Plutonian - not Scorpiotopic posted Thu, August 25, 2011 - 9:16 PM by  ENIAD I have Pluto aspecting every planet except one but I have little Scorpio except a Pisces Moon in the Scorpion sector and an Eight House Chiron in Capricorn.

What is it for the ones among us who are not Scorpions but experience many aspects of Pluto and how do we differ? posted by:

ENIAD Montreal 482 friends

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 9:27 PM This is a really interesting question! I have always felt there was a difference too, though I don't presume to know the delineation. Thanks for asking this. join to post

shas...

22 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 10:41 PM old threads:

tribes.tribe.net/astrologe...290a3d72c7

scorpios.tribe.net/thread/9...7f9f61bbbjoin to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 11:13 PM

I really don't believe in zodiac sign Astrology any more.

Scorpio is a fixed water sign which means that it tends to be fixated emotionally leading it to be emotionally intense

as a watersign, it is associated with being sensitive, feeling-oriented as well as intuitive but from the emotional perspective. security and stability in the emotional and psychic realm

Pluto is a transneptunian dwarf planet. As an object that orbits beyond Neptune, it is actually more otherworldly. It has a highly eccentric orbit and tends to orbit well off the ecliptic, and so it's a nonconformist. It's actually an unusual planet because of its small size and orbit, and so that's why astronomers were suspicious about Pluto not being a planet. After the kuiper belt was discovered, astronomers realized that Pluto was actually a kuiper belt. Even though Pluto is a nonconformist in comparison to the planets, it's not an actual nonconformist when compared to objects in the kuiper belt

Pluto is named after the Roman God of the Underworld, and so it can be associated with death,transformation,elimination.

I believe that differences between Scorpio and Pluto are Scorpio is more about stability and security and emotions Pluto is more otherworldy and nonconformist join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 11:27 PM

according to astrologers that don't believe in the use of the outer planets like Vedic Astrologers

Scorpio gets its traits from: its element - water (emotions,feelings,sensitivity,nurturing) its modality - fixed (stability,security,stubbornness,obstinacy,steadfast) its traditional ruler - Mars (assertion,passion,physical drive)

There is a lot of New Age stuff that has had a large impact in Astrology

Before Neptune wasn't discovered, Pisces wasn't known for its spaciness nor otherworldliness for that matter.

Pisces got its traits from its element - water (emotions,feelings,sensitivity,nurturing) its modality - mutable (learning,teaching, adaptable, changeable,easily adjust to new things) its traditional ruler - Jupiter (expansion,judgment,beliefs)

Aquarius got its traits from its element - air (social,communications,intellect,ideas) its modality - fixed (stability,security,stubbornness,obstinacy,steadfast) its traditional ruler - Saturn (structure,discipline,authority,seriousness) join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 11:29 PM

"Before Neptune wasn't discovered, Pisces wasn't known for its spaciness nor otherworldliness for that matter."

Before Neptune was discovered join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, August 25, 2011 - 11:31 PM Very interesting subject, ENIAD! I think the answer lies in classical esoterics, where planets and signs are viewed as transmitters for cosmic rays. According to classical esoterics, there are 7 rays - 7 very distinct types of energy, to be seen as 7 basic colours - heard as 7 musical notes - felt as 7 distinct psychological patterns in human makeup - distributed to the human body through 7 chakra's - and so on.

In this esoteric system, the scorpio sign is transmitting 4th ray energy, whereas planet pluto is transmitting 1st ray energy. The 4th ray is the middle ray and can therefor be described as egocentric, with equal amounts of activating and passive energies. People with strong 4th ray energies have the capacity to grow spiritualy through constant struggle and crisis. They also have excellent capacities to merge. They also master the art of creative living - the 4th ray is prominent among artists.

The 1st ray on the other hand, is quite a different matter. The 1st ray is destruction, full stop. The purpose of the 1st ray is to destroy and clean up anything that is no longer vital, in order to make room for new life. It is absolutely essential. Just imagine a world without pluto/1st ray. We would no longer be able to move or breath because the whole planet would be crowded with creatures that had lost their vitality ages ago, but were unable to die and be removed.

