SPI 232 How Lucas Hall Built and Sold an “Ultimate ... · Show NoteS: 1 Announcer: This is the Smart Passive Income Podcast with Pat Flynn, Session Number 232

Show NoteS: http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/session232

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SPI 232

How Lucas HallBuilt and Sold an “Ultimate Resource” Blog

September 21, 2016

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/

http://smartpassiveincome.com/session232


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Announcer: ThisistheSmartPassiveIncomePodcastwithPatFlynn,Session

Number232.Herewego.

WelcometotheSmartPassiveIncomePodcast,whereit’sallabout

workinghardnow,soyoucansitbackandreapthebenefitslater,

andnowyourhost.Hespent2-1/2yoursreelinginayellowfintuna,

PatFlynn.

Pat: What’sup,everybody?Thankyousomuchforbeinghere,seriously,

andtakingtimeoutofyourday.Ifthisisyourfirsttimelistening

in,welcome,andpleasesubscribe,becausewe’vegotalotof

greatcontentcoming.Ifyou’recomingbacktotheshow,thank

you,becauseyouguysarewhatkeepmegoingforsure.Keepthe

commentscoming,keepthewordsofencouragementcoming,and

keepthesuggestionscomingforgueststoo.

Thispersonontheshowtodaywasactuallysuggestedtobea

guestandwithouthimknowingthatheactuallyreachedouttome

too,becausehehadagreatsuccessstorytoshare,soIwantedto

bringhimon.Actually,we’vebeenincontactwitheachotherfora

numberofyearsnow.

I’mreallyexcitedtointroduceLucasHall,fromLandlordology.com,

whichhasareallyinterestingstoryabouthowhebuiltthesiteto

becomeanultimateresourceforlandlordsoutthere,whichI’m

actuallygettingreallyinterestedin,becauseinadditiontobuilding

myonlinebusiness,I’mgoingtobestartingtobuildarealestate

portfolioovertheyearshere.I’llprobablybetalkingaboutthaton

theblogtoo,sincethatispassiveincomeinanyway,obviously.

Landlordologyhasbecomeofbiginteresttome,andLucasHallis

theman,andwe’regoingtotalkabouthowheactuallybuiltthat

siteandhowhewasapproachedforthepurchaseofthesite,and

hedidsellit.We’regoingtotalkallaboutthat,andwe’regoing

togetrightintoitrightnow,aswellassometipsforhowyoucan

buildwhatweliketocalltheultimateresourceinaparticularniche,

soherewego.Lucas,what’sup?WelcometotheSmartPassive

IncomePodcast.Thankyousomuchforbeinghere.




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Lucas: Hi,Pat.Thanksforhavingme.It’sapleasure.

Pat: Thisisgoingtobereallyfun.Ihavespokentoyoubeforeabout

yourstory,butI’mpersonallyexcitedtogetintothedeepdetailsof

it.Beforewegetstarted,ifsomebodyweretoaskyou,“Lucas,what

doyoudo,”whatisitthatyoudorightnow?

Lucas: MyofficialtitleisChiefLandlordologistatCozy,andthatisafun

titlethatwewereabletomakeupourselves.Thatdoesn’thappen

awholelot,butessentiallywhatthatmeansisIgiverentaladvice

andhelpothersbemoreprofitableandrunabetterrentalproperty

business.ThatstartedoutwithasitecalledLandlordology,that

wasaresourcethatIcreatedjustoutaneedformyselftolearn.I

thoughtIcoulddumpmyinformationandwhatIwaslearning,and

howIwasproceedingthroughmybusiness,Icouldtakethatand

turnthatintoanultimateresource.

RightnowwhatI’mdoingisI’mworkingatCozy,andCozyisthe

companybehindLandlordology,andwemakerentalproperty

softwareforlandlords.Notonlydoweteachthemhowtobebetter,

butwealsogivethemthetoolstodoit.

Pat: Thisisverycool,soyoustartedwithLandlordologyanditwasjust

apersonalsitethatyouhad,thatyouwerejustsharingtipsonand

whatnot,thingsthatyouwerelearningalongtheway?

Lucas: Itwas.Itcameoutofmyfrustrationwithalackofresourcesout

theretoanswerthequestionsthatIhad.Iwasgettingstartedas

alandlordandmystoryisthatIwasworkingasagovernment

contractorandthenonthesideIwasbuildingupaportfolioof

rentalproperties.Iactuallyoriginallybroughtmyfirstrentalproperty

toimpressagirl.Ilikedher.Imether.Iwouldseeheronceaweek

orso,andIaskedheronedayhowshewasdoingandwhatshedid

lastweek,andshegoes,“Oh,Iboughtahouse.”

