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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
SPECIAL INVESTIGATORY COMMITTEE ON JEA
SESSION #13
DATE: Monday, December 7, 2020
TIME: 5:03 p.m. - 5:28 p.m.
PLACE: Zoom
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT:
Brenda Priestly Jackson, Chair, District 10 Randy DeFoor, District 14 Tommy Hazouri, Council President, Group 3Joyce Morgan, District 1Ronald Salem, Group 2
ALSO PRESENT:
Dr. Cheryl Brown, Council Secretary/DirectorSteve Cassada, IT AdministratorMelanie Wilkes, Council Support ServicesEric Grantham, Council Support ServicesJeff Clements, Chief of ResearchYvonne Mitchell, Council ResearchHeather Reber, Council Auditor's OfficeJeff Rodda, Council Auditor's OfficePeggy Sidman, Office of General CounselJason Gabriel, Office of General CounselChris Garrett, Office of General CounselPaige Johnston, Office of General CounselSean Granat, Office of General CounselSteve Busey, Smith, Hulsey & BuseyKurtis Wilson, JEA
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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P R O C E E D I N G S
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: This
meeting of the Special Investigatory
Committee on JEA is called to order. The
time is 5:03 p.m.
Will we have those individuals on the
dais to please introduce yourselves for the
record.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Randy DeFoor,
District 14.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON:
Brenda Priestly Jackson --
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Tommy
Hazouri, Group 3 At-Large.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Brenda
Priestly Jackson, District 10.
MS. SIDMAN: Peggy Sidman, Office of
General Counsel.
MS. REBER: Heather Reber, Council
Auditor's Office.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank you
so much.
We will now have the invocation and
Pledge of Allegiance.
Council Member DeFoor.
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COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Thank you, Madam
Chair. We'll do the serenity prayer.
Dear God, please give us the serenity to
accept the things we cannot change, the
courage to change the things we can and the
wisdom to know the difference.
(Pledge of Allegiance.)
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: We are
going to accept speaker's cards or hands
raised until 5:35 p.m. for those who wish to
do public comments today, in light of the
fact that we had to cancel our meeting on
November 16th, which was scheduled for
public comment. Otherwise, we'll follow our
agenda as printed, which moves us now to
outside counsel update and overview of final
report.
Attorney Steve Busey.
MR. BUSEY: Madam Chair, Steve Busey,
Special Counsel to the Committee.
We are well in the process of preparing
the Committee's reports and collecting
comments from the Members of the Committee.
We have a handful of additional witnesses to
talk to, but we've pretty much covered that
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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territory. We expect to send the report to
a website designer in mid-December, at which
time it will be complete from our point of
view. We expect to have that back in
publishable form, printable and accessible
to the public on or before January the 11th,
2021.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank you
for that, Attorney Busey. Is there anything
you would like to share with us at this time
regarding the final report?
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Madam Chair,
I just don't have that agenda in front of
me. Did they hand them out?
The agenda, if y'all have one.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: They'll
bring one.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Is there
anything additional, Attorney Busey, you
would like to share with us regarding the
report?
MR. BUSEY: No, thank you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: I
couldn't --
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MR. BUSEY: No, ma'am.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Okay.
Thank you.
Committee Member DeFoor.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Thank you, Madam
Chair.
Through the Chair to Mr. Busey, I
understand there is additional interviews to
be made. Who else is going to be
interviewed?
MR. BUSEY: We have Mike Hightower
coming in on Wednesday morning. We have two
Council Persons to talk to about their
disclosures they made; it will be just brief
conversations. We're going to talk to Matt
Brockelman with the Southern Group, and
we're going to talk to Allen Maines with
Holland & Knight.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Thank you very
much.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: President
Hazouri, do you have any?
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: No. You
know, I may have made a mistake that there
was a draft ready. I know there is not one
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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to go out. And I just want to clarify that
we won't be getting anything until the end
of the month; correct?
