Blaine Interview 5-3-11

1. [00:00:00.00] Jen: Yeah, I guess, just, I’m curious to hear a little about some of the conversations you’ve been having with Dr. Redish, and – you’re a bio major? Is that right?

2. [00:00:13.27] Blaine: Yeah.

3. [00:00:14.04] Jen: Are you a junior?

4. [00:00:15.09] Blaine: Yeah.

5. [00:00:15.25] Jen: Okay. Any sense of what you want to do with your bio major?

6. [00:00:20.19] Blaine: It’s kind of up in the air, and I’m always changing my mind. In the beginning I thought research, and now maybe professional school, so I’m just kind of juggling back and forth. I’m just trying to keep my grades up so I can have the options.

7. [00:00:32.19] Jen: Definitely, just keep everything on the table.

8. [00:00:34.10] Blaine: Yeah.

9. [00:00:35.00] Jen: Anything in particular that you could potentially be interested in researching?

10. [00:00:40.26] Blaine: I’m really interested in genetics.

11. [00:00:42.12] Jen: Oh cool.

12. [00:00:43.05] Blaine: Epigenetics, that’s really what I like right now.

13. [00:00:45.11] Jen: Okay. Are you in a genetics course?

14. [00:00:47.26] Blaine: Yeah, I’ve taken a genetics course every year since I’ve been here.

15. [00:00:51.21] Jen: That’s so cool. How many of those are required versus, like, electives for you?

16. [00:00:59.29] Blaine: One. Only one out of all of them is required. I mean, they’re kind of fulfilling requirements for my major, but nothing that they force you to take. I chose out of like a list of things. And then actually one that I’m taking now is just like an upper-level elective for me. So I’m taking molecular genetics now.

17. [00:01:15.06] Jen: Cool.

18. [00:01:16.05] Blaine: Yeah.

19. [00:01:16.21] Jen: What are the other ones that you’ve taken?

20. [00:01:18.18] Blaine: Bioinformatics and integrated genomics, principles of genetics and I’ve taken the genetics of cancer.

21. [00:01:27.22] Jen: Oh wow.

22. [00:01:29.08] Blaine: And, uh –

23. [00:01:30.01] Jen: That’s a quagmire.

24. [00:01:31.17] Blaine: Yeah. (Jen laughs) And then in other classes, they’re always talking about genetics.

25. [00:01:36.05] Jen: Yeah. Very cool.

26. [00:01:38.14] Blaine: Yeah.

27. [00:01:39.16] Jen: And so you’re, you’ve taken the full year of physics with Dr. Redish? Right?

28. [00:01:44.13] Blaine: Yeah.

29. [00:01:45.10] Jen: Can you just catch me up on some of the things – essentially he was like, this guy Blaine’s been talking to me a lot, um, and it’d be good to talk to him, so I don’t know what the context of that is?

30. [00:01:56.06] Blaine: Um –

31. [00:01:56.28] Jen: But I’m curious as to what you guys have been talking about.

32. [00:01:59.00] Blaine: Well I would go into his office to get help on homework, and then we would start talking about other things, as it goes when you talk to Dr. Redish (Jen laughs), that you get into conversations about other things, and, uh, we spoke about his new projects. And last semester I was in 207, and I had Higgins and Jeffrey as my teachers. And, you know, I’d hear all the time from Dr. Redish, this is what pressure is, and then I’d hear, you know, this is fluid through a pipe or a cell. And I’d learn it one way with Dr. Redish, and then I’d walk into class with Dr. Higgins, and he’d say, “The physicists are stupid, don’t listen to them.”

33. [00:02:36.16] Jen: Are you serious?

