UG Krishnamurti - No Way Out (209p)

8/10/2019 UG Krishnamurti - No Way Out (209p)

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NO WAY OUT:

Further Dialogues with U.G.

Edited with Introduction by: Frank Noronha and J.S.R.L.Narayana Moorty

Originally Published by:Akshaya Publications Bangalore, INDIA. 1991.

You are not ready to accept the fact that you have to give up. A completeand total 'surrender'.... It is a state of hopelessness which says that thereis no way out.... Any movement in any direction on any dimension atany level is ta!ing you away from yourself.... !!U.G.
http://www.well.com/user/jct/nwo.htmhttp://www.well.com/user/jct/nwo.htm


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NO WAY OUT

Further Dialogueswith

U.G."rishna#urti

Edited by:$.%.&.'.Narayana (oorty

Anthony Paul Frank Naronha

Published byAkshaya Publications

)*+ Gan,hiba-arangalore! /0* **1 2ND2A

"y teaching if that is the word you want to use has no copyright. Youare free to reproduce distribute interpret misinterpret distort garble do

what you li!e even claim authorship without my consent or thepermission of anybody.

!! U.G.


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TA'3 OF 4ONT3NT%

Introduction

1. he !nrational Idea" o# !.$.%ri"hna&urti '' (yDr. .R.Raghunath

). Nothing to (e ran"#or&ed

*. +hat i" the Meaning o# Li#e

-. ou In/ent our Reality

0. Religiou" hinking i" Re"on"i(le #or Man2" ragedy3 A Journali"t2"Inter/ie4 4ith !.$.

5. Seeking Strengthen" Searation

6. +hat %ind o# a 7u&an Being Do ou +ant

8. he Build'! o# Se and Lo/e3 :on/er"ation 4ith a Se herai"t

9. Lea/e the Body Alone3 :on/er"ation 4ith a ;hy"ician

1


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rying to under"tand !.$. or hi" teaching" i" like trying to gra" the 4ind in theal& o# your hand. et they are a" re#re"hing and #ragrant a" a #re"h (ree>e, (utthey can al"o (e a" de/a"tating a" a 4ild #ire? hey are a" nouri"hing a" the earthand 4ater, i# only 4e can =u"t li"ten to the& and then @#orget all a(out the&?@!.$.2" teaching" can certainly (ring u" do4n to the earth #ro& the lo#ty (ut

cloudy "kie" o# illu"ion, "o that 4e can co&e (ack and li/e a @"i&le andordinary li#e@ o# eace 4ithout "truggle or con#lict?

I a& 4riting the #ollo4ing in the "irit o# re/ealing a rogre""ion in thecon"ciou"ne"" o# "o&eone 4ho i" eo"ed to !.$. andor hi" teaching" and 4hotrie" to integrate the& into hi" o4n li/ing. My conclu"ion 4ill al"o erha"re/eal the li&itation o# the con"ciou" &ind 4hen trying to re"ol/e the ue"tion"and aradoe" it #ind". In 4riting thi", I #eel that I a& ro(a(ly "eaking #or anu&(er o# other" 4ho are in the "a&e (oat a" I a&.

It2" di##icult to a""e"" !.$.2" teaching" 4ithout di"cu""ing hi" er"on and hi"li/ing, #or the o""i(ilitie" he re"ent" 4ould re&ain /ague 4ithout a li/ingea&le to re#er to. In #act, !.$. hi&"el# connect" hi" teaching" 4ith 4hat ha"haened to hi& and ho4 he li/e". It2" al"o di##icult to talk a(out !.$.2"teaching" or "tudy the& 4ithout (eing a##ected (y the&, 4ithout relating the&to one"el#. Add to thi" the #act that eole 4ho ha/e (een acuainted 4ith !.$.er"onally cannot (ut relate hi" teaching to 4hat they o("er/e o# hi&, to theirrelation"hi 4ith hi&, and to ho4 that ha" a##ected the&.

C/en then the teaching" lea/e the reader 4ondering a(out "o&e ue"tion".May(e there i" ne/er a re"olution o# the"e ue"tion". May(e li#e, a" !.$. &ight"ay, can ne/er (e under"tood. And &ay(e, again a" !.$. 4ould ut it, allatte&t" to under"tand li#e are only ere""ion" o# the one and only the&e o#hu&an thinking3 to rotect and &aintain the "el#.

ne thing I can "ay er"onally a#ter (eing acuainted 4ith !.$. and hi"teaching" #or &ore than a decade i" thi"3 I a& in no o"ition to accet or re=ect hi"teaching". hey can neither (e ro/en nor di"ro/enE and in 4hat #ollo4" I "halltry to elain 4hy it doe" not &atter that one cannot do "o. Let &e #ir"t re"entin a #e4 aragrah" 4hat a reader or li"tener &ight glean a" to the (a"ic" o# thehilo"ohy in !.$.2" teaching".

!.$. re"ent" the ro(le&" generated (y 4hat he call" the "tranglehold o#thought2 Gor o# cultureH on the hu&an (eingE that i", (y creating the "el# and"earating the indi/idual #ro& the 4orld around hi& or her, thought or culturei" re"on"i(le #or a dulicate li#e o# the indi/idual, a li#e not inti&ately connected4ith, (ut in #act #ar re&o/ed #ro& the actual 4orld o# the (ody or the li/ing


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organi"& and it" en/iron&ent. hi" dulicate li#e in turn re"ult" in &an2" "el#'centeredne"" and de"tructi/ene"".

+hile the only intere"t o# the li/ing organi"& i" to "ur/i/e G#or the &o&entH andreroduce it"el# Gor a" !.$. 4ould "ay, to roduce one like it"el#H, the intere"t o#

the thought 4orld i" to &aintain it"el#. hought &aintain" it"el# (y tran"latingeach eerience in ter&" o# a"t eerience", interreting it a" lea"ant orain#ul, and ur"uing it i# it #ind" it lea"ant and a/oiding it i# it #ind" it ain#ul.Cach eerience create" a #ictitiou" idea o# the "el# in u" (y "eeking continuity o#it"el#, (y de&anding to (e reeated through 4hat !. $. call" @the lea"ure&o/e&ent.@ For in"tance, 4hen a a"t eerience re"ent" it"el# in the re"ent&o&ent a" de"ira(le, it al"o "i&ultaneou"ly create" the idea o# the "el# #or 4hichthe eerience i" de"ira(le.

he "el#, ho4e/er, i" not a real entity, nor i" there any entity called the &ind,

4hich i" really another na&e #or the "el#, nor i" there "o&ething called urecon"ciou"ne"", #or there i" no con"ciou"ne"" 4hich doe" not in/ol/e a tran"lationor interretation o# 4hat it i" con"ciou" o#, and hence 4hich doe" not in/ol/e a"el#.

In #act the eerience 4hich i" "een a" lea"ant and 4hich trie" to eretuateit"el# i" the "el#. he di/i"ion (et4een the "el# and the eerience i" one o# the&i"chie/ou" creation" o# thought. hought (uild"2 on eerience" and create"the de"ire #or ulti&ate haine""2, or, a" !.$. 4ould "ay, @a de"ire #or er&anenthaine"" 4ithout a &o&ent o# ain.@ he re"ulting dulicate li#e create" a "el#'centeredne"" and a "el#'rotecti/ene"".

!.$. "ay" that the "el#'centeredne"" created (y thought 4ill do e/erything to&aintain it"el#, e/en at the een"e o# the de"truction o# the 4orld, and thede"truction o# the /ery li/ing organi"& on 4hich thought i" (a"ed, a" 4itne""ed(y eole 4ho 4age 4ar", and 4ho kill other" or the&"el/e" #or the "ake o# anidea.

All thi" "ee&" to (e logical until 4e co&e to 4hat !.$. ha" to "ay a(out ho4 4ecan get out o# thi" "ituation3 !.$. "ay" there i" no 4ay out? All atte&t" on ourart to (eco&e #ree #ro& the "tranglehold o# thought only eretuate the "el#,

entrench u" &ore deely in it. All atte&t" at i&ro/ing the "el#, at detach&entor renunciation, o"iti/e or negati/e thinking, under"tanding, kno4ledge,&editation, religiou" or "iritual ur"uit", "ocial re#or& or re/olution ' all o#the"e, (eing initiated (y thought, can only &aintain and "trengthen the "el#.hu", they do not #ree u". @he only #reedo& there i" i" to (e #ree #ro& the /eryidea o# #reedo&.@


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!.$., ho4e/er, doe" "ay that 4hen "o&eho4 G(ut ho4, !.$.H thi" reali>ation"ink" into u", 4hen the 4hole #ield Go# the "el#H i" ehau"ted, then ahy"iological &utation can take lace. +hen thi" occur" the li/ing organi"& i"#reed #ro& the "tranglehold o# thought and return" to it" naturally eace#ulcondition. hought then @#all" into it" natural rhyth&@ (y co&ing into acti/e

#unction only 4hen it i" needed in a "ituation. But thi" i" not "o&ething that can(e cau"ed (y any e##ort or /olition2 on your or &y art. In #act the nece""arycondition #or it to haen i" #or all e##ort to cea"e.

7o4 do 4e under"tand thi" "ort o# teaching I# there i" nothing one can do a#terli"tening to !.$., i# the 4hole ro(le& o# our ei"tence aro"e out o# our de"ire"tructure, can 4e at lea"t gi/e u the 4hole enterri"e o# "eeking #ul#ill&ent and@go ho&e@ # cour"e, 4e reali>e the arado o# trying to a(andon "eeking i"it"el# (a"ed on the &oti/e o# (eco&ing #ree #ro& our ro(le&", 4hich i" in the#ir"t lace a "el#'centered concern. But 4e "ee no choiceE and 4e try to let go o#

the concern and return to our nor&al routine li#e. +e, in the roce"", e/en try to@dro@ !.$. #ro& our con"ciou"ne"", #or !.$. i" only a "y&(ol #or all that 4eha/e (een "eeking to #ul#ill our"el/e". And 4hen !.$. i" gone, the re"t i" gonetoo. All the thing" 4e "eek #or our #ul#ill&ent, including !.$., are nothing (utour"el/e". hat i" 4hy, 4hen they Gand !.$.H are gone, the "el# i" gone too.

Let &e recall, in thi" contet, a con/er"ation I recently had 4ith !.$3 I "aid to!.$., @I ha/e al4ay" (een oen to youE I #eel that a" #ar a" I a& concerned, i#anything ha" to go G&eaning taken a4ay #ro& &e, a" a re"ult o# &y kno4ing!.$.H, including &y"el#, in the roce"", that2" #ine 4ith &e. It doe" not &atter.hat2" 4hy I ha/e no re"i"tance to you.@ hen !.$. "aid in rely, @I# you go, then Igo, Sir?@ Meaning, that 4hen I can let &y"el# go, then !.$. 4ould lo"e all"igni#icance in &y con"ciou"ne"".

But (e#ore 4e e/er try thi" aroach, 4e nor&ally go through &any ue"tion",and rai"e critici"&" and o(=ection" to !.$.2" teaching" in our atte&t" to integrate!.$.2" teaching" into our li/e". I 4ill &ention a #e4 o# ue"tion" 4hich occurredto &e.