People with strong 1st ray influence are strong willed, dynamic, fearless and independent. They express the pure energy of the life force. It is essential for people with strong 1st ray influence to have some empathic qualities in their makeup as well. If not, they can be monsters. join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, August 26, 2011 - 7:47 PM This is very comforting, Thanks. join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 8:24 AM Scorpios don’t form relationships they take hostages – they want intense, ever-lasting bonds and non-superficial relationships – fixed emotions and fixed human alliances. They don’t allow change into their emotional world and so trust can be an issue but when they do they are extremely loyal. Scorpio is possessive and wants ownership expressed through progeny which makes them very sexual. Scorpio has a number of symbolic representations including the scorpion, snake, eagle, phoenix. It represents the cycle of change – birth, death, renewal. If you are not familiar with Howard Sasportas’ work on Scorpio & Pluto do yourself a favour. He explains the cycle of Scorpio through these animal symbols on the Scorpio journey of evolution.

Pluto represents the underworld or unconscious, and so when we are Plutonic or having Pluto transits we are confronted with our deep-seated emotions which inevitably come to the fore – a forced confrontation. Whilst Scorpio is secretive, Pluto eventually uncovers what is hidden. As a result Pluto can be aligned with deep rage – I suppose the saying “better out than in” applies here. Pluto represents transformation via catalyst of emotion. Pluto brings the very thing (change) that Scorpio resists.

Pluto represents the feminine, the matriarch, as similarly Scorpio is a yin sign. Pluto can represent fears, phobias and depression if the person fails to harness the power inherent of Pluto. Pluto is also the rhythms and cycles of the earth and so the analogy for the person – birth, death, renewal. Pluto is therefore the raw energy of joy and grief – gut-based emotion. Pluto power can be represented through the mystery that the Pluto person represents – this is shared with Scorpio – and power as money. Pluto types may have problems with authority due to power differential – different to Saturn which may have problems with authority due to issues of control. Pluto is the deep emotional stuff of life.

If Pluto is touching many of your planets natally you will experience and project intense emotional energy – even if this planet is Mercury or Jupiter. For example, with Mercury you will be an intense & powerful communicator who is obsessed or passionate about their ideas – Jupiter will heighten the desire for power, perhaps the signature of a megalomaniac (of course one aspect does not a megalomaniac make, but for the sake of an example…).

Pluto transits therefore allow us to tap unconscious energies, stuff we have buried, and so gives us the balance, if we’ve been yang we will be yin, and vice versa, and we may have to let go of things that mean a lot to us. So Scorpio will want to hang on to prove a point (especially in the snake stage of evolution) but Pluto energy allows us to let go when the time is right – sometimes the cosmos decides when this will happen rather than us making a conscious choice. To be forewarned (keeping track of our transits) is to be forearmed – to let go gracefully. Through letting go our untapped potential rises to the fore. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 9:45 AM "If Pluto is touching many of your planets natally you will experience and project intense emotional energy – even if this planet is Mercury or Jupiter. For example, with Mercury you will be an intense & powerful communicator who is obsessed or passionate about their ideas"

I have mercury square pluto and saturn and this is where I think my severe OCD comes into play. I have "obsessive, ruminating" thoughts that are cyclical and utterly intrusive (though for whatever blessed reason they have been much better of late). But they have led me into all sorts of strife in the past. I definitely attribute the obsessively single-focal nature of these ruminations to the pluto square, and I think that saturn adds to their morose weight. join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 10:06 AM Saturn represents our fears, so Pluto/Saturn combo may be the fear of annihilation or having power asserted on them and/or an obsession with order. For example, if you don't have the order in your life something terrible will happen = OCD. Pluto/Mercury is a significator of worry. Positively this Pluto/Saturn combo can use their power in a responsible and controlled way - and with Mercury can get their message across in a powerful way. Pluto/Saturn will identify with the underdog and may be their advocate or champion in some way. Some nice stuff in amongst this heavy energy. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 10:32 AM

I'd think that Mercury-Saturn-Pluto combinations would be great for paying attention to detail , noticing details that other people, being well-organized. They could be skeptical and not believe in things easily. They have to investigate and research things before they believe in something.

I think that there could be great business sense with that configuration. It can be a B.S. detector. It could be due to the penetrating insight in connection to Pluto and the realistic,down to earthness of Saturn.

It can be a great configuration for scientists.

I have Mercury sextile both Geocentric South Saturn Node and Geocentric South Pluto Node I also have Mercury in a golden section aspect to Pluto with only 1 minute orb.

