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THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES3
WILDLIFE AND FRESHWATER FISHERIES DIVISION
Meeting of March 10, 20074
FIVE RIVERS DELTA RESOURCE CENTER30945 Five Rivers Boulevard5
Spanish Fort, Alabama
6
Before the Conservation Advisory Board7
Beginning at 9:00 A.M.
8
APPEARANCES:
9
BOARD MEMBERS:
10
Mr. Dan L. Moultrie-Chairman
P.O. Box 18811
Verbena, AL 36091
Congressional District 612
Mr. Louis W. Coles13
6207 County Road 625
Enterprise, AL 3633014
Congressional District 2
15
Dr. A. Wayne May
188 County Road 20316Eutaw, AL 35462
Congressional District 717
Mr. James W. Porter, II18
215 NO. Richard Arrington Jr. Blvd.
10th Floor19
Birmingham, AL 35203
Congressional District 620
Mr. Bill Hatley21
639 Estate Drive
Gulf Shores, AL 3654222Congressional District 1
23
Mr. Gaines Smith24
AL Coop Extension Service
109 Duncan Hall25
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1
Commissioner M. Barnett Lawley, Secretary
Department of Conservation2
P.O. Box 301450
Montgomery, AL 36130-14503
Mr. Ross M. Self410419 Highway 180 West
Gulf Shores, AL 365425
Congressional District 1
6
Mr. Johnny M. Johnson
1018 54th Street East7
Tuscaloosa, AL 35405
Congressional District 78
Mr. W. Grant Lynch9
P.O. Box 777
Talladega, AL 3516110
Congressional District 3
11
Dr. Warren Strickland
930 Franklin Street12
Huntsville, AL 35801
Congressional District 513
Mr. George Harbin14
1177 Elliott Road
Gadsden, AL 35904-691015
Congressional District 416
Mr. David Dean17
Deputy Legal Counsel for the
Alabama Department of Conservation and18
Natural Resources
64 North Union Street19
Montgomery, AL 36130
20
21
Ms. Robin Nummy22Alabama Department of Conservation and
Natural Resources23
64 North Union Street
Montgomery, AL 3613024
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Also Present: Corky Pugh1
Gary Moody
David Hayden2
3
4
5
I N D E X P A G E6
Invocation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47
Presenting of Award . . . . . . . . . . 68
Introduction of Advisory Board. . . . . 79
Proposed Changes. . . . . . . . . . . . 910
Motions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1311
Proposed Changes. . . . . . . . . . . . 1512
New Business. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6113
Meeting Adjourned . . . . . . . . . . . 7814
15
16
17
18
19
CHAIRMAN: Let the March 10, 2007 meeting20
of the Conservation Advisory Board come to order. At21
this time I'd like to welcome everybody to Five22
Rivers, and the Board is glad that you all are able to23
be here today.24
I would also like to recognize past25
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Commissioner Riley Smith. The Commissioner and I both1
-- I'm sure he's going to recognize you also. Riley,2
it's good to see you as always. Glad to have you3
here. The -- the invocation at this time will be4
given by Mr. Johnny Johnson. Mr. Johnson.5
MR. JOHNSON: Let us pray. Dear Heavenly6
Father, we thank you for your guidance and leadership7
concerning your will and purpose for our State's8
Conservation Advisory Board meeting today. We pray9
that our meeting will be conducted in a manner that10
will bring honor and glory to you.11
Lord, help us to realize and make room for12
the ideas and opinions of others that are different13
from ours. We thank you for your love. Lord, we pray14
that you would bring righteous leaders into the15
forefront of decision-making in the United States and16
give Your wisdom to each of them.17
Destroy the strongholds and plans of the18
enemy in this country and for this country. Please19
protect our military leaders and troops wherever they20
are. We partition you, Lord, for their safety.21
Father, provide for and protect their families. Pour22
out Your piece upon our nation. Through Your Holy23
Spirit, comfort the lonely and strengthen the weary.24
Please be with us as we return to our homes25
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today. Thank you, Father. In Jesus' name we pray,1
amen.2
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. For3
the next order of business, I'd like to call on4
Commissioner Barnett Lawley to introduce the5
Conservation Advisory Board.6
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Good morning.7
Before I do that, I want to thank Jim Griggs in the8
Lands Division for Five Rivers, this facility in which9
we're meeting. We're very excited about it. It's the10
Delta Resource Center, and it's getting a -- it's very11
popular in the Baldwin/Mobile County areas.12
It's getting a lot of use, and we haven't13
even officially opened, but we appreciate their14
efforts and what they've done to allow us to meet here15
today.16
Before I allow everybody to introduce17
themselves, I'd like to call on Bobby Huffaker and18
Sergeant Ronald Harris. If you all would come up here19
for just a minute.20
On May 21, 2006, Sergeant Ronald Harris21
stopped a boat on Lake Harding for a safety22
inspection. After completing that stop and issuing a23
citation for equipment violation, Sergeant Harris24
observed the boat leave the scene and strike a wake to25
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As we do in every meeting, we're going to allow, start1
with Mr. Hatley on the end to tell you who he is and2
what district he represents.3
MR. HATLEY: My name is Bill Hatley. I4
represent South Alabama District 1.5
MR. SELF: My name is Ross Self, and I6
also represent District 1.7
MR. SMITH: I'm Grant Smith, at large,8
State wide.9
MR. LYNCH: Grant Lynch, District 3.10
MR. STRICKLAND: Warren Strickland,11
Congressional District 5. That's Northern Alabama.12
MR. COLES: Louis Coles, Congressional13
District 2.14
MR. PORTER: Jim Porter, Congressional15
District 6.16
MR. JOHNSON: Johnny Johnson,17
Congressional District 7.18
DR. MAY: Wayne May, Congressional19
District 7.20
MR. HARBIN: George Harbin, District 4.21
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: And, of course, Dan22
Moultrie, our Chairman. We appreciate you all being23
here.24
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lawley. The25
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of commercial gill nets around the 4th of July holiday1
for the next five years.2
And I recommend on that, for that holiday,3
that for 2007, the five-day closure will start at4
12:01 A.M. on July 3, 2007 through 12:01 on July 9,5
2007, which will be a five-day closure.6
Also, I propose a change to 220-3-.03, use7
of nets and harvest of Mullet and 220-2-.42(4)(b), use8
and possession of certain nets, wildlife and9
freshwater fisheries areas, specifically increasing10
the mesh size for the taking of Mullet for roe and11
food fish. The mesh size should be increased from an12
inch and seven-eighths knot to knot to two inches knot13
to knot for roe Mullet and would be increased from one14
and three-eights inches knot to knot to one and15
one-half inches knot to knot for food fish.16
The next would be a proposed change to17
220-3.03, saltwater fish creel, bag, possession:18
Change recreational bag limit and commercial size19
limit for Red Snapper to conform with federal20
regulations.21
I believe at this time the recreational22
creel limit in federal waters will be two per person23
and the commercial size limit will be thirteen inches.24
The main reason for this change would be just to agree25
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with the federal regulations.1
Another -- another change to that same2
regulation would be saltwater fish creel, bag,3
possession and size limits should change Vermillion4
Snapper, the minimum size limit, to conform with5
federal regulations.6
And at this time, the Vermillion Snapper7
size limit will be reduced from eleven inches to ten8
inches, and this is something the feds have done.9
They say we've got too many Vermillion Snapper.10
You know, I can't question about that, but11
they're reducing -- reducing the size limit. So we12
need to amend our regulation just to go along with13
them.14
Another one to that same 220-3-.03 is15
saltwater fish creel, bag, possession and size limits.16
This requires that any vessel or individual required17
to possess a federal permit to harvest or retain18
marine aquatic species must possess such permit to19
possess or land such in Alabama.20
Then I think this is the last change21
proposed for 220-3-.25. That's the commercial taking22
and landing of Red Snapper. Change the regulation23
language to conform with new federal regulations that24
establish individual quota -- quota allocations -- I'm25
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sorry -- individual quota allocations for the1
commercial Red Snapper fishery. And this is again to2
make Alabama's regs to conform with the federal3
regulations. That's all I have.4
CHAIRMAN: Is there a motion to accept5
those?6
MR. HATLEY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to7
make a motion that we adopt all the recommendations of8
Mr. Self.9
CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?10
MR. SMITH: I second that.11
CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and a second12
that we adopt the regulations just read by Mr. Self.13
Is there any discussion on these? (No response) If14
no discussion, the motion is again to adopt these15
regulations, these proposals just read by Board member16
Self. All those in favor.17
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")18
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response)19
No opposed? The motion passes.20
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I also want to21
welcome past Commissioner Riley Smith. I don't see22
him out there right now. (Pointed out) Oh, okay. I23
appreciate you being with us today.24
MR. SMITH: Thank you.25
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COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Now I'll call on1
Corky Pugh, the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater2
Fisheries.3
MR. PUGH: There are several revisions to4
the recommended season and bag limits presented at the5
last Board meeting on page five. (Court reporter6