Ithought,“Oh,my,gosh,she’ssmartandpretty,andIwantto

gettoknowherbetter,”soIdidthenextlogicalthing.Ijusthired

arealestateagentandsaid,“Iwanttogobuyahouseinher




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neighborhoodthat’salittlebitbiggerthanhers,andIwanttobe

abletowalktoherhouse.”

Pat: Thisisamazing.

Lucas: Idid,andweboughtahouseinherneighborhood.Itwas7blocks

awayandnextthingyouknowweweredating,andthenshortly

thereafter,3yearslater,wegotmarried.

Pat: Wow,areyouserious?

Lucas: Yeah,sheturnedintomywifeandwehaveabeautifullittlebabygirl.

Pat: Ididn’tknowifthiswasgoingtoworkoutofnot,becausethat’s

kindofweird,but,dude,that’s…Wow,congratulations,sonowyou

guysbothhaverentalproperties,Iguesstogether?

Lucas: Wedo.Iliketosaythatifdiamondsareagirl’sbestfriend,real

estateisaclosesecond.

Pat: Oh,man,Lucas,Iloveyouevenmorerightnow.Thisissofunny.

Anyway,asyouwerebuildingyourrealestatebusinessand

managingyourportfolios,justtryingtolearnthespace,youcreated

Landlordology.comafterthat,andwhatplatformdidyoucreateit

on?WasitjustaWordPressblog?

Lucas: Itwas.IwentandgotaWordPressthemefromStudioPress,and

lovedthembecausetheyhadagreatSEOoptimizationplatform

andIthoughtWordPressisgreat.YouknowWordPress,anditjust

runsitselfinalotofways.

Pat: Forthatparticularsite,whendidyoustarttoseetractiononthat

site,abouthowlongafteryoustartedit?

Lucas: Ittookabout2months.IrememberthenightswhereI’dgotobed

andcheckmystatsrightbeforeandI’dlookatmywifeandI’dsay,

“Igot7visitorstoday,”anditwassoexciting.Shortlythereafterit

startedmultiplyinganditwasroughlyabouta30%month-over-

monthgrowth,andIhadstartedseeingsomerealpublicityand




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sometractionjustafewmonthsin.Itwasgettingtothepoint,about

ayearintoit,thatIwasdumpingqualitycontentasfastasIcan,and

thatwasroughlyabout2to3timesaweek.Iwasjustwritingabout

myexperiencesandmakingrelationships,butitstartedbecoming

somethingthatIcouldn’tdojustonthesideanymore.

It’sverytimeconsuming;youknowthat,andbloggingandwriting,

todoitwell,ittakesalotoftime.Iwasdoingitatnightanddoing

afull-timejobduringtheday.Aboutthattime,Istartedbeing

contactedbylargercompaniesandtheystartedtakingnotice,one

ofwhichwasacompanycalledCozy.Atthetime,theyweren’tvery

large.TheywereactuallyjuststartingoutaroundthesametimeI

was,andwhattheyweredoingwasjustmakingrentalsoftwareand

theyweregivingitawayforfree.

Theywereactuallytryingtohelpimprovethelandlord/tenant

relationshipthroughsoftware,andIwastryingtodoitthrough

content.Ireallyjusthadahearttoeducateandteachpeoplehowto

bebetter,becauseIthoughtthelandlord/tenantrelationship,andI

probablyspeakforalotofpeoplewhohaveeverrentedbefore,just

wasverybroken,justwashurtingandthereneededtobesomething

outthere.TheyweredoingwhatIwasdoing,justtheywere

deliveringitdifferentlyanditjustmadesensetopartnerup,and

thenweworkedthroughanacquisitionwheretheytookpossession

ofalloftheassetsandIjumpedonboardwithCozyasafull-time

employeeandhavecontinuedtopressourmissioneversince.

Pat: Yeah,that’sreallycool.I’dlovetogetmoreintothatacquisition

story,butbeforethat,let’stalkalittlebitmoreaboutLandlordology.

I’mstillcurioustoknow,yousaid2monthsafteryou’dstartedit,

youstartedtogainalittlebitoftraction.Howwouldyoudefine

“traction,”andalsohowdiditreallyhappen?Wasitjustorganic,or

wereyouguestposting?Whatwereyourtrafficbuildingstrategies

atthatpoint?

