Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 3 NOVEMBER 1914

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

AdJournment. [3 NovEMBER.] Que~tions. 1655

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TrESDXf, 3 NovE:l!BFR, 1914.

The SPEAKER (Han. "\V. D. Armstrong, Lockyer) tack the chair at h.df-p;,st 3 o'clock.

LOCAL AUTHORITIES PATRIOTIC CONTRIBUTIONS BILL-TOO-\Y00111Bc\ P A'l'RIOTIC FUND BILL-FRIE:'\I"DLY SOCIETIES ACT ·\:\IENDMENT BILL.

The SPEAKER announced tho receipt of mo•,3ages from His Excc\:ency the Lieuten­ant-Governor assenting to these Bills.

Ql_'ESTIONS.

ALLOWAcCE TO PoLICE ON BusH PATROL DuTY.

Mr. BERTRAM (Jiaree), on behalf of Mr. Murphy, asked tho Home Secretary-

" 1. Is he aware of the fact that the police performing bush patrol duty are not b0ing paid the allowance gran'ted by Parliament in 1912-that of 6s. per day?

'· 2. Is he a wan• of the fact that the Commissioner of Police has decreased the allowance to 4s. per day (1s. 4d. per mea.]}, and 2s. per night if the member pa:,s for his bed, to members when per­forming bush patrol duty?

" 3. Is he a ware of the fact that the police in a certain district are not re­ceiving the 6s. per day when O';l bush patrol duty, but have to furmsh an account showing how much extra it costs them to live in the bush above that which it costs them to live at their station and are only paid the difference in the 'event of the inspector being satis­fied'

"4. Was this allowance not paid for the purpose of augmenting the police nay when on escort duty, temporary duty ~t other stations, bush patrol duty, etc?"

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. G. Appel, Alb.ert) replied-

" 1. No. The allowance payable cannot exceed. in the cases of senior sergeants, eergeants, and acting sergeants, 7s. per diem of twenty-four hours, and, in the case of constables, 6s. pGr di~~n of twenty­four hours.

"2. In all c·.~ses whore beds are paid for, 2s. per night is allowed, in addition to allowance for costs of meals, not ex­coeding 1 "'· 8d. to senior sergeants, sergeant ''• and acting sergeants, and 1s. 4d. to constables.

"3. Police absent from their stations for any length of t_ime are ~·equired to furnish account showmg what. It cost them for subsistence while away from their stations. The basis of payment is the same for all districts-i.e., difference in cost of Jiving at permanent and tem­porary station respectively.

"4. No; the allowance is intended to reimburse members of the force for out­of-pocket expenses ineurred while absent on duty."

1656 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

STATE ADVANCES TO CoMPA:-!IES.

Mr. HUXI-LlM (Buranda) asked the Secre­tary for Agriculture and Stock-

" 1. \Vhat arc tho names of the com­panies that have received advances from the State, the securities f0r which the Government has had to take over?

" 2. 'What were the se,m·ities offered, the amounts advan··ed, the amounts re· paid, and the amounts realised on re­sales of the securities of the respective con1panies ?

"3. \Vhat are the securitirs now held, the amount, advanc< d. the amounts re­paid, and the pre·-Bnt value of these securities·~

"4. \Vhat do the securities comprise? "5. IV ere personal guarantees given in

cases under question Nos. 2 and 3, and have the guarantors paid up the amounts of their respective guarante<·s? "

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICCLTL'RE (Han. J. White, Jiusgra11e) replieJ-~

"1. None. " 2 to 5. See answer to question No.

1."

POSITION OF DR. HIRSCHfELD.

Mr. WILLIAMS (Charters Tou·ers) asked the Treasurer, in the absence of the Pre­mier-

" 1. Is he aware that the retention bv Dr. Hirschfeld of his scat in the Legisla­tive Council is causing widespread dis­satisfaction and uneasinec,,_, in the State?

"2. As Dr. Hirschfeld has not resigned hi,; seat in the Council, will he introduce or support a Bill in Parliament, having for its object the removal of Dr. Hirsch­fold from the Legislative Council, or will he take other steps to alleviate the position?"

The TREASL'RER (Han. W. H. Bame,,, Bulim ba) replied-

" 1 and 2. Shortlv after the outbreak of war, Dr. Hirschfeld intimated to the Chief Secretary that, if his retention of a scat in the Legislative Council em­barrassed, or was likolv to erubarras.;.;, the Government, he waul(! re,ign. It was not sugg< :ted, on either side, that in 'Uch event thA Government would call on him to do so. More reccntlv. 'Dr. Hirschfeld has, without any suggestion from the Government, com0 to the con­dusion that such retention might cause clnbarrac,'3ll10nt, and consequently, on Saturd~y last, he addressed a letter to tho Chid Secrchry stating that he had handed hi:;: resignation as a member of the Lcgi.Jlative Council to the Lieutenant­Governor. The Government de3ires to place on record in 'Votes and Proceed­ings' that since his appointment Dr. Hirschfeld has dono nothing bv word or dood to justify his being regarded as othc1· than a loyal Queensland citizen, or as a worthy member of the Legisla­tive Council. I should like to add that as Senior Honorary Physician to the General and Mater Misericordiro Hos­pitals, and as a Senator of the L'niversity of Queensland, and in other capacities,

Dr. IIir~chfeld has rendered good service to the community. I append the full text of the letter already referred to:-

.. '33 \Vickham Terrace, "' Bri,bane, 31st October, 1914.

'' · The Honourablr the Premier. "'Sir -I have tho honour to inform

vou that I have l•ondered this day the i·esigrt; tiun of n1y scat in the Legislative C::>Uncil to His Excellency the Lieutenant­Governor.

'' ' On the outbreak of war, on Thurs" day 6th August, I appio.·whed you in a C'orlfidcntial intcrvienr concerning my position. I then .•.tated that having been naturalised in Queensland for more than twenty-one years, I believed myself fully entitled to continue to hold the appoint­men\, but that I looked upon it as the gift of the Governnr nt and did not feel justified in retaining it if by my doing so I embarrassed the Government. You were then good enough to say that it did not ''mbarra·s the Government. Of late I have rear8n to believe that the position has altered, and, in ju-tice both to you and mYSelf, I feel compelled to tender my resignation. I wish to thank you and vour Government for the honour you have done me by appointing me in the Jlrst instance.

'· 'You!v vei'V trulv " ' E"'uGE:\' u iirRSCHFELD.' '

CO:>TRIBUTIONS TO BELGIAN RELIEF FUND.

}\.'fr. WILLIAMS asked the Treasurer-,, 1. \Yill he inform the House precisely

what funds or assistance have been pro­vided by the Government as a contribu­tion to 'the Patriotic War Fund or the Belgian Relief Fund 1

'' 2. Has the Government, by purchases of 'took or meat effected in con••.equonce of tho war, made, or docs it expect to make, a considerable profit?

" 3. \Vhat is the amount or the estima­ted amount of such profit?

" 4. Will the Government appropriate such profit to tho Patriotic War Fund or the Belgian Relief Fund?"

The THK\BURER replied-" 1. Tho Government has provided free

railal)"e for stock and other contributions in kmd for Imperial war purposee;; has conducted at State expense cable corre­,":pondence between pu.triotic committees and the Imperial Government through the Agent-General; and has forwarded for the relief of distressed Belgians 5, 000 carcasses of Queensland frozen mutton by a steamer which reaches England two or three weeks hence.

" 2 and 3. \V e anticipate a profit, but wu c:;nnot forecast the amount.

" 4. Tho dispos:Ll of the profit will be consid~"red in duo course."

CARGO Pn~FERING.

Mr. FIHELLY (I'addington) asked the 'l'reasurer, for the Attorney-General-

" 1. Has it been brought under his notice that Mr. Eglinton, P.M., sentenced a man t<J three months' hard labour, without the option of a fine, for stealing one keg of lead, valued at 6s. 3d. ?

Questions. [3 NOVEMBER.] Elections Acts, Etc., Bill. 1657

" 2. Has it been brought under his notice that Mr. Eg-]inton, P.M., commit­i;ed a man to the higher court for stealing a case of herrings, valued at £1 13s. 1d.?

"3. Is he aware that the reason given for these sentences is that pilfering is beeoming more frequent?

'· 4. Has it hc:en brought under his notice that a millcman was yesterd&y fined £10, or, as an altNnative, sentenced to one month's imprisonment, for adulterat­ing mille, and thus helping to poison babies and cheat milk buyers?

" 5. Is this off<ence a frequent one? "6. Does it req•1irc more condign pun­

ishment than pilfering?"

The TREASLTRER replied­" 1. Yes. "2. Yes. "3. Mr. Egl!nto':', the police magistrate,

reports that pllfermg from wharves and ships has increased to such an extent that h~ is satisfied the only punishment that vnll act as a deterrent is imprisonment· that he ha·: in preYious cases extended th~ provision· relating to first offenders, and m other c:tscs fines have been inflicted ;vithout any good result; and ti1at he i~ mformed that in one case a fine of £20 was subscribed within twentv-four hours by sympathisers. ·

"4. Yes. "5. :Mr. Pears, the police magistrate,

reports that there ha,-,, not been many prosecutions for adulteration of milk sine(> he has held that position at South Bris­bane.

"6. That is a matter for the tribunal and depends on the circumstances of th~ case and the preYious character of the offender."

BFNDABERG-PIALBA RAILWAY ExcURSIONs.

Mr. PETRIE (Toombul) asked tho Secretary for Railways-- .

~· 1. \Vi!! t~e Railway Department make be, ter provrswn for running trains from Bundaberg to the seaside resort Pialba so as to enable the working and other cla~scs to haye the opportunity of obtaining at a cheap rate fares which will enable th m to take ndvantage of same for health purpoF'lS? '

" 2. Has the. member for Bundaberg ap1;roached hrm on this important matter?''

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. W. T. Paget, J!ackay) replied-

" f·. The traf_fic doPs not warrant any addrtwnal trams. Tho Pialba branch train now connects at Colton with the Bundaberg pass0nger train both ways.

"2. No."

RAILWAY FREIGHTS ON TBIBER.

:Mr. ROBERTS (Ea,,t Toou·oomba) asked the Sccretar:' for Raihvays-

" In view of stu+rments made bv Bris­bane travellers when seeking orders for timber in the Western districts, that they gpt a cheap through freight rate from Brisbane, will he asc•ertain what are the

rates charged for timbcr-(a) from Bris­bane on sawn and dressed timber; (b) from Toowoomba on sawn and dressed timber; (c) is there any special rate for timber for buildiniis under the Worke,-s' Dwellings ... '\.ct; (d) what is the rate charged for what are known as ' houses rc.tdy to en·ct' ?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS re­plied-

"(a) From Brisbane, sawn timber 'A ' claES; dressed flooring and lining boards ' A' class; other dressed timber, 'A ' plus 25 p0r cent. (b) From Toowoomba, same classification as from Brisbane. but the shorter disk.nce gives a lesser rate per ton. (c) ::"<o. (d\ 'A' class plus 25 p0r cent.''

MINING ACT A::\IENDMENT BILL.

THIRD READING.

On the motion of the HOME SECRE­TARY, this Bill, read a third time, was ordered to be tranemitted to the Legislative Council by message in the usual form.

ELECTIONS ACTS AJ\IENDMENT BILL.

INITIATION.

The HOME SECRETARY, in moving--

" That the House will, at its next sitting, resolve ,itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider of the desirable­ness of introducing a Bill to amend the Elections Acts, 1885 to 1913, in certain particulars."

said: The Bill which I am asking leave to introduce in Committee of the Whole to­morrow to amend the Elections Acts, 1885 to 1913, marks a distinct departure from exist­ing legislation on the subject. It contains proYision whereby all persons que.lified to have their name•. on tho electoral roll, but >·.hose names aro not already u:•on the roll, must make application for enrohncnt, under a penalty. And as a ncct•s•,ctry corolbry to compulsory enrolment, tho Bill bas pro­visions comp~>l:ing people to rc<'ord their Yates upon polling-day, unlecs thBy are able to furnish the Electoral O!llcer with a good and ,.ufficicnt excuse for their non-attendance and the non-exerc'Fe of the franchise. It makL•\ provision for the holding of bi-moBthly revision courts, which will possess all the functions which are now exercised at the annual revi ,;on court. Tho Bill also contains full, and I be:icve cffcct.ivo, provisions deal­ing \vith the oil'c!l'_-.e of personation, pro­visions that I have overv reason to b0lieve, if th<Oy beco:ne the el.;ctoral law of this Statn, will render personation practically a negligible quantitv. The Bill also contains safeguards and p;·otocts the electoral rights of soldiers who have gone to the war by providing that they shou:d be doomed to be residents in the ele, torates from whence th<'y came during the period of the war and for one year afterwards. Their full righh are preserved to them.

Mr PAYNE: Who will U"•C the votes?

The HO:YIE SECRETARY: No provi3ion is 1nado for their voting, b0c~use I did not consider it practicable to in7roduce it into

Hon. J. G. Appel.]

1658 Elections Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

th(• -::n0 ,-.un~ ,~vh;rh I arn :;:3Pking leave to introdn "· Th:, Bill nnturaJlv con•o,ins all thP n0r::: ... .11' adrnini::;trati•,-p · n1a('hirer-v in conncdion with the,,e prin, iplcs which I 'have 1ncnt~ol'<d. These 1natters and any n1inor dt!tail> I propose to giyc full exphnation of on tlH second reading of the Bi:J. I bet; to I'10YC thfl motion 2tanding in n1y nan1e.

RYAN (Ba,.roo): After the previous F c :tl election, when the L<1bour party re­~.:ci\Td u<'h a very large n1 ,jori~y of vctrs in Queensland; the GoYcrnment thought it fl('('( ,~~<lTV to 1nakc an P,~nondrru nt of ihe then cxi;:,~in~ ~ el(xt.oral law. and tho anwndmc't -.,va'\ n1t'de in such a way, as then was pointed ant. for tho purpose of disfraiwhising people, fir•,' of all by reducing the qualification which was necessary to allow thE·ir name:; to h0 placed on the roll, and, secondly, by making it diffkult for ihose persons who had the qualification to get their names on the roll by ineisting upon each applicant ans\\ er­ing a large number of quHtions, I think ;;ixt0on in number. Now, the last Federal election resulted in even a larger Labour majority in Queensland, and fortunately also throughout tho Commonwealth, and the Go­vemment haYe had to devise some method by which, in their opinion, they will be able to obtai:r a majority of those who are entitled to vote m Queensland.

::Hr. :\fORGAN: It will be a second "Western Australia.

~.1r. RYAN: We will see when the election has been held, but in tho meantime the Geo­vernment a.re taking such steps as they deem mo~t conducive to 2ssist them in obtaining their object. As far as I gather from the remarks of the Home Secretary, this Bill in the main provides for 'ompulsory enrol­ment and, secondly, for compulsory voting. Now, whatever there mav be to be said in favour of compulsory voting-and I admit that there may be a good deal to be said­still. before that principle can be even con­sidered, it must first of all be admitted that every adu:t person is entitled to be on the roll and have a vote. As far as I can see. jndging by the amendment the Go\·ern­ment made to the electoral law as it oxist-;d prior to the previous Federal election, they set out to narrow down the number of per­sons who \Yil! be entitled to have their names on the roll, and now they have set about to compel these persons to vote for them. ~irst of all, they endeavoured to make tho hst as narrow as possible, and then, if possible, to secure a majority of those persons who are on the roll and qual;fied to rote for them, and, consequently, if they are not willing to turn up and Yote, they are going to make them do so.

Mr. HARDACRE: It is an attempt to screen out.

Mr. RY:\.N: It is an attempt to screen out, as the han. member for Leichhardt interjeetd, and the departure is so radical that I hav~> no doubt it will be watched with great interest not only in Parliament, but also outside of Parliament; and I hope in the consideration of the question we will bear in mind the arguments which were put forwal'd in this House when the last amend­ment of the Act was proposed, showing clearly that the Government were attempt­ing to narrow the franchise, and deprive plople of having the opportunity to vote. And now, when they find that there is a good deal of indifference amongst even

[Hon. J. G . .Appel.

thos" from whom thev expec"t -d to get. support at t.he next elect-ion. they ha"fe mado up their minds that they will drag them to the polls and compel them to vote for the Government. Rope them in ! (Govern­ment laughter.) It is well-known that in Queensland at present the Government are­in very bad odour. The peoplE> do not want them, but the Government apparently think that this will mean that those who would otherwise remain .away from the poll will have to come to the poll and vote for them and they have set out to drag them there' and make them record their votes in favour of the Government. I do not know how the peonle of Queensland ''ill regard fU.r>h an attell1pt; but. if I judp-e aright of t'he temper of tho people, to my mind the Government will find that it will rebound upon them in a way that they do not expect.

The HoME SECRETARY : Then you ought to welcome it.

Mr. RYAN: I will welcome anything that is just and fair. (Hear, hear!) I do not. think the last amendment of the Act was either just or fair, and consequent!y I do not think that any measure compellmg that_ narrow limited number to come and record their votes is fair or just either. I think that the whole system is wrDng. And when speaking on that amend~ng Bill, I said th~t I had great confidence m the sense of fair plav of a majority of the people of Queens­land and I am quite satisfied that this Act on the part of the Goyernm'?nt, in the clos­ino- hom·' of the sesswn, Will awaken that se;sc of fair play and induce the people­to give the Government th<:ir deserts. It is necessary for me to refer m some degree to the operation of the law as it at present exists. It has been made absolutely. clear that the object of the Government m the previous measure was to restrict th.e f~an­chise--to d<:'prive the people of their right tu vote-and in the administration of the law it has been carried out in such a way that it has been even more effectiYc than I think its advocates then hoped.

The SPEAKER: The han. member may not discuss the provisions of the Bill before­it is introduced.

Mr. RYA)J: Before I conclude, I proposa to move an amendment that will give us an opportunity to widen the scope of this Bill, ~o that, wh0n we get to <1 further stage, we may be able to make a final attempt to amend the l.aw as we think it ought to• be amended-to give the people of Queens­land an opportunity of exercising the fran­chis3 to the fullest extent. In the early administration of the existing law we find that not only haye all these question-six­teen in number-to be answered bv the ap­plicant to get his nam<> on the roll, but in addition the slightest informality leads to a. rejection of the application form. And in this connection I do not think I could do better than to r0ad a short official letter· from an electoral registrar in Queensland to the Secretan of the Australian \Yorkers' l:nion at Longreach. It is really an in­tere,ting document, a document that ought to make han. members on the front bench blush when they see the extent to which a. slight informality-and indeed some of tJ:em are not informalities-prevent an applica­tion being granted for enrolment. It is a letter dated form the Courthouse at Long-

Elections Acts [3 NoVE~IBER.] Amendment Bill. 1659

reach, on the 15th August, 1914, to R. R. Bow, Esq., Australian \Yorkers' Union Office, Longreach, and is as follows:-

" Sir,-I am directed lw the chairman of the bench of magistrate~ tD forward you 'JWCimen copies of claims for persons wishing to be enrDllcd as electors for the Mitchell district, and would be pleased if you would put them bdore any person making out a claim.

" The bench will reject any claim not properly filled in, and will allow no abbreviations such as N.S.\V., Vic., Q'land, etc.

" The place of birth must be given in addition to the country, viz., Belfast, Ireland ; Ireland by itself will not be ac<;epted.

" The date of birth should be filled in, and not the year only.

"A person who is a naturalised sub· ject should give the name of the town and the date of his naturalisation.

" The place of residence should be given; such addresses as c.o. A. \V. U. Office will not be accepted.

" In the line, places resided in during the last twelve months; the places should be stated tD tally with the last place the electDr was on the roll, and n0t as in some claims, as for instance that of John McMillan, who says he has resided at Rockhampton during the preceding twelve months, but is on the roll for Clermont; no mention of the latter place appears on the claim as having been his place of residence.

" It is also requested that all claims lw fillc·d in in as plain writing as pos­sible, as we find flourishe~ very hard to decipher, and it also prolongs the court unnecessarily.

"I have the honour to be, sir, your obedient servant,

"H. R. AIRD, Registrar."

The HOME SEC'RE'l'ARY: That sounds very reasonable.

Mr. RYAN: I am very pleased that the han. gentleman says to this House

[4 p.m.] and b the people of Queensland that that sounds very rcawnablP.

GovERNMEKT ME:IIBERS: HE':n·, hear!

Jl.lr. RYAN: What does it come to? I will take a paragraph from this letter, and let any fair-minded person listen to it and examine it cat'"fully. It is this-

" The bench will rejr>."t anv claim not properly fillrd in, and 'Yill allow no "hbreviations such as N.S.\V., Vic., Q'land, etc."

The HmrE SECRETARY: Quit<· right.

Mr. RYAN: "Q'land" is an abbreviation for Quren«land. and on that a.ccount the claim will be rcjecced. I sav that that is a •candcdous state of affairs. ·

0PPOS!T!OK :\1E:IIBERS: Hear, hear!

::\Ir. RYAN: I am surprised that a Minis­ter holding the r<'sponsible pos:~ion of Home Se~retary will say that because those abbrevi<ltions appear in an application form

the man >hould therefore be deprived of the 1 i~:ht to ex>'rci~<J the franchise. Lot me pro~ c; cd a Jit;l_e ,tuthcr--

,; \Vith regard to the pla,cn of residence a ('!ai1n is r 'jccted if the applicant docs. 1~ know the last place \vhere his name

on the roll as being his pia{.' of resi-'O liul'ing the la~-- tv\'clvc n1onths."

An il!u .tration is g:ven that if he is on the Ccrnwnt roll, and puts in that his place of rc·idcnce for the previom twelve months was Lockhampton, that for tha,t reason his claim, would be rejccred. It mav br that the man lT ,!dod for twelve 1nonths in Rockharnpton, and had not been in Clermont at all for the p:-evious b\ ;: lvf-• months, rut because his na•ne is en tho Clercnont roll, and he has not put that in as being his plare of resi­denc-e, his cl'liln is thc_rcforo rejected.

Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS : His; ll \: -11~ \Yill 1'8lnain Oil the c:erLTIOEt roll.

~.Ir. RYA~: He is not entitled to have it O'l th · Clermont r. ,!J, nor to vote thoro, unleo'' h · h:: s remained there for one month in th · previc,us seven months. \Vhat is the use of his name being on the Cler:nont roll if he is not entitled to vDte there?

The SECRETARY FOR PcBLIC LANDS: He ,lid vote there?

}[r. RYAK: If the Secretary for Land& cays he did vote there, he me'"'ns that he improperly voted. Here we have a man e'·tompting to get his name on the Mitchell roll. and he is rejected because he docs not tell a lie, and say he has resided at Clermont. the last twelve months. Tho statement en­dorsed b the Home Secretarv in this House· is a scandalous illustration of the manner in \Y~lich this Government are prepared to tarn­per w; th th0 franchise a,nd keep people off" t!t,, roll.

The HOME SECRETARY: They are prepared. to deal with it according to the !a w which this Parliament made.

Mr. RYAN: According to the law which· they made in order to keep people off the· roll. The attitude of the han. gentleman 'how; hO\> desperate and determined they are, in the eleventh hour of the session, to

•'C that peop:e arc compelled to vote, and that only those will have the right to vote that they think will vote for themselves. To proceed a little further with regard to the· administration of the present law leading u:l to my amendment, we had in the Mus­grave electorate the other .day over 100· applications rejected.

The HO:IfE SECRETARY: .l!,raudu]ent a,pplica­ti(:W-.

Mr. RYAN: Not fraudulent applications. I will guarantee that therP are 75 per cent. of those persons who were rejected in the court at Bundaberg the other day now re­sident in the Musgrave eledorate. We have tho han. member for Toombul this after­noon giving notice of questions suggesting; that Mr. George. Ryland should be pro-­secuted, and that his name should be re­moved from the list of justices of the peace. Even the han. member for Bundaberg is­threatened because he had the audacity to· take a seat in the cDurt while it was going· on. I read carefully through what appeared' in the Press this morning, and, on looking· up the Act, I find that section 30 provides' that the justice or any other person contest­ing the claim shall, if he is not personall::t

M1· Ryan.]

1660 Elections Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

acquainted with the facts, satisfy himself by inquiring from the claim.·mt or otherwise that the answers to the questions are true, and shall sign at the foot of the claim a certificate in the following form and to the Jike effect, that is to say-

" I , J.P. [or as the case rnay be] hereby certify that I have seen the abovenamcd A. D. sign the above ciaim with his own hand [or, if he can­not write, with his mark], and that he has satisfied me after full inquiry that he possesses the qualification above 5tated."

Mr. Ryland, on oath, said that he satisfied himself by inquiry from the applicant or -otherwise of the facts stated in the applica­tion. But the point is this : on the applica­tion form there is no certificate of that kind. The Electoral Office allows forms to go out which do not contain th~,t certificate, and although tho justice of the peace who is re­<Jei ving the application satisfies himself hom .the applicant of the facts stated in the ap­plication, still the certificate is not there in order that he may sign if he does not per­sonally know the applicant. Therf' is nothing morally wrong in it-and :Yir. Rvland, as a matter of fact, !me ;;• all tho facts to which he t·•sti!iecl--·and I challenge the han. gentle­man to do his worst in that matter. (Government laughter.)

The Ho;\IE SECRETARY : That won't gull the public.

Mr. RYAN: Another role .adopted by the hon. gentleman opposite, or by the Electoral Office, has been to remove names off the roll ,of persons who are entitled to be there. The han. member for Port Curtis said that five of his supporters had been wrongfully struck <Off.

Mr. KESSELL: .For the Federal election.

Mr. RYAN: I do not care in what elee­tion. I know that in the State of Queens­land there are many names struck off the roll of persons entitled to be there. Thev are notified that they have left or that .they are dead, or that there is some other form of dioqualification, and if th0y do not take the trouble, or if it is incvnvenient for them to come and say that they are still thoro, their name is removed from the roll. 1\s I remarked the other afternoon, that is principally done in the case of sup­porters of this party. Again, we have the amendment which was made in the last Art providing that any informality, even a)though the intention of the .-oter is clear, should make tho vote invalid and that the returning officer should not be able to count it.. ThorP are -all these things, not the least of which is the ]ll'operty franchise, which io. intended to 0nable the Liberal sup­porters to remove their names from those electorates wh0re they think they are strong, and have them placed on the roll in the electorate in whirh they desire to vote. ·That is also a r+Prious blemish on the exist­ing Act. and one which ought to be re­moved at the earlic·'t opportunity, .and that opportunity OU!"ht to be taken when we are .amending tho Pxisting Elections Act. I think. too, that the postal vote as it at present exists should be abolished, and that ·a proviFion should be made fo~ absent voting on the lines of that which was repealed when 'the last amending Bill was before the 'House. Tho hon. gentleman, in the course

[Mr. Ryan.

of his remarks, referred to the retaining upon the roll of the names of volunteers who have left Queensland to assist in the defence of the Empire during the war. These names it is proposed to allow to re­main on the roll for twelve months after the war, but where is the provision for them recording their vote before they go to the war? There is no provision for that; they cannot do that. They cannot <>!low these men who are prepared to sacrifice their lives in the defence of the country to exercise their Yo to ; they can make no provision that they shall cast a vote, if they feel so in­dined, before they leave the coast of Queens­land.

:1-lr. K B. C. CoRSER: Ye', but how do they know they will get it?

2\Ir. RYA::-i: Provision was made in ~ew Zealand.

Tho Hmm SECRETARY: It is on]v with n'gard to the second force, and that" is be­cause the general election IYas taking place almost immediate!;>'.

Mr. RYA:::-J: vVe can only makf• provision with rPgard to the second force, because the first force, I understand, is miles a way on the water now, but we have men in camp at F:noggcra who should not be allo\YPd to go before they vote. They can say whether they will Yote for the Labour part;,- or the Liberal party, and surely we can allow these men. who are prepared to go forth to the war for our defence, to have that right, because it is not a privilege; the right to have some >ay as to 'Yho shall control the uffairs of Queensland, perhaps, when their wives and families remain after them. I am survri·,ed that when the thought occurred to han. gentlewen opposite of members of the Expcditio::ary Fo:cc at all that they did not make· proYision that those who were depart­ing for tho front should have the o;1portunity of casting their votes, if the:>· felt so inclined, for on,, part:.· or the other, und the ,·otes could be allotted to the different electorates and to the candidates for the particular partie.. With the object of enabling us to enc!0 ·avour to make the amendment I have outlined in mv remarks. I moYo that, after '' 1913," the foll·owing words be inserted:-

" bj providing for (a) a broader fran­chi·o: (b) greater facilities for the enroll­ing of electors: (c) the abolition of the pro\lcrtv fronchise: (d) tho recording of tJ-.,. \·otcs of 11 ,-oh•nt,,ers leaving Queens­land in anv Fxneditionary Force for the nurnose· of th~ defenc€' of the British Em]1irc and its Allies: (e) the aboli!ion of tlw exi<ting metho·l of postal votmg, and the est a hlishing in lieu thPreof cf a sy:c,tein of absC'nt Yot1ng anrl "--

I into>Jcl io mo1·e a conse'JUCntial a .10ndment whon thio i- carrihd. (Government laughter.)

'The SECReTARY FOR PcBLIC LAXDS : It will bo a long time.

:\Ir. RY.\X: I note the tone of defiance from tl·~ Socrptarv for Pu;,]ic Lands, who •.an that it will bc"u long time .. He is thin~­ing of the Toowoomlca s•:\t tha~ he knows IS

in tho balance. that he knows lf a votB was taken he would loRe, and he sho" 3 his deter­mination that no amendment coming from this side of the House will receh-e his sup­port, and J-.e L. also going to compel his fol­lowers to vote with him, although we know-

Elections Acts [3 NOVEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1661

beoauso there are things that >Jill' common sense tell us-that this measure is not passed with the unanimous support of han. gentle­men opposite. !Government laughter.) So that I have no doubt their votes will all be with thB Government. I hope the amend· mont that I have mm·od c-. ill be debated in a fair-n1incled \\ ay. and that the supporters of tLe Government will not allow the Govern· n1cnt to p:::oc.::eJ in the -direction \Yhirh they aro {~oing. It 1nust be obvious to eYorybody that the Gm·ornment are out to hold the Trc>asruv benclus at all costs. and that is b'"· reducing the rmr'lber of people on the roll, and then <>ou,Jollin;; them 10 come alon~ and cast their votes for tho Governuent. You canndt get into a trarn in Queen street, you cunr:ot tray~·l in a train any\Yhere, but if poliri~s :1 rn nH:ntioned at all you hear the general opinion <'XPl"~ded that the Gove::.·n­lrl(;nt arc g·oing to bo heaten, and "I won't be '30rrv either " is thn usual rern~trk even of Lib,;ral supporters. "In fant, I do not think I will bot ocr to yotc at this dcction" is tl10 kind of talk that goes o:a on the trains and tra111s . .and no doa~~t tho Government ha · c lFcon1o \Yeury of that, and arc going to bluclg<'on these men and women into ca~t· ing thrir Yotc· for them. The final arbiters in this mattn will be th<:' people, and as soon as the people haYo •:n opportunity of judging of t.ho fuirncss of tactic-~ of this sort tho sooLer, I think, the Government will find themsohes defeated. I hope the amendment 1:.-in b~ carried.

