Playoff Games - Tactical Weighting

8/3/2019 Playoff Games - Tactical Weighting

http://slidepdf.com/reader/full/playoff-games-tactical-weighting 1/40

Club 24 Thread: Playoff games - Tactical weightinghttp://www.xperteleven.com/viewLeagueMessageN.aspx?threadID=5868331&read=1&Lnr=0&dh=4

Bejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]

Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Ämne: Playoff games - Tactical weightingSkrivet: 2009-12-22 02:17:20Citera

Svara

Are playoff games tactically weighted lower (like cup games) than league games?

Just I lost a playoff game from my cycle today and I pretty much destroyed my opponent on tactics, won 3-0 against aslightly stronger team that day.. I know the game is neutral, but I expected to drop out of the lobby as it was that good..but it seemed not.

Maybe it's because it's neutral? I don't know, but surely that is no worse than a strong home win?

Or maybe the difference between Bebbeth and I was too large, not sure, regardless, still alive and kicking for the top spot!

Deus Ex Machina.. future XCL winners.

Flytta till överst på sidanBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Svar till: BejjitaSkrivet: 2009-12-22 02:41:49Citera

Svara

Here are the tactics BTW:

http://new.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1075338&dh=1

3-4-3 << Formation >> 4-4-2Defensive << Playing style >> OffensiveThrough plays << Offence >> VariedNormal << Defence >> Tighten the wingsYes << Prepared >> NoCareful << Aggression >> Normal

No << Long balls >> NoNo << Pressure >> NoNo << Offside traps >> NoYes << Cheating >> NoYes << Win bonus >> NoRak Prasertchai << Playmaker >> Jalen Thatcher Rocco Brighi << Tightly marked >> NoneEvert Ottosson << Captain >> Rocco Brighi




Flytta till överst på sidanColinzink [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Colinzink]Blev medlem:

2008-01-18


Svara

Pretty sure it is weighted as a cup game...that's what ties to my personal experience with playoff matches neways.

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands,and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!

Flytta till överst på sidanNeowhite [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Neowhite]Blev medlem:2007-01-06


Svara

I got 12 manager points for a loss in a play a few seasons back. I think I got offence, defence, formation, ref values andthe play maker spot on (although maybe I'm glorifying the memory), but that would suggest league to me.

My signature mentions Jarb.

Flytta till överst på sidanSevenman [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Sevenman]Blev medlem:2008-04-27

Svar till: NeowhiteSkrivet: 2009-12-22 09:09:36

Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 09:11:35Citera

Svara

How do you work out these points?

Today, after yesterdays game I am now ranked 263 and yesterday I was ranked 500, globally, is that how you figure itout? I obviously hit big yesterday I know that much.

Apologies Bejjita for the hijack.



7 (seven) is the natural number following 6 and preceding 8

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Dmandmythdledge [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Dmandmythdledge]Blev medlem:2006-06-04

Svar till: SevenmanSkrivet: 2009-12-22 13:12:44Citera

Svara

Here's the thread that explains how to do it.http://new.xperteleven.com/viewLeagueMessageN.aspx?threadID=5178888&read=1&Lnr=0&dh=4

How points exactly you have is in a different thread though so I'll just post again.

Skill Bars, Manager Points1: [-87, -61]2: [-60, -28]3: [-27, -1]4: [0, 32]5: [33, 59]6: [60, 92]7: [93, 119]8: [120, 152]9: [153, 179]10: [180, 212]11: [213, 239]12: [240, 272]13: [273, 299]14: [300, 332]15: [333, 359]16: [360, 392]17: [393, 419]18: [420, 452]19: [453, 479]20: [480, 512]21: [513, 539]22: [540, 572]23: [573, 599]24: [600, 632]25: [633, 659]26: [660, 692]27: [693, 719]28: [720, 752]29: [753, 779]30: [780, 812]31: [813, 839]

32: [840, 872]33: [873, 899]34: [900, 932]35: [933, 959]36: [960, 992]37: [993, 1019]38: [1020, 1052]39: [1053, 1079]40: [1080, 1112]



The Chaos Cartel...simply the best

Free the Karlos 1

Flytta till överst på sidanSevenman [Kontakta författare inom ligan]

[Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Sevenman]Blev medlem:2008-04-27

Svar till: DmandmythdledgeSkrivet: 2009-12-22 13:25:58Citera

Svara

Cheers Dman but the link doesn't work.


