Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 6 AUGUST 1924

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Address in Reply. [5 AuarsT.] Questions. 137

WEDNESDAY, 6 AUGUST, 1924.

The SrKIKER (Hon. vV. Bcrtram, J[aree) took the <·hr,ir at 10 a.m.

AGDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS. PUB!.IC DEBT REDUCTION FUND.

The SPEAKER announced the receipt from the Auditor-General of his report on the transaot;ons in connection with the Public Deht Reduction Fund fot· the fmanrial year ended 30th J uno, 1924.

Orderc•d to bo printed.

Ql:ESTIOKS. MILK ANALYSES IN ::\11ETROPOLITAN AREA IN 1923.

Mr. KERR (Enoggcm) asked the Home Secretary-

" 1. How many samples of milk taken from milksellers were analysed in the metropolitan area during 1923?

"2. \V ere any samples found to be injurious to health?

" 3. How ma.nv licenses under the Milk Sellers' Regulat1ons have been cancelled as a result of inspections?"

Hon. J. G. A ppel.]

138 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Diseases in Plants, Etc., Bill.

HoN. M. J. KIRW "\N (Brisbane) replied-

" 1. A total of 259 legal samples were obtained in the Brisbane metropolitan area by officers of the Health Department during the fiscal year 1923-24.

"2. No InJurious ingrr-Uionts, other than added water, \\ere detected by the Government Anah-t during this period. Thirty-three sa-mples contaiued added water.

" 3. No licenses were cancelled."

Nu11BER OF E)fPLOYrEs AND TRAIN MILEAGE, RAILWAY DEFAr,niENT.

Mr. MOHGAN (Jiurilla) askcJ the Secre­tary for Railways-

" 1. 'iVhat is the numbN o£ employees in the Rail way Department, temporary and 1wrmanent?

" 2. \Yhat was the number on 30th June, 1914?

"3. \Vhat number of effective train miles was proJuccd in the course of the operations of the railways during the year 1913-14?

"4. ·wha.t was the munber of offcctiYc train miles produced in 1923-24 ?"

Tho SECRETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS (Hon. J. Larcombe. Ilcppr1) replied-

" 1. On 30th ,J uno, 1924-Pcrn1anent Temporary

'l'otal

" 2. On 30th J uno, 1914-Pormanent Temporary

14,107 2,833

16,940

11,7J3 3.202

Total 14,965 "3. 11,346,344 train miles in 1913-14. " 4. 11,647,077 train miles in 1923-24.

In the ten years 1.470 mileB of now railway haye boon built, but the larger engmos keep the train mileage propor­tionately low. There arc now 2 8 employees per mile, compared with 3.27 in 1914, and the earnings arc now £337 per employee, comparcJ \l'ith £245 in 1914."

RAILWAY IVORKS AT \I'ILLO\','BURN.

Mr. ROBERTS (Ea,,/ Toowoo:n ba) asked the Secretary for Railwayo-

" 1. vVhat is the cost to data of the railway works at \Villowbum?

" 2. Vvhat proportion of such amount is intcn:"t?

" 3. \Vhat number of men arc at pro"ent employed on this work?

" 4. \Vhen will the works be completed and used for the purposes intended?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. Larcombe, 1i cppcl) replied-

" 1. £74,105, including land resump­tions.

"2. Nil. Interest is not capitalised. "3. G.

" 4. I am unable to say Jcfinitely,"

NEw RAILWAY STATION AT IPSWICH.

Mr. ROBERTS (East Toon·oomba) asked the Secretary for Railways-

" 1. \Vhat is the cnst to date of the new station at Ipswich?

" 2. \Vhat proportion of such amount i' interest?"

The SBCRET"'\RY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. Larcombe, Kcppc:) replied-

" 1. £160.913, including lanJ resump-tion enrthvvorks. platfonns, subway, and retaining \valls."

"2. ~il. Interest is not capitalised."

DISASTER TO ::\lorxT PERRY EXCt:RSIO:<! TnAJN­ArQUIT1'\L oF DRIVER AXD Gt:Aim.

J\lr. BRAND (JJurrum) a'kod the Secretary for RaihYays-

"1. Is he a"aro that \Yallaeo Chap­man, driYer, and \Villi:~m \Yalker, guard, of the excu1·sion train ·which rnet \Yith disaster on the J\fount Perry Railwav line in Febrnarv last, ha vo been found not guilty of the charge, le-:cllod against them and discharged by judge and jury?

"2. If so, is it his intention to dis­continue the persecution of these men by offering thom reinstatement?"

The SECHETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. r,,u·combo, I1 C]J]J(' 1) replied-

" 1. }'CS.

" 2. The sug-ge·,tion of persecution i5 absurd. "\ppllrations for re-employnwnt aro under considera iion."

PAPERS. The following papers were laid on the

table, and ordered to bo printcJ :­Proclamation under the Profiteering

Prevention Act of 1920. Regulations unJer the Public Son-ice ~let

of 1922. Regulations unJer the l'droleum Act

of 1923.

DISEASES IN PLA::--iTS ACT Al\lEND­MENT BILL.

INITL\TION IN CO))}JJTTEE.

(Jir. J'o/lock, (Jrcgnrp, in the chair.)

The CIIAIRJ\lAX on taking the chair, said ,_I Jcsirc to take this oppodunity of thanking· hon. members for the honour thov ha~'C conferred on n1c, and of expressing the" hope that their choir-) will be justified by tho fairne~s and in1parti:d!ty cf 1ny actions.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICL'LTURE (Hon. IY. X. Gillics, F'ac!wm): I beg to rnovc-

" T1u:t it is introclnced to Plants Act of lars."

dc·cirab]e that a Biil be ana"nd ihP Di~('ilSC~ in 1916 in certain pc.rticn-

Dc·fore proceeding I wish to compliment you, J\Ir. Pollock, on your election t-o the position you no\V occupy. l au1 quite satis~ ficd from your pr'. vious rN·o!'d in the chair that vcu will carrY out Your dutie--.. ilnpar­tially' and capably and to the satisfaction of all hon. members.

This is tho first Bill of the s0ssion, and a Yery important one to the fruitgrowcrs of QuecnslanJ. It is really one OYt:'r \Yhich

DisosP~ in Plants, Etc., Bill. [6 AuG<.'ST.] Appl'enticeship Bill. 139

little time need be epcnt, because the neces­sity for it is obvious. It is a Bill of twn ,clause-" b:, which it is propc· (~ ~ to tighten llp prc•:-.cnt l< ~l~laticn ai1d giYo greater powt•r to the i n~pL"Ctor". The n0ccs~ity for these provisioils ha been cn'pha~i7ed tn lllP

the fruit inspectors, the Director of Fruit 1\turc, th<> fruitgrowcrs themselves, tho

fruit n1arketing cornrnittec, and the Yarious District Councils. and particular!\ in the intcrt•st of the Stanthorpc fruitt"ro,\·ers. V\' e find that in mmt cases of rotting fruit occur­ring in a district when it is the duty of the inspectors to f'nforrc, the~ pr,~scnt la\v the po\Yer given i insuffiei0r.t. It Jucs not rnakc for expedition. rJ11lcrc is too nnich ·delay in enforcing· the present law, and we \\ant to give tho i11speciors grr:-atcr po\ver and i_·) bring about, if po~siblP, 100 per cf'nc. destruction of rottcu fruit in frni1gro\\ ing areas. If 99 per cent. of the growers destroy their infected frnit and the onc-h;mdrcdtll grower fails to d<·stroy his, the whole cam­-paign is ind1cctivo.

It is through this Bill of two clauses that \Ye intencl to tighten np tho existing lcgi.~lation nnd g!vo grcah.'r po"·cr to the inspectors-J)0\\01' that will PJHtble them to act n1orc Quickly. The presunt law nece;;:­sitatc J a sutnn1ons being is:"ucd and a lot of tinw hcing wasted be~'ore inspPctors can compel growers to destroy disease<! fruit, which is allowc'd to rot on the ground. Frnitgrowcrs themsclvr··: desire this lcgisla­tioll in order to protPrt th['n1sclY0S frmn ihe fruit pc·ts, and I think the nec:,,sitv for it is oh\'ious to the Committee. OJ,J the second reading of the Bill I shall ginl the onicial reasons \. hy it should be passed.

l\Ir. ::\lOORE (.·1ubi[!n,ll): I admit that the Bill proposed to be introduced bv the Secre­~ar~r for .. \.gricultu.re is very nc-=~es:,ary, but 1t Js rath<r pccuhar that we have carried on sir;co 1916 \Yith the existing legislation which is now declared to be indfectivc. \V e have done this in face of requc,t•,, from the grower,, that more 0ffective lcV-islation shonld he enforced. It is otrange that the Government, when putting the mea·cm·e throug'1 in the first instance, failed to make adeq:latc provision, and give the inspectors £nffic1cnt po\ver to protect gro\Ycrs against infC'ction.

The SECRETARY FOR -'\GRlC'rLTURE: Of coursa tlw.t argum·::nt applies to all a1ncnding lt.gis­Iatlon.

Mr. C'IIOORE: It might apply to all amond­mg· legislation, but this seems to be such an important matter and the growol'S have had FO Ycry many n1ccting'> asking for redrc• ·, that it seems rather late in the dav to introduc<' this legislation after the damage has be0n done.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICL'LTl:HE: The only thing to d0 ic for you to vote against it.

Mr. c1IOORE: The Secretary for Agricul­ture knows that it is not too lato to take effpct nPxt y0ar.

The SECRET.\HY FOE AGEICTLTURE: The Tom-1<ins dog attitude again. It is either too late or the time is not ripe with your party.

:VIr. :\IOOR E : The Secretary for Ao:ricul­tnre ohj0c:ts to anybody 1naking rcn1arks ·except him·elf. He introduces a measure nnd says it is absolutely p•,rfoct. and then'. when it is found ineffective and we say it should have been drafted more carefullv 'he gets annoyed. There is nothing to b~

annoy<'d about. The only thing is that. he is late in bringing in cffectiYP legislation. l object because the l3ill '""" not brought iu beforP.

l\Ir. TAYLOR (Win<lsor): Althcug·h I do not know the contents of the Biil at the prc3ent tin1c, I think this is a very necessary measure. In 1918 or 1919, v.~hen J\h. Lcnnon "\Yas ;-)ccrctary for A .. griculturo, every person in th<' \Yholo of tlw m0tropolitan area who rrrcw fruit trec:s had t'l send particulars as to the number and \'arietv of the trees .and register their nan1os wi1 h the Department of AgTicnlrure; but that is all that was done. The registrations went in by the thousand to the Agricultural Department, and there ~,ra~ no sysi c1n of inspection of an~ kind carried out to SC'<' whether the fruit trees \YPre iufestod with disease or Jeot. I do not know whether, under this proposed Bill, it is intended to do anything in that direction or pot. but if not I certainly think some­tlling shoul'cl be d;ne in that' direction. I 1 hink our trouble arises chiefly from badly infeotecl fruit trees in the metropolitan and other districts, from w hi eh disease spreads throughout the orchards of Queensland. I bring that .under the notice of the l\Iinister, and hope he will make an attempt to ·deal \Yith the matter. Xothing has been done in the past. The department was literally SllO\\'~d under with registrations, but no a1ternpt \Yas n1.ade to compel the dc""trncti.on of fruit trees inf<"tcd with die ease.

Qne'tion put and passed. Th€' I-fouse resumed.

The CHAIRoiAX reported that the Committee l1ad co1ne to a resolution.

The rewlution was .1greed to.

FIRST READI:\G.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICGLTL:RE (Hon. \Y. "0:. Gil!ies, Eaclwm) presented the Bill. and mo\·ed-

'· That the Bill be now read a first tinH:-.·'

QuE''tion pu,t and passed.

The second reading of the Bill was made an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

APPRE:'-JTICESHIP BILL.

IxiTIATION m Co}D!ITTEE.

(Jfl'. l'ol/ock, Grr(!ory, in the chair.)

The SECRET.'I.RY FOR PCBLIC V\ORKS (:f~Ion. \Y. Forgan Smith, Jlackay): Bcfor•· 1noying the 1notion standing in my name, I wish alw to congratulate you, Mr. Pollock, on vour appointment as Chairrnan of Com­mittees. I realise that you have the ability to carrv out the duties of that office with credit t'a yourself and with adYantage to the House. You possess those qualitic' of quick decision and firmness that are neec,sary 111

1 hat position.

beg to move-" That it is desirable that a Bill be

introduced to regulate apprenticeship in certain trades and industries."

This Bill practically places in statute. form the regulations that haYo becu iu oper:twn for the past year under th£' Industrial .. Arbi­tration Act. Apprenticeship is a problem about which there can be a goocl deal of difference of opinion as to the methods to be adopted, but thoro can he no doubt as to

Hon. W. Forgan Smith.]

140 Apprenticeship Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apprenticeship Bill.

the necessity and dc,irability of giving Queensland boys an opportunity to learn trades counected with Queensland industries.

.Ylr. KERR: It took you a long time to recognise that.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC vVORKS: The hon. member who interjects talks as one lackir:g knowledge of the po,ition. There is no one in this f'hambcr who has taken a rnorc activo interest in 1hc (Juestion of train­in~ boys to trades than I have done for many ) cars past; but the hen. mcmbe1· is a member of a party \lhich at least r0prcsents a policy wbich ·does not lw•lievC' in control of apprenticeship at all; he would like to have boys exploited, as they were in the past, \Vithont regulatiDn or <:ontruJ.

i),Ir. MAXWELL: V\ as that your experience when you were a boss'?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC 'YORKS: The Bill provide' for the placiug in statute form of the rrg·ulations which hayo worked suece"-sfully for a year pa:::t, and embodies the principles cciJtaincd in tho.se regulatiom. I will go i11to the matter YCl y fully on the second reading of the Bill. but I think that hon. n1etnbcrf' gencrnlh UlT, full_,. a\Yare of the conditions already.

::\1r. 2\lOORE (.;tuiJiyny): '\Yhile cmgratu­lating· the l'vlicistcr en the introduction of the Bill, to my mind it is long oYerdue. I am sorry to hear him sav that it is only to l0gisJq_tC in aceordanc0 ,,-:.ith the regulations that have been issued. Those rpgulations do not go far enough in regard tD the qnrstion of age< rro 11l,Y Illincl, thP limiting of the age \Vhe~ a person can becotne an apprentice (Oppositiou laughter.)

The SECRETARY FOR PJ:BLJC "WoRKS: It doe• nothing of the kind. That is done away with entirely under the regulations.

:J-11~. J;!QOHE: This is a copy of the regu­lations which I asked for, which I haYe hore.

The SECRET.IRY FOR Pt:BLIC \\-oRKs: ''~'hen did you ask for it?

Mr. MOORE: The dav before vestcrdav. (Opposition laughter). · - ,

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLTC '\YORKS: '\"hom did you get that from'?

:Vlr-. :\lOOR E : I sent to the GoYcrnment Printing Office for it. I am glad that the lVIinlf'h-'l' has reccgnispd that this is an untenable position to take up.

The Elc.cRETARY FOR PeBLil \VoRKS: It woulrl be an abmrd position to eay that >t

boy n1u:.;;t ;:;t:! rt an appr0nticc:-:hip bctwef'n thP age" of fiftcon and sixteen year~ and at 110 o1-hcr age.

:Mr. F. A. C'oorER : I know a case in 1921 whcr'J the coult !gayc pennission for ~ boy cf .eighteen or nineteen to becon1e an apnrn1tlc£~<

:vir. ;yiOORE: That is only in an excep­tional < asr. I ha Ye not seen the Bill, and thP :\Iinieter bas not giYcn much information in regard to it. To mv miGd this is one of 1hr· most irnportant quc~tions 1vhieh ran come before thi., House. I n•cognise that the }Josition in Queensland has becmne serions owing to thP i1nnossibilit.v of a bo~ being ahle to secnre admission into a trade that he wants to get into. The position has been improved during the la"t couple of years, but I do not think we hayc gone far enough

[Hon. W. Porgan Srnith.

in that dir0ction. Other States have gone considerably further than Queomland, and I would like to sec, when thrs Brll comes along, exactly \Yhat it" provisi~n:s arc~. I arn not o·oing· to discuss the provn1ons ot the Bill nm";., b~causC' I haYc not oeen it. I under··tand that the rcgulatrons have not been strictly adhered to, and tha~ tho Brll is going to give a yet grca~er latrtude than n:i'n at the present. trme. To my mmd the court is tied up in the way of restrrctwns as it should not be; the rc>stnctrons are too great. I \Yant to g·iye boys ··:xho ·want . to become expert tradesmen every opportumty to clo so. and not to see them rcstncted _by hrYing lCstriC'tionc pl~ccd o;1 them whrc_h g·ive them no opportumty. vv c know that rt ;s no! po."ible now for boys to be apprentrced nnd become efficient tradesmen . except throu~h the course• of training pronded at the Technical Gollcg·e.

Mr. F. A. COOPER interjected.

J'vlr. MOO RE : The;·e. are ri'sh'!ctions m ma.ny tradr·s. The bmldmg trade rs one.

The SECRETARY FOR Pl-BLJC 'YORKS: The lll'oportion there is bvo journeymen to one apprentice.

::\Ir MOOR E : I lw vc asked for the regula­ti~ns,' hut they are not in an up-lo-datc form.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLJO ''' ORKS : As a matter of fact, we have difficulty_ m gettmg mmc employeE to take apprentrc<'s at all, ali 11ough there arc many who employ the cmota w hi eh they a.re allmved under the ~'\Yards.

Mr. MOORE: I qu~te understand that there arc faults on the srde of the employe~·s, but I understand also that thC're are restnc-, ti ons on cn1 players to a great ex bJnt, and that, if they were not •·O sc>vere, they would be more inclined to take a pprcntrces than they are at present.

The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC ~ORK~: A con­f<erenco was held in t.hc Arb1trahon Court t·l consider this que'<tion. and the rcpre~enta­tlYes of Clnplo:t ers, en1ployees, and the. f~ch­nical C'ollog~. approved of eYery prmcrple contained in this Bill.

Mr. MOORE: They may have approved of i~ but it does not follow that the members o~f this House should do w. vVe may want to widen the scope of the mc·'lsure so that greater opportunities will be given to boys to• become efficient trn dcsmcn ra.ther than be thrown on l he unskilled lctbour market.

Mr. KERR (Enoqgeru): The stateme_nt that hon. members on this side have not dr.s­played anY interest in the apprcntrccshrp question is untrue. I haYc grvcn a good de.al of attcr.tion to it, and I am ijlad that a Brll is to i>e brought m to deal wrth rt rn a way i;1 which it should have been handled m>;ny yeurs ago. I can say without Px~·,;g~'rab?n tlrat for man) vcars I have asked the Go­vernment to bring in a Bill whereby the YiC>YS of the Opposition could b<' embodred ia legislation, and before I sit dmvn I want to quote one or h:vo extracts to provo my contention. For msta.nce, the Opr">srllon have vear after year urged that hoys should be> en~bled to become apprentic0s v·hen they le!'\YL school at fourtncn years of ag-e JHstcad of having to wrcit until thc ,c re1ch ttJO ~ge of sixteen. vYe have hecn successful m havmg that a.nomalv r0n1ovod, ~o 11ut noYv et bo.>" c H.1 berorncv R..ppr('nticrd -..vhrn he leaves schooL Another point fer \l'hich we have· fought in this Chan:;ber e::gain::;t the conten-

Apprenticeship Bill. [6 AUGUST.) Weights and 11-Ieasures Bill. 141

tions of thP Minister was that a ooy ought not to have to pass a certain exan1ination before he could become apprenticed. If a bov wa.ntcd to become a moulder or a pa.ttern-makcr, t.he Government compelled him to pass a simple test in arithmetic, and, if he failed, he was disqualified for life from entering that trade.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC vYORKS: That is not correct.

Mr. KERR: During the ten years the Government have been. in poYver they haYo disqualified thousands of boys from filling jobs because they had not tackled this <lues· tion as it should have been tackled, and now they are bringing in this Bill at the last moment. There are some other points for attention in considering the Bill, particu· larly the necessity for allowing a boy to take a job when it is offer0d to him. Previously he had to wait his tm·n. a.nd man:· bo; s entered the wrong avenues of life because they happened to be on the list when a par­ticular job came along. These ar' examples of how the Government ha Ye tackled this ques· lion of national importance. and as a result of their attitude Queenoland to-day is over· stocked v·ith unskilled men, who jump from <llle construction work to another. whibt v-ery few men are skilled in the trades necessary h carry on the indmtries of the State.

:VIr. MAXWELL (1'o0.ronr1): I desire to take thi, opportunity of stre'5ing a point I rnado a fe\\,. ~~·ssions ago, that is, the desir­ableness of introducing a system of compul­wry apprenticeship. I realise that, if we go ,\long in our pres~'nt spasmodic \Yay, allo1-ving bov-s and vouths to follow tlwir own dPsir'~' in· connect.iun with earning their own liveli-

hood, then tho.t is going to lead Ll0.30 a.m.} u:, nowhere. I take it that it is

th~; intention of the Minister to 11Ia.ee the apprentiveshi11 scheme on a similar baElis to our prin1ar,y .Pduration, and that i..; to compel boys imd girls to apply t.lwm.selv-es to a certain thing for a certain period, thus qualifying them for the battle of life. The 2\Iinister says that the Government are showing sympathy towards the rising genera­tion, and I say, if it is nocessarc· for children to remain at school for a. certain time, how much n,m·e necc'ssary j, it that they should be compelled to learn 6ome trade or calling more fully to equip t.hem for the battlP of life' It that rs done, then the State will possess one of the firwst assets it has ever had. The Minister denied the otatement made by tho hon. member for Enoe~gera with rc~pect. to apprentices ha-ving to pas3 an education test, but the hon. gentleman knows full well that i\uch has been the ca,c. The bovs hav-e had to go to the Technical College "to st o.dy in order to pass certain examinations.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC \'VORKS : They may be required to do so yet. ,

Mr. MAXWELL: Speaking personally, members of Parliament have been very worried at the difficulties that confront mothers and fathers in their efforts to place their boy". in certaie1 occupations. I hold that it has been absolutelv impossible to find positions for them. I remember during the time that the present Premier occupied the position of Secretary for Public Works an idiotic proposal was made to the effect that a boy could not. enter the painting trade until he was seventeen years of age.

The SECRETARY FOR Pt:BLIO 'WoRKS: \'\'hen was that?

Mr. MAXIVELL: During the time that the present Premier occupiNl tho position of Secretary for Public \Yorks. l put the ease to him". and pointed out how difficult it would be. I received a great amount of holp from JV[r. Crampton, who v·a thur Director of Labour. and that propo,al wa.s eliminated from th~ proposed Bill. That juet shows what is likely to creep in i.f you allow indi­viduals who do not understand these things to deal with them. A bov must s<ene an apprentirc~hip OJ~ nt lea~·t f'p;e :vcar',_ to b~~-comt> a competent tradP'lllan. He n1ust sen-e that term in t.ho builclinll· trade.

Let mP refer a.gain to the education test. Kobody has a higher admiration of the boy who has received a first-cla~s cduC'ation than I have. I admit '"at the boy who has received a first-clae, education will be a. better tradesman, but look at the number of tradesrnt'll \Yho have C'omc fvon1 overscclS and who pmsec,s Yery little cduration.

Mr. KERR : The Secretary for Public Works did not haYe to pass a simple arith­metic test.

The SECRET.\RY FOR Pl'BLIC vYORKS: I pa,spd harder tests than are being stipulated for no\\.

1\Ir. l\IAXvYELL: 'l'he onlv yv-av in which tcJ soh·e the problem is to rnake •it compul­SOl',V for bovs to scrvf' a cprtain number of years at a calling. If it is right to compel bo,·s and g·irls to go to school until they attain the age of fourteen years, then how tnneh more necessary is it to equip them for the battle of life? I hope the Minister will bear that in mind, ,and will set ·up an apprenticeship scheme on a similar compu]. sory basi . .:::..

Question vut and vassed. The House resumed. The CHAIR}L\X reported that the Committee

had come to a resolutiou. The re',olution was agreed to.

FIRST READIKG.

The SECRETARY FOR P'CBLIC WORKS (Hon. \Y. Forgan Smith, Aiack <y) presented the Bill, and moyed-

" That the Bill be now read u frrst tin1c."

Qcw,;·ion put and passed. The second reading of the Bill was made

all Otckr c,f the Day for to-morrow.

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES BILL.

IxrTIATION rx CoM~II'J'TEE.

(Mr. Polloclc, Grcgory, in the chair.)' The SECREL\RY FOR PUBLIC WORKS

(Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Mackay): I beg to 1110Y8-

" That it is desirable that a Bill be introduced to consolidate and amend the la,Y relating to weights and measures."

The proposals under this Bill are to con· ·olidate the Yarious Acts that have been passed since 1912 dealing with thi' problem. It also lavs down definite fixed standards for 11eights and measures in accordancf' with the standards generally accepted throughout the British Empire and Australra generally. It also makes the important provision that inspectors of weights and measures will be clothed with powe.r to deal with those who sell goods not up to standard weights. An

lion. W. Forgl!ln Smith.]

112 Publw Curaror Act [ASSEl\1BLY.] Amen1ment Bill.

inspec:or under the present \Veights and l\leaeures Act had only power to test the scales and the instrurnents of measurement used by traders. A Yery roundabout method had to be adopted to secure the prosecution under the Criminal Code of anyone giYing· short weight either in coutainers or packets. As a matter of fact, thloV had to be prose­cuted for fraud. L:ndor 'this Bill, not only will the inepcctors be able to see to it that the instrurnents and mea:;;uros are in accOr·d­ance wid1 the Act, but they will bo clothed with suflicient power to test any article cxpo~cd for sale and to institute vrosecution in such cases where the goods are not up to the terms specified on their sale.

::\lr. KERR (Eno(J(J' m): \Ve might rf'cciye son1e inforrnatlon at this stage fron1 the :Nlini~ter in regard to t hr> dual control which exists in r('gard to \vcight:3 and n1oasurcs between the local authorities and the Health Departm- "'· \Vill he explain to the Com­rnit. ce wh0thcr anv pro' is ion i~ n1ade to do awa·.· with their dual control and establish a smgle authority? Th~ inspector of the local H!thority should be abolished, and the whole c·ontvol placed in thE hands of the Ylcalth Dqntrtn1ont.

The SESHET~~ RY FOR PlCBLIC \YOHKS (Hon. \Y. l<'organ Smith. 3/ur·:,,,,): I am pleased to give the hen. member that infor­mation. About a year ago an amendin:s Bill was pa~scd which nu1dc proYision for tho control and administration of the Act to be yosted wholl;, in the State. The State for a year ha· coutrollecl all the '·'eights and rneasure3 inspectors, and loc-' 1 au · hority inspectors ha' 0 been abolished.

l\lr. l(ERR: I wanted to kno\\ if you arc confirming that in this Bill.

Question put and pas"~ed.

The House resumed. The CI!AIID!A::-i reported that the Committee

had come to a resolution. The rc:-:olutiof! 'va" agreed to.

FIRST BEADIXG.

The SF:CRETo\RY FOR PGBLIC \\'OHKS (Hon. \V. Forgan Smith, J.fackay) presented tho Bill, and moved-

" That the Bill be now read a fir"t tin1e."

Question put und passed. The sccc-nd reading of the Bill was made

an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

PUBLIC CURATOR ACT A:MF:I\D::\IE.NT BILL.

IxrTrATio::-; rx Co}DI!TTEE.

(Jlr. l'ollock, Or~ gor!f, in the cha::r.)

Tllt' ATTORNEY-SE:"-rER:\.L (Hon. J. 1\!Iullan. l<Tndcrs): I beg to moye-

" That it is desirable that a Bill bJ introdttcod to amend the Public Curator Act of 1915 in certain particulars."

Before remarking upon the necc· ,jty of this B111, I 'vish to join rny collcagncs in con­gratnlating you, l\1r. Chairman, on your clPYation to the position of Chairman of Com­mittees-a position in which I feel sure vou will carry out the duties placed upon =.-ou fearlessly and impartially, and in a v av that will reflect credit upon you and the House.

The Bill which will bo founded on this .ro,olution i~ to amend the Public Curator

[Ilon. 1r. Foryan 8m.tli.

