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THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES3

WILDLIFE AND FRESHWATER FISHERIES DIVISION

Meeting of March 10, 20074

FIVE RIVERS DELTA RESOURCE CENTER30945 Five Rivers Boulevard5

Spanish Fort, Alabama

6

Before the Conservation Advisory Board7

Beginning at 9:00 A.M.

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APPEARANCES:

9

BOARD MEMBERS:

10

Mr. Dan L. Moultrie-Chairman

P.O. Box 18811

Verbena, AL 36091

Congressional District 612

Mr. Louis W. Coles13

6207 County Road 625

Enterprise, AL 3633014


15

Dr. A. Wayne May

188 County Road 20316Eutaw, AL 35462


Mr. James W. Porter, II18

215 NO. Richard Arrington Jr. Blvd.

10th Floor19

Birmingham, AL 35203


Mr. Bill Hatley21

639 Estate Drive

Gulf Shores, AL 3654222Congressional District 1

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Mr. Gaines Smith24

AL Coop Extension Service

109 Duncan Hall25

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Commissioner M. Barnett Lawley, Secretary

Department of Conservation2

P.O. Box 301450

Montgomery, AL 36130-14503

Mr. Ross M. Self410419 Highway 180 West

Gulf Shores, AL 365425


6

Mr. Johnny M. Johnson

1018 54th Street East7

Tuscaloosa, AL 35405


Mr. W. Grant Lynch9

P.O. Box 777

Talladega, AL 3516110


11

Dr. Warren Strickland

930 Franklin Street12

Huntsville, AL 35801


Mr. George Harbin14

1177 Elliott Road

Gadsden, AL 35904-691015


Mr. David Dean17

Deputy Legal Counsel for the

Alabama Department of Conservation and18

Natural Resources

64 North Union Street19

Montgomery, AL 36130

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21

Ms. Robin Nummy22Alabama Department of Conservation and

Natural Resources23

64 North Union Street

Montgomery, AL 3613024

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Also Present: Corky Pugh1

Gary Moody

David Hayden2

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I N D E X P A G E6

Invocation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47

Presenting of Award . . . . . . . . . . 68

Introduction of Advisory Board. . . . . 79

Proposed Changes. . . . . . . . . . . . 910

Motions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1311

Proposed Changes. . . . . . . . . . . . 1512

New Business. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6113

Meeting Adjourned . . . . . . . . . . . 7814

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CHAIRMAN: Let the March 10, 2007 meeting20

of the Conservation Advisory Board come to order. At21

this time I'd like to welcome everybody to Five22

Rivers, and the Board is glad that you all are able to23

be here today.24

I would also like to recognize past25

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Commissioner Riley Smith. The Commissioner and I both1

-- I'm sure he's going to recognize you also. Riley,2

it's good to see you as always. Glad to have you3

here. The -- the invocation at this time will be4

given by Mr. Johnny Johnson. Mr. Johnson.5

MR. JOHNSON: Let us pray. Dear Heavenly6

Father, we thank you for your guidance and leadership7

concerning your will and purpose for our State's8

Conservation Advisory Board meeting today. We pray9

that our meeting will be conducted in a manner that10

will bring honor and glory to you.11

Lord, help us to realize and make room for12

the ideas and opinions of others that are different13

from ours. We thank you for your love. Lord, we pray14

that you would bring righteous leaders into the15

forefront of decision-making in the United States and16

give Your wisdom to each of them.17

Destroy the strongholds and plans of the18

enemy in this country and for this country. Please19

protect our military leaders and troops wherever they20

are. We partition you, Lord, for their safety.21

Father, provide for and protect their families. Pour22

out Your piece upon our nation. Through Your Holy23

Spirit, comfort the lonely and strengthen the weary.24

Please be with us as we return to our homes25

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today. Thank you, Father. In Jesus' name we pray,1

amen.2

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. For3

the next order of business, I'd like to call on4

Commissioner Barnett Lawley to introduce the5

Conservation Advisory Board.6

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Good morning.7

Before I do that, I want to thank Jim Griggs in the8

Lands Division for Five Rivers, this facility in which9

we're meeting. We're very excited about it. It's the10

Delta Resource Center, and it's getting a -- it's very11

popular in the Baldwin/Mobile County areas.12

It's getting a lot of use, and we haven't13

even officially opened, but we appreciate their14

efforts and what they've done to allow us to meet here15

today.16

Before I allow everybody to introduce17

themselves, I'd like to call on Bobby Huffaker and18

Sergeant Ronald Harris. If you all would come up here19

for just a minute.20

On May 21, 2006, Sergeant Ronald Harris21

stopped a boat on Lake Harding for a safety22

inspection. After completing that stop and issuing a23

citation for equipment violation, Sergeant Harris24

observed the boat leave the scene and strike a wake to25

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As we do in every meeting, we're going to allow, start1

with Mr. Hatley on the end to tell you who he is and2

what district he represents.3

MR. HATLEY: My name is Bill Hatley. I4

represent South Alabama District 1.5

MR. SELF: My name is Ross Self, and I6

also represent District 1.7

MR. SMITH: I'm Grant Smith, at large,8

State wide.9

MR. LYNCH: Grant Lynch, District 3.10

MR. STRICKLAND: Warren Strickland,11

Congressional District 5. That's Northern Alabama.12

MR. COLES: Louis Coles, Congressional13

District 2.14

MR. PORTER: Jim Porter, Congressional15

District 6.16

MR. JOHNSON: Johnny Johnson,17

Congressional District 7.18

DR. MAY: Wayne May, Congressional19

District 7.20

MR. HARBIN: George Harbin, District 4.21

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: And, of course, Dan22

Moultrie, our Chairman. We appreciate you all being23

here.24

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lawley. The25

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of commercial gill nets around the 4th of July holiday1

for the next five years.2

And I recommend on that, for that holiday,3

that for 2007, the five-day closure will start at4

12:01 A.M. on July 3, 2007 through 12:01 on July 9,5

2007, which will be a five-day closure.6

Also, I propose a change to 220-3-.03, use7

of nets and harvest of Mullet and 220-2-.42(4)(b), use8

and possession of certain nets, wildlife and9

freshwater fisheries areas, specifically increasing10

the mesh size for the taking of Mullet for roe and11

food fish. The mesh size should be increased from an12

inch and seven-eighths knot to knot to two inches knot13

to knot for roe Mullet and would be increased from one14

and three-eights inches knot to knot to one and15

one-half inches knot to knot for food fish.16

The next would be a proposed change to17

220-3.03, saltwater fish creel, bag, possession:18

Change recreational bag limit and commercial size19

limit for Red Snapper to conform with federal20

regulations.21

I believe at this time the recreational22

creel limit in federal waters will be two per person23

and the commercial size limit will be thirteen inches.24

The main reason for this change would be just to agree25

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with the federal regulations.1

Another -- another change to that same2

regulation would be saltwater fish creel, bag,3

possession and size limits should change Vermillion4

Snapper, the minimum size limit, to conform with5

federal regulations.6

And at this time, the Vermillion Snapper7

size limit will be reduced from eleven inches to ten8

inches, and this is something the feds have done.9

They say we've got too many Vermillion Snapper.10

You know, I can't question about that, but11

they're reducing -- reducing the size limit. So we12

need to amend our regulation just to go along with13

them.14

Another one to that same 220-3-.03 is15

saltwater fish creel, bag, possession and size limits.16

This requires that any vessel or individual required17

to possess a federal permit to harvest or retain18

marine aquatic species must possess such permit to19

possess or land such in Alabama.20

Then I think this is the last change21

proposed for 220-3-.25. That's the commercial taking22

and landing of Red Snapper. Change the regulation23

language to conform with new federal regulations that24

establish individual quota -- quota allocations -- I'm25

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sorry -- individual quota allocations for the1

commercial Red Snapper fishery. And this is again to2

make Alabama's regs to conform with the federal3

regulations. That's all I have.4

CHAIRMAN: Is there a motion to accept5

those?6

MR. HATLEY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to7

make a motion that we adopt all the recommendations of8

Mr. Self.9

CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?10

MR. SMITH: I second that.11

CHAIRMAN: There's a motion and a second12

that we adopt the regulations just read by Mr. Self.13

Is there any discussion on these? (No response) If14

no discussion, the motion is again to adopt these15

regulations, these proposals just read by Board member16

Self. All those in favor.17

(ALL BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")18

CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response)19

No opposed? The motion passes.20

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I also want to21

welcome past Commissioner Riley Smith. I don't see22

him out there right now. (Pointed out) Oh, okay. I23

appreciate you being with us today.24

MR. SMITH: Thank you.25

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COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Now I'll call on1

