Peter Lawford Oral History Interview – JFK#1, 02/23/1968 Administrative Information

Creator: Peter Lawford Interviewer: John F. Stewart Date of Interview: February 23, 1968 Place of Interview: Los Angeles, CA Length: 36 pages Biographical Note Peter Lawford (1923-1984) was an actor and the brother-in-law of John F. Kennedy [JFK]. This interview focuses on personal anecdotes about Lawford’s relationships with JFK and the 1960 presidential campaign, among other topics. Access Open Usage Restrictions Copyright of these materials have passed to the United States Government upon the death of the interviewee. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. Copyright The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, United States Code) governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of copyrighted material. Under certain conditions specified in the law, libraries and archives are authorized to furnish a photocopy or other reproduction. One of these specified conditions is that the photocopy or reproduction is not to be “used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research.” If a user makes a request for, or later uses, a photocopy or reproduction for purposes in excesses of “fair use,” that user may be liable for copyright infringement. This institution reserves the right to refuse to accept a copying order if, in its judgment, fulfillment of the order would involve violation of copyright law. The copyright law extends its protection to unpublished works from the moment of creation in a tangible form. Direct your questions concerning copyright to the reference staff. Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation

Peter Lawford, recorded interview by John H. Stewart, February 23, 1968 (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program.

Oral History Interview

Of

Peter Lawford Although a legal agreement was not signed during the lifetime of Peter Lawford, upon his death, ownership of the recording and transcript of his interview for the Oral History Program passed to the John Fitzgerald Kennedy Library. The following terms and conditions apply: 1. The transcript is available for use by researchers. 2. The tape recording shall be made available to those researchers who have access to

the transcript. 3. Copyright to the interview transcript and tape is assigned to the United States

Government. 4. Copies of the transcript and the tape recording may be provided by the Library to

researchers upon request for a fee. 5. Copies of the transcript and tape recording may be deposited in or loaned to

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Peter Lawford– JFK #1

Table of Contents Page Topic 2 Meeting John F. Kennedy [JFK] after World War II 3 JFK’s interest in motion pictures 5 JFK’s career in Congress 7 Conversations about politics with the Kennedys 9 Joseph Kennedy Sr.’s influence on JFK 11 JFK’s 1956 vice presidential bid 14 Discussion about JFK running for president in 1960 15 JFK’s health issues 18 Work during the 1960 campaign 20 Celebrities contributions to the campaign 21 Relationship with JFK after the election 23 JFK’s sense of humor 24 JFK’s ability to relax 26 Visiting JFK in the White House 27 JFK’s close circle of friends 28 Being invited to dinner in the White House while shooting Advise and

Consent 30 JFK inviting the entire cast of Advise and Consent to lunch 31 JFK’s taste in films 32 Organizing the entertainment at the Inaugural Ball 34 Falling ill on the day of the inauguration 35 JFK’s interest in White House visitors

STEWART I

LAWPORDa

STBWAR'la

LAWFORD a

S'l'EWAM'a

,·

/ /

~-

oral History Interview

with

PB'l'ER LAWFORD

February 23, 1968 Loa Ang•lea, California

f' By Johnfi Stewllrt

For the John F. Kennedy Library

Why don't we begin by my asking· you if you

recall When yoa first met President Kennedy.

What were lhe circumstances and where?

Do you want to try a level here because I '•

soft, I ,apeat softly, but do you just want to

Yea, it's okay.

You said what? I'a sorry.

I Wlla asking if you recall when you first met

·President Kennedy and what your impressions of

him were?

I

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I

i I , I

I

/

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r

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T LAWFORD a

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It was directly after the war and he was going

in and out of, I guess, R and R Irest and

recuperation] places, you know, as he still had

that, you know, the original injury. And I met

htm at Gary Cooper's house with . . . . It's

funny, I remember at the same time I met

[Charles B.] Chuek Spalding and his wife--they

were both in the service. Chuck and Betty.-

and he aaid, "How do you do,! and •sow do you

do", and he looked terribly, terribly thin, and

very sort of weak. He was very nie•, and it

was • • • It was nondescript there was

nothing. At that point it somebOdy had said,

•That's goint to be the President of the united

States,• you know, I • • . . Because I hadn't

sat and talked with the man r I never even got a

ellanee to.

And then after that through the years, I met

his sister [Mra. Patricia Kennedy Lawford],

I met Pat in • 49. We were

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sort of thrown together here and there~~

different things. I got to know him, but I

didn't really get to know him until after I

was married/Which waa in '54. I shouldn't )

say that, it was probably a couple of years

before that we started having . . .

but ~ot the relationship we finallt wound up

having which was a marve lous one, and one

I'm very, very grateful for. We~ think had

hit it off, because he loved my business.