Dr. Theodor Landscheidt came up with the use of geocentric planetary nodes and golden section aspects in Astrology.

I also believe that Mercury-Saturn combinations with Pluto's fellow dwarf planets are also similar to Mercury-Saturn-Pluto combinations. It's just logical think that. Pluto isn't the only transneptunian object. There are many others including even large ones like Eris,Makemake,Haumea,Sedna,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion,Salacia,and Huya which are dwarf planet candidates. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 10:35 AM Hmm yeah, I inject a fairly *healthy* (ahem) dose of skepticism into most of my musings... It's been a year since my last serious existential crisis though; touch wood I can keep this record rolling... join to post

ka-r...

6

Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 10:46 AM Yes, a great scientist or researcher - as Pluto uncovers that which is hidden or buried - and the person will do this work with great passion and be emotionally invested - their research will be their baby. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 11:35 AM "Yes, a great scientist or researcher - as Pluto uncovers that which is hidden or buried - and the person will do this work with great passion and be emotionally invested - their research will be their baby."

This is spot-on. I become obsessed with my ideas and projects - they take on gargantuan dimensions and I don't let anyone get in my/their/"our" way - they quite literally do become my progeny and I nurture them as such, devoting all of my time and energy into their care and development. This can become disturbing when the paradigm I'm funneling such vehement effort into is a coarse delusion. I'm finally learning this, now. I don't mean to sound conceited here, because it's truly not something I'm proud of (as it has bitten me in the ass so many times - or rather I've torn off my nose to spite my face), but I really am very good at getting whatever I want. The catch is that what I "want" so much at the time is often what I truly don't want once I've actualised it, if you catch my drift. It's an egoic delusion I've been chasing and as such, is illusory and fleeting. And so I am compelled to the base of the mountain and start the ascent yet again, each time trying to venture through the wooded depths without steering off course, and flying like Icarus, headfirst into the sun. join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 6:00 PM “very good at getting whatever I want. The catch is that what I "want" so much at the time is often what I truly don't want once I've actualised it”

Where is Aries (house) or Mars (house & sign & aspects) in your chart ? Your comment above is reminiscent of Arian energy, driven by competitive edge and bored with the prize itself.

Having said that, it is worth considering that Saturn/Pluto may sabotage – as Saturn wants structure, Pluto tears it down – this includes self-sabotage, particularly if personal planets involved ie. Mercury is one in your chart I believe. Saturn wants control, Pluto wants power – you could be a formidable opponent. Sometimes we have control with no power and sometimes power with no control. How does this work for you? The key to harness this

energy is in earlier post…advocate for others – be the idea/voice/action for the underdog.

What I read is a description of your perseverance and belief in something - this is a strength. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 6:11 PM

According to Reinhold Ebertin's Combination Of Stellar Influences (COSI)

Mercury = Saturn/Pluto The urge to do research work, thoroughness, taciturnity. - The desire to solve difficult problems. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, August 28, 2011 - 12:35 AM "Where is Aries (house) or Mars (house & sign & aspects) in your chart ? Your comment above is reminiscent of Arian energy, driven by competitive edge and bored with the prize itself."

I have venus conjunct mars in pisces in the 5th - they square neptune in the 1st and are inconjunct pluto. My saturn and pluto are conjunct, and they square mercury but trine my sun. I hope this is the information you were after. My chart is in my profile but I'm not fyshing for a reading here lol, I just want to be accurate in what I am disclosing. I have always thought my mars was kind of piss-weak, being in pisces and not aspecting my sun or ascendant or anything, and basically just doing druggie dreamy delusional stuff to my neptune :P I can't wait until my course starts so I can actually read into these things with some depth.

Thank you for your insights though, very interesting. "Self sabotage" is a huge theme in my life, most definitely. The number of times my mother has used that very phrase... join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, August 27, 2011 - 6:11 PM

Illusion & delusion of ideas belongs to the realm of Neptune/Mercury. join to post

Scor...

2 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, August 28, 2011 - 9:22 AM Join my tribe called "plutonians". join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, August 28, 2011 - 10:29 PM Why? Why does everyone who's figured something out choose to take it away and compartalize it? (my new word) What can you accomplish on your own dear Pluto that Uranus can't help with? Why can't a wider audience be better than a singelton?

