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RegularMeeting#1791UNIFacultySenate

April10,2017(3:30-5:07p.m.)ScholarSpace(LIB301),RodLibrary

SUMMARYMINUTES

1.PressIdentification:Nomembersofthepresswerepresent.

2.CourtesyAnnouncements PresidentNookcommentedonthreeareasandansweredSenator’squestions.Topicsincluded(a)TheUniversitybudget(b)OngoingworktofillthevacancyintheMissouriValleyConference’sleftbyWichitaState,and(c)ChangestotheCommencementceremony.(Seepages3-9) ProvostWohlpartsaidheisimpressedby“thedepth,thethoughtfulness,andthephilosophicalnatureofwhat’sbeingengaged”inthecreationoftheFacultyHandbook. FacultyChairKiddandFacultySenateChairGouldhadnocomments3.MinutesforApproval:March,2017(O’Kane/Fenech)Passed.4.ConsiderationofCalendarItemsforDocketing1327 MotiontodocketatheadoforderandmovetoExecutiveSessionforthe purposeofdiscussionofRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellence (McNeal/Walter) https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/regents-award-faculty-excellence-1

1328ConsultativeSessionwithMartyMark,ChiefInformationOfficer,regarding emailaccountcreationanddeactivationparameters(Tobedocketedfor April24,2017Senatemeeting)(Pike/Zeitz)https://senate.uni.edu/current- year/current-and-pending-business/consultative-session-marty-mark-chief-information-0

1329 EmeritusRequestforAlanSchmitz,Music(Campbell/Cooley) https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-alan-schmitz-music

5.ConsiderationofDocketedItems

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1327/1217?MotiontodocketatheadoforderandmovetoExecutiveSessionfor thepurposeofdiscussionofRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellence (McNeal/Walter)Motionpassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/regents-award-faculty-excellence-11320/1211EmeritusRequestforMaryElizabethBoes,SocialWork,andFred Abraham,Economics(Hakes/Burnight)Motionpassed. https://uni.edu/senate/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-mary- elizabeth-boes-social-work-and-fred

1322/1212EmeritusRequestforHansIsakson,Economics;andPatriciaGross, FamilyServices.(Hakes/Walter)Motionpassed. https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/emeritus-request-hans- isakson-economics-and-patricia-gross

1312/1213ProposaltorevisePolicy6.10,newlytitledAcademicFreedom, SharedGovernanceandAcademicResponsibility(previouslyreferred totheEPC)(Pike/Walter)MotiontomoveintothePolicyReview Process.MotionPassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending- business/proposal-revise-policy-610-newly-titled-academic-freedom

1324/1214UniversityLevelStudentLearningOutcomesforConsideration (Zeitz/Burnight)MotionPassed.https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current- and-pending-business/university-level-student-learning-outcomes-consideration

1325/1215Proposal:Eliminationoftheadditionalthirty-twocredithour requirementforUNIstudentsseekingaconcurrentundergraduate doubledegree(twodifferentdegrees,suchasaB.S.andaB.A.ora B.A.andaB.Music)(Walter/Pike)MotionPassed. https://senate.uni.edu/current-year/current-and-pending-business/proposal-elimination- additional-thirty-two-credit-hour

**Motiontoextendsessionby5minutes(Pike/Swan)**Motiontoextendsessionby10minutes(Burnight/Walter)6.Adjournment:(Burnight)5:12p.m.

NEXTMEETING:

Monday,3:30p.m.April24,2017:RodLibrary,ScholarSpace(LIB301)

Fulltranscriptof48pageswith0addendumfollows

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FULLTRANSCRIPToftheUNIFacultySenateMeeting#1791April10,2017(3:30–5:12p.m.)

AllPresent:SenatorAnnBradfield,JohnBurnight,RussCampbell,Seong-inChoi,LouFenech,ChairGretchenGould,DavidHakes,TomHesse,BillKoch,RamonaMcNeal,SteveO’Kane,AmyPetersen,JoelPike,JeremySchraffenberger,NicoleSkaar,GloriaStafford,LeighZeitz,SenateSecretaryJesseSwan,Vice-ChairMichaelWalter.Also:PresidentNook,AssociateProvostsNancyCobbandKavitaDhanwada,ProvostJimWohlpart,FacultyChairTimKidd.NotPresent:NISGRepresentativeTristanBernhard.Guests:JeffFunderburk,ScottPeters,PaulShand,IraSimet,DianeWallace,ColinWeeks.Gould:GoodafternoononthisveryhotMondayintheScholarSpace.Iwantto

makeacallforpressidentification.Isanybodyherefromthepress?Seeingno

press,IwillmoveontocommentsfromPresidentNook.

Nook:Thankyou.Gretchen(Gould)andItalkedalittlebit,andItalkedwithTim

(Kidd)aswell,aboutthepossibilityofmeattendingasregularlyasIcan,justto

makeafewcomment,butnotnecessarilytotakeuptimeonyourmeetings,but

moreimportantly,togiveyouanopportunitytoaskmequestionsifyou’vegot

them,andpickanitemortwotohelpyouunderstandwherethingsaregoingin

theUniversityandthenbeabletoansweryourquestions.IknowJim(Wohlpart)

doesagreatjobatthat,butsometimesthere’sthingsinareasoutsideof

AcademicAffairs,andit’salwaysnicetoknowthatyou’vegotaccesstothe

Presidenttoatleastaskhimquestionsifthingsaregoinginawaythatyoudon’t

understand.

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SoIwanttotalkaboutreallyjustacoupleofthingstoday.Weareinthemiddleof

puttingtogetherbudgetsfor2018,butwedon’tknowtargetsyetfromtheState.

WhatwehaveistheGovernor’sbudget,andweknowthatitisnotgoingtobe

whatcomesouttheotherend.WhatweknowintheGovernor’sbudgetisthat

the$2.5millionthatwehadtogivethembackthisyearisgonefornextyear—is

what’sisinhisbudget,plusanotherhalfmillion--$577,000.Sowe’dbelookingat

athreemillion-dollaradjustmentthere.Actually,you’vegottokeepthatin

perspectiveofa$175,000,000budget,soit’sacoupleofpercent.Thelegislature,

theHouseinparticular,takesthatandtheGovernorhastosendthemone,and

theyroutinelyignoreit,andputtheirowntogether.Rightnow,what’scomingout

isthey’resaying,“Hedidn’tmakebigenoughcutstotheentireState,”andthere’s

another$20milliontheywanttoputintoplay,ascomingoutofthepossible

expenses.Buttheyhavenotmadeanycommentsyetaboutwhereit’sgoingto

comefrom.There’salotmorenoiseaboutK-12,aboutprivateHigherEd,the

IowaTuitionGrants;otherprogramsanddepartmentsandthings.Sorightnow,

wedon’tknow.We’rehopingthosetargetsforeachoftheRegentialinstitutions

comeoutinthenextcoupleofdays;certainlybytheendofthisweek,sothatwe

canstarttoworkonreallyputtingourbudgetstogether.There’ssomeexpenses

toothatwereallyneedtokindofwatch:thingsaroundhealthcarecosts;those

sortsofthings,thatallofthoseincreasesinessence,ifwecouldkeepthoseall

around,we’vegottopaythem.Thoseendupbeingcutstoourbudgetaswell.

We’vegottofindthemoneytopaythoseaswell.Soallofthosecouldimpact

this.It’salittletooearlytoputanumberonthisthing.Ican’tbelievewe’regoing

tobeabletomoveforwardwiththebudgetthatwethoughtwewouldbemoving

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forwardwith.Wewillhavesomecutstoit.Whatwedon’tknowishowbigitisat

thispoint.Idon’tevenwanttospeculateonwhatitmightbe,becausewejust

don’tknowenoughatthispoint.TheVicePresidentshavebeenworkingwith

peopleonsortofbringingsomescenariostogether,andstartinginonthat

process,sothatwhenwegetanumberwecanmovealittlebitmorerapidly.

LetmechangethesubjecttoAthletics.EverybodyshouldhaveheardthatWichita

Statehasmovedoutofourconference.Thattakesusdowntonineteams.The

MissouriValleyConferenceisreallyputtogetheraroundmen’sbasketball

becauseoftherevenuethatgeneratesforus.Wegetabout$1,000,000fromthe

MissouriValley,viatheNCAAandothersforourparticipationintheconference.

Wegetthatmoneybecausetheconferenceputsmen’sbasketballteamsintothe

NCAAtournament.That’sadriver,right?Themoregameswewin--meaningany

memberoftheconference,thebetteroffweare.Right?Sowhatwehavestarted

todo,asthepresidentsoftheMissouriValley,istostarttolookatwhatour

optionsaretoinviteotherstojointheMissouriValleyConference.We’renotfar

enoughalongthereyettosaytoomuch,andyouwanttosortofkeepitquiet.

Right?Thisislikewhenyou’reintheeighthgrade,andyou’regoingtoask

somebodyoutforadate.Youdon’ttellanybodyuntilyoufindoutiftheysay‘yes’

ornot.[Laughter]It’shardenough.Sowe’rekindofinthatwe’veidentifiedsome

people.We’llbetalkingwiththem,andwehopetohaveanewpartnerbythe

endofthesummer;probablyalotearlierthanthat.Therearealotofdetailsthat

needtobeworkedoutwiththatotherschool,andalotofthingsthatneedtobe

thoughtthroughasweselectwhowegooutandtalkto.Soagain,we’llkeepyou

postedbutwereallydon’tatthistimehaveanythingmorethanwearevery

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seriousaboutthis.It’sabigdealbecauseoftherevenuesthataregeneratedand

comebacktotheUniversity.OurAthleticsProgramofcourseisnotrevenue-

positive,butbeinginthisconferencewithasmanyteams—twoteamstypically,

gettingintotheNCAAtournament,andtherevenuesthatthatgenerates,we’rein

alotbettershapethanwewereatmostDivisionIIschoolsandmostDivisionI

Conferencesthataren’tinthatsortofpower.