1H +hen !.$. "ay" that #or hi& thought co&e" into action only 4hen a gi/en"ituation de&and" it, 4here i" the de&arcating line (et4een 4hat the "ituation

it"el# de&and", and 4hat I Ga""u&ing that I a& !.$. #or the &o&entH de&and o#the "ituation +hen "o&eone, #or in"tance, a"k" &e a ue"tion, or &ake" areue"t, I "ay "o&ething to hi& in re"on"e G&y re"on"e, a" !.$. 4ould "ay,co&ing #ro& &y conditioningH. Suo"e he i" not "ati"#ied 4ith &y re"on"e, (utlater co&e" (ack 4ith the "a&e ue"tion or de&and. No4, do I ha/e a "ituationto re"ond to, or i" it &y o4n need Gco&ing erha" #ro& &y conditioning, "ay,o# ro/ing &y"el#, or not arting 4ith &y &oney ea"ilyH, 4hich "o&eho4


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re""e" &e to #urther rely to hi& I" &y "econd re"on"e =u"t a re"on"e elicited(y the "ituation or i" it &y re/iou" re"on"e de&anding to reeat it"el# 7o4can I tell the di##erence

r, to ut the "a&e di##iculty in other 4ord", it i" not clear ho4 one could &ake

"en"e o# !.$.2" idea that there i" no @(uild'u@ Go# re"on"e" to "ituation"H 4ithhi&. !.$. hi&"el# "ay" that there i" a 4i"h or de"ire in hi& only 4here he "ee"the &ean" to "ati"#y it. But the ue"tion i", ho4 can he Gor I in hi" laceH kno4that there are &ean" unle"" I ha/e a de"ire to "ati"#y in the #ir"t lace 7o4 i""uch a "ituation di##erent #ro& &y de"iring thing", and (eing #lei(le enough tochange the de"ire or let go o# it 4hen thing" don2t go &y 4ay

)H Again, !.$. call" hi" "tate a "tate o# unkno4ing. 7o4 can he hi&"el# &ake any"tate&ent" a(out it 4ithout kno4ing "o&ething a(out it !.$. 4ould "ay that hedoe" not kno4 it, (ut rather that he i" only "eaking con/entionally or

&etahorically, or that he i" &erely denying that hi" i" a "tate o# kno4ingE that i"4hy he &ake" "uch "tate&ent", not that he actually kno4" anything a(out it. r,he "ay" that 4ith hi& (oth kno4ing and not kno4ing occur in the "a&e #ra&e2.r "o&eti&e" he "ay" that it i" li#e ere""ing it"el# Gthrough thi" "ort o#languageH, and he doe" not kno4. And he ha" no de"ire to kno4 or &ake any"en"e out o# anything. 7e 4ould in #act clai& that it i" our urge to kno4, and&ake "en"e o# thing", that i" the ro(le&, (ecau"e it i" that that i" (uilding the"el#. 7e i" certain, a" #ar a" he i" concerned, that there i" nothing to kno4,nothing to under"tand. Ccet he can2t co&&unicate that certainty to u". Butho4 doe" he kno4 that he doe" not kno4 7o4 doe" he kno4 that hi" i" Gor4a"H not a "tate o# kno4ing

*H In our nor&al daily li#e &any acti/itie" 4e undertake are initiated in ourcon"ciou"ne"" (y the thought o# 4hat 4e ought to do or are going to do. +hen!.$. "ay" that the "ituation (ring" a(out the thought, doe" that &ean that he i"=u"t a /icti& o# the "ituation, and that "o a" #ar a" he i" concerned anything canhaen r, in hi& too, i" there a con"ciou"ne"" o# the "ituation, and adeli(eration a" to 4hat i" aroriate to it I# the latter i" the ca"e, then ho4 i" hedi##erent #ro& u"

# cour"e, it i" al"o true that 4e o#ten "ontaneou"ly re"ond to "ituation"

4ithout rior deli(eration or #orethought, e/en i# the re"on"e haen" to (e =u"t"aying "o&ething. +e don2t al4ay" think #ir"t and then act. I" !.$. the "a&eal4ay", i.e., "ontaneou"

-H r again, 4hen a thought occur", there i" al"o an acco&anying con"ciou"ne""o# our"el/e" 4ithin u", e/en i# it i" only &o&entary and not connected to are/iou" con"ciou"ne"" Gor eerience"H through &e&ory. I# a thought occur" in


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!.$.2" con"ciou"ne"" in a certain "ituation, ho4 can it not (ring a(out acon"ciou"ne"" o# hi&"el#, and hence an i&age o# hi&"el#, ho4e/er &o&entary it&ay (e !.$. &ight "ay that @there i" kno4ing and there i" not kno4ing in the"a&e #ra&eE@ (ut ho4 are 4e to under"tand that I# there i" that "el#'con"ciou"ne"" in hi&, then it "ee&" that the di##erence (et4een u" and !.$. i"

only a &atter o# degree, that degree G4hich "ee&" to (e greatH (eing deter&ined(y ho4 &uch 4e are a(le let go o# the a"t, or accet the re"ent. hen, couldn2t4e =u"t ractice thi" letting go or accetance either through &editation or "o&eother roce"" and there(y aroi&ate to !.$.2" condition I# it i" o""i(le, thi""ee&" to (e in direct contradiction to 4hat !.$.2" "ay" a(out ho4 there i"nothing 4e can do ' either thi" condition =u"t haen", or it doe"n2t. But again,4e don2t kno4 the #act" o# the &atter, (ecau"e 4e are not there.

0H Further, 4e ha/e no 4ay o# &aking "en"e o# !.$.2" a""ertion" that @it ne/eroccur" to &e that you are "earate or di##erent #ro& &e,@ #or in hi" "eech and in

hi" day'to'day dealing" he ha" to (e &aking tho"e di"tinction".

No4, I a& a4are, a#ter I rai"e the a(o/e "ort o# di##icultie" 4ith !.$.2" teaching",that the ro(le&" &ay not (e 4ith !.$. or hi" teaching". he ro(le& &ay (ethat I a& trying to under"tand 4hat i" to &e unkno4n #ro& &y o4n oint o#/ie4, and erha" there i" no 4ay I can do that unle"" and until I gi/e it u? Allthe"e di##icultie" &ay "i&ly di"aear in the #ace o# the reality o# !.$., and hi"actual li/ing, i# it haen" to (e other4i"e. So&eho4 it &ay all #it2. +e =u"t don2tkno4 ho4. hu" 4e can neither ro/e nor di"ro/e Gnor can !.$.H !.$.2"teaching". +e are not in any o"ition to con#ir& or deny 4hat he "ay". C/en thelanguage he "eak" lea/e" u" (a##led. here i" nothing in our (ackground or&ental eui&ent to relate to it. So&eti&e you e/en 4onder i# you are "eakingthe "a&e language. C/en the /ery o""i(ility o# any co&&unication i" inue"tion.

A ne4 dialectic (uild" u in thi" contet3 the reader or li"tener a"k" #or coherencein and elanation o# !.$.2" "tate&ent", and !.$. retort" that the urge to kno4,to "eek elanation" or coherence G#ro& hi&H i" ho4 thought i" (uilding the "el#.hi" i" ho4, he 4ould "ay, the intellect i" "trengthening it"el#. And he 4ould addthat the intellect i" the only in"tru&ent o# under"tanding, and there i" no otherin"tru&ent. Further&ore, another art o# !.$.2" certainty2 i" that there i" really

nothing to under"tand? o the "eeker the concern a(out the "el# "ee&" irrele/antE(ut !.$. &aintain" that it i" the "eeker2" &ain intere"t. 7e "ay" there are nodi"intere"ted ur"uit". In thi" contro/er"y, I er"onally agree 4ith !.$. o"ition.7o4 can I not do "o, i# I under"tand and "ee the analy"i" he re"ent" o# hu&anro(le&"


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urning to the "u(=ect o# !.$.2" er"on and hi" li/ing, thing" are =u"t a"a&(iguou"3 it i" not clear to 4hat etent hi" li/ing re#lect" hi" teaching". Again,here too, the urge to /eri#y, to &ake "en"e out o# hi" li#e, i", a" !.$. 4ould ointout, ere""i/e o# our concern #or the "el#. !.$.2" li/ing, =u"t a" hi" "tate&ent",doe" not #it any #ied attern. n the one hand, he "ee&" to (e li/ing in a

di"continuou" "tate o# con"ciou"ne"", 4here 4hat haen" one &o&ent i"di"connected, or di"=ointed2 a" !.$. hi&"el# 4ould ut it, #ro& the netE on theother hand, he can not only re&e&(er an in#inite nu&(er o# detail" o# hi" o4na"t Gand endle""ly talk a(out the&H, (ut al"o i" a(le to lan hi" tri" or &eeting"4ith eole, 4hich all "ee&" to indicate a roce"" o# "tringing /ariou" e/ent""euentially in a "ingle con"ciou"ne"". hi" i", a" #ar a" 4e kno4, indicati/e o#the roce"" o# "el#'&aking.

hi" "a&e arado i" al"o e/ident in at lea"t "o&e o# the dialogue" included inthi" (ook. n the one hand, the con/er"ation" roceed in a #ree'a""ociation "tyle,

a" !.$. goe" #ro& one toic to another and an"4er" ue"tion" 4ithout any ruleor rhy&e, "o&eti&e" 4ithout directly an"4ering the ue"tion" o"ed to hi&.7o4e/er thi" &ay aear, the &ain the&e" o# !.$.2" teaching" "ee& to co&e outo# the con/er"ation" any4ay, although it 4ould aear to the li"tener that !.$. i"&ore intere"ted in trying to grind hi" ae2 rather than an"4ering the ue"tion".n the other hand, !.$. i" uite caa(le o# a "u"tained con/er"ation on a "ingletoic, a" can (e e/idenced in hi" inter/ie4 4ith a "cienti"t in :hater 1< o# thi"(ook. 7e can go in deth and #ocu" on a ro(le& and (ring it to a conclu"ion,u"ually (y cornering hi" li"tener in "o&e #a"hion on other G(y &aking re&ark""uch a", in the a(o/e ea&le, @+hat 4ill you do, Sir@H.

!.$.2" er"onal li#e i" uite ca"ual and in#or&al. here i" u"ually a arty'likeat&o"here around hi&. +here/er one "ee" hi&, he i" generally "urrounded (yone or &ore o# hi" #riend" 4ho& he con"tantly =oke" 4ith and tea"e" and 4ho inturn do the "a&e to hi&. +hen a "tranger 4alk" in, !.$. in"tantly cut" out all the=ocularity, (eco&e" "eriou" and "it" uietly, and 4ait" #or the /i"itor to "tarttalking, a#ter a #e4 courte"ie". ;retty "oon, the /i"itor i" dragged into the net4orko# !.$.2" thought. It i" /ery hard to e"cae the e##ect" o# !.$.2" con/er"ation".ou &ay end u =oking around 4ith hi&, or you &ay get u"et 4ith the re"ultthat (oth you and !.$. yell (ack and #orth at each other, or you can2t "tand itany&ore and lea/e the "cene? here i" no "et attern a" to ho4 a /i"itor 4ould

react to !.$. # cour"e, there are al"o tho"e 4ho think that !.$. and hi"teaching" are hony.

But you do kno4 that 4hen you talk to !.$. your /ery ei"tence i" in ue"tion.hat i" ro(a(ly the rea"on 4hy "o&e eole #eel uite threatened in !.$.2"re"ence. !.$. not only eo"e" all "ort" o# hidden &oti/ation" in 4hat you ha/e"aid, (ut he al"o negate" &o"t o# 4hat eole "ay, there(y trying to di"lodge


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their (elie# "tructure, u"ing 4hate/er &ean" he ha" at hi" di"o"al. 7e kno4"that all (elie#" are relati/e, and u"e" the relati/ity o# (elie# to co&(at (elie#. Inother 4ord", he u"e" one (elie# to counter another (elie#, and then in anothercontet he u"e" the "econd (elie# to counter the #ir"t. 7e doe" not hold to rule" o#con"i"tency. Nothing i" "o "acro"anct #or hi& that it ha" to (e rotected at all

co"t"?

!.$.2" er"onal relation"hi" Gi# that2" 4hat one can call the&H are no ecetion tothe a(o/e rule Gor rather the a("ence o# it.H So&eti&e" he 4ould "ee& toer"onally 4ant to "ee you and 4ould "ee& to care #or you. G7o4 &any ti&e"one ha"n2t heard the re&ark #ro& di##erent eole that no one cared #or the& a"&uch a" !.$. didH 7e &ay call you or co&e to "ee youE he chat" or =oke" 4ithyou, eat" 4ith you, and "o on. et, it look" like a#ter he lea/e", he rarely think"a(out you again, Gecet 4hen eole talk a(out you, or in con/er"ation, he4ould re&e&(er youH. n the one "ide, he "ee&" not to care ho4 you li/e,

4ho& you "ee, and "o on, yet, on the other "ide, you 4ill #ind hi& &eddling4ith eole2" li/e", tea"ing the& and attacking the&.

7o4 doe" !.$. the er"on tally 4ith !.$.2" teaching"E doe" he li/e u to the cour"e, it2" not a ro(le& #or !.$. ou ne/er hear hi& co&laining a(out hi"li#e. Ghat2" #or "ure.H 7e "ay" that the thought ne/er occur" to hi& that he "hould(e in a di##erent "tate than the "tate he i" in. +hen he i" "ick, he doe" notco&lain. Again, on the other hand, there are ecetion" to thi". Although hedoe" not nor&ally go to a doctor on hi" o4n, he doe" con"ult doctor", G&ay(eonly (ecau"e there i" a doctor on handH to #ind out 4hat they ha/e to "ay a(outhi" condition. Not that he carrie" out their ad/ice. !.$. "ay" he doe" not ha/e toli/e u to anyone2" i&age o# hi& Gincluding the i&age o# an enlightened &anH.

