Trial Transcript - Second Day 11.26.18 · 2018-11-26 · 05 , hv rxu rru 05 , ruuhfw 7+( &2857 :dw ph wr eulj khu edfn xs" 05 , 6xuh 7+( &2857 0v .udww rx uh vwloo xghu rdwk iurp

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1LDJDUD CRXnWy CRXUWKRXVH 175 HDwOHy 6WUHHW /RFNSRUW, 1Hw YRUN 14094 1RYHPEHU 26, 2018

B H I R U H:

HO1ORABLE ER,1 P. DELAB,O, FDPLOy CRXUW -XGJH

A S S H D U D Q F H V:

RA1DY S. MARGUL,S, ES4., $SSHDULnJ IRU 3HWHU 0DUN 'LDUEDNHUOy

A1THO1Y -. CERV,, ES4., $SSHDULnJ IRU .DWLH /ynn 5LIRUG

-ASO1 -. CAFARELLA, ES4., $SSHDULnJ DV $WWRUnHy IRU CKLOG

P U H V H Q W:

PETER MAR. D,ARBA.ERLY, 3HWLWLRnHU/5HVSRnGHnW

.AT,E LY11 R,FORD, 3HWLWLRnHU/5HVSRnGHnW

ASHLEY .LE,1SCHM,DT, 1YACR, 1YRCR, 2IILFLDO CRXUW 5HSRUWHU


E ; $ 0 , 1 $ 7 , 2 1 6:,71E66 3$*E 180BE5

-EA11E .RATT

CO1T,1UED D,RECT EXAM,1AT,O1 BY MR. MARGUL,S 4

CROSS-EXAM,1AT,O1 BY MR. CERV, 41


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11/26/18 - DX 2F -EA11E KRATT BY MARG8/I6


4

(3rRFHHdinJs FRPPHnFHd DW 2:08 p.P.)

THE COURT: 7KLV LV WKH PDWWHU RI 3HWHU

'LDUEDNHUOy DnG .DWLH 5LIRUG. BRWK SDUWLHV KDYH FRPSHWLnJ

SHWLWLRnV DJDLnVW HDFK RWKHU IRU FXVWRGy DnG YLVLWDWLRn wLWK

UHVSHFW WR 2OLYLD DnG 0DVRn. ,n WKH FRXUWURRP , KDYH 5DnGy

0DUJXOLV, DWWRUnHy IRU 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy. , KDYH $nWKRny CHUYL,

wKR LV WKH DWWRUnHy IRU 0V. 5LIRUG. , KDYH -DVRn CDIDUHOOD,

wKR LV WKH $WWRUnHy IRU CKLOG. , KDYH ERWK SHWLWLRnHU DnG

UHVSRnGHnW. 7KLV LV RXU VHFRnG GDy RI KHDULnJ. :H FRnFOXGHG

WKH ODVW GDy wLWK 0V. .UDWW Rn WKH VWDnG, DnG VKH'V VWLOO XS

WKHUH, FRUUHFW?

MR. CERV,: YHV, YRXU HRnRU.

MR. MARGUL,S: CRUUHFW.

THE COURT: :DnW PH WR EULnJ KHU EDFN XS?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: 0V. .UDWW, yRX'UH VWLOO XnGHU RDWK

IURP WKH RWKHU GDy.

-EA11E .RATT, FDOOHG KHUHLn DV D wLWnHVV, KDYLnJ

EHHn SUHYLRXVOy GXOy VwRUn, WHVWLILHG DV IROORwV:

THE :,T1ESS: 7KDnN yRX, -XGJH.

THE COURT: :DV 0U. -- yRX'UH VWLOO Rn GLUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: 'LUHFW.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

CO1T,1UED D,RECT EXAM,1AT,O1 BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 0V. .UDWW, JRRG DIWHUnRRn.

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A *RRG DIWHUnRRn.

4 , WKLnN wKHn wH OHIW RII ODVW WLPH, , KDG DVNHG yRX LI

WKHUH wHUH HYHU Dny RFFDVLRnV wKHn RWKHU IDPLOy PHPEHUV RI

HLWKHU RI WKH SDUWLHV wDV SUHVHnW DW H[FKDnJHV RI WKH

FKLOGUHn. , WKLnN yRX KDG VWDUWHG WR GHVFULEH WKDW KHU

EURWKHU wDV SUHVHnW Rn RnH RFFDVLRn Ln 6HSWHPEHU, FRUUHFW?

MR. CERV,: , wRXOG REMHFW WR DVNHG DnG DVNHG

DnG DnVwHUHG. , NnRw wH KDYH WR WUy DnG ILJXUH RXW wKHUH wH

wHUH DW, EXW WKLV wDV DOUHDGy JRnH RYHU. 7KHUH wDV WHVWLPRny

wLWK UHJDUGV WR wKR wDV SUHVHnW DnG wKHWKHU VKH wDnWHG RWKHU

SHRSOH SUHVHnW. $OO RI WKDW wDV WHVWLILHG WR DW RXU ODVW

DSSHDUDnFH.

THE COURT: 2NDy. :KHUH , OHIW RII wLWK Py

SHUVRnDO nRWHV wDV WKDW -- wLWnHVV wDV VWDWLnJ IDWKHU nHYHU

wDV -- nHYHU VSHG Ln WKH FDU. 1HYHU SXOOHG RYHU Ey SROLFH.

0DVRn wDV DFWLnJ nRUPDO DV LnIDnW. FDWKHU DSSURSULDWH wLWK

0DVRn. FHG KLP IRRG. 7KDW wDV WKH ODVW WKLnJ , wDV DW, Ln

WHUPV RI Py ODVW nRWHV.

,W wDV MXVW DERXW -- yHDK. ,W wDV D FRXSOH

WKLnJV SULRU WR -- RNDy. 6R WKDW wDV DERXW D IHw WKLnJV SULRU

WR, WKDW WKHUH wDV Dn H[FKDnJH, KHU EURWKHU wDV DW WKH

H[FKDnJH, wLnGRw wDV GRwn. BURWKHU ODXJKHG RXW ORXG, DnG WKHn

yRX JRW LnWR WHVWLPRny wLWK GDG'V DSSURSULDWHnHVV wLWK WKH

FKLOG, DnG IHHGLnJ WKH FKLOG SURSHUOy, VR --

MR. MARGUL,S: 6R --

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THE COURT: -- , JXHVV WKH REMHFWLRn LV WR

EDFNWUDFNLnJ.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KH REMHFWLRn LV WR DVNHG DnG

DnVwHUHG, EXW , GRn'W HYHn WKLnN , DVNHG -- WKH RnOy TXHVWLRn

, DVNHG VR IDU LV, GR yRX UHFDOO WKDW. 7KDW wDV MXVW Py

TXHVWLRn.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: :KHUH , WKRXJKW wH OHIW RII, DW

OHDVW DFFRUGLnJ WR Py nRWHV, WKH TXHVWLRn, OLWHUDOOy, wDV, GR

yRX UHFDOO WKDW, DV IDU DV wKHUH wH OHIW RII. , wDVn'W DVNLnJ

KHU D TXHVWLRn DOUHDGy DnVwHUHG.

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR RYHUUXOH LW EDVHG Rn

WKH IDFW WKDW WKDW WHVWLPRny wDV YHUy VKRUW DnG FORVH Ln

UHODWLRn WR wKDW -- , -- , WKLnN KH'V VWLOO wLWKLn WKH VDPH

WLPHIUDPH.

$OO ULJKW. *R DKHDG.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 'R yRX UHFDOO WKDW?

A YHV, , GR.

4 HDG WKHUH EHHn Dny RFFDVLRnV GXULnJ yRXU VXSHUYLVLRn

Ln WKLV PDWWHU wKHn -- RWKHU WKDn .DWLH'V EURWKHU, wKHn Dny

RWKHU IDPLOy PHPEHU -- EHVLGHV KHU PRWKHU, RI FRXUVH -- PLJKW

KDYH EHHn SUHVHnW?

A 1R.

4 $nG wKDW DERXW 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy, 3HWHU? :HUH WKHUH

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HYHU Dny RFFDVLRnV wKHn Dny IDPLOy PHPEHUV RI KLV wHUH SUHVHnW

GXULnJ SHULRGV RI DFFHVV?

A YHV.

4 $nG wKR wRXOG WKDW EH?

A 7KHUH wRXOG EH KLV PRWKHU, DnG KLV VLVWHU 1LFROH wDV

SUHVHnW Rn RnH wHHNHnG.

4 $nG GR yRX UHFDOO Rn KRw PDny RFFDVLRnV KLV PRWKHU wDV

SUHVHnW?

A EYHUy -- HYHUy YLVLW.

4 EDFK RnH?

A YHV.

4 $nG RWKHU WKDn 1LFROH, KDYH yRX HYHU PHW Dny RI

3HWHU'V RWKHU VLVWHUV, RU wDV LW MXVW 1LFROH?

A -XVW 1LFROH DW WKH YLVLWV.

4 $nG KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H RU GHVFULEH -- OHW'V

VWDUW wLWK 1LFROH, 3HWHU'V VLVWHU. 'R yRX UHFDOO wKLFK

RFFDVLRn LW wDV WKDW VKH wDV SUHVHnW IRU?

A ,W wDV WKH wHHNHnG wH wHnW WR WKH SODyJURXnG DW WKH

SDUN Rn 0DSOH 5RDG.

4 0DSOH :HVW? 'R yRX UHFDOO wKLFK RnH?

A ,'P nRW VXUH. ,W wDV ULJKW nH[W GRRU WR 0LOODUG

FLOOPRUH 6XEXUEDn.

4 0DSOH EDVW.

A 2NDy.

4 $nG KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H 1LFROH'V GHPHDnRU

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GXULnJ WKDW SHULRG RI DFFHVV?

A 9HUy ORYLnJ DnG FDULnJ. 6KH wDV H[FLWHG WR VHH

2OLYLD. 7KH WwR RI WKHP LnWHUDFWHG YHUy wHOO WRJHWKHU. ,n

REVHUYLnJ WKHP, LW ORRNHG OLNH WKHy KDG MXVW SLFNHG XS IURP D

UHODWLRnVKLS WKDW WKHy KDG MXVW KDG WKH GDy EHIRUH.

4 BDVHG Rn yRXU REVHUYDWLRnV, GLG yRX nRWLFH 1LFROH GR

DnyWKLnJ WKDW FDXVHG yRX FRnFHUn?

A 1R.

4 HRw DERXW wLWK 3HWHU'V PRWKHU? HDYLnJ EHHn SUHVHnW

GXULnJ HDFK RI WKH DFFHVV SHULRGV wLWK 3HWHU, wDV WKHUH HYHU

Dn RFFDVLRn WKDW KLV PRWKHU -- GR yRX NnRw KHU nDPH?

A 5HJLnD.

4 5HJLnD. :HUH WKHUH HYHU Dny RFFDVLRnV wKHn yRX

REVHUYHG 5HJLnD GR DnyWKLnJ WKDW FDXVHG yRX FRnFHUn?

A 1R.

4 $nG KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H 5HJLnD'V GHPHDnRU

GXULnJ WKH SHULRGV RI DFFHVV?

A 9HUy ORYLnJ DnG FDULnJ, LnWHUDFWLYH, KDSSy WR EH

DURXnG 2OLYLD.

4 $nG KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H 2OLYLD'V GHPHDnRU wKHn

VKH wDV DURXnG 5HJLnD?

A 6KH wDV EHWWHU DW WKH HnG RI WKH YLVLW WKDn DW WKH

YHUy EHJLnnLnJ RI WKH YLVLW. 6KH MXVW -- LW WRRN D FRXSOH

KRXUV WR wDUP XS WR DnyRnH WKDW wDV DW WKH YLVLWV.

4 $nG RnFH VKH wDUPHG XS, KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H KHU

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GHPHDnRU?

A 6KH'V SODyIXO.

4 $nG Ey WKH wDy, WKLV LV Ln UHIHUHnFH WR 5HJLnD. 7KH

TXHVWLRn KDV WR GR wLWK WKH JUDnGPRWKHU.

A 8P-KPP.

4 HRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H -- RnFH VKH wDUPHG XS, KRw

wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H 2OLYLD'V GHPHDnRU WRwDUG WKH

JUDnGPRWKHU?

A YRX FRXOG WHOO, GHILnLWHOy, WKDW WKHUH wDV PRUH

LnWHUDFWLRn.

4 $nG KDG yRX HYHU REVHUYHG 5HJLnD GR DnyWKLnJ WKDW

FDXVHG yRX WR IHDU IRU 2OLYLD'V wHOO EHLnJ?

A 1R, nHYHU.

4 $nG wKDW DERXW WKH EDEy? :KDW DERXW 0DVRn? :LWK

UHJDUG WR 3HWHU'V IDPLOy -- 5HJLnD, RU KLV VLVWHU 1LFROH --

GLG yRX KDYH RFFDVLRn WR REVHUYH KLV GHPHDnRU wLWK H[WHnGHG

PHPEHUV RI 3HWHU'V IDPLOy?

A YHV.

4 $nG KRw wRXOG yRX FKDUDFWHUL]H WKH EDEy'V GHPHDnRU?

A HH wRXOG UHVSRnG WR 1LFROH, WR 5HJLnD, DnG WR 3HWHU,

HLWKHU KH wDV KDSSy wKHn WKHy wHUH IHHGLnJ KLP, JLYLnJ KLP

VRPHWKLnJ WR GULnN. ,I KH wDV FUyLnJ DnG LI KH wDV EHLnJ KHOG

RU SXVKHG Ln WKH VWUROOHU, yRX FRXOG WHOO WKDW KH HnMRyHG

KLPVHOI.

4 YRX WHVWLILHG ODVW WLPH WKDW RnH RI WKH HDUOLHU DFFHVV

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SHULRGV JRW RII WR D ODWH VWDUW, , WKLnN yRX VDLG DERXW Dn

KRXU, EHFDXVH .DWLH wDnWHG WR NnRw wKHUH yRX wHUH JRLnJ. 'LG

WKDW RFFXU RnOy Rn WKDW RFFDVLRn, RU GLG LW RFFXU PRUH WKDn

MXVW WKDW RnH WLPH WKDW yRX GHVFULEHG?

MR. CERV,: 2EMHFWLRn. 7KDW'V EHHn DVNHG DnG

DnVwHUHG.

THE COURT: 2YHUUXOHG. ,'P JRLnJ WR OHW KHU

DnVwHU.

THE :,T1ESS: 7KH GHODy Ln WLPH RnOy RFFXUUHG

RnFH, EXW VKH DOwDyV wDnWHG WR NnRw wKHUH wH wHUH JRLnJ.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 $nG WR wKRP wRXOG VKH LnTXLUH DERXW wKHUH yRX wHUH

JRLnJ? :RXOG VKH DVN yRX? :RXOG VKH DVN 3HWHU?

A 6KH nHYHU DVNHG 3HWHU Ln IURnW RI PH. 6KH GLGn'W

VSHDN wLWK KLP. 6KH RnOy DVNHG PH, DnG DW WKH WLPH, ,

wRXOGn'W NnRw.

4 $nG KRw GLG VKH UHVSRnG LI yRX WROG KHU yRX GLGn'W

NnRw?

A 6KH wDV YHUy DnJUy.

MR. CERV,: 2EMHFWLRn, YRXU HRnRU. , PHDn, LV

WKHUH D SDUWLFXODU WLPH? , PHDn, HYHUy -- ,'P VXUH LW'V nRW

HYHUy YLVLW. ,V LW RnH YLVLW? :KDW wDV WKH GDWH RI WKDW

YLVLW? , -- , PHDn, , WKLnN WKHUH nHHGV WR EH D OLWWOH ELW RI

D IRXnGDWLRn KHUH RI wKDW wH'UH WDONLnJ DERXW.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. BH D OLWWOH PRUH

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VSHFLILF, 0U. 0DUJXOLV.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 6R Rn Dny RFFDVLRnV WKDW VKH LnTXLUHG DERXW wKHUH yRX

wHUH JRLnJ DnG yRX WROG KHU yRX GLGn'W NnRw, GLG VKH DOwDyV

JLYH yRX WKH VDPH UHVSRnVH, RU wRXOG KHU UHVSRnVH EH GLIIHUHnW

Rn GLIIHUHnW RFFDVLRnV?

A , FRXOG WHOO VKH wDVn'W KDSSy. 6KH -- VKH H[SUHVVHG

KHU XnKDSSLnHVV DERXW WKDW, DnG , WROG KHU, RXW RI FRXUWHVy, ,

wRXOG OHW KHU NnRw, EHFDXVH , NnHw VKH KDG WR EH VRPHwKDW

FORVH WR SLFN XS 0DVRn IRU EUHDVWIHHGLnJ DnG D nDS.

4 'LG VKH WHOO yRX wKy -- GLG VKH HYHU -- Rn Dny RI

WKRVH RFFDVLRnV GLG VKH HYHU WHOO yRX wKy VKH wDnWHG WR NnRw

wKHUH yRX wHUH JRLnJ?

A 6KH GLG nRW.

4 2n Dny RI WKRVH RFFDVLRnV GLG .DWLH WHOO yRX RI Dny

UHVWULFWLRnV, OLNH, SODFHV yRX wHUH nRW DOORwHG WR JR RU

DFWLYLWLHV yRX wHUH nRW DOORwHG WR GR RU DnyWKLnJ OLNH WKDW?

A 6KH VDLG VKH MXVW wDnWHG WR NnRw wKHUH KHU FKLOGUHn

DUH.

4 $nG wHUH WKHUH Dny RFFDVLRnV wKHn yRX GLG NnRw wKHUH

yRX wRXOG EH JRLnJ DW WKH WLPH WKDW VKH DVNHG yRX?

A 1R.

4 HRw wRXOG LW FRPH DERXW RnFH WKH H[FKDnJH wDV

FRPSOHWHG, DnG nRw LW'V yRX DnG 3HWHU DnG WKH NLGV, DnG ,

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JXHVV KLV PRP, KRw GLG LW JHW GHFLGHG wKHUH yRX wRXOG DOO JR

RU wKHUH 3HWHU wRXOG JR wLWK WKH NLGV?

A 2K, RnFH wH KDG HYHUyERGy WRJHWKHU, 3HWHU WRRN LnWR

FRnVLGHUDWLRn WKH wHDWKHU.

MR. CERV,: ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW.

THE :,T1ESS: HH DOwDyV LnYROYHG --

MR. CERV,: 6KH'V VSHFXODWLnJ DV WR wKDW WKH

SHWLWLRnHU WRRN LnWR DFFRXnW. HRw LV VKH -- LV VKH D PLnG

UHDGHU?

MR. MARGUL,S: YRXU HRnRU, ,'P WDNLnJ WKH

wLWnHVV WKURXJK HDFK DnG HYHUy -- , FDn DVN, -XGJH -- , FDn

DVN wKDW GLG KH VDy Rn WKLV GDy? :KDW GLG KH DVN? 'LG KH VDy

DnyWKLnJ DERXW WKH wHDWKHU WKLV GDy? 'LG KH VDy DnyWKLnJ

DERXW WKH KHDW? ,I yRX wDnW PH WR GR WKDW, -XGJH, wH FDn VWDy

KHUH XnWLO nH[W 7XHVGDy.

THE COURT: , -- ORRN, , -- 0U. CHUYL, ,'P JRLnJ

WR RYHUUXOH LW, EHFDXVH --

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, VKH'V VSHFXODWLnJ DV WR

wKDW'V Ln WKH PLnG RI 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy. ,W'V ULGLFXORXV.

$nG -XGJH, ,'P nRW WUyLnJ WR SURORnJ WKLV WULDO,

wKLFK LV JRLnJ WR ODVW WKH nH[W VHYHUDO PRnWKV. $W WKH HnG RI

WKH GDy, LW'V -- LW'V LnDSSURSULDWH IRU KHU WR VSHFXODWH wKDW

KH wDV WKLnNLnJ DW WKH WLPH. :HOO, KH wDV --

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH GLGn'W VDy wKDW KH wDV

WKLnNLnJ. 6KH VDLG KH WRRN LnWR FRnVLGHUDWLRn.

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MR. CERV,: HRw GRHV VKH NnRw WKDW?

MR. MARGUL,S: HRw DERXW , DVN KHU KRw VKH NnRwV

wKHWKHU KH WRRN LnWR FRnVLGHUDWLRn WKH wHDWKHU? , FDn GR

WKDW.

