)doc.pdf · AlaFile E-Notice To: JOHN M. BOLTON III [email protected] 46-CV-2013-900031.00 Judge: WILLIAM A. SHASHY NOTICE OF ELECTRONIC FILING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MACON

AlaFile E-Notice

To: JOHN M. BOLTON III

[email protected]

46-CV-2013-900031.00

Judge: WILLIAM A. SHASHY

NOTICE OF ELECTRONIC FILING

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MACON COUNTY, ALABAMA

The following matter was FILED on 8/26/2014 3:49:16 PM

STATE OF ALABAMA V. $223,405.86 ET AL

46-CV-2013-900031.00

KC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, INC. MOTION TO EXCLUDE STATE'S EXPERT, WILLIAM HOLMES

Notice Date: 8/26/2014 3:49:16 PM

[Filer: BOLTON JOHN MERRILL III]

DAVID LOVE, JR.

CIRCUIT COURT CLERK

MACON COUNTY, ALABAMA

TUSKEGEE, AL 36083

334-724-2614

[email protected]

101 EAST NORTHSIDE STREET

I001 KC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, LLC

/s/ JOHN M. BOLTON III

Signature of Attorney or Party:Date:Check here if you have filed or are filingcontemoraneously with this motion an Affidavit ofSubstantial Hardship or if you are filing on behalf of anagency or department of the State, county, or municipalgovernment. (Pursuant to §6-5-1 Code of Alabama(1975), governmental entities are exempt fromprepayment of filing fees)

Case No.STATE OF ALABAMAUnified Judicial System

46-MACON District Court Circuit Court

Revised 3/5/08

STATE OF ALABAMA V. $223,405.86 ET ALCIVIL MOTION COVER SHEET

Name of Filing Party:

Name, Address, and Telephone No. of Attorney or Party. If Not Represented.

Attorney Bar No.:

JOHN M. BOLTON III

425 South Perry Street

MONTGOMERY, AL 36104

BOL012

TYPE OF MOTION

Motions Requiring Fee Motions Not Requiring Fee

Default Judgment ($50.00)

Joinder in Other Party's Dispositive Motion (i.e.Summary Judgment, Judgment on the Pleadings, orother Dispositive Motion not pursuant to Rule 12(b))($50.00)

Summary Judgment pursuant to Rule 56($50.00)

Renewed Dispositive Motion(Summary Judgment,Judgment on the Pleadings, or other DispositiveMotion not pursuant to Rule 12(b)) ($50.00)

Judgment on the Pleadings ($50.00)

Motion to Dismiss, or in the Alternative SummaryJudgment($50.00)

Other

Add Party

Amend

Change of Venue/Transfer

Compel

Consolidation

Continue

Deposition

Designate a Mediator

Judgment as a Matter of Law (during Trial)

Disburse Funds

Extension of Time

In Limine

Joinder

More Definite Statement

Motion to Dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)

New Trial

Objection of Exemptions Claimed

Plaintiff's Motion to Dismiss

Preliminary Injunction

Protective Order

Quash

Release from Stay of Execution

Sanctions

Sever

Special Practice in Alabama

Stay

Strike

Supplement to Pending Motion

Vacate or Modify

Withdraw

Other KC Economic Development, Inc. Motionto Exclude State's Expert, WilliamHolmes

pursuant to Rule Rule 702 (Subject to Filing Fee)

pursuant to Rule ($50.00)

*This Cover Sheet must be completed and submitted to the Clerk of Court upon the filing of any motion. Each motion should contain a separate Cover Sheet.

**Motions titled 'Motion to Dismiss' that are not pursuant to Rule 12(b) and are in fact Motions for Summary Judgments are subject to filing fee.

*Motion fees are enumerated in §12-19-71(a). Feespursuant to Local Act are not included. Please contact theClerk of the Court regarding applicable local fees.

Local Court Costs $

I001 - KC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, LLC

8/26/2014 3:46:17 PM

CV201390003100

Pendente Lite

Oral Arguments Requested

Motion to Intervene ($297.00)

ELECTRONICALLY FILED8/26/2014 3:49 PM

46-CV-2013-900031.00CIRCUIT COURT OF

MACON COUNTY, ALABAMADAVID LOVE, JR., CLERK

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE FIFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT

MACON COUNTY, ALABAMA

STATE OF ALABAMA, Petitioner, -vs- $223,405.86 U.S. CURRENCY & 1,615 ELECTRONIC GAMBLING DEVICES AND

RELATED PROPERTY IDENTIFIED IN EXHIBIT

A, et al, Defendants.

: : : : : : : : : : : : : :

Case No. CV-2013-900031

______________________________________________________________________________

KC ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, INC. MOTION TO EXCLUDE

STATE’S EXPERT, WILLIAM HOLMES

______________________________________________________________________________

COMES NOW KC Economic Development, Inc. (“KCED”) Respondent in the above-

styled matter, and moves to disqualify William Holmes as an expert witness in this matter and

moves to preclude the State from introducing any opinion testimony by Holmes at any trial in this

case pursuant to Rule 702 of the Alabama Rules of Evidence and Daubert v. Merrell Dow

Pharmaceuticals, Inc., 509 U.S. 579 (1993). In support of its Motion, KCED would show unto

this Court the following:

I. BACKGROUND

On February 19-20, 2013, the Attorney General’s Office seized 1,615 electronic bingo

games and related equipment and $223,405.86 in currency1. On February 25, 2013, the Attorney

1 Nearly seven months after the execution of the search warrant and seizure of the currency, the Attorney General’s

Office took the seized currency to a bank to have it counted. The official bank count on September 4, 2013

determined that the State had actually seized $263,405.86.

ELECTRONICALLY FILED8/26/2014 3:49 PM

46-CV-2013-900031.00CIRCUIT COURT OF

MACON COUNTY, ALABAMADAVID LOVE, JR., CLERK

2

General filed a Petition for Forfeiture for the seized devices and currency alleging that the seized

games are unlawful gambling devices and slot machines and alleging that the currency was used

as bets or stakes in an illegal gambling operation. On November 18, 2013, the State filed an

Amended Forfeiture Petition increasing the amount of currency seized from $223,405.86 to

$263,405.86.

In order to determine whether the seized games and currency are due to be forfeited, two

principle issues at trial will be whether Amendment 744 authorizes electronic bingo games and, if

so, whether the seized machines play the game of bingo. In order to answer the second question,

an expert witness will need to explain how the games are connected and what is happening “inside

the machines.” Scientific or technical evidence will be necessary to analyze and explain how the

machines operate and whether and how the games play the game of bingo in an electronic medium.

The State has identified William Holmes as its expert witness. Mr. Holmes is not qualified

by either education, training, skill, or experience to examine the machines at issue here or to opine

as to whether they are slot machines or lawful electronic bingo machines. Instead of offering

scientific or technical testimony, Mr. Holmes’s testimony consists of a string of legal conclusions,

speculation, and assumed facts which Mr. Holmes failed to independently verify, all of which

render his opinions unreliable, will not assist the trier of fact, and fail to satisfy any of the standards

of Rule 702 and Daubert.

II. THE STATE’S PURPORTED EXPERT

William Holmes was born in 1933. [Holmes Macon 10:15-162]. Mr. Holmes graduated

with a Bachelor’s degree in economics from North Park College (Chicago) in 1967. [Holmes

2 Mr. Holmes gave a deposition in the instant case on August 7, 2014 which will hereinafter be referred to as “Holmes

Macon.” Mr. Holmes gave a deposition in a case styled State v. 825 Electronic Gambling Devices pending in Greene

County Circuit Court and bearing civil action number CV-2010-20 which will hereinafter be referred to as “Holmes

3

Macon 15:6-21]. He obtained a Master’s degree in forensic science from George Washington

University in 1979. [Id.]. Mr. Holmes began working for the Federal Bureau of Investigation

(“FBI”) in 1968 and retired in October 1988. [Holmes Macon 10:17-11:13]. During his tenure

with the FBI, Mr. Holmes worked first as a field agent handling organized crime in gambling cases

and then in the FBI gambling unit laboratory. [Holmes Macon 11:14-23]. While he was employed

in the gambling unit laboratory, Mr. Holmes examined evidence submitted by state and federal

authorities, wrote reports, and testified in court about his findings. [Holmes Greene 12:16-23]. The

kinds of evidence he “examined” was related to bookmaking operations, sportsbetting, prostitution

records, loan sharking, and numbers. [Holmes Greene 14:11-19]. From 1978 until he retired in

1988, Mr. Holmes “examined” video gambling machines by playing them repeatedly and making

notes about his observations. [Holmes Greene 14:21-15:10]. When Mr. Holmes was examining

video gambling devices between 1978 to retirement, he relied upon the play and operational

characteristics of a device to determine whether a device was a slot machine. [Holmes Macon

12:18-23; Holmes Greene 15:11-14].

After Mr. Holmes retired in 1988, he began the consulting firm Bill Holmes & Associates.

Mr. Holmes’s consulting “firm” has no employees other than Mr. Holmes and it is based in the

basement in his house. [Holmes Greene 10:19-23; 22:13-17]:

Q. Okay. Now, I understand your consulting business is located in your home.

Do you have a separate room where your consulting business is based?

A. Yes. It's a basement.

Q. Okay. In the basement?

A. Yes.

Greene.” Mr. Holmes’s deposition in the Greene County case is attached as Exhibit 37 to his deposition in this case.

Both depositions are attached hereto as Exhibit A (Holmes Macon) and Exhibit B (Holmes Greene).

4

Q. And what do you have in the basement where the consulting business is

located?

A. Desk, credenza, computer, printer, copy machine, fax machine, and a chair.

Q. Have a telephone?

A. Yes, and a telephone.

[Holmes Macon 13:10-14:1]. Mr. Holmes’s consulting “firm” is not a laboratory, has no

equipment, and does not have the capability of testing any machines or devices. [Holmes Greene

22:18-23:3]. Bill Holmes & Associates is not recognized or certified as a testing lab by any federal,

state, or local authorities. [Holmes Greene 23:4-22; 25:2-4]. Mr. Holmes has never tested a slot

machine, never tested an electronic bingo game, and has never certified a slot machine or electronic

bingo game. [Holmes Macon 24:2-12; Holmes Greene 24:11-25:1].

Mr. Holmes is not an engineer, not an expert in computer programming, not a software

engineer, never designed a computer, never examined computer software or testified about it,

never tested any computer software, never tested any source code, never testified about source

code, never designed a gaming device, and never designed or tested an electronic bingo game.

[Holmes Macon 22:1- 24:15; Holmes Greene 43:17- 45:4]. Mr. Holmes has never testified that a

particular game is the game of bingo or not the game of bingo. [Holmes Macon 24:2-12; Holmes

Greene 45:5-9]. Since leaving the FBI, Mr. Holmes has lectured on the topic of carnival frauds,

altered playing cards, and altered dice. [Holmes Greene 54:18-55:12]. Mr. Holmes’s experience

with bingo is limited to three occasions that he can recall: one visit to a Native American casino

in Texas before he retired from the FBI more than 25 years ago, one visit to a bingo hall in a state

he could not recall in a year he could not recall, and a case in Florida involving a paper bingo

game. [Holmes Greene 59:21- 60:19]. Prior to June of this year when he was hired by the Attorney

5

General’s Office, Mr. Holmes’ primary area of work was performing background investigations

for security clearances for the FBI. [Holmes Macon 26:1-27:2].

Mr. Holmes believes that he has testified as an expert in approximately 279 cases. [Holmes

Macon 19:20-23]. However, he believes he has testified in only five cases since 2003. [Holmes

Greene 41:13-22]. Mr. Holmes has testified in only one case involving a gambling device since

retiring in 1988 and it was not a bingo device. [Holmes Greene 32:2-20]. When questioned further,

Mr. Holmes could not recall whether he has testified as an expert witness in any case since 1999.

[Holmes Macon 20:1-4; Holmes Greene 43:3-8]. The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, which first

approved of electronic bingo gaming devices and signaled the advent of electronic bingo games,

was enacted in October 1987. Thus, all of Mr. Holmes’s experience pre-dates electronic bingo.

Indeed, none of the cases in which Mr. Holmes has testified involved electronic bingo devices.

[Holmes Greene 43:13-16].

III. MR. HOLMES’S “LOOK” AT THE SEIZED GAMES

Mr. Holmes arrived for the first time in Alabama around 10:30 am the day before the

deposition. Mr. Holmes first visited the seized games on the day before the deposition around

10:00 am. He was escorted to the warehouse where the games and equipment are being stored,

left at approximately noon, returned at 2:00 pm and then concluded his visit at 4:15 pm. [Holmes

Macon 151:14- 152:4] Mr. Holmes would not even use the word “examination” to describe what

he did. Including driving time, the total amount of time Mr. Holmes spent conducting his self-

described non-examination was approximately four hours during which time he looked at the thirty

machines and viewed two videos made by undercover agents. [Holmes Macon 41:14-16; 43:1-8;

48:8-13].

6

Mr. Holmes testified in deposition that he did not examine the seized games. He was

adamant that he had not performed an examination or any testing of the games:

Q. Okay. Now, you told me just a moment ago that you did an inspection of

some of the devices in this case yesterday?

A. I looked at them.

Q. You looked at them?

A. Not an inspection.

[Holmes Macon 39:15- 20].

Mr. Holmes never analyzed any software or source code from any computers or equipment

seized in this matter. [Holmes Macon 79:21-80:5]. Mr. Holmes never examined any of the servers

or computers seized in this matter. [Holmes Macon 46:18-23]. Mr. Holmes never played any of

the seized machines. Indeed, Mr. Holmes did not even try to plug in any of the machines. Even

though Mr. Holmes testified that he relied upon the play and operational characteristics of a

machine when he examined devices for the FBI in the late 1970s and 1980s, he admitted that none

of the machines he “looked at” here were operational. [Holmes Macon 47:10-14]. Mr. Holmes

does not rely upon any expertise or specialized training, knowledge, or background or scientific

studies or methodologies. He does not even rely upon his past practice of examination when he

was employed by the FBI. Any layperson could perform the same observations and reach the same

conclusions without having any specialized training, skill, knowledge, or expertise:

Q. But what I'm asking you, though, is: You can walk up to one of these devices

and see whether or not they have reels just by looking at it, can't you?

A. Usually, that's correct.

Q. Okay. And I could do it just as well as you could do it, correct?

A. Yes.

7

Q. And the Judge could do it just as well as you could do it, could he not?

A. Probably.

Q. Any layperson could walk up to one of these machines and see whether or

not they had reels on them just by looking at it?

A. Yes, that's true.

[Holmes Macon 140:1-15].

IV. MR. HOLMES’S PROFERRED OPINIONS

Mr. Holmes was asked in deposition what opinions he would be offering as an expert

witness in this case. He responded:

Q. Well, your experience with slot machines have been with spinning reel-type

devices, correct?

A. And others. But in my opinion, that's what these are, slot machines.

Q. I understand you say that. And that's because -- and I think you told me last

time was because you have never seen a Bingo machine that has spinning

reels, correct?

A. That's correct.

[Holmes Macon 75:3-14]. Mr. Holmes bases his opinion that the machines at issue are slot

machines solely on the fact that he observed a video of machines that had reels on them.3 That one

observation is the sole basis for his conclusion that the games are slot machines. Mr. Holmes does

not base his opinion on any examination, testing, analysis, or play of the seized machines:

Q. Okay. Now, you told me just a moment ago that you did an inspection of

some of the devices in this case yesterday?

A. I looked at them.

3 Mr. Holmes did not observe any physical reels on the machines he “looked at.” All of the reels he observed were

on the video screen of the machines depicted in the two DVDs he watched.

8

Q. You looked at them?

A. Not an inspection.

[Holmes Macon 39:15- 20].

Q. Okay. Did you plug in and operate any of the devices you looked at

yesterday?

A. They were inoperable.

Q. Did you plug them in or attempt to operate them?

A. No, I did not.


Q. Okay. Did you examine any servers?

A. No.

Q. Did you try to connect these devices to servers and operate them?

A. No.

Q. Did you examine any other -- strike that. Did you look at any other

components besides the player stations that you testified to earlier?

MR. REAGAN: Object to form. I believe you used the word "player station."

A. No.

Q. So would it be fair to say none of the devices that you looked at yesterday

were functioning and operational at the time you looked at them?

A. That's correct.

[Holmes Macon 46:18- 47:14].

Q. Okay. Now, what did you do yesterday when you looked at these

approximately 30 devices that you looked at?

A. Made a comparison of one machine to another to see if they were identical

or not.

9

Q. Okay. Anything else?

A. Also, what characteristics they had, operational characteristics.

Q. Okay. But you didn't operate them?

A. No.

Q. Okay. And you didn't play them?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So the only characteristics you looked at was what they looked like

in a nonoperational, nonfunctional state, correct?

A. That's correct.

[Holmes Macon 54:6- 55:2].

Q. Okay. But you haven't examined a program or tested the computer program

in this case, have you?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay. And you haven't examined or tested the software or the source code

in the servers?

A. That's correct.

Q. You didn't even look at the servers?

A. That's right.

Q. Okay. Is there someone else that's to perform a forensic examination of the

servers or the software, to your knowledge?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Have you examined any source code at all for either the games you

looked at yesterday or the servers?

A. No.

[Holmes Macon 61:21- 62:17].

10

V. ARGUMENT AND AUTHORITIES

Under Alabama law, an expert may testify as a scientific or as a non-scientific expert. Rule

702 of the Alabama Rules of Evidence applies to all expert testimony as a precondition to

admissibility regardless of whether the expert’s testimony is based upon scientific, technical, or

other specialized knowledge. Under Rule 702, a testifying witness must (1) be qualified as an

expert and (2) provide testimony that will assist the trier of fact. Although non-scientific expert

testimony must only satisfy the two-prong test for Rule 702, scientific evidence must satisfy the

requirements of Rule 702 and the additional admissibility hurdles found in Daubert. It is unclear

if the State seeks to have this Court recognize Mr. Holmes as a non-scientific or scientific expert.

However, regardless of the category of experts in which the State presents Mr. Holmes, he cannot

meet the threshold requirements in Rule 702 or the additional hurdles for scientific testimony in

Daubert.

A. THE STATE’S PURPORTED EXPERT FAILS TO SATISFY RULE 702

The admissibility of expert testimony in Alabama is governed by Rule 702 of the Alabama

Rules of Evidence, which states as follows:

If scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact

to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as

an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training or education may testify

thereto in the form of an opinion or otherwise.

Rule 702, Ala. R. Evid. The central tenets of Rule 702 are that the proffered testimony is offered

by a qualified witness and such testimony will assist, aid or help the trier of fact. See Ala.R.Evid.

702 (Advisory Committee’s Notes stating that the phrase “assist the trier of fact” is the threshold

for expert testimony).

A witness must first be qualified as an expert before he can give an opinion as an expert.

http://www.westlaw.com/Link/Document/FullText?findType=L&pubNum=1006346&cite=ALRREVR702&originatingDoc=Id487551a26d511dbb0d3b726c66cf290&refType=LQ&originationContext=document&vr=3.0&rs=cblt1.0&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=(sc.Search)



11

Townsend v. General Motors Corp., 642 So. 2d 411, 423 (Ala. 1994), To qualify as an expert, the

witness must have such knowledge, skill, experience, or training that his opinion will be considered

in reason as giving the trier of fact light upon the question to be determined. See generally C.

Gamble, McElroy’s Alabama Evidence, § 127.01(5)(b) (4th ed. 1991); see also, Courtaulds Fibers,

Inc. v. Long, 779 So.2d 198 (2000). A proffered expert must have expertise in the specific matter

on which he proposes to testify, must offer a scientifically reliable opinion, must testify about a

matter relevant to the issues in the litigation, and his testimony must be helpful to the trier of fact.

Failure to satisfy any one of these requirements renders an expert opinion inadmissible. See Bagley

v. Mazda Motor Corp., 864 So. 2d 301, 311-13 (Ala. 2003). An expert witness generally should

not be allowed to give testimony outside of his field of expertise. See United States v. Marabelles,

724 F.2d 1374, 1381 (9th Cir. 1984). Accordingly, a witness’s testimony cannot be based upon

speculation and conjecture. Townsend, 642 So. 2d at 423 (citing Alabama Power Company v.

Robinson, 477 So. 2d 148, 153-154 (Ala. 1993)).

Here, Mr. Holmes is not “qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training

or education.” While Mr. Holmes is a former FBI agent and has limited experience with video

gambling devices, his experience is too stale to be helpful to this Court. Mr. Holmes’s experience

is 25 years in the past and was limited to video gambling devices that are not related or even similar

to the devices at issue here. Mr. Holmes readily admitted that his experience with bingo was

limited to one instance in Florida where he observed a paper bingo game. He has no experience

with electronic bingo games or commercial paper bingo games. His lack of experience with either

of these is telling when he testified that he did not know what a common ball draw was [Holmes

Macon 69:22- 70:2], he did not know what it means to sleep a bingo [Holmes Macon 68:8-14],

and the only bingo patterns with which he was familiar are the kinds used in elementary school

http://www.westlaw.com/Link/Document/FullText?findType=Y&serNum=1994102807&pubNum=735&fi=co_pp_sp_735_423&originationContext=document&vr=3.0&rs=cblt1.0&transitionType=DocumentItem&contextData=(sc.Search)#co_pp_sp_735_423








12

bingo games and not the more sophisticated commercial bingo games. He lacks a fundamental

understanding of elements of a paper bingo game that the Supreme Court opined are important to

test whether an electronic bingo game is functionally equivalent to a paper bingo game.

Mr. Holmes’s testimony is particularly unhelpful here. When asked during his deposition

in Greene County, he was clueless as to the elements of bingo generally:

Q. Do you understand what sleeping a bingo is?

A. Yes, I don’t.

Q. Yes, you don’t?

A. I don’t understand what sleeping a bingo is.

[Holmes Greene 91:11-16].

Q. Does a bingo game have to have multiple player[s]?

A. Doesn’t have to, but it’s usually the case.

Q. So you can play bingo with one player?

A. If the bingo parlor allows it, yeah.

Q. What about state law?

A. I don’t think the state law says you have to have more than one. I don’t

think so.

Q. Do you know what Alabama law provides on that?

A. Not verbally, no.

Q. Do winning bingo patterns have to be established prior to the beginning of

the bingo game?

A. I don’t quite understand what you mean by patterns unless you mean

diagonals, verticals, and horizontals.

Q. Are there other bingo patterns other than diagonal, vertical, and horizontal

in your opinion?

13

A. Well, I don’t know what you mean by pattern. To me that’s what the pattern

is.

[Holmes Greene 160:17- 161:22].

Q. In a bingo game, is there a common ball draw?

A. A common ball draw?

Q. Yes, sir.

A. I don’t understand?

Q. Do you know what a common ball draw is?

A. No.

[Holmes Greene 166:16-23]. Mr. Holmes confirmed in his deposition in this case that he still did

not know what these terms meant. [Holmes Macon 68:8-14; 69:22- 70:2].

When asked specifically about Macon County, Mr. Holmes admitted that he has not even

read Amendment 744 which authorizes bingo in Macon County:

Q. And if I understand your earlier testimony, you've never seen Amendment

744 before right now when I handed it to you; is that correct?

A. Yes.


Mr. Holmes has no knowledge about electronic bingo games or paper bingo games. Mr.

Holmes has no skill with respect to the examination, testing, or play of electronic bingo games or

commercial bingo games. He has no skill, experience, training or education with regards to testing,

examination, or analysis of software or hardware used in slot machines or electronic bingo games

which would assist the Court in determining whether the games at issue are playing the game of

bingo or are slot machines. Mr. Holmes’s proposed testimony is outside his area of expertise and

is based upon an insufficient factual basis. Lingefelt v. International Paper Co., 57 So.3d 118

(Ala. Civ. App. 2010).

14

The Attorney General has employed two “expert” witnesses in numerous bingo cases:

Robert Sertell and Desmond Ladner. Mr. Sertell was the State’s original expert witness who

passed away recently. Mr. Sertell testified under oath several times that bingo can be played

electronically so long as the local bingo amendment allows bingo. For his part, Mr. Ladner

testified that in order to determine whether an electronic bingo game is a slot machine or electronic

bingo machine, a forensic examination of the software is necessary, an examination not performed

by the Attorney General or his purported expert in the present matter.

Even though Mr. Sertell did not provide a deposition in this case, his prior testimony is

significant because it is directly contrary to the testimony offered by the State’s present expert

witness, Mr. Holmes. Mr. Sertell testified before four different courts in Alabama under oath that

electronic bingo is legal where bingo is permitted by constitutional amendment:

Cornerstone v. Riley, CV-09-900019, Lowndes County, Transcript of Proceedings March

25-26, 2009, at 354:10-12:

Q. You agree that bingo can be played in an electronic format, do you not?

A. I do, yes, sir.

State v. American Gaming Systems, CV-08-1837, Jefferson County, Deposition January

16, 2009, at 151:22-152:2:

Q. And I think I asked you if those electronic bingo devices could be operated legally

in Alabama and you testified that they could.

A. Provided bingo was legal in whatever jurisdiction was, yes.

City of Asheville v. American Legion, CV-08-382, St. Clair County, Hearing March 17,

2009, 70:14-16:

Q. You would agree that bingo can be played in an electronic format?

A. Yes, sir. I just testified to that.

State v. American Gaming Systems, CV-08-1837, Jefferson County, Trial Transcript June

9, 2009, at 203:15- 204:1:

15

Q. And there are differences are they’re not, between slot machines and the game of

bingo, the game commonly known as bingo?

A. Yes.

Q. Let me clarify one thing right. You can play bingo electronically, can’t you?

A. Yes.

Q. You can pay it on electronic devices, can’t you?

A. Yes.

(Copies of the testimony are attached hereto as Exhibits C, D, E, and F).

Another of the State’s previous expert witnesses, Desmond Ladner, the former director of

the lab for the Mississippi Gaming Commission, testified in a prior proceeding that he would be

unable to determine whether a device actually played the game of bingo until he could “run the

forensics of the machines and conduct some analysis.” [Transcript of hearing dated July 7, 2011,

attached hereto as Exhibit G at 199:9-11]. Ladner also testified under oath that with respect to

determining whether a particular gaming device was a slot would not be able to verify that until

we'd been able to have the machines -- extract the data from the machines and conduct an analysis.”

[Exhibit G at 200:5-9]. Mr. Holmes did not perform any such forensic analysis or data extraction

and is not qualified to do so. Mr. Holmes testified that he did not know whether bingo could be

played electronically and he was not familiar with electronic bingo games. Thus, his testimony is

directly contrary to other experts and the State’s counsel and is not helpful or reliable.

Because Mr. Holmes was not familiar with the standards by which he was supposed to be

examining the games, is not familiar with commercial bingo, has no knowledge or experience with

electronic bingo games, and he failed to perform any examination or analysis of the seized

machines, his testimony demonstrates that he is not qualified and that such testimony will not assist

16

the trier of fact. Therefore, Mr. Holmes’s testimony is due to be excluded.

B. THE STATE’S PURPORTED EXPERT FAILS TO MEET THE DAUBERT

STANDARD.

The Alabama Supreme Court specifically adopted Daubert for all cases filed after January

1, 2012. Because this case was filed in February 2013, Daubert applies here. Under the Daubert

test, which has been recently adopted by the Alabama Legislature and the Supreme Court4, expert

testimony will be excluded unless it is “scientifically reliable.” Daubert v. Merrell Dow

Pharmaceuticals, Inc., 509 U.S. 579, 113 S.Ct. 2786, 124 L.Ed.2d 469 (1993). In Daubert, the

United States Supreme Court held that under Rule 702 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, which

was the same as the prior version of Rule 702 of the Alabama Rules of Evidence when the Court

rendered its decision, a trial judge must act as a gatekeeper to ensure that all scientific testimony

or evidence admitted is not only relevant, but reliable. 509 U.S. at 589. Although the Daubert

decision only referred to “scientific” knowledge, its holding was later extended to include

“technical, or other specialized knowledge” in the Supreme Court’s decision in Kumho Tire. 526

U.S. at 141.

In Ex parte State of Alabama, 746 So.2d 355 (Ala. 1998), a case involving the admissibility

of DNA evidence, the Supreme Court of Alabama discussed Daubert’s application to the reliability

prong of Rule 702. The Court stated:

In assessing reliability, trial courts should look to several guiding factors, including:

(1) whether the ‘theory or technique ... has been ... tested;’ (2) whether the ‘theory

or technique has been subjected to peer review and publication;’ (3) whether the

technique’s ‘known or potential rate of error ... and ... standards controlling the

technique’s operation’ are acceptable; and (4) whether the theory or technique has

gained ‘general acceptance’ in the relevant scientific community.

4 The Alabama Legislature amended Ala. Code § 12-21-160 in 2011 to adopt a Daubert-based admissibility standard.

The Alabama Supreme Court amended Rule 702(b) for all cases filed after January 1, 2012.

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Ex parte State of Alabama, 746 So.2d 355, 359 (Ala. 1998) (quoting Daubert at 593-94). While

the Alabama Legislature adopted the Daubert standard beginning with cases after January 1, 2012,

the Alabama Supreme Court previously considered its application to expert testimony in civil

cases. See General Motors Corp. v. Jernigan, 2003 WL 22929111 (Ala. 2003) (applying both Frye

and Daubert to the facts but declining to adopt Daubert as the standard because doing so would

not affect the admissibility of an engineering expert’s testimony); Slay v. Keller Industries, Inc.,

823 So.2d 623 (Ala. 2001).

Application of Daubert would render the testimony of the State’s purported expert

inadmissible. The reliability prong of the Daubert test asks “whether the reasoning or methodology

underlying the testimony is scientifically valid.” Id. at 592-93. The Daubert Court set forth four

nonexclusive guidelines that a trial court should consider in determining whether the proffered

expert testimony qualifies as sufficiently “reliable” under Rule 702: (1) whether the proffered

conclusion lends itself to verification by the scientific method through testing, and whether the

technique or conclusion has in fact been tested; (2) whether the opinion has been subjected to peer

review and publication; (3) the known or potential rate of error, and the existence of standards

controlling the operation of the technique applied; and (4) whether the theory or technique is

generally accepted in the relevant community. Id. at 593-94; Cummins v. Lyle Indus., 93 F.3d 362,

368 (7th Cir. 1996). Daubert’s relevance requirement asks “whether that reasoning or

methodology properly can be applied to the facts in issue.” Daubert, 509 U.S. at 592-93. In other

words, to be “relevant,” the testimony must be helpful to the trier of fact by “fitting” the issues in

the particular litigation. Id. at 591. Expert testimony that does not relate to any issue in the case “is

not relevant and, ergo, non-helpful.” Id. at 591. In addition, the expert’s knowledge in the field

must be based on “more than subjective belief or unsupported speculation.” Daubert, 509 U.S. at





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18

590. See also McClain v. Metabolife Intern, Inc., 401 F.3d 1233, 1245 (11th Cir. 2005)

(“‘Subjective speculation that masquerades as scientific knowledge’ does not provide good

grounds for the admissibility of expert opinions.”) (quoting Glastetter v. Novartis Pharm. Corp.,

252 F.3d 986, 989 (8th Cir. 2001)).

In Kumho, the Supreme Court clarified its decision in Daubert and held that “this basic

gatekeeping obligation” applies to all expert testimony. Kumho, 526 U.S. at 147. Under Daubert,

as under Frye the party proffering the expert testimony has the burden of demonstrating that the

expert’s opinions are admissible. See, e.g., Allison v. McGhan Medical Corp., 184 F.3d 1300, 1306

(11th Cir. 1999) (“The burden of laying the proper foundation for the admission of the expert

testimony is on the party offering the expert, and admissibility must be shown by a preponderance

of the evidence.”); Moore v. Ashland Chemical Inc., 151 F.3d 269 (5th Cir. 1998).

The Alabama Supreme Court addressed an expert’s failure to test a product in Slay v. Keller

Indus., Inc., 823 So. 2d 623 (Ala. 2001). In Slay, an expert mechanical engineer was offered to

support plaintiff’s claims of improper design, manufacture and distribution and failure to include

adequate instructions on an aluminum ladder from which the plaintiff fell. Slay, 823 So. 2d at 624.

Defendant manufacturer filed a motion in limine to preclude the introduction of the expert, and the

trial court granted summary judgment for the defendant manufacturer and distributor. Id. Since the

trial court did not state whether it considered the expert’s testimony in granting the motion, the

Alabama Supreme Court analyzed the expert’s testimony and opinions. Slay, 823 So. 2d at 625. It

noted that:

[the expert] admitted in his deposition that he had performed no tests on the

ladder or on any exemplar ladders, that he had not measured the gauge of

aluminum used to make the ladder, that he had not reconstructed the accident

to determine the sequence of events and the causes of those events, and that he

had not determined that the ladder was in any way defective in its design,

manufacture, or distribution, or that Keller failed to provide adequate warnings.









19

His bald assertion in testimony that the ladder was “possibly underdesigned,”

even if asserted by a mechanical engineer generally qualified to speak expertly on

such matters, does not have the proper generally accepted scientific support

necessary to create a material issue of fact and is not sufficient to carry the

nonmovants’ burden on a motion for a summary judgment.

Slay, 823 at 626 (emphasis added). The court stated that “[m]ere assertions of belief, without any

supporting research, testing, or experiments, cannot qualify as proper expert scientific testimony

under either the ‘general-acceptance’ standard enunciated in Frye or the ‘scientifically reliable’

standard of Daubert” and affirmed the trial court. Id. The court noted that the trial court was

without error if it did not consider the expert testimony in ruling on the motion for summary

judgment. Id. See ArvinMeritor, Inc. v. Johnson, 2008 WL 2780312 (Ala. Civ. App. 2008) (“a

person who offers an opinion as a scientific expert must prove that he relied on scientific principles,

methods, or procedures that have gained general acceptance in the field in which the expert is

testifying”) (quoting Slay). It is clear from an analysis of Daubert and Slay that Mr. Holmes’s

proffered testimony and opinions are inadmissible.

1. QUALIFICATIONS -- Holmes’s Experience Does Not Qualify Him as

an Expert on the Matters About Which He Offers His Opinion

Mr. Holmes testified in his deposition that he does not have any experience examining,

testing, or evaluating electronic bingo games. Mr. Holmes is not an engineer, not a computer

programmer, not a software engineer, and he does not employ anyone, much less anyone with any

such degrees or experience. [Holmes Greene 43:17- 45:4]. Mr. Holmes has never designed any

computer software. [Id.; Holmes Macon 22:22-23:1].

Where, as here, “the witness is relying solely or primarily on experience, then the witness

must explain how that experience leads to the conclusion reached, why that experience is a

sufficient basis for the opinion, and how that experience is reliably applied to the facts.” Frazier,


20

387 F.3d at 1261 (quoting the advisory committee note to the 2000 amendments of Rule 702). See

also Mintel Int’l. Group, Ltd. v. Neergheen, 636 F. Supp.2d 677, 685 (N.D. Ill. 2009) (expert that

opined “it was more likely than not” that the defendant initiated a “defrag” computer program must

be “able to explain why he reached that conclusion on the basis of a reasoned application of

scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge, and not simply as a result of guesswork or a

desire to please the side that hired him.”).

Mr. Holmes conceded that all of his conclusions are based entirely upon his visual

observations of several machines. [Holmes Macon 39:15-40:3]. In other words, Mr. Holmes

“knows it when he sees it.” The bulk of Mr. Holmes’s experience relates to sports betting and

book-making. Mr. Holmes’s experience with electronic machines is limited to cherry-masters and

eight-liner slot machines from nearly 25 years ago. Even though Mr. Holmes was employed with

the FBI and has testified as an expert witness in previous cases involving sports betting and book-

making and the occasional slot machine, Mr. Holmes did not offer any testimony or evidence about

how his alleged experience led to the conclusion he reached in this particular case, why that

experience is a sufficient basis for the opinion he offered in this particular case, or how that

experience is reliably applied to the facts here.

An expert may only testify in those fields in which he is qualified. See, e.g., United States

v. Paul, 175 F.3d 906, 912 (11th Cir. 1999) (holding that an expert’s qualifications in one field

does not make him any more qualified to testify as an expert in another field than a lay person who

reads the same articles). In fact many courts “have excluded expert testimony when they determine

that the witness is testifying to an area outside of – but related to – his expertise.” Trilink Saw

Chain, LLC v. Blount, Inc., 583 F. Supp.2d 1293, 1304-1305 (N.D. Ga. 2008) (mechanical

engineer was qualified to testify about product testing procedures but was not qualified to testify

21

about how the average customer would interpret language used in a company’s advertisements or

interpret consumer research data; engineer was neither a consumer survey expert or a market

research expert).

Mr. Holmes’s testimony clearly falls outside his purported areas of expertise. Mr. Holmes

does not hold himself out as an expert in computer programming, computer software, gaming

software, forensic computer analysis, sweepstakes, or lotteries—all of the matters which are at

issue in this case. Because Mr. Holmes has no expertise in computer programming, computer

software, gaming software, forensic computer analysis, bingo or lotteries, Mr. Holmes is not

qualified to offer expert opinions in those areas. Thus, Mr. Holmes’s experience does not qualify

him as an expert on the matters about which he offers his opinion and he is due to be disqualified.

2. RELIABILITY – Mr. Holmes’s Opinion Evidence is not Grounded in

Methodology and Lacks Reliability

The reliability prong of Daubert requires a preliminary assessment of “whether the

reasoning or methodology underlying the testimony is scientifically valid and of whether that

reasoning or methodology properly can be applied to the facts in issue.” Daubert, 509 U.S. at 592-

593. In Daubert, the Supreme Court listed five nonexclusive factors that a trial court may consider

in assessing reliability of scientific expert testimony: (1) whether the opinion at issue is susceptible

to testing and has been subjected to testing; (2) whether the opinion has been subjected to peer

review and publication; (3) whether there is a known or potential rate of error of the methodology

used; (4) whether there are standards controlling the technique’s operation; and (5) whether the

theory has been accepted in the scientific community. 509 U.S. at 593-94. In Kuhmo Tire Co. v.

Carmichael, 526 U.S. 137, 150 (1999), the Supreme Court held that these factors “might also be

applicable in assessing the reliability of non-scientific testimony.” In addressing admissibility of

22

expert testimony, a federal court of appeals noted the dictionary definition of “methodology” as a

“body of methods, rules, and postulates employed by a discipline: a particular procedure [or] set

of procedures” and concluded the expert had no tests or other data and had used “little, if any

methodology beyond his own intuition.” Oddi v. Ford Motor Co., 234 F.3d 136, 156 n. 20, 158

(3d Cir. 2000), cert. denied, 532 U.S. 921 (2001).

Mr. Holmes admitted that the “methodology” he used in this case was limited to “looking

at” thirty machines, making notes on nine machines, and watching two videos. Mr. Holmes’s

purported methodology fails to meet any of the five Daubert factors for reliability of scientific

expert testimony. Mr. Holmes’s methodology is not susceptible to testing and has not been

subjected to testing. There are no standards controlling Mr. Holmes’s technique because it is based

solely on his personal observations and his own opinions regarding the interpretation of Alabama

law.

The expert’s opinion must have “a reliable basis in the knowledge and experience of his

discipline.” Daubert, 509 U.S. at 592. The Supreme Court has made clear that “nothing in either

Daubert or the Federal Rules of Evidence requires a district court to admit opinion evidence that

is connected to existing data only by the ipse dixit of the expert.” General Elec. Co. v. Joiner, 522

U.S. 136, 146 (1997). See also McDowell v. Brown, 392 F.3d 1283, 1300 (11th Cir. 2004) (“[A]n

expert opinion is inadmissible when the only connection between the conclusion and the existing

data is the expert’s own assertions.”) (citation omitted).

An expert’s “I know it when I see it” approach to rendering an opinion is wholly lacking

in methodology and is insufficient to render that opinion reliable and, therefore, admissible. See,

e.g., United States v. Chu, No. 3:11-cr-286(S3)-J-34TEM (M.D. Fla. Nov. 7, 2012) (unpublished

23

op.)5 at p. 22, 25 (finding expert’s method unreliable where Daubert testimony relied on premise

that “the method was just common sense” and the method “more closely resemble[d] an ‘I know

it when I see it’ test than a scientific analysis that is appropriately reliable to submit to a jury for

consideration”); See also Mintel Int’l. Group, Ltd. v. Neergheen, 636 F. Supp.2d 677, 684 (N.D.

Ill. 2009) (recognizing that where expert testimony is based on “experience in the field” the expert

may be “more apt to opine that ‘I know it when I see it’” and stating “[t]hat type of testimony alone

is not satisfactory, for a court may not simply take an expert’s word for a proposition”). Mr.

Holmes’s did not employ any “method” because he admitted that his opinion was based solely

upon the fact that the he saw reels on the two videos and that was the end of his inquiry.

3. HELPFULNESS – Holmes’s Testimony does not Assist the Trier of

Fact

For expert testimony to be admissible, it must also assist the trier of fact to understand the

evidence or determine a fact in issue. Daubert, 509 U.S. at 590. In other words, “expert testimony

is admissible if it concerns matters that are beyond the understanding of the average lay person.”

Frazier, 387 F.3d at 1233. Expert testimony “is properly excluded when it is not needed to clarify

facts and issues of common understanding which jurors are able to comprehend for themselves.”

Hibiscus Assocs. Ltd. v. Board of Trs. Of Policemen & Firemen Ret. Sys., 50 F.3d 908, 917 (11th

Cir. 1995) (citations omitted). Mr. Holmes’s testimony does not assist the Court to understand the

evidence or determine a fact in issue. Indeed, Mr. Holmes testified that a lay person could do

exactly what he did in this case, look at the machines and draw conclusions:

Q. But what I'm asking you, though, is: You can walk up to one of these devices

and see whether or not they have reels just by looking at it, can't you?

A. Usually, that's correct.

Q. Okay. And I could do it just as well as you could do it, correct?

5The Chu opinion is attached as Exhibit H and provided for its persuasive value.

24

A. Yes.

Q. And the Judge could do it just as well as you could do it, could he not?

A. Probably.

Q. Any layperson could walk up to one of these machines and see whether or

not they had reels on them just by looking at it?

A. Yes, that's true.

[Holmes Macon 140:1-15]

The central issue here is whether the seized machines play the game of bingo or whether

they are slot machines. In order to determine this issue, the Court must look beyond the entertaining

display and consider what programs the machines are running and how the machines are

configured. Mr. Holmes’s testimony does not help the Court determine this issue because he is

incapable of analyzing or testing the software programs or machine configuration. Mr. Holmes

admitted he did not turn the machines on or plug in the machines. Mr. Holmes simply observed

reels on several machines in video that purported to be taken of the machines in this case and

declared them slot machines. However, Mr. Holmes does not know whether the reels or the bingo

games determine the outcome of the play of the machines. Most importantly, Mr. Holmes is

incapable of testing the machines in order to determine this fact. Mr. Holmes admitted that he has

no lab, no equipment, no expertise, no training, an no skills which would enable him to examine

the games and determine whether the reels are merely entertaining “bells and whistles” which have

no bearing on the play of the bingo games or whether the machines are slot machines. Thus, Mr.

Holmes’s testimony fails to meet the helpfulness prong for the admissibility of expert testimony.

VI. THE APPLICABLE RULES OF EVIDENCE REQUIRE EXCLUSION OF

HOLMES’S OPINION TESTIMONY

25

As the Court explained in Daubert, “[t]hroughout, a judge assessing a proffer of expert

scientific testimony under Rule 702 should also be mindful of other applicable rules.” Id. at 595.

Because of the powerful and potentially misleading effect of expert evidence, see id., sometimes

expert opinions that otherwise meet the admissibility requirements may still be excluded by

applying Rule 403. Frazier, 387 F.3d at 1263. The Eleventh Circuit has recognized the “intricate

role of Rule 403 in an expert testimony admissibility analysis . . . [as the Supreme Court] noted

that expert testimony could be ‘both powerful and quite misleading because of the difficulty in

evaluating it.’” Allison, 184 F.3d at 1310 (quoting Daubert, 509 U.S. at 595). Because of this

risk, the judge must exercise more control over experts than over lay witness when weighing

possible prejudice against probative force under Rule 403. Daubert, 509 U.S. at 595 (citation

omitted).

CONCLUSION

The State bears the burden of establishing that its expert is both qualified and his testimony

is helpful in order to meet the threshold requirements for the admissibility of expert testimony

pursuant to Ala. R. Evid. 702. Regardless of whether the test is Rule 702 or Daubert, the State

cannot satisfy the threshold questions of qualification or helpfulness. The undisputed evidence

demonstrates that Holmes’s experience does not qualify him as an expert on the matters about

which he offers his opinion. Holmes’s opinion evidence is not grounded in methodology and lacks

reliability. Moreover, Holmes’s testimony does not assist the trier of fact because it is comprised

of opinion testimony which amounts to impermissible legal conclusions and his opinions are

unduly speculative. Mr. Holmes is a former FBI Agent and does possess qualifications above

those of the average layman. However, his opinion regarding the electronic bingo games at issue

in this case is not based on any expertise, but is merely a collection of bald assertions not supported

26

by any testing or physical evidence. Mr. Holmes himself admits that his inspection was cursory

and that he did no testing, analysis, or examination. Instead, a review of Mr. Holmes’s deposition

clearly demonstrates a lack of sufficient testing or experimentation and reveals merely a collection

of statements with no foundation. Mr. Holmes did not do anything that this Court or a layperson

could not do. Mr. Holmes’s testimony is not based upon his personal knowledge, contains

presumptive, baseless conclusions, purely speculative inferences, and is based upon hearsay

statements. The fact that Mr. Holmes has been recognized as an expert witness in past cases, almost

exclusively while he was employed by the FBI nearly 30 years ago, does not in and of itself qualify

him to provide expert testimony in this matter. Mr. Holmes has never testified in a case involving

electronic bingo games. Therefore his opinions are due to be excluded pursuant to Rule 702 and

Daubert.

One is reminded of Maslow’s Hammer, which is the proposition that, “If you only have a

hammer, everything looks like a nail.” Both during and after his time with the FBI, Mr. Holmes

made his living by opining that a given device is a slot machine. In Mr. Holmes’s world,

everything looks like a slot machine. And with that world view as his backdrop, Mr. Holmes

concludes if it looks like a slot machine, it is a slot machine. Mr. Holmes did not even view the

machines at issue in this case, the video prepared by the undercover officers, or the State’s Rule

26 Expert Disclosure before his deposition had been scheduled. [Holmes Macon 34:22- 36:8] In

other words, Mr. Holmes knew what his opinion would be before he ever laid eyes on the seized

machines. As demonstrated above, Mr. Holmes’s testimony at deposition disclosed that his

opinions in this case are not grounded in any scientific testing or methodology or forensic

examination of any of the seized computers or equipment. Even if Mr. Holmes was qualified to

perform a forensic examination of the seized equipment, which he is not, he did not perform any

27

such examination here. Mr. Holmes’s “I know it when I see it, and everything I see is a slot

machine” approach is no substitute for scientific validation or forensic analysis.

Because Mr. Holmes’s testimony is nothing more than mere speculation and guesswork,

and its probative value is greatly outweighed by the dangers of extreme prejudice, it should be

excluded. Therefore, based upon the foregoing, Mr. Holmes is due to be disqualified as an expert

witness by this Court and the State should be precluded from introducing any opinion testimony

by Holmes at any trial in this case.

Respectfully submitted,

/s/ John M. Bolton, III

John M. Bolton, III (BOL012)

Charlanna W. Spencer (SPE044)

Counsel for KC Economic Development, LLC

OF COUNSEL:

HILL, HILL, CARTER,

FRANCO, COLE & BLACK, P.C.

Post Office Box 116

Montgomery, Alabama 36101-0116

334.834.7600 - Telephone

334.262.4389 - Facsimile

[email protected]

[email protected]

Joe Espy, III (ESP002)

J. Flynn Mozingo (MOZ003)

William M. Espy (ESP007)

MELTON, ESPY & WILLIAMS, P.C.

Post Office Drawer 5130

Montgomery, AL 36103

334.263.6621 - Telephone

334.263.7252 - Facsimile

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

mailto:[email protected]





28

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on the 26th day of August, 2014, I served a copy of the foregoing via

electronic and US Mail, postage prepaid, on the following counsel of record:

Honorable Luther Strange

Henry T. Reagan

John Kachelman, III

Office of the Attorney General

501 Washington A venue

Montgomery, AL 36130

[email protected]

[email protected]

Craig R. Izard

Post Office Box 130277

Birmingham, AL 35213-0277

[email protected]

Christie D. Knowles

Cusimano, Keener, Roberts, Knowles

& Raley, LLC

153 S. 9th Street

Gadsden, AL 35901

[email protected]

Robert D. Segall

Shannon L. Holliday

Copeland, Franco, Screws & Gill, P.A.

P.O. Box 347

Montgomery, AL 36101-0347

[email protected]

[email protected]

Matthew C. McDonald

Kenneth Steeley

Jones Walker Waechter Poitevent

Carrere & Denegre

P.O. Box 46

Mobile, AL 36601-0046

[email protected]

[email protected]

/s/ John M. Bolton, III

Of Counsel









Exhibit A

In The Matter Of:State of Alabama vs.

$223,405.86 U.S. Currency, et al

William L. Holmes

August 7, 2014

Baker Realtime Reporting and Video Services

250 Commerce Street

Third Floor, Suite One

Montgomery, Alabama 36104

www.bakerrealtime.com

Original File 8-7-14 - William Holmes.txt

Min-U-Script® with Word Index

State of Alabama vs.$223,405.86 U.S. Currency, et al

William L. HolmesAugust 7, 2014

Page 1

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE FIFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT MACON COUNTY, ALABAMA STATE OF ALABAMA, Petitioner, vs. CASE NO. CV-2013-900031 $223,405.86 U.S. CURRENCY & 1,615 ELECTRONIC GAMBLING DEVICES and RELATED PROPERTY IDENTIFIED IN EXHIBIT A, et al., Defendants. * * * * * * * * The deposition of WILLIAM L. HOLMES was taken before Cornelia J. Baker, Certified Court Reporter, ACCR 290, and Certified Shorthand Reporter, as Commissioner, on Thursday, August 7, 2014, commencing at approximately 9:02 a.m., at the State of Alabama, Office of the Attorney General, 501 Washington Avenue, Montgomery, Alabama, pursuant to the stipulations set forth herein.

Page 2

1 * * * * * * * 2 APPEARANCES 3 Representing the Plaintiff: 4 MR. H. SONNY REAGAN MR. JOHN L. KACHELMAN, III 5 Assistant Attorneys General 501 Washington Avenue 6 Montgomery, Alabama 36104 334.242.7300 7 [email protected] [email protected] 8 Representing the Defendants: 9 MR. JOHN M. BOLTON10 MS. CHARLANNA W. SPENCER Attorneys at Law11 Hill, Hill, Carter, Franco, Cole & Black, P.C.12 425 South Perry Street Montgomery, Alabama 3610413 334.834.7600 [email protected] [email protected] 15 MR. JOSEPH C. ESPY, III MR. WILLIAM M. ESPY16 Attorneys at Law Melton, Espy & Williams, P.C.17 255 Dexter Avenue Montgomery, Alabama 3610418 334.263.6621 19 MR. CRAIG IZARD Post Office Box 13027720 Birmingham, Alabama 35213-0277 [email protected] 22 Also present: 23 Mrs. Amber Tornow

Page 3

1 * * * * * * * * 2 3 STIPULATIONS 4 5 It is hereby stipulated and 6 agreed by and between counsel representing 7 the parties that the deposition of WILLIAM 8 L. HOLMES is taken pursuant to the Rules of 9 Civil Procedure, and that said deposition10 may be taken before Cornelia J. Baker,11 Certified Court Reporter, as Commissioner,12 without the formality of a commission; that13 objections to questions, other than14 objections as to the form of the questions,15 need not be made at this time, but may be16 reserved for a ruling at such time as the17 deposition may be offered into evidence, or18 used for any other purpose by either party19 hereto, provided by the Statute.20 It is further stipulated and agreed by21 and between counsel representing the22 parties in this case, that the filing of23 the deposition of WILLIAM L. HOLMES is

Page 4

1 hereby waived, and that said deposition may 2 be introduced at the trial of this case or 3 used in any other manner by either party 4 hereto provided for by the Statute, 5 regardless of the waiving of the filing of 6 same. 7 It is further stipulated and agreed by 8 and between counsel and the witness that 9 the reading and signing of the deposition10 by the witness is hereby not waived.11 12 * * * * * * * *13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Min-U-Script® Baker Realtime Reporting and Video Services334.262.3332 888.253.3377

(1) Pages 1 - 4



Page 5

1 * * * * * * * * I N D E X 2 EXAMINATION PAGE 3 BY MR. BOLTON: 9 BY MR. REAGAN: 148 4 BY MR. BOLTON: 165 BY MR. ESPY: 178 5 6 EXHIBIT PAGE 7 Exhibit Number 1 ........ 14 Notice of Deposition 8 Exhibit Number 2 ........ 33 9 Notice of State's Rule 26 Expert Disclosure10 Exhibit Number 3 ........ 5111 Copy of front of two CDs; State 18151 and State 1813812 Exhibit Number 4 ........ 5313 August 6, 2014, handwritten notes of Mr. Holmes14 Exhibit Number 5 ........ 8715 Photograph 16 Exhibit Number 6 ........ 87 Photograph17 Exhibit Number 7 ........ 8718 Photograph 19 Exhibit Number 8 ........ 87 Photograph20 Exhibit Number 9 ........ 8721 Photograph 22 Exhibit Number 10 ........ 87 Photograph23

Page 6

1 (Exhibit Index continued) 2 Exhibit Number 11 ........ 87 Photograph 3 Exhibit Number 12 ........ 87 4 Photograph 5 Exhibit Number 13 ........ 87 Photograph 6 Exhibit Number 14 ........ 87 7 Photograph 8 Exhibit Number 15 ........ 87 Photograph 9 Exhibit Number 16 ........ 8710 Photograph 11 Exhibit Number 17 ........ 87 Photograph12 Exhibit Number 18 ........ 8713 Photograph 14 Exhibit Number 19 ........ 87 Photograph15 Exhibit Number 20 ........ 8716 Photograph 17 Exhibit Number 21 ........ 87 Photograph18 Exhibit Number 22 ........ 8719 Photograph 20 Exhibit Number 23 ........ 87 Photograph21 Exhibit Number 24 ........ 8722 Photograph 23

Page 7

1 (Exhibit Index continued) 2 Exhibit Number 25 ........ 87 Photograph 3 Exhibit Number 26 ........ 87 4 Photograph 5 Exhibit Number 27 ........ 87 Photograph 6 Exhibit Number 28 ........ 87 7 Photograph 8 Exhibit Number 29 ........ 87 Photograph 9 Exhibit Number 30 ........ 8710 Photograph 11 Exhibit Number 31 ........ 87 Photograph12 Exhibit Number 32 ........ 10513 Photograph 14 Exhibit Number 33 ........ 129 Alabama Code 13A-12-2015 Exhibit Number 34 ........ 14516 Amendment 744, Ratified Bingo Games in Macon County17 Exhibit Number 35 ........ 16818 August 6, 2014, Handwritten Notes made by Mr. Holmes19 Exhibit Number 36 ........ 15720 May 20, 2014, letter to Mr. Williams Holmes from Sonny21 Reagan 22 Exhibit Number 37 ........ 177 July 3, 2013, deposition transcript23 of William L. Holmes

Page 8

1 WILLIAM L. HOLMES, 2 The Witness, having first been 3 sworn or affirmed to speak the truth, 4 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, 5 testified as follows: 6 COURT REPORTER: Usual 7 stipulations? 8 MR. REAGAN: Yes. We would 9 like the opportunity to review and10 read and make any corrections.11 MR. BOLTON: That's fine.12 Has he read and signed the last13 one?14 COURT REPORTER: He has.15 MR. BOLTON: Okay. I didn't16 get a copy of any errata sheet, so17 I didn't know.18 MR. REAGAN: If you didn't19 get it, we'll make sure you do have20 it.21 MR. BOLTON: Yeah. I've22 never seen it. Of course, it may23 have come with your copy that you


(2) Pages 5 - 8



Page 9

1 sent to us, and I just would not 2 have seen it. 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. BOLTON: 5 Q. Would you state your name for 6 the Record, sir? 7 A. William L. Holmes, H-O-L-M-E-S. 8 Q. Mr. Holmes, my name is John 9 Bolton, and this is my partner, Charlanna10 Spencer. We are two of the attorneys for11 K.C. Economic Development in this case that's12 pending in Macon County, Alabama.13 We've got a few questions to14 ask you this morning much like the ones we15 asked you on July the 3rd. So, hopefully,16 you'll give the same answers you gave on July17 the 3rd.18 A. Yes.19 Q. Okay. What is your address?20 A. 8403 Stone Gate Drive,21 Annandale, Virginia, A-N-N-A-N-D-A-L-E,22 22003.23 Q. And how are you employed,

Page 10

1 Mr. Holmes? 2 A. I am a consultant, retired and 3 consultant. 4 Q. Okay. And what is the name of 5 your consulting company? 6 A. Bill Holmes & Associates. 7 Q. And what's the address of Bill 8 Holmes & Associates? 9 A. The same.10 Q. Same as your home address?11 A. Yes.12 Q. Okay. And how long have you13 had this consulting business?14 A. Since 1988.15 Q. And what is your date of birth?16 A. 5/6/33.17 Q. And as I understand it, you're18 retired from the FBI?19 A. Yes.20 Q. You retired in 1988?21 A. Yes.22 Q. I think you gave me a date last23 time. Do you remember the date you retired?

Page 11

1 A. I believe it was the 28th, but 2 I'm not sure. 3 Q. The 28th of October? 4 A. Yeah. It doesn't really 5 matter, because that month is the one that 6 dictates. 7 Q. Okay. October 28th, 1988, is 8 when you retired from the FBI? 9 A. Right.10 Q. Okay. So you worked, if I11 understand it, approximately 20 years with12 the FBI?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. What did you do when you worked15 for them?16 A. For six years, I was the field17 agent working organized crime cases in18 Buffalo.19 Q. Okay.20 A. And then I was transferred to21 the laboratory division where I worked22 gambling cases until I retired, approximately23 14 years.

Page 12

1 Q. And what types of evidence did 2 you examine when you were working the 3 gambling cases? 4 A. Records of gambling operations, 5 numbers, bookmaking, video gambling devices, 6 slot machines, gambling paraphernalia for 7 carnival games -- including carnival games. 8 Q. Okay. And what type of 9 analysis did you perform on the video games10 that you examined when you worked for the11 FBI?12 A. Well, it depended on whether or13 not I'd seen the machines previously or not.14 But otherwise, I would do -- I played the15 machines to see if the characteristics were16 the same as what I've experienced in the17 past.18 Q. Okay. And I believe you told19 me before that basically you looked at the20 play characteristics and the operational21 characteristics of each device you examined22 when you worked with the FBI?23 A. That's correct.


(3) Pages 9 - 12



Page 13

1 Q. Okay. Did you do any other 2 kind of examination? 3 A. Sometimes empirical testing. 4 Q. And what kind of empirical 5 testing? 6 A. That's where you play the 7 machine, record what data was a result of the 8 play, and then analyze what that data 9 indicated.10 Q. Okay. Now, I understand your11 consulting business is located in your home.12 Do you have a separate room where your13 consulting business is based?14 A. Yes. It's a basement.15 Q. Okay. In the basement?16 A. Yes.17 Q. And what do you have in the18 basement where the consulting business is19 located?20 A. Desk, credenza, computer,21 printer, copy machine, fax machine, and a22 chair.23 Q. Have a telephone?

Page 14

1 A. Yes, and a telephone. 2 Q. Okay. All right. Let me show 3 you what we've marked as Exhibit Number 1 to 4 your deposition, Mr. Holmes, which is a 5 deposition notice that we've already provided 6 to your counsel. And are you appearing today 7 pursuant to that deposition notice, sir? 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 1 was 9 marked for identification and10 is attached hereto.)11 (The Witness reviewed the12 document.)13 A. This is the first time I've14 seen this.15 Q. Okay.16 A. And, yes, I'm here as a result17 of this.18 Q. All right. But you had never19 seen that before you walked in today?20 A. No.21 Q. Okay. Does Bill Holmes &22 Associates have any employees?23 A. No. I call on people that have

Page 15

1 other expertise if it's needed. 2 Q. Okay. And I think you told me 3 before that you don't have a lab; is that 4 true? 5 A. Per se, yes. 6 Q. Okay. Would you describe for 7 me, sir, your educational background? 8 A. I have a Bachelor's degree in 9 economics and a Master's degree in forensic10 science from George Washington University.11 Q. Okay. And the Bachelor's in12 economics, I think you told me before that13 you got that at North Park College in14 Chicago?15 A. That's correct.16 Q. In 1967?17 A. Yes.18 Q. And your Master's degree, I19 think you told me you got that while you were20 working with the FBI in 1979?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. Okay. Now, on your CV that23 we've been provided in this case, you listed

Page 16

1 a number of lectures and presentations and 2 articles that you had authored. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Do you recall that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did any of those articles or 7 lectures or presentations involve Bingo? 8 A. Not Bingo, per se, because 9 there's a pinball machine called Bingo that10 I've examined and testified on.11 Q. But it's a pinball machine;12 it's not a Bingo game?13 A. It's pinball, that's correct.14 But labeled Bingo.15 Q. Okay. And none of your16 lectures or presentations or articles dealt17 with electronic Bingo, did they?18 A. Not formally, no.19 Q. Okay. Now, I think you've20 listed some testimony that you gave. The21 testimony that you gave in the federal court22 cases, what did that involve?23 A. Several topics, like sports


(4) Pages 13 - 16



Page 17

1 bookmaking, numbers operations, video 2 gambling devices, slot machines, and carnival 3 games. 4 Q. And carnival games. And I 5 think you told me dice? 6 A. Yes, altered cards and dice. 7 Q. Okay. Altered cards and dice? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. Now, all of this was testimony10 that you gave while you were employed with11 the FBI, correct?12 A. Not all of it.13 Q. Okay.14 A. The video games and slot15 machines were when I retired.16 Q. Okay. And I think you told me17 that since you retired in 1988, you've only18 testified on one occasion regarding gambling19 devices. Do you recall that?20 MR. REAGAN: Object to the21 form.22 A. I don't really recall that,23 because I think it was more than once.

Page 18

1 Q. Okay. Well, let's look at your 2 testimony. 3 Let me show you a copy of your 4 deposition that was taken in the matter of 5 State of Alabama versus 825 Electronic 6 Gambling Devices that's pending in the 7 Circuit Court of Greene County that was taken 8 on July the 3rd. And I'd ask you to refer to 9 page 134 of your deposition. Do you see10 that?11 A. I've got the page.12 Q. Okay. Look about line eight.13 And my question was: When did you last14 testify regarding gambling devices?15 Answer -- read your answer into the Record,16 please, sir.17 A. Which section here?18 Q. It's line 10 on page 134.19 A. I'm sorry. 137.20 MR. REAGAN: And for the21 Record, I'd like to note that there22 are four pages on one 8-by-11 page,23 so it's small print and a little

Page 19

1 bit difficult to find. 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. I think your answer begins at 4 line 10, sir. 5 A. Right. It says: I don't 6 recall testimony, because I made 7 presentations, conferences, et cetera, so I 8 don't know. The last one listed on my vitae 9 is '89, I believe.10 Q. Okay. Has any of your11 testimony since you retired involved12 electronic Bingo games?13 A. No.14 Q. Now, I think you've testified15 and your CV reflects that you've been16 qualified over 265 times by courts as an17 expert witness?18 A. That's correct. Actually, it's19 more than that now.20 Q. Okay. How many times have you21 been qualified as an expert witness as of22 today, sir?23 A. 279, I believe.

Page 20

1 Q. Okay. And when was the last 2 time you testified as an expert witness in 3 any case? 4 A. I really don't remember. 5 Q. Okay. Would it be reflected on 6 your CV? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. What percentage of the 9 279 times you've testified involved10 bookmaking cases?11 A. Well, maybe 30 to 40 percent.12 Q. Okay. And just so the Record13 will be clear: The 279 times you're talking14 about, those include cases during the 20-year15 period that you've worked for the FBI?16 A. No. That was after -- oh, I'm17 sorry. You're right.18 Q. Okay.19 A. It included all of the20 testimony that I made during my career and21 after.22 Q. Okay. So it goes back to 196823 when you first began with the FBI?