Act of 1915-an Act which ha·s been in opera­tion for ubout nine years. It is only natural that manv defects should be found in that Act. Th~ object of the prcoent Bill is to ovorcom,~ many difficulties with which th<l' Public Curator now has to contend in the administration of estates committed to his care. It will facilitate the procee-dings of the Public Curator, and will reduce the cost of the administration o.f P3tates. It is a Bill with which we shall be able to deal much better in Committee, clause by clause, after hon. men1bers have peru~cd it carcfull.,.,~. The principal feature which it is proposed to incorporate in the existing Act is the 1naking of a provision that the Public Curator­nlay sPcurc an order of the court to adn1in­i~tcr the £:'>ta: 3 of aged and infirn1 per,,ons

ho, say, frUin disease or some 1ncntal infirn1itv, or even from excessive addiction to drinl{, ar2 drs·iipating their estates.

J\lr. Krxo : A re those deceased per _ens' ceta tc- . .;?

'fhe _.._'tTTOR~EY-GE~EH.Al.: :--;o; during their lifetim('. Ca~r~ have C'Onl(' ~,,·ithi;1 the k1w·wJcdgc of hon. n1cn1bCt:-) \>:her~.: n rrutn oc a \YOlnan, fl5 the C<t~P rnay be, is mentally infirm, bordering. ,.,,y, on insanity, but -till ha>-ing control of his or her estate, and is dissipating the estate, and tho only "cty to obviate that is by having him or her ,,djudgcd imane. No person cares to go to the length of having a rPlative committed to the lunatic asvlnm in order that his or her estate may br:' safeguarded. This amend­ment. among3t others in the Public Curator Act, is de3igncd to overcome that dif!iculty. It is only within recent months that a case ccune before the courts of Queensland "~here the person was di>·sipating his estate and there was no power to control it, and it led to endless litigation after the death of one of the beneficiaries.

:Ylr. KELSO : Who will be the judge? The ),TTORJ'\EY-GENERAL: The court.

The Public Curator can only proceed on the representations of the relatives, and then the Public Curator will not be permitted to proceed until he receives an order of th& court: and hon. members will recognise that the comt will have to be well saticfied that the circumstances warrant it before it will give to the Public Curator power to admin­ister the estate of a living person.

:Yir. VowLES: The court has that power now.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Yes; but it would have to proceed in a very circuitous way to obtu.in it, and we want it done in a simple way. I do not think it nccossary to vo i11to the details of the measure. There are quite a numhc-r of amcndn1cnts proposed to Yarious sections of the Act.

~Ir. I(ELSO: It is a general revision.

The ATTORNEY-GENBR~-\L: It is a g ncr.d revisio·1 uf the Public Curator Act.

Mr. KIXG (Logrw): On the face of it, the Bill appears to be all right, but I particularly want to ask if it is the in ten' ion to include a pro't·ision in th3 Bill '.rhich \Yll1 giYe ~ nJoncpol_:, to the Public Curator in thc,>co matter-.. l ·~~-ant to see that cYery privi]"'gc that ih l'uhlic Curator g-eis is extended to rri\-ato trustee rompanics. \Ye know that in m.any c u pnvate tru~tec companies have bee!l. <ppointed the :ruardians of the estate' of in•:ano2 pcrson2, and if the J)ublic Curator· is going to be gi,·on grea~pr pov-;er than the­private trustee co1npanies pc::;sess, then I

PuNic Curator Act, Et~., Bill. [G AuGUST.] Address in Reply. 143

certainly shall be again't it. I do not see that the Public Curator should have a monopoly. If there is to be a general rc,·ision of the Act, I think that i:, a wise 1novc, bccausf' there arc certain things in the Act that do "ant revision. I can quite undc>nhncl that, after the Act has been in operati.on for nine years~ certain changes and alteratiOns must have comrnencled themselves to hon. member.:> as being absolutely necos­~ary.

The Attorney-General has said that the amendment will tend to reduce the cost of <H1rninistration. I hope jt will tend to lcs3en the cost of adminisnltion of the e-lates of do''cascd persons, as I mav tell the AttorneY­General that there is an;plo scope for such an alteration. I would jmt like to dravv the atte-ntion of the ~\ttorncY-General to one particular item. In the ,:aso of the Public Curator aclminigtering the estates of deceased persons, we generallv see at the heading of the account which he· renders to the bene­fteiaries, as the first item. "Yaluation Fee £3 3s." I say that that is a scandalous fe~ to charp;c any estate, c·.pccially a small C8ta te. I have had cases brought under n1, l'oticc by people who hav-e come to me. I lw,ye in rr1ind the case of a \Yidow who canlP to me who had a little houS·c property. I told her that the cost wou:d be about £25 for moneys out of pocket. I said, " I will do the work for you for nothing." She said she could net afford it~(laug·hter)~as she had not got the money. She wont awav, and so1ne timo afterwards can1e back, and said. "I hear the Public Curator does a lot of work for nothing." I said, " I do not know that he will de, it fm nothing, but certainlv he n1ay be able to ~;aye you eon1o official fee~~ that I might hav-e to pa-"·, such as stamp duties. m· something like that. She went to the Public Curator. She aftPnv-ards showed me a bill for £42, and the first rtom on it was £3 3s. for valuation fees. I could hav-e g-ot a competent valuer~ who was acceptable to the St.amp Office, to do the thing for £1 ls. Those are the sort of charges that should not be encouraged b:.- the department when they are holding out to the public that the work is done at the chcapc ·t po···ible rate and m many cases that no charo-e is mado at all. That is not doing the P~Iblic Cura­tor'c busines~ any good. 'rt is not doing the Government any good. It is just as well to face the. ~acts . and let the people know the true posibon, _mstead of misleading in little matters of this sort. It will cr·UtE' greater confidence in the institution which the Government have created. I, for one, want to sec the Public Cnrator's office flourishing and· of some use to the general community, and not hav·e It made a laughing stock of. \Ve hear many people say that it is no good going to the Public Curator, who savs he does the work for nothing, as it costs a" good dP1l more than they expected. and they never go there again. If this Bill is going to rernov·e anomalies and make alterations ;d1ic_h are going to benefit the general public, It w1ll be worth while passing it.

M'·· KELS"O (Tun,lah)' There is certainlv a necessity for a revision of the Public Curator Act. As the Minister s:tvs there is to be a general revision, I should ·like him to take into consideration the advisabilit" of seeing that whatever priYilegcs in connec'i;ion with the Act are given to the Public Curator should also be given to outside companie3. We hav-e trustee companies here which have

to make substantial deposits to the extent of £30,000. When they have paid those deposits the GovernmEmt must be satisfied with their bona fides. It was thought that, when the Public Curator's office came into operation, the trustee companie·' would wilt and die away. As a matter of fact, they have all flourished, especially one particular company ~I do not wish to advertise it~which has gone ahead by leaps and bounds. To give one example, in the case of small estates up to £400 the Public Curator, if he adminis­ters those estates, can get an order of the court without taking out probate. What I want to know is whether it is not possibl-e for a company, which is~ approved by the Governnwnt bv the fact that it has made a clepo,it, to en]oy the samo rights which the Public Curator exercises

An OP,'OSITIO).; :1IE1IBER : It is a monopoly.

:\Ir. KELSO: If the object of the Govern· mcnt is to make a monopoly of the Public Curator's businoss, I can understand it.

The ATTORXEV-GEXERAL: You know that it i~ not.

Mr. KELSO: I am glarl to hear it. I raisPd n. similar qnPstion on t.he Insurance Bill la,t n•ar, ami asked the :\linister whether it WH.9 iwt a fair 1hin'-~ to plare private in~uranf'P rom.panies on t 1w s·1n1e footing as tlw State lusurance Officr with regard to certain business. and the ]\finishr said that he was quite satisfted that outside companies RhoulJ have the san1c opportunity. I ask him to adopt the same fJrinciple in this Bill ··-not. t.hat I think that pri,·ato tmstc·o com­pani( s \Vi ]I get a gl'cat :nurnher of the csl ates I havo in mind, but th0ot I think that vdJatcyr•r privilege is givc·n to the Public Curator in gcn0ral work should also be PXt~'ndPd to them. Of course thcrr, are cer­tain thiug' ,., hich should h> done by the Public Curator in the intc•rests of the fJUblic rather than b,v an out-.,idc company, but, generally S]l<'aking. the same opportunities 'hould be extor.dod to both, seeing that the pl'ivate eon1f-'lny pays a d<'llosit nnd is rccog­niso·d to that extent bv th,, };I ate as fit to do bn~inc--s. --

Question put a.nd passed. The House rc,umed. The CH\TR1IA).; toportcd that the Committee

had come to a resolution. The resolution vcas agreed to.

FIRST UEADI).;G.

The ATTORNEY-GEJ\"ERAL (Hon. J. Mullan, l'lindr rs) presented the Bill, and moved~

" That the Bill be now read a first tin1e."

Question put and pa~sed. The second reading of tlw Bill was made

an Ordc1· of the Day for to-mon-o-.\".

ADDRESS IN REPLY. RES'CMPTION OF DeBATE~:\fR. l\TooRE's AMEND·

).IEXT. Question stated~

"'l'hat t.ho followin; Address be pre· seated to I he Governor in reply to the Speech deliv-ered by His l~xcellency in opening this, the Second Session of the 'l'wenty-third Parliament of Queens­land:~ "May it Ple,.so Your Excellency,~

".We. His Majesty's loyal and dutiful subJects, the members of the Legislative

Mr. Kelso.]

144 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Addnss in Reply.

Assembly of Queensland, in Parliament assembled, dmire to assunl Your Excel­lency of our continued loyalty and affBc­tion towards the Thrall€ and Peroon of Our Most Gra.cious Sovcr~ign, and to tender our thanks to Your Excellencv for the Speech with which vou h,;v,, 'been pleased to open the presct1t session.

"Tho various measur0.s to whirh Your Excellency has refmTI'd, and all otlwr matters that may be brought bdore ns, will receive our most careful considera­tion, and it shall be our earnest -;-•ndraY­our so to deal with them that our la.boHrs may tend to the achancement and pros­perity of the State'' (Mr. Hynes's rnotion)-

on which Mr. Moore had moVf•d the follow­ing amendment-

" That the Question be amended by the addition thereto of the following words : -'But we desire to inform Your Excel­lencv that the Government does not poc;­sess · !h" confidence of this House.' "

[11 a.m.]

Mr. COLLINS (Holl'en), who was received with general cheers and Opposition laughtPr, said: I desire to sav a ft:-i\ words Oh the Address in RBply. "

Mr. KE:RR: rrcn us S0l11~"'-thiug about the caucus meeting.

Mr. COLLINS: Fir't of aii, I wunt to congratulate the rnov·Pr and sc~concit'l' of the Address in Reply. Both thme W'BllcmPn arc \Yell acquainted \vith the r..._;q u1 !'l~rnent::; of North Queensland and Queensland in general I also want to congratulate tho Op:1ositio11 on having a.ppoint.ed one le.cdPr instead of having two leaders, a" th~v haYc had during past se.,sions of Parliarnent

Mr. COSTELLO: \\'hat about your (WO

leaders? (Opposition laughter.)

Mr. COLLI:'\S: Probabl·· it ill 11my be a real Jiye Oppo.sitiun.. and an Oppo~ition capable of criticising the CoYPl'TilllPnt. and criticising it in an int0lliM0nt n1anner: ~.vhich maY be for the bt·ttc·rrHC'!lt of the Stale. ThCre is one paragraph in the Covc•nwr's Speech to which I wibh to rder, · .. hid; reads-

" During the rocc·'Js rny ach·i;::.crs vyc·rc successful in arranging the convet·sion, upon satisfactory terms, of th•• loan whii'h matured on 1st Julv of this n ~r. Arrangements also ha,;c l.Jepn ma.cJ,; for the underwriting of loans in London to n1eet next year's rnaiui·itit~s. and io pro­vide ncvv n1onoy rcquir0d in the Stale to carry on the vublic ·works progratnine.~'

Whilst I hrtv€ to be true to the party and the movement with which I am as,ociated, I also ha vo to be truo to myse!J and a.ct in accordance "\vi th my convictions. expressed during the last session o; Parliament when speaking upon the loan proposrtls.

I am not hero this mornin,; to congratula!e t,ho Opposition 011 their attitude during the last session of Parlia1nent, because I ha vo no illusions nor yet delusions about tho money power. While the Opposition might haYc pretended-which in m) opinion they did­bt their speeches in trying as they thought to help the Government, I a.m satisfied from information which I have obtained since they dBlivored those speeches that the Opposition at that time were " in the know."

[.2!1r. Collins.

I am satisfied now t,hat the;; know the posi­tion in London better than the rank and file sitting on this side of the Houeo.

Mr. EDWARDS: The hon. nwmber ,hould withdraw that.

Mr. C'OLLI::\'S: It was nothing but cant and hypocrisy on their part to say they wBre going to assist the Premin- when he reached London. (Opposition di,ent.) I am one of those who know something about the money power, and, as I said a moment ago, I have no illusions or delusions in connection with the power of wealth. It is a thing that I have studied practically the whole of my life. I have Go delusions at all, because you will remember that, when we were debating the charo·e of bribcrv I referred to the wav in whic~. the workel:S were dealt with. and I quoted lvir. T. W. Law3on's work, entitled, "Frenzied Finance/' ·where in 1\iassaf'husetts, Unite·d States of America, the•y did not try !o bribe one member of Parliament, but they tried to bribe the whole of the members of Parliament. Knowing that, and having studied the money power for a number of years, I knew well the force·•· th:1t would be arrayed against this Govcrnme11t when tho Prc1nicr rcac.:1ed London. ThL• Pren1ier had declared hero at ParliarrH'llt Jiousc•, at a parlian1entary dinner given to hirn bofore he left for London, that thNc was to be no reeantation of Labour's policy. I lake it that 've either rnean things or 'VP do not mean them. If we do not mean tlwm. then we should at least hold our tongues. After that uttorcmcc· was ma.de. I think it was the present leader of the Oppn•ition, t.he hon. rnernber for Aubigny, who suggested a corn~ promise at that time. I am Bot eatisfied with the compromise that was ma.de in London. I do not agree with it. I think it '"ould have boon better for this State to haYt' rcta.irwd her full rights of splf-government rather thai1 grant a.n,Y conrp,,sion at all to the lnoncy po,vt1 l'S of Gn~at Britain. It would haYc been better for m to have paid a h1gher rate of intcrc~:-3t in NL'W York and rdainl'd full possessio11 of our s0lf-gc,vcrning right3. It is no use anyone arguing with me, lwcnusc thcv cannot co~1vincc n1<'" that no con­CPssion has .been grantl'd to the London finan­ciers or th0 pastorali·-ts of Queensland,

I am making my speech this morning real­ising that the future will jw,tify the rpmarks that were uttered by the hon. membn for South B:isban€ and the remarks I am utter­ing here this morning. \Y 0 are not here lcgi,laling for the moment. \V c arc here to prated the rights and privilc•gcs of the children yet unborn. \V, arc layi11g the foundation of a part of thib great Common­wealth, and rather than bow my knee to the powers of wealth I \\ould sooner the Premier had rdurned to this State and sent us to the country, if neces·,ary, and let the country speak and bay whether we were right or not. h the ,·car 1920 we did not hesitate to take that sta;1d, and why should we have he,itated in tho year 1924 ·r The world is moving rapidly in the direction of democracy. EYervonc- knows that. and wL~~t was con­siderCd right a fe,v years ago is considered wrong to-day. Realising· the power of money-a,nd I an1 speaking not onl:v to hon. members in this House but to the people who make it possibl€ for us to sit in this Parliament-I sa:.- that we •should make pro­gress within out· own ranks. We have got t·CJ do what we have done in the past. In

Address in Reply. [G AUGL'ST.]

b~0::onc da~::- the DlOYen1cnt n1ct with con­siderable obstacles. and was able to oYercomc all of those obstacles. In spite of the power of the Press a,nd in spite of the money power, we were able after a number of Years to reach the Treasury benches in 1915, · and we still remain on those Treasurv benches. ·what we haYe g·ot to do, and what the workers in our moYcmcnt have to do, is to organise to the best of our ability io fight this monev power and to overcome it. The present po~i­tion has bc<'n created and cannot now bo altered, but I deplore the position "·e find ourseh·es in. 'What we have got to do now is to organise, not only in t,his State but throughout the Commonwealth, to capture •the Federal Parliament. and. \\"hen we get there w1th a majority in. the Home of Rcprc­sentatiYEh3. and the Senate, \YC do nDt \Yant to be weak-kneed. I ha.ve said on more than onf' occasion that I was here to make historv-historv for the future as well as for the pl:Psent. \\"hen we get into power in the Federal arPna, we should not do the same as .:\1r. Fisher, the ex-Prime ::\iinister did­start a Con1rrwnwealth Bank in competition with other banks. I told him at the time tha,t lw was doing \n·ong. _U that time he had a big majority in both Houses of Par­liament. and he shank! have nationalised all banking. That is the way to 1nake history. " He vrho hesitates is lost." I an1 one of those who bdieve in this Australia of ours and this Commonwea.!th of ours making hi-ton-. I am one of those who want to see a Con~monwealth in reality as well as in name. It <:annot be hroU[~ht about b:;· being weak­kneed. ?\ot that I believe that the nationali­sntion of banking will solve all the problems tha.t we han' to face. It- \vill be onh- one step. and may not be a, von· big ste1;-not as big a st{'p as some of our people anticipate -but at any rate it is going in the direction of bringing about a better order of society than we have at the present time. \Ye must control the finances not onh- of this State, but of this Commonwealth. For vears I have preached, and I continue to preach, that all reform rosts upon finance. You cannot carry out any reform without being able to finance that reform.

Mr. KELSO: \'\hat did the Premier say yesterday?

:!\fr. COLLINS: I am one of those who believe that we can only go forward step by step towards the ideal. The ideal in this case is the objective of the Labour pa,rty as laid down in our programme. I want to say, as I have often said in this House, that we cannot right the wrongs of cen­turies in one session of Parliament-or in many sessions of Parliament. It is going to ta,ke a long time, and I hope to be able to prove before I sit down that we are endeavouring to the best of our ability to right some of those wrongs. It is a slow growth, but notwithstanding that slow growth there is no need to be disheartened. I am not one of those members of the party who think we should be disheartened by one £a,ilure, or half a, dozen failures, for I know that the whole of time is in front of us. \Vhat we have to do is to fight on and on towards that ideal. Remarks have been made about impracticable proposals; but what is practica,ble and what is impractic­able? As young men many of us started out advocating many reforms. \Ve were told then ,that they were impracticable. 'Ve were told that we were visionaries and dreamers,

1924-L

but owing to our advocacy, owing to our­com-incing not only the people, of Queens­land, bnt the peopl<• of the Commonwealth, rlwt the reforms we advocated were right, to-clav manv of those matters which were consi;lcn'd {mpracticablc ure on the statute­book of this State and of this great Com­n1on-..Yealth. \Ye .are not a. part:,~ of dreamers or visionarit>~. \Ye are a party of practical 1neu-n1en ·who arc ~triving to 11ut on the statute-book our programme, plank by plank.

~fr. :1IOORE: Dut you speak one \vay and Yote another.

:\Ir. C'OLLI:\S: That is not true. Some T2nu1rk~ have bc12n n1ad(• bv hon. members opposite about extrcmi;ts. "IYhere are the Pxtrelnists '? Are there any on this side of the House'?

()pposrnox ::VInrBERS : Y cs. :\Ir. KELso : The Premier said so yester­

day. :'llr. C'OLLI:\S: I say "::\'o." 'Ve have a

prog-ramme. and hanl pledged ourselves to cany out thrrt programme. I \\"ant to read the pledge, because the Premier signed the same pledge as the humblest man in this party.

Go\"ERX)JEXT .:\IEMBERS: Hear, hear!

:\Ir. COLLI::'\S: The pledge reads-,, I agree to advocate and support the

principles contained in the Queensland Labour Party's State and Municipal Plat­forms a,nd the Austmlian Labour Party's Platform. I also agree that, if not ~elected. I will not in any way oppose the candidature of the dulv s<>lected nominee. and. if selected, i will go through with the contest.

"' In the ennt of the question of the interpretation of any plank in the plat­form being in dispute, it shall be referred to the Queensland Central Executive, Australian Labour Partv. for decision, and that decision shall be final."

Vi" c all signerl the same pledge. \Ve all con­tested the election on the same pia tform. We arc all pledged to every pla,nk in that platform. I say therefore that, when hon. members on the opposite side of the House refer to some hon. members on this sidE> of the Home as extremists, I myself am not ashamed oi the word. It is the extremist of to-dav who is the moderate man to-morrow. I ha.;:e said on more than one occasion that to stand still means death either in an individual, a State, or a nation. The Lab­our party cannot IiYe on what it has done. It has to live on what it is going to do_ The world is moving on, and will continue to mov-e on in spite of the hon. members sitting opposite to me this morning. I wish now to come to the Labour party and its constitution. \Ve are not a rabble. We are an mg-anised disciplined body of men. All our ::y{inisters are el0cted under a system of exhaustiv-e ballot. There are ten men in the Cabinet and thirtv-three, men in the Govern­ment party outside the Cabinet. The ten men were created by the thirty-three, or rather by the majority of the party. Surely we who created them-that is the party­must be greater than the created.

Mr. MoORE: It does not look like it. Mr. VowLES: Why did you come to heel

then? Mr. COLLI"KS : We did not come to heeL

Surely hon. members do not dispute the statement that the creator, of necessity, is

Mr. CoUins.]

146 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

gr~atcr than the created! The party have their rights. That is, alterations can be made e\·en in the pre-Sessional programme which was submitted to us the other day. If we have not the power to make alterations, then democracv is onlv a sham so far as this party is concerned.

Mr. KERR: So it is. Mr. CosTELLO: It is only a sham. l\lr. COLLI:'\S: It is not a sham-we

-exercise that power. An OPPOSITION :'\fniBER : \Vhat alterations

are you going to make'?

Mr. COLLI~S: Those alterations will be made from time to time, and will continue to be made from time to time. If thev are not made, it is because it has been impos­-,ible to agree to any alteration.

I would now like to come to what occurred a few days ago.

0PPOSITIOY MniBERS : Hear, hear ! Mr. COLLINS: The matters discussed by

the party at its pre-Sessional meeting prin­-cipally revolved around the restoration of the basic wage and the institution of a 44-hour hour week. \\'as there an~·thing wrong in the party discussing that? It was not a split in the party, as hon. members opposite would like the world to believe.

0PPOSITrox MnrBERS: Ah! Mr. COLLINS: We are here to lav down

the methods to be adopted in connection with the Sessional prog:iunHue. Some of us­the majority by the way-thought that the 44-hour week should be included in the pro­gramme. \Ve also thought that the restora­tion of the basic wage should also be brought about, but the Cabinet thought otherwise.

Mr. KELSO: ·why didn't you form a new -Cabinet then?

Mr. MAXWELL: They did. 0PPOSIT!OX interjections. The SPEAKER : Order ! Order !

:\ir. COLLINS : That was the position of the party. As there has been a certain por­tion of what happened in Caucus revealed by the Premier, I am going to reveal the other portion of it. (Hear, hear!) It is quite true, as the Premier said, that he resigned. That is, his Cabinet resigned.

Mr. VowLES: And you were appointed leader.

Mr. COLLINS: The reason why they resigned was because they could not see their way clear to carry out the proposals of the party. It was quite within the constitu­tion of the party to agree to what they did. The party accepted their resignation.

0PPOSITIOX ME)IBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. COLLINS : The party then followed the usual procedure and set about electing new leaders. The first to be elected was a l-eade1·, and I had that honour conferred on rne.

0PPOSITIOX J\IDIBERS: Hear, hear! and laught~r.

Mr. COLLIKS : I did not seek the posi­tion, but having been connected with the Labour movement all my life, I accepted the position .as a cl uty after my colleagues had voted me into the position. Then the party set about electing a depnty leader, and my .old friend, the hon. member for Mikhell, was elected deputy leader.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

[Mr. Collins.

1\Ir. COLLI?\S: Hon. members know that the hon. member for Mitchell has devoted the whole of his life to the cause of the workers of this State. in order to bring about the betterment of their conditions. His hair has turned white in the fig·ht, and my hair is turning grey. \Ye have both given the best that is in us for the worker" of this great State of Queensland. After the leader and depl!t~· leader had heen elected, the party proceeded with the other ballots. but, owing to the fact that in the final ballot a majority of the Yotc.s that were cast were informal, an impossible situation was reache!i. Then a motion was moved th~tt the Cabinet should reconsider the position. The Cabinet left the caucus room for about half an hour. and on returning 1nade a certain proposition to the party.

Mr. CObTELLO: v\'hat was it? :\lr. COLLINS: That proposition was

accepted. That is, a compromise was arrived at and accepted bv the partv that the 44-hour week should be embodied in the programme. Regarding the basic wage, it was considered that the workep had the right to go to the Arbitration Court. They always had that right. Now the point I want to make is that we did not propose by legislation to restore the basic wage. Anyone knowing anything about the Arbitration Court is aware that the men could have applied for an amended award. and there would have been no need for the Government to go into the court to (mtcr any objection to the increase to £4 5s. per week.

A compromise was effected, and I want the people of Queensland to know that there is no split in this party--

GOVERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

2\lr. COLLINS: This party accepted the compromise, embodied it in our programme, and we are going on with that programme. \Yhen we meet our constituents we can feel assured that we- haYe looked at matters 'quare!:;· and fought a good fight. and can part, eyen though we may han' fought, as frit'nds without any disruption in the party.

0PPOSITIOX ME>IBERS: Oh! Oh! arcd laughter.

Mr. COLLINS: I know that hon. members opposite would like to see disruption in the party.

:\Ir. "',~OWLES: "'e have neYer had to get up to explain away what has happened, or reveal the secrets of our party.

Mr. COLLINS : Differences of opinion haYe existed in this party, and must exist in this party in connection with what legisla­tion should be placed on the statute-book. Our prograrrnne is a ycry extensiYc one, and nu one could imagine that we should be able to put the whole of our programme upon the ~tatute-book in one session or in n1any sessions. On this occasion a n1ajority of our members thought that certain things should be put into the programme. \Vhat is wrong with that. 9 The Cabinet thought otherwise, and then occurs what is called the "crisis." That crisis exists onlv in the minds of the pressmen of Queensland. (Opposition laughter.) I am not apologising for any­thing that the party did, because the party was quite within its rights.

Mr. KERR: I don't think you will ever rise again. You have lost your chance .

Mr. COLLINS: Never mind about that. I do not want to rise. Unlike the hon. mem·

Address in Reply. [6 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 147

ber "-ho inb,rjected, I belong to the "-orking­-class. I am of the working·-class, and I am willing to remain with the mass of the ueople who go to make up the nation. Coming lo the 44-hour week, I am one ut those who are prepared to defend that principle upon any platform in Queensland. This is an age Df machinery -the inventive age. This is an age \vhen the inventive faculties of n1an are being exercised to bring about cheaper production. ·what is the use of bringing about all this invention and n1achinPry if rnen arc to vvork as long hours now as they .did in years gone by? I '~.ay that this is a11 age of tuachiner,\, and to streng·then mv remarks I sav that machinerv alone shortens the hours of ·labour and capital lengthens and intensifies labour. Machinery alone is a victory Df man over nature, and capital is the enslavement of man to nature. JYiachinen- considered alone means increased wealth • and a resultant benefit. Capital makes the working men paupers.

Considering that this is the ag-e Df machi­nery, what is the use of saying that the hours Df labour should not be shmtened? The sam<' argunwnts that I have listened to dur­ing this debate "ere used long before I was born. Do hon. ILembcrs opposite know any­thing at all about the history of the fixing of hours of labour bv the different Parlia­ment~ of the race to ;vhich we belong?

Whenever I l.isten to the hon. memb<>r for Lockyer speaking in this House, I am .carried baek rig-ht to the middle ages. (Laughter_) I have fDund in my reading of htstory that England from 1350 to 1833 fixed the hours of labour-not the minimum but the maxiinu1n-and \vhen I am listening to the hon_ member for Lockver I think he would have liked to live in. those goDd Dld davs. In the vear 1350 the fixed hours of. labour were from 5.30 a. m. to 8.30 p.m .. and I think that would haYc just suited my hon. friend opposite. In Dther words. th<' great British people fixed the hours of labour at fifteen per day. It was

-Dnly after 1833 that thE're was an attempt made to shorten the working hours-first to tweh-e hours. and then to ten hours. Coming to our C'Dmmonwealth. we find that the stonenla"'ons. according to " l(nibbs," agreed in Melbourne to form a union in 185L :-Jot manv hon_ members in this HDuse were born at that time. Those stonemasons were the firet bodv in this Commonweal.th to trouble about the ei'<ht-hour day system, and more honour to them. In this State the stone­nlnsons in 1866-fift~v-seYen yoars ago-were celebrating their eight-hour festival.

