Thisisperhapsopeningthe
doortobroadenthecultureofwhoâsincludedinsharedgovernancewhichgoes
David,(Hakes)toyourquestion.Itdoesnotdecidetheanswertothatquestion,
butitopensthedoortothepossibility.Itdoesnotsaythatsomeonewhoâsnotin
aPAC,nottenured,canallofasuddendoX,Y,&Z,butitdoesopenthedoorfor
youalltohavethoseconversations.AndwhatIappreciateaboutthis,istheidea
thatsuddenlyaclassoffolkswhomaynothavebeenincludedincertainshared
governancepractices,nowcanbe,anditâsreallyuptothefacultytocome
togethertodecidewhatthatmeans.Iwilljustgiveyouâthisisnotanimposition
onthefacultyâIwouldagreewithwhatScott(Peters)said,Idonâtseeanyreason
whyyoushouldnotextendthatcourtesytoallfacultywhoaredoingthecore
20
workofteachingourstudents,indifferentways.Butthatâsuptothefacultyto
decide.
Swan:IâmgladyoupointedouttheSectionTwobecauseIthinkthatâsthenubof
whatweârediscussinghere.Thisisapolicy,right?Andsoitwillbeincumbent
upontheAdministrationtoexecutethispolicy,anditsoundstomethatFaculty
Constitutionisinviolationofthispolicy.Butyouâresayingthatitâsnot.Thatwe
cancontinuewiththecurrentFacultyConstitution,ifthatâswhatwedecide.And
itsoundstomethatwecanât.AndIâmsupportiveofchangingtheFaculty
Constitutiontodothis,butIwantittobeclearherethatthisbody--the
representativesoftheFaculty,areputtingintopolicy--somethingthatmakestheir
Constitutionobsoleteorinviolation,andinneedofupdating,changing,
embracingtheincreasedacademicfreedomformorepeople;thesesortsof
things.SoIdonâtthinkthatitâsgoodforustosaythatitdoesnâtdothat.Wecan
continuetobeatodds,butwewouldbeatodds.Wethefacultyrepresentatives,
saythisisgood,andourConstitutiondoesneedtobechanged,andweshould
addressthatinthefall,itseemstome.
Peters:Iunderstandwhatyouâresaying.IâvehavealwaysbeenâIâlladmitthat
IâvealwaysbeenalittleâŠIdonâtknowwhattherightwordisâconfused,Iguess,
foralackofabetterword,abouttherelationshipbetweentheFaculty
ConstitutionandUniversitypolicies.Iâvecertainlyheardfacultymembersexpress
theviewwhichIunderstand,thattheFacultyConstitutionandthebylawsofthe
Senateisfundamentallyaboutwhatthefacultywanttodo.Wecanreorganize
ourselves,andinsenseourorganizationofthefacultydoesnâtdependonthe
Administration,right?Itâsindependentofthat.Wegettogetherasafacultyand
21
wemakeourdecisions.ButIdohearwhatyouâresayingaboutasrepresentatives
ofthefacultypassingthis.ThatcouldsuggestthattheFacultyConstitutionneeds
tobechanged.Asyouknow,whatpromptedthiswasinfactarecognitionthat
acrosscampusforsometime,therehadbeenacademicunitsthatarenât
followingtheFacultyConstitution,andthatperiodicallyleadstopeoplewhoare
involvedandengaged,gettingelectedtoUniversitycommitteesandthenwehave
togobackandholdnewelections,becausetheyârenoteligibletobeonthe
Universitycommittees.Ourlargestcollegegrantsvotingrightstopeoplewhoâ
itâsConstitution,itsbylaws,grantsvotingrightstopeoplewhoarenotvoting
membersoftheUniversityfaculty--namelytermfacultymembers.AndsoIthink
thatpersonally,IsupportsomechangetotheFacultyConstitutionthat
guaranteesthatthosewhohaveserviceobligations;thosewhoaresomething
morethanjustâŠIdonâtknowwhatthelanguagewouldlooklike.Butinmymind,
itâsnotnecessarilytheStateSenatorthatwehiretoteachaclassonceevery
otheryear,butfacultymemberswhoaretrulymembersofthecommunity,
shouldhavetheabilitytoparticipatemeaningfullyinthatcommunity.
Swan:TofollowupwiththatScott,(Peters)thepoliciesâandthatâswhatthisis
beforeus,aretheresponsibilityoftheAdministrationtoexecuteandmakesure
theyâreabidedby.WhereastheFacultyConstitutionistheresponsibilityofthe
facultytomanagethatandguaranteethat.So,withthispolicy,thesedecisions
arebeingputultimatelyinthehandsoftheAdministration?Isthatcorrect?
Peters:Idonâtknowananswertothatquestion,honestly.Doyouseelanguage
thatyouthinkcouldbechangedthatwouldresolvethat?
22
Swan:Iâmnotsurethatthatâsnecessarilyabadthing.Therecouldbegood
things.
Campbell:Asapolicy,whenwearepassingthisweareendorsingthis,butitâsthe
Administrationwhichisgoingtoapproveit.Theymaydosomewordsmithing
beforetheyapproveit,andthePresidentâscabinetisgoingtohavetoapprove
this.WhereastheFacultyConstitutionIbelieveâthatbelongstothefaculty.Is
thatcorrect?
Peters:Correct.Campbell:ThisisaUniversitypolicy.ItdoesnotgointoeffectuntilthePresidentâs
cabinetapprovesit.
Wohlpart:Yes,wecantalkaboutprocess,whichwouldbeimportanttodo.This
wouldgotothePolicyReviewCommittee.ItwillgototheCabinet.ItgoestoEMT
[ExecutiveManagementTeam].Weareprobablysixmonthsofffromthisbeing
approved,atleast.Maybelonger.Everythingisaprocess,andIappreciatethe
factthatitâscomingtoyouallfirstforyourconsideration.Thisnotyourlast
chancetocommentonthis.Youactuallywillgetotherchances,becauseweput
allpoliciesupforUniversityreview.
