VET FUNDING REVIEW March 31

Improve the quality, stability and sustainability of the Victorian training market

&

Manage training expenditure within the existing vocational training budget

•A diversity of input from a range of organisations/sectors: including industry: 32 people in attendance; (3 apologies)

•Facilitated by: Graham Bastian•Hosted by: Goldfields LLEN•Notes taken by: Anne Brosnan (GLLEN Executive Officer)

Participants

Sectors contributing: AIG AIGTS Manufacturing – Keech Australia La Trobe University Bendigo Bendigo – Kangan TAFE Access Employment Bendigo & Continuing Education Bendigo – RTOs Bendigo Senior Secondary College – Years 11 & 12 Crusoe and Bendigo East Secondary Colleges – Years 7-10 Charlton College – P-12 North West DET Region – Bendigo Office Work Place Learning Manager – CVGT Net School – Bendigo Continuing Education Castlemaine – ACFE/Learn Local Future Employment Opportunities – RTO Skills Training VIC Total Training Solutions Job Skills Training Goldfields LLEN

a. Match training delivery to the growing job opportunities in Victorian industries Vic – highest youth unemployment statistics with the exception of

Tasmania and more prevalent in Victorian rural and regional areas System funds an individual - VTG provides only; a forward advancement

with qualifications A balance re individual and industry needs for upgrading; strong industry

focus Regional profile needs promoting to ascertain trends in skill shortage

areas – Environmental Scans are important ( for example Goldfields LLEN Environmental Scan)

Regional needs not captured when needs are looked at from an Australian perspective; needs to be more contextual/local

How can we change a training package so it can allow/be flexible for localisation?

Public provider/TAFE – needs funds/grants/partnerships with industry to meet emerging industries

Manufacturing is ignored (in Bendigo;) still the largest contributor; massive and fast change is occurring; need to be included in the growth needs

VET provision (education & training) can’t be a nimble environment but needs to be to cater for industry needs

Massive gaps between industry and education/schools Europe mandatory that there are links to industry and the development of

courses in education/training Need to embed training in industry

b. Ensure all government subsidised training is high quality

Recent & critical press coverage relating to not acknowledging RPL , insufficient training and poor competency based learning

Standards required in industry are not being met What is quality training? Increasing regulations - won’t result in increased quality of training Need to undertake audits in a different way – rather than with an

administrative focus link to industry based competencies and quality ratings Need to recommit to the quality of training 2012 – addressing skills shortages – good providers – hours of delivery and the

financial resources were not commensurate; reduction in hourly rate had a significant impact in some areas

Lack of clarity re future planning re needs Breakdown what is actually needed Too many personal trainers Age care training encouraged – appropriate?

c. Allow rural and regional communities to access training that meets their local needs

Role for video conferencing etc to assist in the delivery of training Need to make more use of technology Course work on line and industry support re applied learning Scale and efficiencies re technology - need to engage with industry Logistics re technology – funding required Govt cut the travel allowance and on the job training; impact as a result for young

people More expensive to fund in regional and rural; transport issues – access & costs for

youth; need to factor this in RDV to consider/advocate for Secondary school teachers – older – outlying schools struggling to staff courses Bold question – do we need qualified teachers here? Continue education in multiple forums Apprentice maintenance costs too high Learn Locals/Neighbourhood Houses are dropping their RTO status – too difficult Need to work together more; partnerships New models of delivery; new partnerships; eg North Central Trade Training Centre

partnerships with health providers and TAFEs Govt contracts though making this more difficult re lack of resourcing; partnerships

need funding La Trobe – rapid contraction – first thing to go – reduction in VET; did support local

school and outlying schools needs with study and training until cuts occurred

c. Allow rural and regional communities to access training that meets their local needs

Hard also for student placements in rural settings Govt needs to support industry placements – not to seen as a non-funded

placement $ss are required Emerging industries – how to respond in a targeted manner – job by job re

industry requirements; break down the requirements

d. Meet community service obligations to support vulnerable and higher needs learners to complete training and transition to employment

TAFEs - no provision at this time for support services – no funding for hearing impaired yet if not provide support – discriminatory?

Extra support required – for example an interpreter service has to brought from Melbourne

Fighting for funding to support students; equity must still be part of our service

Needs to be funded How can industry play a role with this? Forward movement of qualifications for students (VTG) re $ss Students don’t attract funding – sideways movement - to access level of

training at point of need VET does attract students requiring extra support Need more flexibility; students can’t always more forward Federal impact with other programs – for example, Youth Connections

ceasing; removal of support to guide/navigate vulnerable students towards a relevant education/training pathway

Recent Deloitte study showed that 85% of students have some risk issues including co-morbidity factors

Many Neighbourhood Houses and ACFE/Learn Local Providers have given up their RTOs status; not viable – a significant issue across Victoria

e. Build a strong and responsive public Technical and Further Education (TAFE ) sector

Long term unemployed - payroll tax exemptions for industry in new growth areas

Cost structures different for TAFE – huge legacy costs; get rid of the legacy costs; needs to be addressed

Must level the playing field re differentiation with TAFE and RTOs Costs of training differs – more expensive for TAFE Industrial relations is an issue and overheads with infrastructure Need more flexibility with training etc as required Why does training need to be in an educational institution? Tackle industrial relations e.g. the 800 hour rule for TAFE teachers. Give subsidies for quality completion /performance – factored into pay and

conditions Subsidies for infrastructure costs – recurrent funding TAFEs did have 77% of training market; now 23% Training costs for TAFEs are not competitive Competition in the private sector is also important; there is community pay

back TAFE doing the heavy lifting – subsidy rates are not adequate Private RTOs able to be more nimble – less infrastructure RTOs can/have cherry picked Does TAFE provide any training that Private providers do?

