T3 B1 EOP- Press Interviews of Staff Fdr- Internal Transcript- 8-22-02 Pelley Interview of Joe Hagin 954

8/14/2019 T3 B1 EOP- Press Interviews of Staff Fdr- Internal Transcript- 8-22-02 Pelley Interview of Joe Hagin 954

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RECE IVEDTHE WHITE HOUSE

M A Y 2 2 Z 0 0 3Office of the Press Secretary(Crawford, Texas) National Commission onTerrorist Attacks

Internal Transcript Au gus t 22, 2002INTERVIEW OF JOE HAGINBY SCOTT PELLEY, CBS

Hilton HotelPortland, Oregon

8:05 P.M. PDTQ September 12th, at the Pentagon . T he President arr ives there. Paint that picture

for me. W h a t was that scene l ike? ~MR. HAGIN: Well , there wereQ He's probably, never in his l i fe , seen anyth ing l ike that .M R. HAGIN: No, I don' t th ink any of us had seen any th ing l ike tha t . There was the big,gaping hole in the bui ld ing , hundreds of rescuers wai t ing for h i m .Word had filtered through we had tried to keep it fairly quiet for security reasons. Butword had f i l tered among the rescuers that he was coming, and there was a lot of exci tement,

real ly . I th ink i t was a n ice , t em porary break from th e terr ible jo b that they were doing.A nd they had l ined up, several hun dre d yards ' wo rth of people in a l ine , no ropes l ike w e

normal ly have, just there, and everybod y rem aine d in place. And he got out of the car andimmed ia te ly we nt over to the first rescuers and mi l i t a ry off icers who w ere there and star tedshaking hands and thank ing everyone. And i t was tough, emotionally. You could see it on al l ofour faces , I think.

And Secre ta ry R um sfe ld was with him and going a round wi th hi m , but the President wasreal ly con n ec t i n g wi th the rescuers . And i t was a tough t ime because , w h i l e w e were there , theywere still br ing ing bodies ou t . They had rescue teams w ho were recover ing th e bodies and amorgue team w ould br ing them ou t .

A nd throughout our visi t to the Pen tagon and in New York , one of our gu id in g principleswas, we did not w a n t to go in and do a ny th i ng to disrupt th e rescue operat ion. The President fel tvery s trongly about it . And those orders we nt out loud and clear t ha t we were not to hinde ranything that was going on if there was the poss ib i l i ty of sti l l s av in g a l i f e .

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So i t was a tough scene. There w a s t h a t smell t h a t everybody ta lks about that w as allaround A r l i n g t o n and the P e n t a g o n . And i t was a somber scene. There wa s no t I don ' t recallth e w i l d c h a n t i n g a nd applause t h a t there was in New York City.A nd not long af ter we got the re , th e firefighters f r o m A r l i n g t o n w ho were on the roof o f

th e Pentagon unfur led th e g i a n t A m e r i c a n f lag over the s ide near where the impac t po in t h adbeen, and that was very u p l i f t i n g , I t h i n k , to everyone. And emotional . And the crowd sor t ofcheered.

And then there w as another less famous picture where three or four guys actually put aflag on the roof of the Pentagon t ha t was on a f lag pole. But it was a great sort of defiant s ign.

Q The President is ta lking to rescue workers and they're talking to h i m . What'sbeing sa id in those conversat ion s?MR. HAGIN: He told everyone how much he appreciated what they were doing and heunders tood it was tough , tough w ork and jus t thank ed everybody . H e w a s effus ive in his praise

and , you know , I th ink t r ied to make them feel tha t he unders tood how tough w ha t they w erego ing th rough was . An d, you know, he was ob v ious ly t ry ing to lift people's spirits, and it did.Q W h a t w e r e t hey s a y i n g t o h i m ?M R . HAG IN: T hey were , for the most par t , pret ty quie t . Th ey tha nke d him in return andsaid, you kno w , you ' re doin g a great job. And qu ite a few people w ere sa ying, you know , le t 's goget these guy s who did this . There w as a lo t of spir i t , but i t was very subdued.Q Leap ing ahead , w ha t was the scene l ike a t Ground Zero? Certa inly te levis io ndoes not do tha t scene jus t ice . A nd w h e n th e Pres iden t rol led up to it in the motorcade, i t m u s t

