Lists of the comments added by respondents to their ... · employing certificated teachers - namely the rules for wage ... accountant said that is what they should be paid regardless

Question 1. Is it okay if the Ministry of Education drops the current wage/salary attestation

requirement for ECE services?

Copyright 2016, ChildForum Early Childhood Nationwide Network 1

Lists of the comments added by respondents to their answers on a

survey regarding funding to cover the higher cost to services of

employing certificated teachers - namely the rules for wage

attestation and teachers being on the floor

For a copy of the paper “Winds of change may slam the employment of certificated teachers in

early childhood education services” by Dr Sarah Alexander, go to www.childforum.com or

contact ChildForum’s office email: [email protected]

Note that some comments have been edited for basic punctuation, grammar, spelling, language

and length. Not everyone who did the survey may have their comments shown below. The first

1,000 individual responses were counted and not everyone added a comment to each of their

responses.

Question 1. Is it okay if the Ministry of Education drops the current

wage/salary attestation requirement for ECE services?

It would be totally the opposite of what should happen and would make a mockery of

comments made by the minister and ministry about the importance of early

childhood education.

ECE teaching is qualified skilled work and should be paid accordingly. To pay less is

to discriminate against women and those in caring work.

I have already seen this being abused by employers claiming higher funding and

paying qualified teachers less than required.

People have not studied for 3 to 4 years to be put on low wages. You will get centre

owners who run poor quality centres taking advantage of the situation.

I have heard of one centre being creative about how to get around this, and I suspect

my previous boss would be jumping at the chance to drop salaries and wages to

increase her profit margin.

Sadly there will always be someone somewhere who will want to pay the least they

can. This will jeopardise quality teachers. There must be a minimum hour rate and

the ministry of education must fund centres so that they can pay professional early

childhood educators a professional wage.

This is a dumbing down of the sector and a lot of great teachers will leave the

service or people will stay in unhappy employment because they will get paid less if

they move.

http://www.childforum.com/

mailto:[email protected]




As a private owner we will still have our highly paid teachers on our books - so it will

cost us dramatically. Our teachers are worth every cent of what we currently pay

them. Young people are no longer going to study for low pay and we will end up with

a greater shortage of good teachers than we have at present.

I have been teaching for nearly three years and I have a three year teaching degree.

I am still on the basic wage of $2I.50 an hour and my employer will not even pay

yearly cost of living increases - I barely earn enough to live on. This type of move by

the MOE would allow for employers to take advantage of teachers and pay them

even less. A university degree deserves recognition by ensuring those who have the

authority, protect its value for those who are not treated fairly by their employers.

Also if the government requires ECE to provide a professional service that requires a

professional qualification they then need to expect to pay these graduates a

professional wage, with yearly increases, not decreases. If they make this move

good teachers will leave the field, not because of choice, but to earn enough to live

and the early childhood sector will find it hard to find teachers to fill the positions.

They might say targets have been reached for the number of certified teachers but if

the pay drops those teachers won’t stay in early childhood teaching.

A fair wage should be paid to all and pay parity with primary school teachers should

be looked at using the salary scale. Private owners can be greedy and I have seen

them withhold pay advancement because they don't like someone or because the

accountant said that is what they should be paid regardless of how well they work.

The MOE shouldn't be making it easier for owners to pocket more profit.

With attestation it gives teachers security that they are paid for their qualification and

experience as teachers. For the centre, it gives a minimum guideline for pay rates.

Without this there be neither.

Already lots of fantastic teachers are leaving ECE due to recent changes. This

change would just encourage more great teachers to leave, and people who are not

passionate, respectful and able to teach in a variety of ways to reach every child will

become the new teachers. Is this really what we want for our future generation?

Pay peanuts, get monkeys. To get motivated and dedicated staff the pay needs to be

a living wage and compensate for training gained.

Teachers are professionals with degree and or diploma level qualifications. There

will be no incentive for new teachers coming through to train. The early childhood

years are the most important and teachers’ salaries should reflect this.

People will not take caring for and teaching children seriously if they are getting paid

the same as a McDonalds employee. Centres will take on more volunteers and

unqualified staff taking away the knowledge needed to properly and effectively care




for and teach children. Good qualified staff will leave NZ to work for better pay and

better conditions. Essentially the children will lose out on good teachers.

It is undervaluing and "cheapening" early childhood education and teachers will

leave the profession if this happens.

It's far too little as it is. I can't believe how low the attestation rates are!

Early childhood education is just as if not more important for children's learning as

school setting the foundations for future success and if the wage drops the quality of

teachers will and there will be no incentive for people to gain qualifications in ECE.

This would be devaluing our qualified teachers although I do understand the issues

centres have in meeting salary costs... raise the funding! Value ECE, teachers being

qualified and our children!!

Quality would drop to minimal - and where does this leave the Ministry's so called

'priority learners'. This would be a colossal step backwards in education in NZ. This

would make me re-think the value education has, as a whole in NZ, and therefore re-

thinking my plans for my own children's schooling as well as my role as a qualified

teacher. I daresay our family would leave NZ if this was to go ahead.

That somebody who has major interests in profit making in ECE has great influence

on the Minister. This is not ok and can the Minister be taken to the court via the

Labour Department for making unsafe work places for the staff/teachers and

children. Does she have to see the damage she is going to do before she changes

her mind?

They want to increase participation in ECE, while undermining the professional

knowledge and skills qualified teachers have to provide high quality education for

children in the time when it is the MOST important time in a child's life for brain

development. Outrageous!

Yes - times are tough, centres are struggling.

Teachers who have gone through at least 3 years of training, plus the certification

process deserve to be paid accordingly. This move would decimate the profession

back to the days of 'child carers'. It will be an unattractive profession for any young

person.

NZ has worked hard to develop quality ECE, and to have this education sector

recognised as important for a child's development - which is why a degree is

required to become a registered teacher.

I have a degree that took four years to obtain and I still have an outstanding student

loan to pay. I want FAIR AND EAQUAL PAY reflecting the Degree that I have.




It is a key indicator of professionalism that early childhood teachers are paid at a

level that reflects their qualification. Without this wage/salary attestation exploitation

of qualified teachers would be imminent as private providers aim for higher profits

rather than a professional, motivated and valued teaching team.

There is no way this should happen. I am a qualified teacher who spent 3 years

studying and have a student loan of $20,000. As a teacher I have a lot of

responsibilities, not just caring for the children but planning, evaluation,

documentation as well as extra work that I take home. Discussions with the teaching

staff I work with all agree if this was to happen we would leave this profession. My

auntie is a receptionist who doesn’t have a student loan or qualification, has no work

to take home at the end of the day and gets paid $55,000. If anything we should be

looking at paying early childhood teachers more money. I challenge the Minister of

Education to spend a week in our shoes, taking on our role and responsibilities. I

guarantee they would not work in this field for such little pay.

The rate at which we are bound to be paid by the attestation is very pitiful as it is but

at least it's SOMETHING for the lowest paid degree qualified profession.

As someone who is currently in university to become a qualified ECE teacher I find

this insulting. We work so hard for the children in our care and the government does

not care and sees it as another number, forgetting that in the end we are enriching

the life's of the next generation of mothers, fathers, doctors, politicians and teachers.

Shall be an interesting future if they do not receive a quality start to education and

develop a passion for discovery and learning.

I have worked blood sweat and tears to earn my qualification and feel strongly

opposed to it being discredited in such a demeaning manner. If this happens for sure

I will be changing my career.

God help these children if this is the case!

Would all those years of studying be worth it - defeats the purpose of qualified staff

as we would be paid the same as relievers who have no qualifications. The quality of

ECE will worsen.

This is a step backwards for our profession! This will lead to our children becoming

less educated as teachers leave the profession for other jobs.

Qualified early childhood educators have worked, studied and invested finances and

time to gain qualifications. Their pay should reflect what they have invested and what

skills they have acquired along the way that separates them from unqualified

teachers and volunteers.

It will result in the loss of quality teachers, with detrimental effects for children.




It would be an embarrassment to New Zealand because while the rest of the world

aim to achieve 'quality' education and care for children, NZ would deliberately be

going backwards, showing a lack of care for children's education and, in return,

children's futures as contributors towards NZ society. With NZEI union and

kindergarten teachers as an exception, it would make no sense as opportunities for

work would become scarce as a result. Or on the flipside everyone may join the

union and they would, one, fight the government for their recognition as

professionals through their wages anyway, and two, struggle to get work as a union

member as employers seek to make money.

Teachers in ECE just as important as other teachers!

It would be deplorable if the current Ministry of Education do not think highly enough

of our tamariki, to provide a decent wage to those who work hard to educate them,

and keep them safe.

It will mean less qualified and less quality in our teachers.

Early childhood education is most important in building the founding blocks of

education! How ignorant are they who still do not get how fundamentally important

these early years are for future directions of people’s lives!!

It's sad primary and secondary have collective agreements... and most ECE do not

and are lower wages already!

For every dollar spent on early childhood education /intervention, governments save

that money and much more further down the track. All the research backs this up.

New Zealand was once an international leader in ECE, but doing this would be

unlikely to be an incentive to quality ECE teachers or services.

Teachers had worked and studied to get their degree. Teachers need to be paid

more for what we do - which is looking out for our young and sometime less

fortunate children.

It is not good on so many levels I don't know where to start!

No definitely not. This was put into place for a reason. The saying "pay peanuts get

monkeys" springs to mind. This is a dangerous decision. How many children will get

hurt or neglected before people in power realise the error of their ways.....not before

they blame someone else I'm sure!

Another way to devalue our profession and our youngest citizens - disgusting and

terribly sad.

If children and education make our future leaders - why would we not believe the

best teachers should be well paid!




Needs to be well above the living wage.

We need qualified teachers. Our babies are our future politicians.

People deserve pay rises not pay cuts. Teachers need to be respected by all

including policy makers.

Good early childhood educators can make a huge and positive difference to the

children and the families they are involved with. New Zealand does not have the best

record for looking after our children. Getting, acknowledging and valuing the

professionals that look after young children is one way the government can make a

difference to this poor record and lift educational outcomes for the more vulnerable

children in our society.

Quality childcare means qualified decently paid teachers.

Awful! Teachers provide our children’s education future! That’s putting the future at

risk!!!

It is a completely stupid idea. Who would want their child taught by someone earning

less than what they are worth? Do they think that they will be motivated and provide

the best learning environment for the kids?

Centres should have to show and have fully qualified teaching staff that are paid

appropriately.

ECE teachers' wages and salaries should reflect the high level of training teachers

have acquired. Teachers have worked hard to gain qualifications. Wages and

salaries should reflect this.

Teachers have knowledge that they work hard to obtain and deserve better.

Absolutely not ok! Qualified ECE teachers deserve the same remuneration as other

teaching sectors. We need highly educated and passionate people to teach our

children, how can this be achieved if the pay rate drops?

Qualified ECE teachers are already grossly underpaid for the work we do.

Without this kind of wage protection, why would we bother to run up a student loan,

to gain a degree which may give us knowledge, but not earn us enough of an income

to live on?

With increased participation in early childhood education it is more important than

ever that children receive quality care and education. By dropping the salary

attestation requirement teachers knowledge and hardworking is being completely

undermined and many may have to leave the profession. Why should teachers

become qualified if they get paid minimum wage? Our children deserve better!




It would be disgusting and very degrading after all that study and to be paid what

suits. Auckland is bad enough with the housing crisis now ECE is going to be

affected to.

No. The government wants participation by children in ECE; they require (via the

Education Council and ERO) accountability for quality and need to pay for qualified

teachers to attain this. Research clearly shows that quality is linked to qualified

teaching staff and they should be paid accordingly.

That the Ministry of Education has little to no faith in the value of tertiary institutions

who provide ECE qualifications, to the people who strive so hard to attain these

qualifications to gain knowledge on the learning and development of children, to the

whanau and parents who place their children in care and education services to be

educated. A simply ridiculous notion. Let us do the same for the political profession

or at the very least let them be devalued with their pay at minimum wages.

ECE teachers train for just as long and at a more difficult level as primary teachers

and do more hours at a harder job. These professionals are shaping the brains of the

next generation and should be paid accordingly.

It's a joke! How many quality, trained and registered early childhood teachers do you

think are going to stay? How about cutting the profits that private centres are

allowed to make from government funding and make it be put back into better

environments and quality teachers for our most vulnerable!

Professional teachers need to be paid fairly.

Why? Teachers are professionals and are trusted with little human beings to nurture

and empower. That should say it all.

This would erode the hard work done to raise the professionalism of the sector and

lower quality of care and education for the children who need qualified teachers who

understand their special characteristics in order to support their learning in the best

way.

Disgusting that they are even considering it - we work hard to do what we do so that

others can have their own careers.

Can the prime minister lead by example - and work with unqualified inexperienced

staff and show us how to do this!

Quality is what our children deserve and this comes with quality trained teachers.

They are doing highly skilled hard work and we need incentives like this to

encourage more people to train and become qualified.




This would not be acceptable, early childhood teacher work hard each day to cater to

as many children as possible for the love of the job and being paid would be

unacceptable.

We need to promote professionalism and a high standard of education right across

the sector!

Teachers should be paid according to the training and experience they bring to the

position to encourage a high standard of service in the ECE sector.

Ridiculous - we are all such hard workers and need to be valued. We are the

ambulance at the top of the cliff in most cases.

Teachers work damn hard, salary at the moment does not reflect how important

teachers are; lowering wages is going to lower the standard of care and impact on

the children and future generations.

We need quality care for our young generation and therefore teachers that have

support from the Ministry of Ed to provide this care. If you want quality teachers you

need to pay for quality!!

I did not study a 3 year degree to have a career in an area I am passionate about to

potentially be paid minimum wage. That feels like a slap in the face to both me and

my degree.

It will break some people to take a pay decrease. It will eventually come back to

reflect their work, much the same as caregivers to the elderly.

Good hard working staff need to be paid adequately to provide the services for our

current and next generations!! We didn't study and pay to study for nothing.

The pay should reflect the qualifications, and the level of responsibility.

We are trained qualified professionals creating future citizens of our country in their

first most valuable years of life. Does this not deserve respect and honour with a

high wage?

We have fought long and hard to be recognised as a professional career.

It is disgusting as most centre's I have been to, all their staff has a degree, even

masters. This would mean that the Government do not care about the future of our

country/world. They do not care about our children.

We do a 3 year tertiary degree to become qualified to look after children, this means

we are able to care for children around their needs and have informed decisions as

to what we are doing and why we are doing it.

Would it be done to any other education sector??? I think not, ECE teachers study

for 3 years to get a degree and then do 2 more years to get full registration.




Early childcare centres are the many foundations of successful people in our

community. If teachers are not valued, what is the ministry stating about our children

who are in fact our future!!!! Support our teachers for creating a brighter future...

It is not easy to be an ECE teacher; you are physically and mentally challenged at all

times. There needs to be some major changes in how ECE teachers are viewed

worldwide. We don't just teach from a check list book we work with the children to

ensure what best works for them and their learning.

This would be grossly unfair and speaks volumes about what you think of the

youngest members of our society and how you value teachers.

Our very young children deserve high quality care and education. If the salary

attestation requirement is dropped, poorly qualified low skilled teachers will be

employed. This does not equate to quality care and education. This will lead to highly

stressed children who will not be ready willing and able to learn.

ECE Teachers are professionals deserve to be paid their weight in gold, especially

as they're helping tamariki form foundations for life. If the importance of ECE isn't

recognised and valued, our society will suffer (today and in the days ahead).

We have been working so hard since the early 90s to bring ECE up to the same level

as primary and secondary. This will just undo all the hard work people have done.

This is not a job you leave at the door when you go home each day. We as teachers

are constantly reflecting and further developing our practices to benefit our children

that are entrusted in our care. We deserve a decent wage for what we put into this

job.

I have spent three years studying for something I am passionate about and they

don’t want to pay me accordingly. It is also showing that they are not thinking of our

future children and their needs to succeed in life.

It would just show that the MOE don't value early childhood teachers as actual

teachers. It makes early childhood services a babysitting service rather than a place

for children to begin their learning journey!

This is crazy! I studied 3 years and accumulated $24,000 on my student loan to gain

knowledge and practise that would not only allow me to be a great teacher, but to

paid a decent amount! The difference within the practice, view on education and

planning of teachers who have a degree and who do not is huge! Why would anyone

spent money studying if they were to be paid the same as someone who had not

studied? Therefore within a few years centres and preschools would be full of non-

qualified teachers, and where would this leave Aotearoa's children? Most likely, our

children would end up colouring in pictures printed from the computer stuck with a

mind longing to imagine, play and wonder.




If we know that the brain is growing at a rapid pace like no other time and the child's

life from birth to Six and how their needs are met determines personality and

peacefulness, we need to opt for the most funding for the best trained people to have

such huge responsibility with shaping our society of the future.

I am as qualified as a Primary School Teacher. We work far longer as we do not get

school holidays or Christmas holidays as we do not work terms. I work an 8 hr day.

Our Centre opens from 7am to 6pm Monday to Friday. We are 100% full so there is

a need for us. 90% of our families are working families. The children and families in

our Centre pay for and deserve qualified teachers. They are leaving in our care their

most precious and vulnerable family members. I do planning, learning programs and

we have an ECE curriculum. I have to keep up regular Professional Development,

my qualifications and a current first aid certificate. The Government wants us to be

advocates for children - see the Child Protection Act 2016. I am registered under the

Education Council. Therefore why should I be paid less? I am a professional with

qualifications. Research says time and time again the earlier a child is supported and

the family is supported than less is needed later on in life. So why are you now

saying we should be paid less for this support? Just because the Government

wastes money on politicians trips, cars, meal allowances, rents, clothing we are to be

cut back!!! Government has already done this once before - qualified funding

dropped from 100% to 80% now they are looking at our wages. In our Centre we

work with children from 9 weeks old to 5 years old and some have special needs.

Yes we have support for maybe 1 hr per week so who supports this child's needs the

other hrs they are enrolled - we do and you want to cut and or control our wages. I

think you know by now how I feel.

This is absurd! ECE teachers provide outstanding quality and care. This will not

continue if rates of pay are cut!

ECE teachers need to be valued more or at least as much as school teachers as we

lay the foundation to what the future adult citizens of our country will be.

It will affect the quality of care tremendously.

It should be 100% qualified teachers with pay rates that reflect this level of

qualification. Where else does a degree get paid minimum wage or only slightly

higher. Appalling and embarrassing for our country.

Very disgusting, rude, it's a kick on the teeth where I had to study for a long time and

pay a massive student loan.

No we are already feeling underpaid and undervalued as ECE Teachers by the

government. The first few years of life are the most important of all, why are we not

valued more!

Consultation has not happened.




Quality teachers equal quality outcomes for children, if qualified professional early

childhood teachers are at risk of losing the funding they earn quality teachers will be

lost from the profession lowering the quality of education.

I have studied for 3 years to become and ECE teacher. In this time I've learned

children need educated staff that are dedicated to quality education!

As ECE teachers we also pay for qualification just like every other profession to be

qualified in the job, we register with the education council just like professionals

belong to a organisation/body and making sure we are updated with current

studies/research etc. To think that ECE teachers as caregiver/babysitter is not

professional at all by the Minister/Ministry don't FORGET we are the teachers who

plant the seed and see the tree grow - we nurture, care and educate the children

perhaps the ministers should read about child development and see how important is

the first 5 years of the child, not a doctor, lawyer, or other professionals are doing it,

us the ECE teachers are there therefore to be treated and getting paid low is

demeaning.

Our children need to have highly skilled staff to provide them with the best education

and care. Brain research backs this as being the most critical years for brain

development. We need to keep qualified, skilled teachers to ensure our children

have the best start!

No because teachers need to be valued for who they are and what they do and by

dropping their salaries shows that they are not valued which will result in good

teachers resigning.

We are qualified professionals with university degrees. We are already paid less

than pretty much every other profession requiring a degree. A decision like this could

encourage quality teachers to leave the classroom. This will severely impact on the

quality care and education that children receive.

Being a qualified ECE teacher is a profession and teachers who have invested in

gaining qualifications should have wages which reflect this investment for the

wellbeing of the teachers and the tamariki in their care.

It will be an easy way for some centres to reduce the rate that they pay QUALIFIED

teachers.

How are we showing that we value our children if we aren't valuing their teachers?

I retrained under the government 10 year plan to upgrade ECE qualifications, at a

considerable cost to myself. Then they changed the rules. Now it seems we once

again being undermined because it does not suit the powers that be. When are they

going to understand we are qualified teachers, we studied for 3 years for our degree

and it should be recognised and reflected in a functional positive pay scale?




