NFPA Technical Committee on Fire Department Apparatus€¦ · M4/1/1993 FDA-AAA David Durstine Principal Akron Brass Company 343 Venture Boulevard Wooster, OH 44691 Fire Apparatus

NFPA 1911

Standard for the Inspection, Maintenance, Testing, and Retirement of In-

Service Automotive Fire Apparatus

Second Draft Meeting Agenda

February 2nd through 4th, 2016

La Jolla, CA

I. Welcome and call to order by Chairman Frazeur

II. Introductions- members and guests

III. Review and accept minutes from the May 2015 meeting

IV. NFPA update and purpose of meeting – Ken Holland, Staff Liaison

V. Act on public comments/second revision development

VI. Other business- Old and New

a. Standards Council request on seat width, NIOSH report and 1901

b. NFPA 1500 and pump and roll operations

VII. Next Meeting-TBD

NFPA Technical Committee on

Fire Department Apparatus

Address List No PhoneFire Department Apparatus FDA-AAA

Kendall Holland01/05/2016

FDA-AAA

Donald Frazeur

ChairLos Angeles Fire DepartmentFire Station 3108 North Freemont AvenueLos Angeles, CA 90012-2410

U 7/17/1998FDA-AAA

Elden L. Alexander

PrincipalUS Department of the InteriorBureau of Land Management3833 South Development AvenueBoise, ID 83705National Wildfire Coordinating GroupAlternate: William H. Yohn

E 8/2/2010

FDA-AAA

Walter C. Caldwell, Jr.

PrincipalCharlotte Fire Department500 Dalton AvenueCharlotte, NC 28206Alternate: Homer K. Robertson

U 10/28/2008FDA-AAA

Wesley D. Chestnut

PrincipalSpartan Motors, Inc.1541 Reynolds RoadCharlotte, MI 48813-2040

M 08/11/2014

FDA-AAA

Jeff Cranfill

PrincipalCalifornia Department of Forestry and Fire Protection - CALFIRE5950 Chiles RoadDavis, CA 95618

U 03/07/2013FDA-AAA

Peter F. Darley

PrincipalW. S. Darley & Company325 Spring Lake RoadItasca, IL 60143-2072National Truck Equipment AssociationAlternate: Jason Darley

M 4/1/1993

FDA-AAA

David Durstine

PrincipalAkron Brass Company343 Venture BoulevardWooster, OH 44691Fire Apparatus Manufacturers AssociationAlternate: Mike Schoenberger

M 3/15/2007FDA-AAA

Clayton W. Fenwick

PrincipalSugar Land Fire DepartmentPO Box 110Sugar Land, TX 77487-0110International Association of Fire ChiefsAlternate: Stuart D. Insley

U 08/11/2014

FDA-AAA

James R. Garver

PrincipalSutphen Corporation4500 Sutphen CourtHilliard, OH 43026-1224Alternate: Clark A. Green

M 3/2/2010FDA-AAA

David V. Haston

PrincipalUS Department of AgricultureForest ServiceNational Interagency Fire Center3833 South Development AvenueBoise, ID 83705-5354Alternate: Dan W. McKenzie

RT 1/14/2005

FDA-AAA

Thomas Hillenbrand

PrincipalUL LLC333 Pfingsten RoadNorthbrook, IL 60062-2096Alternate: James E. Johannessen

RT 1/17/1997FDA-AAA

James J. Juneau

PrincipalJuneau, Boll, Stacy, & Ucherek, PLLC15301 Spectrum Drive, Suite 300Addison, TX 75001

SE 4/17/2002

1



FDA-AAA

James L. Kelker

PrincipalMistras Group Inc.600 Kaiser DriveHeath, OH 43056Alternate: Wayne Travis Fister

RT 7/16/2003FDA-AAA

Kevin P. Kuntz

PrincipalInsurance Services Office, Inc.545 Washington BoulevardJersey City, NJ 07310-1686

I 03/07/2013

FDA-AAA

J. Roger Lackore

PrincipalOshkosh Corporation2307 Oregon StreetPO Box 2566Oshkosh, WI 53903-2566Alternate: Michael R. Moore

M 4/5/2001FDA-AAA

Thomas H. McCullough, II

PrincipalGlatfelter Claims Management, Inc.183 Leader Heights RoadYork, PA 17405Alternate: William F. Jenaway

I 1/12/2000

FDA-AAA

John W. McDonald

PrincipalUS General Services Administration9001 Brickyard RoadPotomac, MD 20854

E 1/1/1991FDA-AAA

J. Allen Metheny, Sr.

PrincipalHartly Volunteer Fire Company2484 Arthursville RoadHartly, DE 19953National Volunteer Fire CouncilAlternate: Kenneth Desmond

U 4/16/1999

FDA-AAA

Tom Mettler

PrincipalWaterous Company125 Hardman Avenue SouthSouth St. Paul, MN 55075-1191Alternate: Mark Haider

M 10/1/1996FDA-AAA

William C. Peters

PrincipalWC Peters Fire Apparatus Consulting Services, LLC552 Victory PlaceRiver Vale, NJ 07675

SE 4/4/1997

FDA-AAA

W. Michael Pietsch

PrincipalMike Pietsch, P.E. Consulting Services, Inc.3101 South Country Club RoadGarland , TX 75043-1311

SE 1/15/1999FDA-AAA

Gary R. Pope

PrincipalJohn H. Enders Fire Company, Inc. & Rescue Squad9 South Buckmarsh StreetBerryville, VA 22611Alternate: Robert L. Upchurch

U 1/1/1992

FDA-AAA

Edward C. Rice, Jr.