Hon . • T. G. APPEL: And who >vas resron­sible fm that"

0PPOSTTIO:>: MDIBERS: The Xationalict Go­Yrrnment.

Mr. COLLI:'\S : I suppose the stonemason,_ Xow, aft0r fifty-seyen years, "\VC arc- facing +he qu0stion of whether the hours of labour shall he reduced bv four hours a week. Pic­ture the conditions that existed fifh--seven years ago in connertion 'vith our fllrn1ing life. factor:-' life, and city life. The positiDn then was that we had verv little machinerY. Doe·> am·one for a moment think that t:he ·world is 'going to stand still in regard to the shortening of the hours of la-bour? WhE'n we aw li.-ing in an age that has br<Jught about wireless telephDny" wireless telegraphy, submarines, and othf'r machines, when we

go upon our farn1s and sec Fordson tractors or other tractors operating, is it possible to 'tand still in this matter? \Yhat is the use of all this machinery. originated to lighten the work of the labourer? What I am af'tonished at is that. considering the age in \vhich \YC are liYing, anyone should oppose a 44-hour week.

The argurncnt about ron1pctition carries no weight at all with me, boeause the same argument V;'as used in the British House of Commons on the fixing of the ten-hour day_ It was then stated that Great Britain would not be able to compete with the other coun­tries of the world which had long hours. We do not want to be conc0itcd and think that we are the only pebble on the beach. and that >Yo in Queensland and Australia are the only people moving ahead. Other countries of the world are moving also and advocating the views ad.-ocated b~, me--

:Mr. VowLES: Yes, in Russia.

Mr. COLLI::\'S : For short<>r hours of la oour and better conditions all round.

In connection with the movement outside, I sav again that I am not going to con­dem;, men who mav differ from me. I am not going to say that I am right and they are wrDng. I always remember my own experience, and the hon. member for Mitchell can bear me out with his own cxperiencf'. W c were hounded from pillar to post becausP of the views we expressed at that time. For all I know, the men who are now referred to as extremists may be considered moderates thirty or fDrty years hence. ·what I am concerned about is the solidarity of our movement. The people who

created the platform under [11.30 a.m.] w.hich we are working were the

organised workers of Queens­land, and that platform represents the C<Jl­lective wisdom of the organised workers of this State, and they have sent us to Pm·lia­mcnt to endeavour to carry out that plat­form. I claim that we are endeavouring to carry it out to the best of Dur ability, and there is no need for us to be alarmed and get panic-stricken Dr stampeded-as the Premier said the othPr day_ ·Of course. 1 use the term in a differe-nt sense to the Premier. There is no need for us to get stampeded by articles appearing in the columns of the " Courier" such as the one published this morning referring to some people as "wild men." (Opposition laugh­ter_) \Vc are quite usf'd to such articles. WP Jiyed all that dmnt, and we shall live it down in the future the same as we have livE'd it down in the past. There is no need to be stamped<>d because the " Dailv Mail" or the " Courier" writes leading· V articles against this party. If this party had taken notice of those two journals in the past, we would neYcr ha.Yc occupied the position we occupy to-day.

In conclusion. I have -endeavoured to be as calm and dispassionate rrs possible in placing my views before this House_ I have stated the case from m:v point of view and from the point of view of many others in this -party. vVe are not out to disrupt the party: we are out to exercise the rights and priYileges which have been conferred upon us. first of all by having been s<'lected in the plebiscite as representatives of the Labour ,ino\~ement, and, secondly, in having been returned to this House as representatives Df the people, and we ate here to do the best,

Mr. OolUns.] '

148 Address in Reply. [ASSElVIBLY.] Adlress in Reply.

according to our ability. to protect the rights of the ]l('{)ple who s?nt us here.

Mr. PETER SO:\ (Tornwnby): \Ye have listened to sorne vcr:v intere~tillg speeches both Yesterday and to-daY giYing the diver­gent \-ie\Ys of hon. memb-ers opposite.

I intend to deal with their statements a little later, bm before doing so I wish to say that it is my painful duty at this junc­ture to ha,-c to record that the death of Ylr. Arthur Temple Clerk took place at t.lw Ipswich Hospital this morning. I would not tak,, up the tim-r of Parliament in refer­ring to the death of any indiYidual were it not that the dc'ccased gentleman has playf.>d such an important part in the destinies of this State. It has been through his efforts that the elimination of the scourge of prickly­pear is pradically upon the horizon, and, when I think of his unselfishness in the matter of time and money that he put into the proposition allll of the icy support that he l'C'CeiYud from the authoritic•s. I think the time will con1c. whl'n \Ye politician~ haYc passed Dut and ·~yhen .:\linisters Lavc !)asf'ed out and arc forgotten, that a rnonument will be raised to the nwmor:; of the ]at.· 2\lr. Temple Clurk for thu great good that he has oon­fcrrcd on Queensland. If e.-er I should be a'kcd what type of man I should like to follow in m.v life, I would point my finger at the life of tlw late :\fr. Arthur Temple Clerk. lwcauso I know of no man who lived a n1orc trulv Christian lift~ m· '"ho sho,ved a more h·,;l:· Christian ,pirit than that dec0ascd gentlcn1an. ::.Vlany a poor n1other will miS' thu gentle touch and the assistance given bs tl1is n1an unknown to n1ost. It is because of these good qualities and because of the grear ?;ood he has done to this State that I take the opportunity of placing these few- words of appreciation in " Hansard." I de·cp]y deplore his loss, and I am sure those of '" who know him most intimately will deplore his loss as deeply as I do.

1-Io~Ol'R.\BLE l\ID!BE~S: Hcer, hea.r!

2\Ir. PETERSON: I ha Ye listened to some splendid speeches during the last few days, and I listened with a great deal of interest to the speech deliYE'red by the Premier yest-erday morning. There is no question that the hon. gentleman was perfectly frank in his statement, and "<l far as the public is concerned, it cannot be said that he has failed to stand up to the obligations that rest upon him as Pr-emier of this State. I also listened with a great deal of interest to the speech delivered by the hon. member for South Brisbane, and judging by his remarks, onp could easilv see that there was a rift within the lute with rcga.rd to the finan­cial negotiations of the Premier on the other side of the world. If W<' look carefully into those statements. it will be admitted that the Premier must have given some concessions to the pastoralists. I haye it on first-hand eYidence that, when the hon. gentleman approached the Stock Exchange in England, the brokers there told him that before he could do a.nv business with them he would haye to compose his differences with the pastoralists. The whole trouble started because. when the hon. gentleman reached Fremantle on his return, he issued a state­ment that there had been no back-down, and no concessions in any shape or _form given to thE' pastoralists. Now we find, Judg­ing from the remarks of the hon. member for South Brisbane that certain concessions were made. I am 'not condemning the Pre--

[Mr. Colllins.

mier f01· making those concessions. and I quite agree with him that there are periods in the history of statesmanship, and in the historv of Premierships, whPn silence is goldei;. As the hon. gentleman pointed out ~·esterday it is not always wise or expedient to place· ~11 the cards on the table without knowing what the ultimate result may be. But it is a new thing for the hon. gentleman to a~h-ocatE' secret diplomacy. For years past hon. members opposite boldly denounced secret diplomacy in every possi~le term, ~nd whilst I approve of the Premier followmg serret diplomacy in connection with this matter I cannot see how he can reconmle hi pr'esent position to his past attitude thf'reon.

The hon. gentleman very cart'fully gave us an exposition of what led up to the alleged rupture "·ithin his own party. \Vhat has cm sed the rupture-if there be a rupture? Th~ trouble has been broug-ht about by the fact that Labour Governments oYer and oyer­again haYe told the workers that if they were Teturned to power, they would sec that the conditions of the workers were bettered. That \Yas a right position to take up. ThE>y told the workers time and time again that theY· stood for the principle of reducing hmlrs. and also for the principle of increasing wage~. The fact remains that the rank and file outside are only asking the hon. gentle­man to honour the promissory note that he signed. and I say with all sincerity that I cannot for the life of me understand how any GoYernmPnt could oppose the workers on a. lower scale being brought up to the £4 Ss. per week le Ye!. I say to the hon. member for Bowen. or anv pther hon. members opposite, that if thev ·are game to moYe a motion seeking pailiamentary sanction for a. 5 per­cent. increase, I will support them.

::\Ir. BEDFORD : If you support anything from this side, that will be the end of us.·

Mr. PETER SON: It will be the end of the hon. member and the " ant hill " end of :Haunt Isa, too.

::>fr. BEDFORD: \Ye do not want traitors. :Yir. PETERSON: That is false. (Inter­

ruption.) I cannot show my sincerity in any greater degree than that. We might well ask, will hon. members opposite be strong enousrh to compel their Government to restore the 5 per cent. reduction, and bring the­public servants up to the ]eye] they were on previously?

Mr. BEDFORD: You got a bribe of £2.000.

Mr. PETERSON: That is an absolute lie. Mr. BEDFORD: It is true. Mr. PETERSON: You won't say it

outside. ::\1r. BEDFORD : I will. The SPEAKER : Order t I '"ill point out

to the hon. member for Normanby that the term '' lie " is unparliamentary, and I would ask the hon. member for Wan·ego to cease­interrupting.

:Y1r. PETERS02\J: I do not desire to cause you any trouble, Mr. Speaker, because _you are always good to me when I am speakmg, and I want to keep in order. I was refer­ring to the agitation from one clnd of Queensland to th£' other that the 5 per cent. reduction shoul.d be restored at the ear!tcst possible :moment. I quite _understand that the Premier and Treasurer IS gomg to have a Yery difficult time if he ooncedes the demands that have been ma.de upon him,

Addre8s in Reply.

-Lc•c·lllN! the hon. gentleman will not Le al>Ie t(J :-qean· his i:nances. Accordinn· to the ·fl!!;lll'"' that han' been furnished" to this Chambct'. wc find that we have 36,068 State <employee> at tlw present time. and their annual salaries amount to £8.411.000. Added to that the annual interest bill_:_the fwm·0s \Yi11 b(' greater this Year-amount; to £3.589.000, so that a total of over £11,000,000 from the Comolidated Revenue is required

·to pay the State employees their wages and salarie3 and to meet the interest on the natiomd debt. Seeing· this will absorb prac­tically the \\-bole of the Consolidated Reve­nue. I ean quite under,stand the difficultv the Pre1nit:r finds in regard to financino:· the reqnP"t~: of the n11ions in various ]Ja~ts of the State. This is the position I tako up. Snppo~~ng· any hon. lllGillber takes a contract for a large work, nnd through carolcs~ncss­attendnlg the· raees PYCI'\ day, drinking-, and {'Hrrying on-the job ends in a loss. Is it fair for that man to turn round and blamP his C'mplovees. and SHY thE'v will han• to bear -the bnrde:n of the loss? r't is the sanw with thP su,tc. If the functions of Government -have not been E'ntercd on in a true business 1>pirit. the f'nd must come: and the trouble nm,- is that the end has come. and thP workNs a r0 being ea ll0d upon to pay thP piper. I-lo,vcYf'r. if the hon. Q,'('ntlernail can il: the earlv futurp ece his \vav ckar to restore th0sp rcduo£ions. I intend' to honour n1:· promi~e in rDnncction with the n1atter.

The Sccretarv for Agriculture. whon Epeaking tht' other eYening in r0ply to the <Cemme remark>< of th0 leader of the Oppo­Rition. made reference to the fact that while his part~- have been in power there has been increasNl production. I take it th'tt anY <:ountr:v \Vmlld be very poor indeed if it could not show something in the wav of incrcn~Pcl productir)n. It is not so n1u;'h a qu0stioll of \vhat our increased production is. lmt \vhat is the m·iro the producer is l'C'C0iYing for thai which he procluecs. I ·hayp iaken the trouble to look up the figures. aud I fmd that, despite the ~rood work that ma:· haYe been accomplished b:v the Council '()I Ae:ricnlture. th0 price received for dairy prodnch has been lees in Queensland for the whole period of the oncration of the Council ihnn in Xe'" South \Vales. where there is no Coundl of Agriculture or Ministerial inter­fercnf'e. Tnke dairy produce, for instance. In S,vdne,-. for the whole of the period undet· rPYie\Y, the dairyman has been reC'eiving a ·gTeater m·ice for his butter than the price vaid in Queensland with all the Government 'Control.

Take the Egg Pool. The Government. no ·doubt \vith good intentions. in order to pro­tect 'he poultry people. and with their assist­ance. formed an Egg Pool. What has been the result of the Eg·g Pool.? Ever sinro the Queenslaml Pool came into existence th0 !\'ew South \Valcq poultry rai.sers have been rC'{'f'iYing n larger price for their eu;gs than Queensland producers have received.

An 0PPOSITIOX ME"l:BER : They have a voluntar,,- pool. '

}[r. l'ETERSOX: Yes. If it wcr0 not for ilw fad that the Queensland Egg Pool has been dumping eggs into Xow South \Vales. the poultry raisers in that State would have hcen gf'tting bigger prices for their produce. v.~ha t is the use of talking a bout increased production when the producers arc not get­ting the full results of their industry? It is all very well to prate about one class receh·-

Address in Reply. 149

in'? full n·sult.' for it. imlustrY. but tho prunar.v proJU('L'r i:: f'ntitlccl to rCcQive sotne protection frol!l the GoYCl'HHlC'l1t of Queens­laud.

I wish to rcft•r now to the subject _of ratcon cotton. The Opposition tried last sef::-;ion to inchu•0 thp Uovprnn1ent. through the SecretarY for ..:-\griculturc. to nccppt an amenclm<'nt \vlwrebv ratoon cotton \vould be perrnittC't1 1o bi~ g1:own, and asked t_he Go­vcennlL'nt to do ::-on1ething to assist the growers of that t'ltton. eYen to the extent of marketing th<' cotton. It \nll be remem­bered how th<' l\linister derided and ridiculed us and told us that ratoon cotton \Vas not legal tc•ncler, allCl how it would ruin the fair name of I_JuePnsland if the an1endn1cnt were accept rd. \Y 0 proved conclusively-and the lerrislation pa3:-::ed haB proved OHl' contention -~hat. so far as the ma,jority of the cotton planter~ are concerned. they f'annot gro\V plant. cotton successfully. \Ye have proved up to the hilt. however. that they can grow ratoon eoUOlL and we have proved through :Mr. Danit•i Jone' that we can sell ratoon cotton at a paYable price on the other side of the world. ·If the Premier had been here at the tirnp-he ·was a1vav on in1portant business-he would ha,-e seL'~t the wisdom of aurccin{)" to the request made at that time h~ the "central Distrid Council of Agricul­tl;re and bY members of the Opposition, and would not 'have treated the Bill as a party mc•asurc·. \Y L' have not only the indus· triali~ts to eater for. \Ve as a Parliament have also to considc>r the position of those who <>Tow thes<' products. The result of the ratoo;;_ cotton kgislation was that any num­ber of gTower~. in order to obc~v the la\Y and Jw lawful ancl Jl''acpfnl citizens. uprootPcl their ra.tuon cotton. and their YC'ars' earnings \vents to the winds. There" were quite a number "·ho clisobeved the law. and decided that t-hev would not. under any condition puli out thf'~l' ratoon cotton. I' ::.un not going to cmnplain of the GoYernnlPnt giYing \vay on the matter. because I rejoice that they haYe 'een Jlt to remove the ban. for some time. at anv rate; but this is what I com­plain about-and I am sure the Lahour Government will admit that it is a fair request: The nwn who obeyed the law and pulled out their ratoon cotton are to rPceiye no con1pcnsation for obeying· the law; but those who allowed their ratoon cotton to grow haYe been compensated to the extent that the Goyernment are purchas­ing their crop at a reduced rate. One can understand the position which arises in a cotton district whore one section arc penalised for obeying the law, and tho other sect,io;l for disobeying the law reap a benefit. 'lh1s has been the outcome of tho hon. gentle­man's policv. I should be plea.scd to aceom~ pany hin1 ~t any tirnc through n1y distric~ to show him the large number of cases o,. financial disaster which have occurred as the result of that Dolicv. :Vlany of the settlers in mv district ,;ootecl out thPir ratoon cotton. One 'man had 50 acres, another 25 acres, another 16 acres. and so on. Not only was this ratoon cotton rooted out, not only did it ruin the settlers concerned and rob them of their wages and monev for the whole twelve month··, but it robbed the State of Queensland of a large amount of intrinsic wealth because tlw cotton had to be destroyed. I appeal to the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government, even at this late hour. to make some announcement as to the posi­tion of the Government in regard to those

Mr. Peterson.]

150 Acidre88 ·m Repty. LASSEl\IBLY.~ Address in Reply.

settlers who obc>~ed the law. \Ve have to take into consi<lcration what the outcome of such a decision may be, because it will be a premium to others to break the law in future \vhc>n Acts of Parliament are passed if the Government are prepared to turn round and give conce•sions to one who breaks the law and nothing whatever to others who have obeved the law. Surelv it does not need anv· argument to stress· the fact that men who obey the law are entitled to com­p<?nsati<Jn. If they are not entitled to com­pensation for that which they have lost, who is entitled to compensation? I know it y,·ill be a difficult matter for the Govern­ment to assess the compensation to be paid; but a principle is involved, and it is up to the Government to get out of the difficulty at the earliest possible moment. ·with regard to the ratoon cotton que,.tion generally, I appr0ciate the action of the Premier and his party in removing the ban on ratoon cotton. but I did not like the remark of the Secretary for Agriculture the other night when he practically hmtocl that there may be something in the way of legislation to deal with that later on. I think \Ye should give ratoon cotton a fair. square. and honest go. JVIr. Danic•l Jones has alreadv shown that in England ratoon cotton is a legal tender and that it can lw converted into cash, which is so bad!~· neech>d in Queensland. If the Go­vernment are wise, seeing that Mr. J ones's n1ission has be(~n so successful, it will be a good plan if they \vill cable over to that gentleman a couple of hundr('d pounds to enable him further to exploit his succcs-,ful rnission. Tho GoYC>rnn1ent neYt~r ga.Yc one farthing tmYards :\Ir. J ones's mission on tho other side of the world.

An OPPOSITION :\1E1IBER: They did not want him to be successful.

Mr. PETERSOX: Now a' to the cotton posihon. I an1 not going to impute any­thing. Seeing that :\1r. Jonos has proved !he case for ratoon cotton, it \vill be a good plan to allow him to go to other parts of the world \Yher · agricultural exports han1 not been yet. The larger the market \Ye can g·ct fot· ratoon cotton the better it IYill be for Qm'·ensland, becau'e from the point of Yic\v of combating insect pests ratoon cotton is the best for the simple reason that the s('asons of Queensland are favourable. No qu<>stion \Yhat<'ver of black labour conditions can enter into the consideration of the matter at all, became, if the price of plant cotton is fixed at 6cl. per lb. the grower of ratoon cot ton <'all still n1ake more out of his crop at 4d., lwcausc he gets three times as much to tho acre as the gTower of plant cotton. I hope that the .hon. gentleman will do his utmost to giYe ratoon cotton a fair and clear ·• go," a11d rendC'r an;..~ assistance he can to the farmers who arc prepared to assist them­~clv'f'S in n1ark0ting- the crop. Ho is no", free from anv liability under the guarantee. We may well ask that bygones lw bygones. Mis­takes ha ye been made-we all make mistak<es -but we ar0 !'lad at what he has done, and if he will rontinuo in that spirit, hP will hPlp to build up one of the gr-eatest indus­tries l'Yer kno" n in Qupcnsland. I commend to him also the desirableness of giYing every po~siblc a£si:-tanr0 to rh~ growers-not pro­Yoking them, but going hand-in-hand with thPm in th0 making of Queensland the grea tP~t cotton growing country in the southern homisphere.

OPPOSITION :MEMBERS: Hear, hL>ar t [Mr. Peterson.

Mr. PETERSOK: Before leaving the­cotton industry, let me say that I fully appreciate the value of the agitation which is going on in the Central district for the ownership of ginneries by the farmers. That aim is quite in consonance with Government policv-that the farmers should own the mca1is of marketing their produce: and I hope therefore that the Gm·ernment will render them every assistance which can be afforded under the present Act to effect their desires. I understand. of course, that thE' Minister is tied up till 1926 by the agree­ment with the British Australian Cotton Association, but according to the adYice we· haYe from the Central district, there is in the present Act a loophole through which he can gi\'e those concerned the opportunity_ to gin their own cotton. I feel sure that if the Minister will giYe to the cotton pro­ducer as to ew•ry other primary producer the management of the marketing of his produce, he will make a better " do" of it than the Go\'ermnent possibly can.

\Ve haye notic-ed in the Press a statement· that the GoYernment have increased rail­\Yay fares and freights from the 1st instant. The increase in fares amounts to 7~ per cent. Sp-eaking as a member for a country district, I am sorry that the GoYernment in making the increases thought fit to make them higher in country districts than in the metropolitan area. I do not wish to antagonise metropoli­tan n1e1nbers in any vi/ay. I n1erely say that we should be on all-fours with them; in other words, there should be no greater increase on the railwavs in countrv districts than on cit:>' railways.· To show h'ow unjust the Governm('nt have been, however, and' to indic·ato how they are further penalising the people living on the land, I am going· to quote from a table comparing the in­creases in fares in two cas·es in the country •vith the increases over similar distances in the city. I find, for instance, that the fare from Rockhampton to Gracemero, a distance of 6 miles, was Sd. s-econd-class single, and ls. 2d. second-class return. The fare from RDckhampton to Kabra. a distance of 10 miles. \Yas 2s. second-class return. Of course, all those fares have been increased by 7~ per cent. Xow take the fares in the metro­politan area. From Brisbane to Graceville, also a distance of 6 miles, the second-class single fare was Se!. and the second-class return fare Sd. Those fares also have been increased by n per cent. Can the hon. the Premier say that a 7~ per cent. increase all round is fair, s'eeing that a n per cent. in­crease on ls. 2d. is much gTeater than a 7 ~ per cent. increase on Sd.?

The PRE1IIER: The differentiation Wa<! made in the time of the Donham Admin­istration.

M1·_ PETER SO:\': I will take the hon. g·ontlcn1an's 'vor.d for it, but it is Db\~ious that a 7~ JWr cent. increase will be more in the Central. district than a 7~ per cent. increase in the city._ Then compare the fares from Rockhampton to Kabra with the fares from Brisbane to Darra, both distances of 10 miles. The fare from Brisbane to Darra was lOd. second-class singlf'. and ls. 5d. ~L·cond-class return. Again, 7·~ per cent. on ls. 5d. is not as much as 7~ per cont. on the 2s. faro £rom R,ockhampton to Kabra. and the result is that a further penalty is imposed upon the people of Central Queens­land and other countrv districts. I think I ha vc only to point this out to the Minister

Address in Reply. [6 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. !51.

concerned to make him see the unfairness of the percentage increase. \Ve recognise that under the pl'esent conditions something has to be done to secure extra revenue, but the fact remains that countr) ·districts are pay­ing three times the fares over short distances that the me-tropolitan area is paying. Con­sequently, if any ir,crease is to be made. the leveiling up should. take place do,vn here, "·here the population is. and then we in the ccuntry districts would take no exception wha tcYer to the GoY0rnn1ent increasing fares undN abnormal conditions.

There are manv reasons whv the present financial position' is stagnant,' and one of the main rc•a ... ons is that high taxatkm has nDt. onlv helped to bring about unemployment and stifle industry, but has also created a di~inf'lination to inYcst in llC\Y industries in Queensland. \C\'e have only to look at the official recmds of the Supreme Court to ascer­tain that fact. although it mav be true that rtuitc a number of new co1np'anies en1erged from proprietary concerns. It is true~ too, j hat we sec building-s going up all along­Queen street, but that to my mind does not indicate the progress of Queensland at all. As pointed out by the hon. member for Enoggcra. thos0 l1ig buildings are rncrel~v the rcpositori0s of Yast ntnnbcrs of repre­ecntati,·rs of ~oujhern firms who have their ag-ents throughout Queensland getting orders to fPed the manufarturing· concerns in the South. \Yhat 1 am concerned about is that prartically speaking there has been no in.crrnse in the nunlbPr of factories in Q.ucrnsland during the last ten years; and that fact in it~ turn has its effect on the fil;dnc0~ of Qnprnsland. I snggc•st that ,,-e chouJ.r( adont the nwthocl of Calgar:v, in the pro,-ince of Alberta. in Canada. in order to build U}J ouJ~ manufacturing inclu~tries. The follmviug t>lhlc gives an indication of the growth of that city over a period of about two years:~

"Population-1909 1912

Bank Clearings~

1909 1911

Tiuil<ling Pernlits-1909 1911

Prc:-cnt ~.\.ssc,;;;snlf'nt

Tax Rate

29.098 61.340

Dollar·•

98.954,389 218.681.921

2.420.·150 12.907.638

112. 000. 000 12.000.000"

In order to incluc0 capital to innst. there and increas0 jhc population and tinrl 'York for the workers. they are doing what we ,r.:.;hou1d haY(' done years ago in QuePnsland­that is to say, enronraging those who are prepare-d to inY('st in industrie~. This is what they do there-

.. \Vhen you sj art your industry iu CaJgary you find nothing unprepared, no faC'ilih nnfini>he<.l. You "·ill be fur­nishocf with a site which was purchased and rescrycd ~mne tin1e ago. and tvill cost yDn what it did then. Your water, light, and power will be supplied imme­diately and at exact cost-the cheapec-.t po'\ver, \vhether coal, natural gas, or elec­tricity, is here. If you em1;lDy twenty-

.fiyf\ n1cn or oYer ·you 11ay no taxes until 1918."

Of cour~e. that \Yas t'.OnH' year~ ago. but it. indicate-. that a period of exemption from taxes is given to everybody prepared to invest money in the proyince of Alberta, and to help to build it up. \Vhilst I believe that taxation is necessary in order to carry on. the Government, there comes a time when industry is lar,guishing-, when we have to look things squarely in the face, and advo­cate' sor_ne scheme which will induce people with capital to come here and settle down. \Ye should attract capital here by rendering assistance in the shape of g-etting cheap sites,

in the shape of getting the [12 noon] cheap8st possible power, and

render assistance to those con­corned by not having the income tax hawk , .. itting· on their doorstep immediately they start. They would then have an opportunity of getting on their feet. and when they get ou their fed, then let the income tax or any other form of equitable taxation operate. By that policy you will encourage men to come here. and by those means open up an avenue of employment for many of the unemployed who arc trayelling over this State at the present time.

I wish to say son1ething in connection '\vith the unemployed. I notice ·that a Minister in :'\cw South \Vales-;\;lr. Oakes-made a statenwnt, and so far it has not been denied by thG Queensland Government. to the effect that the Queensland Gm·crnment issues passes. to the unemployed. enabling them to journey to Sydney to g·pt on tho unen1ployed 1narket dmn1 there. \Yh<'n I was in Sydney the oth<'r dav, 2\Ir. Oakes presented a document to Parliament purporting to be an official permit to some nne1nployed rnan enabling him to get dmvn to Sydney from Queensland. I hope that is not the case, and I am expect­ing- that the :\Iinister "ill be in a. position to~ denv that there has fallen upon the Queensiand Govermnf'nt the necessity for deporting its unemploved. to ;\Jew South \\"ales. The J:\ew South \Vales Gm·ernment haY(' as hard a ro"~ to hoe as any other· GOYC'Tllll1Cllt.

2.\Ir. \\'RIGHT: Thev have a lot more unem­plo,·ed than wo havC:.

::\Ir. PETERSO:I:\: I must differ with the hon. o·entlcman. There has been a census of th~ unemployed taken in =":"· South \Yales. and it is found that such 1s not the ease.

l wish to make some referenc0 to the police requr•st for increases in salary. Hon. nwmbPl'S have been inundated with cor­rP~pondcncP and circulars from differ~nt union:-; with rerrard to the wages and salarieS paid, and a,;~ngst other things we have n•cciYNl a statement from the Queensland Police ·cnion complaining that the Gm·ern­Inent arc aY.erse to increasing thP salaries of rhc police to the same amounts as are paid bv the K0w South \Vales GoYernment. If thorp is any bad,, of public servants who shoulcl be adequately compensated, _S<'Cl?g· that so much depends upon them in mamtam­ino· law and order, under most .disadyan­tageous circumstances at times, it is th~ police· I certainlv think that if the Go.-ern­ment. can sc·e fheir wav dear to moot demands of this nature, they should grant the requests made bv the police. One Minis­ter, in reply to the Police Union, stated that

Mr. Peterson.]

