Show 9 with Todd Cella of Utah Basement, Kitchen and Bath

Interviews with Today’s Top Remodeling Entrepreneurs http://www.remodelersontherise.com

Show 9: Todd Cella of Utah Basement Kitchen and Bath shares

the unique way he hires (he has 35 employees), how cancer

changed his life and gave him new ‘goggles’, the speed of trust,

and how he developed a concise and compelling guarantee for

his business

Kyle: Welcome to Remodelers on the Rise! I am your host, Kyle Hunt. And alongside me is Ryan Paul Adams. Ryan, I usually say “Howdy?” or “What’s up?” But I’m changing it. It’s now, “What’s the baby countdown?” How much longer before you guys have the next baby? Ryan: Baby #3! Let’s see. Middle of May, so anywhere from, probably 6 weeks or so. Kyle: So that’s next month or technically, it could be this month! How do you feel about that? Must be freaking you out? Ryan: Oh man! I don’t know. It’s going to be controlled chaos – more chaotic than controlled. Kyle: I could imagine. From man to man defense, zone defense is the key. So this is Remodelers on the Rise Podcast #9. And we’ll get started by introducing today’s guest. It’s Todd Cella with Utah Basement, Kitchen and Bath out of Layton, Utah. Todd started working with his Dad, Bob, in 1992 as a Finish Carpenter. After completing years of training, he was able to step into the sales role for the company. And for the past several years, he was able to take the reigns in 2014 as the President. They have 35 employees and have completed over 1000 remodeling projects just in the last 5 years. So Todd, welcome! Todd: It’s good to be here. Thanks for having me. Kyle: So the focus of this show is really about you, your business and your experience. I just gave you a quick introduction and I’d like to turn it over to you and


have you briefly tell us about you personally, maybe outside of the business and also, more about your business. Todd: We have kind of an interesting back story. In 2007, we had about 60 to 70 framers and we were running a bunch of framing crews for one of the largest builders in the state. And the economy just plummeted. My brother and my Dad, we just looked at each other and said, “What are we going to do?” And my brother said, “You know what, let’s go finish basements. If people aren’t buying and building homes, then they are going to be remodeling what they have.” And so we said, “Great!” We put it on paper. And picked up a couple of jobs from friends and family. My brother looked at me after a couple of jobs. He said, “Todd, what do you think can we do this for? I think we can do it for $9 to $10 per square foot.” And I said, “Let’s do it for $14 per foot. We’ll name it finish for $14.” He said, “Ok!” So we’ll make a 1000 square foot basement, we’ll make $4000 to $5000. Okay, that works for me. So we did that. We put up a billboard on I-15, the freeway going right to the valley here. And then our phone just started ringing and we just grew the business that way. Eventually, it evolved to what it is. That was our training on the job to become what we are now. Kyle: Sounds like a bit of a marketing brain you got there. Todd: I’d be honest. I’m a good contractor but I’m better at the marketing aspect. I really enjoy talking to people about what we do. Kyle: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about you personally? So people know who Todd Cella is outside the office. Todd: Todd Cella is a family man. When I have time, I’m a family man. I’ve got 4 kids. I kind of have an adventurous life. I had to learn the right way to do things. I’ve got some good experiences under my belt.


I’ve dealt with cancer personally. And I kind of had my eyes open to what’s really important – this hopefully, 70 to 80 years I have on this earth. And really enjoying what I do everyday. Kyle: Awesome! I can’t help but smile when you said, “When I have time, I’m a family man.” It’s about making time. Talk to us about that, about work-life balance especially considering the stuff you have been through – “the opening of the eyes on those things”. Todd: It’s been hard. I hate to say it. But I work 60 to 70 hours a week. And if I’m not actually working, I am thinking about work. It is all consuming when you are at the top and you are responsible for the livelihood, I feel like I’m responsible of the livelihood every person under me. And it’s a weight. I actually got my wife into this with me. And it’s all we talk about. It’s our pillow talk. How awful is that? Ryan: Well, it depends. If you really enjoy what you do and it’s your passion. I don’t know, is there really anything wrong with that? Some people might say that’s a problem while other people don’t see it as that. I tend to think that it’s not the worst thing in the world. If you’re passionate and it’s a bond between you two and you like what you do, then why not? Todd: It’s true. Kyle: what she says is the question. Todd: I don’t know. I’ve asked her. There’s very little romance in our marriage. Kyle: We’ll help you out with that. I mean, between Ryan and me, we’re the two most romantic people in the world. Ryan: How many kids, Todd? Todd: I’ve got 4 kids. Ryan: Yeah, so you’re busy.