Flytta till överst på sidanDmandmythdledge [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Dmandmythdledge]Blev medlem:2006-06-04


Svara

Then change it to http://www. rather than new.

The Chaos Cartel...simply the best

Free the Karlos 1


Svar till: DmandmythdledgeSkrivet: 2009-12-22 14:02:33Citera

Svara

Nice one mate




Flytta till överst på sidanDuffster [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Användaren är ligaboss för ligan] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!][Duffster]



Svara

I'd reckon with it being neutral it's weighted like a cup game as both are playing as the home team.

The usefulness of a cup is its emptiness.http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=3841256&forumid=26&read=1

Flytta till överst på sidanSaint_Ash [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Saint_Ash]Blev medlem:2007-02-21


Svara

I count it now by where abouts I am relative to where the skill bar started. So I have 12 skill bars, count the groupings till13 then count it the following day. Instead of making a note of the managers within my own grouping.

Do something specialhttp://www.blood.co.uk/platelets/


Svar till: ColinzinkSkrivet: 2009-12-22 15:33:36Citera

Svara

Thanks Zink, Neo and Duff.




Flytta till överst på sidanfranzie [Kontakta författare inom ligan]Blev medlem:2005-05-25


Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaAre playoff games tactically weighted lower (like cup games) than league games?

Are you sure cup games are weighted lower? I'm not.

Flytta till överst på sidanfranzie [Kontakta författare inom ligan]Blev medlem:

2005-05-25

Svar till: BejjitaSkrivet: 2009-12-22 20:49:52Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 20:55:07Citera

Svara

Edit: double post

I've recently bought a laptop. Hate not having a mouse. Prefer yourselves, I'm sure going to do a lot mistakes...


Svar till: franzieSkrivet: 2009-12-22 20:52:25Citera

Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: franzie

Are you sure cup games are weighted lower? I'm not.

I'm not certain (as in - I don't have a quote to support it from iwe), but I have tended to find that my increases in rank havebeen lower from my best cup games as opposed to the league games. This could sometimes be put down to me beingthe stronger team but even when I wasn't I didn't jump too highly.. last season I beat Forza Azzurra in the Euro Leaguequarters and they're stronger than myself and I beat them heavily on tactics (got report if you want it ), and I didn't jumpmuch.






Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: franzieEdit: double post

I've bought a laptop. Hate not having a mouse...

Not a problem Franz.




Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Bejjita

I'm not certain (as in - I don't have a quote to support it from iwe), but I have tended to find that my increases in rank havebeen lower from my best cup games as opposed to the league games. This could sometimes be put down to me beingthe stronger team but even when I wasn't I didn't jump too highly.. last season I beat Forza Azzurra in the Euro Leaguequarters and they're stronger than myself and I beat them heavily on tactics (got report if you want it ), and I didn't jumpmuch.

There could be other reasons why you didn't jump much.I've never calculated manager points, but t's not so easy to increase manager points, if there are few cup matches thenit's not many managers that decrease their ranking. Easier if the whole league has matches.

Another reason why people think i t's more random in cup games is that every match is important and therefor conspiuious. Some tactics can overcome large differnces in strenght.





Svara

Anything you can suggest? I have not calculated how many I have earned before either.. but have a look please, thanks.

http://new.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1133254&dh=1

4-5-1 << Formation >> 3-5-2Normal << Playing style >> CautiousVaried << Offence >> Wing playsTighten the centre << Defence >> NormalYes << Prepared >> YesNormal << Aggression >> NormalNo << Long balls >> NoNo << Pressure >> YesYes << Offside traps >> YesYes << Cheating >> NoYes << Win bonus >> YesMichael Hodgson << Playmaker >> Rak PrasertchaiIsak Demian << Tightly marked >> Michael HodgsonMichael Hodgson << Captain >> Isak Demian

I had a skill deficit, prepped his formation despite it having been used only 2/3 of his last games, marked his playmaker,

used my highest form, intelligent midfielder as playmaker (who put in the best midfield performance), beat him on bothoffence + defence, used a good formation + playing style for my team (my best in the situation available) and played theref correctly.