152 · Addrns in Reply. [ASSE:~IBLY.] Address in Reply.

the GoYcrnn1ent w-ere paying just as n1uch in Queensland as wa,; being paid in New South \\" alf's, aftPr taking into consideration the cost of living. In looking at the tables, I ·find that in Xew South Wales a constable of the first year is paid 14s. 7d. per day, and in Queensland he is paid 13s. S.d. per day, a.nd that disparit,- exists throughout the whole table of salaries. I think it was the Secretary for Public \Y arks who stated that, after taking into consideration tho differences between the cost of liYiug in Qneensland and New South \Yalcs. it \Yould be found that the police \YNC better paid hC're than in Kcw South \Yalcs. I dispute that statement. I have here a price• list from one of the biggest grocery distrib.uting firms in New South \\·ales, which shows that in every instance. so far as groceries are concerned, the cost of living is less in Xcw South ·wales. I haxc here an official price list from one of the leadin?· Syd1wy butchers-! got it at the shop myself. It shmYs that private enter­prisf' in S,Ydnc~-using Queensland n1eat, mind yon--is "'lling meat at 3d. and 6d. per lb. less than the prices charg·ed in the State 'butcher shops in Queensland. Hundreds of .om bullocb arc going down to the Sydnev market. and are being sold to the butch!'l's. and the meat is being retailed at 3d. and 6d. pe1· lb. less than is the t•ase here. In the interests of the workers of Queensland, I ·want to know \Yh,·. I want to know why Queensland beef is being sold at such a com­paratiYel~- low rate. I do not care for all "'' Knibbs's •~ figurp::.-:, or any other stati~­

··tician's figures-what I go by is tlw actual price that yon can bu,- the artide•-. for. and not ihe figures supplied b~- union secretaries to the Commonwealth Statistician, or anv other statistician. and I Sa7 without fear of contradiction that the work'ers of Queensland are paying· more for thejr meat and paying more for their grocPric~ than is being paid in ::';'ew South \Vales. I am not complaining about the producer getting a fair price for his be<>f. What I complain about is that Queensland beef ~an be sent over the border in the shape of bullocks, and sold down there in the butcher shops for less than js paid here. I use that as a.n argu­ment aga imt the sta temcnt bv the Secre­tarv for- Public ·works that the. Government ·cannot meE't the police requ.est because the cost of living is cht·aper here. It is not. The onlv thing in faYour of Queensland is the differencC' in house rent. which, after all. is not yery much, when you take into considera­tion _the compensating- advantages that could be obtainE'd bv the increased facilities .

.cheaper lighting, etc. I hope that some stronger and better case will be adduced regarding- the cost· of meat. groceries, cloth­ing, boots, etc .. before the statement is made that the cost of liYing is less for the workers of Quecn;;land than elsewhere. I shall leaye further consideration of that matter until we are discussing the Estimates. or until some other time when it can be gone into.

I sincerely trust that the present parlous ·times will rapidly disappear. It does not matter what Government are in power, it ~does not pay any State to haYo an army of unemploved. It is for the S'tate to see that ·the whol'e of its workers are employed under reasonabl<' conditions and r,eceiving decent wages. The sooner we can get to that posi­·tion the better it will be for the State. I shall always endeavour by any vote that I

""ast in this Chamber to better the lot of the

[Jfr. Peterson.

worker and the primary producer, and to do anything that will bring pr?sperity to the State, because I reallse that 1t rs a very bad position indeed to haYe to rely on the employing- of the unemployC'-d to create pr?s­P<;ritv. I sincerely tru_st that the Prenuer wJ!l be able to see h1s way to overcome obstacles as thcv a1'ise from time to time. I know that he and his Ministers have a very trying time, but we cann~t >;<fford to haYe unetnployment, and even 1~ 1t 1s neceS~sary to go to the extent of securmg the necessary monev to find work for these people, let us do it' at the earliest possible moment, as it \Yill be the cheapest policy in the long run.

I trust that my remarks in connection with ra toon cotton will not go astray. I know that as an Opposition we cannot expect the Gm·ernment to take much notioe of us. :Mistakes haYe been made in connection with tlw ratoon cotton question, but y;e offe:·ed ou1· .ad Yice, and we are no\V hoping. seeing that we haYe been proved right, that ~he position will be rectified. I do not w1sh to seek anY glory in connection with the matter. We all make mistakes. I do ask that :\1inisters "-ill do their utmost to see that ratooning is given a fair and squaro "go." and thPV will have ~ver>, l'':ason to be satisfied with the progress m that llldustry.

Mr. iYIAXWELL (Too11'ong): Yesterday the Premier stated that the leader of the Opposition had joined the dingo pack. H was ratht>r mean and paltry of the leader of the Government to make a remark like that. and it was not in keeping with the rest of his speech. His attitude in that respect was not at all dignified. The leader of the Opposition, like many other hon. members on this side, vvas not cognisant of \Yhat had taken place while the Premier was overseas. The only information that we could got was through· the Press. \Ve certainly could not get any inforrnation from The caucus meet­ings that wE're held some tnno ago, and we can onlY conclude that very great conces­sions ha vc been made to the pastoralists. If the leader of the Opposition did make the remark, attributed to him, he was criticising a statement that had been made elsewhere. At the outset the Premier stated that. it mio-ht han' been better, instead of proceedmg to the Loan Council in Melbourne-no doubt doing good work for the State-had he remained here to reply to some of the charges and to reply to the vote of censur,e so ablv moved bv the leader of the Opposi­tion. 'I very m;Ich appreciate the position that the Premi<'r finds himself in, and I appreciate very much the good work that he did overseas. It reminds me of a statement that I made on the floor of the House when the hon. gentleman appealed to both sides of the House to give h!m all the co-operatio_n possible to enable h1m to carry out h1s mission successfully.

Hon. gentlemen are well aware that no less a man than the Governor of the Bank of England gave the Premier to underst~nd that the doors of finance were closed agamst him. When the Premier made his appeal to hon. members to co-operate with him in making his mission a success, I made this statement: That, so far as hon. members on the Opposition side of the House were con­cprned, everything possible for the suc~ess of his mission would be done, as we reahsed the difficult task confronting him, and that anything that was done to jeopardise the

[G A"GGFST.] Address in Reply. 153

mission would be something done against the best interests of the State. I pointed

<>ut to the hon. gentleman on that occasion that it \vas not the men on this side of the House that he had to deal "·ith. but the hon. members on the front and back Government benches and his Labour papers and followers. What do we find? "\Ye find that, when the Premier came back, he was attacked for what he had -done, not by members on this side of ·thE' House, but by members of his own party. Tlw pity of it is that the hon. gentleman did not do \vhat he did in June last in London "·hen he wont home first in 1920. If he had done so. he \YOuld have saved a great amount of libel on Queens­land. A great amount of libel has been heaped on Queensland, and. instPad of putting the responsibility for it upon someone else, he should have placPd it on the front •Government benches and those sitting behind him.

The SECRETARY 1-'0R Pl'BLIC LANDS: You '\.Yere re~pon.sibl(', too. becausp you were a1 -son1e of those n1eC'tings.

l\Ir. MAX\YELL: Th0 hon. gentkman is ·trying to draw me off the track. but I will not be drawn. I have on that matter a greater authoritv than the hon. gentleman. I havo the authoritv of the statements of the Pr<'mier as publ1shed in " Hansard." I hope that. when I give the Premier as my 2-uthority. the hon. gentleman will not do the " crab " trick. as is so often done bv some of his Ministers. The Premier pointe~l Dnt then that irrespective of the actions of any delegation that went home. the position was dictated bv a small cotcric of about 100 men in London 'who did not have anv interests in Queensland and did not care a hang about Queensland so long as the,· attained their <Otvn ends. L

The SECRETARY FOR PrBLIC LANDS : The JlOint is that you presid0d at that meeting.

Mr. MAX\VELL: Yes. and I have never denied it.

The SECRETARY FOR PcBI.IC LANDS: That is the main issue.

Mr. MAXWELL: I have never denied ihat I precidecl over a meeting of citizens, hut I have denied this-and the hon. gentle­>llan knows it-that I never presided at any meeting that had for its object the sending ·of a delegation to London to interfere with .the finances of this State.

The PREM!F.R: What was its object then?

:Mr. MAX\VELL: I am not going to be drawn off the track.

The SECRETARY FOR PeBLIC LANDS: Having iold some of the truth. what is wrong with ·I elling the whole of it? Give ns the whole .].;story of it.

Mr. MAXWELL: If this State has been made subservi<>nt to tlw mone:;ed power of England, as has been stated b:• a section of ·the hon. members opposite. I state eonclu· sively that it has been because oJl tlw repudiatory legislation of the Government. The Premier in granting certain concessions -and we have it from the other side that -concessions were granted-did what was the proper thing under the circumstances, as, 11aving clone a wrong, it is c<Orrect that he should admit it. There is an old scriptural .adage that " there is more joy over one

simwr that re]wnteth than over ninety and nine just men that need no repentance."

The PRE}!IER: I am afraid you have' not got it correct. (Laughter.)

:VIr. :\iAXWELL: The Premier recognised he was a sinner and repented. He. J:as undoubtedly admitted that the Oppos1bon were correct in their denunciati~ns of . t~e ~tction of the Government. The p1ty of 1t 1s that his follow<'rs are not prepared_ to take the viewpoint that reasonable, sen~1ble men ouo·ht to take. The l'remwr pomted _out vc~;tenlav the, differences that have ansen between" him and certain membe:·s of h1s party, but that is a ma~te~ for h1mself. I want to emphasise that 1t 1s 1mposs1blc for individuals in the position in wh1ch the G?­vcrnmcut find themselves to diCtate the1r own terms \Yhen the time for which they have lx>rrowed money has fallen due and t hcv want to get a renewal of th_e lo~n. If "anv hon. member on the oppos1te s:de borr0 ,;·ed £1.000 or any sum for the erecbon of a home, he could no_t at the end of s1x or sPven vearf' for wh1ch the money \Ya:::; borrowed go to the institution and say on what terms and conditions the money should again be lent to him. That is not, at all likel_v. The financier _usually say~, ,;·There is the mon<'y. Take 1t or leave .'t. I do not want to go into ancient h1st?ry and touch on the legislation passeLI by t~1s House that has caused the trouble. I qmte agree -and I have said it before on the floor of the House-and I honestly believe that pastoralists do get their holdings at very low rontals. and at a rental cons1derably lower than what the grazing farmer has to pay. Jt must be remembered. though. thltr \Vh<;n a contract is entered into to do a . certam thing, the Government have no l'lght !O bre;d< that contract. The Prem1er, :vhen _m his wisdom he went home, met the fmanewl brains of England. He was told by them that a contract had been broken. The Premier said. "\Yell, gentlemen, that was Eot the intention of the I..Jabour Governmellt. The intention of the Labour Government was to give a fair deal to pverybo~ly. If yell take that viewpoint. I. on benalf. of my Go,·ermn·nt am pr<'[l:!l"e<l to l1ltN Jt. Let bygones be bygones, and_ place Queensland back on the map as bemg an honouraJ;>le State-a State that is prepared to recogmse its obligations." \Yhat do we now find because he did that ? I will not use the word "irresponsibles," but t_he militants on the other side have taken h1m to task.

OPPOSITION J\fE>IBERS : The Premier used those words.

Mr. MAX\VELL: He may call them what he likes; he knows them better than I do. Thcv argued that he should have gone to Ne\V York, notwithst~nding: !he fact that ~he Premier told us of the cond1twns uncle~· wh1ch the monev would have been granted m ~ew York. f read in the Sydney "_Morn:ng Herald" of 26th June, 1924, of an mterYiew

· th,; hon. gentleman had with. the Press on his arrival at Perth. He sa1d then-

" It has been stat,;d that rather than make any concession whatever I should hav.; raised the money in New York. The critics who mak<:> that statement overlook the great disadvantage to which a State would be subject if it were per­manently excluded from the London

Mr. Maxw6!ll.]

154 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

market. The £25,000,000. if converted in New York instead of London, would co't the State in additional intere't about .£300,000 per annum more than in London."

Yet in the face of that stat-ement we have hon. members opposite advocating the going hack to New York for the purpose of ~ocuring the loan conversion money ! \Vhat han• the geniuses of finance on the other side told us' It has been said that one way of getting this money back is by incr<?ased in­come tax and other taxation. IV e also have this statement~it has been made by the Premier as well as hon. members sitting behind him­that the worker pays the tax all the time. If the hon. gentleman who made that statE'­mcnt is prepared to say that we are all workers, then I agree with him. I object to th<' title " worker" being applied to only one section of the community. I strongly resent that. Again, it is a well-known fact that. if 0-ou put a tax on a man who is sup­p]\, ing wool, sheep, and beef, the tax placed upon him is passed to the consumer~the consumer pa:-·s. That brings you to the posi­tion stated bv the Premier-that the work­ing man is g.oing to pay-and the advocacy of certain hon. members opposite that that is the wa:;· to soh·e the problem is in my opinion a most ridiculous idea to be promul­g-ated bv men who pose as statesmen and legislators.

I sincer,rJy and heartily congratulate the Premier upon the Pxcellent \vork he has done, and the "tuning up" that he has given sonw of his followers will do them good. I do hope that. he and his colleague, the Sec­reta r\· for Public Lands, are going to stick io the course proposed. I have a vivid recol­Ieci ion of rc•ading similar speechE's made at a . meeting of Communists in th·c Trades Hall in 1921. They were tuned up then, end. even though what is t<'rmed the Tory Press haG been eulogising the Premier for being a strong man, it must be a.dmitted that he has proved himself a strong man. Yesterday he was man enough to come out into the open and toll the advocates of a communistic Commonwealth that he would have nothing to do with it. When respon­sible Government ceases to be responsible and submits to being dictated to by outside influence, it is not a success. We know very well what is the " Red Objective" of hon. memlwrs opposite. We know it includes the abolition of the Arbitration Court and the elimination of wages boards and the wages s,-stem. It implies, as has been indicated by the Secretary fo.r Agriculture, " production for use and not profit." I congratulate the Premier on seeing the light at last. It may he somewhat late, but, at any rat,e, he has proved to hon. gentlemen opposite. and to the Communists outsid0, that while h0 is hea,-1 of the Government, he is going to con­trol and he the responsible head~that he is not going to listen to dictation from extremists outside.

So far as the attitude of the hon. gentle­Jnan towards increased wages is concerned, I think it is a genuine one. If the Labour party beliew~and I underste.nd it is a part of their policy~at any rate it has been boasted about and used on various occasions­that thev were the men who introduced the Arbitrat;on Court and who believed wholly and solelv in the Arbitration Court~then they shol{ld g<et behind their Premier, and,

[Mr. Maxwell.

if an:v rna.n has a gricyance against existing­conditions. let him take the opportunity of going before the Arbitration Court and statin_g his case. I congratulate the Pre­mi ·,r upon the position he has taken up in this matter.

~lr. GLEDSOX: Then why are you support­ing a want of CGnfidence motion?

::lirr. ~IAX\YELL: I will tell the hon. member in a moment. I want to say that­the speech made elsewhere by the hon. gentle­man did more for a want of confidence motion· than I can do.

Mr. GLEDSOX: I have not spoken.

Mr. :'\1AXWELL : I am going to give son1e reasons wh:v in n1:v opinion a w·ant of confidence motion should be carried against the Government. In the ftrst place, the Premier >'pokr about financial stringency. \\' e on this side realise its existence, and are very glad that the hon. gentleman also realises it. The pity to me is that the hon. _g·entleman does not persuade his colleagues on the Treasury benches also to realise it--

~lr. GLED~ox : It would be mor-e to the point if you persuaded your colleagues mat to send another delegation to London.

:1Ir. ::\L\XIYELL: It is no use paying any attention to what the hon. member for· Ipswich &ays. I treat his interjections as mouthings and n1pourings. Vlhat d;d he say about th" middlemen whom that side always denounce: At a. Jinncr in Ipswich given h:v the Ips\\·ich Chamber of Commerce to the :'\ aml,our Chamber of Commerce he said that men like Cribb and Foote had done more for the man on the land than anyone else, and that they had helped more to build up Queens­land than banking institutions.

Th(' ElErRET.\RY FOR PcsLIO LA!>DS: I ihought you .were not going· to recognise him.

:'\Ir. :\IAXWELL: I onlv wished to show the contradictorv statements made by the ho11. member. aiJc/ -to prO\'e at the same time that it would b<' ridiculous to pay any O<tten­tion to him.

:\h. GLJmsox : It is the system that you stand for that I condemn~not individuals.

::vir. \1AXIYELL: 'l'her<l are means of a('rompli;hing· s-c1nwthing by the ·Government. There arp >ins that thev have committed, and which they .are perpe'tuating~sins in the· shape of State Pnterprises. There ·are State cpterprises \Yhich. in my opinion, should be \vipC'cl out alto[rether. It is not right that the Premier and ·his colleagues should come into this House and ask the people >Of Queensland to practise economy if they will not set a lead in -that direction. An ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory. \Ye had an oxa.1nple some tin1p ago in connection "-iih the State stations. The Premier said that the Gov£>rnment must review the whole position in regard to State stations. That \Yas last session, and thev arc still thinking· about it. Perhapc their 'boss will not allow them to do it. Eviclenilv the Premier is the boss >vho is now going to take command, and I do believe that he will appreciate that State enterprises are inadvisable, and that he will eliminate some of them in tha interests of the State.

Address in Reply. (6 AUGUST.] Acldres" in Reply. 155

The following fach will be found interesting rcgnding State enterprises other than Taihv.ays :-

Enterprises under control of Commissioner for Trade

Mininf! Entcrpri~e<.;

State Sawmills

Trawler and Steamer

Totals

I do not mind sa~·ing here and now that some costlv blunders have been made in connec­tion~ with 1nining. Xo business n1an tvould conduct his bueine-..s on lines such as those on whieh the Government are conducting Chilhgoe and C'v1ungana. If they did, there would only be one end-they would go thron?·h the f".upreme Court and file their ~clwduiP in insolvency.

TK\1PORARY ADJOURXMEXT. CE~TE~ARY CELEBRATIO::\'S.

At 12.30 p.m.,

Tlw SPEAKER: Order ! It has been reported to me bv the Premier that it will Buit the C'OllY('11ici1ce .of hon. n1en1bers who dl·sire to attend the Centonary Celebra­tions at 1 o'clock if I leave the chair till 2.30 p.m. I shall therefore resume the chair at that hour.

At 2.30 Jl.m., The .SPEAKER re,umed the chair.

ADDRESS I~ REPLY. RE'l.:~JPnox OF DEB.\TE-MR. MooRE's

A~IEXD'\!E~T.

Mr. C\IAX\YELL: At the adjournment of the Ilouse I was ·referring to the losses on State enterprises. and I was stressing the fact that monev had been wasted at Chilla­p:oe and ~1ungana. That was money that the Government might very eftsily have saved. Let me give an illustration of how the Go­v-ernment are- wasting the money. They allmved a lease to be taken up after it had rcnerted to tho Crown, and they subse­quently allowed somebody else to take it up again, and then bought it back for £40,000. That is one illustration of the bad business methods that have been adopted by the Government. In addition to the amount of nwncv that has been invested in State enter­prises and the amount that has been lost. I would l.ike to draw the attention of the House to the interest charges in connection with that !lloncy. The State enterprises have to pay onh- iho difference between the amount of intPrest earnccl and 6 per cont. In addition to th0 !o"""s I have already stated, there is the lo'"' of income tax-calculated on company basis-which would have been payable on the profits made if these enterprise<> had been left in the hands of private enterprise.

l\1r. HARTLEY: They never made a profit.

! Indebted- ! i ness to Profits. Losse~. Unpaid I Trrnsury. Interest.

:----- ~-----i

£ £ £ £

2,:!14,7.)1 +O,llll 667,:35.) '

1,114,303 8,003 062,207 82,6:?:):

7D,768 lS.-114

. 45,102 i i 48,500 lJ,SOZ

1----!------:----: £3,154,814 i £08,018 i£l,Oi8,122

:VIr. ~1AXvYELL: If thev have neve.~.· ruade a vroflt, then the Ciovcrl1n1ent arc per­pc·tuating a wrong. If privato enterpriile meets with a loss, then .that loss comes out of the pockets of the interested individual,. (Government laughter.) \Yhere does it eom•' frmr1 to n1cet th(' lo~sf's on State enterprise::-·: The taxpayer is paying nll the time. The GovcrnnlPnt go ovC'r~eas and a:-k for Inoney to help them out of their difficultie". in the smne \Yay as a private indivi.dual rvould ha..,-e to borrmv money to help him out of his difficultic.'. vYe have to face this question. and there i~ no dis~rui -.ing the fact that bad husinC's.;; nwthods in connection \Yith dabbling in thlngs that they do not undPrstand haYt1-brought the Government to their present positio11.

:Vir. liARTLEY: "\Yhat about the loss at ~lount :}Iorgan?

~lr. :Y1AXWELL: There is also a loss of land tax, damp dun·, etc .. but the"' lo;;ses cannot he calculated. The losses to 30th June, 1923, are-

XPt lo"s 1-npaid intcrc~t Income tax (State

Commomyealih)

Total.

and

£ 1.010,104

97,425

164.925

... £1,272,454

Apart from the annual losses on State enter­pri~c:'!. 1nost of the ent(~rprisPs would in any case have -been run bv private enterprise, and there would have b"een no capital outlav bv the Gm-ernmcnt. The sum of £3,454,814. ":hich represents the indebtedness 'to the Trcasurv on account of the ·various State ederpri"scs I have enumerated, would go '" Ion(•' wav in true dcve]optncntal ,,-ork, such as ~nainv roads and bridges. "\Vater :-upply, repurchase of estates on existing railways for closer settlement, schools, loans to settlers, de. Tf this money had been used in those directiom. much additional employment "ould have been created. But that is not the worst asjwd of the que•tion. The Treasurer and his colleag·ues boast about the amount of moncv receiYcd at the Treasury by w·ay of over "the counter loans. as shm,-intr that the Pon1n1unity who are suhscrjhing to thoBP loans have faith in the Government. In my t1Dinion jt is a weakness. and goes to sho~v that the people are afraid to invest their money in private enterprise for the develop­mcn.t of the State. and the Government are takino· this money which should go into the

. "' Mr. Maxwell.l

l3G Address in Reply. [ASSEl\fBLY.] Address in Reply.

de,·elopJncnt of the State. and it is being thrown into the sink at the Department of State Enterprises. Until the Government wake' up in connection with the State enter­pri>c'><, so long will the State drift. If there is al1ything that would make a representative of the people vot•e in favour of a vote of cen­;t5Urf' and trv to onst the Gon:-rn1nent who .are spenclthrift~. and who hinder and retard the rrogrPSS of thL' State, it is the Governrnent's aetiorl in ronnection with the State enter­Jn·iscs. I would like in quote from the book '· Socia1i:-:nl at \York."

'\Ir. GLED~ox: A very good book. 2.-Ir. :\1AXWELL: The chickens are

coming home to roost. I find on pagc 9, paragraph 3, that this book states-

" By retaining for the State the profit preYiously accruing to private enter­prise. add to the revenue, and render taxation and borro\ving increasingly unncee:;sary.''

\Yhat a ridiculous statement~ Look at the monev which the Government have borrowed! Thev' tell us that "finance is the test of gov~rnnwnt,'' and yet uncle1· thcir Adminis­tration our public debt has increased from £50.000,000 to nearly £90,000,000. This is the kind of ·'elope" they send out amongst :th<' people.

I also want to deal with the matter of the troatnwnt bv the Government of some of th<' 'econdary industries of the State. I have heard it said that the Government have a'sistecl in developing the secondary indus­tries. 1 know some secondary industri<'s which they have not assisted in developing. \Ye havG heHd it said that Walkers, Ltd., 1wn' secured an order from the Government for the construction of a dredge. I presume that if this firm was not exactlv the lowest tcnderer. the Government realised that their pric-e. after they had paid instuancc and ~ther charg('s on an oYel·seas contract. \vould be lower than the English pric-e. What is the condition of affairs in connection with the construction of a bridge over the John­stone Rivt'r? \V hat treatment was meted <'ut bv the Government to our local industries in th>tt sphere of actiYity? We find that the tl'ndcrers were-

Tenderer. Amount of Tender. £ s. d.

\Valker's. Ltd .. ::\Iaryborough ... 14,226 0 2 Poole and Steel<\ Sydney ... 14,018 2 5 G. and J. Dowrie, Brisbane ... 12,510 5 11 Gon'rnment Doc-k Yard, Sydney 12,496 9 2 Elder, Smith, and Co., delivered

f.o.b. Glasgow .. . 6,486 10 0 'Subst'quently the tender of the Horseley Bridge Company was accepted for £5,703 10s., f.o.b. at an English port. From what I can learn. practically 70 per cent. has to be added on to that sum to get an idea of the cost when the bridge is completed. That would bring the amount that the English manufacturers receive unde1· the contract for that work to about £9,695. It is all very well for hon. members opposite to prate about the assistance and he! p they are going to gi,·c to the workers of this State and Aug­tralia. I am fully aware that they allow a preference of 15 per cent. to local contractors. but 15 per cent. under the position obtaining in England to-clay is not a fair percentage if local manufacturers are to compete with manufacturers overseas-3D per cent. or 40 :p~r cent. is necessary. The Governmenio

[Jfr. Maxwell.

ha vc also let tenders for the construction of bridges over the Kolan and Yandaran Ri,·ers to another English firm. It is true that the difference between the successful tenderer and the lowest local tenclerer is a couple of thousand pounds in both instances; but what is a difference of a couple of thousand pounds when we are encouraging the industries of our own State, and at the same time paying the men and thosc associated with the inclustrv a de<'ent living wage and decent conditions? In the old <'ountry the men are receiving about 1s. an hour, and the men here 2s. 6cl. and over an hour. Is it not better to encourage our own people and a<:sist to develop the country in a proper manner? The Government have sent both those tenders out of the State, and what has been the result? All that money has been lost to the State. That monev whi<'h should have been spent throughout 'the State has been handed OY·Cr to the British manufac­tureJ' I am not c,aying a word against the British manufacturer, but I '"Y that our own people' should receive first consideration.

:Hr. BEDFORD: \Vhat about the contract for thG dredge that was given to a German ftrm?

Mr. ~IAX\VELL : I did not do so. and my name is not Rudolph.

l'lfr. BEDFORD: The British manufacturcr has preference under the tariff, but obtains 75 per cent. of his work on the Continent.

Mr. ::\1AX\VELL: The opportunity <'ame for these men who prate about Australian lovaltv. and when it did come what did tl;ev clo? It is true-I want to be fair-that t1w\· did give \Valkers Limited contracts b<'c.au'ie thov knew very well that. if they ordered t!te' new dredge from oYerseas. it was going to cost practically the same as if they ordered through \Valkers Limited.

The SECRETARY FOR PrrBLIC IxSTRITCTIO;<: Be fair.

Mr. MAXWELL: I will giYe a compari­son between Victoria and Queensland-

,. In 1914 thNe were 5,650 factories in Victoria.

" In 1914 there were 1,796 factories m Qneensland.

" In 1922 there were 6.753 factories in Victoria.

" In 1922 there were 1,810 factories m Queensland."

That shows an increase of 1.103 factories in Victoria, while in Queensland we ha,:e an increase of on! v fou rteen-ancl that w1th a State that has· the wonderful potentialities that we h!!ar such a lot about from hon. gentlemen opposite, . who claim to be such friends of the workmg man.

Hon. F. T. BREXKAX: And you sent the delegation home.

::>Ir. MAXWELL: Why, the thing seems to me to be absurd.

" In 1914 there were 118.399 employees in factories in Victoria.

" In 1914 there were 4.3,282 employees in factories in Queensland.

" In 1922 there were 144,876 employees in factories in Victoria.

" In 1922 there were 42.248 employees in factories in Queensland."

An increase of 26,477 in Victoria and. a decrease in Queensland of 1,034. Then agam, on the Queensland railways, the freight

Address in Reply, [6 AuGcST.] Address in Reply. 137

caniccl (goods and live sto0k)-well, I do not want to go into that-hon. members know how it stands.

:VIr. HARTLEY: You arc not game. You are opposer! to increasing the fares, but you are not gnn1e to give the figures.

Mr. ::\1AXWELL: figures-

Year.

1914-15 1922-23

I will give the

Freight Carried (goorls and live stock).

Tons. 4,970,873 4,208,989

761,884 The hon. memb0r for F1tzroy said that I

·was a.fraid to giye the figures. I was ashamed to give them, and I did not want to do so. lion. members on the opposite side of the I-Iousf' arc taking the responsibility for th0 d0wlupment and pushing ahead of the State.