Many ti&e" he gi/e" you the i&re""ion he i" the &o"t di"intere"ted &an in the4orld. 7e doe" not 4i"h to change or con/ert anyone. hen 4hy i" he "oconcerned a(out "o&e teacher" like J. %ri"hna&urti +hy doe" he in/ol/ehi&"el# in contro/er"ie", or ut do4n @e/eryone and e/erything@ # cour"e, he4ould "ay that he i" only re"onding to you, co&ing to hi& and a"king hi& allthe"e ue"tion". 7e (y hi&"el# ha" no de"ire to "ay anything. ou cannot (utthink o# attri(uting /ariou" &oti/e" to hi&, "uch a" "eeking oularity, trying to"ucceed in co&etition, and "o #orth. At the "a&e ti&e, 4hen you look at a

icture o# hi& looking at you, tho"e eye" #ull o# lo/e, all your dou(t" andue"tion" di"aear. 7o4 doe" one deal 4ith a er"on like !.$.

All thi" ulti&ately (oil" do4n to an a&(i/alence 4hich in #act hide" a#unda&ental contradiction in the reader or li"tener Gthe re"ent 4riter includingH3ou can2t take !.$., #or you don2t kno4 ho4 to take hi&E #or, a" !.$. 4ould utit, i# you really under"tand 4hat he "ay" you 4ould in"tantly dro dead, that


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4ould &ean clinical death2 Gto your "el#, at any rateHE and that you cannot a##ord.And you can2t lea/e hi& alone, (ecau"e all your thinking 4ill e/entually (ringhi& into the icture, (ecau"e he and hi" teaching rere"ent the li&it" or end o#"eeking.

Since 4e cannot truly under"tand2 and accet 4hat he "ay", 4e end u 4ith the#ollo4ing contradiction in"tead. Ina"&uch a" !.$. rere"ent" the end o# "eeking,4e 4ould like to &ake hi& and hi" teaching the o(=ect o# our intere"t. But theonly 4ay 4e can relate to hi& and hi" teaching i" in a "el#'centered #a"hion,trying to o""e"" hi& G4i"h you luck in that?H, atroni>ing hi&, (ragging a(outhi& and hi" teaching, trying to get hi" aro/al and con#ir&ation o# 4hat 4e "ayor 4rite or do, and "o on. I# that doe" not 4ork, 4e go to the oo"ite etre&e o#trying to (e indeendent o# hi&, critici>ing hi&, attacking hi&, and "o #orth.Both "ide" o# thi" a&(i/alence are &o/e&ent" o# our o4n thought. Bothrere"ent 4ay" o# gra"ing "o&ething, o# "eeking. +e are trying to get

"o&e4here, to change our"el/e" into "o&ething 4e are not. +hen 4e are #ree#ro& the "eeking, then !.$. and hi" teaching" do not &atter. hen 4e can drothe&. ;erha" later in another contet 4e 4ill talk to hi& or to "o&eone el"ea(out hi& or hi" teaching", and then 4e 4ill think a(out hi& and hi" teaching"again. hen 4e &ay #all headlong into a attern o# a&(i/alence again, notreali>ing until later that 4e ha/e. hen 4e &ay dro hi& again. I# that @#allingand ri"ing@ o# our concern 4ith !.$. doe"n2t &atter, then it doe" not &atter i# 4eour"el/e" are related to !.$. or not, and then it doe" not &atter 4hether !.$.2"teaching" are true or not. ou &erely return to your nor&al daily routine,4hate/er it con"i"t" o#. he routine &ay include the &o/e&ent (ack and #orth,

"ay, o# (eing concerned and not "o concerned 4ith !.$. and hi" teaching", =u"ta", 4hen 4e are not con"ciou" o# our"el/e", there &ay (e a &o/e&ent (ack and#orth (et4een (eing in/ol/ed in thing" and (eing (ored. +hen 4e (eco&econ"ciou" o# our"el/e", 4e &ay let e/erything Ge/en our concern #or our#ul#ill&ent or #reedo&H go, or accet our condition, or &erely return to there"ent &o&ent, 4hich i" one and the "a&e thing. hi" indeed i" our @condition@and a" #ar a" 4e kno4 there &ay no e"cae #ro& it. But then i# 4e are con"ciou"o# all thi", 4e reali>e that thi" too i" (orn o# the need to (eco&e #ree and 4hen 4elet that need go, 4e return to our nor&al routine, at lea"t #or the &o&ent. hena" !.$. 4ould "ay, @ou can =u"t a" 4ell take a 4alk.@ And there i" nothing &oreto "ay....

A &a=or ortion o# thi" 4ork con"i"t" o# /ariou" recorded dialogue" (et4een!.$. and di##erent indi/idual". he #ir"t chater i" an e""ay 4ritten (y Dr. .R.Raghunath to re"ent and critically e/aluate !.$.2" thought. he la"t chater i"an account 4ritten (y an anony&ou" lady in 4hich "he relate" her rather


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dra&atic encounter 4ith !.$. +e thought that thi" 4ould gi/e the reader at lea"tone ea&le o# the &any o""i(le i&re""ion" !.$. &ight lea/e 4ith hi"audience. he dialogue" are tran"cri(ed and &ini&ally edited to en"urereada(ility. +here 4e thought it &ight (e hel#ul to &ake a""age" &oreintelligi(le, 4e ha/e "ulied "o&e &i""ing link" in "uare (racket", a" #or

ea&le, a noun #or a ronoun 4ho"e re#erence i" not clear, or an elanation o#4hat !.$. in a gi/en contet i" either re#erring or ointing to.

hank" to +endy Moorty #or her hel in reading the &anu"crit and "ugge"tinginnu&era(le correction" and change".

J.S.R.L.Narayana MoortySea"ide, :ali#ornia, !.S.A.Augu"t 19, 1991

4ha7ter +

7C !NRAINAL ;7ILS;7 F!.$.%RIS7NAM!RI

Dr..R.RaghunathDeart&ent o# ;hilo"ohyMcMa"ter !ni/er"ity:anada

I am not anti#rational $ust unrational. You may infer a rational meaning

in what I say or do but it is your doing not mine.

!!U.G.


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%wa#i Without a &obe

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i"your

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your$odLo/eyour(eing

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"el#a"you&eltintoall.

!.$.%ri"hna&urti i" 4ell'kno4n in "iritual circle" a" an ano&alou", enig&atic,

and iconocla"tic #igure. 7e ha" (een /ariou"ly and atly de"cri(ed a" the @!n'$uru@, a" the @Raging Sage@, and al"o a" the @Don Rickle" o# the $uru Set@. he&an i" a 4alking Rudra 4ho hurl" /er(al &i""ile" into the /ery heart o# theguarded citadel" o# hu&an culture. 7e "are" no tradition ho4e/er ancient, noin"titution ho4e/er e"ta(li"hed, and no ractice ho4e/er "ancti&oniou". Ne/erha/e the #oundation" o# hu&an ci/ili>ation (een "u(=ected to "uch de/a"tatingcritici"& a" (y thi" "e/enty'three year old &an called !.$.


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!nlike J. %ri"hna&urti, !.$. doe" not gi/e @talk"@ to the general u(lic, or@inter/ie4"@ to I;2S. 7e kee" no =ournal" or note(ook" and &ake" no@co&&entarie"@ on li/ing. here i" an unu"ual (ut authentic at&o"here o#in#or&ality around !.$. ou don2t ha/e to (eg the #a/or o# "o&e o&ou"@de/otee@ or @4orker@ to &eet hi& and talk 4ith hi&. !.$.2" door", 4here/er he

haen" to (e, are al4ay" oen to /i"itor". In "triking contra"t to &o"tconte&orary guru", !.$. doe" not aear to di"cri&inate (et4een hi" /i"itor"on ground" o# 4ealth, o"ition, ca"te, race, religion, or nationality.

Although he i" 6*, he continue" to tra/el around the 4orld in re"on"e toin/itation" #ro& hi" #riend". 7i" @&igratory@ &o/e&ent" o/er the glo(e ha/eearned hi& a rather de/oted circle o# #riend" in &any art" o# the 4orldincluding :hina Gone o# the /ery #e4 countrie" he ha" not /i"itedH, 4heretran"lation" o# hi" (e"t'"eller, he My"tiue o# Cnlighten&ent, #ir"t u(li"hed in198), are in circulation. A "econd (ook, Mind i" a Myth, u(li"hed in 1988, i" al"o

/ery oular 4ith an audience di"enchanted 4ith the $uru "et. A third (ook,hought i" our Cne&y, ha" (een u(li"hed recently. he"e (ook" contain editedtran"crition" o# con/er"ation" nu&erou" eole ha/e had 4ith !.$. all o/er the4orld. It i" "triking that !.$. doe" not clai& coyright o/er the"e (ook". 7e goe""o #ar a" to declare that @ou are #ree to reroduce, di"tri(ute, interret,&i"interret, di"tort, gar(le, do 4hat you like, e/en clai& author"hi 4ithout &ycon"ent or the er&i""ion o# any(ody.@ I dou(t i# thi" ha" any recedent inhi"tory. !.$.2" 4ay" are like nature2" 4ay". Nature doe" not clai& coyright o/erit" creation". Neither doe" !.$.

!.$. doe" not clai& to ha/e any @"iritual teaching".@ 7e ha" ointed out that a"iritual teaching re"uo"e" the o""i(ility o# a change or tran"#or&ation inindi/idual", and o##er" techniue" or &ethod" #or (ringing it a(out. @But I do notha/e any "uch teaching (ecau"e I ue"tion the /ery idea o# tran"#or&ation. I&aintain that there i" nothing to (e tran"#or&ed or changed in you. So, naturally,I do not ha/e any ar"enal o# &editati/e techniue" or ractice",@ he a""ert".Although there &ay (e no @"iritual teaching@, in the con/entional "en"e, it"ee&" uite undenia(le that there i" a @hilo"ohy@ in hi" e/er'gro4ing coru" o#utterance", a @hilo"ohy@ 4hich re"i"t" a""i&ilation into e"ta(li"hedhilo"ohical tradition", Ca"tern or +e"tern, and one 4hich i" certainly 4orthea&ining. !.$. i" i&ortant enough not to (e le#t to J. %ri"hna&urti2" @4ido4"@

and Bhag4an Ra=nee"h2" #or&er @di/orc"@ Gto u"e !.$.2" ter&"H? 7e de"er/e"critical attention #ro& the hilo"ohical co&&unity, articularly in India, 4herethe tradition" o# all the dead generation" 4eigh like a night&are on the (rain" o#the li/ing.

he ter& @unrational@ (e"t de"cri(e" the te&er o# !.$.2" hilo"ohicalaroach. 7e i" not intere"ted in o##ering "olution" to ro(le&". 7i" concern i" to


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oint out that the "olution i" the ro(le&? A" he o#ten o("er/e", @he ue"tion"are (orn out o# the an"4er" that 4e already ha/e.@ he "ource o# the ue"tion" i"the an"4er" 4e ha/e icked u #ro& our tradition. And tho"e an"4er" are notgenuine an"4er". I# the an"4er" 4ere genuine, the ue"tion" 4ould not er"i"t inan un&odi#ied or &odi#ied #or&. But the ue"tion" er"i"t. De"ite all the

an"4er" in our tradition 4e are "till a"king ue"tion" a(out $od, the &eaning o#li#e, and "o on. here#ore, !.$. &aintain", the an"4er" are the ro(le&. he realan"4er, i# there i" one, con"i"t" in the di""olution o# (oth the an"4er" and theue"tion" inherited #ro& tradition.