We’regoingtoprobablymakesomesmallchangestoCommencement,but

nothingthatwillimpactmostofyou.I’veheardthattherearealargenumberof

peopleonthestage,anditgetskindofcrowded,sowhatIthinkofasthe

‘platformparty.’We’lltrytopullthatbackalittlebittopeoplethatreallyneedto

beupthere.TheothersIstillwanttoattend,andbeseatedandgownedand

robedup,andthosesortsofthings,butmakesurethatwe’renottoocongested

onthestage.Itmakesitalittleeasierforthestudentstogetacrossthestageand

theparentstoseethemandthosesortsofthings.Letmestopthere.I’dbehappy

toansweranyquestionswithinthetimethatyouwanttogive.

Gould:AnyquestionsforPresidentNook?Hakes:Dowealreadyhaveatemporaryhiringfreezefornextyear?What’sour

situationonthat?Arewejustonhold?

Wohlpart:Wedon’t,David(Hakes),soyouallhopefullyknowthis:within

AcademicAffairs,the$2.5milliondollarcutthatwehadtotakethisyear,$1.923

wasinAcademicAffairs,wetookthatcentrally,outoftheAcademicAffairs

Provost’sOffice.WhatI’veaskedthedeanstodoistoworkwiththedepartment

headsandwiththeCollegeSenatestogeneratealistofprioritizedfacultylines

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forFall‘18.Wehaven’tstoppedthehiresthatarecomingfortheFallof’17,and

we’restillintheprocessofmakingthosehires.Tocreatethatprioritizedlist

whichwewillthenvetattheDean’sCouncil.WewillprobablywaituntilAugust

orSeptemberwhenweknowwhatourenrollmentis,whichisalargepartofour

revenue,tobeabletodecidewhatofthoselineswouldgoforwardforFallof’18.

TheotherthingthathappenshereatUNI,perhapsit’scommonelsewhere--isthat

wefindoutsometimesinAugustthatpeoplearegoingtoretireinthefallorwill

retireattheendofthatyear,sothere’salotofmovementinandout,sowehave

totrackthataswell.Sowehavenotfrozenhiring,we’regoingtobeverystrategic

inwhatwedowithourhiringprocesses.

Nook:Wehaven’tfrozenthemintheotherunitseither.Ibelieveyouneedto

makestrategiccuts,ifyoudoneedtomakecutsininvestments—youneedtodo

thatstrategically,andnotjustbecauseapositionisopen.Right?Oneofmysort

offundamentalwaysoflookingatbudgetingisifyou’reinthatrealmwhereyou

havetomakesomereductions,youdon’thavethemoneytoinvestinthe

Universitythatyou’dliketohaveorusedtohave,thenyoudoeverythingyoucan

tolimittheimpactonstudents.Youhavethemostpositiveoutcome.Youinvest

thebestpossible.Andifyoureallybelievethat,andyoulookattwoprogramsand

oneisgrowing,gettingmorestudentsout,moremajors,hasgrowingSCH

(SemesterCreditHours),hasgrowingpublications--everythingaboutitlooksgreat

andtheyhappentohavearetirement,andinanotherprogram,allthosethings

aremovingintheotherdirection,doyoureallytakethatposition?Isthatwhat

youwanttodobecausethenyou’regoingtohurtmorestudentsthantakingone

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fromaprogramthat’snot.Thatgetshard.Butthatisn’tjustanacademicthing.

That’sacrosstheboard.

Youlookatwhereyourmoneyisgoingtogetyouthebestreturn--forour

students,inthiscase.AndsoIdon’tliketomakeopportunistic,andIalsodon’t

liketomakeacross-the-board,forexactlythesamereason.Ithinkacross-the-

boardcutsareanadministrator’seasywayout.Youdon’thavetojustifyit.

Everybodytakesthesamething.

Zeitz:Insomecases,whereyoudon’thaveacriticalmassoffacultythough,you

endupwhereyou’reteachingandyou’reworkinganddoingalltheotherservice

worksoyoudon’tgetyourpublicationsdone.Soinsomecases,Ithinkthatneeds

tobeconsidered.

Nook:Italwaysis.Ithastobeaholisticlookatthings.Butifyoudon’thavea

criticalmasstoevenbeteachingtheclassesandapositioncomesopen,then

that’saneed.

Zeitz:Thankyou.Gould:Thankyou,PresidentNook.Nook:Youbet.Thankyou.Cooley:Asyouweretalkingaboutthesestrategicchoices,dotuitionincreases

comeintothestrategyoftheequation?Canyouspeaktothatatall?

Nook:Yes,weknowthatwe’vegota2%tuitionincreasealreadyapproved.I

wouldnotatallbesurprisedthattheRegentsconsiderexpandingthat;makingit

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evenbigger.It’smyfeeling,we’vegotacurrentRegentpresidentwhoseterm

endsinlessthan30days,whosebeenclearabouttryingtokeeptuitionincreases

steady,andnotsomethingthat’sgoingtoshockstudents,right?Sokeepsmall

steps;butconstantsmallstepsyearafteryearafteryear,insteadofflattening

thingsoutandthenhavetonail‘emforayear,right,assomepeoplewouldsay.

Ithinkthat’sprobablyagoodplan.It’ssafer.Yougofiveyearswithoutatuition

increase,yougetawholebunchofpeoplethatgetitprettyeasy,andthenyou

slamawholebunchofotherstudentswitha10%.I’mnotexpectingthattheywill

comeinandsay“Let’sfillthehole,theentirehole,”becausetheentireholecould

meandoublingthat2%ormore,andI’mnotholdingmybreaththatthisgroupof

Regentswoulddothat.ButIalsodoexpectthattheywillhaveaveryserious...At

theAprilBoardofRegentsmeetingwhichisnextweek,itcouldbediscussed.It

can’tbeapproved.Itactuallytakestwomeetingstoactuallygetatuitionincrease

approved.

Gould:Thankyou,PresidentNook.Nook:Thankyou.Next,commentsfromProvostWohlpart.Wohlpart:IthinkI’mgood.Everything’scovered,unlessthere’sanyquestions,

anythingelsethatyoufolksarethinkingabout.I’vebeenreviewingdraftsofthe

FacultyHandbookpiecesthathavebeencoming,andthey’rejustawesome.I’m

justreally,reallyimpressedandpleasedwiththedepth,thethoughtfulness,the

philosophicalnatureofwhat’sbeingengaged,andIdidn’texpectthatbecauseit’s

suchashorttimeframeandsuchcomplicatedissues.Ithinkeverybodywillbe

extremelyhappy.That’smysense.

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Gould:Thankyou.CommentsfromFacultyChairKidd?Kidd:No.I’djustliketoechothatwehaveagoodworkingrelationshipwiththe

FacultyHandbook,soIthinkthingsaregoingwell.That’saboutitthough.

Gould:Thankyou.Ihavenocommentssinceeverybodyelsehascovered

practicallyeverything.So,movingon,weneedtoapprovetheminutesfromthe

March27thSenatemeeting.CanIhaveamotiontoapprove?Somovedby

SenatorO’Kane,secondedbySenatorFenech.Allinfavorofapprovingthe

minutesfromtheMarch27thmeeting,pleasesay“aye,”opposed,“nay,”abstain,

“aye.”Motionpasses.MovingontoConsiderationofCalendarItemsfor

Docketing.AsFacultyChairKiddmentionedatthelastmeeting,wewouldtakeup

theRegentsAwardforFacultyExcellenceattoday’smeeting,sincetheawardsare

tobeissuedverysoon.SowewillgointoExecutiveSessionforaveryshorttime

atthebeginning,somayIhaveamotiontodockettheRegent’sAwardforFaculty

ExcellencegoingintoExecutiveSession?SomovedbySenatorMcNeal,seconded

byVice-ChairWalter.AllinfavorofgoingintoExecutiveSessionfortheRegents

AwardforFacultyExcellenceatthebeginningofthedocket,pleasesay,“aye,”all

opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.NextupwehaveaConsultative

SessionwithMartyMarkforApril24th.Shewantstocomeandtalktothefaculty

abouttheemailaccountandsomeissuesandproblemsthatthey’vehadanda

proposalformovingforward.SocanIhaveamotiontodocketthat?Somovedby

SenatorPike,secondedbySenatorZeitz.Allinfavorofdocketingtheconsultative

sessionwithMartyMark,pleasesay,“aye,”opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”

Campbell:We’redocketingitforaparticulardate,thatshouldbenoted?

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Gould:Yes.Yes.ShouldIrephrasethemotion?[No]

Campbell:It’sontheagenda.

Gould:Abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.Andthelastthingtobeconsideredfor

docketingistheEmeritusRequestfromAlanSchmitzintheMusicDepartment.So

movedbySenatorCampbell,secondedbySenatorCooley.Allinfavorof

docketingtheemeritusrequestforAlanSchmitzinMusic,pleasesay,“aye,”

opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.Okay,nowweareatthe

ConsiderationofDocketedItems,sowewillbegoingintoexecutivesessionfor

ten,maybefifteenminutesorless.

Swan:ImovethatweaccepttheslateofcandidatesfortheRegentsAward

presentedbyFacultyChairKidd.

Gould:SenatorBurnightseconded.Allinfavorofapprovingtheslateof

candidatesfortheRegentsFacultyAwardforExcellence,pleasesay,“aye,”

opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Themotionpasses.Sonextupwehavean

emeritusrequestforMaryElizabethBoesfromSocialWorkandFredAbraham

fromEconomics.Doesanybodyhaveanycomments?

Hakes:IwillspeakonbehalfofFred[Abraham]briefly—butIshouldspeaklonger

sincehe’sbeenherefor44years.Idon’tknowhowmanypeopleknowFred.

