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Crash! Bang! The Large Hadron Collider | WBUR and NPR - On Point with Tom Ashbrook

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TODAY IS MONDAY, MAY 11, 2009

Thursday, September 11, 2008 at 11:00 AM EDTCrash! Bang! The Large Hadron Collider


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Computer screens in the Atlascontrol room capture themovements of the first beamscirculating the Large HadronCollider in Geneva, Switzerlandon September 10, 2008.

Post your comments below

They flipped the switch, the proton’s flew, and the world hasn’t blown up, yet.

Three hundred feet underground on the French-Swiss border, the biggest physics experiment inhistory launched yesterday. The Large Hadron Collider.

The biggest atom smasher ever built: a seventeen-mile collision track, and sky-high hopes for cosmicbreakthroughs in our understanding of the universe — of muons and gluons and quarks, of darkmatter and black holes and — maybe — whole new space-time dimensions.

This hour, On Point: Particle physics, a giant new tool, the shape of the universe, and you.

You can join the conversation. What are your hopes and fears for the earth’s largest atom smasher?What’s the cosmic question you want answered when it makes its own big bang?

-Tom Ashbrook

Guests:

Joining us from Paris is Adrian Cho, staff writer for Science magazine. He was at theEuropean Organization for Nuclear Research in Switzerland yesterday when they firedup the Large Hadron Collider for its first big test.

Joining us from Driggs, Idaho, is Leon Lederman. He’s an experimental physicist, anddirector emeritus of the Fermilab atom smasher, outside Chicago. He won the NobelPrize for Physics in 1988 for his work on neutrinos, and he coined the term “Godparticle” for the Higgs boson with his 1992 book “The God Particle: If the Universe is theAnswer, What is the Question?”

Joining us from New York is Lisa Randall. She’s a professor of theoretical physics atHarvard University, renowned for her work on string theory and author of “WarpedPassages: Unraveling The Mysteries Of The Universe’s Hidden Dimensions.”


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Also from New York, we’re joined by Janna Levin. She’s a professor of physics andastronomy at Columbia University, and author of the novel “A Madman Dreams ofTuring Machines.”

More links:

The official site of the Large Hadron Collider at CERN explains the science behind all theexcitement.

Nature magazine’s website offers an excellent interactive diagram of the LHC, part of its specialsection on the collider. Also worth a visit is the BBC’s guide to the LHC.

And just for laughs, here’s a (sort of) rap video about the LHC…

Tags: Large Hadron Collider, physics, science

Listener comments


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How does the LHC differ from the SCSC?

Could there be a silver lining in the death of SCSC?

Posted by Frederic C., on September 11th, 2008 at 11:23 am EDT

Yes, science has provided enormous unforeseen benefits to humanity, however, I’ld like toknow some possible benefits that the speakers think this device will provide to humanity?

Posted by Kash Haffa, on September 11th, 2008 at 11:57 am EDT

Has the Urantia Book been of any help to the understanding of this enterprise?

Posted by reed, on September 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pm EDT

Great show!! If only I could understand more readily, but I love thinking about something sohuge and not connected with our individual political obsessions. A good break for the mind! Idon’t know if that was the point of this “On Point” segment, but it worked that way for me.Thanks! PJS

Posted by PJS, on September 11th, 2008 at 12:15 pm EDT

Enjoyed the program. My daughter, a high school student at Phillips Andover,spent time withthe scientists at the program last summer and was able to interview some of the most seniorpeople such as John Ellis, one of the masterminds of particle physics.

Carolyn won a grant from her school to interview these people. Her goal was to look at thehuman element behind the science and to make the science accessible to everyday people. Thefolks at CERN treated her as though she was from the NY Times. Carolyn wrote an excellentblog on her visit at http://lhcmatters.blogspot.com.

Posted by Gary B, on September 11th, 2008 at 2:03 pm EDT

“Yes, science has provided enormous unforeseen benefits to humanity, however, I’ld like toknow some possible benefits that the speakers think this device will provide to humanity?”-Kash Haffa

I think the experiments are worth doing for their own sake, but if you insist: the mostimmediate benefits will likely be in micro-electronics and nanotechnology. After that, whoknows.


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Posted by Itzac, on September 11th, 2008 at 3:13 pm EDT

I think the experiments are worth doing for their own sake, but if you insist: the mostimmediate benefits will likely be in micro-electronics and nanotechnology. After that, whoknows

I agree on both counts!

