Minutes of 9/11 Commission Meeting on June 5, 2003

8/14/2019 Minutes of 9/11 Commission Meeting on June 5, 2003

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FO R OFFICIAL U SE ONLYCOMM ISSION SENS ITIVENATIONAL COMMISSION ONTERRORIST ATTACKS UP ON TH E UNITED STATES

Minutes of th e June 5, 2003 MeetingThe Chair called the Com mission to order at 8:34 AM on June 5,2003. Chairman Kean,Vice-Chair H amilton, and Commissioners Ben-Veniste, Fielding, Gorelick, Gorton,Lehman, Roem er, and Thompson w ere present.FBI & CIA Briefings. The F BI provided a Secret-level briefing on the Bureau's ongoingPENTTBOM investigation. The CIA provided a Top Secret briefing summ arizing theiranalysis of the 9-11 plot and plotters. Representatives of both agencies remained presentto answer Commissioner questions.Minutes. Comm issioner Roem er moved to approve the minutes of the May 21-22meeting. Commissioner Ben-Veniste requested that the footnote to the minutes beremoved and, after the meeting, he secured agreement to this request. The m inutes wereapproved.Information Access. The Executive D irector described a major document request thatthe Comm ission had subm itted to the E xecutive Office of the P resident (EO P ). Therequest reflected prior negotiations w ith Adam Ciongoli on behalf of the White H ouse.The request was com prehensive in its coverage of NSC and other Wh ite H ouse meetinginputs and outputs that were distributed to the meeting participants, as well as meetingminutes w hether distributed or not. The Executive D irector noted that the Commissionwould be making a further request to cover necessary internal W hite H ouse or NSCdocuments as well. Comm issioner R oemer and others stressed the importance of thesedocuments.The Vice C hair inquired a bout the significance of the September 20, 2001 cut-off date asnoted in the EO P document request. The E xecutive D irector noted that this was a usefulpunctuation point for covering the "immediate response" to the attacks, marking the endof the initial wave of domestic and foreign policy moves, several of w hich w ereannounced that day in the President's address to Congress.Com missioner Roem er asked why the Comm ission had agreed to 9/20, noting that he sawno qualitative difference in 11/20 versus 9/20. The Chair expressed his appreciation ofCommissioner Roemer's position, and noted that there are practical limitations on stafftime and resources. In addition, the Chair noted that there is value in the Com mission notappearing to be a fishing expedition. The E xecutive D irector noted that 9/20 w as arelatively broad definition for the term "immediate response," which many tended toequate with emergency response on 9/11 itself. But that Commissioner Roem er'sconcern could also be addressed through the Commission's additional mandate to review,identify, and evaluate the lessons learned from the attacks and make recomm endationsfor the future. The General Counsel suggested that the decision to use 9/20 was tactical.

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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMM ISSION SENSITIVECommissioner Roemer replied that the Joint Inquiry did not put an end-date on itsrequests and that the Com mission should m aintain its flexibility. Com missioner B en-Veniste observed that the Commission should not be foreclosed from requestinginformation from the White House after 9/20, and expressed his concern about setting aprecedent. He asked if it was clear to the White House that the Commission is entitled to,and will, make requests for, information beyond September 20, 2001. The ExecutiveDirector and General Counsel stated that the Commission had established a clear legalposition on post-9/20 requests, and that it will be entitled to documents relating to lessonslearned.Com missioner Fielding inquired about the significance of the January 1,1998 start datefor full-scale documentary investigation. The Executive Director made four points: 1)Early in that year the Clinton administration adopted the basic structural approach itwould use in the war on terrorism for the remainder of its term in office, in the PDD -62docum ent signed in March 1998; 2) Also in early 1998, U sam a bin Laden issued his firstpublic fatwa and 1998 was the year in which the 9/11 plot appears to have been hatched;3) The period allowed the Comm ission to set the context before and after the watershedpre-9/11 event, the August 1998 attacks on the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam; and 4) the 1998 start-date was a general guide, but was and would be adjustedwhere particular investigatory leads required documents going further back. The Chairreiterated that the Commission is not chronologically tied down at either end of theinvestigation.The General Counsel noted that the Commission has given the White House three weeksto comply with the docum ent request because of its need to review docum ents forexecutive privilege. He added that they m ight need a bit more time to produce their N SCdocuments and that providing documents from the Clinton administration may take moretime due to their storage at the National A rchives and the provisions of the P residentialRecords Act.Comm issioner Roem er noted that it would be important to request spec ific inform ationfrom Dick Clarke, including his emails and notes, and to interview individuals in TNT[the Transnational Threats Directorate of the NSC staff] and the more current Office forCom bating Terrorism such as [Roger] Cressey, [Lisa Gordon-] Hagerty, [Steven] Simon,and [Daniel] Benjamin.Commissioner Gorelick asked if the information covered by the EOF request wouldinclude intelligence coming from the CIA and the FBI regarding the nature of the threat.The Executive Director responded that such requests would be directed to the agency thathad originated the documents. Commissioner Gorelick also inquired as to whether theW hite House conducted its own look-back, especially in light of Rice's M ay 2002 pressconference, and the docum ent from which she had spoke at the time. She stated that theComm ission should request such documents. The Execu tive Director said that he knew ofno such after-action review by the W hite H ouse.

