NY B9 Farmer Misc- WH 1 of 3 Fdr- 11-15-01 BBC Interview of Cheney 449

8/14/2019 NY B9 Farmer Misc- WH 1 of 3 Fdr- 11-15-01 BBC Interview of Cheney 449

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THE WHITE HOUSE

Off ice of the Press Secretary

Internal Transcript November 15, 2001

INTERVIEW OF THE VICE PRESIDENTBY BBC

11:06 A.M. EST

Q A look at the current situation in Kabul. Youhelped the Northern Alliance to defeat the Taliban in thenorth of Afghanistan. You asked them clearly not to enterKabul, but they did. And now, it seems that they're settinga de facto government. How sure are you that the NorthernAlliance are committed to the idea of a broad-basedgovernment in Afghanistan?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think the important thingto remember here is, obviously, we do not -- these are notAmerican forces, not U.S. forces, these are Afghans who havebeen involved for a long time in a very difficult strugglethere. And the situation is such that we've been willing towork with them and to do everything we could to support themagainst the Taliban.

We have urged them to support a broad-based governmentand we hope that, in fact, will be the case. We think it 'svery important for those of us involved in the coalition tosupport the notion that the ultimate government that emerges

here has to be one that clearly has the support of theAfghan people and that is broadly representative of theAfghan people. I can't predict with certainty how that willsort out, but to date I think as a general proposition, webelieve the Northern Alliance has conducted themselves in aresponsible fashion under the extraordinary circumstancesthat do exist.

Q They've announced several key ministries: TheDefense Ministry; they appointed a defense minister, theyappointed the foreign minister. Don't you think that willcomplicate the whole idea of broad-based government?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think it's not surprising atthis point that you would have those folks who have recentlyfought a number of difficult battles and emerged victoriousover the Taliban to want to put something in its place; Idon't find that surprising.

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I do think it's important for everyone involved tounderstand that the United States and our other coalit ionpartners in the effort, especially the U.K., for example,that we will work with the United Nations and otherinternational organizations to try to establish a secure,stable representative government, long-term.

Our interest is not in telling the Afghan people howthey should govern themselves; those are decisions they'llhave to make themselves. But I think the rest of the worlddoes have an interest in seeing to it that we don't have thekind of situation emerge again that arose under the Taliban.That is to say that Afghanistan becomes a home forterrorists or a sanctuary where terrorist organizations canoperate from.

Q Yes. And also, I don't think the Afghans wouldlike the situation which was 10 years ago when all theseMujahedeen came to Kabul and each commander was controllingone side. If that happened again -- I mean, we understand

that only one faction has entered Kabul, and there are newsthat the other groups -- the Hizaras (phonetic) on theirway. If that happened, if they started fighting forministries, for control -- and let me tell you that thereare some reports of summary executions in Afghanistan rightnow and revenge killings -- how will you sort out that mess?

TH E VICE PRESIDENT: I think I guess I'd back offfrom that at this point, from your sort of assumption there.We cannot solve all of the problems in Afghanistanovernight. We think, I think, have significantly improvedthe situation by our efforts to force the Taliban out ofpower.

What you had in Afghanistan befor e the onset of ourmilitary operations a few weeks ago was a regime that was avery bloody regime, a regime that had become dictatorial andin terms of how it conducted itself, that had createdenormous pain and problems for the vast majority, I think,of the Afghan people. Certainly had seriously mistreatedand abused women in terms of the way they had been forced tolive during the course of this campaign. A regime that had,in fact, contributed significantly to the terriblecircumstances and living conditions the Afghan people findthemselves in today -- while at the same time, while at thesame time making it possible for al Qaeda and Osama binLaden to launch terrorist attacks against the outside world.

Now, the situation is not perfect today, but it iscertainly much better than it was when the Taliban were inpower. The Taliban are, for the most part, gone from about80 or 90 percent of the country and the internationalcommunity is committed to working as aggressively as we can

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to help with humanitarian relief and to try to help find apolitical settlement here that will enable the establishmentof a long-term, stable, representative government.

Now, are there going to be problems along the way?Certainly. Have people been killed in this conflict? Yes,they have. That's the unfortunate part of war. But whenthat happens, I guess I would make the same point that ourDefense Secretary made the other day, that when all isconsidered and done, this transition of power in Afghanistanprobably has been accompanied by less loss of life than anyother in modern history.

Is it perfect? No, but we'll do our level best to seeto it that what we get through here is as peaceful atransition as possible in the establishment of a good,solid, representative government that will look after theinterests of the Afghan people.

Q Britain is into -- to send troops, peacekeeping

troops to Afghanistan. Will those efforts will be matchedby America?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We already have a significantnumber of American forces in the region; some on the groundin Afghanistan. What will be required, going forward, is asyet undetermined. But certainly, the United States iscommitted to working with our friends in the U.K., and othercountries that have expressed an interest in seeing to itthat, in fact, we do establish a good -- perhaps an interimarrangement or interim government ultimately leading to arepresentative government, and the United States is preparedto do whatever we have to do to achieve those objectives.

Q Well, that includes sending..1, 000 American troopsas Britain is indicating?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: You're asking for specificcommitments on specific operational details, on ahypothetical basis and speculative questions, and I can'tanswer those questions.

Q But Britain is giving away this information.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The United States has already done

more than any other nation to try to improve the situationin Afghanistan. We are the leading donor of humanitarianassistance; we were before the tragic events of Septemberllth and the subsequent conflict in Afghanistan, and we areyet today. We've provided well over a million rations inthe last few days to the people of Afghanistan. We haveliberated them from the terrible yoke of oppression of theTaliban. And we will continue to be actively and

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aggressively involved in helping the Afghan people reclaimtheir country and establish a government that they arecomfortable with.

Q That's right. Can I ask you something right here?Many people in Afghanistan feel quite cynical about the waythat they've been used by the outside powers and the powers.And as you remember, the Mujahedeen were used to fight theSoviets; later, the Taliban were created partly with thehelp of CIA, and now you seem to be using the NorthernAlliance. And how can the Afghan people trust America?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think they will get farbetter treatment at the hands of the United States thanvirtually anybody else that they've been dealing with inrecent years. I think if you go into the streets, fromeverything I can see in the streets of Kabul and Mazar-eSharif and the other major cities around Afghanistan today,the people of Afghanistan are thankful and delighted to beliberated from the yoke of oppression of the Taliban, and

that happened as a direct result of the policies ofPresident Bush and the United States of America and theoperations of our military forces.

Q But there is also a sense of not knowing what willhappen next. And also, can you guarantee that once yourobjectives are achieved, you won't abandon the country onceagain?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We've made it clear that we haveno interest in abandoning the country. We want to beactively involved with the Afghan people in creating anenvironment, say, that is healthy for them and lets themlive life to their maximum potential, and also at the sametime ensures that Afghanistan never again becomes a base forthe conduct of terrorist operations against the outsideworld.

Q A lot of Afghans are angry about America'snewfound friendship with Pakistan. Pakistan has always beenseen as a country which has interfered in Afghanistan in thelast 22 years, backing various factions at different times.What assurance can you give about Pakistan's role in thefuture?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: You keep asking for assurances ofthis and assurances of that. I will simply come back andsay that Afghanistan and the people of Afghanistan are in amuch better position today than they were a few months agowhen they were ruled by the Taliban. It's not surprisingthat the neighboring states, whether we're talking aboutPakistan or we talk about Uzbekistan, Tajikistan,Turkmenistan, Iran, a lot of countries that are neighboring

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states to Afghanistan have an interest in what happensinside Afghanistan; and that's not surprising. I think it'sbeen true for centuries. Our effort will be to try to leadan international coalition to work through the appropriateinternational agencies, such as the United Nations, to allowthe Afghan people to make decisions for themselves aboutwhat kind of government they want, and to be able to livetheir lives in the future free of some of the pain andsuffering that's been visited on them in the past.

Q Do you think that the war against Taliban is over?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't say it's over yet. Ithink i t 's clearly been a very successful campaign up tothis point, but there are still parts of the country todaythat are under Taliban rule. Most of the cities obviouslyhave been liberated. Much of the country now is free ofTaliban rule. But there still pockets of resistance. Therestill are foreign invaders, if you will, in Afghanistan.Some of the outsiders, especially some of the Arabs who came

in with Osama bin Laden, and who were invited in by theTaliban and who are still resisting, if you will. So Ican't say that the conflict has ended yet.

It's also important to remember from the standpoint ofthe United States, we have an abiding interest in findingOsama bin Laden and the leaders of al Qaeda, the foreignersthe Taliban invited into Afghanistan, and in fact, thereason all of this recent grief has been visited onAfghanistan is because of their presence.