Sounds pretty good to me, but if I have missed an underlying error please state it.. I've done worse in league games andmade bigger jumps in rank.. the only logical conclusion in my eyes is that cup games earn you less in manager points.




Svara


There could be other reasons why you didn't jump much.I've never calculated manager points, but t's not so easy to increase manager points, if there are few cup matches thenit's not many managers that decrease their ranking. Easier if the whole league has matches.

Another reason why people think i t's more random in cup games is that every match is important and therefor conspiuious. Some tactics can overcome large differnces in strenght.

Surely it is the opposite? When you are playing in the final rounds of the cup, there are less teams playing and thus lessteams earning tactical points which would indicate more ease of a rank jump? Due to a larger number of teams remainingstatic as a result of not playing a match...






Svara

Ithink it easy also to loose points. In final rounds there are very few that can loose points.

Take me for example. I was ranked no1, I dropped Ballbreakers and lost position, but after a short while I was no1again ...without a team.

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1 2 3 4 5FörfattareMeddelandeBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Svar till: franzieSkrivet: 2009-12-22 21:56:38Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 22:00:25Citera

Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: franzieIthink it easy also to loose points. In final rounds there are very few that can loose points.

Take me for example. I was ranked no1, I dropped Ballbreakers and lost position, but after a short while I was no1again ...without a team.

I can explain that:

Back then, you and Kcnr1 were very close in regard to tactical points. The week before you hit number one with no team(20th June 2009) you and Kevin both lost 3 games off your cycle.

The difference?

You had two losses come off your cycle, most crucially - a league game, and then you also lost an XCL game. Kevin had3 wins come off his cycle, which is a huge chunk to lose. You had no team, so you lost less points than him, but gainednone, which put you ahead of him, but not by much.

He lost big points that week.

Then comes June 20th. You have no team, so you can not gain any points, Kevin plays on the 22nd in the cup and wins4-0, but this is not enough to make up the deficit, (because cup games are weighted lower?), but then Kevin plays aleague game on the 26th, he draws 0-0, but gains positive points. Now you both lost 3 games in this week off your cycleas well, but unlike Kevin, you are not playing games throughout the week in an attempt to replace the ones you have lostas you have no team, so therefore you suffer a huge drop in ranking.

The final result is that come the 27th, Kevin has leapfrogged you in points and therefore you lost your number 1 status.That is the reason you were number 1 without a team, and consequently why you dropped back to number 2.



Svar till: BejjitaSkrivet: 2009-12-22 22:05:45Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 22:08:33Citera



Svara

And if you count 6 month back from your cup match?Couldn't be that you not earned points, but other managers bad matches disappeared?


Bejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Svar till: franzieSkrivet: 2009-12-22 22:08:13Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 22:09:37Citera

Svara

A fair point, I lose a game off my cycle the same day, it was a pretty poor home draw however:

http://new.xperteleven.com/gameDetails.aspx?GameID=6490566&dh=1

EDIT - And look at the ratings they put out, horrific! They must have been weaker.


Flytta till överst på sidanDuffster [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Användaren är ligaboss för ligan] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!][Duffster]Blev medlem:2006-09-11


Svara

I don't think i'd have ever caught you [Franzie] or Motorroger to get to N#1 if cup & XCL matches were weighted similar tothe domestic game points, both of you had over 60 games in your cycle at the time, I think if they were weighted the samethere could be no realistic way of catching up on skillbars which at the time was 19bars..

I think it's weighted less so as the stronger teams don't totally run away rankings & still leave some scope for balance for the general user, could be wrong.. but would be suprised if you can earn as much from cup as a regular home leaguegame.






Svara


And if you count 6 month back from your cup match?Couldn't be that you not earned points, but other managers bad matches disappeared?

I was ranked 16th on 19/9/09 (closest stat I have)... How many top 16 managers do you think earn negative tactical pointsin their matches? Barely any if not none in my opinion.. Even when I lose matches I still earn positive points.. so it will stilllower my rank when I lose them off my cycle.. I imagine all other managers in top 20 or so are similar.



