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The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Improvised Weapons > Paintball Incendinary Rounds

View Full Version : Paintball Incendinary Rounds

June 16th, 2001, 04:04 PMSKS

Would it be possible to convert a normal paintball into a mini grenade round. You could fill it with napalm and some chemicalthat will ingnite it on contact with something hard? Any ideas? Would be very nice if it worked.

June 16th, 2001, 04:45 PMMr Cool

White phosphorous and petrol. Will ignite in air, once a portion of the WP has been exposed by the petrol evapourating off.There are no safe compounds that will ignite when hit on a hard surface, and most things that are shock sensitive willdetonate, not ignite.Is fusing the device out of the question? If you didn't need a rapid rate of fire, and you put in a bit of effort, it would be easyto have the fuse ignite just as it left the barrel. This could then set fire to some sort of delay, which would ignite the main fillerwhen the ball burst.If you don't mind a fused device I'll post a few ideas I have brewing...

June 16th, 2001, 08:56 PMAgent Blak

That would lauch little bit size "Molotov Cocktails"... interesting. you could lauch a better payload than a fire bomb with a paintball gun. use a pistol wit the 12g CO2 and load pepper in it(the Pork Patrol uses it)...you get the idea..

------------------A wise man once said:"...There Will Be NoStand Off At High Noon... Shoot'em In The BackAnd, Shoot'em In The Dark"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!

June 16th, 2001, 08:59 PMAgent Blak

You could also just use jelled gas or something similiar; then have a one of 15 paint balls sand with a lighter flint. that woulddo it I am sure

------------------A wise man once said:"...There Will Be NoStand Off At High Noon... Shoot'em In The BackAnd, Shoot'em In The Dark"


June 17th, 2001, 04:32 AMBoB-

It depends, can you find a highly flammable liquid that has no solvent propertys? Ordinary water will eat through the casing onany paintball.

June 17th, 2001, 05:17 AMPYRO500

paintball paint is oil based, how about motor oil?

June 17th, 2001, 03:21 PMendotherm

don't put any impact sensitive rounds into a paintball gun, the force of gas that could come out of a paintball gun feels like apunch, i turned the velocity all the way up on my custom 98, took the barel off and shot the gas at my hand, and i thoughthere was like a ball in the detent or something, but it was just air, it would definitely set off sensitive things.

June 17th, 2001, 06:05 PMSKS

How about making a custom .68 caliber ball out of a mold. Using wax or something along those lines. It would be more stablethan gelatin.

Also a fuse would be hard and it might possibly go out with the rush of CO2 coming out of the gun.

June 17th, 2001, 06:37 PMBaDSeeD

I had to read this.... just because.But this sure is a fucked up idea.

I doubt that a paintball sized round, whether filled with explosive, or a burning fuel would be that effective. There just isntenough capacity. I say scale it up to spud gun size, with ammo the size of tennis balls, or at least racket balls... and then youmight be on to something.

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------------------BaDSeeDKnowledge is the true power, ignorance will bring your demise.

June 18th, 2001, 12:51 AMPYRO500

what about a paintball stuffed with AP or silver nitrate for an explosive or ignitor bullet use silver nitrate

June 19th, 2001, 12:42 PMMinami_Sasake

Perhaps if you filled your paintballs with gasoline or napalm and then fixed a gas torch to the end of your barrel? The flamefrom the torch gets very hot and should ignite the paintballs as they leave the barrel. You would need a very well ported barrelso that the carbon dioxide won't blow out the flame.

------------------Day must fade to night,Night must give in to sunrise,I watch, silently.

~A Haiku, Minami Sasake

June 19th, 2001, 12:48 PMendotherm

the paintball would leave the barrel in excess of 300 fps, the paintball would only be exposed to the blowtorch for minisculefractions of a second, and would not be exposed to the flame for long enought to light it,and it would go out soon after it leftthe barrel if it did, and if you dont mind having pieces of stainless steel barrel embedded in your face i wouldnt put AP in apaintball

[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited June 19, 2001).]

June 20th, 2001, 12:35 AMAgent Blak

AP in a paint Ball Eh?I think I will give that one a go...*wink*

July 3rd, 2001, 03:32 PMCtrl_C

nothing says it has to be spherical. you can even use things that dont seal with the barrel in some paintball guns. in some,the bolt moves forward with enough force that it will propel anything a fair distance. for example, i once put a chapstick tube inmine and tilted the gun back to it rested on the bolt. even though it didnt make a seal with the barrel, the bolt pushed it outwell enough.

July 4th, 2001, 01:50 AMEzikiel

guys ...I have tested a mixture that is shock sensitive but burns off in a flash. A mixture of KNO3 and red Phosphrous which ismoistened by alcohol or acetone and wrapped in Al foil. throw this mix on a wall and it gives the effect of an electric spark. Andhow about take a valve out of a cheap cigarette lighter and glve it into (epoxy) a rubber dart of a bottle. Fill the bottle with alittle conc. H2SO4 and dart the bottle and epoxy it (seal it). Now fill the bottle up with butane gas and stick a paper towel whichhad be saturated with a solution of KCLO3 and Sugar. After impact bottle breaks ..... pressure sprays the acid on the papertowel and ignites the gas .... Volla .. Big fire ball....

------------------"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"

July 15th, 2001, 11:58 PMEzikiel

Suggestions, comments, questions people.I need feedback to learn.

------------------"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"

August 29th, 2001, 12:26 PMmadog

i think filling a paintball with ap, that phosphorus mix or any other sensitive high explosive would be a good way to get chunksof a paintball gun in your face.

------------------"True freedom is not without anarchy"

[This message has been edited by madog (edited August 29, 2001).]

August 31st, 2001, 11:11 AMmadog

actualy, what may be good and fairly safe would be to fill it up with strike anywhere match heads. and maybe some flash. butthat phosforus stuff sounds realy sensitive.

------------------"True freedom is not without anarchy"


September 2nd, 2001, 01:27 AMMonkeyman666

Originally posted by Agent Blak:AP in a paint Ball Eh?I think I will give that one a go...*wink*

I would not give it a go, do you know what squiges are for?? When a regular paint ball breaks open in your barrel upon firing.Just think of what the results would be like if that happened with an ap filled one & the shock detonated it in your barrel? I cannot stop you from doing it, but can give you come advice if you are. Oil you barrel well.

------------------Monkeyman

September 2nd, 2001, 03:05 AMbangandow

the guy was joking (hence the wink) but the barrel being oiled wouldnt have any effect on it. the bolt hitting the ball or theforce of the co2 would be what would detonate the AP. if its gotten as far as the barrel, youre good to go. but thats nothappening, trust me.

January 12th, 2005, 06:26 PMBegste

Would it be possible to convert a normal paintball into a mini grenade round. You could fill it with napalm and some chemicalthat will ingnite it on contact with something hard? Any ideas? Would be very nice if it worked.

They already have exploding paintballs for movie work. Same compound found in flash bang grenades.

January 13th, 2005, 04:45 PMMardec

KMnO4 + glycerine that mixes on impact? This would be a small incendairy round.

January 14th, 2005, 09:49 PMkbk

Wouldnt the concusion of the round ejecting from the chamber of the paintball gun cause the incendiary to go off inside thegun? There is quite a bit of power used to make a painball fly with enough velocity to make it break when it hits someone.Therefore it must be pushed by alot of force and that could cause the ball to explode in the gun.

January 17th, 2005, 08:05 PMJacks Complete

I think the point of this has been missed a little? You want a hopper with 250 napalm paintballs in it. You fire about 25 intothe window of the target building, then send one that is lit (or preferably that will light things) in last.

