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Collins,, Terence; Price, LyndaTestimony from Learning Disabled College Writers onthe Efficacy of Word Processing in their WritingProcess. Working Paper.Minnesota Univ., Minneapolis. General Coll.Department of Education, Washington, DC.Jan 8632p.; Publication of the Learning Disabled CollegeWriters Project.Learning Disabled College Writers Project, Universityof Minnesota, General College, 106 Nicholson Hall,216 Pillsbury Drive, S.E., Minneapolis, MN 55455($1.75, prepaid, checka only).Reports - Descriptive (141)

1001/PCO2 Plus Postage.*Computer Assisted Instruction; *Computer Software;Higher Education; *Learning Disabilities;Microcomputers; Research Projects; *Word Processing;*Writing Instruction; *Writing Research; WritingSkills

IDENTIFIERS Learning Disabled CollcTe Writers Project;*Testimonials

ABSTRACTAs part of a three-year federally funded resnarch

program intended to shed light on the writing processes of learningdisabled college-aged writers (with special emphasis on the use oftechnology in creating workable mainstreamed curricula), this paperrecords in an interview format the responses of students to theprogram, including word processing. The first section of the paperdiscusses the goals of the project, the equipment used (an Apple IIcomputer and the word-processing product, an early version of "MagicWindow)," and a sketch of each of the four students. The secondsection presents the unsummarized transcripts of learning disabledsubjects discussing the capacities and limitations of the technologyin accommodating their disabilities. (EL)

*************************************************x*********************Reproductions supplied by EDRS are the best that can be made

from the original document.***********************************************************************

Y

Testimony from Learning Disabled College

Writers on the Efficacy of Word

Processing in their Writing Processr-4

cat A Working Paper of the Learning Distitled College Writers Project of theUniversity of Minnesota General College, January, 1986

Terence Collins, Director

Lynda Price, Project Specialtst

LD College Writers ProjectUniversity of Minnesota General College

106 Nicholson Hell216 Pillsbury Dr. SE

Minneapolis, Minnesota 55455

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATIONNATIONAL INSTITUTE OF EDUCATION

EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES INFORMATION

)ecCENTER (ERIC)(The document has been reproduced asawed from the person or organization

originating itLI Minor changes have been made to improve

reproduction quality

Points of view or opinions stated in this document do not necessarily represent official NIE

position or policy

'PERMISSION TO REPRODUCE THISM ATERIAL HAS BEEN GRANTED BY

Terence Collins

TO THE EDUCATIONAL RESOURCESINFORMATION CENTER (ERIC)"

Research supported in pert by a grant from the U. S Department ofEducation

Copyright: Terence Collins end Lynda Price

2

Icatimony_fro.r_Ltlanino_Dialltled Calltgt_Yriters ou_thc

Etli=21, of WQrd_I-Prsimaing_in_lbeit_Writing Process

A Working Paper of the Learning Disabled College Writers Project ofthe University of Minnesrta- Gener&i College, January, 1986

Terence Collins and L> Price

The Learning Disabled College Writers Project is a three year

federally funded research program in the General College of the

University of Minnesota. The goal of the project is to shed light

on the writing processes of learning disabled college-aged writers,

with special emphasis on the use of technology in creating workable

mainstreamed curricula.

1.-ature on the topic is nearly entirely testimonial. What

can be said with some certainty is that professionals from a broad

range of institutions and backgrounds have reported that

commercially available word-processing software used on

microcomputers has a positive impact on LD writers. 'T is positive

outcome occurs in both performance on writing tasks and in

attitudes toward writing. Research studies which provide empirical

validation for this convergence of professional experience are as

yet, lacking. (See Nancy Engen-Wedin and Terence Collins,

Composition Word Progasslra.,und_tgEning Disabltd_Coll2gt

Writers' An a Working Paper of the Learning

Disabled College Writers Project, January, 1986.

Reports in the literature which record these testimonials are

largely summary. This is understandable, since such things as

interview transcripts are beyond the copaci'., of the journals,

given their length restrictions and proiuction costs. In our

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discussions with learning disabled writers who are introduced to

word-processing, however, we have found rich insights worth

reporting fully. The transcripts carry the credibility of

uninterpreted insight, not filtered through the professional's eye.

In their own voices, the subjects speak to the capacities and

limitations of the technology in accommodating their disability.

All of the interviews were completed after the subjects had

been trained on microcomputer word-processing software. The

software and hardware employed were a bit primitive: en Apple II+

computer (a serviceable, but hardly state-nf-the-art machine) and

an early edition of m4giQ Window (a rather limited capacity

word-processing product since, superceded by an updated version).

All had had opportunity to use the technology in -real-world-

applications in courses after training. All interviews were

conducted by Lynda Price, a Learning Disabilities Specialist with

whom they were familiar. The specific diagnoses of the subjects'

disabilities varied, but all shared language processing deficits.

A brief sketch of each subject follows:

Pat is a 25 year -odd male veteran returning to college whose

disability was diagnosed during his first year at the University.

He has severe problems with spelling and no sense of phonics. His

performance in college work suffered predictably.

DaYna is a 26 year-old female who was interviewed in her senior

year at the University. Word order and word relationships in

speech and in writing were both problem areas. Her performance was

slowed by her disability: she took six years to complete the first

three years of college, but has since completed the final year and

has graduated with a 3.0 grade point average.

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HarY is a 20 year-old female in her second year of college who has

a number of health problems that exacerbate the learning

disability. She has speech problems, limited language exposure,

low reading comprehension, spelling problems, and an inability to

write connected sentences. Her academic performance is affected by

her learning disability, and is marked by a low course completi(m

rate.

Bonnig is a 35 year-old female student enrolled in the University'.:

school of Architecture. She has difficulty with reading

comprehension ond symbol decoding, but compensates with strong

spatial and motor skills. Her academic success is shown by her

acceptance in the University ol Minnesota School of Architecture.

gary is a multi-handicapped 28 year-old male who has taken three

years to complete his first year of college work. His primary

handicapping condition is cerebral palsy. He has limited

dexterity, mild dysavthria of speech and motoric difficulties that

make use of the keyLoard difficult. He has cognitive processing

def'.cits that result in difficulties with sequencing and performs

below age level in reading and writing

A transcript of the interview with each follows. We

deliberately do not summarize the interviews. We feel that the

subjects' own testimonies speak for themselves.

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Interview with Pat

Q: Could you take a minute and tell se a little bit about what your previous

history as a writer was? You and I started working in November, so it would be

before November of this year.

A: Well, the only other time I was doing a lot of writing was when I was in

high school. At that time I was on the speech team for creative expression, and

I could write good stories to tell. But when it came the time to write stories

to hand them in or to write reports, they'd always write 'good content, badspelling, bad structure', and give me a 'D' or a 'C' at the most. Then I

started Fall Quarter last year at the 'U', and one of the classes I took was

'Literature for Children' with Terry Collins. At that time when I was handingin the weekly essays, he started wondering, and he pulled me over and started

asking me about learning disabilities and computers. Re's the one that started

me on the track.

Q: So how did you feel about your writing, before November of this year?

A: I actually enjoyed writing, but I never wanted anybody to see it because I

knew they wouldn't like it. But I enjoyed the idea c: being able to ideas down

on paper.