34. [00:02:37.20] Blaine: Yeah, not like in a bad, like in a joking way, but he would say this is what pressure is, it’s like the amount that you have, it’s not necessarily, like, force per area or whatever it is. It’s like the amount that you have, the concentration per – and it would change around, so I always thought that, uh, at least after talking with him and taking both classes in a semester, that physics is kind of like the rules for biology and like the rules for chemistry. Chemistry – part of being a bio major is I take almost just as many chemistry courses as I take biology courses. And so the rules for chemistry come from physics, and so I thought they should – especially since we’re all in the school together now, in the college, that there should be more integration, at least so they’re not butting heads when I’m in a physics class at the same time as taking – I was unique in having the opportunity to take 207 as a junior. So I got to see, like, during the semester while we were learning about, like, I forget whose principle it is, like with a pipe flowing -- it’s over like the area squared? What is it? Fluid --

35. [00:03:45.06] Jen: Not Fick’s, right? Fick’s? No?

36. [00:03:47.09] Blaine: It’s the flow, the pressure flow, when it goes down, there’s a pressure going up or something like that? I forget what it is, but it’s over the area squared, and we were talking about that in Dr. Redish’s class, but then, you know, we were asked questions on a test in Higgins that was the same principle, and I could arrive at the same thing, but he was asking in a completely, like, a completely different way that kind of like butted heads because he defined pressure differently than Dr. Redish did.

37. [00:04:11.03] Jen: Okay. So, is it fair to say that you were seeing, like, what you were doing in Dr. Redish’s class –

38. [00:04:17.10] Blaine: Yeah.

39. [00:04:17.20] Jen: As potentially helping you in Higgins class?

40. [00:04:20.18] Blaine: Yeah, it would, it definitely would have helped if it wasn’t butting heads, you know, if there was more, like, a general understanding as to how, to how, like, just pressure’s my example, to how the biologists viewed pressure, at least how Dr. Higgins viewed pressure, and how Dr. Redish taught us pressure. So it could have helped because, I mean, all biological systems like I said follow the physical rules and evolve, you know, only, evolution can only happen with like physics being the rules for it. That’s how it just comes about, so –

41. [00:04:52.07] Jen: Can you give me an example of kind of what you’re – so when you’re talking about, like, evolution sort of happening partly based on physical principles? Like how you think about that?

42. [00:05:04.03] Blaine: I mean, just even, even the way our – so I remember thinking of specific examples, but now I don’t remember the ones I had –

43. [00:05:12.07] Jen: No worries.

44. [00:05:13.05] Blaine: Like, you know, the way, the way we have action potentials with separating the charge, almost like a capacitor and letting it come through, and all those, all those things like evolve because the pressure, evolution happens, you know, because of pressure, and there’s only physical pressure because of physics, you know, and the rules of the world and the universe that allow it to happen. It’s like, uh, oh what else would be some examples? I’d have to think. Just like, but, I mean, every principle we learn in physics can be applied to biology because it’s somehow used or, um, like animals, you know, use magnetism, like, a lot of them – I have some very specific things I was thinking about, but I forget.

45. [00:05:58.16] Jen: Yeah, no worries. I’m sure it’s as it comes up you see the connections –

46. [00:06:01.17] Blaine: Yeah, yeah.

47. [00:06:02.10] Jen: That could be there that seem to be missing for you between those two classes?

48. [00:06:08.16] Blaine: Yeah, but even things like birds, anything that you see, they can only fly because there are the certain rules to physics that allow it, and that’s why they evolved the certain way that they did, because they were able to be in line with those rules and be able to make something that would make them more fit. So everything you learned in biology has to apply to physics, and a lot of biology is, you know, biochemistry, and chemistry is all, like, physics. There’s so much overlap between chemistry and biology with the waves and the electrons and all that stuff.

49. [00:06:41.21] Jen: No, absolutely. I remember thinking, I was a bio major also in undergrad, and I remember thinking the same thing. Um, so I guess, I mean, you were in a unique situation in which you were taking bio and physics concurrently.

50. [00:06:54.03] Blaine: Yeah, especially one that spoke of a lot of physical principles.

51. [00:06:58.01] Jen: Oh, your bio class spoke of a lot of physical principles?

52. [00:06:59.22] Blaine: Yeah, 207 talks a lot about physical principles.

53. [00:07:02.18] Jen: So what are some of the things that, um, I know I’m asking you about last semester (laughs), that Higgins would talk about?

