D I A L O G U EO N G O L F

The pioneer of sports marketing, a fatheragain at 67, reflects on the life of a salesman

M a r kM c C o r m a c k

he founder, chairman and CEO of the sports and entertainment comglomerate known as IMG (International Management Group), has atvarious times been friend of Arnold Palmer, best'selling author, TVannouncer, world traveler, U.S. Open competitor, tennis husband, Tiger

chaser and agent to the Pope. Mark McCormack is a man who does not sleep,his wife once said, but who "achieves rest."

T

jMcCormack's professional life is inextricably en-twined with Arnie's. Before the pair hooked up in1960 with a handshake agreement that has becomelegendary, young Palmer had an endorsement dealwith Heinz chat earned him $500 a year (and freeketchup) and McCormack was just another lawyer ina suit. Today, decades past his peak, 68'year'oldArnie is still one of the highest-paid athletes in theworld (Forbes estimates his 1997 income at $16.1million). And IMG is a billion-dolkir empire that employs 2,000 people in 71 offices in 30 countries; thatmanages the careers of 700 stars, including golfers,tennis players, fashion models, musicians, divas, businessmen, broadcasters and writers; and that also hasits many tentacles wrapped firmly around event management, television production and distribution,licensing and real estate. If anyone can still find workfor Bob Dole or fix up a deal for Mikhail Gorbachevto endorse Pizza Hut. McCormack can.

In two lengthy sessions at the end of 1997, SeniorEditor John Barton interfieiced McCormack at his

sumptuous home—on McCormack Place—in Isle-worth, the exclusive gated golf community in ( hlundothat also houses Tiger Woods, Mark O'Kfeara andMichael Jordan. It's a couple of miles jmm Iho' Hill,where Amie lives. McCormack occa.sionally gets in hi.-;boat and rides across the waters to sec his <>IJ chum.

McCormack shares the house with his second u'lje.former tennis star—and IMG clierii—Betsy .\agL'l-sen. With a roaring fire in the library, the /lousefestooned with Christmas decoration.s. and the birth o/their first baby together just one day tiu\iy. there icasan air of festivity to the proceedings iMaggic McCormack was bom on Dec. 13, 1997 at the Arnold l\ilmerHospital in Orlando).

In the second session, McCormack could hardly sitstill, forever getting up to find various pieces of evidence: a photo of him in London with lom C.ritise iindNicole Kidman; his medal for being a leading i/unli/ierfor the 1958 U.S. Open; the latest IMC com/nniv report. In other word.s, he was expertly doing what he'sdone all his life: He was selling himselj.

June 1998 GOLF DIGEST 203

The McCormack Fi leGOLF D IGEST: S ince we a re j us t a f ewhundred yards from his house, let's startwith Tiger Woods. You've seen a lot ofathletes come and go. What does hehave tha t the o thers don ' t?

MARK McCORMACK: He has got an immense maturity for his age, not only as agolfer but also as a human being. For Tigerto have done what he has done at age 22is taking things to a new level.P G A To u r C o m m i s s i o n e r T i m F i n c h e m

says he hopes that in 20 years, golf willl o o k l i k e t h e r e s t o f A m e r i c a — i n t e r m sof the racial demographics of the sport.Yeah, that's right, but you want golf tolook like the rest of the world, coo. And Ithink Tiger, more than any other person,could do chat. If Tiger Woods were toplay exclusively in Asia—which he isn'tgoing CO do—but if he did, it would probably have a much bigger impact on thesport in the next two decades than anything else he could do. He could build anAsian Tour, Tim, of course, is U.S. oriented because chat is his job. But thesport is much bigger than the U.S.Earl Woods, Tiger's father, was hired byIMG as a "junior golf consultant" for areported $250,000 a year when Tigerwas still an amateur. Tiger's $40 millionN i k e d e a l w a s a n n o u n c e d a m a t t e r o f

days after he had won his third straightU.S. Amateur. Can you say categoricallyt h a t t h e N C A A r u l e s w e r e n o t . . .

Your facts are wrong . . .v i o l a t e d ?

Your number is off the charts it is sowrong. Tiger went to Stanford in September '94, and we had no commercialassociation with Earl Woods from '94torward, because that would have been aviolation of NCAA regulations. The arrangement we made with Earl Woodswas not even close to $250,000. Youcould take a zero off that, and it's probably closer.

The reason for the arrangement wasth.u we knew Tiger's father would be atjunior tournaments. So we made an ar-

Birth date: 11/6/1930.

Bithplace: Chicago.Residences: Oriando, New York. ClevelanO.

L o n d o n .

Family: Wife Betsy Nagelsen (since 1986).Children Breck (1957), Todd (1960), Leslie

(1966), Mary Elizabeth (1997).Education; B.A. In French, William & Mary;

JJD., Yale Law School.

Books: What They Don't Teach You at Harvard Business School (1984); The TerribleTruth About Lawyers (1987); What They StillDon't Teach You at Harvard Business School

(1989); The 110%So/ut/on(1991): HittheGround Running{199B).

Sports achievements; Competed In the 1958U.S. Open, four U.S. Amateur Championshipsand th ree Br i t i sh AmateurChampionsh ips .

Current title: Founder, chairman and CEO ofInternational Management Group (IMG). Corebusinesses Include athlete representation;

sports TV production and distribution; sportsand classical music events: sports market

ing: real estate; licensing.IMG clients: Some 700 in sports, music,business and broadcasting, including Andre

Agassi. Muhammad All, Bob Dole. DavidDuval. Chris Evert, Wayne Gretzky. MartinaHingis, Evander Hoiyfleld. David Leadbetter.Nancy Lopez, Joe Montana, Colin Montgom-erie, Martina Navratilova, the Nobel Foundation, Arnold Palmer (pictured above withMcCormack in the '60s). Itzhak Perlman.