Corky Pugh, the Director of Wildlife and Freshwater2

Fisheries.3

MR. PUGH: There are several revisions to4

the recommended season and bag limits presented at the5

last Board meeting on page five. (Court reporter6

asked Mr. Pugh to speak up.) I'm sorry. There are7

two revisions for the season and bag limit8

recommendations.9

If you look at page five, Lawrence and10

Winston Counties should have been in those hunters11

choice dates; December the 27th through January 1st.12

And on page twelve -- and this is something that was13

done at the recommendation of one of the Board14

members, I believe -- under, "Fox, Coyote and Feral15

Swine, Legal Arms and Ammunition," there's a16

clarification for no buckshot being used in shotguns17

during stalk gun, deer season only.18

CHAIRMAN: Is there a motion that we adopt19

those recommendations at this time?20

MR. HATLEY: So moved.21

MR. HARBIN: I'll make the motion.22

CHAIRMAN: Is there a second?23

UNKNOWN BOARD MEMBER: Second.24

CHAIRMAN: There is a motion and a second25

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to the proposals as read by Corky Pugh are adopted to1

those regulations. Is there any discussion? (No2

response) Being no discussion --3

MR. COLES: There is some discussion.4

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coles.5

MR. COLES: Are we adopting all of the6

seasons here?7

CHAIRMAN: The ones just so read, just so8

read.9

MR. COLES: Just so read?10

CHAIRMAN: There being no further11

discussion, there's a motion and a second to pass that12

these proposals be put into regulations. All those in13

favor?14


CHAIRMAN: All opposed. (No response.)16

The motion passes.17

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: That's all I have,18

Daniel.19

CHAIRMAN: The next order of business is20

the public hearing. When your name is called, please21

go to the microphone and give your name and the22

subject you wish to speak upon.23

DR. MAY: Mr. Moultrie, may I interrupt?24

CHAIRMAN: Yes.25

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DR. MAY: I have a motion on the dove1

season.2

CHAIRMAN: We can do it now or as new3

business. Commissioner, which would you rather do?4

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: I think new business5

is when it should be brought up. That's when you6

intended to bring up the bag limits?7

MR. PUGH: Yes.8

CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right. I'll remind9

you at the end that you may only speak at the time10

that you're called upon to speak. Any interference11

with the speaker will not be tolerated. Robin, do you12

have our list?13

MS. NUMMY: Yes. There is one in front of14

you.15

CHAIRMAN: First to speak will be Riley B.16

Smith.17

MR. SMITH: Good morning. I'm Riley18

Smith. I'm President of the Alabama Wildlife19

Federation, and I'm speaking to you today on behalf of20

the Federation. Before I do that I have a personal21

comment. Commissioner, you, Jim Griggs, and the rest22

of the staff of the Department have done a magnificent23

thing here. You should be very proud.24

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank you.25

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MR. SMITH: I think this is going to be1

such a tremendous jump in all points for ingress and2

egress into the Delta, and it's just -- it's good.3

We're very proud.4

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Thank you.5

MR. SMITH: I want to focus on one thing6

today, and I see you all have a full plate, as you7

usually do, so I won't be too long. But as I'm sure8

everybody is aware, there is public legislation for a9

hunting licenses increase.10

I think all of you also are very aware how11

direly this is needed. The Wildlife and Freshwater12

Fishery Division is going to be in very rough shape if13

it's not passed. The Alabama Wildlife Federation14

strongly supports this legislation.15

We have talked at length with Commissioner16

Lawley and members of the Department and Corky, and17

understand how critical it is that this legislation18

pass at this time.19

I've had a little experience now with the20

Legislature. And a revenue measure, even as one like21

this that is needed so badly, will meet some22

resistance. There's always somebody that says, okay,23

they've got plenty of money and we don't need to do24

this. This is not going to be an easy bill to pass.25

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I know the Commissioner and our Executive1

Director met with leadership of both Houses and I2

think we've got the support of those leaders. But3

anything can happen when you get on the floor.4

Again, a revenue measure is tough. It5

needs to be clean. It needs to go in there as it has6

been presented, and it doesn't need any real7

cut-and-paste efforts from the floor.8

I would ask you today, because I know that9

the Legislature values the opinion of this Board, to10

pass a resolution and forward it to the Legislature in11

both Houses that the Conservation Advisory Board12

strongly supports the legislation in its present form13

and asks that no amendments be allowed to this14

legislation.15

I think if it gets bogged down, especially16

on the floor, if it gets bogged down with a bunch of17

amendments, you'll lose this bill. You won't be able18

to pass it. And, again, this is -- I was aware of19

this issue when I was Commissioner. It was a problem20

back then, but we saw it coming. The Commissioner is21

dealing with it.22

If you don't pass this now -- this is the23

first session of the next four years -- if you don't24

pass this now, you probably won't pass it. So I would25

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ask that you all would be -- consider a motion to urge1

the Legislature to pass the bills in their present2

form and resist any amendments. Thank you so much.3

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Smith. The next4

speaker will be Mike Colquett.5

MR. COLQUETT: I'm Mike Colquett. I'm6

here today on behalf of the State Chapter of the NWTF.7

It's my understanding at your February meeting it was8

reported that we had officially endorsed a turkey9

tagging system. I'm here today to let you know that10

that is not a correct statement. We discussed it, but11

no official action has been taken, so we have not12

officially endorsed that.13

CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. The next14

speaker will be Mr. Don Knight.15

MR. KNIGHT: I'm Don Knight. I'm speaking16

at this time on -- a lot of folks have just asked me17

to speak on the three-buck limit. We're officially18

against that. But before I start on that, we'd like19

to also recommend that the House Bill 256 on boat20

registration also be included in that recommendation21

from the Board. And we would also like to recommend22

that all hunters and fishermen get out and support,23

call your Legislature to get this increase.24

We know it's needed, and we want to25

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year hunting license if you do that.1

We have a situation in a club I hunt with2

where we bring the deer in, cut them up, divide the3

meat and put it in coolers. How are we going to leave4

with that without being stopped and checked and how5

are we going to prove that we didn't kill that deer as6

a buck or as partial meat?7

I mean, there is so much here that is8

unenforceable. And, quite frankly, our enforcement9

officers are cut so short now. We think it would take10

so much away from the enforcement of other things11

that's needed that we just don't see how it would work12

at this point. That's what I had on that. Thank you.13

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Knight. The14

next speaker will be Keith Lynch.15

MR. LYNCH: I'm Keith Lynch from Conecuh16

County. It's my understanding that if this Board goes17

through with the three-buck limit that it's got its18

good and its bad.19

But we're in a situation where we have a20

later rut season. I don't know why we do. I would21

like to see the season extended two weeks if possible.22

Most of our deer are -- the bigger bucks are not being23

seen until the season goes out, and too many small24

deer are being killed. Thank you.25

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CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Lynch. The next1

speaker will be Rick Yeager.2

MR. YEAGER: It's good to see you, Dan.3

It's good to see the Board members. I appreciate you4

all hosting this event and allowing us to come up here5

and talk with you.6

I've got several issues to go over, so7

I'll just briefly touch on them. Robin has made a8

copy of this so that she can get it to each one of9

you.10

One of the first subjects that I want to11

go over is -- are since they were talking about the12

three-buck limit, the three-buck limit is a very good13

program. Tennessee has done for it for years. They14

did a tagging system. Every processor in the State is15

aware of it and the people police their own out there.16

If they see somebody killing four or five17

bucks, they turn them in. But the Tennessee deer have18

increased in numbers on the Boone & Crockett, Kroll19

and Pope&Young scales. Some of that information is in20

documents for you guys. It also shows that since21

1995, basically, in Alabama, or before 1995, Alabama22

was the lowest rank state on Pope&Young, Kroll or23

Boone & Crockett.24

Since 1995, we've continued to drop down25

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to place forty-three. I think Delaware is below us.1