He love~ anything to do with the arts and with the

motion pictures, an~e was always terribly

interested in my business which never ceased

to amaze meo I mean, more than a passing, mo.~e

than a surface thing, which I think he got frG~

his fatherDbecause his father was involved in ::::;...--

the motion picture,business, as you know~~

I think that's probably where he got it. ~

he used to read Variety like I read variety ~ ~ A

{!./

\,.

,.

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Not the daily Variety but the weekly. And he

knew what was going on.

For instance, one day after he was President,

I wae talking to him on the phone and he said,

"What did •oceans Eleven' do?", which is a picture

that we made, soon after 1960. He said, "How's

it doing?- ~ I sa!AJ·-· "Well, it's doing . • •

It's fir~t ttme around, it's been out two weeks."

He said, 11What about Enqland?" I said, "We

read (aqa1n in Varietr> I read a gross in

some town.• I was not aware of that gross,

ant! ~ aa14. "IJ.'ha~ wae • t •• atrong •• 1 t waa in

Boston.• ror instance, you knowt that kind ot

interest. Bow perhaps he didn't know the

grossesr be was interested 1n that particular

picture because t was involved in it. But he

did have a tremendous grapp of my business 1\.._

especially, which tmpressed ~ which impressed

STEWJ\R'l'r

LAWFORD a

STEWART&

LAWFORBI

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every actor he came in contact with. And the fyJ-1]

same thing applies to painters, or Frost, you

know,pe,ple like that~he just admired.

Well, were you, you weren't married to his

sister but you knew him during the 1952 cam-

paign when he ran for the Senate• Do you re-

call that at all?

Yes, but I was not involved in that campaign .

You know, I didn't work in tha~ ~ J.n

'60 is where 1 did moat of my little contri-

butions in '60

noyou recall a~hing about his attitude toward

his work in~ongreaa er his career in Congress \ -Z H:1"

and then in the Senate, ~t would've been in

the senat•eby the time you got to know him

was he always totally serious about his wor~?

Completely involved at all times and loved itt If

and never, never questioned ~h, I've got11 to ·

~ ~ . go)'and so and so ,'and that /1 ~ot to be t~er~- \'" '·

~L _,..........._ <t;_-yt~'--<- G \

because they're calling}~ !--tbtnk. His tnte.reat

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~ !nother marvelous thing about h~, to depart a -

STEWART a

LAWFORD a

LAWI'ORBa

STEWART a

minute from what you are saying5l\ ~ere's a

projection wf what you're saying. His interest

in everything was just, you know, to watch it

was something incredible . And, of course, they

all have that, the whole family.

It's often been said, for example, that his . '

attitude about his career changed quite

drastically after he was martied. Well, he

was married when you • in '53, '54.

He was married just before me.

So you really didn't know htm before that. ·

~· not well. And I didn't go, I

to the wedding, because I didn't

that well.

wasn't asked

know him

When you first got to know htm well which

~ wouldo've been after 1964, was there always

a general, qood discussion of politics when ~-{

you saw him,for example, ~ the home in

HYannis Port or whereever it was?

">... ·.····

LAWFORD a

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Well, it was constant, you know, even before

I was married. Dinner, Lunch was always taken

up with ~ ~ot only natiDnal but inter-. A1]11-~c.S

national~S5~ !timulating, marvelous ~

dinners and lunches, you know, and/one of the

things I got out of being involved with that

whole scene was it made me--even though before

being involved ...--- ____....,

with th e Kenned~s or with interested in what was happening to

John F . , I was ftft¥i:h9

~· 'fttthe world, as we all should be--but

it bpened up a whole other thing for me, which

I'm also grateful for. And you really sort of

had to get into it to stay alive in that group,

because, you know, they ~ave all the facts I

lA at their fingertips and who~ running for

Congress in that district and so and so and

s~~~hich I, of course, ..)

to know. So you'd listen,

wouldn't be expected , - /

~d.Lut J.t__,( ( (/

pretty soon,A I •ve I

figured out what was happening. But he, you

know, is the kind of man you could at and listen

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STE.WARTa

Li\WFORDc

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to by the hour because he knew not a little

about a lot of things, he knew (aboutSa lot

~ a lot of things, which you don't find.

would he talk about his own personal work

in the Senate issues that he was involved

in, committees that he was wolking on and

things like this?

o~, sure, there were discussions of thing•

that he was particularly interest in and -5"~ -

~~pua~hrough~ hia di•appointmenta

and his vi,toriea. •.ally

alwaya/~preaaed me

But the thing that ~ -r::J_,__

about hill~ extraordinary

awareneaa and marveloua common touch he had --

to just anyon•ZY~A incredible.

