NANDI COUNTY ASSEMBLY OFFICIAL REPORTnandiassembly.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2018.07... · 2018-07-31 · boys who are now under suspension for the same. A serious one being

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Disclaimer: The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, through the Office of the Clerk.

05 July, 2018 ASSEMBLY DEBATES

NANDI COUNTY ASSEMBLY

OFFICIAL REPORT

Thursday, 5th July, 2018

The House met at 2:30 pm

[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony) in the Chair]

PRAYER

QUORUM

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Can the Clerk confirm if we have quorum.

(The Clerk confirmed that quorum was not sufficient)

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Serjeant-at-arms ring the bell for ten

minutes.

(Quorum bell)

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Clerk confirm if we now have quorum

(The Clerk confirmed that quorum was sufficient)

STATEMENTS

ABUSE OF CANNABIS (BHANG)

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I stand to seek a statement on abuse of cannabis

which is bhang. Hon. Speaker pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 1 (c) I stand to seek a statement

from the Chairpersons of Health and Sanitation, Devolved Units and Special Programs, Trade

Investment and Industrial Programs Committees on the increased usage of cannabis (bhang) in

young people which is now a great concern to parents, teachers, policy makers and the society in

general.

In the statement, the Chairpersons should;

(i) Inform the House and report on ways which the County Government plans to reverse

the increasing rates of bhang usage by majority of youth of ages between 15 and 24,

(ii) How to cut off the illicit trade of bhang in urban areas and possible sources of bhang.

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(iii) Plans by the County Government to provide guidance and counselling to youth on the

negative impacts of Bhang

(iv) Does the County Government have treatment and rehabilitation services?

Mr. Speaker it is a major concern, it has been seen that very young school going---

(Hon. Koech Gideon on a point of order)

Hon. Koech Gideon: Is the Hon. Member in order to try and expound on the matter she has raised

when we know that it is just a statement? In any case it should have been in written so that we can

read through.

(Hon. Kipkemboi on a point of order)

Hon. Kipkemboi: Mhe. Spika Kanuni ya Bunge nambari 82 sehemu ya kwanza inasema wazi

kuwa Mheshimiwa akisimama kwa hoja ya nidhamu ni lazima ataje kanuni.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Noted however, Hon. Koech Gideon was

raising a concern on the procedure of seeking a statement whether Hon. Teresa Maiyo is in order

to try and expound on the statement and it is in order. Standing Orders only say that statements

should be in written but while seeking it you can clarify further. So Hon. Teresa Maiyo, proceed.

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Thank you Hon. Speaker for protecting me and clarifying because among

the things I wanted the Hon. House to note is the fact that among our top schools there are a lot of

boys who are now under suspension for the same. A serious one being a form one student of

Kemeloi Boys’ School who was found having carried some fresh bhang to school. I would like the

ICT department to highlight in the screen so that the Members can see that it is a serious concern

Hon. Speaker.

The departments concerned should move with speed to salvage the situation. I am requesting the

ICT to show the clip.

(Hon. Maiyo Teresa spoke off-record)

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Order Hon. Teresa, ensure your microphone

is on.

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Thank you Hon. Speaker that is the stuff that was found taken to school by

one of the form one boys. It is a serious issue that is affecting learning, health and it is a concern

as a County. This is a second statement that I am seeking and the first one has not been responded

to Hon. Speaker, thank you.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Teresa do you recall when you sought

the statement and which department you were seeking the statement from?

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: I cannot recall the exact date but the statement was on clearing of bushes

around show ground and areas towards the direction of this Assembly where it was potential

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hideout for rapists and other dangerous people. I also sought statement on information of pending

cases of rape in our courts and police department and how they are being addressed. It was directed

to Committee of Governance, Labour, Justice and Legal Affairs and Devolved Units and Special

Programmes. That is the much I remember.

THE PROGRESS OF KOITALEL SAMOEI UNIVERSITY

Hon. Koech Gideon: I want to make a further enquiry on the statement I sought

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Proceed.

Hon. Koech Gideon: Hon. Speaker, I remember the ruling of the Speaker was that when a

statement is sought it should be strictly responded to within seven days. I have been waiting for

answers but I know the Hon. Chair of Education, Research and Vocational Training is not well,

however, I have seen a few Members of the Committee here. I was seeking to know whether they

can give us the stage to which the statement has reached concerning establishment of Koitalel

Samoei University, progress made and the various steps that are being taken to ensure that the

process is being fast tracked. It is now two weeks or more since I sought the statement!

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Noted Hon. Gideon. Hon. Chair for Health

and Sanitation Committee, what do you have to say on the statement sought?