PrincipalDistrict of Columbia Fire Department2332 Golden Chapel RoadOdenton, MD 21113

U 8/2/2010FDA-AAA

James A. Salmi

PrincipalE-One, Inc.1861 Charter LaneLancaster, PA 17601Alternate: Stanley “Chip” Goodson, Jr.

M 1/1/1992

FDA-AAA

Jason Shivers

PrincipalForsyth County Fire Department3520 Settingdown RoadCumming, GA 30028-8823

U 10/28/2014FDA-AAA

Thomas A. Stalnaker

PrincipalGoshen Fire Company1560 Vassar CourtWest Chester, PA 19380-5752

U 7/12/2001

2



FDA-AAA

John M. Terefinko

PrincipalKME Fire ApparatusOne Industrial ComplexNesquehoning, PA 18240-1420Alternate: James T. Currin

M 4/5/2001FDA-AAA

Richard Tull

PrincipalHale Products Inc.607 NW 27th AvenueOcala, FL 34475-5623

M 10/27/2009

FDA-AAA

Stephen Wilde

PrincipalCertified Fleet Services, Inc.560 North Michigan StreetElmhurst, IL 60126EVT Certification Commission, Inc.Alternate: Michael L. Thorn

IM 7/28/2006FDA-AAA

James T. Currin

AlternateKME Fire Apparatus17058 Seibel Drive NERoanoke, VA 24012Principal: John M. Terefinko

M 7/12/2001

FDA-AAA

Jason Darley

AlternateW.S. Darley1051 Palmer StreetChippewa Falls, WI 54729Principal: Peter F. Darley

M 03/03/2014FDA-AAA

Kenneth Desmond

Alternate21 Aspen LaneBath, ME 04530-2200National Volunteer Fire CouncilPrincipal: J. Allen Metheny, Sr.

U 04/08/2015

FDA-AAA

Wayne Travis Fister

AlternateNational Testing/Mistras Group3550 SE 48th LaneOcala, FL 34480Principal: James L. Kelker

RT 10/29/2012FDA-AAA

Stanley “Chip” Goodson, Jr.

AlternateE-One, Inc.2929 SW 57th AvenueOcala, FL 34488Principal: James A. Salmi

M 03/03/2014

FDA-AAA

Clark A. Green

AlternateSutphen Corporation6450 Eiterman RoadDublin, OH 43016-8711Principal: James R. Garver

M 08/17/2015FDA-AAA

Mark Haider

AlternateWaterous Company125 Hardman Avenue SouthSouth St. Paul, MN 55075-1191Principal: Tom Mettler

M 10/29/2012

FDA-AAA

Stuart D. Insley

AlternateArlington County VA Fire Department2100 Clarendon Blvd., Suite 400Arlington, VA 22201-5445International Association of Fire ChiefsPrincipal: Clayton W. Fenwick

U 08/11/2014FDA-AAA

William F. Jenaway

AlternateVolunteer Firemen’s Insurance Services, Inc.102 Hunters Run RoadKing of Prussia, PA 19406Principal: Thomas H. McCullough, II

I 11/2/2006

FDA-AAA

James E. Johannessen

AlternateUL LLC141 Northridge AvenueLandisville, PA 17538-1914Principal: Thomas Hillenbrand

RT 7/24/1997

3



FDA-AAA

Dan W. McKenzie

AlternateUS Department of AgricultureForest ServiceSan Dimas Technology & Development Center750 Live Oak DriveEl Cajon, CA 92020-5634Principal: David V. Haston

RT 4/5/2001FDA-AAA

Michael R. Moore

AlternatePierce Manufacturing, Inc.2600 American DrivePO Box 2017Appleton, WI 54912-2017Principal: J. Roger Lackore

M 3/21/2006

FDA-AAA

Homer K. Robertson

AlternateFort Worth Fire Department2920 West Bolt StreetFort Worth, TX 76110Charlotte Fire DepartmentPrincipal: Walter C. Caldwell, Jr.

U 8/2/2010FDA-AAA

Mike Schoenberger

AlternateRosenbauer AmericaPO Box 549Wyoming, MN 55092Fire Apparatus Manufacturers AssociationPrincipal: David Durstine

M 3/1/2011

FDA-AAA

Michael L. Thorn

AlternateOregon Apparatus Repair, Inc.PO Box 42010Eugene, OR 97404EVT Certification Commission, Inc.Principal: Stephen Wilde

IM 7/28/2006FDA-AAA

Robert L. Upchurch

AlternateFairfax County Fire & Rescue Department9500 Debra Spradlin CourtBurke, VA 22015Principal: Gary R. Pope

U 7/26/2007

FDA-AAA

William H. Yohn

AlternateUS Department of the InteriorNational Park Servcie3833 South Development AvenueBoise, ID 83705National Wildfire Coordinating GroupPrincipal: Elden L. Alexander

E 3/1/2011FDA-AAA

Howard L. McMillen

Member Emeritus7013 Allen Place DriveFort Worth, TX 76116-9301

SE 1/1/1983

FDA-AAA

Kendall Holland

Staff LiaisonNational Fire Protection Association1 Batterymarch ParkQuincy, MA 02169-7471

