Industry Workshop for Professional Engineers presentations and design & panel discussion_facilitation by Ashish Shah

Industry Workshop for Professional EngineersFunded by Southern Regional Road Group of The Road and Transport Alliance

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Industry Workshop for PE

Concept, research and led by Logan City Council (Ashish Shah)

Funded and supported by Southern Regional Roads Group

– Road Alliance (Transport and Main Roads and LGAQ)– Logan City Council– Redland City Council– Gold Coast City Council

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Industry Workshop I for PE11:00am – 11:30am

"What is unsatisfactory professional conduct for a Registered Professional Engineer of Queensland" Julie Mitchell

11:30am – 12:00pm

"Do Professional Engineers need to clarify obligations and improve recognition of their profession?" Ashish Shah and Chris Lenz

12:00pm -12:45pm

RPEQ Panel Discussion: Facilitator Ashish Shah

"Professional Engineering Services – Practitioner, Employer, Professional Development and Risk Perspective" 1st of the series funded by Road Alliance Southern Regional Roads Technical Group.

Panel : Chris Lenz, Murray Erbs, Aneurin Hughes, Julie Mitchell, Kamal Ranaweera

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11:00am – 11:30am

"What is unsatisfactory professional conduct for a Registered Professional

Engineer of Queensland"

by Julie Mitchell

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11:30am – 12:00pm

"Do Professional Engineers need to clarify obligations and

improve recognition of their profession?"

by Ashish Shah &Chris Lenz

Do Professional Engineers need to clarify obligations and improve recognition of their profession?

By Ashish Shah, Chris Lenz

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Audience Poll

Do Professional Engineers need to clarify obligations

and

improve recognition of their profession?

Context: Public Sector

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Why and How?

• I and fellow PEs• My journey so far• Capability Development Fund

– Self research, peer knowledge share – Experts input

– Workshop/Panel discussion– Webinar, group discussion, LinkedIn pulse

– Surveys– BPEQ resource pack, discussion paper, submissions

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Curiosity on

• Comparing PE Act, Public Sector Act and W H & S Act– Have public safety and ethics– Varied obligation sharing with Employer vs Individual

Professional – How are they designed, treated and implemented/ funded

• Comparing Professional Engineer’s system to Medical and Legal system of registration, obligations and recognition

• Comparing PE systems overseas

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Let’s put fines & who is liable under the PE Act in context.

Work Health and Safety Act 2011 (QLD)1. Primary duty of care on those conducting a business [s19]2. Duties also imposed on persons conducting businesses or managing workplaces that construct, manufacture, design,

importing etc. [s20 to 26]3. Duty of officer conducting the business [s27], BUT NOTE4. Duty of worker [s28]5. Duty of other persons at a workplace [s29]

BASICALLY EVERYONE IS CAUGHT BY THE ACT AND THE STATE CAN BE CIVILLY LIABLE [s10]

6. Range of offences or penalties [Part 2 Division 5]a. Reckless conduct – category 1 is a crime and penalty:

i. – individual conductor of business - 6000 penalty units (over $660,000) or 5 years imprisonmentii. Body corporate 30,000 penalty units (over $3,3million)

7. Incident notification [Part 3] and Act is very strong on investigation8. Duty to consult [Part 5 Division 1]

THIS IS A BIG STICK TO ANYONE – PARTICULARLY THE BOSS!

So, Chris Lenz

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A Professional’s obligations

http://www.mvy.com/play-here/lighthouses.aspx


In order to put being an RPEQ in context and get some clarity about an RPEQ’s obligations

Let’s briefly look at Professional obligations:a. the 5 original professions & their legislation;b. Professional engineering in the USA

Improved recognition of RPEQ’s• Understand how professional recognition can be

improved

Professional Obligations

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Engineering is 1 of the 5 original professions

“The five traditional professions are:architecture, clergy, engineering, law and medicine.

