Paul Murphy, former WCSO Deputy - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted

MURPHY v. PAUL PAUL MURPHY VOL. ICOURT REPORTER: MELONIE RAINEY PROCEEDING DATE: February 12, 2014

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT SEATTLE______________________________________________________

PAUL MURPHY, together )with his marital community, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) vs. ) NO. CV13 727 JCC )WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON, a )government entity; WHATCOM )COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT; )WILLIAM J. ELFO, together with)his marital community, ) ) Defendants. )______________________________________________________

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF PAUL R. MURPHY

______________________________________________________

DATE TAKEN: FEBRUARY 12, 2014

REPORTED BY: MELONIE RAINEY, CCR, RPR

CORPOLONGO & ASSOCIATES REPORTING & REAL-TIME SPECIALISTS 114 West Magnolia, Suite 429 Bellingham, Washington 98225 1(360) 671-6298 1(800) 272-0719


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1 APPEARANCES

2

3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF:

4 EMILY BESCHEN The Law Offices of Robert D. Butler

5 103 East Holly Street Suite 512

6 Bellingham, Washington 98225 360.734.7975

7 [email protected]

8 FOR THE DEFENDANTS:

9 W. DALE KAMERRER

10 Law, Lyman, Daniel, Kamerrer & Bogdanovich

11 2674 RW Johnson Boulevard Southwest Tumwater, Washington 98512

12 360.754.3480 [email protected]

13 ELIZABETH L. GALLERY

14 Whatcom County Prosecutor's Office 311 Grand Avenue

15 Suite 201 Bellingham, Washington 98225

16 360.676.6784 [email protected]

17

18 ALSO PRESENT:

19 SUSAN LOOKER BILL ELFO

20 RICHARD SCOTT

21 Legal Videographer Premier Realtime

22

23

24

25


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1 EXAMINATION INDEX

2

3 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO.

4Mr. Kamerrer 06

5

6 EXHIBIT INDEX

7

8 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE NO.

901 Notice of Video Deposition. 07

1002 Complaint. 11

1103 Defendant's Second Interrogatories 13

12 and Requests for Admission to Plaintiff and Plaintiffs Answers

13 and Responses Thereto.

14 04 Memo to All Personnel, from 21 Sheriff Bill Elfo, dated

15 10/10/05.

16 05 Document entitled Advice of 24 Administrative Interview.

1706 Document entitled Advice of 26

18 Administrative Interview.

19 07 Interview with Dep. Paul Murphy. 27

20 08 Miscellaneous Facebook entries. 79

21 09 Miscellaneous Facebook entries. 117

22 10 Email to Kevin Hester, from Paul 135 Murphy, dated 3/5/12.

2311 Black and white photocopies. 153

2412 Purchasing Ledger Inquiry. 159

25


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1 EXHIBIT INDEX

2EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE NO.

3

413 Letter of Understanding. 166

514 Letter with attachments to Deputy 172

6 Murphy, from Sheriff Elfo, dated 4/4/11.

715 Entry from Ancestry.com. 181

816 Interview with Dep. Paul Murphy. 210

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1 BE IT REMEMBERED that on Wednesday,

2 February 12, 2014, at 103 East Holly Street, Bellingham,

3 Washington, at 9:10 A.M., before Melonie D. Rainey, CCR,

4 RPR, appeared PAUL R. MURPHY, the witness herein;

5 WHEREUPON, the following proceedings were

6 had, to wit:

7

8 <<<<<< >>>>>>

9

1009:10:23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going on the

1109:10:23 record at 9:10 a.m. on February 12th, 2014. This is the

1209:10:30 video deposition of Paul Murphy taken in the matter of

1309:10:35 Murphy versus Whatcom County, et al., filed in the US

1409:10:39 District Court, Western District of Washington.

1509:10:43 This deposition is taking place at 103 East

1609:10:47 Holly Street, Suite 310, Bellingham, Washington. The

1709:10:52 videographer is Richard Scott, and the court reporter is

1809:10:55 Melonie Rainey for Corpolongo & Associates.

1909:10:59 Will counsel please identify yourselves for

2009:11:02 the record and then the witness may be sworn in.

2109:11:04 MR. KAMERRER: I am Dale Kamerrer, attorney

2209:11:08 for the defendants.

2309:11:11 MS. GALLERY: Liz Gallery, prosecutor's

2409:11:14 office, attorney for the defendants.

2509:11:15 MS. BESCHEN: Emily Beschen, attorney for


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109:11:18 Paul Murphy.

2

3 PAUL R. MURPHY, witness herein, having been

4 first duly sworn on oath,

5 was examined and testified

6 as follows:

709:11:38

809:11:38 E X A M I N A T I O N

909:11:38 BY MR. KAMERRER:

1009:11:38 Q. Would you state your full name and address for

1109:11:40 the record, please?

1209:11:41 A. Full name is Paul Raymond Murphy, 1215 East Smith

1309:11:49 Road, Bellingham, 98226.

1409:11:52 Q. Are you the plaintiff in the lawsuit that's

1509:11:57 entitled Paul Murphy versus Whatcom County, Washington;

1609:12:02 Whatcom County Sheriff's Department, and William J. Elfo

1709:12:07 filed in the United States District Court for the

1809:12:09 Western District of Washington?

1909:12:10 A. I am.

2009:12:11 Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?

2109:12:14 A. Probably.

2209:12:19 Q. You don't recall previously doing that?

2309:12:22 A. The only time I can -- in this case?

2409:12:25 Q. In any case.

2509:12:27 A. In my former duties as a deputy, probably. No

Paul

Highlight

Paul

Highlight


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109:12:37 specific recollection.

209:12:38 Q. You realize you're under oath and sworn to tell

309:12:42 the truth?

409:12:42 A. I am.

509:12:43 Q. And that you're here to answer my questions?

609:12:46 A. I am.

709:12:46 Q. If you don't understand any of my questions,

809:12:50 please say so and I'll try to rephrase them. If you

909:12:53 need a break, say so and we'll take one.

1009:12:57 It's important that you answer out loud rather

1109:13:01 than nodding or shaking your head, and it's best to use

1209:13:05 verbal words, rather than "uh-huhs" and "huh-uhs" that

1309:13:11 are sometimes difficult to translate.

1409:13:13 Will you do that?

1509:13:14 A. I will.

1609:13:14 Q. And please allow me to finish my questions before

1709:13:18 you begin testifying so that you fully understand the

1809:13:23 question, because sometimes the meaning of the question

1909:13:25 can be changed by the last word.

2009:13:28 Will you do that?

2109:13:29 A. I will.

2209:13:34 (Exhibit No. 1 marked.)

2309:13:34 Q. Showing you what was marked as Exhibit No. 1,

2409:13:41 this is the Notice of Deposition and Request for

2509:13:44 Production At Deposition for this deposition.


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109:13:49 Have you seen that? There's actually two

209:13:51 documents stapled together there. Have you seen those?

309:13:54 A. (Witness reviews document.) This looks like what

409:14:12 I got.

509:14:13 Q. The second document there, Defendant's Request

609:14:17 for Production At Deposition calls for you to produce

709:14:21 all computer hard drives for any laptop computer used by

809:14:26 plaintiff assigned to plaintiff by the Whatcom County

909:14:29 Sheriff's Office or possessed by the plaintiff.

1009:14:33 Did you bring any such hard drives with you

1109:14:36 today?

1209:14:37 A. I brought my personal hard drives.

1309:14:42 Q. Where are they?

1409:14:47 A. I should clarify. I brought personal hard drives

1509:14:54 that would match the description of what was requested.

1609:14:58 Q. I would like to see those.

1709:15:03 A. (Witness complies.)

1809:15:18 There's a two-and-a-half-inch SATA drive. These

1909:15:23 are enclosures. I didn't take them out of the

2009:15:26 enclosure, but I can if you want me to.

2109:15:28 Q. Can anyone open them and look at the hard drive

2209:15:32 inside?

2309:15:33 A. I brought a screwdriver, take just a minute to

2409:15:37 open it.

2509:15:37 Q. I don't want to open them right yet. I want to


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109:15:40 have them looked at by Ms. Gallery here while we proceed

209:15:43 with the rest of the deposition. So if you hand those

309:15:46 to me, I'll let her do that. We won't open them without

409:15:50 reviewing that with you first.

509:15:56 A. This one is kind of a snap open one, but -- it's

609:16:02 a -- it's an after-market enclosure for hard drives.

709:16:05 Q. Would you snap that -- unsnap that, please?

809:16:08 A. Sure. (Witness complies.)

909:16:25 Q. Thank you.

1009:16:31 These three hard drives that you brought today

1109:16:36 are what you believe complies with our requests for

1209:16:41 production which is part of Exhibit No. 1; is that

1309:16:48 right?

1409:16:48 A. I don't believe they're what you're looking for.

1509:16:54 Q. Do you have any computer hard drives removed from

1609:16:58 any computer ever issued to you as a deputy sheriff?

1709:17:03 A. I do not.

1809:17:05 Q. Have these hard drives that you brought with you

1909:17:11 today ever been used in a County-issued computer?

2009:17:19 A. If you could clarify that question, please?

2109:17:21 Q. Have any of these three hard drives ever been

2209:17:25 installed in a County-issued computer that you use as a

2309:17:33 deputy sheriff?

2409:17:36 A. To the best of my knowledge, no. One possibly.

2509:17:42 Q. Which one is that?


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109:17:43 A. That would be the 40 gigabyte SATA drive that was

209:17:50 in the silver anti-static envelope.

309:17:54 Q. So the case that you snapped open is one that may

409:17:58 have been in a County-issued computer?

509:18:00 A. No, no. The silver antistatic bag, the one

609:18:05 that -- the loose one, yes.

709:18:07 Q. This one here?

809:18:08 A. That one, yes.

909:18:13 Q. And it says 40 gigabyte right on its face, on its

1009:18:17 label, doesn't it?

1109:18:19 A. Yes.

1209:18:23 Q. What county computer was that ever issued --

1309:18:25 installed in?

1409:18:26 A. Well, I don't know that it was, but it's a

1509:18:31 possible candidate for the Dell Latitude that was issued

1609:18:41 to me originally and transferred to Detective Roff.

1709:18:47 Q. It was issued to you when you were serving as the

1809:18:54 patrol investigator?

1909:18:56 A. Yes.

2009:18:56 Q. And it was turned over to Deputy Roff when you

2109:18:59 left that position?

2209:19:02 A. Correct.

2309:19:02 Q. Just to clarify the record, Roff is R-O-F-F?

2409:19:07 A. Yes, R-O-F-F, Robert, Ocean, Frank, Frank.

2509:19:15 Q. Do you have a concealed weapon permit?


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109:19:17 A. I do not.

209:19:17 Q. Are you carrying a firearm today?

309:19:19 A. I am not.

409:19:20 Q. Do you have one in your possession?

509:19:22 A. I do not.

609:19:30 Q. Have you taken any medication today?

709:19:32 A. No.

809:19:34 Q. Do you regularly take any prescription

909:19:37 medications?

1009:19:38 A. I do not.

1109:19:39 Q. Have you ever been prescribed medication for

1209:19:47 stress, anxiety, depression or any other psychological

1309:19:51 condition?

1409:19:53 A. To the best of my recollection, no.

1509:19:56 Q. Have you ever been diagnosed as having a

1609:19:59 psychological disorder?

1709:20:00 A. No.

1809:20:00 Q. Aside from the notice of video deposition and the

1909:20:09 request for production, have you reviewed any documents

2009:20:14 in preparation for this deposition?

2109:20:16 A. I did not.


2309:20:31 Q. Mr. Murphy, showing you what's been marked as

2409:20:49 Exhibit No. 2, I'll represent to you that's a copy of

2509:20:56 the complaint filed in this action; do you recognize it?


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109:21:03 A. (Witness reviews document.)

209:21:16 Excuse me. Yes, that looks like the one that I

309:21:35 got.

409:21:35 Q. Did you read it before it was filed?

509:21:37 A. I did.

609:21:38 Q. Did you agree with the allegations that were made

709:21:42 in that complaint?

809:21:45 A. In the overall, yes.

909:21:50 Q. Specifically, the allegations of wrongdoing by

1009:21:55 Sheriff Elfo, members of the Sheriff's Department of

1109:22:00 Whatcom County, did you agree with those allegations?

1209:22:06 A. If you could maybe point me to a section or a

1309:22:11 page.

1409:22:14 Q. Well, it's a long complaint, and there are a

1509:22:19 variety of allegations, some of which are historical,

1609:22:22 others of which allege wrongdoing on the part of either

1709:22:26 the sheriff, members of the sheriff's office or Whatcom

1809:22:32 County.

1909:22:32 A. Oh, you mean all of them together? Yes. Yes, I

2009:22:37 did. I do agree.

2109:23:08 Q. Have you seen our interrogatories and requests

2209:23:10 for production that we served on your attorney for you

2309:23:14 to answer?

2409:23:20 A. I'm pretty sure I have seen everything.

2509:23:22 Q. And did you participate in the preparation of


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109:23:25 answers for those various discovery requests?

209:23:29 A. I did.

309:23:30 Q. Did you review them and approve them before they

409:23:35 were returned to us?

509:23:35 A. I did.

609:23:36 Q. Did you agree that the answers in those discovery

709:23:41 responses were true and correct?

809:23:44 A. Absolutely.

909:23:46 Q. I'm going to show you one of those documents and

1009:24:12 be a little more specific about it here once I get it

1109:24:15 marked.


1309:24:17 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 3, do

1409:24:30 you recognize this as Defendant's Second Interrogatories

1509:24:36 and Requests for Admission to Plaintiff and Plaintiff's

1609:24:40 Answers and Responses Thereto?


1809:25:05 I'm sorry. Could you restate that question.

1909:25:07 Q. Yeah, do you recognize this document as it is

2009:25:13 labeled?

2109:25:14 A. Yes, it looks like what I received.

2209:25:17 Q. And did you participate in preparing answers and

2309:25:21 responses to those discovery requests?

2409:25:23 A. I did.

2509:25:24 Q. In fact, on Page 4 it has your signature or a


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109:25:31 copy of it; is that right?

209:25:33 A. That's correct.

309:25:35 Q. What's your current occupation?

409:25:40 A. I am a self-employed automotive diagnostic

509:25:46 technician.

609:25:46 Q. Do you have a business name?

709:25:48 A. Auto Computer and Electronics Specialist, LLC.

809:25:52 Q. What's the address of that business?

909:25:54 A. Same as my home address, 1215 East Smith Road,

1009:25:59 Bellingham, 98226.

1109:26:01 Q. Do you have employees?

1209:26:03 A. I do not.

1309:26:04 Q. Is your wife's name Lori?

1409:26:09 A. That is, yes.

1509:26:10 Q. And it's spelled L-O-R-I?

1609:26:12 A. Correct.

1709:26:13 Q. Some of the posts on Facebook by you that I have

1809:26:21 seen have other posts or messages by someone who refers

1909:26:30 to themselves as quote the wife, end quote. Is that

2009:26:34 your wife, Lori?

2109:26:35 MS. BESCHEN: I object as to vague. Do you

2209:26:37 have a specific post that you're inquiring about?

2309:26:40 MR. KAMERRER: I'm asking about some.

2409:26:45 A. I have never added that to any posts I've ever

2509:26:49 written, so...


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109:26:50 Q. Do you know whether she has added -- she's made

209:26:53 any posts to your Facebook website?

309:26:55 A. Of course she has, yes.

409:26:56 Q. Does she refer to herself as "the wife"?

509:26:59 A. She does.

609:27:00 Q. Is your wife employed outside the home?

709:27:03 A. She is not.

809:27:05 Q. How many live in your household?

909:27:07 A. Two at present.

1009:27:10 Q. Is that you and your wife?

1109:27:12 A. Yes.

1209:27:12 Q. Do you have any other sources of income besides

1309:27:17 your automotive business?

1409:27:18 A. We have a lease income from a cellular

1509:27:26 communications tower on our property. I do have a small

1609:27:32 income that comes also from storage activities related

1709:27:36 to vehicle and boat storage on our property. My wife

1809:27:45 receives disability.

1909:27:51 Q. Is that Social Security Disability?

2009:27:55 A. Yes.

2109:27:55 Q. Did you file a federal income tax return for

2209:27:58 2012?

2309:27:58 A. Yes.

2409:27:59 Q. Have you filed an income fax return yet for 2013?

2509:28:03 A. Working on it now, but no.


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109:28:05 Q. Are you claiming a loss of income in connection

209:28:12 with this lawsuit?


409:28:14 Q. Have you calculated what that amount is?

509:28:17 A. I have not.

609:28:18 Q. Have you talked to any economists or other

709:28:24 experts about your economic loss?

809:28:27 A. I have not.

909:28:28 Q. Do you have an estimate how much you have -- how

1009:28:39 much you will claim as economic loss?

1109:28:41 A. I don't.

1209:28:41 Q. How many years into your county employment were

1309:28:46 you when you were terminated?

1409:28:48 A. Just over 11 years.

1509:28:55 Q. To what age were you planning to work before

1609:28:59 retirement?

1709:29:00 A. I figured I'm in good shape, healthy, fit, I

1809:29:07 figured 53 should be pretty easy and that's the minimum

1909:29:10 age for retirement. I figured I would go at least 53

2009:29:14 and see how it goes.

2109:29:25 Q. Since you were terminated as a deputy sheriff,

2209:29:36 have you applied for any other jobs?

2309:29:38 A. I have.

2409:29:38 Q. With what entities?

2509:29:41 A. I don't have a number. I don't have a list with


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109:29:49 me either, but I would say easily a hundred

209:29:53 applications.

309:29:53 Q. Have you applied for any governmental work?

409:29:59 A. I have.

509:29:59 Q. With what agencies?

609:30:01 A. Probably better said by what ones I didn't apply

709:30:06 to, because I can't think of one I didn't apply to. I

809:30:10 applied to all federal levels, all state levels, every

909:30:20 municipality opening that I found, including tribal.

1009:30:28 Anything that looked like it was suitable, I applied for

1109:30:31 it.

1209:30:33 Q. Were any of those law enforcement-related jobs?

1309:30:37 A. Yes.

1409:30:39 Q. For such jobs, have you taken any psychological

1509:30:45 exams?

1609:30:46 A. No.

1709:30:48 Q. Have you received any rejection letters from any

1809:30:52 prospective employer?

1909:30:54 A. I have.

2009:30:56 Q. How many rejection letters?

2109:30:58 A. One rejection letter that I can think of, and

2209:31:14 maybe two emails. At least one email.

2309:31:19 Q. Have you retained those letters or emails?

2409:31:24 A. I have.

2509:31:25 Q. We're going to make a request for production, so


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109:31:28 please hang onto those.

209:31:30 Have any of those rejection letters cited your

309:31:34 termination as a deputy sheriff as a reason for

409:31:37 unwillingness to employ you?

509:31:42 A. No.

609:31:46 Q. Have you had any interviews for employment with

709:32:01 any of the agencies you've submitted applications to?

809:32:04 A. Not one. Actually, if I could correct that. I

909:32:13 did receive one phone call. I don't think that counted

1009:32:15 as an interview, but...

1109:32:17 Q. Who was that from?

1209:32:18 A. Nooksack Tribal PD was Lieutenant Ashby.

1309:32:26 Q. And what was the gist of the conversation?

1409:32:31 A. I think he was basically looking for background,

1509:32:34 some background details that I didn't have on the

1609:32:37 application. I don't recall exactly what it was. I

1709:32:40 think it had something to do with an anomaly in the

1809:32:45 tribal ID card or something that I furnished.

1909:32:48 Q. Is that application still pending?

2009:32:50 A. I don't believe so. I think it --

2109:32:53 Q. Excuse me.

2209:32:54 A. I believe the position was filled.

2309:32:56 Q. Are any other applications still pending? In

2409:33:00 other words, you haven't received a final answer "yes"

2509:33:04 or "no"?


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109:33:04 A. That's probably most of them. I can only think

209:33:08 of two or three that I actually got a response from.

309:33:13 Q. So it's possible that you may be contacted by any

409:33:18 one of the applications other than the ones you've

509:33:22 received rejections from as a possibility for

609:33:27 employment?

709:33:27 A. I guess it's possible.

809:33:31 Q. I'm wondering, would you set that box on the

909:33:35 floor so it's not in the video?

1009:33:37 A. Sure.

1109:33:37 Q. I'm not sure whether it is or not, but...

1209:33:40 What was your job title in the Air Force?

1309:33:48 A. I had several.

1409:33:50 Q. What was your last title?

1509:33:52 A. The last one would be avionic -- correction, last

1609:33:56 one was a communica- -- combat communication system

1709:34:00 controller.

1809:34:02 Q. Does that involve working with computers?

1909:34:09 A. It did.

2009:34:10 Q. What was your highest rank in the Air Force?

2109:34:12 A. Staff sergeant, E-5.

2209:34:14 Q. How long were you in that rank?

2309:34:20 A. Rough numbers, six years.

2409:34:28 Q. Did you apply for promotion to a higher rank?

2509:34:32 A. I did not.


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109:34:33 Q. Why not?

209:34:35 A. The Air Force has a rank and progression

309:34:40 structure that makes a person eligible or ineligible,

409:34:47 and because of several career field -- or at least two

509:34:51 career field changes, I was not eligible for promotion.

609:34:58 It's kind of by choice, but that's one of the side

709:35:02 effects of that choice.

809:35:03 Q. Did you ever take a promotional exam in the

909:35:06 Whatcom County Sheriff's Office?

1009:35:08 A. I don't think so.

1109:35:12 Q. Why not?

1209:35:17 A. Timing a couple of times I think was one of the

1309:35:24 factors. I was happy with what I was doing was another

1409:35:28 factor. I guess it depends on the time frame.

1509:35:36 Q. Did you ever apply for transfer to the detectives

1609:35:39 division?

1709:35:40 A. I did.

1809:35:40 Q. When did you do that?

1909:35:42 A. It was in 2005.

2009:35:49 Q. And how did you go about that?

2109:35:50 A. The sheriff's office has a memorandum of interest

2209:35:56 process, and I submitted an MOI is what we call it. I

2309:36:02 submitted an MOI to be considered as essentially an

2409:36:06 entry-level detective. It's called patrol investigator.

2509:36:12 Q. As a result of that, did you receive that


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109:36:16 assignment?

209:36:17 A. I did.

309:36:18 Q. Okay.



609:36:43 Exhibit No. 4, is that a copy of the announcement

709:36:53 appointing you as patrol investigator for a term of two

809:36:58 years from January 1, 2006 to December 31, 2007?

909:37:03 A. It looks like what I received.

1009:37:07 Q. You understood going into this position that it

1109:37:11 was a two-year term, didn't you?

1209:37:14 A. I understood it was a two-year term, yes.

1309:37:19 Q. Did the officer who proceeded you in that

1409:37:23 position serve for two years?

1509:37:27 A. Yes, he did, but he also moved to a four-year

1609:37:31 detective position.

1709:37:32 Q. After or during the patrol investigator?

1809:37:38 A. Well, there is one patrol investigator -- or

1909:37:41 there was. At that time, there was one patrol

2009:37:44 investigator position, which is kind of seen as an

2109:37:47 entry-level detective position, and then a person

2209:37:51 decides whether or not they want to remain a detective

2309:37:54 essentially, and can put in for a four-year position to

2409:37:58 remain in detectives. There's also a renewal process

2509:38:02 where a person can resubmit an application to remain a


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109:38:08 detective for another two years.

209:38:13 Q. Did you put in for a four-year detective

309:38:16 position?

409:38:16 A. I did not.

509:38:19 Q. Did the person who followed you in the patrol

609:38:25 investigator position serve for two years?

709:38:34 A. That's a confusing question, if you could

809:38:36 rephrase that, please.

909:38:37 Q. Who followed you in the patrol investigator

1009:38:41 position?

1109:38:41 A. Steve Roff.

1209:38:42 Q. Did Roff serve for two years in that position?

1309:38:49 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.

1409:38:50 Q. Was he extended?

1509:38:52 A. I don't know.

1609:38:52 Q. Did he transfer or move to the detectives

1709:38:55 division for a four-year position?

1809:38:58 A. I'm not sure.

1909:39:04 Q. By 2010, were you proficient in the use of email

2009:39:10 to -- for communications?

2109:39:12 A. Absolutely, yeah.

2209:39:14 Q. Given that you had a laptop computer in your

2309:39:22 patrol car when you were serving as a patrol deputy, did

2409:39:25 you primarily use that for communications by email to

2509:39:30 other deputies or supervisors or other people in the


Page 23

109:39:35 county?

209:39:35 A. Yeah, I think that's an accurate statement.

309:39:41 Q. Did you recognize that email has advantages over

409:39:44 using a telephone in the sense that you can send a

509:39:47 message on your own time and the recipient gets it on

609:39:52 their own time and is able to respond when they're able?

709:39:57 A. I agree with that, yes.

809:39:59 Q. And it also creates a record at both ends of the

909:40:03 communication for future reference?


1109:40:06 Q. And as opposed to that system, telephoning is

1209:40:12 often a problem because you don't reach the person since

1309:40:17 they're not at work or they're on the other line or you

1409:40:20 have to leave a message. You never know when they got

1509:40:23 it. And sometimes -- and there's never really, except

1609:40:28 for voicemail, a record kept of a telephone call.

1709:40:30 A. I guess it depends on what the nature of the call

1809:40:34 is.

1909:40:34 Q. You worked graveyard a lot as patrol deputy?

2009:40:37 A. I did.

2109:40:38 Q. If you wanted to communicate with other people in

2209:40:40 the county, email was by far the best method of doing

2309:40:44 that because often they worked regular day shifts?

2409:40:48 MS. BESCHEN: Is that a question?

2509:40:49 MR. KAMERRER: Yes.


Page 24

109:40:50 Q. Is that correct?

209:40:52 A. Generally I agree with that, but I think it

309:40:56 depends on what the subject is or what the communication

409:40:59 relates to. Occasionally I would send voicemails,

509:41:06 instead of email.

609:41:06 Q. Do you recall being interviewed by Inspector

709:41:10 Cooley on March 1, 2012 and May 3, 2012?

809:41:14 A. I do.

909:41:14 Q. Were you ill on either of those days?

1009:41:16 A. Physically sick, no, I don't think so.

1109:41:23 Q. Were you taking medication on either of those

1209:41:25 days?

1309:41:26 A. No.

1409:41:28 Q. Were you aware that those interviews were being

1509:41:31 recorded?

1609:41:32 A. I was.

1709:41:33 Q. Did you have a Deputy Sheriff's Guild

1809:41:36 representative at each of those interviews?

1909:41:39 A. I did.

2009:41:39 Q. At those interviews, did you understand that you

2109:41:45 had an obligation to answer the investigator's questions

2209:41:51 and to answer them truthfully?

2309:41:53 A. I understood that and to be as fully cooperative

2409:41:57 as I could possibly be.

2509:41:59 Q. And did you endeavor to do that during those


Page 25

109:42:02 interviews?

209:42:03 A. I did.



509:42:39 Exhibit No. 5, do you recognize that as the advice of

609:42:45 administrative interview that pertained to your

709:42:49 interview by Inspector Cooley on March 1, 2012?


909:43:08 Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'm not sure I

1009:43:11 understand what you're asking me.

1109:43:12 MS. BESCHEN: I'm not sure I am either. Can

1209:43:13 you repeat what you...?

1309:43:13 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 5 as a copy of the

1409:43:18 advice of administrative interview that you received,

1509:43:26 initialed, and signed prior to the March 1, 2012

1609:43:31 interview?

1709:43:33 A. I do recall receiving this, yes.

1809:43:35 Q. Do you see your initials in the lower right-hand

1909:43:38 corner of each page?

2009:43:39 A. I do.

2109:43:40 Q. And did you sign the document on Page 4?

2209:43:45 A. That's my signature.

2309:43:46 Q. Okay.

2409:43:47 Did you review that document ahead of time?

2509:43:56 A. At the time when I received it?


Page 26

109:43:58 Q. Yes.

209:44:00 A. I'm sure I read it.

309:44:02 Q. Looks like it's dated February 27, a couple days

409:44:07 before the interview. Is that when you received it?

509:44:18 A. I actually don't remember when I received it. I

609:44:26 believe I had to sign one at the time of the

709:44:29 investigation when the interview took place, but I think

809:44:33 I got one before that too.


1009:44:36 Q. Now showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No.

1109:44:48 6, I'm essentially going to ask you the same questions

1209:44:52 about this document. Is it the advice of administrative

1309:44:56 review that you initialed and signed prior to the

1409:45:01 interview on May 3, 2012?

1509:45:07 A. It appears to be.

1609:45:10 Q. Have you seen the transcripts of your interview

1709:45:38 on March 1, 2012 prior to today?

1809:45:43 A. I have.

1909:45:44 Q. And have you listened to the audio recording of

2009:45:49 that interview?

2109:45:50 A. I did.

2209:45:50 Q. In connection with our discovery request, which

2309:46:02 is Exhibit 3, where we asked some questions about the

2409:46:07 interview transcripts, did you at that time or close to

2509:46:10 this time review the transcripts and listen to the


Page 27

109:46:16 recordings?

209:46:18 A. That sounded like a couple questions.

309:46:20 Q. Well, let me break it down then.

409:46:23 Close in time to you answering our discovery

509:46:28 requests, which are now Exhibit 3 in this deposition,

609:46:32 did you review the transcript of the March 1 interview?

709:46:40 A. I remember there being a couple of

809:46:42 interrogatories, so...

909:46:46 Q. There are?

1009:46:48 A. Yeah. I have reviewed the transcript. I can't

1109:46:52 tell you for sure exactly when I did it.

1209:46:54 Q. Okay.


1409:47:12 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 7,

1509:47:17 Mr. Murphy, I'll represent to you that this is a copy of

1609:47:21 the same transcript that we sent to you and asked

1709:47:27 questions about at least pertaining to the March 1

1809:47:30 interview, and it -- as referred to in our

1909:47:37 interrogatories and requests for admission, which are

2009:47:39 now Exhibit 3.

2109:47:40 Do you recognize that transcript?


2309:47:47 This appears to be the transcript of that

2409:47:49 interview.

2509:47:50 Q. Okay.


Page 28

109:47:51 Now, I -- what I want do is now I want to have

209:47:55 you pull out Exhibit No. 3, please.


409:48:02 Q. I'm going to have you look at these side by side.

509:48:19 If you look at Page 3 of Exhibit 3, following the

609:48:34 objection and an answer to Interrogatory No. 1 --

709:48:41 A. Page 3 of Exhibit 3?

809:48:45 Q. Yeah.

909:48:46 A. And then...?

1009:48:47 Q. You indicate that there are errors on Pages 1 and

1109:48:56 20 of the March 1, 2012 transcript. Do you see that?

1209:49:01 A. Yes.

1309:49:02 Q. Can you tell me what the error is or errors on

1409:49:05 Page 1 of that transcript?

1509:49:07 A. This isn't my noted copy, so I --

1609:49:10 Q. Let me ask some questions about that.

1709:49:12 Do you have a copy of this transcript that is

1809:49:14 marked up with your notes?

1909:49:17 A. I think I have a Word document that I started

2009:49:21 making some corrections on, but I got partially through

2109:49:24 it and basically said it's -- I basically after

2209:49:27 reviewing the audio decided that it was just

2309:49:33 grammatical, typographical spelling --

2409:49:33 Q. Okay.

2509:49:35 A. -- mistakes that -- it was essentially what took


Page 29

109:49:38 place in that interview, minus grammatical, spelling,

209:49:45 punctuation mistakes.

309:49:45 Q. So if I understand you correctly, what you're

409:49:49 saying is that the transcript is essentially correct,

509:49:53 but there are some grammatical and/or spelling errors in

609:49:57 it?

709:49:57 A. Correct.

809:49:58 Q. One of them that I found is that it refers to

909:50:04 Deputy Roff, R-O-F-F as Roth, R-O-T-H?

1009:50:07 A. That's one of the ones I saw too.

1109:50:09 Q. Do you agree?

1209:50:10 A. Yes.

1309:50:11 Q. So understanding that that ought to be corrected,

1409:50:14 otherwise it seems to be what occurred at that

1509:50:18 interview?

1609:50:19 A. Correct.

1709:50:27 Q. Now, is it the same kind of problem on Page 20,

1809:50:30 grammatical or spelling type of error?

1909:50:33 A. 20 of...?

2009:50:39 Q. Of Exhibit 7, that's the March 1, 2012 interview.


2209:50:57 MS. BESCHEN: For clarification, are you

2309:50:59 asking him right now whether the audio matches up to

2409:51:02 this transcript on this page?

2509:51:04 MR. KAMERRER: Not specifically. I'm asking


Page 30

109:51:06 him whether he knows what the error is on Page 20 and

209:51:11 whether it is one of those grammatical or spelling-type

309:51:17 errors.


509:51:33 I don't know.

609:51:34 Q. Okay.

709:51:34 Do your notes indicate what the error is on Page

809:51:46 20, and I'm referring to the Word document you said you

909:51:49 were starting to create?

1009:51:50 A. I don't know about that either. I'm not -- just

1109:51:54 in briefly going over it, I'm not really even seeing

1209:51:59 what the error would be.

1309:52:00 Q. Okay.

1409:52:00 In Exhibit 3 where you refer to the transcript of

1509:52:08 the May 3, 2012 interview, you have a larger number of

1609:52:16 pages indicated as where there were errors?

1709:52:19 A. Yes.

1809:52:20 Q. Were those similar spelling or grammar errors?

1909:52:28 A. I would presume so.

2009:52:30 Q. Do you recall any substantial errors -- in other

2109:52:37 words, something that is recorded that is not what you

2209:52:40 said?

2309:52:42 A. I don't think so. I think it was consistent with

2409:52:47 the intent in the meaning. Like I said, minus spelling,

2509:52:54 grammar, punctuation errors.


Page 31

109:52:56 Q. Thank you.

209:52:57 A. I think there were some skips and hops between --

309:52:59 I think it was just the way it was transcribed because

409:53:02 some of the speech was overlapping, but I don't -- I

509:53:05 don't think it really changed the meaning of what took

609:53:08 place.

