Commission d'enqulto sur IH ,.l•tlons entr9 /H Auroc:ltrones otcHtlllM nrvkfts publics

Québec::

Statutorv Declaration

1, -DOB1988-

Story recorded on the (2018-07-04) at (by phone).

1 do solemnly declare that,

Consent form read and filled in on the phone. lt's recorded in the statement on: (2018-07-04). She wants to

remain ANONYMOUS.

1st STORY

Ql : Year of the event, when happened the event?

Al : Weil, since 1 have a few, because l'm a witness for two situations, but 1 will start with the underage one.

That was in-between march 2016 to early may 2016 that these events happened.

Q2 : Okay, for the underage one?

A2 : Yes. Do 1 say his name or ... ?

Q3 : No, you don't have to say the name, it's okay. If you want to share the name after, by giving your

statement, it's okay, it's going to be anonymous. lt's very confidential. We don't share the information, so

don't be shy, and it's going to be hidden after.

A3 : l'm just worried that 1 mlght get confused if 1 don't say his name while l'm explainlng what happened.

Q4 : No it's fine, don't worry. No problem.

A4: lt's okay? 1'11 just say his first na me. So, at the time- that's his name, he was ln foster care, he

spent a lot of time with us here at our house. Me and my spouse we were working at- he is a

my husband. He would feel safe here and he was always hanging around, you know,

just ... Comfortable, 1 guess, right? And he had just been recently allowed to go live with his grandparents after

Declarer signature ---------------------------­Declared before me, -----------------------------

Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certalns�ices publics

Signature du déclarant : ...b,:1.....:...=��L Date : J.v Ill � Cl' Y -

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Commission d'enqu�te sur les relations entre les Autochtones etcert.:alns services publia

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the assault. He was moved to the foster home of another community member, a community worker. She

worked at Youth Protection and she was giving him a really hard time. He wasn't coming home for supper,

because he was coming here. So 1 thought, 1 would go and speak to her at Youth Protection just to let her

know that you don't need to make him supper, he's a very picky kid anyway. [He is]- he's just

helping himself to our fridge anyway so just to let her know so we can have an open form of communication.

She was kind of annoyed with me, and she was like complaining that she had to throw out the meal that she

was cocklng for him and kind of being dramatic a bit about it? Anëfl just went in to open up that lane of

communication with the three of us, right? Like me and my partner and this woman,

- So, he was having such horrible time there. He called me one night, maybe about 8 o'clock at night. 1

can't find the date or any of the time for work for the exact date of it, but he told me he was assaulted by her,

in the house. And he was very panicky he said: "Come pick me up, corne pick me up, 1 need to be picked up".

And he said she was pushing him and she hurt him and 1 rushed over there to pick him up and 1 was waiting

outside their house for quite some time and 1 finally got a hold of him and he said he was at the hospital and

the police had to intervene and he was getting photograph of the bruises on his body and the other injuries

that he had and to corne get him later or he would walk because we're very close to the hospital. Once he got

liiiiik h 1 1 d t me what happened, that he was pushed. His other Youth Protectlon's worker,

was there too, that witnessed this as well. l don't know. The next day, 1 went into

Youth Protection and 1 asked for him. 1 said that 1 have an extra room, we're going to take him now because

this is enough. So , l've taken teens at risk, teens before in our home in foster

care. He's already here anyway, so it works out. And because of what happened, 1 didn't want it to happen

again. 1 spoke to bout this.

QS : Who i

AS : She was th�of Youth Protection at the time. Her reaction was to invite-into the

office with me. Whlch 1 felt was extremely inapproprlate since she is not his worker and that she had just

assaulted him the night before.-began talking about how she had made up her mind and is putting

- in the bush program. And it was almost like a form of discipline the way she was speaking aboutit.

And 1 was absolutely disgusted that this is supposed to be something that's healing, it's not used as to punish

a child like that. And 1 explained, like, he's very at risk, if you take him away from school right now, he won't

go back. Me and- we want him, we're going to take him. And they said that his brother was going too.

And we said we could take his brother as well, until you find him a more permanent space for his brother.

And everything was dismissed, they didn't write anything down, they wanted me out of the office to, 1 guess,

kind of cover their tracks if someone had corne forward to ask for-for in foster care. So, -told me he was being sent there for a month and it was a long month. He messaged me when he came back

and told me that ...

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Q6: ln the bush program?

