Iron Warrior: Volume 4, Issue 1

7/27/2019 Iron Warrior: Volume 4, Issue 1

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Iron Warrior 1L---= '==-NO

A ORUM FOR ENGINEERtNG CONCEPTS

The ob Situation: the naked truthThe Co-op system at Waterloo has been history for 25

years, but lately the history it's been making has been

something all those concerned would just as soon forget.During th e last week, the CBC, CTV and Global ha ve alJscooped stories on the grim outlook for students in the Coop program , and the Toronto Star and Iron Warrior 's main

rival, the KW Record, have run articles which seem topreclude the imminent doom of the system.

Ian Tennant was quoted as saying, among other things,

that Co-op is bursting apart at the seams , and the Star

stated the issue as the problem is si.mple: No Work". The

media have a job to do, thatis, report the news, butin order

to make it interesting the case is often overs tated.

Even the hard, cold facts do not really tell the whole

story. Of the 3741 students in co-operative programs who

ar e 01' should be on work terms at this time, fully 847 were

un placed s of Wed. Jan. 5th, or 22.6%. Of these 407students were unplaced i.n the 6 branches of Engineering:

73 /208 Chem Eng110/248 eiv Eng671387 Elec Eng81 24 Geol Eng

119/383 Mech Eng

30 /160 Sys DesWhen this figure of 847 is cast up against approx

imately 200 who were out looking during the last week ofAug us t, t he re is ce rt ainly reaso n enough to s tep bac k and

t ke' deep brea h. As lim ilson, ssociate Director of

Co-op said: It is the most difficult placement we've ev er

had in the 25 year history of th e university , but that doesnot make it writeoff.

Di rec tl y before Christmas break there were 999unplaced students and in a blitz over the Christmas

period. 99 of these were placed. This figure has in the

meantime dropped to the 847 quoted earlier . A technique

which was first used last term is the questioning ofreturning students about the availability of positions at

their past placements , and this resulted in approximately

70 of the remaining students at that time being placed.

lim Wilson expects that by the middle of January the effect

of this term's interview blitz will begin to be noticed and asizeable chunk will be taken out of the number of unplaced

students.

With these precarious economic conditions. employers

are becoming more hesitant to commit themselves fourdnd eight months in advance. and more and more of the

positions which become available do so only very late inthe term, i.e. after interviews are done. In hedging their

bets in t his fashion the employers are threatening the most

unique aspect of Co-op at Waterloo, the computer

matching which enables both student and employer tohave more choice than the more conventiona l 1:1 system

allows , but concessions to the economic situation must bemade. and i this is where, then so be it .

The difficulties currently being encountered stem at

least part ly from the fact that it is inherently more difficul tto place students in the winter term than in the fall, forexample. In fall. students coming out to work are in the

2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6 th work terms. i.e. two senior classes,

and intermediate class and the junior class with onework term alrpudy under their belt, whereas the winter

among other things, a surfei t of junior students is evident.

In addition to this fact, by the natural trimming down

process, the fall term is not forced to deal with the sheernumber of students coming onto work term in winter. This

can be as much as 500 students more than in the fall term.

Put into this perspective. things look a little differently.

The co-ordinators have been very busy lately and the

university is doing its utmost to take up the slack. Anoptimistic way to look at the current situation is that, forinstance. in the steel industry. which normally accounts

for 125 to 150 students per term, there are virtually none

being employed today. so that things could hardly getworse. The same can be said for the mining and pulp and

paper industries.

Curiously. the automobile industry has not let up

whatsoever and General Motors has, among other things,

instituted a new scholarship for students on workterms

with them. based not on marks. but rather on the

work term, work reports. an interview and other criteria.

Ontario Hydro, which late in the fall cancelled allpositions has in the meantime taken on quite a number ofstudents after interviews, .but then UW and Ontario

Hydro have long had a strong working relationship.

18M, another big employer of Co-op students, has beendoing wonders of late. so much so in fact that they have

almost as many students as the two major employers. the

federal and provincial governments.

The university too has stepped up considerably the

number of students employed on campus. President

Douglas Wright, in a very positi ve memo to the Deans and

Department Heads, encourages the placement of students

on campus wherever possible, and results to date have

yielded an increase from 66 to 136 positions currently.

This figure is rising daily. In spite of the recession , the

amount of money being funnelled into research at UW has

been on the upswing. and this too has opened more

positions. Obviously the Department of Co-ordination

and Placement has the full support of the university

administration. There are even two students employed

within the Department of Co-ordination to maintain

• contact wi t h the unplaced st uden ts, in a role of student coordinators.

· O

A comprehensi ve list of new methods of job recruit ment

was given out by the Dean early in December of last year,

and one of the methods suggested there and enthus

iastically pushed by Jim Wilson is the new contract hiringmethod . In order to cut red tape or help get around hiring

freezes. students are placed on a temporary help basis,

most for a term of 4 months. So far interest in this new formhas been from the federal and provincial governments and

from some corporations as well. Jim Wilson thinks that

this may be the way to go in the future.

A great deal has been made of the push to induce

Waterloo alumni to influence their employers, and

thereby increase job openings. but many more campaigns

are underway .Several professional publications have or

will have advertisements, which. when attempted

previously on a limited scale, produced results.

Participation in a local exposition recently brought in anumber of inquiries about hiring students.

The hundreds of government aid prog rams to assist

employers have been examined carefully and the handful

which may be applicable to Co-op students have been put

into kit form for use by the co-ordinators in their jobsearches. The notion of job sharing is under development,

or at least being considered. and most importantly,students are relying less on co-ordination, but rather are

using connections of their own. and acti vely going out onthe job search. In the past this option was usually left till astudent remained unplaced at the end of term. but such isnot the case today.

It must be noted however, that circumstances being

what they are the normal requirements for the number of

work terms may have to be reduced. The Faculty of

Engineering will not place students at a disadvantage, if

for reasons over which they have no control, they do not

obtain a job in this or next term . The situations will behandled individually as they come in, but the requirement

of four satisfactory work reports is still to to be upheld,

even if a student must research a topic on his own.

Maybe times are tough, but no one is lying down on the

Job. It may just take a little more effort though.

TorontoStar onCo op

Reprinted with permission othe Toronto Star

by John Spears Toronto Star

The economic recession is

battering students in the Univer

sity of Waterloo's work-study

program this winter

The problem is simple: NoWork.

Students in the work-study, or

co-op program alternate study

terms with stretches of up to 17

weeks of practical work in a jobrelated to their course of study .

But of 3.700 Waterloo co-op

students heading out for a work

term starting in the New Year,

nearly 1.000 were without firm

job offers when the universitv

closed for the Christma break. 'That's five times the usual

numbers who haven't found

work by Christmas says Tom

Fitzgerald. one of the co-op ad

ministrators.

And although Waterloo officials say they expect several hun

dred co-op students will land

jobs by early Janua['y, they admi tthe scope of the problem is un

precedented.The problem is serious because

co-op students aren't just graded

on their academic work. They

must complete a certain number

of work terms in course-related

jobs in order to earn theirdegrees.

Jim Wilson, associate director

of the co-op program, says nostudent will be penalized if the

right job simply can't be found,

but the university may have .tochange some rules if the re

cession deepens and students

miss more than one work term.

This winter is a sharp contrast

to recent years, he says.

A year ago, and for the pre

vious four or five years. there

were three and four jobs a:vailable for every upper-year stu

dent. and plenty of jobs for all

students, he says. That sit

uation evaporated a year ago."Even in the fall term, 98 per

cent of the co-op students got

course-related jobs, Wilson says,

but prospects for the winter term

are discouraging.

Very restricted

Where we are having the

greatest difficulty is .in engin

eerin$ and science, but partic

ularly at the junior level," Wilson says. (Con't on page 9)



I

From the

President s

eskEditorial the first

Before I get started, I would

like to take a few lines to welcome

everybody back to campus for

the term . I'd also like to extend aspecial welcome to the 18 stu

dents and to those 4B students

who have just joined us from EngSoc A . For the rest of you , you 'llfind we have no QEMF, no 8-month stream change, and a new

POETs Pub . Events for this term

are well into the planning stage

and look promising. Don ' t forget,we need your help .

The big news right now is thecurrent job situation. This ap

plies to both co-op and graduate

placements. It was reported by

Jan Tennant from Global News

on Tuesday, January 4, 1983that

the Waterloo co-op scheme is

falling apart at the seams and

on the brink of collapse . This is

certainly not true . Her comments

amount to nothing more than

irresponsible journalism and ahigh degree of sensationalism. Isuggest that Ms . Tennant should

seriously consider the ramificat

ions of her statements before

making them public or she might

be looking for a job. t is through

this forum, the editorial. that

such opinionated commentsshould be made and certainly nol

in a news item.

There is no denying that there

is a shortage of jobs for co-op

students. t would be folly to

state the contrary. When the sit

uation is going to change is any

body's guess. t the moment itseems that we must weather the

storm and wait for the economy

to pick up and blow fresh wind

into Wat erloo's sails.

Until then we must be more in

novative and agressive than ever

before . Through a great deal of

effort on the part of the Coordination Department we did

achieve over 98% placement inthe fall term. They will continue

to work harder a t get ling the jobs

but Ihe students must also help

ou1. If you have a job from last

term , think twice before not

returning. f you know of apossible job opening, think 1wice

about turning it down or at least

make an effort to inform your coordinator about it for another

student. Use some previous con

tacts. Perhaps a job is available

for you from old employers or

from other people you have

worked with . Gelling a co-op or

grad job is not going to be easy,

but even now at Waterloo we've

still got a big head start.