2005-05-25

Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-12-22 22:36:55Citera

Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster I don't think i'd have ever caught you [Franzie] or Motorroger to get to N#1 if cup & XCL matches were weighted similar tothe domestic game points, both of you had over 60 games in your cycle at the time, I think if they were weighted the samethere could be no realistic way of catching up on skillbars which at the time was 19bars..

I think it's weighted less so as the stronger teams don't totally run away rankings & still leave some scope for balance for the general user, could be wrong.. but would be suprised if you can earn as much from cup as a regular home leaguegame.

I'm in very deep water now, discussing ranking points that I never have been thinking much about.But I have hard to think what Iwe should have make differences to cup matches.Have you read Iwes statement about ranking points? Was it maybe sent to official news?

Then we have managers like Angst and others, those who earned much points on only league and cup. How they earnedmuch points if cup didn't?



Svara

Well, Alex had a lot of games in his cycle (not a huge amount) but the reason that he was ranked so high is because hewas so consistently good with countering his opponents.

Remember that every player is entitled to a league game though, so everybody will get what.. 28 games in their cycle no



matter what assuming they don't move teams.. Lets just use some ballpark figures to illustrate the effect of weighting(purely hypothetical).

League = x1 tactical points x 28 = 28Cup = x0.7 x (say 14 cup games over two seasons) = 9.8XCL = x0.5 x 6 = 3.

Total tactical points = 40.8.

This is assuming you earned one point per tactical game, but if you were to earn big points in each match then you couldcompensate for playing less games than other managers.. as every manager is entitled to the max points earned from 28league games.


Flytta till överst på sidangildar [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!][gildar]



Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster I don't think i'd have ever caught you [Franzie] or Motorroger to get to N#1 if cup & XCL matches were weighted similar tothe domestic game points, both of you had over 60 games in your cycle at the time, I think if they were weighted the samethere could be no realistic way of catching up on skillbars which at the time was 19bars..

FWIW, I won only 6 of the 20 league and XCL games A-chrome played last season, but I won a lot of cup games(reached the final). Somehow I made it to 2nd with this track record, so the cup must count for something.

If you have a top division team you'll face lower skilled teams during most of the cup (which give you less points), and I'mpretty sure that neutral games count as home games for ranking purposes, but other than that I'm not sure the cup gamesare really weighed differently.

But, like Franzie, I've never counted points per game myself so I could be wrong here.

~~ Team Sweden ~~ just nu *näst* bäst i världen! :)

Flytta till överst på sidanBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan]

[Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2009-12-22 23:08:29Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 23:09:18Citera

Svara



But Gildar you played something like 35 games from the beginning of July to October, that is more games in a half cyclethan some amateurs manage to get through in an entire cycle! I would attribute your brilliant performance in the first half of your current cycle as the reason you are 2nd in the world as opposed to the second half.. but of course it is natural thatwith all these cup wins come more games, so it is also natural that with massive cup runs you will reach a higher ranking.



Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2009-12-22 23:14:12Citera

Svara

Like I said, I've never seen this confirmed just more assumed that it's not as great for points, but then I thought there wasa random element too which isn't the case so it wouldn't suprise that it's no different.

But.. if you're playing at home v another team also recorded at home then how would that balance with the engine asreading it as a home v away game in terms of points given? i'd be inclined to think the result value is lower for cup gamesbut perhaps it isn't is complex is that & just weighted the same.

Likewise with you two, i've never counted either, my basic maths doesn't stretch that far.




Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: gildar so the cup must count for something.

.

Just to add - the cup of course counts for a large part of the ranking when you're reaching the top end because without ityou can easy slip away after each matchday, it gives consistency to the rank, but you can still reach top 100 easy with saya 5th round exit/32 game cycle, which to me suggests the league games are the most important in terms of points scored.

You reached the XCL final last season + the cup final this season, you must have around 50+ games in your cycle quiteeasy, hence N#2.




Flytta till överst på sidanDuffster [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Användaren är ligaboss för ligan] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!]

[Duffster]Blev medlem:2006-09-11

Svar till: Duffster Skrivet: 2009-12-22 23:35:17Uppdaterat: 2009-12-22 23:48:14Citera

Svara

I count about 64 games in your cyle Gildar? give or take.

If you were gaining as many points from say a home league match from those cup matches, don't you think your skillbarswould be through the roof? I reckon there must be some give here in the points awarded to balance i t.