THE COURT: YRX FDn GR WKDW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: HRw DERXW , wLWKGUDw WKH

TXHVWLRn. ,'OO DVN LW D WKRXVDnG GLIIHUHnW wDyV, WKHn, WR GR

LW SURSHUOy. HRw LV WKDW?

THE COURT: 2NDy.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 , EHOLHYH Py TXHVWLRn wDV, KRw wDV LW GHFLGHG wKDW

DFWLYLWLHV 3HWHU wRXOG HnJDJH Ln wLWK WKH FKLOGUHn. /HW'V

VWDUW WKHUH. , GRn'W WKLnN yRX DnVwHUHG LW. HRw wRXOG LW

EH -- KRw wRXOG LW EHFRPH GHFLGHG wKDW DFWLYLWy RU DFWLYLWLHV

3HWHU wRXOG GR wLWK WKH NLGV? /HW'V VWDUW wLWK WKH ILUVW

YLVLW WKDW yRX VXSHUYLVHG, DnG , WKLnN yRX VDLG WKDW wDV Rn

6DWXUGDy, -XnH 30WK. /HW'V VWDUW wLWK WKDW RnH. 'R yRX

UHPHPEHU WKDW YLVLW?

A , wRXOG KDYH WR UHIHU WR WKH nRWHV, H[DFWOy wKHUH wH

wHUH.

4 'R yRX KDYH yRXU nRWHV wLWK yRX WRGDy?

A 7KHy'UH Ln Py EULHIFDVH, Ln WKH EDFN RI WKH URRP.

4 :RXOG ORRNLnJ DW yRXU nRWHV UHIUHVK yRXU UHFROOHFWLRn

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DV WR WKH HYHnWV RI -XnH 30WK'V YLVLWDWLRn?

A YHV.

MR. MARGUL,S: CRXOG , DVN WKDW HLWKHU , EH DEOH

WR KDnG WKHP WR KHU RU VKH FRPH RXW WR JHW WKHP?

THE COURT: $EVROXWHOy. YRX FDn KDnG WKHP WR

KHU, WR PDNH LW HDVLHU.

MR. MARGUL,S: :KHUH LV yRXU VWXII?

THE COURT: 2K, XnOHVV yRX'UH nRW FRPIRUWDEOH

wLWK WKDW. :RXOG yRX OLNH WR JHW WKHP yRXUVHOI?

THE :,T1ESS: 7KDW'V ILnH.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: , wRXOG OLNH WKDW PDUNHG.

(:KHrHupRn, 3HWiWiRnHr's 1, -HDnnH .rDWW's nRWHs,

wHrH WKHn PDrkHd fRr idHnWifiFDWiRn.)

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P JRLnJ WR PDUN WKHP IRU

LGHnWLILFDWLRn. ,'P RIIHULnJ 0U. CHUYL DnG 0U. CDIDUHOOD,

LI -- LI WKHy wDnW WR MXVW VWLSXODWH WKHP LnWR HYLGHnFH.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 0V. .UDWW, ,'P JRLnJ WR VKRw yRX wKDW'V EHHn PDUNHG

IRU LGHnWLILFDWLRn DV 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 1, wKLFK , WKLnN

KDV EHHn UHIHUUHG WR DV -HDnnH .UDWW'V nRWHV. , wDnW WR DVN

yRX WR WDNH D ORRN DW WKDW. $UH WKRVH, Ln IDFW, yRXU nRWHV?

A YHV, WKHy DUH.

4 $nG LI yRX wRXOG MXVW ORRN DW WKHP WR yRXUVHOI,

wLWKRXW UHDGLnJ WKHP RXW ORXG, DnG OHW PH NnRw wKHn yRX'UH

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GRnH. :H'UH WDONLnJ DERXW WKH ILUVW SHULRG RI DFFHVV Rn -XnH

30WK, 2018.

A 2NDy.

4 'RHV ORRNLnJ DW 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 1 UHIUHVK yRXU

UHFROOHFWLRn DV WR WKH HYHnWV RI -XnH 30WK, 2018?

A YHV.

4 'R yRX UHFDOO, VSHFLILFDOOy, wKDW DFWLYLWy 3HWHU DnG

WKH FKLOGUHn DnG yRX HnJDJHG Ln GXULnJ WKDW SHULRG RI DFFHVV?

A 6DWXUGDy wH wHUH DW WKH PDULnD, RU WKH VKLSV GRwnWRwn,

DnG 6XnGDy wH wHUH DW WKH ]RR.

4 'R yRX UHFDOO wKDW WKH wHDWKHU wDV Rn 6DWXUGDy, -XnH

30WK?

A ,W wDV KRW DnG VXnny.

4 HRW DnG VXnny; LV WKDW wKDW yRX VDLG?

A HRW DnG VXnny.

4 $nG GLG yRX KDYH Dny GLVFXVVLRnV wLWK 3HWHU -- VWULNH

WKDW.

6R WKH PDULnD GRwnWRwn yRX wHnW WR Rn 6DWXUGDy,

LV WKDW Dn LnGRRU DFWLYLWy RU RXWGRRU DFWLYLWy?

A :H wHUH Rn WKH VKLSV. 7KHUH'V D EXLOGLnJ GRwn WKHUH.

:H GLG ERWK.

4 7KHUH -- DnG GR yRX UHFDOO wKDW WKH wHDWKHU wDV WKDW

GDy? 'LG yRX VDy KRW DnG VXnny WKDW GDy?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. 'R yRX UHFDOO wKHWKHU 3HWHU PDGH Dny VWDWHPHnWV

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WR yRX DERXW WKH wHDWKHU Rn 6DWXUGDy, -XnH 30WK, 2018?

A HH wDV FRnFHUnHG WKDW LW wDV KRW DnG --

4 , XnGHUVWDnG WKDW -- LI yRX'UH VDyLnJ KH'V FRnFHUnHG,

LW'V Dn REMHFWLRnDEOH UHVSRnVH. 7KH TXHVWLRn ,'P DVNLnJ LV,

GLG KH VDy DnyWKLnJ WR yRX DERXW WKH wHDWKHU?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. :KDW GLG KH VDy?

A HH wDV MXVW FRnFHUnHG WKDW LW wDV VR KRW. HH

FKRVH -- KH GLG FKRRVH WKH PDULnD Rn 6DWXUGDy, EHFDXVH LW wDV

EUHH]LHU, DnG WKDW wDV WKH KRWWHU RI WKH WwR GDyV.

4 $nG GLG yRX REVHUYH wKHWKHU RU nRW 3HWHU DSSOLHG

VXnVFUHHn WR HLWKHU RI WKH NLGV Rn 6DWXUGDy, -XnH 30WK?

A 3HWHU DOwDyV DSSOLHG VXnVFUHHn WR WKH NLGV, nR PDWWHU

wKDW DFWLYLWy wH wHUH -- LI wH wHUH RXWVLGH, KH DSSOLHG

VXnVFUHHn.

4 ,V LW yRXU WHVWLPRny WKDW Rn HDFK RI WKH SHULRGV yRX

VXSHUYLVHG, HDFK DnG HYHUy RnH, yRX REVHUYHG 3HWHU DSSOyLnJ

VXnVFUHHn?

A $V Py VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV FDUULHG LnWR WKH IDOO WKHUH

wDV nR nHHG IRU VXnVFUHHn, EHFDXVH wH wHUHn'W nHFHVVDULOy

RXWVLGH, EXW Dny WLPH wH wHUH RXWVLGH, 3HWHU GLG DSSOy

VXnVFUHHn.

4 $nG Rn 6XnGDy, -XOy 1VW, WKH GDy yRX wHnW WR WKH ]RR,

GR yRX UHFDOO WKH wHDWKHU?

A ,W wDV KRW. ,W wDV VXnny. ,W wDV KXPLG, DnG LW wDV

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EUHH]y.

4 2n WKRVH WwR GDyV -- VR wH'UH WDONLnJ DERXW WKH ILUVW

wHHNHnG. YRX VDLG LW wDV KRW. 'LG -- GLG yRX REVHUYH wKHWKHU

RU nRW WKH NLGV GUDnN Dny wDWHU GXULnJ WKH YLVLW?

A 7KHy GLG, Rn ERWK GDyV.

4 $nG GLG yRX KDSSHn WR VHH wKHUH WKHy JRW WKH wDWHU?

A FURP WKHLU IDWKHU. HH DOwDyV WUDYHOHG wLWK D FRROHU

Ln WKH EDFN RI KLV FDU WKDW wDV -- WKDW KDG LFH, FROG

EHYHUDJHV, IRRG.

4 :KHn yRX VDy DOwDyV, GR yRX OLWHUDOOy PHDn HDFK YLVLW

WKDW yRX wHUH SUHVHnW IRU, 3HWHU KDG D FRROHU Ln WKH FDU?

A YHV. EYHUy WLPH. ,W wDV D wKLWH FRROHU, D wKLWH,

YHWL FRROHU.

4 $nG yRX VDw KLP JHW WKH wDWHU IURP WKHUH WKDW KH JDYH

WKH NLGV?

A HH GLG. .DWLH wRXOG DOVR SURYLGH wDWHU IRU -- DW

OHDVW RnH ERWWOH RI wDWHU IRU WKH NLGV.

4 $nG OHW'V MXVW VWDUW wLWK WKDW ILUVW wHHNHnG IRU nRw,

-XnH 30WK, 6DWXUGDy, DnG -XOy 1VW, 6XnGDy. 'LG yRX KDYH

RFFDVLRn WR VHH LI WKH NLGV GUDnN Dny wDWHU?

A YHV.

4 'LG yRX KDYH Dny RFFDVLRn WR REVHUYH 3HWHU WHOOLnJ

WKHP RU HnFRXUDJLnJ WKHP WR GULnN wDWHU?

A YHV.

4 2n ERWK RI WKRVH GDyV RU MXVW RnH RI WKRVH GDyV?

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A BRWK RI WKRVH GDyV.

4 $nG JHWWLnJ EDFN WR WKH VXnVFUHHn, wKLFK yRX VDLG HDFK

GDy GXULnJ WKH VXPPHU wDV DSSOLHG, wKR DSSOLHG WKH VXnVFUHHn

WR WKH NLGV? ,I yRX VDLG LW, IRUJLYH PH, EHFDXVH , GRn'W

UHFDOO. :KR GLG -- GLG 3HWHU SXW LW Rn RU GLG WKH NLGV SXW LW

Rn?

A 2OLYLD wRXOG KHOS KHU IDWKHU, DnG SXW LW Rn KHUVHOI.

3HWHU wRXOG JHW DUHDV WKDW VKH FRXOGn'W UHDFK, DnG 3HWHU

DSSOLHG 0DVRn'V VXnVFUHHn.

4 2n Dny RI WKH SHULRGV WKDW yRX VXSHUYLVHG, wDV WKHUH

HYHU Dn RFFDVLRn WKDW yRX REVHUYHG DnyRnH SXVKLnJ 2OLYLD? ,

GRn'W PHDn SXVKLnJ WKH VWUROOHU, , PHDn VKRYLnJ 2OLYLD.

A 1R.

4 2U 0DVRn?

A 1R.

4 :LWK UHJDUG WR WKH SHULRGV RI DFFHVV WKDW yRX

VXSHUYLVHG, wDV WKHUH HYHU Dn RFFDVLRn, D GDy, D 6DWXUGDy RU

6XnGDy, wKHUH yRX GLGn'W REVHUYH 3HWHU SURYLGLnJ wDWHU WR ERWK

FKLOGUHn?

A 1R.

4 6R JHWWLnJ EDFN WR WKH TXHVWLRn , wDV UHDOOy VHHNLnJ

WR DVN, FDn yRX WHOO WKH CRXUW, KRw GLG LW FRPH DERXW WKDW LW

wDV GHFLGHG wKDW DFWLYLWLHV wRXOG -- WKHy wRXOG SDUWLFLSDWH Ln

RnFH WKH H[FKDnJH KDG WDNHn SODFH?

A 3HWHU wRXOG DVN 2OLYLD wKDW VKH IHOW OLNH GRLnJ IRU

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WKH GDy, wKDW DFWLYLWy VKH wRXOG OLNH WR SDUWLFLSDWH Ln. HH

PDGH KHU SDUW RI WKH FRnYHUVDWLRn DnG SDUW RI WKH GHFLVLRn.

4 $nG wDV WKDW FRnVWDnW? 'LG yRX KDYH RFFDVLRn WR

REVHUYH WKLV Rn HYHUy SHULRG RI DFFHVV?

A YHV. HH DOwDyV DVNHG KHU wKDW VKH wDnWHG WR GR. HH

DOwDyV DVNHG KHU LI VKH wDV KXnJUy, wKHn VKH DWH ODVW, DOwDyV

HnJDJHG KHU Ln FRnYHUVDWLRn, DnG SDUWLFLSDWLnJ Ln wKHUH VKH

wRXOG OLNH WR JR.

4 $nG wHUH yRX DEOH -- ,'P nRW DVNLnJ yRX WR UHSHDW KHU

VWDWHPHnWV, EXW wHUH yRX DEOH WR KHDU KHU UHVSRnVHV?

A 2K, yHV. YHV.

4 2NDy. $nG EDVHG Rn yRXU REVHUYDWLRnV DnG KDYLnJ EHHn

SUHVHnW GXULnJ HDFK RI WKH YLVLWV, wRXOG 3HWHU DFTXLHVFH?

:RXOG KH GR wKDW 2OLYLD VXJJHVWHG VKH wDnWHG WR GR?

A 7KHy wRXOG FRPH WR D FRPSURPLVH.

4 :HUH WKHUH HYHU Dny DFWLYLWLHV WKDW VKH VXJJHVWHG VKH

SUHIHUUHG WKDW 3HWHU FKRVH nRW WR GR?

A 1R.

4 $W WKH H[FKDnJHV wKHn 3HWHU UHFHLYHG WKH FKLOGUHn, GLG

.DWLH HYHU WHOO yRX wKHWKHU VKH DOUHDGy SXW VXnVFUHHn Rn WKH

NLGV?

A 6KH PDy KDYH RnH WLPH.

4 $W WKH H[FKDnJHV, yRX VDLG WKH RWKHU GDy WKDW 3HWHU

DOwDyV DUULYHG ILUVW?

A YHV.

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4 $nG WKHn .DWLH wRXOG SXOO Ln, DnG yRX wRXOG WDNH WKH

NLGV HLWKHU RXW RI WKH FDU LI yRX wHUH UHWXUnLnJ WKHP, RU yRX

wRXOG wDON WR WKH FDU -- WR .DWLH'V FDU WR UHWULHYH WKH

FKLOGUHn. 'LG yRX KDYH RFFDVLRn WR REVHUYH .DWLH'V YHKLFOH?

A YHV.

4 'LG VKH GULYH WKH VDPH FDU HDFK WLPH, RU wHUH WKHUH

GLIIHUHnW YHKLFOHV?

A ,W wDV DOwDyV WKH VDPH FDU.

4 $nG wHUH yRX DEOH WR REVHUYH WKH FRnGLWLRn DnG

DSSHDUDnFH RI WKH FDU?

A YHV.

4 :KDW REVHUYDWLRnV, LI Dny, GLG yRX PDNH DERXW WKH

YHKLFOH?

A , FRXOG WHOO WKDW LW wDV D FDU WKDW FDUULHG FKLOGUHn,

EHFDXVH WKHUH wDV FKLOGUHn'V VXSSOLHV Ln WKH FDU, DnG , DOVR

nRWLFHG WKDW KHU WLUHV nHHGHG WR EH UHSODFHG.

4 :KDW GR yRX PHDn Ey WKDW? HRw wRXOG yRX GHVFULEH WKH

WLUHV?

A 7KH WLUHV wHUH EDOG.

MR. CERV,: 2EMHFWLRn, YRXU HRnRU. 6KH -- LV

VKH Dn H[SHUW DXWR PHFKDnLF, WUDLnHG Ln WKH ILHOG RI

LnVSHFWLnJ WLUHV? ,'G DVN WKDW WKDW EH VWULFNHn, YRXU HRnRU.

THE COURT: 2YHUUXOHG. , WKLnN DnyERGy WKDW'V D

ODySHUVRn FDn WHOO wKHWKHU RU nRW WLUHV DUH EDOG RU nRW.

MR. CERV,: 6KH WHVWLILHG WKDW WKH WLUHV nHHG WR

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21

EH FKDnJHG.

THE COURT: ,W'V wKDW VKH REVHUYHG, 0U. CHUYL.

2YHUUXOHG.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 :KHn yRX VDy yRX REVHUYHG WKH WLUHV EHLnJ EDOG, KRw

PDny EDOG WLUHV GLG yRX REVHUYH?

A FRXU.

4 'LG -- wHUH WKHUH Dny RFFDVLRnV -- GXULnJ WKHVH

SHULRGV RI YLVLWDWLRn WKDW yRX VXSHUYLVHG, wHUH WKHUH Dny

RFFDVLRnV WKDW HLWKHU SDUWy -- PHDnLnJ .DWLH RU 3HWHU -- VDLG

DnyWKLnJ nHJDWLYH DERXW yRX, WR yRX? 7R yRXU IDFH?

A YHV.

MR. CERV,: 2EMHFWLRn, YRXU HRnRU. 7KDW'V EHHn

DVNHG DnG DnVwHUHG.

MR. MARGUL,S: :HOO, , EHOLHYH --

THE COURT: $VNHG DnG DnVwHUHG wKHUH DnG wKHn?

MR. CERV,: /DVW WLPH wH wHUH KHUH, YRXU HRnRU.

MR. MARGUL,S: , DVNHG -- ODVW WLPH -- ODVW WLPH

, DVNHG DERXW GLVSDUDJLnJ FRPPHnWV DERXW WKH RWKHU.

THE COURT: 2YHUUXOHG. 6KH FDn DnVwHU.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 'LG 3HWHU HYHU PDNH Dny nHJDWLYH FRPPHnWV WR yRX Rn

Dny RI WKHVH RFFDVLRnV?

A 1R.

4 'LG .DWLH?

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A YHV.

4 $nG Rn KRw PDny VXFK RFFDVLRnV?

A $W OHDVW WKUHH.

4 $nG wHUH WKH FKLOGUHn SUHVHnW RU nRW SUHVHnW GXULnJ

WKRVH WKUHH RFFDVLRnV?

A 7KHy wHUH SUHVHnW.

4 $OO WKUHH WLPHV?

A YHV.

4 $nG GR yRX UHFDOO wKDW VKH VDLG WR yRX Rn WKHVH WKUHH

RFFDVLRnV?

A 6KH DFFXVHG PH RI OyLnJ. 6KH VDLG, DUH yRX JRLnJ WR

OLH Ln IURnW RI Py FKLOGUHn OLNH yRX GR DOO WKH WLPH?

4 :KDW HOVH?

A 6KH wRXOG DFFXVH PH RI OyLnJ WR KHU DERXW 3HWHU

FKDnJLnJ D GLDSHU RU nRW FKDnJLnJ D GLDSHU, FDOO PH D OLDU

EHFDXVH WKH FKLOGUHn wHUH GHKyGUDWHG RU nRW JLYHn SURSHU IRRG

RU wDWHU.

4 $nyWKLnJ HOVH WKDW yRX FDn UHFDOO?

A 1RW DW WKLV WLPH.

4 HDYH yRX HYHU VDLG DnyWKLnJ nHJDWLYH WR 3HWHU DERXW

.DWLH Ln WKH SUHVHnFH RI WKH FKLOGUHn?

A 1RW WKDW , UHFDOO.

4 HDYH yRX HYHU VDLG DnyWKLnJ WR .DWLH WKDW'V nHJDWLYH

DERXW 3HWHU Ln WKH SUHVHnFH RI WKH FKLOGUHn?


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4 'LG yRX HYHU WDNH Dny SLFWXUHV RI 3HWHU RU WKH

FKLOGUHn GXULnJ yRXU VXSHUYLVLRn VHUYLFHV?

A YHV.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KHVH DUH DOO WKH RnHV , H-PDLOHG

yRX. (HDndinJ.)

