SanAndresIslandORLANDOInterview[1]

8/6/2019 SanAndresIslandORLANDOInterview[1]

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WE STAY WITH NOTHINGE STAY WITH NOTHING

Transcript of an interview with Ras Rolando an artisan andtourist guide on the Colombian administered Caribbean islandof San Andrs

Interviewer: Yari Baksh . Santa Barbara .California . Copyright 2010

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San Andrs and ProvidenceSan Andrs and Providence INTERVIEW CONTEXT

The Caribbean islands of San Andrs and Providence are located some 500 miles from the coast ofColombia across an open sea. In contrast they are just 80 miles from the coastline of Nicaragua in

Central America.

Almost all the native islanders maintain strong traditional family ties with the English speaking Africandescended residents of Nicaragua's Caribbean Coast and there continues to be regular maritime trafficbetween the two areas.

San Andrs and Providence were originally settled in 1629, by English Puritans who were subsequentlydriven off by the Spanish. Some of the residents including many of the no-longer-enslaved Africansmoved onto the Caribbean Coast of Nicaragua which at the time was a pirate safe haven and base fromwhich to raid the Spanish colonies of Central America.

For over a century the largely unpopulated islands of San Andrs and Providence were an attractivebase for pirates and sea turtle hunters. That is until 1739 when they were added to the area ofjurisdiction controlled by Spain's Vice-royalty in Nuevo Granada present day Colombia.

In 1787 a small group of British settlers from Jamaica including a retired Scottish slave ship captainalso moved onto the islands at about the same time that international conventions in Europe gave theSpanish Crown official sovereignty of the territories.

In 1822 following Colombia's independence from Spain the island's residents signed a proclamation ofadherence to the newborn republic and from that time the territory has remained officially a part ofColombia. However given their distance from the South American mainland and lack of economicimportance, for over 120 years the islands were mostly ignored and the predominantly Africandescended English speaking residents left to fend for themselves.

However in the 1950's the Colombian state voted funds for the development of the islands and by the1980s the government as well as local and international bankers and investors had come to view SanAndrs as a potentially great holiday resort location and tourist destination.

Investment boomed including high rise hotel and casino construction, free port facilities and relatedtourist services However there has been little benefit to the native islanders who have seenthemselves being isolated and ignored and especially being overwhelmed as Colombian migrants with adifferent language, culture and values have flooded onto San Andrs .

The Colombians have also pushed ahead in trying to alter the local social and economic structure Thisincludes supplanting the over 300 year old Afro Caribbean Anglophone Creole and Protestant nativeculture with one that is more Spanish speaking, Euro-mestizo and Catholic.

Consequently although the native San Andrs African descendants have maintained an identity that issomewhat different from the Spanish speaking black communities on the Colombian mainland,nevertheless they too have now been affected by the exclusionary policies and practices of Colombianpublic and private institutions.

These have long been criticized by the mainland Afro-Colombian and Indigenous populations as

contributing by default or design to systemic marginalization, exclusion, exploitation and gradualcultural disintegration. In the case of these groups, the effects are, made considerably worse by theongoing armed conflict, corruption, territorial dispossession and population displacement in Colombia.The native San Andrs population therefore continues to view the changing patterns on their islandwith increasing alarm. Despite the presence of constitutional rights and respect for cultural diversityas enshrined in the Colombian constitution, their daily experiences have served to reinforce thefeeling that their own distinctive culture and way of life is also under serious threat of disappearance.

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WE STAY WITH NOTHINGInterview with Ras Rolando an artisan and tourist guide on the Colombian

administered Caribbean island of San Andrs

An examination of the systemic process of exclusion, marginalization, segregation and

threat of elimination claimed by some in the native African descendant population.

It includes accounts of the local lifestyle and explains how the increasing institutional

presence, influence and control by mainland Colombia adversely affects the rights of

the native Afro-Caribbean population; especially with respect to income generation,

health, education, property rights, personal security and political participation.

A Bad situation

Interviewer:As a man here in San Andrs , what do you think the kind of discrimination isagainst men and how does it affect you and your friends?

Rolando: Starting right now is just like my brethren going there! The situation of his way of

survival.

Interviewer: You are referring to that young man walking past us now on the road right? Whatis his way of survival?