[EDIT] But when I asked iwe about the random factor weeks ago, he did say the engine is no different with cup matches,so that quote is lurking with me thinking that the engine also wouldn't be different when awarding manager points, if that'sthe case then it's more down to the manager not being tactically on the ball over the entire cycle + team strength.

Strange cup times.


Flytta till överst på sidangildar [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!][gildar]Blev medlem:2004-02-08


Svara

Come to think of it, I won the cup season 21 (~6-9 months ago) so i t's twelve cup games being replaced by twelve cupgames. I won the league too in season 21, which make my increased ranking (from 15 to 17 bars) even more strange.

Winning the league and winning the cup was obviously worth two bars less than losing the cup final, ending sixth in theleague and winning a single XCL game.






Svara

Yeah but if your tactics are better in the period I described then it is more than possible.

I speak to the Swedish manager Semme_88 a lot.. yesterday we were talking about the tactical cycle, he has about 41games in his cycle give or take one. And I recall him having a win percentage of 80%, which is amazing!

But his rank is only just inside the top 1000, obviously his tactics are not as good as his win percentage suggests, sodespite his massive winning streaks and stuff, he is lower than the results indicate..


Flytta till överst på sidanDuffster [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Användaren är ligaboss för ligan] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!]

[Duffster]Blev medlem:2006-09-11


Svara

When i earned my best weighted points it was with Zeppelin who were weaker than atleast 4 of the top teams in the DLwhen I reached it & on par with those in D1 when playing there, when I had 6 games in the XCL i t was against nobego &another strong Swedish team, but my results/tactics were great over this 6months [50 games] so perhaps it is the sameweight on cup matches, but the strength is the key weight + of course tactics?

I have a real strong team now & some lacklustre tactics - so to maximise this strength to = rank i'd need great tacticsconsistently & expected results.


Flytta till överst på sidangildar [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Är med i Hall Of Fame!][gildar]Blev medlem:

2004-02-08


Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaYeah but if your tactics are better in the period I described then it is more than possible.



Yeah, that would be the most logical reason. But it still feels strange since I was very low on motivation for much of thelast season and did very quick-and-dirty tactics for many games, sometimes without even bothering to check theopponent.

Maybe the key to ranking success is "Don't think too much"




Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster When i earned my best weighted points it was with Zeppelin who were weaker than atleast 4 of the top teams in the DLwhen I reached it & on par with those in D1 when playing there, when I had 6 games in the XCL i t was against nobego &another strong Swedish team

The difference between a weak team beating a strong, and a strong team beating a week is at least two points. If you play50 games in six months, this adds upp to a significant amount.




Svara

Aye that would make sense on overturning the 15 or so games on Franzie & Motorroger who had extremley strong teams& therefore earning less weighted points for beating the weaker team, which i'm getting just now with current team.

Ursprungligen postat av: gildar

Maybe the key to ranking success is "Don't think too much"

You mean doing a Mistra!!




Flytta till överst på sidanBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]



Svara

Makes big sense indeed, same reason I rarely top best coach list in Xpert Series and why I always fly high in ChaosCartel.


Flytta till överst på sidanColinzink [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Colinzink]Blev medlem:2008-01-18


Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster but the strength is the key weight + of course tactics?

Interesting theory, and would explain a lot in regards to why I never seem to get many points for early cup matches.







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REQUIEM FOR A DREAMGildar´s C7Club 24 Nästa match:Nac Mac Fe... (b)2011-10-17 15:30



Club 24

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Club 24Forumtyp:

1 2 3 4 5FörfattareMeddelandeColinzink [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Colinzink]Blev medlem:2008-01-18


Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Bejjita

Makes big sense indeed, same reason I rarely top best coach list in Xpert Series and why I always fly high in ChaosCartel.

haha, sounds like I have a new excuse then for not being the top manager there...






Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Colinzink

haha, sounds like I have a new excuse then for not being the top manager there...

I am second in Xpert Series mind you.. not 11th.




Svara

lol, would u like a cookie? Xpert Series isn't the Chaos Cartel...