But the three-point rule on one side will increase the2

maturity of the bucks in the State and setting a3

three-buck limit is not too stringent. It will4

increase the people to shoot bucks, not that those are5

an over-population situation in a lot of places. In6

our place, I guess we're running about a two-buck to7

one-doe population. So we've cut back on shooting any8

does until we get that population up.9

But we've got a bunch of one-thirty and10

one-forty and one-sixty class bucks running around in11

there. The rut problem that we had this year, it was12

too dang hot. You can't control Mother Nature. In13

December, we had ruts the second week, two and-a-half14

-- about a week and-a-half, and then we had ruts in15

January the second and third week, and it was all16

pretty much at nighttime.17

We had bucks running through the camp18

chasing does. It was quite funny, but it was a19

terrible season, really, for harvesting nice bucks20

because they did stay in the swamps and didn't run21

until night until it got below that forty degree22

temperature. That's when they run.23

Supplemental feeding is something that24

I want to bring up. It's not just a request. It's a25

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requirement. If you notice driving down here from1

upstate or since you live here, or if you live in the2

South or Southeast, you notice that everything is pine3

trees.4

I don't know about you guys, but eating5

deer that eats nothing but briars and pine trees is6

probably not real good. I've killed deer in areas7

before we started getting planting systems in, and the8

deer meat, of course, is not real good.9

When you lease land, your landowners only10

give you a certain amount.11

MS. NUMMY: Time.12

MR. YEAGER: Are you cutting me off?13

MS. NUMMY: Three minutes.14

CHAIRMAN: We'll give you a chance to wind15

it up if you want.16

MR. YEAGER: Okay. Thank you very much,17

Dan. Supplemental feeding has become a very big18

requirement because of the amount of hardwood that has19

been harvested out of the State.20

The land that you lease, the land that21

you're able to lease, you're only given a certain22

amount of space for plants. Out of a fifteen hundred23

acre section, we're planting twenty acres, and it's24

being mowed down to the ground. So we have to do25

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supplemental feeding.1

We had a program this year, instead of2

stopping at season, we ran three stations across the3

property. And on camera and film we've got the deer4

that will go to it, that will eat for about five5

minutes, and then they go on to do their browsing.6

They're not going to spend all their time at feeders.7

And if it was implemented, I would suggest8

that it would be for quality deer management, plus to9

have a minimum of three or four points on one side10

rule with limits on the bucks. I can't cover anything11

else because Robin is going to shoot me.12

CHAIRMAN: But there's a copy of all that13

information for the Board to look at?14

MR. YEAGER: Yes, sir. I gave a copy of15

it to Robin.16

MS. NUMMY: I've got it, and I'll send it17

out to you all.18

CHAIRMAN: Okay. That will be great.19

We'll receive that and we appreciate your comments.20

MR. YEAGER: Thank you very much for21

having me.22

CHAIRMAN: The next speaker will be23

Mr. James Butler.24

MR. BUTLER: It's nice to meet you all. I25

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want to bring up the situation about the dogs. Right1

now we're in a situation where it's unsafe to travel2

down the road. You don't know when you're going to3

hit a deer. You know, it's happened to me this year.4

I had a sixty-five hundred dollar claim, and I feel if5

we do away with the season, the deer population will6

grow until it's just going to make the insurance7

companies get involved in this.8

So if we can keep the gaming laws just9

like they are right now, that's all we're asking, you10

know. And if landowners and other people have11

legitimate complaints, let's investigate those crimes,12

ticket those people, arrest them if that's what they13

need.14

We're taking a small amount of population.15

It's just going to ruin it for a larger part of the16

people that hunt. So a lot of dog hunters aren't as17

bad as what people think they are. We obey all the18

game laws. The three-deer game limit, it's just going19

to be hard to enforce because people are going to do20

their own field processing. Everybody don't take them21

to the processors.22

What we need to try to do is leave things23

like they are right now, and if they need to be24

investigated on any kind of complaints by landowners25

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and stuff, let's pursue that instead of just trying to1

vote it out for the minority instead of the majority.2

That's all I have.3

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Butler. The4

next speaker will be Tim Couch.5

MS. NUMMY: Quiet, please.6

MR. COUCH: Good morning, everybody. My7

name is Tim Couch. I'm a landowner in Fayette County.8

I hunt deer with dogs. I'm here today to ask9

everybody to consider leaving dog hunting in Fayette10

County. I know there has been some complaints from11

landowners, but I know for a fact that there are some12

outlawed dog hunters out there. But everybody is not13

an outlaw.14

I've talked to some people in Marion15

County, Lamar County where dog hunting has been16

banned. They tell me they've still got the same17

outlaws they had when dog hunting was in. The18

outlaws, just because you get rid of the good hunters,19

the only thing that does, that opens up the whole20

county. You've got no clubs to control part of it.21

You still have got the same outlaw hunters22

that have got the whole county to themselves. That's23

the point I want to make today. I thank you for your24

time.25

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CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley.1

MR. HATLEY: Mr. Couch, how much land do2

you have on the old Liberty hunting ground?3

MR. COUCH: Somewhere around thirty-five4

hundred acres.5

MR. HATLEY: About how many members do you6

have?7

MR. COUCH: We have forty -- I believe8

it's forty-two -- or forty-seven.9

MR. HATLEY: And you've got a good hunting10

club, it sounds like, evidently. Do you -- do you --11

you say, do you know these outlaw hunters?12

MR. COUCH: Well, I mean, I know they're13

out there, you know, because I have problems myself on14

my personal land. But, you know, I don't want to take15

away from everybody what -- what -- because of, you16

know, ten or twelve guys, you know. And I'm sure that17

I know I've heard complaints out of Tuscaloosa County.18

I don't personally know the people, but, you know,19

I've dog hunted all my life. There is always a few20

out there that want to cause problems that don't lease21

up enough land to dog hunt.22

You can't blame everybody because of what23

-- a few people that don't want to get out and do24

right. It's kind of like you've got a man that wants25

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to drive continuously drunk. You can't take1

everybody's driver's license because you've got a man2

that wants to drive drunk.3

MR. HATLEY: Thank you.4

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. The next5

speaker will be Mr. John Dover.6

MR. DOVER: Good morning. My name is John7

Dover. I'm from Berry, Alabama, in Fayette County.8

The first thing is I'd like to thank the Board members9

who came to our meeting there in Berry on Sunday,10

February the 18th that Mr. Cook was gracious enough to11

hold for us all in the county.12

I'd like to thank Don Knight with the13

Alabama dog hunters for also attending. There was14

good representation of both sides. A lot of views15

were expressed, and we had -- we had the tool shed16

packed out the doors, what is known as the equipment17

shed.18

A lot of people from all over the county,19

a lot of people weren't aware of the problems they20

were having in one location of the county. It was21

like Mr. Couch said; you have outlaw hunters every22

place you go. I understand we were short on law23

enforcement, especially on the game wardens.24

On behalf of the Fayette County dog25

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hunters, I would like to say we would like to support1

the referendum here and legislation to increase the2

hunting licenses and get some more game wardens, get3

more game wardens and get rid of the outlaws that we4

have within Fayette County.5

But I think it's a localized problem. We6

have a small county; in the 2000 census, eighteen7

thousand four hundred ninety-five people living in8

Fayette County. I've presented Robin here with a9

petition from Fayette County and I'd like the Board to10

see that it has fifteen hundred names. I got some11

more this morning in support, you know, of leaving12

things the way they are in Fayette County. So these13

are landowners and these are citizens. We're a small14

community and a small county.15

There's more people in Northport than16

there are in all Fayette County. So, you know, I17

think that we can work together. And when we get18

together in the same fashion as we did in February and19

talk to each other, that we can resolve a lot more20

than somebody resolving it for us, just people getting21

together to resolve it amongst ourselves. I'd like to22

thank you all for your time this morning.23

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Dover. The next24

speaker will be Steven Dover.25

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MR. DOVER: Yes, sir. My name is Steven1