:\Ir. BOV;'MAN (Fnrtit:ule ra 7Ly): I de· sire to second the amendment. I think tho discn;sion whirh took place \Yh~n the Elec­tions Acts Amend·"· nt Bill \·as before this House in 1913 is q 1ite vivid in the- minds of han. m.~mbets. It was pointcrl out th· n that th,, dr ire of tho Govern1nent \vas to make it as diffic·Jl. as possibl. for tho oleo· tots of Qa 'enslancl to get on the roll and as easy as p JssillL to put them off tho roll. \Ve have ltrrived at a stage in our political exi;,tencc when ,._-··J should rf'·cognise that any Gov rnmc1t \Yho arp not pr,.,parcd to trust tho people fully. give them every opportunity for gcttit g 1 'u:-ir _:::ames on the roll and for exerci~in~ the franchise ·with the lea~. po>­sible troubi<--I '_,n \YO have arrived at tho tL1e when a Gon'l:nment who have failed to do that 'ho.lld l.:o put out of office•. \\" e are told that the amending Bill which is to be introdLJ· eel provides for compulsory enrol· ment and comp-llsor:- voting. I have no objection at all t.o either clmpnlsory <mrol men~ or \;ompul<ory voting, so Ion<)' as an opportunity is gi • en to all ]X'r .ons in the Stat<• t·) ,.;et their namos on the roll and to vote on clc :tion dav. I · hou!Cl li 1:o to draw a rrnnn:tri,~on b ~(\Yecn the olcc~ions la\v passed "lw this Gov rnmcnt nncl the Com­momwc.lth c1cctions Ia>'. Tho enrolment for a Common wE :rlth ele~tor is simplicity itself.

GoYERX~:.~xT :GIE::"II:n~RS: Yes, yes !

Mr. TI0\ViY1AX: Yes! Murh tn the clic­e-ust. of lion. me1nbcr,:; sitting in that corner. Tho Common wee lt.h Parliament han> shown that they 0\re prepared to tr::s~ tho people of Australia aLsolutel:v; they give th people the full --' cpportunitv of getting th,'ir names on the roll and of f'xercising tho franchise. If an elector fron1 \Yc.tcrn Australia hap­pens to he here on an election day, he can rc-corJ his vote for tho electm·ate for which he ie r nroll0d. One of the "'or8t features of tho Election; Act at present in force in

Queensland is tho provision whioh makes a t\YO momhs' qualitication necessary where an elector Hl•lVPi from une electorate to an­other, even though ho may only go across the street and may have be<'n twenty-five Jl'al·s in that particular district for which he is enrolled. We know that by the Hedis· tribution cf Seats Act electorates have boon so divided that a person living on one side uf tho street is in one el0ctorate while a per· son living on the other side is in another d(c:toratc. \Vo have t~,e Brisbano electorate un one ,,do of t!.1c str'•c•t and the Fortitude Valley or. the other side of tho same street, while in other cr.cr, the ~\lerthvr electorato 1s on one r.'do of the street an"d the Forti· tude Valley electorate on the other side of the sam'' >erect. To require a person to re· side two months in a new cl~ctorate means that it will be four months or six months before ho can get enrolled for the new electorate lu which he has removed.

Th\~ EfO:'I:IE SEU\L'l\\.RY: \Vc are going to gi, e you bi ·monthly revision court;;.

:\.h. BOWMA:N: That does not alter the fact tha~ a persm. removing from one eleo· torate to another is not entitled to have his name tr-: _sfcrred until he has re9ided two rnonihs in the nc~n' electorate. The hon. gcntloma~: got that two months' qualification inserted. knowing t!1at it "·ould be a dis· abilit-. to 'm cL:ctor who had b shift his place~ o£ abode.

The Ho::E SECRETARY: It \Vas to prevent ik·cding the rolls.

J\1r. BQ~,VJ\1AN: I-Ia'" the hon. gentleman ha<.l an}- occa3ion to £oar any flooding of the roll in ~ny State election cinco he has been ,, member of thic HolLe, and particul:.rly hince h8 h:_l.~ bcr·~l I--IcJnlf' Socret.ary? Th6 hon. gentleman io as 'l'ory as it is uoscibls to b ; he l•as g·ono back int) tho dark a.ges, and do\ , nDt progTE'·.:s one E~tle bit. Tho Comn1on•Y('tlth gaYo ev0ry rnan in tho Ex­poditionar: Fm the right to exorcise his vote bcf.)ru he left. I ha vc hoard the Home Sc TCt 1.r~,- bo:!st about hi. patriotism, 'vh~ch l do nc:. don:,. The h-:m. -:<;< J tloman has ~roken abo _lt t:11J gc od qualities of t118 n1en ,. ho havo :.-·or.' ,o tho front, but we arc told that it is :1ct LJ11Vf._ niont-that it is not to tho liking of tbc hon. gcntJcrrwn-to allow ihor, mrn who .re ridcing their li\c'S for the sake of this r,,. 'rv and tho a llics of the Empire to rcr )rd tl}~;ir Yotes in Queensland. That is tile way th.: hon. ,·entleman rewards thn trt:J patr]ot, thG man i'-h:J is p:reparFd to v,ivc his lifo for· his countrc·. There are 1narl y a tnnnget th:' e 1nc~ ,v:ho prize the oppor:unity of cxPrcisin~ t'Ie franchise and >·:ould like to record their vote, h:forc they l,,ave. Tbc hon. gentlr 11.1an in effect says to thc;n. "You ha-re 1ny syn1p:J:hy~" and his nthtndc 1'{· '11inr1c: me of a statement once mado by J'ohn Burns, that

" SYrn11a r:1r· , ... ,7 ithout rcli~ f Is iike mt!s'tard withod beef."

The sympathy of the hon. gentleman is simply vcneor ; there is no depth in it. T:wre are some fair-minded members op­posite \Cho want to have a fair deal in this matter, and I 'incorcly trust that they will ri'e to tb-, occasion to-dav. Let us make onr elections law simple arid fair, giving the an1e O~)portunity to eYcry man and woman

in this State to vote as is giwn to electors hy the Commonwealth. Let us go to the com.cry in that way, and let the strongest

ilf r. Bou·man.]

J.662 Elections Acts [ASSE::\lBLY.] Amendment Bdl.

side win. Thu tactics adopted by the Go­vernment are a disgrace to Que~nsland and to Australia. I venture to say that there is no other Govermne:1t in Australia to-day that would adopt tho tactics that hon. mem­bers opposite are adopting. I have only one wish, and that is that when they face the music they will be paid back in their own coin with a good deal of interbt added.

The HOME SECRETARY: Not only do I not propose to acci>pt the amendment, but I also propose to resist it) ancl for a very good and sufficient reason. I do not propose to import the same warmth into the matter as has been exhibited by the mover and seconder of the amendment. I propose to appeal to the reason of hon. members, and not to bnlly them into the matter. I pro­pose to point out to hon. members that all the matters referred to in the amendment are amply provided for already, or if not .amply provided for are so provided for m the Amending Bill which I am now asking leave to introduce. The leader of the Op­position, in his amendment, asked that pro­vision should be made for a broader fran­chise. ·what broader franchise does the hon. member desire to have introduced? \Vhat broader franchise is it pos-,ible to have than that which C·'.:ists in Queensland to-day-that personal residence is a qualification for en­rolment? If an elector possessing a freehold and desiring to be registered for that free­hold, he may be so registered, but he has only one vote. In support of the amend­m<•nt, the leader of the Opposition has made reference to certain matters which have arisen at the revision court held in the city of Bundaberg. What does the hon. member desire this House and the electors of Queensland to infer ? Does he wish the members of this House and the electors of Queensland to believe that claimants having the qualification provided in the present legislation have been refused enrolment?

Mr. RYAN: I say the legislation is wrong.

The HO:i\-1E SECRETARY: If the legisla­tion is wrong, what is the position of those men who have made a claim which is an improper claim? Does the hon. member ~tand behind them? The present legislation is absolutelv clear as to the qualifications of residence. It providn that---

" To be resident a person must be a bona fide inhabitant of the district or division, as the case may be. He must pos.oBSs a homA therein, that is to say, a place of abode with a fixed purpose of remaining there, and not merely an abode for .an occasional purpose either of pleasure or of business.

" It is not necesoary that this home should be in one place in the district or division during the whole of any period prescribed, but the person in question must possess a home therein during the whole of such period."

What do we find, as a matter of fact? That claim' have been made in respect 'of per­sons who have not been two monthf in the eloctorat" and have not been twelve months in the State, and that claims have been made in connection with persons who do not propose to remain in that electorate but are simply there for a temporary purpose or bu"'iness. \Vho have the-,e claims been fathered by? The name of one gentleman in particular has been referred to, and I -think every hon. member of this Chamber

[M1'. Bowman.

is aware of the fact that that gentleman knows the electoral laws from the first clause to the last clause.

l\lr. EERTR-\i\I : He is a very honourable TIL~ll.

The HO::\iE SECRETARY: He may be a Yery honourable man, but if hon. members upposito allc-ge that it is honourable to assist persons to make false claims--

:Hr. FIUELLY: That is an absolute lie.

Tho HO:YlE SECRETARY: I ask you, ::Ylr. Speaker, is the hon. member for Pad­dington in orde1· in referring to my state­ment as an absolute lie?

The SPEAKER: The hon. member for Paddington knows that the word referred to is not parliamentftry. I cannot say that I absolutely heard the hon. member use the word, but I think I did hear it, and if the "ord was used, it is unparliamentary, and the hon. member must withdraw it .

:;'.lr. li'IHELL Y: If it is unparliamentary, I withdraw it.

:Ylr. PAYNE: I dse to a point of order. I ask if the Home Secretary is in order in imputing to the hon. member for Bundaberg that he assisted men to get on the roll wrongfully. .

The SPEAKER: Order ! There is no point of order. I did not understand the ::\linister to refer to the hon. member for Bundaberg.

Tho HO::\IE SECRETAHY: I would not hrYe ref-ned to this matter in the fint imtunce if the le:tder of tho Opposition had not 1nrrde spef'ial reference to certain circuin­stances "\vhiC'h ha.ve recentlv occurred in the

Dundaberg electorate, and I [4.30 p.m] simply wish to get at tho crux of

tlw •vhole pooition. \Yhat does the hon. member do;ire? That men should Lc induced to n1ake claims \Yhich are not in acvn-dance with law? That is the position. Fro1n tho report of the evidcnc0, so far as we £an learn, tho men actualiy stated to the organiser who went round with these form< that they had not been in the electoral 0is­trict for riw rpquired time; that choy did not propose to remain in the electoral district; that they •-.-ere sin.ply thoro for a temporary purpose. Is it reasonable that men who are not entitled to be on tho roll, who do not propo::;c to remain in the clecto:·ate, vYho n,.re en!.v th\~rc· for a :...emporary purp0so-~r1oes the hon. mBmhor desire that they rhould be 1 Ja, eel in a position to exercise "tho franchise in -uch electoral districts? So far as I am cone ::·rnf' -1, and J l0ng a~ I occupy the posi~ tica > hc·_h I do on this bench, I shall oppose <n1:· a uwndnH~nt ,, hich \Yi.Il n1akc it easy for per'""' >dw are not lrp:ally and justly cn­titlccl to lw o an c'cdoral roll being placC'd th cl'. \Yh-·t is the whole intention of our cL,ctonl law? Fint of all, that m-cry man or ,, 01 ::t·c '' ho is entitled to be placed on an Plrctor.cl roll shall be so placed on that rolL In the, Bill whi{'h I <un aRldng leave to intra­due,~~ ,:,'c furthern1orc propose to n1ake it compul ... .-)r:; that <eyer:· person who_ is en.tit_led h be on the roll m accordance w1th exFtmg lco;i-lation shall be compelled to make appli­cation to he rcgist- red on such wll, .and to facilitate uch enrolment, c1nd to facilitate the keC''1ing in proper condition of our cleo­tom! ro.lls >ve propose to make provision for a bi-monthly revision court.

Mr. RuN: That is, to strike people off the roll.

Elections Acts [3 NoVEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1663

Th I-IO~IE 3ECRETARY.: Ii tl:ev are not e;ttitlcd to he oa the roll, they ,Lut;ld be struck off at ·on as possihk. I rcali~ o that it doc, not plca-o hoL me nl::,c:·" on that side -of thr f ~ou;;:,f~, but I do not propc~o to enter into that phaoe of it.

Mr. ADA~ISON : Y au do not desire people to ;,et on the roll.

The HO:ME SECRETARY: The han. member for Rockhampton knows as well as I <lo that only those persons \Yho <ue entitled to be on the roll should be on the roll, and if tho han. member contends otherwico, I know, and he knows, that he is not honest in that expression of opinion. _\t present WI'\ have the broadest franchise that exists in anv <Jountry in the world-that is, resiaenc<. Afl perc->ns who are bona fide residents in any particular electomtp are entitled to be upon the roll for that electorate.

Mr. KIRWAN: They cannot get on.

The HO::YlE SECRETARY: If that is so, which I deny, WP propose to op.,n the door ,;o far as facilities are concerned. I have alrHtdy explained that we are going tD com­pel them to make application tD be enrolled, and we are making provi:iion for bi-monthly rcvieion courts so that the busine" may be <lealt with expeditiously. On the face of ihese things, I cannot sec \Yhat broader fran­,chise is po:,sible 1 .'<1 YO as I hay 0 already Paid, it is provuscd that non-qualified persons should be placed on tl1e r,1ll. That may suit the objects and purposes of hen. members sitting on that side of i;,he House, but I take it that it will not suit men who desire to get a bona fide oxprt ssion of opinion from those who are entitled, y,ho are qualifi<'d, and who have an interest in the particular electorate for which they claim to have a vote.

:Mr. Ih:"TER: That is a low-down statement to make.

Tho HO:\IE SECRETARY: I do not know whether the han. memb~r for :V1aranoa is using parliamentary language in referring in such terms to my statement, but I can quite understand that' memberc on that side of tho House do not dedire to have a clean roll; they desire to have a roll w1tich is packed with persons who aro not qualified to vote ; and I lcayc it to themselves and the electors ·of the State of Qucensl ~nd to unswer the question: Why do they de~ire to have a roll in that condition?

Mr. KIRWAN: They will answer you.

The HO:ME SECRETARY: The hon. member must know that in providing greater facilities for tho enrolment of electors I have practically answered that. \Ve propose by means of bi-monthly revision courts, and by <'ompclling elector~ to make applic,',tion for registration, to make it possible for evny qualified person to get on tho roll. That being so. I submit that thc'rC is no neces­sity for the, House to accept any further re­commcndc,tion so far as that particular mat· tcr is concerned. Now, the han. member desires 1 he ubolition of the property fran­chise. vVhy should not an elector who has an int rest in fn,:hold property have a right to be registcrPd-only possr •sing one vote it i>" not a question of dual voting-\\hy should 'lte not be entitled to be registered for that particuLn propert:-? We have many in . .;tctnct-s ,,,here n1en, say in a town, po~.::;ess 'their place of business which is a freehold

qualification and their whole intc>rest, prac· ticaily the v. hole of their live, in their waking hours, is spent on that particular property l1l connection wrth their b~~oiness, and they may reside in a boarding-house or in an hotel at tho seaside. Thcv have no inter\ st in that electorate, as their whole interut is centred in the place where their bu,iness is carried on, and I cannot for the life of me see that it is undemocratic that those men should be leg:llly entitled to vote in connoc:io'r sith that particular qualifica­tion. Is it not an evidence of thr·ift if a man has such a c1ualification? l,J it the policy of hon. members on that side of the House to penalise thrift? I know from their platform that it is llOt their desire to help raise men up or to a•sist them to asr nnd in the scale; 1vo know, according to their policv, their desire is to fiatb_n down; to level down. Our polic_y is othervvise, and "\vhoro an elector, by moans uf his thrift, is <mabled to obtain a freehold property we say the law should permit him, as ir, doe,, to-day, and I trust will for many years to come, to be registered for th3' particular qualification. For these reasons I propose to resist the amendment so far as that particular portion of it is con· corned. I\ow, the hon. member advocates that the volunteers should be allowed to re­cord their vote. I may say that th<tt matter has received verv serious consideration. I take it that in the queotion of enabling them to pre'·ervo their rights, the House is at one. All those who o.re on an electoral roll to· day will have their rights preserved as if they were n·siding in the State, and the Bill provide' that these rights will be preserved for one vear aft•:r the conclusion of the war. Those ,1:ho are not of age at tho time they leave tho State will also precerve their rights, so that whun they return and are of age they will be entitled to make application to be placed on the roll. I went very carefully with the permanent officers of the Eler:toral Department into the question of whether it was possible to make provision that those whe1 are ;. ning forth should be enabled to re­cord their vot,os for the State election. Now, tLuning to New Zealand, see the position thoro; we find, after a scrutiny of the debate, that in connection with tho first expedi­tionar•: force which left New Zr-.tland no prm-ision was made. The second expedi­tionery force W3'' leaving just prior to the general elections in New Zealand. Ron. inl rnhcrs C!rf' aware, allotving- that our State 0lections took placo in six months, that the position is very differpnt where the elections are to tak0 place within hro months or a little over two months. The provision that was made in New Zealand was practically that thoc<e who wont forth in that force left proxies. I must ,,ay, d' aling with the proxy question, that I do not like it. And hon. m0mb0rs opposite on different occasions have objected to th proxy syotem, hut because thPv think it suit'' th0m on this occa'·ion they arC' prr'1arod to advocate it. As I can show, wh<m the Estimates ar:> on, they object to a certain method in connection with the , xccutivc a ul·horit:v. and I f'hnli show \vhen the matter com< c, up again, when they bene· fit<'d by ;t, thorP was no objection to that method hoing adopted, and the sanw thing applies h01'0. Ae far as I "m concerned, the officns of the department hcve no politics in this matt,,r; we had it car ·fully comidered, and, to my mind, it would be a most objec­tionablP principle that men should he allowed to vote b~ proxy. I quite admit all that has been said, and if it was porsible to

Hon. J. G. Appel.]

1664 Elections Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.

devise a schemu whereby the volunteers couH exercise their vote, no one would be more ready to advocate it and make it law than my,elf, as well as the officers of tho department, who have this matter at heart. But I .cay, the leaving of proxies in the hands of one man to exercise votes has many objectionable sidoe., and-God forbid it may be so-but in many instances these very men may have fallen on tho field of battle.

Mr. RYAN: Aml you propoqe to take away their vote for that.

The HOME SECRETARY: l know hon. members on that side have no objection to polling dead men. If I could adopt on ever:· u••ca~.ion the S··ntimental side of the thing, do han. members opposite mean to ray that I would not adopt. it, because on every occa­sion it is the pleasanteqt method, but we have to regard the matter from the view as to whether it can be done or not, and there is only on8 method by which it can be done, and that is by allowing those departing to le.a\ o proxio~. For the reason,s I have given I think that wo•1ld be an objeotionable method. If any method could have been found, I can only repeat. that no one would ha\"e b•en more ready or more willing than myself to have had it embodied in the Bill. Theu the hon. member desires that this amendment should cover th•· 'll'"-''tion of tho •. bolit'on of tho existing method of pop.•.! voting end the establishment in lieu thereof of a s,·stem of ab,.:mt voting. Allow that that '':IS adopted, then W•l ha\"ll to realise thrrt a br;;e number of th" mot he •·s of Queensland \Vould bo unable to record their YO···~, ar~d that sit'!;: and infirm and crippled pel-sons, •,vho are just as much cn+itlhl to exercise the franl ~1ise as anYono ch;f'. wou]d likc,_·:i:~0 bu preYentcd fro1n v voting, be.:: ~use. to poll an absent Yote ,· ou must ab end at tho polling­booth. I \Vant han. lll0J~lb.-: ~ to p-ivc thiJ their serious cor:sideration. \Y e propose that peroons shall be C011)"1Cllcd to vo>l, and when we cor-1pei persons to vote, it n1ust be re~ aliw·;{ t.hat O\Try opportt.lnit;. must be given f.) thorn u exerci·Je that vot·-;, If we say. ·• Those of you who arn living in tho distant po·tions of the Stat<>, in the scrub, and in the rnounL:lns aw,;,y from polling-Ldoths, 1 llu?t,

vote," and we kno\v that t.hev ure unJ.ble to go to polling-booths, then wo ·must give them tho opportunity of ox0rcising thr franchioe by means of tho posk I vote. That is s:1fo­guard0d in every \vay it. is po"'·siblc to safn­gnard it. Nay, we even know by reading tho dis.ussion in the Federal Lerris1aturc that members of the Labour party •·tat~d that if the provisions of ·the Commonwealth law had been safeguarded as in the Queensland law thoro would have been no objection to the postal vote being adopted so far as the C'or.Jmomve'llth was concerned. \Ve have sur­rounded these provisions with evP~y '·lfe­i"Uard. and I have not tho slightest doubt th.,t thov will be effective. Do hon. me,nbers of this Hom·o desire to doprive the wives and mothers of our selc,tors who have gone forth into the scrub and thP di·.hnt portions of tho State. do they wish to deprive thorn of tho vote? I cannot realise it. In vi•·w of the facts ihat if we arc to havo compuhor:>' Yotini" every opportunity s1wuld be giYen to the electors of the StJ.te to record their votes, and that man~· of them would be nnabl­to oury out the provisions of the la·-·. I must resist the amendment which hos be0n pro­rnsed bv tho hon. member. _\ lot of ex­tnneous matter was introduced in addition 'n tho di,cnssion of the motion. I do not

[Han. J, G . .Appel.

propose to refer to that. Hon. members have· referred to the question of a residence of twV> months being necel'sary before an elector can apply for a transfer from one electorate to, anothr c·. Well, tho Legislature decided that it was desirable that it should be done. The hon. member for Fortitude Valley asked whether I had ever heard of an eicctorato bei11g- flooded. Yes, I have, and so have many other members of this House.

Mr. BOWMAN: Did you take part?

The HOME SECRETARY: No, I resisted· it and, in some instances, very effective!;~:, too. (Hear, hear!) And I hope the day w1ll never cJmD when it will be po"sibl£ by legl8-lalive aids that persons, for political purposes, will h:.cvc the opportu11ity of flooding electo­rates, and thereby avoiding the opinion of the bona fide electors in that electorate. I do not propo'e that there shall be any amend­ment in that dire·ction, because an elector who ha been onc0 on a roll and simply changes his electorate, remains on the roll until his name appears on the roll to \Yhich he is trans£ erred.

Mr. BOWMAN: It does not.

'Ihc HO:\IE SECRE'l'AEY: All I can say IS that tho hon. m~m her is not correct 1n the aszcction hP is making.

J'llr. RYAN: You must accept his word .

The HO~'lE SECRET,\RV: I will not accept his word when I han at my back the word of the Electoral Department, who tell nltJ oth rwise. ..::\nY n1e1nh~r can come to the Hom and · :y, "·n is correct because I say it." But I, y.:-ho L prc'jont the dcp:rtment, Fl.-v that it is an in"_:orrcct c;taterncnt., and if the hon. membn Dersists in making it, then h~ ·nak~s it wirh an ulterior object, which I s:1y is rot worthv of the repntation of that hon. member. For rlasons \vhich I have givc•n, I do nd propose to Lcccpt th& amc:Hlnwn:. :md if 1 on. members "·ill only permit of the Bill being road a first time, I think when the;~' have an Oi,port.unit~· of stud;.i•·tg all its proYi:~icF, cvon they in their heut .. although they may not :.ay it pub­licly on the floor of the House, will admit that it is a poposal which \rill be beneficial to the Strrto of Qucc nsland, which \\·ill make rnore oficctivo the clr-ansing of tho ro11s, and b: cleansing the rolls and seeing that all persons who are f'ltitled to be on the rolls hav,.. t]·.,ir names so addPd to tho rollc., ·dll make for tho more 0ffcctive go' ern in" of the State of ('nc''nsland by rdlecting the true opinions of {·he c.lcdors. I do not propose to accept th· amendment.

1h. LE:\'="J0::--1 (Hubrrt\: I am not at ali surprised tb ,t the hen. member has made up his mind not to acccJt the arro.'ncl;uent. I am s·atisfled that when the lead~r of the Op:1o i 1ion r;u)ved the am"ndm .nt he may hr.vc cxprof.3ecl a hope-I did not hem· it­that he "onld accept it. I am sur" he did not expect him to do so. I am sure that the am< :1d.mcnt of the Elections Ac' s, as briefly outlined by the Home Secretary, is not a, desiraHc thing, and that this House should not accept it.- Consequently, the lc,ader of the Opnosition had mov"d an am<"ndment. The haft. rne!TI h•'l" 'NUR at great pains to reply to the lor. cler of the Onposition: he occupied " con.,ider ·1 1le time in· doing iL. and used all the argumcnfs that could be made in orde,­to ,how tha+ Queemlancl has the broadest franchise and the most liberal electoral laws

Election.~ Acts [3 NOVE'.VIBER l Amendment. Bill. 1665

in the world, and all that kind of piffie. We know that is onh talk. We know that it is only snid for the purpose of trying to throw dust in the eyes of the people. Have we the broad.·,.t fra.r.chise m existence? Take, for instance, the Commonwealth francb.ise. Every adult. after six mont.hs' residence in Aus­tntlia, is entitled to have a Yote for Aus­tralia; Lc!t ever;; adult in Q"ecnsl<Lnd must wait twelve months before he is entitled to get a vole for Queensland. Is that as liberal as the Commonwealth? Yet, because the hon. n1en11Jor says in a loud tone of voice that Queenslund h<Ls the most liberal fran­chise o.~ tb.e earth. that is supposed to settle the matter It does nothing of the kind. The Ccnmonwcalth is a model franchise. Eve··ybod;· over the age of t·vent:v-one years who ha, been six months in the Common­\Vcalth g ·ts a vote. Then, he h::ts not to reply to the sixt; '"n questions as vve have hocc. Th""O questions have been ridiculed by the ,-hole ot the Pre?s of Queensland. Th,::: aro ridiculous questions put in for the ptupo,.· of 'Jreventing p<>oplA getting enrol­ment. This party opposite wish to use every po,eibk barrier to prevent people getting on the roll. and, when thPy a.re on. to use every possible facility to get them df, so that they will have only a few electors on the roll, and Hut few of the political colour of the han. member. This party want a broader fran­chise. \Vhat we want is practically the adop­tion of the Commonwealth syc.:em---that is, that ch: months' n •. :dence in Queensland will giY·~ a man a YOte.

:vir. E. B. C. ConSER : There is a great l'Ntriction in the Common'."calth. He cannot vote in Qucer'·.land and in Xew South \Vales.

:\lr. LE::\::\0::-.!: \Ye <:nnsider that if a British subject come, from abroad, and lands in }-<.Llstralia. lands in Queensland, we 'vill S'tY, a· d he is entitled tc vote for Australia, he shw!ld he siwultaneousl:' 0ntitled to vote for Queensland. Kat so. Ife me1y arrive lwre, arL: If he is here six n.onths he may vat<' fo" th,, Senate :llld House of Repres2ntati ves, but he cannot Yote for the Queensland Asoc'"l:Jlv. Is tbt liberal' Is that broad? I think· that replies to the hm1. member witho·1t l·n.v lurther argument. The hon. thA leac.[er of the Oprosition has shown by an official lett£>r coming from Longreach, and <1t.vling with a recrmt. court, that even abbre­vi 1tions arc considered a bar to getting on the roll. If I do not write " Queensland" in full, if I rut "Q'lar.d" tha.t is improper, and I <""nnot g·et on the roll, and the hon. member said "Quite right" to that. Dear me! I have never heard a mor·' ridiculous argument, and if h<> will bolster up that position-as h" has in a loud voice h<Ilf a. dozen time< .. and in an official pronounce:ncnt, too-I believe also he will thiuk that a claim ought to be rejected If a man docs Eot cross his "t's " and dot his "i's."

The HmiE SECRETARY: The hon. gentleman is sugg; sting that. It shows what he will do.

Mr. LENNON: That hon. member would do nothing of the sort. Speaking for myself, I would give ov,•ry person every facility to get on thP roll, so long as he had been here for that time. It has been pointed out by the hon. member for Fortitude Vallev that a person m:•:v find himself in another oicctorate from that for which his name was on the roll. and tha.t he has to wait two months in that other electorate before he can claim to have

1914-5 K

a vote. Ile cannct vut 111 d c~aim the next day. and the han. member s.ays that that is quito right. With regard to the property franchise, this is the one miserable remnant-­the one puny little remnant-we have in our electoral laws of con,crvatism in Queensland. And because a man possesses property in ~ orrL>J,nton and 1ives at Bri::;bane, if it suits his r-olitical views. he may surrender his residential vote and vote for Normanton. I wili not go quite as far afield as th<1t. I will ask Lon. mcml1ers to considPr the position in Bl'isLane and the suburbs of Brisbane·. Many men may hold property in Brisbane worth £300 freelwJ.d, or leasehold of the .annual value of £20. I suppose that every office is woTth ~.)8. or lOs. a week in Brisbane, and more. fo that there arc hundreds of persons who arc entitled to vote for Brisban<> in respect of their frcPhold or lca"ehold, and ':.ho might ~''' willing to relinquish their resi­d<'nt.ial vote for \Vindsor, Toowong, or any other suhmb. That has been done I under­etancl! in {1 V\ hol:esak manner' already. Peo;1',c v>·ho for years have been living in Toowong·, and have been in the habit of voting· to:- Toowong, ha vc conceived a desire to vat~ for Brisbane, and bv a free use and nwnipula 'ion of this jJrope1;ty franchise sur­r<'nder their votes in ToLm ong and olaim to hJtP in rencct of their freehold and lease­hold intorc;ts in Brisbane. Thev hav-e done that, I believe. in a wholesale manner for the purpose of defeating the hon. memb<er for Brie.' .. " e. -and thP h;,n. member says '· Quit<> right.'·' to tha+-. V\.,. e d{) not regard that as a hoed liberal franchice. \Ve regard it as a very narro''"' franchi&c, 1\nd one -;vhich n1ight lcvl to v0r. serious difficulti<>s, and def<>at the opinion of the electors, and as -a ·franchise Y>hirh should <'ertainly he objected to by ev-r:·~· reafJJnahle man.