54. [00:07:11.06] Blaine: So I told you one, fluid through membranes, things like diffusion, things like, um, water potential, you know, with trees, and how does the water get up all, so, you know, the way the ions with different membranes, and the K+ leak channels, you know, the potassium leak channels that create the negative and really create that capacitor that allows us to fire off action potentials, and then all the different chemicals in nature that mess with that, like poisons and stuff and, um, toxins that mess with it, how it messes with it, and just, like – but everything, because when you take, when you take anything down to the micro level, you’re gonna end up crossing, crossing paths with other subjects.

55. [00:07:55.18] Jen: Yeah, I hear ya. I guess what I’m trying to understand – is it, like, is it your sense that the physics plays in, or was that something that was kind of like explicit in your biology class that the physical principles played a role?

56. [00:08:09.03] Blaine: It was, yeah, it was obviously explicit just because like, like I said, Higgins mentioned the fact that, you know, don’t listen to what the physicists tell you about, uh, pressure. It’s the amount of concentration you have per area as opposed to the force per area, I think I’m getting that right. I don’t really remember, but there were times when it was explicit, but then I’m thinking to myself just based on the conversation with Dr. Redish after talking about that because that was a very blatant example of we were learning about the same exact thing in physics –

57. [00:08:41.05] Jen: At the same time.

58. [00:08:42.01] Blaine: Within the same week, so it was the same thing in bio, and it was butting heads, and I was just thinking, you know, with everything that we do, like there should be more – especially as it seems science moves more to unify things, that there should be more overlap. So I liked when I heard that he was doing like, a, a physics for biology majors.

59. [00:08:59.11] Jen: Absolutely, and I think, um, yeah, and so, it’s interesting because it sounds like – so the physics, so what you’re saying is that the physical principles are coming up in Higgins class, but the physics of the physical principles are different than sort of the physics of the physical principles that you’re learning in your physics class? Is that fair?

60. [00:09:18.28] Blaine: Sorry, can you rephrase that?

61. [00:09:19.22] Jen: (laughs) Yeah.

62. [00:09:20.08] Blaine: Thanks.

63. [00:09:20.18] Jen: So, like, it’s not that physical principles aren’t coming up in your biology class. They were, but like the nature of them in biology are somehow different from the nature of what you were learning in physics.

64. [00:09:34.28] Blaine: Right, right. And, uh, or they were taught differently, or they were defined differently because I guess all physics is is kind of defining things, so it’s defined differently in biology. And then, and then at points I saw where it could have really helped, it kind of impeded a little bit because I had to learn it one way for biology and I had to learn it one way for physics.

65. [00:09:57.01] Jen: Yeah. Interesting. So how do you end up, like, studying for both of those classes, for example?

66. [00:10:06.16] Blaine: Just the way I would think of – when I was taking Dr. Redish’s tests, I would think of, just this example, pressure in the way he taught it to us, and when I took Dr. Higgins’ class, I would think of pressure the way he taught it to us. And I’d study like that. But, um, it really, it really, like, it didn’t seem like it met up. Like the same principles kind of, like you have some kind of occlusion, it’s over the area squared, so of course the flow’s going to be a lot lower, but, so I’m definitely mixing up a few things, but that was basically from what I remembered.

67. [00:10:42.07] Jen: Okay. Yeah. So I guess I’m trying to, like, do you think it would be a helpful situation to have physics before you take biology?

68. [00:10:53.28] Blaine: Well –

69. [00:10:55.20] Jen: I wonder because you have this interesting situation where it’s concurrent, but I think a lot of students, like, take bio and then take physics like the year after?