YRXU HRnRU, , KDYH D FRXSOH RI IROGHUV WKDW HDFK

FRnWDLn SKRWRJUDSKV. 0y LnWHnWLRn -- ,'P JRLnJ WR VKRw WKHP

WR CRXnVHO, wKLFK ,'YH DOUHDGy SURYLGHG WKHP WR WKHP, EXW Py

LnWHnWLRn LV, ,'P JRLnJ WR UHTXHVW WKDW WKHy EH UHFHLYHG Ln

HYLGHnFH, DnG WKHy'UH PDnLOD IROGHUV. 7KDW'V WKH wDy WKHy'YH

EHHn VHSDUDWHG. , wRXOG EH DVNLnJ WKHy EH PDUNHG Ln WKHLU

IROGHUV IRU HDVH IRU WKH CRXUW, XnOHVV VRPHERGy KDV D

SUHIHUHnFH, RWKHUwLVH.

,'P ILUVW DVNLnJ CRXnVHO, MRLnWOy VSHDNLnJ, LI

WKHy KDYH Dny REMHFWLRnV WR WKH ILUVW VHW RI SKRWRV EHLnJ

UHFHLYHG Ln HYLGHnFH.

THE COURT: 'R yRX wDnW WR -- , PHDn, LI yRX

wDnW WR GR WKLV TXLFNOy DnG HDVLOy, yRX FDn JR RII WKH UHFRUG

TXLFN.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: 7KHy FDn UHYLHw HDFK IROGHU.

MR. MARGUL,S: YHDK.

THE COURT: 1XPEHU -- DnG Rn WKH IROGHU, SXW KRw

PDny SLFWXUHV DUH Ln WKHUH --

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

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24

THE COURT: -- VR WKDW GRHVn'W JHW FRnIXVHG.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: $nG GR yRX wDnW WR HnWHU WKHP DOO

LnWR HYLGHnFH DV RnH?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: ,I WKHy -- yRX FDn VDy KRw PDny

IROGHUV DnG KRw PDny SLFWXUHV Ln HDFK IROGHU. ,V LW DOO KHU

YLVLW -- VR HDFK IROGHU FDn LGHnWLIy HDFK YLVLW, DnG WKHn MXVW

SXW WKHP DOO Ln?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: ,I WKDW GRHVn'W wRUN IRU HYHUyRnH,

wH'OO GR LW RnH Ey RnH.

MR. CAFARELLA: , KDYH nR REMHFWLRn.

THE COURT: 2NDy. 2II WKH UHFRUG.

('isFussiRn KHld Rff WKH rHFRrd.)

MR. CERV,: 0V. .UDWW WRRN DOO WKHVH SKRWRV?

MR. MARGUL,S: YHDK.

MR. CERV,: , PHDn, Rn WKH ILUVW WwR, , KDYH nR

REMHFWLRn. , -- , -- , DVVXPH LW wLOO EH WKH VDPH IRU DOO RI

WKHP, EXW ,'G OLNH WR UHYLHw WKHP ILUVW, SOHDVH.

THE COURT: 7KDW'V wKDW ,'P VDyLnJ. 'R yRX wDnW

WR JR RII WKH UHFRUG. 5HYLHw WKHP DOO. /HW'V LGHnWLIy HDFK

IROGHU DV HDFK YLVLW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 8P-KPP.

THE COURT: YRX FDn nXPEHU KRw PDny SLFWXUHV DUH

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Ln HDFK RnH, VR WKHy GRn'W JHW FRnIXVHG. ,GHnWLIy WKH IROGHU

DV, OLNH, $, B, C, ', E, DnG F, DnG Rn WKH EDFN RI WKH

SLFWXUHV, $, B, C.

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: 6R LI WKHy'UH PL[HG XS, WKHy FDn EH

SXW EDFN Ln WKH RULJLnDO IROGHU.

MR. MARGUL,S: 5LJKW.

THE COURT: 2II WKH UHFRUG.

('isFussiRn KHld Rff WKH rHFRrd.)

(:KHrHupRn, 3HWiWiRnHr's 2-5, fRldHrs FRnWDininJ

pKRWRJrDpKs, wHrH WKHn PDrkHd fRr idHnWifiFDWiRn.)

(:KHrHupRn, 3HWiWiRnHr's 2-5, wHrH WKHn rHFHivHd in

HvidHnFH.)

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 0V. .UDWW, ,'P JRLnJ WR VKRw yRX -- Ln WKH IROGHUV, ,

JXHVV -- ,'P JRLnJ WR VKRw yRX D IROGHU FRnWDLnLnJ SKRWRJUDSKV

PDUNHG DV 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 2 Ln HYLGHnFH, DnG ,'G OLNH yRX

WR ORRN DW WKH SKRWRV, SOHDVH.

A YHV.

4 0V. .UDWW, GR yRX UHFRJnL]H WKHVH SKRWRV?

A YHV, , GR.

4 :KR WRRN WKHVH SLFWXUHV?

A , GLG.

4 $nG wHUH WKHVH WDNHn GXULnJ WKH HLJKW YDULRXV wHHNHnGV

RI YLVLWDWLRn WKDW yRX'YH VXSHUYLVHG?

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26

A YHV, WKHy wHUH.

4 $nG ,'P MXVW JRLnJ WR EULHIOy VKRw HDFK RnH RI WKHP WR

yRX, RnH Ey RnH, DnG DVN yRX WR MXVW GHVFULEH wKDW'V GHSLFWHG

Ln WKH SKRWR, SOHDVH.

A 2NDy. ,n WKLV SLFWXUH, 3HWHU LV Ln WKH IURnW VHDW RI

D ERDW, GRwn DW WKH HDUERUCHnWHU, Ln WKH IURnW VHDW wLWK

2OLYLD. HLV -- , WKLnN LW'V KLV PRP Ln WKH EDFN, WKH SDGGOH

ERDW.

4 $nG WKH nH[W RnH?

A HDUERUCHnWHU, DJDLn. 2OLYLD ILUVW wHnW RXW Ln KHU Rwn

ERDW. 6KH JRW WLUHG DnG JRW Ln WKH ERDW wLWK 3HWHU DnG

5HJLnD.

4 $nG Ln ERWK RI WKRVH SLFWXUHV GRHV LW GHSLFW wKHWKHU

2OLYLD LV wHDULnJ D OLIH MDFNHW?

A YHV. 6KH KDV D VDIHWy YHVW Rn. YHV.

4 $ VDIHWy YHVW. $nG nH[W RnH?

A 7KLV SLFWXUH wDV WDNHn DW WKH 2XWHU HDUERU. 3HWHU LV

KROGLnJ RnWR 2OLYLD. 7KHy'UH MXVW ORRNLnJ LnWR WKH wDWHU.

7KLV SLFWXUH wDV DW WKH *Rw 6FKRRO, wKHUH 3HWHU

wHnW WR VFKRRO. HH'V DVVLVWLnJ 2OLYLD Ln PDNLnJ VXUH VKH

GRHVn'W IDOO JRLnJ XS WR WKH WRS SODWIRUP RI WKH VwLnJ VHW,

SODyJURXnG.

7KLV SLFWXUH LV 3HWHU DVVLVWLnJ 2OLYLD WR wDON

DFURVV WKLV VPDOO REVWDFOH FRXUVH Rn WKH VDPH SODyJURXnG, DW

WKH *Rw 6FKRRO.

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4 $nG GXULnJ yRXU VXSHUYLVLRn wKHn yRX wHnW WR WKH

SODyJURXnG, GLG -- GLG yRX KDYH RFFDVLRn WR REVHUYH 2OLYLD DnG

3HWHU Rn WKH VwLnJ VHW?

A YHV.

4 $nG GLG 2OLYLD VwLnJ Rn WKH VwLnJ VHW?

A 6KH nHHGHG VwLnJLnJ -- VKH GLGn'W NnRw KRw WR SXPS KHU

OHJV. 6KH MXVW wDV XnDEOH WR VwLnJ KHUVHOI, VR VKH DVNHG IRU

KHOS, DnG 3HWHU HnFRXUDJHG KHU WKDW VKH'V ROG HnRXJK; VKH

VKRXOG NnRw KRw WR VwLnJ, DnG VKH VDLG VKH GLG nRW.

4 'LG VKH HnG XS VwLnJLnJ?

A 1RW wLWKRXW DVVLVWDnFH. HHU JUDnGPRWKHU SXVKHG KHU Rn

WKH VwLnJ VR VKH FRXOG JHW PRPHnWXP WR JR EDFN DnG IRUWK, EXW

wKHn VKH VORwHG GRwn, VKH DOwDyV DVNHG IRU KHOS WR JHW EDFN

JRLnJ DJDLn.

4 BXW VKH GLG VwLnJ?

A 6KH GLG, yHV.

4 :LWK DVVLVWDnFH?

A :LWK DVVLVWDnFH.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV DOVR DW WKH *Rw 6FKRRO. 2OLYLD LV KDYLnJ IXn

Ln WKH wDWHU wLWK KHU GDG. 7KHy'UH MXVW wDONLnJ GRwn WR WKH

FUHHN.

MR. CERV,: ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW WR WKH

FKDUDFWHUL]DWLRn RI WKH WHVWLPRny. 7KH SKRWR VSHDNV IRU

LWVHOI. , PHDn, VKH VDLG VKH wDV KDYLnJ IXn. $JDLn, LW PDNHV

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28

KHU VSHFXODWH DV WR wKDW'V JRLnJ Rn Ln WKH FKLOG'V PLnG. 7KH

SKRWR VSHDNV IRU LWVHOI.

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR RYHUUXOH, 0U. CHUYL. ,

WKLnN VKH'V REVHUYLnJ wKDW VKH IHHOV DV WKRXJK VKH'V wDWFKLnJ,

wKLFK LV, WKHy'UH KDYLnJ IXn. 6KH FDn PDNH WKRVH

REVHUYDWLRnV.

MR. CERV,: $OO ULJKW.

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR RYHUUXOH.

MR. CERV,: 3OHDVH nRWH Py H[FHSWLRn.

THE COURT: 7KDnN yRX.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 1H[W RnH?

A , EHOLHYH WKLV RnH wDV DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV. :H

SXOOHG RYHU WR D WDNH -- wH GLG D ORRS DURXnG WKH SDUN, DnG

3HWHU wDV DSSOyLnJ VXnVFUHHn WR 2OLYLD'V VNLn.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DW WKH /HEDnHVH FHVWLYDO Rn 0DLn 6WUHHW.

2OLYLD wDV GULnNLnJ wDWHU DIWHU VKH JRW GRnH HDWLnJ.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DW CD]HnRYLD 3DUN. 3HWHU LV DVVLVWLnJ 2OLYLD

Rn WKH PRnNHy EDUV, VR VKH FDn JHW DFURVV IURP RnH VLGH WR WKH

RWKHU.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, FDn , MXVW DVN LI -- MXVW IRU

FODULWy SXUSRVHV, IRU WKH UHFRUG, FDn yRX DW OHDVW

LGHnWLIy -- ,'P DVVXPLnJ wH'UH VWLOO Rn 2. CDn WKHy -- FDn

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yRX MXVW VDy, yRX NnRw, Ln E[KLELW 2 Ln HYLGHnFH, yRX NnRw,

wKDW LV WKLV SKRWR? -XVW VR wH NnRw wKDW WKHVH SLFWXUHV -- LI

LW'V 2, 3, 4, RU 5?

MR. MARGUL,S: , GLG LW DW WKH EHJLnnLnJ. YRX

wDnW LW IRU HYHUy SKRWR?

MR. CERV,: YHDK.

THE COURT: YRX'UH Ln 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 2,

FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: YHDK, VWLOO.

THE COURT: :H'UH VWLOO Ln 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW

2. HH'V DVNLnJ KHU DERXW 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 2.

MR. CERV,: FDLU HnRXJK.

THE COURT: :KHn wH JR WR WKH nH[W -- KH'V MXVW

DVNLnJ wKHn yRX JR WR --

MR. MARGUL,S: , WKLnN KH wDnWV HYHUy SLFWXUH.

MR. CERV,: ,W --

THE COURT: ,I yRX'UH Ln --

MR. CERV,: $V ORnJ DV --

THE COURT: , --

MR. CERV,: $V ORnJ DV yRX'UH VWLOO Ln 2, WKDW'V

ILnH. -XVW VR yRX GHOLnHDWH wKHn yRX VwLWFK WR 3.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'OO GR WKDW.

MR. CERV,: 7KDW'V DOO ,'P DVNLnJ.

MR. MARGUL,S: , wLOO GR LW.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

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4 $nG WKH ODVW SKRWR Ln E[KLELW 2?

A 7KLV LV 3HWHU KROGLnJ 2OLYLD'V KDnG. :H'UH OHDYLnJ

:DOGHn *DOOHULD WR JR RXW WR WKH FDU, WR OHDYH IRU D

GHVWLnDWLRn.

THE COURT: 7KDW'V DOO VSHFLILF WR RnH wHHNHnG,

FRUUHFW, 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 2? 2U nR?

MR. MARGUL,S: 1RW nHFHVVDULOy.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KHy'UH nRW -- VKH LGHnWLILHG WKH

DFWLYLWy --

THE COURT: 7KH DFWLYLWLHV --

MR. MARGUL,S: -- GHSLFWHG Ln WKH SKRWR, EXW ,

GRn'W EHOLHYH WKHy DOO WRRN SODFH Rn WKH VDPH GDy.

THE COURT: 2NDy. 7KDW'V ILnH. , MXVW --

MR. MARGUL,S: 3DUGRn?

THE COURT: 7KDW'V RNDy. , wDV PDNLnJ WKH

DVVXPSWLRn WKH SLFWXUHV wHUH JRLnJ WR JR Ey wHHNHnG.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KHy'UH nRW.

THE COURT: 2NDy. 7KDW'V ILnH. 7KDW'V

3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 2. HRw PDny SLFWXUHV DUH Ln 3HWLWLRnHU'V

E[KLELW 2?

MR. MARGUL,S: 10.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 6KRwLnJ yRX wKDW KDV EHHn PDUNHG DV 3HWLWLRnHU'V

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31

E[KLELW 3 Ln HYLGHnFH, wKLFK LV D IROGHU FRnWDLnLnJ 24

SKRWRJUDSKV, DnG DJDLn, VDPH -- ,'G OLNH yRX WR ORRN DW HDFK

RI WKHP, DnG MXVW WHOO PH LI -- wKR WRRN WKH SLFWXUHV?

A , WRRN DOO WKHVH SKRWRJUDSKV.

4 ,'P JRLnJ WR VKRw yRX HDFK RnH, LnGLYLGXDOOy, DnG DVN

WKDW yRX SOHDVH LGHnWLIy wKDW'V GHSLFWHG Ln WKH SKRWRV.

7KHy'UH nRW Ln Dny SDUWLFXODU RUGHU.

A 2NDy. 7KLV LV D VFDYHnJHU KXnW DW WKH BXIIDOR

BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV.

4 $nG FDn yRX LGHnWLIy wKR LV Ln WKH SLFWXUH?

A YHV. 7KLV LV 3HWHU, 5HJLnD, DnG 2OLYLD.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV DOVR DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV wLWK 2OLYLD.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV DW WKH /HEDnHVH FHVWLYDO Rn 0DLn 6WUHHW.

1LFROH LV Ln WKLV SLFWXUH wLWK 2OLYLD, DnG WKHn SDUW RI

5HJLnD.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV SLFWXUH LV DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV Ln WKH

FKLOGUHn'V DUHD, wLWK 2OLYLD DnG 3HWHU.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV RnH LV DOVR DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV wLWK 2OLYLD,

5HJLnD, DnG 3HWHU.

4 $nG WKH SULRU RnH , MXVW VKRwHG yRX, FDn yRX MXVW

GHVFULEH WKH DFWLYLWy WKDW WKHy'UH GRLnJ Ln WKDW SLFWXUH?

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A 7KHy'UH SODyLnJ Ln D VDnGER[ LnVLGH WKH FKLOGUHn'V

SODy DUHD DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV CD]HnRYLD 3DUN, wLWK 2OLYLD Rn WKH VwLnJ VHW

wLWK KHU IDWKHU.

4 1H[W RnH?

A $OVR CD]HnRYLD 3DUN. 2OLYLD LV VSHDNLnJ LnWR WKH

XnGHUJURXnG PLFURSKRnH, DnG KHU IDWKHU LV Rn WKH RWKHU HnG,

EXW , GLG nRW -- , MXVW WRRN D SLFWXUH RI 2OLYLD. 6KH'V

HnJDJLnJ Ln D FRnYHUVDWLRn wLWK KHU IDWKHU WKURXJK WKDW

PLFURSKRnH.

4 'LG yRX SHUVRnDOOy SDUWLFLSDWH Ln VSHDNLnJ LnWR RnH RI

WKHVH?

A 1HYHU.

4 2NDy. 1H[W RnH?

A CD]HnRYLD 3DUN. 2OLYLD LV EHLnJ DVVLVWHG Ey 3HWHU WR

JR GRwn WKH SROH IURP WKH XSSHU SODWIRUP.

4 1H[W?

A 7KLV LV DW WKH *Rw 6FKRRO, wLWK 3HWHU DnG 2OLYLD

SODyLnJ Ln WKH FUHHN. , WKLnN WKHy wHUH ORRNLnJ IRU FUDyILVK.

4 'LG WKHy ILnG Dny, LI yRX NnRw?


4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV Dn DPXVHPHnW ULGH WKDW wDV DW WKH CODUHnFH

SXPSNLn IDUP, Ln CODUHnFH CHnWHU, Dn DPXVHPHnW ULGH wKHUH

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5HJLnD, 3HWHU, DnG 2OLYLD DUH Rn --

4 $ wKDW ULGH?

A $n DPXVHPHnW ULGH, WKH WHD FXS, RU VRPHWKLnJ OLNH WKH

WHD FXS.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV 2OLYLD IDFLnJ D SXPSNLn Ln WKH EDFN RI 3HWHU'V

YHKLFOH WKDW VKH JRW DW WKH SXPSNLn IDUP Ln CODUHnFH.

4 'LG yRX REVHUYH 2OLYLD SLFN WKLV SXPSNLn KHUVHOI?

A 6KH wDV YHUy SDUWLFXODU. ,W WRRN KHU D YHUy ORnJ WLPH

WR SLFN WKH SHUIHFW SXPSNLn.

4 :DV WKLV WKH RnOy SXPSNLn, RU wHUH WKHUH PRUH SXPSNLnV

WKDW VKH SLFNHG?

A , NnRw WKHUH wDV DnRWKHU RnH IRU 0DVRn. 6KH SLFNHG

RXW RnH IRU 0DVRn.

4 $nG DW WKH HnG RI WKH DFFHVV SHULRG, wKDW, LI

DnyWKLnJ, GLG yRX REVHUYH 2OLYLD GR wLWK WKH SXPSNLn?

A , EHOLHYH VKH WRRN LW KRPH.

4 6R VKH NHSW LW?

A YHDK.

4 1H[W RnH?

A , EHOLHYH WKLV RnH wDV DW 3DnHUD'V Rn :DOGHn, MXVW

DIWHU OXnFK. ,W wDV 3HWHU DnG 2OLYLD. 2OLYLD wDV WDNLnJ D

SLFWXUH RI KHUVHOI DnG 3HWHU wLWK 3HWHU'V SKRnH.

4 HDG WKHy HDWHn OXnFK WKHUH? ,V WKDW wKDW yRX VDLG?

A YHV.

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4 'LG 2OLYLD HDW?

A YHV, VKH GLG.

4 2n Dny RFFDVLRn WKDW yRX'YH EHHn wLWK 3HWHU DnG 2OLYLD

DW D UHVWDXUDnW, OHW'V VDy IRU OXnFK RU EUHDNIDVW, wKR GRHV

WKH RUGHULnJ IRU 2OLYLD?

A 2OLYLD RUGHUHG KHUVHOI, DnG LI VKH nHHGHG DVVLVWDnFH,

VKH wRXOG ORRN WRwDUGV KHU GDG IRU DVVLVWDnFH Ln RUGHULnJ.

4 :HUH WKHUH HYHU Dny RFFDVLRnV yRX REVHUYHG 3HWHU

SURYLGLnJ DVVLVWDnW WR 2OLYLD Ln RUGHULnJ KHU IRRG?

A YHV, EHFDXVH VKH wDnWHG IRRG.

4 2NDy. 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV SLFWXUH wDV WDNHn DW :HJPDnV. ,W wDV VXVKL WKDW

2OLYLD wDV HDWLnJ.