(5) Pages 17 - 20



Page 21

1 A. Yes -- well, actually '69. 2 Q. Okay. Do you know what 3 percentage of your testimonies that you've 4 given involved sweepstakes cases? 5 A. Not really. It's a small 6 percentage. 7 Q. Okay. What about slot 8 machines? 9 A. Towards the end, the most10 recent period of retirement would have been a11 greater number of cases.12 Q. Okay. Of the 279 times that13 you've testified as an expert witness, what14 percentage of those times involved slot15 machines?16 A. I wouldn't have an idea.17 Q. Okay. But none of the cases, I18 think you've told me, involved electronic19 Bingo games; is that correct?20 A. Testimony, that's correct.21 Q. Okay.22 A. Examination is different.23 Q. Okay. We'll get to your

Page 22

1 examinations in a bit. 2 Have you ever testified in any 3 court in Alabama, state or federal court? 4 A. Not testified, no. 5 Q. Okay. And you're not an 6 engineer? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. You're not a lawyer? 9 A. That's correct.10 Q. You don't have any engineers on11 your staff employed by Bill Holmes &12 Associates?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. Okay. You're not an expert in15 computer programming?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. You're not a software engineer?18 A. That's correct.19 Q. You're not an expert on20 computer software, are you?21 A. No, I'm not.22 Q. Okay. You've never designed23 any computer software?

Page 23

1 A. No. 2 Q. You've never examined computer 3 software and testified about your 4 examination, have you? 5 A. Indirectly, yes. 6 Q. Indirectly. You've examined 7 computer software? 8 A. My statement before is that any 9 computer software is -- whatever is in the10 program, is reflected on the screen when it's11 operational. I've analyzed what was12 projected onto the screen from the program.13 Q. But you've never actually14 examined the software and testified about the15 software; what you've testified about is what16 appears on the screen?17 A. That's a result of the18 software, in my opinion.19 Q. All right, sir. You've never20 designed a gambling device, have you?21 A. No.22 Q. You've never written any23 software for a gambling device, have you?

Page 24

1 A. That's correct. I have not. 2 Q. You've never certified a game 3 as a Bingo game, have you? 4 A. No. 5 Q. You've never testified that a 6 particular game is the game of Bingo? 7 A. Testified, no. 8 Q. Okay. You've never testified 9 that a particular game is not the game of10 Bingo other than your testimony on July the11 3rd?12 A. Other than that, no.13 Q. Okay. Have you ever been asked14 to certify a Class II Bingo game?15 A. No.16 Q. Now, does Bill Holmes &17 Associates also provide security services and18 background investigations for employment?19 A. Yes.20 Q. They still do that?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Okay. And I think you told me23 before that you also examine business


(6) Pages 21 - 24



Page 25

1 records? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. And do you still give 4 testimony regarding carnival frauds? 5 A. Not recently, but yes, I am 6 still called upon to make comments. 7 Q. Okay. And altered playing 8 cards and altered dice? 9 A. Not recently, but yes.10 Q. Okay. And pyramid schemes?11 A. Yes.12 Q. You're also a licensed private13 investigator for the State of Virginia?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Is your license current?16 A. Yes.17 Q. Since you left the FBI in 1988,18 what percentage of your work has been related19 to being a private investigator?20 A. A private investigator, per se,21 none. It's just that I have to be licensed22 in order to work for the bureau doing23 background investigations.

Page 26

1 Q. Okay. Well, what percentage of 2 your work since you left the FBI has involved 3 services regarding background investigations? 4 A. I don't know what the 5 percentage would be, but I have approximately 6 120 cases a year. 7 Q. Okay. 120 cases a year where 8 you do background investigations? 9 A. That's correct.10 Q. Okay. And these are background11 investigations for perspective employees for12 the government?13 A. Well, it's a security14 investigation, background investigation, so15 that they can get a level of security,16 secret, top secret, SCI, and et cetera.17 Q. Are these investigations that18 you perform for the FBI?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Okay. Is that your primary21 work these days?22 A. Up until recently, yes.23 Q. Okay. You mean since June of

Page 27

1 this year? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. Now, I think you told me 4 before that approximately 60 percent or more 5 of your work since you left the FBI has been 6 involved in security. Is that the background 7 investigations you're talking about? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. What percentage of your10 work since you left the FBI up until recently11 has been testifying as an expert?12 A. I couldn't really tell you. I13 have no idea.14 Q. Okay.15 A. Because my testimonies have16 been infrequent in the last couple of years.17 Q. Okay. Well, they've really18 been infrequent since about 1999, haven't19 they?20 A. It's possible. I think there21 was something after that, but I'm not sure.22 Q. Okay. Do you recall the last23 time you testified regarding a gambling

Page 28

1 device? 2 A. No, sir. 3 Q. Okay. Now, the State has 4 presented you as an expert witness in this 5 case, and I just wanted to ask you a few 6 questions about that. 7 What opinions are you offering 8 in this case, sir? 9 A. My opinion, that they're10 gambling devices.11 Q. That the devices that you12 looked at are gambling devices?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. Okay. And what documents or15 materials or information are you relying on16 in getting to that opinion?17 A. My experience and playing of18 these type of machines in the past.19 Q. Okay. When you're saying20 "these type of machines," what you're talking21 about is playing video machines or video22 gambling devices, true?23 A. That's correct.


(7) Pages 25 - 28



Page 29

1 Q. Okay. You've never played an 2 electronic Bingo machine, as I recall your 3 testimony; is that right? 4 A. Well, if you're implying that 5 the machines that we looked at are Bingo 6 games, I disagree, and I have not. 7 Otherwise, I have. 8 Q. Okay. But you haven't played 9 any machines, and I think you told me last10 time you've not played any machines like the11 ones that you looked at in this case or that12 you looked at in the other case, have you?13 A. I have. But I think I told you14 it was on two or three different occasions,15 but I couldn't tell you where or when.16 Q. Okay. And I think what you17 told me before is prior to the time you left18 the FBI, you looked at some video games on a19 Native American reservation in Texas?20 A. That's one of them; that's21 correct. But that was before I retired.22 After I retired, I had two more.23 Q. Okay. And where were those?

Page 30

1 A. I have no idea. 2 Q. When were those? 3 A. Probably three or four years 4 ago. 5 Q. Okay. Now, were those also on 6 Native American reservations? 7 A. One of them was. 8 Q. And which state was the Native 9 American reservation located?10 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.11 It's not relevant.12 A. I don't know.13 Q. Now, the other game you're14 talking about, where was that?15 A. The third one?16 Q. Yes, sir.17 A. Same thing, I don't recall.18 Q. Okay. Do you remember what19 state it was in?20 A. No.21 Q. Do you remember when it was?22 A. Approximately, the same period.23 Q. Okay. Did you testify about

Page 31

1 either of the games you looked at in either 2 of the unknown locations? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I did give a report to the 6 individuals that requested my services. 7 Q. Okay. Who requested your 8 services? 9 A. I think it was the State, but10 I'm not sure.11 Q. And you don't remember which12 state?13 A. No. Other than Texas, no.14 Q. Okay. Now, have you prepared15 or do you plan to prepare an expert report in16 this case?17 A. No, I don't.18 Q. Have you looked at the Bingo19 games in this case?20 A. I've looked at the machines in21 question; not all of them.22 Q. Okay. When did you look at23 them?

Page 32

1 A. Yesterday, the 6th -- I'm 2 sorry. August the 6th. 3 Q. Do you plan to do anything 4 further before your trial testimony in this 5 case? 6 A. Not unless the situation arises 7 where I've got to verify something. 8 Q. Okay. Before you visited 9 Alabama on July the 2nd of this year, had you10 ever visited Alabama before?11 A. Yes.12 Q. When was that?13 A. That, I don't know. I think14 it's listed in my vitae.15 Q. Okay. And in what connection16 did you visit Alabama on that prior occasion?17 A. I'd have to look at the vitae.18 I don't recall.19 Q. All right. Well, let me show20 you what we've marked as Defendants' Exhibit21 Number 2 to your deposition, which is the22 State's Rule 26 expert disclosure. And23 attached to the expert disclosure is a copy


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Page 33

1 of your vitae. Let you take a look at that, 2 if you would. 3 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 2 was 4 marked for identification and 5 is attached hereto.) 6 (The Witness reviewed the 7 document.) 8 A. Okay. Jackson University, 9 Anniston, Alabama. Northeast Police Academy.10 Q. And what page are you looking11 at, sir?12 A. Two. That was a lecture and13 presentation.14 Q. Okay. It says: Gambling15 technology bookmaking, Northeast16 Police Academy, Jacksonville University,17 Annaston (sic), Alabama?18 A. Right.19 Q. 1979?20 A. Yes.21 Q. Okay. That was while you were22 working for the FBI?23 A. That's correct.

Page 34

1 Q. You gave a lecture at 2 Jacksonville State University, which I think 3 is located in Anniston, Alabama? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. On bookmaking? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Have you ever made any 8 other presentation or testified in any case 9 in Alabama since you left the FBI?10 A. Not testified, no.11 Q. Okay. Have you made any12 presentation in Alabama since you left the13 FBI?14 A. I believe so, if I can find it.15 (The Witness reviewed the16 document.)17 A. No. I can't find it.18 Q. Okay. All right. I didn't see19 one, but if you find it later today or at a20 break, you let me know, okay?21 A. Yes.22 Q. All right, sir. Exhibit 2,23 this expert disclosure, let me ask you to

Page 35

1 take a look at that for a moment. Have you 2 seen that before, the expert disclosure you 3 have in your hand? 4 A. I think I might have, but I 5 don't recall. 6 Q. Okay. Did you prepare it? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. When did you first see 9 it?10 A. I have no idea.11 Q. Okay. Do you know who did12 prepare it?13 A. I would assume the office of14 the attorney general.15 Q. Okay. Did you review it before16 it was filed, sir?17 A. No.18 Q. Have you reviewed it before19 today?20 A. I believe I was shown it the21 last time I was here, the 2nd.22 Q. Okay. Well, I know you saw the23 one in the other case. Did you see the one

Page 36

1 in this case, too? 2 A. If this is it. 3 Q. No, sir. This is the one in 4 this case. 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Exhibit 2. 7 A. Then I have not seen it until 8 today. 9 Q. Okay. Thank you.10 Now, when were you first11 engaged as an expert witness in this case?12 A. A week prior to -- a week or13 two prior to the 2nd.14 Q. A week or two prior to July the15 2nd?16 A. Yes.17 Q. Okay. And who contacted you,18 sir?19 A. Sonny Reagan.20 Q. And what did he tell you when21 he called you?22 A. Asked me if I would be23 available to testify in a case that he was


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Page 37

1 working. 2 Q. Did he tell you what kind of 3 case it was? 4 A. Not specifically, no. 5 Q. Okay. Did he tell you what he 6 wanted you to do in the case? 7 A. I don't believe he told me 8 specifically. He said he was going to give 9 me a presentation to show me what he had.10 And I'd make my decision as to whether I11 would be able to do so.12 Q. Okay. And did Mr. Reagan13 subsequently make a presentation to you?14 A. Yes.15 Q. Okay. And when was that?16 A. I believe a week before the17 7th -- or the 2nd, rather, when we had a18 meeting in Baltimore.19 Q. All right, sir. And what did20 you receive or did Mr. Reagan give you at21 that meeting in Baltimore relating to this22 case?23 A. I don't believe there was

Page 38

1 anything relating to this case that I had 2 received then. 3 Q. Okay. And he didn't give you 4 anything at that meeting relating to this 5 case? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Okay. And did he make any 8 presentation to you at that meeting in 9 Baltimore a week before July the 2nd that you10 recall?11 A. Regarding this case?12 Q. Yes, sir.13 A. No.14 Q. Okay. So the presentation that15 he made to you the week before July the 2nd16 was related to the Greene County case?17 A. If that was the last -- the18 7th, yes.19 Q. You mean if that was the 3rd?20 A. I'm sorry. Yes.21 Q. And when I say the 3rd, I'm22 referring to your testimony that you gave on23 July the 3rd?

Page 39

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. So, as of today, you've 3 not gotten any materials from or been the 4 recipient of any presentation by Mr. Reagan 5 regarding this case? 6 A. I believe that's correct. 7 Q. Okay. Did you do any covert 8 site visits in this case, sir? 9 A. No.10 Q. Have you had any communications11 with Mr. Reagan or Mr. Kachelman or any other12 agent or representative of the State of13 Alabama by letter or e-mail?14 A. No.15 Q. Okay. Now, you told me just a16 moment ago that you did an inspection of some17 of the devices in this case yesterday?18 A. I looked at them.19 Q. You looked at them?20 A. Not an inspection.21 Q. Okay. And I understand that.22 And you've been quite insistent about that.23 You didn't do an examination. You didn't do

Page 40

1 an inspection. You looked at the games? 2 A. That's correct. Because they 3 were inoperable. 4 Q. Okay. And when did you look at 5 these games, what time of day? 6 A. After I arrived, which is 7 around 10:30 in the morning, I believe. And 8 then we took a break. I think it was 12:00. 9 And went back at 2:00 to where the machines10 were, and finished about four or 4:30.11 Q. Now, I probably asked you a12 poor question a moment ago.13 Did you arrive in Montgomery14 around 10:30, or did you begin your looking15 at the devices around 10:30?16 A. I arrived at 10:30.17 Q. Okay. What time of the day did18 you begin looking at the devices?19 A. Probably about eleven.20 Q. Okay. And where did you go to21 look at the devices?22 A. A warehouse where they were23 contained.


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Page 41

1 Q. Okay. Who was present when you 2 looked at these devices? 3 A. Sonny, John, and Gene, an 4 investigator. 5 Q. Are you referring to Gene 6 Sisson? 7 A. Yes. I'm sorry. 8 Q. And that's the gentleman you 9 walked downstairs with a few moments ago10 before your deposition?11 A. Yes.12 Q. That's the baldheaded guy?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. How many machines did15 you look at yesterday?16 A. Well, at least 30.17 Q. Okay. And I believe you told18 me that you looked at or you began your19 looking at around 11:00, and then you took a20 break around noon; is that correct?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. Okay. And then you resumed23 looking at them about what time?

Page 42

1 A. I guess around one. 2 Q. Okay. You're not certain of 3 the time? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Okay. And when did you 6 complete looking at them? 7 A. About 4:30. 8 Q. Okay. Is it your plan to look 9 at or inspect or examine any of the games in10 this case prior to trial?11 A. I don't know. That depends on12 if something comes up.13 Q. Okay. Do you have any present14 plans to do that?15 A. No.16 Q. Has anybody asked you to do17 that?18 A. No.19 Q. Okay. Did you take any notes20 of the approximately 30 devices you looked at21 yesterday?22 A. I took notes, but not of 3023 devices.

Page 43

1 Q. How many devices did you take 2 notes on? 3 (The Witness reviewed the 4 document.) 5 A. Nine. 6 Q. You took notes on nine of the 7 devices you looked at? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Okay. Now, did you or did10 anyone take any photographs of the 3011 devices, approximately 30 devices, you looked12 at?13 A. Yes. Under my direction, Gene.14 And, I believe, Sonny took some pictures.15 Q. Okay. Did they take pictures16 of all 30 devices, or the nine you took notes17 on?18 A. No. Just the nine.19 Q. Okay. Now, you had a sheet of20 notes that you pulled out of your notebook21 that you put back in your notebook. What22 were those notes about?23 A. They were cases that I worked

Page 44

1 for the bureau. They're not related to 2 anything in Alabama. 3 Q. And they're not related to your 4 testimony in this case? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. And what was the purpose 7 of you making notes about those cases? 8 MR. REAGAN: I object to the 9 form.10 A. I happened to leave my note in11 my binder, because that's the binder I take12 when I go out and cover leads. I did not do13 that intentionally.14 Q. Okay. So those notes have15 nothing to do with this case?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. All right. Tell me what you18 did yesterday as you looked at these 3019 devices.20 A. Verified what the operator and21 characteristics would have been on those22 devices, like bill acceptor, player card23 reader, possible knock-off switch, or Medeco


(11) Pages 41 - 44



Page 45

1 switch, on the screen of those that were 2 visible that had reels. Also, viewed a CD of 3 the undercover officer playing the machines 4 on location. 5 Q. Okay. Were you provided any 6 photographs or CDs or videos before you got 7 to Alabama? 8 A. Not of this group, no. 9 Q. Not in this case?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. Did you plug in and12 operate any of the devices you looked at13 yesterday?14 A. They were inoperable.15 Q. Did you plug them in or attempt16 to operate them?17 A. No, I did not.18 Q. Okay. Was your looking at19 these devices videotaped?20 A. No.21 Q. Is the only record of your22 looking at these devices the notes that you23 took and the photographs that were taken by

Page 46

1 Mr. Reagan and another person? Did you 2 identify him? 3 A. Gene. 4 Q. Gene Sisson? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you examine any other 9 devices besides the player stations that are10 depicted in the photographs?11 A. Yes. I did look at other12 machines, or devices, that were not depicted13 in the photographs or in my notes.14 Q. Okay. And that would be the15 difference between the nine and the 3016 devices you testified to earlier?17 A. At least, that's correct.18 Q. Okay. Did you examine any19 servers?20 A. No.21 Q. Did you try to connect these22 devices to servers and operate them?23 A. No.

Page 47

1 Q. Did you examine any other -- 2 strike that. 3 Did you look at any other 4 components besides the player stations that 5 you testified to earlier? 6 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 7 I believe you used the word "player 8 station." 9 A. No.10 Q. So would it be fair to say none11 of the devices that you looked at yesterday12 were functioning and operational at the time13 you looked at them?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Okay. Now, which16 manufacturers, if you recall, did you look at17 games of yesterday?18 A. Well, there's one called19 Centurion, but it also had Nova, N-O-V-A.20 Gateway Manufacturing. Cole Kepro,21 K-E-P-R-O. SGS. Gateway. I don't know if I22 mentioned that or not. There were several by23 ECS. Those are the ones that I've got

Page 48

1 listed. 2 Q. Okay. As you sit here today, 3 do you recall how many of each manufacturer 4 you looked at, how many games of each 5 manufacturer you looked at yesterday? 6 A. No, I do not. That's not what 7 I was checking on. 8 Q. Okay. Other than the looking 9 at that you did yesterday of these games,10 have you performed any other examination or11 testing of the seized games?12 A. Other than viewing the CD,13 which the UC played, undercover officer.14 Q. Okay. And do you have a copy15 of the undercover CD that you were provided16 yesterday?17 A. I don't, no.18 Q. Okay.19 MR. BOLTON: We haven't been20 going quite an hour yet, but this21 may be a good time to take a break22 and get copies of these notes for23 everybody. And, also, I don't


(12) Pages 45 - 48



Page 49

1 know -- we need to have some 2 ability to identify the CD. 3 MR. REAGAN: Sure, 4 absolutely, John. I agree. And we 5 will certainly provide counsel with 6 a copy of Mr. Holmes' notes. 7 And for the Record, the 8 two CD's that Mr. Holmes viewed 9 that he just testified about were10 Bates-labeled State 18138 and11 Bates-labeled State 18151.12 We'll be glad to take a13 break now and get you copies of14 these notes.15 MR. BOLTON: 18151?16 MR. REAGAN: Yes. And,17 also, for more clarification, I18 believe one was called Disc One,19 video taken by Lee Friday and Alan20 Nummy on 2/19/2013. And the other21 was labeled -- I believe it was22 labeled Highlights, UC Highlights.23 MR. BOLTON: I would ask

Page 50

1 that you bring those down here so 2 we can at least make a copy of the 3 front of them that reflect both the 4 Bates numbering and the title of 5 them. 6 MR. REAGAN: We can do that. 7 MR. BOLTON: Okay. 8 MR. REAGAN: I'll make a 9 copy.10 MR. BOLTON: Okay.11 MR. REAGAN: We may want to12 take like maybe a 15-minute break13 to make this happen.14 MR. BOLTON: That's fine.15 MR. REAGAN: Okay.16 (Whereupon, a brief recess was17 taken.)18 MR. REAGAN: John, at the19 break, you had requested a copy of20 notes that the Witness, Mr. Holmes,21 had referred to. And we have made22 photocopies of those, and I will23 provide those to counsel now.

Page 51

1 In addition to those 2 copies, you asked that we provide 3 copies to you of discs that 4 Mr. Holmes, the Witness, viewed. 5 And I've provided photocopies of 6 those discs that he viewed 7 yesterday. I'm providing those 8 copies to counsel now. 9 BY MR. BOLTON: 10 Q. Mr. Holmes, I've marked as11 Defendants' Exhibit Number 3 to your12 deposition a Xerox of the front of two CDs13 that the State has provided us at the break.14 And let me show you those. I'll show you15 that copy, Exhibit Number 3. Are those the16 CDs that you looked at yesterday?17 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 3 was18 marked for identification and19 is attached hereto.)20 (The Witness reviewed the21 document.)22 A. Yes.23 Q. And when did you look at those?

Page 52

1 A. After we left the warehouse 2 where the machines were, which I think was 3 around noon. I'm not sure of the time, exact 4 time. And came back here to the office. 5 Q. Okay. And how long is the 6 Video Highlight CD, which is Bates-numbered 7 State 18151? How long did it last? 8 A. I don't know what the length of 9 that CD was, because we replayed both of them10 for review.11 Q. You replayed them several12 times?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. And then what time did15 you leave here to go back to the warehouse?16 A. I'm not sure, but I think it17 was around four.18 (The Witness reviewed document.)19 A. No, I don't have it here. I'm20 not sure. I think it was around four.21 Q. Around 4 p.m.?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Okay. And then how long did


(13) Pages 49 - 52



Page 53

1 you stay at the warehouse when you went back 2 at 4 p.m.? 3 A. I think I mentioned it before, 4 but I'm not sure. I think it was five, but 5 I'm not sure. 6 Q. Okay. All right. And do you 7 recall how long the video was marked -- the 8 Video Disc One, State 18138, do you recall 9 how long that video was?10 A. No, I do not know the length,11 because we played them both several times.12 Q. Okay. All right. That's fair.13 And let me also mark and ask14 you about Defendants' Exhibit Number 4, which15 are the notes, your notes, that we've been16 provided at the break that are dated17 August 6th, 2014, which I think you have the18 original of before you; is that correct?19 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 4 was20 marked for identification and21 is attached hereto.)22 A. That's correct.23 Q. Would you look at Exhibit

Page 54

1 Number 4 and verify that we have an identical 2 copy of your notes? 3 (The Witness reviewed the 4 document.) 5 A. It appears to be, yes. 6 Q. Okay. Now, what did you do 7 yesterday when you looked at these 8 approximately 30 devices that you looked at? 9 A. Made a comparison of one10 machine to another to see if they were11 identical or not.12 Q. Okay. Anything else?13 A. Also, what characteristics they14 had, operational characteristics.15 Q. Okay. But you didn't operate16 them?17 A. No.18 Q. Okay. And you didn't play19 them?20 A. No.21 Q. Okay. So the only22 characteristics you looked at was what they23 looked like in a nonoperational,

Page 55

1 nonfunctional state, correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. Did you open them up? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And what did you do when you 6 opened them up? 7 A. Took photographs, which we have 8 copies of. 9 Q. Okay. Did you do anything else10 besides take photographs when you opened them11 up?12 A. Looked at the components and13 compared them to what I recognized as14 characteristics of a slot machine.15 Q. Okay. And what components16 inside these devices did you recognize as17 slot machine components?18 A. Well, one of them had five19 mechanical meters. You had bill acceptors,20 you had player card accessible, or you could21 swipe it. Then the components -- I'm sorry.22 The circuit board had a lot of the components23 that would normally be in a slot machine.

Page 56

1 Q. Like what? 2 A. ROMs, EPROMs. R-O-M-S and 3 E-P-R-O-M-S. 4 Q. Well, a Coke machine has a bill 5 acceptor, doesn't it? 6 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 7 A. It does. But it serves a 8 different purpose than the ones on the 9 machines that I looked at.10 Q. Right. And you agree with me,11 don't you, that a Coke machine is not a slot12 machine?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. Okay. But it does have a bill15 acceptor where you put money in it in order16 to get something of value out of the Coke17 machine?18 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.19 A. Some do, yes.20 Q. You mean there's a chance you21 won't get a Coke when you put your money in22 there?23 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.


(14) Pages 53 - 56



Page 57

1 A. No. Not all machines have bill 2 acceptors, Coke machines. 3 Q. Okay. Now, you didn't remove 4 and examine the software in these devices, 5 did you? 6 A. That is correct. I did not. 7 Q. And I think you told me you 8 didn't see them, so I guess you didn't remove 9 and look at the software in the servers, did10 you?11 A. That's correct.12 Q. Okay. And I think you told me13 last time that neither you or anybody at Bill14 Holmes is capable of examining and testing15 the software in either the servers or these16 devices?17 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.18 A. I did not say that. The19 servers, I would not. However, I told you --20 said before, rather, that the program is21 reflected on what it appears on the screen.22 When you analyze that, you get what's in the23 program.

Page 58

1 Q. Okay. What you told me before, 2 and we can look at it in a moment, is you 3 agree that the operation and play of these 4 games is controlled by the program or the 5 software? 6 A. That's correct. I said nothing 7 different. 8 Q. Okay. I understand. But you 9 told me last time that you didn't examine the10 computer software or the computer program,11 right?12 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.13 Q. Isn't that what you told me?14 A. I have not examined the program15 other than what it reflects when it appears16 on the screen when it's activated.17 Q. Okay. And it was not activated18 yesterday when you looked at it, was it?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. Okay. The only thing you could21 look at when it was activated would be the22 two DVDs you looked at?23 A. That would display what the

Page 59

1 machines -- how the machines are operated, 2 yes. 3 Q. Okay. But the devices you 4 looked at yesterday, you didn't examine the 5 software, correct? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And you're not capable of 8 examining the software? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.10 A. Well, I don't want to use the11 term "not capable," because I said before,12 when the program is activated, what appears13 on the screen is the result of that program.14 And that's what I analyzed.15 Q. Okay. Look at page 81 of your16 prior deposition, sir.17 MR. REAGAN: For the Record,18 we have a copy of the Witness's19 deposition that is one page. It's20 printed one page, so it's easier to21 read instead of having four pages22 on one 8-by-11. And he can look at23 this.

Page 60

1 Q. You can look at any deposition 2 you want. 3 A. What page? 4 Q. Eighty-one. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you find page 81? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you see where I asked you, 9 beginning at line four: Is anybody with Bill10 Holmes & Associates capable of examining the11 software or the source code for these12 devices?13 Do you see where I asked that?14 A. Yes, sir.15 Q. And what was your answer?16 A. No.17 Q. Okay.18 A. But as I said before, that's19 not the only way to determine what the20 program indicates.21 Q. Okay. But nobody at Bill22 Holmes, not you or anybody else, is capable23 or competent of examining and testing the


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Page 61

1 software, other than as you say now, looking 2 at what's displayed when it operates? 3 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 4 It's a compound question, it's been 5 asked and answered, and I don't 6 believe that's what the Witness had 7 testified to. 8 A. As I said -- 9 Q. Well, after he's coached you on10 your answer, do you want to change it?11 MR. REAGAN: I'm not12 coaching anybody, Mr. Bolton. I'm13 objecting.14 A. I'm not -- I don't believe he's15 coaching. But as I said before, no. And the16 fact that I or anybody else in my company17 does not have the expertise to examine a18 program doesn't mean we can't examine a19 program, because the results of what that20 program does can be analyzed.21 Q. Okay. But you haven't examined22 a program or tested the computer program in23 this case, have you?

Page 62

1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Okay. And you haven't examined 3 or tested the software or the source code in 4 the servers? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. You didn't even look at the 7 servers? 8 A. That's right. 9 Q. Okay. Is there someone else10 that's to perform a forensic examination of11 the servers or the software, to your12 knowledge?13 A. No.14 Q. Okay. Have you examined any15 source code at all for either the games you16 looked at yesterday or the servers?17 A. No.18 Q. Did you examine the random19 number generator?20 A. That's part of the program, and21 it's in all games of chance.22 Q. Okay.23 A. Pseudorandom number generators

Page 63

1 used to select certain combinations. 2 Q. Did you examine it? 3 A. You don't examine it. It's 4 part of the program. 5 Q. Okay. So you didn't examine 6 it? 7 A. No. When I did the analysis 8 of -- or do the analysis of what appears on 9 the screen, that's part of the examination,10 because the pseudo-number random generator is11 part of the program and appears on the12 screen.13 Q. Do you know where the pseudo,14 as you call it, random number generator is15 located?16 A. It's in the program.17 Q. The program on what?18 A. Of the unit or the device19 itself.20 Q. The device you looked at or the21 server?22 A. No. The device.23 Q. Okay. Now, based on your

Page 64

1 looking at the machines yesterday, could you 2 tell whether or not the machines were linked 3 to one another? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you perform any look or 6 examination or testing of the machines or any 7 other device to determine whether the 8 machines were linked to one another? 9 A. No, sir. I would say they are10 not, except through the server.11 Q. Okay. And did you do any12 testing or examination to determine that they13 were linked through the server?14 A. No, I did not.15 Q. What did you do to determine16 where the random number generator was17 located?18 A. Where it normally is in any19 gambling device, and that's in the program.20 Q. Did you see it?21 A. You don't see it.22 Q. Okay. And you didn't pull out23 the program or the software and test it to


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Page 65

1 see if it was located on the device you 2 looked at; is that fair? 3 MR. REAGAN: Object to form; 4 asked and answered. 5 A. As I stated before, that's not 6 how you determine whether or not a device is 7 a gambling device based on the program that 8 is -- the program will exhibit the 9 characteristics on the screen, and that's10 what you analyze.11 Q. Okay. Well, Bingo is a game of12 chance, isn't it?13 A. Yes.14 Q. A Bingo game is a gambling15 device, isn't it?16 A. In a true sense, yes.17 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, where are18 the Bingo balls drawn on these devices?19 A. I only saw one device where the20 balls -- representation of balls came down21 into the play area of the screen.22 Q. And do you know where the Bingo23 balls are drawn?

Page 66

1 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 2 form. 3 A. The program would indicate 4 whether or not the balls are going to be 5 displayed or not. 6 Q. Okay. But do you know where 7 the Bingo balls are drawn? 8 A. They're not drawn from any 9 source other than the program.10 Q. Well, is that program located11 on the server or the device?12 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.13 A. The device.14 Q. And how did you verify that the15 Bingo balls are drawn on the device as16 opposed to the server?17 A. By observing the video, the DVD18 where it was displayed.19 Q. All right. Let me ask you20 this: Where are the Bingo cards displayed?21 A. It varies. Some are in the22 upper right-hand corner and some in the lower23 left-hand corner -- I mean right-hand corner.

Page 67

1 Q. Can you change your Bingo card 2 on these devices? 3 MR. BOLTON: Object to the 4 form. 5 A. Numbers can change, but it has 6 no bearing on the outcome of the game 7 depicted. 8 Q. Where are the Bingo cards 9 stored?10 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.11 A. As I said before, that's part12 of the program.13 Q. Okay. And where is the program14 you're talking about stored?15 A. In the device.16 Q. In the individual device or in17 the server?18 A. In the individual device.19 Q. Okay. And did you see it20 yesterday?21 A. No. I told you before.22 Q. Okay. All right. Now, on23 these games, these devices, how does a player

Page 68

1 mark his Bingo card? 2 A. He doesn't. The device does it 3 for them. 4 Q. Okay. How does a player claim 5 his prize? 6 A. The device would indicate 7 whether or not they were a winner. 8 Q. Okay. Now, I think you told me 9 last time that you didn't know what "sleeping10 a Bingo" was?11 A. That's correct.12 Q. Okay. And you still don't know13 what it is, do you?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Now, on these games, is there a16 game number that's displayed to the player17 for each different game?18 A. I don't quite understand what19 you mean. Although --20 Q. Well, when you watch -- I'm21 sorry. Go ahead.22 A. Although, on one of the23 devices, there was a square on the upper left


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Page 69

1 side which had indicated what number of game 2 it was. 3 Q. Right. 4 A. That is the only one I saw. 5 Q. And did you see any legend or 6 display that said that the Bingo game was won 7 by a particular game number? 8 A. No. 9 Q. You didn't see that on the10 video?11 A. No.12 Q. Were you able to determine13 whether the Bingo balls were drawn before or14 after the play initiated by the player?15 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.16 A. Once the player activates the17 game, then the balls are drawn automatically18 through the program.19 Q. Okay. And displayed to the20 player?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Okay. And I think you told me23 last time that you didn't know what a "common

Page 70

1 ball draw" was, correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. Now, were you able to 4 determine whether or not the Bingo balls were 5 drawn randomly? 6 A. In my opinion, they were. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Because of the pseudo-number 9 random generator.10 Q. And were they drawn one by one?11 A. Not one and then another. They12 rolled in sequence down an area of the screen13 until they were finished.14 Q. Okay. Well, if they were15 displayed sequentially, did that indicate to16 you that they were drawn sequentially,17 meaning one by one?18 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.19 A. They can't be drawn20 sequentially if the numbers appear randomly,21 not in sequence. Sequentially means one,22 two, three, four, five, and that's not the23 case.

Page 71

1 Q. Okay. I know they're not 2 displayed one, two, three, four, five. 3 My question is: Are the balls 4 drawn, that you say were drawn randomly; are 5 they displayed one by one on the Bingo draw 6 board? 7 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 8 A. They're displayed almost all at 9 the same time, because the balls come around10 and they stop so that the numbers are11 visible.12 Q. Okay. You're saying "almost at13 the same time." Does that mean that there's14 some difference of time between the time you15 see the first ball and the time the last ball16 is displayed?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Okay.19 A. Because they don't come out in20 a burst.21 Q. But you didn't do any testing22 or examination or anything else to determine23 whether or not the random number generator

Page 72

1 draws the balls one by one, did you? 2 MR. REAGAN: Object to form; 3 asked and answered. 4 A. I -- I'm not -- I cannot say 5 that they're drawn one by one, because that's 6 not the case. They come out in a series or a 7 flow of the balls. 8 Q. Well, right now, I'm not asking 9 you about the display. What I'm asking you10 is about the drawing of them.11 Do you not know whether they're12 drawn one by one?13 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.14 A. Well, they are drawn one by15 one.16 Q. Okay.17 A. But displayed accumulatively.18 Q. Okay. Over some sequence of19 time, you told me?20 A. Right. A short period of time.21 Q. Okay. All right. Now, did you22 do any testing or examination to determine23 whether or not these games required more than


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Page 73

1 one player to play them? 2 A. No. And I don't believe they 3 do. 4 Q. Okay. And what's the basis for 5 that? 6 A. My past experience with these 7 type of machines. 8 Q. But you haven't had any 9 experience with electronic Bingo machines,10 have you?11 A. These are not electronic Bingo,12 in my opinion. They're slot machines. And13 yes, I have.14 Q. Okay. You have had experience15 with slot machines?16 A. Yes.17 Q. And in the slot machines, the18 player plays against the machine, correct?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. Okay. But you don't know21 whether -- you didn't do any testing to22 determine whether or not these games23 permitted players to play one another, did

Page 74

1 you? 2 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 3 A. No, I did not. And I don't 4 believe they do. 5 Q. Okay. On these games, 6 Mr. Holmes, could a player display the Bingo 7 patterns? 8 A. The player has no influence on 9 what is displayed on the machine.10 Q. No. What I'm asking you is:11 Could a player, by pushing a button or12 touching the screen, display the winning13 patterns and the award that would be the14 result of achieving that winning pattern?15 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.16 A. Not in my opinion, no.17 Q. Not in your opinion?18 A. That's correct.19 Q. Did you see it yesterday on the20 video?21 A. No.22 Q. Okay. And because you didn't23 see it on the video, is that the basis of

Page 75

1 your opinion? 2 A. Part of it, based on my 3 experience and knowledge. 4 Q. Well, your experience with slot 5 machines have been with spinning reel-type 6 devices, correct? 7 A. And others. But in my opinion, 8 that's what these are, slot machines. 9 Q. I understand you say that. And10 that's because -- and I think you told me11 last time was because you have never seen a12 Bingo machine that has spinning reels,13 correct?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Okay. And I apologize if I've16 asked you this before: But could a player17 touch the Bingo card or touch a button and18 change the Bingo card?19 A. I didn't see that on these20 machines, because it changed automatically21 after certain things occurred --22 Q. Okay.23 A. -- the numbers on the cards

Page 76

1 that were displayed in the upper right-hand 2 corner. 3 Q. Okay. But could a player, 4 himself, change the card by either touching a 5 button or touching the Bingo card? 6 A. On some occasions, I think they 7 could. But I did not observe that. 8 Q. Okay. Were you able to 9 determine, Mr. Holmes, whether the outcome of10 the award to the player on these devices was11 the result of a Bingo game or the result of12 what you call the spinning reels?13 A. In my opinion, it was the14 spinning reels.15 Q. Okay.16 A. Although, on one occasion, a17 pattern of -- a line across the card gave the18 player a bonus play.19 Q. But did you do any testing of20 the software or the source code to verify21 that, sir?22 A. Again, no.23 Q. Okay. And I think you told me


(19) Pages 73 - 76



Page 77

1 last time when I asked that question that you 2 are unable to determine whether or not the 3 award or outcome of the game was based on the 4 Bingo game or the reels was because the games 5 were not operational? 6 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 7 Q. Did you tell me that before, 8 sir? 9 A. Yes. But I did not use the DVD10 which showed this occurring.11 Q. Okay. You saw the DVDs in the12 other case, didn't you?13 A. Not this one.14 Q. You saw DVDs in the other case,15 didn't you?16 A. But not this one.17 MR. REAGAN: Objection to18 form. It's not relevant.19 Q. But not this one what?20 A. The Exhibit 3.21 Q. Okay. You saw DVDs in the22 other case, correct?23 A. That's correct.

Page 78

1 Q. Okay. And you saw DVDs in this 2 case? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. Look at page 98 of your 5 deposition, sir. 6 Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you see my question 9 beginning at line number two: Have you made10 any effort to determine whether or not the11 outcome of the game played on these devices12 was based on the slot machine reel images you13 described?14 And what was your answer?15 A. They were not operational, so I16 could not make that determination.17 Q. In these games that you looked18 at yesterday, they were not operational19 either, correct?20 A. That's correct. But there was21 a DVD that showed the operation of these22 devices, which the other one did not have23 clarification.

Page 79

1 Q. Okay. So your opinion today in 2 this case is based on the DVDs that you 3 looked at? 4 A. Part of it, yes, sir. 5 Q. Okay. Well, that's the only 6 thing you told me you looked at to change 7 your opinion from the last case to this case. 8 Is there anything else? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.10 That's not what the Witness said.11 A. I said the DVD for these12 devices is what gave me the opinion that13 the -- based on the slot machines reel and14 images.15 Q. Okay. So your testimony is16 based on the DVDs that you saw yesterday,17 that the outcome of these games is based on18 the spinning of the reels and not the Bingo19 game?20 A. That's correct.21 Q. Okay. But you haven't done any22 testing of the software or the source code to23 verify that, have you?

Page 80

1 MR. REAGAN: Objection to 2 form. That has been asked and 3 answered over and over, and the 4 Witness has responded each time. 5 A. As I stated before, no. 6 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, on some of 7 these machines, my understanding is a player 8 can turn off the video display of the reels 9 and replace it with a Bingo card. Did you10 see that?11 A. No, sir, I did not.12 Q. Okay. If that's the case on13 some of these devices, would it still be your14 testimony that the outcome of the game is15 based on nonexistent spinning reels or the16 Bingo card?17 MR. REAGAN: Object to the18 form.19 A. There's one device which gives20 the player the option of choosing one of six21 games of which all are based upon chance, not22 the outcome of a Bingo card.23 Q. Well, Bingo is a game of


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Page 81

1 chance, isn't it? 2 A. I said not the outcome of a 3 Bingo game. 4 Q. Okay. And I'm asking you to 5 assume that there's some of these devices 6 where you could turn off the spinning reels 7 and solely display the Bingo card. If you 8 assume that, is it still your testimony that 9 the outcome of the game is based on some10 non-depicted spinning reel, or is it based on11 the outcome of the ball draw and the Bingo12 card?13 MR. REAGAN: Object to the14 form.15 A. Well, number one, I don't16 believe you described the total elements of17 the Bingo game you're describing. You just18 said Bingo game. Now, does that Bingo game19 have drawing of balls, announcing, have20 daubing, have the ability for a player not to21 recognize a number if it's called?22 Q. Are you able to answer my23 question?

Page 82

1 A. I'm trying to. 2 Q. Okay. But my question is: If 3 there's a Bingo card displayed to the player, 4 and that's the only thing displayed to the 5 player on that screen, not any spinning 6 reels, is it still your testimony that the 7 outcome of the game is based on spinning 8 reels? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.10 A. Well, in that hypothetical, if11 there are no reels, then it can't be an12 outcome based upon what the reels indicate.13 Q. Okay. Thank you.14 Let's go back to your notes for15 a moment, Mr. Holmes. And would you read for16 me, starting with the top line, your17 handwriting? It's better than mine, but I'm18 still having trouble reading it.19 A. Warehouse.20 Q. Okay.21 A. 4401 Northern Boulevard,22 Montgomery, Alabama, 36110.23 Q. All right, sir. And then you

Page 83

1 have separately numbered, beginning with one, 2 two, three, four, five, six. Are those the 3 six devices that you took notes on? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Now, did I understand 6 you earlier that you took notes on nine 7 devices? 8 A. Yes. I didn't number them all. 9 Q. Okay. You did not number them10 all?11 A. That's correct.12 Q. All right, sir. Well, let's13 start with the first device that you took14 notes on. Is that numbered one?15 A. Yes.16 Q. Okay. And what does your note17 say?18 A. Control number C260.19 Manufacturer Centurion and N-O-V-A.20 Q. Okay.21 A. And it says Bingo.22 Q. And you've got Bingo in quotes.23 Now, why do you do that?

Page 84

1 A. Because that's what the 2 indicated -- the name that was indicated on 3 the device. And I do not recognize that as a 4 Bingo game. 5 Q. I understand that. But the 6 quotes you have on your notes is the game 7 itself that you looked at had the word 8 "Bingo" on it? 9 A. That's what I said.10 Q. Okay.11 A. I did not recognize that as12 being a Bingo game, so I put it in quotes.13 Q. Okay.14 MR. ESPY: Are you saying15 that Bingo was on the machine, or16 are you saying you wrote Bingo17 because you didn't recognize18 Centurion as a Bingo game?19 THE WITNESS: No. The Bingo20 game was listed on the device.21 MR. ESPY: I guess I'm22 confused. Did the game actually23 say the word "Bingo" on it so you


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Page 85

1 wrote Bingo in quotations, or did 2 you -- I thought what you just said 3 was you didn't recognize this game 4 as a Bingo game, so you put it in 5 quotations? 6 THE WITNESS: That's 7 correct. 8 MR. ESPY: So which is it? 9 (The Witness reviewed the10 document.)11 THE WITNESS: On the front12 part of the device itself, it has a13 card that says "Bingo."14 MR. ESPY: Okay.15 MR. BOLTON: I was trying to16 wait until a break to do this, but17 I think we're going to have to18 number the pictures, because I19 think they may correspond to some20 of your notes.21 THE WITNESS: Right.22 MR. BOLTON: And that may be23 helpful in explaining some of your

Page 86

1 testimony. So let's take a break 2 and do that. 3 We'll mark these 4 photographs that you have in front 5 of you. And we'll try to keep 6 them -- Mr. Reagan may want to help 7 you with marking them so we don't 8 get them out of order so we don't 9 confuse the Record.10 MR. REAGAN: Sure.11 Absolutely. If we can go off the12 Record for about ten minutes, we'll13 try to do that.14 (Whereupon, an off-the-Record15 discussion was held.)16 (Whereupon, a short recess was17 taken.)18 BY MR. BOLTON: 19 Q. Mr. Holmes, what I'm going to20 do is I'm going to hand you Defendants'21 Exhibit 5 through 31, which are the22 photographs you talked about earlier that you23 said were taken yesterday when you looked at

Page 87

1 these devices; is that correct? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. I'm going to hand them 4 to you, and we can talk about them as we go 5 through your notes. 6 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit 7 Numbers 5 through 31 were 8 marked for identification and 9 are attached hereto.)10 MR. REAGAN: Those were11 Exhibits 5 through --12 MR. BOLTON: Five through13 31.14 MR. REAGAN: Okay.15 BY MR. BOLTON: 16 Q. Okay. You had just finished17 reading your notes to us on Item Number One18 on your notes?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Okay. Now, which pictures can21 you tell me, by exhibit number, refer to Item22 Number One, which is Control C260?23 A. Number 5 through 11.

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1 Q. Five through 11? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. Now, the device 4 displayed in Exhibits 5 through 11 is not 5 operational, is it? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Okay. Now, looking at Exhibits 8 8, 9, 10, and 11, do you see that? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Okay. That's the back of some11 device, is it not?12 A. It's the interior of the13 device.14 Q. Well, the back is taken off.15 Is that the picture from the back or a16 picture from the front?17 A. From the front. The door is18 open, and the picture is taken of the back of19 the door. And then the number nine is of the20 device itself, interior.21 Q. All right. Let me try that22 again: On Exhibit Number 8, the door of the23 device is open, and we're looking at the


(22) Pages 85 - 88



Page 89

1 interior of the device from the front? 2 A. No. You're looking at the 3 interior of the door. That's the back of the 4 door. 5 Q. I see. Okay. And then in 6 Exhibit Number 9, what are we looking at? 7 A. That's the interior of the 8 device, the back of it. 9 Q. Okay. Now, is there any10 notation or note or log or legend that11 indicates that Exhibits 8, 9, 10, and 11 are12 from Control Number 260?13 A. Based on what I remember, all14 of these are.15 Q. Okay. But you don't have any16 log of the photographs to tell us today that17 Exhibits 8, 9, 10, and 11 all go with 260, do18 you?19 A. I was the one present that20 indicated the --21 Q. No, sir. My question is: Do22 you have a log?23 A. No, I don't.

Page 90

1 Q. Okay. And nobody made a log of 2 the devices? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. I mean a log of the 5 photographs. I beg your pardon. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Now, what is depicted in 8 Exhibit Number 8? I know you said it's the 9 back of the door, but what do you see10 displayed to you?11 A. It shows the container for the12 circuit board, and it shows a location where13 the bill acceptor would have been. It shows,14 also, the player's card-swiping apparatus.15 Q. Okay. Anything else?16 A. On that particular photo, no.17 Q. All right. Turn to Exhibit 9.18 What does that show to you?19 A. That shows the inside of the20 device and the locked portion of the device21 where the circuit board is contained.22 Q. And did you open the cabinet23 where the circuit board is located and

Page 91

1 examine it? 2 A. I opened it, but did not 3 examine it. 4 Q. Okay. And Exhibit 10, what 5 does that show to you? 6 A. That's the circuit board that's 7 in the Photo Number Nine. 8 Q. Okay. And then Exhibit 9 Number 11, what does that show to you?10 A. Those are the Medeco locks that11 I'm projecting are -- one, at least, is a12 knock-off switch.13 Q. But you didn't turn the device14 on to try to figure out and determine whether15 or not it actually functioned as a knock-off16 switch?17 A. That's correct. I did not.18 Q. These are locks, typical locks,19 that appear on gambling devices, are they20 not?21 A. As knock-off switches, yes,22 sir.23 Q. Well, gambling devices have

Page 92

1 locks like this on them, don't they? 2 A. Not in that position. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. And if you look inside, you'll 5 see the two wires connected to terminals on 6 the end of each one of those Medeco locks. 7 Q. Now, what's the purpose of a 8 knock-off switch? 9 A. To remove credits from the10 display meter that the player is reimbursed11 for.12 Q. Okay. And if a player wins a13 jackpot that is over a certain amount, which14 causes the operator to have to generate a15 W-2G, are you familiar with that report?16 A. I believe that's a notification17 to the IRS that they received a certain18 amount of money on a gambling device.19 Q. Okay. And would the operator20 of the facility then use a key or some other21 method to remove the credits that had been22 won by that player who won a jackpot and23 generated a W-2G?


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Page 93

1 A. Which I said before is the 2 knock-off switch. 3 Q. Okay. But in that instance, 4 it's a perfectly legitimate use of a key or 5 knock-off switch to remove the credits, is it 6 not? 7 A. On a gambling device, yes, sir. 8 Q. Okay. Well, no question these 9 are gambling devices, aren't they?10 A. In my opinion, that's correct.11 Q. Okay. Well, Bingo is a12 gambling event, isn't it?13 A. It's a gambling activity,14 that's correct.15 Q. All right. Now, let me ask you16 to look at Exhibit Number 6.17 A. Yes, sir.18 Q. Okay. Do you see that label19 there?20 A. The C260?21 Q. Yes, sir.22 A. Yes, sir.23 Q. And it has a serial number. Do

Page 94

1 you know what serial number that refers to? 2 A. I believe it might be the 3 device itself, but I don't know. I did not 4 check it out. 5 Q. Okay. And then there's a 6 legend that says "labeled by," and you see 7 some initials. Do you see that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And under that, it says10 "cash removed by" and there's some other11 writing. What does that say?12 A. Cash removed by, and then13 you've got a date.14 Q. Well, but it says "cash removed15 by," and then there's some writing. Do you16 see that?17 A. It looks like it's NA, which18 means there probably was no cash in the19 drawer.20 Q. Okay. And then there's a date21 and time, and there's nothing to the right of22 the date and time for the cash removed by, is23 there?

Page 95

1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Okay. So that indicates to you 3 that there was no cash removed from this 4 device? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. I don't know that for sure, 8 because I was not there. And it could have 9 been an oversight of the individual that did10 not note if there was any.11 Q. So you're saying one of the12 agents could have made a mistake in the13 labeling?14 A. No -- well, yes, could have15 made a mistake.16 Q. Okay. Now, the next item you17 examined, is that indicated as number two in18 your notes?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Okay. And that's control C96?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. Okay. Why don't you read for23 us your notes regarding C96?

Page 96

1 A. It has five mechanical meters, 2 coins in, coins out, games won, coins played. 3 Medeco knock-off switch on the right. Bill 4 acceptor, right side. Possible -- 5 Q. Excuse me. It says Medeco on 6 right side, doesn't it? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. And then in parenthesis, 9 it has KO.10 A. That's knock off.11 Q. And that's what you mean by12 knock off?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. Okay. And then what's under15 that?16 A. Bill acceptor, right side.17 Possible card reader. Coin tray. Button18 control -- I'm sorry. Button console. You19 have four blank buttons.20 Q. Have you finished reading?21 A. I want to get the pictures.22 There's four blank buttons on the left. And23 then you have call attendant, cash out,


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Page 97

1 raise, 30 times, express 60, express 90. 2 Q. Can't read your writing? 3 A. Oh, retain play. And then you 4 have maximum bet and play. 5 Q. Okay. Now, which photographs 6 by exhibit number refer to device number two? 7 A. Fourteen. 8 Q. What about 12? 9 A. I'm sorry.10 Q. Is that a different device?11 A. No.12 Q. Okay.13 A. That's the front of the device.14 Thirteen is the top portion of the device.15 And 14 is the key console which contains16 those buttons that I read off before. The17 Exhibit 15 illustrates the mechanical meters,18 which are coins on, coins in, coins out, and19 coins played. And 16 is a photo of the part20 of the circuit board.21 Q. Okay.22 A. And then 17 is the picture of23 the Medeco knock-off switch, possible

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1 knock-off switch. 2 Q. Okay. Yeah. And, again, as 3 with the last device, you weren't able to 4 verify that this was a knock-off switch? 5 A. That is correct. That was 6 based on my experience and knowledge. That 7 is what they usually are. 8 Q. Okay. And you weren't able to 9 determine whether the function is a knock-off10 switch to remove credits after a jackpot or11 some other function?12 A. It wouldn't matter whether it13 was a jackpot or not. It's to remove the14 credits.15 Q. Okay. Any other photographs16 that refer to C96?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Go ahead.19 A. Well, we just did those.20 Q. Okay. I'm asking you: Are21 there any others other than what you just22 told me about?23 A. Oh, no.

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1 Q. Okay. Exhibit Number 18, what 2 does that refer to? Is that another device? 3 A. Yes. That's a -- 4 Q. That's a different one? 5 A. Different device. 6 Q. All right. Well, let's go to 7 the next page in your notes, which I think 8 you've got a number three by. Do you see 9 that?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. Read your notes for me.12 A. Control is C166, which is what13 Photograph 19 indicates. The manufacturer is14 Cole Kepro, K-E-P-R-O. It's a One Cent15 Quincy button console. Call attendant, play,16 30 play, 90, play 150, play 300, play 600.17 Then there's play, select, denomination, and18 pay table and help. It has player card,19 space for bill acceptor, two Medeco locks on20 the right side.21 Q. Okay. And then you've got a22 note. What does that say?23 A. Classic reel, the same as C225,

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1 which is the One Cent Quincy. Also, Cherry 2 Gone Wild, which is C22 -- looks like 6. Has 3 the same configuration as C166. 4 Q. Okay. Now, which of these 5 photographs that we've labeled as exhibits 6 refer to C166? 7 A. That's 18, 19, 20, 21. 8 Q. All right, sir. 9 A. And 22 and 23.10 Q. Okay.11 A. And I believe 24, which12 illustrates the Medeco locks.13 Q. Okay. All right. Do you have14 any photographs of C225?15 A. No. I think I just referenced16 it.17 Q. No, sir. You just referenced18 C166. My question is: Do you have any19 photographs of either a C225 or a C226?20 A. Oh, no. That's the ones I told21 you I referenced that with the Quincy's22 number one, because it's button console is23 identical to the Quincy one, One Cent Quincy.


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1 Q. Let me make sure I understand 2 you. What you're telling me is you made 3 notes about those controlled numbered 4 devices, but you didn't take any photographs 5 or direct anybody to take any photographs of 6 them; is that correct? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. All right. Let's look at Item 9 Number Four. Would you read your notes on10 that for me?11 A. That's 777 Reels of Fire.12 Platinum. Button console is two blank play,13 card reader, bill acceptor, manufactured by14 SGC. And it's E55.15 Q. Okay. And do any of these16 photographs refer to that device?17 A. I believe 25.18 Q. Now, you don't have a control19 number, do you?20 A. 279 -- no. I'm sorry. I21 don't. That one is not.22 Q. So what device does Exhibit23 Number 25 refer to?

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1 A. Classic reels, which is the 2 same as number one, Once Cent Quincy. I did 3 not have photographs of that one, but I did 4 have of C166, which is the same as the one I 5 cited. 6 Q. So Exhibit Number 25 is a 7 photograph of which control number device? 8 A. Twenty-five? 9 Q. No, sir. Look at your exhibit10 number.11 A. Oh, I'm sorry.12 Q. Exhibit Number 25 is a13 photograph of what control number device?14 MR. REAGAN: Are you asking15 about the exhibit that we just16 labeled, the exhibit numbers?17 MR. BOLTON: Uh-huh18 (affirmative response.)19 MR. REAGAN: Exhibit20 Number 25?21 MR. BOLTON: Uh-huh22 (affirmative response).23 MR. REAGAN: Okay.

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1 He's talking about these 2 numbers right here, Exhibit 25. 3 BY MR. BOLTON: 4 Q. We'll get to the others in a 5 minute. Let's start with 25. 6 A. That's what I'm working on. 7 Q. Okay. 8 THE WITNESS: Oh, that's the 9 photo you're missing.10 MR. REAGAN: For the Record,11 there was one photograph that we12 had inadvertently not printed and13 provided counsel. We have those14 now if we want to go ahead and15 provide those to you and mark them16 as exhibits. They may relate to17 some of this testimony.18 MR. BOLTON: We'll mark it19 in just a minute.20 BY MR. BOLTON: 21 Q. My question is -- and let's see22 if we can get this answered, and then we'll23 move on. Do you have in front of you Exhibit

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1 Number 25? 2 A. Yes, I do. 3 Q. Okay. Can you tell me what 4 device that photograph relates to in your 5 notes? 6 A. No. I think it's related to 7 the photograph that is missing. 8 Q. Okay. Well, does Exhibit 25 9 relate to any device in your notes?10 A. As I said before, I believe11 it's related to the one that's missing.12 Q. But we're missing a photograph.13 We're not missing any notes. So my question14 is: Exhibit Number 25 -- make sure you're15 looking at 25.16 A. Yes, I am.17 Q. Okay. -- is it reflected in18 your notes?19 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.20 He's answered that question.21 A. As I said before, in order to22 identify which device it is, I would have to23 look at the photograph that is missing.


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Page 105

1 Q. All right. Let me look at the 2 photograph that's missing. 3 Okay. I'm going to hand you a 4 photograph that was apparently not originally 5 produced, which is Number 32. 6 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 32 7 was marked for identification 8 and is attached hereto.) 9 (The Witness reviewed the10 document.)11 A. Okay.12 Q. Okay. What item number does13 Exhibit 32 refer to?14 A. Control Number B139, which is15 my Number Six, Super Duper Ball.16 Q. Okay. All right. I'm looking17 at right now Item Number Four on your notes.18 Do you see that?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Are there any exhibits or21 photographs that relate to that particular22 device?23 A. There's no photographs, no.

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1 Q. Okay. All right. Let's go to 2 the next one. Let's go to Number Five. Do 3 you see that? It says "Video of Devices" if 4 I'm reading your -- 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Would you read that for 7 me, please? 8 A. Players's card issued, set pin 9 number at cashier's cage. This is an10 observation of the DVD where the UC played11 the device.12 Q. Okay. So this is not a13 separate device you looked at; this is a14 video you looked at, and you took some notes15 on it?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. Okay. Is it one video or is it18 more than one video you were taking notes on19 here under Number Five?20 A. I have indicated only one.21 Q. Okay. Well, you have State22 18138, if I'm reading your notes correctly.23 Do you see that?

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1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. And that's the video you 3 looked at that you took these notes that 4 appear on page three of your notes under Item 5 Number Five? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Would it be fair to say 8 you're describing different devices that you 9 looked at on this DVD?10 A. This would be the same device11 that we talked about previously on the DVD.12 Q. Is it your testimony that the13 DVD 18138 only shows one device, or it shows14 multiple devices?15 A. I'm sorry. Multiple.16 Q. Okay. That was my question.17 And do your notes reflect notes18 on multiple devices as opposed to just one?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Okay. Is one of the devices21 you looked at called Hillbilly Girls?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Okay. And another called

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1 Hotter Than? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And another one called Wild 4 Billy Jack? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. And then we go to page 7 four of your notes. Are these still notes 8 that you took looking at the DVD? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Okay. Would you read what you11 have starting on page four of your notes?12 A. Fifteen reels with images, root13 numbers, et cetera. A Keno player can pick14 one of six games, Traditional, Beat the15 House, Win River, Super Ball, Hillbilly Girl,16 and Snack Shop.17 Q. Okay.18 A. Hotter Than has no waiting for19 additional players below before reel display.20 Q. Now, what does that note21 "waiting for additional players" indicate to22 you?23 A. To me, it's a subterfuge from


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Page 109

1 the standpoint they want the player to 2 believe that there's other players going to 3 be playing before they will initiate the 4 game. 5 Q. Okay. But you didn't do any 6 testing of the software or the source code to 7 determine whether or not that was a lie or 8 accurate, did you? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.10 A. Again, I did not, as I said11 before.12 Q. Okay. All right, sir. Now,13 Number Six says Super Duper something. I14 can't read your note there.15 A. Ball.16 Q. Super Duper Ball, okay. And17 that's control B139?18 A. Yes.19 Q. Okay. Now, which exhibit20 numbers relate to Item Number Six on your21 notes?22 A. Twenty-two, 28, 29.23 Q. Hang on one second. Let me

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1 get -- okay. Twenty-two, 28, 29. 2 A. And 31. 3 Q. All right, sir. 4 A. I'm sorry. Also, 25 and 26 and 5 27. 6 Q. Okay. Let me state them, then. 7 So your testimony is that Pictures 25, 26, 8 27, 28, 29, and 31 relate to Item Number Six 9 on your notes, which is control B139?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. Now, if I look at Item12 Number 25, I see a different control number.13 Don't I see -- well, I don't see any control14 number on 25, actually.15 A. No. But if you look at 25 and16 32, you'll see that the writing on the17 control sticker is identical, as well as the18 number, which indicates that these are the19 same machine.20 Q. Okay. So you think B139 is21 depicted in Exhibit Number 32 as well?22 A. That's correct.23 Q. Okay. And let me, one more

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1 time, read these numbers out so I'll make 2 sure we're straight. You're saying that Item 3 Number Six on your notes is depicted by 4 Exhibits 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, and 32; 5 is that right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. All right. And the game 8 that's referred to in your Item Number Six is 9 Super Duper Ball?10 A. Right.11 Q. Okay. Well, if I look at12 Exhibit Number 28, the name on that is Cash13 Cow, isn't it?14 A. Yes, sir.15 Q. Okay. And it's got control16 Number D279, doesn't it?17 A. B139.18 Q. Are you looking at Exhibit19 Number 28?20 A. Thirty-two?21 Q. No, sir. Twenty-eight.22 A. Yes. That's right. It's 279.23 Q. Okay. And it's called Cash

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1 Cow? 2 A. That's right. 3 Q. It's not Super Duper Ball? 4 A. That particular one is, 5 correct. B139 is -- 6 Q. Hang on. So Exhibit Number 28 7 doesn't have anything to do with your Item 8 Number Six in your notes, does it? Am I 9 correct?10 A. Super Duper Ball is B139. And11 Exhibit Number 28 does not have anything to12 do with Number Six.13 Q. Okay. So I'm going to pull14 that out.15 Now, Exhibit Number 29, does16 that relate to Exhibit 28, or does that17 relate to Item Number Six on your notes?18 A. No. That relates to Item19 Number Six, because what that is, it shows20 the location of the bill acceptor, where it21 would have been.22 Q. Mr. Holmes, I don't want to23 disagree with you, but why don't you put


(28) Pages 109 - 112



Page 113

1 Exhibit Number 28 right next to Exhibit 2 Number 29 for me for a minute. Just hold 3 those in your hands. Do you have those two? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Now, Exhibit Number 28 6 is control Number D279, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That has nothing to do with10 Number 29. It's a separate machine.11 Q. I don't know -- if you just12 answer my questions, I think we'll get to13 this.14 In Exhibit Number 28, the15 control number is D279?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. And there's a number under that18 that says V040740735. Do you see that?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. Okay. Now, if you look at21 Exhibit Number 29, it's manufactured by ECS,22 is it not?23 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And Exhibit Number 28 is 2 manufactured by ECS, is it not? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Okay. And the number on 5 Exhibit 29 immediately above ECS looks like 6 it's V040 something that I can't read. Do 7 you see that? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Okay. But your testimony is10 that Exhibit 28 and Exhibit 29 refer to11 different items, different machines?12 A. The D279 is the Cash Cow.13 Q. And Exhibit 29 is what?14 A. I'm sorry?15 Q. And Exhibit 29 is what?16 A. Is the photograph of the17 interior of the one you just described.18 Q. The Cash Cow?19 A. Well, we don't know for sure20 that that's the Cash Cow.21 Q. Okay.22 A. Twenty-eight is the Cash Cow.23 Q. Okay. Twenty-nine might be the

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1 Cash Cow and might not be? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Okay. All right. Now, Exhibit 4 Number 30, do you see that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Now, what's that a picture of? 7 Is that the Cash Cow? 8 A. I'm not sure. I don't know. 9 Q. Okay. And Exhibit Number 31,10 what is that a picture of?11 A. That's the Cash Cow.12 Q. Okay. And Exhibit Number 32,13 what is that? Is that also the Cash Cow, or14 is that something else?15 MR. REAGAN: You said16 Exhibit Number 32?17 MR. BOLTON: Yes.18 MR. REAGAN: Okay.19 A. B139, which is the Super Duper20 Ball.21 Q. Okay. And that's the one that22 was out of order, because it wasn't produced23 timely?

Page 116

1 A. Right. 2 Q. All right, sir. So I think 3 we've covered all the photographs? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. All right. 6 MR. REAGAN: John, I don't 7 know if this is a good place to 8 stop for lunch. It's about 11:35. 9 Or if you've got an ending point in10 the near future ...11 MR. BOLTON: I'd like to go12 ahead and get at least through the13 notes. And then ...14 MR. REAGAN: Sure.15 BY MR. BOLTON: 16 Q. Now, Item Number Five on your17 notes, do you see that?18 A. Yes.19 Q. And that's Control Number D279?20 MR. REAGAN: Did you say21 Item Number Five or page five?22 MR. BOLTON: Well, that's a23 good point. I think it actually is


(29) Pages 113 - 116



Page 117

1 page number five. There's no Item 2 Number Five. 3 BY MR. BOLTON: 4 Q. Do you see that? 5 A. Yeah. Cash Cow is the ... 6 Q. Okay. Now, is that a device 7 you looked at, or is that on the video? 8 A. No. That's the one I looked 9 at.10 Q. Okay. And would you read your11 notes for that one?12 A. Cash Cow. D279. Down on the13 Farm. Manufacturer ECS. Player card14 acceptor. Bill acceptor. There's a bill15 acceptor space, because there is no bill16 acceptor. Button console, log out, call17 attendant, help, language, select, wage, bet,18 maximum bet, and play.19 Now, the top screen is an20 advertisement. The Medeco lock, I believe,21 is on the right side, is a knock off.22 Q. Okay. And just so I'll be23 clear: The page preceding -- strike that.