Rolex, Pete Sampras, Monica Seles, AnnikaSorenstam, Herschel Walker. Karrie Webb,Wimbledon, Tiger Woods.Personal philosophy: "Be the best, learn the

business, and expand by applying what youalready know."

rangement with him to write reportsbased on what he saw, which players hethought were going to be good. I disclosed chat arrangement to the U.S. GolfAssociation before it was made. It wasapproved, and there was no problemwith it. Tiger's father wrote very detailed reports—which we have in ourfiles. So your year is wrDUg, your itumbers

are wrong and your facts are all wrong.A n d t h e N i k e d e a l ?

Earl is someone we have known for along time. The question always beingasked, long before Tiger went Co Stanford, was what we thought Tiger Woodswould be worth if he turned pro—whichis a thing that any family would wantto know.

We have had a lot of dealings withNike. We have had [Andre] Agassi,IJim] Courier, IMonica] Seles, [Pete]Sampras, Curtis Strange, Peter jacobsenwhen he was with us; a whole bunch ofpeople. So we talked to Nike on a "whatif?" basis. What would Tiger be worth?That dialogue went on. We didn't represent Tiger Woods. We were just trying togive his father some information. Nikesaid what they would pay. So it was quiteeasy to get the thing concluded when hedecided to do it.Would golf be better off If we got rid ofNCAA rules—If we got rid of the rules ofamateur status the way tennis did 30years ago?No. The rules of the game should be controlled by the USCA and the Royal andAncient Golf Club of St. Andrews. Ifthere's going to be a change in amateurstatus, that change should be dictatedjointly by them. Far be it for me to opinewhether they should or shouldn't do it.

I will say some ot the NCAA regulations are very unreasi-naable and archaic.The episode with Arnold Palmer and Tiger Woods having dinner in C?alitorniawas one of the most reductio tui ub.s!n ciuinsthat 1 have ever seen.

Tiger had been getting an awtul lot otmedia attention. And he didn't knowwhat to do. He wanted to meet Arnoldand talk to him about it. Arnold was atSilverado playing the Transameriea Seniors tournament, and St.intord is quitenearby. We helped arrange tor them tohave dinner together.

Arnold paid the check, u'hich 1 thinkwas $34 or $45, and the NCAA suspond-

204 June 1998 GOLF DIGEST

ed Tiger for a day. It's a joke. I havealways believed that episode and theNCAA's reaction was a turning point inTiger's approach to professional golf. 1think he thought. "If the NCAA is thisridiculous, this absurd, 1 am going to getout of here."Would there be anything wrong with,say, signing a 14-year-oid golf prodigy to$5 million or whatever, in the way thath a p p e n s i n t e n n i s ?No, there is no reason you can't do that.In tennis, we signed Martina Hingiswhen she was 11 or 12. 1 think webrought Anna Kournikova and her family to the Bollettieri Tennis Academy,which we own, when she was 9. We havesigned figure skaters, gymnasts, veryy o u n g .

It is very easy for people to say, "Whydon't you let this poor child live a normallife, go to high school, go to college, go tothe junior prom.'" What these people sitting in ivory towers miss is that thereare points in people's careers where theyhave an opportunity to make enoughmoney to make not only themselvessecure for the rest of their lives financially, but also to make their families secure.It is fairly presumptuous to suggest thata family should reject that opportunityout of hand. People who say that arevery na ive .

You also have the possibility of injur>'.We represente«.l three football players:Larry Csonka, Jim Kiick and Paul War-field, who were Miami Dolphin playersback when the Dolphins were SuperBowl champions. We made large contracts with them to go play with anotherleague. The Miami papers went nuts, andeverybody said, "How can you turn yourback on the Dolphins?"

Larry Csonka was in my office rightafter that, in Cleveland, and he said,"You know, I have got kids to educate, 1have got a mortgage to pay. 1 could goout and tear a cartilage tomorrow ["•layingfootball. You think those tans and those

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sp^rcswriters would pay niy mortgage, oreducate my kids?"How difficult was it to sign Tiger? Was ita long drawn-out battle?Well, 1 wasn't personally that involved inthe machinations that went on. But obviously a lot of people were making a lot ofapproaches to Tiger and his family. Ithink he knew who the best companywas. He sensed he was going to be aglobal player, and he knew we were theonly global company in the sport and wewere the best. So I don't think there wasever much of a chance anybody else wasgoing to sign Tiger, who is a veiy brightpe rson ,We heard you had to cut your normalpercen tage to ge t h im.I have no comment on that. I don't talk

about percentages, It is tip to the clientsto say what they want to say.There have been so many tragic figuresin sport. How does Tiger avoid becomingone of them? What are the potentialp i t fa l ls?He's got to concentrate on playing golfas well as he can. It is very easy to get involved in a whole bunch of other things.

Sports personalities often think if theyare a champion in sport they can be achampion at everything. We have h.idathletes setting up sports magazines, people going into the automobile business,into the restaurant business. They justthink they can do everything, and theycan't. Tiger knows that. There will betime for all those things later on if he sochooses.

Next year there are going to be four new

big-money events that have been described as the germ of a World Tour. Willthese lead to a World Tour in golf?I don't think so. It's just four new e\'ents.Tim Finchem's job is to make the U.S.tour successful tor its players, for its sponsors, for its charities and for the spectators. And I think he should jiist do that.The U.S. tour .should not be trying tocontrol world golt.What wou ld be wrong w i th the PGATour owning and running a truly globalW o r l d T o u r ?

A lot wrong. The PGA Tour is an American organization. A global tour is theworld. America is a veiy small jxtrt of thew o r l d .

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LSGA. Those are the .iioverniny Kvlies.The U.S. tour is desimied to itiok our forch c inrerescs ot protessional ri>iirnniiiencyolf in the United States, which is iior intlie best interests ot tlie sport globally.For an\'body to be kiddinii thcinseix'esabin i r that is lud icrous.