70. [00:11:02.20] Blaine: Yeah. That’s how it’s set up here, like you take physics your junior year even though it’s like an 100 level class. So, I mean, I don’t personally like love physics. I don’t even really like it that much, but it’s something that you need to know. Just like I’m not the biggest chemistry fan, but it’s something I need to know for biology. Otherwise I won’t fully understand biology, so I don’t know if it’s necessarily taking it beforehand, but maybe more of, you know, we’re in this huge college right now, so it could be more a type of pyramid where you, you know, you tell if teachers are making syllabi for various different classes, like for 207 let’s say, or even, I didn’t take 100 level bios, I placed out, so I don’t know about that, but – or

even, you do take some physics in high school, but at least saying if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna teach this principle, try and have it be so it can apply to other, when you’re teaching the same principle in another class because there shouldn’t be that situation where it’s butting heads as opposed to it should help you. But I don’t know if taking physics before would help. Maybe because more so physics applies to biology than biology I think applies, you take the lessons from biology to physics, but then I don’t know because I’m not a physics major taking a biology class.

71. [00:12:18.06] Jen: Yeah, no, I hear ya. I mean, so like, kind of physics you were saying being the rules –

72. [00:12:24.10] Blaine: Yeah.

73. [00:12:24.18] Jen: That sort of drive then chemistry and biology almost –

74. [00:12:27.04] Blaine: Yeah.

75. [00:12:27.17] Jen: Not quite hierarchical, I’m not sure if you’re thinking of it kind of as a hierarchical thing? Or just –

76. [00:12:33.11] Blaine: Well, physics is kind of at the top because physics was, I don’t want to say there, but physics was there kind of first thing in the universe, is the physics. And then you have chemistry because of the physics, and then you have the evolution of biological systems only because they can use chemistry and physics together. So I guess it is kind of hierarchical.

77. [00:12:53.29] Jen: Yeah, to accommodate the environment that they’re in. Yeah, I guess, some – I’m still thinking about this pressure example because I think it’s a great – I can completely picture the situation you’re talking about where how it’s talked about in your biology course is almost contradictory in some ways to how it’s talked about in your physics course. So do you see that, I guess, as a rhetorical thing, that they’re not talking to each other, and so not – or, or are the principles different in the two courses?

78. [00:13:28.08] Blaine: They’re not. I know because again, it’s solely how you define it. Like when you say pressure, it’s just a definition of something that’s there and that’s gonna be there whether we define it or not. So it’s just how it’s defined. So he’s defining pressure different than Dr. Redish was. I remember I talked to him and he said they once spoke, it’s just how it was. But I guess it is just definitions, so maybe if they could kind of, they could kind of in some type of hierarchical manner not totally control the teachers, but say if you’re going to teach this, make sure it doesn’t contradict, flat out what you’re learning in a physics class.

79. [00:14:07.02] Jen: Yeah. Yeah, I hear ya. I mean is there, I’m wondering if we can even brainstorm some ways because I think like the whole purpose of these conversations are to talk about how these things are taught at the college level, so like this is exactly the kind of thing that I think Dr. Redish and other professors are interested in getting feedback on. Um, so I guess is there a sense of – like how might it be useful to you to incorporate more of the physical principles into biology for example? Like are there particular ways that you think that would be beneficial?

80. [00:14:45.09] Blaine: I mean, I can tell you from my own experience. I really like when I’m taking a biology course and I say, wow, that thing that I learned in orgo, this makes sense now. I understand with the DNA and all the stuff, why, like the chemicals and the methylations and all this random stuff you learn about, I like that. It not only makes me feel good, but it like feels like I’ve just completed a puzzle, like actually, you know, it’s not just all these pieces scattered all over. So, so just, it’s nice when you’re able to unify things, unify rules and principles together, so I think it is really nice if physics would be taught to a biology major in a way that they can then take it and apply it as opposed to, I know this is an extreme example, but butting heads. So I don’t know how that could be done, maybe, you know, kind of, like, I don’t know how they do it in college. Make like a committee of physics, biology, and chemistry teachers and talk about basic principles that are taught in the lower-level courses and make sure they’re not butting heads with each other.

81. [00:15:47.22] Jen: Yeah. I mean, the butting heads is an extreme example, but it happened (laughs) –

82. [00:15:51.08] Blaine: Yeah.