Mr. Ru~: They are getting back to VVindsor now, I understand.

11r. LEN::\'0::'\: I undcr.otand they are, and I do think mv e1f-I live in Windsor-that th 0 Lihr3l pa.rt;.- will be he.avily defeated in 'ulat ck~-.:,n·atn at the I:t'Xt election. VVith r• ;;;co· d to the voluntrere, the hon. member ha::; led thiB I-1ouse to b~lieYe that bv giving to th<>se people--to t'l(' volunteers, \vho arc ;riving themselves, giving their lives, possibly, tor the Empire-by giv-ing them a mere rPsi­dence qualification he is conferring a benefit on them-by telling them that they will be entitkd to have the fr,anchise until a. vear aft"r the war is over. ·

The HO:liE SECRETARY; Kot a benefit. It '"ill be a right which they shall have.

l\lr. LENKON: What is tne good of the right if there is no provision for the exer­cise of the right? What is the good of con­ferring on a person an advantage if you do not put in his way an opportunity of exer­cising that advantage? Let us suppose that we have ten or twenty, or two or three thousand men in Bricbane preparing to go

away for the purpo"' of fighting [5 p.m.] for the Empire-fighting for us.

\Ve talk about our 200 guineas, 300 guineas, and 500. or 5,000 guinea. subscrip­tions, as tho capitalists do, but all they give i>- a~ nothing compared with what these ;\"olmg men are doing for the Empire and the country.

0PPOSITIO~ MEMBERS: Henr, hear!

Mr. LEXNON: These pecple should have the opportunity of exercising their votes. I

JJ.Ir. Lennon.]

lGGti [A 'l8E1IBL Y.] Ankndmcnt Bill

see no reason why they should not be entitled to vote by proxy. Thy might get killed, and then would not have a vote. A man who g-iws his life for the Empire is not to have a vote. If he happ:ms to get through, God b ol ping hin1, and come3 back a 3 ear aftu· the war, he will find ihat he is enrolled as a voter for his electorate That is not the thing. \Ve want thcs<: 3.000 or 4,000 men to have the right of exercising their vote >Jt the ensuing State elr'ction. tiurely it is a f<'asible thing to say that, the mctttcr could be in the h,nds of the rccc~nised leader of the Liberal party, the leader of the Labour p,1rty and of the country parb·. I understand the C\luntry ·party has no organi·Htiun now; that they ha;-e no official lc·nder, so perhaps they had bett<er hurrv up and s~lec~ some pereon. L0t C'ach part~· be rP)wewnt'd. I ":mld c\'fn appoint the chief rna:;istratP of the cit;c. or even a SuprPrnc Court judge, as chairman of this corntn1,"sion J o takE' tlws0 vet's \Yhich are kft. Thov will bo able to say 'YhcthPr thev vote for the Labour party. the Liberal part~:. the Independent party or thi· country party. A commission of that sorl could surely give ofl'r•ot to the desires of thcs' men who arc r oing to fight. Y f't th0 hon. gcn, l01nan sa~-~ h·' is doing t.h0rn a g-ood t.nrn h:v k~; ;1i11ff thr>ir names on tho roll. but not providing au~· f'•cilit;- for them t·1 exercise their votes. I "•n e~t; <fiod that the hon. gentleman, if he is

nwrnlwr of an:<· public committee of any kind v. hatPver. i", in tlw b bit of Pxerci"•ing proxy vot0 . and whatever may b<> said against 1~'-'0X'/ YOtf'R, in a f' of this kind, \\-hPre

those men cannot exercise thPir votes in any other way. let thorn exercise their votes by ]lrnx,·. The hem. gentleman, after consult.a­tirn with the official in charge of the Elec­tnra 1 Offic·'. finds it is not workable, but I have sketched out briefh "hat I consider i,, a practical solution or' the trouble. The hon. rrcntlernan does not want to find any ~nlntion of it. He ants to find out how it { 11 qot llf' done. to put f'Yf'rythlng- in i-11('

, __ -.y of thPf''' P1<'!1 f'XI'reislng their vot0. RO t hev will let them remain en the roll a y JCP' "'Hr-r thr~ ~-var is n~.0r. If hcP. nlPmh0r"' ;,:llFJ;;::it0 \Yani· .1 {air a11rl <.<.Ot':lr·· TI-i11. thPv v•·:ll ~nnport thP ampndn1Pnt 'of th0 lr•nder c;f ibn OppoFition.

:\Ir. KIR\V.t::\' (Bri : I listened with u ; nat deal of attc,ntion tho explanation gi n•n bv th<' Horne Secretary as to tho r0ason . :1ich has prompted the Government to in­troduu~ at the P10\·'--... ~:ti"I hour a furth· r ;· ";n•Ednwnt o£ thq Electoral A'~, I think tho l '.Hler of tho Oppositlon haR g-iven an appor­t unit. b~- H10Ving hir. amendnwnt to 1.~:·ove the oft-rp· ,, -.,·eel a~-"2Jcrtious of han. gentlemrn oppositr; as to their dPsirc that every ncrf-,)11 \Yho is qualifiPd sho11ld be on the roll, and ~ lwt en·n one on the roll should be accc-rded en oppr.rtunity to '".)te. The Home Secretary c icl thnt no per(lon was knocked off the roll until they were abl0 to get on the roll of the 1 • ct.orat~" to \vhic h thc-v had rcmv" prL I an1 ,t~rpris' d at tho hon. g-entleman making such

s:rdcmcnt. People vvho haye never romoy~d a' all are tnken off the rolL I have had S' vera! nses in mv own clnctorate. I could mc•ntion ·hvo instan"''S. I am not blaming his offi .. ials but if the Government is sincere in their pr..te,tntions that pPople :"hould be afforckd "' 'rv opport.unitv of getting on the : oll, thqv should protect those people from h•l_n.rr knoC'kP.J off b~~ un:,crupulous persons. In on0 instaP( :- thf'l'f' \Yero five p':'nlllC' living in a housP, and one of thcn1 "\Vas knock+•d off as h.Ying left, but he had not rernowcl. If a

fJfr. J,ennnn.

consbble had Yisited the house in tho course of his dut~· o£ revising the roll under instruc­tions from the Home Secretary, h·c· Y "JU!d wrPl:<· have discoyered that those persons W•lrc still resident thrrc. I do not wish to a~tribute anv ulterior motives in that rnatb-r. Jn another ·instanC'(\ a man had bcPn in nn clr-c~orato for t\v.c::nt:v :vears, and five y~,ars at his last residence. and he got a card informinn: him that his name would be "truck off as lw had left. I think y: T~Ol" should be protected. and officers should rri•;p in­for~lktion tu to tl!t ntnnes of those who ':-uppli0d thzon1 with infonnation '''hich led h pcrsom being knorked off Htc rolL The hon. gentle n:tn ta.lked ,, bout the 'w2 np­ing of f-..le( !'orate:~ and then in the vPr_v nPx t breath he clefc·ndcd the swamp inn: of tlw Brisbane electorate, and approved of it. bP· cause he said thPfl." rnen vrero allowed to vote for bricks and 1nort~r inst<~ad of thrir ow11 k n::malit,·. I think it js right that the House c"hon!tl know about wmc of tho method'

l<nt"d hy thP party opposit-e to dd0at me rmfairh. Th(· Home Secrctc.rv distinctlv said :ha+ tl1e policy of tho LjberUJ party ,,·as to ''Pt'\"•nt s\Yalnping-, and I a1n giving- concrctt\ i:~: ':ulf,'' in ,,,hich tlw~- br·JiPVf' in thP S\"\~tmp­i"r- of P}e:·tor:lt( s. There is a cerbtin pil'ce of lnnd in Roma str0ct for which four rnrmb,•rs of a fan1.ih· arc 1~0"'ident That i~ not onl v swmnping, ·but. g-err:vtnand('ring. Those arc th"e tac"ic"· adopted by the Gov<>rnm<'nt in order to :l· f< at me. Since the last el0ction thcv m·c introducing vot0s ,,-hol<'sale on the Brisbmw roll in this particu"r manner. The hon. gentl<>­rnan said it was wrong that the people in an 'keto rate honld be ckprived of elect ill{! " r<'nresontativc of that ekdorate. How can he" in the fac • of that statf'mPnt. cldend tbe tactics which arc boino- c>nnlw.·cd bv th0 Ton partv in Brisban~ i; ordPr' to d0feat the Labour candidate at the next election?

Tho HO:IIE SECRETARY: Have they not got an intcro,t in the electorate?

:\Ir. KIH\YX:'\: Thev ha;-o an interest in tho cl(•eton:te, but it is sv{amping, and no b;--pla~· on t],e part of tho Home Secretary e !ten th ·t fact--it 'tands oLJt like a moun­tain on the skY line" Hon. members opposite UfCUSI'd this [)arty of getting their i· upporterS on the roll in a clandestine manner. Have they forgotten the scandal in connection with a rertain election? In view of the tactics employed on that occasion hon. g·cnt Iemen on the front Treasury bench ought to be the h t to impute motives to this partv. I will defer wh ::t further re­n1arks I 'have to n1ake to th~ s 'Cond read­ing-; but if \VC' are to ha \-e compu}v,ory (·r;rohncnt and C'OlTipu1 ·ory voting I hope thrt <'Yen· one entitled to be on the roll will be g-i n)n an opportunity to get e10re, .and he vi;'( n an opportunitv to vote, a!l-d if that is done, hon. gentlemen opposrto will g·et tl oir right place in this .f!ou~e, ,, hich is in thP cold shades of opposrtwn.

·;._rl'. FI1I~LLi~: Th.-. prl cont Gov~·rrr,1011t "H' d some of the sorriest lcgislati,·p

FY)) 7, kl.'>v/n to (lw'C'n-lnP<l. In C'lrJ·tion matt<'l'' I think theY f1avc surpassed all pre­cl ccse-ors. In 1913 thvv rPrnived a fright nH.cr the F0doral c'ed1on and immediately l'"'rndn""rl n R;ll to fikh frnm th" p.lf•f'tor-~ the fran;·hisn \Yhich was their due and their riO'ht Thcv haYe 1nado that :measure so ro~np.lcx th~t it is ahno~t imnossible for an p)<•ctor to got on the roll, and it is quite oimnle and fasv to get knocked off the roll. Within the space of a year in my electorate,

Elertions Acts [3 K OVEMBER.] Amendment Bzll. 1667

.about 3,000 people have been knocked off. Fortunately, by my own vigilance and that of my supporters, we made up for that, and thev have not suc:Jet ded in their dc~in:-s. Th{s is an illu_,tration of the a3su·-,,,in's method the:y are prepared to follow, the methods of th0 :Ylafia, and the~· are prepared to deocend to the 10\wst depths to gain a paltry party advantage. Th<'c' did not fiud tint the Act was sulli<il'nt fOl' thL'ul, b·· atre this vear the Federal elections ·also went to the Labour party, and a fresh nlCU.:iure \vas introduct:d to tvmper agajn with thr· fr:_._nch~-·C. Thv.-", in 1911, we had tho Redistribution of Seats Bill to make safe some of the Conservative seats oyer there. \Ve had in 1912 the Industrial Peace Bill, in 1913 the Elections Acts to filch the franchiRe from the people, and in 1914 something similar. 'l'hey are always endeavouring to do something to limit the Yoting rights of the people and to -cripple our young den1ocracy. I am rather astonished <~t the Home Secretary's 'open support to the electoral registrar or tho magistrate in Longreach. His open support moans that the practice approved of there will be followed throughout Queensland. That means that the word "Q'land" oannot stand for Queensland, which is re­ducing those forms and the whole system of re c,ponsible government to a burlesque. In the. telegraphic code in the Common­wealth K.S.\Y. stands for ~ow South Wales and for one word in the telegram \Vhat an a tounding thing that "N.S.\V.," which obtains as an abbreviation in everv State in Australia is not to -be rec0gnised. "As the hon. member for Buranda interjects, it be­comes so childish that the elector is frightened to attempt to p,nswer any of the que.,tione. The Home Secretary, in his Bis­rnarckian \vav. which is so popular at Engelsburg and Boon:,h, and particularly in the Logan, said or insinuated something in regard to the han. member for Bunda­berg and Mr. Ge-Jrge Ryland. He made some statement suggesting that they were "nil tv o' diohonest practices. If there is ~no i::nan in this House who should refrain from :tccusing another of dishonest practice::~ it is the Home Secretary. I do not suppose that in any public department of .Australia eo many pros.,cutions c,re suppressed as there are in the Hc>:tlth Department here. The health offi~ars were !;'0ing to resign in a bod> on account of the corrupt practices oi the· Hom<' Secretar:-. 'l'hero is no doubt that he is the most corrupt l\tinicter, in his O\\ n wa;"", in politics in ~L\ustra.lia.

The RPEAKBR : Order ! :'>.Ir. FIHELL Y: The Home i:\ccretary is

.-erv fond of charging members on this side ,,~ith di-ho:H'~t prartic':'~. I notic ~Toll chd 11ot call him to order when he r·hargcd Mr. George Rvland and the han. rr::omber for Bunda berg.

The SPEAKER: Order! I ask the hon. nwmber whether he is dio_ussing the main question or tho amendment? ·

::'YTr. FIHELLY: I am discussing in a broad ;;·:,' the amendment. In particular I am referring to a matter that was not in order at tlw timE>-that was the charge made bv .the Home s, rrc,b.ry agrrin;;t the hon. n;rmhPr for Bundaborg and ::\1r. George RYland.

,The IIOME SFC'RET"\RY: May I be per­mitter! to sav that I did not refer to the non. member, for Bundaberg?

Jl.lr. FIHELLY and other OPPOSITION 1\fE~f­BEl B: You haYc.

The SPK-\KER: Order! I must eay that, as will ,appear from "Hanearcl," I did not undr'rstand the 11 orne Secretary to allude to the han. l:'ember for Bnndaberg.

Mr. B.\'lBER: He did, by insinuation.

Mr. FlHELL Y: Tho Home Secretary i~ very fond of huding accuoations against memb0rs on this side of the Hon·e. He has at different times made charges against the han. member for Herbert, but he i, not game to acc:pt the chalhmge t 1ll'own dmvn to him by t.h:!,t hon. 1nunb' r anrl rcpc-.1t the an1e c ··1a1 ;_ f''3 out- ide.

The SPEAKER: Orckt' 1 Tile hon. mcm­L_·r is not pur,.uing a parliun1entary course 111 the reru rl\>. he b rna:;:ing, a:od I rnust ae:Jk hin1 now to di~cu·~s tho anwrtUin-~-nt 1H~fore tho House.

Mr. FIIIELLY: Very well; I think I have dealt sufficientlY with the matter under dis­cuHion. The ,;hole principle of governing b,v the pres<>nt Administration of Queensland rs founded on corrupt practicP' in regard to the franchic'"· They are seeking by every possible method to make it diiflcult for people to got on thP roll, and they are doing every~ thing in their po11 er to knock off the names of people \ hen they arc on the roll. \Y e haYe '' >Yer heard before such a nonsensic11l propo,al as that of making voting compul­sorv on a limited Plectoral roll. As a maher of fact, the GoYernment not only propose to n1ake voting ccnnr)ulsory, ~ut tlwv are going to insist upon non~e;;;;sentJaJ details; they ·-··ill not allow the abb~e­yiations "=".S.\Y.," or "Q'ld.," and they wlll in:sist unon the ( .tc,,,,.,ing of C' .-~'r: "t ') and tho dutt""ing of Yery " i." But hOw L(re they going t.u ecnnpcl 1_;cople to vote who do uot "' j ·~l to vote or \Yho cannot get on the tc 11; I dt) nut :--,lpp{ 'C' ~nell dt•spieablo i•rachccs as tho ,e for .,'';Lich the pre-cnt Govl'riHne·1t are rL~)ponsiJlC! have ever Loen t<lrrit','l en in an,\ Gth:·r part of Au:--tralia. \Ye c:_;rhti·lh~ have the Pxarr1vlo of gerry­r; .qndcrillg' tf1c c1ectoratc3 in Honth Australia) r;nd we kno,·,T that that wo1d '• gerr:_vinau­t10r'' ar J·· ~ frorn the artion of one of the GoYcrnor3 of one of th0 StateJ in ,\Inerica.

The SPEA .. KEU: Ord ·r 1 I sh,. 11 nut call upon tho bon. mc'mb('l' again to addrb.l him­sol£ to the amt'nd:n0nt bdorc tho Hou&e.

:'11r. FIIIELL Y : I will read tho amend­rn nt in rupport of n1y a~g nnent tha~ gcrry­nLn-rlcrine:, the olcetors l" not providing a hroadrr f1anchi~0. The mneiHlrn<•IJt prurwsPs th_;t th r,~ ::-houlcl b• ~;i,Tt·n .-. fn,atC'r f ,~ili· +iPs for t1L' Pnrolling· of clp('+;n·s.'' I t -n:cnr1

that it i:'l nf'C('',~ r~· thst t.rPat('r i ~cJiti{'~ ~bon1rl 1lC' !.!:i\-"H tu Pl0etor!" to p.-Pt t 11Pir names on thP roll, and th;.t it 1honld not b,, made cliffieult fur thco1 to b,_eo.ne enroll 'd. The amcndm<'nt also dPals with ''the uholition of the proL1e1:ly fl'·fl.nchi''(~." I hav" net co:mc to tlwt port''HJ ,-,f tlw amendment yet. It further rlr>al, \Yith "the recording- of the YOtf -, of Yoluntec-rs le , ying (\uecnsland in any cxrwclitionan fore'<' for th<' purpo'·e of the def• t:r ~ of the Tiritish EP1pire .1nd it- nllif ~-" I notic that Qup,~', h:ncl is spelt "Q'lancl ,. in th,~ an1:-ncltr:c-nt .. and \-' _,t the anlPndnH'nt hB'l he<. 'I dCC.'nh·cl. Anctlcc r pronoc .11 in the anwnrlrnent ic that "-hich deals ' ith the "abolition d the existing method of postal votino- and th.e eshhlishmc'nt in lie'! thr'reof of a ;'vstmn of ahsent voting." Some of thosE' matters I have not so far touched upon, but I hope to be able to deal with them before

Mr. Fihelly.]

1668 El,octions Acts [ ASSE::JIBL Y.] Amrndmwt Bill.

I finioh. To come back to the question of g('rrymanclering, which is an unfortunate practice of the Liberal party in Australia, I ha vc described this Bill as a gerrymandering Bill, and that is exactly what it is. 'The Bill is brought forward b:: a party who received £2,000 from an anonymous donor, and that anonyrnous donor must have ~orne l'eturn for his contrib<ttion. That return is probably incorporated in this Bill. The person who gave that £2,COO di~ not give it for nothing; he expected something in return. You do not fee tl1e patriotic fund or a University bursary or a hospital endowed to that extent. But v" find that an anonymous person gave £2,000 to the hon. member for Toowong for the Premier for party purposes. It is there­fol2 not surprising that we should have introducd a Bill which interferes with the right of e\cer:· man and woman who lives in Queensland. I an' ashamed of the party opposite taking advantage of the soldiers in the Expeditionary Force, of those men who have bern spoken of so feelingly by the hon. membEr for Herbert-the men who are going awaY to fight the fight of the Empire. I am astonished at th0 action of the Home Secre­tary in rcg.ud to those men. The hon. gen­tleman might have incorporated in this mea­sure a provisi?n giving them an opportunity to vote, inste.td of depriving those people ~ 'l'Ying in the ExrJeditionary Force of their inalienable right to the exerci:•e of the fran­chise•. It vvould be quit,, cas.\ to give them a vote. by J'Oerely providing that they should vote Labour Dr Liberal, and kavc their vol in the hands of some truste<', possibly a judg·e Oi' other person outside the Ministry who would not be personally biassed in the matter. The thing could easily be done; it is simplicity itself. At any rate. if there is one section of the communitv entitl·•d to vote it is the men who nrc going away; if th~re ic one man who i. padicularlv entitled to vote, it. is the man '·' ho is going to di<: ; he is entitled to ca-·t his last vote behrr• he leaves Qtwensland. We know very well that all the''' in·ave young fellows who are going away will not come back; we know that to our sorrow. and the least we can do is to give tlPm their citizen rights before they ]p 1v0. I would not mind the Government rPfusing to give thr :n an opportunity to vote if one logir:ll rzcasrm could be adv~nced in fawmr of such a propo,aL But there is no c.uch l'('D ~;Jn, and our party system makes it m eimpk nnd easy for men to vote; there is not on" ~Pnuinf' or ]ega] objection to allow­ir,<" mPmbns of the :F;xpeditionar:: Force to vote in blank. if thev did not deo,ire to record their vote' f01: my party. I a'n suro tho citizeLs of Queensland will not endorse the action of the GovernmPnt in pre­venting those young fellow" exercising the franchise before they go away. There is another matter in connection with the dis­cussiun on this Bill, and that is the disgust· ing charge made by the Home S<ocretary in regard to the Bundaber;c Elr ~tara! Court. The certificate, which it is said should have been signnd by Mr. R:vland, who is an Ex­member of this ~'l.sscmbly, was not printed on the form of applic·ltion. ThPre are sixt.f'Pn juYonile questions printed on that form, such as " \Vhat ship did you come by"? " How did vou arrive here?" and other trifling and nons.enical que,tions that could only have originated in the mind of a small and mean man who had not grasped t.he fundamental principles of British freedom. The magis­trates can catch a man because some de· claration is not made, but I challenge the

[J!-r. F•:helly.

Home Secretary to show that ~ per cent. 0f the forms sent m to the electoral registrar in any town, eentre, or electorate, have the certificate referre'd to filled in and 3igned. The Horne Secretary can easily reply to my challenge. All he has to do is to consent to answer a queotion in the Home. But I find that que' ,tions are not answered in this r~Iouso llO\V, that MinistiTS evade questions because they have some personal concern i1; them, and because there is something hidden and concealed that thev do not wish to come to the light of dav. I ask how many of tho~e certificates were 'forwarded and how many were sig,ncd and witne~sed in th<> ordinary way? Tho answer would prouably b0 that none were signed. I know that in my own ··lcctorate several hundreds of men have sent i'l applications without such ccrti­ticates. and those aprlications were not in­terferC'd with, probably because to have dono w would h;we caused too much commotion in the meb·opolis. Thev thought to do thi;, with ,;vir. Ryland in Bu,ndaberg, where they probably thought they might find an officer who Y~ould act liku the magistrate who sen· tenced a wharf labourer to three months' imprisonment for stealing goods to the value· of 6:1. 3d., while lw let off a baby poimner. At any rate, if that certificate was intended to be used, it certainlv should have been prin; od e>n the form cor;taining the ordmary que,tions )Jut to applicants for enrolment. \Vhat is the use of that form? Simulv to. bludgeon the worker. as the GovDr'in1tcnt bludgeoned m batoned him in 1912. They no-..v v,·i~ ",1 to baton the \Yorker in another and probably more effective wav. I have jm:t been handed a pamgraph \Vith regard to Qkdion !natter;;;, whirh r0f~:rs particularly to the eviden' e given by a ~lr. Dent. It a.pp, :trfi t\. t Dent n1utiliatcd offic~al record;:;. The paragraph says-

" Continuing, the witness (Mr. Allars}. re'td from a report made to him and signed by three officers, in which it was. stated that Mr. Dent had been observed hy thorn to remove surreptitious],· c0rtain l<_,{tvcs from certain n1cmorandu1n books,. the property of the d{'LJartment, and con­veyed them out of the office. Mr. Dent w:ts called upon for a rfcport, and stated that he had removed one page contain­ing memoranda that had nothing to do· with the department."

This was the man whom the Chief Electoral Officer, Mr. AHars, described as a worthies,; fellow. The• rc··ult wa3 that he received an ofl1ce under the State Government of Queen~­lancl. That was the reward for his perfidy f1 o·:1 th' ., 1nctimonicms and unctuous ]\i[inisters. cit>inrT on the Treasurv Bench. Some of them ,, ould not tell a lie, 'but they would cut the jloli:it.d throat of other people. This evi­donc•" shovn that )fr. Allars. Commom1·ealth E!ertoral Officer, " inforn1ed Dent that his Jf'tion con~titu1•?d a scriDus offence." That is the 0f man upon whom the Liberals rely f01' ir 0lectoral kno\lledge. His figures b,com0. their electoral Bible, and those figu1'f'S \Vf're possibly t~_unpered vdth to suit Mr. D.ont's cvidf'ncc. Mr. Lacko:.-, the Liberal cwdidute who stood for Brie.bane. stated that if all th 0 Liberals had gone to the poll h0 \YO'lld nrobablv have won the election. ~o ,c]nubt :Yir. La,;kev wils under the impres­sion that if thP Lihernl vot<>rs had rolled up he would have had a majorit:.-, <":d that seems to be the general impresoion of Liberals to-day. They. no doubt, believe that if they prevent an~ but staunch Liberals'

Elections Acts [3 NOVEMBEB.] A.mendment Bill. 1669

gettinr,· on the roll, they will be ablo to keep a majority in this HousP until things become so bad that they find the people will no longer stand them. If pf'ople have their rights &~olen and fi:ched from them, they •.;ill ctdopt the methods adopted by the noble kgion of frontiersmen from Esk, and if they ~annat get their rights by ballot they will have to use batons. The Government may be raising a Frankenstein for them­ct•ln"•· and the_;" will have a better uvprecia­tion later of what it means to interfere with the rig-hts of the people. I hope the Expe­dition.ary Force will get votes; that each man 'vill be allowed to vote before he goes

away. I have shown •a "ay, the [5.30 p.m.] leader of the Opposition has also

shown a way, and other members have sho·.,·n an cQsy .and very facile way. The postal Yote should be abolish"d, and we should return to the absent ,-oting system, which wa,; availed of previous to the pflssing of the last Ad. To talk of the lame, t'he halt, and the blind being deprived of voting is so 1nuch nonsense. l-Ion. Inem­bers opposite ne,-or think of g1vmg a vote to the old people in Dunwich, the old pioneers to whom the hypocritical member for Toombul wishes to give a r.ailway pass, although he ne\er thinks of giving them a vote. which would be -a great deal mor{) appreciated than a jaunt down to Southport on the raih\ay. As I said before, I .am ashamed o' the party opposite-asharne·d of them-as Queenslanders. I do not think they -aro Queenslander,;. I do not think they are all Britishers. They have not a monopoly of talking about disloyalty, and I do not think hott. members opposite are all Britishers. I am ashamed of the.n endeavouring to inter­fere \vith the rig'hts of the ordinary voters, and in particular with the righh of that small Expeditionary Fore.~ which is going away to hold np our end of tho stick and fight for the British Empire in another place.

Mr. P AY);E (Jd:itclwll) : I think the leader <Jf the Opposition, in quoting the letter from Longreach. gave sufficient proof why the arn~ndrncnt 'hould be carried. If there was no other reason at all for supporting the amendment, the fact that it proposes to give a vote to the Yolunteers who are le-aving QuPensland would induce me tD vote for it. Th(· Home Secretary certainlv spoke in rather a land voice, hut he never gave one <trgurnent against tho arnen9_rn{)nt. He kept on saying, " \Vhat is the franchise for" ? " \Vhat hos the Lib<>ral Government been pah,ing amending Acts for "? I would say to prevent every wm·ker that they possibly can from getting his name on the roll. If han. members on the other side have travelled about \Vestern Quoonsland, they must know that the last Act, passed in 1913, disfranchisPd some of tho best men in Queensland. I could bring score' of men to the bur of the House to prove that the:; are natives of Central Queensland, that they have never been out of Qurensland-I ·am not saying they have never been out of the Mjtchell f'lectorate, as they follow the Dccupation of she-aring-and un•rler our elcetor-al laws they are not entitled to have a ,-ote, and if there is any fair play at -all about the Government. thev will have no hesitation in acceptin'l' the ,'imendrnent. I am ju't ll' much opposed to anyone hflving a vote falsc·ly as -any member of this Hous<'J, and I think the Horne Secretary went a bit too fac when h8 kept chirping about members of the Opposition not hesitating to use dead

men's votes. \Vhat was the result of the in­vestigation made after the second last Federal election. when the Cook Government was returned to office.'? If there was any corrup­tion or anv 1vrongdoing, in the majority of case' it -s.{s done by the Liberal supporters. it was proved that there was very little corruption and very little irnperROnation; but it is very easy for any man, let alone the :Vlinister at the head of the Horne Department -anv sillv old fool can sit on a bench ·and say that the Labour party does not hesitate to uso dead men's votes. The trouble with the Labour party in Amtralia has been that they are too honest.

The SPEAKER: Order! I must ask the han. member to keep to the question before the House.

Mr. PAYNE: I am answering the charge made by the Home Secretary that the Labour party have not scrupled to use dead men's votes.

The SPEAKER : I hope the han. member will not continue on those lines. His re­marks have nothing to do with the amend­ment.

Mr. PAYNE: You allowed the Horne Seo­rctarv eery great latitude in that matter, and I want to reply to the charges.

The SPEAKER : Order!

Mr. PAYNE: There are no grounds for anvbod-,. either inside this House or outside,· to" chm:ge the Labour party with dishonest practice". The principle of compulsory en­rolment and compulsory _voting may be all right and I would heartily support such a svstem if the franchise of the State of Queensland was the same as the Common­wealth franchise Apart altogether from the six or tweh-e months' qualification, the fact that a person has to reside two months in an electorate before being entitled to make application to get on the roll penalises the nomadic population of Queensland, and the Home Secretary knows it. Still, the han. gentleman argues that the Government are making provision for _every ;man and woman in Queensland who ts entitled to have a vot" getting on the roll. The members of the Expeditionary Force should get a vote, and mv heart goes out to those men, no matter· how off-hand the Home Secretary may speak o£ them.

The HOME SECRETARY: That is incorrect. I did not speak in .an off-hand way.

Mr. PAYNE : The hon. gentleman spoke about dead men having a vote. I am not insinuating that the han. gentleman is not as loyal as I am. I will give him that credit until I find otherwise, but the hon. gentle­man has no right to speak in a light way of men who have volunteered to fight for the Empire. Probably only two out of every three of those men will return to Queensland, and every. facility shol!ld be ,;iven to them to exermse the franchtse be­f~r~ they go. The hon. gentleman said it was impossible to allow them to vote by proxv but from what I gathered from his rern,;;ks when moving the moti.on, _there does not appear to be any p~ovJ~ton . m the Bill. even if there was an .,,ectwn m t:vo months' time, for those volunteer~ ~o exercise the franchise. Surely some proviswn_ should be made to enable them to record then• votes once the candidates were announced. The

Mr. Payne.]