Todd, I just heard a great podcast recently with Dan Sullivan and Joe Polish on their 10x Talk Podcast. And they were talking about hiring a good Project Manager and the difference that it can make and what that brings to your ability to grow your revenue 3x, 4x, even 10x. You have 35 employees. Can you talk about what you look for in hiring a great Project Manager? And the reason I bring it up is so many remodelers struggle with hiring this position correctly. And I just didn’t know if there is something you can lend, where you’ve been able to hire so many good people. Todd: It’s hard. And in Utah, it’s a bit different. There’s a very entrepreneurial mindset here. All these big families, family oriented area that we live in, and lots of family businesses here. You always have to be wary about hiring your competition and training them and letting them use your systems. But I found that, if I can just focus on just 50% on who they are, their character and 50% on their competence, right there is a complete package for me. I can trust them with my clients. I can trust them with the funds of the company, driving our vehicles and representing me and my reputation. That’s what I’m looking for. Even on the competence side, I’ll even let a lot of things slide because those can easily be trained. And I can educate. But if the character’s missing, well, I can’t fix character. Ryan: That’s a tough one to measure in a job interview – the character. Is there some type of test you’re putting them through? Or is it, you are judging some of the referrals? How are you going about getting into the character quickly? Todd: My interviews are kind of different. I am not too focused on the generic questions. I’m just genuinely trying to get to know someone. In the resumes, they have their references. And obviously, those are the best people that know them. And so, it’s kind of like a grain of salt with people. I put out referrals, too. And I put my best clients out there. I just really genuinely want to know who they are and develop some sort of bond. I don’t do drama. I don’t want any of that in my company. I want people who are like-minded and have the same attitude that I do.


And just make these people happy. Make these clients happy. And we will never need again. We won’t want for anything with happy clients. Ryan: Excellent. So you had mentioned, Todd that you’ve had an adventurous life, had some things that you’ve experienced. Can you share a success quote that you live by? And really try to break it down and how you may apply that to your business and your life. Todd: This sounds funny. When I first heard it, it didn’t make sense to me. But it’s, “Nothing fails like success.” Ryan: Makes a lot of sense to me. Kyle: I’m not getting this so please explain. Todd: When my pipeline is filled, I relax. And when things are going great, I relax. That’s what I’ve learned in the last couple of years. It’s --- No, you’ve got to continue to sharpen things. You’ve got to break things down, repair systems. Find things that can get better, always – even when things are good. Because Joe Schmuck’s out there trying to put me out of business. He is trying to be better than me. And so, even how good things are going, just don’t buy into it. Don’t buy into yourself. Ryan: That’s huge! I actually have a quote right in front of me from Dan Kennedy that I look at every morning. And it’s very similar. If I can just share that, it’s, “Absence of dynamic business growth makes customer question their own judgment about patronizing that business and encourages their looking around at other options.” So when you are not growing, if you are stagnant. It’s exactly what you brought out, you are not able to continue your service better, marketing better. You are going to start losing your market share. I look at that quote every morning. Kyle: Especially in our industry, right? We can be high on the hog, feeling great and in the next month, it’s just going down. It can be so cyclical. It can go so high and so low. Always having that mindset of what’s next, always staying hungry. It’s kind of like what I’m gathering from that too.


