Mark Leonard - Deposition of 28FEB2013

SOUTH SECOND STREET, 413 LARSON BLDG., YAKIMA, WACOURT REPORTING SERVICE (509)457-6741 (800)317-6741

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UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON

In Re: ) )MITCHAEL BOGDEN, ) ) Debtor, ) )__________________________ ) Case No. 11-00883-FLK7 ) ADV NO. 11-80075-FLKMARK LEONARD AND TYTAN )INTERNATIONAL INC., ) ) Plaintiffs. ) )Vs. ) )MITCHAEL J. BOGDEN, ) ) Defendants. )

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF

MARK LEONARD

February 28, 2013

Yakima, Washington

TAKEN AT THE INSTANCE OF THE DEBTOR/DEFENDANT

REPORTED BY:JORI L. MOORE, CCR, RPR


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1 APPEARANCES:

2 FOR THE DEBTOR/DEFENDANT:

3 MR. DON BOYD Carlson Boyd

4 Attorneys at Law 230 South Second Street, Suite 202

5 Yakima, Washington 98901 509.834.6611

6 [email protected]

7 FOR THE PLAINTIFF:

8 MR. JEFFREY R. SIMPSON Talbott Simpson

9 Attorneys at Law 308 North Second Street

10 Yakima, Washington 98901 509.575.7501

11 [email protected]

12 ALSO PRESENT: Mitchael Bogden

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1 I N D E X

2 In Re: Bogden, Leonard vs. BogdenCase No. 11-00883-FLK7

3 ADV No. 11-80075-FLKFebruary 28, 2013

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5 T E S T I M O N Y

6 MARK LEONARD PAGE NO.

7 Examination by Mr. Boyd 6, 142

8 Examination by Mr. Simpson 139

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10 E X H I B I T S

111 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Consolidated Supplementary

12 Information Years Ended December 31, 2009 and 2008 45

132 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Annual Report and

14 Disclosure Statement 47

15 3 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Quarterly Report 52

16 4 Tytan Holdings, Inc. Quarterly Report 57

17 5 Tytan Holdings, Inc. 2010 Annual Report 59

18 6 Penny Stock Blog documents 61

19 7 Penny Stock Blog documents 62

20 8 Penny Stock Gurus Blog documents 65

21 9 Marketwire document 67

22 10 E-mail chain starting 12-17-07 71





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1 E X H I B I T S (Cont'd)








9 21 Letter from M. Leonard to M. Bogden 89








17 29 Letter 1-7-10 to P. McDonald from M. Leonard 110



20 32 TYM Tractors document 115





25 37 Stock ad 9-10-10 132


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1 E X H I B I T S (Cont'd)

2 38 Tytan stock growth chart 135


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1 BE IT REMEMBERED that on Thursday, February 28,

2 2013, commencing 9:00 a.m. at 230 South Second Street,

3 Yakima, Washington, the deposition of MARK LEONARD was taken

4 before Jori L. Moore, Certified Court Reporter.

5 The following proceedings took place:

6

7 MARK LEONARD, being first duly sworn to tell the

8 truth, the whole truth and nothing

9 but the truth, testified as

10 follows:

11 EXAMINATION

12 BY MR. BOYD:

13 Q. Good morning, Mr. Leonard. My name is Don Boyd. We've

14 met before. I'm the attorney for Mitch Bogden. And

15 you're here because we've subpoenaed you for

16 deposition.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And for the record -- let's see. Before we get

19 started, if -- I ask you questions, you don't

20 understand the question, please ask me to restate it

21 and I'll try to restate the question. Please answer

22 yes or no because the court reporter can't pick up

23 shakes of the head or, you know, less than yes or no

24 answers or verbal answers.

25 Let's see. For the record, could you state your full


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1 name?

2 A. Mark Anthony Leonard.

3 Q. Okay. And where do you currently live?

4 A. In Kalama, Washington.

5 Q. What's your address there?

6 A. 5225 Meeker Drive.

7 Q. How long have you lived there?

8 A. Oh, I don't know. Five -- seven years, something like

9 that.

10 Q. What's your current age?

11 A. 63.

12 Q. Do you take any medications that would in any way

13 affect what you're able to understand or say here

14 today?

15 A. Probably.

16 Q. What are they?

17 A. I take some medicine -- I don't know the exact names,

18 but I take some medicines for drowsiness.

19 Q. Okay. Do you think you're going to be able to go

20 through the deposition today properly?

21 A. Hope so.

22 Q. Okay. If you have any issues about that, please let

23 us know. Okay?

24 A. Uh-huh.

25 Q. What's your current occupation?


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1 A. Tractor sales.

2 Q. Could you kind of be more explicit about what you

3 actually -- what's your title or -- are you an

4 employee?

5 A. I'm just about everything. But tractor distributor,

6 retailer.

7 Q. Do you own a company?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. What company is that?

10 A. I own a portion of it. Tytan International.

11 Q. Okay. What's your position with that company?

12 A. President.

13 Q. Are you also the speaking agent for that company?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And basically, you're here today individually but also

16 on behalf of the company?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Could you tell me what your educational background

19 was, just generally?

20 A. Went to the University of Washington, economics

21 degree.

22 Q. When did you graduate?

23 A. 1970.

24 Q. Did you take any additional schooling after that

25 post --


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1 A. Just school of hard knocks.

2 Q. Okay. Do you belong to any professional

3 organizations?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Have you ever belonged to any professional

6 organizations?

7 A. No.

8 Q. After you graduated from the University of Washington,

9 what did you do after that?

10 A. I was a factory rep in the hunting, fishing, camping

11 business.

12 Q. For what company?

13 A. I represented 30 different lines of guns and fishing

14 equipment.

15 Q. Were you an employee for a particular company?

16 A. Independent commission rep.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. Exclusive rep.

19 Q. In what area were you the rep for?

20 A. Northwest -- well, Northwest at first and then the

21 entire 13 Western states.

22 Q. And when did you start with that?

23 A. '71 or '2.

24 Q. How long were you working at that field?

25 A. About 12 years, I think. 12, 14 years, something like


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1 that.

2 Q. So what did you do after that?

3 A. Well, kind of overlapping, I started a boat trailer

4 distributorship.

5 Q. When did you start that?

6 A. 1981.

7 Q. And could you describe what that entailed?

8 A. We had the exclusive agreement to distribute

9 ShoreLand'r boat trailers throughout the Northwest.

10 Q. In the Northwest. What do you ascribe that to be?

11 A. Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii.

12 Q. Was that a company that you started?

13 A. Trailer World, yes.

14 Q. And did you have any other employees in that company?

15 A. Several employees.

16 Q. Were you the owner?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Were you -- was there any other owners in that

19 company?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Do you still do that?

22 A. No.

23 Q. When did you quit doing that?

24 A. Sold it in '92.

25 Q. And who did you sell that to?


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1 A. A fellow named Orrin Lundy.

2 Q. Is that business still active?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. So after you stopped being the rep for the sports

5 company or the sports group -- let's call it that --

6 was your sole job, then, as the boat --

7 A. No.

8 Q. -- boat and trailer thing?

9 A. Started a company about '84 that distributed the Buzz

10 Bomb fishing lure.

11 Q. Did you create a company to do that?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What company was that?

14 A. PRN Sales, Inc.

15 Q. And called it a Buzz Bomb fishing lure --

16 A. Yeah. The same rep -- the same company as my rep

17 group was.

18 Q. But you were now just focused on fishing lures?

19 A. Yes. It overlapped a little bit with the -- my having

20 the rep firm, but I sold the rep firm and just did

21 that.

22 Q. So you -- so you sold the rep firm. Who did you sell

23 that to?

24 A. Employees.

25 Q. After you sold it, were you still active in that


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1 sports rep thing?

2 A. No.

3 Q. So from '84 to '92 you overlapped between the boat

4 trailer work and the PRN Sales?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Did you have any other business activity during that

7 time?

8 A. Yes. I also designed and imported a line of

9 fishing -- hip and chest waders.

10 Q. Was that a separate company?

11 A. PRN Sales.

12 Q. So it was fishing lures and then the waders, all

13 within PRN Sales?

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Other than PRN Sales from '84 to '92, and the Trailer

16 World, did you have any other business --

17 A. No.

18 Q. -- activities?

19 A. I'm sorry. I didn't pick up that last date you gave

20 me there.

21 Q. The time that you sold Trailer World, which I believe

22 you said was '92?

23 A. Yes. Yeah, I started my tractor -- Rhino tractor

24 business in '88.

25 Q. And was that a corporate entity that you created?


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1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And was it a corporation?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Were you the sole shareholder?

5 A. Rhino International Incorporated, yes.

6 Q. Okay. So the official name of the company is Rhino

7 International?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you were the sole shareholder?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. And that was started in 1988. What did Rhino

12 International do?

13 A. They imported tractors from China.

14 Q. What -- any particular brand of tractors?

15 A. Rhino.

16 Q. How many employees did you have?

17 A. At the end, 26.

18 Q. And where did you sell those tractors?

19 A. All over the United States.

20 Q. How? Did you have stores?

21 A. Dealerships.

22 Q. So you would contract with dealers to sell them

23 tractors and they would sell to customers?

24 A. That's correct.

25 Q. And how long did you own Rhino tractor -- or Rhino


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1 International?

2 A. Until mid-'95.

3 Q. And what happened at that point?

4 A. It was purchased by the Alamo Group.

5 Q. And did you sell the stock of the company versus the

6 assets of the company?

7 A. No. They basically bought the assets, which was the

8 agreements we had and inventory.

9 Q. Do you know what the sale price was?

10 A. Round numbers, it was about -- inventory was about

11 3 million. They assumed that, paid me the difference.

12 And the so-called blue sky was about 4 million.

13 Q. Is Rhino -- is the Alamo Group still selling Rhino

14 tractors?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you know when they stopped?

17 A. They did it for about three years until they ran into

18 a conflict of interest with John Deere.

19 Q. Are Rhino tractors still sold in the US?

20 A. Well, if you're talking about the brand, only used are

21 being sold. If your talking about the actual same

22 products being sold, yes.

23 Q. So the Rhino manufacturing company changed the name of

24 their tractors at some point?

25 A. No. Alamo -- John Deere represented 50 percent of


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1 Alamo's business, and so they were creating a product

2 using those tractors that conflicted with their

3 arrangement with John Deere.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. So they had to drop Rhino period or lose 50 percent of

6 their business.

7 Q. Do you know if Alamo sold the Rhino line to somebody

8 else?

9 A. No. I said they dropped it. They just had to get out

10 of it because they had a very serious conflict.

11 Q. So you don't know if they sold their inventory to some

12 third party or anything?

13 A. Well, they sold their inventory out to cut the

14 dealerships that were out there.

15 Q. I believe your testimony was that the Rhino name

16 tractor isn't sold anymore as new tractors?

17 A. It is only sold under the Chinese brands that made up

18 Rhino.

19 Q. And I guess I'm unclear here as when you were buying

20 these tractors, Rhino tractors, did they have a Rhino

21 name on them?

22 A. No. That was my trademark.

23 Q. Okay. So they were actually some other tractor that

24 came over and you would sell them as Rhino tractors?

25 A. They were made with our -- you know, it's like


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1 ordering a car. You get a big list of do you want

2 this, this and this. And they were made, basically,

3 to our orders.

4 Q. Okay. Who did you buy your tractors from?

5 A. Basically, five different factories.

6 Q. Did they have brand names or were these just tractors

7 that didn't have brand names, and you would just buy

8 the tractor?

9 A. Well, they had Chinese brand names. Largest tractor

10 companies in the world.

11 Q. And you would rename them as Rhino tractors?

12 A. Oh, I had them built for Rhino.

13 Q. So then in 1995 you sold Rhino tractor. After '95,

14 what did you do?

15 A. I had a noncompete clause for three or four years.

16 Q. What did that limit you from doing?

17 A. Being in competition with Alamo.

18 Q. So you couldn't sell Chinese --

19 A. Tractors.

20 Q. Any tractors?

21 A. Yeah, that's right.

22 Q. When did that end?

23 A. Three or four years after 1995.

24 Q. What did you do at that time?

25 A. Pardon?


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1 Q. After the noncompete expired, what did you do?

2 A. Then I was contacted by Chinese, people told me that

3 there was some opportunities to get back in it.

4 Q. Who were they?

5 A. That's confidential.

6 MR. SIMPSON: Were they manufacturers?

7 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm not going to give

8 out my contacts.

9 MR. SIMPSON: No, no. Just generically

10 describe them.

11 THE WITNESS: They were Chinese factory

12 employees.

13 BY MR. BOYD:

14 Q. For a particular manufacturer of tractors?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. What was the company name?

17 A. Benye tractor.

18 Q. Anybody else?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What was the name of that company?

21 A. Jinma tractor.

22 Q. Anybody else?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Benye and Jinma were the two companies that contacted

25 you to sell Chinese tractors?


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1 A. That's correct.

2 Q. And what did you do with that?

3 A. Checked out their leads, what they were talking about.

4 Q. And did you take any positive action to pursue that

5 line?

6 A. I went and met with a few manufacturers that had come

7 up.

8 Q. Were there any others than the two you've already

9 mentioned?

10 A. Any others -- you're --

11 Q. Any other manufacturers than the two you've already

12 mentioned, Jinma and Benye?

13 A. What I said was that I met with a couple employees

14 that gave me some insights from those two factories.

15 Q. Okay. Then what did you do with that? Did you take

16 any affirmative steps to pursue that line --

17 A. Yeah, I just answered that. I said I had looked into

18 those leads that I'd been given.

19 Q. My next question was: Did you look into any other

20 leads other than those two companies?

21 A. Yeah. I didn't have leads at those companies, they

22 gave me leads elsewhere.

23 Q. And what companies did you investigate?

24 A. That's confidential.

25 Q. Why is it confidential?


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1 A. Because you got a guy right here that's going to take

2 any of my leads and do all kinds of damage to me.

3 MR. SIMPSON: Plus it's not really relevant

4 to this lawsuit what the name of these entities are.

5 It's just who do you order tractors from? People in

6 China, manufacturers.

7 You don't -- it's not relevant to get names,

8 addresses.

9 MR. BOYD: I'm just asking what companies he

10 investigated in --

11 THE WITNESS: I'm on a first-name basis with

12 every tractor company in China that's significant, and

13 I talk to all of them.

14 BY MR. BOYD:

15 Q. And that's what you did back in 19 -- or when your

16 termination -- your noncompete terminated?

17 A. I talked to the ones that I was most interested in.

18 Q. And I'm not asking for particular names of

19 individuals, just tractor companies.

20 MR. SIMPSON: Again, that's -- it gets into

21 his business relationships, and we don't -- clearly

22 don't want them interfered with. It -- if you -- why

23 don't you just ask him, "Did you order tractors from

24 these people? Did you order your own specification?"

25 I mean, what difference does it make?


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1 MR. BOYD: I don't know the names of the

2 companies so I can't ask that question. That's why

3 I'm asking the question of what companies he

4 contacted.

5 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to give it to

6 you.

7 MR. BOYD: So you're instructing your client

8 not to answer that question?

9 MR. SIMPSON: I'm requesting that you modify

10 it simply saying, "Did you order tractors from a

11 manufacturer in China? If so, what did order?" That

12 will get you there. You don't need their names.

13 MR. BOYD: Again, I'm not asking the names

14 of any individuals.

15 MR. SIMPSON: No, you're asking company

16 names.

17 MR. BOYD: Yes.

18 MR. SIMPSON: And he does not want to

19 disclose that information.

20 Is that correct, Mark?

21 THE WITNESS: They're trade secrets.

22 BY MR. BOYD:

23 Q. Okay. So you're refusing to answer that question?

24 A. It's a trade secret. Want to give me your family

25 member names?


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1 MR. SIMPSON: Well, don't -- Mark -- Mark --

2 THE WITNESS: It's trade secrets. It's not

3 important. It's my business.

4 MR. SIMPSON: Don't banter back and forth.

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. Did you set up a company to start purchasing Chinese

7 tractors?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Okay. When was that?

10 A. About 2003. At the end, I think.

11 Q. Okay. And what company was that?

12 A. Tytan International.

13 Q. And is that entity a corporation?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Which state is it incorporated in?

16 A. Washington.

17 Q. Are you the sole shareholder of that company?

18 A. Well, it's owned by Tytan Holdings.

19 Q. So Tytan Holdings, is that also a corporation?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And when was Tytan Holdings formed?

22 A. I'm not sure the exact date. It was at the time that

23 the company was put on the stock market, about 2000 --

24 I think the end of 2010.

25 Q. Okay.


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1 A. I'm not sure of the exact date.

2 Q. So between 2003, when you formed Tytan International,

3 and when the stock of Tytan International was

4 purchased by Tytan Holdings, who were shareholders of

5 Tytan International?

6 A. Myself.

7 Q. And what was the business of Tytan International from

8 2003 on?