4 ,V WKHUH D UHVWDXUDnW Ln :HJPDnV?

A ,W'V MXVW WKHLU WDNHRXW, wKHUH WKHy SURYLGH WDEOHV IRU

SHRSOH WR VLW DW.

4 :KDW H[DFWOy LV 2OLYLD GRLnJ Ln WKDW SLFWXUH?

A 6KH'V JHWWLnJ LnVWUXFWLRnV IURP KHU IDWKHU Rn KRw WR

XVH WKH FKRSVWLFNV, XVLnJ WKH FKRSVWLFNV WR HDW KHU VXVKL

wLWK.

4 1H[W?

A 7KLV SLFWXUH wDV DOVR WDNHn DW -- LW wDV WDNHn DW 0DLn

6WUHHW, DW WKH SDUN wKHUH WKH wDWHUIDOO LV.

4 *OHn 3DUN?

A YHV. 5LJKW Rn 0DLn 6WUHHW Ln :LOOLDPVYLOOH. 7KHy'UH

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35

ORRNLnJ DW WKH wDWHU.

4 1H[W?

A 7KLV LV GRwn DW CDnDOVLGH. 5HJLnD LV Ln WKH SLFWXUH.

2OLYLD LV DWWHPSWLnJ WR KXOD KRRS. $OO WKUHH RI WKHP

SDUWLFLSDWHG Ln WKDW DFWLYLWy. , GLG nRW.

4 :DV 3HWHU DEOH WR KXOD KRRS?


4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV EDFN DW *OHn 3DUN. 7KHy'UH VHDUFKLnJ IRU

FUDyILVK Ln WKH FUHHN.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 2OLYLD DW D EORwXS VOLGH DW WKH /HEDnHVH FHVWLYDO.

4 1H[W?

A , WKLnN WKLV wDV 2OLYLD'V IDYRULWH SODFH, 7LIIW FDUP.

6KH wDV EORwLnJ EXEEOHV.

MR. CERV,: , wRXOG MXVW REMHFW WR WKH

FKDUDFWHUL]DWLRn RI 2OLYLD'V IDYRULWH SODFH.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. 8nOHVV VKH VDLG LW wDV

KHU IDYRULWH SODFH.

BY MR. MARGUL,S:

4 HRw GR yRX NnRw LW wDV 2OLYLD'V IDYRULWH SODFH?

A 6KH DVNHG WR JR EDFN WKHUH PXOWLSOH WLPHV.

4 7KLV RnH?

A 7KDW'V 7LIIW, yHV.

4 2NDy. 1H[W RnH?

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A 7KLV LV GRwn DW HDUERUCHnWHU -- 2XWHU HDUERU -- nRW

DPXVHPHnW SDUN, EXW SODyJURXnG.

4 1H[W?

A 2XWHU HDUERU, WKH VDnG SODy DUHD. ,W KDV 3HWHU,

2OLYLD, DnG 5HJLnD Ln WKH VDnG.

4 $nG WKH nH[W RnH?

A 3HWHU DnG 2OLYLD SODyLnJ Ln WKH VDnG WRJHWKHU.

4 6DPH SODFH?

A 6DPH SODFH, HDUERUCHnWHU.

4 1H[W?

A 7KLV wDV WKH SDLnW-yRXU-Rwn-SRWWHUy EXVLnHVV Ln

CODUHnFH, wLWK 3HWHU. 0DVRn wDV WKHUH.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV D ERDW ULGH WKDW 3HWHU, 2OLYLD, DnG , WRRN Rn

WKH ELNH WUROOHy GRwn DW CDnDOVLGH, RYHU WR WKH RSSRVLWH VLGH,

wKHUH WKHy WDNH SHRSOH WKDW wDnW WR JR Rn D ELNH WRXU RU MXVW

wDON DURXnG. ,W JRHV Rn FXKUPDnn BRXOHYDUG.

4 YRX'UH UHIHUULnJ WR D ERDW?

A ,W wDV Rn D ERDW, D ELFyFOH IHUUy.

4 7KLV wDV Rn D ERDW?

A YHV.

4 YRX VDLG WUROOHy.

A 0y DSRORJLHV. ,W wDV D IHUUy.

4 $nG WKH ODVW RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DW WKH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV. 2OLYLD GUHw D

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KHDUW, DnG VKH wURWH DW WKH WRS RI LW, PH DnG Py EURWKHU, DnG

WKHUH'V HLWKHU D FDW RU D GRJ Ln WKH SKRWRJUDSK wLWK -- LnVLGH

WKH KHDUW wKHUH VKH GUHw SLFWXUHV RI KHU DnG KHU EURWKHU.

4 7KDW wDV WDNHn wKHUH?

A , EHOLHYH BRWDnLFDO *DUGHnV. 0Dy , VHH LW, SOHDVH? ,

EHOLHYH WKLV wDV DW WKH /HEDnHVH FHVWLYDO.

4 6KRwLnJ yRX wKDW KDV EHHn PDUNHG Ln HYLGHnFH DV

3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 4, wKLFK FRnVLVWV RI IRXU SKRWRJUDSKV,

,'G OLNH WR VKRw yRX WKH IRXU, DnG ILUVW DVN LI yRX FRXOG WHOO

PH wKR WRRN WKRVH.

A , GLG.

4 6KRwLnJ yRX WKHP RnH Ey RnH, FDn yRX WHOO PH wKDW'V

GHSLFWHG Ln WKH SKRWRV?

A 7KLV wDV DW :KROH FRRGV. 3HWHU LV IHHGLnJ 0DVRn VRPH

VTXHH]DEOH yRJXUW DnG SXIIV.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV RnH wDV DOVR DW :KROH FRRGV. 0DVRn LV IHHGLnJ

3HWHU VRPH yRJXUW Rn D VSRRn.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV RnH LV DOVR DW :KROH FRRGV. 0DVRn LV IHHGLnJ

KLPVHOI yRJXUW, DnG 3HWHU LV REVHUYLnJ KLP wKLOH 0DVRn VLWV Rn

KLV ODS.

4 $nG WKH ODVW RnH?

A 7KLV LV 3HWHU FKDnJLnJ 0DVRn'V GLDSHU.

4 'R yRX NnRw wKHUH WKDW WRRN SODFH?

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38

A , GRn'W ULJKW nRw. 7KLV LV WKH RnOy wHHNHnG WKDW

3HWHU KDG D GLIIHUHnW YHKLFOH. ,W wDV Rn WKDW wHHNHnG. HLV

LnWHULRU LV EODFN, DnG WKDW'V WDn.

4 $nG Rn WKLV RFFDVLRn, wHUH yRX SUHVHnW GXULnJ WKH

HnWLUH GLDSHU FKDnJLnJ DFWLYLWy?

A , wDV, EXW , GLGn'W SHHN.

4 $nG EDVHG Rn yRXU REVHUYDWLRnV, wDV 3HWHU DEOH WR

VXFFHVVIXOOy FKDnJH WKH GLDSHU?

A YHV.

4 $nG EDVHG Rn yRXU REVHUYDWLRnV, wDV WKH nHw GLDSHU SXW

Rn SURSHUOy?

A YHV. FURP Py YDnWDJH SRLnW, yHV.

4 /DVW RnH LV 3HWLWLRnHU'V E[KLELW 5, Ln HYLGHnFH, wKLFK

FRnWDLnV 10 SKRWRJUDSKV. ,'G OLNH WR DVN yRX WR ORRN DW WKHP

DOO, ILUVW, DnG WKHn WHOO PH wKR WRRN WKHP.

A , WRRN DOO RI WKRVH.

4 $nG VKRwLnJ yRX WKH ILUVW RnH, wRXOG yRX WHOO PH wKDW

WKDW -- wKDW'V GHSLFWHG Ln WKDW SKRWR?

A 7KLV LV DW :KROH FRRGV. 3HWHU LV DVVLVWLnJ 0DVRn Rn

wDONLnJ.

4 ,V 0DVRn DEOH WR wDON? *HnHUDOOy, GRHV KH wDON DV D

EDEy?

A , EHOLHYH KH'V MXVW EHJLnnLnJ WR wDON.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DOVR DW :KROH FRRGV. 3HWHU OHW JR RI 0DVRn,

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DnG 0DVRn wDONHG WR 3HWHU wLWKRXW WKH WwR RI WKHP WRXFKLnJ.

HH WRRN WwR RU WKUHH VWHSV WRwDUGV KLV IDWKHU.

4 1H[W RnH?

A $OVR DW :KROH FRRGV. 0DVRn LV VLWWLnJ Rn 3HWHU'V ODS

GXULnJ WKH IHHGLnJ.

4 1H[W?

A 7KLV RnH wDV Ln EDVW $XURUD, DW WKH OLEUDUy. 0DVRn

wDV WXUnLnJ SDJHV RI D ERRN.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV RnH wDV DW WKH SRWWHUy EXVLnHVV Ln CODUHnFH.

2OLYLD wDV SDLnWLnJ D PXJ. 3HWHU wDV HnJDJHG wLWK 0DVRn,

IHHGLnJ KLP SXIIV.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DOVR DW WKH SRWWHUy EXVLnHVV. 0DVRn LV

JUDEELnJ SXIIV RXW RI 3HWHU'V KDnG WR HDW.

4 1H[W?

A $OVR DW WKH SRWWHUy EXVLnHVV. 3HWHU LV wDWFKLnJ wKDW

2OLYLD LV GRLnJ DFURVV WKH WDEOH, SDLnWLnJ, DnG WKLV LV 0DVRn

DOVR ORRNLnJ Ln WKH VDPH GLUHFWLRn, DnG 0DVRn KDG D WRy Ln KLV

ODS.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV wDV DW WKH 2XWHU HDUERU, DW WKH

VXEPDULnH -- wKHUH WKH VXEPDULnHV DUH, GRwnWRwn.

4 1H[W RnH?

A 7KLV LV WKH VSODVK SDG DW CD]HnRYLD 3DUN. 2OLYLD LV

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KROGLnJ 0DVRn, wDWFKLnJ WKH VSULnNOHUV.

4 CDn yRX WHOO PH wKDW D VSODVK SDG LV, EHFDXVH , GRn'W

NnRw?

A ,W LV wKHUH wDWHU FRPHV RXW. ,W DSSHDUV WR EH RXW RI

WKH JURXnG. ,W'V nRW D SRRO. , WKLnN LW'V VDIHU. 7KHUH'V nR

OLIHJXDUG WKHUH. 7KH wDWHU FRPHV XS VSRUDGLFDOOy RXW RI

UDnGRP KROHV. 7KH NLGV UXn DURXnG DnG VFUHDP, EHFDXVH WKHy

WUy WR JHW WR WKH wDWHU. 7KH wDWHU IRUPV Dn DUFK, DnG WKHy

UXn WKURXJK WKH DUFK.

4 HRw GHHS LV WKH wDWHU WKDW'V GHSLFWHG Ln WKDW SLFWXUH?

A 7KHUH LV nR -- LW'V MXVW D FRnFUHWH SDG, DOWKRXJK

wDWHU JRHV WR WKH FHnWHU DnG UHFyFOHV DnG VKRRWV EDFN XS

DJDLn. ,W'V DOPRVW OLNH D wDWHU IRXnWDLn wLWKRXW D SRRO RI

wDWHU.

4 , VHH. $nG WKH ODVW RnH?

A 7KLV LV DOVR DW WKH VSODVK SDG DW CD]HnRYLD 3DUN.

3HWHU LV VXSSRUWLnJ 0DVRn DnG MXVW HnFRXUDJLnJ KLP WR wDON,

DnG LW ORRNV OLNH 2OLYLD wDnWV WR SODy wLWK KLP.

MR. MARGUL,S: 1R RWKHU TXHVWLRnV IRU WKLV

wLWnHVV, -XGJH.

THE COURT: CDn wH WDNH D 10-PLnXWH EUHDN, JLYH

D FKDnFH WR JR WR WKH EDWKURRP DnG VWXII?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR DVN HYHUyERGy WR H[LW

WKH FRXUWURRP. YRX JXyV FDn OHDYH yRXU VWXII WKHUH.

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11/26/18 - CX 2F -EA11E KRATT BY CERVI


41

(:KHrHupRn, D rHFHss wDs WDkHn DW 3:23 p.P. Dnd

prRFHHdinJs rHFRPPHnFHd DW 3:43 p.P.)

THE COURT: BDFN Rn WKH UHFRUG. -XVW EHIRUH wH

JHW VWDUWHG, wH'UH JRLnJ WR JR XnWLO 4:30 WRGDy. :H MXVW

SLFNHG D IHw PRUH KHDULnJ GDWHV. 7KH IROORwLnJ KHDULnJ GDWHV

DUH JRLnJ WR EH 'HFHPEHU 6 DW 1:30; -DnXDUy 18WK DW 1:30;

FHEUXDUy 8WK DW 1:30; DnG FHEUXDUy 15WK DW 1:30.

2NDy. , EHOLHYH yRX MXVW FRnFOXGHG wLWK

0V. .UDWW, FRUUHFW, 0U. 0DUJXOLV?

MR. MARGUL,S: CRUUHFW.

THE COURT: 0U. CHUYL, LW'V yRXU WLPH.

MR. CERV,: 7KDnNV, YRXU HRnRU.

CROSS-EXAM,1AT,O1 BY MR. CERV,:

4 $OO ULJKW. *RRG DIWHUnRRn, 0V. .UDWW. HRw DUH yRX?

A FLnH, 0U. CHUYL. 7KDnN yRX.

4 0V. .UDWW, OHW'V VWDUW wLWK VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWDWLRn.

YRX'YH WHVWLILHG yRX KDYH nR IRUPDO WUDLnLnJ DV LW SHUWDLnV WR

KRw WR SURYLGH IRU D VXSHUYLVHG YLVLW, FRUUHFW?

A CRUUHFW.

4 2NDy. $nG yRX -- KDYH yRX HYHU UHDG Dny MRXUnDOV RU

Dny WUHDWLVHV RU DnyWKLnJ wKHUH WKHy JDYH yRX JXLGDnFH DV WR

KRw WR FRnGXFW VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV?

A YHV.

4 $UH WKHUH DFFHSWHG SUDFWLFHV DV LW SHUWDLnV WR

VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWDWLRn?

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A YRX'G KDYH WR --

4 2NDy.

A -- EH PRUH VSHFLILF.

4 $UH WKHUH DFFHSWHG JXLGHOLnHV WKDW DUH VHW IRUWK Ln

Dny WUHDWLVHV RU RWKHUwLVH?

A ,W'V WR NHHS WKH FKLOGUHn VDIH, NnRw wKHUH WKH SURSHU

DXWKRULWLHV DUH, KDYH D FHOO SKRnH wLWK yRX RU VRPH wDy WR

FRnWDFW HPHUJHnFy RIILFLDOV, DnG wULWH DnG WDNH nRWH Rn WKH

YLVLW, EH DEOH WR GRFXPHnW wKDW RFFXUV.

4 2NDy. $OO ULJKW. 6R OHW'V JR WR GRFXPHnWLnJ

YLVLWDWLRn. :LWK UHJDUGV WR VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV, yRX'UH

VXSSRVHG WR REVHUYH WKH SDUWy EHLnJ VXSHUYLVHG; LV WKDW

DFFXUDWH?

A YHV.

4 $nG yRX'UH DOVR VXSSRVHG WR REVHUYH KLV LnWHUDFWLRn

wLWK WKH FKLOG RU FKLOGUHn, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. $nG wLWK WKDW, WKH nRWHV WKDW yRX WDNH VKRXOG

UHIOHFW WKH REVHUYDWLRnV RI WKH SDUWy DnG WKH FKLOG, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 1Rw, wLWK WKDW, , DVVXPH WKDW yRX VKRXOG nRWH Dny

SUREOHPV wLWK WKH YLVLWDWLRn DV LW SHUWDLnV WR WKH VXSHUYLVHG

SDUWy DnG WKH FKLOG RU FKLOGUHn, ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 YRX VKRXOG nRWH WKH LnWHUDFWLRn EHWwHHn WKH VXSHUYLVHG

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43

SDUWy DnG WKH FKLOG RU FKLOGUHn, FRUUHFW?

A ,I WKHUH wDV Dny, yHV.

4 6R yRX VKRXOG DOVR nRWH LI WKHUH wDV D SRVLWLYH

LnWHUDFWLRn EHWwHHn WKH FKLOGUHn DnG WKH VXSHUYLVHG SDUWy,

ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. EVVHnWLDOOy, yRXU nRWHV IURP WKH YLVLW

wRXOG HnWDLO SRVLWLYH DnG nHJDWLYH REVHUYDWLRnV RI WKH

VXSHUYLVHG SDUWy GXULnJ WKHLU DFFHVV SHULRG; LV WKDW DFFXUDWH?

A 7R D GHJUHH.

4 7KH wKROH SXUSRVH RI yRX VXSHUYLVLnJ WKH YLVLWDWLRn LV

WR REVHUYH WKH VXSHUYLVHG SDUWy, WKRXJK, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 YRX'UH nRW WKHUH WR REVHUYH DnyRnH HOVH, DUH yRX?

A 1R.

4 6R yRXU UROH DV VXSHUYLVRU LV YHUy VLPSOH; REVHUYH WKH

VXSHUYLVHG SDUWy DnG KLV LnWHUDFWLRn wLWK WKH FKLOGUHn,

FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 3URYLGH IRU WKH VDIHWy RI WKRVH FKLOGUHn, FRUUHFW?

A CRUUHFW.

4 $OO ULJKW. YHW, Ln yRXU nRWHV -- LI yRX wDnW WR WDNH

D ORRN DW yRXU nRWHV -- yRXU nRWHV UHIOHFW DOPRVW HnWLUHOy

yRXU REVHUYDWLRnV RI 0V. 5LIRUG, GRn'W WKHy?

A 1RW WR Py NnRwOHGJH.

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44

4 :HOO, OHW'V WDNH D ORRN DW WKHP, VKDOO wH?

A 6XUH.

4 'R yRX KDYH yRXU nRWHV KDnGy?

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW, YRXU HRnRU.

7KH nRWHV DUHn'W Ln HYLGHnFH. :H --

MR. CERV,: :HOO --

MR. MARGUL,S: E[FXVH PH. :H FDn'W VWDUW

FKRSSLnJ DwDy DW KHU nRWHV, LI WKHy'UH nRW Ln HYLGHnFH.

7KHy'UH MXVW KHU nRWHV.

THE COURT: 7KHy DUH MXVW XVHG IRU UHIUHVKLnJ

KHU UHFROOHFWLRn.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,n IDFW, , RIIHUHG CRXnVHO,

WwLFH, WKLV DIWHUnRRn, Dn RSSRUWXnLWy, LI KH FKRVH WR GR VR,

WR VWLSXODWH WKHP LnWR HYLGHnFH IRU HDVH Ln DOORwLnJ KHU WR

UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn, DnG WKHUH wDV nR UHVSRnVH, VR WKHy

wHUH nRW PRYHG LnWR HYLGHnFH. 6R DV IDU DV ,'P FRnFHUnHG,

WKHy'UH RII OLPLWV, XnOHVV WKHy'UH IRU UHIUHVKLnJ D

UHFROOHFWLRn, wKLFK yRX GRn'W UHDOOy nHHG WR XVXDOOy GR Rn

FURVV-H[DPLnDWLRn. , VDy KHU nRWHV DUH RII OLPLWV.

MR. CERV,: , wRXOG GLVDJUHH, -XGJH. ,I nHHG

EH, ,'OO H[WUDSRODWH.

THE COURT: :HOO, DW WKLV SRLnW, , DJUHH wLWK

0U. CHUYL. 7KHy'UH nRW LnWR HYLGHnFH DnG --

MR. MARGUL,S: YRX PHDn 0U. 0DUJXOLV?

THE COURT: ,'P VRUUy, 0U. 0DUJXOLV. 'LG , VDy

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45

0U. CHUYL?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6RUUy.

THE COURT: 6RUUy. 7KHy wHUH XVHG WR UHIUHVK

KHU UHFROOHFWLRn IRU RnH SDUW RI KHU WHVWLPRny, VR WKHy'UH nRW

LnWR HYLGHnFH; WKHUHIRUH, , GRn'W NnRw KRw yRX'UH JRLnJ WR XVH

WKHP WR FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , WKLnN , FHUWDLnOy FDn. ,I

WKHUH'V Dny LnFRnVLVWHnFLHV wLWKLn KHU WHVWLPRny, , FDn

LPSHDFK WKH wLWnHVV wLWK KHU nRWHV. 7KHUH'V nR TXHVWLRn.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,W'V nRW D SULRU VwRUn VWDWHPHnW.