Ryan: That’s great! Kyle: Todd, share a story of a time in your journey if you could where you encountered failure. Take us to that time in your life and tell us that story and maybe share some lessons you learned from it. Todd: I have to go back to cancer. Last year, about this time, I spent two to three months dying. I had something wrong with me. We knew I had cancer. The doctors just couldn’t tell me what kind it was. And we struggled. I was out of the business for several months. Things kind of fell apart. And by the good grace of God, they were finally able to diagnose me, get me into the chemo I needed. Currently, I have a clean bill of health. I don’t say this with pride. I say this with humility. I have a set of goggles on. I see things a little bit different now. Life is truly short. And it can be very short. I’ve always wanted the business to be something that I can be proud of. And over the last year, I have worked my tail off to say, “You know what, no! I’m not going to settle for what is. I know where it can be. I know what I can do with this. I don’t have time. I can’t waste any of it and wait until all the stars have aligned to become what I think it needs to become. Bullcrap! I am doing it now. I don’t care. It’s a leap of faith. I know what I can do. It’s time to do it.” Ryan: No time like the present. Kyle: Did the cancer come out of the left field? Todd: I had some night sweats. This sounds weird. I just started sweating at night and I thought it was some sort of infection and then, a couple of weeks later, I was in the Doctor’s office. He drew some blood. “You’ve got something wrong, Bud!” It was very “WHOA!” I’m 35 years old. I’m in the prime of my life right now. This isn’t right. This shouldn’t be happening. But now, it’s been a great experience. In humility, I do see things a little bit differently. I don’t care about the financials. I don’t care about my personal bank account. I know that all will be taken cared of if


my employees are happy and my clients are happy, then my finances will just be fine. Ryan: Money will come. Todd: Money will come. Ryan: It really will. Thanks for sharing that. We really appreciate that. Talk to us a little bit about, this might be tied into the same experience you had here – the big breakthrough, or AHA! moment. And how that may have changed your remodeling business? Todd: Obviously, this is a family business. And my Dad ran it. And it’s kind of hard. There are so many great things about a family business. But, there are also some things that you will struggle with. Especially, when you are dealing with a dad who’s done this for so long and has got his way of doing his things. And in my mind, that wasn’t how I wanted to move forward with the company. What happened was, a month or two ago, he took a trip to France. And for some reason, the trip ended up taking 2, almost 2 and a half weeks. And in that 2 and a half weeks, I had full control of the company. It sounds weird but I was able to go out, get exactly what I needed as far as the staff in the office. I was able to hire and implement every system I wanted to do. And I was able to do it without any resistance. And when he came home, I swear he was happy because everything was better. But I don’t think he recognized the company. And from then on, everything has just flowed right into place. It’s been a wonderful experience. So that would probably be my AHA! moment – getting full control of the company and being able to implement the ideas that my wife and I had – the systems and the Progress Walkthrough Document. That’s something we’ve created over the last couple of months to help improve our clients satisfaction. Ryan: It’s interesting you touched on control. And I’ve done a lot of business deals and I still am involved in real estate and I won’t touch a business or a deal unless I have full control. Because I have been in situations where I didn’t. It didn’t turn out all that great. So, it’s interesting with a family business, it’s not always possible but at some point you


kind of have to get into a point where it’s “Look, it’s either my way or that or I can’t do it” Kyle: You kind of have to get to a point where you send Dad to France. Ryan: Right! Exactly. Todd: Yeah. Just yesterday, I was talking to him about it. “Dad, I need you. I just need you to let go. Let me have this time. Let me shine. Watch what I can do, Dad. You will be so proud of what I can do. You have done absolutely the best that you did. And someday, my son will have the chance, hopefully to take it over and do what he can do. And I will need to step back and let that pride go.” Ryan: And you need new ideas. You need new blood in every business, whether that comes from family members or somewhere else external. It’s vital. Todd: Absolutely. Kyle: Excellent. Ryan: Talk to us about one thing in your business that’s really exciting you right now. Todd: It’s got to be the speed of trust. In my industry, if you can build a reputation of trust, of being fair, of providing a quality product, a process that’s reasonable and fast and having the people behind you to do it. The speed of trust is amazing. I can walk in to an estimate. I can take my laptop, print up the estimate right there, walk out with a check and put them into the schedule. If you’ve got that and your online reviews back that, it’s amazing how fast business moves nowadays. People don’t want to wait 2 weeks for an estimate. We are a society of information. We can get almost anything we want right now. I can click on Amazon and buy whatever I need and have it here tomorrow or the next day. Kyle: Be a drone. Todd: Yes, exactly.


