T5 B64 GAO Visa Docs 1 of 6 Fdr- 1-15-03 GAO Conference Re INS- Visa Revocation- Lookout- Condor 105

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11 Law Enforcement Privacy

a . . a .Prepared by: Kate BrentzelDate Prepared: January 16, 2003Reviewed by: Type reviewer name here

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Record of interviewTitle INS: Revocation Process, Lookout Unit, and Efforts to Track

the "Condor 105"Contact Method In-person interview

Contact Place GAO secure conference room

Contact Date _January 15, 2003INSJ {Assistant Inspector, Lookout UnitTim Gover. Director. Carrier Affairs Office

I I InvestigationsJim Hayes, InvestigationsDan Brown, Attorney Liaison

GAP LAT: John Brummet, Judy McCloskey, Kate Brentzel, AnnUlrich. DCM: Steve Caldwell, Gabrielle Anderson. TAJ: RichStana. OGC: Nancy Finley, Mary Moutsos

Participants

Comments/Remarks:

IN S Revocation Process

iW e askedl jfor an explanation of how IN S handles visa revocations once it receivesnotification from the State Department.! Isaid that once the lookout unit receives a visarevocation certificate from State — whether it is received by fax, cable or regular mail — it has apolicy to input that information into its internal lookout database, NAILS, within 24 hours.

The"Condor 105"

asked|_ J when the lookout unit had received revocation certificates for the "Condor105". She said that while she puts all revocations into the systern as soon as she receives them, shewa$ not in a position to confirm or deny the lookout unit's receipt of these 105 revocations becauseshe\did not know which names the "Condor 105" referred to. She did not receive a list of thesenarries until December 16, 2002, when State Department finally sent her a list of names. However,the list did not contain 105 names; it contained 46 names. We showed! la list of the 105nam^s that State had mailed to us on October 7, 2002. She examined the list and compared it to thelist of 46 that she had received on December 16. She said that the list of 46 appeared to be culled

from the longer list of 105.

W hen|_ Jreceived the list of 46 names, she researched the names to see if they were in INS'lookout database. She learned that of the 46 names, INS had only received revocation certificateson 39 of them; she did not have revocation certificates on file for seven individuals. She hadentered revocations for 38 of them because one record was a "FNU" (first name unknown). As ofJanuary 16, 2003, she still has yet to receive a revocation certificate from State for one individual.

Page 1 Record of Interview



9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

Prepared by: Kate BrentzelDate Prepared: January 16, 2003Reviewed b y: Type reviewer name here

Index: Type bundle index hereDOC Number: Type document number here

DOC Library: Type library name hereJo b Code: Type job code here

L jalso checked to see if any of the 46 on State's list had entered the United States prior toreceiving their revocation certificates/She said that seven of the 46 had entered the country priorto having their visas revoked. She informed! L IN S Investigation, of these individuals.

IN S investigations

L Jcqnfirmed that seven (or six?) of the 46 had entered the United States before theirrevocations took effect and that he sent out "leads" to investigate the individuals and to make surethat they Vere not violating the terms of their visas. He said that if they have not violated the termsof their vis&s, INS could hot do anything to remove them.

L Jsaid that when INS receives notice of prudential revocations from State, the revocationcertificate cites the section of the IN A for which the visa is being revoked but that citation does notlet INS khow hdw "bad" the visa hplder is. She said that sometimes State just wants to make theapplicant return to the issuing post in order to collect more information on him. She said that,based on the information it receives frpm State, INS does not have a way of knowing how seriousthe case is. I [agreed that it is difficult for INS to know if it should investigate a certainrevocation case because INS receiyes notice of so many revocations. He said that INS would likeState to send more specific information on revocation cases so that INS would know how serious athreat th e person is . ,

L _|said that if IN S learns that a revocatioh is based in TIPOFF information, then that is anindication to INS that there has been serious information developed on that person and INS wouldact immediately on the base by sending out JTTF agents. In the case of the seven Condorindividuals who had already entered the U.S..] Jsaid that they were not TIPOFF cases.However, because of congressional interest in the matter.P Hsent out "urgent leads" on

these seven people. Otherwise, he may not have dedicated the resources to tracking these people.

Seven are in the United States

M r. Hayes said that two of these individuals hold Fl student visas; one holds a Jl exchange visitorvisa; and 4 have B2 visitor visas. There are no departure records for any of them. The four whoare here on B2 visas could be removable because they have already overstayed their allowedlengths of stay. For the other individuals, INS could remove them if they had evidence of themdoing something to violate the terms of their visas or something illegal. A visa revocationcertificate is notgrounds fo r removal.

M r. Hayes said that investigators in the field have a "call up" date of January 28 - the day that theyhave to send information on these individuals back to headquarters. The INS investigatorsassigned to the job are JTTF agents, who can coordinate their efforts with FBI if need be.

CLASS- IBIS Link

When the GAO team met with State, we were told that as soon as a visa revocation certificate wasissued, the revocation was also entered into CLASS.I jsaid that although there is a real-

R e c o r d o f In te rv iew



9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

Prepared by : Kate BrentzelDate Prepared: January 16, 2003Reviewed by: Type reviewer name here

Index: Type bundle index hereDO C Number: Type document number here

DO C Library: Type library name hereJob Code: Type job code here

feed from CLASS to IBIS, INS' main lookout database is NAILS..She said that INS inspectorsat ihe ports of entry are able to access NAILSif IBIS is down.

WhehlyT ^researched the 46 individuals on the list from State, she found the INS lookoutson all 46 but she did not Find State's entries on them except for 5 of the 46. She noted that severalhad been entered after GAO wrote its Border Security: Visa Process Should be Strengthenedreport. She said that INS had refused entry to three of the 46 only because INS had entered alookout (into'JSfAILS?sh e didn't if it was NAILSor IBIS).

Follow-up

Follow-up with'L Jand Tim Goyer once we have received names and biographicdata from State. Examine faxed visa revocation certificates; IBIS and NAILS records.Follow-up with! land Jim Hayes after January 28 to learn more about the

investigations of the seven Condor cases who are here in the U.S.

Page 3 Record of Interview

Documents

T5 B64 GAO Visa Docs 1 of 6 Fdr- 1-15-03 GAO Conference Re INS- Visa Revocation- Lookout- Condor 105