All it needs is something really simple, like the "napalm" you can make with polystyrene and petrol. Form it into little balls in amould, and load it up. See if it works (it should, and it can't hurt you!) and how hard it is to light. The bolt from the paintballgun shouldn't actually hit the ball very hard, since this causes ibroken balls in the barrel. If it does, get a venturi bolt kit foryour paintball gun, which uses gas to push the ball more gently over longer, than smacking it with a bolt.

Next, make a small unit that will light the napalm goo. It takes quite easily with a match, so a few special balls should do thejob. You need something that is stable, yet will light things without turning your barrel into a COB. I would suggest somethingelectronics (or at least electrically) based.

I can see that a small unit would be possible. Perhaps a Lithium battery, shorted out, would generate enough heat. Anotheridea would be a small spark coil.

Lithium or sodium metal, carefully wrapped, would also heat up dramatically with water (provided, perhaps, by another regularpaintball) Another idea would be to use something like KMnO3, which might oxidise hard enough to start a fire.

I certainly wouldn't want to use anything that has both dangerous parts in one ball, though!

A better idea than the paintball gun might be a simple(!) pneumatic cannon firing a milk bottle full of oil and petrol, with a ragor fuse behind it soaked/coated with something slow burning. This would let you light the fuse and fire it without too much riskand not obvious fire flying through the air, and deliver about twice as much in one go as a full hopper of paintballs.

An incendiary cannon for taking out target buildings from a range would be quite useful for some activities, I am sure. Thepaintball gun would be a bit lame, really.

January 17th, 2005, 09:52 PMSilentnite

From all of the paintball guns I have seen, there is a tube that you can fill with paintballs. What about filling it in order so itssomething like: Napalm, Napalm, Napalm, Napalm, KMNO4, Glycerin. That way each one fires seperately, and then you haveno problems with it going off in your barrel. Unless theres a way to slow down the paintball gun, so maybe you could loftsomething with it instead of firing it straigt. So you could use something a little more sensitive.

January 18th, 2005, 12:55 AMBert

The paintball rounds used for "bullet hit" effects in movie SFX work are filled with a mixture of fine gravel and fine Zirconiumsponge. The metal ignites from the force of the impact, producing the visual effect and quite likely enough heat to ignitegasoline or other incendiary liquids/vapors. FYI, the empty capsules are sold by SFX suppliers but are deliberately made TOOLARGE to fit your normal kiddy fun time paintball guns- SFX crews have special barrels made (bored out) to fit the ammo.They don't want you to easily load up and use a malignant paintball round...


January 18th, 2005, 09:01 AMJacks Complete

Silentnite, wouldn't the KMnO4 oxidise/light the petrol mix? Would the glycerin be needed?

Bert, you can buy oversized barrels without trouble. Most top players have several, and adjust the gun bore to the paint for theday. I doubt the paintballs would be too big to fit in the action of a regular paintball gun, so the barrel could, at a push, simplybe removed. Accuracy would be poor, but they will still fly - not sure how far, though.

I know the oil-based marking paintguns are a smaller size, .6 rather than .69 from memory.

January 18th, 2005, 08:59 PMSilentnite

I wasnt sure exactly what you could use to light it. I only read further up in the thread that a KMNO4/Glycerin mix would be aincendiary round, albeit volatile. So I thought of just splitting them up. But if just KMNO4 would light it. Hey. Thatd be great.

January 19th, 2005, 02:25 AMxyz

Jack's Complete, I'm not sure about napalm, but in my experience pure petrol won't ignite in contact with KMnO4.

January 19th, 2005, 03:30 PMAnthony

I don't see the problem of KMnO4 / glycerine igniting in the barrel. Say it did mix on launch, the paintball is only in the barrelfor a few milliseconds. The mixture doesn't ignite that fast. Hell, on a cold day, there's a good chance it won't ignite at all.

Paintballs go mushy on contact with even small amounts of water. What do you expect will happen if you fill one with anaggresive solvent?

The molotov cocktail fired from a spudgun is probably the best idea thus far. I'd go for a toilet-paper launcher design though.If the bottle broke under acceleration in the barrel, can you imagine the fireball at the muzzle? :)

January 23rd, 2005, 12:12 AMSoulShadow

What about a way to put the flint in the round from lets say a zippo lighter? dont those things spark when the hit a hardsurface?

January 23rd, 2005, 08:55 PMnbk2000

Only at bullet speeds. An airpowered gun isn't going to go fast enough, I think.

January 23rd, 2005, 10:04 PMThird_Rail

I haven't gotten rare-earth metal flints to spark, even firing out of a .223 hp round.

FWIW, anyway...

February 1st, 2005, 08:46 PMJacks Complete

Anthony,

Hell YES!Flame launchers... They look great at bonfire parties... :-D

February 5th, 2005, 06:29 PMossassin

Just a note on the idea of filling paintballs with an incendiary agent that would ignore upon contact with air:You ALWAYS have some paintballs pop in the barrel. It's a very common problem, so what happens when you have burningnapalm all over the inside of your gun?

February 6th, 2005, 12:52 AMcharger

If you did have such a ball breakage, wouldnt the CO2 put out the fire? I thought it would just smother it like a fireextinguisher does. If the fire was not extingwished, wouldn't the material be forced out of the muzzle before anything elsecould catch fire? There would be a fireball at the muzzle, scary, but but possibly harmless.

If you are worried about the other paintballs igniting prematurely, you could load them singly or use the 10 round sticks thatare available to reduce the damage should they ignite.

February 6th, 2005, 01:10 AMSilentnite

As sticky as napalm is, especially in the form that you might use in a paintball round, probably would not be sufficientlyexpelled should it burst in the barrel.

Maybe if you used a little more liquid formulae, but then you'd have the problem with it dissolving the case.

February 6th, 2005, 01:50 AMossassin

Yes, silentnite's right. Not only would the napalm not be expelled from the barrel (if paint isn't napalm won't be either), butthe CO2 would NOT put it out. Napalm is incredibly hard to put out, and a few little bursts of CO2 won't do much.

If you want to use incendiary rounds in a paintball gun, the filler can't ignite upon contact with air, and it can't be friction orshock sensitive. How, then, could the idea work?


EDIT: The air-ignition idea might work if the shells of the paintballs were harder and much less likely to break. You'd have toopen up the CO2 valve, then, so they'd shoot alot harder. Sure, it would lose alot of CO2, but it should have a longer rangeand be safer to use.

February 6th, 2005, 04:21 PMAnthony

A .68" paintball would have an internal capacity of less than 2ml. It wouldn't exactly be scary in the ball burst in the barrel andignited at the muzzle. I'm sure everyone that has owned an air canon has filled the barrel with a flammable liquid and fired itover a naked flame.

Unless this "napalm" contains an oxidising agent, not only would be easily extinguised by a blast of CO2, I doubt it wouldeven burn in the first place, within the confines of a paintball gun barrel.


Well, they were talking about adding WP to it, which would ignite on contact with air. Would little puffs of CO2 really put thatout?

February 6th, 2005, 08:19 PMJacks Complete

WP wouldn't go out from CO2, but it would probably kill you off!

Crappy napalm like I make from polystryene will go out in small amounts if you blow on it. The blast of CO2 would put it out,and so would the air resistance as it flew.

The idea of firing burning paintballs is a bit silly, since they are far more likely to be spotted, they are going to be moredangerous, and they are going to be time-limited (how do you light them then fire them?)

If you light them on the way out, that would be feasible, but you will still see the path.

February 6th, 2005, 09:12 PMSilentnite

I thought the whole Idea was to shoot the napalm and then an incendiary paintball. One that would ignite on contact with thenapalm. Not shoot flaming balls.. Although, it would be quite a site.

Although, if you did that... there shouldnt be a problem with it getting caught in the barrel. Unless you didnt notice and shotthe lighting ball.

All this talk about fire and shooting makes me want to go build one.