Seriously, what's up with starting these 'individual' tribe threads that die in a matter of weeks, months? Can't we just speak the same language (in this case, astrology)? Why do we have to branch into segments of 'no one understands me.' If you can explain yourself, don't you want everyone to understand you? Not just 'your people?' join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, August 28, 2011 - 11:02 PM Good question. join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 5:27 AM Because they can. join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 5:33 AM Seriously, it helps weed through what would be huge threaded diatribe if we had one generalised area. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 6:01 AM *Shrugs* I'm not incredibly plutonian, but I still joined her tribe. As karen can verify, I love going to places where I don't belong (scorp moon tribe) :P And other places where I'm probably not all that welcomed, such as the Leo den or Aries tribe... Hehe. Oh well. join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 8:10 PM "I love going to places where I don't belong (scorp moon tribe) :P And other places where I'm probably not all that welcomed, such as the Leo den or Aries tribe..."

Love your humor Nin-Ja-fish, must be that 'double' Sag rising of yours ;-)

Perhaps why I'm perplexed by all this is two fold (1) there is a difference between folks who have their planets conj the asc from the 12th vs. those who have it conj from the 1st; some of us want to dissolve borders, others want to maintain it (even if they don't think that way). And (b) From experience, many 'singleton' tribes are so focused on one issue that 'appears out of thin air.' It might be a spark, perhaps, a genuine interest, but usually what looks easy to maintain 'e.g. a fully functioning tribe' is not at all easy. In fact, it becomes a headache for everyone involved. You start to feel you have to contribute because you don't want other's to feel left out, and then the natural order of discourse loses it's ground quickly because everyone is grasping for information that is not even there (or natural). Not sure why I even bother, I just thought...'wow, again, why does this keep happening? Why don't they see what I see?" And of course, that sounds like pure arrogance, so I won't bother defending it.

All in all, I'm quite certain I know who is really plutonian and who is scorpio...And yes, Eniad, they are not at all the same things. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 11:11 PM <All in all, I'm quite certain I know who is really plutonian and who is scorpio>

The plutonians are the ones with the backbones? join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, August 29, 2011 - 11:58 PM "The plutonians are the ones with the backbones?"

No. The plutonians are the ones who will never let you see their 'backbone.' LOL

Dawn, I find your way of 'translating' most peculiar. It takes me off track (all for the good, no doubt). I like you, and once I like someone that's all she wrote...so here's what I'm trying to say:

Plutonians dig for treasure. Scorps just dig. join to post

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  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 12:31 AM "Plutonians dig for treasure. Scorps just dig."

Awesome! I love it! join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 4:26 AM My peculiar translating is what I call humour. Of course on the internet, humour is a tricky thing. I like you too, queen ;-)

join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioWed, August 31, 2011 - 6:08 AM @ Queen

“No. The plutonians are the ones who will never let you see their 'backbone.”

No, this would be Scorpio…secretive, private. Plutonian backbone is very obvious – they have so much staying power – they emanate power… in love, in thought, in sexuality, emotional intensity…or they repress this energy and are intense bundles of energy until they erupt like a volcano.

“Plutonians dig for treasure. Scorps just dig.”

Scorpios withhold of themselves and dig for information so that they may trust – wary until it feels right. join to post

This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioWed, August 31, 2011 - 2:46 PM "No, this would be Scorpio…secretive, private. Plutonian backbone is very obvious – they have so much staying power – they emanate power… in love, in thought, in sexuality, emotional intensity…or they repress this energy and are intense bundles of energy until they erupt like a volcano."

I like your explanation better Karen. But Plutonians would never explain themselves that way, would they? join to post

ka-r...

6 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 10:17 PM An astrologer worth a pinch of salt would explain themselves that way if they were Plutonian. If Pluto is 12th or 4th house they may not be conscious of the energy. Yes, I don't know that

generally people go around thinking "I'm so Plutonian", because astrology means one's sun sign to majority. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 12:30 AM "there is a difference between folks who have their planets conj the asc from the 12th vs. those who have it conj from the 1st; some of us want to dissolve borders, others want to maintain it (even if they don't think that way)."