asked Mr. Pugh to speak up.) I'm sorry. There are7
two revisions for the season and bag limit8
recommendations.9
If you look at page five, Lawrence and10
Winston Counties should have been in those hunters11
choice dates; December the 27th through January 1st.12
And on page twelve -- and this is something that was13
done at the recommendation of one of the Board14
members, I believe -- under, "Fox, Coyote and Feral15
Swine, Legal Arms and Ammunition," there's a16
clarification for no buckshot being used in shotguns17
during stalk gun, deer season only.18
CHAIRMAN: Is there a motion that we adopt19
those recommendations at this time?20
MR. HATLEY: So moved.21
MR. HARBIN: I'll make the motion.22
CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?23
UNKNOWN BOARD MEMBER: Second.24
CHAIRMAN: There is a motion and a second25
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to the proposals as read by Corky Pugh are adopted to1
those regulations. Is there any discussion? (No2
response) Being no discussion --3
MR. COLES: There is some discussion.4
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coles.5
MR. COLES: Are we adopting all of the6
seasons here?7
CHAIRMAN: The ones just so read, just so8
read.9
MR. COLES: Just so read?10
CHAIRMAN: There being no further11
discussion, there's a motion and a second to pass that12
these proposals be put into regulations. All those in13
favor?14
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")15
CHAIRMAN: All opposed. (No response.)16
The motion passes.17
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: That's all I have,18
Daniel.19
CHAIRMAN: The next order of business is20
the public hearing. When your name is called, please21
go to the microphone and give your name and the22
subject you wish to speak upon.23
DR. MAY: Mr. Moultrie, may I interrupt?24
CHAIRMAN: Yes.25
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DR. MAY: I have a motion on the dove1
season.2
CHAIRMAN: We can do it now or as new3
business. Commissioner, which would you rather do?4
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I think new business5
is when it should be brought up. That's when you6
intended to bring up the bag limits?7
MR. PUGH: Yes.8
CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. I'll remind9
you at the end that you may only speak at the time10
that you're called upon to speak. Any interference11
with the speaker will not be tolerated. Robin, do you12
have our list?13
MS. NUMMY: Yes. There is one in front of14
you.15
CHAIRMAN: First to speak will be Riley B.16
Smith.17
MR. SMITH: Good morning. I'm Riley18
Smith. I'm President of the Alabama Wildlife19
Federation, and I'm speaking to you today on behalf of20
the Federation. Before I do that I have a personal21
comment. Commissioner, you, Jim Griggs, and the rest22
of the staff of the Department have done a magnificent23
thing here. You should be very proud.24
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank you.25
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MR. SMITH: I think this is going to be1
such a tremendous jump in all points for ingress and2
egress into the Delta, and it's just -- it's good.3
We're very proud.4
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank you.5
MR. SMITH: I want to focus on one thing6
today, and I see you all have a full plate, as you7
usually do, so I won't be too long. But as I'm sure8
everybody is aware, there is public legislation for a9
hunting licenses increase.10
I think all of you also are very aware how11
direly this is needed. The Wildlife and Freshwater12
Fishery Division is going to be in very rough shape if13
it's not passed. The Alabama Wildlife Federation14
strongly supports this legislation.15
We have talked at length with Commissioner16
Lawley and members of the Department and Corky, and17
understand how critical it is that this legislation18
pass at this time.19
I've had a little experience now with the20
Legislature. And a revenue measure, even as one like21
this that is needed so badly, will meet some22
resistance. There's always somebody that says, okay,23
they've got plenty of money and we don't need to do24
this. This is not going to be an easy bill to pass.25
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I know the Commissioner and our Executive1
Director met with leadership of both Houses and I2
think we've got the support of those leaders. But3
anything can happen when you get on the floor.4
Again, a revenue measure is tough. It5
needs to be clean. It needs to go in there as it has6
been presented, and it doesn't need any real7
cut-and-paste efforts from the floor.8
I would ask you today, because I know that9
the Legislature values the opinion of this Board, to10
pass a resolution and forward it to the Legislature in11
both Houses that the Conservation Advisory Board12
strongly supports the legislation in its present form13
and asks that no amendments be allowed to this14
legislation.15
I think if it gets bogged down, especially16
on the floor, if it gets bogged down with a bunch of17
amendments, you'll lose this bill. You won't be able18
to pass it. And, again, this is -- I was aware of19
this issue when I was Commissioner. It was a problem20
back then, but we saw it coming. The Commissioner is21
dealing with it.22
If you don't pass this now -- this is the23
first session of the next four years -- if you don't24
pass this now, you probably won't pass it. So I would25
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ask that you all would be -- consider a motion to urge1
the Legislature to pass the bills in their present2
form and resist any amendments. Thank you so much.3
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith. The next4
speaker will be Mike Colquett.5
MR. COLQUETT: I'm Mike Colquett. I'm6
here today on behalf of the State Chapter of the NWTF.7
It's my understanding at your February meeting it was8
reported that we had officially endorsed a turkey9
tagging system. I'm here today to let you know that10
that is not a correct statement. We discussed it, but11
no official action has been taken, so we have not12
officially endorsed that.13
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The next14
speaker will be Mr. Don Knight.15
MR. KNIGHT: I'm Don Knight. I'm speaking16
at this time on -- a lot of folks have just asked me17
to speak on the three-buck limit. We're officially18
against that. But before I start on that, we'd like19
to also recommend that the House Bill 256 on boat20
registration also be included in that recommendation21
from the Board. And we would also like to recommend22
that all hunters and fishermen get out and support,23
call your Legislature to get this increase.24
We know it's needed, and we want to25
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year hunting license if you do that.1
We have a situation in a club I hunt with2
where we bring the deer in, cut them up, divide the3
meat and put it in coolers. How are we going to leave4
with that without being stopped and checked and how5
are we going to prove that we didn't kill that deer as6
a buck or as partial meat?7
I mean, there is so much here that is8
unenforceable. And, quite frankly, our enforcement9
officers are cut so short now. We think it would take10
so much away from the enforcement of other things11
that's needed that we just don't see how it would work12
at this point. That's what I had on that. Thank you.13
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Knight. The14
next speaker will be Keith Lynch.15
MR. LYNCH: I'm Keith Lynch from Conecuh16
County. It's my understanding that if this Board goes17
through with the three-buck limit that it's got its18
good and its bad.19
But we're in a situation where we have a20
later rut season. I don't know why we do. I would21
like to see the season extended two weeks if possible.22
Most of our deer are -- the bigger bucks are not being23
seen until the season goes out, and too many small24
deer are being killed. Thank you.25
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CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lynch. The next1
speaker will be Rick Yeager.2
MR. YEAGER: It's good to see you, Dan.3
It's good to see the Board members. I appreciate you4
all hosting this event and allowing us to come up here5
and talk with you.6
I've got several issues to go over, so7
I'll just briefly touch on them. Robin has made a8
copy of this so that she can get it to each one of9
you.10
One of the first subjects that I want to11
go over is -- are since they were talking about the12
three-buck limit, the three-buck limit is a very good13
program. Tennessee has done for it for years. They14
did a tagging system. Every processor in the State is15
aware of it and the people police their own out there.16
If they see somebody killing four or five17
bucks, they turn them in. But the Tennessee deer have18
increased in numbers on the Boone & Crockett, Kroll19
and Pope&Young scales. Some of that information is in20
documents for you guys. It also shows that since21
1995, basically, in Alabama, or before 1995, Alabama22
was the lowest rank state on Pope&Young, Kroll or23
Boone & Crockett.24
Since 1995, we've continued to drop down25
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to place forty-three. I think Delaware is below us.1
But the three-point rule on one side will increase the2
maturity of the bucks in the State and setting a3
three-buck limit is not too stringent. It will4
increase the people to shoot bucks, not that those are5
an over-population situation in a lot of places. In6
our place, I guess we're running about a two-buck to7
one-doe population. So we've cut back on shooting any8
does until we get that population up.9
But we've got a bunch of one-thirty and10
one-forty and one-sixty class bucks running around in11
there. The rut problem that we had this year, it was12
too dang hot. You can't control Mother Nature. In13
December, we had ruts the second week, two and-a-half14
-- about a week and-a-half, and then we had ruts in15
January the second and third week, and it was all16