h a v e been very s tr iking.M R . H A G I N : I t was very s t r iking. T he first I s h o u l d sa y t h a t n o t h i n g t h a t I ever sawon TV or any still photograph or ac tua l ly any written word comes close to being able to show ordescribe the scene tha t we found there. I t was so much more mass ive and ex ten s ive than youcould grasp f rom te lev is ion . I t was rea l ly b rea th t ak ing .T he first s top he mad e w as a t 7 W orld Trade Center , w hic h w as w here the Secret Service

had been he adqu artered in New York City . And he wa s able there to get pret ty close to therubble pile, as they called it .Both places w e w e n t w e ac tua l ly s topped a t two places , this was the f irs t s top. And i twas i t wa s w h e r e y o u could a lmost reach ou t and touch the mass ive beams t h a t were twis ted .There w as a bus r ight across the s treet , a New York C ity Transi t bus , I wou ld imagin e. All tha tw a s left of i t w as the f r a m e and a glob where the e n g i n e ha d been, jus t mel ted. A nd they to ld us

tha t cars ha d been i g n i t i n g three, fou r blocks aw ay from w here w e were from the in i t i a l heat .The street w as c a v e d in, I t h i n k d o w n i n t o a par t of the s u b w a y .

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And i t was really sobering. Not a lot be ing sa id at the t ime . W e were w i t h GovernorPatak i and Ma y o r G i u l i a n i , Senator C l i n t o n w as there w i t h us , a couple members of Congress,the fire commissioner and the police commissioner. A nd people w ere pret ty qu iet for a whi le ,j u s t dr i nk i ng it all in.

Q Did the President express shock at al l? Did he say MR . HA GIN : I don' t remember his exact words . He was clearly amazed an d moved by

j u s t how mass ive it wa s . And , of course , on tha t Friday , you c o u ld st i ll smell the smells , youcould almost tas te t ha t there w as st i ll dus t in the air , s t i l l smoke. Y ou could tell there w ere firesstill burning below th e rubble pile, a n d w e were pretty close to tha t on the first stop.Then w e moved to the area where th e construct ion workers were. The first stop, there

really wasn' t anyone there . I t was a fairly isolated corner, street corner that w e w e n t to , aga in , sotha t everyone could see up close the rubble pile.

We got back into the motorcade and went a few blocks to an area where most of the TVnetworks were showing th e site of the top of the b u i l d i n g tha t h ad fallen over and driven itselfin to th e ground. W e were farther f rom th e rubble pi le at t ha t poin t , farther f rom Groun d Zero,bu t had a mu ch more panoramic v iew. A n d that 's where th e construct ion workers wereassembled and the f i ref ighters . A n d w e stopped a t I t h ink i t was the New York Fire DepartmentC o m m a n d Post 10 and w e n t in .

And i t was in te res t ing , as there were some very sen ior chiefs, Fire Department chiefs intha t tent . A n d w hen th ey looked up and saw the President , they ju s t dissolved into tears. I t h inkh is presence w as s o me wha t of a relief to a lot of people, and i t ju s t created we saw i t wi th th eguys, the cons t ruc tion w orkers and the f irefighters do wn whe re th e President used th e bul lhorn toaddress the crowd. So it wa s very emo tional.

On the one h a n d , you w o u l d h a v e people s h o u t i n g , "U.S.A., U .S.A.," .and others w h ow o ul d j u s t we e p whe n he came by. It wa s a real tug of war on your emotions . A n d then therewere those w ho were c h a n t i n g "U.S.A." an d cry ing at the same t ime. I t was very movin g an dvery e mo t i o na l and for the Presid ent -- for any Pres ident, whose movem ents are rela t ively sterilein terms of the b u b b l e . W e were surround ed on all sides by masses of people. It was an u n u s u a lposition for us to be i n .

