C S R ASSOCIATES (609) 641-7117 Email: … · 9/17/2015 · 20 LANCE B. LANDGRAF, JR. Chairman ... 4 last application is for Paul and John Jackson. 5 It's Application number 2015-09-1666

C S R ASSOCIATES (609) 641-7117 Email: [email protected]

C S R ASSOCIATES - Certified Court Reporters

Page 21 above-referenced matter, taken at the CASINO

2 REINVESTMENT DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY, 15 South

3 Pennsylvania Avenue, Atlantic City, New Jersey,

4 before Karen A. Haworth, a New Jersey Certified

5 Court Reporter (CCR), nationally certified

6 Registered Professional Reporter (RPR),

7 nationally certified Certificate of Merit holder

8 (CM), nationally certified Certified Realtime

9 Reporter (CRR), a Delaware Certified Shorthand

10 Reporter (CSR), nationally certified Certified

11 LiveNoteTM Reporter (CLR), and Notary Public of

12 the State of New Jersey, on the above date,

13 commencing at 10:09 a.m., there being present:

14

15

16

17 APPEARANCES:

18 CASINO REINVESTMENT DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY:

19

20 LANCE B. LANDGRAF, JR.

Chairman

21

22

23 ROBERT REID

Land Use Enforcement Officer

24

25



Page 31 PROFESSIONALS TO THE BOARD FOR THIS HEARING:

2

3 SCOTT G. COLLINS, ESQUIRE

Riker, Danzig, Scherer, Hyland & Perretti

4

5

6 CHRISTINE COFONE

Cofone Consulting Group

7

8

9

10 COUNSEL FOR THE APPLICANT:

11

12 CALLAGHAN, THOMPSON & THOMPSON, ESQUIRES

BY: BRIAN J. CALLAGHAN, ESQUIRE

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25



Page 41 I N D E X

2

3 WITNESS(ES) PAGE NO.

4 JON BARNHART

5 Direct Examination

By: Mr. Callaghan 9

6

7

8

9 EXHIBITS MARKED AND/OR REFERRED TO:

10 A-1

11 A-2

12 A-3

13 A-4

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25



Page 51 (Time noted: 10:09 a.m.)

2

3 LANCE LANDGRAF: All right. The

4 last application is for Paul and John Jackson.

5 It's Application number 2015-09-1666.

6 This one is for a use or D-1-type

7 variance for a single family dwelling in the

8 RS-C district.

9 Rob, we have proper notice to hear

10 this one as well?

11 ROBERT REID: Yes. I reviewed the

12 proof of service provided by Mr. Callaghan's

13 office, and we have jurisdiction to hear this

14 application.

15 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay.

16 Mr. Callaghan, it's a busy morning.

17 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Good morning.

18 Brian Callaghan, of the law firm Callaghan,

19 Thompson & Thompson.

20 This is on behalf of Paul and John

21 Jackson, 117 Dewey Place, Block 79, Lot 8.

22 A little bit of background. I have

23 Mr. Jackson here.

24 This property has been owned by the

25 Jackson family since 1969. Paul is the youngest



Page 61 of eight children, who went through

2 Massachusetts Avenue, Atlantic High, into the

3 Air Force, college, worked for Boeing for 30

4 years, getting ready to retire, and was thinking

5 of maintaining it as a single family home to

6 build a new house here.

7 Going through the process, we told

8 him it's not permitted any longer.

9 The house was knocked down a number

10 of years ago. He was part of the Mike Land

11 fiasco when Mike Land, the attorney, came on to

12 Dewey Place and was trying to buy the entire

13 block, gave everybody $10,000. Wound up going

14 bankrupt at that time.

15 The city knocked the property down.

16 He paid a water bill, he was telling me, for

17 $5,000 because they knocked -- the city knocked

18 it down, they didn't shut off the water. So, he

19 finally got a water bill for 5,000 with water

20 running out on the street.

21 So, he has been on the block for --

22 since 1969 to the present.

23 We looked at it and thought, well,

24 nothing's happened in 50 years so maybe it's

25 time for a change. And here we are.



Page 71 So, what we're asking for today is,

2 technically, a use variance because we're in the

3 RS-C zone, where single family is not permitted,

4 and we're asking for bulk variances, because

5 when you look at your zone, you need 30,000

6 square feet, which would mean we really --

7 really got to buy three-quarters of the entire

8 block to do something. So, we have front yard

9 setbacks, side yard setbacks, rear setbacks, and

10 coverages.

11 We have submitted --

12 We originally submitted letters to

13 Mr. Rodman back in 2014, contiguous owners, to

14 see if he wanted to buy us or sell it. Not

15 interested.

16 We asked the City of Atlantic City

17 if they wanted to buy it. Not interested.

18 As part of our application process,

19 Mr. Reid had suggested to see if we could secure

20 access easements because our side yards would be

21 two -- a little over two feet.

22 We talked with Art Sklar, who is

23 the attorney for the owners next door, and he

24 was not willing to give us an access easement,

25 but he was willing to do revocable licenses so



Page 81 that, A, if we needed to maintain our building,

2 we could do so, or, in the future, if they

3 needed to -- if they decided to build something

4 that would require them to use our property to

5 gain access to their property, that we would

6 agree to do that. It was agreeable. We have

7 the letter from Mr. Sklar. It's dated July 27,

8 2015, which indicates: "I represent SE Inlet

9 Properties, LLC. Acknowledge receipt of your

10 letter. Because it owns other properties in the

11 block and plans are uncertain, it's not in a

12 position to grant an access agreement. We would

13 be agreeable to a revocable license."

14 LANCE LANDGRAF: Do we have copies

15 of that in the application file or --

16 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: I don't know, but

17 I'll mark it for you and submit it as an

18 exhibit.

19 SCOTT COLLINS: Let's call the

20 application submission A-1 and we'll call that

21 A-2.

22 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Fine.

23 I'll mark this as A-2. I'll just

24 put that up here so you guys have it.

25 (Indicating.)



Page 91 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thank you.

2 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Okay. Without --

3 I have Jon Barnhart here. So, I'd

4 like to have him sworn in. And we can walk you

5 through the process of what we're asking for.

6 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. Would you

7 swear in Mr. Barnhart?

8

9

10

11 JON BARNHART,

12 having been duly sworn in by Scott

13 Collins, Esquire, was examined and

14 testified as follows:

15

16 JON BARNHART: I do.

17 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Do I need to go

18 through Mr. Barnhart's qualifications?

19 LANCE LANDGRAF: No. He's

20 certainly qualified as an engineer and planner

21 in the state of New Jersey.

22 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Okay.

23

24 DIRECT EXAMINATION

25 BY BRIAN CALLAGHAN:



Page 101 Q. Jon, why don't you walk them

2 through the site a little bit and give them an

3 idea of what we're intending to do and why we're

4 intending to do it?

5 A. Okay. Should we consider all these

6 electronic exhibits A-3?

7 SCOTT COLLINS: That works.

8 THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm going to

9 start with the current Atlantic City tax map.

10 The property, as Mr. Callaghan

11 pointed out already, is right on Dewey Place,

12 just a few lots off of the Atlantic City

13 Boardwalk, which is on the top of this exhibit.

14 Actually, here, guys. If you want

15 to --

16 I can point here, if that's easier

17 for you.

18 It's Block 79, lot number 8. It's

19 a few properties off what was once the

20 Atlantic City Boardwalk, along the -- along the

21 inlet section of the City of Atlantic City.

22 The property has a frontage of

23 19.67 feet and a depth of 90 feet and it has a

24 total lot area of just over 1,770 square feet.

25 You can see the preponderance of



Page 111 the blocks around us are all set up in very

2 similar lots. They are all different type lot

3 areas, lot depths, but there are many, many lots

4 on our side of the street and the other side of

5 Dewey Place, and even going onto New Hampshire

6 Avenue that are very consistently sized with the

7 lot that we are here for this morning as part of

8 the application.

9 So, I'm going to give you a minute

10 or two of site history because I think it's kind

11 of important to this project.

12 What I have -- what I'm showing you

13 now is the 1938 Franklin atlas. This is a shot

14 of that area. You see the Atlantic City

15 Boardwalk in the gray-shaded area.

16 You see the buildings that were in

17 this area. Every one of these buildings at this

18 time were residential. There were duplexes,

19 there were singles, there were apartment

20 buildings, there was a mix of all different

21 types of residential construction. But, the key

22 to this is, they were all residential

23 construction, and it ties to why we think what

24 we're asking for this morning is very, very

25 appropriate.



Page 121 So, you can see that was 1938.

2 This is a photo -- and this is a

3 big part of working with a business like Arthur

4 Ponzio Company. Some of the -- some of the

5 things we have in our files are just

6 unbelievable.

7 This is a photograph, it was dated

8 1965, of the inlet section. And you can see

9 this is the time when Atlantic City was

10 thriving. This is a time when this entire area

11 was residential, it was high-end residential.

12 People loved to live down this end of the

13 island. In fact, Arthur Ponzio, the owner of

14 our company -- business, lived right here. This

15 was an area that was very, very desirable to

16 live in. And as was explained, Mr. Jackson's

17 family grew up in this area. And you can see

18 what it once was.