] 670 Elections Acts [ASSE2.\IBLY.] Amrndmcnt Bill.

Home Secret~ry spoke in a very loud -way about their names being retained on the different electoral rolls for twelve months after the conclusion of the war. What is the g-ood of having their names on the roll if thcv cannot exercise the franchise before leaving the State? It has also been pointed out in the letter read by the leader of the Opposition that if you have oflicials in dif­ferent centres of Queensland who are going to draw the lin0 in such a narrow way, a nnmbe1~ of working n1en will be disfanrhiscd. I am surprised at the Home Secretary say­ing " Hear, hear!" to the fact that a claim would be disallov.cd if it harl "N.S.W." as an aUore:iation for New South \Vales. I can put "N.S. \V." on any letter and it will go anc·v, here in N cv, South \Vales. Then as to the date of birth, you can find any number of men in Queensland to-day who do not know the date of their birth, and according to the instructions from Mr. Aird. of Long­! c•ach. those men would be disfranchised. Ko class in Qn0ensland dc-.erves more con­sid<':·ation than the nomadic population of this country, as they have done more to open up and develop the country than any othPr rlas' in the communitv. I remember sp< 1king on this question before, and the Pre1nier was ',urprised that manv men in Queensland did not have a fixec!" place of abode. I pointed out at the timF that a man might be shearing five or six weeks in one shed, and then four or five weeks in another shed. and it might happen thai owing to the run of shearing he would get for one season he would not be for two months in any one electorate, and he would not be entitled tD vote, although he may be a native of Queensland.

The Ho~fE SECRFTARY: He must have some place to which he intends tD return. ~r. PAYNE: The Home Secretary does

not seem to understand the sit.uation.' And these are the nwn you are trying to push off the roll-o:ou know veH well that thev ahvavs vote for· the La hour· party. If you gi\·e every man and vroman a vote ,vho has a right to vote, I am prepared to stand by the result to·morro..,.. but when vou see " Go­vernm<'nt, for th purpose of 'trying to stick in office, putting every possible obstacle in the wav of the YH' be,,t class WI' have in Qup0nsland exercising the franchise, I say it is not a moral thing to do. I hope, apart from partv feelim;, this House will consider the amenomcnt rnovctl b, the leader o: the Opposition, and rsive to every man who is entitled to vote the right to vote. \\' e do not want am de:c>d men to \'ote. That is all bunkum and nonsense on the part of the Home Se·';·etary. He is always representing that the Labot:r party want dead men to vote. I 1 ,ave already· pointed out that the investi(\'ati•m by the Commmhve:.lth Com­mission proved that if there were anY dead men >vho voted at the Federal clectioll, it wa, Liberal supporters who did it. I again appeal to the Housf' to give evcrvonp en­titled to a vot8 the right to vote. '

Mr. BARBER (Bundabrrg): I wish to sa'C two or three words in support of thr amend. ment moved hv tht> hon. the lead<>r of the Opposition. I 'nlso wish to take the oppor­tunity of r 0 plying to some of the state­menb-',c,-hich aJ'•\ untruP, I might say­which have been made bv die Home Sccrct,m·y on the strength of· a report con­tain<'d in that boodle organ, the " Courier " to-day. I have here a 1·eprint of 'a rf'port that appeared m the " Courier"

[Jlr. Payne.

to-day, and, as one of the public who sat in the Bundaberg Court, not taking any part a, •tated hue, I sa,· that the report is not only a. fJiass0d report c0111ing froiTl the Bnndaberg " :Ylail" office, but it is also in­correct so far as ,"•cvoral :,tatmncnts .arc con­< erned. \Yh;;· did not the hon. member have tho honoi'ty and the decnncy to wait for an official report from the police magistrate who presided? Why did not the hon. member have the decency to \\a it until the local papers with their reports cctme to hand, and read them bdore drawing his conclusions as to which ,.·as likely to be a correct statement of what actually took place? The hon. member made a great noise about the intentions of tho Govern:nt•nt to grant greater facilitie·· to the people to g;<>t on the rcJJ. How often have hPard i ~L.tt fro1n thf' Homo Secre­tary in this Chamber '! On one hand, .vuu. haYe 1aen like the Home Secrctar:c and hon. men1hcrs occupying the front Treasury bench, und members of tlie Libual party generally, appealing to these young men of Queensland to !W to the a,,i,t·Lncc of the n1o!::-her eountry in thf-~ titaniC' struggle in which she is engaged. and on the other hand \H' are told b.v the Home Secretar,· that they are not fit tn exercise the franchise and hold the po.;ition of a citizen of Queensland.

Th0 SECHETARY FOH PuBLIC LAXDS: No.

:VIr. BAHnER : \Yill the hon. member \Vake up and read the n- -)orts in " Han­oard "? \Vi!! he nad the speech<., of his colleague, and he -•, ill find out that what the Home Sccre!ary has said is simply a duplication of what th0 hon. member has said a hundrC'cl time,, in this House. and <'Specially when the amending Ace was g·oing through !ast year.

T·he SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC LANDS: He never cctid they were unfit or implied that they IVz~rC' unfit.

:VIr. BARBER: He mav not have ,,aid it in words, but he has imp;:,ted it in just the same way as, althoug,h he did not mention my name, he attempted bj a bace, low, in­.sinuntion, by ill:Jucndo, to state or imply that I was mix ·d up with \Yhat had taken place in Bundalwrg.

Th,, SECRIITARY FOR PcBLIC LAxna : Then ::ou rPply by another innuendo.

:\lr. BABBEH: Let anvbodv read the r~:narks of the hon. memb~r th1s afternoon ._~ .:i the::T aplll'Jl' in "}Iansard" to-n1orrow, ,and he \rill find that they w ·ify the state­ment I made. I nsked the han. member how it was that only at this one annual court, affecting the Mur,grave electorate only, for v:hich the Bundaberg officer is registrar, that only in this one instance a set has been made on the electors of Queens· land ? \Vhy h·a ve there not been pro· tests and objeecions lodgcd against the apulications in other places? Is it be­call'>e his colleague, the Hon. John White, feared that if these men, 75 per < -cnt. of ·whorn I cNn lt~y n1y hand on to-morro\V, wore allowed to go on to the roll his chances of succ,oss at the next election would be nil? Simply because they did not hav<' legal assist;cnce during enrolment, and did not comply with a certain word in the sec­tion about their home, they were re­fused enrolment. The members of this party pointed out, when this wretched Bill was going through the House, that these difficultic>s would occur, and if members wanted a demonstration of the dastardly way

Elections Acts [3 JSOYE~IBER.] A·mcndmt nt Bill. 1671

in which that Act could be appliP·d, he had it vf'~terdav. ~-\ llUnlbPr of lDPu had been borla fide rC. id~nts iu t.hf· ~.Iu:::.gea,Tr cll'ctorate for 1nonth~< but because of a snwll infor~ n1ality or tt" hnicality, or ~onw (1uibblc rai·"::d by the lPg.d adYi,ers of tlw obj<.>dors, had their lLlillCS ertscd froHl the roll. It was an a' "clute >,candal. And yet the ·c are the kind of Jll('I! tile Governn10nt ,are ap11ealing to to a·<ist th• n in tho country. and whom they insult . ..:\LHJut 400 nanws \Yen~ h·;.nded in for the .annc_al revision in the :VIusgrave elec, trn·:).tP. The ::.VIini~tPr for _\griculturp, when h<' that mighty liot, got cold feet. and at onct' ::;cut so1no of his friends round to find out 1vhe:·p these 11lOD 1S ho1nr";; \vere. A.lto-. gctht L' 1C.O \vnrr:-· obj""c·hJ to, ~on1e of the u 1:,j ·~tiuns "\VCl'e withJra\Vll, a• -1 iu ~o ·H~ c·-"'.~S th · dc;·Josit was :orf<>itcd, but 100 odd names \Yei'() .,~·usud frotn the roll, and I ;,a that out of tltoS<' men :·on ~:m find at least 70 per e<'nt. W{wkin~· in the ).lu.::~FaYe to-day. There wero rn "~l h8 h Hl ht'en ru .... iding .ancl v1orking in the Musgrave electorate, in different pa: ts. f,/r : c:-tr:-:. The· --atnP c~nvr~ion·::i apply thor'C a~ q')t:J.in in conn(!Ct~:)n ·with the 11a~toval ind;~·-··1.v. If th~; Gcve:~nmc-mt ere going to carry out the Ad as they did ycsterda:. at Bundaberg·, it will be an absolute impossi­bility, a' I pointed out when the Act was going through, for thousands of these men to claim a yote. We had there one fine young fellov who had been sixtePn :vcars in Queens· Janel. and his claim presented at the October cou·t \Y·•s the first he had been 1b!e to make for a \OtP. And yet, because he had given three or four different a·ddresse•.-all in the Musgrave-·and had sta,·ed in Bundaborg for seve1;al da vs for a bit of a spoil, his claim' was refused. There are men who left their work at the Fairymoad plantation-one paid as much as 9s. 6d. to another man to work his shift-and stopped at the Court until nearly 5 o'clock. There were others who paicl their mates to work tho ('xtra shift for them, and st ·~ c·d about the court all day. These men turned up in the afternoon, and bec-ause they did not 'vant to lose two shifts they returned to Fairvnwarl. and the result was that when their n~mes were called hv tlw clerk of pettv sccsf;ion o::. or the registrar they \Yere not t,here, ancl thci" n~mc·q were erased from tho roll. I call it the most dastardly, CO VI ''.rclly conduct that could ev0r bE> inflicted on anv member of tlw communitv. I do not blame the regi:'.tmr. II0 only did his duty. but under the rotten provisions put into the Act a couple of ,.,,ar, ago "ht· registrar had no other c·om:sc open· to him. espPciC' lly with a legal adYi··~r of the objector boxinv. up these chaps bY asking tlwm whc1·'' tlwir homes w0rc? In some cases the applicants had worked for two or three months at one of the Fairy­mead wood camr:··. \Vlwn the SE'ason started son10 of thes0 mPn went to work in the Fa:ir:,.~­mC'ad J\fill. and some of them came to Bun­daberg and had a spell for a few days bf'forc thcv went out into tho other sid'-' of the :>Jusgrn.\'C electoratE'. And yet we have 100 odd of them disfranchised in the most cow­ardh· manner which it is possib:e to describe. and· the han. member in hi-, canting, hypo­critical wa.v talks about the broad franchi•m that we 'have here in Queensland. A marvellous franchise ! And so far as the Bill we, ha Ye here proposed is con­cerned. it will not make a snap of the ft!lg{ rs' differene:e in regard to enabling these men to get on to the roll. In spite of what the Home Secretary has said in regard to 1 h~ wide proYisions of the Act, it is impos-

.,iblo for some of these people to have some place which they can call their homes .. A man 'night v;ork for some months at Fatry­mead. and then go somewhere dee for a couple of months, and then put in two or three months on tho QLmaba, \Vindermore, or Pemberton plantations, and a month or two cutting for a small farmer somewhE'l'C else in tho eleciorate, and be in the one electorate all tl1P time. ThLse men have to go ,omC\\ here for \York, and yet they c~n­not get on dw r .Jll.

:\Ir. ( 'm,,E: Tiut wa' tlw object of the Act.

:\cr. BAHBER: Of coUl.·o it \'.ac, and ·,·et Uw hon. 1110 .1l.h.~ rc·ar.s up ~,nd throv;,Ts out his {~XP',ll":Jivc ch~,f<.~ on various platfonns . :;,,!~l on the J~:Jol~ of this House, saying, " ... .\_lone I did It: I am it." It is pur• hypo· critical ::.'ant .UJ- l fudg-(' to ·~alk about the n1n: \ , ... JJ(FLS franchisP ~l-e liavo here, "\vhen thing, j;l,c this can happen. "\nd then we haYP this k1wr::.-k1H.·'"'-tl, one-eyed, short­'Vinder-1, ,'-.;)n.vinPd report in the "Courier'' to-dav. I .,,·ould have liked tht· han. member to have been in Bundaberg when we had tho'e twenty or thirt.'· men satisfted to pay their mates to .do their work in order to enable them to come in six or seyen or eight miles to substantiate· their claims. They were wiped out, and my opinion is that tho hon. member would have been wiped out or dumped into the Burnett River. (Laughter.) \Vc hear the hon. memh·"r roaring like a forty-horse power buzzard. (Laughter.) I hope the hon. member, if he is going to try to improve the electoral law of Queensland, will try to put something on to the statute­book worth calling an Act, and not the misC'rable farce ·he has boomed up to-day.

Mr. ADAMSO~ (Rockhampton): I am in fayour of the amendment. Personally, I haYe no objection to compulsory enrolment or to compulsory voting. I think both in

themselves are good things, but I [7 p.m.] am of opinion that until we can

get something that the amend­ment asks for neither compulsory enrolment nor compulsor.v Yoting will seccue the object that this party believes ought to be secured for the electors of Queensland. The Home Secrt>\ary interjected that in my heart I did not be!ieye this, but I say that in my heart I do believe it. I give credit to the edcctoral <>fficers for doing thP fair thing. and I iwve ,aid to them that I should not like to see them act in any way which is out of har­mony with the law, but I have said that the Queensland law is the worst electoral law in Australia to-day, and it is because I think that the law ought to be amendE'd that I am supporting the .amP1dment. The amend­ment seeks a broader franchise. \Ve do not :-av that we want a broader franchise in the merp sense that we want more people to be able to Yote from the point of adult suffrage, but wP sav that the franchise is hedged round with such restrictions that a great number of people are not able to vote. A man must be here twelve months before he can vote. while he has only to be six months in the Commonwealth before he can vote. If he has bE>en six months in the Common­\Yealth and goes into New South Wales, he has onlv to be there three months before he can Yotc. But if he has been in the Com­monwealth six months and goes to Queens­land he must be in Queensland for twelve months and in the electorate for two months: before he is able to vote. So"!-e of these people at Bundaberg have been m

Mr. Adam~on.]

1672 Elections A.ct' [ ASSKviBL Y .] Amendment Bill.

the elector at~. wi.thin a day of two months, and th1s reYISJOn court has come round and they have to wait another two months before they cun make application to have their names put on the roll. It is because of these ridiculous restriction,, which prevent some of the best men and wealth-producers in the State from having a chance to vote, that we want a broader franchis<·. The amend­ment asks for greater faciliti£-l for enrolment. The way in which applications have to be made makes it impossible for a number of people to get on the roll. It is not a matter of ignorance, because there were in Rock· hampton some bank managers and insurance company managers, who were well educated and yet their names were not filled in pro: perly, and they were rE'jected. A number of people get so di,~usted with the useless and frivolous questions, which are altogther unnecessary, that they do not try to fill their claims in. I was talking a while ago with an intelligent man who told me of the difficulty he has. A certain friend of his answered the qnestion as to how he came to the State by saying that he came by steamer. The officials were not content with that, but had to send a policeman to ask what was the name of the steamer that he came by. These are things which are re· stricting the franchise, and making it im­poesible for a great number of people to get the vote. It is not very encouraging when the Home Secretary feels that what anybody has to say on this matter is utterly indifferent to him. He wants to be made to feel more keenly than he does that the law he passed a while ago is a rotten law and the worst law in Australia to-day. Th~ definition of " residence " is scandalous. There is no such definition of residence as will cover some of the best people, the best workers, and the best wealth-nroducers in Queensland. The leader of the Opposition tried to get a definition of " residence" as being the last place where a man had resided and where his postal address was. I hold that the postal address ought to be sufficient. If a man can prove that he has been in Queensland the twelve months which are necessary, he ought to get the right to vote wherever he may be. So far as the matter of the facilitiPs for voting are con­cerned, it seems to me that these could be made much more simple. In my opinion, all that anyone should have to ask a man or woman who v. ants to vote in Queensland is what age they are, and how long they have ~een in Queensland, and if they have been m Queensland the proper time-which I hold should only bo six months-that is the only qualification that ought to be needed for a man or woman to have their name on the roll. These useless questions, and the present definition of " residence," prevent a lot of sugar-workers and men in the \Vest from having a chance to vote at all. The sugar industry and the wool industry are our greatest wealth-producing industries, and the men who are working- in the sugar ~elds, and th~se w~o are tending the sheep, mstead of bemg disfranchised oug-ht to be afforded every means of recording their votes wh<·n the time comes around. I sav that the last Electoral Act nassed here was a great disfranchisement n{easure dish·an­chising some of the best people i~ Queens­land to-day. The amendment also seeks to do away with the property yotc. Han. mem­bers opposite are contented to give a vote to wealth, but not a vote to \vork. The party opposite stands for private enterprise,

[Mr . .Adamson.

for every man getting as much as ever he can, and the man that gets the most is the man who is most welcome to have a vote. Ho can have a preferential yote, too, which he can u e ,;o as to defeat a man like th& hon. member for Brisbane. They can use it, by tran.forence, to defeat a man who would really and truly represent the most of the people. 'l.'hese arc the things which rnake us say that t.ho arnen{huent if', one which ought to be carried. We say that work shou!Cl have a vote. The men who produce the most, the men who do in many casco the mo't thankless tasks, are the men who should have a Yote, and not the men "ho are privileged and who exploit these people. Then, vie are "sking that the men who are volunteering and going to the frc,nt should vote for the next ele.;tion be­fore they go. The next election cannot be so far away. I believe if hon. members op· posite could have the election before Christ­mas, they ''·ould have it before then, but it cannot be longer than the next May at the most, and a lot of these men who are going to the front will not be back then, and some of them may be dead. If these men are willing to die for the country, they have a right to vote as to who shall guide the destinies of the country during the next three years from the time of the election taking place. That is a concession that ought to be given to them, and there ought to be some way arranged for them to vote before they go. The Home Secretray said they did not want them to vote by proxy. Then why cannot they vote by means of an absent or postal vote? \V e want the aboli­tion of ihe post,al vote. I do not think the postal vote has been so helpful to the sick. :\Ir. Kidston, the late Premier, condemned it, and Mr. Barlow, the present leader of the Upper House, condemned it, and since 1904 there has been a see-saw backwards and forwards. The postal vote has been passed .and then repealed. . That has been done to further the interc,ts of the privileged classes. Then, I hold that there should be an e',tablishment of the absentee vote. It is the fairest vote. It means that a man must go to a polling-booth, and by going to a polling-booth personally there is not likely to be impersonation. I do not know that I should labour the matter of the amendment any further. \Ve have plenty of proof that, so far .as Rockhampton is con­cerned. it is very desirable that something should be done. I have here a report of the last revision court at Rockhampton, and there were 165 names rejected. There were twenty-eight rejected because they were not able to answer question 6, and ten because they could not answer question 10. I want to point out that some of these people were rejected because tho police who were em· ploycd to nut their names on the roll filled the forms in wrongly. There is a statement that one acting sergeant filled a number of forms in wrongly. and these men were- there· fore disfranchised. It is an unfair thing th1t men should be disfranchised because of the errors of the policeo One would think that the.,- should be able to fill forms in correctly: Like the Federal law, our elec· tara! law should make it as easy as possible for people to get on to the roll. The people of Australia do not ""ant stuffed rolls ; the politicians of Australia do not want stuffed rolls.

A GoVERN,!ENT ::\'I:E~!BER: The Liberals do not.

Elections Acts [3 ~OVE~IHER.] Antcnclmuu .Hill. 1673

:Mr. ADA:\ISO~: I give the Libera:, credit for that, too, but l believe the law they have passed is a bad law. If members on that side do want stuffed rolls, then they are to be condem•.1ed, but I would rather give them credit for being as honest as my:oelf in that respect. \V e "ant a proper electoral !a w; we want the best facilities possible to enable people to get on the roll; we want people who are on the roll to have every facility for voting, and we shall be quite content then to have compulsory voting. I shall, however, raise my voice against a la\tT which mcam the di,franchisement of the nomad'. who are among· the best wealth-producers in the State, and the existing law has the effect of disfranchising those people. The amendment is in harmony with all that we said when the Elections Bill was before the House last year. \V e are not stultifying our­selves, and we are not inconsistent in mov­ing the amendment. \Ve desire that there shall be uo privilege for one class over another, and that the property qualification shall be clone a wa v with. For those reasons I shall snpport th'e amendment.

::\Ir. THEODOHE (Chillagor): The motion of the Home Secnctary is a motion which, if carried, "-ill enable the Government to intro­duce a (\'Orrymandcring .Bill. Within the ]act e)uple of years the fNtr of the Liberals regarding their impending doom has been growing. In 1911 the feeli;,gs of the people of Queensland was tested b,- a certain refer­endum whi2h the Liberals strenuouslv op­posed, and which the Labour party' sup­ported. :, t that time there was a majority of 18,000 in favour of the Liberal attitude and against the rekrendum. In 1913 a Federal general election took place. Promi­nent Libe··al s of Queensland, including members uf the Ministry, interested them­selves in that election and toured Queens­land in favour of a policy which was opposed to that of tho Labour party, with the result that the LabO<lr vot;e predominated to a very large extent over the Liberal vok. Th0 Senate elections were carried by a majority of 22,000 over the Liberal vote. The Liberals were immediately seized with panic and be­eame afraid of their politieal existence, and they gerrymandered the electoral law. They introduced a piece of legislation which was passed last year. The Government then pro­posed eerbin alterations in the electoral law which wem not forecasted, but "hich were sprung upon the people because the Go­vernment fancied thcir doom v• os scaled. They therdore proposed to make it as diffi­cult as pos,ible fo,· Labour supp01:ters to get on the rolls and for those who were on the rolls to exereise the franchise. so that bv that means they might secnre themselves against any further adverse deci,.ion on the part of th0 el<·ctor.'. However, another Federal election took plaec this year, and it was then seen bv the Liberal' that thcv had not sufficiently secured themselves in their posi­tion, for the Labour majority on that oceas­sion was 35,000. This motion bv the Home Secret wv is the first ste-p towards a further gerrymandering of the law. I do not know any othpr way of describing the action of the Government than that of gerrymandering th€• electoral law in order to make their position more secure. They desire to prevent the Labour party coming into power. The electors 0f Queemland have spoken with no uncertnin voice in the Federal eleetion. Ordinarily the Commonwealth electors would also be State elecwrs in the distriets in which

t!1ey rc·,ide, but clw Libpral Gov~rnment are going to make it imposoihle for thc'1sands of men who are worthy citizens to g·et on the roll or to remain on the roll once they get th·:orc. It has been stated bv the Home Srcrc;,11'3- that ~he Queensland 'e!<"etoral la\v is the freest in the Commonwealth, I am ~--.ttisfied that anv ordinar\ nutn 1\ ho is in t:w full possu-sio'n of his faculties, and who knov.'s the different phas0' of the va.rio:Js electoral laws in thE Commonwealth, can eome to no other conclusion than that the Queens­land olectorH.l law is absolutelv the worst iu the Commonwealth. Our franchise is reallv not adult suffrac;e. The franchise is ex· tended to peo),ic who have certain qualif1c '1-

tions that cannot be clainwd bv the vast maj?rity of people in the State. ·No person commg to Queensland from any of the: oth"r States or tJ om overseas-from England, IrL'­land. or Scotland, or any other British do­minion-has any pos~ible ehancu of getting his name un the roll \\'ithout eighteen month"' rr· 'idence. ThP qualification cannot be said to be twelve months' residence, because no person can under any circu1nstances get his name on the roll until he has been in Queensland ··eveuteen or eighteen months. He cannot make application for enrolment until he has been her0 twelve months, and, in addition to that, he must have resided t\\'o months in e1 partieular electorate. J'.1em­bers sitting on the front Treasury bench smile with satisfaction at the prospect before them under this measure. They have a Tory electoral 1aw whieh is most unjust, and which disfranchise; their political oppon­ent''· so that the:v can s·nile indulgently at the >.·riou,ness of members of the Opposi­tion. beC'ause thcv know th0v can force the measure through 'by the aid ·of the gag and guillotine, and disfranchi--e thoucands of people in Queen,)and who are as worthy as themselves to exercise the franchise. Ron. members opposite talk about " Liberalism" and dernccrncy bc_·ing synonymous 'terms, thoul'h bv their legislation they have dis­franchised thousands of people, some of whom are among:;t the bL<st f'itizl•ns \VC have in the Statt•--n1en \Yho ha"'. E' gonP out into thf' ba":kblock~ and pioiH.>Peud and bornP the heat and b;nd·'n of the hattie in che carlv histnrv d ('ur.enshncl. 2'.1anv of those men ,:re t!lsfJ·an:'hised bccau,~ thev are domiciled at Dunvz ;f'h and Hre thu~ rf'reivlng G-oYcrn~ ment ai,l. The object of the amendment is to enable the franchise to be broadened and to give to people the ordinary right of ordinary citiwnship--to vott for a candidate for a seat in the Lee;islativc A~·embly. It is not a privilege that they claim; it is a right that cnry adult citizen in thP possession of his intelli,>;ence should 0njoy, and no man should be depriv0d of that right in the way that the present Government are now depriv­ing thousands of citizens of the franehise. If anyonD will compare thf> number of elec­tors on the Commonwealth rolls with the number on the State rolls, he will sEle the great disparity in the numbers, and will understand how many thousands of Queens­land citiz,ms are deprived of the franchiso, Tlwrc arc' tens of th'lm~nds cf pcrsom in QucensL1nd who nrc deprived of the right to votf> <'Yen though their namPs appear on the clector'll roll, beca''"e the electoral machinerv which has been devisPd or con­cocted bv a Libaal GovPrnment makes it difficult for them to f'Xercise the franchise. The Commonwealth law is based upon a broader franchise. and gives facilities to those who df'sire to vote to record their vote' when

Mr. Theodore.]

1oH Electi0ns Acts [ASSE:MBL Y.] Amendmc·nt Bill.

pollin!f-day arrives. A mo.·t sccmdalous thing Ehout thi~ g·erry1nandering proposal is the ;;ttiLlde r•f tho Governn1ent with regard to memllf•rs vf the Expeditionary Force. I can characteri'o it c s uothing aloe but a brutal attC'mpt to eli· iranchis0 : m·thy citizens of Qucf'nsla 1d. A neighbouring State, ~e,\ Zealand, has }',ho-\Yll ali e-xarn-plc of ho'Y to give tho::;c~ rnen a \ ot0, .a1.~d Yet the ·Govern­ment of Quc<"lslancl sit calmly by and r0fuse that small ri~·ht to men >·. ho arc going c ,,·a:; to fight for our country nnd for th-.- Empire. The atti!·udc• of the Home Sccrctarv with regard to this matter is not creditable to him. Referring to the possibility of these men bc·ing killed in action, tho hon. gentle­man f'.·cid that a vote might be rccordc--1 in tho < J·ning election b_,- a man who was killEd. rrhat jS llO argu1nent in favour of depriving f:oldier who arc going at\ ay frmn the country of the rig-ht to Yoto nt a parlia· mcntary election. The IIon1e Secn•tar~' snccringly said-

The HmiE SECHETARY: That is an abso­!utc-:.h untrue statempnt: I did not sneer.

:Hr. THEODORE: The hon. g·cntleman referred in the n1ost dhparau-ing way to tb{' suggc-,6on of the lw1d0r of th0 Onnosition th·,t thos·" :ncn should be givt:'n facilities for exercjsing the franchise.

The H02\IE SECRETARY: I risG to a poi·.t of order. I did not rcf<•r in a di;­par~ging or in a '"neering '\Yfiy to the matter which has been discu·.scd hy tho leader of the Opposition. }f, point of" order is that the hon. member for Chillagoe is bound to take my denial of the statement "hich he has made.

The SPE~'<KER: The hon. membE'l' !or l 'hillagoc is bound to ncccpt the denial of ~lw Uonw Sec--etary.

:.rr. THEODORE : The lcuder of the Opposition propvoed in his amendment to rruke .;uch provision as will enable the mem­bers of the Expc·ditionary Force to record their Yotcs at the coming elections. I am ashamed of the attitude of member's on that sid0 of the- Hou'c who refusE' to ;•ccept the opportunity of giYing citizens of this State who are going to fi g:ht for them the rig·ht to exercise the franchise. I mn further H.;hamed of the motiye which is actuating members opposite. The motiye artuating them is tlw fe:u that those votes mav be recorded against them. The attitude of the Gm·ernment in regard to the proposal of the leader of the Opposition in this matter of the Expeditionary Force reflects no credit on them. I havf' many friends among the mem­bers of th" Expeditionm·y Force, and I say that tlw attitude of members opposite with regard to g-iving them facilities to exercise thG franchise is discreditable to thosf' hon. membei'S. It is no encouragement at all for our young manhood of th;3 State to come

forward and volunteer as thev [7.30 p.m.] are yo]unteering now, and volun-

teering in u manner creditable to them, many of "hom have been disqualified through some slight physic,,! defect •-uch as thP loss of tf'eth, and through no fault of their own. I v0nture to say that ninc·h- out of even· hundred men who have voluntcnc·d in Que'8neland are men who under this lav: would be disfranchised, even if they remained in Queensland. Scores of these men follow nomadic occupations­lniners, shf'art:r•-.:, station hands, sugar­worker'--:vou will find scor•' and scores of

[Mr. Theodore.

such indiYi-dua.ls among the volunteers, ami the~e 1nen are being df-'pri'-"--'1..1 of their right of citizenship because they arc likely to "if'· port the La~>OUl' party. That is the only reason that can be ascribf'd to the GoYern­nwnt for treating thc,e men co b,,dly, and it ill beconws members on the other side to cons<,Lntlv refer to 1nmnbenl on this sid€' G.~ di~!o~-al. ~ Th~·y have given every ovidenc> of a l1ck o (' lo, altv to their own countrv and tn i·he Brit;s·h E1npire under pr,sent circurn­Mancc', iu treating 1-Yorthy citizens in the manne2· they arc. The electoral law in Queen· '"'Hl !wv0r ·has been -dmnocratic. There ;;·a.s :m att .. -,mpt made when the La~our party 1v1s supporti:ng the Morgan Governn1ent to hm-o den the franchise and make it demo­cr ttic. From that time om', arc!' it has b!'Pn s•·"n tl' -,t the law has not bePn working demo­craticallv, and frequent attempts haYe been !Harle b:,. thc Labour party to broaden the fntn('hj:-~~'. Xevc>l' an opportunity has ocrunPd hero but what the L.:.bour party haY<' point!'d out thP defect• of pn•-.:ent legis­l·ltion~ and adYoc·sh•d reforrn in order to winP tt'. av the disabilitie' of many ~itizl'nS so 'tlwc. ln: rnav cl.aiu1 to havC' adult' suffrage, and not the p~esent attenuated form of suf­+\·a,·p y·hi('h thC' Lib0ra.l pan:Y on -.;pypral ;,~"~"iot;s han' attempted to , still further limit. Th:s prc ... ent proposal is not brought in with anv idt'l of either giving greater faeilitiPs to 'nccple to vote, or to give faci1i­tiPs for ge>tting an expre~sion of political opinion £rom tho people of Queensland. There is onh- one motive hehind this mea· ure. and that is the recognition by the Go,·f'rnment of the fNH that the Labour party a rf' going to get a rnajority ut the next elec­tions. They recognise that the people. of QuPPnsland as a body-the people, speakmg ln·oe ~lY. th~ 'leople who -arc in full possession of their intc;llio-ence and faculties-if given an onportunitr· ~vill rPco!·'d a decision against th0 Go,·0rnnwnt There IB no doubt that that it1ca i-, generall;.r p~·pvaJent in Queen~land~ anr1 under ordina>·y mrcumstances there IS not " . hadow of hope of the Government .return­ing- to pown· nPxt y<>ar. and _they .reahse that thoroughlv. Ther0 arc candid fncnds of the GoYcrnm;nt sitting on that side. some of who'n arc in the Chamber ju't now. who hayc in no uncertain tom··,, told the lea·der of th.. GovPrnnwnt that unless something- is donp tlwY arc due to deff'at at the next State (•lPdiom. There is no doubt that hue been told to tho ''"omi·;ent members of the Cahinf't. and tl;ev are acting on that advice. Thr·re is no dot;bt that the Treasurer and others on that side who have been true .biue Tories all their lives have seen tho w:·Ihng on the wall: th<ey have seen the necessity of g·0rrvrnandPring '-Yith th€' P1Pctoral l,...w. I am anxious that the people should ha_v': a vote. hut I say the Government ar0 df'pnving­th0 people of the right to haYe a YotE>.