83. [00:15:51.29] Jen: So it’s not, it’s not –

84. [00:15:53.00] Blaine: And, and then just going along with that, there might be some people who, you know, disagree, say no, this is this, but then since it’s just us defining with words certain principles, just change the way you define it. Even if you’re – not necessarily a new word, but call that then pressure and call this other thing, you know, but have it in a way where they could help you out and so students have that feeling of the puzzle coming together as opposed to it’s just pieces scattered apart because I figure they’re making me take this for my major for a reason, probably because it has to do with each other.

85. [00:16:27.25] Jen: One would hope, right.

86. [00:16:28.29] Blaine: So they should make sure to integrate it more. So I feel that this is, you know, when we do the homeworks for Dr. Redish, like I liked when he gave us the homework on – even just this week where he’s giving us

a cell as if it were a capacitor, like assessing how much extra charge in the ions you need to create this certain potential difference. Or I remember last semester when we were learning about the flow, he had us work out why a little bit of a blockage really amounts to a lot different in how much is flowing through and everything like that. And it really actually helps me understand, and it’s gonna help me understand further no matter what I do, and I like that, but I really don’t like when things don’t fit together. Like it would be nice in my chemistry classes if they spoke a little bit more about it in a biological sense. If they know 95% of the class are biologists. So –

87. [00:17:25.08] Jen: So how does chemistry fit into all of this? Have you seen this sort of disconnect there too, or –

88. [00:17:31.15] Blaine: Well, in the chemistry, for example, like when we’re learning the waves and stuff, they’re not really going to go in-depth in the physics of that because they know, like, biologists don’t know that and aren’t going to know the uncertainty principle and the exclusion and all that stuff. So they just teach it as it is. But, um, I see more the chemistry playing into the biology for me personally than I see, like, physics playing into chemistry because I don’t know enough. I’m just taking 121 and 122. But I really see the chemistry butting its head all the time into my classes. Everything we learn, whether it’s genetics, everything, it’s chemistry. And then physics too. So –

89. [00:18:10.26] Jen: Now, when you’re saying butting its head, do you mean butting up against it –

90. [00:18:13.24] Blaine: No, now I used it both ways. In a good way, it’s kind of like –

91. [00:18:16.23] Jen: Butting in?

92. [00:18:17.14] Blaine: Yeah, butting in. Like, uh (laughs), just everything in, in biology is chemistry. And then everything in, is also physics too. So – but it’s hard for me to point it out because I don’t know enough about those subjects to –

93. [00:18:35.06] Jen: No, I hear ya, but I think it’s great to be able to be making those connections because I think a lot of times when the subjects are so seemingly disconnected sometimes from each other, I don’t think it’s, you know, completely expected that students are going to make those connections on their own.

94. [00:18:53.03] Blaine: Not only that, but I feel like students will enjoy taking physics – relatively, will enjoy taking physics more if they can see it apply to

something they’re learning everyday. And every single semester of the school year. As opposed to it just being something separate I have to take.

95. [00:19:08.22] Jen: Yeah. And are you saying Dr. Redish’s course kind of serves that for you, I mean –

96. [00:19:14.25] Blaine: Well, he –

97. [00:19:15.08] Jen: With the homeworks it connects out in different ways?

98. [00:19:16.16] Blaine: Yeah, yeah, he definitely knows who he’s teaching to in the audience, so he does a really good job of talking about that kind of stuff, but then you’ve gotta make sure at the other end the biology people know that too and are doing that. And even in chemistry, I think it’s more obvious the connections, but you still have to make them on your own. The teachers are not teaching chemistry to a biologist, they’re just teaching chemistry as chemistry. But the connections are a lot easier to make on its own because you see, like in the amino acids, you see, like, all the stuff you learned in organic chemistry.

99. [00:19:49.19] Jen: Yeah. Exactly. And all the different interactions that can happen. Yeah. I hear ya. So I think there’s a push, um, and I’m guessing you’d be in favor of this push, but there’s a push in 207 or at least certain sections of 207 to sort of include or infuse more math and physics in learning some of the biological principles. Now, I don’t know if that’s going to turn out to be they’re infusing pressure and it’s this other sort of wonky definition of pressure that sort of doesn’t match up, but, I mean, I would, so sort of a move like that?