Hon. Sanga: Thank you Mr. Speaker, we shall respond to the statement sought in two weeks’

time. Thank you.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Noted. That aside, I wish to also make this

ruling that Hon. Maiyo Teresa, consult with the Hansard department and any Member who has

sought a statement and it has not been responded to within the next forty eight hours, then write to

the office of the Speaker on any status that has been given to you either by the responsive

Chairperson who ought to have responded to that.

Additionally, I would also rule that any statement that has been sought and has not been responded

to for more than twenty one days should be taken up by the Assembly Business Committee and be

responded to within the next fourteen days. All statements that have not been responded to that

have gone beyond twenty one days, Assembly Business Committee to take over and ensure that

such statement is responded to within the next fourteen days.

Hon. Koech Gideon: Mr. Speaker, Hon. Maiyo Teresa is the Vice Chair for Education, Research

and Vocational Training Committee, Hon. Komen is a Member of that Committee, Mr. Speaker

with due respect even if the Chairman is not around they should be in a position to say how far

they have gone because that is something that is not a preserve of the Chair. This is something that

is of great concern to the people of Nandi Hills who have been seeing progress made elsewhere

and we know very well that none other than His Excellency the President during the run up to the

campaigns of 2017 came to Nandi Hills to lay foundation for Koitalel Samoei University.

It is public knowledge that we have a sign post and a gate in Mosoriot currently and that is why it

should have been the most urgent thing for the Committee to address! Mr. Speaker I am seeking

your indulgence that we get even a word from the Committee at this point in time.

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Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Teresa Maiyo, this House is well

versed that you are the Vice Chair in the Committee.

Hon. Teresa Maiyo: It is true Mr. Speaker that I am the Vice Chair of Education, Research and

Vocational Training Committee and I take it upon myself that as early as Tuesday, I will be able

to say a word. As for the statement that I have sought, it is only the Chairperson of Health and

Sanitation Committee who has committed to it, I really hope that the Chairperson Trade,

Investment and Industrial Development can also look into it. Thank you.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Teresa Maiyo, you sought the

statement from the Chairman Health and Sanitation and the Chairman for Trade, Investment and

Industrial Development?

Hon. Teresa Maiyo: Hon. Speaker, Chairpersons of Health and Sanitation Committee, including

Devolved Units and Special Programmes Committee and Trade, Investment and Industrial

Development Committee knowing that the bhang that students get is being sold to them. So at least

trade department should also look into ways especially on the second point cutting on the illicit

trade of bhang in urban areas and possible sources of bhang.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Teresa Maiyo, you are aware that

when you bring in trade in bhang or cannabis sativa and it is already an illegal drug. It does not

qualify to be a product that is being traded. Additionally, you are saying that it affects the school

children, so are you also saying that the Committee on Education, Research and Vocational

Training Committee should be brought on board on this? Anyhow, I direct that this being an issue

that you have addressed to the Chairman of Health and Sanitation Committee, I would direct that

three Members of Committee of Health and Sanitation and three Members from Trade, Investment

and Industrial Development Committee and three Members of Committee of Education, Research

and Vocational Training Committee look into the matter and respond to the same through the

Chairman Health and Sanitation in the next fourteen days.

Hon. Koech Gideon: Mr. Speaker, from the comments made by Hon. Teresa Maiyo the Vice

Chairperson of Education, Research and Vocational Training Committee, it means that the

Committee has not made even a step to answer the statement I sought. From what she has given

us, it seems she is not aware of any steps that have been taken to even write to the relevant

departments. I would have expected a response that says this is how far we have gone! I am hard

on this Mr. Speaker because I know what is on the ground.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Noted Hon. Koech Gideon, I have indicated

if you heard my directive that, any other statement that has not been responded to within twenty

one days from the date of seeking the statement and when it was expected to be responded should

be taken up by the County Assembly Business Committee and ensure that they are responded to.

I think for your matter if it is not responded to by the Vice Chair Education, Research and

Vocational Training Committee by Tuesday next week then it will be taken up by County

Assembly Business Committee and ensure the same is responded to.

MOTION

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ADOPTION OF LANDS, ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMITTEE

REPORT ON LAND CONVEYANCE IN NANDI COUNTY

Hon. Kirwa Robert: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I wish to move that this House adopts the report

of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources Committee on conveyancing of land laid on the

floor of the House on 30th May, 2018. This report highlights nature of land as well as steps to be

followed from purchasing of the land until issuing of the title deeds and certificate of titles.

In executing its mandate, the Committee oversees the following sub-departments; lands, water,

survey and physical planning. According to Second Schedule of the Nandi County Assembly

Standing Orders, the Committee is mandated to consider the following subjects; implementation

of specific national policies on natural resources and environmental conservation including soil,

water conservation, forestry, control of air pollution, noise pollution, public nuisances and

outdoor advertising.