A6: Yes, so when he came back he told me and-that Youth Protection arranged for a ride for them ta

get back because they brought them out there and when the ride arrived-.,ad told the worker: "Vou

are not to pick u�because he has aged out of the system". Almost like a final disciplinary ... 1 don't

know what is wlth her, but it was like another way to attack him. And the eider that they were staying with

them, 1 don't know who it is, he had to lntervene and he got mad at the worker and said: "Vou are taking him,

you don't leave a chi Id out here". Vou know, he aged out, maybe a few days before, and they deliberately did

that in order to punish him. And du ring this whole time, she was still working. 1 don't understand. If 1 assault a

client in my line of work, 1 am flred, or 1 am suspended. So, right now, we're speaking t�me and

my partner, and we're talking to him about how l've put in my witness report on that and that if he feels

comfortable that we would be with him if he wants to talk to someone. He did express that he was interested

in saying his side, because the other thing that he was talking about was, he said that the officer that was

following the case lost the file and that's why it was not done in court:

Q7: So the file was lest?

A7: That's from my understanding. He would have to confirm that because l've never spoken ta any of the

police officers in this whole situation, you know? My role is just talking to-nd-and­herself agaln. The way that they handled everythlng feels very hatred and petty like they were trying ta get

back at him. 1 don't know for what. But we reached out.

Q8 : If 1 understand and want ta resume, something happened. He was assaulted by

he went ta the hospital and he made a complaint?

AS: Yes.

Q9 : And then that file was lost.

nd

A9 : Yes. The officer that dld it was but you wlll have to confirm with him because 1 did not

talk with the officers you know, but that was the officer who kind of messed up on everything.

QlO :-ou sald?

A10: Yes.

Qll : 1 think it could be a good thing that

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shares his story also. Yes, 1 think so.

Commission d�eJlquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certains services publics

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All : We don't want to pressure him, but l've told him, l've explained him how 1 talked t

today and 1 told her you know, and l'm not an anonymous and unless you want to go and you know ... I reassured him that this is no pressure and if you don't say anything; then nothing happens. Vou know? So

how can we do it? Do 1 give him your number?

Q12 : Yes, you can give him my number.

A12 : 1 don't think he has a phone. 1 think he has to call through my phone or even with another community

member.

Q13 : Yes, and he can also call the toll-free number. lt's going to ring here at our reception, but there's an

answering machine which is completely confidential. So when he wants to be called back he can ask

GENEVIÈVE COLLARD in his case speciflcally and then l'm going cati him back and l'm going to make another

intake as l'm doing with you and l'm going to put the two intakes in the same file. Just to be sure there's no

details missing and everything like that. And as 1 said, we are going to totally hide his identity.

A13 : So it will be anonymous too?

Q14 : Yes, yes. The only way is that if you want to be known, is to ask the court to give a permission, but it is

kind of difficult sometimes, but it's the only way. So by law, it is an obligation for us to hide the identity.

A14 : Yes, 1 think he'll be okay knowing that. 1 think it was part of the reason why he didn't want to say

anything, because maybe he didn't want anyone to know, it was a really hard time in hîs lîfe.

QlS : Yes, sometimes it's very dîffîcult times. Know that l'm used to work, for example, 1 went to

and and l'�so l'm able to work with them. And a

lot of people had concern about the fact that they might be related to some of the stories, even if lt's

anonymous, but we really hide a lot of details in the staries. For example, if a person says 1 went to

- we hide the name of- because there's not a lot of - in communitîes. lt's

just an example. So some people really want to hide information and we totally respect that.

AlS : Okay. Great.

Q16: So 1 have also some questions in his Youth Protection's file, do you know if there's any report related to

that situation, that he was assaulted by

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Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certains services publics

Commin/on d'.nqulte sur les relations entre l•s Autochtones et c•rtlllns services publics

Québec:: Al6 : 1 thlnk that when 1 spoke wit�she wasn't taking notes. She wasn't writing anything. 1 don't

know if she took any record of me asking like...that. 1 have my partner- because he knew 1 was golng in

there and to tell them that-was staying at, well, was going to be at our house quite a bit. So, he has

knowledge, like, he dropped me off. 1 was pregnant with my son when that happened and 1 wasn't working so

he had to drop me off at Youth Protection those two times.

017: lnstead o�an�here's no wltness of your conversation there?

A17: No.

Q1B: Also do you know if they tried to speak with-afterward? After that event?

A18 : Who tried to ... ? Sorry.