Mr. E. B. C. ConSER: \Ve want to s"e that the people get a Yote and see that they exer­cise it, too.

Mr THEODORE: The well-known demo­crat from Mary borough :vho stB;nds. behind this piece of gerrvmandermg lcgJs!athm---his doom is sealed. (Laug-hter.)

Mr. E. B. C. CoRSlln : You said that. be­fore the late by-election, and you were wrong-.

Mr. THEODORE: At the last election for Mar:.'borough, when the hon. member won by two votes, after a recount. ther•; were· about fifty-eight property votes transferred

Elections ActR [:5 NOVEC\IBER.] Amrndment Bill. 1675

from \Vide Bay to Maryborough, and the member for \Vide Bay kicked up a tremcn­Jous rumpus because those votes were re­moYed from his elec~orate, and since then the hon. member for \Vide BaY has been instrumental in getting some of "those votes transferred back.

:\>1r. BOOKER: Absolutely not. I have never touched the thing.

Mr. THEODORE: I exonerate the hon. member from using any influence in the matter, but I under,tand the votes hav0 bebl transferred bad' to Wide Bay. The generally acDeptcd policy throughout Australia of the Libenl part0:--wh0 thov call themselves Libcrd, Providc'lee alon0· knows-I am sure they can by no extraordinary interpretation call themseh_b Liberal. They try to explain the acceptatiOn of that term by saying that Liberalism is synonymous with democracy. The <>nfranchiscmcnt of property and disfran­chis mont of citizens is supposed to be democ­rac'y, e ·eordin5 to the Liberal idea. To sa~.~ that L1beral~""nl is s,.~nonv1nous \Yith de­nlcu· __ cy ]_; a howling fare.~." Tho ordinary Liberal partif's in the different States have IJOYPr hPsitatcd to gerry_nandf'r the Pkd.oral law ~or thc>ir mYn s(!fish purposes. and against !hr IL 1 (rc_t· of the conlnlunity-against the mt• re' ,·s of the Slate. That is what has hap· pened in South Australia, what hapllcned in \Ye>t Australia in 1910, and what is.ha.npen­ing here now. Th0ir sole reason is to di;h the Opposit~on, in orch;r that the Liberal party, whose sms are findmg thorn out-the Liberal party wh.om the elcdors, if the,- are given the opport11mty, or the people of the State if th<:'y were given an opportunity, would ~ast out-may remain "" little longer on the Treasury benches. Fair play, sportsmanlike conduct. is foreign to the Liberal party, and they _will stop at no. sort of obscure prac­tiCes m order to rctam office.

:i\~r. KE.BSELL: It is said there is gerryman­denng With the leader of your party. . Mr. THEODORE: I quite understand there IS gerrymandering going on with the Liberal loa.p-ues.

Mr. KESSELL: I said the leader of your party ; do you understand that?

:l>lr. THEODORE: The only thing I know about the hon. member is that his doom is also scaled. (Laughter.) He recognises so fully the tmth of what I am saying that he and ot.hers of the Liberal party, who also recogmse the danger to themselves have in­fluence~ the ('';'bin<;t in bringing in this gcrry­mandermg legtslatwn. He. at h'ast, <"tmwt pose as a democrat, nor can other members of the Liberal partv who have been instrumental in forcing the Government to bring in this undemocratic measure which we are now deal­ing with. They, at least, cannot now claim to be democrats, as anv claim thev ma,- have once had to be called democrats vanishes when thPY support this m~ctsure. I hope the amendment will be full:v considered. I know there is no hope of getting the support of the true blue Conservatives, the Conservative re­actionaries, or the reactio~ary Conservatives, as the member for IpswiCh often described members on that sidr> when he was sitting in opposition. It can never be said of the Conservative reactionaries sitting on that side of the Chamber that thev haw! ever given their support to true democracv, though they have often distorted the meaning of democ­racy. and have tried t,o attach to themselves a belief in democracy. They arc introducing

this measure to further disfranchise people in Queensland--to impose further difficulties on ~hen1 in tho n1a.tt~r of exorcising the franchise, m some extraordmary belief that it will fur­thor democracy. The unfortunate thing is that if it i,.. carried there v,ill be manY thous.ands of true citizens disfranchised, and we will not get a true <.xprl·o-;ion of opinion at the next c]e,•tion. HowGver, onrn beiorc the Liberal parh tried the experiment of int•>rfer­Jng t;tnd gcrryrnandcring -v, ith the election madt~ncry, and even their own supporters were w disgusted with their actions that they hurled them from power. 1'hat v, a'• in \Yes­tern Australia, and. I still h~ve enou"h faith in the people of Queensland to beli:ve that they will not swallow the tac'.ics adopted by the present Government in Queensland.

:.\lr. BOOKER (Wide Bay) : The hon. mernber ·who has ju~t rc::;:;u!ncd his seat referred to circumstances that occurred at the by-election of :l>laryborough. If the hon. member's other statement' are on the same plane with the statement he has ju·,t made then the whole of his statements are dis: c:rodited. I happen to know the circum­stances in Maryborough, and what the hon. member has said is altogether a \1 ay from the fact, so ~onsoqu~ntly I am judging the other portion of Jus statements on that basis. The hon. member titated that the hon. mem­ber for \Vide Bay did certain things follow­mg on the Ja.,t by-election for Maryborough and I interjected that the hon. member wa~ altogether wrong. I emphasise that again. I have taken up this attitude-and I would be very pleased in the interests of Queens· land if my friends opposite would take up· the same disintere"ted stand in connection with the electoral laws and the administra­tion of them. From the day that I entered public life I have never under any circum­stances whatever identified myself with the rolls or with the business of the election, and I can say from my knowledge of hon. members opposite that they have not done the same. The hon. member stated that I "-as re~ponsible for certain votes being trans· £erred back from Maryborough to Wide Bay. I give the hon. member's statement a broad denial, and, as far as those circum­stances go, it is just as well to give them the widest publicity ; at the time there were transfers from \Vide Bay to Maryborough on that occa;ion representing Liberal votes there were iust as manv transfers from \Vide Bay to Maryborough carrying with the transfers the opinions of my friends opposite. As far as I a tn conc::rnd, I h q·e neyer in any sense whatever interested myself in the;e votes being transferred back to \Vide Bay. I am quite aware that some of the Yoters have transferred their votes back, but it was at their own volition. All this discussion that I have listened to this after­noon and this evening goes for nought. If the deputy leader of the Labour party thinks that that kind of heroics is the meat and the drink that the voters of Queensland are going to take lying d<"wn. then he has a vE'ry poor opinion of the intelligence of the people; and so has the leader of th0 Op­position. He often states the same kind of piffie. If those hon. members believe that the people of Queensland are going to be fcil ,,·ith that kind of piffie their opinion of the intelligence of the people of Queensland is pretty low. Ron. members opposite pose as the representatives of the great body of the workers of Queensland.

OPPOSITION ME:Il:BERS: Hear, hear!

Mr. Booker.J

1673 Elcc:ion:: Acts jASSE::'IIBL Y.l Amendment Bill

:Yir. BOOKER: I .av quite openly that thPre are at len.:-;t ~0 p( l· CLllt. of th • pea plf• of Qt:PensL~:nd v:ho are workers-brain workers and m>·>cular workers. Could 20 per c•·nt. of the ]JCoplo of Que om land return th· . gr,,ut Liberal party'? J:\o. \Yo get our maJOJTty frorn the gr,-at nlas-~ of the indus trial ork·cn of tho Sbte. I will q·.wte my own c.•s0. I r· prc•·cnt the great bod·; of industrial worhrs in and about :vl:ary­borou!J·h. some 3,000 or 4,000 of them. Could I take m v sbnd hero to-da v if it was nut for the conlld<'.Jco ctnd wpport of the industrial ":'orkers of the 'Wide Bay district-more par­hcularly ;;bout the citv of Man borou~h? ~o. 'i'h<erd:Jrc, I sa} th~t the peoj)le of that great rl.1stnct have as rnuch f'onfidcnc? in my deter ninatio:1 to giF chPm a fair d< a! in connection 1xith electoral reform as in that of the leader of the Oppo,•ition. ThPv have just as n1uc~ confidenc"; in rr.3 to dO the rig·ht thing when this measure is dis­cussed in its proper place; and at the prop_,r time, as in the ho~1. member. Although I am _not altogdher m fa:vour of the Bill, as outlmed by the . Home Secretary, when the tnne comes I \YI!l dJS('U'·S it and I will act accordingly. ='Jevertheless. theo,e tactics are what spoil the public life of Queensland This _is not th<> time, on this amendment, to questwn the honesty of purpose of the Go­evrnmcnt, or the dishonesty of mv friends opposite. \Ye are dealing with a bi'l" issne. IV e should let the iss2e come to discussion, speak upon the sec·Jnd reading. and d_al with the details of the Bill in Committee.

:Y1r. FOLEY (Jfundingburra): I was going to srty that if anv evidcnpp were required that this is not a desirable Bill, the fact that so rnnnv 'Dr1nbers on the other sid0 rernain silent, has supplied it. :'-i"ot one member has got up on that side 0ither to l.upport the Home. Sc-~1·etary in th~ measure hE' proposb to brmg forward or to speak ag <ilbt the amPndmcnt proposC'd by the leader of the Opposition. And I do· not think that the hon. member for \YidD Bav would have got up had it :wt been for the ·fact that the hon. n1omhr-r fot Chillagoe Inention('d his nan1r< in connection with the pronertv vote at the l\.laryborough by-dection. I am going to sav that I do_ not agree with the Bill as proposed by the liome Secretary. I v.ould rather fU]lport the amendmer::t suggested by the leader. of tho Opposition, and my reasons for domg so are the,e : It has been pointed out by members on this side that not­withstanding that rlC>ctors might bP 'struck off the roll because they have shifted from one elc~to,.atc h another, and had to wait two m·•nths to get thPir names on the elcr. toratc to which thev have removed the hon llKmlJ<>r .. for :\l.atyborough has i~terjected ee,·er 'l tunes t1us afternoon that thev would remain on tho first electoral roll until their name, became rc~ristered on the new. The hon. member cvidentlv loses sio-ht of the fa<;t. that the _amendm'cnt propo~ed b:v the :Yitnster provides for bi-monthlv revision courts-that is to say, that eyerv two months rertain nantes of peop l (' "'~ho have roinoycd from tlw distrid "auld be struck off the roll n.s haYing left. instead of their be in~ struck off at the annual revision. and th~ result would be that thousand•, of workers who. through no fau:t of their own, have to shift about-possibly. as the hon. mem­ber for Fortitude Vallcv said this aft<>r­noon, from one· side ;f the street to another-would los-e their voth. I live in a street of ,-hich on<> side is in Paddino-tor, and the e-ther in Brisbane, and if I shifted

fi11r. Booker.

from P·,dclington to Brisl.:ane, and the hi­n!unthly rourt eanH on. n1y name \vould be struck off the ror as having left Padding­tun. and I r:ould not claim to have mv name placed on iho Brisbane roll until I ha"d lived then' for t" o months, and then it might be another four months before I could get it on the new roll. There will be thousands of persons in Queensland who, through no fault of their own, will lose their vote when an election com-es on, because of those circuin­stanct~s. I 1vas 0xpccting tho Government to hav<' introduced this bi-monthlY revision court in the last amending Bill. Apparently, however, the Home St'crctary did not see the lY'nefit of it. lie has '.eon since that men can still retain their vote', with th-' annual rcvision C'ourt~ and so he is introducing the bi-monthly court.

::\1r. E. 13. C. CoR~ER: You arc absolutely wrong.

Mr. FOLEY: I am abwlutcly right. The Home Secretary, in describing the amend· ment,. has tolrl u· distinctlv that there is to be a bi-1nonthly revision cOurt. v;hich 1neans that the court will have power to strike off the name of a?lvbodv who has removed from the district. 'l'hey 'vill simply say that they haYe rea,on to believe that the electDr has left the district and has loot his qualification. He \vill have to a it two months before he can claim in tho new electorate, and four months before iw can be registered, which means t-hat he will be six months in Queens­land without a vote, althouc;h he has lived here for nvent;· years. Of course, the Hon. the HDme f\ccrehrv savs he believes in everv­onP gf,Hini a vot~~. ar~d vet ho is provid-in~g mc•ans to strike thousands off the roll. He 0:mnot help it if he introduces this provision.

The Ho"IE SECRETARY: Tha.t i·, where you are making a n~istake. IIe 1nay be adver­tis0d as lc.ft. but that cannot be confirmed until the following bi-monthly court.

:Hr. FOf,EY: lie gPts notice that hP bas left, and he 1-(0es i.u prove that he is in {'nothor r•lectorate.

The HO.IfE SECRET\RY: Then he will be compelled to put in an applic>ttion for a vote in that electorate.

:VIr. FOLEY: After two months. I want to have this thing clearly laid down.

The Ho:;m SECRETARY : So you will-on the second reading.

:\h. FOLEY: Now is the time, before power is given to introduc" the Bill. The last aJ,ending Bill provided that a man mu·t ]i,·e in an electorate for two months br>forc hu can ciaim to h3' ~ his name J .• lacocl on the roll. Consequently. if he left ,, month ago. and the bi-monthly court chould sit and one of the agents reports that he has left that electorate and gone into another. a notice is immcdiatelv sent out that, v·e will sa.0·, John Smith has left the Paddington cledorate, and has gone to Toombul.

The Ho11E SECRETARY: Two months must <:'lapse. You have not seC'n the Bill.

Mr. FOLEY: That was the hon. member's explanation of the Bill.

The Hmm SECRETARY: I have not explained it. I have told YOU he cannot be knocked off at that court. He must wait until the succeeding court.

Mr. FOLEY: Then he has to remain two months before he can be replaced, and

Election8 Acts [:3 ~OYEMBER.) Amendm(nt Bill. lG/7

anot'1cr two months to see if there is any objection. So that there will be six months before he can get a vote.

The HO:IIE SECRET.\RY: You are abuolntely \\Tong. You have not seen the Bill.

:Mr. FOLEY: Then the Home Secretary proposes to bring in compulsory enrolment. The whole thing seems ridiculou on the face of it because in the first plac<1 ho ctrikec off 'thousands of people, and in the r,cxt place he t:1lks about fining them because the' are not on the roll-and all the time he 'is the per' on who is going to strike them c.ff the roll. It seems to be panic lcgisllltion. The Government have got such a fright over the recent elections, and the vote the Labour party received from the people of Queens­land, that they arc afraid o< what will ha ppcu at the noxt election.

The Ho:~IE SEC1,lETARY: Are the 'Ye,.tern Auc.tralian elcccions an indication of that?

:VIr. FOLEY: The \)7 estern Australian Go­\·crnnlt>nt aro goi11g to rule. So it docs not mattN whether they have a majority of one or ten.

:'vir. FIHELLY: ,J oc Cook had a majority of one.

:1.Lr. FOLEY: And that was the Speaker, and lw c.mw down from his seat every time th£".- tcnk o vot·"· I do not boli_ ve you would l~O ~ th- t. 11r. s-)('l.kf'l'. I think You would h · \ c teo much ;:wnlinC'ss to do it. The do­nla.nd of Au~tralia is for de_{lOC't'abic legi::.­Lltion~lc_,;i~lation sueh as wiH nicet ·with the ,·ic,-:, < t th(' mujor~t: of the- p-;.~oplt:; but in~tPnd of pro:~o:;ing such leg-~"lat~on tho Qu(~('n.:;L,n<l G-over;unent, ·who cl iill to be the 1nc~t dcn1ocratic in A .. u~:tralia. or in the world, are l)utting EYl'l'\- 0l ,,tu~ 1 e tlu y can in tho ''"'-•--V .L ( f a pcrsor; getting on the roll~ and, wlH :1 they gut. o:-t ;,he rolL in th0 '' :.t.".· of his remaining there. Fir,;. of alL they haYc got thP 1nost ridiculowJ que~tions to a11s1Yer it is po~sible to conceive. I told tho Homo SccrP­tary "-hen he wa~ moving thf' la;:;t auwnding Bill thrt it would be :very dofficult to get ladic' tu ;lw;r naoncs on th0 roll "·ho:1 th-y had ;vo their ace., and tlw places whcro theY v.-ot, born. The hon. nH!·_nber knP\V that· as well as I did, ard lv~ thouhl:t that a large 12Un1b:-r of '"·o;nC'n would be rn·eyent· d frorn putting their nanws on the ro:l" llut it did not h;rn uut as he ex­ported, with the result that the last Labour voto was the largr 't tho partv ha:vo recci.-ed in QueeJBla.nC. _And tho next Labour yoV:\ nob< ithstanding a11 !heqe dod6 ;:_,q, will bu a greater vidor.'· for them than e ,·er. I am certain that tho people of Quecnsbnd "·ill feel so disgu·tcd at tl-te tactir:s of tho Go.-crn­nu~nt in cndea;;curing to saF"' their skins for another three years, that enm their sup­porters who haYc voted for them for many years, and who felt that they cannot votc> for the Labour party, will feel that they will ha vc to .-ote on this occasion for tho Labour party.

Tlw Ho:~m SE~RETARY: Let us get to the Bill.

Mr. FOLEY: Before it goes through I want to enter my protest against the action of the GoYernrnent-l do not blame the Horne Secretary personally-for introducing such a measure, as this. 'The adoption of the amend­ment would in some degree reclaim the good

n:1me of the Government, and yet [8 p.m.] the Home Secretary refuses to ac­

cept it. I have not heard one member opposite get up to support the Home

Secretary in regard to the Bill, or in rdusing the amendment. I should certainlY defend my position and show reasons why): suppor­ted the amendment:· If any evidence is wanted to show that this is an unpopular measure, it is shown by the fact that hon. members opposite aro not game to get up and defend the Government. I am going to op­pose the Bill at every stage, because I think 1t is only a dodge on the part of the Govern­ment--

The HOM:E SECRETARY: To put the Labour party into power?

i\Ir. FOLEY: 'l'o make it impossible for half of the \vorltel s in Queensland to get their vote's.

: .. lr. LARCOMBE (Keppel): I cannot under­stactd the atritudc of the Home Se~rctary in attem)Jting to push the amendment thr0ugh before members have had an oppor~unit~· of discussing it. It is certainly in harmony with their practice of pushing measures through this Chamb~r v-ith a brutal m'ljority behind fiH u. Hon. memLers opposit8 are afraid to get up and express their opinion''· on the measure. It is public property that hon. members are not unanimous on the measure which has been outlined bv the Home Score-tan this afternoon. ·

=·Ir. TROcT: vVe have not seen the Bill yet.

nr. LARCO::VIBE : Tho hon. member has not seen the Bill; he has heard it discussed in caucus, and yet he is not prepared to ... ivc• the House the benefit of his knowledge of the measure. The Home Secroturv has '' atr·d that this i·'· not the time to question dw honest" oi the Government in introducing t l1i_; I: ill. To my mind, it is the time that we should question that honc·:ty and sincerity,

""'' insincerity is exuding from every line the nH·;lsure>.. The Government are abso­

lutely insincere in claiming th:rt thov are introducing this measure in the interests of the people of tho State.

l\lr. MACROSSAN: That is a very harsh judgment.

:\Ir. LARCOMBE: I think that tlw hon. member will admit that the Government are not sincere in introducing elections after elections Acts in the int0rests of the State. The onlv reasonable deduction hon. members can dravv is that ::'vlinisters are endeavouring to prolong their political existence-and in so doing they are really prostituting tho functions of Parliament-by erecting, as it were, arti­flr·ial barriers around them; but, notwith­staHcling ih·o-'o tactics, I am sati~fied that the flood of public opinion will overrun any arti­ficial barriers that the Home Secretary and

; ' ' olleag-ues may erect, and that the result of that flood of public opinion will be re­flected at the next State election. and 1'!10 leader of th<> Opposition will be or·cupying the po.ition uf Premier nf QtPPnshncl.

Ticnt.-Colonel R<~.NKIN: 'Why all these tears?

:',Ir. LARCOMBE: They are not tears; i-ll''\~ are an cxprc~sion of righteous indigna­~io,'; on the part of mQmher•· of the Opposi­tion at the time of Parliaiti'e11t being taken up on mea,..urec of this nature, when it could be more profitably spent i" considering legisla­iiun for the stimulation of the primary and f"Uncb.ry industriPs of the State. (Hrar, he:1r !) There are many questions of very great n•1blic importance that we should be· discussing this srs~ion, and \Ve are ignoring them just to enabln the Government to attempt to pro­long their existence. That is the object, but

"1fr. Larcombe.]

1678 Eler:tions Act>.· [ASSE:\IBLY.] Amendmrr!t Bill.

,t will undoubtedlv be unsuccessful. The onl_v justifiration for the introduction of a mc·asure of this nature is for public good.

GovEmnrENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

::\1r. LAHCO.C\IDE: And that reason is lack­iEg. It this mea:Jure is now necessary, surely it \Yas ncccsury in 1913 ! There has been no devdopmeut since the last Elections Acts Amendment Bill was considered by the As­sembly to justify an amending measure. The app.•.rent justification is that che vote which has been ca•·>t for Labour during the last Federai elections indio.c1ted that unless some measure of this nature is passed by the c~s-

mbl:;, and placed in operation bciore ti1e Eext Stccte elections ocur, there will be a serious diminution in the number of Liberals, aad an increaee in the number of Labour members.

)lr. E. B. 8. CORSER : You say this Bill 1s g,Jing to do that?

}lr. LARCOMBE: I arn dealing witb the D~>j- cc of the meawr8 that the Government hnw b1·ought down. -I do not say that that object will be achien·d. It will be anoth8r illustrction of the bt>st lai·d •;chemcs g-oing a .tlJ.Y. The rL-.ult will be cntireh- different frcn1 \d1at is i:ntr_•udec1. The ex-CoOk GoYern­nwet took char:;·e of ti1e Federal rDlls for t•.•, p]ve months, and pretPnded to purify those rolk The-' lixc•cl thc:H up; thPy said "Kow \Ve have a 1najority at our (Y)tllll1and as the re-ult of our electoral adn1inistration." But d1at oc .u-red? The;~· not only chd nDt get a majority, but they did not hold their own; -and the Labour party came back to the l'{ttional Parlia1nent st:-ongL'r than they ever did l-efor~. I believe thn". history will repeat itself.

:1Ir. E. B. C. l.)RSER: Like it did in \Yp-,.tern Australia?

1Ir. L~\RC011BE: The Labour Govern­ment have 'till a I< :tel in \Yestcl'n Auetralia, and the three ocats that have to Le zkcid<>d

held at the la3t election bv the Liberal Gtlvr'' nmut. I am not -.atiefrod that the clccLws thert' ha.vo changed their opinion. If vou take into consideration the whole of t}H'~ ci: cU!l!St.-ancc~::., \Vt~ can understand a slight dr,crr'a :.e in Labour in \V p•.tern Austrafia. They haYP e::qwrif';1cod the \YOrst drought known in the history of that 0\tatc, and that has ]pd to a ~rcat ·dc>.;d cf dislcc:.tion of trad., anJ iuduBh".', and to the los.s of a numb(~r of ( itizQns fr'-'rn \'\' r-.;tt'rn ~\ustralia. T;1ke a Stat~" v:hl~re the Cv~lditions ar(~ norrnal. Take Xe~·· Sonth \Yal·. ;;;, \Yhat po~ition \YC're"'the~: in n .c_,,Y n1onths bac!\: '? Tho La1lour pa~·tv

·;·c· : uk in ~c\Y South \Yale· nln{'h "1 ~ JPr2.·~'l' than the.'· \Yf'·'C prey]( u~ly, indicat~

t ha~. noh· itlr-tanding the campaign of • -~ 11L .. tirn and ahnPJ tha 1

- theY "sere l ' tln·o'J~h H1e Pre">- aad through

r·l_ .:LlP1·J th.-t the Ln' our party \Vcre

vnn'k, thP c•lei;tO:-'S of ::\; South tho Labou- Govcrmnrnt with

!L'<jorlty. Th(•ir ~o-cnll0d C 1.::-

~\·asr::,ncr, \YD.S nnthing lmf. justifLl--lc ex}1Cn­

{'it 'F'. It 1 \·a~, oulv thn rc~u~t of the crin1in~l J:('·::1igc•--:ce of thr Liberal Govcrnmr>nt during tlu•ir t~n'ce ·;cnr::-' period. fGoverntnont lang~!t· ·.1 Tl)-, Li}·nr<Il party ia :'\ow Sonth \'i'-. 1 ••• rlu-i-l'T tlw Jll'e··iou• tbr{'{· years they '.';rrc' in o:ffice na,-:.~ccl rail1.·i'UV ,_,.fh-n· raihv,\V ',':],'·], Jhr"' m•v0r consb·ucted: nncl tho 1' hof<' 1:-arrl n of flndinp: the mone~· for the con~ str11clion of those line" was thro·,· ·n upon the

[Jf r. Larcombe.

Holman and =ticGowen Adminiotr:•tiun. The Holman Government in ='Jew South \Vales are on1ploying 21,000 n1en out of loan money.

:\h. KESSELL: Three dnys a week !

:\lr. LARCOMBE: Ho,, many "re the Quccnslnnd Government <'mploying·. 1: et the hon. momJers opposite inquire 1:hat is being done in Xew South \:Vales by a Labour Adn:Iinistration? There are plenty of wealth~ pn~duc;:>.rs or \Yorkers in this State v:ho are unable to obtain one day a Vi cck. The Hotne SrcretarY e. n cl his colleagues -,·.ere going to l'('L'C'T tO "their Jrf'::tt ~=r~henw to rnlive the Ull·

emp~o:n-l1, but \vhcrn is it: It has not seen the lighl- of day. Th,'ro aro hundreds of n;en "a!',ing- about Cen~ral Queensland lookmg for the "hcro;·;ithal to J.-~ep body -and soul together.

,:\1r. E. B. C. CoRSER: Th0y are ~oming from Kow South \Vales.

:'>Ir. L~'I.RCO;y1BE : That interjection does not harnlOilisc ,,,~ith tho statement I have mode" that that Government have employed durin'l' the last three months 21,000 men out of loan fund. It i' quito ap-o:·ront that han. mcrnbers opposite are I!ot fully seized witit the trH<' condition of affair,. in \Ve~tc!·n Aus~ tralia and Xew South Wal<-,, They get tboir opinion frotn thL' •· Courier." and it is only natural that tho ''Courier" d10uld garble .,:nd di,tort the true <~audition of things in tho-;• Str.t, '- I am suq1riJed that the Home Secretarv cannot see the fino distinction I am atte;:npting to work up. (Laughter.) _I contend that the Home Secrotar~" .and b1s collen~uos <1re not introducing this moas1_ue in tlw" jlUb!ic intcre.;t 'mt for r<-Fons wbrch \voukl not iustifv th~ 1-Ious~' in passing it, unLll ('O~'tai"n p1:eliminary stag'CS are gone thronp:h. Thos.c prelin1inar:v st _:2.'f\~ are out­lin 'd in the amendment, wbic1r _in the !Jrst n1acC' ask~ fa:· a broader francln~~?- It Is a ~equost \Yhich is justified bv on Elections APt t:,-c1ay. Ko C!llf' c·lll prnv.' t!lf!.t \\'·' have n, ln'ond franchi~f' by comparison with :other Ekctoral Acts in other parts of Austr .•. ha. I C'hall ·ng0 hon. Jncnlbcrs to. point to one ~t~1~e in An traJia where .thf'_re ts such a restn;t~- d fr.lJ:<'hi" ·as there 1s m Queen·:;! and. \'1/ hat Skrt.' in Australia. except nuopn 1and, are "~I~~ino- for a hvPlvP monthl3' qua1ificatioH'1

A.h~\;)o]~tclv nonC': and yet thi;:; p!ovision .was rcinscrtctl or p0rpetuatcd in our El0 cti01.1S

.A.ct afrcr thc'~c C'ha!~g-cs hrd tJ.krn p1a.ce In oth:r SLto.,, and afi 'r th )(· hod bE· on a chaiL"E' of l)uhlic opinion in r"':: 1 rd to Go~ YCr1:J;1C. '-1s (~nring; t11f~ last ff'~': .\'ear~ .. Le~. us tak'' the C'-1c· ;oral divis~on rm-:.lldlcabon. IIP· ('. 0 ~;olin 1':'!' nn(l of a nal'l'O'-:· Pr r-ar.:,_ h: 1>. T}lf' -t:ry lu·r(' 1a--t f.:('-SlOTl

p~l ~rd t~ll'' 11 h ;} nlf'' ·1 . ,~;iih 1h" ~upp--'r! (,f thPir c -'l('Hg:v-.., r qu;ring ~~ hY.' nH;·r~·}p. ('kc~orq,1 di,-i~if'n rpwliflcn~ion. !;1 n1~1st of t}lC' od1er f\tat,;;; :--ll tl1{l; j.;: f

10' 1rC 1 l',J one

ntrmth. '.rh;rh ]:..; q~::;i~· :1«l'~ '. A. ('n

rno~t:1 qua1lfkation pr0vrnt ovcrlan-ninrr aDd dn•)11cntion. T+ is ,J] t.hat ifi TIPC0S-

~ar~: to. en o 1)1f,' t-h,, f-qral offif'nr t~~ <'ar1·y n~1 t thr~r wcr 1·:- """~11( irus1v and eff, ... ctiveh-. In or1.liP;:' ,yjth this quc~,t;(m Wf' n1n'-t ta_k0 into ron,.,:rJe.-._,tion th(' n t~'_Uf?- of th"' indnstr1- s of Qu< n;- land. \Y~· tYlu~t; l:~'<'o,7.n: ·' thnt f-1 .. r:v n~· 0 of an {•SPl"lhnlJv n1 P-1'mli'·-'nt n8_tu.c. Th'"'rP j pr ·.c1-~aJ1y no 1··rQ'f' iPdustry in tlw SH·_tc tl1at off('r" 0.n,- <1\'g-rc~~ pf .nc:~rraPnncy to trnplo7.Pf'~. Tn thP ]J[l t·wal ITFtn~··r:'i-T the ~hr·arcrs havP to lTIOYP ahont fro:Yl plnf'e to place according to the sea:,on. The same

Elctions Acts [:3 NovE:.IBER.] _tmendn" nt Bill. Hi7\J

thing happens in tho 1nining industry, 1ninc::: having to close down on account of shortage of >Yarer or snortagc oi capital. Similar con­ditions alco prevail in the sugar industry. All t!1e•-e indust.rif's require men to move abou~ trmn placr; to place according to the natLti'G of tiw sea ,•)n, and the men who thus n10\~e about are hone6t, reputable wea1th­prodtL n. Then, "·hy deprive• them of th~ frnnchi'e? vYll\ ask them to remain tYvo moPths in a particular electorate before the'· -can qualify to become ,•nrolled, and then wait another two months until their claim is dealt Yvith bv the revision court? Bv that time it may be necessary for thr·m to n1ove on again, an-l the-y •;·ill lose the right to vote. I main­tain that tlw:v should have their right of -citizPnship. no matter where they happen to be• on polling-day. a• long as th<>:v perform the necc· '-, cy conditions of residence. I think I haYe shoYvn that in the majority of ca:,, p,, th0 ll1C'n I huv0 refprrcd to ar(' wea1th­producns and honest, 1·eputable citizens, and that thcv me fairlv entitlr-d to the franchise aft-er on~e rnonth's" rr'-;idence. The questions that «re put to a person applying for enrol­ment preclude a large numbe,· of men from Dhtaining enrolment. N'ot onlv are the que<~ tions exacting in their nature, 'but the replies required are also unnecessary.