The usual reason for classifying the five traditional professions is on the traditional 'definition' of a profession having (1) a specialised and institutionalised training or education, (2) a statutory qualification, (3) formal apprenticeship, (4) code of ethics, (5) regulatory oversight by the government (or self-regulating), and (6) the person be a member of a professional body in order to practice his occupation. In short, the profession has "corporate solidarity.“”

http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-professions?


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Taking the profession definition of quora which is a good one:(1)a specialised and institutionalised training or education(2)a statutory qualification (3) formal apprenticeship

THESE GET YOU THROUGH THE GATE, AND THEN IN PRACTICE: (4)code of ethics, (5) regulatory oversight by the government (or self-regulating), and (6) the person be a member of a professional body in order to practice his

occupation.

This theme applies throughout the 5 professions identified below, and in my opinion the key to being a professional [of whatever profession] is to:1. abide by the Code of Conduct; and 2. maintain your skills through appropriate selection of your CPD


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Legislation for those Professions1. Architects – Architects Act 2002 (QLD) - almost identical to PE Act – word for

word - 167 Sections and 100 pages – part of National Legislation2. Clergy –No Australian legislation as it is prohibited by s116 of the Constitution 3. Engineering – Professional Engineers Act 2002 (“PE Act”) - 171 sections and

121 pages QLD ONLY4. Law – Legal Profession Act 2007 –780 sections and 582 pages! – moving

towards National Legislation5. Medicine – Health Practitioner Regulation National Law Act 2009 (QLD) – 305

sections and 345 pages [part of the National Legislation]

RPEQ IS QUEENSLAND ONLYSimilar to the USA, where each State licenses professional engineers


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Medicine1. Health Practitioner Regulation National Law Act 2009 (QLD)2. Registered by the Medical Board of Australia as a “medical practitioner” or

“medical specialist” NB. “Doctor” is not a protected title3. The National Board has a board in each State in Australia4. They have a Code of Conduct – s39 of the Act5. Practice means any role, whether remunerated or not, in which the individual uses their skills and

knowledge as a health practitioner in their profession. For the purposes of this registration standard, practice is not restricted to the provision of direct clinical care. It also includes using professional knowledge in a direct nonclinical relationship with clients, working in management, administration, education, research, advisory, regulatory or policy development roles, and any other roles that impact on safe, effective delivery of services in the profession.

6. Continuing professional development is the means by which members of the profession maintain, improve and broaden their knowledge, expertise and competence, and develop the personal qualities required in their professional lives.

7. Medical practitioners do minimum of 50 hours CPD per year


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Law [Very heavily regulated profession]1. Legal Profession Act 2007 and Legal Profession Regulation 20072. s34 - Apply for the Supreme Court for admission3. s35 - Supreme Court admits you as a lawyer to the legal profession4. Code of Ethics of the Law Society (solicitors) and barristers conduct rules5. Solicitors 10 Hours CPD a year which must include at least:

a. 1 hour of practical legal ethicsb. 1 hour of practice management and business skillsc. 1 hour of professional skills, which comprise:

i. Communication and interpersonal skillsii. Client interviewingiii. Plain English draftingiv. Negotiation and mediation skillsv. Career and personal developmentvi. Advocacyvii. Legal research

6. Therefore not at all prescriptive about maintaining actual knowledge of the law



EngineersProfessional Engineers in the USA

1. Engineers must complete several steps to demonstrate competency.a. Earn a four-year degree in engineering b. Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering (FE) examc. Complete four years of progressive engineering experience under a

PEd. Pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering (PE) exam

2. You register for a licence in each State where you practice3. No CPD in 6 States of USA – Others range from 15 to 60, average 30

hours per year with some requiring minimum hours in each area of practicehttp://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

IN THE US, THE HURDLE IS QUALIFYING FOR YOUR PE STATUS


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Essentially, the PE Act relies upon:1. One of the assessment entities for technical competence assessment [s10] and

then; 2. Focusses on fitness to practice including having no convictions, not affected by

bankruptcy or insolvency and being mentally and physically fit [s11];

THIS GETS YOU REGISTERED

and thereafter the PE Act relies upon your declaration that:3. You have adhered to the CPD requirements of one of the assessment entities [s16];

and4. You are fit to practice.