Fred’sheadofthedepartmentandhasbeenfor27years,andhe’sretiringin

August.EverymemberofthedepartmentwashiredbyFredexceptone,andIwas

hisfirstofficialhireafterhebecameactualhead,frombeinginterimhead.So,

he’sactuallyconstructedtheentireEconomicsDepartmentassuch.He’san

excellentteacher.I’mveryfortunatetohavealwayshadadepartmentchairthat

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wasanexcellentteacher,becauseIcan’timaginehowawkwardthatwouldbeif

yoursupervisingfirstlevelwasaverypoorteacher.He’sbuiltthedepartment

basedonthat.He’sanexcellentteacher.He’shad14,000studentsofhisown,

teachinglargeclassesineconomics,andbuiltthedepartmentfromessentially

veryfewmajorstocruisingat150majorsandequalormoreminors,andIthink

he’sproudestofthefactthatwhenhetookover,weonlyhadoneendowed

scholarship,andnowwehaveten,andtheendowedscholarshipsfromstudents.

Sowehavenurturedsomeveryproductivestudentswho’vegoneoutandhad

excellentcareers,andhavegivenbacktotheUniversityandhavesizable

endowedscholarships--allcreatedfrompaststudents.Itallfitstogetherwithhis

concernforteaching,andthepeoplethathehiredandhimselfkeepingavery

tightrelationshipwithallofourpastgraduates,placingthemwell,oraidingtheir

placementingraduateschoolsandlawschoolandsoon.Andthentakingthem

outtolunchwhenthey’rebackintown,becausethat’saverydangerousthing

whenFredasksyououtforlunch,becauseyouknowit’sgoingtocostyou.That’s

notafreelunch,aswesay.[Laughter]Ithinkthathe’shadaveryhonorable

careerhere,andhehiredme,andI’mpleasedwithhismanagementofthe

department.AndIcertainlyhopethatwegethislineback.

Wohlpart:Ibelieveyou’rehiring.Hakes:Wellweare,butnoonewantstofollowFred(Abraham).Gould:Thankyou,SenatorHakes.Anyothercomments?Campbell:Justatechnicalnote:Isn’thealsoheadofFinanceatthispointintime?Hakes:You’reright,atthistimeheisalsoheadofFinance;foraboutthelastfour

years,soheisadualdepartmenthead.Thetwodepartmentsarestill

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independent.TheyeachhavetheirownPAC,[ProfessionalAssessment

Committee]andsohegoestodoublemeetingsandhandlesthepromotions,and

inasensetheyhavetheirowndecision-makingbodies,andthenheistheheadof

bothdepartments.Butthat’safairlyrecentphenomenon—thelastfouryears,I

believe.Soinfact,sincehetookonthatrole,histeachingloadhasbeendropped,

whichisashame.Itisalwaysadebate:Doyouwasteyourbestteacherasan

administrator(nooffense)[Laughter]youpullthemoutoftheclassroom,but

we’realsooffendedwhenwehaveaverypoorteachersupervisingotherpeople

whoareexcellentteachers.Soitisalwaysadilemma.There’snoanswertothat

question.Infact,he’sanexcellentteacherwhohascontinuedtoteachlarge

sectionsandbeheavilyinvolveduntilthelastmaybetwoorthreeyears,andwe

misshimintheclassroom.Hecouldteachforever.We’dinvitehimback,butI

don’tthinkthat’sgoingtohappen,butwecertainlywould.Yes,thankyoufor

bringingthatup.

Gould:AnyothercommentsoneitherDr.AbrahamorDr.Boes?Seeingnone,

mayIhaveamotiontograntemeritusstatustoMaryElizabethBoesfromSocial

WorkandFredAbrahamfromEconomics?MovedbySenatorHakes,secondby

SenatorBurnight.Allinfavor,pleasesay,“aye,”opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”

Motionpasses.Nextupisanothersetofemeritusrequests.ThisisforHans

IsaksonfromEconomicsandPatriciaGrossfromFamilyServices.Doesanybody

wanttosayanythingabouteitherofthesetwoprofessors?

Hakes:Hans(Isakson)isretiringaswellandconnectstotheFinanceand

EconomicsDepartment.ManyofyouknowHans.He’sprobablymostnotedfor

hisserviceonthiscampus.He’sbeenpastChairoftheSenate,andhe’spast

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presidentofUnitedFaculty.Heactuallywasbroughthereinthefinance

departmentasheadofrealestate.Thereweresomechangesmadeinrealestate.

HisPh.D.isinEconomics.Whenthattookplace,IthinkwemadeatradeforHans

(Isakson)withtwoprofessorstobenamedlaterinafuturedraftchoiceor

something.Itwasactuallyabetterfitinourdepartment,andit’sworkedoutvery

nicely,forbothHansandfortheEconDepartment.Hansisalsoinvolvedinagreat

dealofexternalconsulting,sohe’sverynicetohavearound,andwehopewecan

stillhavecontactwithHansandkeephislinealso.[Laughter]

Gould:Ihopeyoumadenoteofthat.Thankyou.Doesanybodyelsewishtospeak

onbehalfofeitheroftheseemerituscandidates?Seeingnooneelsewishesto

speak,IwillaskforamotiontoapprovetheemeritusstatusforHansIsakson

fromEconomicsandPatriciaGrossfromFamilyServices.MovedbySenator

Hakes:DidyouraiseyourhandMichael(Walter)?

Walter:Yes.

Gould:AndsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter.Allinfavorofgrantingemeritus

statustoHansIsaksonandPatriciaGross,pleasesay,“aye,”opposed,“nay,”

abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.

Walter:Remindmenevertoattendahorseauction.[Laughter]

Gould:Nextup,wehavetheproposaltorevisePolicy6.10,newlytitledAcademic

Freedom,SharedGovernanceandAcademicResponsibility.Thiscamebeforethe

Senatelastfall.WereferredittoEPC,andrequestedtheyconsultwiththe

AdministrationandAnitaGordon.Theyhavedonethat,soScott(Peters)isback

withanupdate.Isthistheversion?Theredlineversion?

Peters:Yes.

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Gould:Okay.Sowouldyouliketomakeanycomments?Peters:Sure,justbriefly.Thanksforhavingmeback.I’mhereonbehalfofthe

EducationalPoliciesCommission.I’mVice-Chairofthatcommittee.Welookedat

thereferral,madeveryfewchangestoit.WedidconsultwithAdministration,in

fact,suggestedlanguagetostrengthentheguaranteeofacademicfreedom.Ifyou

noticeinthethirdparagraphofthePurposeStatement,thelanguagenowsays,

“TheUniversitythereforemustguaranteeacademicfreedomforitsfaculty.”The

word‘guarantee’wassuggestedbyProvostWohlpart,andsoAdministrationhas

beenverysupportive.WeconsultedwithAnitaGordonandtheCenterfor

AcademicEthics.She,alongwithAdministration,expressedconcernthatthe

responsibilitiessideofthepolicyneedstobeupdated.EPCagreeswiththat.

Giventheimportanceofthetopicandthetenorofthetimes,wefeelthatit’san

importantstatementfortheUniversitytomakerightnowaboutourcommitment

toacademicfreedom,andasVice-ChairoftheEPC,I’mhereonbehalfoftheEPC

tosaythatwewilltakeuptheresponsibilitysideoftheequationnextyear,and

doamoreholisticreviewofnotonlythispolicy,butalsotheacademicethicsand

researchpolicy,andalsothestudentacademicethicspolicy,whichAnita’s

(Gordon’s)Center[theCenterforAcademicEthics]recentlydidasurveythat

indicatedthatthere’squiteabitofmisunderstandingaboutthatpolicyandit

needstoberevisitedaswell.IthinkifanythingsinceIlastcametotalktoyou,

eventssincethattimehavemadeadoptionofthispolicyevenmoreimportant.

TheUniversityneedsastrongstatementofacademicfreedom,andtheroleit

playsininstitutionsofHigherEd.Inourpolicy.Wealwaysneededtomakeit

stronger,Ithink.ButIthinkthat’sevenmoreimportantnow,giventhe

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restrictions,sotospeakoftheMasterAgreement,andgivensomeofthethings

we’reseeingnationallyintermsofrealchallengestothevaluesofacademic

freedom.

Gould:DoesanybodyhaveanyquestionsforScott(Peters)?Swan:DoesthisrequireustochangeourFacultyConstitution?So,forexample

rightnowIdon’tknowiftenure-lineassistantprofessorsarebarredfrombeing

ChairoftheFacultySenate,forexample,buttermfacultyare.Adjunctfacultyare.

Thispolicysoundslikethatwouldbeinviolationofthispolicy.Itcertainlyseems

tomewouldbeinviolationofthespiritofthismoreacademicfreedomformore

people,thatisinformingthis.SoIwonderaboutyourviewofthat.

Peters:I’mnotsurethatthatrequiresthattohappen,butIthinkitallowsitto

happen.Ifyou’llnoticethelanguageinRomanNumeralTwo,whichsaysthat,

“TheUniversityshallstrivetointegrateallfacultyintothesharedgovernanceof

theUniversity,consistentwiththetermsoftheircontract.”Ithinkthatallowsfor

alevelofprotectionofparticipationinsharedgovernancethatwouldallowthe

Universityfaculty,ifitchoosesto,toexpandvotingrightstothosewhoplayarole

inthatsharedgovernance,whoaren’talreadymembersofthevotingfaculty.So

basicallythatwouldbetherelativelysmallhandfulofadjunctfacultywhohave

someserviceresponsibility,andthesomewhatlargernumberoftermfaculty,I

wouldthink,manyofwhomalreadydothosethings.Butthat’sultimatelyupto

theUniversityfacultytodecide.Itwouldhavetobeafacultyamendmenttothe

FacultyConstitution.

17

Hakes:Soyou’resaying,someonecouldbeChairoftheFacultySenateand

couldn’tsitonaPAC?Isthatcorrect?

Peters:Well,Idon’tknowbecausewedon’tknowbecausewedon’tknowwhat

PACSaregoingtolooklikeunderthenewFacultyHandbook.

Hakes:IwouldthinkthatnoonewouldbesittingonaPACthat’snottenure-

track.

Peters:IactuallysaidnothingaboutwhocouldbeChairoftheUniversityFaculty.