9 A. Importing and selling and servicing of tractors.

10 Q. Did you have a store?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Who did you sell your tractors to? Who did Tytan

13 International sell it's tractors to?

14 A. Retailer, customers and wholesale customers.

15 Q. Did it have dealer agreements with other dealers?

16 A. Had no dealer agreements other than Mr. Bogden.

17 Q. So how --

18 A. I had no written dealer agreements.

19 Q. You had a store. Where was that located?

20 A. Kalama.

21 Q. Did you have stores anywhere else?

22 A. No.

23 Q. You said you sold retail to -- retail consumers and

24 then also wholesale; is that correct?

25 A. Yes.


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1 Q. How were the wholesale transactions accomplished?

2 A. I don't know what -- that's pretty broad. I don't

3 know what you're talking about there.

4 Q. Did Tytan International advertise that it had tractors

5 for sale in any publications?

6 A. No. We targeted certain customers .

7 Q. Okay. And --

8 A. And some customers came to us.

9 Q. How did you contact those? And I presume we're

10 talking about wholesale customers here.

11 A. That's what you said.

12 Q. Okay. Just -- rather than retail, this line of

13 question deals with just wholesale customers. How did

14 Tytan International contact those wholesale customers?

15 A. Well, we could contact them through every

16 communication means there is. phone, fax, e-mail.

17 Q. How did -- were you the decision maker for Tytan

18 International at that point?

19 A. Which point?

20 Q. From 2003 on.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did anybody else make business decisions for Tytan

23 International?

24 A. At -- different types, yes.

25 Q. What other people would make decisions?


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1 A. Well, if we had a person -- a service manager, they

2 would make the decisions for that category. And if we

3 had a person on parts, same thing. A lot of times it

4 was the same person. If we had a person that's

5 collecting monies owed, they'd make that one.

6 Q. Okay. But the overall business strategy of Tytan

7 International, who made that decision?

8 A. Myself.

9 Q. In deciding who to contact of these wholesale dealers,

10 that was your responsibility?

11 A. I had some people helping.

12 Q. Who made the final decision?

13 A. Which decision?

14 Q. On who to contact.

15 A. I had people that were soliciting. We had different

16 dealer lists of dealers that they would solicit.

17 Q. Who --

18 A. Potential dealers.

19 Q. Who would -- was the person responsible for coming up

20 with that dealer list?

21 A. The fellows that I had hired.

22 Q. Did you approve them making those contacts, or did

23 they just go off on their own to call whoever they

24 decided?

25 A. We discussed -- it was a little bit of both.


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1 Q. My question is: Who had final authority if one of

2 these people came and said, "I want to go to this one

3 dealer," who made the final decision as to whether to

4 approve or deny that?

5 A. Well, we discussed -- it depends what informations

6 were provided that might influence that decision. If

7 a credit person said, "Hey, that credits no good,"

8 that's pretty much a final decision. So there's

9 several pieces to the puzzle.

10 Q. Was there anybody but yourself that had override

11 authority to make a final decision on that?

12 A. Like I said, we had people in charge of service. We

13 had people in charge of financial monies owed --

14 credit, rather. Different things.

15 Q. Did you have somebody who was responsible for the

16 financial information of Tytan International?

17 A. Repeat that.

18 Q. Was there somebody in charge of preparing financial

19 information for Tytan International?

20 A. Yeah, we had a few people.

21 Q. Who were they?

22 A. I had Doris Chalco (phonetic) was a bookkeeper

23 originally.

24 Q. What did she do?

25 A. Did financials.


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1 Q. Did she prepare tax returns?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Did she prepare financial statements?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Anybody else who did those things?

6 A. Later we had a fellow named Jerry Leslie. We had an

7 in-house gal named Saskia (phonetic), another one

8 Anita.

9 Q. And Saskia, do you know what her last name is?

10 A. I'm not good on last names right now. I can provide

11 it to you if you want it.

12 Q. Yeah, please. And then Anita?

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 Q. Do you know her last name?

15 A. Baldwin.

16 MR. SIMPSON: Let's go off the record one

17 moment.

18 (A short recess was taken.)

19 MR. SIMPSON: Go back on the record. Sorry.

20 BY MR. BOYD:

21 Q. Anybody else?

22 A. Jerry Leslie.

23 Q. Okay. Anybody else?

24 A. Repeat the question again. We're getting quite a ways

25 from it. I want to make sure I'm answering it.


Page 27

1 Q. Who was responsible for preparing financial

2 information for Tytan International?

3 A. Yes. Okay. We also had an accounting firm out of

4 Nevada, De Joya Griffith.

5 Q. Is there anybody else?

6 A. That's all I can think of right now.

7 Q. And you've named four or five different people. Are

8 they all still working for Tytan International?

9 A. In one manner or another, yeah. I'm not using De Joya

10 Griffith so much anymore, but that's only maybe a

11 temporary situation.

12 Q. So all of those individuals that you had talked about

13 still are employees of Tytan International?

14 A. I didn't say employees. A lot of them are independent

15 contractors.

16 Q. But they're still working for Tytan International?

17 A. They perform certain works for Tytan.

18 Q. Who was primarily responsible for preparing financial

19 statements, year-end financial statements, quarterly

20 financial statements for Tytan International?

21 A. When?

22 Q. Starting with 2003.

23 A. Initially it was -- I want to say Doris Chalco, and

24 then it was Jerry Leslie, pretty much.

25 Q. And how long did Doris have that primary


Page 28

1 responsibility.

2 A. I don't know. A couple -- two or three years into it.

3 Q. And then Jerry Leslie took over --

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. -- doing that?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And who took -- is he still the one primarily

8 responsible?

9 A. Then Saskia.

10 Q. How long did Jerry Leslie do it?

11 A. Oh, couple years, maybe.

12 Q. And Saskia took over and she's still the primary

13 person responsible for that?

14 A. Yes. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Who are the officers of Tytan International?

16 A. Well, I'm president. And I'm not sure if I'm

17 secretary or treasurer, but I haven't looked at that

18 stuff. And then I have my daughter as one. I think

19 she's a secretary. I'm the treasurer. It could be

20 reversed.

21 Q. And your daughter's name?

22 A. Heather.

23 Q. How long has she been an officer?

24 A. A couple years.

25 Q. Who -- are there directors for Tytan International?


Page 29

1 A. None right now.

2 Q. Has there ever been directors for Tytan International?

3 A. I can't answer that one. I don't have a clear memory

4 on that one.

5 Q. I presume Tytan International files its annual report

6 with Washington State?

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. And that would be listed on those annual reports?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Tytan Holdings, what state is that entity formed in?

11 A. Colorado.

12 Q. And that was formed in what year?

13 A. I'd say 2010 -- late 2010 or early 2011, I'm not sure

14 which.

15 Q. Who are the officers of that company?

16 A. I'm the president, Steve Amdahl or whatever was the

17 secretary.

18 Q. Is he still the secretary?

19 A. No. Just retired.

20 Q. Did anybody take over that position for him?

21 A. I don't know if I have put somebody in there or if

22 it's been changed yet. Usually it gets changed the

23 year-end deal when they ask for all your new stuff.

24 Q. Are there any directors for Tytan Holdings?

25 A. No.


Page 30

1 Q. Are you familiar with a company called Ault?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What is Ault?

4 A. It was a company that previously was Tytan Holdings.

5 Ault Glazer company, is that what your talking about?

6 Q. Yeah. Glazer company. Okay. When did Ault Glazer

7 cease being or -- when did it change its name?

8 A. I just don't have the exact dates on those things.

9 I'd just not rather not speculate.

10 Q. Would it have been about the time that Tytan Holdings

11 came into existence?

12 A. Been prior to that. What was your question again?

13 Q. I think your testimony was that Ault Glazer used to

14 be -- or became Tytan Holdings? Am I reading --

15 understanding that correctly?

16 A. It was the same corporation, yes.

17 Q. So Ault Glazer just changed its name to Tytan

18 Holdings?

19 A. Well, I'm not a corporate expert on the terminology on

20 whether changing the name is the right way to put it

21 or what, so I'm not going to be the expert on that.

22 Q. Okay. What -- what is -- what was Ault Glazer's

23 business?

24 A. I really don't know much about them. I don't -- I

25 know that they had pretty much -- didn't have any


Page 31

1 activity to speak of, a whole lot of activity.

2 Q. Okay. I'd like you to describe what you know about

3 how -- what Ault Glazer -- how it became Tytan

4 Holdings.

5 A. You know, I think we can probably just supply you with

6 the documents of what transpired better than I can

7 explain it.

8 Q. I'd like to hear your explanation of your

9 understanding of how Ault Glazer became --

10 A. I just don't want to speculate with the wrong

11 terminology. When you get into the stock deal, you

12 have to use the right things or they have different

13 meanings. I'd just as soon not be a conduit of wrong

14 information, wrong wording.

15 Q. I'm just asking your understanding of how Ault Glazer

16 became Tytan Holdings, not to give us any legal

17 opinions as to how that transpired.

18 A. I don't know exactly what your asking. I mean, it was

19 a name -- it was a transfer of name. The Ault name

20 was dropped and then it was changed for a very brief

21 time to an another name. It was handled by our

22 accountant, Jerry Leslie, so I don't really have a

23 real clear focus on the -- on the information on that.

24 Q. Was Ault Glazer a publically traded company --

25 A. Yes.


Page 32

1 Q. -- at the time it was purchased?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. What stock exchanges was it traded on?

4 A. It was called the OTC penny stock market.

5 Q. Do you know how long Ault Glazer had been traded

6 publically?

7 A. I don't.

8 Q. What was -- do you know what the stock price was at

9 the time of -- changed over to Tytan Holdings?

10 A. I don't. It was very, very, very low.

11 Q. In roughly 2009, 2010, I believe you said Tytan

12 Holdings came into existence.

13 A. Pardon?

14 Q. I believe your testimony was that somewhere between

15 2009, 2010, Tytan Holdings came into existence, was

16 formed as an entity?

17 MR. SIMPSON: I thought the answer was it

18 was late 2010.

19 BY MR. BOYD:

20 Q. Okay. Late 2010.

21 A. The answer was I wasn't sure exactly of the date, but

22 again, I can provide you that information in paper

23 form if you'd like it.

24 Q. And that's -- whenever it was. We'll just say 2010

25 for the sake of this, not holding anybody to a


Page 33

1 specific date. Was there any business being conducted

2 before the company was formed?

3 MR. SIMPSON: By whom?

4 MR. BOYD: By anybody.

5 MR. SIMPSON: All --

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. Was it a sole proprietorship? Was -- you know, was

8 there any business that -- that you decided to form

9 into this company?

10 A. I'd already said that the Ault company -- or Ault

11 Glazer, whatever the exact name Ault Glazer was, is

12 what's -- was already in business. And it was maybe

13 not so substantial a business that I took a whole lot

14 of notice in it, but I can't really answer the exact

15 question because I don't have that exact knowledge.

16 Q. So you don't know what business Ault Glazer was doing

17 when it -- when Tytan Holdings bought it?

18 A. Yeah, I don't have a whole -- an exact fix on their

19 business adventures.

20 Q. My next question, was Tytan Holdings doing any

21 business before it came into existence? Was it doing

22 anything? Was there any sole proprietorship or

23 partnership or anything that was doing any business

24 before it became Tytan Holdings?

25 A. It had started some environmental-type work.


Page 34

1 Q. Could you describe that work?

2 A. It was looking into the -- like solar power and

3 different things like. Propane.

4 Q. And when did that start? When did that business --

5 A. When Tytan Holdings started.

6 Q. Prior to that, there was Tytan Holdings -- there was

7 no prior business -- my question is: Was there a

8 prior business that became Tytan Holdings before Tytan

9 Holdings got formed?

10 A. Are you asking if there was a private business before

11 it became a corporation?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. No.

14 Q. What -- when it -- Tytan Holdings, Inc., became a

15 corporation, what assets did it own?

16 A. Again, there's an answer that I'd have to give it to

17 you on paper rather than -- I couldn't be accurate on

18 that information. I'd have to give you the paperwork

19 on that and you can -- it spells it out.

20 MR. BOYD: I'll ask for that specific

21 listing of what assets Tytan Holdings purchased.

22 MR. SIMPSON: Don, just so it is clear, you

23 want a list of the assets of Tytan Holdings at the

24 inception?

25 MR. BOYD: Yeah.


Page 35

1 THE WITNESS: Inc.

2 MR. SIMPSON: So Tytan Holdings, Inc., list

3 of assets at beginning, inception?

4 MR. BOYD: Yeah.

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. So you've testified that Tytan Holdings, at its

7 inception, was looking into some environmental work,

8 solar panels, that type of stuff. Anything else? Was

9 it doing any other business?

10 A. You know, there again, I'm just going to refer you to

11 the paperwork of creation. That's got it all listed.

12 I just don't want to be not accurate on it, and that's

13 the best way. There's a lot of documentation, and I

14 don't want to be saying something that isn't exactly

15 correct.

16 I could say environmental when it's something a

17 tad bit different. And I don't want to speculate, so

18 I'll just give you a list of exactly what was going on

19 at that time.

20 Q. Okay. Does Tytan Holdings -- at the time of

21 inception, did it own any other subsidiary entities?

22 A. Yeah. There was a corporate company that had been

23 picked up that was sold by the accountant, Jerry

24 Leslie, I believe. I'm not sure of the exact time --

25 time slot of how it -- when it was, though. So that


Page 36

1 again I could give you.

2 MR. BOYD: Okay. Ask for that.

3 BY MR. BOYD:

4 Q. Do you know what business that other entity was

5 engaged in?

6 A. It had a coatings company. It was a coatings thing

7 that he had a trademark on.

8 MR. SIMPSON: Is that coatings as in -- like

9 paint?

10 THE WITNESS: Yeah.

11 MR. SIMPSON: Not code, C-o-d-e.

12 BY MR. BOYD:

13 Q. How long did Tytan Holdings own that company?

14 A. Still do. I just -- I can get you that information.

15 Q. Okay. Were there any other subsidiaries that Tytan

16 Holdings owned or -- when it started?

17 A. Pardon?

18 Q. Were there any other subsidiaries that Tytan Holdings

19 owned when it started?

20 A. Well, I'm going to have to give you those documents

21 because I'm not sure the time order of what happened

22 exactly when there's just a lot of transactions that

23 have happened. This is quite awhile back. I'm not

24 sure if we had the cart before the horse or the horse

25 before the cart or -- I don't want to be unaccurate


Page 37

1 about it.

2 Q. With regard to these various entities that Tytan

3 Holdings, Inc., owned at one time or another, were

4 individual financial statements made for each one of

5 these entities?

6 A. Yes, I believe so.

7 Q. Were people, other than the ones you've mentioned

8 previously, involved in preparing those financial

9 statements?

10 A. Yes. Jerry Leslie was.

11 Q. Would there be anybody else?

12 A. Maybe De Joya Griffith.

13 Q. That's the company down in --

14 A. Nevada.

15 Q. Nevada. Okay.

16 And I presume you have all the financial

17 statements for all these subsidiary companies?

18 A. I should have the documents relating to any of those

19 companies, yeah.

20 MR. BOYD: I'll ask for copies of those,

21 also.

22 BY MR. BOYD:

23 Q. Do you own any other companies or have stock in any

24 other companies or any ownership in any other

25 companies at this time?


Page 38

1 A. Active companies? One active corporation that I have.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. No. Actually, two.

4 Q. What are the names of those companies?

5 A. One is called the Trooper Corp.

6 Q. And what state's that incorporated in?

7 A. Nevada.

8 Q. And what does it do?

9 A. It handles the bonding situations with my products

10 that come in.

11 Q. Could you describe that for me --

12 A. When you import into the United States you have to

13 have a bond.

14 Q. And that company provides the bonds?

15 A. It holds the bond.

16 Q. Does it have any active business other than just

17 holdings those bonds?

18 A. It deals with paperwork related to that, yeah.

19 Q. So it's part of the import/export arrangement?

20 A. Yeah.

21 Q. Is there any other shareholder in that company other

22 than yourself?

23 A. Yes, my kids.

24 Q. And you had a second company, you said, that was

25 active, also?


Page 39

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What's the name of that company?

3 A. Dual Tracks.

4 Q. And what state is that -- is that a corporation?

5 A. Nevada.

6 Q. What does it do?

7 A. It has several patents.

8 Q. Briefly describe --

9 A. I should say patents or designs.

10 Q. For manufacturing things?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. What are the shareholders -- who are the shareholders

13 of that company?

14 A. Myself and kids.

15 Q. And the -- when was that corporation formed?

16 A. Oh, these are probably about 2001, maybe, or 2003.

17 Somewhere in there.

18 Q. Let's see. Have you ever -- have you personally been

19 involved as a party in a lawsuit before?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. How many times?