The Committee comprises of the following Members; Hon. Robert Kirwa-Chairperson, Hon.

Osborn Komen-Chairperson, Hon. Wilson Sang, Hon. Geoffrey Kevolwe, Hon. Jostine

Chepnyango, Hon. Jackson Swadi, Hon. Margaret Nyauntu, Hon. Rael Rotich and Hon. Gideon

Koech who are the Members.

Hon. Speaker, I think I will go through the steps which every Member can acquire land. One must

thus get it right when buying land to avoid conflicts or being conned. Here are the processes to

follow. It all starts with land identification. This is where a prospective buyer identifies a piece of

land that meets their criteria including size, location, soil type etc. the most important thing is to

be clear on what one wants, before starting the search.

There are different kinds of properties; agricultural land, residential, controlled development,

commercial. At this point. It is important to do some basic due diligence about the property,

especially by using a government surveyor or registered surveyor to verify the land dimensions.

Hon. Speaker allow me to read the recommendations---

(Hon. Muge Cynthia on a point of information)

Hon. Muge Cynthia: Thank you Hon. Speaker, I am wondering if I am the only one lost!

Everyone here does not have the report that the Hon. Member reading.

Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): It has been indicated that it was tabled on

the floor of the House on 30th so it is assumed that every Member should have. However, the

Serjeant-at-arms should organize to ensure that Members have copies. Hon. Robert Kirwa proceed

with the recommendations.

Hon. Kirwa Robert: Hon. Speaker, allow me to read the recommendations of the Committee.

The Committee recommends that, the report be placed in the County Assembly website for access

by public, the department of lands to organize outreach programs to conduct civic education on

the subject and Implementation Committee to report on the Implementation of the report.

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On observations; Hon. Speaker, proper civic education on conveyance matters will save the public

their money and protection from exploitation from land cartels and fraudsters. I wish to ask Hon.

Koech Gideon to second the Motion.

(Hon. Koech Gideon bowed to second)

(Question proposed)

Hon. Koech Gideon: Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this particular report. As a Member of the

Committee we took time to go through this report. The purpose of this report was to lay bare the

procedures and the various forms of ownership in matters related to land. We felt that this was

important because we found out that there are some residents who might not be in a position to

know various forms of ownership and one key factor as we start the historical land injustices issues

is to ensure that the entire population of Nandi County get to know the various forms of land

ownership.

Of great and important concern in particular is some of us who come from areas where we have

vast land covered with tea whose ownership we might not be in a position to ascertain whether it

is freehold, leasehold or any other form. So the purpose of this report was to lay the foundation,

bring to the attention of Members the various forms of ownership and as a matter of fact bring to

the attention of public the various steps to be taken when one wants to purchase land, what are the

procedures? What are the steps to be taken? So that we do not hear of cases like a case currently

in Kapkangani of an old man whom we might not be in a position to know if he was forced to sell

land. Had we known these steps on how to transfer ownership of land probably it would have

saved the situation of the old man.

This is a report and I want to inform the Members that it is based on facts as they are on matters

to do with constitutional land documents that are there which is meant to be brought to the attention

of Members, various forms of ownership and the procedure when it comes to transfer of land from

one owner to another and I know most of us here especially some of who are my age mates are

upcoming land owners, you must be owning one or two pieces of land so this will come in handy

because it is shading light on how we should proceed. If you have bought an acre or so how will

you proceed? And the various visits to the land board. Those are the Acts that are highlighted in

this particular report.

I rose to do a bit of expounding on this report and add my voice on this report. I must say as I have

said before that it is a matter of showing us what we can do when we want to purchase land and

what kind of ownership we have, I fully support this report. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Muge Cynthia: Thank you Hon. Speaker. I want to pass my regards and sincere appreciation

to the Committee of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources. They have clearly stated that it

is the most important resource that we have in Kenya and in Nandi to be specific. I want to

appreciate them because they have tried to let us know about the simple steps that we at times miss

and it becomes a legal issue and we start fighting about land.

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However, as much as how their point is, I want to also ask because this is a House of order and it

is a House that keep records, if you look at the spellings and the grammar in this report from the

preface, the first part says land in most of society of is the most of import natural resources, Hon.

Speaker that makes zero sense. Again in number seven of step by step process of acquiring land,

Hon. Members in this Committee saw it correct to say in the second statement here are that

processes to follow! This being a House of order I think we should not be submitting reports that

even the simplest English is not flowing and we are saying we are a House of order and we are

trying to make laws and policies without proper writing and spelling!