Lucas: Iwasnewtocontentmarketing,completelynew,andsoIdidn’t

knowalotofthestrategiesoutthere,butwhatIdidknowwasthat

ifIproducedqualitycontent,shareablecontent,thingsthatpeople




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reallywantedtoreadandtheyactuallylearnedsomethingfrom,I

hadahunchthatGooglewouldrewardthat,andthatGooglewould

putthatonthefirstpage.Iwasstartingtogetjustgeneral,organic

SEOtraffic,andIhitthenailonthehead.IfIputsomethingout

therethatpeoplewouldwanttoread,thenGooglewouldputitup-

front,andthat’sexactlywhathappened.

Ninety-sevenpercentofmytrafficbackthenwasorganicandeven

nowit’sinthe90s.It’salittlelower,butitwasallorganicandwhen

youwouldsearchforsomethinglike“renters,”Iwouldberight

there.Iwascompetingwithsomeofthelargestcompaniesout

there,evenlegalwebsitesthatweregivinglegitimatelegaladvice.

Iwasn’talawyer,anattorney,Iwasjustalandlordsharingmy

experiences,butpeoplelovedit.

Pat: That’sreallycool.Ithinkpeopleloveitalsobecauseyou’recoming

fromtheperspectiveofsomebodyjustlikethem.They’relooking

forinformationandtheyfinditfromsomebodywhoismaybejust

alittlebitfurtheraheadthantheyare.Ithinkthisreallyspeaksto

thefactthatwedon’tnecessarilyhavetohavethatdegreeorbea

completeexpertinordertotrulyhelppeopleandgaintractionin

whatevernichewe’retryingtogetintoandprovidevaluefor,right?

Lucas: That’sright,andoneofthequotes,Idon’tknowifyoumadethis

uporifitwassomethingthatyouheard,but“Therichesareinthe

niches.”ItookthatandIappliedittoLandlordology,andIthought,

“Well,whatcouldIdothatwasdifferent?WhatcouldIdoabout

thesitethatwasunique,towheresomebodywouldwanttocome

back?”Ilookedaround,andoneofthestrugglesIhadasagrowing

landlordwasthatIcouldn’tfindthestatelawsthatIneededtoknow

inordertobeincompliancewiththerequirements.

WhatIdidis,Isaid,“I’mgoingtogodownthisroad,”ofoncea

weekIwouldresearchthestatelawsandthestatutesforallofthe

statesinthecountry,andIwouldlookattheactualstatutes,boring

legallanguage.IwouldreadthroughthemandIwouldsummarize

themintoaneasy-to-readmaybe2-pager,blah,blah,blah,

approximately1000words,andIwouldlinktothestatutes.




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Thereweredozensofothersitesouttherethatclaimedthatthey

arepostingasummaryofthelegalguidesorwhatthelawswere

aboutsecuritydepositsandsuch,butnoneofthemeverlinked

totheactualstatutes.Thestatuteswouldupdateandtheywould

change,andyouneverreallyknewhowupdatedtheinformation

was,sotherewasnoqualitycontrol.Ithought,“Well,let’sjustlinkto

itandmakeadefinitiveresource.Let’sputsomethingouttherethat

nooneelsehas.”Sureenough,tothisdaythosestatelawsummary

pagesarestillthenumberonesourceoftrafficthatIget,andthat’s

3yearslater.

Pat: Ilovethat.Basically,whatyoudidwasyoucreatedwhatIliketocall

“anultimateresource,”foraparticularaudiencetype.I’vedonethis

beforeonSecurityGuardTrainingHQ.com.It’sinterestingbecause

it’sverysimilarinthefactthatIhadfoundduringmyresearchwhile

buildingthatlittlenichesiteforsecurityguards,thateverystatehad

adifferentsetofrequirementstobecomeasecurityguard.

Atfirst,Ithinkalotofpeoplearegoingtoreactinasimilarway

whenthencomeacrosslike,“Oh,man,there’s50differentthings

Ihavetodo,andit’sgoingtobealotofwork.Idon’tknowifI

wanttodothisanymore,”whereasyou,andthenwithme,with

SecurityGuardTrainingHG.com,wewerelike,“Okay,thisisan

opportunitytoactuallybuildsomethingusefulthatwillbeextremely

helpfulforpeopleandactuallyturnthewebsiteintosomethingthat

becomesthe1-stopshopnomatterwhereyou’reat.”