22 A. I don't know.

23 Q. Have you been a defendant in a lawsuit before?

24 A. What was your first question again?

25 Q. Have you personally been involved in lawsuits before


Page 40

1 as a party?

2 A. Yeah, because you're asking if I'm a defendant or -- I

3 was thinking, well, maybe you asked if it was a

4 plaintiff.

5 Q. No.

6 A. So make sure I get that distinction.

7 Q. The first was just generally, have you been in

8 lawsuits?

9 A. Yeah. Okay. The second one was?

10 Q. Have you been a defendant in lawsuits before,

11 personally?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Are you currently a defendant in any lawsuits?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What lawsuits?

16 A. Got a lawsuit with FDIC.

17 MR. SIMPSON: Off the record for a moment.


19 BY MR. BOYD:

20 Q. Any others than that?

21 A. I'm getting dry mouth here.

22 Q. Okay. There's water over there. There's coffee, pop.

23 MR. BOYD: Let's take a break. Off the

24 record.



Page 41

1 MR. BOYD: Go back on the record.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. I think when we ended, we were talking about the fact

4 that you're a defendant in a current case with the

5 FDIC. What's that case about?

6 A. Hold it. Are you saying me personally or are you

7 saying Tytan?

8 Q. I was saying you personally. That's the line we were

9 on, was that you're personally involved as a

10 defendant.

11 A. Personally, no, I'm not in a lawsuit personally with

12 the FDIC.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. But --

15 MR. SIMPSON: Go ahead and explain it.

16 THE WITNESS: The FDIC has a judgment

17 against me personally as a guarantor on a loan. But

18 the day before the bank I was dealing with went down,

19 the bank filed on Tytan. And then the next day they

20 got taken over by the FDIC, so that lawsuit sat out

21 there for over a year. And in December, the Court

22 told them they're going to throw it out, told the FDIC

23 they're throwing out Cowlitz Bank's suit unless they

24 did something on it. So they did a cut and paste and

25 kept it alive.


Page 42

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. Has a judgment been entered in that case?

3 A. Nothing's been done.

4 Q. Have you personally been involved in any other

5 lawsuits as a defendant?

6 A. How far back?

7 Q. Last ten years.

8 A. Yes. I was involved in one in Spokane.

9 Q. What was that case about?

10 A. I had -- I was developing a commercial building over

11 there, an old historic brewery building, and had an

12 agreement with the bank for full financing. And got

13 halfway -- more than halfway done and was on to get

14 the rest of the financing and then they bailed on me,

15 and so we went to court on that.

16 Q. Was a judgment entered in that case?

17 A. Yeah. I lost.

18 Q. Okay.

19 A. But then I won after the case was over.

20 Q. Please describe how you won.

21 A. You'll like this one. The -- I had a judgment loss on

22 that for $5 million, which was basically the loan plus

23 interest plus attorneys' fees. And then I realized

24 the bank president who really caused the whole thing

25 wasn't in such a hot relationship with the owner of


Page 43

1 the -- the owner of the bank, the Bancorp Corporation

2 president. So I wrote the Bancorp president and said,

3 "Hey, you guys just won this case. You probably heard

4 about it. You probably don't know the details of it."

5 But I gave them about 25 pages of stuff plus video

6 deps of his guys saying they had no environmental

7 schooling and a whole bunch of things that were

8 obviously untrue testimony.

9 And I said, This thing's not getting swept under

10 the table. I said, I want the judgment released. I

11 want all my assets back. He gave me them all back,

12 released the judgment.

13 Q. And that's filed in public record?

14 A. Huh?

15 Q. That's filed in public record?

16 A. Public record.

17 Q. Any other lawsuits that you've been involved in?

18 MR. SIMPSON: Lawsuits, are you including

19 dissolution of marriage or non-family law stuff?

20 MR. BOYD: Non-family law stuff.

21 MR. SIMPSON: So have you ever been divorced

22 or --

23 THE WITNESS: What was that word --

24 MR. BOYD: Non-family law. Not including

25 family law.


Page 44

1 MR. SIMPSON: Business stuff.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. Personal injury. Criminal. Got to ask.

4 A. I'm sure there is, but I don't have them on the top of

5 my head right now over ten years.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. Might have been -- I also don't really remember if

8 they were corporate or personal, so I'm going to take

9 my vitamin B12. Get my memory brought up, I guess.

10 Q. With regard to Tytan Holdings, Inc., does it

11 publically file with any agency or annual financial

12 reports, things like that?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. With who?

15 A. It's current. Its status is current.

16 Q. With what agency?

17 A. We file with, I believe, Federal and SEC and OTC.

18 Q. Okay. And it's done that since its inception,

19 whenever --

20 A. There might be a couple more agencies.

21 Q. Who prepares those filings?

22 A. We have had those people I mentioned prior do them.

23 Q. Anybody else other than those people?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Do you review those filings?


Page 45

1 A. I haven't. I'm not an expert on everything. I have

2 to delegate things, and accounting is one area I

3 delegate.

4 Q. I'm going to start handing some exhibits out here.

5 MR. BOYD: This will be Exhibit 1.

6 (Deposition Exhibit Number 1 marked for

7 identification.)

8 BY MR. BOYD:

9 Q. I'll ask you to take a look at this document.

10 A. (Witness complies.)

11 Q. Do you recognize that document?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. What is this document?

14 A. Looks like a financial years-end of December 31st,

15 2008, and '9.

16 Q. And if you look on the back page of that document, do

17 you see a signature there?

18 A. Yes, I do.

19 Q. Is that your signature?

20 A. Yes, it is.

21 Q. What's the date of this document?

22 A. 3-25-2010.

23 Q. Do you know if this document was filed with any

24 governmental agency?

25 A. Yes.


Page 46

1 Q. With whom?

2 A. I don't know the answer to that.

3 Q. If you'd look on page -- the fifth page in.

4 A. Counting five pages in?

5 Q. Counting five pages in, yes.

6 A. Is that the one labeled --

7 Q. Yes, that is it. What is this page? Consolidated

8 statement of income and retained earnings. This is

9 for years-end of December 31, 2009, and 2008?

10 A. That's what it says, yeah.

11 Q. And there's two columns; one headed 2009, one headed

12 2008. At the top on the far left it says "income,"

13 and there's -- the first line is sales, second line is

14 total sales. What do these numbers reflect?

15 A. What was the first one that you said? I see a cluster

16 of goods. Is that what you're asking?

17 Q. It's up above that. It's income. The top row it says

18 "income," then "sales" and "total sales."

19 A. Okay. One's income column. Is that what you're

20 asking?

21 Q. Uh-huh. Then underneath that it says "sales"?

22 A. Sales, yeah.

23 Q. What's that row reflect?

24 A. Sales.

25 Q. And for the years 2009 and 2008?


Page 47

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Thank you.

3 MR. BOYD: This will be 2.


5 identification.)

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. I'll ask you to take a look at this document.


9 Q. Can you tell me what this document is?

10 A. Annual report and disclosure statement.

11 Q. And for what company?

12 A. Tytan Holdings.

13 Q. For what year?

14 A. Looks like '09. I don't know.

15 Q. Ask if you'll look on the last page of this document,

16 is that your signature?

17 A. Yes, it is.

18 Q. And what date was this document signed?

19 A. 2010.

20 Q. May 19?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Was this document filed with any governmental

23 agencies?

24 A. I'm sure it was.

25 Q. (Inaudible) on the bottom of Page 3. The bottom of


Page 48

1 these actually are numbered, so if you'd look at

2 Page 3?

3 MR. SIMPSON: Is it numbered?

4 MR. BOYD: I they have little -- I'm sorry.

5 Made copies of this one. The third page in.

6 MR. SIMPSON: Including the cover page?

7 MR. BOYD: Yeah, including the cover page.

8 MR. SIMPSON: At the very top it says

9 December 31, '08?

10 MR. BOYD: That's it, yeah. It has Part C

11 midway through.

12 BY MR. BOYD:

13 Q. If you look at the second paragraph under Part C, it

14 says "Business Development." That first paragraph

15 generally described what Tytan Holdings was at its

16 formation?

17 A. What, are you asking me or telling me?

18 Q. I'm asking you if this is a correct description of

19 Tytan Holdings as it came to be and its predecessor

20 entities?

21 A. This -- this was written by the accountant, Jerry

22 Leslie, who I believe was a stockholder in these

23 previous companies, so I'm assuming that's accurate.

24 Q. Okay. Then if you'd look to the next page. And this

25 first full paragraph there, it starts, "Tytan


Page 49

1 Holdings, Inc., is not in default at the time of

2 the -- in default of the terms of any note, loan,

3 lease, etc." And halfway -- I think it's the third

4 sentence in there, it says, "There are no current,

5 past, pending, or threatened legal proceedings or

6 administrative actions either by or against the

7 company that could have a material effect on the

8 assurer's business, financial condition, or

9 operation."

10 Do you see that?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you believe that was a correct statement at that

13 time?

14 A. You know, you're kind of asking the wrong guy on all

15 this. The person you should have is the accountant

16 because he's in charge -- this is his expertise here,

17 and he's the one with the most knowledge.

18 Q. Okay. Did you review this document before you signed

19 it?

20 A. Pardon?

21 Q. Did you review this document before you signed it?

22 A. I reviewed it, but it's not an area of my expertise

23 that I -- I use a certified accountant to...

24 Q. And that would be Mr. Leslie?

25 A. Yes.


Page 50

1 Q. Let's see. Unfortunately I'm going to have to ask you

2 about -- go to the 13th page, which is -- actually, at

3 the top of it, it looks like this (indicating). It's

4 got some quarterly statements. I apologize for those

5 not being numbered. I thought they were.

6 MR. SIMPSON: 13, Don?

7 MR. BOYD: Yeah.

8 BY MR. BOYD:

9 Q. And at the bottom it has, "Management's decisions and

10 operations," a section started -- entitled that?

11 A. Uh-huh.

12 Q. And it states, "Tytan International, a wholly owned

13 subsidiary of Tytan Holdings has seen a significant

14 revenue growth through 2009 and early 2010, and is

15 currently estimating about a 43% gain year over year."

16 Do you see that?

17 A. Uh-huh.

18 Q. Do you know what information that statement was based

19 upon?

20 A. You know, this was all already covered in the lawsuit

21 arbitration, where Mr. Leslie testified as well as

22 Mr. Jules (phonetic), the attorney there.

23 Q. I'm asking you what -- do you know what information

24 that was based on?

25 A. I don't have -- it's been a long time ago. I don't


Page 51

1 really have the exact information in my head.

2 Q. Okay. I'll ask you to take a look at the -- I think

3 it's -- two, three, four -- sixth from the last page.

4 It looks like this (indicating).

5 MR. SIMPSON: At the top those same income

6 figures, sales?

7 MR. BOYD: Yes.

8 BY MR. BOYD:

9 Q. And basically it's the same question I've asked you on

10 the previous one. It appears to be the consolidated

11 statement of income and retained earnings for the year

12 ended December 31, 2009; is that correct?

13 A. That's what it looks like, yeah.

14 Q. And under the sales information for 2009, it states

15 that there was a 1,518,642 in sales; is correct?

16 A. Yeah. It looks like that page we looked at before.

17 Q. Okay. Then two pages after that -- take a look and it

18 should say, "Tytan Holdings Note A is a summary of

19 significant accounting policies and" --

20 A. Are you looking at that yellow part?

21 Q. I will be, yeah. Asking you to take a look at Note B,

22 short-term note. It says, "Note payable to Cowlitz

23 Bank under a 650,000 line of credit that expired

24 October 31, and is up for renewal."

25 Is -- was that a statement that you approved with


Page 52

1 regard to this report?

2 MR. SIMPSON: You mean for those years,

3 2009?

4 MR. BOYD: Yeah.

5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I think that's -- I

6 approved that that was the record, yeah.

7 BY MR. BOYD:

8 Q. I'm going to hand you what will be marked as

9 Exhibit 3.


11 identification.)

12 BY MR. BOYD:

13 Q. And ask if you recognize this document?

14 A. It's a quarterly report.

15 Q. For what company?


17 Q. And what period of time?

18 A. 2010.

19 Q. Is it for -- if you look on the third page, it appears

20 to indicate a three-month quarterly report ending

21 June 30, 2010; is that correct?

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. Do you know who prepared this report?

24 A. Jerry Leslie.

25 Q. If you look on the last page, is that your signature?


Page 53

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What's the date?

3 A. August 5th, 2010.

4 Q. Is that your handwriting for that date?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Do you know if this report was filed or submitted to

7 any governmental agencies?

8 A. I think so.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. I don't know exactly what -- if it's governmental

11 agency or -- you know, I know it was filed. When I

12 say governmental agency, State of Colorado is a

13 governmental agency to me. So I want to make that

14 clear.

15 Q. With regard to these, were these reports that we're

16 talking about submitted for compliance with reporting

17 obligations of Tytan Holdings?

18 A. There's obligations that I think they were with the

19 OTC, yes.

20 Q. And do you know if these reports were submitted to

21 comply with those reporting obligations?

22 A. Well, I don't think they necessarily had obligations.

23 I think to be rated at a certain rating you file to

24 get that rating, and so I think they were filed under

25 that presumption.


Page 54

1 Q. I'd ask you to take a look at the seventh page in

2 here.

3 MR. SIMPSON: Don, for the record, would you

4 please define the term OTC. I don't know what

5 you're --

6 MR. BOYD: I'll ask Mr. Leonard.

7 BY MR. BOYD:

8 Q. Could you define the term --

9 A. -- penny (inaudible) stock market.

10 MR. SIMPSON: Is that the name of it, penny?

11 THE WITNESS: Pink sheets, they call it,

12 too.

13 BY MR. BOYD:

14 Q. Is the OTC a governmental agency of any state or

15 federal government?

16 A. I think it's certainly run by the government.

17 Q. Federal government?

18 A. I think so. I think they're ones that legislate

19 everything about it, so they seem to run it.

20 Q. Okay. So we're looking at the page that --

21 MR. SIMPSON: Page 6?

22 MR. BOYD: 7, I believe.

23 MR. SIMPSON: 7?

24 MR. BOYD: Yeah, the seventh page in.

25 MR. SIMPSON: The one that's 314,000?


Page 55

1 MR. BOYD: Yeah.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. And could you tell me what this page is?

4 A. Consolidated statement of income and retained

5 earnings.

6 Q. That's for the three months ending July -- or June 30,

7 2010?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And in 2009 it would have the same period of time?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. For that column?

12 On the top column there, it has sales under

13 income. Do you see that?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And for 2010 it reports sales of $314,418; is that

16 correct?

17 A. Uh-huh.

18 Q. It doesn't report any income for 2009.

19 A. I think we saw that on a previous filing (inaudible).

20 Q. And what --

21 A. We did the 2008 and 2009 previously.

22 Q. Okay. I'm wondering if you have any knowledge as to

23 why there would be no income statement --

24 A. No, I don't.

25 MR. SIMPSON: That's for the quarter in


Page 56

1 2009.

2 MR. BOYD: Okay. Yeah. And that's -- I'm

3 just asking if he has any understanding as to why

4 there would be nothing listed there.

5 THE WITNESS: No.

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. Three pages beyond that would be the tenth page.

8 Looks -- top of it is consolidated notes on that page.

9 It says, "Consolidated notes to financial statements

10 for the three months ended June 30, 2010"? Are you

11 there?

12 A. Where are you looking?

13 Q. On that page --

14 A. Note B? Up here (indicating)?

15 Q. Yeah, Note B. If you could take a look at Note B at

16 the bottom.

17 A. Okay. Note B. Okay.

18 Q. And for this time frame it states, "Note payable to

19 Cowlitz County Bank under a 700,000 line of credit

20 that expired October 30, 2009, and is up for renewal."

21 Did you approve that statement?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Do you know at this time of August 5th, 2010, whether

24 Cowlitz County Bank had filed a lawsuit in regards to

25 this matter, to that loan?


Page 57

1 A. I'm not sure of the date, no.

2 Q. And ask you to turn to the second to last page at the

3 top.

4 A. (Witness complies.

5 Q. The top of that page, it has Item IV, Roman numeral

6 IV, plan of operation? Are you there?

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. The first sentence says, "Tytan International, a

9 wholly owned subsidiary of Tytan Holdings, Inc., has

10 seen a significant revenue growth through 2009 and

11 early 2010. It's currently estimating about a

12 43 percent gain year over year."

13 You see that statement?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. In signing this document, did you approve that

16 statement?

17 A. Yeah, this is that same thing we just covered a minute

18 ago that was covered in arbitration.


20 identification.)

21 BY MR. BOYD:

22 Q. Let me hand you what's been marked as Number 4. Do

23 you recognize this document?

24 A. Quarterly report.

25 Q. And for what company?


Page 58


2 Q. And looking on the third page, is this for the period

3 of months ending September 30, 2010?

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. And 2009?