19 And when you look at your master

20 plan and some other supporting documents that

21 the CRDA has, you can see that it's our opinion

22 that that's the direction that everybody wants

23 to see it go again into the future.

24 Okay. So, now where are we?

25 Here's today or relatively close to today. This



Page 131 is a Goggle map of what's left out there. We've

2 got the apartment building right on the

3 Boardwalk, which everybody knows has been -- has

4 presented a lot of difficulties over the years

5 with regard to its maintenance and things.

6 We've got some structures remaining.

7 You know, you get to the left, over

8 here, you can see just a glimpse of the sidewall

9 of the Revel casino. And you've got some --

10 you've got a couple high-rise apartment

11 buildings. And then the balance of it you can

12 see in this area is, essentially, vacant.

13 Dewey Place, you can see -- we

14 dropped a pin right on 117 Dewey Place. You can

15 see where that is right now. It actually looks

16 like a beach.

17 Atlantic City Boardwalk, completely

18 decimated in the storm and removed. And that's

19 kind of where we sit today.

20 But, fortunately, we're in a

21 position where this, we think, is quickly going

22 to change. And we're excited that Mr. Jackson

23 really is one of the first in. And we hope that

24 he's the first of a couple hundred people that

25 want to come before you to do something similar



Page 141 to this.

2 This is a --

3 Where we stand today is -- and --

4 is that we have the Army Corps of Engineers

5 literally out there now, working to reconstruct

6 a sea wall on the Boardwalk. It starts at

7 Oriental Avenue and takes you down toward

8 Caspian Point -- or toward Caspian Avenue.

9 When you get to Caspian Avenue,

10 there's a City of Atlantic City project that we

11 are fortunate enough to work on to create a

12 Boardwalk and sea wall that takes you all the

13 way into Gardner's Basin.

14 And down toward the bottom of this,

15 you've got a piece of Boardwalk that goes from

16 Oriental Avenue all the way down to where Revel

17 reconstructed their Boardwalk -- the piece of

18 Boardwalk at Rhode Island Avenue that the

19 City of Atlantic City is putting out to bid for

20 complete reconstruction of -- that bid is

21 actually going out in a few weeks and starting

22 construction in the fall, within the next couple

23 months.

24 So, what you will have here in

25 relatively, especially in Atlantic City time



Page 151 frames -- in relatively short order, you're

2 going to have a completely reconstructed sea

3 wall and Boardwalk from the piece that Revel did

4 all the way around the inlet and into Gardner's

5 Basin. And you're going to have that on one of

6 the most beautiful inlets -- one of the most

7 scenic inlets, I think, in the state of New

8 Jersey or -- and, really, even on the east

9 coast.

10 What we were --

11 What everybody has been hopeful for

12 is that that would spur development in the area.

13 Mr. Jackson is here for a single

14 family house, but he saw that, and that's why

15 he's back. His family has owned this property

16 for all these years.

17 If it wasn't for what's going on,

18 which, fortunately, a lot of it is as a result

19 of CRDA actions, being able to make these

20 projects move forward, but if it wasn't for

21 that, Mr. Jackson wouldn't be here and nobody

22 behind him would be here, because this has been

23 such a difficult area.

24 But, what we're faced with this

25 morning is we're in the RS-C zone. This is



Page 161 casino zoning.

2 I think recent years have kind of

3 proven out that that doesn't work here. In the

4 areas where there are existing casinos, they're

5 struggling, as we know from all the different

6 stories.

7 So, we have to show you that this

8 is an appropriate use for this location because

9 we -- because we are, indeed, variance -- or use

10 variance conditioned.

11 So, how do we do that? Well, go to

12 --

13 And Miss Cofone, one of the things

14 I like about Miss Cofone's report, she does a

15 lot of my work for me with regard to -- with

16 regard to talking -- or reviewing the master

17 plan of the CRDA.

18 But, if you go to Miss Cofone's

19 report, she summarizes it. And I'll just

20 quickly read it. She said -- Miss Cofone's

21 report indicates: "The subject property is

22 located in the Atlantic City Tourism District.

23 Pursuant to the New Jersey CRDA Tourism District

24 master plan, the overall intention and vision of

25 the master plan is to reinvigorate Atlantic City



Page 171 in the near term as a leading resort destination

2 in the northeast and beyond."

3 Well, in order to do that, you have

4 -- you have to have development. And you have

5 to have residential development because you need

6 people that want -- that want to live here, work

7 here and play here. You hear that live, work,

8 play thing all the time.

9 So, while we're just here for a

10 single family house on a small lot, it's a

11 steppingstone. It's a start to what we hope

12 becomes a trend in this area that was

13 residential a hundred years ago, and history

14 wants to repeat itself. It wants to come back

15 and be residential. And we think it's the

16 appropriate use for this location.

17 We did a little more reading with

18 regard to some documents that the CRDA has, and

19 that is, the Urban Land Institute put together a

20 study or a summary of the south inlet area. And

21 one of --

22 I'm just going to read a couple

23 excerpts from that, because I think it really

24 hits home and hits the point of what we're

25 trying to accomplish here this morning. And I



Page 181 took this right off the CRDA's website.

2 So, the assignment of the Urban

3 Land Institute was this: "At the request of the

4 Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, the

5 ULI panel was asked to provide strategic advice

6 regarding the south inlet neighborhood. That

7 neighborhood is located at the north end of

8 Absecon Island and is bound by the Atlantic

9 Ocean."

10 This is the south inlet area. We

11 are right in the heart of it with this

12 application.

13 It goes on to say: "Part of the

14 vision is to return to Atlantic City's roots as

15 members of a middle income diverse community who

16 want to experience the ocean environment while

17 entertaining themselves and their families."

18 Again, it goes to the heart of what

19 we're proposing this morning, because we're

20 proposing a modestly-sized house for a middle

21 income family right in the heart of the south

22 inlet area.

23 It goes a little further under its

24 recommendations. And this is where I --

25 You know, as I read this, it was



Page 191 pretty compelling to me.

2 Under recommendations, development

3 strategies for what they think should now be

4 called the Lighthouse District as opposed to the

5 South Inlet District, kind of rebranding it.

6 But, it says: "The Lighthouse District offers

7 opportunities to create a neighborhood that

8 integrates historic and modern building while

9 creating a distinct and authentic Atlantic City

10 character."

11 What we propose here is to develop

12 what was once there. It doesn't get more

13 authentic than that. It's a row house-style

14 building on a 19 and a half foot wide lot, but

15 it's going to have absolutely tremendous views

16 of the oceanfront and the inlet.

17 It further goes on to say: "As

18 work in the Lighthouse District begins, it will

19 be critical for the development to adapt the

20 reality of what's there, to remove what should

21 not stay and to rebuild in a carefully thought

22 out and strategic way."

23 Well, fortunately, we're pretty

24 close to removing what shouldn't stay with -- as

25 -- except for a couple of properties because the



Page 201 majority of them are vacant.

2 And then it finalizes by saying:

3 "Beach cottages, row houses and Atlantic City

4 vernacular single family houses 'should' be

5 interspersed with low and mid-rise buildings

6 that draw their inspiration from the surrounding

7 scale and design of the Lighthouse District's

8 historic fabric. In a committed effort to

9 create a stable neighborhood, redevelopment will

10 emphasize home ownership."

11 Again, this -- I couldn't have

12 written this better for the application that you

13 have before you this morning.

14 So, all of these items; your master

15 plan, the study prepared by ULI at the request

16 of the CRDA, they all, in our opinion, promote

17 the purposes of zoning. Because we have a site

18 that is clearly particularly well suited for the

19 proposed -- for the use that we propose. And

20 because it's particularly well suited, we

21 believe that we can put forth special reason

22 number 1 with regard to the MLUL, and that is

23 that we are promoting the general welfare of the

24 application.

25 Getting into that -- into that a



Page 211 little further, I believe that there are some

2 other special reasons that exist to establish

3 the positive portion of the d. variance, and

4 that is the establishment of appropriate

5 population densities.

6 As I mentioned, we're a single

7 family home on -- a single family home on what

8 was once a single family attached home. We are

9 in an area --

10 I showed you the tax map already.

11 I'll just flip back to it quickly. We're in an

12 area that the lots are set up as either single

13 family attached or single family detached or

14 duplex-type lots. They're set up residentially.

15 They are contrary to what the

16 ordinance permits at this point. And as I get

17 into the c. variances -- you know all this

18 already, but as I get into the c. variances,

19 you'll hear what a departure the ordinance is

20 from what actually exists at -- in this area.

21 So, I think that by providing a

22 residential home on this property, which is a

23 residentially-sized property and is in

24 conformity with the balance of the properties

25 that surround it, I think appropriate population



Page 221 densities are established.

2 With regard to the negative impacts

3 --

4 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Can I just stop

5 you for a quick question?

6 THE WITNESS: Sure.

7 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: FEMA-wise, --

8 THE WITNESS: Yes.

9 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: -- the new house

10 will comply with FEMA from a flood purpose,

11 which, once again, is a benefit for the new home

12 coming into Atlantic City and a benefit to the

13 Atlantic City flood ratings.

14 THE WITNESS: That is correct. The

15 building will be required to be fully flood

16 compliant.

17 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: I jumped ahead.