Page 118

1 So the Cash Cow that you 2 described on page five is actually a separate 3 device that you looked at; it's not part of 4 the video, correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Okay. And the video is Item 7 Number Five on your notes, which is depicted 8 on page three and partly on page four? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, do you hold11 any licenses or certificates issued by the12 state of Alabama?13 A. No, I don't.14 Q. Okay. And you've never15 designed any Bingo programs, software, or16 algorithms, have you?17 A. That's correct. I have not.18 Q. And I don't see the word19 "Bingo" anywhere on your CV. You've never20 testified in a case about Bingo games, have21 you?22 A. I don't recall. I don't think23 I have.

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1 Q. Okay. And you've never written 2 any report that's referenced in your CV about 3 Bingo games, have you? 4 A. No, I have not. 5 Q. Okay. Now, are you familiar 6 with IGRA? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Okay. It was actually enacted 9 after you retired from the FBI, wasn't it?10 MR. REAGAN: Object to the11 form; and not relevant.12 A. It's possible.13 Q. You don't know when it was14 enacted, do you?15 A. No.16 Q. Okay. Now, your role in this17 case, as I understand your testimony, was18 limited basically to a visual inspection of19 the cabinets that you described and saw20 yesterday?21 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.22 Q. Correct?23 A. As well as the DVD and the

Page 120

1 interior of these devices. Based upon my 2 experience, also. 3 Q. Right. So you looked at the 4 inside and the outside of the cabinets? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Which were not operational? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Okay. And then you also looked 9 at some DVDs?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Okay. Has anybody told you12 that other agents of the State would be doing13 a forensic analysis of the software or the14 source code of these devices?15 A. No, sir.16 Q. Has anybody told you that17 anybody from the State would be doing a18 forensic examination of the software or the19 source code of the servers?20 A. No, sir.21 Q. Have you seen any report22 prepared by anyone on behalf of the State23 related to a forensic examination of the


(30) Pages 117 - 120



Page 121

1 seized devices, including the player stations 2 or the servers? 3 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 4 form. 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. Now, I think you told me 7 earlier that you agree that Bingo is a game 8 of chance? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. It's a form of gambling?11 A. Yes.12 Q. It's a type of a lottery?13 A. It could be construed to be so.14 Q. Okay. In a Bingo game, prizes15 are distributed by a drawing or a lot; isn't16 that right?17 A. That's correct.18 Q. Okay. And the elements of19 gambling are present in a Bingo game, meaning20 prize, chance, and consideration?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Okay. Now, I asked you last23 time about elements or characteristics of a

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1 Bingo game. And I guess the first one I 2 asked you about was: Was Bingo a game that 3 required multiple players? 4 A. In my opinion, yes. 5 Q. Okay. I think you also told me 6 last time that that might be a house rule; in 7 other words, it could be Bingo games that 8 were played with only one player? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.10 A. I believe that I answered that11 the location of the Bingo game probably would12 not allow such an activity to take place.13 Q. Okay. Would not allow what14 kind of activity to take place?15 A. One player.16 Q. Okay. Would you agree with me17 that Bingo is played with a Bingo card?18 A. Yes.19 Q. And in a Bingo game, players20 match predesignated arrangements of numbers?21 A. What do you mean by22 "predesignated"? There are patterns that are23 recognized as winning combinations on the

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1 card, if they occur. 2 Q. And those patterns are 3 designated before the player begins to play? 4 A. That's because it's understood 5 that a Bingo game has these patterns. 6 Q. Right. 7 A. Nothing else. 8 Q. Okay. So it's a predesignated 9 pattern of numbers?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Okay. And the first person to12 cover that pattern wins the game?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. Now, would you agree15 with me, Mr. Holmes, that there are different16 ways to play Bingo?17 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.18 A. Not if you have a definition of19 what Bingo is. There's only one way to play20 it.21 Q. And how is that?22 A. A caller. A draw, some method23 of drawing the number. Players; multiple

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1 players; and announcements of whether there's 2 a winner or not. 3 Q. And can the drawing of the 4 balls, the Bingo balls, be done 5 electronically? 6 A. Yes, they could. 7 Q. Okay. And can the display of 8 the balls to the players on a Bingo board be 9 done electronically?10 A. Yes, they could.11 Q. Okay. Have you seen Bingo12 games played on handheld devices like iPads?13 A. No.14 Q. Have you seen Bingo games15 played on computers?16 A. No.17 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with18 the types of Bingo games that are played at19 Native American facilities in Alabama and20 elsewhere?21 MR. REAGAN: Object to the22 form and not relevant.23 A. Well, the only one that I would


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1 be able to recognize is what the machines 2 that are in question are supposed to 3 illustrate and -- 4 Q. No, sir. My question is: Are 5 you familiar with the type of Bingo games 6 that are played at Native American facilities 7 in Alabama and elsewhere across the United 8 States? 9 MR. REAGAN: Same objection.10 A. As I said, the machines that11 were in question illustrate what method of,12 quote, Bingo is played on Indian13 reservations.14 Q. And I guess I don't understand15 that answer. Can you tell me what you're16 talking about?17 A. Yeah. The Indian reservations18 that play Bingo, electronic Bingo, use these19 type of devices.20 Q. Oh, okay. So what you're21 telling me is these games that you looked at22 in this case and saw a video of are just like23 the electronic Bingo games that are played at

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1 Native American facilities? 2 MR. REAGAN: Object to form 3 and relevance. 4 Q. Is that right? 5 A. I believe that's correct, yes. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. BOLTON: This may be a 8 good time to stop. 9 MR. REAGAN: Okay.10 (Whereupon, a lunch break was11 taken.)12 BY MR. BOLTON: 13 Q. Mr. Holmes, let me ask you just14 a few more questions and see if we can get15 through this.16 Do you agree that Bingo can be17 played on electronic devices lawfully in18 Alabama?19 A. I don't know about lawfully,20 but yes, they can be played on electronic21 devices.22 Q. All right. But if there's a23 constitutional amendment that allows Bingo in

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1 a particular jurisdiction, would you agree 2 that Bingo could be played lawfully in those 3 jurisdictions on electronic devices? 4 A. If the law says so, yes. 5 Q. Okay. And I think we talked 6 about some of the characteristics of Bingo 7 games and slot machines earlier. And would 8 you agree with me, Mr. Holmes, that in a slot 9 machine that a player is playing against the10 house?11 A. Yes.12 Q. Okay. And in a Bingo game,13 more often than not, that a player is playing14 against other players?15 A. Yes.16 Q. Okay. I think there's some17 jurisdictions that allow you to have18 standalone Bingo games. Are you familiar19 with those?20 A. No.21 Q. Okay. How much money have you22 been paid for your services in this case,23 sir?

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1 A. Nothing yet. 2 Q. Okay. Have you sent a bill 3 yet? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. And how much did you 6 bill them for? 7 A. Including expenses, 4800. 8 Q. Was that in this case or was 9 that in the other case?10 A. The other case.11 Q. Okay. Have you sent any bills12 in this case yet?13 A. No.14 Q. Okay. Other than the State of15 Alabama, have you ever been paid by any other16 entity, group, or individual related to this17 case?18 A. No.19 Q. Mr. Holmes, we talked about20 this last time. What I've handed you is21 Exhibit Number 33, which is a portion of the22 Alabama code on gambling offenses. Do you23 see that?


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Page 129

1 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 33 2 was marked for identification 3 and is attached hereto.) 4 (The Witness reviewed the 5 document.) 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. It's Section 13A-12-20? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And what I want to do is direct10 your attention to the definition of a11 gambling device under Alabama law. Do you12 see that? It's number five.13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. Take a minute to read15 that.16 (The Witness reviewed the17 document.)18 A. Yes.19 Q. Would you agree with me,20 Mr. Holmes, that under that definition, a21 paper Bingo card is a gambling device under22 Alabama law?23 MR. REAGAN: Object.

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1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And a cardboard Bingo card is 3 also a gambling device under Alabama law? 4 MR. REAGAN: Object to form. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And an electronic or digital 7 version of a Bingo card would also be a 8 gambling device under Alabama law? 9 A. That, I'm not sure about. I10 don't know.11 Q. Okay. So an electronic or12 video Bingo card would not be a gambling13 device?14 A. I told you I don't know.15 Q. Okay. All right. Would you16 agree with me that an ink dauber where you17 mark your cards in a paper game is a gambling18 device?19 MR. REAGAN: Object to the20 form.21 A. It can be construed as a22 gambling device, yes.23 Q. And the Bingo ball hopper, or

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1 squirrel cages we call it sometimes, where 2 the balls are drawn from, under that 3 definition is a gambling device, is it not? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Bingo balls would be 6 gambling devices? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. A Bingo blower would be a 9 gambling device?10 A. Yes.11 Q. The Bingo board where the balls12 are displayed to the players, that would be a13 gambling device?14 A. Yes.15 Q. Okay. As part of your16 engagement in this case, Mr. Holmes, were you17 asked to determine how Bingo was played in18 2003, or as of 2003?19 A. No.20 Q. Okay. Either in Alabama or the21 United States?22 A. No.23 Q. Do you have an opinion, as we

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1 sit here today, about how Bingo was played in 2 Alabama or the United States in 2003? 3 A. I would assume it would be the 4 same as it is today -- 5 Q. I don't mean -- 6 A. -- in my opinion. 7 Q. No. I don't mean assume. 8 Do you have an opinion? Do you 9 have personal knowledge about the way Bingo10 was played in Alabama in 2003?11 MR. REAGAN: Object to the12 form. And the Witness was trying13 to answer the question.14 A. No, I do not.15 Q. Okay. And because you don't16 have personal knowledge of the way Bingo was17 played in Alabama in 2003, you're not18 offering, in this case, any opinions about19 the method of playing Bingo in 2003 in20 Alabama?21 A. Yes, I am.22 Q. Oh, you are. In 2003?23 A. Yes.


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1 Q. Okay. Did you ever watch a 2 Bingo game in 2003 in Alabama? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. Did you ever watch a -- 5 strike that. 6 Have you ever been to any kind 7 of Bingo hall in Alabama? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Whether it was 2003 or '93 or10 2014?11 A. That's correct. No.12 Q. Okay. All right, sir. Were13 you asked to determine what types of14 electronic Bingo were available for play in15 Alabama in 2003?16 A. No.17 Q. Do you know what types -- of18 your own personal knowledge, what types of19 electronic Bingo were available for play in20 Alabama in 2003?21 A. A true electronic Bingo, no.22 Q. Okay. Were you asked to23 determine the state of the law regarding

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1 Bingo in 2003? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Would you agree with me, 4 Mr. Holmes, that if an electronic Bingo game 5 satisfies the six points of the Cornerstone 6 test, that it is lawful for play in Alabama? 7 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 8 form. 9 A. If the law specifies that those10 six points are, in effect, in operation -- or11 application, rather, yes.12 Q. Okay. Thank you. Are you13 aware that Macon County has a constitutional14 amendment allowing Bingo?15 A. No.16 Q. You've not been provided that,17 have you?18 A. I'm not sure. But I think in19 the initial binder that I got, it might have20 been mentioned, but I don't know that.21 Q. Now, you told me that you22 didn't get a binder in this case, that you23 got a binder in the other case?

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1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Okay. So you haven't gotten a 3 copy of the Macon County Bingo amendment in 4 this case, have you? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Okay. Has it been alluded to 7 that Macon County has a constitutional 8 amendment allowing Bingo? 9 A. In this case?10 Q. Yes, sir.11 A. No.12 Q. Okay. You're aware that you're13 testifying about Bingo games in Macon County,14 are you not?15 A. I am now.16 Q. Okay. And did you just learn17 it from what I told you?18 A. Yes.19 Q. You haven't been told that20 before?21 A. No.22 Q. Okay. Do you know D.C. Ladner?23 A. Yes. I have met him. I don't

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1 know him well. 2 Q. Do you know that he is an 3 engineer? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And do you know that he's the 6 former head of the testing lab for the 7 Mississippi Gaming Commission? 8 A. I know he had a supervisory 9 position, but I didn't know which one.10 Q. Okay. Are you aware that the11 State of Alabama hired Mr. Ladner to serve as12 an expert in at least one of the Bingo cases13 in Alabama?14 MR. REAGAN: Objection;15 relevance.16 A. No.17 MR. BOLTON: Are you saying18 Mr. Ladner is irrelevant?19 MR. REAGAN: I said I'm20 objecting that Mr. Ladner's21 testimony in this matter is not22 relevant, because he is not23 appearing as a witness.


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1 BY MR. BOLTON: 2 Q. Let me ask a couple of 3 questions about Mr. Ladner. 4 If Mr. Ladner testified in 5 another case that one would have to examine 6 the software and servers of a machine similar 7 to the ones you looked at in this case in 8 order to determine whether a machine was 9 operating Bingo or not, would you agree or10 disagree with him?11 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.12 A. I disagree.13 Q. Okay. And if Mr. Ladner14 testified that one would have to analyze the15 software of a machine similar to the ones you16 looked at in this case in order to determine17 whether the prizes are awarded based upon18 matching patterns on a Bingo card, would you19 agree or disagree with him?20 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.21 And it's not relevant to these22 proceedings.23 A. Disagree.

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1 Q. Okay. And if Mr. Ladner 2 testified that one would have to analyze the 3 software of machines similar to the ones 4 seized in this case in order to determine 5 whether or not the games are being played on 6 a device conforming to numbers or symbols 7 selected at random, would you agree or 8 disagree with him? 9 MR. REAGAN: Same objection.10 A. Disagree.11 Q. Okay. If Mr. Ladner testified12 that one could not simply look at a machine13 and determine whether the movement of the14 Bingo balls to the card had any relation to15 the winning or losing of the game or whether16 the reels affected the outcome of the Bingo17 game, would you agree or disagree with him?18 MR. REAGAN: Same objection.19 A. I'm kind of confused. You say20 reels of a Bingo game. There are no reels in21 a Bingo game.22 Q. You've never seen any reels on23 a Bingo game?

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1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Well, the State's witnesses 3 have testified that they played Bingo games 4 at these Native American facilities we talked 5 about earlier, and that they had reels on 6 them. You've never seen those yourself? 7 MR. REAGAN: Objection. 8 That's misleading, and it's not 9 relevant.10 A. The point is, is that if11 there's reels, it's not a Bingo game.12 Q. Okay. And that's your13 testimony, and that's your opinion?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Okay. And you can do that by16 just walking up to the game and looking at17 it, right; you can tell whether they have18 reels or not?19 A. No. You've got to be able to,20 number one, based upon my experience and21 number of machines I've examined, of which22 some were claimed to be Bingo were not,23 because they had reels.

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1 Q. But what I'm asking you, 2 though, is: You can walk up to one of these 3 devices and see whether or not they have 4 reels just by looking at it, can't you? 5 A. Usually, that's correct. 6 Q. Okay. And I could do it just 7 as well as you could do it, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And the Judge could do it just10 as well as you could do it, could he not?11 A. Probably.12 Q. Any layperson could walk up to13 one of these machines and see whether or not14 they had reels on them just by looking at it?15 A. Yes, that's true.16 Q. Okay. I've got one more Ladner17 question.18 If Mr. Ladner testified that he19 would have to extract data from the machines20 and conduct a forensic analysis of that data21 in order to determine whether or not the22 Bingo balls were drawn at random and whether23 or not the game was won or lost based upon


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Page 141

1 matching patterns on a Bingo card, would you 2 agree or disagree? 3 MR. REAGAN: Object to form 4 and object as not being relevant to 5 these proceedings. 6 A. I'd disagree. 7 Q. Okay. Now, you told me that 8 these games, in your opinion, only take one 9 player to play them, true?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. And I think you told me12 that part of the reason for your testimony13 that they only took one player was because14 when you looked at the games on the video or15 the CD, that you only saw one game being16 played at a time?17 A. That's part of the reason, yes,18 sir.19 Q. Okay. Did you do any sort of20 testing of the software or the server to21 determine whether or not these games played22 with one player or multiple players?23 MR. REAGAN: Object to the

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1 form. It's been asked and 2 answered. 3 A. As stated before, no, I did not 4 examine the program or the server, because 5 it's not necessary to determine what the 6 machine does. 7 Q. Okay. And you can tell whether 8 or not a game takes one player or multiple 9 players just by looking at it?10 A. Based on past experience, yes.11 Q. Okay. Past experience with the12 Bingo games?13 A. With slot machines,14 electronic --15 Q. Okay. And a slot machine, it16 only takes one player, doesn't it?17 A. Well, electronic slot machines.18 However --19 Q. Is that right?20 A. No. That's incorrect.21 Q. No. Hang on. Let me --22 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.23 Q. Let me get my question.

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1 MR. REAGAN: He's trying to 2 answer your question. He's trying 3 to answer it. 4 Q. Does a slot machine take one 5 player or multiple players to play? 6 A. There is one indication in a 7 casino, the legal casinos, where they have a 8 bank of machines, and more than one player 9 plays these machines, and a portion of the10 money that they play goes into the jackpot,11 which all of the players would share if they12 won.13 Q. But when I'm playing that slot14 machine in this casino -- and we'll ask you15 about where it is in a minute -- am I playing16 against the house, against the machine, or am17 I playing against other players?18 A. You're playing against the19 house.20 Q. Okay. Now, where is this bank21 of slot machines that you're talking about?22 A. Most of your legal casinos have23 it. Atlantic City, Nevada, Massachusetts, I

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1 believe it is, Canada, they all have them. 2 Q. Okay. So you're saying that a 3 prize may be contributed to by different slot 4 machines? 5 A. By the players, yes. 6 Q. Okay. But even in those slot 7 machines, the player is playing against the 8 device or the house, not other players? 9 A. That's correct.10 Q. Okay. And I don't want to11 paraphrase your testimony, but if I12 understand what you said just a minute ago,13 the principal basis for your opinion that14 these are slot machines is that you saw reels15 on them, and Bingo machines don't have reels16 on them?17 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.18 Q. Is that correct?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. Okay. Let me show you what21 I've marked as Exhibit Number 34, which is a22 copy of the amendment authorizing Bingo in23 Macon County.


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1 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 34 2 was marked for identification 3 and is attached hereto.) 4 (The Witness reviewed the 5 document.) 6 Q. And if I understand your 7 earlier testimony, you've never seen 8 Amendment 744 before right now when I handed 9 it to you; is that correct?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Okay.12 MR. BOLTON: Let's take a13 few minutes. I may be just about14 through.15 MR. REAGAN: Okay.16 (Whereupon, a brief recess was17 taken.)18 BY MR. BOLTON: 19 Q. Mr. Holmes, Exhibit 4 is notes20 that we've been provided in this case.21 That's in your handwriting, true?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Okay. And these are notes you

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1 took yesterday during the time that you 2 looked at some machines and you looked at two 3 videos, correct? 4 A. Looked at what? 5 Q. You looked at two videos, two 6 DVDs? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Okay. Now, you've only made 9 notes on one video that I see; is that right?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. You didn't take any12 notes on the other one?13 A. There were only two DVDs. And14 they were running pretty close to each other,15 so I didn't separate notes from one to the16 other.17 Q. Okay. But the only DVD that18 you've listed on your notes is State 18138;19 is that correct?20 A. That's correct. But it also --21 I failed to list it, but I did look at the22 other one also.23 Q. I know. But you didn't take

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1 any notes of that one, did you? 2 A. They're included in there. 3 Q. Oh, so you think there are some 4 notes on the other DVD that are included on 5 Exhibit 4? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Okay. Do you have any other 8 notes anywhere about your look at the devices 9 that you looked at yesterday?10 A. No.11 Q. Okay. This is all the notes?12 A. That's correct.13 Q. All the notes on the looking at14 the games and the looking at the DVDs?15 A. Yes.16 Q. Okay. Now, are you proficient17 in any computer languages like Fortran or18 Basic or --19 A. No, I'm not.20 Q. Okay. Do you know what21 computer languages these devices are based22 on?23 A. No.

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1 MR. BOLTON: That's all I 2 have. 3 EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. REAGAN: 5 Q. I have a few questions for you, 6 Mr. Holmes. I'm reaching over to get Exhibit 7 Number 4 that Mr. Bolton just referred to. 8 And these are your notes that we've been 9 talking about that you took. Is it fair to10 say that this is your shorthand writing of11 things that you observed?12 MR. BOLTON: Object to the13 form; objection to leading.14 A. Yes.15 Q. Is everything that you observed16 documented in these notes?17 A. Not everything, no.18 Q. And when you were making these19 notes, were they made in a quick fashion, or20 did you take your time and really write out21 what you were looking at?22 MR. BOLTON: Object to the23 form; object to leading.


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1 A. No. It was quick. And 2 information that I did not put down was stuff 3 like serial numbers and that sort of stuff, 4 which was not pertinent at the time. 5 Q. Do you sometimes, when you take 6 notes, misspell certain words or write them 7 in such a way that you might not can 8 recognize exactly the word that you wrote 9 down?10 A. Yes. When I write fast, I11 sometimes make hieroglyphics, which I do not12 know how to interpret.13 Q. Mr. Bolton earlier got you to14 read on Exhibit 4, which is your notes, the15 top part. Could you read that again for us?16 A. Warehouse, 4401 Northern17 Boulevard, Montgomery, Alabama, 36110.18 Q. Are all of those words spelled19 correctly?20 A. No.21 Q. And why is that?22 A. Because I just wrote what it23 sounded like.

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1 Q. Earlier, we were talking about 2 your visit to the warehouse and the time that 3 you arrived and the time that you left. Let 4 me ask you this: When did you travel to 5 Alabama? 6 A. Can I refer to my notes? 7 Q. If you have notes you can refer 8 to, sure. But before you refer to any notes, 9 on what day did you travel to Alabama?10 A. On the 6th.11 Q. That was yesterday?12 A. Yes.13 Q. And from what airport did you14 depart -- or did you fly or did you drive?15 A. Flew.16 Q. And from what airport did you17 depart?18 A. DCA, Washington, D.C.19 Q. What time zone is Washington,20 D.C. in?21 A. Central, I believe.22 Q. Is it central?23 A. I think. Well, there's an hour

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1 difference in time, here and there. 2 Q. Okay. When you arrived in 3 Alabama, did you adjust your watch to reflect 4 the time zone in Alabama? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. And did you record the 7 time that you arrived in Alabama and the time 8 that you went out to the warehouse on any 9 notes?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Do you have those notes in your12 possession?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. Could you please refer15 to those notes, and could you tell me at what16 time did you arrive in Montgomery?17 A. 10:00.18 Q. Now, is that 10:00 Alabama time19 or 10:00 Washington time?20 A. Washington time.21 Q. Okay. And what's the next item22 on your timeline?23 A. Exam began at 10. And then we

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1 had a conference at 12:00 at your office, 2 which ended at 2:00. And then we went back 3 to the warehouse and continued the exam of 4 the machines. And that ended at 4:15 p.m. 5 Q. Okay. If you had earlier 6 testified today that you had arrived at the 7 warehouse or maybe left the warehouse at a 8 different time as reflected in those notes, 9 which would be correct, your earlier10 testimony or what those notes reflect?11 MR. BOLTON: Object to form.12 Object to leading; asked and13 answered.14 Q. You can answer.15 A. The notes reflect the true16 information.17 Q. Okay.18 MR. REAGAN: I would like to19 make a copy of those notes and20 enter them as an exhibit, if you21 don't mind.22 MR. BOLTON: Well, let me23 see it.


(38) Pages 149 - 152



Page 153

1 MR. REAGAN: Sure. 2 (Whereupon, an off-the-Record 3 discussion was held.) 4 BY MR. REAGAN: 5 Q. Mr. Holmes, before I began 6 asking my questions, Mr. Bolton ended by 7 asking if there were any other notes 8 related -- 9 MR. REAGAN: Well, I'll tell10 you what, Ms. Baker, could you11 please read the last question that12 Mr. Bolton asked regarding notes to13 Mr. Holmes? Because I don't want14 to mischaracterize what Mr. Bolton15 said.16 (Whereupon, an off-the-Record17 conversation was held.)18 MR. REAGAN: Thank you. You19 do not need to read that back.20 Thank you.21 Q. Mr. Holmes, in response to22 Mr. Bolton's question about did you have any23 notes about the inspection of the machines or

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1 looking at the machines, et cetera, you 2 replied no. But you just referred to notes. 3 Could you please explain why you responded 4 no? And we have notes now. 5 A. The fact is that I assumed that 6 he was asking about notes that referred to 7 the case. My schedule of arrival and other 8 activities when I arrived here had nothing to 9 do with the case. So that's why I said I did10 not have any other notes.11 Q. Okay. And were the notes that12 are being copied now, were those notes made13 yesterday?14 A. No. They were made as the15 activity occurred, such as arriving,16 examination, conference, et cetera.17 Q. And those were made yesterday18 when all of that occurred, correct?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. And did you amend or modify or21 add to those notes in any way today at all?22 A. I just added on the bottom,23 8:30 conference.

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1 Q. Okay. And 8:30 conference 2 means? 3 A. Here. 4 Q. Today, deposition? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, I'd like to 7 ask you a few questions about Defendants' 8 Exhibit Number 2, which is the Notice of 9 State's Rule 26 Expert Disclosure. And I10 believe Mr. Bolton had asked you about this11 earlier in the deposition. Do you recall12 those questions?13 A. Yes.14 Q. And correct me if I'm wrong,15 but I believe you indicated that you had not16 seen this document before it was filed by the17 State; is that correct?18 A. I believe that's correct.19 Q. Did you have discussions with20 anyone over the telephone before this was21 filed by the State, to your recollection?22 A. I believe when I was first23 contacted by your office, it might have been

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1 mentioned, but I don't recall. 2 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, throughout 3 this deposition, we've referred to, of 4 course, this case that we're here about 5 today, and we've also referred to the other 6 case, which is the case that you were deposed 7 in a few weeks ago here in this building. Do 8 you recall that? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Okay. And Mr. Bolton was the11 attorney, or one of the attorneys, that took12 your deposition in the other case, correct?13 A. Yes.14 Q. But you understand that this15 matter is a different case from the case16 previously, correct?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Okay. And in the previous19 deposition, you had testified that you had20 received a packet of information from this21 office; is that correct?22 A. Yes.23 Q. And did you also testify --


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Page 157

1 well, let me ask you this: Did you receive a 2 cover letter in the mail from this office 3 when that packet of information arrived? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. I'd for you to look at 6 Exhibit Number 36. And do you recognize 7 Exhibit 36? 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 36 9 was marked for identification10 and is attached hereto.)11 (The Witness reviewed the12 document.)13 A. Yes.14 Q. And what is that?15 A. It's a list of items that were16 supposedly submitted to me prior to accepting17 the case.18 Q. Okay. And, earlier, you19 testified that you had a meeting with me, I20 believe you testified, in Baltimore --21 A. That's correct.22 Q. -- sometime after you received23 a packet of information; is that correct?

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1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And when the meeting occurred 3 in Baltimore, were you presented with 4 additional legal materials to review in these 5 cases? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. On Number 6, on Exhibit 8 Number 36 is a case -- and I'll let you read 9 what Number 6 says there.10 A. Barber versus Cornerstone.11 Q. I'm going to turn to page 25 of12 that case and place that in your hand. Are13 you familiar with the portion of that case14 that's depicted there on page 25 with the15 numbered paragraphs beginning with one and16 ending with Paragraph Number Six?17 A. Yes. I've read those before.18 And that was during our meeting.19 Q. Okay. And for the Record,20 could you please read the number one21 paragraph?22 A. Each player uses one or more23 cards with spaces arranged in five columns

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1 and five rows with an alphanumeric or similar 2 designation assigned to each space. 3 Q. During your review of the 4 videos yesterday in this office and during 5 your review and inspection of the machines 6 yesterday at the warehouse, did you at any 7 time see Bingo cards? 8 A. There were replicas of a Bingo 9 card on some of the devices in the upper10 left-hand corner and in the lower right-hand11 corner.12 Q. And what do you mean by replica13 of a card?14 A. It was a picture of a card with15 numbers on it.16 Q. Were there any paper cards?17 A. No. It was electronic.18 Q. And if you could, please, read19 number two for us.20 A. Alphanumeric or similar21 designations are randomly drawn and announced22 one by one.23 Q. During your review of the two

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1 videos marked State 18138 and State 18151, at 2 any time did you see or hear anyone announce 3 numbers being drawn one by one? 4 A. No. 5 Q. And during your review of the 6 machines yesterday, did you see any 7 indications that in the playing of these 8 games that numbers were announced one by one? 9 A. No. None were announced.10 Q. Could you please read number11 three?12 A. In order to play, each player13 must pay attention to the values announced.14 If one of the values matches a value on one15 or more of the player's cards, the player16 must physically act by marking his or her17 card accordingly.18 Q. During your review of the19 videos in this case and the machines that are20 at issue in this matter, at any time did you21 ever see the human player required to22 physically mark a Bingo card?23 A. No, I did not.


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Page 161

1 Q. During your review of the 2 videos and the machines in this matter, did 3 you determine whether it was even possible 4 for the player to daub or mark their card 5 after a number was called? 6 A. There was no vehicle by which 7 they could do that. 8 Q. Could you please read number 9 four?10 A. A player can fail to pay proper11 attention to the properly marked -- excuse12 me -- or to properly mark his or her card and13 thereby miss an opportunity to be declared a14 winner.15 Q. During your review of the16 evidence in this case, the two videos that17 were discussed, and based on your inspection18 of the machines, did you determine whether or19 not a player had to pay attention to play20 these games?21 A. Yes. Because if a player does22 not mark or daub the number called, like it23 says, it would not result in a winning

Page 162

1 combination. However, in the video devices, 2 that would be done by the computer, so the 3 player would not miss a number called. 4 Q. Okay. And have you -- well, 5 okay. Well, let's read number five, if you 6 don't mind, please. 7 A. A player must recognize that 8 his or her card has a Bingo, i.e., a 9 predetermined pattern of matching values,10 and, in turn, announce to the other players11 and the announcer that this is the case12 before any other player does so.13 Q. During your review of the14 videos in this case and your inspection of15 the machines at issue in this matter, did you16 determine whether or not the player has to17 announce Bingo or even know the predetermined18 winning pattern in order to win on these19 machines?20 MR. BOLTON: Object to the21 form.22 A. No. They may know what the23 pattern is, but there was no vehicle by which

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1 to make an announcement. 2 Q. During your examination of the 3 machines and the review of the video, was the 4 player required to know a predetermined 5 pattern in order to win? 6 A. I'm going to hedge on this and 7 say that not necessarily, because if the 8 computer generates the number and they're 9 indicated as being on the card, the player10 doesn't have to know. The computer will11 recognize the winning combination.12 Q. Okay. And in your review of13 the videos in this case and in your14 inspection of the machines, how quick were15 the players playing this game?16 A. Several seconds.17 Q. How many seconds?18 A. Ten, 15.19 Q. Were the players required to20 pay attention to the screen of what you21 observed in the videos in order to play the22 games?23 A. Yes.

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1 Q. How so? 2 A. So they can mark the cards or 3 the symbol if it occurred on the card. 4 Q. Okay. And how did they mark 5 the card? 6 A. By touching the screen. 7 Q. Okay. And were there also 8 buttons on the consoles of these machines 9 that you inspected yesterday?10 A. Yes.11 Q. And in the videos you observed,12 did you observe officers or undercover agents13 touching the buttons to play the machines, on14 the console?15 A. Yes.16 Q. And they were not required to17 touch the replica of a card on a screen; is18 that correct?19 A. That's correct. I did not20 observe them doing so.21 MR. REAGAN: We have no22 further questions at this time.23 Thank you.


(41) Pages 161 - 164



Page 165

1 EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. BOLTON: 3 Q. You told me earlier, I believe, 4 Mr. Holmes, that the DVDs that you reviewed 5 in this case are the ones depicted in Exhibit 6 Number 3 to your deposition; is that correct? 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. Okay. And the first time you 9 looked at those DVDs was yesterday?10 A. Yes, I believe that's correct.11 Q. The first time you got them --12 A. Was yesterday.13 Q. Was yesterday, okay. And if14 you got any other DVDs earlier, you didn't15 look at them, did you?16 A. They were for another case.17 Q. Okay. All right. So the DVDs18 for this case, which are reflected here in19 Exhibit 3, you got them yesterday, and you20 looked at them yesterday multiple times,21 correct?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Reagan also

Page 166

1 asked you about your notes. You know, I had 2 asked you if you had any other notes, and we 3 got into that issue. And he also asked you 4 if your notes were a short form of your 5 examination -- or your look, what you call 6 it, not an examination; is that right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. What did you leave out? 9 A. I told you -- or rather I said10 before that I did not write down serial11 numbers. I did not write down origin of the12 different computer chips, which I usually do13 on an exam.14 Q. Okay. Did you leave out15 anything that was material besides the16 serial numbers or the origin of the computer17 chips?18 A. Not in my mind.19 Q. Okay. All right. And do you20 have any notes anywhere that reflect the21 serial numbers or the computer chip22 information? Do you have that anywhere?23 A. No.

Page 167

1 Q. Okay. So you can't tell us 2 about that today, can you? 3 A. No. 4 Q. And I'm not going to hear about 5 it at trial, am I? 6 A. Well, I don't know. 7 Q. Okay. Well, you can't tell me 8 about it today, can you? 9 A. No.10 Q. Okay. You don't have any notes11 on it?12 A. No.13 Q. Okay. You don't have any14 memory of it?15 A. I do not of the numbers16 themselves, but of the different components17 of what's there.18 Q. Okay. Can you tell me the19 serial numbers of those devices?20 A. I said no.21 Q. Okay. Can you tell me the22 origin of the computer chips?23 A. No.

Page 168

1 Q. Okay. You said a minute ago 2 that you didn't see the agent on the 3 undercover video daub, claim, or announce 4 when he played the games, or at least one of 5 the games? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Do you know whether he 8 won or lost that game? 9 A. I know he won one, but I don't10 know about the rest.11 Q. Okay. And you don't have to12 claim if you lose, do you?13 A. No.14 Q. Okay. You don't have to15 announce if you lose, do you?16 A. No.17 Q. Okay. I think Mr. Reagan is18 concerned that you got confused on your times19 yesterday, so we've got these notes, Exhibit20 Number 35. Do you have those available to21 you?22 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 3523 was marked for identification


(42) Pages 165 - 168



Page 169

1 and is attached hereto.) 2 A. I have my original here. 3 Q. Well, let's use the one here. 4 Now, is Exhibit Number 35 all in your 5 handwriting? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. And some of it is in 8 blue ink and some of it is in black ink? 9 A. That's because I carry several10 pens, and I don't always take out the same11 one.12 Q. Okay.13 MR. REAGAN: And let the14 Record reflect the Witness just15 removed three pens from his pocket16 that appear to be blue and black17 ink.18 Q. Was one of them a pencil?19 A. No.20 Q. Okay. What does RES stand for?21 A. Residence.22 Q. Okay. So did you leave your23 residence at 4:15?

Page 170

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. And then you left the 3 airport at 6 a.m.? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. And you arrived in 6 Atlanta at 7:35? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. Did you arrive at Gate 9 D34?10 A. No. That's the one I departed11 from for Montgomery.12 Q. Okay. What gate did you arrive13 in Atlanta on?14 A. I have no idea.15 Q. Okay. And it says you arrived16 in Montgomery at 10 a.m.?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Okay. Do you have your ticket19 with you?20 A. No.21 Q. Where is that?22 A. In my luggage at the hotel.23 Q. And how did you get from the

Page 171

1 airport to the motel? 2 A. I was picked up -- you mean the 3 hotel? 4 Q. Yes, sir. 5 A. I was picked up by Gene. 6 Q. Gene? 7 A. Sisson. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. Oh, and Sonny.10 Q. Okay.11 THE WITNESS: I didn't want12 to leave you out.13 MR. REAGAN: Thanks.14 Q. And what time did you arrive at15 the hotel -- well, let me ask you this: Did16 you go from the airport to the hotel?17 A. No.18 Q. Okay. Where did you go?19 A. To the warehouse.20 Q. Okay. So you went from the21 airport to the warehouse?22 A. Yes. We stopped and picked up23 a cup of coffee.

Page 172

1 Q. Okay. Where did you stop? 2 A. Waffle House. 3 Q. And what time did you arrive at 4 the warehouse? 5 A. 10:00. 6 Q. You told me you arrived in 7 Montgomery at 10:00. 8 A. It's pretty close. I don't 9 have the time separated as to when I arrived10 in Montgomery.11 Q. Okay. So you don't know how12 long it took you to get from the airport to13 the warehouse?14 A. No. About 10, 15 minutes.15 Q. Okay. And then it looks like16 you began looking at the machines at some17 point. And then you had a noon conference at18 the office. Was that back here?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Okay. What time did you leave21 the warehouse?22 A. I've got 10:00, so ...23 Q. So you left the --


(43) Pages 169 - 172



Page 173

1 A. I'm sorry. 12:00. 2 Q. Well, it says 12:00 conference. 3 A. Yeah. And that's when it 4 started at the office. And ended at 2:00. 5 Q. Okay. Well, what time did you 6 leave the warehouse to come back to the 7 office? 8 A. Well, I've got 12:00 here. 9 Q. Okay. So you left the10 warehouse at 12:00?11 A. Yes.12 Q. And came back to the office?13 A. Yes.14 Q. What time did you start your15 meeting?16 A. I don't recall. It was not too17 long after that.18 Q. Did you have lunch?19 A. No.20 Q. Lunch brought in?21 A. No.22 Q. They didn't feed you?23 A. I usually don't have lunch.

Page 174

1 Q. Now, what does it say under 2 office? 3 A. Oh, ended 2:00. 4 Q. End 2:00. So the meeting at 5 the office ended at 2:00? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. Okay. And then it says under 8 that, 2:00 exam MA? 9 A. Right.10 Q. What does that mean?11 A. We resumed examining the12 machines at approximately two.13 Q. Okay. But you had to travel14 from here back to the warehouse?15 A. That's correct.16 Q. You didn't write that time17 down?18 A. No, I did not.19 Q. Okay. And then you finished20 looking at the machines at 4:00 -- or 4:15?21 A. 4:15.22 Q. Okay. And then you arrived at23 the hotel and 4:30?

Page 175

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. What hotel did you stay 3 at? 4 A. Renaissance. 5 Q. Renaissance? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Okay. 8 MR. REAGAN: State rate. 83 9 bucks a night.10 Q. And then it says -- I see a11 date, 8/7/14. That's today?12 A. That's correct.13 Q. 8:30, it says something depo.14 What does that mean?15 A. Started. Started depo.16 Q. Okay. Well, you started the17 depo at 8:30?18 A. No. I arrived here at 8:30 to19 start the depo.20 Q. Okay. But you didn't start the21 depo at 8:30, did you?22 A. It's immaterial whether I23 started at that time. I'm here.

Page 176

1 Q. Okay. But I wasn't here to 2 start the depo, was I? 3 A. But I am. 4 Q. Okay. All right. And did you 5 have a conference with Mr. Reagan and 6 Mr. Kachelman beginning at 8:30? 7 A. No. 8 Q. You just sat here until 9:00? 9 A. Got a cup of coffee and a glass10 of ice water.11 Q. And did you meet with12 Mr. Sisson?13 A. Yes. He picked me up at the14 hotel.15 Q. He picked you up at the16 Renaissance?17 A. Yes.18 Q. And brought you here?19 A. Yes.20 Q. And got you a cup of coffee,21 and y'all sat upstairs?22 A. No. He didn't get me coffee.23 He got me ice water.


(44) Pages 173 - 176



Page 177

1 Q. Okay. I don't see that written 2 down here. 3 So on these notes that we now 4 have as Exhibit 35, what you didn't have 5 earlier when I asked you about your notes, 6 you didn't leave anything else out of the 7 original notes that are reflected in 8 Exhibit 4, other than some serial numbers and 9 some information about some chips?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Okay. That's all you left out?12 A. Yes.13 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes, since we've14 asked you a lot of questions about the,15 quote, unquote, other case, Mr. Reagan and I,16 both, we're going to mark your deposition in17 the other case that was taken on July 3,18 2014, and make that Exhibit Number 37 to this19 deposition.20 A. Okay.21 (Whereupon, Exhibit Number 3722 was marked for identification23 and is attached hereto.)

Page 178

1 MR. BOLTON: And that's all 2 the questions I have. Thank you, 3 sir. 4 MR. ESPY: Can I ask you one 5 question? I want to ask you one 6 more. 7 EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. ESPY: 9 Q. The first time you did work on10 this case or looked at something was11 yesterday when you came to town, correct?12 A. For this case, yes.13 MR. ESPY: Okay. That's14 all.15 (The deposition of WILLIAM L.16 HOLMES concluded at17 approximately 2:09 p.m.)18 19 * * * * * * * * * * *20 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT21 * * * * * * * * * * *22 23

Page 179

1 * * * * * * * * * * * 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 * * * * * * * * * * * 4 STATE OF ALABAMA) 5 COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY) 6 I, Cornelia J. Baker, Certified Court 7 Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and 8 Notary Public in and for the State of 9 Alabama at Large, do hereby certify that on 10 August 7, 2014, I reported the 11 aforementioned proceedings, and that the 12 pages herein contain a true and accurate 13 transcription of the said proceedings. 14 I further certify that I am neither of 15 kin nor of counsel to the parties to said 16 cause, nor in any manner interested in the 17 results thereof. 18 This the 7th day of August, 2014. 19 20 Cornelia J. Baker, ACCR 29021 Certified Shorthand Reporter, Certified Court Reporter and22 Notary Public for the State of Alabama23 My Commission expires 6/6/16.


(45) Pages 177 - 179



A

ability (2) 49:2;81:20able (9) 37:11;69:12;70:3; 76:8;81:22;98:3,8; 125:1;139:19above (1) 114:5absolutely (2) 49:4;86:11Academy (2) 33:9,16accepting (1) 157:16acceptor (13) 44:22;56:5,15;90:13; 96:4,16;99:19;101:13; 112:20;117:14,14,15, 16acceptors (2) 55:19;57:2accessible (1) 55:20accordingly (1) 160:17accumulatively (1) 72:17accurate (1) 109:8achieving (1) 74:14across (2) 76:17;125:7act (1) 160:16activated (4) 58:16,17,21;59:12activates (1) 69:16activities (1) 154:8activity (4) 93:13;122:12,14; 154:15Actually (9) 19:18;21:1;23:13; 84:22;91:15;110:14; 116:23;118:2;119:8add (1) 154:21added (1) 154:22addition (1) 51:1additional (3) 108:19,21;158:4address (3) 9:19;10:7,10adjust (1) 151:3

advertisement (1) 117:20affected (1) 138:16affirmative (2) 102:18,22affirmed (1) 8:3Again (5) 76:22;88:22;98:2; 109:10;149:15against (8) 73:18;127:9,14; 143:16,16,17,18;144:7agent (3) 11:17;39:12;168:2agents (3) 95:12;120:12;164:12ago (7) 30:4;39:16;40:12; 41:9;144:12;156:7; 168:1agree (17) 49:4;56:10;58:3; 121:7;122:16;123:14; 126:16;127:1,8; 129:19;130:16;134:3; 137:9,19;138:7,17; 141:2agreed (3) 3:6,20;4:7ahead (4) 68:21;98:18;103:14; 116:12airport (7) 150:13,16;170:3; 171:1,16,21;172:12Alabama (44) 9:12;18:5;22:3;32:9, 10,16;33:9,17;34:3,9, 12;39:13;44:2;45:7; 82:22;118:12;124:19; 125:7;126:18;128:15, 22;129:11,22;130:3,8; 131:20;132:2,10,17,20; 133:2,7,15,20;134:6; 136:11,13;149:17; 150:5,9;151:3,4,7,18Alan (1) 49:19algorithms (1) 118:16allow (3) 122:12,13;127:17allowing (2) 134:14;135:8allows (1) 126:23alluded (1) 135:6almost (2) 71:8,12alphanumeric (2)

159:1,20altered (4) 17:6,7;25:7,8Although (3) 68:19,22;76:16always (1) 169:10amend (1) 154:20amendment (6) 126:23;134:14; 135:3,8;144:22;145:8American (7) 29:19;30:6,9;124:19; 125:6;126:1;139:4amount (2) 92:13,18analysis (5) 12:9;63:7,8;120:13; 140:20analyze (5) 13:8;57:22;65:10; 137:14;138:2analyzed (3) 23:11;59:14;61:20Annandale (1) 9:21A-N-N-A-N-D-A-L-E (1) 9:21Annaston (1) 33:17Anniston (2) 33:9;34:3announce (5) 160:2;162:10,17; 168:3,15announced (4) 159:21;160:8,9,13announcement (1) 163:1announcements (1) 124:1announcer (1) 162:11announcing (1) 81:19answered (9) 61:5;65:4;72:3;80:3; 103:22;104:20;122:10; 142:2;152:13apologize (1) 75:15apparatus (1) 90:14apparently (1) 105:4appear (4) 70:20;91:19;107:4; 169:16appearing (2) 14:6;136:23appears (7) 23:16;54:5;57:21;

58:15;59:12;63:8,11application (1) 134:11approximately (10) 11:11,22;26:5;27:4; 30:22;42:20;43:11; 54:8;174:12;178:17area (2) 65:21;70:12arises (1) 32:6around (11) 40:7,14,15;41:19,20; 42:1;52:3,17,20,21; 71:9arranged (1) 158:23arrangements (1) 122:20arrival (1) 154:7arrive (6) 40:13;151:16;170:8, 12;171:14;172:3arrived (14) 40:6,16;150:3;151:2, 7;152:6;154:8;157:3; 170:5,15;172:6,9; 174:22;175:18arriving (1) 154:15articles (3) 16:2,6,16assigned (1) 159:2Associates (6) 10:6,8;14:22;22:12; 24:17;60:10assume (5) 35:13;81:5,8;132:3,7assumed (1) 154:5Atlanta (2) 170:6,13Atlantic (1) 143:23attached (12) 14:10;32:23;33:5; 51:19;53:21;87:9; 105:8;129:3;145:3; 157:10;169:1;177:23attempt (1) 45:15attendant (3) 96:23;99:15;117:17attention (5) 129:10;160:13; 161:11,19;163:20attorney (2) 35:14;156:11attorneys (2) 9:10;156:11August (2)

32:2;53:17authored (1) 16:2authorizing (1) 144:22automatically (2) 69:17;75:20available (4) 36:23;133:14,19; 168:20award (3) 74:13;76:10;77:3awarded (1) 137:17aware (3) 134:13;135:12; 136:10

B

B139 (8) 105:14;109:17; 110:9,20;111:17; 112:5,10;115:19Bachelor's (2) 15:8,11back (20) 20:22;40:9;43:21; 52:4,15;53:1;82:14; 88:10,14,15,18;89:3,8; 90:9;152:2;153:19; 172:18;173:6,12; 174:14background (8) 15:7;24:18;25:23; 26:3,8,10,14;27:6Baker (2) 3:10;153:10baldheaded (1) 41:12ball (13) 70:1;71:15,15;81:11; 105:15;108:15;109:15, 16;111:9;112:3,10; 115:20;130:23balls (23) 65:18,20,20,23;66:4, 7,15;69:13,17;70:4; 71:3,9;72:1,7;81:19; 124:4,4,8;131:2,5,11; 138:14;140:22Baltimore (5) 37:18,21;38:9; 157:20;158:3bank (2) 143:8,20Barber (1) 158:10based (25) 13:13;63:23;65:7; 75:2;77:3;78:12;79:2, 13,16,17;80:15,21; 81:9,10;82:7,12;89:13;


(1) ability - based



98:6;120:1;137:17; 139:20;140:23;142:10; 147:21;161:17basement (3) 13:14,15,18Basic (1) 147:18basically (2) 12:19;119:18basis (3) 73:4;74:23;144:13Bates (1) 50:4Bates-labeled (2) 49:10,11Bates-numbered (1) 52:6bearing (1) 67:6Beat (1) 108:14beg (1) 90:5began (5) 20:23;41:18;151:23; 153:5;172:16begin (2) 40:14,18beginning (5) 60:9;78:9;83:1; 158:15;176:6begins (2) 19:3;123:3behalf (1) 120:22below (1) 108:19besides (4) 46:9;47:4;55:10; 166:15bet (3) 97:4;117:17,18better (1) 82:17Bill (24) 10:6,7;14:21;22:11; 24:16;44:22;55:19; 56:4,14;57:1,13;60:9, 21;90:13;96:3,16; 99:19;101:13;112:20; 117:14,14,15;128:2,6bills (1) 128:11Billy (1) 108:4binder (5) 44:11,11;134:19,22, 23Bingo (143) 16:7,8,9,12,14,17; 19:12;21:19;24:3,6,10, 14;29:2,5;31:18;65:11, 14,18,22;66:7,15,20;

67:1,8;68:1,10;69:6, 13;70:4;71:5;73:9,11; 74:6;75:12,17,18;76:5, 11;77:4;79:18;80:9,16, 22,23;81:3,7,11,17,18, 18;82:3;83:21,22;84:4, 8,12,15,16,18,19,23; 85:1,4,13;93:11; 118:15,19,20;119:3; 121:7,14,19;122:1,2,7, 11,17,17,19;123:5,16, 19;124:4,8,11,14,18; 125:5,12,18,18,23; 126:16,23;127:2,6,12, 18;129:21;130:2,7,12, 23;131:5,8,11,17; 132:1,9,16,19;133:2,7, 14,19,21;134:1,4,14; 135:3,8,13;136:12; 137:9,18;138:14,16,20, 21,23;139:3,11,22; 140:22;141:1;142:12; 144:15,22;159:7,8; 160:22;162:8,17birth (1) 10:15bit (2) 19:1;22:1black (2) 169:8,16blank (3) 96:19,22;101:12blower (1) 131:8blue (2) 169:8,16board (9) 55:22;71:6;90:12,21, 23;91:6;97:20;124:8; 131:11BOLTON (50) 8:11,15,21;9:4,9; 48:19;49:15,23;50:7, 10,14;51:9;61:12;67:3; 85:15,22;86:18;87:12, 15;102:17,21;103:3,18, 20;115:17;116:11,15, 22;117:3;126:7,12; 136:17;137:1;145:12, 18;148:1,7,12,22; 149:13;152:11,22; 153:6,12,14;155:10; 156:10;162:20;165:2; 178:1Bolton's (1) 153:22bonus (1) 76:18bookmaking (5) 12:5;17:1;20:10; 33:15;34:5both (4) 50:3;52:9;53:11;

177:16bottom (1) 154:22Boulevard (2) 82:21;149:17break (12) 34:20;40:8;41:20; 48:21;49:13;50:12,19; 51:13;53:16;85:16; 86:1;126:10brief (2) 50:16;145:16bring (1) 50:1brought (2) 173:20;176:18bucks (1) 175:9Buffalo (1) 11:18building (1) 156:7bureau (2) 25:22;44:1burst (1) 71:20business (5) 10:13;13:11,13,18; 24:23button (9) 74:11;75:17;76:5; 96:17,18;99:15; 100:22;101:12;117:16buttons (5) 96:19,22;97:16; 164:8,13

C

C166 (5) 99:12;100:3,6,18; 102:4C22 (1) 100:2C225 (3) 99:23;100:14,19C226 (1) 100:19C260 (3) 83:18;87:22;93:20C96 (3) 95:20,23;98:16cabinet (1) 90:22cabinets (2) 119:19;120:4cage (1) 106:9cages (1) 131:1call (8) 14:23;63:14;76:12; 96:23;99:15;117:16;

131:1;166:5called (13) 16:9;25:6;36:21; 47:18;49:18;81:21; 107:21,23;108:3; 111:23;161:5,22;162:3caller (1) 123:22came (4) 52:4;65:20;173:12; 178:11can (39) 26:15;34:14;50:2,6; 58:2;59:22;60:1;61:20; 67:1,5;80:8;86:11; 87:4,20;103:22;104:3; 108:13;124:3,7; 125:15;126:14,16,20; 130:21;139:15,17; 140:2;142:7;149:7; 150:6,7;152:14; 161:10;164:2;167:2,8, 18,21;178:4Canada (1) 144:1capable (5) 57:14;59:7,11;60:10, 22card (42) 44:22;55:20;67:1; 68:1;75:17,18;76:4,5, 17;80:9,16,22;81:7,12; 82:3;85:13;96:17; 99:18;101:13;106:8; 117:13;122:17;123:1; 129:21;130:2,7,12; 137:18;138:14;141:1; 159:9,13,14;160:17,22; 161:4,12;162:8;163:9; 164:3,5,17cardboard (1) 130:2cards (12) 17:6,7;25:8;66:20; 67:8;75:23;130:17; 158:23;159:7,16; 160:15;164:2card-swiping (1) 90:14career (1) 20:20carnival (5) 12:7,7;17:2,4;25:4carry (1) 169:9case (87) 3:22;4:2;9:11;15:23; 20:3;28:5,8;29:11,12; 31:16,19;32:5;34:8; 35:23;36:1,4,11,23; 37:3,6,22;38:1,5,11,16; 39:5,8,17;42:10;44:4, 15;45:9;61:23;70:23;

72:6;77:12,14,22;78:2; 79:2,7,7;80:12;118:20; 119:17;125:22;127:22; 128:8,9,10,12,17; 131:16;132:18;134:22, 23;135:4,9;137:5,7,16; 138:4;145:20;154:7,9; 156:4,6,6,12,15,15; 157:17;158:8,12,13; 160:19;161:16;162:11, 14;163:13;165:5,16, 18;177:15,17;178:10, 12cases (15) 11:17,22;12:3;16:22; 20:10,14;21:4,11,17; 26:6,7;43:23;44:7; 136:12;158:5cash (20) 94:10,12,14,18,22; 95:3;96:23;111:12,23; 114:12,18,20,22;115:1, 7,11,13;117:5,12;118:1cashier's (1) 106:9casino (2) 143:7,14casinos (2) 143:7,22causes (1) 92:14CD (7) 45:2;48:12,15;49:2; 52:6,9;141:15CDs (3) 45:6;51:12,16CD's (1) 49:8Cent (4) 99:14;100:1,23; 102:2Central (2) 150:21,22Centurion (3) 47:19;83:19;84:18certain (6) 42:2;63:1;75:21; 92:13,17;149:6certainly (1) 49:5certificates (1) 118:11Certified (2) 3:11;24:2certify (1) 24:14cetera (5) 19:7;26:16;108:13; 154:1,16chair (1) 13:22chance (7) 56:20;62:21;65:12;


(2) basement - chance



80:21;81:1;121:8,20change (6) 61:10;67:1,5;75:18; 76:4;79:6changed (1) 75:20characteristics (11) 12:15,20,21;44:21; 54:13,14,22;55:14; 65:9;121:23;127:6Charlanna (1) 9:9check (1) 94:4checking (1) 48:7Cherry (1) 100:1Chicago (1) 15:14chip (1) 166:21chips (4) 166:12,17;167:22; 177:9choosing (1) 80:20Circuit (7) 18:7;55:22;90:12,21, 23;91:6;97:20cited (1) 102:5City (1) 143:23Civil (1) 3:9claim (3) 68:4;168:3,12claimed (1) 139:22clarification (2) 49:17;78:23Class (1) 24:14Classic (2) 99:23;102:1clear (2) 20:13;117:23close (2) 146:14;172:8coached (1) 61:9coaching (2) 61:12,15code (9) 60:11;62:3,15;76:20; 79:22;109:6;120:14, 19;128:22coffee (4) 171:23;176:9,20,22Coin (1) 96:17coins (7)

96:2,2,2;97:18,18,18, 19Coke (5) 56:4,11,16,21;57:2Cole (2) 47:20;99:14College (1) 15:13columns (1) 158:23combination (2) 162:1;163:11combinations (2) 63:1;122:23comments (1) 25:6commission (2) 3:12;136:7Commissioner (1) 3:11common (1) 69:23communications (1) 39:10company (2) 10:5;61:16compared (1) 55:13comparison (1) 54:9competent (1) 60:23complete (1) 42:6components (7) 47:4;55:12,15,17,21, 22;167:16compound (1) 61:4computer (19) 13:20;22:15,20,23; 23:2,7,9;58:10,10; 61:22;147:17,21; 162:2;163:8,10; 166:12,16,21;167:22computers (1) 124:15concerned (1) 168:18concluded (1) 178:16conduct (1) 140:20conference (7) 152:1;154:16,23; 155:1;172:17;173:2; 176:5conferences (1) 19:7configuration (1) 100:3conforming (1) 138:6

confuse (1) 86:9confused (3) 84:22;138:19;168:18connect (1) 46:21connected (1) 92:5connection (1) 32:15consideration (1) 121:20console (7) 96:18;97:15;99:15; 100:22;101:12;117:16; 164:14consoles (1) 164:8constitutional (3) 126:23;134:13;135:7construed (2) 121:13;130:21consultant (2) 10:2,3consulting (5) 10:5,13;13:11,13,18contacted (2) 36:17;155:23contained (2) 40:23;90:21container (1) 90:11contains (1) 97:15continued (1) 152:3contributed (1) 144:3Control (19) 83:18;87:22;89:12; 95:20;96:18;99:12; 101:18;102:7,13; 105:14;109:17;110:9, 12,13,17;111:15;113:6, 15;116:19controlled (2) 58:4;101:3conversation (1) 153:17copied (1) 154:12copies (6) 48:22;49:13;51:2,3, 8;55:8copy (16) 8:16,23;13:21;18:3; 32:23;48:14;49:6;50:2, 9,19;51:15;54:2;59:18; 135:3;144:22;152:19Cornelia (1) 3:10corner (6) 66:22,23,23;76:2;

159:10,11Cornerstone (2) 134:5;158:10corrections (1) 8:10correctly (2) 106:22;149:19correspond (1) 85:19counsel (8) 3:6,21;4:8;14:6; 49:5;50:23;51:8; 103:13County (8) 9:12;18:7;38:16; 134:13;135:3,7,13; 144:23couple (2) 27:16;137:2course (2) 8:22;156:4Court (7) 3:11;8:6,14;16:21; 18:7;22:3,3courts (1) 19:16cover (3) 44:12;123:12;157:2covered (1) 116:3covert (1) 39:7Cow (13) 111:13;112:1; 114:12,18,20,22;115:1, 7,11,13;117:5,12;118:1credenza (1) 13:20credits (5) 92:9,21;93:5;98:10, 14crime (1) 11:17cup (3) 171:23;176:9,20current (1) 25:15CV (5) 15:22;19:15;20:6; 118:19;119:2

D

D279 (6) 111:16;113:6,15; 114:12;116:19;117:12D34 (1) 170:9data (4) 13:7,8;140:19,20date (7) 10:15,22,23;94:13, 20,22;175:11

dated (1) 53:16daub (3) 161:4,22;168:3dauber (1) 130:16daubing (1) 81:20day (3) 40:5,17;150:9days (1) 26:21DC (3) 135:22;150:18,20DCA (1) 150:18dealt (1) 16:16decision (1) 37:10declared (1) 161:13Defendants' (6) 32:20;51:11;53:14; 86:20;87:6;155:7definition (4) 123:18;129:10,20; 131:3degree (3) 15:8,9,18denomination (1) 99:17depart (2) 150:14,17departed (1) 170:10depended (1) 12:12depends (1) 42:11depicted (9) 46:10,12;67:7;90:7; 110:21;111:3;118:7; 158:14;165:5depo (6) 175:13,15,17,19,21; 176:2DEPONENT (1) 178:20deposed (1) 156:6deposition (27) 3:7,9,17,23;4:1,9; 14:4,5,7;18:4,9;32:21; 41:10;51:12;59:16,19; 60:1;78:5;155:4,11; 156:3,12,19;165:6; 177:16,19;178:15describe (1) 15:6described (5) 78:13;81:16;114:17; 118:2;119:19


(3) change - described



describing (2) 81:17;107:8designated (1) 123:3designation (1) 159:2designations (1) 159:21designed (3) 22:22;23:20;118:15Desk (1) 13:20determination (1) 78:16determine (29) 60:19;64:7,12,15; 65:6;69:12;70:4;71:22; 72:22;73:22;76:9;77:2; 78:10;91:14;98:9; 109:7;131:17;133:13, 23;137:8,16;138:4,13; 140:21;141:21;142:5; 161:3,18;162:16Development (1) 9:11device (74) 12:21;23:20,23;28:1; 63:18,20,22;64:7,19; 65:1,6,7,15,19;66:11, 13,15;67:15,16,18; 68:2,6;80:19;83:13; 84:3,20;85:12;88:3,11, 13,20,23;89:1,8;90:20, 20;91:13;92:18;93:7; 94:3;95:4;97:6,10,13, 14;98:3;99:2,5;101:16, 22;102:7,13;104:4,9, 22;105:22;106:11,13; 107:10,13;117:6; 118:3;129:11,21; 130:3,8,13,18,22; 131:3,9,13;138:6; 144:8devices (76) 12:5;17:2,19;18:6, 14;28:10,11,12,22; 39:17;40:15,18,21; 41:2;42:20,23;43:1,7, 11,11,16;44:19,22; 45:12,19,22;46:9,12, 16,22;47:11;54:8; 55:16;57:4,16;59:3; 60:12;65:18;67:2,23; 68:23;75:6;76:10; 78:11,22;79:12;80:13; 81:5;83:3,7;87:1;90:2; 91:19,23;93:9;101:4; 106:3;107:8,14,18,20; 120:1,14;121:1; 124:12;125:19;126:17, 21;127:3;131:6;140:3; 147:8,21;159:9;162:1; 167:19

dice (4) 17:5,6,7;25:8dictates (1) 11:6difference (3) 46:15;71:14;151:1different (18) 21:22;29:14;56:8; 58:7;68:17;97:10;99:4, 5;107:8;110:12; 114:11,11;123:15; 144:3;152:8;156:15; 166:12;167:16difficult (1) 19:1digital (1) 130:6direct (2) 101:5;129:9direction (1) 43:13disagree (11) 29:6;112:23;137:10, 12,19,23;138:8,10,17; 141:2,6Disc (2) 49:18;53:8disclosure (5) 32:22,23;34:23;35:2; 155:9discs (2) 51:3,6discussed (1) 161:17discussion (2) 86:15;153:3discussions (1) 155:19display (10) 58:23;69:6;72:9; 74:6,12;80:8;81:7; 92:10;108:19;124:7displayed (19) 61:2;66:5,18,20; 68:16;69:19;70:15; 71:2,5,8,16;72:17; 74:9;76:1;82:3,4;88:4; 90:10;131:12distributed (1) 121:15division (1) 11:21document (14) 14:12;33:7;34:16; 43:4;51:21;52:18;54:4; 85:10;105:10;129:5, 17;145:5;155:16; 157:12documented (1) 148:16documents (1) 28:14done (4)

79:21;124:4,9;162:2door (6) 88:17,19,22;89:3,4; 90:9down (10) 50:1;65:20;70:12; 117:12;149:2,9; 166:10,11;174:17; 177:2downstairs (1) 41:9draw (4) 70:1;71:5;81:11; 123:22drawer (1) 94:19drawing (5) 72:10;81:19;121:15; 123:23;124:3drawn (20) 65:18,23;66:7,8,15; 69:13,17;70:5,10,16, 19;71:4,4;72:5,12,14; 131:2;140:22;159:21; 160:3draws (1) 72:1Drive (2) 9:20;150:14Duper (7) 105:15;109:13,16; 111:9;112:3,10;115:19during (13) 20:14,20;146:1; 158:18;159:3,4,23; 160:5,18;161:1,15; 162:13;163:2DVD (12) 66:17;77:9;78:21; 79:11;106:10;107:9, 11,13;108:8;119:23; 146:17;147:4DVDs (15) 58:22;77:11,14,21; 78:1;79:2,16;120:9; 146:6,13;147:14; 165:4,9,14,17

E

E55 (1) 101:14earlier (17) 46:16;47:5;83:6; 86:22;121:7;127:7; 139:5;145:7;149:13; 150:1;152:5,9;155:11; 157:18;165:3,14;177:5easier (1) 59:20Economic (1) 9:11economics (2)