Finally, on behalf of all st u dents in engineering, I would like

to pass on best wishes for aspeedy recovery to Ray Wieser.

Ray, Director of Co-ordinationand Placement, suffered a heart

attack this fan and is currentlyrecovering at home.

Mark Liddy, President

Engineering Society 8

INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUT INPUTThe Iron Warrior would like people interested in writing, drawing layoutclubs, s ~ o r t s b ~ o k s ct. c e t e r ~ et cetera to submit hard copy soft copy ideas,

suggestIOns, pOInters, Iflput, Input and feedback to the Iron Warrior box in theEngineering Society Office along with, ify-ou wish, a name and aphonenumber.

he Iron Warrior is a publication of the Engineering Society B at the

niversity of Waterloo. It's purpose is to promote professionalBwarenes the Engineering Faculty and to inform Engineers of the

Society Activities.

ailing Address: Iron Warriorc/o Eng Soc BUniversity of Waterloo

Waterloo, Ontario

Director of Publications

Managing Editor

Editor

Production Manager

Advertising Managers

Photography

Layout

Dave Williams

Aaron Sandler

Scott Sorli

Norm Kummer

Frank Gerencser

Rod Van Kessenich

Herb Chong

Paul Gabber

Bob Costen

Eric Dormer

Ken JonesRuth Higginson

Cathy Sterle

The IrlJn Warrior is typeset at mprint and printed at Webman Press.

2. Iron Warrior

Editorial

In its present form, QEMF has left us. Perhaps permanently. On the

occasion of its demise, all sorts of accolades were heaped upon the

organizers of the effort for a job well done; many thanks were handed

out for making the student body, and to some degree, others outside the

lIniversitv communitv aware of some of the effects of a lack of funding.

Sad to say, tha t's just abou t all that it has done to that though. Engineers

tend to have a very pragmatic view of their surroundings however, andnow that we are all aware 01 the problem, it is time to set the gears in

motion once again.Firstly of course, the ideas have to exist. We thought the hard partwas

thrashing out wording of QEMF last summer, but all that came tonought since the concept never reached the prototype stage. I suspect

there is some similarity here to the frustration a backbencher feels in

Parliament. Now we are back at square one, essentially. Of course, the

doors within the university syste.m are hammering away at the problem

with calls for alumni donations and the expansion of WATFUND,

neither of which is an insignificant effort; but we,·the students, can and

should be doers too.The onus lies on our compatriots in A Society to get the ball rolling

for the second round. Even though they were the ones who originally

came up with the concept of QEMF almost one year ago, they were also

responsible for its torpedoing in the fall term. But, we don't have to sit

around on our duffs and expect them to come up with something, and Iwould be very disappointed if that were to happen. ..

After the sinking of the good ship QEMF approximately three months

ago, the YES and NO factions put their heads -together. The NO

cOll1mittee too recognized the need for additional funding, and they had

quite a few suggestions for alternate solutions to the problem. Ideas

were sought from the student bodyingeneral andit is hoped to keep this

an ongoing process.

But that is not the only area which can be addressed when we talkahout the quality of our education. We sp Aod fft08tol our time in school

attending lectures , so that our professors have a whole lot to do with the

quality of our education. I am not implying here that the situation isgetting worse, as is the case with funding (or lack thereof), but in

dealing with human beings, there is always room for improvement.

Course critiques are an important portion of the process, but let's step

back and take a look at the issue. After all, itis good engineering practice

to define your problem before you set out in search of a solution.

What is it exactly that we expect from our professors? Whatis good or

effective teaching? can define that in my terms, if think about it, but

my terms are surely not going to be the same as yours. Do the professors

live up to your expectations of what you feel they should be doing? Isthat effective teaching?

Iron Warrior broached this subject with some professors in the

~ p a r t m e n t of Management Science, and the first thing pointed out, if

weat there is an issue to be raised regarding'the quality of teachingwithin the faculty, then we must first come to terms with the definition

of the problem.

A professor is rewarded for his research.-He must do a certain amount

of research to maintain his status within his field. His chief bargaining

power wilh the uni versity is his reputation, how he is regarded by his

peers in his area of specialization. Very little motivates a professor toteach well. Why should he pay any attention to teaching at all, for that

matter?

Obviously, there is not one single way to teach well. f you think about

the various p,rofessors you've had whom you felt taught well, I am sure

you are hard put to determine what made them good. But there must besome common traits among them, there must be a bevy of little tricks

to make their styles of teaching more effective. f we are going topinpoint this effectiveness, this seems like the way to start.

We at the Iron Warrior would like you to think the issue over. The

other side of the coin must also be examined. f we don't get any direct

feedback from professors, wecan and will actively go out seeking it. But

first, we need you. Your opinions, your ideas and your definitions. Once

we know what we are looking for, the task is simplified considerably.

The only way to change it is to make an issue out ofil and the only way tomake an issue out of it is to demonstrate the need for change.

The fact that this is a new university. not haunted by the ghosts oftradition, is certainly in our favour. Time and again new innovations in

courses and equipment have been introduced here, but this time,instead of introducing something new, why not make an improvement

onpn older method? At the risk of sounding cliche, our education cannot

be allowed to be static, and this is one way, without the use of extra

funding, in which we can contribute to the betterment of our

educational environments. But this is not a project to be undertaken by

one person, or even a small group. t must come from us, you, the

students, and even the professors. Let's get the show on the road.



ron Warrior 3

A Soc Defeats QEMF

QEMF is dead. The campaignwhich began in March almost one

year ago was brought to ascreeching halt when Eng Soc

A , the originators of the idea.

failed to produce the supportdeemed necessary as mandate forsuch a vital issue.

After we in S Soc turned in81% of the votes in favour of

QEMF with our 78 turnout inJuly, the issue was turned over toA Soc where the requisite 213

plus one majority was not gener

ated. Voter turnout of 63

produced a majority of 55% infavour of QEMF, 12% shy of the

necessary margin as laid out in

the rules for the Quality of

Education Maintenance Fund .There seems to be general

agreement that the proposal wasbrought down due to its general

ity. A very active NO campaign

had focussed their attention on

points wi thin the st ructure of the

QEMF proposal. There was very

little if any mention of a cam

paign against the principle ofQEMF.Mark Liddy, president of Eng

Soc S was close to the issueduring campaign development in

the fall term and mentioned thatA Soc students had become

more wrapped up in the details of

the proposal, which may have

caused them to stray from the

central issue; the idea behind

QEMF . Mark felt that these

details could always have been

worked out and students should

have voted according to the

ge neral principle behind QEMF.

Where do we go from here?Dean Lennox, who was under

st a ndably disappointed with theresu lts , is continuing the can

vassing of alumni and is activelysearching for new sources of

funding . Mark Liddy and JeffCox, president ngSoc A , hmet with the NO campaigners todiscuss alternatives, and some

ideas have been brought forward

in the aftermath of QEMF's

defeat. Slllce it was A Soc who

brought the house down the onus

is up on th em to resurrect the

campa in to maintain the quality

of our education , but that is not to

say that we in B Soc can standidly by and let them go it solo.

Certa inl y. if anyone has a brilliant notion, let it be known. The

issue of declining quality of

education is far from gone itmust now be approached from

otherangles.

Watfund : Alternative to QEMF?

Last summer, over 80% of avoter turnout from Engineering

Society B vo ted Yes' to the

Q.E.M.F ., indicating their will

ingness to pay an extra $50 aftereach work term. However, afterthe Q.E.M.F. was not accepted by

Engineering Society A, the rich

but concerned co-op st uden ts

who voted Yes might be con

sidering alternatives to it .Two outlets for individual

donations to University activ

ities are the Sanford Fleming

Foundation, which will be dis

cussed in a later issue, and the

WATFUND.The WATFUND is a five-year

development programme which

allows indiVIduals and corpor-

' ations to contribute to the Uni

versity of Waterloo's innovative

education and research. These

donations are sent to the Office of

Development and Alumni Af

fairs in Needles Hall. The WAT

FUND will be used for capital

development, laboratory equip

ment, academic development,

scholarships and fellowships

and special library acquisitions.

The capital development, which

will use a majority of the pro-

jected funds. includes the following projects: Instil ute forComputer Research. Kinesiology

and Health Studies Laboratories,

Earth Sciences Teaching andResearch Facilities. Physical

Recreation Facility. Engineering.

Mathematics, and Science library. Specialized Engineering

Laboratories. UW Engineeringwill benefit from projected fund

ing for laborator} upgrading andattracting professors. under

graduates and graduate students.

The contributors include cor

porations and foundations. (who

pay the largest percentage).

associations, pri\'atedonors. UWfaculty, staff and students. The

UW faculty and staff have made

generous donations. With over

40 of them participating. theiraverage contribution is about

400. UW students will provide

$1 .5 million overfiveyears to pay

for a new arena recreational

building. So far. about $9.5million of the total campaign goal

of $21 million has been raised.

There are basically two ways

in which money can be given tothe WATFUND. Firstly, un

restricted funds are provided by

a contributor who does notdesignate where they are to go.Secondlr, restricted funds aregi\en b}; contributors who spec

if\' what the mone\ IS to be usedfor. For e ample. 'a corporation

may invest m u n ~ on the con

dition that it be used for research

beneficial to one of its industries.

Furthermore. all contributions

to the WATFUND are atll'activeinvestments because they areincome ta deductable. '

Wit hits eAis t i ng st ruct ure, can

voluntary contributions to the

WATFUND be used to perform

the function intended for the

Q.E.M.F?