February 7th, 2005, 01:25 AMfestergrump

I doubt that a paintball sized round, whether filled with explosive, or a burning fuel would be that effective. There just isntenough capacity. I say scale it up to spud gun size, with ammo the size of tennis balls, or at least racket balls... and then youmight be on to something.

I would have to agree. Though using a paintball to deliver the flammable mixture is a novel idea, it'd require so manyprojectiles to be effective. If anyone could show me a very simple way to mass produce incendiary rounds for a paintball of anynormal caliber, I'll be sold on the idea. Until then I think it's simply not practical.

Why not opt for a double barrel device, one barrel resembling a spudgun which would deliver your fuel payload (ie: Molotovcocktail sized projectile, even a beer bottle or similar), and the other a smaller bored barrel delivering either a flint and steelpayload (a tighly wrapped "bag" of zippo flint and some course steel [very small broken off chunks of some cast iron,perhaps] patched down a barrel) or a breakable dual celled payload of a good acid and a chlorate? It kind of reminds me ofSWIM's idea of the ultimate elephant gun: An over/under combination rifle with a .22lr over a .505. "Shoot 'em in the ass withthe .22 and when they turn around to see what the sting is give 'em hell with the .505...". This would be just the reverse, sortof...

February 7th, 2005, 03:57 AMossassin

The question about CO2 putting out WP was to make a point. :)

Silentnite, why would you shoot rounds with napalm and then an incendiary ignition round? Would the purpose be to start afire? I was thinking that this was going to be used against people.

festergrump, I'd have to disagree about the size. I think that a small incendiary round from a paintball gun could be veryeffective for anti-personnel applications, as long as you hit something sensitive (like skin) or flammable.

February 7th, 2005, 05:09 AMfestergrump

Hmmm... I was actually thinking of both crowd control applications as well as the starting afire of combustable inanimateobjects.

I fail to see how a paintball sized round could be of significance. It's impact on the head of an enemy would surely havesomewhat of a desired effect by stinging and hopefully blinding, but other than that, how would it be an effective weapon otherthan this??? Certainly, it isn't going to bring him to his knees in pain or start him afire so much as to stop him fromadvancing. Even if he noticed himself smoldering, couldn't he pat out the fire or smother it somehow? Rapid fire successivehits would be neccesary, which brings me to my point about mass production of such rounds. I've been splatted by paintballguns and I doubt the splotch of a similar incendiary round would call for immediate attention. (Note to self: a rifle or pistolwould be so much better for such situations).

Truthfully speaking, my last post was more inclined towards the launching of a Molotov cocktail device far beyond the range ofwhat a man can lob such an object. This, IMO would be very nice to be able to do as it would have its merits towards bunkers


AND closely spaced enemy peoples. A direct hit to a person would maybe not spread the napalm, but it'd put him down. Anindirect hit (hitting the ground in his general vacinity would [hopefully] douse him with enough napalm to toast him and hisnearby friends or at least make them stop for alot more time to try to put themselves out). Bunkers and buildings, of courseneed no explanation.


I'm sorry, I didn't actually sit down to think on the uses or applicability of a paintball napalm launcher. I was just reading thefirst couple posts where he asks the feasibility of such a project.

It would take too many balls to do any kind of reliable damage to a person or persons. A building would be kind of dumb,unless it was maybe a gas station, and then you don't need the napalm, just the flints.

The reliability, effort to produce, and over all effect would be much more improved, by going with the molotov cocktaillauncher. Or a regular flame thrower.

With all that in order, how about a physics question. The wider the area that a force is applied lowers the pressure on anygiven point right? So would that mean that the best projectile to launch out of a spud gun would be a wide-based cone? I saycone for the aerodynamics.

Feel free to correct any gross over-simplifications.


I really don't see your point about trying to minimize the pressure. Do you mean so that a glass motolov coctail wouldn'tbreak? It would be hard to launch a cone out of a cylindrical tube. What about a cylinder with a rounded front that would beshaped like a 40mm grenade? The barrel of the launcher would be able to stablize it, resulting in reasonable accuracy. Therounded front could be its soft spot, which would shatter on impact. The only problem would be that if the sides and rear weretoo hard, the incendiary agent wouldn't be dispersed effectively. What about a bursting charge? (I'm really making itcomplicated now.)


That's exactly what I was thinking of. I was trying to figure out the optimal kind of projectile to use. Would a canning jar workyou thinK? They are rather brittle, but if you use a slower powder, I think it should work.


Aren't canning (mason) jars generally kinda square? It seems like it should be more spherical so you could shoot it out of abarrel of some sort. If you could find a spherical canning jar without the little designs on the side, go for it. What about analuminum soft drink can or something? It should smash easily or burst easily with a small explosive charge. There wouldn't beany danger of having it shatter or crack in the barrel, either. Your thoughts?

EDIT: I guess it should be something with a soft front, maybe even a slightly weighted front. A trigger could be placed there.


Do you mean the kind with the lever to hold it closed? I've got some that are totally useless as far as a seal goes. However,they are cylindrical. I've seen both types.

To stop the jar shattering on fireing, you could coat the bottom with some plastic or silicone to cushion the shock a little. Thatshould be enough when using a slow burn propellant like butane.

Alu or steel drinks cans are a bit nasty. They often seem fine, but when you try to fire them with a load, the walls buckle.YMMV.

In both cases, you are going to be stuck with a flat-nosed cylinder that will tumble. I would try to make some sort of nosecone. You might need fins. Again, YMMV.

This is going to be a tool for knocking a petrol bomb through a large window or even just hitting a barn at a few hundredyards, so nose cones and fins might be over-egging the pudding. Loading the ignition fluid into the nose and the body withthe payload would solve some problems.

February 11th, 2005, 10:28 PMfestergrump

Mason jars come in different shapes and sizes. I have seen the squared off type that Ossassin is referring to (which areactually more expensive) as well as ones simply cylindrical. The ones used for canning and preserving of fresh goodies usuallyhave a two piece lid. One part is the ring which threads on to the top of the jar and the other is a disposable flat disk whichhas some sort of plastic to melt and create a good seal when properly heated in water.

With Ossassin's mention of the squared off type I'm now thinking what a great idea to utilize this. If one were to have a tubewhich had an ID of the diameter of the squared jar's outermost radius and were to impliment some slight rifling of the barrel...Would this not put a nice twist on the projectile and keep it from tumbling? No cone or fins neccesary.

The rifling of the bore need not be done by taking away from a thick barrel, either, but moreso adding to it. Four islandsmolded out of a kneadable epoxy should suffice. Only a slight twist would be needed. It's not like we are talking about theforces involved with firearms, else they, too, would be made from PVC piping...

I really don't know if this is a good idea or not, I'm sort of thinking aloud, here. Maybe the idea sucks. I'll not take it too hardif it does.

JC, I'm not sure about the jars you describe. If we're on the same page they are more used for holding candy and such, no?Also, I have to admit that you got me. What's YMMV?



YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

You might be right about them being used for candy... I never really got in to home economics and all that - I can cook asteak. Home canning isn't the big thing it seems to be states-side over here, probably since the local store is at most 30miles away, even at the most remote. Hell, the ones I've seen in Ikea looked real, but maybe they weren't canning jars at all!They do seem mostly decorative.

Are you meaning a square bore that is twisted? There was a system that used an oval bore, way back when, with BP. Since PVCcan be softened and deformed with heat, it should be fairly simple to heat a barrel and squash it to the right shape. Do it witha propane burner and thick gloves, and perhaps a form to put inside, then sleeve the whole square tube inside another PVCpipe, just in case you weakened it too much.

Streamers would work for stabilising the ammo, too.