I appreciate the Committee for putting across the point that this is the due processes we can follow

so that we can get our lands registered and legally own them. I support this report from the said

Committee and I urge all the Members to adopt the report. Thank you Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Kipkemboi: Asante sana Mhe. Spika. Kwanza ningependa kushukuru Kamati kwa ripoti

hii. Nikiwa mwakilishi wa wadi ya Kapsabet kuna changamoto kuhusu mambo ya mashamba.

Mtu anaweza kuwa na cheti cha umiliki shamba ilhali anayeishi kwenye shamba hilo ni mtu

mwingine. Wiki iliyopita niliongea na mwenye shamba iliyokuwa na kesi, nilimuuliza kama ana

shamba akasema shamba iliuzwa na cheti waliyokuwa nayo haikuweza kusimamisha uuzaji kotini.

Nilishangaa nani aliyeweka sahihi na koti iliamua vipi. Wakili anasimamia kesi ya shamba ilhali

hafahamu kuhusu shamba yenyewe. Leo nimekuwa kotini, wakili ameshtakiwa kwa kuweka sahihi

kwa shamba ya mtu na cheti haikuwa halali, shamba ina shida.

Wakati huu vijana wanauza shamba kidogo kidogo kisha wananunua pikipiki. Naomba

Mwenyekiti wa Kamati hii apige marufuku uuzaji wa shamba kiasi cha thumuni ya ekari moja

kwa maana imetuletea shida. Wasipeane cheti cha umiliki kwa shamba kiasi cha thumuni ya ekari.

Nasikia kuna vijana wawili wanataka kuuza shamba kiasi hicho wanunue pikipiki na maisha ya

baba yao iko hatarini. Cheti ipeanwe kwa ekari moja ama nusu ekari. Ukiangalia pesa wanayopata

kwa kuuza shamba wanunue pikipiki, haisaidii chochote. Hoja hii inafaa kuwa mswada kisha iwe

sheria, watajua kuna shida. Mambo mengi yameandikwa hapa, mtu anawezaje kuchukuwa cheti

cha umiliki kwa shamba ya mwingine? Kuna shamba ya Hussein Kipkemboi, amekaa nayo kwa

miaka ishirini, juzi mtu amekuja na cheti cha umiliki na kudai kuwa shamba ni yake. Kuna shamba

ya Chepsiror, yeye amekuwa na shamba kwa miaka 40 na mwenye cheti ni mwingine. Nashangaa,

ni nani anapeana cheti cha umiliki? Kamati inafaa kuwafuta wale wote ambao wanasimamia

mashamba, mimi niliwauliza ni nani aliwapatia hiyo shamba. Nilinunua shamba hapa Kapsabet

pekee yangu lakini ukitaka kuuza, lazima mke na watoto wakubaliane. Kamati ijikaze kwasababu

tuna kazi na shida ni nyingi. Kumalizia, tusaidiane wenye shamba wapate umiliki, wale watu

wanafaa kupata haki kwa Wadi ya Mhe. Kevolwe, tusaidiane tupate haki, kama mwenye shamba

saa hii apate cheti chake, kila mtu apate haki yake, ni hayo tu.

Hon. Chepkoech: Nina swali kwa Mhe. Kipkemboi, anataka kuiambia Kamati inayohusika na

mashamba kuwa mtu akinunua shamba kiasi ya thumuni ya ekari asipewe cheti cha umiliki?

Nataka kujua atapewa nini?

Hon. Kipkemboi: Nimesema kutoka sasa shamba kiasi ya thumuni ya ekari moja isiuzwe tena.

Wale walio nayo wapewe, turekebishe kutoka leo, ni maombi yangu, haijakuwa sheria.

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Hon. Sing’oei: Nashukuru kamati kwa kufanya kazi nzuri, kweli mashamba yana kazi ngumu.

Kuna shida kwa wale walio na allotment letters bila cheti cha umiliki. Kule Chepkumia wale

waliopewa shamba wamepata vyeti vya umiliki lakini wangine bado, tayari watu wanaishi. Kila

mtu apate shamba yake na cheti chake kwasababu walipewa kitambo na serikali wakati wa KANU.