But in my industry, we’ve got to move forward to and give people what they want, when they want it and at that speed. And it’s just amazing how fast businesses move now. Kyle: But we have never done it that way Todd. How can we change? Todd: I’m sorry, this is new blood. This is the new way of thinking. And so, I feel bad for some people. Because, there’s a lot of good guys who do what I do for a living and they’ve neglected the SEO aspect of it. They’ve neglected any sort of online branding, reputation – all that. They’ve just gone by with a sign on a van. That’s one way obviously of doing it. But I didn’t want it that way. Ryan: Something you brought up Todd that I think is important to kind of go down a little bit, discuss further is the fact that you are able to get it. You have a process but you are really selling a product. You are not selling a general remodeling service. You can correct me if I’m wrong here but you are offering basements, kitchens and baths. It seems to me like, and I preach this, I don’t know if I’m always right either about this, but being able to narrow down your services to three things. And those three things, you can build a great message around. You can build a great guarantee around. And you have a great guarantee that you might want to touch on as well. You are able to price things out very, very quickly because you just did 10 of the same thing before that. And I just find that business works a lot smoother and better – not that it’s easy because none of it is. But just talking about finding that niche, which seems like you’ve identified that pretty successfully. Todd: To shoot straight with you, this whole kitchen and bath thing has been good. But it’s secondary to the basements. Our entire process, company and systems make the basement projects flow. And every one of my guys has many years of experience doing the same thing. A basement typically is a basement in Utah. You don’t get yourself into too hairy of a situation with the older homes. Most of the homes we work here are 5 to 10 years old.


And I can walk into a basement and know, give a price immediately on how much this is going to cost. I am shooting straight with you. I am not sure on the kitchen and bath. I really just want to do maybe one more thing and knock that off and just be, maybe the Utah Basement Company. And my wife and I have just talked about that. We are still contemplating that. Kyle: There’s more romantic pillow talk for that. Todd: How sad is that! Kyle: One thing you are getting at, you are talking about great people in the industry. It made me think of an unfair truth in business and it goes like this, there are a lot of people in our industry that do great work, work hard but are flat broke. And there are others and this is the unfair truth about business – there are others who do not do great work, work hard, have effective marketing and sales and get paid. And a lot of times, we kind of skip over that marketing and sales section of that. A lot of times, “Hey! I work hard. I do great work.” It’s not enough anymore. It’s a matter of making sure we have key points of differences. Ryan have mentioned very quickly. But I want you to talk a little bit. You have a unique guarantee that you put out there. How does that kind of play into your success, or how often does that come up during sales conversations and what is it? Todd: What it is – 102503. I actually came up with this via Ryan’s book – you need a USP, you need a unique selling. I have a 10 year warranty that I offer. I basically, played on every fear Joe Client has out there about the contractor, which is I will give you a service warranty on everything I do for 10 years. If I don’t finish on time, I‘ll pay you $25 a day and when we get into settling, I will promise you that I will not charge you a penny more beyond our contract price short of you changing something like you added crown molding or wainscoting or any other optional upgrade.


And then, the 3, I feel very confident that you will refer at least 3 people our way. I’ve been able to do that. And you’ve also touched on the kind of old school way of doing a business. I think, in my industry, there are 2 different mindsets. There is the business mentality which is I want to build a business and it just happens to be contracting remodeling business. And there is the other business mindset which is, “You know what, I just want to be a builder. I just want to put on my tool belt. I want to go in and I want to frame. I enjoy doing that.” There is nothing wrong with either of those. My brother is like that. He is my framer. He loves going to a basement, framing for me, putting on his iPhone and just listening to music all day. Going home and not dealing with anything else. “Give me my pay check and I’m on my way.” And so, I’ve enjoyed the business aspect of it, the marketing and trying to build it. I enjoy the sales, too. I think I am the only one in my industry here in the valley that spends my whole day selling my product. I’ve found out that it’s what I’m best at. And I’ve hired out what I am not good at. I’ve hired the Project Managers and I’m good at it. But I’m not great. It’s not what I really enjoy doing. Kyle: There’s another spinoff that I have on your guarantee. When I asked you what your guarantee was, did you look at a piece of paper? Todd: No, it’s on my desk. Kyle: It’s locked and loaded, right? Because you’ve said it so many times. I heard this analogy the other day and I thought it’s going to be interesting for you guys and the listeners to hear it. There’s one reason that we should be envious of politicians. You guys know what is it? Todd: No! Kyle: Politicians know how to stay on message, right? If it is election season, you wake them up in the middle of the night, they are going to be able to share their talking points in their sleep.