pretty much at nighttime.17
We had bucks running through the camp18
chasing does. It was quite funny, but it was a19
terrible season, really, for harvesting nice bucks20
because they did stay in the swamps and didn't run21
until night until it got below that forty degree22
temperature. That's when they run.23
Supplemental feeding is something that24
I want to bring up. It's not just a request. It's a25
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requirement. If you notice driving down here from1
upstate or since you live here, or if you live in the2
South or Southeast, you notice that everything is pine3
trees.4
I don't know about you guys, but eating5
deer that eats nothing but briars and pine trees is6
probably not real good. I've killed deer in areas7
before we started getting planting systems in, and the8
deer meat, of course, is not real good.9
When you lease land, your landowners only10
give you a certain amount.11
MS. NUMMY: Time.12
MR. YEAGER: Are you cutting me off?13
MS. NUMMY: Three minutes.14
CHAIRMAN: We'll give you a chance to wind15
it up if you want.16
MR. YEAGER: Okay. Thank you very much,17
Dan. Supplemental feeding has become a very big18
requirement because of the amount of hardwood that has19
been harvested out of the State.20
The land that you lease, the land that21
you're able to lease, you're only given a certain22
amount of space for plants. Out of a fifteen hundred23
acre section, we're planting twenty acres, and it's24
being mowed down to the ground. So we have to do25
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supplemental feeding.1
We had a program this year, instead of2
stopping at season, we ran three stations across the3
property. And on camera and film we've got the deer4
that will go to it, that will eat for about five5
minutes, and then they go on to do their browsing.6
They're not going to spend all their time at feeders.7
And if it was implemented, I would suggest8
that it would be for quality deer management, plus to9
have a minimum of three or four points on one side10
rule with limits on the bucks. I can't cover anything11
else because Robin is going to shoot me.12
CHAIRMAN: But there's a copy of all that13
information for the Board to look at?14
MR. YEAGER: Yes, sir. I gave a copy of15
it to Robin.16
MS. NUMMY: I've got it, and I'll send it17
out to you all.18
CHAIRMAN: Okay. That will be great.19
We'll receive that and we appreciate your comments.20
MR. YEAGER: Thank you very much for21
having me.22
CHAIRMAN: The next speaker will be23
Mr. James Butler.24
MR. BUTLER: It's nice to meet you all. I25
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want to bring up the situation about the dogs. Right1
now we're in a situation where it's unsafe to travel2
down the road. You don't know when you're going to3
hit a deer. You know, it's happened to me this year.4
I had a sixty-five hundred dollar claim, and I feel if5
we do away with the season, the deer population will6
grow until it's just going to make the insurance7
companies get involved in this.8
So if we can keep the gaming laws just9
like they are right now, that's all we're asking, you10
know. And if landowners and other people have11
legitimate complaints, let's investigate those crimes,12
ticket those people, arrest them if that's what they13
need.14
We're taking a small amount of population.15
It's just going to ruin it for a larger part of the16
people that hunt. So a lot of dog hunters aren't as17
bad as what people think they are. We obey all the18
game laws. The three-deer game limit, it's just going19
to be hard to enforce because people are going to do20
their own field processing. Everybody don't take them21
to the processors.22
What we need to try to do is leave things23
like they are right now, and if they need to be24
investigated on any kind of complaints by landowners25
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and stuff, let's pursue that instead of just trying to1
vote it out for the minority instead of the majority.2
That's all I have.3
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Butler. The4
next speaker will be Tim Couch.5
MS. NUMMY: Quiet, please.6
MR. COUCH: Good morning, everybody. My7
name is Tim Couch. I'm a landowner in Fayette County.8
I hunt deer with dogs. I'm here today to ask9
everybody to consider leaving dog hunting in Fayette10
County. I know there has been some complaints from11
landowners, but I know for a fact that there are some12
outlawed dog hunters out there. But everybody is not13
an outlaw.14
I've talked to some people in Marion15
County, Lamar County where dog hunting has been16
banned. They tell me they've still got the same17
outlaws they had when dog hunting was in. The18
outlaws, just because you get rid of the good hunters,19
the only thing that does, that opens up the whole20
county. You've got no clubs to control part of it.21
You still have got the same outlaw hunters22
that have got the whole county to themselves. That's23
the point I want to make today. I thank you for your24
time.25
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CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley.1
MR. HATLEY: Mr. Couch, how much land do2
you have on the old Liberty hunting ground?3
MR. COUCH: Somewhere around thirty-five4
hundred acres.5
MR. HATLEY: About how many members do you6
have?7
MR. COUCH: We have forty -- I believe8
it's forty-two -- or forty-seven.9
MR. HATLEY: And you've got a good hunting10
club, it sounds like, evidently. Do you -- do you --11
you say, do you know these outlaw hunters?12
MR. COUCH: Well, I mean, I know they're13
out there, you know, because I have problems myself on14
my personal land. But, you know, I don't want to take15
away from everybody what -- what -- because of, you16
know, ten or twelve guys, you know. And I'm sure that17
I know I've heard complaints out of Tuscaloosa County.18
I don't personally know the people, but, you know,19
I've dog hunted all my life. There is always a few20
out there that want to cause problems that don't lease21
up enough land to dog hunt.22
You can't blame everybody because of what23
-- a few people that don't want to get out and do24
right. It's kind of like you've got a man that wants25
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to drive continuously drunk. You can't take1
everybody's driver's license because you've got a man2
that wants to drive drunk.3
MR. HATLEY: Thank you.4
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. The next5
speaker will be Mr. John Dover.6
MR. DOVER: Good morning. My name is John7
Dover. I'm from Berry, Alabama, in Fayette County.8
The first thing is I'd like to thank the Board members9
who came to our meeting there in Berry on Sunday,10
February the 18th that Mr. Cook was gracious enough to11
hold for us all in the county.12
I'd like to thank Don Knight with the13
Alabama dog hunters for also attending. There was14
good representation of both sides. A lot of views15
were expressed, and we had -- we had the tool shed16
packed out the doors, what is known as the equipment17
shed.18
A lot of people from all over the county,19
a lot of people weren't aware of the problems they20
were having in one location of the county. It was21
like Mr. Couch said; you have outlaw hunters every22
place you go. I understand we were short on law23
enforcement, especially on the game wardens.24
On behalf of the Fayette County dog25
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hunters, I would like to say we would like to support1
the referendum here and legislation to increase the2
hunting licenses and get some more game wardens, get3
more game wardens and get rid of the outlaws that we4
have within Fayette County.5
But I think it's a localized problem. We6
have a small county; in the 2000 census, eighteen7
thousand four hundred ninety-five people living in8
Fayette County. I've presented Robin here with a9
petition from Fayette County and I'd like the Board to10
see that it has fifteen hundred names. I got some11
more this morning in support, you know, of leaving12
things the way they are in Fayette County. So these13
are landowners and these are citizens. We're a small14
community and a small county.15
There's more people in Northport than16
there are in all Fayette County. So, you know, I17
think that we can work together. And when we get18
together in the same fashion as we did in February and19
talk to each other, that we can resolve a lot more20
than somebody resolving it for us, just people getting21
together to resolve it amongst ourselves. I'd like to22
thank you all for your time this morning.23
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Dover. The next24
speaker will be Steven Dover.25
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MR. DOVER: Yes, sir. My name is Steven1
Dover. I'm from Northport, Alabama. I'm a landowner2
and leaseholder in both Fayette and Tuscaloosa3
Counties.4
In regards to the complaints that have to5
do specifically with dog hunting in Fayette and6
Tuscaloosa Counties, Officer Sanford told me that, as7
far as the northern part of the County, there were8
hardly any complaints. That was his area. The next9
day I received a call saying that there were three10
complaints in Tuscaloosa County. Specifically they11
were with dog hunting and there were four arrests.12
In Tuscaloosa County, as of the year 2000,13
there was a hundred sixty-eight thousand people. I14
must respectfully submit the old adage that if there15
is no problem, don't fix it. I didn't say that quite16
right. I know we all know what I meant.17
In Fayette County, there were twenty-three18
complaints. Fourteen had to do with hunting on19
private property without a permit; nine had to do with20
hunting from a public road. So I say with these21
lawbreakers there ought to be no tolerance for them.22
Our laws are not unreasonable, so let's put it on23
them.24
All right. Man has hunted with dogs as25
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long as man and dogs have existed together. I ask1
that you please do not restrict dog hunting because of2