Dover. I'm from Northport, Alabama. I'm a landowner2

and leaseholder in both Fayette and Tuscaloosa3

Counties.4

In regards to the complaints that have to5

do specifically with dog hunting in Fayette and6

Tuscaloosa Counties, Officer Sanford told me that, as7

far as the northern part of the County, there were8

hardly any complaints. That was his area. The next9

day I received a call saying that there were three10

complaints in Tuscaloosa County. Specifically they11

were with dog hunting and there were four arrests.12

In Tuscaloosa County, as of the year 2000,13

there was a hundred sixty-eight thousand people. I14

must respectfully submit the old adage that if there15

is no problem, don't fix it. I didn't say that quite16

right. I know we all know what I meant.17

In Fayette County, there were twenty-three18

complaints. Fourteen had to do with hunting on19

private property without a permit; nine had to do with20

hunting from a public road. So I say with these21

lawbreakers there ought to be no tolerance for them.22

Our laws are not unreasonable, so let's put it on23

them.24

All right. Man has hunted with dogs as25

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long as man and dogs have existed together. I ask1

that you please do not restrict dog hunting because of2

the complaints of those who either don't like it or3

those that have moved here and wish to change the way4

we have traditionally hunted for hundreds of years.5

I'm in favor of raising the hunting6

license fees so we might have more officers in the7

field. For those who are anti-dog hunting, I ask that8

you not be so quick to do away with our freedom to9

hunt with dogs. If you've got a problem with dog10

hunters, talk with them; be respectful. Be willing to11

show the same respect that we give in return. Act12

like big boys and always remember the young hunters13

are watching us. We must set a good example for them.14

There is room in the woods for all of us. Thank you.15


speaker will be Phillip Kizzire.17

MR. KIZZIRE: Good morning. I'm Phillip18

Kizzire from Fayette County, landowner and resident of19

Fayette County. I'm here to speak about the dog20

hunting issue. I've been a dog hunter from the time I21

was a little boy with my father. I've got a son22

that's fourteen years old that enjoys every minute of23

his dog hunting.24

When you go hunting -- I belong to a stalk25

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hunting club also and a dog hunting club. My son1

enjoys stalk hunting, but there's not as much2

relationship between me and him with stalk hunting3

because you're sitting there being quiet, being still4

in a tree.5

If we go dog hunting, we gather up6

everyone, draw our stands. There's a lot of7

relationship between the grown-ups and my son and a8

lot of other people in my club that bring their9

children with us. I think this is something that we10

need to leave as it is right now in Fayette County.11

If you do have a problem with our club or any other12

club, please contact us. You know, let the people of13

Fayette County contact us. We'll try to deal with14

those problems and get those problems straightened out15

without somebody taking a right from us that we've had16

for years. That's all I've got to say. Thank you.17

CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The next speaker18

will be Ms. Susan Morrow.19

MS. MORROW: Good morning, Chairman and20

Board members. I'm here to speak to you today about21

dog hunting in Cochtaw County. My husband and I are22

members of Scott Mountain Hunting Club. We had two23

dogs that were shot this year. Here is one of the24

collars that we found. We did not find its body.25

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You have some pictures of some dogs that1

I found in the woods that have been shot. They're not2

our dogs. I don't know whose they are, but they're3

not ours. Our first dog, we went and we was tracking4

him. We spent a lot of money to get our dogs back. I5

have my own tracking system. My husband has his own6

tracking system.7

We try to help all the other dog hunters8

track theirs. We can track their collars. Everybody9

tries to help everybody get their dogs up. We want10

our dogs back. And we have a problem with stalk11

hunters coming to the club and telling us that they12

heard dogs barking. They don't know whose dogs they13

are. They didn't see the dogs. But if it happens14

again, they are going to get petitions up and dog15

hunting is going to be stopped.16

Well, as we tell them that we have17

tracking systems, we're trying to get the dogs back;18

if they can help us come up with another way that will19

help us get our dogs away from them, fine; we will do20

it. We're not the only dog hunting club there.21

Then we went and talked with some people22

where we was tracking one of our dogs, and all of a23

sudden it quit tracking. So -- and they told us that24

they had not seen it. And the night before dog season25

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went out, January the 14th, we was tracking a dog that1

this collar was on. And we picked up one of our dogs,2

one that we had just bought, spent a hundred fifty3

dollars on it. We picked it up first, because this4

dog here I had raised from a baby.5

And this dog would stay and he would come6

when we would call him. And when we got the other dog7

loaded up to take it back to the camp, we went back to8

get the other dog, no beep, no signal, whatsoever.9

The next day my husband and son -- it was raining.10

They were out looking, calling him. You could call11

him by name and he would come if he was close.12

But when we was tracking him that night,13

the last track that we had on him, he was deep in the14

woods and he was between Rock Gap Road and the Larry15

McKenzie Camp.16

And the next day my husband was on one17

side of Rabbit Creek Road, and he was on the bridge18

looking in the water and he seen this. And he waded19

in the creek and got this collar.20

My son went and asked Bud Robinson on the21

land could he have permission to go on his land and22

hunt our dog's body so we could give him a proper23

burial. And he told him he wouldn't give permission24

but that he was leaving, and whatever happened while25

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he was gone he had no control over. And he got in his1

truck and he left.2

My son walked so far, and he could not3

find him. And I reported all of these incidents to4

Montgomery. I called District 5 the first time. They5

wanted to know why we was calling them about a dog6

getting shot. That's where I think that Chochtaw7

County is supposed to report to. And then when this8

one happened, I called Montgomery because I think it9

was a holiday.10

MS. NUMMY: Time.11

CHAIRMAN: Susan, please continue. I want12

you to continue. Go ahead.13

MS. MORROW: I called Montgomery, and I14

told them what the situation was. And the night15

before there had been another dog that had been shot,16

and a hunter had heard this dog. They heard the shot17

and they heard the dog crying. And then they heard18

another shot and they heard a truck leave. It was not19

on our property. It was on some property that was20

bordering ours. And Montgomery had Vince Wood,21

the game warden, call me. And he told me if we had22

any evidence, if we found our dog's body, to please23

call him and he would go in there.24

And he told me that he would go and talk25

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to the people, the clubs, about this. And we're not1

the only dog hunting club. We respect the stalk2

hunters. We just ask that they respect us, too,3

because we spend a lot of money and hunting is very4

good. It's very good for the kids. Dog hunting the5

kids love. I love it. I've done it all my life. My6

husband has done it all his life. That's how we raise7

our children. It helps keep children off the streets8

because dog hunting is a socializing thing. It's a9

lot more fun than stalk hunting.10

I do stalk hunt and I do appreciate stalk11

hunters, and I do respect stalk hunters' rights, but I12

would ask that something be done because it's hard.13

When we raise a dog, we take care of our dogs. Our14

dogs are in concrete pens and they go to vets. They15

have shots. We have three dog boxes, aluminum dog16

boxes. We have a dog box to go on our four-wheelers,17

and we do everything that we can to get our dogs back.18

And if you can figure out a way where we19

can keep our dogs off of other people's land, we will,20

but dogs have rights, too. And there is no difference21

in somebody shooting our hunting dogs than somebody's22

pet, like the stories that you see on the local news23

about pets that have been abused because they are pets24

and they're treated with respect.25

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Just because we use them to run deer or1

hogs, whatever you use them for, it doesn't mean you2

don't love them. And we would just like to see3

something be done that can help everybody come4

together on this, and that's all I have to say.5

CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you, Susan.6

Ms. Morrow, what district did you all hunt in? Do you7

live and hunt in a different district?8

MS. MORROW: Yes. I live in Huntsville,9

Alabama, and I hunt all over the state, but we belong10

to Scott Mountain Hunting Club in Butler, Alabama.11

CHAIRMAN: In Butler? Okay. All right.12

The next speaker will be Todd Tucker.13

MR. TUCKER: Good morning. My name is14

Todd Tucker of Fayette County. I can't say much more15

than Ms. Morrow hasn't already said. She pretty much16

summed it up for all of us, I think, and any other17

speaker before us. I am a pro dog hunter of Fayette18

County, and I would ask that we make the same -- we19

don't need to change anything. We came a long way20

down here today to talk to the Board. We did this by21

choice. That's what we want. I want the right to be22

able to choose what we want to do, the method we want23

to hunt.24

I've got a son that's nineteen years old,25

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and I started him when he was old enough to walk,1

teaching him how to dog hunt, stalk hunt, still hunt,2

tree-stand hunt. Now the choice is his for whatever3

he wants to do, and that's the way I want it. And4

that's the way it should be when you raise children.5

They should have a choice of how they want to spend6

their time hunting and fishing.7

Like I say, Ms. Morrow pretty much summed8

it up for the dog hunters. We all agree with her. We9

take care of ours dogs and we try not to let them get10

on other people's property, but sometimes they do and11

we can't help that. We don't want them to, but12

sometimes it happens.13

And a lot of landowners will call us or14

the club will call us to come pick up our dogs, and15

that's the way it should be. We had a meeting up in16

Berry last month. There was probably three hundred in17

attendance. Some of the Board members were there.18

And like I say, probably ninety percent, plus, were19

pro dog hunters there at that meeting.20

I, myself, went to try to understand why21

there's an issue of trying to ban dog hunting in the22

county. The minority group that was there, one guy23

didn't like to hear dogs on his property while he was24

hunting. He didn't want to hear the sound of the dog.25

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There was a lady that couldn't ride her1

horses because she was afraid they were going to be2

shot. And there was another gentleman that said he3

had to sell his property because dogs was running all4

over it. I don't know if I believe that or not, but5

that's his -- that's his story.6

The majority, just like us, we just want7

to keep things the way they are, and we're not asking8

you to make any new rules or regulations or change9

anything. We're just asking you that it remain the10

same and give us the right to choose. Thank you.11


speaker will be, again, Mr. Knight. You wanted to13

speak on a different subject, I think.14

MR. KNIGHT: I'm Don Knight. I live in15

Anniston, but I hunt in Barbour County. I had to16

think a minute, but I'm the State President of the17

Alabama Dog Hunting Association. That's what I'm18

speaking on here today.19

I did attend the meeting in Berry,20

Alabama. I thought it was a well-attended meeting.21

There was approximately three hundred people there of22

which, like I say, by far the majority was pro dog. I23

think the petitions that they brought in today with24

some more names added today, there is over two25

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thousand names now in favor of dog hunting in Fayette1

