Seferis Interviewed by Edmond Keeley

8/17/2019 Seferis Interviewed by Edmond Keeley

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especiall% after hes trapped his listener with the 2!estion' ;+h% are %o! la!ghing


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C!t dont %o! feel o!t of place among so man% scientists< So man% historians<

SB*#S

/o, beca!se # am attracted b% people whose interests are not in m% own area.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! think theres an advantage)as # think avaf% wo!ld probabl% have tho!ght)to

being in dialog!e with historians< #n other words, do %o! feel that histor% has something

partic!lar to sa% to the poet<

SB*#S

#f %o! remember, avaf% was proud of having a sense of histor%. He !sed to sa%' ;# am a

man of histor%=)something like that, # dont remember the e3act 2!otation. # am not that wa%

b!t still, # feel the press!re of histor%. #n another wa%, perhaps' more m%thological, more

abstract, or more concrete . . . # dont know.

#/(*?#+*

How abo!t the relation of the 0reek poet to his partic!lar historical tradition< -o! once said

that there is no ancient 0reece in 0reece. +hat did %o! mean b% that e3actl%<

SB*#S

# meant 0reece is a contin!o!s process. #n nglish the e3pression ;ancient 0reece= incl!des

the meaning of ;finished,= whereas for !s 0reece goes on living, for better or for worse it

is in life, has not e3pired %et. (hat is a fact. Ane can make the same arg!ment when one

disc!sses the pron!nciation of ancient 0reek. -o!r scholars in $merica or in ngland or in

Brance ma% be 2!ite right in adopting the rasmic pron!nciation' for them 0reek is a dead

lang!age b!t for !s it is another stor%. (he fact is, %o! consider that ancient 0reek has

terminated its f!nction at a certain point, and this enables %o! to prono!nce it)with m% regrets

)in an arbitrar% wa%.

#/(*?#+*


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(hen %o! obvio!sl% see the 0reek tradition in lang!age, as well as in other things, as a

contin!o!s process. (hat is not the belief of some classical and C%7antine scholars in this

co!ntr%)and, # s!ppose, elsewhere.

SB*#S

-o! know wh% that happens< Ceca!se the s!bect, the histor%, of 0reece is so large that each

scholar limits himself to a certain period or branch, and nothing e3ists o!tside of it. Bor

e3ample, 0ibbon considered that a tho!sand %ears of life were a decline. How can a people be in

decline for a tho!sand %ears< $fter all, between the Homeric poems and the birth of hrist eight

h!ndred %ears elapsed)or something like that)and then pres!mabl% there were a tho!sand

%ears of decline.

#/(*?#+*

An the 2!estion of the 0reek poets relation to his tradition, it has alwa%s seemed to me that

the 0reek poet has an advantage over his $nglo"Sa3on co!nterpart who makes !se of 0reek

m%tholog% and sometimes even of 0reek landscape. # remember %ears ago when # was writing a

thesis on what # tho!ght were nglish infl!ences in the poetr% of avaf% and Seferis, # asked %o!

abo!t certain images that crop !p in %o!r landscape, for e3ample, the s%mbolic meaning of the

stat!es that appear in %o!r work. -o! t!rned to me and said' ;C!t those are real stat!es. (he%

e3isted in a landscape # had seen.= +hat # think %o! were sa%ing is that %o! alwa%s start with the

fact of a living, act!al setting and move from there to an% !niversal meaning that might be

contained in it.

SB*#S

$n ill!stration of that from someone who is a specialist in classical stat!es came the other

da% from an nglish scholar who was lect!ring abo!t the stat!ar% of the &arthenon. # went !p to

congrat!late him after his lect!re, and he said to me, as # remember' ;C!t %o! have a line which

e3presses something of what # meant when %o! sa% the stat!es are not the r!ins)we are the

r!ins.= # mean # was astonished that a scholar of his caliber was !sing a line from me to

ill!strate a point.

#/(*?#+*


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(he imager% that a poet gets from his childhood is something weve disc!ssed before. -o!

once disting!ished %o!rself from the average nglishman b% s!ggesting that donke%s probabl%

did for %o! what footballs and cars might do for them. # remember %o! also talked abo!t the sea

and the sailors of %o!r native village near Sm%rna.

SB*#S

-o! know, the strange thing abo!t imager% is that a great deal of it is s!bconscio!s, and

sometimes it appears in a poem, and nobod% knows wherefrom this emerged. C!t it is rooted, #

am certain, in the poets s!bconscio!s life, often of his childhood, and thats wh% # think it is

decisive for a poet' the childhood that he has lived.

# think there are two different things f!nctioning' conscio!s and s!bconscio!s memor%. #

think the wa% of poetr% is to draw from the s!bconscio!s. #t is not the wa% %o! write %o!r

memoirs, lets sa%, or the wa% %o! tr% to remember %o!r past, %o!r earl% life. # remember man%

things from m% childhood which did impress me. Bor instance, when # was a child # discovered

somewhere in a corner of a sort of b!ngalow we had in m% grandmothers garden)at the place

where we !sed to spend o!r s!mmers)# discovered a compass from a ship which, as # learned

afterwards, belonged to m% grandfather. $nd that strange instr!ment)# think # destro%ed it in

the end b% e3amining and re"e3amining it, taking it apart and p!tting it back together and then

taking it apart again)became something m%thical for me. Ar again, when a!t!mn approached,

when there wo!ld be a rather strong wind, and the fishing barges wo!ld have to sail thro!gh

ro!gh weather, we wo!ld alwa%s be glad when the% were at last anchored, and m% mother wo!ld

sa% to someone among the fishermen whod gone o!t' ;$h, bravo, %o!ve come thro!gh ro!gh

weather= and he wo!ld answer' ;adam, %o! know, we alwa%s sail with haron at o!r side.=

(hats moving to me. &erhaps when # wrote abo!t Ul%sses in that earl% poem %o!ve commented

on E;Upon a Boreign ?erse=F)perhaps # had in mind somebod% like that fisherman. (hose

;certain old sailors from m% childhood= who wo!ld recite the Erotokritos. #n an% case, # think it

is alwa%s a bit dangero!s to make !nconscio!s images conscio!s, to bring them o!t into the

light, beca!se, %o! know, the% dr% o!t immediatel%.