I really like this. Lol, I wasn't sure if my sag rising was somewhat watered down by the 12th house jupiter connection. And even if astrodienst (and several astrologers) interpret my jupiter/uranus conjunct asc to be in the 1st house, I am now perceiving it to be a 12th affair. What you have just so eloquently described resonates with me - I really believe I'm more inclined to border dissolution. I mean, we're all in this together, are we not? Drama can be entertaining, and certainly has its place on the stage of life, but the ego's divisive nature ("tribe-like" mentality) escalates all too quickly into open warfare. Using our energies for purposes of connection and understanding is my preference. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 9:10 AM No need for planets in scorpio to be plutonian, but the owner of a scorpio sun/moon/ascendant and aspects between pluto and personal planets would be both. How can you tell what makes the biggest impact, if you are scorpionic or plutonian...or both? err join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 11:47 AM

As a person that doesn't believe in the use zodiac signs any more, I don't believe that Pluto has anything to do with Scorpio. I just think that it was part of a convenient scheme with Pluto thought as being a planet even though it's really a kuiper belt object. I had started doubting the rulerships of the modern planets because it contradicted Ptolemy's Planetary Rulership Scheme of day and night rulers with Sun and Moon setting the tone with

them ruling Leo and Cancer respectively.

I have Sun,Mercury,and Venus in Scorpio. Mainstream Astrologers would say that I am Plutonian, but I wouldn't.

I have no significant Pluto aspects in my chart. As for Pluto's fellow transneptunian dwarf planets , well.......that's a totally different story.

I do have direct midpoints involving Pluto. According to Robert Hand's book, HOROSCOPE SYMBOLS, they can be just as important as regular aspects.

In Regular Chart which is Ecliptic Longitude: Sun conjunct Jupiter/Pluto midpoint - '46

In Right Ascension which is Equatorial Longitude: Sun conjunct Neptune/Pluto midpoint - '34

I have Sun as the apex of direct Pluto midpoint pictures

Theodor Landscheidt came up with Golden Section Aspects and Geocentric Planetary Nodes in Astrology

Sun 34'22 Pluto - '06 Mercury 47'30 Pluto - '01 Mars 145'37 Pluto - '34

My Sun 111'15 Mars too

I have Sun,Mars,and Pluto in Golden Aspect to each other corresponding midpoint picture of Pluto square Sun/Mars midpoint - '14

Mercury sextile Geocentric South Pluto Node - '02 Venus trine Geocentric North Pluto Node - '31

note: I have Mercury in both Golden Section aspect to Pluto and a Geocentric Pluto Node remember Theodor Landscheidt was pioneer of both things in Astrology join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 12:04 PM

I forgot one.

In Right Ascension: Midheaven oppose Pluto/Node midpoint - '23 join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 12:28 PM I would say your sun sign makes the biggest impact. And the pluto aspect is colouring it. That is at least how it feels for me. Imagine it isn't pluto who's aspecting, but say jupiter. Then you will have no problems in answering your own question, I suppose. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioTue, August 30, 2011 - 12:29 PM (this was to Yvonne). join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioWed, August 31, 2011 - 7:32 AM @dawn. that would make me plutonian rather than scorpionic. Idk, it would be easier if my moon was placed in another sign since both of them are very personal, but then again it´s not that important to know. the differences aren´t that major, right? just curious :) about everything... join to post

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  to YvonneWed, August 31, 2011 - 10:13 AM Hi Yvonne, I had not seen your chart before, but now that I did, maybe I should give you a more elaborated answer (I thought you had a scorpio sun).

Your pluto is aspecting many planets, meaning that for example your gemini mars has plutonic tendencies as well. Your mars likes to do anything that a gemini mars likes to do, but he will do that with the endless energy that pluto provides. Your mars expression is probably a lot more powerful as well. That is how plutonic energy works if it is aspecting another planet.

In the case of your moon, it is still a scorpio moon with all the typical scorpio traits, and nothing can change that. So you will be extremely sensitive, somewhat secretive, not immediately trusting just anybody, being able to see the darker parts in others and so on. Pluto will add to your scorpio moon a powerful willful energy. It may be impossible for you to forgive someone, once you feel betrayed. Whatever you feel is always intensified by the (sometimes self destructive) energy of pluto. It also indicates that during infancy, you had to endure a destructive environment - or at least that was how it felt for you. This has left deep marks in your subconscious which will probably act throughout your life as sources & cycles of crisis and growth.

I hope this makes sense. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: to YvonneThu, September 1, 2011 - 1:39 PM Thank you for taking the time to elaborate Dawn :) And you are right, having a personal planet in scorpio and pluto making aspects to personal planets might make you a little bit of both...