I think, I’m guilty of this, too. I have a great story of how I started my business. And frankly, after 6 or 7 years, I am sick of sharing it. But when I get in front of some remodelers just like I was this week, a lot of those people never heard of that story of why I started my business, what I’m all about. So I think, as sales people, if I asked you Todd, you are probably so sick of sharing that guarantee but you do it every time because you know it’s effective. You know it’s on message and you know it’s going to differentiate yourself. So that’s why we need to be envious of politicians. Ryan: There are so many remodeling companies that are scared to really stand behind their products and services in a powerful way. It’s just amazing to me. But I understand why. And a lot of times, it’s because the business isn’t focused. They are doing a lot of different things. They don’t really know from job to job if they could produce a level of quality that’s consistent enough to guarantee it beyond a year. You know what I mean. So being able to identify the thing you do very well, you should be able to pull that out and build a guarantee beyond a year, in a powerful way. And you will come back and you’ll do this. And I f you don’t finish the job, what happens if you don’t finish it on time? Is there a monetary compensation? Those are things when you show up Todd you sound like a different animal when you are in front of a client. Todd: I certainly hope so. I also certainly feel like we are. I feel like my guys are. I’m very clear on the warranty. It’s kind of scary for a contractor to throw that out because you are busy as is. You don’t have time to go back to other jobs and handle issues like that. So, I’m very clear. Your faucet was made by Kohler. They have a product warranty if it malfunctions. Or your toilet or anything that we put in – a product warranty comes with it. It is associated with the product. But I guarantee you, my plumber plumbed it right. And if he didn’t, I will come back and fix it. And so, it’s really a warranty of nothing. I know our guy does it right on the first time so I am not going to come back.


Kyle: So let’s get into the lightning round. I think we already have been flowing into some lightning round questions but this is what we call the lightning round section. Are you ready? Todd: Go ahead! Kyle: All right. Ryan, start us off. Ryan: What’s the best business advice that you’ve ever received? Todd: Great question! I’d say, if you think the problem is out there, that very thought is the problem. When things are going good, I look through a window at everyone who is making it well for me. But when it’s bad, I’ve got to look in the mirror and it usually goes back to me. Kyle: Repeat that one again, Todd. Todd: When things are going good, I look through a window at everyone who is making it go well. When it’s going bad, it’s always a mirror and it’s usually my fault. Kyle: What book would you recommend for Remodelers on the Rise listeners? Todd: Okay. Obviously Ryan, your book opened my eyes to a lot of cool things. The USP was awesome! Ryan: Oh no self-promotion! Todd: No, Ryan. You also know in my emails I have a little tagline under there. It is either less hassle, more hustle. Or, I have a little tagline in all my emails now that promotes my business (that USP). But, your book has been good. The Speed of Trust by Covey has been amazing. Just pushing trust. It’s an amazing aspect of our business that’s neglected oftentimes by individuals who do what we do. Ryan: Kyle, you talk about trust a lot and know, like and trust. Anything you want to expand there? Kyle: No. let’s just talk about how wonderful you are and your book transforming Todd’s life.