Q: So you felt that you were able to express yourself more easily verbally?

Like when you and I are talking, than if you would have to write the conversation

down and turn it in to be graded.

A: Far easier, verbally.

Q: Was that frustrating for you? That it was bird with the spelling and punc-

tuation and all that?

A: It used to really get me upset because all the teachers would always be

telling me 'You're not trying hard enough, we know you can do better', and I was

doing the best I could. They just couldn't see it. They just thought I was

lazy or something. And I v Js mad at them, mad at myself; because I would try

again and I just wouldn't be able to do it right. I just couldn't see what I

was doing wrong.

Q: S then last November you decided you wanted to start working on the com-

puter, and you picked the Macintosh, right? Why did you pick the Macintosh?You're the only person I've worked with that had your heart set on working nn

the Mac.

A: Actually it started cff with Terry. Re took me over to Carol Miller's

office, and she had one. She showed me how to use it. I'd seen other computers

before; I just never could of figured them out. But with the Macintosh, they're

so nice and easy. All I had to do was move the little mouse and point and

click, and it did everything. If I forgot to something it would come back and

remind me. I liked it, I didn't have to know anything about computers to use

it.

Q: What was the problem with the of computers? Why couldn't you understand

them'

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A: Because you had to put in, type in the different commands and stuff like

that to make it do things. At least once I had seen in the stores, that's the

only time before, you had to know a little computer language and stuff to be

able to use it properly. And with the Macintosh you don't have to because you

just have all you windows. You just pull down a window and pick what you want

to do.

Q: What about the pictures; dc the pictures make it easier for you to

understand?

A: The icons?

Q: Yeah. Oh, that's the fancy name.

A: Rey, I'm into technical wording. No, well I like the icons. Just to find

out wnat where it's at makes it easier that having to read down a list. I sup-

pose. I don't know exactly how an Apple sets up thei: filing syiztem. The icons

are nice, like you said the pictures; you're able to picture, you know what it

is.

Q: And the way the screen blows up, or the screen shrinks, that kind of thing;

that's real different from a typical microcomputer where everything is done in

words. It's all just strings of words or string.; of vocabularies.

A: See, I think that would be boring after awhile. With the Macintosh; I set

it up the way I want. The things there are easy to reach, all you have to do is

hit the open - double click and it's open. Instead of typing in open or wha-

tever you have to do with other computers.

Q: So, just for our information, how did you teach yourself how to use it? You

met with me for about three hours at the most, and we played with it just a

little bit, and then you bought your own compute!. And then what happened?

A: I just went home, and first I looked through the Macintosh manual itself. I

just opened up the MacWrite and went through the pages, and played with it the

way they suggested. Pretty soon I got a feeling how things worked. I just

started working on it. Each time I worked with it the more things I found out I

could do with it.

Q: So it's like trial and error.

A: Uh-huh.

Q: Was the manual hard for you to understand?

A: No.

Q: The vocabulary wasn't confusing, or the way it was highlighted; was any of

that confusing for you?

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A: Not really confusing. It took a little while for me to remember abcJt the

windows, and the files, and system disks, stuff like that. But after awhile,

after I got used to those terms, then I didn't find it that confusing at all.

You just have to really know the few terms that they use, and if you know them

good then you can understand how to use them.

Q: And that's what you figured out yourself, obviously. You figures out what

those terms meant, like the icons.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okays how long all together would you say it took you to teach yourself how

to uce - MacWrite for instance, in terms of hours? Until you started doing

papers with it, how long?

A: Until I started doing papers with it? Maybe three hours. After I started

doing papers then I was really learning a lot more. The manual is nice in

learning how to do a basic setup, but I think you just have to start in and

really just start to work before you can really set how it uses, how to use the

editing parts and things.

Q: So if you were teaching, say a LD student came in, and you were teaching him

how to use the Macintosh, what would you suggest?

A: Well if they'd had the initial hours with you, I'd actually like them to

come along and bring something that they have, that they need to work on, and

work on it, and see in the pamphlets what they need to work with. Because I

don't know how you've got that set up yet. I'd like to see them bring in

something they need to actually work on, and work on it there, whether or not

they use the Macintosh. Because it gives them, T think, maybe a little better

sense of use and why they have the Macintosh there.

Q: Their own papers, is what you are saying, to really help them. So we're

talking what, four or five hours altogether? Two with me and then two or three

with the follow-up too, right?

A: Yeah, and they should be able to handle it fairly decent. The rest of it

they can kind of figure it out on their own. Discovery. It's part of the fun

of life, is discovery.

Q: One thing that a lot of students have talked about in the interviews is that

they like working with the computer because it's nonjudgmental. Have you ever

noticed that? Does it seem to be easier for you to write because you feel like

the computer is not judging your writing, or isn't critical of your writing?

A: Oh yeah, yeah. It just takes whatever I give it and put it up on the

screen. Which is nice. You know basically it's the same little typewriter.

But what I like about it, -omputer-wise, is that the screen is different to me

than a typewriter page. And I can see how it's set up better. Row it looks,

you know, if it's done right. Then editing is the best part. That's why I

really enjoy the computer.

Q: Okay, tell me about that, about the editing.

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A: It's great. T get a paper back from the teacher with: okay, this is yourfirst draft, before you hand in the final draft you have to correct this

spelling, commas here. All I have to do is put in the program, go to themistake, erase the word, and type in the new one, throw in the commas here and

there, I'm finished. If I had to do it with the typewrite,- I'd have to sit down

and just redo the whole paper over again and probably when I was doing it I'd

make more mistakes. I'd correct the ones I have wrong but then I'd make other

mistakes. After doing a long paper anyway I'm going to make mistakes typing it.

Q: So is that now you used to edit them before you got on the microcomputer, isthat you'd put it all back into the typewriter and type it all up from scratch?

A: Yeah, I'd just have to retype the whole paper over.

Q: Sounds like it took a lot of time.

A: That's why the Macintosh, it frees you up a lot more. It's always stored

there, you don't have to worry about losing it. It's not a problem, I used to

lose papers. I don't have to worry about ihat no more. It's all contained on a

little disk. If I lose my copy all I have to do is throw it back in and copy a

new one.

Q: So, in terms of your writing, has your writing changed any since you've

etarted working with the Macintosh?

A: Yeah, I think I'm a little more free. I'm willing now to express myself

a little bit lore, try to use different words. Itefore my writing it would be

very monotone. I'd be repeating a lot of words because all I did . . I didn't

dare go too high. It's just simple words so I know how to spell them right.

With the Mac I can sit there and type up words I know I don't know how to spell.I can put them in, then I have the speller. I flip that in and it says, 'Hey,

this word is wrong, these words are like it, which one do you want to put in?'

I'll pick out the correct spelling and flick it in.

Q: So you're using the spelling checker?

A: Yeah.

Q: And how do you like tnat?

A: That's great. There's only once in a while I have vroblems with if I spell

a word really off. Then it doesn't recognize them and it'll say: sorry no words

found. So all I do is hold on the action and I do back to the old nitty gritty,

grab the dictionary. If it starts with an 'A', I'll look through all the 'A'

words until I find it or something.

Q: That sounds real tedious?

A: Yeah, I hate that part but if that's the only way I can find out how it's

spelled, I'll go for it.