!.$.2" aroach i" al"o @unrational@ in another "en"e. 7e doe" not u"e logicalargu&ent" to deal 4ith ue"tion". 7e e&loy" 4hat I call the &ethod o#re"olution o# the ue"tion into it" con"tituti/e "ychological de&and". 7e then"ho4" that thi" "ychological de&and i" 4ithout a #oundation. :on"ider, #orea&le, the ue"tion o# $od. !.$. i" not intere"ted in logical argu&ent" #or or

again"t $od. +hat he doe" i" to re"ol/e the ue"tion into it" underlyingcon"tituti/e de&and #or er&anent lea"ure or haine"". !.$. no4 oint" outthat thi" de&and #or er&anent haine"" i" 4ithout #oundation (ecau"e there i"no er&anence. Further, the "ychological de&and #or er&anent haine"" ha"no hy"iological #oundation in the "en"e that the (ody cannot handleer&anence. A" !.$. ut" it3

%od or Enlightenment is the ultimate pleasure uninterrupted happiness.&o such thing eists. Your wanting something that does not eist is theroot of your problem. (ransformation mo!sha and all that stuff are $ustvariations of the same theme: permanent happiness. (he body can't ta!euninterrupted pleasure for long) it would be destroyed. *anting afictitious permanent state of happiness is actually a serious neurologicalproblem.

he ro(le& o# death 4ould (e another ea&le. !.$. (ru"he" a"ide"eculation" a(out the @"oul@ and @a#ter'li#e@. 7e &aintain" that there i" nothingin"ide o# u" that 4ill reincarnate a#ter death. @here i" nothing in"ide o# you (ut#ear,@ he "ay". 7i" concern i" to oint out that the de&and #or the continuity o#

the @eeriencer@ 4hich underlie" ue"tion" a(out death ha" no (a"i". In hi"4ord"3

Your eperiencing structure cannot conceive of any event that it will noteperience. It even epects to preside over its own dissolution and so itwonders what death will feel li!e it tries to pro$ect the feeling of what it


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will be li!e not to feel. +ut in order to anticipate a future eperience yourstructure needs !nowledge a similar past eperience it can call upon forreference. You cannot remember what it felt li!e not to eist before youwere born and you cannot remember your own birth so you have no basisfor pro$ecting your future non#eistence.

!.$. al"o reudiate" &any o# the a""u&tion" o# the hilo"oher" o# Rea"on. 7eha" Ari"totle in &ind 4hen he declare" that @+hoe/er "aid that &an 4a" arational (eing deluded hi&"el# and deluded u" all.@ !.$. &aintain" that thedri/ing #orce o# hu&an action i" o4er and not rationality. In #act he hold" thatrationality i" it"el# an in"tru&ent o# o4er. he rationali"t aroach i" (a"ed on#aith in the a(ility o# thought to tran"#or& the hu&an condition. !.$. contend"that thi" #aith in thought i" &i"laced. According to hi&, thought i" a di/i"i/eand ulti&ately a de"tructi/e in"tru&ent. It i" only intere"ted in it" o4n continuityand turn" e/erything into a &ean" o# it" o4n eretuation. It can only #unction

in ter&" o# a di/i"ion (et4een the "o'called "el# or ego and the 4orld. And thi"di/i"ion (et4een an illu"ory "el# and an oo"ed 4orld i" ulti&ately de"tructi/e(ecau"e it re"ult" in the aggrandi>e&ent o# the @"el#@ at the een"e o# e/erythingel"e. hat i" 4hy e/erything (orn o# thought i" harul in one 4ay or another.So thought i" not the in"tru&ent 4hich can tran"#or& our condition. But neitherdoe" !.$. oint to "o&e "iritual #aculty "uch a" intuition or #aith a" the "a/ingin"tru&ent. 7e di"&i""e" intuition a" nothing &ore than a #or& o# "u(tle andre#ined thought. A" #or #aith, it i" =u"t a #or& o# hoe 4ithout any #oundation.

But !.$. doe" "eak o# "o&ething like a nati/e or natural intelligence o# theli/ing organi"&. he acuired @intelligence@ o# the intellect i" no &atch to thenati/e intelligence o# the (ody. It i" thi" intelligence 4hich i" oerati/e in theetraordinarily co&le "y"te&" o# the (ody. ne ha" only to ea&ine thei&&une "y"te& to co&rehend the nature o# thi" innate intelligence o# the li/ing(ody. !.$. &aintain" that thi" nati/e intelligence o# the (ody i" unrelated to theintellect. here#ore it cannot (e u"ed or directed to "ol/e the ro(le&" created (ythought. It i" not intere"ted in the &achination" o# thought.

hought i" the ene&y o# thi" innate intelligence o# the (ody. hought i" ini&icalto the har&oniou" #unctioning o# the (ody (ecau"e it turn" e/erything into a&o/e&ent o# lea"ure. hi" i" the 4ay it en"ure" it" o4n continuity. he ur"uit

o# er&anence i" al"o another 4ay in 4hich thought (eco&e" ini&ical to thehar&oniou" #unctioning o# the (ody. According to !.$., the de&and #or lea"ureand er&anence de"troy", in the long run, the "en"iti/ity o# the (ody. he (odyi" not intere"ted in er&anence. It" ner/ou" "y"te& cannot handle er&anent"tate", lea"ura(le or ain#ul. But thought ha" ro=ected the ei"tence o#er&anent "tate" o# eace, (li"", or ec"ta"y in order to &aintain it" continuity.


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here i" thu" a #unda&ental con#lict (et4een the de&and" o# the @&ind@ orthought and the #unctioning o# the (ody.

hi" con#lict (et4een thought and the (ody cannot (e re"ol/ed (y thought. Anyatte&t (y thought to deal 4ith thi" con#lict only aggra/ate" the ro(le&. +hat

&u"t co&e to an end i" the di"torting inter#erence o# the "el#'eretuating&echani"& o# thought. And thi" cannot, o(/iou"ly, (e achie/ed (y that /ery&echani"&. !.$. &aintain" that all techniue" and ractice" to end or controlthought are #utile (ecau"e they are the&"el/e" the roduct" o# thought and the&ean" o# it" eretuation.

he rationali"t aroach i" al"o co&&itted to the concet o# cau"ality. !.$.re=ect" cau"ality a" a "hi((oleth. 7e &aintain" that e/ent" are actuallydi"connected, and it i" thought 4hich connect" the& (y &ean" o# the concet o#cau"ality. But there i" no 4ay o# kno4ing 4hether there are actually cau"al

relation"hi" in nature. hi" lead" hi& to re=ect not only the notion o# a creator o#the uni/er"e, (ut al"o the hyothe"i" o# a Big Bang. 7e &aintain" that theuni/er"e ha" no cau"e, no (eginning, and no end.

here "ee&" to (e "o&e "i&ilarity 4ith the Buddhi"t aroach on thi" i""ue. heBuddhi"t" al"o re=ected the notion that the 4orld had a (eginning. But they "till"u("cri(ed to the /ie4 that all heno&ena had cau"e". !.$., (y contra"t, re=ect"thi" /ie4. 7e ha" no ro(le&" 4ith the idea o# acau"al heno&ena. # cour"e,!.$. i" not a Buddhi"t. 7e re=ect" the #our no(le truth", the eight'#old ath, thegoal o# Nir/ana, and the &ethod" o# Buddhi"t &editation. 7e e/en con"ider" theBuddha a" a #ooli"h &an (ecau"e he en=oined hi" #ollo4er" to roagate the@,hamma@ to the #our corner" o# the earth. he &i"chie# o# the &i""ionarie" thu"originated 4ith the @Mindle"" ne@?

!.$. al"o argue" that there i" no entity called @"el#@ indeendent o# the thoughtroce"". here i" no thinker, (ut only thinking. +e think that there &u"t (e a@thinker@, an entity that i" thinking, (ut 4e ha/e no 4ay o# kno4ing thi". here i"only a &o/e&ent o# thought. !.$. doe" not ackno4ledge a "har di"tinction(et4een #eeling or e&otion and thought. C/en ercetion and "en"ation areer&eated (y thought. 7i" u"e o# the hra"e @&o/e&ent o# thought@ i" thu" uiteeten"i/e in it" &eaning. !.$. accord" a central role to &e&ory, 4hich

condition" the &o/e&ent o# thought. In #act, he &aintain" that thought i" a&o/e&ent o# &e&ory. 7e al"o ha" no lace #or an indeendent con"ciou"ne"",or the @vi$nanas!andha@ o# the Buddhi"t".

In a &a"terly "troke o# negati/e dialectic, !.$. oint" out that there i" nothinglike o("er/ation or under"tanding o# thought (ecau"e there i" no "u(=ect oro("er/er indeendent o# it. he di/i"ion (et4een thought and an indeendent


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"u(=ect or o("er/er i" an illu"ion created (y that /ery thought. +hat 4e ha/e i"=u"t another roce"" o# thought a(out @thought@. !.$. there#ore di"&i""e" all talko# o("er/ation, or a4arene"", o# one2" o4n thought roce"" a" a("olute(alderda"h? 7e thu" take" a4ay the /ery #loor #ro& (eneath tho"e 4ho racticeia""ana &editation?

In !.$.2" ontology there are no entitie" like @&ind@, @"oul@, @"yche@, and @"el#@.@he I2 ha" no other "tatu" than the gra&&atical,@ in"i"t" !.$. It i" =u"t a #ir"t'er"on "ingular ronoun, a con/ention and con/enience o# "eech. @heue"tion, +ho a& I2 i" an idiotic ue"tion,@ re&ark" !.$. aroo" Ra&anaMahar"hi2" &ethod o# "el#'inuiry. It i" 4orth noting here that !.$. had /i"itedRa&ana in 19*9 or "o. o the young !.$.2" uery, @:an you gi/e enlighten&entto &e@, the "age o# Arunachala relied, @I can gi/e it, (ut can you take it@ !.$.,#ull o# youth#ul "el#'a""urance, "aid to hi&"el#, @I# there i" anyone 4ho can take it,it i" I,@ and 4alked out? 7e "ay" that Ra&ana2" an"4er 4a" a traditional one and

did not i&re"" hi&. n the contrary, he 4a" ut o## (y 4hat he de"cri(e" a" theMahar"hi2" @un(linking arrogance@? !.$. ne/er /i"ited hi& again. Regarding theMahar"hi2" terri(ly ain#ul death (y cancer, !.$. curtly o("er/e" that @cancertreat" "aint" and "inner" in the "a&e 4ay.@ hi" "ee&" to (e true, (ut theintere"ting ue"tion i" 4hether "aint" and "inner" treat cancer in the "a&e 4ay.

According to !.$., the ue"tion, @+ho a& I@ re"uo"e" the ei"tence o# "o&eunkno4n @I@ other than the @I@ 4hich 4a" (orn in "o&e lace to "o&e arent", i"&arried or un&arried, and 4hich ha" icked u thi" ue"tion #ro& "o&e (ook.!.$. denie" that thi" a""u&tion &ake" "en"e. here i" an uncea"ing (ut e/er'changing roce"" o# thought. he "o'called @I@ i" (orn ane4 each &o&ent 4iththe (irth o# each thought. he notion o# an enduring or er&anent "yche or "el#i" &erely a concet thro4n u (y thought. !.$., there#ore, a""ert" that "iritualand "ychological goal" ha/e really no (a"i" or #oundation. +hat i" it that attain"the "o'called enlighten&ent +hat i" it that reali>e" or tran"#or&" it"el# +hat i"it that attain" haine"" @A("olutely nothing?@ i" !.$.2" rely. he"e goal" ha/e(een ro=ected (y thought to kee it"el# going. hat2" all there i" to it.