And I t h ink he you could see him draw ing s t reng th f rom i t and the people from him .Q He wa de d i n t o the c rowd .M R . HAGIN: H e waded in to th e crowd.Q Mu c h mo re t han th e Secret Service w o u l d have l iked. Thi s su dden ly became

any W h i t e House is very scripted in all of its event s , any W hi t e Hous e is . But t h i s s ud de n lybecame very un scr ip ted.

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M R . HAGIN: Rig h t . The President had just decided on Thursday that he was going togo on Friday. We had less than 24 hours to go up and put tha t vis i t together, just in the l i f e of aPresident , jus t very shor t t im e. W e no rm al ly spend seven to 10 days working on a tr ip l ike that ,and so i t was re l a t iv e ly unsc r ip ted to begin wi t h , but i t became much more so as we movedaround the ci ty .

Q How did you f ind ou t that he was going to go to New York that day?M R. HAGIN: Andy Card and I had been having a discuss ion that morning about wh enhe should go. A nd the President h ad indicated that I t h ink he was th i nk ing about going over th e

weekend. And I was arguing tha t w e needed more t ime to put the trip together and may b eMonday wou ld be a good day. And we sort of ended th e conversation withou t coming to adecision.

The President was hav ing a conversat ion with Governor Pataki and M a y o r Giuliani onl i ve TV and I bel ieve it was the Mayor w ho said , w e hope we see you up here soon, sir. He said,I'll be there tomorrow. W e were surprised.

Q Y o u th ou g h t wh a t ?M R. HAGIN: Thou ght th is w as going to be tougher than w e imag ined . It was clear ly animpor t an t tr ip and, as usu al , the President had m ade the right ca l l . In retrospect, w e didn't need

al l that mu c h t ime to put i t together . T he ci ty needed him to go up there and the country neededto see him there.Q M oving on to the Jav i t s Cen ter , pa in t that pictu re for m e. As you entered theroom with the President, you see a few hundred people.M R . HAGIN: Yes, I t h ink there were 300 people in the room. The fire and pol ice unio nshad helped put together a representat ive group of f ami l i e s of f i ref ighters and pol icemen w howere ei ther m issing or were a l read y conf i rmed dead. And w e had gone to the Jav i ts Center.The Pres ident went around and thanked the FEMA urban search and rescue t eams whowere a lso working out of the Jav i ts Center , headquar tered out of the Jav i t s Cen ter . And we lef t

that even t and were w alk ing towards th e room wh ere th is event w i t h the f ami l i e s w as going tobe.The President turned to us and sa id , I don ' t w a n t any press in this room, and we don'tneed any elected off icia ls other than th e Governor and the Mayor , and I don ' t wan t a lot of staff

h an g in g around. He knew he wa nted th is to be a personal appearance w itho ut an entourage.And I th ink I t h i nk he k n ew how tough i t was going to be, and i t was very tough.And the fam il ies were c lear ly g lad to see him . They were mov ed by him being there and

the Pres iden t and we were al l m o v e d by t he i r presence. And i t was pret ty somber , and therewere am az in g momen t s t h r ou g h ou t . W e were schedu led I t h ink th e President w as scheduled to

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s tay for 20 or 30 m i n u te s m a x i m u m . I be l i eve he lef t th e room an h o u r and 45 m i n u t e s after hew e n t in . We' re n o t u s u a l l y o ff schedule b y m u c h .A n d h e j u s t w o u l d n ' t o r couldn ' t l eave th e room u n t i l t h e y h ad t o u c h e d e v e r y b o d y in theroom and there were a lot of tears and a lot of l a u g h t e r . He a lmos t m in i s te red to each f am i ly asthey seemed to require it. If they wanted to l a u g h , he l aughed . I t w as tough , r ea l ly tough .Q Di d a n y o n e on the staff s a y , M r. Pres iden t , we're r u n n i n g r e a l ly l a t e?M R . H A G I N : W e gave him a few opt ions t o l eave t h r o u g h o u t th e t ime , and i t was cleartha t h e wasn ' t go ing to leave. W e backed off . H e w a s going f rom there to the hel icopter to go toth e airport and t h e n on to Camp David . S o w e h ad t ime , we had the f lexib i l i ty . A nd there were alot of staff and support people and Secret Service who l i t e ra l ly couldn ' t s tay in the room thew ho le t ime . I t was jus t too emot iona l fo r them.An d h e w as very s trong and I've been do ing th i s for a l ong t ime and I 've never o fcourse, none of us have ever experi enced an y th ing l i ke September 11th. But in terms of being