#/(*?#+*

Have %o! felt an% b!rden from having spent so man% %ears writing for a tin% a!dience)an

a!dience so small in the earl% %ears of %o!r career that %o! had to p!blish %o!r work at %o!r own


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e3pense and iss!ed something !nder three h!ndred copies of each vol!me< (hat is a sit!ation

2!ite !nfamiliar to an established $merican poet.

SB*#S

#ll give %o! an e3ample. +hen # p!blished m% first vol!me, Strophe ETheTurning Point F, #

iss!ed 1G copies. (hat was in 19I1. $nd # remember that in 19I9 there were still copies

available at the bookseller)copies that # withdrew from circ!lation so that # co!ld bring o!t a

new edition of the vol!me in 19J. C!t # m!st sa% that soon after that things began to change a

bit. +hen # left for g%pt after the collapse of 0reece in the war against 0erman%, # left behind

me three editions of m% work) Log Book I, Mythistorema, and Book of Exerises, besides the

earlier vol!mes !istern and Strophe)left them there all brand new, witho!t having sold a single

cop% before # sailed for rete and airo with the 0reek government in e3ile, as %o! know. D!ringm% absence ever%thing was sold o!t. +hen # came back, no copies remained. (he foreign

occ!pation)enem% occ!pation)had given the 0reek p!blic the opport!nit% of concentration

and reading. $nd # reckoned that when # ret!rned at the end of the occ!pation # was m!ch

better known in 0reece than before.

#/(*?#+*

#ts a ver% strange phenomenon, the revival of interest in poetr% d!ring the period of the

occ!pation in 0reece. #ve heard abo!t this from other poets' 0atsos and l%tis, for e3ample.

&oetr% became an activit% that bro!ght together the $thenian intellect!als for readings and

disc!ssion, so that in a wa% it became the richest period for poetr% in this cent!r% after the

period of the thirties.

SB*#S

l%tis p!blished his book d!ring the occ!pation, and 0atsos his' # mean the

famo!s "morgos came o!t d!ring the occ!pationK

#/(*?#+*

+hat happened after the occ!pation< +h% was there silence for so long among the leading

poets


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SB*#S

#t wasnt silence. (imes had changed, and hori7ons had widened, and ever%bod% tried to see

more of life o!tside the co!ntr% the% were tr%ing to find new modes of e3pression.

#/(*?#+*

# wonder if %o! have felt an%thing new and interesting thro!gh reading to large p!blic

a!diences in this co!ntr%. (he evidence of friends of mine who have no knowledge at all of

0reek is that the% have capt!red, from %o!r reading in 0reek, a different sense of the poetr%s

rh%thm from what the% get o!t of m% reading in nglish.

SB*#S

(hat is ver% important. C!t # can sa% something more abo!t this e3perience of reading in

$merica. (he other da% another poet reacted b% sending me a poem abo!t m% reading. (hat is a

new kind of response. C!t still, the important thing is to see reactions, not to be appla!ded or

not appla!ded.

#/(*?#+*

$fter %o!r reading at *!tgers this fall, someone in the a!dience asked %o! what %o! tho!ght

of the nglish translations of %o!r poetr%, and %o! went on to make genero!s gest!res towards

%o!r nglish translators, b!t then %o! added' ;Af co!rse the best translation of m% poetr% is in

hinese, a lang!age which # dont !nderstand at all.=

SB*#S

#t isnt diffic!lt to elaborate on that beca!se, %o! know, # feel in lang!ages that # know,

perhaps beca!se # know them too well 4not nglish, b!t in Brench, for e3ample, which # know

reall% well5 that there are other possibilities in the translation. Bor hinese there are no otherpossibilities. C!t translating)#m changing the 2!estion a little bit)is interesting alwa%s

beca!se it is a means of controlling %o!r own lang!age. /ow of co!rse the nglish lang!age is a

more stable lang!age than o!rs we have to create o!rs, so to speak, all the time we are writing.

#/(*?#+*


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&o!nd said that translation is a means for a writer to sharpen contin!all% his awareness of

his own lang!age, and he advised %o!ng poets to translate whenever the% co!ld.

SB*#S

&rovided %o! dont overdo it, # think it is alwa%s !sef!l.

#/(*?#+*

-o! are a poet who writes in a lang!age which few people know o!tside 0reece. # wonder if

%o! feel an% resentment of the fact that %o! are known in the world of poetr% o!tside %o!r own

co!ntr% largel% thro!gh translation.

SB*#S

(here are compensations. Bor e3ample, abo!t a %ear ago, # received a letter from an

$merican sa%ing to me' ;+ell, # have learned modern 0reek in order to read Seferis.= (hats a

great compliment, # think. #t is m!ch more personal than the case of a man who learns a foreign

lang!age at school, isnt it< #ve heard other people sa%' ;+ell, %o! know, we learned o!r 0reek

from %o!r poems.= $ great reward. $nd then # sho!ld add, perhaps, this sit!ation of not having a

ver% large a!dience has something good in it, too. # mean, that it ed!cates %o! in a certain wa%'

not to consider that great a!diences are the most important reward on this earth. # consider that

even if # have three people who read me, # mean reall% read me, it is eno!gh. (hat reminds me of

a conversation # had once !pon a time d!ring the onl% glimpse # ever had of Henri icha!3. #t

was when he had a stopover in $thens, coming from g%pt, # think. He came ashore while his

ship was in &irae!s !st in order to have a look at the $cropolis. $nd he told me on that

occasion' ;-o! know, m% dear, a man who has onl% one reader is not a writer. $ man who has

two readers is not a writer, either. C!t a man who has three readers=)and he prono!nced ;three

readers= as tho!gh the% were three million);that man is rea##y a writer.=

#/(*?#+*

-o! said earlier there is a problem in 0reek of establishing a lang!age. (hats something

which most $merican readers nat!rall% dont !nderstand. +e have a lang!age. A!r problem is

alwa%s to stretch the lang!age which we have so that it somehow shows a new vitalit%. +hen %o!

talk abo!t establishing or creating a lang!age, %o! mean something 2!ite different.


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SB*#S

+eve had the calamit% of academic intervention. ark %o!, # mean from both the left and

the right. #n the beginning we had the intervention of professors who wanted to transform o!r

living lang!age into something abstract in order to reach some sort of ;idea= of a p!re lang!age.