STI!.WAH 1 Do you recall any discussions o·f the whole Do.t:!et'~- -1 rz-]

business of Senator ~U'{fii~ McC~rthy in

the early 1950'a.

LAWFORD 1 . No.

STIKAR!a This, of co~rae, was an extreme6y controversial

• 1•

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thing becaua• of, for one thing, because of

the relationships between Ambassador [Joseph

P.] Kennedy an~ Senator McCarthy.

LAWFORD• Yea. I myaelf was not a McCarthy fan at all:

and, as I think, probably our first misUdder-

standing I had with my wife was over that.

ST~I Really?

LAWFOIU>t And •o I let it 4rop there, you know, oool it,

8'1'SAR'l1

because, you know, she, because of the situa-

tion had a oertaiD allegian<M whiCh waa Mr

busineaa and it was fine, hll it waan • t my

thtnllingt) ~t I never tot into it with hill.

Did you gst any impresaiou~ theae day~ 1\

say in 1954-55 of the influence of Ambassador

X.nnedy on the political thinking of President

Kennedy?

LAWFOI.Da On his thinking?

ST~• on his general attitude about political

problems.

LAWFORD a

·I

STEWART a

LAWFORD a

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1...,-

0h, I think, ~ Mr. Kannedy • • knowledge

and years of experience, you know, was worth

its weight in gold to him, but I know they

disagreed on certain things. And I don't

think anybody ever made up John Kennedy's

mind for htm. I don't think anybody swayed

h~/-including his father. He might have,

I think he took What he wanted and then it

sifted it, you know, evaluated/ and then did

what he w~d to do with it. But that was

another thing about him, the fantastic grasp

he had for everything~ ~·d just aut right

~tough it. x•ve eeen .ten ptople in a room , "Well,

aaying/I think this and this and this "and he •

We all know this --- · about him. I saw it

happen a few time•. It •·• a<:arey the way he'd

just go right to it. Zip.

. ..

can you recall any serious disagreements between

his father and be ~ver d6finite qQestions?

lio. ~ut I know there were \ .

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different roads taken, but I don't ~eally · want

to get into that.

STEWART• Even for historians of the future? lJ

LAW!'ORDa They'll find~out from someone elae. You see,

I'm in a funny spot that, you know, me talking.

STEKART1 I realize.

LAWPORDa It'• difficult because even though I'm divorced, a till

I • av'ao fond of all of them. Altd I • :;r•in-wasb6d by t .heat becauae • • • I had adoration

for hia, ao queation about that[;) ~t it' • a

fantastic family ao tba~ X •a juat throwi:nt

that in ~auae it makea it a little difficult

foJ: ae, beoau•• my all4t9ial'lM ie atill with ~.

ITBHARra Alright. Well let me ask you the~n 1956 of )

LAWFORD a

courae he made a try for the vice presidency.

Were you at the convention in Chicago? Do you

recall that at all? Yea,

Ho I waan•t. ¢ertainly l i (l watahed it . -

watching it/on talevia1~n,

recall it, I waa

that close, cloae

race. l remember at the t~~wondering~ xfve /

\

STiMAR'l'a

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never asked the question which ia interesting;\

why he really went for that. And I remember

being sad that he lost it but at the aame time

9lad beaauae I, everybody could aee what waa

going on, what would happen.

~ Dt you recall him being ~ u.paet Jabout it,

about loaint7

LAWFORDa Be waa u.pset but he vas one of tboae marveloua

people who oould lltarally ahru9 it off, you

know. But· he waa OM of ~ oritinal •aetter Jditd of

luck next tille•/attitude, which was marveloua

Be wau • t •• upMt u 1 tboupt be ai.ght lM 0

~ perhapa in his mind vas 1960, because1 M

made, as you know, beoaM a national fiture

froa that _!OftYention. A lot of people, million• -of people didn't know who 3aok J(ennedy was

until he emer ged there. All4 1 remember one funny

thing. Xt was right after that he oame out here

with [Theodore c.) Teddy Soreue. I went to _.,

I

S'l'EWA.Rtt I

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pick him up at the airport. And it was

probably two weeki~ to three weeks afterward

and qoin9 through the airport with the bags

and stuff, o6ouple of people said, "That•a

him. There he ia. " And somebody else

s~, 11'rhat •a ~atahisname, you know, the

fellow at the Convention.", you know, that

kind of thing. So I ~brew a joke at him,

1 said, "That•• alllPU need, one television

show, and you're bigger than I am jn the ~c_.

Beoauae before they'·d recognize me because· i.,..~- c._

they•d seen me 'picture, but they didn't

know Who h6 was. And I aaid, "Thia ha• got

to at~ •, . you know, we had those sort of

jokea.