Siungi mkono kuuzwa shamba kiasi thumuni ya ekari vijijini lakini hapa Kapsabet inaruhusiwa

kwasababu bei ni ghali. Vijijini tuna mashamba makubwa ambayo tutapanda majani chai,

tukigawa viwe vidogo vidogo vijijini haitakuwa sawa. Tushawishi watu wasigawe shamba viwe

vidogo vidogo, haitasaidia chochote, heri tuishi sehemu moja, heri wakutanishe mashamba,

wapande chai, wakivuna wagawane pesa, itakuwa bora. Hatupingi kuuzwa kwa nusu ekari, tusiuze

shamba tununue pikipiki, lima shamba hadi ununue pikipiki, shamba haiwezi rudi, kitambo

Tanzania baiskeli ilikuwa nyingi sana, si utajiri, hata hapa pikipiki si utajiri, kazi ni kunywa pombe

na kutangatanga, dunia ni hivyo. Kuna ukora hapa Kapsabet na tunawalaumu wale wasimamizi

wa mashamba kutoka wizara. Mtu anaweza kuwa shamba mjini, anabadilisha jina lake na muuzaji,

mwishowe inapatikana kwamba shamba sio yake. Niliwauliza watu walioshughulikia jambo hilo

kwa wizara na wakasema ni halali, kumbe wanafanya biashara. Ni hayo tu, naunga mkono.

Hon. Chepkoech: Naunga mkono hoja hii kwasababu nimeona watu wengi wameteseka

kwasababu ya cheti cha umiliki. Kuna shida kwenye uchunguzi, wanasema wanaenda kutengeneza

cheti cha umiliki Nairobi, tutafute njia nyingine ili watu wa mashinani wasaidike. Wanauza

mashamba mara tatu na wanastarehe tu, wasaidiwe kwa uchunguzi kwasababu inafaa kufika

haraka iwezekanavyo.

Hon. Koech David: I first thank the Committee of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources for

the good work. I wish this report came earlier before we took mortgages. We are new to some of

these issues, I have checked through the process and it will actually save us. Requesting for civic

education is important because it is going to save people from being conned. In the report, I have

seen we have identification of land, we have people who sell same piece of land up to four times.

In the Ministry of Lands with this Government, all those issues will stop. You realize that in our

County we have challenges when it comes to land issues; we have conflicts, today I heard in an

audio about Kiptuiya Ward, it is a perennial problem, the land issue is a problem there.

Title deeds is another issue, some people are holding on to fake title deeds. I believe the issue of

Kiptuiya should come to rest. This town has a lot of challenges in planning, kindly get the physical

plans plus the title deeds. Most people have the plots but cannot develop the lands because they

don’t have title deeds. If they had the title deeds, the banks would assist to develop. There are a lot

of encroachments into the lands that belong to the Government, we request to have more land

surveyors to check on that. Roads have been encroached making them so thin, two vehicles moving

side by side cannot fit into these roads. The Committee has worked hard, thank you for the report.

I support.

Hon. Chumba Milka: Thank you. I support the report from Lands, Environment and Natural

Resources Committee. It is embarrassing knowing our age and not having title deeds. The title

deeds belong to people who died, there is a problem with lands department. There are two old men

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who come to Kapsabet everyday seeking title deeds. One suffered from stroke, he met Jadiffa who

told him that he knew his case and that he should go and wait for him in the shopping center.

I met Jadiffa, I told him about the issue and he told me that they were waiting for the Assembly to

do mapping yet that was not the case. People have struggled to build premises on that land. I have

also bought land there but was denied rightful ownership of the said land. We had to sit down and

talk with all family members of the seller in the presence of chiefs, lawyers and elders but I was

told that land belonged to someone else, I am now headed to court. Let’s know that there are fake

and genuine title deeds, we want to know if the lands are sold by owners or not.

In Kipkaren Ward, I was told that sometimes back every dip was on 7 acres piece of land, in the

17 dips in the Ward, the land around dips is now an eighth of an acre, the biggest is slightly more

than an eighth of an acre. The old men I met told me that in Kipkaren the dips occupied 7 acres, I

told them in a baraza that anyone occupying public land should surrender. Very early in the

morning I had visitors advising me to avoid such talk. I went out and met people who praised me

for what I had said about land in the cattle dips. The cattle dips should occupy 7 acres and I know

the people who stole those lands, it is now time to know whose land belongs to who and I do not

want to be used to grab. Seven acres is big, let the Committee sit with the minister, bring the map,

go to the ground and we want all public land repossessed. I support the Motion.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Kipkurui Chepkwony): As we speak Hon. Members, let us get to

refer and be in line with the report, we are going out of the Motion.

Hon. Kevolwe: I support the adoption of the report. It has numerically shown steps, procedures

and implementation on how the land is owned. In respect to Kiptuiya which has a serious issue on

land, one has to do two things to buy land, search the owner and get a go ahead by the seller. In

my area, we use willing buyer and willing seller system. When a willing seller sells land and money

being sweet, he comes back to claim the sold land in order to resale. The Land Commission has

been created and this will make buying of land easy.