An the other side, we had the fight fordemotiki, as we call the pop!lar spoken lang!age. C!t this

tradition)the professorial tradition)was so strong that there was a sort of academic mind

which fo!ght activel% for both the p!ristic and the vernac!lar lang!age. (he best wa% to progress

is b% forgetting all that academic intervention. Bor e3ample, # admire ver% m!ch the retan

*enaissance. #n that period %o! find a whole poem)ten tho!sand lines, an enormo!s poem)

where there is no strain at all, no effort at all the lang!age f!nctions 2!ite nat!rall%, witho!t

an% flagrant tendenc% to be learned.

#/(*?#+*

#ts interesting that %o! take an effortless poem for a model beca!se # remember that, in

another conte3t, %o! described st%le as the diffic!lt% one enco!nters in e3pressing himself.

SB*#S

# said that in lect!ring abo!t akri%annis, who, as %o! know, never learned how to write or

read !ntil the age of thirt%"five. +hen %o! see his man!script, it is like a wall)a wall b!ilt !p o!tof stones, one placed on top of the other. #t is ver% strange. Bor e3ample, he never !ses

p!nct!ation at all. /o paragraphs. /othing. #t goes on like that. $nd %o! see that each word is

added to another word like a stone on top of another stone. # mean, in an% case, that when %o!

reall% feel something, %o! face the diffic!lt% of e3pressing it. $nd that, after all, forms %o!r st%le.

#/(*?#+*

+hat are the diffic!lties %o!ve enco!ntered in establishing %o!r own st%le<

SB*#S

(hats another stor%. #n m% %o!th # worked ver% m!ch over the 0reek lang!age. 0lossaries,

old te3ts, medieval te3ts, and things of that kind. C!t the diffic!lt% wasnt onl% in st!d%ing them


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the diffic!lt% was how to forget them and be nat!ral. # had the blessing, perhaps, of being

nat!ral, # dont know. (hats for others to sa% . . .

#/(*?#+*

# know %o! alwa%s considered it the first order of b!siness for a poet to tr% for econom% in

st%le. (his seems to be in contrast to the dominant mode of %o!r predecessors)at least the

mode of &alamas and Sikelianos.

SB*#S

(hats perhaps a local characteristic. # felt at the time of m% earl% efforts that in 0reece the%

were too rhetorical, and # reacted against it. (hat was m% feeling. $nd # reacted against it in

man% wa%s. Bor e3ample, in the !se of words, of adectives)especiall% compo!nd adectives,

which # avoided. (o avoid certain things is deliberate with me, %o! know. % interest in

e3pression was not so m!ch in the color of the lang!age, which 0reek has plent% of, b!t in

precision above all and in order to be precise, %o! have to be spare in the !se of %o!r material.

-o! remember that ?aler% said l%ricism is, after all, the development of an e3clamation, of an

;$h.= Bor me ;$h= is 2!ite eno!gh. # never tr% to elaborate on the e3clamation.

#/(*?#+*

@et me p!rs!e the matter of st%le as process of !sing lang!age sparingl%. Do %o! agree that

in %o!r own work there is a development, a f!rther econom% of means, between Strophe and

ever%thing that followed it<

SB*#S

Af co!rse. #t is not so m!ch a st%listic development as a sort of evol!tion. ver%thing

evolves. # mean, one has to evolve)one has to see new things. Ane has to see other aspects and

e3press these other aspects. ertainl% there is an evol!tion, b!t # dont see it as a ;development=

in inverted commas. #f # had %ears more in front of me, # wo!ld perhaps write in another wa%,

even in another st%le. # might again !se the strict line or rh%med verse, perhaps. #n poetr% %o!

change the base of things from time to time in order to have a fresh e3pression. (he main thing

%o! are looking for in poetr% is to avoid worn"o!t e3pressions. (hats the great problem.


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#/(*?#+*

+hat abo!t the problem of developing a prose st%le< -o! are one of the ver% few poets in

0reece who has had almost as strong an impact on the lang!age of prose criticism as %o!ve had

on the lang!age of poetr%. Developing a live %et caref!l prose st%le m!st have been part of %o!r

str!ggle from the beginning.

SB*#S

-es, b!t, %o! know, m% str!ggle was alwa%s for precision. (hat is at the base of it. $nd of

co!rse in prose it appears more obvio!s)# mean the matter of econom%.

#/(*?#+*

(his tape machine seems to have stopped recording. Sa% something and lets see if its still

working properl%.

SB*#S

+allace Stevens was in an ins!rance compan%.

#/(*?#+*

@ets hope it will go on with !s for a while. Ane of %o!r remarks which has interested me is

abo!t the 2!estion of the relation between poetr% and p!blic service # think %o! said that the

important thing was for the poet not to have a ob which was directl% connected with that of

being a poet.

SB*#S

# didnt sa% the ;important= thing. # dont know, reall%, beca!se # cant speak for other

people b!t for me at least, # s!ppose that it is a help not to be in a ob where # have to write as #

write in m% notebooks or poetr% books. Bor e3ample, # am not a professor or a teacher or even a

newspaperman. # prefer to have another occ!pation.

#/(*?#+*


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+as there an%thing in %o!r professional career)that is, the e3perience %o! had as a

diplomat)which ma% have infl!enced in some wa% the imager% of %o!r poetr% or affected the

partic!lar themes %o! chose to e3press<

SB*#S

# dont believe that an% themes or an% imager% were created b% m% ob, tho!gh # might

mention)how did %o! translate it


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sho!ld be elaborated as feeling. # dont consider that $esch%l!s was making a propaganda pla%

b% p!tting the s!ffering &ersians on stage, or desperate Ler3es, or the ghost of Dari!s, and so

forth. An the contrar%, there was h!man compassion in it. Bor his enemies. /ot that hes not of

co!rse glad that the 0reeks won the battle of Salamis. C!t even then he showed that Ler3es

defeat was a sort of divine retrib!tion' a p!nishment for the h!bris that Ler3es committed in

flagellating the sea. Since his h!bris was to flagellate the sea, he was p!nished e3actl% $y the sea

in the battle of Salamis.