It you were interested in the sportglobally, you would try to ha\-e the bestplayers expose their talents in New Zealand and Peru an^.! Nigeria and Egypt.But the PGA Tour is rest r ic t ive wi thplayers and TV policies, which is notgood tor the sport. It is insular. St)me ot"the tour's initiatives make it seem likethey are the governing body ot golt andthat the U5GA is just a hunch ot blue-bla:ered officials.What would be some examples?The Worhl Golf Village, First Tee pro

gram, this sort of stuff. They are all fine,but it's like they're there just to cry toshow the world and America who is running golf.If you believe in market forces, whichyou clearly do, why shouldn't theytry these th ings to make themselvess t r o n g e r ?Why don't they start controlling the ballsani.1 the clubs and amateur status rulesand Rules ot Golt? Why don't they do thewhole thing.' They shouldn't. It is norright.You could have s tar ted a Wor ld Tour decades ago, before the tours were strong,and owned it all. Do you wish you had?No. I've had a lot ot opportunity ti) dothat. 1 hiul opportunities in the '60s, '70sand up to and including the '90s. 1 stillhave. You have a lot of people still talking abtnit a lot ot global-tour ideas. Butthe sport works as it is. A World Tour issomething 1 could have done quite easily.But it isn't In the best interests of golf.What did Greg Norman do wrong in hisa t tempt to l aunch a Wor ld Tour?He tried to do it unilaterally without getting everybody on board. The idea wasbad in the first place. Had it been good, it

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would have happened before he tried. Hedidn't think it ovit ver\' well. He u'ent toRupert Murdcich and Fo.x and one or twoother plavers. but he didn't seem to understand how yoU works,But i f Murdoch, Ted Turner or B i l l Gates

organized It, and offered more money,would there be anything to stop themfrom launching a successful rebel tour?I think so. The powers-that-be in thesport would not support it. Golf hasworked because there is a ^reat balanceof power.

We ha\-e got the U.S. tour and theEuropean tour, the USGA and the R&A.It all kind ot works, and the sport hasthri\'ed. Kind ot like our ConstitutionaltoLinding tathers wanted .America to be,with a Supreme Court, the legislative

and the executive branch. The axiom"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies.What about women's golf? If you bec a m e c o m m i s s i o n e r o f t h e L P G A T o u r

t o m o r r o w, w h a t w o u l d y o u d o ?Women's golf is a better bet in the nexttwo decades than the senior tour, forsure. Most knowledgeable people wouldagree with that.

1 he difference between men's andwomen's golf today is that—e.xcept in Japan—not a lot of top-class professionalwomen's golf is being played on \'arioustours round the wor ld . The women 's Eu

ropean tour has had problems lately.There is a lot of opportunity for women'sgolf in Europe, and in Australia, SouthA f r i c a .

If I were LPGA commissioner, I would

certainly be thinking about a more globalapproach. You would not be competingwith or overwhelming a foreign tour.You'd be supporting the growth of thesport in these countries where help isneeded.You recently signed a deal with the International Dance Sport Federation ...Oh yes.and it seems likely that ballroom dancing wi l l become an Olympic sport in2004. Should golf be in the Olympics?Well, I was with President Samaranch ofthe IOC llnternational Olympic Committee] in Lausanne, Switzerland, a couple of months ago. We talked about it alittle bit. He has had meetings in Valder-rama about it. He wants to make sure hehas the best players; his idea is of team

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conipecicion as opposed to individualcompetition. Done right, I have no problem with it.In the movie "Jerry Maguire," TomCruise plays the part of a young sportsagent who gets disillusioned, finds ac o n s c i e n c e a n d w r i t e s a " m i s s i o nstatement" for his co-workers that getshim fired. Did you ever experience a career c r i s i s o f consc ience?I have had dinner with Tom Cruise inLondon several times. I told him thatobviously IMG was the company he left,in th e movie, and I was delighted he onlytook one client. What was the question?Did you ever have a similar crisis, a period of soul-searching about your role inthe world as a sports agent?We try very hard to help our clients.

There are instances where we havehelped clients, many of which don't getpLiblicited. Our goal is to help clients bebetter people, to maximize the commercial elements ol their talents while at thesame time not in any way denigratingtheir desire to be better people and havefamilies and all that kind of stuff. We getcriticized for a lot of things. But I think ifyou talk to our clients, you'll find a lot ofpretty happy people.The catchphrase In the movie Is "Showme the money." Is that the prevalent attitude among athletes today?That is like asking if it's the prevalentattitude among journalists. I am sure tosome it is and to some it isn't. I thinkmoney is important to athletes. Theyhave a limited earning curve. You don't

even want to th ink about Ian Baker-Finch in terms of what happened to hisgolf career.What are some examples of people whohave been mismanaged, or who haven'treceived the money they could have?There are dozens. There are two timesyou can make a lot of money in sports;when everybody thinks you are going tobe a superstar, and after you become asupers tar.

Going into his professional career, BenCrenshaw had everything going for him.But he decided that money wasn't thatimportant. He just wanted to concentrate on playing golf. He became verygood. He is one of the nicest guys I know,really great for the sport. But he fell shortof being a superstar. He never got what

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he shoiikl h,i\x- Ircin pha.M.' one, .iiul never L|uire reaelieil phase luo, lie'J hawbeen lar heUerolt heine wiilt ii.'- Iroin Pa\-O n e .Do you have any competitors?Nor I'eally, no. We ha\e a loi ol one-otthouritjues. Bui i^oit is ^kihal, an^.1 rhere i--n(.)boJ\ eke thai i> elohak Vinny [Oile-,ot Inc. I is a ^erear jjuy. I le in Ivicli-nioni,!. V'ii inia. Co)rners!one Spivrrs is mOalla.s. 'ou'ee i;o[ l.\'nn Roacli, u lio rep-resenrs bred |CJouple^j and I i.k>n'i knowwill) else. Seenis like a nice iiuy. coo. JohnMascarello has IJohnl l^^aly. I'loi-nl Watson has his hroiher-in-law. jack [Nick-laiisl and Greg [Norniatal hoch have theirown organizations. Anyho^ly who realh'wanes to he re['>resenred on a globalbasis- -well, rhere is no akernari\'e to us.

You can ' t a rgue w i th IMG's success , bu t

i n e v i t a b l y t h e r e h a v e b e e n s o m e c r i t icisms. I'm sure you've heard them all.1 w> Hikl irnagine.I would like to raise them each and gety o u r r e a c t i o n .Sure .T h e fi r s t o n e i s t h e c o n fl i c t - o f - i n t e r e s t

issue. IMG expanded from representingathletes, to running events and providing TV coverage. You are often taking acut from every side of the pie.kverv rime 1 gcr askci.1 rhar i.|iiesnon, 1a-~k the inieriMgaror. me a specificex-impile."