709:53:08 Q. During the March 1 interview, did you understand

809:53:16 that the computer that Inspector Cooley was questioning

909:53:22 you about was the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had

1009:53:28 been assigned to you and which was taken from you at the

1109:53:36 Laurel station in February of 2012?

1209:53:39 MS. BESCHEN: I'm going to object as to

1309:53:41 vague. Is there a specific part of the interview that

1409:53:44 you're referring to?

1509:53:46 MR. KAMERRER: Yes.

1609:53:47 MS. BESCHEN: Can you point that out for

1709:53:49 him?

1809:53:49 MR. KAMERRER: I would like him to answer

1909:53:51 the question.

2009:53:52 A. I'm still struggling with filtering through all

2109:53:55 the presuppositions. Can you ask it one more time,

2209:53:58 please?

2309:53:59 Q. Okay. Sure.

2409:54:01 During the March 1 interview, did you understand

2509:54:04 that the computer that Inspector Cooley was questioning


Page 32

109:54:09 you about was the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had

209:54:13 been assigned to you and which was taken from you at the

309:54:18 Laurel station in February, 2012?

409:54:19 A. Yes. Maybe it's me, but it just sounds like

509:54:27 there's a lot of questions lumped in sometimes.

609:54:30 Q. It's a long question, but I think you got it.

709:54:43 I want to direct your attention in Exhibit 7 to

809:54:48 Page 2, Line 74 is where I want to begin. And -- are

909:55:04 you at that point?

1009:55:05 A. I am.

1109:55:06 Q. Okay.

1209:55:06 When I read portions of this to you, what I

1309:55:11 intend to do is read it, then I'll ask you a question.

1409:55:15 And I'm going to leave out nonverbal things like, uh,

1509:55:21 ah, you know where they aren't in context, so I'd like

1609:55:25 you to follow along and then I'll ask you a question.

1709:55:28 And I'm going to begin on Line 74 with the sentence that

1809:55:37 begins "at."

1909:55:39 See that?

2009:55:40 A. Okay.

2109:55:41 Q. Okay. So here is the question: At that time,

2209:55:44 was all of the hardware originally issued to you with

2309:55:47 that computer including any hard drives in the computer?

2409:55:52 Answer: Was all the hardware originally issued

2509:55:56 with the computer? Say that again.


Page 33

109:55:59 Question: At that time, was all of the hardware

209:56:02 that was originally issued to you with that computer,

309:56:07 including any hard drives in the computer?

409:56:10 Answer: No.

509:56:12 Have I read that correctly?

609:56:14 A. That looks right to me.

709:56:17 Q. Okay.

809:56:18 Then you responded further to the question:

909:56:24 Okay. What was not in the computer?

1009:56:28 Your answer: The floppy drive it came with,

1109:56:31 which is kind of an afterthought.


1309:56:35 A. Yes.

1409:56:36 Q. Now, by "floppy drive," did you mean a 3.5 inch

1509:56:42 receptacle for a portable storage device?

1609:56:48 A. Yes. Specifically the interchangeable -- laptops

1709:56:56 have components that you can just swap out and replace,

1809:57:00 so I was talking about the floppy drive that's a

1909:57:04 replaceable sub assembly.

2009:57:06 Q. Is it the kind of drive that holds one of those

2109:57:10 plastic 3.5 inch drives that you click in and then you

2209:57:15 can save documents to it?

2309:57:17 A. Yes.

2409:57:17 Q. And you can pull it out and take it to another

2509:57:19 computer and put it in and use it there?


Page 34

109:57:22 A. Yes.

209:57:23 Q. Okay.

309:57:23 And do I understand correctly that what did you

409:57:30 was remove that floppy drive, that is the -- the

509:57:34 internal component of the computer and replace it with

609:57:37 something else?

709:57:37 A. I did.

809:57:38 Q. Was that a CD drive?

909:57:41 A. I was -- I think it was a -- might have been a

1009:57:46 DVD drive, but it was at least a CDR drive.

1109:57:52 THE REPORTER: "It was at least a"...?

1209:57:53 THE WITNESS: CDR like --

1309:57:53 THE REPORTER: Got it.

1409:57:53 THE WITNESS: -- Charles, David, Robert.

1509:57:57 A. I think it was a DVD drive, CDR.

1609:58:01 Q. If you turn to Page 3 of that exhibit and look at

1709:58:05 Line 109, the question is: Was there anything in the

1809:58:15 computer in its place?

1909:58:15 Your answer: Yes, there's a CD drive that I

2009:58:19 bought.


2209:58:21 A. Yes.

2309:58:22 Q. Okay. So does that refresh your memory that it

2409:58:23 was a CD drive that you put into that computer?

2509:58:28 A. It does. But it's -- well, it's -- it's kind of


Page 35

109:58:34 a generic term. The CD drive is anything that's

209:58:38 optical. So it could actually be a DVD drive.

309:58:41 Q. So you altered your County-issued computer at

409:58:45 that point, didn't you?

509:58:46 A. I did.

609:58:46 Q. Did you request permission from any supervisor of

709:58:51 yours to do that?

809:58:52 A. I did not.

909:58:52 Q. Did you return the floppy disc drive that had

1009:59:00 been in the computer to the County?

1109:59:03 A. Eventually. Or do you mean at that time?

1209:59:06 Q. At the time you removed it and replaced it with a

1309:59:11 CD, did you return the drive --

1409:59:13 A. I did not.

1509:59:14 Q. -- the floppy drive to the County?

1609:59:16 A. I did not.

1709:59:16 Q. Did you at some time do that?

1809:59:18 A. I did.

1909:59:19 Q. When?

2009:59:20 A. It was the final -- the final clear-out, I guess,

2109:59:27 exchange of property items with Lieutenant Rossmiller.

2209:59:31 I gave him the floppy drive. It took some time to find

2309:59:36 it. I had to dig for it. I wasn't sure where it was.

2409:59:39 I knew I still had it. I just didn't know where.

2509:59:44 Q. And was that returned in some container?


Page 36

109:59:47 A. I think it was loose. I don't think it was in a

209:59:53 box. I don't recall. I just know I gave him the drive

309:59:57 back.

409:59:57 Q. Did you return other equipment at that time?

510:00:00 A. I did.

610:00:01 Q. Did you put that in a box and give it to the --

710:00:08 Rossmiller?

810:00:08 A. I think he put in a box. I don't think I put it

910:00:12 in a box.

1010:00:12 Q. Did you explain to Rossmiller what that was, what

1110:00:17 that device was?

1210:00:19 A. No.

1310:00:27 Q. Did you also install a personal hard drive in

1410:00:31 that computer?

1510:00:32 A. At the time I thought I did. I don't believe

1610:00:41 that's the case now.

1710:00:42 Q. Turn to Page 3 of Exhibit 7.


1910:00:55 Q. And I'll begin at Line 122 and then I'll ask you

2010:00:59 a question.

2110:01:00 Question: Okay. And whose hard drive -- strike

2210:01:05 that. I'm going to go up a couple lines. I'm sorry.

2310:01:09 Starting at 122. Question: Okay. Was there a

2410:01:12 hard drive in the computer?

2510:01:15 Answer: Yes.


Page 37

110:01:17 Question: Okay. And whose hard drive was that?

210:01:21 Answer: That one's mine.


410:01:27 A. Yes.

510:01:28 Q. So you were telling Inspector Cooley that you had

610:01:35 put your only own -- personally-owned hard drive into

710:01:38 the Panasonic Toughbook computer that had been assigned

810:01:42 to you?

910:01:42 A. Yes.

1010:01:46 Q. Was that not correct?

1110:01:48 A. Generically, I suppose. The general meaning, but

1210:01:56 in everything that's transpired up to this point, I've

1310:02:02 had a chance to reflect a lot on this series of events.

1410:02:09 I don't think at the time I was recalling the

1510:02:12 correct computer. So the hard -- I do believe the hard

1610:02:18 drive that I had sent in with that computer was sent is

1710:02:21 in with that computer, but I didn't personally put it

1810:02:24 in. At the time I wasn't sure of that. I wasn't clear

1910:02:28 on that.

2010:02:28 Q. Did you ever put a personal hard drive into that

2110:02:31 computer?

2210:02:33 A. That computer, I don't believe I did. Well --

2310:02:43 rephrase the question, please.

2410:02:48 Q. Did you ever put a personally-owned hard drive

2510:02:53 into the Panasonic Toughbook computer that was assigned


Page 38

110:02:56 to you?

210:02:57 A. The MDT computer?

310:03:01 Q. You say MDT, but it's the Panasonic Toughbook

410:03:05 computer that I'm referring to and that Inspector Cooley

510:03:08 was referring to.

610:03:09 A. That's what is commonly called MDT.

710:03:11 Q. Just so we're clear, we're talking about the

810:03:14 Panasonic Toughbook computer, do you understand that?

910:03:17 A. I do.

1010:03:19 Q. Okay.

1110:03:21 A. My recollection is that I furnished a hard drive

1210:03:26 to County IT based on discussions. I can't -- I just

1310:03:31 don't whether I installed the hard drive in that MDT or

1410:03:35 not, the Panasonic Toughbook, CF-29 Panasonic Toughbook.

1510:03:40 Q. When did you turn that in to the County?

1610:03:44 A. October -- September, October of 2010 I think is

1710:03:53 when the migration took place.

1810:03:55 Q. So it's when the migration occurred?

1910:03:57 A. Correct.

2010:03:58 Q. Was it in the computer?

2110:04:01 A. "It" meaning the hard drive?

2210:04:03 Q. The hard drive, yes.

2310:04:06 A. Near as I can recall, yes.

2410:04:08 Q. Prior to the migration, had a personally-owned

2510:04:18 hard drive ever resided in that Panasonic Toughbook


Page 39

110:04:23 computer?

210:04:24 A. I don't believe so.

310:04:27 Q. I want to draw your attention to Page 3 beginning

410:04:32 at Line 130. Are you there?

510:04:37 A. I am.

610:04:37 Q. Question: Okay. Tell me how it came to be that

710:04:44 a personal hard drive or a hard drive purchased by you

810:04:48 ended up in that computer?

910:04:52 Your answer: Let's see, when I came out of

1010:04:56 detectives, Roff was rotating back in. I got Roff's car

1110:05:03 and I got Roff's computer. And as I -- as near as I can

1210:05:08 recall, I just remember thinking to myself, the -- the

1310:05:13 capacity of the drive is too small.


1510:05:20 A. Yes. Thinking out loud.

1610:05:23 Q. And I said Roff, but the transcript says Roth,

1710:05:30 R-O-T-H, but that's an error. We both agree with that?

1810:05:33 A. Yes.

1910:05:34 Q. So you were describing for Cooley the process of

2010:05:39 deciding to replace the hard drive in the computer, the

2110:05:45 Panasonic Toughbook computer; is that right?

2210:05:48 A. I -- looks to me like I'm thinking out loud,

2310:05:53 trying to walk myself through it to remember what it is

2410:05:56 that I did.

2510:05:57 Q. Then you went on. And this is -- begins at Page


Page 40

110:06:02 4, Line 136.

210:06:04 You say: I had already upgraded two computers up

310:06:09 to that point. IT didn't have a problem with that, and

410:06:14 I just thought, okay, well, maybe we'll just do the same

510:06:18 thing on this one, so I upgraded that hard drive to a --

610:06:23 and this is -- I just don't remember. It was -- I know

710:06:28 it was double the capacity. I can't remember if what

810:06:32 was in there was 40 and I put an 80 in or if it was a 20

910:06:37 and I put a 40 in. I don't recall.

1010:06:40 So, again, you're describing in more detail the

1110:06:43 process of replacing the original hard drive in that

1210:06:47 Panasonic Toughbook computer with a personally-owned

1310:06:51 hard drive; is that right?

1410:06:56 A. I don't think I would characterize it that way,

1510:06:58 no.

1610:06:59 Q. How would you characterize it?

1710:07:00 A. I would characterize it as me just being open and

1810:07:03 trying to describe exactly what it is that I can recall.

1910:07:06 Q. You weren't saying something that wasn't true?

2010:07:13 A. I don't think that's the same thing.

2110:07:15 Q. Today though you're saying you didn't put a hard

2210:07:18 drive, personally-owned hard drive in that computer. So

2310:07:21 that's different, isn't it?

2410:07:23 A. Well, there's also some new information, so

2510:07:27 there's some different understanding on my part compared


Page 41

110:07:30 to when this interview took place.

210:07:33 Q. But what you said at that time, under an

310:07:35 obligation to answer truthfully the questions were put

410:07:39 to you, was that you put a new -- a personally-owned

510:07:45 hard drive into that Toughbook computer, correct?

610:07:47 A. If you're asking me if I told the truth, the

710:07:50 answer is yes.

810:07:51 Q. So you did put a personally-owned Toughbook --

910:07:53 hard drive in that computer?

1010:07:55 A. I don't think I knew is what it came down to. I

1110:08:02 should not have answered the question that way. I don't

1210:08:07 think I had a specific independent recollection of it,

1310:08:12 which I believe was a mistake on my part. And I just

1410:08:16 simply didn't remember.

1510:08:20 Q. Cooley wasn't questioning you about any earlier

1610:08:26 computers that were assigned to you, but you talked

1710:08:28 about those in this answer, didn't you?

1810:08:30 A. I did.

1910:08:31 Q. And those were two other computers where you had

2010:08:38 replaced the original County-owned hard drives with

2110:08:41 personally-owned hard drives; is that right?

2210:08:43 A. Yes.

2310:08:46 Q. Was the Toughbook computer that you received from

2410:08:55 Deputy Roff performing inadequately prior to the

2510:08:59 migration in September, 2010?


Page 42

110:09:05 A. You'll have to define what you mean by

210:09:08 "performing."

310:09:09 Q. Well, by any measure that you would use to define

410:09:14 the performance of a computer of that sort, was it

510:09:18 performing inadequately in your opinion?

610:09:23 A. Nothing stands out as a problem. And really, the

710:09:29 only things I ever did have a problem with was just

810:09:34 storage size. There just wasn't enough memory.

910:09:37 Q. Did you have problems with storage size on that

1010:09:40 Panasonic Toughbook computer prior to the September 2010

1110:09:45 migration?

1210:09:47 A. Specific independent recollection of that, I

1310:09:50 don't have. I can speculate. But I don't recall.

1410:09:56 Q. Did you add programs to that Panasonic Toughbook

1510:10:01 computer prior to the migration in September, 2010?

1610:10:05 A. That I am sure of, yes.

1710:10:09 Q. And did you add also data files?

1810:10:13 A. I did.

1910:10:16 Q. At any point did the capacity of the original

2010:10:21 hard drive become compromised because of the programs

2110:10:25 and data that you were installing on it?

2210:10:30 A. I believe so, but, again, that's speculation on

2310:10:33 my part. I don't have an actual recollection of that.

2410:10:36 Q. That would be a reason why you might decide to

2510:10:43 upgrade the hard drive?


Page 43

110:10:45 A. Correct, yes.

210:10:46 Q. Had any other computer ever been transferred to

310:10:52 you from Deputy Roff?

410:10:54 A. From Roff, no.

510:10:57 Q. Did you find material on the computer that Roff

610:11:01 had installed that compromised the capacity of the hard

710:11:06 drive?

810:11:06 A. None that I recall.

910:11:15 Q. Was the laptop that was ultimately taken from you

1010:11:29 in February, 2012 the only Panasonic Toughbook computer

1110:11:34 that was ever assigned to you by the sheriff's office?

1210:11:39 A. Assigned by name, yes. Yes, I think that there's

1310:11:48 a chance I might have had a temporary one at some point,

1410:11:51 but it was -- it was just a temporary interim use for a

1510:11:56 day or two. I think there was something wrong with one

1610:12:00 of mine at one point.

1710:12:01 Q. From the time that you received the Panasonic

1810:12:04 Toughbook computer from Deputy Roff until the migration

1910:12:11 in September, 2010, did you allow other deputies to use

2010:12:17 the Toughbook computer that was assigned to you?

2110:12:22 A. If I did, I don't recall. I guess the correct

2210:12:37 answer would be I don't know.

2310:12:39 Q. If you intended to upgrade the hard drive in the

2410:12:44 Panasonic Toughbook computer, is it correct that you

2510:12:48 would have to duplicate or clone the original hard drive


Page 44

110:12:56 onto the new hard drive before it could be used for law

210:13:01 enforcement purposes?

310:13:03 A. Yeah, if I understand what you're asking, yes.

410:13:10 In order to make that happen, I believe so, yes.

510:13:13 Q. Did you tell other deputies that you had cloned

610:13:16 the hard drive in your computer?

710:13:18 A. I did.

810:13:19 Q. Why did you do that?

910:13:20 A. Because I did.

1010:13:23 Q. When did you clone the hard drive in the

1110:13:27 Panasonic computer?

1210:13:28 A. Well, that's a presupposition that it's the

1310:13:32 Panasonic computer. I probably was just mixing up

1410:13:34 recollections, I guess. I did actually clone the

1510:13:38 detective's computer that was assigned to me that Roff

1610:13:42 later assumed. That would be the Dell Latitude. I did

1710:13:47 clone that one.

1810:13:48 Q. So when you told deputies at the migration in

1910:13:57 2010 that you had cloned the hard drive on your

2010:14:01 computer, you weren't referring to the Panasonic

2110:14:05 Toughbook computer that was currently assigned to you?

2210:14:08 A. When I told deputies at the migration...?

2310:14:13 MS. BESCHEN: I think he means the SECTOR

2410:14:17 training.

2510:14:19 MR. KAMERRER: I'm talking about the


Page 45

110:14:20 migration event in September of 2010. I'll get to the

210:14:26 SECTOR training in a minute.

310:14:27 A. You lost me then. Can you rephrase that, please?

410:15:49 (Discussion off the record.)

510:15:49 (Last question read.)

610:15:49 MS. BESCHEN: I'm going to object that it

710:15:51 assumes facts not in evidence.

810:15:55 Q. Go ahead.

910:15:57 A. What deputy are we talking about?

1010:15:59 Q. Deputies who were at the migration in September,

1110:16:03 2010?

1210:16:06 MS. BESCHEN: The migration was just they

1310:16:08 dropped their computers off.

1410:16:09 MR. KAMERRER: Well, you're answering for

1510:16:11 him. He can answer the question.

1610:16:12 Go ahead.

1710:16:13 A. That's essentially my answer. There was no --

1810:16:15 Q. What is your answer?

1910:16:17 A. My answer is we didn't attend the migration.

2010:16:19 Q. Okay.

2110:16:19 How about at the SECTOR training when you told

2210:16:22 deputies that you had cloned the hard drive in your


2410:16:27 A. Oh, I think that was jokes that other people were

2510:16:30 throwing around based on rumors.


Page 46

110:16:32 Q. Okay.

210:16:33 The SECTOR training was in February of 2012,

310:16:37 correct?

410:16:37 A. Yes.

510:16:38 Q. You went there with your Panasonic Toughbook

610:16:43 computer; is that right?

710:16:44 A. I did.

810:16:44 Q. And that computer had been the only Panasonic

910:16:49 Toughbook computer assigned to you, and it had been the

1010:16:53 one you used since you returned to patrol duties in

1110:16:59 January of 2008; is that right?

1210:17:01 A. Yes.

1310:17:01 Q. So for approximately four years prior to the

1410:17:06 SECTOR training in February of 2012, your only

1510:17:12 County-issued computer was the Panasonic Toughbook

1610:17:16 computer; is that right?

1710:17:17 A. Yes. I would agree with that.

1810:17:19 Q. And did you tell deputies at that 2012 SECTOR

1910:17:23 training that you had cloned your hard drive?

2010:17:26 A. I think I was responding to deputies that were

2110:17:30 ribbing me.

2210:17:34 Q. Did you tell them that?

2310:17:36 A. I probably did say those words, yes.

2410:17:38 Q. And you were referring to a more than four years

2510:17:43 past computer when you said that; is that correct?


Page 47

110:17:46 A. They were referring to something. I don't know

210:17:50 what. You'll have to ask them.

310:17:52 Q. Were they joking with you about it?

410:17:54 A. Absolutely they were.

510:17:55 Q. Were they laughing as they said that?

610:17:58 A. Yes, they were.

710:17:59 Q. Were you laughing as you said what you said?

810:18:02 A. At one point we were all laughing.

910:18:04 Q. So it was just kind of a joke?

1010:18:06 A. It was kind of a joke, yes.

1110:18:08 Q. Did you also tell them that you didn't want IT to

1210:18:12 see what was on your computer?

1310:18:13 A. Whether I said the words or not, I can't tell

1410:18:18 you. If they're saying I said it, then I guess I said

1510:18:21 it, but I would say that it's in the context of kind of

1610:18:24 a joking, hah-hah-hah, Murphy doesn't want anybody

1710:18:28 looking at his computer, they might plant democrat files

1810:18:32 on there kind of thing.

1910:18:34 It was -- it's not what it's been made out to be.

2010:18:39 Q. Why didn't you want IT to see your computer as of

2110:18:46 February, 2012?

2210:18:48 A. Well, there definitely was information on the

2310:18:53 computer that I didn't want distributed beyond my

2410:18:59 control.

2510:19:02 Q. What was that information?


Page 48

110:19:04 A. I would say primarily outlaw motorcycle gang

210:19:08 information but maybe some family pictures. I don't

310:19:12 know, emails, whatever. Just personal private stuff.

410:19:19 Q. Were you assigned to investigate outlaw

510:19:24 motorcycle gangs?

610:19:26 A. I was not.

710:19:26 Q. Was that a hobby of yours?

810:19:29 A. That's probably a good description.

910:19:33 Q. And you were installing that kind of information

1010:19:38 on your office-owned Panasonic Toughbook computer; is

1110:19:44 that correct?

1210:19:44 A. I was using a computer what a computer is used

1310:19:48 for, yes.

1410:19:49 Q. Were any of those people who were represented as

1510:19:56 part of outlaw motorcycle gang membership or activities

1610:20:01 ever prosecuted in Whatcom County?

1710:20:03 A. Absolutely. Maybe I answered too fast on that.

1810:20:18 You asked if they were ever prosecuted in Whatcom County

1910:20:22 as outlaw motorcycle gang members?

2010:20:24 Q. Well, as criminals.

2110:20:26 A. Yes.

2210:20:26 Q. Were any of them prosecuted in other

2310:20:29 jurisdictions?

2410:20:29 A. Yes.

2510:20:30 Q. What was the nature of the information that you


Page 49

110:20:38 had on your Panasonic Toughbook computer pertaining to

210:20:43 those people?

310:20:44 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; vague.

410:20:45 You can answer.

510:20:46 A. Can you clarify that, please?

610:20:49 Q. Well, I don't think it's vague. Take a crack at

710:20:52 it.

810:20:53 A. Maybe restate it.

910:20:57 Q. What kind of information on the people who were

1010:21:02 members of outlaw motorcycle gangs did you have on your

1110:21:07 Panasonic computer?

1210:21:08 A. I had what I would consider to be unique

1310:21:11 information. Proprietary is not the right word, but

1410:21:17 it's along the lines of kind of being proprietary. It's

1510:21:21 based on field observations as opposed to based on

1610:21:25 databases.

1710:21:26 So we had, I thought, pretty good information as

1810:21:30 it relates to names and members and -- but it's all

1910:21:34 based on the I-520 information that comes from reports

2010:21:38 and it comes from court data, comes from -- whatever you

2110:21:43 can find in a computer database.

2210:21:45 My information is different.

2310:21:46 Q. Okay. Unique, is that what you mean, unique?

2410:21:50 A. Yes.

2510:21:51 Q. When you say "proprietary," you didn't have a


Page 50

110:21:54 business that was involved with outlaw motorcycle gangs,

210:21:58 did you?

310:21:58 A. No. That's a poor choice of words.

410:22:01 "Unique." Let's just go with "unique."

510:22:04 Q. Did it include photographs?

610:22:06 A. Probably, yes.

710:22:08 Q. Did it include names associated with those

810:22:11 photographs?

910:22:11 A. I think so.

1010:22:13 Q. Did it have information on observation of

1110:22:18 activities by those people, those outlaw motorcycle gang

1210:22:24 people?

1310:22:24 A. I think that would probably be the more important

1410:22:27 part of it.

1510:22:28 Q. Was it in the computer?

1610:22:29 A. I believe so, yes.

1710:22:31 Q. Did it contain information pertaining to their

1810:22:35 guilt or innocence of any crime?

1910:22:37 A. Guilt or innocence of a crime, no, because it's

2010:22:43 not a crime to belong to any organization, even a

2110:22:48 motorcycle organization.

2210:22:49 However, courts have determined that certain

2310:22:53 clubs are criminal organizations. So I'm not sure if

2410:22:58 that answers the question or not, but...

2510:23:00 Q. What outlaw motorcycle gangs that were criminal


Page 51

110:23:06 organizations did you have information on?

210:23:09 A. Any what I would consider to be a one percenter

310:23:16 gang, a puppet club, affiliate club or support club of

410:23:21 the bigger one percenter clubs, which is the whole

510:23:24 spectrum.

610:23:25 Q. Did any of those operate in Whatcom County?

710:23:28 A. Absolutely, yes.

810:23:29 Q. Which ones? Do they have names of gangs?

910:23:32 A. Banditos is a big one. But that's the -- I would

1010:23:35 say that's the more commonly known one. But we had

1110:23:38 Hell's Angels activity in Whatcom County as well.

1210:23:41 Q. Have any members of the Banditos Motorcycle Club

1310:23:45 been prosecuted in Whatcom County?

1410:23:47 A. Prosecuted as Banditos.

1510:23:50 Q. Well, as criminals.

1610:23:52 A. Oh, yes, absolutely.

1710:23:55 Q. Did you have any information pertaining to those

1810:23:57 prosecutions?

1910:23:58 A. I don't think so because I think my information

2010:24:05 gathering or intel or observations wasn't really focused

2110:24:11 on that aspect. I mean, we already have the County's

2210:24:14 I-520 system that I could bring up with just a few

2310:24:18 keystrokes, so I don't know why I would duplicate that.

2410:24:22 Q. Would you bring up I-520 information and draw

2510:24:29 relationships or correlations between things you had


Page 52

110:24:34 observed and the information from the I-520 source?

210:24:40 A. Yes.

310:24:40 Q. So it was like analysis, would that be correct?

410:24:47 A. There is certainly an analytical component to it,

510:24:52 because it's based on my understanding of what -- what

610:24:56 it is that I'm observing, that I think most people

710:24:59 probably wouldn't understand.

810:25:00 Q. Okay.

910:25:01 Did it pertain to whether those people had

1010:25:05 committed a crime or not?

1110:25:07 A. I think it pertains to a specific identifiable

1210:25:15 crime, no, but the tendency towards or the propensity

1310:25:22 towards organized crime, absolutely and that's the whole

1410:25:27 point of keeping those sort of notes.

1510:25:30 Q. Where is that information now?

1610:25:32 A. Well, they took the computer, so wherever the

1710:25:36 computer is at.

1810:25:37 Q. Did you ever download that to any other storage

1910:25:41 device?

2010:25:43 A. Probably.

2110:25:44 Q. And what kind of storage device?

2210:25:48 A. A flash -- maybe a flash drive. It was sent via

2310:25:51 email. In fact, the County actually gave some of it

2410:25:55 back to me via public disclosure.

2510:25:57 Q. Did you retain the storage device that had that


Page 53

110:26:00 information?

210:26:01 A. Yes.

310:26:02 Q. Or devices. Were there more than one?

410:26:05 A. There's at least one flash drive, maybe two.

510:26:13 Q. And you still have those?

610:26:15 A. Yes.

710:26:16 Q. Did you install any of that information on a hard

810:26:22 drive that you had cloned from some county computer?

910:26:31 A. Are you asking me if I have a county cloned

1010:26:35 computer? If you are, the answer is no.

1110:26:38 Q. I asked if you had installed that information on

1210:26:43 any hard drive that you had cloned from a county

1310:26:47 computer.

1410:26:49 A. If I have installed that -- sounds to me like

1510:26:52 you're asking me if I have never cloned County computer

1610:26:56 drive, and I don't.

1710:26:57 Q. Well, there's two cloned hard drives every time

1810:27:00 someone clones one. There's the original and there is

1910:27:04 the new one; is that right?

2010:27:05 A. Well, if I'm -- if I'm right in what that hard

2110:27:08 drive is right there, there it is right there.

2210:27:11 Q. Which one is it?

2310:27:16 A. And I say "if I'm right," because I don't have a

2410:27:19 way to know.

2510:27:19 Q. Are you referring to this hard drive?


Page 54

110:27:21 A. Yes.

210:27:22 Q. Would you just hold that up so that it's on the

310:27:25 screen there. And just -- is it a Hitachi?

410:27:29 A. It's a Hitachi Travel Star 40 gigabyte SATA

510:27:40 drive.

610:27:40 Q. Where did that come from?

710:27:41 A. I believe -- well, do I know? I don't know.

810:27:50 Q. Where do you think it came from?

910:27:52 A. I think it came out of the Dell Latitude that

1010:27:56 Deputy Roff has now.

1110:27:57 Q. So that's County property?

1210:28:00 A. If I'm right. So I -- to answer your question,

1310:28:05 though, I don't know that that's County property.

1410:28:08 Because the County has been unable to identify what it

1510:28:11 is that I'm supposed to have.

1610:28:13 Q. How many laptop compatible hard drives do you

1710:28:19 have in your collection?

1810:28:22 A. Well, I brought those three. There's a --

1910:28:27 there's a fourth one that is actually in my old laptop,

2010:28:31 and I think that's probably the hard drive that came

2110:28:33 with that laptop. So I didn't bring that because I

2210:28:37 would actually have to take the laptop apart to bring

2310:28:41 it. But it's the first -- it's the first laptop that I

2410:28:45 ever started using on patrol. In fact, I was probably

2510:28:51 amongst the first to be using a patrol car mounted


Page 55

110:28:51 laptop --

210:28:51 THE REPORTER: "In fact, I was probably"...?

310:28:51 Just repeat what you said.

410:28:55 A. I was probably amongst the first, if not the

510:28:57 first, to use a patrol car mounted laptop at the Whatcom

610:29:03 County Sheriff's Office. So that laptop is my -- that's

710:29:05 my personal computer before I was issued one. That's

810:29:08 the one that's missing. So there would be four total.

910:29:16 So I brought -- those three hard drives that are

1010:29:24 right there in front of you, those are

1110:29:26 two-and-a-half-inch hard drives. That would be what's

1210:29:33 considered to be the -- the typical laptop sized hard

1310:29:38 drive. I did not bring the three-and-a-half-inch

1410:29:42 drives, which are considered to be the larger desktop

1510:29:46 drives, because those are all just my junk drives.

1610:29:51 Q. They're not compatible with a laptop computer?

1710:29:54 A. Correct.

1810:29:54 Q. Do you know what the capacity is of this hard

1910:29:59 drive?

2010:30:00 A. I don't. I think it's a -- the piece that's

2110:30:09 inside will pull out. I think it's a Seagate 200. I

2210:30:17 can't remember. (Witness reviews hard drive.)

2310:30:51 This is a Seagate 320.

2410:30:55 Q. What's the gigabyte size?

2510:30:59 A. 320.


Page 56

110:31:03 Q. Gigabytes?

210:31:04 A. Yeah. Yes.

310:31:07 Q. All right.

410:31:12 Could we see those three pieces? Thank you.

510:31:21 This particular hard drive enclosure, is that

610:31:23 something that is purchased to use as an external hard

710:31:28 drive and it contains a hard drive in it, or is it a box

810:31:35 that you buy to put a hard drive into?

910:31:42 A. Yes, and yes.

1010:31:43 Q. Okay.

1110:31:43 Did that come with a hard drive in it?

1210:31:45 A. I don't think it did.

1310:31:47 Q. Okay.

1410:31:47 So you put a hard drive into it?

1510:31:49 A. I did, yes.

1610:31:51 Q. That allows you to sit that on a desk, connect it

1710:31:55 to a computer and have a semi-portable additional hard

1810:31:59 drive; is that right?

1910:32:00 A. Yes. I guess the idea would be sort of a large

2010:32:08 flash drive --

2110:32:08 Q. Okay.

2210:32:10 A. -- because at one time, especially -- well,

2310:32:14 during the time in detectives, I think the biggest flash

2410:32:17 drive I could find was, like, a 16 meg.

2510:32:20 Q. And this is a 250 gigabyte hard drive?


Page 57

110:32:24 A. Yes. So you can't -- the first -- the first

210:32:29 flash drive I had, it was small. I don't remember the

310:32:37 exact size, but it was very tiny. I mean, you couldn't

410:32:40 -- you really couldn't put video on it, you couldn't put

510:32:43 audio on it, you couldn't put large picture files on it.

610:32:47 You could put basically report documents and time sheets

710:32:50 and that was about it. So this was the idea, the idea

810:32:54 was to have a larger way of storing your backup stuff.

910:33:01 Q. Have either of the 250 gigabyte hard drive or the

1010:33:06 320 gigabyte hard drive ever been installed in a

1110:33:10 County-owned computer?

1210:33:10 A. Installed in, no. Connected to, possibly.

1310:33:10 Q. Okay.

1410:33:17 A. Like a USB.

1510:33:19 MS. BESCHEN: Would this be a good time for

1610:33:23 a break?

1710:33:24 MR. KAMERRER: Sure.

1810:33:25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. We're going off

1910:33:26 the record at 10:33 a.m.

2010:33:31 (Pause in the proceedings.)

2110:49:47 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record

2210:49:50 at 10:49 a.m.

2310:49:54 Q. I want to go back to Exhibit No. 7, Mr. Murphy,

2410:50:14 that's the transcript of the March 1, 2012 interview and

2510:50:27 Page 12. Did I say that?


Page 58

110:50:39 A. (Witness reviews document.) Okay.

210:50:44 Q. I want to go to Line 512, read a portion of it,

310:50:52 and then I'll ask you a question. First word is "okay,"

410:51:00 do you see that?