MR. BUSEY: That's correct.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: December
30th, is it?
MR. BUSEY: By the time -- it will be
after the end of the month by the time it's
printed, but we'll get it to the printer and
the website designer before the end of the
month. And we'll send a report that we
accomplished that by the end of December.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Okay. Thank
you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON:
Mr. Busey, additionally, it's my
understanding that, once the report is
released, that there are going to be bound
copies of the report that you're going to
give out, as well as a chronology; is that
correct?
MR. BUSEY: That's right. Absent
contrary instruction from the Committee,
we're going to have printed 100 copies,
bound copies, of the report, which will be
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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in excess of 100 pages long, and we'll have
50 pages bound of the 350-page chronology;
all of which will be accessible to the
public on a website.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank you
so much.
And I believe, Mr. Council President,
you have shared that, for the second meeting
in January, that Mr. Busey will present that
information to the Members of the City
Council at that time; is that --
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Which day
was that? Is it the 12th?
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: The
meeting after that, the second meeting in
December.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Oh, the
second meeting, second meeting in January?
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: In
January, yes.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Anything
additional? Thank you so much, Mr. Busey.
We appreciate it.
MR. BUSEY: Thank you.
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: We now
move to Office of General Counsel, with our
General Counsel, Jason Gabriel.
Mr. Gabriel.
MR. GABRIEL: Good evening, Madam Chair.
Jason Gabriel, General Counsel.
I don't have anything else to add to
that, other than I did distribute our Office
of General Counsel disclosure index last
week, at the end of last week. And that has
hopefully -- I hope it's convenient when you
go through sort of the timeline. If you
click on the links, it will take you right
to the memo or the legal guidance that, you
know, is pertinent. And hopefully it's
self-explanatory. But other than that, I am
just available for any questions you may
have.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Council
Member DeFoor.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Through the
Chair to Mr. Gabriel, I just want to thank
you for that disclosure. I think it really
is -- was important that it was done and it
ties in with the rest of the disclosures.
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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So thank you for doing that.
MR. GABRIEL: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Council
President Hazouri.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Thank you.
So this is the anniversary, Mr. General
Counsel, from a year ago almost to today, I
guess, that all this started unfolding. And
y'all have done a great job.
You will be receiving the draft at some
point to go over it with your fine tooth
comb with the General Counsel's Office. Is
that -- what is your role now? Once it is
complete, will you be reviewing the draft?
MR. GABRIEL: Through the Chair to
Council President Hazouri, we're, obviously,
in communication with Special Counsel, as we
have been all along. At some point we'll
want to have, you know, an opportunity to
take a look at the draft -- we'll see when
that time is -- so that we can hopefully,
you know, to the extent we have any comments
that are productive or helpful to that
process, that, you know, they can be taken
into account. So I'll be conferring with
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Mr. Busey on that in the coming days.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Council
Member DeFoor.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Thank you, Madam
Chair.
I would just say that, you know, I have
no problem with, obviously, General Counsel
reviewing that, but that was done by
independent counsel and it needs to remain
as such is my feeling on that.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: I concur.
I don't think that Mr. Gabriel was saying
that he had to sign off on it or approve it,
clearly not pursuant to the legislation that
the City Council retained outside counsel
for this manner. I think that was regarding
-- my understanding is Mr. Gabriel and
Mr. Busey's offices are coordinating to
share whatever information is available at
this time relative to the final report; is
that --
MR. GABRIEL: Yeah.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Because
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there is nothing final that we received or
anything.
MR. GABRIEL: Thank you, Madam Chair.
That's exactly right. We just want to
make sure that -- you know, there may be
some facts or items they're not aware of
that we'd bring to their attention. And
that's how we've been working all along. So
that would be the only purpose of it, would
be to provide facts and information.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Anything
from anyone else?
Okay. I believe Councilman Salem is on
Zoom and he has his hand raised.
Councilman Salem, you're recognized.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Thank you, Chair.