03/26/2015

4

MEETING MINUTES First Draft Meeting

NFPA 1911, Standard for the Inspection, Maintenance, Testing, and Retirement of In-Service Automotive Fire Apparatus

13-14 May 2015 Drury Plaza Hotel San Antonio, TX

TC Members: Don Frazeur-TC Chair John McDonald- Secretary Walter Caldwell Ralph Dorio Clayton Fenwick Jim Garver, Sutphen Corporation- Voting Alternate Thomas Hillenbrand James Kelker Roger Lackore Thomas McCullough Allen Metheny Tom Mettler William Peters Gary Pope(called in) James Salmi Jason Shivers Thomas Stalnaker John Terefinko Richard Tull Stephen Wilde Jason Darley-Alternate Stuart Insley-Alternate Kevin Kuntz(called in)-Alternate Ken Holland-NFPA Staff Liaison Guests: Robert Manwaring, US Forest Service 13 May The full committee meeting was opened by Chair Donald Frazeur at 08:03 on 13 May. The Chair welcomed 2 new members to the committee Following the introduction of members and guests, opening remarks were given by the Chair

The minutes from the February 2015 Tele-meeting were presented and approved Ken Holland, staff liaison, reviewed administrative and safety procedures and gave an overview of the first draft process, electronic balloting, schedule for committee documents and legal issues. After processing public inputs, the committee took a break at 9:45 Task groups were formed to address the committee scope, tire speed ratings and the use of tensioning devices The Chair briefed the committee on the imminent severe weather conditions in the area Work public inputs resumed at 10:15. Discussion was held about the tire age retirement issue The committee broke for lunch at 11:45 Work resumed on inputs at 13:00 A 15 minute break was held during the afternoon Discussion was held about the scope of the document The meeting was adjourned at 17:20 14 May The Chair called the meeting to order at 08:02 and welcomed the new guest from UL Work resumed on inputs set aside from yesterday Following a break at 09:40, discussion was held about pump test criteria The committee broke for lunch from 11:40 to 12:40 Tom Mettler presented a re-write of the pump testing section to include UHP pumps The committee added several new inputs Roger Lackore presented a question on step horizontal offset in 1901 & 1906

Discussion was held about various types of hard suction hose and varying friction losses The next meeting date was discussed, possibly the 1st week of February 2016. The meeting was adjourned at 13:54 R/S John McDonald, Secretary-Technical Committee on Fire Department Apparatus

Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 1.1.2 ]

1.1.2

This standard includes guidelines for in-service municipal and industrial emergency vehicle refurbishmentand retirement.

Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Comment

Using the title "emergency vehicle" could open the standard up for restrictions on privately owned emergency vehicles (such as a firefighter driving his/her POV to the station while using lights/siren). The standard, including the title, need to be expressly clear about what apparatus it is standardizing. Adding "municipal and industrial" to the title and subsequent sections will ensure that this does not become a problem.

Related Public Comments for This Document

Related Comment Relationship

Public Comment No. 3-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 4.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]]

Related Item

Public Input No. 2-NFPA 1911-2013 [Chapter 7]

Submitter Information Verification

Submitter Full Name: IAN WISE

Organization: RACINE FIRE DEPT

Affilliation: Engineer/Operator

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Tue Sep 15 15:07:48 EDT 2015

National Fire Protection Association Report http://submittals.nfpa.org/TerraViewWeb/ContentFetcher?commentPara...

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1.1.2

This standard includes guidelines for emergency vehicle upgrade, refurbishment and retirement.


The standard should be applied not only to apparatus/vehicle refurbishment, but should include UPGRADES made to fire and emergency apparatus, as I believe this is now a "loophole" of sorts for departments to skirt around NFPA 1911 when making changes to their apparatus.

Related Item






Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



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Public Comment No. 3-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 4.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]

]

All fire municipal and industrial emergency vehicles apparatus that could be placed in service foremergency response shall be inspected, maintained, tested, and retired as required by this standard.


Using the term "vehicle" would lead the end user to believe that this standard applies only to that which is used to carry personnel upon a highway/road. Though there is a separate standard for wildland fire apparatus, it should be made expressly clear that this standard applies to all apparatus, in the case one would be manufactured for off-highway use only.



Public Comment No. 2-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 1.1.2] Discusses the same/similar issues.

Related Item






Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



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Public Comment No. 19-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 4.3.1 [Excluding any

Sub-Sections] ]

Inspections, maintenance, and testing ofemergency of emergency vehicles shall be performed by qualifiedpersonnel as required by 4.3.1.1 or 4.3.1.2.


needed space between of and emergency vehicle.

Related Item

Public Input No. 76-NFPA 1911-2014 [Section No. 1.2.1]


Submitter Full Name: Stephen Wilde

Organization: Certified Fleet Services, Inc.

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Mon Sep 28 13:50:28 EDT 2015


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Public Comment No. 6-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 4.5.4.2 ]

4.5.4.2

A check sheet shall be utilized to record the results of the visual and operational checks. (See Annex C.)


the words "visual and" were not included in first draft, but were part of the original input # 37.

