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Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p54546)by Tenso » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:15 am

Is this the view of all Tibetan schools? How was he come to thought of as that incarnation?

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Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p54649)by deepbluehum » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:58 pm

I'm not sure there is a specific quote that explains why. It helps to understand the deepmeaning of tantra. What is Amitabha? Amitabha is bliss‐emptiness. The Mahayoga Herukapractice Guru Rinpoche taught was the method of bliss‐emptiness. But he himself actualizedthe method he taught. Another way to say it is to give tantra you must be that tantra. Hetruly transformed himself into Heruka and in so doing fully actualized the nature of bliss. Blissis symbolically represented by the notion of amrita or nectar, which is given the nameAmitabha, the embodiment of amrita. So Guru Rinpoche is an emanation of this reality.


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p55126)by narraboth » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:08 pm

It was described in many terma.

Ryoto wrote:Is this the view of all Tibetan schools? How was he come to thought of as thatincarnation?


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Nowadays it's accepted by not only nyingmapa but almost all Kagyupa and Sakyapa.For Gelugpa, still depends. In general, most of Gelupa repect Padmasambhava as amahasiddha who brought vajrayana into Tibet, but they don't necessarily accept theauthenticity of some terma.

The famous (notorious) 'yellow‐cover‐booklet' made by a Gelug master, which firstly seriouslyshowed the problem of DSD, suggested that Gelugpa should not chant Varja Guru mantra.Even now, there are still some Gelug masters disbelive terma, even usually they don't openlycritise terma.

Kagyupa has widely accepted many terma such as Jatson Nyingpa cycle, so usually it's not aproblem. Sakyapa also practice some terma, especially after Jamyang Khyentse wanpo. Ihave heard a Sakya master disagreed the saying that 'green tara and white tara are two tearsfrom Avalokesrivara's eyes', which many nyingma masters said so. But he doesn't have anyproblem about chanting Vajraguru mantra or practicing Padmasambhava or terma.


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p55130)by Nosta » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:02 pm

Accordingly to buddhism, after Shakyamuni the next Buddha will be Maytreya, so i dintunderstand how Padmasambhava could be a incarnation of Amitabha. Can someone explainme this paradox?


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p55137)by Malcolm » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:32 pm

As to question one: yes.

As to question two, Amitabha is the master of the family of the lotus family.Padmasambhava is regarded as an emanation, a nirmanakāya. Therefore, his Sambhogakāyamanifestation is Avaokiteshvara and his Dharmakāya manifestation is Amitabha, just as forexample, Sakyamuni's family is the tathāgata family, his dharmakāya manifestation isSamantabhadra and his Sambhogakāya manifestation is Vairocana.

As for Padmasambhava, this is an idea that comes from the treasure tradition. I don't think Ihave seen an early pre‐treasure tradition text that makes this claim.

N















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Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p55138)by Malcolm » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:34 pm

In Mahāhyāna, there is a distinction between supreme nirmankāyas, such as Śakyamuni, andso called "variegated" nirmanakāyas such as Padmasambhava, Garab Dorje and so on.

N


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p58029)by Tenso » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:44 am

Almost forgot about this thread. Thanks for the replies.

Namdrol, I've read one of your posts suggesting that Amitabha might of been "borrowed" frompersian religion. How does this effect your understanding?


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p58031)by DarwidHalim » Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:53 am

If I can guess, may be yes.

Padma means lotus. And Amitabha is the lotus family Buddha.


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p58040)by Tilopa » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:52 am

Nosta wrote:Accordingly to buddhism, after Shakyamuni the next Buddha will be Maytreya,so i dint understand how Padmasambhava could be a incarnation of Amitabha.