He made a few appea~anoea during the 1956

campa~~ out here, didn't he, for Adlai

Stevenson. Do you recall these at all.

Yea. 'there was one·, I think, at a betel down

town-I 've forgot%. name of that. Hie •ater

1-

. , ·- • • • • - ·• " 'I , • • ' I "· ' '~•

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used to go on a lot of those lectures. And as

I say, I didn't really get into it until '59

and '60. 1\nd in '60~~n~e;; /Bobby ( 1..- --·-

gave me the job of trying to coordinate talent

for shows and thinqs for different cities .~--

I was supposed to only. handle the western states

and it got to be national. I lovad every

minute of it. I nevex worked ao hard, but it

waa 900d.

STl!MAR'la Before we get into that, let me juat ask you

When, if you recall, wn.n it became apparent

to you tbat he WB;8 90in9 to I"Wl in 1960. Waa

the di•ouaaion of it from '56 Oft or •••

'56 on.

~~ Waa there ever any queation? When waa it fint

in your mind that he waa CJOing to make a fun 41

forfi .~~

S'.rEWAM't

'57Ain *57 • .)

It was openly talked about that he had made

-,: up hia mind, that • a()!' Ul!D...JI&..atliJia:...

f ./Itt 'f 4/r;

\ I

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LAWFORDa Oh yes/

STEWART a There • • no doubt about that.

LAWFORD a '57. 1 may be wrong, maybe the end of '57, •sa

eometime around then.

STEKAR!a Wae there ever any diaeusaion in this period

that he coul&l't .,~Jit or that he might

have to dl:op out,o.r were they alwaya com-

pletely opt~iatic about the dbanoea?

LAWFORDa No, compl$tely optimiatic about the c:hano••t9

even the catho1lo thiftt rully 4i4A • t botMr --them. X meaa, 1 t waa a oODOern; ))ut 1. t

didn•t k•ep them ~P at aight. Ilia ualth,

you aow~ that could have Met. hill t•t out of

it, that opacation •

. . TJIIAR'T. .. had tll• II • •

LAWJIOJU)a • • • the eeoond c:peration, you ltftow, whi.Gh wae-

' LAWlQRl)t Yea, S.t waa, I think, the hiillning of • ss, loraew'b.ere ---·· ..

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then, that could've, you know, put him out of

everything, because he waa really ill with that

back, but be foutht hi• way throuvh that, and,

a a you know, wrote the book while he waa lying

on hi• back.

STBWAR!• ~· health after that waa never a question?

LAWFORD• 'J.'bere waa a queation in the minds of bia can

opponent• ti Because X/ remember at the cam-8 ··r:;-L··· '" B. ~

paien in the firat week ; ,.,ohntJOn • • people -;\

-11---L.t. ~ 'T £:rG>rl·""J ~=-'/\. . remamber they vot up and .. ,t!, -withdraw

I'/JI· I I- (ij because of ~ diaeue. • JCiD So

it was a conaern with them, but never with

him or the fully, bec:auH he had that kind

of guts, as they all do. And tbe man bad

novac:aine probably twic:e a day in his bac:k

whic:h probably ha• been told to you.

STSNAaTa Waa ther e every any talk of the vice presidency

in 1960?

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LAWFORDa About Johnson?

IT~• &o, about him aoeeptinq the vioe pre•idency

if he couldn't •••

LAWFORD I lfo, I never heard any of that.

What part did you have • • •

LAWFORD a You •ee, don•t forget, that I lived out here,

you know, : and a lot of that talk, most of that

talk was back east, and I waan•t part of it.

~r I'm •ur • ; Pat would know a lot more about

those thtngs.

ftTEWARTa What part, if at all, did you have in the

LAWFORD a

STBWART1

California sit~ation or were you at all in-

volved in talifornia politiae at the t~?

There was a coneiderable struggle and a con-

siderable contusion over What [Edmund G.] Pat

Brown waa 90in9 to do • • •

Ob, I know.

• • • and the organization of tlle deleqation:,

and so forth. ~id yot.t have any part at all /

/ . '

in that: wbol,r' thing? ' ../

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LAWFORD• No, Pmt did because aha was a delegate, Pat

)rown made her a delegate.

STEWARra Were you at the Convention in 1960?

:r.&~a Oh yea.

S'l.'E.WAR'l'a tJhatwre you doing?

LAWl"'RDa I waa just watching and helping and if I waa

told to do something, I'd to it, you know.

carry this here, take that there. And or­

vanizing the entertainment, »l~in9. But

notbint, you he, my part waa not a vital

part at all. So that's why 1 donJt think

historian• are going to get too much out of

what I have to eay f} I •a eure they will from

other people ..

S't!HAR!'a Al:tight. As far •• the oampaign 1• concerned

then you were heavily involved in organizing

entertainment au various functions.