Edit: http://www.xinventions.com/main/spud/pac6.htm has something that might be absolutely spot-on for this job! ;)

February 19th, 2005, 07:30 AMTribal

I was thinking, that if I had a paintball gun, I'd just fill the bullets with red phosphorous inside, I don't know how safe it wouldbe or if i'm right, but that's an idea. please let me know if i'm wrong...

February 22nd, 2005, 11:21 PMThird_Rail

If you had that much redP, you'd know what to do with it.

February 25th, 2005, 02:22 PMTribal

Yes, I suppose I wouldn't use it in paintball ammo, that's too great stuff, i can still remember - when i was small - i almostblew off my fingers. But I really don't have any idea's where to put it, that using as detonating something by pressure.

February 26th, 2005, 02:01 AMaXiate

i reckon getting some napalm inside a paintball shell, and scraping off some matchheads and glueing the dust to the outsideof the shell, at the end of the paintball gun have a matchbox igniter.

so hopefully on the way out it lights the match powder and then the napalm..suggestions?

i supose you could also just coat the outside with a flash powder and shoot it, and impact should ignite then light the napalm/other insides?

March 3rd, 2005, 05:19 PMBander

Many of the binary compounds mentioned thusfar are relatively exotic. I imagine a 1:1 ratio of balls filled with eithernitromethane or NaOH(or KOH) would yield a nice burst of flame when shot on top of each other.

March 4th, 2005, 10:41 PMJacks Complete

Problem with that is the hitting the previous shot thing.

I think a mix of 10:1 of flammable to lighter would be good, since you want a lot of fuel and only need to light it once. Onceburning, it will light any others, too.

Actually, thinking about it, you want two hoppers with a feed select. Spray a load of fuel first, then switch to the lighter hopper,and let rip again till it lights.

Make a professional enough version, and you would have a military weapon, there... Just add 000,000's for the timer lightervariation, and bingo! The ultimate "cause a distraction" device!

September 23rd, 2005, 09:44 PMMr. Pseudo

An excellent method for greatly reducing the impact sensitivity of AP is to mix it with a dilute aqueous solution of Na(CO3)2(baking soda) and allow all water to evaporate.AP was mixed with a .1M soln. of sodium bicarbonate and dried in open air for 36 hours. The prepared AP was then slightlydampened with anhydrous denatured ethanol and packed very tightly (and carefully) into specially prepared cardboard tubingwhich was unravelled to OD of .66" , sealed at the front with a slight taper, and sprayed with laquer. The front was weightedwith a small dollop of lead. The lead was melted and poured onto a steel plate to cool. Once cool the lead disks were freedand cut to fit the tube.

After drying for 24 hours, a piece of wax paper was placed behind the AP and the remainin space filled with coarse (1-2mm)dry sand, and the end sealed with another piece of wax paper and secured with epoxy. Construction of a single round lookabout 2 minutes (minus drying time and with lots of practice)

Fig. 1: an approximation of the design of the AP rounds|****|

Tests were performed using an unmodified tippman 98 using a highly advanced remote manual firing system (string tied totrigger). rounds were manually loaded directly into the barrel The Table below details confirmed detonations vs. faileddetonations upon striking a stable wooden target.**Firing rates shown were set for a standard paintball.****Due to the increased weight, the speed of the AP round was significantly lessened. **RATE_______DETONATED_______DUD150_____________1____________9200_____________2____________8250_____________6____________4300_____________10___________0350_____________9____________1*400____________10____________0

* Fluke? Possibly a misconstructed round.

Speeds higher than 400 fps were not risked, since the danger only increased and the trend was pretty obvious.

The front was weighed with lead to bring the balance closer to the front of the projectile in order to minimize tumbling.

Power was fairly impressive. took the bark off pine trees with a sharp *crack* and tore a hole in 1" particleboard.Power could probably be increased by mixing the AP with PETN instead of sodium bicarbonate. Extremely thorough mixingwould have to be done, not simply mixing together the two powders.

I'd also like to try this with a solid AP/NC cylinder. It would eliminate the dangerous and time-consuming packing step, but idont know what would happen to the sensitivity. I have heard that AP/Epoxy mixtures are EXTREMELY sensitive, but i dontrecall any specific mentions.What do any of you more experienced guys thing of using a solid AP/NC load?

In addition, the rounds tended to slide out of the barrel if it was pointed down and shaken. When not shaken, a small orangerubber finger in the breech held the rounds in place. I dont know if all PB markers have the same type of little rubber widgeton them as the Tippmans.

September 24th, 2005, 02:06 PMmeselfs

Very fine research, Mr. Pseudo.

I'm not sure how wise it is to use a solid slug. You could, I guess, make an undersize one and dip it in wax. Maybe you couldmake a really simple paper cylinder, fill part with AP and the rest with NC/whatever, and keep dipping it in wax until it'll fit thegun. For fast loading, consider mold for the wax. The wax would have to be thick, to strengthen it, and it would all buteliminate the chance of detonation in the barrel.

October 21st, 2005, 02:58 AMMr. Pseudo

wax would certainly greatly increase friction with the barrel and even likely deform, causing a complete blockage of the barrel.NOt to mention that wax buildup would necessitate a thorough cleaning after every round.I saw on the FN Herstal website that they have some very nifty rounds designed for non-lethal appications. These could beeasily modified for for deadlier purposes, but seem to only be sold to those with LE creds. Pigs get all the fun stuff. :(I'd sell my soul for a P90

NOTE: the FN Herstal website must be viewed in IE or the Java menus will not work, making navigation impossible.[http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm]

I was wondering if the rounds unusual size would be fitted in the 'Freak' modular barrel system. I would assume so.

**EDIT** coating the outside of a paintball with anything sensitive is a monumentally stupid idea. The PB's invariably tumblein the barrel, thus any friction sensitive material on the shell will undergo an abrupt increase in entropy. Not only that, but anysort of unevenness or grit will cause the round to break in the barrel.The near-impossibiity of making decent home-made ball rounds make them ludicrously impractical. not only that, but they areunable to carry any decent quantity of substance. Unless your rounds contain a powerful neurotoxin they will not do anythingthat would not be far better served by a $15 "Saturday Night Special".

I just had another neat idea!

The FN Herstal rounds have two isolated chambers. A front one which contains granulated bismuth for greater KE, and a rearone which contains a variety of liquids.If the front compartment were filled with a cyanide salt and the rear compartment with concentrated HCL, the rounds wouldrelease a burst of cyanide gas on impact. The concentration inhaled would possibly cause immediate cardiac arrest due toshock in the victim. Even it if did not cause death, the deployment of numerous of these projectiles would serve as an effectivearea-denial devce. It would also greatly complicate any rescue efforts during part of a larger operation.

Not only that, but if an enemy was out of sight or in a reinforced position (IE. hiding behind bullet-resistant cruiser doors. ;) ),several of these rounds in a close proximity would force movement.

Should I start a new thread for this?

October 24th, 2005, 08:40 PMasilentbob

From what i have read in the past, IIRC, paint balls are usually made up of glycerin, propylene glycol, and/or vegtable oil anddyes. If you called up differnt companys and found out which ones fill up with glycerin, you would only need to make someKMnO4 shells. Either KMnO4 powder or a solution, other than water, in whatever container you end up utilizing.

A friend and i were thinking of using his crappy paintball gun for experiments like this a while ago.

October 29th, 2005, 12:54 PMh0lx

I've been thinking of using Mn2O7 for destructive purposes and this must be the perfect use for it. You could use it in split


class spheres in size of a painball round like 1/4 of the volume is Mn2O7 and other 3/4 is some volatile organic fuel(Acetone,Xylene, Gasoline). Or use rounds full of Mn2O7, which could be shot at anything organic to ignite it. The shooter may selectthe ammunition depending on target. The paintballgun has to be fully pneumatic, with nothing hard hitting the round. If I finda way to fill glass spheres with it and seal them, I will try this one out definately.