Early childhood teachers are professionals and need to be paid accordingly. Already

too many people just see us as babysitters or child minders. We are teachers and

this needs to be acknowledged there needs to be a mandatory

I did not take on a high student loan and spend years in university learning about

proper childcare, to be paid a low wage and treated like shaping the next generation

is not important. I might as well have gone onto WINZ, rather than build a career as

an early childhood teacher!

The requirements re paper work and registration are so intense. We are qualified

teachers with 3-4 years training therefore our wages should reflect this.

I believe that this will undermine the professionalism of the industry. Lower wages

may mean that prospective educators will not be attracted to the industry. Teachers

versus babysitters scenario.

It's ridiculous to undervalue our ECE teachers who are helping raise the children of

our future.

This would be ludicrous.

As a parent I want quality teachers looking after my children, not cheap substitutes.

This means paying good teachers what they are worth.

Children are the future and should have well educated well paid carers.

How private ECE’s different to a public ECE - our qualifications are exactly the same.

We should all be on the same pay scale. We have the same qualification.

I think the wage/salary which reflects a person’s education/training is useful as the

person is likely to have a lot of valuable knowledge about this sector and deserves

fair pay for this.

We have fought long and hard for a reasonable ECE teacher salary. Anything that

threatens this is not helping teachers to provide quality outcomes for children and

their families.

Early childhood years are the most important years for moulding small minds and

setting the foundations for future learning. Positive early childhood experiences

provide children with lifelong skills in dealing with relationships, how they fit in the

world and a love of enquiry and learning. This is provided by a high quality teaching

environment with teachers who have trained for years to gain the skills and

knowledge to provide a quality early learning setting and learning environment.

Teachers with a diploma or degree who hold full teacher registration should be

entitled to the same benefits as teachers in a collective.




We are highly skilled and knowledgeable educators who make a huge difference in

the lives of under-5 year olds. These years are proven to be the most detrimental if

not done correctly.

I have spent three years studying to gain a qualification in ECE - increasing my

student loans every year in the hope that I get qualified for a job that I am deeply

passionate about.

We work hard for our children and our pay is already low. Dropping our pay will

make every hard working teacher leave the ECE section.

Having qualified teachers as ECE staff is a key aspect of maintaining a high quality

ECE service, with all its benefits. Without adequate funding it will be impossible to

recruit & retain teachers. Why would anyone want to qualify as an ECE teacher if the

wage won't even allow them a liveable wage, let alone pay their student loan?

We are providing a valuable service to the community and should be given the

recognition we deserve. We provide services equivalent to police, nurses etc. and

our pay should reflect this.

The profit motive is already stripping the sector of enormous amounts of potential.

We do not need a further lowering of the already below ideal minimum standards.

So we study and spend so much money and time getting a qualification. They say

they want kiwis to stay in New Zealand this will see many kiwis leaving and not

wanting to come back.

Quality comes with a price.

We work extremely hard to educate young children, to ensure they have the best

foundations in life skills. If we can't pay people what they are worth then the passion

for teaching could diminish resulting in crime rates, lack of enthusiasm to work and

the general wellbeing of our country later on in life.

With all the hard study we do we should be recognised, what’s the point of studying if

we only going to get paid that what you can get working at a supermarket.

Will mean the quality of education will drop significantly.

Need fully qualified staff.

Firstly - Every person working in ECE took their position knowing what their pay rate

was going to be, how is it ok to suddenly change this and have them continue

working as though nothing has changed! Also, I feel that the government should

come and see what we do every day for our children and the future of NZ - I know in

our centre we put in as much effort in as possible with care and support of each

individual need. We are worth every cent at the moment with room for an increase of

pay if you ask me.




Would be a huge blow for quality teaching and learning for ECE.

No we need teachers to start to be paid what we are worth. Too many great teachers

are leaving this as a career and the families and children are missing quality

teachers and supportive teaching teams.

These people are looking after our babies! They deserve more than the minimum

wage that they will end up getting if this change is passed.

How can you expect quality outcomes for children if teachers’ wages are in jeopardy.

Giving a business the option of dropping wages of people who look after the next

generation is a bad idea!

Wages are disgusting now! With centres owned by Evolve they pay minimum wages

now and getting worse. Future of ECE with them is push wages down and fees up

and they trying to get a monopoly!

Bad news....the first 3 years of a child's life is the most important

The early years are important, we need people who know what they are doing in this

area - if you drop the wage/salary then those people will seek jobs elsewhere.

Early childhood is a profession that is building up the future of NZ.

Absolutely appalling that this is being considered - trained ECE teachers work hard

to gain recognised qualifications and should be recognised. The first three years of a

child's life are the most important and by saying teachers can be payed appalling

rates for a very important role is disgusting!

It is short sighted, and will be very detrimental to young children's learning. This will

drive the best teachers away as we already work many more hours than we get paid

for, and need to earn a living to survive like anybody else! Not a wise move to take

MOE! Think twice.

It is undermining the professionalism and therefore jeopardising the best possible

outcomes for children.

Because the first five years of a child's life are important - they are the foundation

that shapes children's future health, happiness, growth, development and learning

achievement at school, in the family and community, and in life in general. Times are

changing parents are working full time and children need a place where they are

nurtured and taught life skills!

How can people survive on a lower wage? Cost of living goes up wage goes down

unbelievable.




Teachers deserve what they're currently paid, if not more. If centres can't afford to

pay for quality staff, child education will suffer. I want only the best staff looking after

my children.

Early childhood teachers work is physical, mental and even emotional - not to

mention the paperwork that goes with it namely learning stories, self-review and

planning.

Are you kidding me? As it is I think we get disgraceful wages. We don't value

children, their parents or their teachers enough. I am sick of this been a numbers

crunching game.

The early years are a vital time for setting children up for success and need to be

recognised as such through reasonable wages for teachers of ECE.

It is an embarrassment that despite all of the research showing the most important

time we can invest in someone to achieve the best results for them and our country

/economy is in their very early years yet our government doesn't recognise this.

Looking after young children has to be a very challenging job for which a specific skill

set is required. Why should these people not be paid in recognition of their skills and

the very important job that they do. Do we not want our next generation to be looked

after by the best people possible? Why does our country place so little importance

on and investment into people when they are young and that investment is most

productive? Why do we value teaching little people less than we do adults? All the

research shows that this is backwards.

ECE teachers work hard 8 hour days plus teacher registration work planning meeting

parent evenings etc etc our work is never done and we work hard for our money .

Disgusting!!! Not only have all qualified teachers completed a minimum degree level

of 3yrs training irrelevant of whether they are in kindergarten or not. This level of

training is extremely important in the quality of care and education of our tamariki -

even more so in today’s times of rising vulnerability rates of our whanau and

children. Without the adequate training, knowledge of how to notice, recognise and

respond to these growing needs, our children are left all the more vulnerable and at

a deficit in a time vital to early intervention. Completely contradicts the government's

commitment to providing for these vulnerable children and their own legislations.

Vulnerable Children’s Act 2014.

I have been in the sector for 5 years now and am in my final year of study, I have

worked really hard and to be denied money I have worked so hard for to support my

family would be devastating 😔

ECE must have quality staff.




These ECE teachers are trained educational specialists and how can the

government who say they reward and acknowledge further training - cut wages by

dropping the attestation as though it is unskilled.

This will have a bottom line impact on the welfare of our children and in the long term

on the health of our communities and our economy. We can't afford to get this

wrong!

People train hard for years to get degrees, please pay them accordingly.

How can we expect quality education for our children if an employer can't afford to

pay for it? Disgraceful! How can we expect people to study full-time for 3 years plus

to get minimum wage? All that this will encourage is foreigners coming in, studying

and taking these jobs simply because they get to stay in this country. NOT for the

passion of teaching our tamariki!

It would be terrible. I am currently studying towards my degree, an expensive and

timely process. I think the effort and time it takes to be a qualified teacher to provide

quality education needs to be acknowledged and valued. I am passionate about

children and feel that we may have less people willing to qualify so they can provide

great education if there is no difference in pay between them and someone

unqualified.

Qualified teachers are important for the care and education of our children.

So much focus is put in primary education, but studies show that the most crucial

years in a child's development happen before school age, so why should the hard

working teachers not be paid a wage that reflects this?

Disgusting to treat teachers and children like this. Our wages have fluctuated a lot

recently and I would not be able to follow my passions working with children if this

was to happen. Low quality ECE has ramifications on all other levels in the education

sector.

ECE teachers train and work hard to ensure that they are providing inspiring and

educational experiences for the children in their centres.

They are trained professionals and should be earning more than minimum wage.

These are our babies of the future and they need the best start in life and education,

this begins in ECE services. You cannot do this with no knowledge or no

understanding in child development. ECE teachers should all be qualified and not

everyone can complete their 3+ years for training.

It would be absolutely ridiculous and a kick in the guts for all who are trying to lift the

standards of ECE. Teachers who study to gain a B.Ed. should not be paid a pittance;

they will simply leave the sector, thus leaving our children with 'babysitters'.




Why change something that's working fine?

All that we do as teachers is already undermined but in fact we play an influential

part in each and every child's life that comes through our kindergarten/centre.

Qualified teachers should have equal pay regardless of the age they teach

I will have to find another profession so I can continue to support my family. A drop in

wage will also mean I lose my house and possibly other possessions.

So they should make the study free then if that's all a degree is worth.

Our qualifications should be recognised. We are not 'baby sitters'. We as qualified

ECE educators provide quality care and education for young children so that they

have a strong foundation for lifelong learning.

This would be unfair to every person who has a degree in early childhood education.

Trained and qualified teachers are professionals who have a huge responsibility.

They should be paid as professionals. Study after study has pointed to the

importance of the early years and qualified staff are a major quality indicator.

It's like ripping out the fences at the top of the cliff... hope there's heaps of money for

ambulances.

Why are we going backwards? Stupid National government they have done nothing

but take from ECE.

We work extremely hard preparing productive early childhood learners for their future

education to be quality members of society. We should be paid our worth.

It devalues the professionalism of qualified staff. Good quality teachers will leave the

profession if this was to occur.

It is outrageous as the figure is already so low. ECE teachers should be paid the

same as their Kindergarten, Primary and Secondary colleagues

It shows the lack of child development understanding.

Wages for experienced and qualified teachers have already dropped significantly

over recent years. Soon it won't be worth the effort to study for a degree!!!!

To provide quality education for children you require well educated and informed

teachers that have studied and battled through their degrees! The lowering of wage

would counter balance the cost of a degree and put strain on thousands of families

economically.

ECE teachers train hard to get a degree; we already have to fight to be

acknowledged as a professional.




We are professionals!!!!! We've got huge student loans for what? Why doesn't the

minister take a pay cut to help out!!!

ECE is the most important time for our citizens of the future. We are not baby sitters

but highly skilled professionals. Be warned highly skilled teachers WILL leave.

We will lose lots of teachers, and then parents won't be able to work. And the

education of these children will suffer. Also no one will want to train in ECE.

Quality teaching requires quality staff. If you pay low wages, why would quality

passionate people chose this career? Value the staff, value the children.

The wages are bad enough as it is!

Why are ECE teachers not as respected as those who are primary trained? We

spend just as long at university learn all about the NZ curriculum as well as Te

Whaariki let alone we are being put down as if we have no training!

This is not ok. Our children's education needs to be the absolute best that we can

give to create competent confident communicator and learners to make a valued

contribution to society. Society's needs are having more children in early childhood

centres for longer hours and this is the starting point of their education so we need to

keep the quality and to keep the quality we need to pay for it.

People need to be paid well as we need good work done by the people working with

little people.

Qualified teachers will not get paid their worth. No incentive to become qualified.

Qualified teachers will change professions. Our tamariki need qualified teachers.

Research both in NZ ad overseas shows that staff qualifications are the most

significant factor in the quality of programs provided. There is no way the Ministry

should be considering making changes that act as a disincentive for employers to

retain/ employ qualified staff.

ECE teachers are vital members of their community and work extremely hard!

Dropping the wage will unmotivate teachers and will not offer quality for the future

tamariki.

ECE teachers do a crucial important job of educating and nurturing New Zealand's

future. All registered teachers in this country should be paid the same!!!!

I studied for three years for my degree and I feel children deserve our best and

quality teaching. Early years are really important as it starts with us and we make a

difference in such young lives. It would not be fair on us as teachers and an insult.

Teachers spend 3 years studying and have a decent size student loan and the hard

work and time spend studying should be reflective in the pay rate. I believe if the pay




is decreased then people will not study early childhood. Teachers will look for work

elsewhere including in other fields if it pays better. These children are our future and

need qualified staff that are looked after by the government.

There would be no guarantee that a quality level of teaching was present in a centre

as more untrained staff would be taken on.

It would be shame to drop the teachers’ pay rate. Parents are demanding more and

teachers are working harder than before. Because some parents can't teach their

children with basic discipline and they expect teachers to teach their children, by

dropping the rate, teachers can have this attitude like, why should I bother.

We are in a profession, where the MOE require a lot from us to give the next

generation the best start in the learning journey ahead. We trained, gain registration,

continuously attend PD to grow with our ever changing profession. Yet, we are

already on the verge of being underpaid for what we do. The ministry of education

have wanted 80% qualified teacher (potentially 100% in the future, and with the

hopes to have attendance of up 80% of NZ tamariki. We give and give as NZ

teachers, and once had a great reputation for our ECE sector.... but if we are

continually pushed, and potentially further disrespected (pay cuts) as a profession...

our sector will go the drain, and I know we will lose some amazing passionate

teachers, and in turn affecting our future generations. NZ needs well paid, and well

respected teachers! Our children will lose out! They need us!

Why did we get qualified then?

We deserve to be paid the same as primary teachers. A lot of training, PD and work

is needed to maintain certification, we should be acknowledged for that.

Like any other profession, we work hard and a lot of the times beyond the paid 8

hours and with the cost of living being so high. This will be just another big kick to

our industry and how much it is undervalued.

If there is no incentive to have trained staff then profit driven centres will only employ

untrained.

Quality funding for qualified teachers.

Early childhood teachers must be seen as the professionals they are! The first 7

years is vital to the growth and development of our children and already this is in

jeopardy for profit.

It’s hard enough on the wage I have now as a single mother, and I'm paid the

general going rate as a second year, fully qualified teacher.

Absolutely appalling - read the research. Our role is highly important in building a

functioning society.




I spent three years and worked full time to gain my qualifications, I then completed 2

years for my teacher registration. I love my job and have sacrificed time with my

friends and family to study etc. If I hadn’t been paid a training wage (generous at the

time) and now on a liveable income I don’t think I would have stayed in my

profession. And it is a profession and I am getting paid accordingly. If my wage gets

cut I will either have to upskill or move on.

I feel our job is much important than primary secondary teachers but we don't get

any recognition for it. We set the basic foundation for children to help them learn

through school etc. I feel our pay should be the same as primary school teachers at

least no less.

You will find nobody will want to study to become a qualified ECE teacher just to be

paid minimum wage. They will never be able to pay of their student loan by the time

they retire.

What an absolute joke! Good bye to quality early childhood education. And good luck

to the primary sector who are going to be left with children who are not ready to

learn.

We have fought for many years to provide quality care in ECE services. Quality staff

need to work for a fair and quality wage.

Not fair at all! Teachers are under appreciated for the amazing jobs they do.

Another demonstration of the devaluing of ECE.

They are holders of a Bachelor degree. There needs to be compensation for the

opportunity cost of their studies.

0-3 years of age as a critical brain development period. These are our children, the

future of NZ should we not be giving them the best quality teachers that we can. NZ

is leading the way in ECE, don’t change this!!!

We are the foundation of children's learning we deserve equity within the education

ladder.

Where is the value of having quality education for children, trained staff and the

value and effort of the teacher's qualifications?

This is just putting the ECE teaching profession in disrepute, saying that it is not as

important as other professions

No it's not OK our job is just if not more important that primary and high school

teachers. I've trained for four years and understand the crucial need for trained

teachers who have knowledge on how to help raise confident and capable children

that are inspired to learn.




First three and five years are so important we need to value, respect and praise

these people.

It's disgusting, they wouldn't do it to primary or secondary teachers and ECE

teachers do just as important job and help set children up for their future learning

Because we should be striving for quality education for the early years.

Why doesn't the Government recognise that ECE is where they should be putting

their money! Haven't they watched the Dunedin study! So wrong on so many levels!

Teachers need to be qualified to provide good ECE.

We have trained for years and have then had to work towards our registration to

ensure that we are providing quality foundations for the future of NZ. If we are not

paid a wage that reflects this then sadly the quality of care and number of trained

teachers will drop.

To provide quality ECE environments for the future of NZ early childhood teachers

need to feel like they matter! If this drops then qualified staff won't feel appreciated!

These years are the most crucial for long term success and we need well qualified

and experienced people teaching in ECE.

What a joke! Let's drop the politician's salary to that of other children.

If they do drop the wage/salary attestation, I can see a lot of young teachers leaving

for overseas where the remuneration is better. There will be a lot of teachers who

may leave the industry to find more lucrative work.

Terrible!! Want unqualified people walk off the street to do a job. That’s all you'll get

with low wages being on offer

EC educators are professionals who gain qualifications to educate our young, do

ongoing professional development, require specific skills to work in the sector and

their pay should reflect this.

We need to be working towards 100% qualified registered teachers who are paid

what they are worth.

We aren't placing any value on our under five year old children and making a

mockery out of the ECE Teaching degrees.

I think it is terrible. I lead a team of qualified, highly skilled educators who care about

the children we teach. I am horrified to think of what paying them less would mean.

ECE has suffered brutally under National and wage freezes have been happening

since 2010.




It took a considerable amount of time to get people to study and become qualified

teachers which in turn provided better learning outcomes for the children. Better pay

acknowledging that qualification was essential part of that process whereby the

qualified teacher's experience and skills are validated and respected.

Show some respect for not only the teachers but our children! 80% of a child's total

brain development happens before a child starts school! Therefore ECE teachers

should really be paid more as the effectiveness of their job is critical in developing

the whole child.

I believe the quality of teaching whether the teachers were qualified or not would

decrease as a result of the financial pressures put on the teachers.

These people are shaping our future! You want to pay them less than the high

school student who is scanning your groceries at the supermarket for pocket

money?!?! These teachers pour their heart and sole into each child, they deserve

more!

The system was designed for children to get the best early education so that they

could be prepared for an education system that allowed them equitable access to

society and its many facets. Teachers make the most difference; trained teachers

are a certain bet on best education for our nation.

Quality education needs quality educators that need to be paid to reflect their

qualification.

We have to train like primary and secondary teachers. Further we have to get

registered like them, so treat us like them and give ECE services the funding to

ensure 100% employment of ECE teachers. Studies prove children start learning

from birth, so more focus should be on creating quality environments for the

foundations of young children to carry their learning through all stages of their lives.

After making changes to the qualifications that were required to teach - over a

decade ago now, they now want to drop wages! It will drop the quality of education in

ECE.

No because early childhood education is important for every child. Children's

foundation for learning is built in the first 5 years.

It's undermining the importance of quality ECE teachers for the future of our nation.

Government just trying to save money for their own gain. I don't think that they really

care about ECE.

Professional knowledge is essential for teachers with children at the most significant

time for their learning. You pay peanuts you get monkeys is a phrase that comes to

mind!




I am in my third year of my early childhood teaching degree and there is a large

amount of knowledge and theory I have learnt during this time that I wouldn't have

learnt otherwise. Not even through having children of my own. I question the

government. Do you want professionals guiding our tamariki or anyone off the

street? We are not babysitters or childminders we are educators who are passionate

about human development and nurturing all tamariki! When will the government look

at the research that proves the early years are very important and take early

childhood educators seriously!!!!

This will just lower the quality of ECE. Teachers are our greatest resource for

centres and should be recognised as such.

I for one as a parent want the teachers looking after my children to be valued and

appreciated and in turn will show our children the same respect.

Education is a citizen’s right. It gives all children to achieve in the right environment.

Teachers provide the right environment, through qualifications and registration, the

responsibility required by a teacher is reflected in their ability to observe analyse

state and review - hourly. An untrained adult cannot. To retain teachers in the

profession, in cities, in the country - they need to be paid as Teachers. These

proposals mean teachers will be earning less than other unqualified professions.

All of my children have been cared for in centres where qualifications are valued and

encouraged. Poorer families are at risk due to them making childcare decisions

based on cost at expense of quality. These kids need the quality the most.