6KH wDVn'W XnGHU RDWK wKHn VKH PDGH WKHP, DnG WKHy'UH nRW Ln

HYLGHnFH, VR WKHy UHSUHVHnW nRWKLnJ PRUH WKDn, SRVVLEOy, D

FRnWHPSRUDnHRXV H[SUHVVLRn RI KHU VWDWH RI PLnG DW HDFK YLVLW.

, PDLnWDLn Py VDPH REMHFWLRn. 7KHy'UH RII OLPLWV.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, wLWK UHJDUGV WR LPSHDFKPHnW,

,'G DVN CRXnVHO WR UHIUHVK KLV UHFROOHFWLRn, nRnH RI wKLFK,

wKDW KH UHFLWHG, LV UHODWHG WR Dn LPSHDFKPHnW.

,n Dny HYHnW, YRXU HRnRU, , FHUWDLnOy FDn

LPSHDFK KHU wLWK D SULRU VWDWHPHnW VKH PDGH. ,W GRHV nRW nHHG

WR EH D FHUWLILHG RU VWDWHPHnW WKDW LV XnGHU RDWK. 7KDW LV

nRW D UHTXLUHPHnW. $ SULRU VWDWHPHnW WKDW wDV PDGH Ey WKLV

wLWnHVV WKDW LV LnFRnVLVWHnW wLWK KHU FXUUHnW WHVWLPRny LV

VXIILFLHnW, DnG , EHOLHYH KHU nRWHV wRXOG UHIOHFW WKDW.

THE COURT: HHU nRWHV DUHn'W LnWR HYLGHnFH IRU

PH WR UHYLHw. ,'P nRW UHYLHwLnJ WKHP. 6Dy wH UHVROYH WKLV

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46

PDWWHU WRGDy. 7KHy'UH nRW LnWR HYLGHnFH. , wRXOGn'W EH

UHYLHwLnJ WKHP WR wULWH D GHFLVLRn. 7KHy'UH nRW Ln HYLGHnFH

ULJKW nRw. HRw GR yRX LPSHDFK KHU wLWK WKHP LI WKHy'UH nRW Ln

HYLGHnFH?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH KDVn'W VDLG DnyWKLnJ WR

LPSHDFK yHW.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, wLWK UHJDUG WR -- VKH MXVW

WHVWLILHG, -XGJH, WKDW WKH -- WKH nRWHV WKDW VKH PDGH -- ,

DVNHG KHU, , VDLG, LV LW WUXH WKDW PRVW RI WKHVH nRWHV UHIHU

WR REVHUYDWLRnV RI WKH UHVSRnGHnW, 0V. 5LIRUG, DnG nRW

WKH -- WKH VXSHUYLVHG SDUWy. $nG VKH VDLG nR, WKDW'V nRW

DFFXUDWH, VR , WKLnN DW WKLV SRLnW, -XGJH, , FHUWDLnOy FDn XVH

KHU nRWHV DJDLnVW KHU.

MR. MARGUL,S: BXW KHU nRWHV, -XGJH, KDYH ]HUR

wHLJKW. 7KHy'UH nRW Ln HYLGHnFH. 7KH CRXUW LV nRW UHOyLnJ Rn

KHU nRWHV WR PDNH Dny GLVSRVLWLYH UXOLnJ Ln WKLV FDVH.

THE COURT: , GRn'W GLVDJUHH.

0U. CDIDUHOOD, GR yRX KDYH Dny LnSXW Rn WKLV?

MR. CAFARELLA: , JXHVV 0U. CHUYL HODERUDWLnJ Rn

wKDW KH wDV LnWHnGLnJ WR LPSHDFK wLWK UHJDUGV WR 0V. .UDWW

GLVDJUHHLnJ WKDW WKH PDMRULWy RI KHU nRWHV KDG WR GR wLWK

0V. 5LIRUG, , GRn'W EHOLHYH WKDW'V LPSHDFKDEOH, -XGJH. 6KH'V

VWDWLnJ WKDW VKH GRHVn'W EHOLHYH WKH PDMRULWy RI KHU nRWHV

wHUH UHYROYLnJ DURXnG 0V. 5LIRUG. ,W'V nRW LPSHDFKLnJ Dn

LnFRUUHFW VWDWHPHnW RU OLH RU VRPH RWKHU IUDXGXOHnW VWDWHPHnW

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47

Ln IURnW RI WKH CRXUW, VR , GRn'W EHOLHYH WKDW'V Dn

LPSHDFKDEOH VWDWHPHnW.

THE COURT: 0U. CHUYL, , KDYH WR DJUHH. $W WKLV

SRLnW --


THE COURT: -- ,'P JRLnJ WR VXVWDLn WKH

REMHFWLRn.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , FDn JR RYHU WKH nRWHV

LnGLYLGXDOOy, WKHn. , FDn JR RYHU DnG DVN KHU DERXW WKHP

LnGLYLGXDOOy.

MR. MARGUL,S: 1Rw --

BY MR. CERV,:

4 /HW PH EDFN XS IRU RnH VHFRnG. 0V. .UDWW, KRw PXFK

wHUH yRX SDLG WR GR -- Ln WRWDO, WR GR WKH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV

IRU 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy?

A , GRn'W NnRw KRw PXFK, Ln WRWDO, EXW LW wDV $75 Dn

KRXU.

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG yRX GLG VL[ KRXUV SHU YLVLW, DnG LW

wRXOG KDYH EHHn D 6DWXUGDy DnG 6XnGDy, FRUUHFW?

A CRUUHFW.

4 , WKLnN yRX WHVWLILHG WKHUH wHUH KRw PDny YLVLWV?

A , WKRXJKW WKHUH wDV 16.

4 16. $75 Dn KRXU, WLPHV VL[ KRXUV HDFK GDy, ULJKW? 6R

WKH -- OHW PH JHW RXW Py FDOFXODWRU. HRw PXFK wHUH yRX SDLG

SHU GDy? 'R yRX UHFDOO WKDW?

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48

A , JRW RnH -- , UHFHLYHG D PRnHy RUGHU IRU $900 Rn

6DWXUGDy, DnG WKDW FRYHUHG 6DWXUGDy DnG 6XnGDy.

4 $OO ULJKW. 6R $900 IRU HDFK wHHNHnG. YRX VDLG yRX

GLG 16 wHHNHnGV?

A 1R, HLJKW.

4 ELJKW wHHNHnGV. $OO ULJKW. 6R HLJKW wHHNHnGV,

WLPHV -- VR yRX wHUH SDLG DERXW $7,200 WR GR WKHVH

YLVLWDWLRnV, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 6R RYHU $7,000 WKDW yRX wHUH SDLG, wHUH yRX SDLG WKDW

Ey 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy?

A YHV.

4 'LG KH JLYH yRX FDVK?

A 1R.

4 1R? $OO ULJKW. $nG WKH WHVWLPRny WKDW yRX'UH

SURYLGLnJ KHUH Rn EHKDOI RI 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy, KRw PXFK GLG yRX

FKDUJH KLP IRU WKDW?

A , KDYH nRW -- , KDYHn'W VXEPLWWHG D ELOO.

4 $OO ULJKW. :HOO, KRw PXFK DUH yRX FKDUJLnJ SHU KRXU

WR WHVWLIy KHUH?

A 7KLV -- WKH VDPH UDWH, $75.

4 6R $75 Dn KRXU, VR -- DnG KRw PDny KRXUV wHUH yRX KHUH

ODVW DSSHDUDnFH?

A $SSUR[LPDWHOy, IRXU.

4 $ERXW IRXU. 6R WKDW'V, wKDW, $300 yRXU ELOO wLOO EH

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49

IRU WKH ODVW DSSHDUDnFH? ,V WKDW D yHV?

A 0DyEH. YHV.

4 5RXJKOy?

A YHV.

4 'LG yRX DOVR PHHW wLWK KLV DWWRUnHy, 0U. 0DUJXOLV, WR

SUHSDUH IRU yRXU WHVWLPRny KHUH WRGDy?

A , GLG.

4 2NDy. HRw ORnJ GLG yRX PHHW wLWK 0U. 0DUJXOLV WR

SUHSDUH yRXU WHVWLPRny?

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW WR WKH

UHOHYDnFH.

MR. CERV,: 2K, WKHUH'V nR REMHFWLRn WR WKDW,

-XGJH.

THE COURT: 2YHUUXOHG. ,'P JRLnJ WR OHW LW

KDSSHn.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH. , GLGn'W WKLnN LW wDV WKDW

IXnny, Ey WKH wDy.

THE :,T1ESS: $ERXW Dn KRXU.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 ,'P VRUUy, yRX SUHSDUHG Dn KRXU?

A YHV.

4 $nG GXULnJ WKDW KRXU, 0U. 0DUJXOLV SUHSDUHG yRX Rn KRw

WR WHVWLIy KHUH WRGDy?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn. 7KDW'V SDUW RI WULDO

SUHSDUDWLRn. 7KDW'V DWWRUnHy-FOLHnW SULYLOHJH --

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MR. CERV,: 6KH'V nRW yRXU FOLHnW.

MR. MARGUL,S: -- DWWRUnHy wRUN SURGXFW. 0y

WULDO SUHSDUDWLRn, wKDWHYHU ,'YH GRnH Ln SUHSDUDWLRn IRU D

WULDO, LI LW LnFOXGHV SUHSDULnJ D wLWnHVV, yRX FDn'W DVN WKH

wLWnHVV wKDW , WROG WKHP Ln SUHSDUDWLRn IRU WKHLU WULDO

WHVWLPRny.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG, 0U. CHUYL.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 6R yRX PHW wLWK 0U. 0DUJXOLV IRU DERXW Dn KRXU EHIRUH

WKH ILUVW WULDO GDWH; LV WKDW ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 $nG KH KHOSHG yRX SUHSDUH IRU WULDO, FRUUHFW?

A 1R.

4 ,'P VRUUy?

A 1R.

4 HH wHnW --

A ,'YH WHVWLILHG DW PDny WULDOV.

4 $OO ULJKW. 6R KH -- GXULnJ WKDW RnH KRXU, yRX

GLVFXVVHG wKDW yRXU WHVWLPRny wRXOG EH KHUH WRGDy, FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW. 6DPH

REMHFWLRn.

MR. CERV,: ,'P nRW --

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KH VDPH -- FDn , SOHDVH WDON?

MR. CERV,: 7KH --

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KH VXEVWDnFH RI Dny --

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MR. CERV,: CDOP GRwn.

MR. MARGUL,S: -- FRnYHUVDWLRnV , KDG wLWK Py

Rwn wLWnHVV LV RII OLPLWV.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, ,'P nRW DVNLnJ WKH VXEVWDnFH

RI WKH FRnYHUVDWLRn. ,'P MXVW DVNLnJ LI WKHy GLVFXVVHG wKDW

wRXOG EH WHVWLILHG WR KHUH WRGDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KDW'V DVNLnJ IRU WKH VXEVWDnFH

RI WKH FRnYHUVDWLRn WKDW , KDG wLWK WKH wLWnHVV.

THE COURT: HROG Rn. HROG Rn. 6XVWDLnHG WR

wKDW LW LV WKDW WKHy VSHFLILFDOOy WDONHG DERXW.

,I yRX'UH MXVW DVNLnJ, GLG KH SUHSDUH, WKDW'V D

yHV-RU-nR DnVwHU. 6KH GRHVn'W KDYH WR HODERUDWH Rn WKDW.

MR. CERV,: CRUUHFW, YRXU HRnRU.

'LG WKHy GLVFXVV wKDW wRXOG EH WHVWLILHG WR KHUH

WRGDy? 7KDW'V DOO.

THE :,T1ESS: YHV.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 6R EHIRUH WKLV WULDO GDWH, WKHn, GLG yRX DOVR PHHW

wLWK 0U. 0DUJXOLV WR SUHSDUH IRU yRXU WHVWLPRny WRGDy?

A 1R.

4 1R?

A 1R.

4 $OO ULJKW.

A , DUULYHG ODWH WRGDy.

4 YRX DUULYHG ODWH WRGDy. $OO ULJKW. 6R yRX SUHSDUHG

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wLWK KLP DERXW RnH KRXU IRU ERWK WULDO GDWHV?

MR. MARGUL,S: $VNHG DnG DnVwHUHG.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 2NDy. :DV WKHUH Dny RWKHU WLPHV WKDW yRX PHW wLWK

0U. 0DUJXOLV WR SUHSDUH IRU yRXU WHVWLPRny -- HLWKHU WRGDy RU

ODVW WULDO DSSHDUDnFH?

A 1R.

4 2NDy. :LWK WRGDy, yRX'UH EHLnJ SDLG $75 SHU KRXU.

HRw PDny KRXUV GR yRX KDYH KHUH WRGDy?

A 6R IDU , wRXOG VDy WKUHH DnG D KDOI.

4 7KUHH DnG D KDOI KRXUV. $OO ULJKW. 6R WRWDO, yRX

KDYH DERXW IRXU KRXUV IURP WKH ODVW WULDO GDWH, WKUHH DnG D

KDOI KRXUV WR WKLV -- DW WKLV SRLnW IRU yRXU WULDO WRGDy, Ln

DGGLWLRn WR Dn KRXU RXWVLGH WKDW; LV WKDW ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. 6R IDLU WR VDy yRX'OO SUREDEOy KDYH, DW OHDVW,

nLnH KRXUV WKDW yRX'OO EH SDLG IRU IRU WHVWLIyLnJ KHUH, Ln

WRWDO?

A 3HUKDSV. 0DWK LV nRW Py IRUWH.

4 $OO ULJKW. ,W'V -- LW'V D SUHWWy JRRG URXJK HVWLPDWH

DW WKLV SRLnW, FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: $VNHG DnG DnVwHUHG. 6KH VDLG VKH

GRHVn'W NnRw.

MR. CERV,: , --

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MR. CERV,: , wRXOG MXVW REMHFW WR KLV WRnH. ,

WKLnN KH'V D OLWWOH DnJUy.

,'OO wLWKGUDw WKDW, -XGJH.

1Rw -- VR yRX'UH JRLnJ WR PDNH DERXW $700 IRU

WHVWLIyLnJ Rn EHKDOI RI 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy KHUH, FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: $VNHG DnG DnVwHUHG.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. 0U. CHUYL, , JHW LW.

MR. MARGUL,S: CDn wH SOHDVH PRYH Rn?

THE COURT: 2NDy. , NnRw wKDW'V JRLnJ Rn KHUH.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH'V JHWWLnJ SDLG. 6KH'V

JHWWLnJ SDLG WR EH KHUH.

THE COURT: 2NDy. /HW'V PRYH Rn.

MR. CERV,: $OO ULJKW. YHV, YRXU HRnRU.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 1Rw, JHWWLnJ EDFN WR WKH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWDWLRn, yRX

PDGH nRWHV DV LW SHUWDLnV WR WKH YLVLWV WKDW RFFXUUHG,

FRUUHFW?

A YHV. 0y nRWHV DUH YHUy YDJXH, DnG , FDn'W UHFDOO D

WLPH Ln WKH ODVW WHn yHDUV WKDW ,'YH XVHG WKHP Ln WKLV

SDUWLFXODU VLWXDWLRn. 0y nRWHV DUH MXVW --

4 0V. .UDWW, LW wDV D yHV-RU-nR DnVwHU. 'LG yRX EULnJ

yRXU nRWHV KHUH WRGDy?

A , GLG.

4 2NDy. 9HUy JRRG. $nG yRXU nRWHV RXWOLnH VRPH RI WKH

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LVVXHV RU VRPH WKLnJV WKDW FDPH XS wLWK UHJDUGV WR WKH

YLVLWDWLRn wLWK 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy WKDW yRX wHUH SDLG IRU,

FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG wLWK UHJDUGV WR WKH nRWHV WKDW yRX

PDGH, WKHUH'V -- OHW'V VHH KHUH. /HW'V MXVW ORRN DW -XnH 30WK

DnG -XOy 1VW, 2018. 'R yRX UHFDOO WKH WKLnJV WKDW yRX nRWHG

WKDW 0LVV 5LIRUG wLOO FRPSODLn DERXW?

A , wRXOG KDYH WR ORRN DW Py nRWHV WR UHIUHVK Py PHPRUy.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P JRLnJ WR UHnHw Py

REMHFWLRn --


MR. MARGUL,S: -- -XGJH. 7KH VXEVWDnFH RI WKH

nRWHV, WKH GRFXPHnW WKDW DUH WKH nRWHV WKHPVHOYHV, DUH nRW Ln

HYLGHnFH. 7KHy'UH nRW Rn WULDO. 7KHy'UH nRW UHOHYDnW. 7KHy

KDYH ]HUR wHLJKW. :KHn wH ILnLVK WKLV WULDO VRPH GDy DnG wH

VXEPLW RXU VXPPDWLRnV WR YRXU HRnRU, wH'UH nRW JRLnJ WR EH

WDONLnJ DERXW KHU nRWHV, VR , GRn'W WKLnN WKHy'UH UHOHYDnW --

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , --

MR. MARGUL,S: -- DnG -- DnG LW'V

FURVV-H[DPLnDWLRn.

MR. CERV,: 7KDW'V FRUUHFW, YRXU HRnRU. , --

YRXU HRnRU, PDy , SOHDVH. 0U. 0DUJXOLV wHnW WKURXJK, ,

EHOLHYH, DERXW, Ln H[FHVV, RI WKUHH WR DOPRVW IRXU KRXUV wLWK

WKLV wLWnHVV, JRLnJ RYHU WKH nRWHV wLWK KHU. HRw LW LV WKDW ,

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55

wRXOG EH SUHFOXGHG IURP JRLnJ RYHU WKHVH VDPH nRWHV wLWK KHU,

-XGJH, LV EHyRnG PH. $nG , GRn'W NnRw H[DFWOy wKDW, Ln ODw,

KLV REMHFWLRn LV. 6KH KDV WHVWLILHG VKH GRHVn'W UHFDOO wKDW

VKH nRWHG DERXW WKH FRPSODLnWV DERXW Py FOLHnW. 2NDy? 6R

, -- ,'YH DVNHG KHU, LV WKHUH -- , FDn DVN KHU, LV WKHUH

VRPHWKLnJ WKDW wRXOG UHIUHVK yRXU UHFROOHFWLRn. ,'P VXUH LW

wLOO EH KHU nRWHV. HH wHnW -- DnG DG nDXVHDP -- RYHU HDFK DnG

HYHUy SRLnW DERXW wKDW wDV wURnJ wLWK Py FOLHnW GXULnJ WKHVH

YLVLWV. , WKLnN , GHVHUYH D OLWWOH ELW RI OHHwDy DV WR wKDW,

H[DFWOy, LV Ln WKHVH nRWHV, DnG/RU WR GLVFXVV wLWK KHU wKDW

KDSSHnHG GXULnJ WKHVH YLVLWV, DOO RI wKLFK , SUHVXPH LV

FRnWDLnHG wLWKLn WKHVH nRWHV.

MR. MARGUL,S: 0Dy ,, EULHIOy?

THE COURT: YHV.

MR. MARGUL,S: , XVHG WKH nRWHV RnH WLPH WR

UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn. , ORRNHG DW KHU nRWHV SUHYLRXVOy,

EHFDXVH Py RSSRVLnJ DWWRUnHy -- RSSRVLnJ CRXnVHO wRXOGn'W OHW

PH DVN TXHVWLRnV WKDW wHUH NLnG RI OXPSHG WRJHWKHU Ln WLPH,

wKHn LW KDG WR GR wLWK WKH wHDWKHU Rn D YDULHWy RI WKH

RFFDVLRnV.