The Q.E.M.F. had a couple of

advantages. While funds received into the WATFUND are

irregular and often require many

months to obtain, the Q.E.t-.1.F.would have provided a fast

predictable source of money.Reliable funds enable greater

flexibility for those who spendthem. Also, the engineering stu

dents would have largely con

trolled the Q.E.M.F. and directed

it towards upgrading engineering laboratories. However, iforganized, students could con

trol their contributions to WAT-

PEKING EXPRESS

GOOD FOOD

FU fO.lt is pos ible for groups of

students and facult\' to assemble

students' d l n a t i o n ~ and select

\\ here they are to go. Under such

an arrangement. the Offic(' ofDevelopment ould receive themoney, issue receipts and send itdirectly to the specified areas.

Like the Q.E.t-.1.F., this type of

contribution to the WATFUND

would req uire t he organization of

students and faculty into an

advisory council.

ot only would a student co ntribution benefit the area it isdirected to but it would help the

rest of the WATFUND pro

gramme. Firstly, some corpor

ations provide grants which

match a certai n percentage of themoney collected into the W A T FUND. Therefore. any increase

in the WATFUND would also

increase the matching funds.

Secondl), siglllficant donationsby faculty, stafr and especially

students are used to demon

strate 10 potential contributorsthe importance \ e place on oureducation here. Although con

tributions to the WATFUND

cannot be used as directly as the

Q.E.M.F., it is possible that funds

be used to meet the specific

engineering education needs andto benefit the WATFUND as awhole.

Whether funding for engin

eering facilities through the

WATFUND is organized or not,

the WATFUND remains a tax

deductable outlet for the 50 or

more that many were preparedlast summer to pay.

Bob Costen

3BEE

. OP N » 24 HOURS .

7 D YS AWEEK

Corner of University Phillip



/ '

The New Improved

Exci ling Media Series

Tuesday, January 18 th

Hagey HilI l373 378

7:30 p.m.

Clear Thinking , the first in

th e four part se r ies, will be aworkshop on how we can best

analyse and use the news media .

Sm a ll group discllssion willtllckle objectives for the -;eriesand create a new ga me pia n f01

effectively using information

and resources on reading bet

ween the lines.

Tuesday February 1st

Hagey Hall 37 3 378

7:30 p.m.

Objectivity and the Press

Richard Swift, radio journal ist and author, slices intn the

media. showing where bias and

propagilnda affect objectivity

of the press. Workshop to follow.

Social Impacts of

Computerisation

The Proceedings of the Forum

on the Social Impact of Com

puterisation, held January 14-16.1982. are now available in the

WPIRG Resource Centre.

If you would like to help plan ]

eLI

workshop on employment im

pacts of computerisation, please

contact Kae Elgie or Bill Allan at

the WPIRG office, room 217B CC,ext. 2578 .

WPIRG Presents

Brown Bag Seminars

This winter , through its Brown

Bag Seminars, the Waterloo

Public Interest Research Group

continues its lunch -hour look at

topical issues. All seminars will

be held in Room 135 of the

CampusCentre at the University

of Waterloo at 12:30 p.m . and are

free flnd open to the general

public.

Farmword has been identified

as the most dangerous oc cupat ion in the United States, par

ticularly due to pesticide ex posure. On Thursday January

20th Dr . Dick Frank, director of

the Pesticides Laboratory of the

Univers ity of Guelph, will dis

cuss the health effects of agri

cultura l chemicals - a topic ofinterest to home gardeners, too.

In response to the economic

malaise, the next seminar looks

at alternative personal and com

munity responses to hard times.

On Wednesday January 26, com

munity developmen t consul tant

Susan Wismer will look at ways

economically depressed com

munities ' have organ ized and

generated their own growth. inher talk on community-based

economic development

Trained students available:

• to help fi l l out OSAP forms• to answer queries about

OSAP appeals

OSAP forms will also be available

OSAP is available to financiallyassist you. Find out how t may

help you

Jan. 10-14 ...................... 10:30 to 2:30Jan. 17-21 ...................... 11:30 to 1:30

Jan. 24-28,31 ................. 11:30 to 2:30

Located besideCampus Centre Room 138

4. 'Iron Warrior

Waterloo Inn

Thurs.January 20feds $4 others $5

•

Incre ...-RE DING SKILLS

Would You Like To:(I) Read over 100 WORDS PER MINUTE

(2) Improve your comprehension by 10 to 15(3) Read periodicals & small novels in less than 30 min.(4) Improve your concentration and retention(5) Build confidence in your reading capabilities

Tuesdays: 7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.mChemistry 2, Room 166

Beginning Tuesday, January 25, 1983Ending Tuesday, March 22, 1983

(Excluding Tuesday; February 22)

This course is taught by a qualified· professional instructor

60.00 Feds 65.00 Others(A U costs are included; the fee s tax deductible)

YOU MUST PRE-REGISTER

at the Federation Office, Campus CentreRoom 235. You may pay by certified

cheque, money order or ·by cash.

I3J Federation of Students 24 Hour .Infonnation 884-INFS-



5. Iron Warriol

Canadian Student PugwashScience and thical Responsibility

P KING XPR SS

GOOD FOOD

In 1955. Bertrand Russel and

Albert Einstein issued a mani

festo calling upon the scientists

of the world to meet in confer

ence to discuss the threat ofnuclear weapons. The first such

conference, sponsored by Cyrus

Eaton. took place ill .he small

town of Pugwash, Nova Scotia.

in 1957. Since then this informal

movement has grown world

wide, and its perspective has

broadened to inclui:le the sources

of international conflict and the

responsibilities of scientists insociety.

In June 1979, the first Student

Pugwash Conference on Science

and Ethical Responsibility was

held in San Diego. Many of the

participants at this excellent

conference were spurred to es

tablish student Pugwash organ

izations at both the national and

international levels. As part of

this effort , and with the support

of the senior Pug wash organiz

ation in Canada. Canadian Stu

dent Pugwash was founded in the

fall of 1979.In today's world, the scientist

often plays a pivotal role insocietal change, yet the moral responsibility implied by this role

is frequent ly overlooked. Workthat might pose ethical problems

for the scientist ranges from bio

medical research on human sub

jects to designing ballistic mis

sile guidance systems, fromdeveloping new pesticides todrafting intelligence tests. Among students, there is great

scope for a discussion of the

ethical issues that may arise insuch work.

Canadian Student Pugwash is

committed to the p r i n c i p ~ SO

of the Pugwash movement.

which ape the avoidance of war

and conflict, in particular nu

clear war, and the survival and

betterment of the human race.Canadian Student Pugwash is an

organization primarily of scien

tists that encourages. through avariety of activities, the respon

sible use of science in our societ y.These goals can be furthered

by:

- establishing a net work ofyoung social and natural scien

tists across Canada who are con

cerned about the ethical issues

relevant to their work;

- promoting an educational dis

cussion of these issues and an

interdisciplinary exchange of

information and ideas between

student and established scieJ'ltists through correspondenct:

workshops. and conferences; and

- encouraging scientists out

side the organization to discuss

the ethical implications of their

work.

Within the above framework,

Canadian Student Pug wash pro

motes a broad riiscussion per

mitting an exchange of diverse

opinions.

Participation in Canadian Stu

dent Pugwash is informal: there

are no membership lists or fees.Although most of those involved

are from the university community, recent students, stu

dents between degrees. and es

tablished scientists working out

side university are encouraged toparticipate. Because of the in

evitable lack of student contin

uity, the aclivesupport of univer

sity professors is essential. Stu

dents do most of the organ

izational work, but interested

professors help maintain the

momentum of Canadian Student

Pugwash from year to year.

Although the most conspic

uous issues of science and ethics

usually arise from the work of the

natural scientist. social scien

tists are active in CanadianStudent Pugwash. The work of

social scientists often signif

icantly affects society. and they

can give insights into the relationship between science and

society. People from other dis

ciplines, who have a solid know

ledge of a social or natural

science, often make valuable con

tributions to Canadian Student

Pugwash.

Canadian Student Pugwash is

established on a national basis.

Across the country. local univer

sity organizations are expanding

the network of interested people

while promotlng the discussion

of science and ethics issues. The

ational Office in Otta\\8 co

ordinates local and nationalact i Ii ties.

Canadian Student Pugwash

depends o n pri vate financial con

tributions to maintain these

activities. All such contributions

are tax deductible. Cheques

should be made out to the Youth

Science Foundation. Cdn. Std.

Pug wash and mailed to Can

adian Student Pugwash. Suit

805. 151 Slater Street. Ottawa.

Ontario. KIP 5H3. 0 donation

will in any way prejudice or restrict the activities of Canadian

Student Pugwash.

Cedars of

ebanon

featuring ... Lebanese Cuisinepecializing in Shish Kebab

& Vegetarian Cuisine

Room For Parties Up To 75 PersonsBook Now For Your Graduation Party

Call 742-4322 For Reservations

BELLY D NCERvery Friday Saturday in

our Mediterranean Lounge.2 King St. W. Kitchener(P<.l in Rear)

P**5 PointsEngineering Society B

Participation Points P**SWinter 1983

Participation Points are awarded on apercentage basis by the following

equation: ,

xn

x 1 0 ~ = P**5 points

x - number in attendance

n - number in class

Participation points will be awarded fort 'he following:

a) s e I T ~ formal

b) l e a g l l f teams (engineering and intram.)c) tournaments (engineering and intram.)d) individual sports (eng. and intramural)e) Engineering ~ e e k e n d eventsf) charity events

Points will be awarded according to howteams place in e ither minor or major

e v ~ n t s

Major Events Minor Events

1st - 20 points 1st 10 points

2nd - 10 points 2nd 5 points3rd 5 points 3rd 3 points

Major Events: scavenger hunt, pub rally ,tournaments (broomball, volleyball ,basketball) , bus push, snow bowl. etc.