GoYEmDfEXT :YlniBERS: Hear, hear l

:\Jr. MAXvrELL: Bv what means 9 Bv creating sinks in the form of State enter­prises; by running railways on non-paying lines. Is it any wonder that the leader of the Opposition has moved a want of con­fidence 1noiion?

:\lr. HARTLEY: \Ve are going to remedy that by putting on increased freights and fares. \Yill you support the Government on that issue?

Mr. CosTELLO: That is right-stick it into the poor farmer.

Mr. ::V1AX\VELL: I wish tD draw attention to the manner in which some of the Ministers answf'r questiDns in this I:Iouse. In " Han­"ard." I\ o. 1 of 1923. page 16, it will be seen iha t I asked the Secretary for Public \Vorks-

" \Vhat is the estimated cost of com­pleting the Treasury block?"

And the auswer was-" Approximately £230,000."

The hon. member for Kurilpa asked the same question the day before yesterday, and the Minister had the impudence-I 'Say impudence advisedly-to say that it was going to cost £170,000-a difference Df £60,000 compared with the answer given in 1923. Now thPre is only one answer to that sort of thing. and it is this: The difference betwc>en the cost of da v labour and contract work has been noted, ·and the hon. gentle­man sees that it is necessary to do the job by contract. A building such as the Execu­tive Building cost £140,000 and the State Insurance Buildin!i also cost £140,000-buildings necessitatmg two and three times as much work as the 'Treasury block. According to his own showing, it is going to cost nearly a quarter of a million of money. That i,; the only reason that I can think of that the hon. gentleman has got. It is with a riew to misleading the public-I say that unhesitatingly.

The question of dealing with pillaging is a matter of Yi tal importance to the com­nwrcial communitv. Onlv the other day Mr. Justice Lul;in, ·in conchicting the criminal -sittings. drew attention to the seriousneS> of this position, and I asked a question in this House dealing with the matter. As reported in " Hansard" No. 2, page 50, I asked the Home Secretary-

" 1. Has his attention been drawn to the comments made by His Honour Mr,

Jnstice Lukin at 1the recent criminal stttings of the Suprem2 Court that steps should be tah•n to amend the Act to deal "\Yith pillaging?

"2. In the face of His Honour's state­ment. also tlw recommendations made by the F deral Commission as to the amend­ment of the laws of Queensland dealing with pillaging, is it the iutention of the GoYernment to take the necessary steps to introduce this amending legislation?

·' The Hmm SECRETARY !Hon. J. ~topford, Jiount Jiorgan) replied-

" 1. YP"<;.

"2. The matter will receive considera­tion.''

turned up the "Telegraph"' of 31st July, nnd I find this-

,, Inten-iewed subsequently by a repre­SPntatiYe of the 'Tdegraph.' the Home Secretary. Mr. Stopford, said he did not cont-Pmplate introducing legislation to cleal with pillaging this session."

I want to knmy the reason whY anv Minister should stand up in the House ·and say, "The n1attcr \-rill receive consideration," and then go to a newspaper repr"sentative and tell him that he does not propme introduc­ing legislation dealing with pillaging. It 1s a matt0r of serious moment. ='iot only art< the cmnmercial con1n1unitv bad]v treated. but decent working men are being treated as criminals. and it is not a fair thing. I sav undoubtedly that this is a wrong attitude to take up, and to me it is of such vital importance that nnduubtedly. whil they are> dealing· with a lot of amending legislation, this is one of the matters that should be dealt with. \Vhen such a high and reputabl0 authority as Mr. Justice Lukin has pointed out the seriousn ss of the position, fur the protPction of decent working men working on these wharves and working on these ships the least hon. gc>ntlemen opposite can do is (·prtainly to introduce amending legislation to protect the community.

The SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. mem­'"'l" has exhausted the time allowed him by the Standing Orders.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. W. Forgan Smith, Jfackay): Some­what indicative of the general trend of this debate have been the statements of the hon. member who has just r-esumed his seat. The leader of the Opposition-now I suppose the United party-has seen fit to moye a vote of no confidence in the Government, and speeches have been made from that side of the House> setting out their point of view, and setting out oertain charg-es against the Government.

The hon. member for 'Toowong lashed him-" eel£ into a fury about the alleged cost of the Treasury Building, and "ompared it with the cost of the Executive Building-a structure Prected about thirty years ago. He compare:> the cost of the two buildings, omitting altD­gether from his calculations thf> fact that when the Executive Building was erected the costs of material. labour, and eY-erything f>lse connected with it, were much less than they are to-day.

It is my intention to deal with some of the issues which haYc been raised in this, debate, and with the criticism in this House and outside of the G<Jvernment of which I am a member. Statements of various kinds haYe been made that affect the Government's standing in the country, and their integrity

Hon. W. Forgan Smith.]

158 Address m Reply. [ASSE::\IBLY.] Address in Reply.

and honesty of purpose so far as the Labour moyement is concerned. I realise, as one who has had twentv v·ears' active connection with the Labom ,;:,o;·ement, that there can be honest differences of opinion regarding ;Jolicy on matters affecting Labol!r interests; but I deny the right of anyone to suggest that anv member of the Government is less honest ·than himself in improving the workers' interests or the standard of living generally throug·hout the community.

GoVERlOIENT MEMBERS: Hear. hear ! The SECHE'I'ARY FOR Pl~BLIC WORKS:

Since 1915 the Gm·ernment ha Ye carried on their policy steadfastly in a sane way by <evolutionary processes, improving the condi­tions of the people, and placing upon the

··statute-book of this country the platform to which we are all pledged, and in which we all belieYe.

GOVERN}IENT MEMBERS: Hear. hear !

The SECRETARY FOR PL:BLIC \VORKS: One of the bases of criticism has been in ·connection with the arrangements ma·de by the Premier when he was on his mission overseas. The Premier has been singularly successful in that mission, and has carried out his duties in a way which was creditable to himself and beneficial to the country. No Labour principle of any kind has been violated, and his activities have been exertf'd in the interests of the people of Ql!eensland. Some of our critics in this connection do not Yiew the question fairly and squarely. or their minds naturally may be so obtuse that they al'{) incapable of looking fairly in the face the facts as they exist to-day. The bases of cr1edit of any country depends on its ·economic resources, and the industry of the people inhabiting it. In addition to that, the good faith of the Gm·ernment yery largely enters into consideration. \Ye have had to con,·ert a. Yery large sum of money raised by former Tory Governments, who neglected to make arrangements to spread the loans over definite periods. In other words, they made their loans fall due for repayment or conversion on or about the same dates. Con­sequently the Premier had to face difficulties that no previous Minister who went on a

. similar mission had to confront. \Yhat was the position that he had to face when he went to London? W<:> know that there had been an unceasing activity on the part of critics of ,Labour in Queensland ,and Aus­tralia, which had been carried overseas, with the rcstJlt that a feeling of suspicion and distrust definitelv existP<:l on all hands in regard to Queensland. That v<ts the situa­tion which the GoYernment had to face The Premier's <>ciiYities haYe been such that that atmosphere of suspicion has been dis6i­patC'd. and the nnhlic in England gcnPrally llow unclerstancf thnt the I~abonr Goycrn­ment. of QFcensla,nrl is composed of men who arc lo:- al to tlwir oblig·atiom and faith­ful to their trust. Reference has bcc•n made to 'the arrang·e1ncnts wihieh the PrPmicr n"ade with finE~.ncial circlPs in Lonclon. Nothing of anv moment has be·cn given away in the compromise. It has been fittingly dPscribe•l as a gestur(' indiPating the good faith of the Queensl.and Govern­nwnt. and has been accepted -as such. In dealing with the situation. our 01·itirs fail altog-ether to realise tho change of attitude which has taken place on the part of those who were the GoYernmC'nt's chief accu>.rrs. ThE, attitudP waR taken up b~- the Opposition here that the Gc.vornmcnt had repudiated

[Hon. W. Forga.n Smith.

certain contracts. They demanded the repeal of that legislation, and required at least the repavmont to the persons concerned of the amo{;.nts they had paid under the 1920 Act.

Mr. VowLES: That i' not tnH'. It is absolutely wrong-.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS: As a matter of fact. that was the policy of th,, Com;try party. (Oppo,ition dissent.) D•'nv it as the\ will, the',' intended. had tlwy evf'r~ attained io power. i:o give effect to that policy. That also was the request of the Pastoralists' Association and of the Pastoral companies overseas, and they asked for the repeal of the 1920 Act. They also asked for the repayment of increases which have been paid under that Act and for an extensiOn of leases. The concession really means that during the remainder of the period of those l-eases no further increases in rent will be made. That is the case in regard to leases in r•'spect of which the Land Court has already had full and. complete opportunity of increas­ing r<·nts to their full economic Yalue, un­hampered and unirammelled b:v. any restnc­tion wha.tever. The cnt1C1sm whlC·h has been l cvelled against thC' Government by ht_m. members opposite indicates the type of mu:d of tho3B persons, and shows that t!'tey are stJll of the opinion that further thmgs should haw been done. I say emphaticall:-' that the Country party's definite objective. if they had attained to power, was to repeal that Land Act, increase the terms of leases, and repay the amount of money to which I ha.-e alluded. I haYe praYed in this House before that without doubt, was their definite policy. It h~s been urge-d by certain critics outside, and the opinion ha,s been expressed by a member on this side of the House. that the PrPmier would have heen better advised had no arrangement been made at all, and that he should haye come back to Queensland and gone to the countrv on the issue. Let

me examine· that position for a [3 p.m.] few minutes. If that situation

had occurred, we know what would have been the position in Qu-eensland. If the Government had not been able to convert those loans, it would ha.-e meant far-reaching difficulties. amounting to. finaJ?-­cial chaos in Queensland. In add1 twn, 1t would also have mE·ant that the Government would have had no loan funds whatever. Wo wonld have had no loan funds to carry on public works. and there would have be<;n a considerable amount of unemployment m the country. The position as I see it is perfect!:-, dear-that. so long as gm·ernmen(c, horrovv monev 0\~Prsea:-;. and :::o long as vce aro a debtor countrv. we shall be required to pay the price for that money which those who lend it are abh> to put upon it. The Prem1er j~ to be congratnlBtcd on the arrange1ncnt tl1at he made, \vhich is to the advantage of Queensland, and which does not involve an:;' rec~ntation in the definitr' pohcv of the Government. Other matters that haYe been referred to in this debate arc in connection with an increase of the basic wage and also with r-eference to the 44-hour week. One must realise that an;,· shortening of hours that will result in increased leisure to those engaged in manual operations represents a definite increase in the standard of li.-ing of the workers conc<>rned, and it has always been the policy of the Labour movement to ~educc the intensity of labour and the duration of the period of labour. But that must be carried out in a way which involves the minimum of

Address in Reply;, [6 AuGL:ST.] Address in Reply. 159

·difficulty to the State and to the people con­•cerned. There has never been any argument within the Labour party about the desirability of putting into effect the 44-hour week prin­~iple. All that has taken place has been a diff€rence of opinion as to when it should be put into operation. The othc•r mattPr, afJ"ecting an increasf' in ·wages. is one vyhich the Cabinet considered for a long time and investigated all the• avenues where increased .funds could be obtained, and careful!;~· scruti­nised all the obligations that affected the

·Government. \Vc as a Cabinet went into those matters v·erv fullv before the Premier returned from ov~rseas,· and the Government had arrived at a decision on a complete know­ledge of the facts of the case. Our attitude in reference to this has at all times been perfectly consistent and in accordance with ·the methods of Labour Administration. We have always stood for arbitration, and we are the Go>ernment who gave the State employees access to the Arbitratiou Court, which has resulted in incc a sing their -tandard of living very considerably, and has resulted in increasing their wages Yery con~ siderably indeed. That h''s been the policy of the Labour Gov-ernment-a policy which has always been opposed by Nationalists when they haYe boon in power. 'We know that men sitting in the cold shades of Opposi­tion, speaking with their tongues in their cheeks, might pretend consideration for the ·workers' interesh; but we can only judge them bv what thev have done when thev were in office, or ,\·hat a similar party does when it is in office in other States.

A GOVERlOIEKT ME~IBER: That is the be•t test.

The SECRETARY FOR PPBLIC WORKS: \Ve know that it is a part of the definite policy of anti-Labour Governments and of X ationalism generally throughout Australia ~to destroy -the fabric of the Arbitration Court, which the Government and Labour party haw built up in spite of thc'ir opposi­tion. (Opposition -dissent.)

Mr. KERR: It is not true.

Mr. VoWLES: You cannot prove it.

The SECRETARY FOR Pl:BLIC WORKS: I represented Queensland at a very impor­tant Premiers' Conference where this was one of the matters set down for considera­tion. Just immediatelv after the last election I went to Melbourne in conjunction with the Premier to deal with this and other issues. It was expected at that time that they would have from Queensland a com­plaisant Minister-{)ne from the ranks of tt paTty similar to that represented by hon. members opposite. The Tory Governments '"ere representerl there. :'\Ir. Bavin repre· sente-d New South \Vales; Sir Arthur Robinson. Yictoria: Sir Richard Barwell, South Australia.; and there were ~Iinisters from the various other States \Vhiclt at that time were controlled bv Torv Governments and had a dcfmito policy on which they wished to secure an agreement at that time. Summed up, their proposal was briefly this­that accr:>ss to the Federal Arbitration Court be denied to the employees of a State Government, to all local authority employees. ·or employees of semi-public .bodies working under the law of the State. That meant the exclusion from the ambit of the Federal Court of all the employees of the Government, local authorities. hospital committees, and other j)ublic or semi-public bodies. The desire

\Vas openly stated that, after having secured such exclusion, they should be prevented from baving· recourse to any similar tribunal under the law of the State. Mr. Bavin quite definitely put that forward in Kew South ·wales. It was a definite policy of the Government that Mr. Prendergast recently defeated in Victoria. It was a -definite policy of K ationalism in S'outh Australia and all the otlwr States. I know, and every one who studies the position knows, that were Nationalism to secure complete control of the Treasury benches in this or any other State, it would bP goodbye to access to the Arbitration Court, so far as State em­ployees are concerned. (Opposition dissent.) ·we hav" given complete accoc.s to the Arbi­tration Court to all our employees. \Ve ba vc• agreed to remove the embargo under the Public Service Act for the higher paid State officials, so that everyone in the pay of the State will have the opportunity of having his case tried by that impai'tial tri­bunal, untrammelled by any political con­sideration, who will give their >erdict on the case and on the facts as they exist. \Ye find now that an agitation has taken place in some quarters asking the Govern­ment to increase the wages to their employees by 5 per cent.. and asking for a general increase of 5 per cent. throughout. :;:..;ow that <tffeot.s the policy which I have just enunciated. If Parliament had to fix the basic wage or definitely give or with­hold increase~, to the public service. it would mean that all the advantages that the Arbitration Court has given such employees would be immediately swept aside, and thR (•mployec•' would be placed in the position they were in before the court was brought into operation. I do not and never have favoured the policy that Parliament should endeavour to fix wage'. I have always believed in the principle that an Arbitration Court is the proper body to do such things. That principle has been carried on. and very suoeessfnlly carried on, in Queensland, and if those who arc responsible for the present agitation were to gain an immediate advan­tage in the event of their being successful. I am satisfied that the employees of the State would rue the day when the principle was laid down that Parliament should control or fix wage,. That principle is unsound, and contrary to the Labour policy.

It has been suggested by our critics that this .should be done, and that a failure !o do so should be regarded a·s a breach of Labour principles. 'I'he issues that are being fought ir, the public Press, at stopwork meetings. and elsewhere arc issues that were fought at the last Labour Com·ention at Emu Park.

I \\as a dclt1 gatr: at rhat convc11tion. and no less tban five definite motions, having as their purpose the se! ting out of the policy ~f Parliament fixing the basic wage, were clcfcatecl by the convention. Labour shnclo for an Arbitratiou Court which shall be the tribunal to fix wages, untrammelled and completely free, so that. in refusing to accede to the present demands, the Government are carrying out the policy a greed upon by !he majority at the Emu Park Convention.

It must also be realised that financial con­siderations always go> ern the extent to w h_ich an;~· Govei"nment can give effect to their policy. No Government, and particularly no Labour Government, can afford to ignore the economic consequences of any action they. may propose to take. The situation has

Hon. W. Forgait Smith.J

160 Address in Reply. [ASSE:YIBLY.1 Address m Reply.

been reYieyyed Vel'~ carc:ful\.) by th0 C,abi~et, and wh1lo I wouln be m L1vour of Labmet action (11' action Dn the part. Df the _Labour partv in Parliament Dr outs1de to mcrease the 'standard of living and plac0 it on a much higher scale' than exists to-day .. the financial considerations governing the SitUa­tion havo to bo taken into cons1deranon. The following statement sets out the cost of the various proposals that have been made to the Government for the ensuing financial year:-

STATBMEXT SHO>YIXG IxFORMAT!OX AT PRESBXT _-\. VAILABLB REGARDIXG COST TO THE (ion:Rx­)!BXT IF THE STATE >lERYICE uXlOX'S ltEQ"LESTS ARF. GRANTED IS RESPECT OF-

(rt) All Employees Working a :IIaximmn of H Hours per Week;

(b) Restoration of the Basic \Yagc Reduction of July, Hl22;

(c) Itemovtd of the Fiye ~wr cent Reduction, applying to Sa lane's 111 excess 01 ;:.,,00 })('f

annum. Statement (a).

(Cost to permit all e1nployeu \Vorking a 1naxilmnn of 44 hours per week.)

HailwaYs Agricufturc at~ci

Stock .. Printing Office .. Public Lands .. Public Works

(watchmen and tnale c }pn.ners)

1\iain Roads Board Police .. Irrigation Com-

nlission

£

n(ooo

Statement (b).

) .. i 1,070

' i

£ 120,000

~.530

17

030 1,0/l)

61.000

: £185,302

(Cost to permit-fof the Restoration of the Basic Wage Reduction.)

l~ailways AgricultnrP and

Stock . . . . Printing Office .. Public Lands Public Works .. Main Roads Board Police .. Irrigation Com-

mission Public Depart-

tnents ..

15o.ooo po,ooo, 1 18o,ooo 1 ii3 i i 65 l 220

188 . 05 i 7i5 068 65 . I 65

(not vet av!ailable ) 560 . ·. ·. ?5 •. 6.00 16.160

3,023 ' g,923 I

Statcmmt (c).

*20,000

£217,413

(Cost. to the Government if "'The Salaries Act of 19.::!2" be abolished, i.e., if the flvp per cent.

reduction does not apply.) All Departments

(including State En terp rises, Railways..._ Main Roads J::Soard, Irrigation Con1- · mission, &c.) . . :____:::_~~

'£452,715

• Approximate. These ftgures are not complete, because they dD not include hospital nurses, asylum em­ployees and others, who would bring the total up to a higher scale than that.

The financial position was well reviewed in the Premier's speech. It was pointed out that if the cost of administration were increased in one direction, it would mean

[Hon. 'W. Forgan Smith.

curtailment of exnenditure in other direc­tions. That mea1;t that any deficiency in. the rPvenue would have to be made up fron,o_ loan funds, which would result in the curtail­nwnt of the a venues of emplovment for those t1 ngag('d on public "~arks. The an1ount that I have rPferred to, calculated on the basis. of an average of £220 per year, YYould give employment on railway construction to 2,058, HH-'11 for a y0ar. That is an in1portant con­'ideration, and tho··C are the things that tho Go,~crnment lw Ye to take into account-. While "·e desire as far as possible to increase the standard of living and increase the sum wtal of humn11 happiness, we felt that we would not be jnstifie~l at the present time in giving increases to the public senants which would n1ean nnf'n1n1ovn10nt on raihYav construction to railway. nasvies and unen1ployment to othf'r nH'n engaged on the construction of main roads a,nd on the public works of this State. The Government have only a certain anwunt o£ n1one~T to expend this year, and conseqHontJy, if increases are granted in one direction, th,,re must be curtailment in anDther, and the amount I haYe referred to represents a curtaihncnt of the avenues of' cn1ployn1cnt to construction work('rs equi­valent to 2.058 11H'!1.

\Ye haYe not bc•cn b!.ind to our n'sponsi­llilitics in {'OIUloction \Yith inrproving the conditions of thP people. To hear our critics ont' would imagine that the Labour Govcrn­n:cnt h8.d done nothing- to in1prove the con­ditions of life in this State: wt I sav that thf' ·tandard that has been "built u11 and 1naintaincd in QuC>C'ns1and i'ince our Govern~ ment han' lJeen in office has been consider­ably in excess of the etandard when Torv Uo\Ternmt1 nts \Y('fC' in pO\Y('r. In Queensland the average working week is 45.51 hours per >;eck, >vhieh is lmver than anv other State in dw Commonwealth. It i5 ·right that it should be so, bec·ause we know that, with hett0r organisation of industry and with the imprm·ed methoch of production due to the ii.troduf'tion of In bour~saYing machinery, the workn is entitled 10 some Df the benefits of the savings which are Cffectf'd by such 1rocthods. and no better way could. be adopted than by reducing thP intensity of labour and lowering tlw worki11g week. \Ye have yet tD introduce the 44 hour week-a princip!.e that I have always advocated and believed in, but a little time will elapse bdorp it is put defi­nitely into opP!"'l~ion. so as to enable th" Government and other employers to make the neces.c;;ar.v arrar~gelnf'nts to cope with the Eew 'tandard of c-onditions. \Vages and th<> stan<hrd of livinz h~:ve incrpased cDnsider­ably since 1914. The averag·e ruling rate for unskilled workers in 1914 was £2 2s. per week. In 1920. £3 17s. wa,q regarded as the basic ,,·age~ whif'h rP·prcscnt0d a percentage increase of 83.33 JWl' cent. The basic wage of £4 5s. was first fixed bv the Arbitration Court in Fehrnarv, 1921. 'and it show0d a percentage increas"e m·er the average in 1914 of 102 38 per ceJ't. Compared YYith 1914, the basic wall"<' of £4 fixed by the court in Feb­ruary. 1922. ~ho\\·ed a perf'r>ntage increase in wages of 90.48 per .:ent. The increase !n the cost of Jiying from 1914 to 1923, accor~mg to " Knibbs." was 51.45 per cent., showmg an elfective increase in wages, in addition to the increased cost of livin,r. of 39.03 per cent., which is a substantial increase in the effec-1 ive ot econornie wage so far as it ,affects Queensland. I will givE'. some of th~ figures in the various industnes. The mcreases

AddrP88 in Reply. [u .-i.UGL:ST.J Addr• · ' in Reply. lGl

l1aYc been greatest in unskillcJ avcnnes of -ellJp1oyment, .and that is naturaL lH•cau ,, men vyho arn highly skillrd an~ also highly .organl:<e·d and Lceanse of tlw rarit~· c·f their .skiJl :-re oft0n c;ble to de_1lancl fo1· ilH'mseh-es ·conditions that the unskilled arc mLble to ..aLtain. qnf:lltly. if we inert ,,:;.;c t~w Btrlndard < Jiying of DH?l1 in HL.,ki]Jcd OCC\1-

}JJtio-r.P, it l'l' 1 llT c•nis a d(·flnite incTC'Jse in th<· .-ta:.d1l'cl of )iying- ;.c,; r~ll,v. I que>t bclvw f!gur ·-; ho\Ying tho i1 Cl'l ~"t' of \'. :;gt's ill the en iolL3 indu:-:.trios-RETFRX SHO\VT~G THE PTIOGRE'S:) IX T~DLSTRIES

)IE~TIOKED BELO"\V DURISG 'THE YEARS . 't! -l AND 10:::1, \YITH THE PLHCE~LtHE J~CREA ·E IX COST OF l.IVING, \YAGI''•, AXD EFFECTIVE J X­CREASE IS \YAGl~S FRO:\I 10 !-±- TO 1 0~

j.wan{. I

. PPrcenta~.::e>!P_t>rr·rntn:.:!:<~; Prrc'; ~;tag:> lncrea:'t' ; hwr· .·'·" 1 of

1 if?. cost of 1 in \Y;:l .·~ ! Fffcc7i\'C' I ]jyinu JSJl ~ to 1JJCJ'US(' · 1 ;1.+ tu W:2 in \Yagrs.

~uildcrs' La bonren.l ".)hop AssJstant.R

. OJales)' no (Females) :

)Icch. l~ngineerp, I (UnFkilled) I

l{aib-s ay Construe- ,

J\rJ'fr~t~n~~~~ure.r~ I Traffic Porters .. I

HJ:!.

n:-;.: -) DO·~lf>

(),-)

7;-i".--0

10i<D

Centtal Dil'i.~·iun. ·Carters (Generalj i 4iJ'JS 7 4 ·87 Sugar}iill ~N<;rkers' 66·~l Yield Workers .. I 66·\l2 J{ailway Construe- i H5·G9

tion Labourers ' Maintenance Lab- j

ourers : f~~~~r~r~rters . . I

68·7.) tL::J:l

l'i~nrthern Dinsi.·on.

Bail way Construe- 48·0:' 11 0·18 tion La bourcrs

C\Iaintsnance Lab- DJ·11 ourers

Traffic Porters .. Workshops

(Unskilled)

/8·-D \14 '11

-ll·D ).J()

-t ,- t,:-) :2S'l-t

:)--1·49 :'6·,-J:! ~V.~>-!

f4·71

28·._;7 4:2·96

·HH6

::0·' 8 4tiOG

Those figures indicate that during the pericd of office of the Labour Government they hr,ve raised the standard of living very con­siclerablv, and that the increase has been great.est' amongst unskilled workers and the great mass<'s of the people who did not get a fair "' go " from Employer::; or Tory Governntents in the pa'' t.

Improvements have also been effected in the working hours. \'i'hen we took office the working hours averaged 48.70 pe1· week, whereas, as I mentioned earlier in my speech, the average working hours to.clay are 45.51 per week. All those things go to show that \VG have done everything possible to improve the position of the workers. ar cl -that effective increase in the standards haD been maintained.

Some of our opponents. not content with criticisn1. on the wage~ and hours issues~ have seen fit to issue " dodgers" and le~flct3 which distort the true fa, ts of the position.

Mr. MORGAN; No.

The SECRETARY FOR VCBLIC \VORKS: I refer to a circular which I have in mv hand. entitled " The Workers must Contr~l iho A.L.P.'' Xow, there arc two forms of

1924-;lf

thought in !he Labour movement. and have been for many year, pnst. There is tlw f'Yolutionnry section, \vhich bclil'\"C'S in social rc·forn1s and reconstruction by gr.'ldnal evolu­tionary proct,.sscs with the xninim~un of dis­turbance of society, building UJ) incrc·1~icgi,, each ycae a better fonu of ,,.ocial and cconon1ic organisatio~. Tho other forrn of thought ,, tancls for n1orc (1f';;;truL tivl~ n1cthoJs. Those \Yho rn·ofess it. bclieYe that sociPty cannot be in1proved as org~!-1iscd at prPsent -that it must Le lJrought to 111 C'''d, if ncce:::,::try, b- viol0nt n1cnX>.S. That i.;; thf· form of thought of a ~'lnalJ sc.ct:on o~ th people. I clo not beli~ve in that form of thought, and whil~t it might be llPl···s.uy in son1c countries, jt i~ cci't'linly futj]e a1;d disastro-._ts so far as Queenslctnd i~ eonccrncd. In this State we ha' o ~·)mpkte adult ~uffrRgc, \Yhcrcb.v f'\-cry man and \Yon1an i~ entitled to vote in rhe election of memhP"' of Parliament. and consequently ihe rat, of progrc~ ')--[3.3~ p.m.] Tlw SPK\ KEE ; Order~ The hon. gcntle­

nlan htJ.-:l exhausted the 111110 c~1lo"\\ ed hin1 unrlt'f the Standing Ordc1 "'··

Tit(' wnm SECRETL\R y (Hon. J. Stop­ford, Jlount Jforr;an): I beg to nlovc-

'· That ihe Secretary for Public \York' b' granh~~ 1 an cxt,•n~iOn of tirne to enable hirn to COlnplete his SlJCCCh,''

Queotion put and pa·.,ecl.

