Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
• Milagro was proposed in 1990– Before EGRET and the Compton
Observatory– Before BATSE– Whipple – 10m
• Only one confirmed source and no spectrum• Lot’s of spurious observations
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Milagro History• 1990 Proposal Submitted to NSF for a $2.7M Detector• 1994 Funding begins toward a $2.7M Project (80%NSF
20%DoE)• 1995 Site Preparation - New liner & cover - PUB -
Counting House - PMT structure installed• 1995 -1996 Milagrisimo run - 38 tubes on pond bottom• 1996-1997 Milagrito installed - Data taking begins Feb
1997• 1997 Lightning protection system• 1998 Milagro tubes installed, modifications to
electronics, cover, water system completed (based on Milagrito experience)
• Winter 1999 Begin data taking with Pond only (NSF contribution $2.3M)
• Outrigger funding began in FY02 – finished FY04
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Why we need Outriggers (Slide Circa 10/98)
• What are outriggers?– An array of water tanks outside the pond– We have built & operated a prototype– Outriggers were part of the original Milagro proposal
• Outriggers are essential for locating core position– Need counters outside the pond to tell if cores are inside or
outside• Energy Determination needs core position
– Need core to determine shower size and lateral distribution -This is vital for AGNs and GRBs
• Angular Resolution– Curvature correction needs core position
• Proton/Gamma Discrimination– Proton showers trigger further from the pond– Gammas trigger more often on the pond
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Angular Resolution
Pre-outriggerAng res = 0.70°
Post-outriggerAng res = 0.41°
From Proposal
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Milagro Sensitivity (from proposal)
Current Performance on the Crab (median E~12TeV)
~12σ/yr with γ/h separation and weighting
~4σ/yr without γ/h separation and weighting
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Construction Funding Profile
$0
$500
$1,000
$1,500
$2,000
$2,500
$3,000
1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
FY
Fund
s in
Tho
usan
ds
NSFDoE
Initial Pond Construction
Outriggers
Total Cost of Construction $2.8M (NSF) $0.6M DoE = $3.4M
Plus significant lab contributions (Pond, Trailers, Lightning Protection (UCDRD))
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Had Milagro Been Fully Funded in 1991
• Construction would have been finished in 1995 instead of 2003
• We would have had this data set in 1999– We would have had full overlap with CGRO
• We would have been driving the field– Way ahead of HESS, MAGIC and VERITAS– At a cost of only $3M
• HAWC can do the same, if funded in a timely fashion
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Problems with the Previous HAWC Review• Three mail-in reviews
– All had misunderstandings about Milagro, the HAWC proposal and even GLAST.
• Milagro saw no new sources…• Large investment in Milagro did not pay off• Milagro required additional funding to get outriggers in order to
reach design sensitivity• HAWC has a larger pond and many more PMTs than Milagro• GLAST will be able to directly measure the prompt emission
from the brightest bursts in the 30 MeV -300 GeV range… short time-scale variability of AGN is a very important science question - However, this is something that will be addressed by GLAST (up to energies of ~ 300 GeV)
• Engineering runs will not start until the third quarter of 2011• However, in order to achieve reasonable background rejection,
there will be some cost to angular resolution of the detector (compared to Milagro).
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
– Two reviews showed significant bias• I have never been a great fan of the use of high altitude water
Cerenkov air shower arrays… [Zenith angle dependence] is fundamental problem with the technique. It is the reason Milagro should never have been built.
– MGRO 1908+06 never gets higher than 30o
• Since IceCube is another one of those experiments that NSF will spend lots of money on without significant science return, there won't be much that the two can do together. zero x epsilon = zero.
– IceCube is already the world’s largest neutrino detector & has produced dozens of papers even while being finished. It also is using Milagro data to look at potential ν targets.
• IACTs will be covering a lot of the parameter space in complement to GLAST. Given the limited resources of funding agencies, I would think it makes more sense to support the healthy ongoing projects at this time and add resources to them to maximize the scientific output.
– Wide field is critical and IACTs are working hard to do it.
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
– Those PA panel members with a good understanding of the technique likely recused themselves and were not available to pass judgment on the proposal.
– Milagro/HAWC are unique as no one else does water-Cherenkov. Misunderstandings are natural.
– We had no opportunity to explain or rebut any of these misunderstandings
• We need a dedicated committee to look at HAWC
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Questions for Discussion1. What will be the procedure for a panel review?
a) Timing of the reviewb) What will be the scope?
2. How do we assure that we can be fairly reviewed by both the panel and mail-in reviews?a) What about conflicts of interest?b) What about European experts?
