1

STATE OF MICHIGAN

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND

MAYA EIBSCHITZ-TSIMHONI,

Plaintiff,

v Case No. 09-766749-DM

OMER G. TSIMHONI,

Defendant./

MOTION HEARING

BEFORE THE HONORABLE LISA GORCYCA

Pontiac, Michigan - Wednesday, November 12, 2014

APPEARANCES:

For the Plaintiff: RENEE K. GUCCIARDO (P47884)

30700 Telegraph Road, Suite 1580

Bingham Farms, Michigan 48025

(248) 723-5190

For the Defendant: AMY SPILMAN (P52044)

600 South Adams, Suite 100

Birmingham, Michigan 48009

(248) 358-8880

Guardian Ad Litem: WILLIAM LANSAT (P36752)

280 North Old Woodward, Suite 250

Birmingham, Michigan 48009

(248) 258-7074

Transcription by: Sandra Traskos, CER 7118

Accurate Transcription Services

(734)944-5818

2

TABLE OF CONTENTS

PAGE

WITNESSES

None

EXHIBITS RECEIVED

None offered.

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Pontiac, Michigan 1

Wednesday, November 12, 2014 - 11:10 a.m. 2

* * * * * * 3

THE CLERK: Court calls docket number 36, 4

Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs. Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM. 5

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: Your Honor just 6

getting Ms. Gucciardo out of the hallway. 7

MS. SPILMAN: Ready your Honor. 8

THE COURT: Good morning. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: Morning your Honor. 10

MS. SPILMAN: Morning, Amy Spilman standing in 11

for Keri Middleditch on behalf of the Defendant Father. 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the 13

Plaintiff Maya. 14

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor um--William Lansat GAL, 15

I asked the Court to--and I appreciate the Court and--and 16

all Counsel actually coming here today. Your Honor I did 17

a thorough report, everyone’s had it. I frankly do not 18

know what to do anymore on this case. Um--Ms. Steeb had a 19

copy of it. You were present when it was done at the 20

courthouse here. I--I--we cannot--all I can say right now 21

is we just cannot continue, the library, the dog, the 22

status quo, it just cannot happen. 23

THE COURT: Ms. Steeb? 24

MS. STEEB: Judge I agree with the Guardian Ad 25

4

Litem on this. Um--after spending almost two full days 1

here at the Court trying to facilitate parenting time 2

between-- 3

THE COURT: By the way, the Court appreciated 4

you trying to do that. Thank you. You didn’t have any 5

other cases you needed to work on for those days. 6

MS. STEEB: It was virtually impossible to get 7

the three children um--into the room. It was very 8

difficult to get mom away from the children um--and 9

frankly there isn’t I--I--without everybody being in one 10

central location I, like Mr. Lansat, am out of ideas for 11

how to facilitate this relationship. 12

THE COURT: Okay. 13

MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor our client is on his 14

way to Michigan as we speak. He’s flying from Israel. He 15

will be here um--this evening. I have his schedule that 16

he’s available to spend time with the children um--if we 17

can facilitate that. We are willing to abide by what Mr. 18

Lansat has suggested um--if we could have the parties meet 19

as he proposes at the courthouse with the Sheriff present 20

and help him get the children into the car-- 21

THE COURT: Wait--wait--is that the Sheriff’s 22

that aren’t working on that murder trial--that murder case 23

that just happened. That--so these--the deputies that are 24

working around the clock for that murder that just 25

5

happened in Waterford the home invasion where 1

unfortunately a man was killed. They should be working on 2

this. Okay, I agree. That’s what we pay our police 3

officers to do. 4

MS. SPILMAN: Well then certainly just at--maybe 5

a police station-- 6

THE COURT: Oh, no, no I’m not--it wasn’t 7

against you. 8

MS. SPILMAN: --I’m not sure what Mr. Lansat has 9

in mind. 10

THE COURT: Your client needs protection. I’m 11

just ready in all honesty just to swi--I can hear from Ms. 12

Gucciardo before I say what I’m ready to do. 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: That would be great. Thank you. 14