Rolando: That same way how you see him going there. Every day. Sometimes all after

midnight. Just roaming around the way like that. And picking fruit and have to go supplicating

his neighbors just to cooperate with him, to buy from him. Maybe for him to get a pound of sugar,

a pound of rice, maybe even for a bag of [purified] water. You understand?

Interviewer: So he is going out there to collect as many things as he can so that he can exchangefor the things he needs to live.

Rolando: Being a native islander here on the island, like this right now, this is a touristical zone

and we dont have opportunity even to communicate with the tourist. Not even to win income

from the tourist for survival. So really I have to say it is a bad situation we find ourselves into on

the island.

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Tourism, economic marginalization, cultural and environmental destruction

Interviewer: How do they stop you from communicating with the tourists?

Rolando: Okay listen, I have something like 22 years working with tourists, making handcrafts

and selling handcrafts and stuff like this. And I had a point in the downtown where I always work.

And after [a while] the problem begin. A lot of hippies come here in high season. A lot of hippies

come from the [Colombian] mainland and they come and they have no problem. No one [of usnatives] give them no headache or anything They just come and set their things down right there

beside you on the ground and they sell right there.

Then afterwards the [Colombian] government [begin to] come around, saying they putting in

controls. They go to those hippies there. Those hippies will just give them maybe 20,000

Colombian pesos and they settle their case. ($US 1.00 = approx 1800 Colombian pesos)

I am native, but they know they cannot manipulate me like that. They give ME a problem. Sayingthat I have to have a document from the government center. . I go make all my requisitos[requirements] what I need to receive my documents. I pay for my documents. And when

they done, they tell me my documents dont ready as yet.

So when the policemen come around making their search, I still in the same situation. Because as

much as I already pay for my documents at the government [office] I didn't receive it. So they

take my things and go with it, and hold it at the government center until after the season pass.

When the season pass they give me back my things. I cant make nothing. So I had to come out

of the town and just leave it to the [Colombian] hippies alone, and come here.

I am a smart guy, so I make my own business. I make a cabin, I put my handcrafts there And I go

around and look for the tourists and bring them here.

I take different courses by the SENA.(Servicio Nacional de Aprendizaje) I prepare [trained] by theSENA to work with the tourists, [on how] to treat people and things like that . So I have my

preparation [training]. So I go around and I check the people. And after you meet with the peopleand begin to be acquainted with the people then it is different. Because the people get to know

your personal self.

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And that is is a problem we have here. You have a [tourism] package with everything included

from the interior. Where the tourists buy their pass, everything is included! They come straight to

the hotel. And then now you can't even see those people because those people have a package.

Everything is included, from the hotel, to a bus and from the bus, and [they] go around and

around. So you see. You dont have any touch with those people, so it is really hard like that.

Interviewer: So they isolate you. You are not in the package.

Rolando: We are not in the package. And this [lakeside] place here is a tourist zone. But we just

receive people here that maybe you see the same chauffeur who drives for the agency taking

the people around, he negotiate for [visiting] this place here. What does he do? He charge each

one of his passengers maybe 5000 pesos per person to take them here. When they come now, I

still dont value nothing because they already pay the chauffeur to bring them here.

So when they come here now, they just come to see and walk through and take a picture and go.

And [it's like] I'm still not here, although they see me. Because I have nothing to do with that

[package].

So I organize down here amongst ourselves with the chauffeurs, that we will take the people

around here. Because as much as they bring the people here, the people dont understand where

they coming [to]. They dont know what [things] are here. They are just looking at the water. So,

I say we will take them ourselves. We who live around here will go by turns receiving the people

and take them on a tour around the lake and give them an explanation of the place totally. And we

have a price for that of 10,000 pesos.

So the chauffeur, he collect the people on the way but when he come here he think it hard.[to

share]. Maybe [he earns] 40,000 or 50,000 pesos between all the people that he takes here. But

when he come here he think it hard to give us just 10,000 pesos to give the people the service. So

we have to take it [directly] from the people, and the people dispute about that with the chauffeur,so we still can't get it to work. So we have no organization around here. The [Colombian]

government come and they try to organize things [only] downtown.