Related Item

Public Input No. 37-NFPA 1911-2014 [Sections 4.5.4.1, 4.5.4.2]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Thu Sep 24 11:56:30 EDT 2015


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4.5.5.1

A complete inspection and diagnostic check of the emergency vehicles in accordance with Chapter 8 shallbe conducted at least as frequently as recommended by the emergency vehicle manufacturer or twice ayear, whichever comes first.


missing a space between 8 and shall

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Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Fri Sep 25 14:47:59 EDT 2015


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Public Comment No. 7-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 6.1.6 [Excluding any

Sub-Sections] ]

If a component or system on the fire apparatus is out of service, but the apparatus is still in service, ameans shall be provided on the fire apparatus to immediately identify for the driver/operator whichcomponent or system is out of service.


the original language was intended to eliminate the possibility of the out-of-service component of being turned on we need to put the original language back in to make sure that the listed systems are disabled.

Related Item

Public Input No. 48-NFPA 1911-2014 [Section No. 6.1.6.3]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



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Public Comment No. 22-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 16.4 ]

16.4 Trailer Electrical and Lighting.

All trailer electrical systems and lighting shall be inspected and maintained to the applicable requirementsof Chapter 8 Chapter 9 of this document.


This section points to the wrong chapter 8 instead of chapter 9 for low voltage systems.

Related Item

Public Input No. 36-NFPA 1911-2014 [New Section after 6.10.3]




Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Tue Oct 20 07:14:10 EDT 2015


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20.7.1

If the emergency vehicle is equipped with a battery charger or conditioner, it shall be tested as follows:

(1) Batteries shall be fully charged to at least 12.66 volts for a 12-volt nominal system, 25.32 volts for a24-volt nominal system, and 44.31 volts for a 42-volt nominal system before starting the test.

(2) Engine shall be turned off, and the shoreline power cord shall be attached.

(3) Record battery voltage at the beginning of the test.

(4) Apply a load of at least 80 percent of nominal charger output for 1 hour.

(5) Remove the load and record battery voltage at end of test.

(6) The battery charger test shall fail be considered a failure if the charger does not maintain batteryvoltage of at least 12.54 volts or higher for a 12-volt nominal system, 25.02 volts or higher for a 24-voltnominal system, and 43.75 volts or higher for a 42-volt nominal system.


The sentence did not make sense as written, changed back to original input # 52

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Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Tue Oct 20 07:38:55 EDT 2015


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21.3.1* Test Site from Draft.

The test site shall be adjacent to a supply of clear water, with the water level such that the lift from thesurface of the water to the center of the pump intake connection is not greater than the maximum lift shownin NFPA 1901, Table 16.2.4.1 (a) and is close enough to allow the suction strainer to be submerged at least2 ft (0.6 m) below the surface of the water.


No table was listed in the first draft. Referencing the table, or adding it to new chapter 21, will confirm that suction hose size and number of hose will not exceedthose indicated in Table 16.2.4.1(a) when conducting a fire pump test at draft.

Related Item

First Revision No. 35-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 18.5.1.1 [Excluding any Sub-Sections]]


Submitter Full Name: James Glatts

Organization: FireOne

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Mon Nov 16 07:20:23 EST 2015


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21.5.2.3

To ascertain if the hose and coupling are starting to separate, the hose shall be marked immediately behind

each coupling. If the hose stretches from the coupling more than 3 ⁄ 8 in. (10 mm), assembly shows anysign of couplingslippage,

the test shall be stopped and that section of hose shall be replaced.


This wording is exactly from NFPA 1962. There is no measurement of coupling stretching or slippage in the fire hose standards. The 3/8 inch measurement should be removed.

Related Item

First Revision No. 36-NFPA 1911-2015 [New Section after 18.5.2.1]




Affilliation: member, NFPA Committe on Fire Hose

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:



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21.5.5.1

All test gauges shall have been calibrated within 60 days preceding the tests. shall be calibrated at leastannually, if damaged or accuracy is in question, in accordance with ASME B40.100.


Larger fire department's, service centers, dealerships or testing agency's that perform pump testing on a monthly basis would have to get their gauges calibrated every 60 days the way the standard is written currently. With this change it will comply with ASME B40.100 as far as calibration intervals.

Related Item

Public Input No. 59-NFPA 1911-2014 [Chapter E]


Submitter Full Name: Wayne Fister

Organization: National Testing/Mistras Group

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Submittal Date: Sun Nov 08 18:06:08 EST 2015


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21.7.7 Pumping Tests.

21.7.7.1 Wildland and Ultra High-Pressure Fire Pumps.

21.7.7.1.1

Wildland fire pumps and ultra high-pressure pumps shall be subjected to a 30-minute pumping testconsisting of continuous pumping at rated capacity at rated net pump pressure.

21.7.7.1.2

The flow, discharge pressure, intake pressure, and engine speed shall be recorded at least every 15minutes but not fewer than three times for each test sequence.