December 31st, 2007, 06:49 PMGrapes Of Wraith

Airsoft grenade launchers are modeled after real grenade launchers. You can fill a shell with just gas (propane or higherpressure gas) then use it to launch things like small fruit or other stuff, the diameter is 40mm. You can place firecrackers inthe fruit for a more realistic grenade explosion.

this is a hand held one:http://store.matrixbb.com/servlet/-strse-28608/CAW--fdsh--Echo-1/Detailor theese:http://store.matrixbb.com/servlet/-strse-Airsoft-Guns-cln-Grenade-Launchers/Categories

December 31st, 2007, 09:33 PMGammaray1981

Why glass spheres, h0lx? Wouldn't a cylinder do? I.e: Take flint glass tubing, heatseal one end, fill to (insert depth) withMn2O7, add thin layer of wax to separate layers, fill further with whatever solvent, seal in any fashion you see fit.

So long as your tubing was of the right OD for the barrel of your marker, this would be effective, and far less hassle than tryingto create a divided sphere. It would also work for cyanide salts and HCl, napalm and steel/flint mixture, or whatever else youhad handy.

Careful with the wall thickness, though - flint glass is irritatingly brittle under instantaneous stress, as that in a paintballmarker in use.

January 1st, 2008, 02:04 AMTinton

Mn2O7 decomposes into manganese dioxide, oxygen gas, and a ozone. You couldn't seal the container, as the gasesproduced would detach the wax from your glass tubing, and the Mn2O7(if it hasn't already decomposed) would ignite thesolvent.

I actually tried something similar to this, I took a centrifuge tube, and a normal test tube; added some Manganese heptoxideto the centrifuge tube, and acetone in the larger test tube. I stoppered both, inserted the centrifuge tube in the larger testtube, and chucked it.It produced a miniscule flame, and did not ignite the solvent further. It would not have ignited anything.

One method that works much better, is to put the Manganese heptoxide in the larger tube, and the solvent in the smaller.Such that more solvent can be used, as well as the solvent has a greater chance of igniting the acetone(or whatever).

January 1st, 2008, 08:26 AMGammaray1981

It needn't be heat sealed - and anyway, even without decomposition, the solvent would catch fire in an open flame. I wasthinking along the lines of a wax plug, or even a small bung. A bung, in fact, would allow the removal of one component ifnecessary, rendering the round inert and so less harmful, for storage, perhaps. As I said, this needn't be applied only tomanganese heptoxide.

/----------------/||XXXXXX|YYYYYY|| }Glass tube\----------------\|End WaxC1 C2 Bung

C1, C2 = components 1, 2.

January 1st, 2008, 06:53 PMTomato

For those who mentioned lighting a round and shooting it, the flame would very likely be put out when shot. Back in the day, Ifired an "M2000" out of the barrel, it just happened to be the perfect size. It's not the effect we are looking for, but perhaps itwould be useful to make molds. By the way, the m2000 only flew 10 feet or so.

On a side note, I don't believe anyone has mentioned PepperBall's paintball rounds. There are several videos that can beeasily found on Youtube. They aren't incendiary but they sure work wonders. Perhaps some of their rounds http://www.pepperball.com/Securities/products.aspx are already modified in the ways in which we wish to modify ours. There's onefilled with water... It's definitely worth researching.

January 4th, 2008, 01:01 PMTonfa45

As a quick special affect some stunt people fill them with sand and match heads to replicate bullet strikes on hard surfaces,but I agree with "endotherm" impact sensitive rounds traveling between 300 - 400 fps have more several factors to overcome.(from the acceleration to the impact) Low velocity impact sensitive round... I have fired just about everything through apaintball marker that is commercially made and some custom stuff. Very difficult medium with limited payload. Propellantgases can very from propane, nitrogen, CO2 and compressed air so I don't feel that would be an issue.

January 17th, 2008, 06:45 PMWinston Bailey

As for a HE composition mix, wouldn't AP putty work if molded to the same calibre as the paintballs(.67)?? It would have asignificantly reduced instability to shock. I'm also fairly certain a 400 fps impact on a stationary hard target would be sufficientto detonate. If not, make it more sensitive :D.

Arts and Crafts stores sell an extremely large selection of various sized styrofoam spheres. These could be semi-hollowed andfilled with Trimeric AP.If one was still worried about the impact of the ball itself being forced out, (as stated earlier) use a


venturi bolt. It has 4-6 ported holes to allow evenly distributed airflow which will reduce all the co2 from hitting oneconcentrated spot. Thus, eliminating some of the impact pressure(this also helps with the tumbling effect down the barrel). Idont think this will be much of an issue if using the styrofoam.

Most often, the balls arent broken due to being hit by the bolt as they come out, it has more to due with an untimed feedingsystem. The bolt actually catches the ball as it falls down the feeding port and pinches the top creating a crack/hole thatcompromises the shells structural integrity, rendering it useless.

You can eliminate this by buying/obtaining a *fairly* cheap high quality PB gun that utilizes an "EYE." This is an integrallymounted laser which disables the bolt from firing if the ball isn't/hasn't fully chambered yet. Also the "FREAK" barrell systemcomes with multiple ID sized barrel inserts to allow different calibers to be shot from any particular gun.

Ceramic barrels would also help reduce friction. And if a ball did manage to break, there would be no ABSOLUTE need to cleanit because the next shot would clean out all shards of the shell left behind previously. This is because all the micropores arefilled by ceramics leaving a glass like finish on this inside. Although a squeegee is still a very necessary tool.

Another advantage of using a better PB gun is that they utilize compressed air rather than co2 for better velocital consistency.Co2 tends to get very cold when used in rapid fire(i.e. 3rd burst, 6rd burst, Semi-Auto with ramping, & full auto.) So lessvelocity is needed in order to get a more efficient group at further ranges. Coincidentally, a reduced impact on the ball. :)

January 18th, 2008, 11:19 AMCharles Owlen Picket

As for a HE composition mix, wouldn't AP putty work if molded to the same calibre as the paintballs(.67)??

Do not fuck with plasticizing TATP. It will bite you. :mad:ANYTHING that is primary-level sensitive should not be "shot out" of a paint ball gun, etc. :(

"It didn't happen when we did it before", "My friend did it & it was fine", "I know what I'm doing; I'll make it small".Only one person had the balls enough to come clean and talk about fucking up with energetic materials that Iremember.....and what he said sounded so fucking stupid that most people thought he was a troll. :rolleyes:

I actually have heard of things like this for years. To date, starting from about 8 or 9 years back on AEE I don't think I couldnot count the amount of thumbs, eyes, flaps of skin, fingers, eye-lids, & assorted bits people have lost from TATP. Peopledon't come back and post: "Hey, I fucked up real bad and now I'm typing with one hand and have no more depth perception"."My masturbatory habits are curtailed now and my girlfriend said that my stump turns her off."

Actually I'm not in the habit of posting crap like this. But actually I -=DO=- care if someone has an accident with energeticmaterials. Because it brings a lot of negative attention. The specific REASON that CPSC targeted the pyrotechnics industry is tokeep themselves active and funded as an agency. But the technique they used was the accidents that had occurred over thecourse of time.