Human beings are wired up to be curious and to continually strive to understand the worldaround them, building cognitive models of their world and testing them out. This hastremendous survival value, so much so that it’s hardwired into our nature - a basic appetitivedrive like sex or tasty food - this is a fundamentally human thing to do.

In addition to that it may well turn out to have practical value - that would be great, but to meit’s icing on the cake.

BTW, most people don’t realize how amazing the technology is in their own possession. Forexample, flash memory is based on quantum mechanics (specifically quantum tunneling) - thevery thing Einsten didn’t believe because he though that “God doesn’t play dice with theuniverse.” Yet today the thing Einstein didn’t believe is in all our iPods and cellphones.

Posted by Peter Nelson, on September 11th, 2008 at 4:34 pm EDT

Iam just wondering, What if there was no Big Bang for the creation of this world and Godreally does exist and he is the one created the world….. what will happend to this experientthen?? Billions of dollars wasted?

Posted by Deeno, on September 11th, 2008 at 7:47 pm EDT

“Iam just wondering, What if there was no Big Bang for the creation of this world and Godreally does exist and he is the one created the world….. what will happend to this experientthen?? Billions of dollars wasted?” -Deeno

However you believe the universe came into being, it has the appearance of being governed byrules, and the LHC will help us better understand those rules.

Posted by Itzac, on September 11th, 2008 at 8:13 pm EDT

At some point do you think god will be unleash her wrath with us calling her he?

Posted by Freddy, on September 11th, 2008 at 8:29 pm EDT


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At some point will god unleash her wrath upon us for calling her, “him?”

Posted by Freddy, on September 11th, 2008 at 8:31 pm EDT

Hi Itzac,

Very nicely written……. Thanks for a simple but very productive explanation.

Posted by Deeno, on September 11th, 2008 at 8:43 pm EDT

Just wanted to say how much I enjoy your shows. Very illuminating and educating. Just onequestion: why is George Bush treated with kid gloves? I am reading Vincent Bugliosi’s book onthe case for charging Bush with murder and am not aware of any network/paper debating thissubject.Will you?Thanks so muchPeter

Posted by Peter Corfield, on September 11th, 2008 at 9:03 pm EDT

The show sparked a great interest in me, as it always does. Any suggestions of books forsomeone who is just now attempting to grasp these concepts (quantum mechanics fordummies)? Thanks! Robert

Posted by Robert Schrautemeier, on September 11th, 2008 at 11:39 pm EDT

As a mathematical physicist and having immensely enjoyed our visit to CERN with your grouplast year I have serious doubts that the Higgs Boson will be found because a successful andpublished algebraic theory for the Standard Model developed over many years does not find aplace for the Higgs.

Posted by Dr. J.A. de Wet, on September 12th, 2008 at 1:41 am EDT

The universe is random. That’s guaranteed. There’s no omniscient God. The universe is muchtoo violent an entity to have an omnipotent being controlling it. There’s no doubt thateverything in the universe happens by cosmic accident and the notion of a superbeingcontrolling everything is wishful thinking at best. The most fascinating experiment being


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conducted on the LHC is the one involving extra dimensions, string theory. If the universe doeshave 11 dimensions, that really opens up a Pandora’s Box.

Posted by steve e., on September 12th, 2008 at 4:09 am EDT

Everything is random? Do you realize the slim, slim, slim margin by which it’s possible for lifeas we know it to exist? The slightest change in gravity, stronger or weaker, would havetremendous effects on the life cycles of stars, and their ability to produce energy needed forlife. The strong and weak nuclear forces, as well, are finely balanced. Then think of like itself;DNA is very much like a file system in and of itself; it’s a helix of data that’s read by the bodyand manifests itself as programming on how to build a life-form. Does such a thing really seemrandom to you?

I won’t argue theology here. I will say that the data we have on hand agrees that from the solarsystem level onwards, (which is all we can investigate in detail,) natural processes areresponsible for the formation of stars and planets. However, one should not confuse naturalprocesses with random processes. Gravity is a constant, not a random value. While a star’soutput of energy varies, it is not random; the fluctuations may be variable, and chaotic, butcertainly not random. For instance, we can predict the life cycle of the youngest star based onthe spectrum of light it emits and it’s mass. Things like this aren’t the product of a randomuniverse, but a universe that follows rules. There absolutely is order in this universe, even ifthere are chaotic elements, as well. And in the end, even chaos can be quantified, to a degree.