18 I'm sorry.

19 THE WITNESS: With regard to the

20 negative criteria, we have to establish both

21 that the -- that the project does not impair the

22 -- substantially impair the intent and purpose

23 of the zone plan and zoning ordinance and that

24 it does not substantially impair the public

25 good.



Page 231 With regard to the zone plan and

2 zoning ordinance, as we know, it's a big

3 departure from the ordinance from what we are

4 requesting this morning. But, you have to go

5 back to the master plan and where the city -- or

6 where the CRDA -- the Tourism District and the

7 city are going with this area. It is -- it is

8 an area that wants to be residential, has been

9 residential and, fortunately, we are -- we have

10 people that are starting to show interest

11 because of what's going on in this Inlet

12 District area.

13 So, we don't -- we don't feel as

14 though there is an impairment to the intent or

15 purpose of the zone plan or zoning ordinance and

16 we think that this project advances the goals of

17 the CRDA master plan and the -- and the ULI

18 report that was prepared for the CRDA.

19 With regard to the negative impacts

20 to the public, well, there is no public in this

21 area right now. You know, most of the

22 properties are vacant. The ones that aren't

23 vacant, most of the buildings are empty and, at

24 some point --

25 UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE



Page 241 AUDIENCE: You know we have like ten people, ten

2 house in there.

3 LANCE LANDGRAF: Excuse me, sir.

4 There will be a public portion.


6 AUDIENCE: Thank you.

7 THE WITNESS: There are -- there

8 are still some structures down there that are --

9 that are up but are empty that are in need of

10 demolishing. And then there are some properties

11 around that are -- that are occupied and that

12 are well maintained.

13 So, we have a mix of things. We

14 have a --

15 But, what we have here is we have a

16 proposal that we are trying to construct a

17 building on this lot that does conform with the

18 existing maintained properties. It is similar

19 to those properties. And, obviously, it can't

20 have a negative impact to a vacant piece of

21 property if there's no use on those properties.

22 So, we don't see that there's a negative impact

23 or a substantial detriment to the public good as

24 a result of this application.

25 So, I think that both the positive,



Page 251 the special reasons and the negative criteria

2 and the Medici criteria are established for the

3 use variance.

4 Going on to the c. variances.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: If I could stop

6 you right there, Mr. Barnhart.


8 LANCE LANDGRAF: I have some

9 questions, actually, before we get into that.

10 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

11 LANCE LANDGRAF: And it goes,

12 really, to Christine and then Scott.

13 When you're getting a use variance,

14 --

15 CHRISTINE COFONE: Yes.

16 LANCE LANDGRAF: -- there really

17 are none in the bulk criteria for that use in

18 this zone.

19 CHRISTINE COFONE: I would agree

20 with that.

21 LANCE LANDGRAF: So, do they

22 actually need those variances, the c.-type

23 variances?

24 CHRISTINE COFONE: Under the

25 Price-Ameji case, which came out in 2000 -- I



Page 261 believe it was a summer of 2014 or '13 decision,

2 the court found that when you're getting a use

3 variance, the underlying bulk zoning is really

4 not appropriate to be applied because the use

5 wasn't contemplated by the standards that were

6 developed for that ordinance.

7 So, I think, in an abundance of

8 caution, to preserve your record, if you wanted

9 to add a couple minutes of testimony, you could,

10 but I think you could also very well argue that

11 you do not need those because you're here,

12 arguing for a use variance and, therefore, the

13 bulks are subsumed into your use variance.

14 LANCE LANDGRAF: That's how I've

15 handled it in the past.

16 THE WITNESS: Yeah. And I

17 wholeheartedly agree with that. And that's kind

18 of the -- really, the basis of our testimony,

19 although many land use boards still look at

20 those as technical variances. So, we still --

21 we still generally like to provide some level of

22 testimony in support of them.

23 LANCE LANDGRAF: That's fine. And

24 I think that's appropriate.

25 CHRISTINE COFONE: I don't



Page 271 disagree. I think, given the existing

2 undersized nature of the lot as well, you know,

3 you could look at the C1 hardship here. But, I

4 do think that, under Price-Ameji and the fact

5 that you're asking for a use variance, the bulk

6 criteria could be subsumed.

7 THE WITNESS: Thank you.

8 CHRISTINE COFONE: You're welcome.

9 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thanks for the

10 clarification.

11 You can proceed.

12 THE WITNESS: So, in -- kind of in

13 furtherance of that conversation, what we have

14 here is --

15 As we know, we're in the RS-C zone.

16 The zoning for this site would be a 30,000

17 square foot lot. It would require a lot width

18 of 150 feet and it would require front yards of

19 20, sides of 30, rears of 30. There's,

20 essentially, no lots, except for one or two,

21 that could even -- that could even come close to

22 complying with this.

23 And it goes to the idea that that's

24 -- that zoning that I just mentioned that is

25 itemized in Ms. Cofone's report, it doesn't



Page 281 apply to this type of project, because you

2 wouldn't have a 30,000 square foot lot in an

3 urban setting for one single family house.

4 So, the fact that we're here,

5 asking for a use variance and when you look at

6 the criteria, it's very clear that the -- that

7 the bulk criteria for the RS-C zone doesn't

8 apply, just doesn't make any practical sense for

9 the type of application that we have before us.

10 But, to the extent that they are

11 considered variances, I think we have a very

12 clear case of this being a hardship situation, a

13 C1 variance, for all of the bulk and area

14 standards that we don't meet.

15 And the reason I think I can say

16 that is, as Mr. Callaghan pointed out, there's

17 been contact with adjacent property owners,

18 availability of land on either side of us is not

19 there, and the reality of it is, we'd have to

20 buy more than half the block just to comply with

21 the lot area alone.

22 So, if you apply the standards,

23 this is an undevelopable lot. And that goes

24 back to the use variance that we are requesting.

25 So, I think that the use variance



Page 291 -- or all the bulk standards are clearly

2 warranted under the C1 criteria in Municipal

3 Land Use Law and, for that reason, I think that

4 they are justified.

5 Just one exhibit I didn't show you,

6 but you all have it in your package anyway.

7 This is just a color version of the application

8 plan that was submitted. It shows the lot. It

9 shows the proposed layout of the home. You see

10 you've got parking in the front, some front and

11 rear decks. And it is a three-story single

12 family structure that is proposed on the

13 property.

14 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: And, of course,

15 it's interesting to note it's a modular home,

16 and the name of the modular home is the

17 Brigantine.


19 AUDIENCE: I think you have a picture of it.

20 ROBERT REID: Close enough.

21 Yes, we do.

22 CHRISTINE COFONE: Do you have a

23 picture of it?

24 ROBERT REID: Yeah, we have a

25 picture.



Page 301 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Yes, we do.

2 CHRISTINE COFONE: Can we see it?


4 AUDIENCE: Absolutely.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: Will that be A-4?

6 SCOTT COLLINS: A-4.

7 LANCE LANDGRAF: And it does show,

8 looking at what we're going to call A-4, that

9 there is a garage as well as an off-street --

10 another off-street parking space.

11 THE WITNESS: That's correct.

12 There are -- there is a proposal of two

13 off-street parking spaces.


15 AUDIENCE: I'll work on it, if you want.

16 LANCE LANDGRAF: You're not sworn

17 in, so we have to --

18 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: We have the

19 availability to do that because of the depth of

20 the lot. So, we're able to have the garage and

21 we're able to have the off-street parking also.

22 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. Please

23 proceed.

24 THE WITNESS: That's pretty much

25 the extent of my testimony.



Page 311 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: I don't have any

2 other questions of Mr. Barnhart.

3 THE WITNESS: I will answer any

4 questions.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. With that,

6 Christine, I'll ask you to go through your

7 report, if you don't mind.

8 CHRISTINE COFONE: Yeah. Thank

9 you.

10 For the record, Christine

11 Nazzaro-Cofone. My office issued a report on

12 September 15th, 2015.

13 Mr. Barnhart has --

14 SCOTT COLLINS: We'll call that

15 B-1.

16 CHRISTINE COFONE: Okay.

17 Mr. Barnhart has done an excellent

18 job of addressing all of the points that we

19 raised in our review letter.

20 I just had a couple questions for

21 you.


23 CHRISTINE COFONE: I know you

24 talked about the particular suitability, but

25 would you say that the proximity of the subject



Page 321 property to the infrastructure improvements that

2 are occurring would also render the site

3 particularly suitable for the proposed

4 development?

5 THE WITNESS: Oh, absolutely. I

6 mean, the reconstruction of the sea wall

7 obviously provides -- provides flood and storm

8 damage protection. The construction of the

9 Boardwalk is -- it's -- in my opinion, it's

10 going to bring a -- hopefully, an onset of

11 residential in that area, because it doesn't get

12 better than living on the Atlantic City

13 Boardwalk and having direct access to the beach.

14 So, I think it really makes this

15 site particularly well suited as a result of

16 those improvements.

17 CHRISTINE COFONE: Sure. And while

18 not a permitted use in the RS-C zone, if you

19 have an opportunity to look at that stated

20 purpose of the RS-C zone, really, the tail end

21 of it talks about enhancing the family resort

22 residential character -- the family resort

23 character of the city. Would you feel that

24 introducing a single family home into what's

25 going to be -- or what's considered the



Page 331 Lighthouse District area would be consistent

2 with enhancing the family resort character of

3 the city?