To protect the professionalism of ECE teachers they need to be paid as teachers. To

protect children and support family’s teachers need to be trained and engage in

ongoing professional development. Employing low paid workers will result in a

service of babysitters who have no shared understanding of child development and

societal impacts on families.

This will drop the quality of ECE that children and families receive. All the research

proves that quality is crucial for brain development in the first years of life. This will

set us up for children who fail!

All trained and qualified early childhood teachers should be encouraged to be

members of union to secure their investment (the time and money spent training)

and uphold the status of the sector as making a valued contribution to society by

providing quality early learning experiences for tamariki and whanau.

ECE is just as important as other sectors!

You pay peanuts you get monkeys. You want this for our nation’s children? I don't!

The price of living is rising not dropping.




I want a quality early childhood education for my child! I want them to be taught by

qualified teachers!

Is a person’s development and education worth so little? Just because we teach (yes

TEACH) children under 5, does not mean we or the hold deserve less and this is

what would happen. Quality in care and education would drop hugely. Are our

children worth so little? Would the same proposition be given to secondary and

primary teachers? Just because we teach a younger age group, does not mean it's

an easy job.

Quality wages attract quality professionals. If we want quality education in the ECE

sector we need to pay for it.

I think teachers are worth what they are paid now and should never go any lower.

Professionally trained, registered teachers should not be insulted with this

undermining attempt at cost cutting.

If I get paid minimum wage for bringing up other people's children, I'll leave teaching

and work at McDonalds

ECE teachers work like slaves, no time to relax. They do so much bending & lifting

that by the time they have worked 5 to 6 years, most have back problems. ECE is

hard work

It just completely undermines the work and effort we have put into gaining those

qualifications and practising certificate.

I retrained as an Early Childhood teacher. I have two degrees and paid the same

fees as other sectors this is a no brainer.

Early childhood teachers are qualified too, and they do the best job as other

educational sectors. We are teachers not babysitters.

Would any tertiary educated professionals except a low wage? Our work is vital to

the educational success of New Zealand children and this should be reflected in our

remuneration.

If this becomes a reality, passionate early childhood educators will be lost to the

sector.

It will result in poor educational, social, emotional, mental and physical outcomes for

children

Research shows that quality childcare helps create confident and competent

learners which leads to productive adults

The first 3 years are the most vital in child development. If more money was invested

into our young children and qualified teachers there would be much better outcomes




for our children in future. Less money spent down the line fixing the problems

(ambulance at the bottom of the cliff).

You will lose the current teachers. This industry is hard enough and you will lose

people if you lower the wage. Our children deserve quality and quality costs. They

are our future and the first five years are imperative.

It's already a battle to be recognised as professionals who train to be qualified

'teachers' and to have this happen would be a complete joke!!

Attestation is one way to ensure ECE teachers are being paid a wage that reflects

their worth. It is also a way to ensure fees and funding are used to support the

realisation of quality care and education rather than go towards profit for

shareholders.

Disgusting! Research proves early years are most important years but yet

government’s not showing this.

Then we should have free education for all and no student loans.

By reducing the salary they will reduce the quality of teaching and care. There will be

a decrease in the number of people who will study Early Childhood qualifications.

This will create a shortage of high quality teachers with a follow on effect of a poor

education system for our children.

Shows no value of training and work put into becoming qualified teachers

ECE spend a lot and time and money trading and a lot of them are dedicated to the

children they teach ECE is career not a job

Teachers need to be recognised for the job they do. Don’t go undermining quality

Teachers work hard and gain a lot of invaluable knowledge during training and while

working, we are not paid enough as it is!! Doing this would drastically decrease the

quality of teaching in our services.

We train hard (those of us with degrees do the same amount of training as those in

primary and secondary schools!) we are responsible for precious beings who will

shape our future.

This will put our ECE back to the status of the 1980's before such things as funding

changes brought in by the Labour Government. We lost the 100 percent qualified

what else will we lose?

Already teachers in the ECE are stressed, mentally and physically. They endure so

much need and demand from many children and families in one day. Early childhood

are the most crucial years of a person’s life, the first 3 years are especially important.

This will only create an even more stressful environment where passionate teachers




will become run down and taken over by people who don't know what they are doing.

Already the 20% of unqualified teachers (in some but not all cases) hinders the

quality of a child’s day. Some of these children spend longer in a centre then we

adults do at work! They are our future and should be a priority.

This will drastically decrease the quality of care and education provided to our

children of New Zealand.

Teachers are valuable assets to society and support our young children to become

the best they can be. It is vital teachers’ salaries reflect the valuable work they do or

the standard of care and education they provide to children will drop. Also teachers

work very hard already, and are underpaid compared to many qualified roles. The

government should show that they value them by paying them a decent salary!

Otherwise the best teachers will leave the education sector.

It will lead to a drop in wages and the loss of qualified teachers. I would leave my job

if forced to sign a minimum wage contract.

I want to see it remaining as it is to stop exploitation and keep everyone on an even

playing field

No coz everything is expensive and everyone has family to support.

People have put years and lots of money into getting their degree. How pathetic is it

to be done over like this. ALSO not all of the centres provide just a run a round place

for children to attend some are truly teaching our children. This will only fall back on

primary school teachers where consistency and structured routine children will not

enter school. This is pathetic.

Not paid enough as it is!

This will mean any ECE service could offer minimum wage, it totally alters the

playing field, and owners that are only in the sector for profit will stand to gain, while

the teachers miss out. What incentive is there for teachers to train if there is

potential for minimum wage?

The ability to provide quality education and care is tied directly to the ability to attract

and retain qualified dedicated staff.

It would greatly reduce the quality of children care provided. Teachers would need

two jobs to afford to live therefore added stress to children and teachers.

With the amount of paper work required this job is not only looking after children and

educating them but contains a lot of necessary paperwork.

It is undervaluing children and educational professionals.




I think it's unfair for the teachers who have great passion for working with children,

who have studied hard and been paying student loans for diplomas and degrees to

get such low recognition no one with a diploma or degree should get paid less than

they are worth if wages are dropped our student loans should be paid in full by the

NZ government! I know personally if this happens I will no longer be an ECE teacher

or living in NZ. You will lose a ton of teachers.

The government has absolutely no clue about the importance of quality teachers in

ECE and even educating them seems to fall flat...they are risking the quality of ECE

by ignorance and stupidity

With a degree they are professionals and deserve to be paid as such, not as

unqualified staff.

Does anyone know how much paper work the qualified teachers are doing related to

children's learning?

I have worked blood sweat and tears to earn my qualification and feel strongly

opposed to it being discredited in such a demeaning manner. If this happens for sure

I will be changing my career.

I believe that wages need to reflect on what qualifications staff have completed,

funding should be higher then what it is now as qualified staff are paid good wages

and most centres struggle as huge cost goes out to wages.

Qualified = Quality. Qualified Teachers deserved to be paid qualified wages, as their

counter parts (kindergarten teachers) we do the same job, under the same criteria;

we should be paid the same wage. Is this discrimination?

Research shows quality care in the younger years impacts the future therefore

acknowledging the importance of qualified ECE educators is paramount to the future

of children's education.

The attested to amounts are still low for teachers they should be a bare minimum.

Degrees require a pay rate deserving of the training they have undertaken. And the

skilled teachers deserve to be treated as worthy members of the ECE centre.

There is a major disparity between the governments perceptions of 'Quality ECE'

and the concerning reality of the opposite occurring if funding is cut. Teachers are

already under extreme pressure to maintain quality care and and if funding for

teacher salaries is cut there will no longer be incentive for qualified staff to want to

stay in this already demanding industry.

I have just spent $20k+ on my bachelor's degree, which I would have never

undertaken if I thought I could neither pay this loan back and earn a living wage - so

now my own children will live in poverty?




Early childhood teachers are the start to good education for future children! This is

disgusting, I've paid $25,000 for a student loan and be qualified. The government

should pay teachers in general a generous wage.

This totally devalues education for Early Childhood. The government has been trying

to get more children into before school education!!! Qualified teachers have a

teaching degree and are very skilled and do a huge amount to prepare a child for

starting school.

We need to be recognised as the professionals we are, paying a decent rate is one

way to do this.

I think their wages should rise; they're invaluable to our youth education.

That is just ridiculous. It's not like we are a 'well paid' area as it is and funding isn't

enough as it is. Stupid, stupid idea.

It is cumbersome and in reality, does little since few are audited.

If anything, wages should be increased for qualified ECE teachers and more funding

pumped into enticing more males into the profession. Early childhood is a crucial

time in a child's development; especially with the way our country is now set up to

basically force parents back to work earlier in a child's life in order to pay the bills.

Absolutely horrified. There is no argument that the early years of a child’s life are of

the uppermost importance for learning and development and if you have adults in

charge of young children who don’t understand young children's brains, muscle,

mind development then I am afraid NZ next generation is going to be a disaster.

This would be a major tragedy! Totally ridiculous.

In the short term this may very well be a viable cost reduction strategy but why would

a student contemplate an Early Childhood qualification if they cannot get a

professional wage at the end of it? Personally I think this move would result in a lot

of Auckland ECE teachers seeking alternative employment options to meet the rising

cost of living (this could possibly impact all major cities) and tertiary enrolments

would decline dramatically.

Takes away the value of ECE teachers. Employers are no longer accountable, some

not all will end up paying qualified staff below what their value is.

A three year degree and student loan all so you can earn more at Pak n save and

have none of the stress that comes with teaching! The sector will lose good quality

teachers.

What a joke. Teachers make the difference to kid’s education.




ECE teachers teach, love and support our children at crucial early years of

development.

Our children’s development does not fit into a 4 year election plan!

It's a profession, not just any job. We study for years and get student loans. We

educate our future adults!

ECE is the most crucial part of a child’s development and how they grow is

determined by what teachers provide. Teachers already spend so much extra time,

their own time and money providing the best education for children under 5. It would

be a kick in the guts for teachers. You will not only be taking away from teachers but

the children they teach.

For so many reasons Early Childhood Educators should be paid MORE and not less.

The fact that the Ministry wishes to cut Special Ed funding in Primary schools,

redirecting it (supposedly) to ECE so that children can be 'fixed' before they start

school, but is also willing to have ECE educators paid peanuts, is but one very good

example of how messed up the current National government’s MoE thinking is.

It enables employers to pay less, putting more strain on teachers who already work

above their required hours. By doing so it makes qualifications irrelevant to move up

the ladder in your career and will discourage people to become qualified in the

industry.

Would lawyers or doctors let this happen that they were funded per patient and

whether or not they were achieving targets. Definitely not. We have worked to

achieve a degree just like any other profession.

Totally de-values the role of ECE teachers.

Our teachers and early childcare educators work extremely hard for long hours,

many of which are outside their paid hours. They deserve more pay, not less!!!

These people are the future for our children; please pay them what they deserve!!!

In doing this we will lose our superb ECE teachers - they'll need to leave to earn a

proper wage to live. I don't believe they are paid enough as it is let alone drop the

wage. These teachers are invaluable to the development of our young children - we

WILL lose them!!

As a ECE teacher there is more involved than just looking after children...I work at

home to keep up with the work load the ministry requires ... Not fair

We are professional trained and qualified teacher doing a very important job.

Pay for professional services, we are highly regulated so why not pay accordingly?




Disappointed - our children are our future and deserve better. Without appropriate

pay good teachers will be lost. You get what you pay for. Pay shit and get shit

teachers who don't care about the children and don't provide them with the

appropriate interactions and experiences. You will get paid more to be a nanny.

Good luck even having a field of ECE teachers. How will teachers be able to afford

to live and provide for themselves let alone their family? Look at the housing prices!!

Petrol!! Food!!

What kind of quality will children receive if centres employ unqualified staff, our

education system will worsen.

Why would you even spend thousands of dollars on studying to become an ECE

teacher when you don't get paid what you are worth at the end of it? The govt need

to open their eyes, 0-5 years are the most crucial in a child's life, therefore you need

quality teachers who know what they are doing and know how a child learns and

develops.

Teachers deserve to be paid better. They do so much and get qualified so deserve

better not less pay.

Teachers are uniquely valuable to ensure our children are cared for well, growing in

confidence and develop those fundamental everyday skills socialising, leaning to

deal with situations, learn about the social physical and material world and more.

Teachers need to be paid rightly, if that means reducing what they're already on; is

an injustice. I started on $22 an hour as graduate teacher 5 years ago I'm now on

$24.50 like $2.50 more as a fully registered teacher an increase of .50cents a year. I

guess we teachers are already not valued enough. Seeing the Ministry wants to cut

hourly rates down a dollar or 2, sooner or later we maybe not afford rental houses in

Auckland, using food banks to keep us an family sustained. Do not cut down on

teachers’ pay it will have a detrimental effect as teachers will go overseas. We want

to build great children in quality ECE. Investment in ECE & teachers will enhance

our country at large!

Early Childhood Teachers are qualified professionals and deserve to be well paid.

1.) Degree trained people don't deserve to have their qualification belittled. We

worked very hard to get our qualifications and paid out a lot of money to complete

them. 2.) ECE teachers won't be able to cope financially and will look elsewhere for

work. This means that, there won't be good quality teaching happening for children.

You will have terrible learning outcomes for children as unknowledgeable people will

step in and try to take in the role- unsuccessfully. 3.) Parents won't feel comfortable

putting their child in a centre that lacks skilled, knowledgeable professionals and

then may have to stop working themselves - which will have a huge impact on the

economy. I for one will be looking into a new profession if this comes to pass.




For quality early childhood education to be available for children, qualified teachers

need to be remunerated for their qualifications and experience. Without quality ECE

services that demand skilled professionals, children will suffer.

Qualified teachers are necessary for early childhood to ensure under-fives receive

the best opportunities to build neural pathways in the Brain for life learning.

Ministry clearly do not see the importance of ECE!

No. You get what you pay for. If you require teachers with knowledge of child

development, life experience and child disposition you perhaps need teachers with

this educational understanding and degree qualification to work with New Zealand's

preschool children. What value is now being placed on early education? Will the

Ministry drop the wage/salary then of our counterparts in Primary, Secondary and

University teaching?

These are people who have worked hard to become qualified. What is the incentive

to get qualified or work in a place with the expectations that are placed on us?

The amount a work required from an early childhood teacher is worth way more. If

my pay would to be cut I would be expecting to do less work. No more self-reviews,

reflections, learning stories.... It's a profession not a job.

This is a high skilled and valuable professional catering for our most vulnerable

people.

Us teachers are so valuable and they would want to cut our already low pay? We

raise and educate the future

I’ve worked hard to get to where I am today so I can provide a higher than average

wage to support my family and I would be disgusted if that was taken away,

Would be appalling decision making - ethics unprofessional, empathy of teachers

lost and compassion for the sector - sad.

Teachers put time and effort into gaining their teaching degree, as well continuously

completing work for their teacher’s registration and on-going PD. We are just as

much of a teacher as primary and secondary.

They deserve their wage.

Staff who have earned a degree should be paid accordingly.

We go through 3-4 years of tertiary education to provide New Zealand children/ NZ's

future generation with the best possible start to life and education!

If we want to retain qualified quality teachers we need to leave this requirement in

place.




That would be disgusting - I thought the government were supposed to be looking

out for the next generation to stop the current situation?

We want quality care and education for our little ones!

We need qualified experienced staff to work within ECE. There is a lack of

understanding from non-qualified staff at times. Qualified staff need to be paid

accordingly. Is it ok to dip into children's future and not give them the best start,

building their foundation of life?

ECE teachers have a very important job that greatly impacts the lives, and

development of our children. They are trained to do this, and should be paid

accordingly

There are plenty of research and studies that are showing that first 3 - 5 years are

crucial for children's learning and development. Then what would be the outcome of

any non-qualified person teaching children in these crucial years. And if we need

qualified teachers why would you pay them a wage which can easily be earnt just by

working in a hospitality or retail sector?

Already we work in a sector which is undervalued. By dropping the wage, the sector

will lose qualified and skilled staff which will then only result in poor quality educators

replacing them. The repercussions for children and their families will be devastating.

If this happens it only emphasises how little the government values the education of

young children in this country and their future.

Education is the future of NZ.

All teachers should have some qualification, with 80% to degree level, centre

attesting to this should be rewarded accordingly.

With all research highlighting the importance of the early years (including NZ based

research) how is this initiative even being entertained?

We are paid the least but we should be paid more as it is.

Loss of many trained teachers - why would anyone spend so much to get qualified

for a job they could do unqualified for same money. Loss of qualified teachers would

drop quality within early childhood centres would also drop. I myself have just spent

nearly $4000 to do a refresher course to keep my practicing certificate; this gives me

the qualified wages. I my wage was not higher, why would I want to spend so much

money?

ECE teachers are professionals, we have qualifications and our pay rates should

reflect our qualifications and experience.

If the wages drop for teachers good quality early childhood teachers will leave the

education sector. They will use their skills to earn themselves more in another field.




We will say goodbye to valuable teachers which will affect the quality of the ECE

service and the start in life that parents not only want for their children but what I

believe our children deserve.

Absolutely unfair and degrading to our studies and hard work and dedication.

This is disgusting and demeaning to those who have invested their time and money

in gaining qualifications to teach very young children. It is a specialised area of

education especially as research is continually discovering just how important early

learning is to determining a child future success in life. I am appalled that the ministry

would even be considering such a move. The ministry sets such high standards for

care and education of young children and those working in the sector deserve

decent recompense for the effort they put in on a daily basis. This idea is just shit to

be crudely honest and quite typical of a government continually intent on teacher

bashing. It will have a detrimental effect on those working in the sector who are often

very poorly paid especially if they work the private sector where profit for the owner

is paramount!

This won’t promote quality early childhood education or success for Maori learners!!

Teachers train hard, work hard, and should be recognised.

We are talking about trained and qualified professionals educating and caring for the

next generation, not your neighbours 14 year daughter sat in front of a DVD whilst

your kids sleep. Any government that values our children’s education, and those

trained to teach, so lowly will never get my vote.

This is a travesty!! ECE teachers spend about 3 years and thousands of dollars to

become qualified and to not get paid our worth is ridiculous!

Does quality not count anymore? Less paid qualified teachers could possibly mean

less work, why should we put in the hard work to be paid less? We are not baby

sitters, we encourage, support and guide children to become competent, capable

learners. What's the point in studying to better ones self to be educated so that it all

gets flushed down the toilet for nothing?

The job of an ECE teacher is laborious and mentally taxing. The salaries must be

increased instead of dropping.

Teachers need to be qualified and have an income that recognises the qualifications.

No one will bother spending money to get a qualification if it is not valued.

If this happens people who are not trained will be able to look after children and not

know what is best for their wellbeing and learning! I'm disgusted that this could be

the case as I trained for 4 hard years to get the knowledge and qualifications I

needed to give quality care for tamariki! If the early childhood sector is not seen as

'paramount' foundations for learning with children in NZ then there needs to be a




serious change in what the government’s outlook is! 6 years it's taken me, 4 of study

and 2 to become registered. If this happens I don't even think I could survive on what

would be given to me as a wage.

This is shameful and suggests that children under five don't need qualified teachers

to provide high quality education for them. Teachers have worked hard to be seen as

professionals.

This is absolutely disgusting. We nurture, care and help these children grow and we

wear so many hats in our profession.

At the rate of pay I currently receive I feel valued as a professional and it inspires me

to work hard.

It is ridiculous to even think of paying ECE teachers less, especially if we are

experienced qualified staff. It would mean goodbye to a lot of good teachers if they

do.

Where is the accountability from the government for early childhood services?

If you drop the wage more people will quit, who's going to educate our future

generation then?

The cost of living is high; dropping pay rates will make life difficult for many!

There are some teachers I know who are being paid less than their current

wage/salary attestation requirement for ECE services due to the current loopholes. I

can imagine that more teachers will get the same treatment when the employers are

'allowed' to do it. Teachers carry big responsibilities for the future of the country.

Being paid so much lower than other graduates who are in other professions is just

not right.

ECE teachers are professionals with many having a Bachelor in ECE. We have the

knowledge, skills and passion to provide quality care and education for the children

in our care. We deserve a pay rise.

Are we not further showing that young children are not important by decreasing

funding, qualifications and wages/salaries to the amazing teachers that work with our

precious young children?

We study hard and get our degrees so the future generations have the best start in

life.

It isn't right - young children deserve the best education to. That means paying for

quality staff.

I have studied hard to complete a 3 year degree for what!!!