Q19 : The Youth Protection. Did they try to confirm that he was assaulted? Did they try to make an

intervention, an emergency intervention?

A19 : 1 don't think they did, 1 think they just placed him out in the bush.

Q20: And how much time after the event that they sent him in the bush? Do you know?

A20: How much time was he in the bush?

021: No, 1 mean, after the event, you've been in the office of Youth Protection. How long dld they wait

before they sent - in the bush program?

A21 : 1 think it was about a week, a week and a hait, because 1 remember him talking a lot about it, about how

upset he was that he was golng and that did take a lot of time they took to send hlm away. He was in another

foster home after that.

Q22: Do you have any other details or information that you want to share?

A22: That's it. That's the only stuff 1 have left

023 : Do you have any recommendations if you'd have to change something in that specific situation, what

would it be?

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A23 : 1 think she should be fired. 1 can't believe that a community..worker can do that to a kid and then still

work there. like, 1 could never do that. If 1 was working in somewhere where someone was reliant on me, and

they breached that trust like that ... To me, it seems like they just acted like they went to business as usual

they didn't do anything else regarding it. They just acted like okay, well, you know. Continue on. like it

doesn't make sense. l'm shocked that she was still allowed te work there.

Q24 : Did she still work there now?

A24: Yes. She's working there. She actually was promoted recently. 1 saw the promotion notice and that's

why 1 was shocked, 1 thought she was not there anymore.

Q25 : 1 have another question. About-and-1 think-you said, right?

A25 yes.

Q26: Did those person are Cree also or are they white people?

A26: is not native. But she was married to a 1 think. l'm net sure

Q27 : And 1 was just wondering, because 1 ask that kind of question a lot. Do you think that the fact that being

native lmpacted on the way that they treated the file?

A27 : 1 felt like they were just discriminating him, because he's from a mother that has a lot, a lot of children

and she has a lot of them ta king out of for care and 1 felt like they were discriminating him, they were telling

me that he's not prepared for life and he's a bad apple kind of attitude and they were telling me that the

bush was going to be good for him so he has tools for life and 1 told them, his grandfather is very

knowledgeable in the woods so, you know, 1 don't understand why, he doesn't have to go to the bush, he's

got a grandparent. And they were still [saying) no, no. We know what we're doing kind of. 1 felt like they were

beating me down to not take him. Trying very hard to get me to back off. And just, no.

Q28 : So they tried to convince you to let down the ... ?

A28: Yes.

Q29: Di�rop off school or ... ?

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Québec:: A29: Yes, he's not in school anymore. 1 told them that this would happen, just, his momentum ... they're like

just went to nothing after the going to the bushes.

Q30 : Do you know how he felt about after that event?

A30 : When he was coming back?

Q31: Ves.

A31 : He was really mad that they tried to leave him out there. That- tried that hard ta punish him

somel1ow, you know?

Q32: Ves. Sc his trust was broken?

A32 : Yes. Forever.

Q33 : Oid you see difference in his behavior after?

A33: He didn't want to go to school, he was always lnside. 1 know that he wasn't talking to hls friends very

much too, because some of his friends were telling me that he doesn't want to do anything he just wants to

lay around and ... like ... r think he felt really shattered by it, that he was too ... He's a guy, he doesn't want to

say it. 1 know it's a change in him, it took him a while to klnda corne around again. Because it's only recently

that he's started coming back to see us like after that happened, he didn't really ... And like, we had a good

relationship with hlm, like, me and my partner. 1 don't ... For him to just kind of walk away from a lot of people

you know, like lt was very strange to see that happens.

Q34 : lt is sad. So 1 think 1 have all the details, do you have anything to add for that story?

A34: For that? No. 1'11 talk to him about like ... put this in and not pressure him to say something, but just give

him the information if he wants to say something we can totally help you, you know, and even if it's just walk

himself in a room and use one of our phone and take his time, you know, that we can provide him at least.

Q35: If he wants to make it with you by his side, that's okay.

A35: Okay.

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Q36 : We can do that on the phone, for example. Vou can be with hlm and he can talk wlth me on the phone, it's totally, okay. Now, l'm golng to pass to the other, you said that you have maybe one(l), two(2), three{3)

or four(4) stories, different staries?

A36: Ves.

Q37 : Vou can talk about that other.

2ndSTORY

A37 : The other one is, l'm just going to do these two witness ones, so 1 got the first witness, this is another

witness one now. You're going to be speaking to my husband anyway tomorrow, 1 think. So he's going to be

telling you the story, but 1'11 give my witness part right now.