4 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. One of

5 the issues with -- that Atlantic City is dealing

6 with right now is there aren't a lot of families

7 living here anymore.

8 CHRISTINE COFONE: Right.

9 THE WITNESS: And this, hopefully,

10 will continue -- will continue to bring that

11 back.

12 CHRISTINE COFONE: And that's

13 something that the CRDA could consider in the

14 negative criteria on the impact in the zone

15 plan, since that is one of the stated purposes

16 in the RS-C zone.

17 THE WITNESS: That's correct.

18 CHRISTINE COFONE: And when you did

19 the positive criteria, you relied on criteria A,

20 which is, essentially, promoting the general

21 welfare, and criteria E, which is population

22 densities. I don't disagree with either of

23 those.

24 But, do you think the CRDA could

25 also consider criteria G, which talks about



Page 341 providing sufficient space in appropriate

2 locations for a variety of uses, and also,

3 criteria I, creating a desirable visual

4 environment?

5 THE WITNESS: I do. I think that

6 both of those special reasons could be applied

7 to this application.

8 I think, you know, from the photo

9 that you were -- or the picture that you were

10 just shown with regard to the structure, it's a

11 very quaint-looking building. It's a very

12 seashory -- has a very seashory-looking front

13 with multiple levels of decks.

14 So, I think it does create a

15 desirable visual environment.

16 And the other one you just

17 referenced -- I'm sorry -- was?

18 CHRISTINE COFONE: It was criteria

19 G, --

20 THE WITNESS: G.

21 CHRISTINE COFONE: -- which talks

22 about providing sufficient space in appropriate

23 locations for a variety of uses.

24 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Again, I think

25 that this is a location -- that this is an



Page 351 appropriate location for this use.

2 I think, at some point, hopefully,

3 as this property -- this area continues to grow

4 residentially, you're going to see other uses

5 that want to -- that want to become part of this

6 community; some commercial uses on the avenues

7 and things.

8 So, you will have a mix of uses

9 within this area as the area continues to

10 redevelop.

11 CHRISTINE COFONE: Thank you for

12 your answers, Mr. Barnhart.

13 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Just as a

14 follow-up to that.

15 THE WITNESS: Yep.

16 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Jon, there are

17 other sections within Atlantic City that are

18 RS-C that are still heavily residential when

19 you're talking at Florida, Bellevue, Texas --

20 THE WITNESS: Correct.

21 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: -- that are now

22 non-conforming but that have the ability, with a

23 revision of this and taking a look at the new

24 urban report, that if they are rezoned, that

25 that could be also an impetus throughout the



Page 361 city to create residential people who will be

2 coming back into the city to live here?

3 THE WITNESS: Yes. That's correct.

4 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: I don't have any

5 other questions.

6 Once again, he'll --

7 CHRISTINE COFONE: I do not,

8 either. Thank you.

9 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thank you.

10 ROBERT REID: I wanted to interject

11 something here.

12 When he showed that aerial

13 photograph of 1965, it actually brought back

14 great memories. I lived three blocks from this

15 location in 1965, when this photograph was

16 taken. And I remember all those buildings and I

17 remember all my friends living in houses, row

18 homes and front porches.

19 And what you're proposing here is

20 consistent with the historic use of this

21 neighborhood. And I would love to see that

22 evolve back again. And this could certainly be

23 the encouragement for others.

24 So ...

25 CHRISTINE COFONE: The left side of



Page 371 the table would like it noted that there are no

2 1965 memories from this side of the table.

3 ROBERT REID: She's not that old.

4 CHRISTINE COFONE: Thank you.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. All right.

6 I would like to interject a couple of things.

7 And Christine is well aware of this and I

8 believe Scott is as well.

9 We have taken on the rebinding of

10 the Tourism District. We're not quite there

11 yet, but we have prepared a land use element and

12 a housing element that we've submitted,

13 preliminarily, in draft form, that we're working

14 through the process with the CRDA board that

15 does exactly what the ULI report had talked to

16 us -- that had suggested we do; create this

17 Lighthouse District that will create a mix of

18 uses; residential, commercial, and some in the

19 same structures in mixed use-type development.

20 But, certainly what we talked about was along

21 the coastline, along the Boardwalk and the inlet

22 was to have a residential mix there.

23 So, this does fit into both the --

24 what I would say -- some of our master plan.

25 Certainly, in our, hopefully, proposed land use



Page 381 regulations -- land use regulations for this

2 area and the new zoning.

3 So, I think it does fit into a lot

4 of what is -- what we foresee happening in the

5 southeast inlet.

6 After that -- with that, I will

7 open this meeting up to the public portion.

8 Sir, you voiced. If you wanted to

9 say something, please come forward and state

10 your name and provide your comments.

11 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: My name is

12 Tim Tran. My address is 118 Dewey Place, right

13 across with -- the property.

14 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. After

15 you're done, if we could ask you to sign in so

16 we have a record of who testified.

17 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE (TIM TRAN):

18 Sure. Yes, sir.

19 With the proposal, I a hundred

20 percent, you know, agree with it. But, my

21 concern is, on the Dewey Place, the street, your

22 investment, you have some kind of walls. I

23 living there for 15 year. And heavy tide, heavy

24 raining or some kind of water raising and the

25 water, you know, go up, you know, to the -- to



Page 391 the sideline. Do you have any kind like of

2 wall, you know, to stop the water from go

3 inside?

4 THE WITNESS: Well, currently on

5 Dewey Place, you have a -- you have a real issue

6 with that. It's one of the worst areas of the

7 community at this point. But, fortunately, once

8 the Army Corps of Engineers completes their

9 project, that should go a long way to dealing

10 with that issue for you. Hurricanes, things

11 like that, you know, there's still going to be

12 times when -- we are on a barrier island. There

13 are still going to be times when streets are

14 flooded and there's nothing any of us can do

15 about that. But, you are going --

16 Dewey Place and a lot of those

17 streets are flooded multiple times a month. I'm

18 very familiar with it.


20 That's correct.

21 THE WITNESS: It's not -- it's not

22 just once in a while; it's almost -- it's

23 consistent.

24 But, the Army Corps of Engineers

25 project will eliminate most of that. So ...



Page 401 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE (TIM TRAN):

2 So, that's something with the sea --

3 THE WITNESS: That has nothing to

4 do with us. And it actually has nothing to do

5 with the City of Atlantic City.

6 The Army Corps of Engineers has

7 designed, funded and is constructing a new sea

8 wall along that entire area, which will provide

9 dramatically better protection than you've had

10 for 75 years. It's --

11 You're going to see a tremendous

12 difference when that project is complete. And

13 it's under construction right now. I don't know

14 if you can see any of the construction vehicles

15 out there on the beach area.


17 Yeah. I saw those.

18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. They're

19 building the sea wall. And then it's going to

20 go right into the construction of a brand new

21 Boardwalk right -- going right by Dewey Place.


23 Okay.

24 LANCE LANDGRAF: We hope to have

25 new neighbors for you soon.



Page 411 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE (TIM TRAN)

2 Thank you.

3 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thank you for your

4 comments, sir.

5 Please sign in, if you wouldn't

6 mind.


8 Sure.

9 LANCE LANDGRAF: Anyone else from

10 the public wishing to speak?

11 Sir?

12 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: Hi. My

13 name is Eric Goldstein. I'm the managing

14 partner for Roth-Goldstein's Memorial Chapel, at

15 Pacific and New Hampshire Avenue.

16 We also own a lot at 121 Dewey

17 Place. It's probably the only different size

18 lot along the row. It's a 90 by 90, 8,100

19 square foot lot. Basically, if you drew a

20 rectangle from the Boardwalk to Dewey Place to

21 New Hampshire to Pacific, we're the only

22 existing structure within that space.

23 And we are absolutely thrilled to

24 see that a new residence is going to be built.

25 We'd like to see more of the same type of



Page 421 development. And we're just a hundred percent

2 in favor for it.

3 Thank you.

4 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thank you for your

5 comments.

6 Again, I would ask you to sign in

7 so we have --

8 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE (ERIC

9 GOLDSTEIN): Sure.

10 LANCE LANDGRAF: -- an accurate

11 listing of Mr. Callaghan's event.

12 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: I have one

13 comment.

14 LANCE LANDGRAF: Sir, please come

15 forward.

16 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: Yeah.

17 Paul Jackson. I'm the applicant.

18 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay.

19 MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE (PAUL

20 JACKSON): I want to indicate --

21 I didn't want to mislead relative

22 to when we got here, about the lot.

23 Mr. Callaghan, I said we moved here

24 in '69. We actually didn't procure the lot

25 until '71, '72. Not that it makes a difference.



Page 431 I just wanted to make it clear.

2 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: That's fine.


4 JACKSON): Other than that, that's it.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: Was the left side

6 of our dais around then?

7 CHRISTINE COFONE: Nope. Nope.

8 Getting close.


10 JACKSON): I just wanted to make -- make sure

11 that was clear.

12 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thanks for the

13 clarification.

14 It was still a sufficient

15 residential portion of the city in those years

16 as well.


18 JACKSON): Right.

19 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. Anyone else

20 from the public wishing to speak, please come

21 forward.

22 Seeing none, we'll close the public

23 portion and bring it back to the dais here.