I appreciate that. 15

THE COURT: Because you were not going to like 16

it. (Indiscernible). 17

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor the re--the reality 18

of the situation is I think that Mr. Tsimhoni is ah--he 19

plays the system--you know he--when he goes for the 20

parenting time he says in Hebrew to the children, better 21

behave or I’ll destroy your mother. Obviously that upsets 22

the children, things don’t go well. My client has advised 23

me that um--that in addition to that mister--both of the 24

parents tal--were emailing each other and they agreed to 25

6

meet on Friday to discuss this. They both agreed to talk 1

about the parenting time on Friday. There’s no need to 2

come here to Court on an emergency basis, notifying of 3

this on Monday afternoon that we needed to be here, no 4

notice or anything like that. They had an agreement to 5

talk. But instead of just abiding by that, then he’s got 6

to get everybody all wound up and act like there’s a 7

problem. There’s not a problem here. She’s agreeable to 8

meet with him on Friday to work out a parenting plan. 9

Now I would note that the last time the--that 10

ah--the sit--the parenting time took place in Court I was 11

not here. I heard Mr. Lansat’s story and I heard my 12

client’s story as to what happened. And what my client 13

tells me is that ah--Mr. Lansat came out and told the 14

children that they were going to go to jail if they didn’t 15

um--if they didn’t go with their father right then and 16

there--that their mother was going to go to jail and the 17

children were terrified by that. And it went downhill 18

from there. And it was an aggressive situation. There is 19

a--there is a problem in terms of the children’s 20

relationship obviously with their father. It’s been an 21

ongoing problem and to have this kind of threat to their 22

mother, who they’re extremely bonded with, it didn’t make 23

things any better. She said that the only time that the 24

kids relaxed was when you came out and you gave them a 25

7

high five or something. I don’t know. I wasn’t here and 1

she’s got more to say about that situation but she’s 2

trying to facilitate this. All of the reports say she 3

tells them to go, tells them to do this, there’s not one 4

report that says that she’s not doing that. 5

The children have their own relationship with 6

their father. And as I have said over and over again, Dr. 7

Erard (ph) interviewed these kids while the Federal case 8

was going on. He verified that there is a tremendous 9

fracture between the parent--between Mr. Tsimhoni and the 10

children because they felt like he was trying to kidnap 11

them and keep them in that country against their will. 12

That’s a problem. As I’ve said before, him leaving the 13

country and choosing to work in Israel has not helped the 14

situation because we’ve got a fractured relationship--I 15

mean every single time that Omer comes back to see the 16

children there’s all of this--this ah--these feelings go--17

before the parenting time takes place, it never goes well. 18

He plays games, we talked about it the last time. The 19

kids do well at the restaurant, instead of doing that he 20

tries to change it and force it to something else. And he 21

forces, forces, forces things. He tries to force things 22

and change things so that the children get upset and it’s 23

an ongoing game and then he pre--tries to present that 24

she’s the problem. 25

8

She has bent over backwards to try and make sure 1

that this takes place. But then after it’s done it’s the 2

same--it’s the same thing. He leaves and they come back. 3

So any type of healing that they might have it’s 4

repetitive. It’s like ripping a Band-Aid off of a scab. 5

It just never stops, largely because he’s in a different 6