f. Manage training expenditure within the existing vocational training budget while preserving a framework of student driven choices

Framework of student driven choices – currently NOT student driven Where is the fat in the system? Where are the opportunities? Degree of skimming occurring Need to level the playing field? No genuine review occurred re value of money proposition Need to moderate student choice? More targeted to genuine pathway Quality/current/skilled career practitioners to provide? Resourcing required Community and industry needs – need to be a positive drive from community and

industry to demonstrate pathways Lack of ethics re some sign ups with students who have no idea what they are

signing up for and the associated costs – some private RTOs Often TAFEs have to try and resolve issues that occur as a result of these issues $ss we have - to spend wisely; school age students – schools should manage We must get away from being driven by the providers; driven by industry needs;

providers mostly don’t know the pathways Govt needs some level of safeguards re options for young people Thorough assessment re real student choice Assessment in the school rather than with the training provider Do schools know how to implement a vocational assessment? Training of staff

required

g.Recognize the public and private benefits of training and ensure fees and student costs are not a barrier to participation

Need public and private providers Private have the potential to respond and trial and innovate Need both; public do the heavy lifting at the minute Some very good private providers Balance needed Skilling for industry is paramount Deregulation of tuition fees has skewed the market Mix not right re private and public acknowledgement Need some buy in from the student; some contribution required Red flag if a course is offered for NO fees Some student costs are prohibitive – need calibration We need to be a clever country; federal funding with VET fee support if a

student can’t pay? Targeted pathway helps students if they can see a link to industry ACS & Group Training Companies have targets to meet – they are players in

the market McDonalds – part time Traineeships at AQF Level III – no further opportunities

left for the young person due to VTG up skilling Pushing students up not always appropriate for students – sideways

movement needed/flexibility, up skilling requirement for funding is a concern across a broad range of stakeholders

h. Ensure eligibility to access subsidised training is fair and well-targeted

No capacity for up skilling – bridging – retraining if returning to work (women/men from family leave if already a degree holder) - discriminatory

If already done a Cert 3 and then offered a Pre App – student has to pay full fees then too prohibitive

How address this? Ability to pay in the future when earning/ Look at how/why employers sign up young people Encourage life long learning Need of industry and individual - need more flexibility Consider a time weighted eligibility re access to subsidised training to

support a career change (particularly if matched to a skill shortage area) Sponsor – an employer sponsor an individual to retrain? Need to be a clever country! How to encourage and support ‘life long learning’ with restrictions

upskilling and the two course per lifetime rule at an AQF level.

I How other govt policy levers may be used to support the quality, stability and sustainability of the Victorian training market

Regulation of training providers Cuts to travel allowances – ramifications re access to training for some cohorts How can Bendigo support the new growth areas? Social procurement process for the City of Greater Bendigo may help Youth Connections ceased – no replacement service Regional Development Policy needs to be accommodating/advocating for

contextualisation/flexibility re regional and rural needs RTOs thoroughly audited

Requirements for govt contracted training provision Minutia /compliance detracts from actual service – too much focus here Won’t result in quality assurance/provision Support for Learn Locals to engage here?

Information & decision support tools for students Federal impact with other programs – eg Youth Connections ceasing Skilled career practitioners available Highly skilled and fully funded/well paid School/Industry Liaison Officers

Implications for national training policy Come July 1, Work for The Dole and NEIS scheme – mandating training for unemployed &

underemployed young people – VET study if combined with mandatory work obligations; implications?

k. The implications of recommended reforms for other directly-related areas of education in Victoria (including secondary schooling and the roll out of new Tech Schools and the higher education sector)

ATC and Trades Training Centres here How will this initiative deliver quality training etc….. Pathways – articulated pathways Some early work happening here – Health, Early Childhood and Agriculture Centre for Sustainability – 4 semesters of training ; carpentry, engineering,

electro-technology and plumbing? Manufacturing Centre of Excellence? Mobility to adapt - flexibility in what is needed A lot of investment in infrastructure Development with the capability of people crucial Investment in the Trade Training Centres Tech Centres around local need Model proposed – service Years 7 – 12 VET completed more quickly; maintain student interest Strong pull of industry required Need far more focus on applied learning as well as providing the underpinning

knowledge – literacy and numeracy Over crowded curriculum; may take time then away from the practical areas

Some general reflections

Really outstanding event with strong and intense input from those (many) attendees who were prepared to contribute. High quality and thoughtful points and remarks encouraged by the moderator at the front

General and highly-specific information (including examples from known people and their situations from as recently as the current week) relayed by sector personnel and executives

Showed critical importance of this whole "skills-building and training" impetus particularly in regional and rural Victoria. Reference made to "dodgy" and selfish RTOs and their money-making schemes, being run by ABC local radio listeners plus the national and Victorian press, in recent articles

I took particular note of the emphatic statement by at least one of the contributors that what we are all talking about and trying to implement is and will remain a matter of

F U N D I N G. The amount that seems to have been denied to this sector in recent years; the de-funding of the popular TAFE movement, is extraordinary, even to a non-practitioner like myself