3. How do we deal with the uncertainty in the Mexican proposal (DoE)?
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Questions for Discussion (continued)
4. What type of MOU will we need?5. What should we do about an MRI proposal?
a) What are the rules about asking for the support in both a regular proposal and an MRI?
b) Who should be involved in the MRI (one institution or many)?
c) What will the timing be of the review wrt the MRI?
6. How many pages can our proposal be?a) What may included as an appendixb) Mou’s, Mexican studies, Engineering studies, etc
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
University Grant Program Report(approved by HEPAP)
• The SAGs should regularize their role in reviewing projects– Each SAG should actively monitor and prioritize the experiments
and R&D in its area. It should evaluate both physics goals and technical design.
– The SAGs should report to P5, timing their reports so that they are available to P5 when needed.
– The SAGs should review all experiments with expected construction costs above $5M, along with smaller ones seeking review. This includes both experiments that are affiliated with a U.S. laboratory and those that are not. Additional SAGs should be created as needed to cover all areas (taking care to avoid proliferation).
– HEPAP should establish mechanisms for prioritizing experiments whose cost is above $5M but below the P5 threshold. The prioritization process should take advantage of input from the SAGs
and should reflect the breadth of the field.
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
UGPS (cont)
QuickTime™ and aTIFF (LZW) decompressor
are needed to see this picture.
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
HAWC US Collaborators• Los Alamos
– B. Dingus, P. Huentemeyer, G. Sinnis, G. Walker (Milagro, HIRES) • University of Maryland
– Aous Abdo, D. Berley, R. Ellsworth, J. Goodman, A. Smith, Vlasios Vasileiou (Milagro, IceCube)
• U.C. Irvine– G. Yodh (Milagro)
• Michigan State University– J. Linnemann (Milagro, D0)
• Penn State University– T. DeYoung (Milagro, IceCube)
• University of Utah– D. Kieda, M. Mustafa (VERITAS, Auger)
• U. New Hampshire– J. Ryan (Milagro, Solar Physics)
• University of New Mexico– J. Mathews (Auger)
• U.C. Santa Cruz– M. Schneider (Milagro)
• NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center– J. McEnery (GLAST)
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
Mexican Collaborators
Institution Dependent on Location Areas Relation to HAWC
Instituto Nacional de Astrof’sica, īptic a y Electr—nica (INAOE)
CONACYT Tonantzintla, Puebla
Astrophysics, optics, electronics , computing science
LMT project, RT5, site development + management
Instituto de Astronom’a
UNAM Mexico DF Astronomy and astrophysics
RT5, OAN
Facultad de Ciencias F’sico Matem‡ticas
BUAP Puebla High energy particle physics
Cosmic ray array
Instituto de F’sica UNAM Mˇxico DF High energy physics
Particle detectors
Instituto de Ciencias Nucleares
UNAM Mˇxico DF Nuclear and particle physics
Auger, theory
Instituto de Geof’sica UNAM Mˇxico DF Solar physics TNS, RT5 Instituto de F’sica Universidad de
Guanajuato Le—n, Guanajuato
High energy physics, neutrinos
CINVESTAV IPN Mˇxico DF High energy physics
Auger
Instituto de F’sica Universidad Michoacana de San Nicol‡s de Hidalgo
Morelia, Michoac‡n
High energy physics and instrumentation
Auger
Dipartimento di Fisica Generale
Universit‡ di Torino
Torino, Italia High energy cosmic rays
Chacaltaya
Centro de Geociencias UNAM Querˇtaro Geophysics Geology, hydrology
Departamento de F’sica
UAM Iztapalapa DF
Hydrogeology Hydrogeology
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
MX HAWC collaborators
Individual Institution Research areas /
other projects Contribution to
HAWC Dedication
Alberto Carrami–ana INAOE High energy astrophysics / LMT / head of astrophysics
Group organization, science
Main project, core group, high
Eduardo Mendoza INAOE Solar physics / RT5
Site studies, solar research
High involvement, combined with RT5, high
Janina Nava INAOE Environment / LMT
Environmental oversight
Consultant, helper, medium
Lil’ V‡zquez INAOE, UAEM
Geoscientist Hired for proposal
Out of group
Guillermo Tenorio Tagle
INAOE ISM expert Astrophysical interpretation
Science discussion, low
Luis Carrasco INAOE ISM expert and extragalactic
Astrophysical interpretation
Science discussion, low
Sergey Silich INAOE ISM expert Astrophysical interpretation
Science discussion, low
Eduardo de la Fuente INAOE General astrophysics
Dedicated 1 year postdoc