I´m secretive, having my mercury in gemini kind of ruin it for me though :) But then again my 3 house cusp is in pisces so nobody really understand what I´m saying anyway :) I´ve actually tried explaining a few things about myself for a friend (scorpio rising) and also a fellow scorpio moon. Like the part about forgiving when betrayed, both of them were chocked hearing about my response when hurt. I usually go silent, and can stay that way for years. I know it´s unpleasent being on the reciving end but there is nothing I can do about it. But from what I read that would be a normal respons for a scorpio moon so I was actually surprised about their reaction towards me when I told them. Or not, there is a reason for keeping my behaviour as a secret :) Both of them have mercury in earth, maybe that´s why they didn´t understand.

I have plenty of air and fire so I do forgive in the end, but not always. brought up in a

destructiv environment, yes. Not like I was beaten up or anything, controll and manipulation is more like it. I don´t want to take over this thread, it´s a good one. sorry! join to post

Dark...

14 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, September 1, 2011 - 3:16 PM Dude Raymond, stop going around preaching about your non-beliefs in Signs, people obviously don't care. join to post

Unsu...

  Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, September 1, 2011 - 5:38 PM

"Dude Raymond, stop going around preaching about your non-beliefs in Signs, people obviously don't care"

I wasn't preaching. I merely stated that I don't believe in zodiac signs any more.

Then I explained the differences between Scorpio and Pluto. I talked about Scorpio's element (water), modality (fixed), and its traditional rulership (Mars). I was trying to make the point that the zodiac sign, Scorpio can get its traits from the combination of the element,water,and its traditional ruler.

I talked about the astronomical,orbital features of Pluto.......the fact that it's a kuiper belt object that orbits well off the ecliptic and has a highly eccentric orbit, making it a nonconformist object compared to the planets.

That's how I made a point to show the differences between Scorpio and Pluto. There are actually significant when you consider the astronomical symbolisms of Pluto. There are even significant differences between Pisces and Neptune as well as between Aquarius and Uranus. The thing is that astrologers just give modern rulerships to a sign, and then that sign is said to have the traits of the planet that rules it. In traditional Astrology, the interpretations of Scorpio,Pisces,and Aquarius were different before Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto were discovered. Today, Modern Astrology is pretty much New Age Astrology.

also......as a person, I have the right to express my views as long as they are astrological in here.

If you don't like alternative viewpoints that counter and question your belief system, then that's your problem. It's not mine.

I have a "to each, his/her own approach"

I am not the type to tell people what they should or should not do. I have never done that in any thread.

You don't own me, and so don't tell me what to do. I am not your slave. join to post

Nataqua

146 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 1:41 PM "Dude Raymond, stop going around preaching about your non-beliefs in Signs, people obviously don't care. "

DarkFairy, has your account been hacked? I am a bit perplexed at the random negative comments you posted here yesterday. It is important to me that you respond to the pm I sent yesterday... join to post

Partha

27 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 1:01 PM To live with an immense and proud composure: always beyond. - To have and not have one's feelings, one's for and against, voluntarily, to condescend to them for hours, to sit on them, as if on a horse, often as if on a donkey: - for one needs to know how to use their stupidity as well as their fire. To preserve one's three hundred foregrounds, as well as one's dark glasses: for there are occasions when no one should be allowed to look into our eyes, even less into our "reasons." And to select for company that mischievous and cheerful vice, courtesy. And to remain master of one's four virtues: courage, insight, sympathy, and loneliness. For solitude is a virtue with us, as a sublime tendency and impulse for cleanliness, which senses how contact between one person and another - "in society" - must inevitably bring impurity with it. Every community somehow, somewhere, sometime makes people - "common."

Aphorism 284: Beyond Good and evil by Friedrich Nietzsche

Sun in Libra opposite Pluto in Aries; Scorpio Ascendant: www.astrotheme.com/portrait...9zRg6.htm join to post

Unsu...

  to parthaFri, September 2, 2011 - 2:17 PM Nice :-)

As it happens, mr. Nietsche had his 2nd uranus return last week. I wonder how that must feel.

I forgot the name of the astrologer, but someone once examined transits of famous dead people, and noticed that nearly almost all those famous deads, were dusted and put into the spotlights when they had a major transit. So apparently charts don't end when we have finished breathing. join to post

Luis...