YOUR FOCUS SHOULD THEN BE ON: 5. HOW TO MAINTAIN YOUR RPEQ STATUS; AND 6. WHAT YOU SHOULD BE DOING

PE act

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In order to comply with the PE Act Julie’s last 2 slides are excellent visual aids to assist you to avoid professional difficulties, and assist your lawyer to help you – just in case! Therefore:1. Focus on the Code of Practice for your conduct (“COP”)

[https://www.bpeq.qld.gov.au/iMIS15/BPEQ/]; and the2. PPIR protocol for your professional obligations [COP3.1]

[https://www.ppir.com.au]3. However, it is really important for you to focus on doing the right thing.4. In your CPD therefore, even though you can satisfy the minimum requirement

with a wide range of offerings, you can only practice in your area of competence [COP 3.5], so you should include CPD in these area/s

5. Principle 1 on the COP raises a possible ethical dilemma you may face is when your obligations to the community [COP1.3] conflicts with your obligation to the client and/or employer [COP1.1]

IN THAT EVENT, I SUGGEST LOOKING AT THE ENGINEER’S CREED FOR GUIDANCE

RPEQ Obligations

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As a Professional Engineer, I dedicate my professional knowledge and skill to the advancement and betterment of human welfare.

I pledge: To give the utmost of performance; To participate in none but honest enterprise; To live and work according to the laws of man and the highest standards of

professional conduct; To place service before profit, the honour and standing of the profession before

personal advantage, and the public welfare above all other considerations.

In humility and with need for Divine Guidance, I make this pledge.Adopted by National Society of Professional Engineers (USA), June 1954

A Roman aqueduct [built circa 19 BC] near Pont du Gard, France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_engineering

Don’t you think this Roman engineer followed the creed?

Engineers' Creed


Improved recognition

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Lenz MoretonEngineering & Construction Lawyers

IMPROVED PROFESSIONAL RECOGNITIONWhat is a professional engineer?

The US National Society of Professional Engineers • To a client, it means you've got the credentials to earn

their trust. • To an employer, it signals your ability to take on a higher

level of responsibility. • Among your colleagues, it demands respect. • To yourself, it's a symbol pride and measure of your own

hard-won achievement. (My underlining)http://www.nspe.org/resources/licensure/what-pe

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IMPROVED PROFESSIONAL RECOGNITION1. If you have passed through the gate to registration; AND

THEN2. Adhere to the Code of ethics; and3. Sensibly select your CPD to maintain and enhance

technical skills, doing more than the minimum;4. You will have the self confidence and can take pride in

being an engineer in a Local or State Government who are the front-line deliverers of engineering solutions for the benefit of their local community

http://www.mvy.com/play-here/lighthouses.aspxPlease practice ethically & safely


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Last from Ashish before Q & A to Chris

IMPROVED PROFESSIONAL RECOGNITIONSomeone asked an engineer, Why you feel proud of being an engineer?

He smiled and told thatA lawyer's income increases with increase in crime and litigation (and also some weirdly drafted laws!!).

A doctor's income increases with increase in diseases / illness.

But an engineer's income increases with increase in prosperity of people and nation (and hopefully also via improved recognition through some well drafted laws!!). .

Feel proud to be an "Engineer“ and further raise the awareness of Engineer’s contributions!!!!

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Ask Questions but be prepared with Lawyer’s answers (it depends type!!! oops)

Please do ask he is your fellow Registered Professional Engineer of QLD too!!!