!.$. clai&" that thi" "el#'eretuating roce"" o# thought can co&e to an end.7o4e/er, he oint" out that thi" doe" not i&ly a "tate totally (ere#t o# thought".According to hi&, the ideal o# a thoughtle"" "tate i" one o# the &any hoae" to

4hich 7indu" ha/e #allen /icti&. 7e clai&" that 4hen the "el#'eretuating&echani"& o# thought colla"e", 4hat i" le#t i" a har&oniou" &ode o##unctioning o# the li/ing organi"& in 4hich thought" ari"e and di"aear inaccordance 4ith a natural rhyth& and in re"on"e to a challenge. hu" thero(le& i" thought a" a "el#'eretuating roce"" and not the occurrence o#thought" er "e. In the @natural "tate@, a" !.$. de"cri(e", the "tate o# #unctioningo# the (ody #ree o# the inter#erence o# thought, thought" are not a ro(le&. It i"


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not that there are no "en"ual thought", #or ea&le, in thi" "tate. But they do notcon"titute a ro(le&. ne i" not concerned a(out 4hether the thought" are@good@ or @(ad@, or a(out 4hether they occur at all. !.$. "ay", @ou &ay a"k,7o4 can "uch a &an ha/e a "en"ual thought2 here i" nothing he can do to"ure"" that thought, or to gi/e roo& #or that thought to act. he thought

cannot "tayE there i" no continuity, no (uild'u. ne kno4" 4hat it i" and there itend". hen "o&ething el"e co&e" u@.

he death o# thought a" a "el#'eretuating &echani"& in/ol/ed, in !.$.2" ca"e,al"o the @death@ o# the (ody. ne 4onder" i# it 4a" "o&e "ort o# a "tate o#"a&adhi or trance o# the (ody. Siritual hi"tory in India #urni"he" u" 4ithea&le" o# &y"tic" 4ho under4ent thi" "a&adhi o# the (ody. Ra&akri"hnau"ed to go into a "tate o#ten acco&anied (y a total ce""ation o# (reathing andheart(eat. It i" recorded that hi" er"onal hy"ician, Dr.Sarkar, 4a" (a##led (y theheno&enon. Another "triking ca"e i" that o# Ra&ana Mahar"hi. Ra&ana

under4ent a @death eerience@ 4hen he 4a" "e/enteen year" old. he@eerience@ cul&inated, on hi" account, in the reali>ation o# the At&an.Ra&alinga&, a nineteenth century a&il &y"tic, al"o aear" to ha/e gonethrough thi" samadhio# the (ody. he @death@ and the "u("euent rene4al o# the(ody that thi" @"a&adhi@ in/ol/e" could ha/e (een the (a"i" o# hi" a"toni"hingclai& that he had o/erco&e (odily death. he "aint ukara& in one o# hi" "ong"al"o clai&" that he 4itne""ed hi" o4n death through the grace o# hi" deity. hu"there are "o&e "ort o# recedent" to !.$.2" @cala&ity@, a" he de"cri(e" 4hathaened to hi&, in the annal" o# India2" "iritual hi"tory. hi" i" not to denythat !.$.2" @cala&ity@ i" a uniue heno&enon.

!.$. clai&" that in hi" ca"e the (ody under4ent @actual clinical death@. 7e "ay",@It 4a" hy"ical death. +hat (rought &e (ack to li#e, I don2t kno4. I can2t "ayanything a(out that (ecau"e the eeriencer 4a" #ini"hed@. hi" haened in1956 in S4it>erland "oon a#ter hi" reali>ation that hi" "earch #or enlighten&ent4a" the /ery thing that 4a" keeing hi& #ro& hi" natural "tate. hi" hit hi& likea (olt o# lightning and led to the colla"e o# thought a" a "el#'eretuatingroce"". 7e then under4ent a "erie" o# change" in the #unctioning o# hi" (ody #or"i day". n the "e/enth day he died. +hen he ca&e (ack he 4a" like a child andhad to relearn all the 4ord" nece""ary #or #unctioning in the 4orld.

!.$. "tri" the heno&enon o# all religiou" or &y"tical content. 7e i" e&haticthat it 4a" "i&ly a hy"iological heno&enon. 7e al"o in"i"t" that it i" anacau"al heno&enon. No "iritual or hy"ical techniue can (ring it a(out. !.$.i" #ond o# reiterating that it haened to hi& de"ite all the sadhanasor "iritualractice" he had done. I recall that 4hen I a"ked hi& ho4 he could (e "ure that ithad not haened (ecau"e o# hi" sadhanas, he relied that he di"co/ered it 4a""o&ething totally unrelated to the ro=ected goal" o# tho"e "iritual ractice".


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!.$. di"co/ered that the "tate he had @"tu&(led into@ had nothing to do 4ith(li"", (eatitude, thoughtle"" "ilence, o&ni"cience, o&niotence etc. Rather, it 4a"a (e4ildering hy"ical "tate 4ith all the "en"e" #unctioning indeendently o#each other at the eak o# their caacity, "ince they 4ere #ree o# the di"tortinginter#erence o# the "earati/e thought roce"". 7e did not attain o&ni"cience. It

4a" a "tate o# unkno4ing, a "tate in 4hich the de&and to kno4 had co&e to anend. here 4a" no (li"" or ec"ta"y. It 4a" a "tate 4hich in/ol/ed tre&endou"hy"ical ten"ion and ain 4hene/er there 4ere @out(ur"t" o# energy@ in the (odya" a con"euence o# the colla"e o# the "el#'eretuating &echani"& o# thought.And it 4a" not "o&e dead, inert "tate o# @"ilence o# &ind@, (ut the "ilence o# a/olcanic erution, regnant 4ith the e""ence o# all energy.

7e al"o di"co/ered that it could not (e "hared 4ith other". Sharing re"uo"e"that there i" a di/i"ion (et4een the "el# and other" and the kno4ledge that oneha" "o&ething to gi/e to other". But #or !.$. there i" no di/i"ion (et4een the

@"el#@ and the @other@ in that condition. It ne/er occur" to hi& that he i" no4 anenlightened &an and that other" are not. It ne/er occur" to hi& that he ha""o&ething that other" do not ha/e. So he di"co/ered that there 4a" actuallynothing to gi/e or i&art to other".

!.$., there#ore, ue"tion" the legiti&acy o# the idea o# the guru, or "iritualauthority, 4hich i" central to the Indian "iritual tradition. 7e argue" that i# aer"on get" into thi" condition, he cannot "et hi&"el# u a" an authority (ecau"ehe ha" no 4ay o# co&aring hi" condition 4ith the condition o# other". Since iti&lie" the a("ence o# an indeendent eeriencer, it i" not "o&ething that can(e tran"&itted (y "o&eone to other". here#ore, !.$. &aintain" that there i"really no (a"i" #or the idea that enlighten&ent or &ok"ha can (e attained (ycontact 4ith an enlightened guru or teacher.

here i" al"o another intere"ting rea"on #or hi" reudiation o# "iritual authority.7e &aintain" that each indi/idual i" uniue. here#ore, e/en i# there i""o&ething like enlighten&ent, it 4ill (e uniue #or each indi/idual. here i" nouni/er"al attern or &odel o# enlighten&ent that all indi/idual" &u"t #it into.C/ery ti&e it haen" it i" uniue. hu" the atte&t to i&itate "o&eone el"e2"@"iritual reali>ation@, 4hich i" the #oundation o# all "iritual ractice", i"#unda&entally &i"taken. hi" i" al"o true o# any atte&t to &ake one2" o4n

@"iritual reali>ation@ into a &odel #or other". hi" i" the rea"on 4hy !.$. i"critical o# &o"t o# the "iritual teacher" in hi"tory. hey atte&ted to &ake 4hathaened to the& a &odel #or other". It "i&ly cannot (e done. I#@enlighten&ent@ i" uniue #or e/ery indi/idual, and i# it i" "o&ething that cannot(e "hared 4ith or tran"&itted to other", the /ery #oundation o# the concet o# the$uru colla"e".


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!.$.2" critiue o# "iritual authority i" /ery rele/ant to an age #ull o# guru" 4hoha/e turned out to (e &aniulati/e and &ercenary "la/e &a"ter". 7i"unco&ro&i"ing critici"& o# eloitation and co&&erciali"& in the gar( o#"irituality i" yet to (e ri/aled. he ca"e o# Bhag4an Ra=nee"h, Muktananda, andDa Free John, to na&e only a #e4 Gtheir na&e" are legion any4ay?H, all o# 4ho&

4ere ro/en guilty o# the 4or"t #or& o# authoritariani"&, "eual a(u"e o# theirun#ortunate #e&ale di"cile", and o# #inancial #raud and chicanery, (ear"te"ti&ony to !.$.2" 4arning" again"t guru" and other religiou" teacher". !.$."ee&" to ha/e the @&oral authority@, i# one &ay u"e that ter&, to de(unk guru"and religiou" teacher" (ecau"e he ha" not "uccu&(ed to the te&tation orre""ure o# (uilding an organi>ation or in"titution to re"er/e and roagate hi"@teaching"@. hi" 4a" "o&ething e/en J. %ri"hna&urti 4a" not i&&une to. nthe contrary, he 4a" o("e""ed 4ith the re"er/ation and roagation o# hi"teaching" in their @ri"tine urity@.

ne o# the &o"t radical and "tartling clai&" that !.$. &ake" i" that the "earch #orenlighten&ent, "al/ation, or &ok"ha, i" the cau"e o# the greate"t &i"ery or"u##ering. !.$. "ay" that it i" the duh!hao# all duh!has? In the ur"uit o# thi" non'ei"tent culture'i&o"ed goal, eole ha/e "u(=ected the&"el/e" to all "ort" o#hy"ical and "ychological torture. !.$. regard" all #or&" o# a"cetici"& or "el#'denial a" er/er"e. It i" er/er"e to torture the (ody, or to deri/e one"el# o# (a"ichy"ical need", in the hoe o# ha/ing "iritual eerience". he torture radicallydi"tur(" the &eta(oli"& o# the (ody and gi/e" ri"e to hallucination" 4hich arecon"idered a" great "iritual eerience". @All the"e "iritual eerience" and/i"ion" are (orn out o# di"tur(ance" in the &eta(oli"& o# the (ody,@ declare"

!.$. 7e &aintain" that the eerience" induced (y (reath'control or ranaya&aare =u"t roduct" o# the deletion o# the #lo4 o# oygen to the (rain. he tear"that #lo4 do4n the cheek" o# the de/otee" or bha!tasre"ult #ro& a natural#unction o# the eye in re"on"e to a hy"iological roce"". @hey are not actuallytear" o# de/otion, or o# bha!ti, (ut a "i&le re"on"e to "el#'induced hy"iological"tre"",@ re&ark" !.$. +hat a(out the ideal o# the renunciation o# de"ire !.$./ie4" de"ire a" a #unction o# hor&one" in the (ody. here i" no "uch thing a" atotal a("ence o# de"ire #or the li/ing (ody. hat i" yet another hoa re/alent inIndia. I# anything it i" the de"ire #or &ok"ha that ha" to (e renounced?

According to !.$., there i" no ualitati/e contra"t (et4een the ur"uit o#

&aterial /alue" and the ur"uit o# the "o'called "iritual /alue". 7e there#orere=ect" the di/i"ion (et4een @higher@ and @lo4er@ goal". he ur"uit o# "iritual/alue" i" not in any 4ay "uerior to the ur"uit o# &aterial /alue". hi" i" a /eryradical o"ition, articularly in the contet o# the Indian tradition. !.$. argue"that the u"e o# thought, a hy"ical in"tru&ent, to attain the goal i" co&&on to(oth the ur"uit". Since the "iritual "eeker i" al"o u"ing thought to attain hi"ro=ected goal" or /alue", hi" ur"uit al"o #all" 4ithin the (ound" o# "o&ething


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&aterial and &ea"ura(le. here i" nothing @tran"cendental@ a(out it. Moreo/er,the "iritual ur"uit i" a" "el#'centered a" the &aterial one. It &ake" no di##erence4hether you are concerned 4ith your eace or "al/ation, or your #inancial "tatu".It i" "till a "el#i"h ur"uit. !.$. al"o argue" that "iritual goal" are only an illu"oryeten"ion o# &aterial goal". By (elie/ing in $od one think" that one 4ill #ind

"ecurity in the &aterial 4orld in the #or& o# a good =o( or a cure #or "o&e illne""or de#or&ity. Faith (eco&e" a &ean" o# o(taining &aterial goal". hi" i" =u"t adelu"ion. A" !.$. ut" it3

(here are no spiritual goals at all) they are simply an etension of materialgoals into what you imagine to be a higher loftier plane. You mista!enlybelieve that by pursuing the spiritual goal you will somehow miraculouslyma!e your material goals simple and manageable. (his is in actuality not

possible. You may thin! that only inferior persons pursue material goalsthat material achievements are boring but in fact the so#called spiritualgoals you have put before yourself are eactly the same.