country and he’s not here to try and work out this 7

problem. 8

Mom has taken the children, taken--sat during 9

their um--dinners, allowed him to come to her house, done 10

everything she can think of to make this ti--this pl--take 11

place. It’s easy to blame her and look at her that she’s 12

the problem, she’s not, not one person can say that she’s 13

not there telling the kids to go. This is something that 14

he has created. He’s reaping what he’s sown and--and to 15

try and continuously blame her and--and say that you’re 16

ready to switch custody that’s not fair and that’s not in 17

the children’s best interest and there’s no evidence that 18

it’s her. It’s easy to point at her but when you look at 19

all of the--the things that mis--that Omer is doing and--20

and--and ah--the games that he plays and the manipulation, 21

that’s where you need to look at. That’s where the 22

problem is. 23

Now in terms of the parenting time, of course he 24

can have the parenting time. I don’t think it’s a good 25

9

idea to have the deputies do it again because they’re 1

afraid of the deputies ‘cuz of what happened last time. 2

And she can address that with you better but they’re 3

scarred by that. They were very, very upset by what 4

happened. 5

THE COURT: All right. Thank you Ms. Gucciardo. 6

You’re very eloquent. Ah--I just drafted up my own order 7

and I haven’t signed it yet but I’m about to. I started 8

the Lisa and I did the G. The Court finds by clear and 9

convincing evidence that it would endanger the children’s 10

mental health if they were to remain in mother’s custody. 11

The Court grants on a temporary basis sole and physical 12

custody to father pending an evidentiary hearing. I would 13

like to hear from you mother because I’m about to sign 14

orcyca onto the G. Because what I saw, mother, I am 15

scarred by it and if I’m scarred at almost 50 years old--16

I’ve never ever read a report like Mr. Lansat’s in 41,000 17

cases. I’ve never read a report like Ms. Steeb’s who--I 18

respect both of these people more than you would ever 19

know. Never read anything and the common denominator is 20

you. So I’m ready to put orcyca on it and then we’ll 21

figure it out. 22

MS. GUCCIARDO: Well your Honor I would-- 23

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor I would-- 24

THE COURT: And we’ll have a hearing--we’ll have 25

10

a hearing right away. 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: --you know what no--you know 2

what-- 3

THE COURT: Just wait, I want to hear from 4

mother. 5

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor just for the record, I 6

wasn’t asking for-- 7

THE COURT: I know you weren’t but I’ve had it. 8

I’ve had it. 9

MR LANSAT: --just--(indiscernible) mother I was 10

just asking to change the parenting time. 11

THE COURT: Clearly. Mom you’re the problem and 12

everybody but Ms. Gucciardo and yourself can see it. And 13

your poor little kids, the damage that you have done to 14

your little kids and I’ll make a great evidentiary hear--15

we’ll have the hearing, emergency we’ll do it right away. 16

We’ll bunk everybody--we’ll bump everybody, you can have 17

your hearing and then--you know what--we’ll--I’ll make a 18

nice record for the Court of Appeals. So you want to talk 19

to your attorney and then come out here and say something 20

to me? Because here it is, so you don’t think I’m lying, 21

I signed Lisa G and that’s official and I’m not gonna 22

sign--sign any stay that she’s gonna ask me for. And the 23

Court of Appeals may or may not hear it, because it’s not 24

a final order, so they’re not going to hear it so we’ll do 25

11

your hearing. I can do it on my own motion. 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor um-- 2