Questions to Chris Lenz


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12:00 – 12:45

RPEQ Panel Discussion: Facilitator Ashish Shah

"Professional Engineering Services – Practitioner, Employer, Professional Development and Risk Perspective" 1st of the series funded by Road Alliance Southern Regional Roads Technical Group.

Panel : Chris Lenz, Murray Erbs, Aneurin Hughes, Julie Mitchell, Kamal Ranaweera

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Group discussion

• 12.00 PM or 12.00 AM session?

• Sun rises and sets or Earth rotates @ sun daily– and Sun is almost static from earth’s daily rotational perspective

• Professional Engineering Services (yes/ no/ may be)– Infrastructure Planning– Asset Management– Asset Valuations

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Panel and Facilitator

Aneurin Hughes

| Senior Principal & Discipline Leader |

Cardno

Ashish Shah

| Road Asset Management Program

Leader | Logan City Council

Chris Lenz

| Principal | Lenz Moreton Engineering

and Construction Lawyers

Julie Mitchell

| Chief Engineer | Department of

Transport and Main Roads

Kamal Ranaweera

| Manager Road Infrastructure

Planning | Logan City Council

Murray Erbs

| Group Manager City Infrastructure |

Redland City Council

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Panel and FacilitatorAneurin Hughes - Consultant RPEQ perspective

| Senior Principal & Discipline Leader |

Cardno

Ashish Shah - Facilitator

| Road Asset Management Program Leader |

Logan City Council

Chris Lenz - Lawyer RPEQ perspective

| Principal | Lenz Moreton Engineering and

Construction Lawyers

Julie Mitchell - State Gov RPEQ perspective

| Chief Engineer | Department of Transport

and Main Roads

Kamal Ranaweera - LG RPEQ and Manager perspective

| Manager Road Infrastructure Planning |

Logan City Council

Murray Erbs - Interstate RPEQ perspective

| Group Manager City Infrastructure |

Redland City Council

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Opening questions

Q1: What motivated you to accept the nomination to be on the panel?

Q2: How would you describe your pride being Professional Engineer in one sentence or two?

Q3: In your own words, what qualities makes a better professional engineer?

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Q4: What Professional Development activities (informal rather than formal conference/ training) would you suggest to your peer RPEQs?

Q5: What Professional Development would undertake if there was no time/ resource constraint to become improved RPEQ?

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Q6: What formal professional development you undertook or supported your staff in last 2 years?

Q7: Having experiencing budget constraints becoming more challenging than ever, what advise you would provide to your peers in achieving or exceeding continuous professional development?

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Q8: How can supervised (by an RPEQ) non-RPEQ technical staff provide perceived engineering advice directly to people (for example in an email directly to an enquirer)

Q9: How would you motivate your RPEQ or to be RPEQ staff to achieve or exceed continuous professional development?

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Targeted outcomes

• Enhanced clarity and hence RPEQ delivers his/her obligations better (by individuals / employers /senior managements)

• How to encourage innovation within PE act constraints• Communication with HR/Procurement• Risk of not inventing in Professional Engineers• LGs and SGs are frontline professional engineering service provider

• Why not Employer RPEQ obligations, why it changed from Employer to individual?

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Targeted outcomes

• Improving quality management systems (improved record keeping)

• Understanding risk and communication• Career development pathways• What’s in for a practitioner to be an RPEQ• Asset Management aspects (not design and construction only)

• A Specific Webinar session on executive/senior management

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What Next

• Another workshop/ panel discussion at Logan City Council on 6th August (in conjunction with Regional Asset Management Group workshop, our SEQ Collaborative professional group)

• I would love to talk to each of you who have any curiosity / question or confusion– If I can’t , I will try to direct u to the person who may

help• Webinar series • Further next, support and funding to be sought

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What next?

• This would be a continuous improvement journey

• But immediate next is Lunch and Networking Break

(Many thanks to our Half Day Participants for joining as they r leaving us after Lunch)

• Please come n see us in our display area to talk more/ leave your questions/ comments or suggestions