Minor Events: arm wrestling, pinball,

d) Committees- Eng Soc 4 points/member

- other 3 points/member

e) Band- 1 point per performance per person

f) Charity Oriented Events

awarded a t discretion of P**S organizer- point value to be announced prior to event

g) Athletics

h)

i)

j

- convenor 10 pOints

official (league) 6 points- official t o u r n ~ a ~ m ~ e : n ~ t ~ ) ~ ~ 3 ~ . ~ p ~ O ~ i ~ n ~ t ~ ~ s ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~Special Events

- for outstanding contribu:ions by a class infurtlwring th<. Ilame, n:pl l t i l t ion (good or h,ld)

01' tra<.litions o f < ~ l l g i n l ' ( ; l ' I n g i l l Watcdoo

Event orgnnizal iOIl for Engill('L'ring W(.<kcnd

- points at discre t ion of P ~ ' 5 lll'g(lnizl'r

- single person m: imlull of lO point- commlttee maximum of 20 pOints

Semi. Formal- Class participation as per C'quution III

section l

committee members 5 points c(lLh

help at event i e UShLTS 2 points each

k Eng oc Exec.

- maXImum of ] 0 po ints a t di scretioJl of theEng Soc President

4. Notcs

chess, egg toss, etc. a) **N.B.** Fractions of points wil I be round cd upto the nearest point.

p**s points will be awarded for the follow- b)ing contributions:

Points are not awarded to l:ng S.)C Lxcc memb rswherc the particlpation is within the scope oftheir dutics.

a)

b)

c)

Eng Soc attendance by class rep

ful l attendance 25 points per classper team

- 5 points lost for each meetingmissed

EnginewsjIron Warrior contribution- 5 points per major article printed

1 point per minor item submitted

- contribution must be identified byENGINEWS/ IRatI WARRIOR editor

Beer Brewing

- S points for each beer entered (labelincluded

c) A running total wi he rn:linta inui throughout

the term. Standings wi 11 he: posted :'l fterEngineering We<:kcnd and printed in all

publications. The winner w i ~ l b ~ n ~ o u n c e d atthe End of Term Pub.

.J) Class reps arc responsl ble for submi Tng l i s t s

of teams, commjttee members, etc. to the P**Sorganizer.

e) Deadlines will be announced form submissions

from class reps. Points will not be awardedfor following such dealines (however loss willresult for nnt following them).

First Deadlin e

Class l i s t s are due, Friday, January 14, 1983.



ES

6. Iron Warrior

Waterloo Engineers

Enter OED CompetitionThis year's Ontario Engin

eering Design Compet iti on isbehind held at Queen's Univer

sity in Kingston on the weekend

of March 4, 5, and 6. Although it isnow too late for any fu rther

entries (the entry deadline was

December 1st last year), Water-

Poor Wayne Levin. He's the president of U of T 100 is se nding a con tingent with

Engineering. But that's not why he's in a bad way. The at least one entry in each

highlight of the CCES '83 was not the Queen's ralli e draw category.

f h hThe category of Entrepren-

or a nig t wit one of Van couver 's finest [certainly not apolice woman ). His problem, you see, is that he won the eurial Design is for those designs

of products or processes notraffle - what would you do? He politely declined and currently of Canadian origin. i.e.offered th e mon ey for beer for everybody, not a bad second if a person has a creati ve notion.alternative really. this is the place to enter. Sven

The CCES '83 . held in Vancouver from January 5-9 annd Dickinson and Louis Gaiot, both

host ed by UBC. was much more than typical engineering of 48 Systems Design, and Robpranks . With the th eme of "The Engineer Adapting to aChanging World", th e focus of th e speakers and Harvey. also of 4B Systems

discussions were centredon Canada's eco nomic problems Design, with his conflict An-

and how toda y's engineers have to cope with the recent alysis program.lack of employment. The category of Corporate

Design is for entrants who are .Head given a set problem currently

Waterloo Eng Soc sent five delegates to Vancouver: without an adequate solution by

Chris Carter (38 SO), Judy Runn a ll s (38 ME), Pete Cliff an industrial planner. The UW(3BME),DenisVanDecker(3BCHl,andJuneDaSilva(2A t ~ entry is the teamo Nick de SI.

CH). With "A" Soc's fiv e delegates. Wat erloo was well .. Croix and Rob Peters of 4B Elec-represented. Most schools across Canada attended, with trical Engineering who havethe female proportion increase d substantially (quality, Discuss ion Group: Academic Dif fe rences chosentheproblemoftheswitch-

too). The organizers, UBC, found themselves in th e Between Uni v rsi t i e s over to a backup power supplypeculiar position of having to be a little responsible for not presen ted by Northern Telecom.only their actions but also everybody els e's. It s hould be The category of Editorial Com-remembered that UBC delegates a t CCES '82. ho s ted by I t was i n t e r e s t i n g to l ea rn about the many munications is to give entrants aWaterloo, sunbathed outside th e farme r's mar ket in a v a r i a t i o n s in e n g i neer ing d i s c i p l i n e s and chancetoexpness a nopinionona

snow storm . co urs es o f f e r e d a t t he u n i v e r s i t i e s ac ross technical issu e of significant

With our large contingent. Wat erloo was able to cover Canada. Wat e r loo i s the on] y s::hool wi th a social impact. The first team isall seminars and discussions. Good prank ideas. other tha t of Cliff Menezes and Marksocial events. and differe ntial organizational app roa ches co-op program beginning in f i r s t year , bu t Turchan, 'both of 48 Syst emswerediscussedatworkshops.Thespeakersarediscussed Sh e rbrooke , Ottaw a , Unive r s i ty o f Albe r ta an d Design, and the second entry isin anotherseclion. othe r s have e i t h e r four o r f i v e work t e rms . that of Chris Franklin, of lB

Head The Univers i ty o f Br i t i s h Columbia has a f i v e Mechanical Engineering with hisUBC did a damn fine job of organization. The delegates year co u r se c o n s i s t i n g o f one year o f gene ra l entryofTax Incentives. R&D and

were never bored and theevents hod enou gh ex Ira time to Progress for Canadian Trans-allow for run-on which alw ays occurs. The soc ial eve nt s sc i ence , one year o f g en era l enginee r ing an d portation.

included a pub rally by foot. a dan ce at UBC. and a Lady th ree years of mo r e spec ia l i zed courses . We The last category is that ofGodiva parade around downtown - this ev ent made B.C. a re probably t he only u n iv e r s i t y t h a t ha s no Expana tory Communications,

television, but not national. compu 1sory Engl i s h prof ic iency t e s t s o r which is to research and present aThe plenary s8saioo was eBpecially boring llo be . . £ technical top ic of current social

wri t ing co r s e s or enginee r s . Some u n i v r s i t i ~expected). T'm bored writing thi s. So 'II s top. i ~ l 8 8 1 . The UW en.try hers is

wri t e work r e p o r t s in a d d i t i o n to t h i s . As fo r Arnim Lillek of 4B Electrical

Speakers t he diSCipl ines avai l ab le , the re a re many which EngineeringwiththethemeFibreI wouldn't want to bore you with tou much information e t f f h 11 1 Optl·CS·. What's ln I t for Us?

b h k b h h h k w 0 no 0 e r suc as meta u r g l c a , mat e r i a l s ,a oul eae s pea cr. ut s in ce I sa t t mllg t P. spea crs Each of the 4 categories has an If 1 f 1 U s h II j th h r i n d u s t r water r es ource and b io lo g i c a lly s e , ee yo ou t ( I sa me d .. $500 prize for first place. a $400

Dr . I..M . Wedepohl ,l hd)('anofAppliedScipnceatllBC , g i n e e r j ~ g The Univers i ty o f Regina i s prizeforsecondplaceanda$300

e n ~ d th e r.onf(lfp ncf with the IIsual "Wclwm ' to g en era 1 i.zed for t lv O yea r s , then o f f e r s a choice prize for 3rd place .Vancouver" remarks. Tlwrt, was nothing particularly Although the entry deadline

remarkable. however, in what hr sai d. between reg i ona I , i n d u s t r i a l , and el ec t ron lC for the 1984 competit ion is still aTheD puty.MinisterofUnivPl' s itirs ,Sde nce,a ndCom - d d h th 1 longwayoff , itmaybethelimeto

f h. f h (' I I ' D sys tems cSlgn , an t esc a re e on y ones

munica t ion or t c provlnc(' () Brltls ,() urn )la, r. start thinking about an entry forRobert W. Stewurt, discussed th . I'rnploYIl1 nt of they ha v e . ~ o s t 0 f t he discuss ion groups lhe next round of competition.engineers across Canada . The flu ctuat ion s in th e demand se emed to b e succes s fu 1 e i ther in terms o f Work term projects or project

for engineers is esse ntially cyclicnl. 111 believ es. Dr. i n format ion , o r ex c hange o f methods and idea s . co urses may be used, providing

Stewart pre se nted graphs which su pported this view for Ther e were some good arguements dur ing t h i s permission ha s been obtainedCanada. The problems of unemployment and unrlcr- d k from the requisite individual(s).

I f . h f I d ' onc, and t he smal l e r groups encourage spea lngemp oyment or englneers, e ee s. WI soo n Isa ppellr. And th ere is no reason whatso-Blair Wilson, a prufess orat U£lCand not anf ngineer, o u t . I t i s a good i dea for a confe rence . everthattheentrylistneedbeas

took exception to Dr.Stewart's view . Mr . Wilson feels that dominated by the 4th year

the cyclical activity con be halted. As 80 ' . of the June DaSilva students as our current entry .engineering gratluates in the next five years will be in Good ideas don't start in fourthsupervisory positions. Mr . Wilson contends that if year . . .

engineersreceivedhumanrelationstrainingasanintegral ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ _ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~part of the undergraduate program, the cycle would bestopped. He feels that engineers have the poten ialto usetheir superior technical skills in humAn relations.

A rambling dissertation by Ron Jeffles was presented.

tit led, "God, Man. Woman, Centaurs, Devils .Shearlines inMetal. Cyborgs. Sundry Machines and the Ars Poetica ofAristotle (A Brief and Furious Canter through ModernThoughl)". Enough said - it helped our lack of sleep.

Tom Sidden is a professional engineer and a Member ofParliament (Conservatives). He believes thaI Canada's

prul)lems are due to some political decisions such asAlsands, the National Energy Program. and the Nuvember

Federal Budget. He discussed further the Cunservative's

approach to Canada's ills. During questions afterward.

there uccurred a spirited and healed discussiun between

Sidden and Angelo Grassa of Waterloo A whi ch provided

needed relief for all the delegates .The technical session of the conference presented th e

construction of the B. C. Place Stadium. For$125 milliondollars and two years in construction, V a n c o ~ l v e r is thefirst Canadian city to have a covered football and baseball

stadium. The roof is of interest because of its "inflated"

design. Through a sel'ies of slides, the r o g r e ~ s of the roofconstruction was presented - hopef ul ly, the post

publication will include some of these slides. The panel

discussion title was "The Role of the Engineer vis-a-vis

The Engineering Technologist". certainly a timely topic.As can be expected. a minor war ensued between thetechnologist representatives and the delegates. but it was

generally agreed that more communication is needed toestablish the technologist's position in engineering work.



Iron Warrior 7.

Blair Wilson Speaks OfHuman Relations

T raining as Economicure at ES

Canadian Engineers have con

linually had a detrimental effect

on the economy of Canada. an

adolescent giant in chains. The

key problem is that Canada's

most prolific management pro

fession continues to assume that

to be a human is to understand

one. Blair Wilson, a past em

ployee relations consultant for

M.C.A. of B.c., speaking at the

Fifteenth Congress of Canadian

Engineering students continued

by saying tha t to be human is at

best to understand oneself. To

understand humans and to be

able to deal with them, man

agers (read engineers) must take

effective learning training in the

Human Relations Field .

An unmotivated subordinate

or peer faced with an unelighten

ed engineer may quite easily

think, Why should I listen to

your perfectly logical argue

ments, even i you are a P.Eng,

when I can not stand you? Mr.

Wilson believes that inthe next3-

5 years the main obstacle to econ

omic health will not be foreign

competition or lack of funds but

rather this inability to get people

to do things (motivation)_

The brunt of this motivation

problem falls square ly on the

shoulders of engineering trained

individuals who constitute 41%

of the executive business leaders

in Canada. Instead of aggres

sively attacking the root of the

problem, Canadian managersl

engineers have accepted the

symptoms of the problems (tardiness, absenteeism, pilfering,

sabotage, et cetera) as business

risks. The result of these biness risks is totally unaccept-

able levels of waste 1 5 t040%-

in the cost of production. ThefuaIt of this waste ultimately lies

with the management , not the

employees. As Mr. Wilson sees it ,

one third to one half of today's

managers (and most engineers)

are management misfits prim

arilyclue to the practice of 1950's

management techniques. Ultim

ately, the motivation problems

that plague most workers in

every industry (only 1I3rd of a

plant maintenance worker's time

is productive) affect the econ

omic health of the country .

Al though the present recession

is a dramatic indicator of the

state of industry and manage

m ~ n t (most bankruptcies occur

in companies with 100% engin

eering managemenI , Canada has

a lw a ys been and always will be

the country of the future . We

could resign ou rsel ves to the fact

that we are helpless innocents

inheriting this mess or we can

take steps to make Canada the

coun try of the present and future.

History is filled with examples of

simple innovations, difficult to

initially accept, producing dram

atic results. The feeding of limes

to British seamen made the

limeys the finest fleet in the

world. Surgeons washing hands

bet ween operations dramatic

ally increased survival rates of

surgery' patients.

Similarly, the introduction of

effective Human RelationsTraining in every engineer's ed

ucation will allow Canada to per

manently shake its image of an

industrial d ~ n o s a u r bo r e e 0

the way t the dinosaur.

NewCCESPeriodical

ProposedInitially, disc ussion centered on the thrust in ontent

that would be required to produce a national e n g i n ~ e r i n gperiodical which would be both interesting to I he a \'erage

student and respectable enough to be A formal

mouthpiece.

The group IVas informed of the work done by SRm

Fujimoto of Queen's who envisioned a glossy Co ered

national magazine which he had priced et $12000 for

30000 copies. Because of the lack of con census in t he group

on the initial topic, people were apprehensive about

making a quantum leap from the CCES newsletter to a full

blown publication . As a result of these misgi ings , acompromise solution wa s . found . The concept is as

follows:

Queen's will produce an expanded CCES newsletter

named (XXXXXXXXXX) to be produced in a newsprintmagazine format. The initial run of 15000 copies will be

produced inthe fall of 1983 . Submissions will be due in

September, each school will be responsible for sub mitting

roughly 1000 words of copy. The submission should

consist of two segments; one which describes the serious

side of the society's operation, and, one which would

enlighten people as to the less formal and arguabI y more

interesting things that they have been up to (anythinghumourous would do].

Mr. Rivington obligated Queen 's t'o circulate a hypo

thetical cost sheet to at least two schools whoseeeE :; organlzll1g commitees might be tinancially

responsible for it; UBC and Western.

This publication is seen as a transitional phase. It wil l

be used to guage the level of interest in the different

subjects of discussion. This will be accomplished by

incorporating a questionnaire in tbe magazine. These

results will be used to determine what area of emphasis

would produce the most informative and most read

publication. The participants also felt that it was

important that schools have formal CCES newsletter

liaison people so that the responsibjlit y does not get

delegated in to the infinitesimal spark of the eternal,

seething cauldron of oblivion.From Waterloo A So cie ty Anit a Van DenHurk w as th e

app ointed liai 0 as werEl D is al eck r nd hris

Carter for the Waterloo "8" Society.

Dave i v i n ~ t o n

InnovativeVehiclesDesignCompetition

Two students from UBC arecurrently organizing this com

pet it ion as part of the 1986 World

E position (Exp086)tobeheldin

Vancouver B.C. from May 2 to

October' 13, 1986. The intent of

this competition is to foster

student innovation and to pro

vide a practical application of

theory for engineering students.

This competition is intended to

field a showcase of new ideas to

the public .

To encourae new and original

work in automotive des.ign, the

scoring methods will stress in

novation where innovation will

be defined as either a totally new

idea or en origina l appl ication of

an old idea . Ultimately, the goal

of the competition is to inspirethe contestants to review the

pUl'pose and function of the au to -

mobile rather than to make

marginal changes to a desig.n,

which, in its essential elements

has not changed in sixty years.

Preliminary plans for this

competi ti on have already been

sent to 55 universities in Canada

and the US. Since this isa World's

Fair en tr ies may be world wide

and will be limited to a max

imum of 100. The University of

Waterloo should make an effort

to produce an entry for this com

petition since it will be a widely

publicized event. Anyone can

work on the design and con

struction, but since the com

petition is in 1986, students from

first and se cond years are especia lly need ed. W a lch [or d e

tails in th next few months .

Judy Runnalls



Iron Warrior 8.

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886-3350

RESSA Conference - Pure PANDAmonium

First of all, what is RESSA?

RESSA stands for "Regional

Engineering Student Societies

Association" with theconference

being a get-together for all of the

Engineering Societies in Ontario

and Quebec .The most re cent con

ference was held in October 1982and was hosted by the Univer

sity of Olta wa. The topic for th isco nferenc e was "Co mputers and

the Engineer".Priday marked the arrival of

the delegates from Western.

Windsor, Waterloo , McMaster, Uof T, Queen's, Carlton, McG ill ,Laval , Conr.ordia l nci Sher brooke. The Watl r loo delega tion

was made up of P( te Cliffe. Chr isCarter, Rob Cooper. Neil Payne

and Greg Franks . The evening

began with a wine and cheese

party which a llowed th e variousdelegates to get to know each

other .After most of I he d e lega tes had

arrived, we HII went to a "Prc

Panda party" at U of O. The firstparty we arrived a t was not tooexciting. The band was te rrib le:the music was measured in

Richter 's, not dB. So almosteverybody went on to a seco nd

party near by.

The conference organizers had

lined up three speakers. Each

speaker was to speak on the roleof the microcomputer for th eengineer. In this case we are

refering to the use of the com

puter; not the programmingthereof.

The first speake r's topic was

"Computers and the Engineer". It

was one user's account on how

the computer had simplified

routine work. He specifically

dealt with "Pile analysis" (Civilengineering stuff). Initially. this

work was done with a slide rule

and took. on average, seven days

to complete. Then came the BIGcomputers, like the machines inthe Red Room. The job was

shortened to three days. Forms

had to be filled in, then some poorclerk had to enter the data intothecomputer (usually with cards),and the listings returned. Invar

iably there would be errors, so

the entire process had to be

repeated. Clearly, this was not

too efficient.

Enter the 1980'S, and with it.

the microcomputer. Now pile

analysis takes 30 minutes.

Rather than filling out cod ingforms, the engineer enters all of

the data himself. and stores it on afloppy disk for future reference.The user does nol need to know

how to program the machine at

all

The second spea ker, Marc

Morin , dealt with the topic of " the

role of the computer in data

acquisi tion and engine analysis" .

This was something our Mech anical Engineer lPete Cliffe) waslooking forward too . Unfortunat ely, our delegation did not get

much out of this topic. [n keeping

with th e b i l i n ~ u a l nature nf thecon fe rence, Mr . Mor in spokl' inFrench. The Quebec delegations

were quite pleased . so that's the

main thin g.

Th e third speakcl' talk ed about

th e role of microcomputers Hndthe Rid eau Ccnt re proj c t inOttawa. Fl ashback: Ottawfl is agovernment town , so the projec thas n plus 1 parties involved: the

Feds. th e Provin cialgovel'Oment.Co unty government. and city

government all want to be (and

nre) involved . [n addition. the

Rideau Centre has a co nvention

centre, department store. park ing garage, hotel , and shopping

mall. They are all part of one

building and are owned by

different parties. But, this istypical for Ottawa Clearly, the

only thing that could possibly

straighten out this nightmare

was a computer. [n this case itwas one TRS-80 .

This completed th e o ~ f e r e n c epart of the conference - it was

time to move onto other t in s-and in our case, the Panda

Game.

The Panda Game is a Football

Game between the University of

Ottawa and Carleton. The name

"Panda" was adopted when theUniversity of Ottawa decided the

game needed some publicity.

They brought a large stuffed

Panda Bear and stated that itwould be given tothe victorofthe

game. It was stored in a visible

location in downtown Ottawa.

However, the Ottawa people

proceeded to steal "Pedro" (the

stuffed bear).and blame Ottawa.

Well, to make a long story short,

the publicity stunt worked and

later resulted in a rich tradition

for Pedro (who is now stored at

C.S.C.E.What is it? CSCE stands for the

Canadian Scoeity for Civil Engineering. So what? For three

years now a local CSCE student

section was formed for the

benefit of civil engineering students and any others that may beconcerned with what's happen

ing in the Civil Engineering

world. (I'll bet you didn't know

that a computer program named

ELAPLAS was available to sim

ulate th e load-defo rmation behaviour in a welded truss-joint

s ubj ected to a prescribed trans

verse s hear load - sou nd mind

boggling?)

One a more serious note CSCE

offers to you, the student, an opportunity to meet with oth ers in

Civil Engineering with similarInt erests and to keep up with

d e ~ e l o p m e n t s in Civil Engin

ee fln g. It provides a fMum for theexchange of ideas and infor

matIOn between students, facand profesSional engi neers

In Industry. It also pr ovi des forsoclal con tacts between students

of dIfferent Course optio ns , academ IC years and st reams, a nd

(except Carlton) were on th e U ofo side of th e field . Otti:1wa took

the lead ea rl y in th e first quarter

with a field goa l, a nd never

looke d back. Final score: 19 to 7

for U of O.The next item on the age nd a

w as to get toget her all of th eEngineering Societies fora work

shop dealin g with "Eng Soc and

relations with the student body".

The room was filled with peoplebarely alive. The most notabletopic of the meeting was BoaRacing. T his activity is perfec tl ylegal in Quebec (as far as we

know), so mayhe this ~ r e a t sport

can be resurrected .The conference wrapped up

with a luncheon a t th e University

of Ottawa. Everybody had agood

time. Many thanks to th e o rgan

izers for doing a fine job.G. Franks

between students and faculty

members in order to imrpove

communications and under

standing between the various

groups.

How do they do this? Each term

a schedule of events is arranged

consist ing of general interest

talks and seminars. They are

usually Thursdays from 11:30 to

12:30. Students are invited tobring a lunch and if you're early,

you may get a don u and/or coffee

provided free by CSCE. These

ta lks are well advertised in ad

vance so keep an eye out for the

flyers telling you when and

where. This terms activities

include talks on:- Northern /Arc tic Construc

tion - Ralph Haas '- Computer-Aided-Design

Computervision - Greg Prentice

- Reinforced Asphalt - A. D.

Abde l Halim

- CSCE National Lecture

To ur - Water Resources - Rolf

Kelie rha Is .CSCE a lso subsc ri bes to var

ious magazines for Ci viI Engineers. These include:

- E. l. C. Engineering Journal

- NRC Canadian Journal of

Civil Engineering

ASCE Civil Engineering

Getting interested? What can

you do? The easiest way topartiCipate is as an audience. So

grab your lunch and come out to a

talk. These talks are about 45

minutes in length and allow you

lots of time to move to your next

class. If this catches your inter

est. then you could go one stepfurther and join the local studentchapter. The fee is $20 for one

year which includes a sub

scription to the Engineering

Journal a nd to the Canadian

Journal of Civ il Engineeri ng(more about this next week). Fin ally. if you're really interestedyou can help the executive plan

and execute these even ts. The

local student section is relatively new and is still suscep

tible to early childhood dis

eases. New talen t a nd energy isalways welcome (and needed). fyou would lik e to help , contact

Grieg. Garland, 4B Civil, this

term's chairman . You can also

leave your name wi th Marilyn

Clarke in the Department of CivilEngineering office. So when yo usee the fl yer advertising the first

event, take a few minutes a nd bean audience.

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* IFIRST-RATE RATES *IINO FEES *

There are no fees WIth our DepOSIt Plant or Guaranteed Rate Plan So If you are not recelvmgthe benefit of a "No-Fees' RSP at your bank. transfer your present RSP to a Commerce

·No·Pees - plan now and save

TWO EXCELLENT PLANS--**.IDEADLINE MARCH T--

C N DI N IMPERI L

B NK OF COMMERCE

+Early cancellatton charge of $25.00 if closed within one year.

RRSPsWhile RRSPs were originally

designed to pro ide retirement

income. under present lax leg

islation they can pnwide a val

uable income a eraging (and

consequently la reduclion) ve

hicle for Co-op Students.

It is possible. by liming contri

butions and withdrawals of

RRSPs properly to defer la on

up to $5,500.00 or 20% of earned

income in any onc year. The

amount of income deferral nvail -

9. Iron Warripr

Co-op

obs

Cont. From Page 1able through RRSPcontributions "It's the first-year students

is limited to 20%of earned income we're having problems with.

or $5,500.00, \ hichever is less. If They've had four months at uni

you are a member of a pension versity, mostly from Grade 13,plan other than CPP with your and they dOll" have the academic

1982 employer the overall max- background or the skills yet to

imum contribution is reduced to handle some of the jobs avail

$3,500.00. able to intermediate and senior

Specifically income deferral is students."

accomplished by contributing to First-year engineering stuan RRSP in the first sixty days of dents trAditionally get such jobs

1983 and designating this cont ri - as elect ricians' assistants or

bution as deductable against mechanics' helpers, Wilson says,

1982 income. The funds can then but those jobs have dried up.

be immediately withdrawn and "The employment in the manu

taken against 1982 income. The facturing industri es in Ontario iseffect of this deferral iS,ofcourse, very restricted at the present

to decrease taxable income in the lime. That's where our greatest

1982 taxation year and increase area of concern is."taxable income in the 1983 "The steel industry used 10

taxation year. This deferral of' employ a large number of stuincome combined with a Co-op dents (as well as) Ihe pulp and

student's variable income from paper industry and the mining

year to year, has the effect of industry in particular. But it's

"smoothing" income. Due to the slim pickings these days for

variable tax rate structure in people in those industries."

Canada this results in reduced There are also fewer studenttaxes or, possibly, the elimin- jobs in the oil and petrochemical

ation of taxes. As an example a industries, he says.

taxpayer with an income in 1982 Wilson /lays many studentsof $12,000.00, resident in Ontario had interviews lined up after

and single could expect to reduce their Christmas exams, and he

1982 taxes by approximately expects to hear many have found

$652.00 by making a con tribulion jobs over Christmas.

of $2,400.00 to an RRSP. This Still, he has called extra people

$2,400.00 would of course be in during the last two weeks to

taxable in 1983. If however 1983 keep calling employers who

is a year in which the student might hire students.

attends classes for 8 of the 12 Studenls also were sent homemonths the marginal tax rate with kits explaining how to hunt

= ~ ~ ~ ~ r ~ ~ ' ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ t a ~ ~ j ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ U L ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ = : ~ ~ - - ~ ~ ~ r i ~ ~ ~ ~ r m a ~ b M t l ° f t w 1 e , r ~ a t i n ~ d t ~ f « o Q r A i o , , , b ~ s ~ . ~ ~ ~ ~4 ,:rI ,

On the Rocks???We've all seen 'em. Every term,

the class rep comes around and

hands out question sheets, com

puter cards, and for the am

bitious, comment sheets, But do

we ever really see anything for

our efforts?

If you ever want to improve

your lo t in life, you are going tohave to make at least some effort.

We are locked into a rigid

program for 6 semesters, which

doesn't allow us much choice inselecting our professors anyway,

so what's the point?

By the time you get to fourth

year though, you've seen a lot of

professors. And that is when you

have at least a little say in who

will be teaching you. But how

many of you are even a ware of Ihe

fact that Eng Soc has past results

of course critiques available for

your perusal?