Having studied in Scotland for 3 years to be told by the NZ Teacher Council my

degree came out at 6 and NZ wanted all teacher's to be a level 7 I studied once

again for another 3 years to gain a bachelor of education. I feel this would be a total

lack of respect for teachers who hold a degree and they place no value on what we

do for the tamariki in our care.

Funding supports the quality within any centre. Qualified teachers have spent three

years gaining a qualification. The morale of all teachers would drop to pay less.

We teach children the skills they need in order to be able to do academic schooling

which is important for the future of this country.

Definitely not, there will be so many implications for this...... we have fought so hard

to develop professionalism in the early childhood sector and to been seen as

professionals. By lowering early childhood teachers’ pay and under-valuing early

childhood teachers quality service drops, teachers have burn outs, it will have such a

roller ball effect. It makes me soooo angry that the ministry of education think this is

ok. When does it stop? We have already had so many bad changes happen to the

education system such as dropping percentage needed for qualified early childhood

teachers and funding cuts. We do not want our country to be classed as a third world

country and if things keep going the way they are this is what we will end up as.

What would be the point in spending hundreds of thousands gaining a qualification if

teachers won't be paid a fair wage? Children are soaking in so much information in

the first five years and with so many children in 'care' there should be an expectation

that they are receiving quality care while they attend. If you lower the wage for

teachers maybe you should start paying stay at home Mums, there are many of them

who do as much work as a kindergarten teacher in their own home for the benefit of

growing the tamariki.

ECE teachers are the most important of all teachers.

This will devalue our profession, and impact negatively on our children's early

childhood education.

We have worked hard to get to where we are and we educate young children.

Early childhood teachers make a big difference to young children's lives and this

should be reflected in their wages.

Given that this is a job which needs a qualification, dropping the attestation is crazy.

It makes the university years spent studying an absolute joke. All what it will do is

dumb down the market of ECE teachers - why would someone go to university, rack

up a student loan only to get paid the bare minimum? Might as well do something

which doesn’t require further training.




No, just like every other sector of education we work hard, do late and long days. We

have studied for 3 or more years and have had to do 2 years registration just like

everyone else so why is it that our profession is less important and clearly we are not

worth or valued as qualified and highly skilled teacher regardless of it being an ECE

sector.

ECE teachers barely get paid the living wage already. They study anywhere between

6 months and 5 years - how on earth are they supposed to pay back your precious

student loan fees with that?

What's the point in me spending $30,000 on my own education for the government to

turn around and do this!

There are many who are trained and teaching in the NZ ECE sector who strives to

make this education work for all children and aim to be the best that we can. Taking

this away encourages private centres to opt for a cheaper wages bill and therefore

risks the quality we aim for, any incidences that may arise from this highlights and

reflects on the sector as a whole.

Quality over equity, why do a job with so much extra paper work when you could go

work in a supermarket for more than minimum wage with no stress as there isn't all

the paper work attached.

Why should our qualifications basically count for nothing?

ECE services are struggling as it is.'

Children need education. Early childhood education gives youngsters the skills and

confidence they require to perform well at school. If the wage drops, so will the

quality of the teachers in ECE services.

People won't want to do it anymore.

The first years are vital for development; we need qualified, knowledgeable teachers.

Our job is so important!!!! Skilled educators set up children's attitudes for lifelong

learning.

We are barely recognised as professionals as it is. At the end of the day the majority

of us have done a 3 year or even four year degree. This needs some recognition and

pay is one of the ways which reflects value!

The early years are so important for children and the teachers work so hard!

What the heck are they thinking!! I didn't do a 3 year degree and clock up $25,000

loan for this.




It's disgusting really as we have worked hard to become qualified professional

teachers, yet we are never really treated as such. Teachers of a high standard would

leave so children will suffer.

The sector has worked hard to raise its status as a valued profession... this change

would be a major setback and would raise serious concerns about the quality of care

for our tamariki in the future.

It's disgusting, the government needs to ensure trained teachers are providing care

and education for 0-5 year olds, do they not understand how important this time is for

the children's learning & development! Trained teachers deserve above and beyond

the current minimum pay and taking it away will decrease quality in the sector

No, it is not ok for the Ministry to drop the wage of ECE teachers as the Government

has asked that all teachers be qualified. This has resulted in teachers working so

hard in the industry whilst juggling families, kids and other commitments. The

government has no right to take away the wages that reflect the quality they are

asking us to put into out our teaching and care of NZs tamariki!

Teachers should be paid according to their qualification regardless of what service

they work for (kindergarten, day care, community based, etc).

Early childhood is the most critical time for future success of any human. Valuing

access to services is important.

Early childhood teachers have the most important role in teaching of children than do

any other age group. These teachers are imperative to best learning outcomes for

our future generations. Paying them a lesser wage than what their counterparts in

primary and secondary school get is ludicrous and shows that the government

places no value on our future generations.

I feel a lot of teachers are struggling to afford to care for their own families on the

current wages with increased food prices and rent payments. Teachers will also then

struggle to get into their first homes as they will not be able to afford mortgage

repayments either.

The quality of ECE will naturally go down.

We are trained in this profession and we build the foundations to our next

generation. We do an important job as we know parents have to work and they are

getting good care. Shame on you government!

Qualified teachers have trained long and hard for this qualification, often accruing

substantial debt in the process. Most teachers go into this job because they want to

be able to inspire and make a difference in the lives of young children. The hours

are already hard and long enough, with many teachers working above and over their

contacted hour. Attending lengthy meetings, planning and professional development




all I their own time. Dropping the pay rate is just going to force these passionate

teachers to want to leave, and then be replaced by people who are not passionate or

qualified, to work with our precious young children.

We go to university and study extremely hard, plus we have to pay back all that debt

I think we should be entitled to more pay than unqualified teachers.

We have worked hard to maintain this, how can they suddenly take it away?

Early Childhood Teachers educate and care for the most fragile members of our

society hence should be compensated with the big responsibility upon their

shoulders.

We want quality for our children. They are our future.

Early childhood is a crucial time in a child's life. Teachers have to train as long as

school teachers and have to undergo a lot to keep their registration updated. Our

wages need to reflect those efforts

The govt pays a large proportion of the operational costs of an ECE service through

Vote Education, so as a taxpayer I want to be certain that there are some

requirements to ensure the best workforce for children, and 'reasonable' pay and

conditions has been shown by research to be one of those things (leading to a more

consistent workforce and consequent better developed relationships, etc). Minimum

wage rates (and I think other minimums could be added) is a reasonable

requirement for the extent of the operational subsidy.

Rates of pay are already low and to do this will undermine this.

One of the most important jobs, helping to raise future citizens should have as much

investment as the country can afford.

A well-trained and skilled ECE Teacher is valuable and worth investing in.

All ECE teachers whether in Kindy or private sector should be paid the same

amount! There should be no distinction just because the government supports the

kindergarten association. This gives them a really unfair advantage over the private

sector.

Mrs Parata says that more money is to be put into ECE for targeting children with

special needs. These children need specialist teachers. If teacher pays in this

sector decreased, specialist teachers would move out of ECE into other more

lucrative sectors. Where would this leave our vulnerable - let alone the many

others?

This is a hard job that no one should do for less money. There will be a drop in care

and standards




Disturbing idea for the government to do this. Teachers deserve to not go down the

ladder. Education is what makes us grow and unite as a country.

Would they do this for the primary sector? We are all trained teachers, primary

school teachers can work in ECE, we can work in primary until the child is 9. MOE

set the curriculum age. All the research shows how important the early years are for

children to become lifelong learners so why are the ECE sector being treat as less

than a professional?

We work hard to nurture and care for our future generations. Why should our effort,

time, knowledges, experiences, passion and personal sacrifices for ECE be

compromised by having our wages deducted? If anything, wages/salary/funding

should be increased to acknowledge our efforts. ECE teachers provide these

children with the foundational tools to support their exploration and investigation as

their learning adventures move up the societal ladder.

It took just over three years to get my Diploma with lots of study and late nights and

bringing up my children on my on to achieve this and become an early childhood

teacher which I love doing. Now you are trying to say it was a waste of my time that

I’m not worth all the sacrificing I did to make a better life for my family. Would you

take your child to an unqualified doctor no you would not, our children are our future

they need the best from us. To be the best teacher I can be is important to me and to

your children do not undervalue us ever.

This can't possibly happen to teachers who are so important in shaping our

tamariki’s lives. We need qualifications and to be paid correctly.

People who are educated should have some framework around their pay scales.

The industry will lose so many fantastic teachers if this happens as they will go into

better paid fields of work. This will affect the quality of care and education our young

children receive. We don't want to go backwards!

Our daughter currently receives excellent care/ education. Children need the best

possible start in life so require teachers in ECE who are valued and paid well.

It could leave teachers at the mercy of unscrupulous employers. Also if the

government wants the quality and the teachers testing children's achievements then

they should have the same protection as school teachers.

Qualified teachers in ECE sector have worked hard over the last 13 years to try and

have pay parity with Kindergarten Teachers. To have the whole thing pulled out from

under our feet is shocking and undermines the work we do.

This is a professional sector and is of utmost importance. The early years are so

important and this should be reflected in qualified staff who understand the needs of

infants and young children.




There will be NO incentive to train if wages drop. It will actually be a disincentive to

train as you would incur training debt that would not be justified. Without staff having

their years of education recognised there is no incentive to stay in the industry and a

lot of disgruntled staff would fall away and leave early childhood education in a

parlous state.

We need to value our teachers more not less.

I didn't study for 4 years (paying over $40,000+ in fees) to be paid the same wage as

an unqualified teacher!

Teachers are under-paid as it is. Children's education should be about quality not

profit.

ECE teachers are dealing with the most valuable assets for our future, children.

Dealing with children is so much different than just being in the office looking into the

computer. We are faced with challenges and sometimes irate parents and we have

to swallow our pride. I reckon we should be paid like how doctors are paid!

Pay our teachers what they are worth as they are teaching the future of New

Zealand. Why is it that teachers are so under-rated in society?

Disgusting, disgruntled, no quality in action on the floor if this goes ahead.

Passionate teachers leaving the profession.

I have trained for 3 years at a cost of 20K to get my ECE Degree and do something I

love. I, like most teachers in the sector are already overworked, dealing with

numerous issues surrounding our chosen career. I believe we do this with the best

professional attitude we can muster most days. I make ends meet on my $22 an

hour and have been waiting for a pay raise for the last year while living costs have

increased. This idea of dropping salary is an insult to what we do. The old saying if

you pay peanuts - you get monkeys is exactly where this will head!!

I feel like this would be VERY unfair as we teachers study the 3-4 years at university

and go further on to another 2 years 'study' to become registered. Why should we be

paid any less when we have worked hard for our qualifications!?

It is an already demanding job and as teachers should be paid just as other teachers

are.

Inhumane! We are teaching and caring for children during the most important time of

their development! We have degrees does that not count for anything?

Teachers work just as hard if not harder than office jobs, we are responsible for lives,

education, provide love and care.... So why pay teachers less than what they

deserve?




Need to pay at least a living wage. Really though we need to be remunerating our

teachers appropriately for the valuable job they do in educating our future.

Pay has an influence on quality which in turn has a money-saving influence on later

health, justice and productivity.

If the Government were to do this, they would then be ignoring the quality and much

needed outcomes for our youngest citizens and society! To do this would be

ludicrous! Why is it not common knowledge that early childhood is where it's at! If we

don't get the early years right it can have detrimental impact on the future lives of

these children. More emphasis and value must be placed on the early childhood

sector! Our future relies on it!

Teachers need a protected minimum rate to avoid being exploited. A three year

degree and professionals deserve to have remuneration reflecting this.

We are highly trained professionals looking after the next generation. Why should a

builder or a plumber or a Pak n Save or a person working in KFC get more than

someone who has studied for 5 years plus continual professional improvement?

We are professionals in our chosen area of study who have a passion for children's

education and should be paid accordingly.

Qualified ECE teachers are extremely knowledgeable professional practitioners and

this would be an absolute kick in the face, undermining the entire profession. We

are already not paid even close to what we should be.

Quality early childhood education is fundamental in ensuring children have the best

possible start on their learning journey. Quality comes about when centres have

qualified, registered teachers providing quality programmes that support that.

This profession is one that has required teachers to train for 3 or more years and be

registered which is vital to becoming the best teacher you can be. If we wanted or

expected for our pay not to reflect this then why all those years of hard work

studying? All those sleepless night doing assignments and all their practicums in

other centres struggling with NO pay and putting a toll on our families financially and

emotionally to be paid minimum wage? If that's the case then we would have chosen

a job requiring less experience and not study required.

Absolutely ridiculous! We do so much more than just teach also we do way more

than 40 hrs a week.

ECE teachers are your child's first teacher it's an important role.

What value do you put on our children’s education people? Its ok for you politicians

to get wage increases but the people who look after our next generations are not

being paid enough.




Teachers study hard to get their degree, work hard to maintain a professional

workplace and exciting environment for children. Teachers need to be regarded as

professionals and dropping the attestation pay scale would underestimate their level

of professionalism.

Absolutely not - early childhood teachers are underpaid and undervalued as it is.

This would be just downright insulting.

If you pay peanuts you get monkeys. I worked hard to be where I am in my career

and am just on ok money now after qualifying in 2009. ECE will lose a lot of good

teachers if they change this.

I did not spend $15,000 to study my butt off while working and raising my family to

be out on minimum wage!!!

Every dollar spent on a child under the age of five gives a far greater financial return

on the investment than at any other time of a student's life. It is utterly short-sighted

to call this an intelligent move. The cost to our society otherwise will be very high.

This is not in the best interests of the children. It is only by valuing or teachers that

we can ensure our children have the best start. This is about short term finances and

once again allowing companies to make profit out of our youngest citizens.

Education is the most important job in the country. Our ECE workers deserve more

not less. How would these politicians be without their early nurturing from the ECE

teachers they had. Why do politicians get pay rises while people that really do good

for our society and work at the ground level keep getting less.

I think that is disgusting as we work hard supporting our children in there early years

to become respectable people in our community with a long life love of learning that

will contribute back into our communities. This is as important as a doctor. We work

very long hours which a majority are not paid for we deserve a decent wage/salary.

It's a high demanding job with a lot of children to take care of for just one teacher 1 -

10 is not a good ratio; also it's already hard enough to live in New Zealand with the

wage I'm making. Think about the quality of education in New Zealand, it will go

down when this happens and people will leave early childhood education. I will leave

this behind if this happens and I'm already having a hard time being a male in this

career and this will make me leave even though I don't want too which is quite sad.

We need accountability for the rates teachers are being paid - it’s not ok to hide this.

It's degrading. The value in what we do for children deserves more respect.

Equity or equality?

We are educated professional people providing education for children of mainly

working parents!!! We are not a babysitting service.




Someone with a degree in their field should be getting paid at an appropriate level.

No way should wages/salary drop...this is not an easy job, we are taking care of

precious lives for peanuts already.

It’s not an easy job I take my hat off to any teacher, they deserve more than they are

paid.

The government needs to get its priorities in order. Money to pay ex politicians a

salary for life, yet not enough to provide reasonable compensation to teaching

professionals who are charged with educating and caring for our youngest and most

vulnerable.

No, when is this government actually going to value us teachers. We are

professionals.

If you study and won't be guaranteed to get paid any better than if you had not, then

why study? Why even volunteer first, to study, to work as a teacher? The loser will

be the whole sector, who will not have enough teachers, only carers, the worst off

will be the children and the primary school teachers will be picking up the pieces.

Early childhood teachers have not / do not, do a 3-4 year degree to not get higher

pay. I think it's about time MOE spent some time in centres to see what teachers are

dealing with on a day to day basis because the job is definitely not an easy one.

Early childhood teaching is a profession. We are professionals at what we do and

this needs to be recognised on an ongoing basis.

Absolutely disgusting, ECE/Kindergarten teachers put in a lot of hours and hard work

planning, assessing, teaching etc just like primary school teachers; they should all be

under the same umbrella. For heaven's sake ECE/Kindergarten is where it all begins

for children/tamariki, they deserve qualified, quality teaching and I feel if you’re going

to under pay and discriminate teachers worth "you pay peanuts - you get monkeys"

the poor children of this generation.

I feel as if they are under valuing the important job that we do and it’s not right.

ECE is the foundation of children's growth and learning. It is valuable as much as uni

tuition is valuable. Why drop it and make it look like a baby sitting service?

I think it's a terrible idea. ECE is a critical sector in education, teachers work hard to

ensure children are getting the best start in education and life itself. It's not an easy

job however it rewarding and definitely not worth a paid cut. We work hard and this

should be reflected in pay

ECE will lose all their wonderful teachers to Kindergartens or other professions our

children will be dumbed down without the input of passionate and happy ECE

teachers - we will become a babysitting service again instead of the important




educational services we are - NZ will pay down the line when they are scratching

their heads wondering where NZs great education system went wrong.

As an already qualified and fully registered teacher I, as well as many others, worked

very hard to get to where we are. The sacrifices we made to study for 3, some 4

years and then 2 years of teacher’s registration were huge and had a huge impact

on my whanau.

We are professionals and what a child learns before five is so important.

Paying qualified experienced teachers less disregards and disrespects their degree

and the immense pressure and responsibility placed on them to care for and educate

our most precious and vulnerable.

Lowering the wage/salary will put pressure on ECE teachers and their families. It will

mean a loss of quality childcare in NZ.

We work long and hard we deserve our pay to represent that. People in office jobs

with no qualifications are paid almost triple what we are paid.

A teacher is a teacher is a teacher. No matter what age group they teach, they are

influencing lives, hopes, dreams, careers, wellbeing of each and every student.

I think it is a terrible thing. One for the highly skilled teachers who don't get paid

enough at their current rate - never mind dropping it but to the education of our

future- our children.

It is not okay as it will deter people from getting qualified thus resulting in centres

running with unqualified workers. This is truly a backward step for ECE and all the

hard work that has been put into place to improve this service and education for our

young children.

This will bring the standard of ECE down with less qualified teachers working in

centres because employers will say they cannot afford to pay qualified teachers.

We are not being paid our worth as it is so if anything we should be paid more.

There is more than enough research to show how important the first three years are

so it is time that was acknowledged and we are paid accordingly.

You will lose teachers and go back to having a low qualified amount of teachers.

This scheme would be degrading and unbelievable.

ECE teaching requires so much skill, commitment and knowledge that earning a

minimum wage would not make the workload worth it. Trained, skilled teachers will

leave and it is likely only untrained individuals will want to take on an ECE job

resulting in poor quality education for children.




Early childhood teachers are professionals we deserve to be treated as such. We go

through years of training to gain a degree then registration then keep up with

demands to keep registered - all the while advocating for our countries most

vulnerable citizens and trying to have families of our own. We deserved to be paid

fairly.

Money spent in education is already low enough. How much more do our children

need to have taken away from them?

I worked hard for my qualification. ECE is important for the future. Don't undervalue

ECE teachers!

Qualified staff increases quality of the service. Wages should reflect the

qualifications.

Quality of teaching will drop and the standard of learning reaching schools will drop.

Just plain and utter stupid!

The teachers are under paid now for the job they do.

So not fair for ECE workers and quality care for children!

If you understand the importance and value of having qualified early childhood

teachers working with children of this age group then you will know just how crucial

this part of a child's development is and how vital it is to get this right. This is not

something that should be underestimated as early childhood teachers do a

phenomenal job while maintaining very strict ratios. I would love to see some of the

ministers spend a month teaching in an early childhood centre as I am sure they will

really see the value and the importance of the role of and early childhood teacher.

Not only this but early childhood teachers have a Bachelor of Education degree

which should definitely be accounted for and make them higher paid than an

uneducated person entering the workplace.

ECE qualified teachers are already seen as 'the poor relations' in the education

sector. This is reflected greatly in pay and conditions. With the exception of

Kindergarten teachers, ECE qualified teachers are paid poorly, only have four weeks

annual leave, have limited non-contact time and are under a lot of pressure to take

the load of assessment and planning that untrained teachers are unequipped to do.

The workload is not easy and this level of education is very vital for our children to

become confident and competent in their lives.

We need a Minister of Education who values first class education for all New

Zealanders.

Appalling.......cannot believe this is even a consideration for these teachers who are

doing such a valuable job.




Would decrease the amount of quality ECE teachers as why would you study to work

for less wage.

This would be ridiculous. I spent a hell of a lot my time in studies, paid a heck of a

lot of money to gain the knowledge and skills, worked my butt out to gain

experiences and perform to the best of my ability to provide learning as required and

make a difference, maintain attending to professional development to ensure I am at

a level required to meet MOE requirements etc - Well I am strongly against this and

suggest to re-look at what your proposing as I am worth a lot more than this stupid

idea here.