Flytta till överst på sidanMistra [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][Mistra]Blev medlem:2007-08-17


Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster

You mean doing a Mistra!!



shame i was not in XCL, my name would have been in HOF by now actually, i could use some support, i've seen the lightand i'm on the right path now, even started to catch up on old threads (few hundreds of them), thus seeing this blatantprovocation that i would have probably missed otherwise!

Flytta till överst på sidanBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan]

[Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05

Svar till: ColinzinkSkrivet: 2009-12-23 02:06:32Uppdaterat: 2009-12-23 02:07:35Citera

Svara

Ursprungligen postat av: Colinzinklol, would u like a cookie? Xpert Series isn't the Chaos Cartel...

Only playing Devils Advocate here of course, but I've been more successful in CC than I have in XS per season.. andthat's with a worse squad.

EDIT - And I'm talking results here, not ranking.




Svara

more cookies for Bejjita!






Svara

How generous, any more cookies and I might not have time for tactics, and if that happens I might slip past 11th..




Svara

in xpert series, you'd have to be pretty shit to drop that low...




Svara

True, I would hate to see how far you drop then.


Flytta till överst på sidanColinzink [Kontakta författare inom ligan]

[Användaren är VIP-medlem][Colinzink]Blev medlem:2008-01-18


Svara



haha, ok I will stop since you are incessant on comparing apples and watermelons. My league has something like 30+ top1000 managers, if I'm 11th on that list, which I don't even know because I could care less, then I'm cool with that givenwho is probably ahead of me.

Regardless, this wind up between us does nothing for the topic, not to mention it is painful to see you grasping at straws.




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Grasping at straws? Nice, so you have a bigger reputation than me on the site and the end result is you can attract better managers who are already the finished article. Good for you, and yes it is true.




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that wasn't my point, my point is that 11th in my league is still pretty damn good, and comparing the coach lists betweenthe leagues is a futile practice. I see this getting personal, and that wasn't my intention so let's just stop and share anxmas pint.

They took you nightman and you don't belong to them. They locked me in a world of darkness without your sexy hands,

and I miss you nightman...sooo baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!


Svar till: ColinzinkSkrivet: 2009-12-23 03:51:40



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Takes a bigger man to walk away, kudos!




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cheers, it is wide too!




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I'm positive that the cup games carry less manager points, in this cup game

http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1188117&dh=1

I won 3-0 on neutral and had 7 chances to their 0. Tactics weren't brilliant but considering you gain points for a win andmore chances I thought I might at least get a few and I got no points. Absolutely none. I never had any games come off my cycle either. So it's either one of two things.

1: There is a weighting issue so where I'd win 3 manager points for the win it's put to 1 point and bad tactical decisionswiped that. or

2: There is a handicap in the cup for stronger teams, maybe start the game on -4 or something. Which sounds ridiculousbut to have 0 manager points for a win and 7-0 on chances is ridiculous.





Svar till: Saint_AshSkrivet: 2009-12-23 12:19:37Citera

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Okay so we found out not long ago that there is deffo no random element in cups, now heres another piece to the cup jigsaw.

Iwe just got back to me...

With regards to cup matches on neutral grounds are they slighty less weighted than a domestic league match in terms of manager points?

Ursprungligen postat av: iwe

No. They are equal to any other competitive match./Iwe

So the main factor would be team strength and this being why stronger teams don't gain as many points in the cup due togulf in skill?

Ursprungligen postat av: iweYes/Iwe




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So there's a team strength weighting that you don't get in the leagues then? So if you're stronger you get less points for your tactical decisions or just start on a non level playing field points wise?

Interesting shit.

Mail him

"JUST FUCKING TELL US WHAT HAPPENS!!"





Marcone [Kontakta författare inom ligan]Blev medlem:2006-09-05

Svar till: Saint_AshSkrivet: 2009-12-23 12:25:48Citera

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thought i'd add my 2 cents, probably useless but you never know

----------------------

In 2nd leg cup matches the result from the 1st leg is taken into account.

/Iwe

>Marcone, 2009-12-07: hi iwe, quick question on the official cup matches.

i believe you've mentioned that in league games when you're losing going into the last portion of the game your playingstyle automatically becomes offensive as your team chases the game.

does this happen to a greater extent in cup games or is the dynamic exactly the same as for league games?

thanks

marcone


Svar till: MarconeSkrivet: 2009-12-23 12:29:23Citera

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That is interesting Marcone, cheers. So the teams will attack more towards the end of the 2nd leg and not the first.