#/(*?#+*

#s it possible to compare poetr% across national lines< Ar do we alwa%s have to make

2!alitative comparisons strictl% within a single tradition<

SB*#S

# feel a sort of rel!ctance abo!t comparing poets. #t is ver% diffic!lt)even within the same

tradition. (r% to compare Dante and $lfred, @ord (enn%son, for e3ample' +hat that wo!ld lead

to, # dont know. Ar, in the Brench tradition, how can %o! compare *acine and ?ictor H!go< -o!

have to go ver% deep, to the bottom of the tradition, in order to find some sort of common

gro!nd where the comparison can fairl% take place. An the other hand, for e3ample, # m%self

!sed -eats in m% Stockholm acceptance speech beca!se # had been reading, !st a few months

before m% trip to Stockholm, ;(he Co!nt% of Sweden,= where he reco!nts the whole affair of his

election to the /obel &ri7e' his trip to Stockholm, the ceremon%, and ever%thing. $nd there # felt

a sort of relation with him as a h!man being)not as a poet b!t as a h!man being beca!se -eats

belonged to a small co!ntr% with a great folklore tradition, a co!ntr% which, after all, had

political t!rmoil. C% the wa%, theres another e3ample of a p!blic poet who doesnt write

propaganda. He writes, for e3ample, a poem abo!t an #rish airman which isnt at all

propaganda. ;(hose # fight # do not hate)= etc. Ar he writes ;(he Second oming.= (hat, too, is

not propaganda' ;(he center cannot hold,= etc., which after all starts somewhere in #rish

political life b!t it goes deeper, and thats the whole point, # think.

#/(*?#+*

-o!ve mentioned at %o!r readings, in talking abo!t ;(he >ing of $sine,= the fact that it had

taken %o! two %ears to find a wa% of writing abo!t that partic!lar e3perience, and then, at some


14/33

point, after having given %o!r notes for that poem to a friend, %o! completed the final draft in

one long evening. liot has implied that %o! finished the poem 4between ten &.. and three in

the morning5 e3actl% beca!se %o! didnt have %o!r notes before %o!.

SB*#S

# had no notes. $nd he ma% have been right. # dont know. #n m% home in $thens, # have all

m% papers and m% books. $nd # wonder if thats a helpf!l thing or not, if its not better to have

!st a blank writing desk witho!t an% papers or an% books at all, where %o! can sit at reg!lar

ho!rs ever% da%.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! normall% make notes on the e3perience of a poem before %o! write it<

SB*#S

Ah, there are man% wa%s. Sometimes # do. Sometimes # do not. (here are things which %o!

have to remember, and # have to record these somewhere, so of co!rse # make notes. Bor

e3ample, there is a poem where # have !sed the chronographer akhairas, where it was

impossible to avoid referring to that stor% abo!t the demon of fornication.

#/(*?#+*

# didnt mean notes once the poem has been composed in %o!r mind, b!t notes on the

e3perience which, in effect, becomes the poem.

SB*#S

/o, # dont do that. +hen # sa% notes, # mean there are those on the material, notes which

are needed beca!se the% are descriptive. $nd there are notes that are ideas, poetical ideas. Bor

e3ample, poetical e3pressions, poetical !tterances, that is the kind of notes # mean. #f # were to

write a poem abo!t %o!)# might make a note that ;ike has ceased to smoke for man% %ears.= #

mean if the things so!nd well in 0reek to m% ear, # co!ld write it. (hats all)things which are

indifferent to other people. (hese # call poetical notes. Sometimes # disregard them altogether,

and sometimes # go back to them. Sometimes, when the% are 2!ite forgotten, b% having a


15/33

glimpse at them, # sa%' ;Ah, that poem was rather interesting,= altho!gh the% dont sa% an%thing

at all to the ordinar% person. Still, the% take me back to a certain atmosphere which, in the

meantime, has been working, elaborating, a form in m% mind.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! keep these notes or do %o! destro% them<

SB*#S

Ah, # destro% a lot. Some months ago in $thens)there was somebod%, a sort of Hellenist,

who was interested in photographing notes. $nd # had the impression that # had kept m% notes

on The !istern. # looked for them in all m% files, and it appeared to me then that # had destro%ed

them. (he onl% thing that # fo!nd was the ;/otes for a +eek= which have been p!blished 2!ite

recentl%)that is, the two missing poems from that gro!p.

#/(*?#+*

#m sorr% abo!t that, in a wa%, beca!se # think The !istern is a poem that all of !s have

fo!nd obsc!re in places, and the notes might have helped)might have helped me, an%wa%.

SB*#S

Dont complain abo!t it. (he% might have made the poem m!ch more obsc!re, %o! know.

Bor e3ample, the general idea abo!t m% evol!tion in poetr% is' ;$h, %o! see, Seferis started with

reg!lar lines, rh%mes, strict versification, and then he moved to free verse.= +hen # see m%

notes, # see that the main poem of Strophe, the ;rotikos @ogos,= appears to be in ver% strict

versification b!t m% notes show me that this poem was also written in free verse. # have fo!nd

some of the first drafts.

#/(*?#+*

+o!ld %o! ever consider p!blishing them<

SB*#S

C% 0od, no.


16/33

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! think thats the reason liot was so caref!l abo!t not rediscovering the lost parts

of The %aste Land, which have now been rediscovered<

SB*#S

+hen he told me the stor% abo!t the writing of The %aste Land, he seemed 2!ite desperate

abo!t the man!scripts being lost. An the other hand, he also told me how !sef!l)he stressed

that point)how usefu# the intervention of &o!nd had reall% been.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! approve of p!blishing discarded things<

SB*#S

# dont know it depends. #t needs a great deal of tact. /ot b% the poet himself b!t b% his

editors. #f the% p!blish them, the% tend to stress that the% are all"important discoveries, and #

think this is bad. Averpla%ing it. (he editors and the philologists are alwa%s overdoing things, #

think.

#/(*?#+*

# know from a section of %o!r diar% which m% wife and # translated that %o!r relationship

with liot was an important one in %o!r life in vario!s wa%s. # wonder if an% other literar%

fig!res who are known in the +est have also been important to %o!. #m thinking partic!larl% of

Henr% iller and @awrence D!rrell and ma%be others # dont know abo!t. #m thinking also of

%o!r own compatriots' (heotokas and >atsimbalis, for e3ample.

SB*#S

D!rrell was m!ch %o!nger than me, %o! know. He was a ver% interesting %o!ng man when #

met him. He was in his mid"twenties. # met him with Henr% iller. (he% came to $thens to see

the oloss!s of aro!ssi, >atsimbalis. #t was on the da%)if m% memor% is correct)of the

declaration of war.


