· Washington, D.C. 20001 Dear Judge Sirica: 1 1 tr~nr J_;~~L I hereby petition the Court to unseal the tape recording of approximately five-and-a-half hours duration, and the transcript

,/ .:

r· . ••. /'\. .. ··.·. · • · V·.l

NW 7067

···~:·' ·.· ,·· _, .. ' i"-,'·. .

' . . - ···.·

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- ~-'·.

/

..

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NW 7067 Do

Jl n m u Jlf. c!Il zxfu~u Ol!erk

~ ~tiro ~icrlrs ~i:stri.d Olour± JJf nr ±IF ~istrid of @olumhht

®Hire of l~t Ollerh

3dt nnb Olomllilulion J\ornur, ;N-~-

~asqiugtnn;·,~~- err. 20001 .

MEMJRANDUM FDR THE RECORD

Re: Transmittal of Watergate-Related Material to National Archives and Records Service

On August· 1, 1979, we transmitted to National Archives and Records Service (NARS) rrost of our Watergate-related civil, criminal and miscellaneous case files and related docket sheets for closed cases. At that tirre we advised Archives that we would subsequently transmit additional material ·relating to then open cases arid material that was then under seal.

On June 30, 1980 and August 25, 1980, we transmitted additional vJatergate-related material to NARS.

We are now transmitting the follc:Ming material:

1. CA 74:...1518 - 'IWo boxes containing pleadings, transcripts, dep:>sitions, etc. 1 This case was on appeal when we made our original shipment of· material to NARS ·on August 1, 1979.

2. CR 7 4-155 - , 'IWo · boxes containing trial exhibits of government arrl defendai1t. This material was also in the Court of Appeals when we made · our original shiprrent.

3. CR 1827~72 - The original of Judge Bryant's 10/3/80 Order partially lifting the seal of l/17/73 re the transcript of the Baldwin interview. A copy of the transcript of the ' Baldwin interview with certain passages deleted on pages 48, 49, 59, 61, 62, 71 and 72 pursuant to Judge Bryant's 10/3/80 Order.

On behalf of NARS I hereby receipt for the above described materi CR 74-155 and CA 74-1518.

Steven Tilley, NARS__}

- .• ·: .,

· . . .. . · . . · .• .• · • • • • • . , i ,

, .

. . . •' , ~--·

•

CR 1827-72,

IJ

)

\

v UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Fl LED ocr 3 .. 198J

JAMES F. DAVEY, Clerk

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

Plaintiff

v. Criminal Case No. 1827-72

GEORGE GORDON LIDDY, et al.,

Defendants

ORDER

UPON CONSIDERATION by the Court of the request by Robert Fink

to have the Court unseal its copy of the 1972 interview of

Alfred C. Baldwin III by Los Angeles Times reporters Jack Nelson

and Ronald Ostrow, which was sealed on January 17, 1973, and this

Court having entered an Order to Show Cause on August 22, 1980, as

to why the transcript of this interview, subject to certain

deletions, should not be unsealed and made available to the public,

AND IT APPEARING to the Court that no objection has been

filed within·the time provided in the Order to Show Cause,

AND IT FURTHER APPEARING that there is no longer any reason

for most of the transcript of the Baldwin interview to remain

sealed, it is by the Court this 3~ day of t!Jc~h~, 1980,

ORDERED that the seal be lifted on the.transcript of the

Baldwin interview and that the Clerk of Court make copies of the

interview available to the public subject to the deletion of

certain passages on pages 48, 49, 59, 61, 62, 71 and 7~ (alluding

to the contents of illegally intercepted conversations).

. ' . . .

NW 7067 boctd:: 5916211f P.age 4

I

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA


Plaintiff

v.

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

Criminal Case No. 1827-72


Defendants FILED

AUG 2 2 t980

ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE JAMES F. DAVEY, Clerk


to have the Court unseal its copy of the 1972 interview of Alfred c.