For instance, our culture here is a culture that we know [how] to take care of just even the simple

mango. We leave it [mango fruit] to full.. We leave it to ripe. It drop on the ground and we take it

and we do with it what we want. Now it is a different thing with the culture that come fromforeign. They [mainland Colombians] come and when the mango [tree] just put out a small

blossom and the small little young mango they start to just lick it down [with sticks] to make salad

and to eat it green like that with salt. So not even mango we don't have here now, because

nowadays before the [mango] season is up the crop is finished.

They are destroying everything. The nature, the culture everything and what is it now? The[Colombian] government have us in a sense they are separating us. So, nevertheless we are

weaker.

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Colombian influence, exclusion, and disintegration of island culture

Interviewer: What do you mean they are separating you? They are separating the native people

from each other?

Rolando: In some sense we are separated: brain washed. So a lot of the people they are [living]

just in this Colombian culture, in this Colombia style. Even the young girls from the island they

dont want to speak their English. They want to speak Spanish and Spanish. And the [Colombian]

police guys they come, they take them and go. They wash their brains and they breed them up

[impregnate them] and leave them. You know, just like that! Even some native girls on the island

they dont want to have anything to do with their own native guys. They are just brain washed in

the same way from the Colombians that come in.

Interviewer: They feel that theyll get ahead?

Rolando: They think that theyll get ahead, but it is all contrary. For the Colombian guys that

come down here, or the Colombian ladies, they come down here and what do they do?. They go

around and check to know everybody, and they will put themselves with someone who hassomething; who have property, who have a good work in the government. They put themselves

with someone like that. Apart from that, they dont deal with you.

That shows that they are smarter also. They come here to look for a living so they look for

someone who could give them a living.

The native girls, they are different. Here they [already] have somewhere they are living; and theyhave their family in good state; and what do they do? They take some Colombian that come from

over there [ the mainland] who dont have nothing. They give them everything, and when they

finish, if they die today or tomorrow, the Spaniard bring his family down here and take over

everything. And just like that the natives are being eliminated all over the island. Every day we

are eliminated more and more.

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Language discrimination, disrespect for Creole English language rights

Interviewer:So, tell me about the English speaking thing. One of the women told me that thechildren grow up speaking English and when they get to school the children tease them about the

English. So there is a lot of discrimination against English speaking people.

Rolando: Of course. Colombia; they know that we are not Colombian we [are] just like

adopted [by them]. We first speak English. Our history:. the British, the slave from Africa; our

generation came from there, so the first language we form was English. After the British went

back to England, and our parents stayed here after ,and amongst ourselves we begin to shorten the

words; we give it the name creole. Creole English.

So the Colombian now, many of them will go to the USA and take English courses and study

English so when they come back to Colombia and come to San Andrs, they say no the native

dont speak English. They speakpatois; So they give it that name. They own self put that name toour language. They say ispatois we speak. So they try to full the people heads up with that. Theysay we dont speak English, we speakpatois. So many of the people get fooled with that and theythink its the truth. We speak better English than them

Interviewer: So what are they trying to say that it is not a good language?

Rolando: Some of them they try to say thatpatois is not a good language; as if to say no one

know wherepatois come from; like its a foreign language. Something that we just pick up alongthe way. Many say that they search in the dictionary and they search in the Bible andpatois word

dont appear, so they say that its something that dont exist.

So this is the way that they try to make we feel like we dont know what we speaking. But WE

know better. We speak English AND also we also speak Creole English after breaking the word

you understand. So everyone now just try to speak Spanish and Spanish and Spanish and think

they are speaking a better language.

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Socio-economic exclusion and marginalization of native island culture

Interviewer: Does any of the health care and all the services speak English I notice a lot of the

older women dont speak Spanish I met a couple women in their 90s and they dont speakSpanish. So if they need health care do they have someone out there speaking English to helpthem?

Rolando: They have to take along someone of the younger generation to translate for them. Even

so, over all the radio station, TV station and in all the identities them, is Spanish you find. So

when those [older] people go to those places they have problems. Even to go to the bank to

change a cheque or something is a problem for them. So they have to take someone of the young

generation to translate for them. And that is a problem. So totally they are showing us.