21.7.7.2

If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 250 gpm (1000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000 gpm (12,000L/min), the pump shall be subjected to a pumping test consisting of the following:

(1) At least 20 minutes of pumping at 100 percent of rated capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pumppressure


(3) At least 10 minutes of pumping 50 percent of rated capacity at 250 psi (1700 kPa) net pumppressure

21.7.7.3 Overload Test.

21.7.7.3.1

If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 750 gpm (3000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000 gpm (12,000L/min), the pump shall be subjected to an overload test consisting of pumping rated capacity at 165 psi(1100 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.7.3.2

The overload test shall be performed immediately following the test of pumping at rated capacity at 150 psi(1000 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.7.4 *

If the fire pump or industrial supply pump has a rated capacity of 3000 gpm (12,000 L/min) or greater, thepump shall be subjected to a pumping test consisting of the following:



(3) At least 10 minutes of pumping 50 percent of rated capacity at 200 psi (1400 kPa) net pumppressure

21.7.7.5

The pumping test shall not be started until the pump pressure and the discharge flow are stabilized.


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21.7.7.6 *

If the pump is a two-stage, parallel/series-type pump, the following criteria shall apply:

(1) The test at 100 percent of capacity shall be run with the pump in parallel mode.

(2) The test at 70 percent of capacity shall be permitted to be run with the pump in either series orparallel mode.

(3) The test at 50 percent of capacity shall be run with the pump in series mode.

21.7.7.7

The engine shall not be throttled down, except when the hose, a nozzle, or the position of a transfer valveis being changed.

21.7.7.8

A complete set of readings shall be taken and recorded a minimum of five times during the 20-minute testfor 100 percent rated capacity, a minimum of twice during the overload test, and a minimum of three timesduring each of the 10-minute tests for 70 percent capacity and 50 percent capacity.

21.7.7.9

If the fire pump flow or pressure readings vary by more than 5 percent during a particular test, the reasonfor the fluctuation shall be determined, the cause corrected, and the test continued or repeated.

Additional Proposed Changes

File Name Description Approved

21.7.7_Pump_Tests.docxProposed changes are to clarify and reorgainize the requirements of the various types of pumps covered within the pumping test section.


The text as revised in the First Draft for section 21.7.7 does not provide clear distinctions of the tests for the various types of pumps now covered by NFPA 1911.

The proposed text organizes and separates the requirements for wildland and ultra-high pressure fire pumps from the "regular" fire pumps and industrial supply pumps that existed during the 2003 edition of 1901. The proposed text also attempts to overcome the confusion to the reader of the standard that the NFPA Style Guide creates in dictating which text is highlighted in bold. This was done by organizing the text so that both the wildland and ultra-high pressure section heading and the fire pumps and industrial supply pumps heading are bold while removing the bold heading for the overload test, which is simply a part of the fire pump test.. The proposed text doesn't create and new or changed requirements; it just reorganizes the requirements.



Public Comment No. 58-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. A.21.7.7.6]

Related Item

First Revision No. 56-NFPA 1911-2015 [Sections 18.7.7, 18.7.8, 18.7.9, 18.7.10]


Submitter Full Name: TOM METTLER

Organization: WATEROUS COMPANY

Street Address:

City:

State:

Zip:


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Submittal Date: Sat Nov 07 10:40:02 EST 2015


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21.7.7 Pumping Tests

21.7.7.1 Wildland and Ultra-High Pressure Fire Pumps

21.7.7.1.1 Wildland fire pumps and ultra-high pressure fire pumps shall be subjected to a 30-minute

pumping test consisting of continuous pumping at rated capacity at rated net pump pressure.

21.7.7.1.2 The flow, discharge pressure, intake pressure, and engine speed shall be recorded at least

every 15 minutes but not fewer than three times for each test sequence.

21.7.7.2 Fire Pumps and Industrial Supply Pumps

21.7.7.2.1 If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 250 gpm (1000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000

gpm (12,000 L/min), the pump shall be subjected to the pumping test consisting of the following:

(1) At least 20 minutes of pumping at 100 percent of rated capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pump

pressure

(2) 21.7.7.3.1 Overload test.

(a) If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 750 gpm (3000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000

gpm (12,000 L/min), the pump shall be subjected to an overload test consisting of pumping

rated capacity at 165 psi (1100 kPa) net pump pressure for at least 5 minutes.

(b)The overload test shall immediately following the pumping test at rated capacity at 150 psi

(1100 kPa) net pump pressure.

(23) At least 10 minutes of pumping at 70 percent of rated capacity at 200 psi (1400 kPa) net pump

pressure

(34) At least 10 minutes of pumping 50 percent of rated capacity at 250 psi (1700 kPa) net pump

pressure

21.7.7.3Overload Test

21.7.7.3.1 If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 750 gpm (3000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000

gpm (12,000 L/min), the pump shall be subjected to an overload test consisting of pumping rated

capacity at 165 psi (1100 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.7.32.2.2 The overload test shall be performed immediately following the test of pumping at rated

capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.7.42.2 If the fire pump or industrial supply pump has a rated capacity of 3000 gpm (12,000 L/min)

or greater, the pump shall be subjected to the pumping test consisting of the following:

(1) At least 20 minutes of pumping at 100 percent of rated capacity at 100 psi (700 kPa) net pump pressure (2) At least 10 minutes of pumping at 70 percent of rated capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pump pressure (3) At least 10 minutes of pumping 50 percent of rated capacity at 200 psi (1400 kPa) net pump pressure)

21.7.7.2.3*21.7.7.6* If the fire pump or industrial supply pump is a two-stage, parallel/series-type

pump, the following criteria shall apply:


(2) The test at 70 percent of capacity shall be permitted to be run with the pump in either series or

parallel mode.