Hakes:Iamabitconfused.Weopenedthediscussionasifthisisjustabout
spreadingacademicfreedomacrossmoreofourfacultymembers.Butthenthe
discussionsayswhatinitiatedthiswasgettingvotingrightsforpeople.Andyouâre
going,âThatâswhatIthought.âYousee,thosetwoâŠthatâswhatIthought.The
objectiveisundertheguiseofacademicfreedomforeverybody.Weâregoing
23
toâŠitwonâthappenimmediately,butitwillopenupthediscussionforvoting
rightsfortermpeople,whichiswhatitseemstome.
Peters:Iwouldobjecttothecharacterizationofitasâundertheguiseof
academicfreedom.âItâsexpandingtheabilityofpeoplewhodolaborandteach
ourstudents,andparticipateinoursharedgovernancetovoicetheiropinionsis
notaguise.Thatâsavalue.AnditâsafundamentalvaluethatIwouldhopewe
wouldallshare.
Hakes:ItâswhatinitiatedâŠPeters:WhatinitiateditâŠHakes:Whatinitiatedwasthefactthatwehadpeoplesittingoncommitteesthat
wereeitherviolatingtheConstitution,andwewantedtogetthatfixed.Iâmjust
sayingâŠIâmjustrepeatingbacktoyouwhatyousaid.
Peters:IwouldsaythatâsclosetowhatIjustsaid,whichiswhatinitiateditwasa
recognitionthatourcurrentpoliciesdonotprotectthewaysthatinmanycases
ourfacultycurrentlyparticipateinsharedgovernance.
Pike:Soitdoesseemtomethatthereisaconflictinthepolicythatâsbeing
presentedtous.Inthelastparagraph,afterRomanNumeralOne,Academic
Freedom,thereisasentencethatsays,âAllfaculty,regardlessofrankor
appointment,shallbeentitledtoprotectionoftheiracademicfreedom,âand
thenâandshallbeprovidedtheopportunitytofullyparticipateinshared
governance.âThenRomanNumeralTwosays,talksaboutacommitment,âshall
strivetointegrateallfaculty,âbutitdoesnâtreallysayhowthatshouldbedone.
24
AndIthinkthatâswheretheissueis.Thereâssomeconflict.Inoneplaceit
proscribeshowthatshouldbedone,andthisparagraphjustsays,âWeshould
strivetodothat.âAndthinkingaboutthepotentialconflictwiththeFaculty
Constitution.Doesthatmakesense,thatthereâssortofaconflictthere?
Peters:Iunderstandwhatyouâresaying.Thatparagraphyoupointto,thefirst
paragraphunderâPolicy.âIcanâtrememberforsureâŠYeah,thatwasnotin
theâŠthatmaynothavebeeninthedraftthelasttimeIcametoyou.Mynotesare
alittleincompletehere,butIfeellikethatmighthavebeeninsertedasaresultof
ourfirstdiscussionwithyou.
Pike:ItdoeslooklikeitcomesfromtherecommendationoftheAAUPreport.Iâm
justpointingoutthereâsalittlebitofacontradictionthereintermsofwhether
wewanttotalkaboutstrivingandbeingopen;howweâregoingtoaccomplish
thatgoalasspecified.
Hesse:Isstriveconsistentwiththetermsofourcontract?Pike:Right,butagainthatotherparagraphsaystheyshouldallbevoting.They
shouldallparticipate.âShallbeprovidedtheopportunitytofullyparticipatein
sharedgovernance.â
Hesse:Itdoesnâtsayvotingrights.Wohlpart:Thatâsnotvotingrights.Howyoudeterminesharedgovernanceisuptoyou.Pike:Maybethatâswheretheconfusionis.
25
Wohlpart:IfIcouldmakeacomment:OneofthethingsthatIactuallytalked
aboutwhenIinterviewedandinthefirstyearthatIwashere,wasthatwedonât
reallyhavearobustenoughunderstandingofsharedgovernanceonthiscampus,
inmyopinion.Ithinkwecrossthelinesinallsortsofwayswithshared
governance.IwouldencourageâIthinkthisissuchahealthyconversation,butI
donâtthinkyouallaregoingtogettowhereyouneedtobetoday,becauseIthink
whatyouâretalkingaboutisapotentialcultureshift,whichisawesomethat
youâretalkingaboutthat,butthisisnotaplacetoshiftculture.Andapolicyâsnot
aplacetoshiftculture.SoIwouldencourageyouallto,andIhatetodothisto
Scott(Peters)becauseheâsworkedreallyhardonthis,istohavemaybeamore
robustconversationoutsideofRobertâsRules,whereyouguyscanreallytalk
aboutwhereyouâreheaded.
Peters:TheproblemwiththatiswehaveamajorCatch22,andthatisthatthe
cultureshiftdiscussionisfundamentallyaboutthekindofthingsthatSenator
HakesandIhavebeentalkingabout.Butthatdiscussionisalmostmootifpeople
whocurrentlyarenâtrecognizedundertheFacultyConstitutionasvoting
membershavenoprotectionfortheirparticipationinthefirstplace.Soit
becomesasortofchickenandeggquestion.Somethingjustoccurredtome,andI
donâtknowwhyitneveroccurredtomeinthemonthsthatweâveworkedonthis
indifferentcommittees,butratherthanthelanguageinRomanNumeralTwo
about,âintegratingallfacultyintosharedgovernanceoftheUniversity,consistent
withthetermsoftheircontract,âIwonderiftherecouldbelanguageinthere
thatsayssomethinglike,âintegratingallfacultyrecognizedbytheFaculty
Constitutionasvotingmembers.âThatwouldgivetheprotectiontoallvoting
26
membersinUniversityPolicy,andthenwouldallowthebroaderdiscussionof
whoshouldbeavotingmembertohappen.IdonâtknowwhatSenatorHesseor
SenatorKochthinksofthatpossibility.Idonâtknow.Itâshonestlysomethingthat
justoccurredtome.