For instance, [on the radio] we used to carry typical Caribbean music, folkloric music, and reggaemusic and now is a change that over all the air [waves] is this [Spanish language music]

ballienato, this merengue, thissalsa and this reggaeton and these things and everything iscompletely, completely cut out. Our culture, everything is cut out.

So it is like we said, these [Colombian] people come here and they dont meet with us. They dont

even get acquainted with us you see. Because the section where black people are found, they cut it

out totally. They dont even mention it. The president [Uribe] came from Colombia, he come to

San Andrs and he run around and around the island throughout the whole town; [but] he dont

come this way. He don't come through this area. He never never never pass through this area. So

it is like they they know where the black people is located so they just try to keep it apartheid.

All this work that [they are] creating on the island and no work for the natives. Our guys here theyfinish high school and they go to the university. You pay something like 5, 6, 8 years in university,

studying, [in mainland Colombia] and when you finish they send you home [to San Andrs ] and

you sit down. No work, nowhere. No work for the natives. They send and bring 20

Barranquillian from Barranquilla [mainland Colombian city] to San Andrs for all thepuestos[positions] What will you do?

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Education, employment exclusion, and denial of income opportunity

Interviewer: So they bring outside people to work here, even though you have educated people.

Rolando: Yes even though you have educated people and people prepare for[trained as] adoctor, or a lawyer, or administration. They leave them home sitting down. They dont give them

work and they bring from foreign and give them the positions.

Interviewer: Would those native island people get jobs if they went to Colombia the main land.

Rolando: No! They try it and they dont get work. There was a guy from St.Louis here, a native

guy that finish his university, I think it was two or three years ago. He become the best student

throughout the whole university. His teacher promise him that he would help him with something.

After the year finish, the guy depending on the teacher to help him with a job right there in Bogot

so that he could begin work right there. And after when he graduate, he depending on the teacher.

And he went to the teacher and the teacher make him to understand that He is so sorry, but the

best thing is for him to go home to his island and see if he find a job Why? Because he hasmany other [students] there [in Bogot ].

He say I know you are very good and very quick, but I have many here who I know are

expecting a work from me, so you must go home and see if you can get a work from someone.

You know where he is today? On a cruise ship ...doing something else far different than what he

prepare [train] for.

Interviewer: And the jobs on the cruise ships are.Cleaning?...only these kind of jobs?

Rolando: Yes, you have to begin from there. No matter how you prepare [are educated] you

have to begin from utility. Yeah. Maybe the easiest one would be in a bar working in the barmaking drinks. But still it's something that you dont prepare [not educated] for.

Interviewer:I was told that the schools on San Andrs prepare the kids all the way to highschool very well.

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Rolando: After that they dont have nothing all the years of spending and spending to prepare

the child and after the child finish preparing, they dont have nothing to do. What that lead you to?

Vaargus! Well vaargus is someone that walks the streets all day and dont do nothing. Someonethat cant find nothing to do, and that does, what[ever] you find to do, along the way.

And that is [like] a lot of guys today. Along the street today walking. And a lot of them is

intelligent guys, prepared [educated] guys, but...nothing to do. The government dont sustain us.

The [Colombian] government have us totally invaded. I see that clearly. We are totally invaded I am so sorry about it.

Everyday is something that pain my heart. Everyday it pain my heart . Everyday I say to The

Most High: What decision he has prepared for native people? For everyone in the island just

say We leave it to God, Leave it to God But it continue to advance in their [Colombia] benefitbut our benefit is daily getting lower, going weaker, going colder, so I dont know if we can

continue saying Leave it to God.

Excuse me how I say it, but I think we have to make some action some other way. We have to

protest. We dont feel satisfy with the Colombia title. We dont feel satisfy with this

administration, this treatment by Colombia. So we have to show that we dont satisfy with it.

Disrespect for the property rights and social values of native islanders

Interviewer: Talk about the difference in outlook... about how the Colombian migrants from the

mainland trespass on native property even though on the Colombian mainland it is illegal totrespass on someone's property?

Rolando: The Colombians [who] live in the interior [mainland] each one have their property

fence off. They have their fruit trees, they have their farm, and it is prohibited for the neighbor

next door to cross over and take even fruit on the ground. Many of them have been shot down [in

Colombia] like that. Just passing by the way and if you just dip and stoop down and stretch your

hand under the fence to pick a fruit from on the ground they shoot you.