6 And I'll ask you to take a look at the sixth page

7 in this. And it's the -- titled "Consolidated

8 financial statements for three months ended

9 September 30, 2010, and '9."

10 Do you see that?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And this -- the top column here it says, "Sales 2010,

13 $299,001." You see that?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And then for 2009 it has a zero entry there, no entry

16 at all. You see that?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Do you know why there's no entry for 2009 in that --

19 A. I don't know the accounting practices.

20 Q. Who prepared the accounting information for this?

21 A. Jerry Leslie.

22 Q. And if you look at the back page here, is that your

23 signature?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. What date did you sign this?


Page 59

1 A. December 8th, 2010.

2 Q. And did you review this document before you signed it?

3 A. Yes.


5 identification.)

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. I'll hand you what will be marked as Exhibit 5.

8 Luckily, these actually do have numbers on the pages.

9 Do you recognize this document?

10 A. Annual report for Tytan Holdings.

11 Q. It says it's a revised annual report for December 31,

12 2010.

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 Q. Was there a prior report that was submitted?

15 A. That's what it sounds like.

16 Q. Do you know why this was revised?

17 A. I don't remember.

18 Q. Ask you to take a look at Page 15, and the pages are

19 on the bottom right.

20 A. Okay.

21 Q. And this is a consolidated statement on income and

22 retained earnings. It says sales for 2010 were

23 585,077; is that correct?

24 A. That's what it says, yeah.

25 Q. And for 2009, a million 515,642?


Page 60

1 A. That's what it says.

2 Q. Do you know who prepared the financial information?

3 A. Jerry Leslie.

4 Q. And ask you to take a look at Page 32.

5 A. (Witness complies.

6 Q. In the middle of the page under Item 16, the bottom of

7 that first paragraph it says, "There are three main

8 things that negatively affected the company's bottom

9 line." And it recites three items.

10 MR. SIMPSON: I'm sorry. What page are we

11 on?

12 MR. BOYD: Page 32.

13 BY MR. BOYD:

14 Q. The first item talks about the recession and

15 apparently the difficulty of financing by buyers.

16 That's the first entry there; is that correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And the second entry is EPA emission requirements that

19 have changed. Is that the second entry?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Then the third entry is this lawsuit with Mr. Bogden;

22 is that correct?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. I'm going to ask you to take a look at Page 45. Do



Page 61

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And what is this document?

3 A. This is an appeal, I guess, where they went after the

4 guarantor, the bank did.

5 Q. And so this appeal -- on the first large paragraph

6 there, the last sentence states that on October 29,

7 2009, Cowlitz Bank declared Tytan in default of the

8 loan?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is that a true, correct statement?

11 A. That's what they declared.

12 Q. Is this the lawsuit you were talking about that's

13 still ongoing?

14 A. I'm not sure the dates whether -- I assume it is, but

15 I don't know for sure.

16 Q. Okay. Thank you.


18 Identification)

19 BY MR. BOYD:

20 Q. I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as

21 Number 6. Do you recognize this document?

22 A. I think I've seen it.

23 Q. What is this?

24 A. Some stock guy's opinion or something.

25 Q. In this penny stock, are there a lot of internet sites


Page 62

1 that talk about penny stocks?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And do you have any idea how many?

4 A. No.

5 Q. More than this Penny Stock Guru?

6 A. Well, we just said there was many of them, so.

7 Q. If you look at this, this is dated apparently

8 January 12th, 2010; is that correct? On the bottom?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And in reading this --

11 A. Did you say 2010?

12 Q. 2010.

13 A. Oh, I see. I see.

14 MR. SIMPSON: If you look up here, you see a

15 date.

16 BY MR. BOYD:

17 Q. Okay. It's November 10, 2009, is actually when it was

18 written.

19 A. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

20 Q. Okay. And this report generally seems to be a

21 positive report regarding Tytan Holdings; is that

22 correct?

23 A. I don't know. I really haven't read it.


25 identification.)


Page 63

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. I'll hand you what's going to be marked as 7, I

3 believe. Ask you if you've ever seen this document?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Is this same -- appears to be the same Penny Stock

6 Guru --

7 A. Yeah.

8 Q. Okay. The date here is April 21, 2010; is that

9 correct?

10 A. Appears to be.

11 Q. Second paragraph there, it starts, "For those of you

12 unfamiliar with TYTN." TYTN, is that your Tytan

13 International or Tytan Holdings, is that its trade

14 designation?

15 A. Stock designation, yes.

16 Q. It says here, following on, "It was a shell stock

17 until late last year." It says, "Do a search for TYTN

18 on this blog and you will find a few posts I did last

19 year." And then it says, "Tytan International, Inc.,

20 was brought into the shell." You see that?

21 A. Uh-huh.

22 Q. Do you know who writes this Penny Stock Guru blog?

23 A. Don't know a thing about it.

24 Q. Okay. Down below there, it has a box that has some

25 italicized writing next to it starting with, "Tytan


Page 64

1 Holdings, Inc., entered into a letter of intent in

2 regards," etc., etc. Do you see that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And going on to the next page. Do you know who -- it

5 says that this is a quick snippet from the company

6 overview. Do you know who prepared that italicized

7 language?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Do you know whether that language was on your company

10 website?

11 A. I'm not sure.

12 Q. Again, in reading this, does it appear to be a

13 positive comment about Tytan Holdings?

14 A. I haven't read it.

15 Q. If you want to take a minute, why don't you go ahead

16 and read it.


18 MR. SIMPSON: Don, if you go to Page 3 at

19 the -- not the very top but where says, "posted by

20 Robert Wilcox."

21 MR. BOYD: Uh-huh.

22 THE WITNESS: Okay.

23 BY MR. BOYD:

24 Q. And on the second page, the second full paragraph from

25 the bottom says, "It gets better. The company's


Page 65

1 expecting a 43 percent growth in revenue for 2010.

2 And that is on top of already growing numbers in

3 2009." Do you see that?

4 A. Where are you looking?

5 Q. This --

6 A. Oh, down here at the bottom?

7 Q. On the bottom.

8 A. Yeah, that's the same deal again that we were

9 referring to that was covered in the arbitration.

10 Q. But that information is taken from your company

11 official filings with the governmental agencies?

12 A. Like I said, I don't really know exactly, when you use

13 governmental agencies, who we filed anything with. I

14 know we just file with the OTC. I don't know -- and

15 we file some stuff with the State, but I don't know

16 exactly what.

17 Q. But that's the same comment that was taken from your

18 filings with the OTC that we had in Exhibits 1 through

19 5; is that correct?

20 A. I assume so. I don't -- I have seen that 43 percent,

21 but I don't know where we sent anything out to

22 governmental agencies with that on it other than the

23 reports that you were talking about.


25 identification.)


Page 66

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. Okay. I'll hand you what's going to be marked as

3 Number 8. Do you recognize this document?

4 A. No.

5 Q. Do you know what Marketwire is?

6 A. Oh, yeah. That's the one that gets promotional

7 things.

8 Q. This is dated March 4, 2010; is that correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What is Marketwire?

11 A. They put announcements up there, things that are

12 happening.

13 Q. Is that an internet site?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. What's the site intended to do?

16 A. Make a announcements.

17 Q. Okay. What's the target audience for Marketwire?

18 A. Stock people.

19 Q. It says, "Tytan CEO sees revenues up, predicts further

20 growth." Do you see that?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did you talk to somebody at Marketwire?

23 A. No.

24 Q. Do you know how they got this information?

25 A. I'm not exactly sure, no. It might have been through


Page 67

1 our accountant. It could have been through a PR guy.

2 I don't know which way, but this was covered in the

3 arbitration. And the people testified that -- gave

4 satisfactory answers on this thing.

5 Q. The second paragraph in there, it says, "When asked

6 about what guides his growth plans for Tytan, CEO Mark

7 Leonard said" -- there's a quote. Is that your quote?

8 A. That's pretty much my feeling about service.

9 Q. You don't recall ever talking to somebody from

10 Marketwire, though?

11 A. I don't know. It's been a long time. I very well

12 could have and I -- nobody ever asked me about using a

13 quote of mine, but it certainly reflects our strategy

14 of having good service.


16 identification.)

17 BY MR. BOYD:

18 Q. I'm going to hand you what's being marked as

19 Exhibit 9. Do you recognize this document?

20 A. Is this a Marketwire?

21 Q. Yes. It appears the date here is January 9, 2012.

22 A. Uh-huh.

23 Q. First paragraph says, "Tytan Holdings is pleased to

24 announce back in late December of 2011, the company

25 acquired Tytan Leasing"; is that correct?


Page 68

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And basically, what is Tytan Leasing, Inc.?

3 A. It was a company that we were going to -- well,

4 actually, we purchased to do dealer and retail

5 financing.

6 Q. Is it still an active company?

7 A. It's not quite developed yet in some respects. And

8 we're working on it.

9 Q. Is it actively doing any business right now?

10 A. I'm not sure.

11 Q. Has it ever actively done any business?

12 A. Initially we had -- I don't think I can make an

13 accurate statement on that. I don't really -- I don't

14 have any separate records that I could use off of that

15 right now. It probably would be coming up here in the

16 next financials.

17 Q. Okay. Who's the owners -- who are the shareholders of

18 Tytan Leasing, Inc.?


20 Q. Sole ownership in Tytan Holdings?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Who's the officer of Tytan Leasing, Inc. -- officers?

23 Excuse me.

24 A. That would be Tytan Holdings. If they own it, it

25 would be the same as Tytan Holdings.


Page 69

1 Q. Does it have an individual who is the president of

2 Tytan Leasing?

3 A. Yeah. I believe I am.

4 Q. Are there any other officers?

5 A. I'm not sure.

6 Q. What corporation -- or what state is Tytan Leasing

7 incorporated in?

8 A. This company was purchased from Jerry Leslie and Paul

9 Stringer, two stockholders.

10 Q. Did they purchase the stock or the assets?

11 A. They --

12 Q. Tytan Holdings, did it purchase the stock of the

13 company or the assets of the company, of Tytan Leasing

14 or --

15 A. It was -- I believe it was the assets, but I -- I

16 haven't looked at the documents on that for quite a

17 while either.

18 Q. In the second paragraph it starts, "Tytan Leasing will

19 also make its programs available to Tytan dealers."

20 The next sentence, "This purchase was made possible in

21 part by the first release of funds from the Bogden

22 bankruptcy case." Do you see that?

23 Do you know who provided that information to the

24 person who wrote this?

25 A. I'm pretty sure probably my account.


Page 70

1 Q. And who would that be?

2 A. Huh?

3 Q. Who would that be, your accountant?

4 A. Jerry Leslie.

5 Q. Income statements, we looked at Exhibits 1 through 5.

6 They say they're consolidated. What does that mean?

7 A. You know, you're going to have to talk to the

8 accountants on that stuff. I'm not a terminology

9 expert when it comes to accounting.

10 Q. Do you know what other businesses Tytan Holdings was

11 doing in 2009 and 2010 to earn income other than Tytan

12 tractor -- or Tytan International?

13 A. We already answered that once already. We went right

14 through this.

15 Q. We did at the beginning, we --

16 A. I said I would provide you the information so you get

17 the right time and the right company names and

18 everything.

19 Q. Okay. So --

20 MR. SIMPSON: We previously talked -- well,

21 basically from 2003 on apparently is when we need is I

22 guess 2009, 2010, 2011. Whatever Tytan Holdings

23 MR. BOYD: Well, we -- basically from 2003

24 on, apparently, is what we need is that -- I guess

25 2009, 2010, 2011, whatever Tytan Holdings --


Page 71

1 MR. SIMPSON: I've got a list of assets.

2 MR. BOYD: Well, but also income, yeah,

3 sources.

4 MR. SIMPSON: And you want those for 2008,

5 '9 and '10?

6 MR. BOYD: For -- yeah.

7 MR. SIMPSON: Okay.

8 BY MR. BOYD:

9 Q. Okay. You at some point -- or Tytan International at

10 some point entered into a dealer agreement, you said,

11 with Mitch Bogden. That was the only dealer agreement

12 you ever entered -- Tytan International's ever entered

13 into?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Obviously, things did not go well at some point and

16 there were some problems in 2007, 2008, with certain

17 tractors that were sold by Mitch Bogden that were

18 Tytan tractors; is that correct?

19 A. That is what Mr. Bogden claimed.

20 Q. Do you recall a gentleman by the name of Jake Conner?

21 A. Vaguely. Some guy in Cashmere he sold a tractor to

22 and then swapped one out with and different things.


24 identification.)

25 BY MR. BOYD:


Page 72

1 Q. I'm going hand you what's marked -- which we marked as

2 10. Do you recognize this document?

3 MR. SIMPSON: Don, just for the record,

4 while he can identify the document, it's obviously

5 hearsay.

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. Do you recognize this document?

8 A. Vaguely.

9 Q. Okay. The first page at the top appears to be an

10 e-mail from Mitch Bogden to you; is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Do you recall receiving this e-mail?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And this e-mail sounds like it relates to a complaint

15 from Mr. Conner. It says, "E-mail is below." Do you

16 recall seeing that e-mail from Mr. Conner?

17 A. It's not real fresh on my memory, but I remember this

18 situation. It was also brought up in the arbitration.

19 Q. You looking at the second page there? It appears to

20 be your reply later December -- or actually, your

21 reply on December 15, a couple days prior to that with

22 regard to this matter. Do you recall writing that

23 e-mail?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Actually, it's Mr. Conner's e-mail to Mitch that talks


Page 73

1 about the issues. It's the second page.

2 MR. SIMPSON: Is that the one with "I'm sure

3 the 334 problem is simple"?

4 MR. BOYD: Yeah.

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. And this -- this is your statement to Mitch on

7 December 15th; is that correct?

8 A. Yeah.

9 Q. And on the first page, that is Mr. Conner's comment

10 about the fact that there's a transmission problem; is

11 that correct?

12 MR. SIMPSON: Don, would you ask that again?

13 I didn't follow.

14 BY MR. BOYD:

15 Q. On the first page, these -- the e-mail from Jake

16 Conner on the bottom, Saturday, December 15, 2007,

17 1:50 PM. That's to Mitch, which was forwarded to

18 Mr. Leonard.

19 A. Okay.

20 Q. Explains --

21 A. What's your question?

22 Q. Does that explain Mr. Conner's claim that the

23 transmission actually broke; it's not a shifting

24 problem?

25 A. Well, it might have been his explanation, but the


Page 74

1 problem with this whole thing is we never really were

2 able to see the problem, nor was it properly

3 identified to make an evaluation of it.


5 identification.)

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. I'm going to hand you what will be marked as 11. Do


9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is this an e-mail from you to Mitch Bogden?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Dated December 18, 2007?

13 A. Uh-huh.

14 Q. In here, the first sentence you're -- is that your

15 statement? "Hi, Mitch, I'm planning to swap the

16 tractor tomorrow or Friday with the Cashmere guy"?

17 A. Yes. We were anxious to find out what the problem was

18 and this was a way to do it.


20 identification.)

21 BY MR. BOYD:

22 Q. I'm going to hand you what we'll mark as 12. Do you

23 recognize this document?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And it's an e-mail from -- at the bottom, from you to


Page 75

1 Mitch, December 20th, and then his reply to you the

2 21st of December, 2007; is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And this point, you're commenting to Mitch that you're

5 looking for weather reports? I presume this was to

6 get up to Cashmere; is that correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And then Mitch coming on -- or commenting back to you

9 that the weather was not looking good for that day and

10 that Mitch at that point was then taking a replacement

11 tractor to this -- to Mr. Conner; is that correct?

12 A. What was that again now?

13 Q. That -- the second paragraph of Mitch's reply at the

14 top. He is taking the customer a replacement today.

15 A. Yeah. He lent him some other customer's tractor, if I

16 remember this correct.

17 Q. And at the bottom paragraph -- or the bottom sentence,

18 I guess there are two sentences of Mitch's e-mail. On

19 the top it says, "With the snow coming, this customer

20 would have lost his patience and started complaining

21 to the bank, so I better get him taken care of." Is

22 that -- do you recall that -- receiving that from

23 Mitch?

24 A. That's the job of a dealer that sells a tractor.

25 Q. And this was three days after you said you were


Page 76

1 planning to swap Mr. Conner a tractor?

2 A. Well, we were having trouble analyzing what the

3 problem was. We were getting different stories and

4 weren't getting anything clear exactly what was wrong

5 with it. There was also some phone calls in between

6 all of this, so that's what the situation was.

7 And we only had a two-wheel drive truck at the

8 time, so our mode of getting up there was either going

9 up through Goldendale or going over White Pass, and

10 neither looked good for our truck.


12 identification.)

13 BY MR. BOYD:

14 Q. I'll hand you what will be marked as 13. Do you

15 recognize this?