the complaints of those who either don't like it or3
those that have moved here and wish to change the way4
we have traditionally hunted for hundreds of years.5
I'm in favor of raising the hunting6
license fees so we might have more officers in the7
field. For those who are anti-dog hunting, I ask that8
you not be so quick to do away with our freedom to9
hunt with dogs. If you've got a problem with dog10
hunters, talk with them; be respectful. Be willing to11
show the same respect that we give in return. Act12
like big boys and always remember the young hunters13
are watching us. We must set a good example for them.14
There is room in the woods for all of us. Thank you.15
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The next16
speaker will be Phillip Kizzire.17
MR. KIZZIRE: Good morning. I'm Phillip18
Kizzire from Fayette County, landowner and resident of19
Fayette County. I'm here to speak about the dog20
hunting issue. I've been a dog hunter from the time I21
was a little boy with my father. I've got a son22
that's fourteen years old that enjoys every minute of23
his dog hunting.24
When you go hunting -- I belong to a stalk25
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hunting club also and a dog hunting club. My son1
enjoys stalk hunting, but there's not as much2
relationship between me and him with stalk hunting3
because you're sitting there being quiet, being still4
in a tree.5
If we go dog hunting, we gather up6
everyone, draw our stands. There's a lot of7
relationship between the grown-ups and my son and a8
lot of other people in my club that bring their9
children with us. I think this is something that we10
need to leave as it is right now in Fayette County.11
If you do have a problem with our club or any other12
club, please contact us. You know, let the people of13
Fayette County contact us. We'll try to deal with14
those problems and get those problems straightened out15
without somebody taking a right from us that we've had16
for years. That's all I've got to say. Thank you.17
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The next speaker18
will be Ms. Susan Morrow.19
MS. MORROW: Good morning, Chairman and20
Board members. I'm here to speak to you today about21
dog hunting in Cochtaw County. My husband and I are22
members of Scott Mountain Hunting Club. We had two23
dogs that were shot this year. Here is one of the24
collars that we found. We did not find its body.25
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You have some pictures of some dogs that1
I found in the woods that have been shot. They're not2
our dogs. I don't know whose they are, but they're3
not ours. Our first dog, we went and we was tracking4
him. We spent a lot of money to get our dogs back. I5
have my own tracking system. My husband has his own6
tracking system.7
We try to help all the other dog hunters8
track theirs. We can track their collars. Everybody9
tries to help everybody get their dogs up. We want10
our dogs back. And we have a problem with stalk11
hunters coming to the club and telling us that they12
heard dogs barking. They don't know whose dogs they13
are. They didn't see the dogs. But if it happens14
again, they are going to get petitions up and dog15
hunting is going to be stopped.16
Well, as we tell them that we have17
tracking systems, we're trying to get the dogs back;18
if they can help us come up with another way that will19
help us get our dogs away from them, fine; we will do20
it. We're not the only dog hunting club there.21
Then we went and talked with some people22
where we was tracking one of our dogs, and all of a23
sudden it quit tracking. So -- and they told us that24
they had not seen it. And the night before dog season25
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went out, January the 14th, we was tracking a dog that1
this collar was on. And we picked up one of our dogs,2
one that we had just bought, spent a hundred fifty3
dollars on it. We picked it up first, because this4
dog here I had raised from a baby.5
And this dog would stay and he would come6
when we would call him. And when we got the other dog7
loaded up to take it back to the camp, we went back to8
get the other dog, no beep, no signal, whatsoever.9
The next day my husband and son -- it was raining.10
They were out looking, calling him. You could call11
him by name and he would come if he was close.12
But when we was tracking him that night,13
the last track that we had on him, he was deep in the14
woods and he was between Rock Gap Road and the Larry15
McKenzie Camp.16
And the next day my husband was on one17
side of Rabbit Creek Road, and he was on the bridge18
looking in the water and he seen this. And he waded19
in the creek and got this collar.20
My son went and asked Bud Robinson on the21
land could he have permission to go on his land and22
hunt our dog's body so we could give him a proper23
burial. And he told him he wouldn't give permission24
but that he was leaving, and whatever happened while25
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he was gone he had no control over. And he got in his1
truck and he left.2
My son walked so far, and he could not3
find him. And I reported all of these incidents to4
Montgomery. I called District 5 the first time. They5
wanted to know why we was calling them about a dog6
getting shot. That's where I think that Chochtaw7
County is supposed to report to. And then when this8
one happened, I called Montgomery because I think it9
was a holiday.10
MS. NUMMY: Time.11
CHAIRMAN: Susan, please continue. I want12
you to continue. Go ahead.13
MS. MORROW: I called Montgomery, and I14
told them what the situation was. And the night15
before there had been another dog that had been shot,16
and a hunter had heard this dog. They heard the shot17
and they heard the dog crying. And then they heard18
another shot and they heard a truck leave. It was not19
on our property. It was on some property that was20
bordering ours. And Montgomery had Vince Wood,21
the game warden, call me. And he told me if we had22
any evidence, if we found our dog's body, to please23
call him and he would go in there.24
And he told me that he would go and talk25
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to the people, the clubs, about this. And we're not1
the only dog hunting club. We respect the stalk2
hunters. We just ask that they respect us, too,3
because we spend a lot of money and hunting is very4
good. It's very good for the kids. Dog hunting the5
kids love. I love it. I've done it all my life. My6
husband has done it all his life. That's how we raise7
our children. It helps keep children off the streets8
because dog hunting is a socializing thing. It's a9
lot more fun than stalk hunting.10
I do stalk hunt and I do appreciate stalk11
hunters, and I do respect stalk hunters' rights, but I12
would ask that something be done because it's hard.13
When we raise a dog, we take care of our dogs. Our14
dogs are in concrete pens and they go to vets. They15
have shots. We have three dog boxes, aluminum dog16
boxes. We have a dog box to go on our four-wheelers,17
and we do everything that we can to get our dogs back.18
And if you can figure out a way where we19
can keep our dogs off of other people's land, we will,20
but dogs have rights, too. And there is no difference21
in somebody shooting our hunting dogs than somebody's22
pet, like the stories that you see on the local news23
about pets that have been abused because they are pets24
and they're treated with respect.25
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Just because we use them to run deer or1
hogs, whatever you use them for, it doesn't mean you2
don't love them. And we would just like to see3
something be done that can help everybody come4
together on this, and that's all I have to say.5
CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you, Susan.6
Ms. Morrow, what district did you all hunt in? Do you7
live and hunt in a different district?8
MS. MORROW: Yes. I live in Huntsville,9
Alabama, and I hunt all over the state, but we belong10
to Scott Mountain Hunting Club in Butler, Alabama.11
CHAIRMAN: In Butler? Okay. All right.12
The next speaker will be Todd Tucker.13
MR. TUCKER: Good morning. My name is14
Todd Tucker of Fayette County. I can't say much more15
than Ms. Morrow hasn't already said. She pretty much16
summed it up for all of us, I think, and any other17
speaker before us. I am a pro dog hunter of Fayette18
County, and I would ask that we make the same -- we19
don't need to change anything. We came a long way20
down here today to talk to the Board. We did this by21
choice. That's what we want. I want the right to be22
able to choose what we want to do, the method we want23
to hunt.24
I've got a son that's nineteen years old,25
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and I started him when he was old enough to walk,1
teaching him how to dog hunt, stalk hunt, still hunt,2
tree-stand hunt. Now the choice is his for whatever3
he wants to do, and that's the way I want it. And4
that's the way it should be when you raise children.5
They should have a choice of how they want to spend6
their time hunting and fishing.7
Like I say, Ms. Morrow pretty much summed8
it up for the dog hunters. We all agree with her. We9
take care of ours dogs and we try not to let them get10
on other people's property, but sometimes they do and11
we can't help that. We don't want them to, but12
sometimes it happens.13
And a lot of landowners will call us or14
the club will call us to come pick up our dogs, and15
that's the way it should be. We had a meeting up in16
Berry last month. There was probably three hundred in17
attendance. Some of the Board members were there.18
And like I say, probably ninety percent, plus, were19
pro dog hunters there at that meeting.20
I, myself, went to try to understand why21
there's an issue of trying to ban dog hunting in the22
county. The minority group that was there, one guy23
didn't like to hear dogs on his property while he was24
hunting. He didn't want to hear the sound of the dog.25