0RUH LPSRUWDnWOy, WKRXJK, 0U. CHUYL LV

DWWHPSWLnJ -- LV LPSURSHUOy DWWHPSWLnJ Dn LPSHDFKPHnW RI WKH

wLWnHVV. ,I KH'V XVLnJ LW IRU -- WR UHIUHVK WKH UHFROOHFWLRn

RI WKH wLWnHVV, RU WR FRnWUDGLFW D VWDWHPHnW, WKH

LPSHDFKPHnW -- WKH SXUSRVH RI LPSHDFKLnJ D wLWnHVV wLWK D

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56

GRFXPHnW LV WR, TXRWH, XnTXRWH, FDWFK WKHP Ln D OLH. 7KHy VDy

VRPHWKLnJ Rn WKH wLWnHVV VWDnG, WKH OLJKW wDV JUHHn, EXW

WKHUH'V D VWDWHPHnW WKDW WKHy JDYH SUHYLRXVOy WKDW VDyV WKH

OLJKW wDV UHG. 0U. CHUYL LV nRW DVNLnJ WKLV wLWnHVV WRGDy,

wKDW KHU REVHUYDWLRnV wHUH GXULnJ WKH YLVLWV RI KLV FOLHnW.

HH'V nRW DVNLnJ IRU WHVWLPRnLDO HYLGHnFH WKDW KH wRXOG WKHn EH

VHHNLnJ WR LPSHDFK.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, FDn , --

MR. MARGUL,S: E[FXVH PH.

MR. CERV,: , --

MR. MARGUL,S: E[FXVH PH.

MR. CERV,: ,'P nRW WUyLnJ WR LPSHDFK WKH

wLWnHVV.

MR. MARGUL,S: YRX'UH LnWHUUXSWLnJ.

MR. CERV,: ,'P nRW WUyLnJ WR LPSHDFK.

MR. MARGUL,S: YRX'UH LnWHUUXSWLnJ.

THE COURT: :DLW D PLnXWH.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,W'V Dn LPSURSHU LPSHDFKPHnW.

MR. CERV,: ,W'V D UHFROOHFWLRn.

MR. MARGUL,S: HH'V DVNLnJ TXHVWLRnV DERXW wKDW

VKH SXW Ln KHU nRWHV, DnG WKHn KH'V WUyLnJ WR LPSHDFK WKDW.

HH'V nRW DVNLnJ KHU TXHVWLRnV Ln D WULDO. HHUH, wH'UH KHUH

IRU WULDO. 7KLV LV yRXU RSSRUWXnLWy WR DVN D wLWnHVV

TXHVWLRnV, DnG LI VKH VDyV VRPHWKLnJ RWKHU WKDn wKDW wDV Ln D

SULRU VWDWHPHnW -- , GRn'W WKLnN nRWHV DUH D VWDWHPHnW, EXW LI

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57

WKHy wHUH, WKHn yRX FRXOG LPSHDFK wLWK WKH VWDWHPHnW. HLV

TXHVWLRnLnJ LV FRPSOHWHOy RII EDVH.

THE COURT: , --

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , -- LW'V WR UHIUHVK KHU

UHFROOHFWLRn. , MXVW wDnW WR KHOS KLP IRU RnH VHFRnG. ,

PRYHG Rn WR UHIUHVKLnJ KHU UHFROOHFWLRn.

YRXU HRnRU --

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH --

MR. CERV,: -- , FDn'W LPDJLnH WKDW WKLV CRXUW

LV JRLnJ WR VDy , FDn'W UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn wLWK WKH VDPH

GRFXPHnW KH XVHG WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn.

HLV REMHFWLRn LV, , FDn'W LPSHDFK WKH wLWnHVV

wLWK LW. FLnH. ,'P UHIUHVKLnJ KHU UHFROOHFWLRn. 6KH VDLG

VKH GRHVn'W NnRw. 6KH FDn'W UHFDOO. 7KLV LV WKH SURSHU

SURFHGXUH WR GR VR, -XGJH.

MR. MARGUL,S: BXW WKH VWXII VKH GRHVn'W UHFDOO

LV WKH nRWHV. HH'V nRW DVNLnJ KHU TXHVWLRnV WRGDy. HH'V

DVNLnJ KHU DERXW wKDW'V Ln WKH nRWHV.

THE COURT: 0U. CHUYL, yRX'UH VXSSRVHG WR VWLFN

WR FURVV-H[DPLnDWLRn RI wKDW'V EHHn WHVWLILHG WR Ey 0V. .UDWW.

MR. CERV,: 7KLV wDV WHVWLILHG WR, -XGJH.

, -- RK, Py /RUG. 'R wH nHHG WR SULnW WKH WUDnVFULSW?

THE COURT: FRU WKH -- IRU WKH RnH WLPH WKDW VKH

wDV UHIUHVKHG KHU UHFROOHFWLRn? $UH yRX VWLFNLnJ WR WKH nRWHV

RI WKH WLPH VKH wDV UHIUHVKHG?

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58

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , FDn FURVV KHU --

THE COURT: YRX'UH WDNLnJ DOO RI KHU nRWHV IURP

DOO RI KHU REVHUYDWLRnV, DnG WKHy wHUHn'W HYHn XVHG KHUH Ln

KHU GLUHFW WHVWLPRny.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, WKHVH nRWHV SHUWDLn WR WKH

VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV, wKLFK VKH WHVWLILHG WR IRU WKH ODVW WwR

GDyV, YRXU HRnRU. 6KH WHVWLILHG DERXW wKDW'V Ln WKH nRWHV IRU

WKH ODVW WwR GDyV. ,'P DVNLnJ KHU DERXW VSHFLILF HYHnWV WKDW

VKH'V DOUHDGy WHVWLILHG WR. 6KH VDLG VKH GRHVn'W NnRw. ,'P

DVNLnJ WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn, YRXU HRnRU.

THE COURT: $OO ULJKW. :Ky GRn'W yRX UHIUHVK

KHU UHFROOHFWLRn Ey VWDWLnJ WR KHU wKDW'V Ln KHU nRWHV Rn D

SDUWLFXODU GDy, DnG DVN KHU DERXW LW? :Ky GR wH KDYH WR DVN

KHU WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn wLWK WKH nRWHV? 7KHy'UH nRW

Ln HYLGHnFH.

MR. CERV,: 7KDW'V KRw yRX UHIUHVK UHFROOHFWLRn,

wLWK nRWHV.

THE COURT: YRX GHnLHG KLV UHTXHVW WR SXW WKHP

LnWR HYLGHnFH.

MR. CERV,: , GRn'W WKLnN WKHy wRXOG EH SURSHU

WR SXW Ln HYLGHnFH, YRXU HRnRU, EHFDXVH WKHy FRnWDLn PXOWLSOH

VWDWHPHnWV Ln KHDUVDy.

THE COURT: 2NDy. BXW nRw yRX'UH JRLnJ WR

FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU Rn WKLnJV VKH VWDWHG, WKDW , wRn'W HYHn --

MR. CERV,: 7KDW VKH REVHUYHG, -XGJH, yHV.

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59

THE COURT: 7KDW VKH REVHUYHG, EXW GLG VKH

WHVWLIy WR? ,'P nRW JRLnJ WR EH UHYLHwLnJ WKRVH nRWHV WR

wULWH D GHFLVLRn.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, VKH WHVWLILHG WR WKHP.

THE COURT: YRX FDn'W JHW WwR ELWHV DW WKH

DSSOH, 0U. CHUYL. YRX FDn'W VDy WKHVH VKRXOGn'W EH HnWHUHG

LnWR HYLGHnFH, EHFDXVH WKHUH'V PXOWLSOH VWDWHPHnWV Ln WKHUH

WKDW yRX WKLnN DUH LnDSSURSULDWH.

MR. CERV,: ,'P nRW ORRNLnJ WR SXW WKHP Ln

HYLGHnFH, -XGJH. ,'P ORRNLnJ WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn.

7KDW'V wKDW ,'P VHHNLnJ WR GR. ,'P nRW DVNLnJ WKDW WKHy JR Ln

HYLGHnFH. -XVW OLNH KH WULHG WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn

EHIRUH, ,'P JRLnJ WKURXJK WKH SURSHU SURFHGXUHV WR UHIUHVK KHU

UHFROOHFWLRn, YRXU HRnRU.

THE COURT: BXW WKLV LV D FURVV-H[DPLnLnJ

wLWnHVV. 7KLV LV nRW yRXU GLUHFW wLWnHVV WR UHIUHVK WKH

UHFROOHFWLRn.

MR. MARGUL,S: CDOOHG LPSHDFKPHnW.

MR. CERV,: ,W GRHVn'W PDWWHU, -XGJH. ,W

GRHVn'W PDWWHU. 2K, Py JRVK. YRXU HRnRU, SOHDVH. 6KH VDLG

VKH GRHVn'W UHFDOO.

THE COURT: 0U. CDIDUHOOD, wKHUH DUH yRX DW wLWK

WKLV? , wDnW WR KHDU IURP yRX.

MR. CAFARELLA: -XGJH, , -- ,'P WUyLnJ WR ILnG

wKHUH 0U. CHUYL'V SRLnWLnJ RXW Ln WKH nRWHV, wKHUH KH'V WUyLnJ

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60

WR UHIUHVK WKH wLWnHVV'V UHFROOHFWLRn, EHFDXVH LI LW -- LI

LW'V wKDW , WKLnN LW LV, LW'V RXWVLGH WKH VFRSH RI GLUHFW.

THE COURT: 5LJKW.

MR. CAFARELLA: ,W wDV nHYHU DGGUHVVHG Ey --

THE COURT: ,I yRX'UH UHIUHVKLnJ KHU

UHFROOHFWLRn Ln D SDUWLFXODU WKLnJ VKH WHVWLILHG WR,

0U. CHUYL, WKDW LV RnH WKLnJ.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, VKH WHVWLILHG WR PDny RI WKH

WKLnJV Rn KHUH. ,I nHHG EH, -XGJH, , wLOO FDOO KHU, WKHn, DV

D wLWnHVV PyVHOI, DnG FDOO KHU DIWHU WKLV. $IWHU , JHW GRnH

wLWK KHU FURVV, -XGJH, ,'OO UH-FDOO KHU DV D wLWnHVV Rn

GLUHFW, LI LW SOHDVHV WKH CRXUW.

THE COURT: $V ORnJ DV yRX SDy KHU. , PHDn, yRX

wDnW WR WDON DERXW SDyLnJ KHU DV D wLWnHVV, nRw yRX wDnW WR

FDOO KHU DV D wLWnHVV?

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH'V nRW Rn KLV wLWnHVV OLVW.

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR JLYH yRX D YHUy VKRUW

OHDVK Rn WKLV. , GRn'W NnRw wKDW yRX'UH JRLnJ WR UHIUHVK KHU

UHFROOHFWLRn Rn. ,'P JRLnJ WR JLYH yRX D VKRUW OHDVK Rn WKLV.

7KHVH DUH nRW Ln HYLGHnFH. ,'P nRW UHYLHwLnJ WKHP. ,'P nRW

ORRNLnJ DW WKHP. ,'P nRW UHDGLnJ WKURXJK WKHP. 7KHVH DUH

SDJHV DnG SDJHV DnG SDJHV RI nRWHV RI REVHUYDWLRnV WKDW yRX

GRn'W wDnW PH WR VHH; KRwHYHU, yRX wDnW WR XVH WKHP DnG -- JHW

WwR ELWHV DW WKH DSSOH KHUH, DnG XVH WKHP WR FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU

Rn.

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MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , -- wLWK DOO GXH UHVSHFW, WR

UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn. 7KH nRWHV GRn'W JR LnWR HYLGHnFH.

THE COURT: $OO ULJKW.

MR. CERV,: 7KHy GRn'W.

THE COURT: 0U. 0DUJXOLV, WUXVW PH Rn WKLV.

,'P JRLnJ WR JLYH yRX D VKRUW OHDVK Rn WKLV. *R

DKHDG, 0U. CHUYL.

MR. MARGUL,S: $nG , KDWH WR DVN WR UHDG EDFN

WKH TXHVWLRn, EXW --

THE COURT: 5HDG EDFN WKH TXHVWLRn.

MR. MARGUL,S: -- FRXOG VRPHRnH WHOO PH wKDW WKH

TXHVWLRn wDV WKDW WKH wLWnHVV VDLG VKH GRHVn'W UHPHPEHU Dn

DnVwHU WR?

THE COURT: *R DKHDG. YRX FDn UHDG EDFN IRU WKH

ODVW IHw PLnXWHV.

(:KHrHupRn, WKH DbRvH-rHquHsWHd WHsWiPRny wDs rHDd

bDFk by WKH rHpRrWHr.)

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KH TXHVWLRn wDV DERXW WKH nRWHV.

'R yRX UHFDOO wKDW wDV Ln WKH nRWHV.

MR. CERV,: /HW PH UHSKUDVH WKH TXHVWLRn.

THE COURT: 5LJKW.

MR. CERV,: 0V. .UDWW, GR yRX UHFDOO PDNLnJ

REVHUYDWLRnV DV WKLnJV WKDW Py FOLHnW wRXOG FRPSODLn DERXW

GXULnJ yRXU VXSHUYLVLRn?

MR. MARGUL,S: $JDLn, REMHFWLRn.

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62

THE :,T1ESS: 1R.

MR. MARGUL,S: ,W'V LUUHOHYDnW. HH'V DVNLnJ KHU

LI VKH PDGH nRWHV. 7KLV LV FURVV-H[DPLnDWLRn. ,W'V OLPLWHG

WR WKH VFRSH RI Py GLUHFW.

THE COURT: ,'P RYHUUXOLnJ LW, EHFDXVH yRX

VSHFLILFDOOy KDG GLUHFW WHVWLPRny XSRn -- LI yRX UHPHPEHU --

LI yRX UHFDOO, Rn WKH -XnH 30WK DnG -XOy 1VW LnFLGHnW -- RU

DFFHVV, EHFDXVH yRX WKRXJKW yRX wHUH JRLnJ WR KDYH WR JR

WKURXJK HDFK DnG HYHUy GDy'V nRWH, DnG ,'P -- , WROG yRX; LW'V

D VKRUW --

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: -- OHDVK Rn WKLV. ,'OO OHW KLP JR

wLWK MXVW -XnH 30WK DnG -XOy 1VW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XUH.

THE COURT: 7KDW'V DV IDU DV wH'OO JR wLWK WKDW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy, -XGJH.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 ,V WKHUH VRPHWKLnJ WKDW wRXOG KHOS UHIUHVK yRXU

UHFROOHFWLRn DV WR WKH WKLnJV WKDW yRX WKRXJKW WKDW .DWLH wLOO

FRPSODLn DERXW?

A 1RW Ln Py nRWHV, nR.

MR. CERV,: /HW PH VKRw yRX -- ,'P JRLnJ WR KDYH

WKLV PDUNHG.

(:KHrHupRn, 5HspRndHnW's A, supHrvisHd visiW nRWHs

WR dDWH: )Rr 6/30/18 Dnd 7/1/18, wHrH WKHn PDrkHd fRr

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63

idHnWifiFDWiRn.)

MR. MARGUL,S: ,'P nRW VXUH wKy yRX'UH VKRwLnJ

WKHP WR PH. , REMHFW WR WKHP JRLnJ LnWR HYLGHnFH.

MR. CERV,: 7KHy'UH IRU LGHnWLILFDWLRn. ,V WKLV

yRXU ILUVW GDy EHLnJ D ODwyHU?

MR. MARGUL,S: YRX NnRw wKDW? , UHVHnW WKDW

FRPPHnW.

MR. CERV,: YRX VKRXOGn'W.

THE COURT: YRX JXyV VKRXOG nRW VSHDN WR HDFK

RWKHU. 7KDW'V GLVUHVSHFWIXO, 0U. CHUYL.

MR. CERV,: YRX'UH ULJKW, YRXU HRnRU. ,

DSRORJL]H. ,'P WUyLnJ WR PRYH WKLV DORnJ.

THE COURT: HH LV REMHFWLnJ DV PXFK DV yRX

REMHFWHG wKHn KH GLG GLUHFW RI KLV wLWnHVV.

MR. MARGUL,S: 0Dy ,?

THE COURT: 5HVSHFW WKH CRXUW. 5HVSHFW HDFK

RWKHU. , XnGHUVWDnG WKDW yRX'UH JRLnJ WR -- yRX GLVDJUHH wLWK

WKLV JRLnJ LnWR HYLGHnFH.

MR. MARGUL,S: , KDYH D GLIIHUHnW REMHFWLRn.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. MARGUL,S: HH MXVW DVNHG 0V. .UDWW, VKH VDLG

VKH GLGn'W UHPHPEHU wKDW VKH SXW Ln KHU nRWHV DERXW VRPHWKLnJ,

DERXW wKDW RU KRw --

THE COURT: 6RPHWKLnJ DERXW 0V. 5LIRUG.

MR. MARGUL,S: YHDK. $nG KH VDLG, wRXOG LW EH

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64

Ln yRXU nRWHV, DnG VKH VDLG nR. 1Rw, KH'V PDUNHG KHU nRWHV,

DnG KH'V JRLnJ WR WUy WR UHIUHVK KHU UHFROOHFWLRn Ey VKRwLnJ

KHU KHU nRWHV.

THE COURT: , NnRw.

MR. CERV,: $FWXDOOy --

MR. MARGUL,S: BXW VKH VDLG nR --

MR. CERV,: -- DW WKLV SRLnW --

MR. MARGUL,S: 6KH VDLG, nR, Py nRWHV wLOO nRW

UHIUHVK Py UHFROOHFWLRn, VR yRX FDn'W RIIHU DV Dn H[KLELW IRU

LGHnWLILFDWLRn, WKH nRWHV, XnOHVV WKH wLWnHVV KDV VDLG, yHDK,

Py nRWHV wRXOG UHIUHVK Py UHFROOHFWLRn DV WR WKDW TXHVWLRn,

EXW VKH VDLG nR, WKHy wLOO nRW.

MR. CERV,: HH'V DEVROXWHOy ULJKW, YRXU HRnRU.

$W WKLV SRLnW, , wLOO PRYH WR LPSHDFK KHU. 6KH KDV VWDWHG

WKDW VKH GLG nRW PDNH Dny nRWHV DERXW wKDW Py FOLHnW

FRPSODLnHG DERXW. $W WKLV SRLnW, , KDYH 5HVSRnGHnW'V $.

THE COURT: 6KH VDLG KHU nRWHV wRXOGn'W UHIUHVK

KHU UHFROOHFWLRn.

MR. CERV,: :HOO, OHW PH --

THE COURT: 6KH GLGn'W VDy, , GLGn'W wULWH WKDW

Ln Py nRWHV.

MR. CERV,: CDn yRX UHDG EDFN KHU DnVwHU,

SOHDVH?

(:KHrHupRn, WKH DbRvH-rHquHsWHd WHsWiPRny wDs rHDd

bDFk by WKH rHpRrWHr.)

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65

BY MR. CERV,:

4 /HW PH IROORw XS wLWK WKDW. ,n yRXU nRWHV, 0V. .UDWW,

GLG yRX PDNH D GHWDLOHG wULWWHn REVHUYDWLRn DV WR WKH WKLnJV

WKDW Py FOLHnW, .DWLH, wLOO FRPSODLn DERXW?

A ,n Dn H-PDLO WR -DVRn , GLG, EHFDXVH 'DnD HHUULnJWRn

GLGn'W FDOO PH EDFN, DnG , wDV UHDFKLnJ RXW WR .DWLH'V

RULJLnDO DWWRUnHy, EHFDXVH .DWLH wDV WUyLnJ WR GULYH WKH EXV

IRU WKH wKROH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLW, DnG , --

4 7KH DnVwHU LV yHV RU nR. 6R yRX GLG?

A BXW WKHUH'V D SUREOHP wLWK -- WKHy'UH Py --

4 0V. .UDWW --

A -- nRWHV. ,W'V Dn --

4 -- yRX --

A -- H-PDLO --

4 0V. .UDWW, yRX DnVwHUHG WKH TXHVWLRn.

A -- WR 0U. CDIDUHOOD.

THE COURT: /HW KHU DnVwHU, 0U. CHUYL. 6KH'V

WUyLnJ WR H[SODLn WR yRX wKDWHYHU yRX'UH DVNLnJ, wKLFK LV

XnEHNnRwnVW WR PH. ,I yRX wDnW PH WR XnGHUVWDnG wKDW VKH'V

DnVwHULnJ, OHW KHU DnVwHU WKH TXHVWLRn.

MR. CERV,: 6KH GLG, -XGJH.

6R yRX KDYH D wULWWHn VXPPDWLRn DV WR WKH WKLnJV

WKDW Py FOLHnW wLOO FRPSODLn DERXW; LV WKDW ULJKW?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFW WR WKH IRUP RI WKH

TXHVWLRn. , GRn'W XnGHUVWDnG wKDW WKH TXHVWLRn LV DVNLnJ.