17/33

#/(*?#+*

C!t of co!rse >atsimbalis wasnt the oloss!s at that point.

SB*#S

/o, b!t iller was threatening to make him something ver% colossal.

#/(*?#+*

+ell, he did.

SB*#S

#t was nice to meet them the% were, lets sa%, the first)or if not e3actl% the first, then the

second or third)readers with an !nderstanding of what # was doing. Bor e3ample, one of them,

iller or @arr%, told me after reading m% poems' ;-o! know what # like abo!t %o! is that %o!

t!rn things inside o!t. $nd # mean that in the good sense.= (hat was a ver% nice compliment for

me at that time.

#/(*?#+*

How did the% come to know %o!r poetr%<

SB*#S

How. Hm. (here were then in nglish onl% the translations of >atsimbalis. an!script

translations, # mean.

#/(*?#+*

+hen the% came to $thens, wh% did the% go directl% to >atsimbalis< +h% was he the man whom the% approached< +as he well known as a literar% fig!re o!tside 0reece<

SB*#S

# dont know. #t was a matter of common friends, perhaps. He became a bigger literar%

fig!re after The !o#ossus of Maroussi . $t that time he was more in contact than # was with the


18/33

nglish and $merican literar% circles. (here was a sort of international bohemia, # might sa%, b%

then in $thens. # mean on the eve of the war. # m!st add that >atsimbalis has that wonderf!l

2!alit% of being witho!t evil intention in his heart. He might critici7e somebod%, b!t in a good"

hearted wa%. $nd he believed that o!r co!ntr%, o!r little co!ntr%, was able to do something. He

had that sort of belief.

#/(*?#+*

+hat abo!t Henr% iller< How did %o! respond to him<

SB*#S

# like iller beca!se he is a ver% good"hearted man, and # think)e3c!se me for sa%ing so,

b!t this is not a criticism' #t is great praise to sa% abo!t a writer that he is a good man)iller

has a great deal of generosit% in him. Bor e3ample, when the moment came for him to go back to

$merica 4he was advised to do so b% the $merican cons!l as an $merican national, he had to go

back home beca!se the war was coming near5, he said to me one da%' ;% dear 0eorge, %o!ve

been so kind to me, and # want to give %o! something.= $nd he prod!ced a diar% which he had

been keeping d!ring his sta% in 0reece. # said' ;@ook here, Henr%. C!t after all, # know that %o!

are going to write a book, and %o! cant write the book)# mean %o! might need %o!r notes.= He

said' ;/o. $ll those things are here,= pointing to his head. # offered to make a t%pescript cop% for

him to give him. ;/o,= he said, ;a gift m!st be whole.= +ell, thats a splendid wa% of behaving, #

think. $nd # shall never forget that. (he diar% was a sort of first draft of the !o#ossus. C!t with

more personal e3plosions. $nd more okes, of co!rse.

#/(*?#+*

(here are 2!ite a few okes in the book, too.

SB*#S

(he trip to H%dra is splendid and the channel of &oros. *emember< % feeling abo!t iller

is this' Af co!rse its a great thing to have an !nderstanding of the ancient a!thors b!t the first

man # admired for not having an% classical preparation on going to 0reece is iller. (here is

s!ch a freshness in him.


19/33

#/(*?#+*

(he freshness of being read% to take it all in for the first time, %o! mean<

SB*#S

# s!ppose # was the first man to give him a te3t of $esch%l!s, when he decided to go to

%cenae. C!t of co!rse he doesnt see an%thing from $esch%l!s he sees, in the plain of

$rgos, redskins while he hears a a77 tr!mpeter. (hat is spontaneo!s behavior. $nd # admire it.

#/(*?#+*

Ma77 tr!mpeter<

SB*#S

(he a77 tr!mpeter was inspired, # s!ppose, b% @o!is $rmstrong. Ceca!se he had heard

$rmstrong on a small gramophone)a 2!ite elementar% gramophone)that # had then in m%

home in $thens. # m%self had discovered a77 eight or ten %ears earlier . . .

#/(*?#+*

Cefore illers arrival in 0reece. So %o! ta!ght him abo!t a77<

SB*#S

# was thirt%"two or thirt%"three at that time. $nd # became a a77 addict. # said to m%self,

after all, %o! have discovered at the same time the importance of Cach)the great Cach)and the

importance of a77. # remember once # said to itropo!los' ;Bor me, m% dear maestro, a77 is

one of the few wa%s left for !s to e3press feeling witho!t embarrassment.= (hat was in IG. /o,

IJ.

#/(*?#+*

+as there an% other writer abroad or in 0reece with whom %o! had a partic!larl% close

relationship


20/33

SB*#S

#ts depends on what period %o! are referring to. Bor e3ample, # had ver% close relations with

Sikelianos once !pon a time. # met him first in 199, tho!gh it did not become a close

relationship !ntil after his illness and m% ret!rn to 0reece in 19JJ. D!ring his illness, Sikelianos

was reall% remarkable, when he had all those crises in his health. +hile # was serving abroad, #

wo!ld take advantage of m% trips to $thens to go and see him. Ane time # heard that he had !st

been thro!gh a sort of cerebral hemorrhage. # fo!nd him at the theater wearing dark glasses)a

premiNre at the /ational (heatre. # said' ;Ah $ngelo, # am so glad %o! are here, beca!se # had

heard that %o! were not so well.= ;% dear,= he said, ;it is s!ch a splendid thing to have a little

r!b% on the top of %o!r brain.= He meant the hemorrhage. # said to him' ;#t is a splendid thing

that %o! can talk abo!t it that wa%. # am so glad.= He said' ;0eorge, look here. # shall tell %o! a

stor% d!ring the ne3t intermission.= # approached him d!ring the ne3t intermission. He said'

;Have %o! read &oam$o#


21/33

Did %o! know &alamas< +hat kind of man was he<

SB*#S

-o! know, it is strange the memories # have kept of people. Bor e3ample, other peopleadmire Sikelianos for their own special reasons m%self, # was attracted b% those tragic and

splendid moments of Sikelianoss last %ears. /ow &alamas' Ane of m% last memories of him was

when # went to tell him good"b%e beca!se # was leaving shortl%. D!ring o!r conversation he

referred to vario!s cra7% people mentioned in his poetr% and added' ;-o! know, we have man%

mad people in m% famil%. # wanted once !pon a time to write a book called (o 0enos ton

@o3on.= How can we translate that into nglish< ;(he breed of . . .=

#/(*?#+*

Af madmen.