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But here on the island it is different. When they come here the same set of them that over there

prohibit [anyone] to go over to the neighbor property to take a fruit...when they come to San

Andrs is different. They run through every one property as if it is their own. Here we dont have

no controls like that. Here [traditionally] we dont have no respect for all that [individual property

owner] control. So they [the Colombians] come here and they live totally different. They find

total freedom, so they come and they go through the neighbor property. [but unlike us] they do

what they want. Just like that!

They go with all the fruit and they go with breadfruityour plants, also with your mill and

everything. And if you come out and say something they[shoot at you]... the smallest one right

now, [Colombian mainlander] 8 and 9 years old going about with a gun.

Imported underage criminality and decrease in security of native islanders

Interviewer: The Colombians have the guns not the natives?

Rolando: Not the natives. Downtown next door to the airport they have a bar, what they call it.

Those small little guys, the big youth train them to do dirty things. Make they go into the bar and

go hands-up the man. Take away he money and go. And when the police come they say: He is a

minor. He is underage. And you cant do nothing. And they train the underage [youth]

downtown to do those things.

Interviewer: And theyre doing it to the natives?

Rolando: They do it. They go on the motor cycle, they stop you and you give them everythingyou have. They go to the store, they come on the hill here , they watch the guy is working whole

day and when he close in the night they go to the store . When you go, you find them have a gun

on you, and you have to give them everything. And the police all the time, [saying] They are

underage. We have to find a solution for that!

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Political exclusion, death threats, forced exile of native island leadership

Interviewer: Do you have any native people in the government to help?

Rolando: We have guys there; we have maybe one or two, but they have to wait on orders fromColombia.

Interviewer: You dont have any power?

Rolando: They still dont have no power. If they try to do something they would eliminate

[them] out. Like a brother from the island who was following the governorship and when he stand

up strong to defend the culture, to defend the island and defend the people from the island he will

be kicked out and really threatened also.

Interviewer: What do you mean?

Rolando: There was the best bone doctor for the island his name was Ralph Newball. He was anative islander and he run for the governorship and he win it and after he win it, he was there. The

present government was trying with an organization [policy] that did not benefit the native. They

was trying to do what they were doing before trying to make the guys from the island, when

they do something wrong, jail them not in San Andrs, but in the United States or somewhere in

Colombia. All the guys from the island [they send] to the interior [mainland] so you dont see

them anymore. He was fighting against that, so that it dont take place.

And there were different [other] organizations that he kicked against that wasnt [doing any] good

for us. And he has been totally thrown out. And he was threatened also, that if he didnt abandon

the seat and also leave Colombia for 10 years, he would be threatened his family they

threatened his life and his family.

Interviewer: So they threatened his family?

Rolando: He had to leave the scene and he have to went out of Colombia totally for 10 years.

And right now being the best bone doctor for the island and Colombia also, he has to be right now

working on a cruise ship. He dont return back here. He sent for his family and he living inMiami. He left his country totally.

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Interviewer: So, San Andrs loses its best bone doctor.

Rolando: The best one. You will ask about him. And that takes place here with us. To do

something good they are scared of that.

Interviewer: So it frightens all the others.

Systemic impoverishment and population reduction of native islanders

Rolando: They have a plan for us and I believe when they get through with that, you will not find

any more natives on this land. In a few more years from now we will be totally eliminated.

Maybe the natives will want to ask they own self... [if] they want to go somewhere else.

Yeah. For, what [are] we doing here in our own country? We dont have work. We dont have

food. You dont have nothing. All what you eat they prohibit it. If you used to farm they prohibit.If; you used to fish they prohibit it and when they find you doing that, they tax you. They

mentally told you that you have to die for hungry...die for necessities.

And that is our situation here. They prohibit you from fishing. Okay if you go fishing, they takeaway your equipment. They give it to legalize other [people] to come in and fish explore the

sea and give it to other countries for business. The business is too good for us, maybe, so they

give it to different people and different countries.

Interviewer: The money goes out.

Rolando: It is totally exploitation. They exploiting the island and taking it to another country.

We stay with nothing!!

ENDm m m m m m m

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SanAndresIslandORLANDOInterview[1]