510:51:00 A. I do.

610:51:01 Q. "Okay. The drive that you removed from the

710:51:05 laptop from the Toughbook that you now know -- don't

810:51:11 know where it is, did you ever use it for anything, did

910:51:15 you connect it to any other computers, did you -- did

1010:51:20 you make use of it in any other way?"

1110:51:25 And then your answer is: The drive that was in

1210:51:29 there?

1310:51:30 Question: Correct.

1410:51:32 Answer: It's backup. If it's -- if it's -- if

1510:51:39 it is still a backup.

1610:51:43 And then question: Sounds like a nonverbal

1710:51:46 uh-huh or uh-huh comment by Cooley.

1810:51:54 Answer: Yeah, I would have had to connect it for

1910:51:58 backup purposes.


2110:52:03 A. Looks right to me.

2210:52:06 Q. So you're telling him that the drive you had

2310:52:06 earlier told him had been removed from the Panasonic

2410:52:06 Toughbook computer --

2510:52:06 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. I fell behind.


Page 59

110:52:19 "So you're telling him that the drive"...?

210:52:19 MR. KAMERRER: Okay.

310:52:19 THE REPORTER: Sorry.

410:52:19 MR. KAMERRER: That's okay.

510:52:20 Q. You are telling Cooley that the drive you had

610:52:23 earlier said had been removed from the laptop, the

710:52:27 Toughbook, could be used as a backup drive; is that

810:52:36 correct?

910:52:36 A. If there's some other way to read that, I'm

1010:52:45 missing it.

1110:52:46 Q. Okay.

1210:52:46 And so that means it could be put into something

1310:52:48 like this little box you have here today?

1410:52:50 A. Yes.

1510:52:50 Q. And connected to a computer and used as a -- as a

1610:52:54 substitute additional storage device?

1710:52:57 A. Yes.

1810:53:00 Q. Then the questioning on Page 12 continues on Line

1910:53:10 527 where Cooley asks: Okay. Let me back up a little

2010:53:16 bit. So describe to me the process that you used, how

2110:53:20 to --

2210:53:22 Answer: I don't know where the drive is.

2310:53:25 Question: Okay. I understand.

2410:53:28 Answer: Because I don't know where it's at. I

2510:53:31 can't tell you for sure what it is.


Page 60

110:53:35 Question: Okay. Understand.

210:53:37 Answer: I'm confident I have it.


410:53:42 A. Looks right to me.

510:53:44 Q. So again, you're telling Cooley that the hard

610:53:52 drive you earlier told him had been removed from the

710:53:55 Toughbook computer was one that you were confident you

810:53:58 still had; is that right?

910:54:00 A. I don't think that's -- those are definitely the

1010:54:11 words, but I don't think that's really the intent.

1110:54:14 Q. What was the intent?

1210:54:15 A. I think I'm trying to tell him that if I have --

1310:54:18 if I did take that laptop hard drive out, I would still

1410:54:21 have it. I think I'm clearly speculating.

1510:54:27 Q. At any time in the March 1 interview that you

1610:54:31 recall, did you tell Cooley you were uncertain whether

1710:54:35 you had removed the hard drive that was originally part

1810:54:39 of the Toughbook computer?

1910:54:41 A. Yeah, I think so.

2010:54:46 Q. You think you did in the March 1, 2012 interview?

2110:54:54 A. Without going through the whole transcript again,

2210:54:56 yeah, I think I'm basically -- I think I'm clearly

2310:55:00 speculating about the disposition of it or what exactly

2410:55:03 I did.

2510:55:04 Q. Were you speculating when you said "I'm confident


Page 61

110:55:08 I still have it"?

210:55:12 A. I was speculating about whether I have it or not.

310:55:16 I don't think I was speculating about -- rephrase that.

410:55:22 I'm clearly speculating whether or not I would

510:55:25 have taken it out.

610:55:26 Q. Were the words of your answer on Page 12 at the

710:55:30 bottom, Answer: I'm confident I have it, was that

810:55:36 speculation?

910:55:37 A. Those are my words.

1010:55:39 Q. Was it speculation?

1110:55:41 A. Again, I think I'm clearly saying that if I did

1210:55:45 remove that hard drive, I would have it.

1310:55:50 Q. Turn to Page 14.


1510:55:54 Q. Strike that question. It wasn't really a

1610:56:49 question, but I'm going to move on to something else.

1710:57:03 Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo has

1810:57:11 told them he terminated you for political reasons or

1910:57:17 first amendment-type reasons?

2010:57:22 A. I think I figured that one out for myself, but

2110:57:26 no.

2210:57:26 Q. Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo has

2310:57:33 said you were terminated because you were politically

2410:57:36 outspoken?

2510:57:37 A. Specifically for that reason, not that I'm aware


Page 62

110:57:45 of.

210:57:47 Q. Has anyone reported to you that Sheriff Elfo told

310:57:50 them that he terminated you because you were critical of

410:57:55 Inspector Cooley?

510:57:57 A. Specifically not that I'm aware of.

610:58:01 Q. Do you know of any witnesses who have said that

710:58:11 Sheriff Elfo has said anything or written anything that

810:58:15 supports your conclusions and claims as they're stated

910:58:21 in your complaint?

1010:58:22 A. Me.

1110:58:25 Q. Okay. Anyone else?

1210:58:26 A. Not that I'm aware of.

1310:58:30 Q. Who would you like to see come to trial and

1410:58:38 testify in support of you?

1510:58:42 A. Anybody that has information to offer that

1610:58:47 corroborates what I've reported.

1710:58:48 Q. And who would those people be?

1810:58:49 A. I think there is a list of people that -- I think

1910:58:56 it's just about everybody, actually, everybody that was

2010:58:59 at the SECTOR training, people that I worked with on

2110:59:04 shift, on that particular shift, grave shift. I mean,

2210:59:11 you talk to everybody pretty much at one time or

2310:59:14 another, so could be anybody.

2410:59:16 Q. And what did they say that is supportive of your

2510:59:19 claims?


Page 63

110:59:20 A. You'd have to ask them.

210:59:21 Q. You don't know?

310:59:22 A. I don't.

410:59:23 Q. You haven't talked to them?

510:59:24 A. I have not.

610:59:25 Q. Do you know of anyone who is supportive of your

710:59:34 claims in this lawsuit who has facts that support those

810:59:39 claims?

910:59:40 A. Steve Harris would be one for sure.

1010:59:43 Q. Okay.

1110:59:48 A. Depending on what facts you're talking about,

1210:59:51 that could be just about anybody.

1310:59:56 Q. Well, I earlier asked you about whether anyone

1410:59:59 has reported to you that they've had a conversation with

1511:00:03 Sheriff Elfo and he said anything negative about you

1611:00:10 that relates to the claims in this case.

1711:00:12 A. It would be speculation on my part.

1811:00:14 Q. Okay.

1911:00:14 You don't know of anyone that would say something

2011:00:16 like that?

2111:00:17 A. Oh, I do, but it's speculation on my part.

2211:00:20 Q. Who is that?

2311:00:21 A. Do you want me to speculate?

2411:00:25 Q. I want you to answer the question.

2511:00:27 A. I need to know whether you're asking me for what


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111:00:29 I know of independent recollection or what I know of my

211:00:33 own speculation.

311:00:34 Q. Well, I want to know who you know who has any

411:00:39 kind of factual information that is supportive of your

511:00:42 claims. I'm not asking you to guess that somebody might

611:00:48 have information, I'm asking you to tell me who has said

711:00:53 something supportive of your claims that is contrary to

811:01:01 legitimate reasons that Sheriff Elfo has given for your

911:01:05 termination.

1011:01:05 MS. BESCHEN: And just to clarify, are you

1111:01:07 asking people who have said things to Paul directly; is

1211:01:13 that correct?

1311:01:13 MR. KAMERRER: Well, not necessarily said,

1411:01:15 perhaps written or...

1511:01:19 A. If I understand what you're asking me, I would --

1611:01:22 I mean, I could go through the list of deputies if you

1711:01:25 want. I don't know what we're going to gain by that.

1811:01:28 But Keith Linderman, for example.

1911:01:28 THE REPORTER: Keith...?

2011:01:32 THE WITNESS: Linderman, L-I-N-D-E-R-M-A-N.

2111:01:35 Q. What does he say?

2211:01:36 A. Keith Linderman made the comment in one of the --

2311:01:43 whether it was an interview transcript or a summary

2411:01:48 memo, I don't remember where I read it, but apparently

2511:01:51 Keith Linderman made the comment that he remembers


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111:01:53 people joking and ribbing about people planting democrat

211:01:57 party files on my computer. Which I think would go to

311:02:01 corroborate that there was kind of a jovial joking

411:02:05 atmosphere going on about my computer.

511:02:07 Q. That would have been at the time of the SECTOR

611:02:09 training in 2012?

711:02:10 A. Yes.

811:02:12 Q. Anything else that is similar to that?

911:02:18 A. John Dahlquest -- John Dahlquest at the SECTOR

1011:02:26 training I asked him if he could look into installing

1111:02:30 some crime scene software that I couldn't install. And

1211:02:34 he I thought was pretty cordial about it and said that

1311:02:38 he could, that I would have to either call to make an

1411:02:44 appointment or something like that, but that he could do

1511:02:46 that. I thought that was supportive of my -- at least

1611:02:51 my contention that I wasn't behaving oddly, I wasn't

1711:02:56 being bizarre, I wasn't doing some of the things that

1811:02:58 had been claimed by Deputy Funk and Deputy Scott.

1911:03:04 Q. Did you know that Dahlquest would install

2011:03:08 software for any deputy?

2111:03:10 A. I don't know that I ever really thought about it

2211:03:13 that way. We had been told that the computers were

2311:03:17 locked down and we had been told that really don't try

2411:03:21 asking because they're just going to throw the stonewall

2511:03:26 up and they're going to tell you no. But I thought I


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111:03:29 knew John well enough that I could ask him. He said he

211:03:32 would.

311:03:33 Q. Is there anyone else who has information that's

411:03:37 factual in nature and is supportive of your claims?

511:03:43 A. I would imagine everybody at SECTOR class heard

611:03:48 Roger Funk's comments, very off color derogatory

711:03:53 comments about drunken Indians that I found highly

811:03:57 offensive that so no one bothered to look into.

911:04:01 Q. What did Roger Funk say in that regard?

1011:04:05 A. Roger -- we were talking about -- SECTOR -- back

1111:04:08 up several steps.

1211:04:10 SECTOR is a computerized ticketing system, so

1311:04:13 you're talking about traffic situations, you're talking

1411:04:15 about DUIs, criminal -- criminal traffic investigations,

1511:04:19 those sorts of things. Well, towards the later end of

1611:04:23 the class we get to talking about how SECTOR is used for

1711:04:26 DUIs and somebody makes a wisecrack about -- I don't

1811:04:30 think I actually heard what the first wisecrack was, but

1911:04:34 the -- it was something along the lines of drunken

2011:04:36 Indians on Lummi Reservation.

2111:04:36 THE REPORTER: On what reservation?

2211:04:36 THE WITNESS: Lummi Reservation.

2311:04:43 A. And Roger Funk quipped -- he quipped back and it

2411:04:48 was just the Hah-hah-hah-hah, well, it's a good thing

2511:04:52 you weren't in the last class, hah-hah-hah-hah, talking


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111:04:56 about comments that were being made about drunken

211:04:58 Indians. And it, frankly, pissed me off.

311:05:01 Q. Whose comments were -- who was Funk's -- who were

411:05:09 Funk's comments directed to?

511:05:15 A. I don't know. He's in front of the class.

611:05:17 Q. Was he speaking to you?

711:05:19 A. He wasn't speaking directly to me, that I'm aware

811:05:22 of.

911:05:22 Q. Steve Harris, what does he say that is factually

1011:05:31 supportive of your claims?

1111:05:32 A. That I was very supportive of him during the

1211:05:36 campaign, 2011 campaign, that I was very vocal about my

1311:05:46 -- my right to political speech, that I had a lot of

1411:05:51 things to say in regards to various claims that had been

1511:05:54 made by members of the campaign at that time. Just in

1611:06:02 general a lot of corroborating points on how the

1711:06:07 election cycle went and who I supported and why I

1811:06:11 supported them.

1911:06:12 Q. Did Harris ever tell you that your support for

2011:06:15 him was detrimental to his campaign?

2111:06:18 A. No.

2211:06:20 Q. You realize that in the last election cycle that

2311:06:26 Sheriff Elfo received 75 percent of the votes of the

2411:06:30 County?

2511:06:30 A. I'm aware of that.


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111:06:32 Q. And he received 80 percent of the deputies who

211:06:36 endorsed him as a candidate?

311:06:38 A. I am aware of that. I am also aware that about

411:06:42 six months prior to that most of the deputies were not

511:06:47 supportive.

611:06:47 Q. And in the ensuing six months you were actively

711:06:51 blogging your opposition to Sheriff Elfo?

811:06:56 MS. BESCHEN: Is that a question?

911:06:58 Q. Is that right?

1011:07:00 A. Depends on how you define "actively blogging."

1111:07:06 Commenting, certainly.

1211:07:07 Q. And your comments were always negative about

1311:07:10 Sheriff Elfo, weren't they?

1411:07:11 A. I don't know that I agree with that.

1511:07:15 Q. You depicted him in various cartoons, didn't you?

1611:07:19 A. I thought that was funny.

1711:07:21 Q. And you depicted him as a cartoon character with

1811:07:32 the words "corrupt" and "millions missing" implying that

1911:07:41 he was somehow responsible for jail funding issues; is

2011:07:45 that right?

2111:07:45 A. Those millions still are missing.

2211:07:47 Q. Is that right?

2311:07:48 A. I believe so, yes.

2411:07:50 Q. That you depicted Sheriff Elfo in that fashion?

2511:07:52 A. I don't think I said anything that didn't have a


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111:08:00 basis in fact.

211:08:01 Q. How has Sheriff Elfo committed corruption?

311:08:05 A. My situation is a perfect example. A guy that

411:08:09 stands up for the right things, tries do the right

511:08:11 things for the right reasons winds up becoming a target

611:08:15 for elimination.

711:08:17 Q. Is that it?

811:08:18 A. I think --

911:08:19 Q. Is there anything else that you consider to be

1011:08:21 corruption?

1111:08:22 A. There was a significant investigation involving

1211:08:26 electronic home monitoring fraud that I thought we had

1311:08:31 done a pretty good job on. It was a joint -- kind of a

1411:08:36 joint investigation between our office at that time and

1511:08:40 the FBI, and I felt like we were doing a really, really

1611:08:46 good job on that. And then boom, like that, the carpet

1711:08:50 is pulled out from under me, the case made to go away

1811:08:53 and nobody will talk about it from that point on, and I

1911:08:56 can only presume that that came from the top.

2011:08:59 Q. Did you ever turn in a report relating to the

2111:09:03 electronic home monitoring investigation where you

2211:09:08 recommended the prosecution of any particular persons?

2311:09:10 A. I never turned in a finalized report, but I did

2411:09:15 have a running narrative of the -- my involvement in

2511:09:18 that case.


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111:09:18 Q. Did you identify any people as -- that you

211:09:22 thought there was probable cause to prosecute for a

311:09:25 crime?

411:09:25 A. I did.

511:09:25 Q. Who?

611:09:26 A. Some of the names escape me. It's been -- it's

711:09:34 been a few years. But Angie Luke was one.

811:09:37 Q. And who is that?

911:09:38 A. Our local bail bond outfit lady.

1011:09:41 Q. What crime did you think she had commented?

1111:09:44 A. She fraudulently submitted affidavits of

1211:09:47 compliance to the courts.

1311:09:50 Q. Did you make a recommendation that she be

1411:09:52 prosecuted?

1511:09:53 A. Well, we never got to that point. That's my

1611:09:56 point. The case was made to go away. It just

1711:09:58 disappeared.

1811:09:59 Q. Actually, it was assumed by the FBI, wasn't it?

1911:10:01 A. That's the story that's being told. That's not

2011:10:04 the truth.

2111:10:04 Q. Why is that not true?

2211:10:06 A. Because of in -- in my involvement with Jim

2311:10:12 Powers, who was the FBI agent assigned at the time, we

2411:10:15 had a concurrent investigation for probably five, six

2511:10:19 months, and it culminated in essentially -- over a

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111:10:26 period of time it was -- it was the typical

211:10:28 investigative steps of checking information, sourcing

311:10:32 information, researching databases, acquiring evidence,

411:10:38 the typical things that do you in an investigation.

511:10:40 So we felt like we had got -- developed a pretty

611:10:44 good case. So the final conversation I recall was a

711:10:49 meeting between myself, Powers, and McFadden where we

811:10:54 started formulating a plan to put together a search

911:10:59 warrant. We were going to make some arrests, and we

1011:11:02 were going to seize some records from one of the bail

1111:11:05 bond outfits. And in the middle of that, I don't

1211:11:08 know -- to this day I don't know what happened. In the

1311:11:11 middle of that, the whole thing is made to go away.

1411:11:13 Q. Who was it that you were going to issue the

1511:11:16 search warrants for?

1611:11:18 A. Again, I -- names are -- there was a list of

1711:11:23 outfits that we felt had been pretty adequately

1811:11:27 demonstrated to have falsified affidavits to the court.

1911:11:31 I believe All City Bail was one. And Angie Luke, I

2011:11:41 don't remember whether it was the business name or

2111:11:43 whether it was her personally. I think it was maybe the

2211:11:46 business name.

2311:11:46 Q. And what's that business name?

2411:11:48 A. Angie's Bail Bonds, I believe, yeah.

2511:11:58 Q. Anyone else?

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111:12:00 A. I know Sheila Ensley was a big player in that.

211:12:04 Q. Were there search warrants prepared for Sheila?

311:12:11 A. No. That was supposed to be the next step. That

411:12:15 was supposed to be the next step.

511:12:16 Q. Anyone else?

611:12:17 A. Last name Cavanaugh. I don't recall the first

711:12:25 name: Angie Cavanaugh, maybe. We had -- we had a list

811:12:32 of people who had demonstratively submitted falsified

911:12:38 affidavits to the courts and we could prove that with

1011:12:42 records that had been acquired from behavioral

1111:12:44 interventions. So that's -- that's how we came up with

1211:12:50 the list of who to -- who to start with arrests on.

1311:12:54 Q. So right now, we've got Angie Luke, Angie's Bail

1411:13:00 Bonds --

1511:13:01 A. Anyway, the point --

1611:13:02 Q. Let me finish my question.

1711:13:03 A. I'm sorry.

1811:13:04 Q. All City Bail, Sheila Lee [sic], and Angie

1911:13:09 Cavanaugh; is there anyone else who you were prepared to

2011:13:12 issue search warrants for?

2111:13:16 A. Off the top, I don't recall.

2211:13:18 Q. Did you make application to any court for

2311:13:21 issuance of a search warrant?

2411:13:23 A. We did not. I did not, no.

2511:13:25 Q. Did you take the case to the prosecuting attorney

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111:13:28 and recommend issuance of search warrants?

211:13:31 A. That was the next step.

311:13:32 Q. You didn't do that, though. You didn't get to

411:13:35 that phase?

511:13:36 A. There had been communication with the prosecuting

611:13:39 attorney up to that point.

711:13:40 Q. Who in the prosecuting attorney's office?

811:13:42 A. I spoke to David McEachran myself.

911:13:42 THE REPORTER: "I spoke to"...?

1011:13:50 THE WITNESS: David McEachran.

1111:13:50 Q. What did you tell him?

1211:13:53 A. Just the -- the outline of what it was that we

1311:14:00 were working on and what the reason was for and

1411:14:04 answering questions because he had, I recall a lot of

1511:14:07 questions about that.

1611:14:08 Q. What did he tell you he was going to do?

1711:14:11 A. I don't remember.

1811:14:13 Q. Were all of these people that you've identified

1911:14:19 or companies located in Whatcom County?

2011:14:22 A. They were.

2111:14:23 Q. What was the nature of the falsity of the

2211:14:30 affidavits that you're referring to?

2311:14:33 A. What was happening was inside circle people, for

2411:14:41 lack of a better description, were being granted a means

2511:14:47 to avoid accountability for electronic home monitoring.


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111:14:53 Q. And who were the people who were giving this

211:14:58 dispensation to those folks?

311:15:00 A. That seemed to be the crux of the investigation.

411:15:03 It seemed to focus on, at least from the local county

511:15:08 perspective, it seemed to focus on maybe one or two bail

611:15:13 bond outfits.

711:15:13 Q. Had any Whatcom County officials participated in

811:15:21 false affidavits or giving any dispensations to people

911:15:26 who were supposed to be on electronic home monitoring?

1011:15:30 A. Not that I'm aware of.

1111:15:32 Q. Didn't the FBI officer, Jim Powers, tell you that

1211:15:49 he thought there was not a case for prosecution?

1311:15:52 A. No, he absolutely did not tell me that. He said

1411:15:55 just the opposite.

1511:15:58 Q. Why then didn't he obtain search warrants

1611:16:02 himself?

1711:16:03 A. You would have to ask him that. I don't know.

1811:16:05 Q. As a deputy sheriff, did you have a duty to

1911:16:16 report crimes that you had evidence of?

2011:16:18 A. I did. Yes.

2111:16:21 Q. So that's a "yes"?

2211:16:22 A. That's a yes.

2311:16:23 Q. Do you have any quarrel with the principle that

2411:16:28 honesty and credibility are important characteristics

2511:16:31 for a deputy sheriff to have?


Page 75

111:16:32 A. I don't and I live by it.

211:16:34 Q. And do you agree that the deputy sheriff has to

311:16:38 be regarded as honest and credible by a variety of

411:16:43 people, coworkers, supervisors, prosecutors, judges?

511:16:49 A. Yes, but not in a politically correct sense.

611:16:53 Q. Do you agree that a deputy sheriff has to be

711:16:57 regarded by the public as fair and impartial?

811:17:03 A. I agree with that.

911:17:04 Q. Do you agree that if a deputy sheriff is caught

1011:17:10 lying about duty-related matters that this would have a

1111:17:14 negative effect on his career?

1211:17:16 A. I agree.

1311:17:17 Q. And is that appropriate?

1411:17:18 A. Is it appropriate for a deputy sheriff caught

1511:17:22 lying?

1611:17:22 Q. Yes.

1711:17:23 A. To suffer negative effects?

1811:17:25 Q. To suffer negative consequences?

1911:17:27 A. Absolutely I agree with that.

2011:17:29 Q. Do you agree that deputy sheriffs must not

2111:17:31 discriminate against people on the basis of their race,

2211:17:34 religion, nationality, characteristics like that?

2311:17:38 A. In a -- in an on-duty application of law or

2411:17:44 policy, yes, I absolutely do agree with that. I don't

2511:17:48 think that means a person should dump their opinions,


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111:17:51 but on-duty is probably not the place for that.

211:17:54 Q. Well, if a deputy sheriff publicly expresses

311:17:57 opinions suggesting he has a bias against certain people

411:18:01 based on their race, religion, nationality and other

511:18:04 characteristics of that sort, would that be legitimate

611:18:08 for the deputy's employer to be concerned about?

711:18:13 A. If it involves violence, if it involves harm, if

811:18:21 it involves public safety, yes, I do think so.

911:18:26 Q. If it involves insults, derogatory remarks about

1011:18:32 a person because of his or her race, religion,

1111:18:36 nationality, is that legitimate to be concerned about?


1311:18:43 vague. Is that legitimate for who to be concerned

1411:18:45 about?

1511:18:46 Q. For the supervisors of that deputy sheriff, the

1611:18:48 employer?

1711:18:50 A. If that is in fact the case and not a

1811:18:54 misperception, I would agree with that.

1911:18:57 Q. Do you think that the need for a deputy sheriff

2011:19:01 to maintain his credibility places any limits on what

2111:19:08 that deputy ought to be saying or publishing publicly?

2211:19:13 A. I want to make sure I understand what you're

2311:19:21 asking me. If...

2411:19:25 MS. BESCHEN: Do you want to have him repeat

2511:19:27 the question?


Page 77

111:19:28 THE WITNESS: Yes, please.

211:19:28 Q. I'll read it.

311:19:30 Do you think that the need for a deputy sheriff

411:19:32 to maintain his credibility places any limits on what

511:19:38 that deputy ought to be saying or publishing publicly?

611:19:45 A. If you mean the true definition of credibility

711:19:49 and not some distorted politically correct version, yes,

811:19:53 I would agree with that.

911:19:55 Q. Well, credibility and honesty are synonymous,

1011:19:59 aren't they?

1111:20:02 A. I think they're closely related.

1211:20:05 Q. And credibility also relates to fairness, doesn't

1311:20:10 it?

1411:20:12 A. I think it relates to a lot of things.

1511:20:14 Q. Well, fairness is one of them?

1611:20:16 A. I would agree with that.

1711:20:22 Q. Okay.

1811:20:22 Should a deputy sheriff deliver law enforcement

1911:20:26 services differently to a Christian versus a Muslim?

2011:20:30 A. No, should not.

2111:20:33 Q. Do you understand that citizens would

2211:20:36 legitimately be concerned about the fairness of a deputy

2311:20:40 sheriff who expresses negative opinions about people of

2411:20:43 a particular religion?

2511:20:45 A. I can see how it can be twisted that way.


Page 78

111:20:49 Q. When you published a picture of a burning Koran

211:21:03 and said you won't be apologizing either to the

311:21:09 inscription on that Koran that was negative in an

411:21:17 extreme way about Muslims, do you think that was the

511:21:20 kind of thing that ought to cause people to question

611:21:25 your fairness?

711:21:27 A. No, I don't.

811:21:28 Q. Why not?

911:21:29 A. Why should it?

1011:21:33 MS. BESCHEN: I object as to vague. Who --

1111:21:35 Q. That's -- I would like you to answer the

1211:21:38 question. I'm not here to answer questions.

1311:21:42 Tell me what you think.

1411:21:43 A. I think the point is a -- it's a political point

1511:21:47 that is a valid point. I would even go so far as to say

1611:22:05 it's not just valid. Probably one of the more important

1711:22:09 things to be considered at this particular point in our

1811:22:12 history.

1911:22:16 Q. And what do you mean it ought to be considered?

2011:22:26 A. I think it's a simple fact that it's a very

2111:22:31 one-sided discussion and it's a very politically --

2211:22:38 political correctness driven agenda when Christians are

2311:22:43 insulted they don't go out and saw people's heads off.

2411:22:49 Q. But all Muslims do, is that what you're saying?

2511:22:54 A. I don't think that's what that mean said.

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111:22:57 Q. So --

211:23:01 A. It was a mean that I forwarded.

311:23:01 Q. I'm sorry?

411:23:06 A. It was a mean. A mean, a Facebook picture, like

511:23:08 somebody else shares it and you click share and it

611:23:11 shares with other people.

711:23:11 Q. Okay.

811:23:12 A. So I didn't originate it. I just happened to

911:23:15 find it relevant.

1011:23:18 Q. You agree with the inscription on this

1111:23:22 photograph, "I pledge resistance to the insane religion

1211:23:26 of Islam, to the lies upon which it stands and its

1311:23:32 endless war of Allah's hate with intolerance and tyranny

1411:23:37 for all"?

1511:23:38 Do you --

1611:23:38 A. I disagree fundamentally with people that believe

1711:23:42 I should be killed because of what I believe.

1811:23:46 MS. BESCHEN: Slow down and make sure he

1911:23:48 finishes his question.

2011:23:50 Q. Well, the comment, I guess we'd better mark this

2111:23:53 as an exhibit here, so let me just do that.


2311:24:12 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 8.

2411:24:19 Just a second, I need to look at this and make sure it's

2511:24:22 not my copy.


Page 80

111:24:24 MS. BESCHEN: Thank you.

211:24:25 MR. KAMERRER: Thank you.

311:24:27 Q. Now, is this a multipage copy of materials that

411:24:35 you have posted on Facebook?

511:24:41 A. Appears to be, yeah.

611:24:42 MS. BESCHEN: Go ahead and take your time

711:24:45 and -- to look through it.

811:24:46 Q. What do you call this? Is it a blog or a

911:24:49 Facebook page or what's the name for this?

1011:24:53 A. Facebook is social media.

1111:25:01 Q. Okay.

1211:25:02 And you regularly publish comments about a

1311:25:10 variety of things, including your opinions about the

1411:25:18 Muslim religion on Facebook; is that right?

1511:25:21 A. Well, it's all my opinion.

1611:25:27 Q. Is that a "yes"?

1711:25:30 A. It -- maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but it sounds

1811:25:37 like you're asking if all I ever post about are things

1911:25:41 about the Muslim religion?

2011:25:43 Q. No, that's not what I'm saying.

2111:25:46 A. But you specifically --

2211:25:49 Q. That's included in what you publish?

2311:25:52 A. Yes.

2411:25:57 Q. And so turning to Page 15 of that 20-page

2511:26:12 exhibit, would you agree that things that are written


Page 81

111:26:18 immediately following your name are things that you

211:26:21 wrote?

311:26:24 A. If you're asking if I wrote that, yes, I did.

411:26:27 Q. So it says: Paul Murphy shared Louise Williams'

511:26:32 photo, and it says Saturday, and then the next words are

611:26:35 "I won't be apologizing either."

711:26:39 Are those your -- your words, the "I won't be

811:26:42 apologizing either"?

911:26:43 A. They are.

1011:26:44 Q. And so you were referring to the photograph below

1111:26:49 that of a burning Koran with the phrase of: I pledge

1211:26:55 resistance to the insane religion of Islam to the lies

1311:26:59 upon which it stands and it's endless war of Allah's

1411:27:03 hate with intolerance and tyranny for all.

1511:27:06 That's what you were endorsing with your "I won't

1611:27:10 be apologizing either" comment; is that right?

1711:27:13 A. I don't agree with your choice of words, no.

1811:27:16 Q. How would you characterize your words --

1911:27:16 A. I wouldn't call it --

2011:27:21 Q. -- referring to that?

2111:27:21 A. I don't think it's an endorsement. I think it's

2211:27:26 me saying I don't have anything to apologize for.

2311:27:33 Q. Do you think that a person of the Muslim faith

2411:27:37 seeing that would think that Deputy Sheriff Paul Murphy

2511:27:43 is a fair and impartial person?


Page 82

111:27:45 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; calls for

211:27:49 speculation.

311:27:49 A. I think -- it's the -- the asking of the

411:28:06 questions. Can I ask you to rephrase that, please?

511:28:10 Q. Do you think a person of the Muslim faith seeing

611:28:19 that would think that Deputy Sheriff Paul Murphy is a

711:28:23 fair and impartial person?

811:28:25 MS. BESCHEN: Same objection.

911:28:30 A. Well, it's speculation, but I think they can --

1011:28:37 they're allowed to think whatever they want, but anybody

1111:28:40 that knows me knows that I'm a very fair and very

1211:28:43 unbiased and partial person.

1311:28:45 Q. Are you a believer in some religious faith?

1411:28:48 A. Absolutely I am.

1511:28:49 Q. And what is that?

1611:28:50 A. I am a Christian.

1711:28:51 Q. Would you be offended by someone who made a

1811:28:54 display of a burning Bible?

1911:28:55 A. I see it every day. I see something that's done

2011:28:59 to offend Christians every single day.

2111:29:01 Q. And it does offend you, doesn't it?

2211:29:03 A. Oh, well, I don't like it, but...

2311:29:03 Q. So that's -- that's an offense?

2411:29:06 A. They're allowed to say that. They're allowed to

2511:29:09 do that.


Page 83

111:29:10 Q. Wouldn't a Muslim person in Whatcom County think

211:29:14 the same of you for what's published on Page 15 of

311:29:21 Exhibit 8?

411:29:23 A. I would hope that they would give me the same

511:29:26 latitude that I give them.

611:29:27 Q. Which looks like it's about none.

711:29:30 A. I think they give me none.

811:29:33 Q. And you intend to do the same as to Muslim

911:29:36 people; is that right?

1011:29:37 A. No, that's not true. If a Muslim wanted to burn

1111:29:42 a Bible in front of me, then no, I wouldn't like it, but

1211:29:45 that's their right to free speech.

1311:29:47 Q. You have written or contributed to a number of

1411:29:51 web-based publications; is that correct?

1511:29:54 A. I have.

1611:29:55 Q. And they include something called Whatcom County

1711:30:00 Uncovered?

1811:30:00 A. Yes.

1911:30:01 Q. Is that something you created?

2011:30:04 A. Yes.

2111:30:05 Q. Another one called WCSD Ethics, did you create

2211:30:13 that?

2311:30:13 A. WCSD Ethics? I'm not sure what that means.

2411:30:21 Q. Well, I assume it means Whatcom County Sheriff's

2511:30:25 Department Ethics?


Page 84

111:30:26 A. Like a website or...?

211:30:28 Q. Yeah, or a Facebook page or whatever you call

311:30:32 these things?

411:30:38 MS. BESCHEN: Only answer what's in your

511:30:40 knowledge.

611:30:40 THE REPORTER: Can you speak up?

711:30:38 MS. BESCHEN: Only answer what's in your

811:30:40 knowledge.

911:30:45 Sorry.

1011:30:45 A. I mean, I probably used the word, but I don't

1111:30:48 recall a Facebook page entitled that.

1211:30:51 Q. Did you create the web-based publication called

1311:31:00 "Boot Bill Elfo"?

1411:31:01 A. I did.

1511:31:03 Q. And how about "Bill Elfo Scribe"?

1611:31:07 A. I did.

1711:31:08 Q. And how about the "Campaign to Unelect Bill

1811:31:13 Elfo"?

1911:31:13 A. It's all the same page, but those were name

2011:31:16 changes along the way.

2111:31:18 Q. Okay.

2211:31:20 Do you also publish materials on Ancestry.com?

2311:31:25 A. Occasionally, yes.

2411:31:27 Q. And something called Scribd, spelled S-C-R-I-B-D?

2511:31:33 A. A lot, yes.


Page 85

111:31:34 Q. How do you use Scribd?