What is it with everyone emailing the top dog aswell? When I've had questions I've had Seastream reply with a nonanswer as I've gone the proper channels and done support. Is Iwe getting more relaxed in his old age?


Flytta till överst på sidanBejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:



2008-06-05


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Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster Okay so we found out not long ago that there is deffo no random element in cups, now heres another piece to the cup

jigsaw.

Iwe just got back to me...

With regards to cup matches on neutral grounds are they slighty less weighted than a domestic league match in terms of manager points?

So the main factor would be team strength and this being why stronger teams don't gain as many points in the cup due togulf in skill?

Ultimate way to whore the cup then is to win as the underdog. I wonder if XCL is equally weighted too..

If Iwe says it's so then it must be I guess..

Where is GRASSBANDITS when we need him, he must have a large backlog of point gains from league and cup matchesby now to show.





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Good stuff, Duff. That helps explain it I think.


Flytta till överst på sidanGRASSBANDITS [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][GRASSBANDITS]Blev medlem:

2007-11-15


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Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaWhere is GRASSBANDITS when we need him, he must have a large backlog of point gains from league and cup matchesby now to show.



Unfortunately all bar the last couple of my cup games last season fell on a day when I also lost a game from 6 monthsprevious when I wasn't counting so much - but the previous seasons cup points are below FWIW...

W1-0 = 2 points; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1060559&dh=1W4-1 = 4 points; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1074662&dh=1W4-1 = 10 points; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1081196&dh=1

W4-1 = 5 points; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1087379&dh=1W6-5AET = 9 points; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1090915&dh=1L0-3 = 1 point; http://www.xperteleven.com/cupGameDetails.aspx?GameID=1097023&dh=1

The tactics for the 10 point game are below. My expectation would be 10 points from identical tactics and result in a homeleague game and 16 points in an away league game playing teams of similar strength (assuming I have at least twoplayers benefiting from my through plays).

4-4-2 << Formation >> 3-5-2Normal << Playing style >> OffensiveVaried << Offence >> Through playsNormal << Defence >> NormalNo << Prepared >> YesNormal << Aggression >> NormalNo << Long balls >> NoYes << Pressure >> NoYes << Offside traps >> No

Yes << Cheating >> YesYes << Win bonus >> YesElof Hedin << Playmaker >> Antonino PagliariniNone << Tightly marked >> Elof HedinDaley Holcroft << Captain >> Antonino Pagliarini

Every time I think we have hit the bottom, the ground opens up again and we fall a bit more.


Svar till: GRASSBANDITSSkrivet: 2009-12-23 19:52:43Citera

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I lol'ed at them using offsides with a 2/1.

Thanks GB.


Flytta till överst på sidanNMCL [Kontakta författare inom ligan]Blev medlem:2007-09-19




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Great topic opened my eyes, Duffster with the response from Iwe.

Nice data from GB as well,10 points from a cup game (given the oppositions poor rating) is a lot isnt it? may just provethat the ranking points for cup arent that weighted! Which disappoints me given my current run and subsequent rank

Flytta till överst på sidanSuperSprint [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][SuperSprint]Blev medlem:2006-07-07

Svar till: NMCLSkrivet: 2009-12-23 23:01:58Citera

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Surprised over this discussion really but let's have a look.

Facts:Iwe has said a long time ago that managerpoints take the opponent in consideration when it's calculated.-You get 4-3-2-1 (Away win-HW-AD-HD) manager points from winning against a team with equal strength, called winnigpoints.-And managerpoints from neutral games count as it was a home game.-When I counted skillbars for the early rounds in 2008, the MOTCup-rnd averaged around 12-14 manager points.

Why it seems like it's weighted different is probably based on the early rounds for most of you and could be summed uplike this:-The huge difference in team strength will not give you any tactical points for winning.-You'll be penalized for not playing with your best possible lineup since most of you use youths/backups in the earlyrounds.-You're a good coach often playing against a weak coach which means that your opponent is likely to do obviousmistakes, thus you will not gain as much tactical points as you could if he played good tactics.