Q: And that's how you used to do it before you got the spelling checker?

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A: Yeah, you know I might know the first two letters of the word, 'a' 'c' for

'accord' or something like that. Then I'll go through and I'll look through all

the 'ac's until I come to saccorj.'

Q: So how long stow weld it take you to write a paper? You showed me a paper

that was about three or four pages. Row long would it take you to do that from

start to finish?

A: From start to finish? I think I whipped this one up in about two hours.

Q: About two hours?

A: Of course that was with pausing. I type a little bit then save it and go

off and have a cigarette or something. I suppose all in all work is maybe

forty-five minutes.

Q: Forty-five minutes?

A: Forty-five minutes to an hour at most. So like I cranked up one last week

for a class: "Science Fiction is a Form of Utopian Thought."

Q: Tell me again now?

A: "Science Fiction is a Form of Utopian Thought"

Q: "Science Fiction is a Form of Utopian Thought"?

A: Yes, honors college with the CLA. And we had this one . . we had to read a

book and we had to decide whether this one utopia would come to be or not. And

I sa down and I just couldn't get nothing out of my head. Now I wrote the

initial paragraph but I just couldn't get anything till one night, all of a sud-

den, I sat down and in about an hour, four pages came out. And then I printed

it out and handed it in. I was one of the only people. . only two people got

A's. I'm sure if I would have had the typewriter I never would have been able

to do that. Because 1 couldn't have saved the opening paragraph, I wouldn't

have been able to check the spelling so quickly. Because after I wrote it I did

a little editing, I switched a couple of paragraphs around and stuff. To get it

in better order. That's another thing I like about the Macintosh, sometimes

when paragraphs get mixed up and I'm writing so all I have to do is take this

paragraph, I'll cut it, I'll put it up here and paste it there. I can organize

things a little nicer.

Q: So I want to make sure I have this clear. You say that before it would take

you up to two weeks to do a paper?

A: Yeah, just redoing it. I'd be scared. Sometimes with those papers it would

take me maybe three or four days before I even started it. Just thinking about

it. Then I'd write down a couple sentences and I'd stop because I'd be scared

to do anymore. Then I'd write down a couple more a day or tvo later. Then I'd

just compile until soon I had maybe two pages worth of paper. Then I'd go

through and rewrite it all again because I'd never be happy or satisfied with

it. With the Mac I just it down start hitting the typewriter buttons and it

seems like it just flows out of me and on to the screen. And I just do a quick

edit and it's ready.

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Q: 'No weeks compared to two days, right?

A: Yes, I like it.

Q: That's amazing. It sounds like it. Could you tell me, has yoJr attitude

and confidence level changed at all? Your attitude towards your writing, has it

changed?

A: My attitude is that I still enjoy it a lot mare, but I'm a little more open

in showing it to people. I'm not as scared as I was before that they're not

going to like it, they still may not like it, but I don't care. I know they're

at least going to think, someone with a little intelligence for a minute said

before (of my paper) that there were no more than four letters in a word. It's

just like "Don, Dick saw Spot." That kind of writing and I didn't want anybody

to see it.

Q: Some of the students have said that it's easier for them to see their mista-

kes now that they're on a computer. For some reason they can pick up their

spelling errors c. there grammatical errors. Has that happened to you that's

easier for you to see what's wrong?

A: Yes, I can see a lot of times what's wrong. I will miss a few ones, close

ones, but I can see a word a little easier if it's grossly misspelled on the

computer. The problem is I still don't know how to spell it, but I know it's

spelled wrong.

Q: And that's when you pull out the spelling checker?

A: Yes, but see that's the thing I don't have to worry about that because the

spelling checker scans the document anyway. So the thing I really do after

using the spelling check is I like to run through it and make sure I don't have

any things like "and and", sometimes I'll type two 'and's' in a row. Or I'll have

the wrong tense because it won't pick that up, or it won't pick up any typing

errors like "I want to buy that god," instead of dog. It won't check or pick up

that so I run through and check for those kinds of things. But it's nice

because on the computer all I have to do is run down the scroll bar and hit the

paper reflection pass key, so it's easy to check for that kind of proofreading.

Q: So you check it right on the screen then, you don't even rut. a hard copy of

it?

A: No, I don't run a hard copy of it until I'm finished. I save paper, I'm

cheap.

Q: So, in summary, you would say then that since November you used the Macintosh

for how many papers? How many different papers have you written sinct November?

A: Since November? Well, actually I didn't get the 'Mac' until March.

Q: Oh, that's right.

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A: I did two papers, three papers last quarter, before the quarter finished.

And row with this writing course, I've done this is ty fifth paper for him. fill

that's at least two drafts per paper, any. I've handed in another paper for

another course. Well, that plus I'm caretaker for wry property building, so I've

got a lot of notes and notices and stuff like that recorded.

A: Yes, I can make a big attention notice for the tenants and really catch their

eyes.

Q: So, if you were trying to explain to somebody that knew something aboutlearning disabilities, but they didn't know anything about computers, and if youwere trying to explain to them why this is a valuable tool, what would you tell

them? Why is word processing a valuable too' for learning disabilities people?

A: Well, first off it frees your time. It's a lot easier to use than a

typewriter. The computer is only set up like a thinker, so when you putsomething down there it's easier to see when it is wront. The computer someti-

mes, I think acts when it's wrong. I can sense when mine thinks. It's easier

and frees your time, it makes you more creative, makes it a lot easier to see

your mistakes. I'm just telling them to use it, and if they don't like it, they

don't have to use it. But you should at least try something once.

Q: Would you suggest that they buy a computer?

A: Not until they have tried one for awhile. Especially now since they're

available them. It's a lot smarter to come in here and use this Macintoshfor maybe a quarter, type your papers up on it and see how it works for you.

And if you like it, go ahead and make the investment--because it is a large

investment.

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t t

Interview with Dayna

(4: Can you describe for us the process that you will go through? Would you do a

rough draft or would you do an outline? Or let's say you had a paper due. Row

'fouls:, you approrch that?

A: First of all I would have to think for several days the idea what I'm going

to do. The idea all depends on how much information I have to talk about. I

usually have several ideas but I have to cross some ideas out: because I don't feel

I have enough information to put down in my paper and you think that's kind cf.

well, its a weird process because sometia.,ss I get too much information or I talk

too such detail stuff on that topic this gets tr be hard when I start getting

organized to lay out my paper. I know that witn the skills you're supposed to

lay it all out, have your transition sentences and all this stuff but somehow

the time to really use those skills to write my paper becomes hard. And I try

to write it down, and I write little 'A's' and 'B's' to talk about within that

paragraph the ideas with that I'm going to talk about so that I try not to

repeat myself and duplicate the same thing in the same paragraph but I guess the

whole thing with working on this, I start writing my paper and X don't like what

I just read so I recopy it over, rewrite it . . .

Q: Do you scratch it out?

A: No, I make big 'X's', I knot up the

the whole garbage can gets full by thestart it a day beforehand. I start it

No, I go through the paper, that's whykeep dealing with that same individualtime looking at. When I write it down

not keep writing and just complete it a

myself to do that but you know how youkind of pick up again of what you wantit again I get caught in those detailsI reread and so then I change it wherekeep writing until it's all done and th

I just . . .