County.2

The meeting went well. I wish we could3

have got the people together where they could have4

discussed things. I tried that. The lady that I5

talked with wasn't interested. I think she had fear,6

which is terrible. We're not about any kind of fear7

tactics or anything else in the dog hunters in Fayette8

County.9

I found these people very passionate about10

their hunting, but I found them also very willing to11

help find the guilty people to where they can continue12

to hunt the way they want to hunt. Punish the people,13

not the method of hunting. That's just not -- not the14

thing I think the people want to happen today.15

I've heard several people speak lately16

about not seeing any deer on their property all year,17

but the dogs run across their property. I've been18

hunting fifty -- well over fifty years in the State of19

Alabama, not in any other state, all right here in20

Alabama. The possibility of that and the dogs causing21

that problem are just astronomically low.22

My suggestion to these people is to try23

going around to the stores and see who is buying all24

the corn that don't have domestic animals, because I25

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think you'll find your problem. That's probably why1

you're not seeing any deer, more so than a dog running2

across your property.3

We have found on our land, and we've been4

hunting thirty-five years, after we run an area, say5

in the morning, that's the area we want to still hunt6

in the evening. Those deer are coming back that day.7

Dan, I think I gave you a full report8

where the Universities of South Carolina, Georgia and9

Florida went in and did a test on running deer with10

dogs. They ran these deer hard, extremely hard. They11

found that they were back in the area they left and12

the most was twenty-four hours. They were right back13

where they came from in the area.14

So we have big deer on our property. I15

think most all of you have heard about some of the16

deer that we kill on our land over there in Barbour17

County. We've been running that same land for over18

thirty-five years. It's up to us --19

MS. NUMMY: Time.20

MR. KNIGHT: -- to take care of it, and we21

appreciate it. We would just ask that you punish the22

people and let us help you in Fayette County or any23

other county in the State and let us continue with dog24

hunting in Alabama.25

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speaker will be John Ward.2


MR. WARD: My name is John Ward. We have4

about sixty-five hundred acres we lease in Fayette5

County. We have got great hunting dogs. We -- we do6

everything right. I mean, other hunters come7

alongside of us all day long catching the other dogs.8

We have thirty-two youth turning out for the youth9

hunt. (Reporter having trouble understanding Mr. Ward10

and asked him to repeat his statement.) We had11

thirty-two young kids for the youth hunt, and I've got12

a son who is fighting in the military. He's a dog13

hunter, too. He can't wait to get home.14

About three months ago we all thought he15

got killed. That tore me up. Well, we got a call16

later on that night that he wasn't killed but another17

guy named Jason Ward. You know, they help us a lot,18

you know. My heart goes out towards those guys. We19

don't want to worry about hunting laws. What we need20

to do is enforce the hunting licenses and get more21

game wardens to help us and get the outlaws out of22

here. If you don't get the game wardens out here, we23

can't help you, you know. I thank you all for24

everything you've done for us.25

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CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Ward. The next1

speaker will be Sybil Deschaines.2

MS. DESCHAINES: The first thing I would3

like to do is express --4

CHAIRMAN: Speak up to the microphone,5

please, Ms. Deschaines. Thank you.6

MS. DESCHAINES: -- express our sympathy7

to Mr. Coles for the devastation in his town and the8

lives that were lost. I've been there. I know how it9

feels. I want to thank you for Elmore County, the ban10

that was put into effect ten years ago in May, and I'm11

still hearing it from the landowners in the community12

how wonderful it is; they hardly realize hunting13

season is open. And I thank you again for it. Thank14

you.15

CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Ms. Deschaines. The16

next speaker will be D.O. Harden.17

MR. HARDEN: Good morning. I appreciate18

the opportunity to speak to you this morning. My name19

is D.O. Harden. I am a Fayette County landowner and20

leaseholder, and we are very much opposed to dog21

hunting in Fayette County for a lot of reasons. I'm22

just going to read a few things from a few letters23

that I have received and have gotten copies of, and24

these are things that we all have run into.25

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And what you are finding is when they say1

there weren't very many people there at Berry, there2

were so many people who were fearful, like the lady3

who was mentioned, of stepping up and voicing their4

opinions.5

And what we're trying -- I've been talking6

to a lot of people in Fayette County for the last two7

or three months trying to determine exactly what the8

extent of the problem is, and it is county wide. The9

problem is -- is -- is not with the dog hunting clubs,10

because we know there are some good ones, but,11

unfortunately, it appears that the bad ones outnumber12

the good ones.13

And what is occurring is that -- this --14

this almost becomes not -- not a dog hunting issue or15

a hunting issue, period. It's -- it's a -- it's a16

private property rights issue. It's the right to use17

your property without infringement in a peaceful18

manner and without -- without someone coming onto your19

property and trespassing.20

And what we find is that when we go out21

and we stalk hunt, there are too many instances, way22

too many instances of people who are running dogs on23

our properties. I, in fact, have even leased another24

three hundred seventy acres to try and insolate myself25

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from the dog hunters, but I find that they still come1

through my property.2

They're on the public roads that run3

through my property. They have their guns out and4

they're ready to shoot dogs as they are crossing. And5

mine is not an isolated incident.6

All of these letters give -- give7

indication of what is happening. For me to take the8

time to go through all of them, unfortunately, we9

don't have time. I wish I did.10

And I hope -- I hope that you all will11

take the time to do it. But we are asking that this12

problem be solved. Only you can solve it. It's13

getting worse. The intimidation, the threats are14

there. That's why you don't see many people here.15

And what we're trying to do is -- is get everyone's16

attention on this matter, and I think most of you17

realize what is happening. And it's time that we --18

we did something about it.19

Someone is going to get -- someone is20

going to get hurt. We've had property discussions.21

We've had livestock killed, and I'm not talking about22

this being every -- every -- I would say there are a23

good many people who are good dog hunters here, but24

it's the bad ones who outweigh the good ones.25

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MS. NUMMY: Time.1

CHAIRMAN: Just go ahead and finish,2

Mr. Harden.3

MR. HARDEN: And all we're asking for is a4

-- a return of our property rights. We don't have5

them anymore. We have an infringement of -- the dog6

hunters that we run into are only concerned about7

hunting their dogs. They don't care whether they're,8

you know, encroaching on our property, trespassing on9

our property or anything else.10

We are strictly against those dog hunters,11

and we're asking -- the only way the problem can be12

solved to return our property rights is to ban dog13

hunting in Fayette County. We're asking you to14

consider doing that and please help solve this15

problem. That's the only way it can be done. Thank16

you.17

MR. LYNCH: Mr. Harden, if I can ask you,18

where is your land located?19

MR. HARDEN: My land is located in East20

Central Fayette County in the Bankston area.21

MR. LYNCH: Thank you.22

CHAIRMAN: Thank you. The next speaker23

will be Truman Herren.24

MR. HERREN: My name is Truman Herren.25

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I'm from Northeast Fayette County. I'm opposed to dog1

hunting in its present state because dog hunters don't2

respect land lines. I've heard too many times that3

dogs can't read signs and don't know where the land4

lines are. But the problem is the manipulators of the5

dogs. As far as the petitions go, I put out ten6

petitions on clip boards like this with a known number7

of sheets.8

Of those ten, when I went back to pick9

them up, two were completely gone. Two more had been10

picked up by a friend of mine, which that was not11

true. Only one out of ten had the same number of12

sheets with the names on it. The rest of them13

disappeared mysteriously.14

I've been intimidated, threatened and15

vandalized, my property, in the last two weeks because16

I've had the lack of sense to speak up and express my17

views regarding dog hunting. It hasn't changed me in18

the least. I still don't like anybody running dogs on19

my land. It's not right.20

Since I've been speaking up, I've created21

a rift in my community, in the church that I grew up22

in, that the rest of my life will probably never be23

healed. So be it. Somebody has to speak for my24

children and grandchildren, and I'll be here doing it25

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at every opportunity. Thank you for your time.1