Hesse:Iâmnotafanofthis.Isupportthepolicy.Iâmnotafanofwhatwasjust
proposed.IwasinvolvedinanearlydraftofthisandthenIleftthegroup.Andthe
contextforthisis,wetalkaboutacademicfreedom,academicresponsibilityand
sharedgovernance,butwereallydonâthaveanysetpoliciesorclearexplanations
aboutwhatthesetermsactuallymean.Sowhatwedidiswetriedtograbwhat
wehadfromanyresourcesavailableatUNI,lookatotherschools,lookatAAUP
andcombinethemalltogetherinadocumentwhichwehaverighthere.Thetopic
ofextendingvotingrightsisavery,veryimportanttopic,butthatâsaseparate
topicthanthis.Thisisjustapolicystatementonacademicfreedom,academic
responsibility,andsharedgovernance.Inparticular,protectingpeoplewho
choosetoserveoncommitteeswhohaveadjunctorparttimestatus.Roman
NumeralTwothere,SharedGovernance.AndsoIâmconcernedthatthe
discussionâsgettingblurredbetweenthispolicyandextendingvotingrights.I
wouldconsiderthosetobedefinitelyseparateissues.Thevotingrightsextension
willbeprobablydiscussedinthefuture,butthekeythingisâitâsinthefuture.
Peters:Actually,yourcommentjuststruckhomeanotherpointthatweâvekindof
overlooked,andthatâsthatevenifthefacultyweretokeepthecurrentdefinition
ofâvotingfaculty,âtherestillarecircumstances,asontheSenate,wherenon-
votingfacultyparticipateinsharedgovernance.Therearenon-votingfaculty
membersinvariouscommittees.
27
Hesse:Thereâsatleastonecommitteeononecampuswhereadjunctsarea
majorityofthemembersonthecommittee.Theworldischanged,andsothisis
designednottoextendvotingrights,buttoextendsomeprotectionsforthe
peoplewhochoosetoserveUNI,andofteninvolvegoingbeyondwhattheir
contractstipulates.
Campbell:IâmjustthinkingthatIthinkitâstooproactiveforsomepeople.Again,
underpolicy,âShallbeentitledtoprotectedacademicfreedom,shallbeprovided
theopportunitytofullyparticipateinsharedgovernance.âIthinkyouwanted
somethingmorelike,âWhichwillprotectthemwhenparticipatinginshared
governance.âAnddownunderTwo,âShallstrivetointegrateallfacultyinto
sharedgovernance.âAgain,thatisamorepowerfulstatementthanmanypeople
wouldlikeatthispointintime.âShallprotectfacultywhileservinginshared
governance,âratherthanâStrivingtoâbringthemintosharedgovernance.
Swan:Ithinkthatpartoftheissue,andyouwerehittingonitverynicely,isthat
someofthewords,suchasâfullparticipants.âWhenwereadthat,whatdoesthat
mean?Toalotpeoplethatwouldmeanâoh,well--voting.Thatifyoudonâtvote,
youârenotgiventheopportunitytofullyparticipate.Althoughunderourcurrent
systemofsharedgovernanceasconstructedbytheFacultyConstitution,non-
votingfacultymembersdofullyparticipatewhentheyengagetheroleasanon-
votingfacultymember.Ithinkthatâspartofwhatyouâreunderstanding.Youâre
understandingthefullnessofthehistoryofUNI,andthegoverningdocuments
andthissortofthing,thatâswhyyouthinkofthis,butlotsofotherpeopledonât
seeanon-votingfacultymemberfullyparticipatingasnon-votingfacultymember,
28
asfullparticipants,becausesomepeopleseevotingasnecessarytothedefinition
offullparticipation.Ithinkthatâserroneous,butotherpeopledonât,right?And
thatâspartofthedifferences,andwhywehavetokeephavingdiscussionslike
this.Whenyouâretalking,itsoundslikeyouârepresentingthisassaying,and
SenatorHessehassaidthis,thatvotingisaseparateissue.AndthatâswhyIcan
see,votingisaseparateissue,becausenon-votingfacultymemberscurrentlyfully
participateasnon-votingfacultymembers.Ifwewantedtochangethatshared
governancesystemwecould,butwedonâthaveto.Butotherpeopledonât
understanditthatway.SoIthinkthatâspartoftheissue,ishowpeoplethink
aboutfullparticipation.
Peters:Inlightofthosecomments,IwouldencouragepeopleâIcanâtoffer
amendments,Iâmnotamemberofthisbody.Youguysare.Youcanmake
decisions,soifyouwanttopasssomethingthataffirmsourcommitmentto
academicfreedomandsharedgovernance,byallmeans,makeamendments,and
lesspasssomething.
Gould:Yes.Yes.Swan:Wouldyoubeopentoreceivingwordingfrompeople,andwewould
handlethisfirstthingatournextmeetingwiththenewwordingthatcomesto
you?
Peters:Iwouldbewillingtodothat,sure.Swan:Sothatâsonepossibility,butwecouldchangethingstoonow,asyou
suggested.
29
Gould:Didyouwanttomakeamotion?Swan:Icanâttellwhatotherpeoplewant.Gould:Whatwouldyouguysliketodomovingforward?Campbell:Iwouldmovetotable,becauseIthinkthewordsmithingisnotgoingto
getdoneatthismeeting.
Swan:Wait,soshallwe,becauseProfessorPetershasworkedonthisforyears,
andtablingcanbeindefinite.Couldwemakeamotionsaying,âThiswillbethe
firstthingunderdocketedbusinessatournextmeeting,withthenewwording
thatâsbeenproposedthatheâsworkedwithandintegrated?Doesthatsound
okay?Ipreferthattotablingit.