211:31:37 A. I use it like a library of interesting things,

311:31:43 pertinent things that I want to keep or share.

411:31:45 Q. Do you have a membership of some sort to that?

511:31:50 A. No.

611:31:52 Q. It's a storage site?

711:31:53 A. It's a -- it's a social media thing with

811:32:01 followers and people I like or don't like, and people

911:32:05 can pick and choose as they see fit.

1011:32:08 Q. And you've published a number of accusatory and

1111:32:15 negative things about Sheriff Elfo on Scribd; is that

1211:32:20 right?

1311:32:20 A. I have never -- well -- that's your

1411:32:24 characterization. I have publish nothing but the truth.



1711:32:40 Q. Over in the right-hand column there is an entry,

1811:32:51 "Paul Murphy shared The People's Cube's photo."

1911:32:57 Do you see that?

2011:32:59 A. I do.

2111:33:00 Q. And so The People's Cube must be some other site

2211:33:06 on the internet?

2311:33:07 A. The People's Cube is a -- it's actually one I

2411:33:12 think a lot of because it's very funny, it's a satirical

2511:33:16 look at communism.


Page 86

111:33:18 Q. And you have President and Mrs. Obama depicted

211:33:26 there; is that right?

311:33:27 A. I don't, but...

411:33:28 Q. You published it on your page?

511:33:30 A. I evidently clicked the share button.

611:33:35 Q. And you -- it's added to your Facebook page so

711:33:39 anyone who has access to that page which is unlimited?

811:33:42 A. I'm not disputing that anything on these pages is

911:33:45 anything but mine.

1011:33:46 Q. Okay.

1111:33:46 And so what -- what is your point of copying a

1211:33:53 photograph of Mrs. Obama that refers to her as the first

1311:33:58 lad of the US?

1411:34:00 A. I really don't even know how that came about. I

1511:34:07 don't actually remember seeing this, so I right off the

1611:34:12 top I don't know how it got there.

1711:34:13 Q. You're suggesting that Mrs. Obama has boyish

1811:34:18 figure, to put it as politely as possible?

1911:34:22 A. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm suggesting I

2011:34:25 found the name funny.

2111:34:26 Q. You thought it was funny?

2211:34:27 A. I thought it was funny.

2311:34:29 Q. And then the picture of Mr. Obama, President

2411:34:31 Obama is -- has the caption "The second lady of the" --

2511:34:36 and I assume it says US after that. It's cut off on


Page 87

111:34:41 this page. Is that your understanding?

211:34:45 A. Well, I don't know what's supposed to be there.

311:34:49 Q. You've heard the term the First Lady, haven't

411:34:55 you?

511:34:55 A. I have.

611:34:57 Q. And so your depiction of President Obama is

711:35:00 suggesting, what, that he's female in character?

811:35:04 A. It's The People Cube's depiction.

911:35:06 Q. What's your endorsement intended to say?

1011:35:10 A. The -- it doesn't say endorsement, it says

1111:35:10 "share."

1211:35:15 Q. Well, what was your sharing intended to convey?

1311:35:18 A. I thought it was funny.

1411:35:19 Q. Okay.

1511:35:20 So suggesting that the president is ladylike is

1611:35:24 in your opinion funny?

1711:35:25 A. You're looking at the same picture I'm seeing,

1811:35:29 right?

1911:35:31 Q. Page 15 -- excuse me, Page 6 of Exhibit 8.

2011:35:36 A. That's a very popular picture for a reason.

2111:35:40 Q. Why?

2211:35:40 A. Because it's a very feminine throw.

2311:35:46 Q. And so you're essentially mocking the President

2411:35:49 for being caught in a photograph that you think is a

2511:35:55 feminine throw of a baseball?


Page 88

111:35:57 A. I think it's humorous. And --

211:36:08 MS. BESCHEN: You need to...

311:36:11 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

411:36:26 Q. You're obviously quite opposed to President

511:36:30 Obama; is that correct?

611:36:32 A. I have a disagreement with the Marxist-Leninist

711:36:32 philosophy.

811:36:32 THE REPORTER: The Marxist...?

911:36:32 THE WITNESS: Leninist.

1011:36:42 Q. And you think that President Obama is communist;

1111:36:47 is that right?

1211:36:47 A. He has said it himself.

1311:36:50 Q. Do you also think that he is not a citizen of the

1411:37:02 United States who's eligible to be president?

1511:37:05 A. Am I missing something here?

1611:37:12 Q. I'm sorry, you want me to repeat the question?

1711:37:14 A. I'm trying to -- I think my lawsuit is against

1811:37:17 Bill Elfo and Whatcom County.

1911:37:22 Q. Go ahead and answer the question.

2011:37:24 MS. BESCHEN: Can you repeat the question?


2211:37:30 Q. Do you think that President Obama is not a

2311:37:33 citizen of the United States and eligible to be

2411:37:36 president?

2511:37:37 A. I think there is a significant degree of doubt as


Page 89

111:37:41 to what has been presented to this point, and the

211:37:46 question has not been answered at least not my

311:37:53 satisfaction.

411:37:54 Q. As of 2010 to 2012, how many functioning

511:38:33 computers did you personally own?

611:38:34 A. 2010 to 2012? 2010 to 2012. So I'm trying to

711:38:45 remember when my kids moved out. I think John was still

811:38:54 at home, so that's --

911:39:07 THE REPORTER: "So that's"...?

1011:39:07 THE WITNESS: Me thinking it through.

11 THE REPORTER: I know. I have to write even

12 when you...

13 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Sorry.

14 MS. BESCHEN: Go ahead and take your time

15 and think --

16 THE WITNESS: Let me think it through.

17 MS. BESCHEN: -- before you answer the

18 question.

1911:39:40 A. I can't be sure, three or four.

2011:39:42 Q. Three or four. And that includes your son's


2211:39:46 A. Yes.

2311:39:47 Q. How many office-issued computers did you have

2411:39:51 over that time, 2010 to 2012?

2511:39:54 A. Office-issued, as in work-related?


Page 90

111:40:00 Q. Yes.

211:40:01 A. One.

311:40:02 Q. Were all of these computers laptops?

411:40:08 A. No.

511:40:09 Q. How many were laptops besides your office-issued

611:40:13 computer?

711:40:13 A. I don't think any of them were.

811:40:15 Q. So you had one office-issued laptop computer and

911:40:23 the rest were desktop computers?

1011:40:25 A. Yes.

1111:40:26 Q. Are desktop computer hard drives compatible with

1211:40:30 laptop computers?

1311:40:33 A. I'm just catching myself and realizing I didn't

1411:40:36 -- I overlooked my own personal laptop that was in the

1511:40:39 shop.

1611:40:43 Q. Okay.

1711:40:43 So your three or four computers is four or five?

1811:40:47 A. Yeah, let's say four or five.

1911:40:49 Q. One of which was a laptop?

2011:40:51 A. Yes.

2111:40:52 Q. Same question: Are laptop hard drives compatible

2211:40:58 for installation in desktop computers?

2311:41:02 A. They are not.

2411:41:04 Q. And does the same apply the other direction,

2511:41:07 desktop computers are not compatible for use in laptop


Page 91

111:41:11 computers?

211:41:12 A. In general yes, but they can be made to work.

311:41:15 Q. If they're put in a drive like that and used

411:41:20 externally; is that right?

511:41:21 A. Correct.

611:41:22 Q. Okay.

711:41:26 Did you personally own any electronic equipment

811:41:30 that could be used to duplicate or clone computer hard

911:41:36 drives?

1011:41:37 A. It's nothing fancy just, yeah, software and a

1111:41:41 desktop computer. Yes.

1211:41:43 Q. Why didn't you trust the information technology

1311:41:52 or IT department people?

1411:41:54 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; assumes facts not

1511:41:56 in evidence.

1611:41:59 A. I don't -- I don't know that it's -- I wouldn't

1711:42:05 characterize it that way. And it probably comes from my

1811:42:12 training. My training is that if you don't have a need

1911:42:16 to know then you don't have access to it, period.

2011:42:19 There's no pejorative, there's no -- there's no

2111:42:22 insinuation as to trust or lack of trust. It's just you

2211:42:26 don't have the need to know so you don't access it. So

2311:42:31 I think that just follows through that if somebody

2411:42:35 doesn't really have need for that information, they

2511:42:37 shouldn't get it.


Page 92

111:42:41 Q. Turn to Exhibit 7, please and Page 15 of that

211:42:48 interview transcript.

311:42:57 A. Page 15?

411:42:58 Q. Yes.


611:43:06 Q. I'm going to go down to Line 665, I'm going to

711:43:12 start with your answer here, and I'll read it and then

811:43:17 I'll ask you a question.

911:43:18 Your answer begins, quote, I can, I can no

1011:43:25 longer, all right, I don't see any -- any way to get

1111:43:28 around this, so it's going to have to come up in

1211:43:31 discussion. I have data files that IT is not gonna

1311:43:37 access, no way, no how, they're not getting it, period.


1511:43:48 A. Yes.

1611:43:48 Q. And then Inspector Cooley asks, "And why is

1711:43:54 that?"

1811:43:54 And your answer is "Because they don't have

1911:43:58 the -- they don't have the need to know, number one,

2011:44:02 they don't have the authorization, number two."

2111:44:07 Have I correctly read your answer?

2211:44:09 A. Yes.

2311:44:10 Q. So you say that that is not a lack of trust, it's

2411:44:18 simply a lack of need to know and a lack of

2511:44:25 authorization; is that correct?


Page 93

111:44:28 A. Yes.

211:44:29 Q. So you did not have distrust for the IT people?

311:44:33 A. OH, I did.

411:44:34 Q. Why was that?

511:44:36 A. Because of some things that had transpired before

611:44:39 that -- before this time.

711:44:41 Q. What was it that had transpired?

811:44:43 A. We went through a kind of a heated period where

911:44:47 there was some disputes about a pawn reporting system

1011:44:52 and it got kind of heated at a couple points. I felt

1111:44:59 like I was being called stupid and ignorant without

1211:45:05 being actually called stupid and ignorant.

1311:45:07 Q. So you were offended by that?

1411:45:09 A. I was offended by their inference, yes. I mean,

1511:45:15 if I called Josh Nylander on the phone and said, Hey,

1611:45:18 Josh, the system is cracking up right now, and Josh

1711:45:20 says, I'm looking at it right now and it looks fine,

1811:45:24 he's telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.

1911:45:26 Q. So it was a personal type of disagreement that

2011:45:35 you had?

2111:45:35 A. I think that's fair.

2211:45:37 Q. Who were the people in IT that you did not trust?

2311:45:40 A. Trust is your word, not mine. I had a

2411:45:47 disagreement with -- really Josh Nylander is the only

2511:45:52 one I can think of having a disagreement with. I think


Page 94

111:45:54 I got along with everybody else pretty good.

211:45:58 Q. Was Josh Nylander involved in the migration in

311:46:04 September 2010?

411:46:05 A. Good question. I don't know. I don't know.

511:46:10 Q. Did anyone associated with the IT department do

611:46:25 anything that you thought was dishonest or damaging to

711:46:32 you?

811:46:34 A. I do.

911:46:35 Q. And what was that?

1011:46:36 A. Josh Nylander again. Josh -- I mean, I'll have

1111:46:45 to -- I know emails were sent, but I'll have to

1211:46:49 speculate a little bit as to the content, but it was

1311:46:54 along the lines of Detective Murphy has reported that

1411:46:58 there is a problem with pawnshop logins and I have

1511:47:03 checked it and that's not the case.

1611:47:06 So he reports to our administration that I'm

1711:47:10 essentially lying about making up that there is a

1811:47:12 problem with the pawn reporting system. So it got to a

1911:47:18 point where I actually started taking screen shots of

2011:47:21 the failures so that I could have a record of the

2111:47:24 failure so that when he would turn around and tell our

2211:47:27 administration that I was making it up, I would have the

2311:47:30 proof that, see, it was failing.

2411:47:34 Q. So you took a statement that something was not

2511:47:48 failing to be a claim that you were dishonest because


Page 95

111:47:56 you had said it was failing?

211:47:59 A. He was calling me a liar in so many words.

311:48:02 Q. Okay.

411:48:02 By saying it's not -- so by saying it was not

511:48:21 failing, that was a claim that you were dishonest; is


711:48:25 A. Essentially he was telling my bosses that I was

811:48:30 making things up and lying.

911:48:41 Q. That occurred when you were the patrol

1011:48:45 investigator?

1111:48:45 A. Yes.

1211:48:46 Q. And that was before you got the Toughbook


1411:48:50 A. Yeah, long before.

1511:48:54 Q. Okay.

1611:48:54 And it was certainly then before the September

1711:48:59 2010 migration event?

1811:49:01 A. Yes.

1911:49:02 Q. Was that feeling about Josh Nylander or the

2011:49:13 entire IT department the reason why you didn't want to

2111:49:18 turn in your computer for the migration in September

2211:49:22 2010?

2311:49:24 A. Why I didn't want to turn it in?




Page 96

111:49:31 Q. Go ahead.

211:49:36 A. Well, you're -- you're inferring that I didn't

311:49:40 want to turn it in. So I -- if I sidestep that, can I

411:49:44 answer your question?

511:49:45 Q. Well, did you disagree with turning in your

611:49:51 laptop computer for the 2010 migration?

711:49:54 A. I had concerns.

811:49:56 Q. Okay.

911:49:56 What were those concerns?

1011:49:58 A. Well, I really didn't know the full extent of why

1111:50:03 things were happening the way they were happened with

1211:50:06 Josh Nylander. I do know he was an application team

1311:50:10 supervisor, so he's sort of in a management, middle

1411:50:17 management position there, so I really don't know the

1511:50:20 extent of how far that would go. I was just being

1611:50:24 protective, that's all.

1711:50:26 Q. Did you know in advance of the migration event

1811:50:28 that it was going to occur? In other words, it wasn't a

1911:50:33 surprise?

2011:50:33 A. No, it was no surprise.

2111:50:35 Q. Did you know that as a result of the migration

2211:50:41 you would no longer be able to install programs that you

2311:50:46 wanted to install on your computer?

2411:50:49 A. Yes.

2511:50:50 Q. And that any installation of nonstandard programs


Page 97

111:50:55 would have to be done to your computer by the internet

211:51:01 per the information technology department?

311:51:04 A. Yes.

411:51:05 Q. And did you also know that as a result of the

511:51:09 migration, the IT department would have the ability to

611:51:14 access your computer remotely to either make corrections

711:51:18 or add things?

811:51:19 A. Yes.

911:51:20 Q. And you didn't like the notion that they could

1011:51:23 access your computer and see what was on it?

1111:51:28 A. I didn't like the idea that a prying eye with an

1211:51:35 IP point could look at investigative files whenever they

1311:51:39 wanted.

1411:51:40 Q. And a solution to that was to install a blank

1511:51:48 hard drive in your Toughbook computer and remove the

1611:51:55 original hard drive that contained all your private data

1711:52:00 before the migration; is that right?

1811:52:03 A. I suppose it could be seen that way.

1911:52:09 Q. Well, if you put a blank hard drive in the

2011:52:12 Toughbook computer, it doesn't have your private data on

2111:52:16 it, does it?

2211:52:17 A. If it's blank, it's blank.

2311:52:19 Q. So your answer is yes?

2411:52:21 A. If that's the question, yes.

2511:52:23 Q. And you wanted to protect your private data from


Page 98

111:52:28 the IT people, didn't you?

211:52:30 A. Sure.

311:52:30 Q. Isn't that why you pulled the original hard drive

411:52:35 out of that computer and put a different one into it?

511:52:39 MS. BESCHEN: Objection as to vague.

611:52:40 A. I don't think that's the case, no.

711:52:44 Q. Now, you told Cooley in the March 1, 2012

811:52:54 interview several times that you replaced the hard drive

911:52:58 in that computer. First you said it was because you

1011:53:02 wanted to improve the performance and later it was

1111:53:05 because you didn't want IT to have access to your

1211:53:09 private files.

1311:53:10 Do you recall that?

1411:53:11 A. I do.

1511:53:12 Q. Was that true?

1611:53:14 A. Well, you're presuming that it's mutually

1711:53:17 exclusive. It's not. They could both be true.

1811:53:22 Q. Okay.

1911:53:23 That's fine.

2011:53:23 But you told him that you replaced the hard drive

2111:53:27 for one or both of those reasons?

2211:53:31 A. I told him that my best recollection was that I

2311:53:35 upgraded hard drives at least two times up to that point

2411:53:39 because I needed more drive space.

2511:53:43 Q. So your intention was to upgrade the hard drive


Page 99

111:53:50 and protect your private data?

211:53:52 A. My intention was to upgrade my hard drive.

311:53:56 Q. In the process you protected your private data?

411:54:00 A. In the process I would protect the data.

511:54:02 Q. Now, a Toughbook laptop is different than most

611:54:08 other laptops, isn't it?

711:54:10 A. Yes.

811:54:12 Q. It has a lot of cushioning and heavy duty

911:54:17 components so that it can't easily be damaged; is that

1011:54:21 right?

1111:54:21 A. Yes.

1211:54:25 Q. One of the things that is heavily protected is

1311:54:28 the hard drive itself, isn't it?

1411:54:29 A. It's ruggedized, yes.

1511:54:31 Q. And it resides in the computer in a metal box,

1611:54:36 doesn't it?

1711:54:37 A. It does.

1811:54:37 Q. And it's a metal box that's about an inch deep

1911:54:41 and probably four or five inches long; is that right?

2011:54:45 A. Sounds about right.

2111:54:46 Q. Okay.

2211:54:46 And in order to remove the hard drive from that

2311:54:53 computer and put a new one into it, you have to pull out

2411:54:58 that metal box, don't you?

2511:55:00 A. Yes.


Page 100

111:55:02 Q. And then you have to disassemble that metal box

211:55:07 by unscrewing it and pulling apart the tabs and opening

311:55:13 the box; is that right?

411:55:14 A. Yes, mm-hm.

511:55:15 Q. Then once you open it, you have to peel off a

611:55:19 tape that holds the hard drive in, peel off foam

711:55:24 cushions, and then disconnect the hard drive, the actual

811:55:30 device like we see here --

911:55:32 A. Yes.

1011:55:33 Q. -- from the cable, and then reverse the process

1111:55:39 with the new hard drive; is that right?

1211:55:43 A. Yes.

1311:55:43 Q. You have the capability of doing that based on

1411:55:49 your training and experience?

1511:55:50 A. I do.

1611:55:51 Q. Did you buy a new metal case for a replacement

1711:56:03 hard drive for the Toughbook computer?

1811:56:05 A. I don't believe I did.

1911:56:07 Q. Did you use the same case and just put a new hard

2011:56:11 drive into that case?

2111:56:13 A. I don't remember whether I sent the hard drive

2211:56:19 back separate or whether I sent it back installed. I

2311:56:24 thought I had put a hard drive in there but I could be

2411:56:27 thinking about the middle -- the middle laptop from

2511:56:30 detectives. I just don't remember.


Page 101

111:56:32 Q. But in order to send the computer in for the

211:56:37 migration with the drive in it, you would have had to

311:56:46 reverse the process I just described and connect a new

411:56:51 hard drive into that metal box, replace the foam,

511:56:57 replace the screws, put it back in the Toughbook

611:57:01 computer box; is that right?

711:57:03 A. What are you asking me?

811:57:08 Q. In order to return the Toughbook computer with a

911:57:15 hard drive in it, you would have to do what I just

1011:57:18 described?

1111:57:19 A. To have a hard drive in it, yes, I would agree

1211:57:23 with that.

1311:57:24 Q. Did it have a hard drive in it when you returned

1411:57:27 it for the migration?

1511:57:28 A. I don't remember. I think so, but that's


1711:57:34 Q. When you took the original hard drive out, did

1811:57:39 you know what the size of the hard drive was?

1911:57:44 A. Again, I don't remember.

2011:57:46 Q. Did you know from any data sheets or invoice-type

2111:57:51 documents regarding relating to the purchase of those

2211:57:54 Toughbook computers what size hard drive came in them?

2311:58:00 A. At the time?

2411:58:01 Q. Yeah.

2511:58:02 A. No.


Page 102

111:58:03 Q. You've learned that since, haven't you?

211:58:05 A. Yes.

311:58:05 Q. And you know that all of those Toughbook

411:58:08 computers were ordered and invoiced with 80 gigabyte

511:58:12 hard drives; is that right?

611:58:14 A. I know that's what some of the information says.

711:58:17 I don't know that I would agree with it.

811:58:20 Q. Well, did you ever determine the size of the

911:58:23 original hard drive that was in your Toughbook computer?


1111:58:30 Q. When you got from Roff?

1211:58:33 A. I probably did look at it, but I just don't

1311:58:33 remember.

1411:58:36 Q. So in upgrading it, you would want to put in a

1511:58:38 hard drive that was greater capacity than 80 gigabytes,

1611:58:42 right?

1711:58:42 A. If you're presuming that it came with an 80, I

1811:58:46 agree with that.

1911:59:17 Q. In Exhibit 3 I want to direct your attention to

2011:59:20 Page 22.

2111:59:33 MS. BESCHEN: What exhibit did you say?

2211:59:34 MR. KAMERRER: Exhibit 3, it's the -- excuse

2311:59:38 me. I'm sorry, it's Exhibit 7. It's the March 1, 2012

2411:59:43 transcript. Actually, flip back to Page 21. I need to

2511:59:53 start there.


Page 103

111:59:56 Q. Have you got 21?

211:59:57 A. I do.

311:59:58 Q. Down near the bottom, Line 940, I'm going to read

412:00:04 this and then I'll ask you a question.

512:00:06 Question: Okay. I'm going to ask you again,

612:00:09 where was -- where is that information now?

712:00:14 Answer: The Intel information or what?

812:00:18 Then next page, Line 944.

912:00:24 Question: All of it.

1012:00:26 Answer: My -- my personal information?

1112:00:33 Question: Well, I'm talking about your

1212:00:35 investigations and all the files you don't want the

1312:00:40 County to see.

1412:00:41 Answer: It's safely stored.


1612:00:47 A. Appears to be.

1712:00:48 Q. Okay.

1812:00:48 Where was that personal information safely

1912:00:56 stored?

2012:00:56 A. What personal information?

2112:00:58 Q. The personal information you were referring to at

2212:01:02 this point in the interview?

2312:01:04 A. I think that's the point. He wouldn't define it.

2412:01:06 And I wasn't going to give it to him.

2512:01:08 Q. Where was it stored?


Page 104

112:01:09 A. Where was what stored?

212:01:11 Q. The personal information?

312:01:12 A. I think we're doing the same thing again.

412:01:21 Q. How so? Are you refusing to answer my question?

512:01:24 A. Not at all. I want you to define what you're

612:01:28 asking for.

712:01:28 Q. Well, you said the words "my personal

812:01:31 information." I'm just asking you to tell me where your

912:01:34 personal information that you were referring to was

1012:01:37 safely stored.

1112:01:38 A. All right. So my -- my son's second grade

1212:01:42 birthday party picture, do you want to know where that's

1312:01:45 at?

1412:01:45 Q. I want to know where the personal information

1512:01:48 that you were referring to in the interview with Cooley

1612:01:52 was safely stored as you said it?

1712:01:54 A. Well, I couldn't get him to define what it was he

1812:02:00 wanted.

1912:02:00 Q. That's not my question.

2012:02:02 A. Again, you're not defining what you're asking

2112:02:06 for. Do you want case reports?

2212:02:07 Q. Your personal information.

2312:02:08 A. Well, it's my personal information.

2412:02:10 Q. Where was it stored?

2512:02:11 A. What personal information?


Page 105

112:02:13 Q. The personal information you were referring to in

212:02:16 this interview.

312:02:20 A. I don't think I'm wrong to ask for a definition

412:02:24 of what it is that you want.

512:02:26 Q. Anything that you consider to be your personal

612:02:30 information that was safely stored.

712:02:34 A. I don't know if I'm overthinking this or what,

812:02:39 but...

912:02:39 MS. BESCHEN: I'm going to object. Your

1012:02:41 question seems to be assuming that there's one location

1112:02:44 for -- that there's one particular --

1212:02:44 MR. KAMERRER: Oh, it could be -- could be

1312:02:44 more than one.

1412:02:44 THE REPORTER: Hold on just one second.

1512:02:44 "One particular"...?

1612:02:48 MS. BESCHEN: -- amount of personal

1712:02:50 information that's stored in one location. I think

1812:02:52 Mr. Murphy maybe is having trouble answering that

1912:02:55 question because that's not the case.

2012:02:58 But if you go ahead and answer as you can.

2112:03:01 Q. If it's more than one place, that's fine. I want

2212:03:05 to know where it was stored.

2312:03:06 A. Well, information is information.

2412:03:09 Q. I just want to say something to you, Mr. Murphy.

2512:03:12 You're being video recorded.


Page 106

112:03:15 A. I understand that.

212:03:16 Q. And your evasiveness is going to be played for

312:03:20 the jury in this case. Is that really how you want to

412:03:23 portray yourself?

512:03:24 A. As long as it's understood that I'm not getting a

612:03:27 clear definition of what it is you're asking for.

712:03:29 Q. Well, I'm using your words, do you realize that?

812:03:31 A. I do.

912:03:32 Q. And you refer to "my personal information." Do

1012:03:37 you understand that terminology?

1112:03:39 A. I think I understand the way I meant it.

1212:03:42 Q. Okay, good.

1312:03:42 I want to know how you meant it and where it is

1412:03:45 safely stored?

1512:03:46 A. My -- my impression is that Steve Cooley was

1612:03:52 after something that he didn't want to define, and I

1712:03:55 didn't want to define that for him. I wanted him to ask

1812:04:00 me what it was he wanted. What I'm referring to would

1912:04:04 be things that I kept on the computer related to all

2012:04:10 sorts of topics.

2112:04:12 Q. Including the motorcycle gang information?

2212:04:15 A. Yes. Including --

2312:04:17 Q. That's law enforcement-related information, isn't

2412:04:20 it?

2512:04:20 A. That is.


Page 107

112:04:20 Q. And you used it in connection with your law

212:04:24 enforcement duties, didn't you?

312:04:25 A. I did.

412:04:26 Q. Did you ever turn that information over to the

512:04:32 prosecuting attorney who has a duty to make discovery to

612:04:36 those people when they were prosecuted for crimes in

712:04:39 Whatcom County?

812:04:40 A. Can you rephrase that question?

912:04:49 Q. I'm just going to read it back because I think

1012:04:59 it's clear. When we get there.

1112:05:17 (Discussion off the record.)

1212:05:17 Q. Did you ever turn that information over to the

1312:05:23 prosecuting attorney who has a duty to make discovery to

1412:05:26 those people when they were prosecuted for crimes in

1512:05:29 Whatcom County?

1612:05:30 MS. BESCHEN: I'm going to object as vague.

1712:05:33 A. I don't think there's any relevance between the

1812:05:37 two.

1912:05:38 Q. So you didn't turn it over to the prosecuting

2012:05:42 attorney so he could make discovery of that information;

2112:05:45 is that right?

2212:05:45 A. I don't think I was ever asked.

2312:05:48 Q. Well, you secured it, you removed it from your

2412:05:52 computer and you safely stored it somewhere that hid it

2512:05:58 from the discovery process, didn't you?


Page 108

112:06:00 A. No, I didn't.

212:06:02 MS. BESCHEN: It's 12:05.

312:06:04 Q. Did you ever produce it?

412:06:06 MR. KAMERRER: I'm sorry? Go ahead.

512:06:07 MS. BESCHEN: It's 12:05. Is there a point

612:06:10 that you -- a natural stopping point here?

712:06:10 MR. KAMERRER: I want an answer to this

812:06:12 question and this line of questioning before we take a

912:06:15 break.

1012:06:18 A. I need to hear the question again. We're going

1112:06:18 in circles and I --

1212:06:18 THE REPORTER: Hold -- wait. Hold it. One

1312:06:22 at a time.

1412:06:22 MS. BESCHEN: I also am not clear on what

1512:06:29 you're asking.

1612:06:30 A. I feel like we're just going in circles here and

1712:06:32 I'm, like, completely missing what it is you're after.

1812:06:35 Q. Well, we've already established that you didn't

1912:06:38 turn your private data over to the prosecutor to make

2012:06:43 discovery with respect to any of those motorcycle gang

2112:06:47 people who you've already said previously were

2212:06:50 prosecuted for crimes in Whatcom County, okay, fine. We

2312:06:54 know that.

2412:06:54 Now I want to just find out from you whether you

2512:06:59 recognized that you had some obligation to make


Page 109

112:07:05 discovery of that information in a criminal setting?

212:07:10 MS. BESCHEN: I object as to vague again.

312:07:12 What information specifically are you asking about?

412:07:14 MR. KAMERRER: His motorcycle gang

512:07:16 information that was part of his private information.

612:07:20 A. I think this might be answered by asking whether

712:07:26 you're after my own personal endeavor of my hobby

812:07:31 interest of studying motorcycle gangs or whether you are

912:07:35 asking for duty-related assigned motorcycle

1012:07:41 investigations.

1112:07:42 Q. Both.

1212:07:43 A. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm

1312:07:51 under any obligation to furnish what belongs to me.

1412:07:55 Q. Even though you used it in your law enforcement

1512:07:57 duties and even though those people were prosecuted for

1612:08:00 crimes in Whatcom County; is that right?



1912:08:05 A. A lot of the information comes from books, books

2012:08:08 that are publicly available on Amazon.

2112:08:12 Q. When you on Page 22 of the interview on March 1

2212:08:18 as referred to in Exhibit 7 said that your personal

2312:08:22 information was safely stored, where was the motorcycle

2412:08:27 gang information safely stored?

2512:08:31 A. In the broad category of motorcycle gangs, I had


Page 110

112:08:36 information stored on a flash drive, I had information

212:08:41 stored on a web hosting service, with secured access,

312:08:47 private access only to invited parties. I had some the

412:08:53 information that I shared with other motorcycle gang

512:08:58 investigators around the country. I may have put some

612:09:11 on a CD at some point to file away in case my computer

712:09:16 crashed. But I don't recall ever being asked to furnish

812:09:22 any discovery materials on anything related to

912:09:25 motorcycle gangs. The question was never posed.

1012:09:30 Q. You also had that information stored on the

1112:09:34 original hard drive taken out of the Toughbook computer,

1212:09:38 didn't you?

1312:09:40 A. The original hard drive taken out of the

1412:09:45 Toughbook computer? I would presume so, but that's

1512:09:48 speculation on my part.

1612:09:51 Q. That's where it had originally resided, isn't it?

1712:09:54 A. Originally as in first installed?

1812:09:59 Q. I don't know about first, second or any other

1912:10:02 number, but you had your --

2012:10:03 A. You said "originally."

2112:10:05 Q. -- motorcycle gang information stored on the

2212:10:09 Toughbook computer that was issued to you prior to the

2312:10:13 migration; is that right?

2412:10:15 A. That's true, but you qualified it by saying

2512:10:19 "originally." So I'm trying to understand what you mean


Page 111

112:10:23 by "originally."

212:10:24 Q. I think you're trying to evade my question, but

312:10:27 that's fine.

412:10:28 MR. KAMERRER: Why don't we take a break for

512:10:30 lunch.

612:10:30 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 12:10

712:10:33 p.m.



1013:16:56 at 1:16 p.m.

1113:17:02 Q. Mr. Murphy, you understand you're still under

1213:17:08 oath as at the beginning of the deposition?

1313:17:12 A. I do.

1413:17:12 Q. Okay. Thank you.

1513:17:13 After -- let's see. Did the personal information

1613:17:19 that you didn't want IT to see include materials that

1713:17:28 you had posted on Facebook or any of the other social

1813:17:32 media sites you used?

1913:17:34 A. By my definition, no, I don't care about that. I

2013:17:41 didn't those stuff -- those items.

2113:17:46 Q. Did you put -- or did you use your office-issued

2213:17:55 Toughbook computer to post materials on Facebook or any

2313:18:01 of the other social media sites you used?

2413:18:05 A. Probably.

2513:18:07 Q. So did you use it to write personal or political


Page 112

113:18:11 messages or blogs?

213:18:13 A. That I would never do. I probably would do an

313:18:18 occasional update with some innocuous thing, but I've

413:18:27 never -- I would never do my political stuff on duty, I

513:18:30 wouldn't do my -- anything that might be seen as

613:18:33 controversial I wouldn't do on duty.

713:18:35 Q. Off duty did you use your County Toughbook

813:18:38 computer to access Facebook or any of the other social

913:18:44 media sites you used?

1013:18:47 A. Probably.

1113:18:48 Q. Did you post information on those sites off duty?

1213:18:54 A. Probably.

1313:18:55 Q. Did you visit political websites like Rush

1413:19:03 Limbaugh and Mark Levin on your office computer?

1513:19:06 A. Every day.

1613:19:06 Q. On duty?

1713:19:08 A. Every day.

1813:19:09 Q. And off duty?

1913:19:11 A. Probably not with those two off duty because I

2013:19:19 have my own computers at home.

2113:19:29 Q. Did you access records like NCIC or other law

2213:19:35 enforcement data sites using the Toughbook computer off

2313:19:44 duty?

2413:19:44 A. Off duty, depends on how you define that, but it

2513:19:49 was for duty purposes, so I would only use it for duty


Page 113

113:19:53 purposes, even though I might not actually be on shift.

213:19:57 So if I was writing a report, for example, on, I don't

313:20:06 know, say my Sunday before going in the next night, I

413:20:09 might finish up a report.

513:20:16 Q. For your motorcycle gang studies, did you go to

613:20:34 law enforcement data sites to get information on the

713:20:40 gang members that you were interested in?

813:20:48 A. It's not clear to me what you're asking. For my

913:20:54 hobby endeavors?

1013:20:56 Q. Yeah, I called it motorcycle gang studies.

1113:20:59 A. My motorcycle gang studies?

1213:21:01 Q. Essentially I mean the same thing as your hobby

1313:21:05 interest?

1413:21:05 A. My research?

1513:21:06 Q. Research, yeah?