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Herren --2

MR. HERREN: Yes, sir.3

CHAIRMAN: -- could you come back?4

Mr. Porter has a question.5

MR. HERREN: Yes, sir.6

MR. PORTER: On the petitions that you did7

keep or get, how many signatures did you have?8

MR. HERREN: We have very few signatures.9

And the people that I talked to about that said that10

there was a lot of conversation but very few11

signatures because people expressed concern if they12

did sign.13

MR. PORTER: Thank you.14

CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.15

MR. JOHNSON: Did you state how many acres16

you had?17

MR. HERREN: Approximately seven hundred18

acres; yes, sir. There's a family-owned hunting club19

on that seven hundred acres. We've owned that20

property since the 17 -- 1840's -- I beg your pardon21

-- so I'm not a newcomer to Fayette County. I was22

gone for forty-two years, but I came back home.23

CHAIRMAN: Any other questions from the24

Board? (No response) Very good. Thank you,25

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Mr. Herren.1

MR. HERREN: Thank you.2

CHAIRMAN: The next speaker will be Paul3

Jeffreys.4

MR. JEFFREYS: Members of the Board, good5

morning. I'm Paul Jeffreys. I'm from Lamar County,6

and I've come down here today to thank you for the ban7

on dog and deer hunting in the Northwest corner of8

Alabama, in Lamar and Franklin and parts of Winston9

Counties. We came down here several years ago with a10

property rights issue problem. Three years ago you11

all granted us a ban on dog deer hunting.12

And since that time our way of life,13

hunting experiences, has drastically increased. It's14

nothing but a success story, gotten better and15

continues to get better year after year. I would just16

like to express a deep heartfelt thank you to each and17

every one of you for that ban and ask that you18

maintain it.19


speaker will be Mr. Jack Martin.21

MR. MARTIN: Good morning, Dan, Board22

members. Thank you for the time. I hunt in Fayette23

County. I'm a leaseholder. I'm probably hunting on24

about two hundred fifty acres. What I would like to25

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say to you is that I wouldn't be here today if there1

wasn't a problem.2

In some cases dogs run through other3

people's property unintentional, as we've heard this4

morning. In other cases, it is intentional. In these5

cases, it shows no respect for someone's property.6

Landowners and people who lease land have the right to7

protect and harvest the deer that they've raised on8

their property.9

The money and time spent to seed and10

prepare green fields, roads, it should not be wasted11

having deer run off the property. It's no fun to sit12

waiting to shoot all day with the grandchildren and13

them not be able to see any deer. You can hear the14

dogs run through the property. Where did the deer go?15

This is the very reason other counties16

have had to close down dog hunting. Fayette County is17

now surrounded by counties that have been closed to18

dog hunting. This has caused an influx of dog hunters19

within the county. Since this problem has been20

clearly identified and discussed at the previous21

meetings, people have received phone calls threatening22

them.23

Others have had their property's "No24

trespassing" signs destroyed. I feel a man should25

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have the right to his property without threats and1

abuse. A man should have the right to use his2

property as he sees fit.3

Members of the Board, I'm begging you to4

resolve this issue by closing down dog hunting in5

Fayette County. Thank you very much.6


speaker will be William Schober.8

MR. SCHOBER: Good morning. My name is9

William Schober. I reside in Jefferson County,10

Pleasant Grove. I hunt in Fayette County. I belong11

to a club that is a still and stalk hunting club who12

leases forty-four hundred acres in the vicinity of13

Fayette County between Berry and Fayette. I have two14

sons that hunt with me. I've heard a gentleman here15

today talking about hunting with his sons. I hunt16

with my two sons. They're thirty-two and thirty-five17

years old. I took them in the woods when they were18

five and seven.19

We've been still and stalk hunting except20

for two years. I belong to a dog hunting club in21

Tuscaloosa County to see how the other half live. I22

was not impressed. I actually stood on public roads23

while the dogs were running. There was parts of the24

land -- there was nine thousand acres. There were25

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parts of the land that that hunting club did not1

lease.2

They had no written permission from the3

owners of the land, nor did we have members of the4

landowners in our hunting parties, and we ran dogs5

across that land anyway.6

I saw deer that were bloodied limping off7

into the woods and asked these guys do you want to go8

track these deer. "No. It's nothing but a doe.9

Let's go back to another piece of property."10

So I've experienced the dog hunting side11

of this issue and I did not like what I saw. I've12

heard people sit up here and talk about traditions of13

dog hunting. Everybody is familiar with football in14

the State. Down at Auburn, when you win a big game15

you go roll to Tuber's Corner. (Phonetically) But16

you have to respect people's windows and you have to17

respect the cars.18

If you start taking cars and breaking out19

windows, that tradition will end. In Alabama, they20

have a tradition of parking in a particular area with21

their RVs before the game. There is a tradition where22

the alumni gather before and after the game to23

celebrate the win or to bemoan the loss.24

The RVers have been moved at the request25

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of the business owners down in that particular area in1

Alabama, at the University of Alabama, and they're2

talking about putting a parking area in there. That's3

tradition that by the wishes of others is going to be4

changed, and people are going to have to live with it.5

They talk about respect, and I've heard6

people talk about the threats made on them. We've had7

people in our club that have had threats made on them8

by dog hunters in the vicinity, and it's gotten pretty9

vocal.10

It's gotten almost to the point of fist11

fights. So there is a lack of respect in part by dog12

hunters on the rights of those who want to still and13

stalk hunt.14

With all due respect, at several of these15

meetings people have talked about fighting in Iraq.16

I fought in the first Gulf War. I fought for the17

rights of the man who will respect the rights of18

another man.19

MS. NUMMY: Time.20

CHAIRMAN: Go ahead and finish.21

MR. SCHOBER: And there was a -- what was22

it -- a 1969 Supreme Court case that coined the phrase23

"My rights end where yours begin." To reverse that a24

little bit, I think the rights of the dog hunters end25

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where the rights of the landowners begin. So you must1

respect the rights of the landowners.2

They say dogs can't read property signs.3

They say they do their best to get their dogs4

together. I know of no dog hunting club that will5

impose a fine on a member whose dogs trespass on a6

private landowner's property or a still or stalk7

club's property. I figure if you are serious about8

this issue, impose a fine.9

They talk about shooting dogs. In our10

club, we had members threaten to shoot the dog. The11

president of the club told them, you do and you're out12

of here. So we are respecting people's dogs, but I've13

sat in a stand and had dogs come under me. I've been14

on the road and have been run into a ditch by people15

chasing their dog that are chasing the deer. That's16

got to stop.17

That's a safety issue. I'm not going to18

have a wreck over a man trying to find his dogs or get19

the deer. And real quickly, they talk about the lack20

of complaints. We lease land that formerly was used21

by dog hunters, and the neighbors up there are tickled22

pink from the reports we get. You're not going to get23

complaints from them because they're not having24

problems anymore.25

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So that may, in some part, explain the1

lack of complaints that are coming out of Fayette2

County. Last, but not least, when I did belong to a3

dog hunting club, it was appropriately named because4

we spent more time hunting dogs than we did hunting5

deer. But anyway, that's my comments, and I really6

appreciate it, and I appreciate you letting me finish.7

CHAIRMAN: Thank you.8

MR. HATLEY: I have a question.9

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley, go ahead.10

MR. HATLEY: Yes, sir. Where do you11

reside? I'm sorry. I missed that.12

MR. SCHOBER: I'm in Jefferson County.13

MR. HATLEY: Jefferson County?14

MR. SCHOBER: Yes, sir.15

MR. HATLEY: How long have you been16

hunting in Fayette County?17

MR. SCHOBER: About three years.18

MR. HATLEY: Were you aware or cognizant19

of the fact that there was deer hunting being done by20

dogs prior to you going into a stalk hunting club?21

MR. SCHOBER: Not the first year, no, sir.22

Well, I became aware after I joined the club and paid23

the dues; yes, sir.24

MR. HATLEY: So you actually knew that25

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there was a dog hunting operation going on around you,1