LAWFORD a In my field. I was never sent to get Congressman

so and ~o to swing over to so and ~· you know Q

. '

, .... ~··'' " ······~~-~ ·;· · ·- ··· ·· · ·

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I was not, and I don•t think probably I'm

equipped for that because I'm not, I like

politiaa but 1•m not politaally minded. 1

said to him once a couple of years after the

incident with the Addison's disease, I eaid,

"Mr. President, that's one reason why 1

really couldn't vet involved in your game at

any level because of that kind of hypocrisy.•

I said, .. Bow aan you look that man in the eye, y\L. ~

or CoMly o.-~ ~. AAd be aaid, "fhat ·• I '

it. I'• •~ yr,u work for producer• you don • t

like.• I aald, ~me, tbat•a a littl• bit

diffarat. It • • not stabbing a UD lik• that. •

But he jut • • •

STJ!MAMt Well, what baaically die! your 'WOrk conai•t of

daring- the 4apaip? You •id you were or9anizin9 t :: ,{: •

the. • • •

LAWF08Da Yea, we didO _voab.)~ was Mnding people out, I

waa coordinatiag ia 'Ahat I w.a doing& mid ~'* --peari.Dg; MCin9, coordinatd.nt.-1 ~t waa my , \ I I

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• • T • · "• ' "• ' - · '- • -. ' • · - ' ·-·· · • • · ·: · • ._..I' '••' • • ·• .• • . ~ • • . •' • " .-T"': ' ~ (""•l'>o. ~ , .. r ,...U "'.), -·~··~ · ., •.• 1'.1'" ', ••' T" ' l._ ~f""' "' "'.!t ~• ,-l•I' .. ...,... ....... ~~.,., ... 'P~!'1"'\"'"'"',!'-~r"':

I -20-

functionD~~m New York to here, you know,

they'd aall and they'd say, ~· need some-

body." And wherever he went, naturally, we'd

try to get ~ the bi!Jgest names we

could. >fL. WCV"' ~ ~2 STEWAl\'1' a Who were some of the IOIJVie people who you

STBWAM't

_/

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~~ piekedfi made eignific~t o~ntttbutiona in the

1960 campaign?

tt. unl•• t»r were •pl;tl)licana, they all \

worked for hJA, all the \op people. And \. . .

Blla J'itzgerald,; Samaay DU'i.__, DeaD [Hartin}. '

You ean 90 em ~4! on. .. acyraa Loy, Shell-r

Wiater•. Rea~r tbe creaa of ou#-+- buainea• '_ I \

GUI8 out for blll~ ~4 'it ~:eallly ,.e•t hard . . '

to get anybody to .vo.,k, . all you had ~ do waa ..

p1ok up the ph~p,.

~ . i _ ... .. \ .

' ''· . '

~ .

X. f they weren' t bu-.y, they' •

. --·· -. ...

' li£;~ =:-~; :=··

LAWl"ORDc

STEWARTz

LAWFORDt

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your relationships with him change considerably

after he became Presi~ent?

I really am not, I don't think, equipped to

describe this properlya What happens to a

relationship as close as we were and suddenly

it's~. President:. There's an intangible

though which is very hard to put down, but there's

suddenly--not aa if somebody put a wall there--but

there is just juddenll' it'• not "Hey, Jaek," it'•

Mr. . . . You know, you call him Jack like if

you had been in the shower or something like that,

but I found myself doing it all the time.

Really?

A lot of the time and got used to it, but the

initial thing was a shock. But as far as a

change between us, none at all. He didn't change.

I probably changed in deference, whatever you

want to call it, before the offieepi became

probably etilted in the first few months. But he

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didn't, you know, he waa like a kid with a

~reat big marvelous new toy. Oh, he just

wallowed in it, he lov d it ao~ery ;..;

aspect. I nid,to him one day • • • ~

bi9qest thrill he used to fiVe me once tn

a While he'd 1ay, ~ere are you ~oing?• · I'd

say, "I ;• going ao and eo. • And he'd say,

"Why don't you fly with aae?• Anc!t yota kn'*rl, .~

c~ Ai+~:rc• on•, you lcncow, :t•a o- ,~t ,\ those ,.oplAJ ! don't get ov6r tho•• thi.ftga ·~

:s usT At\4 I •aid to him. OM day •1t\LD9 1D the,fitM two of u up .Co.rvud in hil exeautive littlA .

oabU., anct J tal4, "What doJ~ belt abOut all

tilt•, lCI'. Prea14ent7• AM M aata,ua thie _uf;t..ro~ F{, bI NS . o.rder-,4-Jd.l\ _..,.. vu with , the two of u.,

only t~ .. of u. were aitt1nt ~ere--he aa14,

~-- ~be • d baan in abo\tt aile JROnth~ t. aaict, "Tbe work, the traV"tliAt conditions,

and the Whit• BOuM $#1tchbou4. • [Laughter]

-23-

And he aaid, "It's qoing to be ••rrtble. Can

you imagine ua,• be eaid, "in 1968? We're

goini to have to be waitin9 for our ba9a in the

terminal, • you know, bec:au .. he had a humor

that wouldn't atop, incredibl-e sanae ot humor.