16 A. Yes.


18 A. Yeah, it looks like -- I think this is just more

19 discussion of the same thing.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. That is the same -- it's the same exact letter you

22 showed me before here from here on down (indicating).

23 Q. The top one, is that your e-mail to Mitch?

24 A. Yeah. Part of the problem here was that we just had

25 let everybody go over Christmas.


Page 77

1 Q. From the 21st through the 26th?

2 A. I don't remember exact time duration, but it was --

3 definitely included those days.


5 identification.)

6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. I'm handing you what's been marked as 14. Do you


9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Is this your e-mail to Mitch on December 23, 2007?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And you wrote this?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And this deals with Mr. Conner and his tractor issue?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. In this you say that you were -- you would have run up

17 there, but giving loaners always kills sales?

18 A. No. Your drawing a conclusion. I said loaners killed

19 sales. The answer is to fix -- get the tractor back.

20 He couldn't get the tractor back himself. And I said,

21 "Hey, get the tractor back, fix it." That's what the

22 dealer obligations are. Giving loaners back --

23 especially when he's giving another customer's tractor

24 to this guy. That's what he'd done on numerous

25 situations. He's got somebody else's tractor in for


Page 78

1 service and gives it to the guy. Well, that's no way

2 to --

3 Q. I mean, basically this is December 23. This is five

4 days after you told Mitch that you were going to pick

5 up the tractor.

6 A. Yeah, we --

7 Q. And then the second paragraph there you state that "I

8 got a phone message from this guy griping about not

9 being over there," correct?

10 A. Yeah.

11 Q. "I told him we would get there as soon the weather

12 cleared up and we are able to schedule it."

13 A. We had several things that were working here at one

14 time. Number one, we were looking at Christmas

15 vacation with key people gone. We're looking at

16 weather, and we're looking at a lot different things.

17 And we're looking to do Mr. Bogden's work for him.

18 And I was -- I had told him on a phone call to just

19 pick the thing up and it -- because Cashmere's way out

20 of the way, but --

21 Q. Midway through that paragraph it says, "He wasn't

22 patient and said on our answering machine I

23 promised -- I had promised him."

24 A. Yeah.

25 Q. Okay.


Page 79


2 identification.)

3 BY MR. BOYD:

4 Q. On the bottom it's an e-mail from you to Mitch Bogden

5 December 24th; is that correct?

6 A. Which one now?

7 Q. The bottom of Page 1. It's in the large font, Mitch.

8 MR. SIMPSON: What date, Don?

9 MR. BOYD: It looks like it's December 24th,

10 2007.

11 THE WITNESS: 23rd, you mean?

12 MR. SIMPSON: 23rd.

13 MR. BOYD: Talk about -- let's see. Are we

14 on the same document?

15 MR. SIMPSON: You're on 106.

16 MR. BOYD: No, no. Let's see. We're

17 talking about different documents.

18 MR. SIMPSON: That's the one you gave me,

19 Don.

20 MR. BOYD: I must have skipped over one.

21 Yeah. Okay. I skipped over one. Sorry.

22 BY MR. BOYD:

23 Q. December 23rd.

24 A. Okay. What do you want?

25 Q. This is Mitch's e-mail to you on December 23rd; is


Page 80

1 that correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And at this point, Mitch is stating that he is going

4 to talk to Mr. Conner about intent to swap tractors;

5 is that correct?

6 A. Right.

7 Q. And indicating that Mr. Conner's already sent a demand

8 letter for the refund of his down payment. That's in

9 the second paragraph.

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And at the end of that third paragraph, Mr. Bogden is

12 commenting about the warranty issues and that -- that

13 there's issues that the customer may raise with regard

14 to -- you know, if there are mechanical flaws, that

15 they could make all sorts of claims; is that correct?

16 A. Your sentence doesn't make sense --

17 Q. Basically, it's -- at the end he's saying -- last --

18 second to last -- "Even if you can't call it a

19 mechanical flaw, they can claim it is a design flaw";

20 is that correct?

21 A. I can read that's what it says.

22 Q. So Mr. Bogden was notifying you that, you know, with

23 a -- with problems like this, customers, if they

24 weren't taken care of, could start raising other

25 additional legal issues; is that correct?


Page 81

1 A. They could.

2 Q. Then if you'd look at Page 129, it's -- I guess at the

3 bottom of page -- couple numbers here.

4 TCO Number 129?

5 A. Okay.

6 Q. And this is -- at the bottom it's an e-mail from J.

7 Conner to Mitch. At the top it appears that that was

8 then forwarded on to you. And Mr. Conner, then, is

9 also raising the issue that the three-point hitch lift

10 arm broke; is that correct?

11 A. Where are you at now?

12 Q. It's the bottom -- it's from J --

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And so that's another problem with one of the

15 tractors?

16 A. Well, yes. But this is also what this -- we have all

17 kinds of continuing information coming up where -- and

18 when this one came through, the guy -- Mitch is

19 telling me that the guy's going in reverse with a

20 blade on the back and broke the three-point arms.

21 That tells me -- I've never had three-point arms

22 break, and that tells me the guy hit something. And

23 then we go on to discuss that. So it -- then it

24 starts looking like it's not a warranty issue.



Page 82

1 identification.)

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. Hand you what's going to be marked as 16. Do you


5 A. Yes.

6 Q. At the bottom here it's your e-mail to Mitch on

7 December 24th at 8:38 in the morning; is that correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And on this you're saying that -- the second or third

10 sentence -- I guess fourth sentence, the third line

11 down, "We will go to Cashmere at the earliest best

12 weather time." Is that your statement?

13 A. I said it would also help if the customer could keep

14 us up on the aspect of the weather.

15 Q. And this is eight days after your e-mail of

16 December 18th saying that you were going to go up

17 there to swap the tractor tomorrow or Friday; is that

18 correct.

19 A. We'd been pressured by Mr. Bogden to help him out and

20 we tried to, but we just couldn't make it work at that

21 time. But then information was changing on what the

22 problem was continually. And then it started looking

23 like it was not a warranty issue whatsoever.

24 Q. Do you have any e-mails stating that -- that it wasn't

25 a warranty issue, that it wasn't the transmission's


Page 83

1 reverse idle gear that had failed?

2 A. I don't recall anything about any details would have

3 happened down the line with this guy's particular

4 tractor.

5 Q. Or any e-mails that say that the weld on the hitch

6 weren't --

7 A. Just a minute here.

8 Q. -- wasn't faulty?

9 A. The rule we have on our warranty is that we have to

10 have the items back so we can inspect them. We've

11 never had anything back from your client to inspect.

12 Whether it's this guy -- and that's always the problem

13 that we've had, and that's a condition of our

14 warranty. And we would like to have helped this guy,

15 but then all of the sudden we had a problem with the

16 weather. Then we started hearing other things that --

17 going in reverse with a snow blade means if -- if

18 you're going to break something, it's because you've

19 hit something. That's the most logical conclusion.

20 Q. Did you or any of your employees ever go up to

21 Mr. Conner's property?

22 A. No, we did not.

23 Q. Okay. Thank you.

24 A. And Mitch didn't either. That's why he was asking us

25 to.


Page 84


2 identification.)

3 Q. Look -- I'm going to hand you what's going to be

4 marked as 17.


6 BY MR. BOYD:

7 Q. I think we were looking at Exhibit 17. Do you


9 A. Yes.

10 Q. It appears to be an e-mail you sent to Mitch Bogden on

11 December 26, 2007, at 11:52 AM; is that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. First sentence there you say, "We have a tractor here

14 anytime if you want to pick one up and drop the other

15 off. We talked with him this AM and weather is bad."

16 I presume "him" in that second sentence means

17 Mr. Conner?

18 A. I'm not sure about that. But I know the first

19 sentence is relating to getting Mitch a tractor for

20 the guy.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. Well, yeah, the next sentence shows it's -- it is

23 showing that White Pass thing.

24 Q. Actually, the next one is two pages further along in

25 the same e-mail, Page 3 of 6, or TCO Number 149. Do


Page 85

1 you recognize this?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Looking at the top. It's an e-mail from Mitch to you

4 on December 24th, which is a couple days earlier.

5 Mitch says, "I guess I'm confused at this point. You

6 are no longer going to send someone to bring up a

7 replacement tractor to the customer and take back the

8 tractor with a broken transmission?"

9 A. You asking me something?

10 Q. Yeah. Is that -- do you recall receiving that

11 document, that e-mail?

12 A. Yeah. I don't really see -- it looks like an excerpt

13 of something because where's the rest of it? I didn't

14 sign off "Mark" like I always do. That's why I'm

15 wondering.

16 Q. Well, I'm talking about the top part. That's Mitch's

17 e-mail to you.

18 A. Yeah. That's why I say. That looks like an excerpt.

19 MR. SIMPSON: It's from Mitch to Mark.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah.

21 BY MR. BOYD:

22 Q. And then below that was your e-mail to him the day

23 before, on the 23rd. That second sentence is, "We

24 never had a bad one so we're curious"?

25 A. Uh-huh.


Page 86

1 Q. You've never had that problem with your tractor -- one

2 of your tractors?

3 A. Not like that.

4 Q. Okay.

5 A. Yeah, we're getting a lot of these things on these

6 different exhibits to look like the same things being

7 put in here all at different orders.


9 identification.)

10 BY MR. BOYD:

11 Q. Let's see. Handing you what's been marked as 18. Do


13 A. Yes.


15 A. Well, first part's talking about Jinma, one of the

16 competitive lines that was visiting my facility.

17 Q. Is this your e-mail to Mark -- or to Mitch?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. This was dated August 25th, 2007?

20 A. Yes.


22 identification.)

23 BY MR. BOYD:

24 Q. 19. Do you recognize this document?

25 A. Looks like something that went between us for sure.


Page 87

1 Q. And this also talks about Jinma?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And this is Mitch's e-mail to you about the Jinma line

4 of tractors?

5 A. Yes.

6 MR. BOYD: Let's take a break for a second.



9 identification.)

10 BY MR. BOYD:


12 A. Well, I don't recognize it, but I do recognize the

13 numbers at the bottom. I guess it's been registered

14 in the previous case -- arbitration.

15 Q. And it appears that this is an e-mail from Mitch to

16 you again discussing Jinma tractors? On that first

17 page, the second to the last full paragraph starts

18 with "anyway," do you see that?

19 A. Uh-huh.

20 Q. Midway through that comment, it says, "I do not mind

21 paying more for the tractors if they perform." Do you

22 see that sentence?

23 A. I don't see that second sentence you just mentioned,

24 the one about paying more.

25 MR. SIMPSON: It's right --


Page 88

1 THE WITNESS: Oh, down there. Okay.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. You see at the end where he's -- Mitch is commenting

4 about that there have been problems with the Chinese

5 tractors? I presume that's the Tytan tractors he's

6 talking about?

7 A. I wouldn't know. He carried a lot of different

8 Chinese tractors.

9 Q. Do you have any reason to believe it wasn't talking --

10 referring to you that these -- (inaudible) were you

11 selling him other Chinese tractors other than the

12 Tytan's?

13 A. I'll just tell you a little slogan that we go with. A

14 problem is not a problem unless you can't take care of

15 it.

16 Q. Well, were you selling him any other --

17 A. I didn't have any problem -- I never have had any

18 major problems.

19 Q. Were you selling him any other Chinese tractors other

20 than Tytan's?

21 A. Oh, he was looking at an Ibex line that we were going

22 to carry possibly.

23 Q. Did you sell him any other tractors other than Tytan

24 tractors?

25 A. No.


Page 89

1 Q. The last paragraph there, it says, "Tomorrow I'm going

2 to take time away from the office to make sure the

3 Cashmere tractor gets fixed. And at the same time,

4 going to take one of my other 334s as a loaner to a

5 customer who has a broken Yanmar in the hopes they

6 upgrade." You see that?

7 A. Uh-huh.

8 Q. At this point in December, he was doing what he could

9 to take care of Mr. Conner and also provide your

10 tractor to somebody else in the hope that they would

11 upgrade?

12 A. Well, I think he's talking about the same customer

13 there if you read the previous stuff. He loaned

14 Conner a Yanmar as well.

15 Q. Did Mr. Conner originally have a Tytan?

16 A. Originally. Then he was given a Yanmar and then he

17 was given a Bellingham guy's Tytan -- customer's

18 Tytan. Swapping tractors is only because you can't do

19 the service work. The quickest and easiest thing to

20 do is fix it.


22 identification.)

23 BY MR. BOYD:

24 Q. Going to hand you what's going to be marked as

25 Exhibit 21.


Page 90

1 MR. SIMPSON: Was this one 20 (indicating)?

2 MR. BOYD: That was 20.

3 THE WITNESS: You already got this one in

4 here, by the way.

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. Okay. It will be marked as its own, I guess. Maybe

7 that's where the copy went.


9 A. I don't particularly recognize it. It looks like one

10 of my letters, though.

11 Q. Do you believe Mitch there is Mitch Bogden?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. On the third paragraph from the bottom it says --

14 starts with "The axel"?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Do you see that? Is that your comments about axles on

17 Tytan tractors?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. It says, "Happy New Year." Not a date here, but do

20 you believe that would have been probably New Year of

21 2008?

22 A. I'm not sure.

23 MR. SIMPSON: Don, what date did you ask?

24 MR. BOYD: January 2008.

25 MR. SIMPSON: This is Number 19.


Page 91

1 (Inaudible) started as. Then we go to the next page,

2 which is 81 down here. Then the "Hi, Mitch."

3 MR. BOYD: Okay.

4 THE WITNESS: That's the date, then -- the

5 date looks like it's December 27, 2007.

6 MR. BOYD: Okay. So -- okay.

7 MR. SIMPSON: Which is close to January the

8 next year.


10 identification.)

11 BY MR. BOYD:

12 Q. Okay. Handing you what will be marked as 22. Do you


14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Is this -- the top is your e-mail to Mitch, January 6,

16 2008?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. And there you say that you've shipped tons of tractors

19 and not one transmission problem; is that correct?

20 A. Not this particular transmission problem like this,

21 no.

22 Q. Then below that, Mitch's e-mail to you. The first

23 sentence there -- or first paragraph there he says

24 he's -- the customer in Cashmere had the second

25 tractor, lost the transmission?


Page 92

1 A. Uh-huh.

2 Q. Then at the very bottom paragraph, it says -- now this

3 is interesting -- comments that the other guy in

4 Cashmere who lost his Yanmar now wants an older style

5 Tytan; is that correct?

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. Okay. So it sounds like there's two different people

8 involved here, it's not Mr. Conner for both. And that

9 looks like Mitch is attempting to resolve the issue by

10 giving him the Tytan tractor; is that correct?

11 A. That's what it looks like. Looks like he -- yeah,

12 that's right. This is where he swapped another

13 customer's tractor out to that guy.

14 Q. And he's providing another tractor to the other guy

15 to -- a new one to make up for the gentleman in

16 Bellingham's problem; is that correct?

17 A. I'm not sure.


19 identification.)

20 BY MR. BOYD:

21 Q. 23? And do you recognize this document?

22 A. Yeah, I know this one.

23 Q. In the third line -- this is Mitch's e-mail to you

24 January 7, 2008. Third line, it says, "You offered to

25 send a mechanic and replace the tractor before." Then


Page 93

1 there was the issue of snow on the pass. Do you

2 dispute that you offered to send a mechanic and

3 replacement tractor to Mitch?

4 A. At one time -- I'm just recalling that situation. I

5 think -- but then we also started getting different

6 things that broke along with it. And, you know, we're

7 not seeing any tractors getting repaired here. We're

8 just seeing him swapping everything in sight, and

9 that's not the job of a dealer, to fix it.

10 And we are not getting -- you know, we had

11 previously asked to see the tractors brought down to

12 our place, I believe. And we just finally offered to

13 go up and pick the thing up before Christmas, but that

14 just didn't work out.

15 Q. Ultimately, wasn't it determined that there was faulty

16 parts in at least 16 of these tractors?

17 A. No. We got 16 tractors -- well, there was 16 tractors

18 in with idler gear problems, that was the wrong part

19 put in. The other dealers and myself, we all

20 exchanged them out and fixed them. Instantly didn't

21 have anymore problems.

22 Q. And that occurred after this period of time; is that

23 correct?

24 A. Well, we -- no. We did not know until March exactly

25 what this idler gear problem was. We had no idea for


Page 94

1 ourselves, even about the 16 tractors, because we

2 couldn't get this thing back to look at it. All we do

3 is get e-mails and e-mails and e-mails and no repair,

4 no pictures, nothing.

5 Q. The last paragraph of Mitch's e-mail to you here, it

6 starts with, "If this particular situation does not

7 get resolved quickly, in effect, we'll have

8 significant problems. This customer's credible and

9 capable." Do you recall Mitch sending that

10 information to you?

11 A. I recall it. But when you have that exclusive dealer

12 in that area, who's going to be responsible for

13 significant problems to get repaired?