I had my hand raised when Mr. Busey was
up. Could you, by chance, bring him back to
the podium?
Mr. Busey?
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: They're
sanitizing the podium, Councilman Salem.
Give them a moment.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Now I can see
him. Thank you.
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Mr. Busey, do you have any more
interviews that will be posted for review by
the Council Members?
MR. BUSEY: Yes. We -- last week we
interviewed at length Paul McElroy for a
third time, and that was transcribed. We
don't have the transcript yet, but we should
have it within a week or so.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Are there any
others, other than that, in the last couple
weeks that you'll be posting?
MR. BUSEY: I don't believe there are
any other than that. We interviewed Jody
Brooks, but we didn't transcribe it.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Will you be
posting Hightower, Brockelman or Allen
Maines?
MR. BUSEY: I don't -- Allen Maines may
be the only one of those that's going to be
transcribed. Hightower will not be
transcribed and Matt Brockelman will not be.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Would you notify
me when those are ready, if you don't mind?
MR. BUSEY: Yes, I will.
COUNCIL MEMBER SALEM: Thank you, sir.
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Thank you, Chair.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: You're
welcome, Councilman Salem.
Anything further? We now -- and we're
making -- we're moving rather quickly. We
now move to witnesses, subpoenas, documents
and related issues. And I believe our --
Mr. Busey stated the additional witnesses.
Mr. Busey, would you be so kind as to
just restate the names of those individuals
that you are still going to have
conversations with at this point in the
agenda, so we can -- if someone missed it
earlier?
MR. BUSEY: We've taken Patrick Greive's
deposition and Paul McElroy's, as I've said.
They'll be transcribed, but we don't have
them yet. We're going to be interviewing
Mike Hightower on Wednesday, but that's not
going to be transcribed. We're going to
interview Allen Maines, Matt Brockelman and
Anna Broche, and I don't expect any of those
to be transcribed.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank
you.
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Council Member DeFoor.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: Only -- through
the Chair to Mr. Busey, you have done an
outstanding job. And the amount of
interviews and the extensiveness of this
investigation, I just want to thank you.
And I look forward to reading your report in
its final form.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Council
President Hazouri.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: I think I
said that last week, Mr. Busey. Is there a
claw back in your contract that we can get
some of that money back?
MR. BUSEY: I'm going to recommend
against that.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Y'all have
done it to the T, I guarantee it. No, we do
appreciate it. And working hand in hand
with our General Counsel is very much
appreciated. I think this is probably the
most thorough, and I don't want to repeat
the 6,000, what, pages -- is that what it
was -- or texts or what have you. All that
y'all have gone through and all the time
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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that you spent. And it's what, just, I
think, four people and your researcher.
Y'all have done an excellent job. And I
don't think we could thank you or say enough
about what y'all have done.
And you've done it for -- as a --
regardless of getting paid, you've done it
for this community. And it's been a
blessing for us. And it's helped us move
forward and keeping an eye on other type of
situations like this so we can imply early
on what is going on and what lies beneath
before it gets to the point where it became
that debacle that it did over this past
year. Thank you very much.
And thank the General Counsel and our
own Council Auditor, as well, if she's
listening. It was a wonderful job. And I'm
looking forward to the final report. Thank
you.
MR. BUSEY: Thank you, Mr. President.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank
you.
I am going to echo the sentiments of the
other Committee Members. And I want to
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thank Attorney Busey for his openness and
willingness and his desire to delve deeply
into the issues to help us as a council
fulfill the charge. And so my understanding
of the final report will be that there will
be recommendations relative to what we may
need to do additionally as a legislative
body in terms of addressing concerns with
our Charter, our procurement policies,
ethical considerations and other matters.
So I just want to thank you for that, and
thank you for dutifully and diligently
working with each of us and receiving our
input and insight.