Posted by Lurkily, on September 12th, 2008 at 7:55 am EDT

The universe is random. That’s guaranteed. There’s no omniscient God. The universe is muchtoo violent an entity to have an omnipotent being controlling it. There’s no doubt thateverything in the universe happens by cosmic accident and the notion of a superbeingcontrolling everything is wishful thinking at best

Youi don’t seem to understand what “random” means.

If the universe were random we’d be in a state of complete entropy. Obviously we’re not, elsewe wouldn’t be having this conversation. You don’t need some omniscient being to havephysical laws.

Posted by Peter Nelson, on September 12th, 2008 at 8:59 am EDT

Thank you to ON POINT and the Guest of the Crash! Bang! The Large Hadron Collider show.

I thought the Guest explained the sceince and theories behind this experiment in a simple andentertaining way that brough a lay person like myself to understand it.

we need more shows and sciencists like these to keep the mob at bay.


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well done, keep up the good work.

one question I wish I could have asked. What if the experiment doesn’t produce proof oftheory they are looking for? is it back to square one? is Einstein wrong?

Posted by Fred, on September 12th, 2008 at 10:27 am EDT

one question I wish I could have asked. What if the experiment doesn’t produce proof oftheory they are looking for? is it back to square one? is Einstein wrong?

The great thing about these experiments is that there is no “bad” result. If the Higgs is found itwill confirm the Standard Model; if not then it means the Standard Model is wrong whichmeans lots of physics goes back the drawing board. Either result is exciting.

Editorial Comment - many people like to comapare science and religion and say that science isjust another kind of “faith”. But the above illustrates why that’s not true. Scientists don’t mindupsetting the apple cart and proving conceptual models people have held for years to be wrong.In fact they think it’s kind of fun and go to great efforts to do so.

A religion would never do that - religious truth is considered Truth with a capital “T”.Christianity would never devote vast resources (like LHC) to something that might disprove theRessurrection. But scientific truth is truth with a lower-case “t” - it’s provisional, and is goodonly as long as its predictions work out - if not, it’s out on its ear!

Posted by Peter Nelson, on September 12th, 2008 at 4:59 pm EDT

Consumer outcome cover Commission, in support with the stubborn named less than, todayannounced a unbidden revocation of the following consumer product. The revocationednotebook computer epitomes are the VAIO VGN-TZ100 series, VGN-TZ200 series,VGN-TZ300 series and VGN-TZ2000 series. Consumers should impede using the revocationednotebook computers right now and ring up Sony to end if their notebook is affected. Computerkit Disposal - Recycle, give Or Do Nothing? These days, any computer that is more than 3years old determination be noticeably slower in its appearance than a computer that has beenmanufactured inthe after few months. This in apply has led to the puzzler of what one should do with theswiftly growing stockpile of old computers and other electronic appurtenances. Computer outfitthat isn’t entranced attend to of by an authorized computer recycler is most right to end up inlandfills and ripen into toxic computer waste. A rating sized cathode ray tube (CRT) trackcontains more than two kilos of foremost - the toxicity of which has been manifestly known forcenturies. Apple, Dell, Gateway, IBM, Lexmark, Hewlett Packard, Epson, NEC - areoperation some epitome of computer recycling program. The mark of the computer recycler calling form is that of important destruction. There choice regularly be a feecharged by these recyclers to admit old computer tackle (distinctively when it comes to videomonitorstracks) but the tariff of disposal determination be significantly less than the price of not


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disposing of the computer components, both in terms of unequivocal calling tariffs and passiveprices to the environment. IBM has done it by selling Computer Mouse Help calling and relyingon services. And Apple shook things up with the iPod andnow the iPhone. If Dell can convey the lessons of squeezing the expenditures from alow-border trade like edifice computers and transform that into plateful body, convey andperform clouds most efficiently, it could win. GE sells billions in tackle and services toproviders. The spoon out came from the WSJ, which reports sources saying Dell isapproaching draw together manufacturers

Posted by Jawpiomiacini, on September 21st, 2008 at 10:36 pm EDT

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Friday, May 8, 2009

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PAST SHOWS ABOUT ON POINT TOM ASHBROOK WAYS TO …randall.physics.harvard.edu/RandallCV/NPR On Point... · particle” for the Higgs boson with his 1992 book “The God Particle: