Interview Khu Sin

7/28/2019 Interview Khu Sin

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An Interview

withKhushwantSinghM A L A S H R I L A L and V I J A Y K. S H A R M A

Î ^ H U S H W A N T S I N G H (b. 1915) is a well -known fiction writer,

S i k h histori an, and journal ist. Hi s reputation as a wri ter rests on

the Parti tion novel, Train to Pakistan (first publi shed i n 1956 as

Mano Majra, named after the novel's fictional border town near

the North West frontier), a harrowing narrative of events result

i ng in ruthless mass destructi on marking the d iv i s i on of I ndia in

the autumn of 1947. I n the words of Warren French, "Singh's

terse fable suggests a prof ound disi l lusionment with the power of

law, reason, and intellect in the face of elemental human pas

sions. . . . Singh is a bri l l iant, sardonic observer of a world

undergoi ng convulsive changes; and his novels provide a uni que

insight into one of the major po l i t i ca l catastrophies of this cen

tury." His novel I Shall Not Hear the Nightingale (1959) is about

Br i t i sh abetted terrori sm in pre-I ndependence days; accordi ng

to French, it "takes a much di mmer view of human capacity for

compassion and self-sacrifice than Train to Pakistan" ( 8 2 0 ) . In

many of his short stories, Singh exposes so-called religious and

superstitious beliefs, expressing disi l lusionment about man's

rationality.

Trained as a lawyer i n England, Singh worked as Press A t tac hé

i n I ndian Foreign Services i n Ottawa and L ondon, taught at

O x f o r d , Princeton, and various other universi ties. He has been a

journalist of l ong standing and repute, wri ting col umns for a

number of national and international publications. He is also a

well-known translator.

What fol lows are extracts from a wide-ranging interview, whi ch

took place at Singh's home on a pleasant afternoon, 5 October

1997-

ARIEL: A Review of International English Literature, 29:1, J a n u a r y 1998



138 M A L A S H R I L A LA N D V I J A Y K. S H A R M A

L A L : HOW did you start writing?

Interestingly, I started my career as a writer i n Canada i n

1947-48, when I was posted i n Ottawa, i n the I ndi an H i g h

Commission. M y first story was "Portrait of a Lady," which was

published i n Canadian Forum Then I wrote for Saturday Post

(Toronto) and then publ i shed some stories i n the A meri can

Magazi ne Harper's.

L A L : In a recentarticle, you said that during Partition you "lostfaith not

only in humanity but also . . . in reigion " and thatyou have been "an

agnostic ever since" [5]. How is this reflected in your literary works?

I conti nued to write stories that are anti-belief and that mock

superstition. I have a story cal led "A gnostic," and my much

anthologized story "The Mark of V i s h nu " is rather well-known

since it appears i n a number of school textbooks.

S H A R M A : Yes, you are known for that kind of stance, but whenever the

subject of Operation Blue Star1 is discussed, you seemto express strong

sentiments against it and tend to favour the Sikh reigion.

That's not quite true. Operati onBlue Star has now been acknowl

edged as a bl under. I had made several statements about the

Punjab situation to M r s. Indira Gandhi and also i n Parl iament. I

told M r s. Gandhi: ' Y ou don't know my community. It is l i k e a nest

of hornets." She said that there was no i ntention to send i n the

army but then she di d. I am not a believer, but I have a sense of

belonging and am concerned about what happens to my com

munity. I do not have religious bel ief i n G od and scriptures. O n

this account, I have often been called a hypocri te, a person who

observes symbols of Sikhism. But, despite these outward symbols,

I have never compromised my position. I have wri tten on S i k h

history and translated the scriptures. T he more I read about

religion, the more I was convinced that I should be a non-

believer.

S H A R M A : YOU have expressed your sentiments about India's Partition

and how the trauma affected various communities. Your novel "Train to

Pakistan " brings out the tragedy so effectively.



I N T E R V I E W W I T H K H U S H W A N T S I N G H 139

L A L : And now your novel has beenturned into a film What changes did

thisentail in termsof dramatizing the characters and replacing English

with a robust Punjabi ?

I thi nk it is a well -made film. T he censors have obj ected to the

use of Punjabi abuses, but how is it possible to convey that

atmosphere wi thout ma behan Kigali [abusive language involving

mother and sister]. When the two Punj abi jats talk to one an

other, i t comes naturally. T he case is sti l l pendi ng i n the court

and the j udgment is awaited. I passed the script [of the film] but

had nothi ng to do with the casting of actors.

S H A R M A : The action in thenovel evolvesgradually and isvery convinc

ing, but in the film it seemsrather rapid and sudden.

Y es, I was surprised by the beginning of the f i lm . I n the novel, I

had made this character J ugaa, the son of a dacoit. I n the film, his

father is shown bei ng hanged. B ut then that is a va l i d change,

otherwise how could they show it on the screen? However, I have

two regrets about the film: more of the pastoral l i f e was not

shown and the cl imax di d not get the attenti on it deserves.

S H A R M A : Wereyou aware of any other creative work about Partition

when you wrote "Train to Pakistan " ?

I believe mine was the first Parti ti on novel. L ater there were

several. Saadat Hasan Manto's story "T oba Tek Singh" got a lot of

attention, but it is utterly contrived. T he story is about people i n a

lunatic asylum being divided between Indi a and Pakistan on the

basis of their religion. It tells the story of Parti ti on i n a tragic-

comic way.

S H A R M A : Someother wel-known onesare, for example, "Tamas" . . .

I saw the film Tamas but have not read the book. Y es there have

been qui te a few on this theme of Partition, much i n the vernacu

lar, which di d not make the impact it deserved. For example,

K . A . A bbas's "Sardarj i" was not adequately translated. Initially it

was misunderstood because it captured the stereotype—J oon

[lice] i n their long hair, their madness at noon—but it was a

powerful story.



140 M A L A S H R I L A L A N D V I J A Y K. S H A R M A

L A L : What isyour assessment of the literature about the Partition written

by later writers, say, Mukul Kesavan, Bapsi Sidhwa, and others?

M u k u l Kesavan, I l i k e his wri ting. Bapsi Sidhwa is good, but she

makes a bl oomer i n Ice-Candy-Man. T he novel is based i n L ahore,

o f course. When I met Bapsi, I told her that she had menti oned

only seven S i k h gurus. Y ou see, she had misunderstood Satguru

["Sadguru": guru who leads one to truth] as seven gurus. So I told

her: Tum hamre teenguru khagai [ Y o u swal lowed our three gurus].

S H A R M A : D O you think she made this mstake becauseshe lives in North

America and is not famliar with . . . ?

N o . A Paki stani had no business not to know the basics and since

she lives i n A meri ca she shoul d have done her homework better.

Ice-Candy-Man w i l l probably be made into a film. Y es. It has

wonderful visual qualities.

S H A R M A : One wonders how Partition has beenviewed in Pakistan. In

India, for example, the idealists neverfavoured it but theyhad togive in.

In Pakistan, people werelooking forward to the birth of an entirey newnation.

O n the subject of Partition, the Pakistani writer is fu l l of compas

sion. Y es, it was a new nation but there was a sense of tragedy

about how it took place. Most of the writing is in Urdu. There is

r i c h Urdu poetry about Parti tion. A nd then there is Punjabi

writing as i n the work of Ustad Daman from L ahore.

S H A R M A : This brings us to Rushdies recentremarks on Indian literature

[that prose writing—both fiction and non-fiction—by Indian writers

working "in English " is proving to be a stronger and moreimportant body

of work than most of what has beenproduced in the 16 "official lan

guages" of India, the so-called "vernacular languages" (x)] and the

controversy generated thereafter.

Rushdie was a little rash i n maki ng the statement, but I tend to

agree with hi m generally. Vocabulary in al l I ndian languages iscomparatively limited; English is a richer language and has a

larger market. It is true that we have very good writers i n A mitav

Ghosh, V i k r a m Seth, Githa Hari haran, and this young woman



I N T E R V I E W W I T H K H U S H W A N T S I N G H 141

A rundhati Roy. It is surpri sing that all this good writing i n Eng -

l i sh has been duri ng the last two decades. A t one ti me, we used to

read the L ati n A meri can wri ters and now al l the good writing iscoming from this part of the world.

S H A R M A : DO you think what Rushdie said about literatures in Indian

languages has something to do with the lack of availability of good

translations ?

N o . I have seen a lot of translations. My own analysis is that it is

the poverty of vocabulary. Tagore's novels are disappointi ng; his

poetry reads better. I have read W i l l i a m Radice's translations. I

am not fami l iar with Mahashweta Dev i , but Satyajit Ray's stories

are more readable than Gurudev's, though it is bl asphemy to say

so. Regional writing is limited . . .

L A L : Who have been the literary influences in your life and for what

reasons ?

T he incentive came from bad I ndianwriting i n English. I di d ex

tensive reading of the ol der wri ters—A ldous Huxley and Eve lyn

Waugh. I enjoyed the wit, irony, and mal ice. T hen there were

prose wri ters l i k e [Malcolm] Muggeri dge.

S H A R M A : But Huxley is not known much for fiction.

I l i k e his essays, but he wrote some good fiction as we l l . I l i k e the

handl i ng of language by English writers rather than the A m e r i -

cans such as P h i l i p Roth.

S H A R M A : A fine story of yours, "Bottom Pincher, " published longtime back in "London Magazine, " reads like a piece of writing by an

Englishman.

I am hal f a Br i t ! I tell writers that you cannot wri teEnglish unless

you've made love to an English woman.

L A L : What would you tell female writers 1

T he same!

S H A R M A : DO you think a writer has any role to play in situations such as

after the demolition ofBabri Masjid? Can a writer help in bringing about

cultural understanding among communities?



142 M A L A S H R I L A L A N D V IJ A Y K. S H A R M A

I am concerned about the resurgence of fundamental i sm —

the phenomena of Bhindrawale, Hindu fundamentali sm, Sangh

Parivar, M us l i m fundamental i sm. This is a theme i n my [news

paper] columns and in my other wri tings. I write two syndicated

columns a week i n [The Hindustan Times (New Delhi) and The

Tribune (Chandi garh)] and they are translated and carried i n

different papers and magazines. . . . Someti mes when I am in a

small town, a pol i cewomanwould ask me about something that I

had wri tten.

S H A R M A : It means thatyour views are able to reach themasses.Now that

we are ceebrating the50th anniversary of India's independence, do you

think there is enough to ceebrate? Is it right the way we are doing it?

A s I have said i n my columns, there is not much to celebrate. A l l

this fanfare and razzmatazz is notjusti f ied. We have a long way to

go and a lot of hard work to do.

N O T E

1

Operation Blue Star is the military action ordered by Mrs. Indira Gandhi in early

J une 1 9 8 4 to combat the Punjab terroristshiding in the sacred shrine, the Golden

Temple, in Amritsar. Khushwant Singh as well-known intellectual and nominated

member of the Rajya Sabha (Upper House of the Indian Parliament) was very

critical of the action. He returned the decoration Padma Bhusan in protest.

W O R K S C I T E D

French, Warren. "Khushwant Singh." Contemporary Novelists. Ed. Lesley Henderson.

Chicago: St. James Press, 1 9 9 1 : 8 1 8 - 2 0 .

Rushdie, Salman, and Elizabeth West, eds. The Vintage Book of Indian W riting:

1947-1997. L ondon: Vintage, 1997.

Singh, Khushwant. "I Thought the Nation Was Coming to an End." Sunday Magazine

(The H industan Tim es). 28 Sept. 1 9 9 7 : 5.

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Interview Khu Sin