Q: It doesn't work?

whole paper throw it in the garbage can,

time my paper is, you know. I cannot

way beforehand, to try to work on it.

the word processor is great because I

paper. The other way I spend too suchby hand on a piece of paper, I tend tond get it all done and I try to tellhave to kind of go back and reread to

to say. Then when I go back and rereadagain and then I'm not happy with whatI really know that, hey, I should just

en go back and recorrect it. But somehow

A: It just doesn't function that way. A block comes into play again I get

caught back in the first par:.....ph. Recorrect that. Several times. And then

once its perfect then I'll make that on a fresh copy and then I'll start my

liecond paragraph. And then I don't like my second paragraph and that gets

a veral copies and then I finally pick the one that I like and try to keep

building and by that tis: I go through tons of paper anti that's time consuming.

Q: That's what I was going to ask you. Do you have any idea how long it would

take you, say, maybe to irite a one or two-page theme? From the time you sat

down to start writing it till it was finished, before November.

A: Several times. I would say that could make eight different copies just with

the one to two things. I know with my admittance for ICP do you know how many

times I've rewritten that?

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Q: I can't imagine.

A: And I had my boyfriend help me a little bit, you didn't kr.'..d that part but Ithink I've made eight copies for that two pages. Eight different copies. And

finally now it's accepted. At eight.

Q: At eight, right. And we're talking probably a couple months, easily.

A: We're talking a whole year. .

Q: A year that you've been working on that one paper?

A: . . . that I've been working on that one paper

Q: Did you ever get any help before with your writing, like at Rochester? Or

maybe in grade school or high school, can you do.:;cribe that briefly, what kindof previous help you got.

A: In writing in high school, I didn't get very much at all. In eleventh gradewhen we had to eo a term paper, they just expected you almost to know how to doit, I mean they didn't help you and say you had to go find reference book andlook up things but . really didn't understand the whole operation of how whatparts you were supposed to copy out of the book and what parts you couldrechange and put into your own sentence and footnote I didn't get the whole pro-cess down. It was so complicated and it wasn't explained to me very well. So

what I ended up doing for sty research paper was take my next d or neighbor'swhen they went through and revised it. And I handed it in and got a 'C' on it.And she never knew and that was one way of me getting over that step. I mean Ididn't like doing what I did but I was just so reamed under that whole quarterfor that English it was just on that term paper and it was like as weeks wenton, the further it got; the more swamped I felt. I couldn't ask to go back Iwas too embarrassed to go back and ask: how do you do this? You can't go toother kids an' ask them how to d3 it because they're . . . you know, I didn'twant to come ac ross as being dumb. My writing skills were very poor in highschool, I did anything and everything to try to get by without doing it. And Ididn't take the type of English classes where you did have to write papers. Ifinally realized that the traditional English that was set up, I think it was,well after that one quarter of my eleventh grade where I did that term paper,then finally I went in and took individual classes where I worked on my spellingand grammar and things like that on an individual program.

A: . . . but I worked for a good . . well, I worked for one year very closelywith her all the time. I'd go in almost every other day with her and worked onmy writing. Because that's all you do in freshman English is turn in papers sowe had one paper right after the next, and I remember my papers were just fullof red lines.

Q: That most have been real hard for you?

A: It was. It was frustrating because I felt like when I write, I take it intoa tutor and she changes everything that I said. Some of its the same but stillwhen she changed it I still didn't see that it was my paper I felt it was her

paper because it seemed like she changed all my ideas of what I said.-12- 14

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Q: That makes a lot of sense. And you shared with me that since you'v startedusing the computer you feel more like its your work, right? I remember youtelling me that one day.

A: I just feel that people say: well, if you can't write well, go in and use atutor %.o help correct your writing. Well, yes, I realized my paper is going toget corrected but then I always feel tnat I have to take it to a real smarttutor to do wonders with my paper to get the better grade for my paper and Ijust don't feel that's right.

Q: I hear you saying that that doesn't answer a lot of the problems for you, togo to a tutor.

A: No, it doesn't. It doesn't help me at all. I'm still frustrated, and Istill have problems with ry writing so I'm not improving. Even if they correctit and say: okay, you forgot to use the adverb. Okay, I forgot to use theadverb and if he asks me, just on the single level, what's an adverb, I canusually tell you.

Q: Connecting all the pieces, is that where the block is?

A: Connecting all the pieces, yeah. I can't keep all my tense form the same,like 'are's' or 'is'. Or plural forms, I still am getting goofed up on that.But yes, when a tutor corrects it, the only reason why I take it to a tutor itis so that they can correct it so that I can get a better grade. And there isno satisfaction at all taking it to a tutor only that I've taken it in andthey'll correct it for me. But I don't feel good about my work. Even when Itake it in to them because I'm saying "they're doing it, I'm not doing it,they're doing the corrections."

Q: From you've told me before up to November this was the most help that youhad had with writing.

A: Yes, this made writing more fun. For some reason it was more fun to write,where before it yrs always a pain to write. Just because I would go through somuch paper end by boking and seeing that wastebasket going up with paper thatwas frust,.-ating. In a way, the computer is an encouragement to keep going on.It's another supplement to aid, but it is not a human, so it's not somebody who

can criticize your work where a human can criticize your work and then you knowah-hah my paper wasn't good enough. But somehow when you write a paper on thecomputer, the computer can't say this isn't good enough so you can't feel bad

about what you put in because the computer doesn't know it its good or bad andit's not judging rx. So, in that way it's real fun because then it's just meworking. ?t's me who has to correct my mistakes and nobody else correcting mymistakes or correcting them for me.

alli Mr. M. OW

Q: What did you think the computer would do for you?

A: I didn't know becputer can do for me.have some advantages.that I'm really good.because the ideas are

muse I didn't know at all the possibilities of what the com-But now I know what it does. I know that in my writing II know that I always have good ideas, that's one thingA lot of people that read my papers, they like to read it

there. I have some real good ideas, but somehow I can't-13-

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make those ideas come out very clearly. And I think the sooner I can do thatthe better my priers will be because I definitely have the ideas there. Butdealing with the computer I had no idea what it could do for me and I didn'trealize how fun it was to work with.

Q: You've been working with the computer for how long now? Maybe five or sixmonths?

A: Since November. Right. When you trained me in we went through a couple ofpackages and I kiwi of stopped it right there because I was getting frustratedbecause you wanted me to go through what you wanted to teach me. And I saidwait a minute, just give me the commands. Just give me the main controls. Iwanted, like you said, just quick learn it so I can start using it. I didn'twant to go through all the formality of trying to learn all these things. And

then when we started working about what the commands were for the computer thenit yes like okay wait a minute, now I've got to stop, now I'm picking that up.But now how does this relate. I wanted to see the whole picture of what happensand that's when you went and broke down and said okay you do this and this givesyou the subsystem and that gives you all the options of where you can go toafter that. And you drew out a picture diagram because I learn better visuallyso I needed a diagram to see what the computer was actually doing. Where thesteps were going. And I needed to see that circle, tha picture of exactly whatthe computer could do for me. And then once I realized, oh, so this is vh' thecompute' can do for me. I know the controls now and this where I go, I e- saveit, I can do this, I can get it to print up. Then I got kind of the full pic-ture and the I was able to, I think expand some of my controls of what I coulddo too with the computer.