Hesse:Canwegetagreementonnewwordingintwoweeks?Swan:Ihatetomakeitlonger.IâmthinkingofProfessorPetersandhowmany
yearsheâsactuallybeenworkingwiththis,butIdonâtknow.ProfessorPeters,can
wegetthisdoneintwoweeks,doyouthink?Reallyaweek--isnâtit?Becausewe
sendthingsoutaweekaheadforconsideration.
Wohlpart:Ijustalsowanttomakethepointreallyquicklythatyouallarenot
approvingthispolicy.Youdonâthavetheauthoritytoapprovepolicies.Thatâs
actuallythePresidentandtheEMT.Whatyouâredoingissendingthisforward
intothepolicyprocess,whereyouwillhavelotsofopportunitytohavemore
feedback.Thatwillhappeninthefallsemester.Youallknownowsomeofthe
conceptsthatareinhere,thatperhapsrubupagainstyourConstitution.You
30
shouldlookbackatyourConstitutioninthefall,andseeiftheyfallinline.That
willengendersomeconversationaboutnewlanguagethatyoucouldproposeas
thisgoesthroughthepolicyprocess.Youallarenotapprovingthis.Itâsnotdone
today.Youdonâthavetheauthoritytodothat.Youâresaying,âThisisgreatwork.
Letâsmoveitforwardintothepolicyprocess.âThatâsallyouâredoing.
Kidd:Iwouldsay,getitdonerightnow.Idonâtwanttowaituntilafterthis
semester,tobehonest.Wedonâtwanttogoforwardwithoutthispolicypassed
insomeformifwecanhelpit.Butifyouwanttodiscussacoupleofwords,not
majorchanges,butabitofthewording,Iwonâtmind.
Pike:Iâmgoingtoproposeasmallamendment.Isomewhatdisagreewithyou.I
havenoproblemwiththisparagraphasittalksaboutâstrivingtointegrate.â
Thatâsagreatthing.Thatâsagoal.Maybejustacoupleofwordstoclarify
protectiontothoseinthatparagraphaboutfullyparticipate,âtheprotectionis
extendedtoallthosewhoareparticipatinginsharedgovernance,âfortheir
participation.SomesmallclarificationthereâŠ
Gould:WhichsectionareyouâŠ?Pike:Theparagraphrightabovethat,âAsfurtherdefinedbelowâAllfaculty,
regardlessoftheirprotectionofacademicfreedomandshallbeprovidedthat
protectionastheyparticipateinsharedgovernance.âDoesthat?Itâsasmall
change.Doesthatclarifyatallthatitâsabouttheprotection,andwecandecide
laterabouttheextenttowhichwewanttolookattheFacultyConstitutionabout
participatingandvoting.
31
Funderburk:Listeningtothisontheside,itstrikesmethatyouârehungup
primarilyonthewordâfully.âSoifyouâretryingtomovethisforward,youcould
justdeletethewordâfully.ââShallbeprovidedtheopportunitytoparticipatein
sharedgovernance,âifyouâretryingtowordsmiththat.
Hakes:Ididnâtknowthiswasadocumentaboutprovidingopportunitiesfor
sharedgovernance.Itâssaying,âIfyouâreinvolvedinsharedgovernance,you
deservetheprotectionsofacademicfreedom.âThoseareseparatethings.One
hasbeenstated,veryproactiveastowhatweimaginethefuture,asopposedto
justsaying,âIfyouârecalledtoserveonacommittee,youshouldbeprotected.â
Thatâsadifferentthingbetweensayingyouhavefullrightstofullyparticipateand
beonâŠIdonâtknowwhereyouâregoingwiththat.Andthereâsnoreasontoeven
gothereifyouâreobjectivewastoprotectacademicfreedomofpeoplecalled
uponintouchyspotstoserveoncommittees,tobeabletosaywhattheyneedto
say,thenletâssaythat.Idonâtthinktakingthatwordâfullyâoutisevenclose.
Swan:Ithelps.Hakes:Weârenotprovidingopportunities,weâresaying,âIfyouârecalledupon,
youdeserveprotection.Isnâtthatwhatweoriginallythoughtweâredealingwith?
Unlessweâretryingtodosomethingelse,too.
Zeitz:Sowhatyouâresayingisthatifsomebodysays,âNo,âtheyârenotgoingto
bereceivinganykindof...
Hakes:Soiftheysayânoâaboutwhat?
32
Zeitz:Soinotherwords,iftheyârecalledtoserve,andtheysayâNo,Idonâtwant
toserve.âIsthatwhatweâretalkingaboutwithacademicfreedomhere?
Hakes:Iâmtalkingaboutwhentheyâreserving,theycansaywhattheywantto
say.
Zeitz:Isee.Hakes:IâmthinkingâŠIjustthinkabouthowcarefully...Thereasonthisbothersme
is,Ithinkofhowcarefullywehireassistantprofessors,andhowcarefullywe
placethemintosituationswheretheycouldhaveaproblem.AndthenIknow
howdifferentthatisfromwhenwehireadjuncts,andhowâŠYouseewhatIâm
saying?Icannothelpbutthinkthatthereisgreaterprotectioninasense,being
providedtosomeoneinstantly,thanthewaywetakecareofsomeonewhosean
assistantprofessorrank.Ifindthistobesooutofbalance,thatallIâmsayingis
thatifweâregoingtohavesomeoneserve,anditâspartoftheircontracttoserve
sometimes,thentheyshouldbegrantedacademicfreedom.ButIdonâtknowthat
weshouldgofurtherandsay,âthatpositionhasrightsâtoanythingyet.Idonât
knowwhyweâreevengoingthere.
Pike:Iâmgoingtotryandbringthistoaclose.IfIcouldmakeamotionthatwe
approvethispolicyaspresentedwithonechange,thatinsteadofâshallbe
providedtheopportunitytofully,âchangethattoâduringparticipationinshared
governance.âSoitsaysitbasicallyjustsaystheyâreentitledtoprotectionoftheir
academicfreedomduringparticipationinsharedgovernance,andshallbe
expectedtofulfilltheiracademicandethicalresponsibilities,âandjustmoveit
forwardfromhere.