21.7.7.2.4 21.7.7.8 A complete set of readings shall be taken and recorded a minimum of five times

during the 20-minute test for 100 percent rated capacity, a minimum of twice during the overload test

if performed, and a minimum of three times during each of the 10-minute tests for 70 percent

capacity and 50 percent capacity.

21.7.7.53 The prescribed duration of the pumping tests shall not be started until the pump pressure and

the discharge quantity are stabilized at the current prescribed values.

18.7.7.6* If the pump is a two-stage, parallel/series-type pump, the following criteria shall apply:


(2) The test at 70 percent of capacity shall be permitted to be run with the pump in either series or

parallel mode.


21.7.7.74 The engine shall not be throttled down, except when the hose, a nozzle, or the position of a

transfer valve is being changed.

21.7.7.8 A complete set of readings shall be taken and recorded a minimum of five times during the

20-minute test for 100 percent rated capacity, a minimum of twice during the overload test, and a

minimum of three times during each of the 10-minute tests for 70 percent capacity and 50 percent

capacity.

21.7.7.7.95 If the fire pump flow rate or pressure readings vary by more than 5 percent during a

particular test, the reason for the fluctuation shall be determined, the cause corrected, and the test

continued or repeated.


21.7.8.1 Wildland Fire Pumps.

21.7.8.1.1

The wildland fire pump shall be operated to deliver rated capacity at rated net pump pressure.

21.7.8.1.2

If a pressure control system is supplied, it shall be set in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions tomaintain the discharge at rated net pump pressure + /− 5 percent.

21.7.8.1.3

All discharge valves shall be closed not more rapidly than in 3 seconds and not more slowly than in 10seconds.

21.7.8.1.4

The rise in discharge pressure shall not exceed 60 psi (400 kPa) and shall be recorded.


This section provides the requirements for wildland fire pumps and therefore the section heading should be changed accordingly to Wildland Fire Pumps.



Public Comment No. 55-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 21.7.8.2]

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21.7.8.2 Fire Pumps

If the fire pump has a rated capacity of 250 gpm (3000 L/min) or greater but less than 3000 gpm (12,000L/min), the pressure control device shall be tested at rated capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pumppressure as specified in 21.7.8.2.1 through 21.7.8.2.4.

21.7.8.2.1

The pump shall be delivering rated capacity at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.8.2.2

The pressure control device shall be set in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions to maintain thedischarge at 150 psi (1000 kPa) net pump pressure.

21.7.8.2.3 *

All discharge valves shall be closed no faster than in 3 seconds and no slower than in 10 seconds.

21.7.8.2.4

The rise in discharge pressure shall not exceed 30 psi (200 kPa).


This section provides requirements for fire pumps so therefore should have the heading Fire Pumps in bold. This will complement the format or style of section 21.7.8.which will make more clear for the reader of the standard.



Public Comment No. 54-NFPA 1911-2015 [SectionNo. 21.7.8.1]

Both comments address the headings forcomplementary secitons.

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Public Comment No. 56-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 21.7.8.5.3 ]

21.7.8.5.3

The pressure control device shall be tested at 50 percent of rated pump capacity at 200 psi (1400 kPa) netpump pressure as follows:

(1) The pump shall be delivering 0 50 percent of rated capacity at 200 psi (1400 kPa) net pumppressure.

(2) The pressure control device shall be set in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions tomaintain the discharge at 200 psi (1400 kPa) net pump pressure.

(3) All discharge valves shall be closed no more rapidly than in 3 seconds and no more slowly than in 10seconds.

(4) The rise in discharge pressure shall not exceed 30 psi (200 kPa).


The First Revision is in error. This section deals with operating the pump at 50% capacity. Suspect this was a transcription error in preparation of the First Revision document. Document submitted at San Antonio had 50%.

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21.8.3*

The results of all tests of the pump system shall be recorded, and the results shall be compared with theresults of previous tests. If the engine RPM is 10% or more than the original tests the reason for theincrease should be identified and corrected.

Reason. The conditons of the test can change the engine RPM. But the increase could also be caused bywear or problems in the Engine, Transmission, or Pump. The pump test results need to be closely tracked, finding problems in any of these systems early can prevent costly repairs or downgrading pumps at a laterdate.

Even though this is mentioned in the annex it is important enough to be mentioned directly in the standard.


The 10 % wear is important enough to be mentioned and tracked in the standard not the annex

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Submitter Full Name: RICHARD RUBO

Organization: BATAVIA FIRE

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Submittal Date: Mon Oct 12 21:21:00 EDT 2015


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21.8.4

If the engine speed required to meet the any of the test points during the pumping test exceeds by 10percent the engine speed on the test label attached to the apparatus, the pump shall be repaired orreplaced.


The current wording does not allow for any varience in engine RPM. The Fire Pump will always perform a "Little bit differant" from original due to normal wear, water temperature, air temperature, elevation, atmospheric conditions and even fuel type, winter blend or summer blend. Ten Percent (10%) has always used in the past for an acceptable RPM varience. Should this current wording stay then a FD may repalce/rebuild a fire pump that was deficient by fire percent (5%) and spend thousands of dollars to achieve nothing. It is not reasonable to not allow at least a ten (10%) allowance on engine RPM.Thank You Alan ConkleOAEVT Executive Director

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First Revision No. 5-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 6.3.1]


Submitter Full Name: Alan Conkle

Organization: Ohio Association of Emergency

Affilliation: OAEVT

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21.8.4

If the engine speed required to meet the meet any of the test points during the pumping test exceeds theengine speed on the test label attached to the apparatus, the pump shall be repaired or replaced.