!.$. al"o ha" "o&e intere"ting /ie4" on "ocial i""ue". Since he re=ect" the "earch#or er&anence, he ue"tion" the /alidity o# grand rogra&" #or the "ake o#@7u&anity@. 7e &aintain" that the concet o# @7u&anity@ i" an a("traction (ornout o# a cra/ing #or er&anence. +e a""u&e that there i" "o&e collecti/e ander&anent entity called @7u&anity@ o/er and a(o/e articular and eri"ha(leindi/idual". he a""u&tion ha" no /alidity #or !.$. A re/olutionary rogra&like Mari"&, #or ea&le, a""u&e" that @7u&anity@ 4ill (e er&anent and 4ill

e/entually eerience the #ruit" o# the #uture co&&uni"t eoch. hi" a""u&tionha" no (a"i". It i" uite likely that @7u&anity@ could de"troy it"el# in the caitali"teoch. +hat ha" i&ortance i" the redica&ent o# indi/idual" in the 4orld hereand no4, not the @Future o# 7u&anity@. he re/olutionary i" #rightened o# hi"o4n i&er&anence. 7e reali>e" that he 4ill not (e around to eerience the(ene#it" o# li/ing in hi" utoian "ociety. 7e there#ore in/ent" an a("traction,@7u&anity@, and endo4" it 4ith er&anence. @7u&anity, in the "en"e in 4hichyou u"e it, and it" #uture, ha" no "igni#icance to &e,@ re&ark" !.$. I# the de&and#or er&anence co&e" to an end, the concet o# @7u&anity@ cea"e" to ha/e any&eaning.

!.$. i" not again"t co&&uni"&. 7e ackno4ledge" the achie/e&ent" o# theco&&uni"t atte&t to &eet the (a"ic need" o# the &a""e". But a" a oliticalideology it ha" turned into another @4arty outgro4th@ o# the old religiou""tructure o# thought that ha", naturally, created a lot o# &e"" and &i"ery. !.$. i""ketical o# $or(ache/ and oine" that $or(ache/ ha" @"old it out@ to the +e"t.7e ha" done hi" art and the Ru""ian eole "hould a"" hi& (y. But o4er


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corrut" and hi" only concern no4 i" to hold on to hi" o"ition. !.$. o("er/e"that Ru""ia "hould "ol/e it" ro(le&" 4ithin the #ra&e4ork o# it" "ociali"t"tructure and not look to alien "olution". 7e 4arn" that all "ort" o# religiou" "ect"4ill atte&t to #ill the /acuu& created (y the colla"e o# co&&uni"& and 4illtake the &a""e" #or a ride.

!.$. i" reali"tic enough to ackno4ledge that 4e li/e in a "ordid 4orld o# ouro4n &aking. 7e re#er" to "ociety a" the @hu&an =ungle@ and o("er/e" that it4ould (e &uch ea"ier to "ur/i/e in nature2" =ungle. A" he "ay", @hi" i" a =ungle4e ha/e created. ou can2t "ur/i/e in thi" 4orld. C/en i# you try to luck a #ruit#ro& a tree, the tree (elong" to "o&eone or to "ociety.@ Cl"e4here he i" &oreelicit in hi" indict&ent o# the roerty "y"te&3 @+hat right do you ha/e toclai& roerty right" o/er the ri/er #lo4ing #reely there@ he a"k". !.$. ha" noillu"ion" a(out the 4ay "ociety 4ork". 7e oint" out that it i" (a"ically intere"tedin &aintaining the "tatu" uo and 4ill not he"itate to eli&inate any indi/idual

4ho (eco&e" a "eriou" threat to it. So&e "ocietie" &ay tolerate di""ent, (ut onlyto a oint. No "ociety 4ill tolerate a "eriou" threat to it" continuity. hi" i&lie"that any atte&t to ter&inate the "tatu" uo 4ill re"ult in /iolence. +e ha/e toaccet the "ocial reality a" it i" i&o"ed on u" #or urely #unctional rea"on",@ "ay"!.$.

I have to accept the reality of present#day capitalist society howevereploitative or inhumane it may seem to be. &ot because it is the bestsystem that can ever be or because its eploitation and inhumanity areunreal but for pure and simple reasons of survival. (he acceptance hasonly a functional value. &othing more and nothing less. If I do not acceptsocial reality as it is imposed on me I will -end up in the loony#binsinging merry melodies and loony tunes.

here &ay (e an all'or'nothing #allacy here. Do I ha/e to accet all a"ect" o# the"ocial reality in order to "ur/i/e and #unction in it +hat doe" it &ean to @accet@any a"ect o# thi" "ocial reality at all I" the loony'(in the only alternati/e toacceting the "tatu" uo a" it i" i&o"ed on u" +ill not thi" accetanceencourage "ociety to (eco&e &ore and &ore totalitarian

+e ha/e to re&e&(er that "ociety 4ill only tolerate di""ent u to a certain oint.+e al"o ha/e to ackno4ledge the nece""ity o# "ur/i/ing in "ociety a" 4e #ind it.+e can talk a(out alternati/e "ocietie", #anta"i>e a(out ideal "ocietie", and"eculate endle""ly a(out the #uture. But 4e ha/e to "ur/i/e in thi" "ociety hereand no4. hi" can (e conceded. he ro(le& i" that there are &any thing" a(out"ociety a" it i" that al"o endanger one2" ro"ect" o# "ur/i/al. I# I li/e in a


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neigh(orhood threatened (y gang 4ar", I ha/e to do "o&ething a(out it or getthe co&&unity to do "o&ething a(out it. ther4i"e I ri"k (eing "hot at the netti&e. !.$.2" e&ha"i" on acceting "ociety a" it i" i" ro(le&atic. Such accetancecould end u "trengthening the /ery &echani"& o# &aintaining the "tatu" uo.

!.$. i" not intere"ted in the"e acade&ic i""ue". 7e i" not in con#lict 4ith "ocietyor it" "tructure o# o4er. 7e i" not intere"ted in changing anything or takinganything a4ay #ro& any(ody. According to hi&, the de&and to change one"el#and the de&and to change the 4orld go together. Since he i" #ree #ro& thede&and to change hi&"el#, he ha" no ro(le& 4ith the 4orld a" it i". hi" doe"not &ean that he (elie/e" that it i" a er#ect 4orld. 7e ha" "tu&(led into acondition in 4hich there i" no con#lict 4ith the 4ay thing" are. But it re&ain"true that he o"e" a "eriou" (ut "u(tle threat to the /alue "y"te& o# "ociety. 7o44ould he react i# he i" told to "hut u !.$. relie" that he i" not intere"ted in(eco&ing a &artyr to any cau"e, not e/en #reedo& o# "eech, and 4ould

ro(a(ly "hut u?

So&e o# !.$.2" critici"&" o# "ocial &o/e&ent" are intere"ting. he Anti'Bo&(&o/e&ent i" a good ea&le. !.$. argue" that the Bo&( i" only an eten"ion o#the "tructure 4hich ha" created the need #or the olice&an. he olice&an ei"t"in order to rotect &y little roerty #ro& ercei/ed threat". he Bo&(, in =u"tthe "a&e 4ay, ei"t" in order to rotect the collecti/e roerty o# a "ociety ornation #ro& ercei/ed threat". I cannot con"i"tently =u"ti#y the need #or theolice&an and yet oo"e the need #or the Bo&(. hey go together. hi" 4a"!.$.2" re"on"e to Bertrand Ru""ell 4hen he &et hi& at a ti&e during 4hichRu""ell 4a" acti/ely in/ol/ed in the Anti'Bo&( &o/e&ent.

he ecological ro(le& i" another ea&le. !.$. oint" out that the root" o# there"ent ecological cri"i" lie in the Judeo':hri"tian (elie# that the hu&an "ecie" i""uerior to other "ecie" (ecau"e it alone 4a" created #or a grand uro"e, andthat, there#ore, it had the ri/ilege o# do&inating and u"ing the re"t o# nature.7indui"& and Buddhi"& al"o "hare a /ariant o# thi" (elie#, the idea that (irth a"a hu&an (eing i" the &o"t reciou" and highe"t #or& o# (irth. It i" (elie/ed thatin order to attain enlighten&ent or &ok"ha e/en the god" ha/e to (e re(orn a"hu&an (eing". !.$. co&letely re=ect" thi" (elie# in the "ecial "tatu" and"ueriority o# the hu&an "ecie". 7e o("er/e" that the hu&an "ecie" i" not

created #or any grander uro"e than the &o"uito or the garden "lug i". urerroneou" (elie# in our o4n "ueriority ha" (een u"ed to =u"ti#y oureter&ination o# other "ecie", and ha" led to the en/iron&ental ro(le&. +hati" in ue"tion i" not =u"t the kind o# technology and the econo&ic "y"te& 4eha/e, (ut the "tructure o# (elie# and /alue" 4hich dri/e the technology and theecono&ic "y"te&.


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But the ro(le& endanger" u", not the lanet. Nature can take care o# it"el#. So iti" a("urd to talk o# "a/ing the earth or "a/ing the lanet. @+e are in danger, notthe lanet,@ o("er/e" !.$. he ro(le& ha" to (e dealt 4ith reali"tically inrelation to the o(=ecti/e o# &eeting the (a"ic need" o# the oulation o# thelanet. 7e i" uick to oint out that 7olly4ood "tar" are only intere"ted in

ro&oting the&"el/e" and not the en/iron&ent. he li#e"tyle o# the"e "tar" i"it"el# a contri(uting #actor to the ro(le&. Si&ilarly, tho"e 4ho 4rite (ook" andarticle" critici>ing the de"truction o# tree" are al"o contri(uting to the ro(le&(ecau"e the aer #or their (ook" and article" co&e" at the een"e o# tho"e /erytree". !.$. doe" not "ee any =u"ti#ication #or the u(lication o# (ook" in the age o#the co&uter and the /ideo'ca""ette. And he i" a("olutely right. !.$. al"o 4arn"that the cau"e o# the en/iron&ent, like other religiou" and olitical cau"e", 4ill(e u"ed to =u"ti#y the er"ecution and de"truction o# indi/idual".

!.$. i" notoriou" #or hi" re"on"e to the 5


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In !.$.2" account, all #or&" o# de"truction, di"order, and "u##ering #lo4 #ro& thedi/i"ion (et4een the "el# and the 4orld or nature. hi" di/i"i/e &o/e&ent o#thought ca&e into oeration 4ith the (irth o# "el#'con"ciou"ne"" "o&e4here inthe roce"" o# the e/olution o# &ankind and &ark" the (eginning o# the end o#thi" "ecie". @he in"tru&ent that 4e think lace" u" at the innacle o# creation i"

the /ery thing that 4ill lead to the de"truction o# not only the hu&an "ecie" (utall #or&" o# li#e on thi" lanet,@ declare" !.$. 7e i" thu" no "tarry'eyed utoianor &illenarian. here i" no @kingdo& o# hea/en@ around any o# the corner" o#ti&e. n the contrary, it i" the aocaly"e that a4ait" u". hi" i" not (ecau"e o#any religiou" or "uernatural #actor ' !.$. &aintain" that there i" no o4erout"ide o# &an ' (ut (ecau"e o# the /ery nature o# the in"tru&ent o# thought on4hich hu&an ci/ili>ation i" (a"ed.

!.$. thu" end" u 4ith a "u(=ecti/e elanation o# the hu&an condition. hi" i"uite in the line o# the Indian, or rather, the Ca"tern aroach. It i" not "eci#ic

eternal, "ocial or "ocioecono&ic #actor" that are re"on"i(le, e.g., cla"" di/i"ion",or the &ilitary'indu"trial e"ta(li"h&ent, (ut internal #actor", the "earati/e&o/e&ent o# the thought &echani"&, the @ego "tructure@, the @"earati/e "el#'con"ciou"ne""@, the @nature o# the &ind@, and "o on. hi" aroach, ho4e/er, ha"it" li&itation".

!.$. "o&eti&e" talk" a" i# the ro(le& i" (iological, or &ore "eci#ically, genetic.$enetic #actor", he "ee&" to "ugge"t, are the ulti&ate deter&inant" o# the hu&anredica&ent. 7e o("er/e" in a""ing that elanation" re#erring to kar&a areo("olete hog4a"h in the #ace o# genetic "cience. De#or&itie" ha/e genetic cau"e"and can (e handled (y the "cience o# genetic". +e don2t need to elain the& (yre#erence to "in" co&&itted in a re/iou" li#e. In an inter/ie4 4ith Michael o&"#or @Ne4 Di&en"ion"@ **; !.$. hold" culture re"on"i(le. :ulture, he "ee&"to "ugge"t, 4ith it" /alue'"y"te&, it" &odel" o# er#ect indi/idual", and it"atte&t to #it indi/idual" into a co&&on &old, ha" di"torted our natural &ode o#ei"tence. But, on the other hand, !.$. al"o clai&" that 4e are a #unction o# ourgene". ;erha", he 4ould allo4 #or "o&e "ort o# an interaction (et4een cultureand our genetic "tructure. I# he 4ould, then genetic engineering alone cannotdeli/er the good". +e &ight al"o need cultural engineering, a change in culture.