I think that the public is going to be
very encouraged by the level and quality of
the work, as well as the diligence afforded,
the time put in by Attorney Busey to get
those questions answered. And to have the
answers our community needs in terms of
transparency and a lot of that being, you
know, how we can better as a council adhere
to Florida Sunshine, adhere to our Charter
mandates and make certain that we don't find
ourself in this situation going forward.
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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I want to take an opportunity at this
time, as the Chair, to also thank Councilman
Dennis. And I'm thanking Councilman Dennis
because he had the hindsight -- the
foresight to know in September of 2019 that
we as a body would need to set aside funds
to be able to retain outside counsel. I
don't know that anyone else on the Council
at that time had that level of vision and
foresight.
So I -- and we will be remiss to not
acknowledge him, because it was through his
legislation that he advanced and the
Council's voting in support of it which
allowed us to be able to get Mr. Busey's
firm to help us address these issues to
better protect our neighbors going forward.
So I want to take that opportunity to say
that.
I'm looking forward to the timeline. It
is going to be a very telling timeline on
what happened when. And I am looking
forward to making certain that we -- you
know, allay any fears or concerns of our
neighbors and others relative to what our
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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role is and what our position is in relation
to independent authorities or handling the
people's business.
So I just -- again, thank you,
Mr. Busey, and thank Councilman Dennis, who
I'm certain is working right now, for his
vision and foresight as a carryover from the
other Council to know that we needed those
funds.
Council President Hazouri.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ditto to what you said about Councilman
Dennis. You know, people can say that, you
know, he speaks out all the time about
different things, but he does it because
he's smart and he does have that foresight.
And I give him all the credit in the world
for what he does and what he says. Some may
not like the way he makes his presentations.
I love it because I think that he tells it
like it is.
But as important, I think, is that, you
know, what he saw is what we're continuing
to see. And I think what broke this open in
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FIRST COAST COURT REPORTERS
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the first place is something similar to
what's going on now, it's about trust. And
we tend to trust those players who are
involved in the authorities and in the
administration. And I think this has taught
us a real lesson. And now I think we'll be
more cognizant of what goes on. We should
be anyway. But who would know? But now we
do know. And we're not going to look over
our shoulders, we're going to be ahead of
them.
And I think that even you, Madam Chair,
when you said that this thing should have
gone to the General Counsel's Office before,
I mean, the 30-day bit that's in the --
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Council
Auditor.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Council
Auditor, I meant, not the General Counsel.
I don't want to be blamed on this one, so we
pass on this one then, Jason.
But, yeah, to the Council Auditor. So,
you know, it could have stopped in its
tracks, but it didn't and the beat went on.
And thank God that we were able to have a
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real Christmas celebration by saving
millions upon millions of dollars
potentially of our city taxpayers' dollars
and the ratepayers.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Do we
have any comments from the public? Any
hands raised?
This has been a long road. I want to
let everybody know it's been a long road. I
actually -- since we have a little time,
since I said I would give folks a few
minutes to get their comments in, I'm going
to talk for a moment.
I was reflecting earlier today about
Council Member DeFoor. I sat where you're
sitting, close to where you sit, Attorney
Sidman and Ms. DeFoor sat on the other side.
And as I was reading today, I was tickled
when I realized, when we were told we were
under a cone of silence, that it extended to
us. And I think across -- when I looked
across at Council Member DeFoor, if her head
could have blew off of her at that time, it
might have. She turned so red across when
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that was going on. So I am thankful that we
have gone from that.
And it was a lot, guys, it was a lot.
It was quite a bit. It was a lot for a new
Councilman, a lot to undertake, but I'm
grateful that we were called together for
such a time as this. And we now still
maintain ownership of our municipal utility.
Any other business? Nobody is in the
queue, Ms. Mitchell, is it?