Baldwin III by Los Angeles Times reporters Jack Nelson and Ronald

Ostrow, which was sealed on January 17, 1973,

AND IT APPEARING to the Court that there is no longer any

reason for the transcript of the Baldwin interview to remain sealed

with the exception of deleting certain passages on pages 48, 49, 59,

61, 62, 71 and 7,_, (alluding to the contents of illegally intercepted

this z_ I ~day of A ...... c, u.s} conversations), it is by the Court

I 1980,

ORDERED that all persons having an interest in this matter

shmv cause on or before the "2 2- ... .r~ay of _.Ji?,,_,Jb...--u-.£.£;_.v-- , 198 0 as I

to why the transcript of this interview, subject to above deletions,

should not be unsealed and made available to the public pursuant to

Mr. Fink's request,

AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the Clerk of Court serve a

copy of this order.on each defendant's last counsel of record and

the United States Attorney.

~£ee_~---· n 4~u~r CHIEF JUDGE, U.S. DISTRJ~T COURT

NW 7067 Docld:59162111 Page 5

-. . , ..

ROBERT FINK

\7 ..!7 HAR V ARD STREET. N . W .

W"-SHING TON. D .C. 20009

12021 40 2· 3240

Hon. John J. Sirica Senior Judge

May 15, 1980

u.s. District Court for the District · of Columbia

OFFICE o;:

1Constitution Avenue & John t1i3r_?hall Place l\11\1 Washington, D.C. 20001

Dear Judge Sirica:

1 1 tr~nr J_;~~L

I hereby petition the Court to unseal the tape recording of approximately five-and-a-half h ours duration, and the transcript thereof, of the 1972 interview of Alfred C. Baldwin conducted b y Jack Ne lson and Ronald Ostrow of the Los An geles Ti,mes.

This iequest, re CA 72-1827, is submitted pursuant to a book presently being researched about 11 the ~vatergate Affair, 11 to be published by Random House.

l"!r'lf"!l V .: .I\..Ji'\

I will be grateful if the requested documents could be made available for my inspection at a location of the Court's choosing as soon as possible.

. ·· ..

\ _ I)

~

Sinc erely,

NW 7067 DoCid:59162111 Page 6


William B. Bryant

Judge

E.Herbert

Deputy Clerk

Case Deft.

No. Status

__ c_r_1_· m_1_· n_a_l __ BLOTTER

Page ____ of ----pages

Title

October 3,1980 Date

n/r Court Reporter

r•• ·••-a .Jo '' aoo ttaos 2 s••

Entry

1827-7 ~ George G.Liddy, et al. ORDER directing that the seal be lif-

ted on the transcript of the Baldwin

interview and that the Clerk of Cour

' make copies of the interview availabl

to the public subject to certain

deletions.{N)n/r

NW 7067 Docid:59162111 Page 7

t

e

/

t/ FILED


ocr 3 .. 19-eo JAMES F. DAVEY, Clerk


Plaintiff

v.


Defendants

) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) )

ORDER

Criminal Case No. 1827-72


to have the Court unseal its copy of the 1972 interview of

Alfred C. Baldwin III by Los Angeles Times reporters Jack Nelson

and Ronald Ostrow, which was sealed on January 17, 1973, and this

Court having entered an Order to Show Cause on August 22, 1980, as

to why the transcript of this interview, subject to certain

deletions, should not be unsealed and made available to the .public,

AND IT APPEARING to the Court that no objection has been ·· . .............

filed within the time provided in the Order to Show Cause,

AND IT FURTHER APPEARING that there is no longer any reason

for most of the transcript of the Baldwin interview to remain

sealed, it is by the Court this

ORDERED that the seal be lifted on the transcript of the

Baldwin interview and that the Clerk of Court make copies of the

interview available to the public subject to the deletion of

certain pa~sag~s on pages 48, 49, 59, ~1, 62, 71 and 71 (alluding

to the contents of illegally intercepted conversations).