The SECRETARY FOR. Pt~DLIC \YORKS: I thank hon. members for the courtesv which the'· han' extended to me. That form of dis;·upti -.·e policy from a Queensland and Amtralian point of view would be futile aEd di "ast:L'ous in the extrcnw. Vndrr our rncthods and under our Constitution wo can build up any form of society that we are intelligent and bra Ye enough to call into lH'ing. That can be clone by perfcdly con­stitutional means, hy gradual processes involving a n1inirnun1 of dlsturbance when reforms arc put into effect. Against those two schools of thought a continual war is being waged by those people who say that thev see in the constitutional soeialist an · ffcctive barrier to the success of their revo]u. t ionarv schemes. Those are facts that it is well for the public to know, and which should not be ob' cured at an\' tirnc. Tho:::c )eople have issued a ciroulm··-·which I have in lllY hand-which i;:; an attack on the Pren1ier and n1y"'elf. · :\Ir. KELSO; \Vho printed it?

The SECRETARY FOR FCBLIC WORKS: Tlwrc is no irnFrint upon the leaflet. and perhaps hon. members opposite could obtain information in that respect. The leaflet contains an attac·k on ihe Premier and my­self, and extracts from the speeches that we made at the Emu Park Convention. The speeches we mflcle dealt with a proposal to give the executive of the Labour party cer· tain far-reaching powers. It proposed that that executin' should have authoritv which is now vested in the Government. ·I pointed out. during my speech that the proposal was rontrary to all forms of dcn1ocratic govern­ment. would destroy the repre,entativo insti­l utions that the workers have fought for throughout the world for centurie··, and would usher in a form of control that the public of this or any othe1· State 1%ould not tolerate for one moment. '.fhat resolution was clcfeatf'cl by a very large majority of the convention, only 0leven votlng for it and

lion. W. Forgan Bmi6h.]

lG2 [ ASSEl\1BL Y.] Addres8 111 Reply.

flfty-fin, against it. inuicating that the Labou1· partY did not stand for a policy of that kind. Because we rduscd to carry out the ]Hoposals made bv tbe same school of thought, attacks ol this kind are be-ing made on u·,, The~:; tacti<.:s arc disruptive of the r ',Jvt'n1cnt. Thcv arc nnfaiT. Thcv do not

1 ont 1 ht~ faet-s of t1~t' pos.ition. L anrl are lJ.knlateJ Jo illjUi' I11l'~J li~,c 1hc Prc1nler, \\:ho hrb rendcrell yL o1nan ~c·J·yic··" to Qur>cn~-lruld and to 1lw ILO\dHPnt a \Yav in whidr his critic~ \vould llut h ,•,e ( 1J)a.eii.\r to do. All thr)e mattcTs I have set ·out ·have a definite bearing un th• rituation. Tho policy !h.at tho Govc·rn1~cnt a1·c pu_r.::uing is entirel~ 111 ac•:ordanco with tho deC'lsiOns of Le hour­in-politic, Convention. \Y c ha\ e been carry­Jng on our policy rn accordance with 1h~ rrrcthods thnt hav{~ be011 in cxistcncP ever sine,~ the. Labour part:; became a party. A coutmuahon of that policy is bound to result l!l the gradual irnproYemcnt of the con­ditions of the people, but if on the other hand, the disruptive tactics of' our opponents are pers1st{'d in and :-trc successful, it would mean the disruption of every gain that has been rnadc since Labour came into office, and would throw LaJ,our as a movement intu lho Vl-ildf'rnC'ss for nwr::v V('<lrs tq -come. These arc facts that the' ]1ubli,; who support the Labour movement should be fully acquointcd With. I have endo3voured to outline them in the b1 i,f ~ime at my disposal freely, honr ,t]y. and m aecordance with the facts. The Labour movement is som0thing to which I am proud to belong. It is a movement that calls for the be··t that is in mankind, and calls for the raising of citizenship to a l-:1gher :-iandard than ;:uJ-\' hithcrt0 nttatnctl. If the evolutionary proce,ses which I have described are continued, then Queensland and the L •.bour movement will continue to advance, and we shall build on what we have alread,, built an <'dificc of which not only the wOl'kcrs in the movement but the peopl•., of Queensland may be jmtly proud.

GovERNMENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

::Wr. BELL (l•'assifrrn)': I suppose I must congratulate the mov.!r and seconder of the Addrc;s in Reply because they did 1 he best the:v could \Yith a very poor subject. I know that thcv said Yen little about the GoYcrnment pi:ogrammo. " \\'c must admit that this country has prrssecl and is passing through a ln<Jst 1 ryi -g tirn.f•. Our n1ost pro·, ,ing needs to-day arc people and money. If there were more people in Australia. a great manv diffi· ultic-. from which the pri1nary prOdurers aro suff(~;ing to-dav "\Vould entirely di' 1ppear. '

OPPOSITION ::WEMBERS : Il<'ar, h<•a r ! Mr. BELL: 1Jnfortunately, that encourage­

ment has not been giYcn. >1nd over since the termination of the war Ansi ralia, and Queensland in particuhr, haYc lost their golden opportunity. (,lucensland has paso-cd through a very critical period in the last few months. and we must congratulate the Prcn1i0r upon the surce~s of his mission on the other side of the world. I must say that members of tlw Opposition gave the hon. gentleman whatever help thov could in his mission, because we realised" that it would have been a national calamitv if the Premier of Quc.c'l~land hn d not sccu1:ed a conversion of that loan. There was no reason why the PrenllN should go homo and make apologies unless 1t was for somdhing that he himself or his Govcrnrn0nt hacl dm1P.

OPPOSI<rlON MEMBERS: Hc.ar, hear !

[Hon. W. Forgan Smith.

Mr .. BELL: There "\\as no reason why any PrcmiC'r .~hould go homo from a State liko Qm cnsl-md .and make apologies for Queens­l_~lnd. l-Ie rnadP the apologies for his own Gon•rnment, and not on behalf of Qu-eens­land at all.

OPPOSITION :'11E"NIBERS: Hear, h2ar ! 1\Ir. BELL: Ko doubt the Premier secured

the con l'eroion of the loans on the best t~·nns under the circum~tanccs, but those Cll'f'l1_DlSI; 1 ncc,. were entirely of his own n~ak1ug_.,. It \Yould ha,~c be('l1 very much better lf the hon. [entleman had made an op<'n st:ltement of what the coLcessions he granted really arnounted td. Queensland is 1n the. dark. as to their na~ure, and Pariia­lttCnt 1s cntrtlcd to rrwre 1nforn1ation than lhc Premier has vouchsafed concerning them smco }us return to Queensland. \Ve have statements made by members on both sides of the Houc0 as to their character. Even the_ membe1·s sitting behinu the Premier clc~nn that tho Goycrnn1ent have given somc­tlung a\v.ay. If they have, th<·n we must c·Jngrat:Jlate the. Premier on acknowledging the poSJtJon ol hiR own creation in which he found himself and on making the best terms he; could under the circumstances. That f'hotlld be a warning to any future GOvern­IDPl!L

. There is one matter that is seriously affect­mg the development and progress of 'Queens­laud-I. refer to the raising of local loans in Au."-traba. I Y<.-i:5h to issue a note of warnino· '" tlw Au>tralian Loan Council to kcPp that fact m mmd. \\'e want that moncv kept 'wr_c n_. the State to develop industry and assiSt m. the advancement of all industrial nndcrtakings. If. loans' are- raised here by tlH' Gm rnmcnt, It meaus that that money Js take~ ~Wa'<,' fron1 ot-her useful purposes and the bmlding up of private 0nterprises. Thi& ~~ a :'-'O:HII!>' rountry. and we cannot stand the ~n1110 stratn on our finanC'('"' a·1 the older and mon' s tt~cd countries of the ,,-odd.

Th c• Govemmont have posed as friends of the !ll'o,,]r._ but I think that the "ago--earner In <)uocnsland has a vani",hincr job. I shall quotr- -comparison;;; in the n~n1bcr of em­ployees in Queensland aud other States in 1913, th<' :ear before this Government came I~:tq po\vcr, and from the latest returns for-1923. Bear in mind that this is a State where the Government pos< s as a friend of the \\'ol·kcr~-

{ '0:\fPARATI\-E STATE,IEKT SHOWING Ft..eTORY WORKERS PER 10,000 l.Jr·'\N POPULA~ION.

Victoria-1914 832 1922-23 910

-- an increase of 108 ~·. w South Wale>s-

1914 626 1922-23 695

-- an increase of South ~.\tlstralia-

1914 611 1922-23 670

-~· an increase of Tasm:nia-

1914 450 1922-23 479

-- an increase of West• m Australia-

1914 545 1922-23 518

--an i1!crr1.se of ~0\\'' Wf' COITlC to

1914 Qucenslancl-

641 1922-23 541

69

59

29

3

-- a decrease of 100

Address i.n Reply. [G AuGLCST.] Addie88 zn Reply.

That, despite tho fact that Queensland has its O\Vll coal and gTPater natura] resources than tlw otlwr Stat;s I have mentioned.

I also desire to draw attention to the fact that the Govanmcnt do not altogether possess the confi donee of the workers of this State. I am going to refer to a meeting of miners which was held at Blair Athol. Hcr·e are sornc of their statcn1cnts--

Tho IImiE SECRETARY: Do you support tho~c st,,tenJCnb '[

J\Ir. BELL: They are talking common­sense, anyway-

'· Three v,'ars without a rrntrmur we ha YO backed State cnterpri,o, hoping and believing (being led to do so by our politicians) that those mines were paying their v•,ray and that th~-y "'ere becon1ing· a gn'at asset to the State. The result has been ap11alling. For every £1 wmth ·of coal they produce we have to borrow something like another £1 to pay losses. This is done solely for the plCl·.ure of crippling the most wealthy co::tl propositi·on the world has known, a proposition that is capable of supplying an export trade that will, when it gets its chance, pull Quo. nsland out of the hole into which our State mines are helping it."

That is what the miners o••y, and I would like to draw attention to llw output of the mines tcferred to. This a rticlo goes on to say-

" To-day, after thounnds of pounds of borrowed money has been 'pent on them, the Stvx coal costs 32s. 2d. per to 1 to put on" the truck, and it is wld to tho raih,·ay for 25s. per ton, a loes of 7s. 2d. pc!' ton to the mine, and as B.A. coal is sold to them at 10s. bel. per ton. a losl to the department, of 14s. 6rl. per ton. The cost of producing coal at Baralaba is lSs. 9d .. and it is sold at 14s. lOd., a lo•s of 3s. lld. to the mine, a,ncl 4s. 4d. to the rail wa.v."

Those arc very illuminatin'i facts, an.:! thcv show what the workers in that iHdustr:: think of State enterprise.

At 3.46 p.m., The CnArmrAN OF Co}DIITTEES (l\'lr.

Pollock, Grcoory) relieved the Speaker in the chair.

Mr. BELL: Those statements show what the workers in the coal industrv think of State coalmines, and the same. might be said of every other State e11terprise in '·' hich the Government a1·o interedcd to-day.

The Govornmcmt arP Ol)Cl1 to censure because of their yacillating cotton policy. The Government could ha Ye done a great deal lo impl'cve the cotton induF!ry by making expcrimcr,ts. They boomed cottor•, n.uch to the detriment of rne>ny of the fannPrs {•ng-1gcd jn cntton-gro""vi1Jg-, iJJstcad of cng-agii;;)" in cxpc~·iments in Lhc• v.1ri0us di-trict8 to v~.ecrtnin ·what Yarictv of cotton was suitabl0 for the different ar;'as. The"•' facts were pointed out vN:: forcibly by the Opposition \\·he'll the Cotton Industry Bill was before th0 House, but th·' Govemmcnt took no notice of what was said. ~ow they find that thcv have lo tlke notice, ancl thev are doing the very thing that tlL· Opposi­tion ad-, ocatcd last year.

There has been no mention by tlw Go­vernment of a land settlement policy. Some provision should Le made to cope with the

millions of acres of land vchich arc falling into tho C1

rO\Vn in the next few· years. It is useless to think that such a large ar0a ~an be abs?rbod by the grazing farmers. because there IS no money to finance' tlwrll, and the Govcrnrnent will, find that YCry larg-p areas of land ·will be left on their hands. unles' they 1nake 8omo provision for absorbing them.

The SECRETARY FOR Pc:BLIC LANDS : Do yon rc·c,!ly believe thrtt we shall be left with a large area of land on om· hand· ?

Mr. BELL: Yes. The SECRETARY FOR PuBLIC LA·:ns: Ho"

n1uch would vou bo prepared to t:tk· up to-n1orrow? ....

Mr. BELL: Probably, I v;ould he pro· f;ElrPd to Llkc up at a rcasonaLlc rent <-~s much a, I could stock, but perhaps not at tlw rent the hon. gentlema.n would want.

The SECRJCTARY FOR PUBLTU L\XPS: I waut th8 full economic value.

Mr. BELL: It is always an open question what is the full economic aluc. V\'hen seasons are good and wool is high, the rent is not a very important nl:ltter.

The SECRET.IRY rOR PuBL!U LA:-;Ds: Thoro· ar•J plenb of fre••hold lands to-da" paying 3d. an acre land tax to the Federal and· State Governments, and adjoining leasehold' land paY3 4d. per acre to the Crown.

Mr. BELL: That land was taken up· 111any years ago.

The SECRETARY FOR l'cBLlC LA:\DS: That does not n1attcr. They are paying that as a fact.

l\rr. BELL: Probably th0y would be prepared to got rid of it if possible. The:.­took up that land many years J.~o and spent large su1n~ of ll10EOJ in improying it.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LAKDS: In addition to the tax they have interest on the capital .cost of the land, which brings it up to 2s. 3d. per acre.

1\Ir. BELL: That does not look a very pruiltable undertaking. I hope that the Government will take that matter into cor .. si dcra tion when those large areas a re cut u. p for subdivision into smaller holdingo. To cio !hat somo financial provision will have to be made fnr adntllcos to settlers who will take Ltp the land »hen it falls due.

There is another qucction I would like to bring hefore the House; that is with regard to wat0r t.<Jll:--\'rvation and irri,5ation. \Ve all rcali, thc,t iu a eounhy like Queensland it i:' absolute!:~ necessary that ... amc policy of wal-( r con,erYat.ion Fbould be gon(~ on with; but the Govcmmcnt have fostered a scheme in the Da>;cson Valley, which I maiutain is fnllv fiftv rears before ib; time. \Ve have

" to 1h~ cit''· in n1orP scttl< d areas and to nHtrkct :. land which conld br> nti 1 i~c-i

1n (·onnc•ction "\\ ith 'ivater conservation, and it would not be in the nature of an oxperi­rncllt, as it wovld be a ro:nrnercial proposi-1 ~on and not be a flnan('ial bnrdcn on the Governmcut. On the Dawson Valley Irriga· tion Scheme >Ye propose to spend millions of J)0U!1ds. The land will be in small areas, hund1·cds uf miles awa-,- from the coast, and then the market will "be hundreds of miles 'may from the port. We find to·day that the farmf'l' ha.- a difficult job to keep body and ···oul together, oven alt.hough he is close to the market, and the products to-da;,- in some cases >.ill not bc.-u the cost of carriage.

.lJfr Bell.]

!G± Address in R'"p!y. [ASSEMBLY.] .AdZrt:;;s in Reply.

I would suggest that a sllw1kr scherne, such as one in connection with th·2 :\Iount Ed IV ards area, should have been gone into by the Government. :\1ore than sufficient already has been spent on the Da\\·son scheme to hcno built the Mount Erlwards dam, and it would have b'""' an efYective proposition right from the start. It will be very many year~ boforn the Da\Y.'Oll area \Vill produce anything of a comrnerclal Yalue. I visited that area quite recently. and son1e very old hands who have bc~cn on the Daw~on all their Jive8 as~:nrcd n1c that they have seu1 the Dawson River in flood for many months in times like the 1890 flood. There is a con:'iiderable diffcre11ce in altitude on diff~rent parts of the area, and there v. ould be a grectt ru.-.h of water iu a big· flood. Thc-o men do not thiuk there is anv dam over built that WGuld impound all the. water in the Daw>on Vallcv in flood time. I think it is in a Vt;''Y dang'2l:ous po~ition, and that iu flood tirnc sorno of the settlers rnay be washed away. I hope that m:,' prediction will not come true, as I should be vuy smTy indeed to see the ,..ettlers in those areas completely blotted QUt by flood water~.

\Yith reference to the railway policy, I think it is a mistake for all\' GoYern1nent to go in for a policy of ra;l way~ ahead of requirements. This is a. voung country, and n1any areas require devf'lOpn1cnt. There are an ,ts lvhich are entitled to raihvav con1n1uni­-ca6on, but it will be very tnany :y:ears before the railways already passPd will be built. I would like to draw the attention of the H ouso to the very grca t need there is for raihvay extension in the Dugandan district, \Yhich contains some of the finest lucerne land in the State. It is justly entitled to rajh,{a:;- con1n1unication, and n1anv of the settlero there live 25 or 30 miles ··from the railway.

I would like now to turn to thr· cattle industry for a fe\v 1ninutes. The cattle lndu.:tr:v has been carri,"d on for 111anv vcare in Que~·nslrtixl, and it is an industrv~ v;·hich ;,t·ill be (',;tried on for nwnv nutnv ~·ear8 in this State, provided that vv~· lHtYe' i~H:reased opportunitic.~ for devc'loprnpnt -<.uJd expan­sion. During the last threP years, ho,vevcr, it has been going through a n1ost critical period, and many ol thosp engaged in it haYe spent a considerable tirne in endeavour­ing lo evolve sDme practical :::;chenw which will be effective in J,ifting it on to a rnorc~ satisfactory footing. I trust that, wh, n that schenlE' is place.d before them. hon. 1ncmbers -will give it only fair critic-is1n and the fullest support.

:VIr. RIOROAK: ·what benefits will this sch0me bring aLoL<t" It i" an undeYcloped schr•me, is it not?

!.lr. BELL: The industry has newr been organised. The firgl. real a"tte;npt which has beE'n made to organise it on a sound basis is practical!"' the scheme which I am going to place before hon. members.

Mr. RIORDAN: What will it do?

::\[!". BELL: It is intended to prm·ide an vut!ct fm our beef both interstate and over­eeac. At the present time the cattle industl·y is pa•·sing through a difficult period. and I think it is up to this Government to see that the rebate of 30 per cent. in railwa.v freight; should be cDntinued. I would like to outline hri~fly th<> scheme which has been submitted to the Premier. I have already indicated that this is an urgent matter, and .I ask for prompt

I Mr. Bell.

and favournblo consideratioiJ. The ~chcmo i- on situilar linc,s to an Act Jl<l~~f'd in 1893, \\hen a ~i1nil.ar pof-ition aro<Sc in the indu.stry to that which exiots to-da,·. In the earlv niEPties cattle Y:cn~ of pr:1~·ticillly no vnlu0 Ht alL and tlw GoYcrn!uent ·:->f the dav impo•,cd fL levy on tbe stoc kowners in JHaC­tically the whole of the Stare bv nH ~ns of an A'ct C'all~~d the :Jleat and Dai'rv J?rocluce Enrourag,emPnt Act of 1893. ;rhat Act; cr!ablpd t.hc producPrs to p;·tftb!idl facturie for the> t catn:cnt of their · t~;<'k, thP to b~ dL·frnvcJ fro:n the fund5 lH"oyict·d the-levy. c:;lfO~ tU.lH.td:y, t}lo 'ycak pcint th:lt ··chcnw \Yas that it \Vas no~ c~ ... ential that the sbarcs in t~w nndcrtakit]g shcnLl Le held by pr-odu('cr~. and that they could be Jld on thP open n ~rkct. The rcHdt ·,va·· that the:; pasocrJ into tho hands of <Jthcr and ( Jlltrol \YC'J:t OUt of thr hru:d~ or [Jl'O-

dncC'r:-;. lTndC'r th~, :?(·hunc to \\hit'h I L·'---fcr it i,, prono,ed that onlv pr-oduc~·rs rna.v ho~d shai'f'·-, ~~~d that each~ 8harf'holdel- shall b2 r-ntitkd to one vctc only. It is thm_-;_gllt that 1 hat will cesurc p0rpetuih- {)f control to the gnywcrf:. Th0 whole of th;, ~to\']{ in th..-:; St:.tir ViTuld romo under this .f·chrme, cattlnownl'l'S a'ld f'heepown<)rs being both afiectPd. Tlw lcn' is. r,ot lar,.;c-not more than 15s. per 100 cattle. or 2s. per 100 shPep-or in the pro;>or­tion of 7~ to 1. That means that the indu~trv it~elf "ould provid£~ the fund.~ to

;uirec or erect. the factories rcquin'd. The ownPr~ {)f -shc0n nre concerned as well as the o;,·ncrs of rattle, because, although woo1 is just now more profttable than mutton. the tinw nHlV C'OITIC when 1nuiton ,nlJ. pla~y D

rnuch lal;p;·:'r part in the <~ronomic valw~ of thc·· she0p.

The scheme will be a compulsory one. and it is ab<olntclv necessary that those who will bR called 'upon to pay the levies will haY<' the rig·ht to say whet~cr or not _the scheme should be brought mto operalwn. The schem~ will bo submitted to a poll, and onlv those who have paid the levies will ha.;" the right to vote. The Board will arrange the sales ancl purchase of stock for interstate and oyerseas export. That means

that it will haye absolute control, [4 p.m.] which is a very neces,ary thin!',

because we have found that 111

othn parts of the world our Lee£ and beef pro­ducts can be sold at a reasonable profit, but unfortunatelv th<> high charges -and many commissions- that we have to pay leave very little for the grower. W c think that by 0fficient organisation we shall overcome th~se diffic-ulties. It is also proposed that abattoirs shall be established. and they will work for local distribution. The abattoirs ar0 a public utilibc, and sufficient provision has been made" to giyc representation on the various boards to those interested. If the scheme is put into operation, it will ensure ": bet~er price for the grower. The Board Will give the highe,t price, because the o':erhead charges will bo less. The scheme will pro­Yide for adequate inspection for all meat for local consumption. I think that in a State with such a hot climate as Queens­land it is ab·olutely n.ecc··ssary that the c:on­wming public should have some protectiOn. The scheme alw provides for the coming into operation of three meatworks at export centres of the State. The trouble in the past ha' b<>en that the meatworks have not giYon continuity of employment; but, If the scheme comes into operation, there Will be continuity of employment 111 the three

Address in Reply.

centres. It also provides for the tr -ating of more stock locally for the interstate trade; it provides for the treatment of stock when it is prime and will enable the industrv to carry on profitably am! expand. In finan­cing this scheme it is proposed (o go to th~ Commonwealth and State Governments and & ,.), . i hem for a loan oYer a period of year", giYing as security the works to be erected and the right to levy Dn the stock owners of the State. The profits are to be distributed on a pro rat& basis of stock treated or purchased by the board, after due provision has bPcn made for the payment of interest and redemption, for a reserve fund, and for the payment of interest not exceed­ing 6 per cent. to the holders of scrip. The State is to bo diYided into three div1sions, l'CIH'PH:Onfing the stock interests in the North. Central District. and the South. There will be created a Board to be called the Co­operative .!\Ieat Producers' Board, consisting of five representatives, one to be appointed by the Go,·urnnwnt, one to be appointed by the local auihorities concerned,. and three to be appointed by the District Boards, ono of >Vhom shall be chairman. There will also be crea tcd three District Boards-ono each for the Korth, Centre, and South-consist­ing of five reprC'SC'nt.atives, one to be appointed by the Gov: rnment, one to be appointed by the local authorities concerned, and three to be appointed by contributing producers, one of whom shall be chairman. The Board will have a definite policy, and its duties ,,ill include-

(a) Define a policy. (b) Arrange firianoe. (c) R0commend local abattoir areas. (d) Appoint a manager, etc. (•) Arrange sales and purchase stock for

interstate, frozen, and chilled meats and overseas export wher-e deemed advisable.

(f) Treat on owner's account. ((!) Provide e.1leyards where considered

necessary. The duti0s of ihe district board>< will be to co rry out the policy of collecting in forma­lion and aciing in an advisory capacit-- to the Central Board. I claim that the time i's opportune to put sucb a schcn1e into C•JWration. The industry has fr0qncntl, bee•1 twitted wiih doing nothin;< to assist· it~clf. A scheme is now put forward which c are prep~ued to back ourselves, and ~vo arc c·nl:~ askir!g the GoYernment to come in bchi-HI us by W~j- of a loan. It is up to tlw Go­Ycrnment to give us all the assistanc" they poP<sibly can to re-establi~,h an in1portant industry on a sound basis.

l\'Ir. RrcmnAx: The GoYcrntncnt offc>rcd to as~ist the Gulf scbcn1e, bnt tbc , chen1c \Yas Pet procced"d wiih.

l\Ir. BELL: The scbem0 I han} outlined is a 1nuch bigger one. It 11ropose.;; to find rnarkets oycrscas and dcv('lop 211 interstate trade.

l\lr. RrotwA~: The first portion of the scheme is aln1ost -word fot \vonl , .. ith tlvJ one: subm;ttcd from the Gulf >vhir:h the people \;ould not touch.

l\1r. BELL: The sch0n1c pl'OYidc for a C<>mpul'ory lcYy, antl if the people do not want it.. ':C dn not "·ant to folCO it down their throats. It. i~ nDi to lJC' of an arbitrar-.· nature.

The SEeR TARY FOR PrBLIC LA:-;f\~: You do not bclil'Ye in co!npu1s1on?

165-

Mr. BELL: I intend to support the nm0ndnwnt moYect bv the leader of the· Ol•Jlosition io the Aclcfrc's in Heply, bccouse ihe Govcrnn1e1.it lu1 YC be0n evading their 1 c ,,,ponsibilities in many ways financially. The true reflex of the opinion of the people of Queensland will not be shown if it is not carried bv ihie1 HotLe.

C\ir. F".\RRELL (llock.?amzlfon): I desire to add mv few remarks to the speeches that hs.Yc aL~c'Udy been ntad,: on the r\ddrc ~s in RPpl>", and on the n1otion of ce-nsure n1oved b:- the leader of the Opposition. I do not u•membcr any other occa"io1 while I havo !JOcn a member of thi, House and lmve fcllowed the debate' when such c'c tirade Df abuse and such destructive criticism has been offorcd by the memb"rs of the Opposi­iion as durin'l' this debate.

Mr. U. P. BAR~ES: What about the· ctiticisnt fron1 within?

:\fr. FARRELL: The hon. member can look after the troubles in his own party. \Yhen J>o doe" that, it will be quite time fo" him to de" l with ours. Suffice it to say, if he is of the opinion that hon. members on this side are not united, let hint take the advicP of the hon. member for \Yan·ego and attrrck one of us. He will thea sec how united 'Ne arc.

l\Ir. G. P. BARXES: "Coming eyentl cast their shadows."

'\fr. F ARRELL : The hon. member may critici::;:e and thrcnv innuendo s acro's the ChambN, but I might inform him that ye-sterday I had the privilege of meeting the president of the Australian Labour Party in his electorate, and he assured me that after the !lext election >vc shall have a Lobour member for \Yarwick. \Opposition­bughtcr.)

Mr. G P. BARXES: He is a Ycry hopefur n1an.

Mr. FARRELL: There again the loud noise denotes the same thing we gd when "\\'O sound th(' empty kerosene tin.

A GOVER:\ME»:T .i'.IE~!BER : A vacant mind. An 0PPOSJTJOK JY1EoJBER : That is tru .' of

you. :!Ylr. EDWARDS: Ye', we e,gree with that.

Mr. FARRELL: I want to congratulate­the Premier of this Stato~-

Mr. CoSTELLO: \Yhat about Charlic-Collins?

Mr. FARRELL: I want to congratulate· the Pre1nier on his very succp~r;ful misqion to the old country. I am sure that in saying that I mn expressing, not only my own­Yiews. but the Yiews of the members of my electorate in Rockhampton. and the views of the members of the party on this side' of tlw House.

'\Ir. COSTELLO: And the railway people thcr8?

::Ylr. FAHHELL: I am prepard to meet the l'<lilway JlHJp1e then:. and thf'y -'>·ill &CCC'pt lny O])inin11 in pr0ferenre to thP hon. 1T1cml1er'f', I 'Yant to ~hO\'\- 1ny o.pprPciatiDn of .,-h:lt ih<• Pn·micr has done in the home bnrl, and to ::;ho\' n1v lT!.tPr contemnt for those hon. lllPJnbcrs on' t.hf' c.thrr side 'of the Tfonsc <.YhD 1 nfor(~ tlw PrPmic·r lPH ·;or Eng-­la~d ndmn>Ylcc!gw1 thP difficulties of hie. 1.--.:,k nnJ. \Yi;;;hed him PY01'Y .-HC'('(·-.~. a11d Vi.-bn. on hi:') rr•tnrn. joinPd t1J~ pack of dingoc··· n1rd :ried to di~(l0t1it hin1.