Editorial change. Remove extra "the" from sentence to make it read better.

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21

.

8.4

If the engine speed required to meet the any of the test points during the pumping test exceeds the enginespeed on the test label attached to the apparatus, the pump shall be repaired or replaced.


Section 21.8.4 should be deleted. This is out of service criteria covered in section 6.9.4. Regarding engine speed, Annex B of NFPA 1911 lists at least 17 reasons for excessive engine speed or engine speed differences (B2.3. B2.4 and B2.6). Proposed chapter 21 of NFPA 1911 allows a +/- flow rate accuracy measurement of 5 % (21.5.3.1) and an engine speed accuracy measurement of +/- 50 rpms (21.5.6). Having a flat out statement that a pump should be repaired or replaced because annual performance test results do not match the original acceptance test data is just too restrictive and not realistic and open to subjective opinion. Proposed section 21.8.4 will just make it too easy for someone to "fail" a pump. In order to match the acceptance test data on the pump plate all environmental conditions alone would have to be met. The bottom line on an annual fire pump performance test is that the pump can operate to its original design flow and pressure even with somewhat higher engine speed. As a pump wears over the years the engine speed will increase, especially on pumps that use non-potable water sources, and at some point will no longer be able to operate to its 165 psi overload pressure. Section 6.9.4 covers that eventuality.

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First Revision No. 57-NFPA 1911-2015 [New Section after 18.8.3]




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21.8.4

If the engine speed required to meet the any of the test points during the pumping test exceeds 10 % ofthe engine speed listed on the test label attached to the apparatus, the pump shall be repaired or replaced.


The committee should set a percentage of difference in RPM to perform any of the test points during the pump performance test. The additional RPM required to make the flow and pressure readings could indicate a decrease in pump performance. However, it just could be caused by a difference in ambient pressure, elevation, setup, equipment and / or water source from when the original test was done. The 10 % increase in rpm from the pump panel data plate has been in the pump testing standard for many years. I have been pump testing for 40 years and have always used the 10 % increase in rpm to let my customers know that something has to be done with the pump. Pump testing in the field is much different then pump testing at the manufacturer’s test pits. Those pits are permanently setup for testing to perform the tests as quickly and efficiently as possible. In-service pump testing is done under varying conditions, with different equipment, different setups and even different water sources. Any one of these differences can change the outcome of the test. If we require that the RPM match the data plate many pumps with minor wear will have to be disassembled and at least inspected or at worst rebuilt, with minimal results. Since the first draft meeting, I have ask many technicians and mechanics associations “What increase in rpm do you use to determine when a fire pump must be repaired?”. All of them said 10 % and many of them thought that it was in the pump testing standard, so that is what they used. Since 10 % has been in the standard either in the body or in the annex since at least 1997, we should require it.

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Submittal Date: Fri Sep 25 14:07:40 EDT 2015


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22.8.7.1 *

Tests shall be conducted when the wind velocity is less than 10 mph (16 km/hr) or not to exceed themanufacturer's specifications for safe operations .


Many of the aerial ladder manufacturer's specifications wind conditions exceed the 10 mph winds. If an aerial is safe for emergency personnel to operate in winds exceeding 10 mph then the load tests should also be performed under these wind conditions.

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22.9.11.2

The operation of the elevating platform shall include, but not be limited to, movement of the platform fromground to maximum elevation, as well as revolving rotating the platform 360 degrees to the left and to theright while the unit is at its maximum horizontal reach vertical height .


Most manufacturer's refer to rotation rather than revolving. It is virtually impossible to rotate an aerial platform at it's maximum horizontal reach due to obstructions like telephone poles, power poles, trees, buildings, etc.. Most aerials are tested at the fire station, maintenance shop or dealership / service center and not an open field with no ground obstructions in the area.

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Public Input No. 65-NFPA 1911-2014 [Section No. 19.9.9.5]




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Submittal Date: Thu Nov 12 09:50:02 EST 2015


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Public Comment No. 63-NFPA 1911-2015 [ New Section after 22.9.14 ]

22.9.14.7 Water Curtain

22.9.14.7.1 The water curtain control shall be identified for function and direction.

22.9.14.7.2 The water curtain shall be inspected for proper function and operation with a minimum of 100psi water pressure to produce the proper fog pattern.

22.9.14.7.3 Any water curtain that is found not capable of producing the proper fog pattern shall berepaired or replaced.


All platforms have some type of water curtain providing device but it is not addressed in this standard.

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Public Comment No. 62-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. 22.9.14.6.2 ]

22.9.14.6.2

Any relief valve that fails to operate within 10 psi (70 kPa) of the manufacturer’s required setting or lowershall be repaired, recalibrated, or replaced.


Many fire departments want their waterway pressure relief valves set below the manufacturer's specifications. Example: Manufacturer specifications 250 psi, fire department personnel want it set at 200 psi. This should be an acceptable practice for fire departments.

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25.3.2If the emergency vehicle is equipped with an invertor, the invertor shall be loaded to 95% of therated output of the invertor.