around Presidents , i t was a rem arkab le couple of hours . Q Okay, g ive m e a sense of the W h i t e Ho use operat ion th at we ek. Th e demeanorand the f e e l i n g of the place was the sense tha t Sep tember 11th happened and i t was over and thethreat was done? Or was the sense the rest of the week t ha t t h e W h i t e H o u s e could be a targ et a tany t ime, that th e attack might not be over?M R . H A G I N : W el l , we had to i t was i n c u m b e n t on us to t a k e p r e c a u t i o n s , to preven tan attack that day or a week or a mo nth f rom September 11th . So the people t h a t I work w i thwh o a re ex t rao rd ina ry p ro fess iona l s , the Secre t S erv i ce , the m i l i t a r y , people a t the Wh i te Houseare an a m a z i n g g ro u p and everybody per fo rmed so a d m i r a b l y d u r i n g t h a t w h o l e t im e a n d , to th i s

day , are sti l l doing so . B u t , no , we had a job to do . W e t a k e th e w h o l e c o n t i n u i t y o f governmentissue very ser iously . W e d id prior to September 11 th .But they went to w o r k , th e Secret Service and the mil i ta ry , do ing w ha t they needed to doto ensure t ha t th e Pres iden t w as safe, t h a t th e staff w as safe, and t h a t th e programs were in placeto e n s u r e the c o n t i n u i t y o f g o v e r n m e n t . So , no , we t oo k n o t h i n g fo r g r a n t e d . W e p l a n n e d for theworst case scenar ios , because that ' s what w e h a v e t o do .Q W h a t if t h i s is a w i ld c a r d q u e s t i o n . W h a t , if a n y t h i n g ,did the Pres iden t say toyo u tha t helped y o u s tay o n k e e l , t h a t helped y o u k e e p y o u r h e a d w h e r e it s h o u l d be?M R . H A G I N : I t h i n k w i t h th i s ann iversa ry , a l o t o f us have ta lked and we looked backon i t , and h is in ne r s treng th was so ob vious to all of us tha t , w hen w e w ould ha ve an emot iona lm o m e n t o r w a n t t o s a y , w h y u s , w h y n o w , w h y d i d t h i s h a v e t o h a p p e n , h e w a s a l w a y s lo o k in gfo rwa rd . You k n o w , h e d idn ' t dw el l o n w h a t h ad happened o n S ep tem ber 11th a lo t . I t was l i ke ,w h a t d o w e need to do to move fo rward . A n d I t h i n k t h a t helped everybody on the staff.

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And he we nt out of his way to pat people on the back and give people a hug and I th inkw e al l learned a lot from th e s trength that he showed and the resolve tha t he showed. Yes , hew as emo tional , we were em otion al . But people real ized i t was a very ser ious job to do and theywent about doing it . No regrets , no looking back.We are blessed w e pol i t i c i ans w ho come in and occupy th e White House for a short

amount of t ime are real ly blessed with the career folks . An d, ag ain, the mil i ta ry and the SecretService and the crew of Air Force One. I had so m uc h c onf idenc e .I have been asked so ma ny t imes , were you worried about th e Pres ident? A n d m y

response really i s , ho nes t ly, no, I wasn ' t , because of the profess ional ism of the people tha tsupport the Pres idency, w ho are there between -- you kn ow , ad m inis tra t ions come and go butthese people have been doing this for a long t ime and they're very good at it. Once I k new hew as on Air Force One, I was real comfortable that thin gs were going to be okay.Q Ter r if ic . Th ank you very , very , very mu ch.

END8:30 P.M. PDT

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T3 B1 EOP- Press Interviews of Staff Fdr- Internal Transcript- 8-22-02 Pelley Interview of Joe Hagin 954