What kind of a eenae of humor? WJaa he ~ &J-1 ·\..A.-­

· ~ 4-to tell atoriea or what kinds of jokea,} a good

storyteller?

LAWPORDa A very vood storyteller and a great put on artist,

a

Qn• of thit world' • tt:elt put on arti•t•. You well, now,

know, he • d aay to aomebody, "' don • t know

about that sdit, you know, what do you think

about that,• you know, it•a • food lookinq ;/ }.

•uit, and he'd drive418omebody orazy. I •m

just uainq that, it could be anything. 1'-

g~ttle hnd fast and quick, and ~11, the

Kennedy wit we don't know about~~ incredible. _)

was he one to rememl:>e, ltmg stories or involved

jokea to tell?

Be oould~- total reoall, that man, total. Oh,

-24-

be~ uaed to do things that•• ecara you, re­

member thing-a that 1 'd forqotten. He was

beautiiul, a beautiful manl.

S'l'EWAia'a What about bia ability to relax andtear himself

LAWFOR.Dr

away froa the Presidency during his three years.

Completely, completely. You know, it's like

somebody aaid at ~ o'clock. Now you know \.

cfl/ ___.forgot. when he was running, but he baa. and --!AtJ

I understand~ Mr. [Franklin D.] Roesevelt bad

that capalJility of el .. pift9 when be wanted to

sleep, having fun when he wanted t.o have fun. rz

Now, he had the aame thing. Some ho~endous

thin9 woulcl be toing on an4 M • d be invol ve4 in

in the evening' or/talking to you or tlhower he

was sitting aext/Ot)at dinner, even though, you

know, be could divorce himself, but never com-

pletely, h••d alway• have his finger on it.

Mind constantly going, constantly. u;n§ ·b~­

'-f4iJ l·c in the middle of something and aay wait a Jl ; :

minute, and ring somebody up and aaJ ~ow What

-25-

,, \ (

about thi~IJ and so and eo. Do you think we 1/

ahoi'd do that? Like after dinner.

STEWAkTt Did you alwaty• have the ~presaion, though,

tha~e could totally relax or that he relaxed

u much as he wanted to?

LAWl'OaDa Alway•o ~ wasn • t a foraed ralaxec! state. Be

·""' '

loved Pal.Dl Sprin9a. ·. He came here, twice, l

think, durint the Administ~:ation. ~~t ' I c:~A 111 '·,

and 1'1orida6) ~· v.ie ju•t ;baPPf u a·~. . ~f ., ·

helad ~ •• ~) a~a~h\ u a deM~t and. ,(_

little f'Olt wht~ti ~i on~~ \tlay.S. about thr•• \ tilae41S I play_,; vi~ .hl,a ~eo· of tilllll•• WIWII

he •• 1're•l .. ~'' . ; , '-~~~ -' i h I I ' . \ ' .- \ .. ' '

X •ve heh4 1\ ,,14· th-• ~ •• tM type of per-. I , \

eon vbo uwaia ~4· ~\kD~ · _la a4vana. ~t hie day wu Jtnt to ' be,:, \ M ~ .. -~one, for

7 \ /\_ example, -~ a veek•nd ju•\t~ t.o ,.t. up and slop

/ \ . aroun~ /the apartment 1 0~ a~tlling like that,

~he laall to have hl.a Whol. ~.\ llay planned, 0.1'

-· a~ t•ut in hu C*n ~iDd what~ waa goint to

l \~~ ' "-.

-'-..

' ,, 'I

'.

-26-

do. Do you a~ ree with that?

LAWFORD• Yea, I would agree with that, beaauae it • a

a family trait. They know pretty much, the

same kind of;.thing, what the day is going to

be, whethe¢ t waa pleasure or ba ineae'l'

They're a well-organized group.