SB*#S

/ot 2!ite of madmen. Af ;obli2!e= men.

#/(*?#+*

'$#i(ue men<

SB*#S

#m tr%ing to get the precise translation of the word.

#/(*?#+*

Unbalanced men, perhaps.

SB*#S

# said to him' ;r. &alamas, it is a pit% %o! didn)t write s!ch a book.= Ceca!se # tho!ght it

wo!ld be a good book. He had an interesting sense of h!mor.

#/(*?#+*


22/33

+hat do %o! consider &alamass most significant contrib!tion to 0reek literat!re<

SB*#S

+ell, # said it in *okimes, b!t # wo!ld repeat' his ver% important contrib!tion to the 0reeklang!age. # mean compared to his, avaf%s e3pression seems rather faint, altho!gh at certain

moments more real.

#/(*?#+*

C!t the min!te %o! sa% ;altho!gh more real= . . .

SB*#S

$gain, what # appreciate ver% m!ch in avaf% is his having started with terrificall% !nreal

poems, and then, b% insistence and work, he fo!nd at last his own personal voice. He wrote ver%

bad poems !p to his thirt%"fo!rth %ear. (he fail!re of those poems cannot be translated or

comm!nicated to a foreign reader beca!se the lang!age of the translation is alwa%s bo!nd to

improve them. (here is no possibilit% of translating that sort of thing faithf!ll%.

-o! know, what # admire)let me p!t it m% own wa%)what # admire abo!t avaf% was this'

He was a man who starts at a certain age with all signs showing that hes !nable to prod!ce

an%thing of importance. $nd then, b% ref!sing and ref!sing things which are offered him, in the

end he finds, he sees, as the% sa% he becomes certain that hes fo!nd his own e3pression. #ts a

splendid e3ample of a man who, thro!gh his ref!sals, finds his wa%.

#/(*?#+*

+hat did he ref!se precisel%<

SB*#S

3pressions, and the eas% things, verbosit%)that sort of thing. (ake his poem on ancient

traged%, for e3ample. #t is ver% bad. #t is something !nbelievable. C% p!tting aside things like

that, avaf% improves his e3pression !p to the end of his life, even !p to the last poem he wrote

on the o!tskirts of $ntioch' the happenings between the hristians and M!lian. $nd # admire

him for going on to the end like that. Hes a great e3ample. He had the co!rage, !p to the end of


23/33

his life, not to admit certain things, to reect them. $nd thats wh% # have do!bts abo!t all these

people who are tr%ing to p!t into circ!lation all the reected writings of avaf%, !nless one is

ver% caref!l in reading him. -o! know, that needs a great deal of discernment.

#/(*?#+*

(o t!rn now to the other well"known writer of the older generation, what abo!t

>a7ant7akis< #n the U.S., avaf% is the poet whos respected b% those who are themselves poets)

$!den, for instance, and man% of the important %o!nger $merican poets most of them know

avaf%, and most of them have a s%mpathetic attit!de towards him. C!t among st!dents and

among those who are !st beginning to learn abo!t literat!re, >a7ant7akis is b% far the most

pop!lar 0reek writer, both as poet and as novelist. #ncreasingl% m% ob is to tr% to disc!ss

>a7ant7akiss work)whether poetr% or fiction)witho!t diminishing him.

SB*#S

# dont wonder. (he thing is that one m!st have a possibilit% of being in contact with a

writer, and that # cannot do in the case of >a7ant7akis)a terrible thing for me, %o! know. # m!st

give %o! a warning as far as >a7ant7akis is concerned. An the one hand, there is his poetr%)

what is called poetr%)and thats the 'dyssey se2!el, of co!rse, and his pla%s in verse and on

the other hand, there is his prose' the novels. /ow, as far as the novels are concerned, # am not

competent to !dge. # dont know how to speak abo!t the novels. # have not read all of them. #

hear from people whom # tr!st that the% are ver% good, and the% ma% well $e ver% good. C!t

the 'dyssey se2!el is another matter. (here, altho!gh %o! have interesting passages, #m afraid

there is no poetr% in them. # sa% interesting passages)passages that are informative abo!t the

man >a7ant7akis b!t # dont believe thats poetr%, at least not the poetr% # believe in.

#/(*?#+*

+hat abo!t as ;idea,= 2!ite aside from poetic considerations< $s statement of a

philosophical or religio!s position.

SB*#S

# dont know. # have no idea abo!t philosophical positions and worldviews. -o! know,

whenever worldviews begin interfering with writing)# dont know. # prefer worldviews in the


24/33

sort of dr%, rep!lsive, and 4# dont know how to p!t it5 prosaic wa%. # dont like people who tr% to

e3press worldviews in writing poetr%. # remember once # had a reading in (hessalonike, and a

philosopher stood !p and asked' ;C!t what, after all, r. Seferis, is %o!r worldview


25/33

Ceardless an.= #t is a te3t written in the form of a mock ass that parodies the ass in a

rather shocking wa%. #t am!ses me especiall% beca!se # dont see eno!gh light comic te3ts in o!r

literat!re. ither people refrained from writing s!ch te3ts, or s!ch te3ts were eliminated b%

somber"minded academics.

#/(*?#+*

(hats an interesting remark. -o!ve said on another occasion that one thing which %o! find

that the $nglo"Sa3on tradition has and no other tradition has is that element of nonsense)an

element which is fairl% contin!o!s in o!r literat!re and which seems alwa%s to have e3isted in

some form.

SB*#S

(he $nglo"Sa3on tradition is certainl% different from o!rs in that respect and # believe that

no continental co!ntr% can claim the same kind of nonsense that dward @ear and @ewis arroll

offer.

#/(*?#+*

-o!ve spent three periods of service in ngland, spread over the best part of %o!r literar%

career. Did %o! find it an especiall% congenial climate for work<

SB*#S

/ot reall%. $ ver% good place for me for writing was when # was in $lbania beca!se # was

2!ite !nknown there, and ver% isolated at the same time # was near 0reece, # mean, from the

lang!age point of view, and # co!ld !se m% free time to advantage. (here were no e3ha!sting

social f!nctions.

#/(*?#+*

+hat abo!t %o!r ac2!aintance with nglish men of letters d!ring %o!r earl% %ears in

ngland< -o! met liot, of co!rse.