When someone gets hurt, they are in shock. They generally don't have the wits to make up a story like "I was fucking with a20ga shell, trying to pry it out of the chamber of my piece with a pocket knife & it discharged". They either tell the truth or theevidence is too hard to conceal OR they get mad at themselves and BLAME the chemical! (If you don't get the point I'mmaking please re-read the post) - I am also not directing this at any one individual! I'm sick and tired of bullshit happeningthat can be avoided with a wee bit of common sense. Please think this stuff through....:o

January 18th, 2008, 03:00 PMWinston Bailey

Charles,Your probably right. It was merely a suggestion :o. A simple idea I thought might have been a little bit safer than just straightAP. I have never had *personal* expierience with plactisized AP so I dont exactly know how much safer, but from what Iunderstand it sounded a bit more plausible. Besides the plactisized AP idea was more like a rhetorical suggestion, hencebecause I had no expirience with it? But, I wasn't about to go asking if it would because I am a noob, and that's a no-no. Thatis why I put it in the form of a suggestion.:)

Thank you for caring, as I am sure none of us want any extra attention than we are already recieving momentarily. As for allthe other ideas I mentioned, most of them weren't my ideas, but rather an improved fasion of the ones I have been reading.i.e. The "eye"- So if you did do this (which i wouldn't waste my explosives doing, much less a $350 PB gun) your chance ofchopping a ball would be less probable.

The Venturi bolt and compressed air because they both exert less force than does a regular bolt and C02. In my opinion,using any explosive in a paintball weather high order, low order, binary=low order, what have you, is a BAD idea. Even if theproper steps are taken to *try* and make it safe :rolleyes:. But no matter what you say there will ALWAYS be one individualwho has to learn things the hard way.

I didn't mean to offend anyone :(, just trying to help that one individual be a little bit safer and take extra simple steps to*reduce his chances* of being injured. I figured it's better to help rather than just say "Don't do it" if they're going to do itanyways. The way I see it that's HOW mistakes happen,....mis-information or NO information at all.

I know this wasn't/isn't specifically directed at me, but I can't help but feel that way because I am new to this forum, haven'tposted all but two posts, and I have only been recently (like 2-months) been making explosives, even though I have LOVEDthem my whole life.

None the less I greatly appriciate your constructive critisism and care. Even if it's not about the people involved but rather thefield of energetic materials itself. I understand your POV. I only hope you try to understand mine.;)

CHEERS

January 18th, 2008, 03:11 PMmegalomania

The opening scene from the movie Arlington Road comes to mind, the bloodied child walking in shock down the middle of thestreet after his explosives accident.

Primary explosives readily detonate from friction and impact, both conditions which are present if you launched an explosivefrom anything. Acetone peroxide in particular is a very sensitive primary explosive.


I will not say it can't be done, or it should never be done, but for your own sake you need to be very familiar with the safetyaspects of an explosive before you start tinkering around. If there was an accident, and the plasticized AP did explode in thebarrel of the gun when fired, think about what would happen. Is the round powerful enough to destroy the gun? Will the gunbe next to you face? Will the barrel shatter? Is the gun built strong enough to channel the energies harmlessly down thebarrel? Are there safety features you can design into the device to minimize an accident?

Weapon designers don't just take a gun off the design table, hand it to a soldier, and point him to the nearest battlefield.They fire the thing remotely, try to simulate and induce failures, and make sure the thing works before letting a humananywhere near it.

January 18th, 2008, 09:48 PMgaussincarnate

In my experience, paintball gun barrels are not the most sturdy things ever invented. I used to paintball rather frequently,and I have seen people break barrels on accident before (long story involving a very stupid person with nothing to do). I wouldsuggest trying to fire it without a barrel the first few times. Yes, I know that it will do little more than roll out of the gun, but itwould give the blast somewhere to go, just in case.

On the bright side, most paintball guns are electronic, so remotely firing them should be considerably easier than remotefiring mechanical weapons.

Also, although this involves neither AP nor paintball guns, it may be useful. I have fired those little popper things discussed inanother thread (silver fulminate extraction?) from a blowgun before, and it did not detonate (until impact). Even though theyare two entirely different substances, it does show that it is reasonable to expect that sensitive materials could survivecomparable accelerations out of a paintball gun and thus make it out of the barrel. Still better to be safe than sorry, however.

January 19th, 2008, 01:34 AMKaydon

I wouldn't go as far to say most paintball markers are electronic, the majority are mechanical. Speedball has grown so much inpopularity that the manufacture of electronic markers, or electronically assisted mechanicals (e.g. e-grip, electronic loaders)has increased, but that's about it.

I believe the strongest paintball barrel made to be the DYE Boomstick many moons ago, the one that weighed around 3lbs.The one you could use as a weapon if you had to. It was like a billy club.

January 19th, 2008, 04:28 AMwolfy9005

How about a paintball/marble with a string connected to a small bottle with the sensitive stuff in it(or a mini-molotov?).

January 20th, 2008, 01:50 AMWinston Bailey

This would not be smart. A string attatched to a small bottle would definitely cause more than enough shock(from being rippedor pushed by the paintball/marble) to cause det. that is of course if using any primary HE. Not the MC but who wants a vial offlammable liquids broken inside your gun??? :rolleyes:

OFF TOPIC A BITA slingshot would definitely be a better idea. Plus there would be no need for the marble/pb.

CHEERS

January 22nd, 2008, 09:32 PMgaussincarnate

Come to think of it, if you really, really wanted to waste money, Armorech (I believe) sells barrels that you could probablyshoot a real bullet out of. They make a number of scale models of real weapons (essentially the same, just with everythingscaled up for the .68 bore), so the barrels are almost invincible. The guns themselves were actually machined steelthroughout, not stamped. Great way to get suckers to buy something wholly unnecessary just because it sounds cool.

I knew someone who had one of those, a model SR-25, if I remember right, and he always talked about how it wasindestructable (and the whole unit weighed about 15 lbs, unloaded). Stupid? Yes. Useful just this one time? Maybe.

January 23rd, 2008, 11:01 AMCharles Owlen Picket

Not many people are aware of the level of research that goes into steel production. The steel used in weapon's barrels is agreat example. People can do things with steel that were simply unimaginable several decades ago. The level of pressure thatchambers can manage is fantastic and it's not through rigidity alone that this is achieved. There is a ballooning effect that isactually controlled via micro crystalline enhancement in production dynamics.

It's not a good idea to experiment with pressure spikes unless you have a bit of a background in related engineering. Whatmay appear to "handle" a level of pressure can actually be forming fissures unseen by the eye at the casual level.

You can setup a remote firing mechanism and everything appears to be going well but actually rending before your eyes(undetermined by casual glance). The height of stupidity was the use of plumbing pipe in firearms by some crap-books. Bevery careful what you put your faith into.

February 1st, 2008, 12:26 PMiHME

if you really, really wanted to waste money, Armorech (I believe) sells barrels that you could probably shoot a real bullet outof.

Why buy a paint ball when you could just buy a proper barrel and don't even think that you could fire 12 gauge shot shells witha paint ball gun bolt or receiver.A kid died recently because he was too stupid to remotely test his invention, which was doomed from the start. He loaded a 12gauge shell in to his paint ball gun an pulled the trigger. He died later at the hospital.

But if you want to make a real weapon from a paint ball gun make it in .22lr or similar. Heres a example (The posters English


is simply horrible. ):

The newer thread with blurry pictures (http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=20033)

The original thread with sharper pictures (http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=3;t=16197)

Only if he would write better English and take better pictures...If the links don't work register to the forum, it is worth it, a forum full of people building firearms. Need I say more? :p



The Explosives and Weapons Forum > Military Science > Improvised Weapons > flamethrowers

View Full Version : flamethrowers

January 3rd, 2001, 12:41 AMALENGOSVIG1

Does anyone have any information regarding home made flamethrowers?

January 3rd, 2001, 01:01 AMAgent Blak

There is a Copy of Dragons Breath(Ragnar Benson) floating around here somewhere.

------------------A wise man once said:"It has To Start Some Where, It Has To Start Some Time;What Better Place Than Here, What Better Time Than Now!!"--RATM


January 3rd, 2001, 01:42 AMALENGOSVIG1

yeah, i was wondering where i could get that..any one know??