Can someone explain me this paradox?


narraboth wrote:



















It's an interesting paradox. The Lam Rim so brilliantly and extensively taught by Gelugmasters is also a terma of sorts. Although the original text was composed sometime around1000 AD if you look at the detailed lineage it extends back to Shakyamuni Buddha who is saidto have entrusted the wisdom teachings to Manshushri and the bodhicitta teachings toMaitreya both of whom were residing in pure lands. Here they were preserved until the timewas right for their reintroduction to our world and hundreds of years later they wererecovered by Nargajuna and Asanga respectively. Subsequently they were combined into asingle lineage by Lama Atisha when he wrote 'A Lamp Illuminating the Path'. So if a Gelugpa

tells you they don't accept terma it's always fun to point this out.

But you're right in that they don't rely on termas the way other traditions do.


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p58173)by Jangchup Donden » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:27 am

I've been taught Guru Rinpoche is an emanation of Shakyamuni Buddha. I do believe there'ssome prophecy to support this in the Pali Canon as well.


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p63923)by Tenso » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:00 am

So does one need super human abilities to gain birth in Padmasambhava's Zangdok Palri? Veryhard to find info on this, perhaps someone can shed some light?


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p64122)by kirtu » Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:21 pm

I know a Sakyapa who holds this view (actually of GR as a very, very high Mahasiddha). I'm notsure if he accepts GR as an emanation of Amitabha or if he would have a problem with termaper se. Actually Sakya appears to be a bit nuanced on this point with different lamas takingdifferent positions. However last time I was at his place he had a GR mini‐thangka up.

For Gelugpa, still depends. In general, most of Gelupa repect Padmasambhavaas a mahasiddha who brought vajrayana into Tibet, but they don't necessarilyaccept the authenticity of some terma.

narraboth wrote:For Gelugpa, still depends. In general, most of Gelupa repect Padmasambhavaas a mahasiddha who brought vajrayana into Tibet,















Kirt



That's right, there is the tradition of GR as a tantric emanation of Shakyamuni Buddha. In thisview as I have heard it from Nyingma (in this case Palyul) teachers GR follows ShakyamuniBuddha in all the world systems that Shakyamuni Buddha manifests.

Kirt



No, much more like Amitabha's Pure Land at least from the Nyingma perspective. This maynot be universal even within Nyingma.

Kirt



Jangchup Donden wrote:I've been taught Guru Rinpoche is an emanation of Shakyamuni Buddha. I dobelieve there's some prophecy to support this in the Pali Canon as well.

Ryoto wrote:So does one need super human abilities to gain birth in Padmasambhava'sZangdok Palri? Very hard to find info on this, perhaps someone can shed somelight?

Namdrol wrote:

Nosta wrote:Accordingly to buddhism, after Shakyamuni the next Buddha will beMaytreya, so i dint understand how Padmasambhava could be aincarnation of Amitabha. Can someone explain me this paradox?















And what again is a variegated nirmanakaya?

Kirt


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p64197)by Tenso » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:40 am

Hi Kirt,

Do you know where I can get more info on this subject? Any books you would recommend?


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p64308)by kirtu » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:41 am

In Mahāhyāna, there is a distinction between supreme nirmankāyas, such asŚakyamuni, and so called "variegated" nirmanakāyas such as Padmasambhava,Garab Dorje and so on.

kirtu wrote:

No, much more like Amitabha's Pure Land at least from the Nyingmaperspective. This may not be universal even within Nyingma.

Kirt

Ryoto wrote:So does one need super human abilities to gain birth inPadmasambhava's Zangdok Palri? Very hard to find info on this, perhapssomeone can shed some light?

Ryoto wrote:

kirtu wrote:

Ryoto wrote:So does one need super human abilities to gain birth in











Hi Ryoto ‐

I don't have any ready references as my few remaining physical books are in storage as are allmy notebooks. I'll check my Kindle books when I can and check with one of my Palyul teacherswho will be here next week.

Kirt


Re: Padmasambhava as the incarnation of Amitabha? (#p64411)by Tenso » Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:14 pm

thank you sir

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Do you know where I can get more info on this subject? Any books you wouldrecommend?

No, much more like Amitabha's Pure Land at least from the Nyingmaperspective. This may not be universal even within Nyingma.

Padmasambhava's Zangdok Palri? Very hard to find info onthis, perhaps someone can shed some light?





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