Early education teachers are special people that choose this work because of their

love of children. Ministry of Education is taking advantage of this passion. So much

research has been done on the importance of the early years. By not paying teacher

what they are worth what is this saying about our children. To become a registered

teacher takes five years of work, and then it is an ongoing process to stay registered.

I also believe that there should be pay parity between kindergarten and early

childhood centres. Same qualification same pay!!

This would degrade the work that we do with the youngest and most vulnerable

children in the education sector. It makes us no more than babysitters. We have

degrees and diplomas of teaching; we are teachers, educators, caregivers.

Research shows that the first three years of life are the most crucial for children's

ability to become lifelong learners yet the government is possibly (if they cut funding)

eroding our ability to do that.

No. ECE teachers work very hard to provide a quality service to the child and

families, they will feel undervalued and will leave the profession leaving important

roles to unqualified teachers.

These teachers are professionals and they should be paid as professionals

otherwise why should they train?

No they have no right, however they have every right to drop funding and they have

in the past done just that. Soon centres won’t be able to pay qualified and registered

teachers so the sector will lose valuable teachers. Employment agreements cannot

be just changed without agreement but centres may be forced to close or lay off

staff.

If anything we need to increase it to make sure that all qualified teachers get paid the

same rates

Our youngest citizens need the best possible start in life with the most highly

qualified teachers. Quality is about having trained, registered teachers who know

how to support children to develop the social, emotional and intellectual skills

necessary for a successful life.




If you pay peanuts - I don't believe that is what New Zealand wants for its youngest

citizens.

Teachers need to feel valued as we do a very difficult job. Although it is all about the

children, it is a job that must provide enough income for us to live on. Some owners

of early childhood centres will take advantage of a change in the attestation if it

comes into effect.

Qualified teachers deserved to have their qualifications recognised by appropriate

pay levels.

Will we be back to the days of baby farming?

Early childhood is the crucial time to get things right for children's future learning.

Currently this keeps employers honest. If this was to go, it could become a very

dangerous grey area.

The brain is the only organ in the human body not fully formed at birth - it takes

another 3 years to reach full formation, and until 6 years until synapse growth is

more complete. Children birth - 6 MUST have positive experiences with quality

practitioners - teachers who have a good understanding of child development and

who work to a high standard with children - this has important long term outcomes

where children are more resilient adults who are able to contribute to their society to

a high level.

This would see a major shift of qualified teachers' moving to new professions,

decreasing the quality of care for children under five.

We need to encourage a) qualifications, b) motivate staff to do a good job teaching

our children, c) reward both d) pay a fair wage to already underpaid teachers.

This will greatly affect staffing in all ECE centres, quality will be compromised and

the consequences are horrifying!

WE have fought to raise those early childhood teaching to a professional level, part

of that is being paid a fair wage for the qualifications held, and it will be a very sad

day indeed that we lose this aspect. It will have serious consequences for the future

generations of children in childcare centres and will impact on teachers ability to live

and work in Auckland; a situation already dire.

Research backs trained staff deliver quality outcomes for children (mostly).

We work hard for what we have and children need quality teachers as they are the

future generation.




I would leave the profession if paying less than current attested wage was

implemented in my centre and became common place (am a teacher with 5 years’

experience).

People will stop training to become ECE educators - putting us back 30 years. What

will happen to quality care and education if this happens?

We have finally got qualified teachers. You would no longer be able to attract

qualified people into the profession. This is only the start next it will be primary and

secondary teachers.

ECE is a profession which people choose to teach and care for young vulnerable

children if we become paid less than we are worth we will open the doors to down

grading our status. ECE PROFESSIONALS NEED TO BE CHILD DEVELOPMENT

SPECIALISTS!

So we really want experienced qualified teachers to feel undervalued and

unappreciated - wake up NZ!! These teachers are raising our future and these

children need the very best!

Children deserve qualified teaching staff and teachers deserve to be rewarded for

their professionalism that they have studied hard to achieve in order for them to be

able to teach in ECE.

If teachers’ pay is affected, it can only affect the care they give to children, especially

if they are worrying about how they are going to pay their next bill. Plus it is not easy

to get an early childhood qualification, and this should be recognised financially -

perhaps the extra money could come from politicians having a pay cut...??? If not,

then perhaps they better find a way to make things work for everyone.

Time and time again the research indicates that investing in the early years helps

mitigate the costs to society later on. The majority of this workforce is women so this

is also equity. Many have loans to repay which will extend the life of the loan if

wages are eroded. Young children have a right to the best quality as so much

damage can be inflicted in the early years that are difficult to repair later in life. I have

already witnessed the negative impact non-qualified staff are having on the quality of

provision alongside higher adult/child ratios. This potential action devalues the work

that qualified teachers do and it devalues children and families.

This will potentially erode a long-held objective in ECE to have fully qualified

teachers on the floor.

I think it could lead to a shift in parents selecting centres based on the value they get

from qualified staff and they'd opt out of centres where there are less qualified staff.

One of our best teachers is passionate, an expert in the field but not qualified. We’re

penalised for this under the wage attestation system.




We are trained professionals, and we have to do a lot of work outside of working

hours to keep up to date on PD and teacher registration requirements, which also

cost. We are teaching and shaping the most valuable age of learning.

Qualified teachers must be paid at a level that reflects their qualification. This is

important in attracting teachers into the profession and in keeping them there.

Teacher qualifications are a key factor in ECE quality.

In fact it should be increased. This ECE sector provides the future generation where

there is lot of hard work required, in fact more than primary or secondary teachers.

Then why should the wages be decreased instead of increased?

ECE services are already struggling with the decisions MOE has made with regards

to funding; it just reflects that we are not prioritising our children; our future.

You get what you pay for! Highly skilled, quality teachers will change professions

because they will refuse to work for less than their worth.

Quality ECE is suffering as it is, this will destroy us who stand for the best interests

of the children.

What is the point of paying so much to he qualified if you may as well work at a

supermarket?

Drop that wage and goodbye early child hood. You can guarantee that no one will

want to become an early child hood teacher because we are not valued. This will

directly affect our children! We might as well tell them to change their own nappies

and make their own bottles.

So many people have worked tirelessly to have ECE teachers recognised for the

qualifications they hold and paid according to these AND this is how it should

continue to be.

Teachers should be getting the most over lawyers, bankers and politicians as they

shape and prepare our children for the world (nurturing).

Lower pay rates will lead to people leaving the sector and will stop people training to

be early childhood teachers as there will be no financial incentive to become

qualified.

The current attestation rates are already too low for experienced teachers, OK for a

teacher starting out.

If this happens we will have substandard teaching staff and so many more problems

will occur, just as in aged care.

Teachers need to be paid more.

A degree is a degree is a degree and should be recognised as such.




Third world slave labour and poor quality ECE, here we come!

This will not provide quality care and education to our youngest generation

This would be a travesty. All early childhood teachers deserve to have their

qualifications recognised through a salary which equals that of teachers in all

sectors. This move would definitely not be in the best interests of children who

themselves deserve to be taught and cared for by highly motivated and qualified

teachers who are paid in recognition of these qualification and skills.

I believe early childhood teachers work so hard to get qualified and gain full

registration with the teachers council. On top of that, the majority of early childhood

teachers go above and beyond for the children in their centres, there is a lot more to

teaching then what it looks! Early childhood teachers deserve to be rewarded for the

effort and hard work they put in to the children of New Zealand. Cutting their wages

will just make us feel underappreciated!

We are professionals with qualifications working with children during their most

formative years.

It's such a challenging job at times; I would like to see politicians do it. Beside the

fact we are the ones responsible for the next generations learning and development.

We will lose a lot of our teachers to overseas

Teachers deserve to be paid more, not less, for the important work they do. A decent

salary helps to attract the best, most suitable people.

Children will suffer.

I think it would be an astonishing admission that the Ministry of Education do not

value what training and costs that individual teachers undertake to work in the ECE

industry.

We are trained and qualified professionals with years of experience and our

remuneration needs to reflect this or there will be a sudden, and catastrophic,

shortage of teachers as we flee the "profession" to find work where we are valued.

While the govt actively encourages children to attend ECE services they must

support the quality provided.

You will lose good teachers who are qualified. They did not go to university and get

a diploma or Bachelor degree for nothing.

Children are our future the government needs to recognise the work done in ECE.

You start paying peanuts, you're going to end up with monkeys.

Teachers’ salaries are not that high and yet the Ministry would drop the current

salary attestation. We are professionals not kitchenhands or caregivers. Not only




would education in New Zealand become third world, more and more teachers would

either go overseas or change careers. Would there any teachers left? Smart move

by the National government who does not care about the education of the children

who are our future.

We are trained teachers that deserve every cent of what we currently earn!

This is so wrong as we do three years to become qualified then more for full

registration. There is so much more paper work to do, to make sure we are meeting

the child's needs and providing quality care.

Dropping the wage/salary attestation denies the value of the qualification and the

ECE profession. This does not happen for the other teaching professions. It could

discourage people from becoming ECE teachers.

With the current trend to move to documentation and working to MOE minimum

ratios if the wages were to drop on top of this good qualified teachers will leave the

profession and the standard of early childhood education will fall and therefore the

result will be an educating system that does not work.

Dropping the salary is unfair on teachers who are professionals. This would affect

the quality of education being provided. More and teachers would probably consider

moving overseas to teach or change careers.

No security for teachers who expect to get pay rises as they become more

experienced. How will we encourage men or women to manage a family on a

minimum wage?

Children are our biggest asset to the country and everything that happens to them in

their early years dictates what type of adult they will turn in to. If we have unqualified

or 'resentful' teachers (due to pay inequality) teaching our most precious assets - our

children - then the outcome will severely affect the goals of a positive upbringing

and therefore children will not reach their fullest potential. Teachers make the

biggest difference to children's future and it starts from the moment they are put into

our care. If you pay peanuts you will get monkeys - we don't want our future to be

one filled with resentful children who didn't receive the care, love, nurture and

education that they so desperately need in early childhood!

We work hard. Dropping the wage will put strain on the ECE section, we already get

paid poorly for the work we do. After hours planning and preparation - if wage is

dropped teachers won't put in any extra hours and you will see standards of teaching

slip.

Unscrupulous ECE providers could easily drop wages of qualified staff and /or

employ unqualified staff. This is a backward step for ECE in NZ.

52

Question 2. Is it okay for teachers counted within the minimum legal adult to

child ratios to not have to stay and work with the children and be able to leave

‘the floor’ to do other work?

This is unfair on the other staff. If you are part of the ratio you need to be with the

children. Centres should have more staff to do admin, cleaning etc. Teachers should

be paid for meetings outside of child time.

We are talking quality education for all our children/tamariki. The ratio is bad enough.

What is your concept on quality education for our children/tamariki? I would like to

know?

It is too easy for things to happen, when one teacher is put in charge of too many

children and this puts teachers in positions where they can be liable if anything

happens.

This opens up the opportunity for teachers to be left with a large number of children -

major health and safety issue and certainly not quality childcare. This is also another

avenue for profit makers to make more profit.

I am a parent. I trust these people with my child's life. Incidents can occur if our

children are not supervised by trained ECE Teachers.

I would happily continue to roster staff to maintain ratios of teachers working on the

floor to children, though the reality is our staff do assist with the laundry throughout

the day and fit in some basic admin if they can. We simply cannot afford to pay to

have someone else in at times to do this.

The ratio is very important to meet and I believe centres should already be trying to

meet higher ratios than just meeting the minimum required ratio. A ratio includes

teachers and children that are "on the floor" or this is not only causes poor

supervision and safety issues but this can also create low teacher-child interactions

and lack of scaffolding in children’s learning pathways.

This could end up getting very deceptive to parents. Centre ratios looking great on

paper and crap in practice. I have already heard of people in ECE that count

themselves towards the ratio but leave other teachers responsible for the children to

do admin.

As a centre manager answerable to a Trust Board I believe teachers are the ones

qualified to give children quality education and care, so they need to be with the

children. From an employer perspective it would be much easier to staff the Centre

if this requirement was not there, but that is not what it is about. We are there to

provide quality care and education to give good outcomes for children.

Question 2. Is it okay for teachers counted within the minimum legal adult to child ratios to not have

to stay and work with the children and be able to leave ‘the floor’ to do other work?


The whole reason for having a ratio is to ensure that children are adequately

supervised, supported in their learning and cared for. If a person is not fully available

to do this job then they clearly should not be counted as part of the ratio.

Centres need more closer auditing as most run illegally in my experience but cover it

up. This puts quality care in jeopardy. Minimum ratios are hard enough to work within

without them loosing another adult to admin.

This lowers the standard of care as suddenly, the teacher who is left on the floor may

be in charge of twenty as opposed to ten preschool children. I have concerns firstly

about the safety implications for the children and also possibly legal ramifications for

teachers in cases of serious injury suffered by children. Secondly, this does not allow

the teacher to spend quality one on one time with the children which is so important

to cognitive development. This also allows centres to hire fewer teachers to cut

costs.

The safety and supervision of children would be at risk and it would be hard for

teachers to be able to have responsive, reciprocal relationships with children

because of having to constantly scan the environment and tend to children who may

need guidance. It is extremely difficult for infants because of the care that they need

and the dependence on a teacher to tend to their needs.

This happens all the time in ECE, qualified teachers are represented on paper as

being in ratio as they are in site, but when they are not actually working with children

but are in an office, in a kitchen cooking this puts teachers in the floor at risk.

At times I think this should be allowed i.e. when a parent has a concern and to

resolve an issue as it arises (i.e. they are at the centre at the time where this could

be resolved-instead of a ""special meeting”). At times it would be helpful.

As a quality centre I employ 3 staff over the legal ratio to allow for meetings and non-

contact times. Staff in meetings cannot supervise or provide care for children.

Teacher: child ratios are already at a very challenging level without taking a teacher

out of contact with children and increasing the pressure on other teachers by trying

to cover more children than they should legally have to.

Some centres don't abide by this or use managers that are off the floor, not counted

as ratio, but use them towards the 80 percent funding. Not sure this should be

allowed either!

Why have ratios at all then?

Tamariki deserve attention in the important early years

This will affect quality of learning and put a lot of stress on the other educators.




I have worked for many services and management counting themselves on the floor

when they are in the office does not help the children or the stress out teachers.

The ratios are set to provide a minimum standard of teachers who teach, care and

communicate with families, on the floor

This is a common practice in ECE and it's disgusting and unfair on children, teachers

and to the team. If a teacher leaves the floor, there should always be someone to

replace the person going off the floor. This is for health and safety reasons for both

children and the adult. Personally I have witnessed adults going off floor and on

paper claims they are on the floor. This is fraud in my opinion and not a healthy

worth ethic.

Quality of care.

It is a safety issue for not only the tamariki, but also the kaiako. Perhaps if the

Ministry of Education Department members did our job each day for a month, they

would understand how challenging and draining, while also rewarding, ECE can be...

You need to be within ratios to be able to offer a safe and supervised environment.

There must be support to allow this to happen!

No, child ratio should mean adults actively engaged with those children.

The teachers to children ratios we have at the moment means that there are enough

teachers for supervision but one to one care and attention is still difficult to manage

as teachers will be multitasking there one to one engagement, as well as scanning

the area, and if something else requires their attention, then complex situations arise

quickly. In order to implement these principles and values of Te Whariki, ratios for

teachers need to be increased, and they also need to have 100 percent qualified

teachers, as currently qualified teachers time and attention is needed in order for

them to support the unqualified teachers to meet the needs of the children. Many,

many issues in ECE centres arise from not having educated teaching staff in ECE,

creating gaps in professional knowledge and effective teaching practices with the

children. However, primary teachers take home their work at the end of the day, I

feel ECE teachers should too. This is something ECE teachers sign up for when

aiming to be a better teacher.

Yes, but only if there is enough staff to look after children.

Again this begins to move into a very grey area. How can children be adequately

supervised if the minimum required teachers are all present but one is rostered for

kitchen, another 2 in the office and one on the floor with 40 children. Far too

dangerous!! (I’m employed by a large private organisation to manage an ECE

service)




Minimum staff-child ratio needs to be maintained.

There are other duties even as teachers.

Absolutely not! Ratios are there for a reason. They are there to keep children safe.

It is not ok that this are not adhered too.

Because it impacts on the quality of care. If non-contact time is rostered ratios still

need to be met

If you are in ratio you should be working with or alongside children.

Kids should be supervised with the right number of teachers at all times.

Teachers are there to teach. Employ others.

Admin should not be done instead of teaching children but by others or outside of

teaching hours.

Safety for the children and the staff left on the floor.

The minimum legal limit is already stretched as it is and children will not properly be

observed and cared for when a teacher step off the floor.

Initially this is about safety, which underpins all interactions in ECE. And ideally it is

about 100% quality educational learning experiences for all children.

It defeats the purpose if the teacher is counted in the numbers then they need to be

actually teaching.

The teacher child ratio keep to a minimum is better for quality educational outcomes.

Teachers are funded to work with the children, not to leave children to be babysat by

unqualified staff.

Should be on the floor with the children if they are counted as part of the ratio.

I think there needs to be flexibility here to operate an ECE centre within ratios at all

times, children's safety is the most important aspect. Having a relief teacher to cover

while teachers have non-contact works well. I question though why there is a need to

provide evidence for just about everything teachers do? Surely this can be minimised

to provide a higher quality of care. Every time a teacher is off the floor it can have an

effect on the children. Continuity is the key for quality relationships.

There is a huge misconception that early childhood teachers only "play" with

children. Just like primary teachers we have a high amount of programming planning

and documentation to be written up and done as a Ministry of Education

Requirement.




The current ratios are hard enough to work within even in supportive environments.

Quality care cannot be provided in these ratios 1:5 and 1:10 let alone when teachers

are counted off the floor.

Teachers should be counted on the floor. That’s how accidents happen and they

will.

Again it is a quality issue. Good child to adult ratios (adults being qualified teachers)

contributes to high quality care and education.

It makes it harder for the teaching team to effectively teach the children and thus

becomes more a supervisory role when the chances of negative incidents occur.

Because the funding received for qualified is to be with the children.

Our children must come first, their safety and development is paramount.

They are in the ratio for care and education of children. This is where they should be.

Not doing other roles.

If you have minimum ratios you need all hands on deck to deliver quality. It's about

the children.

The current minimum standard is not enough and such a move would make it unsafe

for children and teachers

Teachers are there to educate and care for the children, therefore to do their job the

teachers need to be present with the children and interacting with them at all times.

Ratios should only include those who are actually on the floor with the children.

Leaving for short periods are ok but not for extended times.

Someone needs to know what to do, this is not a baby sitting job, and Christchurch

earthquakes prove the need for experienced qualified staff present at all times.

Safety.

Teachers need to be available to teach children, help them problem solve, make

decisions, stay safe. Teachers should have paid time to attend meetings and work in

the office but this should NOT affect the child ratios other members of staff should

cover these teachers to ENSURE the ratios are kept to 1-10 or 1-5.

The minimum legal ratios should be present to watch the children at all times. If they

have more than the minimum then they can leave the floor to do other duties.

Education comes first

If they aren't with children directly what is the point of having ratios? Defeats the

purpose totally.




Work in an early childhood centre and then you will see. The ratios are ridiculous

now as they are. 1-5 in under 2's.....

Ratios should be upheld all the time and teachers should be covered to leave the

floor.

All teachers counted in minimum ratio need to be present and teaching at all times.

Child safety and learning is top priority.

For small periods of time so as not to put stress on the other teachers or the kids.

Things come up ... So there does need to be flexibility as long as it's still safe for the

children in care!

If they are counted in the ratio then no they shouldn’t leave the floor, but if there is a

reliever to replace them than yes of course.

Student and other staff will have stressful time with not enough adults to ratio.

This would be unacceptable because the possible consequences of a drop in

supervision quality or adult to child ratios on the floor would be child neglect.

Children could get themselves into dangerous situations with no adult supervision

and hurt themselves. Some children may not receive adult attention as they play for

much of the day due to the overwhelming amount of children and other

responsibilities that a small number of staff have to attend to. Children may have to

wait long periods of time to have nappies changed if there are not enough teachers

on the floor.

Relationships with children are extremely important. You can't build trusting

relationships with children if you are in the office or laundry.

Because off the floor activities help keep centres running efficiently.

I think there still needs to be a minimum amount of qualified staff on the teaching

floor at any given time. Cover should be arranged for staff to leave the teaching floor.

This ensures these times are productive. However nipping out to put a load of

washing on should be okay.