Q: Sure, to expand to the point that now you can work with other students.

A: I think the main point of going through those packages was if I want to knowsome information about the computer I think its best if I just tell you what Iwant to know and then you give me the answer. Because if you give me what youwant to teach se I'm nct always interested, or I don't always understand thefull picture yet. And so it's harder to accept that knowledge. Where if 1 canjust give you 20 questions about the computer first, and say 'Okay I want it todo this,' it s,etas like I can learn.

Q: For you that seem to be a good way?

A: Yeah, I need to learn for me. So I think it's good for me to start off withquestions first, just some basic questions first about the computer. Then youjust quick answer that so that I feel somewhat satisfied. Because if you juststart teaching me what you want me to know about the computer, I don't feel thatconnection yet with the computer. But if I put the effort in of wanting to knowabout the computer, then I can learn. Then I'm more excited about the computer,put it that way.

Q: And it sounds l'ke you're more motivated.

A: And I'm more motivated, right.

Q: I think you shared with me ebout a month ago that you've done three papers onit?

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i

Q: And you said that the last one took you about five hours to do? And beforeit would of taken you how long?

A: We're talking days. I had some papers to do the quarter before, and I wasjust dreading it. I mean it was just like I knew I had to get it done. It'sfunny, I've always had bad experiences, and people have always corrected mypapers, so how can anybody feel good about their paper if somebody'a alwayschanging what they're doing. Then you feel this low self-esteem that you arenot very good about doing papers, so then when you have to do papers, youalready have this negative feeling about 'yuck, I've got to do a paper'. And youjust don't have any excitement to even begin the paper. It's just a pain fromthe start to the end. All you want to do is just get it done. And not evenhave to worry about the corrections. Just get it done first and then I'll goand worry about the corrections.

Q: Where as now how is it different?

A. Where as now, last quarter when I went to do my papers, I was reallyexcited. It was like, 'I'm going to go now and work over on the computer for zypaper!' I was excited, I felt good about even just approaching starting to workon my paper. I was excited all the way through the whole thing. Somehow withthe computer, it gives me reinforcement through the whole process. It doesn'tgive ae any negative feeling. I don't look at every little detail when I lookat the screen and see some of my mistakes. Because I know that I can puteverything in, go back and correct it whenever I want to, then when I feel thatI've got most of my simple *Little errors out of the way, and I've put in mypaper; then I go and I print it out on a piece of paper. Then I go and I readthat, then I circle all of my errors again. Then I go back to where I saved mypaper, and then I go back and make those changes again. So, it's only reallytwo steps of correcting. It's not all these several procedures of correctir.gthe material. I find out too, that somehow with the computer, which is reallyweird, it's easier than using a typewriter.

Q: Can you talk about that a little bit?

A: Which is a really funny situation, because you think well that should be thesame thing. But dealing the typewriter, there comes that block again. I typeit in, and I just get too caught up on the details of trying to correct everylittle word. I do. But somehow, with the computer, when I type it in, it'sanother aid. I visually see the words for a fun procedure, instead of just oneline at a time. I don't know what it is. I guess the computer is fun to workwith. By having it fun it supplements another aid. And I don't know why ascreen does that in a computer compared to a typewriter and a piec_ of paper; Ireally don't know. It's funny. Because I know what's happening. Because afterI use the computer I try it at home with the typewriter to do it, and I still,that negative feeling is still there about getting my paper done. Where when Iuse the computer, it's fun and enthusiastic to get my paper done. And I want towork on my paper, I want to spend some time getting my paper better. Where theother way it's not there. It doesn't give me any reinforcement. But somehowthe computer gives me reinforcement. Where I feel. good about my paper.

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A: I believe, when I work with the computer, the way I learn to begin with is I

pick up the detailed things before I pick up the general things. And, if Idon't have any general categories, I can't put these detailed things in thoseslots. Ano ietailed things even float away. So what happens when I'mworking with the computer is that it somehow aids me to see the whole broadpaper. The whole concept of the paper is to complete it, to finist. thatparagraph, or to put a perioa to end that sentence. Where when I'm dealing withjust a plain piece of paper, I tend to go to the details and I look at everysingle littlt. word. And I keep trying to change liven every single little word.That's what makes my paper such a long process to complete. Where when I do itwith the computer, it kind of reminds me to, 'Okay, you've got to finish thispaper.' It kind of tells me that for some reason. I don't know how it tells methat, but somehow maybe that's part of my the reinforcement that the computergives me. Which I can't explain right now until I still work with it andbroaden my experience with the computer and try to analyze how that is actuallyworking with me. Or dealing with me. Bow I can overcompensate my handicap whenI deal with the computer.

Q: You were saying before when you and I were talking, that somehow the com-puter helps some of those negative traits to become positive.

A: Right. It just makes me focus on seeing the whole paper, and getting itdown. When I work with just a piece of paper, I get too caught up on it.

Q: One other question that I'd like to ask you is - if someone is training alearning disabled adult how to work with a computer, what would you suggest?

A: Maybe first ask them .... Try not to deal with the negatives. Try not toesk them what their fears are working with the computer. Because, why bringthat up anyway. Try to figure out why they are excited to work with the com-puter. And deal in the positive sense. If they're ex,...ted to work, the firststep is to get them excited to work with the computer. You can tell them 'Hey,the computer is going to help you with your writing.' But until they believethat; then the situation will be better. So it's almost like you kind of haveto prepare their psychological mind before you even approach the computer.Because I think if you just take a learning disability, and set them at a com-puter, they're going to be confused. They're going to have their doubts,they're going to already feel frustrated before they even begin. So you've gotto relax them a little bit and try to get them in a good frame of mind beforethey even sit in front of that computer. And then ask them first, somequestions. 'Well what do you want to know about the computer? What can Ianswer for you first about the computer?' And just play question and answer gamefor awhile, until they feel a little bit more comfortable. And then ask them,'Now are you ready to learn sere about it?' after you've answered a few of theirbasic questions. Then go through and tell them. I think it's good, they'llwant to know that information right away. So go ahead and tell them some ofthe controls: how to go back to the menu, how to do the control. And then goback and give them the general picture- Because, I think with most learningdisability people, they go into two extremes. They see it too such in thebroad, or they see it too much in the detail. I think they lean more to thedetail. So give them some detail information. But then come back around again

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and give them the broad picture of what the computer can do for you. Try toalways go back to the broad, because they'll vanc to keep knowing the detail.Because they want to quick get their paper done, they want to quick know thecommands to get their paper done. So, you have to give them that because that'swhat you want to know and that will encourage them to be more excited about thecomputer.

Q: Do you hire any sense of how many hours in which you would spend working with

a student and the microcomputer?

A: Of just preparing them for the commands?

Q: Yes. Or just preparing them so that they can write a paper on their own and

feel independent.

A: I don't think it has to take long at all. I think just give them a few basiccommands that they can help right away, no more than like ten commands. Justreal few, because I think the best thing to do is to get experience and to getthe feel of the computer. If you tell them what to type in, they really aren'tlearning it so you've got to let them just sit at the computer and let themmaybe just write a letter to their sister, brother, or their mom or something.