Mr. MACARTNEY: vVhat are vou stonewall· ing your O"\Yn an1end1nent for?"

}lr. LARCO::YlBE: I know that the hon. member for Toowong is waiting anxiously to lif tf'n to a distinguished member of the Queensland bar.

The SPEAKER : Order !

Mr. LARCO::YIBE: Tho questions put to persono se<'king enrolment are of such a n;'<hue as to annul the franchise, and that is a sufficient reason for carrying the amend­ment. \Vhy should any elector be asked to answer Pll the que"tions now outlined on tlw application forms?

}Jr. E. D. C. CoRSER: What about the questions that have to be answ~red by old­age pensioners?

~.Ir. LARCO:YIBE: There are many ques­tions put to applicants for old-age pensions that I would wipe out, because they are un­nece-sary. But I am referring now to the quc·,tions which are put to applicants for enrolment under the .\ct passed by the Government last year. _\ person seeking enrolment has to state the Year, the month, and the day on whil'h he or -she was born.

The SPEAKER : Order ! The quPstions thP han. member is referring to hardly relate to the anwndmcnt.

:\Jr. LARCO:\IBE: It is essential to refer to them.

The SPE.-\.KER: I quite\ admit that it may be eesential to refe-r to the questiono, and the han. mPmber will be perfeqtly in order in making .a general reference to them, but to go into the details of those questions will be di,tinctly out of order.

::Y1r. LARCO:YIBE: Still, in passing, I should like to refer to one of the questions, and that is the question requiring a person to ·tat0 the year, the month and the day on which he was born. That is an imper­tinent, inquisitorial, offc•nsive, and absolutelv unnecesenr.v question. As long as the ap­plicant ~, atcs. he is twPnty-onc years of age

and has heen ln the State twelve 1nonths, tlmt is all that should be nece.-;arv. Thoro is another [ll'OYision in the an1cndment atternpti.11g to abo1i~h tho property franchise. That is a reasonaolc and absolutely ncCC"''· 'ary proposal, and one that is in harmony with the trend oi govr·rnmcnt in Australil1 to-clav. This is the onlv Stat<', I believe. \vhicll rcco:~ni,,,p~ a propo1:ty qualifi<-J.tion. It is a relic of the old da '\ .,, a reliC' of class pri­YilL'gc and ;nunopoly. ~ \V c kllO\V that han. ml·:nbers {'llPO':,ite havt ulv. a\ s '·toad for cla:- ~ priYilcge aud fer clas>J ruo'uupoly~~, ,•on­trolling ille rnac-hin£>ry uf govcrnnHmt by a fL\'-· woalthv indiYidnab. I haYo no desire to cast nn:.·~ P<I_Wri:iion \Vht:.h VPr on 1a <. itiz of Qur.~n;:o;l.lnd '"·ho rn ,:y arnas-: a eonsiclt J

sum of mo .. ey, lut I ccmtond t 11at th,,: not make him :t hetb ,· c1tizen or a better rnan n1en-.:ally o_:_· rnorally than the avt.:ragt? '-"orkl'r, :.nd that in atb.)nipting to p!~rpotuaie t~re PXi_t:ng condition of thinv,s the Govern­n1cnt are :. ('ting in dPilance of the opinion of the people of th" State exprc,sed time ancl ag~lin. The rea30t1 that han. rnernber;;- on the other sich' arc i11 such strong nunrbers is b."''ause lhey haYc gerrymandered the elec· hans.

GoYFn;.;~mxT ''dEMBERS: No.

.1Ir. LARUOMBE: I will provo that asser­tion. If we had one-vote-one-value in force in Quecmland to-day, then on the Yoting at the la~t election thnre would be thirty-three members on this side of the Chamber. But the Go 1·ernment ha Ye so rigged affairs that though· their :·.c~pportcrs "rrc returned by small majorities and Labour members by majorities of lmJ.dreds they haYe an over­whelming preponderance on th•,t side of the UhtLmber. I know that on the votes cast at the last election members opposite would be entitled to a majority, but they would not be entitled to the large majority they nnw possess. Another propo,al in the amend­ment is that facilitic-s to record their votes should be given to members of the ExpPdi­twnarv , 'orrc·. and that is t:,n Qrninent.lv r('asor{able prorJOsition. Dy no sound pretext or reason can hon. members opposite prove that those men should be cknrived of the excrciscl of thr'ir undoubted right of citizen­ship just because the call of their country demand, that they should be in some other part of "\ti'tralia or some other part of the '' orlcl. There should be a provision inserted in the Bill to enable thom soldiers 1-J ca"t. their Yot"s before leaving Queens­!. nd. Th<'y could be allowed to c:ut their \"OtPs for cithpr Labour or Lib ral party without specifying an-' indivi-dnal candid;•,te. In o+lwr parts of th~ -,,orld the basis of Yoting iJ part,. and I see no n"ason why that principle' should not be intr~c!uced into Queensland. Tho rehll'ning officers and pre-­siding of!iccr should be permitted to put curtain qnc 'lions to electors, and then to a1lo~' .j.ht,·1r to 'dte +·;r party ;}' v dl as for in eli' iduals. :\I any persons who go into a nollin~·-booth ca t their· Yates without know­ing oxactlv how they do cast them. They ha,-e the nan''S of the car;cFdatc·' read out to them, but thev have no ide-c of the per­h·:Jnn,-1 of the candidatAS, and how are they to cJ_j,,'"iminate between them? Frequently in attempting- to cast their vote in accord­ance with their political sympathies ihey cast them in the opposite direction. The "' 'cnrlnwnt further suggests that the postal y-ah ohou ld be abolished. I have previously. in common with other members on thi~

111 r. Larcombe.l

1680 Election8 Art8 [ASSEiYlBLY.] Amendment Bill.

r,idc oi the House, expressed the opmwn that the postal vote was more an instrument of corruption and malpractice than a con­venircnce to the electors of the State. That h'" been proved by experience in Queens· lrrnd and by experience in the Federal arena. ThC> general prin<'iple is bad, and all the evichnce that has been adduced by police Inagistrat,;s, returning officers, and others hw shown that the postal vote is a means of corruption and malpractice. It has been u ·ed in Bri,bane, Charters Towers, and other places to return Government suppor­ter, for seats which were previously won by Labour candidates. Members opposite have the money. thPy have the purse, and they can work the dodge, but members on this side of the House have a repugnance to any­think of that nature. The members on this side of the House desire honestly and sin­cerelv to eliminate from the Elections Act .an~·thing that tends to bring about bribery, corruption, and malpractice. In speaking in this way I do so on the authority of the Hon. !\. H. Barlow and the Han. Mr. Ha\-;-thorn, vrho \Ya:-:; at one time a momber of the Kidston Administration. Dr. Kid-on, cx­Frc>mi~r ,·,f the· State. and other 1uthoritics, wh0 have heq ~PYJtlv dPnonnccd thc·•.e provi­siolls and eliminated them from the Elections Act. as it then stood, but this Government-

in their wi~dom. I was going to f8.30 p.m.] sa:-·-in a spirit of chicanery

came along and reintroduced thos'1 provicions, bee a usc they saw there was an opnortunity of artificially buttmssing their nosition. The han. member for \Vind­sor aslrcd if I am in favour of this principle? I am in favonr of a modified application of it. I 1vonld not opno~e a modified .applica­tion of it when<b; the sick and infirm could record their <·otes: It is a reasonable request to ask that those men and women who can­not go to the polling-booths through sick­ness, or through some other can'<', should be extended the privilege of voting by post, bnt the Gm·crurnent are not prepared to re~trict the postal voting provi -ions of the "\ct in that wav. If their intention i,,. to prm-ide for those to ·hom I have refened -and th2y have previously stated that this is their only intc<ntion-why cannot they agree to a restriction of the nostal vote? They wil! not agree to that. Thev even at­tempt<'d by means of th0 Lcgislati~·e Council last YC'ar to broaden the postal vot'1 pro­visions to enable jmtices of the peace to again witne--s these cbims. and the " other place," Conservative as it may be, felt it repu;mant to them personally, and refused to pa" those provisions at the b hcst of the Government. I heartily express my inten­tion to sup~1ort the amendnwnt, hut at the eamc time I trust if it is defe~ted that the Home s, cretarv will agree to some amcnd­m· nts in tlw Bill. For instancr,, if he is I!Oin<; to make voting compuhory. are the GoYNnmed going to extend the time for closing the booths, or are they going to compel the electors to go to the booths within the time at present snecified? If they do there will be thousands and thou­~an.ds of electors in this State subject to a penalty after the elections. It seems to me that this measure is another splintering of the Liberal pl1.tform; it stands for com­pulsion. It is compelling the electors of Queemland to record their votes, and to record them in favour of the Liberal Ad­ministration. We are told that the Liberal

[Mr. Larcombe.

party generally stood for the principle of liberty and absolute freedom, and the spirit of compulsion was repugnant to their ideals and -to their policy ; but this measure is based upon compulsion. We find that the Bill, as outlined by the Home Secretary, contains provisions of a compulsory nature that are not exceeded in any platform or in any policy in this or in any other State in Australia. It is the last thing in com­pulsion on the part of the Government, and it is not in the interests of the State but in the interests of a particular party. I fully believe that the Liberal elector» of Queens­land will record their proteot against the per· niciouo principle underlying the me:.sure in­troduc<>d hy the Hom< SPcrctary, and I believe there will he a strong protest yote against the Home Secrebry and his colleagues when the elections come round. I firmly believe that after the next State elections the Labour party will have an opportunity of modifying this most iniquitous measure tJ:at the Home Secretary and his colleagues m­tend to force through this Assembly by means of a brutal majority.

Mr. McCORMACK (Cairns) : I do not intend to detain the House m,_ore than a few minutes, as I notice how anxiously han. mem­bers appear to be waiting for this address of counsel, which only happens onc11 in forty ,-cars. I would not ha ye spoken at all but for a remark made by the Home Secretary during his speech. The han. gertka1an said, when speaking on the question of enrolment at Bundaberg, or the cases that came before the E-lectoral court at Bundabcrg, that ''It was not right that the workers should be claimed to be enrolled if they were in the district merely for temporary purpo•Bs, either for pleaqure or business. Even if they 1verc war king there they were only there temporarily." 'Vhen the Elec·tions Act was l·eforc the House in 1913 thP han. member f0r :Yiundingburr.a moved an amendment providing th.·;t the nomadic population would not be precluded from making applications for the franchise. The nmcndmcnt read as. follows:-

" And this definition shall be so con­strued as to include temporary residence bv casual or nomaclic or other workers ";ho are engaged or waiting- to be en­g-aged in occupations within the district."

The Home Secretarv, in speaking on this a1nendment, as reported in H Hansard,'" volume 115, page 1741, said-

" The amendment was unncces3ary .and to a certain extent contradictory."

Further on he said-"Abscnce therefrom. if there is a power

of rekuning at anv time and nn inten­tion to return, will not preve11t a leR;al rc~iden{'("".

" (5.) If be has no home therci1., or has abandoned hie intention to return to what "Js previously his home therein, he is not a resident.

"Ac<'urding to his intcrprdation of the clauFe, \Yhieh \Vas very clear inde0d, he came to the conclusion that the amendment would be mere surplus:lge­that it was unnecessary."

His opinion t.hen was that it was not neces· sarv, and that these people whom the elec­toral court to-day has disfranchised in the-

Elections Acts [3 NoVEMBER.] Amendment Bill. 1681

Musgrave distri::t were entitled to be f 11-

rolled. At that time th,, hon. mem'Jer for , Drayton said-

" l':o Jncn1bcr on that sirle of ·dw l-Iou·"0 would do am·thinc; to disfranchise any working man; and: :more than rhut, they had it on evid ~nc~ fron1. thP leading n1en on tint side of the House that the clause in the Bill covered everything. That clau~e "a~ 'vide enough to t:_:kc in any working ma 1 in Qu0ensland. If it was not right, members on that side ,,-auld not support it, because th0y were not willing to disfranchi~e any n1.an ,:vhPther he lived under a brid;=;e or in a tent."

The Home Secretnry said " Hear, hear !" to that statement, and Lter on tho he 1. gentle­man said-

" He gave his int;,rpretation of the clause, and it had been quctioll(d. It was 'lOt the deqire of the Govunmcnt to deprive any on£ "\Yho -wrcs l <Jn& fl. de en­titled to be on th,• roll of the ch;m,·e of getting on the roll.''

The Home Secl'Ed,arv !-a; stated this after­noon that tho e peopk had no right to apply for u vot0, -..vhich is qui{ e opposite to wh'.t he ·•aid t,, .•lve month" ago. At that time the hon. nKmbcr distinctly stated that thee;,~~ cln··tors havin~ i he t· '. ~1Ye n1onth~' qualification and being in any IJ'_,.rticular eh . .> torate for the purpose of businees-carning their living-would be entitkd to become electors for the ole< •1ral district in which they were 'Vorking, To·day the hon. ,;entle­rnan says they have no rip;ht to bccmn,~ en­rolled.

Tho HmrE SEo.ETARY: Th: •. t is incorrect. Th''Y must conform to the proyi,:ons of t,he Act.

Mr. :McCORl\IACK: \\'hen the han. mem­ber for Mundingl urn attempted to make it perfec~.ly c:ear, the r:::om0 Scerr-tary :"aid the an1endme!1t \vas not ncceHary, and conse~ qtwntly hB agreed that these people were entitled to be <'nrolled. He now u: s that bcrause 1hcse pr ople aro t1>:>re \Yorking in the :.ugar industly they are p.·}t entitled to get on t 1w doctoral roll. That is the atti­tude of tLo Governnvmt. and certaiDh the attitude of tho gentlemen who haYe the carrying out of the electoral laws.

The Ho·-•E SI'ccRETARY: Thcv do not int'lnd t<l' remain there. '

Mr. :iVlcCOR:\1ACK: How doc any man know whether he ic going to remain or not? The hon. gentlPman knows quite well that tho time of rosicknce depends on the ple;.­sure of his employer in most ins' tl1.C'd. He may have tw,•lve months' work or he may have only one day's work. Every man is not in the fortunate position to know where he will bo in two dars' time. The Govern­ment of to-day say plainly and openly that these people are not entitled to have a say in the election of representatives to this House. That is the polic~· of the Govern­ment, and it is not surprising. The whole policy of the Government sincP the last elec­tions has been to gerrymander. IV e had gerrymandering in regard to the Herbert electorate. \Ve know the Home S-ecretary's Department was respon<ibl€' for the g~rry­mandering in that instance; an attempt was made to so arrange the· Federal boun­daries as to make the Herbert electorate a

1914-5 L

Liberal one. Later on we had the Elec­tions Act of 1913, and now we have this <Wldlding Bill. It has been rumoured that it was s''riously dijcussed at their caucus when they were deciding on these alterations ns to whether there should be an entire alteration in regard to elections-that only a given number of seat~ should be decided on onu day. '\Vhat >Vas the object? One 1ncmber in dif<,cu~~ing tho nwtter, said, nHere is t'TI cpp.-Jrtunjty. \Ve can havo so rnany elections en this Saturd l.)', and by reason o'f a prop2rty vote 1V8 can ~hift those vot"s into another ,,'ectoratc next Saturday." It can be done in tvvonty-four }ynu "' and I am sur­prised th·>t it W·lS not done. It ,,, as seriously c-onsidered. but even the pre •,ent Liberal Admini•,tration W8S ashamed to adopt it. I

ic' read to the Houe3 what tho Hon. ::l!J:r. Barlow, the Government's rc'presontative in another lJlacc, s£dd, in reference tP the pre­viou, Ele. 'ions Act. In dealing y ith the francbisc>, ho said-

" \Vhether we have done right in the franchise that we have instituted or not i•, not for me to say. 'Whether it is right that a verminous loafer in the streets, who begs a threepenny piece and gets a beer from the public·houso and devour_s sixpence worth of counter lunch, is to ha vc the same vote that the best and mcc<c accomplished member of this House ha •, is a matter that is beyond di,-.pute 110"\V."

That is tht' attitude of the Go,-ernment to­w:uds the Labour men who c'st their votes ag'linst them. Every membn on the other side doc·, not rc·pre··ent the electors at all; they rc plTSl nt their own private inturests. There is no such thing as democracy on the oth,•·r ,eide.

:\Ir. MACROSSAN: 'iVhom do you represent?

1Ir. McCORMACK: I have no other in­t•>rest but m,;- position in this House. I have not 400 or 500 bullocks for which I want £200 or .C300 extra on account of tho war. I have ··con +he hon. member fm; Too\\ong go outside the Chamber when his personal inten:':1ts are eonc.·rncd.

:\lr. 11ACARTNEY: Why should I not?

:\:Ir. McCORMACK: \Vhat ahout vour elec­tors? Your int-•rcsts should not c';,me into tho question at all. Every member on the other side of this Cham bcr is representing his own p>:T<onal interests and is attempting to gfTryni' .nd~r so that he n1ay retain his position in this House, to further his own i nterc ,L There is no question about that. The hon. member for 'l'om\-ong is the most honourable. because he dou go out of the Chamber when hie interests are being de­cidcd. But what about his constituents? They are not reprcsen+ed at all in any matter the1t rc'.icets his private interests. And even· hon. membe1' on the Liberal side is there to look after his own interects. \V e had the spectacle of one hon. member giving ns the whole of his business transactions. He was anoth, r honourable gentleman: he cam<J out into tho open and plainly told us what his l1rst duty was as a membe1·-to preserve his name as a business man.

Mr. KESSELL: You did not walk out of the Chamber when the extra £200 was proposed.

:\Ir. McCORMACK: I did not vote for it, but I would have done if I had been here;

Mr. McCormack.]

1682 Electinns Acts, Etc., Bill. [ASSEM:BLY.] Co-operative Sugar Works Bill.

and the hon. gentleman would have taken it quickly enough. If I knew the hon. gentle· man at all, he would be one of those who would walk first into the Treasury and take his extra £200 as soon as any hon. member of this House. I am surprised" that the prepent Ad­ministration have not gone farther. I think the electors of Queensland, even with all this gerrymandering, will deal it o1.1t to them at the nex~ general electiou.

Mr. :C. B. C. CoRSER: Then why all these tear~'!

Mr. ::\1cCOR~.L\CK: No tears at all. We will h>tve the hon. mombrr's scalp for cer­tain. (Laug-htn.) There is nothing to prevent us getting his scalp.

Mr. KESSIOLL: He gave you two good got·• for it.

Mr. ::i:1cCORJ\.1ACK: And the same applies to the hon. member for Port Curtis. The Home Secrdary, in speaking this evPning, gave certain reasons in connection with the filling in of claims, and he actually said that he agr;,ed with thE' registrar at Longreach when he informed certa.\n people that "N.S.\V." would not be accepted for "New South Wales." Yet all the Bills introduced by the hon. member, when clauses are acknowledged from Victorian and New South \Vale' Acts, are they not set out as "N.S.\V." for New South \Vales, and "Vic." for Victoria, and "N.Z." for New Zealand?

Mr. KESSELL: "l.W.\V."-I won't work.

Mr. McCORMACK : The hon. member takes other means of getting money besides working. There are different ways of getting money. Some people work; other people get it by· other methods. This sample form set out by the Longreac h officia:l_:it• seems remarkable that the man's name should be German, and that his address should be "Berlin." What are we to take from this: "Jacob Schmidt," Berlin " ? I would like to know something about this matter. Why does this come from the RomP Secretary's Department. \Vhy was not the name of one· of our Allic·,-a French­man or a Russian-11· ed in•,tead? I will not keep the Houso ar-· longer. I will conclude by saying that ~ . ,, surprised that the pre­sent gerrymandering of the Governmerrt did not go a little bit further-that thev did not carry out the resolution moved by" an hon. member on the other side, to have the election on different Saturdays so that they might transfer the property votes. \V e are told about the flooding of electorates.· Why we hav!l. five Chap mans removed during the' last revisiOn court from Cia vfield to Brisbane and there are hundreds of 'others I could men: tion· .. Does the han. member say that is not floodmg? Is there not an object in that? Of course there is. And because some cane­cutter des.ires to get a vote, and he is not sure he will be in the Bundaberg district for the r0st of his life, or he does not know w_hether his employer will continue to employ him, the Home Secretary says he is not to have a vote, and no say in the go­vernment of the country. This is the de­mocrn.cy of the Liberal partv. There is no doubt that the Liberal party do not stand for democracy-th!ly stand. for self-interest; they stand for their own mtert>st · and then if they have any time left, for the interest~ of their. personal friends in the country, not for the mterests of the people whom they are elected to represent. That is the Liberal party's policy as I understand it.

[11fr. McCormack.

Que"tion-That tho words proposed to inserted (Jir. Ryan's amrnrlment) be so serted-put; and the House divided:-

AYES, 24. Mr. Adamson

Barber , Bertram , Bowman , Coyne , Fihelly , Foley , Gilday

Mr. Huxham ,. Kirwan , Land , Larcombe ,. Lennon , May

McCormack , 0' Sullivan , Payne

Ryan , Thc,odore

Gillies Hamilton Hardacre Hunter

Tellers: Mr. , Winstanley

Barber and Mr. McCormack.

Mr. Appel .Archer

~OES,

Barnes, fv· PH._ • ., Barnes, ~ .

Bell Blair Booker Bouchard

, Bridges Caine

,, Corser, B. H. , Corser, E. B. C. , Cribb ,, Forsyth ,, Grayson

Gunn , Hodge

Kessell Luke

Teller&. Mr. Archer

38. Mr. Macartney , Mackay

Mackintosh , Macroo:~san , Morgan , Paget , Petrie ,. Philp

Lieut.-Col. Rankin :'>Ir. Roberts

, Somerset ., Stevens ., Rtodart , Swayne ,, Tolmie ,, Trout , Yowles , White , \Villiams

and Mr. Forsyth.

PAIR.

Aye-Mr. Murphy. No-Mr. Denham. Resolved in the negative. Original question put and passed.

be in-

LONGREACH SCHOOL OF ARTS BILL. SECOND READIXG.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Ron J. W. Blair, Ipswich): In moving the second rPading of this Bill, I desire to say that the trustees of the Long­reach School of Arts previouslv obtained

powbr from this House to pur­[9 p.m.] chase certain land in order to

erect thereon a school of arts. They sold the land under that Act, but were unable with the proceeds derived from the sale to obtain suitable land. Afterwards they entered into negotiations with the Shire Coun0il of Longreach, and made an agree­ment with them, by virtue of which they were allowed to erect buildings on certain portions of a public reserve. In order, how­ever, to do that legally, they require to get the power of this House. This Bill is simply to ratify and confirm the agreement entered into between the parties. It has been already referred to a Select Committee which have reported that all is in orde/ I content myself with moving the second reading of the Bill.

Question put and passed. The committal of the Bill was made an

Order of the Day for to-morrow.

CO-OPERATIVE SUGAR WORKS BILL. SECOND READING.

On this Order of the Day being called, RoN. R. PHILP : I move-

"Tha.t Arthur Feez, Esq., K.C., counsel learned in the law, be now

Co-operative Sugar [3 NoVEMBER.] Works Bill. 1683

l1eard at the bar of the House in support of the petitions presented from Gibson an·l Howes, Limited, Fritz Kinne, Henry R:mda!i, and Thomas Braddock, Buss Brothers, th<' Farlcigh Estate Sugar Com­pany, Limited, the Fairymead Sugar f'ompany. Limited. the Millaquin Sugar l'ompany, Limited, and the Colonial Sug'<r Refining Company, Limited, in re­ference to this Bill."

::'vir. RYAN: The House on Friday last ·decided that :Mr. Feez should be heard, and I understand tha.t this motion now is merely to decid•· tho time at which that h•<u-ing shall take place. I just rise to prcte•ot against the procedure that Parliament is adopting­on this OC'Casion, boca use no reason has boen givea as to why counsel should be heard at ·the bar qf the House. All we have before us is that certain pecitions are lodl!ed, making certain requests to Parliament, -but 'there arc no specific rea•ons given why it is neccsear.• that counsel should be heard, and l z •n anxious that some definite procedure ehould b.-, laid down as to what occasion will merit the granting of the privilege that we .are nmY confCcrdng, bec:mse I can quite con­·ceiY0 that many potitioi1s may be presented here, and if the mere fact of lodging a pcticion and some member moving that >Coum0l be heard is sufficient, the whole time of Parlian1ent 1nav be frittered a'vay in a ''ry usele's way. 'r have no doubt that we shn ll hear a verv instructive addre~1"1 fro:n1 Mr. Feez on the particttla1· subject that he is <liscuc·,ing. I have no doubt that he will put the case for the va.!.~icu.s petitioners~the Colonial Sugar Refining Compan, and others -as well as it can be put. I notice that the hon. member for Townsville ;,ad his motion eeconded by a member of the Government­the Secrct .. ,.ry for Agriculture. I pointed out on Friday that I hav0 no doubt that there are many han. members on the opposite side of the House "·ho are quite capable of putting the ca -e for the Colonial Sugar Refining Company. (Hl'ar, hear!) Perhaps at this ·tage of Parlia;nent it may be more con­venient to have it put from the bar of the House,

l\lr. FIHELL Y: I recognise that it is the custom outside tha.t when appearing on be­half of any litigant, just as counsel is appear­ing to-night on behalf of the various com­panies, counsel is instructed by some firm of solicitor--. I think the name of the solicitors instructing Jdr. Feez to appear should be intimated to the House. It would also be well if we could ascertain whether Jl.1r. Feez ever had any actual experience as a manual labour0r in sugar-fields, or whether he had any personal in-<ide knowledge of the sugar indu-;try either from a milling or a refining ·point of view; or in what particular respect his knowledge has been gained. It might also, in addition, be interesting to the people out­·side the House whom we represent, were we to know whether JI.'Ir. Feez would have accepted a brief from the workers had he been approached by them before the millers or the Colonial Sugar Refining Company. It will indicate in that case that Mr. Feez's opinion is really not worth much. I trust, Mr. 'Speaker, that you will t<tke measures to ascertain who the solicitors .are. We know who the parties are. There are Fritz Kinne, Henry Randall, arid Thomas Broddock ; Buss Brothers; the Farleigh Estate Sugar Refining Company, Limited; the Fairymead ;Sugar Company, Limited; and the Milia-

<1uin Sugar Company, Limited. We know their representatives. \V e know that Mr. Feez and the hon. member for Townsville and the Secretary for Agriculture are in a subsidiary position here as agents for the Colonial Sugar Refining Company, and it will be interesting to know who the firm of solicitors are.

Hon. R. PHILP: There is not a word c.f truth in that remark of the hon. member for Paddington.

Mr. FIHELL Y: It is becoming intolerable the way I am interrupted by hon. members opposite. (Opposition laughter.) I am sure the peoplu outside would like to know what fir,•t of solicitors is instructing- counsel. They would also be pleased to know whether Mr. Feez Y•ould have accepted a brief either from the worlvrs or sugar-producers who an· in­tore--ted. It would be gratifying to the sugar­growers and the workero of Queensland were they to be informed as to whether Mr. FP•cz ever had any actual experience either as a manual labourer or as a canegrower.

Qupstion-That Arthur Fecz, Esq., K.C., be heard at the bar of the House-put and passed.

Mr. FEEZ having been escorted to the bar of the House by the Sergeant-at-Arms,

The SPEAKER said: Mr. Feez,-The House is 110W prepared to hear you on behalf of the petitioners.