100. [00:20:26.06] Blaine: I actually think it would be – I mean, I haven’t taken enough classes at Maryland to know, I haven’t taken biochemistry yet, but I wonder if it would be good to take 121 when you’re taking, when you’re taking 207.

101. [00:20:37.25] Jen: When you’re taking 207.

102. [00:20:39.16] Blaine: But make sure the weeks line up when you’re learning about pressure or something like that. Or just have, uh, certain interdisciplinary courses that are recommended that they’re taken together and then when you recommend they’re taken together, you make sure those two professors work together to make sure they have the, are on the same page.

103. [00:20:57.20] Jen: Yeah. I hear ya. So given that pressure is just a thing out there, and we can call it what we want to call it, like, what do you see it doing for you as a biologist? Like what, what pressure is, sort of, like –

104. [00:21:16.12] Blaine: Well, because like I said, those rules of pressure are how my body, how I’m standing right now and how blood’s getting to my heart, and how blood’s getting to my lungs, like that’s all extremely, like, everything that happens in biology only happens because of these things physicists give definitions to. So, I mean, like I keep – like I said before, it’s just definitions. But so, like, those definitions, whatever we call those things –

105. [00:21:43.07] Jen: Correspond to something.

106. [00:21:44.01] Blaine: Correspond to, yeah, and that’s why we are the way we are. You know, even gravity makes me, you know, who I am and how my body works, so everything, even if it’s not as explicit, applies to it. So pressure – and it obviously applied because they were teaching it in 207, so it applied to the, you know, with trees, and with any type of vascular system.

107. [00:22:04.22] Jen: Yeah, like with transpiration and with water actually being able to make it up there.

108. [00:22:07.17] Blaine: Yeah, our own cells and vessels and everything like that, so – and, uh, even, even air into your lungs, like there needs to be certain pressure and everything like that –

109. [00:22:22.28] Jen: Yeah, that’s like a negative situation, right? It’s almost like a suction –

110. [00:22:27.03] Blaine: Yeah, I think so.

111. [00:22:28.17] Jen: Thing that kind of goes on.

112. [00:22:30.01] Blaine: But there also needs to be a certain air pressure, like the atmospheric pressure in order for the oxygen to be able to diffuse. I think that’s what we learned, I don’t want to be on videotape spewing out wrong information.

113. [00:22:41.14] Jen: We’re all on videotape spewing out wrong information from time to time. (Blaine laughs) They’re going to see me just as much as you (laughs), um, wait, so pressure – what were you saying about diffusion? I mean –

114. [00:22:51.23] Blaine: Well, doesn’t there need to be a certain atmospheric pressure for, for like oxygen to be able to diffuse into your lungs? Into the alveoli and into the blood?

115. [00:23:03.09] Jen: So that’s I guess where I get into – because I’m just trying to make sense of that too, um – is that pressure? Or is that, like, concentration, and are those different things? Right, like is this what you’re saying?

116. [00:23:14.08] Blaine: Right, so I’m saying that based on what I learned in Higgins now, and that, that was concentration in a certain given area. And I remember we spent a lot of time talking about oxygen going up the mountains, and your hemoglobin changing, and you know, the graph of the hemoglobin affinity, the sig, sig-something curve, I forgot what it was called, but it was like an S – so we were learning when you go up and there’s different atmospheric pressure, how it shifts and all those things, those are all very much related, but we were talking about pressure, and we were talking about pressure in terms of concentration.

117. [00:23:46.25] Jen: In terms of, okay. Yeah. Yeah, I hear ya.

118. [00:23:53.19] Blaine: So –

119. [00:23:55.07] Jen: Okay. Any kind of other last thoughts, like other things in, um, I’m trying to think.