15:9,12ECS (5) 47:23;113:21;114:2, 5;117:13educational (1) 15:7effect (1) 134:10effort (1) 78:10eight (1) 18:12Eighty-one (1) 60:4either (10) 3:18;4:3;31:1,1; 57:15;62:15;76:4; 78:19;100:19;131:20electronic (21) 16:17;18:5;19:12; 21:18;29:2;73:9,11; 125:18,23;126:17,20; 127:3;130:6,11; 133:14,19,21;134:4; 142:14,17;159:17electronically (2) 124:5,9elements (3) 81:16;121:18,23eleven (1) 40:19else (11) 54:12;55:9;60:22; 61:16;62:9;71:22;79:8; 90:15;115:14;123:7; 177:6elsewhere (2) 124:20;125:7e-mail (1) 39:13empirical (2) 13:3,4employed (3) 9:23;17:10;22:11employees (2) 14:22;26:11employment (1) 24:18enacted (2) 119:8,14end (3) 21:9;92:6;174:4ended (6) 152:2,4;153:6;173:4; 174:3,5ending (2) 116:9;158:16engaged (1) 36:11engagement (1) 131:16engineer (3) 22:6,17;136:3

engineers (1) 22:10enter (1) 152:20entity (1) 128:16EPROMs (1) 56:2E-P-R-O-M-S (1) 56:3errata (1) 8:16ESPY (7) 84:14,21;85:8,14; 178:4,8,13et (5) 19:7;26:16;108:13; 154:1,16even (4) 62:6;144:6;161:3; 162:17event (1) 93:12everybody (1) 48:23evidence (3) 3:17;12:1;161:16exact (1) 52:3exactly (1) 149:8Exam (4) 151:23;152:3; 166:13;174:8EXAMINATION (21) 9:3;13:2;21:22;23:4; 39:23;48:10;62:10; 63:9;64:6,12;71:22; 72:22;120:18,23; 148:3;154:16;163:2; 165:1;166:5,6;178:7examinations (1) 22:1examine (19) 12:2;24:23;42:9; 46:8,18;47:1;57:4; 58:9;59:4;61:17,18; 62:18;63:2,3,5;91:1,3; 137:5;142:4examined (12) 12:10,21;16:10;23:2, 6,14;58:14;61:21;62:2, 14;95:17;139:21examining (5) 57:14;59:8;60:10,23; 174:11except (1) 64:10Excuse (2) 96:5;161:11Exhibit (86) 14:3,8;32:20;33:3; 34:22;36:6;51:11,15,


(4) describing - Exhibit



17;53:14,19,23;65:8; 77:20;86:21;87:6,21; 88:22;89:6;90:8,17; 91:4,8;93:16;97:6,17; 99:1;101:22;102:6,9, 12,15,16,19;103:2,23; 104:8,14;105:6,13; 109:19;110:21;111:12, 18;112:6,11,15,16; 113:1,1,5,14,21;114:1, 5,10,10,13,15;115:3,9, 12,16;128:21;129:1; 144:21;145:1,19; 147:5;148:6;149:14; 152:20;155:8;157:6,7, 8;158:7;165:5,19; 168:19,22;169:4; 177:4,8,18,21Exhibits (9) 87:11;88:4,7;89:11, 17;100:5;103:16; 105:20;111:4expenses (1) 128:7experience (11) 28:17;73:6,9,14; 75:3,4;98:6;120:2; 139:20;142:10,11experienced (1) 12:16expert (16) 19:17,21;20:2;21:13; 22:14,19;27:11;28:4; 31:15;32:22,23;34:23; 35:2;36:11;136:12; 155:9expertise (2) 15:1;61:17explain (1) 154:3explaining (1) 85:23express (2) 97:1,1extract (1) 140:19

F

facilities (4) 124:19;125:6;126:1; 139:4facility (1) 92:20fact (2) 61:16;154:5fail (1) 161:10failed (1) 146:21fair (5) 47:10;53:12;65:2; 107:7;148:9

familiar (6) 92:15;119:5;124:17; 125:5;127:18;158:13Farm (1) 117:13fashion (1) 148:19fast (1) 149:10fax (1) 13:21FBI (19) 10:18;11:8,12;12:11, 22;15:20;17:11;20:15, 23;25:17;26:2,18;27:5, 10;29:18;33:22;34:9, 13;119:9federal (2) 16:21;22:3feed (1) 173:22few (8) 9:13;28:5;41:9; 126:14;145:13;148:5; 155:7;156:7field (1) 11:16Fifteen (1) 108:12figure (1) 91:14filed (3) 35:16;155:16,21filing (2) 3:22;4:5find (5) 19:1;34:14,17,19; 60:6fine (2) 8:11;50:14finished (5) 40:10;70:13;87:16; 96:20;174:19Fire (1) 101:11first (13) 8:2;14:13;20:23; 35:8;36:10;71:15; 83:13;122:1;123:11; 155:22;165:8,11;178:9five (22) 53:4;55:18;70:22; 71:2;83:2;87:12;88:1; 96:1;106:2,19;107:5; 116:16,21,21;117:1,2; 118:2,7;129:12; 158:23;159:1;162:5Flew (1) 150:15flow (1) 72:7fly (1) 150:14

follows (1) 8:5forensic (6) 15:9;62:10;120:13, 18,23;140:20form (56) 3:14;17:21;30:10; 44:9;47:6;56:6,18,23; 57:17;58:12;59:9;61:3; 65:3;66:2,12;67:4,10; 69:15;70:18;71:7;72:2, 13;74:2,15;77:6,18; 79:9;80:2,18;81:14; 82:9;104:19;109:9; 119:11,21;121:4,10; 122:9;123:17;124:22; 126:2;130:4,20; 132:12;134:8;137:11, 20;141:3;142:1,22; 144:17;148:13,23; 152:11;162:21;166:4formality (1) 3:12formally (1) 16:18former (1) 136:6Fortran (1) 147:17four (18) 18:22;30:3;40:10; 52:17,20;59:21;60:9; 70:22;71:2;83:2;96:19, 22;101:9;105:17; 108:7,11;118:8;161:9Fourteen (1) 97:7frauds (1) 25:4Friday (1) 49:19front (9) 50:3;51:12;85:11; 86:4;88:16,17;89:1; 97:13;103:23function (2) 98:9,11functioned (1) 91:15functioning (1) 47:12further (5) 3:20;4:7;32:4; 164:22;178:20future (1) 116:10

G

gambling (40) 11:22;12:3,4,5,6; 17:2,18;18:6,14;23:20, 23;27:23;28:10,12,22;

33:14;64:19;65:7,14; 91:19,23;92:18;93:7,9, 12,13;121:10,19; 128:22;129:11,21; 130:3,8,12,17,22; 131:3,6,9,13game (66) 16:12;24:2,3,6,6,9,9, 14;30:13;65:11,14; 67:6;68:16,17;69:1,6,7, 17;76:11;77:3,4;78:11; 79:19;80:14,23;81:3,9, 17,18,18;82:7;84:4,6, 12,18,20,22;85:3,4; 109:4;111:7;121:7,14, 19;122:1,2,11,19; 123:5,12;127:12; 130:17;133:2;134:4; 138:15,17,20,21,23; 139:11,16;140:23; 141:15;142:8;163:15; 168:8games (57) 12:7,7,9;17:3,4,14; 19:12;21:19;29:6,18; 31:1,19;40:1,5;42:9; 47:17;48:4,9,11;58:4; 62:15,21;67:23;68:15; 72:23;73:22;74:5;77:4; 78:17;79:17;80:21; 96:2;108:14;118:20; 119:3;122:7;124:12, 14,18;125:5,21,23; 127:7,18;135:13; 138:5;139:3;141:8,14, 21;142:12;147:14; 160:8;161:20;163:22; 168:4,5Gaming (1) 136:7Gate (3) 9:20;170:8,12Gateway (2) 47:20,21gave (9) 9:16;10:22;16:20,21; 17:10;34:1;38:22; 76:17;79:12Gene (7) 41:3,5;43:13;46:3,4; 171:5,6general (1) 35:14generate (1) 92:14generated (1) 92:23generates (1) 163:8generator (6) 62:19;63:10,14; 64:16;70:9;71:23generators (1)

62:23gentleman (1) 41:8George (1) 15:10Girl (1) 108:15Girls (1) 107:21given (1) 21:4gives (1) 80:19glad (1) 49:12glass (1) 176:9goes (2) 20:22;143:10good (4) 48:21;116:7,23; 126:8government (1) 26:12greater (1) 21:11Greene (2) 18:7;38:16group (2) 45:8;128:16guess (5) 42:1;57:8;84:21; 122:1;125:14guy (1) 41:12

H

hall (1) 133:7hand (5) 35:3;86:20;87:3; 105:3;158:12handed (2) 128:20;145:8handheld (1) 124:12hands (1) 113:3handwriting (3) 82:17;145:21;169:5Hang (3) 109:23;112:6;142:21happen (1) 50:13happened (1) 44:10head (1) 136:6hear (2) 160:2;167:4hedge (1) 163:6


(5) Exhibits - hedge



held (3) 86:15;153:3,17help (3) 86:6;99:18;117:17helpful (1) 85:23hereby (3) 3:5;4:1,10hereto (13) 3:19;4:4;14:10;33:5; 51:19;53:21;87:9; 105:8;129:3;145:3; 157:10;169:1;177:23hieroglyphics (1) 149:11Highlight (1) 52:6Highlights (2) 49:22,22Hillbilly (2) 107:21;108:15himself (1) 76:4hired (1) 136:11hold (2) 113:2;118:10HOLMES (44) 3:8,23;8:1;9:7,8; 10:1,6,8;14:4,21; 22:11;24:16;49:8; 50:20;51:4,10;57:14; 60:10,22;65:17;74:6; 76:9;80:6;82:15;86:19; 112:22;118:10;123:15; 126:13;127:8;128:19; 129:20;131:16;134:4; 145:19;148:6;153:5, 13,21;155:6;156:2; 165:4;177:13;178:16Holmes' (1) 49:6H-O-L-M-E-S (1) 9:7home (2) 10:10;13:11hopefully (1) 9:15hopper (1) 130:23hotel (7) 170:22;171:3,15,16; 174:23;175:2;176:14Hotter (2) 108:1,18hour (2) 48:20;150:23House (7) 108:15;122:6; 127:10;143:16,19; 144:8;172:2human (1) 160:21

hypothetical (1) 82:10

I

ice (2) 176:10,23idea (5) 21:16;27:13;30:1; 35:10;170:14identical (4) 54:1,11;100:23; 110:17identification (11) 14:9;33:4;51:18; 53:20;87:8;105:7; 129:2;145:2;157:9; 168:23;177:22identify (3) 46:2;49:2;104:22ie (1) 162:8IGRA (1) 119:6II (1) 24:14illustrate (2) 125:3,11illustrates (2) 97:17;100:12images (3) 78:12;79:14;108:12immaterial (1) 175:22immediately (1) 114:5implying (1) 29:4inadvertently (1) 103:12include (1) 20:14included (3) 20:19;147:2,4including (3) 12:7;121:1;128:7incorrect (1) 142:20Indian (2) 125:12,17indicate (5) 66:3;68:6;70:15; 82:12;108:21indicated (9) 13:9;69:1;84:2,2; 89:20;95:17;106:20; 155:15;163:9indicates (5) 60:20;89:11;95:2; 99:13;110:18indication (1) 143:6indications (1)

160:7Indirectly (2) 23:5,6individual (4) 67:16,18;95:9; 128:16individuals (1) 31:6influence (1) 74:8information (8) 28:15;149:2;152:16; 156:20;157:3,23; 166:22;177:9infrequent (2) 27:16,18initial (1) 134:19initials (1) 94:7initiate (1) 109:3initiated (1) 69:14ink (4) 130:16;169:8,8,17inoperable (2) 40:3;45:14inside (4) 55:16;90:19;92:4; 120:4insistent (1) 39:22inspect (1) 42:9inspected (1) 164:9inspection (9) 39:16,20;40:1; 119:18;153:23;159:5; 161:17;162:14;163:14instance (1) 93:3instead (1) 59:21intentionally (1) 44:13interior (7) 88:12,20;89:1,3,7; 114:17;120:1interpret (1) 149:12into (5) 3:17;18:15;65:21; 143:10;166:3introduced (1) 4:2investigation (2) 26:14,14investigations (7) 24:18;25:23;26:3,8, 11,17;27:7investigator (4)

25:13,19,20;41:4involve (2) 16:7,22involved (7) 19:11;20:9;21:4,14, 18;26:2;27:6iPads (1) 124:12irrelevant (1) 136:18IRS (1) 92:17issue (3) 160:20;162:15;166:3issued (2) 106:8;118:11Item (20) 87:17,21;95:16; 101:8;105:12,17; 107:4;109:20;110:8, 11;111:2,8;112:7,17, 18;116:16,21;117:1; 118:6;151:21items (2) 114:11;157:15

J

Jack (1) 108:4jackpot (5) 92:13,22;98:10,13; 143:10Jackson (1) 33:8Jacksonville (2) 33:16;34:2John (5) 9:8;41:3;49:4;50:18; 116:6Judge (1) 140:9July (10) 9:15,16;18:8;24:10; 32:9;36:14;38:9,15,23; 177:17June (1) 26:23jurisdiction (1) 127:1jurisdictions (2) 127:3,17

K

Kachelman (2) 39:11;176:6KC (1) 9:11keep (1) 86:5Keno (1) 108:13

Kepro (2) 47:20;99:14K-E-P-R-O (2) 47:21;99:14key (3) 92:20;93:4;97:15kind (6) 13:2,4;37:2;122:14; 133:6;138:19knock (3) 96:10,12;117:21knock-off (12) 44:23;91:12,15,21; 92:8;93:2,5;96:3; 97:23;98:1,4,9knowledge (6) 62:12;75:3;98:6; 132:9,16;133:18KO (1) 96:9

L

lab (2) 15:3;136:6label (1) 93:18labeled (6) 16:14;49:21,22;94:6; 100:5;102:16labeling (1) 95:13laboratory (1) 11:21Ladner (10) 135:22;136:11,18; 137:3,4,13;138:1,11; 140:16,18Ladner's (1) 136:20language (1) 117:17languages (2) 147:17,21last (24) 8:12;10:22;18:13; 19:8;20:1;27:16,22; 29:9;35:21;38:17;52:7; 57:13;58:9;68:9;69:23; 71:15;75:11;77:1;79:7; 98:3;121:22;122:6; 128:20;153:11later (1) 34:19law (7) 127:4;129:11,22; 130:3,8;133:23;134:9lawful (1) 134:6lawfully (3) 126:17,19;127:2lawyer (1) 22:8


(6) held - lawyer



layperson (1) 140:12leading (3) 148:13,23;152:12leads (1) 44:12learn (1) 135:16least (7) 41:16;46:17;50:2; 91:11;116:12;136:12; 168:4leave (9) 44:10;52:15;166:8, 14;169:22;171:12; 172:20;173:6;177:6lecture (2) 33:12;34:1lectures (3) 16:1,7,16Lee (1) 49:19left (16) 25:17;26:2;27:5,10; 29:17;34:9,12;52:1; 68:23;96:22;150:3; 152:7;170:2;172:23; 173:9;177:11left-hand (2) 66:23;159:10legal (3) 143:7,22;158:4legend (3) 69:5;89:10;94:6legitimate (1) 93:4length (2) 52:8;53:10letter (2) 39:13;157:2level (1) 26:15license (1) 25:15licensed (2) 25:12,21licenses (1) 118:11lie (1) 109:7limited (1) 119:18line (7) 18:12,18;19:4;60:9; 76:17;78:9;82:16linked (3) 64:2,8,13list (2) 146:21;157:15listed (7) 15:23;16:20;19:8; 32:14;48:1;84:20; 146:18

little (1) 18:23located (9) 13:11,19;30:9;34:3; 63:15;64:17;65:1; 66:10;90:23location (4) 45:4;90:12;112:20; 122:11locations (1) 31:2lock (1) 117:20locked (1) 90:20locks (7) 91:10,18,18;92:1,6; 99:19;100:12log (6) 89:10,16,22;90:1,4; 117:16long (8) 10:12;52:5,7,23; 53:7,9;172:12;173:17look (40) 18:1,12;31:22;32:17; 33:1;35:1;40:4,21; 41:15;42:8;46:11;47:3, 16;51:23;53:23;57:9; 58:2,21;59:15,22;60:1; 62:6;64:5;78:4;92:4; 93:16;101:8;102:9; 104:23;105:1;110:11, 15;111:11;113:20; 138:12;146:21;147:8; 157:5;165:15;166:5looked (63) 12:19;28:12;29:5,11, 12,18;31:1,18,20; 39:18,19;40:1;41:2,18; 42:20;43:7,11;44:18; 45:12;47:11,13;48:4,5; 51:16;54:7,8,22,23; 55:12;56:9;58:18,22; 59:4;62:16;63:20;65:2; 78:17;79:3,6;84:7; 86:23;106:13,14; 107:3,9,21;117:7,8; 118:3;120:3,8;125:21; 137:7,16;141:14; 146:2,2,4,5;147:9; 165:9,20;178:10looking (29) 33:10;40:14,18; 41:19,23;42:6;45:18, 22;48:8;61:1;64:1; 88:7,23;89:2,6;104:15; 105:16;108:8;111:18; 139:16;140:4,14; 142:9;147:13,14; 148:21;154:1;172:16; 174:20looks (4)

94:17;100:2;114:5; 172:15lose (2) 168:12,15losing (1) 138:15lost (2) 140:23;168:8lot (3) 55:22;121:15;177:14lottery (1) 121:12lower (2) 66:22;159:10luggage (1) 170:22lunch (5) 116:8;126:10; 173:18,20,23

M

MA (1) 174:8machine (31) 13:7,21,21;16:9,11; 29:2;54:10;55:14,17, 23;56:4,11,12,17; 73:18;74:9;75:12; 78:12;84:15;110:19; 113:10;127:9;137:6,8, 15;138:12;142:6,15; 143:4,14,16machines (73) 12:6,13,15;17:2,15; 21:8,15;28:18,20,21; 29:5,9,10;31:20;40:9; 41:14;45:3;46:12;52:2; 56:9;57:1,2;59:1,1; 64:1,2,6,8;73:7,9,12, 15,17;75:5,8,20;79:13; 80:7;114:11;125:1,10; 127:7;138:3;139:21; 140:13,19;142:13,17; 143:8,9,21;144:4,7,14, 15;146:2;152:4; 153:23;154:1;159:5; 160:6,19;161:2,18; 162:15,19;163:3,14; 164:8,13;172:16; 174:12,20Macon (6) 9:12;134:13;135:3,7, 13;144:23mail (1) 157:2making (2) 44:7;148:18manner (1) 4:3manufactured (3) 101:13;113:21;114:2manufacturer (5)

48:3,5;83:19;99:13; 117:13manufacturers (1) 47:16Manufacturing (1) 47:20many (6) 19:20;41:14;43:1; 48:3,4;163:17mark (13) 53:13;68:1;86:3; 103:15,18;130:17; 160:22;161:4,12,22; 164:2,4;177:16marked (18) 14:3,9;32:20;33:4; 51:10,18;53:7,20;87:8; 105:7;129:2;144:21; 145:2;157:9;160:1; 161:11;168:23;177:22marking (2) 86:7;160:16Massachusetts (1) 143:23Master's (2) 15:9,18match (1) 122:20matches (1) 160:14matching (3) 137:18;141:1;162:9material (1) 166:15materials (3) 28:15;39:3;158:4matter (8) 11:5;18:4;98:12; 136:21;156:15;160:20; 161:2;162:15maximum (2) 97:4;117:18may (15) 3:10,15,17;4:1;8:22; 48:21;50:11;85:19,22; 86:6;103:16;126:7; 144:3;145:13;162:22maybe (3) 20:11;50:12;152:7mean (16) 26:23;38:19;56:20; 61:18;66:23;68:19; 71:13;90:4;96:11; 122:21;132:5,7; 159:12;171:2;174:10; 175:14meaning (2) 70:17;121:19means (3) 70:21;94:18;155:2mechanical (3) 55:19;96:1;97:17Medeco (9)

44:23;91:10;92:6; 96:3,5;97:23;99:19; 100:12;117:20meet (1) 176:11meeting (9) 37:18,21;38:4,8; 157:19;158:2,18; 173:15;174:4memory (1) 167:14mentioned (4) 47:22;53:3;134:20; 156:1met (1) 135:23meter (1) 92:10meters (3) 55:19;96:1;97:17method (4) 92:21;123:22; 125:11;132:19might (8) 35:4;94:2;114:23; 115:1;122:6;134:19; 149:7;155:23mind (3) 152:21;162:6;166:18mine (1) 82:17minute (7) 103:5,19;113:2; 129:14;143:15;144:12; 168:1minutes (3) 86:12;145:13;172:14mischaracterize (1) 153:14misleading (1) 139:8miss (2) 161:13;162:3missing (7) 103:9;104:7,11,12, 13,23;105:2Mississippi (1) 136:7misspell (1) 149:6mistake (2) 95:12,15modify (1) 154:20moment (5) 35:1;39:16;40:12; 58:2;82:15moments (1) 41:9money (5) 56:15,21;92:18; 127:21;143:10Montgomery (8)


(7) layperson - Montgomery



40:13;82:22;149:17; 151:16;170:11,16; 172:7,10month (1) 11:5more (15) 17:23;19:19;27:4; 29:22;49:17;72:23; 106:18;110:23;126:14; 127:13;140:16;143:8; 158:22;160:15;178:6morning (2) 9:14;40:7most (2) 21:9;143:22motel (1) 171:1move (1) 103:23movement (1) 138:13much (3) 9:14;127:21;128:5multiple (9) 107:14,15,18;122:3; 123:23;141:22;142:8; 143:5;165:20must (3) 160:13,16;162:7

N

NA (1) 94:17name (5) 9:5,8;10:4;84:2; 111:12Native (7) 29:19;30:6,8;124:19; 125:6;126:1;139:4near (1) 116:10necessarily (1) 163:7necessary (1) 142:5need (3) 3:15;49:1;153:19needed (1) 15:1neither (1) 57:13Nevada (1) 143:23next (5) 95:16;99:7;106:2; 113:1;151:21night (1) 175:9Nine (8) 43:5,6,16,18;46:15; 83:6;88:19;91:7nobody (2)

60:21;90:1non-depicted (1) 81:10none (5) 16:15;21:17;25:21; 47:10;160:9nonexistent (1) 80:15nonfunctional (1) 55:1nonoperational (1) 54:23noon (3) 41:20;52:3;172:17normally (2) 55:23;64:18North (1) 15:13Northeast (2) 33:9,15Northern (2) 82:21;149:16notation (1) 89:10note (8) 18:21;44:10;83:16; 89:10;95:10;99:22; 108:20;109:14notebook (2) 43:20,21notes (102) 42:19,22;43:2,6,16, 20,22;44:7,14;45:22; 46:13;48:22;49:6,14; 50:20;53:15,15;54:2; 82:14;83:3,6,14;84:6; 85:20;87:5,17,18; 95:18,23;99:7,11; 101:3,9;104:5,9,13,18; 105:17;106:14,18,22; 107:3,4,17,17;108:7,7, 11;109:21;110:9; 111:3;112:8,17; 116:13,17;117:11; 118:7;145:19,23; 146:9,12,15,18;147:1, 4,8,11,13;148:8,16,19; 149:6,14;150:6,7,8; 151:9,11,15;152:8,10, 15,19;153:7,12,23; 154:2,4,6,10,11,12,21; 166:1,2,4,20;167:10; 168:19;177:3,5,7notice (3) 14:5,7;155:8notification (1) 92:16Nova (1) 47:19N-O-V-A (2) 47:19;83:19Number (141) 14:3,8;16:1;21:11;

32:21;33:3;51:11,15, 17;53:14,19;54:1; 62:19,23;63:14;64:16; 68:16;69:1,7;71:23; 78:9;81:15,21;83:8,9, 18;85:18;87:17,21,22, 23;88:19,22;89:6,12; 90:8;91:7,9;93:16,23; 94:1;95:17;97:6,6; 99:1,8;100:22;101:9, 19,23;102:2,6,7,10,12, 13,20;104:1,14;105:5, 6,12,14,15,17;106:2,9, 19;107:5;109:13,20; 110:8,12,12,14,18,21; 111:3,8,12,16,19; 112:6,8,11,12,15,17, 19;113:1,2,5,6,10,14, 15,17,21;114:1,4; 115:4,9,12,16;116:16, 19,21;117:1,2;118:7; 123:23;128:21;129:1, 12;139:20,21;144:21; 145:1;148:7;155:8; 157:6,8;158:7,8,9,16, 20;159:19;160:10; 161:5,8,22;162:3,5; 163:8;165:6;168:20, 22;169:4;177:18,21numbered (4) 83:1,14;101:3; 158:15numbering (1) 50:4numbers (25) 12:5;17:1;67:5; 70:20;71:10;75:23; 87:7;102:16;103:2; 108:13;109:20;111:1; 122:20;123:9;138:6; 149:3;159:15;160:3,8; 166:11,16,21;167:15, 19;177:8Nummy (1) 49:20

O

Object (55) 17:20;30:10;44:8; 47:6;56:6,18,23;57:17; 58:12;59:9;61:3;65:3; 66:1,12;67:3,10;69:15; 70:18;71:7;72:2,13; 74:2,15;77:6;79:9; 80:17;81:13;82:9; 104:19;109:9;119:10, 21;121:3;122:9; 123:17;124:21;126:2; 129:23;130:4,19; 132:11;134:7;137:11, 20;141:3,4,23;142:22; 144:17;148:12,22,23;

152:11,12;162:20objecting (2) 61:13;136:20Objection (8) 77:17;80:1;125:9; 136:14;138:9,18; 139:7;148:13objections (2) 3:13,14observation (1) 106:10observe (3) 76:7;164:12,20observed (4) 148:11,15;163:21; 164:11observing (1) 66:17occasion (3) 17:18;32:16;76:16occasions (2) 29:14;76:6occur (1) 123:1occurred (5) 75:21;154:15,18; 158:2;164:3occurring (1) 77:10October (2) 11:3,7off (8) 80:8;81:6;86:11; 88:14;96:10,12;97:16; 117:21offenses (1) 128:22offered (1) 3:17offering (2) 28:7;132:18office (13) 35:13;52:4;152:1; 155:23;156:21;157:2; 159:4;172:18;173:4,7, 12;174:2,5officer (2) 45:3;48:13officers (1) 164:12off-the-Record (3) 86:14;153:2,16often (1) 127:13once (3) 17:23;69:16;102:2one (139) 8:13;11:5;17:18; 18:22;19:8;29:20;30:7, 15;34:19;35:23,23; 36:3;42:1;47:18;49:18, 18;53:8;54:9;55:18; 59:19,20,22;64:3,8;

65:19;68:22;69:4; 70:10,10,11,17,17,21; 71:2,5,5;72:1,1,5,5,12, 12,14,15;73:1,23; 76:16;77:13,16,19; 78:22;80:19,20;81:15; 83:1,14;87:17,22; 89:19;91:11;92:6; 95:11;99:4,14;100:1, 22,23,23;101:21;102:2, 3,4;103:11;104:11; 106:2,17,18,20;107:13, 18,20;108:3,14; 109:23;110:23;112:4; 114:17;115:21;117:8, 11;122:1,8,15;123:19; 124:23;136:9,12; 137:5,14;138:2,12; 139:20;140:2,13,16; 141:8,13,15,22;142:8, 16;143:4,6,8;146:9,12, 15,22;147:1;156:11; 158:15,20,22;159:22, 22;160:3,3,8,8,14,14; 168:4,9;169:3,11,18; 170:10;178:4,5ones (9) 9:14;29:11;47:23; 56:8;100:20;137:7,15; 138:3;165:5only (21) 17:17;45:21;54:21; 58:20;60:19;65:19; 69:4;79:5;82:4;106:20; 107:13;122:8;123:19; 124:23;141:8,13,15; 142:16;146:8,13,17onto (1) 23:12open (4) 55:3;88:18,23;90:22opened (3) 55:6,10;91:2operate (4) 45:12,16;46:22; 54:15operated (1) 59:1operates (1) 61:2operating (1) 137:9operation (3) 58:3;78:21;134:10operational (9) 12:20;23:11;47:12; 54:14;77:5;78:15,18; 88:5;120:6operations (2) 12:4;17:1operator (3) 44:20;92:14,19opinion (21)


(8) month - opinion



23:18;28:9,16;70:6; 73:12;74:16,17;75:1,7; 76:13;79:1,7,12;93:10; 122:4;131:23;132:6,8; 139:13;141:8;144:13opinions (2) 28:7;132:18opportunity (2) 8:9;161:13opposed (2) 66:16;107:18option (1) 80:20order (13) 25:22;56:15;86:8; 104:21;115:22;137:8, 16;138:4;140:21; 160:12;162:18;163:5, 21organized (1) 11:17origin (3) 166:11,16;167:22original (3) 53:18;169:2;177:7originally (1) 105:4others (3) 75:7;98:21;103:4otherwise (2) 12:14;29:7out (24) 43:20;44:12;56:16; 64:22;71:19;72:6;86:8; 91:14;94:4;96:2,23; 97:18;111:1;112:14; 115:22;117:16;148:20; 151:8;166:8,14; 169:10;171:12;177:6, 11outcome (13) 67:6;76:9;77:3; 78:11;79:17;80:14,22; 81:2,9,11;82:7,12; 138:16outside (1) 120:4over (7) 19:16;72:18;80:3,3; 92:13;148:6;155:20oversight (1) 95:9own (1) 133:18

P

packet (3) 156:20;157:3,23page (23) 18:9,11,18,22;33:10; 59:15,19,20;60:3,6; 78:4;99:7;107:4;108:6,

11;116:21;117:1,23; 118:2,8,8;158:11,14pages (2) 18:22;59:21paid (2) 127:22;128:15paper (3) 129:21;130:17; 159:16Paragraph (2) 158:16,21paragraphs (1) 158:15paraphernalia (1) 12:6paraphrase (1) 144:11pardon (1) 90:5parenthesis (1) 96:8Park (1) 15:13part (14) 62:20;63:4,9,11; 67:11;75:2;79:4;85:12; 97:19;118:3;131:15; 141:12,17;149:15particular (7) 24:6,9;69:7;90:16; 105:21;112:4;127:1parties (2) 3:7,22partly (1) 118:8partner (1) 9:9party (2) 3:18;4:3past (5) 12:17;28:18;73:6; 142:10,11pattern (8) 74:14;76:17;123:9, 12;162:9,18,23;163:5patterns (7) 74:7,13;122:22; 123:2,5;137:18;141:1pay (5) 99:18;160:13; 161:10,19;163:20pencil (1) 169:18pending (2) 9:12;18:6pens (2) 169:10,15people (1) 14:23Per (3) 15:5;16:8;25:20percent (2) 20:11;27:4

percentage (8) 20:8;21:3,6,14; 25:18;26:1,5;27:9perfectly (1) 93:4perform (4) 12:9;26:18;62:10; 64:5performed (1) 48:10period (4) 20:15;21:10;30:22; 72:20permitted (1) 73:23person (2) 46:1;123:11personal (3) 132:9,16;133:18perspective (1) 26:11pertinent (1) 149:4photo (4) 90:16;91:7;97:19; 103:9photocopies (2) 50:22;51:5Photograph (11) 99:13;102:7,13; 103:11;104:4,7,12,23; 105:2,4;114:16photographs (23) 43:10;45:6,23;46:10, 13;55:7,10;86:4,22; 89:16;90:5;97:5;98:15; 100:5,14,19;101:4,5, 16;102:3;105:21,23; 116:3physically (2) 160:16,22pick (1) 108:13picked (5) 171:2,5,22;176:13, 15picture (7) 88:15,16,18;97:22; 115:6,10;159:14pictures (6) 43:14,15;85:18; 87:20;96:21;110:7pin (1) 106:8pinball (3) 16:9,11,13place (4) 116:7;122:12,14; 158:12plan (3) 31:15;32:3;42:8plans (1) 42:14

Platinum (1) 101:12play (34) 12:20;13:6,8;54:18; 58:3;65:21;69:14;73:1, 23;76:18;97:3,4;99:15, 16,16,16,16,17;101:12; 117:18;123:3,16,19; 125:18;133:14,19; 134:6;141:9;143:5,10; 160:12;161:19;163:21; 164:13played (30) 12:14;29:1,8,10; 48:13;53:11;78:11; 96:2;97:19;106:10; 122:8,17;124:12,15,18; 125:6,12,23;126:17,20; 127:2;131:17;132:1, 10,17;138:5;139:3; 141:16,21;168:4player (60) 44:22;46:9;47:4,7; 55:20;67:23;68:4,16; 69:14,16,20;73:1,18; 74:6,8,11;75:16;76:3, 10,18;80:7,20;81:20; 82:3,5;92:10,12,22; 99:18;108:13;109:1; 117:13;121:1;122:8, 15;123:3;127:9,13; 141:9,13,22;142:8,16; 143:5,8;144:7;158:22; 160:12,15,21;161:4,10, 19,21;162:3,7,12,16; 163:4,9players (21) 73:23;108:19,21; 109:2;122:3,19; 123:23;124:1,8; 127:14;131:12;141:22; 142:9;143:5,11,17; 144:5,8;162:10; 163:15,19player's (2) 90:14;160:15Players's (1) 106:8playing (15) 25:7;28:17,21;45:3; 109:3;127:9,13; 132:19;143:13,15,17, 18;144:7;160:7;163:15plays (2) 73:18;143:9please (10) 18:16;106:7;151:14; 153:11;154:3;158:20; 159:18;160:10;161:8; 162:6plug (2) 45:11,15pm (4)

52:21;53:2;152:4; 178:17pocket (1) 169:15point (4) 116:9,23;139:10; 172:17points (2) 134:5,10Police (2) 33:9,16poor (1) 40:12portion (5) 90:20;97:14;128:21; 143:9;158:13position (2) 92:2;136:9possession (1) 151:12possible (7) 27:20;44:23;96:4,17; 97:23;119:12;161:3preceding (1) 117:23predesignated (3) 122:20,22;123:8predetermined (3) 162:9,17;163:4prepare (3) 31:15;35:6,12prepared (2) 31:14;120:22present (4) 41:1;42:13;89:19; 121:19presentation (8) 33:13;34:8,12;37:9, 13;38:8,14;39:4presentations (4) 16:1,7,16;19:7presented (2) 28:4;158:3pretty (2) 146:14;172:8previous (1) 156:18previously (3) 12:13;107:11;156:16primary (1) 26:20principal (1) 144:13print (1) 18:23printed (2) 59:20;103:12printer (1) 13:21prior (8) 29:17;32:16;36:12, 13,14;42:10;59:16; 157:16


(9) opinions - prior



private (3) 25:12,19,20prize (3) 68:5;121:20;144:3prizes (2) 121:14;137:17Probably (6) 30:3;40:11,19;94:18; 122:11;140:11Procedure (1) 3:9proceedings (2) 137:22;141:5produced (2) 105:5;115:22proficient (1) 147:16program (31) 23:10,12;57:20,23; 58:4,10,14;59:12,13; 60:20;61:18,19,20,22, 22;62:20;63:4,11,16, 17;64:19,23;65:7,8; 66:3,9,10;67:12,13; 69:18;142:4programming (1) 22:15programs (1) 118:15projected (1) 23:12projecting (1) 91:11proper (1) 161:10properly (2) 161:11,12provide (5) 24:17;49:5;50:23; 51:2;103:15provided (12) 3:19;4:4;14:5;15:23; 45:5;48:15;51:5,13; 53:16;103:13;134:16; 145:20providing (1) 51:7pseudo (1) 63:13pseudo-number (2) 63:10;70:8Pseudorandom (1) 62:23pull (2) 64:22;112:13pulled (1) 43:20purpose (4) 3:18;44:6;56:8;92:7pursuant (2) 3:8;14:7pushing (1) 74:11

put (7) 43:21;56:15,21; 84:12;85:4;112:23; 149:2pyramid (1) 25:10

Q

qualified (2) 19:16,21quick (3) 148:19;149:1;163:14Quincy (5) 99:15;100:1,23,23; 102:2Quincy's (1) 100:21quite (3) 39:22;48:20;68:18quotations (2) 85:1,5quote (2) 125:12;177:15quotes (3) 83:22;84:6,12

R

raise (1) 97:1random (8) 62:18;63:10,14; 64:16;70:9;71:23; 138:7;140:22randomly (4) 70:5,20;71:4;159:21rate (1) 175:8rather (4) 37:17;57:20;134:11; 166:9reaching (1) 148:6read (28) 8:10,12;18:15;59:21; 82:15;95:22;97:2,16; 99:11;101:9;106:6; 108:10;109:14;111:1; 114:6;117:10;129:14; 149:14,15;153:11,19; 158:8,17,20;159:18; 160:10;161:8;162:5reader (3) 44:23;96:17;101:13reading (6) 4:9;82:18;87:17; 96:20;106:4,22REAGAN (103) 8:8,18;17:20;18:20; 30:10;36:19;37:12,20; 39:4,11;44:8;46:1; 47:6;49:3,16;50:6,8,11,

15,18;56:6,18,23; 57:17;58:12;59:9,17; 61:3,11;65:3;66:1,12; 67:10;69:15;70:18; 71:7;72:2,13;74:2,15; 77:6,17;79:9;80:1,17; 81:13;82:9;86:6,10; 87:10,14;102:14,19,23; 103:10;104:19;109:9; 115:15,18;116:6,14,20; 119:10,21;121:3; 122:9;123:17;124:21; 125:9;126:2,9;129:23; 130:4,19;132:11; 134:7;136:14,19; 137:11,20;138:9,18; 139:7;141:3,23; 142:22;143:1;144:17; 145:15;148:4;152:18; 153:1,4,9,18;164:21; 165:23;168:17;169:13; 171:13;175:8;176:5; 177:15really (7) 11:4;17:22;20:4; 21:5;27:12,17;148:20reason (2) 141:12,17recall (19) 16:4;17:19,22;19:6; 27:22;29:2;30:17; 32:18;35:5;38:10; 47:16;48:3;53:7,8; 118:22;155:11;156:1, 8;173:16receive (2) 37:20;157:1received (4) 38:2;92:17;156:20; 157:22recent (1) 21:10recently (4) 25:5,9;26:22;27:10recess (3) 50:16;86:16;145:16recipient (1) 39:4recognize (11) 55:16;81:21;84:3,11, 17;85:3;125:1;149:8; 157:6;162:7;163:11recognized (2) 55:13;122:23recollection (1) 155:21Record (14) 9:6;13:7;18:15,21; 20:12;45:21;49:7; 59:17;86:9,12;103:10; 151:6;158:19;169:14Records (2) 12:4;25:1

reel (5) 78:12;79:13;81:10; 99:23;108:19reels (28) 45:2;75:12;76:12,14; 77:4;79:18;80:8,15; 81:6;82:6,8,11,12; 101:11;102:1;108:12; 138:16,20,20,22;139:5, 11,18,23;140:4,14; 144:14,15reel-type (1) 75:5refer (14) 18:8;87:21;97:6; 98:16;99:2;100:6; 101:16,23;105:13; 114:10;150:6,7,8; 151:14referenced (4) 100:15,17,21;119:2referred (7) 50:21;111:8;148:7; 154:2,6;156:3,5referring (2) 38:22;41:5refers (1) 94:1reflect (7) 50:3;107:17;151:3; 152:10,15;166:20; 169:14reflected (7) 20:5;23:10;57:21; 104:17;152:8;165:18; 177:7reflects (2) 19:15;58:15regarding (10) 17:18;18:14;25:4; 26:3;27:23;38:11;39:5; 95:23;133:23;153:12regardless (1) 4:5reimbursed (1) 92:10relate (7) 103:16;104:9; 105:21;109:20;110:8; 112:16,17related (9) 25:18;38:16;44:1,3; 104:6,11;120:23; 128:16;153:8relates (2) 104:4;112:18relating (3) 37:21;38:1,4relation (1) 138:14relevance (2) 126:3;136:15relevant (8)

30:11;77:18;119:11; 124:22;136:22;137:21; 139:9;141:4relying (1) 28:15remember (6) 10:23;20:4;30:18,21; 31:11;89:13remove (7) 57:3,8;92:9,21;93:5; 98:10,13removed (6) 94:10,12,14,22;95:3; 169:15Renaissance (3) 175:4,5;176:16replace (1) 80:9replayed (2) 52:9,11replica (2) 159:12;164:17replicas (1) 159:8replied (1) 154:2report (5) 31:5,15;92:15;119:2; 120:21Reporter (3) 3:11;8:6,14representation (1) 65:20representative (1) 39:12representing (2) 3:6,21requested (3) 31:6,7;50:19required (6) 72:23;122:3;160:21; 163:4,19;164:16RES (1) 169:20reservation (2) 29:19;30:9reservations (3) 30:6;125:13,17reserved (1) 3:16Residence (2) 169:21,23responded (2) 80:4;154:3response (3) 102:18,22;153:21rest (1) 168:10result (8) 13:7;14:16;23:17; 59:13;74:14;76:11,11; 161:23results (1)


(10) private - results



61:19resumed (2) 41:22;174:11retain (1) 97:3retired (12) 10:2,18,20,23;11:8, 22;17:15,17;19:11; 29:21,22;119:9retirement (1) 21:10review (14) 8:9;35:15;52:10; 158:4;159:3,5,23; 160:5,18;161:1,15; 162:13;163:3,12reviewed (15) 14:11;33:6;34:15; 35:18;43:3;51:20; 52:18;54:3;85:9;105:9; 129:4,16;145:4; 157:11;165:4Right (79) 11:9;14:2,18;17:8; 19:5;20:17;23:19;29:3; 32:19;33:18;34:4,18, 22;37:19;44:17;46:5; 53:6,12;56:10;58:11; 62:8;66:19;67:22;69:3; 72:8,20,21;82:23; 83:12;85:21;88:21; 90:17;93:15;94:21; 96:3,4,6,16;99:6,20; 100:8,13;101:8;103:2; 105:1,16,17;106:1; 109:12;110:3;111:5,7, 10,22;112:2;113:1,6; 115:3;116:1,2,5; 117:21;120:3;121:16; 123:6;126:4,22; 130:15;133:12;139:17; 142:19;145:8;146:9; 165:17;166:6,19; 174:6,9;176:4right-hand (4) 66:22,23;76:1; 159:10River (1) 108:15role (1) 119:16rolled (1) 70:12ROMs (1) 56:2R-O-M-S (1) 56:2room (1) 13:12root (1) 108:12rows (1) 159:1

Rule (3) 32:22;122:6;155:9Rules (1) 3:8ruling (1) 3:16running (1) 146:14

S

SAITH (1) 178:20same (20) 4:6;9:16;10:9,10; 12:16;30:17,22;71:9, 13;99:23;100:3;102:2, 4;107:10;110:19; 125:9;132:4;138:9,18; 169:10sat (2) 176:8,21satisfies (1) 134:5saw (12) 35:22;65:19;69:4; 77:11,14,21;78:1; 79:16;119:19;125:22; 141:15;144:14saying (8) 28:19;71:12;84:14, 16;95:11;111:2; 136:17;144:2schedule (1) 154:7schemes (1) 25:10SCI (1) 26:16science (1) 15:10screen (18) 23:10,12,16;45:1; 57:21;58:16;59:13; 63:9,12;65:9,21;70:12; 74:12;82:5;117:19; 163:20;164:6,17se (3) 15:5;16:8;25:20second (1) 109:23seconds (2) 163:16,17secret (2) 26:16,16section (2) 18:17;129:7security (4) 24:17;26:13,15;27:6seized (3) 48:11;121:1;138:4select (3) 63:1;99:17;117:17

selected (1) 138:7sense (1) 65:16sent (3) 9:1;128:2,11separate (5) 13:12;106:13; 113:10;118:2;146:15separated (1) 172:9separately (1) 83:1sequence (3) 70:12,21;72:18sequentially (4) 70:15,16,20,21serial (8) 93:23;94:1;149:3; 166:10,16,21;167:19; 177:8series (1) 72:6serve (1) 136:11server (8) 63:21;64:10,13; 66:11,16;67:17; 141:20;142:4servers (12) 46:19,22;57:9,15,19; 62:4,7,11,16;120:19; 121:2;137:6serves (1) 56:7services (5) 24:17;26:3;31:6,8; 127:22set (1) 106:8Several (6) 16:23;47:22;52:11; 53:11;163:16;169:9SGC (1) 101:14SGS (1) 47:21share (1) 143:11sheet (2) 8:16;43:19Shop (1) 108:16short (3) 72:20;86:16;166:4shorthand (1) 148:10show (10) 14:2;18:3;32:19; 37:9;51:14,14;90:18; 91:5,9;144:20showed (2) 77:10;78:21

shown (1) 35:20shows (7) 90:11,12,13,19; 107:13,13;112:19sic (1) 33:17side (6) 69:1;96:4,6,16; 99:20;117:21signed (1) 8:12signing (1) 4:9similar (5) 137:6,15;138:3; 159:1,20simply (1) 138:12Sisson (4) 41:6;46:4;171:7; 176:12sit (2) 48:2;132:1site (1) 39:8situation (1) 32:6six (18) 11:16;80:20;83:2,3; 105:15;108:14;109:13, 20;110:8;111:3,8; 112:8,12,17,19;134:5, 10;158:16sleeping (1) 68:9slot (27) 12:6;17:2,14;21:7, 14;55:14,17,23;56:11; 73:12,15,17;75:4,8; 78:12;79:13;127:7,8; 142:13,15,17;143:4,13, 21;144:3,6,14small (2) 18:23;21:5Snack (1) 108:16software (32) 22:17,20,23;23:3,7,9, 14,15,18,23;57:4,9,15; 58:5,10;59:5,8;60:11; 61:1;62:3,11;64:23; 76:20;79:22;109:6; 118:15;120:13,18; 137:6,15;138:3;141:20solely (1) 81:7someone (1) 62:9sometime (1) 157:22Sometimes (4) 13:3;131:1;149:5,11

Sonny (4) 36:19;41:3;43:14; 171:9sorry (15) 18:19;20:17;32:2; 38:20;41:7;55:21; 68:21;96:18;97:9; 101:20;102:11;107:15; 110:4;114:14;173:1sort (2) 141:19;149:3sounded (1) 149:23source (9) 60:11;62:3,15;66:9; 76:20;79:22;109:6; 120:14,19space (3) 99:19;117:15;159:2spaces (1) 158:23speak (1) 8:3specifically (2) 37:4,8specifies (1) 134:9spelled (1) 149:18Spencer (1) 9:10spinning (10) 75:5,12;76:12,14; 79:18;80:15;81:6,10; 82:5,7sports (1) 16:23square (1) 68:23squirrel (1) 131:1staff (1) 22:11stand (1) 169:20standalone (1) 127:18standpoint (1) 109:1start (6) 83:13;103:5;173:14; 175:19,20;176:2started (5) 173:4;175:15,15,16, 23starting (2) 82:16;108:11state (32) 9:5;18:5;22:3;25:13; 28:3;30:8,19;31:9,12; 34:2;39:12;49:10,11; 51:13;52:7;53:8;55:1; 106:21;110:6;118:12;


(11) resumed - state



120:12,17,22;128:14; 133:23;136:11;146:18; 155:17,21;160:1,1; 175:8stated (3) 65:5;80:5;142:3statement (1) 23:8States (3) 125:8;131:21;132:2State's (3) 32:22;139:2;155:9station (1) 47:8stations (3) 46:9;47:4;121:1Statute (2) 3:19;4:4stay (2) 53:1;175:2sticker (1) 110:17still (9) 24:20;25:3,6;68:12; 80:13;81:8;82:6,18; 108:7stipulated (3) 3:5,20;4:7STIPULATIONS (2) 3:3;8:7Stone (1) 9:20stop (4) 71:10;116:8;126:8; 172:1stopped (1) 171:22stored (2) 67:9,14straight (1) 111:2strike (3) 47:2;117:23;133:5stuff (2) 149:2,3submitted (1) 157:16subsequently (1) 37:13subterfuge (1) 108:23Super (8) 105:15;108:15; 109:13,16;111:9; 112:3,10;115:19supervisory (1) 136:8supposed (1) 125:2supposedly (1) 157:16sure (22) 8:19;11:2;27:21;

31:10;49:3;52:3,16,20; 53:4,5;86:10;95:7; 101:1;104:14;111:2; 114:19;115:8;116:14; 130:9;134:18;150:8; 153:1sweepstakes (1) 21:4swipe (1) 55:21switch (12) 44:23;45:1;91:12,16; 92:8;93:2,5;96:3; 97:23;98:1,4,10switches (1) 91:21sworn (1) 8:3symbol (1) 164:3symbols (1) 138:6

T

table (1) 99:18talk (1) 87:4talked (5) 86:22;107:11;127:5; 128:19;139:4talking (10) 20:13;27:7;28:20; 30:14;67:14;103:1; 125:16;143:21;148:9; 150:1technology (1) 33:15telephone (3) 13:23;14:1;155:20telling (2) 101:2;125:21ten (2) 86:12;163:18term (1) 59:11terminals (1) 92:5test (2) 64:23;134:6tested (2) 61:22;62:3testified (33) 8:5;16:10;17:18; 19:14;20:2,9;21:13; 22:2,4;23:3,14,15;24:5, 7,8;27:23;34:8,10; 46:16;47:5;49:9;61:7; 118:20;137:4,14; 138:2,11;139:3; 140:18;152:6;156:19; 157:19,20

testify (4) 18:14;30:23;36:23; 156:23testifying (2) 27:11;135:13testimonies (2) 21:3;27:15testimony (30) 16:20,21;17:9;18:2; 19:6,11;20:20;21:20; 24:10;25:4;29:3;32:4; 38:22;44:4;79:15; 80:14;81:8;82:6;86:1; 103:17;107:12;110:7; 114:9;119:17;136:21; 139:13;141:12;144:11; 145:7;152:10testing (15) 13:3,5;48:11;57:14; 60:23;64:6,12;71:21; 72:22;73:21;76:19; 79:22;109:6;136:6; 141:20Texas (2) 29:19;31:13Thanks (1) 171:13thereby (1) 161:13third (1) 30:15Thirteen (1) 97:14Thirty-two (1) 111:20though (1) 140:2thought (1) 85:2three (10) 29:14;30:3;70:22; 71:2;83:2;99:8;107:4; 118:8;160:11;169:15throughout (1) 156:2ticket (1) 170:18timeline (1) 151:22timely (1) 115:23times (11) 19:16,20;20:9,13; 21:12,14;52:12;53:11; 97:1;165:20;168:18title (1) 50:4today (19) 14:6,19;19:22;34:19; 35:19;36:8;39:2;48:2; 79:1;89:16;132:1,4; 152:6;154:21;155:4; 156:5;167:2,8;175:11

told (43) 12:18;15:2,12,19; 17:5,16;21:18;24:22; 27:3;29:9,13,17;37:7; 39:15;41:17;57:7,12, 19;58:1,9,13;67:21; 68:8;69:22;72:19; 75:10;76:23;79:6; 98:22;100:20;120:11, 16;121:6;122:5; 130:14;134:21;135:17, 19;141:7,11;165:3; 166:9;172:6took (19) 40:8;41:19;42:22; 43:6,14,16;45:23;55:7; 83:3,6,13;106:14; 107:3;108:8;141:13; 146:1;148:9;156:11; 172:12top (5) 26:16;82:16;97:14; 117:19;149:15topics (1) 16:23total (1) 81:16touch (3) 75:17,17;164:17touching (5) 74:12;76:4,5;164:6, 13Towards (1) 21:9town (1) 178:11Traditional (1) 108:14transferred (1) 11:20travel (3) 150:4,9;174:13tray (1) 96:17trial (4) 4:2;32:4;42:10; 167:5trouble (1) 82:18true (8) 15:4;28:22;65:16; 133:21;140:15;141:9; 145:21;152:15truth (3) 8:3,4,4try (5) 46:21;86:5,13;88:21; 91:14trying (5) 82:1;85:15;132:12; 143:1,2turn (6) 80:8;81:6;90:17;

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U

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(12) stated - upon



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V

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W

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X

Xerox (1) 51:12

Y

y'all (1) 176:21year (4) 26:6,7;27:1;32:9years (5) 11:11,16,23;27:16; 30:3Yesterday (40) 32:1;39:17;41:15; 42:21;44:18;45:13; 47:11,17;48:5,9,16; 51:7,16;54:7;58:18; 59:4;62:16;64:1;67:20; 74:19;78:18;79:16; 86:23;119:20;146:1; 147:9;150:11;154:13, 17;159:4,6;160:6; 164:9;165:9,12,13,19, 20;168:19;178:11

Z

zone (2) 150:19;151:4

1

1 (2) 14:3,810 (9) 18:18;19:4;88:8; 89:11,17;91:4;151:23; 170:16;172:1410:00 (6) 151:17,18,19;172:5, 7,2210:30 (4) 40:7,14,15,1611 (7) 87:23;88:1,4,8; 89:11,17;91:911:00 (1) 41:1911:35 (1) 116:8

12 (1) 97:812:00 (6) 40:8;152:1;173:1,2, 8,10120 (2) 26:6,7134 (2) 18:9,18137 (1) 18:1913A-12-20 (1) 129:714 (2) 11:23;97:1515 (3) 97:17;163:18;172:14150 (1) 99:1615-minute (1) 50:1216 (1) 97:1917 (1) 97:2218 (2) 99:1;100:718138 (6) 49:10;53:8;106:22; 107:13;146:18;160:118151 (4) 49:11,15;52:7;160:119 (2) 99:13;100:71967 (1) 15:161968 (1) 20:221979 (2) 15:20;33:191988 (5) 10:14,20;11:7;17:17; 25:171999 (1) 27:18

2

2 (5) 32:21;33:3;34:22; 36:6;155:82/19/2013 (1) 49:202:00 (7) 40:9;152:2;173:4; 174:3,4,5,82:09 (1) 178:1720 (2) 11:11;100:72003 (12) 131:18,18;132:2,10, 17,19,22;133:2,9,15,


(13) upper - 2003



20;134:12014 (3) 53:17;133:10;177:1820-year (1) 20:1421 (1) 100:722 (1) 100:922003 (1) 9:2223 (1) 100:924 (1) 100:1125 (19) 101:17,23;102:6,12, 20;103:2,5;104:1,8,14, 15;110:4,7,12,14,15; 111:4;158:11,1426 (5) 32:22;110:4,7;111:4; 155:9260 (2) 89:12,17265 (1) 19:1627 (3) 110:5,8;111:4279 (6) 19:23;20:9,13;21:12; 101:20;111:2228 (14) 109:22;110:1,8; 111:4,12,19;112:6,11, 16;113:1,5,14;114:1,1028th (3) 11:1,3,729 (12) 109:22;110:1,8; 111:4;112:15;113:2, 10,21;114:5,10,13,152nd (7) 32:9;35:21;36:13,15; 37:17;38:9,15

3

3 (7) 51:11,15,17;77:20; 165:6,19;177:1730 (14) 20:11;41:16;42:20, 22;43:10,11,16;44:18; 46:15;54:8;97:1;99:16; 111:4;115:4300 (1) 99:1631 (7) 86:21;87:7,13;110:2, 8;111:4;115:932 (8) 105:5,6,13;110:16,

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4

4 (10) 52:21;53:2,14,19; 54:1;145:19;147:5; 148:7;149:14;177:84:00 (1) 174:204:15 (4) 152:4;169:23; 174:20,214:30 (3) 40:10;42:7;174:2340 (1) 20:114401 (2) 82:21;149:164800 (1) 128:7

5

5 (5) 86:21;87:7,11,23; 88:45/6/33 (1) 10:16

6

6 (5) 93:16;100:2;158:7,9; 170:360 (2) 27:4;97:1600 (1) 99:1669 (1) 21:16th (4) 32:1,2;53:17;150:10

7

7:35 (1)

170:6744 (1) 145:8777 (1) 101:117th (2) 37:17;38:18

8

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9

9 (5) 88:8;89:6,11,17; 90:179:00 (1) 176:890 (2) 97:1;99:1693 (1) 133:998 (1) 78:4


(14) 2014 - 98

Exhibit B

In The Matter Of:State of Alabama vs.

825 Electronic Gambling Devices, et al.

William L. Holmes

July 3, 2014

Baker Realtime Reporting and Video Services

250 Commerce Street

Third Floor, Suite One

Montgomery, Alabama 36104

www.bakerrealtime.com

Original File 7-3-14 William L. Holmes.txt

Min-U-Script® with Word Index

State of Alabama vs.825 Electronic Gambling Devices, et al.

William L. HolmesJuly 3, 2014

Page 1

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF GREENE COUNTY STATE OF ALABAMA STATE OF ALABAMA, Plaintiff, vs. CASE NO. CV-2010-00020 825 ELECTRONIC GAMBLING DEVICES, et al., Defendants. * * * * * * * * The deposition of WILLIAM L. HOLMES was taken before Cornelia J. Baker, Certified Court Reporter, ACCR 290, and Certified Shorthand Reporter, as Commissioner, on Thursday, July 3, 2014, commencing at approximately 9:02 a.m., at the State of Alabama, Office of the Attorney General, 501 Washington Avenue, Montgomery, Alabama, pursuant to the stipulations set forth herein.

Page 2

1 * * * * * * * 2 APPEARANCES 3 4 Representing the Plaintiff: 5 MR. H. SONNY REAGAN 6 MR. JOHN L. KACHELMAN, III Assistant Attorneys General 7 501 Washington Avenue Montgomery, Alabama 36104 8 334.242.7300 [email protected] 9 [email protected] 10 Representing the Defendants:11 MR. JOHN M. BOLTON12 MS. CHARLANNA W. SPENCER Attorneys at Law13 Hill, Hill, Carter, Franco, Cole & Black, P.C.14 425 South Perry Street Montgomery, Alabama 3610415 334.834.7600 [email protected] [email protected] 17 MR. WILLIAM G. SOMERVILLE, III18 MR. ANDREW P. WALSH Attorneys at Law19 Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz, P.C.20 Wells Fargo Tower 420 20th Street North21 Suite 1400 Birmingham, Alabama 3520322 205.250.8375 [email protected] [email protected]

Page 3

1 (Appearances continued) 2 MR. J. ERIC GETTY Attorney at Law 3 Balch & Bingham, LLP 1901 Sixth Avenue North 4 Suite 1500 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 5 205.226.8789 [email protected] 6 7 MR. JOSEPH W. CARLISLE MR. MITCHEL HAMPTON BOLES 8 Attorneys at Law Gilpin Givhan, P.C. 9 3595 Grandview Parkway Suite 40010 Birmingham, Alabama 35243 205.547.554011 [email protected] [email protected] 13 14 * * * * * * * * 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Page 4

1 * * * * * * * * 2 3 STIPULATIONS 4 5 It is hereby stipulated and 6 agreed by and between counsel representing 7 the parties that the deposition of WILLIAM 8 L. HOLMES is taken pursuant to the Rules of 9 Civil Procedure, and that said deposition10 may be taken before Cornelia J. Baker,11 Certified Court Reporter, as Commissioner,12 without the formality of a commission; that13 objections to questions, other than14 objections as to the form of the questions,15 need not be made at this time, but may be16 reserved for a ruling at such time as the17 deposition may be offered into evidence, or18 used for any other purpose by either party19 hereto, provided by the Statute.20 It is further stipulated and agreed by21 and between counsel representing the22 parties in this case, that the filing of23 the deposition of WILLIAM L. HOLMES is


(1) Pages 1 - 4



Page 5

1 hereby waived, and that said deposition may 2 be introduced at the trial of this case or 3 used in any other manner by either party 4 hereto provided for by the Statute, 5 regardless of the waiving of the filing of 6 same. 7 It is further stipulated and agreed by 8 and between counsel and the witness that 9 the reading and signing of the deposition10 by the witness is hereby not waived.11 12 * * * * * * * *13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Page 6

1 * * * * * * * * 2 I N D E X 3 4 EXAMINATION PAGE 5 BY MR. BOLTON: 9 BY MR. SOMERVILLE: 171 6 BY MR. REAGAN: 222 BY MR. BOLTON: 224 7 8 EXHIBIT PAGE 9 Defendants' Exhibit Number 1 ........ 17 Notice of Deposition10 Defendants' Exhibit Number 2 ........ 2911 Notice of State's Rule 26 Expert Disclosure12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 3 ........ 6213 Emergency Professional Services Contract between the Office of14 Attorney General and Bill Holmes & Associates15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 4 ........ 10216 Legal Services Contract Review Report17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 5 ........ 10318 May 20, 2014, Letter from Sonny Reagan to Williams Holmes19 Defendants' Exhibit Number 6 ........ 10520 Machine examination notes made by Mr. Holmes, 7/2/14, at the Alabama21 State Surplus Warehouse, 4590 Mobile Highway, Montgomery, Alabama22 Defendants' Exhibit Number 7........ 10923 Photograph

Page 7

1 (Exhibit Index continued) 2 Defendants' Exhibit Number 8......... 109 Photograph 3 Defendants' Exhibit Number 9......... 109 4 Photograph 5 Defendants' Exhibit Number 10........ 109 Photograph 6 Defendants' Exhibit Number 11........ 109 7 Photograph 8 Defendants' Exhibit Number 12........ 109 Photograph 9 Defendants' Exhibit Number 13........ 10910 Photograph 11 Defendants' Exhibit Number 14........ 109 Photograph12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 15........ 10913 Photograph 14 Defendants' Exhibit Number 16........ 109 Photograph15 Defendants' Exhibit Number 17........ 10916 Photograph 17 Defendants' Exhibit Number 18........ 109 Photograph18 Defendants' Exhibit Number 19........ 10919 Photograph 20 Defendants' Exhibit Number 20........ 109 Photograph21 Defendants' Exhibit Number 21........ 10922 Photograph 23

Page 8

1 (Exhibit Index continued) 2 Defendants' Exhibit Number 22 ........109 Photograph 3 Defendants' Exhibit Number 23 ........109 4 Photograph 5 Defendants' Exhibit Number 24 ........109 Photograph 6 Defendants' Exhibit Number 25 ........109 7 Photograph 8 Defendants' Exhibit Number 26 ........109 Photograph 9 Defendants' Exhibit Number 27 ........10910 Photograph 11 Defendants' Exhibit Number 28 ........109 Photograph12 Defendants' Exhibit Number 29 ........14413 13-A-12-20, Criminal Code, Article 2, Gambling Offenses, Division 1,14 General Provisions, pages 1012-1013 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23


(2) Pages 5 - 8



Page 9

1 WILLIAM L. HOLMES, 2 The Witness, having first been duly sworn or 3 affirmed to speak the truth, the whole 4 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified 5 as follows: 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. BOLTON: 8 Q. Would you state your full name, 9 please, sir?10 A. William L. Holmes, H-O-L-M-E-S.11 Q. Mr. Holmes, we've never met12 before to my knowledge; is that correct?13 A. Right.14 Q. Although I thought I heard15 Mr. Sertell refer to you a time or two. My16 name is John Bolton, and this is my law17 partner, Charlanna Spencer. We represent18 Greenetrack in this case. We have a few19 questions for you this morning.20 A. I'm going to hold you to that,21 a few questions.22 Q. They may have a few, and he may23 have a few. I think it's going to be all day

Page 10

1 singing and prayer on the grounds. 2 Sir, what is your address? 3 MR. REAGAN: Before we get 4 started, do you want to cover the 5 normal stipulations? 6 MR. BOLTON: Yes. 7 Usual stipulations? 8 THE COURT REPORTER: Yes. 9 A. You have a copy of my vita.10 Q. Yes, sir, I do.11 A. It's on there.12 Q. Well, go ahead and tell me13 where you live.14 A. 803 Stonegate Drive, Annandale,15 Virginia, A-N-N-A-N-D-A-L-E.16 Q. And you're employed?17 A. Retired.18 Q. Retired.19 A. I have my own consulting firm,20 Bill Holmes & Associates.21 Q. And what is the address of22 Bill Holmes & Associates?23 A. The same.

Page 11

1 Q. And how long have you had 2 Bill Holmes & Associates? 3 A. Since 1988. 4 Q. And that's when you retired 5 from the FBI? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. What month did you retire from 8 the FBI, sir? 9 A. October 28th.10 Q. And your date of birth is11 May 6th, 1933?12 A. Yes.13 Q. Now, as I understand it, you14 worked with the FBI for 20 years starting in15 1968; is that correct?16 A. Yes.17 Q. For the first six years, what18 did you do?19 A. I was a field agent, working20 organized crime in gambling cases.21 Q. Where were you stationed?22 A. First office was New Orleans;23 second was Buffalo, New York. And the third

Page 12

1 was headquarters, laboratory division. 2 Q. What types of gambling 3 violations did you investigate when you were 4 a field agent? 5 A. There are several federal 6 statutes that I investigated. 7 Q. Okay. Which ones? 8 A. ITWI, Illegal Gambling 9 Business, Interstate Transportation Gambling10 Information. There are a couple of others,11 but I don't quite remember. It's been12 awhile.13 Q. Okay. I understand. And then14 for the other 14 years of your tenure with15 the FBI, where did you work?16 A. In the laboratory in the17 gambling unit of the FBI laboratory at the18 headquarters in Washington DC.19 Q. And what did you do in the lab?20 A. I examined evidence submitted21 by state, local and federal agencies, and22 then wrote a report as to my findings, and23 then testified as an expert witness.