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66

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR RYHUUXOH LW. ,'P JRLnJ

WR OHW KHU DnVwHU. HH'V DVNLnJ KHU LI WKHUH'V DnyWKLnJ Ln KHU

nRWHV --

MR. MARGUL,S: $nWLFLSDWRULOy.

THE COURT: $nWLFLSDWRULOy.

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: 2NDy. ,I yRX FDn DnVwHU, 0V. .UDWW.

CDn yRX DnVwHU WKDW?

THE :,T1ESS: , KDYH WR VDy nR. 7KRVH DUH nRW

Py nRWHV. 7KRVH DUH TXHVWLRnV IRU WKH $WWRUnHy IRU CKLOG,

EHFDXVH 'DnD HHUULnJWRn wDV nRW FDOOLnJ PH EDFN, DnG DW WKDW

WLPH, WKDW wDV .DWLH'V DWWRUnHy. , wDV ORRNLnJ IRU GLUHFWLRn,

VR , wDV wULWLnJ WKRVH WwR SDJHV. ,I yRX ORRN DW WKRVH WwR

SDJHV, WKRVH DUH nRW EXOOHW SRLnWV. 7KRVH DUH -- WKHy'UH

nXPEHUHG. , wDV XS DW 4:00 Ln WKH PRUnLnJ. , wDV VR XSVHW

DERXW wKDW KDSSHnHG DW WKH ILUVW YLVLW, WKDW , wURWH WKDW.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 6R yRX DnVwHUHG WKH TXHVWLRn. 6R WKHUH LV -- Ln

wULWLnJ, yRX SXW VHTXHnWLDO nXPEHUV DV WR WKH WKLnJV WKDW Py

FOLHnW wRXOG FRPSODLn DERXW, FRUUHFW?

A /RRNLnJ IRU GLUHFWLRn IURP 0U. CDIDUHOOD, yHV.

4 YRX SXW VRPHWKLnJ Ln wULWLnJ DV WR wKDW Py FOLHnW

wRXOG FRPSODLn DERXW; LV WKDW ULJKW? YHV?

A YHV.

MR. MARGUL,S: , KDYH WR UHnHw Py REMHFWLRn nRw,

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67

Py XnGHUOyLnJ REMHFWLRn, DnG , WKLnN 0U. CDIDUHOOD VXSSRUWHG

LW. 7KLV LV EHyRnG WKH VFRSH RI DnyWKLnJ , GLVFXVVHG

wLWK -- , -- WKDW WKH wLWnHVV GLVFXVVHG Rn GLUHFW.

THE COURT: , NnRw, EXW wH'UH -- wH'UH -- yRX

JXyV DUH WUHDGLnJ Rn WKH IDFW WKDW -- yRX'YH XVHG KHU nRWHV.

YRX ERWK KDYH FRSLHV RI KHU nRWHV. ,'P JRLnJ WR --

MR. MARGUL,S: /HW'V MXVW SURGXFH WKH H-PDLO.

HH'V wRnGHULnJ DERXW D VWDWHPHnW wKHUH WKH wLWnHVV VDLG VKH

wDV wRUULHG DERXW wKDW .DWLH VDLG RU GLG. ,I WKHUH'V D

GRFXPHnW RXW WKHUH, SURGXFH WKH GRFXPHnW, DnG wH'OO GHWHUPLnH

LI YRXU HRnRU LV JRLnJ WR DOORw LW Ln, LI LW'V HYHn UHOHYDnW.

THE COURT: CRUUHFW. ,'P JRLnJ WR -- ,'P VWLOO

RYHUUXOLnJ yRXU REMHFWLRn. , JDYH KLP VRPH ODWLWXGH, EXW

0U. CHUYL, yRX'UH FRPLnJ VKRUW wLWK WKH ODWLWXGH Rn WKHVH

nRWHV. :KDW VKH WHVWLILHG WR LV, wKDW'V Ln WKRVH nRWHV DUH

WKLnJV VKH wDV JRLnJ WR DVN 0V. 5LIRUG'V RWKHU DWWRUnHy Rn WKH

FDVH DW WKH WLPH.

MR. CERV,: FDLU HnRXJK, YRXU HRnRU.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. CERV,: 1Rw, Ln WKLV H-PDLO, yRX nRWHG 15

LVVXHV yRX KDG wLWK Py FOLHnW, DV LW SHUWDLnV WR -XnH 30WK DnG

-XOy 1VW VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV; LV WKDW ULJKW?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn. CRXnVHO LV PDNLnJ D

UHIHUHnFH WR D GRFXPHnW nRW Ln HYLGHnFH.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. ,W'V nRW Ln HYLGHnFH,

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68

0U. CHUYL.

MR. CERV,: , DVNHG KHU D TXHVWLRn.

THE COURT: YRX DVNHG KHU D TXHVWLRn DERXW D

GRFXPHnW WKDW wDVn'W LGHnWLILHG WR DnyWKLnJ Ln WKLV CRXUW yHW.

MR. CERV,: ,W'V 5HVSRnGHnW'V $ IRU

LGHnWLILFDWLRn, -XGJH.

THE COURT: ,V WKLV Dn H-PDLO WKDW yRX'UH

RIIHULnJ WR KHU IRU LGHnWLILFDWLRn, RU LV WKLV KHU nRWHV? ,'P

FRnIXVHG.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, LW'V WLWOHG Rn LW, VXSHUYLVHG

YLVLW nRWHV WR GDWH IRU 6/30/18 DnG 7/1/18.

THE COURT: ,V LW Ln Dn H-PDLO?

MR. CERV,: , GRn'W NnRw wKDW LW'V Ln. ,W

GRHVn'W ORRN OLNH Dn H-PDLO WR PH. ,W VDyV VXSHUYLVHG YLVLW

nRWHV WR GDWH -XnH 30WK, '18 DnG 7/1/18. 7KDW'V wKDW LW VDyV,

-XGJH.

, WKLnN LW'V YHUy UHOHYDnW WR WKHVH SURFHHGLnJV,

DnG , -- , -- Ln Dny HYHnW, ,'G OLNH WR DVN KHU DERXW WKLV, DV

LW'V DOUHDGy EHHn DVNHG Rn GLUHFW H[DPLnDWLRn DG nDXVHDP

DERXW --

-XGJH, VKH'V D VXSHUYLVHG -- VKH'V KHUH WR

WHVWLIy DERXW WKH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLW, EXW yRX'UH VDyLnJ , FDn'W

TXHVWLRn KHU REVHUYDWLRnV IURP WKH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV.

THE COURT: 1R, , GLGn'W VDy WKDW. YRX FDn

TXHVWLRn KHU DnG FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU Rn HYHUyWKLnJ VKH KDV

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69

WHVWLILHG WR, EXW yRX'UH WUyLnJ WR XVH D GRFXPHnW WKDW , FDn'W

JHW LGHnWLILHG KHUH DV wKDW LW LV.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, DOO , wDnW WR GR LV DVN KHU,

GLG yRX -- GLG yRX PDNH --

YRX PDGH VHYHUDO FRPSODLnWV DERXW Py FOLHnW IURP

WKH -XnH 30WK DnG -XOy 1VW YLVLW, FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn. $JDLn, KH'V WDONLnJ

DERXW FRnYHUVDWLRnV --

MR. CERV,: 2K, Py *RG.

MR. MARGUL,S: -- WKDW VKH KDG wLWK WKH $WWRUnHy

IRU CKLOG DnG/RU WKH DWWRUnHy IRU 0V. 5LIRUG EHIRUH 0U. CHUYL.

MR. CERV,: HDnJ Rn D VHFRnG. CRXOG wH JHW D

OHJDO EDVLV?

THE COURT: :DLW D PLnXWH.

MR. CERV,: HRw DERXW D OHJDO EDVLV?

THE COURT: HH LV MXVW DVNLnJ D TXHVWLRn ULJKW

nRw. , NnRw KH'V UHIHUULnJ WR VRPHWKLnJ Ln KLV KDnGV, EXW KH

GLGn'W DVN KHU DERXW WKDW. 6KH WHVWLILHG WR WKH -XnH 30WK DnG

-XOy 1VW DFFHVV.

MR. MARGUL,S: , DVNHG KHU DERXW WKDW DFFHVV,

yHDK.

THE COURT: 5LJKW.

MR. MARGUL,S: , DVNHG KHU DERXW WKH wHDWKHU.

THE COURT: CRUUHFW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 6XnVFUHHn. ,W wDV VXnny. :KDW

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70

GLG yRX GR. 7KDW'V wKDW , DVNHG KHU.

THE COURT: 5LJKW.

MR. MARGUL,S: HH'V WUyLnJ WR JR DIWHU KHU

nRWHV. FRU 20 PLnXWHV nRw, KH'V WUyLnJ WR JR DIWHU KHU nRWHV,

LnVWHDG RI JRLnJ DIWHU KHU WHVWLPRny.

THE COURT: , --

MR. CERV,: -XGJH --

THE COURT: , DJUHH, 0U. CHUYL. CDn yRX MXVW

FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU Rn wKDW VKH WHVWLILHG WR wLWK UHVSHFW WR

WKRVH WwR DFFHVV SHULRG GDyV?

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, wLWK UHJDUGV WR WKLV, DJDLn,

WKHVH DUH KHU REVHUYDWLRnV IURP WKH YLVLWV. 2NDy? 7KLV LV

WKH wKROH FUX[ RI KHU WHVWLPRny. , -- , FDn'W EHOLHYH WKDW

,'P nRW JRLnJ WR EH DOORwHG WR --

THE COURT: 2NDy. YRX NnRw wKDW?

MR. CERV,: -- FURVV-H[DPLnH KHU Rn WKDW.

THE COURT: :H'UH JRLnJ WR DGMRXUn, DnG ERWK RI

yRX FDn EULHI PH Rn wKy yRX VKRXOG EH DEOH WR FURVV-H[DPLnH

KHU wLWK WKHVH nRWHV WKDW DUH nRW LnWR HYLGHnFH. 7KHVH DUH

nRW nRWHV Ln HYLGHnFH.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, ,'P DVNLnJ KHU DERXW

KHU -- KH DVNHG KHU DERXW DOO NLnGV RI REVHUYDWLRnV GXULnJ WKH

YLVLWV, DOO NLnGV --

THE COURT: 5LJKW.

MR. CERV,: -- LnFOXGLnJ nHJDWLYH VWXII DERXW Py

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71

FOLHnW, FRUUHFW? 7KDW -- , EHOLHYH , KHDUG DOO WKDW.

THE COURT: 6R --

MR. CERV,: 6R ,'P DVNLnJ KHU DERXW WKH VDPH

WKLnJ, DERXW VRPH nHJDWLYH WKLnJV WKDW VKH REVHUYHG DERXW Py

FOLHnW.

THE COURT: $OO ULJKW. 6R VWRS UHIHUULnJ WR

WKLnJV nRW Ln HYLGHnFH. -XVW DVN KHU DERXW KHU WHVWLPRny Rn

GLUHFW, 0U. CHUYL.

*R DKHDG, 0U. CDIDUHOOD.

MR. CAFARELLA: , WKLnN --

THE COURT: 7KLV LV, OLNH, D nHYHU-GyLnJ

REMHFWLRn IRU 10 PLnXWHV nRw.

MR. CAFARELLA: , NnRw LW LV.

THE COURT: *R DKHDG.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH --

MR. CAFARELLA: 7KHUH'V nR IRXnGDWLRn

HVWDEOLVKHG. 0U. CHUYL GRHVn'W XnGHUVWDnG wKDW WKH GRFXPHnW

LV Ln IURnW RI KLP WKDW KH SODFHG DV 'HIHnGDnW'V $ [VLF.] IRU

LGHnWLILFDWLRn. HH'V nHYHU DVNHG WKH wLWnHVV WR LGHnWLIy LW,

yHW. FURP WKDW SRLnW, WKH CRXUW GRHVn'W NnRw wKDW GRFXPHnW

KH'V WDONLnJ DERXW, wKHWKHU LW'V Dn H-PDLO, wKHWKHU WKRVH DUH

KHU nRWHV, wKHWKHU WKDW wDV D FRnYHUVDWLRn WKDW VKH LnWHnGHG

WR KDYH WR JHW JXLGDnFH Rn WKH DFFHVV. :H GRn'W NnRw,

EHFDXVH -- , VXUPLVH KH'V LnWHnGLnJ WR LPSHDFK KHU Rn D

VWDWHPHnW VKH PDGH Ln WKHUH, EXW wLWKRXW JLYLnJ KHU WKDW

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72

LnIRUPDWLRn --

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , FDn'W HYHn JHW WKH TXHVWLRn

RXW. , KDYHn'W DVNHG KHU -- , DVNHG KHU D TXHVWLRn DV WR KHU

REVHUYDWLRnV DnG wKHWKHU VKH PDGH nRWHV Rn WKRVH REVHUYDWLRnV.

, FDn'W JHW Dn DnVwHU WR WKDW, wLWKRXW DOO WKHVH REMHFWLRnV,

YRXU HRnRU. 7KLV LV DOO ,'P -- , KDYHn'W WULHG WR GR DnyWKLnJ

wLWK WKLV GRFXPHnW. 2NDy? 7KLV LV 5HVSRnGHnW'V $ IRU

LGHnWLILFDWLRn. $W WKLV SRLnW, , wRXOG OLNH VRPH ODWLWXGH WR

DVN D TXHVWLRn wLWKRXW LnWHUUXSWLRn. , WKLnN WKDW'V FRPPRn

FRXUWHVy DnG GHFRUXP Ln WKHVH SURFHHGLnJV, -XGJH. HH KDVn'W

HYHn VWDWHG D OHJDO EDVLV. HH MXVW VWDUWV WDONLnJ DERXW WKLV,

WKDW, DnG WKH RWKHU WKLnJ. 7KHUH'V nR OHJDO EDVLV --

THE COURT: 7KH OHJDO EDVLV --

MR. CERV,: -- Rn WKH REMHFWLRn.

THE COURT: -- LV WKDW yRX'UH UHIHUULnJ WR D

GRFXPHnW WKDW wH GRn'W NnRw wKDW yRX'UH UHIHUULnJ WR. $OVR,

LW'V D GRFXPHnW nRW LnWR HYLGHnFH. ,I LW LV D GRFXPHnW WKDW

yRX IHHO DV WKRXJK 0U. 0DUJXOLV XVHG WR UHIUHVK KHU

UHFROOHFWLRn, wKLFK DV IDU DV ,'P XnGHUVWDnGLnJ, LW'V nRW --

/HW'V MXVW PRYH Rn. -XVW DVN WKH TXHVWLRn.

YRX'UH VXSSRVHG WR --

MR. CERV,: YRXU HRnRU, , wLOO FRPH EDFN WR

WKLV. , wLOO FRPH EDFN WR WKLV DW WKH nH[W CRXUW DSSHDUDnFH

Rn WKH -- Rn WKLV, DnG , wLOO EH DVNLnJ, DOVR, IRU WKH CRXUW

WUDnVFULSWV. , EHOLHYH -- KRw ORnJ wLOO LW WDNH WR KDYH WKH

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73

CRXUW WUDnVFULSW IRU WKH nH[W -- LI yRX FRXOG, D FRXSOH GDyV?

THE REPORTER: YHV.

MR. CERV,: , wRXOG OLNH WKH WUDnVFULSW. ,'OO

OHDYH yRX Py FDUG, DnG wH'OO JHW WKH WUDnVFULSW.

THE COURT: 2NDy.

MR. CERV,: ,n Dny HYHnW, , UHVHUYH Py ULJKW WR

FRPH EDFN WR WKDW VSHFLILF LVVXH.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 $V yRX VWDWHG, yRX KDYH nR IRUPDO WUDLnLnJ DV D

VXSHUYLVRU, FRUUHFW, 0V. .UDWW?

A , KDYH WDNHn FRXUVHV RnOLnH. 7KHUH LV nR -- yRX FDn'W

JR WR VFKRRO WR EH D VXSHUYLVHG -- D VXSHUYLVRU IRU YLVLWV.

7KHUH'V nRWKLnJ RXW WKHUH.

4 8nGHUVWRRG, VR yRX GRn'W KDYH Dny IRUPDO WUDLnLnJ,

FRUUHFW?

A , KDYH WDNHn FODVVHV, yHV.

4 YRX'YH WDNHn FODVVHV DV LW SHUWDLnV WR VXSHUYLVHG

YLVLWDWLRn; LV WKDW ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. :KHUH GLG yRX WDNH WKH FODVVHV?

A , WRRN VRPH WKURXJK $nnLH 0RnDFR. 6KH'V DW WKH FHnWHU

IRU WUDXPD, DnG , WRRN VRPH RnOLnH.

4 2NDy. $nG KDYH yRX DOVR WDNHn FODVVHV DV LW SHUWDLnV

WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH LVVXHV?

A YHV.

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74

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG wKDW WySH RI WUDLnLnJ KDYH yRX WDNHn

DV LW UHODWHV WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH? 'RHV LW UHODWH WR SDUHnW

LnWHUDFWLRnV, wKHUH RnH LV D YLFWLP RI GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH?

A 1RW VSHFLILFDOOy IRU VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV.

4 $OO ULJKW. 7HOO PH wKDW LW LV WKDW yRX WRRN WKDW

wRXOG EH VLPLODU WR wKDW , MXVW DVNHG yRX.

A ,'YH GRnH PDny WUDLnLnJV DW WKH FKLOG DnG IDPLOy

VHUYLFHV.

4 2NDy.

A ,'YH GRnH VRPH WKURXJK FDPLOy CRXUW. ,'YH GRnH -- ,

wDV Rn WKH FRPPLWWHH IRU /*B7 GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH --

4 2NDy.

A -- GRwnWRwn.

4 $nG wLWK UHJDUGV WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH WUDLnLnJ, yRX

OHDUnHG WKDW wKHUH WKHUH LV GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH Ln

UHODWLRnVKLSV, WKHUH'V FHUWDLn wDyV WKDW DFWLYLWLHV VKRXOG EH

JRYHUnHG; LV WKDW ULJKW?

MR. CAFARELLA: -XGJH, ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW WR

WKH OLnH RI TXHVWLRnLnJ Rn GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH. ,W'V RXWVLGH

WKH VFRSH RI GLUHFW. 7KH wLWnHVV LV D VRFLDO wRUNHU wKR LV D

VXSHUYLVHG -- VXSHUYLVRU. 6KH KDV nRW WHVWLILHG Rn GLUHFW

WKDW VKH LV Dn H[SHUW RU KDV nHHGHG WUDLnLnJ WR GR -- wLWK

UHJDUGV WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. 0U. CHUYL, PRYH Rn.


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75

:LWK UHJDUGV WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH, LI WKHUH LV

GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH Ln D -- RU D KLVWRUy RI GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH Ln

D UHODWLRnVKLS, LV WKHUH -- VKRXOG WKH SDUWLHV EH WRJHWKHU?

MR. CAFARELLA: -XGJH, ,'P JRLnJ WR UHnHw Py

REMHFWLRn.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG, 0U. CHUYL. 7KHUH'V EHHn

nR WHVWLPRny wLWK UHVSHFW WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH Ln WKLV

SURFHHGLnJ.

MR. CERV,: 'LG 0V. 5LIRUG HYHU GLVFXVV wLWK yRX

WKDW VKH KDG LVVXHV wLWK 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy SULRU WR WKHVH

VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn WR WKH IRUP RI WKH

TXHVWLRn. HH GLGn'W VDy GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH Ln KLV TXHVWLRn.

,'P DVVXPLnJ WKDW'V wKDW KH'V JHWWLnJ DW, EXW PDyEH ,'P

DVVXPLnJ wURnJ. 7KH TXHVWLRn wDV, GLG VKH HYHU GLVFXVV Dny

LVVXHV DERXW 3HWHU.

MR. CERV,: ,W'V D IDLU TXHVWLRn. 'LG VKH KDYH

Dny LVVXHV --

THE COURT: ,'P JRLnJ WR RYHUUXOH LW. ,W'V D

IDLU TXHVWLRn --

MR. MARGUL,S: 2NDy.

THE COURT: -- EHFDXVH Ln WKH EHJLnnLnJ RI KHU

WHVWLPRny VKH WHVWLILHG WR PHHWLnJ WKH SDUWLHV WR EH SUHSDUHG

IRU WKH VXSHUYLVHG YLVLW.