!.$.2" critiue o# culture al"o rai"e" ro(le&". @:ulture@ could &ean di##erent

thing", a &anner o# greeting, or a "y"te& o# religiou" and olitical /alue", or theart and literature o# a "ociety. By @culture@ !.$. &ean" the /alue "y"te&, thenor&ati/e "tructure o# hu&an co&&unitie". here i" a di##erence (et4een thetalk a(out culture and the talk a(out culture". !.$. i" not re#erring to anyarticular culture. 7e think" that there i" not &uch to choo"e (et4een di##erentculture". All culture" are /ariation" on a co&&on the&e, the eretuation o# a"ocial order (y #itting indi/idual" into a co&&on /alue "y"te&. hi" i" the rea"on


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4hy !.$. doe" not di"cri&inate (et4een Ca"tern and +e"tern culture". Nor doe"he ad/ocate a return to our ri&iti/e a"t a" a "olution. he ro(le&" 4ould "till(e there al(eit on a le"" co&le "cale. !.$. re&ark" that @he hydrogen (o&(had it" origin in the =a4(one o# an a"" 4hich the ca/e &an u"ed to kill hi"neigh(or.@ hu" it i" not a ue"tion o# a "eci#ic culture or a "eci#ic eoch o#

cultural e/olution. :ulture it"el# i" the ro(le&.

he "igni#icance o# !.$. lie" in hi" radical and original critiue o# tradition,articularly the religiou" and "iritual tradition. 7i" &o"t i&ortant contri(utioni" that, #or the #ir"t ti&e in hi"tory, the e""ence o# 4hat 4ould (e con"idered a"@"iritual eerience@ i" ere""ed in hy"ical and hy"iological ter&", in ter&"o# the #unctioning o# the (ody. hi" oen" a ne4 er"ecti/e on hu&an otential.+hate/er &ay (e "aid a(out the &erit" and de&erit" o# !.$.2" aroach, it i"undenia(le that it ha" the o4er o# an unconta&inated "i&licity 4hich (ecau"eo# it" /ery nature i" al"o deely enig&atic.

4ha7ter )

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theking2"&encan

ne/er

ut!.$.(ack

togetherAgain.

8!+: 2s there any such thing as your own e97erience

UG:+hate/er you eerience ha" already (een eerienced (y "o&eone el"e.our telling your"el#, @Ah? I a& in a (li""#ul "tate,@ &ean" that "o&eone el"e(e#ore you ha" eerienced that and ha" a""ed it on to you. +hate/er &ay (ethe nature o# the &ediu& through 4hich you eerience, it i" a "econd'hand,third'hand, and la"t'hand eerience. It i" not your". here i" no "uch thing a"your o4n eerience. Such eerience", ho4e/er etraordinary, aren2t 4orth athing.

8!+: ut we get caught u7 with that i,ea.

UG: he eerience i" you.

8!): We want to know what truth is. We want to know what enlighten#ent is.

UG:ou already kno4 it. Don2t tell &e that you don2t. here i" no "uch thing a"truth at all.

8!+: 2 ,on5t know.

UG:ou can only "ay that there i" a logically a"certained re&i"e called truthand you can 4rite a (ook, @My ue"t #or ruth,@ like your e're"ident

Radhakri"hnan.

8!): ut you ha, this search. Was it real You also ,i,n5t know what it wasabout.

UG:My ca"e 4a" uite di##erent.


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8!+: 6ow is that

UG: I 4a" thro4n into that en/iron&ent. I 4a" "urrounded (y all tho"e religiou"eole. I had "ent all &y #or&ati/e year" in the &ilieu o# the heo"ohicalSociety. I didn2t ha/e anything to do 4ith &y o4n (lood relati/e". he only

eole that I kne4 4ere the leader" o# the heo"ohical "ociety. he old &an Mr.J.%ri"hna&urti 4a" art o# &y (ackground. I did not go to hi&. In e/ery roo& o#our hou"e 4e had hoto" o# J.%ri"hna&urti, (eginning #ro& hi" ninth or tenthyear till he 4a", I don2t kno4 ho4 old. I di"liked the hoto" o# all the god" andgodde""e".

8!+: You #ean that was the backgroun, which #a,e you what you are to,ay

UG: No, no. I a& "aying that de"ite all that, 4hate/er haened to &e ha"haened. It "ee&" a &iracle. hat i" the rea"on 4hy I e&ha"i>e 4ithout a

"hado4 o# dou(t, that 4hate/er ha" haened to &e can haen to a con &an, toa rai"t, to a &urderer, or to a thie#. All o# the& ha/e a" &uch a chance a", i# nota (etter one than, all the"e "iritual eole ut together. Don2t a"k &e theue"tion, @+a" the Buddha a rai"t, or Je"u" "o&ething el"e@ hat2" not anintelligent ue"tion.

8!): 4o#ing back to your earlier state#ent ! what is it that you ,i, in7ursuance o; your goal

UG: ou gi/e &e a li"t o# all the "aint", "age", and "a/ior" o# &ankind. hen, lookat their li/e" and look at 4hat they did. I did e/erything they did. Nothing

haened. I kne4 4hat it 4a" all a(out. I 4a" intere"ted in #inding out 4hetherthere 4a" anything to all tho"e teacher", #ro& the /ery (eginning o# our ti&e". I#ound out that they conned the&"el/e" and conned e/ery one o# u". +a" thereanything to their eerience 4hich they 4anted to "hare 4ith the 4orld

8: What ,o you think

UG:Nothing. hey 4ere all honie". Don2t a"k &e, @:ould they all (e honie"@and @+hy did they la"t #or "o long@ he I/ory "oa or ;ear" "oa in the !nitedState" i" cele(rating it" 1


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8): For so#e years he was close to you.

UG: No, no. I 4anted to #ind out 4hether there 4a" anything to hi&. 7e 4a""aying "o&ething on the lat#or&. o4ard the end I a"ked hi& a ue"tion,@+hat do you ha/e (ehind all the a("traction" you are thro4ing at &e and

other" I" there anything@ Ghat 4a" &y 4ay o# dealing 4ith ro(le&".H Ili"tened to hi& e/ery ti&e he ca&e to Madra". But I didn2t "4allo4 any o# hi"4ord". hen the encounter ca&e a(out in a /ery "trange 4ay. +e thra"hed it out.I told hi&, @Look here, a" #ar a" thought i" concerned, it ha" reached it" ac&e inIndia. ou can2t e/en hold a candle (e#ore tho"e &ighty thinker" that India ha"roduced. +hat i" it that you ha/e I 4ant an an"4er.@ But then 4e didn2t getalong. I "aid to &y"el#, @ou are no4here. +hat the hell are you doing here@ Ididn2t 4ant to 4a"te &y ti&e. So I told the old &an, @ou can gi/e your ti&e toanyone 4ho you think 4ill (e heled (y you.@ And that #ini"hed the 4hole thing.hat 4a" in 190*. I ne/er "a4 hi& a#ter4ard".

8): %ir ,oes all this #ean that there was acertain 7rogra##ing

UG:I# there i" one, you ha/e to rule out all "uch thing" a" &utation, and radicaltran"#or&ation. I ruled tho"e out (ecau"e I didn2t #ind anything there to (etran"#or&ed. here 4a" no ue"tion o# &utation o# &ind, radical or other4i"e. Iti" all hog4a"h. But it i" di##icult #or you to thro4 all thi" "tu## out o# your "y"te&.ou can al"o deny it and (ru"h it a"ide, (ut thi", @May (e there i" "o&ething to it@la"t" #or a long ti&e. +hen once you "tu&(le into a "ituation that you can callcourage2 you can thro4 the entire a"t out o# your"el#. I don2t kno4 ho4 thi" ha"haened. +hat ha" haened i" "o&ething 4hich cannot (ut (e called an act o#courage, (ecau"e e/erything, not only thi" or that articular teacher you had(een in/ol/ed 4ith, (ut e/erything that e/ery &an, e/ery er"on, thought, #elt,and eerienced (e#ore you, i" co&letely #lu"hed out o# your "y"te&. +hat youare le#t 4ith i" the "i&le thing ' the (ody 4ith it" etraordinary intelligence o#it" o4n.

+hen I 4ent to "chool I "tudied e/erything, including Ad/aita edanta. edanta4a" &y "ecial "u(=ect #or &y Ma"ter" in hilo"ohy. ery early during &y"tudie" I arri/ed at the conclu"ion that there i" no "uch a thing a" &ind at all.

here 4a" a 4ell'kno4n ro#e""or o# "ychology at the !ni/er"ity o# Madra",Dr. Bo"e. Ju"t a &onth (e#ore &y #inal ea&ination", I 4ent to hi& and a"kedhi& the ue"tion, @+e ha/e "tudied all the"e "i "chool" o# "ychology, thi", that,and the other, ehau"ti/ely, (ut I don2t "ee in all thi" a lace #or the &ind2 at all.@GAt that ti&e I u"ed to "ay that @Freud i" the "tuendou" #raud o# the 4entieth:entury.@ he #act that he ha" la"ted #or a hundred year" doe" not &ean


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anything.H So &y ro(le& 4a" that I did not "ee any &ind. So I a"ked &yro#e""or, @I" there a &ind@ he only hone"t #ello4 that I ha/e &et in &y li#e4a" not any o# tho"e holy &en (ut that ro#e""or. 7e "aid that i# I 4anted &yMa"ter2" degree I "hould not a"k "uch uncoorta(le ue"tion". 7e "aid, @ou4ould (e in trou(le. I# you 4ant your o"tgraduate degree, reeat 4hat you

ha/e &e&ori>ed and you 4ill get a degree. I# you don2t 4ant it, you elore the"u(=ect on your o4n.@ So I "aid, @$ood(ye.@ I did not take &y ea&ination. I 4a"lucky (ecau"e at that ti&e I had a lot o# &oney, and I told hi& that I had #ourti&e" the inco&e o# 4hat he had a" ro#e""or o# "ychology. I told hi& that Icould "ur/i/e 4ith all thi" &oney and 4alked out o# the 4hole (u"ine"".

But &y "u"icion Oa(out the &indP er"i"ted #or a long ti&e. ou "ee, you cannot(e #ree #ro& all thi" "o ea"ily. ou get a #eeling, @May (e the cha O4hoe/er i"talking a(out the &indP kno4" 4hat he i" talking a(out. 7e &u"t ha/e"o&ething.@ Looking (ack, the 4hole thing 4a" a "tuendou" hoa. I told J.

%ri"hna&urti that he 4a" a "tuendou" hoa o# the t4entieth century along 4ithFreud. I told hi&, @ou "ee, you ha/e not #reed your"el# #ro& thi" 4hole idea o#&e""iah" and heo"ohy.@ 7e could not co&e out clean #ro& the 4hole thing.

I# you think that he i" the greate"t teacher o# the 4entieth :entury, all right, goahead, good luck to you. ou are not going to ha/e all the"e tran"#or&ation",radical or other4i"e. Not (ecau"e I kno4 your #uture, (ut (ecau"e there i"nothing there to (e tran"#or&ed, really nothing. I# you think there i", and thinkthat lu& 4ill #all into your "tretched al&, good luck to you. +hat i" the ointo# &y telling you

here i" no "uch thing a" enlighten&ent. So 4hether Ra=nee"h i" enlightened or"o&e other =oker i" enlightened i" irrele/ant. It i" you 4ho a""u&e" that"o&e(ody i", 4hoe/er he i". $ood luck to you? So&e(ody co&ing and telling&e, @hat I a&@ i" a (ig =oke. here i" nothing to thi" 4hole non"en"e. I ha/eheard that there i" a cour"e in the !nited State"3 i# you 4ant enlighten&ent int4enty'#our hour" they charge you one thou"and dollar" and i# you 4ant it4ithin a 4eek, #i/e hundred dollar", and "o on.

8): Why ,i, you talk about "rishna#urti

UG:It ca&e u, you kno4. I looked at hi&, thi" J.%. #reak, "itting here.

8): 2t see#s not rele?ant.

UG: +hat i" rele/ant ell &e. Are you a %ri"hna&urti #reak or 4hat

8): Not e9actly.


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UG:hen it i" no ro(le&. +hat doe" it &atter, 4hether I di"cu"" the ri&e&ini"ter o# India or J. %ri"hna&urti ou kno4, I ere"" 4hat I think o# that&an.