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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMMISSION SENSITIVERegarding outstanding document requests, Commissioner Ben-Veniste asked if therewere an y indication of delays or problems with full compliance. The General Counselresponded that the FAA and Department of Defense were the only agencies, to date, thathad missed a deadline, bu t that staff was wo rking with both agencies to ensure moreprompt compliance.The Executive Director announced that the staff had drafted a request for detaineedocuments. He noted that the Commission has asked the executive branch to coordinate aresponse by the recipients of the detainee document requestCIA, FBI, or DoD. H eadded that the Commission was seeking information on the M oussaoui-related aspects ofthe investigation and that the Justice Department lawyers were developing a plan thatwould allow them to be responsive, consistent w ith the applicable court orders.The Vice Chair observed that the staff ha d done a good job with respect to documentrequests, and that the EOF request was a giant step forward on the Commission's behalf.Interviews. The General Counsel reminded Commissioners of their previous decision toprohibit the presence of minders in official interviews. He recommended that theCommission maintain this basic position, but added that the staff remains veryambivalent about recordings. The General Counsel suggested that the Commission maywant to consider an exception to its reluctance to allow agency representatives to attendinterviews in the case of high-ranking policy officials. He noted further that it will bedifficult to conduct interviews with foreign intelligence agencies without such 'minders'being present because of agency concerns about potential compromise of sources andmethods. This exception w ould apply only to Intelligence Comm unity elements.Commissioner Ben-Veniste urged that it should be the sense of the Commission that theFBI should not be included in this exception.Joint Inquiry. The General Counsel noted Chairman Goss's previously stated intentionto provide the report or some alternative by the end of May. The General Counselobserved that the delivery of the report seemed, at best, to be weeks away. He noted thatthe Chair an d Vice Chair have to make a judgment as to whether they should push Gosson his vague alternative. The Vice Chair and Commissioner Gorelick suggested that thereshould be an exchange of letters mak ing a record of the delay, ex plaining the situation,and tying Chairman Goss dow n to something specific.The General Counsel stated that the CIA did not keep a second set of Agency documentsprovided to the Joint Inquiry. The Executive Director noted that the executive branch hasbeen sharp ly critical of the Joint Inquiry's inability to provide its copies of CIAdocuments to the Commission. He added that the Commission is now seeking to obtain acopy of these documents directly from the Joint Inquiry; however, the Joint Inquiry'sposition is that the Commission can't review these documents because they are mixedwith privileged internal communications. The General Counsel noted that the JointInquiry has offered to redact the index of CIA documents, bu t that this route w ould provetoo slow. He concluded tha t the Com mission has revisited this issue with Ada m Ciongoli,

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FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOMMISSION SENSITIVErequesting that the CIA make copies for the Commission of many of the documents it hadalready copied for the Joint Inquiry. The Joint Inqu iry was simp ly incapable of providingwhat was needed with sufficient speed.Clearances. Commissioner Ben-Veniste expressed his concern that 25% o f the staff havenot received their security clearances. The Executive D irector explained that with theexception of a few individuals, the still-uncleared staff are the Commission's most recenthires.Special Government Employees. Commissioner Gorton reported that Senator Greggha d agreed to include in the Com merce, State, Justice, and Judiciary appropriations billan exemption for Commissioners as SGEs, which would remove the 130-day annual limiton work by Commissioners.Press Guidelines. The Chair noted two concerns: leaks and the appearance of divisionwithin the Com mission.Commissioners Ben-Veniste and Gorelick agreed that they do not want internaldisagreements played out in the press. Commissioner Gorelick stated her belief thatbarring the Com missioners from talking to the press puts the Comm ission at adisadvantage and prevents the Com missioners from utilizin g their relationships with thepress. Sh e added that it would be helpful to relay questions to the Commission 's PressDeputy, Al Felzenberg, so that the Com mission kn ows what questions are being asked.Commissioner R oemer stated his belief that Commissioners should not have to clearevery public statement with the Press Deputy. He believed that Comm issioners need toremain nonpartisan and constructive in their com ments in order to maintain trust andgood working relations among the Comm issioners.Commissioner Fielding urged the Commission to consider the practice followed by theAGA Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary, which directs all press comment tothe Chair only; acknowledging that while this might be unattractive to some, it worksvery efficiently and effectively.The Vice Chair observed that press commentary impacts the Commission's interactionswith the executive branch, n oting that Judge Gonzales had raised two specific examples.The Vice Chair added that, based on previous discussions, he is uneasy with the notionthat the Chair and Vice Chair are the sole spokesmen for the Commission. He askedCommissioners to use their good judgment and to be careful about divisive comments.Public Hearings. The Chair questioned some of the locations and topics of proposedhearings, noting the tremendous staff time that public hearings take. Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggested that the Commission work backwards when considering what the mostimportant hearings are. The Vice Chair recommended that the Commissioners study theproposed schedule and provide their comments to the staff.

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FO R OFFICIAL USE ONLYCOM MISSION SENSITIVECommissioner Ben-Veniste suggested that there be an after-action discussion for the M ay22-23 public hearing. Th e Executive Director noted that an after-action meeting hadalready occurred at a staff level, but that it would be useful to do so at the Comm issionlevel.Next Meeting. The Executive Director announced that the next meeting, on June 26 ,would cover a sensitive set of issues and would includ e briefings by the FBI and C IA. Inaddition, FBI Director Mueller will speak on the B ureau's transformation. Comm issionerGorelick invited the Commissioners to her home for dinner on the evening of July 8.

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Folder: 0002 Docum ent: 2Stephanie Kaplan Files

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Subject: Notes on June 5 meeting

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Minutes of 9/11 Commission Meeting on June 5, 2003