See. the generality is, gee, you repre-seiti the plavers, you own the tourna-menr, you sell the relevision rights, andisn't that awliil, isn't that just fraught

with problems.' L'stialiy it ger.s aimed atthe World .Match Play in Britain. And 1say, well, we created the event, we put uptthe prize money, we made an arraiige-ment with the golf course to stage it, andwe have provided the British golf publicwith .1 great occasion for 34 years. Whatha\'e we >-loi"ie wrong.' The fact that a lotof t.rur clients happen to be playiitg in theWorld Match Play—well, they deser\'eto be pkiying. We have created a greate\'ent. It has been good for the sport.But to have that much power is dangerous. There's nothing to stop you commercializing any sport to your advantage.Well, right. We could ha\'e done aWorld Tour. We could have done it intennis. As opposed to sttying what wecould vlo because of our power, tell mewhat we have done that has been wrongfor arty sport that we've been inv'olveil in.There may be purists who say, "Geez,they have created a Skins Game, that'sbad." But the Skins Cnime has had someof the highest TV ratings in golf. Whatkbad about it.' 1 mean, it's good.Besides the Skins Game, purists pointto such IMG invent ions as corporateten ts , appearance money, t he S i l l y Season, billboards at the British Open ,..Whoal What is the matter with corporate tents.' We inx'ented corporate tents.It Wimbledon. They had ne\'er h.idthem betoie. It's great. Nk)thing wrongwith corporate tents. You say Schweppesbillboat\ls at the British Open.' It doesii't

re;tlly horhcr wry iinich. Ccrt.iinlydoesn't bother the RtSiA. ComnK-reialidentiHcation. tcistefully done, isn't bad.What were the other ones you said.'Appearance money, the Silly Season.Appearance numey is ine\'itable. Thereis no profession in the world wliere thebest don't <4et more to perform their artthan the not-so-,yood. Paul McCartneychari^es X for a concert and an unknownsinyer charges Y.

The problem is that i^olf's professionalbodies are one-man, one-\-ote bodies.The majority voters want to spread outpri:e mone\'. They want to ha\-e peoplepaid tor rnc\liiKritv becatise they are mediocrity. That is bad tor the sport. Thepeople that just make the cur cver\' weekprobably oui^ht to i^et on with somethingelse in their lives.

PcMiple put in these rules about appearance money that are a>.lmirable inintent, I j^uess, but none of them work,ob\'iousiy.So appearance money is alive and wello n t h e P G A T o u r ?

Sure. In all kinds of ways. Cd^me to adinner the niyht before the tournamentstarts and you get 5100,000. It is understood. of course, that ytui are g<ung toshow up for the tournament. Or ytni canuse our corporate jcf for 20 hours if youci>me play our tournament. Play the XYZOpen and we'll give y(.)u an XYZ contract. All kinds of permutations. Itdoesn't take a lot of creativity to figureout lunv to get it done. If it makes e\'ery-body feel better, going through that charade, then fine.And the Silly Season?I don't know who ins'ented that name.Probably the U.S. tour, because anythingthey don't conrnd. they like to call silly.The Sillv Season has a lc>t of pretty interesting events.But do you think the proliferation ofsuch things cheapens golf in any way?Not yet. 1 fhink it could. You could ha\'elogos painted on the greens in a tiuirna-

ment. Tni couLl have nonstop commct-ci.il sign> along all the fairways. But it isuiiLler Control. It's not any worse than alor of other sports. ! don't feel the taste-fulness of golf has been in any way damaged toi.la\-.Is it in danger of being damaged?Anything dime to extreme can createdamage. It is one thing to ha\'e a caddiewear a L\'loitte vSc Touche \'isor, it isanother to dress the caildie up as a Coca-C-oIa bottle. You could do that. I am nottroubled by the visor. I would be rroubleilby the (-oca-Cola bottle.Going back to conflict of interest, someof your competitors say it's fine to represent players or to run tournaments, butif you do both, you have a monopoly.Nobody is stopping them from running

touriiainenis. Why don't they go do ii.'It's a free world. The tact they are inca-jsabte of doing it shoukin'l work to oui-• . l e t r imenr.Some people say, while you are entitledto take a cut of any endorsement dealyou fix up for clients, it is ethicaily wrongto take a percentage of the prize moneythe players have earned through theirown endeavors. At that point, the client-agent relationship moves from beingsymbiotic to parasitic.Let s say I'm .i client, and rhis year 1 nuklei"I million. 1 paid IMCi—I'll pick a number—5200,000, parr of which was fromendorsemeius, pan liom ap[searancemonies, parr Irom price money, part fromfinancial managemenr or wharever. Thekey ijuestion the client has got to ti.sk is,

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"is $200,000 a fair nunihcr co pay themk)r what they ha\'e done for me.'" Or ["iiiranother way, "Hai.1 1 not had them at all,would I he more rhan $200,000 worseoff.'" That's the only tiiiestion at the endof the year; is IMG worrh it.'Frank Hannigan wrote in the July 1997Issue of Golf Digest: " IMG Is terr ificat making money for many of its clients,but subtlety is not its thing. In fact, whenit comes to public relations, IMG is awful. IMG's idea of PR is either to bribethe media or k ick them in the crotch."

Well, I came very close co suiny FrankHannfuan about that comment, becausebribe^■y... that is an actionable phrase. 1feel kind of sorry for Frank. He has had <idifficult career, which is waning. Mostpeople at the USGA tell me the chip on

hi> shoulder gets bigger as each year goeson. He Is a very bright guy who has justnot been \'ery successful in lite, and I feelsorry for him.But it is perceived that IMG could domore to help its own PR and its clients' PR, by doing things like schoolingplayers in how to talk to the media, howto cope with the pressures of the sportand so on. Do you do that?We do a lot of it. it gets very frustratingdealing with certain elements of thepress, because you can't win. But we certainly have never bribed anybody andnever kick anybody in the crotch. But Iguess you just have to consider the rathersad source.Take a client like Colin Montgomerie. Aterrific player, yet he has had some terri-

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ble press over things he's said, the wayhe's behaved. Doesn't anybody at IMGsit down with him and say, "Come on,Monty, we've got to sort this out. This isa p r o b l e m " ?