THE COURT: Well take a break-- 3

MS. GUCCIARDO: --thank you. 4

THE COURT: --Ms. Gucciardo, I knew what you 5

were going to say. 6

(At 11:20 a.m., proceeding recessed) 7

(At 11:27 a.m., proceeding recalled) 8

THE CLERK: Court recalls Eibschitz-Tsimhoni vs 9

Tsimhoni, case number 09-766749-DM. 10

MR. LANSAT: William Lansat, GAL your Honor. 11

THE COURT: So unfair. 12

MS. SPILMAN: Amy Spilman for Defendant. 13

MS. GUCCIARDO: Renee Gucciardo on behalf of the 14

Plaintiff. 15

THE COURT: You have any reco--res--any 16

resolution? Otherwise I’m gonna go ahead and sign this. 17

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor-- 18

THE COURT: Over your objection of course. 19

MS. GUCCIARDO: --well I--I would appreciate 20

that and--the reality is--is Maya is--and she’ll tell you 21

herself, she has attempted to facilitate the relationship 22

and she is going to continue to facil--to attempt to 23

facilitate that. She is in agreement with abiding by ah--24

the recommendation um--so she will do that and she will do 25

12

everything in her power to facilitate the relationship and 1

what she--what she’s always done and she’s going to 2

continue to do that. 3

THE COURT: I hope you don’t do what you’ve 4

always done because it’s pathetic. Pathetic. And you 5

know you’re lucky you have such a fabulous lawyer in Ms. 6

Gucciardo but nothing she says I believe and I--I mean 7

she’s saying it with a straight face, maybe she believes 8

it but I was there and I saw what little you did, you did 9

less than nothing. What--you did less with her, you did 10

less with him, we were there and we’re scarred and we’re 11

adults and your children deserve so much better than you 12

as their mother, and you have me for six more years and 13

two months. So I don’t think you’ve done enough. I think 14

it’s pathetic what you have done and obviously I’m 15

displeased is an understatement. 16

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor if-- 17

THE COURT: And you’re not gonna do it. Like 18

you didn’t comfort your children. You didn’t comfort your 19

children at all with Tracy Steeb. You didn’t comfort your 20

children at all with him. You didn’t comfort your 21

children in front of me. I can only imagine what you do 22

when we’re not around. It’s pathetic. It’s pathetic and 23

shameful. 24

MR. LANSAT: --your Honor if mother’s in 25

13

agreement to get the children--however she wants to do it, 1

one at a time or all three into dad’s car when he takes 2

those child--or children--you know for several hours or 3

whatever, if she’s willing to do it and it gets done, I 4

will be okay with that and we see where we go with it. 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor the recommendation 6

was that each child separately or together be placed in 7

the father’s car by father directly and proceed without 8

mother for several hours. Um--Art Gallagher should be 9

there and um--the initial park--pick up shall occur at the 10

courthouse parking lot with a deputy present. We’ll agree 11

by that. I think it’s good that there’s a deputy there 12

that can um--see what’s going on and to make sure that she 13

is attempting to facilitate this. She would like nothing 14

better than for Omer to have a good relationship with his 15

children. Nothing better. She just reiterated that again 16

in the hallway with me. That’s what she wants. She wants 17

him to have a good relationship with the children. Is 18

that true? 19

THE PLAINTIFF: Absolutely. 20

MR. LANSAT: And--and then your Honor if it--if 21

at that point there’s no success after a few days and we 22

do this, then I think you do what we need to do. But I’m 23

willing to give mother that chance. This is the best that 24

we can-- 25

14

THE COURT: How many chances? This case is from 1

’09. Your poor children are--are-- 2

MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor we need--if this is 3

gonna happen we need specific dates and times. 4

THE COURT: Was he--how long is he in Michigan 5

and then is he willing to take the kids to Israel? I mean 6

is he wanting this? I don’t even know if he wants it so 7

I’ll have to hold off when he’s here. 8

MS. SPILMAN: I would want him to be here your 9

Honor. I don’t know what his circumstances are-- 10

THE COURT: ‘Cuz maybe-- 11

MS. SPILMAN: --he will be here this evening-- 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor with all due respect 13