24 Anybody else?

25 CHRISTINE COFONE: No other



Page 441 comments.

2 LANCE LANDGRAF: Rob, we're good?

3 ROBERT REID: No.

4 Yeah. We're good.

5 LANCE LANDGRAF: Okay. We will

6 prepare a hearing officer report on this

7 application.

8 And again, we should have

9 sufficient time to get on for our October

10 hearing, board hearing.

11 And we thank you for your

12 submission and your presentation this morning.

13 BRIAN CALLAGHAN: Thank you very

14 much.

15 LANCE LANDGRAF: Thank you.

16 We'll close the hearing on this

17 matter.

18 And the next hearing will be

19 October 1st, at 10 a.m.

20 Okay. And that's it.

21

22 (This public hearing concluded at

23 10:44 a.m.)

24

25



Page 45

Aability 35:22able 15:19 30:20,21about 16:14 31:24 32:21

33:25 34:22 37:20 39:1542:22

above 2:12above-referenced 2:1Absecon 18:8absolutely 19:15 30:4 32:5

33:4 41:23abundance 26:7access 7:20,24 8:5,12 32:13accomplish 17:25accurate 42:10Acknowledge 8:9across 38:13actions 15:19actually 10:14 13:15 14:21

21:20 25:9,22 36:13 40:442:24

adapt 19:19add 26:9address 38:12addressing 31:18adjacent 28:17advances 23:16advice 18:5aerial 36:12After 38:6,14again 12:23 18:18 20:11 22:11

34:24 36:6,22 42:6 44:8ago 6:10 17:13agree 8:6 25:19 26:17 38:20agreeable 8:6,13agreement 8:12ahead 22:17Air 6:3ALLOW 1:9almost 39:22alone 28:21along 10:20,20 37:20,21 40:8

41:18already 10:11 21:10,18although 26:19AND/OR 4:9another 30:10answer 31:3answers 35:12Anybody 43:24anymore 33:7Anyone 41:9 43:19anyway 29:6apartment 11:19 13:2,10APPEARANCES 2:17applicant 3:10 42:17application 1:13 5:4,5,14 7:18

8:15,20 11:8 18:12 20:12,24

24:24 28:9 29:7 34:7 44:7applied 26:4 34:6apply 28:1,8,22appropriate 11:25 16:8 17:16

21:4,25 26:4,24 34:1,2235:1

area 10:24 11:14,15,17 12:1012:15,17 13:12 15:12,2317:12,20 18:10,22 21:9,1221:20 23:7,8,12,21 28:13,2132:11 33:1 35:3,9,9 38:240:8,15

areas 11:3 16:4 39:6argue 26:10arguing 26:12Army 14:4 39:8,24 40:6around 11:1 15:4 24:11 43:6Art 7:22Arthur 12:3,13asked 7:16 18:5asking 7:1,4 9:5 11:24 27:5

28:5assignment 18:2Atlantic 1:12 2:3 6:2 7:16

10:9,12,20,21 11:14 12:913:17 14:10,19,25 16:22,2518:8,14 19:9 20:3 22:12,1332:12 33:5 35:17 40:5

atlas 11:13attached 21:8,13attorney 6:11 7:23AUDIENCE 24:1,6 29:19

30:4,15 38:11,17 39:19 40:140:16,22 41:1,7,12 42:8,1242:16,19 43:3,9,17

authentic 19:9,13Authority 1:1 2:2,18 18:4availability 28:18 30:19Avenue 2:3 6:2 11:6 14:7,8,9

14:16,18 41:15avenues 35:6aware 37:7A-1 4:10 8:20A-2 4:11 8:21,23A-3 4:12 10:6A-4 4:13 30:5,6,8a.m 2:13 5:1 44:19,23

BB 2:20back 7:13 15:15 17:14 21:11

23:5 28:24 33:11 36:2,13,2243:23

background 5:22balance 13:11 21:24bankrupt 6:14Barnhart 4:4 9:3,7,11,16 25:6

31:2,13,17 35:12

Barnhart's 9:18barrier 39:12Basically 41:19Basin 14:13 15:5basis 26:18beach 13:16 20:3 32:13 40:15beautiful 15:6become 35:5becomes 17:12before 2:4 13:25 20:13 25:9

28:9begins 19:18behalf 5:20behind 15:22being 2:13 15:19 28:12believe 20:21 21:1 26:1 37:8Bellevue 35:19benefit 22:11,12better 20:12 32:12 40:9beyond 17:2bid 14:19,20big 12:3 23:2bill 6:16,19bit 5:22 10:2block 1:11 5:21 6:13,21 7:8

8:11 10:18 28:20blocks 11:1 36:14board 3:1 37:14 44:10boards 26:19Boardwalk 10:13,20 11:15

13:3,17 14:6,12,15,17,1815:3 32:9,13 37:21 40:2141:20

Boeing 6:3both 22:20 24:25 34:6 37:23bottom 14:14bound 18:8brand 40:20Brian 3:12 5:17,18 8:16,22

9:2,17,22,25 22:4,7,9,1729:14 30:1,18 31:1 35:13,1635:21 36:4 43:2 44:13

Brigantine 29:17bring 32:10 33:10 43:23brought 36:13build 6:6 8:3building 8:1 13:2 19:8,14

22:15 24:17 34:11 40:19buildings 11:16,17,20 13:11

20:5 23:23 36:16built 41:24bulk 7:4 25:17 26:3 27:5 28:7

28:13 29:1bulks 26:13business 12:3,14busy 5:16buy 6:12 7:7,14,17 28:20B-1 31:15

Cc 21:17,18 25:4,22call 8:19,20 30:8 31:14Callaghan 3:12,12 4:5 5:16,17

5:18,18 8:16,22 9:2,17,229:25 10:10 22:4,7,9,1728:16 29:14 30:1,18 31:135:13,16,21 36:4 42:23 43:244:13

Callaghan's 5:12 42:11called 19:4came 6:11 25:25carefully 19:21case 25:25 28:12casino 1:1 2:1,18 13:9 16:1

18:4casinos 16:4Caspian 14:8,8,9caution 26:8CCR 2:5certainly 9:20 36:22 37:20,25Certificate 2:7certified 2:4,5,7,8,8,9,10,10Chairman 2:20change 6:25 13:22Chapel 41:14character 19:10 32:22,23 33:2children 6:1Christine 3:6 25:12,15,19,24

26:25 27:8 29:22 30:2 31:631:8,10,16,23 32:17 33:8,1233:18 34:18,21 35:11 36:736:25 37:4,7 43:7,25

city 1:12 2:3 6:15,17 7:16,1610:9,12,20,21,21 11:14 12:913:17 14:10,10,19,19,2516:22,25 19:9 20:3 22:12,1323:5,7 32:12,23 33:3,535:17 36:1,2 40:5,5 43:15

City's 18:14clarification 27:10 43:13clear 28:6,12 43:1,11clearly 20:18 29:1close 12:25 19:24 27:21 29:20

43:8,22 44:16CLR 2:11CM 2:8coast 15:9coastline 37:21Cofone 3:6,6 16:13 25:15,19

25:24 26:25 27:8 29:22 30:231:8,16,23 32:17 33:8,12,1834:18,21 35:11 36:7,25 37:443:7,25

Cofone's 16:14,18,20 27:25college 6:3Collins 3:3 8:19 9:13 10:7

30:6 31:14



Page 46

color 29:7come 13:25 17:14 27:21 38:9

42:14 43:20coming 22:12 36:2commencing 2:13comment 42:13comments 38:10 41:4 42:5

44:1commercial 35:6 37:18committed 20:8community 18:15 35:6 39:7company 12:4,14compelling 19:1complete 14:20 40:12completely 13:17 15:2completes 39:8compliant 22:16comply 22:10 28:20complying 27:22concern 38:21concluded 44:22conditioned 16:10conform 24:17conformity 21:24consider 10:5 33:13,25considered 28:11 32:25consistent 33:1 36:20 39:23consistently 11:6construct 24:16constructing 40:7construction 11:21,23 14:22

32:8 40:13,14,20Consulting 3:6contact 28:17contemplated 26:5contiguous 7:13continue 33:10,10continues 35:3,9contrary 21:15conversation 27:13copies 8:14Corps 14:4 39:8,24 40:6correct 22:14 30:11 33:17

35:20 36:3 39:20cottages 20:3COUNSEL 3:10couple 13:10,24 14:22 17:22

19:25 26:9 31:20 37:6course 29:14court 2:5 26:2coverages 7:10CRDA 12:21 15:19 16:17,23

17:18 20:16 23:6,17,1833:13,24 37:14

CRDA's 18:1create 14:11 19:7 20:9 34:14

36:1 37:16,17creating 19:9 34:3

criteria 22:20 25:1,2,17 27:628:6,7 29:2 33:14,19,19,2133:25 34:3,18

critical 19:19CRR 2:9CSR 2:10current 10:9currently 39:4C1 27:3 28:13 29:2

Dd 4:1 21:3dais 43:6,23damage 32:8Danzig 3:3date 2:12dated 8:7 12:7dealing 33:5 39:9decided 8:3decimated 13:18decision 26:1decks 29:11 34:13Delaware 2:9demolishing 24:10densities 21:5 22:1 33:22departure 21:19 23:3depth 10:23 30:19depths 11:3design 20:7designed 40:7desirable 12:15 34:3,15destination 17:1detached 21:13detriment 24:23develop 19:11developed 26:6development 1:1 2:2,18 15:12