Colin Montgomerie is one of the nicestmen I have ever met. Some of the problems he got into during the Ryder Cupwere unfortunate, because I think mostall of the stuff he said was taken out ofcontext. Sure, you talk to your clientsabout difficulties with the press or problems, and you do what you can to helpthem. But 1 don't like getting our business into the press.What about some of the Tiger incidents,the controversial GQ article, for instance[Woods was quoted using profanity andtelling tasteless Jokes]? Are thoseth ings you 'd s i t down w i th h im ands a y . . .

Look, Tiger was 2 I years old. The crew atthe GQ photo shoot started telling jokesand Tiger joined in. Tiger believed thathe was speaking off the record. He willlearn. We all learn.Is it IMG's role to teach him?I think it is everybody's role. We talked alot about the Columbus, Ga., thing ITi-ger withdrew at the last minute from theBuick Challenge in September 1996 andthereby skipped the Fred Haskins Awarddinner to be held in his honor). We allmade a mistake there. When he withdrew from that tournament he actuallycame to stay here, in this house, for five

or six Jnys. himself. Nohodv know wherehe Wiis.Frank Williams, Greg Norman's formera g e n t , o n c e a l l e g e d t h a t I M G o f t e n

packages athletes, using them for leverage in negotiations without the athlete'sk n o w l e d g e .We don'r Jo chat. I don't know quitewhat that means, if what it means is. wesay: "We will yive you Grey N\^rman ityou will take two youny clients"—well,we haven't done that.

There are a lot ot wavs that kind ot"dialoyue yoes. Often a sponsisr will i les-peratelv want somethiny vou have andmay say. "God, if you can do this, I'dreally like to help yiui in any other way 1can." There are a \o: of Jifferenr wavsinrerchanye takes place. Frank used towork ti>r us.Talking of Greg, a feeling in recent yearsis that the really big established namescan do be t t e r on t he i r own . You ' ve hadsome major defections: Norman, Faldo,Pr ice . How much have those hur t IMG?I am ylad you asked that question. Ourcurrent clients won 20 of the 45 tournaments on the U.S. tour (in 19971- Wehad about 44 percent of the entry at theTour Championship. You ask. "Howmuch did that hurt.'" Well, we are doing fine.

It is interesting. A lot of these peopleleave because they want to have morepersonal service. They say they are runaround too much. They want to concentrate on their golf. Their minds will bemore at ease if they ha\'e someone working only for them, their golf will get better. Now 1 would like to name, if I may-bore you. a few people who left us. [Consults (J [)ild of notes.)

Greg Norman, as an IMG client before 1994, won 62 events including twoBritish Opens. On his own, he blew asix-shot lead at the Masters in '96,missed the 36-hole cut twice in '97 in majors, and for the first time in 12 yearsdidn't have a top-IO finish in a major.

Nick Price left us in 1994 to he represented by a friend from South .Africa,whom he has ni>w left. .After winning theBritish Open, two PG.As and 12 tourevents as an I.VIG client, since he left ushe's won once on the PGA Tour. As anIMG client he was seventh on the moneylist in '91, fourth in '92, first in '93, first in'94. Since then, he was 30th in "95 and50th in '96. | Price finished 17th on themonev list in 1997.1

Nick Faldo was probahlv the best ma-jor-championship golfer of the currentyenerariiui. Faldo left us at the end of'96 in order to further his objective ofwinning im^re majors. In '97, his bestmajor-championship finish was a 48rh-place tie in the U.S. Open. He missedthe cuts in the Vlasters an>.i the PGA.

Sandv Lyle left us at the end of June1994 to be represented by another man-agemenr company. As an IMG client, hehad 25 career victories, won two majorchampionships, and he hasn't won since.He is currently 246rh c»n the world ranking, Ian Baker-Finch—I don't have totell you about him. Peter Jacobsen hadthe best year of his career in 1995, left usin 1996. He is currentlv 142nJ on thewtirld ranking.You presumably don't think any of thosea r e a c o i n c i d e n c e ?

Well, 1 think it is amusing. People leaveus saving they want more personal atten-ri<m, whicii vviil allow them to play bettergolf. .And history doesn't hear that outverv wel l .Is there any animosity on your part

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t o w a r d t h e s e p e o p l e f o r l e a v i n g ?Not at all. Nick Price is an absolutelyterrific guy. You could not have a nicerguy than Nick. I am certainly sorry thatNick left. Nick Faldo was with us for over20 years, and we did a heck ot a job forhim. And Nick Faldo has never said onebad word about me or IMG since he hasleft. Nick Faldo has a great sense of humor, and 1 have a lot of respect for him. Ihave somewhat less for John Simpson[Faldo's agent, formerly with IMG]. Butthat's another story.

Greg's case is a little different. We didan extraordinarily good job for him. It is alittle bit ironic that Greg left IMG because he didn't think we were doing aver\' good job, and then hired two of ourpeople right away to run his affairs. I feel

more disappointed in him than in any ofthe other players, because I don't thinkhe was fair.Because o f some o f the th ings he sa id?I just felt we had done a mind-blowingjob for Greg and suddenly he decided totake the money we earned him and setup his own organization. Then he said topeople that we hadn't done a ver>' goodjob. An Arnold Palmer would not havedone that. There is loyalty inside a lot ofpeople. I don't think that loyalty wasthere with him.