(3) Pages 9 - 12



Page 13

1 Q. Let me ask you this: Who was 2 your boss during those 14 years? 3 A. I had three or four of them. 4 And they're all retired now. 5 Q. All right. Who was your last 6 boss when you worked at the lab for the FBI? 7 A. I believe it was Art Everhart, 8 and I don't know where he is now. 9 Q. Was he the director of the lab,10 sir?11 A. No. He was the unit chief.12 Q. Unit chief. And who did he13 report to?14 A. The system director of the15 laboratory division.16 Q. And what was his name?17 A. I don't recall. Because18 they've changed it since I've been there.19 Q. And was there a director of the20 lab that was over that assistance, sir?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Do you recall his name?23 A. No, because I had no dealings

Page 14

1 with him. 2 Q. What was your title when you 3 worked in the lab? 4 A. Supervisory special agent. 5 Q. Okay. And did you have any 6 personnel that reported to you? 7 A. I had three -- well, it was 8 three assistants, or technicians, and then it 9 went down to two. And they assisted me in my10 analysis of the material and writing reports.11 Q. What types of evidence did you12 examine when you worked in the lab, you and13 your technicians, from 1975 to 1988?14 A. Well, '75 to '78, it was15 basically gambling paraphernalia for16 bookmaking operations, including numbers,17 sports betting. There was also prostitution18 records, loan sharking. I did say numbers, I19 think.20 Q. You did, yes, sir.21 A. And then after that, I believe22 it was in '78 when the video machines were23 introduced into the commercial area, I

Page 15

1 devoted a lot of time to working those cases. 2 Q. Now, what type of analysis 3 would you perform on a video machine? 4 A. It depends on whether I had 5 played it before or I was familiar with it. 6 I would most likely, if I hadn't, conduct an 7 experiment where I would play the device 8 several thousand times, record the 9 information generated, and make a decision as10 to what that indicated.11 Q. Now, what were you looking for12 when you examined these video devices?13 A. Well, play characteristics and14 operational characteristics.15 Q. Now, when you say video devices16 that you were looking at in '78, can you give17 me some examples of types of video devices18 that you were examining at that time?19 A. Draw poker, in between. There20 were some that were disguised as -- like, for21 instance, draw poker, Dwarfs was manufactured22 by IGT.23 Q. Dwarfs?

Page 16

1 A. Dwarfs, D-W-A-R-F. They had 2 five dwarfs with five different colors -- or 3 four different colors rather. And they had 4 different types of titles for winning 5 combinations. Like a family would be five of 6 the same color. A run, I think it's listed 7 in my article what they would be. 8 Q. Okay. And this game was 9 manufactured by whom, you say?10 A. IGT, I believe.11 Q. And was it an amusement device12 or --13 A. No. Gambling device.14 Q. Gambling device?15 A. Right.16 Q. Okay. What other types of17 devices, if you recall?18 A. Slot machines, which had19 traditional reels, and you had some that had20 different titles on it, like Farm Game where21 the images were of farm implements or fruits22 and vegetables, etc.23 Q. And are you appearing here


(4) Pages 13 - 16



Page 17

1 today pursuant to a deposition notice, sir? 2 A. I just received the notice 3 yesterday. 4 Q. You received it yesterday. Was 5 it handed to you yesterday? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. By Mr. Reagan? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Let me show you what we've10 marked as Exhibit Number 1 to your11 deposition, which purports to be a notice of12 deposition of William L. Holmes. Is that the13 document you saw yesterday that you received14 from Mr. Reagan?15 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit16 Number 1 was marked for17 identification and is attached18 hereto.)19 (The Witness reviewed the20 document.)21 A. Yes.22 Q. And was yesterday the first23 time that you had seen that document?

Page 18

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Let me ask you this: When did 3 you arrive in Alabama? 4 A. Yesterday. 5 Q. Yesterday. What time? 6 A. I believe it was around 1:30. 7 Q. Now, I know there have been 8 some objections to documents. But I 9 understand that the State has agreed to10 produce some documents in response to our11 request in the deposition notice. Do you12 have those available now or ...13 MR. REAGAN: We do. We have14 copies for all counsel, all parties15 rather, of Mr. Holmes' contract16 with the State. There is a -- this17 is an emergency contract. There's18 a second contract that I will get19 to you all that is over at the20 legislature; it's for a two-year21 period of time, I believe. It has22 not been signed yet. This is for23 the 60-day contract.

Page 19

1 And in addition to that, 2 I believe in the notice, there were 3 documents that you-all requested, I 4 believe what the Witness had 5 reviewed, if I recall. And in our 6 objection yesterday, we, the State, 7 brought to your attention what 8 documents were reviewed by the 9 Witness, which I believe we agreed10 off the Record earlier are all11 public records, and you're not12 asking for a copy of those cases.13 MR. BOLTON: I'm not sure I14 agreed they were public records. I15 mean, I think that the --16 MR. REAGAN: They're17 published cases.18 MR. BOLTON: Surely if they19 are published cases and they are20 other documents that you've already21 produced in this case, that you22 identified it in your response.23 MR. REAGAN: Yes.

Page 20

1 BY MR. BOLTON: 2 Q. Have you seen the State's 3 objection to our deposition notice, 4 Mr. Holmes? 5 A. No. 6 MR. BOLTON: Do you have a 7 copy that he can look at? 8 MR. REAGAN: I do not. 9 BY MR. BOLTON: 10 Q. Well, let me ask you then:11 What documents and materials and items have12 you reviewed in preparation for your13 deposition?14 A. I was furnished some cases and15 Alabama law.16 Q. What Alabama law?17 A. What constitutes a gambling18 device and also the definition of what a19 Bingo game is, a description.20 Q. Is that the statute?21 A. I believe it was -- yeah, I22 believe it was. I'm not sure.23 Q. Do you have that with you?


(5) Pages 17 - 20



Page 21

1 A. No. 2 Q. Where is that? 3 A. Probably up the stairs. I 4 don't carry that with me. 5 Q. So you were given a copy of a 6 statute that defines a gambling device, 7 correct? 8 A. No. What gambling is. 9 Q. What gambling is?10 A. Right.11 Q. You were given a statute that12 defines gambling?13 A. Right.14 Q. And then you were given a15 statute that defines Bingo?16 A. Right. I believe it was a17 statute, but I think there was also a case.18 Q. So you also got some cases?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Do you know how many cases you21 got?22 A. No.23 Q. Was it more than one?

Page 22

1 A. I really don't remember. 2 Q. Okay. And then I understand 3 from the State's objection filed yesterday, 4 that you also have reviewed some photographs 5 and video evidence that was produced by the 6 State in this case? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. When did you first get that? 9 A. Oh, I don't remember the date,10 but it's got to be at least two-and-a-half11 weeks ago.12 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you about13 Bill Holmes & Associates. How many employees14 does Bill Holmes & Associates have?15 A. One.16 Q. And that's you?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Does Bill Holmes & Associates19 operate a lab?20 A. Theoretically, yes, meaning21 that I will analyze materials sent to me, but22 I don't have any equipment such as a laser or23 reflective light aspects or anything like

Page 23

1 that. 2 Q. Kobetron? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Is your lab such that it is 5 certified by any gaming jurisdiction to test 6 gaming devices? 7 A. No. The only authority that 8 recognized it is when I testified as an 9 expert witness and accepted as an expert10 witness.11 Q. Is your lab accredited to ISO12 17025?13 A. No.14 Q. Are you familiar with that15 standard?16 A. Yes.17 Q. Has it ever been accredited to18 ISO 17025?19 A. No.20 Q. Does your lab have any type of21 equipment?22 A. No.23 Q. Does your lab employ

Page 24

1 mathematicians? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Electronic engineers? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Computer engineers? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Software engineers? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Statisticians?10 A. No.11 Q. Has your lab ever been asked to12 certify a gaming device?13 A. To certify meaning that based14 on my experience that I say this particular15 advice is not such and such?16 Q. No, sir. What I'm asking you17 is: Has any regulatory authority, gaming18 commission, manufacturer, ever asked you to19 certify a device as a slot machine or a20 particular type of gaming device?21 A. No.22 Q. Have you ever been asked to23 certify any electronic Bingo machines?


(6) Pages 21 - 24



Page 25

1 A. No. 2 Q. Is your lab certified by any 3 gaming jurisdiction in the United States? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Now, I understand that you have 6 a Bachelor's degree in economics? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. From North Park College. Is 9 that in Chicago?10 A. Yes.11 Q. And where did you get that?12 A. When?13 Q. Yes, sir. What was the date14 you got your degree?15 A. Good question. I'd have to16 look that up. I think it was something17 like -- let's see '67, but I'm not sure.18 Q. That was before you went to19 work with the FBI?20 A. Yes.21 Q. And then you also have a22 Master's degree in forensic science from23 George Washington?

Page 26

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And when did you get that 3 degree? 4 A. I'm not sure. I think it was 5 '79, but I'm not sure. 6 Q. On your CV, you list a number 7 of lectures that you have given over the 8 course of your employment with the FBI. Do 9 you recall that?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Did any of your lectures refer12 to electronic Bingo machines?13 A. No.14 Q. You have a category called15 special presentations also. Did any of your16 special presentations refer to or include17 electronic Bingo devices?18 A. No.19 Q. Now, you've written a number of20 articles as well, I think one called21 "Latent" -- what's the name of it? I'm not22 recalling it right now.23 A. Latent Influence. I don't

Page 27

1 really recall the total name. 2 Q. And that was written back in 3 the '70s, wasn't it? 4 A. No. I believe it was '84. 5 Q. Eighty-four, okay. And it 6 doesn't refer to electronic Bingo devices, 7 does it? 8 A. Not Bingo. But the Bingo, in 9 my opinion, Bingo devices fits within the10 category of electronic gambling devices.11 Q. Now, is it called "Bingo Games12 Concepts and Latent Influences"?13 A. Right.14 Q. And that was an FBI law15 enforcement bulletin, right?16 A. Yes.17 Q. Now, you've also identified18 some testimony that you've given in federal19 court?20 A. Yes.21 Q. Unless I'm mistaken, all of22 those cases, weren't they bookmaking cases?23 A. Not all of them, no.

Page 28

1 Q. Were 90 percent of them 2 bookmaking cases? 3 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 4 form. 5 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry? 6 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 7 form. 8 You can answer. 9 A. I couldn't tell you if they10 were or not because I don't list them11 according to the category. I listed them12 according to what the aspect of the case was.13 Q. Well, one of your specialties14 while you were with the FBI was bookmaking15 investigations, was it not, and loan16 sharking?17 A. Also video gambling devices.18 Q. Well, did any of your testimony19 in federal court involve video gambling20 devices?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Which cases involved video23 gambling devices?


(7) Pages 25 - 28



Page 29

1 A. One, I believe, 294 devices in 2 Pennsylvania. There were two decisions on 3 that. 4 Q. I'm talking about federal court 5 right now. 6 A. That was the federal case. 7 Q. Okay. 194 gambling devices? 8 A. 294. 9 Q. 294. Any others?10 A. I'd have to look at my vita to11 let you know.12 Q. All right. Well, let's look at13 it.14 Let me show you what we have15 marked as Defendants' Exhibit Number 2 to16 your deposition, which is entitled Notice of17 State's Rule 26 Expert Disclosure.18 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit19 Number 2 was marked for20 identification and is attached21 hereto.)22 (The Witness reviewed the23 document.)

Page 30

1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. My first question is: 3 Mr. Holmes, have you seen this expert 4 disclosure form before today? 5 A. I think so, but I'm not sure. 6 Q. Well, appended to the expert 7 disclosure is a copy of your CV, is it not? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And you prepared this CV, yes,10 sir?11 A. That's correct.12 Q. Did you prepare the expert13 disclosure?14 A. No.15 Q. Did you review it before it was16 filed with the Court?17 A. No.18 Q. Now, we were talking about a19 category of your CV called testimonies.20 Would you turn to that? It starts on page21 five. Do you see that?22 A. Yes.23 Q. The first section lists nine

Page 31

1 cases. Do you see those, United States 2 versus somebody? Do you see that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Were all of those cases 5 bookmaking and loan sharking cases? 6 A. Those, yes. 7 Q. Now, of the remaining cases 8 from Missouri, Maryland, Canada, Hawaii, and 9 Ohio, which of those remaining cases involved10 video gambling devices?11 A. Missouri. The three -- no, I'm12 sorry, the two Maryland cases. The Canadian13 cases, and the one in Hawaii of which I14 testified in 12 cases in Hawaii. This is the15 one that established criteria for the16 Hawaiian PD, or Honolulu PD.17 Ohio, on two occasions. Then18 you have Pennsylvania, two -- three cases out19 of Pennsylvania. Tennessee -- I'm sorry,20 Texas. And there's one there called Bingo21 out of Florida.22 Q. One called what, sir?23 A. Bingo, "Quarters Up." That's

Page 32

1 page eight at the top. And then Australia. 2 Q. Let's go back to Missouri. 3 What kind of video game was involved in the 4 Missouri case? 5 A. I don't recall, but I'm pretty 6 sure it was draw poker devices. 7 Q. Okay. And what was the date of 8 your testimony in that case? 9 A. I'd have to look at the case10 itself. I don't know.11 Q. Well, we've got an unemployment12 cite? It says "682 Southwest," and then it13 doesn't have the rest of the cite.14 A. Right. That's all I had.15 Q. Was it while you were working16 for the FBI, sir?17 A. Yes, it was.18 Q. So it would have been before19 October of 1988?20 A. Yes.21 Q. And then your testimony in22 Maryland in the first case was in 1984, was23 it not?


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Page 33

1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And what kind of video display 3 devices were in the Marlin Dean case? 4 A. That I'm not sure, but I would 5 assume it's video poker as well as slot 6 machines. 7 Q. Now, what about the Owens case? 8 That was also in 1984. What kind of machines 9 were those?10 A. Same, same.11 Q. Okay. And then the two cases12 you testified in Canada in '86 and '80, what13 kind of devices were those?14 A. That was, I think,15 400-something poker machines, slot machines,16 and slot machines with different names.17 Q. And then the Hawaii case, what18 kind of video devices were those?19 A. Same, slot machines, draw20 poker. No Bingo.21 Q. And that was in 1984?22 A. Yes.23 Q. And then Ohio is a 1985 case.

Page 34

1 It also involved draw poker? 2 A. Draw poker. 3 Q. Okay. And the other Ohio case 4 was a bookmaking case, correct, The State 5 versus Wac? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And then the two cases in 8 Pennsylvania, the first one is in 1989. What 9 kind of devices were those?10 A. Same. Draw poker, slot11 machines.12 Q. And then you've got another --13 it's got the same title. Was that a14 different case or just a continuation of the15 first case?16 A. A different case from the17 standpoint that that case made a decision as18 to whether or not disassembled devices could19 be identified as gambling devices.20 Q. Disassembled devices?21 A. Yes.22 Q. But both of those cases23 involved draw poker devices?

Page 35

1 A. And slot machines, yes, sir. 2 Q. And slot machines, okay. And 3 the case in Tennessee. I believe you 4 testified there, it looks like, in 1984 or 5 the decision was in 1984, correct? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. That was while you were with 8 the FBI? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. What kind of machines were11 those?12 A. Basically the same. That's13 what populated the area at that time.14 Q. And then the Texas case, it15 says, "State of Texas versus Gambling16 Device." What gambling device was involved17 in that case, sir?18 A. Same.19 Q. Was it a poker machine?20 A. Yes.21 Q. And your testimony in that case22 was around 1993?23 A. Yes.

Page 36

1 Q. Have you testified in any 2 sweepstakes games in Florida? 3 A. Sweepstakes? 4 Q. Yes, sir. 5 A. Not titled as such, no. 6 Q. Now, the James Melton case, you 7 testified in that case, it looks like around 8 1996. Do you see that? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Starts on page seven and goes11 on to page eight?12 A. Right.13 Q. And you call it a Bingo game14 entitled "Quarters Up." Do you see that?15 A. Yes.16 Q. How many games were at issue in17 that case, if you recall?18 A. It's hard to answer it because19 it wasn't the game itself. It was the way20 the game was conducted that was being21 challenged. They were playing a true Bingo22 game; however, they were offering the players23 an opportunity to increase their payoff by


(9) Pages 33 - 36



Page 37

1 betting between the calls of the announcer. 2 Q. So this was a paper card Bingo 3 game where the facility offered an additional 4 gaming or gambling option? 5 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 6 form. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. This was not a video Bingo game 9 was it?10 A. No. As I said, it was a live11 or true Bingo game.12 Q. Did you issue a report in that13 case?14 A. I can't recall, but I don't15 think I did.16 Q. But you testified in that case?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Did you testify at trial?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Did you testify in deposition?21 A. No.22 Q. Now, the other case, State of23 Florida versus Laurencio Lira. Do you see

Page 38

1 that? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. I'd asked you about sweepstakes 4 a minute ago. Didn't this case involve a 5 sweepstakes-type device? 6 A. No. 7 Q. What did it involve? 8 A. It involved a reader and a role 9 of tickets. The reader would dispense the10 ticket and also display on a video screen the11 number on the ticket as to whether it was a12 winner or not. The ticket was dispensed and13 the player had the ticket.14 Q. And you described that in your15 CV as a sweepstakes device dispensing phone16 cards?17 A. That's what they had. Yes,18 that's what they called it.19 Q. Now, did the case in Australia,20 I believe you told me, that also involved21 video devices?22 A. Yes.23 Q. What kind of video devices did

Page 39

1 that involve? 2 A. The owner of IGT, I believe 3 Redd, Si Redd, was being challenged by the 4 Australian Gaming Commission because his 5 machines were involved in many gambling cases 6 in the U.S. And they were trying to make a 7 decision as to whether or not to allow his 8 devices into Australia. 9 Q. And there was a lawsuit in10 Australia?11 A. No. It was a testimony before12 the commission, I believe it was.13 Q. Licensing Division of the New14 South Wales Police Department?15 A. That's who subpoenaed me to go16 to Australia.17 Q. Okay. And did you give18 testimony in that proceeding?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Now, all of these cases where21 you testified, do you have copies of your22 testimony?23 A. No.

Page 40

1 Q. In any of these cases where you 2 prepared expert reports, do you have copies 3 of your expert reports? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Now, the Bingo case you talked 6 about entitled Quarters Up -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. -- where was that Bingo 9 facility located?10 A. I think Pinellas County.11 Doesn't it state that?12 Q. Yes, sir, you do. Was it13 located on an Indian reservation?14 A. No.15 Q. Now, you also say in your CV16 that you've been qualified in excess of 26517 times in local, state, and federal courts in18 33 states as well as Canada and Australia?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Have you testified over 26521 times, sir?22 A. Yes. It's up to about 275 now.23 Q. When was the last time you were


(10) Pages 37 - 40



Page 41

1 qualified as an expert witness and testified 2 in court? 3 A. That's a good question. I 4 don't recall. 5 Q. Has it been in the last three 6 years? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Been in the last five years? 9 A. I believe so.10 Q. You don't remember what kind of11 case it was or where it was?12 A. No, I don't.13 Q. How many times have you14 testified as an expert witness and been15 qualified by a court since 2003?16 A. I don't recall.17 Q. How many times have you been18 qualified as an expert witness and received19 as an expert witness since you retired from20 the FBI?21 A. I know at least five. But it's22 probably more.23 Q. Can you identify those five

Page 42

1 cases? 2 A. Canada, I believe, is one. 3 It's not listed there. Pennsylvania was 4 another one, 294 gambling devices. The one 5 in Texas was in '93. Florida was '92 and '96 6 and '99. That's all I can remember. 7 Q. And that's all you've got 8 listed on your CV, is it not? 9 A. That's correct. And they're10 listed there because I believe that the point11 that was made in that particular case was12 important.13 Q. Now, the Canada case you said14 was not listed on your CV. What kind of case15 was that?16 A. I think it's listed here.17 Q. Okay. Maybe I misunderstood18 you, sir.19 A. No, I'm sorry. That was '86.20 Q. '86 and '80, was it not?21 A. Right.22 Q. And both of those testimonies23 would have been given while you were with the

Page 43

1 FBI? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. The last case I see listed on 4 your CV, the latest one was in 1999. Have 5 you testified as an expert witness since 6 1999, sir? 7 A. I really don't recall. I think 8 I have, but I'm not sure. 9 Q. Now, have you ever testified10 and been qualified as an expert witness in11 any court in Alabama, state or federal?12 A. I don't believe so.13 Q. And none of the cases where you14 testified, 275 of them, involved electronic15 Bingo devices, did they?16 A. No.17 Q. And I understand you're not an18 engineer?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. You don't have any engineers on21 staff?22 A. That's correct.23 Q. You're not an expert in

Page 44

1 computer programming? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. You're not a software engineer? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. You never designed any 6 computer, have you? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Have you ever examined computer 9 software and then testified about your10 examination?11 A. No.12 Q. Have you ever tested any13 computer software?14 A. No.15 Q. Ever tested any source code?16 A. No.17 Q. Ever tested any source code and18 testified about it?19 A. No.20 Q. Ever designed a gaming device?21 A. No.22 Q. Ever written any software for a23 gaming device?


(11) Pages 41 - 44



Page 45

1 A. No. 2 Q. Ever certified a game in 3 writing as a Bingo device? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Ever testified that a 6 particular game is a game of Bingo? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Or not the game of Bingo? 9 A. No.10 Q. Have you ever been asked to11 certify a Class Two Bingo game?12 A. No.13 Q. Do you know what a Class Two14 Bingo game is?15 A. No. I think it's one of the16 categories that the Indian Gaming Commission17 has certified for a reservation to have a18 casino with certain games.19 Q. And that's pursuant to the20 Congressional Act, right?21 A. Yes.22 Q. And that Congressional Act23 wasn't enacted until about the time you

Page 46

1 retired, was it? 2 A. No, I disagree. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. There may be that act, but 5 there were laws on the book that regulate 6 types of games that Indian reservations could 7 employ in their casinos. 8 Q. Was the Indian Gaming 9 Regulatory Act enacted in 1987 or 1988?10 A. I don't know.11 Q. That would have been about the12 time you retired, would it not?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Was there such a thing as a15 Class Two Bingo device before you retired?16 A. I don't know if it was a Class17 Two Bingo. I know there were class two18 devices.19 Q. They were in existence before20 you retired?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Wasn't it IGRA that brought23 about the definition of a class two device?

Page 47

1 A. Is that the New Jersey Gaming 2 Commission? 3 Q. No, sir. IGRA is the Indian 4 Gambling Regulatory Act enacted by Congress. 5 And I may be wrong on the date. '87 or '88 6 is my recollection. 7 A. I don't know the date. 8 Q. Did you ever testify about any 9 class two gaming devices while you were with10 the FBI?11 A. I can't recall whether or not I12 testified. But I know in one case, and I13 think it was Texas, that they were taking an14 Indian reservation to trial because they had15 Bingo devices on the premises that were16 illegal. And I don't know whether it was17 lack of a compact or that they were illegal18 under state law, but I did not testify.19 Q. Did you write a report?20 A. No.21 Q. Was that while you were with22 the FBI?23 A. No. After.

Page 48

1 Q. Do you remember what year that 2 would have been? 3 A. No, not really. 4 Q. Is it one of the cases listed 5 on your -- 6 A. No. 7 Q. Just so our record will be 8 clear, I'm sometimes not finished with my 9 question because you're answering me before I10 finish it.11 A. I shall wait.12 Q. I want this lady to be able to13 get down everything that you and I say, and14 if I don't get to finish my question, the15 Record may not be clear. I think my question16 was --17 MR. BOLTON: Will you just18 read back my question?19 (Whereupon, The Court Reporter20 read the requested portion21 of the deposition proceedings.)22 Q. Is the Texas case where you23 believe that you were involved in one of the


(12) Pages 45 - 48



Page 49

1 cases listed on your CV? 2 A. And I said no, because you did 3 finish the question. 4 Q. According to my partner, IGRA 5 was enacted on October 17, 1988? 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. About 11 days before you 8 retired, correct? 9 A. If that's what she has, I guess10 so.11 Q. Is it still your testimony that12 you participated in class two devices while13 you were with the FBI in either the14 investigation or testimony or preparing15 reports?16 MR. REAGAN: Object to the17 form.18 Q. You may answer.19 A. It's my testimony that I was20 involved. Because the class two gambling21 devices were specified as of the type.22 Q. And it was known as a class two23 device prior to the enactment of IGRA; is

Page 50

1 that your testimony? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. What types of class two devices 4 did you participate in some investigation? 5 MR. REAGAN: Object. 6 A. I don't recall. But I'm pretty 7 sure on one occasion it was Bingo devices, 8 which nothing came of it. 9 Q. What types of devices are10 included under class two?11 A. I don't recall.12 Q. Now, have you testified as an13 expert in compulsive gambling cases?14 A. No.15 Q. Are you familiar with the16 Compulsive Gambling Center in Baltimore,17 Maryland?18 A. I was, but we closed it.19 Q. How were you affiliated?20 A. I was the secretary of the21 corporation.22 Q. For what period of time, sir?23 A. I think it was '91 to probably

Page 51

1 2000. 2 Q. What kind of services did the 3 Compulsive Gambling Center provide? 4 A. We were a treatment facility 5 for compulsive gamblers. 6 Q. How many employees did you 7 have? 8 A. Well, it varied. There were 9 three permanent employees, but we also had, I10 think, five consultants that came in and11 provided services to the patients.12 Q. And you were the secretary of13 the corporation?14 A. Yes.15 Q. Did you draw a salary?16 A. No. That sucks.17 Q. Excuse me?18 A. It sucks.19 Q. But it stopped being active as20 of 2000, correct?21 A. Yes.22 Q. This is while you still had23 your company Bill Holmes & Associates?

Page 52

1 A. Oh, yes. 2 Q. And you also had an entity 3 called Forensic Center for Compulsive 4 Gambling? 5 A. Not me. 6 Q. Not you? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Were you ever affiliated with 9 that?10 A. The owner.11 Q. Who was the owner?12 A. Dr. Valerie C. Lorenz.13 Q. How were you affiliated with14 Ms. Lorenz?15 A. She's my partner.16 Q. She was your partner in the17 Forensic Center for Compulsive Gambling?18 A. She was the director.19 Q. Okay. And how were you20 affiliated?21 A. I told you, treasurer.22 Q. I'm sorry. I missed that. I23 knew you were a partner. Were you a partner


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Page 53

1 also in the Forensic Center for Compulsive 2 Gambling? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Is she your social partner; is 5 that what you mean? 6 A. Yes. 7 MR. REAGAN: Objection. 8 It's not relevant. 9 Q. Is that center still active?10 A. No.11 Q. When did it go out of business?12 A. 2000, like I mentioned.13 Q. Is the Compulsive Gambling14 Center and the Forensic Center for Compulsive15 Gambling the same entity?16 A. No.17 Q. Same business?18 A. No.19 Q. Did they both go out of20 business in 2000?21 A. The Compulsive Gambling Center22 did, but the other was a sporadic. I guess23 if she got a client, she'd open up the

Page 54

1 center. 2 Q. Okay. Was she the only 3 employee of the center? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you receive any income from 6 the center? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Does your firm still provide 9 security services and background10 investigations for employment?11 A. Bill Holmes & Associates?12 Q. Yes, sir.13 A. Yes.14 Q. Also it does forensic15 examination of business records, does it not?16 A. Gambling records, not business17 records.18 Q. Did you ever testify that your19 firm provided forensic examination of20 business records?21 A. Not to my knowledge.22 Q. And what about carnival frauds?23 A. Yes.

Page 55

1 Q. And altered playing cards and 2 dice? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And pyramid schemes? 5 A. Not testify. I conducted 6 schools for the casinos in Atlantic City on 7 altered cards and dice on, I think, it's 8 three different occasions. Also carnival 9 fraud in California on three different10 occasions.11 Q. Were those schools you put on12 in California for carnival frauds?13 A. Yes.14 Q. And what about the pyramid15 schemes?16 A. That was a bureau case, I17 believe.18 Q. A bureau case?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Are you still a licensed21 private investigator for the state of22 Virginia?23 A. Yes.

Page 56

1 Q. How long have you been a 2 licensed private investigator? 3 A. Since 1989. 4 Q. Now, I believe you told a court 5 that between '88 and '99, you only testified 6 on three occasions regarding gambling 7 devices. Does that sound familiar? 8 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 9 form. You can answer if you know.10 But I object to the form.11 A. The ones I cited were from my12 vita.13 Q. Okay.14 A. I didn't list all of them that15 I testified on in my vita. So there could be16 more, I don't know. I don't remember.17 Q. Well, my only question right18 now is: I've looked at some of your19 testimony, and it appears that you told a20 court, a federal court in South Carolina,21 that between '88 and '99, you had only22 testified on three occasions regarding23 gambling devices; is that true or not?


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Page 57

1 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 2 form. 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. And in those cases, did you 5 testify only whether or not there was prize, 6 chance, and consideration present in those 7 devices? 8 MR. REAGAN: Object; asked 9 and answered.10 Go ahead.11 A. Well, I think the first part of12 that question was -- what date is that that I13 testified I only had three cases?14 Q. I believe it's in the late15 '90s, because you testified --16 A. Okay, I --17 Q. Sir --18 A. I'm sorry. I apologize.19 Q. Between 1998 and 1999, you only20 testified on three occasions regarding21 gambling devices; is that true?22 A. No. Because I don't list all23 of the cases that I testified in on my vita.

Page 58

1 So I could have very well testified in other 2 cases, but I don't remember that. 3 Q. Okay. All right. Since you 4 left the FBI, what percentage of your work 5 has been in security? 6 A. Well, probably 60 percent. 7 Q. What percentage of your work 8 has been as a private investigator? 9 A. None.10 Q. What percentage of your work11 has been providing schools on carnival12 frauds, altered playing cards and dice, and13 pyramid schemes?14 A. Well, I don't know the15 percentage, but these instances of which I16 did talk about those issues was through17 conversations of people making inquiries18 about them, other law enforcement officers.19 Q. Well, you told me that you've20 given some schools on carnival frauds and21 altered playing cards and dice?22 A. That's correct.23 Q. Since you left the FBI, what

Page 59

1 percentage of your time and income has been 2 devoted to schools that you gave on those 3 topics? 4 A. I don't recall. 5 Q. Have you given any testimony or 6 provided any guidance since you left the FBI 7 on bookmaking cases? 8 A. Yes, on at least two cases. 9 And they were two police officers.10 Q. And what percentage of your11 time, since you left the FBI, has been12 testifying as an expert witness?13 A. I don't know that.14 Q. Before yesterday, had you ever15 been to Alabama, sir?16 A. I think I was, but I don't17 recall when or what for.18 Q. What was the occasion of you19 coming to Alabama whenever you came?20 A. As I say, I don't know.21 Q. Have you ever been to a Native22 American Bingo facility?23 A. Yes.

Page 60

1 Q. Which one? 2 A. Good question. I think there's 3 one in Texas, which was supposed to be 4 closed. And I don't recall. I think there 5 were two others. 6 Q. Were they both in Texas? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What states were they in? 9 A. I don't recall.10 Q. Do you recall the dates or11 approximate dates that you visited the Bingo12 facility in Texas?13 MR. REAGAN: Object to form14 and relevance.15 A. No, sir, I don't.16 Q. Do you recall the dates of your17 visits to the Bingo facilities in the two18 other states you don't recall?19 A. No, sir, I don't.20 Q. Okay. Mr. Holmes have you21 prepared or do you plan to prepare an expert22 report to submit to the Court in this case?23 A. No.


(15) Pages 57 - 60



Page 61

1 Q. In addition to the video and 2 photographs, have you examined any of the 3 devices in this case? 4 A. I've looked at them, but I have 5 not examined them. 6 Q. When you say you've looked at 7 them, tell me what you did. 8 A. Opened them up, looked at some 9 of the equipment that's inside. I made10 notations of what they are for -- made mental11 notations of what the accessories were for.12 Q. What opinions are you offering13 as an expert witness in this case?14 A. Well, if you're asking me15 whether or not the devices are Bingo devices,16 in my opinion they are not. They are17 gambling devices, and I have never seen a18 Bingo game where reels are used as part of19 the game.20 Q. Okay. Any other opinions?21 A. They're gambling devices.22 Q. Okay. Any other opinions23 besides that?

Page 62

1 A. No. 2 MR. REAGAN: John, it's now 3 9:56. We've been at it almost an 4 hour. Is this a good time to take 5 a ten-minute break for you? 6 MR. BOLTON: Sure, whenever 7 you want. 8 MR. REAGAN: Okay. Let's 9 take a ten-minute break.10 (Whereupon, a brief recess was11 taken.)12 BY MR. BOLTON: 13 Q. Mr. Holmes, I've handed you14 what we've identified as Exhibit Number 3 to15 your deposition. Can you tell me what that16 is?17 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit18 Number 3 was marked for19 identification and is attached20 hereto.)21 (The Witness reviewed the22 document.)23 A. Emergency Professional Services

Page 63

1 Contract between the Office of Attorney 2 General and Bill Holmes & Associates. 3 Q. And presently is this the only 4 agreement that you have with the State of 5 Alabama? 6 A. Other than the two-year 7 contract that was in the process. 8 Q. And I understand that they're 9 trying to get a copy of that. My10 understanding is that one has not been11 approved or signed; is that correct?12 A. As far as I know, that's13 correct.14 Q. Now, this emergency contract is15 dated June 19, 2014. Do you see that?16 A. Yes.17 Q. How long before June 19th did18 you first speak with a representative of the19 State of Alabama?20 A. I don't really know. But I21 think it was more like two or two-and-a-half22 weeks.23 Q. Would it have been in June,

Page 64

1 sir, the month of June? 2 A. I don't remember. 3 Q. Who first contacted you? 4 A. Sonny Reagan, I believe it was. 5 Q. What did he tell you? 6 A. Wanted to know if I would be 7 interested in the State Attorney General's 8 office seeking my services on a gambling 9 case.10 Q. Did he tell you what kind of11 gambling case?12 A. Yes.13 Q. What did he tell you?14 A. Bingo machines.15 Q. Did you communicate with16 Mr. Reagan other than by telephone?17 A. On one occasion. We had a18 meeting in Baltimore, Maryland.19 Q. And when was that?20 A. I don't remember the date, but21 I think it was the second of June. I'm not22 sure.23 Q. Do you have an e-mail address?


(16) Pages 61 - 64



Page 65

1 A. Yes. But I don't use it. 2 Q. Okay. And who attended the 3 meeting in Maryland besides yourself and 4 Mr. Reagan? 5 A. Dr. Valerie Lorenz. 6 Q. Anybody else? 7 A. No. 8 Q. How do you spell her last name? 9 A. L-O-R-E-N-Z, for zebra.10 Q. Have you had any communications11 with Mr. Reagan or anybody with the State of12 Alabama by e-mail or letter?13 A. Letter, not e-mail.14 Q. And who was the letter from or15 to?16 A. Sonny Reagan.17 Q. And what was the subject of18 that letter?19 A. I believe spelling out what was20 going to be involved in the Bingo case, Bingo21 gaming case.22 Q. Okay.23 MR. BOLTON: Does the State

Page 66

1 take the position that's a 2 privileged communication, Sonny? 3 MR. REAGAN: No, we don't. 4 And I believe you guys -- I believe 5 the only letter was a cover letter 6 on the cases that we told you that 7 we provided him. I believe we 8 mailed those to him. And there's a 9 one-page cover letter that I will10 get to you if you don't already11 have it that spells out what was in12 the packet.13 MR. BOLTON: Well, I don't14 have it. But yeah, if you can get15 it at the next break, that would be16 great.17 MR. REAGAN: I will.18 BY MR. BOLTON: 19 Q. Have you conducted any covert20 site visits at any Bingo facility in Alabama?21 A. No.22 Q. Now, the machine inspection23 that you performed, when did you do that?

Page 67

1 A. Yesterday. 2 Q. Okay. Starting about what 3 time? 4 A. When I -- shortly after we -- I 5 arrived here in Montgomery. 6 Q. Well, you told me you arrived 7 around 1:30? 8 A. Yeah. So it was around 2:30. 9 Q. And how long did your10 inspection last?11 A. Well, it was cut short by the12 nature of the devices or the condition they13 were in. And I believe it was somewhere14 around three or four.15 Q. Three or four devices?16 A. No. 4:00.17 Q. Three or 4:00?18 A. Right.19 Q. So from 2:30 to four --20 A. Actually, yeah, I think that's21 correct.22 Q. Did you have to sign any log23 when you entered this facility where the

Page 68

1 devices were located? 2 A. No. 3 Q. He always makes us sign. 4 A. You should. 5 Q. Where were the devices located, 6 Mr. Holmes? 7 A. In a warehouse. 8 MR. BOLTON: Sonny, if 9 there's a log of the time in and10 time out -- I mean, I'm sure y'all11 are pretty careful about evidence12 and the chain of custody, so if13 there's a log showing time in and14 time out, we'd appreciate receiving15 that so I can ask him about it.16 MR. REAGAN: There is no17 log.18 BY MR. BOLTON: 19 Q. Who was present, Mr. Holmes,20 besides yourself?21 A. Sonny Reagan. And I think22 they're all police officers, four other23 individuals. I only knew the one name of


(17) Pages 65 - 68



Page 69

1 Gene. 2 Q. They all used one name? 3 A. No. I said I don't know the 4 names of the others but one was Gene. 5 Q. Was it Gene Sisson? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. The tall guy with the bald 8 head? 9 A. And a beard.10 Q. I don't think Gene Sisson has a11 beard or at least he didn't a minute ago.12 Well, he does have a goatee. Is that what13 you're talking about?14 A. Yes.15 Q. Okay. And besides Agent16 Sisson, there were three other officers?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Tell me what you did.19 A. Opened the machines, looked20 inside, and noted what was in it, each21 machine, and the name of the device, and the22 fact that they were nonoperational.23 Q. They were what?

Page 70

1 A. Not operational. 2 Q. How many machines did you 3 examine in that fashion? 4 A. I looked at five. 5 Q. Okay. Looked at. How many 6 machines did you look at in that fashion, 7 five? 8 A. Five. 9 Q. And did you make any notes of10 the identity of the machines that you looked11 at?12 A. Yes.13 Q. Do you have those?14 A. No.15 Q. Who's got it?16 A. They're with my other -- my17 notebook.18 Q. Now, you've got a red spiral19 notebook that you've been looking at. Is20 that a different type, is that a different21 notebook?22 A. A what?23 Q. I thought I saw you looking at

Page 71

1 a red spiral notebook? Is that something 2 else you were -- 3 A. Yes. That's my schedule. 4 Q. Now, where is this notebook 5 where you wrote down the identity of the 6 machines that you looked at? Where is that 7 located? 8 A. In Mr. Reagan's office. 9 Q. Did you plug in any of the10 machines?11 A. No. They were not operational.12 Q. My question is: Did you try to13 make them operational?14 A. No. Because I understand that15 they are connected to a server, and without16 the server, they won't function.17 Q. Okay. Was the server not18 present on the site?19 A. Where the machines were?20 Q. Yes, sir.21 A. No, it was not.22 Q. So you didn't turn any of the23 five machines on, at all, that you looked at?

Page 72

1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. And you didn't see, during your 3 look, any servers on site? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Do you recall the names of the 6 machines that you looked at? 7 A. Not offhand. I think one was 8 Kintin, K-I-N-T-I-N, (sic) or something like 9 that. And then there was something Velvet.10 There were three of those. I'll think of the11 name in a minute.12 Q. So you looked at one something13 Velvet? One --14 A. No. Three something Velvet.15 Q. Oh, I'm sorry. That was the16 name?17 A. Right.18 Q. Three something Velvet?19 A. No. I'm sorry. I don't20 remember the first name of the machine, but21 Velvet was the second word, and there was a22 third word.23 Q. So you looked at one Velvet


(18) Pages 69 - 72



Page 73

1 machine, one Kintin. What were the other 2 three you looked at? 3 A. Three Velvet. The first one we 4 mentioned, something Velvet something, three 5 of them. 6 Q. Can you tell me the names of 7 the other machine or machines you looked at? 8 A. Not offhand. 9 Q. How many other machines besides10 the three Velvets and the one Kintin?11 A. I told you the total was five.12 Q. Okay. So there was one other13 machine?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. Did you record what you16 observed about each of these five machines17 when you looked at them?18 A. Yes.19 MR. BOLTON: Can we have his20 notes?21 MR. REAGAN: Let's talk22 about that during the break.23 MR. BOLTON: Okay. I mean,

Page 74

1 I think we've established that he 2 doesn't recall, and so -- 3 MR. REAGAN: Sure. I don't 4 have them with me right now. At 5 the break we can go and retrieve 6 them. 7 BY MR. BOLTON: 8 Q. Would it assist your testimony, 9 Mr. Holmes, if you could refer to your notes10 as far as identifying the names of the11 machines and the observations that you made12 yesterday afternoon?13 A. It would with the names,14 because I wrote the names down.15 Q. Would it also, as far as what16 you observed about each of the machines, as17 well?18 A. I can tell you that now.19 Q. Okay. We'll wait and get your20 notes.21 A. Okay.22 Q. Did you open the cabinets on23 each of the devices?

Page 75

1 A. Yes. Of the ones I looked at. 2 Q. The five? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was the inspection videotaped? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did anybody take any pictures? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Who took pictures? 9 A. I asked Mr. Reagan to take10 some.11 Q. Have you seen the pictures?12 A. Yes.13 Q. How were they given to you?14 A. They were handed to me.15 Q. I'm sorry, that was probably a16 poor question.17 My question was: Did anyone18 take any pictures yesterday of your19 examination?20 A. I didn't do an examination. I21 looked at them, and we took pictures. And we22 took pictures of the machines as I looked at23 them.

Page 76

1 MR. BOLTON: Do you have 2 those too? 3 MR. REAGAN: Yes. 4 BY MR. BOLTON: 5 Q. Did you take photographs of 6 each of the machines that you looked at 7 yesterday? 8 A. I believe I stated that we did. 9 Q. Okay. Was there any video10 taken of your looking at the machines11 yesterday?12 A. No. I believe I answered that13 also. No.14 Q. And I believe you told me that15 you didn't examine any other devices other16 than these five devices that you looked at17 yesterday?18 A. I looked at the other devices19 that were in question, but didn't do any type20 of observation.21 Q. Okay. So you glanced at them,22 but you didn't really do any observations?23 MR. REAGAN: Object to the


(19) Pages 73 - 76



Page 77

1 form. 2 A. Right. 3 Q. Didn't make any observations, 4 correct? 5 A. It's incorrect to say I didn't 6 make any observations. I looked at them and 7 formed an opinion. 8 Q. Okay. Did you examine any 9 other components besides these five devices10 you told me about?11 A. What do you mean by12 "components"?13 Q. What do you mean by14 "components"?15 A. You're the one that gave the16 name components. What do you mean by it?17 Q. Well, you told me you didn't18 look at any servers because they weren't on19 site?20 A. That's correct.21 Q. Were there any other devices22 related to the gaming devices that you looked23 at?

Page 78

1 A. Contained within the device, 2 there are accessories in each machine. 3 Q. Within the cabinet? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you look at any components 6 outside the cabinet? 7 A. I didn't know of any being 8 outside the cabinet other than the server. 9 Q. You weren't shown any?10 A. No.11 Q. So none of the items -- none of12 the devices that you looked at yesterday were13 functioning or operational at the time of14 your look-see?15 A. That's correct.16 Q. Do you know which17 manufacturers' games that you looked at?18 A. I believe IGT, Bally, and19 Cadillac Jack.20 Q. How many of each manufacturer21 did you look at?22 A. I don't recall, because I23 didn't look at the number of devices for each

Page 79

1 manufacturer. 2 Q. Because the games were not 3 operational, you were not able to play the 4 devices, were you? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Have you ever played an 7 electronic Bingo device? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Where?10 A. At the Indian casino that I11 told you about before.12 Q. In Texas --13 A. Yes.14 Q. -- that you don't remember the15 date of?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. And you don't remember the name18 of?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. And that was in 1987 or 1988,21 correct?22 A. It would have been before I23 retired, yes.

Page 80

1 Q. Okay. And those are the only 2 electronic Bingo games you've ever looked at 3 and played? 4 A. That's incorrect. 5 Q. That's incorrect? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Tell me -- 8 A. For example, I told you before 9 that I did examine two other casinos of which10 I don't know the dates or where they were.11 Q. But were they also while you12 were employed with the FBI?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Okay. So you didn't examine15 any of the software for any of the five16 devices that you looked at yesterday?17 A. That's correct.18 Q. That's not part of your19 examination or part of your looking in this20 case?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. Is it your understanding that23 someone else is to do that?


(20) Pages 77 - 80



Page 81

1 A. No. 2 Q. Has anybody told you that? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Is anybody with Bill Holmes & 5 Associates capable of examining the software 6 or the source code for these devices? 7 A. No, sir. In my opinion, that's 8 not necessary. 9 Q. So you can tell whether these10 games are gambling devices without examining11 the software or the source code?12 A. That's correct.13 Q. And why do you contend these14 devices are gambling devices?15 A. One was the fact that the16 machines contain reels with symbols thereon.17 That's a slot machine characteristic.18 Q. Okay. Anything else?19 A. Well, there was nothing that20 resembled a game of -- I'm trying to think21 of -- the accessories in the device were22 consistent with those of the gambling device;23 bill acceptor, player's card acceptor. It

Page 82

1 had two key notations -- not notations, but 2 receptacles that appeared to be similar to a 3 knock-off switch of which I couldn't prove 4 because it's not operational. 5 There's a meter for 6 recording -- not a meter, but there's a 7 dispenser of tickets for the player to 8 retrieve and use on another machine or 9 receive other prizes.10 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't understand11 your last testimony. There's a what?12 A. There are tickets that are13 dispensed which are used to claim either14 prizes or moneys from the device.15 Q. Now, tell me what a knock-off16 switch is.17 A. In the early devices, a button18 was construed to be a knock-off switch from19 the standpoint that if a player had credits20 or units of play left on a meter on the21 screen, they could remove them by pressing22 the knock-off button. And they will be23 reimbursed for those that were removed.

Page 83

1 On my new machines, the lock 2 knock-off switch does the same thing. 3 Q. The lock knock-off switch? 4 A. Lock knock-off switch. It's a 5 key-operated, knock-off switch. 6 Q. So the purpose of the knock-off 7 switch is to basically take off the credits 8 that are displayed on the game? 9 A. That are left after play, yes.10 Q. And then pay the player for11 those credits?12 A. That's correct.13 Q. Why would you need to do that14 on these games when you get a ticket that15 shows the number of tickets that you've won?16 A. Because there are several17 different things that serve the same purpose.18 On some machines, the knock-off is activated19 by punching a combination on the discard20 buttons on the draw poker device. Others21 were a key; others were a button. Others had22 two bolt heads on the side of the machine,23 and you put a coin up next to it to make the

Page 84

1 contact, it would knock them off. So there's 2 all different methods that would do the same 3 purpose or solve the same purpose. 4 Q. But you were not able to 5 determine whether the device that you saw 6 yesterday was actually a knock-off switch, 7 correct? 8 A. I did not -- was not able to 9 verify it, but in my opinion, that is one of10 them.11 Q. Did you examine the random12 number generator?13 A. No.14 Q. Where is that located?15 A. It's in the program.16 Q. In what device?17 A. All of them that are based upon18 chance. All devices that have a game that19 are based upon chance have a pseudo random20 number generator as part of the program.21 Q. In the Bingo system, is the22 random number generator located on the player23 station or is it located on the server?


(21) Pages 81 - 84



Page 85

1 A. In a live game? 2 Q. No, sir. In electronic 3 Bingo -- 4 A. I'm sorry. It's in the 5 program. 6 Q. In what program? The program 7 on the player station or the program on the 8 server? 9 A. I don't understand what you10 mean "player station."11 Q. The devices that you looked at12 are often referred to as player stations, the13 cabinets. Is the random number generator for14 an electronic Bingo device located there or15 somewhere else?16 A. It's within the program of the17 device.18 Q. Each individual device?19 A. Yes.20 Q. So there should be a random21 number generator inside of each cabinet?22 A. In the program.23 Q. In the program inside of each

Page 86

1 cabinet? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. In looking at these machines, 4 could you tell whether or not they had been 5 linked to a server? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did you try to perform any 8 examination to determine that? 9 A. No.10 Q. Did anyone else perform an11 examination or a look to determine whether or12 not the machines were or had been linked to13 one another?14 A. Not to my knowledge.15 Q. Okay. And you told me you've16 not examined any servers; you've not examined17 any software on the servers, correct?18 A. That's correct. You don't need19 to examine the software to come to the20 conclusion.21 Q. Do you know D.C. Ladner?22 A. Yes, I do.23 Q. He's an engineer, isn't he?

Page 87

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Do you respect him? 3 A. I have had dealings with him, 4 yes. 5 Q. Do you know that he was an 6 expert witness for the State in an electronic 7 Bingo case in Greene County in Alabama? 8 A. I wouldn't doubt it, but I 9 don't know the conclusion of his testimony.10 Q. If he testified that you had to11 do a forensic examination of the software of12 the device, would you agree with that?13 A. No, I would not.14 Q. And you haven't examined the15 software or the source code for the servers?16 A. It's not necessary, no, sir.17 Q. I understand that. But you18 have not examined it, have you?19 A. And I said, no, it's not20 necessary.21 Q. And you're not offering any22 opinions about the software or the source23 code for the servers, are you?

Page 88

1 A. That's correct. 2 Q. Do you know where the Bingo 3 balls are drawn? 4 A. What Bingo balls? 5 Q. You didn't see any Bingo balls, 6 did you? 7 A. Where? 8 Q. Did you see any Bingo balls? 9 A. I'm asking you a question.10 Where?11 Q. Unfortunately, today I get to12 ask the questions.13 MR. REAGAN: I object. That14 question was vague. You said did15 he see any Bingo balls. He doesn't16 know what you're talking about,17 when you're talking about, seeing18 Bingo balls in this room, yesterday19 or last week. And I believe that's20 what the objection was.21 Q. Did you see any Bingo balls22 yesterday when you looked at the five devices23 that you looked at?


(22) Pages 85 - 88



Page 89

1 A. No, because the devices that I 2 looked at had reels with images on it, and 3 that's a slot machine format. It's not 4 Bingo. 5 Q. Were you able to see the images 6 on the reels? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you see any Bingo cards -- 9 A. No.10 Q. -- yesterday?11 A. No -- I'm sorry. No.12 Q. Do you know whether or not13 these devices display to the player a Bingo14 card?15 A. In the video that was sent to16 me about the undercover officers playing the17 devices showed a Bingo card on the top18 portion of the screen. But that Bingo card19 is just a ploy by the manufacturer or20 operator so they can call it a Bingo game,21 when it's not. Because if you touch that22 card, it does not interact with the program23 that's on the device.

Page 90

1 Q. If you touch that card, can you 2 change it? 3 A. The player? 4 Q. Yes, sir. 5 A. There may be one where you can 6 change it, but it still has no interaction 7 with the program depicting it. 8 Q. And the program you're talking 9 about is the software?10 A. Okay. I'll make something11 clear. The software is the program. The12 program dictates what appears on the screen.13 If you analyze what's on the screen, you're14 analyzing the program.15 Q. Are you familiar with Bingo16 patterns, sir?17 A. Patterns.18 Q. Bingo patterns.19 A. If you're talking about the20 winning combinations, yes.21 Q. Do you know where the winning22 Bingo patterns are stored on the devices that23 you looked at yesterday?

Page 91

1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you actually see reels 3 yesterday when you looked at these devices? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Were these mechanical reels or 6 video reels? 7 A. Most of them were mechanical. 8 Q. Can a player of these devices 9 sleep a Bingo?10 A. I'm sorry, I don't understand.11 Q. Do you not understand what12 sleeping a Bingo is?13 A. Yes, I don't.14 Q. Yes, you don't?15 A. I don't understand what16 sleeping a Bingo is.17 Q. Did the devices you looked at18 yesterday have a unique game number that was19 displayed to the player?20 A. If it's not operational, I'm21 not going to be able to determine that.22 Q. Did you see it on the video of23 the photographs that you looked at?

Page 92

1 A. No. 2 Q. On these devices, did they have 3 a unique device number that was displayed to 4 the player? 5 A. A serial number on a tag that's 6 on the machine. 7 Q. Okay. That's the only one you 8 saw? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. On these device, was the unique11 number of the winning player station12 displayed to other players in the Bingo game?13 A. Other players of what, that14 same device?15 Q. Other players in the Bingo16 game?17 A. Live video?18 Q. The devices you looked at19 yesterday?20 A. They were not operational.21 Q. So you couldn't tell?22 A. That's correct.23 Q. Were you able to determine


(23) Pages 89 - 92



Page 93

1 whether or not these devices operated with a 2 common ball draw? 3 A. No. They're not operational. 4 Q. Well, could you tell from 5 looking at the photographs or the video that 6 you were provided by the State? 7 A. I don't recall looking for that 8 particular thing. 9 Q. Were you able to determine,10 either from your look-see yesterday or11 examination of the video or the photographs12 provided to you by the State, whether or not13 these devices awarded points to a player who14 first matched a predetermined pattern of15 numbers?16 MR. REAGAN: Object to the17 form.18 A. There are indications on the19 screen, or the matrix, of meters where20 numbers would be recorded, what was won, what21 was bet, etc.22 Q. You may have misunderstood my23 question, Mr. Holmes.

Page 94

1 My question was: Based on your 2 look-see yesterday, the video provided to you 3 by the State and the photographs provided to 4 you by the State, were you able to determine 5 whether or not these devices awarded points 6 to a player who first matched a predetermined 7 pattern of numbers? 8 A. On one device, they had a plate 9 that was adhered to one of the cameras10 inside -- or covers inside that listed the11 payoff ratios.12 Q. But were you able to determine13 whether or not the reward to the player was14 based on matching a predetermined pattern of15 numbers?16 A. If it's a Bingo game, a live17 Bingo game, it would because you have a18 pattern established, horizontal, vertical,19 and diagonal. On these devices, it was not20 indicated because it was a slot machine using21 reels.22 Q. Were you able to determine23 whether or not these games required more than

Page 95

1 one player to play the game? 2 A. In my opinion, only one. 3 Q. Okay. But you didn't play 4 them? 5 A. They're not operational. 6 Q. That's right. And you couldn't 7 determine whether or not the balls were 8 randomly drawn, could you, because they're 9 not operational?10 A. That's correct. But I do know11 it has the pseudo random number generator,12 which, in that fact, would draw randomly.13 Q. And how do you know these14 devices have a random number generator?15 A. Because of other machines that16 I have examined of the same nature.17 Q. Back when you worked for the18 FBI?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Were you able to determine21 whether or not the Bingo balls that you saw22 in the video or the photographs were drawn23 one by one?

Page 96

1 A. I don't recall. 2 Q. Do you recall whether the Bingo 3 balls were displayed to the player one by 4 one? 5 A. I don't recall. Because as I 6 say, the ones I examined had reels with 7 images thereon. 8 Q. Do you know whether the outcome 9 of the devices you looked at yesterday and10 saw on the video in the photographs, whether11 the outcome of the game was based on the play12 of a Bingo game?13 A. In my opinion, it was not.14 Q. And what fact do you rely on to15 give us that opinion?16 A. Past experience and the17 operational characteristics of the device.18 Q. But they weren't operational?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. Is it your position,21 Mr. Holmes, that the award to a player on22 these devices is based on the entertaining23 slot machine-type display?


(24) Pages 93 - 96



Page 97

1 A. I don't understand what you 2 mean by "entertaining." 3 Q. Have you ever played a slot 4 machine? 5 A. Thousands of times. 6 Q. And you're familiar with the 7 reels that are displayed on the slot machine? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Is it your position in this10 case that the outcome of the game and the11 award to the player is based on the spinning12 of the reels?13 A. Well, including the pseudo14 number generator because that selects what15 numbers are going to turn up.16 Q. Numbers or figures or oranges17 or --18 A. Symbols.19 Q. Have you determined that the20 slot machine graphics, the reels, if you21 will, had influence on the outcome of the22 game played on these devices?23 A. I don't understand the

Page 98

1 question. 2 Q. Have you made any effort to 3 determine whether or not the outcome of the 4 game played on these devices was based on the 5 slot machine reel images you described? 6 A. They were not operational, so I 7 could not make that determination. 8 Q. And you -- 9 A. However, since the reels were10 there, it was, in my opinion, yes, the11 outcome of play is based upon the position12 the reels end up in after they stop spinning.13 Q. And you were not able to tell14 that based on the video or the photographs15 that the State provided you, were you?16 A. I'm not sure about the video.17 I don't recall. I did not look specifically18 for that.19 Q. So would it be fair to say,20 Mr. Holmes, that your role in this case has21 been limited to a visual inspection of the22 cabinets of five seized devices together with23 looking at the photographs and the video

Page 99

1 provided by the State? 2 A. Observations, yes. 3 Q. Are you familiar with the game 4 of Bingo? 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. What is your experience with 7 the game of Bingo? 8 A. I've observed several games in 9 progress when I was doing an examination in10 Florida.11 Q. In Florida?12 A. Yes.13 Q. That was in Pinellas County?14 A. One of them, yes.15 Q. And what others?16 A. I don't recall the other17 states. I want to say Tennessee, but I'm not18 going to swear to it.19 Q. And you observed, I think what20 you called, live-call Bingo games?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. But would you agree that Bingo23 is a game of chance?

Page 100

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. It's a form of gambling? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. It's a type of lottery? 5 A. I don't know if it's called a 6 lottery, because there's exceptions in most 7 state laws for Bingo. 8 Q. Are the elements of gambling 9 present in a Bingo game, prize, chance, and10 consideration?11 A. Yes.12 MR. BOLTON: Before I go13 into another area, can we get the14 letter and the notes and the15 photographs from yesterday?16 MR. REAGAN: Yes, the17 photographs are being made now.18 For the purpose of the Record, we19 object, but we will provide you20 with those as an accommodation.21 And I've got the contract here, the22 two-year contract, that we are also23 providing you as an accommodation,


(25) Pages 97 - 100



Page 101

1 because they weren't subpoenaed. 2 But if you would like to 3 take a break right now, I'll check 4 on the status of the copying of the 5 photographs. 6 MR. BOLTON: Okay. That's 7 fine with me. 8 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 9 taken.)10 MR. REAGAN: We're back on11 the Record. John, I just wanted to12 provide you and other opposing13 counsel with a letter dated May 20,14 2014, which is the only written15 correspondence that this office has16 had with the Witness, other than17 the contracts, which have also been18 provided in this deposition, as19 well as his notes that he took20 yesterday when he observed and21 looked at the machines at issue in22 this case.23 Also, I have hard copies

Page 102

1 of the photographs that were made 2 yesterday at the warehouse where 3 the machines are housed, and hard 4 copies right now are being printed, 5 and they will be brought down for 6 everyone momentarily. 7 MR. SOMERVILLE: Are those 8 all of the paragraphs that were 9 made yesterday?10 MR. REAGAN: Yes.11 BY MR. BOLTON: 12 Q. Mr. Holmes, let's get this13 marked for the Record so we can move on.14 Mr. Holmes, I've handed you Exhibit Number 4,15 which purports to be the Legal Services16 Contract Review Report. Is this the two-year17 contract that you spoke about earlier?18 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit19 Number 4 was marked for20 identification and is attached21 hereto.)22 (The Witness reviewed the23 document.)

Page 103

1 A. I believe that's correct. 2 Q. And this is the one that has 3 not been approved or executed as of yet? 4 A. It's in process, yes. 5 Q. Okay. All right. 6 And then, what I've handed you 7 is Exhibit Number 5 to your deposition, which 8 is a letter from Mr. Reagan to you dated 9 May 20th, 2014, correct?10 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit11 Number 5 was marked for12 identification and is attached13 hereto.)14 (The Witness reviewed the15 document.)16 A. Yes.17 Q. And this is the only written18 communication you've had with the State of19 Alabama Attorney General's Office, true?20 A. True.21 Q. And in this letter, he22 transmitted certain DVDs and photographs23 along with a couple of cases and an expert

Page 104

1 report of Bob Sertell's? 2 A. That's correct. I want it to 3 be known, though, that I returned the report 4 of Bob Sertell to Mr. Reagan, because I don't 5 look at previous expert witnesses' or 6 experts' reports. 7 Q. Okay. Did you return anything 8 else? 9 A. No.10 Q. Is this the only letter that11 you've gotten from Mr. Reagan or anybody with12 the attorney general's office?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Is this the only communication,15 e-mail or otherwise, that you've had with the16 attorney general's office?17 A. Yes. Excuse me, other than the18 contract, that's a written communication.19 Q. Right. Mr. Holmes, I've handed20 you Defendants' Exhibit Number 6, and I21 understand you have the original before you.22 Are these the notes that you testified about23 earlier that you made while you looked at the


(26) Pages 101 - 104



Page 105

1 devices yesterday? 2 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit 3 Number 6 was marked for 4 identification and is attached 5 hereto.) 6 (The Witness reviewed the 7 document.) 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Now, you've handed me a series10 of photographs that I understand were taken11 yesterday during your look at these devices;12 is that true?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. Who took the photographs?15 A. Mr. Reagan and under my16 direction.17 Q. Okay. So you told him what to18 take a picture of?19 A. Yes.20 Q. I see a reference in your notes21 to Pictures G-23. Do you see that?22 A. Yes.23 Q. Now, what does that mean?

Page 106

1 A. I was going to take pictures 2 with my camera, but my camera malfunctioned. 3 But that G-23 is a note that was on the 4 device. 5 Q. So there was an evidence tag or 6 a label that referred to Device Number 1 as 7 G-23? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. It has nothing to do with any10 of these photographs that were taken11 yesterday? They're not numbered or lettered,12 are they?13 A. If I may look at them, I can14 tell you.15 Here's one with G-23. Here are16 four photographs that have -- I believe17 they're called evidence numbers or property18 numbers that the police put on there.19 Q. How did you select the five20 devices that you looked at yesterday?21 A. They were the most accessible22 and also the fact that there were three23 different types.

Page 107

1 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Reagan or any of 2 the police officers that you referred to 3 earlier direct you to those five devices? 4 A. Not at that time. But the 5 undercover officer appeared later, and we 6 discussed the machines. 7 Q. But did the undercover officer 8 direct you to these particular devices that 9 you looked at?10 A. No.11 Q. Okay. Let's go to your notes,12 which is Exhibit Number 6. And you have the13 original before you. Let's go to the first14 device. You say it's Picture G-23. Do you15 see that?16 A. Yes.17 Q. Tell me what your notes say,18 please, sir.19 A. The name of the device was20 Black Velvet Sevens made by Bally. There's a21 ten-button console. And these buttons were:22 Service, cash out, bet next. The next button23 was blank. Bet 20 credit, bet 40, then 60.

Page 108

1 Then the next two were blank, blank. Bet 2 maximum credits and play quantity. 3 It also has a cash tray, 4 meaning a trash at the bottom of the machine 5 where, if a winning combination occurred like 6 in casinos, money would be dispensed into the 7 tray. 8 Q. Did you open up Device G-23? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. What did you observe inside11 G-23?12 A. There were no mechanical meters13 present -- or apparent, rather. There's a14 bill acceptor. May I see the photograph?15 Q. Mr. Holmes, I don't want to16 stop what you're doing, but let's do this.17 If we're going to refer to the photographs at18 the same time you refer to your notes, I19 think we need to go ahead and mark the20 photographs one by one so we'll be clear in21 our Record what you're referring to.22 MR. BOLTON: Will you mark23 these individually, please?


(27) Pages 105 - 108



Page 109

1 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 2 taken.) 3 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit 4 Numbers 7 through 28 were 5 marked for identification and 6 are attached hereto.) 7 BY MR. BOLTON: 8 Q. Mr. Holmes, I think when we 9 left off, we were asking you about the device10 that you've referred to in your notes as11 Black Velvet Sevens. And you were going to12 refer us to a photograph. And now that13 you've got a number, you can refer us to an14 exhibit number?15 A. Exhibit 9.16 Q. Okay. And this is the Black17 Velvet Sevens device that you looked at18 yesterday?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Did your notes record a time21 when you got to the state surplus warehouse22 yesterday?23 A. No.