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There was a lady that couldn't ride her1
horses because she was afraid they were going to be2
shot. And there was another gentleman that said he3
had to sell his property because dogs was running all4
over it. I don't know if I believe that or not, but5
that's his -- that's his story.6
The majority, just like us, we just want7
to keep things the way they are, and we're not asking8
you to make any new rules or regulations or change9
anything. We're just asking you that it remain the10
same and give us the right to choose. Thank you.11
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The next12
speaker will be, again, Mr. Knight. You wanted to13
speak on a different subject, I think.14
MR. KNIGHT: I'm Don Knight. I live in15
Anniston, but I hunt in Barbour County. I had to16
think a minute, but I'm the State President of the17
Alabama Dog Hunting Association. That's what I'm18
speaking on here today.19
I did attend the meeting in Berry,20
Alabama. I thought it was a well-attended meeting.21
There was approximately three hundred people there of22
which, like I say, by far the majority was pro dog. I23
think the petitions that they brought in today with24
some more names added today, there is over two25
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thousand names now in favor of dog hunting in Fayette1
County.2
The meeting went well. I wish we could3
have got the people together where they could have4
discussed things. I tried that. The lady that I5
talked with wasn't interested. I think she had fear,6
which is terrible. We're not about any kind of fear7
tactics or anything else in the dog hunters in Fayette8
County.9
I found these people very passionate about10
their hunting, but I found them also very willing to11
help find the guilty people to where they can continue12
to hunt the way they want to hunt. Punish the people,13
not the method of hunting. That's just not -- not the14
thing I think the people want to happen today.15
I've heard several people speak lately16
about not seeing any deer on their property all year,17
but the dogs run across their property. I've been18
hunting fifty -- well over fifty years in the State of19
Alabama, not in any other state, all right here in20
Alabama. The possibility of that and the dogs causing21
that problem are just astronomically low.22
My suggestion to these people is to try23
going around to the stores and see who is buying all24
the corn that don't have domestic animals, because I25
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think you'll find your problem. That's probably why1
you're not seeing any deer, more so than a dog running2
across your property.3
We have found on our land, and we've been4
hunting thirty-five years, after we run an area, say5
in the morning, that's the area we want to still hunt6
in the evening. Those deer are coming back that day.7
Dan, I think I gave you a full report8
where the Universities of South Carolina, Georgia and9
Florida went in and did a test on running deer with10
dogs. They ran these deer hard, extremely hard. They11
found that they were back in the area they left and12
the most was twenty-four hours. They were right back13
where they came from in the area.14
So we have big deer on our property. I15
think most all of you have heard about some of the16
deer that we kill on our land over there in Barbour17
County. We've been running that same land for over18
thirty-five years. It's up to us --19
MS. NUMMY: Time.20
MR. KNIGHT: -- to take care of it, and we21
appreciate it. We would just ask that you punish the22
people and let us help you in Fayette County or any23
other county in the State and let us continue with dog24
hunting in Alabama.25
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CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The next1
speaker will be John Ward.2
MS. NUMMY: Quiet, please.3
MR. WARD: My name is John Ward. We have4
about sixty-five hundred acres we lease in Fayette5
County. We have got great hunting dogs. We -- we do6
everything right. I mean, other hunters come7
alongside of us all day long catching the other dogs.8
We have thirty-two youth turning out for the youth9
hunt. (Reporter having trouble understanding Mr. Ward10
and asked him to repeat his statement.) We had11
thirty-two young kids for the youth hunt, and I've got12
a son who is fighting in the military. He's a dog13
hunter, too. He can't wait to get home.14
About three months ago we all thought he15
got killed. That tore me up. Well, we got a call16
later on that night that he wasn't killed but another17
guy named Jason Ward. You know, they help us a lot,18
you know. My heart goes out towards those guys. We19
don't want to worry about hunting laws. What we need20
to do is enforce the hunting licenses and get more21
game wardens to help us and get the outlaws out of22
here. If you don't get the game wardens out here, we23
can't help you, you know. I thank you all for24
everything you've done for us.25
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CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ward. The next1
speaker will be Sybil Deschaines.2
MS. DESCHAINES: The first thing I would3
like to do is express --4
CHAIRMAN: Speak up to the microphone,5
please, Ms. Deschaines. Thank you.6
MS. DESCHAINES: -- express our sympathy7
to Mr. Coles for the devastation in his town and the8
lives that were lost. I've been there. I know how it9
feels. I want to thank you for Elmore County, the ban10
that was put into effect ten years ago in May, and I'm11
still hearing it from the landowners in the community12
how wonderful it is; they hardly realize hunting13
season is open. And I thank you again for it. Thank14
you.15
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Deschaines. The16
next speaker will be D.O. Harden.17
MR. HARDEN: Good morning. I appreciate18
the opportunity to speak to you this morning. My name19
is D.O. Harden. I am a Fayette County landowner and20
leaseholder, and we are very much opposed to dog21
hunting in Fayette County for a lot of reasons. I'm22
just going to read a few things from a few letters23
that I have received and have gotten copies of, and24
these are things that we all have run into.25
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And what you are finding is when they say1
there weren't very many people there at Berry, there2
were so many people who were fearful, like the lady3
who was mentioned, of stepping up and voicing their4
opinions.5
And what we're trying -- I've been talking6
to a lot of people in Fayette County for the last two7
or three months trying to determine exactly what the8
extent of the problem is, and it is county wide. The9
problem is -- is -- is not with the dog hunting clubs,10
because we know there are some good ones, but,11
unfortunately, it appears that the bad ones outnumber12
the good ones.13
And what is occurring is that -- this --14
this almost becomes not -- not a dog hunting issue or15
a hunting issue, period. It's -- it's a -- it's a16
private property rights issue. It's the right to use17
your property without infringement in a peaceful18
manner and without -- without someone coming onto your19
property and trespassing.20
And what we find is that when we go out21
and we stalk hunt, there are too many instances, way22
too many instances of people who are running dogs on23
our properties. I, in fact, have even leased another24
three hundred seventy acres to try and insolate myself25
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from the dog hunters, but I find that they still come1
through my property.2
They're on the public roads that run3
through my property. They have their guns out and4
they're ready to shoot dogs as they are crossing. And5
mine is not an isolated incident.6
All of these letters give -- give7
indication of what is happening. For me to take the8
time to go through all of them, unfortunately, we9
don't have time. I wish I did.10
And I hope -- I hope that you all will11
take the time to do it. But we are asking that this12
problem be solved. Only you can solve it. It's13
getting worse. The intimidation, the threats are14
there. That's why you don't see many people here.15
And what we're trying to do is -- is get everyone's16
attention on this matter, and I think most of you17
realize what is happening. And it's time that we --18
we did something about it.19
Someone is going to get -- someone is20
going to get hurt. We've had property discussions.21
We've had livestock killed, and I'm not talking about22
this being every -- every -- I would say there are a23
good many people who are good dog hunters here, but24
it's the bad ones who outweigh the good ones.25
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MS. NUMMY: Time.1
CHAIRMAN: Just go ahead and finish,2
Mr. Harden.3
MR. HARDEN: And all we're asking for is a4
-- a return of our property rights. We don't have5
them anymore. We have an infringement of -- the dog6
hunters that we run into are only concerned about7
hunting their dogs. They don't care whether they're,8
you know, encroaching on our property, trespassing on9
our property or anything else.10
We are strictly against those dog hunters,11
and we're asking -- the only way the problem can be12
solved to return our property rights is to ban dog13
hunting in Fayette County. We're asking you to14
consider doing that and please help solve this15
problem. That's the only way it can be done. Thank16
you.17
MR. LYNCH: Mr. Harden, if I can ask you,18
where is your land located?19
MR. HARDEN: My land is located in East20
Central Fayette County in the Bankston area.21
MR. LYNCH: Thank you.22
CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The next speaker23
will be Truman Herren.24
MR. HERREN: My name is Truman Herren.25
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I'm from Northeast Fayette County. I'm opposed to dog1
hunting in its present state because dog hunters don't2
respect land lines. I've heard too many times that3
dogs can't read signs and don't know where the land4