It is a tough business. We make a lot ofmoney for clients. But some say, "Whathave you done for me lately.'"S o i t ' s n o t s o m u c h t h a t N o r m a n l e f t b u t

the way that he left.I t h i n k s o . T h e r e w a s n e v e r t h e t h a n k

you. A lot had to do with Hughes Norton, who is a genius as a golf manager.Hughes went through a divorce, didn'thave much of a family life and devotedhis entire life to Greg. I know how muchblood and guts Hughes spent working forGreg. He rewrote the record book forGreg Norman in terms of everything;appearance money, endorsement contracts, creative things to do. Fortunately,Hughes has rewritten the record bookagain with Tiger and made Greg Norman's contracts look very small.I s N o r m a n s t i l l t h e b e s t p l a y e r i n t h ew o r l d ?

No. The best player in the world?He is according to the Official WorldRankings that you created. [Woods tookover the No. 1 spot on Jan. 11,1998.]

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I chink Norman's right up there. He is animmense talent in golf and a very charismatic person. No question. He is a greatplayer, though he has not yet realized thepotential from his talent. He may do it.

But if he doesn't, he would be remembered more for what he didn't do, and forhis Masters collapse, than for what hehas done. He would be remembered forlosing, for choking. He is a very excitingplayer to watch, but unfortunately, someof his worst days have been the mosthighly viewed in the histor>' of the sport.That is unfortunate for Greg.He gives the impression of being morei n t e r e s t e d i n b u s i n e s s .

He would be better off trying to win major championships, and concentrating onbusiness when he gets a little older. He

may be one of the best players in theworld, but he certainly is not the bestbusinessman in the world.The fina l common c r i t i c i sm i s IMG burns

players out by giving them too many off e r s t h e y f i n d h a r d t o r e f u s e — t h e B i l l

R o g e r s s y n d r o m e .I just answered chat. The people who leftus in an effort to play better haven'tplayed better.There is a conflict, though. As a player Iw a n t t o d o w h a t ' s b e s t f o r m e . A s a n

agent, you want to make money. Thosearen't necessarily always going to bethe same thing.Let's say we totally controlled TigerWoods, which we don't. There is noquestion if he were to travel the worldgetting mega-appearance monies in

1998, he would make millions mcn'e thanon the U.S. tour. But we would be veryshortsighted and very stupid to suggesthe do that. This is a long-term thing.IMG is not S(.)me fly-by-nighr company.S u p p o s e J o s e M a r i a O l a z a b a l b e c o m e sa client. He always takes the winters off.I can't believe some pressure wouldn'tbe appl ied to him to play in var iousevents—because during ail those winter months he wouldn't be makingm o n e y f o r I M G .You misjudge our company. If Jose MariaOlazabal were a client, all I would say tohim was, "Do what you have to do to getready for Augusta."

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fishing. You have a Bruce Lierzke, whodoesn't even want to go to the majors. Ithink you have to deal with the person.Different people do it different ways.Do all of the criticisms of IMG, the nicknames, hurt you personally?I am flattered by most of them. Manypeople are jealous of success. Many people shoot at success and try to knockpeople off pedestals. You expect it. It'spart of the game. You just try to workhard, do the best you can and keep doinga good job.Let's go back to the beginning, to yourb a c k g r o u n d .Oh, so now we're going to get friendly?Y e s .

It only took you 2V4 hours.W h a t i s y o u r v e r y fi r s t r e c o l l e c t i o n o f

golf—whether watching it or playing it?When I was 6 years old I was hit by a carand had a fractured skull. The doctortold me I shouldn't play football, which Iloved. My dad started teaching me golf.When I was 6, there weren't a lot ofyoung kids playing golf. My godfatherwas Carl Sandburg, who was a famouspoet. He lived up near us in Michigan. Iplayed golf with him.

I will never forget, in the early-to-mid-'40s I was in Kansas City with mydad, and we went out to the Kansas CityOpen at the Hillcrest Country Club.There was this player who was doing ver 'well named Frank Stranahan. I had mylittle, tiny Brownie camera. I was a littlekid. He was walking from the puttinggreen to the tee. He saw me and stopped,

and he smiled and let me take a picture. Inever forgot that. He had a shirt on, 1will never forget the shirt, either. My goalwas to get one of chose red shirts.

I still correspond with Frank Stranahan. It IS really amazing, yoti hear thingsabout kids and autographs and the wayplayers treat the public. I never forgot.

1 asked Henry Picard for an autographonce; he didn't give it to me. And youknow, I remember never liking him eversince then, rooting against him. A littlething. I met him when I was older. Hewas the pro at Canterbury in Cleveland.He gave me a couple of lessons, and Iactually kidded him about it. It's amazingthe impact you can have on a child.Stranahan was my hero. Just because hehad stopped and let me take a picture.

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Did you get the shirt?Yeah, and I wore it for years. It was anunbelievable shirt. My mother gave it tome for Christmas. I always called it myS t r a n a h a n s h i r t .Were you always competitive and drivena s a c h i l d ?

Yes, 1 was. I used to play golf tournaments with cards. 1 had a whole tour. Inother words, 1 had a deck of cards, 1would have my pairings, all the playerson the tour. Diamonds and hearts werepars, clubs were bogeys, spades were birdies. Ace, king, queen spades were eagles. Two, 3, 4s were double bogeys. Iwould just go zip, zip, zip, par, par, par. 1did the whole tour. And 1 had moneylists. I have hundreds of notebooks in thishouse somewhere of the tournaments 1did like that, when 1 was a kid and e\'enlater, just for amusement.You are probably not given to introspection— but if you had to give the reasonyou have always been competitive anddriven, what would you say?I don't know. My mother was always \'eryaware of accomplishment and moneyand all those things. My lather was a \'er 'woii;.lerful man to whom other things inlite were tar more important than earthlygoods. 1 suppose my mother really wasthe person who made me want r() striveto accomplish things 1 pereei\'ed wtnildhave pleased her.

1 try to do what 1 do best. There's atamoiis line that jack WTlch, the head otGeneral hlectr ic, said. He said, "Youknow how you heat Bohhy h'ischer/" The

N E - 2 J a n c l W. S O O L I - n i G H S T

V

answer is "Don't play him at chess." Iknow I can't beat people on the golfcourse or the tennis court—but there arethings I can beat people at.What do you recall about your competitive golf experiences? You played in the'58 U.S. Open.I was medalist in the qualifier in Ohio.Southern Hills was very difficult. Therough was absolutely horrible. I shot a 78the first day, and played as well as I could.