you can’t do an order changing custody without having a 14

hearing. You can’t. We--there’s no-- 15

THE COURT: Ms. Gucciardo I can actually I can, 16

I have, and I will. 17

MS. GUCCIARDO: --there’s--there’s no notice for 18

today’s hearing, there’s no motion-- 19

THE COURT: So I’m gonna hold this off-- 20

MS. GUCCIARDO: --there’s no pending motion-- 21

THE COURT: --I’m gonna put this in the file, my 22

private file, and um--we’ll see how it goes and then if 23

he’s willing to do it--if he wants to do it and has a plan 24

for--until we have the hearing. Mom you don’t get it. 25

15

You never will. I don’t think you are--you know what--all 1

these people that don’t--can’t have kids. 2

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor can we have the order 3

then I will--it’s in the JOD anyways um--if there’s--if 4

there’s a disagreement on how to do it logistically I’ll 5

just decide that that’s how it’s gonna be. Maybe we 6

should come back next Wednesday, see how things are going 7

in the morning. Ms. Gucciardo will have more time and 8

we’ll see if this works. If this works, this is great. 9

MS. SPILMAN: Your Honor he’s here from this 10

evening, he’s available to see the kids starting on 11

Friday. He has work meetings tomorrow. I know he’s 12

available all weekend, after six on Monday and Tuesday. 13

Wednesday, if you wanted him to be here I believe he’s 14

available but he has--I think he has a work meeting 15

between eight and 10, so if we can make it later in your 16

docket call that would be fine, but I’m a little--not 17

comfortable leaving it just completely up in the air. I 18

think there needs to-- 19

THE COURT: The balls in your court. 20

MR. LANSAT: No we’ll get an order. 21

MS. SPILMAN: Whatever he wants? 22

THE COURT: The balls in your court and it’s 23

about to be more in your court. 24

MR. LANSAT: I think we should draft an order 25

16

now while were here. 1

MS. SPILMAN: So the-- 2

THE COURT: And I’m here all next week and you 3

can come in on an emergency basis any time to have the 4

motion heard. I’ll waive notice. 5

MS. SPILMAN: So I’m not clear what we’re 6

ordering that there’s going to be parenting time as the 7

parties agree and if they don’t then we’ll be back here on 8

Wednesday and-- 9

MR. LANSAT: No. The parenting time will be as 10

what mother indicated, that I--that Omer will either get 11

one child at a time or all three, I don’t care, um--into 12

his car, um--to--to meet in the-- 13

THE COURT: It’s not gonna work. I mean it’s 14

not gonna work because mom’s not gonna encourage it at 15

all. 16

UNIDENTIFIED FEMAEL SPEAKER: That’s fine. 17

MR. LANSAT: --well (indiscernible)--in the 18

parking lot, we’ll try it Friday with the deputy. Mr. 19

Gallagher’s not around but he gave me the name of someone 20

else. The only reason I want him there is a witness, 21

that’s the only reason. 22

THE COURT: We definitely need a witness. 23

MR. LANSAT: And we’ll see what happens--and 24

we’ll do it Saturday and Sunday. 25

17

THE COURT: And it didn’t work with all those 1

police officers, with you, with me, with you-- 2

MR. LANSAT: There were six. 3

THE COURT: --with my-- 4

MS. GUCCIARDO: Can--can--may she say something, 5

she wants to address the Court. 6

THE COURT: Yes. 7

THE PLAINTIFF: I want to ah--say a few things, 8

one is um--I--I hope you will believe me I--from the 9

bottom of my heart I want them to have a good relationship 10

with their father and I have so--so um--I--I don’t want 11

anybody to think differently. Two is um--in the past over 12

many, many months the kids have no problem going--they--I 13

would drop them off, they would go to have visitation for 14

um--for ah--a long time and--and I was not around and then 15

Omer asked that I would be around and I was around and so 16