'-cHIEF JUDGE, U. S. DI.STRICT COURT ""

NW 7067 Docld:59162111 Page 8

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II FOIA(b) (3) - 18 USC 2510-2520, Title III Wire Tap Court Sealed

48

Q

A ---~the next day I know we were back and he was

tuning ----- he told me where he was. He pointed to the office

I think the term was we got the units in there. That was like

saying, revealing his whole world. He was a very close-mouthed

person. He would say very little. He didn't come out and tell

you in advance what you were doing. I know Liddy and Hunt are

there on Friday because you see what happens, I am pretty sure

Friday night Liddy is the guy gets in the car. Remember, I don'

know these men, so what I am saying is that evening, Friday

evening, this guy Liddy gets in the car. Now, so Friday after-

noon I am sure, the first conversation he gets in on, he is on

the large receiving unit.

Q That is McCord?

A This is McCord. He picks up the conversation ------h

is listening to a conversation and fuis time he doesn't even kno

who he is listening to------because I had to establish first we

got his name as Oliver, then Spencer. He didn't know Spenser

Oliver was one and the same person. We thought we were dealing

with two different people.

Q ---------

You can't say at the time what you heard?

A I didn't realize that.

Q You don't want to go into specific details --

A

NW 7067 Docld:591 2111 Page 23


Q You can't divulge the contents of any conversation.

A

Q You can't disclose the contents of any illegally inte -

cepted message, and I think you run the risk ------- and if it

is printed in the newspapers ------

VOICE: Have you read the statute?

A Yes.

Q I'd be very general if I were you as to who is talkin

now.

A Let's not mention this guy's name.

Q You can do that.

A The reason I say this is you see what I amtrying to

show you here is it was my impression after they went in this

first time, they first of all, number one, didn't know where

they were putting their electronic units. They were aiming for

Larry O'Brien. There is no doubt in my mind. I was told that.

I was supposed to visually identify him if he was on the balcon

or sitting in the office. But from what I gather from conver-

sations which we will get into later, they didn't even

were in Larry O'Brien's office. You know it is pretty obvious

once you have been over there and seen Larry O'Brien's office

which is Mr. O'Brien's office and which is a staff member's,

because his office is a beautiful office with all kinds of

mementos and whato But I don't think, my opinion is they dido'

NW 7067 Docld:591 2111 Page 24


59

I'm sorry, or scmething like that ------

Q Did he identify hbnselfq

A He had his wallet out and I think he went back

toward his car. My concern was, I wondered if McCord was going

to say he is an ex-agent.

Q He did identify hbnself?

A I don't think he did identify hbnself. I don't think

he identified himself as being a member of the Camnittee and

being on security work. I think he just said, "I'm sorry, it i

late, I shouldn't have turned.'' He didn't get the ticket.

We want back, he left me off. I don't believe he came by the

next day at all because I mow I slept Saturday afternoon. He

came over to the roan on Sunday--'-------we might have even trie

to monitor on Sunday because you know, people work at the Dem~

cratic Headquarters all day and all night, they work wierd hour •

They were there till 3:00 and 4:00 in the morning_. I am pretty

sure we did sane monitoring on Sunday --tried to.

Q You shouldn't disclose

A You don't want to go into any of this?

NW 7067 Docld:591 2111 Page 25


61

the operations .in Roan 723.

So that takes you up to Monday, the time I take the

tour up to the 12th.

We monitor out of that roan, 723. I say we, me. I

came b~fck --another time I went hcme and when r,:came into the

roan McCord was sitting there.

Q -------meantime, without giving any specific conver-

sations, the type of conversations you were overhearing were--

You could have a TV set playing

and there is a little screen and soon as a conver·sation starts,

you know, there is a little line 'Constantly going across on thi

like a little miniature TV 'set ------ but the minute J:cgot up

in the morning the unit woU'ld go on and I'd monitor as late as

I could.

Q Fran 7:30 till midnight maybe?

A If there was somebody in that office --

0 You'd sit there all day?

A --------there was at least anywheres fran 10 to 20

phone calls. Whether i twas personal, trip reservations, or

strategy calls or what, you know, I'd say the majority of 601~

NW 7067 Docld:591 2111 Page 26


62

0 Would you say that McCord seemed mostly interested in

McGovern?