lines are. But the problem is the manipulators of the5
dogs. As far as the petitions go, I put out ten6
petitions on clip boards like this with a known number7
of sheets.8
Of those ten, when I went back to pick9
them up, two were completely gone. Two more had been10
picked up by a friend of mine, which that was not11
true. Only one out of ten had the same number of12
sheets with the names on it. The rest of them13
disappeared mysteriously.14
I've been intimidated, threatened and15
vandalized, my property, in the last two weeks because16
I've had the lack of sense to speak up and express my17
views regarding dog hunting. It hasn't changed me in18
the least. I still don't like anybody running dogs on19
my land. It's not right.20
Since I've been speaking up, I've created21
a rift in my community, in the church that I grew up22
in, that the rest of my life will probably never be23
healed. So be it. Somebody has to speak for my24
children and grandchildren, and I'll be here doing it25
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at every opportunity. Thank you for your time.1
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Herren --2
MR. HERREN: Yes, sir.3
CHAIRMAN: -- could you come back?4
Mr. Porter has a question.5
MR. HERREN: Yes, sir.6
MR. PORTER: On the petitions that you did7
keep or get, how many signatures did you have?8
MR. HERREN: We have very few signatures.9
And the people that I talked to about that said that10
there was a lot of conversation but very few11
signatures because people expressed concern if they12
did sign.13
MR. PORTER: Thank you.14
CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.15
MR. JOHNSON: Did you state how many acres16
you had?17
MR. HERREN: Approximately seven hundred18
acres; yes, sir. There's a family-owned hunting club19
on that seven hundred acres. We've owned that20
property since the 17 -- 1840's -- I beg your pardon21
-- so I'm not a newcomer to Fayette County. I was22
gone for forty-two years, but I came back home.23
CHAIRMAN: Any other questions from the24
Board? (No response) Very good. Thank you,25
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Mr. Herren.1
MR. HERREN: Thank you.2
CHAIRMAN: The next speaker will be Paul3
Jeffreys.4
MR. JEFFREYS: Members of the Board, good5
morning. I'm Paul Jeffreys. I'm from Lamar County,6
and I've come down here today to thank you for the ban7
on dog and deer hunting in the Northwest corner of8
Alabama, in Lamar and Franklin and parts of Winston9
Counties. We came down here several years ago with a10
property rights issue problem. Three years ago you11
all granted us a ban on dog deer hunting.12
And since that time our way of life,13
hunting experiences, has drastically increased. It's14
nothing but a success story, gotten better and15
continues to get better year after year. I would just16
like to express a deep heartfelt thank you to each and17
every one of you for that ban and ask that you18
maintain it.19
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. The next20
speaker will be Mr. Jack Martin.21
MR. MARTIN: Good morning, Dan, Board22
members. Thank you for the time. I hunt in Fayette23
County. I'm a leaseholder. I'm probably hunting on24
about two hundred fifty acres. What I would like to25
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say to you is that I wouldn't be here today if there1
wasn't a problem.2
In some cases dogs run through other3
people's property unintentional, as we've heard this4
morning. In other cases, it is intentional. In these5
cases, it shows no respect for someone's property.6
Landowners and people who lease land have the right to7
protect and harvest the deer that they've raised on8
their property.9
The money and time spent to seed and10
prepare green fields, roads, it should not be wasted11
having deer run off the property. It's no fun to sit12
waiting to shoot all day with the grandchildren and13
them not be able to see any deer. You can hear the14
dogs run through the property. Where did the deer go?15
This is the very reason other counties16
have had to close down dog hunting. Fayette County is17
now surrounded by counties that have been closed to18
dog hunting. This has caused an influx of dog hunters19
within the county. Since this problem has been20
clearly identified and discussed at the previous21
meetings, people have received phone calls threatening22
them.23
Others have had their property's "No24
trespassing" signs destroyed. I feel a man should25
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have the right to his property without threats and1
abuse. A man should have the right to use his2
property as he sees fit.3
Members of the Board, I'm begging you to4
resolve this issue by closing down dog hunting in5
Fayette County. Thank you very much.6
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. The next7
speaker will be William Schober.8
MR. SCHOBER: Good morning. My name is9
William Schober. I reside in Jefferson County,10
Pleasant Grove. I hunt in Fayette County. I belong11
to a club that is a still and stalk hunting club who12
leases forty-four hundred acres in the vicinity of13
Fayette County between Berry and Fayette. I have two14
sons that hunt with me. I've heard a gentleman here15
today talking about hunting with his sons. I hunt16
with my two sons. They're thirty-two and thirty-five17
years old. I took them in the woods when they were18
five and seven.19
We've been still and stalk hunting except20
for two years. I belong to a dog hunting club in21
Tuscaloosa County to see how the other half live. I22
was not impressed. I actually stood on public roads23
while the dogs were running. There was parts of the24
land -- there was nine thousand acres. There were25
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parts of the land that that hunting club did not1
lease.2
They had no written permission from the3
owners of the land, nor did we have members of the4
landowners in our hunting parties, and we ran dogs5
across that land anyway.6
I saw deer that were bloodied limping off7
into the woods and asked these guys do you want to go8
track these deer. "No. It's nothing but a doe.9
Let's go back to another piece of property."10
So I've experienced the dog hunting side11
of this issue and I did not like what I saw. I've12
heard people sit up here and talk about traditions of13
dog hunting. Everybody is familiar with football in14
the State. Down at Auburn, when you win a big game15
you go roll to Tuber's Corner. (Phonetically) But16
you have to respect people's windows and you have to17
respect the cars.18
If you start taking cars and breaking out19
windows, that tradition will end. In Alabama, they20
have a tradition of parking in a particular area with21
their RVs before the game. There is a tradition where22
the alumni gather before and after the game to23
celebrate the win or to bemoan the loss.24
The RVers have been moved at the request25
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of the business owners down in that particular area in1
Alabama, at the University of Alabama, and they're2
talking about putting a parking area in there. That's3
tradition that by the wishes of others is going to be4
changed, and people are going to have to live with it.5
They talk about respect, and I've heard6
people talk about the threats made on them. We've had7
people in our club that have had threats made on them8
by dog hunters in the vicinity, and it's gotten pretty9
vocal.10
It's gotten almost to the point of fist11
fights. So there is a lack of respect in part by dog12
hunters on the rights of those who want to still and13
stalk hunt.14
With all due respect, at several of these15
meetings people have talked about fighting in Iraq.16
I fought in the first Gulf War. I fought for the17
rights of the man who will respect the rights of18
another man.19
MS. NUMMY: Time.20
CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and finish.21
MR. SCHOBER: And there was a -- what was22
it -- a 1969 Supreme Court case that coined the phrase23
"My rights end where yours begin." To reverse that a24
little bit, I think the rights of the dog hunters end25
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where the rights of the landowners begin. So you must1
respect the rights of the landowners.2
They say dogs can't read property signs.3
They say they do their best to get their dogs4
together. I know of no dog hunting club that will5
impose a fine on a member whose dogs trespass on a6
private landowner's property or a still or stalk7
club's property. I figure if you are serious about8
this issue, impose a fine.9
They talk about shooting dogs. In our10
club, we had members threaten to shoot the dog. The11
president of the club told them, you do and you're out12
of here. So we are respecting people's dogs, but I've13
sat in a stand and had dogs come under me. I've been14
on the road and have been run into a ditch by people15
chasing their dog that are chasing the deer. That's16
got to stop.17
That's a safety issue. I'm not going to18
have a wreck over a man trying to find his dogs or get19
the deer. And real quickly, they talk about the lack20
of complaints. We lease land that formerly was used21
by dog hunters, and the neighbors up there are tickled22
pink from the reports we get. You're not going to get23
complaints from them because they're not having24
problems anymore.25
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So that may, in some part, explain the1
lack of complaints that are coming out of Fayette2
County. Last, but not least, when I did belong to a3
dog hunting club, it was appropriately named because4
we spent more time hunting dogs than we did hunting5
deer. But anyway, that's my comments, and I really6
appreciate it, and I appreciate you letting me finish.7
CHAIRMAN: Thank you.8
MR. HATLEY: I have a question.9
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley, go ahead.10
MR. HATLEY: Yes, sir. Where do you11
reside? I'm sorry. I missed that.12
MR. SCHOBER: I'm in Jefferson County.13
MR. HATLEY: Jefferson County?14
MR. SCHOBER: Yes, sir.15