there was no problem. And I think the um--the um--17

intimidation that has been caused with this 18

(indiscernible) and Mr. Lansat’s threats and Mr. Lansat 19

had told them that it’s their responsibility that their 20

grandfather will die and--and all that just upsets them 21

and--and if there are--if the visit starts with 22

intimidation and threats and--and force it creates a 23

situation that is hard to overcome. I think on the 24

contrary I think if we don’t use force and--and threats 25

18

and let--and you’ve never heard of what really happened. 1

You only hear Mr. Lansat’s report that is based on his--on 2

Omer’s report to Mr. Lansat and it kind of escalates to a 3

level that was not even the case and if we (indiscernible) 4

on things that did work and go from there it will I think 5

number one the kids will have um--will be comfortable, 6

they will feel happy and--and we have to give it a real 7

chance. Every--every time something started to go in the 8

right direction immediately they come to you and complain 9

and you hear the worst things and you think, like Mr. 10

Lansat puts in his report, compares it to serial killers 11

and I don’t know illusional--delusional accusations that I 12

think he should actually apologize for, ah--we are not 13

serial killers. 14

THE COURT: The only person who should apologize 15

is you. 16

THE PLAINTIFF: We’re not serial kill-- 17

THE COURT: The only one who apologize should be 18

you because I completely agreed with what I saw, what he 19

wrote, I completely agree with. 20

THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t been outside before-21

-before-- 22

MR. LANSAT: Well you know in a-- 23

THE COURT: I was watching. I watched 24

everything and I heard everything. 25

19

THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t heard what Mr. 1

Lansat told them-- 2

MR. LANSAT: Your Honor here--you know what 3

here’s the situation-- 4

THE COURT: I agree with him. 5

MR. LANSAT: --I’m trying to help her out-- 6

THE COURT: I’m not apologizing either. 7

MR. LANSAT: --not to--you’re about to change 8

physical custody-- 9

THE COURT: She doesn’t get it. 10

MR. LANSAT: --so all we’re--she doesn’t get it-11

-all we’re hearing is she wants to blame me--blame this-- 12

THE PLAINTIFF: I get it. I get it. 13

THE COURT: You don’t. 14

MR. LANSAT: --your Honor it hasn’t worked for 15

four years. You know I’m trying to help--there’s not even 16

no point. 17

THE PLAINTIFF: Because it’s cut off-- 18

THE COURT: There is no point. 19

THE PLAINTIFF: --because every time-- 20

THE COURT: There is no point. You know what, 21

when Judge McDonald heard your case in my absence, Judge 22

McDonald said your kids don’t run the show. You’re like 23

the only parent that lets kids run the show. You. Judge 24

McDonald said that to you. You can think all you want 25

20

about me, I didn’t hear your case because Judge McDonald 1

heard it and Judge McDonald had nothing nice to say about 2

you. 3

THE PLAINTIFF: I--I actually thought that your 4

approach was the best approach. You came out, you were 5

kind to them, I said to you look Judge Gorcyca is--I said 6

to the kids look Judge Gorcyca is so nice, she’s going to 7

hear you, she’s going to listen to you, and your technique 8

works. But every time we’re going one step forward it’s 9

interrupted by complaints and accusations and--and that 10

are not--not exactly what happened. 11

THE COURT: I don’t know why your children would 12

know that. 13

THE PLAINTIFF: Sorry? 14

THE COURT: Your children shouldn’t have known 15

their father had a complaint about you or the way the 16

visits went. 17

THE PLAINTIFF: He says that to them when--in 18

the initial visit, he threatens all of us in the initial 19

visit. 20

THE COURT: No--I don’t-- 21

THE PLAINTIFF: And--and then it sets a bad 22