That’sexactlywhatyoudid.Ilovethatapproach.Couldyoutalk

moreabouthowLandlordologyisthatsortofultimateresource?

Again,allofthisinformationisfreeoutthere,right?Itwasn’t

behindamembershipsiteorapaywalloranything,right?Itwas

completelyfreeforeverybody?

Lucas: You’reright,yeah,itwascompletelyfree.MyintentwhenIfirst

createditwas,“Hey,I’llputasmuchasIpossiblycan.I’llgiveaway

allofthebeststuff.”ThenIhadplansatsomepointtostartramping

uptheaffiliaterelationshipsandmaybeevendosomeadvertising

andgeneratingcourses,butbeforeIcouldgettothatCozycame




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alongandsaid,“Well,hey,let’sjustacquireyouandthenyou’llbe

theeducationaldivisionofCozy.”Eversincethen,it’salwaysbeen

free,everythingwe’vedone.We’veactuallynowhadtheresources

toputoutevenbettercontentthanIcouldhavebymyself,just

becausewehavethebackingofCozyandthemoneythere.

Theresourcesarefree,andit’salwaysgoingtobefree.What

wehaveonLandlordologyis,notonlydowehavethestatelaw

summaries,soifyou’reeveratenantoralandlordandyouwantto

knowiftheotheroneisincompliance,youcangolookitupandit’s

realeasy.Thenwegiverentaladvice.It’snotlegaladvice,butit’s

triedandtrue,bestpracticesadvices.Wehaveabunchofguides,

wecallthemLandlordGuides,andthey’rereallyjustanin-depth

guidethatyoucandownloadasaPDF,andthat’scompletelyfree.

Wedon’tmakeyoupayforthatatall.

It’salotliketheguidesthatyou’vegivenout,theonethatyou

startedwith,withtheexam.Youjustgaveitoutforfreebecause

youdidn’tthinkanybodywouldpayforit,butweknewitwould

behigh-qualityandwejustwerelike,“Youknowwhat?We’rejust

goingtohelpimprovetheindustry.”

We’vegotthoseguidesyoucandownloadontopicslikerent

collectionandtenantscreeningandmove-in/move-out,andhowto

handleallofthatproperly.Weevenhaveasmallpodcastwhereit’s

similartoyourAskPat,andwejustanswerquestionsthatpeople

callin.Ifit’sapplicabletoalargeraudience,we’lljusttakeitandrun

withit.

Everything’soutthere,andwe’rebloggingmultipletimesaweek,

andInowhaveasmallstaffofwritersthathelpmetoo.Theyblog

andthey’reindustryleaderstoo,thatruntheirownblogs,butthey

contributetoourwebsiteandI’mhappytohavethem.Theyeach

havetheirownlittleexpertise,whetherit’smortgagesordo-it-

yourselfrepairs,andallthat,anythingthatalandlordmightneed.

It’sreallybecomingatrueultimateresource,andit’strulyfree,and

it’sdeep.It’sgrowing.




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Pat: Yeah,Iloveit.Itreallyisservingtheaudiencequitewell.Ifeelthat

you’vegottenalloftheanglesinthere,andyou’vebeenableto

growovertimetoo.I’dlovetolearnmoreabouttheacquisition.

WhenCozycameby,wasitjustane-mail?Wasitacall?Iwantto

knowthestoryofhowthisallwentdown.

Lucas: Itallstartedwithatweet.

Pat: Oh,really?

Lucas: Ifeellikethatcouldbeamovietitle.

Pat: “ItStartedwithaTweet,”yeah.

Lucas: “ItStartedwithaTweet.”TheystartedsharingmycontentandI

thought,“Well,that’sneat.”IwentandIlookedattheirsite,because

Ididn’tknowanythingaboutthem.Iwasdiggingintotheircompany

andIsawthat,“Okay,well,here’sthisgroup,thiscompany,that

istryingtomodernizeandmaketherentalprocessmoresecure

andmakeiteasy.”ThenIstarteddiggingdeeperandIfindthatnot

onlyaretheyonthisgreatlittlemission,buttheywenttoGoogle

andtheytoldthemaboutthemission,andGooglesaid,“Well,we’d

lovetobackyou”andsotheyoriginallygottheirseedmoneyfrom

Google.Thensincehavegoneontogetsomeofthebestinvestors

intheindustrytohelpthemalong.