Ryan: All right, keep rubbing it in. Anyways, moving on. You have some resource or some kind that you don’t mind sharing to our listeners? Todd: I’ve got that document – the Progress Walkthrough Document. This has simplified our lives and our clients’ lives. It’s so amazing that my wife was able to put this together. I couldn’t do this. This is probably the resource. Is that what you are talking about? Ryan: Yup! Todd: I don’t know how you guys are going to put this into the website but I’m happy to share it either way. Going through it, just the pre-walk through post training. It’s basically a happy checklist. As a job flows through mainly on a basement project, I want the client to know that we are concerned of their happiness with the quality of the product we are providing. This is basically a document that backs that up. When everything is said and done, there’s nothing that we need to fix or take care of, then great! Let’s sign it together. Kyle: There you go. So for all of the listeners listening to this one. Todd, sent this over. Here’s the document that he’s pretty proud of and nervous to share. So if you are a Utah local, a Layton, Utah remodeler, you are not allowed to use this. Ryan: Stay away! Kyle: Everybody else across the country, feel free to use it. How’s that? Is that good, Todd? Todd: I feel warm and fuzzy right now. Ryan: I ma going to lock it down. Any IP address that comes from Utah, they won’t be able to get to it. The resource will be available www.RemodelersontheRise.com/show9. What I might do there Todd, because you were a little bit nervous about sharing it is we’ll open up the comment section and anybody who goes to that page and downloads the resource, give Todd some feedback, a shoutout, a testimonial, something to kind of thank him for doing it.

http://www.remodelersontherise.com/show9


It is a big deal and any of our guests who have left something, it’s nice to hear back from people if it’s useful. Kyle: So here’s the final question. Todd, it’s a little bit of a deucey. Imagine you wake up tomorrow morning and you are in the same exact business but you knew no one, had no sale tomorrow morning and only $500 of startup money. And your life depended on you selling something in the next 7 days. You still have all the experience and knowledge that you currently have. Your food and shelter are taken cared of. But all you have is a laptop and $500. What would you do in the next 7 days to survive and generate new business? Todd: Do I have a license? Do I have my B100 right now? Kyle: Yes. Todd: Done! I know exactly what I’m doing. I’m going to create something on my laptop. Something, whatever – like a flyer. Put all my USPs in there, of what I can do on their projects. I am going to hit for 4 hours over the next 5 days. 4 hours a day, I am going to go canvass some newer neighborhoods: upper middle class that I know their basements are unfinished and I’m going to put them on the door and generate probably 10 to 15 phone calls off that. And I’m going to close probably 2 of those deals. And fill my pipeline in the next week or two. Ryan: Fairly simple but highly effective. That’s ideal. Kyle: There you go! Ryan: Finally, Todd is there anything else you wanted to share today? And just let people know where they may get hold of you or find you. Todd: Sure. My website is www.utahbkb.com. If you want to, you can call me if you want to talk about anything we’ve talked about, give me some feedback, too. I’m open to trying to be better as well. So, my cell is (801) 510 0303. Probably, the greatest advice that I was ever given was, do what you enjoy and hire out the rest.

http://www.utahbkb.com/


I am really good at Quickbooks but I don’t enjoy that. I’m good at bookkeeping but I’m so much better at other things. So I’ve learned that it’s better to hire out what you’re not the best at. Ryan: Right on! Todd: Just hire out. Have some faith in yourself and hire out what you are not good at. Kyle: You know what I enjoyed Todd? Todd: What? Kyle: I enjoyed this interview. Todd: Thanks, Kyle. Kyle: How about that? I mean, I’d say that to everybody. But no, I didn’t. No, I really didn’t. it as great. I haven’t said that before, have I, Ryan? Ryan: No! You haven’t. We were talking about it off air. That for me personally, this re-energizes me. Having these conversations definitely helps me. You brought up a lot of great points today, Todd. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing that. Kyle: Yeah! Thank you very much. So just a friendly reminder to all our listeners. Please check out www.RemodelersontheRise.com. If you could take a couple of minutes to review and rate our show on iTunes, that would be very much appreciated. And also if head over to www.RemodelersontheRise.com, we have a free resource that Ryan and I put together. It is called “The 15 Tools Every Remodeler Needs”. So feel free to download that. So we appreciate you all tuning in. Thank you very much again, Todd. Todd: Thank you for having me. Ryan: Thank you, Todd. Kyle: We’ll talk to you all soon. Thank you!

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Education

Show 9 with Todd Cella of Utah Basement, Kitchen and Bath