Children are first priority. They should not be left under staffing at any time. Their

health and safety is not covered when staff are not there.

We need them on floor to ensure quality education for the children and to ensure we

can provide them with safe care.

Children deserve the highest form of respect and teaching. With optimal time for

teaching moments.

They are minimum requirements!




Most services would staff to the minimum now so there is no wiggle room to allow

other activities than working with children. If this occurs frequently, the government

may lower the teacher child ratio further.

This creates a toxic stress environment for both children and teachers. One of the

cornerstone quality indicators is low ratios and teachers who are able to sensitively

attune and respond to children. This cannot happen if teachers are doing jobs other

than being fully present with the children.

Tamariki will suffer as teachers on the floor will be so stretched quality education for

individual children will go out of the window. To manage increased child:adult ratios,

either teacher-led group activities will prevail or teachers will simply become care

providers and behaviour managers because of a lack of time and ability to teach

individuals or spend quality time with tamariki. If children are left to their own

devices, what society will we experience in the future? Nurturing, scaffolding,

inspiring, role-modelling, encouraging, guiding, redirecting etc etc will potentially be

lost if teachers have more tamariki to oversee.

If the ratios are not kept to a good level, it makes it hard for quality interactions.

Children need to be provided with a safe environment and that requires teachers on

the floor.

I feel as though it is important for children to get the best learning opportunities with

their time within a centre and need appropriate teacher ratio to do so. Also the

environment needs to be a safe and secure place for them to feel comfortable to

play/explore in.

Yes at times. There are many things to get done throughout the day.

Comes down to children's safety - ratios are there to protect the children and the

teachers. If a teacher who is a part of that ratio leaves the colleague with more

children than she can handle it becomes a safety issue. If your popping out to do

washing, take some children with you, make it a learning experience.

Children’s safety must come first!

These people are highly trained and we trust them to make good judgements as to

where the need is and meet it.

We have never practised this. If you are in the ratio then you work with the children.

Child and other teachers’ safety! Added stress and work load to other staff members

and again the wellbeing of the children.

Ratios must be maintained to offer quality service and also to look after our own

individual well being.




It makes everything so much more difficult for those left to handle the children on the

floor.

Safety aspects.

If you are not on the floor looking after the children then you should not be counted!!

How can you be counted in the ratio if you are not there!

Tamariki are important.

How can quality interactions between teachers and children occur if teachers are put

into positions where they are managing supervision of large quantities of children,

current ratio of 1-4 for under 2s and 1-10 for over 2s already stretch teachers ability

to work effectively with children.

If they are off the floor then the children are not being supervised!

Working with the children is the most important job. Other time or staff should be

rostered for this.

A quality childcare centre will not do that - they will always make sure that child-

teacher ratio is met at all times.

For optimal care and education we need our children to have qualified, skilled staff

alongside them as they learn. We already know that the minimum requirements are

not optimal when looking at child development and brain development. If anything

we need more qualified and skilled staff with our children - Not less!

The jobs need to be done around the centre in order for it to run however these

could be done when the ratio is less, i.e. the children are sleeping.

If teachers are counted in the minimum ratio of teachers to children then they need

to be actively engaging with children

Not everyone can be a teacher to teach, there are much more behind it.

Leaving the floor undermines the child:teacher ratio. The ratio is set in place to offer

quality of care for children.

We are not providing quality care and education for children if there are not enough

teachers to meet their needs.

Ratios are ratios....common sense is all that is required to cover basic jobs. Admin is

admin and should be covered in non-contact times, which in turn should be covered.

A professional teacher needs time to plan assess evaluate and provide top quality

care and education. This does not happen by osmosis while continuously being in

ratio




Well-being of children.

When you take one teacher away from an already low standard, you are leaving the

other teachers and children vulnerable to accidents, bad behaviour from the children

and teacher burn-outs. Respect your workers and give them the tools and resources

that they need- our jobs are hard enough without the standards dropping even more!

Safety and professional learning time.

Teachers should be given release time and have someone to relieve them so that

this is to happen.

Working with the children should be the first priority. We are teachers first.

Leadership meetings, team meeting, ongoing PD and development.

There needs to be a safe level of staffing on the floor at all times, children are full on

most of the time. As the ministry like most government departments requires

copious paperwork done there should be allowance made for staff to complete this.

Children are messy so washing does come into the job.

If you are not with the children you are not able to teach.

There should be more staff so the children are always the first priority, but without

jeopardising things that need to be done, like meetings and admin work.

There should be another teacher paid to take our role on the floor while we are in the

office writing learning stories, etc.

The ratio is set for on the floor so it is on the floor.

This puts pressure on the other teachers and children this does not provide quality.

There should always be the required teacher child ratios plus so that teachers can

do their paper work etc in work time and not their own time. Kindergarten teachers

and school teachers have non-contact times that do not have to be in their own time.

Why should private centres be different?

I think teachers do need to be on the floor to cover ratios and children's temperament

can change at any time. In most cases, when a teacher is missing from the ratio,

stress is put on the teachers who are on the floor who have to make up for the other

teacher being away. Eventually this will have detrimental effects on the centre and

children.

Ratios are set for a reason they are already only minimally adequate. To allow staff

to come and go could lead the way to reduced quality

They are not 'in contact' with the children so can't help with supervision etc.




Especially if you are a beginning teacher or you need to leave the floor for legitimate

and urgent paperwork. However, someone should always be there to replace the

teacher leaving.

No of course not, the minimum required ratios are ridiculously tight, especially in

under twos. This change is risking the health and well-being of our children, surely

we have bigger aspirations for our ECE services than just offering crowd control.

Because the ratios are minimum adult:child ratios, and if the adults aren't present for

whatever reason, then they should not be counted in the ratio. It doesn't make any

sense to differentiate - absence is absence, regardless of whether the adult is at a

meeting or at home.

Having ratios is what minimises accidents and always making sure children are

provided with the best quality care. All that admin, washing and other stuff can be

done later on in the afternoon when a number of children begin heading home.

Doing small tasks like washing is fine but longer periods off the floor mean lower

actual ratios. These ratios are needed to ensure children's safety and a high

standard of care and education.

We are there to educate these children - time off the floor can be covered by extra

staff at an appropriate time.

Effects the quality of care and education provided.

If you are counted in ratio you need to be with the children and available to them at

all times, not cleaning, doing programming etc

As long as there is another teacher caring for the set group of children while this is

happening. Washing still needs to be done and as for admin time, which we use to

assess the children on their current goals and add to our planning accordingly by

writing learning stories, this is also an important part of our practice, which benefits

each child too! However, there may be job opportunities that the government could

look into in terms of a kitchen hand in each centre who could be responsible for

washing, food, dishes and some cleaning - this will allow teachers to become free to

actually have much more time to teach!

How is that teaching?? Teachers are orders signals and need professional non-

contact time to perform other duties, otherwise teaching & learning suffer.

Children's care comes first these other duties take away 1-1 interactions and

learning opportunities.

It's a minimum ratio for a reason! The safety of my child is at stake, I don't want less

interaction and care because the teacher had to plan or clean!

Because the ratios will not be correct and health and safety will be minimised.




This is a normal part of the day - school teachers do this too - it's about common

sense.

If I enrol my child somewhere I want to know for sure the adults included in the ratio

count are actually on the floor!

Health and Safety risk will need to be assessed if this should occur.

Children don't need you to be right there in their face. I don't believe you should

attend meetings but being in the office or washing you are still very present. I'm a

manager and I'm like a yoyo on and off the floor.

Govt ratios are very high so that should be a minimum standard. Continue to reduce

these and you will just have crowd control and no learning.

Should be with the kids.

Accidents happen when people are expected to look after more children than they

can actually keep their eye on! It will also cause burnout.

Children deserve quality interactions with adults who have the time to invest in them

when needed not when it just suits the centre

The ratios are there for a reason. To protect the children, this is so especially

important with under-twos. Admin work should be lessened in the first place so

teachers do not feel pressured to spend their lunch breaks, floor time, and home

time always documenting. If there are meetings to be had then relievers should be

bought in.

We are there for the children; they are our 'clients' and our no.1 priority. Changing

this requirement would put more pressure than there already is on teachers already

on the floor. Its simple maths - less teachers equals poorer quality of education!

Early childhood is a very important time for children's learning.

Ratio's need to be adhered to in order to maintain service standards.

It is unprofessional and not child centred.

Children’s safety will be put at risk.

Children safety is first and what's best for the children.

They are not with the children hence should not be in ratio. If something happened

they wouldn't be just there - its health and safety.

Child protection.




I want as many eyes on my child as possible. If staff are feeling stretched because

one is off the floor, there is more chance for accidents with children to happen and

this is not okay.

Otherwise teachers will take advantage of that.....and escape the work on the floor

leaving the child teacher ratio at risk and children’s safety as well.

If the teacher is counted on the floor then that is where they should be. This is where

the industry tries to squeeze more and more out of teachers and put children at risk

because you are trying to do too many things. If you said to a parent we have 3

teachers on the floor, that is where they (the parents) would expect the teachers to

be, not off doing admin, washing, getting afternoon teas etc. employ unqualified staff

for these duties

Quality comes from the highest level of teachers available for quality interactions.

Legal ratios are bad enough and don't allow for all children to be watched properly at

all times. Removing an adult from the room when they are meant to make up that

ratio is ridiculous and completely irresponsible.

No teachers should not be able to leave the floor and not be rostered on non-contact

etc as children need quality staff to ensure education and care is happening as well

as good scanning for health and safety reasons.

Again, as fabulous as unqualified staff can be, the level of training and knowledge is

unaccountable. Where one may have capabilities and skills sometimes better than

some qualified staff, others do not. There is no way to monitor the level of

competencies when untrained staff are left unsupported by trained staff. Further

increasing the risks and development for our children and whanau

If it's meeting the minimal required limit they should stay on the floor to ensure the

children's safety.

It puts pressure on the other staff and decreases quality interactions for the children,

The teachers are NOT in ratio if they are not teaching.

The ratios are there to give children the safest and best level of care.

There is no point having a ratio if it isn't required to be maintained at all times. This

would lower the importance of the ratio and lead to a reduction in the quality of care

provided and an increase in health and safety issues.

Only in the case of things like doing the washing, but be in the vicinity of children and

have another teacher with the children.




There are ratios set in place for a reason - to maintain quality care and education.

Let teachers off the floor willy nilly and loose the quality that families expect for their

children.

I think that if this is going to happen, there should be someone covering that off the

floor person. I don't believe they should be considered in the ratio if they are not with

the children, as that is what the ratio is for.

Quality teaching will be compromised.

The ratios are already tough, especially with under 2's

Teachers counted within the ratio are there to provide quality, reciprocal

relationships and interactions, and a safe environment for tamariki.

Because as someone who has worked in early childhood I know that this just doesn't

work - it's hard enough when you DO have the legal ratios! Especially when parents

expectations are so high.

A ratio is about ensuring quality not just a number - although there is a difference in

answering a phone call and writing a learning story. Some grey is ok.

The safety and quality of care and education for children is ALREADY compromised

when a centre runs on the minimum ratio requirement for early childhood services.

Anything over and above that is absolutely unfathomable and unacceptable.

Minimum adult to child ratios should be those that are on the floor!

There should be a certain number of adults in attendance with the children at all

times. The ratio shouldn't count if the teacher is in the office having non-contact time.

Because then it puts adult to child ratio out as they are not with the children.

Minimum ratios are not the greatest now and more pressure is put on others that are

on the floor. Stress in this field of work is already high; this adds more to the rest of

the workers.

Staff should only leave the floor if they are able to do so legally (within ratio)

They are there for the children.

Ratios are set to protect both the teachers and the children.

The minimum ratio is bad enough; it would be unacceptable to have it worsened by

someone leaving the floor.

If you’re in ratio you are necessary for the education and wellbeing of the children.

We have children with many differing needs. One situation had me dealing with

blocked toilets, poo pants, children biting and punching each other and my colleague




dealing with a seizure and another one cleaning the poo spill outside - all that and

only 19 children (that's well above ratio). You tell me how I can deal with this or even

have the time to call someone back on the floor when she's allowed to leave the floor

because she's counted in ratio?

It's the children that are missing out if teachers are not on the floor.

Because if it's to do with work then it should be done in work time e.g. non-contact

time or we should at least be paid to do it in our own time.

Teachers counted within the minimum legal adult to child ratios should be on the

floor with children; that's what children deserve. Quality teacher-child ratios are

fundamental for children's wellbeing and thus their ability to learn. It is also

fundamental for oral language development as more conversations are able to

happen. Oral language underpins later literacy at school.

It is ridiculous to count people who aren't caring for children in ratio, they aren't, and

it is dangerous.

Child’s safety!

It happens anyhow.

Admin is all part of the job. Learning Stories - documenting children's learning

journeys is essential. As is review, policy writing, adhering to professional standards

and ALL associated legal requirements. There is not adequate time allocated as it is

now! How else is the sector able to continue to provide quality early childhood

education if our working conditions and environments are continually undermined?

The minimum ratios are already so high and working in those conditions is so hard

and creates a stressful environment for the children

It puts the health and safety of the children and fellow colleagues at risk if the ratios

are not adhered to.

Seriously? Adult to child means adult to child, not adult to office or any other

necessary task.

Child need adequate supervision.

Because the quality of teaching diminishes and the true ratio is not being adhered to.

If you are working on minimum ratio and a child was in need of support for any

reason you put the ratio of child to teacher much higher and when you stretch your

team and something bad happens all children are at risk.

This is what 'non-contact' time is for!




What is the point in having minimum required teachers to child ratios if they won’t be

included on the floor with the children? Already I feel as though the ratios are tough

and we could certainly do with more teachers!

If you’re counted in the ratios then you need to be with the children! When meetings,

planning need to be done, you should be covered by another staff member!

Safety and quality. I have worked in a centre at minimum ratio it was babysitting.

Just imagine the safety and quality issues with off the floor. Are you serious and

how lacking in respect of the children is that?

All counted as ratio should be on the floor at all times, not doing paperwork.

If they are part of the minimum ratio then they should stay with the children. Quality

teaching works best with lower ratios. Removing an adult increases the ratio for the

other staff. The only people losing are the children.

If they are counted in the teaching numbers per child ratio they should be working an

involved with the children.

To give quality teaching, high adult to child ratios needs to be maintained in order to

provide the best interactions possible.

Quality adult-child ratios. Health and safety.

The ratios are the minimum requirement for maintaining a safe environment for

children, it is absolutely unacceptable for adults in ratio to be 'off the floor' while

children are present.

As long as the minimum ratios are still being meet.

Teachers within the ratio should be with the children.

For non-contact time to work on learning get stories and planning is fine, but general

admin stuff etc.., should be paid by other staff.

Ratio is ratio with teachers in a full supervisory capacity.

If teachers are part of the ratio they need to be with the children.

The government ratios at the present are bad enough without more teachers being

off the floor.

Ratios should be maintained for the benefit of the children and the teachers. Cover

should be provided if off the floor for longer periods (can go from and do washing but

back again).

Safety of the children for one, secondly I would think that it will be unfair to the staff

on the floor as they will clearly be struggling with the basic care of the children.




Ratio need to be counted as working with children.

Does not meet ministry requirements if they are counted as part of the ratio, leaves

other staff under stress as ratios rise, creates disharmony amongst other teachers if

this rule applies to only a "select few".

If not, burnout is inevitable!

If you're counted in ratio, you should be with the children.

It’s all part of our job these tasks have to be done. A lot of the time we are

documenting learning in between necessary cleaning duties.

If they are with the children they should be part of all parts of teaching.

There is so much more to a teachers job that being on the floor - provided that the

minimum ratio is covered teachers have many other professional obligations.

Safety.

Thing with children change very quickly -there must be adequate people on hand to

help immediately.

If they are counted in ratio they should be on the floor, there should be allowances

for extra help to cover other of the floor duties.

What about the wellbeing and safety of the children when supervision is

compromised when teachers do not 'have' to be on the floor. Absolute madness!

It puts the children at risk and more pressure for those on the floor having to pick up

the pieces.

There are set ratios for a reason and that is so all children are being cared for and

their needs are being meet, take out a teacher and you take learning and care away

from the children.

Putting children at risk as teacher ratio goes down. They deserve the best quality

care and that won't be given if this is to happen (it will be farming children).

They aren't on the floor and if something happened and they were needed another

teacher would have to go off the floor to get them. It doesn't make sense.

No, because you can't give quality education if 1 teacher is stretched and under

pressure with too many children. It just becomes about fighting fires and not giving

time to the children.

Really!!! The ratios are bad now, imagine the lack of quality if that happened!

Minimum ratios need to be maintained for safety at all times.




This is not quality care. When there are fewer teachers in the classroom children are

missing out and stress levels increase

Children will not get the quality interactions with an adult if they are busy doing

something else!

Children need well-resourced centres where teachers can do a great job and not be

stretched to cover other responsibilities for teachers who are off the floor.

Terrible!! Childs safety is highly at risk if this occurs

If a teacher is included in ratio they should be on the floor with the children.

The ratios are made for quality interactions - if you take teachers away then it

lessens the opportunity for intentional teaching.

Why then have teacher child ratio's?

It is hard enough with minimum ratios being met; counting teachers who are not

actually there will make our jobs ridiculously difficult.

Children deserve qualified teachers working with them. 100% qualified teachers.

Ratios are important for the children's learning but also for safety.

It would be detrimental to the children's learning and care.

Because they are not accessible to the children! They are not playing a part in the

children’s education or keeping them safe!

It must be the case that at times teaching staff need to meet and do admin. If this is

a part of work that is paid outside of the hours of child contact then it’s not okay. If

this needs to happen inside the hours of child contact then it should be ok simply to

ensure the spread of good practice.

Educators need to be counted in ratio to ensure safety for all children and be actively

on the floor teaching.

It affects the quality teaching and care for the children, further putting stress on the

other teachers left in the class. I believe quickly popping out of the room to do

washing is not too bad as you are only out for a few minutes.

The adult to child ratios should remain the same - I believe they were instated for the

safety and attention of the child. For teachers to then have to deal with other areas

"off the floor" negates the original standard and puts the children at risk in terms of

safety or neglects them in terms of attention.

Doing this will create unsafe situations for children and ako alike.




Teachers should have enough hours to work on the floor and be covered to go and

do off the floor work without affecting the ratio.

Adults on the floor as part of legal child :adult ratio should stay on floor with kids.

Reliever teachers needs to be employed so permanent teachers can attend

meetings. If those permanent teachers are required to do cooking or washing or non-

contact then they need to be replaced by another teacher

The minimum ratio is just that, "minimum". Children deserve adults focussing on

their learning to be 'present'. Admin work can be done by unqualified early childhood

professionals and meetings can be undertaken after hours as part of a professional

expectation. Washing etc should not be done by teachers during child hours.

Educators should be given extra paid time to complete admin, meetings, house

cleaning. Being in ratio is on the floor with the tamariki.

If you’re not on the floor you’re not with the children!

Teacher to child ratios are carefully worked out on a daily basis for good reasons

and must be adhered to.

If the teachers are not on the floor they cannot be counted towards the ratio's. The

ratios are there to protect our children's welfare and any less would be a dog race to

our children

Children need good ratios at all times. At least for safety and supervision!

For safety reasons if no other reason all teachers that are in adult/child ratio should

always remain on the floor.

Their qualifications should be used for teaching. They schedule non-contact time for

the other important things like learning stories.

Teachers counted need to be teaching otherwise the ratios are meaningless.

If they are not on the floor with the children then I believe they are not counted in

ratio!

All counted adult to child ratio should be on the floor engaging in meaningful

interactions with children. There should be allocated non-contact time for teachers

to attend to tasks off the floor, and more than two hours a week!

Quality over quantity.

Who would do them if the teachers didn't? You would have to hire auxiliary staff.

To be in ratio you need to caring and supervising the children.




That ratio isn't safe with the teachers off the floor. It needs to be lower to ensure

interaction and engagement with the children.

If you are counted in ratio you should be on the floor. Meeting etc you are not

working with children therefore you are out of ratio and someone else is employed to

work on the floor.

Good ratios on the floor with low child numbers help to provide quality education.

Otherwise we are just crowd control.

Safety for the children and the staff - honouring the commitment to provide the best

care possible for our future generations.

It depends on for what length of time they are absent from the floor. If you're in the

office all day, then no - but if it's for a few minutes only then it's ok.

I'm a primary school teacher and I cannot understand how this is acceptable. If an

adult is not working with children, then they are unsupervised.

They are trained and qualified so why do cleaners job or leave the floor?