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Thank you Hon. Speaker. Before you put the question, let me make a few

comments on the report. First, I thank the Lands, Environment and Natural Resources Committee

for the report which has enlightened us on land purchase and ownership. The recommendations

will have the biggest beneficiaries as women who are victims of land deception. In Africa, men

are major holders of land and changing trends, women will benefit from the procedure of owning

land, I thank the Committee. I support where it says that the Committee is planning an outreach

program to conduct civic education on the subject, it will be widely known, I request that you

touch on land fragmentation, in ten years, we will not have food because all land will be

fragmented and possibly machine farming will be impossible, low food production will be the

order of the day.

I have an issue with the organization of papers in this report unless it is mine alone. It is so hard to

read on the numbering, 7(1) I was wondering what the clericals were doing, or the Committee did

not go through the report, it is shameful. Otherwise I support the report. I hope something is done

in the near future.

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Hon. Maiyo Charles: Thank you. This report is very good, we are living in a County where land

is fragmented into small portions and we are not seeing the future of our children. The way the

Committee has put it, it is the right procedure of acquiring land, we need the Committee to look

into the people manning the office that deals with issues of lands in Kapsabet; they are the source

of problems that people are living in a plot without title deeds. I like the point on the need to have

public participation in Nandi. I want to alert the people selling land in this County that a time will

come when they will be landless, especially north rift. People are buying land along the road and

that is harmful. The Committee should look into the processes of acquiring land so that issues are

addressed. Thank you I support.

Hon. Nyauntu: I am standing to support this report for Lands, Environment and Natural Resources

Committee. This is in order, most members are young and depend on title deeds of their parents.

From here they will learn and do something to own their lands. The numbering was overlooked, I

hope you will bear with us, we will improve. We are not the ones binding and typing, any error

should be excused.

Hon. Teresa Maiyo: I am just wondering how a Member of lands---

(Hon. Chepkemei on a point of inquiry)

Hon. Chepkemei: On which point of order is Hon. Teresa rising on?

Hon. Teresa Maiyo: On a point of information. I would like to inform the Hon. Member who is

a Member of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources Committee that it doesn’t take them lots

of time to ensure that the report is in order. They can check and ensure that they are well bound.

Thank you.

Hon. Nyauntu: The report was well---

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Order! had you completed your

comments? You should be doing so!

Hon. Nyauntu: I wanted to let Hon. Maiyo Teresa know that this was brought to her now. This

is unprepared because I am sure you were given that copy because you did not carry the one which

was supplied previously. Otherwise I would like to say that this issue is very important and it is

very important for people to have civic education. What we have heard in the report is basic. We

still have so many other inclusive things which people can get. There are several things which we

have not even included and we want to let you know that apart from what we have, through civic

education, we will get to know more things. Let us adopt this report. Thank you.

Hon. Kipkemboi: Mheshimiwa Spika, ningependa kufahamisha Bunge kuwa hii inaweza kuleta

shida kwa sababu mimi kama mzee naweza kuandika mkataba pekee yangu. Pia wanafaa kuona

vizuri ili ikiandikwa, lazima wahakikishe kwa sababu sheria inasema kuwa familia nzima

ijumuishwe. Mapendekezo ya ripoti hii inaruhusu mtu mmoja kuuza shamba kwa sababu inasema

unaweza---

(Members consulting in loud tones)

11



The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Kipkemboi is on order of

information. Allow him to conclude.

Hon. Kipkemboi: mapendekezo ya ripoti hii inaweza ruhusu mtu mmoja kuuza shamba na italeta

shida hadi watu wakauana. Naomba isiidhinishwe hadi marekebisho ifanywe kwa maana shamba

huleta shida---

Hon. Koech Gideon: Is the Hon. Member in order to contradict his earlier statement made which

is also captured in the Hansard to try and oppose this report yet he has given his go ahead and

support for this particular report? In any case, I wish to inform him that this is not a law. We are

not creating any law here. We are approving a report which forms the basis for us to make

discussions which can inform any law that we will bring to this House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Order! Members probably Hon.

Kipkemboi has been convinced otherwise while the Motion was being deliberated on.

Hon. Chepkemei: I was so concerned that Hon. Kipkemboi is misleading this House. He

supported the Motion and no sooner had he done so than he rose again to oppose it. That is not

sanity. It is not right to continue like this.

Hon. Kipkemboi: Ningependa kumuuliza Mheshimiwa Chepkemei kuwa ni sheria gani

hainiruhusu kukubali au kukataa. Kulingana na sheria, naruhusiwa kukubali au kukataa.