15 identification.)

16 BY MR. BOYD:

17 Q. I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as 24.


19 A. Yeah, I do.

20 Q. And this is your e-mail to Mitch on January 7, 2008?

21 A. Right.

22 Q. In this you're discussing that you -- you and your

23 guys discussed what was done with Mr. Conner's

24 tractors?

25 A. Yeah.


Page 95

1 Q. At that point, had you had anybody go up there to take

2 a look at it?

3 A. It's not our job to go up there. We had offered to

4 help him before Christmas, but that's the job of the

5 dealer that handles that exclusive area.

6 Q. And despite your prior statements that you were going

7 to go up there; is that correct?

8 A. We tried to -- we tried to get him to come pick them

9 up and he wouldn't or didn't have a trailer or

10 something, so we tried to get him to go to his place.

11 And there was a mix up. And then we tried to go over

12 to Cashmere and the weather wasn't permitting, and

13 that was Christmas and everything else.


15 identification.)

16 BY MR. BOYD:

17 Q. 25. You recognize this document?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. It looks like it says -- series of documents the --

20 starting with the bottom is your e-mail that we just

21 talked about in 24. And then the next -- the middle

22 of the page is Mitch's reply to you about that, and

23 his comment. That probably is the largest flaw in the

24 below argument is the three point is clearly a flawed

25 casting from the factory. I have it here when you


Page 96

1 want to see it. The flaw is right" -- is, I think

2 it's supposed to be "in" or "is right" is done

3 twice -- "the weakest part of the linkage."

4 Then your comment above that is to Mitch. "The

5 three point may not have a good weld," etc. Was that

6 your comment to him about the problem with this --

7 A. But by the way, the accident had to happen and what

8 happened are still a giveaway to me. Bring one down

9 and I'll swap it as we want to see it. That's our

10 job. We want to see the stuff.

11 You got a whole pile of stuff here and that's

12 exactly what we don't want. We want to get the thing

13 fixed, want to see what the problem is. Took us till

14 March to finally find out what was wrong. It's all

15 speculative other than that.

16 Q. But you never had anybody go up there?

17 A. It's not our job to do that when we give a guy a

18 dealership. It's not our job. We tried to help him

19 before Christmas. It didn't work out.

20 Q. You never had anybody go up there at any time?

21 A. No, I didn't.


23 identification.)

24 BY MR. BOYD:

25 Q. 26. Do you recognize document?


Page 97

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And this is Mitch's e-mail to you on January 21, 2008?

3 A. Uh-huh. I don't see 21 on here.

4 Q. Up at the top. Sent January 21, 2008. Right --

5 A. What I'm looking at is January 28th.

6 MR. SIMPSON: I'm looking at 28th, too.

7 MR. BOYD: Okay. Let me take a look.

8 MR. SIMPSON: It's TCO Number 201, Don.

9 BY MR. BOYD:

10 Q. So 26 is January 28th. Series of e-mails between you

11 and Mitch; is that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And basically at that point -- I guess the bottom one

14 is the first one and the top one is your reply two

15 days later. So the first line is a January 26 e-mail

16 from Mitch to you, and this talks about him bringing

17 the two tractors to swap; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And so as of January 28th, you hadn't sent anybody up

20 to see the tractors or been able to see the tractors;

21 is that correct?

22 A. No. We'd asked to see what was wrong with those

23 tractors and he wouldn't provide that information.

24 Q. And then thinking -- and swapping tractors?

25 A. Pardon?


Page 98

1 Q. And then at the bottom he's -- Mitch's e-mail on the

2 26th says, "Please get back to me to confirm and I

3 will plan a visit midweek"; is that correct?

4 A. Yes.


6 identification.)

7 BY MR. BOYD:

8 Q. Then I'm going to hand you what's 27. Do you


10 A. I don't recall the first top part there at all.

11 Q. Do you dispute you ever received that e-mail?

12 A. I don't know. I'm starting to wonder about a lot of

13 these right now.


15 identification.)

16 MR. SIMPSON: Last one was 27?

17 THE COURT REPORTER: Yeah.

18 BY MR. BOYD:


20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Is this your e-mail to Mitch?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Dated February 9, 2008?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And at the top, it says, "We cannot" -- or the first


Page 99

1 sentence, "We cannot take back. The two tractors are

2 essentially now used"?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Okay. And this would be in response, apparently, to

5 either Mitch's e-mails on January 28th about swapping

6 the two tractors?

7 A. Where is that?

8 Q. The prior exhibits, 27 and 26.

9 A. It says here in that January 28th that you're pointing

10 to, my note to Mitch says, "I will want to see those

11 two tractors soon to diagnosis the problem."

12 Q. I'm asking is your -- Exhibit 27 is your reply to

13 Mitch and his prior e-mails?

14 A. We've got months of that tractor being up there with

15 problems, and I don't know if -- with all sorts of

16 input as to what caused things.

17 MR. SIMPSON: Take a look at Page 2.

18 THE WITNESS: Yeah. And Mitch wasn't

19 really -- that's another thing. All this time had

20 been gone by with this one customer. And even after

21 the weather did clear up, he never took care of it.

22 You know, that was his original thing, is he couldn't

23 get up there in the weather and apparently he didn't

24 have a trailer that would work good in that weather.

25 And so we were going to go help him, but then he


Page 100

1 got -- sent us this e-mail here and said, "Hey,

2 that's -- it's on the back burner." I --

3 BY MR. BOYD:

4 Q. He'd already -- isn't it true that he'd already taken

5 up a replacement, one tractor?

6 A. Yeah, but that's not solving the problem of the

7 tractors. That's what we talking about. We don't

8 care about Yanmar tractors. We're talking about the

9 tractors that we have to have some kind of -- even if

10 he'd sent us pictures. That's what in our agreement.

11 You got to provide pictures, provide the actual

12 product back, something so we can see if its a

13 warranty issue.

14 And furthermore, what we found out in the

15 arbitration is the tractors that we -- that -- for

16 example, the one that he used as his prime example,

17 the one and only tractor that broke on the front axel

18 deal, the other two were preventative medicine, he

19 said. The only one to break was Steve Olsen's. He

20 sold that -- we found out that tractor was sold as is.

21 It had been sold prior. Here's a list of all the

22 prior sales of his tractors.

23 So, you know, we're not really dealing with a

24 square deck here.

25 Q. Wasn't it true that mid-December you had promised or


Page 101

1 told Mr. Conner that you would go up there and have

2 somebody go up there?

3 A. Mitch had called me up to go up there, and I -- we

4 were totally willing to help him out until the weather

5 and the Christmas all -- nothing seemed to work. Then

6 the weather was cleared up and it really was no reason

7 he couldn't take care of it.

8 Q. And as of February, the weather had cleared up and you

9 hadn't gone up there either; is that true?

10 A. It's not my job to go up there.

11 Q. Mr. Conner states that you had promised that you

12 would; is that correct?

13 A. I -- I don't know about what Mr. Conner -- he made a

14 statement in there that he thought he was -- we were

15 coming up at that one time, but doesn't mean that that

16 was all we could do.

17 Q. Do you know a person by the name of Eddie Monk

18 (phonetic)?

19 A. Yes, I do.

20 Q. How do you know him?

21 A. Eddie Monk bought a tractor from us and -- well, no.

22 Eddie Monk did not buy a tractor from us, his sister

23 in Oregon bought a tractor from us down in southern

24 Oregon. And he was going to deliver it down there.

25 Well, in reality, after a while we found out that


Page 102

1 that was not the case. He bought the tractor to avoid

2 not paying Washington State taxes. And then we also

3 found out he was using that tractor for commercial

4 purposes, which is void of our warranty. We still

5 helped him out at every point.

6 Q. Did he sue you?

7 A. He sued us.

8 Q. Do you know a company called Cowlitz Tractor?

9 A. Who?

10 Q. Cowlitz Tractor?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And how do you know them?

13 A. They were making some untrue statements.

14 Q. Did they sue you?

15 A. Yes. Well, they didn't sue; we sued.

16 Q. What was that suit about?

17 A. Defamation.

18 Q. How was that resolved?

19 A. We won.

20 Q. Okay. Is that a public record judgment?

21 A. I imagine. I don't recall. It was -- we won. That's

22 all I know.

23 Q. Do you know a gentleman by the name of Richard

24 Belanger?

25 MR. SIMPSON: Would you spell the last name.


Page 103

1 MR. BOYD: B-E-L-A-N-G-E-R.

2 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think I do. I think

3 he's a guy from Montana that was a customer of

4 Hoaglund Equipment.

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. And do you know if there was any lawsuit involved

7 there?

8 A. Not that I know.

9 Q. Do you know people by the name of Tanya and Kurt

10 Browning?

11 A. I know that Mr. Bogden sued them and lost. That's all

12 I know.

13 Q. Do you know, was that a tractor that you direct

14 shipped --

15 A. It was a tractor he swapped out again. Didn't fix it.

16 Tractor that -- same stuff. Didn't do the service.

17 Q. Do you know a person by the name of Rick Cox?

18 A. Yes, I do .

19 Q. Was there any problems? Did he buy a tractor?

20 A. Yeah, Rick Cox bought a tractor from Mitch Bogden, and

21 the tractor was a used tractor. And they almost went

22 to legal blows. We talked to the guy and we sent a

23 guy down to Arizona and took care of him. Mr. Bogden

24 knew the tractors had a problem before he shipped

25 them.


Page 104

1 Q. And what was the problem?

2 A. He surmised they had a problem, but he didn't know.

3 Q. Did Mr. Cox claim that there was a front steering

4 bracket that broke?

5 A. I don't know anything about the front steering

6 bracket.

7 Q. Were there problems with steering brackets on some of

8 these tractors that were Tytan tractors?

9 A. No.

10 Q. No?

11 A. Well, which ones are you talking about? Let's talk

12 specific.

13 Q. Any. Did you -- did Tytan tractors have any

14 complaints from people?

15 A. You mentioned that -- that gal that he sued, I never

16 talked to her. You mentioned Eddie Monk, he didn't

17 buy a 334 or a 324. He never had a steering bracket

18 problem. You mentioned Mr. Cox. He had a 24 set

19 roller pin out in his clutch. That come out. That's

20 all.

21 Same things that was wrong with Fred Kramer's

22 tractor. Same thing that was wrong with Harvey's

23 tractor. It's just a -- they were small, small

24 issues.

25 Q. What about the sparks?


Page 105

1 A. Sparks? Sparks, I don't recall exactly what his deal

2 was, but I know that he was lifting a stump that was

3 extremely heavy. The tires were depressed, which is a

4 symbol that it's overloaded. And I know that he had

5 used it very abruptly. And I know also that he had

6 bent his tie rod several times.

7 Q. How do you know this?

8 A. Because there's some correspondence on his tie rods,

9 and we sold him tie rods.

10 Q. How do you know that the tires were depressed and that

11 he was --

12 A. Mr. Bogden's got a written up synopsis of the tires

13 being depressed. There's also a picture of it.

14 Q. While this --

15 A. While with the stump.

16 MR. SIMPSON: Don, do you want a copy? I'll

17 get a copy of that picture.

18 MR. BOYD: Yeah, sure.


20 MR. SIMPSON: Because that picture was in

21 his pre statement proof.

22 Wasn't it.


24 MR. SIMPSON: The arbitration.

25 BY MR. BOYD:


Page 106

1 Q. Do you know a company called Spring Valley Equipment?

2 A. Yes, I do.

3 Q. Did they ever have any problems with tractors that

4 they -- Tytan tractors that they had sold?

5 A. He had some kind of problem with a pump or something

6 like that. I don't remember exactly what it was.

7 Q. Do you know a gentleman named Steve Rebrovich

8 (phonetic)?

9 A. Yes, I do.

10 Q. Did he have any problems with a Tytan tractor that

11 he'd purchased?

12 A. Rebrovich called up to buy some parts. We packed the

13 order, shipped it, asked for the credit card.

14 Wouldn't supply a credit card. We took the goods, put

15 them back in stock. He went through the same routine

16 again. It was a lot of small, little parts, and he

17 wanted the items itemized. We don't do that. It was

18 an assembly that we were selling and we're not going

19 to break the items down.

20 We gave him a dealer in Idaho to -- that would

21 break the parts down for him and he declined buying

22 from him. And from there on, your client has revved

23 the guy up to be a real Rebrovich.

24 Q. And Steve Olsen?

25 A. Yeah, you should read the letter that was introduced


Page 107

1 in the arbitration. Steve Olsen -- Steve Olsen was

2 the one example of the broken steering bracket that --

3 that he presented to court -- to the Consumer

4 Protection Agency, rather, that he had replaced the

5 brackets on. And it was a warranty issue and dug --

6 he dug parts from us, on all these guys for free parts

7 that we supplied gladly to try to help him out. He --

8 when Judge Peterson cornered him and said, "Listen,

9 how many brackets did you actually replace?" He says,

10 "Three."

11 He says, "All the" -- the judge says, "All three

12 broke?" He says, "No, only one broke. The other two

13 were just preventative medicine." One broke. There

14 is no 33 percent failure rate on those things.

15 Then we get Mr. Olsen's tractor in and the whole

16 thing is modified. It's made into a tank. That's

17 what he went to the Consumer Protection guys with.

18 Then we look at his sale -- bill of sale. His bill of

19 sale says "as is." Then we look at the items in here

20 and the tractor had been sold before. And he's

21 claiming warranty on us? And he's claiming all these

22 things that are -- he's doing all this stuff to the --

23 Q. So you're saying that once a tractor is sold, there is

24 no more warranty on it after, you know --

25 A. Warranty is with the original owner.


Page 108

1 Q. So you're not going to stand up for a tractor that --

2 A. Not -- we're not a tractor -- that's the other thing.

3 There was no warranty card sent in. That's another

4 thing your client never adhered to. He wouldn't send

5 the warranty cards in, because what he was doing was

6 selling them over and over and over, getting warranty

7 stuff out of us.

8 MR. SIMPSON: Now, when you were making a

9 reference to "he," who is he?

10 THE WITNESS: Mitch Bogden.

11 You should take a look at the final letter

12 of Mr. Olsen, what he wrote up and was the final

13 letter introduced in court by us as to his

14 relationship with your client.

15 BY MR. BOYD:

16 Q. Do you know of a company called Sunset Distributing?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. What are they? A dealer of Tytan tractors?

19 A. We never gave them a territory or anything else. They

20 bought a few tractors off of us. That's the last we

21 every heard of them.

22 Q. Did they have any problems with any of their tractors?

23 A. We've shipped them a few little parts but nothing

24 major. And he just called the other day for some

25 parts we shipped to him.


Page 109

1 Q. And do you just ship parts because there's no problems

2 with tractors or --

3 A. He bought them.

4 Q. He bought the parts?

5 A. Yeah.

6 Q. To, I presume, replace other parts?

7 A. That's what we carry parts for. We sell parts.

8 Q. Do you know a gentleman by the name of Dave Harris?

9 A. Yeah.

10 Q. And --

11 A. Dave Harris had hardly any problems, and Mitch wrote

12 him a letter. You ought to have a copy of it. The

13 letter, he's misleading the guy in to -- these guys

14 all have Mitch's number. Here it is, right here

15 (indicating). There's your letter. I'll read it for

16 you.

17 Q. No, that's fine. I'll ask the questions here.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. Thanks. Did Mr. Harris have any problems with any of

20 the Tytan tractors?

21 A. No. He had a problem with a -- well, I don't know if

22 he had any problems. I don't remember any problems.

23 He might have had a problem, but I don't -- he really

24 hadn't bought hardly any parts from us. He had a

25 problem with a log splitter.


Page 110


2 identification.)

3 BY MR. BOYD:

4 Q. I'm going to hand you what's 29. Do you recognize

5 this document?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Is this the order -- did you sign this letter?

8 A. Yes, I did.

9 Q. And this was submitted to Pamela McDonald of the US

10 Consumer Protection Safety Commission?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And this relates to Mr. Belanger?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. And apparently Mr. Belanger filed some sort of

15 complaint, I presume, with the US Consumer Protection

16 Safety Commission?

17 A. I don't know. I don't remember. I don't know. I

18 think it was one that was brought up by Mitch to them.

19 Q. Was Mitch -- did Mitch sell Mr. Belanger the tractor?

20 A. Huh?

21 Q. It says it -- you know --

22 A. Yeah, I don't know. This -- who this -- it says -- I

23 don't know who this -- my memory is too foggy to

24 really make a comment on this. Too long ago. This

25 Belanger or whatever his name is, I thought was a


Page 111

1 customer of -- I thought he was from Montana, but I

2 don't know. It says Sunset. Too long ago for me to

3 be accurate on my memory. Yeah. Okay.