Page 110

1 Q. Did your notes record a time 2 when you left? 3 A. No. 4 Q. So your estimate of an hour and 5 a half is just based on your judgment as you 6 sit here today? 7 A. I believe I got there at 1:30 8 and left at 3:30. 9 Q. All right, sir. Let's go to10 the second device. And why don't you read11 your notes into the Record for that one?12 A. Monkey in the Bank. F-70 is13 the number on it. It has a cash tray, bill14 acceptor, ticket dispenser, payoff chart. No15 apparent mechanical meters are apparent.16 Card acceptor -- I'm sorry, a player card17 acceptor. Two keys on the right side of the18 device, and I believe one of them would be19 for a knock-off switch, and it's Cadillac20 Jack. It has play three lines, five lines,21 nine lines, 15 lines, and 20 lines. And22 maximum bet is two, four, eight, and ten.23 There's a button for maximum play -- maximum

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1 bet and play. 2 Q. And the two keys on the right 3 side of the device you say "purpose unknown"; 4 is that right? 5 A. Yes. As I say, I believe one 6 is a knock-off switch, but I couldn't prove 7 it. 8 Q. You would only be able to tell 9 that if you turned the device on, and it was10 operational?11 A. That is correct. However,12 there is a clue. If you look inside, there13 are two terminals on the end of the switch,14 Medco, M-E-D-C-O, I believe. And these two15 wires usually go to the metering system,16 which would knock off the credits.17 Q. But I think you told me on this18 particular device, the Monkey in the Bank,19 there were no meters?20 A. No mechanical meters, that's21 correct. There could be an accounting22 function which has all of the data from23 playing the device; number of coins, number

Page 112

1 of wins, etc. 2 Q. But there was no connection 3 between the two keys on the outside of the 4 cabinet and any meter on the inside, was 5 there? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Can you tell me, looking at the 8 photographs, which exhibit number depicts 9 Device Number 2, Monkey in the Bank?10 A. Seventeen.11 Q. Is Exhibit 17 the only12 photograph of Device Number 2?13 A. I believe 18 is the button14 console of that device. Yeah.15 Q. And what about 19?16 A. It could be.17 Q. Okay.18 A. I don't remember. Yes, it is.19 Q. Did you make any other20 observations about Device Number 2 that you21 did not record in your notes?22 A. I don't believe so.23 Q. Okay. Let's go to Device


(28) Pages 109 - 112



Page 113

1 Number 3. Tell me about that one. 2 A. That's F-142. That's Tinkin, 3 R-I-C-H, and there's a free spin win with a 4 hundred credits. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. You have a ticket dispenser, 7 bill acceptor, card stop, and no mechanical 8 meters were apparent, and there's two Medco 9 keys on the right side of the cabinet.10 There's a button control --11 excuse me -- the button console has service,12 disable, 25 lines, 50 lines, 100 lines, and13 the next one is blank. There's a cash out14 button and a card button. I don't remember15 what -- I can't read what my writing is.16 Q. It looks like change card. Do17 you see that?18 A. Yeah, that's correct.19 Q. Do you know what that refers20 to?21 A. Yeah. It's supposed to be on22 the image that's on the machine. That's23 supposed to represent a card for the game,

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1 and it's, as I say, it's -- it does not have 2 a bearing on the game that's being paid. 3 Q. And you're referring to a Bingo 4 card? 5 A. Yes, I'm sorry. And if I 6 recall, the card doesn't say Bingo. It just 7 has numbers. 8 Q. Is it a five-by-five card? 9 A. Well, the size is irrelevant,10 because it's not represented on the machine11 itself. It could be distorted.12 Q. Is it a card with five rows13 across and five rows down?14 A. I would have to check on it,15 but I think it is.16 Q. And it has numbers on it?17 A. Just numbers.18 Q. And do you know what purpose19 the change card button functions as?20 A. From what the undercover21 officer said when he played the machine, you22 could change that card image, but as I said,23 it has no bearing on the game being played.

Page 115

1 Q. And how do you know that? 2 A. Because when you touch the card 3 or it changes, it doesn't affect the game. 4 Q. Now, that's what the undercover 5 officer told you, correct? 6 A. In addition to the video that 7 was played. Because they touched the card in 8 the video, and there were no effects on the 9 game being played.10 Q. But it changed the card, didn't11 it?12 A. Yeah. But as I said, the card13 has no bearing on the game being played.14 It's irrelevant. It's there to give the15 operator -- or the manufacturer an excuse to16 call it a Bingo game when it's not.17 Q. Now, the Tinkin Rich device,18 which is your Number 3, you've got a19 reference to IGT to the left of your notes.20 Do you see that?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Did you see a photograph that23 refers to that device as an IGT-manufactured

Page 116

1 game? 2 A. Photograph Number 23. 3 Q. All right, sir. 4 A. And 26. 5 Q. So Exhibits 23 and 26 refer to 6 your Device Number 3 in your notes? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Are there any other 9 observations that you made that you did not10 record in your notes?11 A. The button console is one play12 button -- I mean, play one, play two, play13 three, play four, play five, and -- oh, I'm14 sorry. The one play per line; per line is on15 all of those.16 Q. Okay.17 A. Maximum bet and play daub is18 two buttons. There's a card acceptor and a19 bill acceptor.20 Q. Now, do slot machines have a21 daub, a button, on them?22 A. No. But you can call a button23 any name. It's what the button does that


(29) Pages 113 - 116



Page 117

1 dictates what it is. 2 Q. Are slot machines house-banked 3 games? 4 A. House? 5 Q. House-banked games? 6 A. Electronic ones -- well, 7 theoretically, yes, a live Bingo game is a 8 house game. 9 Q. No, sir. I said are slot10 machines, traditional slot machines, are they11 house-banked games?12 A. Well, what do you mean by13 house-banked? There's a house percentage,14 but the machine itself is the bank, so to15 speak.16 Q. Are you familiar with the term17 "house-banked"?18 A. Yes.19 Q. Well, is a slot machine a20 house-banked game?21 A. If you take and define bank22 loosely, meaning that the machine keeps23 everything that's put into it except for the

Page 118

1 payoffs, yes. 2 Q. In a slot machine, the player 3 is playing against the machine, is he not? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. He's playing against the house? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. In a slot machine, is there a 8 winner in every game? 9 A. No.10 Q. Let's go to Device Number 4.11 It's another Black Velvet Sevens, it looks12 like. Would you refer to your notes and tell13 me what you observed about Device 4?14 A. It's a Black Velvet Sevens15 manufactured by Bally. There's five reels16 bearing images thereon. The control number17 is B-39. There's a player card slot, a18 ticket dispenser. There's an on-screen pay19 lines, lines bet, win paid, credit bet -- I'm20 sorry -- credit and total.21 There are 11 buttons. 20 bet,22 40 bet, 60 bet. There's two blank buttons.23 Bet maximum, credits, play point. There's no

Page 119

1 apparent mechanical meters. There's a cash 2 tray. There is a daub start and stop button. 3 Bill acceptor and player card slot. And 4 there are three Medco keys on the right side 5 of the device. 6 Q. Can you identify from the 7 photograph exhibits which photographs depict 8 Device Number 4? 9 A. I believe it's Number 20.10 Exhibit Number 20.11 Q. Now, on Exhibit Number 20,12 there is a bottom part of the cabinet which13 has the buttons and coin tray. Do you see14 that?15 A. Yes, that's what I mentioned.16 Button console and coin tray.17 Q. In the middle portion of the18 cabinet has the reels you described, correct?19 A. Well, just below the reels is20 the player card slot and the bill acceptor21 slot.22 Q. Now, what's the purpose of the23 player card slot?

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1 A. In many locations -- and I'm 2 not sure about this one -- you go to a 3 cashier and pay them money, and they gave you 4 a card with that amount of money on the card. 5 You stick that into the machine, and it 6 recognizes the amount that's on the card and 7 you can play with that. That puts the number 8 of credits on the credit meter. 9 Q. Do you know whether the player10 card slot functioned as you described on this11 device?12 A. No, sir. They were13 nonoperational. But in my opinion, they14 wouldn't be there if they were not used.15 Q. Well, are you familiar with a16 player tracking card?17 A. Yes, sir. Your casinos have18 them, some of them.19 Q. And those don't have any20 amounts of money on them, do they?21 A. Well, I think there is a limit.22 You just don't get carte blanche.23 Q. But are you familiar with a


(30) Pages 117 - 120



Page 121

1 player card where the only purpose of putting 2 in the card is for the system to recognize 3 you, Mr. Holmes, as the player? 4 A. No. It's not the only reason 5 for the card being inserted. I don't know of 6 any machine where that is the sole purpose of 7 a player card. 8 Q. So your experience has been 9 that if a player accepts a player card, it's10 because it has money or a value on the card?11 A. That's correct.12 Q. But you couldn't tell that in13 this case because the devices were not14 operational?15 A. That's correct.16 Q. Now, the upper portion of the17 cabinet appears to be another video screen.18 Do you see that?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Were you able to determine what21 was displayed on the upper portion of the22 video screen?23 A. No, I was not.

Page 122

1 Q. Are there any other photographs 2 that depict Device Number 4 in your notes? 3 A. I believe it's 21. 4 Q. What does Exhibit 21 depict, 5 sir? 6 A. It's got a ticket dispenser, a 7 player card acceptor, bill acceptor. And 8 that black ball with the rod coming out of 9 it, I believe was the lever that was used to10 activate the device in the past, and it was11 removed.12 Q. You mean like a handle?13 A. Yes.14 Q. What are the two boxes on the15 left-hand side of the picture, the two silver16 boxes?17 A. I believe that contains printed18 circuit boards or it's speakers. I can't19 prove it because it was not operational.20 Q. And in the middle of the21 picture, there seems to be something with a22 blue handle, what is that?23 A. That's also -- it looks like --

Page 123

1 there's a motor usually in the machines for 2 cooling, a fan, and that looks like what it 3 is, but I don't know that. 4 Q. And then to the right of that 5 is another blue box. What is that? 6 A. That's the bill acceptor. 7 Q. And then beneath that looks to 8 be a locked box. Is that where the bills 9 went into?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. And then to the left of the12 bill acceptor is another box that appears13 it's a locking box, because I see a key14 device on the outside. What is that?15 A. I have no knowledge of what16 that is.17 Q. Any other photographs in this18 set of photographs that depict Device19 Number 4?20 A. No.21 Q. Let's go to the fifth.22 A. I did not record any notes on23 the fifth device, but it was the same device

Page 124

1 that I originally did with the Black Velvet 2 Sevens. Yeah. Because it was the same, I 3 did not record any notes. 4 Q. Okay. Did you take any 5 pictures of it? 6 A. No -- well, I'm not sure. I 7 think I did, but I don't have any indication 8 of how to identify it. 9 Q. Okay. Let's go through the10 exhibits, the photograph exhibits. Looking11 at Exhibit Number 7, which device does that12 refer to?13 A. I'm not sure. I think it's14 129.15 Q. But what device is that? Is16 that Number 1?17 A. Yeah.18 Q. Okay. What about Exhibit 8?19 What does that refer to?20 A. I don't know the exact machine21 these two belonged in.22 Q. When you say "these two," what23 do you mean?


(31) Pages 121 - 124



Page 125

1 A. Seven and 8. 2 Q. You don't know about 7 and 8, 3 okay. What about 9? 4 A. Nine is the Black Velvet 5 Sevens. 6 Q. Which one? 7 A. Number 1 -- actually, I'm 8 sorry. Number 9 is the exhibit number. 9 Machine Number 1.10 Q. Machine Number 1 on your notes?11 A. That's correct.12 MR. REAGAN: And for the13 Record, if I may, we're talking14 about -- he's got exhibit numbers15 on the photographs that he's16 looking at that we put on this17 morning. And then there are18 machine numbers in his notes which19 are one through four, I believe.20 And then there are evidence21 stickers depicted in the22 photographs on the machine that23 depict Evidence Numbers C-29, C-23,

Page 126

1 etc. So I think maybe it would be 2 better, for the Record, when we 3 refer to which machine is that, is 4 it which machine in your notes or 5 which machine in the exhibits. 6 MR. BOLTON: That's what I 7 was trying to ask is which machine 8 in your notes do the exhibits 9 depict.10 BY MR. BOLTON: 11 Q. And we've gone through 7, 8 and12 9, so let's go to 10.13 MR. REAGAN: Now, are you14 talking about Exhibit Number 10 in15 the photographs?16 MR. BOLTON: Yes.17 A. That belongs with G-23, which18 is my Number 1. And it's Exhibits 9, 10, and19 11 of that machine.20 Q. Okay. What about Exhibit21 Number 12?22 A. I believe that it might be23 Black Velvet Sevens, my Machine Number 4.

Page 127

1 And that's Exhibit 12. 2 Q. Okay. Exhibit Number 13? 3 A. I believe Number 13, 14, 15, 4 and 16, those are exhibits by the way, I 5 really don't recall which ones those are for. 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. That would be Exhibits 13, 14, 8 15, and 16. 9 Q. All right. Let's go to Exhibit10 Number 17.11 A. That's my Machine Number 2.12 Q. Exhibit 18?13 A. Exhibit 17, 18, and 19 are14 Machine Number 2.15 Q. Okay. Exhibit Number 20?16 A. My Machine Number 4 is Exhibit17 Number 20.18 Q. Exhibit Number 21?19 A. My Machine Number 4 is20 Exhibit 21.21 Q. Exhibit 22?22 A. And Exhibit 22 is my Machine23 Number 4.

Page 128

1 Q. Exhibit 23? 2 A. That's my Machine Number 3 is 3 Exhibit Number 23. I think it's 23, 24, 25, 4 and 26. 5 Q. Okay. What about Exhibit 6 Number 27? 7 A. That's also Machine Number 3. 8 Q. Exhibit 28? 9 A. Number 3, also.10 Q. Let me direct you back to11 Exhibit Number 15, which is the photograph.12 It looks like this.13 I believe you told me a few14 minutes ago that you didn't know which device15 this was from, but I see on the right-hand16 side of this Exhibit 15, it says, "Change17 Bingo card." Do you see that?18 A. Yes.19 Q. And there's also a block that20 says, "Card on." Do you see that?21 A. Yes, sir.22 Q. Did you determine the purpose23 and function of these blocks?


(32) Pages 125 - 128



Page 129

1 A. Well, that gives what the 2 player can bet, because there's max bet, max 3 bet, 16 credits. See, the device can be set 4 to certain criteria. For example, if you 5 only want 16 to be the maximum bet, you can 6 set it to where it only bets 16. 7 Those references you made about 8 change card, as I stated before, the card 9 that can be changed is supposed to represent10 a Bingo card, but in my opinion, it has no11 effect on the game, therefore, it's12 irrelevant.13 Q. And you'd have to play the game14 to determine that, wouldn't you?15 A. I saw that on the video where16 the undercover officer played the device,17 tapped the card several times with no18 response.19 Q. And this diagram here, was that20 on the inside of the cabinet that you21 examined?22 A. It was attached to the cover23 that covered the printed circuit board on the

Page 130

1 inside of the cabinet. 2 Q. So this particular diagram was 3 not visible to the player, was it? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Would it be your judgment that 6 this was for use by the technician in wiring 7 the inside of the cabinets? 8 A. No, I do not. 9 Q. Well, what do you think was the10 purpose of this diagram that's on the inside11 of the cabinet?12 A. It's not a diagram. It's a13 list of certain options of which the operator14 or the owner of the machine would know and15 could dictate what he wanted the machine to16 do.17 Q. And the technician would make18 those changes?19 A. That's correct.20 MR. BOLTON: We're at noon,21 so do you want to --22 MR. REAGAN: Sure. Break23 for an hour lunch. Reconvene at

Page 131

1 one. 2 (Whereupon, a lunch recess was 3 taken.) 4 BY MR. BOLTON: 5 Q. Okay. You testified earlier 6 about the presence of a daub, D-A-U-B, button 7 on some of these devices. Do you recall 8 that? 9 A. That's correct.10 Q. Did you determine what the11 function of the daub device or the daub12 button was on these devices?13 A. To disguise the true nature of14 the device. It had no real effect other than15 stopping the reels or if you want something16 to record the credits.17 Q. Did you determine that or is18 that your opinion?19 A. No. I was -- part of it was20 due to the videotape of the UC guys playing21 the machines and also I asked the UC officer22 if that's what the case was.23 Q. Now, which UC officer did you

Page 132

1 ask? 2 A. I don't know his name. 3 Q. Now, you mentioned there were 4 six officers that accompanied you yesterday 5 during your look-see. Do you recall that? 6 A. I don't believe I said six. I 7 think there were five. 8 Q. And you told me that one of 9 them was named Gene?10 A. Yes.11 Q. Do you recall the names of the12 others?13 A. No, I don't.14 Q. When was the last time you15 played a slot machine?16 A. In reality, last night.17 Q. Well, what did you play last18 night?19 A. I have a slot machine in my20 home.21 Q. Were you at your home last22 night?23 A. No, I'm sorry if I said last


(33) Pages 129 - 132



Page 133

1 night. Last couple of days, let's put it 2 that way. Because I was testing something on 3 the machine itself. It was a mechanical 4 device. 5 Q. What kind of slot machine do 6 you have in your home? 7 A. Bally. 8 Q. Bally. And I believe you told 9 me this earlier -- and I apologize if I'm10 repeating myself -- but when was the last11 time you played a live-call Bingo game? Was12 that in Florida?13 A. Yeah. Not actually played it,14 but I observed it being played. I was there.15 Q. When was the last time you16 testified in a case involving gambling17 devices?18 A. I believe it's listed on my19 vita -- oh, you're talking about testifying,20 right?21 Q. Yes, sir.22 A. 2003, May of 2003.23 Q. And which state or court was

Page 134

1 that testimony offered? 2 A. Oh, I'm sorry. That was an 3 article that was published. At the 4 International Conference on Gambling and Risk 5 Taking, when I presented the article. 6 Q. But my question was -- 7 A. I know. 8 Q. -- when did you last testify 9 regarding gambling devices?10 A. I don't recall the testimony,11 because I made presentations, conferences,12 etc., so I don't know. The last one listed13 on my vita was '89, I believe.14 Q. Now, let me make sure I15 understand Exhibit Number 5, which is the16 letter from Mr. Reagan to you transmitting17 certain materials.18 A. Yes.19 Q. Are these all of the materials20 that you relied upon in reaching your21 opinions that you have in this case, together22 with your look-see yesterday afternoon?23 A. And my experience.

Page 135

1 Q. And your experience? 2 A. Of examining thousands of 3 machines of which some of them were 4 electronic video -- claimed to be electronic 5 video devices. 6 Q. But you didn't get any other 7 materials other than the materials identified 8 in Mr. Reagan's letter of May 20th; is that 9 correct?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. Okay. Has anyone from the12 State advised you that Greene County has a13 constitutional amendment allowing electronic14 Bingo?15 A. No, sir.16 Q. Has anyone from the State17 advised you that Greene County has a18 constitutional amendment allowing Bingo?19 A. No, I don't think so. May I20 ask a question?21 Q. No, sir.22 A. For clarification?23 Q. All right, sir.

Page 136

1 A. What does the Greene County 2 amendment contain or address? 3 Q. Well, it doesn't matter if you 4 haven't received one. 5 So my questions is: There's no 6 Greene County amendment referred to in the 7 May 20th letter of Exhibit 5. My question 8 was whether anybody else from the State had 9 provided you with a constitutional amendment10 authorizing Bingo in Greene County?11 A. I think I was. I don't have12 the binder, but I think there was a case13 cited in that binder.14 Q. I don't mean a case cite. Have15 you been provided with a copy of the16 amendment?17 A. I think so, but I'm not sure.18 Because I remember it being referenced in the19 binder of material I received.20 Q. What binder of materials did21 you receive?22 A. Listing some cases, definition23 of laws, Alabama laws. This was long after I


(34) Pages 133 - 136



Page 137

1 received that. 2 Q. So your prior testimony was 3 incorrect. You received additional 4 information after the information you 5 received in Exhibit 5? 6 A. That's right. 7 Q. You received a binder? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And who provided you with that10 binder?11 A. Mr. Reagan.12 Q. Did you receive it by mail?13 A. No.14 Q. How did you receive it?15 A. We had a meeting, and I think I16 mentioned approximately two-and-a-half weeks17 prior. And we had a conference in Baltimore18 at which I received the binder.19 MR. BOLTON: Can we get a20 copy of the binder?21 MR. REAGAN: For the Record,22 the contents of the binder were, I23 believe, on the objections

Page 138

1 yesterday. It's cases. It's the 2 newer case in Greene County. 3 MR. KACHELMAN: State v. 4 Greenetrack, Ex Parte State 5 concerning the VictoryLand case. 6 MR. BOLTON: Well, there's a 7 difference in what you're telling 8 me and he's recalling. We need to 9 get the binder down here so we can10 identify for the Record what was11 attached. I mean, I don't need the12 cases, if that's what it was. But13 I want him to be certain that he's14 talking about the same thing you're15 talking about. Can we do that? Do16 you have a copy of the binder? I17 don't necessarily have to have a18 copy if it's just the cases.19 MR. KACHELMAN: Is the20 binder upstairs?21 MR. REAGAN: It's all cases,22 but we can get it.23

Page 139

1 BY MR. BOLTON: 2 Q. Mr. Holmes, how many of the 3 undercover officers did you speak to 4 yesterday other than Mr. Gene as you call 5 him? 6 A. Just one that I'm aware of. 7 Q. And is that the one that you 8 cannot recall his name? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Are any of the opinions that11 you are providing in this case based on what12 the undercover officer told you?13 A. No, sir.14 Q. Mr. Holmes, do you know whether15 the machines that you looked at yesterday16 were the same machines that you saw in the17 videos provided by Mr. Reagan?18 A. I have no way of identifying19 whether or not they are the same, but I was20 informed that they were.21 Q. And who told you that?22 A. Mr. Reagan and the undercover23 officer when I asked them a question about

Page 140

1 one of the devices. Like, I asked him, "Did 2 you play this machine?" 3 Q. Okay. Now, you told us today 4 that you have observed, in your experience, 5 different ways to play Bingo -- 6 A. I don't believe I said there 7 were different ways to play Bingo. There's 8 only one way to play live Bingo. 9 Q. Well, let me ask my question10 before you answer, okay?11 A. Well, you paused, and that's12 why I answered it.13 Q. You told us about the live-call14 Bingo game that you observed in Florida,15 correct?16 A. Yes.17 Q. You also told us about the18 electronic Bingo that you observed at the19 Native American facility in Texas and perhaps20 two other locations?21 A. Yes.22 Q. Now, what was the nature of23 your investigation on the electronic Bingo


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1 that was being operated at the Native 2 American facilities in Texas? 3 A. To determine whether or not it 4 was a gambling device as opposed to a game of 5 Bingo. 6 Q. Do you remember the name of the 7 tribe? 8 A. No, sir, I don't. 9 Q. Was it a reported case?10 A. No. Because I believe all they11 did was close it down.12 Q. Okay. And that was before IGRA13 was enacted, was it not?14 A. I don't know. I think so.15 Q. In your analysis, in your16 opinions in this case, Mr. Holmes, does the17 size of the Bingo card matter to your18 opinion?19 A. Relative to the machines in20 this case?21 Q. Yes, sir.22 A. No. Because it has no effect23 on the game itself.

Page 142

1 Q. Does the location of the card 2 on the screen affect your analysis and 3 opinions in this case? 4 A. No. Because, again, it has no 5 appreciable effect on the way the game is 6 played. 7 Q. And you know that not based on 8 the software or an analysis of the source 9 code; you know that based on your experience10 with slot machines; is that what your11 testimony is?12 A. And also the video of these13 devices being played.14 Q. Does the speed of the games15 played that you observed on the video, does16 that have any effect on your analysis in this17 case?18 A. Only from the standpoint that19 the time of play is one of the play20 characteristics of slot machines.21 Q. So the faster a game is, the22 more likely it's a slot machine; is that your23 testimony?

Page 143

1 A. No, sir, that's not. 2 Q. Okay. Well, then tell me what 3 it is. 4 A. You can take a gambling device, 5 such as a slot machine, and you cannot 6 activate the device and that's still 7 considered time and play. Then you play, and 8 it goes maybe five to seven seconds, 9 depending on how many reels there are.10 Q. Does it matter whether it's11 five seconds, seven seconds, or fifteen12 seconds as to whether or not it's a slot13 machine?14 A. No.15 Q. Now, Mr. Sertell has told us16 before that Bingo can be played on electronic17 devices. Do you agree with that?18 A. If I saw the device, I may.19 Q. Have you ever seen a device20 where Bingo was played electronically?21 A. Not a pure Bingo game, no, sir.22 Q. Are you familiar with Megamania23 device?

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1 A. The name sounds familiar, but I 2 have not seen it. 3 Q. Have you ever seen a MegaNanza 4 device? 5 A. It's of the same nature. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not 7 those are Bingo devices? 8 A. No, sir, I don't. I'd have to 9 observe it.10 Q. Have you been paid anything for11 your services in this case?12 A. No, sir.13 Q. Have you submitted a bill?14 A. No, sir.15 Q. Are you familiar with the16 definition of a gambling device under Alabama17 law?18 A. I believe it's consideration,19 chance, and reward.20 Q. Have you seen that before?21 (Whereupon, Defendants' Exhibit22 Number 29 was marked for23 identification and is attached


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Page 145

1 hereto.) 2 (The Witness reviewed the 3 document.) 4 A. I have read it before, but I 5 don't recall what it said. 6 Q. Okay. Is this one of the 7 statutes that was provided to you by the 8 State that you testified about earlier? 9 A. I believe it was.10 Q. Okay. And if you look down at11 the bottom, do you see the definition of a12 gambling device?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Would you read that to15 yourself, please?16 (The Witness reviewed the17 document.)18 A. Yes, sir.19 Q. And you told me earlier that20 Bingo is a form of gambling?21 A. That's correct.22 Q. Under this definition, would a23 paper Bingo card be a gambling device?

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1 A. That's an exception. 2 Q. Oh, there's an exception for 3 Bingo? 4 A. In most states, I'm sorry. I'm 5 not sure about here. But I would say it 6 would fit within -- I don't know if any of 7 these other items they mention fits within 8 the purview of lottery for the device in 9 question.10 Q. The paper Bingo card, is it11 paraphernalia that's used in the playing12 phases of a gambling activity?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Is an ink dauber where you15 cover the cards, is that used in the playing16 phases of a gambling activity?17 A. Yes.18 Q. Is a ball hopper, you've seen a19 squirrel cage where you draw the balls out20 of, is that paraphernalia that's used in a21 gambling activity?22 A. Anything associated with the23 operation or activity is part of the gambling

Page 147

1 activity. 2 Q. And the Bingo balls that are 3 drawn, they would be gambling devices, would 4 they not? 5 A. That's correct. As I said, 6 anything used in the operation would be 7 gambling paraphernalia. 8 Q. And a Bingo blower, which is 9 another type of a way to draw balls, that's10 also a gambling device?11 A. Yes.12 Q. Are you aware that Alabama law13 prohibits lotteries, including Bingo, by14 constitutional amendment?15 A. Not specifically, but you show16 me where it's stated in the law.17 Q. Has anybody ever provided that18 to you?19 A. No.20 Q. Has anybody ever told you that?21 A. No.22 Q. As part of your engagement in23 this case, were you asked to determine how

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1 Bingo was played in 2003? 2 A. What type of Bingo, electronic 3 or a live game? 4 Q. You tell me. 5 A. A live game was played the same 6 15, 20 years ago as it is now. Electronic, 7 it varies with the different manufacturer. 8 Q. But there was electronic Bingo 9 in existence in 2003, was there not?10 A. It was labeled electronic11 Bingo, not necessarily Bingo.12 Q. But there were electronic Bingo13 games being played at the Native American14 facilities, for example, in 2003?15 MR. REAGAN: Object to the16 form.17 A. I wasn't aware of that. You're18 talking about an Indian casino here or where?19 Q. Anywhere.20 A. Well, the ones I visited did21 not have the electronic Bingo as Bingo, per22 se. It was called Bingo.23 Q. And the last one you visited


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Page 149

1 was when you were still with the FBI? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. So you don't know whether 4 electronic Bingo was being played legally in 5 the United States in 2003? 6 A. I'm not aware of it, no. 7 Q. And do you know about whether 8 or not electronic Bingo was played in Alabama 9 in 2003?10 A. No, sir, I'm not.11 Q. You're not offering any12 opinions about what types of Bingo,13 electronic Bingo, were being played in the14 United States or in Alabama as of 2003?15 A. What do you mean "what types of16 Bingo"?17 Q. Listen to my question, sir.18 You're not offering any opinions in this case19 about what types of electronic Bingo were20 being played either in Alabama or the United21 States in 2003?22 MR. REAGAN: Object to the23 form.

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1 A. That's correct. I can only 2 offer opinion of what I'm aware of. 3 Q. Okay. Have you visited any 4 Bingo halls in Alabama? 5 A. No, sir. 6 Q. Do you have an opinion, 7 Mr. Holmes, as to whether electronic Bingo 8 games played at Native American sites in 9 Alabama are illegal slot machines?10 MR. REAGAN: Objection. I11 think we've asked and answered12 that.13 A. If these are an indication of14 the type of machines that's on the Indian15 reservations, then in my opinion, they're16 gambling devices. They're not Bingo.17 Q. Are they slot machines, sir?18 A. That's right, they are.19 Q. Are you familiar with the20 federal definition of Bingo?21 A. I didn't know there was one.22 Q. Okay. Do the games that you23 looked at in this case meet the definition of

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1 a class two device under federal law? 2 MR. REAGAN: Objection; 3 relevance. 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. Could you take these games and 6 place them at any Native American Bingo 7 facility and operate them lawfully under 8 federal law? 9 MR. REAGAN: Object to the10 form.11 A. Not in my opinion, no.12 Q. Why not?13 A. Because they're gambling14 devices, and Indian reservation casinos are15 only allowed to operate certain devices,16 depending on which category they are in and17 whether or not they have a compact with the18 state.19 Q. Do Native American tribes have20 to have compacts to operate electronic Bingo21 in Alabama?22 MR. REAGAN: Objection;23 relevancy and outside the scope.

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1 He testified he has never been in a 2 Native American casino in Alabama, 3 and I believe he's testified that 4 he's not well-versed in federal 5 IGRA law. 6 Q. You may answer. 7 A. What was the question again? 8 MR. BOLTON: Would you read 9 it back to him?10 (Whereupon, The Court Reporter11 read the requested portion of12 the deposition proceedings.)13 A. Not if they have a compact for14 it. They have to have -- and also the state15 that it's in has to have Bingo for it to have16 Bingo on the reservation.17 Q. So you're saying they have to18 have a compact?19 A. Yes, in order for them to20 legally operate a Bingo game on a21 reservation. If the state it's in has Bingo,22 then they can get a compact to operate,23 otherwise, they can't, as I understand it.


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Page 153

1 Q. Do you have an opinion as to 2 whether Native American tribes in Alabama who 3 have no compact -- 4 MR. REAGAN: Objection. 5 This is not even relevant. 6 MR. BOLTON: Can I finish 7 the question before you object to 8 it? 9 MR. REAGAN: Sure.10 BY MR. BOLTON: 11 Q. Do you have an opinion as to12 whether Native American Indians in Alabama13 who have no compact may operate slot machines14 prohibited by the Johnson Act?15 MR. REAGAN: Same objection.16 A. In my opinion, no. It's17 against the law.18 Q. They can't have slot machines,19 can they?20 A. No.21 Q. They can only have Bingo22 machines, can't they?23 A. If they're Bingo machines, yes.

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1 But not slot machines. 2 Q. I think we agree with one 3 another. 4 Have you ever seen an 5 electronic Bingo machine that you believe to 6 be Bingo? 7 A. I believe on one occasion, but 8 I don't remember when or where. 9 Q. Can you give me a clue?10 A. I don't remember it.11 Q. I know you told us earlier that12 your lab is not certified by any regulated13 gaming jurisdiction in the United States?14 A. I don't have a lab.15 Q. All right, sir. Are you16 familiar with labs in this country, in this17 world, that are certified by gaming18 jurisdictions in the United States and across19 the world?20 A. Well, not across the world.21 But I believe the New Jersey Gaming22 Commission has assisted in certifying the New23 Jersey laboratory, which operates -- or I

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1 should say certifies machines for the 2 casinos. I believe -- what's his name, 3 Williams, has a laboratory that has also been 4 certified. 5 Q. Williams? 6 A. I don't remember his last name. 7 Q. Williamson? 8 A. No. The one that you mentioned 9 was an expert that you had consulted.10 Q. D.C. Ladner?11 A. Yes. I'm sorry. Ladner.12 Q. Do you know Rich Williamson13 with BMM?14 A. No.15 Q. Are you familiar with BMM16 Testlabs?17 A. It sounds familiar, but I have18 had no dealings with them.19 Q. Are you familiar with GLI?20 A. Yes.21 Q. Are they a recognized certified22 gaming laboratory?23 A. I believe they are.

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1 Q. Have they certified, to your 2 knowledge, slot machines and Bingo machines 3 in regulated jurisdictions in this country? 4 A. I don't know about Bingo games, 5 but I know they have slot machines, and they 6 were doing that for some casinos as well as 7 some state casinos. 8 Q. And they were doing that while 9 you were with the FBI?10 A. I believe that's correct.11 Q. Have you ever testified on the12 side of the Defendant in a case?13 A. On one occasion, yes.14 Q. And what case was that?15 A. That was on a video gambling16 device where the manufacturer out of17 Pennsylvania designed a game where it was a18 poker table with five players, and each one19 of the players would react differently to20 what the cards were electronically dealt.21 Q. And what was your opinion of22 that device?23 A. That was a game of skill,


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1 because it employed all of the aspects of a 2 true game of draw poker; bluffing, money 3 management, raising, knowledge of laws of 4 probability, etc. 5 Q. And was this after you had left 6 the FBI? 7 A. No. 8 Q. This is while you were with the 9 FBI?10 A. Yes.11 Q. What state was that in?12 A. Pennsylvania.13 Q. What was the outcome of that14 case?15 A. They were allowed to16 manufacture it, but there was no demand for17 it.18 Q. What was the name of the19 manufacturer?20 A. I've been trying to think of21 it, and I can't remember. It was quite a22 while ago.23 Q. Is that one of the cases listed

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1 on your CV? 2 A. No. 3 MR. BOLTON: Give me a 4 couple of minutes. I may be close 5 to being done. 6 (Whereupon, a brief recess was 7 taken.) 8 Q. Mr. Holmes, before we get to 9 your notebook, let me ask a couple of10 questions, and then we'll get to your11 notebook.12 You told me a minute ago about13 the elements of a slot machine. Do you have14 an opinion, are you familiar with the15 elements of a Bingo game, whether it's played16 on paper, electronic, computer, or Bingo17 minder?18 A. I don't use the term19 "elements." I use characteristics.20 Q. Okay. Tell me the21 characteristics of a Bingo game.22 A. It's an announcer that calls23 out the balls with the numbers and the

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1 letters, the cage that is used to distribute 2 the balls, circulate them, and the cards that 3 are sold to the players. And you can have 4 one or more. And the individual who receives 5 or can get the indicated patterns calls 6 Bingo, and they're declared the winner. 7 Q. And can you play that game on 8 an electronic device? 9 A. Not with those characteristics,10 because you don't have a caller. And the11 fact is that if I were a player, I might12 overlook a number; the machine won't let that13 happen.14 If I overlook a number, it may15 also cause me to overlook a winning16 combination. The machine won't let that17 happen. So there are definite --18 Q. Is that an advantage to the19 player or the house?20 A. No. I'm talking about two21 different things.22 Q. But is that an advantage to the23 player or the house that the electronic Bingo

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1 would not let a player overlook a winning 2 combination? 3 A. Well, it would be an advantage 4 to the house, but the thing is, you're not 5 looking for an advantage. 6 Q. It's an advantage to the 7 player, isn't it? 8 A. Not if he misses it. 9 Q. But if he can't miss it because10 the device won't let him miss it, isn't that11 an advantage to the player?12 A. Yes. But, however, that's not13 the issue. The issue is whether or not the14 characteristics of the true game of15 electronic Bingo are the same as the real16 live game of Bingo. It's not the case.17 Q. Does a Bingo game have to have18 multiple player?19 A. Doesn't have to, but it's20 usually the case.21 Q. So you can play Bingo with one22 player?23 A. If the Bingo parlor allows it,


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1 yeah. 2 Q. What about state law? 3 A. I don't think the state law 4 says you have to have more than one. I don't 5 think so. 6 Q. Do you know what Alabama law 7 provides on that? 8 A. Not verbally, no. 9 Q. Do winning Bingo patterns have10 to be established prior to the beginning of11 the Bingo game?12 A. I don't quite understand what13 you mean by patterns unless you mean14 diagonals, verticals, and horizontals.15 Q. Are there other Bingo patterns16 other than diagonal, vertical, and horizontal17 in your opinion?18 A. Well, I don't know what you19 mean by pattern. To me that's what the20 pattern is.21 Q. Is that the only pattern that22 you're familiar with in a Bingo game?23 A. Yes.

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1 Q. It's got to be played on a 2 Bingo card. Do you agree with that? 3 A. The live Bingo, yes. 4 Q. Or electronic Bingo? 5 A. Well, not on a card. It could 6 be some other mode. 7 Q. So you can play electronic 8 Bingo on something other than a card? 9 A. Yeah, electronically. Because10 they're not cards when they're digital. It's11 a replication of a card.12 Q. So a video representation of a13 card to you, in your opinion, is not a card?14 A. That's correct. It's a15 representation of a card.16 Q. In a Bingo game, is the game17 won by the first person covering a18 previously-designated pattern?19 A. Yes. But it could be more than20 one winner.21 Q. And in Bingo, there's always a22 winner, is there not?23 A. Yes.

Page 163

1 Q. That's different from a slot 2 machine, isn't it? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. Now, I know you told me earlier 5 you didn't know what sleeping of Bingo was. 6 Do you have to daub your card in a Bingo 7 game? 8 A. Live Bingo game? 9 Q. Yes, sir.10 A. Yes. But as I say, you could11 overlook the called number, and you wouldn't12 daub it.13 Q. In order to win, do you have to14 daub the card?15 A. Unless there's some other way16 of marking the numbers, yes.17 Q. Do you have to mark the18 numbers?19 A. Some way, yes. You could have20 a sticker you put on it; you daub it.21 Q. If I use the same Bingo card22 every day and I know what my numbers are, if23 I get the Bingo pattern five in a row, do I

Page 164

1 have to have daubed it in order to win the 2 Bingo game? 3 A. You have to verify it with the 4 ones that are drawn as to whether or not 5 those are the correct numbers. 6 Q. But I don't have to daub, do I? 7 A. Well, how are you going to know 8 then if you've got a winning pattern? 9 Q. Because I know what my numbers10 are.11 A. Well, I disagree with you12 having the ability to remember what the13 numbers are.14 Q. Okay. So someone who can15 remember the numbers, you don't think that's16 possible?17 A. I don't think it's practical18 that they would.19 Q. You've never seen that?20 A. No. Never heard of it either.21 Q. But as long as the Bingo22 pattern is verified by the device, it's a23 winning pattern and an award to the player,


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1 is it not? 2 A. If they are verified, yes. 3 Q. Regardless of whether the card 4 was daubed or not? 5 A. Well, are you talking about 6 electronic Bingo? 7 Q. I'm talking about any Bingo. 8 A. No. If it's not daubed in a 9 live Bingo game, how is that person going to10 know to yell Bingo?11 Q. Mr. Holmes, if I verify that12 the pattern matched the numbers called, do I13 win regardless of whether I daub the card or14 not?15 MR. REAGAN: Object to the16 form.17 A. I disagree.18 Q. Do I?19 A. I disagree.20 Q. You say I don't win even if --21 A. If I --22 THE COURT REPORTER: Please23 speak one at a time.

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1 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 2 form. 3 BY MR. BOLTON: 4 Q. Is it your testimony that in a 5 live-call Bingo game, if I match the Bingo 6 pattern, whether it's five horizontal, five 7 vertical, or whatever pattern you tell me, if 8 I verified that with the Bingo hall, I don't 9 win if I didn't daub it?10 A. My question is: How are you11 going to verify it when you don't know what12 number you had that was drawn because you13 didn't dab it or mark it?14 Q. Can you answer my question?15 A. I just did.16 Q. In a Bingo game, is there a17 common ball draw?18 A. A common ball draw?19 Q. Yes, sir.20 A. I don't understand.21 Q. Do you know what a common ball22 draw is?23 A. No.

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1 Q. Have you ever observed a Bingo 2 game played on handheld devices? 3 A. I know there's some Bingo games 4 that are on these new devices like the iPods, 5 but I don't know about a commercial one 6 played on a handheld device. 7 Q. But my question was: Have you 8 ever observed a game played on a handheld 9 device?10 A. And I just answered that. It11 may be on some of these new devices, but I12 have not observed a handheld Bingo game in a13 commercial Bingo hall.14 Q. Have you ever observed a Bingo15 game played on a computer?16 A. Yes.17 Q. And that was since you left the18 FBI?19 A. Yes.20 Q. Is a game of Bingo still Bingo21 if it's played on an iPad?22 A. It depends on what elements are23 present in the iPad game.

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1 Q. Are you familiar with the term 2 Bingo minder? 3 A. Bingo what? 4 Q. Minder, M-I-N-D-E-R? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Do you know James Maida? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What do you know about him? 9 A. If I remember correctly, he was10 with the New Jersey Gaming Commission -- or11 laboratory division for the casinos.12 Q. Do you know what he does now?13 A. He's got his own lab, I14 believe.15 Q. Do you know the name of the16 lab?17 A. No.18 Q. Do you know what his reputation19 is?20 A. Yes.21 Q. What's that?22 A. Pretty good.23 Q. Do you know what the reputation


(42) Pages 165 - 168



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1 of his lab is? 2 A. I guess he's certified, but I 3 don't know that for a fact. 4 Q. And when you say "certified," 5 you mean certified by regulated 6 jurisdictions. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Has anybody provided you with a 9 definition of Bingo in Greene County,10 Alabama?11 A. In what county? Greene, no.12 Q. Do you understand that you're13 giving testimony about the way Bingo is14 operated in Greene County, Alabama?15 A. I believe it was alluded to,16 yes.17 Q. Let's look at this notebook18 that you referred to earlier. Are these the19 materials that were provided to you by20 Mr. Reagan at your visit and meeting in21 Baltimore?22 A. Yes.23 Q. The front of it is titled State

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1 of Alabama Legal Materials? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And it has in it five items 4 identified as Barber versus Jefferson County 5 Racing Association, which is a supreme court 6 case decided in 2007? 7 A. Yes, sir, whatever is on that 8 list is in that binder. 9 Q. Another is Barber versus10 Cornerstone, which is a supreme court case11 decided in 2009. And another is Ex Parte12 State decided by the supreme court on March13 of 2013, and then Ex Parte State April 1,14 2014, and then Alabama code 13-A-12-20?15 A. Whatever is on that list, yes,16 sir.17 Q. And 13-A-12-20 is what you and18 I looked at a few minutes ago, isn't it?19 A. I believe so, yes.20 Q. That was the definition of a21 gambling device and gambling in Alabama?22 A. Right.23 Q. Now, you told me you were

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1 provided a definition and a statute for 2 Bingo. Is that in here? 3 A. I don't think I said statute, 4 however, if I did, I meant there was a case 5 that alluded to the way Bingo is supposed to 6 be played. 7 Q. Have you read all of these 8 materials? 9 A. Most of it; not all of it.10 Q. Did you rely on any of it in11 reaching your opinions in this case?12 A. No, sir.13 MR. BOLTON: Okay. That's14 all I have.15 EXAMINATION16 BY MR. SOMERVILLE: 17 Q. I'm going to clarify a couple18 of things. My name is Will Somerville.19 Along with my partner Andy Walsh, I represent20 Bally Gaming in this case. I'm going to try21 to avoid touching on stuff that Mr. Bolton22 has already touched on, but I just want to23 clarify a couple of things.

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1 First of all, I'm trying to 2 figure out how many actual Bingo games you 3 have evaluated in your career. 4 A. Well, probably 25 or 30. 5 However, I have no indication as to where, 6 because a lot of times the evaluation occurs 7 and nothing follows. There's no testimony; 8 no case, whatever. 9 Q. The only one that you recall is10 one in Pinellas, Florida, correct?11 A. That's the Bingo game, yes.12 Q. And then one on the Indian13 reservation perhaps in Texas; is that14 correct?15 A. Yes.16 Q. And those are the only two that17 you recall where they were; is that correct?18 A. That's correct.19 Q. And did those all occur during20 your tenure as an FBI agent during or before21 roughly 1988?22 A. Yes.23 Q. All 25 or 30 occurred during


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1 your tenure as an FBI agent roughly during or 2 before 1988, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And let's go back to a question 5 Mr. Bolton asked you. I'm trying to figure 6 out the significance of this daubing 7 business, okay? And I'm trying to figure out 8 whether daubing is necessary in a Bingo game 9 in most places.10 A. Yes.11 Q. You understand where we're12 headed with this?13 A. Yes.14 Q. Pretend like you've got a Bingo15 card, all right? It's five lines across,16 five lines down; has a total of how many17 squares is that?18 A. Twenty-five.19 Q. Twenty-five; is that correct?20 A. Yes.21 Q. And so you've got 25 squares,22 and let's say -- you'll probably have to23 suspend your disbelief for this, but let's

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1 say I'm real smart, okay? And I can remember 2 all of the numbers that have been drawn, 3 okay? And I don't actually use a marker or a 4 peanut or a coin or whatever it is to cover 5 the numbers that have been actually called, 6 okay? 7 A. Right. 8 Q. And you're telling me that I 9 can't go up and claim my prize because I10 haven't actually marked the number on the11 card?12 A. I don't believe that would be13 possible. However, that would depend a lot14 on the rules or the policy of the Bingo15 parlor you're playing in.16 Q. First of all, assume that I'm17 real smart, and that I can remember all of18 the numbers that have been drawn. And I go19 up to the guy with the money, okay, and I20 say, Here, I've marked these; I've got a21 Bingo right here; pay me. Okay?22 A. You said you didn't mark them.23 Q. I said I didn't mark them, but

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1 I've got a Bingo across here, okay? 2 A. Okay. 3 Q. It's a diagonal line or a 4 vertical line or a horizontal line? 5 A. Right, or diagonal. 6 Q. That's what I said. 7 A. Oh, okay. 8 Q. And so my question is: If I 9 didn't mark the actual numbers on the card,10 and I asked to be paid because I've got a11 Bingo straight across, is the Bingo hall12 committing a crime by paying me my prize?13 A. First of all, I don't think14 that individual, like you say you are, is15 that smart and --16 Q. I didn't say I was that smart.17 I said pretend like I was that --18 A. Yeah, assume. However, I think19 it would be up to the policy of the Bingo20 hall, because they may suspect fraud. And21 they're not going to pay you.22 Q. That's not my question. My23 question is: Is it a crime for them to pay

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1 you the prize if you didn't mark the numbers 2 straight across on that line? 3 A. Not unless it's in the statute 4 or unless against the policy of the Bingo 5 hall, no. 6 Q. And what if -- let's say I was 7 just kind of absentminded instead of being 8 smart, okay? And I didn't mark the cards 9 that I was playing. Let me ask you this --10 let me withdraw that.11 Isn't it true that most Bingo12 halls that you've ever been in, the13 traditional live-call Bingo facilities, don't14 they host a board with the numbers that have15 been called?16 A. Sometimes it's a board.17 Sometimes it's a layout on the table itself18 where they'll put the balls after their19 drawing.20 Q. Can't you as a player continue21 to refer to the board to see what numbers22 have been drawn?23 A. Yes.


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1 Q. Even if you miss a number that 2 was drawn? Let's say you sneezed or 3 something like that, okay, and a number is 4 drawn while you're sneezing and you miss it. 5 And then you go back and say, Oh, my gosh, 6 that board shows all the numbers that have 7 been drawn. Is it okay to mark your card out 8 of sequence? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. It's not illegal. You won't be11 arrested for marking your Bingo card out of12 sequence if you miss a number, and then come13 back later and figure out that you should14 have marked your card, correct?15 A. Is that before you turn it in16 or after?17 Q. Before?18 A. No.19 Q. All right. Now, you said you20 analyzed and evaluated the machines yesterday21 afternoon?22 A. Yes. I looked at them.23 Q. You looked at them. You didn't

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1 evaluate them? 2 A. No. I formed an opinion as to 3 what I interpreted them to be. 4 Q. Well, that's not the question. 5 I said you didn't evaluate -- 6 A. I'm sorry. What does evaluate, 7 in your mind, mean? 8 Q. Scrutinize them closely? 9 A. Scrutinize them what?10 Q. Closely.11 A. I looked at them and then12 formed my opinions based upon my knowledge13 and what I saw in the machine.14 Q. Let's figure out exactly what15 you did, okay? You looked at them; you16 didn't plug them in, correct?17 A. That's correct. They were not18 operational.19 Q. You didn't attempt to plug them20 in, correct?21 A. They were nonoperational.22 Q. That's not my question. My23 question is: Did you attempt to plug them

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1 in? 2 A. My point is: Why should I try 3 to plug them in if they're not operational, 4 because they were attached to a slave unit or 5 a main server, which they got the information 6 from the function. 7 Q. I'm just asking you: Did you 8 attempt to plug them in? 9 A. And I said no.10 Q. You were looking at the daub11 button, correct?12 A. Yes.13 Q. And at some point, you tried to14 determine what the function of the daub15 button was?16 A. I believe I determined what it17 was through the help of the undercover18 officer and the video device.19 Q. Well, let's figure it out.20 What is your opinion of what the daub button21 is for?22 A. It has no function with the23 game depicted. However, it does stop the

Page 180

1 reels. And depending how often you have to 2 hit the daub button, for example, you win 3 something, you hit the daub button, and it 4 will pay off. 5 Q. So your testimony is that the 6 daub button has no function at all? 7 A. Not relative to the game being 8 played, no. 9 Q. Not relative to the Bingo game10 being played or not relative to the slot11 machine game being played?12 A. It was a slot machine that was13 being played, and there was no relative issue14 that supported the daub button being part of15 the game itself.16 Q. Let's go over that. You17 testified that the Bingo card had nothing to18 do with the outcome of the game?19 A. That's correct.20 Q. And I want to know everything21 you base that opinion on, okay?22 A. Number one is the video.23 Q. Video?


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1 A. Yeah, because the officer 2 playing the game touched the card on several 3 occasions and nothing happened. The game 4 proceeded in what the program dictated to do. 5 There was no apparent effect with that card. 6 Q. Let me stop you -- well, let's 7 keep going. So, first, the officer playing 8 the game touched the card on the video and 9 nothing happened, correct?10 A. There was no input as to what11 the game was doing.12 Q. So what you're saying is that13 touching the video card -- I'm sorry,14 touching the Bingo card had no effect on the15 outcome of the game, correct?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. All right. Let's go to number18 two. Do you have any other opinions, any19 other things upon which you base your opinion20 that this is a -- that the Bingo game was21 irrelevant to the outcome of the --22 A. It was a slot machine. There23 are reels there.

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1 Q. Reels, okay? 2 A. Bearing symbols. 3 Q. Reels bearing symbols? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You said that the Bingo card 6 had nothing to do with the outcome of the 7 game; had reels bearing symbols. Do you have 8 any other facts upon which you base your 9 opinion that the games were slot machines and10 not Bingo?11 A. Well, if you've got reels with12 symbols thereon, it can't be a Bingo game.13 There are no Bingo games that I'm aware of14 that use reels.15 Q. Okay. So there are no Bingo16 games that you're aware use reels?17 A. Right.18 Q. So here's what I have so far --19 I'm trying to figure out all of the facts20 upon which you're basing your expert21 testimony, okay? I understand them to be,22 one, that the officer playing the game23 touched the card and nothing happened in the

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1 video, correct? Number two is it had reels 2 bearing symbols. And number three is there 3 are no Bingo games that have reels to your 4 knowledge. Are there any other facts upon 5 which you base your opinion that these are 6 slots machines and not Bingo games? 7 A. Well, according to the 8 definition of what a Bingo game is, it didn't 9 have the same characteristics. It wasn't10 multiple players. It was one player on the11 device. There were no cards. The card that12 was present was just a card that has no13 bearing on the game at all.14 The numbers that were15 supposedly announced were not announced by an16 announcer. It was an electronic display of17 what those numbers were. These machines did18 not have numbers displayed because they had19 reels.20 Q. Are you -- so let's go -- let21 me make sure I understand. The officer was22 playing the game, touched the card, and23 nothing happened, correct?

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1 A. It did not affect the game, 2 yes. 3 Q. The reels bore symbols, 4 correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. There's no Bingo games that 7 you're aware of that have reels, correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. There weren't multiple players,10 correct?11 A. Right.12 Q. No cards, correct?13 A. That's correct.14 Q. No announcer, correct?15 A. Right.16 Q. And the cards didn't have17 numbers, correct?18 A. Well, the cards on the screen19 you're talking about?20 Q. Yeah.21 A. They had numbers but no22 letters.23 Q. Are there any other facts upon


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1 which you base your opinion that these are 2 not Bingo games? 3 A. Other than the fact it doesn't 4 follow the characteristics of what a Bingo 5 game is, no. 6 Q. Well, have you given me the 7 reasons why you say it doesn't follow the 8 characteristics of what a Bingo game is? 9 A. Right.10 Q. Do you have any other facts to11 add to those characteristics, other than that12 the officer playing the game touched the card13 and nothing happened; that the reels bore14 symbols; there are no Bingo games that have15 reels; there weren't multiple players; there16 are no cards; there's no announcer; and the17 cards don't have letters?18 A. The ones on the electronic19 device don't have letters.20 Q. Okay. Are there any other21 factors that support your conclusion that22 this is not a Bingo game that you said is a23 slot machine?

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1 A. Not that I can think of right 2 now. 3 Q. Let's go over those for a 4 second. Now, you said that the video where 5 you saw the officer was playing the game, 6 touched the card and nothing happened. You 7 weren't there when that happened, were you? 8 A. No. I saw it on the videotape. 9 Q. You just saw it on the10 videotape that somebody else took, correct?11 A. That's right.12 Q. And you had no direction or13 control over it or no input into how that14 video was made, correct?15 A. That's correct.16 Q. And what happened was he would17 push the button, correct?18 A. For what?19 Q. Push the button to start the20 game?21 A. Yes.22 Q. And then he would touch the23 card, correct?

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1 A. Not necessarily in that order. 2 He could have played the game and then 3 touched the card. 4 Q. Okay. He played the game and 5 then touched the card -- 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- to see what would happen? 8 A. Right. 9 Q. So your testimony is that it10 can't be a Bingo game because you can't11 change the card after --12 A. I didn't say that.13 Q. -- you start playing the game.14 A. I'm sorry. I didn't say that,15 because that card --16 Q. Well, that's what I heard.17 A. That card can be changed. What18 I'm saying is that touching it has no effect19 on the outcome or the game itself because20 it's a slot machine.21 Q. You're saying in order for it22 to be a real Bingo game, you'd have to be23 able to -- what do you do in a Bingo game?

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1 What do you mean touching it? Because I 2 thought -- well, let me make sure I 3 understand what you're talking about. 4 With the games with these 5 machines, isn't it true -- and you saw it on 6 videos, that if you touched the card -- say 7 the player doesn't like the card that's on 8 the machine, then the player can touch the 9 card, and it will change to a new card, won't10 it?11 A. It's possible, but it doesn't12 matter. Because it doesn't --13 Q. Well, that's not the --14 A. Let me finish, please. Let me15 finish my answer.16 Q. Answer my question. The17 question is: Can a player touch the card and18 change the card?19 A. It doesn't necessarily have to20 touch the card. It may change automatically.21 But what I'm saying is whether he changes it22 or not has no effect on the game being23 played.


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1 Q. Is it your testimony or is it 2 not that if the player touches the card on 3 the Bingo terminal that it will change the 4 card? 5 A. Not necessarily. 6 Q. It won't? Are you telling 7 me -- 8 A. Not every time, no. 9 Q. Before the game -- it's your10 sworn testimony under oath that before the11 game starts, you can't change the card by12 touching the card?13 A. That's not what was said.14 Q. No. That's what I asked. If15 you misunderstood me, then answer that16 question because that's the question I'm17 asking for an answer to.18 A. You can change it before the19 game starts, but that doesn't mean anything20 because it doesn't affect the outcome of the21 game.22 Q. That's my next question. The23 touching the card or changing the card

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1 doesn't affect the outcome of the game, okay? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. You have not done any analysis 4 of the software, have you? 5 A. Don't have to. 6 Q. I'm not asking you whether you 7 have to or not. 8 A. I gave you my answer. 9 Q. The Judge may disagree with you10 on whether you have to or --11 A. That's up to him.12 Q. It is up to the Judge, isn't13 it?14 MR. REAGAN: Objection.15 A. That's correct.16 Q. Let's find out for the Judge's17 benefit whether you have evaluated the18 software. Have you evaluated the software?19 A. No. And as I say, you don't20 have to in order to give an analysis of what21 the device does. You have a program that's22 in a device.23 Q. In what device?

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1 A. Any device. That's -- 2 Q. Let's not -- 3 A. Let me give my answer -- 4 Q. -- talk -- 5 A. May I answer, please? 6 Q. Your answer is nonresponsive. 7 A. It is. 8 MR. REAGAN: Well, he's 9 trying to answer the question.10 MR. SOMERVILLE: He's11 talking about any device. I want12 to know about these devices?13 A. Okay. These devices.14 Q. These devices, where is the15 software in these devices?16 MR. REAGAN: If you'll let17 him answer the question, I think18 he's going to answer it for you.19 A. Software in these devices is in20 the computer elements of the circuit board.21 Q. And let me make sure I22 understand. In the individual computer, in23 the individual terminal or on the server?

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1 A. Both. You have circuit boards 2 in each individual machine. Now, in this 3 case, because of the server, the program will 4 be in the server. However, in order for you 5 to do an analysis of the machine, you don't 6 have to know what the program is. Because 7 whatever the program is, it is going to be 8 projected on the screen. So you analyze what 9 appears on the screen. That tells you what10 the game is and what type of game it is. You11 don't need to be a programmer.12 Q. Well, let me ask you this: I13 understand you're not a programmer, correct?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. But can you -- you don't know16 whether the Bingo game, the outcome of a game17 on a Bingo card, determines what the reels18 display or if it's the other way around, do19 you?20 A. I don't understand the21 question.22 Q. Well, it's possible, isn't it,23 when the server sends information out to the


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1 individual terminals that are playing the 2 game, you understand that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. You understand that's how it 5 works, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And the information from the 8 server is then displayed on the terminals, 9 correct?10 A. Yes. Well, yes, it goes11 through the terminal, that's correct.12 Q. And do you know and can you13 tell from watching the video games whether14 the information is displayed on the Bingo15 card first or on the spinning reels first?16 A. It doesn't matter.17 Q. I didn't ask you whether it18 matters or not. I'm asking you --19 A. And I'm telling you it doesn't20 matter.21 Q. And I'm asking you can you22 tell? And we'll be here until the end of23 time, until you're 82 years old --

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1 MR. REAGAN: I object. 2 You're badgering the Witness; form 3 of the question. 4 Q. -- until you tell me which 5 comes first, the Bingo display or the 6 spinning reels. Do you know the answer to 7 that? 8 A. What if they come at the same 9 time?10 Q. I didn't ask you what if. I11 asked you: Do you know which comes first,12 the information on the Bingo card or the13 information on the spinning reels?14 A. Okay. The Bingo card may get15 the information first, but it's not a Bingo16 card; it just bears the numbers.17 Q. I'm asking you -- so you agree18 that whatever it is, the five-by-five19 display, five-by-five Alpha numeric display,20 gets the information on it first, correct?21 MR. REAGAN: Object to form.22 Q. Isn't that your sworn23 testimony?

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1 A. That it may, yes. 2 Q. Now, then, you said there are 3 no Bingo games with spinning reels, correct? 4 A. To my knowledge, that's 5 correct. 6 Q. But you don't know whether, for 7 example, there are Bingo games in the Indian 8 casinos that have spinning reels, correct? 9 A. I have not heard of any, and10 the ones I visited did not have any.11 Q. And that was just about 3012 years ago, correct?13 A. Not quite.14 Q. Twenty-six, 1988?15 A. Maybe, yes.16 Q. And you said there weren't17 multiple players, correct?18 A. That's correct.19 Q. And that means there weren't20 multiple players at each terminal, correct?21 A. That's right.22 Q. You don't know whether there23 are multiple players hooked up on different

Page 196

1 terminals to the same server playing the same 2 game, do you? 3 A. Yes, I do. 4 Q. How? 5 A. Because they normally don't 6 react that way to a common server. The 7 server provides the program which depicts the 8 game. It does not have player against 9 player. The player is playing against the10 machine.11 Q. I totally missed that. Your12 testimony earlier was that various terminals13 are connected to the server, correct?14 A. Yes.15 Q. And we haven't seen the video.16 But you've got videos of a player playing the17 terminal, correct?18 A. Yes.19 Q. Actually, the officer playing20 the terminal, correct?21 A. Yes.22 Q. And it doesn't show who else23 he's playing against, does it?


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Page 197

1 A. He's not playing against 2 anybody else. He's playing against the 3 machine. 4 Q. Well, is it your sworn 5 testimony that the machines are not linked to 6 a server and that they play the Bingo game 7 together? 8 A. That's not what I said. I said 9 that the server provides the game for the10 game depicted -- provides the game as11 depicted on the machine. It does not have12 each machine against each other, with the13 players against each other.14 Q. And I guess my question is:15 How do you know? I mean, you're sitting16 here -- we're talking about -- I mean D.C.17 Ladner -- and I question you: Who do you18 think knows more about electronic gaming, you19 or D.C. Ladner? Who knows more?20 MR. REAGAN: Object to the21 form.22 A. He knows about the electronics23 of a device, but that doesn't mean mine is

Page 198

1 null and void because of that. 2 Q. But if he testified that you 3 can't tell whether these are Bingo games 4 connected to each other with different 5 players playing against each other through a 6 common terminal, if he testified to that, 7 would you really have a reason to refute him 8 on that? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. And what would be your reason11 for refuting D.C. Ladner?12 A. My experience and knowledge13 does not provide information as to whether or14 not a device that's connected to a15 terminal -- I mean to a server, all of the16 machines on that server are played against17 each other. It's not true.18 Q. The videos you saw had one19 machine playing at a time, correct?20 A. That's right.21 Q. And you saw the officer playing22 the machine, right?23 A. Yes.

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1 Q. And because it didn't show him 2 playing against anybody else on the video, 3 you're concluding there was nobody else 4 playing against him? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. Any other basis for that? 7 A. Well, based on some of the -- 8 have you heard of progressive machines in a 9 casino where a series of machines are10 connected to a server? Each machine is11 independent except when it comes to the12 jackpot, because every bet that's placed by13 any or all of the players goes into that14 jackpot to increase it. Now, you don't play15 against each other; you play against the16 machine.17 Q. Well, it's based on what the18 software is, isn't it?19 A. Yes. And as I told you, that's20 exhibited or displayed on the screen once21 it's activated.22 Q. It's based on, in a casino,23 whether you're playing the regular slot

Page 200

1 machine game or the progressive where you're 2 playing against other people, it depends on 3 what the software says, correct? 4 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 5 form. 6 A. Yeah. You're not playing 7 against other people in a progressive. 8 Q. Let me get back to my 9 understanding of what you said in terms of10 why this is not a Bingo game and why they're11 not playing against each other.12 You said the video showed the13 officer playing against one terminal,14 correct?15 A. That's correct. But it doesn't16 show --17 Q. And the video didn't show what18 was happening at other terminals, did it?19 A. That's right. It does not show20 other players playing against them.21 Q. And so the video -- if the22 video showed the whole place, it might show23 other players playing against him, right?


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Page 201

1 A. No. 2 Q. If you could see -- are you 3 telling me -- 4 MR. REAGAN: Object. Let 5 the Witness have time to answer the 6 question. 7 Q. Are you telling me that if the 8 video were expansive and showed all of the 9 video, all of the terminals being played10 together, that you couldn't tell if there was11 more than one player playing against each12 other?13 A. I'm saying that if they're14 playing at the same time doesn't mean they're15 playing each other. They're playing16 independently from each machine that's17 operated.18 Q. What is your basis for saying19 that they're playing --20 A. Past experience.21 THE COURT REPORTER: Hold on22 one -- please speak one at a time.23 Q. Okay. Past experience?

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1 A. Yes. 2 Q. They're playing independently 3 not against each other, correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Past experience. What 6 experience tells you that the players at an 7 electronic Bingo hall were playing against 8 the machine and not against each other? 9 A. An electronic Bingo hall, where10 is that? You don't have one here. These11 machines are not Bingo games.12 Q. So the reasons why you're13 saying that they're not playing against each14 other is because they're not electronic Bingo15 games, correct?16 A. Part of the reason, yes.17 Q. Any other reason other than the18 players are not playing against each other19 because these aren't electronic Bingo games?20 Do you have any other basis for your21 testimony other than that they are not22 electronic Bingo games?23 MR. REAGAN: Objection.

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1 A. They are independent devices. 2 They stand alone. The only thing the server 3 provides is the program for the game. 4 Q. The server provides the program 5 for the game? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. And the game is played on each 8 terminal, correct? 9 A. Yes.10 Q. And it's your sworn testimony11 that the -- and you're under oath. But it's12 your sworn testimony that the players are not13 playing against each other on different14 terminals to determine who wins the Bingo15 prize, correct?16 A. That's correct.17 Q. And your testimony for that is18 this is not an electronic Bingo hall; these19 are slot machines, correct?20 A. In my opinion, they are slot21 machines.22 Q. Do you have any other basis for23 your testimony that the players are not

Page 204

1 playing against each other? 2 A. Other than past experience, no, 3 and the fact it was not displayed in the 4 video. 5 Q. Do you deny that somebody who's 6 an expert in software design and development 7 could come in and determine whether or not 8 the software on the server controls the play 9 on the Bingo games?10 A. What do you mean by "control11 the play"?12 Q. Let's ask it differently:13 You're not a software expert, correct?14 A. That's correct.15 Q. And if somebody could come in16 and read the software and analyze it and17 determine whether or not -- let me ask it18 differently.19 Do you deny under oath that a20 software expert could come in and look at the21 software and determine whether or not the22 players are playing against each other for23 the Bingo prize?