S'l'EWAR'l't Did you eee him frequetntly in the White House

when he w•s there? -~ ~ frequently? /

u~WFOR.Dc Yea, I did, I was very lucky. ~·t~ few

timet! I •• akaed the way it waa fun, you

know, I only went to one of thoae big formal

things-two, three hundred ptople. But when

it waa fun. wee lUte eight or tel\ p4tople on the

second floo~{\When it was J:elaxedl) ~ could've

been anyone•s houae. And he was so proud of

that b()use and what Jaokie h~d done to itf ~

~ and was doing to it. And everytime we'/.d

90 there, he'd just, it didn't matter, he 'd

oome up from the office and he'd say, "God, you

haven't seen the new Cezanne that Jackie bought,"

-27-

and run you downataira to aome oval green ,A ::::- ) - -·

whatever room and ahow it to you(\ and juat ~ )

really it waa a joy for him, a joy to watch.

STEWART a What about hie friends during those white

Bouse yeara. Again, a lot haa been made of

the tact that he presumably ke,!pt most of hia

old friends and picked up ~•ry few new friende,

intimate friends while he waa in the White

House. Would you • • •

•o, X'~ qo along with that. Oh, aure. I

agree with that. I don't know how eloae he

was to [Arthur M.] Sehleainqter before, but

I know 11\Jlybe that f;lrew, that relatiouhip z _ t:f...--v..- , , ! mean,

qrew when he waa in tb•iS"!£-te BOil~. But/as

~ M .'- •• UIMI [Charles P.] Chuek SpalcUnq, and ,~ . {K. L~oyne} Le~ )Billinqa, [Peal m.J Red Pay

all those fellow• who were close to him, you

know the~"\ jhey were always around.

S'l'EWAR'l't Did you have any ,~er involvement with the

Adminiatration or any kind of official or

l

-28-

• eemi-ofticial • • • •

LAWPOR.D 1 Me?

STEWART 1 Yea.

S'l'EWl'R'l't

LAWFORD a

Nothinq at all'l ': .. t ob, God, no. I wa•~ inl~. I •aw a lot

of him and the White House becauae I ~ a

picture there in '61 ealled"Adviae and Consent."

And X was living in at the Sheraton. ~ ~·

were workin 9 in the old senate building. And

it waa funny, it was an objective thingt9 ~very

night Jackie waa out of town, ahe wa. in Glen

ora, I think, and he was by himselfr <iia- Mra. (_/

[Evelyn Ill.) Lincoln would call up about noon •. -~ ,,.

for dinner'" [Laughter] You know, "What are

you doing for dinner, j he ~ants you to ··come to ~ ~. ny; ~A__, · ·~

dinner, of a>urBe,\ And be ~ery fond of /1i)J;t , ~d ~he two of us, there used to be three of

us for dinner !even n~ts in a row.

STEWAR'l't

LAWI'ORDa

STEWART a

IAWPORDa

-29-

to go to bed about half past nine, quarter

to ten with the musie going. And one night,

Milt and I were aitting like thia in the

little aitting room, probably the coziest

part of the house, and we lookae at eaeh

other and Milt said to me, "Do you realize

that we've been here seven nights in a row?"

-~ I aaid, •Are you getting bored with it?"

[Laughter] And he said, •so. But ian't that

fantaatie!• Be aaya. •Look at me, who the hell

•t! am I, and look at you. Two nuta sitting in

~

the White Rouae.•

they just happen and you ~emember them.

Do you recall what hia reaetiona were to that

film?

l don•t know whether he ever eaw it.

Really?

I'm sure he did. I ean't remember whether he,

I don't remember him saying anything about it.

\

"

STEWART a

LAWFORD a

STBWARTt

LAWFORD a

-3o-

Well, it o~e out in '62 or '63.

Yea, '62.

I mean it was • • •

It. was in '62.

instance there of hi~warenesa and he aaid.to

me when he knew X was going to do it, he

said, "When you get all equared away after

the first couple of weeks," he aaid, "would

you like to bring anybody in the company E8 f<,.-··J c)

dinner?•, which X thought waa very nice() ~

then he thot19ht about it aome more, and talked

to ..Tackia about itt? ~is was his volition, ·be­

eauee X would never, you don't know ae at all,

but in ray wi l4est dreams would l ever say, .... .. . ~ .

•would you invite •Adviae and Consent• company

for lunch, or dinner." But he did it. And all \. r)

~, suggest~ ! thought it'd be nice if maybe

Otto Preminger and his wife, who was directing

it, if he had them for a drink. But he asked

everybody in the eaat for lunch. And the two

STmiAR'l'1

T LAWFORD a

STEWART a

~~ -31-. ~

,i (ll'

of them k•r• th;r• for lunehC) Uii ~t wae a

terrifie lunch)~· And you know)who

does that, brother-'n-law or no brother-in-law.

But, thereJ again) is hie interest in the

buaineaa itaelt. ~d he wanted to meet a

aou~le of people in the east and it waa

good, it was really good.

What were hia likes and dislikes as tar as

fit.. we~• eoneerned1 Aqain there have been

storiea that he tired ~iokly of

picturea and couldn't ait through the whole

thinq.

He did, he did. 5o, there are two reasons tor

thata one 'ls hie back and the other, ·if it waan't

ahaping up, he wouldn't waste time with it. Ks'•

/ rather be off reading something~ reading. \.__

But he loved films, and if it was good, he'd

stay. But they better be good.

Do any particular films stand out in your mind that

as ones/he eopec:ially liked?or disliked?

y ! I I

LAWFORD I

LAWFORDt

STEWAM't

LAWFORD a

-32-

I have to wrack trying to

think of the year• but • • • What waa

ahwwinq? Maybe we can come bac:( to that.

~ •uch food/ criticism,

I really can't think.

But he alway• had ;

like when •eeean•• came out, he picked all

the thinqs that were wr6nq with it, just

bang and he wa• ri<jl t. ~

One thing I forgot to aak you about wa • the

InauquratiO!'l. What part did you have in the

ehow that wwa put on at t.he Inaugural Ball.

The qala?

The gala. ~

Well, {~Sinatra, the two of us, Frank -... :~;~·;;;~·t:

worked very hard on it, qot all those - people -:.''"'<_ ·~~::

together, and put that together0 !,_• were in

Washington a couple of weeks before, and it

-·" was a job they said they'd never. • • • _!iii

-~

'-~, the goal was,JI think, a million four -:---

and we got the million four in one night.)

< •

LAWFORDt

STEWART a

-33-

Because, there again, because now he'• President

anybody would eome running, you knowO ~ut the

people who'd worked hard were the people that

we tfot, you know, to perform. And it turned

out 1 t really waa a good show.

'.l'he people who had worked during the campaign?

During the campaign. Blla [Fitzgerald], and

~ouis P~ima. Of eourae, Olivia [de Havilland]

didn't work in the campaign, but • • • Bette

Davie bad worked bard. And, you know, ~o give you those people preference over other

performer• because they ~were there

when they were needed. Luckily, they were all !{· ~·; ·;

top people.

Ia there anything else about the Inau~uration

that really stands out in your mind as far as

his reactions to the whole thing? Was there,

for example, an air of unreality about the

while thing that. • • •

LA\'lP'ORDa

• -34-

For me, it wa• comr-' 1 ete unreality. To

thb day 110111etimea I do that • . t!7 -~,jJ i-t[,_· enormity of it as such, at leaat for me.

But a rather bad thing happened the day of

the Inauguration because I had a rotten

cold, settled in here, and it turned into

plarisy. So the ni;t\t of the qala,) that :::;;;.

we were talking about, it felt like a spear

going through me0 ~I bad a temperature and

all the reat of it. So the man told me, the

doctor told me--remember there vas a terrrble

snow storm--he eaid, "At your own r'iak. • I ~

thought to myself, well, this is purely atutpidA ~ ~

it is now. 11

I 8y{~ to myself, •well, I can see .,.

it again in • 64. I'll aee it in '64." ~ ao

I etayed in bed with all the etuff the man had

given me~ ~ I got up in the afternoon and ,.

went over for the swearing in. (.ADd • came ub

the steps and he was talking to eome, a~ot of

people around. He broke away and came over and

(

STEWART 1

LAWJ'ORDs

STEWARTs

-35-

he said, "Whatbappened to you?" And I told

him. ~he had time to notice that I wasn't · . .

there Which was pretty w~. And he said,

•coma on, you've got to see it.• And he

started to walk me around the first floor,

even though an awtul lot of people were around.

And that's, you know, £l..d ) ~5'he kept

~oing that. There wa• no •well, okay, so

it's the White Boua~tJyou know, not him~

he used to keep a ehtck" on •i•it.ors, how many

~dar fifteen, how many ewer- fifteen, you. kncwt)

[David r.) Dave Power• used to bring that in

every day, really interested in that.

This laated through the whole three years?

Yes • Oh, boy. And ~ they kept growing in

the three years, if you look at those lists of

young people.

Do you recall any major changes in him during

the three years? Did so much of this get to

be old hat after a while or was it always. • • •

' . - " ~ .

LAWFORD a

-36-

No, no. Re never lost that, he never lost

that apirit. Be would've had that now. He'd

have had it it they'd let him run tor twenty

yearat he was that kind of man. •o, no, n?, .......-/ ~

v~ never became jaded that t aaw at atlJ-~ any

aspect ot it, thrived on it. And aa I aaid

before, in that order, work • • •

STEWAR'l'a Well, ve•ve gone over. You aaid 7a30, I think.

. ..... ·

---u\WP'ORD I

Ia there anything else you want to add now?

Bear in your llind that, you lc.nw, hopetully

you're goinq to think thi• ~hinq 0\ter and maybe

we can qo into it in 110re depth.