I came off the 18th green and [thenUSGA Executive Director] Joe Dey said,"How did you do?" I said, "78." Hesaid, "That's too bad." I thought, "Toobad? This is one of the monumental accomplishments of all time."

I think 1 was one under par after fourholes. I went back to the scoreboard thatnight, and there was nobody in the tournament who was two under after fourholes. So I convinced myself I led theU.S. Open for four holes.

But I had no chance. 1 didn't have avery good swing, and 1 wasn't very good.When did you first meet Arnold Palmer?Do you remember?It was when William &. Mary playedWake Forest in golf in the early '50s. Ididn't see him again until the late '50swhen I started an exhibition company inCleveland. Arnold was one of the playerswe had signed to do exhibitions.What was the first endorsement you gotf o r A r n l e ?

There was a company in Tennesseecalled Tigrett Industries, which wasowned by the guy whose son later formedHard Rock Cafe. We got a driving-netendorsement for Arnold. We did thephotography session at the Mobile Open.They had it all set up by the 17th fairway;and Arnold, the first ball he hit wentright through the net and over the crowd.D i d M a r k M c C o r m a c k m a k e A r n o l d P a l

m e r , o r d i d A r n o l d P a l m e r m a k e M a r kM c C o r m a c k ?

I think Arnold made Mark. He gave memy chance. If he had not given me my

chance, I am not sure whether I'd havetaken the risk of leaving the law firm. Ilike to think I helped him maximize thecommercial potential of the charismaand personality he had. But, for sure,without Palmer there's very little doubt Iwouldn't have gotten where I got.Talking of Icons, what about the Pope?People are always amused he shows upon your l ist of c l ients.

That was in the early '80s. The Pope wasdoing a tour of Britain. The CatholicChurch saw on previous tours peoplewere selling piety items. They didn't likeit for two reasons: One, the items weren'tof a very high quality. And two, theyweren't getting any of the money. So werepresented the Church in the marketingof the Pope's tour. Of course, the British

tabloids had a field day. They ran a cartoon of the Pope saying: "Give us thisday our daily Wonderbread."How come you never moved Into Hollyw o o d , t h e m o v i e b u s i n e s s ?A lot of very, very talented people arerunning Hollywood. It's the Bobby Fischer thing again. If you're very good atselling apples, and there's a great demandfor apples, why move into pears? Whenyou know nothing about pears.But you created your empire by movingIn to pears .We only expanded in ways that madesense. The people we knew doing sponsorship or TV rights are the same whether it's golf or a classical music concert.Forbes recently ranked IMG 179th In thelist of the 500 largest private companies,

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with $1.02 billion in revenue, $34 millioni n n e t i n c o m e . I s t h a t a c c u r a t e ?

I have no comment. We arc a privatecompany, and we will remain private. 1think they arc a little low on theirr e v e n u e .

You have obviously had millions of opportunities to sell IMG, and walk awayw i t h . . .

.'\ lot of money.W h y h a v e n ' t y o u ?I just enjoy what 1 am doing too much. 1don't want to retire. Anybody I've knownwho has had a private company and gonepublic, in America, has been sorry theydid it. 1 don't need anything right now.So 1 don't see any reason to come up withthat objective.Why do people who go public regret It?Becau.se of all the S.E.C. fSecuritics andExchange Commi.s.sionl scrutiny andshareholder requirements and outsidepetsple second-guessing what you arcdoing. You have to disclose informationthat your competitors can see.Plus you've got to keep a bunch of Wal lStreet types happy.That's right. Instead of looking for thelong-term, you're worrying about what thenext quarter earnings are going to show.Have you got a plan in place for yours u c c e s s o r ?

We're pretty well set up. I mean, we'vegot very bright people working for us.People say, "Gee, IMG's great, hutwhat'Il ever happen if something happens to Mark?" Well, it will probably beb e t t e r.Is the top job likely to stay In the family?

I think my children [McCormack hasthree adult children from his first marriage, who all work for IMGl are veryhappy with the current managementstructure of the company.What does that mean? Wi l l your success o r b e y o u r N o . 2 g u y o r o n e o f y o u rc h i l d r e n ? O r s o m e o n e e l s e ?

It depends. I have had more meetings inthe last five vears about mv death than

you can think about. People refer to it as"The Event." .A lot: would depend uponwhen the event happen.s.W h a t k i n d o f p e o p l e w o u l d i t t a k e t om a k e I M G a c o n t i n u e d s u c c e s s i n t h e

n e x t c e n t u r y ?Oh. 1 think people who are looking at thelong term, people who are visionary interms of what is going to happen in sport.Because everything changes.

You take most of the team sports today. they rtre all going to end up goingglobal. 1 dou't know when. The NFL willbe in Tokyo and Frankfurt at some pointand the NBA will, too. You have got tofigure out when that is going to liappen,how to be a part of it.J u s t t o fi n i s h o f f i n t h e l a s t 1 0 m i n u t e s

we 've go t . . .You came earlv.You want me to go?No, that's alright. ILaugLs.jA lot of people say you changed a lotwhen you marr ied Betsy. Is that t rue?I think so. Too many people say it, for meto think it isn't true. Betsy is a very spiritual person. Frankly, she is the only person r^-e e\'er known in the world whoeverybody likes. She is constantly reminding me that all of these WorldMarch Plavs and being the Most Powerful Man or whatever are very temporal.YouW better be worrying about eternity al i t t l e b i t more .

She has provoked a lot of thought anda lor of action on my part in those areas,the spiritual areas. She is a tun person,great sense of humor. She brings medown to ear th .

And the challenges of becoming a fatheragain at your age?It's very exciting. At different ages thingsaffect you differently. It was sort of a routine thing when I was married the firsttime. It's a huge thing to Betsy, and I'msure it is going to affect me a lot.There is obviously a great disparity inyour ages. Is there any downs ide?I'm going to die first, probably. Somebodysaid for a man to find the ideal age tor awoman, you should divide his age by twoand add seven. So when you are 40, 27would be right. If you are 66, 40 would beright. So we would be just about rightaccording to that formula. IBecsy is 41.]