It is endangering the children's safety and that of the other staff.

You can't supervise children without seeing them and being present - purely for

health and safety reasons.

Teacher should be always be with the children supporting and encouraging

children's interest and learning.

The ratios are put in place for safety reasons and to ensure children are receiving

quality education and not just supervision.

The current ratios are difficult to work within a lot of the time for example when there

are children with challenging behaviour, toileting to support, injuries to aid etc.

Having less teachers on the floor will further compromise quality and safety if this

becomes common practice.

Ratios need to be adhered to at all times. Quality cannot be maintained if ratios are

kept to. Services who maintain the minimum number of teachers required already

struggle to provide a quality service. If teachers need to leave the floor for

administrative duties, cover needs to be provided.

No the ratios should apply to teachers on the floor, as young children have high

needs. There is a direct connection between teacher/child ratios and quality

education.

Qualified registered teachers on floor at all time. 100% qualified.




Minimum ratios should be met at all times. Admin and non-contact work should be

covered by the minimum ratios.

It drops the quality and safety to our children.

We need better ratios so teachers can do admin/non-contact time without being

called back on the floor if numbers are too high etc.

We need to ensure teachers are teaching.

Ratio means with children!

When you are off the floor the teacher/child ratio changes....is that

mathematics??????

Because the ratio increases for the period of time you are absent this causes

pressure on other staff, compromising the duty of care.

Unless there is someone specifically employed for cleaning and management tasks,

this is a big workload and cannot be managed with full time on the floor work.

Because essentially the ratios are put out once a teacher is off the floor.

As a current teacher this is what I am used to, I would find that if the % still count

even when the teachers aren't on the floor some teachers could use this to their

advantage to not be on the floor. If you are not teaching then you shouldn't really be

counted as working as a "qualified teacher" with children at that particular time,

although I do the importance of being able to do other things and never get the

opportunity to do so as you need to be on the floor!! This can also be to do with

ratios however. I think I am in two minds about this!

Ratios are there to keep everyone safe!

Ratios should be lower and staff being counted in the ratios when they are off the

floor is not ok because it not quality provision of ECE

Why should they? There needs to be consistent substantial release time for teachers

and this should not always (exceptions and flexibility are also needed) be at times

when ratios are down, this only means the children are missing out on other

experiences and learning.

The safety of children is at our utmost importance!

It would depend, on what the other work was.

It's dangerous to count a teacher in if they are off the floor.

It is dangerous for both the teachers and children to be out of ratio, and quality of

care would suffer.




Those working with children work with the children and the others shouldn’t count. It

is after all about our children getting the best!

Teachers are teachers let our children be taught.

Surely the ratio applies to teachers as educators - you can't do this if you are off the

floor!

At times it is only barely possible to provide a safe and nurturing environment with

the minimum number of staff on the floor and fully engaged. Any less on the floor

would be unsafe and totally unacceptable.

This is crazy. The quality of teaching will be affected and children will suffer. Job

descriptions are an important part of teaching.

The ratio is set to ensure children are supervised and are engaged in learning.

There are several jobs that need doing within a centre that contribute to children's

learning, development and wellbeing. Otherwise we need paid time to do this outside

of centre hours or hours/time on the floor! Paid!! It is still a part of the job!

Ratios should be maintained at all times so if a teacher needs to leave the floor then

there should be enough staff to cover this.

If they're required for the ratios to be adhered to, then they should be with those

children that they are technically supervising, not directed to other tasks that take

them away from optimal learning interactions with children.

Need to be within ratios; therefore they need to be on the floor with the children.

Can only count the teachers actively supervising.

Many reasons - health and safety, regulations ......

It is important for teachers to have the time to do planning and assessment

documentation, have meetings with teachers or whanau and admin. However, this

should not change, or take away, from the minimum amount of teachers who are

with the children.

Teachers should be working within ratio and therefore when at meetings, working in

the office another teacher should take this place to ensure children receive quality,

safety and consistency. Teachers in ratio are teachers not kitchen staff or admin

personal, or teacher aide.

Ratios are there for a reason. If you leave the floor then ratios are not meet. This is

the time where children do not always get quality care and education as there is not

enough staff to be able to provide children with the care they need and deserve




Teachers who are doing admin are not counted. We should still be funded for these

teachers when they are off the floor as that is teaching work required by MOE.

Cutting ratios further is not the answer.

If they are counted in ratios then they need to be working on the floor with the

children.

Such a dilemma because if it affects ratios most teachers would feel the pressure

and obligation to stay on the floor. Yet there is the ever increasing demand from the

government for more in depth, and time consuming paperwork (learning stories, self-

review processes etc) which is obviously a requirement to make us accountable on

so many levels. An ethical dilemma which hasn't been given enough thought to by

government services.

Quality teaching and safety!

The reason for the adult/child ratios is to ensure there is adequate supervision. If

teachers are allowed to be elsewhere that could lead to some dangerous situations

with too many children and not enough teachers.

We want quality interactions for our tamariki, focused kaiako can do this.

It'll depend on the set up, mainly no, as they're accounted for to educate.

Yes it is ok. Who else is going to do these tasks for us? Obviously as a responsible

staff member you would check that there are enough staff:children before leaving the

floor.

The ratios are restrictive and does not allow centres any flexibility to meet actual

needs.

Staff need time away from the floor for their own development. This keeps ideas

fresh and ensures that they are valued. But time away from the floor should not be

counted in ratios as children still need adequate supervision. Staff left on the floor

should not be punished by having to supervise more children in order to let their

colleagues off the floor.

There is a reason that these ratios are put in place! Any parent knows that anything

can happen in a split second and teachers more so are vigilant of this. Teachers

work hard to have meetings and admin in non-contact hours and doing domestic

duties if it can't include children is done outside of contact hours! This would

contradict the Health and Safety Act but most importantly the Vulnerable Children's

Act the repercussions of an unsupervised child would be irreparable!!

There needs to be a component built in that is above the minimum requirement so

the admin and other tasks don't compromise the teaching.




If they're not supervising the children then they should not be counted as part of the

adult-child ratio. There should be adequate numbers of staff to not only supervise the

children but to support the other teachers to reduce stress. Looking after vast

quantities of children is not an easy job, not to mention dealing with parents when

their little one has suffered a mishap due to inadequate staffing levels.

Far too many accidents will take place; children and adults will be at risk.

Safety and harmony are essential parts of quality learning. The ratios are there to

ensure this and if the teacher is 'not there' it contradicts this ratio.

Minimum supervision is a safety issue so numbers should be maintained and

appropriate cover for admin/lunch breaks legally required.

Because its practical and they cannot afford to pay someone else when they are

perfectly capable of sharing roles.

Safety of the children.

The safety of children becomes at risk and there are no quality interactions with

children therefore no quality education.

No, teacher time allocation is for working with children. If they need to be released

to do other work in the centre/kindergarten then they need to have funding to pay for

another teacher to take their place with the children.

How can they be counted when not on the floor - that is one set of eyes less on the

children? I can see any quality interactions that we have going out the door - we will

only be management control.

No, unless there is ample cover on the floor (the centre always has one additional

teacher) and someone is still watching the children at all times, then this is not

acceptable.

Safety of children and quality for children that the teachers are present and engaged

working with children not just babysitting. This will lower the hard fought for

recognition of teachers.

Staff having non-contact time should not be counted in the staff-child ratios for safety

and learning reasons.

I expect my children to be adequately supervised at all times. The adult to child ratio

should only count towards staff actively involved with the children's care and

education.

To be counted in ratio you should be on the floor with the children.




There are lots of jobs that need attending to in order to make an ECE run efficiently

and these do not always involve being with the children - attending a meeting to plan

the week ahead etc should be a normal part of the working day.

It's dangerous.

Because the children are not receiving the care or supervision of the ratio if the staff

are not on the floor. We have ratios for a reason - QUALITY.

A highly regulated industry and yet you want to put unqualified staff on the floor?

Kindergartens are centres that have 8 minutes of quality time one to one with a child

per week.... and that is with qualified staff, try putting someone on the floor who has

no knowledge of developmental needs and see how that looks for 'quality

interaction'.

Who else is supposed to do all of these things, do you as a minister in cabinet look

after children while you are doing paper work?

This totally removes safety for children.

Children doing 25 to 50 hours a week in daycares interact with an adult maybe

10mins in a day? They see a parent maybe for an hour or two a day? Who are their

role models? Do they feel cared for? A future mental health time bomb waiting to

happen. Get ECE right then society will reap the benefits, get ECE wrong and

society will suffer the consequences... we all know this... so what space is the

Ministry of Education thinking in?

We need acceptable staff to child ratios.

No way, when the ECE centre has a full house all teachers must be on deck for

routines to flow, give children time and respect and have their needs met, when a

teacher is off the floor it can become difficult and things may go wrong, accidents

etc! If it's quiet and not as many children then surely yes get a teacher of the floor to

do some paper work other than that No as those reasons I've expressed.

This lowers the quality of service and puts children at risk. An unhealthy practice and

mind set.

Teachers need to be working with the children to be counted in ratio for safety

reasons and also to provide a quality programme, develop relationships with the

children and families.

I do not condone this at all, if you need to be off the floor. You need someone to

cover. 1:10 is high enough as it is, so it's pretty much saying it's ok to have a ratio of

1:20.

Children's safety.




This compromises safety for children.

This is not quality care!

We do laundry now leaving the floor to wash towels, sheets, facecloths. It is part of

our role. We are paid to attend a one hour meeting once a month with all centre

staff. We do admin work in our non-contact time if you consider admin organising

visits outside the centre, learning story writing etc...

There needs to be a minimum set of hands or eyes at all times for safety and the

current ratio does not even meet the needs in some poorly designed centres.

Government needs to stop trying to cut costs and appreciate what they have. More

centres and the more bums on seat policies with 20 free hours etc has resulted in

higher costs as more children are in care. Cutting funding will ruin quality not

improve it.

No the teachers who are counted need to be on the floor and take planning and off

the floor time when they are covered by another teacher.

Teachers who are on the floor to be counted ONLY as a health and safety

regulation.

At times teachers are stretched enough with ratios, particularly when you factor in

under 2s. I feel services will begin to take advantage of this and not cover absent

staff or teachers will lose precious time to complete mandatory work towards

children's learning journey.

Absolutely not, this idea is incredibly stupid and put children's wellbeing at risk.

Children need adults supervising, observing and interacting with them for their

safety, well-being and their learning. Sometimes one child will need extra attention or

care and there needs to be other teachers available to care for and teach the other

children.

Those staff members should be on the floor maintaining a safe supervised

environment for the children. I believe that the current teacher to child ratios are

inadequate and that we should have more teachers on the floor not less.

If it is minimum adult to child ratios, then it is not on to leave floor, unless covered to

do so. Children need to be safe and ratios to be met at all times!

As long as they are readily available to help out, give advice, or come onto the floor

at a moment’s notice without exception.

In order to deliver high quality early childhood education, we need to have proper

and good ratios and have more on floor teachers counted in these ratios.




If they are not physically with the children, how on earth can they legally be counted

as part of the ratio? If they are away from the children the ratio obviously drops

therefore making the ratio of teachers to children illegal!!!

Young children need teachers.

Face to face, eyes on giving positive role modelled attention to children is what

matters most. A teacher not on the floor is not observing, scaffolding, guiding,

facilitating or supporting children's learning - not to mention it’s just not safe!

Quality, the importance of relationships.

They're being paid to be with children not leave. Have seen many teachers taking

advantage of this right. Lower pay would reflect this. As mentioned before, they have

it easier than primary teachers. If the requirement of the quality of centre is high,

meaning high expectations of learning stories, then yes it's okay to have a few hours

non-contact time.

The ratios are required for child safety and education. 20 children in a room with one

teacher is asking for trouble.

Because this prevents quality teaching and compromises safety of children and

teachers.

The ratios are there to protect children, to provide them with the best. Someone in

the office counted in ratio is not able to support the children or others teachers to

create a safe, calm, loving and educational environment.

Within reason some chores need to be done during work hours and if you are

available in the centre if needed just preoccupied putting on washing I don't see an

issue.

Teachers working 'on the floor' are always extremely stretched to capacity caring for

the children entrusted to them. Taking just one staff member out of the equation

leads to an extra burden for those remaining. It leads to burnout, high stress levels,

inadequate supervision let alone teaching and learning opportunities and could have

serious consequences for children in their care.

It won’t be quality, good practice and what about supervision!

Teachers and children all deserve support and quality. By basically decreasing the

physical on the floor ratios you are jeopardising the quality that every child and

teacher deserves.

It becomes a health and safety issue if there is not enough supervision on the floor!




This suggestion beggars belief. The ratios have been set as a safe and effective

minimum now, how can it remain safe and effective if fewer staff actually need to be

engaged with and caring for the children?

Let's have quality ratios to ensure good supervision and responsiveness.

Well-being and safety of children come first.

If they are counted as teacher to child ratio then they have to be on the floor, children

need to be kept safe and teachers need to feel safe and not feel like it's a money

thing, you need quality teaching not quantity teaching, managers who do this do not

have the passion for working with children, they shouldn't own or run a centre.

The legal minimum ratio at present is not satisfactory as it is! Leaving the floor puts

undue pressure on remaining teachers to 'cover'. Safety for both children and

teachers is paramount.

Health and safety issue, and there would not be many quality interactions and

learning happening.

I think that teachers need more non-contact time as most only get 2 hours per week

to do assessment for children. If off the floor teachers are not counted in ratio as this

affects supervision of children and creates a risk to safety and compromises quality

of education. We do have break cover and these teachers often do things like

washing etc.

There is a ratio for a reason and sometimes the ratio isn't enough to cover other

things. We need extra staff to be able to cover these so that the children are well

cared for and safe.

If they are not on the floor then they are not looking after the children putting more

pressure on the other teachers.

Safety of children and quality in the learning of children is then gone.

This situation puts huge pressure on remaining staff.

Example: in the under two's room, with 8 children. 1 teacher in the room with children

who have different needs at all times, the other teacher is in a meeting. It is still the

right ratio, but definitely no quality education and care. Or Example 2: in the mixed

age over two's room, with 20 children. 1 teacher in the room with children who have

different interests, strengths, dispositions, needs at all times, the other teacher is in a

meeting. It is still the right ratio, but definitely no quality education and care.

This puts both the safety of the child and staff at risk. How can you provide quality

care, education, interactions when you are 'off the 'floor'? The teacher needs to be

replaced by another teacher/reliever to stay within ratio ON the floor.




Safety, quality of care and education.

It can be dangerous for the children and teachers.

This would compromise safety and the education of the children. It would also put

undue stress on the staff in the room with the children.

Child safety.

No. It is definitely not okay!!

Anything can happen to children if a teacher steps out. Children aren't silly. They

know when there isn't an adult present. They test boundaries all the time. There

should always be cover for teachers who are on non-contact. Or employ someone

extra to do those duties of kitchen hand, washing etc.

This would be nice but it would also mean teachers being run off their feet. You

could end up with 2 adults to 30 2-5 year olds.

Quality care requires quality supervision and engagement.

Because they are not always on the floor and don't have the same skills and training

as a qualified teacher.

That's not providing quality education for our children.

Adult to child ratio means the number of adults caring and education children. It

could easily become 2 teachers trying to do crowd control with other staff (in ratio)

doing other jobs. This puts children's safety at high risk, lowers the chances of their

needs being met (especially infants) and reduces educational activities.

No it definitely is not ok. It lowers the quality of service and we have ratios in place

so that children are provided with quality care, and are kept in a safe nurturing

environment. Who is left responsible for the children? An example my manager is

sitting in her office. I go to her and say I need help on the floor as it is busy and

cannot manage the floor with the amount of children I have. She refuses to come on

the floor as she has admin to do. Who is accountable as I am left with crying babies

in the sleep room, infants to feed and nappies to change??? Who takes

accountability??

If you are not actively working with the children, and engaging with them, then you

are not part of the ratio and should not be counted as such. An extra teacher should

be employed to cover meetings, non-contact time etc

Not ideal or even safe for children.

The children's safety is paramount at all times. There should always be a minimum

amount of teachers supervising if not more than the minimum amount. Under 5's are

at a critical age for development and people need to take that more seriously.




Teachers are NOT babysitters!!! There is a huge amount of teaching and learning

occurring and not just anyone can do this job, and do it well.

This will endanger the safe of the children in our care. The ratios are high enough as

they are.

Children deserve to be educated and for this to be achieved with the desired learning

outcomes there is a need for teachers to be present and interacting with them. Other

tasks necessary for the day to day running of an ECE centre should be done during

non-contact time.

Children are precious. They deserve a good ratio of teachers for quality interactions,

instead of a teacher just doing crowd control. Furthermore, children move so fast. it

doesn’t take very long for a child to need help. I firmly believe that the ratios should

be in eyesight of a teacher, not licensed for the whole centre, for both the children’s

and teachers sake.

No way. That would put strain on the teachers left to now monitor a higher amount

of children with fewer adults. Does no one see how dangerous that could be?

Because they're not adding to the ratio?! Why is that even a question!? The whole

point is that teachers never have to keep an eye on (let alone have high quality

interactions with!) too many children at once.

Those with the children and on the floor should be the only ones counted in ratio.

I would be furious to know it was possible for 1staff member alone to supervise 50

children while 4 were 'off the floor'.

How can they be counted if they are not actually on the floor caring and working with

our children how would this be a good outcome for children?

No I feel this is putting far too much pressure on staff on the floor plus it would be

putting children at risk. There is a reason for ratios after all.

It is critical that young children are supervised under strict ratios for the wellbeing of

both the children and the staff.

They need to be on the floor for safety and help

This is absolutely ridiculous who will be supervising the children then!

We need all staff on deck to help with child: teacher ratios..... Hire a cleaner or a

kitchen hand to do all those duties - we need more people in the classroom so we

can provide quality education and care

Puts more stress on those with the children. Safety is paramount.




The teachers counted as in ratio should be on the floor with the children and when

leaving the floor be covered. There becomes an issue with lack of supervision and

accidents happen.

If they are not physically supervising children then how are they counted in ratio??

They should only be included in ratio if they are on the floor.

The point of ratios is that the teachers are "with the children". How can we provide a

safe environment for children?

Children will suffer as well as staff left to cope. It puts everyone at risk.

No would have serious impact on already stretched ratios and ultimately quality of

care for our most precious citizens

Quality!!!

Minimum ratios do not necessarily reflect quality (e.g. with under twos). To allow a

teacher to be 'off the floor' but still counted in ratios puts pressure on remaining

teachers, is unsafe for children, and lowers quality even further.

How could this be safe for staff and children? Effectively taking staff off the floor

without other staff taking over that teacher’s role is a huge health and safety issue.

This would be very risky practice. It is important that children are safely supervised

and that teachers are supported to ensure the best.

This does NOT equate to quality early childhood education.

I feel this would then be putting children at risk as some centre policies have that

when an infant is being feed it is a 1:1 ratio which means that there could be at times

no one on the floor watching the children.

As it is with the current ratio and teachers on floor ensuring a high quality learning

has been a challenge for many.

We want quality care and this is when accidents happen that can be prevented!

Once again quality care.

This creates an environment where teachers feel justified in their decision to leave

the floor and work in another part of the centre. This creates an environment where

on floor ratios are just ignored and the safety of the children and teacher are

potentially jeopardised. Speaking from personal experience of having to manage up

to 20 children by myself, including having to change nappies or clean up in the

bathroom. This is absolutely not ok, and can happen on a very regular basis. Admin

should be scheduled as NON CONTACT time, so the ratios are kept in check.




Because there are so many other duties that need to be done within a day and if

there are not enough teachers the work is not going to get completed.

Accidents will happen as not enough staff.

Teachers counted within the ratio should always be on the floor with the children.

ECE is more than just babysitting children. Actual education, documentation,

administration and care tasks are just the beginning of ECE. Take all that away and

the quality of care and education will also vanish.

If it is for planning and admin. There should be a time limit though. And as long as

the teachers off the floor are nearby.

Quality care is directly related to teacher child ratio.

The minimum ratios are too low at present, in my practical experience, and should

be raised. I note that the National Party, in opposition, pledged to improve the under

2s rate to 1 teacher to 4 children (and fund for this), and they have used the GFC as

an excuse not to do this (while still funding many billions of dollars of tax cuts for

higher income earners). I have a particular concern for the minimum ratio for 2 year

olds (children aged 24 to 36 months) being 1:10. I believe this is unsafe and an

unreasonable step for children to adjust to on their second birthday.