Up to full time for one year, high
Manuel Rodr’guez INAOE Blazars Student Main project, high Magdalena Gonz‡lez IAUNAM Gamma-ray
astronomy MILAGRO member
Main project, core group, high
Dany Page IAUNAM Neutron star models
Supporter Theoretical interpretation (Compact objects), low
William Lee IAUNAM Gamma ray bursts
Supporter Theoretical interpretation (GRB), low to medium
Deborah Dultzin IAUNAM AGN expert Blazar research, multiwavelength work during EGRET
Multiwavelength observations, theoretical discussion oversight (blazars), low to medium
Miriam Carrillo IAUNAM GRBs Student Ph Thesis, high Erika Ben’tez IAUNAM AGNs, blazars Blazar research,
multiwavelength work during EGRET
Multiwavelength observations, theoretical discussion oversight (blazars), low to medium
Vladimir ēv ila IAUNAM Cosmology Dark matter search
Theoretical discussion, low to medium
Sergio Mendoza IAUNAM Relativistic jets Blazars and GRBs
Theoretical interpretation, low
Marco Martos IAUNAM ISM expert Astrophysical interpretation
Science discussion, low
Individual Institution Research areas / other projects
Contribution to HAWC Dedication
Hector Hern‡ndez Toledo
IAUNAM AGN Multiwavelength work
Optical observations (blazars and general), outreach, medium
Octavio Valenzuela IAUNAM Cosmology Dark matter search Theoretical discussion, medium
Gustavo Medina Tanco
ICN-UNAM Highest energy cosmic rays
Auger, CR research
Interpretation, discussion, core group, high
Lukas Nellen ICN-UNAM High energy astrophysics
Auger Theory, computing resources, high
Juan Carlos DÕOlivo ICN-UNAM High energy physics
Auger General discussion, low
Rubˇn Alfaro IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumentation
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, core group, high
Arturo Menchaca IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumention / IFUNAM director
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, medium
Ernesto Belmont IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumentation
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, low
Andrˇs Sandov al IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumentation
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, Citlaltepetl tomography, medium to high
Arnulfo Mart’nez IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumentation
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, ?
Varlen Grabski IFUNAM High energy physics and instrumentation
CR detectors (Teotihuac‡n experiment)
Instrumentation, ?
Humberto Salazar BUAP High energy physics, astrophsyics
Cosmic ray array Instrumentation, core group, high
Oscar Mart’nez BUAP High energy physics, astrophysics
Cosmic ray array Instrumentation, core group, high
Arturo Fern‡ndez BUAP High energy physics
ALICE General discussion, low
Cˇsar ē lvarez BUAP High energy physics, astrophysics
Cosmic ray array Main project, high
Lorenzo D’az BUAP High energy physics
Cosmic ray array General discussion, low
Alfonso Rosado BUAP High energy physics
Cosmic ray array Student?
Cupatitzio Ramirez BUAP High energy physics
Head of department
Institutional support, low
Jordan GoodmanNSF July 2007
Milagro
MX HAWC collaborators II
Individual Institution Research areas / other projects
Contribution to HAWC Dedication
Josˇ Valdˇs Galicia Geof’sica UNAM
Solar physics, cosmic rays, / Solar neutron telescope (TNS)
Geof’sica Director General discussion, solar research, institutional support, Medium
Alejandro Lara Geof’sica UNAM
Solar physics / RT5
Instrumentation Solar research, medium
Rogelio Caballero Geof’sica UNAM
Solar physics, cosmic rays (TNS?)
Instrumentation Solar research, medium to high
Arnulfo Zepeda CINVESTAV High energy particle physics
Auger General support, medium to high
Gerardo Herrera CINVESTAV
High energy physics
Former department director
Low?
David Delepine IF-UGTO High energy physics
Neutrinos Medium
Gerardo Moreno IF-UGTO High energy physics
? Low
Mauro Napsuciale IF-UGTO High energy physics
? Low
Luis Ure–a IF-UGTO High energy physics
? Low
Marco Reyes IF-UGTO High energy physics
? Medium
Victor Migˇnes IF-UGTO Astronomy ? Low Luis Villase–or UMSNH High energy
physics Auger Instrumentation,
high Oscar Saavedra Torino High energy
cosmic rays Chacaltaya Low
Alejandro Carrillo Geociencias UNAM
Geology, hydrology
Geological and water research at Citlaltepetl
Consultant
Gerardo Carrasco Geociencias UNAM
Geology Geological research at Citlaltepetl, experience with dam structures?
Consultant
Carlos Vargas UAM Iztapalapa
Hydrogeology Hydrogeology Consultant