but yet you wanted to lease land in between that or2

around that?3

MR. SCHOBER: No, sir. I joined a club4

that was already established. I don't lease the land.5

I belong to the club that does lease the land.6

MR. HATLEY: My point is you went into an7

area that was dog hunting and to stalk hunt; is that8

correct?9

MR. SCHOBER: Yes, sir.10

MR. HATLEY: Thank you.11

MR. SCHOBER: And if I may follow up, I12

assumed that, as all these dog hunters said that they13

have honored the property lines, so I assumed I14

wouldn't have a problem.15

CHAIRMAN: The next speaker, and we'll16

conclude the speakers, is Bill Woodard.17


MR. WOODARD: My name is Bill Woodard. We19

own five hundred fifty acres in Fayette County. Most20

of this land has been in our family since 1859. We21

have a problem with dog hunters. Every Saturday and22

Sunday, our land is covered up with dogs. We can't23

hunt our own land for the dog hunters. And I'm asking24

you to please ban dog hunting in Fayette County.25

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Thank you.1

CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. That2

concludes our speakers. We will take -- the Board3

will take a ten-minute recess. It's now 10:05. We'll4

be back at 10:15.5

(A RECESS WAS TAKEN AT 10:05 A.M. AND THE6

HEARING RECONVENED AT 10:30 A.M.)7

CHAIRMAN: All right. The meeting is8

going to reconvene. This meeting is now back in9

order. The next topic of business is the topic of new10

business. If everybody will find their chairs.11

Again, the next topic of business is new business to12

discuss. Does any of the Board have any new business13

they wish to discuss?14

MR. SELF: I do.15

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Self.16

MR. SELF: Mr. Chairman, I wanted to17

discuss Spanish Mackerel fishing.18

CHAIRMAN: Speak up to the microphone,19

please, sir.20

MR. SELF: It won't come up any further.21

CHAIRMAN: Okay.22

MR. SELF: I've been fishing in the Gulf23

of Mexico for over fifty years, and one of the fish24

that I like to catch is Spanish Mackerel. And I've25

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noticed over the last few years a marked decrease in1

the ability to catch Spanish Mackerel as a2

recreational fisherman. And it's brought me to3

investigate why this is happening.4

And it's -- it's not being experienced by5

just myself, but I've had many, many, many complaints6

of recreational fishermen that they are unable to7

catch Spanish Mackerel in the Gulf anymore, or at8

least in Alabama waters.9

So that leads me to -- to start asking10

some questions of marine resources. They have11

enlightened me a good bit. And this kind of ties back12

to the fact that our neighbors, but primarily Florida,13

has banished net fishing. And this has resulted in14

increased gill net pressure off the coast of Alabama.15

Now, I want to make this clear that,16

according to the National Fisheries, there is no17

shortage of Spanish Mackerel there in the Gulf. But18

records indicate that eighty percent of all Spanish19

Mackerel caught in Alabama by gill netting is20

occurring in Alabama.21

And this can only be attributed to the22

fact that that's where all gill net fishing is23

happening. And for that reason, I would like to make24

a motion to request the Commissioner of Conservation25

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to investigate and study whether commercial over1

harvesting of Spanish Mackerel by gill netting is2

occurring in Alabama and to authorize them to adopt a3

regulation to make it a requirement to permit the4

same.5

CHAIRMAN: Is there a second to the6

motion?7

MR. HATLEY: Second.8

CHAIRMAN: There is a second by9

Mr. Hatley. The motion again is to consider -- for10

the Commissioner to come back and consider the banning11

of gill netting, and the other thing, the regulation12

to control; is that correct, Ross?13

MR. SELF: Yeah, just to see if there14

might need to be some adjustments to -- to the harvest15

of Spanish Mackerel.16

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Commercial quota.17

CHAIRMAN: A quota. Okay. Is there any18

discussion on it? No discussion? All those in favor?19


CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No responses)21

The motion passes. Any other new business by the22

Board?23

MR. LYNCH: I've got some.24

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch?25

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MR. LYNCH: Board members have received a1

letter from Billy Wallace concerning the situation2

that's occurring in Macon County. And I'm going to3

pass this down, start it down with Mr. Hatley and4

start it the other way. Basically, it's a gentleman5

that's high-fenced approximately six hundred fifty or6

seven hundred acres and has built an earthen ramp that7

goes up to the fence with a wooden wall. And then he8

has feed on the inside of the enclosure to where deer9

can come up the ramp, jump down into the enclosure and10

then can't get out.11

I've talked with Corky and with Alan about12

this, and they say that, while this is not the norm13

across the State, that this, as well as some other14

attempts to attract deer and to hold them inside the15

enclosure without a way for them to get out, is going16

on throughout the State, and we currently don't have17

anything on our books to give our enforcement officers18

a way to enforce the situation.19

So I'm asking at the May meeting that they20

present a resolution or passage of new regulation that21

will limit someone attempting to track any animal into22

a high-fenced enclosure without having a way for the23

animal to escape from that enclosure at the May24

hearing.25

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MR. PORTER: I second that.1

CHAIRMAN: Okay. There is a second on2

that. Was that a motion or just a resolution?3

MR. LYNCH: That's just a motion to4

present that.5

CHAIRMAN: Any discussion on that? All6

those in favor?7



Corky, if you all will report at the May meeting on10

that. Okay. Any other new business?11

MR. LYNCH: I have one more.12

CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Lynch.13

MR. LYNCH: As I understand, in addition14

to the bill that Riley Smith spoke to us about, we15

have two other bills that are currently being16

considered by the Alabama Legislature. It is a three17

package. I would like to make a motion that this18

Board recommends to the Alabama State Legislature that19

those three bills are passed as written and that the20

revenue streams that they create go to the intended21

agencies within this department, and that those bills22

are necessary and required for the continued success23

and improvement of those agencies.24

CHAIRMAN: Are you saying nonamended?25

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MR. LYNCH: Yes, and they should be passed1

nonamended, and that the revenue streams themselves2

are kept intact to the agency for which they are3

intended.4

MR. HATLEY: I second the motion.5

CHAIRMAN: He seconds the motion. Is6

there any discussion? No discussion? All in favor.7



Any other new business? Dr. Strickland?10

DR. STRICKLAND: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I11

would like to make a recommendation. I think we all12

realize how important good, clean data statistics is13

in making informed decisions, particularly in managing14

wildlife here in Alabama. One thing I've learned from15

medicine is my observations, when taking care of a16

patient, are not necessarily true all the time, and we17

make decisions based on scientific principles, data18

and statistics.19

We have good data statistics here with our20

Board, but I think we could do better. One of the21

things that I would recommend is taking a look at22

Auburn. Auburn University, they have trained23

professionals that are trained in data collection,24

scientific principles. I think it would be very25

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valuable to help us make informed decisions with1

regard to managing wildlife. I was wondering, do we2

need a motion or a resolution to get Auburn University3

involved?4

CHAIRMAN: Commissioner, would that be5

something you would do if the Board asked you to do6

that?7

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: Yeah, we probably8

could look and see. Auburn is doing some work right9

now. We could get some data as to what Auburn might10

suggest that they -- they could add to that research.11

CHAIRMAN: Okay. So could we depend on12

you to take that and come back and review that?13

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: We will look at that14

and see and get with Auburn and see what kind of15

monies we're talking about and how we may be able to16

fund that and bring that back to the Board.17

CHAIRMAN: Very good. Thank you.18

DR. STRICKLAND: Thank you.19

CHAIRMAN: Any other new business?20

MR. COLES: Yes, Mr. Chairman.21

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coles. Mr. Coles, before22

you get started, because I know you can be23

long-winded, I want to recognize, I want to make sure24

everybody in the room -- Hobbie, where are you?25

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Hobbie, stand up. This is our -- our fairly new, not1

real new anymore, Assistant Commissioner. I want2

everybody to meet him from this area, and, Hobbie,3

know we appreciate you being on board, and, again,4

welcome Hobbie Sealy.5

MR. SEALY: It's great to be here.6

(CLAPPING FROM THE BOARD AND AUDIENCE)7

CHAIRMAN: Now Mr. Coles.8

MR. COLES: Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be9

like Elizabeth Taylor told her fourth and fifth10

husbands; I won't keep you long. I have a couple of11

questions for the Wildlife Freshwater Fisheries.12

Mr. Moody, approximately how many deer are killed on13

our management areas, roughly?14

MR. MOODY: I'm drawing a blank. We'll15

give you the sum here in just a minute.16

MR. COLES: My next question while he's17

looking --18

MR. MOODY: The State is harvesting, I19

can't give you the exact number; about three or four20

thousand. If you would like, I'll pull up the exact21

number.22

MR. COLES: No, that's all right. Just23

give me a guesstimate on that management area. Three24

or four thousand?25

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CHAIRMAN: Please identify yourself.1