AllIsaidwasthatifthefacultychose,itcouldexpandvotingrights,knowingthat

byexpandingvotingrights--knowingthatindoingso,thosepeoplewhoit’sgiving

votingrightswouldhavesomeprotectionintheirparticipationinfaculty

governance.Rightnow,thoseofuswhoareontenureortenure-tracklinesenjoy

theprotectionoftenure,right?Wehavepeople,includingpeopleatthistable,

whodoservice,butwhodon’tenjoycurrentlyanyreallevelofprotectionfrom

theirengagementinthatserviceunderUniversitypolicy.Thiswouldgivethem

somelevelofprotection.

Hakes:AmImistakenoristhatnotprotectionearnedbyhavingatenure-track

line?Whatyou’resayingisatenure-trackpersonhastogothroughhurdlesand

jumpsandleapsandsupervision,andonandontogainthatindependence,but

someonewho’sjusthiredatamomentandjustinstantlyhasit?

Peters:I’mmakingnoclaimsaboutwhattheFacultyConstitutionwilllooklikeor

whowillbeabletohavevotingrights.Thatisupultimatelytothefacultyto

decide.Personally,Idon’tbelievethatthetenuresystemsetsupaclasssystem

18

thatdeniestoanentirecategoryofpeopletheabilitytoparticipatemeaningfully

inthecommunitythattheychoosetobeapartof,butsomefacultymembersdo

believethat.

Hakes:Don’twerestrictvotingoncertaincommitteesandallsortsofthingsto

tenuredfacultywhenwedothat?

Peters:Again,IwouldsaythatthatisultimatelyuptotheUniversityfacultyto

decide,andwecanhavethatdebate.ThisdoesnotcompeltheUniversityfaculty

tomakethatdecision.

Hakes:Thoseindividualswouldnothavetherighttobeonthatcommitteedueto

this?

Peters:Duetothischangealone?No.IftheUniversityfacultychosetoexpand

thoserights,thischangewouldgivesomelevelofprotection,thatwouldmake

thatparticipationmoresecureandmoremeaningfulforthem.

Pike:I’mjusttryingtoclarifyhere.Sothispolicyisaboutextendingacademic

freedomprotectionstofacultywhoarenotnecessarilycurrentlycoveredbythe

policynow?Itencouragesthesharedgovernance,butitdoesn’treallyaddress

howthatwouldbeimplemented,orhowthatsharedgovernancemeans.Thisis

moreaboutextendedtheprotectionsofacademicfreedom?AmIgettingthat

correct?

Peters:IwouldagreewiththatandIwouldmakeoneslightchangetoit,andthat

isthatatthemoment,andIhaven’tseendraftsofthehandbook,soIhaveno

19

cluewhattheHandbooksays,orwhatitwillsay—butatthemoment,whenthe

MasterAgreementexpires,thereisnothinginUniversitypolicythatindicatesany

levelofprotectionofacademicfreedomatthemoment.Okay?Tome,thatis

fundamentallywrongforaUniversitytohavenostatementsinitspolicyabout

theimportanceandcentralityofacademicfreedomtotheenterpriseinwhich

we’reengaged.SowhatIwouldsaythatslightlychanges,isthatthispolicy

protectseverybody’sacademicfreedom.

Wohlpart:IfIcouldjustclarify,itprotectsallfacultymember’sacademicfreedom

indoingtheirduties,theirresponsibilities?

Peters:Absolutely.Yes.Wohlpart:Let’sjustbeclear,itdoesnotextendittostaff,professionaland

scientificstaff,ormeritstaff.AndIwanttopointoutthatthereisdistinction

betweenacademicfreedomandsharedgovernance.Thisisperhapsopeningthe

doortobroadenthecultureofwho’sincludedinsharedgovernancewhichgoes

David,(Hakes)toyourquestion.Itdoesnotdecidetheanswertothatquestion,

butitopensthedoortothepossibility.Itdoesnotsaythatsomeonewho’snotin

aPAC,nottenured,canallofasuddendoX,Y,&Z,butitdoesopenthedoorfor

youalltohavethoseconversations.AndwhatIappreciateaboutthis,istheidea

thatsuddenlyaclassoffolkswhomaynothavebeenincludedincertainshared

governancepractices,nowcanbe,andit’sreallyuptothefacultytocome

togethertodecidewhatthatmeans.Iwilljustgiveyou—thisisnotanimposition

onthefaculty—IwouldagreewithwhatScott(Peters)said,Idon’tseeanyreason

whyyoushouldnotextendthatcourtesytoallfacultywhoaredoingthecore

20

workofteachingourstudents,indifferentways.Butthat’suptothefacultyto

decide.

Swan:I’mgladyoupointedouttheSectionTwobecauseIthinkthat’sthenubof

whatwe’rediscussinghere.Thisisapolicy,right?Andsoitwillbeincumbent

upontheAdministrationtoexecutethispolicy,anditsoundstomethatFaculty

Constitutionisinviolationofthispolicy.Butyou’resayingthatit’snot.Thatwe

cancontinuewiththecurrentFacultyConstitution,ifthat’swhatwedecide.And

itsoundstomethatwecan’t.AndI’msupportiveofchangingtheFaculty

Constitutiontodothis,butIwantittobeclearherethatthisbody--the

representativesoftheFaculty,areputtingintopolicy--somethingthatmakestheir

Constitutionobsoleteorinviolation,andinneedofupdating,changing,

embracingtheincreasedacademicfreedomformorepeople;thesesortsof

things.SoIdon’tthinkthatit’sgoodforustosaythatitdoesn’tdothat.Wecan

continuetobeatodds,butwewouldbeatodds.Wethefacultyrepresentatives,

saythisisgood,andourConstitutiondoesneedtobechanged,andweshould

addressthatinthefall,itseemstome.

Peters:Iunderstandwhatyou’resaying.I’vehavealwaysbeen—I’lladmitthat

I’vealwaysbeenalittle…Idon’tknowwhattherightwordis—confused,Iguess,

foralackofabetterword,abouttherelationshipbetweentheFaculty

ConstitutionandUniversitypolicies.I’vecertainlyheardfacultymembersexpress

theviewwhichIunderstand,thattheFacultyConstitutionandthebylawsofthe

Senateisfundamentallyaboutwhatthefacultywanttodo.Wecanreorganize

ourselves,andinsenseourorganizationofthefacultydoesn’tdependonthe

Administration,right?It’sindependentofthat.Wegettogetherasafacultyand

21

wemakeourdecisions.ButIdohearwhatyou’resayingaboutasrepresentatives

ofthefacultypassingthis.ThatcouldsuggestthattheFacultyConstitutionneeds

tobechanged.Asyouknow,whatpromptedthiswasinfactarecognitionthat

acrosscampusforsometime,therehadbeenacademicunitsthataren’t

followingtheFacultyConstitution,andthatperiodicallyleadstopeoplewhoare

involvedandengaged,gettingelectedtoUniversitycommitteesandthenwehave

togobackandholdnewelections,becausethey’renoteligibletobeonthe

Universitycommittees.Ourlargestcollegegrantsvotingrightstopeoplewho—

it’sConstitution,itsbylaws,grantsvotingrightstopeoplewhoarenotvoting

membersoftheUniversityfaculty--namelytermfacultymembers.AndsoIthink

thatpersonally,IsupportsomechangetotheFacultyConstitutionthat

guaranteesthatthosewhohaveserviceobligations;thosewhoaresomething

morethanjust…Idon’tknowwhatthelanguagewouldlooklike.Butinmymind,

it’snotnecessarilytheStateSenatorthatwehiretoteachaclassonceevery

otheryear,butfacultymemberswhoaretrulymembersofthecommunity,

shouldhavetheabilitytoparticipatemeaningfullyinthatcommunity.

Swan:TofollowupwiththatScott,(Peters)thepolicies—andthat’swhatthisis

beforeus,aretheresponsibilityoftheAdministrationtoexecuteandmakesure

they’reabidedby.WhereastheFacultyConstitutionistheresponsibilityofthe

facultytomanagethatandguaranteethat.So,withthispolicy,thesedecisions

arebeingputultimatelyinthehandsoftheAdministration?Isthatcorrect?

Peters:Idon’tknowananswertothatquestion,honestly.Doyouseelanguage

thatyouthinkcouldbechangedthatwouldresolvethat?

22

Swan:I‘mnotsurethatthat’snecessarilyabadthing.Therecouldbegood

things.

Campbell:Asapolicy,whenwearepassingthisweareendorsingthis,butit’sthe

Administrationwhichisgoingtoapproveit.Theymaydosomewordsmithing

beforetheyapproveit,andthePresident’scabinetisgoingtohavetoapprove

this.WhereastheFacultyConstitutionIbelieve—thatbelongstothefaculty.Is

thatcorrect?

Peters:Correct.Campbell:ThisisaUniversitypolicy.ItdoesnotgointoeffectuntilthePresident’s

cabinetapprovesit.

Wohlpart:Yes,wecantalkaboutprocess,whichwouldbeimportanttodo.This

wouldgotothePolicyReviewCommittee.ItwillgototheCabinet.ItgoestoEMT

[ExecutiveManagementTeam].Weareprobablysixmonthsofffromthisbeing

approved,atleast.Maybelonger.Everythingisaprocess,andIappreciatethe

factthatit’scomingtoyouallfirstforyourconsideration.Thisnotyourlast

chancetocommentonthis.Youactuallywillgetotherchances,becauseweput

allpoliciesupforUniversityreview.

Hakes:Iamabitconfused.Weopenedthediscussionasifthisisjustabout

spreadingacademicfreedomacrossmoreofourfacultymembers.Butthenthe

discussionsayswhatinitiatedthiswasgettingvotingrightsforpeople.Andyou’re

going,“That’swhatIthought.”Yousee,thosetwo…that’swhatIthought.The

objectiveisundertheguiseofacademicfreedomforeverybody.We’regoing

23

to…itwon’thappenimmediately,butitwillopenupthediscussionforvoting

rightsfortermpeople,whichiswhatitseemstome.