Do a fun little experience with them first so they get the feel of it. And then

once they say: Okay, now I want to know. Once they get some experience behindthem, then give them some more commands. It's like anything else, you need alittle bit of experience before you can go on further to know more information.You can't just learn the product knowledge without no experience. It won't sinkin that well.

---A: If they could just accept a few basic commands and just accept them rightnow for what it is and then try to do some experience with the computer, justdoing a fun little letter and use those commands then it will sink in. I thinkwhat I want to sum up about the whole computer is its changed my whole attitudeof writing papers. Before it was such a pain to even begin it and I wasn'texcited and I can say now that dealing with the computer somehow it gives methat reinforcement and since it gives me reinforcement where it overcompensatesthat block and it aids am its like a teacher but its almost become more than ateacher which is dual) to say because nobody should replace a human but thishuman doesn't criticize roe and that's why I guess I like it. But I'm veryexcited and my attitude about writing papers is very positive. And I'm more

willing to work on my papers now with the computer and I think that's a goodattitude now to have. Where before I kept being criticized and now the computerdoesn't criticize me so now I'm starting to feel good about my papers because

nobody is criticizing me anymore. I know that my papers aren't perfect anymoreand I know I still have spelling problems or I know say grammar is not right butsomehow I'm building my confidence back up about my papers and I think that'sthe most important thing; because if someone is constantly criticising you. . .

Q: Are your grades any better? The papers that you've done. Or is that not afair quest ion?

A: I think they have. Yeah, ts hard to tell right now and the only reason why

its hard to tell is because these papers that I turned in were part of my finalsso I didn't go back to my teachers to dig up how well I did on my final. If I

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were to do that, which I probably should so that would give my reinforcement,then I would really know. But right now I don't know because I haven't actuallyseen the letter grade that I got on my paper but to me it doesn't matter itsbecause my attitude has changed just with using the computer and I think that'sthe most important thing is not to have that negative feeling about writingpapers.

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Interview with Mary

Q: Mary, could you give us a little information about your previous history as

a writer; what your writing was like before you started working on that

computer?

A: My writing was really bad. I couldn't spell very good. I'd write things

down on paper and I'd spell the word wrong. I'd get really frustrated because I

wouldn't write a word on the paper right. And, I don't know what the deal is,

but since I've started using the computer I've made a big change. I can see

what is in front of me, the same words that are on the paper. And when it's on

the computer, I can see where my mistakes are right away and change them. I'm

catching them now, faster than when I could before.

Q: Let's go back to like when you were in grade school and high school; what was

your writing like? Like in grade school when you had to write themes, and in

high school when had to write them?

A: It was bad. I just would really get frustrated. I wouldn't want to do

nothing becaus I'd write something, and something would be spelled wrong and

l'd get real frustrated.

Q: Mould you get any help with your writing at all?

A: No. Up until I was a sophomore in high school is when I started getting

help.

Q: And what was that?

A: That was a group called 'Specialuntil ... really I never got much ofjust trying to correct the words andfound, basically, the tools I neededwhen I was in college. Like, how to

Relp'. I never really got such of that

that. They did some, but most of it was

stuff. To help me correct the words. I

that I should have had back in high school,use the dictionary.

Q: And you didn't find that our until you got to college?

A: Righ.

Q: So you're

your writing.Say you had atry and write

saying that that past help really didn't do you a lot of good with

So what would be a typical process that you would go through?theme assigned, like a high school English class. Row would you

that? What would you do?

A: Back then? Well I'd look up things and try and write it. My old way was I

used to chest from the book; take and copy stuff out of the book. I'd get by

with that. And 'woe of it did work, but you can't use it all the time. Because

you've got to put your own words in. When I'd start doing that I'd start

spelling them wrong, so I didn't like it. I used a dictionary but I'd get

frustrated because I wouldn't know how to look up a word, I wouldn't know how to

spell it right.

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Q: What about using unlined paper, or paper that didn't have lines on it. Was

it a problem for you to keep your lines straight, to keep the spacing?

A: Yeah, it was so crooked. Ir always had a paper that looked like it was going

sideways. Especially with ,.unlined paper.

Q: 3o what kind of grades did you get in English classes, like in high school

and junior high?

A: I gut C's and D's .1 remember une thing that I wrote that I got an A on,

but that wasn't for an s.nglish class, that was for a Science class.

Q: You're kind of different than the other students that we've taped in that

you taught youraelf how to use the computer.. And it took you about a year, you

told me, to teach yourself? Can you kind of describe that process for me?

A: I had an upper level English class, and I wasn't sure how I was going to get

through that class. I had a theme to write every week. Well I started talking

to the instructor, and he suggested that I use a computer. I wanted to try it

and just play around with it. I one day sat down with one of the tutors and

asked if he could tell me a little bit about the computer. He taught me just

the basics. I went on it a year all by myself, and just started teaching myself

what I needed to know.

Q: Okay; and what was your first response to the computer when this instructor

said to you 'Why don't you use the computer.'?

A: 'Oh I'm not going to be able to do this, because it's like a typewriter.' I

had used the typewriter a little bit back when I was back in high school, but

not very such. That was like, so little. But after I used it a couple times I

got really familiar with it. I mean it was new and all that. I got used to

using it. If I made a mistake I could go back and change it. That's what you

couldn't do with a typewriter.

Q: I see, okay. So that was real important to you, being able to self-correct

your own errors?

A: Yeah.

Q: So basically you sat down and tried to use the manual and just played with

the computer; just kept trying to work your way through the manual. Was there

anything about the manual that made it hard for you to understand?

A: Yeah, the manual gets toe complicated, I think. It's too ... you're got to

really sit there and look at it and really figure it out.

Q: Yeah, because I remember you telling me, and tds has been five or six

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months ago, you told me it took you almost a year, if I remeaber right, for you

to actually figure out how to use the software between the manual and the

instructions this person wrote out for you in your own experience right?

A: Right.

Q: So it took you almost a year to use Apple Writer, and at that point, you hf.d

done what? Probably ten or twelve papers at least, didn't you?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: And you just it and keep writing rough drafts, over and over and over

again?

A: I'd write one and then I'd print it, and I'd look at it and circle my mista-

kes. It was saved so I'd go back and pull it up, and I'd go back and I'd take

the rough draft that I had in front of me, and I'd take and I'd go and I'd see

where my mistake was and I'd correct it. I'd use twenty-five sheets of paper

but I'd do it until I got to the right one.

Q: Were you satisfied with what you got? The final draft?

A: Yeah, yeah, because I was coming up with a real good final draft.

Q: What happened to your grades when you started using the microcomputer?

A: Oh they changed. They went up.

Q: They went up? Tell me about that a little bit.

A: Well in that class, I ended up with a C in there, which is really good.

Especially since it's an upper level class. I didn't ever expect to even pass

the class, and now I got a C in there. Now, on my own, writing a report paper

for G-neral College - the Human Services, I somehow gave myself the confidence,

saying 'Hey, you can do it, just sit down and write it.'

Q: No kidding? So you're writing kind of 8 project.

A: Yeah, I am.

Q: It's like a multi -page paper, right? Totally on your own?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: And you feel like you can do it?

A: Yep.

Q: Good for you, good for you. That's really neat.