17:4,5 18:4 19:2,19 32:437:19 42:1

Dewey 1:12 5:21 6:12 10:1111:5 13:13,14 38:12,21 39:539:16 40:21 41:16,20

difference 40:12 42:25different 11:2,20 16:5 41:17difficult 15:23difficulties 13:4direct 4:5 9:24 32:13direction 12:22disagree 27:1 33:22distinct 19:9district 5:8 16:22,23 19:4,5,6

19:18 23:6,12 33:1 37:10,17District's 20:7diverse 18:15DIVISION 1:4documents 12:20 17:18done 31:17 38:15door 7:23

down 6:9,15,18 12:12 14:7,1414:16 24:8

draft 37:13dramatically 40:9draw 20:6drew 41:19dropped 13:14duly 9:12duplexes 11:18duplex-type 21:14dwelling 1:10 5:7D-1-type 5:6

EE 4:1 33:21easement 7:24easements 7:20easier 10:16east 15:8effort 20:8eight 6:1either 21:12 28:18 33:22 36:8electronic 10:6element 37:11,12eliminate 39:25emphasize 20:10empty 23:23 24:9encouragement 36:23end 12:12 18:7 32:20Enforcement 1:4 2:23engineer 9:20Engineers 14:4 39:8,24 40:6enhancing 32:21 33:2enough 14:11 29:20entertaining 18:17entire 6:12 7:7 12:10 40:8environment 18:16 34:4,15Eric 41:13 42:8especially 14:25Esquire 3:3,12 9:13ESQUIRES 3:12essentially 13:12 27:20 33:20establish 21:2 22:20established 22:1 25:2establishment 21:4even 11:5 15:8 27:21,21event 42:11Every 11:17everybody 6:13 12:22 13:3

15:11evolve 36:22exactly 37:15Examination 4:5 9:24examined 9:13excellent 31:17except 19:25 27:20excerpts 17:23excited 13:22

Excuse 24:3exhibit 8:18 10:13 29:5exhibits 4:9 10:6exist 21:2existing 16:4 24:18 27:1 41:22exists 21:20experience 18:16explained 12:16extent 28:10 30:25

Ffabric 20:8faced 15:24fact 12:13 27:4 28:4fall 14:22familiar 39:18families 18:17 33:6family 1:9 5:7,25 6:5 7:3

12:17 15:14,15 17:10 18:2120:4 21:7,7,8,13,13 28:329:12 32:21,22,24 33:2

favor 42:2feel 23:13 32:23feet 7:6,21 10:23,23,24 27:18FEMA 22:10FEMA-wise 22:7few 10:12,19 14:21fiasco 6:11file 8:15files 12:5finalizes 20:2finally 6:19fine 8:22 26:23 43:2firm 5:18first 13:23,24fit 37:23 38:3flip 21:11flood 22:10,13,15 32:7flooded 39:14,17Florida 35:19follows 9:14follow-up 35:14foot 19:14 27:17 28:2 41:19Force 6:3foresee 38:4form 37:13forth 20:21fortunate 14:11fortunately 13:20 15:18 19:23

23:9 39:7forward 15:20 38:9 42:15

43:21found 26:2frames 15:1Franklin 11:13friends 36:17from 8:7 14:15 15:3 16:5

17:23 20:6 21:20 22:10 23:3



Page 47

23:3 34:8 36:14 37:2 39:241:9,20 43:20

front 7:8 27:18 29:10,1034:12 36:18

frontage 10:22fully 22:15funded 40:7further 18:23 19:17 21:1furtherance 27:13future 8:2 12:23

GG 3:3 33:25 34:19,20gain 8:5garage 30:9,20Gardner's 14:13 15:4gave 6:13general 20:23 33:20generally 26:21getting 6:4 20:25 25:13 26:2

43:8give 7:24 10:2 11:9given 27:1glimpse 13:8go 9:17 12:23 16:11,18 23:4

31:6 38:25 39:2,9 40:20goals 23:16goes 14:15 18:13,18,23 19:17

25:11 27:23 28:23Goggle 13:1going 6:7,13 10:8 11:5,9 13:21

14:21 15:2,5,17 17:22 19:1523:7,11 25:4 30:8 32:10,2535:4 39:11,13,15 40:11,1940:21 41:24

Goldstein 41:13 42:9good 5:17 22:25 24:23 44:2,4grant 8:12gray-shaded 11:15great 36:14grew 12:17Group 3:6grow 35:3guys 8:24 10:14

Hhalf 19:14 28:20Hampshire 11:5 41:15,21handled 26:15happened 6:24happening 38:4hardship 27:3 28:12having 9:12 32:13Haworth 2:4hear 5:9,13 17:7 21:19hearing 1:19 3:1 44:6,10,10

44:16,18,22heart 18:11,18,21

heavily 35:18heavy 38:23,23he'll 36:6Hi 41:12High 6:2high-end 12:11high-rise 13:10him 6:8 9:4 15:22historic 19:8 20:8 36:20history 11:10 17:13hits 17:24,24holder 2:7home 6:5 17:24 20:10 21:7,7,8

21:22 22:11 29:9,15,1632:24

homes 36:18hope 13:23 17:11 40:24hopeful 15:11hopefully 32:10 33:9 35:2

37:25house 6:6,9 15:14 17:10 18:20

22:9 24:2 28:3houses 20:3,4 36:17house-style 19:13housing 37:12hundred 13:24 17:13 38:19

42:1Hurricanes 39:10Hyland 3:3

Iidea 10:3 27:23impact 24:20,22 33:14impacts 22:2 23:19impair 22:21,22,24impairment 23:14impetus 35:25important 11:11improvements 32:1,16income 18:15,21indeed 16:9indicate 42:20indicates 8:8 16:21Indicating 8:25infrastructure 32:1inlet 8:8 10:21 12:8 15:4

17:20 18:6,10,22 19:5,1623:11 37:21 38:5

inlets 15:6,7inside 39:3inspiration 20:6Institute 17:19 18:3integrates 19:8intending 10:3,4intent 22:22 23:14intention 16:24interest 23:10interested 7:15,17

interesting 29:15interject 36:10 37:6interspersed 20:5introducing 32:24investment 38:22island 12:13 14:18 18:8 39:12issue 39:5,10issued 31:11issues 33:5itemized 27:25items 20:14

JJ 3:12Jackson 1:8 5:4,21,23,25

13:22 15:13,21 42:17,2043:4,10,18

Jackson's 12:16JACKSON/JOHN 1:8Jersey 2:3,4,12 9:21 15:8

16:23job 31:18John 5:4,20Jon 4:4 9:3,11,16 10:1 35:16JR 2:20July 8:7jumped 22:17jurisdiction 5:13just 8:23 10:12,24 12:5 13:8

16:19 17:9,22 21:11 22:427:24 28:8,20 29:5,7 31:2034:10,16 35:13 39:22 42:143:1,10

justified 29:4

KKaren 2:4key 11:21kind 11:10 13:19 16:2 19:5

26:17 27:12 38:22,24 39:1knocked 6:9,15,17,17know 8:16 13:7 16:5 18:25

21:17 23:2,21 24:1 27:2,1531:23 34:8 38:20,25,25 39:239:11 40:13

knows 13:3

LLANCE 2:20 5:3,15 8:14 9:1

9:6,19 24:3 25:5,8,11,16,2126:14,23 27:9 30:5,7,16,2231:5 36:9 37:5 38:14 40:2441:3,9 42:4,10,14,18 43:543:12,19 44:2,5,15

land 1:4 2:23 6:10,11 17:1918:3 26:19 28:18 29:3 37:1137:25 38:1

LANDGRAF 2:20 5:3,15

8:14 9:1,6,19 24:3 25:5,8,1125:16,21 26:14,23 27:9 30:530:7,16,22 31:5 36:9 37:538:14 40:24 41:3,9 42:4,1042:14,18 43:5,12,19 44:2,544:15

last 5:4law 5:18 29:3layout 29:9leading 17:1left 13:1,7 36:25 43:5letter 8:7,10 31:19letters 7:12Let's 8:19level 26:21levels 34:13license 8:13licenses 7:25Lighthouse 19:4,6,18 20:7

33:1 37:17like 9:4 12:3 13:16 16:14 24:1

26:21 37:1,6 39:1,11 41:25listing 42:11literally 14:5little 5:22 7:21 10:2 17:17

18:23 21:1live 12:12,16 17:6,7 36:2lived 12:14 36:14LiveNoteTM 2:11living 32:12 33:7 36:17 38:23LLC 8:9located 16:22 18:7location 16:8 17:16 34:25