(51) Pages 201 - 204



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1 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 2 form. 3 A. They could determine that, but 4 that doesn't mean that's what occurred 5 currently on the devices. 6 Q. And it's your sworn testimony 7 that the software on those machines doesn't 8 control whether the players are playing by 9 themselves or against each other?10 A. It doesn't do otherwise either.11 Q. I'm not asking you -- that's12 not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you for13 a yes or no.14 MR. SOMERVILLE: What was15 the question?16 MR. REAGAN: Hey, Will,17 we've been at it for about an hour,18 so if you guys want to take a19 break.20 (Whereupon, The Court Reporter21 read the requested portion of22 the deposition proceedings.)23 (Whereupon, a brief recess was

Page 206

1 taken.) 2 BY MR. SOMERVILLE: 3 Q. You said also there was not an 4 announcer in the Bingo games that you saw, 5 correct? 6 A. There was not. 7 Q. Yeah, you said that was the 8 reason why it was not real Bingo, because 9 there was no announcer?10 A. That's correct.11 Q. And I understand under Alabama12 law, there has to be an announcement of who13 wins, right, or an announcement of the cards14 or something like that?15 A. The balls drawn are announced.16 Q. Well, are you saying the17 announcement can't happen in writing?18 A. It's not an announcement if19 it's written statement.20 Q. Okay. So let me ask you this.21 My daughter got married, right? And they22 sent out like an announcement.23 A. Yeah.

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1 Q. And it was written. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Are you telling my daughter she 4 didn't get married because it wasn't an oral 5 announcement? 6 A. That's an entirely different -- 7 Q. We had some guy go around to 8 the different doors and say, Bee got married; 9 is that not an announcement?10 A. That's an entirely different11 category. You have birth announcements; you12 have wedding announcements; you have13 graduation announcements. They have no14 bearing on this case.15 Q. So the word "announcement"16 doesn't mean the same thing in Bingo as it17 does in every other aspect of life?18 A. No. The definition of an19 announcement is, but the category that it's20 in does differ.21 Q. And that the cards don't have22 numbers -- they have numbers but no letters?23 That's the last thing you talked about.

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1 A. The cards that are on display 2 on the devices, that's true; just numbers. 3 Q. And so you're telling me that 4 it's a crime to have a Bingo card with only 5 numbers and no letters on it? 6 A. I don't ever remember 7 mentioning that it's a crime. I just said 8 that it was not -- 9 Q. Well, we're here to talk about10 whether these Bingo games are illegal or not.11 And one reason you're giving that they're not12 legal is there's no letter on them.13 A. No, I'm not. I'm giving you --14 Q. That's what I heard. Are you15 changing your testimony?16 A. That's what you wanted to hear.17 What I said was that the cards that display18 numbers do not display letters, and that19 whatever they display has no bearing on the20 game that's played because it's not Bingo.21 Q. My question to you is this:22 Does it matter to you that the Bingo card has23 numbers, only numbers, and no letters?


(52) Pages 205 - 208



Page 209

1 A. No. Because it doesn't have a 2 bearing on the game being played. 3 Q. I mean in a regular -- in a 4 real Bingo game? 5 A. It wouldn't have -- 6 Q. Let's say we're playing in what 7 you would refer to as a pre-1988, 8 pre-personal computer Bingo game, right; and 9 they're announcing; we've got paper cards. I10 mean, are you telling me it wouldn't be Bingo11 if the numbered cards didn't have letters on12 them?13 A. I don't know what you're14 talking about because you said computer era;15 now you have cards. Who's got the cards?16 What are the cards distributed? What game17 are you playing?18 Q. I'm talking about before the19 computer era.20 A. Okay.21 Q. Like 1988 and previously,22 right, before the advent of a lot of PCs,23 before everybody had a personal computer --

Page 210

1 A. We had computers in 1988. 2 Q. I'm saying before everybody had 3 a personal computer. 4 A. Yeah, okay. 5 Q. Okay? Are you saying that it 6 was illegal to play Bingo, that it would have 7 been a crime to play a Bingo game for prizes 8 or money if the cards didn't have letters in 9 addition to numbers?10 MR. REAGAN: Object to the11 form.12 A. No.13 Q. You're not saying that?14 A. No, I'm not saying that. What15 I'm saying is that no game would occur16 without the letters and the numbers. And in17 a real true game of Bingo, they're required.18 Not an electronic, because these are not19 Bingo games.20 Q. So what you're saying is that21 if you didn't have letters on the cards, in22 addition to the numbers, that it wouldn't be23 a real, true game of Bingo, correct?

Page 211

1 A. Along with the other 2 characteristics, correct. 3 Q. Along with the other 4 characteristics. 5 So, in other words, since 6 gambling is illegal unless there's an 7 exception for it, like a specific exception 8 for Bingo, because that wouldn't be Bingo 9 because it didn't have the letters in10 addition to the numbers, then isn't it true11 that it would then be illegal to be playing12 it without those letters?13 MR. REAGAN: Object to the14 form of the question.15 A. Number one, I don't believe16 there's any Bingo game that would be17 conducted without the letters. So to answer18 your question, no, it would be a violation of19 policy, and they wouldn't do it.20 Q. Hypothetically, okay, are you21 aware that it's appropriate to ask an expert22 a hypothetical question?23 A. Yes.

Page 212

1 Q. So, hypothetically, assume that 2 we're a universe around here in Alabama, 3 okay, in which a Bingo game could be 4 played -- let me withdraw that. 5 Hypothetically, if a Bingo game 6 were played without letters prior to the 7 advent of everybody having a personal 8 computer, roughly in 1988 or so, are you 9 telling me that hypothetically if that10 happened, then it would be a crime to be11 playing Bingo, paper card Bingo, without12 letters in addition to numbers?13 A. Well, I don't know about it14 being a crime, but it would not function15 because you don't know where the letters are.16 It would be just numbers, and it wouldn't be17 called Bingo.18 Q. I don't want to argue with you.19 You couldn't just say 15, instead of B-15.20 A. You could.21 Q. The caller couldn't just say22 that?23 A. You could, but then it's not


(53) Pages 209 - 212



Page 213

1 Bingo. 2 Q. So it's illegal, correct? 3 A. I think being illegal depends a 4 lot on what the state statutes are. And 5 the -- 6 Q. Assume for me that the State 7 statute says that a lottery is illegal unless 8 it's Bingo, okay? You're telling me that 9 it's not Bingo because it doesn't have the10 letters, correct?11 A. Yes.12 Q. And so then it would be illegal13 gambling, correct?14 A. Yes.15 Q. What about a deaf player.16 Hypothetically, consider the case of a deaf17 player. Do you think deaf people are allowed18 to play Bingo?19 A. Sure.20 Q. And how do they get the21 announcement?22 A. Post it up on the board or they23 have an aide, someone that is sitting next to

Page 214

1 them and telling them what was called. 2 Q. Telling them, like yelling real 3 loud into their ear? 4 A. That or pointing it out. 5 Q. Has to point it out? But I 6 thought that it couldn't be an announcement 7 unless it was sound stated orally; which is 8 it? 9 A. It is announced orally, but the10 receptor is a person sitting next to the deaf11 person who then alerts the deaf person about12 what was called.13 Q. Have you seen those Saturday14 Night Live episodes where they have deaf15 people, and they have a guy yelling in their16 ears real loud, like the hearing impaired.17 Is that kind of like what you're talking18 about doing?19 MR. REAGAN: Object to the20 form of the question.21 Q. Did you see in the -- look on22 page -- I think it's 11, there's a -- do you23 see the label on here, it says -- on

Page 215

1 Exhibit 11? 2 A. Cadillac Jack. 3 Q. There's a label. Do they have 4 labels like this on all of the machines you 5 saw? 6 A. The paper one at the top of the 7 picture? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Yes.10 Q. Do all of the labels say who11 the cash was removed by?12 A. We don't know that the cash was13 removed by Cadillac Jack, if that's what14 you're implying.15 Q. It says, Cash removed by such16 and such. Do you see that? It's the second17 line from the --18 A. Yeah, okay.19 Q. And it says date and time. My20 question is: Do all of the machines that you21 saw have labels stating who the cash was22 removed by?23 A. I don't know. I know they all

Page 216

1 had labels, but I don't know who removed the 2 cash. 3 Q. In your experience in dealing 4 with gambling and stuff like that, gambling 5 prosecutions, gambling investigations, and 6 that sort of thing, is it necessary in order 7 to condemn a fund of money, is it necessary 8 to know that the money actually came from 9 illegal activity?10 A. If you take it out of the11 machine, it's assumed that it was.12 Q. What if it wasn't taken out of13 the machine or if you didn't keep track of14 what machine you took it out of, that would15 be a problem, wouldn't it?16 A. It would, but, number one, that17 wouldn't happen.18 Q. Why not?19 A. I wouldn't let it happen.20 Q. Okay. But you're not saying it21 wouldn't happen anywhere ever?22 A. No. Everything's possible.23 Q. Do you know what a VLT is?


(54) Pages 213 - 216



Page 217

1 A. Video lottery terminal. 2 Q. What is that? 3 A. It's where a terminal exists 4 where video lotteries are -- in fact, when 5 you change them and they're slot machines, 6 they're called video lottery terminals. 7 Q. How many states have video -- 8 let me make sure we get some background. 9 Video lottery terminal,10 generally, as far as state-run lotteries are11 concerned, is where the states actually12 sponsor the video lottery terminals as a way13 of playing their state lottery, correct?14 MR. REAGAN: Object to the15 form.16 A. No. I don't know that for a17 fact, because most states sell tickets for18 their lottery. And video lottery terminals19 are classified in casino.20 Q. Is it your sworn testimony that21 the state of New York, for example, does not22 maintain video lottery terminals that it uses23 to allow people to play its state lottery?

Page 218

1 MR. REAGAN: Object to the 2 form. 3 A. They sell tickets. 4 Q. They also sell the ability to 5 put a ticket into a video lottery terminal, 6 correct? 7 A. I don't know that for a fact. 8 Q. Or to buy a playing opportunity 9 on a video lottery terminal, correct?10 MR. REAGAN: Object to the11 form.12 A. I don't know that for a fact.13 Q. Well, if somebody from New York14 told you that was correct, then you would15 have to agree with them, wouldn't you?16 A. Yes.17 Q. You would have no basis for18 disputing that, would you?19 A. That's right.20 Q. Video lottery terminals have21 spinning reels on them, don't they?22 A. They're slot machines.23 Q. Even if New York law says

Page 219

1 they're not slot machines? 2 A. It doesn't matter what you name 3 it. It's what the policy dictates will be 4 exceptions. 5 Q. Would you say that a video 6 lottery terminal is a device used in the 7 playing phase of a lottery scheme? 8 A. It could be. 9 Q. Would you say that a Bingo10 terminal could be a device used in the11 playing phase of a lottery scheme?12 A. I disagree.13 Q. Why?14 A. Because Bingo is not a lottery15 scheme.16 Q. Is Bingo a lottery?17 A. I think that's determined by18 law, because there are exceptions to Bingo,19 and there are some type of Bingo games that20 are illegal.21 Q. A lottery is where people22 generally compete against each other for a23 prize, correct?

Page 220

1 A. No. You buy a ticket. 2 Q. That's the only way to do a 3 lottery, is to buy a ticket? 4 A. As far as I know, yes. 5 Q. Are you familiar with what 6 Alabama law is as far as a lottery is 7 concerned? 8 A. No. 9 Q. I think we've got the10 definition of lottery. Exhibit 29, look at11 Exhibit 29. Paragraph 6 on Exhibit 29.12 A. Yes.13 Q. You see that it says, "An14 unlawful gambling scheme in which, A, the15 players pay or agree to pay something of16 value for chances represented and17 differentiated by numbers or by combinations18 of numbers or by some other medium, one or19 more of which chances are to be designated by20 the winning ones." Do you see that?21 A. I don't see where it says22 "unlawful." It says, "The player agrees to23 pay something of value for chances


(55) Pages 217 - 220



Page 221

1 represented" -- 2 Q. Look right before that where it 3 says, Paragraph 6. Parenthesis 6, says, 4 "Lottery or Policy." 5 A. Okay. 6 Q. Do you see that? It says, 7 "Unlawful gambling scheme." Do you see that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. "Players pay or agree to pay10 something." Now, you would agree that if11 Bingo weren't legal in a particular county,12 if there wasn't a special exception passed13 for Bingo, that Bingo would be an illegal14 lottery that would fall within this15 definition, correct?16 A. Yes.17 Q. And don't you agree that the18 term "gambling device," Paragraph 5, in the19 second sentence, "Excludes lottery tickets,20 policy slips, and other items used in the21 playing phases of lottery and policy22 schemes." Do you see that?23 A. Yeah.

Page 222

1 Q. Do you agree that items used to 2 play lotteries don't fall within the 3 definition of gambling device? 4 A. I disagree. 5 Q. Are you telling me that 6 Paragraph 5 doesn't exclude lottery tickets, 7 policy slips, and other items used in the 8 playing phases of lottery and policy schemes? 9 A. What was your original10 question?11 Q. Items used to play Bingo, do12 they fall within the definition of gambling13 device in this definition?14 A. No.15 MR. SOMERVILLE: That's all16 I've got.17 MR. CARLISLE: We don't have18 any questions.19 MR. REAGAN: Just one20 question from the State.21 EXAMINATION22 BY MR. REAGAN: 23 Q. Mr. Holmes, I'd like to direct

Page 223

1 your attention to the binder that was 2 provided to you by the State that Mr. Bolton 3 referenced in his testimony. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And in the index, Number 2 is a 6 case styled Barber v. Cornerstone. And it's 7 Tab 2. And I'm going to turn to page 25 of 8 Tab 2, which is the Cornerstone case. And 9 I'm going to direct your attention to page10 25. And do you see these paragraphs11 beginning with Number 1 through Number 6?12 A. Yes.13 MR. BOLTON: I object,14 because I asked him if he relied on15 any of the materials in that binder16 in reaching the opinions in this17 case, and he said no.18 MR. REAGAN: It's noted.19 BY MR. REAGAN: 20 Q. And if you will look at those21 six paragraphs. Before today and before you22 examined the machines, have you read those23 six paragraphs before?

Page 224

1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do the machines that you 3 observed and evaluated in this case meet the 4 criteria set forth in the Cornerstone case on 5 page 25 in the six characteristics? 6 A. No, not in my opinion. 7 MR. REAGAN: Thank you. I 8 have no furthers questions. 9 EXAMINATION10 BY MR. BOLTON: 11 Q. Mr. Holmes, in the electronic12 games, like devices like iPhones and iPads,13 what controls the operation of those devices?14 A. They're programs.15 Q. And when you say "programs,"16 you mean software, don't you?17 A. Yes.18 Q. And in the devices that you19 examined in this case, the electronic20 devices, is the operation and play of those21 devices also controlled by the program or the22 software?23 A. Yes.


(56) Pages 221 - 224



Page 225

1 Q. And you didn't examine the 2 software or the program? 3 A. No. As I said, whatever the 4 program is, i.e., software is displayed on 5 the screen which depicts the type of game 6 it's supposed to be depicting. 7 Q. And that software is what 8 controls the operation and play of that 9 device?10 A. It controls the game that's11 being displayed, yes.12 MR. BOLTON: That's all I13 have.14 MR. REAGAN: Thank you.15 Before we go off the Record, there16 is something we need to -- from the17 outset, we had agreed on the usual18 stipulations. We would like an19 opportunity to read over the20 transcript. I realize we're in a21 compressed time frame right now.22 We don't need a full 30 days, but23 we would like the opportunity to

Page 226

1 read over the transcript and make 2 any corrections if there are any. 3 MR. BOLTON: And we want to 4 depose the witnesses you intend to 5 use for cash, and also I think 6 you've got some undercover agents 7 for June 18, 28, and 29, 2010. 8 We want to depose the 9 witnesses that you intend to use10 for cash. What we've been able to11 identify are Gary Lambert, Charles12 Tressler, and Mark Boyd. There may13 be others. If there are that you14 intend to use, then we may want to15 depose them.16 You did an undercover17 detail on June 18 with Manny18 Orozco, on June 28th with James19 Collins, and then on June 29th with20 Manny Orozco and James Collins. We21 can start with those.22 MR. REAGAN: Okay. We'll23 work on that.

Page 227

1 MR. KACHELMAN: We want to 2 depose Nat Wynn, so y'all need to 3 get us a date on that, too. 4 MR. BOLTON: That's the 5 first I've heard of it. 6 MR. KACHELMAN: Okay. I 7 thought we had sent that in an 8 e-mail before. I apologize if 9 that's the first time. I thought10 we had indicated to y'all we needed11 to --12 MS. SPENCER: I think we've13 talked about the VictoryLand case14 depositions more than the15 Greenetrack case.16 MR. KACHELMAN: And then I'm17 assuming, depending on how next18 week goes, we're wanting to try and19 depose a representative witness20 from y'all's companies. So I don't21 know how y'all want to structure22 that or do that. I mean,23 obviously, I guess for y'all who

Page 228

1 have filed a motion to dismiss, 2 what he does next week is going to 3 make a determination, I guess, on 4 how y'all proceed. 5 If we need to file a 6 formal notice, we will do that. I 7 mean, we don't have a problem doing 8 that. We don't know who to 9 designate, though, so ...10 Just serve it on you?11 MR. SOMERVILLE: Designate12 the topics.13 MR. KACHELMAN: We can do14 that.15 (The deposition of WILLIAM L.16 HOLMES concluded at17 approximately 2:48 p.m.)18 19 * * * * * * * * * * *20 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT21 * * * * * * * * * * *22 23


(57) Pages 225 - 228



Page 229

1 * * * * * * * * * * * 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 3 * * * * * * * * * * * 4 STATE OF ALABAMA) 5 COUNTY OF MONTGOMERY) 6 I, Cornelia J. Baker, Certified Court 7 Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and 8 Notary Public in and for the State of 9 Alabama at Large, do hereby certify that on 10 Thursday, July 3, 2014, I reported the 11 aforementioned proceedings, and that the 12 pages herein contain a true and accurate 13 transcription of the said proceedings. 14 I further certify that I am neither of 15 kin nor of counsel to the parties to said 16 cause, nor in any manner interested in the 17 results thereof. 18 This the 3rd day of July, 2014. 19 20 Cornelia J. Baker, ACCR 29021 Certified Shorthand Reporter, Certified Court Reporter and22 Notary Public for the State of Alabama23 My Commission expires 6/6/16.

Page 230

1 * * * * * * * * * * * 2 INSTRUCTIONS TO THE WITNESS 3 * * * * * * * * * * * 4 5 Please indicate necessary corrections 6 on the errata sheet. With all changes 7 completed, please sign and date the 8 Certificate Page and Errata Sheet before a 9 Notary. 10 The Notarized Signature Page and 11 Errata Sheet must be returned to us within 12 thirty (30) days from the date you receive 13 this transcript. If, after thirty (30) 14 days, the Notarized Signature Page and 15 Errata Sheet is not returned to the address 16 indicated below, the right is waived to 17 make any changes to the deposition. 18 19 Return the Notarized Certificate Page and Errata Sheet to:20 Baker & Baker Reporting and Video Services21 Post Office Box 240306 Montgomery, Alabama 36124-030622 23

Page 231

1 CERTIFICATE PAGE and 2 ERRATA SHEET 3 I, , the Witness herein, have read the transcript of 4 my testimony and the same is true and correct, to the best of my knowledge. Any 5 corrections and/or additions, if any, are listed below. 6 7 Deponent's Signature Date 8 9 Sworn to and subscribed before me, this the day of , 20 .10 11 Notary Public in and for12 The State of My Commission expires .13 14 PAGE LINE CORRECTION REASON 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23


(58) Pages 229 - 231



A

ability (2) 164:12;218:4able (17) 48:12;79:3;84:4,8; 89:5;91:21;92:23;93:9; 94:4,12,22;95:20; 98:13;111:8;121:20; 187:23;226:10absentminded (1) 176:7accepted (1) 23:9acceptor (15) 81:23,23;108:14; 110:14,16,17;113:7; 116:18,19;119:3,20; 122:7,7;123:6,12accepts (1) 121:9accessible (1) 106:21accessories (3) 61:11;78:2;81:21accommodation (2) 100:20,23accompanied (1) 132:4according (4) 28:11,12;49:4;183:7accounting (1) 111:21accredited (2) 23:11,17across (7) 114:13;154:18,20; 173:15;175:1,11;176:2Act (6) 45:20,22;46:4,9; 47:4;153:14activate (2) 122:10;143:6activated (2) 83:18;199:21active (2) 51:19;53:9activity (6) 146:12,16,21,23; 147:1;216:9actual (2) 172:2;175:9Actually (11) 67:20;84:6;91:2; 125:7;133:13;174:3,5, 10;196:19;216:8; 217:11add (1) 185:11addition (7) 19:1;61:1;115:6; 210:9,22;211:10;

212:12additional (2) 37:3;137:3address (4) 10:2,21;64:23;136:2adhered (1) 94:9advantage (6) 159:18,22;160:3,5,6, 11advent (2) 209:22;212:7advice (1) 24:15advised (2) 135:12,17affect (5) 115:3;142:2;184:1; 189:20;190:1affiliated (4) 50:19;52:8,13,20affirmed (1) 9:3afternoon (3) 74:12;134:22;177:21again (2) 142:4;152:7against (34) 118:3,5;153:17; 176:4;196:8,9,23; 197:1,2,12,13;198:5, 16;199:2,4,15,15; 200:2,7,11,13,20,23; 201:11;202:3,7,8,13, 18;203:13;204:1,22; 205:9;219:22agencies (1) 12:21agent (6) 11:19;12:4;14:4; 69:15;172:20;173:1agents (1) 226:6ago (9) 22:11;38:4;69:11; 128:14;148:6;157:22; 158:12;170:18;195:12agree (12) 87:12;99:22;143:17; 154:2;162:2;194:17; 218:15;220:15;221:9, 10,17;222:1agreed (7) 4:6,20;5:7;18:9;19:9, 14;225:17agreement (1) 63:4agrees (1) 220:22ahead (3) 10:12;57:10;108:19aide (1) 213:23

Alabama (33) 18:3;20:15,16;43:11; 59:15,19;63:5,19; 65:12;66:20;87:7; 103:19;136:23;144:16; 147:12;149:8,14,20; 150:4,9;151:21;152:2; 153:2,12;161:6; 169:10,14;170:1,14,21; 206:11;212:2;220:6alerts (1) 214:11allow (2) 39:7;217:23allowed (3) 151:15;157:15; 213:17allowing (2) 135:13,18allows (1) 160:23alluded (2) 169:15;171:5almost (1) 62:3alone (1) 203:2along (4) 103:23;171:19; 211:1,3Alpha (1) 194:19altered (4) 55:1,7;58:12,21Although (1) 9:14always (2) 68:3;162:21amendment (7) 135:13,18;136:2,6,9, 16;147:14American (10) 59:22;140:19;141:2; 148:13;150:8;151:6, 19;152:2;153:2,12amount (2) 120:4,6amounts (1) 120:20amusement (1) 16:11analysis (9) 14:10;15:2;141:15; 142:2,8,16;190:3,20; 192:5analyze (4) 22:21;90:13;192:8; 204:16analyzed (1) 177:20analyzing (1) 90:14Andy (1)

171:19Annandale (1) 10:14A-N-N-A-N-D-A-L-E (1) 10:15announced (4) 183:15,15;206:15; 214:9announcement (11) 206:12,13,17,18,22; 207:5,9,15,19;213:21; 214:6announcements (3) 207:11,12,13announcer (7) 37:1;158:22;183:16; 184:14;185:16;206:4,9announcing (1) 209:9answered (5) 57:9;76:12;140:12; 150:11;167:10apologize (3) 57:18;133:9;227:8apparent (6) 108:13;110:15,15; 113:8;119:1;181:5appeared (2) 82:2;107:5appearing (1) 16:23appears (5) 56:19;90:12;121:17; 123:12;192:9appended (1) 30:6appreciable (1) 142:5appreciate (1) 68:14appropriate (1) 211:21approved (2) 63:11;103:3approximate (1) 60:11approximately (2) 137:16;228:17April (1) 170:13area (3) 14:23;35:13;100:13argue (1) 212:18around (9) 18:6;35:22;36:7; 67:7,8,14;192:18; 207:7;212:2arrested (1) 177:11arrive (1) 18:3arrived (2)

67:5,6Art (1) 13:7article (3) 16:7;134:3,5articles (1) 26:20aspect (2) 28:12;207:17aspects (2) 22:23;157:1assist (1) 74:8assistance (1) 13:20assistants (1) 14:8assisted (2) 14:9;154:22associated (1) 146:22Associates (10) 10:20,22;11:2;22:13, 14,18;51:23;54:11; 63:2;81:5Association (1) 170:5assume (5) 33:5;174:16;175:18; 212:1;213:6assumed (1) 216:11assuming (1) 227:17Atlantic (1) 55:6attached (11) 17:17;29:20;62:19; 102:20;103:12;105:4; 109:6;129:22;138:11; 144:23;179:4attempt (3) 178:19,23;179:8attended (1) 65:2attention (3) 19:7;223:1,9Attorney (5) 63:1;64:7;103:19; 104:12,16Australia (6) 32:1;38:19;39:8,10, 16;40:18Australian (1) 39:4authority (2) 23:7;24:17authorizing (1) 136:10automatically (1) 188:20available (1) 18:12


(1) ability - available



avoid (1) 171:21award (3) 96:21;97:11;164:23awarded (2) 93:13;94:5aware (9) 139:6;147:12; 148:17;149:6;150:2; 182:13,16;184:7; 211:21awhile (1) 12:12

B

B-15 (1) 212:19B-39 (1) 118:17Bachelor's (1) 25:6back (11) 27:2;32:2;48:18; 95:17;101:10;128:10; 152:9;173:4;177:5,13; 200:8background (2) 54:9;217:8badgering (1) 194:2Baker (1) 4:10bald (1) 69:7ball (6) 93:2;122:8;146:18; 166:17,18,21balls (17) 88:3,4,5,8,15,18,21; 95:7,21;96:3;146:19; 147:2,9;158:23;159:2; 176:18;206:15Bally (6) 78:18;107:20; 118:15;133:7,8;171:20Baltimore (4) 50:16;64:18;137:17; 169:21Bank (5) 110:12;111:18; 112:9;117:14,21Barber (3) 170:4,9;223:6base (5) 180:21;181:19; 182:8;183:5;185:1based (19) 24:13;84:17,19;94:1, 14;96:11,22;97:11; 98:4,11,14;110:5; 139:11;142:7,9; 178:12;199:7,17,22

basically (3) 14:15;35:12;83:7basing (1) 182:20basis (5) 199:6;201:18; 202:20;203:22;218:17beard (2) 69:9,11bearing (12) 114:2,23;115:13; 118:16;182:2,3,7; 183:2,13;207:14; 208:19;209:2bears (1) 194:16Bee (1) 207:8beginning (2) 161:10;223:11belonged (1) 124:21belongs (1) 126:17below (1) 119:19beneath (1) 123:7benefit (1) 190:17besides (6) 61:23;65:3;68:20; 69:15;73:9;77:9bet (19) 93:21;107:22,23,23; 108:1;110:22;111:1; 116:17;118:19,19,21, 22,22,23;129:2,2,3,5; 199:12bets (1) 129:6better (1) 126:2betting (2) 14:17;37:1Bill (21) 10:20,22;11:2;22:13, 14,18;51:23;54:11; 63:2;81:4,23;108:14; 110:13;113:7;116:19; 119:3,20;122:7;123:6, 12;144:13bills (1) 123:8binder (15) 136:12,13,19,20; 137:7,10,18,20,22; 138:9,16,20;170:8; 223:1,15Bingo (279) 20:19;21:15;24:23; 26:12,17;27:6,8,8,9,11; 31:20,23;33:20;36:13,

21;37:2,8,11;40:5,8; 43:15;45:3,6,8,11,14; 46:15,17;47:15;50:7; 59:22;60:11,17;61:15, 18;64:14;65:20,20; 66:20;79:7;80:2;84:21; 85:3,14;87:7;88:2,4,5, 8,15,18,21;89:4,8,13, 17,18,20;90:15,18,22; 91:9,12,16;92:12,15; 94:16,17;95:21;96:2, 12;99:4,7,20,22;100:7, 9;114:3,6;115:16; 117:7;128:17;129:10; 133:11;135:14,18; 136:10;140:5,7,8,14, 18,23;141:5,17;143:16, 20,21;144:7;145:20, 23;146:3,10;147:2,8, 13;148:1,2,8,11,11,12, 21,21,22;149:4,8,12, 13,16,19;150:4,7,16, 20;151:6,20;152:15,16, 20,21;153:21,23;154:5, 6;156:2,4;158:15,16, 21;159:6,23;160:15,16, 17,21,23;161:9,11,15, 22;162:2,3,4,8,16,21; 163:5,6,8,21,23;164:2, 21;165:6,7,9,10;166:5, 5,8,16;167:1,3,12,13, 14,20,20;168:2,3; 169:9,13;171:2,5; 172:2,11;173:8,14; 174:14,21;175:1,11,11, 19;176:4,11,13; 177:11;180:9,17; 181:14,20;182:5,10,12, 13,15;183:3,6,8;184:6; 185:2,4,8,14,22; 187:10,22,23;189:3; 192:16,17;193:14; 194:5,12,14,15;195:3, 7;197:6;198:3;200:10; 202:7,9,11,14,19,22; 203:14,18;204:9,23; 206:4,8;207:16;208:4, 10,20,22;209:4,8,10; 210:6,7,17,19,23; 211:8,8,16;212:3,5,11, 11,17;213:1,8,9,18; 219:9,14,16,18,19; 221:11,13,13;222:11birth (2) 11:10;207:11Black (9) 107:20;109:11,16; 118:11,14;122:8; 124:1;125:4;126:23blanche (1) 120:22blank (5) 107:23;108:1,1;

113:13;118:22block (1) 128:19blocks (1) 128:23blower (1) 147:8blue (2) 122:22;123:5bluffing (1) 157:2BMM (2) 155:13,15board (7) 129:23;176:14,16, 21;177:6;191:20; 213:22boards (2) 122:18;192:1Bob (2) 104:1,4bolt (1) 83:22BOLTON (48) 9:7,16;10:6;19:13, 18;20:1,6,9;48:17; 62:6,12;65:23;66:13, 18;68:8,18;73:19,23; 74:7;76:1,4;100:12; 101:6;102:11;108:22; 109:7;126:6,10,16; 130:20;131:4;137:19; 138:6;139:1;152:8; 153:6,10;158:3;166:3; 171:13,21;173:5; 223:2,13;224:10; 225:12;226:3;227:4book (1) 46:5bookmaking (7) 14:16;27:22;28:2,14; 31:5;34:4;59:7bore (2) 184:3;185:13boss (2) 13:2,6both (5) 34:22;42:22;53:19; 60:6;192:1bottom (3) 108:4;119:12;145:11box (4) 123:5,8,12,13boxes (2) 122:14,16Boyd (1) 226:12break (8) 62:5,9;66:15;73:22; 74:5;101:3;130:22; 205:19brief (5) 62:10;101:8;109:1;

158:6;205:23brought (3) 19:7;46:22;102:5Buffalo (1) 11:23bulletin (1) 27:15bureau (2) 55:16,18Business (8) 12:9;53:11,17,20; 54:15,16,20;173:7button (29) 82:17,22;83:21; 107:22;110:23;112:13; 113:10,11,14,14; 114:19;116:11,12,21, 22,23;119:2,16;131:6, 12;179:11,15,20;180:2, 3,6,14;186:17,19buttons (6) 83:20;107:21; 116:18;118:21,22; 119:13buy (3) 218:8;220:1,3

C

C-23 (1) 125:23C-29 (1) 125:23cabinet (13) 78:3,6,8;85:21;86:1; 112:4;113:9;119:12, 18;121:17;129:20; 130:1,11cabinets (4) 74:22;85:13;98:22; 130:7Cadillac (4) 78:19;110:19;215:2, 13cage (2) 146:19;159:1California (2) 55:9,12call (5) 36:13;89:20;115:16; 116:22;139:4called (20) 26:14,20;27:11; 30:19;31:20,22;38:18; 52:3;99:20;100:5; 106:17;148:22;163:11; 165:12;174:5;176:15; 212:17;214:1,12;217:6caller (2) 159:10;212:21calls (3) 37:1;158:22;159:5came (4)


(2) avoid - came



50:8;51:10;59:19; 216:8camera (2) 106:2,2cameras (1) 94:9can (61) 15:16;20:7;28:8; 41:23;42:6;56:9;62:15; 66:14;68:15;73:6,19; 74:5,18;81:9;89:20; 90:1,5;91:8;100:13; 102:13;106:13;109:13; 112:7;116:22;119:6; 120:7;129:2,3,5,9; 137:19;138:9,15,22; 143:4,16;150:1; 152:22;153:6,19,21; 154:9;159:3,5,7; 160:21;162:7;164:14; 166:14;174:1,17; 186:1;187:17;188:8, 17;189:18;192:15; 193:12,21;226:21; 228:13Canada (5) 31:8;33:12;40:18; 42:2,13Canadian (1) 31:12capable (1) 81:5card (108) 37:2;81:23;89:14,17, 18,22;90:1;110:16,16; 113:7,14,16,23;114:4, 6,8,12,19,22;115:2,7, 10,12;116:18;118:17; 119:3,20,23;120:4,4,6, 10,16;121:1,2,5,7,9,10; 122:7;128:17,20; 129:8,8,10,17;141:17; 142:1;145:23;146:10; 162:2,5,8,11,13,13,15; 163:6,14,21;165:3,13; 173:15;174:11;175:9; 177:7,11,14;180:17; 181:2,5,8,13,14;182:5, 23;183:11,12,22; 185:12;186:6,23; 187:3,5,11,15,17; 188:6,7,9,9,17,18,20; 189:2,4,11,12,23,23; 192:17;193:15;194:12, 14,16;208:4,22;212:11cards (28) 38:16;55:1,7;58:12, 21;89:8;146:15; 156:20;159:2;162:10; 176:8;183:11;184:12, 16,18;185:16,17; 206:13;207:21;208:1, 17;209:9,11,15,15,16;

210:8,21career (1) 172:3careful (1) 68:11CARLISLE (1) 222:17carnival (5) 54:22;55:8,12;58:11, 20Carolina (1) 56:20carry (1) 21:4carte (1) 120:22case (96) 4:22;5:2;9:18;19:21; 21:17;22:6;28:12;29:6; 32:4,8,9,22;33:3,7,17, 23;34:3,4,14,15,16,17; 35:3,14,17,21;36:6,7, 17;37:13,16,22;38:4, 19;40:5;41:11;42:11, 13,14;43:3;47:12; 48:22;55:16,18;60:22; 61:3,13;64:9,11;65:20, 21;80:20;87:7;97:10; 98:20;101:22;121:13; 131:22;133:16;134:21; 136:12,14;138:2,5; 139:11;141:9,16,20; 142:3,17;144:11; 147:23;149:18;150:23; 156:12,14;157:14; 160:16,20;170:6,10; 171:4,11,20;172:8; 192:3;207:14;213:16; 223:6,8,17;224:3,4,19; 227:13,15cases (46) 11:20;15:1;19:12,17, 19;20:14;21:18,20; 27:22,22;28:2,22;31:1, 4,5,7,9,12,13,14,18; 33:11;34:7,22;39:5,20; 40:1;42:1;43:13;48:4; 49:1;50:13;57:4,13,23; 58:2;59:7,8;66:6; 103:23;136:22;138:1, 12,18,21;157:23cash (12) 107:22;108:3; 110:13;113:13;119:1; 215:11,12,15,21;216:2; 226:5,10cashier (1) 120:3casino (7) 45:18;79:10;148:18; 152:2;199:9,22;217:19casinos (11) 46:7;55:6;80:9;

108:6;120:17;151:14; 155:2;156:6,7;168:11; 195:8categories (1) 45:16category (7) 26:14;27:10;28:11; 30:19;151:16;207:11, 19cause (1) 159:15Center (12) 50:16;51:3;52:3,17; 53:1,9,14,14,21;54:1,3, 6certain (7) 45:18;103:22;129:4; 130:13;134:17;138:13; 151:15Certified (13) 4:11;23:5;25:2;45:2, 17;154:12,17;155:4, 21;156:1;169:2,4,5certifies (1) 155:1certify (5) 24:12,13,19,23; 45:11certifying (1) 154:22chain (1) 68:12challenged (2) 36:21;39:3chance (6) 57:6;84:18,19;99:23; 100:9;144:19chances (3) 220:16,19,23change (15) 90:2,6;113:16; 114:19,22;128:16; 129:8;187:11;188:9, 18,20;189:3,11,18; 217:5changed (4) 13:18;115:10;129:9; 187:17changes (3) 115:3;130:18;188:21changing (2) 189:23;208:15characteristic (1) 81:17characteristics (15) 15:13,14;96:17; 142:20;158:19,21; 159:9;160:14;183:9; 185:4,8,11;211:2,4; 224:5Charlanna (1) 9:17Charles (1)

226:11chart (1) 110:14check (2) 101:3;114:14Chicago (1) 25:9chief (2) 13:11,12circuit (4) 122:18;129:23; 191:20;192:1circulate (1) 159:2cite (3) 32:12,13;136:14cited (2) 56:11;136:13City (1) 55:6Civil (1) 4:9claim (2) 82:13;174:9claimed (1) 135:4clarification (1) 135:22clarify (2) 171:17,23Class (13) 45:11,13;46:15,16, 17,23;47:9;49:12,20, 22;50:3,10;151:1classified (1) 217:19clear (4) 48:8,15;90:11; 108:20client (1) 53:23close (2) 141:11;158:4closed (2) 50:18;60:4closely (2) 178:8,10clue (2) 111:12;154:9code (8) 44:15,17;81:6,11; 87:15,23;142:9;170:14coin (4) 83:23;119:13,16; 174:4coins (1) 111:23College (1) 25:8Collins (2) 226:19,20color (1) 16:6

colors (2) 16:2,3combination (4) 83:19;108:5;159:16; 160:2combinations (3) 16:5;90:20;220:17coming (2) 59:19;122:8commercial (3) 14:23;167:5,13commission (8) 4:12;24:18;39:4,12; 45:16;47:2;154:22; 168:10Commissioner (1) 4:11committing (1) 175:12common (6) 93:2;166:17,18,21; 196:6;198:6communicate (1) 64:15communication (4) 66:2;103:18;104:14, 18communications (1) 65:10compact (7) 47:17;151:17; 152:13,18,22;153:3,13compacts (1) 151:20companies (1) 227:20company (1) 51:23compete (1) 219:22components (5) 77:9,12,14,16;78:5compressed (1) 225:21compulsive (10) 50:13,16;51:3,5; 52:3,17;53:1,13,14,21Computer (15) 24:5;44:1,6,8,13; 158:16;167:15;191:20, 22;209:8,14,19,23; 210:3;212:8computers (1) 210:1Concepts (1) 27:12concerned (2) 217:11;220:7concerning (1) 138:5concluded (1) 228:16concluding (1)


(3) camera - concluding



199:3conclusion (3) 86:20;87:9;185:21condemn (1) 216:7condition (1) 67:12conduct (1) 15:6conducted (4) 36:20;55:5;66:19; 211:17Conference (2) 134:4;137:17conferences (1) 134:11Congress (1) 47:4Congressional (2) 45:20,22connected (5) 71:15;196:13;198:4, 14;199:10connection (1) 112:2consider (1) 213:16consideration (3) 57:6;100:10;144:18considered (1) 143:7consistent (1) 81:22console (5) 107:21;112:14; 113:11;116:11;119:16constitutes (1) 20:17constitutional (4) 135:13,18;136:9; 147:14construed (1) 82:18consultants (1) 51:10consulted (1) 155:9consulting (1) 10:19contact (1) 84:1contacted (1) 64:3contain (2) 81:16;136:2Contained (1) 78:1contains (1) 122:17contend (1) 81:13contents (1) 137:22

continuation (1) 34:14continue (1) 176:20contract (12) 18:15,17,18,23;63:1, 7,14;100:21,22;102:16, 17;104:18contracts (1) 101:17control (5) 113:10;118:16; 186:13;204:10;205:8controlled (1) 224:21controls (4) 204:8;224:13;225:8, 10conversations (1) 58:17cooling (1) 123:2copies (5) 18:14;39:21;40:2; 101:23;102:4copy (10) 10:9;19:12;20:7; 21:5;30:7;63:9;136:15; 137:20;138:16,18copying (1) 101:4Cornelia (1) 4:10Cornerstone (4) 170:10;223:6,8; 224:4corporation (2) 50:21;51:13corrections (1) 226:2correctly (1) 168:9correspondence (1) 101:15counsel (5) 4:6,21;5:8;18:14; 101:13country (2) 154:16;156:3County (14) 40:10;87:7;99:13; 135:12,17;136:1,6,10; 138:2;169:9,11,14; 170:4;221:11couple (7) 12:10;103:23;133:1; 158:4,9;171:17,23course (1) 26:8Court (22) 4:11;10:8;27:19; 28:19;29:4;30:16;41:2, 15;43:11;48:19;56:4,

20,20;60:22;133:23; 152:10;165:22;170:5, 10,12;201:21;205:20courts (1) 40:17cover (6) 10:4;66:5,9;129:22; 146:15;174:4covered (1) 129:23covering (1) 162:17covers (1) 94:10covert (1) 66:19credit (4) 107:23;118:19,20; 120:8credits (10) 82:19;83:7,11;108:2; 111:16;113:4;118:23; 120:8;129:3;131:16crime (8) 11:20;175:12,23; 208:4,7;210:7;212:10, 14criteria (3) 31:15;129:4;224:4currently (1) 205:5custody (1) 68:12cut (1) 67:11CV (11) 26:6;30:7,9,19; 38:15;40:15;42:8,14; 43:4;49:1;158:1

D

dab (1) 166:13data (1) 111:22date (11) 11:10;22:9;25:13; 32:7;47:5,7;57:12; 64:20;79:15;215:19; 227:3dated (3) 63:15;101:13;103:8dates (4) 60:10,11,16;80:10daub (20) 116:17,21;119:2; 131:6,11,11;163:6,12, 14,20;164:6;165:13; 166:9;179:10,14,20; 180:2,3,6,14D-A-U-B (1) 131:6

daubed (3) 164:1;165:4,8dauber (1) 146:14daubing (2) 173:6,8daughter (2) 206:21;207:3day (2) 9:23;163:22days (3) 49:7;133:1;225:22DC (6) 12:18;86:21;155:10; 197:16,19;198:11deaf (6) 213:15,16,17; 214:10,11,14dealing (1) 216:3dealings (3) 13:23;87:3;155:18dealt (1) 156:20Dean (1) 33:3decided (3) 170:6,11,12decision (4) 15:9;34:17;35:5; 39:7decisions (1) 29:2declared (1) 159:6Defendant (1) 156:12Defendants' (10) 17:15;29:15,18; 62:17;102:18;103:10; 104:20;105:2;109:3; 144:21define (1) 117:21defines (3) 21:6,12,15definite (1) 159:17definition (18) 20:18;46:23;136:22; 144:16;145:11,22; 150:20,23;169:9; 170:20;171:1;183:8; 207:18;220:10;221:15; 222:3,12,13degree (4) 25:6,14,22;26:3demand (1) 157:16deny (2) 204:5,19Department (1) 39:14

depend (1) 174:13depending (4) 143:9;151:16;180:1; 227:17depends (4) 15:4;167:22;200:2; 213:3depict (6) 119:7;122:2,4; 123:18;125:23;126:9depicted (4) 125:21;179:23; 197:10,11depicting (2) 90:7;225:6depicts (3) 112:8;196:7;225:5DEPONENT (1) 228:20depose (5) 226:4,8,15;227:2,19deposition (21) 4:7,9,17,23;5:1,9; 17:1,11,12;18:11;20:3, 13;29:16;37:20;48:21; 62:15;101:18;103:7; 152:12;205:22;228:15depositions (1) 227:14described (4) 38:14;98:5;119:18; 120:10description (1) 20:19design (1) 204:6designate (2) 228:9,11designated (1) 220:19designed (3) 44:5,20;156:17detail (1) 226:17determination (2) 98:7;228:3determine (25) 84:5;86:8,11;91:21; 92:23;93:9;94:4,12,22; 95:7,20;98:3;121:20; 128:22;129:14;131:10, 17;141:3;147:23; 179:14;203:14;204:7, 17,21;205:3determined (3) 97:19;179:16;219:17determines (1) 192:17development (1) 204:6device (115) 15:7;16:11,13,14;


(4) conclusion - device



20:18;21:6;24:12,19, 20;35:16,16;38:5,15; 44:20,23;45:3;46:15, 23;49:23;69:21;78:1; 79:7;81:21,22;82:14; 83:20;84:5,16;85:14, 17,18;87:12;89:23; 92:3,10,14;94:8;96:17; 106:4,6;107:14,19; 108:8;109:9,17; 110:10,18;111:3,9,18, 23;112:9,12,14,20,23; 115:17,23;116:6; 118:10,13;119:5,8; 120:11;122:2,10; 123:14,18,23,23; 124:11,15;128:14; 129:3,16;131:11,14; 133:4;141:4;143:4,6, 18,19,23;144:4,16; 145:12,23;146:8; 147:10;151:1;156:16, 22;159:8;160:10; 164:22;167:6,9; 170:21;179:18;183:11; 185:19;190:21,22,23; 191:1,11;197:23; 198:14;219:6,10; 221:18;222:3,13;225:9devices (123) 15:12,15,17;16:17; 23:6;26:17;27:6,9,10; 28:17,20,23;29:1,7; 31:10;32:6;33:3,13,18; 34:9,18,19,20,23; 38:21,23;39:8;42:4; 43:15;46:18;47:9,15; 49:12,21;50:3,7,9;56:7, 23;57:7,21;61:3,15,15, 17,21;67:12,15;68:1,5; 74:23;76:15,16,18; 77:9,21,22;78:12,23; 79:4;80:16;81:6,10,14, 14;82:17;84:18;85:11; 88:22;89:1,13,17; 90:22;91:3,8,17;92:2, 18;93:1,13;94:5,19; 95:14;96:9,22;97:22; 98:4,22;105:1,11; 106:20;107:3,8; 121:13;131:7,12; 133:17;134:9;135:5; 140:1;142:13;143:17; 144:7;147:3;150:16; 151:14,15;167:2,4,11; 191:12,13,14,15,19; 203:1;205:5;208:2; 224:12,13,18,20,21devoted (2) 15:1;59:2diagonal (4) 94:19;161:16;175:3, 5

diagonals (1) 161:14diagram (4) 129:19;130:2,10,12dice (4) 55:2,7;58:12,21dictate (1) 130:15dictated (1) 181:4dictates (3) 90:12;117:1;219:3differ (1) 207:20difference (1) 138:7different (25) 16:2,3,4,20;33:16; 34:14,16;55:8,9;70:20, 20;83:17;84:2;106:23; 140:5,7;148:7;159:21; 163:1;195:23;198:4; 203:13;207:6,8,10differentiated (1) 220:17differently (3) 156:19;204:12,18digital (1) 162:10direct (5) 107:3,8;128:10; 222:23;223:9direction (2) 105:16;186:12director (4) 13:9,14,19;52:18disable (1) 113:12disagree (7) 46:2;164:11;165:17, 19;190:9;219:12;222:4disassembled (2) 34:18,20disbelief (1) 173:23discard (1) 83:19Disclosure (4) 29:17;30:4,7,13discussed (1) 107:6disguise (1) 131:13disguised (1) 15:20dismiss (1) 228:1dispense (1) 38:9dispensed (3) 38:12;82:13;108:6dispenser (5) 82:7;110:14;113:6;

118:18;122:6dispensing (1) 38:15display (13) 33:2;38:10;89:13; 96:23;183:16;192:18; 194:5,19,19;208:1,17, 18,19displayed (14) 83:8;91:19;92:3,12; 96:3;97:7;121:21; 183:18;193:8,14; 199:20;204:3;225:4,11disputing (1) 218:18distorted (1) 114:11distribute (1) 159:1distributed (1) 209:16division (4) 12:1;13:15;39:13; 168:11document (10) 17:13,20,23;29:23; 62:22;102:23;103:15; 105:7;145:3,17documents (6) 18:8,10;19:3,8,20; 20:11done (2) 158:5;190:3doors (1) 207:8doubt (1) 87:8down (10) 14:9;48:13;71:5; 74:14;102:5;114:13; 138:9;141:11;145:10; 173:16Dr (2) 52:12;65:5Draw (18) 15:19,21;32:6;33:19; 34:1,2,10,23;51:15; 83:20;93:2;95:12; 146:19;147:9;157:2; 166:17,18,22drawing (1) 176:19drawn (13) 88:3;95:8,22;147:3; 164:4;166:12;174:2, 18;176:22;177:2,4,7; 206:15Drive (1) 10:14due (1) 131:20duly (1) 9:2

during (9) 13:2;72:2;73:22; 105:11;132:5;172:19, 20,23;173:1DVDs (1) 103:22D-W-A-R-F (1) 16:1Dwarfs (4) 15:21,23;16:1,2

E

ear (1) 214:3earlier (12) 19:10;102:17; 104:23;107:3;131:5; 133:9;145:8,19; 154:11;163:4;169:18; 196:12early (1) 82:17ears (1) 214:16economics (1) 25:6effect (9) 129:11;131:14; 141:22;142:5,16; 181:5,14;187:18; 188:22effects (1) 115:8effort (1) 98:2eight (3) 32:1;36:11;110:22Eighty-four (1) 27:5either (8) 4:18;5:3;49:13; 82:13;93:10;149:20; 164:20;205:10Electronic (51) 24:3,23;26:12,17; 27:6,10;43:14;79:7; 80:2;85:2,14;87:6; 117:6;135:4,4,13; 140:18,23;143:16; 148:2,6,8,10,12,21; 149:4,8,13,19;150:7; 151:20;154:5;158:16; 159:8,23;160:15; 162:4,7;165:6;183:16; 185:18;197:18;202:7, 9,14,19,22;203:18; 210:18;224:11,19electronically (3) 143:20;156:20;162:9electronics (1) 197:22elements (6)

100:8;158:13,15,19; 167:22;191:20else (13) 65:6;71:2;80:23; 81:18;85:15;86:10; 104:8;136:8;186:10; 196:22;197:2;199:2,3e-mail (5) 64:23;65:12,13; 104:15;227:8emergency (3) 18:17;62:23;63:14employ (2) 23:23;46:7employed (3) 10:16;80:12;157:1employee (1) 54:3employees (3) 22:13;51:6,9employment (2) 26:8;54:10enacted (5) 45:23;46:9;47:4; 49:5;141:13enactment (1) 49:23end (3) 98:12;111:13;193:22enforcement (2) 27:15;58:18engagement (1) 147:22engineer (3) 43:18;44:3;86:23engineers (4) 24:3,5,7;43:20entered (1) 67:23entertaining (2) 96:22;97:2entirely (2) 207:6,10entitled (3) 29:16;36:14;40:6entity (2) 52:2;53:15episodes (1) 214:14equipment (3) 22:22;23:21;61:9era (2) 209:14,19established (4) 31:15;74:1;94:18; 161:10estimate (1) 110:4etc (6) 16:22;93:21;112:1; 126:1;134:12;157:4evaluate (3) 178:1,5,6


(5) devices - evaluate



evaluated (5) 172:3;177:20; 190:17,18;224:3evaluation (1) 172:6even (4) 153:5;165:20;177:1; 218:23Everhart (1) 13:7everybody (3) 209:23;210:2;212:7everyone (1) 102:6Everything's (1) 216:22evidence (9) 4:17;12:20;14:11; 22:5;68:11;106:5,17; 125:20,23Ex (3) 138:4;170:11,13exact (1) 124:20exactly (1) 178:14EXAMINATION (15) 9:6;44:10;54:15,19; 75:19,20;80:19;86:8, 11;87:11;93:11;99:9; 171:15;222:21;224:9examine (9) 14:12;70:3;76:15; 77:8;80:9,14;84:11; 86:19;225:1examined (14) 12:20;15:12;44:8; 61:2,5;86:16,16;87:14, 18;95:16;96:6;129:21; 223:22;224:19examining (4) 15:18;81:5,10;135:2example (6) 80:8;129:4;148:14; 180:2;195:7;217:21examples (1) 15:17except (2) 117:23;199:11exception (5) 146:1,2;211:7,7; 221:12exceptions (3) 100:6;219:4,18excess (1) 40:16exclude (1) 222:6Excludes (1) 221:19Excuse (4) 51:17;104:17; 113:11;115:15

executed (1) 103:3Exhibit (52) 17:10,15;29:15,18; 62:14,17;102:14,18; 103:7,10;104:20; 105:2;107:12;109:3, 14,15;112:8,11;119:10, 11;122:4;124:11,18; 125:8,14;126:14,20; 127:1,2,9,12,13,15,16, 18,20,21,22;128:1,3,5, 8,11,16;134:15;136:7; 137:5;144:21;215:1; 220:10,11,11exhibited (1) 199:20Exhibits (9) 116:5;119:7;124:10, 10;126:5,8,18;127:4,7existence (2) 46:19;148:9exists (1) 217:3expansive (1) 201:8experience (15) 24:14;96:16;99:6; 121:8;134:23;135:1; 140:4;142:9;198:12; 201:20,23;202:5,6; 204:2;216:3experiment (1) 15:7expert (29) 12:23;23:9,9;29:17; 30:3,6,12;40:2,3;41:1, 14,18,19;43:5,10,23; 50:13;59:12;60:21; 61:13;87:6;103:23; 104:5;155:9;182:20; 204:6,13,20;211:21experts' (1) 104:6

F

F-142 (1) 113:2F-70 (1) 110:12facilities (4) 60:17;141:2;148:14; 176:13facility (9) 37:3;40:9;51:4; 59:22;60:12;66:20; 67:23;140:19;151:7fact (13) 69:22;81:15;95:12; 96:14;106:22;159:11; 169:3;185:3;204:3; 217:4,17;218:7,12

factors (1) 185:21facts (5) 182:8,19;183:4; 184:23;185:10fair (1) 98:19fall (3) 221:14;222:2,12familiar (22) 15:5;23:14;50:15; 56:7;90:15;97:6;99:3; 117:16;120:15,23; 143:22;144:1,15; 150:19;154:16;155:15, 17,19;158:14;161:22; 168:1;220:5family (1) 16:5fan (1) 123:2far (7) 63:12;74:10,15; 182:18;217:10;220:4,6Farm (2) 16:20,21fashion (2) 70:3,6faster (1) 142:21FBI (30) 11:5,8,14;12:15,17; 13:6;25:19;26:8;27:14; 28:14;32:16;35:8; 41:20;43:1;47:10,22; 49:13;58:4,23;59:6,11; 80:12;95:18;149:1; 156:9;157:6,9;167:18; 172:20;173:1federal (13) 12:5,21;27:18;28:19; 29:4,6;40:17;43:11; 56:20;150:20;151:1,8; 152:4few (6) 9:18,21,22,23; 128:13;170:18field (2) 11:19;12:4fifteen (1) 143:11fifth (2) 123:21,23figure (7) 172:2;173:5,7; 177:13;178:14;179:19; 182:19figures (1) 97:16file (1) 228:5filed (3) 22:3;30:16;228:1

filing (2) 4:22;5:5find (1) 190:16findings (1) 12:22fine (1) 101:7finish (6) 48:10,14;49:3;153:6; 188:14,15finished (1) 48:8firm (3) 10:19;54:8,19first (31) 9:2;11:17,22;17:22; 22:8;30:2,23;32:22; 34:8,15;57:11;63:18; 64:3;72:20;73:3;93:14; 94:6;107:13;162:17; 172:1;174:16;175:13; 181:7;193:15,15; 194:5,11,15,20;227:5,9fit (1) 146:6fits (2) 27:9;146:7five (37) 16:2,2,5;30:21;41:8, 21,23;51:10;70:4,7,8; 71:23;73:11,16;75:2; 76:16;77:9;80:15; 88:22;98:22;106:19; 107:3;110:20;114:12, 13;116:13;118:15; 132:7;143:8,11; 156:18;163:23;166:6, 6;170:3;173:15,16five-by-five (3) 114:8;194:18,19Florida (9) 31:21;36:2;37:23; 42:5;99:10,11;133:12; 140:14;172:10follow (2) 185:4,7follows (2) 9:5;172:7forensic (8) 25:22;52:3,17;53:1, 14;54:14,19;87:11form (30) 4:14;28:4,7;30:4; 37:6;49:17;56:9,10; 57:2;60:13;77:1;93:17; 100:2;145:20;148:16; 149:23;151:10;165:16; 166:2;194:2,21; 197:21;200:5;205:2; 210:11;211:14;214:20; 217:15;218:2,11formal (1)

228:6formality (1) 4:12format (1) 89:3formed (3) 77:7;178:2,12forth (1) 224:4four (10) 13:3;16:3;67:14,15, 19;68:22;106:16; 110:22;116:13;125:19frame (1) 225:21fraud (2) 55:9;175:20frauds (4) 54:22;55:12;58:12, 20free (1) 113:3front (1) 169:23fruits (1) 16:21full (2) 9:8;225:22function (9) 71:16;111:22; 128:23;131:11;179:6, 14,22;180:6;212:14functioned (1) 120:10functioning (1) 78:13functions (1) 114:19fund (1) 216:7furnished (1) 20:14further (3) 4:20;5:7;228:20furthers (1) 224:8

G

G-23 (8) 105:21;106:3,7,15; 107:14;108:8,11; 126:17gamblers (1) 51:5gambling (80) 11:20;12:2,8,9,17; 14:15;16:13,14;20:17; 21:6,8,9,12;27:10; 28:17,19,23;29:7; 31:10;34:19;35:15,16; 37:4;39:5;42:4;47:4; 49:20;50:13,16;51:3;


(6) evaluated - gambling



52:4,17;53:2,13,15,21; 54:16;56:6,23;57:21; 61:17,21;64:8,11; 81:10,14,22;100:2,8; 133:16;134:4,9;141:4; 143:4;144:16;145:12, 20,23;146:12,16,21,23; 147:3,7,10;150:16; 151:13;156:15;170:21, 21;211:6;213:13; 216:4,4,5;220:14; 221:7,18;222:3,12game (158) 16:8,20;20:19;32:3; 36:13,19,20,22;37:3,8, 11;45:2,6,6,8,11,14; 61:18,19;81:20;83:8; 84:18;85:1;89:20; 91:18;92:12,16;94:16, 17;95:1;96:11,12; 97:10,22;98:4;99:3,7, 23;100:9;113:23; 114:2,23;115:3,9,13, 16;116:1;117:7,8,20; 118:8;129:11,13; 133:11;140:14;141:4, 23;142:5,21;143:21; 148:3,5;152:20; 156:17,23;157:2; 158:15,21;159:7; 160:14,16,17;161:11, 22;162:16,16;163:7,8; 164:2;165:9;166:5,16; 167:2,8,12,15,20,23; 172:11;173:8;179:23; 180:7,9,11,15,18; 181:2,3,8,11,15,20; 182:7,12,22;183:8,13, 22;184:1;185:5,8,12, 22;186:5,20;187:2,4, 10,13,19,22,23;188:22; 189:9,11,19,21;190:1; 192:10,10,16,16;193:2; 196:2,8;197:6,9,10,10; 200:1,10;203:3,5,7; 208:20;209:2,4,8,16; 210:7,15,17,23;211:16; 212:3,5;225:5,10Games (47) 27:11;36:2,16;45:18; 46:6;78:17;79:2;80:2; 81:10;83:14;94:23; 99:8,20;117:3,5,11; 142:14;148:13;150:8, 22;151:5;156:4;167:3; 172:2;182:9,13,16; 183:3,6;184:6;185:2, 14;188:4;193:13; 195:3,7;198:3;202:11, 15,19,22;204:9;206:4; 208:10;210:19;219:19; 224:12gaming (23)

23:5,6;24:12,17,20; 25:3;37:4;39:4;44:20, 23;45:16;46:8;47:1,9; 65:21;77:22;154:13, 17,21;155:22;168:10; 171:20;197:18Gary (1) 226:11gave (4) 59:2;77:15;120:3; 190:8Gene (6) 69:1,4,5,10;132:9; 139:4General (1) 63:2generally (2) 217:10;219:22General's (4) 64:7;103:19;104:12, 16generated (1) 15:9generator (8) 84:12,20,22;85:13, 21;95:11,14;97:14George (1) 25:23gets (1) 194:20given (10) 21:5,11,14;26:7; 27:18;42:23;58:20; 59:5;75:13;185:6gives (1) 129:1giving (3) 169:13;208:11,13glanced (1) 76:21GLI (1) 155:19goatee (1) 69:12goes (5) 36:10;143:8;193:10; 199:13;227:18Good (5) 25:15;41:3;60:2; 62:4;168:22gosh (1) 177:5graduation (1) 207:13graphics (1) 97:20great (1) 66:16Greene (10) 87:7;135:12,17; 136:1,6,10;138:2; 169:9,11,14Greenetrack (3)

9:18;138:4;227:15grounds (1) 10:1guess (6) 49:9;53:22;169:2; 197:14;227:23;228:3guidance (1) 59:6guy (4) 69:7;174:19;207:7; 214:15guys (3) 66:4;131:20;205:18

H

half (1) 110:5hall (8) 166:8;167:13; 175:11,20;176:5; 202:7,9;203:18halls (2) 150:4;176:12handed (7) 17:5;62:13;75:14; 102:14;103:6;104:19; 105:9handheld (4) 167:2,6,8,12handle (2) 122:12,22happen (7) 159:13,17;187:7; 206:17;216:17,19,21happened (9) 181:3,9;182:23; 183:23;185:13;186:6, 7,16;212:10happening (1) 200:18hard (3) 36:18;101:23;102:3Hawaii (4) 31:8,13,14;33:17Hawaiian (1) 31:16head (1) 69:8headed (1) 173:12headquarters (2) 12:1,18heads (1) 83:22hear (1) 208:16heard (7) 9:14;164:20;187:16; 195:9;199:8;208:14; 227:5hearing (1) 214:16

help (1) 179:17hereby (3) 4:5;5:1,10Here's (2) 106:15;182:18hereto (10) 4:19;5:4;17:18; 29:21;62:20;102:21; 103:13;105:5;109:6; 145:1Hey (1) 205:16hit (2) 180:2,3hold (2) 9:20;201:21HOLMES (41) 4:8,23;9:1,10,11; 10:20,22;11:2;17:12; 20:4;22:13,14,18;30:3; 51:23;54:11;60:20; 62:13;63:2;68:6,19; 74:9;81:4;93:23;96:21; 98:20;102:12,14; 104:19;108:15;109:8; 121:3;139:2,14; 141:16;150:7;158:8; 165:11;222:23;224:11; 228:16Holmes' (1) 18:15H-O-L-M-E-S (1) 9:10home (3) 132:20,21;133:6Honolulu (1) 31:16hooked (1) 195:23hopper (1) 146:18horizontal (4) 94:18;161:16;166:6; 175:4horizontals (1) 161:14host (1) 176:14hour (4) 62:4;110:4;130:23; 205:17House (7) 117:4,8,13;118:5; 159:19,23;160:4house-banked (6) 117:2,5,11,13,17,20housed (1) 102:3hundred (1) 113:4hypothetical (1) 211:22

Hypothetically (5) 211:20;212:1,5,9; 213:16

I

identification (8) 17:17;29:20;62:19; 102:20;103:12;105:4; 109:5;144:23identified (6) 19:22;27:17;34:19; 62:14;135:7;170:4identify (5) 41:23;119:6;124:8; 138:10;226:11identifying (2) 74:10;139:18identity (2) 70:10;71:5ie (1) 225:4IGRA (6) 46:22;47:3;49:4,23; 141:12;152:5IGT (5) 15:22;16:10;39:2; 78:18;115:19IGT-manufactured (1) 115:23Illegal (16) 12:8;47:16,17;150:9; 177:10;208:10;210:6; 211:6,11;213:2,3,7,12; 216:9;219:20;221:13image (2) 113:22;114:22images (6) 16:21;89:2,5;96:7; 98:5;118:16impaired (1) 214:16implements (1) 16:21implying (1) 215:14important (1) 42:12include (1) 26:16included (1) 50:10including (3) 14:16;97:13;147:13income (2) 54:5;59:1incorrect (4) 77:5;80:4,5;137:3increase (2) 36:23;199:14independent (2) 199:11;203:1independently (2)