A No, because at that point McGovern's name really wasn't

in place. McGovern real,y didn't become a contender fran what

I observed until after C~lifornia.

0 You were concerned enough ab.out McGovern-------

0 What about the bug, was this sticking out?

A There was none.

0 There was no bug?

A Not prior to that. What we were receiving was strict y

over the phone and there was not>.o9y else doing this stuff eithe •

I was the only one doing it 'because I even complained ---- he

said if it gets real busy we will get somebody else.

A No, because male-fem·ale type adapter that went fran

the tape recorder, there was no way to hook up, that is, the plpgs

NW 7067 Docid: 591 2Yrfep~~et 2'daptable. We tried splicing, we tried everything.

71

sounding. That name had never been Qrought up~before.

Q · -Murray Chottner is an old-time asspciate of Nixo,n' s.

He is ::i;n the White H9use now. He also has so01~thi,J8 to do with c'~·:,_(~,,~,;.~,},,-~?ej'~~1-f • -

security. , ·And the FBI nev~r a~ked you about Murray G,hottn~r7

A That is intere~ting, isn't it?, The thing that amazes . . I

'-'~"""'"'"'"'--.. -~_.. l

me about that name you just· said is. the fact I couldn't spell at

last name./- I. couldn't spell it. M>st names I can spell.

0 Was there a second name? You $aid fhey told you ,:~.

A --you said Murray--

0 you said there was a second name the FBl· mentioned to

you one time· and you asked them what it was later and they woul· n'

tell you but that is not it?

A That is not it;;· ---~ :~\;} ··i • \"·

~ou see he a> uld spell Murray --·----~

and if ·he would have said it I would have<put Murray down, a~-

suming, it is" a last name and then he said· th~;, second name. I

said aliat '·is that and he had to spell ito. . __ , ___ _ -:··,·: ..

'~ - ... -are you talking about an "R!-' o,r "C"?

0 Let me ask you something--

A,,. Christ! These people could pull these unusual /

. .-\

names.

0 Were th•~e two very important thin~s -----? --··

A They ~re that important, yes.

0

A

FOIA(b) (3) - 18 USC 2510-2520, Title III Wire Tap Court Sealedll

NW 7067 Docld:591#2111 Page 28

soundi g

II FOIA(b) (3) - 18 USC 2510-2520, Title III Wire Tap ,._ Court Sealed

72

\

' l ) \. #

~ I

J #;

lr-------------------------~--------~~--~----~----------~---T

Till that first name the Bureau came out, you know, they didn't

come up with any other names, they gave mec thci_s , one name and out

-the ria~s that Vwasn' t of -all they gave me day, and keen on it

at 'ill'.;,bUt tha't was the name that I picked-- -;..,·~·SE!dai.l). {Sealy) ~: \~1 (

(phone't:ic spellings) out of the newspape~ _and ~ou throw this ODE

()ut. The two of those names co.ald be right along side each othEr.

It is ·-an unusual name.

0 Is that a secretary

A When th~y say secretary, that could be secretary for

an overall office.

I think that takes us up to when we take the tour and

MCCord gets ba~k.

You see now wh,en I am monitoring the people leave the

office, nobody is in the office over this weeken~, they are dow

in Texas.

0 By t:he way, let me ask you one thing at this point:

to yoqr knowledge did you ever know anything about taking pictu,es

NW 7067 Docid: 591 :S'i!r ~~r~ of documents?

Lo A. TIMES TAPES -- COURT"' S CORRECTIONS AND ADDITIONS

,, ' ' '

page 10, line

page 14, line

page 17, line

page 18, line

page 22, line

19

7

13

3

-~1 ~NW 7067 Docld:59162111 Page 30

--~· ---~-------~-- .. --·_,---··.

HR should be PR

ban should be bank

Tom, Jr. should be Tom Judd

insert "not" between "I was" and "government employee''

Documents

· Washington, D.C. 20001 Dear Judge Sirica: 1 1 tr~nr J_;~~L I hereby petition the Court to unseal the tape recording of approximately five-and-a-half hours duration, and the transcript