18 Re: to parthaFri, September 2, 2011 - 4:37 PM DarkFairy has a point... I think. Raymond and I have gotten into a few arguments in the past because of this same habit of his of stating the same fact over and over and over again in every singlew new post he creates during a given time. His non-beliefs is the most recent example. Past examples include dyslexia or aslexia or something, changing to whole house system, and ethnic origins. Not looking for a brawl or anything, I'm just pointing out how this may as well constitute a pattern... join to post

Nataqua

146 Re: to parthaFri, September 2, 2011 - 7:15 PM >>>"DarkFairy has a point... I think. Raymond and I have gotten into a few arguments in the past because of this same habit of his of stating the same fact over and over and over again in every singlew new post he creates during a given time. His non-beliefs is the most recent example. Past examples include dyslexia or aslexia or something, changing to whole house system, and ethnic origins. Not looking for a brawl or anything, I'm just pointing out how this may as well constitute a pattern... "<<<

Luis Internet Messiah,

I'll remind you of the statement written on astronuts masthead.:

>>>"We want everyone to feel welcome here, but given the tribe's popularity and past history with trolling and flaming, we've had to set the tribe as 'moderated' :( Now luckily it doesn't happen very often that we have to deal with spamming, trolling or personal attacks on others, but it does happen from time to time. With that in mind flaming or insulting others will not be tolerated. One warning will be issued for those who feel compelled to attack others; further assaults will be met with a boot. Same rule applies for spam and any sort of trolling! "<<<

Raymond's posts are no where near infringing on the stated guidelines. DarkFairy's posts are. As I have said before, I have no interest in micro-managing the content here. As well, consider this; if I were to post similar random, negative comments in either of DarkFairy's tribes, would that behavior be welcome there?

~N join to post

Diga...

5 Re: to parthaSat, September 3, 2011 - 3:26 AM I agree with the moderator. If anything, Raymond's posts are lightyears ahead of petty nitpicking exhibited by some here. join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: to parthaSat, September 3, 2011 - 4:31 AM And thus the discussion grinds to a halt under the weight of brilliant minds. join to post

Luis...

18 Re: to parthaSat, September 3, 2011 - 5:40 AM " if I were to post similar random, negative comments in either of DarkFairy's tribes, would that behavior be welcome there? "

No, because you would do that in tribes of hers. So, you'd be posting negative stuff about the moderator... which is not the case here. BUT I get your point and I rest my case (didn't really have one to begin with). join to post

Nataqua

146 Re: to LuisSat, September 3, 2011 - 7:30 AM re read my post - I did not say 'random negative comments *about* DarkFairy' which is what you've implied. ? join to post

This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Luis...

18 Re: to LuisSat, September 3, 2011 - 1:46 PM Oh, you're right. Like I said, I rest my case. join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: to LuisSat, September 3, 2011 - 4:02 PM I rest on my case of beer. join to post

ENIAD

482 Name of thread: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, September 3, 2011 - 4:12 PM Worth my weight of tritium, deuterium, or lithium deuteride and depleted uranium. Not salt. join to post

Luis...

18 Re: Name of thread: Plutonian - not ScorpioSat, September 3, 2011 - 4:37 PM Oh, I've been cutting off my consumption of beer, E. Don't want a super sized hanging belly by the time I'm... older than I already am. I prefer liquors now. Got any whiskey?

That doesn't have any salt either. join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: Name of thread: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, September 4, 2011 - 3:55 PM Nope, sorry. Would you like a swig of depleted uranium? join to post

queen

13 Re: Name of thread: Plutonian - not ScorpioSun, September 4, 2011 - 10:26 PM "Would you like a swig of depleted uranium?"

What a perfect description of a Pluto/Uranus conjunction in a chart... join to post

Nexus7

19 Re: Name of thread: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, September 5, 2011 - 2:37 AM www.astrotheme.com/portrait...9zRg6.htm

Nietsche's chart. He had an exact Sun/Pluto opposition. And the Node on his Asc/Moon midpoint, which may or may not speak ofhis desire to breaknew ground somehow.

And Mercury/Mars.

If he was such an examplar of Übermencsh, why did he go insane? join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, September 5, 2011 - 6:30 AM Because he experimented with getting syphilis which at the time had a reputation for inducing trance and illumination and what people were doing in these circles. Syphilis was a forerunner experiment effect of LSD and what Huxley describes in The Doors of Perception. However, there was no cure for the disease at the time and it destroyed his brain. His very religious sister took over and rewrote his writing trying to rehabilitate him into Nietzsche the Christian saint as Nietzsche grew totally insane from organic causes.