Peters:Iwouldobjecttothecharacterizationofitas“undertheguiseof

academicfreedom.”It’sexpandingtheabilityofpeoplewhodolaborandteach

ourstudents,andparticipateinoursharedgovernancetovoicetheiropinionsis

notaguise.That’savalue.Andit’safundamentalvaluethatIwouldhopewe

wouldallshare.

Hakes:It’swhatinitiated…Peters:Whatinitiatedit…Hakes:Whatinitiatedwasthefactthatwehadpeoplesittingoncommitteesthat

wereeitherviolatingtheConstitution,andwewantedtogetthatfixed.I’mjust

saying…I’mjustrepeatingbacktoyouwhatyousaid.

Peters:Iwouldsaythat’sclosetowhatIjustsaid,whichiswhatinitiateditwasa

recognitionthatourcurrentpoliciesdonotprotectthewaysthatinmanycases

ourfacultycurrentlyparticipateinsharedgovernance.

Pike:Soitdoesseemtomethatthereisaconflictinthepolicythat’sbeing

presentedtous.Inthelastparagraph,afterRomanNumeralOne,Academic

Freedom,thereisasentencethatsays,“Allfaculty,regardlessofrankor

appointment,shallbeentitledtoprotectionoftheiracademicfreedom,”and

then“andshallbeprovidedtheopportunitytofullyparticipateinshared

governance.”ThenRomanNumeralTwosays,talksaboutacommitment,“shall

strivetointegrateallfaculty,”butitdoesn’treallysayhowthatshouldbedone.

24

AndIthinkthat’swheretheissueis.There’ssomeconflict.Inoneplaceit

proscribeshowthatshouldbedone,andthisparagraphjustsays,“Weshould

strivetodothat.”AndthinkingaboutthepotentialconflictwiththeFaculty

Constitution.Doesthatmakesense,thatthere’ssortofaconflictthere?

Peters:Iunderstandwhatyou’resaying.Thatparagraphyoupointto,thefirst

paragraphunder“Policy.”Ican’trememberforsure…Yeah,thatwasnotin

the…thatmaynothavebeeninthedraftthelasttimeIcametoyou.Mynotesare

alittleincompletehere,butIfeellikethatmighthavebeeninsertedasaresultof

ourfirstdiscussionwithyou.

Pike:ItdoeslooklikeitcomesfromtherecommendationoftheAAUPreport.I’m

justpointingoutthere’salittlebitofacontradictionthereintermsofwhether

wewanttotalkaboutstrivingandbeingopen;howwe’regoingtoaccomplish

thatgoalasspecified.

Hesse:Isstriveconsistentwiththetermsofourcontract?Pike:Right,butagainthatotherparagraphsaystheyshouldallbevoting.They

shouldallparticipate.“Shallbeprovidedtheopportunitytofullyparticipatein

sharedgovernance.”

Hesse:Itdoesn’tsayvotingrights.Wohlpart:That’snotvotingrights.Howyoudeterminesharedgovernanceisuptoyou.Pike:Maybethat’swheretheconfusionis.

25

Wohlpart:IfIcouldmakeacomment:OneofthethingsthatIactuallytalked

aboutwhenIinterviewedandinthefirstyearthatIwashere,wasthatwedon’t

reallyhavearobustenoughunderstandingofsharedgovernanceonthiscampus,

inmyopinion.Ithinkwecrossthelinesinallsortsofwayswithshared

governance.Iwouldencourage—Ithinkthisissuchahealthyconversation,butI

don’tthinkyouallaregoingtogettowhereyouneedtobetoday,becauseIthink

whatyou’retalkingaboutisapotentialcultureshift,whichisawesomethat

you’retalkingaboutthat,butthisisnotaplacetoshiftculture.Andapolicy’snot

aplacetoshiftculture.SoIwouldencourageyouallto,andIhatetodothisto

Scott(Peters)becausehe’sworkedreallyhardonthis,istohavemaybeamore

robustconversationoutsideofRobert’sRules,whereyouguyscanreallytalk

aboutwhereyou’reheaded.

Peters:TheproblemwiththatiswehaveamajorCatch22,andthatisthatthe

cultureshiftdiscussionisfundamentallyaboutthekindofthingsthatSenator

HakesandIhavebeentalkingabout.Butthatdiscussionisalmostmootifpeople

whocurrentlyaren’trecognizedundertheFacultyConstitutionasvoting

membershavenoprotectionfortheirparticipationinthefirstplace.Soit

becomesasortofchickenandeggquestion.Somethingjustoccurredtome,andI

don’tknowwhyitneveroccurredtomeinthemonthsthatwe’veworkedonthis

indifferentcommittees,butratherthanthelanguageinRomanNumeralTwo

about,“integratingallfacultyintosharedgovernanceoftheUniversity,consistent

withthetermsoftheircontract,”Iwonderiftherecouldbelanguageinthere

thatsayssomethinglike,“integratingallfacultyrecognizedbytheFaculty

Constitutionasvotingmembers.”Thatwouldgivetheprotectiontoallvoting

26

membersinUniversityPolicy,andthenwouldallowthebroaderdiscussionof

whoshouldbeavotingmembertohappen.Idon’tknowwhatSenatorHesseor

SenatorKochthinksofthatpossibility.Idon’tknow.It’shonestlysomethingthat

justoccurredtome.

Hesse:I’mnotafanofthis.Isupportthepolicy.I’mnotafanofwhatwasjust

proposed.IwasinvolvedinanearlydraftofthisandthenIleftthegroup.Andthe

contextforthisis,wetalkaboutacademicfreedom,academicresponsibilityand

sharedgovernance,butwereallydon’thaveanysetpoliciesorclearexplanations

aboutwhatthesetermsactuallymean.Sowhatwedidiswetriedtograbwhat

wehadfromanyresourcesavailableatUNI,lookatotherschools,lookatAAUP

andcombinethemalltogetherinadocumentwhichwehaverighthere.Thetopic

ofextendingvotingrightsisavery,veryimportanttopic,butthat’saseparate

topicthanthis.Thisisjustapolicystatementonacademicfreedom,academic

responsibility,andsharedgovernance.Inparticular,protectingpeoplewho

choosetoserveoncommitteeswhohaveadjunctorparttimestatus.Roman

NumeralTwothere,SharedGovernance.AndsoI’mconcernedthatthe

discussion’sgettingblurredbetweenthispolicyandextendingvotingrights.I

wouldconsiderthosetobedefinitelyseparateissues.Thevotingrightsextension

willbeprobablydiscussedinthefuture,butthekeythingis—it’sinthefuture.

Peters:Actually,yourcommentjuststruckhomeanotherpointthatwe’vekindof

overlooked,andthat’sthatevenifthefacultyweretokeepthecurrentdefinition

of“votingfaculty,”therestillarecircumstances,asontheSenate,wherenon-

votingfacultyparticipateinsharedgovernance.Therearenon-votingfaculty

membersinvariouscommittees.

27

Hesse:There’satleastonecommitteeononecampuswhereadjunctsarea

majorityofthemembersonthecommittee.Theworldischanged,andsothisis

designednottoextendvotingrights,buttoextendsomeprotectionsforthe

peoplewhochoosetoserveUNI,andofteninvolvegoingbeyondwhattheir

contractstipulates.

Campbell:I’mjustthinkingthatIthinkit’stooproactiveforsomepeople.Again,

underpolicy,“Shallbeentitledtoprotectedacademicfreedom,shallbeprovided

theopportunitytofullyparticipateinsharedgovernance.”Ithinkyouwanted

somethingmorelike,“Whichwillprotectthemwhenparticipatinginshared

governance.”AnddownunderTwo,“Shallstrivetointegrateallfacultyinto

sharedgovernance.”Again,thatisamorepowerfulstatementthanmanypeople

wouldlikeatthispointintime.“Shallprotectfacultywhileservinginshared

governance,”ratherthan“Strivingto”bringthemintosharedgovernance.

Swan:Ithinkthatpartoftheissue,andyouwerehittingonitverynicely,isthat

someofthewords,suchas“fullparticipants.”Whenwereadthat,whatdoesthat

mean?Toalotpeoplethatwouldmean—oh,well--voting.Thatifyoudon’tvote,

you’renotgiventheopportunitytofullyparticipate.Althoughunderourcurrent

systemofsharedgovernanceasconstructedbytheFacultyConstitution,non-

votingfacultymembersdofullyparticipatewhentheyengagetheroleasanon-

votingfacultymember.Ithinkthat’spartofwhatyou’reunderstanding.You’re

understandingthefullnessofthehistoryofUNI,andthegoverningdocuments

andthissortofthing,that’swhyyouthinkofthis,butlotsofotherpeopledon’t

seeanon-votingfacultymemberfullyparticipatingasnon-votingfacultymember,

28

asfullparticipants,becausesomepeopleseevotingasnecessarytothedefinition

offullparticipation.Ithinkthat’serroneous,butotherpeopledon’t,right?And

that’spartofthedifferences,andwhywehavetokeephavingdiscussionslike

this.Whenyou’retalking,itsoundslikeyou’representingthisassaying,and

SenatorHessehassaidthis,thatvotingisaseparateissue.Andthat’swhyIcan

see,votingisaseparateissue,becausenon-votingfacultymemberscurrentlyfully

participateasnon-votingfacultymembers.Ifwewantedtochangethatshared

governancesystemwecould,butwedon’thaveto.Butotherpeopledon’t

understanditthatway.SoIthinkthat’spartoftheissue,ishowpeoplethink

aboutfullparticipation.

Peters:Inlightofthosecomments,Iwouldencouragepeople—Ican’toffer

amendments,I’mnotamemberofthisbody.Youguysare.Youcanmake

decisions,soifyouwanttopasssomethingthataffirmsourcommitmentto

academicfreedomandsharedgovernance,byallmeans,makeamendments,and

lesspasssomething.