Ithought,“Well,they’redoingitright.Theygettheidea.Theygetthe

mentalitythatwe’reallinthistogether.Wereallyneedtohelpeach

otherout.”Wereallyneedtochangetherentalindustry,because,

arguably,ourhousingmarketisthebackbone,inmyopinion,ofour

smallbusinessandoureconomyinalotofways.Ifwecanreallyget

thatundercontrolandbringthehousingmarketbacktowhereit

needstobe,thentherestofAmericawillfollowsuit.

That’sanotherconversation,butCozyreachedouttomelater.We

weresharingtweetsandwewerejusttalkingthroughTwitter,and

thenGinoZahnd,theCEO,justsentmeane-mailandsaid,“Hey,

listen,haveyougottimeforaphonecall?”Ithinkinthefirst20




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seconds,maybeeven15secondsofthephonecall,hejustsaid,“I’d

lovetotalktoyouaboutacquiringthebrandandhiringyoutorun

it.”Hekindofhadmethere,andIthought,“ThisisexactlywhoI’d

wanttohelpmewithLandlordologyandtakeitover,andtotakeit

tothenextlevel.”

Pat: Whenhepresentedthatideatoyou,whatwasyourinitialreaction?I

don’tknow,whenbuildingLandlordology,ifyouwantedtocontinue

torunthingsonyourown,orifyoufeltlikethisimmediatelyfrom

thestartwasgoingtobeagoodpartnership.

Lucas: IknewthatIcouldmakealotofmoneyoffofLandlordology

throughpassiveincome,ifIcontinuedtodoit,butIalsoknewat

thatpointinthegameIwasbasicallydoing2full-timejobs.Iwas

runningitatnightandmywifebarelysawme,andweweregetting

readytoadoptalittlegirlfromEthiopia,andsotherewasthiswhole

just,“Mytimeisworthmorethanthat.”Ithought,“Well,Icould

continuetodoit,butit’sonlygoingtogrowsomuchwithjustmeat

thehelm.”Icouldoutsourcesomestuff,butIreallylovedwhatCozy

wasdoing.

Theyweretrulytryingtochangeanindustry,andthatdoesn’tcome

lightly.We’retalkinglikeUberischangingthetaxiindustry,thisis

whatCozyisdoingforrentals.Ithought,“Icouldteamupwiththem

andtogetherwecouldtakeLandlordologyandthemissionawhole

lotfurtherthanIevercould.”Thatwasenticingtome,andthatwas

somethingthatletmeworkforCozyandbeathome.Iactually

workoutofmyhouse,andsoI’maroundmyfamilyallday,whichis

fantastic.Ibasicallytoldthem,“IfyoucanmatchmyDCsalaryand

thenacquirethebrand,I’dlovetomakeitwork,”andhejustsaid,

“That’sgreat,becausewe’reinitforthelonghaul.”

Pat: That’sreallycool.Theysoundlikeagreatcompanyanditsounds

likeamatchmadeinheavenatthestart.Wasthenegotiationeasy,

orwasthathowyoupresentedit?Youjustwantedtomatch?Ithink

alotofpeoplewouldstrugglewith,“Well,howdoyouputavalue

onthisblogthatyou’vebeenwritingandmaybeit’sjuststartingto

makesomeincome?”Typically,whenacquisitionshappenit’sall




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basedonthelast12monthsor18monthsofearnings.Ithinkthere’s

alotmorethathappenedhere,thatincreasedthevalueofthe

brand.Youdon’thavetogetintospecificnumbers,butwasthere

alotofbackandforth?Howlongdidittaketoactuallylandon

something?

Lucas: Ittookabout3weeks,actually.Wedidgothroughsome

negotiationsonthevalueofthewebsitebecauseatthetimeI

wasn’tmonetizingit,andsoithadabout30,000uniquevisitorsa

month,which,lookingbacknow,doesn’tseemlikemuch,butitfelt

likealotatthetime.Itcertainlyhadsomevalueandthepotential

seemedgreat,andsotheywerereallybuyingthefutureofit,and

sohowdoyoureallypricethatout?

Iwentthroughacoupleofdifferentmodelsofdeferredvalueand

a5-yearplanof,ifIcontinuedonthispath,whatisitgoingtobe?

Imappedthatoutanddidn’tsharethosewithGino,buthada

financialplannerlookatit,andmyactualbrother,whodoesthis

stuffwithcompanyacquisitionsandmortgagesandstuff,hadhim

lookatittoo.IusedtheresourcesthatIhadandcametoanumber,

andthenweworkedbackandforthalittlebitandgottothemiddle.