33
Peters:MayIsuggestjustoneadditionalword?Pike:Sure.Peters:âentitledtoprotectionoftheiracademicfreedom,protectionduringtheir
participationinsharedgovernance,âtomakesurethatitâsclearthatacademic
freedomisnotonlyaboutsharedgovernance.
Pike:CanImakethatmotion?Gould:Youcanmakethemotion.CanIhaveasecond?SomovedbySenator
Zeitz.Okay,allinfavorâŠ
Swan:Nowwediscusstheamendment.Gould:Okay.Discussionontheamendment.Campbell:IhaveaquestionforSenatorHakes.IâmstilllookingatRomanNumeral
Two:SharedGovernance,andareyoubotheredbythat,âshallstrivetointegrate
allfacultyintothesharedgovernanceâ?
Hakes:Yes.Idonâtthinkthatthiswaswhatabout.Ithoughtthatthiswasabout
extendingacademicfreedomtothosethatarecalledupontoserve.Thatâswhatit
wasoriginallyproposed.Peoplearecalledupon,sometimescontractually,tobe
involvedinserviceobligationsthatarecontractuallyrequiredofthem,andthey
donâthaveacademicfreedomprotection.Thatâsthewayitwassoldtousfrom
DayOne.Thatâswhatweâredealingwith.Isee.Ifitâsinyourcontractthatyou
havetoparticipateonthese,thenyesâthatmakessense.Itdidnâthaveanything
todowithadvancingotherissues.Soyeah,Iwouldhaveaproblemwiththat,too.
34
ButIagreewiththefirststep.Again,youcanpassthiswithoutme.Iâmjustsaying
howthiswasapproachedatthebeginninghadnothingtodowithmaking
statementsaboutinclusion,anditallhadtodowithinfact--thatwastheexample
given--thatpeoplewhoareadjunctshavecontractsthatrequirethemtoservein
certainwaysthatcanbetouchy.Thatâsthewayitwasbroughttous,andthatâs
thewayitwasbroughttous.Thatâsthewayitwas.
Kidd:Justaquestion:IthoughtIcouldchangethewordingjusttoreflectthe
proposedamendment.CouldyoupleaserepeatthatScott(Peters)?
Peters:IthinkSenatorPikeâsamendmentwasâŠPike:âAprotectionwhileparticipatinginsharedgovernance.âWasnâtthatit?And
therestofthatwastakenout.
[FacultyChairKiddreworksproposaloncomputer]Pike:IthinkthatâswhatScottasked--wastoclarifyâŠâprotectionoftheiracademic
freedom,âIthinkthatwasthesuggestionfromScott(Peters)afterminewasto
addacomma.
Zeitz:Replacethecommawithanâand.â
Skaar:DidnâtScott(Peters)suggestreplacingâandâwithâduringshared
governanceâ?
Zeitz:Shouldnâtitbeâprotectionoftheiracademicfreedomwhileparticipatingin
sharedgovernanceâ?Sogetridofâandââprotectionâandâwhileâ.
35
Pike:Wellthenthatlimitsittoonlyprotectingitwhiletheyâreparticipatingin
sharedgovernance.
Campbell:Itâsavailableotherplaces.Wohlpart:Attheheadofyourpolicyyouârenowlimitingacademicfreedomto
justparticipationinsharedgovernance.
Cobb:Idohopethateverybodyknowsthattherearesomanychancesâdoyou
knowhowthepolicyreviewprocessworks?Jimmentionedit,butitâsjustlike
saying,âNowScott,youcanputthisforward.âThenitâsposted,andsomebody
canreallyfigureouttheperfectwordingforit,andallthosegobacktoScott.
Theygetsenttopolicyreview.
Peters:TheyâllgotoGretchen(Gould)becauseitâstheSenateâspolicyCobb:AndthenthereâsanotherchancefortheFacultySenatetoactuallyapprove
orsendforwardthepolicythathastobedoneattheUniversitylevel,but--I
agreewithTim(Kidd)thatitâsnicetogetitforward,buttherearesomany
chances,andIjustthoughtIshouldsaythat.
Gould:Thankyou.Scott(Peters)?Swan:Ihadaprocedurequestionwiththatthen.Socouldwepassthisasgeneral
ideasthatlotsofthefacultythinkmightbegood,butnotendorsingtheverbiage
asitâsgoingforwardtosenditthroughthisprocessthatyouâretalkingabout,that
thenwouldcomebacktotheFacultySenatetobeapprovedorrejectedafter
that?Sowecouldhavethatmotion,whichisquitedifferentthanmostpeople
36
havebeenthinkingaboutit,evenProfessorPeters.Butthatmightbeagoodway
tomoveforwardtoday.
Burnight:Thisissosad.[Laughter]Couldwejustforpurposesofgrammatical
sentence,couldwejusthaveacommaafterfreedom,andthenjustsay,
âincludingprotectionwhileparticipatinginsharedgovernanceâ?
Pike:Whileheâstypingthat,Ididhaveamotiononthefloortoapprovethis.I
wouldacceptafriendlyamendmenttochangethewordingtowhatyousuggest.
Iâllmakethemotionthatwearepassingthisalongintothepolicyapproval
processforfurtherreviewfartherdowntheroad.Andthen,Iwouldlookfora
second.
Gould:IthasbeenmovedbySenatorPikeandsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter
thatwearemovingtoputthisintothepolicyreviewprocess.
Swan:Andjustfortherecorder,whathashappenedisthatthepersonwho
sponsoredamotiontoamendhasremovedthat,andhehasreplaceditwiththis
motion.Isthatcleartotherecorderfortheminutes?Good.