January 3rd, 2001, 06:06 PMNightStalker

I know how to make a flamethrower that will work good and be as safe as possible for such a homemade device...

There are 2 things needed:- a fire distinguisher (don't know how it is spelled)- dry ice

You open the distuinguisher remove all of its contents an clean it very well..to the tubing that normally sprays out the content you attach a piece of metal pipe, about 10 cm long. Be sure you get a firedistinguisher where the "trigger" is mounted near the nozzle not on top of the casing cause this has several disadvantagesnamely you can't use it without holding the (very heavy) thing in your hand and the tubing will not be sealed when you stopusing the device...then you remove the trigger/nozzle device and push some steel wool into the tubing.This will prevent flames going back into your fuel depot and blowing it up...to the primarily attached metal pipe you now attach an ignition device (pencil torch, bigger torch).your flamer is now ready for use...Filling and using:fill in your fuel to till the casing is toally filled. THIS IS IMPORTANT cause you don't wanna have any air in it that could formexplosive gases...now fill in the dry ice and close the device.you will loos some of the fuel that will be pushed out while filling in the DI and closing but this is not important...

Now to use it just light your ignition device and pull the trigger... I had about 15 metres of flame with the one i built.But i tried it only once, so something totally different could happen...

Be sure not to fill it before you wanna use it cause your fuel could attack the plastic parts like vents and so on and also openand clean it directly after you used it...

BE FUCKING CAREFULL IF THIS THING EXPLODES NEAR YOU YOU ARE DEFINETLY DEAD OR BURNED HEAVILY...I wouldn't ever tell someone to make such a device cause it is too unsafe although i mentioned many things that improvesavety to a point where it is not likely to blow up...but it is alway possible that such things happen....

------------------Death stalks silently....

January 3rd, 2001, 06:32 PMALENGOSVIG1

ok..so where do you put the dry ice?...in the fuel?

------------------http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/alspalace/

January 3rd, 2001, 09:03 PMCtrl_C

this one isnt hard at all...just get some kind of container that can be opened and resealed airtight (i was thinking possibly a 5pound co2 cylinder but i dont know if it is possible to put liquid in it) and fill it 3/4 with kerosene and then pressurize it with asmall co2 tank for a paintball gun. hook it up to a hose with a "t" in it and have one line go to an always on ignitor that goesin front of a second trigger/nozzle assembly that the 2nd line goes to.

the kerosene is always lit in the ignitor and when you squeeze the trigger, it shoots pressurized kero through a nozzle thatprojects it into a fine stream through the ignitor....effectivly lighting it.

the ignitor would have to be under lower pressure than the trigger assembly and some sort of flashback arrestor would beneeded...

Log in


********************************************

oh yah...i just remembered that at the old forum...somebody had taken a can of wd-40 and put one of those spray paint cantriggers on it and taped a pocket torch in front of the can. if i remember from the pictures right, it produced a nice size flame.however wd-40 reeks when it burns due to the oil.

[This message has been edited by Ctrl_C (edited January 03, 2001).]

January 3rd, 2001, 09:16 PMEdd

no, that wasn't the old forum, that was the film arachnaphobia...........seriously, a spray can? that's not a flame thrower!


its good enough for his purposes.....plus a hell of a lot easier

January 3rd, 2001, 09:31 PMALENGOSVIG1

what are some fuels that i could use?..im thinking mabe a very thin napalm but i think you would have to clean the gun afteror else it would dry and clog it up..mabe a 50:50 petrol, oil/kerosine?.i wounder it if would be possible to pressurize the tank with a flammible gas like butane..or would it be too riskt if the tankpressure got too low..mabe attach a pressure gauge? input please!

January 3rd, 2001, 10:21 PMBoB-

The $5 pocket dragon, I forget who posted it (short-term memory loss from newyears http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/cwm32.gif )It was Starter fluid (which is primarilly Ether) with a spray-paint trigger sprayer attached and a matchbook pull ignitor taped inthe line of spray.


yeah....the Pocket Dragon thats it.

ALENGOSVIG1: i would recommend straight kero because anything more volatile may flash back into the tank and just ruinyour whole day

January 4th, 2001, 09:02 AMNightStalker

you fill in the dry ice into the fuel cause it evaporates directly to co2 making a constant pressure....NEVER use flamable gases... it would explode as soon as the fuel isn't running constantly through the line...


January 4th, 2001, 10:35 AMnbk2000

I made the pocket dragon. It's not really a new idea but I did make some improvements.

http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/pocketdragon.GIF

http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/flame.GIF

The flame is about 8 feet long in this picture. More than enough to incinerate someone in a room or hallway.

------------------"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

Go here (http://members.nbci.com/angelo_444/dload.html) to download the NBK2000 website PDF.

January 4th, 2001, 11:34 AMZero

If you ask me, I'd attach an Aim'n'Flame or better yet a soldering torch to the end of that. The torches are nice becausethey're windproof, but the Aim'n'Flame has a nice long nose so your fingers don't get anywhere near the flame.

------------------~Zero the InestimableThe A Files (http://www.delanet.com/~drendall/files/A.zip){Link is a direct download.}

January 4th, 2001, 02:47 PMBaDSeeD

Ahh flame throwers. Here is something i can add some interesting info about. Bear with me however, because i dont have ascanner, or digital camera, so you'll have to pay attention to know what the hell i'm talking about.

Most parts for my flame thrower are machined from stainless steel, however a well stocked plumbing store will probably giveyou enough parts to make one. Ok where to start.

First what i used for my propellant was a propane tank for a brazing torch. You know those disposable blue canisters that costabout 2 or 3 dollars at home depot. I had originally intended for this to lay down horizontally, as the gun i was making wasmeant to be held in one hand, with the guts overlapping my forearm. Similar to a galico subgun. Needless to say, the gasdidnt flow properly with the tank laying at that angle (not for long anyhow). I switched to a smaller propane tank used for


coleman lanterns (same brand tank), its slightly wider, but much shorter, and this i mounted threads down (upside down).From the tank, I made an expansion chamber that has corogations on it to make the liquid propane expand quicker(corrugations dissipate more heat, or cold as it were). This is simply to increase the pressure that i am getting out of the smalltanks. From there, the main line breaks off into a "Y" shape. I have a small feed that goes to the front of the gun for aconstant flame to light my fuel as it exits the barrel. This is set up with a simple ball valve so i can adjust, and shut off theflame. Its a lousy flame, similar to a zippo with an orange flame, and a bit of carbon (not enough oxygen i know). It blows outoccasionally.. but works ok for now. Back to the main line, after another valve to shut off the propane, i have my fuel cylender.This is also machined from stainless steel, but a large piece of pipe if threaded would work fine as well. The main line fromthe propane comes into the cap on my fuel tank, with another purge valve on the side. I know lots of valves.. but they areneccesary, i'll explain. When the tank is filled (i use gasoline) you can not possibly get all the air out of the tank. So i dont tryto. I simply fill the tank about 80% full, cap it, (point the gun barrel down) then open the valve to my propane tank topressurize the fuel cylender, then open the purge valve on the side of the tank to bleed off some of the gas. I leave thepurge valve open for a few seconds so that it will hopefully replace all of the air in the tank with propane. I'm still here, andnot in a burn ward, or grave, so you know it works. At the other end of my fuel cell is where the barrel starts. Its fairly short,only four inches, and threaded into the bottom of the fuel tank. The nozzel on the end of the barrel is just a zerk fitting, i justgrinded the tip of it, until it freed the ball and spring, and pulled those out. Right behind the nozzel is my trigger valve. Its asimple lever type ball valve, that i have rigged up to a makeshift trigger. It has a spring return on it to close when i havereleased the trigger. The flame beyond the nozzel is set about two inches in front of the nozzel, and about an inch low. Itflexible tubing.. and easy to adjust.