Mil...1. am. ow.

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Q: So Mary, you've had a lot of experience now working with the computer, andtell me a little bit about which software you like best. You've worked withMagic Window now, and you've worked with Appl. Writer, and you just tried somenew software, just brand new software.

A: I'm not sure what to tell you on that!

Q: Which of the three do you like the best?

A: Probably the newer stuff that I tried. so far.

Q: Okay, why do you like it the beat?

A: Because it's real easy. I mean it is just real basic.

Q: What's easy about it. Tell me about that.

A: The steps. The steps you go through. You just don't have ten differentsteps to get to your code, to get to what you want to get to your writing. Imean this is really easy. And then if you make a mistake, there's a category onthat to tell you where you mistakes are.

Q: I see. So the software, the way it's written is easier for you tounderstand?

A: Yep.

Q: If say you were talking to a professional or another learning disabled stu-dent, and you wanted tC, explmin to them why it's good to use a microcomputer,what would you say?

A: Well, if it was another learning disabled student, I would say that the com-puter has advantages for the spelling; your writing - being able to read yourwriting, being able to read ghat you wrote. Just being able to help you allaround. And it does not take that much longer time. If you were to sit downand write and get frustrated, and sit there for three or four hours trying towrite a paper, you can sit at that computer and write that paper and save it andgo back and change your mistakes.

Q: Okay, so let's say that before you started using the word processor, howlong would it take you to write a paper?

A: About four hours, four or five hours.

Q: Four or five hours to write a paper for class'

A: Yes. That wasn't a very big one either, I mean that was like only fourpages.

Q: Okay, okay. Now let's say that you're using the microcomputer. Bow long

does it take you to write that same paper?

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I

A: nro and a half to three hours, counting time and a half, now that I know

what I'm doing.

Q: What were the obstacles for you, in terms of using the computer? What were

obstacles that you saw were problems for you?

A: Well, remembering things, remembering like the arrows, remembering how to

use the print, just remembering how to do things. Until I got them written

down. Remembering how to start.

Q: So it was the actual steps using the commuter?

A: Yeah. Once you got familiar with it, there was no problem. It's like it's

stuck there now.

Q: So how has your attitude changed in term of your writing?

A: Oh I enjoy writing now.

Q: Do you really?

A: Yeah. I thought, 'when I have to do this project for GC, an I really going

to want to do that project or not?' But, I just thoroughly enjoy writing now.

It's no big deal.

Q: So you feel like it's easier for your thoughts to get out now, than before?

A: Yeah, it is.

Q: Okay. Could you tell me, if you were (because this is another project that

you're involved in with me right now), if you were training in another learning

disabled student on how to use the computer, what would you do with them?

A: I'd take them on step one, right from the basics: where to turn the com-

puter on, which disk drives to use, whet to use. Just the basics, how

everything works.

Q: Bow voula you do that? Would you give them a manual?

A: No, I would sit down with them step-by-step because it would be easier for

them to 'learn and faster for them to pick it up. Giving them a manual and say

'here read this manual', and Cher sitting there trying to read it, they'll get

frustrated and say what's the use. You're lo ing time limit. You might as well

go through it step-by-step first until they know what they are doing. After

they know what they're doing, let them go on their own.

Q: Do you think it's important to have comnuters assessable for all these stu-

dents, like maybe in a laboratory or maybe at To Well Hall like you were telling

me?

A: Yes, I think they should have mare on campus that are assessable. A lot

more.

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Q: In different places on campus, or during different hours of the day?

A: During different hours and plus different places because it's kind of hard,

I mean yeah they got computers in certain places you can use if you get specialpermission and all this. I mean you have to go through all the red tape, but if

a student was able to take your I.D. and go and use that computer, write that

paper, and print it out thenthat would help. It's when you can write your

paper and not proofread it until two days later, that's when you get frustrated.

Q: So kind of in orumary, what would you say, how has the word processing

changed you right now?

A: It's changed me a big deal. I feel I can write better now. And I am more

willing to write now than I was before. before I didn't care about writing, I

didn't want to write. And now I can really write a lot better.

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Interview with Bonnie

Q: Star. by talking about your previous history as a writer. What your writing

skills were like.

A: I've always tried to get around writing. I've found that I have found

(which is probably wrong to begin with, so you can see my writing talents), that

I have come up with an ingenuous way of not writing, of not putting it down in

written words with my own hand. Because in writing a letter, I've always been

criticized for my spelling and for not writing the letter down coherently so

that people can really read it. I had even went to the extent where instead of

writing letters to my mother I bought two tape recorders, one for her, so that

we could tape letters back and forth. And that also speeded it up, I wouldn't

sit there for hours on end trying to think of what to write, I could just sit

there for thirty minutes and talk to her.

Q: So, your problems with writing had been in both your personal life in terms

of your own, like writing letters and that kind of thing, and also writing in

school?

A: Yes.

Q: How did that affect when you were in school, like your assignments? Maybe

for junior high and high school when you would have to write papers, themes and

that kind of thing?

A: A lot of times especially in high school, I would end up not turning in

anything, none of the assignments. I had some very good excuses.

Q: What were some?

A: I can give you a lot of reasons why I left that paper at home, which is a

lie, because it wasn't written in the first place. I wrote very few of them

that were due. A good aid that I would have was sometimes I would sit down and

talk about it with my mother and my mother would end up saying "Oh that's a good

idea, why don't we put it down on paper, and she would put it down her way, her

English background, and it would come out sounding Rich better than anything I

could have ever done. The idea is that the instruction helps.

Q: So then you were introduced to a word processor. Tell me a littlt bit of

your past experience, with corriters and word processors.

A: I'm married to a computer. He thinks, eats, and sleeps computers.

Sometimes he gets a new toy for the computer and takes the thing to bed with

him. And they're his. Be e'en he:, this special savings account for computers,

and he pays his technical membership ':es out of this, and he buys the little

dicta that he needs frir his computer, and everything. It is all hit, really -

work tool. It is a hobby, work, a job. He is very concerned about his com-

puter; that you don't touch it with sticky fingers. And I'm 35 years old, and

he's talking, 'Don't get my computer full of your jelly sandwich.'

Q: Did you work on the computer? Or did you have any freedom with his

computer?

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A: Yeah, I tried to do a program that he bought for me. Re decided that in

order to ease my grief over the fact that he had gone out and spent over $900.00

on the computer, that I would feel a lot better if I could also use the com-

puter. But then there's that thought thet 1 sight break the computer. So he

went out and bought a tape, a disk. The problem with that was, I had to know

when the red light was on, when to put the disk in. And that really imposed

upon me quite a bit. I had to make sure that the area was clean around the com-

puter. if there was a breakdown or something. And that I followed the direc-

tions .t he gives me precisely. And he is so high and above computers, I mean

he's way up here. Looking down in passing when he first accessed the computer,

he can no longer remember that. So he wrote down the instructions on how to use

the computer, but he left out a few steps. Like how to turn this button on. So

I would start getting into the computer, and get lost. And he didn't even know

I was missing some -f the stuff he does, because he does it automatically. And

I didn't know about that.

Q: So then when you came to work with me on computers, how did you feel about

coming into the situation, and trying to do word processing?