1613:21:09 A. I don't really know where you would go to look

1713:21:12 for something like that in the first place, so I guess

1813:21:15 no.

1913:21:15 Q. Well, for example, if you identified a particular

2013:21:20 person as a motorcycle gang member, would you use their

2113:21:27 identity information to go to a law enforcement data

2213:21:30 site to get information about them, such as conviction

2313:21:34 data, other information that's available on those sites?

2413:21:40 A. So like the Washington access system or NCIC --

2513:21:40 Q. Yes.


Page 114

113:21:46 A. -- or I-520?

213:21:48 Q. Yes.

313:21:48 A. Yes.

413:21:50 Q. So you enhanced your hobby-like research with

513:21:57 official information from those law enforcement data

613:22:00 sites; is that right?

713:22:01 A. Enhanced it? No, I really tried to keep the two

813:22:12 separate, but I suppose there is probably some overlap

913:22:14 between the two.

1013:22:15 Q. Yeah, maybe I used the wrong word by saying

1113:22:18 "enhanced" and I should have just said learned

1213:22:22 information about those individuals that you had

1313:22:24 identified as motorcycle gang members.

1413:22:27 Did you use law enforcement data sites to learn

1513:22:31 more information about those people?

1613:22:32 A. Probably.

1713:22:38 Q. How would you access websites like Rush Limbaugh

1813:22:45 and Mark Levin on duty and not interfere with your

1913:22:49 official duties?

2013:22:50 A. Mainly just for the show audios. Mark Levin, for

2113:22:55 example, he has a daily audio feed that you open up your

2213:23:01 browser and you click on the daily show, basically, so

2313:23:05 while you're out patrolling around you push the play

2413:23:08 button and instead of listening to music, I listened to

2513:23:12 Mark Levin.


Page 115

113:23:13 Q. I see, okay.

213:23:16 Did you ever post a photograph of yourself on any

313:23:26 social media site where you were identifiable as a

413:23:31 Whatcom County deputy sheriff?

513:23:35 A. Up to this date? Yes.

613:23:39 Q. Well, how about up to the date you were

713:23:44 terminated?

813:23:49 A. Possibly.

913:23:49 Q. Did you also post a photograph that had been

1013:23:54 Photoshopped to show President Obama in the back of a

1113:23:59 patrol car behind the cage?

1213:24:01 A. I did post that because a friend actually made

1313:24:05 that and sent it to me. I thought it was kind of

1413:24:10 humorous.

1513:24:12 Q. Was that posted to Facebook?

1613:24:14 A. I believe so.

1713:24:15 Q. Did you later take that down?

1813:24:17 A. No. It should still be there.

1913:24:20 Q. Did you ever have any concern that since you were

2013:24:46 identifiable as a Whatcom County deputy sheriff on your

2113:24:51 Facebook page that posting photographs like the Obama in

2213:24:59 the back seat of a patrol car behind the cage was going

2313:25:02 to reflect poorly on deputy sheriffs?

2413:25:05 A. I don't think there was a connection to the

2513:25:07 Whatcom County Sheriff's office.


Page 116

113:25:11 Q. But somewhere some -- on that page, under Mark --

213:25:15 or Paul Murphy, you could find information, including

313:25:20 photographs, that showed you as a Whatcom County deputy

413:25:22 sheriff?

513:25:22 A. Well, you can now. I don't think you could then.

613:25:27 Q. And by "then," you mean before you were

713:25:30 terminated?

813:25:31 A. Yes.

913:25:31 Q. Are you trying to bring discredit on the Whatcom

1013:25:39 County Sheriff's Office by posting your identity as a

1113:25:43 former deputy sheriff?

1213:25:45 A. No, I'm actually proud of it. I think I served

1313:25:51 faithfully and honorably for 11 years.

1413:25:59 Q. Were some of the photographs that you posted on

1513:26:02 Facebook depicting you in uniform near a sheriff's

1613:26:09 office car, patrol car?

1713:26:13 A. Definitely now. Then, I don't know. I don't

1813:26:20 think so.

1913:26:21 Q. Have you altered any of the dates of postings on

2013:26:25 Facebook from what automatically appears when you post

2113:26:30 something?

2213:26:31 A. If you can -- I didn't even know could you do

2313:26:34 that.

2413:26:34 Q. So you haven't?

2513:26:35 A. I haven't even looked for that.


Page 117

113:26:38 Q. So if we found a photograph depicting you in

213:26:41 uniform whether or not in proximity to a Whatcom County

313:26:46 patrol car and it was dated sometime before your

413:26:51 termination, that would indicate you're not correct

513:26:54 today in saying you didn't do that until after

613:26:57 termination?

713:26:57 MS. BESCHEN: I object as to vague. What

813:26:59 is -- do what? What is "do that"?

913:27:03 MR. KAMERRER: I think he understands the

1013:27:05 question. Thank you.

1113:27:06 A. Well, I find myself guessing a lot on what you're

1213:27:09 asking, so maybe I don't.

1313:27:12 Yes, if you found a photograph predating my

1413:27:17 termination, then, well, clearly you went looking for it

1513:27:22 because I don't think my -- my intent was never to link

1613:27:25 the two together. In fact, I thought I went out of my

1713:27:28 way to try to keep the two separate. But, I mean, if

1813:27:39 it's there, it's there.

1913:28:15 MR. KAMERRER: Are we at 9?

2013:28:17 THE REPORTER: Yes, sir, we are.



2313:28:39 Exhibit No. 9, do you recognize this as another set of

2413:28:47 documents that are from your Facebook page?

2513:28:51 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; vague as to what


Page 118

113:28:54 "your Facebook page" is.

213:29:02 A. I recognize this to be what looks like a series

313:29:08 of screen shots or a compiled history for the page of

413:29:15 which I am an admin and have posted to, yes.

513:29:18 Q. And it has a title and it's -- the title is Bill

613:29:27 Elfo Scribe?

713:29:27 A. Correct.

813:29:28 Q. Did you set this up?

913:29:29 A. I did.

1013:29:30 Q. And it had an earlier name, didn't it? What was

1113:29:35 that earlier name?

1213:29:36 A. Well, you mentioned three, but I think it's

1313:29:38 actually been through probably more like five or six

1413:29:41 because I just didn't know what to name it. Still

1513:29:44 don't. But I think it started off as something opposed

1613:29:54 to Bill Elfo and then it became Boot Bill Elfo and then

1713:29:59 it became something else, and so we're at the latest

1813:30:03 revision, Bill Elfo Scribe.

1913:30:09 Q. Okay.

2013:30:12 Are you the primary author of the postings on

2113:30:15 here?

2213:30:15 A. I think that's accurate, yes.

2313:30:19 Q. Wherever there is the title Bill Elfo Scribe and

2413:30:29 then there's either a picture or text or something below

2513:30:32 that, is that your writing, your posting?


Page 119

113:30:37 MS. BESCHEN: I object. Vague. Is there a

213:30:39 specific one that you're talking about or are you

313:30:41 talking about all of them in general?

413:30:44 MR. KAMERRER: I'm talking about all of

513:30:45 them.

613:30:45 A. It sounds like you're asking me who has posting

713:30:45 rights.

813:30:48 Q. No. I'm just saying when it says "Bill Elfo

913:30:51 Scribe," is the text or photograph below that something

1013:30:55 you posted?

1113:30:57 A. Could be anybody that is an admin on the page.

1213:31:00 Q. Who besides yourself is an admin?

1313:31:04 A. Let's see. Me obviously, my wife, Lori, I

1413:31:13 believe my daughter is still an admin, there was a

1513:31:20 possibly still Tara Pavone, I think a Trisha -- drawing

1613:31:31 a blank on her last name -- Trisha -- another person

1713:31:36 named Trisha, I can't think of her last name at the

1813:31:40 moment.

1913:31:40 Q. Okay.

2013:31:42 A. And there might have been one more.

2113:31:44 Q. And what's your daughter's name?

2213:31:46 A. Rachelle.

2313:31:48 THE REPORTER: Rachelle?

2413:31:49 THE WITNESS: Yeah. R-A-C-H-E-L-L-E.

2513:31:53 Q. Murphy?

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113:31:54 A. Yes -- well, it's Kwiat now.

213:31:56 Q. How do you spell that?

313:31:57 A. K-W-I-A-T. She's married.

413:32:02 Q. Could you spell Tara Pavone's name, last name?

513:32:11 A. P-A-V-O-N-E.

613:32:20 Q. How do you know Tara Pavone?

713:32:28 A. She's one of the more prolific, more -- probably

813:32:33 one of the more vocal people when it comes to things

913:32:36 like missing people, Mandy Stavik's case, the Mandy

1013:32:41 Stavik page -- actually, it's probably the Mandy Stavik

1113:32:45 page is where I first got to know her just from

1213:32:50 postings. Actually, I don't think I've ever met her

1313:32:54 face to face. It's just through postings.

1413:32:56 Q. Is she someone who has served time in the Whatcom

1513:33:01 County Jail?

1613:33:01 A. Couldn't tell you.

1713:33:03 Q. Do you know whether she has a criminal history?

1813:33:05 A. No idea.

1913:33:06 Q. How about Trisha, have you thought of what her

2013:33:09 last name is?

2113:33:10 A. It's on the tip of my tongue. It'll -- it'll

2213:33:14 come to me. Trisha...?

2313:33:32 Q. Why don't we move on. If you think of the name,

2413:33:35 let me know.

2513:33:36 A. Okay.

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113:33:36 Q. How do you know Trisha?

213:33:39 A. She was pretty active in some investigations that

313:33:45 were going on in the Acme Valley area with some overlap

413:33:48 of questions and interaction on the Mandy Stavik page

513:33:55 related to Mandy Stavik's homicide. She was -- she

613:34:03 is -- I want to say she headed up a block watch down

713:34:07 there, but I'm not sure about that.

813:34:08 Q. Do you know if she has criminal history?

913:34:11 A. No idea.

1013:34:12 Q. So you used the termed admin, do you mean

1113:34:18 administrator?

1213:34:19 A. Yes.

1313:34:21 Q. And a person who is an administrator, do they

1413:34:28 have authorization to post under the name Bill Elfo

1513:34:33 Scribe?

1613:34:33 A. Yes.

1713:34:42 Q. On the first page of Exhibit 9, under Bill Elfo

1813:34:51 Scribe, December 24 it says: Bill needs some help

1913:34:56 feeling festive. And then there is a cartoon below that

2013:35:00 that has Mr. -- Sheriff Elfo's photograph superimposed

2113:35:07 on it. Is that a posting you made?

2213:35:09 A. It is.

2313:35:10 Q. And actually if you go to that site and you click

2413:35:13 on that photograph, it actually plays a little ditty, a

2513:35:17 cartoon, a moving cartoon; is that right?

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113:35:21 A. It does.

213:35:22 Q. Is that something you created?

313:35:24 A. It's -- yes, it is.

413:35:26 Q. And I take it you regard that as appropriate

513:35:35 political commentary; is that right?

613:35:37 A. Humorous, if nothing else. I know some people

713:35:44 that got a kick out of it.

813:35:47 Q. People who are like-minded with you?

913:35:50 A. Depending on how you define it.

1013:36:00 Q. Turn to Page 9.


1213:36:11 Q. And I'm going to talk about photographs and texts

1313:36:19 that is posted on Page 9, 12, and 13. And I'm referring

1413:36:33 to these numbers that are in the lower right of these

1513:36:37 pages --

1613:36:38 A. Okay.

1713:36:39 Q. -- because some of these have been expanded and

1813:36:43 aren't necessarily as numbered on Facebook. The first

1913:36:51 question has to do with Page 9, under Bill Elfo Scribe

2013:36:58 March 14. Did you post that text and photographs?

2113:37:01 A. I did.

2213:37:02 Q. And it appears you are focusing on somebody named

2313:37:09 Patty Rohweder; is that right?

2413:37:15 A. Yeah, that's probably a fair assessment.

2513:37:17 Q. Where did you get this photograph that looks like


Page 123

113:37:22 early '70s high school yearbook set of photographs?

213:37:27 A. It was a long process of checking and following

313:37:34 up leads that I don't even know if I could recount, just

413:37:38 many, many hours of digging.

513:37:40 Q. Why were you doing that digging?

613:37:43 A. Well, I guess doing my own background research on

713:37:48 Mr. Elfo is and where he comes from and a little bit

813:37:51 about his history which I'm sure he has done about me.

913:37:58 Q. Why was Patty Rohweder somebody who you

1013:38:03 associated with Sheriff Elfo?

1113:38:07 A. There is a former marriage to a Patricia Rohweder

1213:38:07 --

1313:38:07 THE REPORTER: Patricia Rohweder?

1413:38:20 THE WITNESS: Patricia Rohweder,

1513:38:24 R-O-W-E-D-E-R [sic].

1613:38:25 A. And it was Mr. Elfo's former marriage to Patricia

1713:38:32 Rohweder in Florida, some interesting aspects of that

1813:38:35 caught my eye which I thought probably needed to be

1913:38:40 vetted a little further.

2013:38:43 Q. First of all, I think the spelling of her name is

2113:38:47 R-O-H-W-E-D-E-R; is that correct?

2213:38:49 A. I think you're right, yeah.

2313:38:52 Q. What were the interesting aspects of that

2413:39:05 relationship that you were interested in?

2513:39:13 A. I haven't thought about it in some time so give


Page 124

113:39:17 me a second here to try to recall what it was that

213:39:22 was -- there was something -- something -- there was an

313:39:26 anomaly in the records that something that didn't

413:39:30 quite -- it didn't seem to be consistent with what I

513:39:34 thought I knew of Mr. Elfo, and I thought probably

613:39:39 something that needed to be vetted a little further.

713:39:43 But right off the top, it's not clear to me what that

813:39:46 was. I don't remember. I want to say it had to do with

913:39:51 a date or omission of a date somewhere, but right off

1013:39:56 the top, I don't remember.

1113:40:01 Q. On Page 12, you have a copy of -- well, first of

1213:40:13 all, let me ask, did you post what appears under Bill

1313:40:22 Elfo Scribe February 10?

1413:40:25 A. February 10?

1513:40:26 MS. BESCHEN: What page are you on?

1613:40:29 MR. KAMERRER: 12.

1713:40:38 A. Oh, yes.

1813:40:39 Q. Yes, you did post that?

1913:40:41 A. On Page 12. I did.

2013:40:43 Q. And Sheriff Elfo's photograph is also on that

2113:40:46 page next to Patricia Rohweder's photograph.

2213:40:54 Why did you juxtapose those photographs in that

2313:40:57 place?

2413:40:58 A. It's an interesting -- well, whatever the anomaly

2513:41:08 was aside, because I don't recall what that was, but


Page 125

113:41:12 when I found the photograph, I mean, it was an

213:41:18 obvious -- I mean, there's an obvious similarity there

313:41:21 that's hard to ignore.

413:41:23 Q. What does that similarity tell you?

513:41:25 A. By itself, nothing.

613:41:28 Q. What did you surmise it meant?

713:41:33 A. I think it meant it's interesting.

813:41:38 Q. Why -- why was this of interest to you?

913:41:45 A. I think it was a long way -- long roundabout

1013:41:49 way -- actually, okay, I do remember now what it was.

1113:41:53 I could not identify where this Patricia Rohweder

1213:41:57 was today. And I thought if ever a time came when Mrs.

1313:42:03 Rohweder or Mrs. Elfo or whoever she would identify

1413:42:07 herself as today needed to be interviewed, how would I

1513:42:12 go about getting in contact with her. Well, I don't

1613:42:17 know where she is, so that's what began the process.

1713:42:22 Q. Why would you be interested in interviewing her?

1813:42:26 A. My understanding is that there is research that

1913:42:31 goes into the background of anybody that's being pursued

2013:42:35 in a federal court action, so I was just --

2113:42:42 Q. Did you find divorce papers online?

2213:42:45 A. I did.

2313:42:45 Q. When were they divorced?

2413:42:49 A. '78, I believe.

2513:42:53 Q. Turn to Page 14.


Page 126


213:43:07 Q. You see at the top where it says: Bill Elfo

313:43:10 Scribe and, again, yes, there are some interesting

413:43:13 things, unexplained anomalies in his record trail.

513:43:17 Did you post that?

613:43:19 A. I did.

713:43:20 Q. And the last sentence of that posting says: Very

813:43:24 odd, considering they divorced in '83.


1013:43:30 A. I did.

1113:43:31 Q. So you must have found out that they were

1213:43:33 divorced in 1983?

1313:43:35 A. Apparently I did.

1413:43:37 Q. That was 30-some years ago. Why was a divorce 30

1513:43:43 years ago of interest to you relative to your lawsuit?

1613:43:53 A. Not really knowing where -- where this was going

1713:43:55 to wind up, I -- I just thought that it would be

1813:44:00 something worth knowing. If somebody needed to be sent

1913:44:04 to investigate or to make a phone call to Mrs. Rohweder

2013:44:07 to ask her what she remembers about whatever.

2113:44:12 Q. More than 30 years ago?

2213:44:14 A. Well --

2313:44:16 Q. Apparently so, isn't that right?

2413:44:18 A. There is no limitation on my background, is

2513:44:21 there?


Page 127

113:44:21 Q. Well, your answer is you were pursuing

213:44:23 information from someone who apparently terminated a

313:44:30 relationship with Sheriff Elfo 30-plus years ago, but I

413:44:35 take it you thought that was relevant; is that correct?

513:44:38 A. No, I don't think that is correct. I think

613:44:43 what's correct is to say that it was unknown.

713:44:46 Q. And you wanted to find out?

813:44:49 A. If somebody needed to ask her a question, how

913:44:52 would they reach her?

1013:44:53 Q. Did you ever locate her?

1113:44:54 A. No, I never did.

1213:45:00 Q. Did you ever attempt to call her?

1313:45:03 A. I wouldn't even know where to start. I don't

1413:45:08 know where she lives.

1513:45:10 Q. Down at the bottom of Page 14 after Bill Elfo

1613:45:19 Scribe, it says: She could be Patricia Ann Nemeth --

1713:45:25 N-E-M-E-T-H -- today. Did you post that?

1813:45:34 A. Where are you at again?

1913:45:35 Q. Bottom of Page 14.


2113:45:45 Yeah, it looks like I would have, but I'm not

2213:45:49 really understanding why the page printed out this way.

2313:45:57 It almost looks like that should be a comment to a post,

2413:46:01 but --

2513:46:03 Q. Turn to Page 17, please.


Page 128


213:46:14 Q. About two-thirds of the way down starts "Bill

313:46:21 Elfo Scribe," and it says: To be clear, this post is

413:46:23 not about advancing or denying that this may be -- may

513:46:27 or may not be Bill Elfo in his youth.


713:46:34 A. I think so.

813:46:36 Q. So -- and it goes on to say: However, the

913:46:40 physical similarities are hard to ignore.

1013:46:45 Did I read that correctly?

1113:46:47 A. Yes.

1213:46:50 Q. So were you attempting to imply that Sheriff Elfo

1313:46:57 was the transgendered former Patricia Rohweder?

1413:47:04 A. I'm simply saying that it's unknown. And I'm not

1513:47:09 saying that it is, I'm not saying that it's not. I'm

1613:47:12 saying that there's not enough information to say a lot

1713:47:14 about it.

1813:47:15 Q. So you were speculating in writing with

1913:47:18 photographs that Bill Elfo has -- is a transgendered

2013:47:25 male; is that right?


2213:47:27 Q. Isn't that what you're implying?

2313:47:29 A. I am implying that there is an obvious

2413:47:31 similarity.

2513:47:31 Q. Didn't other people respond to this criticizing


Page 129

113:47:37 you for jumping the shark I think was one of the

213:47:41 phrases?

313:47:43 A. If it's there, it's there. I don't know.

413:47:47 Q. I mean, how low are you willing to go to defame

513:47:53 Sheriff Elfo?

613:47:54 MS. BESCHEN: Objection. Is that a

713:47:55 question?

813:47:55 MR. KAMERRER: Yes, that's a question.

913:48:02 A. I don't think it has to do with anything like

1013:48:05 that. I think it has to do with determining what facts

1113:48:08 are and separating facts from fiction.

1213:48:10 Q. What facts did you think were going to be learned

1313:48:15 with this investigation of Patricia Rohweder relative to

1413:48:21 Sheriff Elfo?

1513:48:22 A. Maybe where he's from.

1613:48:23 Q. Well, you know where he's from.

1713:48:25 A. No, I don't.

1813:48:26 Q. You know he's from Florida.

1913:48:28 A. It's been implied to me that he's from New

2013:48:28 Jersey.

2113:48:32 Q. Have you found any records indicating he's from

2213:48:35 New Jersey?

2313:48:36 A. New Jersey will not respond to any request for

2413:48:39 information.

2513:48:39 Q. So you haven't found out that he's from New


Page 130

113:48:42 Jersey; is that right?

213:48:42 A. I haven't found that he is not from New Jersey

313:48:45 either.



613:49:00 Q. Did you post the text that is on that page?

713:49:04 A. (Witness reviews document.) That appears to be,

813:49:11 yes.

913:49:12 Q. The second paragraph there says: This post is

1013:49:16 about determining still as of yet undetermined facts

1113:49:21 relating to a significant aspect of Bill Elfo's life.

1213:49:26 One of those as of yet unidentified aspects is a

1313:49:30 previous marriage to the person shown above, Patricia

1413:49:34 Rohweder.

1513:49:35 My question is, in that first sentence, what is

1613:49:39 the significant aspect of Bill Elfo's life that you were

1713:49:45 pursuing with the investigation that produced this post?

1813:49:55 A. Well, I don't think you're the first one to say

1913:49:58 he's from Florida. I think that seems to be common

2013:50:04 knowledge that he's from Florida. However, records seem

2113:50:07 to indicate that he's not from Florida.

2213:50:10 Q. What records?

2313:50:12 A. Just a variety of records that I've accumulated

2413:50:16 in my research. Some of them are genealogical, some of

2513:50:24 them are departmental state agency records. I believe


Page 131

113:50:30 there's one I found that all but says he's from New

213:50:36 Jersey.

313:50:36 Q. And you have those records in your possession?

413:50:39 A. I do.

513:50:41 Q. Are they on any of the hard drives that were

613:50:44 brought today?

713:50:46 A. It's doubtful.

813:50:49 Q. Again, we're going to make a request for

913:50:52 production for those documents, so don't do away with

1013:50:55 them.

1113:50:57 Turn the page to 20 of Exhibit 9.

1213:51:09 Why did you post a photograph of a tombstone of

1313:51:16 who you thought were Sheriff Elfo's relatives?

1413:51:23 A. Because it's from the genealogical research page.

1513:51:28 Q. What was the significance of posting a tombstone

1613:51:32 photograph?

1713:51:34 A. Because that's what that genealogical service

1813:51:36 does.

1913:51:39 Q. Why was that information important to you?

2013:51:42 A. In genealogy research, grave markers, burial

2113:51:49 information, burial texts, all sorts of -- any

2213:51:56 monumental-type grave marker, that's very significant in

2313:51:59 research, genealogical research.

2413:52:00 Q. How were these people related to Sheriff Elfo?

2513:52:04 A. Boy, I have to put this together. It's been a


Page 132

113:52:18 while since I've looked through this information, so

213:52:20 give me a second.

313:52:31 Ana and John, how did they fit in? This is the

413:52:35 reason I created a genealogy, so I wouldn't have to try

513:52:39 to keep this in my memory. But Elfo's mother was

613:52:45 married to Mr. -- Mr. Elfo's mother was married to a

713:52:53 Elfo from New Jersey and there was a connection between

813:52:58 these two, I want to say John was the brother, but I

913:53:05 also found another record that showed John E. had

1013:53:09 deceased, had become deceased before his date of birth,

1113:53:16 so obviously that's something that's not correct in the

1213:53:19 records. You can't be -- you can't die before you're

1313:53:26 born. So something is wrong somewhere. That's just an

1413:53:34 anomaly, it's an unanswered thing that I never did get

1513:53:38 quite defined.

1613:53:38 Q. How does this information provide anything useful

1713:53:42 relative to Sheriff Elfo?

1813:53:45 A. Well, the hope was that the genealogy part of it

1913:53:48 would lead to maybe trying to figure out where he is

2013:53:51 from.

2113:53:51 Q. Why is that important to you?

2213:53:53 A. Well, because he's a -- he's a defendant in a

2313:53:59 lawsuit, the question might come up at some point.

2413:54:03 Q. Do you think he has misrepresented his origins in

2513:54:07 any way to the public in Whatcom County?


Page 133

113:54:09 A. I think there's a chance of that.

213:54:11 Q. What's your evidence of that?

313:54:15 A. Well, that's why I was working on the genealogy.

413:54:18 Q. So the fact that, is it grandparents or great

513:54:23 grandparents may have been from New Jersey put you hot

613:54:28 on the trail of misrepresentation?

713:54:30 A. That's your characterization, not mine.

813:54:33 Q. Why do you have a photograph of someone

913:54:55 identified as Mary J. Parks on Page 20 of Exhibit 9?

1013:55:05 A. I don't remember why.

1113:55:08 Q. Did you think she was related in any way to

1213:55:12 someone who works for the Whatcom County Sheriff's

1313:55:16 office?

1413:55:16 A. I don't remember why.

1513:55:19 Q. You have included Undersheriff Jeff Parks in your

1613:55:33 insults posted on Facebook, haven't you?

1713:55:45 THE REPORTER: Can you repeat that question?

1813:55:45 MR. KAMERRER: Sure. You probably didn't

1913:55:45 get it.

2013:55:45 THE REPORTER: That's why I ask you to

2113:55:49 repeat it if something sounds...

2213:55:49 Q. Have you included Undersheriff Jeff Parks in your

2313:55:55 insults posted on Facebook?

2413:55:59 A. Again, your characterization, not mine, but he

2513:56:03 has been referenced on that page, yes.


Page 134

113:56:06 Q. Did you think that this Mary J. Parks whose

213:56:09 photograph is on Page 20 of Exhibit 9 was somehow

313:56:13 related to Undersheriff Jeff Parks?

413:56:18 A. I have no way of knowing.

513:56:20 Q. So did you ever know anything that connected this

613:56:31 Mary J. Parks to Jeff Parks?

713:56:35 A. To the best of my knowledge, no.



1013:57:07 Q. In the upper right-hand corner of that page,

1113:57:11 there is a photograph of Undersheriff Jeff Parks with a

1213:57:19 superimposed Hitler-type mustache. Was that posted by

1313:57:25 you?


1513:57:28 Q. And I characterize it as insult. What do you

1613:57:32 characterize it as?

1713:57:34 A. As something that's probably pretty commonly

1813:57:45 understood internally within the office.

1913:57:47 Q. So you were posting this so that other members of

2013:57:52 the sheriff's office would see it?

2113:57:58 A. I don't think that's correct.

2213:58:02 Q. You posted it so anybody who went to your

2313:58:05 Facebook page could see it?

2413:58:07 A. Well, it is social media.

2513:58:09 Q. And do you think it's an insult to Undersheriff


Page 135

113:58:16 Parks to be characterized as Hitler?

213:58:19 A. Probably.

313:58:21 Q. And that's how you intended it, didn't you?

413:58:25 A. Probably.

513:58:25 Q. And that's another example of your view of

613:58:39 appropriate political commentary?

713:58:42 A. Well, after the seven years of hell that I've

813:58:44 been through, I think I'm entitled to a little bit of

913:58:48 grievance. If it can't be aired internally, there you

1013:59:38 go.


1214:00:20 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 10,

1314:00:26 Mr. Murphy, do you recognize this as an email that you

1414:00:36 sent to I believe he's a lieutenant, Eric Francis -- or

1514:00:42 excuse me, Lieutenant Kevin Hester from you on March 5,

1614:00:49 2012? And I'll point out that I have numbered the

1714:00:56 paragraphs on the left-hand side just for ease of

1814:00:59 reference.

1914:01:00 A. Yep, it looks like the one.

2014:01:03 Q. So this occurred after the March 1, 2012

2114:01:10 interview that you had with Inspector Cooley; is that

2214:01:20 right?

2314:01:20 A. Yep.

2414:01:21 Q. And you say that you -- this was done to clarify

2514:01:26 some things; is that right?


Page 136

114:01:27 A. That was my intent, yeah.

214:01:30 Q. When you referred in the second paragraph there

314:01:59 to "now surrendered MDT," were you referring to the

414:02:03 Panasonic Toughbook computer that had been transferred

514:02:07 to you by Deputy Roff at the beginning of 2008?

614:02:18 A. Yes.

714:02:18 Q. In Paragraph 6, where you say: Second, I didn't

814:02:34 document anything about the replacement of the drive

914:02:37 because frankly I never imagined that it was ever going

1014:02:41 to be an issue, especially in light of the two previous

1114:02:46 instances, in that sentence when you refer to

1214:02:53 "replacement of the drive," were you referring to the

1314:02:56 hard drive that originally came from Roff to you in the

1414:03:05 Panasonic Toughbook computer?

1514:03:07 A. Say that again.

1614:03:15 Q. Were you referring to the original hard drive in

1714:03:18 the Toughbook computer that you received from Roff?

1814:03:23 A. Yeah, it appears so.

1914:03:34 Q. And in the last sentence, you say: I can

2014:03:46 probably come up with the receipt for the drive I

2114:03:50 purchased, but that isn't going to help identify what

2214:03:53 was removed.

2314:03:55 Again, were you referring to a drive you

2414:03:59 purchased to replace the original drive from that

2514:04:05 Panasonic Toughbook computer?


Page 137

114:04:07 A. I think so.

214:04:09 Q. So you're confirming that you did replace the

314:04:17 hard drive in the Toughbook computer, isn't that

414:04:22 correct?

514:04:22 A. Well, yeah, I think so.

614:04:29 Q. And you're recalling a purchase of a replacement

714:04:40 drive for that computer; is that right?

814:04:48 A. I have bought hard drives before, so which one

914:04:52 was for what I'm not sure.

1014:04:54 Q. Did you ever come up with the receipt for that

1114:04:57 purchased hard drive?

1214:05:00 A. Not that I could, no, I didn't.

1314:05:03 Q. How much did that hard drive cost?

1414:05:05 A. I don't know. They weren't expensive, I know

1514:05:10 that.

1614:05:10 Q. More than $50?

1714:05:13 A. Oh, 40 to 50 sounds about right for a laptop

1814:05:19 drive. I think it was based more on the size of the

1914:05:28 drive than that it was a laptop.

2014:05:31 Q. In Paragraph 8, the last sentence, you say: I'm

2114:05:37 happy to return it, but I need to be able to identify it

2214:05:41 to do so.

2314:05:44 Were you referring to the Panasonic Toughbook

2414:05:49 computer's original hard drive in that sentence?

2514:05:53 A. I'm telling him I'm not trying to keep anything


Page 138

114:05:56 from the County.

214:05:57 Q. But the "it" that you're referring to there was

314:06:01 the original hard drive of the Toughbook computer, isn't


514:06:07 A. No, I don't think that is right.

614:06:09 Q. What were you planning to return?

714:06:11 A. If it turns up, if I find it in a box somewhere,

814:06:17 I'll give it back.

914:06:18 Q. And by that you mean the hard drive from the

1014:06:21 Panasonic Toughbook computer, the original hard drive?

1114:06:24 A. I'm telling him I have no intent to keep anything

1214:06:27 that doesn't belong to me.

1314:06:38 Q. Do you have anything other than your statements

1414:06:45 here to support any conclusion other than that you have

1514:06:54 retained the original hard drive from the Panasonic

1614:06:59 Toughbook computer?


1814:07:00 Q. What is that?

1914:07:02 A. Practically torn my shop apart at least twice in

2014:07:05 the time since this was written until now, and I am

2114:07:10 confident that I do not have that hard drive. I wasn't

2214:07:15 so sure at this time because I just -- I mean, my shop

2314:07:21 is 40 by 60. It's a big shop. And I have a lot of

2414:07:25 storage in that shop. So it takes some time to go

2514:07:29 through and check drawers and check storage bins and


Page 139

114:07:33 check packages of things that I just -- I'm a pack rat

214:07:40 when it comes to keeping old parts, so it just takes

314:07:44 some time to do that.

414:07:45 So at this time I don't believe I had done that

514:07:47 yet. I was hoping that they could give me a serial

614:07:50 number and I would go pull out my boxes of drives and go

714:07:53 drive by drive and say, okay, that's the one right there

814:07:56 and I'll give it back to them.

914:07:58 Q. You told us earlier you've only had four or five

1014:08:02 computers and only one of them was a laptop computer,

1114:08:07 other than your County-assigned computer.

1214:08:10 A. I believe you asked me how many functional

1314:08:13 computers I had, functional.

1414:08:17 Q. Well, how many hard drives for laptops could you

1514:08:24 possibly have?

1614:08:25 A. Well, you're looking at what I have, what I

1714:08:29 brought in today is what I have.

1814:08:30 Q. Three?

1914:08:31 A. With the exception of the one from the old -- the

2014:08:36 old Dell Latitude that I used to have in my patrol car,

2114:08:41 my own personal laptop. So I have four total laptop

2214:08:46 drives. I know that today, I can answer that today. I

2314:08:49 didn't know that in March of 2012.

2414:08:54 Q. So when you removed the hard drive from the

2514:08:57 Panasonic Toughbook computer, you put it somewhere where


Page 140

114:09:02 it cannot be found; is that right?

214:09:04 A. I believe I gave it back to IT.

314:09:06 Q. You didn't believe that at the time of the March

414:09:09 1, 2012 interview, did you?

514:09:12 A. I am -- I'm not sure what I believed and what I

614:09:17 didn't believe.

714:09:17 Q. You certainly didn't say that you --

814:09:20 A. I was clearly confused about some aspects of what

914:09:23 I did and what computers I did it to.

1014:09:25 Q. You certainly didn't say in the March 1, 2012

1114:09:28 interview that you had returned the hard drive to the

1214:09:32 County, did you?

1314:09:33 A. I couldn't remember that, so I couldn't say that,

1414:09:36 could I.