Gould:Yes.Yes.Swan:Wouldyoubeopentoreceivingwordingfrompeople,andwewould

handlethisfirstthingatournextmeetingwiththenewwordingthatcomesto

you?

Peters:Iwouldbewillingtodothat,sure.Swan:Sothat’sonepossibility,butwecouldchangethingstoonow,asyou

suggested.

29

Gould:Didyouwanttomakeamotion?Swan:Ican’ttellwhatotherpeoplewant.Gould:Whatwouldyouguysliketodomovingforward?Campbell:Iwouldmovetotable,becauseIthinkthewordsmithingisnotgoingto

getdoneatthismeeting.

Swan:Wait,soshallwe,becauseProfessorPetershasworkedonthisforyears,

andtablingcanbeindefinite.Couldwemakeamotionsaying,“Thiswillbethe

firstthingunderdocketedbusinessatournextmeeting,withthenewwording

that’sbeenproposedthathe’sworkedwithandintegrated?Doesthatsound

okay?Ipreferthattotablingit.

Hesse:Canwegetagreementonnewwordingintwoweeks?Swan:Ihatetomakeitlonger.I’mthinkingofProfessorPetersandhowmany

yearshe’sactuallybeenworkingwiththis,butIdon’tknow.ProfessorPeters,can

wegetthisdoneintwoweeks,doyouthink?Reallyaweek--isn’tit?Becausewe

sendthingsoutaweekaheadforconsideration.

Wohlpart:Ijustalsowanttomakethepointreallyquicklythatyouallarenot

approvingthispolicy.Youdon’thavetheauthoritytoapprovepolicies.That’s

actuallythePresidentandtheEMT.Whatyou’redoingissendingthisforward

intothepolicyprocess,whereyouwillhavelotsofopportunitytohavemore

feedback.Thatwillhappeninthefallsemester.Youallknownowsomeofthe

conceptsthatareinhere,thatperhapsrubupagainstyourConstitution.You

30

shouldlookbackatyourConstitutioninthefall,andseeiftheyfallinline.That

willengendersomeconversationaboutnewlanguagethatyoucouldproposeas

thisgoesthroughthepolicyprocess.Youallarenotapprovingthis.It’snotdone

today.Youdon’thavetheauthoritytodothat.You’resaying,“Thisisgreatwork.

Let’smoveitforwardintothepolicyprocess.”That’sallyou’redoing.

Kidd:Iwouldsay,getitdonerightnow.Idon’twanttowaituntilafterthis

semester,tobehonest.Wedon’twanttogoforwardwithoutthispolicypassed

insomeformifwecanhelpit.Butifyouwanttodiscussacoupleofwords,not

majorchanges,butabitofthewording,Iwon’tmind.

Pike:I’mgoingtoproposeasmallamendment.Isomewhatdisagreewithyou.I

havenoproblemwiththisparagraphasittalksabout“strivingtointegrate.”

That’sagreatthing.That’sagoal.Maybejustacoupleofwordstoclarify

protectiontothoseinthatparagraphaboutfullyparticipate,“theprotectionis

extendedtoallthosewhoareparticipatinginsharedgovernance,”fortheir

participation.Somesmallclarificationthere…

Gould:Whichsectionareyou…?Pike:Theparagraphrightabovethat,“Asfurtherdefinedbelow—Allfaculty,

regardlessoftheirprotectionofacademicfreedomandshallbeprovidedthat

protectionastheyparticipateinsharedgovernance.”Doesthat?It’sasmall

change.Doesthatclarifyatallthatit’sabouttheprotection,andwecandecide

laterabouttheextenttowhichwewanttolookattheFacultyConstitutionabout

participatingandvoting.

31

Funderburk:Listeningtothisontheside,itstrikesmethatyou’rehungup

primarilyontheword‘fully.’Soifyou’retryingtomovethisforward,youcould

justdeletetheword‘fully.’“Shallbeprovidedtheopportunitytoparticipatein

sharedgovernance,”ifyou’retryingtowordsmiththat.

Hakes:Ididn’tknowthiswasadocumentaboutprovidingopportunitiesfor

sharedgovernance.It’ssaying,“Ifyou’reinvolvedinsharedgovernance,you

deservetheprotectionsofacademicfreedom.”Thoseareseparatethings.One

hasbeenstated,veryproactiveastowhatweimaginethefuture,asopposedto

justsaying,“Ifyou’recalledtoserveonacommittee,youshouldbeprotected.”

That’sadifferentthingbetweensayingyouhavefullrightstofullyparticipateand

beon…Idon’tknowwhereyou’regoingwiththat.Andthere’snoreasontoeven

gothereifyou’reobjectivewastoprotectacademicfreedomofpeoplecalled

uponintouchyspotstoserveoncommittees,tobeabletosaywhattheyneedto

say,thenlet’ssaythat.Idon’tthinktakingthatword‘fully’outisevenclose.

Swan:Ithelps.Hakes:We’renotprovidingopportunities,we’resaying,“Ifyou’recalledupon,

youdeserveprotection.Isn’tthatwhatweoriginallythoughtwe’redealingwith?

Unlesswe’retryingtodosomethingelse,too.

Zeitz:Sowhatyou’resayingisthatifsomebodysays,“No,”they’renotgoingto

bereceivinganykindof...

Hakes:Soiftheysay“no”aboutwhat?

32

Zeitz:Soinotherwords,ifthey’recalledtoserve,andtheysay“No,Idon’twant

toserve.”Isthatwhatwe’retalkingaboutwithacademicfreedomhere?

Hakes:I’mtalkingaboutwhenthey’reserving,theycansaywhattheywantto

say.

Zeitz:Isee.Hakes:I’mthinking…Ijustthinkabouthowcarefully...Thereasonthisbothersme

is,Ithinkofhowcarefullywehireassistantprofessors,andhowcarefullywe

placethemintosituationswheretheycouldhaveaproblem.AndthenIknow

howdifferentthatisfromwhenwehireadjuncts,andhow…YouseewhatI’m

saying?Icannothelpbutthinkthatthereisgreaterprotectioninasense,being

providedtosomeoneinstantly,thanthewaywetakecareofsomeonewhosean

assistantprofessorrank.Ifindthistobesooutofbalance,thatallI’msayingis

thatifwe’regoingtohavesomeoneserve,andit’spartoftheircontracttoserve

sometimes,thentheyshouldbegrantedacademicfreedom.ButIdon’tknowthat

weshouldgofurtherandsay,“thatpositionhasrights”toanythingyet.Idon’t

knowwhywe’reevengoingthere.

Pike:I’mgoingtotryandbringthistoaclose.IfIcouldmakeamotionthatwe

approvethispolicyaspresentedwithonechange,thatinsteadof“shallbe

providedtheopportunitytofully,”changethatto“duringparticipationinshared

governance.”Soitsaysitbasicallyjustsaysthey’reentitledtoprotectionoftheir

academicfreedomduringparticipationinsharedgovernance,andshallbe

expectedtofulfilltheiracademicandethicalresponsibilities,”andjustmoveit

forwardfromhere.

33

Peters:MayIsuggestjustoneadditionalword?Pike:Sure.Peters:“entitledtoprotectionoftheiracademicfreedom,protectionduringtheir

participationinsharedgovernance,”tomakesurethatit’sclearthatacademic

freedomisnotonlyaboutsharedgovernance.

Pike:CanImakethatmotion?Gould:Youcanmakethemotion.CanIhaveasecond?SomovedbySenator

Zeitz.Okay,allinfavor…

Swan:Nowwediscusstheamendment.Gould:Okay.Discussionontheamendment.Campbell:IhaveaquestionforSenatorHakes.I’mstilllookingatRomanNumeral

Two:SharedGovernance,andareyoubotheredbythat,“shallstrivetointegrate

allfacultyintothesharedgovernance”?

Hakes:Yes.Idon’tthinkthatthiswaswhatabout.Ithoughtthatthiswasabout

extendingacademicfreedomtothosethatarecalledupontoserve.That’swhatit

wasoriginallyproposed.Peoplearecalledupon,sometimescontractually,tobe

involvedinserviceobligationsthatarecontractuallyrequiredofthem,andthey

don’thaveacademicfreedomprotection.That’sthewayitwassoldtousfrom

DayOne.That’swhatwe’redealingwith.Isee.Ifit’sinyourcontractthatyou

havetoparticipateonthese,thenyes—thatmakessense.Itdidn’thaveanything

todowithadvancingotherissues.Soyeah,Iwouldhaveaproblemwiththat,too.

34

ButIagreewiththefirststep.Again,youcanpassthiswithoutme.I’mjustsaying

howthiswasapproachedatthebeginninghadnothingtodowithmaking

statementsaboutinclusion,anditallhadtodowithinfact--thatwastheexample

given--thatpeoplewhoareadjunctshavecontractsthatrequirethemtoservein

certainwaysthatcanbetouchy.That’sthewayitwasbroughttous,andthat’s

thewayitwasbroughttous.That’sthewayitwas.

Kidd:Justaquestion:IthoughtIcouldchangethewordingjusttoreflectthe

proposedamendment.CouldyoupleaserepeatthatScott(Peters)?

Peters:IthinkSenatorPike’samendmentwas…Pike:“Aprotectionwhileparticipatinginsharedgovernance.”Wasn’tthatit?And

therestofthatwastakenout.

[FacultyChairKiddreworksproposaloncomputer]Pike:Ithinkthat’swhatScottasked--wastoclarify…”protectionoftheiracademic

freedom,”IthinkthatwasthesuggestionfromScott(Peters)afterminewasto

addacomma.

Zeitz:Replacethecommawithan‘and.’

Skaar:Didn’tScott(Peters)suggestreplacing‘and’with“duringshared

governance”?

Zeitz:Shouldn’titbe“protectionoftheiracademicfreedomwhileparticipatingin

sharedgovernance”?Sogetridof‘and’‘protection’and‘while’.

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Pike:Wellthenthatlimitsittoonlyprotectingitwhilethey’reparticipatingin

sharedgovernance.