A: I'm going to blow it! I should know this, I really should. I mean I felt

like - I'm going to get to the end of this disk, like the disk on the TI, and

the whole machine is going to die. I'm going to think that I did something, and

I'm going to sit there and I'm not going to want to tell anybody about it.

Because if I get into a problem, I've got to get myself out of it before I wreck

the computer. I might do something wrong. I don't want to do it but yes, I do

want to do it.

Q: And how did that change? We worked for about three sections, didn't ye?

Using the packets and the disks. Row have your perceptions of the computer

changed now?

A: Well, the Apple, I'm really anxious to get back and keep going on it. I

still am a little bit worried about using my husband's toy. But the Apple is

something diffe.-ent. I know that if I'm going to blow it that people are going

to understand, that I just didn't know what I was doing. But with the TI, I'm

still a little bit wary to get back into those programs and learn their

language. Because, if I blow it, my husband won't understand because I'm a

bright, intelligent super - learning type person. And he wouldn't have married

somebody who blows the computer program.

Q: So you're saying that a good part of your success with the computer is how

you turn on the computer?

A: Yeah.

Q: I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I'm gathering that from what

you 're saying.

A: Well, I think it's the same problem that I have with a lot of the teachers.

I can go in, and I can really relate to one teacher, and know exactly what he's

talking about and how he's going. And I could take exactly the same class from

another teacher, and maybe totally miss his whole subject content just because

he has his class structured differently. So it's the struct "re of the program

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Q: Would the packets help you on that? I'm real interested in your feedback.

Do the packets seem to help you understand?

A: To a point. Well, there is unt packet for TI. So you have nothing to read

and work at at the same time. So, you don't have anything to read and go to.

It was like an extra aid. If I blew it, and the computer wasn't going to give

me any help, I could go back to the packet.

Q: So all you had was a disk, in effect.

A: All I had was a disk. Right. So any packet, whatsoever, is going to be

helpful.

Q: So how do you think the word processor, the actual computer, how did that

change your writing? Or did it change your writing?

A: I don't think it has changed my writing as much as its gotten across -

correct. Its corrected my writing. Its just brought my writing down to where

my thoughts are.

Q: So seeing the whole picture, seeing the whole paper in one place, that's

helpful to you?

A: Yeah, just seeing it. Row it's going to look when it is done. Whether it's

going to balance 0-* whether it's going to seem too long, whether people are

going to . . . I .,uess the commercial aspect of it, whether at a glance it's

going to be eye-catching when it is all typed. That's what the finished product

is going to look like - what was on the screen. And not have to print it out

fifteen times to see what that commercial art appeal is going to look like.

Whether they are going to want to look at it or if they can see how much is

involved. Then just spread it out, to use different type faces to set, maybe

enlarge or darken one. Seeing that is really great.

Q: Some of the students have said that it helps them see your errors more

quickly or it helps them see the finished product of the paper more quickly. Is

that more helpful to you when you're working with the computer?

A: Yes. If I ga through and type the whole thing and then go back and look at

it, I'll find the errors, but if I them down in my own handwriting, whatever I

personally write down looks totally correct to me.

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i 1 t i

Interview with Gary

Q: So, let's say you were writing a composition paper for an English class, how

long would it take you to write that paper?

A: Realistically?

Q: Realistically.

A: A month. If it was something that I just whipped together, that I didn't put

any thought into it, possibly a week. But, if I want to get a good grade on

somethinl, a composition, at least a month. Unless I had a lot of help on it,

which in most cases I did.

Q: Were you frustrated by that, that it took you so long to write an assignment?

A: Yes, I'm finding in the last week that I'm getting more frustrated with my

homework than I did fall quarter or winter quarter.

Q: Why was working the Macintosh hard for you? Can you describe it?

A: I wasn't able to move the arrow or the mouse to where we wanted it - my hand

would jerk at the last minute. This happens every now and then, especially when

I'm nervous. I just didn't feel comfortable.

Q: Then we moved ,ou to the Apple II+ and you started using the matrix window.

How did that work for you?

A: Everything is laid out and all. All the directions on the disks were to push

a button. I found the buttons and just followed the menu. It's easy for me to

follow a menu.

Q: That's the packets, right?

A: Yes, the packets. On good days I have . . I mean I have a few good days and

a few bad days. And working on the computer . . I know the first time I came in

I was frustrated at that because I read it . . it's just that day it didn't

comprehend. I didn't know what I was doing.

Q: Didn't you, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't it one hand that you adapted or

used differently so you could press down a couple of keys at the same time?

A Well, I don's. 1-,z-ve complete function of my left hand.

Q: Okay, that's what it was.

A: And so I have to keep that as stiff as possible. And I do most of my work

with my right hand.

Q: And you're able to type, from what you told me, you're able to type pretty

well?

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II

%.: Chicken peck but it's hell.

Q: It still works, huh? So what were some of the obstacles that you were

working with in your writing? Maybe that changed or better stuff here using the

computer?

A: Knowing where all the letters and numbers are on the computer.

Q: Row do you think that will help you? Do you think it will help you see

easier the big picture of what the instructor is saying or will it help you

follow your handwriting better or how do you see that help you?

A: When I read something, it's like home. It's just something going in my

head, in one ear and out the next. But if I write it down . . even if I write

it down I can't understand what I write, which is etrange. But it's clear on

the picture tube - on the computer. And if I can see it.

Q: It makes it easier for you to understand it. Do you have any idea why that

is?

A: Because there's no blur. See, my handwriting is so bad. My 'i's' look like

'e's' or look like 'l's' or something. It's just one big mess. But if I put like

'i's' in here or 'l's' in here, it's clear and then if I get it printed I can read

the clarity and understand it better. Possibly give examples if I have any.

Q: So long as translate your pates for you? What else do you think the com-

puter will do for you like in terms of your writing assignments? Do you have

any idea at this point whether it will help your writing or increase your

writing or . . what do you think it's going to do for you?

A: I'm not really sure. Rere, just pushing the buttons as opposed to writing

them down I don't see . . . There's a lot of differences but I don't see how I

can compare my writing to just pushing buttons.

Q: So kind of, in summary, do you see any advantageP at all for using the com-

puter at this point?

A: Yes

Q: And what are they?

A: Well, to help me a lot with my reading journals. Good understanding of fey

class notes. And, if possible, if there's any disks like them working with math

to get a better understanding. Now, I've only encountered working with the

reading comp. But I'm not sure if they have math disks or what they have.

Q: Coming to a conclusion. If you were talking to maybe some other pro-

ftsionals, or if you were talking about using the computer with learning

disabled students, how would you explain that to them. Or what would you say to

them? -29-

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A: I would say, in my case, that it was easier for me to learn the computer, and

faster, if everything was done step by step and told me what I had to do next

and then told me what to expect.

Q: So that's how you would like to be taug)..t? If other people, other LD people,

were being taught on the computer that s what you would suggest?

A: Right.

Q: Like a step-by-step format.

A: Right. So they can get a clear knowledge of what they're doing inbtead of

walking into a class and the instructor would talk all hour and then taking

questions and stuff at the end of the hour, and everybody being lost.

Q: And that's what you think would happen without a step-by-step format?

A: Right. Not in all of them, but in my case. Unless I see it and write it

down and not just see it, I can't do the work.

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