Q38 : No problem. When was it?

A38 : lt was in 2015. Maybe 1 can't find the right date, but it was 2015. My partner

and 1 like, we were going through kind of a rough time and he had a bit of an anger issue due to the fact that he works so hard in Social Services and there's no debriefing and anything like that. l'm not justifying it, but it was a bit like domestic violence and he was also like, breaking thlngs in the house, llke durlng hls outburst

and one night, 1 called the cops just to have him removed and the cop that came in wa and

he too�and he asked me if 1 wanted to press charges and 1 said: "I don't know. 1 don't know". He just

been to his mom, and he said he couldn't do that and 1 said: "Wow. 1 don't know". He said he'd corne back in half an hour to confirm. They tao� into the truck there and just drove away. 1 didn't hear him read like Miranda rights, he put him handcuffs, but he didn't read him any Miranda rights or anything. And 1 waited for

him to come back and l've never charged him for any of that kind of stuff before so 1 was not going to. 1 waited for the cop to corne back and nothing happened. So, 1 called and they said they were busy and it was a

woman that answered, 1 don't know who it was, but they said they were having busy calls for that. So 1 waited and, fourteen (14) hours later, 1 called them and 1 kept calling in, ïKept calling it and asking "Where's­and can you release him ?" and they were like saying no that they couldn't and 1 was saying "I didn't want to charge him and like if you release him ?". "No, you have to wait for- and 1 sa id 1 don't believe .. that ...

-you know .... lt was just, every hours calling and finally, fourteen(14) hours after he got arrested, a round 6:00 in the morning, 1 threatened to take them to court, that 1 would get a lawyer if they dîdn't

release him now. Because like they didn't, 1 said 1 don't even want to charge him, you can't do this, no one took pictures of my bruises, no one came back to follow up with me, you know what 1 mean, l'm not even, 1 wasn't even hurt. No one took pictures of the house because it was ail crazy after he had an outburst. So they finally released him after fourteen (14) hours. And he came home and he said that he wasn't fed, he wasn't

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Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certains services publics

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given toilet paper to go to the washroom, and he was ignored for the entire time. He was screaming to be let out and everyone was ignoring him. l've never seen such mistreatment like that, you know?

Q39 : So the police officers at the police station they just maintained him in the office by ignorlng him and

they didn't really answer your phone calls, they just sa id that. ..

A39 : No, they sa id : 11You have to wait for-you have to walt for the arresting officer, he's the one, he's the one". 1 spoke to one and she sald that she Just came on shift and she had no idea what was

happening, like she was like: "I don't know, l'm sorry, 1 just got on and no one told me anything about him". 1

guess they just locked him up and forgot about hlm.

Q40 : Do you know how many people you spoke with during those fourteen(14) hours? How many offlcers?

A40: How many different people? Maybe four (4)? Four {4) different. The one 1 called in the morning to ask if he was coming and she told me they were busy- and th en 1 spoke to a man, 1 don't know who it was,

and then 1 spoke to another woman. So three (3), but 1 also spoke t� in the morning like when he took him.

Q41: So four (4). ln total four (4).

A41 : Four(4) police officers 1 interacted with.

Q42 : And no one gave you any specific answer

A42 : No one gave me anything. And- like he said he was in there and yelling and like trying to get their attention and everyone was ignoring him in there, and he even screamed: "I have to go to the washroom, 1 need toilet paper". And no one was giving him anything.

Q43: So he didn't either eat or go to washroom, he was ignored.

A43 : 1 don't know why they took hlm, but they can't .•. 1 don't know. They need my approval, don't they? To

charge him Uke? Or they need to start the file, at least? Like they are going to do it against my will, like they didn't take plctures, they didn't take a statement from me, they didn't take pictures of the house, they just ...

took him and left. Like, it was a very fast talk 1 had with him, he was there maybe ten (10) minutes, fifteen (15)? And he left.

Q44 : And once you called there in the morning, so you said that at 6:00 A.M., 1 think?

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Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre fes Autochtones et certains services publics

Commission d'enquëte sur les relatlons entre les Autochtones et certains services publia

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A44 : Around 6:00 in the morning he was arrested, and around 8:00 1 called in and asked them where is [he],

can 1 hav�back? And they said l'm sorry we are too busy. First call.

Q45 : And then you said that you were going to call a lawyer and ...