Mr. FEEZ: Mr. Speaker,-In the remarks that I propose to make to the House, I do not intend to take up much of your time, for I believe. as I think most of the members o£ tlh' House believe, that brevity is the soul of reason and the strength of argument. I wish, first of all, to express, on behalf of my client'\, the petitivners in tbis 1natter, their -d' ep appreciation of the .courtesy which the Hc.t:se J'as extended to them in allowing coumel tD be heard at the bar of this House or the Bill, '' 1Iich, I understand, is a Bill to provide for the ec.tab!ishment and mann ge­ment of co-operative sugar-works. It is, I believe, unique in the history of this State for counsel to address members of the House on behalf of a client in regard to env mea,ure to be debated by them. and I [l,,c,-dore particularly feel the courtesy that h3s been extended to my clients, and, nec88-sarily, the responsibility which devolves upon '11£ in the few words I am about to utter to the House. I may say that I do not propose tD advance any shadowy or showy argu­rr,ents bu~ rather to deal with ethical, logic~!, and, so far as possible, hw;nanitarian re;>,sons, in order, if possible, to mduc~ the House to accede to the requests of my c!Ienta. I can a<sure you, gentlemen, every one of :vou that you will not be called upon to iist~n to an'v tales of woe or tribulation with regard to any of my clients during my _argu­ments. I wish to say that, though nommally appearing for the petitioners,. I an;., as a matter of fact--I feel confident 111 saymg so-­voicing the opinion and expressing the views of every other proprietary mi!lowr:er in Queensland. I thmk I can sa.y that, m con­fidence, although you w!l! have. probably noticed the number of petitiOners IS not very large That the number is not larger is due, I regret to say, tD the fact that the time •at the disposal of the mil_l~wne':s for the p;ur­poses of getting the pet1t10n signed, or bemg

1684 Co-operative Sugar [ASSEMBLY-] Works Bill_

enabled to be represented here to-night, was so short that. in many cases the proprietors coul? not ava1l :themselves of the opportunity. I Wish to straight away point out to the House several features of the Bill to which my clients take exception. On their behalf, I ass~rc the House t~at thPy do not, in the s~1g htest de&ree, e1ther fear or object to fan· co':lpetrtwn .. ~o long as they are allowed fan competrbon with these mills which ,Jrc to be established under this Act the:'i-"' r:~ise no objeclion whatever but whcthe1: their objccti,~n will carry an~ ,., eight is another question. They do not quarrel with the principle of co-operation, and they are not here, through me, to attempt to criticise th.e policy '?f ~he Dill, ?r the. principle of the B1ll, even 1f It were m the1r province, and they v. oro permitted to do so. But the effect o ~ this Bill io to go far beyond anything hJt!Jel'lo ._ti ·mpted or contemplated, and far beyond what, I suhmit, \\as outlined by the Hon. the Premier in his speech to this House OL the Addrc''' in Rcplv. If I mav be per­Dlitted to para,,hrase the rrmarh:< of £hat hon. f:0~1tlcnF,.n- jn·-t rrfr>rrrd to, the re"nlt ,,-il~ be tl:.'t if this Bill i.s pa,sed in its cntuety, without th0 altcl·ahons which I am lP,tcr on '::oing- to FUDT''t::->t to thl I--Iousc to disco~r<s" private ct;t~rprise a- J tD pre~ent pro~1r1t>tar:(,: COLlpanir -., ':~-ith <'"ctpital inyested, from carryma: Dn their l'tilk ·and it will deal a mor~<ll be ):_;

1 to . the sug.ar industry in

Qucrnswnd. .111~t JH what I contend, on behalf of my client·<, ,.il] he the result of this Bii!. if ii is pa"ed in the form in ·. hich it now appears boforc the House. The t"o partic1lr· clauses in this Bill ta which we object are those contained in subclauses (7) aml (d) d clou 7. C'au c 7 of the Bill providrs 1 hat--

,, For the purposes oi this Act, the -t _)rporation "~

which is by the int~rprc11tion clatP~ defined to le tl ., Tr •a• 'll'Cr of the Stete-

" hall b·.ye power froLt time to time to take. pu1 :...:ha J\ contract for tho use of, or orhor\Y:se provide, {lllY land "\vhich n1av be required for, the sugar-works, or any raihYay, tr qn.-a~~, wharf, or other o,v-ork-" ·

:'\ow, I :-to;1 the1·e to point ou' thd that is the right of acquiBition of property ap.art from tho next right of aoqui ,j! · m which is to-

" acquire n.1nnin,::;· rights over any tram­\Yay.;'

The following portion of that subclatve deals wit~t the nH 'hod under which co.npensation will be ITrantc:l to the owner of this class of property if bken from him under the pro­visions of '.nbclause (7). Not on],_, does sub­clause (7) give power to the T1easurcr of Qw· ~7J'da.nd to a('qui12 land flLd propcTty for th0 purpc-c-es thcrPin mcntionc ·.t but-as you, gentlemen. no douht. are awar<'-the Bill provide:' that h, c-thirds of the cot of such purch':· c ic to b0 11rovid0cl b;- the State of Queensland, one-third only being provided hy the respective sharC'holders of th<' co-opentivo mill. Subsection (8) provideJ that-

" The corporation and any company"-

that is, a company which is formed under this Act, in whom by virtue of this Act any sugar-works are for the time being vested,

mav construct, lay down, maintain, and: "'""ofk any tramway or railway upon an' road or land, including Crown land.•, and rnav use thereon any locomotives and roliing-stock drawn or' propelled by ani­mal, ,team, or other motive power. I should like also to remark in connection with that subcrdion, with all due rnpect to­the framer of the Bill, that something is· evidently not made quite as plain as it might be, for it ,provfdf's that not only may the corporation-the Treasurer of Queensland­but " any company" in whom any sugar­works are for the time being vested, lay down tramways on any land. The Bill does not give any power to the ,,)mpany to acquire land, so that it "·ould scorn as if so one omis­sion hud been made, or there was some mis­under"tanding ith regard to the powers of a company under the Act, and that it has greater powers under that sectiou than are­intended. I would furthPr tJJint out that, larg,, as aro thn power:; giyen Lv subsection (7)-and I will shoe:· you dircctiy that they aro very larg-P, so large that I submit that this House shoc~IJ pause bdore it puts such powers intD the hands of a co-operative body or any othor !J<Ay a" arc provided for here --but larg{_~ as tho.sc }Jo>yc:·s ,lrC', those given by subsection (8) arc very much larger ; and, a: I said before, I hesitate to bcli<lvc that thoee powers arc not more extcneive than

ere rcnllv intended bv th: framers of the BilL Tho cl:1usc- th:1t I have jmt men­tioned Pl11hr:tC2 hat S<'Clll to III? cEPnts, and -",·hat I "~1b:nit to thi~ llou~0 are, very ob­jc::hJJnblc ard unfair provisions. In the fin:t place. they gTant the pOWC'" to co-opera­tive mills of cotnpuLorily taking l~YJ.ds fm· the purpo~e of building mills, tramways, etc., as I h "V. just read out from the clause--a r' ·~ht which is denied to the ordinarv mill rropriet"r. Th·~l\ · is a -differentiatiorl in a VLry ('XU';:ordinary degree bct"\Ye-~n the oo­oporative propric tor that is proposed to bo brought into exi tencc by this Bili and the ordinary propriot'Jr well known in Queens­land-the mill prc;,rietor who has carri<>d on for 1nany Vf'{US, with ') n1uch benefit to this country, tLe bus:ness of sugar-making. b- <. -mclly, tl: y confer upon <-o-o:,erativ;o mills the po:,-cr vF taking and usinq- the tratnlines, nee or!_, of locd authoritiee, lnt, p·'rhaps, of tho Gave· -'!lmE'nt tlvmselve,, and the tram­'' ays of private individuals which have been laid down at grea' C>-JWllS<.' in the past. and which ma;' bf', comtruei·, d in the futnre b:9 con1panies and indivi,ilual propriL\tor3 such as n1y clients. I c::tn ass 1;_re, you, Rir, and the House, that we do vi w >Yith con-oiderable alarm tho 0ff• ds not only on our o\•:n bnsi­nr ~:-- hut on th~ 1-vhole -,ngar-gro'\v~·1g com­mnnitv ,, 11ich will follow if this House thinks' ftt in ii'' wisdom to n,rr:v out tho ideas <'mbodiPCl in this Dill, so far a· they relate to tho·o 'nattcrs, without alteration, The power to tcke land com;mlsorily for the pur­pocn of tho C"' '+ruction of tram·.-. ays will enable a co-op 1 : lYC mill to coml1eto ,,·ith tho proprietor, 1niH on most unfair terms, : 'ld I think if I em pcroua do the, H ouso that that is so. I shall have gone a long way to­w,,_rrls 0ffPcting tho obj0ct for which I am hero to-nigi1t. bc:)cau,,:. I an1 addrc,s -,ing a British audience. and to a Britiehor fair plav is tho soul of everything. If I can persuade the memlv rs of this House that it is not fair play which is 1t present being meted out to the proprietors of sugar-mills, I think I shall ha1 _, -;rry ]i; tk~ diff-iculty in pPrsu1.ding hon. members to agree to the requests I am going to mako. The propriotarv mill is necessarily

Co-operative Sugar [3 NOVEMBER.] W orlcs Bill. 1685

forced to 1·dy for its ri"·ht to nm tramways ov cr other people's properties on cith0r the goodv:iil of the owners of those propPrtios or on contrctctual rdation,hip-, which it ha·­enterr~d into in thr past, or n1ay puL_r into in the future, t0 enable it to pass over the lands of those prvprktor; over v·hich it is -nee•." cuy for theu to P"-'·3 in order to build thEeir tr-" •1lines. Tho w-op<-ra+ive mill, on tho other band, is, under this Bill, permitted to acquire tho s lme rig hto. over all land, \vhothor the uwn0r.~ of th-:nl are agreeable -or not- -yvh2th0r th('Y .are 1Nilling' partiP'3 ·to the bargai~1 or not, an~l ,dDther such acquisi­tion rneds with the ·-pproval of the owners >Qf th•1 land or the shi?'G council or local governing 1Jody, o1· the :Govornn1ont. \A,Then I said the o··--·ncr·, of the land, I me-ant the .owner:- of tho land ov'-r whicb tbJ right-. are acquir<>d. The result, ther:•foro. i,: that .the erection of a co-operative mill in -a dis­trict in '.-hich a proprietary mill a!rcady exist" cannot he otherwis0 than disastrous to the prop rid uy mill, and, as I will o.ttempt to point ont laL~1 on, Vl)ry inj~-rious to the interest of the r :negrowFr also; and as I understand that this Bill is being il)troduced 1argcly (o ~nablc tho cancgrower to obtain the be•t price for his C1mc, the intend0d effect of the Bill may be thus fruetratcd. As I h; ve already ~·.1~cl. n1v clientf:· do not object in any . ' ay to ; omlwtition on fair terlYlP 1 but the provisions which I ;-qn deal­ing· y,Tit~1 t:Jlo\v con1petition on tenus which are not fair-which are r.cally very prejudi­cial to their interest. The provisio11o with whic1r I oun defiling 'nnbl!' ccn individual. if ho feels eo inclined, not onlv to drprive the proprietary owners of large- sources of sup­plies of cane, hut also to forc0 gTo-·.vcrs vvho are ·willing and anxious to ha vo their CLlne

treated by prop1ietary mills to mpply th_. co-operatin' mills, or go out or the cane­growins b~tsine·.s altogether. It is E'llFV, of cour-,.""'. to give mCl~ny inf'tanc::-. of hoY{ un­fairly these provisions in the Bill would work, but, perhlips. on<' specific case will be

sufficient to illustrate rry argu­{9.30 p.m.] nwnt. \nd let me say hPre. Sir,

that l hold no hrid on behalf of one particular ( ompany or one particular n1ill fH''·~1ri'-'tor in Qur·>''n"land or in Aus­tralia. I hold a brief h0re to-night on be­hal£ of ~"very pror,rietor," n1ill in _L'\_u :.;traEa, particularly i'l Quee>lsl>mcL and v.-!u 1.ev0r arguments I adduce. and whah\'Cr <·xampl~s I may pnt bdorc thP Hocrs0. the_, nnHt \,.-, tak<'n merely typical Pxamp!es-om·, which have bPc-n suppE('c1 to 1110 sjn1pl_' as shol"> inp: in tho best w,, -.- that I can pr: .sibl:v choTt- to the House the reason' >.nd fonndations of my argum'nt. I was saying th ~t I could give many inshncDs. hut that one wonld },o sufficient. In one of the large snga r-grov-ring -diGtrlct;; of Qu-;, L.~dand a vc~'Y r:xtensive .vnd up-to-date r;rorriotory mill has been CrE'Cted, That :nil! has extended it' tramlin1·s for a considera',Je distance from the mill, through L'lrg-e arL.•.s of privatE-ly OlJn.Pd fUg~._.r land in and around the district. It hos on],- beer. Dnablod to do thi:; by acquiring. at so~e con· .s;df'Yah\) cxpc:~c;·,.} right'3"of-,vay ove-r tbe different lands 0\- nnd bv the different farmers i;l the clistric:.. Sorne ~f thcsP rights-of~vvny, or ease•nents, are f'hortly falling in, and, of DDUr:· 2, a Yery 1naterial quL,gtion arises, in th,, intcrc·Jts of that mill, as to whether these right' are to be renc>YPd. The proprietor" of this mill arc informed that tho owner of one farm thtough whose land, the tramline

runs, and the use of whose land is absolutely essential to the mill for the purpose of reach­ing the oupply of cane over a large area, has refused, <,r is about to refuse, to renew the mill's right-of-way over his land, as that par­ticular mnrcr is de eircus of having a co­operative mill estnbli.hed in tho district. No one r .n, of course, object to that particular owner pnl·suing tho courf'e ·which seems t-o him be,;t in his own intcre-ts, and I am not quarr.Jiing with him for that in the dightest degree, lJut, Sii', thE' effect of that refusal of hio puts the proprietary mill in an extremely awb,-ard position. The owner of the pro­prietary 1.>ill having no simil>_tr power to that ,,_ hich is p;·opo ,.d to b2 g·1ven to tho co­operative mill under this Bill-that is, of ,,,cquiring portion of that grower's land for the purpose of hi' tramline-ie, perforce com­]Jclled to ]ace the whole of hi' oupplies from all the gro·-1 crs ' ho are situa~ed beyond the farm hclongir1g to thio particular grower. Thev are olocked from p-etting his cane be­cause he v;on't sell it. and they arc blocked fron1 getting all the cane -which is gro-wn on :n·~·as h2Yo:nd hin1 bc:_auso he v.,on't allow th_ vrop1:ietary mill to pa"' a tramline ?V~r his prrrticnlar area. ,\nd, gentlemen, th1s IS

a·particularly har h ca--·, becaU1 8 this is done not'.rithsta!lding the fact that in a number of cD,:;c 'J thc,,r n1C'n arc farn1ing lands a~quired bv the millowner and resold to the fdrmer" for tho purpose of securing supplies o~ cane for his mill. It v cnld be bad enough lf that farmer h'1d obtained the land himself, but v~o~hcrcas :n lrtanv Df the"lc c3 ·c,:s, ·which are ,imilar· to the one I h:>ve put before the Hou-o, tho land was a-;tually acquired by the mill ]Jroprietor, and for tho purpo--e of bPncfiting, no doubt, himse!f, hut also the cancgrmver and thr- commumty generally, he wtssed that land on to the farn,er, and that farn1er is now, v-.ith thP proYisions o£ this Bill in view, enabled to thwart and prac­(ieallv ruin the mill proprietor, simply bP­cause- he wishes to deJ.l with the co-ope-rative mill which is to be nrovidod under this BilL ThP CO-OW·l·ative mill, on the other hand, having the ri7ht denid to the proprietary mill, can complete it' tramlines to. the ou~­lying land; it c!ln g-o over th1s mans land v hether he rs favourable to the pro­prietarY mill or not. It ha3 the right under this Biil t.o h k0 the land. and if there is an intPrYf'nln~ far~n-0r V\"ho IS antagonistic to tho propnch.ry 1nill, or who dr,-"ires to con­tinup wit•h tho'o mills who have clone well for him in the past. the -·a-operative mill is p-iven power to forcibly resume po~tions of his bnd for the purpose of- bmldmg a tro.mli1 :· over it. And tho co-operative mill can compel the growers tn sell • h0ir cane to the co-operative mill by 'this rnean:::;, hcnvcvcr diRi: clint-:>d thc,v n1a."}. h2- to do _,o, and that, Sir, irrespective of the prices oft;·r 1 for cane by the mill. That is so uncll'l· the provisions of this Bill. :'\at only is the co-o;, era i:lve mill put on a very fa\'OJU d ba is as compf •. rod to the proprie· tai.'V n1ill in rPspcct of obtaining J&,nd~re­~nl~ling }and for tho purpose of tho FUgar

ork or the tram1ine~ or anythinrr e1se­h11t thcv nan con1pel the grn\Vi)r, ·who does 1 ~t wa~t to deal with them by the means a· d the wav in which I have just pointed out, to de~l with their co-operative mill. This unfair competition must, of course, necessarily not only detrimentally a.ffect th_e proprietary mill but may, as 1 am sure th1s House can c asily seo, lead in a very short

1686 Co-operative Sugar [ASSEMBLY.] Work8 Bill.

time to its absolute ruin. This in itself must exhibit a very seriuus defect in the Bill, and what, perhapP, may bring the matter more for<;;ibly before those who are so ,anxious to see that the grower gets the fullest and fairest price for his cane, is what I hr, ve alrercdy pointed out with respect to the effect; tlmt it will have upon competition. And I think every member of this House wiil admit that competition is the founda­tion of all good business, and if the effect of this Bill is to eliminate competition it must inevitably n•dound to the detri­ment of tll tho.le who are growers of cane. And it will, as I have attempted to point out, act adversely to the idea which I be­lieve great numbers of the members of this House have in supporting the principle of this Bill-namely, the benefit of the sug.ar­gro\ver. \nd, gentlemen, the fact is, as you all know, that this extraordinary and unfair effect is sought to be brought about by the use of public funds, which are to be provided for the establishment of rivals in business, with great loss-as I have al­ready pointed out-and poesibly ruin to proprietary mills, without any compensation for the loss suffered. Such a provision as the first one I have been dealing with. i£ allowed to remain, renders this Bill-I say with all respect-nothing more nor les~ than a confiscatory measure so far as pro­prietary mills ar· concerned. It will in­evitablv compel the proprietary mills now running to- ce~-:~se their businr-:ss, :.:..nd it will cc~rtainly prevent such mills being erected .in the future, at all evenb with privatP capital; and that moans that the State will be called upon to provide two-thirds of all capihl required f01 the establishment of fur­ther mills in Queensland. This prevention, if the eff~-,Dt }::, a'j I suggest, would undoubtedly, judg-ing by the history of the sugar industry in th0 pa~t, be h matter of E·xtremf' regret. Now, Sir, it must be apparent from what I have already pointed out, that th8 Bill, if pas;;ed in its entirety-if passed without some provision being n1ade in fairne,,s to the pro~ prietary mills, similar to that which is provided for the co-operative mills-will enable the co-operative mills to compete on mod unfair terms with the proprietary mills; and I therefore urge you, gPntle­men of the House, most respectfully, that the portion of tho Bill so enabling this un­fair competition should be expunged. But if the Hou:<c, in it wi-rlom, thinks fit not to do thi,, then I would sug :est tl at, in all fairness to the proprietary mills, they should be placed on the same basis, with the same ri -, hts aml with the sa, me 111 ivile:_;?s, as the co-operatiye mills; and that, if necessary, a proviso should be added to subsections (7) and (8) to the effect that if sugar-growers desire to c:-tablish a co-operative mill in a district in which a proprietary mill already exists, the rights granted to the co-operative mill should also bo extended to thP proprietary milL It may, perhaps, be said that such a matter can best bQ dealt with by a separate measure. But I am bound to urge that, in all fairness to my clients, an Act of Parlia­ment which cuts at the very foundation of perfectly legitimately established interests should surely itself provide such safeguards as may be admitted to be necessary. And that is all I wish to sav about the first portion of subsection (7) of section 7 of the Bill. I would merely reiterate that in our opinion, in the opinion of my clients-and

I am quite sure it mu,t come with force home to the members of the House, and will be their opinion also-that the co-opera­tivB- mill, that is propo cd to be c•stablished under this Bill, will be in re;;pcct of these matters in a very unfair position in com­petition with the proprietary mil!; that the co-operative mill will have advantages and b.onefits be -towed tmon it which ",':e denied to the proprietary rnill, and which are con­trary to that fairness which we expect in a British community. I pass now to say a few words with regard to the !athr portion of subsection (7) of section 7 of the Bill. That is the section which gi-,es the powct· to the corporation to acquire running rights over a tramwav. As no doubt the mPmbers­of thi• Hou:.c ·are aware, many tramways laid down by the proprictc:ry companies haye mst them v,'ry large mms of money not only in the actual comtruction of the lines them­~rolves }.ut al<:o in th( a'.:ql,i "i1 ion o!' the land over which the tramway is built or rights­of-way over that land. I am informed that the trarn\rays erertecl in Queens~ land by the priv'lte millowncrs have cost on an aYerage about £10 £01· every acre of land fron1 which thcv receive cane. To enable others who have had no part in this, which I might almost call "the pioneer­ing work of the industry"-to enable them to n:ap the benefit of others' labour and expenditure seems to me, and I think will 'cem to this House, grossly unfair and very nearly approaching co-nfiscation. Of course, I may be met with the suggestion that the corPoration has and is required by the Bill to nav compensation for any running rights acq'Ui~ed, and no doubt that is true. That io provided by the second paragraph of the subeection (7) to which I am referring. But 1 answer that suggestion in two ways. First of all I submit that that compensation must neces~arily be inadequate. If it is not in· adequate; that is to say, if adequate com­pensation ic given it will amount to this: that on a tram•,, av which is used bv two mills one co-operative and one proprietary, the ~ost of compensation of the running rights should be at least one-half of the capital value of that tramline; and I ven­ture to think that those who are responsible for this Bill, and the policy contained in this Bill could neYer have imagined for one moment 'that they were not only committing themselves to an pxpenditure of two-thirds of the value of the property required and the cost of erecting those sugar-"-orks, but thev were also perhaps committing them­seh:es to the ex1;enditure of half the vast sum that I have already pointed out ha~ been spent in the construction of tramlines. !l.:;t I think it is fmwh more likely that the cornpen.sation to bv rnudr: \YOU1(1 not b -, adequate, not half the value of the tramline as it should b<>, but thClt it win probably be attempted to- be made most in­adequate, and I do not think that anyone in this community will think or believe that property is to b.; taken from one person at half or less than its full value. But another answer I make to the suggestion as to. the provision for compenntion being in the Bill is that it would be almost impracticable to determine what the proper compensation would be. It is certain! v the first time in my experience--the first .time I am aware of such a thing in British legislation-that a competitor in trade is enabled to use his

Co-operative Sugar [3 NOVEMBER.] Works Bill. 1687

opponent's imj)lements for such competition, and that combmed with such a provision of public funds and the granting of other extra­ordinary rights to enable him to oust his competitor. I may again be met with the suggestion that the principle involved in this matter is similar to the terms often imposed on tho~<-~ acquiring the right to cons~ ruct and run private railways; that is. that they shall, as a condition of such right, permit the use of their railways by others for the same purpo,e. But there is not, I submit, any analogy between the two casf's. In the case of the private railway, the individual who builds it knows that he is expending money with these conditions attached, and he is able to judge whether, under the cir­cumstances, he considers the bargain suffi­ciently beneficial to his interests. In the case of the tramlines of the proprietary sugar-mill. they have in many cases been constructed not because thev were at the time of great b<'ncfit to the 1nill hut l-ccuusc they indur •_•d the production of cane on land which might otherwise have been inacces­sible, and not only had th0 owners to find money for constructing the tcann; .tys but they also had very often to find money for aPquiring- the bnd ov<'r which the tramw.n·s were laid. The proprietary millowners, in fact. built these tramways for their own benefit. with their own money;:, at their own risk and without any present idea or thought of any restrictions as to tlwir user being attached to them; and I think, t-herefore, that, if that argument is adduced against what I have said, there is really no analogy between the two. Another objectionable feature in this connection is that it might, and probably would, in a large cane district, lead to endless confusion, and untold incon­venience and friction. I think even-one will ag-ree that tramwavs cannot run t.; a time­table. A dozen things may affect the times during which the lines may be required by one or another of the mi!J,q, and remember I am addressing these remarks to the posi­ti<m wh;ch rnay arise if a co-operative mill cloPs exPrcise running rights on a proprietary mill's lines. They may both wish to run at the same time. As I say, they cannot run to a time-table, and someone has to give wav. Even as at present situated, the mills having running rights over their own lines are frequently hampered in their running operations bv inability to keep up a con· tinuous supply of cane to the mills. and such a continuous supply is essential to the proper working of tho mill, which is often seriously ham)wred from causes entirelv bevond the control of the proprietor or .his ~anager. For instance. there may be a breakdown on the line•; there may be a br-:;akdo"-"' in th·' mill; it may be that other arrangements have to be made to bring in from an out­lying district supplies of cane from a par­ticular area; or the grow<'rf. have been from a variety of causes unable to keep up their work with its usual regularity. A train of tru0ks sent down to this particular area not having sufficient can0-supply to warrant its lcavino- at the expe0ted time, a considerable delay necessarily takes place before the train will be ablo to continue its running back to the mill. And who is to have the right of precedence to run on th<>'le tram lines? \Vho is to manage the tram lines? Is a trust to be appointed for that purpose also? Is a corporation, such as the corporation that is to manage the mill, to be appointed also

for the management of the tramlines? And just as instancing the difficulties which might and would inevitably occur if tv:o rival mills had the use or' the same tramline, I would like to refer to a well-known instance of a certain company which owns two mills on the Herbert River, where on occasions it is nccc~oary for both those mills to use the same tramline. The result of that nser has even in that case caused a great amount of friction and a comidcre1ble amow1t of trouble and inconvenience, and if it has occurred where this tramline is owned and controlkd by the same proprietors, how much moro ag-gra\~at~-d and aet>:_·ntunt€d it would be if used by two or perhaps more proprietors not working in the same in­terests? The disabilities which I have just now pointed out with regard to the acquisi­tion of thP;;;e running rights will not only a!Iect the millowncr, but they will also­as in the case which I put before-affect the interests of the canegrpwer, and that pre­jud'ciallv, for not only will the latter be ach-ersely affected by the depreciation in the quality of their cane as the result of delays but the interruptions must inevitably add to the cost of their harvesting operations, as unle:cs the• employee-<. who invariably work on a contr.·. ct basis, arc a;dured of regular wo~k so far as is possible under. existing circumstances, the immediate effect will be an increase in the contract price. Even if the employee were on day wages the same result would follow, ~s his daily output would be curt~ilcd. Be;;idcs, there i~ no necf's•-ity, so far as I know in Queensland, for existing tramwavs to be used bv two or more rival manufa~turers, for I can safely assert-and I think that everyone else wili agree with me -that in no sugar district in Queensland are the local conditions such as to render it im­possible to lav down an independent tram­wav ciervice for a co-operative mill. This is what we urge: That no amount of com­pensation or other ameliorative advantages can justify taking the property of one owner so as to 0nable a rival business to enter into

competition with him. In the r'o p.m.] foregoing remarks I have attemp-

ted to deal with the matter upon logical. sound, ethical, and moral reasons, and I would further like to point out that my clients-quite apart from their rnoral and legal rights-deserve the fairest hyat~cnt from this country. Th<•y consist. as you know, of corporations and individuah who have to a g-reat extent been the pioneers in the sugar industry in Queensland. Th' ir endeavour has nlwavs been to enrourag-c settl•'mf'nt on the land. around their mills, '-and thoug-h 'in doing this they have no doubt benefited themselves -I am 'not claiming for them any altruistic nrinciples:--thPy ha.v0, ho,vevPr. to a very hrg-e extent, benefited thP g-rower. and they have been admittedlv a verv rrc>at factor in the commercial welfare of the whole of this o0mn1unity. In many ca:;:0s they have suf­fered actual p0cuniar:v lo~s in opening land for settlement. Some of them. at all events, are among-st those who, after bearing the brnnt and burden of the fight, saved the indu~try from collapse when, in the early nineties, the industry was in such dire straits that manv of the mills closed down, and it almost lo~ked as if the annihilation of the industry was imminent. They have spent vast sums of money in building mills, in construct­ing tramways, in the equipment of mills and machinery, and in providing means of cultivation and other improvements of the