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Hon. Speaker, I got concerned when Hon. Nyauntu said that there are other

things that were left out in the report. I changed my mind Hon. Speaker that they be given time to

include what she said and also consider what Hon. Kipkemboi is saying. Because you realize that

so many families especially women, suffer with children when land has been sold haphazardly.

We request that the same things be included in the report.

Hon. Koech Gideon: I wish to inquire from Hon. Teresa Maiyo, on which order she was up on

because she just stood and gave a short lecture to us on how she had changed her mind without

saying whether---

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Order! Members.

Hon. Koech Gideon: Whether she is on point of information, order or inquiry. Can she explain?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Teresa has gotten the attention

of the Speaker on a point of information while you were speaking and so it was in order for her to

address the Assembly.

(Hon. Nyauntu on a point of information)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): What is your information Hon.

Nyauntu, and to who?

Hon. Nyauntu: Let me start with Hon. Kipkemboi. I want to bring to your notice that you should

be aware that you are an Hon. Member who should always know current affairs. That allows people

to honor partnership. A title deed has an individual name, maybe you can add your wife’s name in

land ownership through a lawyer.

12



I also want to inform Hon. Maiyo Teresa that what I was trying to tell her is current. Even before

we had this report, there is another report that has come up that I thought I should enlighten you

about but if people get civic education then they will learn more. Let me conclude by saying that,

with civic education we shall be able to learn many things.

Hon. Muge Cynthia: Standing Order No. 89 talks about declaration of interest. Hon. Nyauntu

needs to declare her interest to the House being a Member to the same Committee.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Nyauntu, do you have any

interests to declare?

Hon. Nyauntu: I am a Member of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources Committee and I

am very much informed about land issues. I wouldn’t want to leave you alone without knowing

some of the issues.

Hon. Kipkemboi: Mheshimiwa Nyauntu ana mapendeleo kwa kusema kwamba lazima nikubali.

Mimi nina uamuzi wangu na lazima atangaze kwamba yeye ni mwanakamati wa hiyo kamati lakini

pia sio alazimishe wengine waunge mkono. Aache mapendeleo kwanza.

Hon. Kirongo: I am left wondering how people supported the report and within two minutes they

start opposing. I think it is high time that you just read the report and when you are done make

your contribution. Otherwise let me go straight to the point. I support the report and this is good

for this County. Such a report will assist those people who have stayed for more than thirty years

without having a title deed. For any other person with a title deed knows the importance of that

document. It is high time that this House starts correcting the messes that are there. For example

in my Ward, there are so many people who have been dubbed for having been sold land that has

no title deed. When we have such a report, with due respect, let us be positive over it, support it

and we move ahead as there are so many things to be done. We must advise the Committee, if we

have other things they must add, then we just advise them. This is a good report and I support.

Thank you.

Hon. Some: Thank you Mr. Speaker. It has been a challenge to get an opportunity. You know I

have a challenge with my height and I thank God because he is the one who gave me and I am

now called an Hon. Member---

(Applause)

Land as we know is a major factor of production. I thank the Committee on Lands, Environment

and Natural Resources for coming up with this procedure on how to buy or sell land to avoid

disputes. I support what Hon. Chumba Milka said, many of our people have committed suicide

because of land disputes. This is because when someone goes to the court to challenge someone’s

rights, some people surrender their lives and commit suicide because justice has been denied. I call

upon the Land Commission to issue title deeds in time and issue them carefully. For those few

remarks I say thanks to this Hon. House.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR

13



SCHOOL VISIT

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Before I put the question, in the gallery

today we have pupils who have visited this County Assembly. We have two schools. The first is a

school from Mlango. Feel very much welcomed to this County Assembly and thanks to the

teachers for making plans to bring the pupils to this House. Mlango Primary school is from

Lelmokwo/ Ngechek Ward represented by Hon. Morogo and in a moment I will allow him a

minute to make a comment.

Also, in the gallery today are pupils from Chepkuchur Primary School in Tinderet Ward.

(Applause)

I want to acknowledge their presence and thank the school administration and teachers for bringing

their students to this House. I will then allow the Member for Lelmokwo/Ngechek ward to make

a comment and also in the absence of the Chair for Education, Research and Vocational Training

Committee, I will allow Hon. Teresa Maiyo to make a comment. On behalf of the Member for

County Assembly representing Tinderet, I will allow the Member for Nandi hills to make a

comment to the pupils.

Hon. Koech Gideon: I want to inquire from you Mr. speaker, now that we are in the middle of a

Motion, I am seeking your indulgence to guide this House procedurally, how are supposed to

proceed on this point? How can we acknowledge our guests in the middle of a Motion that we are

yet to conclude?

Hon. Muge Cynthia: Is Hon. Koech Gideon in order to lecture you on your decision using

Standing Order No.1?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): It has been noted in this House Hon.

Koech Gideon that you are the fastest learner on matters Standing Orders and we applaud you in

the month of May/June when you emerged top and we encourage you to continue learning

including---

(Applause)

When you read the Standing Orders, please do not skip Standing Order No.1.

Hon. Morogo: I am just happy. I want to take this opportunity to welcome the two schools to this

Hon. House today. You are highly welcomed especially the school which comes from my Ward,

that is Mlango Primary School which has been performing well.

I know they have to seek more knowledge so that in future we can get good politicians, top clergies

and even presidents. The teachers, staff and pupils of the school are God-fearing. You have seen

that this is an Assembly which is a House of procedures and laws. I hope you have learnt something

even on the report we had today since it is on issues of land. I know your school sits on a small

14



piece of land thus not enough for you. I hope in future you will get more land and as the area MCA

I will see to it that we expand the school to cover a larger area with a land title.

I thank the teachers and staff of the school for the commendable work you have done to ensure

that the pupils get more knowledge about the County Assembly. One time I will bring with me

some Hon. Members to your school. You still have time get to learn more. Thank you.

Hon. Maiyo Teresa: Thank you for giving me this opportunity to welcome our students who have

visited the Assembly. I take this opportunity on behalf of Education, Research and Vocational

Training Committee to welcome you most sincerely and to inform you that as a Committee we are

doing all that we can to ensure everything works for you. Today we touched on issues of bhang in

our schools and I take this opportunity to ask the pupils to focus on their education without letting

anyone take away their focus. If you do so, I am sure one day you will be very successful gentle

man or lady.

As for the teachers, I know the hard work you are doing as I was one of you. I urge you to still

help the young Kenyans who are entrusted in your hands. I know the challenges you are going

through but forge on mentoring and taking care of them as well as being their parents while in

school. As a Committee, Hon. Komen from Terik Ward has offered to give each one of you a

lollipop and I ask him to stand so that you can see---

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Order! Hon. Teresa. That is not a

privilege to be misused as so. However, your statement on lollipop can be transacted after the

business. Hon. Member for Nandi Hills being the top most Member in this session, you can have

a minute. It is a privilege if you can talk.

Hon. Koech Gideon: Thank you for this opportunity to acknowledge the presence of the two

schools here. It’s an honor that you have given me a chance. I want to tell the pupils that it has

taken a lot of work for all of us to be here as Hon. Members but it is possible even for them to be

here and even in the other professions when they grow up. We have different professions in this

Assembly and I challenge the pupils to work hard and smart. Focus on learning as Hon. Teresa

Maiyo has said and you will always emerge victorious. As you go back to your various wards, take

our greetings as an Assembly and mostly now that Hon. Member for Tinderet is today’s Speaker,

I wish to acknowledge and say that the team from Tinderet you are welcomed. The Speaker was

also my colleague in the youth movement as I can speak on his behalf briefly to welcome the

students from Tinderet Ward.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Thank you teachers and the pupils

from the two schools. Receive our appreciation and always feel welcome to learn from the

Assembly of Nandi. I am sure there are English teachers in the schools you get in touch with our

Serjeant-at-arms, I am sure you can get a copy of the Hansard reports so that you can make it a

reference in your schools. This Assembly is happy for your visit to this Assembly.

The right of reply to the adoption of the report shall be responded to in the next session and also

the issues that were raised by Hon. Teresa Maiyo and Hon. Nyauntu as indicated that there are

minor issues. This is a House of procedure and order however if you look at the pitching on the

document you have, it doesn’t in any way refer to the order of the County Assembly.

15



(Applause)

Additionally, the errors brought forth by Hon. Muge Cynthia are not issues that can be taken

without being corrected. Remember, if you check the first recommendation of this report is that

this be published for the public. I am sure, as the report is, you all know if the question is put and

it carries the day, not even a comma or a full stop will be amended and I am sure none of you

would want to see this appearing in the County Assembly website. I will then defer putting the

question to Tuesday next week and the Chair of the Committee ensure the pitching is done right

as well as the minor errors that are appearing there. Remember that this is technically telling the

people how to proceed on matters of land conveyancing and I am expecting that the legal office to

have a note on the same. I will defer putting the question till Tuesday after the business scheduled

for that day.

ADJOURNMENT

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Kipkurui Chepkwony): Hon. Members, there being no other

business this session stands adjourned until Tuesday next week.

(The House rose at 4:01 pm)

Documents

NANDI COUNTY ASSEMBLY OFFICIAL REPORTnandiassembly.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2018.07... · 2018-07-31 · boys who are now under suspension for the same. A serious one being