Attheendoftheday,Ithought,“Isitworthittometohavethe

freedomandthelifestylethatIneedtobewithmyfamilyandthe

daughterthatIwasadopting?”Itwasmorethanjustmoneyandit

wassomethingthatIwasveryhappytodoanyway.You’vegotto

lookateverything.Lifeisnotjustallaboutthenumbers.

Pat: Right,right.Lucas,that’sverycool.Icantellthatthemissionto

actuallyhelpthisindustryisreal.Itseemslike,asIsaidearlier,

Cozyisagreatcompanytohelpyoudothat.Nowthatthesite,

Landlordologyisstillthere,asisCozy,ofcourse,canyoushare

somenumbersintermsofwhattrafficislikeonLandlordologynow,

andalsowhatresourcesthatyougotfromnowworkingwithCozy

wereabletogrowyouthatnumber?

Lucas: Yes,yes,Landlordologycurrentlygetsabout4,000,000page

viewsayear.About2.8millionpeopleinteractwithussomehow

onLandlordologyayear,andtheseareallpeoplethatwereeither




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readingthearticlesandcommenting,oraskingquestions,or

teachingeachother.TheneatthingthatI’veseenhappenonthat

siteisthatintheCommentssection,otherlandlordsthroughoutthe

countrywillcommentprovideinput.It’sbecomeaforumwithout

useverintendingittobeaforum.Thecommunitythat’sbeen

developedtherejustorganicallyjustneverceasestoamazeme.

Itcontinuestogrowabout18%month-by-month,andsothat’sthe

average,andwe’vecertainlyhadmoremonthsthanthat.Thethings

thatcertainlyappealtomostpeople,Ithink,arethehottopicissues

forlandlordsandtenants.Forexample,orarticlesaboutevictions

certainlygetalotoftraffic.Ourarticlesaboutroachescertainly

getalotoftraffic,andarticlesaboutodd-ballthingsthatyoudon’t

necessarilythinkof,forexample,whatdoyoudowithtenantsif

yousellaproperty?Dotheyhavetherighttostaythere?Theseare

alltopicsthatreallymattertothepeopleintheequation,simply

becausewe’redealingwithhousing.It’sacoreelementthatpeople

need.We’renottalkingaboutjustane-book.It’ssomethingthat

peopleliveinandbreatheeveryday.

Pat: Yeah,verytrue,verytrue.Intermsoftheresourcescomingfrom

Cozy,wasthereanythingspecificallyaftergettingacquiredthat

startedtorampuptrafficquitesignificantly?Didyoustarttoput

advertisingdollars,becauseyouhadaccesstothat,intobuilding

Landlordology?What,ifanything,helpedyougettothatlevel

besidestheobviously,likeyousaid,thecontentandsomeofthe

mostpopulartopics?

Lucas: Sure.ThemostnotablehelpthatIreceivedimmediatelyafter

joiningCozywasthedesign-firstattitude.Cozyisadesign-first

company.EverythingisfocusedonUXandthatexperience,

andmakingitasbestastheycan.Whattheydidistheysaid,

“Landlordology,youhaveagreatsite,butwe’regoingtomake

itevenbetter.”Weimmediatelylaunchedintoaredesignandwe

usedCozy’stop-tierdesignersthattheyhadonstafffull-time.I

hadaccesstothem,andIworkedwiththemdaily,andwe’dtweet

everythingaboutit.




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Itseemedlikeeverydaywe’dgobacktothedrawingboarda

littlebitanditjustwasnicetohaveaprofessionaldesign.Itwasn’t

somethingthatIwasgoingtobuyinatemplatestoreorevenhire

overseas,whichcanwork,butIknewthatthiswassomebodythat

wasworkingwithmeandhadyearsandyearsofexperience.

Thenwecustom-builtthegutssideofit.Theengineeringteamthat

Cozywasusingtobuildtheirproduct,theyjustdumpedontome

andtheysaid,“Youcanhavethisandjustrunwithit.”Iwasableto

makethesitetrulymyown.IfIhadtoputanumberonit,itwould

probablybeabout$60,000worthofcontractorhelp,ifIhadhired

thatoutseparately.Thatwasjustamazing,andtothisdaythe

designthatyouseeonLandlordologyisstillthedesignthatwehad

2yearsago.

Pat: That’sgreat,yeah.

Lucas: Theconversions,they’resohighthatwe’renotchangingit.

Pat: Right.Whatarethemostimportantmetricsthatyou’relookingat

withthatsite?Youhadmentionedconversions,isthatintoe-mail

listsorsomethingelse?