If no one comes on in the next three
minutes, then -- Council Member DeFoor wants
to share.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: I'll just say
that, you know, I am a true redhead. And I
think that we've learned a lot about what
works and what doesn't work. And I think,
you know, we're still learning. I mean,
we're seeing -- continuing to see issues
with this Council, quite frankly, that I'm
looking forward to taking those
recommendations and acting on them, because
there are times when this Council does not
have, in my opinion, proper representation.
Lot J is a great example where we don't have
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really our own representation in that
process, and it just continues.
So I think it's a great opportunity to
see how we can improve our current system
and go from there.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: One last
thing. Lest we forget, thank you. We
appreciate -- since you took over, we moved
this along. There is no politics into it,
we did our job. And I want to thank Randy
and you and Scott before that. And I
appreciate it.
And I think the citizens appreciate the
work you've done and the work you've done,
Randy, before I got here, but you know, I
kept a watchful eye listening and talking
and trying to make sure that we're doing
what we needed to do.
And you have gone beyond the call of
duty. And I thank you, Brenda, for doing
that. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Yeah, I
was trying to give time. I gave time for
people to do their public comments, and so
it would kind of be rude if I just really
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say we're done. So I'm still -- we said we
were going to give it a few more minutes.
As long as you're going to talk about
SIC.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Do I have
to?
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Yes.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Indirectly.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: SIC JEA,
no extraneous issues, Mr. Council President.
COUNCIL PRESIDENT HAZOURI: Just an
announcement, it just came across. It's not
the SIC. I think they officially announced,
I think, Former Mayor John Delaney is -- and
president has taken over -- I think he and
Mike Weinstein are in competition for who
can have the most positions. He's just been
appointed as the Interim President of
Flagler College, so anyway. Representing
Holland & Knight -- no.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: All right.
Since we're burning some time.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: We're
wasting time for public comment.
COUNCIL MEMBER DeFOOR: I do want to
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thank you, Madam Chair, for your work in
this matter. I mean, there were times when
it didn't look so pretty, and you -- I
remember looking at you, and you just always
knew that everything was going to be okay.
And I just want to thank you for that
courage that you had during that time and --
because this community really, really -- I
mean, think about it, we were about to sell
our only asset. God knows where the money
would have gone. And we would have been
laden with debt with Plant Vogtle. And if
it sold, our taxpayers would have paid
higher rates. It was a lose-lose.
And again, I just want to thank you for
your encouragement and your leadership.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank you
for that.
I believe in divine order. I think we
were divinely ordered to be where we are at
this time to deal with this. Not that
anyone runs for City Council to deal with a
rogue utility. I just want to let the
record reflect that's not what any of us
thought we would be doing. But we were
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divinely called for such a time as this.
And in grace and humility, we met the
challenge.
Public comment. I'm trying to see.
There is no one.
Council Member Morgan, you're
recognized.
COUNCIL MEMBER MORGAN: Thank you so
much, Madam Chair.
I just wanted to echo all of the
sentiments that have been said tonight about
this Committee, about the work of this
Committee, about the commitment of this
Committee. We appreciate you. And we know
that, because of your work, because of your
diligence, all of you, that we're going to
be able to move forward in a positive
direction as JEA is concerned.
So I know that you're waiting for
anybody to come up with public comment, so I
just thought I would take this moment to,
you know, just to let you know how much you
are appreciated and the fine work that all
of you have done. So thank you all.
CHAIRPERSON PRIESTLY JACKSON: Thank you
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so much, Council Member Morgan. We
appreciate that.
Seeing no hands raised in the queue,
seeing no one in our socially distanced
chambers, this final meeting of the SIC on
JEA Special Investigatory Committee is
adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at 5:28 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
STATE OF FLORIDACOUNTY OF DUVAL
I, Amanda E. Robinson, Registered
Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime
Captioner, do hereby certify that I was
authorized to and did report the foregoing
proceedings; and that the transcript, pages 1
through 26, is a true record of my stenographic
notes.
DATED this 21st day of December, 2020.
Amanda E. Robinson, Registered Professional Reporter,
Certified Realtime Captioner