A45 : That one, it was sixteen(16) hours later so ... Or fourteen (14) hours later, sorry. 6 o'clock, about 8:00 at

night.

Q46 : And then, they released-A46 : Yes, when 1 threaten them and pointed out no one took pictures of me, no one took pictures of the

house, no one took a statement from me, no one even read him Miranda Rights. Release him now or l'm

going ta get a lawver.

Q47 : And then, did you try to make any complaints to that specific police station or someone at the head

office, 1 don't know, or ... Did you try to get any information on how to proceed?

A47 :-was a bit worried that it was going to affect him in his job because he's a and

here he is, assaulting his spouse at home, you know? like domestic violence. So, he was a bit ashamed to say

anything about it.

Q48 : Okay. 1 understand. He was kind of caught in that situation.

A48 : Yes.

Q49 : So never the police offlcers tried to say that we made a mlstake and we are sorry, or anything llke that?

A49 : No, it was a few months later that they were called to remove him again, nothing bad, 1 just wanted him

gone. And the arresting officer coming in was- And 1 said 1 don't want you here, to him. And 1 kind of

raised my voice at him and 1 said 1 don't agree with your tactics and 1 don't want you here, 1 want you out, you

know, 1'11 talk to, 1 think it wa�aunt, the police officer. And he said he wasn't leaving because he

can't leave his partner. But he said it in a very kind of disrespectful tone, like: "l'm not leaving her" [imitating

the officer]. Vou know, kind of thing. Like, if he had just said it like 1 can't leave my partner, you know? But no.

He had to say it in a rude way. He didn't even apologize.

QSO : 1 was wondering, have you ever heard about other situations like that in the community?

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Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certains services publics

Commlnlon d'enqu�te sur l�s nûttlons •nfn les Autochtones et cerûllns services publics

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ASO: Being arrested without Miranda rights?

QSl: Yes, or being maintained against their will, for example?

ASl : The only tlme l've heard about someone being locked up and being neglected wa�uncle,

When he was put in jail and he died in that jail cell here. That's the only time l've heard

of someone being locked up to the point where they're neglected that much.

QS2 : When was it? Just a curiosity question.

AS2 : For-1 think it was ... lt must have been 2012. But it wasn't the same officers. 1 have no idea

which police officers were working at that time.

Q53: Okay, so it's not so far. 1 thought it was maybe in 1980.

A53 : No, it was just recently. With-his uncle. l've never heard anyone else. Maybe-aunt?

Because you know, he's talked about it with selected people, because he doesn't want too many people

knowing like, his issues, but maybe he knows more. He'll probably tell you tomorrow.

Q54 : Great. 1 understand. Do you have any, more information about that second story?

AS4 : 1 don't think of anything else�robably has more to say.

QSS : And, do you have any other recommendations, l'm going to ask you ail the time. Do you have any

recommendations or expectations for that speclfic story?

ASS : 1 already heard that he doesn't work for the Eenou police anymore. 1 don't know what people can do, in

a situation when they leave work. 1 think he knew that there was a lot of cases that he was, you know, not

giving what he should be. So 1 don't know, 1 would say like for him to be like go, or you know, like ..• But he's

already gone. From my knowledge. 1 think he should have it on his record though, so like future employees

know that he's, you know, kind of a loose can, [something] llke that.

QS6 : The police officer you mean?

A56: Yes.

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QS7

A57: Pardon?

Q58: You said that

ASS: Yes.

Q59 : So he's not working anymore at the police station?

A59 : From my knowledge.

Q60 : Okay. So maybe having an employee file, a record of that kind of situation for the next employer for

example?

A60 : Yes, that would be good. Just so people are aware, you know. Keep an eye on him, you know. Hum, are

you working like all night or ... ?

Q61 : No, l stayed longer for your statement, so after we finish l'm going to leave. Vou have something to do?

A61 : My son is just freaking out.

Q62 : Maybe we can talk later, 1 can maybe try to call you tomorrow?

A62 : Yes, you can call me in the morning at 9:00.

Q63 : ln the morning? l'm going to look at my schedule, but l'm going to let you know when l'm going to be

available.

A63 : Vou can text me. To let me know at what time.

Q64: l'm going to leave you to your son, so we're going te continue tomorrow.

A64 : Alright. The other ones are very short.

Q65 : Alright, bye bye.

A65: Bye.

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Commission d'enquête sur les relations entre les Autochtones et certains servic�s 1J4bllcs