'\Ir. FDV/AP.n·-: ] t 1~ you~· party who ha YE·

dcne that.

1l1 r. T', · rrell.]

106 Add1 ss in Reply. [ASSK\<IBLY.] Address tn Reply.

Mr. CoSTELLO: Is that the Lost you can think of?

:Yh. FARHELL: L<'t me deal >Yith some cf the eritici"m lPYellccl b hou. lll~~mlH~l'S f•ppr::~itc n'gnrdin

0 iht• co'nv('r:-;ion of the

loans in Eng-laml. I 'hall show how fa1· h')ll. mcJnbcr" c. )}1o.::itr• t1 l't' nre )ared to go it.t order to try' Ul-:!d l)'•liltle" h~n. mctllbcr,-: GU this side of th!' lioL;;C' and to ]:elirtle tlw Prc1nier in the in1portar~t undcrtakillO' in which lw lws jnst been wcccc,ful.

0

I\Ir. EuW.\RDS: You ar~-· now Ull:{\Yering the hGn. rnernbPr for South _Bri·sbauc.

l\h. FARHELL: I an1 '!" 'Jkin:c to the Deputy SlH'aker. not tn ih(' l JlL 1ncmhcr. If I wi:dtcd to .speak to anyo!Jc on thP other •.ide of l11e Hcu'C. I >YoLdd speak to a more intclligrnt n1an ihan thP hon. member.

Mr. Enw.\RDS: I l'C'turn the cornpliment. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!

:'vir. FARHELL: The hon. memb•r for Enogf,;cra in SlJC'aking on tile want of con­fidence motion, ~ncl also the hen. mc,n!wr fer Snndgatp \V ben Slh aking on the same suL­jrct, cxprr•ssed the vie•,- that tho Sl'tt,lcment of the Trannray Tru~t f'Llirn and the giving awvy. ae they tcrlllcd i1. of £400,000 ()f the people's mnncy, \\DS a factor in the sPttlP­rncnt lrhif'h the PrPnlicr accolllplishcd in London. The hon. rncmbcr for Enogg(~ra, \Then 1ncrdioning this sn'hjcct. cx,n·c ,"E d his

· \~icvvs ~ornPthing .J ikc thi~-,. JYiy Ollinion is thot we hav.:_ paid

nway in a spirit cf conciliation n1any thousand6 of pon!Hl-; too Hlllch for these trannntys."

He prodncccl figures to show that. taking- the tramways rig-ht fron1 thP be::;inning to the end-from the timo of the h01 c t1 ,1rns in Brisbane to the prcspnt time-the total cos: of building tho,:;;(• iran1s and of lHPRPnt :1!:;.'\f't-s was approximately £1.025.00J. Thr' hon. l11Pmher pointGrl ont that thf' sett!PmGnt was for the sum of £1,400.000. ,,-!Jich is con·ect. He madP the as,crtion that tlw £400.000 OYN .and above thP figun"' "l1ich he c,titllatccl a rcprP:-;entin&r the a~set . .; of the companY----

?\Ir. KERH: I did not e··timate the 11g-urP'. ?vir. F.\HRELL: V\''" pc• id awav as a

sort of bribe to allow the 0uccmlancl Go­yernmont to sdtk the n.attcr of the com·cr­sion lonn in London.

Mr. KERR: You should he correct in your statenlC'llt:'l.

::\!Ir. F.\HRRLL: That is oxactlv \Ybar the hon. nwmbcr ~.aieL be<'nn'ic I to~k 'it frorn "I-IansPrd." The hon. member said that the GOY('l'nrnent \rou},d not 1Pt t hP rnattnr go to thP, PriYy Council--that. harl thc.v done so, it wou1d Jwyo cost us £10.0JO or £20.000

:\[r. KFRR: Xo. Mr. FARRRLL: That is what You said. 2\llr. KERR: I ,,aid nothi1'g- of the kind.

:\Ir. F.\ R RELL : I'll b you a " t. mwr " thrrt von did. (Lnnght"r.) 'The hon. m0m· brr saicl-

" ThP G'lYPLT!JtH'nt o..hnult1 haYf~ i( trd th0 no"ition. and not ;.,dY(~n H\'n.,.; tl.)ll­sflnrl:" of ponnd" for thP nnrnose of trying to ··et onr C01lY0l3ion loan."

At 4.15 pm., Th0 S. K\KER r0sun1Pd the chair

l\fr. FAHRELL (llnr·klwmz;ton): The infPrC'nce is tlwre din•ct from the hon. mem­bcr that the· Tramway Trust litigation "'"'

[ JJ r. F arrell.

allowed to drop so as to pa vc the way for a SPttlemcnt of the conversion lo~n. Those arc the word< of the bon. nwmbcr, and the hon. n1cmber for Sandgatc. who spoke after­wards~ adoptl'd the 8a,mo line of nrgun1ent, bccnu~c hr .aid--

" There \vas an underRtrtHcEng come to b0t\YCt·n the GovrrnniCnt' ., representatives and the people \Vho were concluctinp; the a{fain; of tlw Tranl\\·ap Trn'it. and the pnrclwse pti('C' pla;·cd ;l Yl~r:, large part in the n0gotiations in London."

r'nl'ther on ho .:aiel-" Thcr0 ·was a tacit undcrsLt.nding that

litig-ation \Youlcl lw dropped on account of the settlement."

Lat' r he !'aid-.. AlTHngl'rrH'nts were HID de in Lon1bard

street that the pastoral muttt'r and tram. way purchftsc were to be put side by side, ancl the Prcrnicr yra-, eo llpdled to n1akc COlH.:es:sions in two dlrecl ions."

~,Ir. KEHR: You are out of order in quot­ing "' IIansnrd" novv.

::\1r. F ARRELL: The hon. member does not like the truth. If that does not tend to show that tho'e hon. members wantc\cl to pro\'<' that the Government had acted in 1,orne di;.-lwnourable way in ('lldea vouring to bring about a conversion of the loan by g-ivillg- away £400,000 to the Tramways Com­pany, I do not know just what those hon. members meant to convey. Both of those hon. nH'-mb~rs suggrsted that the valuation of the tram\:1' ·;s '.hould be ba,ed on the amount it aehw:!J,. cost the old co'mpany to establish thPm. le·~, of course, a c0rtain an1ount for depreciation-the an1otmt rnentionr:d br the hon. rnmnber fur Enoggent in his spench. That has been shown to b0 entirely wrong, because those who follmved th procedure in the Full Court before the case ever went to England will know that the Full Court in1rnediatL'lv ruled ont that contention, and that, of cotJI'oP, is further b1•.ckcd up by our cm·n Public \Yorks Lands Resumption Act, ·;yhirh JH·ovidr-~ that co1npcusaiion is to be based on the Yalue of the land when it is rc-um. d. 'J'he Tramwav, Act of 1882 specially prm·idcd that thi~ principle shall be applied to the tram>Yays in the cyent of l'l'"'"')ltion. The only blunder which I sec tho Governnlf'llt rnado in conncdio11 with thB litie:ation in London is that thov went to th0 ~ cxpens,· of gPtting such cn1iilent coun­sel ns Sir John Simon-prohablc the most eminent coun,el at th0 British bar-and ernp1o;~ing the scryiccs of Queensland'·'" lYlOSt Pmincllt barrister, :Mr. H. Il. Mucro,san. I am sure that. had the Premier and his Cabinet thonght the matter over. they would han~ dropped ~uch e1nincnt 1ncn in the h'gal >Yorlcl, and taken tho ad,-ic" of tho hush LnYyC'I'S fron1 Enoggera and bandgaic. Sir ,Jnhn Simon has been advi~ing the Queens­land Go.-crnmont on the matter of the tram­\vay purdwse ever since 19111--thP ti·me when this mntt-:•r \t::ts first brought forwnrd in this Jiousc~and his opinion. ctec-urding to the rep01·ts published, was t 11at the purchase moiH'V 11ou~cl haYe to be rn1culrd.cd on the acsun1ption that the tramway was comtructcd dnrin~· such period prior to the date of r< sumption-1st January. 1923-as would have enabled it to haYe he<:n co1npletrd on tlu:t date. In making this calculation tho pri< {' of n1aterial and v. ages prevailing dur­ing- that period would haYe to be taken into consideration. \Yhon ono take' into con-

Address in Reply. [G AL'GUST.] Arhln iS in Reply. lG7

sideration that dnring the three years prior to the resumption of the tramways b" the Brisbane Tramway Trnst the cost of mat0rials was high;r than it had been for a considc•rablc tinw, and th.ti tho wages paid during that period w"ere higher than thev had been for a considcrubcc time, it naturally follows ihat if the GoYerrrncnt, i'ctine· for the Tmet. had taken this case to the Privy Conncil, tbcre could onlv bo one conelusion­ihat the con1pcn,c,atim~ -wouLl have been hundrrds of thousands of pounds above the an1ount given under the tcrn1s of the scttlc­In(~nt.

Mr. KrxG: I was responsible for the amend­ment of the Act which w·ould have enabled tho parties to settle it without expensive litigation.

'Yir. FARRELL: I tak<> the hon. nwmbcr's \Wrd for that. and I am mr0 that is backed np hy the opinion of Sir ,John Simon. which I have just quoted. T am glad tho deputy leacler of the Opposition has ondorsed the vi w that the cost "\vould have been cnonnou:s had the cas~ been allowcrl. to go to the Privy Council.

M1·. KING: The costs of litigation would ha vo been Y<'ry heavy.

Ylr. FARRELL: And the amount of com­:p0nsation would haYe been hcayy.

Mr. KING: I do not know about that.

:VIr. F.\RRELL: Sir John Simon further 'C'Xprc~scd tlw oninlon that the Brisbane Tram­way Trust would have to pa:c the cosh of the Bri.-.banc Trarnways Company in filing its claim before th Land Court, and he c,ti­matcd that amount at £50,000. Yloreo', •r, the Trust would have to pay its own costs, which he estimated "ould amount to £50,000, or a total of £100.00~ Dn-r and above what they have paid through th setthm1ent which has been rnatlc. Evl•r--onc kno\v~ that if the case had ~·one to thr' Pri,--,- Conncit tho cost would h<lYc been cnormOu", and the ·cas; eventual],- would ha,-c had to lw re­ferred back to the Land Court of Queens­land, :u1d 0xpcrts would have had to be brought from all parts of Australia to give their opinion of the Brisbane tramway system. t hns adding to the costs.

The SBCHE'nRY FOil Pc;m.rc LAKDS : The eosts of tlL' Brisbane Tnnnwa;. s Cornpany WC'l'C £50,000.

Ylr. FARRELL: That is the amount I just D1f'ntioncd. I can n11otC' a s.in1ilar r9_se ln Toronto, wh{'l'C comPPnsation 'vas given to tlw pxtent of £3,080.000 and the costs <>mountc·d to £750.0JO r.:cirlP!Jialh-. I mi§Slli rn''ntion that I h1..ve some per:o;onal lnlO'S'­

l{:clgc of the costs of litigation. Tbc verdict ag-ainsL me '"''' ""50 and the costs oyer £600. Sir Jrhn Sirnon also app!_'arod for the J3r1ti:'lh GoYernmcnt in a sirnilar case: to that of the Bri:-banc TnlnnYa.;. s ronllHtlly--that is, the :\'ational T:l"phone C'ompan_v. whose b;;ci­ness was takc11 over b.v the British Govern­rncnt nnd nationalis0d. and on his ad, ice a settlPmcllt v. -_t:'\ cfl'e(~tcd. It was on his •rrhioc also that the sdtkment in connec­tion with the Brisbane• Trainway-s C'mnpauy was c:ffcctPcL lie has lJcen backed un in hi~ opinion by Brisbane's leading barrister, ::VIr. H. D. ::'vlacrossan; so that the argument of my hon. fri. ne! O]Oposite that "£400,000 was paid a-\ uY bv the Government in considera­tion of th8 co'Jn-prf:ion of the loans in England is so much balderdash. I rose priucipallv frJt' the purpose of praYing that the as>crtioD which the hon. member made. and which

was h, arti]:l, applauded at the time, \\as wrong, and thnt th01'0 wa"l absolutely no con­JJC~otion what,eyer between the tram\Yay case •illd thr• convorsion loan. "\s a matter of fact, when the tram\\ay settlement was effected in London, the PI mier had left London and ''n.ts in Paris.

:\lr. KERR iuterjected.

Mr. FARRELL: He had been in Paris no fc•es tl!an a fortnight-I tlwu!,;'ht the hon. member \YOuld bite. May I also mention a 'tatenwnt which appu,red in tho London ·· Tinh'S " ? The " Tirr10S " has been quoted b-.- mY friend, 'o that it will not be out of piacn ·to refer him tG it also. That paper rr·ported that Lord Dunedin, one of the mPmbl'r3 of the PriYy Council bdore whom this f t~e was to have been tried, suggested to the parties that a settlement might be • Jectrd, and even o!fPrcd to act as arbi­trator. After the scttlcnwnt was effected, the Pri1·y Council compJin,cnted the parties Gl1 the oettlPment they had arriYed at. On dw "-hole, it is very clc,ll' that the settl-e­ment was· not onlv reasonablr' but indeed fayourable for the' Tram\1av Trust. Their rounsel. ~Ir. l\farros~an, said he thought so, too. I do not intr,nd to deal anv further with that matter. I hope I haYe {n·oyed to the satiefaction of the hon. member that his doubts had no fouEdation.

Mr. KERR: You have not rderred to my peerh at all.

:\Ir. F ARRELL: I have not; I wanted to b:' kind to the hon. member.

:\Ir. KERR: You have not proved anything at all.

Mr. F ARRELL : It is hard to prove any­thing to one who is very del).se.

Now I w mt to refer to the wonderful r•nthusiasm which has been suddenlv worked up amongst members of the Opposition in the interests of the public senants of Queens­land. I remember the time when I, as a public servant, worked under Governments n)prescnting the party oppo;:;itc, and when, ~ after pa>sing five or six exanrinations, I "·as paid the remuneratiYe amount of £2 per ,,eck.

:i\lr. CosTELLO And it was too much for you then.

Mr. FARRELL: Hon. members opposite thought it was too murh then. I remember the time when I and every other public ~Prvaut "-ere afraid to voice our opinions. That '.r,.s when Iron. members opposite sat on thi•. side of the House, and it is strange for 1n0 to hear th0 Opposition part'" express~ ing, r< garding the public servants, the opinions to which. they haye recently given ·oice and praising them to the extent they

haYP. I an1 sure from n1y knowledge of the nublic senants out,ide that thev will not be misled by the speeches of hmi. members in thi" House.

Mr. 2\Ioom: interject-"d.

l\Ir. F ARRELL: The hon. member will have to justify his position outside. \Ye han' justir,cd ours by being returned. Hon. members opposite have, of course, taken ndvanragc of a suppm~·~d cleavage in this partv for electioneering purposes, ancl elec­tioneering purposes only, but I want to g·iye them a few figures \vhich wiil show them in 'l YCl'Y poor light indeed in comparison with the Go1·ernment in power to-day.

lion. n1cmbnrq_ opposit0 have rc'fcrrcd to the recent disturb~n1cc- in cmlnrrhon "·ith

JJlr. Farrell.]

168 Addres.o ;n Reply. [}.SSE:'.lBLY.1 AdcZ,,-ss · RrJ;ly.

t:te Queen .1ancl ]JOlict>. I rnndidly admit that iho \vurkcrs of Quctm~land

[4.30 p.m.] outeid•- of the pul>iic scn-ie2 arc not paicl ;::ufficient, and I athnit

that no Go\~l'rnmellt han~ doup DlOl'C for the puLlioC. scrYi(<' throughout Australia than the Qul'ClF.land Labour GoH:>l'nlnent haYP dorH~.

:\lr. Cosn:LLO interjected.

:'Ir. FARRELL: The lion. g __ ntlcman ,,-ill ha \'O an opportunity lat<'l' ,,on of pn'~:aring a spct!Ch i£ he ha6 brains c•nongh to do .:.o.

1\Jr. CosTLLLO: Guts arc wanted rnDrc than brain'".

Mr. FAHHELL: Perhaps they are to the hon. gentleman, but in this Honse brains ltrE' what is required. Let us take the pay granted to the Police Force> f'lnc(~ thi~ rwrty c rno int-o power, and con1parc it 'vith the rate::- paid \Yhile hon. HH ,nt)ers op11ositu \'.·ere in p0wer, when the pulice were not even a lJo,-rcd to forn1 a union of tllcir O\Yll in ordt~r to placl? theil' clain1s Lclon' the Arbi­tration COurt and get the sal11·ied they arc cnjoyi-~lg io-day. In 1915 a senior "'ergeunt receiYcd 12~. 6d. per day, an cl to-do y he i~ recci Ying 18s. lld. 11er clay. or an incrcu ,p uf 50 pe1~ cent. A ~ct·~·cu nt's l .·.1y has bec>n increased from lls. 3d. per day in 1915 to 17s. lld. per day in 1924, or an itrcreaec of 59 per cent. An rting sergeant's pay hus be<'n ir,eroaced from 103. 4d. lKr day to 16,. lld. Jl•Cr day, or an increase of 66 iL r cent. A ro1~·::,tablc-taking tho.sp \vith an r:Yerage of ten years' serYice--has had hjs pay incrcu~ed front 9~. 6J. per day to 14" 0d. per day. or an incrca,c cf 53 per cent. All these things have bePn accon1plished. not as a ·direct l'L'JUJ.t of any . .:\et pas-:,,d b~· this Parlium0nt other th,-n th0 ludtFtrial Arbi­tration Act, \Vhich the GoYcrllnlcnt pasq-'d dwrtl v after thcv came into office. \V c have gmnt;,d to the p'olirc and to the other public scrvantf; of QuPensland the right-I recog·~ nise it as nothing else but a right-to

•approach the Arbitration Court to have these increases granted to them. Further, the rent allov once to tho police has been

· incr'-a-,cd from ls. per day to 2;;;. per ·day. or an increase of 100 per cont. The plain rlothe" allowance has been jncreusod fron1 1:'. llf.'l' day to 1,, 6d. pc·r day. or an incr0a::;:c of EO per {'Ollt.; cncl the a!lnual lPavc l1as been increased from two weeks to four \VC'f'ks. or an ir:creF~SP of 100 per cent. An addiiionnl :-:ix months' lc'aye has lwen grantr-cl on r0acbing the a?P o~ rf'tirPJnPnt. The p0lice ha\'C brr:> gT utecl the best 'UJWr8.ll­nuatiol! schcm0 cxi~tiPg- for police anywhe-re in Austr:llia. and that is admitted bv the men themselves. Th ·y have heen gr.anted an Ap]wal Board, aNI. abOH' all things. th>' right to forin a union and the right to .approach the Arbitration .r 1ourt to H"Curc the benefit~ tlnt I Inn• mentioned. \Yh:ct is the w·c of hon. 1n01l1bC'rs opposite nuvy try­ing to ( ,unouf:Irtgc tlJP po.:'irion. and zDme for­'' arc! as the chamnion' of the poli·.e when dlt.'.V knu','c that wlw~t thPy werr in pO\Ycr­and in pOW('r for fiftv vear~-thcv did not do ihc right thing b~ 'tl;,-.. poli-:c?'

l\f l·. r:EitR: Tht hon. ·:n0tnLcr rnud rf·:nem­bcr th:1t compnrati\~t~Js the Qu0cnf'land police \vorr> 'hc:th l' off in thm.;p d<.t\·s tha11 the:\: are to-c1A.y. \Go\·prnn1e:1t langhtn·.'l

:\Ir. F ARRELL : Let me ,LCJ<-or ll't the hon. member. if he likcs··-ask tlw poli<·c of Queensland to go bark to the conditions which they enjoyed nnde-1· his GoYernn1cnt,

[Mr. Fan·ell.

and sec whether they would agree to it m· not.

:Yir. KERR: That is not the question.

:11r. FARRELL: I a-n absolutdY certain that they are prepared to throw· in their lot with the Labour party, as they have done, and fetain the rights thP: httve got, ,,·ith the future rig·ht funher to better their conditjons.

Mr. KERR: J u,t look at the condition& of the noli cc in :";' ew South \ValH under an a11ti-Labour G-oYernnicnt.

;11r. FARRELL: I will leave the police, and come to the Department of l:'ublie Instruction. There I find that in 1915 :r Class III., lJiYision 1, ie.rcher was paid £15(} a year. while in 1924 he is paid £285-an incrcas0 of 80 per cent. A Class II., Divi· sion 1, teachL·r in 1915 was paid £210 a year; now he i-, naid £350 a vear-an increase- of 66 per cent.· The Class f, Division 1, teach:1· in 1915 was paid by a GoYcrnment which 1 he hon. mt'mbers opposite rep re' ,-,ut £270 a year; to-day he is paid £410--or an increase; of 52 per ccnL I wish to point out that these figure' do not include the zone allow­UIH cs. This. is an allowance that was not paid previously. The zone allowance& range from £10 to £90 a year. The rent a.lJowancc to teachers has abo been increased right throughout Quecnslana. The teachers have been giYen an Appeal Board to which the"«· can appeal in regard to promotion to the> different positions in the State. The Queensland T0achcrs' l'nicn, like the Police "Cnion, has been recognised by this Govern­ment. and the teachers haYe been given the power to approttch the Arbitration Court­when they choose, and every facility has been put in their way to reach the Court.

Mr. CLAYTO~: They are dissatisfied.

Mr. FARRELL: The hon. member-cannot quote a case wherp the Queensland Teachers' Union has been hold up.

l\Ir. CL.\ 1 roo; : I cay they arc dissatisGed. Mr. KERR: They don't like tl:eir new

Minister.

Mr. FARRELL: They hctY<' been granted decent working conditions. Another thing: which has neYer happened under a Queens­land Labour Government. but ·vhich oceurre.l lime after time when · th0 hon. rne.nbers opposite " re in power, is that no officers rceeiYin.'l' the basic wage have been refused their automatic increases. Past Governments not on!,· did not giYe the t achers a decent wag<', but ·time after time they withdrew the· automatic increases from them when they were cmitLd to them.

l\Ir. KERR: You are looking at one side of the case and not at another.

l\Ir. FARRELL: It is untrue to say that the Goverr,mcnt stopped the auto natic i])crease.s.

Mr. KERR: It is quite true. l\Ir. F ARRELL: Let me turn to other

branches of the service. A clerk i ., anv of tile other Government departments in l9i5 a.'t the age of twNJty-onu ;:, ears was paid £120 a venr. ='Jaw that same c]('rk rise" to £265 a "year--an incre.,"se of OYCT lOO per cent. T.argc increases haYe a]i'o be0n granted to ihc other profe.osional officers. I find, on t<.1ki11g the railway :3crvicc, thnt on an ~;vcragc the cn1ployt'r~ haY£~ received. an Jncrca'e m wages of 95 per cpnt. nght tin·ough the whole of tlw seniec, whilst the increase 1n the cost of Eving during the·

Address m Reply. (f3 AUGGST.] AcldTess in Reply. 169

period has been 48 per rent. 'That shows that the raii\Vay workers, the public sf'nants, the school teari1crs and the police througl::out Quc"nsland have benefited considerab[_,. as [1

result' of Labour administration. I do not say that they have reached their millennium, that theY have got more than they are entitled to, or that the,. ha;-e rcache<1 that etage where they ought to stop. The Arbitration Court is stili open to the• public 'ervant.s of Queensland to approach if tlwv wish. I am opposed to the Go\"C•rnmcnt er this House establishing what they might doterrnine to be a VYage for the work0r., of Queensland. It is a matter for the Arbitration Court.

::Vlr. KFRR: Did you read the "Tclegnlph"" to-day?

:Mr. FARRELL: 2'\o; I am too busy look­ing after the intrrosts of the >Yorkers. I am not opposed to the right of the unions to approach tlw "\rbitration Court for further increases. That right has b0en given them bv this Go,-crnmont, and I stand wholE'' hcartedly for it. That right was refused by hon. n1f'ITILl)l''c· opposite.

I wonld like to rdoe tn the question of the ,!.4-hour week and al>o other matters. although m:v time is short. "Cntil the workers of Queensland r0alise that it is ncccssary for them to emure that we get a FedNal Labour Government in Australia. it is impossible to achieve a 44-hour week. The Fedural Constitution >vill haYe to he widcJwd. also the scope of the Federal Arbi­tration (;ourt, to allow of the inteoduction of a uniform 44-hour week throughout the Commomvcalth. The workers will never r0ach their objt'ctive until they concentrate on that issu0.

It is a woll-kLown fact that Queensland will not be able to compete with the State of New South \Val0s, if we ha>"e a smaller number of hours while they are unckr a Tory Administration which is making the hours greater and greater at the expense of the Queensland manufacturers. I think the solution of the problem lies in getting into power a Federal Labour Govemment. so that the Federal Arbitration Act mav be amended. and so ensure that there shalf be a 44-hour ''eek not only for the >Yorkers of Queensland but for the workNs thro11:chout Australia.

LAP.OUR J'.fE1IBERS: Hear, hear !

:Yir. FARRELL: Before I leave this matter of the public service. I wish to quote opinions of hon. members oppositr> and some of their mpportcrs, giving their views of the public servants outside this House'. During the last election in Rockhampton the candi­date who opposed the hon. member for Fitzrov .. ,,_ras Mr. Grant, n Ine111ber of th8 "Cnited party. He eaid regarding public sC'rvants-

" Und0r past GovernnlPnb-.. ·with all their sins. never did the public scnants show themsdve''' so debased and degraded as 1 hPy arc to-day."

Mr. FRY: Thrrt might be one man's opinion. but it is not my opinion, or the opinion of Ill'' party.

:\fr. FARRELL: It is the opinion of one of your rep re_, enta ti ves.

l\fr. FRY: That is misrepl'C,entation. The SPEAKER: Order! Mr. F c\RRELL: L<'t me quote the opinion

of one of the hon. mcmlwr's pah, if that is nearer the mark. The hon. member for

Sandgate. speaking at Rockhampton during the by-election campaign, said-

" The public servant and the railway worker wiil be quite safe in the hands of the Queensland United party. The public ~ervant who vvorkcd up in his position in the ordinan wav and became proficent will have ~othing to fear, but the men who wiil have to look out arc those who have been pitchforked into their jobs since there has been a, Labour Govern­nlent."

The SECHETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Victimisa, tion!

~\fr. F . .\RRELL: Surely the hon. member for Kurilpa will not desert the hon. member for Sand gate?

::\Ir. FRY : I am not responsible for the hon. memb<:r for Sandgatc. \Vhere he inc1ud(~~ n1Y na1ne he has to answer to me.

:i\Ir. HYN.ES: You are totally irresponsible.

::\Ir. FA,RRELL-" The men who will have to look out

are tlw·c who have been pitrhforked into their jobs since there has been a Labour Govern1ncnt."

There is the stat!'ment made by the hon. member for Sandgate during the Rockhamp­ton bv-election. I could quot·o from the ·• Brisbane Courier " and the "Daily Mail" instances of where the party opposite stood for reducing t.he railway service, and f.c;>r 'a< king one-third of the men engaged m order to make the railways pay.

J'.Ir. FRY: Quote from those papers.

::VIr. FARRELL: All right. The "T-ele­graph'" of 23rd February, 1921, had the fol­lowing:-

" Thirty-three per cent. is the popular reckoning of the overmanning in the rail way service at present. It may be a hardship to woed ant one man in every three. and not only do this but make the other two men do his work as well as their own. But that is one of the cer­tainties of the railway or of any other business undertaking."

ThP Brisbarw "Courier" of 24th February, 1921. said-

" Nobodv can doubt the wisdom of re­ducing the service by one-third as sug­g·ested."

The " Daily Mail" of 29th October, 1920-" Our taxation is imposed to foster an

ann:v of State parasites." The Brisbane "Couri .,., of 17th August, 1921, said-

,, It is surclv time that some Cabinet ::\'Iinist.er summed up enough courage to tell the Gov-ernment's emplo-,-ecs that Queensland could do vcr.v weil without them and that public funds must not b.o utilised to keep them in easy employ­nlcnt.''

;\fr Vo,,·les at Gatton, as reportod in the ~'-Q:I<:en~ia~;l Times'' of 4th October, 1920, wid-

" Th~re were 3,000 men in the R'_til­wav Department doing unrcproducbv 3

wo;·k-doing nothing at all. ;yJr. Vowlcs added, ' The Raih ay Department should not be a bcnovolent institution.'"

Mr. FRY: That wa" denied when it was mentioned in this House last seosion.

::Vlr. FARRELL: I wish to take the oppor­tunity of saying ihat I appreciate what the

]fir. Parrrll.]