4 MR. SIMPSON: What's it say?

5 THE WITNESS: It says, "Mr. Belanger

6 purchased a tractor from Sunset Distributing in Sante

7 Fe, New Mexico. His tractor was sold to him with a

8 parts-only warranty. This type of warranty is used in

9 cases where the purchaser are too far away from the

10 dealership for the dealer to actively do labor work.

11 In other words, they must find their own local

12 mechanic.

13 "Mr. Belanger called here several times for help

14 and parts. We assisted him several times. We told

15 him numerous times to get a qualified mechanic. None

16 of his complaints ever involved what we consider a

17 major or minor warranty issue. They were extremely

18 easy fixes. Mr. Belanger has continued to use the

19 tractor and so he obviously has wear issues that do

20 not require service and adjustments."

21 He -- as I said, so he obviously has continued to

22 use the tractor and so he obviously has wear issues

23 that do not require service --

24 MR. SIMPSON: You reading "not" in there.

25 That do what?


Page 112

1 THE WITNESS: "Mr. Belanger has continued to

2 use the tractor, and so he obviously has wear issues

3 that do require service and adjustments," yeah.

4 BY MR. BOYD:

5 Q. And Mr. Belanger hired an attorney with regard to the

6 matter of this tractor? Is that -- down below.

7 Mr. Belanger decided to hire an attorney.

8 A. Yeah.

9 Q. And --

10 A. I wrote -- yeah. I do recall this. I think I wrote

11 him back and wrote his attorney a letter back and told

12 him that if he wanted to give his customer good

13 advice, is to take it to a qualified mechanic rather

14 than pay attorney's fees.

15 Q. Do you recall what the problems were with regards to

16 Mr. Belanger's tractor?

17 A. Not right now. It was -- I do think I remember it was

18 a different -- it was not a 324 or 334, either. It

19 was a smaller tractor.

20 Q. Do you recall a gentleman by the name of Deiter

21 Jaegers?

22 A. Yes. That's the Montana guy I was thinking of.


24 identification.)

25 BY MR. BOYD:


Page 113

1 A. Okay. I remember this one now.

2 Q. Did you receive this e-mail from Mr. Jaegers?

3 A. Yes, I did.

4 Q. In this e-mail he apparently is complaining about the

5 three-point hitch breaking in number 3. You see that?

6 A. Okay.

7 Q. And generally stating that he'd made efforts with

8 Yellowstone Tractor, apparently, to get things

9 resolved but had to eventually come to you; is that

10 correct?

11 A. Pardon?

12 Q. Eventually he was writing to you; is that correct?

13 A. Yeah. What happened on this deal, myself and two

14 mechanics drove over to Belgrade, Montana specifically

15 to oversee fixing this guy's tractor. And he didn't

16 show. And then he didn't bring -- wouldn't bring the

17 tractor in. And so then the dealer also sent him

18 letters to bring the tractor in and he'd fix it

19 himself. He didn't bring it, never brought it in.

20 End of story.

21 Q. So you went to Montana to take care of this guy's

22 issue, but you couldn't make it up to Cashmere,

23 Washington to take care of Mr. Conner; is that

24 correct?

25 A. I took -- this particular situation, I was already


Page 114

1 going over to -- on a sales trip to that dealer, so

2 that's why I went over there.


4 identification.)

5 BY MR. BOYD:

6 Q. I'm going to hand you what will be marked as 31. This

7 is an e-mail from John Sparks to Mitch Bogden dated

8 January 18, 2010. The second paragraph there, it

9 starts with "Two different people at Tytan told me

10 they knew the bracket was bad and had to be redesigned

11 because many had broken on other tractors." Do you

12 think that's a false statement?

13 A. We had been asked by one of our customers that was in

14 the steel business if we would get some made that were

15 heavier duty. The problem is caused when the tie rod

16 is bent. When somebody bends the tie rod, it has to

17 be in perfect alignment with the power cylinder. If

18 you bend a tie rod, then the throw of the cylinder is

19 off, and then you'll fatigue a part to death. It

20 happens on all tractors with similar design.

21 So Mr. Sparks' tractor, he had rewelded -- he had

22 broke --

23 Q. What I'm asking is, did you -- do you think that his

24 statement that he had talked to two people at Tytan

25 and they said that the bracket was bad is a false


Page 115

1 statement?

2 A. Well, yes. We've had the parts tested by PSI and they

3 met -- they come out to three to four times the --

4 Q. What I'm asking you is, do you think that Mr. Sparks

5 is lying when he said he talked to two people at Tytan

6 and they told him that the bracket was bad?

7 A. I think that's his interpretation of what they said.

8 Q. Thank you.


10 identification.)

11 BY MR. BOYD:

12 Q. That's 32. Do you recognize this document?

13 A. Yes.


15 A. It looks like a page out of Mitch's website.

16 Q. Okay. Is there anything in this that you state is

17 false, actually?

18 A. It's all exactly what Judge Peterson ruled about your

19 client.

20 Q. Is this --

21 A. Deceptive.

22 Q. Is this --

23 A. Deceptive. That means false.

24 Q. Let's take a look at the first sentence. "Before you

25 consider the purchase of a Tytan tractor, you should


Page 116

1 come and compare a model 334 side by side with one of

2 our high-quality TYM tractors."

3 Is that false?

4 A. Yeah, it is, because he left a couple of our tractors,

5 those two he was too lazy to repair. Left them out in

6 the rain to rust and then compared them. And so you

7 go up there and it's an ugly, ugly looking situation.

8 It's deceptive.

9 Q. "We also invite you to take a look at the transmission

10 parts from the last four tractors we have in stock."

11 Is there anything false about that? Had

12 transmissions failed?

13 A. I had people that visited the place and turned around

14 and bought tractors from me, if that answers the

15 question.

16 Q. No. I mean, is that false? Is that sentence false?

17 Did the transmissions fail?

18 MR. SIMPSON: All four?

19 THE WITNESS: The question is, Mr. Bogden

20 got his parts on March 10th to replace three idler

21 gears. He didn't do it. Instead, he shipped the

22 tractors off to somebody else. And Tytan has fixed

23 everyone of his. We have had to fix every tractor

24 that he didn't do any service on. Every one we have

25 had to do that on. He did no service work.


Page 117

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. I'd like to see the documents for all that.

3 A. Yeah. I'll give you the name of the customers. You

4 can call them. And while you're at it, why don't you

5 look at the 80 video deals on each of them, all of our

6 customers giving their responses.

7 MR. SIMPSON: Don, just for clarification.

8 Documents on fixing Tytan --

9 MR. BOYD: Apparently the tractors that --

10 yeah. For the problems that were raised here, I guess

11 the transmission problems.

12 MR. SIMPSON: The one with the bearing

13 issues? The wrong bearing?

14 MR. BOYD: The wrong bearing.

15 BY MR. BOYD:

16 Q. We have -- next sentence. "We have several Tytan

17 buyers who would be happy to answer your questions

18 regarding their experience." Is that false?

19 A. Yeah. Not one of them showed up in court. Isn't that

20 something? He told them --

21 Q. Is that false?

22 A. That's false.

23 MR. SIMPSON: What about the sentence before

24 that, Don?

25 BY MR. BOYD:


Page 118

1 Q. "All four had the same problem and Tytan International

2 has yet to issue a recall or service bulletin as of

3 1-9-10."

4 Had Tytan issued a recall --

5 A. On what do -- service bulletin on what?

6 Q. Apparently, the transmission issue.

7 A. Why should we order a service bulletin when all the

8 dealers got the parts to replace them and it should

9 have been repaired? The other dealers, not one of

10 them had a problem. Not one of the other dealers had

11 a problem. Your guy wouldn't repair it.

12 Q. But --

13 MR. SIMPSON: What did the arbitrator find

14 about that?

15 MR. BOYD: I'm not asking, Jeff.

16 THE WITNESS: That's exactly what he found.

17 BY MR. BOYD:

18 Q. Were there potential customers that would not have

19 been able to go through a dealer that you would have

20 been able to notify that there was this problem with

21 the transmission?

22 A. There is no problem with the transmission. You don't

23 quite understand, do you? 16 tractors had the wrong

24 part put in.

25 Q. And that's not a problem with the transmission?


Page 119

1 A. That is not a problem with the transmission design or

2 anything else. It's a wrong part. All they had to do

3 is be replaced. There's no problem with the design of

4 that transmission.

5 Q. I'm not asking about a design problem. I'm asking

6 is -- was that a problem with the operation of the

7 tractor while it was operating --

8 A. Shouldn't have been. Not if you had -- if a dealer

9 had the parts to replace ahead of time. Shouldn't

10 have been a problem in the world. And when the dealer

11 had been notified and sent the parts? Shouldn't have

12 been.

13 Your client writes in one of his letters, he

14 supposed there really was a problem there. But he

15 went ahead and shipped it, even though it was a

16 life-threatening situation, according to what he

17 claimed.

18 Q. And that was with the steering bracket?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. Okay. I think we're talking about transmission issues

21 right now.

22 A. Yeah. 16 -- who are we going to issue a notice to

23 when the dealers already got the problem fixed? How

24 do we know he didn't fix the three that he got --

25 three or four that he got?


Page 120

1 Q. And how were you -- how do you know that you solved

2 all of the problems?

3 A. Do you think Ford does that if they catch the

4 something before it leaves, gets to the dealers or

5 after it gets to the dealer before any of them been

6 shipped? You think they issued a recall?

7 Q. Well, wasn't this problem raised first by Mitch and

8 Mr. Conner because of that --

9 A. We didn't know what the problem was. We sat there for

10 four months while he -- you read some more of your

11 letters and you're going to see he wouldn't work.

12 That's the prolem. He wasn't even going to look at

13 it. That's why he's not a dealer of ours.

14 Q. Weren't you the one who also promised Mitch and

15 Mr. Conner that you would go up there and take a look

16 at this after he had --

17 A. We tried to do it during that one time. But when the

18 weather got better, we were going aide him because he

19 couldn't get there. But he didn't have the trailer to

20 do it with or something like that, and so we were

21 going to try to help him. But after the weather got

22 good, there's no reason that he couldn't go get it.

23 Q. Isn't this true that Mr. Conner and Mr. Bogden brought

24 this issue to your attention at four months after the

25 problem was brought to your attention, then you


Page 121

1 investigated the problem?

2 A. No, that's not true. We never had a conversation with

3 Mr. Conner four months after the deal. He took care

4 of Mr. Conner with trades and swaps and everything

5 else back in January or something.

6 Q. And after Mr. Bogden through Mr. Conner's problems

7 with the tractor, it became -- you became aware and

8 Tytan became aware that it had at least 16 tractors

9 that had this problem; is that correct?

10 A. We found in early March that we had what the problem

11 was. That was the first one that we had seen.


13 identification.)

14 BY MR. BOYD:

15 Q. I'm going to hand you what's going to be marked as 33.

16 You recognize this document?

17 A. Yeah.

18 Q. Is there anything untrue in this document?

19 A. Yeah.

20 Q. What?

21 A. Well, I don't know about untrue. This guy over in

22 Cashmere said that we had promised to be there. I

23 don't ever promise to be anywhere because we had too

24 many variables. I will do my best to try to get over

25 there. And that's where -- what I'm saying in this


Page 122

1 deal in the first item there.

2 MR. SIMPSON: Go back to the first page.

3 THE WITNESS: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is

4 untrue here on the -- right underneath the picture.

5 It says, "We have had multiple failures of this part

6 on Tytan tractors." Well, he had one. That's untrue.

7 BY MR. BOYD:

8 Q. What --

9 A. He had one.

10 Q. What is this part?

11 A. Steering bracket.

12 Q. Okay. So Mr. Olsen didn't have a right front -- or a

13 front steering bracket problem?

14 A. We don't know what the situation is. We never got one

15 part back from Mr. Bogden.

16 MR. SIMPSON: He's not talking about Olsen.


18 BY MR. BOYD:

19 Q. Well -- and so Mr. Cox didn't have a front steering

20 bracket problem?

21 A. I don't know if he did or didn't.

22 Q. Sparks didn't have a front steering bracket problem?

23 A. He may have. I -- something -- I don't know if I

24 shipped him a tie rod or a steering bracket, but it's

25 caused by them bending the tie rod. And we have


Page 123

1 pictures of Mr. Sparks' tractor with welded tie rods,

2 by the way.

3 Q. But there were -- arguably, Mitch had three customers

4 who had front steering bracket problems?

5 A. No. He testified in front of Judge Peterson he only

6 had one, and that was a customer -- tractor that had

7 been sold as is and been sold several times, had no

8 warranty.

9 Q. But as you've stated in your e-mails that it doesn't

10 matter what a customer may or may not have, you can

11 still get sued; isn't that not correct?

12 A. I don't know what you're referring to.

13 Q. You dispute making that statement, that we are in a

14 society now where anything goes with consumers?

15 A. Where are you at?

16 Q. Second page, middle of the middle paragraph.

17 A. Oh, okay. I don't see anything about being sued in

18 that middle paragraph.

19 Q. Doesn't that insinuate that we're in a society --

20 A. Where are you seeing this?

21 THE WITNESS: Do you see it?

22 MR. SIMPSON: We are in a society...

23 BY MR. BOYD:

24 Q. 34 --

25 A. No, no. It's just -- all I'm saying here is we have


Page 124

1 check-off sheets that show if things are working and

2 not working and how it's handed over to the customer

3 and what's -- what shortages there could be or not

4 could be, and you got to have your paperwork done.

5 Q. What does the statement "We are now in a society where

6 anything goes with consumers" mean?

7 A. Pardon?

8 Q. What does that sentence mean, we are now in a society

9 where anything goes with consumers?

10 A. That means they're not claiming a part from you that

11 wasn't shipped with it or they might claim that --

12 different things and you have to make sure that you

13 have your paperwork done. We have check-off sheets

14 for that.

15 Q. Nothing to do with the lawsuits?

16 A. It could. Could be a lawsuit.


18 identification.)

19 BY MR. BOYD:

20 Q. I'm going to give you 34. Do you recognize this

21 document?

22 A. I think so. I've seen something like it.

23 Q. Give you a minute to review it.

24 Anything wrong with -- untrue in this document?

25 A. Yeah. It says faulty reverse idler gear. There was


Page 125

1 nothing faulty. It was a wrong part put in there.

2 Q. Anything else wrong or false in this statement or this

3 document?

4 A. Yeah. Mr. Hoagland did come and testified, and that's

5 exactly what Judge Peterson ruled on.

6 Q. Is there anything false in this?

7 A. Yeah. About Mr. Hoagland being foolish.

8 Q. Was that --

9 A. That's pretty dang --

10 Q. That's an opinion, isn't it? It's not --

11 A. Yeah, but this is a public document, that this guy's

12 trying to smear these people, smear a witness.

13 Q. And Mr. Hoagland never had -- Tytan never sent

14 Mr. Hoagland parts to repair --

15 A. There's another --

16 Q. -- tractors?

17 A. There's more here. It says, Mr. --

18 Q. Wait a second. So you're saying Tytan -- Tytan never

19 sent repair parts -- idler gear parts to

20 Mr. Hoagland's?

21 A. No, we sent them to Hoagland.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. He fixed them immediately. Page 2, it says, "In fact,

24 Mr. Leonard appears to have acted as a witness in

25 Mr. Nelson's lawsuit with Alamo." Well, Mr. Nelson


Page 126

1 never had a lawsuit with Alamo. He's best friends

2 with him. It says "Mr. Nelson is an old buddy of Mark

3 Leonard's." Never knew him at Tytan. He came at

4 Alamo's time when they owned Rhino. I never knew him

5 before.

6 Here's another untruth. Let's just keeping going

7 on these. You're --

8 Q. When you say "old buddy," where does it say?

9 A. "Mr. Nelson is an old buddy of Mark Leonard's at

10 Tytan."

11 MR. SIMPSON: Second line, Don.

12 BY MR. BOYD:

13 Q. And so that was as of 2010. When did you first get to

14 know Mr. Nelson?

15 MR. SIMPSON: This would be 2008, Don.

16 BY MR. BOYD:

17 Q. So you didn't know Mr. Nelson at this time at all?

18 Never met him?

19 A. I didn't know him until I started Tytan, but he --

20 see, he's using the time zone right here in the next

21 line. "In fact, Mr. Leonard appears to have acted as

22 a witness in Mr. Nelson's lawsuit with Alamo." Well,

23 I never even knew him when he was with Alamo. That's

24 all a bunch of untruths. This is all part of the word

25 deceptive.


Page 127

1 And another one here. That sentence goes from

2 one page to the other. "Within a year of so Alamo

3 Group dumped the Rhino company. Mark's buddy Tim, got

4 a big discount on the Rhino parts inventory. As I

5 understand the parts business for Rhino tractors

6 should be brisk. Now it is time for Mr. Nelson to

7 return a favor."

8 Anybody that knows that guy, he was an engineer

9 at Eastman Kodak with 162 engineers underneath him.