Several of the requirements for both the annual and 5 year full load test either can not be meant or will not fully test an invertor. For the annual test, In section 25.3.2 we state “The power source shall be tested using the electrical loads typically carried on the emergency vehicle connected simultaneously, up to the limit specified in 25.3.3". In an ambulance the loads carried on an ambulance might be phone chargers and other low amp draw battery chargers, etc. By using only the equipment carried on the ambulance the invertor will not be tested fully. This is one reason we need to have a separate invertor test. Also, in-service tests should match the test at time of manufacturing, if not we are not truly testing the performance of the invertor system. During the full load test in section 25.7.4.6 we say the frequency and voltage shall be measured once the power source is completely unloaded. Some invertors shut off without a load applied so you would not be able to do the no load test.



Public Comment No. 13-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 25.3.2]

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25.3.2

The power source shall Power sources other than invertors shall be tested using the electrical loadstypically carried on the emergency vehicle connected simultaneously, up to the limit specified in 25.3.3.


Several of the requirements for both the annual and 5 year full load test either can not be meant or will not fully test an invertor. For the annual test, In section 25.3.2 we state “The power source shall be tested using the electrical loads typically carried on the emergency vehicle connected simultaneously, up to the limit specified in 25.3.3". In an ambulance the loads carried on an ambulance might be phone chargers and other low amp draw battery chargers, etc. By using only the equipment carried on the ambulance the invertor will not be tested fully. This is one reason we need to have a separate invertor test. Also, in-service tests should match the test at time of manufacturing, if not we are not truly testing the performance of the invertor system. During the full load test in section 25.7.4.6 we say the frequency and voltage shall be measured once the power source is completely unloaded. Some invertors shut off without a load applied so you would not be able to do the no load test.



Public Comment No. 12-NFPA 1911-2015 [New Section after 25.3.1]



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25.3.6

When the power souce is an invertor the voltage, frequency, and load shall be measured andrecorded at the following times:

(1) At the beginning of the test after load is applied

(2) After 10 minutes under test load


Needed to add a new sections to cover invertors.




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25.3.5

The For power sources other than invertors the voltage, frequency, and load shall be measured andrecorded at the following times:

(1) At the beginning of the test under no load conditions

(2) After the test load has been applied

(3) After 10 minutes under test load

(4) At the end of the test when the test load has been removed


Because some invertors shut off after loads are removed it is not possible to test voltage and frequency with no load, we need to add a separate section for invertors.




Public Comment No. 15-NFPA 1911-2015 [New Section after 25.3.5]

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Public Comment No. 18-NFPA 1911-2015 [ New Section after 25.7.4.1 ]

25.7.1.2 When the power souce is an invertor the voltage, frequency, and load shall be measuredand recorded after the load is applied.


Some invertors do not turn on until the load is applied.




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25.7.4.1

The power source For power sources other than invertors, the power souce shall be started with no load,and the voltage and frequency shall be measured and recorded.


Some invertors shut off without a load applied so you would not be able to do the no load test.





Public Comment No. 18-NFPA 1911-2015 [New Section after 25.7.4.1]

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25.7.4.6

The power For power sources other then invertors, the power source shall be completely unloaded, andthe voltage and frequency shall be measured and recorded.


Some invertors shut off without a load applied so you would not be able to do the no load test.




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Public Comment No. 58-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. A.21.7.7.6 ]

A.21.7.7. 6 2.3

If the pump is a two-stage, parallel/series-type unit, then operation of the transfer (that is, changeover)valve should be checked thoroughly. Conducting the pumping test with the transfer valve positioned asspecified in 21.7.7.5 2.3 will ensure that the valve is exercised. If a If comparison with the original enginespeeds shows a significant difference for any of the tests, one of the problems could be with the transfervalve.


Number change to match new main body text numbering as submitted in PC 53. Removed the "a" as editorial change.



Public Comment No. 53-NFPA 1911-2015 [Section No. 21.7.7] Annex section related to change in PC 53.

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Public Comment No. 1-NFPA 1911-2015 [ Section No. A.22.9.9.5 ]

A.22.9.9.5

The proper tensioning of extension and retraction cables of an aerial device is very important to insure thesmooth and safe operation of the aerial. When cable tension is too loose, the cable can jump the sheavewheel causing damage. When tension is too tight, the cable can cause damage to the sheave groove andbearings, which can damage the pulley and the cable. The manufacturers of aerial devices have differentmethods to determine that proper cable tensions are achieved. It is important that the manufacturer’sguidelines are strictly followed for establishing cable tension. Cable tension is best measured using atensiometer. The manufacturers of aerial devices are encouraged to provide the user with acceptabletensiometer readings for each cable. Determining cable tension with human finger pressure should beavoided, as it is a less than accurate practice.


Manufacturers need to be encouraged to utilize technology instead of human touch to determine the correct tension of aerial cables.

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Public Input No. 66-NFPA 1911-2014 [New Section after 19.8.6.14]

Public Input No. 67-NFPA 1911-2014 [New Section after 19.9.9.5]


Submitter Full Name: Thomas Wood

Organization: Boca Raton Fire Rescue Service

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Documents

NFPA Technical Committee on Fire Department Apparatus€¦ · M4/1/1993 FDA-AAA David Durstine Principal Akron Brass Company 343 Venture Boulevard Wooster, OH 44691 Fire Apparatus