1688 Co-operative Sugar [_\SSEMBLY.] Works Bill.

land. There are, I understand, some forty­eight mills in operation in this State. Of these, the petitioners alone control sixteen. The capital which the petitioners have inYE :ted in milling plant and tramways­! want the House to particularly notice that I am omitting anything about land-but in milling plant and tramways, the capital invested by the petitioners amounts to about £2,500,000. This may be properly de•·,cribed as ''fixecl c'!pital," to whiLh must be added a very large amount for what may be de­scribed as '· floating capital," and which is re­quired for the carrying on of their operat.ons. The members of tho Honse ar(•, no doubt, acquainted with th,, evidence given before the Royal Commission appointed by the Federal Government to inquire int-, the sugar industry of t!w Uommonw< ctlth. It would, of course, be impossible, and out of place, to refer in any dct:1il to the evidence furnished before the commissioners, but I would like to point out that while it was proved that some of tho proprietary mills were working at a loss, others were making but small profits. Taking them as a wholG tho evidence showed that the proprietary mill~ did not leverage more than 7 per cent. net profit on the capital sum invested in the industry, and that this 7 per cent. was, in many instances, ccllculated without ,rnaking any allowance for deprecia­tion in tho value of plant, etc. On the other hnnd, the ~tatemt•nts of a great many of those cane farmers Y:ho allowed their figures to be published sho•,: ed that the avPrage rate of profit on the capital invested wa'· twice and even three times as great as that which I have mentioned as profits made by the mills. I think that if those who allowed their profit, to be disclosed were of that nature, one can reasonably infer that the profit< o£ those who would not allm\ their .figures t·J 1,~, di'-oclosed was cyan greater. I wish to inform the House that I am per­sonally in no way responsible for thrse figures. They were supplied to me bv a gentlen:an who lad made a complet0 stu'dy of the evi­dence given on the Commission, and I think, thcrf'fore, that tho House can accept them as thoroughly reliable. One of the petitioners has, in one particular district, be•n instru· m0nt.al in settling ;.mne 200 growers on lands, which they formerly owned, and which they pas.·.ed on to the growers, with, if not actual monetary loss, certainly no monetary gain to them><,lves. These growers started with practi­cal!? no capital. They have ever since made a good living, and to-day their assets arc esti'moted at a value of something like £270.000. I mention these facts in no spirit of "!orif:cation of the conduct of mv dients, bu. f{Jf th· f:Ul'pC '?' Of f3.h{J 1\illg' tbat·, ('YCll if thny Clo not rec·~ive bc)ne:.cial treatment fro1n this House, tbev shnuld cmhinlv not. be ad­vc:·c·Pl!- or rw·,j,;diciall:v dr!:clt w:th. L thrPc of the corporations which are amongst the p0tition:>r:::, th1~re uro manv sharphold0rs of all r1n~·,.,P~. , ·-:>YCf, m l agr:,, Th' hnrcs i> one at least o.f thr_ . ..,_.e corpor-ttions have aln1o,.,.t be:rYr-·,0 of ~--tal:le vn1uc. anr1 hav8 1~ 'Pn L_rgcly availc~d of a..:. in,-0stnH·n~s for tru;:;t n1onr>vs. in whi--~h. natu1 aJly, amongst oth0rs, ,-ddo·;,-s anr1 orph;u~ ~ Hl'e cor_-_'Prnr-d. :,rcmh0~s of thi, House knoY, to which comp:' ny I rcfPr, All v~~.o ha' c a.cqu~r0d shares in thi~ corpon.tio:1 of Lt.r' :v<ar, have bet·n, and arc nov,.·, r;'r~ivin , no·: hing n1ore th:\n a rea :Dnable return o:n t1H'ir n1onpy. CQrtainly, persons buying into such gilt-ed~od ·heurities cannot be looked upon as "Rpcculators." They are m<errly soeki1Jg a saf0, ,,teady,

and consistent security. If the provisions of tlw 13ill are to bi passed as they appear on the paper before n:e, it is har.dly to be expe,:ted that tlwy \\Jil so remam. As I said before mv clients in no way quanel with the system of corporation. That sys­tem, Loth in sugar-mills and butter factorie", has been in existence and encouraged under tho laws of this Swte for some considerable time. The basis of such encouragement h~s been entirely different from that proposed m the present case of co-operative mills. Under that qystem competition was on equal terms; rhe chance", the opportunities, the advan­ta,es v ere the same for all. JYh- clients w;uld continue to welcome competition of that cl sr,, But, as I have already shown, they are going to ha,•e forced upon them LOlllpetitir·n of an entirely different class-:-a cmnpetition which I have ventured to desJ15-r.ct>~-and which I hope I have succeeded m prm-ing to be·-of an extremely one-sided and unfair nature. IV e contend that if the pro­visions o1JjC< ted to arc allowed to stand, what amounts to practically a confiscation of the proprlr_: ,l_ \ y 1nill~ v,·ill al'i; e. ",.. e .::-~sk ;noth~ng n1ore Lhan ha._. 1JC'C2t rt-'gardcd frmn tune Im­

memorial a' one of the rights of humanity­name!,-, the protection of the property and rio·hts of individuals. IY e submit that the fa;,,,t and be,,t way to give us that right is to modif, the provisions of the 13ill in the wa.y I haYe indicated. snd not to allow the oo-ope­utivc mill the rrght to acquire running rights oYer our tramlincs. If the House does not see its y,·av to acced~ to our rcque.:t in thif' rc­cpcct, then \YO respectful!~,-, but most urgently, sngg-:cat that the Bill be altered t'! safeguard J'" petitioners in the manner wh10h I haYe alreadv outlined. And I think I may be allow,__~l--withon~- lx~inf; in any \Yay consid­ered t impinge· upon the right of ~he.House by d],c('us,·ing t}u, policy or the prrnc1p.le o~ th" Rill-to poinl ont that in my clients opinion the· provi"'J sub-;oction (1) ~f clause 7 rr1irrht lh~ Pxt. nded so as to 1n.ake It apply t>J an"d inc:ILJde th. cOJAruction as wr I! as the purchase of sugar-works under the _\ct. That proyiso says~

"Provided that it shall not be lawful to 1nnchas·· nnv :<"~Igar-"\Yorks under this Act" unlc·"s or until sueh purchase has been apr)]'oved by resolution of both Houses of Parlian.._r-.·nt. ''

. 1-Lt I am asking to be pcrmitt0 d is that after the W·)rds ''to purchase," the words " m construct " should be inserted, so as to "iY' this House and'' the LevislatiYc Council dl oppvrtunitY of deciding v·hether. the co!l­"!Tud i•Jn of t< :;:;ug._·.l'-\V{)rks 1s de~rrable 1n th0 in'--rest of the councry. I do not think Hv·re is a''' thing {']c.c• I can usAully mention to th -Honse. I have attempted-and I hope scv ,;,.,sfuliv-to show that this m0asure will i1ulict on ~my dit:nts a grievous \Vrong, and :hat it will injure th<'ir property and the iEtePots of their shareholders. And if I ha' e hec•n able to .'·atisfv hon. members that an inju·,·cic ,, '"- uld be' worked by the Bill if it

ere left : s it is at proc•ent, I am sure that ha yc· don~ all th:.d-, is necess.:.ry to inducCJ

Hmue to eliminrte from it the clauses to 'vhich Ill'' cFPni'"· take exception, or, at all evPnts to so am0nd or a Iter them that my <·li. ni ,' ,,-ill be able still to continuP th~ir Lasinr,.- on fair lines-without being subjcc· ted to unfair or disastrouJ competition, and thus < m;.inue to be1wfit not onlv th0mselvn but al:-,) the sugar-\vorkers. tho sllg-ar-gro,vers, and the entire State. I have attempted to

,,;1-;al. not to the prejudices of any particular

Co-operative E;ugar [3 NovEMBER.] Works Bill. 1689

'3ection of the community, but to the reason­ing powers of all, and to that characteristic fairness which is inherent in every true Britisher, whatever his calling or po,ition in life may be. I trust my appeal may strikE, home, and that this honourable House will see fit to meet my clients' moderate demands, and allow the Bill to be amended as I have suggested. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and gentlemen, for your courte,y in listening to me, and trust that what I have said will, at all events, bP considered by the members of the House. I am confident that if it is con­sidered, it rnust \'~'ith all fair-Ininc1cd people bear cor.siderable weight. I thank you, Sir, .and \Yi'J.:..dr 1w.

J\Ir. FEEZ then withdre\v.

:'!ECOND READING.

The 'l'lU~} .. SUREH: In moving tho cecond o·eading of this Dill, I desire to voint out briC'~1y its prjnt~iple.:;, v;ithout going very ms.terially intD details, as to go intD details is contrary to the mdinary practice of the House on tho second reading of a BilL The Bill provides on the one hand for the pur­cha,;e of oxi •·ting mills after the HDuse has eo approved, and on t~e other hand for tho erection of new mills. The learned counsel who has just addre,,se-d the House has made .a request tb •tt both the mills which it is pro­posed to purchase and the mills v.-hich it is proposed to erect on the co-operative prin­~iplo should be placed unde1· the same con­ditions. Hon. members will have noticed in re<tding the Bill that under its provisions it will be• poosible for the Governm~nt to give their sanction to the er<:ctio•1 of new mills .after the usual proccclure ha': been taken by the parties interested. The learned counsel who has just addrcsc.c•d the Hou•o has re­quLsted that tbt ;hould not bo <:lone, but that the :'lmc provi·,ion should .:q1ply in the <:>nse of absolutely ne'' mills as it is proposed shall apply in connection with the acquire­ment of old mill: I confess that it clod not se~_-:m to Ine that the t\vo cases are analogous. In the> one case you have a body of pb,ple combining for the purpose of erecting a 1nill, and they know exactly what their requir:" rrenh are: and the Government, through thPir officer.-~) are in a posit,ion to sa,·. that the mill to be erected is of the very best and up­to-date t: pe, and that it will mc0t the re­quir<"mcnt, of the peo;Jle. \Yithout •vishino; to sugo;"'t tl;.1t there may be a teL:ptation on the part of those who have milling properties to sell tho,c proprrtic·o, still there is a pv­sib1c danger of t.hat. and it will be very n1uc~1 better for the House t ·1 h ,ye a final o·'lY in that matter. Provision ic, made in the ·Bill bv ,,·hich the Government are to find two­thil'ds of the morH':··, and the co-o;1emtors ·are to find one.third. It will be •tdmittc·d at o"1ce that the provisions in that particnlar re~ard aro cxceC•'lin~·ly liberal. and should help to Btimulatr·· the prodnc:ion of sugar-~ano in Queenshnd. I do not think it will be aa­mitted for one moment that we have got to the limit of tho nowc'r which '·Ye should h<tve in connection with tloc p;·oduction of cane in Queon. 1and. I.ndeed. the conditions at the pres, nt n1omcnt-and I am hound to a·dmit thcct the conditions are oome;··hat exceptional -the conditions at tho preeent moment point to the faci that there is a very much larger :Scope for tho p!·odu<::tion of sugur-cane than appeared possibl(? at a P'"l'iod not very far

back. I know it wa3 thought some little time ago that we were getting pretty well up to the limit of our requirements, in view of the fact that it was impos,iblc to export the manufactured article. It would almost appear that such conditions do not appear at the present time, and that the scope is very much larg·er than at one time wns thm1ght posJible. lion. membecs will notice that when applicants apply for the establishment of a mill, they must give in ·detail the area . of land, the rPcjuiremrnts generally o~ the n;!ll, and altogcd10r must make out the1r apphca­tion in <t way that will he absolutely on a lmsine' <, footing. And let it be remukecl at once -and I shall have something to say about that later on-that the learned coumc! 1vho addrc's.·d us laid spc< ial emphasi, on "tho corporation," but he forgot that ~he GovermYJ<.•nt are interest··d throu~·h havmg advanced monev which is not repaid; for­gettino- etfter all that "the corporation" is re1llv ~tho Government for the time being, nnd ·it is ''the corporation," and not an outsidz-c part:\T' "\1 ho have. give~ to .the~ a control which thev have m otner dnec,Jons to-dav and under other Acts which I do not think'' work hardship at all on any com­munity. The learn< d couns •] cvidr·ntly forgot that particular point. As a matter of_ fact, there exists to-dav just the <.ame power m the hands of the Go;ernmcnt in <·onnection with the railwa1 3 and other matters with regard to the acquirement o~ lands, an?- espe_cially whe:1 it is borne in mmd that thrs particular Bill make, provision for co!npensation. It doc,, not snv that von are gomg to take pos­,:::ession of c::·rtain -f:hings without yaying con:-~ ponsation. \Vlum the con1pan~ IS fanned, It will he noticed by hon. mf'mbers that a numbo" of sh;.rrs arc to repr0scnt the amount sub '.crihed. In other words, assmning·, for t~e sak•· of argument. that the cost of the mill is £90.000. the Governmr·nt have to find £60.000, and the co-oper"'tors would find .P.30 000. The Government create a trustee for the balmce of the,e shan•s_. £50.000. and c8nc credits arc to be uhbhshed. ·May I ju· t rc·mark that. in connection with. the pre­.-ion' Ad. wh10h was pas·-ecl m _1911, L cnC' crcdi'' al·o wcr<> to be establrsho_cl. H·-·rn ,,-e s.,.y that these _cane cred1ts are to b"> cc.tablished, and If! ?rder to n1nil1tain t-ho co-operatiYe pr1nz rple-£or, afte~· all. that is the p~inciple w_c are o~t after. not onl~, to cc+:~bhsh the mill, but LO

mai,1c,1 in that principle to tlw. ful_lest extent­these Cl.l1•C credits >~·ilJ CC chstnhuted ~rom tin10 to; tin1e as the mone: s con1e to han.a, ?r >~hat is rel:tiYe to the_mone;.· cm.m;. r_n m c;Jnnccti;;Yl \Yith tbe earning"! of the 1nc,nndual g-ro'. cr. I think ;t will be a~ on.::c se:n that the pronc·<:tl iF an ex<>c,·drngly f{i_n~ .an;d proner ~ne. Another point, and I thmk t~lS i,, cntir<>L' in the interests of tho com,mumty -it would he very improrcr from tne .Go­YCl'l1'11Cilt point of Yiew had the Bill p;·ov1ded for anv othc!' method of deuling w1th the .,-0 rkin-p; of the mill--provision is made t~wt the Go.-crnmcnt are to run the mill. I thmk that ill lY' a very cli·tinct advantage .. I know it is laid down that a board of c•.dv1ce mav lw for!lled corsisting of thrc.~ member~ appointed be· the Government and t>Yo mem­bers anpoint.·d b,\ the grwrers. :My D'Yn experic.ncc in connection with the running <;f mills is that generally spe:1king-and I say ;t ·advisedly-too much outside interference. lS not dc·irablc in the interest' of the m1ll.

lion. W. H. Ban7PP,.-]

1690 Co-operative Sugar [ASSEMBLY.] Works Bill.

Gcn0rally speaking, if you have a man as n.anager, it i' very much brttcr to leave him -providing he is a 'ane man-tD run the mill himscll, and not be interf<.med with from Dut­sick lion. members will further notice that provision is made for lending money for twenty-one yr,ats. Again, the tern1s there are exc-,cdingly lihJral. It is proposed th-at there shail be nD payment of principal for the first two yea!·s; that also is providod in conw•c­tion v.·ith another 1'1.1 t which we passed a few :Y•"-:trS ago. There i_,, to be payment of in­terest only for ihe fir·-t two _ cars, and after that pa.J·ment of principal. It is also further bid down that, if it. is desired, the >.::D­oporat•n·s can pay for the mill before the time sti;·tllated in the BilL I can only expr0's the ho,;: that when these co-operative mills be­c<.me an c'tablished fact. it will be found that so great i" thoir suc~,:e."s that the co-operators wi1l be able to pay off their liability to tho GoYcrnment before the full t.orm allowed by the Bill. There is anothBr provision, and it is that if thoro is any extra expenditure above the Driginal cost, then the same pro­~edure is sane thwugh-namely, the GovBrn­m~nt find ll'·o-thirds and the co-operators the other one-third. Then, another provision is made, that after the termination of thB period Df tw< c1ty-onc years-assuming that it gou to th0 full time before the total pay­ments are made to the <i-overnmcnt-it is not possible for those who are intercste·d tD pay more than 5 per cent. dividends. Might 1 saY that the great aim of tho Government has been nDt only to estaL!ish what you wDuld call ''the co-Dpe-ative principle," and what is absolutely ·'the co-operative principle" in connection with this Bill, but to sec that that principle is continutd; that there shall be no factors brought in to destroy the fmmework of thf' Bill after the pa:;·mcnts tD the Govern­m<'nt are wm·kBd Dut. BBlieving, as we do that co-operation is going to be and is to: day on-' of the remedies fDr a great deal of trouble and difficulty th'lt arioes between the grm_vcr and tly' miller-believing that, we arc anx:ous that 1t should be continued even after the mil! has been paid for I would like to make a pa,sing remark or two with rBference to some of the comments m<tde by the learned counsel. The learned gentleman laid special emphasis upon the injustice that he said was going to be dono in c<mnection with tram­ways-running rights--but that particular

class of procedure is followed t" [10.30 p.m.] day. It is no new thing. The

learned g,,ntleman seemed to anticipate that if there were two parties run nlng over a tr.amline, there would be a verv gnat deal of trouble. I quito agree that if a CDW got into the wad there would be a groat deal Df trouble and a great deal ol harm; but I Lke it that in these matters there is going to be some little common sense at any rate, and if commDn sense and " sweet rea,onablene's" arB going to be .,hown. there is no danger Df these difficulties. And then the learned counsF! seemed to think that the effect Df the Bill would be to force cane­growers out. I do not think it will have that effect at all. I think that, imtead of forcing canogrDwers out, it will brino- caneo-rowBrs in, and help VBry likely to d~velop the in­duRtry. Now, the gentlBman in question very properly-and I have no wDrd to say against tho~e who so largely have helped to develDp the industry-for they have, and I would be

[Han. W. H. Barnes.

false to my convictions if I did not readily apprecialce wha.t has been done by some corn-panics-- ·

Mr. RYAN: \Vhat companies are you re­ferring tD?

The TREASCRER: The hon. member will bo able to look down the list and find the­companie'. His keenness will enable him to do that.

:Mr. RlAN; I would like to hear you "ay the· word.

The THEASCRER: Tho hon. memLer would iiko to icad up to socc:cthing, but I a ·n not going to give him that satisfaction to-night. I do not think the Bill will hurt growers. !Jut wi;] very likely help the e;rowers; ;,nd, in addition to that, where there­are no n1ill:-:; at all run by proprietary con~ cerns or othcrvd::.e, it will surely haYe the effect of encouraging- mills to be erected there, and will have the effect likewise of dcvelopi"~ some parb of Queen,Iand that arB eminently suitable for the growth of cane; and if it docs that it will do what this Ilouse has been urging should be don from year to year--that we should get a larger 'ettleLwnt en the lando throughout the State, and it will be ad;nittell that if the Bill is. going to do that, it will be doing a very good thing for Queensland and the inhabi­t:-tnts of Qu0rnsbnd. And no\\ with regard to sonw of the cornprrniP9 then1seh·es, and ad­mitting that they ha1 e done so much to help­Quecnsla.nd, I do not hesitate to say that some of this Iea-islation is cauucd because· son1e of th,-, cmnpanies have not done a fair thing by the grower. And can it be wondered at, if the growers think they are not getting a fair deal, that they should seek other means­by which to get it? I know that some of the profits which hen. members sneak of may be mythical when you get to bedrock. and I have nothing to say against those people who have donro so much to help doyc]op Queens­land, beyond saying that perchance some of them have not realised the difficulties of the grower as they might have done, and the outco1ne has bLcn to create u feeling of un­easin0ss in tlw mind of the grower. And in connection with some other indu•tries as well a& in connection with the sugar industry, some of the proprietary concerns may haYe to give way to the needs of t!w State and the altered cond:tions of th0 State. It mtbt never be forgotten that the dai:ns of the country are gr< ater than the claims of individuals.

?1Ir. FoLE1 : Arc you beginning to realise tint now?

The TRE_\SlJRER; We have always recog­nised that on the Liberal side of the House, nnd we have hoped that members Dn the other sich at the same time will trv to follow our !Bad. Mr. Fcez, the loarne.d 'cmnsel, spoke abDut pioneers; and the pion< c-rs-~no matter \vhethe:- it is in connf'ction \vith the sugar industry or the dairying industry, or in connection v':t.h any other industry-have done good work in Queensland. TakB some of the pioneers in the huttcr industry--

Mr. LENNON: Or in Dunwich.

The TREASURER : Or in Dunwich. There are some goDd men in Dunwich. Ta.ke, if YDU will, the pioneBrs in the butter industry. They had to give way. Whv? Because the

Go-operative Sugar [3 NOVEMBER.] Works Bill. 1691'

co-operative movement has come along, and some of the pr0prietary concerns- as far as I can gathee--find themscl vcs «t the present nlom~:~nt in vt~ry great difficulty in compariEon with ro-opcrativ<O concerns. And surely, if men think that l'Y combining in any par­ticu!ur 1nduQtr) tlh y arp going to get out of that industo·y tho bc,;t that is in it, we should not for one moment prcYent them, and I think thB principle- is one that will be extended -to oth0r thing~. \Yhv, ~o1ne of the 1nost suc­cc;si'ul husinesseo in the world to-day-apart alto['>th(·r frc n the , ugar or the dairy:ng indu:,tric',-- If(' hPlng run on the <.:a-operative principle, and T bPlievc that with the evolu­tion of time G shall have a change. And I content! tLat if jt is necf'~:3arv so to do in connt·ction ~rith the sugar indu,'try, it will be ''"ise fo:- us to rnon~ with the t!rnr-s and n1ake the rnovision wi1ich is being asked for by the [!1'0\\·erc', and I h{l vo t.hcrcfore Yf'ry much pleasure in moving 7he s<'cond reading of this Bill.

Mr. O'S'GLLIVAl\:' (Iiu,ncdy): I b0g to move t1''lt the del ate be now adjourned.

Quccotion----That the d"l- ate he now ad­journed--put; and the Hou'il di.-ided :-

AYES, 24. llir. Adamson

, Barber Bertram Bowman

, Fihelly Foley GildaY Giiiirs Hamilton Hardacre Hunter Huxham

TellerN: ~r. Bertram

l\Ir. Kirwan ,. Land , Larcornbe

LPnnon , May ,, McCormack

o·~ullivan , Payne , Philp , Ryan

Thpodore Winstanley

and Mr . .Larcombe.

NoEs, 29; llir. Appel

ArchC'r , Barnes, G. P. ,, Barnes, l,'\T. H.

Bell Blair BockC'r

,, Bridges Caine Cor:;.er, B. IT.

, Corser. E. B. C. ., Grayson

Gnnn , Hodge

Kc•"·'II

'llr. Luke , ::nnrkay , lfr,,,~rossn.n

, ~\forgan ., Pn,et ,, 1\·trie

Lic·ltt.-(\ll Rankin Yr. l'cdwri:s

St1'H'llS

~~}·~·.~~~·:' , Yo,Yh•s

White \Villiams

Teller-' ;\Ir. B. H. Corser and 1Ir. Vowles.

PATH.

A;, c-}Ir. :\Iurphy. No-:\Ir. Denham.

ResolYcd in the negative.

Ho:-~. R. PHILP : I harrliv think a Bill like this .hould be rushed through at this time of the eve'Iing.

OPPOSITION MEMBERS : Hear, hear !

Ho~. R. PHILP : Thi; is one of the most important Bills that has ever been before this House, and I think it ought to be discussed

by ali 'ides and in all its bearing,., and I do not think the House should be asked to pas,; the ~econd reading to-night.

The TRBISURER: There is no intention of rushing it through.

Ho;-.;. R. PHILP: I am sure tho second readiEg \vill be passed, but there are a num her of aspects to be considered. 1.\I o one could advocate the sugar industry m0re than I h,ve do':o in this House. \Vhen I was a Minister I crcded most of the mills that were 1, tilt under the li1:ot Sugar vVorks Guarantee Act, but I never advocated tho erection of a mill in oppocition to a mill already in f'xi ,t~-nc0, c~pceially v:ith Governn1ent money. )d! the mills ended up to the present hav<>· been erected in places '\vhere no other mill ''as in Pxisten''~; but now the Gover~ment propose, I under&tand, to find mouey to build mills alan :,oide other mills, and thev further r,-ropose t 1 give th:' co-operative i'nil!s ad­vantages ,,-hich the private mills will not have. They pr.Jpose to g-ive them -running right' over the tramwa~ s of the private milb, but they do not propose to gi vo the private !nills sirnila1: running rights over the tramways belonging to the co-operative mills. That is most unfair. If there is to be com­fl''tition, they should comvete on equal terms, and then there would not bt the same objec­tion. I would like to see co-operation ex­t<>nded in •1 hundred different ways, but I do net think ~,ve a:t·e justifk•d in starting any businc3s in direct opposition to a business­now in existence. So far as I ean sec, the Bill will ['ass its b2Cond n·ading, but let us dc.:tl out justice to the people "·ho have really 1nade- the sugar industr:·, because wo must n.nember that the pioneers of th,, irtdustry arc the men who put up tho first mills. People do not grow cane anywhere unless there is t4'0ing to be a mill erected, or pro­mised to be erected, and I know of my own kno"ledge that all the mills in Queensland· are not making money to-day. Some are making l'noney, but others are not; and it would be far betLr, if the Government find a mill is not doing j ustiec to the growers, to buy that mill cut and hand it over to a co­C!"""ltin' company. But 1£ you are going to start a mill alongside another and advance two-thirds of the money, and at the same time give advantag"s which you deny to the competitors of the co-o;:wrative mill, then l 'a v it is most unfair. I would like to see co:operation made general in Qmensland, but not on these terms. It will be most ,,Lfair right at !lv' end of the session to rush a Bill like this through without any debate at all. We heard couns·"l for the mill­o \vncrs make a very l~tcid f'perch, and we want an opprortunity to consider what he said, I c;uik "i;'reP with the Treasurer when he s'" s that he believes in co-operation. The hon. c-c:nt].,man spoke of the co-operative butter· factorie3, but I would point out that, when tho~e L'om 1lanies entered into CDJnpetition with prqJdctary eornpanks. they found all the money themselves and did not get Go­H'rnmcnt money to g-ive them a start. There­would be no ground for complaint if th<>se co-operative companies were finding the money themselvc''- I am quite certain the Trea<urcr will not agree to allow a co-opera­tive company to start in opposition to one of the Govel'nmont mills. When we were con­sidf'ring the Can0 Price Boards Bill last session, the hon. gentleman said he v.-ould not allow any can<' price board to fix the price of cane in connection with any Govern­ment mill, and J do not think hr> will let

Han. R. Philp.]

'1692 Co-operative Sugar Works Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

any company start a mill in opposition to any of the mills now in his hands. If he did permit such a thing he would be most foolish. I hopn that in Committee justice will be done to th<o [Foople now in the businees. They have b•·Pn the real pioneers of tho industry. _Some forty-five. years ago they started grow-

_omg sul'ar-c::me m Queen-land, and they manu­facture.] the sugar in mills of a most primi­tive char a :tor. I remember a man at Doughboy Creek v ho started a horse mill. :r'ha t no: n has now one of the largc;t mills In Queen hnd, and he has onlv done \\hat -other.; could ha vc dor.' if the~- h:cd made propc~r li::-e of their opportunitie' 'l'he hardest part of the busi.lco::s ia that wme mills do net m·:n an aero of land. They bought a h:~ of land, l:nt ihev sold it to their tenants, ~ornctirnes at lr" _;s than cost priri, ; and thcv ne now in the position that they are ent·rcly dependent for their s::Ippliec of ·cane upon ihe fnrmers, and unless they liad <lone a fair thing bv them 'r do not believe those millers could· have got on at all. I

. have no brief for any millo,; ncr. I am not "n agent fol' th" Colonial Sugar Refining .Company or any oth"r COlniJanv. I pre­sented their petition as a memher of Par­lianlEmt, because I Lelicv0 in ovorvone gettinrr ~air plav. The first mill erc·ctcd in the Isrs S"rnb was thP Doolbi Mill, which was put up by the J\1illaquiu Sugar Com­pany. \Vhen the mill was erected .:ou could have bou·:;ht land in that localitv for £1 an .acre. · "

Mr. BooKER: It was sold for <£1 an acre.

HoN. R PHILP: Some of that land is now wo~th .£40 an acre. Those pioneers, at all <'V(·ncs, have enhanced the value of the la1_1d. It is th·' same at Bundaberg. The Mrllaaum hctory could have bought land in the \Voongarra scrub for £1 an acre,

At eleven mi1mtes to 11 o'clock, the SPEAKER c cllcd upon :\-Ir. Gunn, the hon. :mo1nbx~r for Carnarvon, to relieve him in tho chair.

\Vhc rcunon :\h. · ·Gr:-;::-; took the chair .accordingly.

HoN. R. PHILP: The mill enhanced the value of that !_and thirty or forty-fold and :urelc· rs dc:scrvmg of some consideration. Is the sug-ar mdue;try not an industrv that we ought to. be proud of? Here in Queensland we

, are gottmg sugar for something like £8 or £10 P<'r ton cheaper than it is in any other part of tho wo;·ld, because we make sugar herc. It rs keepmg tho~F,1nds of men in good em­plo:yr:rent. Why rs Queensland in a better posrtwn than any of the other State~? Be­came there are these men working in thu ':mefields and sugar-mills, and there is no ot~er State in Australia can say the same th1ng. The sugar-~,,-orkers of Qu00nsland are, ~"Thaps,

1hetter off than any other workers

m QI_wens,,md to-day. I do not know of anv unslnll<>d labourer being as well paid as the ;;;Pn ":ho cut cane in Queensland to-day. "- lwre JS never any trouble now to get men to cut cane at a fair price. Everybody in Qv,•rnsl:·~~d o~1p-ht to b~· proud +hat. v;c ha~~e the grf·.tt "'gar m?ustry, and it is throu1rh the fff'?rh of the pwneers that the sugar industrv 1s m as good a position as it is to-dav. The :'h:o:ar \Vork_s Guarantee Act wa' a splendid !-hmg-, and rt has bePn carried out exce"d­mg-ly ';>ell on the whole. All the mills have not pmd, but the bulk of them have been a ~plendid thing for Queensland. If the present

rHon. R. Philp,

mills were being brought on the same terms as the old mills, I would not object to the Bill, but I do object to the Government bringing in a Bill, finding two-thirds of the money, and starting a mill alongside another mill, and giving the new man a preference over the old man. ·when the Treasurer thinks the matter out, I am sure he will see that the old mills should be put in the same position as the new mills, so far as tramways are concerned. I warn the GovernmPnt that they are establishing a very dangerous precedent. They are starting to use the State money to Pnter into competition with people who have imested their own monev. I hope the Trea­surer will try and do a fair thing with this Bill. I think he is doing an unfair thing at the present time in sbrting in opposition to

neon I he,ve m(mtioned.

Mr. HYAN: You think the Treasurer is un· fair?

HoN. R. PHILP: Yes, if he allows the new mills to use the tram" ays of the old mills, and docs not in return allow the old mills to m;e the tramways of the new mills. If a new mill is started in a district where there is no mill, it is a yery good thing; but if you start a mill alongside one whiuh is existing now, one of them must go to tho walL Besides, some of the present mills are very old. and would not be able to compete with the new mills, and, in justice to these people, if you wish to buy the land about that mill, you ought tu buv the old mill out. Tlwre would not be much risk. The Government are taking all the precautions possib\e; they say it must come before this Hm1sc and the other House, lf that was done, and the ne" mills confined t:J ne\v districts, then, as far as I am con~ c.;rnod,I would not oppose the Bill.

Thr: TREASURER: By leave of the House, I would like to make an explanation.

HONOURABLE MEiiiBERS : Hear, hear ! The TREASURER: A few minutes ago, be·

fore the hem. member for Townsville spoke, I intimated to tho Houst' tiLt I was not prc·pared to adjourn. In division, it was sug­gested by an hem. member on the other side that the PrPmier had made a promise that an adjourn:mcnt \voulrl takP place after the 'econci reading was mon;d, After perusing "Hansard," f have found that that promise was made by the Premier: and, that being so, it s<;ems to me that~\' hiht I personally feel ihat tlw d.,;- has been largely wasted-I should have in:o:iF'.ed on r-oinq- on-but seeing the promise was made·, it is my clear duty to

10ur that promise.

:\-1r. McCORJ\lACK : move the adjourn· mont of the debate.

()npsf·ion put and passed.

The resumption of the debate was made an Order of the Day for to-morrow.

ADJOl'RX::\IE::\T.

The TREASURER: I move tlw House do now adjourn. Afh;r the Appropriation Bill, and the Committee shge of the Longreach School of Arts Bill, we will continue the second reading of the debate on the Co-opera­tive Sur;ar Works BilL After that we will ~nkP the Committee stage of the Fish and Oyster Bill.

Qm-,tion put and passed.

The House ndjourned at 11 o'clock.