1514:09:37 Q. And, actually, in your email, after you thought

1614:09:44 about things more, that is the email to Kevin Hester,

1714:09:52 Exhibit 10, the only place where you suggested you may

1814:10:02 have returned the original hard drive from the Toughbook

1914:10:05 computer was Paragraph 11, the last sentence. Could you

2014:10:19 look at that?


2214:10:35 Q. In Paragraph 11, the last sentence you say: It

2314:10:39 is also very likely that the old drive went back to them

2414:10:42 attached to the MDT.

2514:10:46 That's the only place where you say or suggest


Page 141

114:10:51 that you may have returned the original hard drive from

214:10:54 the Panasonic Toughbook computer to the County, correct?

314:11:03 A. I'll take your word for it. I haven't

414:11:07 inventoried where I've made those statements.

514:11:13 Q. How was it attached to the computer when you took

614:11:20 it in for the migration?

714:11:23 A. Do you want my speculation or do you want my

814:11:25 recollection?

914:11:26 Q. I would like the truth.

1014:11:27 A. Well, I'm trying to give you the truth, but

1114:11:31 clearly this process has not been about determining the

1214:11:33 truth.

1314:11:35 Q. Answer the question, please.

1414:11:36 A. I believe that I returned the old hard drive

1514:11:46 based on a conversation with either John or somebody

1614:11:49 else at IT, and when the computer went in for migration,

1714:11:55 they took the old hard drive and they put the -- either

1814:11:58 I put the new hard drive in or they put the new hard

1914:12:02 drive in and it was attached to the computer and they

2014:12:04 reloaded it with their software package.

2114:12:09 Q. What was said in the conversation with John or

2214:12:13 someone else from IT?

2314:12:14 A. I don't -- I don't recall exactly.

2414:12:18 Q. So the old hard drive, the original hard drive

2514:12:22 from the Panasonic Toughbook computer was not attached


Page 142

114:12:27 to the MDT, such as by tape or rubber band or something

214:12:32 else?

314:12:33 A. It could have been.

414:12:34 Q. You don't remember that?

514:12:35 A. I don't remember, no. I had no reason to keep

614:12:46 any part of it.

714:12:50 Q. Do you distinctly remember that the original hard

814:12:54 drive from the Toughbook computer was separate from the

914:13:00 rest of the box, the keyboard and screen and the rest of

1014:13:04 it?

1114:13:04 A. Do I remember that the hard drive was separate?

1214:13:08 Q. Yes.

1314:13:08 A. As in out of it?

1414:13:10 Q. Correct.

1514:13:10 A. I do remember having the enclosure out of that

1614:13:15 MDT. I had that enclosure out. I thought I did some

1714:13:19 maintenance to it, that's what led me to think that

1814:13:22 perhaps I did actually replace that hard drive and I

1914:13:26 just didn't remember it.

2014:13:27 Q. So as it was turned in for the migration in

2114:13:31 September, 2010, the computer itself did not have a hard

2214:13:37 drive in it, is that what you're saying?

2314:13:39 A. Oh, I'm sure it had a hard drive in it.

2414:13:41 Q. So it had a hard drive in it, it had a separate

2514:13:44 one attached and -- is that correct?


Page 143

114:13:46 A. That's what I believe.

214:13:49 Q. So which was the hard drive that was attached?

314:13:54 A. Like I said, I don't know.

414:13:56 Q. Which was the hard drive that was in the

514:13:57 computer?

614:13:58 A. I don't know.

714:13:59 Q. Do you know what the size of that drive was that

814:14:01 was in the computer?

914:14:02 A. I don't.

1014:14:03 Q. Did you put that new drive in the Toughbook


1214:14:11 A. It's possible.

1314:14:13 Q. You don't know?

1414:14:14 A. I don't specifically recall that, no, but it's

1514:14:17 possible.

1614:14:18 Q. Do you remember purchasing a hard drive to put

1714:14:23 into that computer?

1814:14:24 A. I remember buying a hard drive around that time,

1914:14:31 but I -- I -- it would be a stretch to say that it was

2014:14:34 for this computer.

2114:14:35 Q. What was the size of that hard drive that you

2214:14:38 bought?

2314:14:38 A. Don't remember.

2414:14:40 Q. Was it in a box originally as it came from the

2514:14:46 seller?


Page 144


214:14:47 Q. Was it in one of these moisture proof static

314:14:51 resistant bags?

414:14:52 A. Most of the hard drives that I bought were in

514:14:58 that silvery antistatic bag that the one hard drive was

614:15:01 in.

714:15:01 Q. Did you take it out of that bag and go through

814:15:05 the process I described earlier about taking out the

914:15:09 case that the Toughbook hard drive is in and unscrewing

1014:15:12 it?

1114:15:12 A. It's possible.

1214:15:13 Q. It's only possible, you just don't know?

1314:15:16 A. You're asking me if I have independent

1414:15:18 recollection, and I do not.

1514:15:19 Q. You recognize now, don't you, that your

1614:15:31 statements about attaching the original hard drive and

1714:15:38 turning it in to IT, even though it's speculation on

1814:15:43 your part, it's also inconsistent with what you said in

1914:15:47 the May 1 -- or the March 1, 2012 interview?

2014:15:52 A. Well, there was some confusion about what actions

2114:15:55 had been performed to what computer.

2214:15:59 Q. It's inconsistent with what you told Cooley in

2314:16:02 that interview though, isn't it?

2414:16:04 A. It's -- it's inconsistent as it relates --

2514:16:11 pertains to the MDT, but it's not as it pertains to the


Page 145

114:16:16 Dell Latitude. I was confused about which computer I

214:16:22 was remembering is what it comes down to.

314:16:25 Q. That was self-induced confusion because Cooley

414:16:29 referred specifically to the Toughbook computer, didn't

514:16:33 he?

614:16:35 A. Yes.

714:16:40 Q. You realize as a law enforcement officer that

814:16:44 when you find that a suspect who you have been

914:16:52 interviewing changes their story, that you have

1014:16:57 basically have got them?

1114:17:00 A. No, I don't.

1214:17:01 Q. And that when they say something like, "I wasn't

1314:17:05 at that house where that crime occurred on that night"

1414:17:09 and then you keep questioning them and they say, "Well,

1514:17:13 I was there just for ten minutes," you know they're

1614:17:16 lying, don't you?

1714:17:17 A. In that circumstance, yes.

1814:17:20 Q. And that's an inconsistency in their story?

1914:17:23 A. But inconsistency does not mean untruth.

2014:17:28 Q. You wouldn't give up on the interview if he said,

2114:17:30 "I wasn't there"?

2214:17:31 A. No, I would not.

2314:17:33 Q. You would pursue and after you got him to change

2414:17:38 his story you would tell him you knew he was lying,

2514:17:42 wouldn't you?


Page 146

114:17:42 A. I would.

214:17:44 Q. You realize it would be a theft to deprive the

314:17:50 County of property it owned, don't you?

414:17:51 A. I do.

514:17:55 Q. Your lack of recollection and your willingness to

614:18:03 speculate in a way that is inconsistent with what you

714:18:07 said in your March 1, 2012 interview sounds like you're

814:18:16 trying to excuse a theft of County equipment. Can you

914:18:19 tell me why that's not correct?

1014:18:21 A. That is your characterization and I think it's

1114:18:25 completely wrong.

1214:18:27 Q. Why is it wrong?

1314:18:28 A. Because I don't -- I've already told you several

1414:18:31 times I don't want to answer the question because I

1514:18:33 don't remember. Yet you are compelling me to answer

1614:18:36 anyway.

1714:18:36 Q. Well, you have answered in the March --

1814:18:39 A. You're forcing me to.

1914:18:41 Q. In the March 1 interview you answered, and you

2014:18:48 said something inconsistent with what you're saying now.

2114:18:51 Can you tell me why it's wrong to believe that you have

2214:18:54 lied about what you did with that computer?

2314:18:57 A. As I've already explained to you, new information

2414:19:00 has been found in that -- in the interim time that

2514:19:06 explains some of what was misunderstood at the time.


Page 147

114:19:09 Q. What is that new information?

214:19:11 A. As I've already explained to you, I found a new

314:19:16 hard drive or I found a hard drive that previously I

414:19:18 didn't know that I had that explains some of what I

514:19:21 remember.

614:19:26 Q. What is that hard drive that you found?

714:19:29 A. It's the one I've already showed you.

814:19:32 Q. Did you bring it here today?

914:19:33 A. You've already seen it.

1014:19:35 Q. Which one is it of the three?

1114:19:37 A. It's the one that -- the 40 gigabyte, the 40 gig

1214:19:37 Hitachi.

1314:19:43 Q. So that was one -- that wasn't from the Toughbook


1514:19:46 A. I don't think so, no.

1614:19:47 Q. It was from an earlier computer that was assigned

1714:19:51 to you?

1814:19:51 A. It's a Dell Latitude.

1914:19:53 Q. So that's County equipment?

2014:19:55 A. I don't know that. The County can't tell me what

2114:20:00 was supposed to be in the computer.

2214:20:01 Q. Is it a hard drive that you removed from a County

2314:20:05 computer and replaced with a larger drive?

2414:20:09 MS. BESCHEN: It's asked and answered. He

2514:20:11 doesn't know.


Page 148

114:20:13 Q. Do you think that it was?

214:20:15 A. I think there's a possibility that it could be.

314:20:19 But I think short of the County being able to

414:20:23 demonstrate to me or furnish me with information that

514:20:25 helps me figure out what was supposed to be in the

614:20:27 computer, I don't know how I can possibly be expected to

714:20:31 determine it.

814:20:32 Q. Well, I mean, that's a convenient dodge because

914:20:38 you know the County doesn't keep -- they don't break

1014:20:41 into a computer, take out the hard drive and record the

1114:20:45 serial number of the hard drive which is distinct from

1214:20:49 the serial number of the computer itself, isn't it?

1314:20:54 A. That was several questions.

1414:20:59 Q. Well, go ahead and answer.

1514:21:00 A. Which one?

1614:21:02 Q. It's one question, I'll read it to you again.

1714:21:06 That's a convenient dodge because you know the

1814:21:10 County doesn't keep, they don't break into a computer,

1914:21:13 take out the hard drive and record the serial number of

2014:21:16 the hard drive which is distinct from the serial number

2114:21:20 of the computer itself --

2214:21:21 MS. BESCHEN: Objection.

2314:21:22 Q. -- isn't it?

2414:21:24 MS. BESCHEN: Assumes facts not in evidence

2514:21:26 and mischaracterizes testimony.


Page 149

114:21:28 Go ahead.

214:21:29 MR. KAMERRER: Go ahead.

314:21:30 A. I didn't know. First of all, the presuppositions

414:21:35 are incorrect. I did not know that the County didn't

514:21:39 track hard drives. You're assuming that I did, and I

614:21:42 did not. I wouldn't have asked the question if I

714:21:44 thought they couldn't give me an answer. So I really

814:21:47 thought that somebody would be able to pull up their

914:21:51 little tracking system and tell me it should have hard

1014:21:55 drive such-and-such in it and then I would have a

1114:21:58 number. So no, I didn't know that.

1214:22:04 Most computers that I have bought, they -- they

1314:22:07 furnish you with component numbers of the pieces that

1414:22:11 are used in the building of that computer. The computer

1514:22:14 that I just bought -- actually two new computers that I

1614:22:17 just bought, both of them had hard drive information on

1714:22:20 the label. It told me what serial number hard drive is

1814:22:23 in the computer. So no, I did not know that. I

1914:22:26 presumed that they would be able to tell me.

2014:22:29 Q. When did you begin looking for the hard drive

2114:22:39 that you removed from the Panasonic Toughbook computer?

2214:22:44 A. Probably immediately. As soon as I realized that

2314:22:50 that's something that was the subject of interest is

2414:22:54 probably when I went looking for it right away.

2514:22:57 Q. How do you explain that a inoperable 20 gigabyte


Page 150

114:23:20 hard drive was found inside the Toughbook computer when

214:23:29 IT attempted to perform the migration in September 2010?

314:23:34 MS. BESCHEN: Objection. Calls for


514:23:38 A. Should I speculate?

614:23:41 Q. Well, she's not defining that it calls for

714:23:45 speculation. She's making an objection for the record.

814:23:48 I would like to you answer the question.

914:23:49 MS. BESCHEN: If you can.

1014:23:50 A. The only way I can answer it is to speculate,

1114:23:53 because I don't know.

1214:23:54 Q. What is your best surmise to explain that?

1314:23:57 A. I think IT screwed up.

1414:24:02 Q. How so, how did they screw up?

1514:24:05 MS. BESCHEN: Same objection. Calls for


1714:24:11 Please only answer what is in your

1814:24:13 knowledge, unless your question is specifically for him

1914:24:17 to speculate.

2014:24:18 Q. To the best of your knowledge, what -- how did IT

2114:24:20 screw up as you put it?

2214:24:23 A. I don't think that 20 gigabyte drive came out of

2314:24:29 my computer.

2414:24:30 Q. So you think they are not telling the truth when

2514:24:34 they say they found that 20 gigabyte hard drive in your


Page 151

114:24:38 computer?

214:24:39 A. I didn't say they were lying, I said I think they

314:24:42 screwed up.

414:24:45 Q. Have you talked to anyone about how that 20

514:24:49 gigabyte hard drive was found?

614:24:51 A. I did not.

714:25:05 Q. If you didn't want someone to access information

814:25:10 on the original Toughbook computer hard drive, removing

914:25:18 it and installing an inoperable drive of any type would

1014:25:25 be a way to avoid that, correct?

1114:25:27 A. I think you've already asked that several times,

1214:25:30 and that is one possibility, yes.

1314:25:32 Q. When you got the computer back post migration,

1414:25:46 did it operate correctly?

1514:25:49 A. I think so.

1614:25:52 Q. Did you avoid installing or reinstalling the

1714:25:58 personal information you wanted to -- you didn't want IT

1814:26:03 to see on that drive?

1914:26:08 A. I definitely started handling the file

2014:26:12 organization differently. I stopped using it -- I

2114:26:19 stopped using the County computer as a quasi personal

2214:26:24 computer, so I didn't put my own family banking stuff on

2314:26:28 there after that.

2414:26:30 But some of the -- some of the files were still

2514:26:32 in my backups, so I guess the answer is yes, I did.


Page 152

114:26:39 Q. So explain how you used that information from

214:26:48 backups and using the Toughbook computer?

314:26:51 MS. BESCHEN: Objection. Vague.

414:26:53 A. I need to hear that one more time. We're just

514:27:02 going in circles here and you're losing me, so if I

614:27:05 could hear that one more time, please.

714:27:07 Q. You referred to your backups, what are those?

814:27:10 A. Any -- any backup of any type for -- in the case

914:27:18 of a computer failure so you don't lose your data.

1014:27:22 Q. To what storage device would you perform a

1114:27:29 backup?

1214:27:30 A. Excuse me.

1314:27:32 At the time of the migration onward?

1414:27:38 Q. Post migration.

1514:27:46 A. So from migration onward, I don't think I could

1614:27:49 use Carbonite anymore, so I think Carbonite was out. I

1714:27:54 don't think I could use any of my own file storage

1814:27:57 services from that point forward, so I think that was

1914:28:00 out. So I think I'm down to a flash drive or backup

2014:28:04 disc on a CD.

2114:28:08 Q. Had you stored personal information on a flash

2214:28:16 drive, a CD or Carbonite before the migration?

2314:28:21 MS. BESCHEN: Objection. Vague.

2414:28:23 A. Yes.

2514:28:29 Q. Did you use those storage devices other than the


Page 153

114:28:33 Carbonite to re-access that information post migration?

214:28:41 MS. BESCHEN: Same objection.

314:28:48 A. Not that I can recall.

414:28:53 MR. KAMERRER: I would like to take a break.

514:28:56 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record at

614:28:58 2:28 p.m.



914:48:47 at 2:48.



1214:48:52 Exhibit 11, are these photocopies of the bag and each

1314:49:11 side of the three hard disc drives that you brought to

1414:49:20 the deposition today in response to our request for

1514:49:25 production?

1614:49:25 A. Yes.

1714:49:26 Q. And is it the fourth page of that exhibit that is

1814:49:56 a photocopy of the hard disc that may have come from a

1914:50:02 County computer?

2014:50:07 A. Fourth and fifth. It's possible, but I guess

2114:50:18 that's speculation, actually.

2214:50:21 Q. And just to further distinguish this in case

2314:50:23 these pages get mixed up, that is a Hitachi Travel Star

2414:50:32 disc with a model number of HTS541040 G9 SA 00?

2514:50:51 A. That looks right, yeah.


Page 154

114:50:53 Q. Okay.

214:50:59 A. I don't have my glasses, but I think so.

314:51:07 Q. Where did you find that 40 gigabyte Hitachi

414:51:15 Travel Star disc?

514:51:17 A. I found it in some patrol bags that had been

614:51:22 removed from my patrol car that I realized at some point

714:51:27 that I had never actually gone through and looked

814:51:30 through all of my patrol bags.

914:51:36 Q. Have you purchased an 80 gigabyte hard drive at

1014:51:53 some point?

1114:51:55 A. Not that I can find record of.

1214:52:00 Q. Is the bag that is the first page of Exhibit 11

1314:52:09 from a hard drive that you purchased?

1414:52:13 A. I believe so, but I don't have a receipt to back

1514:52:17 it up.

1614:52:17 Q. Do you recognize that that bag has a label on it

1714:52:22 that identifies an 80 gigabyte hard drive?

1814:52:27 A. I do.

1914:52:27 Q. So that makes it appear as if you have purchased

2014:52:31 an 80 gigabyte hard drive at some time?

2114:52:38 A. I agree with that.

2214:52:47 Q. Among the personal files that you didn't want

2314:52:52 anyone else to access premigration, we've already talked

2414:53:04 about outlaw motorcycle gang-related materials, and I'm

2514:53:11 not interested in family photographs or people's


Page 155

114:53:15 birthdays or things like that, were there other

214:53:25 materials on that hard drive that related to criminal

314:53:32 investigations or criminal activities of any people,

414:53:38 whether they were motorcycle gang people or not?

514:53:41 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; mischaracterizes

614:53:43 testimony and is vague.

714:53:48 You can still answer.

814:53:50 A. Yes.

914:53:54 Q. Were they -- these other people, we've already

1014:53:57 talked about motorcycle gangs, so I don't want to go

1114:54:00 over that again, but were these other people whose

1214:54:03 information was contained on the hard drive premigration

1314:54:10 Whatcom County criminals?

1414:54:19 A. I don't know that I would characterize it that

1514:54:22 way, but in the way I think you mean it, yes.

1614:54:27 Q. Some of them were...?

1714:54:32 A. People of interest.

1814:54:33 Q. In Whatcom County?

1914:54:35 A. Yes.

2014:54:39 Q. Not necessarily residents of Whatcom County, but

2114:54:42 people who might commit crimes passing through?

2214:54:45 A. That and maybe people who should be on the radar

2314:54:51 but for whatever reason never were.

2414:54:59 Q. Did you ever bring those people to the attention

2514:55:04 of your supervisors or the administration of the


Page 156

114:55:07 sheriff's office so they could be on the radar?

214:55:13 A. When appropriate.

314:55:17 Q. When was it appropriate, in your thinking?

414:55:19 A. Well, when there is a specific inquiry about a

514:55:28 certain individual or information is sought related to

614:55:38 any specific crimes.

714:55:43 Q. So in order for you to divulge that information

814:55:47 to other law enforcement authorities, they would need to

914:55:51 ask you specifically for information on a given

1014:55:54 individual; is that right?

1114:55:58 A. I wouldn't phrase it that way. I mean, I would

1214:56:01 have -- I would have to know of the need. I would have

1314:56:07 to -- I mean, I wouldn't want to walk around all day

1414:56:15 just spilling my guts about everything that I know, so

1514:56:18 you tend to manage information based on what you're

1614:56:23 aware of as far as who needs to know or what they're

1714:56:26 looking for.

1814:56:28 So if I'm aware, say for example Spencer Kope, if

1914:56:32 I know Spencer Kope is tracking a series of crimes and I

2014:56:36 happen to have a tidbit of information that fits, I'll

2114:56:39 tell him. I'll pass it to him.

2214:56:41 Q. Who is Spencer Kope?

2314:56:44 A. He's the crime analyst.

2414:56:45 Q. For what agency?

2514:56:47 A. For the sheriff's office.


Page 157

114:56:47 THE REPORTER: What was the last name?

214:56:52 THE WITNESS: Kope, K-O-P-E.

314:56:57 Q. And who determined whether there was a need to

414:57:03 know the information that you had on your computer

514:57:07 premigration?

614:57:11 A. I guess largely me. In the absence of something

714:57:23 to the contrary, I guess it had to be me.

814:57:26 Q. Did anyone ever tell you that their sheriff's

914:57:30 office issued Toughbook computer had a hard drive in it

1014:57:35 that was smaller than 80 gigabytes?

1114:57:42 A. Did anybody from the sheriff's office ever tell

1214:57:45 me? No.

1314:57:46 Q. Did you hear that from any source?

1414:57:53 A. I did do some research on my own and found that.

1514:57:56 Q. So you looked at some literature on those

1614:58:00 computers?

1714:58:03 A. I -- wherever the point of contention between the

1814:58:10 40 versus 80 heated up. It was -- it was just prior to

1914:58:18 my termination that that question was kind of raging and

2014:58:23 I started digging into it to see what I kind find out

2114:58:27 because I was pretty sure it was 40.

2214:58:29 Q. Did you find that a 80 gigabyte hard drive was

2314:58:33 standard for that computer?

2414:58:35 A. I found that 80 was amongst the options for that

2514:58:39 computer.


Page 158

114:58:40 Q. And were you specific in looking for the model

214:58:49 number of the type of Toughbook computer that had been

314:58:54 purchased by the County for the sheriff's office?


514:59:02 Q. And I believe that was called a CF-29?

614:59:06 A. Correct.

714:59:12 Q. Did you look -- have you ever looked at the

814:59:18 purchase data for what the County ordered for those

914:59:22 CF-29 computers?

1014:59:23 A. Since the termination, yes, I have.

1114:59:27 Q. And you saw that it was to include an 80 gigabyte

1214:59:31 hard drive?

1314:59:32 A. What I saw was an I-520 screen print that's

1414:59:37 manually typed in.

1514:59:38 Q. What does that mean?

1614:59:39 A. That means somebody sat at a terminal and typed

1714:59:42 in what the screen says. So I don't know whether

1814:59:45 there's a record to back that up or not. All I know is

1914:59:49 what I saw.

2014:59:55 Q. I guess you've lost me in your computerese there.

2114:59:59 You mean somebody looked at the screen of each computer

2215:00:04 and from the system properties site saw that it

2315:00:11 included --

2415:00:11 A. No.

2515:00:11 Q. -- it had an 80 gigabyte hard drive?


Page 159

115:00:14 A. No. The only -- the only piece of the

215:00:17 information I saw related to what the computers were

315:00:19 originally equipped with was a screen print from the

415:00:23 County's central data system which is called I-520,

515:00:29 previously it was called the AS 400, and it was

615:00:35 literally just a screen print that listed, I don't know,

715:00:42 say a dozen, maybe dozen and a half different computers

815:00:47 and basic information about each computer. In other

915:00:53 words, it's information from a clerk, not from a label.

1015:00:53 THE REPORTER: Not a label?

1115:00:58 THE WITNESS: Not from a label, yes.


1315:01:07 A. I think that's it right there. That looks like

1415:01:10 it right there.

1515:01:16 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 12,

1615:01:21 Mr. Murphy, is that the information you reviewed about

1715:01:27 how the Toughbook computers purchased by the County for

1815:01:34 the sheriff's office were configured?

1915:01:37 A. This is what I remember seeing. I believe it was

2015:01:43 included with the -- with Cooley's investigative file.

2115:01:48 Q. Do you see anything in these materials that is

2215:01:51 inconsistent with the Toughbook computers having 80

2315:02:00 gigabyte hard drives in them?


2515:02:15 I think I would phrase that a different way,


Page 160

115:02:18 but...

215:02:19 Q. I would like you to answer my question.

315:02:23 A. Well, I'm not sure I understand your question.

415:02:26 Q. Do you see anything in these documents that is

515:02:29 inconsistent with the Toughbook computers having 80

615:02:38 gigabyte hard drives?

715:02:39 A. I don't see anything that shows manufacturer's

815:02:45 information showing that that has an 80 gigabyte hard

915:02:51 drive.

1015:02:51 Q. What I'm asking you is these documents, Exhibit

1115:02:53 12, do they have anything that is inconsistent with

1215:02:58 those Toughbook computers having 80 gigabyte hard

1315:03:02 drives?

1415:03:02 MS. BESCHEN: Can he have a minute to look?


1615:03:06 MS. BESCHEN: Have you looked through the

1715:03:07 document already?

1815:03:07 THE WITNESS: Let me -- now, let me look

1915:03:10 through it again because I think I'm missing what he's

2015:03:12 after.

2115:03:13 (Witness reviews document.)

2215:04:34 Okay. I see what's in here. Back to the

2315:04:38 question. It still sounds like a double negative to me,

2415:04:41 which is confusing.

2515:04:42 Q. It isn't a double negative. Is there anything in


Page 161

115:04:47 these documents that is inconsistent with the belief

215:04:51 that the Toughbook computers had 80 gigabyte hard drives

315:04:58 in them?

415:04:59 A. I guess no, but I don't really see the point of

515:05:07 that, but it's your question. So no.

615:05:10 Q. If you were to -- or when you cloned the hard

715:05:22 drive from the Dell computer that you had as a property

815:05:30 investigator, did you follow the identical process that

915:05:37 would be necessary to clone a hard drive from a

1015:05:42 Toughbook computer?

1115:05:46 A. I don't have any way of knowing that.

1215:05:48 Q. Did the Dell computer have a hard drive enclosed

1315:05:53 in a protective case that required the removal of screws

1415:05:57 and unclipping it and taking off tape and cushions in

1515:06:04 order to duplicate or clone that hard drive?

1615:06:07 A. Well, cloning and replacing are not the same

1715:06:11 thing.

1815:06:11 Q. I'm talking about cloning.

1915:06:13 A. Yeah, but you're describing replacing.

2015:06:16 Q. I'm talking about the process of making a

2115:06:19 duplicate.

2215:06:23 A. I -- I don't have any specific recollection of

2315:06:26 what it is that I cloned. I thought it was the MDT, but

2415:06:32 I really think it was that Dell Latitude now.

2515:06:39 Q. Did you have to remove the hard drive from a


Page 162

115:06:43 protective case like the kind that was used in the

215:06:47 Toughbook computer in order to clone the Dell hard

315:06:52 drive?

415:06:52 A. Did I have to remove the computer from a

515:06:55 protective case in the Dell Latitude? No.

615:07:06 Q. So the process of cloning the hard drive from a

715:07:15 Toughbook computer would be much more complicated than

815:07:18 it would be for duplicating the Dell hard drive; is that

915:07:26 right?

1015:07:26 A. I don't think so. I'm -- I'm hearing you

1115:07:32 describe replacing, but you're asking about cloning and

1215:07:36 it's very confusing to me.

1315:07:37 Q. I'm talking about the process where you plug a

1415:07:40 drive into a device that then duplicates that drive on

1515:07:47 another drive, same electronic process.

1615:07:53 MS. BESCHEN: And I object. You're assuming

1715:07:55 facts not in evidence to get to that question.

1815:07:57 You can still answer.

1915:07:59 Q. Go ahead. Do you understand the question?

2015:08:03 A. I understand what I think you're asking.

2115:08:07 The process would be the same, which whatever

2215:08:10 computer was involved.

2315:08:11 Q. You're leaving out the process of removing the

2415:08:15 hard drive from the case that the Toughbook computer's

2515:08:21 hard drive comes in, aren't you?


Page 163

115:08:22 A. Well, it's a different style, so yeah.

215:08:26 Q. So that whole process of taking the box out of

315:08:32 the Toughbook, unscrewing that protective case, removing

415:08:38 the hard drive from that protective case, all of that

515:08:42 process is more complicated than taking the hard drive

615:08:51 out of the Dell computer and then electronically

715:08:54 duplicating it, isn't it, that whole process?

815:08:58 A. I --

915:09:00 MS. BESCHEN: Objection; vague and

1015:09:01 mischaracterizes his testimony.

1115:09:04 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

1215:09:05 A. I don't really even remember how difficult it was

1315:09:09 on the Dell.

1415:09:11 Q. You actually posted a video --

1515:09:14 A. I did.

1615:09:14 Q. -- on your Facebook showing the process of --

1715:09:16 A. I did.

1815:09:17 Q. -- duplicating, removing and duplicating a

1915:09:21 Toughbook computer hard drive, didn't you?

2015:09:24 A. I did.

2115:09:25 Q. And you did that to demonstrate what you had done

2215:09:28 in duplicating the Toughbook hard drive that you

2315:09:33 performed, isn't that correct?

2415:09:35 A. I think the bigger point was to show how easy

2515:09:39 that entire drive unsnaps from a computer. Flick a


Page 164

115:09:45 switch and the whole thing comes out of the computer.

215:09:47 It takes two seconds to pull it out.

315:09:49 Q. And then the other ten minutes of that YouTube

415:09:54 video is involved in unscrewing the case, unpeeling the

515:09:59 tape, removing the foam and all of that, and that's what

615:10:02 the video depicted was that whole process.

715:10:06 A. It did.

815:10:06 Q. And so what I'm trying to ask you, and you were

915:10:09 evading because you don't want to answer the question,

1015:10:12 is that whole process more complicated than taking the

1115:10:18 hard drive out of a Dell computer and duplicating it?

1215:10:20 A. I don't recall.

1315:10:23 Q. You performed that duplication process on both

1415:10:27 kinds of hard drives, didn't you?


1615:10:30 vague as to what you mean by "duplicating."

1715:10:33 But you can answer to what --

1815:10:36 A. I'm referring to the whole process. It's not

1915:10:37 vague at all. I believe that I did clone the detective

2015:10:42 computer drive, and I have no recollection of it

2115:10:45 whatsoever. You're inferring that I cloned the MDT

2215:10:51 drive, which I don't believe I did, and I have no

2315:10:54 recollection of that either. So how do I answer your

2415:10:57 question?

2515:10:58 Q. I'm not inferring. I'm reading from your words


Page 165

115:11:02 in the interview with Cooley. You said several times in

215:11:07 several different ways that you duplicated that hard

315:11:10 drive, didn't you?

415:11:10 A. And in several different explanations that you've

515:11:13 asked me today, I have explained to you that I believe I

615:11:18 was mistaken and I was remembering the detective laptop,

715:11:21 not the MDT.

815:11:22 Q. You've changed your story.

915:11:24 A. That's one way to take it, I suppose.

1015:11:27 Q. Why did you refuse to surrender your duty sidearm

1115:11:31 when you were put on administrative leave?

1215:11:33 A. Because it's mine.

1315:11:36 Q. Despite the fact that you were shown receipts,

1415:11:39 proving that the County had purchased that from you?



1715:11:45 A. I was there the day I bought the gun. The gun

1815:11:48 belongs to me.

1915:11:49 Q. When you were asked to surrender the firearm,

2015:11:53 weren't you shown the receipt whereby you were paid for

2115:11:57 that gun by the County?

2215:12:00 A. I was shown a receipt for an equipment allowance.

2315:12:04 I did not relinquish ownership rights of my gun.

2415:12:11 Q. Ultimately you did surrender the firearm. What

2515:12:17 was necessary to convince you that the County owned that


Page 166

115:12:20 gun and you did not?

215:12:21 A. The County has never convinced me that they own

315:12:24 that gun.

415:12:25 Q. Why did you surrender it then?

515:12:27 A. Because I was ordered to.

615:12:32 Q. Were you aware that in 2003 the Deputy Sheriff's

715:12:42 Guild specifically negotiated the purchase of deputies'

815:12:46 firearms and agreed that the County would own those

915:12:49 firearms after that purchase?

1015:12:51 A. I don't agree that's what the agreement was, but

1115:12:55 I do vaguely recall there being a equipment -- an

1215:13:03 equipment allowance is something different, but an

1315:13:06 equipment stipend to help compensate or offset the cost

1415:13:15 of law enforcement gear.


1615:13:27 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit No. 13,

1715:13:43 do you recognize this as a copy of a letter of

1815:13:46 understanding between the County and the Deputy

1915:13:50 Sheriff's Guild concerning payment for various things,

2015:13:52 including firearms, and including documents showing that

2115:14:02 you were paid for your duty firearm by the County?

2215:14:09 MS. BESCHEN: You can take your time and

2315:14:11 look through it.

2415:14:25 A. I'm sorry, what was the question again, do I see

2515:14:28 the documents?


Page 167

115:14:31 Q. Do you recognize this as a copy of a letter of

215:14:34 understanding that I referred to --

315:14:36 A. Yes.

415:14:37 Q. -- and the receipt documents whereby the County

515:14:41 paid for your firearm, among other pieces of equipment?

615:14:49 A. Yes.

715:14:50 Q. If you go down to the numbered Paragraph 2 on the

815:14:56 first page of Exhibit 13, and the last sentence, let me

915:15:02 read that and then I'll ask you a question. Quote, By

1015:15:06 accepting this payment, deputies are acknowledging that

1115:15:09 this equipment becomes the property of the department

1215:15:13 and is to be returned to the department upon the

1315:15:17 employee's separation, end of quote. Have I read that

1415:15:20 correctly?

1515:15:20 A. You did.

1615:15:21 Q. What did you misunderstand about that?


1815:15:26 in evidence. You're assuming that -- well, have you

1915:15:31 asked if he has seen it before?

2015:15:32 A. I didn't agree to that.

2115:15:36 Q. But you accepted the payment?

2215:15:38 A. Sure. As I do every year.

2315:15:41 Q. So. You essentially were taking the County's

2415:15:45 money while insisting that you were going to keep your

2515:15:48 firearm?


Page 168

115:15:48 A. The firearm remained mine the whole time.

215:15:52 Q. Well, not by this contract.

315:15:54 A. Well, then you should check with the people who

415:15:57 signed it.

515:15:57 MS. BESCHEN: To clarify for the record,

615:15:59 he's not a named person on the contract.

715:16:02 Q. Were you a member of the Deputy Sheriff's Guild?

815:16:05 A. I was.

915:16:07 Q. Doesn't this apply to deputy -- members of the

1015:16:11 Deputy Sheriff's Guild?

1115:16:12 A. To the degree that the signatories made that

1215:16:17 agreement, I suppose so, but I didn't agree to surrender

1315:16:21 ownership of my gun.

1415:16:22 Q. Did you tell the administration at the Whatcom

1515:16:25 County Sheriff's Office that you were not agreeing to

1615:16:27 surrender your gun pursuant to this agreement?

1715:16:30 A. They never asked me.

1815:16:31 Q. Did you tell them yourself, did you go in and

1915:16:34 say, Hey I don't want to take this money because I want

2015:16:37 to own this gun myself?

2115:16:39 A. I was never asked.

2215:16:40 Q. Did you go in there and tell them that?

2315:16:41 A. I showed up every day for work armed and no one

2415:16:45 asked.

2515:16:45 Q. But you didn't tell them that?


Page 169

115:16:47 A. I assumed they could have figured that out on

215:16:49 their own.

315:16:50 Q. And you took the money?

415:16:51 A. Sure.

515:16:51 Q. So you were stealing money from the County for

615:16:55 something you never intended to return --


815:16:58 testimony.

915:16:56 Q. -- weren't you?

1015:16:58 A. No, I was not. I took my annual equipment

1115:17:02 allowance like I did every year.

1215:17:03 Q. Did some of the deputies choose not to accept the

1315:17:07 money and retain ownership of their guns?

1415:17:10 A. Couldn't tell you.

1515:17:12 Q. Did you receive a letter from Sheriff Elfo in

1615:18:48 April of 2011 telling you that your allegations on

1715:19:02 social media of corruption in the sheriff's office

1815:19:07 required you to report to a law enforcement agency what

1915:19:14 you knew about corruption?

2015:19:19 A. Yeah, I think I remember that.

2115:19:21 Q. And it wasn't that correct, in the sense that if

2215:19:27 you did have evidence of corruption, you had a duty as a

2315:19:31 law enforcement officer to report that?

2415:19:35 A. Yes.

2515:19:36 Q. Did you ever make a report of corruption or facts


Page 170

115:19:43 of corruption to any law enforcement agency?

215:19:47 A. I did.

315:19:47 Q. When do you that?

415:19:49 A. Which time.

515:19:52 Q. The first time?

615:19:53 A. Steve Cooley, inappropriate conduct with a young

715:19:58 female, engaging in criminal conduct, taking advantage

815:20:03 of a young girl. Yes, I did report that.

915:20:06 Q. The second time?

1015:20:07 A. Sheriff Elfo himself was personally advised as

1115:20:12 well as FBI. As well as the county prosecutor.

1215:20:16 Q. Of what?

1315:20:17 A. Of stuff that was going on with the EHM case and

1415:20:21 the corruption in a broad term, what was going on

1515:20:28 through the county courts.

1615:20:32 Q. Was there a third time?

1715:20:34 A. Well, I had tried several times to advance

1815:20:41 through the administration through the proper channels

1915:20:43 that I felt like I was being targeted for retaliation,

2015:20:47 and no one cared any time previous to that, so I don't

2115:20:51 know why I would have had any basis to believe anybody

2215:20:53 was going to care on April of 2011.

2315:20:56 Q. Was there any other time, other than what you've

2415:20:59 already reported when you reported corruption?

2515:21:05 A. In the second internal investigation, I tried to


Page 171

115:21:09 tell people that Sergeant Beth Larson totally fabricated

215:21:13 her memorandum and her assessment of what took place in

315:21:17 that domestic violence case, and nobody was interested

415:21:21 then either.

515:21:24 Q. Was there any other time that you reported


715:21:30 A. I reported to Jack Laos, the county executive,

815:21:44 when it was crystal clear that everything I had to say

915:21:49 was falling on deaf ears internally. I made a

1015:21:55 last-ditch effort to try to engage the help of the newly

1115:22:00 elected county executive, Jack Laos, and I sent him a

1215:22:07 memorandum based on a whistleblower policy that exists

1315:22:11 in Whatcom County, and that was also denied, that was

1415:22:16 also ignored.

1515:22:20 Q. Was there any other occasion that you reported


1715:22:24 A. I don't know that seems like a pretty stacked

1815:22:42 list to me, but no, I can't think of any off the top.

1915:22:45 Q. With the exception of the Steve Cooley, Kristen

2015:22:56 Cavender matter, all of the examples you have given have

2115:23:05 related to your treatment in the sheriff's office, is

2215:23:09 that a correct characterization?


2415:23:16 his testimony.

2515:23:18 A. I think it's certainly a factor, minimally it's a

Paul

Highlight


Page 172

115:23:25 factor.

215:23:33 Q. The Cooley matter involved off duty conduct, did

315:23:38 it not?

415:23:40 A. I wasn't present. As far as I know, yes.


615:23:49 Q. Showing you what's been marked Exhibit 14, is

715:24:04 that the letter with attachments that you received from

815:24:10 Sheriff Elfo on April 4 -- or about April 4, 2011?


1015:24:20 That looks right. That looks like what I got.

1115:24:27 Q. Did you ever report anything that you have called

1215:24:51 corruption in response to my question to the state

1315:24:55 attorney general?

1415:25:04 A. I'm not sure.

1515:25:07 Q. Did you ever report such matters to the state

1615:25:10 auditor?

1715:25:15 A. I think so.

1815:25:16 Q. And what did you report to the state auditor?

1915:25:18 A. I believe it was going to be the whistleblower

2015:25:24 complaint from roughly June of 2013 -- 2012.

2115:25:34 Q. Did you do that reporting?

2215:25:36 A. I did.

2315:25:37 Q. Did you receive response from the state auditor?

2415:25:40 A. Never did. No, correction. I believe I did get

2515:25:45 a response.


Page 173

115:25:45 Q. Do you have that response document?

215:25:46 A. I do.

315:25:49 Q. I want you to retain that because we'll request

415:25:52 it.

515:25:52 A. Okay.

615:25:53 Q. What did the state auditor say?

715:25:54 A. I'll have to paraphrase this. I'll have to

815:25:59 paraphrase what I recall of it. But it was essentially

915:26:02 that the County erred in applying the incorrect statute

1015:26:12 for the whistleblower protections and that the -- the

1115:26:17 correct statute gave no time frame limitations on

1215:26:21 reporting.

1315:26:28 Q. Did the auditor do anything with respect to your

1415:26:34 complaint itself?

1515:26:40 A. Not that I recall.

1615:26:42 Q. Did you ever report what you have called

1715:26:45 corruption to the FBI?

1815:26:46 A. Independently of the -- independently of the

1915:26:57 agent that I was working with, I'm not sure. I don't

2015:27:06 think so.

2115:27:07 Q. Did you know that that FBI agent asked that you

2215:27:10 be taken off that case?

2315:27:12 A. Nope, I did not.

2415:27:14 Q. Did you ever report what you've called corruption

2515:27:17 to the U.S. attorney?


Page 174


215:27:24 Q. To the Washington State Patrol?

315:27:27 A. Aside from casual conversations, no, I don't

415:27:34 think so.

515:27:35 Q. Did you ever report what you've called corruption

615:27:38 to any police department?

715:27:39 A. I think my circumstances were pretty well known.

815:27:44 Q. No, I'm asking whether you reported to any police

915:27:48 department. I'm excluding the sheriff's office from

1015:27:51 that, police department, like a city police department,

1115:27:54 such as Bellingham, did you ever report what you've

1215:27:56 called corruption to them?

1315:27:58 A. Did I walk into the Bellingham Police Department

1415:28:00 and report --

1515:28:00 Q. No, I'm not limiting it to walking in. Give me

1615:28:04 the broad answer to my broad question.

1715:28:06 A. Did I -- no. In the way that I think you're

1815:28:10 asking it, no, I did not. But, again --

1915:28:16 Q. You know that false reporting is a crime, don't

2015:28:18 you?

2115:28:19 A. I do.

2215:28:19 Q. And official misconduct is a crime as well?

2315:28:24 A. I do.

2415:28:25 Q. Have you reported what you consider to be a

2515:28:30 violation of the statute on official misconduct to any


Page 175

115:28:35 police agency?

215:28:39 A. In general?

315:28:41 Q. No, with respect to the sheriff's office or

415:28:46 Whatcom County.

515:28:49 A. I did reach out to the U.S. Marshals Service in

615:28:54 one aspect in particular.

715:28:55 Q. And what was that?

815:28:57 A. It was related to the Mandy Stavik case.

915:29:00 Q. Mandy Stavik case is an unsolved homicide?

1015:29:03 A. Yes.

1115:29:04 Q. Where was there corruption in the sheriff's

1215:29:07 office or Whatcom County relative to that?

1315:29:09 A. I believe that investigation is being buried.

1415:29:14 Q. Why do you believe that?

1515:29:15 A. Because information is being suppressed.

1615:29:21 Q. How have you attempted to get information about

1715:29:24 that?

1815:29:24 A. I by happenstance probably is a good way to

1915:29:32 describe it, happened to develop some contacts with

2015:29:36 people who seem to know a lot about what took place.

2115:29:39 Q. What's the status of the investigation?

2215:29:42 A. That, I don't know.

2315:29:43 Q. As far as you know, it's open?

2415:29:45 A. As far as I know, it's open, yes.

2515:29:48 Q. How is it -- how is it corruption to be unable to


Page 176

115:29:55 solve a homicide?

215:29:57 A. That's not corruption at all. Overlooking known

315:30:01 information that no one will look into is corruption.

415:30:04 Q. What information is being overlooked?

515:30:06 A. There's suspect information that exists that

615:30:10 people will not go talk to this person.

715:30:12 Q. How do you know that isn't known by the

815:30:15 investigative agency?

915:30:16 A. I don't.

1015:30:19 Q. So you don't know whether they have talked to the

1115:30:21 suspect?

1215:30:22 A. In a roundabout way I do.

1315:30:25 Q. What's that round about way?

1415:30:27 A. In my own checking of the County's I-520 system,

1515:30:31 there were three names in particular that I looked up

1615:30:34 and I verified that those three people are not listed as

1715:30:38 contacts in any ongoing police report and specifically

1815:30:42 that Mandy Stavik investigation. They've never been

1915:30:46 talked to.

2015:30:47 Q. When have you -- when did you examine that I-520


2215:30:51 A. That was -- obviously that was before my

2315:30:58 termination, so that would have been while I would have

2415:31:00 still had a computer, so it would have had to have been

2515:31:04 before February of 2012, but within a few months of not


Page 177

115:31:08 having computer access anymore.

215:31:13 Q. What did you do with that information?

315:31:16 A. I attempted to pass it on to the lead detective

415:31:19 twice.

515:31:21 Q. Who is that?

615:31:22 A. It was Kevin Bowey. I don't know who it is now.

715:31:26 I attempted to pass that information along to a couple

815:31:28 of other people I know that had interest in that case

915:31:31 and nobody was listening.

1015:31:33 Q. What -- in what form did you pass on the


1215:31:37 A. It started off as verbal, verbal discussion, but

1315:31:42 Bowey made it perfectly clear he wasn't interested.

1415:31:44 Q. How did he do that?

1515:31:46 A. He didn't follow up with me, number one. Number

1615:31:50 two, he wasn't interested in hearing what I had to tell

1715:31:53 him. He didn't want to know.

1815:31:54 Q. Did you ever put that information in writing?

1915:32:00 A. With the circumstances that I was in at the time,

2015:32:02 nobody was going to listen to me.

2115:32:04 Q. Did you ever put that information into writing?

2215:32:07 A. I did.

2315:32:08 Q. And did you turn it into someone?

2415:32:13 A. I didn't put it in writing within the sheriff's

2515:32:16 office directly, but it was inferred if not spelled out


Page 178

115:32:21 indirectly on the Mandy Stavik Facebook page, which

215:32:25 actually is part of the problem that I'm in here.

315:32:29 Q. So as far as you know, there's no record in the

415:32:33 sheriff's office of the information you developed about

515:32:35 possible suspects in that case?

615:32:38 A. Sheriff Elfo personally knows about it. I know

715:32:42 for a fact he knows.

815:32:43 Q. Is that from reading a Facebook page?

915:32:45 A. It's from communications with Tara Adrian Stavik,

1015:32:45 I know that.

1115:32:45 THE REPORTER: "It's from communications

1215:32:45 with"...?

1315:32:54 THE WITNESS: Tara Adrian Stavik, who is

1415:32:54 related to the -- she's related to the Stavik family.

1515:32:58 She's married to the Stavik family.

1615:33:00 Q. Now, the information, is it conclusive evidence

1715:33:04 that these people committed those crimes -- or that

1815:33:07 crime?

1915:33:07 A. No, it's not. It is not, and I don't mean to

2015:33:10 imply that it is.

2115:33:11 Q. You realize that sometimes law enforcement

2215:33:15 officers get some information about a suspect, but they

2315:33:19 don't interview them until they have more because they

2415:33:22 want to go to that suspect with information that can

2515:33:26 trip them up on, isn't that correct?


Page 179

115:33:29 A. I do understand that.

215:33:30 Q. So they may be waiting to interview that

315:33:32 person --

415:33:32 A. Could be.

515:33:33 Q. -- when they have more information, and that

615:33:35 wouldn't be corruption, would it?

715:33:37 A. The discussions that I had, the information that

815:33:45 I had was received with surprise, they didn't know, they

915:33:50 hadn't heard it before.

1015:33:53 Q. So how was that surprise expressed?

1115:33:59 A. There was a name in particular that was brought

1215:34:01 up, and that person -- I got several different

1315:34:12 responses. One response from Bowey, it was a known, and

1415:34:18 I'm not talking to him. I'm not following that lead.

1515:34:22 Q. Did he say why?

1615:34:24 A. No, he didn't.

1715:34:25 Q. Who is that person, the suspect?

1815:34:31 A. In a general sense?

1915:34:34 Q. No, I want the specific name of the individual.

2015:34:38 A. Am I in any liability issue here if I say that

2115:34:42 name? Am I allowed to ask that?

2215:34:44 Q. You're in a deposition, you're a witness in a

2315:34:46 deposition. You have immunity for what you say in a

2415:34:49 deposition, other than in connection with this lawsuit.

2515:34:52 A. Okay. Neal Rothenbueller.

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115:34:52 THE REPORTER: Who?

215:34:58 THE WITNESS: Neal Rothenbueller.

315:34:58 Q. Spell that last name.

415:35:02 A. R-O-T-H-E-N-B-U-E-L-L-E-R, I think.

515:35:11 Q. Is there anyone else who is suspect in that crime

615:35:15 that you have attempted to pass onto investigators?

715:35:19 A. That name came about as an inference based on

815:35:27 firsthand observations, which I found to be rather

915:35:32 credible. There was another name that was floated as a

1015:35:36 possibility.

1115:35:39 Q. What's that name?

1215:35:40 A. Right off the top, I'm drawing a blank on it.

1315:35:44 But there was -- there was a local person that also

1415:35:46 matched the description of somebody that had been seen

1515:35:49 arguing with Mandy Stavik in her car just hour -- an

1615:35:54 hour or two before she disappeared. Essentially in a

1715:35:57 domestic violence situation.

1815:35:59 Q. And you don't remember the name of that person?

1915:36:01 A. Right off the top, I don't. It's somebody that

2015:36:04 lives in Acme is all I know. I'm sure I have note of it

2115:36:08 somewhere, I just have to go read through what I have,

2215:36:11 find the name again.

2315:36:13 Q. Do you have any evidence that Sheriff Elfo has

2415:36:18 committed a crime of any kind?

2515:36:23 A. As in a codified crime? An RCW?

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115:36:29 Q. I don't understand why you're evading a simple

215:36:32 question like that.

315:36:33 A. I don't think it's evasion at all to ask

415:36:34 qualifying or clarifying questions.

515:36:34 Q. Any crime you can think of, any crime that is

615:36:38 prosecutable.

715:36:39 A. To me that's an RCW crime. I just want to make

815:36:42 sure.

915:36:42 Q. Go ahead and answer the question then.

1015:36:44 A. Right off the top, I'm not. However -- well,

1115:36:52 let's just say no at present.

1215:36:56 Q. Do you consider Steve Harris to be a reasonable,

1315:37:07 perceptive and credible person?

1415:37:09 A. I would say so.

1515:37:10 Q. Would you characterize yourself as a strong

1615:37:18 supporter of Steve Harris in the last election?

1715:37:22 A. I would.

1815:37:31 Q. Why are you posting information about Sheriff

1915:37:39 Elfo's family on Ancestry.com?

2015:37:48 A. Why am I posting about Sheriff Elfo's family?



2315:37:59 A. I'm doing some genealogy research. I don't think

2415:38:08 I would qualify that as posting.



Page 182

115:38:45 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 15, do

215:38:50 you recognize that this is a page off of an Ancestry.com

315:38:59 site where you have gathered or posted some information

415:39:07 about Sheriff Elfo's family and others?

515:39:13 A. I do.

615:39:18 Q. And not only have -- does this contain

715:39:23 information about Sheriff Elfo's family, but it also has

815:39:28 family information about Cooley, Roger Funk, I don't

915:39:36 know who the Carbs, Larsons are, but Mead, Kevin Mead, a

1015:39:43 sheriff's office employee, Mundt, I think he's with the

1115:39:43 sheriff's office --

1215:39:43 THE REPORTER: What is that name?

1315:39:48 MR. KAMERRER: Mundt, M-U-N-D-T.

1415:39:49 A. No, that's -- that's somebody else.

1515:39:51 Q. Parks, who is Jeff Parks' family, and a second

1615:39:58 posting regarding Parks; is that correct?

1715:40:04 A. That is correct.

1815:40:05 Q. Mundt is not a deputy sheriff or sheriff's office

1915:40:11 employee?

2015:40:11 A. No.

2115:40:12 Q. How about Larson, is that a sheriff's office

2215:40:16 employee?

2315:40:16 A. It is.

2415:40:17 Q. And Carb, is that a sheriff's office employee?

2515:40:20 A. It is.

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115:40:20 Q. Why are you putting this information on

215:40:24 Ancestry.com?

315:40:25 A. This is all public information.

415:40:27 Q. Did you request permission from any of these

515:40:30 people to post information about their family tree or

615:40:34 family on the site?

715:40:36 A. It's all public information.

815:40:38 Q. Did you request permission from anyone to post --

915:40:42 A. I don't think you need permission for public

1015:40:42 information.

1115:40:45 Q. As a matter of courtesy or politeness --

1215:40:49 A. Courtesy.

1315:40:50 Q. -- did you think that that was something you

1415:40:52 didn't have to accord these people before publicly

1515:40:55 posting information about them?

1615:40:56 A. I think -- courtesy, yeah, okay.

1715:41:02 Public information is public information.

1815:41:05 Q. And you feel free to publish that kind of

1915:41:07 information about anyone; is that right?

2015:41:10 A. Including myself, which you'll notice is the bulk

2115:41:13 of the records. My entire family history is there as

2215:41:21 well. Everything.

2315:41:25 Q. Has anyone other than yourself given you

2415:41:28 permission to do this?

2515:41:29 A. From my own family?


Page 184

115:41:31 Q. No, anyone outside your family.

215:41:34 A. It's public information.

315:41:36 Q. No. The question is has anyone else given you

415:41:38 permission?

515:41:39 A. I don't need permission for public information

615:41:39 that I'm aware of.

715:41:44 Q. So you haven't sought it or received it; is that

815:41:47 right?

915:41:47 A. I would say that's correct.

1015:41:50 Q. What is your objective in publishing this

1115:41:54 information about people other than your own family?

1215:41:57 A. It's not being published by me. It's already

1315:42:00 been published.

1415:42:02 Q. What is your purpose behind including this

1515:42:05 information on a page that is to some extent within your

1615:42:10 control?

1715:42:11 A. It all comes from genealogical records and

1815:42:14 genealogical databases. I'm just simply bookmarking it

1915:42:17 for my own purposes.

2015:42:18 Q. What are your purposes?

2115:42:20 A. I have an interest.

2215:42:21 Q. What is that interest?

2315:42:22 A. My interest is that I want to understand the

2415:42:24 people that have taken significant actions to alter my

2515:42:29 life.


Page 185

115:42:31 Q. Have you found anything in that genealogical

215:42:34 research that tells you something that relates to your

315:42:37 interest?

415:42:40 A. I know I have, I'm just drawing a blank on what

515:42:49 it is right off the top.

615:42:51 Q. Have you done any republication of that

715:42:55 information on Facebook or anywhere else?


915:43:00 Q. Is this where you found the photographs of the

1015:43:05 tombstones with the Elfo name on them?

1115:43:08 A. Yes.

1215:43:08 Q. Have you published -- is this where you have

1315:43:20 found information relating to Patricia Rohweder, Sheriff

1415:43:27 Elfo's former wife?

1515:43:29 A. Yes.

1615:43:31 Q. So you've used this to make the implications

1715:43:35 about her and Sheriff Elfo that are posted on your

1815:43:39 Facebook page; is that right?

1915:43:41 A. Used it for the implications -- well, your

2015:43:49 characterization is notwithstanding. I -- it is the

2115:43:55 source of the information, yes.

2215:44:07 Q. Do you use or post to a site called From the

2315:44:41 Trenches World Report.com?

2415:44:45 A. That's a new one to me.

2515:44:47 Q. Do you know someone named William Maher,


Page 186

115:44:51 M-A-H-E-R, who posts to From the Trenches World

215:44:57 Report.com?

315:44:58 A. William Maher? I don't think I do.

415:45:06 Q. Do you use that name for postings you make

515:45:10 yourself?

615:45:11 A. I do not.

715:45:12 Q. Do you have anyone who is assisting you in

815:45:45 pursuing information about Sheriff Elfo, his former

915:45:51 wife, or any of the sheriff's office people who are

1015:45:56 identified on Exhibit 15?

1115:45:58 A. As in a partner or a paid service or...?

1215:46:08 Q. Anyone who is working with you in pursuit of that

1315:46:13 information, whether paid or not.

1415:46:15 A. There have been a couple of people contributing a

1515:46:19 couple tidbits here and there.

1615:46:21 Q. Who are those people?

1715:46:22 A. One is somebody by the name of Mouse.

1815:46:29 Q. Mouse?

1915:46:30 A. She goes by Mouse.

2015:46:31 Q. Do you know the person's real name?

2115:46:35 A. Katherine Mahaffey.

2215:46:40 Q. Is this a Whatcom County resident?

2315:46:45 A. Yes.

2415:46:45 THE REPORTER: Mahaffey?

2515:46:49 THE WITNESS: Mahaffey, M-A-H-A-F-F-E-Y.

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115:47:04 A. Another one is Barbara Mundt. And there might

215:47:09 have been a couple of little scattered tidbits here and

315:47:12 there, but those are two names I do remember.

415:47:17 Q. And how have they assisted you with information?

515:47:25 A. Right off the top, I don't recall. Maybe just --

615:47:33 along the lines of, hey, did you see this, or, hey, did

715:47:38 you see that or look what I found. I don't recall

815:47:43 exactly.

915:47:55 Oh, I do remember one. I do remember one.

1015:48:00 Q. What is that?

1115:48:02 A. It was a -- one was a mortgage record for a

1215:48:09 purchase of property or a transfer of ownership of

1315:48:12 property in Florida.

1415:48:20 Q. Who provided that?

1515:48:21 A. Mahaffey.

1615:48:27 Q. Why was that significant to you?

1715:48:31 A. It was significant to her.

1815:48:34 Q. Did she explain why it was significant to her?

1915:48:37 A. I think she did, I just don't remember what it

2015:48:46 was.

2115:48:46 Q. In one of your postings you made the statement

2215:48:50 that "Murphy was exonerated by Cooley of all charges."

2315:48:57 Do you recall what that was about?

2415:48:59 A. Murphy was exonerated? Without a reference to a

2515:49:12 post, I'm not sure I remember that. I don't think I

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115:49:16 remember that.

215:49:17 Q. You have objected to what you called a change in

315:49:22 the law enforcement code of ethics. What is the change

415:49:29 that you're referring to?

515:49:31 A. That, I do remember. I think the old code of

615:49:37 ethics was very well thought out, I thought it was

715:49:45 accountable, I thought it -- it was fitting.

815:49:54 The new code of ethics, if you can call it that,

915:49:58 doesn't really have anything to do with ethics at all.

1015:50:02 It has to do with -- with things that really are

1115:50:06 undefinable and amorphous.

1215:50:06 THE REPORTER: And what?

1315:50:11 THE WITNESS: Amorphous, gray.

1415:50:15 Q. Hasn't that same code of ethics been retained by

1515:50:30 the sheriff's office but added to?

1615:50:32 A. Not from what I recall. I couldn't tell you what

1715:50:36 it is today, but...

1815:51:02 MS. BESCHEN: Do you mind if we take a short

1915:51:04 break before five o'clock? At any point that's good for

2015:51:09 you.

2115:51:09 MR. KAMERRER: That's fine. We can take one

2215:51:11 now.


2415:51:18 p.m.



Page 189


216:06:31 at 4:06 p.m.

316:06:36 Q. Mr. Murphy, did you tell other deputies that if

416:06:44 Sheriff Elfo were to be re-elected in 2011, you would

516:06:47 quit the sheriff's office?

616:06:50 A. I -- I think I expressed futility and probably

716:07:00 made statements to that effect.

816:07:05 Q. Did you ever say that to Sheriff Elfo?

916:07:11 A. That I was going to quit?

1016:07:13 Q. Yes.

1116:07:14 A. No.

1216:07:19 Q. After the election when Sheriff Elfo had won in

1316:07:26 what can only be called a landslide of 75 percent of the

1416:07:31 voters, did he summon you to his office to talk about

1516:07:36 your declaration to other deputies that you would quit

1616:07:40 if he was re-elected?

1716:07:46 A. Yes.

1816:07:48 Q. And did you have a guild member representative

1916:07:54 there?

2016:07:54 A. I did.

2116:07:55 Q. Sergeant Harris?

2216:07:58 A. Flynn.

2316:07:58 THE REPORTER: Flynn?

2416:08:00 THE WITNESS: Flynn, F-L-Y-N-N.

2516:08:04 Q. And the sheriff was there with -- the other


Page 190

116:08:08 sheriff, Parks?

216:08:11 A. Yes.

316:08:11 Q. You have said that Sheriff Elfo threatened to

416:08:15 terminate you in that meeting; is that correct?

516:08:18 A. I don't think I used those words, no.

616:08:23 Q. What words did he say to you about that previous

716:08:28 declaration by you?

816:08:29 A. Well, in a very angry and hostile way, he did

916:08:38 reference those statements, absent some other statements

1016:08:45 that followed, but he did reference those statements.

1116:08:51 And in a roundabout way basically demanded my

1216:08:55 resignation.

1316:08:59 Q. What did he say in a roundabout way? What were

1416:09:07 the words that you considered roundabout way threatening

1516:09:10 to terminate you?

1616:09:11 A. It was the words and the behavior, it was the

1716:09:15 body language as well as the language he was

1816:09:17 communicating.

1916:09:19 He referenced that that he had been, I don't

2016:09:25 think he gave a name of who, but he said that a deputy I

2116:09:30 had spoken with communicated to him that I had been

2216:09:33 expressing concerns about my long-term ability to remain

2316:09:39 employed without being found in violation of something

2416:09:43 or some trumped up thing to terminate me. And in the

2516:09:48 midst of this, he -- just almost in an almost


Page 191

116:09:57 cartoon-like says: Do you realize there was an election

216:10:02 for sheriff? Which of course yes, I realize that.

316:10:05 You realize I was the winner of that election?

416:10:08 Yes, yes, sir, I do realize that. I've been

516:10:11 paying attention to the news. And during this, he

616:10:17 reaches into a -- some kind of little folder that's on

716:10:20 his desk and he pulls out a certificate and straight

816:10:24 arms the certificate out across the desk to my face and

916:10:28 says: As you can see, I am now the elected sheriff,

1016:10:31 again of Whatcom County.

1116:10:33 And the words and the mannerisms are essentially,

1216:10:37 You may resign now. And I got the message. But he

1316:10:42 didn't say, I expect that you'll resign now. It was

1416:10:47 just the way it was communicated.

1516:10:50 Q. So he was asking whether you were going to follow

1616:10:54 up on your declaration that you would quit if he was

1716:11:00 re-elected?

1816:11:01 A. Urging it.

1916:11:04 Q. What did you say?

2016:11:06 A. I said -- I did express some low points. I mean,

2116:11:16 I had already been through pretty lengthy internal

2216:11:20 investigations at that point and I think it was fairly

2316:11:23 clear to everybody within the agency that I had a target

2416:11:29 on my back, as it was said. So -- I said yes, I did

2516:11:34 have some low points, yes, I did express that. But


Page 192

116:11:37 after that -- and probably to the same people, I also

216:11:41 said, you know what, I didn't do anything wrong. Why am

316:11:44 I supposed to be the guy that bows up and leaves if I

416:11:47 didn't do anything wrong, and I decided I'm not going

516:11:50 to. I didn't do anything wrong, I'm not quitting.

616:11:55 Q. Did you say to Sheriff Elfo that your statements

716:11:58 about quitting if he was re-elected were not

816:12:02 declarative?

916:12:05 A. Yes, I think that's exactly the word I used.

1016:12:08 Q. What did you mean by "not declarative"?

1116:12:15 A. A private -- this was in a private setting

1216:12:21 amongst what I thought were friends at the time, a

1316:12:26 private expression of frustration about whether or not

1416:12:29 I'm going to be able to stay out of trouble or whether

1516:12:32 I'm going to have to constantly walk around with my eyes

1616:12:36 on the back of my head and watching out from not just

1716:12:39 what the threats on the street but the threats from in

1816:12:43 the office.

1916:12:44 I mean, it was an expression of frustration is

2016:12:50 what it was. So when I said it was not declarative, I

2116:12:53 didn't say, I am going to quit. That would be

2216:12:56 declarative. It was more like, Huh, the deck is so

2316:13:04 stacked against me. What chance does the little guy

2416:13:08 have? I should just quit.

2516:13:10 Q. Did you ever apply for a lateral transfer to


Page 193

116:13:14 another police agency while you still worked for the

216:13:19 sheriff's office?

316:13:20 A. No.

416:13:28 Q. In 2008 you were required to meet with a police

516:13:36 psychologist, Dr. Bill Ekemo, do you remember that?

616:13:39 A. I do.

716:13:40 Q. And did you understand why you were required to

816:13:43 do that?

916:13:43 A. I know what I was told.

1016:13:45 Q. What were you told?

1116:13:46 A. I was told it was a quote/unquote training

1216:13:49 session, but I understood it to be a backdoor psych

1316:13:54 eval.

1416:13:56 Q. Were you told what had prompted the referral to

1516:14:01 Dr. Ekemo?

1616:14:04 A. I was told it was a training session. It wasn't

1716:14:07 really explained to me how or why.

1816:14:10 Q. Were you aware that there were reports that you

1916:14:16 had said things to other deputies, including that there

2016:14:22 were helicopters following you around and people were

2116:14:25 watching you?

2216:14:29 A. I have actually experienced that.

2316:14:31 Q. So that was a true declaration on your part?

2416:14:34 A. That was a true statement.

2516:14:36 Q. And you believed that those people in the


Page 194

116:14:39 helicopters were watching you specifically?

216:14:42 A. Well, they who hovered over my house and shined a

316:14:46 flood light through my ceiling lights in my house, so,

416:14:50 yeah, I think it was intentional.

516:14:51 Q. Did that happen on more than one occasion?

616:14:53 A. Yes, it did.

716:14:54 Q. Did it happen when you were on duty as a deputy

816:14:57 sheriff?

916:14:57 A. No.

1016:15:05 Q. Did you make statements to other deputies to the

1116:15:09 effect that you thought someone was tampering with your

1216:15:13 computer when you were serving as a -- a patrol

1316:15:16 investigator?

1416:15:17 A. I know they were.

1516:15:20 Q. Did you say that to other deputies?

1616:15:24 A. I'm sure I did.

1716:15:25 Q. On more than one occasion?

1816:15:27 A. Probably.

1916:15:31 Q. Did that include a situation where you were told

2016:15:39 that Undersheriff James, the former undersheriff, asked

2116:15:45 to talk to you in his office and you went in there and

2216:15:49 returned carrying a call cap that the undersheriff had

2316:15:55 given you as a gift? Do you remember that?

2416:15:58 A. I do. Except the ball cap, I believe, he stopped

2516:16:03 by the detectives office to give that to me. I didn't


Page 195

116:16:06 bring that back. He gave -- he brought it in.

216:16:10 Q. After that meeting, do you recall that when you

316:16:13 reentered your workspace, you -- you began questioning

416:16:19 the other deputies there about who had been tampering

516:16:23 with your computer?

616:16:26 A. I don't recall that specific instance, but I do

716:16:28 know that somebody was tampering with my stuff. I

816:16:32 started locking my desk up at night because of it.

916:16:36 Q. Were you consistently told when you said those

1016:16:40 things to other deputies that no one was tampering with

1116:16:45 your computer?

1216:16:49 A. I don't remember anybody admitting to it. I

1316:16:53 don't recall ever accusing anybody, although, it was

1416:16:56 pretty obvious to me somebody had been tampering with my

1516:17:00 stuff.

1616:17:00 Q. On one occasion did you tell other deputies or

1716:17:09 another deputy that you were concerned about the fact

1816:17:13 that the Québec National Police were participating in

1916:17:20 some kind of training in Whatcom County and somehow they

2016:17:24 knew you were a Mohawk Indian member?

2116:17:29 A. I don't think it was characterized that way.

2216:17:34 Q. How was it characterized?

2316:17:36 A. I think it was from other conversations I would

2416:17:41 say that it was known of why I had some concerns about

2516:17:46 that. But there were one or two people in particular


Page 196

116:17:52 that made kind of a big show about wearing their Sûreté

216:17:52 du Québec T-shirts around.

316:17:52 THE REPORTER: "About wearing their"...?

416:18:01 THE WITNESS: Sûreté du Québec. It's the

516:18:04 Québec Provincial Police.

616:18:05 A. I think it was a sniper team training. I don't

716:18:08 recall what the training was, but it was Sûreté du

816:18:10 Québec.

916:18:13 And I know -- I know that the tensions are high

1016:18:15 between Sûreté du Québec and my side of the family from

1116:18:21 Kahnawake Reservation. They still to this day are

1216:18:25 trying to solve the murder of Corporal Lemay, which they

1316:18:32 believe is a murder, and they're still trying to find a

1416:18:35 native to pin it on.

1516:18:36 Q. So you thought that these folks from the Québec

1616:18:40 National Police were there in Whatcom County to observe

1716:18:44 you?

1816:18:44 A. That's not what I said.

1916:18:46 Q. What did you think they were there to do?

2016:18:48 A. I said people were going out of their way to

2116:18:51 parade the T-shirts around in front of me. They knew

2216:18:54 what it meant. They understood what they were doing.

2316:18:56 Q. So they were targeting you by wearing a

2416:18:59 particular T-shirt?

2516:19:00 A. They were taunting me.


Page 197

116:19:02 Q. Do you have any connection to some crime back in

216:19:05 Québec?

316:19:06 A. No, I don't.

416:19:07 Q. You were born in Québec; is that right?

516:19:10 A. I was.

616:19:11 Q. You're a naturalized citizen of the US?

716:19:14 A. I'm actually a natural American.

816:19:17 Q. Okay.

916:19:17 Do you have dual citizenship with Canada?

1016:19:20 A. I am a natural First Nations American.

1116:19:24 Q. But you went through a naturalization process in

1216:19:26 the US, didn't you?

1316:19:27 A. I did, but it was actually -- it was actually

1416:19:31 incorrect. It shouldn't have happened. I didn't know

1516:19:34 at the time. It shouldn't have happened, but it did.

1616:19:37 Q. Are you a member of the Mohawk tribe?

1716:19:40 A. I am.

1816:19:46 Q. Were you upset that someone named Penny worked in

1916:19:53 the sheriff's office and you thought she was connected

2016:19:55 to outlaw motorcycle gangs?

2116:19:58 A. I heard two questions there.

2216:20:05 Q. Well, it's really one question. But did Penny

2316:20:08 work at the front desk?

2416:20:09 A. She did.

2516:20:10 Q. Did you think she had connections with outlaw


Page 198

116:20:13 motorcycle gangs?

216:20:14 A. I know she did.

316:20:16 Q. And did you tell other deputies that would you

416:20:18 have to wear a black mask to protect the identities of

516:20:22 informants that you brought into the office?

616:20:25 A. Probably one of many jokes that were made. I

716:20:29 don't know.

816:20:29 Q. You told them that though?

916:20:30 A. It's possible. I don't know.

1016:20:32 Q. And how was Penny connected to outlaw motorcycle

1116:20:38 groups?

1216:20:40 A. Again, we're going back to, what, 2006. The

1316:20:47 names are escaping me, but it was her, I believe, niece

1416:20:53 that was either married to or living with one of the big

1516:20:56 name high profile Banditos, a patched member of the

1616:21:06 Banditos.

1716:21:06 THE REPORTER: A what member?

1816:21:08 THE WITNESS: A patched or high profile.

1916:21:08 THE REPORTER: A patched member.

2016:21:08 THE WITNESS: Full-patched member.

2116:21:09 A. And she was apparently seen in the company of --

2216:21:14 I mean, I guess family gatherings included Banditos, so

2316:21:26 infer what you will.

2416:21:33 Q. Did you ever bring that to the attention of

2516:21:35 anyone who was a supervisor of you?


Page 199

116:21:39 A. I did.

216:21:40 Q. Who?

316:21:40 A. Kevin McFadden, probably Undersheriff James as

416:21:52 well, probably Chief Parks at the time before he was

516:21:58 undersheriff.

616:22:00 Q. Did anything ever happen related to Penny that

716:22:10 suggested she had done something to tip off, protect or

816:22:18 otherwise favor any outlaw motorcycle gang person?

916:22:22 A. She did.

1016:22:23 Q. What was that?

1116:22:24 A. It was -- and again my memory is a little faded

1216:22:30 on it because it's a number of years ago. I don't

1316:22:34 remember who called, but a person of interest called the

1416:22:39 sheriff's office wanting to talk to the -- you know, the

1516:22:43 detective assigned to the toy investigation which was me

1616:22:46 at the time, and somehow -- I'm actually drawing a blank

1716:22:56 on how we put it together, but somehow we figured out

1816:23:00 that she had tipped off these people to turn in a bunch

1916:23:04 of toys that had been stolen in a big toy and comic book

2016:23:09 burglary, and it's really kind of escaping me at the

2116:23:13 moment how that happened, but we put the pieces together

2216:23:16 and realized that it was Penny that tipped them off.

2316:23:19 Because all of a sudden this guy is coming in out of the

2416:23:23 clear blue and wanting to go turn in toys when he's a

2516:23:26 suspect in the burglary.


Page 200

116:23:29 So that was an active investigation, that was one

216:23:31 big high profile active investigation that was

316:23:33 essentially tanked because of a compromise in the front

416:23:37 office.

516:23:39 Q. Even if the person turned in the toys that were

616:23:47 burglarized, that doesn't change the ability to

716:23:51 prosecute for burglary, does it?

816:23:54 A. I suppose not, but...

916:23:58 Q. You can't escape being charged with robbery if

1016:24:01 you give the money back to the bank?

1116:24:04 A. True.

1216:24:04 Q. Marvin Wolf, why is he suspicious to you?

1316:24:14 A. Aside from how he's always treated me?

1416:24:18 Q. I want to know every reason you have for being

1516:24:21 suspicious of Marvin Wolf.

1616:24:23 A. It starts at the very beginning from probably the

1716:24:26 very first time I ever met the man.

1816:24:28 Q. And he is an 80-plus-year-old man?

1916:24:34 A. I'm sure he is by now, yeah.

2016:24:36 Q. And he worked as a volunteer in the sheriff's

2116:24:40 office?

2216:24:40 A. Still does as far as I know.

2316:24:42 Q. What does he do?

2416:24:44 A. Couldn't tell you. I don't know.

2516:24:46 Q. Does have something to do with filing?


Page 201

116:24:48 A. That's the story.

216:24:51 Q. What do you think his unseemly character or

316:25:03 behavior is?

416:25:09 A. Unseemly or...?

516:25:09 Q. Behavior.

616:25:16 A. Why do I not like him?

716:25:18 Q. Yeah, why don't you like him, that's good.

816:25:20 A. Because of probably the very first time I met the

916:25:23 guy.

1016:25:23 Q. Okay. Tell me why then.

1116:25:25 A. Okay. Well, I had gone into the reception area,

1216:25:31 this was on duty, so I'm in my -- you know, my detective

1316:25:35 attire. Got my duty rig on, my shoulder holster with a

1416:25:41 gun and magazines, and the badge is right here

1516:25:44 (indicating) because it's -- at the time it's just where

1616:25:45 would we preferred to keep the badge, that way you could

1716:25:49 unstrap the shoulder holster and you could throw it in

1816:25:52 the cabinet and lock it up if you had to sit and type

1916:25:55 for a while or something like that.

2016:25:56 Well, anyway I had my shoulder holster on and I

2116:26:01 went into the front office to take care of whatever it

2216:26:03 was I went in there to find out about, and I don't even

2316:26:05 remember what it was, but Marvin Wolf comes up right

2416:26:08 behind me, I mean, so I turn around and he's, like,

2516:26:11 right there at my face. I'm tall, he's a little


Page 202

116:26:14 shorter.

216:26:15 And he's just right there. And he's glaring me

316:26:18 in the eye. And so I don't know what's going on with

416:26:22 him. And then he says, "Why do you wear your badge up

516:26:25 on your upper right chest like that?" And I'm thinking,

616:26:31 I don't know who this guy is, he's not in my chain of

716:26:34 command, I don't even know why he's there, and why is he

816:26:37 asking me these questions. I don't know.

916:26:39 So I'm a little standoffish from him and I'm

1016:26:42 like, "Because we do. Why is it of interest to you?"

1116:26:48 And he doesn't answer me and he just says, "Well,

1216:26:50 that should be down on your belt." So, again, I don't

1316:26:54 know who I'm talking to, but this guy is acting like

1416:26:57 he's kind of the general of the sheriff's office and

1516:27:00 he's giving me, the little peon private, the order to

1616:27:04 move the badge from here to here (indicating), and I

1716:27:07 said, "I don't think so. You're not in my chain of

1816:27:10 command, I don't work for you, I don't answer to you,

1916:27:13 and have a good day." And I turned around and walked

2016:27:17 and went back to the detective unit. So it goes all

2116:27:20 downhill from there.

2216:27:23 Q. Have you said that you think that Marvin Wolf is

2316:27:29 a agent of the Israeli secret police known as Mossad?

2416:27:34 A. I have said that's other people have said.

2516:27:38 Q. And you believe that?


Page 203

116:27:39 A. I don't know what to believe about the guy.

216:27:42 Q. You have -- you have posted statements to the

316:27:48 effect that you think he is a member of Mossad, haven't

416:27:51 you?

516:27:51 A. I don't think so. I don't have any evidence of

616:27:54 that.

716:27:55 Q. Do you find him suspicious in any way other than

816:28:01 his rudeness towards you?

916:28:03 A. He was very rude to me.

1016:28:06 Q. Do you find him suspicious in any other way than

1116:28:09 rudeness?

1216:28:10 A. He's strange character.

1316:28:15 Q. How so?

1416:28:17 A. He just -- his name seems to pop up in strange

1516:28:19 places and...

1616:28:20 Q. Where?

1716:28:20 A. He came up in the -- actually, he came up in the

1816:28:23 EHM case, the electronic home monitoring case. Turns

1916:28:27 out that he was heading the board of jail industry

2016:28:30 oversight and I was probably passing the guy every day

2116:28:35 in the hallway and I had no idea that he is the board

2216:28:38 chair of this electronic home monitoring thing that I

2316:28:45 was investigating for the state, not just for the

2416:28:49 county, for the whole state.

2516:28:51 Q. Well, he was retired by the time you encountered


Page 204

116:28:54 him, wasn't he?

216:28:55 A. Retired from the State?

316:28:57 Q. Yes.


516:29:01 Q. In what other way did you find him suspicious?

616:29:13 A. See, that's your word, "suspicious."

716:29:16 Q. Well --

816:29:18 A. I don't like the guy.

916:29:20 Q. In what other way do you have a basis for not

1016:29:25 liking him?

1116:29:26 A. He just seems to want to be in everybody's

1216:29:30 business, but he never seems to be really want to be up

1316:29:33 front about it, and I don't like that kind of person.

1416:29:38 If he's in my business, well, then put him on the chain

1516:29:42 of command and let's call him -- give him an assignment

1616:29:45 and let's call him lieutenant so-and-so then we'll

1716:29:48 report to him. But this backdoor hide him in the back

1816:29:51 room, pretend that he's filing and helping writing

1916:29:55 grants nonsense I think is foolish.

2016:29:58 Q. What do you think his real purpose is for being

2116:30:01 there?

2216:30:01 A. Couldn't tell you. Don't know.

2316:30:03 Q. You've done research on him, haven't you, like

2416:30:07 you do other people?

2516:30:08 A. I did.


Page 205

116:30:09 Q. And did you ever find any connection to any

216:30:13 Israeli government organization in his background?

316:30:18 A. I think what I was told was that he was a member

416:30:22 of some kind of -- Deputy Heinrich once told me that

516:30:28 Marvin was connected to Department of Homeland Security.

616:30:33 Deputy Heinrich said that he was either handpicked or

716:30:37 chaired by President Bush, and that piqued my curiosity

816:30:44 because he's essentially got no real title inside the

916:30:48 office, but he's supposed to be this big mucky-muck guy

1016:30:52 in national -- national security issues. That's a

1116:30:55 little strange to me.

1216:30:57 So in my research, I'm looking for the link,

1316:31:00 okay, where's his affiliation with national security?

1416:31:04 Where is -- where's his appointment by President Bush to

1516:31:09 the National Security Council. And I could never find

1616:31:13 it.

1716:31:14 So does that mean Heinrich is going around

1816:31:17 spreading misinformation or does that mean Marvin lied

1916:31:20 to Heinrich? I don't know.

2016:31:22 Q. Do you know whether he passed a background check

2116:31:25 before he volunteered or was allowed to volunteer at the

2216:31:28 sheriff's office?

2316:31:28 A. I have no idea.

2416:31:30 Q. Aside from Deputy Heinrich, did anyone else tell

2516:31:35 you information about Marvin Wolf that caused you to


Page 206

116:31:41 either dislike him further or be suspicious of him?

216:31:45 A. Oh, there was -- I don't remember names, but I --

316:31:52 I just -- what I do remember is that occasionally his

416:31:55 name would come up, like what does that guy really do?

516:31:59 And nobody knew. That's it.

616:32:02 Q. Who passed on the information to you suggesting

716:32:07 that Marvin Wolf was a member or past member of Mossad?

816:32:13 A. I don't remember. It could have been Heinrich.

916:32:26 I just -- I just -- I'm not sure. Heinrich seemed to

1016:32:31 get pretty close to him there for a while. Had coffee

1116:32:34 with him. It seemed like he had pretty regular morning

1216:32:37 meetings with the guy, so he seemed to know him.

1316:32:41 Q. When you communicated -- well, strike that.

1416:32:51 My recollection from the interviews is that you

1516:32:55 said you understood that information technology had

1616:33:02 approved you swapping out the hard drives on some of

1716:33:08 your laptop computers; is that right?

1816:33:10 A. Yes.

1916:33:12 Q. Did that approval come from -- well, strike that.

2016:33:22 From -- did that approval come in writing to you?

2116:33:29 A. If it did, I never found it. I don't think so.

2216:33:33 Q. Did you request that approval in writing?

2316:33:35 A. I don't think I would have, no.

2416:33:38 Q. Was it done by telephone?

2516:33:41 A. With the MDT, probably. With the previous


Page 207

116:33:48 computers, I think it was probably face to face, so I'm

216:33:51 not sure.

316:33:52 Q. Do you distinctly remember which employees of IT

416:33:57 you spoke to to get that permission?

516:34:01 A. I spoke to them, just about all of them, at one

616:34:04 time or another.

716:34:05 Q. About that subject?

816:34:06 A. That's the part I'm not sure about. I don't know

916:34:11 what conversation that came up in.

1016:34:13 Q. And how did you ask whether you could swap the

1116:34:19 hard drive?

1216:34:20 A. I don't think I even remember that. It was -- it

1316:34:24 was something so -- I don't know, it seemed

1416:34:28 insignificant to anything, unremarkable, unnoteworthy.

1516:34:35 It was just, like, hey, do you mind if I put a bigger

1616:34:39 hard drive in my computer. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, okay.

1716:34:41 Q. Did they ask you to turn in the old hard drive?

1816:34:44 A. I don't recall that.

1916:34:45 Q. Did they ask you to wipe the old hard drive with

2016:34:49 any sheriff's office information?


2216:34:52 Q. Did they ask you to let them wipe it, even if

2316:34:57 they were going to return it to you?


2516:35:03 Q. Did you ever ask permission from any supervisor


Page 208

116:35:07 of yours or any member of the administration of the

216:35:11 sheriff's office to swap a hard drive out of your laptop

316:35:17 computer?

416:35:18 A. I think I -- I'm pretty sure I did on the first

516:35:22 one.

616:35:22 Q. And who did you communicate with about that?

716:35:25 A. That would have been McFadden.

816:35:28 Q. Is he a sergeant?

916:35:30 A. He was the detective sergeant at the time.

1016:35:32 Q. And how did you ask him about that?

1116:35:35 A. I know I wouldn't have done it on my own. So

1216:35:44 I'm -- it's probably speculation on my part, but I -- I

1316:35:47 just know that I wouldn't have just gone ahead and done

1416:35:53 it. So I communicated with him every day about

1516:35:56 everything else. I don't know why I would have skipped

1616:35:58 that one.

1716:35:59 Q. What was his response to that request?

1816:36:01 A. Well, it -- the hard drive was swapped, so I

1916:36:05 guess favorable.

2016:36:06 Q. You don't remember what he said, is that --

2116:36:10 A. Not exactly. No, I don't.

2216:36:18 Q. Was that done in writing?

2316:36:20 A. No, not that I've been able to find.

2416:36:29 Q. Did you know of any other deputies who had

2516:36:31 swapped hard drives on their computers?


Page 209

116:36:34 A. I don't know anybody else that could.

216:36:36 Q. So you don't know anybody who did?

316:36:38 A. No.

416:36:38 MR. KAMERRER: Mark that one 15.

516:36:38 THE REPORTER: 16.

616:36:38 MR. KAMERRER: 16?

716:36:38 THE REPORTER: 16.

816:36:44 MR. KAMERRER: Sorry.


1016:37:06 Q. Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 16 --


1216:37:46 MS. BESCHEN: Is this different than Exhibit

1316:37:46 6?

1416:37:49 THE WITNESS: Oh, this is the second --

1516:37:49 MR. KAMERRER: This is for the second

1616:37:50 interview.

1716:37:51 Q. I'm just asking you to identify that as the

1816:37:57 advice of administrative interview that proceeded the

1916:38:01 May 3, 2012 interview.


2116:38:19 MS. BESCHEN: I think this is also Exhibit

2216:38:22 6.

2316:38:22 MR. KAMERRER: Pardon?

2416:38:23 MS. BESCHEN: You already made this Exhibit

2516:38:25 6.


Page 210

116:38:25 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Somewhere I've made a

216:38:30 mistake because I'm intending to have both of those

316:38:34 advice forms.

416:38:35 MS. BESCHEN: You already put both in.

516:38:36 MR. KAMERRER: Both of them?

616:38:38 MS. BESCHEN: Mm-hm.


816:38:41 THE WITNESS: This one has the Thursday, the

916:38:44 third correction on it.

1016:38:50 MR. KAMERRER: Would you prefer that I

1116:38:52 withdraw that exhibit or do you want to just --

1216:38:52 THE REPORTER: No. Go ahead. Just make it

1316:38:52 -- just pull it back and just mark something else number

1416:39:24 16.

1516:39:24 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. I think I know what

1616:39:26 happened. I think that had a 6 on it before I gave it

1716:39:29 to you and I scratched it off thinking it needed to be

1816:39:32 an additional one. The handwriting in the lower right

1916:39:35 of this document right here.

2016:39:36 MS. BESCHEN: So this is your 6?

2116:39:37 MR. KAMERRER: Yeah, that's my 6, that's the

2216:39:40 problem. Thank you for catching that.

2316:39:52 (Exhibit No. 16 remarked.)

2416:40:01 Q. Showing you what's been marked Exhibit 16, I'll

2516:40:06 represent to you, Mr. Murphy, that this is a copy of the


Page 211

116:40:10 transcript of the interview of you by Inspector Cooley

216:40:16 on March -- or excuse me -- May 3, 2012. Assuming that

316:40:23 this is complete, do you recognize this as a transcript

416:40:27 of that interview?


616:40:37 Yes.

716:40:37 Q. I'm going to ask you some more questions about

816:40:49 that, but I want to go back to Dr. Ekemo. I forgot to

916:40:54 ask all my questions about that.

1016:40:56 Did Dr. Ekemo give you counseling at the meeting

1116:41:00 you had with him?

1216:41:03 A. He seemed to want to talk about what was going

1316:41:08 on. I don't know that he ever characterized it that

1416:41:12 way.

1516:41:12 Q. Did you take any psychological tests, such as the

1616:41:15 MMPI, for example, for Dr. Ekemo?

1716:41:18 A. No.

1816:41:19 Q. Did it consist completely of an interview?

1916:41:22 A. I had the impression that he was interviewing me

2016:41:26 about what was going on, yeah.

2116:41:27 Q. Did he appear to have information, documentary or

2216:41:35 otherwise, about you going into that interview?

2316:41:39 A. He -- as near as I can recall, he implied or

2416:41:49 inferred to me that questions had been raised, but I

2516:41:55 don't think he really wanted to define where that came


Page 212

116:41:58 from or why.

216:41:59 Q. Okay.

316:41:59 A. So he just asked me, "Tell me from your point of

416:42:03 view what's going on."

516:42:05 Q. And this was in 2008; is that right?

616:42:09 A. I only met with him once, so yeah.

716:42:11 Q. Okay. And did he give you counseling about

816:42:15 things like stress management or other things that

916:42:23 related to your perception of what other people were

1016:42:28 thinking or doing?

1116:42:29 A. Not that I recall. I remember him wanting to

1216:42:35 know more about what was going on. He wanted me to

1316:42:38 explain to him, I guess what led to his being called.

1416:42:44 So I told him the circumstances of what was happening,

1516:42:47 and I remember him being pretty favorable to my position

1616:42:51 about what was going on and why I was upset about it.

1716:42:54 Q. Did you see any follow-up documentation about

1816:42:57 that?

1916:42:57 A. Never did. And I asked for it, but I never saw

2016:43:07 it.

2116:43:07 Q. Did he tell you to be cautious about anything?

2216:43:18 A. I don't recall anything like that, no.

2316:43:21 Q. Did he tell you to be careful about misperceiving

2416:43:28 the intent of other people?

2516:43:32 A. I don't recall that.


Page 213

116:43:33 Q. Okay.

216:43:41 Now, I want to go back to the transcript of the

316:43:43 May 3, 2012 interview. And just to set the stage, you

416:43:54 recognize this was after the March 1, 2012 interview and

516:44:02 after the email that you sent to Lieutenant Hester --

616:44:18 THE REPORTER: Hester?

716:44:18 MR. KAMERRER: Yes, Hester.

816:44:19 Q. -- correct?

916:44:19 A. Correct, yes.

1016:44:20 Q. And I want you to turn to Page 6, Line 233.


1216:44:39 Q. And I'm just going to read the portion of this

1316:44:43 and then I'll ask you a question. Starting at Line 233.

1416:44:52 Question: Did you ever take that specific hard

1516:44:58 drive out of that computer?

1616:44:59 Answer: I thought I just asked that, but yes, I

1716:45:03 did.

1816:45:05 Question: Okay. Why did you do that?

1916:45:09 Answer: It was on my determination just too

2016:45:13 small of a hard drive for what I needed.


2216:45:19 A. Looks to be to me, yeah.

2316:45:22 Q. And did you know that he was referring to the

2416:45:25 Toughbook computer when you gave those answers?

2516:45:28 A. I think so, yeah.


Page 214

116:45:29 Q. And if you wanted to increase the size of the

216:45:37 hard drive in the Toughbook computer and it contained an

316:45:43 80 gigabyte drive, you would have to get a hundred or

416:45:50 whatever, 160 if they make them, drive, wouldn't you?

516:45:55 A. It would have to be bigger than 80 to increase

616:45:59 it, yes.

716:46:01 Q. Do you have a recollection of purchasing a larger

816:46:05 than 80 gigabyte drive to install in that computer?

916:46:09 A. For that purpose, no, I don't.

1016:46:13 Q. For any purpose?

1116:46:15 A. Well, I have larger drives but for that purpose,

1216:46:19 no.

1316:46:21 Q. Were the larger drives purchased for personal

1416:46:25 laptop computers?

1516:46:27 A. Personal laptop? No.

1616:46:30 Q. The other drives that you brought today that are

1716:46:35 suitable for use in a laptop, where have those been

1816:46:38 used?

1916:46:40 A. As far as I know, just backup, just for backups.

2016:46:45 Q. So as far as you recall they've never been

2116:46:47 installed in a laptop computer itself?

2216:46:50 A. As far as I can recall, yes.

2316:46:54 Q. What did you do to determine what the size of the

2416:47:05 hard drive was in the Toughbook computer, as it was

2516:47:09 originally issued to you?


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116:47:12 A. I think I have already told you, I don't

216:47:12 remember.

316:47:15 Q. Is that something you can do by looking at system

416:47:18 properties on a computer?

516:47:19 A. Yes.

616:47:20 Q. Did you ever do that?

716:47:21 A. I'm sure I did.

816:47:23 Q. You just don't recall what you saw?

916:47:25 A. Correct.

1016:47:26 Q. If you wanted to double the size of the hard

1116:47:33 drive, wouldn't you look at that to know what you needed

1216:47:36 to purchase?

1316:47:36 A. Sounds reasonable to me.

1416:47:38 Q. Did you do that?

1516:47:39 A. Like I said, I don't recall.

1616:47:42 Q. Then if you turn to Page 11 of Exhibit 16, or the

1716:47:58 transcript?


1916:48:07 Q. And go down to Line 470?


2116:48:21 Q. I'll read a portion of that and then I'll ask you

2216:48:25 a question.

2316:48:25 Question: Okay. Okay. In September of 2010,

2416:48:29 you have turned in the Toughbook so it could be

2516:48:32 reconfigured by information technology for use with the


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116:48:36 County's new Windows Server platform. What drive was in

216:48:41 the Toughbook at that time?

316:48:43 Answer: I believe that was the drive that I

416:48:46 installed in the computer.


616:48:50 A. Yes.

716:48:51 Q. And you were referring to a drive that you

816:48:56 installed in that computer before the migration; is that

916:49:01 correct?

1016:49:01 A. No, I don't think so. I think I was probably

1116:49:07 referring to what I believed at the time, which was

1216:49:12 probably speculation.

1316:49:13 Q. Was the event that Cooley referred to as being

1416:49:20 reconfigured by information technology, was that the

1516:49:24 migration as we've referred to it earlier?

1616:49:29 A. Yes, yes.

1716:49:30 Q. Okay.

1816:49:44 MS. BESCHEN: We've got to be out of here in

1916:49:46 ten minutes.

2016:49:48 MR. KAMERRER: I know.

2116:49:48 THE REPORTER: It takes me a few minutes to

2216:49:55 take everything down, and the videographer too.

2316:49:55 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Let me -- let's go off

2416:49:56 the record right now.

2516:49:59 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Off the record at


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116:50:00 4:49 p.m.



416:52:52 at 4:52 p.m.

516:52:59 MR. KAMERRER: For the record, I have a

616:53:01 number of additional questions. I'm uncertain about

716:53:07 their importance to the overall case and I would prefer

816:53:15 not to remove ourselves from here and reassemble in your

916:53:21 office to try to finish up, instead I would prefer to

1016:53:24 get a copy of the transcript, review it and see whether

1116:53:28 I have some essential questions that I have to ask

1216:53:29 within the final hour of time that I have for this

1316:53:31 deposition.

1416:53:32 And so that's my intention, and you can

1516:53:37 disagree if you want, but that's what I intend to do.

1616:53:40 MS. BESCHEN: We object to that and ask that

1716:53:43 you finish the deposition today. And we're more than

1816:53:49 willing to go talk to the attorney general's office and

1916:53:51 see if we can stay in here for more time.

2016:53:51 MR. KAMERRER: Oh, then that's --

2116:53:53 MS. BESCHEN: Otherwise, we can -- our

2216:53:55 office is just upstairs, so it shouldn't be...

2316:53:59 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. That's fine. It's

2416:54:00 just it's likely to take a considerable disassembly

2516:54:03 process here for what could be 20 minutes of questions.


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116:54:07 Some of that of course depends on how long the answers

216:54:11 are, but I am thinking that I'm that close and I thought

316:54:15 it was absolute that we had to be out of here at 5.

416:54:18 That's what I'm trying to accomplish.

516:54:20 MS. BESCHEN: Why don't you -- we go on the

616:54:21 record and you can continue going with questioning and

716:54:24 I'll have somebody check with them and get that figured

816:54:27 out?

916:54:27 MR. KAMERRER: Okay. Okay. We're on the

1016:54:29 record now.

1116:54:29 MS. BESCHEN: Oh, we're still on the record?

1216:54:31 Okay.


1416:55:29 Q. Okay. Ready for a question?

1516:55:32 A. I am.

1616:55:33 Q. If you removed a hard drive from a computer that

1716:55:39 contained law enforcement programs and files and didn't

1816:55:47 remove those programs and files from that computer or

1916:55:51 return that hard drive to its owner, the County, could

2016:56:00 such a hard drive be inserted in another non-County

2116:56:09 owned hard drive and access law enforcement websites or

2216:56:13 law enforcement sites that otherwise are accessible by

2316:56:19 police officers?

2416:56:22 MS. BESCHEN: She said absolutely not, not

2516:56:24 beyond 5. Nobody will wait to help us.


Page 219


216:56:27 Q. Let me get an answer to that question.

316:56:30 A. Can -- if a hard drive were removed, can it be

416:56:34 put into another computer and used to access law

516:56:38 enforcement?

616:56:39 Q. Yes.


816:56:41 Q. Why not?

916:56:42 A. I think it comes down to probably encryption

1016:56:47 keys, probably comes down to specific login information.

1116:56:52 I -- there's a lot of safeties and protocols built in

1216:56:59 that I think prevent that from being used in any other

1316:57:02 computer. I don't think it would work.

1416:57:06 Q. If the person who had that hard drive and

1516:57:09 installed it in a non-County owned computer had the

1616:57:15 passwords to access those sites, could it be used for

1716:57:19 that purpose?

1816:57:20 A. My understanding is no. I've never tried it, so

1916:57:26 I can't say for sure.

2016:57:30 Q. Okay.

2116:57:30 MR. KAMERRER: All right. Let's go off the

2216:57:32 record.


2416:57:34 p.m.



Page 220

116:57:53 MR. KAMERRER: I'm just going to stand on my

216:58:01 last position about finishing this deposition at some

316:58:06 other time. And I understand your objection

4 (Signature reserved.)

5 (Deposition adjourned at 4:58 p.m.)

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1 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) ) SS: C E R T I F I C A T E

2 COUNTY OF WHATCOM )

3 I, MELONIE D. RAINEY, a Certified Court Reporter

4 in and for the State of Washington do hereby certify; That the foregoing is true and correct to

5 the best of my skill, ability, and knowledge, taken on the date and at the time and place as shown on

6 Page Two hereto; That I am not related to any of the parties

7 to this litigation and have no interest in the outcome of said litigation;

8 Witness my hand and seal this 20th day of February, 2014.

9

10 __________________________________

11 MELONIE D. RAINEY, CCR, RPR IN AND FOR THE STATE OF

12 WASHINGTON, RESIDING IN MARYSVILLE

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Page 222

1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON

2 AT SEATTLE______________________________________________________

3PAUL MURPHY, together )

4 with his marital community, ) )

5 Plaintiff, ) )

6 vs. ) NO. CV13 727 JCC )

7 WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON, a )government entity; WHATCOM )

8 COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT; )WILLIAM J. ELFO, together with)

9 his marital community, ) )

10 Defendants. )______________________________________________________

11 NOTICE TO READ

12 ______________________________________________________ TO: Emily Beschen, Attorney at Law

13 Law Office of Robert Butler 103 E Holly Street, Suite 512

14 Bellingham, WA 9822515 Please have PAUL MURPHY, Witness contact

our office to make arrangements to come in to read 16 and sign his deposition noting any errors that may have

been made in the transcript. This must be done within 17 30 days from the date of this letter or three days prior

to trial, pursuant to Washington Reports 34A, Rule (e)18 USC 28.

If the signing does not take place within19 the specified time period, the original transcript

will be filed with the question attorney.20 Your prompt attention to this matter is

greatly appreciated. If there are any questions I21 can assist you with, please feel free to call.22 _________________________________

CORPOLONGO & ASSOCIATES23 114 W. Magnolia St., Suite 400-110

Bellingham, WA 9822524 360-671-6298

February 24, 201425 CC: W. Dale Kamerrer, Liz Gallery


Page 223

1 TO THE WITNESS:

2 PLEASE READ YOUR DEPOSITION CAREFULLY. On this correction sheet make notes of any errors I have made. Please sign

3 this sheet at the bottom, and return this to me at 114 West Magnolia Street, Suite 400-110, Bellingham, WA 98225.

4 If you have any questions, please feel free to call me at 360-671-6298.

5 _______________________________________________________ page-line correction

6 _______________________________________________________

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23 Signed and dated this ____ day of ___________, 2014.

24 See: Wash. Reports 34A, __________________________

25 Rule 30(e) USC 28 PAUL MURPHY


Page 224

1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT2 FOR THE WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON3 AT SEATTLE

______________________________________________________4 PAUL MURPHY, together )

with his marital community, )5 Plaintiff, )

)6 vs. ) NO. CV13 727 JCC

)7 WHATCOM COUNTY, WASHINGTON, a )

government entity; WHATCOM )8 COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT; )

WILLIAM J. ELFO, together with)9 his marital community, )

Defendants. )10 ______________________________________________________

RE: Deposition of: PAUL MURPHY 11 Taken on: February 4, 2014

Filed on: 12 Please be advised that the above-referenced deposition

will be filed with: W. Dale Kramerrer, Attorney at Law 13 LAW, LYMAN, DANIEL,

KAMERRER & BOGDANOVICH, P.S.14 2674 RW Johnson Blvd, SW

P.O. Box 1188015 Tumwater, WA 9851216 _____ The Deponent waived signature.

_____ The deposition has been read and signed by the17 Deponent.

_____ No changes have been made to the deposition.18 _____ The attached CORRECTIONS sheet reflects the

changes.19 _____ The Deponent failed to appear at our office or

notify us pursuant to CR 26.30(e).20 _____ The Deponent refused to sign the deposition.

_____ Other.21

_________________________________22 PATTIE LONG, OFFICE ADMINISTRATOR

CORPOLONGO & ASSOCIATES23 114 W. Magnolia St, Suite 400-110

Bellingham, WA 9822524 (360) 671-629825 CC: Emily Beschen, Liz Gallery

Documents

Paul Murphy, former WCSO Deputy - Deposition Transcript (Federal) - Redacted