Yes, I think there's a downside. But 1am a youngish 67. Certainly having achild at this age is challenging, but Iknow it is going to be great,I showed your signature to a friend whoi s a h a n d w r i t i n g a n a l y s t . . .Oh gee:.and she said that it revealed somebodywho was dip lomat ic, defiant, intu i t ivea n d c a u t i o u s . H o w w o u l d y o u d e s c r i b eM a r k M c C o r m a c k ?

You'll have to get my wife in here for thisone. 1 will defer an answer on that. ICalLher on house intercom.]Have you slowed down at all from thefurious pace at which you've worked?1 work ver\' hard. I am a competitor. I liketo win. I'm more patient than 1 used tobe. Parr of it is to set a really good example. 1 call London at a quarter to 10 inthe morning, London time, and theyknow I am in Or lando.

It is one thing to be sitting on a yachtin the Mediterranean and calling upcomplaining about stuff, and ever>'onesaying, "Yeah, give me a break. Go getyour red wine for lunch." It is anotherthing to have me, at 4 in the morning,calling .somebody up. Whatever you hearabout me. you won't hear that 1 don'tw o r k h a r d .Have you ever su f fe red f rom s t ress?1 don't know what stress is. My physical

NE^ June 1998 GOLF DIGEST

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exams, knock on wood, have been verygood. I'm ver>' well organized with what Ido. If I told you what I did the last coupleof days, you'd say, "Gee whiz, a lot ofstuff," but it was done smoothly. Therewasn't any problem with it.Do you still play sports?I play a lot of tennis. I play very little golf.I played a couple of times during the British Open, at Prestwick, which I love. Ikeep threatening to play more golf. I'msort of about an 8- to lO-handicappertoday, something like that. I have a very-short swing; it repeats itself well.

The problem I have is that I was apretty good golfer once. When I startedworking really hard I stopped playing alot. I don't want to play golf badly when Ionce played it well. Plus, golf takes aterribly long time to play. I expect nothing from myself in tennis, so I don't getmad. My wife says my greatest talent intennis is picking my doubles partners. Iam very good at that.Tell me about the cruise you took a fewyears back.It was for 11 weeks in 1994.1 started outin Buenos Aires in January and ended upin japan in April. I went around CapeHorn up to Chile and across to EasterIsland and the Pitcairn Islands, Tahiti,then down to Auckland, Christchurch,Dunedin, then over to Tasmania, up toSydney, then up to Cairns, and aroundthe corner to Bali, Singapore and Thailand and then to Hong Kong and Shanghai and Kobe, where I got off. I visitedeight of our offices during the trip.

I had a penthouse suite for Betsy andmyself. I had two outside double-cabinsfor family and business associates andfriends. And I had a single cabin for secretaries. We would work in the mornings.Do you ever take real vacations, awayfrom a fax machine, telephone and youri n f a m o u s y e l l o w n o t e p a d ?Short ones. [Betsy arrives.]

John had a question that I wantedyou to answer. Vly handwriting was

NE-6 June 1998 GOLF DIGEST

analyzed. It said that I am, what was it?D i p l o m a t i c , d e fi a n t , i n t u i t i v e a n dc a u t i o u s .

Betsy Nagelsen: Very much the fourth thing.Intuitive, I'd say. Diplomatic? I wouldn't callyou diplomatic, would you?I don ' t know.

It's almost the opposite of defiant.But you can be both.Betsy: Yes, I have seen you being diplomatic.But defiant and cautious and intuitive, yes,you are those.John asked another question. Do I evertake a vacation?Totaily away from work.Betsy: I suppose in 30 years, probably onceor twice. I have never noticed you not on thephone. It's hard for Mark to just totally shutdown. But he can. Mark is very organized.Anyway, I am sure there is some truth tohandwriting. I'd hate to get mine analyzed.Wlioa! You can't even read it.[Betsy leaves.]Do you still record the exact number ofhours you sleep?Uh-huh. Last night, 9'/4.Some people would cal l that neurot icb e h a v i o r .

Yes. I've done it for 20, 25 years. I have iton a calendar upstairs. I am doing OKthis year.I s i t neu ro t i c behav io r?No. It started when my mother told me Iwasn't sleeping enough. I started keepinga record of it so I could say, "Well, I amsleeping 38 more hours than last year."Has money made you happy?It certainly frees your mind of a certainspectrum of concerns. You can't buy happiness with money, but you can eliminatea lot of the causes of unhappiness. If youare hungry, money buys food. If you areunhappy because you are hungry, moneyeliminates that part of unhappiness.What do you spend your money on?I don't have a lot of elaborate things.This house is probably the most elaboratething I have ever done. It is a really nicehome, and I like that.

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f

You've never been tempted to buy sevenFer ra r i s and a Gu l f s t r eam?

No. People who buy seven Ferraris havedeep psychological problems.What kind of person would you like yourn e w c h i l d t o b e ?

I'd like her co be healthy first of all. AndI'd like her to be well rounded, to havegood Christian values. I'd like her to belike her mother.One of your ancestors, the 18th-centuryScottish philosopher David Hume, wrotea book called An Enquiry Concerningthe Principles of Morals. Do you thinkthe world is less moral now than it waswhen you were a ch i ld?

Probably.Is i t ge t t ing worse?I hope not. I don't know, I think it's

actually reversing itself a little bit andgetting back on the right track. It got atits worst in the late '60s and '70.s.Would you rather have won Wimbledon,the Masters or the Nobel Peace Prize?If I didn't say the Nobel Peace Prize, ev-er>-one would say, "I knew he was a jerk."

What I usually get asked is "Wouldyou rather have won Wimbledon than tohave done what you have done at IMG?"My answer is usually: "If I had won six orseven Wimbledons, maybe." But thenagain, that is so temporal. You take aBjorn Borg, he won five of them. He hadfive days in the sunshine, really. I've had20 or 30 years there.

Mark McCormack at home with his wife,Betsy, and their daughter, Maggie.

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