120. [00:24:05.06] Blaine: Yeah, me too. (Jen laughs) Uh –

121. [00:24:08.03] Jen: Um –

122. [00:24:08.27] Blaine: Uh, I think it’s definitely a move in the right direction to try and unify things, and I think it’s a new opportunity because they’re under one college now. So –

123. [00:24:20.10] Jen: And I think there is a lot more crosstalk than there used to be, so I’m hoping –

124. [00:24:23.10] Blaine: I think that’s really important.

125. [00:24:24.15] Jen: Yeah, I’m hoping too. So when talking about rules or principles, I know, I know Dr. Redish focuses a lot on principles. Are you using that interchangeably with rules when you’re talking about rules?

126. [00:24:37.14] Blaine: Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I meant.

127. [00:24:38.13] Jen: Okay. And that those are somehow, those are what drive evolution?

128. [00:24:44.15] Blaine: Yeah. I don’t – I guess I gotta, you know, elaborate on that more, it drives evolution because those are like the rules for the

universe, so the only way evolution happens is if they go by those rules, and the way the universe is made up. So I think that’s what I meant by that. But it’s definitely, it’s nice if you can graduate, instead of saying, yeah, part of my major, I had to take chemistry, and I took biology because that’s my major, and I took physics, it’d be nice to say, like, oh, I took all these classes because you need them. You actually need them to understand everything, and it all comes together, as opposed to just taking all these different interdisciplinary things for the sake of taking different things.

129. [00:25:25.04] Jen: Yeah. And you’re seeing there are moments where they do come together and enhance that understanding, but –

130. [00:25:28.15] Blaine: Yeah, but there’s never any, there’s never any explicit type of thing except with Dr. Redish, he kind of explicitly would put it out there, at least in his homeworks, explicitly show us, like, yeah, this really does affect –

131. [00:25:40.15] Jen: Biological systems.

132. [00:25:41.08] Blaine: Yeah. Yeah. So, I like that.

133. [00:25:44.18] Jen: Yeah, that’s pretty cool. Very cool. Well, this has been really helpful, and I appreciate you coming in to chat.

134. [00:25:51.29] Blaine: No problem.

135. [00:25:52.23] Jen: Um, yeah, any other last thoughts, or –

136. [00:25:57.06] Blaine: Any last questions?

137. [00:25:58.06] Jen: Not that I’m aware of (laughs) –

138. [00:25:59.12] Blaine: I don’t want to keep saying the same thing.

139. [00:26:01.05] Jen: No, I hear ya, I hear ya. Thank you very much.

Analytic Summary

Themes in what Blaine offered: Pressure treated differently in Redish’s and Higgins’ classes (32), but largely

definitional (64) Higgins emphasizes physical principles (52) Science classes should be taught in more integrated, unified fashion (34), or

at least not conflicting Won’t fully understand biology without understanding chemistry and

physics (70), but not entirely sure why (92) – mentioned that physics was

there first, then chemistry, then evolution of biological systems (76), driven by physics rules

To an extent, trusts that there must be reason behind what is taught (84) Also feels somewhat affectively driven, likes feeling of putting a puzzle

together and not the contrary (80)

So, just a brief blurb on my part. I find it particularly interesting how strongly Blaine feels that he must understand chemistry and physics to fully understand biology, but I’m still not sure exactly why he feels that’s the case. He appeals mostly to broad platitudes, as well as some examples that illustrate where he’s made connections, but did he fill in blanks that he felt were missing, or is it more that he likes to make connections? I guess I’m really asking whether he sees his biology knowledge as lacking without integration with chemistry and physics, or whether he likes putting puzzles together and feels that provides him an opportunity to do so? Obviously it could be (and likely is) both, but I get the sense that this might be driven by a more general annoyance with disconnects…

Future directions with Blaine, if desired: If all interconnected, why are there different disciplines? (Kristi’s thought) Probing how physics rules drive evolution (which I was trying to do in this

interview a bit but mostly succeeded in annoying him) – i.e., why do different animals evolve differently if they’re all subject to the same rules? Maybe thinking through particular scenarios?

I wonder if there’s a way to probe my blurb – maybe some prompt with disconnects that are not science-specific? See if there’s an affective response? (Very well noted that I might just be seeing affect everywhere nowadays…)