(indiscernible). 23

THE COURT: --I find you incredible--I actually 24

find you less than credible. I don’t--I don’t believe 25

21

you. 1

THE PLAINTIFF: I--I wish--I wish one time you 2

would give me a chance-- 3

THE COURT: I did. 4

THE PLAINTIFF: --to--no--no it was always 5

interrupted-- 6

THE COURT: In that--out there in the hall and 7

there and that you--okay let’s just say, what Tracy Ray 8

Staid (ph) said about you--say the worse thing that you 9

wrote. 10

MS. STEEB: That when I directed mom to leave 11

and go to lunch to allow the visitation on the second day 12

mom refused to leave the building and in fact sat in this 13

courtroom for several hours. 14

THE PLAINTIFF: Because when--because when--15

because when I asked-- 16

THE COURT: I don’t think that’s the worst, I 17

think the worst is that fact that you didn’t comfort your 18

children and let them know it was okay. That’s what I was 19

going for. 20

THE PLAINTIFF: No I--that’s not true-- 21

THE COURT: How do you not comfort a kid? How 22

do you not? Like-- 23

THE PLAINTIFF: What do you mean I didn’t 24

comfort? Of course I--they were--one minute-- 25

22

THE COURT: Ms. Steeb what do you have to say? 1

THE PLAINTIFF: --one minute, number one I think 2

Ms. Steeb saw them after the event outside which was very 3

bad for them and didn’t help with creating a positive 4

environment so of course mister--Ms. Steeb’s report starts 5

with they came in crying. Well why did they come in 6

crying? Because they were just accused of killing their 7

grandfather. 8

MR. LANSAT: Oh my God. Your Honor-- 9

THE PLAINTIFF: And then--and then-- 10

MR. LANSAT: --it--it’s so-- 11

THE PLAINTIFF: --and then saying that your mom 12

will go to jail-- 13

MR. LANSAT: --maybe you should just--you know 14

what your Honor if she contin--if she continues to talk, 15

change custody. I’m done. 16

THE COURT: Do you know that Mr. Lansat is 17

getting an award--a massive award for being an advocate 18

for kids at the end of this month? Okay. Mr. Lansat is 19

so respected by every Judge here, you think I--I’ll just 20

(indiscernible) by myself, any other Judge likes him more 21

than I do. 22

THE PLAINTIFF: I think Mr. Lansat had lied to 23

you in the summer to say that--that my time out of the 24

country was not approved when in fact it was and Mr. 25

23

Lansat knew it-- 1

MR. LANSAT: Ma’am do you--ma’am-- 2

THE PLAINTIFF: --and my father was not able to 3

go-- 4

THE COURT: Doesn’t get it. 5

MR. LANSAT: --ma’am do you want the Judge to 6

enter an order changing custody today? 7

THE COURT: It might have been the best thing. 8

MR. LANSAT: Yes or no. 9

THE COURT: Do you agree to it? 10

THE PLAINTIFF: No, of course not, I’m trying 11

to--to explain that this violent approach of escalating 12

force, bringing police and pushing them and for--and 13

threatening them is--is con--is not going to--to-- 14

MR. LANSAT: We tried--we’ve tried the dog. 15

We’ve tried--we’ve tried-- 16

THE PLAINTIFF: You haven’t tried the dog. 17

MR. LANSAT: --there’s no point. Thank--your 18

Honor may I be excused and we’ll get the order done? 19

THE COURT: There’s no point. 20

MR. LANSAT: Thank you. 21

THE PLAINTIFF: You have not. Kids wanted the 22

dog and Omer complained that the dog is in the way and you 23

removed the dog. 24

THE COURT: Yeah so, talk to dad about the 25

24

emergency motion. 1

THE PLAINTIFF: I--I think--I’m sad to say that-2

-you know-- 3

THE COURT: It’s done. I’m holding this on 4

emergency motion. Next week we’ll hear it changing 5

custody. 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: Are you in agreement to 7

facilitate the parenting time-- 8

THE PLAINTIFF: Of course I am in agreement. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: --are you in agreement to 10