35:1 36:15locations 34:2,23long 39:9longer 6:8look 7:5 12:19 26:19 27:3 28:5

32:19 35:23looked 6:23looking 30:8looks 13:15lot 1:11 5:21 10:18,24 11:2,3

11:7 13:4 15:18 16:15 17:1019:14 24:17 27:2,17,17 28:228:21,23 29:8 30:20 33:638:3 39:16 41:16,18,1942:22,24

lots 10:12 11:2,3 21:12,1427:20

love 36:21loved 12:12low 20:5

Mmaintain 8:1maintained 24:12,18maintaining 6:5



Page 48

maintenance 13:5majority 20:1make 15:19 28:8 43:1,10,10makes 32:14 42:25managing 41:13many 11:3,3 26:19map 10:9 13:1 21:10mark 8:17,23MARKED 4:9Massachusetts 6:2master 12:19 16:16,24,25

20:14 23:5,17 37:24matter 2:1 44:17maybe 6:24mean 7:6 32:6Medici 25:2meet 28:14meeting 38:7MEMBER 23:25 24:5 29:18

30:3,14 38:11,17 39:19 40:140:16,22 41:1,7,12 42:8,1242:16,19 43:3,9,17

members 18:15Memorial 41:14memories 36:14 37:2mentioned 21:6 27:24Merit 2:7middle 18:15,20mid-rise 20:5Mike 6:10,11mind 31:7 41:6minute 11:9minutes 26:9mislead 42:21Miss 16:13,14,18,20mix 11:20 24:13 35:8 37:17,22mixed 37:19MLUL 20:22modern 19:8modestly-sized 18:20modular 29:15,16month 39:17months 14:23more 17:17 19:12 28:20 41:25morning 5:16,17 11:7,24

15:25 17:25 18:19 20:1323:4 44:12

most 15:6,6 23:21,23 39:25move 15:20moved 42:23much 30:24 44:14multiple 34:13 39:17Municipal 29:2

NN 4:1name 29:16 38:10,11 41:13nationally 2:5,7,8,10

nature 27:2Nazzaro-Cofone 31:11near 17:1need 7:5 9:17 17:5 24:9 25:22

26:11needed 8:1,3negative 22:2,20 23:19 24:20

24:22 25:1 33:14neighborhood 18:6,7 19:7

20:9 36:21neighbors 40:25new 2:3,4,12 6:6 9:21 11:5

15:7 16:23 22:9,11 35:2338:2 40:7,20,25 41:15,21,24

next 7:23 14:22 44:18NJ 1:12nobody 15:21none 25:17 43:22non-conforming 35:22Nope 43:7,7north 18:7northeast 17:2Notary 2:11note 29:15noted 5:1 37:1nothing 39:14 40:3,4nothing's 6:24notice 5:9number 1:13 5:5 6:9 10:18

20:22

Oobviously 24:19 32:7occupied 24:11occurring 32:2ocean 18:9,16oceanfront 19:16October 44:9,19off 6:18 10:12,19 18:1offers 19:6office 5:13 31:11officer 2:23 44:6off-street 30:9,10,13,21Oh 32:5Okay 5:15 9:2,6,22 10:5,8

12:24 30:22 31:5,16 37:538:14 40:23 42:18 43:1944:5,20

old 37:3once 10:19 12:18 19:12 21:8

22:11 36:6 39:7,22one 5:6,10 11:17 13:23 15:5,6

16:13 17:21 27:20 28:3 29:533:4,15 34:16 39:6 42:12

ones 23:22only 41:17,21onset 32:10onto 11:5

open 38:7opinion 12:21 20:16 32:9opportunities 19:7opportunity 32:19opposed 19:4order 15:1 17:3ordinance 21:16,19 22:23

23:2,3,15 26:6Oriental 14:7,16originally 7:12other 8:10 11:4 12:20 21:2

31:2 34:16 35:4,17 36:543:4,25

others 36:23out 6:20 10:11 13:1 14:5,19

14:21 16:3 19:22 25:2528:16 40:15

over 7:21 10:24 13:4,7overall 16:24own 41:16owned 5:24 15:15owner 12:13owners 7:13,23 28:17ownership 20:10owns 8:10

PPacific 41:15,21package 29:6PAGE 4:3paid 6:16panel 18:5parking 29:10 30:10,13,21part 6:10 7:18 11:7 12:3 18:13

35:5particular 31:24particularly 20:18,20 32:3,15partner 41:14past 26:15Paul 1:8 5:4,20,25 42:17,19

43:3,9,17Pennsylvania 2:3people 12:12 13:24 17:6 23:10

24:1 36:1percent 38:20 42:1permits 21:16permitted 6:8 7:3 32:18Perretti 3:3photo 12:2 34:8photograph 12:7 36:13,15picture 29:19,23,25 34:9piece 14:15,17 15:3 24:20pin 13:14Place 1:12 5:21 6:12 10:11

11:5 13:13,14 38:12,21 39:539:16 40:21 41:17,20

plan 12:20 16:17,24,25 20:1522:23 23:1,5,15,17 29:8

33:15 37:24planner 9:20plans 8:11play 17:7,8please 30:22 38:9 41:5 42:14

43:20point 10:16 14:8 17:24 21:16

23:24 35:2 39:7pointed 10:11 28:16points 31:18Ponzio 12:4,13population 21:5,25 33:21porches 36:18portion 21:3 24:4 38:7 43:15

43:23position 8:12 13:21positive 21:3 24:25 33:19practical 28:8preliminarily 37:13prepare 44:6prepared 20:15 23:18 37:11preponderance 10:25present 2:13 6:22presentation 44:12presented 13:4preserve 26:8pretty 19:1,23 30:24Price-Ameji 25:25 27:4probably 41:17proceed 27:11 30:23process 6:7 7:18 9:5 37:14procure 42:24Professional 2:6PROFESSIONALS 3:1project 11:11 14:10 22:21

23:16 28:1 39:9,25 40:12projects 15:20promote 20:16promoting 20:23 33:20proof 5:12proper 5:9properties 8:9,10 10:19 19:25

21:24 23:22 24:10,18,19,21property 5:24 6:15 8:4,5

10:10,22 15:15 16:21 21:2221:23 24:21 28:17 29:1332:1 35:3 38:13

proposal 24:16 30:12 38:19propose 19:11 20:19proposed 20:19 29:9,12 32:3

37:25proposing 18:19,20 36:19protection 32:8 40:9proven 16:3provide 18:5 26:21 38:10 40:8provided 5:12provides 32:7,7providing 21:21 34:1,22



Page 49

proximity 31:25public 1:19 2:11 22:24 23:20

23:20 24:4,23 38:7 41:1043:20,22 44:22

purpose 22:10,22 23:15 32:20purposes 20:17 33:15Pursuant 16:23put 8:24 17:19 20:21putting 14:19

Qquaint-looking 34:11qualifications 9:18qualified 9:20question 22:5questions 25:9 31:2,4,20 36:5quick 22:5quickly 13:21 16:20 21:11quite 37:10

Rraining 38:24raised 31:19raising 38:24ratings 22:13read 16:20 17:22 18:25reading 17:17ready 6:4real 39:5reality 19:20 28:19really 7:6,7 13:23 15:8 17:23

25:12,16 26:3,18 32:14,20Realtime 2:8rear 7:9 29:11rears 27:19reason 20:21 28:15 29:3reasons 21:2 25:1 34:6rebinding 37:9rebranding 19:5rebuild 19:21receipt 8:9recent 16:2recommendations 18:24 19:2reconstruct 14:5reconstructed 14:17 15:2reconstruction 14:20 32:6record 26:8 31:10 38:16rectangle 41:20redevelop 35:10redevelopment 20:9referenced 34:17REFERRED 4:9regard 13:5 16:15,16 17:18

20:22 22:2,19 23:1,19 34:10regarding 18:6Registered 2:6REGULATION 1:4regulations 38:1,1

Reid 2:23 5:11 7:19 29:20,2436:10 37:3 44:3

Reinvestment 1:1 2:2,18 18:4reinvigorate 16:25relative 42:21relatively 12:25 14:25 15:1relied 33:19remaining 13:6remember 36:16,17remove 19:20removed 13:18removing 19:24render 32:2repeat 17:14report 16:14,19,21 23:18

27:25 31:7,11 35:24 37:1544:6

Reporter 2:5,6,9,10,11represent 8:8request 18:3 20:15requesting 23:4 28:24require 8:4 27:17,18required 22:15residence 41:24residential 11:18,21,22 12:11

12:11 17:5,13,15 21:22 23:823:9 32:11,22 35:18 36:137:18,22 43:15

residentially 21:14 35:4residentially-sized 21:23resort 17:1 32:21,22 33:2result 15:18 24:24 32:15retire 6:4return 18:14Revel 13:9 14:16 15:3review 31:19reviewed 5:11reviewing 16:16revision 35:23revocable 7:25 8:13rezoned 35:24Rhode 14:18right 5:3 10:11 12:14 13:2,14

13:15 18:1,11,21 23:21 25:633:6,8 37:5 38:12 40:13,2040:21,21 43:18

Riker 3:3Rob 5:9 44:2ROBERT 2:23 5:11 29:20,24

36:10 37:3 44:3Rodman 7:13roots 18:14Roth-Goldstein's 41:14row 19:13 20:3 36:17 41:18RPR 2:6RS-C 5:8 7:3 15:25 27:15 28:7

32:18,20 33:16 35:18running 6:20

Ssame 37:19 41:25saw 15:14 40:17saying 20:2says 19:6scale 20:7scenic 15:7Scherer 3:3Scott 3:3 8:19 9:12 10:7 25:12