Campbell:It’savailableotherplaces.Wohlpart:Attheheadofyourpolicyyou’renowlimitingacademicfreedomto

justparticipationinsharedgovernance.

Cobb:Idohopethateverybodyknowsthattherearesomanychances—doyou

knowhowthepolicyreviewprocessworks?Jimmentionedit,butit’sjustlike

saying,“NowScott,youcanputthisforward.”Thenit’sposted,andsomebody

canreallyfigureouttheperfectwordingforit,andallthosegobacktoScott.

Theygetsenttopolicyreview.

Peters:They’llgotoGretchen(Gould)becauseit’stheSenate’spolicyCobb:Andthenthere’sanotherchancefortheFacultySenatetoactuallyapprove

orsendforwardthepolicythathastobedoneattheUniversitylevel,but--I

agreewithTim(Kidd)thatit’snicetogetitforward,buttherearesomany

chances,andIjustthoughtIshouldsaythat.

Gould:Thankyou.Scott(Peters)?Swan:Ihadaprocedurequestionwiththatthen.Socouldwepassthisasgeneral

ideasthatlotsofthefacultythinkmightbegood,butnotendorsingtheverbiage

asit’sgoingforwardtosenditthroughthisprocessthatyou’retalkingabout,that

thenwouldcomebacktotheFacultySenatetobeapprovedorrejectedafter

that?Sowecouldhavethatmotion,whichisquitedifferentthanmostpeople

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havebeenthinkingaboutit,evenProfessorPeters.Butthatmightbeagoodway

tomoveforwardtoday.

Burnight:Thisissosad.[Laughter]Couldwejustforpurposesofgrammatical

sentence,couldwejusthaveacommaafterfreedom,andthenjustsay,

“includingprotectionwhileparticipatinginsharedgovernance”?

Pike:Whilehe’stypingthat,Ididhaveamotiononthefloortoapprovethis.I

wouldacceptafriendlyamendmenttochangethewordingtowhatyousuggest.

I’llmakethemotionthatwearepassingthisalongintothepolicyapproval

processforfurtherreviewfartherdowntheroad.Andthen,Iwouldlookfora

second.

Gould:IthasbeenmovedbySenatorPikeandsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter

thatwearemovingtoputthisintothepolicyreviewprocess.

Swan:Andjustfortherecorder,whathashappenedisthatthepersonwho

sponsoredamotiontoamendhasremovedthat,andhehasreplaceditwiththis

motion.Isthatcleartotherecorderfortheminutes?Good.

Gould:Allinfavorofthemotionputforthonthefloor,pleasesay,“aye,”all

opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.

Swan:VerygoodProfessorPeters.Thisreallyhasbeenmanyyearsofalotof

workwithalotofpeople,soIcommendyouandthankyou.

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Gould:Sowehavefiveminutesleft,unlessthereisamotiontoextendthe

meetingforfifteenminutesorevenless,fiveminutes?

Swan:Wecan’tdowhatweneedtodoinfiveminutesobviously.

Pike:Let’sgetgoingandseehowfarweget.Dhanwada:There’sstilltwoitemslefttobediscussed.Gould:AssociateDeanFunderburk,sorry.[Laughter]Let’sstartonthis

conversation.

Funderburk:Haveyoubeenabletopulltheseup?Haveyouseentheselearning

outcomes?They’vebeenoutthere.Theverycondensedversionisthatwe’ve

recommendedthreeUniversity-levellearningoutcomesthatamounttocritical

thinking,communication,andprogramcontentknowledge.Thesehavebeen

endorsedwiththiswordingfromallCollegeSenates.They’vebeenreviewedby

theUniversityCurriculumCommittee,theCouncilofDepartmentHeads,the…

Peters:they’vebeenreviewedinwriting.Wegotsomefeedbackfromthe

UniversityWritingCommittee,andtheywerealsosentinwritingtothedeansand

theassistantcouncil.

Funderburk:thisisaboutasvettedasanythingI’veeverseencometotheSenate

thusfar.Withtheideabeingthatourcommitteewentafterthelowhanging

fruit—thethingswethoughteverybodywouldbeabletoagreeon,andeasily

relatetheirprogram’slearningoutcomestothese,becauseatsomepoint,each

38

departmentwillhavetosay,“Howareweaddressingthis?”andwhatdoesthis

meantous?Sothat’swhatIhavetopresent.

Pike:Ijustwanttomakesure,becauseIrememberinCollegeFacultySenate,one

ofourdiscussionswas,theseareUniversity-level,soourdepartmentcouldfor

examplesay,“Wewanttomorespecificallydefinewhatcriticalthinkingisforus

andimplementthatasanobjective.”Soagain,thesearejustgeneral,University-

level,University-wide,so…nothing’sgoingtoconstrainattheCollegeorSchool

level?

Funderburk:Westruggledtomakethewordingasbroadaspossiblesoevery

departmentcoulddowhatevertheyfeltwastherightthingintheirparticular

area.

Pike:Consistentwith,andpotentiallyinadditiontothese.Funderburk:Exactly.Wohlpart:Thatwillbethenextstep,istoaskdepartmentstoinfactfleshout

whatthismeans,asJeff(Funderburk)said,toyourprogram.

Swan:So,somethinglikeimagination,wouldthatgounderprogramcontentfor

certaindisciplineswhoverymuchengageinimagination,techniquesof

imagination—developingthat?

Funderburk:Icouldseethatasprogramcontentundersomeareas.Withmy

ActingArtDepartmentHeadon,it’sprobablyundervisualcommunicationwith

meatthemoment.

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Peters:Or,letmejustthrowthisoutaswell,whichisthatprogramsarefreeto

decidethattheyhavetheirownoutcomesthattheywishtoassess,aboveand

beyondthethreethatthey’rerequiredto--thethreethatalldepartmentswillbe

requiredto.

Swan:Canoneormoreofthoseadditionalonesbemoreimportantthananyor

allofthese?

Peters:Idon’tknowtheanswertothat.Wohlpart:They’reallthesame.Facultywillgettodecide.Everybodywilldo

criticalthinking,communicationandtheneachprogramwillsay,“Here’sthe

knowledgethat’simportantinhistory,philosophy,elementaryed.Here’sthe

skillsimportantinmydiscipline.”

Zeitz:What’sthereasonforcreatingthese?Withallthestandardsandeverything

thatwehavetocontendwith,andallofthemhaveallthisstuffinit,whyisit

doneonaUniversity-levelaswell?

Wohlpart:HigherLearningCommissionisexpectingthis.It’srequired.Funderburk:Becauseofourcondensedversion,thatwasthefirstslideinmy

PowerPoint.“Here’swhy.”

Pike:Sinceit’sabout4:59,canImakeamotiontoextendthemeetingforfive

minutes?

40

Gould:IhaveamotionbySenatorPikesecondedbySenatorSwanthatwe

extendthemeetingforfiveminutes.Allinfavor,pleasesay“aye,”allopposed,

“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.Wewillextendmeetingforfiveminutes.

Swan:Onelastquestion:Forexample,undercommunicationsattheend,“as

appropriatefortheirdisciplines,”sothatcouldbereallyquitesmall,isthat

correct?Eventhoughit’soneofthethreemajorcompetencies,foradiscipline,

thatcouldbevery,verysmall?Theywouldhavetodosomething,butitcouldbe

small?

Funderburk:I’mnotsayingthisistrue.Let’ssaymyareawasceramics,maybeI’m

satisfiedwiththewritingrequiredattheLAClevel,somyfocusisonamuchmore

rigorousvisualcommunicationstandardthanperhapsyourareawouldbe.

Swan:Andtocontinuewiththatthoughwiththeceramics,oftenthat’snotto

communicateanything.It’stoexpresswithoutnecessarilycommunicationinthe

art,andsothat’swhyitcouldbeevensmallerforthem.Isthattrue?Soit’s

appropriatefortheirdiscipline?

Funderburk:Exactly.That’swhatwe’retryingtogetat.Ithinkit’sclearthatoral

andwrittenarerequiredforeverysingleprogram.That’sintheLAC,soclearlywe

haveastandardthere.Wedon’thaveavisualcommunicationstandard,but

that’s…

Swan:SotheLACcanfulfillthisformanyprogramsthen?Wohlpart:Itcannot.

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Peters:InresponsetoProvostWohlpart,Iwouldsaythatwasonepieceof

feedbackwegotfromCollegeSenates,wasthatpeoplewillneedmore

clarificationonwheretheLACfitsintothese,orhowtheLACfitsoverallinto

University-wideassessment.

Wohlpart:Oneofthethingsyoumustdowhenyougothroughaccreditationis

demonstratethatyourgraduatesmeetyouruniversitylearningoutcomes.And

manyofourstudentscometousfromotherinstitutions,perhapswithanAA.So

allyougetthemforisyourmajor.Sowhateveritisthatyoudoinyourmajor,

yourlearningoutcomeswillhavetomeettheUniversity-widelearningoutcomes.

That’sthereasonformakingthesebroad.YoucannotrelyontheliberalArts

Core,becauseyoudon’tknowthatyourstudentswilltaketheLiberalArtsCore.

NorwillyouknowwhattheyhadgottenintheirLiberalArtsCoreiftheyhavean

Associate’sdegree.Buthowyoudefinethem,inyourmajor,willbeuptoyou.

Skaar:Andthisisforgraduatestudentsandundergraduates?Wohlpart:Itwillbeforallprograms.Thatiscorrect.Allprograms.Zeitz:Willwehavetobedefininghowit’sbeingassessed?Wohlpart:Yes,whichwe’realreadydoing--butyes.Thiswillgiveusaformatforthat.Zeitz:Thankyou.Peters:Weexpectedwhenwedrewtheseupthatmostprogramsthatare

alreadydoingassessmentwillprobablybeabletopointtospecificoutcomesthat

they’vealreadyidentifiedandfitthemwithinthese,andthentheymayhave

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somebeyondtheseaswell.Butwedidnotanticipate,infactwedesignedthis

intentionallyasmuchaswecould,sothatifprogramswerealreadydoing

assessment,theywouldbeabletoseewhatthey’redoingintherequirements.