Now for the problems i have found. First off. The whole thing as i said is mounted in line to fit onto your forearm. The only wayi have been able to control it is to strap it to my arm. Now as you can see.. if something goes wrong... you cant exactly drop itin a hurry. Secondly.. when full it weighs about 25 pounds. Not exactly a light weight. Third the trigger pull is about 10 pounds(enough to make the federal government happy). Fourth even with the expansion chamber to up the pressure on the gun.. itonly gives me about 35 - 40 feet of flame. I have tried different nozzels, and thickening the gasoline.. but 35 - 40 is the besti can seem to get. Fifth and last.... with the 35 - 40 feet, which isnt all that bad, i only have about 4 seconds of fuel. Sorryshould have put this before, the fuel cell holds about 1 liter.

Maybe i'll build a back pack model next.I'll also try and draw this up, or get some pictures scanned to add.

------------------BaDSeeDKnowledge is the true power, ignorrance will bring your demise.

January 4th, 2001, 03:06 PMAgent Blak

I saw a guy's web site that had plans like that for sale. That sounds like good design but you could improve it buy adding asimple torch head and maybe a Cricket igniter(Static Spark).




I think I should just add that people seem to be affraid of flamthrowers exploding on them. Unless their is air in the fuel linethen theor is no danger of a flash back. Even if the flame does flash back into the tank, the tank won't explode unless their isperfect fuel/air ratio in there. Even if this mixture exists, the pressure generated by the combustion wouldn't be enough toexplode the tank - think spudgun.

Another old favourite is the "petrol in a super-soaker" shame the gun dissolves after a while. In which case you could usesoemthing like an alcohol.

January 4th, 2001, 07:42 PMNightStalker

I had one of those superspoaker things exploding in a remote-fired test dry...fuel was kerosene/gas mix..Now you understand why i have a lot of respect for those things???


January 4th, 2001, 08:01 PMSofaKing

I did the starter fluid thing, really fun I think it's that exact same brand as the picture. I also did the super soaker thingworked well but fused the gun together.

------------------"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug


How do you mean "explode"? I mean is if it leaks/ruptures and catches fire then it hasn't exploded. But if it goes "Ka-fucking-boooooooooom!" they'd I'd say it actually exploded!

I agree that certianly these things demand respect, but I think that being sprayed with fuel from a leak is the biggest danger.


January 4th, 2001, 09:19 PMvehemt

Naptha would work in a super soaker, but it would make the flexible tubing inside brittle.

January 5th, 2001, 01:26 AMALENGOSVIG1

nbk: can u post the plans for that lil frame thrower please?

------------------

January 5th, 2001, 03:02 AMvehemt

ALENGOSVIG1: it is just an ether starting fluid can with a spray paint handle attached. A match book pull ignitor has beenadded also.

January 5th, 2001, 05:42 AMBoB-

Theoretically, if there is absolutly any amount of liquid fuel in your chamber, then the F/O ratio would be way under theignition point,*BUT!* the chamber may become heated causing the gas's inside to expand beyond the chambers pressure rating...in otherwords, boom.

The people that make WD-40 got wind of a manufacturing flaw allowed people to create massive fireballs with there product,they since changed the propellant and the valve design,the people that make aerosol products are liable for EVERYTHING there customers do with there product, I'm sure most name-brand manufactuers are very careful in there design's.


My one actually exploded...it made ka-Fucking-BOOM the tank was shattered and burnig fuel was spit around...I still don't know how this happened but it did...Probably it was cause the fuel slowly dissolves the tank and so weakens it...And as it is a super soaker you pump air in so you get a compressed explosive mixture of gases that can explode..


January 6th, 2001, 01:31 AMBoB-

Sounds like you got a simple pressure bottle explosion.

January 6th, 2001, 02:51 AMAgent Blak

The CO2 is A Great Idea Because if the flame does Follow it back in to the Tank the CO2 will Smuther it be displacing the O2.Any of you Saw the Pump Sprayer for Paint and Pesticide(or a pump fire extingisher(Sp?)). You would olny have to modify thenozzel so it will shot in more of a stream(Easily done.)




yeah, that was the basic idea of using co2...i thought of those pesticide sprayers too cause i have one at home but i threw this idea away after the super soakerexploding...(it was a pressure bottle explosion)


January 6th, 2001, 02:38 PMAgent Blak

I thought that going from High Preasure to Low Preasure should keep it fairly Cool. Like when you have your BBQ going forawhile and then you touch the tank and it is cold; Condinsation(or frost sometimes) has formed on the outside of the tank.




March 14th, 2001, 05:14 PMBandit

Sorry about brining up an old topic but, i was reading badseed's reply and was wonding if anyone could explain the expansionchamber he talks off. Is it just a pipe for the gas to expand or am i missing somthing?

Bandit

March 14th, 2001, 06:42 PMc0deblue

Bandit: The expansion chamber to which BaDSeed refers simply promotes a higher propane vapor pressure (and flow rate)than would otherwise be possible. To illustrate the problem: At 90 degrees Fahrenheit the vapor pressure of propane is 149.3psig, whereas at -20 degrees the vapor pressure is only 10.7 psig. High rates of evaporation (as in this application) exert apowerful self cooling effect on the LP reducing its vapor pressure and delivery rate (this is why a CO2 canister gets so coldwhen rapidly discharged, for example). A separate finned chamber allows an increased surface area for the liquid propane andpromotes absorption of heat from the ambient air, thereby reducing the self cooling effect and maintaining a higher pressureand delivery rate. In industrial high flow rate applications (such as propane fueled engines), electrically heated evaporationchambers are commonly used.

March 14th, 2001, 08:05 PMBoB-

NBK: what I've always liked about your idea is that you could secure a string to the pull-cover, then tie the other end aroundyour shoulder, one handed flamethrower.

March 17th, 2001, 05:57 PMphyrelord

does anyone have Ragnar Bensons book about flamethrowers? Oh has anyone else seen fix-a-flat burn it fucking rocks, ithrew it in a fire and when it exploded it looked like napalm everywhere it was pretty cool. Also silly string makes a niceflamethrower and it sticks on contact. I was watching a clip of a couple sitting down at their wedding when someone sprayedsilly string across the candles and POOF, flames everywhere, scared the hell out of the couple

March 22nd, 2001, 02:08 AMSofaKing

Hehe that reminds me of ash (Evil dead 2) and the one handed chainsaw Hail to the king baby ! The can o' flame works prettywell but has a short range, the best fuels being starter fluid, and carb cleaner. A ineresting common fuel is bakers joy (pamwith flour) fairly good for a cooking item !

------------------"ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER" -- Jack Booted Thug

March 22nd, 2001, 04:03 PMblackadder

hey, phyrelord, I saw that video as well.

Some dick sprayed it everywhere, it ignited, but only burnt for half a second, and then went out. No harm was done!

March 24th, 2001, 05:33 AMDaRkDwArF

I would definatly suggest a refillable water fire extinguisher (one with the repressurizing vavle thats compatable with car tyreinflators) just remove the tubing on it and replace with copper piping, fill it 3/4 with your mix, pressurize it and get a penblowtorch from your hardware store to attach to the front for an ignitor...

April 15th, 2001, 03:43 PMBitter

Check this out.

http://www.zianet.com/paulsplans/page4.htm

April 15th, 2001, 07:06 PMrichl261

lol the man on that page looks like chewbacca with a shaved mouth http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

April 15th, 2001, 07:08 PMrichl261

more to the point, sweet flamethrower though http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

April 15th, 2001, 07:20 PMblackadder

Hmmm, I wonder how he made that flamethrower? Anyone got any ideas? I'm thinking he pressurised a tank, and when hefired it he releases the pressure valve on both the propane and the tank,

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Improvised Weapons page 2.pdf