We want to round them up, we want to bring them tojustice. There are significant financial rewards that havebeen offered by the United States for information leading tothe capture of these individuals, and we'll continue to bevery active there in order to stamp out the al Qaedaterrorist network and its leadership.

Q Do you think that you will ever find bin Ladenhimself?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I d o .

Q If the Taliban were to take to hills and fight aguerrilla campaign, what military strategy would the U.S.

pursue? I mean, I understand that Afghanistan is not aneasy place.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I'm well aware of that. Ithink the questions would be whether or not they would haveany outside support. In the past, of course, they have hadoutside support from various sources in terms of financing,

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in terms of arms, in terms of training. Osama bin Laden has . been one of the major sources of support for the Taliban.

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In effect, you had something of a state-supported --terrorist-supported state, if you will. To the extent thatwe can wipe out that terrorist base, I think that willweaken their capabilities, and I don't think anybody in theoutside world in the future will have any interest insupporting the Taliban or providing them with additionalmilitary capability. So I would think over time, once astrong government is established and local control isestablished as well in the various key provinces aroundAfghanistan, that the Taliban will not be much of a factor.

Q But if it is seen as a foreign intervention inAfghanistan, and if some of the people in Pakistan religiousschools support him to give him that kind of protection,what would you do then?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: If they give who protection --

Osama bin Laden?

Q Bin Laden and also Taliban and the al Qaeda.

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think after the experience theTaliban has had -- remember what happened here; after they

x - - v had provided sanctuary fo r Osama bin Laden while he attackedv J U.S. embassies and killed hundreds of people in East Africa

-- and attacked our ship in Yemen, and then New York City andWashington, B.C., they, in effect, have -- were asked toturn over bin Laden and refused to do so.

President Bush made the point that if you are agovernment that provides sanctuary to terrorists, you haveto accept guilt and responsibility for their actions, justas do the terrorists. The Taliban refused to turn him overand they've suffered the consequences. I think it will bedifficult to find anybody else around the world who willhave an interest in providing sanctuary to Osama bin Ladenand his kind.

Q Many people, both inside and outside Afghanistan,were horrified by reports of civilian casualties caused byAmerican bombs despite your claims of accuracy. And we havereports today of more bombing in Afghanistan. What lessons

have you learned about avoiding the loss of innocent lives?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: We do everything we can to avoidthe loss of innocent life or collateral damage. In a war,unfortunately it's not possible to be absolutely certainthat you always avoid hurting the innocent, but we've done abetter job than anybody in history in terms of our conduct

\f military operations.

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The precision of our attack, the care with which weapply military force are, I think, were there for anyone whowanted to see it. There were a lot of reports, for example,of the people of Kabul watching our military operations fromthe rooftops because they were confident of the precisionwith which we used our military assets.

Any loss of life, of innocent life, is to be regretted,and certainly we're sorry if that happened. But rememberhow this started. It started with nearly 5,000 innocentpeople -- men, women and children, most of them Americans,but many of them from other nations as well, including alarge number of Muslims -- being murdered on September llthin the attack on the World Trade Center and on the Pentagonhere in Washington, D.C.

The key to avoiding that kind of thing happening in thefuture is to eliminate the people who did it, and that'sOsama bin Laden and the al Qaeda network and the leadership

of the Taliban that provided them with sanctuary.So in the long run, I think there will be far less loss

of life in the world as a result of our taking this militaryaction. And that's why we feel it's justified and why wedid what we had to do.

Q You always say that the war on terrorism was muchwider than just Afghanistan. What is the next stage?

THE VIC E PRESIDENT: Well, there are a great manyplaces around the world where there are cells of the alQaeda organization; maybe as many as 40 or 50 countries.And we're working now with the services of other countriesand other governments to try to wrap those organizations up,and we'll continue to work to dry up their financial assetsand resources where it's appropriate. We'll be prepared touse military action should that be required in order toclose down these operations.

But what we are specifically interested in and thePresident has defined is the war on terrorism. And,unfortunately, it's become all too frequent an occurrence.And the United States, I think, and the rest of the worldnow have made it very clear that we will no longer toleratethat kind of activity, nor will we tolerate governments whoprovide sanctuary for terrorists. And I'm sure the campaignahead will be a long one, but in the end it will besuccessful.

Q Thank you very much. I think that's all of 20minutes. Thank you very much for the interview.

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THE VICE PRESIDENT: You bet. Thank you.

END

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NY B9 Farmer Misc- WH 1 of 3 Fdr- 11-15-01 BBC Interview of Cheney 449