facilitate the recommendation by miss-- 11

THE COURT: What is the disconnect. 12

THE PLAINTIFF: --of course, when Ms. Steeb 13

asked me to step outside the lady outside said please wait 14

in the courtroom. I didn’t me--what-- 15

THE COURT: She has such as disconnect. 16

THE PLAINTIFF: Of course I will facilitate and 17

Omer wrote me an email, he wants to meet and talk about 18

the best approach and I think it will benefit the kids too 19

if he sees that--if they see that their parents work 20

together to help and not see their father keep attacking 21

the mother for things that are not even true. 22

MS. SPILMAN: She never responded to his email. 23

He-- 24

THE PLAINTIFF: I have. 25

25

MS. GUCCIARDO: They agreed to meet on Friday. 1

THE PLAINTIFF: I have and there is a copy--2

there was copies sent-- 3

THE COURT: Well good luck on that meeting on 4

Friday. It will be the most important one for you. 5

THE PLAINTIFF: I’m sorry? 6

MS. GUCCIARDO: The parties agreed to meet on 7

Friday but they’re gonna work out the parenting time. 8

THE COURT: Your parenting time is going to be 9

the most important time of your life--facilitating this 10

for dad. 11

THE PLAINTIFF: And--and I want it--I want-- 12

THE COURT: All right we’ll let’s--we’ll just 13

see if you can actually have emotion that make your 14

children feel good. 15

THE PLAINTIFF: But I need-- 16

THE COURT: Let’s just see if you have that as a 17

mother. Maybe you don’t. Maybe you have this-- 18

THE PLAINTIFF: I do. I do. 19

THE COURT: --massive disconnect that everyone 20

sees but you and your Counsel. 21

THE PLAINTIFF: I do but I can’t--I do but I 22

can’t do it with my (indiscernible) if you go--if--if-- 23

THE COURT: Okay. Do your kids like going to 24

the dentist? They like getting their teeth pulled, 25

26

cavities filled-- 1

THE PLAINTIFF: They actually do. 2

THE COURT: --or do they go-- 3

THE PLAINTIFF: They go because--they go. But 4

I--I wanna say that if--that I wanna do it my way. That 5

is a kind and--and respectful way. 6

THE COURT: It’s not working. Your--your way-- 7

THE PLAINTIFF: It is. It’s always interrupted. 8

THE COURT: --your way is the worst. I’ve not 9

seen it in 41,000 cases. You are the worst-- 10

THE PLAINTIFF: That’s because every time it 11

starts to work-- 12

THE COURT: --case and it’s all on you. It’s on 13

you. 14

THE PLAINTIFF: --he complains to the Court and-15

-and everything is changed. 16

THE COURT: You can’t convince me--the best GAL 17

in the world just walked out on you. You don’t get it. 18

THE PLAINTIFF: No I do he--he’s responsible 19

for-- 20

THE COURT: So Ms. Gucciardo I really hope that 21

you can relay to her-- 22

THE PLAINTIFF: --Mother’s Day by lying to the 23

Court this summer. 24

THE COURT: --try--good luck Ms. Gucciardo, it’s 25

27

gonna be very hard for you to do. 1

MS. GUCCIARDO: Your Honor I--I have discussed 2

that and I again reiterate, she’s going to facilitate the 3

relationship-- 4

THE COURT: Okay. 5

MS. GUCCIARDO: --and if something is working I 6

would ask that it continue and not change it. 7

THE COURT: That would be great. That would be 8

great. 9

MS. GUCCIARDO: Not say we’re gonna do this and 10

try and shove something else down their throat-- 11

THE COURT: That’d be great. 12

MS. GUCCIARDO: --and then come to Court and say 13

there’s a problem, ‘cuz that’s-- 14

THE COURT: This is it. This is it for you. 15

MS. GUCCIARDO: --it’s a vicious cycle. If Mr. 16

Tsimhoni wants this work he needs to make it work and let 17

what’s working work. Because otherwise these kids are--18

it’s never gonna-- 19

THE COURT: All right. Good luck. Thank you. 20

Thank you, very well said, Ms. Gucciardo. Ms. Spilman 21

too. 22

MS. SPILMAN: Okay, thank you your Honor. 23

THE COURT: Tracy the Court appreciates the 24

effort you have put. 25

28

MS. STEEB: Thank you Judge. 1

THE COURT: All right. I’ll sign the order. 2

(At 11:42 a.m., proceeding concluded) 3

* * * * * *4

29

STATE OF MICHIGAN )

COUNTY OF OAKLAND )ss.

I certify that this transcript is a true and accurate

transcription to the best of my ability of the proceeding in

this case before the Honorable Lisa Gorcyca, as recorded by the

clerk.

Proceedings were recorded and provided to this

transcriptionist by the Circuit Court and this certified

reporter accepts no responsibility for any events that occurred

during the above proceedings, for any inaudible and/or

indiscernible responses by any person or party involved in the

proceeding or for the content of the recording provided.

Dated: November 24, 2014

___/S/ Sandra J. Traskos__________

Sandra Traskos, CER 7118