Lucas: Themainconversionwecareaboutisreallyhowmuchtrafficisit

drivingtoCozy?Itisasign-upgeneratorforus,theideabeingthat

ifyoueducatepeopleandyouteachthemtofish,theywillalso

comebacktoyoutobuythefish.That’smyownanalogy,butIthink

teachthemandtheybuildtrustwithyou,andthentheyareableto

comebacktoyouandusewhateverproductyouwant.It’sthesame

thingaswhatyoutalkabout,whereyougiveoutyourbestproducts

andthey’llcomebuywhatevercourseyou’resellingtoo.It’sexactly

thesame.

Weteachthemhowtobeamazinglandlords,andthentheycome

buytheproducttoimplementallofthebestpracticesthatwe

teachthem.Wedotrackconversions.Landlordologysendsover

thousandsofpeopletoCozyeverysinglemonth,andthen,of

those,wegetaboutan8%conversionratetowheresomebodyis




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signingupandactuallypurchasingandusingthetool.

Pat: That’sfantastic.Ithinkthere’sareallygoodlessonheretobe

learned,isthatsometimesalotofusaregreatatcontentmarketing,

butnotsomuchtheproductside,andthenothersaregreatat

creatingproductsbutnotsomuchthecontentside.Itdoesn’thave

tobeallyou.Ithinkthere’salotoflessonstobelearnedhere,for

thisacquisitionthatwe’rehearingabout,andso,Lucas,ifyoucould

speakonthatperhaps?

Ifsomebodywantedtodowhatyoudid,wantedtobuildanultimate

resource,ormaybethey’rebuildingitrightnowandtheyhaveyet

tohaveacompany…Itwasveryfortunate,thattweetthatstarted

everything,butcouldsomeone,Idon’twanttosay“forcethis,”but

makethesekindsofopportunitieshappenforthemselvestoo?Ifso,

whattipswouldyouhaveforthem?

Lucas: Yes,yes,yes,soifyouarebuildinganultimateresource,Iwould

suggestthat,1)youmakeitbetterthaneveryoneelse’s.Imeantruly

havesomethingintherethatisdifferent.Itseparatesyouapartand

itisbetterthaneveryoneelse’s.Itdoesn’thavetobethewholesite.

Forexample,Istartedwithjustthestatelaws.Ithought,“Well,this

isonethingthatcouldbereallyuseful.”WhenIwasgettingstarted,

itgotfeaturedonLifeHacker,justthatonelittleportion.Have

somethingthatpeoplecantakenoteofandthatcanexplainyour

siteinhalfasentence,really.

Then,whenitcomestoreachingouttopeople,ifyou’relookingto

gotheacquisitionroute,whichIdidn’tknowifIwantedtowhenI

started,butit’sanoptionforanexit,thenfindtheotherpeoplein

theindustrythatyouthinkmightbeagoodfit.WhenIlookedat

Cozyforthefirsttime,Iactuallythought,withouthavingtalkedto

thematall,Iactuallythought,“Well,ifanybodywouldeverbuymy

site,Ihopeitwouldbesomebodylikethem,”becauseIjustliked

whattheyweredoingtoo.

Reachouttothem.Sharetweetswiththem.Connectwiththemand

justbuildthatrelationshipandbuildthattrustsothatwhenitcomes




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timethattheymighthaveanewroundofinvestingortheymight

bedoingwellwithrevenueandtheyarelookingforwaystogrow

theythinkofyou.Inmycase,Ginoflatouttoldme,he’slike,“Listen,

we’regoingtobuildacontentmarketingdivision.Wewanttoedit

theindustry,sowecaneitherdoitwithyouorwecandoitwithout

you,buteitherwayit’sgoingtohappen.”

Asniceashewas,that’sthetruth,andIthinkthathehadachoice.

Hecouldbuildit,whichwouldcostmoney,orhecouldtakewhat

wasalreadysucceeding.Ithinkthatthat’swhereyouwanttobe.

Youwanttobeatthattopofaveryshortlistwherethere’saneed.

Pat: Right,andthenintermsofwhatthatdealmightlooklikeandwhat

yourlifemightlooklikeafterwards,Iknowthatyouputalotof

thoughtinto,“Well,thisiswhatIwanted.ThisishowIwanttolive.”