Make sense to me but I could be wrong. What do you guys think?

If I act like stupid, it's just because I want you to understand me.


Svar till: SuperSprintSkrivet: 2009-12-23 23:10:27Citera

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that's my interpretation of it as well, Sprint.





Svar till: SuperSprintSkrivet: 2009-12-23 23:14:54

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I agree with you.

Here is some of Iwes statements on manager points I told about earlier:http://www.xperteleven.com/viewGlobalMessageN.aspx?threadID=1834568&forumid=10&read=1

There you can see that it's not easy for even managers like nobego to get much points, even if he thought he had goodtactics.

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[gildar]Blev medlem:2004-02-08


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Ursprungligen postat av: Duffster Okay so we found out not long ago that there is deffo no random element in cups, now heres another piece to the cup

jigsaw.

You should just have believed in me in the first place... on both accounts

Ursprungligen postat av: Saint_AshThat is interesting Marcone, cheers. So the teams will attack more towards the end of the 2nd leg and not the first.

No. The first leg will be same as any game (ie more attacking when behind). In the second leg the total score over bothlegs will be considered. If you won the first leg with 2-0 and are behind with one goal in the second, your players won't gooffensive trying to get an equalizer but instead play more defensive since you're still winning on aggregate.



Bejjita [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Bejjita]Blev medlem:2008-06-05


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Are you sure you are not Iwe's nephew Gildar?




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Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaAre you sure you are not Iwe's nephew Gildar?

Rumour has it I'm even his second account. I don't believe in rumours though!




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Yeah that can't be true, you're obviously his third account following his second, Wayne.



Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2009-12-24 01:52:40



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so if it isn't a rumor, it must me true then innit!




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Ursprungligen postat av: Colinzinkso if it isn't a rumor, it must me true then innit!

Sorry, I'm not allowed to comment on that!




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ha, that's a yes!





2005-05-25


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Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaAre you sure you are not Iwe's nephew Gildar?

Sometimes I can bet that Gildar know more about the game than Iwe does.


Svar till: gildar Skrivet: 2009-12-24 02:07:33

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Sorry, I'm not allowed to comment on that!

Not really on topic, but have you compiled any more CR data than this, Gildar?

Glidar's CR stats: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pg4_f0ML31K_rYI09uhC3EQ

I have found this to be the best out there, so if you have more, I'd love to see it!




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Yeah, I should probably update that document. I have some recent data that is not included and there is also a major error in the document in that goalkeepers are included together with the outfield players. Goalkeepers have differentincrease/age ratio (at least older ones) and really should be in their own tab.






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ooh, I am excited to see that, take your time of course.




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Bump!!!!




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Ursprungligen postat av: gildar Yeah, I should probably update that document. I have some recent data that is not included and there is also a major error in the document in that goalkeepers are included together with the outfield players. Goalkeepers have differentincrease/age ratio (at least older ones) and really should be in their own tab.

Have you looked more into this, Gildar?





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bump and...

Ursprungligen postat av: Colinzink

Have you looked more into this, Gildar?


Svar till: MistraSkrivet: 2010-07-05 18:17:23Citera

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Gildar is gone.




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Lolz!


Flytta till överst på sidan _angst_ [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem][_angst_]Blev medlem:2006-08-23

Svar till: Bejjita



Skrivet: 2010-07-06 02:13:20Citera

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Ursprungligen postat av: BejjitaGildar is gone.

"I've seen the future baby, it is murder"


Svar till: _angst_ Skrivet: 2010-07-06 19:54:15Citera

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Ursprungligen postat av: _angst_




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B U M P T Y


Flytta till överst på sidanBasilbrush303 [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Basilbrush303]





Svara

Bump

We are all Champions.

We are all Walter Smith.

Flytta till överst på sidanBasilbrush303 [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Basilbrush303]Blev medlem:

2006-02-17

Svar till: Basilbrush303Skrivet: 2011-05-22 00:41:04Citera

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bump*3



Flytta till överst på sidanBasilbrush303 [Kontakta författare inom ligan][Användaren är VIP-medlem] [Ligaassistent][Basilbrush303]Blev medlem:2006-02-17

Svar till: Basilbrush303Skrivet: 2011-09-04 23:31:46Citera

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bump!








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