Gould:Allinfavorofthemotionputforthonthefloor,pleasesay,âaye,âall
opposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.
Swan:VerygoodProfessorPeters.Thisreallyhasbeenmanyyearsofalotof
workwithalotofpeople,soIcommendyouandthankyou.
37
Gould:Sowehavefiveminutesleft,unlessthereisamotiontoextendthe
meetingforfifteenminutesorevenless,fiveminutes?
Swan:Wecanâtdowhatweneedtodoinfiveminutesobviously.
Pike:Letâsgetgoingandseehowfarweget.Dhanwada:Thereâsstilltwoitemslefttobediscussed.Gould:AssociateDeanFunderburk,sorry.[Laughter]Letâsstartonthis
conversation.
Funderburk:Haveyoubeenabletopulltheseup?Haveyouseentheselearning
outcomes?Theyâvebeenoutthere.Theverycondensedversionisthatweâve
recommendedthreeUniversity-levellearningoutcomesthatamounttocritical
thinking,communication,andprogramcontentknowledge.Thesehavebeen
endorsedwiththiswordingfromallCollegeSenates.Theyâvebeenreviewedby
theUniversityCurriculumCommittee,theCouncilofDepartmentHeads,theâŠ
Peters:theyâvebeenreviewedinwriting.Wegotsomefeedbackfromthe
UniversityWritingCommittee,andtheywerealsosentinwritingtothedeansand
theassistantcouncil.
Funderburk:thisisaboutasvettedasanythingIâveeverseencometotheSenate
thusfar.Withtheideabeingthatourcommitteewentafterthelowhanging
fruitâthethingswethoughteverybodywouldbeabletoagreeon,andeasily
relatetheirprogramâslearningoutcomestothese,becauseatsomepoint,each
38
departmentwillhavetosay,âHowareweaddressingthis?âandwhatdoesthis
meantous?SothatâswhatIhavetopresent.
Pike:Ijustwanttomakesure,becauseIrememberinCollegeFacultySenate,one
ofourdiscussionswas,theseareUniversity-level,soourdepartmentcouldfor
examplesay,âWewanttomorespecificallydefinewhatcriticalthinkingisforus
andimplementthatasanobjective.âSoagain,thesearejustgeneral,University-
level,University-wide,soâŠnothingâsgoingtoconstrainattheCollegeorSchool
level?
Funderburk:Westruggledtomakethewordingasbroadaspossiblesoevery
departmentcoulddowhatevertheyfeltwastherightthingintheirparticular
area.
Pike:Consistentwith,andpotentiallyinadditiontothese.Funderburk:Exactly.Wohlpart:Thatwillbethenextstep,istoaskdepartmentstoinfactfleshout
whatthismeans,asJeff(Funderburk)said,toyourprogram.
Swan:So,somethinglikeimagination,wouldthatgounderprogramcontentfor
certaindisciplineswhoverymuchengageinimagination,techniquesof
imaginationâdevelopingthat?
Funderburk:Icouldseethatasprogramcontentundersomeareas.Withmy
ActingArtDepartmentHeadon,itâsprobablyundervisualcommunicationwith
meatthemoment.
39
Peters:Or,letmejustthrowthisoutaswell,whichisthatprogramsarefreeto
decidethattheyhavetheirownoutcomesthattheywishtoassess,aboveand
beyondthethreethattheyârerequiredto--thethreethatalldepartmentswillbe
requiredto.
Swan:Canoneormoreofthoseadditionalonesbemoreimportantthananyor
allofthese?
Peters:Idonâtknowtheanswertothat.Wohlpart:Theyâreallthesame.Facultywillgettodecide.Everybodywilldo
criticalthinking,communicationandtheneachprogramwillsay,âHereâsthe
knowledgethatâsimportantinhistory,philosophy,elementaryed.Hereâsthe
skillsimportantinmydiscipline.â
Zeitz:Whatâsthereasonforcreatingthese?Withallthestandardsandeverything
thatwehavetocontendwith,andallofthemhaveallthisstuffinit,whyisit
doneonaUniversity-levelaswell?
Wohlpart:HigherLearningCommissionisexpectingthis.Itâsrequired.Funderburk:Becauseofourcondensedversion,thatwasthefirstslideinmy
PowerPoint.âHereâswhy.â
Pike:Sinceitâsabout4:59,canImakeamotiontoextendthemeetingforfive
minutes?
40
Gould:IhaveamotionbySenatorPikesecondedbySenatorSwanthatwe
extendthemeetingforfiveminutes.Allinfavor,pleasesayâaye,âallopposed,
ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.Wewillextendmeetingforfiveminutes.
Swan:Onelastquestion:Forexample,undercommunicationsattheend,âas
appropriatefortheirdisciplines,âsothatcouldbereallyquitesmall,isthat
correct?Eventhoughitâsoneofthethreemajorcompetencies,foradiscipline,
thatcouldbevery,verysmall?Theywouldhavetodosomething,butitcouldbe
small?
Funderburk:Iâmnotsayingthisistrue.Letâssaymyareawasceramics,maybeIâm
satisfiedwiththewritingrequiredattheLAClevel,somyfocusisonamuchmore
rigorousvisualcommunicationstandardthanperhapsyourareawouldbe.
Swan:Andtocontinuewiththatthoughwiththeceramics,oftenthatâsnotto
communicateanything.Itâstoexpresswithoutnecessarilycommunicationinthe
art,andsothatâswhyitcouldbeevensmallerforthem.Isthattrue?Soitâs
appropriatefortheirdiscipline?
Funderburk:Exactly.Thatâswhatweâretryingtogetat.Ithinkitâsclearthatoral
andwrittenarerequiredforeverysingleprogram.ThatâsintheLAC,soclearlywe
haveastandardthere.Wedonâthaveavisualcommunicationstandard,but
thatâsâŠ
Swan:SotheLACcanfulfillthisformanyprogramsthen?Wohlpart:Itcannot.