170 Address ·in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address ·i ' Reply.

Prf'rnicr has donoJ and in showing up in their trur· lig·ht members of the Opposition regard­illg tho public servant; in Queensland.

GOVERNMENT ME~!BF.RS: IIoar, hear! Mr. NOTT (8tanlcy): The hou. member

for Hockhampton has giYcn the various in­Cl'C'a~~··s in quite a nun1bcr of departn1cmto;;, but he might have made his tahle complete by alco giving· the amount Q£ the increase, during the same period, to gentlemen who have enjoyed the privil<'ge of members of Parliament. because I thiuk that has amounted to somcwhr•re about 60 per cent. It rnig-ht bu interesting for hon. nteinbcrs to know somc•thing of th< opinion of the rail­way employees in Rockhampton who aro supporters of the hon. tn ·mber. In the " Telegraph" of yesterday vcc find a report rca-ding-

'·Rockhampton, 6th August. " The largest meeting was held yeo.tcr­

day at th" railway workshops in the lunch hour, nearly 400 being pre,ent. Mr. G. Hume pr _si-ded, and outlined the objects of the meeting.

"Mr. G. A. Camp, divisional secretary of the Australian Railway Union, in addn't~sing the gatheritig, said no sane man would sa_y 5 per cent. e,hould have been taken from th m. To put it plainly they had been _,old bv the Government, wh~, as represent-ativ;'S of the working class, should see that the basic wag' was something that would give the worker the right to li,-c in decent comfort, even in the cnpitalistic s_ystm the0 were living under. If they wore going to lie down and tamely allow this or any other Go­vernment to break faith with the "-orking class, who were r _ sponsible for putting thom where thee were, the: wore not worthy of the name of organisation.

"Mt·. D. McDonald ,,_aid it was time they brought matt,•rs to a hea.c] with this 'palliative dope Governn1cnt.' "

I qnot0 that to show what the railway workers of Rockhampton arc thinking at the present rnorncnt.

Mr. HARTLEY: That is the el<'doratc \vhere we got a big majorit}.

Mr. NOTT: . At the opening of the last sesswn of Parlwmcnt I stated that, as the GovC'rnmcnt ha_d comp iJa-c;\:; '"ith a larg'C' majority after N!ceiving· certain illRtruction\, at the Rmu Park Conference, we might ex­pect a certain type of l0gislation. I admitted at that timD that I considered it v, as the duty of the Government to place that kind of kgislation on the statute-book, which they have done; and at the prcs.·nt time we arc reaping the -disastrous effects of that particular lr'gislation. This afternoon "''' heard the Secretary for Public ·works g·ct up and offer what I slwuld call a very care­ful and artful apology ou behalf of the Cabinet for failing to stand to their guns and <-Hry out the promis_s they had made during the last election campaign. He men­tion,-,d the fact of the 44-honr week, and state-d that they had agreed to put it on th-­businoss-shoot for this session ; but thcv re­cognised that it poSRib]y w-ou]c] not Come into effect fc;r some cousidcTahlc time.

Last scseion we had eomo leg-i--lation put on the stutuLe-book in roganl to the Agri­cultural. B :nk, unci \d1f'n it \Yas clocidecl to ino-r Joe the amount available, from £1.200 to £1,700 the Govcrntnellt gav0 us to under­stand that very sh0rtly after the i1assagc of the Act thP_y wou:d .1dminister it so that the

[ lfi1·. Parrelt,

rnonPy would be available \Ve find that that promu-c ha~ cvt n yet not bern honoul'cd. Cnforhtnately, many m· n who expected to gPt aB.si'3tallce under it are in the air, and do not kncnv \YhPrc they Btand owing to arrUnge­UH'lL' ,,~hi eh th{1 V have Hl<Hle ~tnd their cxpect.ations not having b0on fulfilled. 'The SccretJrv for PLrblic \Yorks -tat·d that he bclic\l'Cftbat "\Yf' can judge vvhat muy happen from ~~hat 1U:l3 happened to siJuilul' parties in othPr State\~. I agn•o that in Jllany cases W" c·a11. If we· lcok at :\e\Y South \Vales. and sec '·''hat h 'S haplWllf'd to the Labour pc:rty thPre. we can irnflginP what 1vill hap­pen to the Labour party here.

:VIr. RY.\K: \','ha' happened to tho Y;orkr-rs in New South \'i'ales when the Labour party \Yent Dut?

11r. KOTT: In looking at the prograrnrne which is to be carried ont thi~ :;;cssion, ono cannot but be struck with the great number of arn(:nding Bills, .and that td lll~' 111ind is sin1ply the natun.Jl consequcnf'u of the ·use ( ," the " gag" and proxy voi in g. The v< rimts Jnea;;;un·~ \VPrc not gin_'ll sufficient nttention and di~-cussion, othcnvi~e n1any of tlwsc amending· nwasurc;; \Vou1d not bo l'<'ljltirPcl at the present tinH'. The proof of the ptNJding is in thf~ eating of it, and I can sav that time has been on the side of the Opposition. Iu connection with pretty IH .trly e\·erything \YC strl'~~·('d~cprtainly our adYic0 >YaS absolutclv unhccclPd-time has proved tlwt we wPre ju.'3tifiPJ in our crificiRnl, and thC' Qoyornmcnt \<;'Otdd baye been lwttet· off to--cl'tv if thev had listcnBd to our aclvif'{'. Tb0n ihPr0 is~ tl-w rase of the so-called ·'repudiation" legislation and the r·otton kgi.slation. Those are t\YO things in comwr-tion with which the Government have br en brmwht to book, and there n re many dhcr thin~s which arc g·oing to be disastrous.

Yc;;;t·•rdfly it was partlrularl~T interesting to hrar th0 Pr"mif'r. To Ill\' 1nind, his addr:'S:-::1 1,,·ai'i practically his "Sl\:an song" to tlw inlp{b:-"ible crn);k:') in hi.;;; nartF. VVc find that at the present time the Premier is simply a Yictim of the Frankenstcin which hL' hos been one of the parties iu building up. .]u~t as thr lah: ~Ir. Ryan \YCls a victim of this same Frankenstein, so I think the Pr··_rnif'r ha.oJ ('VI ry chnJIC(' or lJC';.'Oming the next Yici im. ::,ra,1v of ne bnlif'YP that whpu l\h. R van left the· Qneensla ml Labour pa rt_v it wn' ·1, eau''' he harl ach-i,cd tlw part_v that t1lerr· wa:~ certain 1 gislaHon which they wen~ rroin(r to enart ·which would ruin Qucpnsland ;nd ~,neck the party. He was told that he l1ad bC'tt r get out, and that if lw '.\as not pre11 arcd to 11ass that legi~lati.on. somponc Plsc >muld. The present Prcnncr took Mr. Hvan'~ plarP. und said he \YU6 pn~pared io d<; it. Hut llOIY the Prernicr has got a little further alor~g· th0 roac1 and ha." co~11e to thP conc]u,ion that he must now put on the ln·akc. if he can. The qU('"Iion for him to d('{_'icln will be -whci her }le ( 'lll. To 111. ~ mind thr: Premier and the ~-t:Cl'{'i u· for Pub1ir T.. -n.d''· :knr-w before th0 Iort;lr-r \V{1 llt to Enn·land that hP us goinr.( to ~iY(1 th0st~ ('(ltl~·r .·.imF, be< aus0 hP \Yas :;:ati~ 1f'd in his o\vn mind thnt it '."'"a~ Jl(W\1 ~'· ar~~ to do ~o, aud I lwlien' th 1t h<• even knf'\Y that when he

"' tPlliJw the nwmb0rs of !lis partv that he \Yfl; LOt g.~)ing to do anything of the kind.

}Ir. HARTLEY: How do you know what he J.o~cl thr•tn'

1\Ir. J\'OTT: He has been abroad sinoc. and to n1v 1nincl the co1npro1nise ha'j not been a willing compron1is0 or anything of

Address in Reply. [6 AUGU~T.] Address in Reply. 171

-the kind. The Premier has been compelled to do what he ha~ done. and that is one of the r·Pasnns why I do not, as n1any hon. rnembcrs have dono, a1tog.ethcr congratulate tlw hon. gentleman on his >York. I think a man should be ('Oll!lTatulatcd whrn he does so1ncthing voluntarily and off his 0\,7 11 bat, Tather than when he ha' been compelled to do it-as I am pretty certain the Premier 1un~ lwt'n cornpcllcd lo giv(~ \;ay in nrder to ;;et this money. Yet, after making the arrane:cment in London and giving away a ·considerable amount, ono of his first state-111Pnt-s on his arrival here \Vas that he has giYC'll 11cthing a\Yny. The 0xplanation seems to be that he wets doing his best to create a favourable atmosphere.

J\Ir. H\RTLEY: The only thing that would h:rye satisfied vou was the repeal of the 1920 Land Act.

:\Ir. "'OTT: That is whv the SPcrctarY for Public Lands at certain· public or sern1-publio meetings, feeling that he could not justify the Premier, advised people who wanted to know what had been done to "\Yait and see "-\V1Iich \vas very good adYicc-hoping that time would assist the Premier. To my mind, it is Queensland that is to be congratulated upon the turn \Yhich -events have talmn. in that we find that the Pr·cmicr, as head of the Labour Government, i' now more or lees controlled. Reading hietory. we learn that ;'>Jero ftddled while Rome burned, and probably the Premier .'ardonically smiled while he "·hittlcd away ihe cr·odit of Queensland for many years. But on his last visit to England he perhaps ~a\v the error of his \Vavs, and \Vas forced to agree to anlcnd some of the legislation ~Yhich has been doing surh a great amount nf harm. Ho claimed yesterday that he had ·dis~ipated quite a lot of misunderstanding when in England, and that that "as the ·came of the trouble. He also quoted an American cablegram which he had receiv.ed as proof that he had dissipated quite a lot Df rnisunderstanding, and as offpring him ·congratulations. It seen1s to n1c that it merely prayed that conditions had improved considerably in America, and indicated that in America RS well as in England the ·'Repudiation" Act and the other Acts of this Government had created a bad impres­Sion.

The httN part of the cablegmrn \Yh'ch the hon. gentleman read only goes b show that the American b:.nkers came to the con­dusion that the Premier was goi:1g b get money from them, and they wero not back­\Vhrd in trying to ameliorate the conditions

in America. so as to lead the [5 p.m.] Prcrnir·r io believe that he would

bo able to get American money at a much chca per rah than harl alread.v been offered. There is no doubt that thc,­would have liked to ha H' orn;· of that loan. Something has heen 'nid about the loan being m·ersubscribecl. That onl;· shows that the people, not only in Australia, but in other parts of the world. rcrogniso the tre­D1f'ndou~ rc-;onrccs of Qncf'nsh_nd, ar:.d 'vcrc prepared to advance a. considerable amou:'t of monr·.\ if it was l'Cf]Uired, prm·idccl .1 •tab] • GoYcrnment were in pO\VCr. It sho'''S clcarlv that they werP not prcpnre•l to adYa'Jce an,· money until the Premier hrrd mad" amends and J1acl comP to an agre·'ment with th<>m. The Prc1nicr has made this agrct:mer~t Yrith the London financiers, and has arrive:) back here, and is no·.~,- in charge of the GoYcrn~ ment. Is it a fair thing, or is it carrying

out the spirit of that agr ·ement, m: is it not bord0rin0' upon sharp pract_il Ol' l'Ppndiat ion, to agree not to rat::;;(' the r•astoral rents for a furrhr·r term. a·:d then tn raise tho railwa} f<tros and fr:•ig·hh? The Cabinet have decided tint thcv ' rnnot get- incrcasf'd rents out of thr> pastoralist~. and they sn,y, " Let ns take it ont of thcn1 in incn:ased railway frt:ights."

Let me now deal with the 44-hour \V('<'k (jlH!stion. I bclic:YO that the rwoplc who are dmPotuing for a 44-hour wcrk 'lJl(l for t'tr: lifting of the 5 )Wr cont. rorhctiocc an• perfectly justified in fighting for and expect-· inr,· both those thing·s, because wlwn the. Co­'· t l'llJnont \Yt'nt to t hP eonn1 ry thcv f'. id tLo.v were tlw representatins of the jwoplc. and they '"<plairwd to the workers that the \YorkPrs were the pcopl0 who \YCH' doing tht~ V\'Ol'k1 and thr-v should exp0ct an incrcas1) 1n agt'~ and oth0r considt•ratio:ls from the partv. They premised to give the orkors an increase in wages and a rcc1uction in hours if thcv were elected, and in face of that, I behcYc ihat the people whc) are r:ow darnoueing for thosp inrreasc3 are justlv entitled to expect thPm from this Governn1ent.

The Ho;m:. SECRETARY: \Vhat abont your Sl1 gar Jands over in East ~\frica?

.'VIr. NOTT: This Government c.mnot hurt them, thank God! (Government interrup­tion.) The legislation dealing with the cctton industry was placed on the statute­book last session only throug-h the pigheaded­ncso and ,tupidity of tho Gon·rnrnent-I think that is the kindest thing that nn be said about thorn. The Secr,'tan: for Agricul. t me has been particularly definit·c in all hi< statements concerning the cotton industry. and has consist entlv rnfus0d to listen to the representations rnade b,";,· the gro\vcrs.

The SECRETARY FOR PrBLic Tx:·Tnrc-rrox: You thank God bccaqse we cannot interfere with your black labour in Africa.

:Ylr. ;\;OTT: I do not know whv that should he' clone if there is nothing t~ fear. \/arious kiJJds of thr0at·; were used that if the grmn·rs did not do this or that, they -would be prosecuted. Certain bogies haYe been put up, and n1isreprcsentations n1ade on diff·erent ou as ions in regard to this cotton legislation. The statement has been 1nade in regard to pc~ts. •· Look out, or the boll \Yecyil will be here:" I find, on look­ing through the " Year Book " fron1 the Dppal'tmcnt of Agriculture of the United States of America, that they look upon the pink ball worm "ith greater fL,ar than the ,,-(\('\'il.

The SECRET!l.RY FOR Pl'BLIC Jxf'THT'CTfOX: You would sooner haYe black labour than the boll wenil.

:\Ir. KOTT: During the period that the cotton k•gislation -was pas~iug through this I-Iou~'~, I rcn1cmbcr n1cntioning that various paragraphs had been published in the Press ,,~-hJ,·h wc:rc n1islcading not onl~c to t-he public, but to the growers. Since tha.t time this misr·cpre.;<,cntation has continnpd in different journals throughout the State and also in the "Agricultural Journal." The " Agricul­htnll ,Journal" ·was gnilty of gro'<:i n1isrcpro­~cntation in its Fcbruarv nun1hPr. In t-hat munb: there was ,l sort· of sub-leader which stated-

" At the last confercnc·e of the Ameri­can Cotton Growers' Association. held in October lost, resolutions bearing on the yexed question of cotton ratooning

JJlr. Nott.]

172 Address in Reply. [.ASSE~IBLY"'".] Addrcs3 in Rrply,

were, carried. Preventi'e methods of checking the winter hibernation of the boil V\'ecvil, recommended bv the Federal Pxpert engaged in boil ":'eevil experi­n1cnts, Yfere a·dopted. These experi­ments, supplemented bv }lractical results obtained bv surcessh;l cotton-oTowers pro\"e conc'lusivelv that the ~11ethoci~ recommended cci'ulcl be confidentlv accepted. 9hicf among these preventive mcasur·s IS the immediate ploug·hing up or turmng under of cotton plants after harvest. Thico and othc1· measures we1·e fully proved by the conference, and every cotton-grower \Vas urged to put them promptly into effect. Boiled down. the first preYentiYc n10asnr0s 1n-2ans that cotton ratoolling should not be practised.''

After reading that article I rc-cognised that the ~tatements were absolutely false and mis­leadmg. I \\~nt and >'aw the editor at the 0f!iccs of the department. I told him that I had read the article and s:tid: " \Vi!! vou make the reports of the conference refer'red to availab!o to me. or hav-e vou <rot the resolutions 'o that i: can read them <;j., He admitted that the rc.,olutions did not make those statements at all, and he said he vv-ould make the notes of that conference av-ailable. I told him that I had written to America to see if I could get these proceedings. He told me that this particular article was sub­Imtted by Mr. Mark Harrison of Too­woomba. The e-ditor aft crV\ ard~ admitted that it w~s quite misleading. :\Iy point is that nothmg whatever was done to rectify the matter. It is pretty bad when the Go­v-ernment journal ·deliberately misleads the peopl-e of Queensland on such an important question.

I obtained the American "Year Book of Agriculture " some few days ago. and there are ono or two matters contained in that publication "hich I would like to mention. The ': Year Book" conbins quite a lot of mat0nal on cotton, and I was absolntelv unable to find the word '· ratoon " mentioned. That _shows that ratoon is not a burning ques­tion In 1-\nH~nca; in fact, we kno\V that it is absolutely impossible to grow it there. To show the fallacy of the information that has been given to us to the effect that the cotton crop in America was a failure and had r"sultcd in a great disaster to the nation let me !'ea-~ what is said on page 10 of that pubhcatwn by Henry C. \VallacP Secretarv for Agriculture of the United' States o'f America-

" The advance in the price of cotton has been mo_st hopeful throug-hout the ~·otton-pr;>durmg States. While tho crop ~s shot·t 111 n1any areas, the cotton-groYv­rng country as a whole is probabl v in a_

b0tter Jinc-ncial po<ition no\v- than 'it has been for threo vcars.''

rrlw::.·e arc_ smne other l11attcrs in rcgarcl to cotton that I w-·nld like to rdcr to, but I am hopmg that we shall ha-cc an onportunitv latc-r on of discussing this cot-torl busincs~. ;v-hcn I shall be only too plc .sed to use this InfornJabon.

. Ano~lwr Gon·rnmcnt policy that must fail 1-.. tl~ell' for~·,try policy. Iu rlLJ l:..-arran1an dy;,t r1rt a n11ll has been working for a c·m­Slflcra blc n~1ubcr of years turning out a lal'g(' <JlHlnhty of tin1ilPr. The-.;,- arc no\.Y appronclli,:g thL"\ end of th<"ir tin1b.f'l' ~upplit':', and the 1 nnbc-T pcoplP of the district \Ye re 0ndpasouring to S0C'H'P "111 ns~uranct~ froni the Gov-emmont that ful'tlwr an ao \\·ould he

[Ji:r. :Yatt.

made a,-,:ilablo so that the towndtip "·ou!J not be Wiped off the map. To that end foy some ''.'ceks they wcro endeavouring, by dopnt~tion, to meet the Secrotctry for Public Lands. After a good many wcek':l' delay one way and another, they found it was impos­sible to m00t the hon. gentleman, and they met the Secretary for Public \Yorks in hi's stead. That hon. g-eDtlcman listened vcrv courteously to the deputation, and told them that they vYould receive a reply through their lccal member. They have been waiting for tfus reply for 801110 n1onths now-not wt::•ks-­and .arc particularly anxious to receive it, a:.1d 1t seems to me that thee.- are not likely to g0t a reply. The position now is that man~· of these IYOrkers~miH workers, timber fa}lcrs, and tearnstcrs-aro selling their hon1es. :\'tany of thc,e workcre ha"'' akeadv sold their furniture, and sorn(~ of tlH'nl hrlv~~ bf'en endeavouring to ~('}1 their hnrnes ,':0 that thev can :];et a 1vay to look for work at ot he~~ pla{'PS. They are- hopinp; that ~nmething Ill<y h0 done, and that Yarra.man rnav not he "'IYiped out. hut thPV cannot ()"'Pt' anv further. The department considt~'s that f10re 1s only D. Jin1itcd amount of tiinbl~r n ,.<1 ih hlc the1T. but, as far as I can t::ec the amqunt of timber on ~01110 of th0 arets r' was on \Vas fron1 five to six tilnes as rrreat as the departmental estimate. All the 1,;-'nd that has been alread~, cut over on one occasion I am t•Jld by timber-getters and millers i;, that loc .1lit:v, contains as much good matured tim­ber on it to-da0' as has been taken out vet that tm1ber will only bo ma-de available 'in parsi­monious IotA 60 that the mill has to work from hand to mouth. Ev-en-body knows that t.ny bu.-.inc::s of anv n1agnit.ude Du1~t he able to obtain large suPplies of raw niRtP.rial so th~t it tan enter into contracts and keep go1ng. A larg·::> mill Yvith a number of employe<:'>' is not going to be k~pt guing vvilh JUSt Pnough for to-da:v and perhaps with a prmnit:e of more to-morl'O'.V. Thcv 1nu::-,t hetYP something more suhf'tantial th;{n that. Ia this area, too, there is a con•.iderable ar0a of lnr.d parti<'ularlv Euitablc fDr aari~ rulture. There i·. any Lamount of land~ in that district that is too rough for closel' settlcrrH.·lll, and that Ja11 l could bP rc~H"Yed for rcafforcstat.ion _purposes. There is an <H'f'-a at Yarran:an that 'vas f!ClPrted a good l1ll!lll)f'!' of ~'ears ago bv tcamsi.rrs and mill workPrs, who selN·tcci' with thP irlra of dt:YPlooing their farn1s €l1Hl lnt0r on retiring fron1 timbcr-gPtting or sn\Ymilling. They have bPt_'ll v...-orking there fer a nnmbPr of .vear-., and haYP spent a lot of n1onev ·:n dcnJoping their areas, and no"''"' ' the Forr,try D<'JlHt ''llent h:ts rrePrv-ed for forc_;;tr.v purpm:f's a lot o~ land around tht•rn, and the, nre left wHh n Y0rv liinitf'd nrea. Tl10rc is no opportunit".' for o.thcr fa rnH'r;:; to rmnp in rtnd ~clPrt hu1>~l in the Yicinih-, and if tho rr,iJl c},nse~ do-..vn tho"e faru1ers ,;-in be )pft withont a market. At thr present time 1llr·y are producing malzr: and other crops, v.-hirh were finding" a rf'arh- markrt 'Yith the timbC'r-r;c:ttPrs :->ncl re~idclJtf~ of the Yarrn­llln.n township. Tlw area of frPrlvllrl lnnd ihel'C' is rot :-ufficicnt io ''arrant the C'l'f'rtlnn of a butter factor::, so that if this to"·nship is wined out. of existence it will nH~?,ll that the s0lcctors there will lP gradually -tan'Pd to dc at h.

Th, v ha;-c nlso up in : lnt localitv --omc ~oldj0r :settlers. Sonw of thr land tBkt•n ur-r b~- thost: ~ettlPrs ig pariicu1arl'.- ~oo 1. la-1d, bnt the unimproved value that the<' mer<

Address in Reply. [G A~GUST.] Address ·in Rrply. 173

-arC' asked to carry is exorbitant. Pron1ise~ have boon made at different times that tlw matter of writing down the values of eolclicr settlements would be carried ant. '1.'here have been several inspectors engaged in inspecting adjac0nt soldier settlcn1ents, but they have clone nothing- in reg:ud to this particular settlement. The Vice-Regal Speech, at the opening of Parliament in July, 1923. referred to the quest:on as fellows:-

" One of the undoubted dilftcultics with which the soldier settlers have to contend is the ov0r-capita1isation of their holdings."

·•rhesc men arc capitalised to the extent of £6 5s. per acre. There is freehold land 50 miles nearer Ipswich of equal quality that <:an be bought at £3 an acre. If these men 1•ere put on lands 102 miles from Ipswich. which arc capitalised at £6 5s. an acre, while freehold lands could be purchased 50 miles nearer Ipswich at £3 an acre, I hold that a very great injustice was done b them.

Thoro is another matter I would like to speak of-that is the Brisbane Valley braHch t"ailway from Ipswich to Yarraman Creek. I do not know whethn the Railwav Depart­ment are satisGe.l with the speeds of the 1rains or the accon1modntion on this li!lP. It is 102 mile' from Yan-o.man to Ipswich. A motor-car the other dny gave the train in that distance threP hours' start. and caught it up before it had got 70 miles.

Mr. FRY: A Ford!

Mr. NOTT: I did not sav it was a Ford­I said it was a motor-c<tr·. (Laughter.) l give the figures showing the losses on the working- of this line for the last five years-

WULKICRAKA TO YARRA1IAX CREEK.

CapitaL "r~.~_\:i~-~1 IntcrrsL ~-i~;~--

~£-------1 -£ ----~---1--_ f" -786,G50 (1918-10) 6,-lO!l 31,4G2 ~7," 1

70°,275 (l!ll!l-2.0)

784,7 +4 ( 1920-21)

-802,513 (1921-22)

-815,196 (1922-2~)

Total £

6,30:Z

8,778

0,8:)0

33,143

707

41,4:23

3J.SOS

3:>,033. I 36.\17/ -~~~- "---~~~

166,16.; 19!l,W6

Those figures show a loss of .£33,143 in working, .£166,163 in interest, or a total loss of £199,306 on 102 miles of line. It seems to me that the moro traffic this line carries the gr-eater is the loss. As I said, the distance is only 102 miles, but a fully-loaded train leaving Yarraman takes four staffs to run it those 102 miles. They leave Yarraman .f'arly in the morning, change at Linville, and again at Esk. When the train arrives at Esk it has to be split into two because the <'ngine cannot take it up the steep gra-des or nmnd the curves. Anyone travelling on the Yarraman line knows that it is pretty well an eYen money chance whether you get stuck on those grades or whether you got over them. If mme of that loss which I have quoted had been used to reduce ono or two of the heavy grades and straighten out half a dozen or more of the worst curves, I hold that it would be a good paying line. because -cver_y train that travels on it practically

carries as much as the engine can pull. The fact that the Railway Department puts up with the continued loss indiccctes either inefficiency or a policy preventing the improYement of the line or any chance of its b,·corning· a paying propo3ition. Just recently the hon. member for Nanango and I h~,-e directed to €ach member of the Cabinet a lctt0r asking 'xhPthcr considera­tion ran not be gi vcn to the linking-up of the Yarran1an a.nd Nanango lines, and the h1 king out of those curves an cl the reduction vf the grade-;. If that VYL'l'C' done. instead of :;hc"ving ·a lo s of very nenrly "-8200)000 every fivP yerrn. this lino '' ould be a payable line nnd "'Aould be a v;-:ry great C'onvenicnc-e to the residents of the Upper Brisbane Valley, >Yho, instead of taking all day to got to Brisbane, would be able to g·,t down here in a short space of time. It would also relieve the congc~tion on the ~orth Coast lino. \Yhich to rr very great cxtc11t is caused by th > traffic hom the Kingaroy, Wondai, :IIcmerambi. and neighbouring districts.

The SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. mem­ber has exhausted the time allowed to him by the Standing Orders.

Mr. TAYLOR (Windsor) : I am sure that, aftr'r list oning· to the debate for the last two or three da.Ys, \Y'O are all YCry rnuch inter­CRtcd in parliamentary proceedings.

The PRDIIER: IV e are always intorc~tl'd in parliamentary procee·dings.

1\Ir. TAYLOR: I am sure, too, that in Yiew of the neces,ity for conYorting the large amount of loan money which falls due this vcar and next vc'ar vve followed the movo­;.,,cnts of tlw 'Pnemier with the greatest po"ible inter st.

Perwnally, I 1\..tS exceedil>glv gratified at th•l success of the Premier's efforts in London. I was in J\Ielbourno when the news came through giving us particulars of the settlement which· hn had effc,ctcd. an-d I imrnPdiately wired the Acting Pren1ier con­gratulating him on the successful efforts of the Premier in connection vrith the conver­sion of the loans on behalf of the State. Whilst I quite agreed with what the Pre­mil'r did on his mission, I very much regretted to see the tactless remarks which he made on his return to \>\' estcrn Australia. );'o matier what the Premier may say, I think that concessions were given, but, whilst saying that, l say they were justifiable con­cessions. and conc0:;;sions ,vhi, h \vcre made in the Yerv beet interests of the S'tate. We all realise that the money had to be renewed, and it >Yotlld have been disastrous, notwith­standing· what hon. members may have said in this Chamber, if the hon. gentl-eman had been unsurce~sful in his negotiations in London. Ju-dging- from the correspondence and cables yy·hich appeared in the Press from time to time while the negotiations were being conducted, and listening to the remarks b,- the Premier in connection with the matter, there is no -doubt whatever that he had a most difficult task. Whilst the moneyed people in London were willing to p:iYe the Premier what assistance they possi­bly could, there is no doubt whatever that there wer-e cerb.in interests who were opposed to him and prevcntc·d him from making any progress in carrying out the financial obliga­tions which he has so successfully carrie-d out.

At 5.30 p.m., The SPEAKER adjourned the House.

Air. Taylor.]