SB*#S


26/33

/o, # had a letter of introd!ction to liot, and # rang his office, b!t the secretar% informed

me that liot was in the United States. #t was the time when he was harles liot /orton

&rofessor at Harvard. # never met liot nor an% other writer in the beginning. Birst of all, # was

rather sh% as a person then, it was a period when # was groping to find m% own f!rther

e3pression. #n contrast, when # came to ngland after +orld +ar ##, m% period in the iddle

ast had created a great man% friends among the nglish, and when # came back to ngland as

o!nselor at the mbass%, # had no diffic!lt% at all beca!se b% then # was 2!ite well known in

ngland. #t was !st after the p!blication of m% first translation into nglish, The +ing of "sine

and 'ther Poems, in 19J8.

#/(*?#+*

D!ring the period of %o!r first official visit to ngland, # wonder whether %o! had an%contact with nglish or $merican literat!re that %o! fo!nd partic!larl% e3citing along with

liots work.

SB*#S

# think a ver% instr!ctive man for me, as # fo!nd o!t afterwards, was +. C. -eats. C!t #m

talking abo!t -eatss earl% period. $fter all, %o! see, # had endeavored to e3ploit folklore m!ch

as -eats did.

#/(*?#+*

+hat abo!t $merican literat!re< Did %o! have an% favorite $merican a!thors in %o!r

formative %ears<

SB*#S

#t is an odd thing for !s)# s!ppose that happens to ever%bod% abroad)# mean, one gets into

literat!re and art b% chance. Bor e3ample, # dont remember on what occasion # came to know

$rchibald ac@eish. $nd # translated him, as a matter of fact. # think # am the first man to have

translated him in 0reece. (hen there was arianne oore. # had translated arianne oore

before the war also. ;(he onke%s,= ;(o a Snail.=

#/(*?#+*


27/33

-o! sa% %o! enco!ntered them b% accident. +hat was the accident<

SB*#S

Ah, # dont know. Some review where # saw the poems, # dont remember which one. $ndagain, 7ra &o!nd. # had alread% translated three !antos before the war.

#/(*?#+*

+hen # bro!ght !p $merican literat!re, # was reall% thinking abo!t the older $merican

poets' +alt +hitman and mil% Dickinson, for e3ample.

SB*#S

# knew +alt +hitman. Ceca!se # started with Brench literat!re, and +alt +hitman was

translated into Brench earl% eno!gh to be available to me. $nd then Henr% iller had an

admiration for +hitman. He gave me man% hints abo!t him. (hat was 2!ite near the o!tbreak

of the war, of co!rse. C!t # keep reading +hitman, as, in m% %o!th, # was reading dgar $llan

&oe.

#/(*?#+*

/ow that %o!re abo!t to go back to 0reece, do %o! have an%thing that %o! can sa% abo!t

this partic!lar visit to the United States)which is %o!r third visit, if #m not mistaken)an%thing

abo!t %o!r impressions of this co!ntr%<

SB*#S

% third visit to $merica has been the most important of all, this visit it has been more

s!bstantial than the others. # dont believe that visiting /ew -ork helps %o! to !nderstand

$merica. !rio!sl% eno!gh, # am now in the middle of a wood in a remote place, &rinceton, %et #

have been able to see and !nderstand more of $merica from this remote place than if # were in a

great center.

#/(*?#+*

Af co!rse &rincetonians dont think &rinceton is all that remote.


28/33

SB*#S

+ell, # mean for others who are tr%ing, when the% are traveling, to see cosmopolitan centers,

it might look remote. $nd after all, we travelers do not attend co!rses at the !niversit%.

#/(*?#+*

+hat have %o! seen in partic!lar d!ring this visit that has impressed %o!<

SB*#S

# dont want to mention things which impress me, %o! know. /obod% knows what impresses

him on the spot. # mean it takes time to be elaborated somehow b% memor%.

#/(*?#+*

Did %o! get some work done<

SB*#S

-es, # think # did. # cant sa%. # dont know how to speak abo!t work done. # have the

impression that one can speak abo!t work done onl% when the work is finished. # am not

inclined to speak abo!t m% work d!ring the period of elaboration. C!t in an% case, there is aninner feeling that %o! have not lost %o!r time. +hich is something. # mean, # want to be honest

with %o!' # cannot mention an%thing reall% done. (he onl% thing # can mention to %o!)and #m

not going to mention the s!bstance of it)is that # wrote a poem of two lines.

#/(*?#+*

-o! !st received a vol!me of !gene carth%s poems. # fo!nd that rather moving' to

discover that he had in fact written a vol!me of poems, and apparentl% d!ring his campaign last

%ear.

SB*#S

-es, wh% not< # mean # can ver% well !nderstand that. #f there was a period of e!phoria,

there is no reason wh% it sho!ldnt happen in poetr% at the same time that it happens in a


29/33

chapter of politics. Ane of m% poems, ;(hr!sh,= was written after a terribl% active period of m%

life)# mean, politicall% active, beca!se # was principal private secretar% to the *egent of 0reece

!st before going to &oros. Af co!rse poems do not appear like an er!ption b% a volcano the%

need preparation. $nd # think back on ;(hr!sh,= # can well mark notes, lines, which # had

started writing d!ring the previo!s %ear, that most active %ear. /evertheless, # remember da%s

when the ob was killing, beca!se # was not a politician, # was !st a servant, a p!blic servant,

and # remember da%s when # started going to m% office at something like eight oclock in the

morning and ret!rned back home the ne3t da% at five oclock in the morning witho!t having had

an% meal or an% sleep. # mention that, of co!rse, not in order to move %o! b!t in order to show

%o! that, after all, time was pressing then. C!t # was also writing. Af co!rse, there are other

things which infl!enced m% work at that time, and among other things # might mention the fact

that # ret!rned to m% co!ntr% after a great period of longing, at the end of the war.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! feel that, in addition to the lines %o! wrote, the poem was gestating in some

significant wa% d!ring this ver% active period, so that when %o! went to &oros it co!ld come o!t

as the coherent work it is in a relativel% short period< $ month of vacation, wasnt it<

SB*#S

(wo months. (he first long holida% # ever had d!ring m% career)the longest one.