MR. MARGUL,S: 7KDW'V ILnH.

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76

THE :,T1ESS: YHV. .DWLH PDGH PH DwDUH.

MR. CERV,: 2NDy. :KDW GLG VKH VDy WR yRX DV LW

UHODWHV WR KHU SULRU KLVWRUy wLWK 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy DnG GRPHVWLF

YLROHnFH?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn. BHyRnG WKH VFRSH RI

WKH GLUHFW. 1Rw KH'V DVNLnJ DERXW GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, KHU WHVWLPRny -- , FDn WHOO

yRX H[DFWOy wKDW WKLV LV UHOHYDnW WR. ,n KHU GLUHFW WHVWLPRny

VKH WHVWLILHG WKDW VKH WKRXJKW LW wDV RGG WKDW Py FOLHnW wRXOG

SDUN DURXnG WKH FRUnHU DnG wRXOGn'W EH -- yRX NnRw, SDUN nH[W

WR WKH FDU DnG wRXOG EH Ln GLIIHUHnW DUHDV wKHUH VKH KDG WR JR

DnG VHH. ,W'V GLUHFWOy UHODWHG WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH, -XGJH.

THE COURT: HRw DUH yRX JRLnJ WR SURYH WKDW wLWK

WKLV wLWnHVV?

MR. CERV,: ,'P MXVW JRLnJ WR DVN KHU DV LW

UHODWHV WR WKDW. 6KH VDyV, EDVLFDOOy, LW wDV wHLUG WKDW Py

FOLHnW wRXOGn'W SDUN nH[W WR KLP DnG wRXOG SDUN Ln GLIIHUHnW

DUHDV.

THE COURT: 2YHUUXOHG. $JDLn, , -- ,'OO JLYH

yRX D VKRUW OHDVK Rn WKLV, 0U. CHUYL.

MR. CERV,: 7KDnN yRX, YRXU HRnRU.

THE :,T1ESS: ,'P VRUUy, FRXOG yRX UHSHDW yRXU

TXHVWLRn?

BY MR. CERV,:

4 6R EHIRUH WKH DFFHVV EHJDn, 0V. 5LIRUG GLVFXVVHG wLWK

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77

yRX FHUWDLn SULRU KLVWRUy RI GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH wLWK

0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG VKH WROG yRX WKDW WKHUH KDG EHHn SULRU

LVVXHV UHODWLnJ WR SKyVLFDO DEXVH WKDW wDV XVHG XSRn KHU,

FRUUHFW?

A 6KH wDVn'W VSHFLILF OLNH WKDW, nR.

4 6KH GHVFULEHG WR yRX WKDW 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy KDG EHHn

SKyVLFDO wLWK KHU Ln WKH FRXUVH RI WKHLU UHODWLRnVKLS,

FRUUHFW?

A 1RW WKDW , UHFDOO. 6KH PHnWLRnHG GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH.

:RUNLnJ Ln WKH CRXUWV IRU 20 yHDUV, ,'P wHOO DwDUH RI wKDW

GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH LV, VR --

4 'LG VKH GLVFXVV WKDW 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy KDG HYHU EHHn

SKyVLFDO wLWK KHU GXULnJ WKH FRXUVH RI WKHLU UHODWLRnVKLS?

A 1RW VSHFLILFDOOy, nR.

4 'LG VKH HYHU WHOO yRX WKDW KH SXW KLV KDnGV Rn KHU?


4 1RW WKDW yRX UHFDOO. 'R yRX UHFDOO -- OHW PH DVN yRX

WKLV: 6KH GLVFXVVHG LVVXHV wLWK yRX DV LW SHUWDLnHG WR

GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH KLVWRUy. :KDW GLG VKH GLVFXVV wLWK yRX?

A 'RPHVWLF YLROHnFH, LW FRYHUV PDny -- VKH wDVn'W

VSHFLILF. 6KH wDVn'W VSHFLILF. , NnRw WKDW GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH

FRXOG EH HPRWLRnDO, ILnDnFLDO, DnG SKyVLFDO.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, ,'P DVNLnJ -- FRXOG yRX

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78

SOHDVH GLUHFW WKH wLWnHVV WR DnVwHU Py TXHVWLRn?

THE COURT: 6KH DnVwHUHG LW, 0U. CHUYL. 6KH

VDLG VKH wDVn'W VSHFLILF.

MR. CERV,: 6R --

THE COURT: 6KH VDLG VKH WROG KHU DERXW LW DnG

VKH wDV nRW VSHFLILF. 0RYH Rn.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 $OO ULJKW. 'LG VKH GLVFXVV wLWK yRX WLPH GXULnJ WKH

UHODWLRnVKLS WKDW KH KDG EHHn YHUEDOOy DEXVLYH WRwDUGV KHU?


4 1RW WKDW yRX UHFDOO. 6R Ln Dny HYHnW, yRX wHUH DwDUH

RI D GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH KLVWRUy WKDW wDV UHODyHG WR yRX Ey

0V. 5LIRUG, FRUUHFW?

MR. MARGUL,S: 2EMHFWLRn DV WR WKH

FKDUDFWHUL]DWLRn RI D GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH KLVWRUy. , WKLnN WKH

wLWnHVV wRXOG EH DwDUH RI DOOHJDWLRnV RI D GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH

KLVWRUy, EXW KH'V LnYHnWLnJ IDFWV WKDW DUH nRW Ln HYLGHnFH.



BY MR. CERV,:

4 YRX DUH DwDUH WKDW 0V. 5LIRUG PDGH DOOHJDWLRnV RI

GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH WKDW wDV SHUSHWUDWHG DJDLnVW KHU Ey

0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy GXULnJ WKHLU UHODWLRnVKLS, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. :LWK WKDW, LW wRXOGn'W EH XnXVXDO WKHn IRU

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79

KHU WR wDnW WR SDUN DURXnG WKH FRUnHU, RU RXW RI VLJKW RI

0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. 6R IRU 0LVV 5LIRUG WR nRW wDnW WR EH DURXnG

0U. -- VWULNH WKDW. ,'OO wLWKGUDw WKDW.

1Rw, wLWK UHJDUGV WR WKH DOOHJDWLRnV RI GRPHVWLF

YLROHnFH, wKDW LV WKH SURWRFRO wLWK VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV, LI Dny,

WKDW UHODWHV WR Dny VHSDUDWLRn RI WKH SDUWLHV?

MR. MARGUL,S: $JDLn, -XGJH, , WKLnN ,'P JRLnJ

WR REMHFW Rn WKH EDVLV RI nR SURRI DV WR GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH,

RWKHU WKDn DOOHJDWLRnV RI GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH. $nG WKLV

TXHVWLRn, , WKLnN --

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG, 0U. CHUYL.

MR. CERV,: -XGJH, , DVNHG DOOHJDWLRnV RI

GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH, LI WKHUH'V FHUWDLn SURWRFROV. , WKLnN LW'V

D IDLU TXHVWLRn, -XGJH. ,'OO -- ,'OO UHSKUDVH LW.

THE COURT: ,W --

MR. CERV,: , EHOLHYH , MXVW VDLG WKLV, EXW --

THE COURT: $OO ULJKW.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 0V. .UDWW, wKHUH WKHUH DUH DOOHJDWLRnV RI GRPHVWLF

YLROHnFH, DUH WKHUH SURWRFROV Ln UHJDUGV WR VXSHUYLVHG YLVLWV

IRU NHHSLnJ WKH SDUWLHV VHSDUDWH IURP HDFK RWKHU?

A 2nOy LI WKHUH'V Dn 2UGHU RI 3URWHFWLRn WKDW'V Ln SODFH

DnG FXUUHnW.

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80

4 2NDy. $UH WKHUH Dny RWKHU SURWRFROV WKDW yRX'UH DwDUH

RI WKURXJK yRXU WUDLnLnJ IRU SHRSOH wKHUH WKHUH DUH

DOOHJDWLRnV RI GRPHVWLF YLROHnFH?

A :KHn , PHHW wLWK HYHUyRnH LnGLYLGXDOOy, , wRXOG -- ,

wRXOG DEVROXWHOy KDYH WDNHn .DWLH'V IHHOLnJV LnWR

FRnVLGHUDWLRn. ,I VKH WROG PH VKH wDV JRLnJ WR SDUN 20 VSDFHV

WR WKH OHIW DnG WwR VSDFHV IRUwDUG, , DEVROXWHOy wRXOG KDYH

NnRwn WKDW, EXW VKH nHYHU KDG WKDW FRnYHUVDWLRn wLWK PH. 6KH

nHYHU wDnWHG WR WDON wLWK PH DERXW FRnFHUnV WKDW VKH KDG.

4 1Rw, yRX'UH KHUH YROXnWDULOy WRGDy, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 YRX wHUHn'W VXESRHnDHG?

A 1R.

4 2NDy. BXW yRX wHUH SURPLVHG -- VWULNH WKDW.

:HUH yRX SDLG D WULDO UHWDLnHU XS IURnW?

A 1R.

4 2NDy. 1Rw, yRX VWDWHG Ln yRXU GLUHFW WHVWLPRny WKDW

yRX'UH D PDnGDWHG UHSRUWHU IRU C36; LV WKDW DFFXUDWH?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. 6R LI yRX REVHUYH DnyWKLnJ RFFXU GXULnJ

WKH DFFHVV WKDW -- yRX wRXOG KDYH WR -- WKDW FRXOG EH KDUPIXO

WR WKH FKLOG, yRX wRXOG KDYH WR FRnWDFW C36, FRUUHFW?

A CRUUHFW.

4 $OO ULJKW. $UH yRX DwDUH WKDW DIWHU WKH DFFHVV, WKH

FKLOG 0DVRn wDV WDNHn WR WKH KRVSLWDO IRU D GLDSHU UDVK, DnG

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81

WKH KRVSLWDO UHIHUUHG WR C36, PDGH D FDOO WR C36 DV D PDnGDWHG

UHSRUWHU? $UH yRX DwDUH RI WKDW?

A 1R, ,'P nRW.

4 :HUH yRX FRnWDFWHG Ey C36 DV -- Ln UHJDUGV WR Dny RSHn

C36 LnYHVWLJDWLRnV DJDLnVW 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy?

A 1R, , wDV nRW.

4 YRX wHUH nRW? :HUH yRX DOVR DwDUH WKDW WKHUH wDV D

VHFRnG C36 LnYHVWLJDWLRn DJDLnVW 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy?

A 1R.

4 $nG yRX'UH VDyLnJ yRX KDYHn'W EHHn FRnWDFWHG Ey DnyRnH

UHJDUGLnJ HLWKHU?

A 1R.

4 1Rw, Rn -XnH 30WK DnG -XOy 1VW, WKDW wDV Dn DFFHVV

SHULRG yRX REVHUYHG RI 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy DnG WKH FKLOGUHn,

FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 $nG , WKLnN yRX WHVWLILHG WKDW GXULnJ WKDW DFFHVV

SHULRG, LW wDV KRW DnG VXnny, ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 'R yRX UHFDOO wKDW WKH WHPSHUDWXUHV wHUH WKDW GDy?

A , GR nRW.

4 ,I , WROG yRX LW wDV Ln WKH 90V, wRXOG WKDW VRXnG

ULJKW WR yRX?

A ,I WKDW'V wKDW yRX WROG PH, , wRXOG -- , JXHVV , wRXOG

FRnVLGHU WKDW.

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82

4 2NDy. 1Rw, Ln UHJDUGV WR WKH FKLOG 2OLYLD, GRHV VKH

KDYH Dny KHDOWK FRnFHUnV?

A 6KH KDV DVWKPD.

4 2NDy. $nG WKDW wDV UHODyHG WR yRX Ey Py FOLHnW EHIRUH

DFFHVV, FRUUHFW?

A CRUUHFW.

4 $nG wLWK UHJDUGV WR KHU DVWKPD, Py FOLHnW DOVR

SURYLGHG yRX wLWK D GRFWRU'V nRWH UHJDUGLnJ UHVWULFWLRnV RI

KHU DFWLYLWLHV, ULJKW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG WKDW wDV EHIRUH WKH -XnH 30WK YLVLW,

FRUUHFW?

A , EHOLHYH LW wDV Rn WKH -- Rn WKDW GDy.

4 2NDy.

A 6KH JDYH PH WwR SLHFHV RI SDSHU, RnH IRU HDFK FKLOG.

4 $OO ULJKW. $nG WKH HVVHnFH RI LW wDV WKDW WKH -- WKH

FKLOG VKRXOG nRW EH H[SRVHG WR KHDW IRU OHnJWKy SHULRGV RI

WLPH; LV WKDW DFFXUDWH?

MR. CAFARELLA: -XGJH, ,'P JRLnJ WR REMHFW WR

wKDW WKH OHWWHU VDLG. ,W'V Dn RXW-RI-FRXUW VWDWHPHnW Ey D

GRFWRU. ,W'V KHDUVDy.

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG. $nG wH KDYH WR wUDS WKLV

XS, 0U. CHUYL. ,'P FORVH WR 25 WR 4:00, DnG , KDYH WR KHDU D

IDPLOy RIIHnVH VWLOO.


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83

THE COURT: 7wR PRUH PLnXWHV.

MR. CERV,: 7KDnN yRX, YRXU HRnRU. ,'P VRUUy,

wKDW wDV WKH UHVSRnVH?

THE COURT: 6XVWDLnHG WR WKH REMHFWLRn, wKLFK LV

UHIHUULnJ WR Dn RXW-RI-FRXUW VWDWHPHnW WR D GRFWRU.

MR. CERV,: 2NDy. $OO ULJKW.

BY MR. CERV,:

4 1Rw, wLWK UHJDUGV WR 2OLYLD, nRnHWKHOHVV, yRX DUH

DwDUH WKDW WKHUH wDV UHVWULFWLRnV UHODWHG WR KHU DVWKPD,

ULJKW?

A 1RW WR KHU DVWKPD.

4 :HOO, WKHUH wDV UHVWULFWLRnV DV WR KHU DFWLYLWLHV WKDW

UHODWHG WR KHU DVWKPD, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. $nG GHVSLWH WKDW, WKH FKLOGUHn -- ERWK FKLOGUHn

wHUH -- GLG RXWGRRU DFWLYLWLHV Rn -XnH 30WK DnG -XOy 1VW,

FRUUHFW?

A :H wHUH DW WKH ]RR --

4 2NDy.

A -- VR --

4 $nG EHIRUH yRX wHUH DW WKH ]RR, yRX wHUH Rn HHUWHO

$YHnXH, FRUUHFW?

A HHUWHO DnG 3DUNVLGH, yHV.

4 HHUWHO DnG 3DUNVLGH. $nG WKHn yRX wDONHG WR WKH ]RR

wLWK WKH WwR FKLOGUHn DnG 0U. 'LDUEDNHUOy?

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84

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. 6R -- DnG WKDW wDV Rn -XOy 1VW WKDW yRX

KDG 2OLYLD wDON WR WKH ]RR IURP WKHUH?

A YHV. FLUVW WKLnJ Ln WKH PRUnLnJ.

4 $nG KRw IDU wDV WKDW, RI D wDON?

A 7KUHH EORFNV.

4 /HW PH DVN yRX WKLV -- D EHWWHU TXHVWLRn -- KRw ORnJ

GLG LW WDNH yRX WR JHW WR WKH ]RR IURP WKH FRUnHU RI 3DUNVLGH

DnG HHUWHO?

A 0DyEH 15 PLnXWHV.

4 2NDy. 'XULnJ WKDW YLVLW, KRw ORnJ -- VWULNH WKDW.

HRw ORnJ wDV WKDW YLVLW Rn -XOy 1VW?

A :H wHUH SUREDEOy DW WKH ]RR wLWK ERWK NLGV IRU D

FRXSOH KRXUV.

4 2NDy. $nG GLG WKH YLVLW WKHn FRnWLnXH wLWK 2OLYLD DW

WKH ]RR DIWHU 0DVRn wDV SLFNHG XS?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. $nG KRw ORnJ wDV 2OLYLD WKHn DW WKH ]RR WKDW

GDy?

A 3UREDEOy IRU DnRWKHU WwR DnG D KDOI KRXUV.

4 6R DERXW IRXU DnG D KDOI KRXUV, WRWDO, VKH wDV DW WKH

]RR?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. $nG WKH FKLOG WKHn -- VWULNH WKDW.

7KH FKLOG 0DVRn wDV DW WKH ]RR, yRX VDLG, IRU

1

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85

DERXW WwR KRXUV WKDW GDy?

A $SSUR[LPDWHOy.

4 2NDy. $nG GXULnJ WKH WLPHIUDPH 0DVRn wDV WKHUH, GLG

yRX PDNH Dny REVHUYDWLRnV DERXW KLV PHGLFDO FRnGLWLRn RU

SKyVLFDO FRnGLWLRn?

A 1R. HH FULHG. HH wDV IXVVy. :H wHUH Ln -- PRVW RI

WKH WLPH, IRU WKH WLPH 0DVRn wDV WKHUH, wH wHUH Ln WKH JLIW

VKRS, wKHUH LW wDV FRRO.

4 6R yRXU WHVWLPRny LV WKDW 0DVRn wDV Ln WKH JLIW VKRS

PRVW RI WKH WLPH WKDW yRX KDG KLP?

A :H wHUH Ln WKH JLIW VKRS. :H OHIW WKH JLIW VKRS. :H

wHnW WR D PLVWLnJ WHnW. :H wHnW EDFN LnWR WKH JLIW VKRS.

4 2NDy. 6R WKLV wDV wKLOH yRX wHUH DW WKH ]RR wLWK WKH

FKLOG, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 $OO ULJKW. 7KH FKLOGUHn OLNH DnLPDOV?

A YHV.

4 6R WKH FKLOG wDV EURXJKW WR WKH DnLPDOV, ULJKW?

A ,'P VXUH. , GRn'W UHPHPEHU H[DFWOy wKLFK DnLPDOV.

4 ,Vn'W WKH SXUSRVH RI JRLnJ WR WKH ]RR WR VHH WKH

DnLPDOV, 0V. .UDWW?

A ,W LV, yHDK.

4 $OO ULJKW. 6R WKHn yRX wRXOG DJUHH WKDW WKH FKLOG

0DVRn wDV RXWVLGH REVHUYLnJ WKH DnLPDOV, ULJKW?

A HH wDV RXWVLGH IRU D YHUy VKRUW WLPH, EXW KH wDV DW

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86

WKH ]RR, DIWHU wH wDONHG WKHUH IURP EUHDNIDVW.

4 2NDy. 0V. .UDWW, DUH yRX EHLnJ SDLG Dny PRnHy RXWVLGH

IRU yRXU WHVWLPRny DnG IRU yRXU SUHSDUDWLRn DnG IRU WKH

YLVLWV? 7KDW'V DOO yRX'UH EHLnJ SDLG, FRUUHFW?

A YHV.

4 2NDy. 1Rw --

THE COURT: 0U. CHUYL, ,'P VRUUy. , KDYH WR

EUHDN yRX. :H KDYH WR EH RXW RI WKLV FRXUWKRXVH EHIRUH 5:00,

DnG , KDYH WR VWLOO VHH D IDPLOy RIIHnVH SHWLWLRn WKDW'V EHHn

ILOHG.


THE COURT: , DSRORJL]H IRU PDNLnJ yRX VWRS, EXW

wH'UH JRLnJ WR KDYH WR SLFN XS Rn 'HFHPEHU 6WK. 2NDy?

MR. CERV,: 7KDnNV, YRXU HRnRU.

MR. CAFARELLA: 7KDnN yRX, -XGJH.

(3rRFHHdinJs FRnFludHd DW 4:37 p.P.)

, KHUHEy FHUWLIy WKDW WKH IRUHJRLnJ LV D WUXH DnG DFFXUDWH

WUDnVFULSWLRn RI WKH SURFHHGLnJ.

$6H/EY ./E,16CH0,'7, 1Y$C5, 1Y5C5 2FF,C,$/ C2857 5E3257E5

Documents

Trial Transcript - Second Day 11.26.18 · 2018-11-26 · 05 , hv rxu rru 05 , ruuhfw 7+( &2857 :dw ph wr eulj khu edfn xs" 05 , 6xuh 7+( &2857 0v .udww rx uh vwloo xghu rdwk iurp