8+: Why ,on5t you kee7 @uiet

UG:7ere 4ith all the"e eole around &e Noi"y eole and noi"y thing" goingon around &e...

8+: 4an you ;eel the thoughts o; 7eo7le

UG:Ju"t the 4ay you #eel hu&idity. OLaughterP I cannot decode and tran"latee/erything. I# I could, you 4ould (e in trou(le. I a& ready to di"cu"" any "u(=ectyou 4ant. I ha/e oinion" on e/erything #ro& di"ea"e to di/inity. So I candi"cu"" any "u(=ect. In A&erica I al4ay" "tart 4ith health #ood. hat i" the

o("e""ion there. +hen you don2t ha/e #aith in anything, #ood (eco&e" youro("e""ion in li#e. So 4hat do 4e do

8+: %o you say that the #in, ,oesn5t e9ist. What ,oes e9ist

UG: hi" Oointing to hi&"el#P i" =u"t a co&uter.

8+: What ,i;;erence ,oes it #ake whether you call it a co#7uter or the #in,

UG: I# you 4ant to u"e that 4ord, it i" #ine 4ith &e. he &ind i" Gnot that I a&gi/ing a ne4 de#initionH the totality o# &an2" eerience", thought", and #eeling".

here i" no "uch thing a" your &ind or &y &ind. I ha/e no o(=ection i# you 4antto call that totality o# &an2" thought", #eeling", and eerience" (y the na&e&ind2. But ho4 they are tran"&itted to u" #ro& generation to generation i" theue"tion. I" it through the &ediu& o# kno4ledge or i" there any other 4ay (y4hich they are tran"&itted #ro& generation to generation, "ay #or ea&le,through the gene" +e don2t ha/e the an"4er" yet. hen 4e co&e to the idea o#&e&ory. +hat i" &an Man i" &e&ory. +hat i" that &e&ory I" it "o&ething&ore than =u"t to re&e&(er, to recall a "eci#ic thing at a "eci#ic ti&e o all thi"4e ha/e to ha/e "o&e &ore an"4er". 7o4 do the neuron" oerate in the (rainI" it all in one area

he other day I 4a" talking to a neuro"urgeon, a /ery young and (right #ello4.7e "aid that &e&ory, or rather the neuron" containing &e&ory, are not in onearea. he eye, the ear, the no"e, all the #i/e "en"ory organ" in your (ody ha/e adi##erent "ort o# &e&ory. But they don2t yet kno4 #or "ure. So 4e ha/e to get&ore an"4er". A" I "ee it, e/erything i" genetically controlled. hat &ean" youdon2t ha/e any #reedo& o# action. hi" i" not 4hat 4e ha/e (een taught in India 'the #atali"tic hilo"ohy. +hen you "ay that there i" no #reedo& o# action, it


34/206

&ean" that you ha/e no 4ay o# acting ecet through the hel o# the kno4ledgethat i" a""ed on to you. It i" in that "en"e, I "aid, no action i" o""i(le 4ithoutthought. Any action that i" (orn out o# thought 4hich (elong" to the totality o#kno4ledge i" a rotecti/e &echani"&. It i" rotecting it"el#. It i" a "el#'eretuating &echani"&. ou are u"ing it all the ti&e. C/ery ti&e you

eerience anything through the hel o# that kno4ledge, the kno4ledge i"#urther "trengthened and #orti#ied. So e/ery ti&e you eerience greed andconde&n it you are adding to it" &o&entu&. ou are not dealing 4ith the actualgreed, anger or de"ire. ou are only intere"ted in u"ing the&. ake, #or ea&le,de"irele""ne"". ou 4ant to (e #ree #ro& de"ire. But you are not dealing 4ithde"ire (ut only 4ith the idea o# ho4 to (e #ree #ro& de"ire2. ou are not dealing4ith "o&ething that i" li/ing there. +hate/er i" there or haening there cannot(e #al"e. ou &ay not like it and &ay conde&n it (ecau"e it doe"n2t #it into your"ocial #ra&e4ork. he action" (orn out o# the de"ire &ay not #all into the"ociety2" #ra&e4ork 4hich accet" certain action" a" "ocially acceta(le and

certain other" a" anti'"ocial. But you are concerned only a(out /alue". ou areconcerned a(out graling 4ith or #ighting that 4hich you conde&n. Such aconcern i" (orn out o# culture, "ociety, nor&", or 4hate/er. he nor&" are #al"eand they are #al"i#ying you. ....

8): What is the way o; #aking this syste# let us say ;or con?enience =#in,5#ore e;;icient

UG: +hy, it i" already e##icient.

8): We woul, like it to be #ore e;;icient.

UG: By trying to do that you are only "harening the in"tru&ent. hatin"tru&ent OthoughtP i" u"e#ul in achie/ing certain re"ult" 4hich are out"ide the#ield o# li/ing.

8): 2s the #in, itsel; outsi,e the ;iel, o; li?ing

UG: It i" all dead. It can deal 4ith only idea" or thought" 4hich are actuallydead.

8): %ay there are two cities an, a ri?er in the #i,,le. These two cities ha?e toco##unicate an, we ha?e to buil, a bri,ge.

UG: e", you already ha/e the technical kno4'ho4.

8): No. We ,on5t.

UG:ou don2t ha/e, (ut "o&eone el"e can gi/e it to you.


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8): %u77ose no one gi?es it.

UG: hen, you don2t (other a(out that. +e don2t di"cu"" hyothetical "ituation".+ho the original &an 4a", ho4 did he get thi" idea ' 4hether it 4a" (y trial anderror ' 4e don2t (other a(out all that. he de&and to cro"" o/er to the other "ide

(ecau"e there i" a rich land there i" a kind o# dri/e ' the dri/e #or "ur/i/al. hatdri/e i" an eten"ion o# thi" "ur/i/al &echani"& that already ei"t" in nature.ou don2t ha/e to teach dog", cat", ig", and other 4ild ani&al", ho4 to "earch#or #ood, eat and "ur/i/e. All our acti/ity i" nothing (ut an eten"ion o# the "a&e"ur/i/al &echani"&. But in thi" roce"" 4e ha/e "ucceeded in "harening thatin"tru&ent. +ith the hel o# that in"tru&ent 4e are a(le to create e/erything that4e are "o roud o# ' rogre"", thi", that, and the other. ou &ay (e a(le to utthi" record layer together and take it aart. hi" kind o# kno4ledge can (etran"&itted #ro& one er"on to another. But the ro(le&" 4hich 4e areintere"ted in "ol/ing ' the day'to'day ro(le&", li/ing 4ith "o&eone el"e, or

li/ing in thi" 4orld ' are the li/ing ro(le&". hey are di##erent e/ery ti&e. +e4ould like to treat the& on a ar 4ith &echanical ro(le&" and u"e thatkno4ledge and eerience Oco&ing #ro& dealing 4ith the &echanical ro(le&"Pto re"ol/e ro(le&" o# li/ing. But it doe"n2t "ee& to 4ork that 4ay. +e cannota"" on the"e eerience" to other". It doe"n2t hel. our o4n eerience" don2tal4ay" hel you. ou tell your"el#, #or ea&le, @I# I had thi" eerience tenyear" ago, &y li#e 4ould ha/e (een di##erent.@ But ten year" hence you 4ill (etelling your"el# eactly the "a&e thing, @I# I had thi" eerience ten year" ago, ....@But 4e are no4 at thi" oint and your a"t eerience" cannot hel you tore"ol/e your ro(le&". he learning concerning &echanical ro(le&" i" u"e#ulonly in that area and not in any other. But in the area o# li#e 4e don2t learnanything. +e "i&ly i&o"e our &echanical kno4ledge on the co&inggeneration" and de"troy the o""i(ility o# their dealing 4ith their ro(le&" intheir o4n 4ay.

he other day I &et "o&e(ody, a leader. I don2t kno4 hi&. 7e had co&e "traight#ro& "o&e uni/er"ity. 7e "aid, @+e ha/e to hel the co&ing generation.@ 7e "aidthat the #uture (elong" to the young generation. I told hi&, @+hat the hell areyou talking a(out +hy do you 4ant the& to reare to #ace their #uture +eha/e &ade a &e"" o# thi" 4orld "o #ar, and you 4ant to a"" thi" &e"" on to theyounger generation. Lea/e the& alone. I# they &ake a &e"" o# the 4hole thing,

they 4ill ay the rice. +hy i" it your ro(le& today hey are &ore intelligentthan u".@ ur children are &ore intelligent than u". Fir"t o# all, 4e are not readyto #ace that "ituation. So 4e #orce the& into thi" &old. But it doe"n2t hel the&.

he li/ing organi"& and thought are t4o di##erent thing". hought cannotconcei/e o# the o""i(ility o# anything haening out"ide the #ield o# ti&e. I don2t4ant to di"cu"" ti&e in a &etahy"ical "en"e. I &ean (y ti&e ye"terday,


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to&orro4, and the day a#ter. he in"tru&ent 4hich ha" roduced tre&endou"re"ult" in thi" area Oo# ti&eP i" una(le to "ol/e ro(le&" in the area o# li/ing. +eu"e thi" in"tru&ent to achie/e &aterial re"ult". +e al"o aly the "a&e thing toachie/e our "o'called "iritual goal". It 4ork" here (ut it doe"n2t 4ork there.+hether it i" &ateriali"tic goal" or "iritual goal", the in"tru&ent 4e are u"ing i"

&atter. here#ore, the "o'called "iritual goal" are al"o &ateriali"tic in their /alueand in their re"ult". I don2t "ee any di##erence (et4een the t4o. I ha/en2t #oundany "irit there. he 4hole "tructure 4hich 4e ha/e (uilt on the #oundation o#the a""u&ed "el#2 or "irit2, there#ore, colla"e".

+hat i" &ind ou can gi/e a hundred de#inition". It i" =u"t a "i&le &echanical#unctioning. he (ody i" re"onding to "ti&uli. It i" only a "ti&ulu"'re"onding&echani"&. It doe" not kno4 o# any other action. But through the tran"lation o#"ti&ulu" in ter&" o# hu&an /alue", 4e ha/e de"troyed the "en"iti/ity o# theli/ing organi"&. ou &ay talk o# the "en"iti/ity o# the &ind and the "en"iti/ity o#

your #eeling to4ard" your #ello4 (eing". But it doe"n2t &ean a thing.

8): ut there #ust be so#e sensiti?ity without a sti#ulus.

UG: +hat I a& talking a(out i" the "en"iti/ity o# "en"ory ercetion". But 4hatyou are concerned 4ith i" "en"uality. hey are di##erent thing". he "en"oryacti/ity o# the li/ing organi"& i" all that ei"t". :ulture ha" "ueri&o"ed on it"o&ething el"e 4hich i" al4ay" in the #ield o# "en"uality. +hether it i" a "iritualeerience or any other eerience, it i" in the #ield o# lea"ure. So the de&and#or er&anence i" really the ro(le&. he &o&ent a "en"ation i" tran"lated a" alea"ura(le one there i" already a ro(le&. he tran"lation i" o""i(le onlythrough the hel o# kno4ledge. But the (ody re=ect" (oth ain and lea"ure #orthe "i&le rea"on that any "en"ation that la"t" longer than it" natural duration i"de"troying the "en"iti/ity o# the ner/ou" "y"te&. But 4e are intere"ted only inthe "en"ual a"ect o# the "en"ory acti/ity.

8+: When you re;er to =we5 who# ,o you #ean

UG: Becau"e 4e are u"ing the 4ord 4e2, you are a"king &e the ue"tion", @+hoi" the 4e2@ @+hat i" the entity that i" u"ing it@ etc. hi" i" only a "el#'eretuating &echani"&, and it i" &aintaining it" continuity. +hen I "ay "el#2, I

don2t &ean the "el#2 in the "en"e in 4hich 4e nor&ally u"e the 4ord. It i" &orelike a "el#'"tarter in a car. It i" eretuating it"el# through thi" reetiti/e roce"".

8): What is an e9a#7le o; sensiti?ity

UG: here i" no "en"iti/ity other than the "en"iti/e ner/ou" "y"te& re"ondingto "ti&uli. So, i# you are concerned or reoccuied 4ith the "en"iti/ity o#anything el"e, you are (lu

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UG Krishnamurti - No Way Out (209p)