(7) game - independently



201:16;202:2index (1) 223:5Indian (12) 40:13;45:16;46:6,8; 47:3,14;79:10;148:18; 150:14;151:14;172:12; 195:7Indians (1) 153:12indicated (4) 15:10;94:20;159:5; 227:10indication (3) 124:7;150:13;172:5indications (1) 93:18individual (7) 85:18;159:4;175:14; 191:22,23;192:2;193:1individually (1) 108:23individuals (1) 68:23Influence (2) 26:23;97:21Influences (1) 27:12Information (13) 12:10;15:9;137:4,4; 179:5;192:23;193:7, 14;194:12,13,15,20; 198:13informed (1) 139:20ink (1) 146:14input (2) 181:10;186:13inquiries (1) 58:17inserted (1) 121:5inside (13) 61:9;69:20;85:21,23; 94:10,10;108:10; 111:12;112:4;129:20; 130:1,7,10inspection (4) 66:22;67:10;75:4; 98:21instance (1) 15:21instances (1) 58:15instead (2) 176:7;212:19intend (3) 226:4,9,14interact (1) 89:22interaction (1) 90:6

interested (1) 64:7International (1) 134:4interpreted (1) 178:3Interstate (1) 12:9into (13) 4:17;14:23;39:8; 100:13;108:6;110:11; 117:23;120:5;123:9; 186:13;199:13;214:3; 218:5introduced (2) 5:2;14:23investigate (1) 12:3investigated (1) 12:6investigation (3) 49:14;50:4;140:23investigations (3) 28:15;54:10;216:5investigator (3) 55:21;56:2;58:8involve (4) 28:19;38:4,7;39:1involved (13) 28:22;31:9;32:3; 34:1,23;35:16;38:8,20; 39:5;43:14;48:23; 49:20;65:20involving (1) 133:16iPad (2) 167:21,23iPads (1) 224:12iPhones (1) 224:12iPods (1) 167:4irrelevant (4) 114:9;115:14; 129:12;181:21ISO (2) 23:11,18issue (6) 36:16;37:12;101:21; 160:13,13;180:13issues (1) 58:16items (8) 20:11;78:11;146:7; 170:3;221:20;222:1,7, 11ITWI (1) 12:8

J

Jack (4)

78:19;110:20;215:2, 13jackpot (2) 199:12,14James (4) 36:6;168:6;226:18, 20Jefferson (1) 170:4Jersey (4) 47:1;154:21,23; 168:10John (3) 9:16;62:2;101:11Johnson (1) 153:14Judge (2) 190:9,12Judge's (1) 190:16judgment (2) 110:5;130:5June (9) 63:15,17,23;64:1,21; 226:7,17,18,19jurisdiction (3) 23:5;25:3;154:13jurisdictions (3) 154:18;156:3;169:6

K

KACHELMAN (6) 138:3,19;227:1,6,16; 228:13keep (2) 181:7;216:13keeps (1) 117:22key (3) 82:1;83:21;123:13key-operated (1) 83:5keys (5) 110:17;111:2;112:3; 113:9;119:4kind (15) 32:3;33:2,8,13,18; 34:9;35:10;38:23; 41:10;42:14;51:2; 64:10;133:5;176:7; 214:17Kintin (3) 72:8;73:1,10K-I-N-T-I-N (1) 72:8knew (2) 52:23;68:23knock (2) 84:1;111:16knock-off (13) 82:3,15,18,22;83:2,3, 4,5,6,18;84:6;110:19;

111:6knowledge (10) 9:12;54:21;86:14; 123:15;156:2;157:3; 178:12;183:4;195:4; 198:12known (2) 49:22;104:3knows (3) 197:18,19,22Kobetron (1) 23:2

L

lab (18) 12:19;13:6,9,20; 14:3,12;22:19;23:4,11, 20,23;24:11;25:2; 154:12,14;168:13,16; 169:1label (3) 106:6;214:23;215:3labeled (1) 148:10labels (4) 215:4,10,21;216:1laboratory (8) 12:1,16,17;13:15; 154:23;155:3,22; 168:11labs (1) 154:16lack (1) 47:17Ladner (6) 86:21;155:10,11; 197:17,19;198:11lady (1) 48:12Lambert (1) 226:11laser (1) 22:22last (22) 13:5;40:23;41:5,8; 43:3;65:8;67:10;82:11; 88:19;132:14,16,17,21, 23;133:1,10,15;134:8, 12;148:23;155:6; 207:23late (1) 57:14Latent (3) 26:21,23;27:12later (2) 107:5;177:13latest (1) 43:4Laurencio (1) 37:23law (20) 9:16;20:15,16;27:14;

47:18;58:18;144:17; 147:12,16;151:1,8; 152:5;153:17;161:2,3, 6;206:12;218:23; 219:18;220:6lawfully (1) 151:7laws (5) 46:5;100:7;136:23, 23;157:3lawsuit (1) 39:9layout (1) 176:17least (4) 22:10;41:21;59:8; 69:11lectures (2) 26:7,11left (13) 58:4,23;59:6,11; 82:20;83:9;109:9; 110:2,8;115:19; 123:11;157:5;167:17left-hand (1) 122:15Legal (4) 102:15;170:1; 208:12;221:11legally (2) 149:4;152:20legislature (1) 18:20letter (16) 65:12,13,14,18;66:5, 5,9;100:14;101:13; 103:8,21;104:10; 134:16;135:8;136:7; 208:12lettered (1) 106:11letters (19) 159:1;184:22; 185:17,19;207:22; 208:5,18,23;209:11; 210:8,16,21;211:9,12, 17;212:6,12,15;213:10lever (1) 122:9licensed (2) 55:20;56:2Licensing (1) 39:13life (1) 207:17light (1) 22:23likely (2) 15:6;142:22limit (1) 120:21limited (1) 98:21


(8) index - limited



line (7) 116:14,14;175:3,4,4; 176:2;215:17lines (12) 110:20,20,21,21,21; 113:12,12,12;118:19, 19;173:15,16linked (3) 86:5,12;197:5Lira (1) 37:23list (7) 26:6;28:10;56:14; 57:22;130:13;170:8,15listed (14) 16:6;28:11;42:3,8, 10,14,16;43:3;48:4; 49:1;94:10;133:18; 134:12;157:23Listen (1) 149:17Listing (1) 136:22lists (1) 30:23live (14) 10:13;37:10;85:1; 92:17;94:16;117:7; 140:8;148:3,5;160:16; 162:3;163:8;165:9; 214:14live-call (5) 99:20;133:11; 140:13;166:5;176:13loan (3) 14:18;28:15;31:5local (2) 12:21;40:17located (9) 40:9,13;68:1,5;71:7; 84:14,22,23;85:14location (1) 142:1locations (2) 120:1;140:20lock (3) 83:1,3,4locked (1) 123:8locking (1) 123:13log (4) 67:22;68:9,13,17long (6) 11:1;56:1;63:17; 67:9;136:23;164:21look (24) 20:7;25:16;29:10,12; 32:9;70:6;72:3;77:18; 78:5,21,23;86:11; 98:17;104:5;105:11; 106:13;111:12;145:10; 169:17;204:20;214:21;

220:10;221:2;223:20looked (50) 56:18;61:4,6,8; 69:19;70:4,5,10;71:6, 23;72:6,12,23;73:2,7, 17;75:1,21,22;76:6,16, 18;77:6,22;78:12,17; 80:2,16;85:11;88:22, 23;89:2;90:23;91:3,17, 23;92:18;96:9;101:21; 104:23;106:20;107:9; 109:17;139:15;150:23; 170:18;177:22,23; 178:11,15looking (15) 15:11,16;70:19,23; 76:10;80:19;86:3;93:5, 7;98:23;112:7;124:10; 125:16;160:5;179:10looks (8) 35:4;36:7;113:16; 118:11;122:23;123:2, 7;128:12look-see (5) 78:14;93:10;94:2; 132:5;134:22loosely (1) 117:22Lorenz (3) 52:12,14;65:5L-O-R-E-N-Z (1) 65:9lot (5) 15:1;172:6;174:13; 209:22;213:4lotteries (4) 147:13;217:4,10; 222:2lottery (31) 100:4,6;146:8;213:7; 217:1,6,9,12,13,18,18, 22,23;218:5,9,20; 219:6,7,11,14,16,21; 220:3,6,10;221:4,14, 19,21;222:6,8loud (2) 214:3,16lunch (2) 130:23;131:2

M

machine (88) 15:3;24:19;35:19; 66:22;69:21;72:20; 73:1,7,13;78:2;81:17; 82:8;83:22;89:3;92:6; 94:20;97:4,7,20;98:5; 108:4;113:22;114:10, 21;117:14,19,22;118:2, 3,7;120:5;121:6; 124:20;125:9,10,18,22; 126:3,4,5,7,19,23;

127:11,14,16,19,22; 128:2,7;130:14,15; 132:15,19;133:3,5; 140:2;142:22;143:5, 13;154:5;158:13; 159:12,16;163:2; 178:13;180:11,12; 181:22;185:23;187:20; 188:8;192:2,5;196:10; 197:3,11,12;198:19,22; 199:10,16;200:1; 201:16;202:8;216:11, 13,14machines (86) 14:22;16:18;24:23; 26:12;33:6,8,15,15,16, 19;34:11;35:1,2,10; 39:5;64:14;69:19;70:2, 6,10;71:6,10,19,23; 72:6;73:7,9,16;74:11, 16;75:22;76:6,10; 81:16;83:1,18;86:3,12; 95:15;101:21;102:3; 107:6;116:20;117:2, 10,10;123:1;131:21; 135:3;139:15,16; 141:19;142:10,20; 150:9,14,17;153:13,18, 22,23;154:1;155:1; 156:2,2,5;177:20; 182:9;183:6,17;188:5; 197:5;198:16;199:8,9; 202:11;203:19,21; 205:7;215:4,20;217:5; 218:22;219:1;223:22; 224:2machine-type (1) 96:23Maida (1) 168:6mail (1) 137:12mailed (1) 66:8main (1) 179:5maintain (1) 217:22makes (1) 68:3making (1) 58:17malfunctioned (1) 106:2management (1) 157:3manner (1) 5:3Manny (2) 226:17,20manufacture (1) 157:16manufactured (3)

15:21;16:9;118:15manufacturer (8) 24:18;78:20;79:1; 89:19;115:15;148:7; 156:16;157:19manufacturers' (1) 78:17many (17) 21:20;22:13;36:16; 39:5;41:13,17;51:6; 70:2,5;73:9;78:20; 120:1;139:2;143:9; 172:2;173:16;217:7March (1) 170:12mark (11) 108:19,22;163:17; 166:13;174:22,23; 175:9;176:1,8;177:7; 226:12marked (14) 17:10,16;29:15,19; 62:18;102:13,19; 103:11;105:3;109:5; 144:22;174:10,20; 177:14marker (1) 174:3marking (2) 163:16;177:11Marlin (1) 33:3married (3) 206:21;207:4,8Maryland (6) 31:8,12;32:22;50:17; 64:18;65:3Master's (1) 25:22match (1) 166:5matched (3) 93:14;94:6;165:12matching (1) 94:14material (2) 14:10;136:19materials (11) 20:11;22:21;134:17, 19;135:7,7;136:20; 169:19;170:1;171:8; 223:15mathematicians (1) 24:1matrix (1) 93:19matter (8) 136:3;141:17; 143:10;188:12;193:16, 20;208:22;219:2matters (1) 193:18max (2)

129:2,2maximum (7) 108:2;110:22,23,23; 116:17;118:23;129:5may (36) 4:10,15,17;5:1;9:22, 22;11:11;46:4;47:5; 48:15;49:18;90:5; 93:22;101:13;103:9; 106:13;108:14;125:13; 133:22;135:8,19; 136:7;143:18;152:6; 153:13;158:4;159:14; 167:11;175:20;188:20; 190:9;191:5;194:14; 195:1;226:12,14Maybe (4) 42:17;126:1;143:8; 195:15mean (37) 19:15;53:5;68:10; 73:23;77:11,13,16; 85:10;97:2;105:23; 116:12;117:12;122:12; 124:23;136:14;138:11; 149:15;161:13,13,19; 169:5;178:7;188:1; 189:19;197:15,16,23; 198:15;201:14;204:10; 205:4;207:16;209:3, 10;224:16;227:22; 228:7meaning (4) 22:20;24:13;108:4; 117:22means (1) 195:19meant (1) 171:4mechanical (8) 91:5,7;108:12; 110:15;111:20;113:7; 119:1;133:3Medco (3) 111:14;113:8;119:4M-E-D-C-O (1) 111:14medium (1) 220:18meet (2) 150:23;224:3meeting (4) 64:18;65:3;137:15; 169:20Megamania (1) 143:22MegaNanza (1) 144:3Melton (1) 36:6mental (1) 61:10mention (1)


(9) line - mention



146:7mentioned (6) 53:12;73:4;119:15; 132:3;137:16;155:8mentioning (1) 208:7met (1) 9:11meter (5) 82:5,6,20;112:4; 120:8metering (1) 111:15meters (7) 93:19;108:12; 110:15;111:19,20; 113:8;119:1methods (1) 84:2middle (2) 119:17;122:20might (3) 126:22;159:11; 200:22mind (1) 178:7minder (3) 158:17;168:2,4M-I-N-D-E-R (1) 168:4mine (1) 197:23minute (4) 38:4;69:11;72:11; 158:12minutes (3) 128:14;158:4;170:18miss (5) 160:9,10;177:1,4,12missed (2) 52:22;196:11misses (1) 160:8Missouri (4) 31:8,11;32:2,4mistaken (1) 27:21misunderstood (3) 42:17;93:22;189:15mode (1) 162:6momentarily (1) 102:6money (10) 108:6;120:3,4,20; 121:10;157:2;174:19; 210:8;216:7,8moneys (1) 82:14Monkey (3) 110:12;111:18;112:9Montgomery (1) 67:5

month (2) 11:7;64:1more (14) 21:23;41:22;56:16; 63:21;94:23;142:22; 159:4;161:4;162:19; 197:18,19;201:11; 220:19;227:14morning (2) 9:19;125:17most (9) 15:6;91:7;100:6; 106:21;146:4;171:9; 173:9;176:11;217:17motion (1) 228:1motor (1) 123:1move (1) 102:13multiple (7) 160:18;183:10; 184:9;185:15;195:17, 20,23myself (1) 133:10

N

name (27) 9:8,16;13:16,22; 26:21;27:1;65:8;68:23; 69:2,21;72:11,16,20; 77:16;79:17;107:19; 116:23;132:2;139:8; 141:6;144:1;155:2,6; 157:18;168:15;171:18; 219:2named (1) 132:9names (8) 33:16;69:4;72:5; 73:6;74:10,13,14; 132:11Nat (1) 227:2Native (10) 59:21;140:19;141:1; 148:13;150:8;151:6, 19;152:2;153:2,12nature (5) 67:12;95:16;131:13; 140:22;144:5necessarily (5) 138:17;148:11; 187:1;188:19;189:5necessary (6) 81:8;87:16,20;173:8; 216:6,7need (11) 4:15;83:13;86:18; 108:19;138:8,11; 192:11;225:16,22;

227:2;228:5needed (1) 227:10New (14) 11:22,23;39:13;47:1; 83:1;154:21,22;167:4, 11;168:10;188:9; 217:21;218:13,23newer (1) 138:2next (11) 66:15;83:23;107:22, 22;108:1;113:13; 189:22;213:23;214:10; 227:17;228:2night (5) 132:16,18,22;133:1; 214:14nine (3) 30:23;110:21;125:4nobody (1) 199:3none (4) 43:13;58:9;78:11,11nonoperational (3) 69:22;120:13;178:21nonresponsive (1) 191:6noon (1) 130:20normal (1) 10:5normally (1) 196:5North (1) 25:8notations (4) 61:10,11;82:1,1note (1) 106:3notebook (8) 70:17,19,21;71:1,4; 158:9,11;169:17noted (2) 69:20;223:18notes (27) 70:9;73:20;74:9,20; 100:14;101:19;104:22; 105:20;107:11,17; 108:18;109:10,20; 110:1,11;112:21; 115:19;116:6,10; 118:12;122:2;123:22; 124:3;125:10,18; 126:4,8notice (8) 17:1,2,11;18:11; 19:2;20:3;29:16;228:6null (1) 198:1Number (100) 17:10,16;26:6,19; 29:15,19;38:11;62:14,

18;78:23;83:15;84:12, 20,22;85:13,21;91:18; 92:3,5,11;95:11,14; 97:14;102:14,19; 103:7,11;104:20; 105:3;106:6;107:12; 109:13,14;110:13; 111:23,23;112:8,9,12, 20;113:1;115:18; 116:2,6;118:10,16; 119:8,9,10,11;120:7; 122:2;123:19;124:11, 16;125:7,8,8,9,10; 126:14,18,21,23;127:2, 3,10,11,14,15,16,17,18, 19,23;128:2,3,6,7,9,11; 134:15;144:22;159:12, 14;163:11;166:12; 174:10;177:1,3,12; 180:22;181:17;183:1, 2;211:15;216:16; 223:5,11,11numbered (2) 106:11;209:11numbers (55) 14:16,18;93:15,20; 94:7,15;97:15,16; 106:17,18;109:4; 114:7,16,17;125:14,18, 23;158:23;163:16,18, 22;164:5,9,13,15; 165:12;174:2,5,18; 175:9;176:1,14,21; 177:6;183:14,17,18; 184:17,21;194:16; 207:22,22;208:2,5,18, 23,23;210:9,16,22; 211:10;212:12,16; 220:17,18numeric (1) 194:19

O

oath (3) 189:10;203:11; 204:19Object (33) 28:3,6;37:5;49:16; 50:5;56:8,10;57:1,8; 60:13;76:23;88:13; 93:16;100:19;148:15; 149:22;151:9;153:7; 165:15;166:1;194:1, 21;197:20;200:4; 201:4;205:1;210:10; 211:13;214:19;217:14; 218:1,10;223:13objection (12) 19:6;20:3;22:3;53:7; 88:20;150:10;151:2, 22;153:4,15;190:14; 202:23

objections (4) 4:13,14;18:8;137:23observation (1) 76:20observations (7) 74:11;76:22;77:3,6; 99:2;112:20;116:9observe (2) 108:10;144:9observed (16) 73:16;74:16;99:8,19; 101:20;118:13;133:14; 140:4,14,18;142:15; 167:1,8,12,14;224:3obviously (1) 227:23occasion (5) 50:7;59:18;64:17; 154:7;156:13occasions (7) 31:17;55:8,10;56:6, 22;57:20;181:3occur (2) 172:19;210:15occurred (3) 108:5;172:23;205:4occurs (1) 172:6October (3) 11:9;32:19;49:5off (7) 19:10;83:7;84:1; 109:9;111:16;180:4; 225:15offer (1) 150:2offered (3) 4:17;37:3;134:1offering (5) 36:22;61:12;87:21; 149:11,18offhand (2) 72:7;73:8office (8) 11:22;63:1;64:8; 71:8;101:15;103:19; 104:12,16officer (19) 107:5,7;114:21; 115:5;129:16;131:21, 23;139:12,23;179:18; 181:1,7;182:22; 183:21;185:12;186:5; 196:19;198:21;200:13officers (8) 58:18;59:9;68:22; 69:16;89:16;107:2; 132:4;139:3often (2) 85:12;180:1Ohio (4) 31:9,17;33:23;34:3old (1)


(10) mentioned - old



193:23once (1) 199:20one (106) 21:23;22:15;26:20; 28:13;29:1;31:13,15, 20,22;34:8;42:2,4,4; 43:4;45:15;47:12;48:4, 23;50:7;60:1,3;63:10; 64:17;68:23;69:2,4; 72:7,12,13,23;73:1,3, 10,12;77:15;81:15; 84:9;86:13;90:5;92:7; 94:8,9;95:1,2,23,23; 96:3,4;99:14;103:2; 106:15;108:20,20; 110:11,18;111:5; 113:1,13;116:11,12,14; 120:2;125:6,19;131:1; 132:8;134:12;136:4; 139:6,7;140:1,8; 142:19;145:6;148:23; 150:21;154:2,7;155:8; 156:13,18;157:23; 159:4;160:21;161:4; 162:20;165:23;167:5; 172:9,10,12;180:22; 182:22;183:10;198:18; 200:13;201:11,22,22; 202:10;208:11;211:15; 215:6;216:16;220:18; 222:19one-page (1) 66:9ones (11) 12:7;56:11;75:1; 96:6;117:6;127:5; 148:20;164:4;185:18; 195:10;220:20only (36) 23:7;54:2;56:5,17, 21;57:5,13,19;63:3; 66:5;68:23;80:1;92:7; 95:2;101:14;103:17; 104:10,14;111:8; 112:11;121:1,4;129:5, 6;140:8;142:18;150:1; 151:15;153:21;161:21; 172:9,16;203:2;208:4, 23;220:2on-screen (1) 118:18open (3) 53:23;74:22;108:8Opened (2) 61:8;69:19operate (7) 22:19;151:7,15,20; 152:20,22;153:13operated (4) 93:1;141:1;169:14; 201:17operates (1)

154:23operation (5) 146:23;147:6; 224:13,20;225:8operational (20) 15:14;70:1;71:11,13; 78:13;79:3;82:4;91:20; 92:20;93:3;95:5,9; 96:17,18;98:6;111:10; 121:14;122:19;178:18; 179:3operations (1) 14:16operator (3) 89:20;115:15;130:13opinion (33) 27:9;61:16;77:7; 81:7;84:9;95:2;96:13, 15;98:10;120:13; 129:10;131:18;141:18; 150:2,6,15;151:11; 153:1,11,16;156:21; 158:14;161:17;162:13; 178:2;179:20;180:21; 181:19;182:9;183:5; 185:1;203:20;224:6opinions (14) 61:12,20,22;87:22; 134:21;139:10;141:16; 142:3;149:12,18; 171:11;178:12;181:18; 223:16opportunity (4) 36:23;218:8;225:19, 23opposed (1) 141:4opposing (1) 101:12option (1) 37:4options (1) 130:13oral (1) 207:4orally (2) 214:7,9oranges (1) 97:16order (8) 152:19;163:13; 164:1;187:1,21; 190:20;192:4;216:6organized (1) 11:20original (3) 104:21;107:13;222:9originally (1) 124:1Orleans (1) 11:22Orozco (2) 226:18,20

others (10) 12:10;29:9;60:5; 69:4;83:20,21,21; 99:15;132:12;226:13otherwise (3) 104:15;152:23; 205:10out (31) 31:18,21;53:11,19; 65:19;66:11;68:10,14; 107:22;113:13;122:8; 146:19;156:16;158:23; 172:2;173:6,7;177:7, 11,13;178:14;179:19; 182:19;190:16;192:23; 206:22;214:4,5; 216:10,12,14outcome (15) 96:8,11;97:10,21; 98:3,11;157:13; 180:18;181:15,21; 182:6;187:19;189:20; 190:1;192:16outset (1) 225:17outside (5) 78:6,8;112:3;123:14; 151:23over (9) 13:20;18:19;26:7; 40:20;180:16;186:3, 13;225:19;226:1overlook (5) 159:12,14,15;160:1; 163:11Owens (1) 33:7own (2) 10:19;168:13owner (4) 39:2;52:10,11; 130:14

P

packet (1) 66:12page (8) 30:20;32:1;36:10,11; 214:22;223:7,9;224:5paid (4) 114:2;118:19; 144:10;175:10paper (7) 37:2;145:23;146:10; 158:16;209:9;212:11; 215:6Paragraph (4) 220:11;221:3,18; 222:6paragraphs (4) 102:8;223:10,21,23paraphernalia (4)

14:15;146:11,20; 147:7Parenthesis (1) 221:3Park (1) 25:8parlor (2) 160:23;174:15part (11) 57:11;61:18;80:18, 19;84:20;119:12; 131:19;146:23;147:22; 180:14;202:16Parte (3) 138:4;170:11,13participate (1) 50:4participated (1) 49:12particular (9) 24:14,20;42:11;45:6; 93:8;107:8;111:18; 130:2;221:11parties (3) 4:7,22;18:14partner (8) 9:17;49:4;52:15,16, 23,23;53:4;171:19party (2) 4:18;5:3passed (1) 221:12Past (6) 96:16;122:10; 201:20,23;202:5;204:2patients (1) 51:11pattern (15) 93:14;94:7,14,18; 161:19,20,21;162:18; 163:23;164:8,22,23; 165:12;166:6,7patterns (8) 90:16,17,18,22; 159:5;161:9,13,15paused (1) 140:11pay (12) 83:10;118:18;120:3; 174:21;175:21,23; 180:4;220:15,15,23; 221:9,9paying (1) 175:12payoff (3) 36:23;94:11;110:14payoffs (1) 118:1PCs (1) 209:22PD (2) 31:16,16peanut (1)

174:4Pennsylvania (7) 29:2;31:18,19;34:8; 42:3;156:17;157:12people (7) 58:17;200:2,7; 213:17;214:15;217:23; 219:21per (3) 116:14,14;148:21percent (2) 28:1;58:6percentage (7) 58:4,7,10,15;59:1, 10;117:13perform (3) 15:3;86:7,10performed (1) 66:23perhaps (2) 140:19;172:13period (2) 18:21;50:22permanent (1) 51:9person (5) 162:17;165:9; 214:10,11,11personal (3) 209:23;210:3;212:7personnel (1) 14:6phase (2) 219:7,11phases (4) 146:12,16;221:21; 222:8phone (1) 38:15photograph (8) 108:14;109:12; 112:12;115:22;116:2; 119:7;124:10;128:11photographs (30) 22:4;61:2;76:5; 91:23;93:5,11;94:3; 95:22;96:10;98:14,23; 100:15,17;101:5; 102:1;103:22;105:10, 14;106:10,16;108:17, 20;112:8;119:7;122:1; 123:17,18;125:15,22; 126:15picture (5) 105:18;107:14; 122:15,21;215:7pictures (9) 75:6,8,11,18,21,22; 105:21;106:1;124:5Pinellas (3) 40:10;99:13;172:10place (2) 151:6;200:22


(11) once - place



placed (1) 199:12places (1) 173:9plan (1) 60:21plate (1) 94:8play (49) 15:7,13;79:3;82:20; 83:9;95:1,3;96:11; 98:11;108:2;110:20, 23;111:1;116:11,12,12, 12,13,13,14,17;118:23; 120:7;129:13;132:17; 140:2,5,7,8;142:19,19; 143:7,7;159:7;160:21; 162:7;197:6;199:14, 15;204:8,11;210:6,7; 213:18;217:23;222:2, 11;224:20;225:8played (51) 15:5;79:6;80:3;97:3, 22;98:4;114:21,23; 115:7,9,13;129:16; 132:15;133:11,13,14; 142:6,13,15;143:16,20; 148:1,5,13;149:4,8,13, 20;150:8;158:15; 162:1;167:2,6,8,15,21; 171:6;180:8,10,11,13; 187:2,4;188:23; 198:16;201:9;203:7; 208:20;209:2;212:4,6player (60) 38:13;82:7,19;83:10; 84:22;85:7,10,12; 89:13;90:3;91:8,19; 92:4,11;93:13;94:6,13; 95:1;96:3,21;97:11; 110:16;118:2,17; 119:3,20,23;120:9,16; 121:1,3,7,9,9;122:7; 129:2;130:3;159:11, 19,23;160:1,7,11,18, 22;164:23;176:20; 183:10;188:7,8,17; 189:2;196:8,9,9,16; 201:11;213:15,17; 220:22players (26) 36:22;92:12,13,15; 156:18,19;159:3; 183:10;184:9;185:15; 195:17,20,23;197:13; 198:5;199:13;200:20, 23;202:6,18;203:12, 23;204:22;205:8; 220:15;221:9player's (1) 81:23playing (63) 36:21;55:1;58:12,21;

89:16;111:23;118:3,5; 131:20;146:11,15; 174:15;176:9;181:2,7; 182:22;183:22;185:12; 186:5;187:13;193:1; 196:1,9,16,19,23; 197:1,2;198:5,19,21; 199:2,4,23;200:2,6,11, 13,20,23;201:11,14,15, 15,19;202:2,7,13,18; 203:13;204:1,22; 205:8;209:6,17; 211:11;212:11;217:13; 218:8;219:7,11; 221:21;222:8please (8) 9:9;107:18;108:23; 145:15;165:22;188:14; 191:5;201:22ploy (1) 89:19plug (6) 71:9;178:16,19,23; 179:3,8pm (1) 228:17point (5) 42:10;118:23;179:2, 13;214:5pointing (1) 214:4points (2) 93:13;94:5poker (14) 15:19,21;32:6;33:5, 15,20;34:1,2,10,23; 35:19;83:20;156:18; 157:2Police (5) 39:14;59:9;68:22; 106:18;107:2policy (10) 174:14;175:19; 176:4;211:19;219:3; 221:4,20,21;222:7,8poor (1) 75:16populated (1) 35:13portion (7) 48:20;89:18;119:17; 121:16,21;152:11; 205:21position (4) 66:1;96:20;97:9; 98:11possible (5) 164:16;174:13; 188:11;192:22;216:22Post (1) 213:22practical (1) 164:17

prayer (1) 10:1pre-1988 (1) 209:7predetermined (3) 93:14;94:6,14premises (1) 47:15preparation (1) 20:12prepare (2) 30:12;60:21prepared (3) 30:9;40:2;60:21preparing (1) 49:14pre-personal (1) 209:8presence (1) 131:6present (7) 57:6;68:19;71:18; 100:9;108:13;167:23; 183:12presentations (3) 26:15,16;134:11presented (1) 134:5presently (1) 63:3pressing (1) 82:21Pretend (2) 173:14;175:17pretty (4) 32:5;50:6;68:11; 168:22previous (1) 104:5previously (1) 209:21previously-designated (1) 162:18printed (3) 102:4;122:17;129:23prior (5) 49:23;137:2,17; 161:10;212:6private (3) 55:21;56:2;58:8privileged (1) 66:2prize (8) 57:5;100:9;174:9; 175:12;176:1;203:15; 204:23;219:23prizes (3) 82:9,14;210:7probability (1) 157:4Probably (7) 21:3;41:22;50:23; 58:6;75:15;172:4;

173:22problem (2) 216:15;228:7Procedure (1) 4:9proceed (1) 228:4proceeded (1) 181:4proceeding (1) 39:18proceedings (3) 48:21;152:12;205:22process (2) 63:7;103:4produce (1) 18:10produced (2) 19:21;22:5Professional (1) 62:23program (26) 84:15,20;85:5,6,6,7, 16,22,23;89:22;90:7,8, 11,12,14;181:4; 190:21;192:3,6,7; 196:7;203:3,4;224:21; 225:2,4programmer (2) 192:11,13programming (1) 44:1programs (2) 224:14,15progress (1) 99:9progressive (3) 199:8;200:1,7prohibited (1) 153:14prohibits (1) 147:13projected (1) 192:8property (1) 106:17prosecutions (1) 216:5prostitution (1) 14:17prove (3) 82:3;111:6;122:19provide (5) 51:3;54:8;100:19; 101:12;198:13provided (23) 4:19;5:4;51:11; 54:19;59:6;66:7;93:6, 12;94:2,3;98:15;99:1; 101:18;136:9,15; 137:9;139:17;145:7; 147:17;169:8,19; 171:1;223:2

provides (6) 161:7;196:7;197:9, 10;203:3,4providing (3) 58:11;100:23;139:11pseudo (3) 84:19;95:11;97:13public (2) 19:11,14published (3) 19:17,19;134:3punching (1) 83:19pure (1) 143:21purports (2) 17:11;102:15purpose (13) 4:18;83:6,17;84:3,3; 100:18;111:3;114:18; 119:22;121:1,6; 128:22;130:10pursuant (3) 4:8;17:1;45:19purview (1) 146:8push (2) 186:17,19put (9) 55:11;83:23;106:18; 117:23;125:16;133:1; 163:20;176:18;218:5puts (1) 120:7putting (1) 121:1pyramid (3) 55:4,14;58:13

Q

qualified (5) 40:16;41:1,15,18; 43:10quantity (1) 108:2Quarters (3) 31:23;36:14;40:6quite (4) 12:11;157:21; 161:12;195:13

R

Racing (1) 170:5raising (1) 157:3random (7) 84:11,19,22;85:13, 20;95:11,14randomly (2) 95:8,12


(12) placed - randomly



rather (3) 16:3;18:15;108:13ratios (1) 94:11reaching (3) 134:20;171:11; 223:16react (2) 156:19;196:6read (14) 48:18,20;110:10; 113:15;145:4,14; 152:8,11;171:7; 204:16;205:21;223:22; 225:19;226:1reader (2) 38:8,9reading (1) 5:9REAGAN (88) 10:3;17:7,14;18:13; 19:16,23;20:8;28:3,6; 37:5;49:16;50:5;53:7; 56:8;57:1,8;60:13; 62:2,8;64:4,16;65:4,11, 16;66:3,17;68:16,21; 73:21;74:3;75:9;76:3, 23;88:13;93:16; 100:16;101:10;102:10; 103:8;104:4,11; 105:15;107:1;125:12; 126:13;130:22;134:16; 137:11,21;138:21; 139:17,22;148:15; 149:22;150:10;151:2, 9,22;153:4,9,15; 165:15;166:1;169:20; 190:14;191:8,16; 194:1,21;197:20; 200:4;201:4;202:23; 205:1,16;210:10; 211:13;214:19;217:14; 218:1,10;222:19,22; 223:18,19;224:7; 225:14;226:22Reagan's (2) 71:8;135:8real (11) 131:14;160:15; 174:1,17;187:22; 206:8;209:4;210:17, 23;214:2,16reality (1) 132:16realize (1) 225:20really (8) 22:1;27:1;43:7;48:3; 63:20;76:22;127:5; 198:7reason (7) 121:4;198:7,10; 202:16,17;206:8;

208:11reasons (2) 185:7;202:12recall (41) 13:17,22;16:17;19:5; 26:9;27:1;32:5;36:17; 37:14;41:4,16;43:7; 47:11;50:6,11;59:4,17; 60:4,9,10,16,18;72:5; 74:2;78:22;93:7;96:1, 2,5;98:17;99:16;114:6; 127:5;131:7;132:5,11; 134:10;139:8;145:5; 172:9,17recalling (2) 26:22;138:8receive (5) 54:5;82:9;136:21; 137:12,14received (11) 17:2,4,13;41:18; 136:4,19;137:1,3,5,7, 18receives (1) 159:4receiving (1) 68:14receptacles (1) 82:2receptor (1) 214:10recess (6) 62:10;101:8;109:1; 131:2;158:6;205:23recognize (1) 121:2recognized (2) 23:8;155:21recognizes (1) 120:6recollection (1) 47:6Reconvene (1) 130:23record (22) 15:8;19:10;48:7,15; 73:15;100:18;101:11; 102:13;108:21;109:20; 110:1,11;112:21; 116:10;123:22;124:3; 125:13;126:2;131:16; 137:21;138:10;225:15recorded (1) 93:20recording (1) 82:6records (7) 14:18;19:11,14; 54:15,16,17,20red (2) 70:18;71:1Redd (2) 39:3,3

reel (1) 98:5reels (42) 16:19;61:18;81:16; 89:2,6;91:2,5,6;94:21; 96:6;97:7,12,20;98:9, 12;118:15;119:18,19; 131:15;143:9;180:1; 181:23;182:1,3,7,11, 14,16;183:1,3,19; 184:3,7;185:13,15; 192:17;193:15;194:6, 13;195:3,8;218:21refer (16) 9:15;26:11,16;27:6; 74:9;108:17,18; 109:12,13;116:5; 118:12;124:12,19; 126:3;176:21;209:7reference (2) 105:20;115:19referenced (2) 136:18;223:3references (1) 129:7referred (6) 85:12;106:6;107:2; 109:10;136:6;169:18referring (2) 108:21;114:3refers (2) 113:19;115:23reflective (1) 22:23refute (1) 198:7refuting (1) 198:11regarding (4) 56:6,22;57:20;134:9regardless (3) 5:5;165:3,13regular (2) 199:23;209:3regulate (1) 46:5regulated (3) 154:12;156:3;169:5regulatory (3) 24:17;46:9;47:4reimbursed (1) 82:23related (1) 77:22Relative (5) 141:19;180:7,9,10, 13relevance (2) 60:14;151:3relevancy (1) 151:23relevant (2) 53:8;153:5

relied (2) 134:20;223:14rely (2) 96:14;171:10remaining (2) 31:7,9remember (27) 12:11;22:1,9;41:10; 42:6;48:1;56:16;58:2; 64:2,20;72:20;79:14, 17;112:18;113:14; 136:18;141:6;154:8, 10;155:6;157:21; 164:12,15;168:9; 174:1,17;208:6remove (1) 82:21removed (7) 82:23;122:11; 215:11,13,15,22;216:1repeating (1) 133:10replication (1) 162:11report (8) 12:22;13:13;37:12; 47:19;60:22;102:16; 104:1,3reported (2) 14:6;141:9Reporter (7) 4:11;10:8;48:19; 152:10;165:22;201:21; 205:20reports (5) 14:10;40:2,3;49:15; 104:6represent (4) 9:17;113:23;129:9; 171:19representation (2) 162:12,15representative (2) 63:18;227:19represented (3) 114:10;220:16;221:1representing (2) 4:6,21reputation (2) 168:18,23request (1) 18:11requested (4) 19:3;48:20;152:11; 205:21required (2) 94:23;210:17resembled (1) 81:20reservation (7) 40:13;45:17;47:14; 151:14;152:16,21; 172:13

reservations (2) 46:6;150:15reserved (1) 4:16respect (1) 87:2response (3) 18:10;19:22;129:18rest (1) 32:13retire (1) 11:7Retired (11) 10:17,18;11:4;13:4; 41:19;46:1,12,15,20; 49:8;79:23retrieve (2) 74:5;82:8return (1) 104:7returned (1) 104:3review (2) 30:15;102:16reviewed (12) 17:19;19:5,8;20:12; 22:4;29:22;62:21; 102:22;103:14;105:6; 145:2,16reward (2) 94:13;144:19Rich (2) 115:17;155:12R-I-C-H (1) 113:3Right (68) 9:13;13:5;16:15; 21:10,13,16;26:22; 27:13,15;29:5,12; 32:14;35:6;36:12;37:7; 42:21;45:20;56:17; 58:3;67:18;72:17;74:4; 77:2;95:6;101:3;102:4; 103:5;104:19;110:9, 17;111:2,4;113:9; 116:3;119:4;123:4; 127:9;133:20;135:23; 137:6;150:18;154:15; 170:22;173:15;174:7, 21;175:5;177:19; 181:17;182:17;184:11, 15;185:9;186:1,11; 187:8;195:21;198:20, 22;200:19,23;206:13, 21;209:8,22;218:19; 221:2;225:21right-hand (1) 128:15Risk (1) 134:4rod (1) 122:8role (2)


(13) rather - role



38:8;98:20room (1) 88:18roughly (3) 172:21;173:1;212:8row (1) 163:23rows (2) 114:12,13Rule (1) 29:17Rules (2) 4:8;174:14ruling (1) 4:16run (1) 16:6

S

SAITH (1) 228:20salary (1) 51:15same (35) 5:6;10:23;16:6; 33:10,10,19;34:10,13; 35:12,18;53:15,17; 83:2,17;84:2,3;92:14; 95:16;108:18;123:23; 124:2;138:14;139:16, 19;144:5;148:5; 153:15;160:15;163:21; 183:9;194:8;196:1,1; 201:14;207:16Saturday (1) 214:13saw (19) 17:13;70:23;84:5; 92:8;95:21;96:10; 129:15;139:16;143:18; 178:13;186:5,8,9; 188:5;198:18,21; 206:4;215:5,21saying (16) 152:17;181:12; 187:18,21;188:21; 201:13,18;202:13; 206:16;210:2,5,13,14, 15,20;216:20schedule (1) 71:3scheme (5) 219:7,11,15;220:14; 221:7schemes (5) 55:4,15;58:13; 221:22;222:8schools (5) 55:6,11;58:11,20; 59:2science (1) 25:22

scope (1) 151:23screen (14) 38:10;82:21;89:18; 90:12,13;93:19; 121:17,22;142:2; 184:18;192:8,9; 199:20;225:5Scrutinize (2) 178:8,9se (1) 148:22second (8) 11:23;18:18;64:21; 72:21;110:10;186:4; 215:16;221:19seconds (4) 143:8,11,11,12secretary (2) 50:20;51:12section (1) 30:23security (2) 54:9;58:5seeing (1) 88:17seeking (1) 64:8seems (1) 122:21seized (1) 98:22select (1) 106:19selects (1) 97:14sell (3) 217:17;218:3,4sends (1) 192:23sent (4) 22:21;89:15;206:22; 227:7sentence (1) 221:19sequence (2) 177:8,12serial (1) 92:5series (2) 105:9;199:9Sertell (3) 9:15;104:4;143:15Sertell's (1) 104:1serve (2) 83:17;228:10server (25) 71:15,16,17;78:8; 84:23;85:8;86:5;179:5; 191:23;192:3,4,23; 193:8;196:1,6,7,13; 197:6,9;198:15,16;

199:10;203:2,4;204:8servers (6) 72:3;77:18;86:16,17; 87:15,23Service (2) 107:22;113:11services (7) 51:2,11;54:9;62:23; 64:8;102:15;144:11set (4) 123:18;129:3,6; 224:4seven (4) 36:10;125:1;143:8, 11Sevens (8) 107:20;109:11,17; 118:11,14;124:2; 125:5;126:23Seventeen (1) 112:10several (6) 12:5;15:8;83:16; 99:8;129:17;181:2shall (1) 48:11sharking (3) 14:18;28:16;31:5short (1) 67:11shortly (1) 67:4show (9) 17:9;29:14;147:15; 196:22;199:1;200:16, 17,19,22showed (4) 89:17;200:12,22; 201:8showing (1) 68:13shown (1) 78:9shows (2) 83:15;177:6Si (1) 39:3sic (1) 72:8side (8) 83:22;110:17;111:3; 113:9;119:4;122:15; 128:16;156:12sign (2) 67:22;68:3signed (2) 18:22;63:11significance (1) 173:6signing (1) 5:9silver (1) 122:15

similar (1) 82:2singing (1) 10:1Sisson (3) 69:5,10,16sit (1) 110:6site (4) 66:20;71:18;72:3; 77:19sites (1) 150:8sitting (3) 197:15;213:23; 214:10six (6) 11:17;132:4,6; 223:21,23;224:5size (2) 114:9;141:17skill (1) 156:23slave (1) 179:4sleep (1) 91:9sleeping (3) 91:12,16;163:5slips (2) 221:20;222:7Slot (59) 16:18;24:19;33:5,15, 16,19;34:10;35:1,2; 81:17;89:3;94:20; 96:23;97:3,7,20;98:5; 116:20;117:2,9,10,19; 118:2,7,17;119:3,20, 21,23;120:10;132:15, 19;133:5;142:10,20, 22;143:5,12;150:9,17; 153:13,18;154:1; 156:2,5;158:13;163:1; 180:10,12;181:22; 182:9;185:23;187:20; 199:23;203:19,20; 217:5;218:22;219:1slots (1) 183:6smart (5) 174:1,17;175:15,16; 176:8sneezed (1) 177:2sneezing (1) 177:4social (1) 53:4Software (35) 24:7;44:3,9,13,22; 80:15;81:5,11;86:17, 19;87:11,15,22;90:9, 11;142:8;190:4,18,18;

191:15,19;199:18; 200:3;204:6,8,13,16, 20,21;205:7;224:16, 22;225:2,4,7sold (1) 159:3sole (1) 121:6solve (1) 84:3somebody (5) 31:2;186:10;204:5, 15;218:13someone (3) 80:23;164:14;213:23SOMERVILLE (8) 102:7;171:16,18; 191:10;205:14;206:2; 222:15;228:11sometimes (3) 48:8;176:16,17somewhere (2) 67:13;85:15Sonny (5) 64:4;65:16;66:2; 68:8,21sorry (25) 28:5;31:12,19;42:19; 52:22;57:18;72:15,19; 75:15;82:10;85:4; 89:11;91:10;110:16; 114:5;116:14;118:20; 125:8;132:23;134:2; 146:4;155:11;178:6; 181:13;187:14sort (1) 216:6sound (2) 56:7;214:7sounds (2) 144:1;155:17source (7) 44:15,17;81:6,11; 87:15,22;142:8South (2) 39:14;56:20Southwest (1) 32:12speak (6) 9:3;63:18;117:15; 139:3;165:23;201:22speakers (1) 122:18special (4) 14:4;26:15,16; 221:12specialties (1) 28:13specific (1) 211:7specifically (2) 98:17;147:15specified (1)


(14) room - specified



49:21speed (1) 142:14spell (1) 65:8spelling (1) 65:19spells (1) 66:11Spencer (2) 9:17;227:12spin (1) 113:3spinning (8) 97:11;98:12;193:15; 194:6,13;195:3,8; 218:21spiral (2) 70:18;71:1spoke (1) 102:17sponsor (1) 217:12sporadic (1) 53:22sports (1) 14:17squares (2) 173:17,21squirrel (1) 146:19staff (1) 43:21stairs (1) 21:3stand (1) 203:2standard (1) 23:15standpoint (3) 34:17;82:19;142:18start (4) 119:2;186:19; 187:13;226:21started (1) 10:4starting (2) 11:14;67:2starts (4) 30:20;36:10;189:11, 19state (53) 9:8;12:21;18:9,16; 19:6;22:6;34:4;35:15; 37:22;40:11,17;43:11; 47:18;55:21;63:4,19; 64:7;65:11,23;87:6; 93:6,12;94:3,4;98:15; 99:1;100:7;103:18; 109:21;133:23;135:12, 16;136:8;138:3,4; 145:8;151:18;152:14, 21;156:7;157:11;

161:2,3;169:23; 170:12,13;213:4,6; 217:13,21,23;222:20; 223:2stated (4) 76:8;129:8;147:16; 214:7statement (1) 206:19state-run (1) 217:10States (15) 25:3;31:1;40:18; 60:8,18;99:17;146:4; 149:5,14,21;154:13,18; 217:7,11,17State's (3) 20:2;22:3;29:17stating (1) 215:21station (4) 84:23;85:7,10;92:11stationed (1) 11:21stations (1) 85:12Statisticians (1) 24:9status (1) 101:4Statute (11) 4:19;5:4;20:20;21:6, 11,15,17;171:1,3; 176:3;213:7statutes (3) 12:6;145:7;213:4stick (1) 120:5sticker (1) 163:20stickers (1) 125:21still (9) 49:11;51:22;53:9; 54:8;55:20;90:6;143:6; 149:1;167:20stipulated (3) 4:5,20;5:7STIPULATIONS (4) 4:3;10:5,7;225:18Stonegate (1) 10:14stop (6) 98:12;108:16;113:7; 119:2;179:23;181:6stopped (1) 51:19stopping (1) 131:15stored (1) 90:22straight (2) 175:11;176:2

structure (1) 227:21stuff (2) 171:21;216:4styled (1) 223:6subject (1) 65:17submit (1) 60:22submitted (2) 12:20;144:13subpoenaed (2) 39:15;101:1sucks (2) 51:16,18Supervisory (1) 14:4support (1) 185:21supported (1) 180:14supposed (6) 60:3;113:21,23; 129:9;171:5;225:6supposedly (1) 183:15supreme (3) 170:5,10,12sure (28) 19:13;20:22;25:17; 26:4,5;30:5;32:6;33:4; 43:8;50:7;62:6;64:22; 68:10;74:3;98:16; 120:2;124:6,13; 130:22;134:14;136:17; 146:5;153:9;183:21; 188:2;191:21;213:19; 217:8Surely (1) 19:18surplus (1) 109:21suspect (1) 175:20suspend (1) 173:23swear (1) 99:18sweepstakes (4) 36:2,3;38:3,15sweepstakes-type (1) 38:5switch (12) 82:3,16,18;83:2,3,4, 5,7;84:6;110:19;111:6, 13sworn (8) 9:2;189:10;194:22; 197:4;203:10,12; 205:6;217:20symbols (9) 81:16;97:18;182:2,3,

7,12;183:2;184:3; 185:14system (4) 13:14;84:21;111:15; 121:2

T

Tab (2) 223:7,8table (2) 156:18;176:17tag (2) 92:5;106:5talk (4) 58:16;73:21;191:4; 208:9talked (3) 40:5;207:23;227:13talking (23) 29:4;30:18;69:13; 88:16,17;90:8,19; 125:13;126:14;133:19; 138:14,15;148:18; 159:20;165:5,7; 184:19;188:3;191:11; 197:16;209:14,18; 214:17tall (1) 69:7tapped (1) 129:17technician (2) 130:6,17technicians (2) 14:8,13telephone (1) 64:16telling (14) 138:7;174:8;189:6; 193:19;201:3,7;207:3; 208:3;209:10;212:9; 213:8;214:1,2;222:5tells (2) 192:9;202:6ten (1) 110:22ten-button (1) 107:21ten-minute (2) 62:5,9Tennessee (3) 31:19;35:3;99:17tenure (3) 12:14;172:20;173:1term (4) 117:16;158:18; 168:1;221:18terminal (17) 189:3;191:23; 193:11;195:20;196:17, 20;198:6,15;200:13; 203:8;217:1,3,9;218:5,

9;219:6,10terminals (13) 111:13;193:1,8; 196:1,12;200:18; 201:9;203:14;217:6, 12,18,22;218:20terms (1) 200:9test (1) 23:5tested (3) 44:12,15,17testified (40) 9:4;12:23;23:8; 31:14;33:12;35:4;36:1, 7;37:16;39:21;40:20; 41:1,14;43:5,9,14;44:9, 18;45:5;47:12;50:12; 56:5,15,22;57:13,15, 20,23;58:1;87:10; 104:22;131:5;133:16; 145:8;152:1,3;156:11; 180:17;198:2,6testify (8) 37:18,20;47:8,18; 54:18;55:5;57:5;134:8testifying (2) 59:12;133:19testimonies (2) 30:19;42:22testimony (42) 27:18;28:18;32:8,21; 35:21;39:11,18,22; 49:11,14,19;50:1; 56:19;59:5;74:8;82:11; 87:9;134:1,10;137:2; 142:11,23;166:4; 169:13;172:7;180:5; 182:21;187:9;189:1, 10;194:23;196:12; 197:5;202:21;203:10, 12,17,23;205:6; 208:15;217:20;223:3testing (1) 133:2Testlabs (1) 155:16Texas (13) 31:20;35:14,15;42:5; 47:13;48:22;60:3,6,12; 79:12;140:19;141:2; 172:13Theoretically (2) 22:20;117:7therefore (1) 129:11thereon (4) 81:16;96:7;118:16; 182:12third (2) 11:23;72:22though (2) 104:3;228:9


(15) speed - though



thought (6) 9:14;70:23;188:2; 214:6;227:7,9thousand (1) 15:8Thousands (2) 97:5;135:2three (29) 13:3;14:7,8;31:11, 18;41:5;51:9;55:8,9; 56:6,22;57:13,20; 67:14,15,17;69:16; 72:10,14,18;73:2,3,4, 10;106:22;110:20; 116:13;119:4;183:2ticket (12) 38:10,11,12,13; 83:14;110:14;113:6; 118:18;122:6;218:5; 220:1,3tickets (8) 38:9;82:7,12;83:15; 217:17;218:3;221:19; 222:6times (8) 15:8;40:17,21;41:13, 17;97:5;129:17;172:6Tinkin (2) 113:2;115:17title (2) 14:2;34:13titled (2) 36:5;169:23titles (2) 16:4,20today (6) 17:1;30:4;88:11; 110:6;140:3;223:21together (4) 98:22;134:21;197:7; 201:10told (35) 38:20;52:21;56:4,19; 58:19;66:6;67:6;73:11; 76:14;77:10,17;79:11; 80:8;81:2;86:15; 105:17;111:17;115:5; 128:13;132:8;133:8; 139:12,21;140:3,13,17; 143:15;145:19;147:20; 154:11;158:12;163:4; 170:23;199:19;218:14took (7) 75:8,21,22;101:19; 105:14;186:10;216:14top (3) 32:1;89:17;215:6topics (2) 59:3;228:12total (4) 27:1;73:11;118:20; 173:16totally (1)

196:11touch (7) 89:21;90:1;115:2; 186:22;188:8,17,20touched (11) 115:7;171:22;181:2, 8;182:23;183:22; 185:12;186:6;187:3,5; 188:6touches (1) 189:2touching (7) 171:21;181:13,14; 187:18;188:1;189:12, 23track (1) 216:13tracking (1) 120:16traditional (3) 16:19;117:10;176:13transcript (2) 225:20;226:1transmitted (1) 103:22transmitting (1) 134:16Transportation (1) 12:9trash (1) 108:4tray (6) 108:3,7;110:13; 119:2,13,16treasurer (1) 52:21treatment (1) 51:4Tressler (1) 226:12trial (3) 5:2;37:18;47:14tribe (1) 141:7tribes (2) 151:19;153:2tried (1) 179:13true (17) 36:21;37:11;56:23; 57:21;103:19,20; 105:12;131:13;157:2; 160:14;176:11;188:5; 198:17;208:2;210:17, 23;211:10truth (3) 9:3,4,4try (5) 71:12;86:7;171:20; 179:2;227:18trying (10) 39:6;63:9;81:20; 126:7;157:20;172:1;

173:5,7;182:19;191:9turn (5) 30:20;71:22;97:15; 177:15;223:7turned (1) 111:9Twenty-five (2) 173:18,19Twenty-six (1) 195:14two (49) 9:15;14:9;29:2; 31:12,17,18;33:11; 34:7;45:11,13;46:15, 17,17,23;47:9;49:12, 20,22;50:3,10;59:8,9; 60:5,17;63:21;80:9; 82:1;83:22;108:1; 110:17,22;111:2,13,14; 112:3;113:8;116:12, 18;118:22;122:14,15; 124:21,22;140:20; 151:1;159:20;172:16; 181:18;183:1two-and-a-half (3) 22:10;63:21;137:16two-year (4) 18:20;63:6;100:22; 102:16type (13) 15:2;23:20;24:20; 49:21;70:20;76:19; 100:4;147:9;148:2; 150:14;192:10;219:19; 225:5types (12) 12:2;14:11;15:17; 16:4,16;46:6;50:3,9; 106:23;149:12,15,19

U

UC (3) 131:20,21,23under (11) 47:18;50:10;105:15; 144:16;145:22;151:1, 7;189:10;203:11; 204:19;206:11undercover (12) 89:16;107:5,7; 114:20;115:4;129:16; 139:3,12,22;179:17; 226:6,16unemployment (1) 32:11Unfortunately (1) 88:11unique (3) 91:18;92:3,10unit (4) 12:17;13:11,12; 179:4

United (7) 25:3;31:1;149:5,14, 20;154:13,18units (1) 82:20universe (1) 212:2unknown (1) 111:3unlawful (3) 220:14,22;221:7Unless (8) 27:21;161:13; 163:15;176:3,4;211:6; 213:7;214:7up (19) 21:3;25:16;31:23; 36:14;40:6,22;53:23; 61:8;83:23;97:15; 98:12;108:8;174:9,19; 175:19;190:11,12; 195:23;213:22upon (10) 84:17,19;98:11; 134:20;178:12;181:19; 182:8,20;183:4;184:23upper (2) 121:16,21upstairs (1) 138:20use (12) 65:1;82:8;130:6; 158:18,19;163:21; 174:3;182:14,16; 226:5,9,14used (18) 4:18;5:3;61:18;69:2; 82:13;120:14;122:9; 146:11,15,20;147:6; 159:1;219:6,10; 221:20;222:1,7,11uses (1) 217:22using (1) 94:20Usual (2) 10:7;225:17usually (3) 111:15;123:1;160:20

V

vague (1) 88:14Valerie (2) 52:12;65:5value (3) 121:10;220:16,23varied (1) 51:8varies (1) 148:7various (1)

196:12vegetables (1) 16:22Velvet (16) 72:9,13,14,18,21,23; 73:3,4;107:20;109:11, 17;118:11,14;124:1; 125:4;126:23Velvets (1) 73:10verbally (1) 161:8verified (3) 164:22;165:2;166:8verify (4) 84:9;164:3;165:11; 166:11versus (6) 31:2;34:5;35:15; 37:23;170:4,9vertical (4) 94:18;161:16;166:7; 175:4verticals (1) 161:14VictoryLand (2) 138:5;227:13video (73) 14:22;15:3,12,15,17; 22:5;28:17,19,22; 31:10;32:3;33:2,5,18; 37:8;38:10,21,23;61:1; 76:9;89:15;91:6,22; 92:17;93:5,11;94:2; 95:22;96:10;98:14,16, 23;115:6,8;121:17,22; 129:15;135:4,5; 142:12,15;156:15; 162:12;179:18;180:22, 23;181:8,13;183:1; 186:4,14;193:13; 196:15;199:2;200:12, 17,21,22;201:8,9; 204:4;217:1,4,6,7,9,12, 18,22;218:5,9,20;219:5videos (4) 139:17;188:6; 196:16;198:18videotape (3) 131:20;186:8,10videotaped (1) 75:4violation (1) 211:18violations (1) 12:3Virginia (2) 10:15;55:22visible (1) 130:3visit (1) 169:20visited (5)


(16) thought - visited



60:11;148:20,23; 150:3;195:10visits (2) 60:17;66:20visual (1) 98:21vita (7) 10:9;29:10;56:12,15; 57:23;133:19;134:13VLT (1) 216:23void (1) 198:1

W

Wac (1) 34:5wait (2) 48:11;74:19waived (2) 5:1,10waiving (1) 5:5Wales (1) 39:14Walsh (1) 171:19warehouse (3) 68:7;102:2;109:21Washington (2) 12:18;25:23watching (1) 193:13way (15) 36:19;127:4;133:2; 139:18;140:8;142:5; 147:9;163:15,19; 169:13;171:5;192:18; 196:6;217:12;220:2ways (2) 140:5,7wedding (1) 207:12week (3) 88:19;227:18;228:2weeks (3) 22:11;63:22;137:16well-versed (1) 152:4weren't (11) 27:22;77:18;78:9; 96:18;101:1;184:9; 185:15;186:7;195:16, 19;221:11what's (5) 26:21;90:13;119:22; 155:2;168:21whenever (2) 59:19;62:6Whereupon (17) 17:15;29:18;48:19; 62:10,17;101:8;

102:18;103:10;105:2; 109:1,3;131:2;144:21; 152:10;158:6;205:20, 23whole (2) 9:3;200:22Who's (3) 70:15;204:5;209:15WILLIAM (6) 4:7,23;9:1,10;17:12; 228:15Williams (2) 155:3,5Williamson (2) 155:7,12win (8) 113:3;118:19; 163:13;164:1;165:13, 20;166:9;180:2winner (5) 38:12;118:8;159:6; 162:20,22winning (11) 16:4;90:20,21;92:11; 108:5;159:15;160:1; 161:9;164:8,23;220:20wins (3) 112:1;203:14;206:13wires (1) 111:15wiring (1) 130:6withdraw (2) 176:10;212:4within (9) 27:9;78:1,3;85:16; 146:6,7;221:14;222:2, 12without (8) 4:12;71:15;81:10; 210:16;211:12,17; 212:6,11witness (30) 5:8,10;9:2;12:23; 17:19;19:4,9;23:9,10; 28:5;29:22;41:1,14,18, 19;43:5,10;59:12; 61:13;62:21;87:6; 101:16;102:22;103:14; 105:6;145:2,16;194:2; 201:5;227:19witnesses (2) 226:4,9witnesses' (1) 104:5won (3) 83:15;93:20;162:17word (3) 72:21,22;207:15words (1) 211:5work (6) 12:15;25:19;58:4,7,

10;226:23worked (5) 11:14;13:6;14:3,12; 95:17working (3) 11:19;15:1;32:15works (1) 193:5world (3) 154:17,19,20write (1) 47:19writing (4) 14:10;45:3;113:15; 206:17written (8) 26:19;27:2;44:22; 101:14;103:17;104:18; 206:19;207:1wrong (1) 47:5wrote (3) 12:22;71:5;74:14Wynn (1) 227:2

Y

y'all (6) 68:10;227:2,10,21, 23;228:4y'all's (1) 227:20year (1) 48:1years (9) 11:14,17;12:14;13:2; 41:6,8;148:6;193:23; 195:12yell (1) 165:10yelling (2) 214:2,15yesterday (45) 17:3,4,5,13,22;18:4, 5;19:6;22:3;59:14; 67:1;74:12;75:18;76:7, 11,17;78:12;80:16; 84:6;88:18,22;89:10; 90:23;91:3,18;92:19; 93:10;94:2;96:9; 100:15;101:20;102:2, 9;105:1,11;106:11,20; 109:18,22;132:4; 134:22;138:1;139:4, 15;177:20York (4) 11:23;217:21; 218:13,23you-all (1) 19:3

Z

zebra (1) 65:9

1

1 (10) 17:10,16;106:6; 124:16;125:7,9,10; 126:18;170:13;223:111:30 (3) 18:6;67:7;110:710 (3) 126:12,14,18100 (1) 113:1211 (5) 49:7;118:21;126:19; 214:22;215:112 (3) 31:14;126:21;127:1129 (1) 124:1413 (3) 127:2,3,713-A-12-20 (2) 170:14,1714 (4) 12:14;13:2;127:3,715 (7) 110:21;127:3,8; 128:11,16;148:6; 212:1916 (5) 127:4,8;129:3,5,617 (4) 49:5;112:11;127:10, 1317025 (2) 23:12,1818 (5) 112:13;127:12,13; 226:7,1719 (3) 63:15;112:15;127:131933 (1) 11:11194 (1) 29:71968 (1) 11:151975 (1) 14:131984 (5) 32:22;33:8,21;35:4,51985 (1) 33:231987 (2) 46:9;79:201988 (12) 11:3;14:13;32:19;

46:9;49:5;79:20; 172:21;173:2;195:14; 209:21;210:1;212:81989 (2) 34:8;56:31993 (1) 35:221996 (1) 36:81998 (1) 57:191999 (3) 43:4,6;57:1919th (1) 63:17

2

2 (10) 29:15,19;112:9,12, 20;127:11,14;223:5,7,82:30 (2) 67:8,192:48 (1) 228:1720 (11) 11:14;101:13; 107:23;110:21;118:21; 119:9,10,11;127:15,17; 148:62000 (4) 51:1,20;53:12,202003 (10) 41:15;133:22,22; 148:1,9,14;149:5,9,14, 212007 (1) 170:62009 (1) 170:112010 (1) 226:72013 (1) 170:132014 (4) 63:15;101:14;103:9; 170:1420th (3) 103:9;135:8;136:721 (4) 122:3,4;127:18,2022 (2) 127:21,2223 (5) 116:2,5;128:1,3,324 (1) 128:325 (8) 113:12;128:3;172:4, 23;173:21;223:7,10; 224:526 (4) 29:17;116:4,5;128:4


(17) visits - 26



265 (2) 40:16,2027 (1) 128:6275 (2) 40:22;43:1428 (3) 109:4;128:8;226:728th (2) 11:9;226:1829 (5) 144:22;220:10,11, 11;226:7294 (4) 29:1,8,9;42:429th (1) 226:19

3

3 (8) 62:14,18;113:1; 115:18;116:6;128:2,7, 93:30 (1) 110:830 (4) 172:4,23;195:11; 225:2233 (1) 40:18

4

4 (11) 102:14,19;118:10, 13;119:8;122:2; 123:19;126:23;127:16, 19,234:00 (2) 67:16,1740 (2) 107:23;118:22400-something (1) 33:15

5

5 (7) 103:7,11;134:15; 136:7;137:5;221:18; 222:650 (1) 113:12

6

6 (7) 104:20;105:3; 107:12;220:11;221:3, 3;223:1160 (3) 58:6;107:23;118:22

60-day (1) 18:2367 (1) 25:17682 (1) 32:126th (1) 11:11

7

7 (4) 109:4;124:11;125:2; 126:1170s (1) 27:375 (1) 14:1478 (3) 14:14,22;15:1679 (1) 26:5

8

8 (4) 124:18;125:1,2; 126:1180 (2) 33:12;42:20803 (1) 10:1482 (1) 193:2384 (1) 27:486 (3) 33:12;42:19,2087 (1) 47:588 (3) 47:5;56:5,2189 (1) 134:13

9

9 (5) 109:15;125:3,8; 126:12,189:56 (1) 62:390 (1) 28:190s (1) 57:1591 (1) 50:2392 (1) 42:593 (1) 42:596 (1)

42:599 (3) 42:6;56:5,21


(18) 265 - 99

Exhibit C

Exhibit D

Exhibit E

Exhibit F

Exhibit G

Exhibit H

Documents

)doc.pdf · AlaFile E-Notice To: JOHN M. BOLTON III [email protected] 46-CV-2013-900031.00 Judge: WILLIAM A. SHASHY NOTICE OF ELECTRONIC FILING IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MACON