MR. HATLEY: How long have you been16
hunting in Fayette County?17
MR. SCHOBER: About three years.18
MR. HATLEY: Were you aware or cognizant19
of the fact that there was deer hunting being done by20
dogs prior to you going into a stalk hunting club?21
MR. SCHOBER: Not the first year, no, sir.22
Well, I became aware after I joined the club and paid23
the dues; yes, sir.24
MR. HATLEY: So you actually knew that25
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there was a dog hunting operation going on around you,1
but yet you wanted to lease land in between that or2
around that?3
MR. SCHOBER: No, sir. I joined a club4
that was already established. I don't lease the land.5
I belong to the club that does lease the land.6
MR. HATLEY: My point is you went into an7
area that was dog hunting and to stalk hunt; is that8
correct?9
MR. SCHOBER: Yes, sir.10
MR. HATLEY: Thank you.11
MR. SCHOBER: And if I may follow up, I12
assumed that, as all these dog hunters said that they13
have honored the property lines, so I assumed I14
wouldn't have a problem.15
CHAIRMAN: The next speaker, and we'll16
conclude the speakers, is Bill Woodard.17
MS. NUMMY: Quiet, please.18
MR. WOODARD: My name is Bill Woodard. We19
own five hundred fifty acres in Fayette County. Most20
of this land has been in our family since 1859. We21
have a problem with dog hunters. Every Saturday and22
Sunday, our land is covered up with dogs. We can't23
hunt our own land for the dog hunters. And I'm asking24
you to please ban dog hunting in Fayette County.25
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Thank you.1
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. That2
concludes our speakers. We will take -- the Board3
will take a ten-minute recess. It's now 10:05. We'll4
be back at 10:15.5
(A RECESS WAS TAKEN AT 10:05 A.M. AND THE6
HEARING RECONVENED AT 10:30 A.M.)7
CHAIRMAN: All right. The meeting is8
going to reconvene. This meeting is now back in9
order. The next topic of business is the topic of new10
business. If everybody will find their chairs.11
Again, the next topic of business is new business to12
discuss. Does any of the Board have any new business13
they wish to discuss?14
MR. SELF: I do.15
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Self.16
MR. SELF: Mr. Chairman, I wanted to17
discuss Spanish Mackerel fishing.18
CHAIRMAN: Speak up to the microphone,19
please, sir.20
MR. SELF: It won't come up any further.21
CHAIRMAN: Okay.22
MR. SELF: I've been fishing in the Gulf23
of Mexico for over fifty years, and one of the fish24
that I like to catch is Spanish Mackerel. And I've25
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noticed over the last few years a marked decrease in1
the ability to catch Spanish Mackerel as a2
recreational fisherman. And it's brought me to3
investigate why this is happening.4
And it's -- it's not being experienced by5
just myself, but I've had many, many, many complaints6
of recreational fishermen that they are unable to7
catch Spanish Mackerel in the Gulf anymore, or at8
least in Alabama waters.9
So that leads me to -- to start asking10
some questions of marine resources. They have11
enlightened me a good bit. And this kind of ties back12
to the fact that our neighbors, but primarily Florida,13
has banished net fishing. And this has resulted in14
increased gill net pressure off the coast of Alabama.15
Now, I want to make this clear that,16
according to the National Fisheries, there is no17
shortage of Spanish Mackerel there in the Gulf. But18
records indicate that eighty percent of all Spanish19
Mackerel caught in Alabama by gill netting is20
occurring in Alabama.21
And this can only be attributed to the22
fact that that's where all gill net fishing is23
happening. And for that reason, I would like to make24
a motion to request the Commissioner of Conservation25
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to investigate and study whether commercial over1
harvesting of Spanish Mackerel by gill netting is2
occurring in Alabama and to authorize them to adopt a3
regulation to make it a requirement to permit the4
same.5
CHAIRMAN: Is there a second to the6
motion?7
MR. HATLEY: Second.8
CHAIRMAN: There is a second by9
Mr. Hatley. The motion again is to consider -- for10
the Commissioner to come back and consider the banning11
of gill netting, and the other thing, the regulation12
to control; is that correct, Ross?13
MR. SELF: Yeah, just to see if there14
might need to be some adjustments to -- to the harvest15
of Spanish Mackerel.16
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Commercial quota.17
CHAIRMAN: A quota. Okay. Is there any18
discussion on it? No discussion? All those in favor?19
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")20
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No responses)21
The motion passes. Any other new business by the22
Board?23
MR. LYNCH: I've got some.24
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch?25
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MR. LYNCH: Board members have received a1
letter from Billy Wallace concerning the situation2
that's occurring in Macon County. And I'm going to3
pass this down, start it down with Mr. Hatley and4
start it the other way. Basically, it's a gentleman5
that's high-fenced approximately six hundred fifty or6
seven hundred acres and has built an earthen ramp that7
goes up to the fence with a wooden wall. And then he8
has feed on the inside of the enclosure to where deer9
can come up the ramp, jump down into the enclosure and10
then can't get out.11
I've talked with Corky and with Alan about12
this, and they say that, while this is not the norm13
across the State, that this, as well as some other14
attempts to attract deer and to hold them inside the15
enclosure without a way for them to get out, is going16
on throughout the State, and we currently don't have17
anything on our books to give our enforcement officers18
a way to enforce the situation.19
So I'm asking at the May meeting that they20
present a resolution or passage of new regulation that21
will limit someone attempting to track any animal into22
a high-fenced enclosure without having a way for the23
animal to escape from that enclosure at the May24
hearing.25
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MR. PORTER: I second that.1
CHAIRMAN: Okay. There is a second on2
that. Was that a motion or just a resolution?3
MR. LYNCH: That's just a motion to4
present that.5
CHAIRMAN: Any discussion on that? All6
those in favor?7
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")8
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response)9
Corky, if you all will report at the May meeting on10
that. Okay. Any other new business?11
MR. LYNCH: I have one more.12
CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Lynch.13
MR. LYNCH: As I understand, in addition14
to the bill that Riley Smith spoke to us about, we15
have two other bills that are currently being16
considered by the Alabama Legislature. It is a three17
package. I would like to make a motion that this18
Board recommends to the Alabama State Legislature that19
those three bills are passed as written and that the20
revenue streams that they create go to the intended21
agencies within this department, and that those bills22
are necessary and required for the continued success23
and improvement of those agencies.24
CHAIRMAN: Are you saying nonamended?25
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MR. LYNCH: Yes, and they should be passed1
nonamended, and that the revenue streams themselves2
are kept intact to the agency for which they are3
intended.4
MR. HATLEY: I second the motion.5
CHAIRMAN: He seconds the motion. Is6
there any discussion? No discussion? All in favor.7
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")8
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response)9
Any other new business? Dr. Strickland?10
DR. STRICKLAND: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I11
would like to make a recommendation. I think we all12
realize how important good, clean data statistics is13
in making informed decisions, particularly in managing14
wildlife here in Alabama. One thing I've learned from15
medicine is my observations, when taking care of a16
patient, are not necessarily true all the time, and we17
make decisions based on scientific principles, data18
and statistics.19
We have good data statistics here with our20
Board, but I think we could do better. One of the21
things that I would recommend is taking a look at22
Auburn. Auburn University, they have trained23
professionals that are trained in data collection,24
scientific principles. I think it would be very25
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valuable to help us make informed decisions with1
regard to managing wildlife. I was wondering, do we2
need a motion or a resolution to get Auburn University3
involved?4
CHAIRMAN: Commissioner, would that be5
something you would do if the Board asked you to do6
that?7
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Yeah, we probably8
could look and see. Auburn is doing some work right9
now. We could get some data as to what Auburn might10
suggest that they -- they could add to that research.11
CHAIRMAN: Okay. So could we depend on12
you to take that and come back and review that?13
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: We will look at that14
and see and get with Auburn and see what kind of15
monies we're talking about and how we may be able to16
fund that and bring that back to the Board.17
CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you.18
DR. STRICKLAND: Thank you.19
CHAIRMAN: Any other new business?20
MR. COLES: Yes, Mr. Chairman.21
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coles. Mr. Coles, before22
you get started, because I know you can be23
long-winded, I want to recognize, I want to make sure24
everybody in the room -- Hobbie, where are you?25
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Hobbie, stand up. This is our -- our fairly new, not1
real new anymore, Assistant Commissioner. I want2