The only planet Pluto is not aspecting in my chart is Uranus which I have at the ascendant and which aspects pretty much all the planets too. If Uranus makes a square to a planet, Pluto trines or sextiles it and vice-versa...crunch crunch zip zip crunch...bing. join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioMon, September 5, 2011 - 9:40 PM "The only planet Pluto is not aspecting in my chart is Uranus which I have at the ascendant and which aspects pretty much all the planets too. If Uranus makes a square to a planet, Pluto trines or sextiles it and vice-versa...crunch crunch zip zip crunch...bing."

Like I said... incredible job describing a pluto conj Uranus. Even if you don't have it... join to post

queen

13 Re: to parthaFri, September 2, 2011 - 6:33 PM Nietzsche is my favorite mathematicians/philosphor of all times. He said this about religion (or any hard, fast rule that people think they need to adhere to):

"Far be it for me to kick the crutch from someone who needs it." join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: to parthaFri, September 2, 2011 - 6:43 PM Interesting critter. Nietzsche needs his bust in a niche next to Einstein and Voltaire...let's check the birth chart. join to post

ENIAD

482 Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 7:26 PM Nietzsche is a Scorpio Rising with Aries Pluto (wow, that must spell raw power!) aspecting 4 planets, MC and Rising...heated debate as if he is more Plutonian than Scorpion, I tend to say Plutonian though his rising may have granted him the impetus to double-check "reality" with discernment that is finely honed plumbed by Pluto and more (Sag philosopher moon - its natural element). Crutches is what it is, just like in Nietzsche's time but whole societies, not just individuals are on them and it is dangerous.

I think that religions stopped being philosophically relevant somewhere around the Fourteenth Century if not earlier but we are still stuck there while our technology is racing quickly way ahead of us. We don't need more technology at this time. it is in fact dangerous. We need the ability to think for ourselves and stand on our own outside the herd mentality. join to post

ENIAD

482 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 7:28 PM Does being critical of criticism makes one's comment negative? join to post

queen

13 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioFri, September 2, 2011 - 7:55 PM "Does being critical of criticism makes one's comment negative?"

Not at all, you do remember darkfairy pointing out 'spelling' procedures, do you not? I, for one, love that, so long as it doesn't dissolve the message. join to post

Silvia

10 Re: Plutonian - not ScorpioThu, September 8, 2011 - 8:04 AM You know, it's just my personal interpretation but I always thought of all the signs as being the "babies" of the celestial bodies, whether they're planets or not (like the sun and moon). The planets are the raw energy that can only be interpreted through archetypes, which are universal (comparable to the major arcana of the tarot). The signs are the day to day people we are expressed through the planets. We, or rather, the signs in their placements in our natal charts, are symbols, which are given to cultural limitations because they are variable across the world (this is comparable to the minor arcana of the tarot). In tarot, I was learning that the familiar 78 card deck, starting with the number 0, The Fool card, is called "The Fools Journey" and it starts with the 21 cards of the major arcana, which are the archetype cards (universal, transcending), and they are meant to be interpreted as themes in the human condition, regardless of the details, so to speak. And then the 56 minor arcana cards are to be interpreted through symbolism (individual, worldly).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that here's this ethereal, other worldy universe out there ruled by archetypes, and then there's earth, bios, and reality for lack of a better word, ruled through symbolism. Who we are, based off our signs in our natal charts, are the manifestation of this awesome, universal energy, which is compartmentalized for our understanding into the different "archetypal-celestial-bodies"

So, I think that the key to understanding what Pluto means in your chart, is to get a grip of what Pluto's energy represents in this "fools journey." From my understanding of Pluto and how it's archetypes manifest, basically on a Wednesday afternoon, there's something "brewing underground." You may be thrown into quite a few moral pickles, forcing you to look within and reflect on which path is the best to take for your own personal transformation. Pluto represents Fatalism and transformation to me, however, i tend to confuse Saturn a bit with Pluto. (I think the main difference is that Saturn is about discipline of others and experiencing the discipline of others, while Pluto is about self-discipline) Anyway, on that note I believe that the major themes/archetypes: especially love (sacrifice and transformation) and death (ends and new beginnings) play a dominant role in your life