#/(*?#+*

$nd %o! were able to write the poem)and it is a long poem)in effect d!ring one sitting' the

long sitting of that two"month vacation<

SB*#S

/o. -o!ll find the stor% of m% writing that poem in the diar% of this period, the period of J6

on &oros. # !sed to go for a swim)no, first # wo!ld c!t wood in the garden 4which was a h!ge

garden5, then go to the sea, and then work !p to night, !p to darkness, which started at seven

oclock. $nd it is strange, %o! know, how)e3c!se me for talking like this)# noticed how one is

cleansed progressivel% b% s!ch a life. Bor e3ample, # noticed that cleansing in m% dreams, as #

mentioned in this diar% which has been recentl% p!blished.


30/33

#/(*?#+*

# have onl% one more reall% general topic to bring !p. # wonder if %o! feel, as the res!lt of

%o!r rather !ni2!e position in 0reek letters now)# s!ppose an% poet has a !ni2!e position in

his co!ntr% once hes won the /obel &ri7e)if %o! feel that this in an% wa% has affected %o!r

sense of a p!blic role as a man of letters as distinct from %o!r private role as a poet)an%

responsibilit% %o! ma% feel towards %o!nger poets, for instance, towards the c!lt!ral life aro!nd

%o!, or an% position %o! ma% sense %o! have to maintain in relation to %o!r co!ntr%.

SB*#S

# sho!ld from the beginning tell %o! 2!ite bl!ntl%)if # can sa% it in nglish)that the /obel

&ri7e is an accident, no more than an accident. #ts not an appointment. $nd # have no feeling

that # have been appointed to an% sort of f!nction. #t is !st an accident which one has to tr% and

forget as soon as possible. Atherwise, if %o! are overda77led b% that sort of thing, %o! get lost

and fo!nder. $t the time # won the pri7e, there was a sort of)how can # p!t it in nglish


31/33

SB*#S

+ell, %es, 0od bless them, b!t #m sorr% to sa% that # never felt # was the spokesman for

an%thing or an%bod%. (here are no credentials which appoint an%bod% to be a spokesman for

something. /ow others consider that a sort of f!nction which m!st be performed b!t # think

that is, after all, wh% # have written so little. #ve never felt the obligation # have to consider onl%

that # am not dried !p as a poet and to write. # mean that has been m% feeling from the ver%

beginning. # remember when # p!blished m% first book, there were lots of people who said' ;r.

Seferis, %o! m!st now tr% to show !s that %o! can do more.= # answered them' ;0entlemen, %o!

m!st consider that ever% poem p!blished b% me is the last one. # never have an% feeling abo!t its

contin!ation.= % last poem. $nd if # write another one, its a great blessing. /ow how m!ch #

have worked in order to prod!ce the ne3t poem, or how m!ch # have not worked, is another

matter)a private matter. Athers think that the% are the voices of the co!ntr%. $ll right. 0od

bless them. $nd sometimes the%ve been ver% good in that f!nction.

#/(*?#+*

Mo%ce felt that wa% a bit. #m thinking of the famo!s remark b% Stephen Dedal!s at the end

of " Portrait of the "rtist as a Young Man, ;to forge in the smith% of m% so!l the !ncreated

conscience of m% race.=

SB*#S

# can give %o! another e3ample. #n m% %o!th there was an enormo!s amo!nt of disc!ssion

abo!t the problem of knowing, or tr%ing to define, what is 0reek and what is not 0reek)

praising one thing as 0reek and condemning something else as !n"0reek' tr%ing, in short, to

establish ;the real= 0reek tradition. So # wrote, ;0reekness is the s!m of the a!thentic works

which are going to be prod!ced b% 0reeks.= +e cannot sa% that we have some works creating the

conscience of 0reece. +e see a line, b!t s!rro!nded b% large margins of darkness. #t isnt simple.

# dont know what m% voice is. #f others, for the time being, consider that it is theirconscience, som!ch the better. #ts !p to them to decide. #ts not !p to me to impose beca!se %o! cannot be a

sort of dictator in these matters.

#/(*?#+*


32/33

Some wo!ld think %o!rs the health% attit!de, b!t there are other people who feel that a

/obel &ri7e winner, especiall% when he is the onl% one the co!ntr% has ever had, ought to be a

spokesman and a p!blic conscience.

SB*#S

#t might be so, b!t, after all, one takes the attit!de which is imposed on him b% his nat!re, or

whatever %o! call it. $t the same time, # have never forced m%self to write an%thing which #

didnt think necessar%. +hen # sa% ;necessar%,= # mean which # had to e3press or be smothered.

#/(*?#+*

+ell, #ve r!n o!t of 2!estions. Since %o! dont have an% grand advice for the %o!nger

generation, #ve nothing more to ask %o!.

SB*#S

# hae advice.

#/(*?#+*

Ah %o! do- 0ood.

SB*#S

# have the following advice to give to the %o!nger 0reek generation' to tr% to e3ercise

themselves as m!ch as the% can in the modern 0reek lang!age. $nd not to write it !pside down.

# have to tell them that in order to write, one m!st believe in what one does, not seeming to

believe that one is believing something. (he% m!st remember that the onl% ob in which one

cannot lie is poetr%. -o! cant lie in poetr%. #f %o! are a liar, %o!ll alwa%s be discovered. &erhaps

now, perhaps in five %ears, in ten %ears, b!t %o! are going to be discovered event!all% if %o! are

l%ing.

#/(*?#+*

+hen %o! speak of l%ing, %o!re speaking first of all abo!t l%ing against %o!r emotional . . .


33/33

SB*#S

# dont know what # mean. &erhaps it is an emotional thing. #n the realit% of ones tho!ghts.

# dont know. # mean, there is a special so!nd abo!t the solid, the so!nd thing. -o! knock

against it, and it renders a sort of so!nd which proves that it is gen!ine.

#/(*?#+*

Do %o! think ever% writer alwa%s knows himself whether the so!nd he hears is gen!ine or

not<

SB*#S

/o. #t is diffic!lt to sa%. C!t he m!st somehow have an instinct)a g!iding instinct)which

sa%s to him' ;% dear bo%, m% dear chap, be caref!l %o! are going to fall. -o! are e3aggerating

at this moment.= $nd then, when he hears that, he sho!ld not take a dr!g in order to sa% to

himself' ;+h%, %o! are all right, m% dear.= -o! are not all right, m% dear, at all.

O &arenthetical dates indicate p!blication in translation.

Documents

Seferis Interviewed by Edmond Keeley