everybody to meet him from this area, and, Hobbie,3
know we appreciate you being on board, and, again,4
welcome Hobbie Sealy.5
MR. SEALY: It's great to be here.6
(CLAPPING FROM THE BOARD AND AUDIENCE)7
CHAIRMAN: Now Mr. Coles.8
MR. COLES: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be9
like Elizabeth Taylor told her fourth and fifth10
husbands; I won't keep you long. I have a couple of11
questions for the Wildlife Freshwater Fisheries.12
Mr. Moody, approximately how many deer are killed on13
our management areas, roughly?14
MR. MOODY: I'm drawing a blank. We'll15
give you the sum here in just a minute.16
MR. COLES: My next question while he's17
looking --18
MR. MOODY: The State is harvesting, I19
can't give you the exact number; about three or four20
thousand. If you would like, I'll pull up the exact21
number.22
MR. COLES: No, that's all right. Just23
give me a guesstimate on that management area. Three24
or four thousand?25
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CHAIRMAN: Please identify yourself.1
MR. HAYDEN: David Hayden. I'm Assistant2
Chief of the Wildlife section. Off the top of my3
head, I would say forty-five hundred to five thousand.4
MR. COLES: How much of our research money5
or Pittman-Robinson money is going to research at the6
management areas, approximately?7
MR. MOODY: Very little for research, you8
know, a lot for operations.9
MR. COLES: Do you have any -- can you10
give me any figures as to how much money we got from11
Pittman-Robinson last year?12
MR. MOODY: Ballpark, three and-a-half13
million.14
MR. COLES: Three and-a-half million? Was15
any of the Pittman-Robinson money used for game and16
animal research?17
MR. MOODY: Yes.18
MR. COLES: Approximately how much?19
MR. MOODY: I can't tell you right off the20
top of my head.21
MR. COLES: Any money, or research money,22
used for game, animal data collection as far as after23
harvest?24
MR. MOODY: Yes.25
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MR. COLES: Well, Mr. Chairman, I have a1
-- I have a motion that I would like to make. We sit2
up here and make decisions at each meeting based on3
the information that we have. And at this present4
time, I don't feel that we have adequate information.5
So I would like to make a motion that this6
Conservation Advisory Board be furnished a detailed7
report for the past three years of any8
Pittman-Robinson Act funds and Dingle-Johnson Act9
funds that the Conservation Department has received.10
And I would also like this report to11
include what, if any, research funds, what they've12
been used for and the amount of money for each project13
and who did that research. And I would like to add14
that each Board member should receive this report15
within the next fifteen days.16
CHAIRMAN: Is there a second to the17
motion?18
DR. STRICKLAND: Second.19
CHAIRMAN: A second. On the motion, the20
motion is, again, I would like to make the motion that21
this Conservation Supervisory Board be furnished a22
detailed report for the past three years of any23
Pittman-Robinson Act funds and Dingle-Johnson Act24
funds that the Conservation Department has received.25
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I would also like this report to include any research1
funds that have been used -- which have been used, for2
the amount of money for each project and who did the3
research. Each Board member should receive this4
report in the next fifteen days. Any discussion?5
Yes, sir, Mr. Porter.6
MR. PORTER: This might be considered an7
amendment, but it seems to me that also included in8
that should be some explanation about how you can --9
those monies are somewhat restricted. Give the Board10
members an idea as to what they -- what they can be11
used for.12
CHAIRMAN: Would you be opposed to that13
being within your motion, Mr. Porter, of how that14
money is being used?15
MR. PORTER: The only question I have to16
the Department is the fifteen days, is that something17
that could be reasonably collected and delivered18
within fifteen days?19
MR. MOODY: Yes.20
CHAIRMAN: Any other discussion on this21
motion? No other discussion? The motion, again, is22
as read except added that, also, how all these monies23
can be used with wildlife, Mr. Porter?24
MR. PORTER: No, just a -- just an25
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explanation of the Pittman-Robinson funds and the1
Dingle funds. They are restricted to certain uses;2
just an explanation of how they -- how they can be3
spent.4
CHAIRMAN: Very good. All those in favor?5
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")6
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response.)7
The motion passes. Any other new business?8
MR. HATLEY: I'd like to make a motion --9
CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.10
MR. HATLEY: -- to approve all the11
Department of Conservation regulations since the last12
approval.13
CHAIRMAN: There is a motion. Is there a14
second to approve all regulations since the last --15
what was that?16
MR. HATLEY: Since the last approval.17
CHAIRMAN: -- since the last approval.18
Any discussion? No discussion? All those in favor?19
(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")20
CHAIRMAN: All opposed? None? Any other21
new business?22
DR. MAY: I have a motion.23
CHAIRMAN: Dr. May.24
DR. MAY: I'd like to add the north zone,25
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207208 to read fifteen a day, fifteen in possession,1
sixty days, split season, September the 22nd to2
October the 13th, twenty-two days; October the 27th to3
November the 18th, twenty-three days; December the4
15th to December the 29th, fifteen days, a total of5
sixty days.6
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is that the entire7
motion?8
DR. MAY: Yes.9
CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there a second?10
MR. PORTER: Second.11
MR. JOHNSON: Second the motion.12
CHAIRMAN: There is a motion and a second.13
The motion is concerning dove season as read by14
Dr. May. Is there any discussion on this motion?15
There being no discussion on the motion, the motion is16
--17
MR. LYNCH: I've got one.18
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch.19
MR. LYNCH: This motion he just made, I'm20
sorry, I was looking for it in my package. It21
wouldn't open until September 22nd?22
DR. MAY: Correct.23
MR. LYNCH: What was the season last year?24
DR. MAY: It opened the 15th.25
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CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch.1
MR. HATLEY: Why are we going back and2
forth?3
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley, if you will address4
the Chair, please, sir. Yes, sir, Mr. Hatley.5
MR. HATLEY: Why are we swapping dates6
constantly on this season? This is the third year7
we've done this.8
CHAIRMAN: Dr. May?9
DR. MAY: The Department came back and10
recommended opening it the 8th of September. I feel11
the 8th is too early. We know young doves are not12
mature for twenty days. July and August are the true13
peek months of hatching. So if you open the 8th, the14
last hatching in August, it's going to be eight days15
old. I don't think it's biologically correct to open16
that early, plus I have too many complaints about the17
weather and the heat.18
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley.19
MR. HATLEY: Well, I just noticed Georgia,20
they open the 1st of September, and Mississippi does,21
too. And if we're going to go back all the way to the22
22nd, I just wondered why we keep vacillating between23
all these dates.24
DR. MAY: Well, the question to ask is why25
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are they opening early. That's the commercial1
hunters' preference. I don't feel we should compete2
with other states.3
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Porter.4
MR. PORTER: Mr. Moultrie, Tennessee opens5
the 1st of September, too.6
CHAIRMAN: I believe, Gary and Corky, do7
you all know, doesn't every other state around us open8
for the Labor Day weekend? Is that correct?9
MR. MOODY: It's very early in September.10
I don't know if it's Labor Day.11
CHAIRMAN: I believe it's on the 1st, but12
I'm not positive about that. But I think you're13
right, Mr. Porter. Okay. Any other discussions?14
MR. SMITH: Yes.15
CHAIRMAN: Mr. Smith?16
MR. SMITH: One of the reasons to go back17
to what Mr. Hatley is saying here, if we moved it from18
-- back and forth was that we had testimony before the19
group here, before the Board, people were concerned20
that if you move it too late in the season, these21
folks in the other states do get a head start. It was22
at the hunters' request that we move it back to the23
8th or thereabouts in the year there. I mean, that's24
part of the explanation.25
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MR. HATLEY: I think so.1
CHAIRMAN: Pardon, Mr. Hatley? If you2
would speak into the microphone, Mr. Hatley. The3
court reporter has a harder time if you don't do that.4
MR. HATLEY: I'm not going to worry about5
dove season.6
CHAIRMAN: Is there any other discussion7
on the motion? Okay. The motion is as Dr. May read.8
All those in favor?9
(MOST BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")10
CHAIRMAN: All opposed?11
MR. LYNCH: Aye.12
CHAIRMAN: Let the record show one13
opposed, Mr. Lynch. The motion carries. Any other14
new business? Any other new business? The next order15
of business is that, being there is no other new16
business, is the announcement of the May Advisory17
Board meeting will be held on May 19, 2007 in North18
Alabama. Commissioner, do we have a location yet?19
COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: We do not.20
ASSISTANT CHIEF: Would you ask the Board21
to hang around for a second?22
CHAIRMAN: That will be fine.23
DR. STRICKLAND: I suggest Huntsville,24
Alabama.25
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MR. LAWLEY: We were hoping to have the1
next meeting at Guntersville State Park, but it2
doesn't look like the park is going to be complete in3
time for it. So right now Robin is searching very4
vigorous
Recommended