MR. HAYDEN: David Hayden. I'm Assistant2

Chief of the Wildlife section. Off the top of my3

head, I would say forty-five hundred to five thousand.4

MR. COLES: How much of our research money5

or Pittman-Robinson money is going to research at the6

management areas, approximately?7

MR. MOODY: Very little for research, you8

know, a lot for operations.9

MR. COLES: Do you have any -- can you10

give me any figures as to how much money we got from11

Pittman-Robinson last year?12

MR. MOODY: Ballpark, three and-a-half13

million.14

MR. COLES: Three and-a-half million? Was15

any of the Pittman-Robinson money used for game and16

animal research?17

MR. MOODY: Yes.18

MR. COLES: Approximately how much?19

MR. MOODY: I can't tell you right off the20

top of my head.21

MR. COLES: Any money, or research money,22

used for game, animal data collection as far as after23

harvest?24

MR. MOODY: Yes.25

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MR. COLES: Well, Mr. Chairman, I have a1

-- I have a motion that I would like to make. We sit2

up here and make decisions at each meeting based on3

the information that we have. And at this present4

time, I don't feel that we have adequate information.5

So I would like to make a motion that this6

Conservation Advisory Board be furnished a detailed7

report for the past three years of any8

Pittman-Robinson Act funds and Dingle-Johnson Act9

funds that the Conservation Department has received.10

And I would also like this report to11

include what, if any, research funds, what they've12

been used for and the amount of money for each project13

and who did that research. And I would like to add14

that each Board member should receive this report15

within the next fifteen days.16

CHAIRMAN: Is there a second to the17

motion?18

DR. STRICKLAND: Second.19

CHAIRMAN: A second. On the motion, the20

motion is, again, I would like to make the motion that21

this Conservation Supervisory Board be furnished a22

detailed report for the past three years of any23

Pittman-Robinson Act funds and Dingle-Johnson Act24

funds that the Conservation Department has received.25

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I would also like this report to include any research1

funds that have been used -- which have been used, for2

the amount of money for each project and who did the3

research. Each Board member should receive this4

report in the next fifteen days. Any discussion?5

Yes, sir, Mr. Porter.6

MR. PORTER: This might be considered an7

amendment, but it seems to me that also included in8

that should be some explanation about how you can --9

those monies are somewhat restricted. Give the Board10

members an idea as to what they -- what they can be11

used for.12

CHAIRMAN: Would you be opposed to that13

being within your motion, Mr. Porter, of how that14

money is being used?15

MR. PORTER: The only question I have to16

the Department is the fifteen days, is that something17

that could be reasonably collected and delivered18

within fifteen days?19

MR. MOODY: Yes.20

CHAIRMAN: Any other discussion on this21

motion? No other discussion? The motion, again, is22

as read except added that, also, how all these monies23

can be used with wildlife, Mr. Porter?24

MR. PORTER: No, just a -- just an25

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explanation of the Pittman-Robinson funds and the1

Dingle funds. They are restricted to certain uses;2

just an explanation of how they -- how they can be3

spent.4

CHAIRMAN: Very good. All those in favor?5


CHAIRMAN: All opposed? (No response.)7

The motion passes. Any other new business?8

MR. HATLEY: I'd like to make a motion --9

CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.10

MR. HATLEY: -- to approve all the11

Department of Conservation regulations since the last12

approval.13

CHAIRMAN: There is a motion. Is there a14

second to approve all regulations since the last --15

what was that?16

MR. HATLEY: Since the last approval.17

CHAIRMAN: -- since the last approval.18

Any discussion? No discussion? All those in favor?19


CHAIRMAN: All opposed? None? Any other21

new business?22

DR. MAY: I have a motion.23

CHAIRMAN: Dr. May.24

DR. MAY: I'd like to add the north zone,25

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207208 to read fifteen a day, fifteen in possession,1

sixty days, split season, September the 22nd to2

October the 13th, twenty-two days; October the 27th to3

November the 18th, twenty-three days; December the4

15th to December the 29th, fifteen days, a total of5

sixty days.6

CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is that the entire7

motion?8

DR. MAY: Yes.9

CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there a second?10

MR. PORTER: Second.11

MR. JOHNSON: Second the motion.12

CHAIRMAN: There is a motion and a second.13

The motion is concerning dove season as read by14

Dr. May. Is there any discussion on this motion?15

There being no discussion on the motion, the motion is16

--17

MR. LYNCH: I've got one.18

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch.19

MR. LYNCH: This motion he just made, I'm20

sorry, I was looking for it in my package. It21

wouldn't open until September 22nd?22

DR. MAY: Correct.23

MR. LYNCH: What was the season last year?24

DR. MAY: It opened the 15th.25

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CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lynch.1

MR. HATLEY: Why are we going back and2

forth?3

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley, if you will address4

the Chair, please, sir. Yes, sir, Mr. Hatley.5

MR. HATLEY: Why are we swapping dates6

constantly on this season? This is the third year7

we've done this.8

CHAIRMAN: Dr. May?9

DR. MAY: The Department came back and10

recommended opening it the 8th of September. I feel11

the 8th is too early. We know young doves are not12

mature for twenty days. July and August are the true13

peek months of hatching. So if you open the 8th, the14

last hatching in August, it's going to be eight days15

old. I don't think it's biologically correct to open16

that early, plus I have too many complaints about the17

weather and the heat.18

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Hatley.19

MR. HATLEY: Well, I just noticed Georgia,20

they open the 1st of September, and Mississippi does,21

too. And if we're going to go back all the way to the22

22nd, I just wondered why we keep vacillating between23

all these dates.24

DR. MAY: Well, the question to ask is why25

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are they opening early. That's the commercial1

hunters' preference. I don't feel we should compete2

with other states.3

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Porter.4

MR. PORTER: Mr. Moultrie, Tennessee opens5

the 1st of September, too.6

CHAIRMAN: I believe, Gary and Corky, do7

you all know, doesn't every other state around us open8

for the Labor Day weekend? Is that correct?9

MR. MOODY: It's very early in September.10

I don't know if it's Labor Day.11

CHAIRMAN: I believe it's on the 1st, but12

I'm not positive about that. But I think you're13

right, Mr. Porter. Okay. Any other discussions?14

MR. SMITH: Yes.15

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Smith?16

MR. SMITH: One of the reasons to go back17

to what Mr. Hatley is saying here, if we moved it from18

-- back and forth was that we had testimony before the19

group here, before the Board, people were concerned20

that if you move it too late in the season, these21

folks in the other states do get a head start. It was22

at the hunters' request that we move it back to the23

8th or thereabouts in the year there. I mean, that's24

part of the explanation.25

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MR. HATLEY: I think so.1

CHAIRMAN: Pardon, Mr. Hatley? If you2

would speak into the microphone, Mr. Hatley. The3

court reporter has a harder time if you don't do that.4

MR. HATLEY: I'm not going to worry about5

dove season.6

CHAIRMAN: Is there any other discussion7

on the motion? Okay. The motion is as Dr. May read.8

All those in favor?9

(MOST BOARD MEMBERS SAID "AYE")10

CHAIRMAN: All opposed?11

MR. LYNCH: Aye.12

CHAIRMAN: Let the record show one13

opposed, Mr. Lynch. The motion carries. Any other14

new business? Any other new business? The next order15

of business is that, being there is no other new16

business, is the announcement of the May Advisory17

Board meeting will be held on May 19, 2007 in North18

Alabama. Commissioner, do we have a location yet?19

COMMISSIONER LAWLEY: We do not.20

ASSISTANT CHIEF: Would you ask the Board21

to hang around for a second?22

CHAIRMAN: That will be fine.23

DR. STRICKLAND: I suggest Huntsville,24

Alabama.25

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MR. LAWLEY: We were hoping to have the1

next meeting at Guntersville State Park, but it2

doesn't look like the park is going to be complete in3

time for it. So right now Robin is searching very4

vigorous

Documents

Cab 2007 Mar