30:6 31:14 37:8SE 8:8sea 14:6,12 15:2 32:6 40:2,7

40:19seashory 34:12seashory-looking 34:12section 10:21 12:8sections 35:17secure 7:19see 7:14,19 10:25 11:14,16

12:1,8,17,21,23 13:8,12,1313:15 24:22 29:9 30:2 35:436:21 40:11,14 41:24,25

Seeing 43:22SEEKING 1:9sell 7:14sense 28:8September 1:17 31:12service 5:12set 11:1 21:12,14setbacks 7:9,9,9setting 28:3short 15:1Shorthand 2:9shot 11:13show 16:7 23:10 29:5 30:7showed 21:10 36:12showing 11:12shown 34:10shows 29:8,9shut 6:18side 7:9,20 11:4,4 28:18 36:25

37:2 43:5sideline 39:1sides 27:19sidewall 13:8sign 38:15 41:5 42:6similar 11:2 13:25 24:18since 5:25 6:22 33:15single 1:9 5:7 6:5 7:3 15:13

17:10 20:4 21:6,7,8,12,1328:3 29:11 32:24

singles 11:19sir 24:3 38:8,18 41:4,11 42:14sit 13:19site 10:2 11:10 20:17 27:16

32:2,15situation 28:12size 41:17

sized 11:6Sklar 7:22 8:7small 17:10some 12:4,4,20 13:6,9 17:18

21:1 23:24 24:8,10 25:826:21 29:10 35:2,6 37:18,2438:22,24

something 7:8 8:3 13:2533:13 36:11 38:9 40:2

soon 40:25sorry 22:18 34:17south 2:2 17:20 18:6,10,21

19:5southeast 38:5space 30:10 34:1,22 41:22spaces 30:13speak 41:10 43:20special 20:21 21:2 25:1 34:6spur 15:12square 7:6 10:24 27:17 28:2

41:19stable 20:9stand 14:3standards 26:5 28:14,22 29:1start 10:9 17:11starting 14:21 23:10starts 14:6state 2:12 9:21 15:7 38:9stated 32:19 33:15stay 19:21,24steppingstone 17:11still 24:8 26:19,20,21 35:18

39:11,13 43:14stop 22:4 25:5 39:2stories 16:6storm 13:18 32:7strategic 18:5 19:22strategies 19:3street 6:20 11:4 38:21streets 39:13,17structure 29:12 34:10 41:22structures 13:6 24:8 37:19struggling 16:5study 17:20 20:15subject 16:21 31:25submission 8:20 44:12submit 8:17submitted 7:11,12 29:8 37:12substantial 24:23substantially 22:22,24subsumed 26:13 27:6sufficient 34:1,22 43:14 44:9suggested 7:19 37:16suitability 31:24suitable 32:3suited 20:18,20 32:15summarizes 16:19summary 17:20



Page 50

summer 26:1support 26:22supporting 12:20sure 22:6 25:7 31:22 32:17

38:18 41:8 42:9 43:10surround 21:25surrounding 20:6swear 9:7sworn 9:4,12 30:16

Ttable 37:1,2tail 32:20taken 2:1 36:16 37:9takes 14:7,12taking 35:23talked 7:22 31:24 37:15,20talking 16:16 35:19talks 32:21 33:25 34:21tax 10:9 21:10technical 26:20technically 7:2telling 6:16ten 24:1,1term 17:1testified 9:14 38:16testimony 26:9,18,22 30:25Texas 35:19thank 9:1 24:6 27:7 31:8

35:11 36:8,9 37:4 41:2,342:3,4 44:11,13,15

Thanks 27:9 43:12their 8:5 14:17 18:17 20:6

39:8themselves 18:17thing 17:8things 12:5 13:5 16:13 24:13

35:7 37:6 39:10think 11:10,23 13:21 15:7

16:2 17:15,23 19:3 21:21,2523:16 24:25 26:7,10,24 27:127:4 28:11,15,25 29:3,1932:14 33:24 34:5,8,14,2435:2 38:3

thinking 6:4Thompson 3:12,12 5:19,19though 23:14thought 6:23 19:21three 36:14three-quarters 7:7three-story 29:11thrilled 41:23thriving 12:10through 6:1,7 9:5,18 10:2

31:6 37:14throughout 35:25Thursday 1:17tide 38:23

ties 11:23Tim 38:12,17 39:19 40:1,16

40:22 41:1,7time 5:1 6:14,25 11:18 12:9

12:10 14:25 17:8 44:9times 39:12,13,17today 7:1 12:25,25 13:19 14:3together 17:19told 6:7top 10:13total 10:24Tourism 16:22,23 23:6 37:10toward 14:7,8,14Tran 38:12,17 39:19 40:1,16

40:22 41:1,7tremendous 19:15 40:11trend 17:12trying 6:12 17:25 24:16two 7:21,21 11:10 27:20 30:12type 11:2 25:22 28:1,9 41:25types 11:21

UULI 18:5 20:15 23:17 37:15unbelievable 12:6uncertain 8:11under 18:23 19:2 25:24 27:4

29:2 40:13underlying 26:3undersized 27:2undevelopable 28:23UNIDENTIFIED 23:25 24:5

29:18 30:3,14until 42:25urban 17:19 18:2 28:3 35:24use 1:4,9 2:23 5:6 7:2 8:4 16:8

16:9 17:16 20:19 24:21 25:325:13,17 26:2,4,12,13,1927:5 28:5,24,25 29:3 32:1835:1 36:20 37:11,25 38:1

uses 34:2,23 35:4,6,8 37:18use-type 37:19

Vvacant 13:12 20:1 23:22,23

24:20variance 1:9 5:7 7:2 16:9,10

21:3 25:3,13 26:3,12,1327:5 28:5,13,24,25

variances 7:4 21:17,18 25:425:22,23 26:20 28:11

variety 34:2,23vehicles 40:14vernacular 20:4version 29:7very 11:1,6,24,24 12:15,15

26:10 28:6,11 34:11,11,1239:18 44:13

views 19:15vision 16:24 18:14visual 34:3,15voiced 38:8

Wwalk 9:4 10:1wall 14:6,12 15:3 32:6 39:2

40:8,19walls 38:22want 10:14 13:25 17:6,6 18:16

30:15 35:5,5 42:20,21wanted 7:14,17 26:8 36:10

38:8 43:1,10wants 12:22 17:14,14 23:8warranted 29:2wasn't 15:17,20 26:5water 6:16,18,19,19 38:24,25

39:2way 14:13,16 15:4 19:22 39:9website 18:1weeks 14:21welcome 27:8welfare 20:23 33:21well 5:10 6:23 16:11 17:3

19:23 20:18,20 23:20 24:1226:10 27:2 30:9 32:15 37:737:8 39:4 43:16

went 6:1were 11:16,18,18,19,19,22

15:10 26:5 34:9,9we'll 8:20 31:14 43:22 44:16we're 7:1,2,4 9:5 10:3,3 11:24

13:20,22 15:24,25 17:9,2418:19,19 19:23 21:6,1127:15 28:4 30:8,20,21 37:1037:13 41:21 42:1 44:2,4

we've 13:1,6 37:12while 17:9 18:16 19:8 32:17

39:22wholeheartedly 26:17wide 19:14width 27:17willing 7:24,25wishing 41:10 43:20WITNESS 10:8 22:6,8,14,19

24:7 25:7,10 26:16 27:7,1230:11,24 31:3,22 32:5 33:433:9,17 34:5,20,24 35:15,2036:3 39:4,21 40:3,18

WITNESS(ES) 4:3work 14:11 16:3,15 17:6,7

19:18 30:15worked 6:3working 12:3 14:5 37:13works 10:7worst 39:6wouldn't 15:21 28:2 41:5

Wound 6:13written 20:12

XX 4:1

Yyard 7:8,9yards 7:20 27:18Yeah 25:10 26:16 29:24 31:8

34:24 40:17,18 42:16 44:4year 38:23years 6:4,10,24 13:4 15:16

16:2 17:13 40:10 43:15Yep 35:15youngest 5:25

Zzone 7:3,5 15:25 22:23 23:1

23:15 25:18 27:15 28:732:18,20 33:14,16

zoning 16:1 20:17 22:23 23:223:15 26:3 27:16,24 38:2

$$10,000 6:13$5,000 6:17

11 20:221st 44:191,770 10:2410 44:1910:09 2:13 5:110:44 44:23117 1:12 5:21 13:14118 38:12121 41:1613 26:115 2:2 38:2315th 31:12150 27:1817 1:1719 19:1419.67 10:231938 11:13 12:11965 12:8 36:13,15 37:21969 5:25 6:22

220 27:192000 25:252014 7:13 26:12015 1:17 8:8 31:122015-09-1666 1:13 5:527 8:7

3



Page 51

30 6:3 27:19,1930,000 7:5 27:16 28:2

55,000 6:1950 6:24

669 42:24

771 42:2572 42:2575 40:1079 1:11 5:21 10:18

88 1:11 5:21 10:188,100 41:18

99 4:590 10:23 41:18,18

Documents

C S R ASSOCIATES (609) 641-7117 Email: … · 9/17/2015 · 20 LANCE B. LANDGRAF, JR. Chairman ... 4 last application is for Paul and John Jackson. 5 It's Application number 2015-09-1666