Zeitz:Thankyou.

Swan:SoalotofprogramsintegratetheLACintotheirprogramsalreadyand

we’renowsayingthat’snotpossible?Wecan’tdothat?

Wohlpart:Thatiscorrect.Swan:SowhatistheLACfornow,forourgraduates?Wohlpart:Thewaythatlearningshouldbedoneisdevelopmentally.TheLiberal

ArtsCorewillalsohavetotakethisonasaprogram,andsay,“Ourlearning

outcomesfortheLiberalArtsCore,isX,Y,andZ,”andwillhavetoincludecritical

thinkingandcommunication,andthenotherthingsthatthefacultywilldecide,

andpresumablythatwillcreateafoundationalsetofknowledgethatyouwill

thenbuildoninyourmajors.

Swan:Yousaidwecan’tusetheLACanymore.Wohlpart:YoucannotusethelearningoutcomesthataredevelopedintheLACin

yourmajors.Youwillhavetoassesscriticalthinking,communication,and

whateverprogramknowledgeandskillsyousay,atwhateverlevel.

Gould:Seeingthatitis5:03,doesanybodywanttoputamotionforthwhetheror

nottotableit,tovoteonit,continuediscussionatthenextmeeting?

43

Zeitz:Imovewevoteonit.Gould:DoIhaveasecond?MovedbySenatorZeitzandsecondedbySenator

BurnighttoapprovetheUniversity-wideStudentLearningOutcomes.Allinfavor,

pleasesay“aye,”allopposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.CanIhavea

motiontoadjourn?CanIhaveamotiontoextendfortheB.A./B.Sthirty-twohour

requirement?It’sbeenmovedbySenatorBurnighttoextendthemeetingten

minutesandsecondedbyVice-ChairWalter.Allinfavor,pleasesay“aye,”

opposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motionpasses.Ira,(Simet)pleasecomeup.

Simet:Thanksforaddingsometimetogettothisone.Aswementionedatthe

lastmeeting,we’vediscoveredthere’sabigdifferencebetweendoublemajors

anddoubledegreesintermsofrequirementsimposedbytheUniversity,andthat

differenceisa32-houradditionifyouwerepursuingadoubledegree,which

wouldbeintheexamplethatweweremostawareof,aBachelorofArtsanda

BachelorofScience.Wetriedtodoalittleresearchtoseewhatthejustification

wasfortheadditional32hours.Itgoesbackalongway,andwecouldn’tfindany

ofourowndocumentsthatspoketothat.Sowe’redecidingitmightbethe

residueofaresidencyrequirement,whichwetypicallyhaveforaseconddegree,

whenstudentscomebackhavingcompletedone.Or,theotherpossibilityisthat

thefacultyfeltatsometimethat32hourswastheminimumcontentneededfor

whatyouwouldcalladegree.Whicheverofthoseitis,welookedtosomeother

universitiesforsomeguidanceaboutthis.IowaStatehasthesamerequirement

aswedoessentially,buttheUniversityofIowarequiresnoadditionalhours.So

youcansee,therearetwoextremes.Andlookingatthetenpeerinstitutionsas

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indicatedbytheRegents,therearefourorfivewhohaverequirementssimilarto

ours.Oneortwothathavenorequirementwhatsoever,andoneortwothat

don’tevengrantdoubledegrees--itdoesn’tevenappearintheircatalog,which

wetookaslicensetogoaheadandmakeaproposalforwhatwethoughtwas

right,andwhatwethingweshoulddoistoeliminatethe32additionalhoursfor

peopledoingconcurrentdoubledegree.Thisdoesn’tapplytopeoplewhoare

goingtofinishadegree,andthenayearortwolaterdecidethey’dlikeanother

degree,andtheywouldcomebackandharvestsomeextrahourstheyhadleft

overandusethose.Ifthatcasehappens,thenwhat’salreadyinthebooksis

separate,andthey’llhavetogoforaseconddegreecompletelyindependently.

We’retalkingaboutstudentswhoaretryingtogetbothdegreesatthesametime

Colin(Weeks)andIhavebeenworkingonthis.Evenatarandomlook—wedidn’t

evenhavetohuntveryhard,wefoundmanyexampleswhereyoucouldfinisha

BachelorofArtsandaBachelorofScience,thepairwewerelookingat,

completelyunderneaththeumbrellaofthe126hoursthatarerequiredforthe

B.S.,forexample.Sothose32hourswouldn’tevencontributetoeitherofthe

degreesyou’dbeenworkingon.Sowethoughtthatkindofdefeatedthepurpose

of32extrahoursasacontentofadegree,becausethecontentofthedegreeis

alreadythere.Andcertainlyanybodydoingconcurrentdegreeshasmetthe

residencyrequirement,sowethoughtthe32hourslookedlikeasurplus

requirementthatweshouldn’timposeanymore,andthat’swhywebroughtthis

proposaltoyou,toseehowyoufeelabouteliminatingthe32-hour,Iliketocallit

thesurcharge--forstudentstryingtodosomethingalittlemoreambitiousand

effectivelybeingpunishedforit.

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Gould:AndyouhavevettedthiswiththeUndergraduateCurriculumCommittee

andtheRegistrar’sOffice?

Simet:Yes.FromtheRegistrar’sOffice,DianeWallaceisheretosupportthat,and

we’vealsogonearoundtoalltheCollegiateSenates.Weheardnoobjections.In

fact,weheardmurmursofsupport.Theonlyobjectionsweheardwerekindof

logisticalobjectionstothestructuredproposalactually,tomakesurethatallof

thepeerinstitutionswererepresented,thingslikethat.Butmostpeoplethought

itwasagoodidea.

Swan:Soeliminatingthesehours,therequirements--sowhat’sthemore

ambitiousthingthatthestudentisdoingingettingthetwodegrees?Iunderstand

thatwiththehourswehave,it’sveryambitious.Butnow,what’sthemore

ambitiousthing?

Simet:Wesee—IthinkmostpeopleseeaBachelorofScienceforexample,asa

morerigorousdegreethanaBachelorofArts.Certainlyinourdepartment,there

areadditionalcourses.It’slongerbysixhours.Thereareallkindsofarguments

thattheB.S.isamorerigorousdegree,andyetunderthetermsofthis,youcan

gettwoB.S.’smoreeasilythanaB.S.andaB.A.Wethinkthat’sbackwards.So

thatwasoneofthejustifications.

Swan:SoyourB.S.studentwillnowbeabletoalsogetaB.A.fordoingnothing

else?Justputtingittogether?

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Simet:Well,ifthey’vecompletedtherequirementsforthatB.A.—nowtheycan’t

doitinourdepartment.TheoneweseemostoftenisaB.S.inBiologyandBAin

Chemistry.Sotheyhavetocompletetherequirementsforboth.Theydon’tget

offthehookforthat.Butwithdoublecountingandwithoverlapofcourses,it’s

nowpossibletofinishapairofdegreesandstillbewithinthe126hours.Sowe

don’tseethatthere’sajustificationfor32additionalhours,whichwouldn’teven

beinthosetwodisciplines.

Swan:Rightnowyousaidit’seasiertogettwoB.S.’sortwoB.A.’sandyou’rejust

tryingto…Isee.

Zeitz:Whatyou’resayingisthatyou’redoubledippingontheLACs?Onthe

LiberalArtsCourses?

Simet:Moststudentsalreadydothatifthey’redoingadoublemajororadouble

degree.This32-hoursisadditionaltoeverythingthat’salreadyproscribedto

them--theLACandalltherequirementsfortheirtwodegrees.Theycanstilldo

thatinunder126hours.Sowedon’tseeajustificationforanother32.

Zeitz:Iagreewithyou.IjustwanttomakesureIunderstand.Campbell:Ira,didyoulookbacktothetimewhenwefirstapprovedtheB.S.

degreetoseeiftherewasanythingfromthattimewhichreferredtowhyitwas

putin?

Simet:AllofthedocumentsthatIcouldfindabouttheB.S.werestrictlyfocused

ontheB.S.anddidn’tevenaddressthepossibilityofthistypeofdoubledegree.I

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thinkthenotionatthetimewasthatstudentswouldsubstituteaB.S.foraB.A.,

sotheycouldaccessthemorerigorouscurriculum,andsothere’snotalkabout

thisatall.

Campbell:ButthatwasinthecatalogimmediatelyaftertheB.S.wasapproved?Simet:Thewordingofthisdidnotappearinthecatalogforawhile,ormaybe

Diane(Wallace)cancorrectmeonthat.Theformalwordingdidn’tshowupuntil

recently.Itwasapolicy,butitwasn’tformalizeduntilrecently,whenanumberof

studentswhowereseekingtodoitbegantogrow.Then…

Dhanwada:Ijustwanttosaythatthisisactuallyimpactingalotofstudents,and

it’sprohibitingthemfromcompleting,becausetheyarealmostdone,ortheyare

done,andbecausetheyhavetodotheadditional32hourstogetanotherdegree

whichisgoodforthemastheymoveforward,theyarenowchoosingnotto,

becauseit’sgoingtotakethemanextrayear.Thisisinfavorofstudentsaswell.

Studentsareforegoinganentiredegreebecausewe’reaskingthemtodo32

additionalcredits.

Walter:Imovethatweputtheproposaltoavoteimmediately.Gould:IthasbeenmovedbyVice-ChairWalter,andsecondedbySenatorPike

thatwevoteontheproposaltoeliminatetheadditional32-hourcredit

requirementforundergraduatesseekingaconcurrentundergraduatedouble

degree.Allinfavor,pleasesay“aye,”allopposed,“nay,”abstain,“aye.”Motion

passes.MayIhaveamotiontoadjourn?SomovedbySenatorBurnight.

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RespectfullySubmitted,KathySundstedtAdministrativeAssistant/TranscriptionistUNIFacultySenate