41
Peters:InresponsetoProvostWohlpart,Iwouldsaythatwasonepieceof
feedbackwegotfromCollegeSenates,wasthatpeoplewillneedmore
clarificationonwheretheLACfitsintothese,orhowtheLACfitsoverallinto
University-wideassessment.
Wohlpart:Oneofthethingsyoumustdowhenyougothroughaccreditationis
demonstratethatyourgraduatesmeetyouruniversitylearningoutcomes.And
manyofourstudentscometousfromotherinstitutions,perhapswithanAA.So
allyougetthemforisyourmajor.Sowhateveritisthatyoudoinyourmajor,
yourlearningoutcomeswillhavetomeettheUniversity-widelearningoutcomes.
Thatâsthereasonformakingthesebroad.YoucannotrelyontheliberalArts
Core,becauseyoudonâtknowthatyourstudentswilltaketheLiberalArtsCore.
NorwillyouknowwhattheyhadgottenintheirLiberalArtsCoreiftheyhavean
Associateâsdegree.Buthowyoudefinethem,inyourmajor,willbeuptoyou.
Skaar:Andthisisforgraduatestudentsandundergraduates?Wohlpart:Itwillbeforallprograms.Thatiscorrect.Allprograms.Zeitz:Willwehavetobedefininghowitâsbeingassessed?Wohlpart:Yes,whichweârealreadydoing--butyes.Thiswillgiveusaformatforthat.Zeitz:Thankyou.Peters:Weexpectedwhenwedrewtheseupthatmostprogramsthatare
alreadydoingassessmentwillprobablybeabletopointtospecificoutcomesthat
theyâvealreadyidentifiedandfitthemwithinthese,andthentheymayhave
42
somebeyondtheseaswell.Butwedidnotanticipate,infactwedesignedthis
intentionallyasmuchaswecould,sothatifprogramswerealreadydoing
assessment,theywouldbeabletoseewhattheyâredoingintherequirements.
Zeitz:Thankyou.
Swan:SoalotofprogramsintegratetheLACintotheirprogramsalreadyand
weârenowsayingthatâsnotpossible?Wecanâtdothat?
Wohlpart:Thatiscorrect.Swan:SowhatistheLACfornow,forourgraduates?Wohlpart:Thewaythatlearningshouldbedoneisdevelopmentally.TheLiberal
ArtsCorewillalsohavetotakethisonasaprogram,andsay,âOurlearning
outcomesfortheLiberalArtsCore,isX,Y,andZ,âandwillhavetoincludecritical
thinkingandcommunication,andthenotherthingsthatthefacultywilldecide,
andpresumablythatwillcreateafoundationalsetofknowledgethatyouwill
thenbuildoninyourmajors.
Swan:YousaidwecanâtusetheLACanymore.Wohlpart:YoucannotusethelearningoutcomesthataredevelopedintheLACin
yourmajors.Youwillhavetoassesscriticalthinking,communication,and
whateverprogramknowledgeandskillsyousay,atwhateverlevel.
Gould:Seeingthatitis5:03,doesanybodywanttoputamotionforthwhetheror
nottotableit,tovoteonit,continuediscussionatthenextmeeting?
43
Zeitz:Imovewevoteonit.Gould:DoIhaveasecond?MovedbySenatorZeitzandsecondedbySenator
BurnighttoapprovetheUniversity-wideStudentLearningOutcomes.Allinfavor,
pleasesayâaye,âallopposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.CanIhavea
motiontoadjourn?CanIhaveamotiontoextendfortheB.A./B.Sthirty-twohour
requirement?ItâsbeenmovedbySenatorBurnighttoextendthemeetingten
minutesandsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter.Allinfavor,pleasesayâaye,â
opposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotionpasses.Ira,(Simet)pleasecomeup.
Simet:Thanksforaddingsometimetogettothisone.Aswementionedatthe
lastmeeting,weâvediscoveredthereâsabigdifferencebetweendoublemajors
anddoubledegreesintermsofrequirementsimposedbytheUniversity,andthat
differenceisa32-houradditionifyouwerepursuingadoubledegree,which
wouldbeintheexamplethatweweremostawareof,aBachelorofArtsanda
BachelorofScience.Wetriedtodoalittleresearchtoseewhatthejustification
wasfortheadditional32hours.Itgoesbackalongway,andwecouldnâtfindany
ofourowndocumentsthatspoketothat.Soweâredecidingitmightbethe
residueofaresidencyrequirement,whichwetypicallyhaveforaseconddegree,
whenstudentscomebackhavingcompletedone.Or,theotherpossibilityisthat
thefacultyfeltatsometimethat32hourswastheminimumcontentneededfor
whatyouwouldcalladegree.Whicheverofthoseitis,welookedtosomeother
universitiesforsomeguidanceaboutthis.IowaStatehasthesamerequirement
aswedoessentially,buttheUniversityofIowarequiresnoadditionalhours.So
youcansee,therearetwoextremes.Andlookingatthetenpeerinstitutionsas
44
indicatedbytheRegents,therearefourorfivewhohaverequirementssimilarto
ours.Oneortwothathavenorequirementwhatsoever,andoneortwothat
donâtevengrantdoubledegrees--itdoesnâtevenappearintheircatalog,which
wetookaslicensetogoaheadandmakeaproposalforwhatwethoughtwas
right,andwhatwethingweshoulddoistoeliminatethe32additionalhoursfor
peopledoingconcurrentdoubledegree.Thisdoesnâtapplytopeoplewhoare
goingtofinishadegree,andthenayearortwolaterdecidetheyâdlikeanother
degree,andtheywouldcomebackandharvestsomeextrahourstheyhadleft
overandusethose.Ifthatcasehappens,thenwhatâsalreadyinthebooksis
separate,andtheyâllhavetogoforaseconddegreecompletelyindependently.