That's not really what they are

there for though. Professors are

highly qualified professionals

who lead verv independent Collr

eers. One of the attractions of the

job is the freedom that comes

wltn being an academic. There is

less responsibility to a higher up

than in an industiral position.

Professors are nol used to having

someone looking over their

shoulders.

Because of that, they ha ve very

little feedback on their teaching

abilities. Unless · you make an

individual effort to tell a pro

fessor where he might improve

there is virlually nothing, he

sides course critiques, which

could set him straight.We scoff at Ihem, but course

critiques are taken seriously.

They are used in departmental

evaluations of professors, don't

kid yourself. If this wasn't the

case, why did Professor Koewen

of Ci vii Engineering write "due to

previous inconsistencies and the

ad hoc manner in which the

course critiques are adminis

tered, the Department of Civil

Engineering is withdrawing its

support for the program." Sim

ilar sympathies have been ex

pressed by the Department of

Chemical Engineering. If indeed

the course critiques were simply

ignored, such statements would

The Verybest

STUDENT

STUFFER

Try our

famous3 Foot Sub

6.50

hardly be necessary.

Why all the discontent now?

Apparently the people who wOlnt

out of the course cri t iques are dis

satisfied with the consistency

and applicability of the ques

tions used. In order to have any

validity, the questions firstly

have to be relevant and secondly

have to stay on the question form

for a number of terms, to give the

statistics some validity. It is pOllr

practice to try 10 generali:le on asingle set of data. That is another

reason why we, as students, will

not see instant feedback the

following semester.

Discontent also stems from the

inconsistency with which com

puter cards are filled out. Why

should a professor take some

thing seriously when 67 out of

118 students reply. or worse, 54

out of 112, as happened to some

samples from last summer'scritiques?

If this discontent spreads to

other departments, the entire

process of course critiques may

have to beshelved. Theonlycon

sisten method of e t t i n ~ profes

sors know how and what they are

doing n the classroom is

threatened . . .

That leaves it up 10 us. And not

just the select few who do things

voluntarily anyw ay. What does

it cost each one of us to sit down

and realistically evaluate ourprofessors? Ten minutes of our

time, perhaps? The professors

even make time in lect ures, so t is

not really as if we are giving up

something. Think about iI. And

when the time comes, fill out

those computer cards con

scientiously.

attracl taxes.

Typical costs of the trans- Co-op students who don'tfl(;tiOIl should 110t ( Plld $7 i.no. renlly hllVl' th .. IIptilll of dlUIlH

This includes t(,I'mlll,llion [I' ' 1 illH tlll'll' sdl . tillio tu SPI'IHI n$25.VO and inttlt'1 st 1111 t1WIH'Y work II l m in Ilcho()I,llilwll nil till'11llrrowI,d 10 mllkt' till' contt'i dUllsronm Iw.lls l in' filh d hy

but ion . •st util'nts n't IIr'nin from t hi:II should II(' notl'd thllt with previous work tcrlll .

drawals from RRS(Js i11'(' suh] (; t Wilson fluitl nu IlinMI I l l -

to f\ I()% withuhbng tax. For pluy('r 01' HrnuJI nll'mploYI rll isrxamplc, on a withtlrllwnl of msponsiblr fOI" Ih ' clllplnynwnt

$2,400.00 from an RRSP $240.00 probhml, lIinct' Itt 1( l1I11 1,500

would he withheld by till' RHSP employt 1'/1 111:1'0116 the (:{)unlryissue and rllJt1ittoo to Ihl c'nv- hit'l ct) op /jlut.ltlIlIH.

I ~ r n m e n t . This witholding tax is "Jt'/j 1\ microcosm of the CIll

of course a erllc1it towardl'l lHH:i ployment Illtulltitln in Onlario

liabililtes . nnd the I".'st of Cannda," hI' says,

The BookStore

LUCKY DRAWThe Book Store Will Be Having

A Calculator Draw

With Every Purchase of 1.00 or More

You Get A Chance on n HP16C or

HP34C Calculator

Draw Will Be Made January 28 1983



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EngineeringWeekend

Thursda I Fridav

January 27 January 28

Parade 12:30 Judge Seulof Snow?

1:30 Paper Airplane

1:00 Dog Sled R2:00 Pinball Tourne

1:30 Rubik s Cu3: 00 ' X-Country Ski

2:00 Tug-O-War8:00 Pub

7:00 Night DownHill Ski

Saturday Sunday

January 29 January 30

9:00 9:00

1 ub no

Rally Bowl

4:00

4:01 Super

Bowl



Letters from lDyDadDea r S co t t,

So vo u want to learn ahollt

Mar keting, eh? Well. let's beginwith some basic defi nitions.

Marketing is the se t of h umanac tivi ties directed a t facil itati ng and co nsu mmat ing exchanges .

Marketing Management isth e a nalysis , planning , imple mentation, and control of program s des igned to bring a boutdesired exchanges with target

audiences for the purpose of

personal or mutual gain.

Both of these defjnitions are

taken from Philip Kotlers 1)book "Marketing Management

analysis, planning and control" .The emphasis on the profitmoti ve is mine because I believethat profit is so fundamental tothe success of the enterprise that

marketers must be cognizant ofthe impact that their activity ishaving on profit. I emphasize this

because I believe that still today

all too many "Marketers" are

volume or revenue oriented and

not margin or profit oriented.

price, promotion, and place tosuit his own system. McCarthy

seems to fee l tha t his sequence

has some logical adva ntages an dI agree for reaso ns we'll soo n see.

All th ese defini tio ns boil

down to the fac t th at Market

ing is the satisfaction of cus

tomer needs in a manner that

insures the continued profit

ability of the enterprise.

Which brings us all th e way

around to needs The classical categorization

of needs can be found in Abra ham Maslow's 3) book "Mot ivation and Personality" . In itMaslow arranges human needs

into a five level heirarchy .Maslow proposes that thelower needs must first be sat·

sHied before the higher needs

emerge. One must eat, even atthe risk of life but once one isfull and hunger no longer dom inates, then one begins to work

towards eliminating danger.

And when one is no longer endangered, then the need for loveand affection and belonging

emerges. After this need 0 nreferred to as the social eed)comes the need for estee and

finally the need for self-ac ual-

Weiser,

Coordination a s p ~ y home

11. lion Warrior

XPR SSorner of University

and Phillip

884 9220

Stream Change Stopped

Like the QEMF, the stream

change issue came to an abrupt

halt during the off term . Apparently enough resistance was

encountered by the folks in coordination and placement that

the plan to convert both streams

to concurrent 8 month streams in4th year ran aground.

The resistance came not only

fromstudents

,but some of the de

partments within the faculty de

cided it wasnotthebest way togo

and Dr. Peter Roe, Associate

Dean, recommended indefinite

shelving of the plan to the Under

graduate Affairs Committee.

Kotler's Marketing Manage

ment definition goes on - It

relies heavily on the adaptation

and co-ordination of product ,place, promotion, and price for

achieving effective response".

These are the 4-P's of Marketing

and I've taken the liberty to put

them in McCarthy's 2) original

order. Kotler has them product,

iza Ii on . Read Ch a p ter 5 i l . : : : . ~ ~ I = i i i i i i ; ; ; ~ ~ ~ ~ ; ; ; ; ; 2 : = = = = = = - : - -Maslow's book for a full d e ." - lf ~ ; i ; ~ ~ : { ~ ~ ; ~ i l : F : ~ omputer Gap e·tliVeen I n d u s t r ~Marketing.

A Hierarchy of Needs and Waterloo

ClosingMaslow Self Customer

by G. R. Sullivan andPr ucthysiological

Safety

Belongingness

Esteem

Food

Shelter. -_

Love, Affection

Achievement, Recognition

Promotion The traditional gap in process

Price control between industry and

academia is partly due to the useof large control systems inindustry and smaller. low cost

systems in the academic environ

men\. The University of Water

loo has recently acquired the use

of the Advanced Control System

(ACS) from IBM. This large scale

process computer control soft-

Self Actualization ( Is it here where the circle

squares itself in th e Taoist style?

"When once you are free from allseeming, from all cra ving and

lusting, then will you move of

your own impulse. without so

much as knowing that you

move." - Lao Tse 4)

It seems to me that the primary

need of a customer is for a

product. To begin with, anythingthat works, even a bit, is better

than nothing. For instance, in an

hydraulic application water willwork after a fashion, - never

below zero degrees C and if the

pressure is low not much above

100 degrees.c. The system willrust and wear quickly. but it will

work - sometimes. After water

the customer looks for a sustain

ing product, a satisfactory mineral oil with some wear and rust

inhibiting a d d i t i v ~ s . Now he can

stop worrying about "physio

logical needs", his "hunger" for a

product is satisfied and he canmove on to "safety" needs.

Can he get this product on a

regular basis in the q u ~ n t i t i e sthat he requires? He doesn t want

to have to shut down his oper

ation now that it's working well.So ~ ' s a f e t y needs are next, and

the marketer's ability to satisfy

this customer need bycontinuing

to position his products in atimel y manner is essential beforethe higher needs acti vate.

But - just like in "Real Life"these lower level needs are

normally satisfied and it is theneeds of belongingness and esteem that are important. To a wellfed, unendangered being practic

ally everything looks less important than belonging or esteem

(even sometimes the physio-

logical and safety needs, which

being satisfied are now under

estimated) .The customer can get a good

product on a regular basis fromseveral sources. What does hecare about the product you're

selling or about your unique

abilities to deliver regularly?