10 He is anything but what's been described here. Below

11 is a declaration --

12 MR. SIMPSON: No. No doubt this --

13 THE WITNESS: HUH? "No doubt this posting

14 will be an embarrassment for him." Yeah. He's just

15 trying to discredit the witnesses and make them get

16 scared. That's what this was all about.

17 And Alamo Group did not sell Rhino within a year.

18 BY MR. BOYD:

19 Q. How long was it?

20 A. Three and a half years. They did not sell it either

21 or dump it. They just dissolved their contracts

22 because they had a conflict with John Deere.

23 Q. So they --

24 A. John Deere took over those factories. They outfoxed

25 Alamo, bluffed them out of it.


Page 128

1 Q. So John Deere then started manufacturing Rhino

2 tractors?

3 A. Yes. They still do.

4 Q. Rhino tractors?

5 A. Same tractor under John Deere's name, obviously.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. Hard to believe, huh?

8 Q. So the Rhino company, though, was gone within three

9 years after purchase rather than one year?

10 A. That's right.


12 identification.)

13 BY MR. BOYD:

14 Q. This is 35.


16 BY MR. BOYD:


18 A. Yeah. This is one of Mitch's big deals on his

19 internet.

20 Q. And is there anything untrue in this document?

21 MR. SIMPSON: Don, we've already reviewed

22 this one.

23 MR. BOYD: I think Page 3 is different.

24 Page 3, 4.

25 MR. SIMPSON: May we then just address


Page 129

1 Page 3?

2 MR. BOYD: Yeah. I just want to make sure

3 we have the complete things so that...

4 THE WITNESS: Yeah. There's something

5 untrue. Here he is putting this in here saying he has

6 four failures on the steering bracket. He testified

7 that he had one.

8 BY MR. BOYD:

9 Q. Okay. Anything else?

10 A. Yeah, another one here. "In accordance with the US

11 Consumer Protection Act, TractorCo has issued a report

12 of potential Class A hazard." Well, the consumer

13 protection people ran their own engineers on the issue

14 and declared the products were -- more than met any

15 kind of quality needed to be in those things.

16 Q. Do you have their report?

17 A. No, I just got it verbal over the phone.

18 Q. From whom?

19 A. Tanya.

20 Q. Who's Tanya?

21 A. She's the lead gal that Mr. Bogden had sent the stuff

22 to.

23 MR. SIMPSON: You've got a letter to Tanya

24 in your exhibits, Don.

25 MR. BOYD: Okay.


Page 130

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. So you're saying that Mr. Bogden didn't have the right

3 to issue a report with regard to these tractors listed

4 here?

5 A. No, he didn't have a right to them.

6 Q. Didn't have a right to notify his customers with

7 regard to issues that he thought potentially were

8 safety --

9 A. It just shows that he doesn't know anything about the

10 tractors. If he knew about the guys breaking their

11 tie rod -- it never dawned on him that guys were --

12 that were bending their tie rods were shorting the

13 stroke of the cylinder and then fatiguing their tie

14 rod. That's the problem. Guys driving over stumps.

15 Q. Anything else that you think is false in this

16 document?

17 A. Yeah. And the other thing is it's not a Class A

18 hazard. The judge ruled on that.

19 MR. SIMPSON: Next sentence.

20 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Tytan issued an upgrade

21 part and --

22 MR. SIMPSON: No, no. Read it.

23 THE WITNESS: "Tytan has manufactured an

24 upgraded replacement part and issued it to the

25 consumers upon request."


Page 131

1 Wrong. Tytan never manufactured anything.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. Did it obtain a upgrade part?

4 A. We had a customer -- and he's got a declaration in

5 there -- that wanted to have a -- he wanted to make

6 his tie rod stronger and he wanted to make his

7 brackets stronger. And he did just that. And we told

8 him that we would go ahead and order them right out of

9 the factory so that they met all the factory

10 measurements and stuff.

11 Q. And did Tytan offer that to other customers, too, upon

12 request?

13 A. We did until we did the tests on the original

14 equipment at PSI and found out that they were more

15 than adequate.


17 identification.)

18 BY MR. BOYD:

19 Q. I'm handing you what's going to be marked as 36.

20 MR. SIMPSON: How is this different, Don?

21 THE WITNESS: I haven't finished answering

22 this thing. He submitted a complete table here of

23 Tytan failure issues here and the judge totally ruled

24 against him on all of that. And these items are just

25 totally not failure items, a lot of them. And keep in


Page 132

1 mind, when you issue a deal of all these failures,

2 don't you think when it's in the contract, that he

3 should support it with proving it with the actual

4 parts? We never have seen one part. Not one.

5 MR. SIMPSON: It's continuing to be

6 published knowing it's untrue.


8 MR. SIMPSON: Say it.

9 THE WITNESS: That was -- this stuff has

10 been continually put on the internet various ways.

11 BY MR. BOYD:

12 Q. So you're saying this has been out there on the

13 internet after the arbitration ruling?

14 A. Yeah. It's been spread around to people in talk

15 forums and all sorts of things.

16 MR. SIMPSON: Don, if you take a look, for

17 example, at your Number 33, that was printed on the

18 24th of February, 2013 -- oh, 2010.


20 identification.)

21 BY MR. BOYD:

22 Q. 37. Do you recognize that document?

23 A. Yes.


25 A. It looks like it's a deal to Investor's Hub where he's


Page 133

1 trying to say that there's a breach of commercial

2 security.

3 Q. Is that true?

4 A. On Exhibit 37 Susan Bond, who Mitch Bogden has

5 admitted is his alias, says, "I'm seriously

6 considering this stock as an investment, Tytan

7 Holdings, TYTN."

8 Q. Is that true?

9 A. That's true. I don't know the answer to breach of

10 commercial security. All it was is the bank was going

11 downhill and they wanted to call their loans in to get

12 as much cash raised as they could. So they didn't

13 renew anybody. So they tried to foreclose on us.

14 Q. And that lawsuit had been filed as of that time?

15 A. Well, no. This is untrue as well. The only thing

16 that was -- that was foreclosed on was Mark Leonard,

17 not Tytan. Tytan still has no foreclosure on it. It

18 has not been foreclosed on.

19 Q. Why had the lawsuit been started?

20 A. Lawsuit was started the day before Cowlitz Bank went

21 down to foreclose.

22 MR. SIMPSON: Against whom?

23 THE WITNESS: Against Tytan International

24 then.

25 MR. SIMPSON: You got two Tytans. Make


Page 134

1 certain you're talking about the right one.

2 BY MR. BOYD:

3 Q. Tytan Holdings, what other substantial assets does it

4 own other than Tytan International?

5 A. I told you earlier I'll get you all the paper

6 documentation. You'll have it more accurate than I

7 can give it to you.

8 Q. Off the top of your head, how much does Tytan

9 International comprise of Tytan Holdings?

10 A. A high percentage.

11 Q. The date here on the top, it says, apparently, Friday,

12 September 10, 2010. Do you see that?

13 A. Yeah.

14 Q. As far as you know, that that was the date this was

15 posted?

16 A. Probably.

17 Q. Do you know of any other prior postings by Susan Bond,

18 double-oh 7 with regard to Tytan?

19 A. Only about a thousand of them.

20 Q. Prior to this date?

21 A. Prior to that date? I'm not sure exactly prior to

22 that date.

23 Q. Do you know what the stock value of Tytan was as of

24 that date?

25 MR. SIMPSON: Which one?


Page 135

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. My own -- my understanding -- is there a difference?

3 Is Tytan International publically traded?

4 A. Tytan Holdings is publically traded.

5 Q. And Tytan International is solely owned by Tytan

6 Holdings?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. So the Tytan International stock value, do you know

9 what that value was as of that date?

10 A. I don't have that kind of memory. You can research

11 it.

12 MR. BOYD: We'll take a break for just a few

13 minutes, and then try to get it wrapped up.



16 identification.)

17 BY MR. BOYD:

18 Q. The next is 38. Do you recognize this document?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Do you know who prepared this document?

21 A. Yeah, I think I did. Me and Sean did.

22 Q. Who's Sean?

23 A. A stock guy that we had. Where did this come from? I

24 don't see a court document on it. Was this out of the

25 case or something?


Page 136

1 Q. I think this is something that Mr. Simpson has

2 provided us in discovery.

3 A. I don't think so.

4 MR. SIMPSON: I don't think so.

5 MR. BOYD: It was part of -- yeah.

6 THE WITNESS: He didn't supply this.

7 MR. SIMPSON: It's the first time I've seen

8 it, Don.

9 THE WITNESS: He didn't supply it and it

10 wasn't in the court case.

11 BY MR. BOYD:

12 Q. So you and Sean prepared this. What does this

13 document show?

14 A. Huh?

15 Q. What does -- what's this graph here? The spiky graph,

16 is that -- is that the actual stock price of Tytan

17 International? The one --

18 A. It's just jumping from the peaks to the peaks.

19 MR. SIMPSON: What company is it?

20 THE WITNESS: Tytan.

21 BY MR. BOYD:

22 Q. Tytan International?


24 Q. Holdings. Okay. And as far as you know, this is a

25 correct reflection of the stock price of Tytan


Page 137

1 Holdings during this period of time shown down on the

2 graph, from 2009 through apparently October --

3 mid-October -- November 22, 2010, apparently is the

4 last date?

5 A. Well, that's what it is, a print off off the internet.

6 Q. Okay. As far as you know, that's a true and correct

7 stock prices on that graph?

8 A. Yeah. I don't know, you know, how accurate -- I mean,

9 you can't get real accurate with it, but you can get

10 somewhat accurate.

11 Q. But within the range that it shows here on the

12 right-hand side, from $.002 to $.009? It's, as far as

13 you can tell, relatively accurate?

14 A. Uh-huh.

15 Q. Thank you. Do you know a guy named Gabriel Garten?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. Who is Mr. Garten?

18 A. He was a fellow that bought a 50-horsepower tractor

19 from us initially, and very happy with it. Put it on

20 the internet, put it all over the stock places, and

21 then he decided he wanted to -- after about a year or

22 so, he wanted a 85 horse.

23 Q. Okay. And that's what he's got now?

24 A. Uh-huh.

25 Q. Is he a member of your board?


Page 138

1 A. No.

2 Q. Is he a stockholder of Tytan?

3 A. I don't know.

4 Q. Was he ever a member of the board?

5 A. We had him as a consultant, you know, because he was

6 out using the tractor and had some good input.

7 Q. So you don't know whether he's a stockholder or not?

8 A. Don't have any idea.

9 MR. SIMPSON: Of Tytan Holdings?

10 MR. BOYD: Of Tytan Holdings, Inc., yeah.

11 BY MR. BOYD:

12 Q. Do you ever talk to Mr. Garten about buying stock in

13 the company of Tytan Holdings?

14 A. I don't discuss stock with people. I only talk

15 product.

16 Q. Do you know if Mr. Garten has posted any things about

17 Tytan Holdings on the web, on the internet?

18 A. I don't look on the internet.

19 MR. BOYD: I think at this point I don't

20 have anything more. There may be some questions that

21 come up with regard to the documents that we talked

22 about.

23 MR. SIMPSON: Thanks.

24 Would you mark that?



Page 139

1 identification.)

2 EXAMINATION

3 BY MR. SIMPSON:

4 Q. Mark, I've got just a few clarifications for you.

5 What's been marked as Number 6, that was

6 submitted for the arbitration proceeding, wasn't it?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. As well as all of these exhibits that are marked with

9 TCO-00 and then a number? Those were all in the

10 arbitration proceeding?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You, at one point in trying to respond to Don --

13 Mr. Boyd, indicated -- you indicated that OTC may be a

14 government agency?

15 A. Well, it's regulated at least by the government.

16 Q. It's real name Pink OTC, Inc.?

17 A. Pink sheets?

18 Q. No.

19 A. It's OTC pink sheets. That's how you get it most of

20 the time.

21 Q. Bear with me. I'm trying to find Number 5. This was

22 marked as Number 5, was a revised annual report. And

23 on Page 15 to that, there's something called an

24 extraordinary item?

25 A. Yes.


Page 140

1 Q. What is that?

2 A. That's the arbitration judgment that Judge Peterson

3 awarded from TractorCo, Mitch Bogden.

4 Q. So that's just -- would that be one of the reasons you

5 would have revised this, is to add the arbitration

6 award on this?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Let me show you Number 28. At the top it's a letter

9 from you to Mr. Bogden, and then on the bottom -- or

10 the next page, it has Mr. Bogden's response to you; is

11 that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Would you please read the first sentence of that.

14 A. "I have hit -- set this issue on the back burner as I

15 have been too busy to deal with it and the snow on the

16 passes has been unrelenting. I have asked you before,

17 however, and still need a definitive answer. I would

18 like to confirm that when I bring the two 334

19 tractors, I can return them with two replacements."

20 Q. Thank you. In that e-mail, do you indicate that it

21 was Mitch's at least intent, that he was going to go

22 over and deliver the tractors to -- to your company

23 over in western Washington?

24 A. It says that he was going to bring them back to us.

25 Q. Right. So he was going to be traveling over the pass?


Page 141

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And why couldn't he travel over the pass?

3 A. Because the snow was unrelenting.

4 Q. Next we're going to turn to Exhibit Number 34. I'm

5 actually going to go to Number 29. No.

6 I'm handing you what's been marked as Number 37.

7 This is the Susan Bond posting on the --

8 A. September 10th, 2010?

9 Q. On -- what's the website that's on?

10 A. It's on Investor's Hub.

11 Q. What stock is it referring to?

12 A. TYTN, which is Tytan Holdings.

13 Q. And the second line, the paragraph -- well, let's go

14 to the first line. Would you read -- just read the

15 whole thing.

16 A. "Tytan foreclosure. I'm seriously considering this

17 stock as an investment." This is from Susan Bond,

18 double-oh 7, Mitch Bogden. "Seems like there's a lot

19 of confidence in this company. I do, however, like to

20 do my homework. I did a search on Tytan in the

21 courts. I was surprised to drag up this listing."

22 Q. Would you read that?

23 A. "Court. Cowlitz Superior Court, Case Number

24 10-2-01361-1. Foreclosure, breach of commercial

25 security. It appears to be the main commercial loan


Page 142

1 indicated in the second quarter report for around

2 700,000. Does anyone know more about this? Am I

3 mistaken here?"

4 Q. Was that a lawsuit against Tytan Holdings?

5 A. No, it was not.

6 Q. What's the subject matter of this post?

7 A. It's -- was a lawsuit against the guarantor --

8 Q. No, no.

9 A. Oh, it's the --

10 Q. What company is he dealing with?

11 A. This is Investor's Hub.

12 Q. But what company is she talking about?

13 A. TYTN.

14 Q. Which is?

15 A. Which is Tytan Holdings.

16 Q. Was Tytan Holdings being sued?

17 A. No.

18 Q. By anyone?

19 A. No.

20 Q. So is that statement, when it was published, true?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Thank you.

23 MR. SIMPSON: That's it.

24 MR. BOYD: Got one last question.

25 CONTINUED EXAMINATION


Page 143

1 BY MR. BOYD:

2 Q. Going back to the Exhibit 37. Did Tytan Holdings,

3 Inc., make references in its OTC filings about the

4 Cowlitz Bank loan?

5 A. It made reference to the loan, yes.

6 Q. And that was in Tytan Holdings, Inc., reportings that

7 were filed with the OTC?

8 A. Yes.

9 MR. BOYD: Thank you. That's all I've got.

10 MR. SIMPSON: Thank you.

11 (Deposition concluded at 1:30 p.m.)

12 (Signature reserved.)

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Page 144

1 CERTIFICATE OF SIGNATURE

2Deposition of MARK LEONARD

3 February 28, 2013In re: Bogden, Leonard vs. Bogden

4 Case No. 11-00883FLK7ADV NO. 11-80075-FLK

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23 I have read the original or a copy of theabove-described transcript and my answers contained therein

24 are correct with the above-noted changes.

25 SIGNATURE OF DEPONENT DATE OF SIGNATURE


Page 145

1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

3 STATE OF WASHINGTON) ) ss.

4 COUNTY OF YAKIMA )

5 THIS IS TO CERTIFY that I, JORI MOORE, Certified

6 Court Reporter in and for the State of Washington residing

7 at Yakima, reported the within and foregoing deposition;

8 said deposition being taken before me as a Notary Public on

9 the date herein set forth; that the deponent was first by

10 me duly sworn; that said examination was taken by me in

11 shorthand and thereafter under my supervision transcribed,

12 and that same is a full, true and correct record of the

13 testimony of said deponent, including all questions,

14 answers and objections, if any, of counsel.

15 Further certify that I am not a relative or

16 employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties, nor

17 am I financially interested in the outcome of the cause.

18 IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand

19 and affixed my official seal this day of ,

20 2013.

21

22 CERT/LIC NO. Notary Public in and for the State

23 of Washington, residing at Yakima

24

25