Weâretalkingaboutstudentswhoaretryingtogetbothdegreesatthesametime
Colin(Weeks)andIhavebeenworkingonthis.Evenatarandomlookâwedidnât
evenhavetohuntveryhard,wefoundmanyexampleswhereyoucouldfinisha
BachelorofArtsandaBachelorofScience,thepairwewerelookingat,
completelyunderneaththeumbrellaofthe126hoursthatarerequiredforthe
B.S.,forexample.Sothose32hourswouldnâtevencontributetoeitherofthe
degreesyouâdbeenworkingon.Sowethoughtthatkindofdefeatedthepurpose
of32extrahoursasacontentofadegree,becausethecontentofthedegreeis
alreadythere.Andcertainlyanybodydoingconcurrentdegreeshasmetthe
residencyrequirement,sowethoughtthe32hourslookedlikeasurplus
requirementthatweshouldnâtimposeanymore,andthatâswhywebroughtthis
proposaltoyou,toseehowyoufeelabouteliminatingthe32-hour,Iliketocallit
thesurcharge--forstudentstryingtodosomethingalittlemoreambitiousand
effectivelybeingpunishedforit.
45
Gould:AndyouhavevettedthiswiththeUndergraduateCurriculumCommittee
andtheRegistrarâsOffice?
Simet:Yes.FromtheRegistrarâsOffice,DianeWallaceisheretosupportthat,and
weâvealsogonearoundtoalltheCollegiateSenates.Weheardnoobjections.In
fact,weheardmurmursofsupport.Theonlyobjectionsweheardwerekindof
logisticalobjectionstothestructuredproposalactually,tomakesurethatallof
thepeerinstitutionswererepresented,thingslikethat.Butmostpeoplethought
itwasagoodidea.
Swan:Soeliminatingthesehours,therequirements--sowhatâsthemore
ambitiousthingthatthestudentisdoingingettingthetwodegrees?Iunderstand
thatwiththehourswehave,itâsveryambitious.Butnow,whatâsthemore
ambitiousthing?
Simet:WeseeâIthinkmostpeopleseeaBachelorofScienceforexample,asa
morerigorousdegreethanaBachelorofArts.Certainlyinourdepartment,there
areadditionalcourses.Itâslongerbysixhours.Thereareallkindsofarguments
thattheB.S.isamorerigorousdegree,andyetunderthetermsofthis,youcan
gettwoB.S.âsmoreeasilythanaB.S.andaB.A.Wethinkthatâsbackwards.So
thatwasoneofthejustifications.
Swan:SoyourB.S.studentwillnowbeabletoalsogetaB.A.fordoingnothing
else?Justputtingittogether?
46
Simet:Well,iftheyâvecompletedtherequirementsforthatB.A.ânowtheycanât
doitinourdepartment.TheoneweseemostoftenisaB.S.inBiologyandBAin
Chemistry.Sotheyhavetocompletetherequirementsforboth.Theydonâtget
offthehookforthat.Butwithdoublecountingandwithoverlapofcourses,itâs
nowpossibletofinishapairofdegreesandstillbewithinthe126hours.Sowe
donâtseethatthereâsajustificationfor32additionalhours,whichwouldnâteven
beinthosetwodisciplines.
Swan:RightnowyousaiditâseasiertogettwoB.S.âsortwoB.A.âsandyouârejust
tryingtoâŠIsee.
Zeitz:WhatyouâresayingisthatyouâredoubledippingontheLACs?Onthe
LiberalArtsCourses?
Simet:Moststudentsalreadydothatiftheyâredoingadoublemajororadouble
degree.This32-hoursisadditionaltoeverythingthatâsalreadyproscribedto
them--theLACandalltherequirementsfortheirtwodegrees.Theycanstilldo
thatinunder126hours.Sowedonâtseeajustificationforanother32.
Zeitz:Iagreewithyou.IjustwanttomakesureIunderstand.Campbell:Ira,didyoulookbacktothetimewhenwefirstapprovedtheB.S.
degreetoseeiftherewasanythingfromthattimewhichreferredtowhyitwas
putin?
Simet:AllofthedocumentsthatIcouldfindabouttheB.S.werestrictlyfocused
ontheB.S.anddidnâtevenaddressthepossibilityofthistypeofdoubledegree.I
47
thinkthenotionatthetimewasthatstudentswouldsubstituteaB.S.foraB.A.,
sotheycouldaccessthemorerigorouscurriculum,andsothereâsnotalkabout
thisatall.
Campbell:ButthatwasinthecatalogimmediatelyaftertheB.S.wasapproved?Simet:Thewordingofthisdidnotappearinthecatalogforawhile,ormaybe
Diane(Wallace)cancorrectmeonthat.Theformalwordingdidnâtshowupuntil
recently.Itwasapolicy,butitwasnâtformalizeduntilrecently,whenanumberof
studentswhowereseekingtodoitbegantogrow.ThenâŠ
Dhanwada:Ijustwanttosaythatthisisactuallyimpactingalotofstudents,and
itâsprohibitingthemfromcompleting,becausetheyarealmostdone,ortheyare
done,andbecausetheyhavetodotheadditional32hourstogetanotherdegree
whichisgoodforthemastheymoveforward,theyarenowchoosingnotto,
becauseitâsgoingtotakethemanextrayear.Thisisinfavorofstudentsaswell.
Studentsareforegoinganentiredegreebecauseweâreaskingthemtodo32
additionalcredits.
Walter:Imovethatweputtheproposaltoavoteimmediately.Gould:IthasbeenmovedbyVice-ChairWalter,andsecondedbySenatorPike
thatwevoteontheproposaltoeliminatetheadditional32-hourcredit
requirementforundergraduatesseekingaconcurrentundergraduatedouble
degree.Allinfavor,pleasesayâaye,âallopposed,ânay,âabstain,âaye.âMotion
passes.MayIhaveamotiontoadjourn?SomovedbySenatorBurnight.