He's now worried about the

prestige associated with using

the best product available and

having obtained it for the best

price. Price often seems to be the

most important need only because all other needs are sat

isfied and out of mind. But let the

market suffer for supply and the

product become scarce then pricequickly becomes unimportant.

Remember - satisfying cus

tomer needs profitably is themarketers function: Product,

Place, Promotion and Price are

the tools that the marketer works

with.

And finally, remember that

Profit is Dot a four letter word.

More about that next time.Love, Dad.

Footnotes:1) Philip Kotler. "Marketing Manage·

ment : anatysis. planmng and cllntrol,"second edition (Prentice.Hall Inc .1972)

(2) E1eromeMcCarthy. "Basic Markeling :A Manageriat Approach." sixth edition(Richard D. Irwin, Inc . 1975)

(3) A. H. Maslow. "Motivation and Pcrsonality:' second edition (Harper and

Row 1970)(4) Laotzu 's Tao and Wu We Goddard

translahon (Brentano·s. 1919)

ware pac)<age representing' the

latest technology will be highly

beneficial tothe university

forboth teaching and research pur

poses.Many previous research

papers have reported a large

"gap" between academia and

industry relative to the meth

odologies and implementation of

computer process control strat

egies. This gap is also very

evident in the type of hardware

used in the imp lementation of

computer control. Traditionally,

for a variety of reasons, chem

ical engineering departments de-

cided in the sixties and seventies

to purchase minicomputer hard

ware in combination with some"home grown" software for control applications. Although this

approach had the advantage oflower capital cost, the resulting

environment has been less than

ideal for both teaching and research. The industrial prac

titioners, on the other hand, have

tended toward larger scale pro

cess control systems available

from a number of vendors that

are equipped with standard,

proven, and reliable process

r;ontrol software packages. Inlight of recent trends in decreasing computing hardware

costs and increased development

manpower costs, it may beworthwhile for academia toconsider the industrial approach.

State of Art Equipment

at WaterlooThe University of Waterloo

has recently acquired IBM's Advanced Control System (ACS)which represents the state-of

the-art in medium to large scale

industrial process control sys

tems. In the short time since installation, we have discovered

everal advantages for this type

of system that are specific to theacademic environment. These

advantages are directly related

to the size of the system - thevery reason many academic institutions have steered away

from large scale packages. Fromour viewpoint. there is no doubt

that ACS will ha v.e a significant

impact on teaching and research

of process control in chemical

engineering.

Universities may

Pool ResourcesOne of the strongest potential

benefits of adapting a large scale

industrial system goes beyond

those obtained by a single

university. In the past it has beenvirtually impossible to transfer

software relating to process

control between any univer

sities. This is mainly attribut

able to the fact that most of theuniversities have generated-their

own "base system" for process

control. With standard systems

such as ACS, the portability of

developed tutorials, classroom

simulations, advanced control

strategies from one university

location to another becomessimple. In this manner we can seea synergism in having several

uni versities acq uire the same

large scale process control sys

tem. A common effort will

greatly reduce overall develop

ment time for both course work

and laborator instruction.

We are now in the process ofdeveloping the Advanced Con

trol System beyond the confines

of the single university. In cooperation with IBM, we are

working on developing an ACS

Educational Users Group where

by other universities, w·ithout

communicate wit our CS soFtware system over high speed

telecommunication lines. These

universities can then use the ACS

system in simulation mode and

obtain all of the benefits des

cribed in the educational section .In addition we are actively en

hancing the simulation capab

ilities of the ACS system. We are

now developing an interface bet

ween ACS and a dynamic simul

ation package SPEEDUP which

has been developed at Imperial

College in London, England. The

SPEEDUP system isa very structured dynamic simulation pack

age with a wide range of process

unit modules and interfaces tophysical property packages. Inthis manner, it can easily produce

dynamic simulators of complex

process units , S a basis forcontrol studies.

There are many advantages foran academic instutition to in

vestigate the use of a large scale

computer control systems such

as those used in industry. These

advantages apply both in the educational and research aspect of

the academic institution. Finally,

there is one other advantage

which is of importance. At

Waterloo, we do extensive work

with industry on development ofcontrol for specific processappli

cations. ACS can be used as a toolin that development, thereb;'"

providing an easy transfer of

technology from academia toindustry. In fact the use of a full

scale 'computer control system todevelop any advance control

strategies will give that strategy

even more credibility in the

industrial domain. This in ad

dition to all of the advantages

illustrated above, will help pro

vide a more even distribution of

the process control technology

base between industry and academia.



Iron Warrior 12.

ub ews

I Student BranchThere will be an IEEE meeting

on January 18 at 11:30 in CPH

2387. Dr. S. G. Chamberlain, EEGradua te Officer, will speak on

the merits of continuing your

education past the undergrad-

ua te level. Free coffee and dough-

nuts will be served.

The IEEE computer f.acility is

open fmr use by members of the

IEEE. This facility consists of a

superbrain micro computer,. a

printer and various programs forthe superbrain. Anyone inter-

ested should contact Ed Spike

(ext. 3716).The second meeting for the

term will be held on February ilt

11:30. t will feature Prof. R. E.

Seviora speaking about the

broad ra nge of microprocessors

t ha t are a vaila ble on t he market.

What is Ferrune Eng?

Femme Eng is brought to you by your Engineering

Society . Wh o cares? If you are a fe maleengineering studen t , Y U should Femme Eng isbasical ly an organizat ional voice for \Vomen in

Engineering at Waterloo , Each term, i t

sponsors the femme Eng Wine and Cheese",\ h'ich gives the \Vomen involved in Engineering

on campus a chance to meet with each other andrliscuss various as pec t s of engineering, andl i fe i n a male domi.nated (?) environment.

There is also a speaker present, \Vho talksabout current topics related to engineeringand women. Femme Eng a l so organi zes wome n' steams fo r various act ivi t ies on campus,i nc lud ing sports . Are any of yo u i ntereste di n an ice hockey to ur name n t?

On th e mor e serious side , th is term Femme Engi s involved in preparing a brochur e ( \ i th th eaid of the Dean ' s office) to be circulated tohi ghsc hoo l s, in order t o encourage prospectivefemales to consider a career in engineering.Al so, we arc sending a representative to theSecond Convention of Women Engineers of Canada

this spring .

The bottom l i n ~ i s : \Ve cannot do i t withoutYOU Come out and get involved in Femme Eng .W thout your support , i t means no t hing .

Eng Soc Athletics

Welcome back to UW . Best

wishe s for a good acade mic term

This column is just to let youknow what is happening in EngSoc reg \ rding athletics . The

author is no w , under the ca refulsupervision of Kerry Hedd en,aspiring to be the new Athletic

Director.

The events for January include:

a ski trip to Blue Mountain on the

21st and a broomball tournament

on the 22nd. We are trying to

arrange bus transportation for

the ski trip, however that mode of

transportation appears to bevery expensive . A car pool to

transport everyone is one alter-

native but we would need a great

deal of support from everyone

rhose dr iving would obviously

be given money for gas

These two special events have

yet to be finalized. but things look

promising. Along with these

t: vents are regular leagues being

run by Eng Soc . These being afloor hockey (ring) and an ice

Your Femme EngDirector

hock ey lea gue. Hopefull y, th erewill be a t leas t one engin eeringfac ult y tea m a nd possi bl y two if

th e turnou t is suffi cient. .We are al so in volve d in pr e

pa r at i ons for a not her s ki tr ip inEng ineerin g Wee kend I to C hik

ope e and th e Sn ow Bowl(weather permitting ). A cha l·

lenge goes out to a ll classe s fr o mthe 2A Chem En g class , wh oplaced second in th ebut are looking to win on Januar y

30th .February appears to be fairl y

quiet except for our volleyballtournament on the 27th . It 'll bemidterm time , but we are hopin gthat won't stop too many pe ople

from participating and making

the tournament successful. Fu rthermore, if p'lans for the broom ball tournament aren't finali zedin time for the 22nd ofJanuary the

tentative date will be February12th. .

That is about all for now. Hope

to see everyone out supporting us

this term Thanks.Michael Hagley

Assistant Athletic Director2AChemEng

Is It Worth

Debatingby Dave MacCuigan

Many of today's educational

au thori ties regard a good debater

with more respect than the top

men in any subject or disciplineof subjects . This high regard forthe debater is well deserved.

owhere else upon the univer-

sity campus is the intellectual

activity as pure nor the import-

ant skill of analysis more util-

ized. Clear. logical thinking and

expressive speech are developed

by the debater. The debater must

be "on his tOf'S , react to a sit-

uation as it develops and use

persuasive speech to "sell" his

-pOSition. The debaters of today

are ready to become the leaders oftomorrow.

f you are an experienced

speaker you will enjoy the chance

to exercise your sk ill s a nd todeve lop them fu r th er. If you are a

beginner you will be nefit asmuch or even more, for th e levelof de bat ing is not too high a ndmost peop le are participa ti ngjust to ga in the con fi dence

re q u ir ed to speak effec t ively infro nt of a g roup of peo pl e. If yo uare at a ll int eres ted come out a ndpa r tic ipilte. The daba tes a re ofimpro m ptu na tu re a nd heldd uring lunch h ours; so th ere is noneed to wo rry th a t d eba tin g w illtake up too much of yo ur time.T he be s t reaso n fo r comi ng out

a nd deba ting , however, is tha tdeuat in g is fun.

•

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Documents

Iron Warrior: Volume 4, Issue 1