You’reworkingfromhomeandyou’restillabletodothosethings.I

justwanttotouchalittlebitonrewarding,IguessIcouldsay.Alot

ofpeople,theydoseetheseopportunitiesandsometimestheybite

atthefirstone,justbecauseit’sthefirstone.Isthereanythingthat

onecouldlookoutfor?Let’ssaythatthey’regettingsomeinterest

fromothercompanies,howdoyouknowwhichonesarethebest

onestolookat?Howdoyouknowifit’stherightfitforyou,andnot

justyourbusiness,butyourlife?

Lucas: Thedealthatyoustructureisgoingtobeunique,andsoyouhave

avoiceinwhatthatlookslike.Intermsofpickingacompany,I

thinkthatyouhavetohaveapassionforwhateveryou’redoingor

whoeveryou’reworkingwith.IloveworkingforCozy.It’sthebest

companyI’veeverbeenat,andit’ssimplybecausethecultureis

amazingandthepassionisamazing.Ididn’tknowthatgoinginand

it’sreallyhardtoseewhatacompany’scultureislike,butjustfollow

themclosely.

Trytogettoknowthem,andthenfindoutwhattheownersdo.Are

theyinvolved?Aretheyinaheavymetalbandandthatmightbe

awesome,oraretheyinaknittingclub?Theseotherthingsthatyou

mighthaveapassionforalso,couldyouconnectwiththemthere?

Asyoucontinuebuildthatrelationship,justnurtureitlikecrazy.




15

Don’teverturndownapossibleconnection,becausethisentire

industry,regardlessofwhatyournicheis,isbuiltonrelationships,

sonurtureeverything.

Pat: Ilovethat,Lucas.That’sperfectadvicetoendon,andI’mjustso

thankfulthatyoucameontheshowandsharedyourstory,very

inspirational,lotsofgreatadvicetoo.Wherecanpeoplefindyou,

orwherewouldyourecommendpeoplegotolearnaboutyouand

whatyouhavegoingon?

Lucas: Yeah,checkoutLandlordology.com,andCozy.co,that’sCozy(dot)co.

Pat: Awesome,Lucas,yourock.Thankssomuch,andjustfantastic.I

appreciateyou.

Lucas: Thankyou,Pat.

Pat: Awesome.Allright.IhopeyouenjoyedthatinterviewwithLucas

Hall,againfromLandlordology.com,andCozy.co.Itseemslikea

fantasticrelationshipthere,andI’mactuallygoingtobeusingthose

resourceslikelyinthenearfuture,likeIsaidItheintro.

Thankyouagain.Wehavealotofgreatcontentscheduledand

recorded,andreadyforyouintheupcomingweeks,including

anothersuccessstorynextweekthatactuallyintheheadlineit’sa

notsoovernightentrepreneurialsuccessstorywithso-and-so.We’ll

introducethatpersontoyou.She’sawesome,andshe’sactually

teachingEnglishonlineasasecondlanguage,anditdefinitely

didn’thappenovernight.That’sthepointofallofthis,becausewe

havetounderstandthatthisstuffdoesn’thappenwiththeclickofa

button.There’salotthatleadsuptoit,butitcanbedone,andyou

canmakemassivechangesinyourlifeandthelivesofthosewho

youserveonline.

Untilthenextepisode,Ijustwanttothankyouagain.Makesure,

ifyouhaven’tdonesoalready…Ihaven’tmentionedthisina

while,goaheadandgotoSmartPassiveIncome.com/app,yeah,

A-P-P,becauseyoucandownloadanapp,asmartphoneappfor




16

yourAndroidoryouriOSdevice,thatallowsyoutogetallofthe

SPIcontentacrossallofthedifferentchannels.Thistheblog,the

podcasts,includingAskPatandthisone,andSPITVaswell,allin

onespot.Youcanclicktofavoriteyourfavoriteepisodesorpieces

orcontentsoyoucancomebacktothemlater,andit’sjustagreat

experienceforyoutogetSPIonthego.Again,youcancheckthat

outatSmartPassiveIncome.com/app.

Thankssomuch.Iappreciateyou,andI’llseeyounextweek.Bye.

Announcer: ThanksforlisteningtotheSmartPassiveIncomePodcast,atwww.

SmartPassiveIncome.com.




17

ReSouRceS: Landlordology.com

Cozy.co

StudioPress

SPIMobileApp




http://landlordology.com

https://finconexpo.com

http://cozy.co

http://www.studiopress.com

http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/app/


Documents

SPI 232 How Lucas Hall Built and Sold an “Ultimate ... · Show NoteS: 1 Announcer: This is the Smart Passive Income Podcast with Pat Flynn, Session Number 232