When a teacher is off the floor they can't help children in need, e.g. toileting, getting

changed. If a few need these needs at once there will be no other teachers left to

supervise, play, teach with the other children.

This happens sometimes at the centre where I work when people go for breaks,

lunches and at other times for meetings etc. From 10am to 1pm we have one less

teacher "on the floor" Doing this spreads everyone thinly and is not quality

education.

Ratios should include those actually supervising/ having eyes on working with the

children.

It is downright unsafe if they are off the floor but in ratio. Teachers in ratio need to be

actively supervising children.

The ratio is there for a reason...the children's well-being and safety. Teachers who

are counted in this ratio need to be on the floor.

Minimum adult child ratios are set to ensure quality and safety. These ratios should

be on the floor ratios.

Children need supervision and you can't count someone in another room who isn't

focusing on them.




This practise is not putting children's best interests at heart or protecting their right to

quality care and education.

This is only to increase the profits of someone very close to the Minister. How can

this be good practice, it is unfair on those left on the floor. I don't understand how this

can be legal.

There is a minimum legal adult to child ratio for a reason! To provide the children

with a safe learning environment.

The ratio will be compromised putting the safety of the children at risk, the teacher

will not be able to teach as they will be busy supervising and observing the children

to ensure their safety.

Safety of the children and staff.

To give the best teaching practice we can give to our children we need to be always

meeting the minimum ratios or more at all times for our children’s future depends on

it.

If teachers doing admin work and working at the centre but not with the kids are

included in the ratios it has the potential to skew the data, i.e. one teacher could be

in charge of 20-30 kids rather than the 10 the ratio suggests. Under resourcing leads

to teachers being under equipped to do educate the kids they are working with,

resulting in more kids not being school ready, leading to complications for prep

teachers and the education system as a whole.

We need high quality care.

Children are there to be educated! Or to have their play facilitated so they are

learning through it. Not babysat by less than the minimum requirement. This is our

future you are talking about.

Safety issues! They are essentials not in ratio if they aren't there working with the

children. The minimum ratio or 1:10 and 1:5 is already difficult especially with full day

centres which provide routines such as sleeping, nappy changing, feeding bottles.

How can 1 person care for 10 under 2 year olds on their own! They won't even be

able to supervise this many children let alone provide personal interactions and or

any education/ teaching to the children!

The ratios are there to provide adequate supervision less teachers on floor = less

teaching and even more babysitting

Why have a minimum ratio if centres are going to break that rule!

If they can leave the floor then the ratio changes, this is not quality or safe practice!




I am Head Teacher at my centre and get 2 hours non-contact maximum to do all

admin work including planning, writing learning stories, reviews, letters in support of

families, liaising with other professional services, checking forms and filing. It just

can't be done in that time and I get no time allotted to teacher certification (I am

provisionally certificated). Hence I am sitting at home on a Saturday night writing

learning stories, having already been in to my centre to do three hours (unpaid)

overtime already today.

Minimum legal adult to child ratios already stretch teachers across 'the floor' and to

have the ability to take teachers from this ratio could potentially lead children and

teachers to be in dangerous situations.

The reason for the ratio is for the safety and well being of the children, if you are off

the floor you are not with the children. Children come first for quality teachers and

quality teaching.

Teachers need to have non-contact times to catch up on portfolios which are

evidences that children are learning and progressing really well

They should be on the floor working with the children. Off the floor time needs to be

covered by relief or other teachers.

Teachers should be given time off the floor and covered by relieving staff so as to

keep child/adult ratios.

As being In-ratio but off the floor it puts strain on teachers trying to care for children

whether it be sleep time, nappy changing, inside or outside. With one less pair of

hands it means less quality education as people become stressed and overworked.

For quality education children need good ratios. If one teacher comes off the floor for

admin then they should be replaced to keep the ratios. If this doesn't happen then

the teachers on the floor are under pressure and the education of the children is of a

lower standard.

Are you kidding? This will put added pressure on the teachers left on the floor and

will mean supervision and safety will be put at risk

We have paper work too!

I do not believe these teachers off the floor should be counted in the ratio. Ratios

should apply to teacher: child on the floor within each room.

Because they're not actually working with the children. Research shows children

learn best when teachers work in collaboration with them, and when group sizes are

small.

That would defeat the whole purpose of having a minimum ratio.




Obviously these people have not worked in an ECE setting. The more teachers the

better.

Safety of children is comprised if minimum ratios aren't adhered to at all times. The

min ratio isn't a quality ratio as research has proven.

There are legal requirements we must adhere to and to count a person in ratio when

they are doing admin or non-contact is not meeting these requirements. Not to

mention the extra strain it puts on already busy teachers.

If you are in ratio then your presence is needed. If you are doing admin you need to

have someone to cover your in ratio role.

Our job is to work with children! Children come first and they are our priority! Yes we

need time for 'time off the floor' but this can be organised with someone to cover this

time.

The minimum ratios are already ridiculous so there is no way teachers counted

within the ratios (if running at the minimum) should be allowed to leave the floor.

How would parents feel knowing that 15 under twos are left with only two teachers?

This is about the health and wellbeing of children. If centres are funded on this basis,

then the ratios should be strictly adhered to. Admin is a core responsibility of a Head

Teachers' work, so staffing coverage needs to allow time to do this. Private for profit

centres are the worst culprits, and in my view, putting money before providing

exceptional care for children and staff is criminal.

If you are not within ratio that is illegal there are days like that where you get no

paper work done. But why are we here teaching? For the children they are the most

important we are preparing them for the next stage of their lives, going to school.

You can't always do the paper work you need to do on time and that is reality but it

does get done because teachers are committed.

Because you are breaching adult/child ratios as well as the kids are our first priority

and also you are putting too much pressure on the staff.

The minimum legal required teachers is there for a reason and that is in the worst

case where a child needs one on one when they are hurt, then the others are well

looked after.

We need to keep up to date with the required paperwork. Admin work is done by the

admin person.

Ratios are there for a reason. With teachers counted in ratio being off the floor

attending to other work results in an undesirable working environment for both

teachers and children. It is not just the teachers who are affected! If a teacher is off

the floor then there should always be someone replacing their spot.




It is so frustrating being a teacher working with a group of children and your support

teacher walking away to even answer the phone. Once on the floor they should stay

on the floor.

The 1 to 10 ratio is already hard on teachers and children alike. Taking a teacher off

the floor puts the other staff under unnecessary pressure.

Children learn through relating to others. The ratios are already inadequate for

maintaining a child's intelligence and for fostering oral literacy.

What is the point of ratios if they aren't about quality or safety? We should be making

ratios stricter, not making it harder for quality interactions.

Once again this lowers the quality of care being provided to children.

Kids need looking after.

This would take away the main reason we are there, for the children. It is important

to give the children the engaging learning and care they deserve, creating

meaningful moments. If someone goes off the floor then a teacher may not be able

to do this as there would not be anyone else to look after the other children and

make sure they are kept safe. We are here for the children first. Early childhood is

moving away from being there for the child to making the paper work more important

and that is wrong.

Yes I believe teachers should be allowed to go off the floor to do paperwork as it is

required for teachers to do children's portfolios, planning, wall displays, organise

events etc. I got to be honest though but I don't believe ministry of education really

understand that if people aren’t being paid what they are worth then they will quit.

Passion can only go so far for a teacher before they snap and leave because they

aren’t valued as a staff member. Nonetheless staff should cover one another when

they go off the floor but 1/10 ratio is not a good ratio.

The ratios should always be who is on the floor working with the children, admin and

other work is not counted in the ratio's otherwise you could potentially have all but

one teacher on the floor and the others just off doing other things and not even

supervising the children. It’s not ok for our kids to be left on their own. Could we see

a situation where children aren't even being monitored in some centres but adults

are present in the building?

Services claim to have a 1:3 ratio when in fact they don't, due to staff leaving the

floor for non-contact and admin. It's misleading.

Obvious really. Health and safety issues for a start. Quality of education is clearly

affected with a teacher absent from the program.




Additional administration and extra things need to time set aside for teacher to go off

the floor or it becomes a strain on the rest of the team.

Not fair for teachers or children 'on the floor'.

Because the minimum adult to child ratio is for the safety of the children, they need

supervision.

Otherwise we would not get time to be able to do the paper work during work time

but have to take it home and do which is not fair on us who have families and it is

taking time away from them.

Answered no because it is unsafe and creates lack of quality care.

No because technically they are not in ratio if they are not on the floor with the

children. This is not quality care or education.

A teacher away from the children cannot engage with them or supervise them,

leaving the remaining teachers with more than the maximum amount of children, if

the "off the floor" teacher is counted within the minimum ratio...this puts the children

at risk as they may get hurt.....the teacher left on the floor cannot teach much, as she

has to supervise much more.

How can you call yourself a quality early childhood centre if you can't provide the

basic needs for children due to not having the right ratios. These days there are so

many centres piling children into their places like battery hens, paying teachers pub

wages, and providing terrible working conditions. Many teachers aren't being given

time off the floor to do learning stories because of teacher child ratios being so low,

planning meetings are being held outside of working hours (many not paid for),

which means many teachers are working outside of working hours to complete the

paper work side of things...i.e. learning stories, self-review, agendas and minutes of

meetings, budgets, answering and sending emails to families etc.

There are minimum child teacher ratios for a reason. Children should not be left

unattended .

If teachers are counted within the adult child ratio then they should be on the floor

working with the children.

No, because quality of care would go down.

If they are not on the floor they are not working with the children and the children

aren't getting the care and educational guidance they are being promised.

As long as teachers are communicating with each other and everyone is on board

with it.




As the legal minimum requirement for ratios staff are already hard pressed, to then

have a staff member leave the floor could potentially leave one teacher with 10

infants...how can we provide quality care in this scenario. What parent, fully informed

of this, would feel secure leaving their child?

Then you are out of ratio aren't you - you are not meeting legal minimums.

Ratios are important if teachers are counted in ratio but off the floor how is this safe

and quality care? The ratios are set to ensure children are looked after and

supervised appropriately having staff off the floor when they are needed to supervise

could be dangerous.

Teacher child ratios go a long way towards ensuring quality practice. While each

teacher needs adequate non-contact time each week it is not fair to the children or

the other teachers that release time change ratios and put stress on the children in

the care of the remaining, out of ratio teachers. It is also unfair and unprofessional

for the remaining teachers to be put in this potentially compromising and stressful

situation.

They are there to be with the children - observing, engaging. That's what their job is

and that's what they got their degree for.

The quality of education would go down such as on- on-one and group work.

Teachers would be reduced to just keeping crowd control which would then become

a very stressful job.

Teachers need to have non-contact time where they can work on learning stories or

appraisals.

If you are not on the floor you should not be counted within the ratios. It is the

teachers on the floor who are teaching so they are the adult/child ratio not the person

doing administration in the office. I do think each teacher should be given non-

contact time to do administration work but when not on the floor you are not part of

the ratios.

Safety and quality will be compromised.

If you are counted in ratio that means you are on the floor with the children.

As long as things are being done that will benefit the children.

You cannot leave a room out of ratio, but if the ratio allows make the most of the time

to catch up on the growing paperwork.

If they leave the floor, yes the ratio is off.

Safety and quality. Again refer to the research.




Of course not! The teacher child ratio needs to be applicable to teachers on the

floor, for safety reasons - therefore being able to adequately supervise children in the

appropriate group size. What’s the point of having an adult to child ratio if the adults

are not "there".

Not sure.

That is just not good practice at all. Ratios are on the floor, it's called contact for a

reason. If anything the ratios need to be reduced 1:8 as the very least, and the MOE

should fund accordingly.

Because centres usually cover the non-contact time with another teacher.

I believe that if there is a minimum legal adult to child ratio then that should be in

place at all times to ensure the health, safety and wellbeing of the children within that

environment. It is hard enough to supervise children in a 1:5 or 1:10 ratio let alone

having teachers go off the floor. You will see teachers burning out a lot sooner if you

are going to place them in these situations.

Would a primary teacher leave their class with an untrained teacher?

The health and safety of the children is paramount so we need more adults on the

floor.

Adult/child ratios are there to ensure that children have teachers working with them

therefore those teachers MUST be working with children.

The minimum legal requirement is based on teachers looking after the children - this

is not possible if they are off the floor. It puts pressure on the remaining teachers and

compromises the health and safety of the children.

Because adequate supervision is not met the children will lose out.

It is so stupid already as it is the minimum legal child ratio as suppose to a maximum

than I feel they should be able to leave the floor to attend to other required tasks for

completion.

That's a scary one, yet again eroding the work that we do with children, possibly

leaving children mostly in the care of untrained and unskilled workers. Early

childhood teaching is one of the most complex roles I know of. We need to be with

the children, health, safety, education, care-giving, attachment, relationships,

observing, resourcing, teaching, Te Whariki.

What about the children??? Many children we see coming through ECE centres

require a lot of work!!! That is because many of their parents are too busy working

and don't have the energy to teach them good values, provide rules and

expectations. Some children are out of control by 4 years old. What will happen

through their education and life??? Our centres also provide early intervention for




families because they have experienced and skills teachers to support and develop

children, while also providing guidance and advice to the parents and grandparents.

The government should be covering the teacher that have to do the admin side of

things like primary teachers are paid for.

We need educated qualified teachers to be able to assess children's learning and

program plan. Non-contact time for teachers is expensive and for many centres not

viable. I know many teachers are expected to work at home. Assessment and

planning is part of teaching.

The ratios are already too high- especially for 2 year olds.

Cheats children out of quality time with caring adults to extend their learning and

development.

No absolutely not, the minimum legal ratios are there to protect the children and offer

them the maximum care. If you have 30 children and three teachers and one leaves

"the floor" to do admin that leaves 2 to 30, then a child requires a nappy change and

that would leave 1 to 30, which is unsafe and less than ideal.

Supervision suffers, other staff are stretched and the learning programme and

environment suffers.

Separate time should be made available for admin or other work. Ratios on the floor

should be maintained.

The minimum ratios are just that and it would place extra pressure on the other staff

members if this was the case.

As a centre manager I find the legal ratios are already high as they are and are NOT

quality education.

Only if they are replaced by other qualified teachers - otherwise never: children need

qualified people in their immediate environment. Less paperwork might help with

preventing teacher burn-out; levels of which are ridiculous.

No teachers need to be on the floor and available to meet the children's needs. Non-

contact time should be scheduled above contact hours or managers need to think

outside the box. Perhaps paying staff 2 hours non-contact a week to acknowledge

work completed at home in teachers own time.

Children need supervision, guidance and attention to their learning, and extension

according to their interests. Staff need support. This needs to happen in tandem or

else the results could be disastrous, both for the children and for the practice.

There needs to be funding to allow qualified teachers to leave the floor to do other

work such as professional development during work hours etc




Quality and safety will be compromised and some services will capitalise on this just

to boost profits. Does no one actually care about the children in all of this ????

Working with the children means working with the children!

If not on the floor then in practical terms they are not in ratio.

Teachers counted on ratio need to be on floor teaching - for safety and teaching

reasons.

Firstly please stop using industrial language we are not on the floor although we may

be literally we are engaged in teaching children. Not OK to count people who are not

present/engaged with children.

Delivery of quality ECE is dependent on the provision of qualified teachers.

Teachers counted within a ratio must be working with the children for the safety of

the children - this is why the ratio is in place.

This is not in the best interests of children and I believe it is potentially dangerous. I

have been told of times when there are no qualified teachers in the room (they are

on the premises) somewhere in the building. The narratives around the frustration of

working with non-qualified staff have increased since the reduction to 50/80%.

Although one would hope common sense would be enough to ensure we keep good

staff child ratios, when it comes to finances we could see children lose out so the

centre can make a profit financially.

How dangerous for the children, and how are they being taught and learning without

teachers on the floor with them being involved.

One of the key benefits of qualified teachers in ECE is in the nature of interactions

that occur between the teacher and children.

Safety for both children and adults.

Safety, care and education of the children.

When working out the ratio of teachers to children it must be honest and truthful and

those doing admin or cooking should not count in that calculation.

This is not quality education for children; there is plenty of research out there

showing the importance of a higher teacher to child ratio

I say yes because this can be done when the adult to child ratio is covered. The days

when the numbers are low, it is a good opportunity for a teacher to leave the floor

and do a learning story for example to add to a child's portfolio.




Where is the quality, how can we know our children if no one has time to spend

quality time with them?

There should be enough flexibility within the staff ratio to provide quality care in the

instance of emergency, creative pursuits, accident, clean up, or bathroom break.

You would then be out of ratio!

How does this value our children of NZ? Paperwork is more important than having

them under sufficient care at all times? We need to have our teacher available for

them 24/7'when they are in our care, it's our job.

Teachers leaving the floor for non-contact should be factored into the ratios, if there

are not enough teachers to meet the ratios required then they stay on the floor. It

takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to balance the teachers’ non-contact

times and to ensure that there is the required amount of teachers in the environment

to work with the children. We have never counted our teachers that are off the floor

into our ratios. We are totally committed to employing enough trained teachers to

ensure that we are able to balance the ratios while also making sure that teachers

have the amount of time off the floor to engage in: goal setting for their own

professional growth, planning and assessment of children's learning, creating

documentation for wall displays, re-establishing environments, creating resources,

meeting with parents and spending times with other teachers that are also off the

floor to engage in professional dialogue.

Children don't shut down like robots when arsehole politicians and policy maker's

keep adding additional bureaucratic paperwork on top for PC reasons etc...

The current ratios area already inadequate e.g. one adult to 10 two year olds.

The danger to the children, extra workload for staff left on the floor, unsettled

children. Ministry chiefs need to work 'on the floor' for a month to realise how difficult

it is.

The exception to this might be when lots of children are asleep. One of the great

benefits of early childhood education is the good adult: child ratio which allows for

plenty of oral language development.

Absolutely not this is not fair for children who deserve more than government ratio.

This would reduce the quality of teaching and care.

Then there are not enough staff members to care for the children.

Minimum ratios in NZ are already too high. Research tells us (and so does our

curriculum) that young children lean best through responsive and reciprocal

relationships - ratios need to be improved not lessened.




This is completely unsafe. Having just left a place where the owner insisted on

putting herself in the ratio and then being off the floor for other things, I can tell you

first hand this is extremely dangerous practice. 3 teachers instead of 4, and a baby

chokes and stops breathing - what do you do with the 30 other children while 1 or

more teachers deal with the emergency?

Adult supervision is a must in early childhood education, if you have 30 children with

3 teachers (current ratio) and one teacher decided to go in the office for half an hour,

there is an extra work load put on the remaining to teachers trying to supervise 30

children at once. Also thinking about the children who expect guidance from adults. It

is difficult.

Minimum ratios are there for reasons of safety and wellbeing. Staff on admin work

are thus unable to fill those needs, therefore cushioning with extra staff is required.

Not if it means a higher ratio of children to 1 adult but if you were 3 teachers to 30

children for example and only 20 or under at centre for day then yes but you would

need to be available to come back on floor at a moment’s notice. But this would also

depend on the ages of the children as well.

Not really because the point of the ratios is to protect the children and to ensure

enough people are there to take care of them.

Definitely not...they aren’t working with children while doing admin or learning

story/portfolios. I can see this being abused as well if it was otherwise.

Parents pay for a service which lays out ratios at certain levels, to then have those

numbers altered is at best false advertising, and at worst fraud. This makes a farce

of child adult ratios as described to parents.

For quality care and education we need teachers on the floor.

It leaves centre out of ratio which leads to more chance for accidents to happen with

not enough supervision and stressful for other teachers.

Safety of the children is paramount. The ratios exist for a reason!

They are not with the children so how can they be counted "in ratio".

Teachers who are counted in ratio should actually be on the floor with the children.

This adds pressure to staff left and there isn't always time to go and get someone

back. Release time needs to be planned time to be effective for the teachers on the

floor and off. Allowing this practice adds up to higher ratios. At times children act fast

things change fast.

Minimum ratios are in reality not adequate as it is, teachers who are in that ratio are

essential on the floor.




What if all the teachers decided to leave the floor, who will be on the floor with the

tamariki? This idea is totally ridiculous.

When teachers are counted as part of the ratio then they should be actually working

with the children.

It is there for a reason otherwise it will become crowd control/ babysitting.

There are reasons for minimum requirements and even these requirements reflect

overwork for teachers. There will be a huge surge of unsupervised and uncared for

children if this is allowed to pass. If there is another person allocated to be 'on the

floor ' for breaks and non-contact then of course.

Having an in ratio teacher off the floor puts extra stress on the remaining teachers

and lowers the quality of care provided.

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